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July 20, 2023 - Info Warrior - Jason Bermas
59:36
The Deep State Exposed And AI Unveiled with Kash Patel and Bob Muglia | MSOM Ep. 789

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Time Text
FBI And Elections Collusion 00:15:01
Welcome to Making Sense of the Madness.
I am Jason Burmese and get ready to talk to the deep state and data preneurs.
We've got Kash Patel and we've got Bob Muglia here to make sense of the madness.
buckle up.
Why would the FBI offer Christopher Steele a million dollars to verify a dossier about Trump-Russian collusion and then the same FBI offer three million dollars to Twitter to squash a story on the Hunter Biden laptop?
Do you have any idea why a law enforcement agency would be playing into elections?
Well, you raised a number of different issues there.
So first, as to the steel dossier, that, of course, is a subject treated at great length in the Durham report, which we, and again, predates my time as director.
I understand that, but it was the same agency paying a million dollars to push one story out or try to collaborate one story and three million dollars to quiet another story for political opponents.
I don't understand.
And then I would, as to the second part related to Twitter, I would disagree with your characterization respectfully.
When there are payments to social media companies, that is by long-standing federal law going back, I think, about four decades, where we have to pay companies for their costs in responding to legal process.
And it's not just social media companies, it's other kinds of businesses as well.
Well, when those stories get out, and you understand, and certainly the dossier story, and I know that went under your watch, but also the Hunter Biden laptop story, that, to me, looks political.
To the American people, it looks political.
And I'm just an everyday guy.
I'm not an attorney, Mr. Ray.
Just an everyday guy.
But to me, it looks extremely political.
And that is why you're having trouble keeping the FBI's reputation afloat.
The deep state on full display.
We pay companies for four decades to censor information.
We take care of their legal fees.
No problemo.
Chris Ray of the cover-up crew getting grilled yesterday, and rightfully so.
However, will there be any accountability?
Unfortunately, I believe that is doubtful in its current state.
We saw no accountability through Barr and Durham to talk about that.
And much more, he is the author of Government Gangsters, The Deep State, The Truth, and the Battle for Our Democracy.
It is Kash Patel.
Cash, let's kick it off with your opinion on how Chris Ray did yesterday and just that small snippet because I could have played clips all day long.
Well, thanks for having me back on the program.
It's great to be with you.
Look, Chris Ray is a tier one government gangster.
That's what I call him in my book.
But to answer your question, the reason he is such is because he has continued to lie under oath to Congress, continued to have an FBI that rigs presidential elections.
Whether you're talking about Hunter Biden's laptop or the coverage of the Steele dossier or how he treats whistleblowers and retaliates against them or how he pads statistics falsely so he can go tell Congress that domestic violent terrorism tied to Donald Trump in January 6th is on the rise.
That's the media narrative they want.
This man has no credibility.
The FBI does have credibility.
And look, I don't know that this Congress is going to act, but that's why, you know, you just got to start doing things yourself.
And that's why we finally forced them to start investigating Christopher Wray and Merrick Garland for unlawfully surveilling me when I was running the Russian Gate investigation.
We just broke that news last night.
And so you have to force the American people to pay attention to things that are going to force the levers of Congress to act.
They've had six months to write it on their own, and they have not produced any impeachment proceedings against Christopher Wray, one of the most dangerous law enforcement personnel figures in U.S. history.
So now we got to do it.
So as somebody who's been openly targeted by the FBI and somebody who has been in the depths of this investigation, is there a frustration on your part that you're not able to criminally go after these criminals?
Look, as a former federal prosecutor and public defender, there's no greater personal frustration for me, having applied the law uniformly when I was in Obama's Justice Department.
I didn't care who the president was.
The law was the law and the facts were the facts.
But when you have this complete two-tier system of justice that Merrick Garland and Chris Ray and others have set up along with Rod Rosenstein before them, and the only way to destroy it is to seize back the White House and put personnel in that are going to be FBI directors and attorney generals that are going to do the job.
But until we get there, what we must do is impeach them so we can get the evidence out to the American public through the public trial process at Congress.
I don't know if they'll impeach Christopher Wray, but I hope so.
But the accountability that we can hope for right now, because we're not going to get the convictions and federal charges that we want.
But what we can demand from Congress is public hearings, not like the one we saw for Showcase, but subpoenas that produce the evidence and the documentation of the corruption between, let's just go back to your clip, big tech.
Big tech colluded with the FBI and the FBI paid them and had an 80-member task force in the last election cycle alone to meet with Twitter and Facebook and others every week to talk censorship.
That is the definition of election rigging.
Those are our taxpayer dollars going to the FBI to stifle elections.
Congress can immediately seize that money in the appropriations process and the fencing process.
They should ground Chris Ray's government-funded G5 jet so he can't stop going around on government-funded vacations paid for by the American taxpayer.
And more importantly, they should take the money that allows Congress and FBI to pay these big tech corrupt criminal syndicates over at Twitter and Facebook from rigging presidential elections.
They're using our money to do it.
It's not their money at Congress.
It's ours, and they can take it.
I just don't know if any one of these Republicans in Congress has the guts to get together and seize that money.
I'm not saying to fund the FBI.
I've never said that.
