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Aug. 24, 2020 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:37:52

Sebastian Gorka

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	Welcome to the DellingPod with me James DellingPod and And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest.
	But behold, I have got Dr.
	Seb Gorka on the show.
	How good is that?
	How are you?
	I'm good, but I'm annoyed at you, James.
	I watch your podcast every flipping day, and it's always the same.
	I know I always say this, but I'm very excited for my guest.
	James, you've got to shake it up!
	I know it probably looks a bit, what's the word, amateurish, clunky.
	I think it's, I think, I call it characterful.
	And I think there are lots of special friends.
	Well, of course, as you know, there's only one special friend.
	There's only one, but your avatars, your one special friend, I know.
	Yeah.
	If there were more than one, well, the various avatars, I suspect that most of the avatars would buy a t-shirt if it said, I know I always say, I'm excited.
	James, that's the only bloody reason.
	You've got to stop doing it because it makes you look unprepared and it makes you look like we're having fun and it's organic, I get it.
	But if you turn it into merch, you turn it into merchandise, I approve.
	So let's see those t-shirts, let's see those bumper stickers.
	I'm absolutely fine with you giving me any advice on how to make a success.
	I admit it.
	I am rubbish at monetizing, marketing.
	I mean, I've had a bit of success on Patreon, but I mean, compared to...
	There are people out there who are way better than me, who are much less good at the actual content than me.
	And I don't want to sound bitter, but I think it's one of those things that what God gives with one hand, he takes away with another one.
	I'm just rubbish at marketing.
	No, look, this isn't a weakness of James Brelling.
	I mean, I've been listening to The Delling Pod since the get-go, since when you were associated with White Bart.
	I have to tell you, as a fan of the long form, I grew up listening to talk radio as a kid in London.
	I used to have a little transistor radio under my bed.
	I'd listen to Adrian Love on LBC into the wee hours.
	Now I have a national radio show.
	I love the long form.
	And James, yours is one of the best.
	I mean, just the guests you have.
	Now, thanks to you, I've had him on my show.
	Until now.
	What?
	My guess until now, until I've let the side down badly.
	But yeah, carry on.
	No, but look, this medium is fundamentally about one thing.
	It's about authenticity and the use of authenticity to establish a truly organic relationship of friendship and trust with your listeners and your viewers.
	And you've got that in bucket loads, James.
	When it comes to the monetization, it's voodoo.
	I mean, look at what happened to my YouTube channel.
	I had a YouTube channel, 90,000 followers.
	They cancelled it because of some music copyright strike.
	I had to build it from scratch again.
	Within four months, I was over 100,000.
	Now it's static.
	Now it's not going anywhere.
	It's a game.
	I put the word hydroxychloroquine in a title for my last interview with Dr.
	Gold, and within 30 minutes of it being posted, the YouTube interview was deleted.
	I mean, it is so not in our control.
	So all you have to do, James, is just keep putting superb product out there, and that's what you do.
	Yeah, I think that's probably true.
	It's a really sad thing, I think, about those of us in our business, that we love what we do and we would kind of do it for free.
	And I'm afraid that the print media has worked this out.
	When I started out in journalism, I'm sure it was the same with you, you could earn a really decent living, a sort of middle class, upper middle class person, a professional living.
	Like, I could write journalism in the morning, Or rather, I could write novels in the morning, do journalism in the afternoon, and the journalism would pay for the writing time for the novels.
	You can't do that anymore.
	And that's really sad.
	There used to be a class of profession.
	Journalism used to be actually a profession.
	And if you were good at it, you could get a quid or you could get a dollar a word for an article.
	Now, they give journalism pastors Out to a 21-year-old kid and they say, here's a laptop, here's Google, go and be a journalist.
	The profession is dead.
	It's hacks, it's clickbait, and then it's a few people like you and me who don't tell anybody, I would do my national radio show if I was paying to do it.
	To talk for three hours a day about stuff I care about, It's a godsend.
	The question is, what's happened to the industry?
	And to be honest, you look at the last four years in America, and there's about six journalists left, they're usually regulars on my show, and everybody else are propaganda merchants or just an outgrowth of a political party pumping out either hit pieces or pieces based upon the Democrat Central Committee's talking points.
	And that's not journalism.
	Yeah.
	I was wondering, So many journalists today seem to be left-wing activists doing a bit of journalism on the side.
	I forget the name of that guy, the nasty New Statesman journalist who stitched up Roger Scruton by exaggerating what he said.
	Despicable.
	Despicable!
	But he is not uncommon.
	There are lots of those about.
	Probably most of the...
	When I was into journalism, I just thought I was following in the footsteps of say, even in war.
	I was scoop.
	It was a sort of fun thing to do.
	Oberyn War did it.
	Lots of interesting people did it.
	But now it seems to be a political move rather than an entertaining career move.
	Well, the dynamics of the industry have shifted.
	There used to be journalists who became amazing authors in their own right.
	Who was given an expense account and they'd say, okay, I want to look into this story in North Africa.
	And they'd go off for three months and they'd look into the story of whatever it was, arms trafficking or terrorists in the Sahel.
	And they'd come back home, they'd drop their expenses to 200,000 quid or whatever.
	And the company would say, wow, we've got a 6,000 word exclusive on the pre-Al Qaeda terrorist organization of whatever, the 1980s.
	And then you'd have a string of incredible articles for the next four weeks in the Telegraph, the Times, or what have you.
	Now it's about how many stupid clips can you get on that advert for that dodgy product as the function of the clickbait article title that says, you know, Donald Trump's going to jail again.
	Well, I'm sorry, that's not journalism.
	Well, sometimes I look at the past and think, is it nostalgia?
	Was there in fact ever a golden age?
	Was journalism better?
	But then I think of some examples.
	I think of the fact that Rolling Stone magazine, which is now just what?
	Does it still exist even?
	I don't know.
	All right.
	But left is spilled, yeah?
	Okay.
	Rolling Stone...
	Just a tag, a tag piece.
	Okay.
	Rolling Stone used to employ PJ O'Rourke.
	Yes!
	I mean, his best articles were for Rolling Stone.
	Now, he's not a man of the left.
	He's a libertarian.
	He's a fun guy.
	It was really good stuff.
	He was writing for a magazine which is now irredeemably left.
	And in the same way, I keep coming back to this, when you were in England, you must have bought GQ and Esquire occasionally for the articles about What it was like being attacked by a grizzly bear.
	I remember reading a piece by Will Self.
	He is occasionally capable of being entertaining.
	When he described what it was like going to Sniper Alley in Sarajevo, you know, what it's like being picked up from the airport and having that hair-raising journey into Sarajevo when you might get shot, what it's like going to war.
	That was apolitical stuff.
	Now it's about Lewis Hamilton on the cover of GQ wearing a dress to show that he's comfortable with transgender.
	It's all woke bollocks.
	James, you know, I've been quoted saying this in the past when they did a hit piece on my old boss.
	I said, GQ used to be the magazine you would buy to know which shade of brogues to wear this autumn.
	Yes.
	Right?
	And who's got, you know, which is the coolest new version of Ray-Ban Wayfarers.
	I mean, you know, important stuff.
	And now it's just insane left-wing political garbage.
	Look, just this week, this week, James, Teen Vogue had articles about why Karl Marx is cool.
	A month ago, Teen Vogue had articles about why anal sex is something you should try.
	Teen Vogue, James.
	This isn't us being nostalgic.
	So you knew my parents escaped Hungary.
	I was born and raised in the UK. My parents have passed, and I've gone through some of their old stuff.
	So, suitcases of their memorabilia, my dad's old stuff as a refugee.
	And I found newspaper clippings, you know, from the Sunday Times, from The Observer.
	When you look at these articles from 20, 30, 40 years ago, you will not find anything of its ilk in today's broadsheets.
	I mean, do we have broadsheets left?
	Real bloody journalism on the anniversary of an event, something that happened in the Middle East yesterday, what's happening in 10 Downing Street, it just doesn't get written unless it's a crazy individual like my buddies who come on my show, John Solomon, Sarah Carter, people who are investigative journalists and just say, Screw it.
	I'm going to do this because the story and the readership deserves it.
	I don't care what they do to me.
	And they paid the price.
	They've been attacked by their so-called colleagues in the media because they don't tow the propaganda line.
	And it's not nostalgic, James.
	It's just a statement of fact.
	Yes.
	One of the things that's happened in the last, I'd say, 10 years max, I think, Ten years ago was the first time anyone, anyone ever referred to me as far right, extreme right.
	I mean, it's a joke.
	I'm so kind of not very extreme in any respect.
	You don't know which spliff to smoke first when you go to Glastonbury, right?
	Exactly, exactly.
	So how did we get to this state of affairs where Actually, a friend of mine once referred to me as a hippie fascist.
