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Jan. 29, 2025 - Info Warrior - Jason Bermas
56:46
Trump 2.0 With Dr. Steve Turley
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Welcome to Making Sense of the Madness.
We are now a week deep in Trump 2.0 territory, and to talk about it is Dr. Steve Turley.
He is the author of Fight, How Trump and the MAGA Movement Are Changing the World.
You're not going to want to miss this one.
Buckle up and get ready to make sense of the madness.
And we are back.
We are now joined by Dr. Steve Turley.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Thank you for having me, Jason.
Thank you, sir.
I gotta tell you, you know, I run with the black pill crowd.
You know, I just did a panel with, you know, The Last American Vagabond, Derek Brose, you know, Whitney Webb sometimes comes in.
And even they have to admit, they like the fact.
That Ross Ulbricht has been pardoned.
They like the day one, January 6th pardons.
And really, to me, there are a plethora of other things that have happened in this first week that make me smile beyond words.
And I said that.
Is the guy perfect?
No, he's admitted to that.
I know there's a lot of concern of Larry Ellison, Stargate, people like Sam Altman.
Those are real concerns and I think good ones.
At the same time, we also got our first, in my opinion, huge laugh of the administration when Trump went to L.A. and they're talking about mitigating fires and he looks at them and he says, yes, like water.
Hashtag like water, everybody.
So I know you're a huge proponent of Trump.
And look, the declassifications are another thing we're going to talk about today.
Huge for me.
A guy that's been studying these things really well before I got into this game and got a whiff or a sense that we had been lied to about those events.
So give us your top things that have happened in the past week, what you expect in the coming weeks, and maybe give us one cause for concern.
Oh, yeah.
I have to bring in my own black pilling at the end?
Just a little bit.
There's got to be a little smidge of concern in there somewhere, right, Steve?
Well, I could do it in reverse order, actually.
Because right there, I could tell you immediately, the Republican Party, they're my biggest concern.
If you ever wanted to find a party...
That was dedicated to disappointment and betraying their voters.
It's the Republican Party.
I've never met a party that so despised their grassroots the way Mitch McConnell does or the way Lisa Murkowski does or Lindsey Graham for that matter.
So I think particularly the senatorial Republican Party is my biggest concern.
In terms of just, yeah, in terms of the last week, I mean, it's undeniable.
I think we were all sitting back pretty stunned.
To witness what was, I think without question, the most productive, greatest first week of any president in our lifetimes.
I've said it before, it's very Genesis-like.
So Trump, in a matter of just seven days, has completely recreated our country.
And the Democrats and the legacy media, and as it turns out, even some Latin American presidents, have absolutely no clue.
How to respond.
They have no political leverage.
Trump has all the political power right now.
We could talk about why that is.
And we know that because the more they tried to resist him, the stronger he gets.
He's only going to continue to increase that political power.
For me, the big ones, obviously, the southern border, the security of the southern border and the mass deportations.
Tom Homan is just, he's like beast, dude.
If he was alive in the 10th century in Scandinavia, he'd be a skull crusher.
That guy is just awesome.
I think the dismantling of the beginning of the dismantling of the administrative state where he suspended the security clearances of 51 intelligence officers.
And those weren't just any intelligence officers.
Right.
And it wasn't just that they blatantly lied about the Hunter Biden laptop back in October.
No, Michael Hayden is a bad guy, Steve.
No, you know, John Brennan is a bad guy.
I'm not sure if he stripped Panetta, but if he didn't, what's he waiting for?
Right.
When I saw that on top of it, after these preemptive pardons that were rumored to come, but they literally waited till the last, like.
Last minute.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When I saw the Hunter Biden one.
Right.
And we only got a sneak peek at what a preemptive pardon would look like since it's, you know, historically never been done and so significant on so many levels.
I was kind of shocked that they went with the date of 2014.
Right.
Yeah.
Why not just do his birthday?
Like, I don't understand why you would literally make a marker where there's so much corruption with Ukraine.
The Burisma stuff has been out there for years and years and years.
Why connotate that date?
And then all of a sudden, we get all these other dates or these other characters.
And again, I realize that the mainstream media were all reporting this, but I'm just thinking to myself, 20 plus...
Of these preemptive pardons for people who already think they're criminals and they're just going to say.
And, you know, I read them on air.
Once again, 2014, very weird dates for Fauci.
Obviously, that has to do with eco-health, the involvement of Francis Collins, NIH. But Fauci, go back further.
I mean, it's in Robert Kennedy's book and Bill Gates is actually acknowledging that in interviews at this point.
So that's there.
And then you have the January 6th committee that literally destroyed evidence.
And witness tampered as well.
If you had told me a decade ago that Dick Cheney would, number one, still be alive, but it was him that doesn't need the pardon, his daughter, I wouldn't have believed you.
But again, here we are.
So what are your thoughts with these preemptive pardons?
Because I know a lot of people are kind, and this feels like hopium to me, because one of the first, I had Giuliani on about a month and a half ago.
he's got a book out there about the Biden crime cartel.
