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May 23, 2019 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
48:12
Delingpod 21: Harry Miller
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I love Danny Cole.
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I love Danny Cole.
Welcome to the DellingPod with me, James DellingPod.
And this week's guest, I'm really glad that I managed to move quite quickly to snap him up because he's quite topical right now.
His name is Harry Miller.
Welcome to the podcast, Harry.
Thank you, James.
And Harry is an ex-police officer, so I'm really looking forward to finding out what he thinks about the new kind of politically correct police situation.
But you are now taking legal action against which police authority?
I'm taking action against the College of Policing.
The College of Policing control all of the police forces in England and Wales.
Oh right.
So do they make up the rules about how all the police forces must behave?
Is that...
They make up the rules.
They implement guidance.
In effect, they're supposed to be the intermediary between the Home Office, government and local police forces.
So they have to get the guidance right.
In this instance, we think they've got the guidance absolutely as far wrong as it's humanly possible to be.
Don't get ahead of yourself.
I'm going to ask you to tell your story because it's a great one.
And I think a lot of our special friend listeners are going to identify with this because quite a few of us are on Twitter and we like sort of, you know, being a bit edgy, don't we?
And criticising the stupidities of the time.
Now tell me how you got yourself into trouble.
I got into trouble by criticising the stupidities of the time.
That's exactly what I did.
My wife made me aware a year or two ago about trans rights and the trans women being women, literal women.
I thought it was absolute nonsense and couldn't be true so I started looking at it and lo and behold the nonsense was true.
It totally affronted my sense of fairness and rightness and logic and rationality and the fact that we are biological beings and biology means something.
So I started tweeting about it and very quickly I discovered that there is an army Of people who do not want to debate.
All they want to do is to squash debate and make us all jump up and down like we joined a religious cult and shout out, yay, trans women are women, trans women are women.
And it's happened very quickly, hasn't it?
I mean, five years ago, I think trans rights was barely a thing.
And now it's everywhere.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
We've all been aware that we're supposed to respect people who hold a gender recognition certificate, and we do.
Absolutely.
If somebody's gone through all the trouble of getting a GRC, then there's clearly something wrong, and they've put it right, and we're quite happy to respect that.
The law respects that, we respect that, but it's gone way beyond that now.
Now we're into the realms of Self-identification.
So GRC, no longer necessary.
Simply waking up one day and saying, do you know what?
I think I'm a woman.
And that's all it takes.
We could identify as women for the duration of this podcast, couldn't we?
I think we should, James.
I think we should.
Yeah, yeah.
People won't be able to hear any difference, but they should know that that's their prejudice, listening to our voices.
Yeah, because male voices are female voices.
Yeah.
This is a female voice.
I'm now speaking in my female voice.
Just a sec.
Back to male.
Right, this is my male voice.
There you go.
Did you spot the difference?
Well, I think sensitive people would definitely know the difference, which is that there is no difference.
Exactly, exactly.
So anyway, so you were tweeting about this thing in the way that a lot of us would, because it's one of the most annoying phenomena of our times.
It's the one that's causing a lot of damage, I think, to society.
You hear mothers...
Complaining about the fact that they really don't like the idea of their daughters having to share bathrooms or toilets with men who declare themselves to be women, for example.
And it affects things like girls' sports, doesn't it?
I mean, girls' sports have been ruined by men declaring themselves women and then cleaning up on the medals and things.
Oh yeah, there's Dr Rachel McKinnon, who is professor of some strange new thing called genderology or whatever it is, who went out and instantly became a world record holder.
But actually, they're not really a world record holder, are they?
Because they're a bloke.
They're a man.
They're a man with man's legs and man's lungs and a man's history.
You are a Neanderthal, Harry.
That's the kind of old-fashioned view which has no place in modern society.
So tell me about the tweet incident that you got into trouble.
Okay, so I've been tweeting to my very, very few followers and getting very, very little traction, very few likes.
If I got a like or two, that would make me go, yippee, that's made my day.
Somebody recognises that in the Twitter world, I exist.
But in January, I was in Tesco Car Park, just done some shopping, because that's the kind of guy I am, and I got a phone call from work.
Now, I run a dog company on Immingham Dog.
And my managing director rang me and said, Harry, the police are here.
There's a fella called PC Gull here who needs to have a word with you.
I said, oh really?
I said, better put him on.
So me and PC Gull had a word.
And this is where he told me that they were in possession of 30 transphobic tweets, screenshot from my account and submitted to Humberside Police.
I said, so, okie dokie, why would they have done that?
