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Nov. 23, 2020 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
01:05:37
(More) Laura Perrins
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I know I always say this, but I'm really excited about this week's special guest.
She's back after only a very short gap and there's nothing wrong with that.
It's Laura Perrins.
And I know I always say this, but I'm really excited about this, this week's special guest.
She's back after only a very short gap and there's nothing wrong with that.
It's Laura Perrins.
Laura, I think this is going to be a kind of self-help group for all of us who, I don't know about you, but every morning I wake up with an acid stomach.
I've been getting acid reflux recently for the last month or so.
And it could be, I suppose, incipient stomach cancer or It could be Helicobacter pylori.
But I've got a suspicion.
It's just that we are living through the most terrible times.
I mean, I look at the papers aghast at what's happening to our country, to our culture, to our economy, to our way of life.
Do you share my feeling?
Well, I mean, there are definitely very bad days.
Today is one of those days.
Definitely a therapy session for me.
No, I mean, things are bad, although one must not despair because that's what they do.
They should traditionally despair and you should not.
But things are coming up to Christmas now.
I think we were saying earlier, you know, how they're starting the fear mongering and scaremongering over Christmas at the moment is making me quite Angry.
This is evil, what they do.
We should talk in moral terms, not, you know, oh, the numbers and is it justified?
No.
I mean, they're scaremongering.
They're telling grandparents if they open their presents, you know, if they drop around a Christmas present to their grandkid on Christmas Day, then, you know, you're going to be buried in January.
That's what a guy on GMB said today.
GMB this morning.
It's disgraceful.
You're referring to a programme I never watch for obvious reasons because I don't want that stomach acid being accelerated.
But Good Morning Britain, the evil lair of of Piers Morgan and that TV doctor that constantly promulgates the... Well, he's not the worst.
It's when they get on the doctors from Independent Sage, they're the real, they're the doom-mongers.
Independent Sage?
You mean the ultra-left wing?
Yeah, the Taliban.
Yeah, the Taliban sage.
So the ayatollahs are the government sage, independent sage are essentially the Taliban.
That is amazing that they're using independent sage, which is which is purely an ad hoc political group.
A lot of them are behavioural scientists rather than epidemiologists or virologists.
And this is one of the things I've noticed that, for example, the other day, it was Susan Mickey.
who was appearing on TV explaining why we can't have Christmas.
Now, Susan Mickey is a communist.
She's a member of the Communist Party.
She's that marvellous thing.
I mean, she's more than a champagne socialist.
She's a sort of a high-end Krug socialist.
She actually is worth millions.
And yet she's also a complete commie.
This woman is telling us we can't have Christmas because made up reasons, because it's not about medicine, is it?
It's not about medical science.
It's about control.
That much is obvious now.
It's about power and control.
And, you know, I sometimes self-examine.
Do I say to myself, well, you know, maybe, Laura, you're wrong, but maybe it is kind of risky.
But as I said, what they're doing is so disproportionate and so hysterical.
You know, they're just trolling people now.
And it's fine for you and me, as you said, who don't deal in this mainstream media.
And I have these conversations with people on Twitter when they tell me, oh, don't worry about Piers Morgan, you know, just don't give him any oxygen.
I'm like, the guy is beamed into people's millions.
And millions of our brothers and sisters homes every morning where there's kids eating their cornflakes and you have these people on their telly going, you can't have Christmas, or if you do have Christmas, we're going to lock you down for 25 days.
If there's one thing people do after watching this podcast, Just turn off, turn off GMB at least in the telly.
Really, you should turn it all off in the mornings.
But in particular, turn that programme off.
This is propaganda.
This is hysterical propaganda.
Do not let your families listen to it.
If you want to be very cautious yourselves, as I said, that is absolutely fine.
But never mind shielding your family from the virus.
Shield your family from the hysterical, over-the-top media coverage of this.
It's disgraceful.
I totally agree with that, Laura, except I'd go further and say disconnect yourself completely from the mainstream media.
Don't watch anything.
Don't listen to BBC radio in the car, not even Radio 3.
No.
I mean, just don't.
You'll feel so much better.
Listen to an audiobook.
Much better for the soul.
We've been listening to Fantastic Mr Fox on the way to school and it is very good.
It's very nice.
I love Fantastic Mr Fox.
It's one of my one of my favourite, favourite Roald Dahl stories.
Even though it's slightly anti-hunting, but I can forgive it that because it's a great yarn.
But don't just switch off the BBC radio.
My view is that you shouldn't watch any BBC TV programmes.
Definitely don't watch BBC News.
And actually, I'm afraid to say it, don't read not even conservative newspapers.
I was reading the Telegraph this morning.
And I often read the business pages because they seem to be slightly less tainted by the kind of social justice warrior nonsense that you get in the main paper.
And you get a piece by Ambrose Evans Pritchard, who supposedly knows something about economics, and he's singing the praises of this kind of electric cars by 2030.
Mads This green industrial revolution, which is actually just a version of, as I'm sure you know, the Great Reset.
This thing underpinning all this crazy policy.
Yes, and I mean, a lot of people are going to make a lot of money.
As we know, a lot of people have already made a lot of money out of the Covid scam from Steve.
A lot of well-placed Tory chumocracies.
They couldn't even kill that story.
That's my dog.
And then, yeah, there's going to be even more vested interests, you know, plunging taxpayers' money over this green revolution.
But, I mean, it's true.
Try and stay away from the mainstream media because myself and James, I mean, we'll watch it on your behalf.
I'm telling you, they're kind of hysteria.
I'm going to change rooms now.
That's out there.
I like this.
This is an added tour.
Can I say, Laura, how lovely and shiny your lips are looking today with your lipstick on.
I was told off by my co-editor for not making the effort on the last one.
Oh!
I said, well, kind of.
In fact, she said it was almost better.
Anyway, it's fine.
