Kano, the UK Grime pioneer and Top Boy star, details his career evolution from Jungle to 140 BPM Grime, recalling how police banned tracks like "POW" for moshing crowds. He contrasts US gun culture with UK safety, noting he hires white guards for protection, while defending his acting integrity against Hollywood producers who lack street authenticity. The conversation covers his six-year hiatus, his preference for live musical comfort over comedy's reliance on surprise, and cultural comparisons ranging from Queen Elizabeth II jokes to Toronto's slang influences, ultimately highlighting his commitment to artistic longevity over fleeting commercial success. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Will Smith Oscars Incident00:04:35
Isn't it sad, right?
The Will Smithing.
Yeah, it's mad.
You've heard about what happened, right?
What happened to him?
Yeah.
Outside of the Oscars fans.
He's laughing, but like what he has to go through.
What he has to end up with.
What does he have to go through?
Well, he has to watch his wife get her fanny rinsed.
Bro, that's part of his life.
What's up, everybody?
And welcome to Flagrant.
We're in the UK.
And right now, we're sitting down with, listen, one of the pioneers of UK hip-hop.
Okay.
We're sitting down with one of the stars of the greatest show that's ever come out of the UK.
Take that, Ricky Gervais.
Okay.
We got a guy who has made it.
And I'll tell you how I know he fucking made it because he's got white security.
Wow.
Okay.
This is how you know you made it.
He was a five foot two inch pop-eyed armed white security guard that would tear my fucking head off when I said hello.
I felt absolutely terrified.
We have Kano in a goddamn building.
Give it up for Kano.
We got rum in the cups.
How are you, brother?
Yeah, I'm good, man.
Everything good?
Everything's great.
When did you start hiring white guys to protect you?
When too much black guys were dying.
George Floyd, it was just...
Wait, really?
No, no, no.
You know, it's funny.
Charlemagne said that to me.
No way.
He's like, dude, he's like, dude, I'm telling you, you know that I'm safe if there's a guy with, if a white dude is in like a suit and he has like a legal gun.
Yeah.
Like, he's like, yeah, that's how you know I've actually made it.
When my security guards have legal guns.
Yeah.
Wait, does he have a gun?
He doesn't need a gun out here, right?
I don't think you have guns out here like that.
It can't be a legal gun for sure.
Yeah, you can, I think you can have legal guns as security, but you got a...
I think they carry them when they're looking after like politicians and stuff like that.
So the police don't even get to carry a gun.
Police carry guns.
They do.
Yeah, yeah.
Not every police.
I saw this documentary about being a cop in the UK.
It's called Luther.
I don't know if you've seen it.
They did not have guns in this documentary.
Yeah, it's a nice coat, though.
He did have a five coat.
That's why I realized that Bill Wicken Hitter's elbow was that show.
Yeah, yeah.
We got like Trident that, you know, like they had the gun police and stuff like that.
You get a Trident?
Like, yeah, we got like certain branches of police that.
Oh, got you, got you.
Yeah.
That is the shit from the Little Mermaid.
I'm like, dude, this is next level, man.
I did not act.
Whatever, dude.
Okay.
Yeah, we're still understanding like the gun culture here.
I think that was the trickiest thing for, you know, for Top Boy for me.
Yeah.
Is that like the idea was like these like gangsters who was out in the street and they were like sharing weapons and stuff like that.
And like to me, like weapons are just so available.
Everyone's got one.
Yeah.
Yes.
Like even a non-gangster.
Mostly non-gangsters.
Exclusively non-gangsters.
Yeah, exclusively.
Like you have to do something bad where the gun is okay.
You can't.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, if you're in England and you're a non-gangster, there's no, you don't have a gun.
No gun.
Maybe like shotguns from farmers or some shit like that.
Yeah, yeah.
Not everyone's walking around with a gun.
Really?
Yeah.
And then when the farmers have.
I'm not sort of brave in Road Rage.
Oh.
Road Rage is way more fun.
Yeah, yeah.
But when you're in America, they're like, don't argue with no one.
Yeah, that's true.
Like, yeah, that guy might just have a gun.
I grew up in Texas.
Everybody has a gun, and they say, don't honk at anybody because that guy might get pissed off that you honked.
Also, the nicest people in Texas.
Something for that reason.
Yeah.
Right?
Think about it.
The more guns, the more.
Hey, hey, y'all, how you doing?
Yeah.
New York, not that many guns.
Yeah, go fuck yourself.
New York laws are different, yeah?
There's, yeah, you're very strict.
Okay.
Because there's so many people around.
There's going to be more interactions where you want to shoot somebody.
That's all right.
I'm sure you guys with a gun thing.
You with it or you think that needs to change?
I'm with me having it.
Yeah, yeah.
Very strict.
I want white security with a gun.
That's what I want.
I don't even want to hold it, but I do want a guy like you holding a gun, like the guy you had, Frank.
Is that his name?
They're all Frank to me.
Every British white guy is Frank.
Yeah.
Okay.
He wants a Frank.
I want a Frank.
Right?
Because if a guy came up to you, like, if somebody's harassing you, and then like that guy just walked up, like a fucking bowling pin just came up and he was like, all right, enough.
Yeah.
It's enough.
It's enough.
He's got to be, he's got to be British too.
I feel like with the accent, you can scrap.
Yeah, right out of the, what's the guy's movie?
Which one?
Guy Richie.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, Guy Richie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good one, right?
Guy Richie was snatching that, innit?
Snatched.
Snatched.
Lockstock.
Two smoking barrels.
Guy Ritchie Movie References00:15:41
Two girls, one cup.
He did a lot of.
That was a good one.
That was a good one, right?
Yeah, yeah.
He's great with that.
Yeah, he's.
I love his work.
Talent.
Yeah, Guy Richie is just amazing.
So, what do you see from English culture, like before, like top boy or whatever, or hearing the music?
Before, I don't think before any, we didn't know.
I didn't know that you broke the law.
Yeah.
But so what would you see from like football or something?
Yeah, yeah.
We thought y'all were a bit sissy.
Okay.
Well, here's the thing: I didn't think you guys were sissy.
I thought you said that he's past tense.
I thought you had everything you needed.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's like you get the house from the government, right?
If you're not, if you're out of a job, cancel house, yeah, yeah.
They give you the house.
So, like, and then you have health care.
Yeah, yeah.
So then, like, when people are out there robbing, I'm just like, why are you being greedy?
Yeah, you're greedy.
You know?
Yeah, America.
Like in America, like, someone steals my jacket.
I'm like, are you cold?
Yeah.
So is there ever part of that growing up where you're like, ah, maybe we shouldn't do that?
The government's so nice.
Yeah, I don't know.
It's like, it's mad because I guess like when you don't know any better, you don't know any different.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
It is what it is.
So if you haven't got any money, you just haven't got any money.
But sometimes you don't really see, you know, like your other countries can't go to the hospital if they get sick.
You know?
It's like, so we're privileged in that sense.
You know what I mean?
But you don't really see it because that's all we know.
Yeah.
Poverty is relative.
Yeah, it's relative.
Yeah.
It's relative.
But cancel housing, what you don't have cancel housing.
We do.
Section 8, we call it back home.
Like, listen, they're not going to let you live on the streets, but like people are a little bit more desperate, it feels like.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Like, it's like my mother's from Scotland, right?
And she said there are people who just go on, I think it's called the dole.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, she had family members.
It's like, all right, we're not going to really work.
And that's, this is the new job, which is the dole.
Yeah.
Yeah, the dole.
I guess we have welfare, but it doesn't seem like we have a lot more homeless than here.
