The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 72 | A Medal of Honor for a Grenade I Can’t Remember | Kyle Carpenter | The Glenn Beck Podcast
Aired: 2020-03-21
Duration: 01:10:30


=== Final Moments After Detonation (08:54) ===

[00:00:00]  I'm sitting here in the Mercury Studios, which were built as the Paramount lot here in Texas.
[00:00:06]  And this stage has told many, many stories and many films.
[00:00:12]  Now I've purchased the lot and we tell stories in a different way.
[00:00:17]  And the people that have sat on this stage to talk about what they have done are incredible.
[00:00:24]  The podcasts really are a collection of people that are unique.
[00:00:29]  And every day we're surrounded by great conversations.
[00:00:32]  And I hear a ton of stories.
[00:00:34]  Sad stories, stories that will leave you devastated, stories of hope, stories of tremendous humanity, hero stories, real-life heroes, people who accomplished the unthinkable.
[00:00:45]  Today, I think the guest is all of those things.
[00:00:48]  He is a walking lesson in empathy.
[00:00:50]  His story, unbelievable.
[00:00:52]  Without a doubt, a miracle that he's still alive.
[00:00:54]  I don't want to ruin the story for you.
[00:00:56]  But when he was 21 years old, he went off to war, most dangerous war zone in the world.
[00:01:02]  He endured the unimaginable, but did it in a heroic way.
[00:01:06]  And people will say this one event changed his life, but I disagree with that.
[00:01:12]  I don't think it had anything to do with that event.
[00:01:16]  And that event, the excruciating consequences of that event, impact him still today.
[00:01:22]  This is one of those podcasts you're going to carry around with you for a while because my guest today has a ton to teach about just the simple art of being a good person.
[00:01:33]  His story is of great empathy, motivate, and inspire you to, as his book says in the subtitle, build a life that's worth fighting for because you're worth it.
[00:01:43]  His name is Kyle Carpenter, the youngest Medal of Honor recipient ever.
[00:02:00]  So I have a reason I want to start here.
[00:02:04]  Um...
[00:02:05]  And you'll understand after you answer the first question.
[00:02:08]  Just tell me about the minute that you jumped on the grenade.
[00:02:15]  Let's start there.
[00:02:17]  So maybe one of the craziest parts of my journey is I do not remember that minute.
[00:02:26]  Leading up to it?
[00:02:27]  Leading up to it.
[00:02:29]  I do not remember seeing the grenade, hearing it land, thinking about it.
[00:02:36]  All I remember is physically how I felt after that grenade detonated and I was injured.
[00:02:46]  So you remember laying on the ground after it detonated?
[00:02:51]  I don't know.
[00:02:53]  I was so disoriented.
[00:02:56]  I felt like I was laying face down on the ground because the first thing that I tried to do was kind of push myself up and shake it off.
[00:03:08]  But my first realization was I could not feel either one of my arms from the shoulders down.
[00:03:15]  And like I said, I was so disoriented that even though I didn't know what was going on, not being able to feel my arms to trying to push myself up and shake it off planted first seed of initial panic.
[00:03:36]  Following that, as I continued searching through the disoriented pieces to try to put some type of what happened together, I thought, okay, the last thing I remember, I'm pretty sure I was in Afghanistan.
[00:04:02]  I was on a roof.
[00:04:04]  Maybe, and now that I'm talking about it, it's crazy that I can even recollect this much.
[00:04:12]  But I thought maybe I got off of the roof.
[00:04:16]  I went on a foot patrol.
[00:04:18]  I stepped on an IED.
[00:04:20]  And just the last thing that my brain can register or remember is being on that roof.
[00:04:26]  Those thoughts were interrupted by, and this will allude to Marine's humor, but those thoughts were interrupted by what I thought was someone pouring warm water all over me.
[00:04:38]  I'm thinking, really, guys?
[00:04:40]  In this banged up state I'm in.
[00:04:43]  You're pouring warm water on me right now.
[00:04:45]  But that final piece allowed the other ones to fall into place.
[00:04:51]  And it gave me the surreal and unfortunate realization that what I was feeling was not warm water, that it was blood and I was profusely bleeding out.
[00:05:01]  So with physically how I felt, accompanied by the medical training we get as Marines before deploying, and just unfortunately the casualties I had seen so far on that deployment, with all of those combined, I knew that my time was inevitably limited.
[00:05:23]  And so in my final few moments, you know, what I thought were my final few moments on this earth, I thought about my family, specifically my mother, and how devastated that she was going to be that I did not survive to make it home.
[00:05:39]  A tiredness that is still almost 10 years later impossible to recount or describe completely consumed every fiber of my being and I Said a quick prayer for forgiveness and anything I had done wrong in my life.
[00:06:01]  And I faded from consciousness in the world on that hot, dusty rooftop.
[00:06:07]  And I woke up roughly five weeks later with snow outside of my hospital room window on the other side of the world.
[00:06:16]  And my first sight was slowly opening the only eye I had left to Christmas stockings that were hanging on my hospital room wall that my mom had hung while she, of course, was hopefully and lovingly preparing for me to wake up and have life again.
[00:06:34]  Tell me what your friends, what you found out, what you did.
[00:06:38]  Tell me what your friends and your co-marines said you did.
[00:06:54]  I guess the first moment that anything came up about what I did or my actions on the roof that day, I was still early on in the hospital.
[00:07:07]  It was end of February, and I had spent from November 28th when I arrived at Walter Reed through that January.
[00:07:19]  So a couple of months later.
[00:07:21]  And once I got through the, you know, let's try to keep in breathing, the life-saving steps, once I was a little bit more stable, I moved down to what's called a polytrauma unit to spend my final third inpatient month in the hospital down there.
[00:07:43]  You know, I was off of my trait, the ventilator.
[00:07:46]  Most of the tubes were out of me, and I was able to get up and start walking around, going to therapy, speech therapy, and things like that, more follow-on steps than the immediate care.
[00:07:58]  And it was one of my last few days in the hospital, and I have no idea how I made a trip to the mall while I was in the hospital, but and it wasn't to go shopping, but I think it was more just to get out with my therapist and get some fresh air, start to think about, you know, that transition out of the hospital, even though I was going to be in the hospital for many years,
[00:08:25]  but transition to more of the outpatient side of things and start regaining my life again.
[00:08:33]  But I was about to leave Richmond, Virginia, that polytrauma unit, and I was sitting in the food court at the mall.
[00:08:40]  And my good buddy Griffin Welch called me.
[00:08:43]  And Griffin, a good old boy from Mississippi, did four combat deployments and got out before he could even enjoy his first legal beer at 21.