And PC Gull very earnestly told me that the person from down south was concerned about the health and well-being of the transgender community down at Timmingham Dock.
so basically this this person this this cry bully activist which is what obviously what they were had had thought i know how i can get this bastard because like because i i could complain to jack on twitter and maybe i get him banned but i want to hurt him more than that i want to completely screw over his career so i'm going to try and get him through his company is that was that the deal oh that's exactly it in fact pc gull was very very um straight about that he said what you've got to understand
is that you could be in serious trouble from your HR department and I said well that's really interesting because I am the HR department and I own the company so I ain't going to worry too much about that and all the people that I employ are fairly regular sensible people and they understand the difference between right and wrong crime and non-crime a man and a woman so I'm not going to worry too much about that anyway He then said to me, right, well, regardless, we have these 30 tweets.
I said to him, right, are any of them criminal?
Let's just start off.
Are any of them criminal at all?
And he said, oh, no, no, none are criminal.
I said, right.
So give us your best shot then.
You've got them in front of you.
I don't know what they are.
Incidentally, I still don't know what they are.
Give me your best shot.
And he read me a limerick.
Well, it wasn't even a limerick, but apparently it's identified as a limerick because P.C. Gul called it a limerick.
It was actually a line from a song by a feminist called Ali B. And I said, is that actually the best you've got?
Because in this verse it said, your breasts are made of silicon, your vagina goes nowhere, and your hormones are synthetic.
I can't remember the rest of it.
But incidentally, all things which are factually true.
Yeah.
So this song, I'm not familiar with this song, presumably it was written by one of those TERFs, those...
Yeah, one of those nasty TERFs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They'd had the gall to write a sardonic, satirical lyric on behalf of their own sex, which is terrible, really.
Isn't that one of the weird things, actually, about this transgender thing?
The way that I think the kind of militant feminists who I think normally would have hated you and me...
And have now become our kind of, well, our de facto allies in this war against transgender nonsense.
It is.
It's so strange.
I am the last person on the planet to have a bunch of rad fems on my friend list.
I am just the last guy.
Really, really, I am.
My wife just wakes up and pinches herself that Harry has become this...
De facto champion of women's rights.
Yes, I'm sure your wife must have been shocked by that.
So anyway, back to PC Gull.
He read me this.
By the way, sorry, I'll talk to you again.
Gull, G-A-L-L or G-U-L-L. Gull as in dull.
That's a northern word, dull.
Dull.
P.C. Gull.
Gull.
So in other words, I thought that, like, P.C. Gull.
P.C. Seagull.
Yeah, he's not a seagull now.
Yeah, yeah, P.C. Gull.
Okay, right.
Carry on.
Sorry.
Now I've cleared that one up.
So I asked him, right, okay, so none of these tweets are criminal.
So why are you ringing me?
Why are you ringing me?
And he said, I need to check your thinking.
I was stunned by that, as you can imagine.
I said to him, right, let's just get this straight.
You're a policeman, like an actual, actual policeman.
Yes.
I've committed no crime.
No.
But you're ringing me up to, quote, check my thinking.
And he said...
Yes.
And I said, have you any idea what that makes you?
And poor PC Gull had no idea what that made him, so I proceeded to tell him.
I told him all about George Orwell.
I told him all about 1984.
I told him that 1984 was a dystopian novel and not in actual fact a manual for the police to operate by.
But all of this passed poor PC Gull by.
And he started talking about victim this and victim that and victim the other.
And I said, hold on PC Gull.
Why do you keep talking about a victim?
We've already established I am not a criminal.
So how can I have a victim?
And he said, well, that's just the way that the guidance says that we have to do it because people's feelings have been hurt and upset.
And I said, I really don't care about people's feelings being hurt and upset.
I said, my feelings are hurt and upset by you ringing me and telling me that I'm in trouble for retweeting a limerick.
All of that seemed to pass him by.
But then he very usefully gave me a biology lesson to try and open up my very closed, shallow, narrow, uneducated mind.
And he said this.
He said, what you need to understand, Mr Miller, is that sometimes in the womb...
A female brain accidentally pushes out the wrong body parts.
And that's what being transgender is.
He literally said that.
I laughed.
I questioned him.
And again, in all earnestness, he said, but I've been on a course.
Oh, right.
So you've been on a course.
Okay, then.
In that case, my understanding of biology is entirely wrong and I shall go and wash my dirty brain in the transgender waters and purify my soul and get with the programme.
Actually what I said was, peace eagle, go wash your socks and put the phone down on him.
Well, this was after a 32-minute conversation.
That is extraordinary.
I mean, that's called...