People concentrated on your points rather than your lovely hair and makeup.
Yeah.
I don't bother.
Yes, well, you don't need to.
But no, I think, as I said, it's only mid-November now and the hysteria, I mean, they're really cranking it up now.
People should have their own Christmas and do what they feel is necessary and reasonable within their own terms and just ignore the kind of nonsense that's coming out of government.
And of course, another disgraceful thing, as you've already touched on, is how conveniently Boris has just gone to ground.
For 14 days!
And he's going to let all his ministers and everybody else leak, right?
They're going to torture us and torment us with leak after leak over, maybe you'll get five days, maybe you'll get four days, but you're going to lose all of January while he's just, what, sitting in Downing Street watching The Crown or something and letting Carrie run the show.
Yes, I know.
I know.
And have you noticed something else?
This is one of the things that's really bothered me recently.
This increasing media narrative that somehow Christmas is something in the government's gift.
Yes.
That we should be grateful if we're allowed five days.
And if we do get those five days, then we must realise that there are consequences with the price we must pay.
Yes.
We must isolate more either side of Christmas.
Otherwise, otherwise what?
We know anyone who's vaguely informed, anyone who doesn't read the mainstream media, basically, knows that coronavirus has been and gone.
It peaked in April.
We're getting the tail end now, but it's not a second wave.
And yet, we've got the entirety of the mainstream media and the government propaganda machine telling us that this is still a clear and present threat, and that we must be prepared to lose Christmas because it's that bad.
I mean, The only clear and present threat to this country is the Covid hysteria and Boris Johnson and most of the people at GMB.
They're my current, you know, and the ayatollahs of SAGE and the Taliban and Independent SAGE.
These are a real threat to our way of life, to people's livelihoods, to the mental health of children and 20-something-year-olds.
What's happening to that cohort of people is just disgraceful.
And another thing that I noticed with the powers that be at mainstream media is this new line of, oh well all the other main religions, they all lost their festivals, So what's the big deal with Christmas?
You know, why should the Christians get preferential treatment?
To which there's two points.
Number one, everybody marks Christmas, right?
They're always telling us how, oh, the Muslims, they love, you know, having a Christmas.
How very dare you imply that they don't?
If you live in Britain, Everybody uses it as at least an occasion to spend time together, right?
Yes, those who aren't Christian might work a little bit more here and there, you know, ferrying us around to our various Christmas parties, as I talked to my Uber drivers last Christmas.
But everybody marks it with extra time with the family.
And now, so that's the first.
And number two is, you already cancelled Easter, you atheist, demonic nutbags.
You know, you seem to have forgotten about the fact that we were locked out of our churches on Easter Sunday, on Good Friday, for all of Holy Thursday.
That's actually arguably the bigger festival in the Christian calendar, but supposedly that doesn't count anymore.
We're just forgetting about that.
But I think, Laura, that the church has been complicit in this.
I mean, look, any church headed by Justin Welby is bound to be is bound to cave.
I mean, he's much more interested in Gaia worship than worshipping God.
And I'm afraid to say the same applies to the head of your religion.
I mean, the Pope has been absolutely worse than useless.
Yeah, he's particularly poor.
At this current lockdown, Cardinal Nicholls at least said, listen, I think the church is to stay open to mass.
They were duly ignored.
But all of the churches now, including the head of the Catholic Church in Britain, should now be saying, we will open on Christmas Day.
We will open on Christmas Day.
And if you want to send around the heavies to close the churches on Christmas Day and we'll socially distance and all the rest of it, you go and do that, Boris.
But our churches will be open.
We will say mass in the car parks if we have to.
But I am saying mass on Christmas Day.
All the parish priests should be saying mass on Christmas Day, like to the public.
And if they want to go and close the churches on Christmas Day, let Boris do it.
I mean, I'm more hardcore than you, Laura.
I think there should be no social distancing in church on Christmas Day.
I think we should all be happily taking communion from the same cup, as is traditional.
I think it's just... I think when we play the game where we wear masks, or when we socially distance, or when we do this ridiculous Greeting this elbow bump, which I don't do.
I mean, I have I'll be honest.
I've been ignoring the lockdown completely and and I'm It's interesting you you meet some people who pay lip service to the nonsense whether with masks or with the elbow elbow bump and other people who just want to carry on as normal and I want the whole of our normal life back and I see no reason why we shouldn't.
You know that phrase we find on people's Twitter posts, why are they doing this?
The reason people are asking that question is not because it's It's not because they believe that there is a any kind of viral threat that we should take seriously.
It's because they know that there is some sinister ulterior motive behind all this.
It's got we've got far too far down the road for it to be anything other than planned.
And it's very ugly.
I think the Defence Minister was on today going, you know, oh, we'll decide at the beginning.
Do you notice how nobody's talking about just lifting the lockdown on the 2nd of December?
I know.
She isn't even on the airwaves.
It's all about how stringent, as you said, what will they allow us to have for Christmas?
So we're going to have this mission creep of sliding past the 2nd of December probably all the way to maybe the 20th of December and it's like, what bone will you throw us?
You know, what will we be allowed to do on Christmas Day?
And the media in particular push this narrative with This is the choice given to, I'm concentrating on ITV and GMB at the moment just because I was on the Twitter feed.
So their choice in the poll is, they give you a poll, is it worth having Christmas for a 25 day lockdown in January?
So that's your choice.
I love it.
As opposed to, no, you know what I'm going to do?
I'm going to have Christmas and I'm not locking down in January.
How about that?
That's what I'm doing.
As much as I can legally, you know, if they've closed the restaurant, I can't break into a restaurant.
But, you know, as much as I possibly can, that's the deal I'm taking.
Do you know what I almost said and actually had to stop myself doing?
I actually, I have never been a fan of New Year's Eve parties.
I've always found them a bit strange.