=== The Defining Moment Before the Grenade (09:28) ===

[00:08:54]  And so it was both of our first combat deployments with each other, and he had called me and I was sitting there all wrapped up and bandaged up in my sling.
[00:09:05]  He told me that, you know, the Marines saw and knew what I did, and they loved me, and they believed that at least from their just boots on the ground perspective, they are with me, that they believed that I should be and that they were going to recommend me for the Medal of Honor.
[00:09:27]  Now, with that said, we hang up that phone call and for years until I got any further calls, I did not think about it one more time for one more second.
[00:09:38]  And you still didn't really know what you had done, what they claimed you had done, or did he tell you what they were saying you did?
[00:09:49]  I, it's so strange because I could not have recounted the pieces and parts.
[00:10:01]  But in a way, and I've never really brought this up because it's so unofficial.
[00:10:10]  There was no point.
[00:10:12]  I mean, this cannot, what I'm about to say could not have been a factor in the very extensive and thorough two-year and over 250-page official investigation done by the Marine Corps military.
[00:10:28]  But I do remember as if my body was a shell and I had no cognitive abilities.
[00:10:38]  I do remember being on my knees and moving forward towards something.
[00:10:45]  Now, again, this just plays into the strangeness of it because I don't remember seeing the grenade or thinking about it.
[00:10:53]  But I do remember this empty shell of me falling forward.
[00:10:58]  And I remember, if I had to guess, being, you know, just knowing my body and playing sports and rough housing my whole life with my brothers and friends, I felt like I was just a few inches from landing on my face on the ground face first.
[00:11:17]  And I remember having just those few inches before I got, before I felt like I got hit really hard in the face with something.
[00:11:26]  And so in a way, I vaguely remember maybe going through the motions, but again, I don't remember thinking about it.
[00:11:34]  And, you know, they told me that and we hung up the phone.
[00:11:38]  I thanked them.
[00:11:40]  They told me they were proud of me.
[00:11:41]  I told them that I appreciate it and that I would see them soon.
[00:11:45]  And, you know, that was it.
[00:11:46]  And I got on with my recovery and my life.
[00:11:50]  Well, the truth is that you threw yourself on the grenade to save everyone else.
[00:11:59]  And I wanted to start there because I think some people would say that was the defining moment of your life, but I don't think it is.
[00:12:10]  I think it's so unnatural for someone to do that that you had to have defining moments in your life way before that would make that just an automatic movement.
[00:12:27]  Does that make sense to you?
[00:12:28]  Absolutely.
[00:12:29]  So I want to talk about the defining moment of your life that had to have happened before the grenade.
[00:12:36]  What were they?
[00:12:39]  What makes a man automatically do that?
[00:12:45]  Have you found those points?
[00:12:50]  I appreciate you bringing this up and that is compared to many other interviews and people's opinions, that's a very profound insight because you're exactly right.
[00:13:06]  It's always about that moment and that moment defines it for me.
[00:13:12]  And there's not too much emphasis on the before or the things which I'm most proud of that I've done since.
[00:13:21]  But before, like I talk about in the book, my foundation, like many people's, came from my family and the people that I chose to surround myself with growing up and the people that thankfully just happened to,
[00:13:46]  you know, our paths crossed, from coaches to teachers.
[00:13:54]  So the first part of it is my family.
[00:13:58]  I think first and foremost, just always truly loving and supporting me from being there every single second from the moment I was born, from every single second, from the moment that I woke up and in a way, you know, was born again into this bonus round that I'm living now.
[00:14:23]  And for them to always encourage me and my brothers to not only find out who we are in the way and time that we need to, but to not inhibit us in any way.
[00:14:42]  And even if the goals or aspirations were seemingly unrealistic or unattainable at the time or altogether to make us feel like we could accomplish those things and achieve whatever we wanted to as long as we were good people who worked hard and gave back to others.
[00:15:06]  And so it starts there.
[00:15:11]  But then you go to those other people that helped shape me, the football and baseball coaches, my teachers, my, you know, my friends, and all these people that have loved and supported me my whole life.
[00:15:31]  But with that said, and I was hesitant to write so much about my parents and my family in the book because I wanted this book to not only transcend all boundaries, but to allow everyone to pick it up, understand it, and be able to take from it.
[00:15:52]  And I didn't want to turn anyone off from it.
[00:15:56]  And I know that I'm very fortunate.
[00:15:58]  And a lot of people are not born into the best home life or they don't have two loving parents that are at every baseball and football game.
[00:16:09]  So I struggle with that.
[00:16:12]  But I ended up going with it because, you know, for those people that don't get that, I wanted to give an example of the love, you know, that you can give as a parent and what you can make it through.
[00:16:26]  But all of those other people, my friends and coaches and all of those people, you know, in life, every experience, every person, every interaction we have, everything is an opportunity.
[00:16:45]  And even the bad things that maybe more importantly.
[00:16:52]  Exactly.
[00:16:53]  You can learn just as much, you know, good and bad from people.
[00:16:58]  And so I wasn't aware of it, and I don't believe I realized it at the time.
[00:17:05]  But now looking back, I'm so thankful that with every person, friend that I made, every person I worked with through in the chicken plant,
[00:17:21]  my bosses there, I always tried to, like you said, look at, okay, if this person isn't the way I want to carry myself,
[00:17:38]  lead people in the workplace, I chose to try to take something from everyone and build upon that and think about it.
[00:17:52]  And so, you know, with my family's foundation and all of those incredible people and the people that taught me how I maybe didn't want to conduct myself in my life, that along with the third and very important kind of factor into this is as Marines starting out as recruits going to boot camp.

