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Jan. 15, 2025 - Info Warrior - Jason Bermas
56:59
Russiagate Exposed And Beyond
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Welcome to Making Sense of the Madness We've got a great show lined up for you today.
We've got author Hans Monke.
The book is Swift Boating America.
Exposing the Russiagate fraud, the Steele dossier, to the FBI's crossfire hurricane investigation.
You're not going to want to miss it.
Buckle up and get ready to make sense of the madness.
And we are joined by Hans Monke.
Now, you come from a legal background.
You have several law degrees.
You've written many books on that subject matter.
Give us a little background on yourself and why you chose this political subject matter for Swift Boating America.
You know, like many of us back in 2015-16, I was excited about Trump running.
Because I wanted someone to just kind of mix things up.
That was kind of the overall idea.
But I was not involved in any of this political stuff or whatever.
I was a law professor.
I was just teaching law.
I was doing legal books, as you mentioned.
You know, the more Trump kind of rose, the more interesting the whole thing became.
And at some point, it looked like he might actually win, which was fantastic.
And again, my overall thinking was that, you know, we kind of run into a dead end on so many levels that it needed someone to mix it up.
And so everything great, right?
And then we get to early 2017. And suddenly, the media is out there with this Russia collusion thing, which is absolutely ridiculous.
And, you know, I saw the Steele dossier, like everyone, I just read it, read the first few pages, and I just thought, what an absolute joke, this whole thing.
And my interest in all this grew over time.
And, you know, it ties in with my kind of legal background in a very particular way, which is the first...
The actual case brought with respect to all this Russia collusion nonsense was against a guy called George Papadopoulos, who had been a Trump advisor.
And again, at this point, you know, I wasn't on Twitter.
I wasn't doing social media.
I was just teaching some students, and that was kind of my life.
And then this George Papadopoulos case had actual court documents.
That was the first time we had actually something.
Actually tangible, not like some leaks or whatever in Washington Post or whatever, some real tangible stuff.
And what struck me right away looking at that, and this is again kind of, we're now in around 2018, mid-2018, that what Papadopoulos was saying in those court documents simply didn't match the facts, the known facts.
And that just perplexed me.
And that was kind of my opening door into all of this.
And then, you know, I was kind of off to the races after that.
We had so many things happening.
We had the Horowitz Report.
We had various other cases.
We had the Roger Stone case.
We had the Manafort cases.
I mean, so a lot of new materials coming in over time.
So I kind of, I wouldn't say I became sort of full-time into this, but it did start taking up a lot of my time.
Well, I would say that...
My attention was grabbed almost immediately after the election when the talking point was that Russia had hacked the election.
And a lot of people forget that because it becomes election interference and influence in social media.
But in the first couple of days, it wasn't clear what they were trying to purport.
People were asking, wait, did they hack the machines?
What are you talking about?
And then the language moved on, but it was always in that direction of Russia.
And again, Russia, I would say before the Trump administration comes in, had not been utilized as the boogeyman for some time.
In fact, a lot of our relationships had been somewhat normalized with Vladimir Putin and Russia up until that point.
And honestly...
If you look at the real evidence of who was dealing with Russia in particular, Hillary Clinton was!
You know, the Clintons are the ones that actually had dealings with oligarchs and Russia.
And then we had all these email leaks with Podesta and others saying, hey, let's accuse our enemies of what we're doing.
And then out of that, we get this entire narrative that Donald Trump You're absolutely right.
Back in 2012, Obama was criticizing Romney for talking about Russia.
Like, oh, you know, that's kind of yesterday.
We don't need to worry about that anymore.
We've got to go to 2014, where this kind of shift happens.
Obviously, you're absolutely right.
There's a lot more entanglements with Russia and Democrats than there ever were with Trump or Republicans.
But in 2014, something big happened in February of 2014, which was the coup in Ukraine.
And basically, Joe Biden sided with Western Ukrainians and overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine at that time.
From that time forward, Russia became the boogeyman.
And that is part of why Democrats, and in particular the Clinton campaign, chose Russia as the boogeyman here, with Trump being an agent of Putin.
Just saying that sounds so ridiculous, because it is.
It's over the...
I mean, I've seen the memes, too.
I mean, again, I'm not a big meme guy, but if you're on social media, you know, the one with, like, Vladimir Putin with, like, a little puppet of Trump in his lap, and I'm just thinking, what is this?
Have we devolved so much intellectually that anybody is believing this?
But yes, there was a large section...
Of the population that not only believed it, but proliferated it to a point where we get the Mueller investigation.
Now, I think there was kind of hopium on both sides.
You had the QAnon sense crowd and the white hat crowd and the fantasy crowd being like, no, Robert Mueller's going to get to the bottom of this and he's undercover working for Trump.
And then...
You had the other side of this saying, this is going to prove it all.
We're going to find out that he is a puppet of Putin, etc.