But you can take some pieces of some funding, like I've just highlighted, and grind them to a halt until they produce the documentation.
Chris Ray has six subpoenas from Congress that I counted outstanding in regards to documents he has not given the Congress on FBI whistleblowers, on Hunter Biden's laptop on January 6th, and the list goes on.
So I want to get back to accountability in a moment, but I also want to discuss the importance of the court of public opinion that you were talking about.
One of the greatest illustrations to me was when Tucker Carlson started showing video of the Muffin Man, aka Jacob Chancely, the QAnon shaman, being led around by authorities within days.
All of a sudden, his sentence was commuted to a halfway house and he was out.
That shows you the power of video and the media outside of the court system.
However, how do we bring a court system of accountability in?
You talked about the big tech collusion.
I would argue these big tech companies have always been Trojan horse civilian systems for the military industrial complex.
For instance, we now have an article over two years ago by Newsweek talking about America's secret military, a program known as an art form, aka signature reduction, where we have over 60,000 people in different arenas under different guises in military uniform and outside in different personas and in some of the biggest companies out there.
Now, this just scratches the surface, Cash.
As you know, you had former CIA, NSA, and FBI personnel in all the social media companies.
So is there a true way out there for reform?
For DOD or FBI, or I'm not following.
I'm for the accountability process within our tech system and our military industrial complex.
When you have people who work in the FBI and also work in this arena, and then you have signature reduction, which is now over a decade old.
If you're not familiar with it, I'd have you check it out.
But we've never had a hearing on it.
So we don't know who are these clandestine officers that aren't working for the FBI or the NSA or the CIA, but instead they're contracted, much like the CIA would do with their assets.
And this is an open government program.
And these people are in the biggest tech companies out there.
Well, former FBI, DOD, CIA, NSA employees are scattered throughout the defense industrial complex and big tech companies.
The number two at Twitter, the number two lawyer at Twitter was James Baker, the former FBI general counsel that was on Chris Ray's payroll as general counsel until we fired him or got him fired because of his corrupt activity during Russia Gate.
So it's no surprise that these people are over there and then reaching back to their former colleagues to collaborate on how to take down, for instance, President Trump or prevent him from being president.
So it's no doubt in my mind that they did it.
We proved it.
And of course, they're doing it again.
I think the larger question is, why don't Congress act to subpoena the records of these companies, the bank records, the money doesn't lie.
It's pretty simple.
Whether you use video or paper, it doesn't matter to me.
Numbers are numbers.
And either you got paid or you didn't.
And if the U.S. Treasury paid you through Congress and the FBI, then we should know about it.
And we should get all the names and find out who was actually doing lawful work and who was doing unlawful work.
And as we've seen through Chris Ray's tenure at the FBI, most of it regarding election security, election fraud, election integrity, even chasing down criminals that were purported domestic violent terrorists, all is a lie to break presidential elections, especially once he wants to be in the business of suppressing key pieces of information, i.e. the Hunter Biden laptop investigation.
The world could have known about it, but the FBI intentionally suppressed it.
They were too busy meeting and colluding with big tech in their private meetings to tell them, wink, wink, nod, nod, don't put that out.
That's pro-Trump.
But please put out this.
It's pro-Biden.
And we all know and see it and this farce that they keep coming back with, oh, Christopher Wray, I'm a conservative.
How dare you say?
You're not a conservative.
You're a political hack in the swamp who will do anything to keep his job.
The fact that you have to highlight to the world that you are or were a conservative shows us how much you have caved to the Biden agenda and the radical left media just to keep your job.
You're the same as Millie.
You're the same as Austin.
You're the same as Mayorkis.
You're the same as all these other government gangsters that I talk about in my book.
And until we wipe out this personnel, it doesn't matter who goes into what private sector job unless we have leaders at our government agencies that are willing to go after them.
Well, that's interesting because we're in an election cycle right now.
And I don't see, I know that you speak on the Reawaken America tour.
I do at times as well.
And there's a large focus on election integrity.
I don't know that we've cleaned up the system.
And right now we're having our first town halls in Iowa.
What do you see during the 2024 election cycle?
Are we going to have free and fair elections?
Do we have a system right now with the voting machines and really the lack of audits, let's say, in the system of having a free and fair election?
But look, it's pretty simple to me.
And President Trump's been saying it right from jump.
Go out and ballot harvest.
That's the rule.
I don't care about voting machines and anything else.
The left spends their money on ballot harvesting.
And that's how they won the election in all these states across America.
And so if we are not willing to engage in what is the rule of law in most states and the states that matter, my home state, Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, the ones that are going to decide the next presidential election, then we have no one to blame but ourselves.
If we don't get our ground game together, and we cannot rely on the RNC or anyone else to do it for us.
But the fact that President Trump has been brave enough to go out there and take on what has not been traditionally a conservative talking point about ballot harvesting, his point is clear.
Would you rather wake up in 2025 in January and inaugurate President Trump and know that you are being represented in Washington for eight of every 10 values you have or share with the people that helped put Donald Trump there?
Or do you want to wake up with Joe Biden there and say, we're getting 0 for 10 every day for the next four years?
That's it.
It's really that simple.
And if people want to complicate matters, that's fine.
