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Hey everybody, Jason Burmes here and for the next hour or so, we've got a real treat for you.
As you guys know, I like to talk to people across the political spectrum.
And if you happen to be listening to Monday's show, I mentioned a duo known as the Jackman Brothers.
Now, the Jackman Brothers have been in my life, believe it or not, for almost 20 years, just shy of that, somewhere around 17 and 18, because these guys, in their youth, started something called Student Scholars for 9-11 Truth.
And they were confronting people such as John Edwards about Bilderberg.
They were heavily involved in not only local but national politics down the line, actually taking part in the 2020 Tulsi Gabbard campaign.
And they're hilarious.
They're also comedians.
So we might actually get to meet Donald Trump, Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura, and Beyond during the broadcast, which of course I'm very excited about.
But they also do a little podcast you might have seen.
And there are certain segments of that podcast that are currently going viral because they sat down with RFK Jr., far from the first candidate for the president of the United States they've sat down with.
And I'm sure it will be far from the last.
So with that introduction, I give you Mike and Eric Jackman, the Jackman Brothers.
How are we?
Doing well.
Thank you, Burmes.
I really appreciate that introduction.
How do you top that?
I mean, again, you guys deserve every single bit of it.
You've been grinding and grinding and grinding for years.
What was that moment in your youth that you decided to get with Justin Martell, the other founding member of 9-11 Truth, the student scholars for 9-11 Truth, and decide to do this?
Well, we met Justin in college back in 2005 and kind of around that time, even actually a little before that, late high school is when I kind of started questioning the official story with respect to 9-11.
And, you know, of course, I was full-bore into activism by the time I reached college by 2005, 2006, and became friends with him and kind of told him what I thought about it.
He had questions too, and we just kind of went from there and we had access to presidential candidates during the 08 primary who already started coming into the state in 06.
So you can go up to them with a camera and ask them anything you want.
They have to do that.
And even though the DNC has tried to cuck that, that's still the case today.
You can still talk to any pretty much any presidential candidate.
So, you know, that along with the Iraq war is really what opened my eyes to the criminality of our government.
And they don't always tell the truth.
And there's always a prevailing narrative.
And each time you really look at it and study, it seems to be completely false or pretty off.
Eric, what about yourself?
Something similar?
Yeah.
Thanks, Jason, for the very flattering, incredible, and beautiful introduction.
You always do a great job.
The Donald loves you.
Yeah, it was, you know, being here in New Hampshire, man, we got the front row seat to the presidential primary, first in the nation.
It's a 100-year tradition that we take very seriously up here.
So we moved up here in fourth grade, and that was during the 2000 cycle.
So I have some vague memories of that, but it was really 2004.
I was dead set against the Iraq war in high school with Mike.
We were really some of the only people speaking out loudly against the Iraq war.
And we view John Kerry, you know, we were 17 years old.
We viewed John Kerry as actually being someone who was going to take on Bush and, you know, was an alternative we needed.
That John Kerry, that blue bug, that high.
Actually, I did vote for the 87 billion before I voted against it.
So we volunteered for John Kerry's campaign.
We got him to come to our high school.
He came in on his helicopter and he landed.
And we were up on stage behind him.
And everyone's like, oh, wow, the Jackman brothers got John Kerry.
They're helping his campaign.
So it was like at that point that I was just hooked and obsessed and addicted to this idea of politics and media and meeting these like famous and well-known people right in your backyard.
I was just fascinated by it and I knew that was kind of the direction I wanted to go into.
But of course, we always had that kind of dissident renegade rebel spirit within us.
And a lot of people say, oh, when you go off college, you become even more liberal and even more progressive.
Well, I learned about a guy named Ron Paul when I got to college.
And then I learned about the Federal Reserve and the creature from Jekyll Island and the national security state and all that really started to come into view for us.
So you tie in our anti-war activism, our questions about the 9-11 narrative, about Saudi Arabia being involved, Pakistan, certainly the work that you did early on with that.
So that kind of all put us on a path to really still be involved with politics and work with people in the system, but also have a look at it as a dissident.
And, you know, you just mentioned John Kerry.
How bizarre is it that all the way back in 2004, that's kind of like your introduction to modern-day presidential politics after the 2000 hanging Chads and the nonsense.
But now that guy clearly runs more foreign and domestic policy than the poopy pants zombie puppet in chief.
I mean, this is a guy that's a mover and shaker.
He's all over the international scene.
He's very much behind this Davos WEF.
You will own nothing.
You will be happy.
There's a climate crisis.
I played a clip of him in 2009 stating that within five years, if we didn't do anything, 2000, it was all over in 2014, everybody.
You know, and now that same rhetoric is there.
People like Thomas Massey are actually trying to engage him.
And he's just like, I shouldn't even dignify that with a response.
It's so unscientific.
What are your feelings about John Kerry and kind of his place in this dark cartoon post-truth world that we're living through?
Well, Jason, I got to say, Alex Jones here, he's been a really great globalist.
I mean, you know, just apart from the non-GMO Botox that he shoots into his forehead, which is green, totally green, available on InfoWorth.store right now, 24 hours half off.
But, you know, he's got behind's money.
You know, I'm sure he's still taking helicopters and private jets to dive out of.
But, no, it's interesting because when I was a 17-year-old and 18 when I first voted, which was for Kerry, I didn't know about the whole skull and bones deal.
And some people, like some Howard Dean supporters, are like, why are you supporting him?
He voted for the Iraq war.
And I was like, yeah, but he said he's going to end the Iraq war.
He's a Vietnam veteran.
He protested Vietnam.
And one of Of my history teachers for middle school was like, I served in the infantry in Vietnam.
I never had any cameras following me around.
And I'm not questioning Kerry's, anybody who joins the military or veteran, but it's just my history teacher who was a hardcore Vietnam veteran made that point to me.
And it always kind of stuck with me.
Wasn't that part of like the Swift vote campaign against Kerry, too?