Yeah, you guys don't have that many homeless.
Maybe it's the weather.
Maybe the rain eats them out.
We got to find a way to choose.
Make the weather more rainy back home, please.
Shane Daway said, I'll rather be rich in America, but poor here.
Oh, 100%.
You get looked after better.
You know what I'm saying?
I think there are people who will move back home.
I think my mom even said that one.
She's like, I know if it doesn't work out there, I can always go back home.
I know people whose family members come here when they need a certain operation.
You know what I mean?
That they can just go to AE for and get it taken care of.
Yeah.
Or like a girl has like a kid in the States with somebody, doesn't work out, comes back here.
What happened, bro?
Wait, did that happen with you?
No, dude.
I thought I hit on something.
I was like, wait, hold on a minute.
Relax, Frank.
Relax.
Wait, did that happen?
No, it didn't afterwards.
Did you knock up an American girl?
No.
Are you sure?
I'm very sure.
I don't know if you're that sure, dude.
No, I'm sure.
Because some of the girls here, huh?
Wait, what?
What, Al?
What?
They don't got the best looking women out there.
How long have you been here?
Yeah, how long have you been here?
Exactly.
24 hours.
24 hours.
And you're jet lagged.
Where have you been?
I don't know.
I never thought tonight.
Hey!
Okay.
Wait, why?
But Al, what are you into?
What type of girls do you like?
The pretty ones.
The pretty ones.
But there are pretty girls here.
They were beautiful last night.
What are you talking about?
Yeah.
Al likes.
No, they were with us, you mean?
The ones that we brought.
There was one.
Shortage house, sushi samba on the 60th floor.
And you didn't find the women attractive?
Really?
Yeah.
Why is this?
I mean, what do you mean?
Why is this?
I didn't find them attractive.
But like, there wasn't one that passed?
No.
Do you think there's just something that happens here in the water?
Right?
It's like.
I ain't tried to get shot by dude outside.
Yeah, I've never seen Al intimidated ever.
Talking about my mother.
Okay, now you've traveled, obviously.
Do you think the women get better looking in other areas?
Be honest.
But nope.
Nope.
This is the most beautiful.
What about Jamaica?
I heard you decide to lie.
You laughed, and then you said, You were going to be honest?
You said, I didn't know.
No, you got somebody you're lying for, and I respect that.
It's London.
I'm sure they're beautiful.
I'm sure she is beautiful.
Typically, American women, very beautiful.
English women, not as much.
You think?
My mom's from Scotland.
Your mom, great kits.
Thank you.
Great kits.
I mean, it's facts, bro.
Why do you think I'm six, two?
You should have been sucking more.
You sucked yourself to 5'7.
I need to grow up, you know?
I stayed on that tit until I was like 14.
But no, for real, my mom is a very attractive woman from Scotland.
Scotland.
Like a six in America, but like a Scottish.
The conversion rate was tough back in the day.
No, no, no.
My mom's a dime, dude.
My mom's a fucking dime.
She's a dime.
Five pence.
Five pence.
But no, she's, you know, she's a hot chick smoking hot chick from Scotland.
I think British women are very attractive.
I don't know what you're saying, but maybe you maybe you don't like freckles, Al?
Is that it?
But when you say British, you mean like English English?
Just say it.
White, white English.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Al only likes white women.
That's another thing.
That's the thing.
He won't admit it to you.
You would think I would like one out here.
This is too white for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But there are certain women here that they look like the fish at the bottom of the ocean.
Like they're that translucent.
Angler fish?
Yeah.
We have them too back home, like Portland in Portland.
It's like that.
Yeah, Portland, San Francisco, disgusting women.
Yeah.
Like real, just fucking say what?
Don't you have to go there?
Yeah, we do.
We do that.
But they get more tickets when I say this.
It's the fucking weirdest thing.
Oh, my goodness.
But it is a little thing here.
So we're not saying it's specific to London.
I think the women here are beautiful.
I think you're a racist.
That's what I think.
I'm black.
I can't be racist.
Why not?
Just a rules.
Oh, those rules don't apply here, buddy.
Yeah, no.
Yeah, you're international.
It's different over here.
Can you be racist?
No, I'm with.
I'm with.
There we go.
I'm American.
It's different out here, bro.
No, there's different rules, man.
There's different racial rules, isn't it?
Like, is anybody here black or is it like?
No, no, no, no.
I'm about to make sense.
I'm about to make sense.
I know what he means.
Would you identify first as black?
Yeah.
Or do you go, I'm Jamaican?
Yes.
Or Nigerian or whatever.
Like the way I'm Indian, not brown.
Yeah, and not Asian.
Yeah.
Ujibune.
No.
I would say I'm black.
You would start with black.
Yeah.
I thought that was an American advantage.
I'm 22.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, but then, yeah.
Yeah.
Jamaican, Caribbean.
So it goes black, Jamaican, British?
Black, British, and Jamaican.
Black, British, Jamaica.
That's the set.
You're black, British.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My mom was born in Jamaica.
Do you ever wish you were just American, bro?
Do you ever sit back and wish?
Sometimes I wish I was born in Jamaica.
Really?
Why?
I don't know.
Did you ever live there?
Did you get to film out there?
I've never, yeah, I filmed that there.
Just not for the show.
No, I wasn't a part of those scenes, but I've done other stuff out there and that.
But I don't know, man.
It's just like, yeah, I love it.
I went there a lot as a kid, spent a lot of time.
We used to go there for the six weeks, for the holidays, and all of that.
Yeah, so spent loads of time.
Love it.
Yeah, love it.
I think a lot of people in London really connect with where their parents are from.
Yes.
That's kind of what I'm trying to say.
They're less in America.
Yeah.
Well, a lot of people are American, right?
Well, they don't really.
They don't, unfortunately, because the fucked up shit America did, they don't really know what to connect with.
So they could 23andMe and be like, oh, you're from the Congo.
But it's not like they can call somebody up in the Congo and be like, what happened back in the day that I'm here?
But people living in East Coast.
Right?
But people here really have a direct connection.
You know, whether you get Indian or Jamaican or African.
Because, well, typically you're probably one generation deep, maybe two, right?
There's not people that are here like four or five generations who are like, oh, I'm Jamaican.
That's it.
Yeah.
Was the neighborhood you grew up in with a lot of like Caribbeans?
The neighborhood.
I can't believe I said neighborhood.
What do you call it?
The road?
The area.
Oh, the ends.
Yeah.
But the area I grew up in was probably majority Indian.
Oh, really?
Geez up, yeah.
I'm sure you're aware of this about what's happening right now in America and how popular UK drill is becoming.
Are you familiar with this?
Not too familiar, but yeah.
Bro, bro.
I'm not, I'm not.
Dude, I'm serious.
There's a song by Central C. Do you know Central C?
You've heard of him.
Yeah.
Do you know Central C?
I have to teach him about drill.
Do you know this rapper in English?
Listen, there's a genre of music called UK drill.
And Central C is a young bloke.
Is that what they're called?
He's the Mandem.
Yeah, he's one of the Mandem.
The Blokey.
Is Bloke a good word?
No, Bloke's more like a quick security garden.
He's going to be like an English thing, you would say, like a white English thing.
No, he's not.
Well, what is half Guyanese?
Yeah.
Whoa.
He's like a quarter Indian probably.
And then what's the other half?
I think Irish.
So he's part bloke.
He's half bloke.
Yeah.
He's bloke-ish.
Yeah, I think he's bloke a little bit.
Half of his family's like...
He's oak at least.
Yeah.
You know, half of his family's a little.
Anyway.