Well, wasting the public's time, I imagine it would be called.
Well, wasting the public's time, wasting my time, and it's not as though there are no crimes in Humberside for the police to go and actually solve.
There are loads of crimes in Humberside for the police to solve.
There are loads that go unsolved, and there are loads that go totally uninvestigated because they haven't got the time or the resources.
However...
Misgendering, they can find a PC. And not only a PC, because following Limerick Gate, whenever Humberside Police, over the following few days, issued anything on their Twitter feed, they were barraged with thousands and thousands of limericks.
Like, thousands.
To the extent that there's now a book available by, I think it's Black Dog Publishing, called Thin Blue Rhymes, celebrating...
Which is sought to capture the fantastic Twitterati who responded to this nonsense in the only way that was sensible, which was to utterly ridicule it.
That's extraordinary.
Okay, so they were barraged by these limericks.
And then what happened?
How did it escalate?
Ah, well, it then escalated because if PC Gull wasn't enough, we went direct to the Assistant Chief Constable because ACC Young then issued a full paragraph about that they were in fact in possession of 30 or more transphobic tweets written or retweeted by me.
And thus associating me with transphobia.
ACC Young advised me that if I continued to do what I was doing, which incidentally was not commit crime, that it would escalate into a crime and I needed to stop immediately.
Assistant Chief Constable, that's quite high ranking in the police isn't it?
What would the sort of salary level be on that kind of job?
A lot of money.
Like, I don't know.
I don't know.
£80,000, £100,000, something like that?
Yeah.
I mean, you're quite high up the ranks there, aren't you?
Oh, yeah.
The next one up is Chief Constable.
Yeah.
So, yeah, yeah.
These are people with an awful lot of power.
An awful lot of power.
And when a PC comes and says, you really shouldn't be doing something, the natural reaction for most people is to obey.
Yeah.
And they don't need the law to be on their side.
The fact that they are there in uniform telling you in their stern voice that you really shouldn't be doing something is enough to make most people back off.
Now, when that escalates to an assistant chief constable, well, pretty much anybody that's left is going to back off.
Except it's just not in my nature.
But also, apart from being a bloody-minded Northerner, you've also got the advantage of having been a policeman, so presumably you know your rights better than most people do.
Yeah, yeah.
I wasn't a policeman for very long and it was many lives ago.
But yeah, I've kept an eye on law.
I enjoy criminal law.
I enjoy human rights law.
I enjoy employment law.
And I also enjoy a right good fight.
I always have.
I've never been able to look the other way.
If I see some injustice going on, I can't help but getting involved.
And if I see a big bully...
Getting involved in bullying somebody who has no power, then I can't help myself.
I've got to get involved.
And an assistant chief constable...
Telling me that I should keep out of political debates, that is incredibly serious.
So he said that you should come off Twitter?
No, he didn't.
He then sent his minion, Inspector Wilson, around to tell me that.
Inspector Wilson told me once again that I was upsetting a lot of people.
And I said, look, you had one person from down south complaining.
He said, oh, no, no, no.
There were way more than one person.
I said, well, that's not what P.C. Gull told me.
P.C. Gull told me there's one person who said, no, we've had a lot of complaints.
I said, on the day that P.C. Gull rang me, how many complaints were there?
And he said, well, on that day, there was only one.
I said, well, of course there was only one.
He said, yes, but there's since been a lot more.
I said, that's because I've been in the newspapers.
But you're making it sound like there was more than one complainant.
And there wasn't, was there?
And he said, well, I'm sorry, I got my words wrong.
And I said, well, who do I complain to about that?
Because you're ringing up me about my words, and you're getting all your words wrong.
I said, so I'm going to ask you this, Inspector.
The government has asked us to get involved in a national debate about the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.
How do I engage in that debate and speak what I think without getting into trouble?
I said I'll give you an example.
I don't believe that trans women are women.
How do I say that without you Ringing me up and telling me not to and without you ringing me up and people being all upset.
And he said to me, why do you feel the need to say that, Mr.
Miller?
I said, what do you mean, why do I feel the need to say it?
He said, why do you feel the need to say that transgender women aren't women when you know full well you've got followers on your Twitter feed who will read that?
I said, Inspector Wilson, that's the entire point of my Twitter feed.
I want people to read it because I'm engaging in a debate.
And he said, well, I have to advise you that you're upsetting people and we will have to get involved.
And I said, this is absolute nonsense.
I then gave him an example.
I said, I'm not breaking any laws.
We've established that.
I said, let's just take a motorist.