I generally remember there were people that were veterans from that era that had either served around Kerry or with Kerry that were vehemently against the narrative that had been put out that he was some kind of a dissident or war hero because he was, I believe, in the Senate hearings regarding the Vietnam War in the early 80s when they were reviewing it.
And that was kind of his political takeoff.
Yeah, and he was part of Winter Soldier, I think, the late 1960s, or maybe it was the early 70s, the first iteration of Winter Soldier.
Roger Waters And The Israel-Palestine Debate00:14:43
And there was the whole controversy, you know, did he throw his medals versus did he just throw his ribbons?
And I always kind of thought that was, they made a big to-do out of that.
But more importantly, you know, Kerry is a globalist at this point.
He's a made-man.
He's one of the boys.
You know, he tried to model himself after Kennedy.
There's photos of him, I think, sailing with JFK.
You know, he got to meet him and everything.
And he really tried to chart that path in Massachusetts politics.
But then after the 04 election, I saw the clear fraud that was taking place in Ohio.
And that also got me very interested in election fraud.
One you bent the knee for, which is very odd for somebody that was trying to win the president.
It wasn't just Ohio.
Ohio was the main state.
We actually highlighted that today and that mainstream articles were daring to question the election and who was overseeing it inside of Ohio.
There were allegations that you had ballots moved in the middle of the night.
Ooh, we had ballots moved in the middle of the night.
And then, of course, the overall beginning of the institution of what was then largely diebold machines, but machines nonetheless that you really couldn't audit.
Continue.
Yeah, exactly.
So after 2004, I saw some reports about, you know, they wanted to do a recount in the 88 counties in Ohio.
And it was actually Michael Badnerick from the Libertarian Party and David Cobb from the Green Party that were even really saying anything or trying to have any kind of legitimate recount because you had the, you know, long line, long wait times and lines, you know, disenfranchised voters, voting machines not working.
And yeah, this was 2004.
It seems like they haven't fixed that.
It seems like it's gotten worse.
How dare you say that, sir?
We had the most safe and secure election of all time in 2020.
The Intel community told me so.
Tony Blinken told me so.
Christopher Wray told me so.
Damn it.
How dare you?
Excuse me, Jason.
You know it was a fraud.
Everybody knows it was a fraud, okay?
They had all those ballots.
They had them in drums in the swamp down in Florida.
It was just very disgusting stuff.
Okay.
And I had a perfect phone call with the Secretary of State in Georgia.
It was perfect.
Okay.
And speaking of Bilderberg, what's Stacey Abrams doing there?
I mean, come on, Jason.
I mean, does she think, is she governor of Bilderberg?
What's the deal with that?
Okay.
But yeah, so that informed my political views going forward.
And after 04, I no longer considered myself a Democrat.
I went independent.
And then from every election forward, I always went with who I thought was legitimately the most anti-war and legitimately talking about real issues like the Federal Reserve, foreign policy, the corruption of our agencies.
And that's where we are today with RFK Jr.
That's why we're so excited for his candidacy.
And, you know, RFK Jr., probably the most interesting candidate.
If you're watching this on the replay, which most people will be, because guess what?
It's not live, folks.
Today was the day officially that he got blasted out on the Twitter spaces with the Muskernuts.
The previous day, he was actually endorsed by the former crown prince of Twitter, Jack Dorsey.
And he sounds great.
I'm not going to lie.
He sounds way better than any other candidate out there right now, mostly in my opinion, because he has been the only person to say that the hate and lies shots were Defense Department driven and made and then just redistributed through Moderna and Pfizer by slapping that label on there.
And for me, that's the farthest any mainline politician has gone.
He was talking about the boopity-boop issue long before it was an mRNA issue.
But at the same time, he needs to have his feet held to the fire.
And my boy, Pasta Jardullah, who I'll be interviewing later in the week, actually put him on the spot about deleting some tweets where he had made some pro comments about Roger Waters and then taken those down after finding out his position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a.k.a. Roger Waters very much calls that an apartheid state.
Eric, I'd love to get your take on that aspect of Kennedy's campaign because his answer was very milquetoast.
He basically said, I stand with Israel.
That's why I took these down.
I was applauding him for his anti-war talking points and his position on the Ukraine.
But I disagree with that.
How do we navigate things like that, Eric?
Yeah, well, I mean, I was actually there at the State House and I saw Pasta.
It was good to see him.
Pasta, if you're watching this, you know, you do great work and you're always an honest broker and we need more voices like you in the independent media space.
You know, look, I got asked this question the other day, and Twitter is a tough place if it's just via tweets to have these kind of nuanced, serious conversations.
And, you know, emotions can kind of get the best of people and the instant gratification or the instant I got to own this person because I said something I'm vehemently against and I disagree with.
You know, Roger Waters has been a truth teller pretty much as long as that guy has been in the public consciousness.
And he's basically been world famous for, what, Mike, over 50 years?
Pink Floyd has been close to it.
Yeah.
I mean, basically blew up in the early 70s and here we are in 2023.
Right.
And he's never shied away from controversy.
He's never shied away from the bullying and the name-calling that you get when you accurately criticize the government of Israel, when you criticize the actions of a government, policies of a government.
That's what Roger Waters is very clear about.
And what happens is that in that debate with Israel and Palestine, it just gets conflated with anti-Semitism and bigotry and hatred of the Jewish people.
And I've met Roger Waters.
I hung up with Roger Waters, man.
He's a cool guy.
He gave me a few minutes.
I asked him a couple of questions for Jackman Radio.
I posed for a picture with him.
And he couldn't have been nicer.
He was a nice guy.
And he's always put his money where his mouth is.
Now, you know, with Mr. Kennedy, he's running in a presidential election here in New Hampshire.
And the state of Israel has a very powerful lobby here in our country.
That's well established.
They work to keep their voice out there and fight for their interests.
And, you know, this is to be expected when you put something like that out there and it involves Roger Waters.
There's going to be a visceral reaction from people on all sides of that debate.
