Dax Shepard recounts a blind date with Matthew McConaughey, where the actor picked him up in a white Lincoln Navigator and treated him to steak at Domingo's. They discuss movie bombs, noting that films like Idiocracy failed commercially despite critical acclaim, while Top Gun: Maverick proved nostalgia can revive cinema. Shepard details his upbringing with a dancer mother who out-earned him, his dyslexia aiding auditory retention, and a 2009 altercation near Chateau Marmont that ended when his wife warned him his aggression felt unsafe. Ultimately, he reveals how fatherhood filled the void left by addiction and status obsession, teaching his daughters resilience through motorcycle riding and emphasizing empathy over political division. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Austin Show Embarrassment00:15:08
When we met, you were with McConneck.
Were you as excited to meet him as I was?
I don't really know him, but I was in Austin, and then you and I are DMing.
And then lo and behold, you're performing while I'm in Austin.
So then I hit you up and I'm like, I want to come see your show.
You're like, great, how many tickets?
I'm like, bro, I think it's just me.
You're like, I was so embarrassed.
But then I don't know why.
I was like, I'm going to fucking ask Matthew McConnell.
He lives in Austin.
And I invite him to your show.
He doesn't know what I'm inviting him to.
And it was basically a blind date with McConaughey.
But then he was like, where are you staying?
You're at the Four Seasons.
I'll be there seven o'clock, pick you up.
I'll be in like a navigator look for me.
So I'm like, now he's picking me up.
I come down into the lobby of the four seasons and I walk out and sure enough, there's a white Lincoln navigator and he's outside laying against Carl.
He's talking about who's coming through here.
Okay, we go swordy wig coming up.
We got the bombs here.
He's holding core.
Totally living up to my dream of what he is.
We get in the car.
We're on the way there.
He goes, I'm excited to go here.
You know, I designed this array now.
We're going to.
I haven't been.
And I'm like, I don't know how it's been.
And we get there.
Now we're just watching stand-up.
We can't really talk.
So now we're just sitting next to each other.
We don't really know each other.
But he goes, you probably want to say hi to your buddy.
Should we go backstage?
You just start interviewing him.
What are your political aspirations?
So we're leaving there.
And I'm like, that was a lot of fun.
Also, we didn't really connect.
There was no magic moment.
It's a little bittersweet.
We're leaving.
We're walking in the car.
And all of a sudden he goes.
You do this really well.
You're a great interviewer, but this is something specifically I think you do really well.
Is you make the guests so comfortable when you ask the hard questions.
And the question was, what does it feel like when your movie bombs?
Yeah.
But the way you set it up was there's no, he wasn't defensive.
It was like genuine curiosity.
It wasn't like, I got you.
Well, I also can come from the place of I've had a ton of stinkers.
Dude, I've had some hot bombs.
I didn't want to bring it up.
Oh, that's good.
Or maybe that's what I did.
Oh, Dash Dash.
That's good.
How are we going to bring that up?
Let's start with your bombs.
Yeah, it's a very, very unique experience to travel around the country, go on talk shows, tell everybody about this movie, like basically tell the world, hey, I've put my heart into this thing.
And then Friday, you know, if that was a complete waste of time.
And then it's very public.
Like the people I've interviewed that I've related most to is people who've run for public office and then they lose the election.
And they got to walk around their city.
And everyone's like, oh, hey, wish it gone your way.
You're just, you feel like you're wearing a sign that says, I lost everywhere you go.
And by the way, no one gives a fuck.
No one knows.
No, no.
We'll move on.
If people see, if Americans see, I have a very specific example of how delusional I was.
I went on Conan O'Brien and I had to go on Monday after the movie always opened.
Pro tip, don't ever schedule that because you don't know how it's going to go.
The whole weekend.
And I'm like, oh my God, I'm never going to work again.
And then I'm like, and I got to go out Monday and act like this.
Everything's crazy for chips, which I had written and directed.
It was years of my life.
And so I went on to Conan and I had a shirt printed up that said number one comedy in America, which it was because there was no other comedies out there.
And so this was going to be my whole bit.
And I'm like leading Conan into saying like, so number one movie comedy in America.
But it wasn't number one, was it?
And I'm like, no, no, there was a couple.
There was a couple, there was four or five others before, you know, but I'm involved in this bit and I'm like feeling the reaction of the audience and they're not getting it.
And all of a sudden I realized like, oh, they don't know it bombed.
They just sell posters and commercials.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And now you just look like you're bragging.
Yes, yes.
Like, oh, they think I'm seriously celebrating this accomplishment.
So I had to turn at one point and I go, gang, the movie didn't do so hot.
Okay.
Okay.
It didn't perform.
And I had to let the audience in on what bit I was doing.
Did you feel them stop hating you at that moment?
It wasn't even that they ever hated me.
They were just confused because they, of course, didn't know it bombed.
And once I told them it bombed, then they loved it.
Like, why am I wearing this shirt acting like it was a big hit?
But I left that going like, oh, yeah, no one, ain't no one's thinking about you.
They're not thinking about your movie.
They're not reading the trades.
They don't know when you ate shit.
And I was, you know, I had to look up very often if a movie did well because I'm just, I'll be curious and I have no clue.
It'd be movies that were popular.
I'd be like, did I actually make money?
Did you ever do that?
Well, and also there are movies that we are all certain were huge hits and they absolutely weren't.
Like Shawshank Redemption.
We all have seen Shawshank Redemption.
That movie made $8 million.
Idiocracy.
Idiocracy made it.
Hundreds of thousands.
This is even millions.
What is that effect?
It's called where you Dunning Krueger.
Wait, is that what it is?
No, that's where dumb people talk the most.
Me?
Did he just tell me?
He's just saying you talk too much and duck.
That was fantastic.
That was like movies insulting.
Why'd you ask him that question?
You're good.
He deserves all the money.
I want to know about this effect, though.
What was the effect?
Strides.
Yeah, top stride effects.
Oh, the Mandela effects.
The Mandela effects.
Point is, we all remember idiocracy and we know about it now to be this incredible film, right?
And there's predicting the future.
And every time anything happens in an election, they're like, ah, idiocracy.
Look, they pointed it out.
And then at the time, you were actually part of this.
Yeah.
Not to harp on movies that didn't do that.
Oh, I'm happy to.
But this Mike Judge brilliant film that you're part of, it didn't do well.
But I think we remember it as this sensational success.
Yeah.
In fact, it only came out in, I want to say, like 600 theaters.
And that was because I think contractually, Mike Judge, he was guaranteed they had to release it in some amount of theaters.
But even when they released it, if you called like Fandago back then, sometimes it was listed as Untitled Mike Judge Project, which no one's ever tried to buy a ticket to Untitled Mike Judge.
Yeah, it wasn't even labeled correctly.
Mike Beavis and Butthead.
And even probably with similar trajectory, Office Space.
Yes.
Which that movie, again, we all have seen multiple times and it made 10 million bucks.
Shaw Shanks bombed?
Yeah, 8 million.
That's the one that throws me off.
The other ones I remember hearing about from word of mouth and being like, oh, that movie's good.
But Shawshank, I grew up, I was like eight when it came out, and I couldn't believe that didn't, that wasn't a hit.
Swingers.
Swingers I knew also.
I'm older than you guys, though, so I'm going to hit the wall on some of these.
No, Sharky's machine, right?
You guys remember Sharky.
Burt Rena Picker.
Shark Fight Club bombed at the bottom.
Wow, that blows my mind.
This is from IndieWire.com.
Yeah.
See, I used to be an encyclopedia about this because I am so obsessed with money.
It wasn't a bomb, but considering it was Pitt and Edward Norton and Fincher, I don't think it hit $100 million.
So I think it like what they thought it was going to be before.
What did it make?
It opened at $11 million, Tappy at $37 million at the US box office.
Yeah, that's a bummer.
Wow.
Fox spent $65 million on the film.
Sounds like a bomb.
It happens.
Do you think movies are done?
In the theater.
I had thought.
Oh, yeah, by the way, a movie out now.
Pick it.
It's not this past week.
No, I'm quite bullish on.
I would have thought that until I saw Maverick.
And then something interesting happened with Chip.
You all saw Maverick Top Gun 2.
I saw it three times at IMAX.
And I was like, oh, that's right.
We love this.
We love having fun.
We love action.
The stuff that maybe shouldn't work works so great.
Like she leaves the door open.
It's open.
You're like, get in there, Maverick.
That movie reminded us so much of how fun.
She was naughty when she did that.
Yeah.
That girl might be fun.
Jesus Dorothy.
Yeah.
That movie was so fun and I think reminded everyone of how fun it is to go to a movie that's fantastic.
That weirdly, Chips, like a month or two after that, my best friend was one of the producers.
He called me.
He's like, you got to go on Netflix.
Chips somehow is in the top 10 of movies streaming right now.
I'm like, that's so weird.
Why is that happening?
And then it just slowly climbed for like a month all the way up to two.
Wow.
He just kept calling me every day, like, you're not going to believe it.
We're at three.
Now, mind you, this is five years after the movie came out.
That's awesome.
And my only explanation is like, you saw Maverick.
You're like, that's right.
I like to fucking party.
I want some action.
I want comedy.
And then all of a sudden, that's what that movie was.
And it was sitting right there.
So it had a little second life.
And I think kind of driven by Maverick.
So your success on the pod.
I imagine people are going back and seeing all the things you're in as they get more invested in your life.
I wonder.
I don't know.
I don't know if that has an impact.
Like, I don't know if you're you wrote that movie, directed that movie.
Like, that's a, if there's a Dax movie I want to watch that Dax drove, that's the one.
Well, I do think if you do listen to the podcast and you watch that movie, you'd go, oh, it's all in there.
Same, I made another movie called Hit and Run with my wife.
A car chase movie.
This isn't going to work out.
Are you left-handed or right?
I'm ready.
Are you left with that?
I'm left.
Yeah.
See, we were if we were eating.
Do you want to?
No, but just this is going to be a thing.
Okay, whatever.
Also, what a boat you have.
What size is that?
Is that a 13?
He's really good.
Is that a 13?
I'm so buttered up.
I know he's going to destroy me.
Drop the hand.
What was the last one?
Okay, you win.
All right, go.
I can't remember what I was saying.
Oh, just yes.
You hit and run on your wife or something.
Yes, I did.
And both chips and hit and run have a lot of like emotional chat in them.
There's a lot of like, there's addiction, there's like vulnerability, all this shit that I think people that listen to the podcast like is in these action comedies.
So I think it is fun if you started maybe on the podcast and did find your way to those movies.
But I don't know.
Because it's a different genre and medium, I don't know if it transfers.
You could answer that as good as anyone.
I think IP works still.
Chips is IP.
Yeah.
Maverick's IP.
But Chips was not the IP we thought it was.
That's the big mistake we meaning.
There's still some nostalgia baked in.
There's a curiosity.
We thought so.
And no.
Well, if I learned a single lesson from that movie, it was while we're recruiting, because before you ever release the movie, you have all these test screenings and they just hand out flyers at malls.
Like, come see this movie.
Here's the title.
You don't know anything about it.
And people show up and they watch it.
And you have a rate, you know, how many flyers you handed out versus how many said yes.
And so for hit and run, the number was, we had a much higher conversion rate.
Chips, we are in a very low conversion rate.
And then when they would ask people, people were like, it's a movie about, it's about potato chips.
Like it was very literal to them.
It's like, I'm not going to see a movie about your test market.
I had no clue what those we had found out, like, yeah, 90 plus percent of the people had no idea about the TV show chips.
At that point, we should have just changed the movie title to like California Highway Patrol.
You would at least know it was a cop movie.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, that IP in our case probably wasn't as strong.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think that can work now, especially with if you're doing like the major box office thing.
I think people go out for Batman, they'll go out for Superman.
Maybe they'll go out for like Ghostbusters.
Yeah.
But the new movie that you don't really know anything about, but it could be an amazing story.
I think that those will probably be more successful streaming where like the barrier to entry.
Exactly.
Barrier to entry is the term I was going to use.
That's probably why Chips takes off on Netflix.
Somebody just texts their friend, hey, Chips is funny.
It's right there.
Yeah.
I don't got to go.
I don't go buy a ticket on Fancy.
Babysitter, put on clothes.
Or even if, like, if you're in the motorsports world, which my Instagram is mostly cars and motorcycles is my algorithm.
What else?
You're in there.
Theo Vaughn's in there.
I've discovered all these people through just that algorithm, right?
Like I fully discovered you on Instagram seeing clips of yours.
Zuckerberg, bro.
Shut up, Instagram.
Now it's just like different recaps on World War II that I never considered.
Is that what your feed is?
This is my Twitter feed.
I didn't see it this way.
That's a serious take.
Thanks, Dr. Carlson.
That's a serious take.
So, but so there are lines from those movies, chips, right?
Like, I fail everything in the police academy, but I'm great on a motorcycle.
And she says, Well, you can ride a motorcycle.
And I say, Yes, ma'am, like a motherfucker.
And if you're into motorcycles, that became a like a thing.
So, yeah, maybe someone saw that clip and then they went and checked out the movie.
I guess it can happen a lot of ways.
But I agree the like $60 million drama that you would have normally gone to see.
We have it.