And I remember going through that report.
Now, prior to the report, we had that alleged GRU leak where they were showing individuals that were posting on social media and allegedly subverting individuals and narratives, etc.
They never proved that either.
When you went into this document, of course, there was no proof of collusion because it didn't occur.
But there were some interesting nuggets.
There were interesting nuggets on Papadopoulos that you just mentioned.
And there were also even interesting nuggets on WikiLeaks and the Seth Rich investigation where we find out, oh, the FBI does have documents on that investigation when they had denied it before.
What was your overall take from that entire period?
of the Russiagate investigation because we also can't forget when they actually put Mueller up there to speak.
He didn't know what was going on.
He was a figurehead the whole time.
He was basically signing off on whatever the establishment wanted to do and whatever narrative they wanted to set.
I mean, I knew right away that this guy was not your buddy.
This is a guy that came in.
Almost immediately after 9-11 as the director of the FBI, after being a long-standing asset to what I would call and many call the bureaucratic or deep state.
So what are your thoughts on the Mueller investigation and that period?
My thoughts on the Mueller investigation is that it needs to be invalidated.
So we might now think, oh, this is all many years ago and so on.
But there's a big problem with that.
The Smith report coming out, and then there's the Wise report coming out on Hunter Biden.
Those reports become part of the record, and then they're out there.
Long after we're gone, that's the official record.
The problem with the Mueller report, if that remains as the official record, is that it's just a lie.
The whole thing is a total lie.
Now, we might not be so unhappy with the end result.
The end result was kind of a...
A stalemate, like, oh, well, there was something there, but we couldn't charge him.
Let me stop you, because I think that's important.
Everybody got their narrative, right?
At one point, the right got their narrative where they didn't prove anything and there was no collusion, but then the left got their open-ended narrative that they just couldn't prove it, and it still looked like that was the case.
Continue.
Exactly right.
I don't think it's right to keep that kind of out there as the official end result.
So call it a stalemate, or maybe there was something there, but it was never proven, or some variation of that.
And that's just not good enough.
Because the biggest takeaway from this entire Russiagate saga, the most important thing, and this is also the essence of the book, is that...
There was absolutely nothing there.
Everything was completely fabricated.
Everything was made up.
And this is so important because we're almost conditioned to accept hoaxes as sort of, yeah, it's a hoax, but probably there was some kernel of truth somewhere, you know, where there's smoke, there's fire, all that.
A lot of people kind of just take that as a given that, oh, maybe Trump did some bad things at some point and then they just kind of exaggerated and looked out of proportion and maybe he did do something in Russia or maybe one of his people, Papadopoulos, whoever, maybe they did something and whatever.
Well, I can say that no one did anything wrong.
Everything was made up completely and entirely fabricated by the Clinton campaign and later on, you know, taken over by the FBI and then taken over by Mueller.
And this is such an important point to to realize about this whole scam.
Another aspect of this, as all of this is taking place, is that I would argue the better people within the Trump administration, not only are they being gone after, they're being eliminated from that administration.
Look, I think people like Steve Bannon, even General Michael Flynn have their issues.
But as far as people within that administration, they were much better than others.
And they were eliminated in short order.
You mentioned Papadopoulos.
You've got Manafort.
I mean, the list goes on down the line.
What's your assessment of that situation?
It really started with Flynn.
And I talk very extensively in the book about that.
How that came about, and it was planned, of course, and it really kneecapped Trump right at the get-go.
So Flynn was accused, falsely accused, of having talked about sanctions with the Russian ambassador in this interim period, in the transition period.
First of all, he was the incoming national security advisor.
He can talk to whoever he wants.
In fact, it's his job to talk to people like the Russian ambassador.
So even if he had talked about sanctions, So what?
That's his job.
But the truth is he never talked about sanctions.
They just made it up.
And then they accused him of lying about talking about sanctions.
And we never found out the truth until many years later when Sidney Powell managed to finally get the transcript of his call with the Russian ambassador.
Released by the DOJ, and finally they released it, and lo and behold, you go through the thing, and he never talked about sanctions.
So that entire thing that they did with Flynn was all made up.
It was a giant scam.
But unfortunately, that kind of set the tone.
It was very, very early on.
It was like a few weeks into the Trump administration, and he already had to fire his national security advisor because of Russia, right?
So at that point, the entire narrative is like shifts towards...
And, oh, there must be something there.
Otherwise, he wouldn't have fired the guy.
And just the whole kind of avalanche started from there.
And it was absolutely terrible.
And, you know, as I said, all of it made up.
I've said this a few times now, but this is so important.
No one did anything wrong.
This was all made up.
So when we talk about Flynn and we talk about that whole setup, You also have players like Biden pre-dementia as the vice president suggesting using the Logan Act.
Now, I've discussed the Logan Act for decades, but more in the realm of privatized meetings like Bilderberg, where there are national security advisors and senators and people that are U.S. government officials meeting behind closed doors with all of these power players in other governments and institutions.