Okay, so he had this song, and then the opening lyric was just so catchy.
Yeah.
How can I be homophobic?
Yeah.
Right.
And then immediately you're like, I would like to know how you could be that way.
And then he has a good answer.
Answer.
His bitch is gay.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
He keeps explaining it to him like he doesn't know.
And that's.
But he keeps looking at me like I'm explaining.
I think he's like, is this dumbass really going to explain to me?
Like, I don't know.
Listen, a lot has changed since you started hip-hop.
Listen, you started hip-hop.
I know this.
Hip-hop didn't start in the Bronx.
It started in East London.
Yep.
Okay.
With the nasty blokes.
Listen, it was a crazy time back then.
No, I remember.
I wasn't even with this.
This is the version I remember.
Yeah.
Wasn't it crazy?
Because originally, like, you know, we can go back.
We'll tell the mandem about it.
So, you know, back before that, before there's grime, there is, what was it?
It was garage or something.
UK garage.
Garage.
And then before that, what drum and bass?
Jungle.
We called it jungle back then.
But that's.
Am I allowed to say that?
Yeah, You know, sometimes things.
It's just people in the neighborhood, man.
What is that?
It's the white people, the white people.
It was Kung Lane.
And then it moves up.
It comes like garage music.
That's a little better.
Maybe my books in it for sure.
Okay, so it is a little bit.
Yeah, jungle.
Okay, so we have grime pops up.
At this time, is nobody rapping here?
No, people are rapping.
People are rapping, but more like what you would consider rap, like hip-hop.
So grime represents the first version of rap that is like authentically.
I don't want to say to this them that were doing that, but it was in our own voice.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
From our like our own perspective, you know, dressing the way we're dressing.
Just it was more British.
Yep.
You know what I mean?
Yep.
There was rappers before, but it was more like boom bab, kind of inspired by what was going on then in the early 90s or whatever.
100%.
And ours was like different BPM, like completely different way you would perform.
It was probably as inspired by Jamaican dancehall music as it was American hip-hop.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Do a lot of people know that?
That like rap is a version of this Jamaican dance hall music?
Like rap rap.
Rap rap.
Like even early on.
Yeah.
I think who's like cool like Herc and that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jamaican.
But is that more known here?
I don't probably not by a younger generation.
Right.
Okay.
Okay.
No, it's not really a story that's told.
I feel like that's kind of lost in the States as well.
Yeah.
I hope they know it.
Yeah.
I feel like people are like, Curtis Blow started rapping and then that's where it began.
Growing up in Texas, I didn't ever hear that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
That's what I was always understood that the influence came from these like Jamaican like dance hall kind of DJs who would rap slash DJ.
Because when we done it, we would like, you know, run instrumentals and you would like you would constantly like you would mix instrumentals, like one after the other, like mix into each other and everyone would just go back to back and then you'll get a wheel up.
You know what I mean?
But that was more like how they would do it in dancehall music.
You know, I never really heard, like in the stuff we were listening to at the time, like, I don't know, would be like the Nasis and the Jay-Zs and whatever, was very much like them just kind of freestyling over a beat.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
It wasn't really, it wasn't really like, I don't know, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm wrong, but it wasn't really like 10 guys going back to back on an instrumental, if you know what I mean.
Yeah.
They didn't have that too many times.
Yeah.
And like sometimes they would have like a gang record where it's like, um, that's what this person's crew and this person's crew come together and it's almost like a competition of who really has the best verse on the track.
Ah, those are like far and few in between when they would do stuff like that.
Yeah.
I feel like they do that a lot more in, especially dancehall.
They do that a lot.
Where it's just a bunch of dudes.
Yeah, they'll have like a rhythm.
Yeah, they have a rhythm and everyone would go and focus on that same rhythm.
Yeah.
Like, yeah, I don't really see that in like American hip-hop.
Well, I didn't see that when I was, you know, coming up.
So that's where we took influence from that, you know, writer.
And what's the biggest difference, in your opinion, that sets Grime apart from American hip-hop and even Garage?
In its early from American hip-hop in its earliest days was the BPM, like the tempo of it.
That's another thing, like everything was at 140 BPM.
Everything had to be that speed.
Like now it's like different.
They call stuff grime, but it's not really technically grime.
But grime was 140 BPM and hip-hop was a lot slower.
And from Garage, the difference between Grime and Garage was Garage was more like and Garage MCs because Garage was more like vocal garage.
So it'll be like a beat and then like someone singing.
Hip Hop Tempo Evolution00:14:47
And then you'll have this space where there's like eight bars where the beat would drop and you got eight bars.
And then it'll go back to singing.
So as an MC, you just had to know what I mean.
And for the rest of the time, you're just hyping up the crowd.
So you're more like a host with a good eight bars.
And I'm super like playing down, but not this and that.
I don't even think this is the real name of the song, but POW.
Yeah, POW was the name of the song.
In the beginning, it's called Forward Rhythm.
Yes.
Why do you know?
You Googled that.
Nope.
So my understanding of POW is that like this was one of the first songs to be like banned almost.
Like there was like signs saying, DJs, don't play this because there were like mosh pits and shit.
Do you remember this happening?
And do you remember feeling like, is that the first sense of like, oh, there's a real authentic thing that's kind of happening in this UK hip-hop?
Yeah.
I remember, I don't remember feeling, oh, this feels like something's happening.
It was just quite annoying, you know what I mean?
That we couldn't.
That you couldn't even play.
Everywhere we were playing was getting shut down.
You know what I mean?
Why was it getting shut down?
Because police just didn't want it to happen.
Really?
You know what I mean?
It's just, which was weird because there would be like fucking rock concerts with white guys moshing.
But when it was like 2,000 black guys moshing, it was like, oh, no, no, no, that's a problem.
You know what I mean?
So it was annoying at the time.
But yeah, looking back, it was like there really was something happening.
But you know, when you're in something, you don't, you don't know what's going on.
You're just in it.
He's just doing it.
Yeah, we're going to the Pirate Radio and just we're building something, but it's not like we're building a company and we're seeing results.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just, this is just what, you know.
Yeah.
You should let white people have mosh pits.
Now, did you think that, do you think that people were attaching, as you look back, do you think that people were attaching themselves that they felt like represented them, that there was like their own?
I'm not saying that this is like an Eminem thing, but like, you know how like when Eminem came out, I think there was a lot of white people that outside of just seeing like a white person, they also felt like someone talking about like the angst.
This happened with Nirvana as well.
And like just touched on like a chord that people are feeling.
100%.
100%.
It was the first time people had ownership over what they was listening to.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like they felt like it was their stories being told.
Yeah.
And as much as we love American hip-hop.
It's not your story.
It's not.
So we're listening to it like we're watching Boys in the Hood or something.
Yeah.
And learning about.
You know what I mean?
LA, like hearing Nas and how he describes Queensbridge and you just fucking think, fucking no, it's almost like when a guy is spitting and talking about round the corner and that guy up there and you know that guy is and that shop that he goes to and whatever and the beef that's happening and he's talking about it.
You're like, fucking no, this is like, this is our shit.
For once we've got our shit.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So it was like, yeah, it was.
Do you like the music now?
UK?
What's going on now?
Yeah.
Like, I like loads of it, but it's not, it's not as closed as it was.
I said it had to be 140.
You know what I mean?
Now it's kind of, you know, it can be whatever, you know, whatever.
Like guys, I mean, there's still like, you know, genres like you said, UK Drill, or there might be like Afro beats going on, or I mean, there might be some guys still doing like traditional grime, more hip-hop style.