I'm not an election ballot machine expert or election anything.
It's really simple.
Go get the votes in your state, drop them off at the ballot box and get that people registered to vote and convince them that voting Republican lawfully is the right thing to do.
And our values, our system is way better.
Who is against border protection?
Who's against killing terrorists?
Who's against safeguarding our children, not force-feeding them BS education theories?
Who's against men and men's sports and women and women's sports?
I know there are people that will say, oh, we're against it, but the majority of Americans are not.
The majority of Americans do not want to go into another 20-year war in the Ukraine.
President Trump courageously let us out of the forever wars.
They want that diplomatic engagement to return to the White House.
And we know we have the better policy, so we can't sit on our butts.
We have to go out there and collect the votes and ensure that Donald Trump's the next president.
That's how you do it.
And then if you win and you want to change the rule, then you can.
But right now we can't.
What do you say to somebody like me that says there's still a large obstacle in the way of Trump actually getting the nomination for the Republicans?
Because there's a widespread rhino mainstream media movement to try to portray him either as a criminal or someone we need to move on from because he's just too controversial.
It seems to me, at least on the establishment side, they'd much rather run a Ron DeSantis.
Well, the establishment would, of course, much rather run a Ron DeSantis or anyone else.
But whether you believe polls or not, these polls can't lie with this much disparity.
I don't care if 50 points has come down to 25 points.
A four-point win is a monster win.
And now we're looking at polls that are averaging 30 and 40 points in Ron's home state and across the board.
And so I look, Donald Trump's going to be the Republican nominee.
Making Sense of AI Sentience 00:15:07
There's nothing that's going to stand in his way.
He is dominating the landscape because he is dominating the policy agenda that conservatives want to see.
He's putting out weekly on Truth Social videos on education, healthcare, border reform, China, Russia, Iran, what we're going to do in the Ukraine, and men and women sports.
He is just doing it on every issue of consequence.
So I don't see a single problem with Donald Trump going forward.
I see a lot of problems with the other Republican candidates.
Now, they might get together and try to take Donald Trump out, but they tried to do that the last two times and it didn't work because Americans have responded to the new Republican Party that Donald Trump has created and have retired the old one of Paul Ryan and Liz Cheney and Ron DeSantis and Chris Christie and anyone else who's out there thinking they want to go back to the old ways.
We don't want the old ways.
We don't live in the past.
We live in this present and future.
And that's what Donald Trump stands for.
He is the author of Government Gangsters.
We've got to take a break, but when we come back, we're going to dive deeper into the deep state.
This is Making Sense of the Madness, and I am Jason Burmiss.
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call kirk elliott phd at 720-605-3900 now joining us is the author of the datapreneurs the promise of ai and the creators building our future He is Bob Muglia.
Bob, tell us about the book.
Why'd you write it and what's in it?
Well, first, Jason, it's good to be here.
I had a long career around incredible people.
I worked with a lot of incredible entrepreneurs my whole life.
And really, my role throughout all of my career has been to facilitate these brilliant people, these brilliant technologists, and helping them to build businesses and build products that people want to buy.
That's really been my job in my career.
And I realized that I thought I had something to say to people that would be helpful and hopefully people could learn something.
And so it came together in the form of this book.
And it really is about the great work that these wonderful entrepreneurs have done to create the technology that we're living today.
You know, AI didn't just come out of nowhere.
It's been a series of innovations that have happened over a period of decades by many, many different teams and many different people that have all come together to build the world that we're living in today.
So let's talk about the term artificial intelligence because some people are saying that it's already sentient, aka the Google whistleblower.
Some people say it will never be sentient.
There's a lot of different software and I would say programs that are now making their way into the public arena from chat GPT, obviously, to MidJourney to even Adobe now incorporating image generation AI into their Photoshop beta.
So tell people what AI really is at this point.
Well, let me first say something about sentience.
I mean, I don't think we really know what sentience is.
I mean, it's one of those things where we know we have objectives and goals as people, and we can see ourselves in our lives.
And the question is, can machines ever do that?
And it's an open question still, although and many technologists believe that will not happen.
I happen to disagree.
I think that We don't fully understand these things.
I think that most of the creatures that we live in around today are in fact sentient.
I think we're learning more and more that animals have sentience of their own.
They're not as intelligent as we are, although that may not be true for some animals like whales, which are quite intelligent.
And they have a sentient life that they live as well.
Could computers do that?
I don't think we're there yet.
I mean, the current language models are not doing that.
That's generally agreed today.
But many people believe that that will be happening within the next 10 to 15 years.
And I tend to believe that's true.
It's going to happen gradually.
These things are getting smarter and smarter.
And the more intelligence that is in there, the question is: will they begin to have some of their own objectives?
And will they begin to take on characteristics that we think of as sentience?
So, with these programs right now and these tools, we are seeing shifts in a lot of different arenas, especially within the media.
We had Sam Altman and Eric Schmidt, Eric Schmidt, formerly of Google and Alphabet, both testify about AI.
The spin to me is that you had Altman saying, well, we need a six-month hold.
Schmidt saying, no, hold because China's not going to hold.
We've got to push forward.
But both of them pushing for what?
Government regulation, more government regulation.