At the same time, It has been used since, what, the 1800s?
And I would argue where I want to use it is valid in the manner they tried to use it against Flynn and this Russia, Russia, Russia nonsense was really beyond the pale.
Can you speak to that?
Absolutely.
And it was Biden's idea.
We know this from the handwritten notes taken by Comey.
So what happened is that...
Immediately after they started this phony Trump-Russia investigation, which was called Crossfire Hurricane, which, by the way, they knew.
This is another really important point.
They knew it was a Clinton campaign hoax.
So they should have been investigating the Clinton campaign, not the Trump campaign.
So this was the first fraud.
I would even say that that was treasonous.
So they started that, and Flynn immediately became one of their targets.
But they looked everywhere.
They did whatever they could just to try and dig up some dirt or even make up something.
That they could use against him, but there was nothing.
They couldn't do anything.
Until he had that phone call with the Russian ambassador when they decided they're just going to make stuff up.
So then they presented it to Obama and Biden on January 5th, 2017, in their dying days of their administration.
And Biden goes, yeah, go after him for the Logan Act.
And of course, Logan Act means doing diplomacy on behalf of the United States when you're a private person.
So first of all, I completely agree with you.
The law itself is ridiculous.
But even if we were to accept the premise of the law, General Flynn at the time was the incoming national security advisor.
He had a government-issued phone, which, by the way, that's not a good thing.
And I think this time around, the Trump transition team was much smarter.
They were like, no, we're not going to deal with you guys.
We're going to use our own equipment here.
He had a government email address.
He had a.gov government email address.
So how on earth can you accuse him of...
Any Logan Act violation, just on its face, absolutely absurd.
But nonetheless, what Comey did, Comey knew, Comey's a smart guy.
He might be a snake and all these kinds of things, but he's a smart guy.
He knew, okay, we can't do that.
But what he did do, just because it was immediately collapsed, everyone would laugh him out of court, even probably a D.C. court.
But what he did do is he took Joe Biden's Logan Act instructions to mean go after Flynn.
And that's exactly what he did.
And instead of the Logan Act, which he knew wasn't going to stand, he went with this phony story that Flynn had talked about, sanctions with the Russian ambassador, which again is entirely, absolutely untrue.
The book is Swift Boating America, Exposing the Russiagate Fraud from the Steele Dossier to the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane Investigation.
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back with more Making Sense of the Madness after this.
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Now, before we get into Crossfire Hurricane, when it initiates, what's the basis, what did they do?
Why did you call this Swift Boating America?
I'm curious because the last time that I had heard this term was way back in the day, Swift Boat Veterans against John Kerry.
I don't know that I'd heard it before that.
I don't know that I've heard it since that.
So could you take us into the title a little bit and then let's get into Crossfire.
That is such a good question.
The term swiftboating, as you say, came from the 2004 presidential campaign where John Kerry was swiftboated.
What that means is, well, John Kerry was a swiftboat commander in Vietnam.
Now, a bunch of people who had served with him in Vietnam accused him of very bad things, and they kind of banded together in 2004 and said, look, this guy should not be commander-in-chief because of his actions in Vietnam.
And they were called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
And so hence the verb was created of swift boating.
So swift boating someone means, you know, accusing them of all kinds of bad things.
The verb probably infers that those accusations are untrue.
But that's really not the point here.
The reason why I called the book Swift Boating America is because the Clinton campaign called the Trump-Russia collusion hoax their swift boating.
That was their name.
So they came up with it.
So you mentioned earlier these Podesta emails.
You can see, starting in February of 2016, so early on in that election year, they came up with this scheme to accuse Trump of being a Russian agent.
Every time I say that, it just sounds so stupid and so ridiculous.
And they called their project the Swiftboat project.
Let me just stop you really quick, and this is a great description.
I have to remind people that when those emails came out, the mainstream media, including Chris Cuomo who's currently getting a rebrand right now, told the American populace it was illegal for you to look at those documents.
And I want people to really feel the gravity of that because you know what they didn't do?
They didn't talk about those emails like we are and what Podesta was saying.
I mean, there was a slew.
Talk about Ukraine and corruption.
There was a ton of that in there as well.
Not a peep about...
Any of this stuff and how this was the setup for something that would be going on for years and, like you said, is still an established narrative in people's minds today.
Continue.
I'm sorry for the interruption.
No, not at all.
You're absolutely right.
And I think the important part, if people feel like, well, swift boating, John Kerry getting swift boated was totally deserved or was absolutely genuine and so on.
Yeah, you can make a very good argument for that.
But that's not the case, or not the point.
The point is that it was the Clinton campaign itself who called their project the Swift Boat project.
Now, of course, they wouldn't have been happy with what happened to John Kerry.
In their view, it was a horrible smear.