But what I like is I like, I like it to feel like a blend.
You know what I mean?
I like to make music that gives you the feeling of garage, even though it ain't a garage speed or whatever, but it just might be in something.
It might be in the way I pitch up the vocal that gives you that feeling of garage.
I like my Jamaican roots to come through.
You know what I mean?
I like the attack from Grime.
You know what I mean?
So I just, I like that melting pot.
And to try and eclectic thing.
Yeah.
Like, like, you know, and a lot of guys do it in America.
Like, sometimes I hear Kanye.
I'm like, you, you, you, you might hear, wait till I get mama and whatever.
And it, and it, the street guys probably fuck with it, even though he's not street, but he has something about that essence.
But then, you know, you got that like Kendrick, he's my, I think he's one that we're talking about Andre, he's one of the best guys to ever rap.
I think Kendrick's one of the best guys to ever rap.
And he's great in like, it doesn't feel like he's a part of the street life, but he can observe it incredibly well and then tell the stories about it.
Yeah, he gives you that feeling like so, so well, many different feelings.
Because he grew up in it.
Yeah.
Yeah, he knows that.
But when he wants to get jazz influenced as well, like Pimpa Butterfly, whatever, he gives you, I don't know, it's just, it's beautiful, you know what I mean?
But I like the mesh.
That's what I like.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm curious about like who your counterpart is in America.
Oh, wow.
Like who people say?
Do they say Nas ever?
That's just been said.
Yeah.
How do you take that?
I don't know.
It's tough because Nas is not fucking Nas, you know what I mean?
Yeah, but to you, I mean, to somebody, you might be Nas, you know what I mean?
Like, because they relate to what you're saying in the same way that these kids growing up in Queensbridge are listening to Nas' stories and going, holy shit.
But I say that more because like there's a real attachment to the artistry, you know?
And like at least coming up in New York, I mean, Nas was just like, yeah, he was an artist.
And when I say artist, I mean, like, he puts the art in front of the commerce.
That's not to say he doesn't want to make money.
Like, please believe everybody's in this.
Yeah, the root of the Jay-Z Nas beef, if you like Nas, you just, we really like that.
You felt like he put art front.
Yeah, I just, yeah, I loved him.
And I just loved him like experimenting.
Like, there's that song, that Nas song Rewind.
And I was like, what a cool thing to do.
Just like play with the genre.
Like, tell the story backwards.
See what happens, right?
And it's like, I don't know, I was listening to a lot of your stuff and I was even listening to that interview with a colleague.
And like, it was actually easier for me to understand it when you guys were doing it without any music in the background.
And like the attention, like detail.
And just hearing you talk about it, it's a fine line that I don't know.
I also feel like I have to like walk, which is here's the way to make the most money, which is not necessarily going to make me happy.
And here's the way to make the fucking art that will make me happy and hopefully make some money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
And here's the way to make the art that would has longevity or the art that will allow me to be around in another 10 years.
You know?
Like, because you can, you know, you can make that art that, okay, this might work now.
Flavor of the moment.
But this might not help.
This might not age well.
Right.
What's the legacy you're leaving behind with the music?
Yeah, exactly.
And I see it both ways.
And some guys are like, no, they want to make the money now.
Yeah.
And, you know, fair play to them.
Yeah.
But I've always entered this like, you know, I want to be around in 10.
And then when it's 10, I want to be around in another 10.
And how old were you when you started rapping and like coming up in that scene?
Like 16 or something.
Oh, really?
And was it?
When I first started making songs, it was 15, 16.
Was it what?
Was it dangerous back in the day?
Like in that specific time?
Or were all the guys really focused on the art?
It was dangerous.
It was dangerous.
It was dangerous from garage.
Because as sweet as garage sound, that's what the gangsters used to rave to.
You know what I mean?
So there was a lot of shootings in garage clubs.
Interesting.
When you hear Garage now, you're like, how the fuck can you shoot people today?
But that was quite dangerous.
And our raves when we started them, yeah, occasionally there was trouble or whatever, but it didn't feel as serious as the Garage thing.
But then because we were participating, it was always about the art for us anyway.
You know what I mean?
And that excitement of just performing and getting the opportunity to do something you love in front of people, you know?
Now, sometimes when an art form isn't as lucrative, we overvalue the art because that's all we have.
And then when money enters, that changes certain people.
You know, early on in a genre, in anything, it's like the people who just love rapping are going to live, die every single day to rap.
They got a side job just so they can rap.
Same thing with comedy or anything.
But now, rapping is very lucrative.
And I'm wondering if that changes the music because it starts to draw the people who aren't really into it for the artistic.
Big labels and corporations and stuff.
Yeah.
And how do you printing that conflict?
Yeah.
Do you know what?
Yeah, money's great.
That definitely happened.
I feel like when that started to happen over here, because I don't know what would be the equivalent time period for you guys, would it be like, I don't know, like the LL period when money started coming big?
I would say early 90s money started coming big.
Yeah.
And LL might have been someone that you still respected.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
But a lot of people inspired by LL was probably coming with cheesy shit.
You know what I mean?
Inspired by that, not the art form that he was inspired by.
That period for us was, you know, probably around 2000 or 12 or something like that.
A lot of people was coming in and making hit records.
Like Dizzy had a few hits and a lot of people started making it.
Sup Look Sharp, was that around that time?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it was around that time.
Just after that time.
A lot of people were making music that they thought was going to making music that would work in the charts.
You know what I mean?
There's a formula to it.
Straight up formula.
And around that time, funny enough, I kind of dipped out of the game.
I just, I kind of, I didn't know.
I couldn't find my place within that new way.
Yeah.
You know?
Because you thought it was corny.
Because you're artsy, bro.
But I didn't think people was valuing what I was doing.
Yeah.
You know?
Well, yeah.
So I didn't really have a place.
Yeah.
So I kind of was a bit uninspired, dipped out a bit.
And that's when I started that.
That's when I done Topboy.
I didn't fall back away from music to start acting, but it just so happened that the Top Boy thing came about.
Yeah.
And then, you know, done that for a couple of years.
And then I didn't make an album for like six years.
Yeah.
And then came back in 2016 and made an album.
And refreshing the response to the new album?
Refreshing, fucking nerve-wracking.
Yeah.
It takes a level of, and I always encourage artists nowadays, it does take a level of confidence to go away for a while because you think people are going to forget you.
And then it's like, fucking, you know, can I do something worthy enough to draw people's attention again?
Because they've forgotten you.
But trust me, if it's quality, if it's worth listening to, people will fuck with it.
You know what I mean?
But then not to be.
What brought you back into it?
Why after six years are you like, nah, now I find my, I know my place?
I don't even know if I knew my place.
I just wanted to write again.
So I probably started writing after like four years, worked on it for about two years when it came in 2016.
But like it was and it and it was different to what was going on.
I knew what I was about to release was kind of different to what was going on, which I thought may be a wrong move.
But it just felt like the right thing.
And I've come to a place in my life where I was like, look, if I'm going to fail, because I've done some stuff before that didn't really work.
And you know, when something sounds like a compromise?
And I was like, do you know what?
Fuck that.
If I'm going to fail, this is going to fail with me loving it.
You know what I mean?
But failing and compromising is the worst.
Like when no one's happy, you know what I mean?
Exactly.
It's like you know you sold out a little bit and they do too and they and they reject it.
Fans didn't win, record labor didn't win, you didn't win.
I sold out and made no money.
But failing and being proud of the project isn't failing.
It's like I made the music I want to make or I make the comedy I want to make.
I stand on it.
Yeah.
And something that you can probably identify with is like sometimes it's not about the million people.