	I think he meant it as a compliment, meaning that I kind of had right-of-centre politics with left-wing social inclinations.
	But how did we get to the state of affairs?
	Oh my gosh.
	Is this your four-hour podcast?
	Yeah, right.
	I know.
	Let me unload on you.
	So, I don't read, I don't know about you, I don't read autobiographies.
	I just do not have the bloody patience.
	I read factual works to do with my field of national security, and the only fiction I ever read are two things.
	I read Terry Pratchett, the late great Terry Pratchett, which is more social commentary than anything else, and I read Harry Harrison, the sci-fi guy.
	So I don't have, you know, these 800-page autobiographies or biographies of what did Eisenhower have for breakfast on February the 12th, 1948.
	I just, I couldn't care less.
	I've read one autobiography in the last 20 years, and it's a life changer.
	I truly recommend it to all of your viewers, all of your listeners.
	It wasn't my recommendation.
	It was my old boss in the White House.
	It was Steve Bannon.
	And he kept banging on about Hillbilly Elegy.
	And I read Hillbilly Elegy.
	And I read, next to it, I read Andrew Breitbart's Righteous Indignation.
	Let me start with Andrew's.
	Andrew was, we didn't have woke back then.
	He was, he admits he was a mindless, left-wing, pot-smoking drunkard at Tulane University.
	And then he witnessed the Clarence Thomas hearing in which the establishment, the left wing establishment, went after a man accusing him of the most outrageous sexual things because he dared to be black and a conservative.
	And also, you know, he was nominated to the Supreme Court by Reagan.
	That was the Damascene moment.
	That's when he woke up from his reverie and he realized something's wrong in politics.
	If you read Righteous Indignation, you will get the answer to how we got to where we are today.
	It's chapter 6.
	If your listeners only read one thing this year, read chapter 6 of Andrew Breitbart's Righteous Indignation.
	Because he wanted to answer the question you just asked.
	How on earth did we get here?
	We're the freest nations in the world.
	The UK. The United States became these highs of institutionalized leftism.
	And I used that chapter as the basis for my last book, The War for America Sold.
	I took it as inspiration and I unpacked it.
	And let me just, in 30 seconds, tell you where it comes from.
	And this isn't hyperbole.
	It's not tinfoil hattery.
	It's not made up.
	You can check all these names, all these institutions, all these dates.
	Everything you are seeing now, from the anal sex articles in Teen Vogue to the click-by-garbage on the Daily Mail or what have you, goes back to a crippled, hunchback communist in an Italian prison cell in the 1920s.
	From Antonio Gramsci, through the Frankfurt School, through Adorno, through Marcuse, Through Saul Alinsky, all the way up to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Kamala Harris, there is a natural, mappable progression.
	And it's very simply this.
	The world is divided into two political views of the world.
	It doesn't matter where you live.
	One of them says, man is fallen, man is irredeemably unengineerable, and you've just got to manage The fallen nature of man.
	The other side, the left says, we can create utopia, we can create paradise, and we can engineer perfection.
	Communism comes from the latter, as does fascism.
	Let's be clear, these are not opposites on a spectrum.
	They're both utopian end space.
	And what the communists of Adorno's and Gramsci's ilk said, they realized Marx is the way.
	We must have perfection on earth.
	We must engineer our fellow man.
	But his ideology only finds fertile ground in backward agrarian society.
	It worked in Tsarist Russia, and it worked in China.
	When you try and do Marxism in robust Judeo-Christian Western nations like the UK, like America, where there is a solid, healthy middle class that follows Western civilizational norms, It will never work.
	So what do you do?
	Instead of taking your trebuchet to the outside of that institution, what do you do?
	The clever communist becomes a member of the institution and deconstructs it from the inside.
	This is where critical theory is born.
	Don't go up against civilization to destroy it.
	Become a member of it.
	And that's where we get Saul Alinsky's community organizer concept.
	It's not, why did we get here?
	It's, this is how we got here.
	And the real answer, and this is the smack in the face for people like you and me and our parents, if you want to know how we got here, look in the bloody mirror.
	Because we let them, when they failed to institute a revolution on the streets of Paris, In Chicago in 1968, the Days of Rage, the Weathermen Underground, the Students for a Democratic Society.
	When they failed, what did these bastards become?
	Did they surrender?
	Did they retire?
	Did they become poets?
	Hell no!
	They became school teachers.
	They became professors at the colleges of teaching.
	They became tenured-flipping professors in Chicago.
	Bernardine Dorn, Bill Ayres, former terrorists in whose living room Barack Obama's political career was launched.
	We became members of the cultural elite.
	We lost the schools.
	We lost the media.
	We lost Hollywood.
	And then we're bitching and moaning 60 years later.
	Oh, how did this happen?
	We let it happen, James.
	Sorry.
	End of rant.
	That's a really good rant.
	One of the many reasons I like having you on the show is that you're very good at doing your spiel.
	I don't have to do much work to set you off.
	Pick the right topic.
	I suspect there are a few topics that I couldn't kind of just push the button and you'd be off, no problem.
	I really miss your press conferences that you used to do in the early days of the Trump administration.
	You became quite a celebrity, didn't you?
	Yeah, the media hated it.
	So I was rolled out the first weekend when the travel ban was dropped on an unsuspecting establishment.
	And I could tell it wasn't being effectively communicated.
	So I texted Steve Bannon at like 2am on Friday night saying, dude, we need to explain why this is in the national interest of the Western world.
	And I reminded Steve, I have done some media in the past, you know.
	So he immediately said, okay, tell Sean Spicer now.
	And then they threw me into the lion's den Saturday morning and then CNN and MSNBC and the BBC never forgave me.
	Because, you know, I see it as fun.
	You're going into a gunfight and they've got knives and it's just too easy.
	You know, when you go on Anderson Cooper and you say, dude, you know, more people watch reruns of Yogi Bear cartoons than watch CNN. They don't invite you back very soon.
	Yeah, but it was...
	Do you think it was...
	I mean, I would like to see you there today.
	I really wish you were still doing those press conferences.
	What I don't know, and maybe you can tell me, is does it alienate more people than it wins?
	Or does one even care about people it alienates?
	Is all that really matters communicating to the base?
	I think it's got to such a state, James, that I subscribe to what the late Andrew Breitbart says.
	We have to destroy these bastards.
	When they are paid, To lie to us, when each of these assholes gets millions of dollars a year, to lie to the face of the...
	I mean, look at Rachel Maddow, who for four years has spun the Russian...
	Oh, I have his tax returns!
	And she teases the president's tax returns for 40 minutes.
	And at the end of the show, it's a big nothing burger.
	You know, when she talks about this Russian company, this oligarch, and it's just all garbage.
	They lose the right to us going in there with Marcus of Queensbury rules.
	It's a death match.
	These people have lied for far too long, and it's time they got a dose of their own medicine.
	And look, there's a reason 63 million Americans, for the first time in American history, I remind people, from George Washington to Obama, 44 presidents were chosen from the swamp.
	They were either former congressmen, former senators, former governors, or retired generals.
	In 2016, it's like Brexit.
	We chose a non-politician for the first time in American history who called out the lying propaganda scumbags for who they are.
	And we need to continue doing it.
	And one of the saddest things is the president has so few surrogates who do it like he does it and tells it to their face.
	That's exactly what I was thinking.
	I mean, you know, I don't want to sort of blow smoke up your bottom, but I thought you were very, very good.
	You were very, very confident, very, very fluent, very, very funny.
	And from where I'm coming from, this was the right way, the in-your-face approach.
	Like, this is who we are.
	This is the shit that we do.
	If you don't like it, tough.
	And also, it's more than that, James.
	It's more than that, sorry.
	I don't take them seriously.
	That's the key thing.
	They think that they are God's gift.
	I mean, the BBC thinks, they truly think that they're on a higher plane of existence.
	You know, when I went on Newsnight, when I went up with, you know, the Paxman protégés or whatever, you can tell they drip.
	They drip derision.
	For the people who pay their bills and pay their paycheck.
	And I'm not going to respect them because they think they're better than the people who elected the president.
	That's the key thing.
	They must not be given the respect that they have not earned.
	But if you asked anyone on the left or any kind of liberal in America, for example, about you, They would dismiss you as a comedy character.
	They would say, well, he's not a serious person.
	They wouldn't engage with you at all.
	Is that fair?
	There's one of the last of the true journalists out there, Rich Miniter, who used to travel the hotspots of the world, a bit of a kind of PJ O'Rourke kind of guy, and do big investigative pieces on Al-Qaeda and stuff like that.
	And when the tank pieces started coming in, Another journalist interviewed Rich because they knew that we had a relationship.
	And I'm just going to quote what Rich said.
	Rich said, what do you say to those who call Gawker a risible fringe character?
