DNC BONUS EPISODE: Michael Tracey, Saagar Enjeti, and Ryan Grim on Dems Restricting Press Access, Uncommitted Delegates, Ukraine's Incursion Into Russia, and More
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Here we are, Chicago DNC, Democratic National Convention, with Sager.
Sager.
Sager, sorry.
Sometimes I like, I know how to pronounce it, but I just kind of vacillate back and forth.
I apologize.
Oh, all good.
Yeah.
I'm going to cancel myself and now exit the room.
And also Ryan Grim, which I can pronounce.
Ray-on.
So I want to start with the logistics of this convention.
I know it might be seen as like insidery and nobody at home actually cares about it.
But like, for example, if you want the press to be able to cover the convention competently, then it is incumbent on the organizers to have somewhat manageable logistics, right?
So at the Republican convention in Milwaukee last month, I don't think we ever waited more than three minutes to get in.
There were, you know, uneventful security checkpoints.
You could go in, you could get access to people and so forth.
Here it's just a total nightmare.
There are people like waiting on buses I talked to last night for four hours who then just give up and don't go in.
And, you know, people who plan this to come here for months, spend lots of money on hotels, travel and all the rest.
They're just not able to get into the convention My question is, do you think there's some intention behind that, or is it just pure incompetence?
I think it's incompetence, and I also think it's a strategy that they implemented where they don't really care about their own delegates or their own ostensible VIPs.
And you're seeing where all the attention is.
The attention is on The CNNs of the world, those people get golf card access, they can be on the floor whenever they want, they have no issues with credentials.
And then the TikTok creators, those people, you know, having been in the arena, Ryan and I were walking around, we don't even have anywhere to sit, we're only allowed on the floor for like 28 minutes exactly, or we're going to get narked on, whereas if you're some dancer or whatever who's invited to the DNC, You have your own built-in stage, you have a little DNC handler, you have a place to sit with wine and cheese, like, you're living the good life, you know?
And so I think it's just born of explicit choices that the organizers made.
Although I never had a problem getting in the media side.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, I think, you know, we had some issue with Rumble.
The CEO put out a statement, I don't know if you saw, a couple of days ago, saying that the DNC didn't get back to them for ages, then offered, like, I think that was a bit anomalous related to Rumble.
We got the RNC fine, but who knows.
It is ungodly what they charge CNN and AP and these Reuters.
It's insane.
But I have heard from a lot of other journals that the problem is getting credentialed.
It's like a bargain compared to what they were charging these other places.
Yeah, people who I know who've done logistics at prior conventions have been like, yeah, this is a complete train wreck.
I don't know, is it because they switched horses, like, at the last minute?
I mean, that can't make for a smoother convention.
Isn't this the same people who are fundamentally running the logistics?
Did Kamala put in her own people?
It is, but it's different priorities in the sense of Kamala's got her donors, her constituencies.
Joe Biden didn't like the SEIU because it's women who don't wear hardhats, and he loves the building trades guys, so under a Joe Biden convention, the hardhat dudes are getting the priority.
Kamala came up with the SEIU.
That's her tightest union.
So now you've got to bump them aside and you've got to move the SEIU in.
That caused a lot of problems on the stage, too, because now you've got all these speakers who were scheduled to speak on behalf of Joe Biden.
Kamala wants her own people to come on.
Now do you go to Chris Coons and tell him that he can't speak anymore because, dude, you're a Delaware senator and nobody cares about Delaware unless Joe Biden's president and he's on his way out.
Well, I guess we can't tell Coons No.
So now you have to just add.
So it's this giant process of addition, just layering things on top of other things.
So I think that contributed to it, too.
We did spot Senator Tom Carper wandering around unescorted.
I mean, you know that I'm semi-autistic when I can visually identify Tom Carper?
He's like Haiti now himself, right?
Who's the old senator who we saw?
Tom Harkin.
I saw him again.
Iowa Senator.
You have to love him.
In 2014, he was going to cruise to re-election, Senator for life, and he was like, my wife and I want to see the world.
We want to sail.
We want to live our life.
The Senate sucks.
And Democrats are like, we're going to probably lose this seat if you step down.
It could cost us the Senate.
He's like, That sounds like a you problem.
And they did.
Joni Ernst.
He would have beaten Joni Ernst.
Yeah.
I still think he wins.
He's Tom Harkin.
But, you know, anybody can lose.
But either way, he's like a DGAF.