=== Boot Camp Van Door Ripped Open (03:01) ===

[00:18:23]  From the moment you pull up in that van and that van door is ripped open by the scariest human being you've ever seen.
[00:18:33]  You, you know, no one's got their haircuts yet.
[00:18:36]  No one's got their uniforms.
[00:18:39]  Everybody's dressed differently.
[00:18:41]  But you get out of the van very quickly and you stand on those yellow footprints.
[00:18:48]  And from that moment, for the next 13 weeks of boot camp and for the next four years of your career or 30 years during boot camp and as a Marine, your leaders and your mentors and your chain of command and those drill instructors, you are, you know, people think, oh, it's your training.
[00:19:17]  You know, they're always throwing grenades, fake grenades everywhere and you're having to jump on them.
[00:19:21]  And it's not like that.
[00:19:24]  I really don't even remember ever doing that.
[00:19:28]  What it is is they teach you through your history and your legacy.
[00:19:39]  When you're doing that final crucible event of boot camp to earn that Eagle Globe and anchor, it's a 54 culminating, 54 hour culminating event of everything you've learned, trained to do no sleep, little food.
[00:19:56]  You're, as you always are in the Marine Corps, cold, wet, hungry, and absolutely miserable.
[00:20:03]  But in those moments, and you're going through all of these obstacles in the crucible, and when you're the most run down and when you need it the most, your drill instructors stop you.
[00:20:14]  And every obstacle, there's a plaque.
[00:20:18]  And it tells of the courageous and superhuman Marines that came before you.
[00:20:27]  Those generations of Marines that, at 17, 18, 19 years old, when no one made them, they not only raise their right hand, like every generation has so amazingly done, but raise their right hand.
[00:20:47]  They got on those landing crafts and were told you're probably not even going to make it to have a chance to get out of that landing craft and if you do, there's just as low of a chance that you're going to make it onto the beach or past the beach.
[00:21:04]  Those marines that covered grenades for their fellow marines in Vietnam.
[00:21:08]  The marines that died and froze to death fighting in Korea to try to give those people, like in Afghanistan, a better way of life, to wake up one day and just taste peace, freedom and hope.