Should we have open source AI, number one?
Won't government regulation hinder technology and the empowerment of humanity.
And really, what are we going to see commercially with AI?
Because there are already talks of AI in Hollyweird via the Screen Actors Guild and the Writers Association as well.
And within the media arena, aka journalists.
Yeah.
You know, there's a lot in what you just said.
There's a lot of different things intermixed in what you just said.
So let's first of all separate the concerns about AI and put that in a short to medium term timeframe and then a longer term timeframe.
The short-term timeframes are AI are largely about the behavior of the AI, what it says, how it interacts with people, and potentially what people are doing with AI.
For example, deep fakes, you know, where people are truly impersonating someone saying something that they don't believe.
I mean, I think in the short run, there are some valid concerns, certainly.
You know, these are tools.
AI is a tool that is going to be used by people.
It's a very powerful tool.
And like any other tool, it's going to be used for every possible purpose.
So it'll be used for some wonderful things.
I heard that Paul McCartney is doing a new Beatles song that includes John Lennon's voice.
I think that's pretty cool.
I think that's a good thing.
And on the other hand, it'll do terrible things like these deep fakes.
And that's just a reflection of people, not a reflection of the technology.
The technology is just a tool.
There may be some reasons to do regulation.
In fact, I do think there are some short-term things that need to be done because of new capabilities AI has enabled.
For example, these deep fakes.
I don't think you should be allowed to impersonate someone completely without identifying that this was in fact created by artificial intelligence.
And frankly, you should identify who created it.
You know, if you want to mock someone, but you identify yourself, if you're a comedian, you want to mock someone, you're allowed to do that.
And as long as you're clear that that's what you're doing, I think our laws permit that.
But if you're actually impersonating someone and trying to deceive someone, that's different.
And perhaps there's some regulation that's required if our current laws don't cover that.
When people talk about pauses in AI development and some of the existential concerns like destroying humanity, that's not a short-term thing.
I mean, it's not the next five years.
That has to do with these things getting to be super intelligent and then going beyond us in ways that we can't control.
And in the long run, that is a concern that we need to manage.
Whether government regulation needs to be involved in it or not, I don't know.
I generally prefer a lighter hand of government regulation as much as possible.
Clearly, with technology, the government will always be behind.
So when something is a known problem and is causing real issues, then the government might be appropriate to get involved.
But future things, I don't think it's appropriate at this point.
However, I do think it's important for society to look at this.
I mean, ultimately, people are creating AI, and it is going to have the attributes of people, whatever that is.
And if your view is that there's all this misinformation out there and you need to censor people, et cetera, and maybe the company that's building the AI believes that.
And certainly there are some large companies that believe that in America, then the AI is going to behave just like that because that's the way the people believe.
If, on the other hand, you have an open, free environment for publication and that company creates AI, I think it'll have those characteristics associated with it.
So it's really about the values that we as people have.
You mentioned open source.
I think that's worth a long discussion.
I think it's great.
One of the best things that's possibly happened in the last five months has been an explosion of new open source technologies.
I mean, literally every week, there is a new model coming out that's been developed by some open source community that is improving some significant characteristic of AI.
It's interesting, you know, as an example, you know, these giant models that OpenAI and Google and Meta are creating cost hundreds of millions of dollars to build.
Well, open source is figuring out how to do the same thing at a fraction of that price and build things that are maybe not quite as advanced as those, but are becoming quite advanced actually and very capable.
So it's pretty cool.
We're seeing an explosion.
I think we're going to see lots of AI from lots of different places.
And I think that's a very good thing.
Well, I'm hopeful that we do because I agree with you 100%.
It is a reflection of what it is programmed with.
In other words, garbage in, garbage out.
But at the same time, if you have somebody who is a free speech absolutist that is going to let all the information in there, I think that is ultimately beneficiary.
Let's talk about AI and its current state, as most of these are large language models running on hardware.
So what does that mean?
Okay.
So what's happened is that, you know, as computers have developed over time, people have been working on technology called machine learning for probably 15 years or so.
It's really become more and more focused.
And one of the techniques that's sort of been developed is self-training.
I mean, as we've learned how to take information and provide it to these models that have been created, we've learned over time how to write the models in a way such that they can learn themselves.
In particular, the way these large language models work, it's pretty crazy.
They have a set of internal connections, neural network connections, they're called, where essentially statistical probability is assigned to different things.
And what the systems do is they read text and they look at the words that are coming in text that are being fed to them.
And the program is trying to predict the next word to say.
And as it guesses correctly, it increases the statistical weights associated with that guess inside its model.
And when it guesses incorrectly, it decreases those weights.
Well, it keeps guessing over and over billions and trillions and trillions of times on different words.
And it begins to be able to write and duplicate human speech and human language.
And that's essentially the way these models work.
They're trained to understand how to connect words together in a way that makes sense.
And that's all done probabilistically.
Now, that's different than our brains.
I mean, clearly the mechanisms are totally different.
And yet, this is very much based on similar concepts to what exists inside our heads.
These systems are essentially beginning to duplicate in a digital way using very different mechanisms than our physical bodies do, but in many similar ways, duplicating what our brains do.
And as a result, for the first time, I mean, my career is 40 years long.