So what they're doing, and again, we're talking February 2016, really, really early on.
When they called their Trump-Russia project, the SWIFT vote project, what they were really doing is, we are going to smear this guy.
And that's exactly what they did.
You know, before we get into Crossfire Hurricane, its origins, etc., and really the narrative that they tried to portray to have that happen, just because you mentioned John Kerry, I would be remiss.
If I didn't, you know, point out the fact that John Kerry, you know, in 2004, when he ran against his, you know, second cousin on one side, ninth cousin on the other, was incredibly unpopular.
Here was another, like, manufactured candidate.
At that time period, really Howard Dean was the frontrunner.
And again, the media acted like because he lost one primary and said, yeah!
That was it for his career.
John Kerry...
For going along with whatever narratives and playing ball ran way more of the foreign policy of this past administration than Joe Biden ever could imagine to because Joe Biden wasn't running anything.
John Kerry was actually moving.
In fact, there's a video out there, folks, of both of them at some globalist United Nations summit.
John Kerry's wide awake.
Joe Biden's asleep.
I mean, that should let you know.
Everything you need to know.
So even before that, can you kind of speak to that establishment politician that sticks around and plays ball together?
because again at the end of the day Trump doesn't get in in 2020 and a lot of these agendas that were part of the Biden administration you would have imagined would have been part of a Clinton administration had it gone in were very much a part of this last administration that most people now acknowledge had a puppet president and obviously a vice president that didn't do anything either Hans.
Yeah no you're absolutely right and To me, it was sort of the Empire Strikes Back in 2020 where they just pulled out all the stops.
They did everything humanly possible from...
You know, we talk about COVID origin some other time.
There's lots of theories on, well, it came out of a lab, but, you know, beyond that.
But Trump was hit with that.
But irrespective of where it came from and why it came and so on, obviously he was inundated with massive criticism.
And that was all, you know, orchestrated.
Even though he was just doing what Fauci said.
That's always overlooked here.
But then you had the mail-in ballots.
Then you had the half a billion from Zuckerberg going to local elections officials in areas that Democrats wanted to run up their tally.
You had so many very weird things going on.
You had the electoral law changes, kind of last minute, unapproved.
And in retrospect, you have 10 million votes that you didn't get in 2024. Just magically there.
Weird.
You had an all-out effort to get rid of Trump.
Everyone.
The institutions, the media, the bureaucracy.
Time magazine wrote a piece on it where they talked about fortifying the election on a cover story where they admit that they towed the line almost to illegal, but not quite, to get him out of there in a conspiracy of many behind the scenes.
I mean, it's published fact.
And despite all that, Trump lost by 40,000 votes.
Even if we accept everything was, you know, above board, which of course it wasn't.
But let's just assume that Trump lost by 40,000 votes across three states.
That's nothing.
That can turn one way or the other very easily.
So it was a monumental effort, I thought, on Trump's part against with all the winds blowing against him in a horribly orchestrated way and so on.
And I think because of COVID, they were able to get away with it.
But of course, in 2024, that was no longer possible.
So there was kind of a realignment.
So those four years are total aberration.
It's literally when the elites got to have like one last hurrah and they got their guy in there and their guy totally messed everything up because he just wasn't up to the job.
And the people pulling the strings, well, they weren't very good either.
So it really exposed...
How bad these people are.
In a way, I honestly think that Trump was meant to lose.
It ended up being a good thing.
Because those four years exposed Democrats, the media, all of those institutions as well, as such either incompetent or bad actors, whatever you want to call them.
I mean, it was just bad, bad, bad.
Everything was exposed.
And that wouldn't have happened had Trump won in 2020. So he has a much stronger mandate now than he would have had had he won in 2020. Well, I certainly agree with you that the COVID-1984 nightmare woke up a lot of people to the fact that they were at least being lied to.
You know, I'm not left or right.
In fact, I've been politically homeless 20-plus years.
I've still voted for this guy three times.
You know, I think that he has his problems.
He has his issues.
I think this incoming administration, there are some picks that I really like and I'm expecting a lot, but I always have to hold these people's feet to the fire because I don't think that we can just accept narratives and rhetoric.
We need actual action.
I also understand how difficult that can be when you have the massive forces of the military-industrial complex and the intelligence apparatus opposing you in the vast majority.
Of your agenda.
And that really brings us to this, you know, next thing.
Crossfire hurricane.
Now, I've documented that when the NSA wants you, they got you.
You know, we've talked about Snowden and people just realizing they were spying on American citizens.
You can go back pre-9-11.
They had Norris Insight Systems in every single telecommunications center, siphoning off.
Every single communication to the NSA. This came out in Hepting versus AT&T. It was twice thrown out of court.
However, over the years, through the Bush administration, through the Barack Obama administration, they further legitimized it.
And they certainly legitimized spying on American citizens, on American soil, through the FISA courts.