=== Finding Peace in the Void (15:52) ===

[00:21:24]  And so to hear these stories, I just remember sitting there and thinking, first of all how, and second of all, you know it.
[00:21:43]  It just makes you realize the uniform, that that you have on, and the, the legacy and the sacrifice and courage and again, generations that have worn that uniform and came before you.
[00:21:59]  So, with all of that said that day on the roof, even though I don't remember the moments leading up to it or thinking about it, i'm thankful and proud that I stepped up.
[00:22:14]  Does it surprise you that you, you were of that mindset that I does it looking, not being able to recognize that you did that, not having no memory of that uh, does it surprise you that you did that?
[00:22:36]  Yes absolutely, and uh, but uh, the beautiful thing about it is uh and, and this is the way I end the book.
[00:22:55]  But people tell me all the time, you know, I just don't think I could have done what you did.
[00:23:06]  I don't think I could cover a grenade, even for my closest loved ones.
[00:23:10]  I just don't think I could bring myself to do that.
[00:23:14]  And ironically, the last conversation I was having before we got hit with my buddy on the roof is what happens because we have been getting attacked for non-stop the 24 hours leading up to this moment.
[00:23:28]  But, you know, what happens when they throw a grenade up here?
[00:23:33]  Half joking to lighten the mood because it had been eerily quiet for the four hours leading up to this attack.
[00:23:42]  But he said, hey, I'm off the roof.
[00:23:45]  And I said, I'm right behind you.
[00:23:49]  But with that said, that is, and just this book as a whole is a journey of the human spirit.
[00:23:58]  And those moments on the roof show that the beauty in the human spirit is you never know how, when, or to what capacity you're going to step up for your fellow man, for your fellow human, and big or small, how you're going to be a savior and a hero to those around you.
[00:24:27]  So I think some of the people who talk a big game and, you know, you would expect to be heroes.
[00:24:36]  Some of them will not be.
[00:24:39]  Others that you would never expect to do this miraculous thing do.
[00:24:46]  I brought my kids to Auschwitz years ago because I believe the world is heading towards just catastrophe and hatred and groups and all of this stuff.
[00:24:56]  And I said to them, this is when people decide what they're going to do and who they're going to be.
[00:25:04]  It's never in the moment.
[00:25:06]  It's never in the moment.
[00:25:09]  It's not like you ever thought, am I going to jump on a grenade?
[00:25:12]  But it was those things that you did to know who you really are, what you believe, who you fight for and who your teammates are around you.
[00:25:28]  And then it just automatically kicks in.
[00:25:32]  Do you think that's true or not?
[00:25:34]  I completely agree.
[00:25:36]  I completely agree.
[00:25:38]  Which is why you're surprised that you did it because it wasn't, you weren't thinking, you're not thinking, oh, geez, this will really, I might die.
[00:25:46]  It just happens.
[00:25:48]  Absolutely.
[00:25:49]  I mean, going off what you just said, I think you really take any aspect of life and very few things are ever in the moment.
[00:26:01]  Very few things ever come up without the ability to have steps of preparation beforehand.
[00:26:11]  And many times you might not know exactly where those steps will take you, clearly.
[00:26:18]  But I think you're exactly right.
[00:26:21]  I think it's very rare, if ever, just strictly in the moment and only in the moment.
[00:26:28]  And it's what our moms were trying to say.
[00:26:31]  I think when they say, show me your friends, I'll show you your future.
[00:26:34]  It's not that they're going to drag you down there or anything else, but you're training yourself to think like that, to be like that, to accept that.
[00:26:44]  And if that's how you're training yourself to be, that's generally who you will be.
[00:26:52]  I was struck by, you know, your name of your book is You Are Worth It.
[00:26:58]  But building a life worth fighting for, I don't think most people understand.
[00:27:09]  I think only those who have had real struggles understand that life and every bit of it is a choice.
[00:27:20]  And if you just let it happen to you, you're probably going to not be very fulfilled and happy and you're probably going to end up a little bitter, you know?
[00:27:30]  But if you understand, I am only a product of what I choose to build, life changes.
[00:27:40]  Did you understand that before your grenade?
[00:27:48]  Or was that something you discovered after that, okay, now I have this massive issue and I'm going to have to rebuild?
[00:28:03]  I think I understood it about as, well, I think I understood it just about as well as any teenager or kid growing up could.
[00:28:23]  I saw that if I worked hard off the football field in the weight room, that translated to when the lights turned on.
[00:28:38]  I studied ahead of time, which is always a struggle for most kids growing up.
[00:28:45]  The grades correlate in the classroom.
[00:28:49]  And so I think I understood it a little bit, but did I actually realize it and think about it?
[00:29:00]  Maybe not, but after is where my insight and perspective, because, you know, those trials and tribulations came.
[00:29:12]  I got knocked down.
[00:29:14]  And at times, I was forced to search through the darkness for those silver linings, those faint glimmers of hope.
[00:29:25]  But to answer your question, I think most, mostly after.
[00:29:30]  Yeah.
