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Jan. 12, 2026 - Gray Area - Rex Jones & Tim Tompkins
03:16:23
Exclusive Interview: LIVE with Sulaiman Ahmed! - Gray Area LIVE #41

Join Rex and Tim for a interview/discussion/talk stream and episode with Sulaiman Ahmed! Discussing Geopolitics, Current Events and more!

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Time Text
New Groyper on Reddit.
New Groyper on Reddit.
Do we have audio?
Oh, yeah, we do.
Yes, we do.
Welcome to episode 41.
How are we doing, guys?
Should we switch?
Should I switch over to Rumble or YouTube?
Honestly, it's your choice.
We see your comments either way.
We saw you in Rumble.
Sometimes things don't come through on X, but YouTube and Rumble seems to not.
But X is where all the parties happen in, man.
Right, it's where all the fun's at.
Yeah.
All right.
How are we doing tonight, guys?
Yeah, how are we doing?
You know, I've been enjoying doing the solo shows.
It feels good to go live every day, like around the same time.
So it's kind of just getting habitual at this point, which is good, and that's what you want.
You want it to be ultimately like a comfy work routine if you're going to do work, right?
So, sitting here having a good time.
We got some stories to get into, but we're really waiting on Suleiman to join us here at 8.
That is going to be a nice interview, just kind of conversation.
Look, I know some people are like, why are we platforming this guy?
Why is he platforming us?
He's got 800k on Twitter.
Exactly.
So all of this is to say is that the whole point of the gray area, guys, is so that we can have conversations across the aisle.
doesn't mean we have to agree on everything but it also doesn't mean we don't you know i might agree with more with him than you even you know some of the middle east discussions that we've had and we're going to get into some interesting stuff you know i i really enjoy broadcasts that are outside of the u.s i enjoy watching like a george galloway for an example or a dialogue works with nema in brazil and it'll be interesting i'm very excited because i've seen on his twitter i've seen him repost some like john meersheimer and some other people on there as well
I want to talk to him about kind of the news he watches and how he gets his information.
I'd be very interested in that.
I think y 'all could get a lot of value out of finding alternative news sources outside of the U .S. for these world events.
Yeah, I mean, and look, people outside of the U .S. follow the U .S., and they have a lot to say, but then they also bring other perspectives.
So that was actually one of the big values that he has.
What's going on with their stream?
It's not the stream.
it's see that it's a little glitch from the uh visual but i don't know i think it's the camera but interesting cool feature for tonight a little little bug but welcome to the show you know it's kind of retro it kind of fits the uh intro it does with the tv you're right we're we're broadcasting from the vault you know oh and and god we're working on some new software, some new updates.
It's alive!
It's alive, and we actually figured out what was going on with the whole audio situation.
It wasn't sharing the right audio.
It should be good now, and we should never have that problem again.
But we will be shortly changing to a different software to allow for us to have a switcher, pull up stuff for us.
That way we can focus on giving you guys honest content.
So Andrew, you guys haven't met him, but he's going to be our Jamie.
He's awesome.
Phenomenal guy.
Great guy.
Super great helping us out.
He actually used to be a caller, and he called into the show.
Friend of the show.
So, yeah, the on -air sign is broken.
Yeah, it's broken.
I know.
The stream's glitching a little bit.
We're doing a lot of upgrades, but upgrades take time.
It takes time.
I know.
I wanted the on -air sign.
I think the batteries are dead, to be honest.
It's the battery, and it's also the bulb.
The bulb is dim.
It's a bold issue.
The camera thing is weird because that's never happened before.
It's the camera itself, I guarantee.
The good thing is we have more.
We can just swap it.
Do you want to look at this?
Yeah, let's get into it.
Our guest, he's from Pakistan.
He's national, UK.
He's ethnically Pakistani.
This is right in his backyard.
This is his wheelhouse.
This guy, and we're going to get into it later, I want to ask him just how much of the protest operation is in fact funded by the other side.
This is crazy.
This is a crazy feat of athleticism.
I'm a normal person who's not going to be able to do this.
The sound is coming around.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
I'm going to take that on the fly.
Shit, this is harder than I thought.
This is not easy to do.
I'm glad I can't do it.
He's just going to get himself arrested and fine.
Nothing can happen to this guy.
He's going to get caught.
This is what the UK would want.
At the end of the day, they want regime change just like we do.
This is the old flag.
Every second or third word is cutting out.
Is it cutting out now when we talk?
Look at that.
Your mics sound underwater.
Sounds good now.
Okay, so it is the problem of we can't talk when we play clips still.
Because of StreamYard.
So stupid.
Sorry to subject y 'all to the underwater cavern time.
We didn't mean to do that.
Don't worry, we are switching software very soon.
Yeah, and at least we get to talk now that the video is off.
You're right.
I've been watching videos back and it does do that.
Now that I think about it.
Guys, we're a growing show.
I'm working very actively on getting a better software for us to handle all that.
Apparently, Owen's also having this problem.
Very interesting.
Very interesting.
But, you know, I'm excited to ask our guest questions about the region.
I want to know what the people actually support in these various different places, because like we as Americans, like I believe this and I heard this on due distance.
I believe it's true.
I think we're the most propagandized people because we really we don't have an understanding of the world really largely outside of the United States.
We're like, uh, we're in a fishbowl.
I mean, it's like, it's so easy to, uh, when you don't, when your closest neighbor is literally thousands of miles away, besides if you're living on these coastal, uh, We got maple syrup people, and then we got sombrero people, and that's all we have to deal with.
And also, Canada, I know you guys are another country, but you're basically, America and Canada, I can't tell the difference between a Canadian and an American.
Right.
I mean, I work, I have a guy that I work with as part of my company, and he's Canadian, would never be able to tell if he was American or Canadian.
But they say, buddy, you're gay.
Some people do.
I say stuff like that.
Some people definitely do, but a lot of the mannerisms are very same.
If you live like 10 miles from Maine or whatever, it is what it is.
Ultimately, they're a protectorate.
They're like kind of what we want to make Greenland into a little bit, but Greenland more, of course.
54 state.
52nd state.
Yeah, we'll take them both.
Add more stars.
We need to add more stars to the flag.
We need to make it a bigger, more beautiful flag.
Yes, we do.
But everyone's been talking about this.
This has been circulating and going around.
Apparently, this is from years back.
And everyone's like, oh, the hot women are protesting against the Ayatollah.
But apparently, this is from three years ago.
That's not good because of the chemicals.
Because of the printer paper and the ink.
I mean, I've smoked a lot.
I wouldn't do that.
That's a little crazy.
And I'm not going to make the point.
Massive protests in Iran have not stopped for two weeks, even though the Islamic Republic has been cut off the internet and is killing people across the country to silence the demonstrations.
Dozens, perhaps more, of unarmed civilians have been killed, and yet people like this continue to take to the streets.
She's in Canada!
And she's in Canada years back and they're acting like this is happening.
Well, everyone does that, right?
Everyone seems to find like a video that keeps circulating online from previous time periods.
And this is why I kind of like Grok, because when you just somebody just in the chat, I mean, sorry, somebody in the comment section, all they have to do is ask, hey, Grok, is this from like today?
Right.
And I and I would prefer for people to keep doing that because all the time you're getting these wrong pieces of information.
It's a fair point.
It's a fair point.
I just.
But the real protests are crazy, dude.
Yeah, the real protests are crazy, and we got footage of that, and we'll get into that with our guest here.
But they say, oh, the peaceful protesters are being jumped by the evil security forces.
Here's some video of this.
And they're walking over there, and they're like, oh.
We go down for some reason.
A moment to a Iranian security officer swarmed by rioters, beaten to death.
Damn.
yeah that's what happens bro it's like they get on you or they they stone you Mobbed.
That's tough.
And you know what's very interesting about these things, dude?
The people who are the policemen, the guys in the riot gear, they're citizens too.
So they could have a lot of the same beliefs as the people protesting, but because they have a job and they have somebody who's telling them what to do and where they have to be and who they have to kill, You have to take your orders.
You can't dissent.
Well, yeah, and there's like all the protests.
They want to get rid of Ayatollah XYZ.
They've had massive inflation recently.
Yeah.
And that's what the protests are about.
Their currency has literally collapsed.
It's about money.
It's not about wanting the Reza Pavlovi guy back in.
You can see this.
This is serious.
And people don't realize this about Iran because we're Americans and we're like, oh, Americans, oh.
They have 92 million people.
And Tehran is a city of, I believe, 12 million.
It's huge.
It's massive.
So I'm not sure exactly where this is.
Maybe that is Tehran.
Maybe that's somewhere else.
But there are people in the street.
And I'm and I'm seeing people make the conclusion, and there's a very good argument for this, that the United States and a lot of our allies, especially Israel, are going to be using this as an ability to potentially make some attacks.
Now, the U.S. is starting to move assets around under the like they're creating like the same thing they did with the B-2 bombers, where they're creating distractions and moving assets.
But we're moving closer to Iran.
So.
We're going to be in there before the end of the year.
That's my prediction.
I think that's a safe prediction to make.
You were right the first time about it not happening last year.
It's going to happen this year again.
It'll be an actual war.
This is the guy that they want to put in.
This is Squidward.
Because his dad was the old Shaw King dictator, right?
And he was the guy with the military police.
But he was our friend, so that makes it okay.
I've seen him on the PBD podcast, I think.
Really?
Either him or somebody related to him.
Oh, I bet PBD loves him, because PBD wants to go back into his homeland with all that money.
All that money he's made in the West, being friends with the Western people.
Makes a lot of sense to me.
Is he speaking English or no?
Oh, I think so.
I want to hear a little bit.
No, he's speaking.
No, he's not.
What is it, Farsi?
Is that what they speak?
Yeah, Farsi.
Sean, you have not been there in many, many years.
It was 1979 when the Ayatollah came back.
He was in exile in France at the time.
Do you plan on going back?
Do you plan on having free elections?
Have you thought about it?
At the call of my compatriots, I've stepped forward to lead this transition from this tyranny to a future democracy.
My role is to help my compatriots achieve that goal, to bring about a peaceful end by means of a national referendum and a constitutional assembly.
I'm impartial as to what the ultimate result will be so long as it's a secular democracy.
I've trained all my life.
You notice how this guy is like, there's no charisma, there's no wit, there's no mojo to this guy.
They're like, bring him on.
They're like, okay, talk before the show goes off.
Like, 10 seconds before the show goes off.
I will say, when he was on PBD, I thought he was pretty well -spoken.
Maybe he just got the jitters here.
but I don't know enough about the situation to say like, oh, I like this guy or I don't like him.
I mean, between him and Khomeini, I think this guy used to be part of the old...
Oh!
Who's the special friend?
Oh, gosh.
Who's the special friend?
What's going on here?
No, he's the talking head.
I think he used to be part of the old family that was in control.
He was the Shah's son.
Yes.
He was the Shah's son.
So, like, Tush used to feel, I feel for you, buddy.
I really do.
I understand your pain.
But you're not built for it, little bro.
You should have just stayed in Europe.
And grifted.
I'm sure plenty of people gave you money.
Yeah, but between him and Khomeini, I mean, look, he's going to at least bring democracy, right?
I mean, maybe we're not really.
Maybe the Emperor Palpatine version of democracy.
No, you're right, though.
One of the things that's gonna happen, I didn't know that they took this picture together.
But you know that the United States owns this guy.
I got more.
You got more receipts?
I got more.
I got him with the same guy that prolonged the Ukrainian war into what it's turned into now.
It's all one big party, though.
Yeah, it's all one big club.
Yeah, but I'd still, I mean, I would still rather take this guy over Khomeini because he's not going to sit there and attack and promote terrorism.
Well, I mean, what do you define as terrorism?
Hamas and Hezbollah and that's that's because it's it's against Israel's interest for those no it's not just against Israel's interest It's a war between Iran and Israel.
Before Israel was involved, they were actually terrorist groups, though.
Like, there's no, there's no way.
So are you talking about the rebellion with the original Ayatollah?
Is that what you're referring to?
You gotta repeat that.
Are you talking about the rebellion with the original Ayatollah?
No, I'm talking about specifically Hamas.
I'm not denying that those are terrorist groups that have taken terrorist actions.
I'd consider Israel to be a terrorist group as well.
I'd consider the state to be a terrorist group.
Oh!
I was the man who convinced Zelensky to not sign the peace agreement.
Now millions have died.
I've feasted on their blood.
When he was PM, it's funny, thinking back in the 20 -teens, I didn't know who this guy was.
I just knew what he looked like because of the hair.
And they're calling him the British Trump or whatever?
Well, he was the main reason why Brexit went through.
Right.
I mean, he really pushed it.
I wonder if, I got to ask Suleman if he actually agrees with Brexit.
That's actually something that I'm very curious about.
It'll be interesting.
He's about to join us here in a few minutes, right?
Yes, he is.
We're getting we're getting ready for that.
And that's going to be very exciting.
But when you have a guy like this, once they fled, I think once him and his family fled, I mean, the Western society like United States, UK opened these open came, let them in with open arms, almost like when Russia lets in people who fled their countries for like extortion and all those things.
Yeah, I mean, what else is he going to do?
I mean, he needs the backing of some military to actually protect himself because he doesn't have a military.
The thing is, I find us as Americans, we look at the operation, it's like, well, can we do this?
Can we get this done?
Can we achieve our objective of liberating the area or whatever?
And my question is, why should we?
What business is it of ours to mess with these people, to be in their space, to take their stuff, or even make them feel like we're taking their stuff, right?
And the version of America that I think is great is an America that cooperates with other countries and other countries like us based on what we can do for them and what they can do for us in a cooperation relationship.
Certainly.
And when we do these things, it's like, oh, it's the best situation for the American people.
we got maduro in new york and it's just like well like is that good or is it just something that you can feel proud about because there's nothing else to feel proud about right in the country and like That's my critique.
What do you think?
Well, we've got Suleiman on.
Oh, he's joined us now.
Let us know.
Thumbs up when you're ready to go live.
We'll add you to the stage.
I think he's good to go.
Let's go.
All right.
Beautiful, beautiful.
Welcome.
Appreciate you having me on.
How are you?
Doing well, man.
Thanks for coming on.
Thanks for having me.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
and i'm i'm glad you took the time out of your day i know you probably doing some spaces more recently but uh we see you on there all the time Yeah, it's a 24 hour thing almost now There's always breaking news There's always laws.
There's always mayhem and protests.
Yeah.
I wanted to ask you about that.
Sorry to step on you.
No, go ahead there.
I consume a lot of news outside.
I ask you, are you like a, are you a Dialogue Works viewer?
Are you a Mother of All Talk Shows viewer?
Do you enjoy any of those programs or any of those shows?
People like Pepe Escobar, perhaps, or John Mearsheimer?
I think I saw you repost Jeffrey Sachs.
Yeah, I mean, look, I do look at some of the content they may post on X, but I don't really religiously watch anyone's shows or religiously watch anyone's opinions.
It's mainly just reading a lot.
I read a lot.
I am obviously watching the actual footage.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And then look at real -life footage and kind of make my own determination.
Nice.
Now, before you just came on and you had just mentioned protests, we're talking about Iran right now and all the madness.
I'm sure you're completely up to date.
You're a well -versed man.
You're keeping up with the news.
What's your perspective on this, man?
Every day, it's a new development.
It's something changing constantly.
Yeah, well, with Iran, they've wanted to basically overthrow Iran for the state of Israel for a very long time.
And the reason, obviously, is because Israel wants autonomy and control over the region.
Now, the hope or aim was, I mean, I don't know how far back you want to go on this, but.
Yeah, I mean, even if you look at it historically, as you know, when the Brits found out that there was oil in the 19th century, there's always been this need or want to have control over Iran.
And as you know, basically after the World War, the kind of bait and switch the Americans did, they kind of took control over the resources in Iran.
And you had the democracy, they helped overthrow democracy.
Then you had um the monarchy, and then they overthrew the monarchy and then now you've basically got the um, kind of like theocracy uh, which is basically um being represented by the ayatollah.
Currently now, the issue with Iran is obviously it is religious, it's based on Shia Islam um, and what the problem?
The main problem they have with Iran is that it's it's negative view of Israel.
Because if you look in the region, it essentially is that whichever countries, because you've got Muslim countries there, you've got Muslim countries who have good relations with Israel in the United States Of America, and then you have Muslim countries that have Not great relationships.
And so, therefore, being a Muslim clearly isn't the factor that comes into whether you're going to have a good relationship with Israel and the United States of America.
But what in reality is, is whether what your relationship is like with Israel.
Now, as you guys know, like through the clean break memo and various other documents, it was quite clear that Israel's plan or the United States are both in conjunction.
I mean, I believe Israel is controlling the US, but I understand other people may think it's the other way around.
But the plan was always to take control of that region, to expand Israel.
Some people call it the Great Israel Project.
But even if you don't consider or believe in the Great Israel Project, because that will result in taking a certain part of Saudi Arabia, what is clearly the case is there is this expansionist idea that has occurred from 1948 to date.
And Iran is a clear problem with that.
Iraq was initially, and they've obviously were able to overthrow Saddam Hussein.
And Iran is the major problem now.
They believed, if we bring it to recent history, they believed that during the 12 -day war, that was going to be enough to take Iran out.
There was a 12 -day war.
You saw the full might of Israel be used against Iran.
You had all of its allies against Iran.
So, for example, you had Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt.
Jordan and Egypt were intercepting missiles Saudi Arabia were helping with and Saudi Arabia were helping with military bases, the other GCC countries were helping with refueling, even Qatar was helping with refueling, you had what to call it again, you had United States of America, UK, France, all helping with refueling so despite all of that what you found was that Iran was penetrating Israel, the defense missiles were running out Iran was hitting in...
We're good to go.
got to a situation where they knew they couldn't take iran out iran was able to go a lot longer what iran's problem was is and this is why iran agreed to the dealers they had they found out on the first day because that's actually where israel succeeded they exceeded on two aspects.
The first one was Trump lying as per what LBJ did in 1960, in the 1967 war, right?
Which was to say that, look, Israel's not going to attack you.
Because remember, even now, is Israel going to attack you?
Yeah, we're going to negotiate and then we attack.
It's crazy.
It's beyond anything.