Maybe, but it would have been a little too close for comfort, possibly.
Yeah, I still think he wins.
He's Tom Harkin.
But, you know, anybody can lose.
But either way, he's like a DGAF.
I'm getting on the boat.
So people on the Internet are going to speculate that one of the reasons why the logistics have been such a shambles of this thing is because the Democrats want to tightly manage press access or restrict press access, maybe more so than the RNC, because Kamala Harris still has not done an interview prior to being coordinated as nominee, which is insane. because Kamala Harris still has not done an interview prior Come on!
People are just having to speculate about what her policy positions are.
We spoke to Ro Khanna a few days ago and he's like, yeah, maybe at some point it would be a good idea if Kamala gives a speech on the Middle East so we know what her policy is.
So the advantage of her, to us, the advantage of her not giving an interview is that we don't then have to go through the fiction of pretending like what she says actually reflects what she believes.
It's like, oh Kamala Harris says she's going to do X on XY policy.
We'd put that in a headline and write an article about it as if that was true.
When it's just stuff she's saying during the campaign.
So she's actually maybe doing us a favor by not lying to us.
That's the best gloss I'd put on it.
Something I think is interesting too, Michael, is, even when you're there inside of the arena, all of the media stuff is very tightly controlled and booked.
So, like he was talking about, these networks are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars, literally for this one week, just to be able to broadcast from the booth.
The guests are escorted to an area where other journalists can't even get to, if you want to try and talk to the cable news guests.
And then, as Ryan found out yesterday, all of the VIPs and others have these little handlers around them, where things are pre-booked, and you're not even allowed to talk to them in the hallway.
If anything, it's almost worse in covering than Congress.
Congress is easier, actually, to cover, because there's an expectation inside Capitol Hill that you stick a mic in someone's face, and somebody will talk to you.
But, you know, here, it's very, very tightly controlled from what we've seen.
- And see, we were on the concourse in the arena, and you could just encounter a member of Congress or somebody and go up and interview with them.
Right.
Some of them would claim they're rushing off somewhere at the time, but others would do the interview.
Is that less feasible here? - Just from what, some will do it here.
- Yeah, we, what happened yesterday with you exactly?
Oh, it was just this funny moment where Julia Louis-Dreyfus is in the media area.
I'm like, let's get a little funny question into Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
She has a real-life Amy who jumped in front of her and is like, no questions, no questions, no questions.
Is Amy from Veep?
I actually never watched that show.
She's a Type A. Make a Seinfeld reference.
I don't think there is a... Newman?
No.
Yeah, because there's nobody with any energy in Seinfeld, right?
At the RNC, there was really no restriction on just walking up to somebody to ask them to talk, but this seems like there's more of a limitation on it.
When we say it's less open than Congress, is that just because everybody has a handler, everybody's getting ushered around, or how does it work?
That's kind of just my general observation, is that there's a lot more ... In general, there are little areas.
So, I would see members and others either going to the networks, or there's this little TikTok area where the TikTok people can film stuff, but it's all walled off, You know, they'll go there, but then there's real journalists who are standing outside trying to ask questions, like, oh, I'm too busy, I have to go to a meeting or something.
Like AOC showed up at the Creator Awards.
Right, exactly, yeah.
But she probably wouldn't go to the meeting.
No, yeah, exactly right.
But, you know, the people who are willing to talk are actually the delegates.
Ryan and I spent a decent amount of time talking to some of the uncommitted folks and others who were there, and they were very willing and open.
I mean, I think probably just not desperate, but they're just happy to be acknowledged.
You actually want to talk to somebody about what's going on.
That's kind of the central tension inside the story.
I would say the only tension inside the convention today is, especially because there's no bitterness like there was in 2016.
Biden is gone.
People are mostly around Kamala.
But the only divide inside the arena is over Israel and over Gaza with the uncommitted delegates.
Right, I want to get to that.
I mean, we covered a panel that the DNC deigned to allow in one of these secondary sites at McCormick Place, Palestinian Human Rights, something to that effect.
Keith Ellison was one of the moderators.
Andy Levin was on it, too.
Yeah, Andy Levin was on it, a doctor whose name escapes me now that we interviewed who had worked at Alaska Hospital.
Oh, sorry, Al-Shifa Hospital, and a couple of others.
One who even said that she was a moderate Democrat, so she was not quite at home with some of the more progressive, but she was also Arab, so she was obviously very invested in the issue.
And there were some uncommitted delegates there.