The TV shows are so fucking good.
That's the thing.
The competition, like, I mean, yeah.
Guys, the life tour is coming to Minneapolis and Milwaukee, October 11th and 12th.
Then we got Denver, Cincinnati, Rama, Ontario, Salt Lake City, Reno, Nevada, San Jose, Portland, Oregon.
And then finally, we are closing it out in Honolulu, Hawaii.
TheatreSchultz.com for tickets.
Don't get by the scalpers.
Go get your tickets at dandruels.com.
Thank you guys so much, everybody who's come out to all the shows on this tour and who has already got tickets to these remaining dates and some cool announcements coming soon.
Yeah, we'll just say that.
Peace.
Also, guys, dates September 27th and 28th.
I'm in Greenville, South Carolina.
October 10th, I'm doing a one-nighter in Poughkeepsie.
And yeah, I need to buy tickets for this one because this will sell out.
I'm coming home.
And when I say home, I don't mean a place I grew up, I mean India.
And when I say India, I mean New Jersey.
October 17th through 19th, I'm going to be at the Stress Factory.
I promise you, those shows will stress.
If I'm selling out in fucking Timonium, Maryland, Jersey, you think you go waste time?
Hurry up and buy the tickets.
Go to Akasing.com for those.
Hello, everybody.
It's your dear friend Mark Gagnon coming to you from Schultz's chair because I'm going on the road.
Oh, yeah, baby.
I'm doing a couple One Nighters coming up in November, November 13th, Stanford, Connecticut.
I'm going to New York Comedy Club, one of the best clubs in the city.
They got to spell out in Stanford.
Come hang out with them, but it's kicking with everybody.
We're going to Soul Joel's in Potts Town, PA, like an hour from Philly.
Just come out, come hang.
Presidents and Stalin00:09:55
I'll be taking pictures with everyone.
We'll be talking after the show.
We'll be chopping it up, going through probably conspiracy theories and just, you know, current events.
So if you want to come hang, Soul Joel's Pots Town PA, come see him, sluts.
Yeah.
You know what you need to do?
Every time.
Love that.
Let's get back to the show.
And look what it took you to get back into the movie theater, Maverick where you had to get it.
It's got to be top crews in a jet.
And yeah, the remake, or not the remake, but the what's it called? Sequel.
The sequel to one of the most fun movies ever.
Although, have you any of you gone back to watch the original post Maverick?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, because my 11-year-old, I took her.
We saw it twice together.
And so I was like, well, shit, now we got to go back to the original.
We were watching the original.
I was like, it's very good.
It's not as good as I remember.
Maverick is much better.
Interesting.
I know that might be sacrilegious to people, but I think if you go back and you watch it, you're like, yeah, it's really good.
I like that there was a real bad guy in the first one.
Who was the real bad guy?
Russia.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like in this one, there's just this random flag.
You're not sure if it's the Middle East.
You're not sure the fucking fools or bajas.
Saber rattling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's cook up some Cold War.
Let's get a rattle.
Saber.
I want people leaving the scene or motivated to go to war.
Exactly.
That's what this country's making.
Everyone's too anti-war right now.
I hate this buggy.
And you need a boogeyman for him.
Get me excited.
I'm down with anybody's patriotism.
Like, I saw Invictus.
Oh, that's awesome.
This is the one about the South African rugby team starring Matt Damon.
Oh, right.
And it's Mandela.
And Mandela.
Yeah, Where he dies in prison?
Yeah, exactly.
In a fruitloom's t-shirt, he needs some silver soap top stuffing.
I'm balling, crying.
Me and my dad are watching this movie, and I'm like, I'm the biggest self-afreaking rugby fan.
I'm so excited.
So, anybody's patriotism outside of like 1940 Germany, I'm pretty about that.
I don't care about that.
That's all we want.
It's tough to get behind them.
I don't know.
What are the other bad ones?
Well, I know Pol Pot, like Rise to Fame, Cameron Rouge, you know, Cambodia.
Are these countries?
Cambodia, I've heard of it.
Cambodia.
Why?
Did they have a bad history?
Pol Pot.
There was an agrarian revolution, a communist revolution, and they killed anyone who was a professor.
You know, the killing fields is all about that.
So they killed all professors.
We could not, some made it out for sure, but they were rounding up any intellectuals, any business people.
What were they teaching?
Presumably, laissez-faire Adam Marx capitalism.
Gotta go.
Gotta get it.
Gotta go.
Yeah, Camp.
There's no room for Pol Pot AML.
Sounds like some Robert Barron bullshit to me.
Killing.
Stalin, you could get behind me to Stalin.
We wouldn't want that one.
Oh, yeah.
I'm just adding some things to the Nazi Germany.
What was Joseph doing?
What was he up to?
You know, they say that he killed, he that he has killed, he killed the most amount of people of anyone to ever live on planet Earth.
No, that's Leopold.
Hit me with that data.
Congo.
25 million people.
Yeah.
That was the most.
Stalin's estimates are between like 20 and 60 million.
That he personally killed or died under his watch because I know that 25 million famine.
Yeah.
Which he caused.
He also sent an insane amount of people out to Siberia.
He created the Gulag system.
He is a bad guy.
Yeah, he kind of flies under the radar.
Really?
Let's you know, Hitler wasn't that bad.
You know what I mean?
Think about it.
Yeah, yeah.
My rebrand for Hitler right now.
I got to stay off Twitter.
This isn't bad.
But Stalin's also.
He's also too handsome when he's young.
Here, that's Jaws.
This is a problem.
Let's see it.
Oh, no, that motherfucker could get it.
He created Telegram.
Yeah.
I didn't know he ever looked that good.
It's unreal.
He got this Palestinian flag on.
I mean, this guy, there's no way you created this.
He's like a Timothy Chalamain.
He really is.
1930s.
Yeah.
One of the greatest murderers ever to live.
Yeah, gorgeous.
Well, some of these murders are very attractive, like Ted Bundy.
Yeah, Ted Bundy was kind of a piece.
I didn't see it with Ted Bundy, to be honest with you.
I see it with Stalin.
I see it with Stalin.
I get it.
He wasn't your type.
Yeah, yeah, Ted Bundy down my lane.
Who is good in history?
Can we go over that?
I could be wooed.
I guess.
Dax.
Oh, we've had a lot of good fun.
Give me top three good.
Just leaders or scientists.
No, they have to be leaders because leaders are going to make the decisions.
Teddy Roosevelt.
Teddy.
Yeah.
Took the bullet.
Uh-huh.
Teddy.
Sickly boy.
Got strong on a ranch, came back and reinvented himself, finished the Panama Canal.
It was impossible to do.
Kind of few people died in that one, right?
Thousands of people died.
Yeah, like America stalled Americans.
No, yeah, yeah.
Everyone took a run at that and everyone quit.
And they just like, we're finishing this thing.
I don't care how many Americans have to die of yield fever.
Oh, was it Americans that died or the Panamanians?
Well, first, there was I happen to have read the Path Between Two C's, the McCullough book about this.
Okay.
First was the guy who dug the Suez Canal.
He, everyone, he was everyone's favorite.
He, you know, he linked the East and Europe.
And so.
So he's the best digger in the world.
Yes.
And I'm like, we're going to send him over there.
Don't use that term.
Diggers.
Jesus Christ.
What happened?
Digging.
He's good.
Oh, gosh.
What are you doing right now?
I'm getting terrified.
This is, I inoculate myself to your canceling.
I wasn't a part of that conversation.
I was spraying Nick Red.
What was that?
Nick Grant.
Okay, go, go, go.
Getting yourself a breath or loser?
I was like, this guy is about to write me.
That's crazy.
I think that I think the dude was French.
Anyways, there was like a corporation that was formed in Europe, tons of investors.
They send the guy over.
Everyone drops dead of yellow fever and typhoid fever and all this.
They can't do it.
The Atlantic and the Pacific are at two different heights.
They got to go through all this land in South America.
It's a disaster.
People die.
They pull out.
It gets resurrected by someone else.
And then ultimately, Teddy Roosevelt was like, we're going to finish this thing.
And it accomplished that.
It's like the most harrowing project maybe we've done.
So him, I would do two more, but I think Martin Luther King Jr.
No.
Who else?
More than a leader.
Martin Luther King.
We like that a lot, Jr.
Yeah, but he's not in power.
I'm talking about like you're in positions of power.
Oh, like actual politicians.
What about Lincoln?
Porce Abe Lincoln.
You know, one that doesn't get a lot of credit, and this comes from having read a book about him too, is Ulysses S. Grant.
I heard this.
I heard history kind of did him in a disservice.
Well, he was an interesting dude because he was at the same time an absolute idiot and a genius.
So like he had fallen for every get-rich quick scheme.
He was like a terrible businessman.
He had been great in maybe the Mexican-American War or something.
And then just had come home and lost a bunch of money.
And he was kind of a loser.
And then he gets called back up to do this.
And he has a great genius for military operations.
But I think that the thing we all think of Abraham Lincoln, of course, as we should, but really Reformation was like the period that was so untenable.
So few people could have kept the country together post-Civil War.
And he just did an impossible job of doing that.
And yeah, he probably doesn't get enough credit.
But then he left the White House and he again became insolvent and owed people money.
And he was supported by benefactors.
And yeah.
Well, is there no system for like presidents?
No public speaking system.
No, no, like you know how they for NFL players, they give you a little something when you're when you're retired.
Oh, like the opposite of assigned him bonus.
Is there no pension for presidents back then?
I don't know if there was back then because the Civil War was the first time, you know, the North started printing money.
We had a first central bank.
Like all this is new.
So I doubt there was a pen.
I don't even know that they paid presidents.
Yeah.
I'm not sure.
They didn't have security, which is insane.
What do you mean?
They didn't have the Secret Service didn't come about until late in the game.
We had a ton of presidents shot before we were like, we should get some bros with guns around this person.
Interesting.
Yeah, 1958 federal law that provides lifetime benefits to former presidents.
Way past Grant.
Yeah.
58.
But he was like, people did love him, though.
So he was taken care of by a bunch of people, but he was embarrassed and humiliated regularly.
Yeah, most powerful man in the land.
And now you're.
Yeah.
Oh, God.
But if you want a guy to stand up on a boat while you're shooting at people and they're shooting at you and he's not going to sit down, he's going to keep yelling orders.
Grant's your guy.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
What does this mean?
Never done.
He just, every time he miraculously avoided getting shot when everyone else on the boat shot around him, he just was always at the front lines.
He was nuts and fearless.
At that time, wait a minute.
At that time, if you were the head military commander, it was your responsibility to be at the front of the boat.
No, no, most of them weren't, but his unique gift was like he was a guy who led by example and he convinced the guys around him.
He did not have the best strategy, but he had the kind of relentless, I'll go first, follow me.
He was an infectious leader.
He was the real dude.
Okay.
And then what about Sherman?
I wish I knew more about Sherman.
When he invaded Africa with tanks, well, I know Jerry.
Oh, that's tall.
Oh, to come to Sherman.
During the Civil War as well, where he was.
Oh, I'm thinking of the Sherman tank.
Oh, yeah.
Is that named after him?
Sherman Tank Strategy00:10:54
I don't know.
I have no idea.
Anyway, I've exceeded my historical knowledge, Monterey.
Are you a big history guy?
Accidentally, I have it's this all works backwards from I'm an insomniac.
And over the many years of trying to figure out how to fall asleep, what I have figured out is a book on tape for me is ideal, but the book has to be boring enough.
Like I tried Keith Richards' autobiography.
And you were up in the days.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
It's like, oh, I will stay up the next six days until this is done.
So for me, these like dense historical books are perfect because I'm pretty interested in it, but then they lose me.
The fucking Path Between Two C's, you guys, it's a thousand pages of damn or of construction and you know, pylons and the bridge, this, the Brooklyn Bridge book, same thing, McCullough.
Yeah.
You know, you're talking, there's chapters and chapters about them being on the screen.
Oh, is that when you got into that Carlin history podcast?
I forget what it's called.
Oh my God.
Yes.
Hardcore.
Yeah.
I've heard him talk about that.
That motherfucker goes deep.
He'll do nine, 10 hours.
Anything.
But your retention is pretty impressive.
Well, thank you.
I credit dyslexia for that.
How so?
Because when I was a kid, I didn't learn to read until like fifth grade.
I was in the learning disabled room with the other guy with the other gang.
And I'm going to be delicate about who I was.
Well, there's, I was, I was one of a few people not wearing a helmet, and it was very confusing to me because I was like, on the playground, I seem kind of smart.
I'm chatting with dudes and I'm holding my own, but I get in this classroom.
They're writing on the chalkboard.
And I'm like, I don't know what's going on.
And I had five years of that.
So the only thing I picked up was what I heard the teacher say.
Like, if I was going to remember anything, it was going to have to come orally.
And so I think I do have a pretty high retention for things I hear.
I've noticed this quality in great interviewers and successful podcasters.
Rogan also has incredible retention.
He does.
Read something once or hears something once, and it's locked in forever.
And I imagine if you're talking to hundreds of people and you need to call on random pieces of information from your life or things you've read or books, the more that you can actually call on, the more advantageous it's going to be in those situations.
Did you have any learning disability growing up?
Probably.
Probably.
Yeah.