	And Rich, classic Rich minute response says, When you're criticising the man who is Deputy Assistant to the President for strategy in the White House, I think you're the fringe character.
	That's good.
	I think reading your book...
	I don't normally do my homework, but you did give it to me and it would have been rude not to.
	You do actually have very good reason for being angry with the left.
	I mean, more reason than most.
	Reading about your parents, your parents' experience, particularly your father.
	Just for those who aren't familiar with it, just give me the potted history of what your dad went through, first under the Nazis and then under the communists.
	Right, so my parents were born in Hungary.
	My father was born in 1930.
	My mother was born in 1939.
	So they grew up as children under the Nazi occupation of Budapest.
	And my dad, who went to a Catholic school that had about 10% Jewish kids there, by the time the Nazis actually took over, he was a big guy.
	He was an athletic guy.
	He would escort his Jewish class friends who had to wear the Star of David.
	He'd escort them to the local Catholic school.
	Every morning and back at home every afternoon to make sure they weren't abused or spat upon by the occupational German forces.
	So that's as a kid.
	Then the war ends, Budapest is destroyed, and my dad hears at age 15 that something cool happened at Yalta, that Churchill and Stalin have promised that Hungary and the occupied nations will be free, will get to choose their own government.
	So, okay, cool.
	And then what happens?
	By the time he hits 18, the fascists have been replaced by the communists, in many cases, literally changing their uniforms.
	So 1948, Hungary becomes a satellite Stalinist regime.
	And my dad, as a good patriotic Christian, decides to resist.
	Not with a gun, because he knows that's not going to go anywhere.
	But in college, he starts college and he finds seven other like-minded patriots.
	And he says, we are going to spy on the Soviet occupational forces.
	We're going to collect information.
	We're going to volunteer for jobs that gets us access to Troop movements, rail movements, and so forth, and find if we can smuggle that information out to the West, to some allied nation that can undermine the Soviet Union and its theft of our nation.
	Here's the good news.
	They found a courier.
	They found a man who'd established ties to Western Intelligence arm.
	In this case, it was MI6. The courier had free movement across the Iron Curtain, and they started sending out reports.
	Literally, it was, you know, Invisible Ink, classic kind of spy novel stuff.
	And here's the bad news.
	The reporting chain from my dad and his mates at college went all the way to London, to MI6, to the Soviet department, and landed eventually on the desk of Kim Philby.
	Kim Philby, one of the five Cambridge apostles, the most evil traitors to the west of the whole Cold War.
	And what Philby did is he ran my dad's group for about six months until he could identify all of them by name, betrayed them to Moscow.
	Moscow told the Hungarian secret police.
	And at 3 a.m.
	one morning, age 20, my dad was arrested.
	Tortured in the torture chambers under Andrashi secret police headquarters and given a life sentence at the age of 20.
	He ended up in a prison coal mine, two years in solitary, two years in a prison coal mine in slave labor, and then eventually two years later was liberated from the main political prison when some of the revolutionaries in 1956 captured a Soviet tank.
	And with the 17-year-old daughter of a fellow political prisoner.
	He escaped across the minefields into Austria, became a refugee.
	He didn't know he'd been betrayed out of MI6. So when they asked him, the refugee resettlement officer says, where would you like to go?
	Australia's taking refugees, Canada, America and the UK. He said UK. So he ended up in the UK, eventually married that 17-year-old girl who became my mother.
	And that's how I was born in West London.
	So I have...
	I have good reason to hate these bastards.
	Yes, it was the same my late father-in-law who died this year, Stephen Daniff.
	He was Bulgarian.
	And so he too, throughout his life, was bitterly anti-communist because the communists had imprisoned his father.
	They'd taken all his estates.
	He knew they were absolute, absolute bastards.
	And yet so many people in the West indulge communists in the way that we don't indulge Nazis.
	But communists somehow, I mean, I don't know whether you're familiar with this woman called Ash Sarka.
	She's a nice, pretty girl.
	Well, I say nice, pretty girl.
	She's a pretty girl.
	And the BBC often indulges her, even though she's an avowed Marxist, a communist.
	In fact, she famously said on TV, it was an interview with Andrew Neil, I think, you know, I'm literally a communist.
	Like, this was something to boast about.
	And You mentioned Kim Philby.
	Even then there was this kind of indulgence of communists, as though it was a kind of, you know, if you'd gone to fight in the Spanish Civil War for the communists, that was a good thing and it made you a good person.
	I don't get it.
	How is it that we have this weird relationship with communism where we think it's a kind of cuddly thing?
	Well, because they're very, very good at selling the end state of what communism is.
	It goes back to my first rant.
	They are promising paradigm.
	When you say that your goal is Equality, when your goal is justice, it's like, you know, the Black Lives Matter.
	Black Lives Matter is run by people who on video have said, we are trained Marxists.
	These are people who on their website, don't take my word for it, go to the Black Lives Matter website, the second page of their list of objectives.
	Includes dismantling the traditional nuclear family, as if the black family in America hasn't been destroyed enough under the last 60 years of Democrat policies in places like Baltimore and Detroit.
	They promise lovely things that sound so sweet and fluffy, and that's how they rope you in.
	When you say to an impressionable 16-year-old in high school or an 18-year-old in college, How about a life where we're not going to get involved with you.
	You just decide what is important to you and you get to choose your path to the future.
	Or you say, hey, join me and we're going to create communes of peace and harmony.
	It's naivete rampant at the same time.
	As a falsification of history.
	I mean, when the Black Book of Communism, written by French socialist historians, these were not right-wing conservatives, Goes country by country and ends up with a tally of 100 million people murdered or starved to death in the name of paradise and Karl Marx.
	And then you deny this for the rest of history.
	And then, you know, Howard Zinn's A People's History of America becomes the most popular school book.
	In the United States, it talks about America as an empire that exploits people who have different skin colours.
	This is how you end up where you end up today.
	And if nobody's seen it, let me do a little pitch here.
	If I just found it on Netflix or whatever, or Amazon, you have got to see the new film, Mr.
	Jones.
	Have you seen this?
	No, I've been mean to line it up to watch.
	Yes, about the apologist for...
	Yes, it's about Walter Durante and it's about the young Welsh foreign policy advisor to the then British Prime Minister who loses his job, speaks fluent Russian and says, OK, the math about the Soviet Union and Stalin's building of the economy makes no sense.
	I'm going to check out What is going on?
	And he goes to Russia, and he evades the secret police, and goes to the Ukraine, and witnesses the Holmen door.
	He witnesses the starvation, the cannibalism of 8 million Ukrainians starved to death by Stalin.
	And how Walter Durante, the New York Times correspondent in Moscow, the man who still has a Pulitzer to his name, how that man lied for the Stalinists.
	And that's what is being perpetuated today.
	James, they just gave the Pulitzer to the 1619 project of the New York Times.
	Which states that America is genetically racist.
	Slavery cannot be disconnected from the reality that is today's America.
	And if you have white skin, you are responsible for that slavery.
	It continues to this day.
	And the author who got the Pulitzer Prize this time around Tweeted out last week, James.
	Yes, we know this isn't a work of history, but the narrative is what's more important.
	James, it's just, you know, they blatantly say, yeah, we're lying to you because the ends justify our lying to you.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So, obviously, I'm very worried about this presidential election because I see the forces gathering in America.
	I see AOC. I see...
	The Sunrise Movement, they scare me.
	The Green New Deal is a manifesto for worse than communism, eco-communism.
	I mean, it's going to be awful.
	America will fall if Trump doesn't get in.
	Biden is clearly, I mean, he's falling apart mentally.
	He's not up to it.
	I don't know how anyone can vote for him.
	I hope you're going to tell me that this is going to render it impossible for Biden to win and that actually there are lots of silent Trump voters out there who come the day are just going to vote for Trump.
	But am I wrong?
	Look, I don't do predictions, but I'll tell you what I'm observing.
	So, and first things first, I have to give you credit because I think you are the guy who came up with the watermelon.
	I've used it many, many times.
	So, you know, whether it's, you know, the Extinction Rebellion or whether it's Alexander Ocasio-Cortez, these are communists with a green shell on the outside and watermelon is the best description.
	So what's happening in America?
	So the president, my old boss, who's now my new boss again, he achieved in a couple of years things that classic conservatives like myself, who grew up under Maggie Thatcher, deemed almost impossible.
	So when you create, in the space of two years, you create an economy by getting government out of the way that was By large-scale metrics, the strongest economy we've ever seen in the world, lowest unemployment since 1969, highest employment for Blacks, Hispanics and women, it tells you what you can do if you just get out of the way of small and medium-sized businesses.
	When he comes into office, my proudest moment, when he said, screw this concept that Obama sold, ISIS is something we're just going to have to, you know, Obama said ISIS is a generational problem.