By saying that, I'm just like one of those ghastly lifestyle columnists who've been endorsing the government narrative with these soft pieces like, oh, says the commissioning editor, we've got too many pieces grumbling about the miseries of coronavirus and the lockdown.
Let's commission a piece from one of our Usually one of our female commentators saying, well, you know, it may be a bit of a problem being locked down by the government and kept under house arrest.
But let's look at the upside.
I'm catching up on my, you know, I'm going to bed earlier and I'm getting to know my children.
All this, all this stuff where suddenly it gets normalised.
And I think we should fight that.
Yeah, yeah.
No, the Times did a two-pager, T2 did a two-page run.
Should you match your face mask to your outfits?
No, no.
Why don't you take your face mask off and put on the bin?
Why don't we do that?
That's why I gave Dan Hannan.
I mean, I don't know why.
I think one of the reasons I focus on Dan, Dan Hannan, he's a good friend of mine and I love him very much.
There's something sort of charmingly He is he's comfortable in his skin and he's very articulate.
He has so many good qualities, but he kind of sells the pass on on the subject of what's going on.
There was he posted a few months ago.
I gave him a hard time about this.
He posted a picture of himself wearing his Garret Club patterned face mask.
And I'm thinking, no, it's not a Jolly Jape.
This is the government is muzzling us and you cannot say, oh, I'm wearing my Garret Club.
My school, there's an old Malvernian mask.
Well, fuck off, Malvern.
I don't want you doing this.
It's not clever.
It's not Yeah, then you're only debating on their terms, right?
You've already surrendered to the idea, which we now know from the Danish study that they tried to bury, that masks are completely, completely useless.
You know, there's no measurable difference.
Yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
And there, you know, as I said, you're just Part of what I would call a demonic plan to dehumanize us, to make humans seem, you know, the enemy.
You know, you're a vector.
You're not a human being anymore.
You're a vector.
And your grandkid could, you know, spread this deadly virus if they give you a mince pie.
And, you know, let's all wear masks to mass.
And oh, if I even have a conversation with somebody, I did another blog, I have nothing scarier than having a conversation with someone wearing a mask.
This is the kind of line, you know, they're pushing.
You know, there's nothing scary.
Do you know who wears masks?
Rapists and the Taliban and members of the IRA when they're doing their military funerals.
They were the people who used to wear masks.
Normal people don't need to wear masks.
But they're just pushing this whole, you know, as I said, to just ordinary everyday people who just want to have an ordinary Christmas, get the argument in with your annoying mother-in-law, you know, be able to complain about having to cook the turkey.
We need that back.
And people need to fight for that.
And if they blackmail you and emotionally terrorise you into believing, because this is all the line all over Twitter at the moment, that you're selfish if you want to have a family Christmas.
You're the problem.
No, no, they're the problem.
Who is saying that, Laura?
Are people saying this on Twitter?
Yeah, so Family Christmas was trending yesterday.
And if you if you click on it, it's the usual lefties going.
And it's also sanctimonious, you know, like, oh, no, I'm willing to sacrifice my Christmas because I don't want to kill Aunt Nora.
Fine, sacrifice your Christmas, but you don't get to sacrifice mine.
And again, Piers Morgan, I don't know why everybody just wants to gorge on turkey.
You know, you need to be selfless about that.
You're the most selfish person going.
You know, all these media outlets are making, I have no doubt, huge profits From peddling other people's, you know, from terrifying other people and making people wallow in misery at the idea that you're not going to have a normal Christmas.
As I said before, if you if they are making you fear your grandchildren, you know, fear your your elderly aunt, you may have to have Christmas on their own.
Normal, if they are making you terrified of ordinary human interaction, this is evil.
This is demonic.
This is the work of darker forces.
So Laura, there are, by the way, I totally agree with you that I think that this is the ultimate struggle between good and evil in our lifetime.
This is at least our World War Two.
I found myself becoming much, much closer to God in this, in as much as, you know, I've always gone to church occasionally.
But I really do feel like in times like this, you need to cleave to a higher force and draw strength from a higher force.
And it doesn't mean I'm going to start going to church more, not least because Frankly, the Church of England headed by Justin Welby, as I said, is a bit wet.
I think it's dodged its actual purpose.
It's got distracted by all sorts of things.
I think the church is part of the problem, the established church anyway.
But I'm so disappointed, I think we talked about this last time, by how few of us are fighting back.
I mean, I think a lot of people are fighting back.
And I think that's one of the reasons why it is good to do these things.
I mean, you know, we're not alone.
Yeah, we'd all rather probably be out doing other things.
But, you know, I'm sure it happens a few people get in touch with you and say, yeah, I'm just I'm just so glad you said it.
You know, you've been thinking this.
But I'm too afraid to say it.
And finally, you know, hearing somebody else say it, it means, you know, I'm not going mad.
Because remember, they're getting a constant fee, as I said, of being gaslighted.
You're selfish.
You're unhinged.
You believe in conspiracy theories.
These are all lies.
You are being lied to all the time by the mainstream media.
The idea that this is a massive threat to everybody when it simply is not the case.
Way, way, way back when, when they were doing their ridiculous press conferences in the first lockdown, even, you know, the group from Tucson were saying most people will be fine from this virus.
So why the panic then?
Why?
Why are you peddling in this misery, you know, this dark threat around the corner all the time?
The only threat to our way of life is the hysterical media, the Ayatollah Fadge and Boris Johnson.
They are the greatest threat right now.
Not COVID.
COVID might be a bit of a threat to some people with comorbidities, etc.
But it is minuscule.
Oh, my dog wants in as well.
Minuscule in the grand scheme of things.
And you should fight it, but you should also live your life, you know, as much as you can.
Be supportive to people who might be turning, you know, mightn't be as strong in their views as we are, but who deep down think that this is, this is just, this is not on.
This has gone on for long enough.
Remember, what was it?