You didn't do so hot in school or how did you do that?
No, I did learn.
Oh my God.
I learned this about you today that you went to UCSB.
Yeah.
That seems totally out of the realm of what I would have guessed.
Yeah, what would you guess?
Well, I would have thought on East Coast.
You're very New York, too.
You grew up here, born and raised here.
Yeah.
Parents owned a dance studio.
Dance studio.
Mom was a ballroom dancer.
Three-time U.S. ball and games.
Was she hot?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did your buddies?
This is like a Scottish 11.
Okay, so I know we don't need to say it, but I know what it means.
No need to offend anyone.
But I feel you.
I'm from Michigan, so I got to do a lot of transference, too.
When I'm trying to explain dudes at home, what I'm looking at in California, they don't understand.
I got to exceed the 10.
I got to go above 10.
The roads are paved with gold.
It's hard to explain.
What were we talking about?
Oh, your mom.
She was hot.
Did your buddies beautiful?
Did my boys want to smash?
No, she was older.
My mom was like, when I was born, maybe like 30.
Now, some of them still do, actually.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because I imagine she's in crazy shape.
You still want to order.
No, I'm still trying to get after it.
100%.
He's a milkman, and my mom had the milk.
Does that mean she was endowed?
What do you mean?
Well, every mammal has milk, but I'm wondering, did she have big breasts?
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Ducks.
My mom did.
My mom does still.
Still.
And did you hate?
I hated going out with my own.
Smell them.
I'm proud to say I don't know what they smell like.
But I did hate when I was like around 9, 10, and I'd go out with my mom and she'd wear like a tank top.
Oh, God.
And random dudes.
I'd see some other side of random dudes.
Like, they're super helpful.
And now they're chatting with my mom.
And I remember hating that.
Like, oh, God, look at this fucking bozo.
Now he's going to come over and say something.
Did you have that going on with you?
I had a lot of women flirt with my dad, I think.
Oh, really?
Is he just really charismatic and like nice?
Very charming.
He's a what?
Charming guy.
Oh, okay.
Very charming.
Charming guy.
Tall gentleman.
Yeah, like maybe six foot, six, one.
Okay.
But like, you're the most interesting person that he's ever spoken to.
Yeah.
Like immediately.
That's powerful.
Whatever you're doing, it is he's authentically curious about it, and you are the most interesting.
But you no doubt didn't mind that women were talking to your dad.
That's fine.
If you're a young boy, he's KNL.
Powerless.
What's his name?
Larry.
Larry, great name for him.
Larry Schultz.
Did you separate at the point you started noticing this?
And if so, do you think?
Well, yeah, I was on my probably second stepdad by this point.
Your mom must have been hot.
No, she's attractive.
Yeah, she's attractive.
He got to three.
Oh, she didn't stop there.
I know there's a four.
Then there's a dude currently trying to marry her, which is good for her because she's 70.
What do you think that she's still going?
Yeah.
What's her appeal?
No.
What do you think?
She's so good at how do you, how does she so good at gaming?
Well, she's a very cool woman.
She's a fucking gangster.
She like left my dad, was a single mom, had all these terrible husbands, built a business that was successful, built her own house.
She's like attractive and she's smart and she's a phenom, especially, you know, she was three months pregnant at her senior prom with my brother.
Wow.
You know, at 18 in the 70s.
And so the expectations for her versus what she went and did, she's like a very impressive human being.
So I get why guys have fallen in love with her, but I also think she suffered from something I see endlessly with like the very famous women I interview, which is like fucking good luck.
I feel terrible for him.
There's dudes are attracted to this shiny, incredible thing.
And then the second they're with that incredible, shiny thing, they're threatened by it and they want to destroy it.
And so like, whereas a dude gets famous and rich and his, his, his options just go like this.
Oh, women.
For women, it just goes like this.
Like, you know, I hope you find a dude that's confident enough to let you be shiny and be the breadwinner and not be an asshole and try to destroy you.
And I think my mother on her own level suffered from that.
I think guys were like, oh my God, this woman's a fucking men's self-worth is so much in career success.
It's like, I think if a woman was with a guy that was considered more beautiful than her, it would really fuck with her because her self-worth is often put in books.
You know what I mean?
Well, I think it just kind of operates like that.
Like, if my wife was making tons more money than me, I would feel a little threatened because I'd buy into that traditional model of what a man is for.
I had that for sure.
So my wife for many years made a lot more money than me.
And I think A, I grew up with a very powerful woman now.
But now it's like, everything's like, everything's fine now.
But the point is...
I'll tell you what happened, though.
I do think of myself.
Like, I was raised by a single woman.
Do you forward her the articles?
I will tell you the real on this.
I'll tell you the real on this.
He's like, nah, she sees it early.
So I'm totally fine with her being powerful.
I have no, I have no envy of her.
She's much more famous than me.
All that stuff doesn't bother me one bit.
But yeah, knowing she made more money than me, still, I would be like, I'm supposed to be making like I was, I'm very stuck in that.
Like, oh my God, I'm supposed to be making more money.
This is embarrassing.
Like, uh, you feel embarrassed by it.
Of course.
Meaning, I just couldn't shake where I like the water I grew up in.
I'm like, what other people will think of you or what she will think of you?
Not her.
Yeah, what other people will think.
What I think.
I'm supposed to be like that was I that was still one I had I couldn't shake.
What happened though is we had kids and at some point luckily I was like, oh, right.
This is for all of us.
Like fuck yeah.
Go make as much as you can because this is for these little girls now.
It's not even about me.
And I got over it before I started making a bunch of money.
All right, guys, let's take a break for a second.
We got some big ass games coming up this week.
Obviously, we have Vikings versus the Texans, Eagles versus the Saints, but most importantly, we have the Cowboys and the Giants.
Now, I know Akash likes to pretend like he no longer cares about the Cowboys because they've broken his heart.
For so many years, even though he got a bunch of fucking championships early in his life, how many does he need to get?
He's spoiled, if you really ask me.
The point is, Akash right now still cares about those Cowboys.
He doesn't want to admit it, but he still deeply cares.
And when the Giants jam it down their throats, it is going to make him suffer, which I'm sure Alex, myself, and any other native New Yorker that supports the Giants is going to be very, very, very excited about.
Andrew doesn't know.
I also recorded ads.
Hey, Andrew, I don't give a fuck if the Cowboys lose.
I didn't even know what time they played last week, to be honest with you.
They can suck my whole dick.
I still don't have a sports team.
I'm going to be honest, I'll probably root for the Cowboys if I happen to catch a game, but I ain't really looking for them.
Anyway, regardless of who you're rooting for, I hope it's the Giants.
You can bet on these games and any other upcoming NFL game on stake.
Now, this segment is brought to you by Stake, the leader in global betting and U.S. social casinos.
Bet on top sports and political events and use the promo code Flagrant for your welcome bonus.
Now, back to the show.
Do you think you had stronger views of what a man is supposed to be because you, again, like you didn't have your dad in your life?
And that's like, oh, this is what a man should be.
Oh, I'm the most cliche.
Like, here was the playbook to be a man where I grew up as like jump shit, drink too much, do too many drugs, try to fuck a lot, fight.
And I was like, yes, I'll do all of them.
Like, somebody tell me I'm a man.
Yeah.
So, yes, I think I was really susceptible to like whatever the dudes around me were doing.
I was going to show them, I'm doing this shit.
I can do all this.
What's the next thing we do to prove we're a man?
So, yeah.
I think, you know, because you didn't feel masculine or because I didn't have a dad at home going like, Tiger, you were great today.
You're on the you're en route to me.
You know, I'm proud of you.
And you're, and I'm modeling another man.
It's a lack of modeling.
Yeah, I got a couple of stepdads in the mix where it's like I certainly wasn't going to try to be what they were all about.
Proving Masculinity00:07:18
I had an older brother.
He was five years older than me.
He was helpful.
I did virtually anything he did.
He saved my life in sixth grade.
He's like, listen, you're getting a fucking, you're shaving your sides.
You're going to get bangs.
You're wearing skater clothes.
Go.
Gave me a full makeover.
Yeah.
And it worked.
Yeah.
Then I got to junior high and I was like, okay, I got this.
This is working now.
Yeah.
You got so I had him.
But yeah, I was just really quick to do anything that I thought was what you were supposed to do to be a man.
What was the dumbest one you did?
Oh my God.
Look at my hands.
I'm like missing knuckles.
I got fucking metal in my, you know, you were fighting with me.
I'm an addict.
Yeah.
Fighting and a full-blown addict, you know, crashing motorcycles.
You know.
What's your best win in a fight?
Was there, was there a there is a best.
This is the worst one.
Guys tell fight stories, but I'm going to do it.
My wife's like, this is so unattractive.
But I'll just tell you the one that I like the most, which is I, after high school, lived in downtown Detroit with three dudes.
And then I had moved to California.
And in my absence, I kept hearing about this dude, Reggie, who was hanging around the apartment building a lot.
And they were hanging out with Reggie and everything was cool.
And they had watched Reggie knock a few dudes out along the way.
So the legend was kind of brewing about Reggie.
Well, then Reggie stole Ife's bike from upstairs.
That was like strike number one.
Then Reggie stole my friend Aaron's wallet out of the apartment.
He started stealing a lot of shit.
So I came home for Christmas.
And so all my friends are gathered at this old apartment.
And fucking Reggie walks through the door.
He's, and I'm like, it's, I got to tell this dude he can't be here anymore.
And none of the other guys are going to tell him.
And it's funny because it was a round table just like this.
I'm sitting on the couch.
He walks through the door.
I step over this round table and I walk out and I go, Reggie, you can't be in here.
He goes, I can't be in here.
And I go, no, man, you got to go.
And as I'm saying, no, you got to go.
He fucking caught me.
I've never been hit by someone faster.
I just, I was chatting and then I had gone over this exact coffee table, landed with one arm down, and I looked over and my then-girlfriend's staring at me.
She just watched this guy knock me over a table.
And in my mind, I'm like, I want to go to bed right now.
I don't want to deal with any of this.
And I'm like, everyone's watching.
We're going.
And I got up and went over the fucking table.
And then I got him in a headlock.
And it was hockey punches for 45 seconds.
And then everyone had to pull me off.
And I just smoked Reggie.
And it was a real moment for me when my girlfriend was staring at me.
I don't even want to play this.
And my best friend's over here.
And I think that I only like that one because I did not want to go back at Reggie.
Did Reggie ever want some revenge?
No, He got what is even crazier, the element of the story that's even crazier is that all happens.
He gets thrown out.
Now, my best friend since I was 11, still my best friend.
We are fucking, he's the love of my life.
Like we are as close as two people.
Two daughters had a wife.
He was first, though.
He kind of lost his shit after that.
Mind you, we're all hammered.
And he was like, I can't fucking believe I let Reggie do that.
And he came unglued.
And then Reggie was hanging out downstairs like an hour later.
And then Aaron went downstairs.
And then there was a round two with Reggie and Aaron that I had to break up and it got a little scary.
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah.
Cause he was fighting from a broken heart at that point.
I gave him the courage.
Like he had somehow let me down.
It was a dangerous place to be on the other side of Aaron and that sitch.
So that's one.
This may be the record.
He still has that thing.
I heard at the end of a pod, you know, you'll do the whole recap.
He got into some guy on a plane.
Guy was being a dickhead, I think.
And then, what did you say to him?
He said, tell the story because it was, I thought it was awesome that you're kind of like Hollywood elite.
So for you to say this to a guy on a plane pre-TRT, as far as I know, was pretty crazy.
It wasn't pretty.
If you're talking about the thing that just happened, it was like a couple years ago.
You call the guy a fucking pussy, is basically.
Oh, yeah.
He said, You're not going to be able to do it.
He said, Well, you want to float in the airplane?
He said, something like, You're not going to do anything about it because you're a fucking pussy.
And then I think Monica, your co-host, poor Monica's been in this situation a few times.
My wife has been in this situation a few times.
It's definitely a side of myself.
I really have tried to, and have, for the most part, gotten in back in the claw in the cage, the closet.
My trigger is bullies.
Can't stand bullies.
If I'm witnessing someone bullying someone else, I just got to get in the mix.
And I don't know if I'm remembering that one, but this just happened.
This was more potentially career suicide, which is Amazon, who owns Wondery, who my New Deal is with.
Yeah.
They had asked me, would you come?
Well, Amazon asked me, would you come down to South by and do the panel for Roadhouse?
Yep.
And so I was like, yes, if I can interview Connor, which he's hard to get to.
Huge.
Yep.
So I kind of brokered this whole thing.
We do the panel.
That's its own very interesting experience because Connor's pretty hammered on stage.
And I'm in that position of like, I want to make jokes for the audience and I don't want to get fucking killed real time by Connor McGregor.
Talk about the high wire act of like kind of doing comedy and kind of there's an assassin next to you.
I'm like, Janine, I'm going to ask you this question.
Connor's going to answer, though, as we know.
And I'm like, oh, is that too much?
Check it in.
I had done that panel and then we're flying out.
Monica and I are in first class.
And the guy in front of us, it starts with his bags in front of his feet.
Everyone knows you can't have your bag in front of your feet in the front row.
There's no seat to touch.