But go ahead, go ahead.
Exactly, you're right.
So they did the exact playbook again.
And so that's a failure on Iran.
You can't trust Israel or the United States of America.
So they thought there's a negotiation going to happen.
So they basically did not.
They weren't ready for war.
They were even doing military exercises on that day.
And also, in addition to that, what happened was there was a lot of Mossad agents in Iran.
So Israel had successfully infiltrated Iran, which is easy to do because they have a wide range of ethnicities, a wide range of religious beliefs, a wide range of philosophical beliefs, and a wide range of ethnicities and cultures.
So they were able to infiltrate.
So, if you look on the first day, that was the most successful attack by Israel.
And actually, if that was their best chance to take Iran out, because Iran was able to regroup and recalibrate, they got stuck.
And what happened was after that You basically had a scenario where Israel had ran out of defense missiles They were struggling in the war And they had to go to Trump and then Trump negotiated a ceasefire The reason Iran did was because they wanted to get these Infiltrators out of the country That killed a lot of their science That killed a lot of their military personnel So that's what they've been doing for the last six months is to weed out the Mossad agents and to replenish.
So that was the reason the agreement occurred.
But what they saw was this was a problem.
So they had Trump kind of do the B2 bombing.
In my view, it was very minor because I believe that Iran had actually been told and I believe that they were able to take out some of their important nuclear assets and various other things.
I think they moved it too.
There was no way that they knew that they didn't know at some point.
That was clearly in the playbook.
And if we just went and attacked them for no reason without them knowing, it could have escalated into something bigger that the United States doesn't want to get pulled into.
They even allowed a ceremonial strike, right?
They're like, we're going to hit you, you're going to hit us, and that's going to be the end of it for now.
But when do you see this reigniting?
Because that's what we debate all the time.
We're like, when is this going to unfortunately, regrettably, very sadly, going to start again because of US aggression?
I give it a few months.
I give it a few months at max.
Me too.
Excellent, excellent analysis.
I think you're very close because, and we're all just speculating, but the aim was this protest, which you just mentioned, that if these protests had been successful, the ones that basically, they even had Mossad agents on the ground, This has been confirmed by even US personnel.
If that succeeded, they would have basically not required the war.
It would have been like an overthrowing of the government and they wouldn't have had a problem.
Now that those have failed because the protests have decreased the largest protests were on Friday, according to my sources are in Iran, and since then they've diminished significantly.
And don't get me wrong, people in Iran, even people connected to the government with whom I've spoken, they say that the protests initially were legitimate.
There is economic issues, without a doubt, in Iran.
Obviously those, in my view, are based on the sanctions placed by the United States Of America, which I think sanctions are a very demonic, evil thing to place on any country and any human because, as you know, Rex and Tim, that when it comes to sanctions, sanctions never are placed on the rich, the oligarchy, or the government.
The people who are harmed most by sanctions are the poor, working -class people because the aim is that they're going to struggle.
They're going to starve and maybe they'll do a coup.
So the sanctions are applied to those people.
So no doubt.
And so I think it's very evil and demonic.
But that being said, it has resulted in economic issues.
So they were protesting for a legitimate reason.
But the problem was is then what happened was they got the infiltrators involved.
They got Mossad involved, and it escalated, And Friday, you saw a massive escalation.
A number of institutes were burnt down, A number of mosques were burnt down, And just think about it logically, Iran is a Muslim country, And even if you disagree with the Shahs, You disagree with the monarchs, You wouldn't burn down a mosque.
It's almost like Antifa.
That doesn't make sense, Exactly.
My thing for you though, is like And not to mess up your train of thought But if we go back to the original 12 day roar, Unless we put boots on the ground, Israel and the United States, there's no way that you could actually take over Iran.
I mean, it's too big, too many people.
I think part of it is, yes, making the statement to put them down and take out some of what of their – to disincentivize them from taking an attack anyways based off of the stuff that's happening in Gaza because Iran is very closely tied with Hezbollah and Hamas and is acting as almost like a proxy for those things.
And I think also sometimes the United States as well as Israel, their game plan with these things is like we attack you first.
That way you don't even think twice about actually doing something about this.
Yes.
Yes.
I think what the actual aim of the attack is going to be, and I agree with you, I think it's going to happen within the next six weeks to possibly three months, but I don't even think it's going to be that long.
I think it's going to be within the next four to six weeks.
Now, the reason for the attack is going to be, because you're right.
There's no way they can do boots on the ground.
If the United States puts their soldiers boots on the ground, they would lose.
Just like if Iran was to put boots on the ground in Israel.
Afghanistan in your home.
Afghanistan in Iraq 2 .0.
We've already proven we can't do it.
And we're Americans, we don't, we're like, the common people are dumb with this.
We're like, you want us to die more for these endless, pointless wars where we're just killing kids at the end of the day?
And just as proof for your argument is, do you remember when Israel tried to invade Lebanon?
Lebanon's army isn't as strong as Hezbollah's army.
And I said at that time, I predicted that they were going to lose.
Israel was going to lose.
And they lost because they were trying to invade South Lebanon.
If it was the other way around, they would have lost.
It's very easy.
You know the terrain.
You know the area.
The invading force is always going to struggle.
And so because they can't do boots on the ground because it'd be much worse than Iraq, their only option is to bomb from the air.
So I think what I believe the US's plan is going to be is they're going to bomb from the air.
They're going to hope that by bombing, Oh yeah.
I think that's the only logical reason for what they would do, because if they bomb Iran Iran, or I mean the government again my sources have told me that they've got their weapons ready for Israel.
They've also got their weapons ready for specifically, U.s military bases in the gcc.
It means you're putting Qatar on the target, you're putting Um Uae on the target, you're putting South Arabia on the target.
These people will not be able to stomach missiles being hit in their country and their U.s allies.
So, in reality, what's going to end up happening is significant escalation.
So I think that's the aim, but the aim is it's.
I just don't understand the logic, because once you bomb, unless you have immediate regime change, you're going to see the consequences and they're not going to be able to do a Saddam change.
I don't think.
I think uh, they weren't even able to do that.
I don't think they're going to be able to pull that one off as well.
It's just for me.
The people of Iran, they're angry, they're upset you.
But you talk about the things that the United States and Israel is doing.
Aren't there some systemic problems with what the government in Iran is doing?
I've heard a ton about how people are unhappy besides what the Western influences are because of the decisions that they're making.
Don't the people want a different person in charge to actually make the country better?
I don't want to say adopt Western practices in a sense.
If they were to have their own, if they were, I know it sucks, right?
it's tough if they were to take almost like the saudi arabia route or the the qatar or like where they keep their they preserve their actual like ethnicity and their culture and stuff but then they come into the western Is that not something they want to do?
I'm curious about that.
Why are they incentivized?
Go ahead.
Sorry.
There's a few questions.
By the way, look.
One thing, I know I've come out harsh on X here, but do not feel concerned about asking me any tough questions.
I'm pretty chilled out.
I always think discussions are the best way to deal with any kind of issue.
Now, in terms of, there's two points to your question, in terms of Western values, and the second point is, can Iran deploy the same model as Saudi Arabia?
The answer to the question is yes, they can.
And if you speak to any person, whether it's Iran, Lebanon, Syria, all of these countries, and you speak to even the people within those countries, they love Western society.
They love America.
they worship i've seen western society and in my view they worship even the white man right and so in reality when you've got this kind of psychology the only impediment to that is actually israel because what israel doesn't want is these good relationship with iran because iran has no logical reason for having negative relations with united states of america Actually, any opportunity there's been for any form of negotiations, they've always been willing.
So I think Iran would definitely have peaceful and equal relations to the United States of America, similar to Saudi, but it's Israel who doesn't allow it.
In terms of your second question about whether the people in Iran are happy with the current leadership, I guess my question to you is, and I'm not asking in a harsh way, I'm genuinely asking because I know what the answer is going to be.
What, in your view, just based on the media that you disseminate, based on the information that you get, what do you think that they have in their kind of society that you think is not congruent with Western values?
As far as I think there is a certain level of, and maybe this is more Afghanistan more than Iran, right?
It's more of that super orthodox, more religious base where they're stomping a lot of the traditional things.
Right now, you're seeing a change in Saudi Arabia, where they're allowing women to do a lot more than they used to.
Now, I know Iran is a little bit different, where they're granting some of those freedoms.
But some of those things that the young demographic sees on social media, they can't do those things in Iran.
Otherwise, they would get punished.
Ultimately, and I got to follow up to this.
I do have to tag in here.
What gives us the right, though, to make them change their way of work?
No, and I don't think they should.
What I'm saying is that the world is moving towards some sort of global cooperation, minus what Trump's doing, because...
Bricks!
I really don't like the way that he's handled this and America's not on the right side of history with these things.
But there is a scenario where all the countries can cooperate in the future.
Might not be the near future, but far future.
The younger generation all wants the same thing.
But what I'm saying specifically around your question is in Iran, the younger population consumes media just like we do.
They see the fancy cars, they see the women having fun, all those different things.
And the older generation of Iran doesn't like those things.
And maybe I could be wrong, but that's what I see the dissonance of like our culture would not fit what Iran wants currently, especially the leadership with Khomeini like that.
They don't want girls around doing that type of stuff.
I mean, they're trying to preserve that.
So, I mean, look, you make an interesting point and I did have quite a few debates and amfest about this.
Look, the issue is this.
When you basically got a scenario, which basically, I think what you're alluding to is women's rights, and women's rights, whether it comes to dressing how you want, maybe acting the way they want.
Maybe clubbing, maybe education, or whatever those things are.
Now, there's two important components.
First thing is, when it comes to Iran and women's rights, I would argue, in my view, because I'm extremely anti -feminist, in my view, they probably give women way too many rights.
Because in reality, they've got women in as professors, they've got women in government, they've got women in these number of high -level places, they've actually got more educated women than anywhere else.
Now, in terms of women's rights, or this idea, or this notion that we're speaking about, this is actually the liberalization of society, and you, as you, as you know, I think most I think all three of us, from what I understand that more towards the right wing in those ideas, I think.
But even if we're not the liberalization of society, I don't see it and I think people don't see it as a negative, as a positive thing, and what I mean by that is, if you look at the United States Of America, I think we can all I mean, i'm not sure if we all agree, but we can discuss this but In my view, the United States Of America was created by white, Protestant, religious men, right?
And the reason it was, and why I say Christian and Christian men, and why that's important is because even though Christianity wasn't kind of the religion of the state, those values did permeate.
And whether it's Christian values, Whether it's Jewish values or whether it's Muslim values, the woman doesn't have the role that she has in this liberalized society.
And so specifically Muslim and Christian values, you don't have like pornography.
You don't have a woman going out to work.
The man is the leader of the family, the leader of the household.
and actually you could say maybe that system you don't like it because it's archaic but in reality it's much uh it's but what the problem is we're seeing the result of that because now we've seen the liberalization of society What have we seen?
We've seen the actual problems with feminism because we've seen society being collapsed.
It went way too far.
I'll give you that.
It went way too far to where it disenfranchised men.
And we've seen this thing where Americans, we point at a country, Venezuela, oh, evil drug lord dictator.
We have to take him out to save the world and bring him to America.
And then we look at a place like Iran and we're like, oh, they make them cover the women up and whatever.
We have to do something about this, fix something about this.
The state of Israel gets to declare biblical genocide on a group of people in a, in a city called Gaza, in a land called Palestine, and gets to bomb them and kill them and shoot them and do whatever they want to them because they're Amalek, they're subhuman, and that the Us government endorses that.
So for me, where I look at all this and I just have a hard time with it not just being completely absurd and just looking at a country like Iran, like of course they'd want to do what's in their interest right, like just like we would, just like any other place what do you think Long term, what do you think they want?
Do they want the return of the Shah?
Do they want the Reza Pavlovi guy back?
The guy that kind of looks like Squidward?
Is he popular?
No, he's not popular whatsoever.
And as someone who does speak to people on the ground and even people in the diaspora, it's very similar to Maduro, actually.
Actually, it's not so similar to Maduro.
So there's no doubt that hardly anybody likes the Shah.
Hardly anybody.
Maybe other than PBD and a few other people in the United States of America.
Because remember, when they left Iran, a large part of them stole the wealth of Iran.
And if you look at them, this is why you probably may have met them.
In the United States of America, they're quite wealthy.
Or even if you go to the UAE, quite a lot of them are wealthy because they basically stole the wealth of Iran and left.
So the chart doesn't have that much support.
What you have is, and there's no doubt about this, when it comes to the current government, it has support, but it doesn't have overwhelming support.
People like him or people don't like him.
In terms of percentages, we'll never know, but I'd say it's a mix.
A mix of people who like him and a mix of people who don't like him.
But this is normal.
Like in a normal society, we have it where people disagree with the leadership and agree with it.
I'm from the United Kingdom.
Keir Starmer has like 10 % popularity rate.
People want him out, left wing, right wing.
You look at the United States of America.
You look at it and look at the streets that people are protesting.
If people externally were to apply the Iran method or the Iran terminology that people are saying, what is it?
People in the United States of America want a regime change because the regime's police assassinated a woman.
Now, I know people on the right will disagree with that and that's not my position.
But what I'm saying is you can frame anything in the manner you want, but you're seeing huge protests in the United States of America for that reason because people politically do disagree.
But it doesn't mean you overthrow Trump.
That would just be ridiculous.
you'd have anarchy right so it's a good point and i think that's valid So then my question is, because there's something missing here, right?
Like, I know for a fact, like, Europe, specifically the UK at certain points, has been responsible for the mess that happened between Palestine and Israel and how they tried to do that whole UN charter and decide how the borders were decided and promising both sides access to that area.
okay fine but not I can't say every single factor For Iran has to deal with the United States and some of its European allies.
Like, there are some things that, like, here's the propaganda.
It could be propaganda or it could be misunderstanding on our part.
Part of the issue that the United States has, especially with the citizens, is the terrorism part.
It's not really about the women and how they dress and, and all those different things.
It's the backing of the Hezbollahs, the, uh, the, the terrorist proxy groups and those types.
How are they terrorists?
I'm sorry, I'm not interrupting, but how are they terrorists?
So, I mean, it's definitely framed from the United States standpoint, right?
Clear terrorist is somebody like Al -Qaeda, where they actually bombed, we can say it's a false flag, we can say it's a false flag and stuff like that.
I'm just saying, like, ones that specifically, like, it's all one big negative feedback loop where you don't know where it started, but there's something fundamentally broken between the relations that's not allowing us to actually get along.
Because I would say as an American, I have no hatred towards the average citizen in Iran.
I think the governments from Iran and the United States have propaganda that they're feeding both citizens and getting them to hate each other.
Is it not true that the CIA is fond of a particular strain or sect of Islam and they kind of empower those groups in areas like Saudi Arabia, like Al-Qaeda, like ISIS to rise them up and notice they attack the region, they attack Syria, they attack everywhere else, they don't attack Israel.
You're 100 % right, Rex.
So I think you partly answered the question that Tim actually posed because in reality, when you look at Iran and you look at what is claimed terrorism, and the word terrorism is basically a word applied by Israel for any of its enemies in reality.
But in terms of if you look at it, Hezbollah, Hamas, they've not committed any terrorist attacks in the United States of America.
They, as she has, they've not committed any, and I'm not she as well, by the way.
And they've not committed any terrorist attacks in the United Kingdom.
So Hezbollah is what?
A resistance group that resists against Israel in terms of from the perspective of Israeli invasion into Lebanon.
If you look at Hamas, Hamas is a resistance group that resists against Israel.
In terms of the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, but specifically Gaza if you want to look at it recently.
So they have not committed any terrorist attacks against the United States of America.
Now in terms of what Rex said is completely accurate.
Actually, if you look at it, the United States of America has very good relationship with Saudi Arabia and they've had it for more than 50, 60 years.
If you look at the brand of Islam that comes out of that, which is Wahhabi Salafi Islam, that is the Islam that dominated, that's the Islam that was promoted, funded.
By Saudi Arabia and the United States of America.
There was a WikiLeaks from Clinton who said that they actually directly funded ISIS.
So you basically have the ideology that's promoted by South Arabia.
You have the ISIS and Al-Qaeda functions that are promoted by the United States of America.
And you bring that together.
And those are the extremists and terrorists.
And we don't like, like, so I'm a Muslim.
I don't agree with that extremism.
And I'm not Shia as well.
So I don't agree that I'm like a Sufi Muslim.
But the point is, I just look at it from a geopolitical perspective.
And you see that actually what you, what people consider as terrorists are actually the people who align with the U.S.
And actually, when they apply that word to, with the Iran proxy.
in reality, these two groups don't like each other.
So that's the irony of it.
So if you look at Hezbollah, we're fighting with ISIS in Syria.
Yeah, you're right.
And I did forget that.
And I will give you that ISIS, the United States is directly responsible for that.
When we went ahead and toppled the government, we basically allowed the people in Iraq What ended up happening at that point was the police and the army and the military, we didn't give them jobs to actually subsidize the income that they had prior to the regime change.
So they're all poor, they don't know what to do, and they're disenfranchised, and they're like, alright, well, now, brother, if you want to go against America, come join this group.
And so, yes, there is that indirect response to things that we do where we try to play big bully.
Well, just on that, there isn't, and I apologize if I'm sounding mean, and by the way, I'm actually pro -America in terms of, if you ask me, who do I want to be the world?
global power i would choose america over china all day long that being said there is no doubt right because we i'm a geopolitical expert and a historian There's no doubt whatsoever that when you look at it, the United States of America has been involved in the invasion and the destruction and previously UK as well of a large part of countries, whether it's like, and this is the problem we've got is when you look at,
for example, Americans or some Americans on the right who complain about, for example, or not Americans, even Europe in the West who complain about, for example, immigration or Muslim immigration.
First of all, I denied the fact that that even exists in the sense of in the level that they're claiming.
But let's say some immigration from Muslims is happening, which some of it is.
It's not to the level that people are claiming, but they're immigrating from countries that are being destroyed.
So if you look at, for example, Minnesota now and the whole situation with Somalia, what's Somalia but basically a country that has been ravaged and destroyed by America?
Right?