The first time in computer history, we have machines that can understand and respond to English.
And that opens up the ability to communicate and work with these machines from normal people.
I mean, all of a sudden, the new programming language, what is the programming language of 2023?
English is the new programming language.
It's crazy.
Yeah, I mean, I've used the Photoshop text prompts and it's a little tricky, but at the same time, within four or five sentences, you can literally have an illustration that looks like a professional poster in about 45 seconds.
And one of the things that is, I guess, driving this hardware side are CUDA cores and graphics cards.
You know, traditionally, they've been utilized by gamers, by editors, by cryptocurrency miners, and they're still used in that sense.
But one of the ways that these are utilized via hardware is massive amounts of these, correct?
Yeah.
So what's happening is that these new models, these are called models because they simulate the reality of something.
In this case, it's a model of essentially a neural network of similar to a human brain.
These models, they require a fairly, they're digital computers.
They're definitely digital, like a normal PC or Macintosh or phone.
They're similar in that sense.
They use a different instruction set.
And the biggest difference is that they have a large number of processors in there because these neural networks consist of billions of different neurons and they have to be calculated simultaneously.
There's a lot of simultaneous calculation that needs to go on.
So you put a large number of these very special purpose processors together in what is essentially a supercomputer connected over very high speed links.
And NVIDIA has built that with their CUDA platform.
That's their software platform that NVIDIA has.
Hallucinations in 2030 00:15:00
They built up a sizable lead and it has certainly benefited their market position this calendar year.
I mean, they've been, I think, the most of the best performing stock in America this year, certainly one of the best.
And they're doing a great job and they're selling everything that they can make right now.
What you are seeing, of course, as in anything like this, is that AMD and other companies are coming along with their own solutions.
And within a year or two, NVIDIA will have some competition.
And like all things, that's a good thing because it'll lower the price.
I certainly encourage competition.
We've got to take a break.
Bob Mugley is with us to discuss AI.
This is Making Sense of the Madness.
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We are back.
It is making sense of the madness.
Now, Bob, you mentioned that AI is going to be a reflection of its programmers.
Isn't there an inherent danger in that when you're talking about the fields of education and medicine in particular, ones in which IA, or I'm sorry, AI is being touted as the next great savior?
Well, I'm actually very optimistic about both of those fields.
I mean, I think, first of all, you can't, I mean, we have it's hard to make, it's hard to have a worse public school education system than we have in the United States.
I mean, we've managed to really destroy the education of millions and millions of people.
And I am hopeful that having a tutor bot, which is what we're going to see, I mean, every kid in a few years is going to get a tutor bot that they spend time with, and it's going to help them in their homework and everything else and help them solve problems.
And you'll be presenting problems to the child.
And I think I'm really hopeful that that's going to be a step forward.
You know, we've learned that there's nothing to replace in-person learning.
There's important for socialization, all those things.
I don't think you can get around that.
But our current education system needs a reboot.
And I very much hope AI can help to do that.
In fact, that's one of the areas where my wife and I have some philanthropic focus on and trying to reinvent the U.S. public school education system.
The, you know, the medical field, I'm much more, you know, I think should work very well.
I don't think we should have any bias issues there.
You know, bias in education is going to be whatever the bias in education is.
And we can't fix AI is not going to fix the people bias that exists.
So it's going to be all about what the schools and the parents want their children to learn.
And AI will be a reflection of that desire.
In the medical field, I hope it's just black and white.
You know, this is just going to help us identify cancers, find new drugs, help diagnose scans, improve the accuracy, help doctors understand the latest techniques.
I don't think there's anything but upside in the medical industry.
The biggest issue with this is that, you know, when you look at AI, there's this big, this big concern that everyone has talked about, which is very real, which is hallucination.
This AI is very good at making stuff up that it doesn't know.
And it's very convincing.
I mean, it does a very convincing job that it's right, even when it doesn't know what the heck it's talking about.
And so we have to, you know, work through those issues for medical because we can't have AI hallucinating on medical things.
It has to be accurate.
Certain things require higher degrees of accuracy than others.
And that one requires a very high degree of accuracy, but everybody's working on it.
And the problems with hallucination will be solved.
Knowledge provides a solution to hallucination, and we can accumulate that knowledge and provide it to our AI to help them answer questions properly.
So let's talk hallucination because a lot of people are not going to be aware of what you're talking about.
A lot of times, these chatbots in particular will make up stats or papers or things that just don't even exist.
Now, that's concerning to a guy like me, especially one that's challenging the quote-unquote great narrative every day.
And my concern in the medical field is, again, these are going to be programmed by quote-unquote authoritative sources.
And if they're programmed by authoritative sources, like we just witnessed over the last several years, there's a chance for certain treatments and medicines to possibly be suppressed.
I mean, who knows if our robots are going to be sponsored by the good people at Pfizer or not?
That's a big question for me.
So, on top of the hallucination issue, which I want you to describe to people, because this isn't rare, this is happening a lot.
Isn't there that narrative control issue when you're dealing with industries of such profit and control?
So, let's take a hallucination issue first, and then we'll talk about the profit and control side of it separately.
So, remember what I said about how these things work?
They predict the next word.