So I would like to see possibly, and this is the, you know, look, we criticize tech and big tech and all that, but I would like to see like a conversation or a podcast where we have people come together who feel a certain way on this issue and let's actually talk about it for a change.
Because what ends up happening is it's just reactionary.
Someone says something and then they pull away.
Then they got to walk something back and then someone's vilified, which is kind of what I'm seeing here in this situation.
So I would honestly love to see someone with a big platform host, you know, Mr. Kennedy and Roger Waters, and they can just have a conversation about what each of them actually believe about this issue, not what other people from other interest groups project onto them and say that they believe.
Let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
And you know, I always found it really interesting about this issue is that somebody like Jimmy Carter in the later years of his life, I mean, don't get me wrong, he's in the super later years of his life right now, but we're talking about, I think, somewhere between 2007, 2009.
He writes a book about Israel and Palestine specifically called Peace Not Apartheid, recognizing it as an apartheid state.
Now, this guy is, you know, especially back in those days, kind of like a champion of the outward liberal causes.
We haven't gone super liberal or the terminology, I don't even like to say the W word, but woke yet.
And he was really somebody that even Republicans, despite despising his presidency and having a nip hard on for Reagan, could at least get behind some of his talking points and say this guy was reasonable.
That's why when they did the Baker Carter commission on election integrity and Carter not only spoke out against mail-in ballots, but he also spoke out against the machines and how they were not being audited and how we needed a bare minimum of a 3% audit.
I said, you know what?
I'm glad.
I'm glad Jimmy Carter is doing those things.
But then even Jimmy Carter gets pigeonholed and I believe he had to change the title of the book.
Now, it's still out there in that form, but another printing, the word apartheid was taken out.
So it's not just, you know, cancel culture today.
This is one of those issues, like you said, that is very hot button.
People conflate with you not liking a either ethnic or religious group of people when we're trying to point out, hey, I don't like the people in charge.
I don't like Netanyahu getting on television and bragging about the fact he's got 98% of the entire populaces of Israel's medical records for the last 20 years, and he's not satisfied with that.
He'd like to get their DNA and top it on top.
Like, we're going to pop that.
I mean, that's a problem.
It's a problem for me that the Israeli people couldn't get groceries unless they had a digital hate and lie certificate.
And currently, we have a World Health Organization that is trying to push that process through agreements internationally.
So how do you stop somebody or derail somebody that immediately tries to make that argument that by talking about Middle Eastern policy, Israel in particular, you're automatically a bigot?
How do you stop from being labeled that?
Well, how do you derail the conversation with somebody that automatically assumes that?
What are the talking points and evidence that you'll use to try to bring them in the frame?
Because you know me.
I'm always trying to bring people in with more honey.
In other words, let's find a point of agreement first, and then let's move it out.
Let's not just say, you're a moron, you're a libtard, you don't know what you're talking about.
That's not the way we should be communicating.
That's what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I want to actually talk about it.
And you can't just do it through a series of tweets and then have other people kind of speak on your behalf and project an image or a message onto that.
I want to hear directly from the person.
So I think if you can get stakeholders who actually live over in Israel and Palestine or the West Bank and find some academics or people who represent each side and all the stakeholders whose daily lives are impacted by what's happening over there and give them the biggest possible platform and get an honest broker to moderate a discussion with them.
Because, I mean, I listened today to the whole Elon Musk spaces with Mr. Kennedy and my friend Tulsi Gabbard was in there.
Kelly Slater the Surfer was in there.
It was very interesting.
They had an open conversation.
They had areas of disagreement and they actually just talked.
It wasn't hysterical.
No one was yelling over anybody.
It wasn't like, I got to get one up on this guy.
I only got 30 seconds to do it as a talking head here on Fox News or CNN.
So I think in a lot of ways, that's shifting the landscape around how we have conversations on very serious and hot-button emotional issues.
So I think the way to avoid that, being labeled something or denigrated or immediately cut down and poo-pooed, is to put together something where we're all going to approach this as level-headed adults.
We're not going to scream and name-call each other.
And this is one of the things I really like about Bobby's campaign: he's done, he does the nasty takedown politics and denigrating those that you disagree with.
He doesn't want to do that.
He wants to bring people together to talk to have tough conversations.
So I think that really needs to happen with this Israel-Palestine issue, but it has to be done in a way where each side is represented equally and given the same right to make their case, speak what the umbrage is, and then try and find areas where we can agree and move forward on the matter.
You know, you mentioned Tulsi Gabbard, and that'll let us kind of rewind to the 2020 cycle a little bit.
This was a woman of color running for the presidency of the United States who also happened to be a veteran.
Now, you would think that's bing, bang, boom, check in every single box that you'd want in a politician.
She's well spoken.
She's well-liked because she's anti-war.
She's common sense on a lot of issues.
And you guys get involved in that campaign.
I believe you've been introducing her at a town hall at one point.
How did you get involved in that campaign?
And what are your thoughts on Gabbard behind the scenes, especially now that after that campaign for presidency, where her time was limited in the debates to often under five or ten minutes in a two-plus-hour debate?
She was ripped apart by the mainstream media after kind of being a darling in the beginning of her career when she was in the CFR and still along the lines of establishment talking points.
So what are your thoughts?
How did you get involved?
What went on behind the scenes?
And what do you think of her now that she's denounced the Democratic Party, but obviously seems to be heavily involved in this campaign with another politician that I know you guys have reached out to and had conversations with, the Couscous Dennis Kucinich?
Yeah, Mike, do you want to?
Yeah, I mean, you kind of, I think you, well, actually, well, we both went.
So there was a big football game here in New England.
The Patriots were playing and there was snow on the ground.
So everybody was going to be at home watching the Patriots.
And this would have been probably December of what, 2018, Eric?
Or yeah, late 2018.
And Tulsi Gabbard was coming through doing an event.
And Eric and I decided to go to the event.
Meeting Tulsi Gabbard00:03:55
It was small, which was nice.
And we got to meet her and talk to her.
So we just introduced ourselves and really liked what she had to say.