[00:29:31]  It's interesting.
[00:29:32]  You know, we were just talking about you don't know who you're going to be.
[00:29:35]  You know, it appears to me you have two heroes in your life, at least two heroes in your life, your mom and dad.
[00:29:42]  And in the book, you talk about how dad kind of fell apart when he first heard about it.
[00:29:49]  Mom was strong.
[00:29:50]  Was it that way?
[00:29:51]  No, it was mom was fell apart and dad was strong.
[00:29:54]  And then when they got to the hospital and they first saw you, dad fell apart and mom all of a sudden stepped to the plate.
[00:30:02]  It was a good tag team effort.
[00:30:03]  Yeah.
[00:30:04]  Yeah.
[00:30:04]  A very hard one, but a good one and it worked out.
[00:30:12]  How did your parents help you through all of this?
[00:30:19]  Did you have, what were you, what were you feeling about your life?
[00:30:25]  Because a lot of people would go, my life is over.
[00:30:30]  What were you feeling when you became really aware in the hospital of what you were facing?
[00:30:36]  Yeah, so when I really started to wake up and become aware, it would be easy to think and maybe a lot of people would think instantly negative and this is so detrimental.
[00:30:54]  Instant no hope.
[00:30:56]  But the more I woke up and became more and more lucid, every single realization or every single injury that I had just made me more and more thankful and surprised and really shocked that I was alive.
[00:31:22]  So did you have a moment?
[00:31:23]  I mean, where did the grenade go off?
[00:31:25]  About here?
[00:31:26]  In the upper right quadrant.
[00:31:29]  How did you live?
[00:31:33]  Yeah, there's even still a hole in the roof that you can find on Google Earth from.
[00:31:39]  And that was part of that two-year investigation.
[00:31:43]  Along with the eyewitnesses, they brought a post-blast analysis team, an explosive ordnance disposal team to analyze forensically my gear and the roof.
[00:31:56]  But one of the pieces in that investigation was things in life, blasts, forces take the path of least resistance.
[00:32:07]  And my body armor, backed by my body weight, was stronger and more dense than the roof.
[00:32:15]  So the grenade actually blew down through the roof.
[00:32:18]  Wow.
[00:32:19]  And so they found me face down, face first in the crater and with the seat of the blast where it exploded under me.
[00:32:31]  But you religious guy?
[00:32:35]  I am.
[00:32:36]  Were you religious before then?
[00:32:38]  I was.
[00:32:38]  Yeah.
[00:32:40]  So there has to be something that goes on in your head with a guy who doesn't, isn't prone to thinking poor me.
[00:32:48]  There has to be, what was I saved for?
[00:32:53]  Yeah.
[00:32:55]  And I, you know, after all of this, a lot of people think that, oh, you know, your faith and your religion must be stronger than ever and completely unshakable now.
[00:33:18]  And I don't believe any less, but what I went through has unfortunately planted and given me more questions than I had before.
[00:33:38]  Because when I when I closed my eyes for what I thought was the last time and the lights went out, it was, I can't even say darkness because I feel like to know darkness, you have to have a cognizant thought process.
[00:34:06]  So I guess the only way I can, at least right now, accurately describe it is just nothing.
[00:34:15]  Avoid.
[00:34:16]  A void, exactly, and I...
[00:34:18]  But you were aware of the void.
[00:34:21]  After I woke up.
[00:34:23]  Correct.
[00:34:24]  And so, and you know, I was resuscitated three times when I got to the first combat trauma hospital.
[00:34:32]  In my medical record on paper, it has PEA beside my name, pulsaless electrical activity.
[00:34:40]  And so, you know, I'm still working through that.
[00:34:46]  I'm still thinking about that.
[00:34:49]  And like with many of the daunting and tough, impossible questions of life, I think the way the reason they are those questions is because a lot of times, no matter what we do, maybe just living and figuring out those answers as we continue on, they might come to us.
[00:35:11]  But I think they are a lot of times the daunting and difficult questions because no matter what we do, we can't have an answer or we can't rush those answers.
[00:35:23]  We have to find it ourselves.
[00:35:25]  Exactly.
[00:35:26]  Faith is an important part.
[00:35:27]  Exactly.
[00:35:30]  But why has it bothered you?
[00:35:32]  I mean, you don't remember doing it.
[00:35:34]  What happened?
[00:35:35]  You don't remember all of that.
[00:35:38]  why has this void bothered you why would you i'm just trying to say you You don't remember so much.
[00:35:47]  Why do you just remember that so vividly and clearly?
[00:35:51]  Well, I think, like much of my journey, it's been an evolution mentally, physically, and emotionally.
[00:36:03]  And so the first few years after everything happened, I was frustrated that I couldn't remember the actual moment.
[00:36:13]  And that was probably amplified times 100 because not because I was just organically frustrated, but the entire world, the military and teams of people out there were, you know, from the ground in Afghanistan to the Pentagon, were looking into, scrutinizing newspapers, media.
[00:36:42]  Everyone was looking into these few seconds of my life that as much as I wanted to, I could not and probably was never going to be able to remember.
[00:36:56]  And so, and it wasn't frustration that I was worried that one story might come out and then another story.
[00:37:07]  And then I might seem like, even though I didn't really even have testimony or a word in all of this, that I just might seem illegitimate.