And that was a huge, huge thing when we are talking about Crossfire Hurricane and getting this thing going.
So we've got to take a quick break.
When we come back, I want you to lay out the steps that they took and the narrative that they sold to get.
These FISA warrants and really what they did with this information.
It is making sense of the madness.
The book is Swift Boating America.
We'll be back after this.
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Hey folks, it's your buddy John Rich here and co-founder of Old Glory Bank.
Let me ask you a question.
Why would you trust your banking with people that hate you?
Well, you shouldn't.
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And we are back.
So give it to us.
The origins of Crossfire Hurricane and really what they said it was doing and what it was actually doing.
Very good question.
And there are some data points out there.
So we probably still don't know 100%, but we have enough pieces of the puzzle to at least know what shouldn't have been done and what probably happened.
So as we already talked about, the Clinton campaign cooked up this scheme to portray President Trump as a Russian agent.
And then they hired these political operatives.
Who in turn hired Christopher Steele.
And the operation kind of took off.
And then they tried to feed that story to the media.
And they also fed it.
This is the important part here in terms of your question.
They also fed it to the FBI. So Steele got instructions to not Make up a story.
The story had been made up by the Clinton camp.
Steele's instructions were to just write down the story in his own words and in a form of a dossier so that, you know, the FBI would be highly impressed by it.
If you look at the actual dossier, it looks like an absolute joke.
But be that as it may, Steele did as he was told, and then he gave the dossier to the FBI in early July of 2016. So there's one.
Firm origin point.
That happened.
He gave it to the FBI. We have other origin points where Peter Strzok, the lead investigator on Crossfire Hurricane, was talking in his text messages about his investigations into Trump before Crossfire Hurricane opened.
There were existing investigations.
We never found out exactly what form they took.
I mean, my assumption is they were off-the-book investigations.
So when we got to the end of July of 2016, They formalized it.
The FBI formalized these existing investigations, which I think were probably off the book.
They already had the dossier.
They had various other input.
And the most important input in terms of what they should have done is that they were told by the CIA. Now, why the CIA told them?
I think as a CYA. The CIA found out that Hillary Clinton had some intercepted communications.
They found out that Hillary Clinton had concocted this entire hoax.
That was her campaign smear.
And at that point, of course, you just can't take any of it seriously anymore.
If anything, you start investigating the Clinton campaign.
So this was on July 28, 2016. And yet, and I don't think this is a coincidence, within three days of this information being shared, that the whole thing is a Clinton hoax, The FBI opens its investigation into Trump.
So that's kind of an overview of what we know about the beginnings of it.
So what we can say 100% is that it started before it officially started.
As to who was pulling the strings and what exactly Strzok was talking about, hopefully we'll still find out when more of this stuff gets declassified.
So let's talk about the lawfare aspects in the long range against Trump.
Now, I would argue that obviously they didn't have anything damning on this guy or would have come out during the 2016 primaries.
Forget about all the way up to him getting the nomination.
And look, Trump...
I would say probably the biggest target on him was the fact that he was pretty well known for liking the ladies.
He was on wife number three.
He had cheated on them, etc.
They had the Stormy Daniels scandal, but nothing that they could bring into the arena of criminal law during that time period.
He gets in.
We've got two Imagination Land impeachments.
We've got talk of civil and criminal trials.
Post-2020, you've got the ludicrous E. Gene Carroll case.
You've got a case where a judge literally tried to shut his entire financial operation down in New York, and he had to get a bond from another billionaire just to get that back.
And of course, you have the criminal trial, which he was convicted in, 34 felonies, that we are still waiting on sentencing.
If and when it's ever going to occur.
In the long run, although there are, you know, a couple high fives and victories with the E.G. and Carroll thing and the Johnny nonsense, they don't have anything on this guy.
Period.
They don't got anything on him.
I mean, and look.
I don't think this guy's a saint by any means.
This is a guy that built hotels and casinos in Atlantic City.
Anybody who thinks you do that without organized crime in New Jersey is a little slow.
He was a guy who was making massive buildings, again, construction in New York City.
Again, if you don't think you have to deal with aspects of organized crime, you're absolutely ludicrous.
They still couldn't find anything.
So when you look at that arc of the lawfare waged against Trump, obviously there were some successives via the narrative, but not enough not to get him elected this time around, and certainly not enough to stop him from running, stop him from winning, or put him in jail.
So where do you see that arc?
First of all, I completely agree with you.
He's the most scrutinized person who's ever lived.
And yet they never found anything.
I mean, just look at the laughable stuff that they went with, like a bookkeeping error on the New York case.
I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous stuff.
The Gene Carroll thing really, really irks me in a way that, as a lawyer, it's probably worse, because what they did is New York retrospectively changed their law so that you can go after people for something they supposedly did 30 years ago.
No evidence!
With literally no physical evidence.
Not a picture.
Not an eyewitness account.
Not a videotape.