And I'm like, this guy's acting like, you know, and the flight attendant is like, sir, can you put your bag up?
And he's like, I thought I might be able to get that past you.
And she's like, okay, could you put your bag up?
Okay, you're going to make me put my bag up.
And I'm just one row behind.
I'm like, oh my God, I hate this guy.
So he finally puts his bag up.
Then she's, would you like lunch?
What are the options?
Makes her read him the options.
And he goes, okay, a thigh.
So the chicken is a thigh.
Is that dark meat?
And I'm like, how long have you been eating chicken that you don't fucking know that the thigh is dark?
Everyone knows he's making her now say what dark meat.
So now I'm just like, I can't stand this guy.
None of this sounds that crazy.
Am I wrong?
No, the bag thing is a problem.
Yeah.
And you got to hear how you're going to be pretty normal.
Sure.
But then she goes, okay, we have a chicken thigh.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, you have a chicken thigh.
Yeah.
Is that white meat or dark meat?
It's a little let give your fucking, or do you want chicken or pasta?
Yeah, yeah.
Let her do the rest of it.
Yeah, you know.
And then I get up to go to the bathroom, and he is just at his seat.
And I stand up.
Clearly, I need to go past him to get to the bathroom.
Dark Meat Chicken Fight00:04:51
And now he's just not getting over.
Right.
So now at some point, I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to walk right through him.
So I just kind of walk right through him and I bump him with my shoulder.
He now knows that I don't like him.
I think that's clear.
I come back from the bathroom.
And now when I sit down, he is turned and he's staring at me through the little divide.
He's looking at me smiling and I just stare at him like just staring, staring, staring.
And he goes, you were great in that panel last night.
And I went, oh, oh, fuck, this guy's like high up at Amazon.
Why would he have been in this screening?
Oh my God, I'm fucked.
And then, and then Monica's like, immediately, like, oh my God, this guy's probably like, probably high up at Amazon.
And so now I'm a little panicked because I've been a real dick to him.
And then he turns around and he opens his computer.
And by luck, when he opened his computer, I could see his name like on the locked screen.
It said his full name.
I quickly wrote it on my phone.
And then I looked it up.
Thank God.
He was just a lawyer.
He was a lawyer of one of the actors in the movie.
And of course he was a lawyer.
Yeah.
So I don't think that's the story, but that was the most recent one where Monica's like, you don't have to police everyone.
Acting like an asshole and blood.
When's the last fight you got into?
Oh, like real big fight was probably 15 years ago.
Someone threw a guy threw a huge drink at the windshield of my car while Kristen and I were driving somewhere and we were really dressed up.
And then that was unacceptable.
He's famous at this point.
He's 2009.
Oh, the guy was screaming, I'm going to sue you as I went back to the car.
Like it was very clear what had happened.
Vipers could have took care of me.
I thought the windshield, I actually thought the windshield had shattered.
It was just all the ice.
But it was one of those situations.
The guy's crossing the street in front of Chateau Marmont.
And if you've been to LA, there's no crosswalk there.
It's like a twist in sunset.
And we're coming down the road.
And my lane is dead empty.
And the guy starts walking across.
Everything's fine.
He's going to have plenty of time.
But then he senses I'm not slowing down, which I don't need to.
He's got plenty of time.
So then he kind of steps back out into the road and is like this.
Like, I should be stopping.
He's not in a crosswalk or whatever.
So I don't slow down.
I just kind of go around.
As I go around, he chucked this huge drink at the windshield.
And I thought the windshield shattered.
So then it was just emergency brake was up and I was exiting the vehicle before it stopped.
And then it was in front of a newsstand.
There's like a ton of people watching.
They miss the whole drinks.
They just look up and I'm beating this guy up on the sidewalk out of nowhere.
And then he's screaming, I'm going to sue you as I go back to the car.
And basically all this behavior mostly ended because Kristen said the most profound thing to me, which is like, let it go.
No, that would have never worked.
Let it go.
Let it go.
That's not her song.
She's on.
It's a good reference.
You nailed it.
That's a 10.
No, she said, she goes, you think that people that you love feel safe because you'll protect them.
Like, that's what you think is happening.
Right.
And I said, yeah.
Like, you see your mom get beat up.
You see these things.
And like, yeah, my job is to, whoever I love, I'm going to protect.
And she said, I feel much more scared around you than I feel safe.
I feel like anything can happen.
And I don't like that.
Whoa.
And I was like, oh, that's bad.
That's not what I wanted to hear.
That's not what I thought.
It's the opposite of what I thought I was providing.
And I really had to go like, oh, this whole thing, this story you have that people love this about you, that you'll stick up for them just makes them feel scared all the time.
I was like, I gotta, I gotta end this.
So, there's been like some mild dust-ups, but also the police were involved in that one.
And I really did think I was gonna get sued for a bunch of money.
And then, luckily, what he had done was a felony, and what I had done was a misdemeanor.
Luckily, yeah, don't throw shit at moving cars in California.
That's that's a no-go.
If someone does throw something at your car, that you can beat the shit out of them.
And that'll be a misdemeanor.
So, don't throw shit at cars, but definitely respond with violence.
Exactly.
Moving Car Lawsuit00:09:41
Are you guys the only ones of your friends that are still married?
No, no, no.
We have a bunch of friends that are still, you know, camera friends, put it that way.
Yeah, I want to know what your fantasy is.
Just be honest with me, of what my do you think I'm like, we're hanging out with a ton of celebrities and Brad Jolena and whoever William Defoe's dragon.
Now I think I killed Ango with whoever William DeFoes dragged.
You were with McConaughey.
That was a rare and exciting one-off for both of us.
For all of us, I would hope.
Were you as excited to meet him as I was?
He's the best.
Oh my God.
So I had him on the show twice.
I had also met him one time at a camping event.
But briefly, I don't really know him, but I was in Austin.
I was there for work, and then I had a few days off.
And then you and I are DMing.
And I decide, well, I'm going to see where he's playing because you just done LA and I had missed it and I felt bad.
And then lo and behold, you're performing in you while I'm in Austin.
So then I hit you up and I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to be in Austin.
I want to come see your show.
You're like, great, how many tickets?
I'm like, bro, I think it's just me.
Like, I was so embarrassed to go.
Like, I think I'm going to be solo at your show.
But then I don't know why.
I was like, I'm going to fucking ask Matthew McConaughey.
He lives in Austin.
We got along great on the podcast.
So I kind of cold called McConaughey through emails through his publicist and our booker of the show.
And then we start emailing and I invite him to your show.
He doesn't know what I'm inviting him to.
And he sends me an email and it's got the green light logo.
He gave me a green light.
Like, let's do this.
Let's go to the show.
So it's basically a blind.
That's so awesome.
And it was basically a blind date with McConaughey, but this really funny thing happened, you know, really quickly.
So I had invited him, which is kind of like the alpha move.
I asked him out.
But then he was like, where are you staying?
I'm going pick you up.
What time?
I'll be at seven o'clock.
You're at four seasons.
I'll be there seven o'clock, pick you up.
I'll be in like a navigator look for me.
And I'm like, okay, really good impression.
Hold on.
I'll get better as I get into it.
So I'm like, oh, wow, he's now he's picking me up.
He's alphaing you now.
And then he goes, so what are these tickets?
What do you got set up?
Because, you know, we can do suede if you want.
And I'm like, look, whatever thing you want to do, like, if that sounds better than probably what I'm going to get, like, let's do that.
Right.
So he's like, okay, Greg, I'll pick you up.
So now he's got his own tickets for us.
It started with me having tickets.
And so it's such a dream come true.
I come down into the lobby of the four seasons and I walk out.
And sure enough, there's a white Lincoln Navigator and he's outside.
He's he's like, he's leaning against the car.
He's talking with valets, who's coming through here?
Okay.
We're already wakecona.
We got the mom's hair.
He's holding core.
Wow.
Sunning.
Total McConaughey.
Totally living up to my dream of what he is.
He's just so happy, so fucking comfortable in his own skin.
We get in the car.
Again, we don't know each other all that well.
We're on the way there.
And he goes, he goes, I'm excited to go here.
You know, I designed this arena.
We're going to built this place.
I put together some private equity money.
And we've got the state of Texas involved.
And we built this thing.
It's gorgeous.
I haven't been.
And I'm like, I had a baseball.
I'm like, I asked you out, but now you pick me up.
Now we're going to say, also, you designed the arena.
And he kept that.
What's so cool is he kept that quiet all the way to we are on the way there.
Like when I first said, if it was me, I'm like, you want to, I'd be like, yeah, let's go.
I designed that place.
Let's go to my arena.
Yeah, let's come to my.
Oh, yeah, it's at my arena.
I knew that because I designed the place.
Like, you would have heard about that long before you even met me.
So this is coming out on the car ride.
I'm like, my God, this guy fucking built this arena.
We get there.
The whole staff's so excited that we're there.
He has built this place.
He's never been.
So, you know, and we go up to this suite and he goes, he goes, oh, this is great.
This is great.
What's the number one problem when you're watching a game?
You're watching some kind of event, right?
Bar is about hair.
Action's up here.
So what do you want?
Look at this.
There's a fucking bar in the seats.
That was McConney's invention.
I'm like, this guy is so fucking cool.
He's one of the few people that guys and girls equally have a crush on for different reasons.
Yes.
Oh, so like, I want to just feel like he feels for a day.
I want to walk around.
I have no clue you guys weren't like besties.
Oh, no.
So you're going to like the end of this story that you don't know about, which is crazy.
Car ride there is fine.
It's like, it's good.
It's a good first date car ride.
But then, and this was tactically a blunder, which is now we're just watching standout.
We can't really talk.
Yeah.
So now we're just sitting next to each other.
We don't really know each other.
And we ended up having a great time.
You were great.
And then you were fucking what was a relief to me is like, he loved you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He loved you.
You got into a certain thing about talking to your wife, and we were both like, oh, that's exactly what it's like.
And so we had a really fun moment.
And then what was cool about him was, I know I need to go say hi to you.
It would be rude if I don't go say hi to you.
But also, I don't know his baseline, like how much he wants to be mobbed.
And so I'm like, I'm going to have to tell him at some point.
We got to stick around.
I got to go say hi to Andrew.
But he goes, you probably want to say hi to your buddy.
Should we go backstage?
And I'm like, oh my God, this guy's a mensch.
Like, he offered.
So I'm like, yeah.
So then we go down, we hang out with all you guys.
That's great.
You just start interviewing him.
Immediately.
Immediately.
What are your political aspirations?
That is exactly what happened.
Yeah, right.
All of a sudden, he's like on him talking about his political aspirations.
I'm like, I would have never asked that on a first date, but now I'm learning this because Schultz is a little bit more than a little bit more.
I'm so bad at small talk.
It's so painful.
I'm actually thinking, honestly, so I have to ask the questions I'm really curious about because then it comes across more authentic and pure to be.
And you are super curious if he'll run for office.
He mentioned it.
He was talking about it.
Yeah, we would actually, I think, as a population, love that.
I think Austin volunteered in a heartbeat.
Oh my God, yes.
And that'll pay off here.
You've always speeches at the beginning.
So anyway.
So we're doing that.
You're pretty much on a date with him now.
Now you have talked to him way more than I've talked to him.
Right?
And then a bunch of people come in, right?
Like, it's just held the room for you two because I was like, I don't want them to be.
I'm thinking I'm protecting you guys.
I'm like, okay, let's just hang for a little bit.
I don't want people to come.
I mean, you don't want him to have to take 55 photographs.
You don't have to take 55 photographs.
Whether that was an issue or not, who knows?
But once a bunch of people got in there, I thought, well, he was such, he was so cool.
He came, he hung for a while.
He was, he answered all your questions.
I was grilling him.
He was not 1987.
Is this legend or is this real?
You were like Larry King all of a sudden.
I love it.
So we're leaving there and I'm like, that was a lot of fun.
Also, we didn't really connect.
There was no magic moment.
We didn't like get into a good groove of a conversation.
So I'm like, it's a little bittersweet.
We're leaving.
We're walking in the car.
And all of a sudden he goes, you want to go steak?
And I go, fuck yes.
Let's get all the steaks.
Let's get so many steaks.
Also, there's nothing I'd like to do more than eat a fucking steak.
You made a steak and I'm like, oh, yeah, he didn't say, like, are you hungry?
Or it was like, we could eat if you're up for a steak.
Yeah.
So he's like, you want to go steak?
And I'm like, yes, let's fucking get a steak.
So we get in the car.
He's like, the mango, where should we go get a steak?
What's the best place right now?
I forget the name of the place.
It is phenomenal.
And Domingo's like, well, you got to go here.
They close at 10.30, whatever it was.
We had five minutes.
He goes, oh my, let's see if they he starts calling.
And I go, I think we'll probably be fine.
If you show up here, sure enough, we walk in.
The host almost goes into like anaphylactic shock.
He is being with McConaughey and Austin's like being with Mickey Mouse in Disneyland.
He is there, Mickey Mouse, right?
So they're all so excited.
He's there.
It's fun to watch.
And he's like, can we still eat?
And she's like, oh, yeah, anywhere you want to sit.
He's like, let's just sit back there.
We're walking.
He goes, he does, man.
You like ribeye?
I go, yeah, I love ribeye.