Sometimes it's about I'm doing the shit that I want and there's 10,000 people.
How do we make that grow?
You know what I mean?
When I come back into my 16, the first show I done was like, I think it was maybe like 800 people or something.
You know what I mean?
And people were probably doing arenas at that time with the pop music or whatever.
Then it was like, okay, back to 12 again.
And then it was like, you know, 3,000.
Then I've done Brixton and 5,000.
And, you know, the 10, whatever it was, you know what I mean?
So it was like slow growth is sometimes better than that just like, you know, quick success.
And it was like, you know what?
I can, I can garner an audience and keep them engaged, not just, you know, engaged by like dropping songs all the time, but just working on, we were talking about earlier, about working on the show.
The show itself.
And making the show something that you have to come and see.
So I might do bigger shows than someone else with a number one or something, but it's because I've built the show.
They're not here.
They're not at the show because of the single I've just released.
It's the experience.
They're at the show because every time, every year, the experiences got better and better and people go and tell their friends.
And probably community has friends that are connected through the music.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah, the show.
I mean, yeah, the parallels between music and comedy obviously are always there, but like it's something that we pay extra close attention to because I think a lot of comics stop at, oh, my hour is really funny.
Building Engaging Live Shows00:04:46
Yeah.
And it's just like, if you had 10 hits, you could stop.
Yeah.
You just play the 10 hits.
It's a performance art.
And it's both.
It's got to be performance and art.
Exactly.
And if you make it, if you put as much attention into the show as the art, if the show becomes part of the art and nobody else is doing it, they're leaving that with like a real profound experience.
And everybody wants a cool thing to do.
And there's not that much cool shit to do.
Like, how often have you been with your girls?
What should we do tonight?
Go out to eat.
I don't remember the last like activity I've done with my girl.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, it's just leaving the house for.
That's it.
But if you have something to fucking leave the house for and it's worth it, yeah, it's crazy.
If you ask a couple that's been together for five years, they've seen every movie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's nothing else to do.
Yeah.
And what is that feeling like the week before the album drops?
Like all that anxiety built up.
Like, was that emotional, that experience before and after?
Yeah, it does.
But it's also something you tell yourself.
I don't care.
I'm not going to buy into that.
Yeah.
You know, the results of it all.
You know what I mean?
I know what I've made.
I know I like what I made at the dead.
And, you know, day two, you're like, where are we at?
I'm sure you've done it with a special.
I check it every day.
Like, yeah, how many now?
How many now?
Every day, bro.
You know what I'm saying?
So it's like, yeah.
And yeah, they come back.
It was, you know, top 10 record or whatever it was.
And I've never had a top 10 record before.
You know what I mean?
So it was like doing something on my own terms and it actually succeeding.
But about the show thing as well, it's like willing to lose money at the beginning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To make money, a lot of breaking even.
You know what I mean?
To then one day, you know.
Because a lot of people don't know that.
Like when you're doing a show in, let's say, a venue that's a thousand seats, but the show is built for a venue that's 5,000.
Yeah, yeah.
It costs so much money.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
I remember one of Kanye's tours.
I forgot which one.
Like it was the most extravagant show, but I think he broke even.
Yeah.
It was problem when he was like surfing around.
Yeah, it's such a crazy show.
Yeah.
But he ain't making it.
And for artists like me, like he's probably doing, and he's probably doing arenas everywhere.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I'm doing, you know, fucking 10,000 people, 3,000, then 1,000 up in this place up there.
You know what I mean?
But I'm trying to bring the same show.
You got to go, Michelle.
You know what I mean?
That's the show just helping that show.
You know what I mean?
But this is the experience I want to give people, you know?
And then you see that 1,000 build up to the next level.
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Securing Better Seat Views00:14:37
Do you listen to the album so many times that it sucks before you put it out?
Are you like hyper?
Am I happy what?
Like hyper focused on every single aspect of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But have you I'm asking this selfishly, like we, when we're putting out the special, we've watched it probably 300 times.
Yeah.
And I'm watching it with my best friends that are also comedians.
And all three of us are sitting next to one another and we haven't laughed for an hour straight.
Yeah.
That's demoralizing.
And you're just looking around like, is this even funny?
Yeah.
How do you maintain the confidence with music?
Yeah.
Music's even harder.
There's no reaction with comedy.
Like you can show it to them.
If you misdirect them, you could get it.
But music, it's like people like songs after they hear them a bunch of times.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Except for Central C, whoever knew every song was crazy.
Yeah, no, it's crazy.
Yeah.
It's like the, you know, 100 times over and over, but it's, you're listening with different ears.
You're, you know, if yeah, if you come in the studio and we're listening to the song, it's not, it's, we're not really listening to the song.
We're listening to the reverb on the chorus this time.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And then we make a tweak and then, okay, let's let's hear it again, you know, play it from the beginning to see how that bit feels when it comes again.
So we listen to it over and over again.
And I guess the next time you can enjoy it is probably when you're playing it for someone else.
That's the thing.
And you're seeing their reaction.
You know what I mean?
We did it.
We had like a watch party.
I was at like a shit.
So did you enjoy it then?
Bro, so much better.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then you leave, you're like, I'm great.
Yeah.
When do you stop critiquing it when it's out?
Never.
Oh, when it's out, I have to, yeah, I have to.
Because there's nothing you can do, right?
You forget about it.
Yeah.
So when it's out, yeah, it's just out.
If I listened again, I could make things better.
You could look at it.
The tricky thing with music, though, is that you can fix things retroactively.
Like the Kanye thing or even like Beyonce.
You put out a track and you got to change some words, pull it, slap it.
Yeah, you can.
Now, I don't know if I would do that.
I wouldn't do it for...
I mean, yeah, if it was like, shit, I ended up hearing this on the radio a bunch of times and the chorus feels a little low and I would like to go and fix the menu.
Turn that up a little bit.
Maybe I'll do that, but I wouldn't like just change the third verse.
Redo the third verse or something.
But it's interesting that you can do that.
Yeah.
The process never ends.
It's almost like crippling because you're listening to everything being like, oh, I could.
But it's not like once you put something out, it's like, in a way, it's not, it don't belong to you anymore.
You know, it's stars now.
Yeah, the artists.
You know what I mean?
And it's, yeah, it's for everyone.
The most terrifying thing about music to me is the vulnerability of putting out a song or an album without hearing tons of people listen to it.
Yeah.
By the time we put out a special, I've done this in front of hundreds of thousands of people.
I've seen them laugh from beginning to end.
Yeah.
You're putting out this.
And we still doubt it.
And we still are like, oh, is it right?
We have to tweak this.
Or is it something you had to be in the building for that might not translate on you?
100%.
So with music, it's like that.
I mean, maybe you just get so, I don't know, maybe you get so technical with it.
You could start to predict it.
But is there ever that feeling where you're like, I got to play this in the club before we release it?
I don't do that.
So I'm just anxious the way you've just explained.
Yeah, that angst is there.
I mean, you're making it in a...
Well, me personally, there's normally like three of us in the studio.
I'm not in the studio with like a bunch of people.
When we do invite people and they come, you know, you can gauge a reaction, but how genuine is that all the time?
You know, I mean, sometimes you just come in the studio, you hear something, you know, you think it's better than it really is because it's the experience and all of that kind of shit.
But what I do envy, now you've explained what you have and how you do it, I envy that.
I wish I could go out on the road and try these songs out before we play.
Yeah.
But I don't think that's, I think that's a rap thing because I think singer-songwriters can do that.
Like you can go and say, This is a new song I wrote last night.