We got like five minutes into the interview and I had to stop him.
I go, Rudy, no one in the Biden family is going to jail, bro.
I'm like, Joe Biden's not going to jail.
His brother's not going to jail.
I'm like, it doesn't matter that they committed crimes.
We don't have that kind of accountability.
That's literally the last minute pardon.
And those are all preemptive pardons of nonviolent crimes.
I think again, with this weird 2014 date, that's an issue.
I don't think we're getting state charges against these people.
So number one, how do we get these pardons challenged?
Because I think we need to be.
I don't want Donald Trump preemptively pardoning anybody.
I don't want anybody doing that, number one.
But number two, how do you bring the accountability train in and get some criminal prosecution?
Because that's really the next step if you want to keep these agencies around.
If you want to keep the FBI, the NSA, the CIA, we got to start seeing some high-level criminals being prosecuted for their crimes, in my opinion.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, I do think, I mean, bypassing the specificity of Hunter and the gang there, Brennan and the like, and Fauci, it seems to me his goal, and certainly Doge's goal, is to dismantle the administrative state that allows for these guys.
To profit in the first place.
If there were no administrative state, they could never do this.
So one of the first things that I saw that I really like what Trump did, in addition to stripping the security clearance of the 51, the Fab 51, was he basically fired 17 inspector generals from 12 different agencies, and he's going to replace them with MAGA loyalists.
And then that's huge because they're the ones who are responsible for the ethical administration of the bureaucracy.
And these guys are going to come in like Pam Bondi or Kash Patel.
And I think Trump is very clear, given that they tried to kill him, that they're going to clean house.
No question.
So for me, in the end, I agree with what you're saying.
I don't put a lot of stock in...
In these higher-up Democrats in coming to power, that's why people join the deep state to begin with, is they want to be above the law.
They want to amass a power and wealth that's not accountable to the rule of law.
So that's how Hillary's been able to survive.
That's how Fauci's been able to survive.
Brennan, all of them.
Comey, but...
And then what they tried to do is make an example out of Trump over the last four years.
You go against the deep state, this is what happens to you.
We're going to make you rot in prison, and if that doesn't work, we're going to try to kill you.
Twice.
Twice that we know of, Steve.
Twice that we know of.
Yeah, exactly.
So to me, what he seems to be doing, and based on what I'm reading about how Doge is going to do it, At the administrative and economic level, as well as doing it at the administrative level, is they're trying to dismantle the system itself that allows for these crooks to achieve that kind of power and wealth in the first place.
So we may not get the ones who are the ornaments in the car, you know, in the hood and the like that everybody can see.
But we are taking out the mechanics that create this monster in the first place.
That's what I think they're trying to do.
Well, I certainly hope they can do it.
I think that that does remain to be seen.
At the same time, cutting off huge nexus points, which you're kind of referring to as these names, is a big deal because these people are embedded in the media.
I mean, John Brennan is a paid contributor on MSNBC.
They all have consultancy contracts over the last two-plus decades with every big defense contractor you can imagine from the Raytheons, the Lockheed Martins of the world.
We haven't even really gotten into the pseudo-privatized security agencies that are out there, the expansion of homeland security into these fusion centers, et cetera, et cetera.
Outfits like Stratford that have been around I think three-plus decades at this point.
Geopolitical.
Yeah, that most people aren't even aware of, and I think that you need to cut those off.
At the same time, if you are really releasing the big three – It feels like an arena rock show.
MLK, RFK, and of course JFK as the headliner here.
You've got to ensure it's done in a way that people trust what comes out as well.
What do I mean by that?
Probably the most alarming thing that came out of Edward Snowden's mouth, in my opinion.
Now, a lot of people will say, oh, we didn't know that the government was spying on us before Edward Snowden.
Well, you weren't paying attention.
Because Norris Insight Systems had been used since the 90s.
That was publicly on the record.
They had literal server rooms that went right to the National Security Agency that were cut off from those communication centers.
So we knew that.
And even Snowden in that famous Rogan podcast admits that if you were paying attention, maybe you knew that point.
The most disturbing thing is that when he was going through some of these documents, instead of just a document that had the redactions and then you got to see the real document, there was a document in there that was completely false.
Like that Smith-Munt Modernization Act on crack right there.
And we know...
Now we're talking about a time period a decade ago, okay?
So has that changed?
And I don't want to believe that we're going to get fake documents after all these years.
But if that data point doesn't sit in somebody's head and we at least think that's a possibility, right, until proven otherwise, I think that's dangerous as well.
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, no, it's a good question.
It fits right in with this concern of this dynamic known as delegitimization.
And delegitimization is the process whereby...
The population more and more loses trust and confidence in our public institutions.
And if you go to Gallup right now, our public institutions have never been so low in terms of the trust and confidence that people have in it.
And again, you're seeing it in the ratings with the legacy media.
And all they do is double down on stupid there.
So what you're saying is perfectly legit.
I remember I was talking to somebody who's very pro-Fauci.