Because I would say there's part of it as America, but they also, the civil war that was created during that time period in the 90s, in which, yes, the Soviet Union and the United States was kind of somewhat involved for that, yes.
It's all, it's great powers playing with little states, and little states end up broken, and the people that live in little states go home to the great powers.
Well, you're right in the sense of, because the USSR kind of had control over Somalia, and then they went to Ethiopia and basically went on their side, and then the US ended up Yeah.
And supported by the United States Of America.
You know the whole situation with Somaliland uh, which is basically really the Isaac clan because remember, Somalia is basically different clans of uh, Black America, Black Africans you basically had it where this clan, or bare, was funded to basically commit, I would say, a genocide, because he specifically targeted a specific clan, but he was financed and funded by the United States Of America.
And so, in reality, when you look at the civil war that's occurred and then kind of After that and the funding and financing, it's always been the United States of America.
So the issue you've got is when, and then people migrate away from that country because of the problems that are occurring.
And then you basically have it where they go to, for example, the Western world.
And then you have it where people are like, what are these smileys doing?
And so on and so forth.
So I think the complexity is, first of all, to be clear, I don't think there's a Muslim migration issue.
If you look at the US, you look at the UK, it's not Muslims migrating to these countries, nor do they have positions of power.
But that being said also, When you look at these people in these countries, they're only there because of that upheaval that's happening.
And I'm not even talking about Muslims.
I'm talking about all Africans.
I'm talking about, because it's happening in many African countries, I'm talking about Middle Easterners.
I'm talking, I'm actually, I don't think of it as a religious issue.
I see it as a destruction of our countries happening by outside forces when they don't need to be there.
You stay in your own country.
You don't need to destroy another country.
And you see that with Venezuela, this destroying of their country, the stealing of their resources.
And this is the problem I have with the U.S. that they are diminishing and they're declining because of these wars.
They worked for a while for the military industrial complex and the financial industrial complex, but it's no longer.
And it's the exact same reason why the U.K. ended up not being the world power it is today.
They did the same thing.
They went into India.
Took all their gold.
Because 48 % of the Earth.
Yeah, they took all of the different regions, colonized them, and basically used resource extractions instead of cooperation.
I think that's where the break in the chain is.
It's because these powerful countries, either sometimes another country is like, no, we don't want to do this deal, and they're like, oh.
You don't want to do this deal?
Well, then we'll just take it.
We'll just kill you.
That situation happens, but then also sometimes we don't even lead with diplomacy where we realize that these places have people in power and you just need to be able to communicate.
More people want to actually be higher up and actually reach that first world status.
Well, it's an interesting point.
You look at America, and I would agree with you, sadly, Suleiman, that we are declining and also that we are an empire.
Right?
And you look at Europe, specifically, you look at EU, but also not just the EU, Britain, UK included in that.
They don't have any resources.
They don't have any real military or real armies.
They're committed, quote unquote, to backing Ukraine to the hilt and fighting the evil Russians that want to come take over all of Europe.
And we hear this narrative and it's just one more year, just one more leopard tank.
What is your opinion on the European countries' future position in the world?
Do they just fade off into irrelevancy or do they get involved in another big war?
Excellent question.
I think Europe in itself, I think America has decided That they're going to basically, in a simple sense, weaken and destroy Europe.
And the reason they've done that is quite a few reasons.
So they've done it economically, as you know, because do you remember Nord Stream?
I know it's been a while now, but Nord Stream.
Germany still struck.
Yeah, yeah, sorry.
Yeah, I forgot.
Yeah, it was the Russians that blew up Nord Stream.
But hypothetically, let's assume it wasn't the Russians, right?
That weakened Germany significantly.
It economically harmed Europe significantly, and that's just one example.
You look at Covid.
You look at, for example, as you mentioned, the support of Ukraine, Russia war, you the support of the Israel Genesis uh, the Israeli genocide.
You look at all of these things.
Brexit was another example which again, what the what they did was they pushed Uk out of Europe, which weakened both of them, and so the aim is to weaken Europe, asset strip Europe, for then you have a scenario where they become a weakened shell.
They're no longer.
They become almost like a, a vassal of the United States Of America, but extremely, extremely weakened.
Now, there's a number of reasons for that, because and the?
U.s.
Remains dominant, and actually, another reason is because, in my view, the aim, I think what what's going to happen in the future is, while when America I know it's a maybe not purview to this show, i'm not sure if it is, but when, as America declines in terms of the white populace because, as you know, it's only 58 percent at the moment uh, some say 56 percent I believe that they, that if they weaken Europe significantly, they'll then be able to bring that labor, white labor, white European labor, to the?
U.s.
You I want to push back just a little bit.
Here's the part that I struggle with.
You're saying, and I understand what you're saying, the United States is trying to weaken Europe.
But at the same time, if you look at the fact that we're trying to pull out of these different agreements like UN, Not providing as much money to NATO and then Trump explicitly saying, look, you guys need to start building your militaries because we're fronting the bill and we're fronting all of the protection costs and you guys need to be able to be self -sustaining.
I think part of the issue is not just like, it's very easy to make the claim that it's an America thing, but if you just look at the cultural aspect of how Europeans just live in general and productivity, It's a very vacation -y type of environment.
Not the UK.
They're used to their welfare systems over there.
If you go to Italy, if you go to Italy, and you go to Greece, economies aren't just in peril because of the United States and all these factors.
I must study 10 hours a day and get this done.
Otherwise, my bloodline.
No, they're like, let's go to the beach and relax, right?
Even in Germany, I've been working a lot with Germany lately.
They have a three -week holiday and a ton of bank holidays in between in which people are not expected to work.
The work -life balance is phenomenal in Europe.
I encourage people, if you want to have a great work-life balance, go there.
I think that's where some of the productivity loss and what is happening with Europe.
You got to look at those factors too and not just from a what do the world powers want to do.
There's a cultural thing to that too.
If you get your arm broken here, you have to rob a bank.
That's the problem though, isn't it?
I'm majorly against that.
If we want to call ourselves the greatest, stuff like that can't exist.
But go ahead.
Yeah, I mean, that's a problem because in reality in the US you've got socialism for the rich but not for the poor.
But that being said, in terms of what, let's just cover the first point.
So in reality, what Trump did with the UN was this, right?
He said to them, guess what?
This Ukraine -Russia war, I'm going to pay it less.
You need to pay more.
So this war between Ukraine and Russia, it means Europe now has to foot even more of a bill.
So it does weaken the economy a lot more.
So that's actually, again, a very smart move from Trump.
The second thing is, in terms of productivity in Europe, I agree with you.
There isn't an extreme culture of working that you get in the United States of America.
As someone who spends a lot of time in the US, I'd be shocked.
People have got two, three jobs.
People are working 60 to 80 hours.
But that's just the working class.
Unfortunately, they're going through struggle in the US.
In the UK, I agree with you that in terms of you do kind of have this psychology, but the reason the psychology has been created is because they're seeing the oligarchy, the rich become richer, the poor become poorer.
And even if you work like 40 hours a week or 60 hours a week, which most people do, 40 to 50 hours a week, your economic situation almost remains very similar.
And so I think that's the greatest problem that people have that now the people and is resulting in this black pilling where people are just not seeing a future in terms of from an economic perspective, in terms of a social perspective, in terms of a marriage perspective.
And I think that's the major issue.
And actually, that's what you're finding both in the United States of America, actually the whole Western world.
What about those other European countries?
Like I was talking about Italy, Greece, Germany, and that like Italy is very vacation.
If you were to go there and actually experience it.
They're all unionized.
What's your perspective?
Do you not think that's driving a productivity issue and why their GDPs are falling?
I think it's a factor, but I'd say the larger factor is these things.
Because just think about it.
If people don't have the work ethic that they have, let's say they're working like 10 % less hours.
If you look at it from an economical perspective, that's going to have a very, it's going to have a factor.
But the factor in terms of from the global perspective, like Italy basically locks down.
Italy supports the Ukraine -Russia war.
Italy supports the Israeli genocide.
Italy no longer has UK as part of Europe.
Italy's migration is really high as well.
When you put all of those things into consideration, that's the major weakening of Italy.
So I agree with you, that is a factor, and that makes sense what you're saying, but I'd say those other global factors are a lot more significant.
Well, everything in our economy is grift -related, right?
It's about what you can scam, what you can steal, what system you can get into that's just beginning and you can be a part of the pump and not the dump.
The meme coin, baby.
Yeah, the meme coin.
I mean, Trump did it.
He literally has a meme coin.
But looking at the EU, this is one of the questions I wanted to ask you.
Aren't they trying to give Ukraine a loan against the Russian assets?
Because when I heard about this, it blew my mind.
Like, okay, well, we have $300 billion or whatever in seized assets.
We're going to issue Ukraine a $120 billion loan to ourselves.
I forget who it was to buy weapons or whatever it's for.
We're just making it up.
And hey, when we win, we'll just take it from Russia on our balance sheet.
So it's fake money.
What do you think about this grift world we live in?
Well, you just hit the nail on the head.
What that really tells you is your money isn't your money.
Because someone like Roman Abramovich Who is an oligarch Ukrainian but basically Ukrainian But kind of like Russian heritage Israeli as well But that being said He basically controlled Chelsea Football Club And they seized their entire football club They said guess what You're no longer allowed to have this They then sold the football club to someone else And then the proceeds of it They've just kept it So that's an example of them basically So that's an example of them
Your money isn't your money and this is the kind of great issue we've got where in reality what's happened is the entire economy of the world and let's take the US as an example and I kind of indicated this.
As a working class person, you can work really hard.
You mentioned it.
You can have an accident.
You do not benefit, right?
You're going to lose your entire net worth.
You're going to lose your savings and someone like Bill Ackman Someone like the rich oligarchs, they can put pressure on the government and they can get bail out.
So you remember the bank run that happened in the United States of America in 2023?
The government can come in and bail them out.
Or for example, when Bill Ackman, when Trump did the tariffs, longed the market and then Trump put the tariffs in, he was like, oh my God, I've longed the market.
Trump, can you re -change your position?
And based on the billionaire class, he changed his position.
So what that tells you is America and the western world is socialist, but for the rich or for the poets not.
And so I find it hilarious when Americans are like, guess what?
We've gone to Venezuela, we are pirates, we're stealing their oil.
It's their oil, we're gonna steal it, we're gonna take it like bandits.
But the worst thing about it is you're proud because you're not even gonna get it.
Like, at least, if you're gonna steal the oil, the people who are cheering give them a bit of the oil money, but they're not even giving that.
It's just gonna be the, it's gonna just be the mobile Chevron, the rich rich, billionaires who are gonna benefit.
So that's the problem, you've got Sulaiman.
I think that's very unfair.
You see, the the moment Exxon put the drill in the ground in Venezuela, it became ours because we say it and they're, and therefore it is like that's the American mentality, that is the Trump, it is the way flag, and then it just becomes ours, even if it's blonde to someone else, the moon's America.
By the way, there is a...
X is such an echo chamber.
There is a sector of the population that does agree with what Trump is doing.
But I will say, overwhelmingly, if you look at the average American and the silent majority as we sit here, we don't agree with that stuff.
I voted for him twice.
I'm appalled.
Right.
Like all the money it took to actually strike Venezuela, put Delta six in there, fly, fly, fly, uh, you know, B2 bombers and, and all of these air refuelers, by the way, every single set of that dollar came from tax money.
So it doesn't help us at the end of the day.
You're right.
I mean, we're not getting that money and people understand that.
And the whole thing of this America first and what a lot of these people voted for, including myself back in 2024 was enough of the foreign involvement and entanglement.
And let's focus on the things that matter from a local perspective.
Is my life getting.
Better or worse.
That is all people care about.
They don't care about Venezuela.
They don't care about Iran.
They don't care about Israel.
They don't care about the billionaire interest.
They don't care.
They're playing in a play place in a world that we don't exist in.
And that's our issue as Americans.
And you hit the nail on the head.
First of all, the average American is not going to benefit.
Even though when they're polling, the recent polling I was looking at it, Democrats are completely against it.
Republicans, the majority of Americans are against it.
But when you split it down between party lines, Republicans support it more than those who don't.
Democrats don't.
But that's for party line, Tony.
I want to speak to that.
That's the thing.
I agree with you there.
For me, it's sad to see people cheer for essentially what is the neocon regime.
All the proof I need for why I can say I'm no longer a Trump supporter and I disavow is when Lindsey Graham is up there on the plane chuckling about the next invasion and then he gives a speech and he's like, we're bombing all the right people and we're cutting your taxes.
Our taxes aren't being cut.
It's the people up top that are getting their taxes cut.
And he's talking to them.
He's not talking to us.
But that's the president's golfing buddy.
That's his friend.
That's what I can't stomach.
And as someone that grew up in a very, very right -wing space, this is not anti -war, anti -government, pro -liberty, pro -America values.
This is the Bush administration, the Obama administration, all over again.
It's just packaged with the orange men now.
And I can't, like, it hurts so much that the liberals were right.
It really does.
It stings very deeply because I thought the man was different.
I thought that he was anti -war and I told people to vote for him based off that because I truly believed it.
And I sit here now, a year and a half later, I'm like, look how foolish I was.
Yeah, seriously.
And that's true.
That being said, I don't see the liberals or the Democrats as being any different.
The only reason the polling's like that is because Democrats have Trump in power, so we disagree with it.
But if it was Biden doing it, they would agree with the exact same thing.
And you're right.
The average American's like, it's our oil, we're going to take it, but you're not benefiting.
And it's Axan Mobile and Chevron benefiting.
And why that's important is this.
Because some people, I've seen some commentators say, look, we supported when we were against the war in Iraq.
Right?
Because that wasn't in our interest.
But this one is.
Now, I understand the logical argument, but the debunking of that is very easy.
When you look at the Iraq war, the people who benefited were the military -industrial complex.
So, American military -industrial complex, which I think are Zionists, but that's a separate point.
But the American military complex benefited, right?
So, they benefited financially.
The average American did not benefit.
So in similar to this situation, when they've taken the oil, Chevron and Axon Mobile and Paul Singer, who is a Jewish Zionist billionaire, they're the ones who benefited.
The average American didn't.
But then these are American companies, which I believe are Zionist as well, but put that aside.
But American companies still benefited, but the average didn't.
So what's the difference between the two?
I'm Orthodox, and I would agree with you.
I mean, that's it on its face, and there's a very weird breed of Christianity.
I guess we should call it a sect, kind of like what comes out of Saudi Arabia that's cropped up here in America over the past, like, 125-ish years with the Schofield Bible and other such writings where you have the class in America that has all the powers of old people.
It's the boomer.
They have two -thirds of the wealth.
They have all the good old boy connections and interests, and that's who runs our government.
That's who's in power at the end of the day.
And those people were brought up and they're like, well, the Bible says that Abraham's seed is Israel and therefore we must support Israel because those who bless Israel be blessed and those that curse it will be cursed.
In and like both of our theologies, even though they're different, would outright reject that based on the scriptures and the text and the whole thing.
That's wrong and there's a whole reason why there was a push in the early days for the United States to have a separation of church and state was for these fears that people would use religion as a basis for uh, attacks and different things as like in order to actually push an agenda, and so we're seeing that like the inconsistent ideology behind.
Well, this is what God would do.
This is what Christians should do.
And it's like, if you actually look at, what would Jesus do?
He wouldn't do any of this stuff.
Are you kidding me?
He wouldn't go out there and say, that's my oil, give it to me.
No, and the Muslims also don't hate Jesus.
And this is a big misconception that we're fed in in the United States and like, whatever our disagreements may be, and they're there and they're, they're plentiful uh, like they're.
We're fed propaganda on our relationship with each other and it seems like one group benefits from.
It's very interesting.
I don't think there's that much disagreement between Muslim and Christian.
That's why I try my best not to get into these kind of Muslim -Christian debates.
Yeah.
And the reason I don't think so is because if you look at it, as you said, Muslims respect Jesus.
And I think their religious perspective is very similar.
You won't find something in Islam that you don't also find in Christianity.
Whether it's a view on feminism, homosexuality, liberalism, war theory, all of these things are found.
Now, was there Muslims and Christians in the past who did not fulfill the tenets of the Bible or the tenets of the Quran?
Of course, if you see the expansion of Islam, if you see the expansion of Christianity, in my view, both of them did it in a manner that didn't go with those religions.
If you look at the Arab expansion or the Islam expansion that happened, or if you look at, and both of them going into, for example, Africa.
Africa wasn't Muslim.
Africa wasn't Christian.
Yeah, both of these religions expanded into those countries, which shows the kind of almost colonization that happened to those, to that area, based on, for example, those religions trying to evangelize.
But that being said, if you look at it from the actual religious sense, I don't believe that both of those religions have those tenets.
And so when you look at it, and I do think that, as you mentioned, that group does try and cause a separation between Muslims and Christians.
There was a study recently by the Israeli foreign ministry two months ago, and they said that, look, The world is against Israel.
Even the United States of America, which was the most pro -Israel country, the vast majority of the American public now is anti -Israel.
And for under 30 -year -olds, it's so high.
It's like 70 % or something.
Extremely high.
Yeah, that's why you got a Mamdani win.
75 % of people under 30 voted for him in New York.
Exactly, exactly.
And so what happened is you basically got it where they did a study and they looked at trying to find out what's the best way to get Americans and the Western world back on our side.
And they said, look, we can't be pro-Israel or anti-Palestine.
It's just not going to work.
So what they said is that the best way to do it is to promote and propagate anti-Muslim propaganda.
And so that's what they've been pushing through the media, through various other things, because that's an easy way, because the Muslim sometimes does look like the other.
And so that's an easy way of redirecting attention.
And so what I see about that is like a Zionist expression.
I'm so sorry.
I think that's, I don't mean to interrupt.
I think that's such a powerful point because you look at two guys and like they're from the Middle East and one guy is an ISIS person and one guy is an oil person.
An American would just look at them and call them both terrorists.
Right.
And so that's where my issue is.
I say this the same.
I'm a black guy, African-American a lot of people are you FBS?
Yeah.
You know.
OG.
OG.
So here's the thing.
People look at me, and I get so angry sometimes at the fact that they're like, oh, well, black people are committing crimes.
Of course!
There are black people committing crimes and they're committing 20 % of the crimes statistically compared to the subsect of people who are actually committing.