Just sing it.
But rap requires such a response and feedback.
You can't really perform new songs.
And you have to like take in the lyrics and like it's a whole different thing.
Yeah.
I almost need to listen to hip-hop in a car by myself with loud music or headphones really absorb.
Like AirPods, it's not going to be as good.
But when you perform in a concert, the audience needs to have heard that song already.
Yeah, because there's too many people.
The sound waves are going everywhere.
I can't tell you.
There's a thing musicians do often.
They'll be like, I'm about to play you my new shit.
And everybody knows he's like, save it.
Like, for what, right?
Pay for the new shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, you almost got to slide it in.
Yeah.
Yes.
Dude, that's the thing.
It's the thing I envy about music, but what's so terrible is like back end, it lasts for much longer.
If I tell a joke and you've already heard it, you don't need to hear it again.
It's, I hate, I'm pissed if I hear it again.
Exactly.
Like, you can watch specials multiple times.
Sometimes it's in the background, but you don't laugh in the same way.
Yeah, you have to leave it a long time as well.
Exactly.
Something to surprise you.
There needs to be elements of surprise.
Whereas music is the element of comfort.
The more I know a song, the happier I am when you play it.
You can perform it over and over and over again.
And like you said, I'm pissed if you're playing stuff I don't know.
I want you to play all the stuff I've heard.
I want to hear it again from you the thousandth time is the best time.
It's about the experience as opposed to the action.
Can people come to the show twice?
Yes, yes, and they should.
They should often do that.
That's a great idea.
It's a unique experience every time.
I think people are getting a little more hip to the fact that how comedy works a little bit.
But I remember going to see a comic before I did comedy and then watching him do the same stuff like a few months later.
And I walked out of it and they're like, what just happened?
Yeah.
What the fuck was it?
There's a difference when it's like, it's like my favorite comedian of all time is a guy named Patrice O'Neill, who like spent some time here actually.
Okay.
In England.
I think he spent like a few years even in England, like really kind of built himself up.
Oh, he must have.
That's where he got good.
Yeah, so did Jay-Z.
Yeah.
So did Bob Marley.
Did Jay really live here?
Yeah, I think he was here for a little bit.
No.
No way.
Is that why he grew this stupid hair he has now?
Relax.
He learned to run a jet skin with a helmet on.
Shout out to Jay.
His photos are with me.
Yeah.
So the Patrice, like, he would do it, not a different show every time.
It would be the same bits.
Yeah.
But like, his essence was unique every time.
And he was reacting to what was happening every time.
So I saw the bits more than once, but like he was real in between the bits.
You know what I mean?
It didn't feel like he went up there and just pressed play.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's where you lose people.
Because some people, I imagine, come for like the moments in between the written jokes.
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
You know?
Yeah, that's going to make it different every night.
Like when we play live, that's why I like playing like live with a band and stuff.
There's always, you know, it's the same song, but it's different every night.
Different energy every day.
It's different energy.
And then sometimes you hear something that the bass player done that he didn't do yesterday.
And you look at you like, no one recognizes it, but you're like, oh, you're like really jamming.
It's almost like jazz in a way.
Like there's some improv with the tracks a little bit.
Yeah, there's some, yeah, some improv with the tracks, you know, within reason.
How many people will tour, like in the band and everything?
Oh, man.
At its max, there's like, yeah, there was a lot of people.
When I done Royal Abbott Hall, there was like 44 of us or something.
And what other elements are you adding into that live show that make it different and discernible from other like rhyme and hip-hop shows?
Like, probably like the amount of the amount of players.
Right.
Yeah, the amount of players that we had, like, we got a brass section.
Fire street section.
Yo, that literally with hip-hop makes a difference.
It's crazy.
Especially with hip-hop.
Live instruments are so serious.
Because I saw, I think, Jay Z. Jay-Z.
Like, hearing that with an actual whatever the fuck I hear, actually.
He stole it.
Yeah.
Well, I don't know if it's the first time we've done it, but what made me want to play Roy Labbert Hall was I supported Jay-Z at Royal Abbott Hall.
Oh, wow.
And he had an orchestra.
You know what I mean?
Wait, did they lose their shit when you came?
Wait, hold on.
Did they know you were coming out?
Some people probably knew I was coming out.
By supported, he meant like he was the opener for.
And what is it?
Yeah, did they lose their fucking mind?
Yeah, it was mad.
It was good.
Yeah, yeah.
It was like as many Kano fans in there as no, no, no, at that time.
Yeah, that was like 2007.
Wow.
That was.
But what is it?
2004 or 2005?
You put it in?
2005, my album came out.
My first album came out.
And I've done that in 2007.
So yeah, a lot of his audience would have known me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how did you get that look?
I can't remember.
I can't remember.
But he's been, yeah, he's like, he said some nice, you know, words before, like, he knew the stuff and all that kind of shit.
And you guys like hung out afterwards at all?
Like, just seeing each other in the back?
Did you watch him on his wife, or was it?
Oh, he has a whole album talking about it.
He asked Woke of him.
Yeah.
He didn't cheat, bro.
What's the album for then?
I don't know, to make some money, dude.
That's a problem.
They're not artists.
It's just called art.
It's commerce.
That's commerce.
I just wanted to give you the time.
That's it.
She's got an album, too.
That was a nice finesse, though.
We got to give them credit on that.
Like, if you're going to get cheated on, make like tens of millions of dollars.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think most girls would be okay with that.
Oh, that's tens of millions that they got it.
Yeah, yeah.
But I'm so curious.
What did he say to you?
Are you allowed to share?
What did he say to me?
Yeah.
I can't remember.
But when I said he said, no, he said some stuff like just on the radio or whatever it was that I just heard and was like, oh, he's fucked with it, whatever.
Yeah, and I saw him at another show.
I was on a Gorilla's album and we toured.
We done Madison Square Garden.
Yeah, I was just doing like two songs.
But Gorilla's obviously a massive, massive band.
We'd done a whole American tour.
And he came to watch the show.
Wow.
And yeah, I remember he was like side stage and I was about to go up, but it's the fucking scariest thing in the world.
You're about to step up the steps and you know Jay-Z is just sitting there and you're like, yeah, this is crazy.
Did you deliver?
Yeah.
Hey.
Jay said the illest shit to Kevin Hart.
Kevin Hart was doing like Barclays or something like that.
And Jay came to see him and Jay was like, how's it feel?
And Kevin Hart was like, man, it's crazy.
I never thought I'd sell out Barclays.
This is just a great feeling.
And Jay goes, no, how does it feel that I came to see you?
That's crazy.
Okay.
So, so you become a superstar actor, even though you hate acting.
Cheers to that, by the way.
How'd that happen?
Yeah, the time.
I literally saw you say you don't like acting.
Oh, yeah, I gotta stop saying that.
No, no.
I mean it when I say it.
Yo, can I tell you something?
What?
I say this all the time.
And they don't stop offering me roles.
Yeah, yeah.
Have you noticed that?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
What is wrong with you?
You go, I don't want to do it.
Me too.
That is.
You guys are the same level actor.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Same thing.
When he says it, it's kind of endearing.
When you say it feels three lines in the Netflix movie, maybe they'll cut it out.
And he's the star of the biggest show.
This is the same thing.
You have to judge us on a curve.
It's like Celsius, you know.
So you go and do the show.
As you're doing promo for the show, this is an amazing, I like my heart warms watching it.
I think you're on the Big Nasty show, is it?
Okay, probably.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then Mo.
Yeah.
Mo is hilariously.
I came here and the first time I did a show here, Mo opened for me.