If a motorist is driving down the road at a steady 35 miles an hour in a 40 zone...
Are you going to pull him over and warn him not to escalate and break the law?
And he said to me, well, traffic police can do anything.
We can stop anybody for any reason.
I said, that may be the case, but now you're willfully conflating what I'm talking about and you're using obfuscation.
You know that's not what I meant.
Why would you ring me up and tell me to be careful about escalating a non-crime into a crime?
And he said, well, that's just the way that we do it.
That's just the way that we're going to do it.
And if you don't stop, you're going to be in trouble.
And I said, well, what about my Article 10 rights?
My Article 10 ECHR rights state that I'm allowed to engage in public debate.
And express my political beliefs without interference from the police.
You are interfering with that, absolutely and expressly, telling me to get off Twitter and telling me not to say things which are legal because it might upset somebody.
And then his response to me was, well, sue us.
And so that's what you're doing.
That's exactly what we're doing.
Not just me, though.
We've set up a group.
If you go onto Twitter and look up, we are Fair Cop, you will see our new group.
And basically we exist in order to just hold up Articles 8, 9, 10 and 11, the European Convention of Human Rights to the police and say, you're acting out of order here.
I don't care what your guidelines say, your guidelines are subject to law.
And by the way, you as police officers are subject to law and ignorance as to the law has never been a defence.
So if you are ignorant as to law, we're going to make you aware of what the law is, but regardless of that, you are guilty of an offence.
And that offence is breaching our rights.
So what are you hoping to get out of this?
I mean, you're having a judicial review.
Well, we're not having a judicial review.
There are a number of hurdles you have to jump over to get to judicial review.
So initially, I put in a complaint about the behaviour of ACC Young because he was the most senior person that had trampled all over my rights.
Right.
They investigated that complaint by investigating PC Gull, bizarrely, but that's the way power works.
My argument has never been with PC Gull.
He was, to be fair, a useful idiot doing as he was told.
My argument is not with him whatsoever.
My argument was with Inspector Wilson and it's with ACC Young.
So we have to go through that process.
That's been rejected.
So the next thing we do is we've written a pre-litigation notice to Humberside Police and to the College of Policing, which issued guidance and guidelines right the way through all forces in England and Wales.
And basically what we've told them is this.
One, they expunge my hate incident from the record.
Because, bizarrely, get this about the hate incident, there needs to be no evidence of hate, no evidence of an incident.
No, it's in the perception of the person who's complained.
It's entirely perception-based, yes.
Is that McPherson?
I don't think it's...
No, it's not McPherson, but it's based on McPherson.
And I think this is where it gets complicated, because the McPherson report...
Addressed real issues of discrimination.
It was obviously about the Stephen Lawrence case and the endemic racism that there was in society and in the police and how a bunch of white lads murdered a black lad and then how the police response was fairly inadequate, probably based upon racism.
Well, that's what the report said.
I mean...
Now, unfortunately, what's happened now is that we've extended that and we've overextended that so that we are now taking precog action on behalf of a whole bunch of other minorities.
It's like Judge Anderson and Judge Dredd.
Oh, yeah, that's exactly it.
Now, again, there seems to be a very fast and loose handling of the law because...
In the Equalities Act, there are a number of recognised characteristics which are protected.
One of them is holding a GRC, a Gender Recognition Certificate.
Now, that, I believe, takes quite a process.
You have to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria.
It's a very serious condition, and we are not at all wanting to change or alter that.
However, what's happened is we've entered into this world of gender identity politics, where we've stopped using the word sex, which is a protected characteristic, and we've replaced it with the word gender, which is at best a social construct.
And once we start messing with actual words, playing fast and Loose with meaning.
Then we get into this nonsense that we're in now.
So suddenly, we no longer need a GRC. We can just say, ooh, I feel like a woman.
Or, ooh, I've just realised when I grew up, I enjoyed playing with Barbie rather than with GI Joe.
That must mean that I'm a girl.
And the rest of us are supposed to believe that, endorse it, celebrate it.
And if we say, I don't think so, They are running to the police and the police are obliging by saying, we'll go and sort it out and we'll stop this speech.
Because there's been this horrible conflation between serious hate, race-based hate, and this wild extension into post-modern existential gender politics.
And it's that that we're standing against.
Now you're the second ex-copper we've had on this podcast and frankly I can't get enough ex-coppers on the podcast because I am fascinated by the change that has taken place in policing.
I mean, I think given the choice, I'd rather have Gene Hunt doing my policing from, what's it called?
That time travel series.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I forgot what it's called, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Life on Mars.
Life on Mars, that's right.