And this is a family member.
And so, you know, I'm trying to be cordial and so on.
And they were accusing our side of being anti-science.
And I said to this person, well, are you familiar with this notion of delegitimization?
And she said, nah, I guess I could figure out what it is.
And I said, well, again, if you look at all the polls, what you'll see is science today, medicine.
Big Pharma, Big Ag, you name it, have never been so low in the trust polling than they are right now.
So what do you expect?
Again, it's a calculus.
If people don't trust the institution, why do you think they're going to trust the information?
Coming out of the institution, let alone orders and commands that are life-altering coming from the institution.
So you have to deal with that before you deal with the integrity of science.
May, in fact, be scientifically accurate if you don't have the trust and confidence.
Even Aristotle pointed this out.
If you have two doctors, the doctor who can persuade you that you are actually sick versus the doctor who can't, who does not have the communicative rhetoric to be able to communicate your sickness, that doctor who can't communicate is a bad doctor.
They may both be just as skilled in their field of expertise, but they're...
One has legitimation and the other one doesn't.
So what you're saying is, I think, the very natural extension of the concern of this lack of legitimacy, this crisis of legitimacy, that our public institutions and our so-called public servants have created.
They are reaping what they sowed.
So I'm with you.
I don't know the answer of how they're going to be able to vet the information that's going out.
I can tell you that I do believe...
That the declassification is part of the continued delegitimization of these three-letter agencies, particularly the CIA. This is what the media hates Trump so much for.
They think he just spends 24-7 delegitimizing our institutions, not realizing that he is simply pointing out how much.
Our managerial elite have already delegitimized them.
He's just become a mouthpiece for the masses that have been asking these questions for a very long time.
And it finally came to a tipping point in 2016 when this guy came into office.
And look, with all his faults, he was the first We've all been talking about that.
So listen, you can't blame Trump for delegitimizing him.
He simply, for the first time, took the populist position that this is really happening and agreed with the people.
The book is Fight!
How Trump and the MAGA movement are changing the world.
We're going to take a quick break.
And then I want to dive a little deeper into Fauci because I also...
Had my own Fauci conversation on Saturday night with more than an apologist that, in my opinion, had no idea what was going on.
But we will get there in a moment.
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We are back with Dr. Steve Turley.
Now, Saturday night, I'm over at a comedy show.
I went out to see my man Sam Tripoli, tinfoil hat.
Shout out, Sam.
Love you, brother.
And he brings an opener with him.
Very liberal gay guy.
You know, very open about all of it.
Part of his bit, all of it.
And on the ride over, Sam kind of prepared me for the fact that they had gotten into it over Anthony Fauci.
The night before, and this guy was a pro-Fauci guy.
St. Anthony, yeah.
St. Anthony.
So we get into the green room, and that's the first thing that kind of pops off.
There's like four of us in the green room.
There's this attractive woman over, and she's like, wait a minute, we got a Fauci fan in here?
And he starts talking.
He's like, he's a sweet old man.
He goes, you know, he's a hero in the gay community.
And that's when I had to jump in.
And I go, all right, let's have a conversation just really quickly.
I go, first of all, when we're talking about HIV, I go, how was it spread in the United States via the heterosexual population?
I go, not the drug users, not the sexually promiscuous, etc.
And I get this kind of blind stare, but they go with the main talking point.
They go, blood transfusions.
I go, well, were you aware?
That Bayer had a hemophiliac drug known as Factor VIII that had live HIV virus in it that you would get injected twice a year.
And it just so happened that anybody can look this up.
Not only did they get caught, but when they got caught, they sent that drug over to Germany and Japan and used it until they got caught there.
That's wild.
But remember, the two big faces, other than when Magic Johnson contracted it, were Arthur Ashe, hemophiliac, and Ryan White.
Hemophiliac.
And both of them did not survive.
I go, once I found out that Bayer had a live HIV virus and I studied what Fauci did with AZT and all these other things, you weren't going to inject me with anything ever again.
And I was going to be super skeptical of all narratives.
And I got a funny look.
And then I just typed in bear and HIV and all of a sudden the articles come up and the NDAs are signed.
And I go, isn't that kind of weird that you've never heard that before and that was going on in the 80s?
And, you know, hopefully the wheels started turning.
But for some people, they bought the children's book.
They had the Fauci plushie.
They were in line for, like you said, the St. Anthony candles.
How do we pierce that?
Oh, you haven't seen those?
Oh, they're fun.
I walked into a bookstore once and I saw them.
I almost vomited on the spine.
I can only imagine.
So how do you reach those people?
Yeah, so the best...
The form of defense they seem to have is to radically partisanize the issue.
Oh, you're just a far right wing loon or something akin to that.
And what that does is it delegitimizes you immediately.
What's so neat about our time today and what's so interesting about what Trump represents is we saw a realignment between the populist left and the populist right.