We interviewed Keith Ellison's son, Jeremiah, who's an uncommitted delegate who's a city councilman in Minneapolis, also an uncommitted delegate, elected as uncommitted despite being a Democrat.
And he was like, yeah, I mean, the fact that they allowed this panel shows that they're listening to us.
That's the refrain we hear over and over again.
Kamala is, quote, listening in a way that Joe Biden apparently wasn't.
What that correlates to substantively, I have no idea.
It doesn't seem to correlate to any substantive departure in terms of policy, right?
But, I don't know.
I mean, the cynical part of me wonders if, like, some of these activists and delegates are somewhat gullible and maybe swindled or duped by the fact that Kamala, like, she's a woman of color, right?
So therefore, she must be more responsive.
I think it's a little more cynical than that.
I think some of them were hoping to bring the kind of Pied Piper, a lot of the uncommitted voters, back into the party and get them to vote for Kamala Harris.
By demonstrating to those disaffected and angry voters that Harris is listening and look this is a big tent party and there's a place for us and that it you know it's not perfect but look we can make progress here and this is you belong here not as a third party voter or sitting out or even as a Republican.
But, the fact that they didn't get their insanely modest request of a Palestinian-American speaker, Rua Ramon, they asked a state representative from Georgia to be able to speak, and to deliver a vetted speech, and they were told no.
Have you read the speech?
I saw excerpts from it.
So it's not that you're just going to go up there and freelance, right?
You have to go through layers of approval, and even that they wouldn't permit.
It's an extremely short speech.
It says there's a tragedy in Gaza.
It talks about her grandfather who was born in Jordan and how she came to Georgia when she was eight years old.
And it says that we need to get a ceasefire.
We need to bring peace to the world.
And we all need to support the Harris Walls ticket because there is a place for us.
Not Jill Stein, not Cornel West.
She's from the stage.
She was going to urge everybody who believed the same as she does about what's happening in Gaza to support the Harris Walls administration.
And the fact that she's there shows that.
And they're like, no, actually, no.
What's the name of the activist who we interviewed, Ryan?
Lexi?
Okay, so we had one of the uncommitted activists on our show, Michigan founder, so somebody up there.
And we also, I forget, who was the gentleman who we went to his press availability?
Abbas.
So, I mean, I say this with respect, but frankly, from the beginning, it was just clear to me that they weren't really going to do anything.
And so I asked her repeatedly, I'm like, okay, so if you don't get what you want, like, what are you gonna do?
Are you gonna vote for Kamala?
And they were like, well, you know, it's really about pressure and having conversations.
It's just one of those where, I was trying to be kind, but, you know, you and I, we've all covered politics long enough to be like, this is bullshit.
They're really pushing for leverage.
Yeah, it's like you have no leverage, so like, why should anyone care?
I read the speech to you, Ryan, I was just pulling it up on my phone, like you said.
Totally vetted.
Right.
And there is, I mean, I will say socially, what do you think of this?
Socially, I was noticing, so Ryan and I have been, you know, pulling a lot of these people we're interviewing, and I gotta say, these are some conscientious folks.
I mean, they're actual Democrats.
So like, look, I am a Democrat.
A lot of them are like, I believe in the system.
It's not that easy to actually become a delegate, right?
So these are people who support Kamala and all that.
And we would be like, OK, what's your message?
Like, I so desperately just want to be able to have some voice or say in the party.
And then I would always follow up with like, OK, so what are you going to do?
And again, I don't want to put these people down, but I mean, at a certain point, Like, when you have zero leverage and you're not willing to exert it, then I'm not really sure what you expect.
They're so obviously shooting themselves in the foot, and again, relinquishing any leverage, even what minor leverage they might have had.
You're not putting them down just to observe them.
But the real leverage that they have is that they are respected among the community of voters that are deciding whether or not to vote for Harris, and what they kept trying to tell the Harris campaign is I think, and you could read between the lines that like, look, OK, most of these top organizers who are uncommitted delegates, like they're going to personally vote for Harris in the end.
They might even endorse at the very end.
That's that's baked in.
But whether they can then successfully Bring in the rest of the voters like the actual people the 700,000 that voted uncommitted Maybe a couple hundred thousand of those be on the Gaza issue Like they need something they're like give us something give us a reason to tell these folks to vote for you Just through the crumb of a something Something, get a speaker on the platform, on the stage, so that we can say, look, we got that, it shows that they're listening.