Life on Mars is great.
You know, the police tended to get the wrong ones in those days.
And now it seems to me that they're after people who are tweeting out hurty things that somebody gets offended by on Twitter.
By the way, not just tweeting out.
I was approached by a lady just this weekend through the We Are Fair Cop website.
And she'd had a visit from the police because she had a Woman's Place UK poster up in her living room window.
Now, Women's Place UK is a group that exists to promote women's sex-based rights.
This lady was a feminist, runs a feminist group.
She had a post up in a window and the police visited her and advised her to take it down because it was offensive.
Well, most people wouldn't even know what that institution was, let alone whether it was offensive or not.
I mean, you'd have to seek out offence, wouldn't you, to be offended by that.
You'd have to know all about this group and effectively want to close the door.
This is their hobby.
It's something they can conduct from the safety of the spare bedroom or down in the basement.
It's the basement.
Yeah, they're down in the basement.
Next to their manacles.
Yeah, that's exactly what they're doing.
And when they're bored with being furries or what have you, they get on being social justice warriors.
We saw this ridiculous photograph the other day of police officers posing with leather-clad people who are identifying as dogs.
What the hell is that all about?
Why would a police officer do that?
Why is that something to celebrate?
At best, it's something that takes place, you know, with your friends in your back garden or in the privacy of your bedroom.
There's loads of this.
Do you remember, I think it was Avon Police, where they had to dress up in high heels for a day?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
So they can empathise with people who wear, well I suppose transgender people who wear high heels.
And then there was, this wasn't quite in the same league of annoyingness, but it's pretty bad.
When that Extinction Rebellion crowd...
Effectively hijacked Waterloo Bridge for a week and kept people from, you know, put it out of use.
There was a policeman showing off his skateboard skills.
Well, it's not a good look for us public who fund these people to keep law and order, seeing them kind of sucking up to the Extinction Rebellion economic terrorists by showing his skateboard skills.
Regardless of what the political ideology it is you hold and whatever it is you're campaigning for, I don't want to see the police getting involved in it.
Whether I agree or disagree, it's not for the police to be involved.
I've offered, I think my offer went up as far as maybe £500 to a police officer, an inspector in West Yorkshire, who was posing all the time with the trans flag around him in full uniform.
And I said, okay...
And quoting trans women are women and basically identifying himself with the ideology.
It's a political ideology.
And police are not supposed to engage in political ideology.
That is the rule.
It's terrifying when they start to do so.
Absolutely.
So I offered, I think it was £500 to the Blue Lamp Foundation if this inspector would meet me and a couple of women so that we could explain to him why we found what he was doing to be offensive and why we object to the notion that trans women are women and the impact that would have on women's rights.
But of course they don't.
They won't come.
They won't speak to us.
No.
Thankfully, I've got a lot of policemen who will speak to me, and I have a lot of policemen who contact us.
We are Fair Cop, has police in it.
Right.
I have knowledge of a police officer, or of a police station not too far from here, Where there is a officer, a serving police officer who has two warrant cards, two sets of uniforms, two names because on Sunday they turn up at work as a police officer male and sometimes they turn up at week as a police officer female.
So they have two warrant cards and that's the kind of nonsense that we are engaging with.
I find that extraordinary.
Has that got out, that story?
How has that got out?
No, I mean, is it in the papers or not?
No, you're the first one to know, James.
But that's just amazing.
This confirms...
Look, I think a lot of us, speaking frankly, have lost faith in the police.
We just think that they're just a bit rubbish, that they are agents of enforcing political correctness.
They're not really interested in investigating burglaries.
They're not interested in stopping knife crime.
I mean...
Judging by the results anyway.
Absolutely, but I don't think it's the individual coppers' fault.
We are very pro-police.
We, our fair cop, are pro-police.
No, that's fine.
Look, I want my faith restored in the police, or rather, I want the police to be restored to a state where they deserve my faith.
So how is that going to happen?
That's going to happen by challenging these guidelines.
Now, to challenge these guidelines, we're doing that.
We will probably end up at a judicial review.
But to get to a judicial review, we've got to convince a judge that we have a case.
And then it will go to the High Court and there'll be a host of witnesses.
I imagine there'll be the Home Office, there'll be ACPO, and then there'll be interventions, no doubt, from the likes of Stonewall and Mermaids all on that side.
And then on our side, we'll have little old me and a few others who've been badly interfered with by the police, which is why we're trying to raise money.
This is probably going to cost somewhere in the region of between £60,000 and £100,000, so...