And that realignment brought in RFK, brought in Tulsi, brought in a number of people, Shanahan and the like, who made Maha a part of MAGA. So they actually, all the talking points that, in fairness, Trump generally tended to avoid, I think largely because of his Operation Warp Speed.
Operation Warp Speed.
And this was his mea culpa.
Let's be honest.
Yeah, sure.
Hey, listen, that's the one thing about Trump.
Hates admitting he's wrong.
I couldn't agree with you more.
I think RFK was his mea culpa without Trump coming out and saying, I'm sorry, which he doesn't do.
There's too much of a moxie and a bravado in him for right or for wrong.
I'm just being descriptive.
Whereas RFK and then putting him in charge of HHS, I mean, that is one of the...
Biggest moves that we'll see this week.
This is when you asked me the original question.
That's even freaking out Republicans at this point.
This really is.
He represents the fundamental dismantling of the regulatory agencies and big pharma and the revolving door that exists between the two.
For me, the RFK realignment that happened on that Friday of the...
The Democrat National Committee with the really cool pyrotechnics behind him and all that.
There goes my hero in the background.
I mean, that was it.
That gave us our first real bona fide populist coalition that turned out to be too big to rig.
Let's talk about that because I think it's huge, right?
Number one, like you said, for better or for worse, Trump doesn't say I'm sorry.
The closest that you're going to see him admit to making bad decisions is, again, ironically, on the Joe Rogan podcast, where he admits that he listened to the wrong people.
I loved his quip about Bolton.
Bolton was a maniac, but at the same time, I walked into a room with him, and the opposition knew he was crazy, and he would bomb them in a second, and that gave me an advantage.
I want at least those type of upfront conversations so I can at least get into your head and see where you're coming at from policy.
I'll be the first to say I would have loved to see a Donald Trump-RFK Jr. debate when they were both in the race.
Obviously, that wasn't viable because he wasn't on the Democratic ticket.
And if he had been on the Democratic ticket, really, he might have been able to do the same thing to that party that Donald Trump was able to do to the Republican Party.
Not perfect, but we're seeing less and less of the Grams, the McConnells, etc.
Now bringing him in, obviously the debate is settled.
There is no debate.
And that's why I hope that we are...
We are going to move away from things like Stargate, mRNA.
At the same time, even on the 21st, they just gave $590 million to Moderna to accelerate the bird flu vaccine.
So whether that was the previous administration, obviously in the works in the weeks before, or okayed by this one, we have to keep an eye on those type of programs because Trump should know they'll bite him in the ass if they don't.
Exactly.
No, I think you're a thousand percent correct.
And that's exactly the kind of stuff that RFK will bring to an end.
And they know that.
If we can get him!
Dude, they are partying like they're going to heaven the next day.
Well, let's see.
Because, again, don't you think, Steve, that we're in a spot, like you said, with McConnell voted against Hegseth, right?
And I'm not even championing Pete Hegseth.
We'll see how we can...
I am championing the idea of de-escalating in the Middle East, of getting a peace deal in Ukraine and Russia.
I would love to see.
You know, a three-way press conference with Voldemort, Vladimir, and Donny T. It's well overdue.
Literally, we should watch them walk into a room together.
Three to five hours later, come out and address the press.
I think that's what we all want.
Put Don in the middle.
You got two little pillars that are like five foot two on the sides.
The big six foot tall guy there.
It'll be perfect.
But when you talk about someone like RFK... Will he actually be confirmed?
I don't think that Trump is going to dump him.
I think that we could go to many a vote.
We've seen some confirmations in there.
You know, Kristi Noem, I think that's a great pick if we're going to keep Homeland Security.
DNI, Tulsi Gabbard, again, great pick.
If we're going to deal with intelligence networks, we have to.
I hope that we're going.
Again, that's why Brennan's so pissed on MSNBC. You know what I mean?
He doesn't want a person that's actually going to tell the truth.
He wants a person that's going to...
Basically be a mouthpiece for the arms contractors, for the people that want to keep these conflicts going.
But with this, like I said, this is a whole other world because we're not just talking about, like you said, big pharma.
We're talking about our food, our water, everything down the line, everything that goes into our bodies.
And really, if you're listening to the guy...
It's a positive outlook that we're going to start reining these people in.
Whether we can or not, we'll see.
But it certainly seems to be moving in that direction.
Does he get in?
And if he does, how quickly do things change?
It's a great question.
I do think he'll get in.
I think he'll be approved.
But even if not, I think Trump has made it clear he'd be appointed as a recess appointment, whether that requires him to invoke the constitutional authority as to send Congress into recess or wait simply until Congress goes into recess and then appoint him.
Just because I think he's too important, as Tulsi is, to this new...
You know, Magamaha realignment.
So this Magamaha realignment is RFK. Tulsi's a very close second, but when all's said and done, it is Kennedy-Trump.
And so I think Trump made it very clear.
He is going to be the HHS director, secretary.
There's just no question about it.
How long will it take?
Good question.
We'll have to see.
He seems to be an incredibly competent person who understands what he's up against.
And what he's fighting against.