Oh, shit.
It was at this tiny called like the Brickyard Comedy Club.
He like DM'd me.
He's like, hey man, can I open?
I go, of course.
Next time I come, I'm doing like this small thing.
I was doing when I was views from the Cesar Son, I was doing the Leicester Square Theater.
So I just DM'd him.
I don't know what the fuck's going on.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm like, hey, man, you want to open for me again?
He goes, oh, I'm a little busy.
And then I look, it's got a fucking stupid star.
So, shout out to Mo.
You put him on.
It's because of you, bro.
It's because of me.
Exactly.
So basically, so they go, so what do you think about like acting?
Like, is it like a cool process?
Do you like it?
And you're like, nah.
And then they go, so you don't like acting?
And you'd be like, nope.
I just loved it.
Like, it's not my favorite thing to do in a day.
Because it's boring, right?
Yeah, yeah.
It's tough.
But here's the thing.
What do you mean by tough?
What?
Is it easy?
No.
It's easy to be bad at it.
I know that.
Yeah, yeah.
It's tough to be, it's tough to make it look like it's easy.
Bro, I'll be honest with you.
When you did the scene in season one where you were crying, when your disabled friend was getting burned to a crisp, oh my God.
Season one for us.
Yeah, the Netflix first is the first season.
He's disabled.
We call it free, yeah.
He's retarded.
Wait, wait, was he Spaz?
Bro, he's a Spaz, bro.
Why was he saying it again?
Frank!
Beyonce has to change it to me.
Frank!
Bro, that word means nothing in the United States.
It's so crazy.
Yeah, I didn't.
Yeah, she didn't need to do it.
She didn't need it.
She's Beyonce.
Bro, that was the name of a smoothie at my place in Florida.
It was the Raz Spaz.
It was the name of like a smoothie.
Who's got more retards in Florida?
Yeah.
It was like a funny name.
And over here, it's like the worst insult.
And but can you call someone retarded here?
Is that okay?
Because that's more clinical.
That's like the science.
That's true.
We don't say that, though.
You don't?
No.
But what if somebody's acting really funny?
What if somebody does something really funny?
Like, they don't go, oh, you're retarded.
And like black people in America, if you're really funny, they just insult you.
Yeah.
Like, this motherfucker, dumb.
Bro, you were stupid.
You were stupid.
I was like, dumb nice.
Cultural Insult Confusion00:08:33
Okay.
So why are we talking about retards?
Because you grew as an actor.
That's what I wanted to do.
You did the scene.
Your friend is getting burned to a crisp, right?
Oh, yes, yes, yeah.
Right.
So you're crying.
Yeah.
So you can cry on cue.
Not like on cue, but it takes a minute to get to that place.
What do you do?
Do you like live on other memories of retarded friends here?
Jesus Christ.
So insensitive.
It's mad because it's like you have to.
And I don't know what you have to do.
I just know what I do because I'm not a trained actor or whatever.
You know what I mean?
And I respect the craft.
I'm like you.
I respect the craft so much that I don't want to act like I know it or like I'm fucking, you know what I mean?
I'm not no trained guy or whatever.
But I feel like it starts way before action, but it's hard to start that process before action because it's like, you know, it is like costumes coming over to fix the hoodie and whatever.
So I like to get like in that instance, I would have liked to get into that seat like a little while beforehand and just like start to get into the zone.
What are you thinking about to make you cry?
He wants cheat codes here.
British women.
Yeah.
Christ, Al.
This guy's an animal over here.
I can't remember what I was thinking about at that time.
But yeah, generally, it won't be like two fat gingers walking into your hotel room searching for dick.
Oi Ziss and Dicken.
Oh, shit.
Okay.
I'm like, give it to my garage.
Okay.
But yeah, it won't be like, you know, the made-up character that's just dying made up.
It's family stuff, right?
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, something like that.
Because you really did.
I watched the BBC one and it felt like you were playing you in season one and two.
And then by the time the Netflix, the whole character was like evolved and you fucking killed it.
I was really impressed.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, I would, I was a bit uncomfortable in the first, because it's the first time I ever done it.
And Jan, Jan, who Dove knows, of course, was the director of the first one.
And I remember we started filming.
We got in like a couple of weeks or whatever.
And then one of the characters broke their arm, which was like great for me because we got some time off.
And then during that time, Jan come and he like he, he said like, wouldn't usually, but he played me some of the scenes back and was like, yeah, he was like, look, I can see you're not really present in this scene.
You're kind of just waiting for your bit kind of thing.
But you got to be present.
You got to listen.
Actions about like listening and stuff like that.
And I was saying to him, like, I was a bit stiff because I didn't want to move because I mic'd up and I didn't want my jacket to rustle on the mic.
I was thinking like it was a...
You're thinking about like the acoustics of it.
Yeah, I'm thinking about the stuff I don't need to be thinking about.
Like an artist or something, like thinking about how it would be for them for their mix.
Yeah, later on.
And he's like, no, no, no, no, it's not.
And, you know, spoke, done some work and stuff.
And then I started to get into it a little bit more, but I think, you know, the Netflix seasons is where I probably start to understand it a little bit more.
Put it this way.
I didn't know how famous a musician you were.
So I was sold on you as being a famous actor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then all of my British friends are like, no, this guy is like the guy in UK hip-hop.
Like, you're the OG.
Like, that's what they're all saying.
Like, this guy started it.
And then obviously I'm starting to look at your music and I'm like, oh, shit.
So he doesn't know how to act.
And I believed it.
And then you did the crying thing.
Yeah.
And I still don't understand it.
Yeah.
Like, you could cry right now if we all did it together.
Just a group cry.
Yeah, just a group cry.
What would the Mandem think about that if we all held hands and cried together?
What would they think?
Would we be allowed in the ends?
It's cool.
But now, what I try to do is kind of like not forget the artist that I am and not try and be like, you know, you're not this anymore.
You're an actor and this is how actors think and whatever.
I approach it like way before getting on set.
It's like with the script.
Just like, how does this feel?
And, you know, and, you know, this doesn't feel right to me.
It's just like critiquing material the way you would critique material, but critique the script that way and critique the character that way.
And once you start going over that, and then you start, you start to really like live, live that person.
You know what I mean?
So now when you're acting it, it's like you are it.
You know?
So yeah, rather than just, all right, this is the scene and now, oh shit, I've got to remember these lines, you know.
I've probably done two months of interrogating these lines before even getting to set, you know?
Did you want the character to evolve at all?
Because it felt like, especially the BBC series, I guess you'll call it one.
Banner four, it was on.
Yeah, but I guess season, yeah, whatever, channel four, not BBC one.
No, it was on channel four, bro.
Yeah, one, two, yeah, they were like, they got more channels.
You just told me it was on BBC four.
That's all you said to me.
Channel four?
Only BBC.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So whatever the British version was, it felt like the character was kind of, it evolved a lot.
Did you do that?
It was kind of a one-dimensional, like he plays kind of the dickhead mean guy, whatever, the hard guy.
And then you're more likable in the Netflix one and that, like, there's a whole different dimension with you in this, you know?
Yeah.
I wouldn't, it's not me that, you know, you know, adds in another character to the show that dies in a fire that I can respond to.
That's, that's not me.
That would be in the writing.
But, but I feel like, you know, the way I try to humanize the character, then they feed into that.
And then they maybe like give you, you know, some more to do.
So yeah, it's like, it's that, but it's kind of, you know, like building upon scenes as well.
Like some scenes might be like, you know, one way on a page, but the way the way we play it.
Yeah, it completely changes it.