Literally on the word of a severely mentally ill, failed, hollyweird actress that, by the way, went on Anderson Cooper and said she thinks rape is sexy.
Like, that's how crazy that woman is.
And again...
Go and look into it.
Everything I said is real.
There was not one piece of physical or forensic evidence that would have tied Trump to that crime in any manner.
You're right.
And just changing the law, I mean, there's a reason we have these statutes of limitation, which mean that after around, usually it's five years, you can't bring a case anymore.
Even if at some point in history there was evidence, you no longer have it.
You no longer have all the stuff that you would have had 5 or 10 or, in Trump's case, 25, 30 years ago.
It's one of the most unfair things that has ever happened.
You just don't do that.
Not even some third-world country does that, where they retroactively change the law to go after someone for something they supposedly did 30 years ago.
That one was really, really bad.
But on the other hand, it also shows us that they have nothing.
They have absolutely nothing.
Now, if we skip back to or rewind back here to 2016, the FBI picked up this Clinton scam, this Clinton-Swiftboat project, and took it up on their own, and they called it Crossfire Hurricane Investigation, knowing it was a Clinton scam.
But they went ahead with it anyway.
And they knew that they couldn't go after Trump because...
There wasn't anything.
So what they did is they went after his advisors.
They picked out a bunch of people.
We already talked about Flynn, Manafort, Papadopoulos.
There was also a guy called Carter Page.
And then they started spying on those people and digging into those people, just trying to find anything incriminating against those people.
And when I'm talking about incriminating, it didn't have to do with Russia or whatever.
Just anything at all.
In terms of Manafort, they ended up with some tax stuff, which has nothing to do with Trump or Russia.
That was their plan.
And the idea was to then squeeze these people and get them to say bad stuff about Trump in exchange for getting leniency.
The only one...
That this plan of theirs worked with was Michael Cohen, Trump's lawyer.
So they came up with, he was involved in some taxi medallion schemes, completely extraneous stuff.
Again, it has nothing to do with Russia or Trump or anything.
And then they said, well, we're not going to charge you for this, or we're going to charge you with less or whatever, but you've got to say very bad stuff about Trump.
Which he happily did, and the others did not.
One can only imagine if the others had done that.
So this is the distinction between singing, when you're actually saying what happened because you're under pressure, or composing, you make it up.
So other than Michael Cohen, no one composed.
Just imagine if these other characters, they squeezed so many people.
They had said, well, I don't really want any of this kind of trouble.
I'm just going to make stuff up.
I'm just going to, yeah, sign here, whatever.
It might have turned out different if you'd had a whole bunch of people.
But luckily, they stuck to the truth.
Now that we have a second Trump administration incoming, I think he is a little bit wiser.
I think some of the picks are much better.
RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard.
We'll see how Kash Patel does.
At the same time, I'm not holding my breath on any criminal prosecutions.
There's a certain hero worship and hollyweird worship and pop culture, hey, these are the good guys, narrative surrounding people like Peter Strzok or Vindman, for instance.
Both of which...
Actually took part in a war game that got a documentary.
I don't know if you've seen it.
It's called War Game.
From the war game they ran in, I believe, January 6th, 2023. Where this time, the insurrection, that never happened by the way, includes members of the National Guard who turn and are being directed by Steve Bannon and Roger Stone type characters.
One of which is being played by William Crystal, the lovely neocon warmonger that just can't get enough death, in my opinion.
What do we do about these people?
Because I'm not in La La Land, man.
You know, I know there's a lot of people out there.
I had Giuliani on the program, you know, maybe a couple months ago.
His new book is about the Biden crime cartel.
And like right out of the gates, the premise...
Or the idea that any of these people are going to jail.
I just go, Rudy, you know that's not going to happen.
And then I just go into examples.
We haven't had any type of accountability on an executive level really since Iran-Contra.
You could argue Scooter Libby.
Trump got, you know, pinned for the Enron scandal, but he was far from the orchestrator of that.
You know, he was basically the guy they pushed aside and said, hey, this is the dude.
And Trump pardoned his ass, okay?
So we haven't had, and even when you look at Iran-Contra, a bunch of their sentences were commuted or pardoned.
They made Oliver North the face of that.
What did Oliver North get?
Radio shows?
Book deals?
Millions of dollars.
That's not how you discourage that type of quote-unquote deep state behavior.
So when we are talking about this incoming administration and actual accountability and actual prosecutions, is there any hope?
If so, where is that hope?
Who needs to be prosecuted?
And, you know, the other aspect of that is...
If we're not going to get the type of criminal justice that we should and I expect we won't shouldn't we at least get mass declassification so that we can get into the arena of truth and accountability for future generations?
I'm going to have your commentary on all that after this final break.
The book is Swift Boating America, Exposing the Russiagate Fraud from the Steele dossier to the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane.
You can get it on Amazon.com right now.