And again, when you get rid of the corrupt inspectors, generals who keep these federal agencies afloat and you put in Magamaha loyalists, then they have all the political power because that's what this is in the end.
It's all about power.
Who's got it?
Again, the Colombian president found that out the hard way yesterday in about an hour.
Whoa, I have no political power against this guy.
Well, that's what politics is.
So, yeah, I think he's going to get it regardless because he's too important to the realignment.
And I do expect to see almost instantaneous change.
The media is going to flip out and they're going to be accusing him of being anti-vax and anti-health and conspiracy quack and so forth.
The good news, to bring this kind of full circle, nobody listens to the media anymore.
They've never had such low levels of legitimacy before.
So let them squawk all they want.
Nobody listened to them in 2024. They're not going to listen to them now.
So, I don't know if you've seen this clip yet, but we're going to play it.
It is from earlier in the week and it delves right into the heart of the matter with RFK Jr. Now, Bill Gates has come out and said that he has already met with Donald Trump.
He would like to see an acceleration program with an HIV vaccine.
What people really don't realize...
Is during the Biden presidency about a year and a half, two years ago, when they were talking about that global fund program that's been set up over the years, specifically about HIV. Guess what the return on investment was?
I'm going to give you a guess.
All right.
Now, we already know that Bill Gates in 2019 talked about a 20 plus to one return on investment for vaccines.
And I highlighted and illustrated this in a video yesterday.
What's the global fund return?
Yeah, so is 20 to 1, just help my math, is 20 to 1 a 2,000% return?
It went from, again, from the videos where you can see him brag about it, a $10 billion investment over 20 years to a $200 plus billion profit.
Yeah, I was going to say at least 100% return, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were 1,000%.
It is 30 to 1. It is 30 to 1 what Biden brags.
So instead of 20 to 1, this global health fund where, first of all, Bill Gates introduced Joe Biden.
But you had Macron up there.
You had Trudeau.
See, that was the, everybody focused.
That was where he dementiaed out on stage.
Remember that one where he's like robot dementia?
They didn't actually focus on what he said.
They should have.
Now, Bill Gates actually said this out loud.
We're going to play it for everybody because it is just so unbelievable.
What do you make of RFK and vaccines and what he's saying about it and the position he's been given in this incoming administration?
Well, he wrote a book saying that Tony Fauci and I kill millions of children and make billions of dollars with vaccines.
People can judge for themselves whether that's correct or not.
So let's just stop right there.
People can judge for themselves.
Okay, let me think about it.
Yes, it's correct.
Let me just break down exactly what he said because I want to be correct.
First of all, he conflates the issue that he and Tony Fauci made billions on vaccines.
No, that's not in RFK Jr.'s book.
You and your foundation made billions.
Fauci made millions upon millions, maybe tens of millions.
He never says he's a billionaire.
Now, you notice, he goes, you've got to judge whether or not that's true.
There's no doubt.
I played you saying you made $200 billion on your investment.
Therefore, I don't have to judge whether you made the money.
Now I have to judge whether or not you killed millions of children because you conflated those two issues.
Really odd thing to say instead of denying that fact or suing.
RFK Jr. for that book.
Just a little weird.
Yeah, it is.
We're going to take a break.
The book is Fight, How Trump and the MAGA Movement Are Changing the World.
We're with Dr. Steve Turley.
more Making Sense of the Madness after this.
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And we are back.
So we talked about the declassifications coming up.
We've talked about MAHA. We've talked about maybe some of the issues coming up in the administration.
One of the other things I really want to see, and I think that you do need to have if you want true restructuring and you want people to believe in these administrative agencies, again, is 9-11.
And he did tease.
I know a lot of people are talking about Epstein and the Epstein list.
There is no list.
They got a bunch of photographs.
They got a bunch of videos.
They got a bunch of documentation.
He didn't have a client list that he was like, all right, we're going to call up Jean-Luc Brunel on Tuesday.
And no, that's not how it worked.
The guy was an arms dealer.
He was running blackmail operations.
And yes, pedophilia was a big part of it.
We already know a lot of his network.
It's not just Ghislaine Maxwell.
Leslie Groff was named in those documents.
Eric Kalin was named in those documents.
Nadia Marcinkova was named in those documents.
I've read them.
So I assure everybody they know what the network is.
Whether that's coming out, I don't know.
What I can say is we are 20 plus years past 9-11.
And that narrative has been shattered on multiple levels, even by RFK Jr. himself asking about Building 7. Had Giuliani talk to him about Building 7. He actually admitted for the first time that I've ever seen on an interview that his right-hand man, Michael Hess, who was the city corporation counsel at the time, had been blown up in Building 7 with another gentleman named Barry Jennings.
That's how I knew that, because we interviewed Barry Jennings.
They went to the Office of Emergency Management that day on the 23rd floor.
By the time they got there, Giuliani had evacuated it.
No one was there.
When they tried to go downstairs afterwards, that's where they were blown up in the eighth floor, stranded until later that afternoon, and rescued.