It's my favorite.
He goes, good.
You like skirt steak?
I go, yeah, I like skirt steak.
He goes, good, good.
You like, what was the vegetable?
He goes, you like salad?
Yeah, I love salad.
He goes, great.
So he's just ordered for us.
He goes, okay, here's what we're going to have.
And he threw down the whole order.
And I was like, yeah, I'm really on a date with him.
He just ordered for me.
I got to say whether I liked it.
I was not allowed to see a menu.
And then we sat down.
The food was incredible.
And we had like a full two-hour like fell in love.
Really?
Awesome.
Yeah, it was so much fun.
And yeah, it was kind of a perfect night.
Eight Sleep Mattress Offer00:03:12
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Now let's get back to the show.
All right, guys, let's take a break for a second.
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Do you get a second date?
Jack Black Name Drop00:10:36
So, what then paralleled this perfectly was then I also had Woody Harrelson on the show, and he and I got along really well, too.
And I had both their emails, so I sent the two of them an email saying, You guys are fucked.
I'm joining this.
Yeah, I am joining this.
Woody's awesome.
Whether you like it or not.
And they were both very receptive to it.
So, hopefully, they'll be.
I think Woody's maybe the most underrated actor in Hollywood in my entire lifetime.
He is so fucking good.
He's so different.
It's hard to do both at that level.
He's the original Walton Goggins.
Do you guys like Walton Goggins?
He's my new obsession.
Who's Walton Goggins?
Righteous Gemstones.
He's Uncle Baby Billy.
And then Fallout, he's the noseless cowboy.
Oh, he's phenomenal in Fallout.
He's phenomenal.
He's also even, and I say this as someone who worships Danny McBride.
He's even funnier than Danny McBride on Righteous Gemstones.
He was also in vice principals with Danny.
I always hear about this shop a lot.
He's at the same time the best Germanic and best comedian alive right now.
That Fallout show is phenomenal.
And look at him.
Yeah, he's so fucking interesting looking.
Yeah.
The mask.
Remember?
I do.
I do.
Maybe he'll tackle that.
Also, I follow him on Instagram and he's always like, he's got.
I can't pull off a flowy button up.
I don't know if you guys can, where you do a button up.
No chance.
And you got a button shut.
I'm sure you can pull it.
No, I cannot do it.
I don't know what's happening with my body type.
But you're too big for that.
Like, it's like just bragging.
It looks stupid if I'm in.
Because you're jacked.
Okay.
You have so many muscles.
Dude, your body's so sculpted and beautiful.
Oh, my God.
Tell me more about it.
I'm just saying.
What's your favorite part of me?
Probably.
Yeah, but the buys are pretty good too.
Well, listen, I'm too direct when you flirt.
Oh, sorry.
Okay.
I'm going to get better at that.
What are your political aspirations?
I didn't act.
Did I open with that?
Yes.
It was pretty quick.
It was a couple of like it was a couple of softballs that announced your candidacy here.
You drew the ice.
You broke the ice for their date.
Oh, yeah, maybe I did do that.
It was great because, again, I had all this anxiety about how he's going to do in this situation.
Again, I don't know what his comfort level is.
Does he want to be around a lot of people?
Does he not want to be?
I don't know.
I don't even know the guy.
I'm on a blind date with him.
How quick, like when you're on a blind date with a guy, how Like, how quickly will you share your sense of humor?
Are you like assessing them or are you just going?
This is very name-dropper-y, and I'm owning that, but it's really perfectly related to your question, which is, you know, I interview all these people and I get along with a ton of them really well.
You guys must deal with this.
You're like, well, who of these people am I going to maybe try to have a friendship with?
I also have two kids and I'm busy.
Like, who's got time for this or that?
But like, you're constantly meeting people.
You're like, yeah, I would love to be friends with this person.
So recently, Jack Black was on.
He and I got along so fucking well.
We're neighbors and we're DMing.
And then I'm like, I was asking him if he wants to get a hamburger, maybe, right?
So I asked him, You want to get a hamburger?
He's like, Yeah, let's get a hamburger.
So we decide where we're going to go.
And we have scheduled it like does sound less cool than steak.
Yeah, steak and salad is.
But he was saying hamburghes.
It's like a lot.
That's very Jack Black.
I got it.
Yeah.
He's like, let's get a classic hamburghese at Yucca's, a Mexican restaurant.
But it was like two weeks out.
We made this plan.
So I put it in my calendar.
And then day of, we're supposed to have lunch at noon, day of at probably 9 a.m.
I send him a DM on Instagram that just goes like, hey, confirming we're meeting at noon at Yucca's.
So noon comes along and I look and I have no response from him for like three hours.
And I'm like, I'm going up to Yucca's.
He's not going to be there.
Like I'm going to get stood up.
So I'm at Yucca's like 10 minutes early.
I feel awkward.
So I go into a liquor store and walk in circles for a while.
Then I come back out.
Then I'm like, okay, I can sit in front of Yucca's.
I feel like I'm dating.
Like I'm on a date with a woman, to be honest.
I'm like, I got to look cool when I walked away from grabbing a bottle of Boon's Farm.
I'll just start drinking again.
Jack Black was late for a hamburger.
Was I going to remain sober?
So, anyways, I go back out.
Now I'm sitting in front of Yucca's by myself and I'm feeling really stupid.
And I'm also thinking, okay, well, not only is he not coming, he will eventually read that DM in like three days, feel really guilty, and apologize.
What's going to be my move then?
I'm already planning that out, right?
And I decide in that moment, I'm going to say, I cried for an hour and a half.
And then I even go to like, my wife's going to ask, how was your lunch with Jack Black?
And I'm going to have to admit, I got stood up.
So I'm like already planning who I have to tell.
I got stood up to.
And all of a sudden, I feel someone grab my thing.
And it's Jack Black and he's in his like military hat.
He's like, let's go.
We're going over here.
And all of a sudden, we leave Yucca's and he takes me to another restaurant and we sit down there.
And I go, I thought you weren't going to show up.
He goes, I knew you weren't going to show up.
I told my wife when I was leaving, he's not going to show up.
And when he says, he sends me an apology text, I'm going to tell him too bad.
That was your one chance.
And I go, oh, I went even further.
I was making up excuses to people that knew I was having lunch with you.
And so our first 10 minutes was owning the fact that we were both certain we were going to get stood up and that we had crafted text messages to each other and other people we told.
I was like, this is awesome.
You're Jack Black and you're insecure and I'm should not be insecure.
And we're both terribly insecure.
We were going to get stood up on this date.
And now it's heaven.
That DM that morning, as you're telling me this story, I am going through my emotions.
And the day of, you're like, he's not going to show.
I know exactly what you're thinking.
He's Jack Black.
He's got things to do.
He's going to forget.
He probably, he's so artistic.
He probably is.
He's probably terrible with his schedule.
Yeah.
He wears tie-dye.
Those people aren't good at.
He's panting.
Of course, he's not going to meet why.
Why didn't he think you were going to show since you sent the message?
Well, that's what's adorable.
Is like, even Jack Black thinks he's going to get stood up.
We all think we're except for probably McConaughey.
McConaughey knew I was going to be there on two steaks.
I think that's part of what's so alluring about him is one thing that makes me feel better about being insecure.
There's been some very powerful people here, and I'll see things where I'm like, oh, they were being insecure.
And you realize everybody feels that.
And then you see a guy like Makane who just seems comfortable in his own skin.
Yeah.
And that's such a superpower that you're like, wow, that guy's fucking awesome.
I want to be like that guy.
Yes.
Yes.
It's very enviable.
Yeah.
His comfort level in his own skin.
Unbelievable.
It seems like, and this is not a judgment.
Like he enjoyed, he can enjoy it.
He has figured out how to enjoy that attention.
And what it really boils down to, too, is if you feel worthy of it or not.
That's the crux of it all.
Because I had this experience where I started therapy two and a half years ago for real.
I had done couples therapy, but I had not really had a real, like, I'm going to do this once a week and I'm going to do this for a while.
And that therapist said to me, because the deal with Spotify was very large, and I didn't, I wasn't really ready for that, which sounds weird to say, but I just was like, you shouldn't get this.
Yeah.
Someone's going to take this away.
You don't deserve this.
All these things.
Imposter syndrome.
Yeah.
Big time.
I have that.
Yeah.
And he said, look, in life, sometimes you will make a huge choice and that'll enact change and growth.
Or one can land on your lap and you can either grow into it or you will lose it.
And he's like, so you have to grow into this and you have to accept that this is real and that you deserve it or you will lose it.
And I was like, oh, that's so weird to think about.
But over the course of working with him for a year, I would have had a whole explanation for you as to why I don't want to take a picture with somebody at a restaurant.
And I have good points I could make about that.
And I would say, like, well, they don't even really want to meet me.
They just want a picture for their thing so they can get attention.
And I'm not terribly sympathetic to that.
You know, I had all these, they're logical.
Yeah.
That wasn't really what was going on.
Yeah.
Because as I started feeling more and more worthy of that attention and praise from strangers, lo and behold, I didn't mind the interaction as much.
I was like, yeah, I'm happy to do this.
I found myself offering.
My wife and I were on a flight and I said to the pilots, I was like, I don't know if you guys want to picture together.
Like, we're happy to do that.
And they were like, oh my God, you guys are the first people to ever offer.
And I was like, oh, I loved that.
Oh, it had nothing to do with those other things.
I just, when you came up to me and gave me attention and approval, I didn't think I deserved it.
Yeah.
I was like, I feel you retrofit all these justifications.
It just reminded me that I didn't deserve it when I don't like that feeling.
So I'd rather just not do it at all.
I think there's an advantage being a stand-up in these types of situations.
And I think being a podcaster.
Yes.
Because when you're a character and you're an actor, you know that people love that character.
They like Ross from Friends.
They want a picture with Ross.
They don't want the guy who's acting as Ross.
Yes.
And with Tom Cruise, like, yeah, he's so famous, but like, I'm really, I'm in love with Maverick.
Yes.
I don't really know anything about Tom Cruise.
Right.
And that can definitely curate this imposter syndrome, which, like, does anybody really like?
Nobody really knows me.
Why do they even want a picture with me?
Yeah.
When you're sharing your life as you do on the pod, and people feel really connected with it and they want to picture you.
Yeah.
It's me.
It is by definition.
The podcast has been what has allowed me to accept it.
Because even if people would come up to me and say, I love idiocracy, I'd go, that's Mike Judge's compliment.
Like, that movie is that movie, and you love it because I'm Mike Judge.
I got to be in it and I'm lucky, but it's not my parenthood.
That's not my compliment.
That's Jason Katum's compliment.
And I would always have whoever's compliment it was, but it never was mine.
Brad Pitt Imposter Syndrome00:07:20
I think, I think a lot of, I would imagine a lot of actors go through that specifically because they understand what it is to like write and direct a movie and how different that is to act in a movie.
And not to say that it's not, there aren't actors who are incredibly talented.
There are.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
But if you follow directors that you really care about and writers you really care about, you'll tend to find a trend where you really enjoy all the works.
If you just follow an actor, you'd be like, oh, I didn't really like that one as much.
Yeah.
In the best case scenario as an actor, you can not suck in things that suck.
That's the high watermark.
You're right.
100%.
That was Burt Reynolds' kind of defining quality.
And he ended up getting a chip on his shoulder at the height of his career, which was a bummer, which was, and he said, I have, I'm a Burt Reynolds super fan and I have his Playboy interview from like 79 where he has been the biggest movie star for eight of the last 10 years, almost unparalleled.
And he's mad he's never gotten nominated for an Oscar.
And he said, look, Dustin Hoffman's in this movie with this great script and this great director.
Smoking the Bandit was a 30-page outline.
Like what I did in that, and he's right.
And so on some level, he's right.
He could start with nothing.
He's like the star of this movie and deliver you the biggest movie of 1977.
That is, but you got to shut the fuck up about that.
You got to just enjoy being the biggest movie.
I've seen a trouble bird movie, and he's like, he's the coolest guy on the screen, but like he kind of is that in everything.
Bert or Bert.
Whatever I've seen.
I've seen Longest Yard.
I was, I didn't finish it.
I was rewatching Smoking the Bandit and Netflix literally took it off the next day.
How old are you?
I'm 40.
40.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm about to turn 50.
Smoking the Bandit was, I mean, that was the movie.
Yeah.
If you could grow up and drive a trans am around for, like, even in the movie, Sally Field asks him, what do you do?
And he goes, I show off.
That's his fucking job.
Yeah.
His job is to do donuts in a transam and embarrass the law enforcement trying to catch him.
This was a kid.
I was like, that's, that's what I want to do.
I want to be, I want to be the band.
But about getting recognized, I always say this about you.
You're the best I've seen at being comfortable being yourself.
I feel there's still like a pressure to like be as nice as possible and whatever.
And then I'm like, I will do that, but I don't want to be here too long because I feel like this is a lot of pressure on me.
He's from the Geico days, 2014, 2015.
I would look at him.
I'd be like, this guy's so fucking comfortable just being himself with these people.
And I've always admired that.
I think it's the stand-up.
It's like, if you like me for him, stand-up.
That's something that I'm proud of and I work hard on.
And at least know that you're appreciating a thing that I've created.