Three weeks to flatten the curve.
Yes, I know.
That's the thing.
The mission trip has been extraordinary.
And I think people have already forgotten.
They've already forgotten that we spent most of the summer.
Yeah.
To wear masks.
And I think that the chart that everyone is the virus doing it's, it's Gompertz curve.
I mean, the characteristic curve of all respiratory viral infections.
You know, there's nothing different about coronavirus, nothing special about it.
And you can see that when the curve is almost completely flattened out, that is the point where suddenly compulsory masks are introduced.
And already our cultural amnesia is such that you go into supermarkets now, And I mean, I'm, I really am always the only person not wearing a mask.
I thought I thought the resistance would grow, but it's actually people have got more wary of going out maskless.
And so you've got you've got the curve, which ought to be ought to show to anyone with eyes to see that masks are pointless.
Then you've got the Danish study, which you mentioned the one that shows that the one was published yesterday, and shows that masks have no effect But I can guarantee that when I go to Waitrose tomorrow, no one will have changed their minds.
They'll all still be wearing the mask.
And when you see policemen, they're all wearing those bloody masks.
And that's frightening in itself.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, people become very invested in it.
You know, this is their crutch.
But as we spoke about the last time, you know, they've been very clever in their manipulation because they've always said from the beginning, under the mask, it's not so much to protect you, it's to protect others.
Right.
So again, this comes back to if you don't go along with us, you know, you can be reckless with your own life.
But if you don't go along with all of our dictates, you are putting other people at risk.
You are you are putting your granny at risk.
You know, you're just being selfish.
And they can justify anything on people will die.
Because remember, when we had the Brexit debate, we were told if we have this deal or that deal, people will die.
Same thing with transgenderism.
If you don't go along the out and out line that people can change, not just their gender, but their biological sex, people will die.
What is it?
Words, language.
This is a threat to my safety.
Okay, so this has been a long term, a long time coming, and that free expression is freedom of speech.
Oh, that's a threat to people's safety.
And if you if you doubt the government's line, although now you're putting other people at risk.
And, you know, if you don't wear a mask, oh, you're also a threat to say everything is either people will die, or you're just an out now threat, which ample health, which is why we get Nasty looks, you know why I had that encounter with a man on the train who?
Tried to pick a fight with me for not wearing a mask because we have been they have weaponized people's people's virtue signaling and they have they have weaponized this this sense that anyone who doesn't go along with the government's Dictats must therefore be a granny killer.
So it's incredibly socially divisive.
So which almost answers my earlier question about why more people aren't resisting.
There has been that manipulation.
But also another thing I wanted to talk to you about.
I was looking at Twitter today and I saw that Fraser Nelson, editor of The Spectator, tweeting out an article by one of his lefty writers, Sam Leith, the nephew of TV star Prue Leith, old Etonian Sam Leith.
And Sam has written a piece arguing for effectively a compulsory vaccine.
He sort of has his cake and eat it.
He eats it.
He denies that he wants people to be forced to take the vaccine, but at the same time, he thinks it's really not unreasonable that if they want to take a taxi or go to the pub or go to work, that people should have a vaccine certificate.
Well, if that ain't compulsory, I'm not sure what is.
And what bothers me about this is that this fascistic, I mean, there's no other way of describing it, a really evil anti-freedom line is being being promulgated by the House Journal of Conservatism in the UK.
The magazine that sort of represents those of us who believe in free speech and so on and prides itself on its fearlessness is yet advancing something like something that belongs in Nazi Germany.
In terms of the vaccine, you know, they're not going to actually physically sort of tie you to the gurney and inject you with the vaccine.
They can't do that.
But they will, as you say, to be compulsory, they will try and make it as difficult as possible for you.
Yeah, you can't fly.
Or another one that I saw on Twitter as well was the we're going to deny you treatment on the NHS.
This is another thing they like, you know, because we're going to deny you access to state services.
So I say, all right, OK, so if somebody, say you have a mother who is in a difficult labour and she needs a blood transfusion but hasn't had the vaccine, you're just going to leave her to die then?
And it would serve her right, James.
Yeah, oh, totally.
Selfish.
Yeah, she needs an emergency arrest.
Well, you didn't get the vaccine, so it served you right.
Or again, or say there's a pile up on the M1, right?
And the paramedics, what they'd have to do then under this great scheme, no NHS treatment, no vaccine, no treatment, right?
You could kind of go along to each half dying body and check their papers.
And those that haven't had the vaccine don't have their cards.
They can just choke on their own blood and it would serve them right too.
So this is basically papers, please.
Now we had this from the behavioural, the Nudge unit, not creepy at all, the behavioural insight team at Downing Street, right?
That if you tested negative, you could have your white bands.
So that would allow you access to different services.
Right, have you seen this proposed?
This was all over the news.
It seems to be arse over tit to me.
I mean, early on, I could see a perfectly reasonable case for people who've had the virus to be given some kind of, I don't know, a rainbow thing to show that they're not infectious anymore.
No, no, no, no.
But this is a bad idea, OK?
Because what the Behavioural Unit have proposed, right, and I think they did in Slovakia, so if you test negative or whatever it might be, say at this stage it's going to be if you have the vaccine, right, you get your badge or you get your pass, OK, your pass, Yes.
You can be released from the restrictions.
So then they look really generous because they have given you something back.
But do you understand that is fascism, because they have made the default position there that you don't have any liberty unless you have a pass.
So if you don't have a vaccine, Oh, so they flipped.
No, the norm is that we can do whatever the hell we want, right?
Other than whatever is banned by the criminal law.
But now because they've made the norm, you're locked down.
It can be, oh, if you get the vaccine, then we'll give you your pass.
Yeah, I mean, in South Africa, black people had to have papers.
Papers, please.
And if you don't get the vaccine, maybe you should wear a little badge, maybe a little star.