And we kind of stayed in touch from there.
And, you know, Eric kind of got more involved, you know, with campaign events and stuff.
And I kind of tended to do more behind the scenes stuff.
Yeah, basically, I went to the event with Mike.
I introduced myself and then stayed in touch with her and the staff from there.
And then once, you know, she decided she was running.
I helped plan her first, one of her first big events and rallies and speeches here in New Hampshire.
We had over 200 people come out and I introduced her at it.
And that's basically what I did for a year.
I just connected her with everybody that I knew in the state and who was interested in that primary and looking for a candidate to support.
And, you know, I helped her put on house parties where she would go meet with people at their homes and speak and answer questions.
We put on town halls all throughout the state of New Hampshire where she would speak to a big audience and then take their questions unfiltered.
No pre-screen questions, man.
That's one of the things I really respect about Tulsi, man.
She's not afraid to get right out there with the people and any question you have for her, you could ask her.
But, you know, as far as behind the scenes, like what she's like, man, she's a sweetheart.
She has a really good sense of humor.
She really, you know, she liked a lot of the impressions that Mike and I did.
And, you know, we just had a lot of fun with her.
And, you know, we can joke around.
And she's only five years older.
So she's a millennial.
You know, she was born in 81.
So she's not Diane Feinstein, 90 years old.
And that's another thing, like you said, when you introduce her, it's very refreshing how she's relatively our age.
She's not so disconnected and detached from the everyday lives of everyday Americans who came up through the Iraq war generation like we all did.
So for right now, I mean, yeah, she's not running right now.
She actually just got promoted again in the Army.
She's a lieutenant colonel.
And she's got a book coming out.
Actually, it's coming out on our birthday, October 10th this year, her first book.
And in that book, she's going to highlight and outline everything that led up to her leaving the Democratic Party.
Basically, just being pushed further and further away.
Like you said, Jason, she did start as their rising star.
She got elected in 2012.
They loved her.
They said, we want to make you a vice chairman of the party and we want to give you prime-time speaking spots at our national conventions.
You check all the boxes, woman of color, very telegenic, charismatic, young, Iraq war veteran.
You're everything that we're looking for, but you just got to do it our way and play ball with us.
So she got into that and then kind of quickly figured out what it was really all about.
And by the time we get to the 2016 primary, we know what happened there.
She refused to go along with what was going on there and resigned, crossed the Clinton cartel, endorsed Bernie.
And, you know, here we are now today.
Was that, yeah, that's all the way back in 2016.
Did she run in 2020?
She ran in 2020.
Yeah, she served four terms in Congress, 2012 to 20.
And then she left Congress in January of 21, just before January 6th, by the way.
And yeah, you know, we miss her voice in Congress, man.
She was a breath.
She's a breath of fresh air.
She's just a down-to-earth person.
And she talked about that a lot today in the Twitter spaces with Elon and Mr. Kennedy.
How basically the Democratic Party is run by neocons and warmongering power-hungry authoritarians.
And her and Bobby have a lot of synergy on that.
And that perspective is very interesting for both of them.
Someone who served within the halls of Congress versus someone who has not held elected office, but was born in arguably one of the most powerful and well-known Democratic political families to ever exist in the United States.
Viral Footage Moments00:06:39
So it's a very interesting time for politics in our country.
So let's get to the podcast, guys.
You know, that's a big part of the Jackmonious Brotherhood at this point, where you guys have been able to not only get some of the heavy hitters in politics that are running for president, not just in this cycle, but previous ones.
But you guys do it with style.
You know, you whip out the mirrorless or DSLR cam.
You get a nice look.
You usually put on the shirt and the suit tie.
You're very respectful to these people, whether or not you may agree with them.
So, first of all, I want to let everybody know that you should be supporting these guys over at the patreon.com/slash jackmanradio because, again, they're doing this for free.
They're taking their time out.
And believe me, they're not making any cheese off of this.
They should be.
And quite frankly, their podcast should be much more popular.
But recently, you sat down with RFK Jr.
Portions of that have actually gone viral, people clipping it out and whatnot.
Tell me how the podcast gets started, what your vision was for it then, what your vision is for it now, and that recent sit-down with RFK Jr.
Well, we kind of late 2014, I kind of knew I was interested in starting a podcast, and I met someone at a day job that I had who had already had his own podcast.
And we were talking, and I said, Hey, man, you know, I want to get this going, but I need help with some of the tech stuff.
And these are some of the ideas I have.
And we met, and you know, he agreed to it, and we basically put it together.
And officially, it started in 2015.
So it's been going for about eight and a half years now.
And, you know, what I really wanted to do was interview political figures, figures of entertainment, authors, journalists, pop culture, anybody that I was interested in or had admired or just wanted to talk to, you know, someone who created art that I liked or something like that.
So it was a mixture of wanting to do interviews, but also just covering the news and pop culture and history and film and music, you know, talking about news of the day.
And really, one of the first guests that I, you know, a guest that I've always wanted to interview is RFK Jr.
And in 2015, I think was the first attempt I made to try and contact him or his people.
And I didn't really have any success.
And then a couple years ago, I got through to like a gatekeeper and then it kind of didn't happen.
And so it's so this has kind of been in the works for eight years, Jason, believe it or not, talking with RFK Jr.
So it was pretty surreal.
And yeah, the aim of the podcast is just to just to put our stuff out there.
And like we did, we had a great conversation with a producer and a journalist named David Whelan, who has a book and a film coming out about the assassination of John Lennon, which is something I hadn't really looked into deeply up until recent years.
There's a couple of pretty good books about it, and he has one that's going to be coming out that's going to be called Give Me Some Truth.
It's just so odd that when the FBI has files on you and they're following you around and they're trying to make you less impactful of a political dissident, all of a sudden you get shot in the face.
It's just so weird.
It's just weird.
Or the chests, which that's, I mean, that's a whole other where he got shot.
That's a whole other deal.
So we did a great deep dive podcast, over two hours, I think, almost on that.