You have total ownership over.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do too, but I'm still like, hey, it's also, it's funny you'd say that too, because you're right.
Like you ask yourself, I remember watching comedians in cars getting coffee in Seinfeld's with Galfanakis.
And people are filming them.
And that's annoying.
Like there's a lot of, there's a lot of layers to it.
One is like, you don't have control.
Well, I'm someone who likes control.
And I also don't like if a dude's doing something and I've made it clear to that person, especially a dude, I don't like this and you're still doing it.
It triggers something for me that's like, well, you think you can dominate me or you can ignore what I'm saying.
So again, step down.
So there's that baggage.
Then there's just the, you don't have control.
Like, okay, five people want a picture.
That's fine.
But if the rest of the people in the restaurant just see someone getting their phone, they don't even fucking know who you are.
But now they want in.
And then there's a feeding frenzy.
Like I've seen this with my wife.
Well, that's just very uncomfortable and a tad bit scary and you've just lost control of your environment.
So that's all fine and dandy.
But Seinfeld says to Galfanakis, he's like, you're really upset about this.
He goes, but it happened and it's over.
And it was five minutes.
Like he really frames it in this way.
Clearly, a dude who's had a lot of experience getting comfortable with it.
And at the end of the day, I just had to ask myself, like, well, who do I admire when I see them deal with it?
And it's always the people that are that way.
I don't admire the guy that's got the boundaries and is good at the guy ever.
Because you lose, by the way, you feel bad when you're that way.
I have been rude to people, particularly once we had kids.
Like I, I still you can't take pictures of my kids and I don't like you film mode.
So that still gets a little triggery.
But at the end of the day, even if I tell them, you know, I'm nice.
Please delete the photo of my kid.
But then I just feel bad afterwards.
Like I'm feel bad.
They feel bad.
Everyone feels bad the whole time.
There's a loss for everybody.
Versus if I go out of my way and be nice, I actually walk away and I go like, yeah, yeah, I like myself better when I have that reaction.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The boundary thing, I'm not big enough.
How do you play it when you're at a social function and you see someone like a hero of yours that's way more like the super successful, you're like, holy shit, this guy's here.
Like, do you go up to him and say, what's up?
Like, specifically when you were like younger in Hollywood.
No, I never would do that.
In fact, I've been around Bill Murray three times.
He's, he and Letterman are my gods.
And I'm like, I don't ever want to have an interaction with him until he wants to have one with me.
It's not going to happen, but there are some people I was around and I waited long enough and then they did want to talk to me.
And that's just, I don't want the interaction where they're trying to get away from me.
I'd rather just look at him and not have that.
You guys have my ego.
Do you ever a moment where you met someone that you really admired and you're like, oh, fuck, I wish I didn't, that he's not who I looked up to or admired or never meet your heroes kind of moment.
That's a good question.
I would have to give a name at that point, probably.
I mean, it would just be, you know.
I can just say that like I had been around Brad Pitt a couple times.
Yeah.
And I would not say a word because I am so in love with Brad Pitt.
It's insane.
Yeah.
And then through a crazy course of events, he did talk to me at some point.
And I was like, oh, here we go.
I'm glad I, a really funny one was Stern.
Kimmel had a party for Howard Stern as he does, right?
He comes to LA and Kimmel always throws this great party.
And Chris and I were lucky enough to get invited to one of those.
And then, and then by luck had it that like two weeks later, I ended up being on Stern for the first time.
And he goes, yeah, I'm seeing that you were at this party Kimmel threw for me, but you didn't say hi.
And I go, well, yeah, I was like trying to be the hot girl at the party that's like ignoring you.
And hopefully you'd be intrigued and come start talking to me.
He goes like, well, that didn't work.
I didn't even know who you were.
I totally backfired.
I'm like, yeah, that's the risk it runs.
I probably could have met you, but I was like, I'll wait.
There's a, you know, Norm McDonald put out this book.
I think it was released maybe before he died or maybe it was after.
I'm not exactly sure.
But there was this excerpt in the book.
I'm pretty sure it was Norm's.
And he talked about like how lucky he was being famous.
It was an interesting perspective because you could look at a guy like Norm who's just so hilarious.
You could see him having a perspective on fame that is very like critical.
Misanthropic or something.
Morgan Morgan Legal Help00:03:19
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
And he was.
It wouldn't be punk rock enough.
Exactly.
But I thought it was great.
He goes, for the last 40 years, whatever it is, I got the best version of everyone I met.
Every person that came up to me was happy.
They were excited.
They were on their best behavior.
And like, you grew up in, I mean, you were from Detroit.
Like, you spent some time in LA.
Like people are not famous.
They treat you like shit.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
In the fucking way.
And the fact that when people approach you, there's a smile, there's excitement, and then a little picture that you give to them.
They walk away.
They're like, holy shit, I just, I think a lot of times, if we don't reflect on how lucky we are, that those are the majority of our social interactions as human beings, and only like 0.001% of people get to have that.
Yes.
Man, we're lucky, dude.
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Motorcycle Safety Lessons00:15:25
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Let's get back to the show.
Well, two things.
I read an interview with Owen Wilson again in Playboy, and he had a line in there.
It's real.
It's really easy articles for you.
It was.
It wasn't raunchy enough for me to masturbate to.
I had other material that I looked at for that, but then I really was there for the interviews.
They were the best ever.
But Owen was in an interview.
I've memorized like half of this interview in Playboy.
He said so many funny things.
But one of them was exactly that.
He said, the guy asked, Do you mind getting recognized?
And he goes, well, you know, you got to see that.
You're pretty much like where you go.
You're giving people like the greatest part of their day just by being there.
It's kind of cool, you know?
And I was like, oh man, that's great.
The question he answered that I think is so owing and funny is they said, He said, Do you have any tricks about getting out of speeding tickets?
And he goes, Yeah, what I try to do when I get pulled over is just start talking to the guy and make a couple jokes and be friendly.
And what you're really heading towards is that moment where he just looks up and goes, Look at us on the side of this road playing our roles in this crazy game called Life.
That's where he's trying to get to, is where you both just laugh at the comedy of this crazy game called life.
Oh my God.
He had also just read like a book on dog breeding, and he like recited half of this book.
In the interview?
Yes.
But I do want to ask half of it is about this dog breaking.
Was he promoting Marley and me or was he and me?
But great dig.
But back to the people treating you like shit.
This is a funny thing I have with my wife, which is we have our youngest daughter is my wife.
She's charisma on a thousand.
Everywhere she goes, everyone falls in love with her.
And I said, after I watched Delta go through life for about six years, I was laying in bed with Kristen and I was like, you have no fucking clue what life on planet Earth is like.
Wow.
You don't know.
Wait, wait, wait.
Because this was you growing up.
Everywhere you went, everyone is happy to see you.
You go to Starbucks.
They can't wait to ask you your order.
I'm like, you don't have any.
Now I know.
Now that I'm watching this little person just float through life with this butterfly of charisma, I'm now realizing you don't know what's happening in the real world.
Most people hate you upon seeing you and they don't want to help you and they don't want to be inconvenienced.
And that's life on planet Earth.
But she has no clue that that's part of it.
And when you said that, what was her reflection?
She just laughed.
That is so interesting.
Like the social part of life, which is probably the most anxiety-inducing to most people.
Yeah.
There are some people that can kind of float through that effortlessly.
McConaughey is one of them.
Yes.
For whatever reason, he is comfortable being McConaughey.
And Kristen, for her to get famous, wasn't some huge, like you see a lot of dudes, particularly dudes in Hollywood.
They weren't social butterflies in high school.
Women did not like them.
And now all of a sudden, they have all this access and people like them.
And then there's this distrust.
And then there's this weird misogyny that comes about.
It's like a cauldron of grossness.
Yeah.
Whereas Kristen was like, wait, everyone likes me now?
Yeah.
Everyone has always liked you.
This is how it should look.
Now there's just more people.
I think it was a very easy transition for her.
Dude, you're right about the misogyny that comes from it because it's that same imposter syndrome.
Yeah.
I don't deserve it.
Now they like me.
It can't be for me.
It must be for this success.
You don't really like me.
I resent you for liking this thing.
Yes.
Oh, man.
What a bad thing.
And it happens with billionaires.
By the way, this was our conversation with McConaughey.
I'm like, you're one of the guys that this has just been consistent.
It just has gotten bigger.
You're right.
Exactly.
The guys get a lot of money, especially like the tech guys.
They want to be in the social scene.
Yeah.
And the fact that people only are inviting them to things or even come to their parties because they have the big Hollywood mansion.
I know.
And they purposely got it for that reason.
And they resent that it's working.
But it doesn't fill the hole.
Dude.
Yeah.
Okay.
Let's talk about filling the hole.
Now that now you've gotten now that you've gotten success, like, is there a moment?
Well, you've always had a level of success for sure.
But now I think it's, at least through the success of the pod, has just.
Well, it's just what metric are you looking at?
Because really now it's just financial.
Probably in the past, I was more recognizable.
I was on a, you know, Parenthood for six years that ran non-stop.
Punk was really big.
Some of these movies were big.
So they were recognizably, I'm sure I was more recognizable seven years ago.
But the depth of connection you have with your let's your supporters and the armchairs.
And I think you're underplaying you.
That is a part of the zeitgeist.
Yeah.
Armchairs, expert on experts.
1,000.
I don't think, and I don't mean this in any disrespect.
Parents wasn't part of the Zeitgeist.
It was a hit show.
Well, you also weren't a 36-year-old woman in 2008.
When I think of the Zeitgeist, I don't think so.
Thank you.
And I concede to all that.
But basically, what I'm trying to say is, like, there's a metric for success that we all have.
Yeah.
Things that we want to achieve, and that maybe they will fill that void.
Maybe some people don't have a void, and there's just things they really enjoy doing.
Yeah.
Do you feel that you have, if you one, had, did you have a void?
And oh my God, yeah, I was a fucking addict.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
I've got like a manhole cover inside.
But do you think that are you at this point now where you're like, I don't need to do anything else?
And I feel accomplished and I have filled it all up.
Or do you, are you still fighting?
You get this deal.
You're like, what's the next one?
What's the next biggest guess?
No, but it wasn't the deals that gave me that.
Although they certainly play a role.
There's no question.
But kids are what do that for you.
Like what was so incredible about like, look, I had other movies that had failed before Chips, but like Chips was the most heartbreaking because I had spent so much time on it.
But I came home, I was on a car ride home and I was like really depressed.
And then I walked in the door and I was like, oh, yeah, these kids don't know that you even made a movie.
They don't give a fuck.
And you're still dad.
Being dad is the first identity I've put on that is real and substantive and permanent and cannot be taken from me and is not at the whimsy of the box office or what was happening.
Like this is a real identity.
I am the two girls' dads.
And that is my number one job.
And everything else can suck a dick.
I like it all, but it doesn't fucking matter.
Wow.
These kids are everything.
Yeah.
So they really filled a good chunk of the hole.
I have real purpose.
I actually care about some people more than myself, which was new.
It's an important thing.
And then the other stuff became what, and what's funny is like I'm a greedy pig.
I was obsessed with money.
I was hard to negotiate with.
I wanted the most as an actor.
I wanted the most as a director.
I wanted to make money.
And then I did not do the podcast to make money.
I did not think you could make money in a podcast.
I didn't know there was money in a podcast.
It's funny how life was.
I didn't think it would be big.
I thought I liked to talk to people and I liked being a guest on people's podcasts.
And I thought, well, why don't I do this for fun?
And then lo and behold, that's the thing.
Yeah.
What are you thinking happens when you start the podcast?
What do you think?
I remember Gordon actually saying.
Real quick, before we get into the pod, can we talk about the kids?
Really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So because you have a little girl.
And I was really fortunate.
Like my parents were awesome.
And like, I'm super grateful for that experience.
My dad was awesome.
Handsome and handsome, but like a really great dad who had a shit dad.
Yeah.
And I think he decided I'm not going to be a shit.
He was making up for.
And it worked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, okay, so, but this feeling that they are the deciding factor.
They are the arbiter of your happiness in a lot of ways, right?
Like it's not this random, oh, you post a video and if people watch it or if people like this interview, which has been most of your life, you're submitting yourself to the whims of the world.
The arbiter of your work.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
So now you have these two kids.
How much weight is on you for are you concerned about their success?
Do you just concern about loving them as they start to become human beings?
Are you trying to push them in certain directions you think will be beneficial?
Like, yeah, right now I'm just loving her, and that's the thing that I do, and it's the best in the world.
But there's gonna be a time where like she's gonna ask me questions, and I have these conversations with myself right now where I'm like, okay, is this the best answer for this?
Maybe I should talk to my friends and ask what, like, I'm like, am I equipped to solve life's problems?
Yeah, but isn't it so fun?
Like, generally, you're mulling over and ruminating on something that's really quite pointless.
You're like, yeah, what are my ratings?
What are these things?
Well, those questions are like, they're so real and important.
I love just thinking about them.
And there's, you know, I don't have the playbook.
My kids have a swimming pool in their backyard.
I don't know.
I didn't have a swimming pool.
I'm like, oh, is money going to fuck them up?
Will they be hungry?
Do you worry about that?
Well, where I've landed on all of it is like, in a weird way, I obsess about money so much.