No, just on that, on the point about about immunity, T cell immunity, about having, once you've, look, it is a simple fact.
It's known to virologists everywhere around the world that just a lot of them are lying about it.
It's just, virology 101, that if you have been exposed to the virus, if you've had a bout of coronavirus, Two things happen.
First of all, in the early stages, your B cells go into overdrive, your sort of white blood cells.
This is part of your immune system.
They come in and they, provided you don't die, they overcome this virus.
And then what happens is that the B cells kind of disappear, which is why it's quite hard to measure not long after you've had the coronavirus.
This gives the corona fascists the chance to say, well, look, you don't develop immunity, it vanishes after a while, but that's entirely normal.
You don't want your B cells working over time.
What then happens is that you get T cell immunity.
Your T cells are ready to zap it next time it comes along.
What's extraordinary is that, and I think this shows the sort of anti-science, like it's a bit like the left-wing view of the world anyway, it's all about the narrative, never about the facts, never about logic or reality.
What they've done is effectively denied medical truth and they've effectively created this world where, like we're looking at Boris now, Boris has very publicly had a terrible battle which he survived with coronavirus and yet he is self-isolating He could easily transmit it again, which is just nonsense.
I mean, okay, there's been about five cases around the world by, you know, if we are to believe that, but generally, you do get immunity.
And yet, culturally, we're denying this.
Our media is denying this.
It's pretending like you don't get immunity.
Well, because it gives them license to extend this thing, right?
For as long as they want, for as long as it's useful to keep the population terrified.
You know, oh, even if you've had it, you might get it again, which means again, you might infect other people.
You know, they'll tell you, they'll tell you whatever they want.
You know, as I said, there are people wearing masks.
In cars on their own.
Like this is how this is how crazy it's gone.
This is how terrified people people have become.
But it is always a means of control.
It's just a means of control and power.
And as I said, they want to make the new normal and default positions and status quos are really important because they're things you take for granted, right?
There are things that you haven't thought about that you just take for granted, like I'm going to go to the pub on Christmas Eve.
That's just taken for granted.
But now, now it'll be, oh, it's in our gift.
Maybe we'll let you.
Maybe we won't let you.
Right.
So they're switching everything.
They're turning all natural order, what I would call natural order, on its head.
You know, that desire to be with your family and that desire to go to the pub.
All these normal human desires are now suddenly abnormal and justify to me why we should let you, why we should allow you do that.
So this new normal, there's nothing normal about it, folks, and you should reject it in every small way that you can.
You know, people say, well, what can we do?
Well, just, you know, go around to your friend's house and don't wear a mask and try and make plans as much as you can.
Turn off the TV, turn off the radio, and if you can possibly help it, don't even talk about it that much.
I mean, people do, but I even try and stop myself because You know, obviously you can, you can do this and then you feel like you've inoculated with yourself, right, at least for another day.
Trying to flip norms of behaviour all the time, all the time.
You know, that thing I said at the beginning about this, the stomach acid experience, and I know it's not just me, I know lots of other people are having the same experience.
Every day, I think, It can't get any worse.
They can't deny reality so flagrantly.
And every day they do it without shame.
Matt Hancock is, I suppose, the worst example of this.
But they're all at it.
Boris is at it.
The SAGE committee people are at it.
And I really feel like we're not going to get our freedoms back.
The police are getting more draconian.
We see no sign that the government is going to shift its its its policy, which seems to be geared towards this this great reset that is advocating.
And also, it takes a different form from the UN's agenda 2030.
But we seem to be having this kind of globalist technocratic takeover.
And all the governments of the world pretty much signed up to this nonsense.
Regardless of what the electorates think about this, I don't think the electorates want a great reset at all.
They don't want electric cars by 2030 either.
They're very worried about this.
But it seems that we have no ability to, no democratic say, no ability to control what our government's doing.
It's been hijacked by a small cabal at the top and the parliamentarians aren't much to oppose it.
What do we do?
I mean, this is a terrible takeover.
Well, I just, unfortunately, it hasn't really kind of kicked in.
It hasn't really affected people's ordinary lives to such a degree that they're willing to organise in a professional way.
You know, so, I mean, obviously, the children still being at school is a big thing.
I mean, I'm stuck in lots of traffic jams.
Again, they give you just enough, right?
Just enough.
to keep you going and although they are every headline they are putting out billions right it's another how many billions for defense and there was billions yesterday for this green thing no one is going to pay for this until it seems it may be a decade down the line but when that bill gets called in when that check has to be cashed then you might see people on the streets then people might realize that this is for real you know the left pay for keeps But then it will be too late.
Well, I mean, yeah, but I mean, maybe.
Like, what can you do?
Sort of getting a sort of a national anti-lockdown alliance together, because at the moment we're quite disparate.
But, you know, nobody could foresee that voting for Boris Johnson in an ATC majority would get you a 30-something-year-old, you know, lady, eco-nut, with a cute dog, would then be ruling over us.
No!
Look, you can't foresee that.
What can you do?
But get on to your local MP saying, I never voted for this.
But unfortunately, the things that people care about, namely a money raid, this isn't going to kick in for a while yet.
So it might take a while to really see pushback on it, but I'm still hopeful it will come.
You're usually more optimistic than I am, James, so this is worrying me.
I am sort of in Armageddon mode.
I mean, I think a lot of it depends on whether Trump can demonstrate the massive electoral fraud which has clearly taken place.
And this is another of the things that, as you know, I castigated you and Cathy for running that piece by one of our number saying why Trump should now concede gracefully
And I'm thinking, if you've had the biggest outbreak of electoral fraud orchestrated by some of the evil masterminds of the hard left, we're talking about George Soros, we're talking about Lord Malik Brown, we're talking about computers which Instead of counting ballots actually transfer votes from one from one party to another, things like this that are actually designed to do so.