You don't have to do an arms embargo, you don't have to actually successfully get a ceasefire, just do something so we have some credibility when we go back to our community and they have now nothing to take back to their community, because you're gonna get laughed out of the room with this panel thing.
What, you got a panel in a hotel?
No, that, like, and they understand that, that that's not, Why should I vote for this?
We've got a panel.
Does this owe to Trump and the Republicans banging this drum?
The Democrats are now embracing this alleged pro-Hamas faction of the party.
They're overcome with anti-Semitism.
Trump says if you vote Democrat and you're a Jew, you need your head examined.
There's some preliminary polling that suggests maybe at least certain inroads that are being made among Republicans among Jewish voters.
I saw some polling in Pennsylvania that suggested that.
So I guess my question is I mean is this line that Trump and the Republicans are going with?
I mean Trump is running on the most extreme pro-Israel platform of any major party nominee ever.
I think that's pretty indisputable.
So that's maybe has a gravitational pull where it's pulling Democrats in that That could be a contributing factor, I think.
That has to be the calculation, that they're worried they'll lose more votes in Pennsylvania than they'll gain in Michigan.
It's impossible to see any other reason that they would say no to vetted speech from a state representative who's saying, I support the Harris administration.
It's like, what more do you want?
And she's also repeating what is at least nominally the Biden administration's policy which is to pursue a ceasefire which is kind of a ruse to begin with but like she's just repeating what the Biden administration says every day.
And it says yes we can and we're a big tent and everybody should be a democrat.
It's like this isn't what you want the message to be to people who are considering whether or not to vote for you.
It's like so it has to be that they think that she's too scary To other voters who are then gonna go vote for Trump.
That has to be the calculation.
We've covered some events at the Jewish Democratic Council here in Chicago.
Today I hosted Doug Emhoff.
He was there.
I was blessed to be in his presence.
He was a true mensch.
I could feel his energy and vibes.
I really felt more joyful just being among him.
And he was talking about his lived experience as a Jew.
He actually used that phraseology and how the Democrats are going to be unwavering in supporting Israel and all this sorts of stuff.
Yeah, when he's the first, potential future first gentleman to have some impact.
He was trying to counter any claims that Kamala wasn't just as committed as Joe Biden is to the Jewish cause such as it exists.
I mean, what does that even mean exactly?
I guess it means pro-Israel cause.
Fighting anti-Semitism and that kind of thing.
So, I mean, the Democrats are more than willing to amplify that message, right?
You had the entire arena chanting, bring them home to the hostage So, yeah, I mean, it just seems like, you know, for all the hype in the lead-up to this about how there was this emboldened movement, it's really been more or less neutered, right?
And, I don't know, what does that tell you about the acumen of the activists left?
It seems like they're a facade.
Yeah, I mean, I just, what I didn't understand, you know, Ryan and Alwood also asked them, he'd be like, so you're not even involved with the protests, right?
And they're like, no, they almost disavowed the protests a little bit, right?
Not disavow, but they're like, well, we're not part of that at all.
The protests have been tiny anyway.
Yeah, the protests haven't even been big.
But honestly, I don't even know if it's about voters.
I think they just really believe that people just won't care at the end of the day, and that dropping Biden has just fulfilled enough young people who they may or may not have been able to get anyways, maybe previously, that the energy, the vibes, and all that are good enough that they can just steamroll.
I mean, people will talk about it.
We'll talk about it on our show.
But, I mean, CNN's not leaving their coverage with this.
MSNBC's not leaving.
Those little TikTok girls and gals who are in the thing, I don't even think they know anything about the uncommitted thing, even though socially they may be like, yeah, free Palestine or whatever.
But they're not following a lot of this stuff.
They're all good Democrats.
So, I think that's I really think that's mostly the calculus.
And it explains, because even in terms of the visibility, when the uncommitted people or whatever are doing a press, it's all off to the side.
And are there one or two big reporters there?
Yeah.
There's not a lot of cameras.
We had a camera there, but CNN doesn't have a camera there.
There's a sit-in going on right now, I think, at the entrance.
A couple of our producers are there right now, and we're like, oh, who's there?
And it's like, you know, some print journos, and then like, TYT.
And that's great!
Like, no disrespect, but like... It's kind of a niche.
Yeah, it's just not, it's not reaching all the people that, you know, that Tim Walz's Gus, you know, crying, that's like a big thing, right?