They're looking statistically, and in any given sentence, they're looking at based on past sentences they've seen.
And these models have seen billions and trillions of past sentences.
They've been learned, trained on billions and the whole corpus of data that exists on the internet or a large percentage of the human-created data.
So, they've seen so many sentences.
So, they're just predicting words.
And if they have valid knowledge that they can work from, they will answer correctly.
If they don't, they just make shit up, basically.
I mean, they just make things up.
And that's part of the nature of how the current generation works.
This is going to get, although this is an area of tremendous research, there's still issues being resolved.
I really do believe this is going to get solved relatively quickly.
Because, as I say, the antidote to hallucinations is knowledge.
And if you can inject true information, information that is viewed as true, true is an interesting word.
If you can inject information that is generally regarded as true into the large language model, it will typically provide a correct answer.
And over time, I think that's going to become much more so.
You know, with regards to the usage of these things for whatever purposes, again, it is going to be based on where they come from and what they're trying to do.
And these models, these artificial intelligence models, will hold the same biases by and large as the people that created them.
And so, you know, I think it's just really worthwhile thinking about where your bots come from.
And the good news is, I think you're going to have a lot of choices.
I, you know, I was a little worried in January that we were only going to have three or four choices, and that might be a challenge.
But now I'm pretty sure you're going to have dozens or even hundreds of choices that you can work with.
And I think you'll see many different perspectives, human perspectives, people perspectives reflected in the models.
In the models, well, I hope that we do have a free marketplace of ideas in the AI.
The more, the merrier.
But again, I am just so worried about this narrative control.
I'm not sure if you're aware of the a meka bot, but it gave a, I guess it was an alternate New Year's address on ITV.
And the garbage that it was spitting out was every authoritarian agenda talking point from loving British royalty to getting behind the war in Ukraine, etc.
And that kind of scares me.
That makes me worried that this is going to be a tool to suppress real information.
However, if you think that because of the open source social networks, to the social networks that are behind that, did they suppress the real information?
I think so.
Don't you?
Okay, well, so that, so therefore, the bots they create are going to as well.
I mean, you know, if the people do it in, if the people do censorship or they take actions, whatever the actions the people are taking, whether you call that managing disinformation or censorship, it is the viewpoints of the people that are going to be reflected in the bots they create.
So if you don't like Zucksbach, maybe you'll like Elon's bot.
I don't like any of their bots.
Okay.
I don't like authoritarian algorithmic agenda control.
And I think we've seen that across a multitude, if not all of the big tech companies in one way or another, not just in the last election cycle, but really for a decade plus.
And I think it's only getting worse.
And what worries me more is that the places, and that's what I want to talk about next, that AI is likely to affect most are places like the legal fields because they can search so many cases.
Places like the entertainment industry that obviously have a large sway over public perception.
And then possibly the most scary is the media industry with Axel Springer, one of the largest media outlets in Europe, saying that they are now cutting jobs and bringing in AI.
Shouldn't we be concerned that the news stories that we see possibly in the next 18 months are going to be fully AI generated?
Well, I think you'll start to see AI generated stories for sure.
And over time, when the accuracy, when we have the hallucination issues are resolved.
And right now, the challenge is, you know, there was a famous, the one situation where the lawyer tried to present an AI generated Chat GPT generated thing in court, and it made up all of these cases that didn't exist.
And it was a real fiasco.
I mean, that's not helpful to anyone, right, when that happens.
So the technology isn't there yet to do this.
Will the technology get to the point where it can summarize what's happening on the internet, you know, the news stories on the internet and provide an accurate summary of that?
Yes, that will happen.
Will it still have a reflection of the sources?
Well, you know, the New York Times and Fox News provide very different sources.
They say very different things.
And those things will need to, you know, will get reflected to some extent, as I say, in wherever these things are being created.
The one good news, I'm going to continue to say this, I don't think we're just going to see bots from Meta and from Google and Microsoft and OpenAI.
I think we're going to see a lot of these out there.
And a lot of them are going to reflect different viewpoints of people, which is what I very much hope.
I mean, I hope that the diversity of humanity and the viewpoints that exist can be reflected in the artificial intelligence that we create.
And I'm now convinced that's going to happen because of all the open source innovation that's happening and the ability for people to do this cheaply.
You know, if it costs you $100 million to create something, you got to be a big company to do that.
But if it only costs you a couple, you know, $10,000 to do it, well, that opens it up to a whole lot more people.
And we're more in the latter category than in the former right now.
Which I think is a good thing.
However, with technology moving in this pace, I kind of want to take you into the quote unquote near future.
You've got people like Kurzweil, who for decades have been predicting the quote unquote singularity.
And he's predicting it.
He's stuck by his guns right in that 2030 region.
That's what I mean.
If anything, he's moved it in, I think, in his last, he's moving his timeframe.
That's the one thing you think he got wrong.
I mean, look, here's my thing with Kurzweil.
First of all, I contend that machines cannot become conscious.
Now, in the age of spiritual machines, he made the contention they didn't necessarily have to be conscious, but they would be enough to convince us that they were conscious.
Therefore, it's really the same thing.
And it's a semantical argument.
Okay.
Kurzweil also talks about how technology, by this time period, we're going to be able to harness solar.