So there is so much evidence of anecdotal evidence of fraud, it's a question of whether they have enough physical evidence to prove it in court.
But you see, my argument, the reason I'm putting so much faith in Donald Trump is that We desperately need to counterweight to the to the mask agenda, to the vaccine agenda to I mean, I know he's been slightly on board with vaccines, but we definitely need somebody in the world, some person of influence say, hang on a second, this has gone too far.
I mean, look, look at what Biden's done, even even though he's only allegedly or in his own eyes, he's president elect.
Already, he started making noises about how every state should enforce masks, you know, even like South Dakota, which has been holding out very, very well under Kristi Noem.
I have a friend and she lives in, well she did live in Boston, she lives north of it now.
Her children are under five, I know that, she's got three under five.
The eldest, where's the math, so I'm talking a five-year-old, where's the math school?
Right.
So, by the way, you think things are bad here, things could be a lot worse.
They have to wear masks outside, like, you know, so you've got a five year old on a scooter with nobody around and they have to wear masks.
That is proper evil.
I mean, yeah, it's bad.
It's bad what's happening in the States.
But in terms of the election, I mean, the problem is it has to be proved.
You know, you have to prove it.
And I think that's going to be difficult to do.
Wow.
My view on that is it's all very well saying it has to be proved, and I kind of understand that.
That kind of language that, you know, if the courts can't make up their mind, if the courts can't find that this is a stolen election, then we just have to let it go.
But once they've burgled your house and stolen the contents and got away with it, been acquitted by the jury, where is the This incentive for them to come back again, and we get given that it's given that it's so easy, easy.
I think this is my view.
I think that unless we can resolve this in the courts now, It's going to be it's going to be civil war because I don't see any other option.
You cannot have 70 million people or more voting in good faith for a president.
I mean, probably more overwhelming than they did last time and have a minority, for that's what they are, a minority stealing the election using underhand means.
That's that's not how democracy can work.
No, I mean, I agree.
But, you know, I don't I don't think that's going to happen.
And I, you know, I think it would be very bad if it did happen.
Remember, the Democrats' strongest point is they've been stealing elections for decades.
So precedent is with them.
They've done this before.
Whether or not, you know, yeah, I mean, look, it's really serious.
It is serious.
It is 70 million who basically believe that their vote means nothing.
And if their vote means nothing, then their citizenship means nothing.
But I think, you know, they'll take it to the Supreme Court and they'll see what happens.
But if their backs are against it, I don't think there's going to be a wide spread of violence because that's what the left do.
That's what Antifa do.
I don't think conservatives are going to do that.
I think the Republicans will tell him to move on and get out and rebuild in two years time.
You know, look, what can you do?
You can only watch.
And it's whether or not you can save Trumpism.
I don't think you can save Trump at the moment, but whether or not you can save that counter-narrative, that idea that we're not going to be bullied by the mainstream media, that you are pumping out a lot of lies, that borders count.
Whether you can say that or not, or whether the elite are just going to grow more and more arrogant and more and more entrenched, it's going to watch.
There's no indicators now to say at the moment that things are going to get, you know, violent.
Yeah, but look, I totally agree with you about the left, that violence is what the left do, not what conservatives do.
But you see, the problem is that I think that what's happened in 2020 is the acceleration of the ongoing leftist leftist takeover, which has been been happening in our culture for not for a long time.
We look at what happened, for example, the way the police has been infiltrated at the highest levels by social justice warriors trained in common purposes, but a common purpose.
Look at, for example, Neil Basu, the senior policeman in London, who's just been talking about how he wants to make it illegal for people to say anti-vax things on me.
So you're not even allowed to question this dodgy vaccine, which is going to be, thanks to people like Sam Leith, is going to be, is getting closer to being forced on us.
And you know, no, we're not, we're not making you take it, just don't have a job if you, if you won't.
Yes, yeah.
I know outlawing and demonising just, you know, debatable points.
You know, everything is, if you disagree with them on something, it's you're a conspirator.
You know, you're an anti-vaxxer.
I mean, they talk about how Dare Trump delegitimised an election.
It's like you delegitimised the last election from day one.
Your stated aim was resistance, but now it's supposedly unity.
So when the Democrats win, it's unity.
When the Republicans win, it's resistance.
Let me put it another way, because I'm not saying that civil war is going to break out immediately.
What I'm saying is that it's a bit like Solzhenitsyn talking about the main topic of conversation in the Gulags, which was, why didn't we start resisting earlier?
Why didn't more of us do something sooner?
And I think that we are going to find ourselves We already are, actually.
I don't know why I'm presenting it as a kind of future event.
You don't need to be Nostradamus to predict what's going on, because it's already happening to us.
And what's happening is that you and I, and well, the entire country, and other countries too, are experiencing the thing that we, in our 20s, we never imagined would happen to us.
This was the kind of shit that went on behind the Iron Curtain.
Where?
Where a pair of jeans were like gold dust and where, you know, you could barely get a George Michael CD, only if you were really lucky.
We've got all the consumer goods to bribe us.
We can still get kimchi from waitrose and all this stuff, which is a kind of anaesthetic to distract us from what's going on.
But meanwhile, we have As few freedoms as people behind the Iron Curtain used to have.
I mean, that's where we are.
And how do you resist?
When you've got the apparatus of a kind of totalitarian state, this is how the police are behaving already.
That's what it's going to be like in the next few years.
I know.
Well, I mean, we did discuss this, you know, earlier.
I mean, it would take, say, all of the businesses, right, or all restaurants and all pubs in a mass way to say, no, we're going to open.
And the churches say, we're going to open.
Because they don't have the police force to shut it all down, right?
We're going to open, and if you want to shut us down, you can do so.
But it has to be all of them, right?
Because the police can shut individual ones down, but not all of them.
But if everybody opens, they can't.