But if you look at it, that's only 5 % of the black population.
What I want to understand is when it comes to the Muslim community, and I hate to take the religious aspect, but there are some things I have to address like the Prophet Muhammad and some of the radical teachings that are in the Quran about, you know, Conquering your enemy and anybody who's not converting to Islam and those types of things.
Where's the distinction of what the modern day practice is for people?
Because I'm sure you're not like that and you're not going to sit there and be like, well, I support that.
But there are extremists in every group that would take that literally and actually do the crime.
Now, what is your perspective on that?
I think it's an important question.
And by the way, do ask me any questions.
I'm really chilled out.
I always think discussions and conversations are always the best way to weed out these ideas.
So in terms of the black crime, first of all, I disagree with that.
I think that there's a number of factors for that.
For example, socioeconomic.
And every race is violent.
Just the way they propagate the violence is different.
So you mentioned about black people specifically within the United States of America.
But what about brown people and white people Who as I just mentioned Went to different continents and subjugated People and basically took over continents And killed and murdered people so once you take That into consideration the percentages aren't as similar That is a good perspective
I will say that The second thing is In terms of Islam I'm someone who believes Everything in the Quran There is nothing in the Quran And if you can find someone Let's discuss it And please do This is an open discussion Even if you need to check it online There is nothing in the Quran In my view That pushes any form of violence Actually even in the Quran When it talks about war It specifically only talks about Defensive war I just debated someone in Amfest.
He's like a Christian guy.
I didn't want to debate a Christian, but it was more about Islam's compatibility with the West.
And he made the same argument.
I said, okay, show me.
He pulled out a verse and I showed him.
Look, that verse literally says defensive war.
Read it in context, the line before it.
So in Quran, you only have defensive war.
The other thing I think you may be alluding to is apostasy, possibly.
The Quran actually says the opposite.
The Quran itself says there's freedom of religion.
So what is it that I'm reading when I'm going, when you're going online, and I know there's always propaganda out there, but like there are people pulling scriptures and verses from the Quran.
What is it that I'm seeing?
Because if I go and talk to the, if I go talk to specific other Muslims, there are some people that say, well, yeah, it is written in that way.
Or there's like an actual subsect of people in a certain area that like, They say this is what the terrorism is built off of because this is what the Prophet Muhammad says that we should do.
So help me understand that.
Yeah, it's a very good question.
A very good question.
So there's two points.
The first thing is, when it comes to anyone who's extreme, they can take any verse out of context and use it for the manner that they want to use it.
Just like, for example, you must have seen The Handmaiden's Tale.
It's kind of like this kind of elucidation of kind of a strict version of the Bible.
And it was like this draconian, dystopian society that would be created by it.
But if I was to ask you, you would say, guess what?
The Bible isn't like that.
The Bible is like a Z.
And similarly, it's like with any text.
You can take any text.
If you take just that sentence out of context, of course you can present it in any manner you do.
And some of these extreme people will do the same.
So someone like ISIS will use the text in an extreme manner to try and propagate their position.
And what they'll do is then, but then also with the complication with people like ISIS is they are like paid for hire as well.
So they'll be paid for hire men who use it out of context.
I will say this.
There's nothing you will find in the Quran, nothing, no position, whether it's homosexuality, apostasy, war, anything that you don't find.
in the old testament or the new testament but in a much more harsher stricter manner for example let's take homosexuality because people say oh they hate gays or whatever so homosexuality in the quran it says it's a sin right it says it's not allowed so it's definitely a sin but in the um christian tradition and in the torah it literally says kill the homosexual so in reality you've basically got it where it's a lot so they all three agree but it's a lot more stricter so my position When it comes to the Quran,
the positions overall are the same as Judaism and Christianity, but Islam is more lenient, whether it comes to that, whether it comes to women's rights or whatever it may be.
You're very smart, and I don't think we want to dive fully into apologetics with you.
No, I have to ask questions.
Apologetics is rough.
Ask anything.
I'm chill.
Apologetics is rough.
I just wanted to say this.
We have disagreements on theology, on religion, whatever.
Putting that aside, Ultimately to me, growing up as a kid, growing up like around my dad, around the Obama administration stuff that we covered and talked about, I came to a very logical conclusion as like an eight or nine year old where I was like, look, If I was a kid in the Middle East and my dad died in a drone strike or a bombing or an attack, then I would then not like America and want to wage war against it.
Like it just kind of, it makes sense at the end of the day.
Obviously not saying people's actions are good when they do terrorism, but there's a very clear cause and effect.
And like, I wish no ill upon your people.
I want us all to get along at the end of the day.
That's what I want.
And that's totally where I'm at, which is why I have to ask these questions because there's so much that we don't understand and it's all, everyone has their own local truths.
And I'll ask you another one that's very controversial that people ask a lot.
Mouth.
Yeah sure, the whole aspect of Aisha and the six-year-old, and I'm sure you've been asked this a million times, but we have a very big audience.
Explain that, because what I from, what I understand and what I have been told, is that there is it is okay to do something like that, whereas I don't think for you that's what your standpoint is and that people should go around marrying six-year-olds, but they say the prophet Muhammad says so, and then there's a subsect of the population that may take that for its word.
Am I missing something?
Yeah, of course I'll answer that and you're right.
I do get a question a lot and I don't mind answering it ever.
So there's one thing, an important point to know.
So first of all, I don't believe she was six.
I believe she was 18, but I'll explain my reasoning for it.
So in terms of the Quran, right?
Quran, according to Muslims, is the word of God.
So we believe it's certain knowledge.
It means you cannot even doubt even one iota within the Qur 'an because that would be disbelief.
So it's certain knowledge.
There's no errors in it.
Then you have secondary sources.
Secondary sources is hadith.
Hadith are basically the sayings of the Prophet.
Now the problem with, the issue is with hadith, there's a plethora of them.
And so there's some that were real.
There's authoritative and non -authoritative hadith, right?
Exactly.
But how do you find out if something's authoritative?
So what happens is you, and even the authoritative hadith, they are considered probabilistic knowledge.
They're not certain because even when you go through these narrations and you say, guess what?
I'm going to find out if this is legitimate or not.
You understand that you could be wrong, right?
Because I'll have a mechanism to find out and you'll have a mechanism to find out.
I'm talking about us if we were like ancient scholars and we disagree.
And so even if it's an authoritative narration, It could be, it's still probabilistic knowledge, like from a hermeneutical perspective.
It means it could be right, it could be wrong, but we're accepting it.
So, the narration that talks about Aisha being six.
And then basically consummated at 9.
That's a hadith.
That's not the Quran.
So first of all, it's probabilistic knowledge.
The second thing is the collection it's in, in Bukhari, in the exact same collection, you have another narration.
Because remember, hadiths are not certain knowledge, so they can be conflicting.
And if they're conflicting, it's like, wait, what's going on here?
One of them is going to be fake.
One of them is going to be real, right?
The other narration says that she was 10 years older than her sister.
And her sister was born on the, basically, there was a certain battle that occurred.
and so based on that one's able to determine that the sister was born when the battle occurred therefore Aisha got married in this year therefore she's 18 only in the same collection also the narration that says she was six and married at nine it was narrated by a guy his name is Hisham bin Urwa who had memory issues when he was 80 years old so even scholars said that when he's above 80 when he went to Iraq His narration shouldn't be taken.
And even his teacher basically also did not, Imam Malik did not take his narrations.
So I'm telling you, why I'm telling you all this is to demonstrate that actually the first thing is very important because obviously you're probably not bothered about Allah.
But the first thing is it's not in the Quran.
So it's not certain knowledge.
The second thing is that it's basically you have a conflicting rapport in the same collection that basically indicates that she was 18.
So my position is she was 18.
Now, would you look at the concept of like jizya or having to pay tax, would you look at that as similar as like, you know, maybe like other religions of other practices, Jews do usury and other such things.
Everyone's always about some form of tax in some way.
What's your view on that?
Just on the last point, by the way, that's in difference to the Talmud, where the Talmud literally says that if you have a relation, if a Jewish person has relations with a three -year -old Gentile, Then you need to kill the Gentile three -year -old girl because she defiled a Jewish person.
So that's kind of where the Talmud is.
But in terms of your other point, in terms of jizya, so jizya itself is a taxation system.
And what I mean by that is, let's say, for example, the Muslims did conquer.
I mentioned it to you.
I disagreed with it, but it definitely happened.
I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen.
It happened, and then they applied jizya.
What that meant is you'd go into a nation, you'd say, look, do you want to convert?
If they said, no, we don't want to convert.
We want to stay in our own religion.
He said, no problem.
You need to create a contractual agreement with us.
You're not going to serve the army.
You're not going to be part of certain things that are required of you.
But you need to pay a taxation, a 20 % taxation.
Sometimes it was 7%.
Sometimes it was a much of 25%.
It varied throughout the entire Muslim history.
But again, that's not unique to Islam.
As you mentioned, you have Judaism that has that.
Even Christianity had that, right?
So Christianity actually had a position.
I believe it was Pope Innocent IV.
I think it's been a while since I checked this.
I believe Pope Innocent IV literally said that in the exact same situation, that those people, they don't give jizya, they are in perpetual servitude.
So what that means is you're going to be a servant or a perpetual slave.
Sometimes people believe perpetual servitude could be slavery because you need to buy yourself out of the situation.
So basically conquering armies, whether it was Christian or Muslim, kind of had that position.
and I would say the GZR position was a lot more lenient compared to the other two positions but they're definitely with that.
It's very interesting, Tim.
You have a point?
Well, I want to take a step back and look at this from like 10,000 foot view, right?
Because I grew up Christian.
My grandmother was a pastor.
I was born into the religion.
That's the whole reason why I believed in Christianity and Jesus and if you're born in the Middle East, that is what you believe.
I'm an Orthodox catechumen, by the way.
If you were born into...
In India, most likely you would be Hindu or some other sect, right?
So, the whole point of religion, if we look at the fundamentals, is to believe in something to do better in life.
Can we all agree on that?
Yeah, definitely.
Justifications for truth.
But in general, I think all humans, depending on whatever you look at or whatever religion you practice, we all I disagree.
saying like no matter what it is you can go back and text i'm not even saying specifically like whether it's paul like anyone 10 000 years ago or 5 000 years ago could have done something maliciously in order to change the narrative however and then humans later down the line That's congruent with his position.
I'll tell you that.
There is an ability for the Old Testament, New Testament being changed.
Yeah, with the Muslim position you're talking about.
There's an ability for that to happen no matter what religion you practice, because at the end of the day, none of us were born during this time period, and it's a translation and a pass down of knowledge.
Very important place, though, that Middle East.
A lot of stuff came out of there.
So all I'm trying to say is even no matter what you practice or what you believe, in every religion, I think everyone has this fundamental belief system that they just want a good life and something to actually believe in.
that I hope in life and I think sometimes we miss that wider point bring in the aids and we bring in we have to conquer this and we have to do that everyone just wants at the end of the day and is that not true is that the point I just feel like we all miss I like I like golden rule I like doing to others as you would have them do to you I think that's a good way to try to live your life
And I think that, it's like you're saying, like those, there are, you know, We aspire as humans towards kind of these positives, and then we kind of require a route to get there.
And it's just like, why do we add all these nuances?
I know people say different things, there's different interpretations, but just look at the net reaction and what's supposed to actually happen.
It's supposed to lead you to a better life, right?
And you can't use it, you can't use something good and holy to kill children or to kill women or to kill people in general that don't deserve to die.
Right?
And that's the thing for me.
It's just like, thou shall not kill.
I think we all agree on that.
You know?
What's your perspective?
Yeah, I agree with you.
I say that my belief is that, look, all man, all human is equal, irrespective of race, religion, or creed.
It doesn't matter who you are.
You've been created by God, and the aim is to connect with your Lord.
Connect to Him in a spiritual manner that you know you're basically acting in the most moral, ethical way that is possible.
Yes.
And I don't believe, but religion, of course, there are people, evil men, who may use religion, but not also religion, because I had this conversation with someone who wasn't religious, ideology, because even they use ideology, even atheism is used, communism was used, various ideologies, capitalism has been used, various ideology has been used by those in power, by the evil man.
In order to manufacture consent by those that he leads in order to do evil.
And it's the duty of a man to be an individual rational thinker.
This is why in Islam it says, there's a verse that says, they took their rabbis and priests as lords.
Now, it's not talking specifically about Christianity and Judaism, but it includes Islam as well, that you take your leaders as lords.
You think that whatever they say is true, rather than use your own mind, your own rational thought.
And if one was able to do that, You would be able to differentiate between right and wrong.
And so when Trump invades Venezuela and steals the oil of some poor country, you would be like, wait a sec.
My religion says I shouldn't steal.
My religion says I'm not superior to this individual.
My religion says that this is wrong.
And then therefore you would say, look, this is wrong.
i disowned this and i diminished i diminished this and if that happened you wouldn't have the mass expansions that you saw whether it was the muslims whether it was the christians whether it was white whatever it was you wouldn't have arabs or whoever it was you wouldn't have any of that happening in terms of colonizing in terms of harming poor people taken over continents taken over countries none of that would happen and i think that's a but but then these ideologies were used in order to do so yeah
Yeah, how do we as a society fix this?
Because I think about it and i'm like part of the issue is, is everybody thinks their truth is the truth and they try to.
Either there's groups that want to shove down their ideology down this person's throat or push it because like, I believe i'm correct, or he believes he's correct, and all these different things, and we forget that a lot of these religions have very similar, overlapping beliefs, and that's the thing that I pay attention to.
It's like, okay, what is Judaism Christianity uh Hinduism, what do they all say?
That's universal.
And then you can say like, well, if there's one true god or the universe, maybe that's the actual message that was supposed to be hit, not all the nuances in between.
So how do we say we might disagree, but how do we like this?
I'm just saying like there's more and we, why do you disagree?
Yeah, go ahead.
Actually answer that.
No, he's asking you, Rex.
Oh, asking me about why I disagree?
Well, I would view the Eastern religions kind of as perennialists.
It's like you say, the universe, like we are all one, kind of the psychedelic mushroom type of thing.
And I look at the religions coming out of the Middle East as different.
And in their theology, it differentiates.
We would have an apologetics debate where you would probably thrash me because you're more experienced.
But we have different definitions of it.
We believe in Monotheism, essentially.
We would all make that argument to a certain extent, right?
So I just, I wouldn't agree with the justification of saying the universe and then God.
You believe Jews believe in monotheism?
Yeah.
Jews, Muslim, Christian, they all make the claim of it.
I'm not saying that's the stated position of the religions.
I would make the argument.
But then doesn't that agree with his point?
And what I'm trying to say is, of course, all three religions agree.
That they believe in monotheism.
You ask a Christian man, he'll say, I believe in monotheism.
You ask a Muslim, he'll say, I believe in monotheism.
You ask a Jewish man, he'll say, I believe in monotheism.
But then when they debate amongst you, the Muslim will say to the Christian, you're a polytheist.
The Christian will say, you're a polytheist.
And they'll have that disagreement.
But that's a more, in my view, a minor disagreement because actually, as somebody who actually studied theology and philosophy, I think everyone's wrong.
So then I came to the conclusion that, listen, either everyone's wrong, or you have to just accept that people are going to make minor mistakes, or there's going to be minor differences, and it ain't that big deal.
And so, when I say everyone's wrong, I mean even people within Islam.
So my point being that when you come, and not in terms of the Quran, obviously, because that's what I believe, but the point is, so when you look at the theology, overarchingly, I do believe they believe the same thing.
And I think once I studied theology to the extent I did, because I was doing my PhD in philosophy as well, I find that actually, you know what, the disagreements, whether it's intra -religion or inter -religion, I don't think they're that much of a big deal.
They all claim to be monotheist and that's fine.
Ultimately, it just gets back to the core thing of like, no ideology gives you the right to steal or murder or invade, especially in the modern age.
Because if you just look at the fundamentals of humanity as a whole and how just the laws of life work, regardless of what religion, things only work in constructive, In a constructive manner in which there's collaboration.
The reason why humans cooperate with each other is because if we didn't, we wouldn't have anything that we built.
You and I wouldn't be talking telepathically through a microphone and a headset if we didn't all cooperate.
And that is the main mission of I think what society needs to start waking up to is that these Ideologies, like you talked about, whether it's religious or whether it's capitalism, all these things, are creating divisions in which you're creating narratives in which people are just latching onto the guy who is telling them, this is what you should believe.
Whereas I completely agree with what you're saying.
You're like, you should have some discernment.
You need to be able to think for yourself and actually understand.
What is actually right and what is wrong just from a net positive society?
Is killing somebody just for no reason something that's net positive?
Just because you can?
Stealing?
I think we all agree on that.
I don't think enough people are having these conversations and they're just focused on the slop that happens out there.
I hopped in one of your spaces when I think Cardone's brother came on and he laughed.
And he was like, you guys are sitting here arguing about bullshit that doesn't even matter.
When the real people and the real situations that are happening, you should be focused on that because they're robbing you and they're doing all these different things behind closed doors.
Yeah, like in this country, we got companies that buy up all the family housing and they'll pay 100 % more than anyone else is willing to pay and that's just the situation.
Here, if you need a medical operation or a treatment or a drug, there's no regulation on how much that can cost.
They literally make it up on the spot.
And like, yeah, it's a huge problem.
Yeah.
And like, that's like Americans.
Cause I see this, like, uh, you know, I spent a lot of time in America and by the way, I agree with what you're saying.
So I'm just asking your viewpoint.
What's your thoughts on the fact that like, you've got these working class Americans, people work in 60, 70, 80 hours, you know, and then they have this injury.
They haven't got the medical insurance.
They're not able to pay for it.
But then they're like, we ain't, we ain't no commies.
We ain't no socialists.
We're capitalists.
What's your thoughts on that?
Yeah.
Well, I think it comes down to what does it mean by America's the greatest country in the world.
And I would make the argument that we're not the greatest country in the world at anything but war, but we've had the money and the potential and the time to spend that money on something else, which would be to take care of the American people.
And I'm someone like, I'm pro -life as you are as well.
I'm sure you're anti -abortion.
I view a situation as, okay, we've killed 60 million people here in the U .S. We've done that.