If you go onto the We Are Fair Cop Twitter page or the We Are Fair Cop webpage, you'll find a place where you can donate into our crowdfund.
Good.
Tell me, Harry, you said you weren't in the police for very long, but tell me about your police career.
I mean, how different was the police?
When were you in the police?
I was in the police in the late 80s and early 90s.
Right, okay.
Has it changed significantly since then?
Oh, it seems to have changed one heck of a lot.
Yeah, I've got a lot of friends who are still in the police and they seem to spend so much time dealing with things which we would never have thought of even touching.
Identity politics, sweary words, posters up in the window, all that kind of nonsense which, come on, What's that got to do with the police?
So how does the sweary words come into it?
They stop people from swearing?
People, yeah, well, not literally, but...
Hurty feelings, then, probably better than sweary words, yeah.
If a sweary word gives me a hurty feeling, then the police will intervene.
Given the choice between hurty feelings and a knife in the gut, what do you think most people would prefer?
Oh.
Give me a minute.
You've given me these really, really hard questions.
I know.
I'm going to go with hurt your feelings.
Well, police policy reflects that.
But just...
Is it...
Where's it...
Because...
I know it's easy to say, look, and I often say this to cover myself, because I like the idea of the police being a good thing.
And I often say, well, look, of course, it's not the rank and file.
The rank and file are decent people who just want to do a good policing job.
It's the higher ups.
It's the people who've got university degrees in sociology.
But actually, I suspect that a fair percentage of the rank and file are just as bad.
They've been on these stupid bloody diversity courses.
They've imbibed this nonsense and they believe it.
And so they are the problem as well.
That's right.
Absolutely.
That's it.
Because once you start promoting these guidelines, and once you start promoting identity politics, and once you start promoting queer theory, well, then you've got to go to a queer theorist in order to get your guidance.
And the queer theorists are absolutely bonkers.
Absolutely bonkers.
This whole notion that...
Oh, a man can be a woman and a woman can be a man.
And by the way, binary is so last century because now there are God knows how many gender identities.
Have you seen that slide from Mermaids where it starts off at one end there's a little pink dressed lady figure and at the other end there's like a G.I. Joe and there's like I think seven or eight different stages and And the police are supposed to say which one they are on the continuum between G.I. Joe and Barbie.
What, the police have to...
As part of their training?
Yeah, on their training, yeah.
On their gender training, they have to identify which they are.
Oh my God.
Am I hard number seven, G.I. Joe?
Or am I really, really, really sort of girly pink, number one?
Or am I somewhere in between?
Yeah, well, I think we're all a bit...
Because everyone...
I get this shit from my kids sometimes, that we've all got a bit of, you know, we're all a bit feminine, we're all masculine.
These things, back in the day, people addressed these issues by adjusting their lifestyle, didn't they?
I mean, you know, sort of dykey women would either become lesbians or tomboys.
And effeminate men would either become gay or effeminate men who sort of like to camp it up now and again.
And that seemed fine.
Exactly.
The police didn't get bloody involved, did they?
No, well, this is basic homophobia.
This is absolute homophobia.
That if you're a guy and you like playing with pink things, then actually you're not an effeminate guy.
You are a girl.
You are a girl.
And you better embrace your new biology and then you can go off and happily play with all the pink things that you like.
Because yay, you are a girl.
Now, to me, that strikes me as being just incredibly sexist.
Why can't we have guys who like to play with feminine stuff and girls who like to do the butch stuff?
My wife spent all her formative years playing with farmyard animals and soldiers, and she absolutely loathed dolls.
She wouldn't put on a dress if she could help you.
Your wife's a bloke.
Well, this is it, yeah.
She is.
By modern standards, I am a home...
What am I?
I'm a homosexual man.
Because my wife is clearly a man.
You're clearly very open-minded and that's good.
You're just right for this new age.
I have this theory, I think I've advanced it before on the podcast, which is that actually that the whole transgender thing is the revenge of the male species on the advance of kind of third wave feminism.
That basically women in the last 20 or 30 years have arranged this world where If you're a woman, you've just won the lottery because you get to be a victim and you get to be totally in charge.
You walk into jobs, you get a place on the board of companies purely because you've got a vagina, because hey, who wouldn't want diversity?
In fact, diversity is compulsory on boards, regardless of whether actually you're much better suited to being at home or much happier being at home.
You're a woman, therefore you must be given a position of authority.
And I reckon that actually, in a kind of underhand or sly, weird way, this is men saying, hang on a second, this isn't right.
I know how we can beat these women.
We can declare ourselves to be women and get all the things that women have, plus the extra bonus of being a really kind of out there victim.