So what I like to do is do long form discussions and just have people that fascinate me or people that I respect and or have questions for.
And it's been great with the New Hampshire primary.
Like you said, we've been able to talk to all these presidential candidates.
And hey, even if I disagree with someone or I don't like their views on stuff or I'm going to be respectful if they're going to agree to sit down with me.
So we've been pretty successful with that.
So it's been a lot of fun and it's kind of grown into what you see today.
But like you were saying, it really is out of our own pockets.
I mean, we just have, we have regular day jobs.
We're not able to do this yet full-time, although we'd like to.
We're certainly going to keep working towards that.
But whenever we do a sit-down in person with someone, we really put our all into it and try to make sure it's a really great production and quality sound and picture.
So we have our friend Jeff from JF3 Productions, who's been with us since the beginning, who does an amazing bang-up job on that.
And yeah, it's been great, man.
We've been getting great feedback, and it's still a work in progress.
Now, did you guys sit down with Dennis Kucinich back in the day and talk to him about Building 7?
Was that you two?
I don't think we did a sit-down with Dennis, but there's various clips of us talking to him.
I think there's footage of me talking with him about Sabelle Edmonds.
And it's certainly possible we might be sitting down with Dennis in the near future.
So stay tuned for that.
But yeah, Dennis made himself very accessible in the 08 election to talk to us about the 9-11 investigation and the Iraq war and stuff like that.
So Martell, I think, has that footage, Bermuda.
I think I know what you're talking about.
Yeah, because you guys did.
I want to say that that came out of Student Scholars for 9-11 Truth when you guys were doing a bang up job.
I often refer to Dennis Kucinich because, in my opinion, he's one of the last few mainline, supposed mainline Democrats that did challenge the war machine.
He tried to impeach the Bush administration with, I believe it was 33 articles of impeachment, the last three of which had to do with 9-11 much further than any other mainline politician has done.
He had been out of the spotlight really almost a decade at this point when you see him pop up kind of as an advisor to RFK all of a sudden, making me want to get behind this campaign even further.
My question to you guys would be, since you have sat down with a lot of these people over the years, and we'll start with Eric, but then I want to get Mike's answer as well.
Who was the most surprising person that you did sit down with where you went in there with a certain viewpoint, maybe came out a little different?
And then what was it that they said or did that changed your mind?
Wow, that's a great question.
Well, you know, they always say don't meet your heroes.
And I've always idolized and looked up to Jesse Ventura as one of my heroes because he's always been anti-war and spoken out and been a sore thumb to the establishment.
Surprising Political Heroes00:12:56
You know, obviously what he did in 1998 in Minnesota, beating the two major parties as an independent with only like 300 grand.
And the other two parties had millions and millions of dollars in establishment backing and all the media and the press.
So I was able to get a sit-down interview with Governor Ventura in New York City.
He was there promoting his marijuana manifesto back in 2016.
So I'd been in touch with this booker because we had him on the show before just for a phone interview.
And then I stayed in touch with her and said, hey, if I can get a camera crew to New York City while he's there promoting the marijuana manifesto, can we sit down for an interview?
And she said, yeah, absolutely.
So we scheduled that.
And I was a little nervous.
I was kind of nervous going into it.
I'm like, oh, man, what's he going to be like in person?
And I have this view of him.
You know, we're going to become good buddies and all this stuff.
And I hope I don't embarrass myself and look like an idiot.
So the interview went really well.
And then afterwards, when he was leaving, I walked outside with him and I just said, hey, Governor, I really appreciate your time.
And I've always really looked up to you, man.
You've been one of my political heroes.
So it just, it meant a lot to me that you sat down with me today.
And, you know, we did one of these and like a bear hug.
And he said, you said, you did a great job.
Keep doing what you're doing.
It's independent voices that are going to save this republic.
You know, something along those lines.
So he's a giant of a man.
I've met Jesse.
I've stood next to him.
He's a massive human being.
He is.
He's like 6'4, 6'5.
He's the body.
And he just, he lived up to it, man.
He was awesome, and he couldn't have been more generous with his time.
And I really enjoyed interviewing him.
So that was a lot of fun.
And then, God, there hasn't really been like any bad experiences, Mike.
You know what I mean?
Like, can you think of anything off the top of your head where it was like, oh, man, that didn't go well?
Where it was a bust?
Yeah.
No, but when we interviewed David Ike, kind of right off the bat, Eric was like, Eric proposed like a funny clip skit idea to him.
So I think Ike thought that maybe we were trolls or trying to spoof him.
Because Eric was like, he's like, David, can we get you to say, hey, Mike, you're listening to Jack on the radio?
And if you don't tune in, you're a lizard or something like that.
And so David was like, he's like, no, no, I'm not going to do that, Mike.
And I was like, oh, God, he's going to end the interview right now before the thing even gets off the ground.
So we interviewed Ike and we kind of did a video thing like this.
But unfortunately, we had a technical difficulty and the thing either didn't get recorded or it got erased.
But he recorded it on his end.
So there's a version of it on BitChute or somewhere.
Actually, and I was able to get it.
It's on our podman.
We had a great chat with David Ike, man.
That was a full circle moment for me because I remember as a kid, I'm talking like 10, 11 years old, my uncle and my dad had Ike's books on their shelves.
And I was like, who's this David Ike guy?
You know, I was just a little kid.
I was like, who's David Icke?
He had, you know, Child of the Matrix and the Truth Will Set You Free.
You know, those books.
So that was pretty cool to talk to Ike.
This was in 2020 about the Royals, about the Flu World Order, let's call it, about Epstein.
We had a great chat with him.
So that was interesting.
But like in person for a sit-down, I'm not nervous, but I was definitely excited to sit down with Stephen Kinzer because when I was a freshman in college, one of the first books that I was assigned and really, really a book that taught me a lot about our foreign policy was his book, Overthrow, which came out in like 2005 or 6.
So that was a very influential book for me during my college years.