But the corporates are all invested in it, and It may be that they've got enough money and the small guy, you know, he'll go bust and that'll be it and the government will give them their pacification money and they'll watch Netflix and they'll, you know, slide deeper and deeper into despair, which is the whole plan.
You know, that's the plan.
It's not with a bang, it's with a whimper, right?
That slow slide, the anxiety, the stomach acid, whatever you might say, that just grinding them down.
The totalitarianism isn't going to be like, roll out the tanks anymore, is it?
It's just grind them down all the time with the media propaganda.
And I said, we'll throw them some money here and they can still watch some Netflix until people just get so hopeless that they, you know, do something terrible.
There seem to be various inflection points, I think.
And what the government's behavioural scientists, Black Ops Department, will try and do is to try and anticipate these and counter them.
So for example, one of the infection points I see approaching is if the government makes the mistake of trying to tell all the kids at uni that they cannot come home for Christmas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I suspect there's going to be a mass rebellion there.
So what they'll probably try and do is they'll avoid that by saying, well, you can come home for Christmas under these terms.
Yeah.
Horrific terms as well.
Yeah.
We're being played like fish.
Do you want Christmas on your 25 day?
That's the offer on your 25 day lockdown.
So the students will be given, yeah, you can go home for Christmas, but you've got to self-isolate for two weeks.
Right.
I mean, this is it.
It's all on, it's all, the offer is always terrible.
It's just, is it going to be really terrible or, or just awful?
That's your choice.
Yeah.
You know, going back to normal, that's never on the table, right?
That's never there.
Do you know what I find really, well, one of the, one of the things I find really weird about all this stuff is that I know these people.
I was at university with them.
I, I knew Boris.
I'm very, or was until recently, very good friends with Michael Gove.
I can't believe that my friends are fascists.
And yet they are.
Power corrupts.
Power corrupts, right?
I mean, they're just invested in it.
It just must be delirious and exhilarating to know how you can control people this way.
You know, and again, it may be well that they really believe it and they think, you know, government is so powerful they can control a virus.
You know, it's like saying I'm going to control a hurricane.
You know, you can take certain measures, but people are so Taking care of them and making me safe.
They think that they can make them safe from a virus that spreads so quickly and is asymptomatic.
You know, and anyway, you're fine anyway.
For the vast majority of people, it's not, you know, you could be very sick.
That is true.
But people are really sick from the flu.
The flu can knock you out, right?
The flu can knock you out really badly for at least two weeks and probably drain you for a whole month.
But you don't shut down the whole society for it.
It just snowballs and they get dragged deeper and deeper into this abyss.
that call.
Oh yeah.
I mean it just snowballs and they get dragged deeper and deeper into this abyss.
I mean I think Boris is, I don't even know if he wants it anymore.
I think he probably may well want out.
Yeah, but you know what?
He probably wants out.
I'm sure he does.
But even when Boris goes, his... OK, so the best case scenario is that Rishi Sunak replaces him.
I only say that he's best case.
Yeah, well, that's the thing.
Rishi, we know, has been arguing for prioritising the economy, but he hasn't made his views effective, I suppose, because he's a young guy.
He was put there, wasn't he, by Dominic Cummings, and he probably felt a kind of a sense of allegiance to Dominic, you know, like Cummings is made man, therefore he couldn't step too far out of line.
Cummings was pro lockdown.
So therefore, Rishi couldn't fight too hard.
But actually, even though Rishi has been anti lockdown, he's still on board with all the green agenda.
He's still Goldman Sachs.
He's still he's a great reset guy.
This is, you know, you asked me earlier, you said, I thought you were more optimistic, you know, you're normally the optimistic one.
And I do believe in, you know, pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
But There is no light on the horizon.
I don't see any sign of real hope.
We're in a death spiral.
I don't see how we get out of the death spiral.
It's not obvious to me.
Well, you just have to have faith that people along the line will just say, I've had enough of this and I'm not going to do it anymore.
As you said, they may well anticipate that and just give you little dribs and drabs of freedom here and there.
But there are a lot of vested interests, as I said, until the great money raid comes, you know, and they will allow some meet up at Christmas, because again, they have anticipated that people will do it anyway.
It is definitely the case, things are not great at the moment, but you've just got to You know, you've just got to hope that someone will come along and call time on all of this nonsense.
Well, there was Churchill, right?
Thatcher.
They come along.
They're once in a generation.
They can come along.
Even Trump probably came along at the right time.
Even if he loses this, can you imagine if he had lost?
Because I listened to your last podcast.
If he had lost, there would be no firewall against the Biden disaster.
We'd have lost the Supreme Court.
It would be now sort of a 7-3 split to the Liberals.
The Senate would be bad.
But even a one-term Trump will limit the damage that Biden could do.
And you've just got to hope that there's enough people either in the administration or there's enough people around that can at least limit the damage that's being done now.
I'm putting my hopes on a world war, Laura, because as Roger Scruton said in that podcast we did before he died, I said, look, Roger, what will it take?
What will it take to remind people of what really matters as opposed to the false values of our culture at the moment?
And he said, I'm afraid normally it takes a war.
And I think he's probably right.
I don't want to go to war with China.
Obviously, I don't want my kids to be called up as cannon fodder.
But at the same time, I don't really see how we've lost our moral compass.
We've lost our social compass.
We have no idea about how What a life well lived looks like anymore.
We've got we just get these kind of spray on virtues like, oh, I'm an environmentalist.
I believe in sustainability.
I want to save the planet, you know, regardless of whether or not the actual methods we're using to save the planet are actually more destructive than if we did nothing, which is which is the case.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Look, you know, I'm hoping it won't come to that but, you know, every generation is tested and certainly virtues like courage and things are, there's not a lot of it around at the moment because everybody wants to be liked and nobody wants to speak out.
Like us, we want to be liked, don't we?
We're just not very good at making it work on people.
No, not really.