That's like, everybody in America probably saw, or a lot of people in America probably saw that.
Whereas, they don't, they're not even following the minutia here.
So on Ukraine quickly, and we'll wrap up because we don't want to hold you guys that long.
You have a greener pastures to get to.
But we do have a nice green screen behind us.
But you know, one thing that I've been going around doing, I did this at the RNC as well, is asking about Ukraine.
I mean, right now we have a U.S.-backed invasion of Russia underway.
With your laughing, I mean, but it sounds crazy even to express out loud, right?
But no, it's happening.
It's literally happening.
They're occupying territory.
Ukraine installed, like, a commander of one of these seized regions.
And they're using U.S.
munitions and, you know, British munitions and so forth to do it.
And I think, and this is in large part because the Democrats have just been not amenable to any criticism on this issue for two and a half years.
Even if you just quibble around the margins, it obviously invites accusations that you're pro-Putin.
I'm not denying that there is a pro-Russia element to some degree, but I'm not pro-Russia.
I went to Russia myself in December.
It didn't compel me to become pro-Russia in any way.
In fact, I was sort of disturbed by some of the fanaticism I saw and the ideology that's developed around this war, so I'm actually not pro-Russia.
I'm an American.
I look at U.S.
foreign policy.
U.S.
foreign policy is now enabling a literal invasion of the biggest nuclear-armed state in the world.
And it's just kind of crazy.
You can't even get Democrats to engage on the issue.
We talked about Ro Khanna with this, and I mentioned earlier, we interviewed yesterday Representative Lois Frankel of Florida.
Mostly on anti-Semitism and Israel stuff, but I threw it in a Ukraine question, and she literally didn't even know that the Biden administration had authorized Ukraine to use U.S.
armaments to strike inside territorial Russia as of May.
I told her that for the first time, so now at least she's aware, and maybe she can look into it.
So yeah, there's this giant blind spot where Democrats just won't even engage on it.
Have you seen that?
Have you pursued that at all?
Yes, the war has outlasted American public interest in it, which is a wild thing to happen.
It was a huge story.
It was a thing that the flags were everywhere, the avatars, the flags.
Then there's the stalemate along the front lines, and people are like, alright, well.
And then there's October 7th.
I guess we're done with that, right?
But Congress did vote to authorize another $61 billion, which is the largest disbursement ever.
And I think Congress was delighted to be able to go back to authorizing big amounts of money without people paying any real attention.
That's how they prefer to act.
That's how they got to where they are.
And then all of a sudden, I didn't even follow exactly how it happened, what some general wasn't paying attention to some flank or something, and boom, they're into Russia.
It's like, wait a minute.
They're going into Russia?
They're invading Russia?
I thought we don't do that!
We got rules!
And I don't know if you saw this wild clip on French TV that was circulating on Twitter where they're showing some b-roll from the day from their reporter who's out on the front lines with the Ukrainians and one of them has like Nazi regalia on his helmet and they start being like Can we not?
Guys, hey, we usually vet our video.
How did this Nazi symbol get on the video?
Come on, guys.
We should not be using this.
This is terrible PR.
That's been happening over and over and over.
When Ukraine retook Kherson in 2022, you had convoys of troops moving in who had just the most blatant Nazi iconography on their stuff.
We shouldn't have allies with this ideology invading Russia.
They're saying, can they take the helmet off when the cameras are around?
Or get a marker and make it look more like a circle or something?
So, yeah, to have... And people, I just don't think, understand what it means to Russians to have people with Nazi symbols on their soil.
This didn't happen that long ago.
The 1940s are within lots of people's lifetimes who are alive today.
And I think you're right that... I haven't been to Russia.
But, from what I gather, the war fever and fanaticism is dangerous and crazy, but also understandable in the context of... Anticipatable.
Would they lose 20 million people in that war?
20, 25 million or so?
Like, we lost, I don't know what... 400,000.
400,000. 400,000, and we've been doing movies about it for 60, 70, 80 years.
The size of the gap there is just – And Russians weren't even invited to the D-Day.
Uncomprehensible.
Yeah.
I mean, this is something where I've also must have given up pressing Democrats, too, where you talk to Ro Khanna.
And I always press him on Ukraine every time.
We have him on.
It's almost like there's a smile on his face and like the cognitive dissonance is acknowledged.
But like, that's what you got to do.
You know, you got to be a good Democrat.
No, we just can't allow that's always only just can't allow a Russian invasion.