	We just have to get used to it.
	He came in.
	He said there are no sacred cows.
	I want these people destroyed.
	Within five months, five months, the generational threat that was ISIS had been utterly vanquished.
	The caliphate, the physical caliphate of ISIS was no more.
	The revitalization of NATO, declaring Economic war with China.
	It was an incredible first term, and then the coronavirus hit.
	And then George Floyd and Black Lives Matter and Antifa.
	So the jury is out every single day on my show.
	I say on at least three occasions every hour, are you doing something today to get this man reelected?
	Are you volunteering?
	You can make phone calls from your house.
	It doesn't matter whether you live in Democrat controlled California or Massachusetts.
	You can be part of the solution because you're right.
	The big difference between 16 and 20 James, is in 16, the establishment found Donald Trump amusing.
	They didn't take him seriously.
	They laughed at him.
	You know, the clips of, oh, he'll never be president.
	We have Obama saying, well, at least I will have been president.
	I mean, they just didn't take him seriously.
	Now, he is the biggest threat, not only to the survival of a radicalized extremist Democrat Party, he is a lethal, lethal threat.
	To the establishment fake conservatives, of which you know very well, given the Brexit experience in the UK. So I'll summarise it thusly.
	We had an inordinate silent majority.
	Remember, we were told in 2016, Hillary, New York Times, Huffington Post, Hillary has a 93% chance of winning.
	And guess who lost?
	Hillary.
	So we had an inordinate silent majority.
	My logic is that silent majority, there's no way it has shrunk in the last four years, given what the president achieved.
	The issue I cannot answer for you in the last 80 days of this election, how many in that silent majority have been intimidated by the events of the last nine weeks?
	When you see grandmothers When a five-year-old boy is shot in the head three days ago because he's white and the shooter is black and nobody in the mainstream media talks about it, forget telling the pollster that you're voting for Trump.
	Are you actually going to go to the polling stations that they want to shut down as Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, is saying, we don't need polling stations.
	Everybody can vote by mail.
	You know, the future of the Republic rests upon those who love what America stands for.
	Yeah.
	So, it's going to be touch and go, basically.
	I mean, this is even more important than the last time round, I think.
	Because, apart from anything else, is Biden...
	Biden is not necessarily more left than Hillary, but the people underneath Biden, who would be the ones who would thrive in this environment.
	AOC is more left than Hillary.
	What do they call that bunch of...
	The squad.
	AOC's crowd?
	The squad.
	I mean, some of them are borderline terrorists, aren't they?
	That Somali woman.
	These...
	I call them the four-horse women of the Democrat apocalypse.
	These are people...
	One of them, Rashida Tlaib, the day she was sworn in to the House of Representatives, said in front of television cameras with her nine-year-old son next to him, let's impeach this MF-er.
	I mean, she didn't say MF-er, she actually said it.
	These are people who, like Ilhan Omar, who it's quite clear married her brother and committed immigration fraud.
	These are people who say, Israel is quote-unquote evil.
	It has hypnotized the West.
	Israeli-American relations is all about the Benjamins, meaning $100 bills.
	These are people who cavort with known anti-Semites like Linda Sarsour.
	And then you have AOC, who...
	The Green New Deal, I mean, Stalin would have been laughed out of the Politburo if he'd said to the members of the committee, guys, I'm coming up with a five-year plan and we're going to outlaw petrol engines.
	We're going to make it illegal for people to fly planes.
	Oh, and Cows are bad because they fart too much, so no more hamburgers.
	I mean, it's funny, but at the same time, it is utter, utter communism.
	The Green New Deal, they released a FAQ, a frequently asked questions response, that they immediately scrubbed and deleted, which were answers to questions about you.
	Do you remember that?
	And one of the things that they said about the Green New Deal, if a building in America, including your home, does not comport To the latest environmental standards For energy use, it will have to be dismantled, demolished, and rebuilt as per federal requirements for greenness.
	James, they didn't do that in the Soviet Union, but AOC wants to do it here.
	In answer to your question, Biden's are nothing.
	Look, one of the most sober, old-school journalists alive today, Brit Hume.
	I mean, really, he is, you know, the The quintessence of what a journey should be.
	On a recent podcast with The Federalist, he said, yeah, he's senile.
	There is no doubt that this man has dementia.
	This man is a shell.
	He's empty.
	He's a suit.
	And he will be a vessel for the extremists, for the radicals.
	His running mate, the newly announced Kamala Harris, has said, you don't need private health insurance.
	We're going to scrap it.
	The government...
	It's going to take care of healthcare.
	And Biden has said, we are giving amnesty, citizenship, and taxpayer-funded healthcare to 11 million illegal immigrants, James.
	You're right.
	And he said, quote, not one foot of the border wall will be built when I come into office.
	It's insane, James.
	It's truly...
	This is, you know, Adorno, Marcuse, Gramsci's wet dream is what is happening right now with the Democrat Party.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so we, well, we've done a lot of stuff.
	I mean, you and I, I think, are pretty politically on the same page and everything.
	And I'm wondering, given that you've got a place working for the Trump administration, whether you're best qualified to Just to criticise Trump, but he's not, maybe it's just me, I think he's badly mishandled the coronavirus thing in that he's allowed himself to be under the thumb of the appalling and dangerous Anthony Fauci.
	I don't think he should be wearing a mask.
	Are you with me on this one?
	The Trump thing to do would have been to say, this is bollocks.
	Here's what the evidence says.
	The evidence shows that this is no more serious than a bad seasonal flu.
	We don't shut down the economy for bad seasonal flu.
	Why isn't he doing this stuff?
	Is he in the hands of leftists in the administration?
	Why isn't Trump being more Trump?
	So, personally, I refuse to wear a mask.
	I'm not a doctor, but I've had, you know, Dan Erickson, I've had Dr.
	Gold on my, Simone Gold.
	I listen to those who are doctors.
	I look at the data.
	I look at, what is it, the Holland experience.
	That has its schools open back up that didn't have crazy quarantine.
	And I look at the facts and yes, this is like a bad...
	Sweden, you mean?
	No, it wasn't Sweden.
	It was an article in the Daily Mail about Holland and they're going back to schools already.
	Yeah, the article in the Daily Mail is interesting.
	But Sweden as well, the whole concept of herd immunity.
	And my conclusion is very clear.
	This is like a bad flu season.
	The rapidity of transmission at the beginning was accelerated.
	That's the unique quality of coronavirus.
	The idea that we kill everybody's immune system by shutting them up at home is insane.
	But when it comes to the president, look, I'm not going to make excuses for him, but you have to understand where he comes from.
	This is a businessman, not a politician, who came back to get America back on its feet, and he did so in terms of the economy and national security.
	He's not a health professional, so who did he rely upon?
	He relied upon the doyens of the health profession in government, who are just flipping Risk-averse bureaucrats.
	And I hate conspiracy theories beyond the entertainment value, but Anthony Fauci is not in league with Bill Gates to vaccinate the whole world and put microtransmitters in your arms.
	So let's stop the insanity for a second.
	But yes, the American response should have been different, if only for one thing.
	When you have one state like South Dakota, that for the first three months has 12 fatalities from the coronavirus, Twelve from a whole state and they have to follow the same draconian measures as New York.
	That's just absolutely unjustified.
	So I see the frustration in him.
	I was in the Oval Office a few weeks ago, but he has to walk a very, very careful line because, James, this is politics.
	This has become politics.
	When you see what Nancy Pelosi, in the first coronavirus aid bill, Stuffed it with an attempt to federalize mail-in ballots for this election.
	Every step you take is a bloody minefield.
	But I think he has drawn the right conclusions.
	Fauci has discredited himself.
	And I think you'll probably see some changes in policy.
	Look, he's been very clear this week.
	We have to reopen the schools.
	When you have had the latest figures, we have had one in four Young adults in June in America, one in four according to the CDC has contemplated suicide.
	That is far more significant than the actual cases of coronavirus happening today.
	Yeah.
	I'm just going to pick you up on that point about, okay, so he's a businessman, so he's good on the economy, he's good on national security, but actually he was good on climate change as well.
	His gut told him he knows that bat-chomping, bird-slicing eco-crucifixes are an evil.
	He knows that the Green New Deal is stupid.
	He knew that America had to get out of the Paris Agreement.
	This is all sensible.
	Somebody, if I'd asked you that question about climate change, you could equally have said, well he's just got to go with what the experts say.
	And what the experts, I use that word obviously sarcastically, what the experts say is that the world is doomed and it's because of our selfishness and greed and we've got to cut down our carbon emissions.
	What I'm saying is, the gut instinct that tells him, despite what the scientists say, that the scientists are talking bollocks, ought to have been the same gut instinct that enables you and me.
	It's not like this information is not out there.