And not only have we done that, we've said, oh, we're not going to offer you support, childcare, time off, food.
We're not going to do that.
We're going to make you suffer so you make this horrible decision.
And I view that as incongruent with my beliefs.
So I have to say, if I'm pro -life, I'm also pro -people getting food.
I'm also pro -people getting free healthcare.
And like for me, that's my position.
I hate seeing like the the MAGA chud side of things where, you know, we're supposed to be proud about how bad the country is and losing our rights and the little freedoms that we do have when, hey, an invasion goes on.
That's cool, right?
We won the war, but then at home people are dying.
I agree with you, man.
Like, I want people in my country to actually be able to call their country the greatest.
I want that.
I just agree with everything you said there.
And I do think America is one of the best countries.
Like, I travel a lot.
And I'd say the American people are some of the nicest people you've ever met anywhere.
But the American government is the most evil, demonic government there is.
And as you said, they've been that for a very, very long time.
And you're right.
Basically, what you've got is there is no capitalist country right, this is just a facade that people have created.
In reality, you have.
Every country is a mixture.
China is a mixture.
The United States Of America is a mixture.
The only difference between the two is in the United States, the corporations run the government.
Obviously, I think the corporation is out of control, but that's a separate point.
But in China, it's the government that runs the corporations, but they're in bed with each other.
And it's actually the poor working class people who lose out.
And so they've trained the people into thinking, we're going to say no to, as you said, a basic human right of free healthcare.
We're going to say no to a basic human right of free education.
I came from a very poor working class area In poor working class areas I would say Yeah, all my friends never made it out In terms of into the manner that I did I became educated.
You know, I'm doing decent.
I'm doing well.
But my friends didn't.
And my friends were actually both white and Pakistani.
Now, the reason they didn't is because the education was much worse.
The opportunities are not there.
And so when a poor person, it's a lot harder already, based on the extreme poverty that they they've come from.
And so education is a basic right, as is health care, and what they've done is they've trained Americans to say, guess what, we don't want those for free, because we're not commies.
We're proud of it.
Yeah, we're sorry, we're proud of it.
Man, that's attitude is you get trained to, to make your chains rest lightly upon you.
I forget who said that, one of our founding fathers.
That's where we've reached, I think.
Yeah, I agree with what both of you are saying.
I think what we have to do, and I would add even more than just healthcare inside of that equation, I think you have to have a baseline of bare essential needs that actually allow a human to just exist and function and have food, clothes on his back, those types of things, access to clean water.
Even housing, I would put that on that list too.
Anything above that where we're talking about like phones and like internet and cool stuff like and things that you technically don't need to get by on and they're just luxuries Then meritocracy and a little bit of capitalism comes into play there.
If you want to make more, you go for it.
But we're not even meeting the bare minimum.
It's the point you made about us being socialists, but only for the rich.
And I view it as like you look at China, right?
You go, oh, the communists, oh, evil, oh.
But it's the same thing, right?
You got big companies there that are partnering with the state and the state has interest in them and has shares with them.
You know, they run each other and it's the same with us, right?
We fund the IT companies, the tech companies, the military companies.
We do the same thing and then we're proud of our situation and we say we're better than them when we're the same.
Perhaps worse.
Exactly, exactly.
So in reality, when I look at this, and it's actually just the rich benefiting.
And so all of these wars, as you mentioned, whether it's what's happened in Venezuela, if you look at all these decisions that are made in the financial market, when you look at all these trade deals, it's only the rich that benefit and the poor never, ever benefit.
And so in reality, what's happened is we need to go to a situation where we understand that we look out for the poor, we look out for the working class.
As I said, I spend a lot of time in the United States of America.
And I've never met an Uber driver who doesn't have two jobs.
They almost always have two jobs and they almost always work in 60 to 80 hours.
It's crazy.
And so we need to have a situation where they're given basic human rights and they're being given these opportunities.
I'm not saying give free stuff out, right?
But there needs to be a basic middle.
For example, now, look, I told you I made it, but I think there was a look.
Maybe I was a bit smart and a few things came my way.
But my children are going easy, right?
They're going to have it a lot easy.
Your children are going to have it a lot easier than you guys did.
This is literally the way of things.
And so it's not really based on merit.
It's actually based on what you are.
Actually, I wanted to ask you, Tim, what's your thoughts on reparations?
I don't agree with them.
I'll be honest.
I don't think that the people who are alive, I certainly wasn't alive during that time period.
And to punish somebody now who had no idea of what their ancestors did and say, well, you owe me money or like you shall be punished by this particular action.
Makes no sense.
I think it's a cheap way sometimes to be able to say, well, I'm in a bad economic system or situation, and it's a cry for help, and their only thing is to just go and look at, well, you've got money, you've got something I don't have, whereas that's the government's role to be stepping in, not necessarily Rex as a white guy to be like, alright, well, pay me $2 ,000 because your great -great -great -grandfather robbed me and took me from wherever.
Because I'll say, to be honest, This is a hot take, but I'm glad to a certain extent that my ancestor was one of the ones that got put into slavery and brought here because I get to live here.
I'm not in Africa in the Democratic Republic of Congo sitting there with mercenaries shooting around.
And this is an interesting point as to the whole white-black thing, and really it's an American thing.
I view it, and this is the thing.
I'll be honest.
I do care about Americans more than I care about other people.
I do think we should prioritize our own people first, as I think is the truth for any other country.
I would just make the argument we don't actually prioritize ourselves.
And I look at it.
We're sitting here hundreds of years of history in this country, good and bad.
You want to call it the ugly all of it.
Why can't we move forward for a better future?
And I'll add you one more thing to that argument.
Right now, there are systemic problems.
Yes.
The average black American is growing up in an environment that they weren't taught the right things.
They're not in the right environments to learn the correct set of skills to actually climb.
I was born into poverty.
My parents were as well.
I'm the first of my generation to get out of that because I had access to private school to be on the better education.
It talks to your point of we have to educate people.
But now, We're not in the 50s and 60s anymore.
Once I have the knowledge, there is nothing that is stopping me from achieving the levels that I want to in society.
I can go into a bank.
I can take out a loan.
How did you get to private school, if you don't mind me asking?
My parents, when I was growing up, came from poverty.
My mom, at one point, got the access to go to private school for free.
That's how she was exposed to that.
She was the first one.
And that was because it was some like almost like affirmative action plan thing where they were taking certain people in.
Program got you in a good place.
Yeah.
So what my mom did was my parents were very middle class.
They took everything that they had and they poured it into us going to a private school in Connecticut.
And the people there were able to give us an extreme discount in terms of a scholarship that paid for like 80 of the cost.
Now, even at 80 of twenty thousand dollars or thirty thousand dollars a year is a lot, but my parents made the sacrifice, like we want our kids to be in a different situation than we are, so we grew up poor because of the fact that they put everything they had into education and made that sacrifice powerful.
But that's amazing.
But then your mom managed to get it, based on a certain policy that gave her the opportunity.
Do you get what I'm trying to say?
schools.
I don't agree with them just giving everybody a blank $5,000 check because the person gets that, they go buy a pair of Jordans.
They go buy a box.
They're not sitting there and they don't know financial literacy.
You gotta teach a man how to fish.
You don't just give him the fish.
And that was done by design, too.
It's very interesting when you look at the black population in America.
You talk about the times a long time ago during slavery.
I'll talk about times recently like Jim Crow and then through LBJ and other time periods.
You had a community that I think had a single motherhood rate of around 20%.
And then you got LBJ that comes in.
He literally says, I'll have these bleep voting Democrat for 200 years.
And he implements the systemic but very selective single motherhood welfare policies designed to damage the fabric of y 'all's community.
And then the CIA comes in and says, we got drugs.
We got all the drugs you want.
And this is the cool culture.
And this is what you're supposed to do.
And then you look at it 50 years later and sadly, because of the U .S. government in many cases, it's a disaster.
I agree vehemently with what you said there, Rex.
Obviously, I think the Zionists were behind it intentionally, but obviously we can point that out another time.
But I agree with you.
And LBJ, we know his history and what he did for Israel.
But in terms of what you said, I do support reparations, actually.
And my reason for this is this, and you may disagree, but the way I see it is this.
Wealth is transferred.
So what I mean by that is, for example, me.
My child's going to be rich because I've got wealth.
Right?
And his child's going to be even more because what happens is you accumulate wealth.
So wealth is inherited, right?
And this is why we're against this major taxation of wealth because we accumulate the wealth.
Why is it the government's trying to take our wealth?
So if one accepts that wealth is inherited, and what that means is it goes from one generation to another generation to a third generation, you're able to accumulate that wealth.
So if you accept that wealth is accumulated or inherited, then also debt or the inability to get wealth is also inherited.
So, for example, a person who's part a black man right now, even though he wasn't in slavery at that time, but the fact that he was not able to accumulate wealth all that time, whereas someone like Donald Trump, who became rich because his parents were able to accumulate wealth and then he was able to build on that.
So you see his son now, he's already got a hundred million dollars, the youngest son, Barron.
100%.
Totally normal.
No, I agree with what you're saying.
Keep going.
Yeah, so based on that, I would say that there is actually a right for a.
It doesn't mean it needs to come from Rex, maybe from the government, but then it is a right for a person who has and is a product of slavery, so basically had debt inherited and the inability to inherit wealth, to now have an opportunity to get some of wealth former wealth and some of them, as you said, may waste it on some Jordans or some Ps5 or whatever it is, but some of them and then that will be their own fault.
But then, and just like when a rich guy, when my son, inherits it, you could use it and become a drug addict, or you could use it and build on what i've done and become even richer, and so that's why I think that there is a strong.
Let me clarify my position because I agree with everything that you're saying.
When you ask about reparations, I'm talking about the specific mainstream thing that I've heard from my own community as well as what's online.
And that is the idea of punishment.
Yeah, it's a punishment more than a how do we get forward because they're angry and they feel disenfranchised.
I see that argument that comes out more where they're not speaking to the government to necessarily do these programs.
They're asking for recs.
Or some random Joe Schmo who has nothing to do with it, you should be paying that punishment instead of us working on the system itself.
So when you're talking about the things when it comes to reparation and investing in the community, that is the part that I agree with because that's the only way.
We saw a little sample size of what it would look like if we just gave people blank checks and just let them do whatever if it was up to their decision.
And that experiment was called COVID -19.
and if you were here in the united states during that time period people were making more from the stimulus checks than they were from their own jobs and i watched so many people make the wrong decisions with that money because they didn't have the education and so that's what i mean it's like the parent doesn't just give the kid the money he teaches him how to use the money and he puts him in situations my parents to get me out of my situation didn't just like say all right Tim, here's the $10 ,000 you would have put into your education.
We're just going to give it to you.
No, they said, all right, we'll put it in the system that we know and force you to go through that system in order to actually get better.
So yes, the white school.
Yeah, go ahead.
I'll just finish this out.
Go ahead.
I also had the privilege to go to a public white school in which I was the only black person in my entire grade.
But you know what?
I had to move all the way to Massachusetts to a town called Hopkinton, which is right outside of Boston, in which the black population is .0001%.
And the black people can't afford to necessarily live there.
My mom made the sacrifice for us to go there too, right?
All I'm saying is, is that that school had a lot of money and was given a lot of programs in order to actually teach people the right things.
And the public schools where I came from were complete dog shit.
So yes, that's where the reparations in the building of the system, you have to go into these communities, which they are trying to do, but it's not at a large enough scale to actually make a dent like it should be.
Well, you know, if someone defames you, right?
Like if someone misrepresents you as being evil, cruel, barbarous, and then takes your ability to do something and does it on someone else, I think the American government owes reparations to the American people at large for making everyone hate us.
That's my opinion, just writ large.
Can you expand on that?
Well, I'm just saying, like, you know, I say Israel's a terrorist state.
I would say the same is true for our government.
Right.
And I would say that all the money that's spent or most of the money that's spent on defense should just be given directly back to the people and whatever social program needs to be set up.
That's my position.
I don't agree on any kind of racial or class -based punishment necessarily, except for taxing the billionaires, but it's a very interesting perspective.
I'd never heard an actual logical argument for the reparations.
I don't agree with it, but it's grounded in logic and fact, so I do appreciate the view.
No, I appreciate it.
And I know most people wouldn't agree, but it's just that it's good to have these conversations.
But I actually, just to clarify my position, I do believe in giving the money to the community, but also to the individual as well, because of this idea.
Where do you see the breakdown, though, in terms of like just giving it to the individual?
Do you not see the case that I'm talking about?
I agree with you.
That will happen.
But the point being, that will happen, and that will happen probably majority of the people.
And so, but the point is they've given the opportunity to do that.
So, just like my son, he's going to get the money and, as you see, some of the billionaire kids they'll, you know, drug it up and they'll be in.
You know, they'll become a drug addict and you know, whatever it may be, or some of them will use it and build more, but that's going to be his choice, just like I believe it's going to be the choice of the black person to do it now.
Is education important?
I agree with you, it is.
So you need to do dual things, you need to educate and illuminate, and elaborate.
Illuminate and give them this kind of understanding of how to use that money in a better manner, because we've only done that through experience, right?
So myself, even though I was educated I don't think I was, I think only until, probably now I realize, wait, I should be doing this with my money.
Probably this thing I did when I thought I was going to become a millionaire really fast within a few days is probably not the right way to do it.
So some of that has happened through experience and making the wrong decisions or whatever it may be.
Some of it, like you said, has probably happened due to education.
It happens through a wide range of things.
So I agree with you that those things need to happen.
But also I'm saying Because wealth is inherited Therefore And debt is inherited Therefore these people Should be giving that money And then if they spend it on Jordans Then guess what It was your fault.
But I don't believe it should be taken out of Rex's pocket.
I believe it should be taken out of the government's pocket.
The people who are basically becoming rich.
And, you know, in that wealthy situation, the government who basically ensures that they enrich themselves and enrich the corporations, they should be giving it to the, not someone like Rex or a working class person.
They're already struggling.
So I support any poor person.
So there should be benefit in any way.
My question would be, because I hear what you're saying, like we agree on one part, but not the second in terms of just giving them the money.
If you're a parent and you know a lot more things than your kids, right?
Let's say you've got like, you could have tons of bags of candy and your kids feel like they deserve it.
But you know at the end of the day by them consuming all of that candy they'll end up with cavities and all these side effects long term as they continue to consume the candy.
Let's say they had infinite amount.
Don't you still as the parent knowing the outcome actually let them make that decision?
Well True.
Human beings are like that.
Most of human beings will waste the money.
This is the nature of a man.
They're not very smart, right?
But the thing is, like, let's say I've got that candy and I can give my children it.
Now.
And I agree with you.
They need to be educated.
Now, once I've given it to my children and they've been educated, let's say two of them end up eating that candy, getting a disease and not being able to do anything with it.
That's their problem.
They inherited this ability to get that situation where they weren't able to give candy.
Now, to make it fair, they've been given candy just like, for example, your kids already had candy and Rex's kids already had candy.
My kids never even had an opportunity for candy.
Now it's like, you can have candy.
Two of them are idiots.
They end up spending it.
That's fine.
One of them thinks, you know what?
I'm going to take this candy and I'm going to sell it.
I'm going to use that money, buy more candy.
So then he'll have an opportunity to build.
And he's like, actually, now I'm much more richer than my dad.
Now I see where you're going, but I'm going to raise another counter to that.
If you look at somebody like a Donald Trump or some of these other people, because I grew around a lot of wealthy white kids, right?
The teachings are there with the money and the knowledge is passed down through generations.
So you're not taking that into consideration besides the money.
The percentage of people that end up having a bunch of money and just doing a bunch of drugs and the kid coming out that way, it's all about probability.
The probability of that happening versus them to go make a good living, an honest wage, do something with their life is higher than them becoming the drug addict.
It's all about probabilities.
So I'm saying that in reverse, the probability of them wasting that money is higher than them making the smart decision.
It's all about choosing the right option.
It's all about probabilities.
You should, as a person who understands statistics and what's the right thing for society, You have to push things in the right direction when it comes to those statistics, otherwise we just end up in a chaotic situation, right?
I agree with you.
So I agree that the probability that this person will waste the money is higher, and Rex is quite right.
Actually, with rich people, the reason actually the best way to accumulate wealth is probably not only the wealth that you have, but then also to use that wealth through your network of people that you have right.
So I agree, he's right.
So that person maybe won't have that opportunity immediately, and so someone like, for example, your mom, i'm assuming she probably didn't have the same opportunities, and now your network has grown a lot more than maybe your, than your mother's was.
So I agree with that.
But that being said, it comes back to the same point that I agree with you, that the majority of people will make bad decisions.
And so even if you put them in education programs, let's say we said every single person we're giving reparations to, we're going to force them to do three years of an educational program which will educate them and illuminate them on the way to deal with money and how to deal with it in the correct manner.
Even when you do that, I still say that probably the majority of people may not use it in the best manner possible.
Despite that being the case, where we're in agreement, I'm saying that just because the fact that Rex managed to get 10 bags of candy because his father gave him it and his father had 5 bags of candy and he gave him 10 and then Rex is going to give his children 20 bags and similar to you, your mum gave you 5 bags and now you're going to give your kid 10 bags.
They've got the candy.
My child has no candy.
They've got no opportunity and no chance.
They can get the candy but it's going to be a lot more difficult for them.
Your family's inherited the candy.
And so I'm saying that they should get the candy, and then yes, the majority of them will waste it.
We'll educate them, and even when we educate them, they'll waste it, but at least a large portion will.
Your argument, and I don't agree, but I respect your argument, is that they deserve it.
Ultimately, they have a moral right to this labor or this debt.
So that actually makes logical sense.
I think that even if you disagree with the position, I think that you'd have to lie to say that it doesn't make sense.
Yeah, and I would say the last thing on this topic is it's all about, you gotta put a clause and you gotta separate the adults from the kids because putting an adult in a class and getting them to do that is a lot harder than what people are willing and people are habitual by nature and there's an inflection point where you really can't teach an old dog new tricks.
You have to start at, The early ages is what I'm talking about.
So you don't just give the kid a bag of money and let them go and do that.
You start at the education level at the younger ages and let the parents have access to put their kids in that, and you have to start with a new generation.