We've only used 5% of the resources on the planet and the usable land.
We'll be able to move where we want and go throughout this virtual universe.
First of all, I think that that's way in the future, if it ever comes, because of the people that are in control of technology.
What do you think the singularity really means?
What is it?
Do we hit it in 2030?
Is it dangerous?
So a technical singularity is usually defined as an acceleration of progress by machines beyond humans' ability to keep up.
It's where machines have gotten to a point of intelligence.
I mean, we go through a couple of stages.
Right now, these bots are intelligent, but they are definitely not what someone would call artificial general intelligence.
Artificial general intelligence is when machines reach the point of intelligence of an average human, give or take.
Super intelligence is the idea that the machine is now smarter than all of us combined.
And if and when that happens, there's a view that there will be an acceleration of progress in an understanding of technology and an understanding of the universe that will happen at a rapidly increased rate.
And us humans will not operate at that speed.
I do believe it's going to happen.
I mean, I read the singularity when Kurzweil wrote that, and I thought it was super interesting back then.
I didn't think I would see it.
I figured it was somewhere between 2050 and 2100.
And I figured I was probably too old to see that.
Now I think it's going to happen sooner.
I don't think it'll happen in 2030.
I think that's too soon, but I do think it will happen, say, between now and 2045, something like that.
And we'll see.
Progress in Alternative Energy 00:03:01
To me, it's all about making sure that we are fully aligned with these things we're creating, that they work on our behalf.
This idea of accelerated progress has some very positive attributes potentially for humanity.
Potentially learning a lot about our universe just that we can solve many of the problems that we face in a day-to-day basis.
Fixing things like energy generation probably being the most important one, we really do have to find alternative sources of energy and of which I think fusion is the ultimate source and perhaps is much closer than we thought.
Probably one of the most exciting things happening in the industry today is the progress being made in alternative sources of energy like fusion and the potential for that to actually occur, say, within the next 10 to 15 years, which would make all of us.
We have to take a break.
We got to take a quick break when we come back.
I want to talk about that.
I want to talk about alternative energy sources and AI.
It's making sense of the madness.
Statapreneurs is the book.
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Short segment of Making Sense of the Madness.
We are with Bob Muglia, the author of Datapreneurs.
Let's talk AI and alternative energy.
You mentioned fusion.
Are we talking cold fusion, nuclear fusion, both fusions?
What are we talking?
I mean, I'm just talking about nuclear fusion, which has been an objective for as long as I've been alive.
I mean, nuclear fusion has always been something that people have been trying to create.
The mechanisms for doing it, we just reached a point in Lawrence Livermore where they were able to reach the point of equilibrium where as much energy was generated as put in.
Although that's not really true because there's a lot more energy required.
But I think we may have seen some breakthroughs.
Holding Back Innovation 00:06:05
I mean, it's very possible.
There's a half a dozen plus companies working on this.
You know, the private industry, look what the private industry has done for space.
I mean, when it was run, you know, through traditional government procurement, you know, it moved at a snail's pace.
And, you know, we wound up with products like the space shuttle.
And now, you know, you know, SpaceX has just totally transformed that industry.
And I hope to see a similar transformation happening in the energy industry because we need it.
As a society, we need this because we rely on fossil fuels.
And while solar energy and wind are supplementing this, it's going to be very difficult for us to move off of fossil fuels without having an alternative that really will provide limitless supplies of energy.
And fusion is the long-term source of that.
It's going to happen.
I'm sure it's going to happen.
May happen in the next 10 years.
It may not.
But I think that's a key thing to helping, you know, helping bring society along.
So when you were discussing the singularity, you know, traditionally it's that moment where machines supersede human intelligence.
You know, there's a gentleman out there named Stephen Thaler who's responsible for the quote-unquote imagination machine and more recently his DABUS.
And he was essentially using DABUS, this AI, to patent things.
Now, he took this to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court said that you have to have a human being to patent things and that AI cannot do such.
What are your thoughts on this case?
Did the Supreme Court get it right?
Are we going to see more AI created patents that will just essentially be claimed by their owners?
Where does this go?
It's a really interesting question.
I don't know.
I'm not a lawyer, so I can't, I'm not going to be able to answer that question.
I've always held a view that there's a role in the world for patents associated with protecting intellectual property that was hard to build, like drug discovery requires patents to be able to fund that.
Many things do not.
And I've never been a big believer in software patents as a way of protecting intellectual property.
One of the really fortunate things about AI is it has largely been developed in an open way through open papers.
There is not a lot of intellectual property held on AI.
Almost all of it is in published papers and then into open source.
So I think that's a very, very good thing.
Will AI do patents eventually?
I suspect it will.
I mean, I suspect there'll be a way where the patent structure will be applied to AI-generated things.
But again, I sort of feel like patents have a role in the world, but often they're misused.
I think they're often misused as well.
I want as much open source as possible.
My fear is that basically you have AI that is creating these patents, and then the AI is controlled by the government or the military-industrial complex.
And then that information, that technology is basically withheld from the public on an exponential scale because this technology is moving so quickly.
I don't think the government can hold this stuff.
I don't think the government can hold this stuff back.
I really don't.