	It's not like...
	Fauci is just the equivalent of the heads of NASA Gears, you know, Dr James Hansen or whatever, or the new guy.
	The scientific establishment is corrupt, mendacious.
	It's about advancing bigger government.
	You know, all the things that we're seeing in the coronavirus is just weaponized climate change.
	So why couldn't, why can't Trump do more about that?
	Why does he have nobody in the White House saying, hang on a second, Mr.
	President, you don't want to go along with this because these guys are your enemies?
	Well, he does now.
	And it's really exciting.
	We're trying to get him on my show of America First.
	He's just appointed a Dr.
	Atlas, who's been a vociferous, vociferous critic of the current policies of lockdown.
	He's newly appointed to the coronavirus task force.
	So now he's got somebody who's been vocal in the media, who's been, you know, iconoclastic, who's close to him.
	I'll explain it like this through my personal experience.
	And tell me if this was the same for you.
	You're absolutely right.
	He operates on preternatural levels of instinct.
	I've never seen it like the like.
	You'll take him a panoply of options.
	You'll take him, you know, nine options on a given issue, and he'll look at them and he'll say, I'm going with option C. And nine out of ten times, it is absolutely the right option.
	It's the same with human beings.
	You introduce him to somebody in the Oval he's never met before.
	Within less than 30 seconds, he'll know if that person is honest, a snake oil merchant, or a good guy.
	It's really quite spooky.
	I've never seen anything like it.
	Here's the issue with coronavirus, and tell me if this wasn't you, because it was me.
	For the first six weeks of the coronavirus, I didn't know what the hell was going on.
	You know, medicine and novel viruses are not things that react easily to common sense.
	Because, you know, when you think common sense, you think, oh yeah, masks should make it better.
	And then you look at the studies and it takes you a few weeks to realise, you know what, masks actually have a propensity to make you sicker.
	That's counter-common sense.
	That's counter-intuitive.
	I was very, very on the fence in the beginning.
	I didn't know what- I was very caught on my show.
	I didn't say, this is man-made.
	This is China.
	We should do lockdown.
	We shouldn't do lockdown.
	I just had to wait.
	And I waited about a good six weeks to see What the flip is going on?
	And I know you, you have a voracious interest in health sciences and your experience with hydroxy and with everything that you've read about put you in a better position.
	But I think for most people, common sense was not on our side.
	So the willingness for us to default To the person with 48 letters after his name is higher in this instance.
	When it comes to the Iran deal, When I was in the White House and he said, said, should I extend the Iran deal?
	And I said, giving Iran $150 billion when they're the biggest sponsors of state terrorism is bad, Mr.
	President.
	It's not a hard, it's not a, it's not a difficult common sense decision.
	Saying that, you know, the Paris Climate Accord stitches us up with the cost for a deal that China doesn't pay for for 30 years.
	You don't need to ask an expert about it.
	You say that's Stop it.
	That's rubbish.
	That's bollocks.
	So, you know, the bollock meter isn't really very handy at the beginning of a new virus.
	Now we're all super smart, right?
	Now we're all at James Dellingpole levels of, you know, knowledge when it comes to health issues.
	But I have to say it was the unique circumstances of a specific public policy field that, unlike many others, Doesn't really lend itself to the rapid application of common sense.
	Does that make sense?
	No, that does make sense and actually it's an interesting point you raise about the early stages of the virus.
	I think somebody wrote a piece about this, how it was kind of right-wing kooks like myself.
	Steve Bannon, people like that, who were actually the first on to the idea that coronavirus, as it was known at the time, was a different thing.
	You know, this could be potentially dangerous because we had the interest in China and the understanding that China is a threat.
	We spend, like a lot of kind of kooky right-wing people, we spend a lot of time on social media looking at alternative sources rather than the mainstream media which was completely ignoring the story.
	So we were sort of prepped up to think actually this is different, this time it's different, this is a serious threat.
	So yes, in the beginning I thought well hang on a second, I better make sure that my parents are up to date with their I did make them get some jabs, the ones to do with pneumonia, because I thought that I knew that there was no vaccine for the flu, but I thought, well, if they get secondary infections, then this might help them.
	So, yes, I did take it seriously.
	But you'll agree with me that that was then.
	Trump has had plenty of time to absorb the information, and okay, so he's got this new guy, but even so, what's he doing playing the mask game?
	Why is he being pictured in a mask?
	Am I right, actually, a supplementary question here.
	Did I get the impression from Twitter that Ann Coulter was still a kind of a Covid bedwetter?
	Can we just not waste our time on people who are irrelevant?
	Ann Coulter is a clown.
	When she started When she started viciously attacking the president who made her millions of dollars because of her books two years ago, I refuse to waste a breath on that woman.
	She probably is a bedwetter.
	She's probably petrified of it.
	It wouldn't surprise me.
	Maybe she thinks that's ways to sell a new book.
	Ann Coulter is a joke.
	And one last thing, if I may, on the president.
	And again, not an excuse, but your viewers in the UK probably Don't appreciate one additional complexity.
	When the founding fathers established this nation, it sounds a bit strange now, they wanted Washington DC, they wanted federal government to be an irrelevance.
	They wanted federal government to have about as much to do with the daily lives as the American people, as NASA did, if you get my drift.
	It was foreign policy, National security and interstate trade.
	Period.
	There was no Environmental Protection Agency.
	There was no Department of Education.
	So, as a result, we really have a system in America where states' rights or the primacy of states is absolutely fundamental.
	For example, you know, why do people think, hey, why hasn't the president deployed his police forces to secure the courthouses that are being burnt down in Portland?
	Because guess what?
	We don't have a federal police force.
	We have the FBI that investigates, you know, hostage taking and bank robberies, but we don't have a national police force.
	We have 17,000 state and local police agencies in America.
	Public health, James, is not constitutionally mandated as a responsibility to Washington DC. Public health is run by the governors.
	So the idea that, you know, along comes some garbage science from, you know, the intellectual masters of health policy and Donald Trump can wave his federal presidential wand and fix it.
	It doesn't work like that.
	And on top of that, we're 80 days out from an election.
	So he knows every misstep or every attempt by federal government to fix something is going to be turned against him as a weapon.
	So he has to walk a very fine line.
	And let's be clear, he only wore the mask once and he only wore the mask when he went to a hospital to Walter Reed.
	So we need to calm down about, you know, he has he has genuflected at the altar of Dr.
	Fauci, he has it every day.
	Yesterday, he did a press conference, no mask, no nothing, because like me, he admits we all suffer from an innate condition that prevents us from wearing a mask and it's called being born a free man.
	Tell me, you mentioned briefly George Floyd earlier on.
	I haven't seen the body cam footage.
	Yet has it been released, but I've read that it is very damning to the case of Black Lives Matter, that this idea that this guy was effectively the victim of random on-the-street judicial murder.
	Apparently when you look at the footage it's very very clear that this was just a kind of unfortunate accident.
	Do you have any view on this?
	So I've seen the original footage And I've seen the newly released footage or parts of it that came out a week ago, some of which was leaked to the British press and some of which was released by court order.
	So I don't think I've seen all of it.
	And the first thing is, let me make this comment.
	There's a problem when you've got more than 60 minutes of footage.
	OK, that's multiple cameras.
	But the arrest itself took more than half an hour.
	James, I don't care.
	How obstreperous a suspect is, it doesn't take 30 minutes for a trained law enforcement officer to physically secure a prisoner.
	That's problem number one.
	If you can't, with four guys, get a guy handcuffed in the back of a patrol car in less than a couple of minutes, there's something dodgy going on.
	So, a couple of things.
	He's clearly on drugs, so the way he behaved was very strange.
	The claims he makes before anybody kneels on him or does anything that he can't breathe, also peculiar.
	Secondly, he shouts at them, I've got Covid, I've got Covid.
	So that complicates the management as well.
	And then lastly, You know, this needs to be investigated.
	He died whilst a policeman was kneeling on his neck for nine minutes.
	A policeman, who let's just add, worked with George Floyd as a bouncer in the same nightclub for a decade.
	Who knows?
	What past history?
	They may have had the same ex-girlfriend.
	There may have been aspects of revenge.
	They may have just not liked each other.
	But at the end of the day, he's not clearly...
	I mean, watch Candace Owens' incredible takedown of George Floyd's criminal past.
	This is a man involved in armed robberies, armed robberies that involved a loaded gun being used against a pregnant woman.
	We're not talking About a pillar of society.
	All of these things in toto have to be taken together and it has to be investigated.
	And if a crime was committed, those people have to face the penalty.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Do you think, though, that it's going to all this Black Lives Matter thing, all the kind of the removal, the pulling down of the statues, this this massive wave of lefty iconoclasm, Seattle, Portland, Do you think that this is going to play into President Trump's hands or do you think it's going to damage him?