Final segment of Making Sense of the Madness after this.
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Now, Hans, I know I hit you with a ton of stuff right before that.
You know, from the accountability train will last 40 years to what we can expect from this administration and declassification.
Where do you sit on all of those issues?
Yeah, no, those were very, very good points.
Now, ironically, you know, we talked earlier about E. Jean Carroll and they changed the law in order to go after Trump by...
Getting rid of the statute of limitations so that you can charge things which happened 30 years ago.
So ironically, with Russiagate, you'd need to do that in order to go after many of these characters because most of this stuff is now older than five years.
Now, I wish people like William Barr, he was meant to sort of bring light to all this.
He didn't do it.
Let me stop you there with Bill Barr.
You know...
When people were telling me Bill Barr or even Durham was coming to save the day, I laughed in their face.
Bill Barr is an establishment CIA guy that was Central Intelligence Agency before he was a lawyer.
He was CIA two years before he actually passes the Barr exam.
Then...
He becomes the youngest attorney general ever, not under Trump, but under the first Bush administration, deep state central.
In fact, when you get into Iran-Contra, if you don't think George Herbert Walker Bush was helping run that operation, you ain't looked into it.
And then you see what he does in his private practices.
He works for Kirkland and Ellis, who were part of the Epstein law team.
I mean, this guy literally...
On the record, before that Epstein arrest in 2017, said he might have to recuse himself from anything Epstein because of his work with Kirkland and Ellis.
Yeah, I didn't trust him.
And as a caveat to that, when we got that narrative about the Hunter Biden laptop, guess what?
The Department of Justice and Bill Barr had it for 10 months before that letter by other intelligence officers saying it was fake Russian disinformation and he did nothing with it.
And let me make another point on top of that.
I'm sorry I'm ranting and raving, but it just gets me so damn mad.
Forget about the Hunter Biden laptop.
How about the Wiener laptop that we never got to see?
That guy got a slap on the wrist in a country club, not because they investigated that laptop, but because one of his 15-year-old victims kept records of their Skype conversations.
You think those conversations weren't on the laptop you never heard about?
Of course they were!
Of course they were!
So putting your money on Bill Barr or Durham...
I mean, again, you're in fantasy world, in my opinion.
I'm sorry.
I'll let you go.
The trouble is that all these characters, Durham, Barr, Horowitz, they all let the clock run out.
And now we're beyond the five years.
So it's going to be very difficult bringing any criminal accountability.
There is one avenue, and I don't want to spend too much time on this.
But basically, you're looking for things that were done within the past five years.
And one of the things that was done within the past five years, so we haven't gone over that time limit yet, is the FBI hid This fake source of the Steele dossier.
Steele had come up with this guy, a Russian guy called Igor Danchenko, whom he could blame.
So if anyone told or blamed Steele for making up these stories or for printing stuff that wasn't true, he could just say, well, I got it from this Russian guy.
Well, the FBI interviewed this Russian guy in 2017, and he told them, look, you know, this is all completely baseless.
This is just gossip.
This is just barroom talk from my friends back in Russia.
You know, it means nothing.
So, of course, that was very, very bad for the whole narrative.
So they hid the guy.
They literally hid him within the FBI kind of hierarchy by designating him as a confidential human source.
And at that point...
He was gone.
Any inquiries by Congress, by anyone else, they could just say, no, no one like that exists here.
And hiding the guy whom they knew had blown up the entire hoax, that is a crime that went on all the way into 2020, into at least July, August of 2020. So we still have a few months here if Kash Patel or Pan Bondi, if they want to do something.
That's the angle that you've got to take.
But beyond that, I completely agree with you.
At this point, it's worth more just to have everything out there, just put it all on the table, get it all out, declassify everything, so at least the truth is captured for the sake of history.
And one thing on top of that that I would pursue is I would get this Mueller report invalidated.
I would get the entire investigation legally invalidated.
And for that, we don't even need any declassification.
We already have everything we need.
Because you remember earlier we mentioned this guy, Carter Page, and you mentioned the FISA warrants they had on him and so on.
Well, the Carter Page FISA warrants were invalidated by a court.
It was the chief judge of the FISA court who said, this is all rubbish, the FBI lied, the FBI concealed, and so on.
He invalidated all of that.
Well, here's the thing.
The exact reasons, the exact story they told The FISA court to get the warrants for Carter Page is the exact story they told Congress to get the Mueller investigation.
So if one is invalid, then the other has to be invalid.
So I would go after that or pursue that goal as well because I think it's important for history to have that report kind of just gone, totally invalidated, null and void, no more.
A court found this to be totally, well, illegally formed, unlawfully created.
It shouldn't have happened in the first place.
I think that's important because, again, one day after, we're all long gone.
These reports will still be out there, and then people will think, oh, maybe there was something to it, and there is nothing to it.
There never was.
They just made it all up.