=== Stepping Up as a Friend and Marine (03:20) ===

[00:37:16]  But then I thought, you know, my Marines that were there with me, no matter what happens, they know who I am, the person I am.
[00:37:25]  And just one day thinking about it, I finally, it just hit me and I realized how wrong of A mindset and a thought process, this was that I should just be so unbelievably grateful and thankful that I woke up to even be frustrated at this and that I'm alive.
[00:37:49]  And so, from that second that I had that realization on, I've never once got frustrated or been out of shape about not being able to remember those events again.
[00:38:01]  So, was part of that frustration because I think I'm hearing you say because you couldn't remember it, you were afraid this was a fraud.
[00:38:10]  Well, no, it's just um or you were unworthy.
[00:38:16]  Well, you know, newspapers articles came out, and the titles were, did Lance Corporal Carpenter cover this grenade or not?
[00:38:24]  So, there was all of that talk going on.
[00:38:27]  And then the Marine Corps and investigators had called me, were you know talking to everyone that was there, and just there was just so much rhetoric going on just about moments in my life that I myself didn't have.
[00:38:46]  So, I think it was just a mix of everything, and um, you know, it wasn't so much the fraud thing, it was just that I guess I couldn't contribute to these moments in my own life.
[00:39:01]  Um, do you feel like you deserve the Medal of Honor?
[00:39:06]  I never got asked that before.
[00:39:10]  Feel worthy of it.
[00:39:14]  I am proud of how I stepped up as a friend and Marine when I needed to be.
[00:39:29]  And as beautiful of a burden and heavy as the metal is and such responsibility, I am humbled that I have a platform that I can use to connect with,
[00:39:58]  encourage, and help others, and also educate and bring to light so many stories that there wasn't Medal of Honors.
[00:40:14]  Whether that was because no one around them survived to tell the tale or somewhere in some crazy paperwork process, it maybe just didn't happen.
[00:40:29]  So you realize that's the way somebody who's worthy of that medal would answer that question.

=== Overcoming Fear Through Failure (07:03) ===

[00:40:37]  well that's i guess another uh thinking point that i need to uh go to bat brainstorming on but um talk to me a little bit about um in your recovery process you talk about in the book how um you're gonna go on a mud run You're talking about skydiving and mom and dad are like, God, Lord.
[00:41:06]  No, please.
[00:41:07]  Don't.
[00:41:09]  And you get to this point to where you're like, I can't be afraid.
[00:41:14]  Can you talk about that?
[00:41:16]  Well, first of all, when you have to do this to me, mom already says that for the rest of her life, I should be funding her hair color treatments.
[00:41:26]  So, but yes.
[00:41:31]  And actually specifically speaking about the mud run and looking back, you know, now it still makes me a little nervous thinking about some of those very high, slippery, muddy obstacles, you know, while I was doing those, how wrong that could have gone.
[00:41:53]  But going into that mud run, and I was only maybe halfway through my three years of recovery, but leading up to that mud run, I really sat down and I always try to think about things deeply and really self-reflect and not only on where I've been, but also where I'm going.
[00:42:20]  And as I was thinking about that mud run, still surgeries left to go, I just thought, you know, if I don't do this, what else is that going to lead to?
[00:42:35]  And this is part of you building yourself back up.
[00:42:39]  Correct.
[00:42:40]  Because you always had like a short thing, didn't you?
[00:42:43]  Didn't you always kind of have an like I'm short and I'm a little guy and you know well, I think that's just, that's just obvious.
[00:42:52]  Anyone that us easy.
[00:42:54]  I don't ever think I had to make it known um, but so you?
[00:42:59]  But you had to kind of do things to make sure that you were like, no, it doesn't stop me from doing anything.
[00:43:06]  So you're now back at that place, except with different reasons for saying, and you're right, growing up on the football field and in the weight room and things like that, it not that I ever just put it out there.
[00:43:18]  Hey, you know, i'm this small guy that's trying to prove something.
[00:43:21]  But when I did prove something uh, it was, you know nice, rubbing it into the uh, the older, bigger guys, the guys that were above five foot five right, uh.
[00:43:32]  But not only was I thinking okay, if I don't do this, what will that lead to?
[00:43:39]  But also, if I do break my arm, is that better than not doing it and living with that regret?
[00:43:50]  And so just working through thought process like that.
[00:43:53]  But you know, I did it and I did not do another one.
[00:43:57]  But i'm very thankful I did and I just like many parts of my journey, doing that challenge, pushing myself through that, especially during my time in the hospital and when I was still rediscovering myself and building this new life.
[00:44:18]  Um, it taught me, and it taught me that I can do more than I think I can right now and i'm not, you know, just getting back to this new, banged up person.
[00:44:35]  I'm getting back to you, a new, potentially even bigger and better me and Kyle.
[00:44:48]  So, are you there?
[00:44:49]  Are you a better?
[00:44:51]  Are you?
[00:44:52]  This sounds so bad um, but I understand.
[00:44:58]  My father taught me this when I was young, after my mom had a suicide.
[00:45:02]  You know she's.
[00:45:03]  She committed suicide and alcoholic, family divorce blah blah, blah.
[00:45:07]  Everything was going.
[00:45:08]  By the time I was 30, I was like, poor me, and my father taught me that in a very clever way That there is no bad.
[00:45:18]  It's what you do with it.
[00:45:20]  And so I look at all the tragedies, you know, and I think, well, I wouldn't want to go through that again and I wouldn't assign that to somebody.
[00:45:31]  It made me who I am.
[00:45:33]  And I'm a better, stronger person because of my failures or because of whatever.
[00:45:37]  Are you a better person today than you were?
[00:45:40]  Absolutely.
[00:45:42]  And I would not trade anything that I've been through, even that moment on the roof.
[00:45:48]  Now, do I wish I could have taken the entire blast and Nick could have walked away perfectly unharmed and completely fine?
[00:46:00]  And even if I wouldn't have woken up in the hospital five weeks later, yes.
[00:46:06]  even the grenade wasn't thrown on the roof?
[00:46:15]  No, I uh...
[00:46:17]  You're grateful for the grenade?
[00:46:19]  I am.
[00:46:21]  Wow.
[00:46:22]  I am.
[00:46:24]  Because who I am now, you know, just in a selfish me sense.
[00:46:33]  You seem pretty selfish.
[00:46:38]  The experiences I've had, the people I've met, the journey I've had has, you know, been incredible.
[00:46:50]  So do you ever watch TV or listen to people that are constantly whining about how their life is so bad?
[00:47:01]  And, you know, Greta Thurnberg, and I don't, I don't want to get you into names and stuff, but, you know, that 16-year-old kid, you stole my childhood.
[00:47:09]  Do you ever just watch people on TV and go, are you kidding me?
[00:47:15]  Are you kidding me?
[00:47:18]  I went through this and I'm happy and I'm actually don't, I don't think I'd want my grenade, my life, to be gone.
[00:47:28]  And you're bitching about your grenade?
[00:47:31]  That's a good thing.
[00:47:33]  Do you ever, are you always just very empathetic and kind?
[00:47:38]  Both.
[00:47:40]  Both.