	I think so far it has.
	I think we've had some very interesting callers to my show from the black community who are saying What, defund the police?
	I live in Baltimore.
	I live in Chicago.
	I'm not allowed to buy a gun to protect my family.
	And now when I dial 911, I'm going to be put on an answer machine, you know, when I call the police.
	So I think, yes, you're seeing 30% approval ratings for the president in the black community.
	Now, approval rating doesn't necessarily translate automatically To voting for somebody, but 30% approval for the man who the mainstream media has called a Nazi, a fascist, a white supremacist for three years.
	That's stunning.
	I mean, that's the red pilling of the black community in America.
	Will it translate?
	Look, 80 days in politics is an absolute lifetime.
	Who knows what's going to happen in the next 80 days?
	Again, it returns to the question of Of mobilization versus intimidation.
	Trump voters will crawl over broken glass to vote for the president or even to just go to one of his rallies.
	I didn't come up with this, but it's a great line.
	Who gets up in the morning excited about Joe Biden, James?
	Nobody wakes up excited about sleepy, creepy Beijing Biden.
	So, you know, the Bernie brothers are pissed.
	Are the Bernie brothers going to vote against Biden?
	Are they going to stay home?
	The real issue is voter fraud and organization by the left.
	The left is the Borg.
	They're collectivists.
	They're a hive mind.
	They bus people to the polling stations.
	They've normalized ballot harvesting in California where anyone, anyone, James, can collect hundreds of votes from a tower block and then without any authentication, any verification, can just drop them At a polling station without even being a worker for the polling station.
	They want to do that everywhere.
	We have figures right now, 42% of Democrats are voting early, are voting in the mail.
	That's mind-numbing.
	How those things are verified, when you have governors who've decided to pre-frank the envelopes, so we don't even know what date they are mailed on, so we can't verify whether they were mailed before the election.
	This is a perfect storm coming together.
	So again, I don't do predictions because nobody has ever kept their predictions down the line.
	But we truly, we have an epic, epic task ahead of us.
	And they say it every four years, but this time it's true.
	This is the most consequential election, whether you're 18 or 98.
	And it's the most consequential whether you're living in, you know, Surrey or whether you're living in Boston.
	Yes.
	This probably isn't very often said to you, but there was a moment a while back in this podcast where I thought you weren't batshit crazy enough.
	Seriously, I was concerned you were sounding a bit like, who's that weird CNN guy?
	Anderson Cooper.
	What did I say?
	Yeah.
	You reminded me a lot of Anderson Cooper when you said, I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, that I don't think that Fauci and Bill Gates...
	Of course Fauci is in league with Bill Gates.
	Of course they're trying to force their ghastly, dangerous vaccine on America, on the world.
	There is no question, it seems to me, that the reason the world is overreacting to coronavirus generally It's a concerted effort to get Donald Trump.
	They want the economy to be tanking.
	They want to be able to rig the ballots with postal votes.
	Everything points to the destruction of Donald Trump as the aim of the coronavirus, I don't know what you call them, the bedwetters, the loons, the fascists.
	Do you admit you were slightly Anderson Cooper there and then actually would you like to retract?
	I have to doff my cap to you.
	I've been on this earth for 49 years and I never expected anyone to compare me to Anderson Cooper.
	I'm going to have to ruminate on that one.
	My point is a very simple one.
	I get really pissed off by people on our side I mean, I'm sure I get sent this stuff every day on social media.
	Look!
	Here's the evidence!
	Somebody's cousin at the Department of Homeland Security told me this.
	And, you know, it's got the tattoo of the beast on it and it's 666 and RFID transmitters and mandatory vaccination.
	Yeah.
	Behave.
	Behave, Danny Cole.
	I love conspiracy theories as entertainment.
	I've got bookshelves of them, but it's a reason they're called conspiracy theories and not facts.
	Here's the issue.
	Here's the issue for me.
	When you come along, whether it's QAnon, you know, this cult of, you know, Q worshippers, whether it's Bill Gates and Fauci in this satanic marriage with, you know, spirit cooking as well, and Pizzagate stuff, I just, guys, Do you know how the world works?
	Okay, number one, the left is not a giant conspiracy with Obama in a cave with some kind of joystick and a white cat on his lap, okay?
	It's not how it works.
	You have to understand that this is an ideology, this is a group of people who share an ideology That believes in collectivism.
	I mean, it's like Spock at the end of, you know, the Wrath of Khan when he says, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
	There is no necessity for a master plan.
	There aren't people in smoky rooms in New York with cigars who are planning to...
	The future of mankind.
	That's what pisses me off.
	When people go that, without requisite evidence, they jump to that next level.
	And I say, guys, you are hurting us when you do that.
	Stick with the facts.
	Stick with what we can prove.
	And of course, you know, Bill Gates is a geek with billions of dollars.
	But the idea that he's Blofeld in his hollowed out volcano is not quite accurate.
	Sure.
	But a lot of the stuff we're told we know isn't true.
	I mean, do you believe that it was old stores of ammonium nitrate sitting on the docks at Beirut that it was triggered by a welder's torch?
	Here's my response.
	I don't know.
	And it could be Hezbollah, but I need more evidence.
	That's my response.
	I'm not ruling it out.
	But to say right now, oh, yes, big conspiracy.
	Don't go there because that's not how Western civilization was built.
	It's built on logos with evidence, not just logos and hypothesizing.
	It's reason based on evidence.
	I'm not some kind of crazy empiricist.
	I'm a good mackerel-snapping Catholic Schoolboy from West London.
	So I believe in the transcendental.
	I believe in objective truth.
	But most of all, I believe in truth.
	So your question is the right question.
	I said day one, I looked at that explosion.
	I said, crikey, you're telling me that was an accident that somebody stores 20,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate for seven years in a dock and it just happens to explode?
	It's possible, and let's, you know, Ockham was a bastard, but Ockham's razor is a great tool.
	Let's wait until we have the evidence.
	It could be, but I'm not going to stake my reputation or the Conservative movement's reputation on a could be.
	And that's what a lot of people are doing, and it's hurting our cause.
	Fair enough.
	Ockham, why was he a bastard?
	Because he said, eventually he said reason was everything.
	Occam is actually the preta preta precursor to the critical theory.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I mean, this is education that I received from my wife and an amazing author, Robert Riley, a friend of mine.
	So, you know, we love William of Ockham, we love Ockham's razor, but he is where it all begins, where we worship reason and reason alone, and everything can be deconstructed.
	A very dangerous character, but that's for another podcast.
	Oh, was William of Ockham the one that Umberto Eco used as his model for the character In the Name of the Rose?
	Exactly.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	Suddenly it all comes back to me.
	Yeah, everything connects in the end.
	So, before we go, tell me about your...
	Before we go, before we go, before we go, hold your question.
	I watch you squirm every podcast and I've got to ask you, is your pain bone or is it inflammation related?
	Is it bone on bone or is it inflammation?
	It's both.
	What's happened is I've got C5 in my neck, it's trapped a nerve, causing inflammation all the way across my right shoulder, down to my right elbow.
	But this, in turn, is caused by the fact that my thoracic spine is virtually fused.
	Even though I do Pilates and stuff, it hasn't been enough.
	No, I don't think it's because of the hunting accident, although I don't think having a pin in my In fact, I've been interested if there are any kind of orthopaedic surgeons watching this.
	I think I'm going to have to get my pin out.
	I don't think it's helped.
	I think the collarbone is designed to kind of be, to float around.
	It's not meant to be pinned like that.
	I think this has made things worse.
	But I've been in agony for nearly three weeks now.
	Can I suggest something?
	Will you indulge me for a second?
	Yeah.
	So the biggest backers for my radio show is a father and son team.
	And they created something that's natural.
	It's just based on completely drug-free ingredients.
	Curcumin, resveratrol and omega-3.
	It is absolutely miraculous.
	I had a buddy I went to school with.
	We've known each other for 40 years.
	He woke up two months ago and out of the blue, he got early onset arthritis, got out of bed, his right knee totally buckled and he couldn't walk.
	I sent him some of this stuff.
	He took a double dose and he's walking every single day.
	If I sent you two large bags of the stuff, which before you take the pin out, will you try it?
	Yeah, definitely.
	No, listen, anyone who's been through what I've been through is open to any solution that might work.
	I'll give it a go.
	It takes three weeks of taking it morning and evening.
	It's called Relief Factor.
	I had a low back pain issue that bugged me for nine years.
	Two weeks later, I was pain-free.
	So before you do anything drastic, I'll ship it tomorrow and just give it a whirl.
	Thanks, that's really kind.
	What I wanted to ask you was, tell me about your new job in the White House.
	What's happening?
	Well, it's the perfect combination because it's not in the White House.