And I don't think the legal system will wind up holding this stuff back.
I'd be surprised.
You know, we'll see regulation come.
Europe will be more regulatory focused than the U.S. is.
They almost always are.
But I honestly am confident.
You know, we'll see some stupid things.
Of course, we'll always see some stupid things along the way.
Some government bureaucrat will do something dumb, but the world will move on.
And there's too much momentum on this stuff.
There's just way too much momentum on this stuff.
And progress is going faster than it's ever gone before.
And by and large, the legal system is not holding it back.
It's not holding it.
I mean, there's cases where it happens, but in the scheme of things, mostly the right things happen.
We got to take one more break.
When we come back, I want to talk the book and how people can cash in on this AI craze or at least prepare for what's coming in their own personal life and careers.
It's Making Sense of the Madness.
Final segment
of Making Sense of The Madness.
Bob, let's talk the book, how people can get it.
And more importantly, how can a guy like me cash in or somebody else really prepare for where AI is going in the future?
Well, the book can be, you can buy the book at Amazon or any bookstore.
So it's available.
It's called The Datapreneurs.
It's an easy read.
People say that they can read it pretty quickly.
Everybody who's read it has said they've learned something about something useful.
And so hopefully people will enjoy it.
I certainly enjoyed writing it.
And it's been great to see some of the positive reception it's gotten.
You know, in terms of how people can cash in, I mean, the first thing I would say is everyone should be learning about this stuff.
I mean, we can all play with this stuff.
We can all get on to ChatGPT or Bing or BART or some of the many services that are out there.
Making Sense of AI 00:05:20
And I would recommend playing with them.
Try different ones.
You know, one of my favorites is a company that I have a small investment in called Perplexity.
It is an answer bot, it's called.
You can ask it any question and it'll give you an answer.
And I've found that by and large, it's pretty good.
Again, these things will, it's always interesting to see the biases and stuff associated with them.
I mean, you can find it out.
Ask it questions and see what they say.
And if you don't like that one, maybe look for a different one.
In terms of cashing in, in the public market, I mean, obviously there are a number of stocks that have done very, very well.
And participating in stocks like Microsoft or NVIDIA have been a very good way to do things.
A lot of things are happening in the startup market.
And that's where a lot of my focus in is helping these entrepreneurs that are in this process of building companies to be successful.
And so that's where I put a lot of my focus.
But there's opportunities, I think, for everyone in this space.
And I think the most important thing is for us all to learn what's possible.
Well, I 100% agree with you that ignorance is not bliss and information is power.
So, you know, that's why I've been checking out Mid Journey, getting into the Adobe AI, playing with a couple of the chat bots.
You know, there are certain things that have blown me away and been incredibly impressive.
And I've seen how I can utilize them to kind of empower myself.
But as I said, the big concern for me is narrative management and enslavement and the fact that a lot of people aren't going to understand that these quote-unquote hallucinations exist because when they do, you know, ask these questions and it comes up, they just inherently believe what they're told.
I think that now more than ever is kind of a time to trust no one, Bob.
That's been my view for a long time.
I mean, I find that the best answer is to look at multiple sources.
I don't know how people can.
I mean, if all you watch is the mainstream media, you know, you're only getting half of the story right now.
I mean, you need to see everything.
Even if you don't agree with what conservative media is saying, it's still important to see everything that's being said because the perspectives are reflective of the people.
And that's what I'm going to continue to say.
If something is coming from Fox or if something's coming from MSNBC, they're going to say different things.
And whether it's a commentator on the show or whether it's a bot they've created, it's going to be reflective of the values that the organization has, which is why the one really, you know, the thing that gives me true hope is the diversity of things that are being created.
We're not going to just see four or five of these things.
We're going to see hundreds of them.
So there'll be an opportunity for people to have a broad experience.
And I really think that's a good thing.
Well, I got to say, it's been a pleasure talking to you about this because you're ever the optimist.
I got to say that I am much more pessimistic with a lot of this technology because I fear government regulation over those AIs that may break out.
Tell the audience one more time where they can get the book and why it's important.
Well, you can get the book in any bookstore, any bookstore.
You can find it.
Certainly can find it at Amazon or anyplace else.
And it's also available in electronic form and is both as both in Kindle and as well as in an audio format.
And, you know, I understand your concern.
And I think all of us should have concerns.
And the best thing we can do is get educated and continue to advocate that the diversity of opinion and thought that is reflective of the human community is reflective of the AI community that gets created.
And let's make sure that that happens.
And that as these things begin to augment what we do and help us in our lives, that they can reflect all of our values wherever we come from.
I'm all about technology empowering humanity.
This has been a great conversation.
Thank you so much, Bob.
And thank you guys out there at AMP News.
This has been making sense of the madness.
I'm Jason Bermas, and I'll see you on the flip side.
I read a few people wrong, and that's my fault, but I learned from that, and I think I'll be a more effective messenger as a result of that.
That'll free me up to do the next chapter, the next stage of my evolution, which is OMG, which is decentralizing journalism.
And sometimes things happen for a reason.
That's my goal, that's my mission.
And I didn't ask for that mission.
I never thought that would be my mission.
It just has become my mission.
And I'm excited about it.
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