And it's like now we have a defensive invasion, you know, to prevent an invasion.
And it's like, well, what exactly is the moral high ground of bargaining for my your invaded territory for my invaded territories?
It's like, oh, interesting, right?
In terms of all the ambiguities.
But with the Nazi stuff, all of that has just erased every front line of democracy and all this other stuff.
And again, like you said, I'm not pro-Russia.
I don't care about Russia.
But I also don't really care that much about Ukraine.
I don't think it's all that important to U.S.
security interests.
That's part of the religion and the fanaticism around it, which is genuinely maddening.
And even what Ryan was talking about with the Nazi iconography, you don't even have to insert that.
You're like, look, if Mexico bombed El Paso, what do you think we would do?
Can you imagine what the national outcry We don't even have a long history of successful Mexican invasion or whatever of U.S.
territory.
There would be a genuine outrage and a massive military response.
And it's just, we're getting closer and closer.
And people accuse us of escalation, fear-mongering, and it's like, what?
The war's only been going on for two... That's the other problem.
People have no sense of scale.
Unrestricted submarine warfare did not happen until 1917 in World War I. It took three years.
It was exactly like this.
Stalemate, stalemate, try something else, try something else, millions are dead, we keep going, and then, boom, you reach a point, U.S.
gets drawn into the war, and it gets even more carnage, and eventually, it ends.
Like, on the scale of where we are, for, especially a massive European war like this, it's not that long into it.
Like, it's really not.
I remember being on Rogan, like, two years ago, just being like, hey, if you, because that's when the Ukrainians had their, you know, spring offensive, and it's like, okay, it's 1862.
I'm like, oh yeah, the Confederates, they're gonna win this war.
Well, what do we learn?
Industrial power, you know, and industrial power, will, manpower, together against a depleting, like, smaller force, which can only, you know, execute, like, lightning movements, but then eventually gets worn down over time.
We've seen this story a million times, especially inside Russia, too.
Like, four or five different times, but everyone's like, oh, you know, five F-16s donated from the Netherlands or whatever, like, yeah, that'll make the difference.
Everyone seems to forget, you know, The Nazis had a superior aircraft to the United States.
It didn't matter, though, because they were not enough near the end of the war, and they were very intricate, and we had the ability to just mass-produce these B-17 bombers and all these other airframes, so we could just shoot down the ones that we could.
Obviously, it cost a lot of lives, but in the long run, manpower, industrial production, and all of that is always going to win out in the end.
Yeah, I mean, if I had said two years ago that two years from now there will be a US-backed literal invasion of Russia, I would have been accused of fear mongering.
I would have been accused of irrationally hyping these escalation threats to help Russia or to support their side of the narrative war.
Meanwhile, I was just at the STRATCOM deterrence symposium in Omaha, Nebraska prior to coming here, and I interviewed the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, C.Q.
Brown, General C.Q.
Brown, about what foreknowledge the U.S.
had of this invasion, and he said he wouldn't confirm or deny the U.S.
had foreknowledge, which, in Draw Your Own Conclusions, it seems like the U.S.
is pretty interoperable with Ukraine at this point, so it would be strange if there was no foreknowledge.
But that's just what you get, I think, in part because the Democrats are so unswervingly unanimous on this.
Every single Democrat voted in favor of that $61 billion portion of the Ukraine bill.
There was more dissension among Republicans, and then you had a minority vote against the Israel portion, but you can't even get them to have a debate on it.
So that's why I'm sort of stubborn, where any Democrat I encounter, I'm going to ask about the Ukraine stuff because, I mean, somebody's got to do it, right?
I agree.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Alright guys, well thanks for joining us.
We're at the Chicago DNC.
Ryan, you have a new outlet, remind us.
Yeah, Drop Sight.
Check us out.
Oh, check us out.
Dropsite.
DropsiteNews.com.
Hosted by Substack, right?
Hosted by Substack.
We're at the Substack pop-up bureau thing here in D.C.
Sorry, at the DNC.
It's me, Jeremy Scahill, Murtaza Hussain, Nausicaa Renner, Casey Quirk, some veterans of the Intercept after an exodus from over there.
We're kind of just building a new one.
And Breaking Points, right?
Yes.
Breaking Points, YouTube, Locals, wherever you get your podcasts.
Yes.
And we're doing stuff for System Update.
Obviously, I should promote my site too, mtracy.net.
I have the interview with the Joint Chief of Staff, which is kind of a big deal.