And in that book, he just examines America's foreign policy at that point going back 100 years, you know, Hawaii, you know, Panama, Iraq, just everything, all the misadventures and all the overthrows and the coup d'états, Guatemala and Iran.
So to be able to sit down with him at our neighborhood brewery and talk for an hour, we talked about, I think, the Solomani assassination.
We talked about his book on Dr. Sidney Gottlieb.
And then kind of towards the end, I wanted to get his take on the whole Epstein deal.
And he got a little, he didn't want to say much about that.
Oh.
Oh, he didn't want to say much about the old Epstein deal.
No, he's got a gig with the Boston Globe, so I can kind of understand that.
And then after we shut the cameras off, we were talking about Tulsi a little bit and he lifts his shirt up and he's wearing a Tulsi Gabbard shirt.
So that was pretty cool.
That was a cool behind the scenes moment.
But those are, I don't know, those are two stories that pop into mind.
Hey, even Tom Ridge and Lindsey Graham were fun.
And we were trolling both of them.
And they were still, we still had fun with them.
Lindsey Graham, man, maybe one of the worst out there.
I just can't.
Jason, I love war.
I love death.
I love blood.
I love destruction.
I love watching it all unfold with a mint julep.
But yeah, we did a little skit with Lindsey Graham.
We'll have to send you the clip.
Eric pretends to be Trump and he's like, we got Lindsey Graham here.
We're friends.
I may have gave you his phone number, but we have the Lindsey Graham cracker.
It's made America.
And he's like, yeah, no Chinese workers.
And then tell them the Tom Ridge story, Eric.
We'll share that one really quick.
That's a good one.
Oh, God.
As you remember, Burmese, Tom Ridge was like the boogeyman of our high school years.
I know you're a little bit older than us, but that kind of 2002 to 2000.
That first Bush administration sting.
When I say first, I'm talking about Bush Jr., not old man.
I'm talking about first administration, fresh Ari Fleischer, Colin Powell, Wada Condi, Donny Rum.
You know, you got some Wolfowitz here and there.
You can't forget Tom Ridge.
A little Dick Cheney, a little Ridge, a little Wolfowitz, a little Bremer.
After all, so Don Trying to kill my dad.
I digress.
We were so Tom Ridge, just a ghoul's ghoul.
You know, what was he, Mike, the governor of Pennsylvania?
Yeah, governor of Pennsylvania, first DHS secretary, first secretary of Homeland Security of that new agency that Bush and company and the neocons created after 9-11.
So he was a high-level surrogate for Jeb Bush in 2016 for his primary campaign.
And Mike and I went to a Jeb Bush event where I got to ask him about legalizing marijuana and stuff.
And we had a pretty funny exchange.
I don't think that got filmed or there's a record of that, but that was pretty cool.
And then I spotted Tom Ridge kind of after the event walking because he had spoken.
I think he introduced Jeb and he went backstage.
And I had like this little shitty camera with me.
And I'm like, Mike, we got to go back there and try and at least get a picture with Tom Ridge or see if we can talk to him.
So we went back there.
We posed for a photo.
And then I said, Governor, or I call him Secretary.
I don't know.
Could we, my brother and I do a podcast called Jackman Radio.
Could we film a funny little promo with you?
Kind of, you know, we're big on the New Hampshire primary.
It would really help our podcast.
He's like, yeah, sure.
What do you want me to say?
And I said, okay, can you say, hey, this is Homeland Security, Tom Ridge.
And if you don't listen to Jackman Radio, I'm going to raise the terror alert level to red.
He looked at me.
He's like, I'm not going to say that.
And then I was like, all right.
What about orange?
What about hot pink, Tom?
I mean, there was a barrage.
How about pink?
We're doing the Lindsay Grandma.
It's going to be pink.
So he's like, I'm not going to do that.
So I'm like, all right, just do, just say this is Tom Ridge, and you're listening to Jackman Radio.
And we did a funny little thing.
And I did Trump there too, kind of trolling a little bit.
But that was a pretty funny behind the scenes moment.
And I mean, you had your moment with Trump as well.
Let's not forget, as Donald Trump, Donald Trump picked you out of the crowd, said, there is a handsome-looking gentleman.
There's a good looking guy.
And you guys had that moment together.
We got stuck in a moment, Burmese.
And he parted the Red Sea for me.
You know, that was during the 16 primary, I just, I had done, Mike and I had done Donald Trump's impersonation since we were in college, going back to 06 with his beef with Rosie when she hosted the view.
And he called Entertainment Tonight's cameras to Trump Tower and said, Rosie O'Donnell's disgusting.
I mean, you look at her, she's a slob.
She talks like a truck driver.
Rosie attacked me and got mad at me because I had to congratulate her on the failure of her magazine, her magazine called Rosie.
And we, my friends were like, dude, if Trump's running for president, Eric, you need to get out there with your impression of him, get a wig, dress like him, and just go out there.
So I started doing that and I got noticed.
And a local t-shirt company hired me to go to Trump events to promote t-shirts that they had called Trumpy Cat, which was a cat that had like Donald Trump's hair.
It's just a funny, cute little gag shirt to capitalize on.
Not Trump, not to be confused with Trumpy Bear.
You had the Trumpy Cat.
I really do feel like Trumpy Bear kind of bit off Trumpy Cat and rode that train in to Dollarville.
Just my opinion.
Oh, totally.
Oh, everyone had a grip.
Tremendous success.
Everybody had a great grift, Jason.
Okay.
It was unbelievable.
Until Trump Pillow came along.
They made so much money off me and I might sue.
So they hired me to go to one of Trump's big rallies the night before the New Hampshire primary in 2016.
So I'm there.
I'm already being paid to be there, promoting it, handing out shirts, getting noticed, taking pictures.
It was fun.
And I'm hanging in the back and Trump's speaking.
It's 5,000 people there.
It's at the Verizon Wireless Arena is what it was called at the time, one of the biggest facilities in all of New Hampshire.
And then Trump stops, goes like this.