=== Kindness, Grace, and Empathy (14:24) ===

[00:47:41]  And it's a healthy amount of both.
[00:47:43]  But one thing I've realized through my journey is struggle is the last thing we should ever compare.
[00:47:58]  And although it's maybe natural too, because you can't not, when you hear other struggles, you obviously can't forget about your struggles.
[00:48:12]  But I think to compare struggle or who has it worse or who's been through more is a very dangerous thing and can lead to very unhealthy things and a very unhealthy mindset.
[00:48:34]  But maybe a story to kind of illustrate this is I did my three years at Walter Reed.
[00:48:42]  I used my last six, eight months there, which was just a medical board paperwork process to allow me to medically retire.
[00:48:50]  I had completed all my surgeries and therapy.
[00:48:53]  And I used my time towards the end there to do two internships and start working on redoing my SAT and ACT test, writing college admissions, paperwork.
[00:49:08]  I got a tutor to start coming to the hospital to help me do that.
[00:49:13]  And so after three years in the hospital, right before that, I was toting machine guns through Afghanistan.
[00:49:20]  Two weeks after I left the hospital, I was moving into my new apartment in Columbia, South Carolina, and walking to freshman classes.
[00:49:34]  And daily, if not daily, weekly, students came up to me and it just obviously was much more during my sophomore year after I received the medal.
[00:49:50]  But so many times they would run up and say, oh, you're the guy that won the Purple Heart.
[00:49:59]  You're like, no, kind of, but I didn't enter the annual win of Purple Heart competition, you know.
[00:50:07]  And also, I, you know, realized that probably, by the way, you're asking, you don't know the difference between the Medal of Honor and the Purple Heart.
[00:50:18]  But during those moments, I'm thankful that I realized, because I had to take a deep breath a couple of times.
[00:50:27]  And I had to realize that just like we said at the beginning, every encounter, every opportunity, every crossroads in life, good or bad, is a choice.
[00:50:41]  And it presents you with the choice.
[00:50:44]  And in that moment, I could have got frustrated, told them what I could have in a very marine, aggressive-like manner.
[00:51:00]  But not only would that have probably turned them off from me, but it would have Giving them what they might think is an idea of how all Marines are.
[00:51:15]  And they wouldn't have gotten properly educated on the difference between the Purple Heart and the Medal of Honor.
[00:51:24]  And the fact that we don't set out to win these medals.
[00:51:30]  It's interesting.
[00:51:31]  It was FDR that changed the Purple Heart.
[00:51:34]  We didn't discover the Purple Heart that comes from the badge of merit from Washington in the Revolutionary War.
[00:51:41]  It was the first award given to an enlisted man in the history of battle.
[00:51:51]  And it was actually a Purple Heart, and it said on it, merit.
[00:51:55]  And you would sew it to your uniform.
[00:51:58]  Oh, interesting.
[00:52:00]  And you were put into his, I think it was called the Book of Remembrance, because he believed that if we were going to win against England, we had to be people that were good and honorable and decent.
[00:52:17]  And if you were caught doing something of merit, if you were doing something good, that's how you got the Purple Heart.
[00:52:26]  We only rediscovered this turn of last century.
[00:52:30]  There's only three Purple Hearts left from the Revolutionary War.
[00:52:34]  And the book is gone.
[00:52:37]  But you did earn the Purple Heart, just not the way that the FDR from that point on says it.
[00:52:51]  But you earned it the way Washington did.
[00:52:54]  We didn't have a Medal of Honor back then.
[00:52:56]  It was the Purple Heart.
[00:53:00]  So you deserve both of them for now and back then.
[00:53:07]  You write in your book, I want to read a part.
[00:53:13]  Not long ago, I'm walking down town in Columbia.
[00:53:18]  I passed two homeless men talking on the street.
[00:53:21]  I just came from a meeting, was dressed up, and one of them said kindly, looking sharp, brother.
[00:53:26]  I thanked them.
[00:53:27]  And I admit, I waited for the follow-up question if I had any money.
[00:53:31]  But as I continued walking, nothing else was said.
[00:53:35]  I reached my car, but I couldn't shake him from my mind.
[00:53:39]  Half my brain was telling me to turn around and talk to him, and the other half was telling me just to forget about it and drive away.
[00:53:45]  I stood there with the car door open, wrestling with myself what I should do.
[00:53:50]  It seemed silly to walk all the way back there, but I couldn't get into my car.
[00:53:54]  I didn't know what I was doing.
[00:53:56]  But I thought to myself, what if this is the last time you see this nice man?
[00:54:02]  I think we as people have this thought all the time.
[00:54:08]  All the time.
[00:54:10]  And we have that argument in our head all the time.
[00:54:18]  And most of us ignore it.
[00:54:23]  But it makes a difference if you act on that and exercise that muscle every time, doesn't it?
[00:54:31]  Absolutely.
[00:54:33]  And you never know what touching moments or impact.
[00:54:41]  Impact and just powerful, for me, emotional.
[00:54:48]  I mean, that story, shout out to my man Kenny, by the way.
[00:54:52]  But emotional, I mean, that story still chokes me up because we go on to talk and he asked me, and I offered to go get him some snacks at the college market up the street.
[00:55:09]  And he asked me, hey, can you get me some cigarettes?
[00:55:13]  And immediately pointed out that he doesn't smoke.
[00:55:16]  So of course I had to ask, you know, anybody needs cigarettes if you don't smoke.
[00:55:21]  And he told me that cigarettes are like gold down at the homeless shelter, that he can sell each one for $2.
[00:55:31]  And then that allows him to get more food, you know, for the days ahead.
[00:55:36]  And so I'm so thankful I did.
[00:55:38]  And you're right.
[00:55:40]  I think we are presented with those dilemmas, opportunities, situations all the time.
[00:55:49]  And I'm just, I'm proud of myself, but I'm thankful that I didn't shut the car door and I turned around because it taught me a valuable life lesson.
[00:56:03]  And it just reminded me that, you know, life is life is not only choices, but it's something that you choose the lenses you look through.
[00:56:23]  And we always have to strive to continue to remind ourselves and to understand and empathize that there are so many people in this country,
[00:56:44]  around the world, that wake up every day and from...
[00:56:55]  not knowing what school is to not having shoes on their feet, to not knowing where their next meal is going to come from, and so um did you.
[00:57:13]  There's a difference between kindness, being gracious um, being helpful, um even being caring, and empathy.
[00:57:27]  Empathy is, i've lived it, I know it.
[00:57:32]  I can feel your pain, Not just see it, but I can feel it.
[00:57:39]  Do you think your journey has given that to you or have you always had that empathetic side?
[00:57:50]  I think I've always had it, but my journey has heightened it and continuously refines it, which might not be the perfect word.
[00:58:03]  I think empathy, I think this is, I think it's like a muscle.
[00:58:06]  I think the more you listen to that voice and you make the choice of don't get into the car, it gets stronger.
[00:58:16]  Yeah, and maybe it really started when I was in high school.
[00:58:20]  I went on a mission trip to the Dominican Republic.
[00:58:24]  And for a week there, we built a couple of schools and churches and just hung out with the local kids, played soccer.
[00:58:34]  But it was so just so profound to me when we got there.
[00:58:45]  And we were walking and making our way to this neighborhood where we were going to help and work.
[00:58:53]  And as we got closer, we were working our way down into a landfill.
[00:59:00]  We get to the bottom of this landfill and there are shacks all over the place.
[00:59:08]  And the people there, not only could they have not been happier.
[00:59:14]  I mean, they amazing, struggling every day of their lives, but so happy and just so thankful for us to bring a soccer ball to them.
[00:59:26]  And so I think I've always been empathetic growing up, but when that happened, that really planted that seed of empathy.
[00:59:38]  And I got to truly see not everywhere in the world is like the southeast of the United States growing up.
[00:59:49]  And so I'm so like many parts of my journey, I'm so thankful for that.
[00:59:53]  But that's very interesting.
[00:59:57]  It is like a muscle.
[00:59:58]  I would agree with you.
[01:00:00]  Last thing from your book.
[01:00:02]  For weeks afterward, I would wake up wondering, now what?
[01:00:07]  Every morning started with a question for which I didn't have an answer, except to do whatever the next thing was that day.
[01:00:15]  I developed a daily mantra, and I still say something similar to myself each morning.
[01:00:21]  I don't know what I want to do, or how I'm going to do it, or where I might end up, but as long as I work hard, try to do the right thing, try to be a good person, and try to help people, I can't go wrong doing that.
[01:00:36]  You kind of dismiss that as, you know, you say, that's not the profound piece of wisdom that, you know, has ever been uttered.
[01:00:47]  But I think this is why your story is so important and impactful is it's really back to basics.
[01:00:57]  We've lost the basics.
[01:01:00]  I was raised believing that.
[01:01:03]  A lot of people don't believe that anymore.
[01:01:07]  But if you just work hard, try to do the right thing, be kind to people, things will work out and it'll be good.
[01:01:17]  And on top of that, I think it's important to remind people that you don't always have to have a perfect plan.
[01:01:31]  One of the favorite lines in my book is, the smallest of steps eventually completes the grandest of journeys.
[01:01:38]  And after that first initial three months of recovery at Walter Reed in Richmond, Virginia, at the time, instead of going back up to Walter Reed, late 2010 through 2011, there were so many casualties coming in that at one point they started overflowing beds into the hallway.