Jennings himself said he stepped over dead bodies in that building.
The narrative is still that nobody died there.
Give me a break.
I would have gone door to door for Trump if I believed on day one we were getting the 9-11 documents.
I'm also not naive.
I don't expect that we would get all of them.
Can we get some of them?
Can we get a picture that is closer to reality than the one where it's Arabs with box cutters that hate our freedoms that just happened to do this on the day that there were a multitude of drills where planes were hitting buildings?
You know, all these other different things where if there are explosives in the building, obviously something else is going on.
When you had exploding trucks on the George Washington Bridge and on King Street, that happened twice in New York City that day.
I have the tape recordings from the NYPD as it happened.
So 9-11 for me is the crux because of all of our foreign and domestic policy.
We don't have...
We don't have a Patriot Act.
We don't have a Department of Homeland Security.
We don't have the National Defense Authorization Act.
You go on and on.
Military Commissions Act.
All that stuff comes out of that narrative.
So when it comes to 9-11, what are your thoughts?
Yeah, well, you studied a lot more than I have.
Obviously, Jason, you know your stuff.
I just don't.
I have...
You know, I'm descriptive as opposed to prescriptive in my analysis, and I just haven't heard that much about 9-11, to be honest.
I've heard that much from Trump, J.D., Tulsi, RFK. There'll be a little bit here, or Elon, a little bit here or there, but nothing to make it a centerpiece in revealing what really happened.
It will be interesting.
I mean, again, it is Trump's.
It is in his favor.
His political favor to expose as much of the deep state as possible, again, that I believe tried to kill him.
And so if 9-11 works in that capacity, I think we can expect to see some bombshells.
But purely from a descriptive perspective, I just haven't heard a lot about 9-11 from this administration thus far.
You know, again, it was in that Fox interview.
Where he straight up got asked about it.
And then he gets asked about Epstein, where he says, yeah, maybe we'll look at it.
And then he goes, the Epstein thing, Les.
I don't think we're getting the Epstein documents.
Again, there's a lot of hopium out there.
Even the muskernuts has kind of floated this idea that we're going to get some kind of list.
I don't buy into it.
It makes for great talking points.
One of the things I would love to buy into...
That I felt like was rhetoric on the campaign trail.
But again, you go to that Rogan interview and that's really where you got the meatiest response to it.
And that's the end of the IRS and the federal income tax.
Now again, I'm not on a hopium train.
I think that would be – I'm all for it.
Sign me up.
Like I remember when we had the Ron Paul revolution.
And in 2008, I was telling people, I go, you realize that the guy who's running for president said he's going to abolish the IRS and the federal income tax, right?
And nobody knew that, right?
Like, that wasn't something they were playing up on the television.
They didn't want to push this guy.
But Trump, it was undeniable.
He's talked about tariffs again and again and again.
Even in his inauguration speech, he talked about a restructuring.
I want to believe.
Now, at the same time, I'll take lower taxes.
I'll take cheaper groceries.
I'll take cheaper oil and gas.
I think those are all on their way.
I think there's also the danger of pushing AI, automation, and those type of things a little bit too hard without the public ready for it.
And I don't think Trump is really banked in on that arena.
As well as others.
I'd say this.
He's smart enough to know that the amount of energy it's going to take to run these centers is insane, right?
Like, nobody else is talking about that.
I don't know if you've seen it, but Zuckerberg literally last week announced the size of one of the first centers.
Have you seen this yet?
No, is it crazy?
Yeah.
Let's bring it up for the audience because it's hard to grasp unless you have the visual.
And here is that visual.
So the first data center, which we're looking at is Lower Manhattan, and that purple is going to be the size of the data center.
That's not going to be a one-story building either, folks.
Go down to New York City and just look up a city block and realize how many city blocks.
That is a $60 to $65 billion complex, and that's the first one just for Meta.
You and I both know it's going to be Meta, Google.
Amazon, go down the list, any of the big contractors out there.
So I'd love to get your take not only on the IRS and the future of the economy, but also the AI-driven stuff as well.
Yeah, that's great.
So I think with the IRS, when Trump first brought up the notion that tariffs would replace taxes, in effect, Yeah, I had the exact same reaction.
Oh, that would be awesome.
You put that forward, you run on that, you win in a landslide, that kind of thing.
And I thought it was just kind of a one and done sort of trial balloon sort of thing.
And all of a sudden he did it again.
And all of a sudden he did it again.
And you're kind of going, ooh, something's going on here.
Something's percolating.
So we're going to have to see what specifically...
That involves Trump loves, like in McKinley-like fashion, he loves tariffs.
He thinks tariffs.
It's very interesting the way the IRS has been weaponized of late in order to engage in social engineering.
Trump wants to do with tariffs, but outside of the United States.
You and I do whatever we want.
We enjoy.
So, generally speaking, resentment politics throughout the centuries, if you go back, say, like to Athens versus Sparta.
Resentment politics always had to do with the other outside of your nation.
And resentment politics were implemented precisely because politicians from centuries old recognized how powerful...