He goes, oh, look at this guy.
Look at that guy back there.
Oh, do I really look like that?
And he points at me.
Everyone's laughing.
And then he calls me up to the front of the stage.
He says, come on up here.
Let me get a look at you.
And he goes, oh, no.
Milania, would you marry this guy?
I don't know.
Oh, tell me this isn't Trump.
Do I really look like that?
Basically saying, oh, my God, this guy's huge.
You know, am I really that big?
And I went up to the front of the stage and, you know, I was like within 10 feet of him.
And he was laughing.
And it was just a funny moment.
And he said, hey, man, that's great.
Congratulations.
I hope you make a lot of money doing this.
And that little endorsement right there in that moment got me kind of just kicked off a whirlwind of gigs, a whirlwind of gigs.
And look, you guys have always had fun on the political spectrum.
And that's one of the reasons that I absolutely love you guys.
Although your feed is often filled, both feeds, by the way, often filled with relevant news, interesting talking points, amazing content that you guys are creating day in and day out.
You also have a sense of humor.
Like, you know, we're in the dark cartoon.
I would hardly call you Trump supporters, but I certainly wouldn't call you people with the TDS or Trump derangement syndrome.
However, something quirky happens.
You guys are quick to put out a little quip, joke, meme, whatever, and kind of poke fun.
Are you guys, in essence, almost like a Carlin-esque era where you're sitting back and you're just enjoying the ride?
You do want to be involved, but there's a certain acceptance of what you can change and what you can't change and what you have to just sit back and laugh at.
Yeah, I think there's a degree of black pill going on, Burmese.
I think you correctly diagnosed that.
Honk pill.
Yeah, or honk-pilled.
Yeah, I go back and forth between being honk-pilled and clown-pilled, or black-pilled, or all three, really.
But yeah, I kind of feel, I've always been inspired by Mort Saul, Dick Gregory, and Bill Hicks, and George Carlin.
Those are like some of my all-time favorites.
And there's great documentaries about all those guys.
And if you look back at what they did, they always peppered in current events and relevant information and real information, but they did it with humor.
And I feel like they, you know, I don't know if any of those guys ever ran for office.
I don't think they did.
But their way of being able to be involved and contribute was done, you know, through the prism of comedy and punditry and activism.
And they had their own way of doing activism, especially if it weren't for Dick Gregory, we wouldn't have this Bruder film in the public record.
You know, him and Robert Groden and Geraldo back in like 1975 brought that thing on TV for the first time.
That was a comedian who did that.
So I think it's a very powerful way to do it in a very effective way.
And yeah, I've always been inspired by that.
And I love Carlin.
I mean, Carlin is, I mean, he got his big break actually here in New Hampshire at summer camp when he was young.
Humor Meets Politics00:10:39
First time he ever performed.
So definitely inspired by Carlin.
And, you know, as far as hating a politician or hating this party or hating that party, I feel like I kind of got over that a long time ago, man.
Like, I don't get upset about political figures.
Most of them are, they're like performers, basically, in kabuki.
It's a kabuki theater.
And with Trump, like Eric was saying earlier, man, we've always been fascinated and entertained and into Trump.
I mean, even way before even the 2012 election, when he flirted with running in 2011, when he came up here, and he's like, I had my investigators in Hawaii looking into Obama and what they dug up, quite frankly, you're not going to believe it.
And that turned out to be all BS, of course.
He's the greatest.
He BS'd his way into the White House, man, which is amazing.
Well, I think that he BS's his way into the White House because he sat upon a liar's chair.
In other words, there were so many people that had grifted and lied.
It was so accepted that you weren't being told the truth.
Then you get this guy in there that he's not Rand Paul.
Okay.
He's not as measured.
He doesn't have to talk too much, but he's very quick-witted.
He's smart.
He knows what the talking points are for his base.
He's got a guy like Roger Stone in his ear that says, This is hot.
We need to go in this direction.
And I would argue that two of the biggest things that kind of pushed him forward in the primaries, other than being also sitting on a liar's chair, wearing the Celebritard culture crown.
I mean, this guy was very much a part of pop culture for the better part of 30 years at the point that he runs and a TV star, a reality TV star.
So you had to start there.
But the two points that I would make were that when he was sitting there with Sean Hannity, and this was one of those key town halls, in my opinion, he did two things.
Number one, he was asked about 9-11, which was still a hot-button issue for those paying attention, and said, you know what?
We're going to find out.
Maybe Saudi Arabia is involved.
We're going to find out.
We're going to find out.
Implicates Saudi Arabia.
People are like, holy shit.
And then he gets asked on the spot about Epstein, knowing he has a relationship with Epstein, knowing there's got to be pic, knowing that there's pictures floating around already, right?
But he absolutely 100% knows that he's also on videotape with him.
That doesn't come out until years later.
And he's like, yes, friend of Bill Clinton.
Bill Clinton might have some.
He's like, he's got the island.
He might have a tough time with the island there in Bill Clinton.
That was at CPAC, like what, Eric, 2015 or something like that?
That was the big moment, man.
That was a for me.
Well, he, yeah, he, he just, you know, Trump is one of the oligarchs who came down from the castle.
Chappelle hit the nail on the head, dude, in his latest monologue when he hosted SNL.
He said, one of them came down and opened the curtain and said, this is how the sausages get made.
Here's how it's done.
They're all a bunch of liars.
They're a bunch of gangsters.
They're tax cheats.
You're damn right.
I'm a tax cheat.
They all do it.
Warren Buffett does it.
Of course I do it.
It's called, I'm smart.
I got a big brain, Burmese.
Okay.
And he revealed some ugly truths about the American political system, our media, and the elite class, and all those people down there in D.C. who think they're so important.
So he was able to really fancy himself as the people's billionaire.
And I tell people a Trump rally, if you've never been to one, you should go.
I've been to like six or seven of them.
They're amazing.
It's like Monster Truck meets Joel Olstein, Revivalism, meets WWF, meets reality TV.
Yeah, no, you're 100%.