Christopher Wray has announced his resignation with the incoming Trump administration.
Now, I know you put this book out in October, but one of the things that we haven't discussed is the fact we've had two assassination attempts on the president.
I think there's a possibility of something else.
Coming down the pike, I hope that I'm wrong.
We were literally inches away from watching the ex-president get his head blown off on live television yet again.
Well, I would say this is the first time on live television.
It didn't happen.
I think there are a ton of questions when it comes to that first incident.
And yes, the second incident as well.
Where do you think those investigations go?
Because do we have a system that's just so walled off and really something that succumbs to these plausible deniability circles that you just kind of alluded to with Russiagate that we aren't going to learn the truth at all and there will be no accountability?
Or can this Trump administration get in there and maybe dig a little deeper and let the public know what may have actually happened?
I mean, I don't even know what the court trials are looking like for this Ralph guy, right?
And we've got like no media coverage on either of it.
It's been downplayed like no other thing.
So I'd love to get your take on that.
The problem with all those things is you're going to have to, you have so many things going on at the same time.
I mean, hopefully Kash Patel is going to get in.
So when he gets in.
He has a ton of things that he has to look at.
You know, he's got the Russiagate, he's got the January 6th, he's got the FBI itself.
I mean, you had Christopher Wray out there the other day saying that he'd hired, what was it, like 8,000, just a huge number of agents.
Well, what sort of people did he hire and what are they going to do now?
This is such a huge...
Problem in and of itself, that you have to clean out your agency, your department, your institution.
Same for DOJ. I mean, DOJ, during the entire first kind of Trump presidency, they were working against Trump.
People forget, for instance, just an example, Douglas Mackey, the guy who put out the meme, and then they jailed him for putting out a meme on Twitter.
That guy, that wasn't, Biden pulled the trigger as soon as Biden came in, but that whole case was prepared by a Trump appointee.
Let me stop you on that, but just to, because I've done a lot of casework on the Mackey case, and I don't know if you really looked into it because it's beyond the meme.
It was really about a network that was successful.
Of shifting narratives.
And what was most disturbing about that case to me is that they brought in an individual to testify against Mackey named Microchip, which they let testify as Microchip under complete anonymity.
It was never distinguished what he was charged with.
But he had turned over to the FBI in January of 2018. I've done a lot of work on this case.
If you haven't, you really need to.
Because it shows why...
I mean, the meme was one thing.
The fact that they were very, very successful in propagating narratives that they didn't like pre-QAnon with Pizzagate, etc.
They didn't like that.
And then Microchip actually said that he was the progenitor.
Of the original posts on 4chan that would become QAnon, and that came out of DEF CON. So, to me, they targeted people that, yeah, were they probably breaking the law on some level with sock puppet accounts, etc.?
Sure.
But at the same time, they didn't like that they were successful.
And they didn't like that they were able to push a candidate.
And that's a problem, because...
The establishment's allowed to lie whenever they want.
And it's been proven time and time again that government agencies are colluding with big tech companies, that censorship is happening on their behalf.
And I would argue it's even beyond that with the signature reduction program that I'm not sure you're aware about.
Look into signature reduction.
It is America's secret military that has run operations here for over a decade.
There's 60,000 of them.
And Newsweek.
Did a great article on it.
I'll email it to you after the broadcast.
We got about 90 seconds left in the show.
What would you like to leave my audience with, and how can they support you and get the book?
I'll just say a couple of words here about the Mackie issue.
The case was prepared.
It was all kind of, all the paperwork, everything was done by a guy called Seth Ducharme.
He was supposedly a Trump appointee.
By the way, Seth Ducharme was also sent by Bill Barr to be the chaperone of John Durham.
So the overarching point I was making there was you have all these bad apples.
So when the new people come in, when the new administration comes in, before they can even think about investigating this, that, and the other, or looking at this or that investigation, they've got to look at the people.
And there are so many bad apples that they're going to have to deal with.
I think that's going to be the first, should be the first task that they do.
Because if we go back to 2017, it was having all these people in there who undermined everything, who sabotaged anything.
That was sort of the big failure.
That is where it all kind of started falling apart.
In terms of the book, so you can go to swiftboatingamerica.com or you can just go to Amazon and find it there.
The idea of the book was to, all these things we talked about, was to sort of capture them.
Because a lot of these stories exist on Twitter in the form of thousands of tweets or, you know, in various different places.
And it just brings it all together in one place.
And you don't have to take my word for it.
There's over 600 footnotes in there, most of them to primary sources.
So you can just go to the actual original document, whatever it may be, maybe a court document, maybe a FOIA release or whatever.
And, you know, text messages we talked about.
It's all there.
And, yeah, you know, thanks for having me on.
Absolutely.
We're big on the source material here, and we love a good bibliography.
Thank you so much for joining us, Hans.
And thank you guys for watching this show five days a week here on Patriot.tv, where the truth lives.
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