An emotion resentment is.
Just ask Marie Antoinette, right?
If the people really start resenting the government, that's a bad thing.
Berlin Wall, fall of the Soviet Union, and so forth.
So they tended to be masters at sort of projecting that resentment to someone else other than the state.
And it was always generally a foreign adversary in some way.
Rome versus the Carthaginians, for example.
But in the 1960s, they started to figure out, actually, if you divide and conquer the people, if you create an adversary internally, then you not only project or deflect resentment away from the state, but then you also create a situation where we're always fighting each other and therefore you need some kind of referee.
To come in and prevent us from eating each other up, basically.
So I dig the notion of external threats coming back, and if that means weaponizing tariffs to create geopolitical opportunities and structures and so forth, while leaving us alone, I'm all for it.
Absolutely.
In terms of the AI, I think this is something akin to what Guillaume Fay, the French theorist, In the 1990s referred to as archaeofuturism, where he believed that in a post-globalist world, populations will go both back to their cultures, customs, and traditions, their ancient religious identities, as it were.
At the same time, they continued progressing, for lack of a better term, in their technological industrial advances.
So it's more like Star Wars as opposed to Star Trek.
The future, if it were Star Trek, it would all be logic, logic, science, one world government, blah, blah, blah kind of stuff.
Where Star Wars is you've got all the cool technology, Star Trek, but it's mystical.
Yeah, it's mystical, it's religious, and so on.
So AI, in many respects, I think crystallizes or embodies the height of technological advance.
I think crypto, in many ways, does the same thing.
And what they do, at their best, is they provoke something called techno-populism.
We're doing it right now, where something like the internet and cyberspace emancipate us from the media powers that be.
In a way comparable to how texting and email bypassed the post office.
So the new technologies, and this is why I think Elon and Trump kind of get along so well, the new technologies ironically free us from the old globalist institutional structures, even like with crypto, for example, with the wall separation even like with crypto, for example, with the wall separation between state and currency, for example.
And interestingly, Trump just signed a ban on state digital currency as well.
CBDCs.
But you know what?
Let's we got to take one last break.
I think that this is a big issue.
Right.
Because number one, if you look at first of all, I'm skeptical on the origins of Bitcoin, Satoshi, whatever.
Let's just say very skeptical there.
But at least the intention there is something that is decentralized.
And again, I think this is a weak point for Trump.
We all watched him at the Libertarian National Convention saying, we need to make all the Bitcoin here.
Not how it works, sir.
It's okay.
Or he also told him that- Well, he wanted to control 5%.
Well, he also said, again, let's make it all here.
Doesn't understand the mining process.
Also said, let's play with your Bitcoin.
Smart enough to get into the meme token market just before the election.
But when we are talking about decentralization and governments, hey man, Altman has his world coin, right?
He's already scanning people's biometrics globally.
You go do it down to the World Trade Center in the middle of New York City right now and get your little world token once a month.
So even if you don't have a centralized CBDC, XRP has exploded.
Here's another meme coin backed by the World Economic Forum years ago, talking about it as a central bank digital currency globally.
Let's take that break and let's get more into the digital world.
In this final segment, the book is Fight, How Trump and the MAG movement are changing the world, and indeed they are.
final segment of Making Sense of the Madness after this.
Making Sense of the
Madness Invest today at own.oldglorybank.com Making Sense of the Madness And we are back.
So let's talk about this digital thing, because, you know, when I just talked about XRP and the World Economic Forum, I watched Trump at the World Economic Forum this week, and there were times where he's literally whipping it out and taking a piss all over them, talking about the Green News scam and the direction that they're going in and saying, hey, Mr. Bank of America, hey, maybe you shouldn't have been debanking anybody on their political beliefs.
It's pretty wild to watch.
And everybody kind of being a subservient lapdog.
At the same time, the tokenization of almost everything, in my opinion, is on the way, right?
We're seeing more and more of these integrations.
Like you said, Bitcoin strategic reserve.
I'm not against it.
I just know where it leads.
And then when you talk about the other big daddy in this market, it's Ethereum.
And that's where so many of these tokens come out of is that Ethereum network.
But what people don't realize comes out of the Ethereum network that is going to be something I think is going to be utilized heavily in the next five years are the smart contract systems.
And the question is, how will those integrate into power plants, into infrastructure in general?
I think that could be dangerous, but I do think that's the movement that we're going on.
Why do I think that...
I think when you're talking about things like your infrastructure and energy, they should be completely off the blockchain.
They should be completely off of any type of connected internet network.
They should have an intranet.
That way, again, the only thing that could take them out is somehow the power not being there and the generators not working.
Not some cyber attack from Russia or Iran or anywhere else because we don't know where it'll really come from.
We know there are proxies out there.
I mean, you look at Stuxnet and that should give you an idea of how confusing it'll be.
Right.
What are your thoughts in that arena?
Because there is no doubt.
We're going to be moving into more and more digital currencies that are going to be utilized more and more.