	Everybody was worried when the president made the announcement.
	So I'm still doing my daily radio show.
	You can watch it on YouTube.
	It's called America First, three hours Monday to Friday.
	What the president has done, very graciously, so there is a government body called the National Security Education Board, That has a handful of presidential appointees, and he's nominated me to be one of the two new presidential nominees to the board.
	And this is the entity they created in the 1990s to make sure that the US government national security enterprise, so whether it's the intelligence community, the armed services, the Department of Defense, they have the requisite relationship With private institutions,
	in academe, think tanks, and that the university enterprise It's producing people that can be of use in protecting America.
	So I'm going to be there trying to, you know, get rid of all the Chinese infiltration and, you know, all the gender studies and all that garbage that is being, you know, done in schools that has zero relevance to the future of Western civilization.
	So it's a big lift, but I'm grateful to the president who If you're loyal to him, he's loyal to you.
	And it's great to be half in, half out, still doing the radio show, but still helping the president make America great again.
	That sounds really cool.
	So will it have teeth, this organisation?
	How do you exert power to get rid of, for example, Chinese embedded in universities and gender studies professors and stuff?
	How does that work?
	Loans.
	Government loans.
	One of the biggest mistakes we made is we got government involved in higher education and now they're suckling on the teeth of the taxpayer for the last, you know, decades.
	So there are leverage points and especially now after coronavirus.
	This is the good thing about the Chinese virus, as my boss, the president calls it.
	This is an opportunity.
	When you see You know, Ivy League universities on the edge of financial ruin because students can't go back.
	They can't charge the exorbitant rates.
	You know, this puts government and the parents in a far, far greater bargaining position than would otherwise be the case.
	So, you know, there is a silver lining to the Chinese virus, and that's the The education industry is in dire straits and, as such, will actually have to listen to its customers as opposed to what it's been doing for the last 60 years.
	Do you know what's been bugging me through this interview?
	What?
	It's not an interview, is it?
	It's a conversation.
	I'm always in pain to stress that there are conversations, so I don't know why I use the word interview.
	When you mentioned that when President Trump meets you, he can tell within 30 seconds whether you're a good thing or not.
	And I was thinking, I haven't met President Trump yet, but I now don't want to fail the Trump test.
	Because what I'd be doing now, I'd be thinking, how do I project the real me?
	And probably in my desperation to try and work out what the real me is, I might end up projecting like some crap loser that he really hates and doesn't trust at all.
	And what's the secret?
	Don't worry about it.
	You've got the accent.
	He has a soft spot for the UK, so you've got a leg up already when you appear with your plummy accent.
	You'll be fine.
	Yeah, so look, when he wins, and I come out to DC when I'm allowed to again, can you like fix it so I can, you know, like...
	Let's chat offline.
	I think we can probably help you out there.
	That would be really cool.
	But first, we have to get him elected, all of us.
	Okay, just one more thing before we go.
	Are you following what's going on in the UK? I know you used to live here.
	What do you think?
	Two things, Bojo and Brexit.
	Let's start with what the world owes working-class Brits.
	The Brits who were in the trenches at Verdun The Brits who were fighting the Nazis in the Battle of Britain, they're the Brits that saved Great Britain in Brexit.
	With those people who believe in the UK, believe in British being a good thing, with Nigel Farage's unstinting assault on the Pseudo-Democrat Socialist bastards in Brussels.
	You guys led the way.
	You don't have Modi in India.
	You don't have the Conservative government in Australia.
	You don't have the Trump phenomena without 17.8, what is it, 17.5 million Brits.
	17.4, yeah.
	17.4 Brits saying up yours to this, you know, proto-socialist cabal of the European Union.
	So that is truly a historic moment for Western civilization.
	Since then, it's actually good that from Theresa May to the BBC, the quote-unquote elite has demonstrated itself for who they are.
	From the courts, to the judges, to the House of Lords, they're all scum.
	I mean, truly, Yeah.
	They said, screw the British people, we know better and we don't care about your voice.
	And then, you know, along comes Bojo, pulls it out of the fire, saves it, makes it happen, and then he gets coronavirus and loses his spine or something.
	Look, I'm not prepared to write him off, but the idea that People are getting ticketed and drones are being used to, you know, police people who are going for a walk on the moors and the parks.
	It's just bloody un-British.
	I mean, it's just Churchill must be gyrating in his grave right now.
	So I don't give up on the UK. You're made of sterner stuff.
	I find Boris Johnson fascinating because he's probably The most educated premier we've had in the UK, maybe in a lifetime.
	I mean, how many premiers could debate, you know, another panelist in ancient Greek or whatever.
	So the guy's a smart guy.
	I wasn't sure whether everything's about him, whether he diverts it.
	You know, the cause is Bojo.
	But I think at the end of the day, maybe his brush with death has just rattled him a little bit.
	And we're not back to square one, but we're not where we should be.
	Am I seeing things moderately accurately, James?
	Yeah.
	Well, I think you're being possibly kind to Boris in that you're using his pouch with COVID-19 as the reason why he's Administration has been so disappointing, but I think probably cometh the hour cometh the man.
	What the hour has revealed is that we've got the wrong man for the job and I wonder who would have been up to it, but it's definitely not Boris.
	But I almost think the bigger disappointment, I did a massive Breitbart rant on this yesterday, one of my more colourful ones, and I see I see this as a continuation Brexit versus Remain.
	The people still dictating Britain's policy on coronavirus are the deep state that wanted to derail Brexit.
	They want bigger government.
	They want higher taxes.
	They want to abolish currency.
	They want to abolish banknotes and coins.
	You're seeing this.
	That was a canny move.
	That was slipped under the radar.
	The way loads and loads of shops have been persuaded that actually receiving notes and points is going to kill them.
	And therefore they want to keep their card.
	A very, very clever move back.
	A lot of that's been going.
	So I don't know.
	From this side of the pond, living through it, I'm very despondent about the future of Britain.
	I don't see Faraj as being the saviour.
	He's very good on immigration, he's very feisty, he's funny, but he's been very weak on coronavirus.
	He's been very weak on the destruction of our liberties in the name of this non-existent problem.
	And that strikes me as somebody who's not going to lead us out of this mess because he doesn't realise the mess we're in.
	Careful, James, careful.
	Non-existent, non-existent problem.
	It's not a non-existent problem, okay?
	If, you know, if you've lost grandparents to this, it's not a non-existent problem.
	It's a problem.
	It's a problem.
	No, come on, come on.
	You're undermining your own argument.
	You're undermining your own argument.
	No, no, I'm really not.
	I'm talking about, in the same way that when I talk about climate change as being a non-existent problem, Perhaps there's a degree of exaggeration there and that potentially there could be some bad shit that happens with weather occasionally that could impinge on people's lives.
	But when we've established that this thing is no worse than seasonal flu and that we have never, ever, ever shut down the economy or forced people to wear masks, that's what I mean by non-existent problems.
	So don't you lecture me on my own podcast and don't misrepresent me what I'm saying because I won't have it.
	When I say it's a non-existent problem, I mean that every measure that has been taken to deal with coronavirus has been utterly misplaced.
	We would have been far, far better off doing nothing.
	I mean, the ideal situation would have been protecting old people in their care homes, stuff like that, small stuff, yes.
	But I think I'm absolutely bang on the money when I say it's a non-existent problem.
	Why do you take it personally?
	No, I'm not taking it personally.
	No, you did.
	Your tone got aggressive, James.
	But why?
	You called me out.
	No, I said you can't say non-existent.
	Everything you said after that, in terms of the response, the exploitation, absolutely, totally.
	But to say it didn't happen, to say people didn't die...
	Now I've explained what I mean by non-existent problem.
	I think that I'm well covered.
	And that your objection was misplaced.
	That's an interesting definition to non-existent, given that, you know, people did die.
	I'm the guy who says, you know, you don't need to misrepresent me.
	I'm the guy who refuses to wear a mask to such an extent that a guy at 7-Eleven three weeks ago said he was going to shoot me and went to his car to get a gun because he said he's going to shoot me before I kill him by not wearing a mask.
	So, James, Yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
	This is when we undermine what we're trying to do.
	Because what happens when you say non-existent problem, you've just opened an avenue of attack that I don't think you want it to open against yourself.
	And I'm not saying be a cuck about it.
	I'm saying be smart about the way language is used when people are actually dying.
	And I'm not saying anything to do in terms of justifying what you're right about.
	The egregious exploitation in terms of social engineering and authoritarian policies that both sides of the establishment have agreed to since this thing happened.
	But to say non-existent, I stand by what I said.
	You cannot say non-existent.
	I think you're nitpicking.
	No, non-existence said it didn't happen.
	Non-existence said it didn't happen.
	What didn't happen?
	Did the Chinese not send 5 million people across the globe who were sick?