=== Small Steps Complete Grand Journeys (08:24) ===

[01:02:05]  And every room had two patients in it.
[01:02:09]  And so knowing that I had many years left for them to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, they allowed me, and also getting to know my family over those months, those initial months that I was there,
[01:02:25]  knowing that my family was going to really look out and take care of me, and they allowed me to go home to recover from March until that September of 2011 when a new very nice wounded warrior barracks building was going to open up on Walter Reed that they were currently under construction.
[01:02:49]  And so it was March, April timeframe, and I, it was around 10 o'clock at night, another long day of therapy.
[01:03:02]  And anyone listening to clarify, the agreement was that I could go home and recover, get mom's food, hang out with the dog, lay on the couch, as long as we agreed that mom would drive me back up to DC every two weeks to get another surgery.
[01:03:21]  And I would do therapy at my local clinic in Lexington, South Carolina.
[01:03:28]  And so I was at home again about 10 o'clock at night, and I went to take on the daunting task of making myself a bowl of cereal.
[01:03:43]  And at the time, I hadn't had the nerve surgeries to repair those what are now connections, but at the time were breaks in my nerves.
[01:03:57]  So my wrists hung really bad.
[01:03:59]  I was down on my weight, no muscle on my arms.
[01:04:03]  The milk might as well have been a hundred-pound dumbbell.
[01:04:07]  I got it out.
[01:04:09]  I poured the cereal, but it was a struggle to hold the spoon.
[01:04:15]  The grenade blew most of my teeth out, and I was still many facial and oral reconstructive surgeries away from having any sort of form or teeth in there.
[01:04:27]  Because my face was damaged so badly, the nerves and my face were severed as well.
[01:04:34]  And so I finally championed the task, mission accomplished.
[01:04:39]  I made the bowl of cereal, but that was only half the battle.
[01:04:43]  Now I had to try to eat it.
[01:04:45]  I'm sitting in the kitchen counter and I can't really feel it, but I know milk is going everywhere.
[01:04:53]  And in that moment, I completely broke.
[01:05:00]  I mean, to my core.
[01:05:04]  And I know it was because not only was I frustrated with the task at hand, but for the previous three or four months, I had been so strong, forcing myself to be so strong and positive, not show any pain, put a smile on my face every day because I'm the one that joined.
[01:05:26]  I raised my right hand.
[01:05:28]  Now my parents are visibly suffering through this burden of recovery with me.
[01:05:36]  And that has been by far the hardest part of my whole journey, seeing them on the other side of that hospital bed.
[01:05:43]  And, you know, as a caretaker, wounded warrior or not, I think at times it's harder to be on the other side of that bed, to not be able to help with the pain, to see that person trying to breathe through that tube and straw in their neck for every breath, to see the tears come because the pain is so great, you can't even pretend to mask it.
[01:06:08]  And so I had been so strong, but in that moment, it was also the first time, probably since I joined the Marine Corps, that I had been completely by myself in silence with only me, my banged up body, and the thoughts that were in my head and the ringing in my ears.
[01:06:32]  And so I completely broke.
[01:06:34]  My mom ran in.
[01:06:35]  She was in the other room in the living room.
[01:06:38]  She rushed in.
[01:06:39]  She thought I was in pain, asking me, you know, what happened?
[01:06:44]  What's wrong?
[01:06:45]  And through the sobs, I just choked out, look at me, who's ever going to love me again?
[01:06:54]  But in life, many times, the most difficult of times teach us the most beautiful of lessons.
[01:07:07]  And so I'm so thankful that I decided to try to make that cereal and eat it.
[01:07:13]  And I'm so thankful that I broke in that moment because it gave me a lifelong lesson and realization that I still carry with me every single day and that I present to everyone, anyone I talk to, people that read the book.
[01:07:34]  And this is going to be a tough pill to swallow for some people.
[01:07:41]  But you have to realize that no matter what happens in life, no matter how hard you get knocked down or blown up, you cut out the noise.
[01:08:02]  And you truly only have two choices, two options.
[01:08:09]  And that is, this is what I'm so thankful I realized.
[01:08:15]  You can either get up and take that small step, or you're going to sit at that kitchen counter for the rest of your life.
[01:08:26]  And again, you don't have to have a perfect plan.
[01:08:29]  You don't have to know exactly what you're doing, what the next day holds, what even the next hour of therapy in that session holds.
[01:08:38]  All you have to know is, again, the smallest of steps eventually completes the grandest of journeys.
[01:08:44]  And you might be physically, mentally, and emotionally different after getting knocked down.
[01:08:53]  But even if you are, it's completely okay.
[01:08:56]  We all have our own unique struggles.
[01:09:00]  We all heal in our own time.
[01:09:03]  But even after getting knocked down, if you're physically, mentally, emotionally different, you can still come back better and stronger than you were before.
[01:09:16]  You might be missing an eye.
[01:09:18]  You might have a lobster claw for a hand.
[01:09:23]  But you can come back and run a marathon, jump out of a plane, run a mud run and drive your mom crazy.
[01:09:35]  It's okay to struggle.
[01:09:38]  It's okay to not be the same.
[01:09:41]  And with that said, exactly what you're saying earlier, learn from those times that you get knocked down and those hard moments.
[01:09:52]  Learn who you really are.
[01:09:54]  Learn and know and realize that you can push yourself past any limits that you thought were your limits.
[01:10:05]  You can always strive to become the best version of yourself.
[01:10:14]  It's an honor to talk to you.
[01:10:16]  Thank you very much.
[01:10:17]  It's an honor to meet you.
[01:10:19]  And I can't wait to see what your life is like in 10 years or 15 years from now.
[01:10:25]  Your journey has just begun.
[01:10:27]  God bless.
[01:10:28]  I appreciate that, sir.