More people have a Coinbase wallet than ever.
More people are dipping that foot into crypto.
I think a lot of them are going to end up having the rug pulled from under them.
But something like a meme coin with the muskardew and Doge, not the government agency, but the coin.
Look, that's going to be integrated into X shortly.
They're already talking about a payment platform this year.
That was the big announcement at the tail end of the year by Yaccarino and the gang.
They've told you they want it to be the everything app.
We know that Musk already has a background in digital money being one of the guys that slipped in as a founder of PayPal, right, with Peter Thiel and others.
So when we get there, what do you vision the future of cryptocurrency tokenization in this administration?
Well, I mean, I just think it's, I'm with you.
I think it's inevitable.
I think the genie's out of the bag.
Some scholars talk about we're in a period known as the noosphere.
It comes from the Greek word nous, for mind.
So we start off with a geosphere.
You know, the earth is formed, the plates and so on.
And then you get a biosphere that is able to create life.
But then in that life, then we get a noosphere.
And that's where...
Human mind, particularly, again, crystallized in cyberspace and the telecosm, intersects with the whole of the planetary order, even astro order now.
Our geopolitics are moving to astro politics with the satellites and space stations and going to Mars.
Yeah, so I think in the end, I mean, just, again, a cyberspace currency.
It's inevitable.
You're going in that direction.
Energy getting harnessed into a kind of currency is inevitable.
How it works out is anyone's guess.
We'll have to see.
I'm with you.
There's nothing wrong with a very healthy dose of skepticism, but the idea that that genie can be put back in the bottle is absurd.
If it's not us, it'll be China, it'll be Russia, it'll be Iran, it'll be Turkey.
There's no way around that.
So it's there.
The noosphere is here.
Cyberspace is here.
And then the question is, how do we harness it in such a way so that it contributes to a flourishing archaeofuture world and not some kind of dystopian nightmare?
Well, I'll just say this about dystopian nightmares.
I don't think we're creating a utopia.
I don't think we're necessarily creating a dystopia.
However, when we do look at the history of humanity, unfortunately, there are way more oppressive and authoritarian systems that have been in place in regards to free and open systems that we are thriving for.
And I think that we have to be ever vigilant in that regard, especially in a much more interconnected world, which we've already been on that path for a very long time.
I mean, even looking at the COVID-1984 nightmare, right?
Like the CIA is coming out now, endorsing the lab leak theory.
I'm not buying into that, but what I do know is that we had a collaboration of Chinese governments, EcoHealth Alliance, private institutions, the National Institute of Health, Chapel Hill, universities in New York, and we had this big integration internationally of governments, corporations, making that perfect.
Plausible deniability circle.
We've got to stop with that.
We've got to stop with these plausible deniability circles.
We've got to have real accountability.
Again, we have to have institutions that we believe in, and I think the only way we get there is that big purge, is some criminal accountability, and really things that are pushing forward that people can outwardly say, hey, this is positive.
There is more money in my bank account.
My kid is healthier.
My medical costs...
Are down.
Generic drugs are more available.
You hit all those points and you're knocking out grand slams all over.
And that's where I want to see us going, not programmable cancer mRNA research.
Yeah, no, I think you nailed the calculus there.
The more that Trump and his team, because back in 2016, 2017, he didn't have a team coming in with him.
He was by himself.
Virtually all Republicans hated him in 20s.
Paul Ryan hated him.
Mitch McConnell, well, nothing's changed there, but Mitch McConnell doesn't have the political power that he had back then.
The RNC didn't know what to do with him.
Ted Cruz refused to even endorse him at the Republican National Convention in the summer of 2016. This is a whole different...
Trump, this Trump 2.0, he has a whole Avenger team next to him.
And that, I think you nailed the head of the calculus.
If they can demonstrate, if they can show that the more they take down the administrative state, the more they drain the swamp, the better, in terms of material, the material goods of our lives, the better the material conditions of our lives become, that's it, it's over.
The moment...
Them going after the administrative state, and then our material conditions of our lives get worse, they'll cut it off.
People just generally have an allergic reaction to it.
That's what people need to see exactly.
They need to see their gas prices going down, grocery prices going down, 401Ks going up.
They need to see just this whole sense of churn, this dynamism that comes back into an economy that we saw, for example, in the Reagan years, that if they see that and connect that to the taking down of the deep state, deep state doesn't have a chance.
You know, again, hopeful skepticism is where I'm at.
And when the winds are coming, I'm high-fiving, and I'm not afraid to say it.
You know, again, I think good and evil exist.
I think there's going to be a constant battle.
Again, no utopias.
Hopefully no dystopias.
But where we have to hold them account is extremely important.
But boy, have promises been delivered.
The book, again, is Fight!
How Trump and the MAG movement are changing the world.
And you can check him out over at TurleyTalks.com.
A pleasure as always, Steve.
And a pleasure with you guys right here five days a week on Patriot.TV. Where the truth lives.
Remember this guy, it is not about left or right.
It is always about right and wrong.
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