I'm not saying that there's no saving the current generation, but it's really hard to change a whole group of adults that have already built in and sedimented in whatever practices that they did.
which is why i'm saying it's just it's you could take that money that you would have wasted on the people that would spend the jordans and actually invest on the new generation is what is where my macro level argument comes from sure sure So I agree with that.
So you could do it where you have a cutoff point.
You can do it where you give money to a specific community.
I'm saying both are needed.
You need to put money in the communities, whether it's working class white communities or working class black communities, whoever it is.
those communities need to be benefited i think irrespective of race but separate to that i'm saying this specific thing needs to be like an additional thing because of um like this whole reparation I see what you're saying.
I look at the whole thing, and I just look at us as a country, and I look at all the money that we've spent.
I look at the $6 trillion in Iraq, look at the $3 trillion in Afghanistan, the untold billions in Ukraine, untold billions given to Israel over the years.
And I look at us here, and it's like you said with your experience with domestic U.S. life and American people, people are working a lot, and they're not getting anything out of the system, right?
So I think we can all come together on the universal constant of wanting people to do better and wanting people to treat each other nicer based off being able to actually live and not being perpetually angry because that's the only state you're allowed to live in.
Because if you're not angry for a moment and you think about what your state is actually doing to you, you'll go into psychosis because it's so insane.
I'm just on that, Rex, because I think you made an excellent point.
You know who's getting reparations right now or who's actually getting money?
It's the Israelis.
So if you look at U.S. aid, they were getting billions.
It's true.
I can't even deny that.
And I'm not talking about the country.
I'm talking about Jewish organizations.
I'm talking about Zionist organizations.
I'm talking about synagogues.
They're getting a huge amount.
It's billions.
I did a tweet on it and I researched it.
It's like billions in U .S. aid.
So there's just money that's automatically going.
And some of it was Holocaust reparations.
Well, in Florida, you know, you're not allowed to buy bonds in any other country.
or you can buy them in the U.S. or you can buy them in Israel, the state.
The thing is the Jewish people know what to do with the money compared to the black community.
What?
Tell me I'm wrong.
They were already bankers in the Holocaust and they taught their kids and Jewish people know how to stick together.
I mean, they're wealthy.
They shouldn't be given reparations then.
Yeah.
Man, you know what?
You're phenomenal.
I thought this was amazing.
This has been great.
Every time we have a guest on, literally every guest we've had have been great talkers, great communicators, and they've provided a lot of depth and information that we, frankly, we don't have.
We're trying to acquire it, you know, we're trying to buff out our political positions and our thinking here.
It's been very interesting to talk to you, man, and thank you for spending so much time with us.
Nah, I appreciate you coming on.
This has been fun.
And I've enjoyed it I expected it to be hostile And it was just He did too I did, too.
I sat there, and I told him, I'm like, look, this is the gray area.
You're going to find that we have to be able to have these tough conversations and these are the important things.
The slop of all the other things never matters and I really appreciate the fact that we've all found at the end of the day, you know what?
We know exactly what the real route is.
We want to treat people good.
We want to treat people nice.
We don't want any more of this craziness.
And it's like you said at the beginning, I forget what you were referencing to, something being demonic or satanic or evil.
That's what all this stuff is.
It's against order, nature, and positive human life.
My dad, he had an old saying, he's like, you know what hell is?
It's a boot stomping on a human face forever.
And sadly, I think we're close to that.
You know?
So, like, that's what I was raised to be against, and that's my positioning now.
That's why we do the show, is to have these discussions.
Anything else in closing?
No, I just want to thank you, and I appreciate both of your views.
I think we're very much aligned on a lot of the points we said, so I mean, I thought your viewpoints were a lot different before I came on the show, so I really appreciate it.
Team Humanity, Pro Human, Pro Future, we can all live.
You gotta definitely come back on the show, and Rex and I have been seeing those spaces you're doing.
We would love to come on and just chat with you guys.
Definitely.
Come on.
It's hostile.
Obviously, you might get a bit harsher.
Because the audience maybe disagrees with some of your opinions of your father.
But that's not you, which you've clearly identified.
And this is the problem.
We all have different opinions.
I have different opinions to my parents.
They're very, very different in their viewpoints.
And so you come on.
And it's good.
It's a good conversation.
It trains your debating skills.
It's fun.
Would it be an honor and a privilege to have both of you on those spaces?
When I'm back in the US, if I'm in your area, I will definitely link up as well.
Thank you so much, man.
Really appreciate the time tonight.
Thank you so much for having me.
Have a nice night.
Wow!
We just hit it out of the park with the guests.
It's just home run, home run, home run, home run.
We ran out of bases, we ran out of players.
That was great.
Between everyone we've had, I will say he is the most educated person I have talked to in a very long time.
We were looking at his degrees before the show.
He's working on his PhD.
He's gone to college for this.
He's done a lot of research.
I could tell he knew what he was talking about, and he wasn't just spitting out factoids.
He actually had stuff to base it off of.
And there's stuff we disagree with, right?
There's stuff that me and you disagree with, but that doesn't matter.
What matters is coming together as humans and delivering the connection.
Yeah, man.
This is literally what the gray area is about.
People would be like, oh, well, you're black, you're white.
You're both hating each other.
Yeah, he's Pakistani, UK.
like we shouldn't agree on all these different things and that's what those people in the bucket Yeah, that's what those people in the dark corners want to make you do and want you to actually believe.
But we're going to continue to have people on here where you guys are going to be challenged by your beliefs.
Right.
I'm black and I didn't even agree with him on everything with the reparations.
Isn't that crazy?
Yeah, it's interesting.
there's diversity of opinion especially when you're dealing with people outside of the country right yeah so that's that's an interesting thing too because you know say whatever you want about the country the american experience as a citizen is a unique experience it is it's a very unique experience and it's from the outside looking in this is the one thing i forgot to ask him i wanted to ask him i was like for you guys just meaning people globally that aren't in the u.s is it like watching like sick reality tv i was gonna ask i forgot We got into the weeds a little bit.
We're building up guests, and I guess I'll just go ahead and drop it.
We're going to have Dominic Michael Tripoli on the following Sunday.
We're going to have Sean Johnson, who's a Navy SEAL, on Thursday the 22nd.
And then that week, which will be the week after next, we're going to have Alex Stein joining us Sunday.
So a lot of very important, a lot of very fun, exciting things are happening with Gray Area.
I'm also doing a solo show, Rex x Gray Area, and that's Monday, that's Friday, and that's Saturday.
Do it on Saturday, because if I don't do it on Saturday, y 'all go, oh, Shabbat, you're Jewish!
So I'm working on Saturday.
I'm going to do a Saturday show, as well as the Monday and Friday show, of course.
And we'll probably do two shows.
We'll probably do a morning show, which will be more supplement information.
It'll be more focused on TikTok.
And then we'll do an afternoon show where it's not TikTok included, so there's no censorship.
You get me unfiltered.
But we're really excited about this year.
We're in the middle of a tech upgrade.
We've got the tech priest working with us, Andrew.
We've got a tech priest.
We're going to have a new computer in here.
We're going to do virtual switching.
It's going to be so cool.
You're really going to witness a professional operation here on the gray area.
How excited are you for that?
Dude, I'm super excited.
I look forward to it every day.
I think it's crazy how we only started like four or five months ago, and the growth is just crazy.
Everybody who's in the comments, talking, and there's probably a lot of people who are new, who do not know who we are.
We appreciate you for being here and consider subscribing or following us on Twitter.
100%.
Seriously.
Because at the end of the day, this is what our gray area is about.
We're all about talking about the differences.
We're also not about being politically based in one side or the other.
There's no football team.
Sometimes Rex leans more conservative than me.
Sometimes I lean more conservative than him.
Sometimes I'm more left.
Sometimes you're more left.
That's the other thing, right?
And that's why, like we as Americans, we cannot.
I make this message every show, because it is so key.
We cannot do the football thing anymore.
We cannot do the Star Wars thing anymore, where you're on a team and the team is down and you're the underdog and it's the evil guy, but you just got to take him out when all the while, the person that set up the fight that you're in is profiting and betting off it on the sidelines.
Right, we're not doing that anymore.
And the thing is you don't actually even have to fight harder, you literally fight less.
You walk away.
You just say, i'm not living in your delusion anymore.
I'm not living in your uh, like the Pussy Hat Libtard world, not living in the Maga Chud world.
I refuse it all.
I want better things for Americans, for my family, for my state, for my country, 100 dude.
Well said.
For guys who have not been part of these Sunday segments, we always try to start off with a little bit of conversation, giving you guys updates on news, then trying to have a phenomenal guest.
Now we're about to start getting into the section where it's my favorite.
I take time to spend talking about a specific topic to give you guys insider knowledge and just history, context of the things that are happening today and what you need to know about it.
Those are our deep dives.
Is it in the folder?
Yeah, but we'll go ahead and cut over to our intermission while we wait.
Don't go anywhere.
We're literally going to be back in a couple minutes.
Short intermission and you're going to see a lot coming up shortly, specifically on Venezuela.
You're going to understand why Venezuela was the Dubai of South America and is no longer.
Alright?
So, let's go ahead and cut to the scene.
We'll be back, guys.
Be right back.
dreamed about romance a lot.
Men like Galahad and Sir Lancelot Always did the things I like to do.
Physically, I'm not as durable, but romantically, I'm impurable, and I'd like to do the same for you.
Well, I've got some castles I want to have built, baby, and I've got some dragons I want to have killed, baby.
I'll get into my seven-league boot, I'll get into my bulletproof suit, I'll get out my revolver that's true, and rat-a-tat-tat, down they'll go.
Oh, I've got some mortgages I want to have paid, baby, and I've got some villains I want to have laid, please.
After all my adventures are through, and I bring home the bacon to you.
I can tell all the papers you did it before.
I love you Boom Boom shakalaka.
Boom shakalaka.
We're back.
Alright.
This is my costume of the day.
I am the oil rigger.
I'm out here.
I work for Meta, not Chevron today.
But, you know, we're out here stealing the oil off the ground and we're the USA.
Well, it belongs to us anyway.
It belongs to us.
Our oil.
I'm American.
Alright, so I'm a construction guy today working in the oil field.
Alright.
So, here's what we need to talk about, guys.
Why Venezuela should be rich, right?
On paper, Venezuela should be one of the richest countries on Earth.
All right.
Isn't that true?
Yeah, the resources are off the chain, just the gas.
So we need to talk about the oil because I know everybody knows about the oil, but we got to go specific through the numbers.
Let's go ahead and pull this chart up for you guys.
Beautiful.
Oil reserves by country.
All right.
Proven oil reserves.
They have 304 billion barrels.
Billion.
Billion.
Okay.
That's more than Saudi Arabia.
That's more than Iran, United States, like by a dot.
Canada, Mexico.
Okay.
So that's roughly.
18 % of global reserves, and by their oil, and they could fuel to the world for like eternity, as long as the oil exists, because we wouldn't burn through it for a very long time, all right.
So peak production in the 1970s was about 3, .5 million barrels a day and at that rate Venezuela could pump oil for over 200 years, just at that rate, and It wasn't caused by running out of oil.
It was caused by the capacity, running out of capacity and the discipline.
So let's go ahead and show what's going on here with the next graphic here.
So this is the area that everybody talks about the billions and billions of dollars of oil.
It's called the Orinoco Belt.
It's the main region where all of that heavy crude oil Yeah.
crazy extraction yeah crazy extraction with specialized refineries and it costs more to extract than light crude oil that you would see in the united states and like saudi arabia makes sense on a second grade level right and the light and the heavy and hard to get out yeah So now...
That means, so Venezuela doesn't have the capacity on its own, especially when it found and discovered the oil, they didn't have the systems or the technology in place to do that.
That is why they needed countries from outside, like the United States, to come in and help process that extremely crude oil, right?
So now they need to depend on the foreign capital, foreign technology, foreign expertise, and that oil was never enough, right?
So the system is continuously is requiring on continuous investment in order to do those things.
So there was a time period where the whole system worked, guys.
Like the Venezuelan people had a golden age.
I mean, through the 1940s to the 70s, Venezuela actually prospered.
And some of the major players that were some of these outside companies included like Exxon, like we talked about Shell, you've got Chevron.
And, you know, one of the results is literally Venezuela was one of the most profitable and richest countries in the entire Latin America.
And their per capita actually rivaled some of the parts of Europe.
Oh, and trust me, I got videos too to show.
Oh, you got videos?
I'm trying to help.
I'm trying to pull up Venezuela in its golden age.
I'm seeing the photos here.
We got everything.
We got everything, right?
I'll stop putting a hat on a hat here.
You're good, man.
So all of that ends up being where there's a large middle class that emerges and everybody's prospering.
They had a PDVSA, which is like they took all of their most respected state oils and they basically combined them together.
And we can go ahead and pull up this clip real quick that kind of shows the prosperity.
Here in Venezuela, a forest of oil dedics grows from the water of Lake Verdecaima.
The golden age of Venezuelan oil sector was in the 1940s to late 50s, early 60s.
The bigger players were Exxon and Shell, but Chevron, too, made a lot of money basically exporting oil from Venezuela to the United States.
The situation couldn't last forever.
You had these social tensions start to come into play, like in many resource -owning countries around the world, where people start to question, are we, as the resource owners, benefiting enough from our oil reserves?
In 1960, Venezuela became a founding member of OPEC, a cartel of oil -producing countries that managed supply and thus prices.
And by the mid -70s, these were skyrocketing.
This brought enormous wealth into Venezuela.
By the end of that decade, its entire industry had been nationalized into the company Petróleos de Venezuela, known as Penevesa.
People in Venezuela at that time lived quite prosperous lives.
You had stories of secretaries flying to Miami for the weekend to go shopping.
you later have beauty pageants and things like that that Venezuela sort of became known for sort of showy wealth.
Dude isn't isn't that nuts?
It is pretty crazy.
Isn't that nuts?
You can go back to us.
What do you want me to do?
You can go back to us.
Alright, I'll go back to us for now.
Look, as a secretary, you could just go fly and you made enough money.
They're basically living like Saudi Arabia and like Dubai people at this point.
What's your thought about this stuff?
Well, I mean, they're a founding member of OPEC, right?
I think they're the only South American country to be a member of OPEC.
And whenever you look at a country like that, whether it's Venezuela or you look at a country like Turkey, where you have both NATO and BRICS membership, they're kind of unique geopolitical realities.
But it got cracked, didn't it?
It got cracked by the revolution.
100%.
Well, and it wasn't just that.
There's actually more details behind that.
And it wasn't even the revolution.
It was just bad decisions by their president and all of the actual government system.
And this is the thing I had to sit there and realize, wait, that's not the whole story.
I thought I knew the story until I actually looked into the story of how this thing ended up happening.
And it wasn't just like one of those things where like the United States was just like, we're directly responsible for it, right?
Like there is actually fundamental decisions that the Venezuelan government made.
But this creation of PDVSA actually was a good thing at first, right?
Like they were able to have oil prices surge as a result.
You had government revenue that increased sharply.
You had public spending that expanded.
And remember, all this money that's coming out is going into US dollars too.
So their currency is just completely rising.
So oil revenue was basically general government income.
And the problem was over time, the reinvestment in the infrastructure to actually mine the gold, I mean, sorry, the oil, it started to lag behind.
They had equipment that was starting to age.
They had efficiency that started to decline.
And so it set the stage.
And you're not talking about modern day where we got fancy stuff and we've kind of figured some things out.
You're talking about way back when where they're digging these things, they're putting them in there, and then they're not taking care of them.
Right.
That's boom!
Constantly have to reinvest in the new technology and keep up with the maintenance of these machines that actually run the system.
And in manufacturing, that is a very big no -no to just let your machine run for decades and put high output without actually having general maintenance programs in place.
So now we set the stage for this political control.
Alright, let's look at Hugo Chavez.
In 1998, Hugo Chavez, a former military officer who had been imprisoned for a failed coup d'etat, won the presidency.
His victory ushered in a wave of new state controls.
He passed a number of laws in the early 2000s, which effectively meant that Pellevesa, the state -owned oil company, had to own a majority share in all the joint ventures across the country.
The two bigger American companies, which were Exxon and Conoco, decided to leave the country, to not accept the new terms that Chavez had imposed, and basically they went into international arbitration.
Chevron, however, took a different approach.
Chevron's Venezuelan business was led by Ali Mashiri, who ran their Latin American operations.
He had a very strong personal relationship with Hugo Chavez.
This was really the beginning of kind of a special relationship between Chevron and Venezuela that no other foreign oil company enjoyed.
To give you an idea, 20 years later today, Conoco is still owed, for example, more than $10 billion from the awards of arbitrations.
They sound different than Central.
Yeah.
They really do.
What do you think?
What do you think about this, dude?
it's like you know it just seems like it should just be common sense that you should just do the right thing and i i see why he would have wanted to actually nationalize and take control because they were afraid that these american companies were actually robbing uh the the venezuelan people and that they didn't have the best interest because the problem problem is you get all the investment out of the country yeah when you do that you
And at the same time, it's like a catch -22 situation where you kind of need them in order to actually keep functioning to do the job, but then you actually don't want them because they're actually making most of the benefit more than yourself.
That's very interesting.
It seems like a devastating miscalculation.
On the Chavista.
Now, this wasn't even just the worst part of it.
Like, when Chavez took control in 1998, and you can go ahead to this next slide.
I will.
The oil prices were about $25 per barrel, right?
And then, if you look at 2008, it surged to $146 per barrel.
And now, part of it is not just everything that he did, but there's also other countries and OPEC that's involved.
But he did a pretty good job up to this point.
Right?
And so a lot of the reinvesting of the oil revenue and the maintaining the wells and pipelines and upgrading refineries and training engineers and diversifying the economy, they didn't do it.
Right.
So if you look at the supply, now go over to the next slide, you're going to see like what happened after eventually the actual contribution to the oil, the world oil supply actually started to drop off drastically.
Well, it makes sense.
It makes sense why the price would go up to you're taking the country that could potentially be the biggest producer of the resource and you're essentially you're saying, oh, we don't need the West.
We're going to figure this out ourselves and they lose the ability to run their own operation.
It runs into the ground and the prices spike.