I mean, I speak on the Reawaken America tour, which isn't outright a Trump rally, but I mean, you're essentially you're getting it.
And I would say that the Reawaken America tour very much leans into the church and revival aspect of it.
100%.
And it's slightly cue-adjacent.
We can't deny that, Burmese.
There's a little bit of that going on.
100%.
Which I'm here for.
That's fine.
People can.
Well, you know how I feel about that.
But then now I'm in a situation, guys, where we've moved on.
I've never budged on the QA nonsense.
You guys know that.
You know that I legitimately tried to find out where this trolling originated.
We recently had the Justin McConney meme case with Douglas Mackey and Microchip, and that shed more light on what was actually going on with the beginnings of Q.
I don't know if you guys are aware of this yet, if you've seen my work on it, but that meme case with Douglas Mackey, aka Ricky Vaughn, where they said, oh, he made up that has nothing to do with it.
That is not why they went after him.
They went after him because he was part of the Russian bot network that didn't exist.
In other words, he and the other guys were the Russian bots that actually did change the election and they didn't like it.
So they went after Mackie, McConney, Microchip, who we still don't know who he is.
And these are more than likely the originators of Q on 4chan.
They preceded that with a lot of the Pizzagate stuff that was out there and were all that part of the network.
And here's the thing.
Now we're pushing forward.
I'm speaking at one of these tours, but I'm speaking out against not only transhumanism, but really a new hero of the conservative movement and the right, Elon Musk.
They're letting me do that.
And guys, I'm going to be hosting Making Sense of the Madness on American Media Periscope.
I'm taking over that job this week.
We're going to shortly announce it.
And that's really born out of the QA nonsense.
In fact, I'm the third host on that show.
Okay.
And the guy that started it, John Michael Chambers, who's the head of the network, was very much a promoter of those things.
He knows my position.
They like what I do.
They're like, Burmese, go.
And I'm like, I will.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's a bizarre spot to be in, guys.
Yeah.
Hey, steer it in the right direction, Burmese.
We know you will, man.
And that's the thing.
You know, you've got to be able to have these discussions and these debates.
And we could do a whole show talking about Trump and his background and, you know, what we think about him and what the implications are.
But man, if the GOP doesn't galvanize behind DeSantis, Trump's going to get the nomination and he could win again.
I mean, that's that one.
I think that's a whole other show that I might want to do with you guys, maybe in a month or two to see where the primaries are.
And if there are going to be primaries, we already have the Democrats saying there's not going to be any debates.
And the guy that's falling down at Air Force graduation ceremonies is somehow going to run again.
Again, and Kamala Embarrass is like nowhere to be seen the last two, three months.
The cackle monster is in check.
We don't know where she is.
We don't know what she's doing.
We don't want her on camera.
Got a few more minutes left.
There's one more subject I wanted to hit on with the all-stars here.
You briefly mentioned Bilderberg.
This year, Bilderberg takes place in Lisbon, Portugal, has a bunch of players in the field of AI and technology, Sam Altman being one of them, who just goes before Congress and says AI is dangerous, along with his counterpart, if you will, the ex-CEO of Google, Eric Schmidt.
Now, these guys, now Schmidt, he's a Bilderberg steering member.
Sam Altman's there.
Open Mind's there.
Deep Mind's there.
Microsoft is there.
It's at the top of the list.
And who sneaks in the back door, not on the list, all of a sudden shows up in Lisbon, Portugal?
Yuval Noah Harari.
What are your thoughts on this year's Bilderberg and this Harari character who seems to be now at the front of the fourth industrial revolution, transhumanism, and in many ways has kind of taken over Kurzweil's role in this thing?
Well, I really loved Skelton's Bilderberg coverage for The Guardian.
I think you've had him on before, Charlie Skelton.
We're getting him on again this week.
I talked to him today.
I'd love to have him on too, Burmese, if you can connect me with him.
He does great work and he's funny too.
I loved his work.
I love what Dan Dix did.
Yeah, I mean, there were like three or four of those dudes over there trying to cover it for the press, for the entire world, which is still, you know, even though they put out, they're like, well, we put all notes out there and everybody knows the subjects we're talking about.
But we have Chatham House rules.
So we can't say it should be private.
Even though I work for the media and I represent the media and telling people what they should know, I'm not going to report on it.
So they still very much have that kind of attitude about it and how what you know, treating people like children.
But this fellow you were mentioning, Heraro, is he the guy who was doing the big, he did a big presentation on AI and said that AI is like the new war?
Yeah, well, he's the bald guy with the glasses.
Yeah, he looks like Moby, kind of, right?
Yeah, yeah, like if, like, like Moby's dark second cousin, yes.
Hey, man, the fact that AI was on the top of the list, and I think China was number two, I think that's very telling.
You know, AI is, and then that's another whole show.
It's a Frankenstein type deal.
I'm very skeptical of it.
You know, obviously the financial implications, what they can do to, you know, spoof your voice and your likeness.
They only need not much time.
Three seconds for audio.
Three seconds for audio.
We're down to three seconds, and then it's real time.
It's not even a pre-record.
It's where you can literally take over someone's voice in real time.
That's scary.
That's scary, man.
This is like a David Cronenberg movie, the mixture of body horror with, and you mentioned that movie, Her, with Joaquin Phoenix on the stream you did with Fitch, and that movie was disturbing.
And that movie came out probably eight or nine years ago.
Maybe a decade ago.
I hate that movie.
It got me feel like that.
I was aggravated by it.
But they're getting us ready, Jason.
They're pre-programming us.
They're doing a prediction programming, if awards.com.
But yeah, through those movies and through the agenda at Bilderberg, I think, yeah, that the AI thing, man, we're going to be seeing a lot more about that.
Michael, Eric, our time is up.
We did an hour.
I want to encourage people to go and support you once more over at the Patreon, patreon.com/slash Jackman Radio.
They give it all away for free.
You should look into not only their recent work with RFK Jr., but their comedy and much more.