	Did that not happen, James?
	Yeah, yeah, whatevs.
	I think you're making far too much of a fuss about a turn of phrase.
	What is it though?
	No, hang on a second.
	More people died in 2017, 2018 of flu.
	I know all that stuff.
	But hang on a second.
	Hang on a second.
	What would happen?
	Let's enter the real world.
	What would happen if...
	So we started by discussion and criticism of Johnson.
	And you're right.
	Maybe I'm giving him too much leeway because of his own illness.
	But what would be the consequences for a conservative government Of any nation, UK or US, if the head of state said this is a non-existent problem, after...
	Why do you think I'm not a politician?
	No, no, no, but hang on, guy.
	If you're just discussing politics in the rarefied air of an ivory tower, then why are you doing a podcast?
	If it doesn't have relevance...
	No, no, no, everyone...
	If it doesn't have relevance to the real world...
	No, you're steering it in an irrelevant direction.
	Everyone who listens to my podcast knows about context and tone.
	It really doesn't matter that you object to the phrase non-existent problem because pretty much everyone listens to my podcast.
	And those who don't, well, that's their problem.
	No, when I'm talking about non-existent problem, what I mean is something very clear.
	That in the same sense that seasonal flu is a non-existent problem in the realm of politics.
	I'm not saying it's not a problem for those who die of seasonal flu.
	I mean, clearly it's a very big deal if you catch flu and you die.
	But in terms of politics, in terms of something that should be used to Well, take down the economy for three or four months, then it is a non-existent problem.
	The problem is the reaction, not the alleged problem.
	That's all I mean.
	And now I've made it very, very clear.
	If you're saying that coronavirus is politically irrelevant, I agree.
	Except when it comes to China.
	It shouldn't have been the concern of politicians.
	Except when it comes to China policy.
	When it comes to our policy to China, it's not irrelevant.
	Would you agree?
	I totally agree with you there.
	I mean, I think that...
	But actually, I've had a very...
	Before we go, I wasn't expecting this postscript, but actually, very, very interesting...
	This is from...
	I don't want to give away my sources because I don't want to get him into trouble.
	But this is somebody who knows China, and I just think you'll find this interesting actually, so I'm going to share it with you.
	Where are we?
	See whether this accords with what we...
	because you're interested in geopolitics, aren't you?
	A bit.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Okay.
	Just chatting with someone regarding the current state of affairs in China and thought I'd share with you.
	Now that WeChat and TikTok are being banned in the West, particularly WeChat, the Chinese stock exchange will go into meltdown.
	WeChat is the only way Chinese stay in touch with family, maintain their social networks, make payments, do business etc.
	It is a huge hammer blow.
	It means that the Chinese people abroad won't be able to contact family and do business in the usual manner.
	Frankly, I'm quite pleased.
	I think it's about time they had a taste of their own medicine.
	We're forced to use illegal VPNs in China because we are blocked from Gmail, YouTube, Facebook, Messenger, Twitter, etc.
	The only thing we're left with is phone, telephone, text messages and Chinese email services.
	This is the interesting part.
	The Chinese government is shitting its pants already.
	This year, the last seven months has undone 35 years of work, crushed China's reputation.
	Coronavirus has done that very much.
	Angered the Chinese, who are now grumbling a lot about the CCP. And I know that Xi Jinping will get his ass kicked at the annual CCP retreat at Beidaihe this month.
	I think absolutely right that the Chinese coronavirus, as we call it at Breitbart, a good bit of branding there, is a thing.
	The way that they use the World Health Organization to sort of pretend that it wasn't a problem.
	I don't know how complicit they were in actually kind of wanting it to infect the West and cause I mean, that would be a dangerous move to make, I think, because the outcome is so unpredictable.
	But nevertheless, no, of course, this has been a major problem.
	We've seen that.
	I mean, it's their Chernobyl moment, isn't it?
	I mean, Chernobyl, the Sky, the Sky documentary, the Sky drama documentary.
	No, I... That's a fascinating email.
	I don't know if WeChat is the universal way they stay in touch.
	But look, China is on a precipice.
	Before the coronavirus hit China, they had to maintain double-digit GDP growth rates for the next 20 to 30 years.
	Just to ensure that the wealth disparity wasn't as gargantuan as it was already between, you know, Guangdong province and, you know, people who don't have a pair of shoes for the whole year.
	So, you know, at the end of the day, you've got to be cynical with parents who grew up under communism.
	You've got to remember, you know, the old aphorism.
	What was it Stalin asked of the Pope?
	How many tank divisions does he have?
	This is an Asian society that really does believe that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
	Are we going to see a new rebellion?
	Who's going to lead the rebellion?
	Look at Hong Kong.
	If Hong Kong can't do it after 100 years or 80 years of British influence, then what chance the peasants in the paddy fields of less developed parts of China got?
	I don't know.
	But yeah, I mean, it's This is the most important thing we have to remember with regards to the Chinese virus.
	To this day, the idea that any nation, not just the US, but any nation is doing business with the world's largest communist dictatorship that has slave labor camps, and this isn't tinfoil hattery,
	your listeners know this, or if they don't believe it, they can look it up, where political prisoners Have forced organ removal so that their organs can be sold to others to have as their transplants.
	Why are we doing business with China at all?
	We really don't need our plastic garbage to be exclusively made in China.
	I'm happy spending an extra dollar for my travel mugs to be made in Mexico or India and not China.
	So it's an evil, evil regime.
	And the sooner the bastards in Beijing collapse under their own evil malfeasance, the better.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Well, presumably we'll see more of that if Trump gets back.
	If he doesn't, we've got, I mean, Biden is quite in bed with the Chinese, isn't he?
	Beijing Biden, when he was vice president, Hunter Biden traveled to Beijing on Air Force Two with his father, came back and within weeks had inked a $1.4 billion deal with the Communist National Bank of China for his own company, despite Hunter Biden having no background in finance and no background in Asia.
	It's the same thing with his deal with Burisma in Ukraine that landed him a $84,000 per month job in an energy company that he Without him having any background in Eastern Europe or energy.
	So there's a reason we call him Beijing Biden.
	There's a reason that his family, four of his family members, his brothers, his son, have made absolute millions, gobs of cash whilst he was vice president and whilst he was point person for Obama's China and Ukraine policy.
	This is a man...
	Look, Nancy Pelosi actually said it in front of a TV camera this week.
	She said, China...
	Is hoping that Joe Biden wins and she's not wrong.
	Yeah.
	Well, Sam, I've enjoyed having you on the show.
	I think I may have you back because you're quite good at talking, I've noticed.
	Even if you had the temerity to pick me up on a turn of phrase at one point.
	But I think we've made it up.
	I think we're happy.
	Look, I'll keep listening to your show every day and I'm going to send you some relief.
	Send me that stuff.
	I will.
	And I'm looking forward to coming to play with your guns one day.
	Now you're talking.
	I just got myself a.50 caliber Barrett and it is semi-automatic.50 cal Browning.
	It is...
	Wow.
	Talk about toys for the boys.
	Well, a Barrett sniper rifle.
	Yeah, the Barrett, the infamous.50 caliber Browning BMG semi-automatic It's an anti-materiel rifle.
	I picked one up brand new.
	We took it out to shoot and it's a pussycat.
	Pussycat.
	It doesn't have a recoil?
	Well, it does, but it's like a shotgun because it has a massive, huge recoil spring and a huge breach that absorbs the energy quite effectively.
	I can actually send you a video camera of my son and myself firing it standing up, 50 cal.
	Oh, okay.
	That's cool.
	Well, I hope with luck I'll have had my pin taken out of my collar.
	And I hope it will have healed.
	That doesn't really help with my shooting.
	In fact, I'm really worried.
	I've been invited to ground shooting in like a month's time.
	And if this problem I've got doesn't heal pretty sharpish, I'm not going to be able to go, which is a real bummer.
	Can you imagine?
	Oh, totally.
	In the gun stores, get a PAST removable pad.
	It goes on your shoulder and it's a shock absorbing pad.
	It just lies on your shoulder and it'll absorb all the recall, a PAST recall absorption pad.
	It just lies on your jacket and then you can shoot as much as you want.
	Can you get them in England?
	I suppose you can.
	Yeah, I'm sure you can.
	P-A-S-T. P-A-S-T. Yeah, recoil absorption pad.
	And it's like a little lapel thing that sits on your shoulder.
	And if you guys want to check out more Let me do a little blurb.
	The website is sebgorka.com, S-E-B-G-O-R-K-A, sebgorka.com.
	And it's the same on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook, Sebastian Gorka.
	And enjoy the balmy days of COVID summer.
	Great.
	It's been lovely having you on the show.
	Thanks, Seb.
	And come back soon, please.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye-bye.

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