Interesting.
100%.
So, if you look at it, like, The social programs, the rapid expansion of healthcare, food subsidies, and assistance program, they weren't doing the things that they needed.
And many of the projects that they were doing, the long -term funding plans or oversight didn't exist.
And numerous programs that they tried to do just stalled or disappeared and the revenues failed.
They basically just misspent the money on what they were trying to do.
So then they also had a politicization of PDVSA in which they had thousands of experienced engineers and managers that were removed for labor disputes and replacements were often, for those guys, were politically aligned but less experienced.
Like you were just putting your best buddy that actually agreed with you in the same position that an experienced engineer would actually hold.
And so then payrolls expanded.
And then the technology capacity has declined.
So you're basically giving everybody pay raises, but the stuff the money actually needs to get spent on is not getting spent on.
Have some money, boys.
Have a good time.
Everything is good.
You like my policy, so here's a million dollar check, and we won't give that to the actual people that need it.
We talk about it a lot, and we talk about it in American context, but it's not universal to the American context.
I mean, we're going to spend the money on the real problem, and we're going to fix the real issue, and that never happens.
Period.
Any system of government.
Imagine having all that money and just mismanaging it.
A lot of the oil also were actually sent to regional oil commitments.
Oil was supplied to foreign partners under discounted Payments and delayed payments arrangements.
And so like the near -term revenue and the foreign currency inflows were reducted.
So like a lot of these Caribbean areas, they had deals set up with them where they would give the Caribbean countries like discounted oil where they say, all right, look, You can pay at a discount rate and then basically pay us back over two years for that particular amount of oil that you bought to give them preferential.
I don't know why they did it.
It didn't work out long term.
And so overall, the oil revenue is flooded.
The oil revenue funded food, consumer reports, and then stick shrink.
So a big part of it is, what is it called?
There's a term for it.
And maybe I'll talk about this later.
It's called Dutch disease, where all of your revenue comes from one resource.
And then you become specifically reliant on that revenue from that source that all the other sectors fall.
I think that's the tulip market that that comes from.
Maybe I'm wrong.
It is called Dutch disease at the same time.
Maybe it has two words.
They overvalued tulips and they had like a whole stock market on tulips.
I'm probably wrong.
Someone in the comments is going to be like, no, no, no.
Sorry for being ignorant.
No, you're good, man.
You know, it wasn't just Chavez.
So Chavez dies, right?
And then that system's already weakened.
And then Nicolas Maduro actually follows up, right?
And so you have this graphic you can show everybody.
The crash.
So in 1970, 3 .5 million barrels a day.
By 2020, this fell to 600,000 barrels per day.
And a lot of these wells and refineries failed because there was no money or skill to actually fix them.
And so it comes back to that thing that I was talking about.
More than 90% of Venezuela's exports came from oil.
No diversification in one sector.
And so when one resource brings almost all businesses, stop investing everywhere.
To start the farming, the manufacturing, the local industry, and their skills.
They're not even there to begin with.
Yes.
Why are they?
any business in your country to the main business.
And it's like, who wants to go try to make money in a sector that's underfunded?
I don't.
Do you?
No.
Hell no.
Right.
So over time, this country forgets how to make anything else.
And so that's the Dutch disease that I'm talking about, where one resources crowds the rest of the economy and lets the other sectors decay.
And then you can see what Saudi Arabia and a lot of these like Middle East oil rich countries are trying to do.
They see what can happen to them, especially if the world doesn't become reliant on oil anymore.
They're cooked.
Because most of their money that is allowing them to have these labors spending, it comes from oil.
So now they're trying to incentivize the youth in those regions to start taking up engineering and let's, hey guys, you guys should probably do this and you should probably do this other thing that benefits the country because there's a knowledge gap.
Because they don't do anything else but just mine oil.
Yeah, you know, I disagree with it.
I consider it imperialist aggression.
I'm against it on its face, but it does make sense for the U .S. to be like, oh, okay, you're not doing your things over here, and you're having China come over here and poke around, maybe going to do the development?
Nah, we're going to kidnap your leader.
He's going to be in jail with 6ix9ine.
And Diddy.
And Diddy.
And Luigi Mangione.
Luigi's there too?
Yeah, they're all there.
Damn, it's a pizza party over there.
They're making a new movie.
Pizza party over there.
Suicide Squad.
Well, so, I mean, look.
It's becoming a lose -lose.
And by the way, the Venezuelan people have no control over their government.
They just have to do what they say.
Imagine going from your peak and then having your inflation go up an insane amount.
What ends up happening is you have net emigration, right?
where people are leaving the country and so right and that's that's what the rich venezuela go ahead and show this because this is shocking I didn't know these numbers.
Look at these numbers, guys.
This is no joke.
You had about 28 to 30 million people in Venezuela, and more than 6 million people fled.
That's one in every five Venezuelans.
What are the percentages coinciding?
So those are the percentages of them leaving to their country and how much the immigration has increased in that prospective country.
So them leaving, let's say, Venezuela and going to Colombia.
Thousand percent.
Thousand percent increase in the amount of Venezuelans coming into their countries.
Interesting.
So I thought a ton of them came here.
It's only 14%.
It's not.
See, this is why we dive into it, man.
Yeah, but is that true?
It is.
Like, really?
Because I thought five million of them came over here.
just think about it from just a basic logic standpoint, right?
Why would you move from your country into another country that has- A trillion miles away.
It doesn't speak the same language.
You know what?
That makes sense.
It changed my mind.
Why do you think Spain would have higher than the U .S.?
They speak Spanish.
I'm going to look into this, but I'll agree on a preliminary basis.
That's shocking.
Here's the thing.
It's those things between headlines and realities, and Suleiman was hitting upon that at certain points where he's like, look, the immigration on certain things is being exaggerated to a certain extent.
Most of the immigration happened to those other South American countries.
I don't know if they really care that much because it's a lot of the similar culture aspect.
I haven't talked to a guy from Peru or Brazil or Uruguay.
The Venezuelan I talked to told me that the rich ones came here.
That would make sense.
Because at the end of the day, Colombia is not like Ecuador.
Let's take Ecuador.
You're not going to sit there and tell me that you're going to make more money going to Ecuador than going to the United States.
No.
So the ones that are educated, know English, have the resources to make it to the United States, I'm sure they did.
Excellent.
Next slide?
Yeah, you can go to the next slide.
Okay, so one of the things that we also need to talk about is about Maduro, right?
So one of the things that we'll do a separate deep dive on this.
We won't talk about it right now on the invasion as well.
Well, that and then specifically Maduro and the whole fair elections thing, because there's a lot of controversy over whether he won legitimately or illegitimately too big of a heavy topic to actually cover in something like this.
But let's say, like, for example, it's kind of widely understood that it wasn't that straightforward.
And if he blocked elections, basically it led the United States to back the opposition is what ended up happening, right?
So under Donald Trump, he started sanctioning.
And you can see when he started imposing those sanctions in 2019, it was about government officials being sanctioned, banks.
You had the state oil company of Pedevesa being sanctioned, and those sanctions reduced the oils and sales and access to cash.
So the collapse had already started before the sanctions, but it worsened as the United States had taken that hardline stance where they didn't have access to certain resources that they did before.
So the oil is still there, but the rest of the economy had been allowed to fall apart.
Then Biden came in, reversed a lot of those things.
He tried to take the democratic approach to say, hey, let's do this with a cooperation type-esque thing and incentivize them to actually do business with us the proper way.
And then you can see the investment going back up.
So, I mean, in conclusion, the Venezuela collapsed and all of their money wasn't caused by the lack of oil.
It's still there, guys.
I mean, it was...
My bad.
You're getting a shit.
Ah!
Ah!
Punished!
Punished by the screen.
It was caused by declining reinvestment, politicized institutions, overliance on one single resource, and then the erosion of the technology and the capacity to actually mine the oil and actually keep up with the maintenance.
So that's all I have for you guys.
What do you think?
Very interesting.
You know, I didn't know a lot of that stuff.
I didn't realize how monopolized their industry was around one commodity, right?
And I think a lot of the times when you do these deep dives, and I make this point nearly every time you do a deep dive, people will be like, oh, I know the information.
I'm smart.
I'm aware.
Oh, how dare you?
it's a show for kids and it's like well no like ultimately we all need to know the basics the basics are the foundation of life ultimately and if you don't know the basic facts about a country and what happened there and when and how then how can you make a rational geopolitical argument about holding a position about what should happen in that place when you're unfamiliar with the information right and i feel wiser now knowing what i know about venezuela knowing some of the history behind it and really like it's it's that's what you're talking about It's a cautionary tale.
Showing why diversification is necessary in a modern economy.
100%.
And also skill acquisition and having proper educational access in your country.
So I totally agree.
And sometimes we, like I said, the United States takes some of that for granted where like we don't really have as much as the skill problem when it comes to things because of the fact that like we kind of suck up all the brain around the world and not even just that we have a lot of smart people here.
So like a lot of the reason why the United States is flourishing is because of like the amount of like technology and advancements.
We don't need other countries to come in and refine our oil for us or do some of these technology advancements and rely on other countries.
That is a big part of it too, because we already have access to it.
Yes.
Our problem also is now we've outsourced a lot of it too.
And now you see Trump.
Trying to reverse it and be like, oh wait wait wait wait, but it's almost too much too late.
And that that's interesting thing, like the saying is too little, too late.
I feel like the Trump administration, the whole thing is too much too late for for to change, to change all these things.
They're like when you, when you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail right.
So it's very interesting to get into all of it.
I mean like we were talking about in the transition from the interview to the deep dive, or like I was talking about when you were taking care of business right, The gray area, we've got a lot of things lined up this year.
We've got a lot of things set in our minds and our hearts.
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We really want to do.
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We've already talked about that.
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Right.
right it's super fun and we tried to actually give you guys information and in a way in which we talk about the history we talk about the past so that way you can make better decisions and understand what are people talking about because the more informed you are the more you actually get to sift through the slop right now and understand okay what are people actually lying about what are people telling the truth about and that's the thing i really appreciate about sulaiman is like dude knows a lot I can't even front.
And that's what we require to have someone on as a guest on the show is we require an expert.
This is not the thing where you're wearing the black rifle coffee hat and you're trying to sell people on Trump.
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Off additional to your order, and people have called in uh about elemental drive specifically and what it does, the whole purpose for people who don't know what primal core is.
And people have called in about Elemental Drive specifically and what it does.
We took the concept of like there are things that have always worked for thousands of years, that humans have taken right, and we're deficient in those things nowadays right, or we don't use them.
And these other companies and corporations and people are going out there giving you these crazy supplements and drugs yeah, all different combination, when all you really need is the basic elements and the core foundations that your ancestors were absolutely so.
That's what people are feeling when they take it, because they didn't realize oh, i'm actually deficient in this thing, and that's that's so phenomenal to realize.
Because all this is is the highest quality, highest quality minerals, highest quality form of the minerals five of them that you can find an elemental drive all designed to support cognitive function, nootropic function.
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And what is ashwagandha?
I mean, Nick Fuentes takes ashwagandha.
Tons of people take ashwagandha.
What is ashwagandha?
At the end of the day, ashwagandha is something that we call in the supplement industry an adaptogenic herb, and that means that herb has metabolic effects on your body's processes, specifically to lower cortisol and raise testosterone.
So when you take this blend together in concert, when you take the ultimate Ashwagandha, which lowers your cortisol and raises your testosterone, according to all the studies, and you take it in concert with the elemental drive, which boosts your body's natural capacity to do all the things you should be able to do already, and that's the key we're and it's like you say we're not offering people steroids, we're not offering people a magic pill, stimulants yeah, nickname yeah Yeah, yeah.
This is time -tested, time -proven stuff that's been around for thousands of years.
You literally require the stuff in this formula specifically to live and to live properly.
If you're deficient in those minerals, you are going to feel bad.
And that's why we see with people that take zinc that are deficient in zinc alone, this has zinc in the best form combined with four other high -quality minerals and nutrients.
People can see up to 90 % increase in their testosterone if they're deficient.
So that's incredible.
And you've got boron on top of that.
In normal, healthy individuals with high testosterone, boron supplementation can raise testosterone by up to 36%.
Free testosterone.
And this isn't just exclusive to men.
This is something that women can take and actually receive benefits as well.
Yes, and that's the key because it's things that both men and women need.
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But I do want to take some calls.
You want to take some calls?
Let's just take a couple.
We'll put the number out.
y'all better call in if y'all don't call in then you know yeah everyone everyone's asked about like hey call in and then we get like we always call in We get one or two, right?
We're going to get this whole thing set up real quick for you guys.
But when you guys, we want to hear from you.
Right now, we're having numbers set up.
Full maximum to call in.
You're going to get the phone number and if the number uh goes to like this uh, you know busy noise that means all three slots have been filled.
Okay, so we're working on getting this set up.
Uh, let's see, and in the future we'll yeah, we appreciate all y'all being here Tim, if you want to go ahead and set it up yeah, so like for for the, the wackadoodles and for the people that consider themselves to be, you know the height of being informed.
We reviewed, connected as the host.
Welcome, host.
You are now in the host room and can manage your callers from the call-in studio web interface.
Sitting on the moon that knows everything.
Maybe our show isn't for you, right?
But then you have to ask if you're that person, like, why haven't you fixed all the world's problems yet?
Right?
This is true.
So we're just sitting here doing basic stuff at the end of the day.
But we're live now.
The number to call in, we'll go ahead and put up the intermission screen here in a second.
But I'm going to read it off a few times.
It's 512 -675 -7144.
That's 512 -675 -7144.
And it's about to pop up on the screen.
You guys can see it.
6 -7 in there.
Oh no.
Oh no.
We didn't realize it.
Oh no.
6 -7.
Alright, we'll be right back.
You guys can call in using this number.
All in, please.
We appreciate it.
it when people call in.
We really do because it's few and far between.
It's crazy because I see probably like five different chats across the various streams.
They're like, open the lines up.
Why are you running?
They're like, open the lines up.
Talk, talk.
And we're giving you guys a chance to actually talk to us.
And only one or two people want to talk.
Now we've got another person in here.
But it's like, guys, there's 6,000 people.
I'm sure there's a couple people that just want to have a genuine conversation.
We're not dangerous.
We don't bite.
We're just having fun.
We're just having fun.
We just want to have fun with you guys and let you guys enjoy it on the fun with us.
So let's go ahead and talk about this.
Who do we have on the line right now?
Hey guys, I'm back.
It's Lauren.
Hey, how we doing?
How we doing?
How we doing?
I'm doing good.
It's a nice Sunday night.
I really, really enjoyed y 'all's discussion today.
I luckily got to be able to hear pretty much majority of from start to finish.
And it's just a nice to kind of just hear different views and like kind of a safe space where people can disagree.
or I can have like some curiosity to do my own research because like in my own perspective like over time I mean I get I get the media just like everybody else growing up you know you talk about Islamic terrorists you talk about I mean I also have friends who are from all different types of religion and I hear their perspectives and you know it's just been interesting to see a show where you know all three of you guys can just
have a nice civil discussion and ask curious questions without you know attacking each other and it just felt like really nice and then of course I'm gonna do my own research because I didn't agree with everything he said either which parts did you not agree with I didn't agree with everything either.
Yeah, I agree with everything.
But, I mean, it made me curious enough to go fact-check myself again to make sure, like, was I wrong, you know?
We're back now.
Alright.
Sorry about that, guys.
Alright, go ahead.
I'm literally getting a new mouse.
This is tomorrow.
Alright.
Continue.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
So, like, it was just a good, nice discussion.
So, I appreciate you guys keep bringing these guests on that are expanding my mind, dude.
They're definitely expanding my mind and, like I say, and everything that I might come up on here.
Keep up the good work, guys.
Uh, we appreciate it.
It's about you talk about, like growing up with the media and whatnot.
Very oftentimes the media does not deliver, just never.
They never deliver you an expert.
They deliver you someone that their job is to read what's in front of them right.
And then the expert that they have on is a guy that's paid by the network a million dollars a year to come on and push whatever agenda right and that's through the network sponsors or whoever's running the network.
We get into it, but We're trying to do something here on the ground level where we're able to get higher quality guests than cable news because these people are available.
They want to have their voices heard and they are experts.
It's like you say, you don't have to agree with anything or everything someone says.
I certainly like I have my disagreements with things that he said, but there are also things that I do agree with.
And really, it's just the core rational thing of being like, OK, we can actually have these discussions and we don't actually hate each other because at the end of the day, we're all, you know, it's funny because he thought it was going to be hostile.
I thought it was going to be hostile, too.
But, you know, I appreciate him treating me as an individual.
A lot of times, people don't do that.
They lump you with your dad.
Yeah.
Well, it's a whole thing.
So, I thought he was very honorable, and I do appreciate that from our guests.
What else is on your mind?
I feel like you guys should bring him back on again.
I mean, I want to hear more things.
I feel like we scratched the surface on some of his beliefs.
on our own things and i mean i'm a fan of educated people i'm educated myself um so i always like hearing people who are scholars and you know did the work to learn you know what they believe and um you know fact checks themselves to an extent from the education system that they went through but it was cool although that discussion about recreation killed me yeah what was your perspective on that
Well, I mean, I never revealed my race to everybody, but I'm actually a black woman, and I, too, don't subscribe to the whole hand me money because my ancestors, the African Americans who built the country or whatever, like, you're going to hand me a nice stimulus check, and all of a sudden it's going to make me have rainbows.
there overnight or something like that's just stupid and like I did the hard work to get into college um my parents did the hard work to get all of us get me educated and I worked hard as an American I think every American should should work hard for whatever they value um regardless of what their upcoming was right regardless if they came from poverty or regardless if it came from uh Ruth's family Everything requires hard work in America.
And I think that we all can agree on those American values.
That's what makes America amazing.
An amazing place to live is that we have social mobility.
We have abilities to climb from the bottom up and make something of yourself.
And so I think reparations is almost like a cop -out to say like, well, you know, you came from what the circumstances were.
But I think it's a defeatist mentality.
It's almost playing into the victim mentality that someone needs to be saved.
Now, I do agree that people need to be educated.
All people, regardless of race, every single American needs to have a foundation of education so we can continue to make this country great.