So much of my life was about that.
I had a fantasy of what having it would feel like, what it would do for me, what it would heal.
Though that wasn't the case.
Maybe for other people, it is.
It wasn't the case for me.
I got to find that out.
I'm lucky enough to have found that out.
So, in some weird way, I feel like, well, maybe they'll be liberated from that.
Like, they don't have to go make money.
If the thing they do does make money, awesome.
If it doesn't, also, they're going to be okay.
What I care the most about, and by the way, you'll observe this, is I was in my backyard.
We had a patio, and there were these steel poles that held up an overhang, and they're whatever, seven feet tall.
And when Lincoln was about two, I'm just sitting out there doing whatever.
She starts trying to climb the pole, and she just did it over and over and over and over again for like an hour until she got to the top.
And I went, oh, she'll be good.
She's got it.
She genetically has got it.
If she wants something, she's going to fucking kill herself until she can do it.
And then I just took a breath.
I'm like, okay.
Belief.
Also, duh, her mom's a go-getter.
I'm a go-getter.
Odds are they're probably genetically hit the lottery in some level as far as being hungry and go-getter-ness.
Yeah.
Um, so now I'm just like, I just want them to catch fire for something.
I don't give a fuck what it is.
Yeah.
My ego wants them to be writers because I'm a writer and that's the shittiest job and the one I feel proudest about.
So like I want them to be writers, but I don't care, I don't care.
As long as they're like on fire for it and they're trying really hard at it, that's great.
And I kind of want them to be fucking losers and live at my house for the rest of my life.
No, no, don't ever go.
Don't go to college.
Yeah.
Flunk out and fucking live at my house for life.
Okay.
The relationship with you and your wife.
Yeah.
I imagine they are learning how to be treated and how to treat a guy through your relationship.
Yeah.
My parents set the expectation of like how I should treat a girl and how a girl should treat me.
Yes.
Yes.
I probably reflect on that through every certain situation I'm in, even in my marriage, right?
Yes.
Are you like cognizant of that?
Like in your treatment of one another in front of them?
If you guys ever get into a fight, are you concerned that that will be like normalized?
No, we do a thing.
This will trigger a lot of people.
I think on the far right, which is like, if we do get in a fight and we resolve it behind closed doors, which is what most couples do, all the kids saw was the fight part.
So they get good at knowing how to escalate things.
They don't see the resolution part.
So we were in a pretty good habit of like when they saw a dust up and then we resolved it, we would then tell them, hey, I said to mom, look, when you said this, it was me being eight years old.
I thought you were going to do this.
And then mom says, and we tell them how we resolve.
My wife sent me that clip.
I think it's fucking awesome.
Oh, fucking awesome.
I think for some people, for some reason, there's pushback on this.
There's pushback on a lot of stuff we do.
But yes, that seemed, I don't know.
People think kids don't need to see that or something.
I don't know what it is.
Teaching kids how to resolve is massive.
I didn't, for my friend, I never grew up knowing how to resolve anything.
No, of course not.
It's just like magic happened.
All of a sudden, it blew over, but you missed out on the whole.
Yeah, your parents just tell you it's okay.
Couples fight, and that's it.
But the thing you're saying about, I'm way more than I'm conscious of it with my wife.
I'm conscious of it with them, which is let's just assume the stereotype that girls married their dad is semi-true.
I certainly married my mom.
There's no question about it.
That's a big responsibility.
If they're going to go out and try to get me, then how am I treating them?
And so just right out of the gates, like, I take everything they say seriously.
I'm listening.
I am asking follow-up questions.
So if they meet a dude that's not listening to them or isn't, they're going to be like, what the fuck is this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like they just, they'll expect that whether they, you know, I don't yell at them.
I have fucking boundaries and I'm the disciplinarian, but I don't yell.
I don't, I don't get physical with them.
Like just these little things that like, this is what they expect from a dude for life.
Anyone falling short of that, they're going to be like, what the, what is this?
This isn't what I'm used to.
I even took it so far that I was like, okay, if I ride motorcycles and girls marry their dads, probably she'll date a dude that rides a motorcycle.
And then there's no way I can have her on the back of some 16-year-old's motorcycle.
And I'm like, the only way you inoculate someone from that is she's got to ride because no one who rides is ever riding on the back of a motorcycle.
So my girls have been riding motorcycles since they were five years old.
Wow.
That's far.
And I'm like, yeah, they ain't getting on back of some knuckleheads.
I'm not going to stop riding motorcycles.
I don't know if this helps.
And I heard it from a guy who was a great father, but it was even before he had kids.
Luther, my best friend from college.
We were talking, Indians, you grew up in an Indian household.
Radical Accountability Work00:15:08
So much conversation is, what are you going to be when you grow up?
And when they ask that, they mean, how are you going to be a doctor?
And I was joking around.
There's other options I've heard.
You can be an engineer.
Yeah, but all of those are disappointing.
Okay.
Like backup planners.
Doctor is.
Yeah, that's the thing.
And I was talking to him about, you know, what do you want your kid to be, blah, blah, blah.
And he's, he just said, honestly, all I want is for my kids to be good people.
And that was so simple, but blew my fucking mind that, oh, yeah, that's all that matters.
Yeah.
Just be good people.
So what's interesting is that's Kristen's position.
And it's a great one.
I also think they need, shit does hit the fan.
Yeah.
So like, and this, by the way, is what I love about raising kids together with her.
She has a completely different point of view than I do.
We have completely different experiences.
If one of our kids becomes an addict, she's not going to know what the fuck to do.
That's kind of my domain.
If, you know, they want to go to school and study musical theater, they go talk to mom.
That's what she did.
But that just lines up.
So I think they're getting a nice, I hope they're getting a nice dose of like, Chris and I are opposites and we somehow live in the same house.
And we have the same two kids and we took different routes to the gate here.
So I think that's kind of the fun of having a partner is like, yeah, she's making them very kind.
I'm also like, when you walk by a dude, look him straight in the eyes.
I see you.
I'm not looking away.
I'm not afraid.
Like, I'm here.
Know like they're getting that too and you know I, hopefully they're picking up both.
Yeah, they're gonna people up and sing about it outsiders the musical.
Do you get worried because you like, they're gonna grow up privileged and you became the person you are?
Through like all the things you've had to deal with?
Do you feel like uh, you need to like try to instill some of those things into them?
Yeah, like manufacture some um challenges and struggles?
Um yeah, i'm super aware of that and yes, we could make the world pretty easy for them if we wanted to use all the resources.
But like no, they go to a public school.
Oh really yeah, i'm like no no, you're gonna have to go.
I don't want you to only know how to talk to rich kids.
You gotta like, you gotta learn to talk to everybody.
Um, there's a lot of little things I do.
Yeah, make them do.
That's kind of completely unnecessary, but yeah, I want them.
I don't want them just to know how to talk to other kids with rich parents.
And yeah, get down with I. Mean, I think the thing that I um, I I do like most about myself is like I can get down with anybody.
I can get down, I can go with Bill Gates for a week to India and chat with that dude and be good.
And then I can sit at a gas station Detroit and talk to six dudes that are going to a club and I can do that.
And then I can talk to the hillbillies at drag racing.
So I like, I love that.
I want to be able to talk and connect with everybody and I want that for them.
I would not want them to miss out on how many routes you have to put them in those situations.
Yeah, develop that skill set.
Yeah, like we, i'm into cars.
Right, we'll go cruise Crenshaw on a sunday when it's hot and we'll post up in the Lincoln and I pull the girls bicycles out and they're just riding their bikes on Crenshaw and like we're the only white folks there with the cool car.
Yeah, i'm like that's right.
Start talking to people.
Let's get this going.
Did you read any books on the topic or anything that was like productive?
No, my wife read a ton of books though, and reported them back to me every time.
How awesome is that?
Thank god i'm not the only one.
I feel so guilty about this.
My wife learns everything.
She sits there, she pours through google searches and books, and then she just she's chat gpt for me.
Yeah, I just prompt her yeah, and then boom oh, but thank god okay, there's a really good.
I want to say it's, make an effort, read some books.
I got the books.
Well, and then I don't know if I could defend you.
Also, you just grew up with a great dad, so you just saw it every day, so you didn't really.
She probably feel like she keeps smiling when I play with her.
Yeah exactly, exactly what are we doing is working?
Yeah, you had a shit dad, so I don't know why you didn't read a book.
My mom was radical and mostly yeah, my parenting techniques are mostly just my mom which was like everything was on the table, you could talk about anything.
There's no like kid gloves.
There's no lying.
I'm a big fan of just not.
If you can get through it all without lying, what about?
What about a relationship?
Like, obviously you have a kid.
The relationship changes drastically, Drastically, yeah.
How did you guys manage that with first kid?
Speaking of these books, one of the books we got before our first kid arrived was Brain Rules for Babies.
And thank God, the first chapter you read is like, they tell you right, right in the first chapter.
I want to say the number, it's either like 68 or 70.
It says 70% of marriages get worse after kids.
We're like, ooh, okay.
That's a good heads up.
Yeah.
So I think going into it knowing like, no, no, it's going to get fucking worse.
It's going to get harder.
You're going to have less time for each other, less patience, less sleep.
You're going to become kind of like co-managers of these fucking kids.
And that's hard.
And we've had hard stretches.
I will say, though, they do get to an age.
And I think a lot of people don't make it through that part, but they life starts coming back in.
Like, oh, we can go on a three-day trip.
Yeah.
We can do this.
And it starts seeping back in.
But yeah, if I charted how hard it got, it was certainly peaked.
You know, when they're like six and four years old, forget it.
You're like, cool.
I live with this gal.
I think these are our kids.
We're doing this together.
But I can't imagine she wants to see me.
It's reality distorting.
Yes.
Because when you're with the kid, it's euphoric.
They laugh and they smile.
And then you and your wife are the happiest you've ever been in your life.
So you're like, yeah, we're happy.
Everything's good.
But then you guys aren't spending any time together, even though you're together.
Yeah.
So you feel like you're getting that same emotional diet satisfied, but you're not at all.
Like we actually had to like sit down and reflect on it.
We're like, what is different here?
We're spending tons of time together.
And then we're like, oh, no, we don't talk the same way we do.
Going out to dinner is much more difficult.
We're exhausted.
And we had to make a conscious effort to like pour back in a little, even if it's 30 minutes.
Also, the amount of compromise, I guess it depends.
I certainly know dads that are like, yeah, you decide everything.
I'll pay for everything.
Well, that's not the scenario in my life.
My wife's a gangster and she's going to have a lot of say in whatever.
And I'm very opinionated.
So I think even the kids and how we're going to raise them and making all these minute-to-minute decisions, that's just Kristen and I's nature.
Like we come from different points of view.
We generally have to compromise.
So it's just like another thing to compromise about, but it's now something you care way more about than you did about what restaurant you're going to.
Right.
So you're like, no, this is vital to me.
They have to be this way.
So yeah, it's a recipe for just a lot of stress and it gets rough.
Preparing for that is, I think, and like once you can view it through that lens, like doing anything exhausted is tough.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Like if somebody was like, hey, there's no kid, but you're going to be exhausted in your relationship for the next eight months.
You'd be like, okay, this is going to be a little harder.
Yes, exactly.
Or the next few years.
A few years.
Exactly.
But you guys are going to be your worst self for the next five years.
Good luck.
Just tell us that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What happens is that you're smacked in the face with it a few months in.
You're like, what the hell is going on?
Yes.
Being able to reflect for us, that was very helpful.
Like huge.
And at least you understand it.
And then when you can kind of pour back in, even if it's like tiny little bits of time, you, there's this like reminder of just why we got to the point where we're like, hey, we really want to bring life into this world.
Yeah.
Like this is pretty awesome.
Yeah.
Well, I, I, this is pathetic, but there are moments in that stretch where I would be at my sink brushing my teeth and I would force myself to look over at her brushing her teeth.
And I'd go, that's a real person right there.
That's a human being who needs love and is afraid and needs compassion and comforting.
Yeah, she's a real, she's not a fucking robot mom.
Nope.
As much as we're both now robot parents, I'm like, I, but I had to take like, I had to be thoughtful and go, that's a little girl over there who's in over her head.
Just like, I'm a little boy who's in over my head.
And okay, yeah.
Hi.
Hi.
This is hard, huh?
Yeah.
It's scary, right?
You're afraid you're doing a bad job.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've been with Chris in 17 years now.
Yeah.
What is the number one piece of advice you have to make it last?
Oh, man.
We were lucky enough that we started therapy like three months into dating.
Yeah.
This is not going to work.
We were explosive together at first.
And I will say now, having done it that way, it was like my previous relationship, which was long as well, it was nine years.
We went to couples therapy at the end.
And it's like taking your car to the shop.
And it's like, yeah, the trans is blown two cylinders around.
This is like, you should have fucking changed the oil knucklehead eight years ago.
And I will say, like, we went in, they were short.
We didn't do a ton of them, but the dude was like, here's what's happening.
You guys are stuck in this pattern.
He says this.
You always say this.
That triggers this.
Stop saying that and stop doing this.
It was really pragmatic.
It wasn't like, you know, ethereal.
We had to connect with our inner child.
It's like, stop saying this.
And when you say this.