I think we don't really, you know, we prefer to tell the truth.
I think that is a good That limits your ability to be liked.
But look, it's difficult to know what's coming down the road.
I mean, the West has certainly become very decadent and it's been in what you would call a death spiral and a cultural death spiral for a while.
I would say, of course, that's because of the decline in Christianity.
I mean, you know, the fertility rates have been negative across Europe for years and years.
So, you know, you have a civilization that can't even be bothered to reproduce itself.
Which if you want to talk about, we already know that the, you know, the economically we were in a bad position before now because we weren't we weren't raising enough kids.
And this, of course, is only going to make it worse because it makes harder.
It's harder for people to meet.
It's harder for a lot of people now will decide not to have children because it's economically things are so poor.
You know, again, this is all this is all dark forces at work.
Stopping people from having kids.
And there has been significant cultural decline, both in terms of decadence and, I would say, degrading the culture for years.
And that's where the social conservatism has come in.
And now they've kind of gone for more classically liberal values, just like freedom and things like that.
Alarm bells are starting to ring in quarters that before never really cared about the decline of the family or decline of marriage or decline of literally the idea of raising children.
So, I mean, I think last year there was the lowest fertility rate since they started taking records in America.
And I mean, that, of course, is linked in with your green agenda.
Because babies are environmental disasters.
I mean, again, it is it is demonic.
It is it is a cult in terms of seeing human beings as the enemy, as a virus in and of themselves, you know, feasting on the Earth's resources.
And you have high profile Congress people saying, you know, oh, not having children now, that's the virtue.
Yeah.
Right.
Then you're the good person and you selfish people with your kids.
You know, with a large family like anything over five children, well, I mean, you know, you're just trash as far as a lot of people are concerned.
And again, you can go home to our favourite, you know, reason for even setting up the website, The Conservative Woman, you know, and if you stay at home and raise those children, well, I mean, you're not even worth talking to at a dinner party.
But if you're a CEO of a fashion company, oh, that's big.
Yeah.
Raising citizens, that big.
Raising fashion companies, big.
That deserves respect.
Out of interest, Laura.
This is the point, it's previously getting married, having children and This was a really virtuous way of living.
It was the purpose.
It was the purpose.
Now, well, you're kind of you're you're hurting the environment.
And, you know, if you let those kids out to play, well, you're now you're spreading a virus.
And it's they flip the lift, the left flip everything.
So if you're kind of walking around any of our viewers in a slight daze going, but this doesn't feel right.
It's like, yeah, it's not right.
They're telling you it's all lies.
I was thinking, Laura, isn't it interesting that in the last, what, 10-15 years, the fashion for wearing a beard has become almost ubiquitous among a particular generation.
But beards, traditionally, you think of Victorian gentlemen with their mutton chops and things, or photographs of very hirsute soldiers on the Crimea and so on.
Beards were, or barbarians in The very word comes from beardedness, doesn't it?
They were sort of hairy and they were fierce.
But actually, now, having a beard is, in so many cases, a sign of absolute emasculation and cuckishness.
The hipster.
I think it's the hipster beard.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they're so conformist.
They think they're being different, but you walk in and you're like, wow.
You are literally all the same.
You are all the same.
But of course, if we were to top and tail this podcast, it goes back to our Roald Dahl reference to Fantastic Mr Fox, who hated beards, by the way.
And if you remember the twits, yeah, he didn't like beards.
And he had that paragraph on the Twit where, you know, Mr Twit has his beard and he leaves food in it and he gets to eat this disgusting character.
Yeah, yeah.
So not a fan of the beard, Mr Roald Dahl.
So he's always a good a man of any, I think, to take your wisdom from.
Well, he certainly, he had a good war, didn't he?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, he was shot down, I think.
Yeah, I mean, he was a fighter.
I mean, he shouldn't have survived, really.
He was too big for his cockpit.
He was a very, very tall man and he could barely fit inside his fighter cockpit.
He did have a crash in the desert, which he shouldn't have survived.
I mean, I think he was one of the aircraft defending Malta.
So your chances Survival there were pretty or was it Crete?
Anyway, I forget the chances in over the Mediterranean in that period would have been pretty slim when the Allies were still losing.
Yeah.
But yeah, that I think fantastic.
Mr. Fox is a good way of ending this particular podcast.
And we can do loads more because you're right, Laura.
I think that Okay, so we're not getting arrested and put in the gulag yet, but we are kind of doing our bit by giving hope that there are people like us who believe this stuff, and I hope that you watching this feel heartened by that.
Yeah.
And for those, you know, I didn't for those who are of the religious disposition, if it helps, you know, I think I have started saying my rosary more in terms of controlling your stomach acid.
I think what else what else can you do?
Try and try and pray some more.
Go to go to church when it opens and turn off the TV.
Most definitely turn off the TV and just meet.
Humans are not the enemy.
Children are not the enemy.
You live your life, connect with other human beings as much as you can, and just ignore dead-eyed Hancock, the gruesome Twotham, the ayatollahs of sage, the Taliban and independent sage.
Turn them all off.
And also...
God is one of us.
God is on our side because the other side are our evil.
I think there's not too strong a word.
They're anti-human.
And, you know, I mean, we're made in his image.
So that's why I'm pretty sure God is on our side.
Thank you for that, that that theological comment.
Yeah, that's good.
You're listening to The Deling Poe with me, James Deling Poe and my very special guest, Laura Perrins, editor of Conservative Woman, barrister, mother, Catholic heroine of the fight against evil.
Please, if you've enjoyed this podcast, or even if you've actually hated it, please, please support me on Patreon or Subscribestar if you can.
I really appreciate it.
It really helps.
As you know, we conservatives are under tremendous pressure right now in this evil world, and it's becoming harder and harder to make a living.
So please support me.
Thank you very much.
And thank you, Laura.
Bye.
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