Do I think I need to be handed a check?
no um do i think i think i got all the things i needed resource wise because my parents are smart enough to put me into a nice education system right You know, and like I said, we didn't come from anything, which it was all up to them to make those choices, but I don't know.
His perspective on it was also pretty interesting.
I mean, like I said, he's a pretty interesting dude.
Like, I'm intrigued.
and I'm intrigued to learn more about him and intrigued to see him back on the show if you want him to come back and I think from the conversation how it ended this mouse is going to be the end of the show Thank you, Lauren.
I really appreciate your perspective for me.
So, like, he talked about reparations, then he also talked about social welfare programs, and then how reparations could kind of resemble something like that.
What's the feedback there?
That's me.
Sorry.
Okay, it's all good.
My thinking is, I think every American is owed by the government because of what the government has done in our name for the past few or several decades, depending on how you look at it.
And I look at it as a thing of, okay, we are an American experiment, an American project.
We have prior existing good and bad relationships with each other as just groups of people or as how we identify.
But there's one universal constant is we're not getting what we deserve because the people in power don't represent any of us at all.
They represent old people live in Florida.
And that's it.
So for me, I look at it as something that's like, why does it have to be racial?
And like, if people are poor and more people are poor in minority communities, why can't we just help poor people in general?
And like, why do we have to be like, no, this is actually, even if it doesn't punish anybody, even if it's from the government, this is a punishment on white people.
And then the black people get the money because of the evil white man.
We live in a modern age.
you're like we got to let that go we really got we really got to let that go because if we don't let it go we're gonna live in ashes and huts and like It's time to be civilized.
Time to not hate each other.
No, it's time to press the nuke.
Nuke it all.
That's what the boomers want.
That's what the old people want.
Thank you, Lauren.
I appreciate it.
We appreciate it.
Anything else in closing?
Anything in closing?
I don't know.
I'm going to say it as I always do, guys.
keep up the good work and i will continue tuning in because i i see you guys growing i see all the work that's being put into all the elements of the show i see the solo show you did rex i tuned in for a little bit for that um and i definitely stay tuned to more things that you guys are doing and i'm excited for the next people you guys have been going on i forgot you
The names of the two people you said you're going to have on for next week.
But, yeah, I guess drop information about that because I want to figure out who these people are.
I had no clue who these people you referenced.
We should do a thread.
Where it's all the interviews tied together?
No, a thread on the person.
Who is this person we're bringing on?
Maybe that would be interesting.
Or a little post and blurb underneath.
Right, because Lauren's saying she wants education.
Like, what's going on?
I think that would be phenomenal.
I want to start doing that.
We can make that happen.
I think that's good.
We'll tie two posts together.
One that explains who they are and the post of, you know, who's coming on.
That's a good idea.
I mean, on the minimum, tag their name because, I mean, I can at least go.
I mean, I'm a big researcher.
So I'll just go and check out the site.
I'll go and Google them.
So it's not like it's that deep.
But as more on, I need to know the name so I can at least be like, oh, let me put a calendar reminder in my phone.
Yeah.
So I don't forget who's coming on the show.
Well, thank you, Lauren, for joining us tonight.
We appreciate all the good feedback.
We got another caller here to bring in.
Thank you, Lauren.
Hell yeah.
Kudos to you guys.
Take care.
Thank you.
All right.
We got New Groper.
What's up, New Groper?
What's up, boys?
Yo, yo, yo, yo.
How we doing, man?
Yo.
Dude, hanging in there, enjoying the satire world we live in.
Right.
It's just hilarious at this point.
We're having fun.
We're having a lot of fun.
I wonder, is the X -Feed dead?
Are you able to message in the X -Feed, New Gripper?
Has the X -Feed died?
The X -Feed might have died.
Can anyone message?
Let me see.
We're just not seeing the messages on our end, you know?
Might just be a glitch.
It's live.
Okay.
Everybody's just really quiet and just watching.
Everyone's just really quiet.
6 ,000 people.
Alright.
Did you catch the interview?
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, I caught a good bit of it.
I mean, you know, I don't know, I'm going to sound, yeah, I have a different perspective.
As an American, I don't care what foreigners from another country have to say honestly.
I mean, that guy seemed like he was well put together, but at the end of the day, this wasn't my, you know, wasn't my thing, which I'm sure is, you know, it's on brand for me.
I'm sure that doesn't surprise you guys, but, you know.
Hey, at least he wasn't Indian, right?
There's a running joke, guys.
You guys don't know.
He won't take an Indian product.
He won't take an Indian product, so he won't be taking Ultimate Ashwagandha ever.
He's true blue and American.
Keep going, man.
I've actually become more vigilant.
I've learned that a lot of household products are made in India, so now I avoid those too.
I at least try to be consistent.
The latest one I found are sponges.
Like, to clean with.
It's like, yeah, I'm not cleaning something that was made on a floor in India.
You got an iPhone or Android?
It's kind of counterproductive.
You got an iPhone or Android?
Nope.
No?
No Android?
I have an iPhone.
I have an iPhone.
i mean what i mean we like so here's my thought there's a difference between something that's made of like precious metals and then consuming something with into my body and or you know it prolonged you know exposure like like coining products and stuff thank you I just kind of put them in different categories.
I see what you're saying.
What's your thoughts about the guest?
Like I said, I think he was put together.
Like I said, it wasn't necessarily my cup of tea, but it doesn't have to be.
I've been keeping, you know, the whole wars going on in different places.
I've been kind of keeping my eyes open for the things that are going on, particularly with Venezuela and our domestic illegal roundup that we're trying to do and things of that nature.
So that's where a lot of my focus has been.
And by the way, Rex, I think we found, I found the first thing that I really disagree with you on.
What was that?
The ice raids.
What in regard to the ice raids?
Well, I don't, in fundamental, like fundamentally, I think there is agreement in like, you know, we both want legals to be rounded up at home.
But the disagreement is regarding how the ICE has been militarized.
And I think, frankly, I think it's a necessity.
With your run -of -the -mill immigration, I would say what's going on now is, or I would say if that was What has been historically understood, then this would be excessive, but what we have is a full blown insurrection.
It's led by leftists.
These people were brought in mass.
They're making wearing centers.
They're stealing billions of dollars from us.
The only regret that I have is that ICE doesn't conduct raids like the military did in Fallujah back in 2003 and 2004.
Damn.
And go house to house and yank them out in the middle of the night and zip tie them and drag them out.
The issue I have is when the guy in front of the car, when she puts the car in drive, whenever she comes forward on him, the first shot he fires is justified.
He's in front of the vehicle.
Right?
And she's ultimately, you can argue what speed it is, she's in the process of running him over.
But the two follow -up shots, when you're clear from the vehicle and you have your gun, you're braining out an American citizen.
And then we're like, OK, well, we have to have we have to have we have to have ice at the level of operations they're at.
And they have to be able to do these smash and grab operations and get these get these illegals in a truck and out of here by any means possible.
I just say, well, look, if we're going to do that, then what happens when President AOC comes in and uses DHS to take people's guns?
And it's like, oh, well, the President's already there.
Oh, the Republicans, they did it, and then we can make the moral argument of, oh, when we did it, it was right, and for the right reason.
When you're doing it, it's wrong, and it's for the wrong reason.
They're still going to do it.
That's why I'm against it.
ISIS grew in 2003, along with the Patriot Act.
That's why I can't support it.
Well, you know, practically speaking, if they go hard enough now, he'll have time to decommission it before he exits office if he stops being a pansy about it.
Yeah, but that's the thing.
They're not on track.
Can I add to this?
The problem with it is not necessarily going in and deporting people who are illegal.
In terms of criminals and maybe people who shouldn't be here.
The problem is they set a quota.
They put pressure on the local law enforcement.
First of all, not everybody who's an ICE agent is actually trained in ICE.
They actually took people from different orgs because they didn't have enough people to do the mass deportation.
Trump set an expectation.
He set an agenda and he said, this is the number.
Hit it.
Regardless.
So when people do that, there's called a top -down authority pressure that happens from there in which your boss says a number, you better hit it.
And we all hate when the cop pulls us over to pull his quota because it's the end of the month.
True.
And it's like, why are you doing this?
Well, here's your ticket.
Right, here's your ticket, right?
Because I have to.
So he set the quota, they set the quota at like 3 ,000 illegals a day, right?
Which isn't even like humanly possible with the amount of resources they have.
And then they added another clause where they said, well, in order to hit that, because we can't investigate everybody.
Anybody you see that looks like under reasonable suspicion that they would be an illegal, go and capture them too.
And that's the problem I have.
It's like there's no due process to really investigate.
Like, you know, you have a list of the guy who, like, actually committed a crime, went to prison for it, or maybe got booked in jail, and there's a whole list of those people.
Go after those ones, not the woman who's walking down the street with her kids that kind of looks suspect.
I know where you two disagree.
That's where my disagreement is.
Snatch them all.
I would agree with New Grouper on getting everyone out of here.
I think as many people should be gotten out of here as possible.
I mean, over 20 million people came over here in the last four years alone.
You can't tell me those people are integral to the American economy and if they leave, everything collapses because five years ago, things were running.
But can we not agree?
Real quick.
Where I have the different position, whereas you're making the argument of moderation, New Grouper's making the argument of getting them all out of there.
It's how you get that done.
And I think that Trump had an opportunity to get that process done or to start getting that process done in a non -offensive way that could be carried on and over into another administration as a policy that was proven to be good.
And then with this, with the performance, I know, New Gripper, you're not happy with Trump.
We're not happy with Trump.
At the end of the day, he is the representative of the Republican Party.
Right?
The thing we're all, oh, we're supposed to vote for it because the Democrats are so evil.
But when the Democrats get in, they're just going to use it as an excuse to go even harder.
And it's just acceleration.
They'll defund ICE.
You're going to end up with the same situation.
They'll do something.
Go ahead, New Group.
Well, you know, I would say this.
The immigration crisis we have is unlike anything we've ever seen before.
It was a foreign invasion.
It was designed that way by the leftists.
Not only should these immigrants be snatched up in the middle of the night, the Democrat politicians who were responsible for the fraud and everything else should also be snatched up and sent to jail or something because it's ridiculous.
It's high treason.
It's like that lady, and everybody talks about this lady who got iced out.
And frankly, I'd have mag dumped her too.
Because here's the thing.
You have no idea, like when you're in a high stress situation, right?
And somebody is trying to murder you with their vehicle.
The time of calculated response is over.
That is attempted vehicular homicide, is what that is.
That is attempted murder.
And she knew that.
But the thing is, she had never in her life Ever had consequences for her actions.
So she literally thought that she was going to go in there and impede a federal operation.
A lawful one at that.
And then, you know, attempt to run somebody over to get away because she didn't want to get pulled out of the car.
That's her fault.
I'd have viced her out too.
I'd have put her on a t -shirt as well.
I give the guy the benefit of the doubt and somebody told me this on the last stream was, and I haven't checked if this is true.
It was me.
He got dragged through.
He got dragged through a prior one where he was dragged through.
300 feet attached to a car.
To a car.
So now, like, that career is almost like a PTSD situation where he's like, oh, not again.
Like, I can see that being a snake.
It's not even that.
It's a lawful activity for law enforcement.
It is common.
You'll see videos of it all the time.
People will try running over cops with cars.
They get shot in the head and then that's it, because there is a line that when you cross it, it's all, it it's all, bets are off, and and you know this guy, you know I, I know the report is that he'd been drugged once I.
I mean, even if I, if it was me right now and I hadn't been, i'd have, i'd have magged up too, because these people like you've got to think there, like let's talk about the criminality aspect of what she's doing.
You've got attempted vehicular homicide.
You've got aiding and abetting criminals, right?
You've got obstruction of justice.
And amongst a myriad of other things, not to mention half of these actions are coordinated artificially through NGOs and power structures that be on the left.
I think they both do it.
I'm going to be honest, I have to push back.
I'm not saying that that doesn't happen.
I think both sides are doing that.
I think there's an agenda on the right to appeal to the base and do things that are within the reasonable...
Oh, sure.
I think we all agree on that.
But this is...
Yeah, but that's what we voted for him for.
Well, I didn't...
It's not just an appeal to the base.
It is the fundamental will of the voting base.
I agree with you, though.
Hold on one second.
I don't mean to stomp on you.
I agree with you on the point that one of the issues that I voted for was the illegal immigration and going after specifically the ones that I was like, crap, these guys are criminals.
We shouldn't have them.
The problem is, like I said, the system that they set in place to actually go after the illegals is not working because they set a quota and it's the Wild West and it's creating chaos.
The situations where they literally grab the people who are actual citizens and they just look Mexican, I'm like, for real, dude?
You guys couldn't just do your homework and ask for an ID or something?
Well, that's the thing.
It's a whole argument.
The problem is the state's hand them IDs.
The state's issue IDs without them, you know, they issued them social security cards and all these types of things.
And frankly, I would say this for ICE, I would send in the military.
I would send in the entire freaking military and grab every, because here's the thing, here's what we don't wanna talk about.
Everybody talks about, we're just getting the bad ones.
First of all, if you step crossed over onto our country illegally, you are guilty of a federal crime.
You are a felon.
Right?
Unlawful entry is a crime in and of itself.
And so these people, there is no innocent party.
I mean, maybe kids who were born after the fact.
And yeah, that sucks, but there is an aspect of when your parents are retarded and do something stupid like this, there is gonna be some level of consequence that you inadvertently have to bear.
I think there's a generalization.
I can be center and conservative and lean right.
And then sometimes I have more maybe left ideology.
I think it's easy to throw blanket statements when there's also nuances in these situations that we don't account for.
And if you just look at it, there's no possible human way that we'd ever...
I came to the conclusion there's no possible way.
The damage is already done.
There's no way that we could go and take all 20 million people out.
They're already ingrained.
It already happened.
So what I'm saying is just from a macro level is like, look, the damage is done.
Let's not add more fuel to the fire.
Let's try to figure out a way in which we can do it together.
I understand how you're moderate in that sense.
But me, I'm done compromising with these people.
Here's my goal.
If you break our laws, if you break our lawlessness, and are a negative on our tax structure and take all our tax money, I want you to be gone.
And if you can't be gone, I want you to be hiding in a corner until we can get you gone for one reason.
It's like if there is one problem with our government, it is the government's inability to put us and our well being first.
Money for Israel, not for us.
Money to drop billions of dollars in Africa to these tribes for different aid purposes when we have homeless people here in America.
It's our country refuses to put us first.
And this is one of the, and like I said, I am so critical of Trump.
This is one of the only things that I am willing to even give him some level of props for because it is America first.
To restore balance back to our country.
Here's the last thing I'll make in conclusion.
I see where you're going and I know there's a large demographic of the population that's going to sit there and be like okay, that's the way that it should be.
America first.
We're always there's always agree to disagree, um.
But like, all i'm just saying is it, are you, are you just gonna evict somebody?
Or just because they look Mexican, and just go after them?
Like i'm just saying, you gotta have, I want them all gone, but I want them all all gone over 10 years.
I want a program that's sustainable so that we can actually get people out of here and we can't have, you know, the polar opposite scenario reversed on us in four years again.
So like that, that's my position.
I I appreciate your position.
New Grouper.
I understand it.
I appreciate Tim's position as well.
I understand it.
Ultimately, I'm tired.
I think this is a good point to end the show.
It is.
We did a good job tonight.
Thank you for coming on and great for calling.
Really appreciate it.
Always phenomenal.
It's always fun, boys.
Take it easy.
Thanks for tuning in, man.
Really appreciate you taking the time.
Well, nice.
We're gassed.
I gotta end the call.
I guess we're all right.
You have to end it.
I got it.
And then go to the top left there.
Top left?
To the little calls thing.
And then end show.
I see.
Okay.
Confirm and end show.
Alright, guys.
Alright, so no more calls, no more interviews, no more pontificating.
We're done for tonight.
We just want to reiterate, if you're still on here and if you all are interested in us and want to support us, just go to the Gray Area Talks YouTuber Rumble page.
Go subscribe.
You can go check it out.
It's free.
Isn't it kind of fun, though, sometimes when, like, You know, you don't always have to agree on everything, and you just, like, find the overlaps.
And, like, look, there's things that I'll be like, alright, you know, New Gripper just called in, and I'm like, I can't subscribe to that.
Lauren called in, and I'm like, that's a good idea.
And then Suleiman says something and I'm like, eh, I can't really get behind that.
But it's not something that I'm sitting here being like, I have to shove.
The point is to have the discussion.
Because we don't have the discussion and we make value judgments based on not understanding people's positions.
And if you disagree with someone, even if you disagree with them vehemently, that's cool.
Right.
It's just having the conversation and getting it out there so that doesn't begin to fester and become poisonous.
And you start having kind of like, I know you coke for two days and you're looking through the window slits trying to find the assassins.
If one thing has taught me this year in general and just in society as I just take a step back and look at everything, just extreme methods never work out in the long run.
You can go ahead and do whatever action and say like, alright, look, this is what we gotta do, this happened, this situation, and let's lock and load and just make it.
Well, it's accelerationism.
Yeah, and the thing is, is the other side has done that at one point, and it breaks something, people get angry, and it doesn't work.
And then it goes back and forth, and it becomes a game of ping pong.
So you know what's going to happen in midterms, bro?
This stuff, and ICE, and all that, it's going to get the swamp.
You're going to get more Mamdanis, you're going to get more people.
He'll be mayor of every city soon.
And there's no, you've got to think about, like, Trump.
That's not what I want.
You got to think about Trump now had, I would have never thought he said this in a million years.
He's like, look, we might lose the midterms and they'll impeach me.
Like, he wouldn't be saying that if he wasn't actually genuinely afraid of a blue wave coming.
And we track these stories as they develop.
We track the wars.
We track the political developments back here at home and abroad.
This is what we do on The Gray Area.
Yes, it is.
And phenomenal show.
Thank you for being with us tonight.
Thank you guys.
Thank you.
God bless and good night.
Peace.
Modern life has left us out of balance.
Long ago it was once said: Certain remedies could grant a man the vitality of a horse.
For over 6 ,000 years these natural remedies have been harvested and tested by generations.
Why create complex formulas when nature's roots are still in our hands?
Try PrimalCore.
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