We are transgender.
That's really special.
That's like the top of the...
Top of the victim of the Diversity Olympics league table, medal table.
I think you're completely wrong when it comes to your characterisation of women and jobs.
I think actually women have been poorly treated right the way through.
However, however, however, I do absolutely take your point that this is a fight back by men against women because it's so easy.
It's so easy.
A man goes, oh, there's an all-woman shortlist there.
I can get on that.
I will simply become a woman.
And then the all-women shortlist says, Yippee!
That's great!
We've got a trans woman on our all-women shortlist.
Well, no.
It's an all-women shortlist.
Not an all-women shortlist plus trans women.
But...
If we follow the logic through that trans women are literally women and that biology means nothing, then why not have trans women on all women shortlists?
Or why not have men who identify as women on the day that the trans women shortlist came out and then switch back on another day?
And that's happening.
That is happening, James.
And that's, this is why the optimists among us, I wouldn't call myself necessarily an optimist, but the optimist on the issue of the whole diversity politics, the identity politics, that transgenderism is the point where it reaches, actually Rod Liddle got a good name for it, he calls it peak wank.
It's where the identity politics debate has reached peak wank, where it's clearly absurd that, for example, a rapper who I follow on Twitter, I'm going to get him on the podcast sometime, I hope, essentially broke the women's powerlifting record.
Zuby.
Zuby.
By declaring himself a woman for the duration of his powerlifting thing.
And where women's sport...
I mean, not that I really care about women's sport, except for the joy of the participants.
I mean, I think women should be able to have fun playing sport.
I don't think they should be...
That's very progressive of you, James.
I've got to say.
I don't think it should reach the stage where you listen to Radio 4 now and you get told that Chelsea has just beaten Arsenal, but you're not sure whether they mean Chelsea, the men's football team that everyone thinks of as Chelsea, or whether they mean the women's team.
I mean, that's how far the BBC has gone in that direction.
They now think women's sport are the same as men's sport, which is not, which is just a complete digression.
But where was I going with that digression?
Yeah, it is clearly, absolutely, outrageously wrong that women's sport is being ruined by these men in dresses.
And that's right, and when somebody like Sharon Davis...
Yeah, good old Sharon Davis.
Yeah, when someone like that points this out, then they are deplatformed, they have her...
Abuse hurled at them.
It's absolutely ridiculous.
And because these people, these trans rights activists are sad, lonely cowards.
That's what they are.
And they promote autogenophilia.
They promote all this...
Flipping post-modern existential queer theory bollocks.
And all of it is at the expense of women.
Actual proper women.
And let's face it, we all know what a woman is.
They know what a woman is.
We all know what a woman is.
A woman is an adult human female.
We haven't existed as a species this long without knowing the difference between female and male.
Yeah.
Well, that of course is the other reason why...
Why the Identity Politics Brigade have seized on this issue, because it goes to one of the most fundamental observations that any human being can make, and we're aware of it from a very young age, what a man looks like, what a woman looks like, the difference in sexes, which is why they want to attack it, because it's the ultimate postmodern act to be able to declare that the two traditional sexes are no longer...
It's also a cowardly act though, James, because they wouldn't do it with race.
They wouldn't dare do it with race.
I mean, there's the odd nutter, but it never gains any traction, does it?
Because we all know that that ain't going to work.
That's not going to work.
Just because I grow up.
If I grow up saying, well, you know what?
I like chicken jerky and I like Bob Marley and I like my hair in braids.
Therefore, I am trans black.
Yeah.
Because actually, you know, I didn't like Bono.
I didn't like U2 and I didn't like all those sorts of white things.
Oh, you can't do that.
We all know you can't do that.
You can't suddenly decide, based on liking a bunch of cultural stereotypes, that that changes your fundamental biology.
But when it comes to women, that's a different matter.
Because women are at the bottom of the pile, as far as men are concerned.
And men are able to go, women, that's just so easy.
Even men can do it.
Yeah.
Now, before we go, because I've got you here, I've got a captive ex-police officer.
I want to know, where did it all go wrong?
I mean, the Macpherson report was clearly a bad thing.
No, no, I don't think it was a bad thing.
The Macpherson report was a good thing.
Yeah.
But the way that it's been interpreted and extended is a bad thing.
Yeah.
You see, I mean, I disagree with you there, by the way.
I think actually, by talking about institutional racism...
And that was his phrase.
I think he was talking bollocks.
I think...
You say it's been misinterpreted.
I say he opened the door to misinterpretation by using that kind of phrase.
You can't have...
Institutional racism, come on.