And so I think luckily we broke a few patterns that would have destroyed us really early on.
That was helpful.
And then I would just credit for me AA, which is like in AA, I figured out how to assess what was going on with me in situations.
I don't know that I would have learned that had I not had to be in AA, which is like, there's one step in particular, which is crazy effective.
It's the fourth step.
And it's really good.
It's misleading.
First, all they ask you to do is like write a hundred people, write all the people you have resentments against.
And you're like, oh, that's fucking easy.
I hate that teacher.
I hate this person.
I hate, And then the next column, you have to say, what did that person threaten in your life?
Right.
And so you write what they threaten, my financial security, my status.
By the way, there's only like six things people threaten.
And then you look at this list and you hate 150 people and you realize what fear they're triggering.
It's three fucking fears.
Like if I have these three fears, my status, my social or my financial security, if I don't have those three fears, I don't have problems.
These 100 people aren't on this list.
And then the last column is like, well, what am I doing?
So the example I think they gave in the book, which is great, is like, I hate Bob from work.
Why?
What's Bob do?
He's constantly trying to get me fired.
What does that threaten?
My financial security.
What's my role in it?
Well, if I don't show up late, there's really nothing Bob can say to the boss.
And you're like, okay, great.
So now I know my three fears.
I also know what I'm doing that enables all that cycle to happen.
So that, just practicing that for years, when Chris and I would get in a fight, I at least knew enough to go like, that's interesting.
Whatever is going on right now, I know is not going on.
I know me good enough now.
One of these three things is really being threatened right now.
Give me five.
I just want to figure out which of those three things is happening.
And now I can come back into this and go like, yeah, I feel really emasculated when that happens.
And I'm worried about my status all the time.
And it's a shitty character defect of mine.
And I overreacted and, you know, go forward.
Character defects.
And usually that's all that's.
Yeah.
She's got her list of three things that she's constantly triggered over.
And so I think just like learning to pause fights and figure out what was actually happening with me, other than the dishwasher or the whatever thing you think it's about, going like, it's never ever about any of those things.
Yeah, it's about like these three core fears I have, and if I can figure out which one of it is, I can really um right-size it in my head.
Like, oh, this is an old thing.
This happened.
I had to apologize to my um, my, my, now, nine-year-old.
We're laying in bed.
She had given me a riddle the day before.
I had answered it.
Now we're laying in bed, and she tells me that I got the answer wrong.
And I'm like, no, honey, I said whatever.
I give the same answer to the riddle.
She's like, no, no, you said this.
And I'm like, that's not.
And now all of a sudden, I'm like, I'm in an actual power struggle with an eight-year-old in bed about whether I said this or that.
And then she got cranky and I got cranky.
And I was just kind of a dick.
I wouldn't let up about it.
I'm like, yeah, you got this one wrong.
I said that.
I'm like, there's no way I would say that.
I know math really well, whatever the thing was.
That night I go to bed.
I'm like, that was weird.
That's not how you talk to Delta.
And then the next morning, I came to her and I go, listen, I want to apologize about last night.
I overreacted.
You know, I was dyslexic in school.
I got sent to the learning disabled room.
I walk around with people thinking I'm stupid.
And if there's any moment where I look stupid, I overreact so bad.
And that was what happened last night.
I don't know whether I got the riddle right or not.
Who knows?
But that's what was going on.
I'm sorry that I was taking that out on you and my apologies.
And she goes, Oh, daddy, I'm so sorry you had to go to learning disabled room.
I was like, This is fantastic.
Back to like, you know, how do you handle these things?
Like when you get one right, you're like, oh, that's right.
That's what you do.
You just go on your shit.
And then they immediately meet you with compassion and understanding.
And it's great.
It's almost worth having to hear her say, Oh, daddy, I'm so sorry you had to go to learning this.
Like the radical accountability.
Yeah.
Like that, that work, I guess, from AA.
It's like, you are four.
I'm going to figure out what I can control, what I'm doing.
Well, because I can't live with my own.
You think I don't live with other people's mistakes.
I live with mine.
People have wronged me.
Tons of people have wronged me over the last 50 years.
I'm not in bed thinking about those.
I'm in bed thinking about shit I did in eighth grade.
Shit, I did in 12th grade.
Shit, I did a 24.
Like I have the laundry list in my head of things I fucked up.
So it's like, I can't live with the discomfort of like, if I've recognized I've done something wrong, I just got to go clean it up because I'm the one that's going to suffer from it.
The other person, Delta wouldn't have thought about that thing the next day, but I'll think about it.
Video Village Memories00:06:32
Yeah.
And so it's my own probably selfish, you know, preservation, but I can't live with a big pile of errors.
The forgiveness is for self.
A lot of people have said that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Value of forgiveness.
It's allowing you to relinquish these feelings.
Not simply letting that other person get over it.
And get away with another great saying from AA is: you know, resenting people is like drinking poison and hoping they die.
Yeah, you're the one.
Yeah.
You're the only one this thing's living inside of.
And it's like, what a victory to give this person you're already mad at that you're fucking cancering yourself up.
Yeah.
So yeah.
AAA.
I hope you guys all joined.
Can I ask a question really quick?
Yeah, sure.
I'm a huge armchair.
Big, big fan.
I find that hard to believe, but thank you.
No, I'm a huge fan.
Between day seven, Laurie Gottlieb, and like Anna Kendrick.
I probably listen to one of those every month.
Oh my God.
I love those episodes.
Thank you.
Is there an episode that people tell you that was like the most impactful to them that you hear the most often?
Yeah, day seven, certainly one of those.
That one's hard for me to receive that compliment, probably for obvious reasons.
Yeah.
But my mom, I interviewed my mom, and that's one that people constantly bring up.
Yeah.
Because she told her whole story completely shamefree and honestly, and it was awesome.
And there were even moments because my mom's super duper open and I we have great communication, but even something about putting the interviewer hat on, I found myself getting curious about things I had never asked her.
And then I got some kind of profound answers that blew me away.
Like one was which I had never thought to ask her.
I'm like, how could someone like you, who's so brave and confident, have been with someone like Greg who was beating you?
That seems so disjointed from my idea of who you are.
And she said, well, I had just gotten divorced from your dad.
I met Greg.
I got married too soon.
My family was already completely disappointed in me that the first marriage failed.
And I just thought, here I am again.
And the shame of admitting I failed a second time is worse than getting hit.
Wow.
And I was like, oh, whoa, fuck you.
Dude.
And shame.
Boy, talk about the thing that is the most powerful.
Like, I'll get my ass kicked instead of feeling the shame of failure.
Family and failure.
Yeah.
So that was radical.
I was like, oh, I get it.
I didn't even know I was curious, but yeah, I was.
I was like, how could you?
You're not my stereotype of someone who ends up in that situation.
It actually leads into something I wanted to ask earlier.
You are fantastic on the podcast.
I think oftentimes actors, the more we get to know them, the more we're like, dang, I'm not okay.
There's not really a lot going on.
It's kind of like you have a void internally.
They have a void that we all see that is their personality.
At what point?
And I remember I just re-listened to the episode with Gordon, and he said, as soon as he started the podcast, this is what you need to be doing.
At what point are you like, oh, this is what I, this is my lane?
Yeah.
And I'm being validated for who I am.
I want to know that whole, what are you going through as that whole thing is happening?
Like you're starting the pod, you're realizing it's big.
Oh, this is the moment.
This is what I've made.
Well, let me own one of my previous judgments of Joe Rogan, which was I remember him announcing he was never going to act again or host anything.
He was just going to do his podcast.
And I remember, because again, I'm insecure and I'm constantly thinking of what people think I'm failing or not failing.
I remember thinking, you're just not getting the roles you want.
Right.
I had that judgment of him.
And at some point in Armchair Expert, because there was a moment where I was on, I was a cast member of the ranch, Bless this Mess, and hosting Top Gear America and doing the podcast, which was way too much and was bonkers.
And I was really happiest doing the podcast.
And I think my ego was like, again, because I had made that judgment of Rogan, like, oh, if I quit acting, people are going to think I just failed out of it.
And at some point, I realized.
Leaving the ranch, nobody sees his failure.
I'm going to let you know that right now.
To be honest with you.
Thank you.
At some point, I was like, no, I like this thing more.
I don't really care whether it looks like I have been kicked out of show business or not.
And then also, I totally believe Rogan a thousand percent.
And not like I was ever saying it out loud that that was the case, but like, yeah, I, in my mind, I'm like, I owe that dude an amends.
Like, I was wrong.
Of course, he likes that more.
It's so much better.
But I did have one moment that was really kind of interesting, which is Adam Grant, this guy I've had on like four times.
He's a Wharton psychologist, he's a professor there, and he writes all these New York Times pieces and stuff.
He's like a popular intellectual.
I was telling him, you know, my whole story was, oh, chips failed.
I really didn't know what I was going to do.
I only wanted to write and direct, and that wasn't on the table anymore.
So then I started this just out of boredom.
And then my failure led to the greatest thing that happened to me.
And he said, I wonder if it's as separate as you think it is.
And I said, well, it's completely separate, acting and writing and directing in a podcast.
And he said, well, what was your favorite part of making TV shows and movies?
And I was like, Video Village.
Video Village is where the director sits and it's where the monitors are.
It's where you'll go and watch playback after a scene.
And it's just where all the actors and the creative people are gathered around these monitors and you're just shooting the shit.
And I go, if I'm being honest, my favorite thing of show business is fucking Video Village.
I can be on set for 12 hours at Video Village shooting the shit with other people that moved out of their little town to come here.
I love that.
And he goes, I think you just moved Video Village to your backyard because all the same people you wanted to talk to are now coming.
And now you don't have to do any of the other stuff.
Conservative Empathy Moments00:04:42
You just isolated the thing you actually like the most.
And now you're doing that part of it full time.
And I was like, wow, maybe that is what happened.
I wasn't calculating that or doing it intentionally, but it is kind of what happened.
It's funny you say Video Village because I also think part of your appeal, and again, I think we see you as Hollywood, like, I don't say elite as like a compliment, but like you're in that circle.
But to me, you're a guy who gets what most Americans are going through in a way that I think a lot of them pretend they do and do not.
And there's been times where you'll have very nuanced thoughts and you'll meet with resistance.
The Jonathan Vaness episode comes to mind where you are being empathetic to what conservatives are feeling about trans issues, even if you don't agree with them.
And I think that is your superpower to us as like regular people, I think.
Yeah.
How is that dealing with maybe, you know, I think we have this idea that you need to have these certain beliefs to be in Hollywood or to be accepted in that circle?
Yeah.
Is that tough for you to navigate?
Do you not care?
Well, I care.
I have my own opinions.
And if you're at dinner with me, you'll hear my opinions, political or otherwise.
But I have a much bigger mission with the podcast, which is I want young dudes to look at me and go, Oh, yeah, that guy rides wheelies on motorcycles and he talks about being molested and he talks about trauma and he talks about addiction and he's vulnerable.
That's the main thrust.
I don't care about my political opinions as much as I care about the dudes who've come up to me and been like, I went to a meeting because I listened to your show.
I've been sober 18 months.
My brother's talking to me again.
Like, those moments are insane.
To have someone come up to me and go, I agree, that politician's an asshole.
Fuck, great.
I am also like, my own pride is like, it's embarrassing to me that people are spouting off these opinions that half the country has.
Whatever opinion you're popping off with, guess what?
150 million people have that opinion.
It's not that fucking interesting or novel.
It's boring as fuck.
It's the most pedestrian thing you'll say all day.
Your take on pizza is more interesting.
Yeah.
Because it's probably more unique than 150 million people agree with you.
So it's like, A, it's fucking boring.
B, everyone already does it.
Yeah.
I remember Stern getting like a lot of criticism that he wasn't, you know, getting really political when it was being called for.
And he's like, it's okay to have a place you go that you don't have to hear that shit.
Yeah.
And for me, I made a commitment early on.
This isn't the place for that.
There's, and if you want that, guys, turn to any other fucking station.
You'll hear it.
Yeah.
Well, one thing you have is that there's a much smaller subsection, people who have empathy for the other side's opinions.
That is a very, that's not 150 million people.
I agree.
That's probably not 50 million.
The only political opinion I'm happy talking about in public is I do not believe half the country is bad.
I just don't believe that.
Forget what side I'm on.
I don't believe half the country's evil or bad or wants the ruin of this country.
I think we have different opinions.
I think everyone probably wants the best for this place and we have different opinions on how to get there.
And guess what?
Both sides are fucking wrong all the time.
Both sides are, I have to remind the people in my bubble, like, y'all, we came up with communism.
Got to remind you the liberals want communism.
I'm like, this isn't a fucking, you know, we're all, we're all really fallible.
And I can't even be comfortable until I think I understand at least what your intention is.
I need to understand why you feel that way or you're motivated that way.
Cause the scariest thing to me is being around somebody that I don't understand, that is unpredictable, that I can't predict how they're going to feel.
That to me scares me.
So I just really need to know what is it that you're latched onto here that's emotional.
And generally, if I take the time to do that, I force myself to make the argument that the other side would have.
I go like, yeah, it's rational for them and from their point of view.
And they're not bad.
We have a different opinion.
I just kind of reject that like half the country is this or that.