I mean, that's just...
You're effectively making it impossible for the police to defend itself and to...
Well, maybe they can't defend themselves because actually there was institutional racism.
I'm not going to really go into that other than saying that, one, I think it was a fair point that Macpherson made, but two, it's been overextended way beyond what it was supposed to do.
So queer theorists have got hold of it and they've applied it not to what it was written about, but for their own ends.
And by doing so, they've turned the police into an ideological force.
And the fact that they can ring up the police and send out their thought policemen to people like me who exercise wrong think and wrong speak, they've weaponised the police.
So that is clearly wrong.
Sure.
So these things have a momentum of their own, don't they?
That once something gets, once the institution gets what Vox Day calls SJW converged, it's very, very hard to...
To undo the damage.
Because what's happened is that the parasite, which was originally quite small, eventually takes over the host species and becomes the species itself, doesn't it?
I mean, the police...
That's exactly what's happened.
That's why outside Liverpool Police HQ, there was a trans flag flying a few weeks ago.
Yes.
And this is not just the people upstairs now.
This is rank and file police who presumably, the kind of, correct me if I'm wrong, I would imagine that the kind of people who are drawn to the police now are not the kind of people who would have been drawn to serving the police back in the day.
I don't think that's necessarily the case, but I think it's so structured and so well-oiled that you don't really stand a chance because you go into the cookie cutter and you come out in the shape that they want you to be.
And that is an ideological shape.
Okay.
Fair enough.
So, what can we do?
You said that your judicial review, that will help.
But surely, I mean, your judicial review on its own ain't going to solve this problem.
What the hell do we do?
The police is now politicised.
This judicial review, most fights take place at the top of the Jenga pile.
This fight, we are pulling at the very bottom, the very bottom piece.
I mean, we really are.
We are jiggling the bottom piece.
And if we can pull that thing out, the entire thing collapses.
Right.
But it's going to be expensive, which is, again, why I would...
If you don't mind, direct people to the WeAreFairCop Twitter page.
Look for the donations and donate like hell because it's us little people against the man.
And in order to go up against the man, we need money.
Yeah.
I just worry, I have to say, when it all kicks off, and it could do, anytime.
We see how the left are.
We see how certain communities, i.e.
in the Islamic communities, there's social cohesion in this country is potentially a massive problem and potentially a powder keg waiting to go off.
If it all kicks off, I wouldn't trust the police to be on the side of ordinary people.
I would expect them to take the side of the race baiters, of the cry bullies, of the left, basically.
I don't think they're going to take the side of...
because they've been brainwashed into what I would consider wrong think.
Well, that's an odd word to use from some...
But you know what I mean?
See, I don't necessarily think this is a left thing or a right thing.
I think it's a new thing.
I think it's a queer theory thing which goes beyond basic left and right.
Postmodernism meets cultural Marxism.
That's what it basically is.
Call it what you will.
Cultural Marxism plus post-modernism is the enemy of liberty.
It's the enemy of Western civilization.
I mean, it actually is designed to undermine the very foundations of everything that we've...
All the traditions we've got, all our understanding of the world from the basic one that men are men and women are women...
You name it.
That's what postmodernism and cultural Marxism is about.
And that's the side the police are currently taking.
That's why I'm worried.
And I want you to give me hope that this can be undone.
Yeah, I think it can be undone.
But what it takes is someone like, people like me and other individuals with our fights, the likes of Posey Parker, the likes of Maya Forstater, who has taken on, I can't remember what it was, one of her employees for sacking her or not renewing a contract because she expressed gender critical one of her employees for sacking her or not renewing a There are a whole, there is a small minority of us who are leading a charge against this bullshit.
But what we need is a whole bunch of people to join in, support, shout praise, throw money at us because we need it.
We need it because it is.
It's us against the man.
Well, Harry Miller, thank you for coming on the podcast.
I'm glad I got you.
And you are a very, very persuasive and punchy articulator of your case.
And I'm sure people will donate.
I'm slightly disappointed by your completely gay feminist views.
By the way, that was my lady voice again.
Yeah, exactly.
But apart from that, you're a pretty sound chap and it's been great meeting you.
So good luck.
Yeah, thank you, James.
Get your hand in your pocket.
You're listening to the Dellingpole Podcast with me, James Dellingpole, and my very special guest, Harry Miller, which remind me once more of your organisation's name.
We are Fair Cop.
We're called Fair Cop, and we are Fair Cop on Twitter.
We are Fair Cop.
And if you don't donate, he'll come and kick your door in and beat you up, just like in the good old days.
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