Yeah, it might can change it and bring a different, different emotion, if you know what I mean.
And I just, I just wanted to, you know, and I just want like my mates to think that this is like someone we know.
Yeah.
In its whole human complexity.
That's exactly how I feel.
Like you're my absolute favorite character in the show.
And I feel like every single scene, you steal the scene because it's like, it's so authentic.
Like I grew up in a hood.
Like I believe you.
And I'm just saying, how far is the character from the real person?
I'm not there.
I'm not the nah, nah, I'm not.
I haven't got like nine bodies, you know what I mean?
How many?
But now you choose me for two.
A couple.
You know what I mean?
No, no, it's not, it's not me, but in terms of like story-wise, but a lot of it is me in terms of heart, you know what I mean?
Like, how would how would that make me feel?
Like me as a person, you know what I mean?
And I feel like, and I'm, as I said, I'm not no acting expert or whatever, but a lot of people think great acting is being so far removed from the person you are.
But I think it's about bringing the person that you are to this character.
You know what I mean?
Hey, I agree with that, bro.
You're a better actor than all them fucking dorks.
Do you look back at like early seasons when you were a little more green?
On channel four?
Yeah, on back when it was on channel four.
You're really defending a channel that canceled the show, by the way.
To be honest about that, do you look back on it?
Acting Authenticity and Heart00:09:55
Get out of here.
And then Drake swooped in.
Have I watched it back?
And do you ever look at like your choices and scenes and go, ah, I could have done a better choice.
If I could do that now, I would have done it a little different.
I don't do that.
No, like looking back at the seasons, but I do that every single day I go home.
If in the car on the way home, I'm like, fuck, I could have done this or I could have fingered.
And then I go home and then I go in the mirror and I try and like recreate what I did do.
And I'm like, fuck, I should have gave one option like this.
And then it pisses me off.
And then I try and bring that thing into another scene like another day.
You know what I mean?
Ah, interesting.
Forgot who hates hate decking.
You take it very seriously.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Like, you really constantly fucking hate.
This guy's a real artist.
That's what I'm talking about.
I mean that sincerely.
I'm a little disappointed.
You telling me you never put no work in, like in your younger days.
Were you on the road or not?
Like, no.
Statue of the digits is over.
Making it you.
You know nothing about the statute limitations out here.
So if God just said, I'm disappointed, you're not a murderer.
I'm really disappointed in you, bro.
Al did his street time in America.
I'm starting my method process for a fucking 20 years.
Al's got some bodies, bro.
He does.
Mostly fetuses.
Abortions on like that.
Can you get abortions out here in England?
Yeah, we go.
Yeah.
We get out here.
You good?
We go with those on here.
Say what?
You want to pass that over?
Yeah, yeah, but the top boy success.
So that was a yes.
No, I didn't say that.
But why are you proud of this?
Okay.
Al's record in street fights is seven and four.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Whoa.
I literally, I thought it was Frank laughing at you.
Jason, what's up, bro?
About to be eight and four.
Okay, that was the most disrespectful.
He's still laughing.
He's still laughing.
How you got beat up four times, bro?
You're like a journeyman street fighter.
Like, how is that even possible?
Sometimes I fall outside my weight class and I got the rest of me.
Come on, bro.
Okay, do you have a record in street fights?
A record in street fights.
I don't know.
What?
Club fights.
What's my record, Shay?
I don't know.
I'm talking about.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
The winning record.
Yeah.
One.
Go on.
I was going to say.
Four and four.
One L's hit my eyebrow somewhere.
That was one.
Somebody got you.
Yeah.
They hit you with something.
Bouncer, though.
Bouncer.
I don't count.
Fucking bouncers, baby.
Yeah, yeah.
No, not.
No.
Fucking bouncer.
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
I hit butt.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, because normally when I'll do that, it's the end.
But for him, he wear that.
I hit button, and he just went, boom.
And my face just opened up.
I was like, so a headbutt was your move.
Yeah, But he was ready.
Oh, no, yeah, he was ready, ready.
But his forehead was crazy strong.
Ethiopian or something?
What was he like?
He's African for a short.
Nigerian.
He was Nigerian.
He was Nigerian.
Oh, really?
Okay, yeah, yeah.
You gotta be careful.
But long time, long time, long time.
So that's the thing that happens oftentimes when you have like an iconic character.
I guess you're fortunate in a way where you have enough of you in the character.
But I think one of the worst things is being beloved for someone who isn't you at all.
Yeah.
And then being like a constant disappointment to people every time you meet them.
You know, I had a fight the week it came out.
Remember?
Wait, what?
The week top boy came out.
He got in a fight.
That's crazy.
I think it was the second one or whatever it was.
I remember Jonathan, one of my cousins, Jonathan, was saying, Don't go out.
I know you out and you want to celebrate and whatever, but look, people are going to see the character and they're going to want to impress you.
You know what I'm saying?
And I was like, yeah, that didn't sound like, fuck it.
We went out, innit?
Yeah.
It was like, we're out.
And then literally during that night, must have, yeah, guy must have come over and tried to thingy.
And what were you doing, Jonathan?
The toilet.
Look at you.
Big for nothing.
Come back out when it was all done.
What happened?
Keel you off the pavement.
I'll tell you what happened.
White security.
That's what happened.
I'm done with this.
White guys don't take breaks.
Wait a minute.
But did you live up to the reputation in that fight?
Yeah, that's one of the things.
Oh, dude, that's like perfect marketing.
Yeah.
If I'm Netflix, I'm like, holy shit, print this.
Everyone at the bar, I saw Sully because it was real, bro.
But no, it's mad because he's the Sully characters, like, it's almost legendary in the street.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, street dudes, are street dudes even now?
Are they looking at you like he's representing what we live correctly?
Yeah.
Because you were saying that in an interview too, like they wanted to do certain things you didn't think were authentic, and you kind of came up in it.
Yeah.
So I could, yeah, I just couldn't.
There was one thing last season that I just couldn't do.
What?
Oh, can I guess?
Well, Eat Pussy was it?
No, they wanted me to be a part of like calling the police to do something, whatever.
And I was just like, man, I just feel like this is just the wrong move.
Respect.
And it's one of them ones where, like, you've just got to do it.
You were the police.
You were the policeman.
I was just glorifying security guards.
Like, almost like half snitch.
You know what I mean?
Deshane ended up doing like.
Deshane ended up doing like, you know.
Oh, yeah.
In the show, you had like a real problem with it.
Yeah.
So was that originally written for you and then it was switched?
No, it was written for both of us.
And you were like, nah.
And I was like, nah.
So then they made it like I had a real problem with it.
Yeah.
But it was like one of those ones where, you know, we fight a lot on the show to try and like get things changed or how we want it or how we see it.
Keep it authentic.
Yeah.
Could be authentic and just, yeah.
You know what I mean?
Not, I mean, it could be authentic.
Yeah.
Someone in the street snitching or whatever, but I just feel like it went against what I've built up for so yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were the real one for so long, never gonna break.
You have your principles, and then all of a sudden you're calling a copy.
And like I was saying before, it's like, if I knew that was gonna be the case, I would have maybe tried to plant some of those seeds early in.
So when it happened, it would be like, you know what?
There was a little bit of slam about it.
It's almost like Duchesne's character is anything for success.
He wants to win at all costs.
Yeah, exactly.
I can believe it.
He will not sacrifice his character will not sacrifice his ethic.
And that's why it's kind of cool to see the both of you because Duchenne understands that.
That character understands that about your character.
Right.
So he's like, I have to maneuver around certain things knowing that he's going to go wild.
Yeah.
If we break certain codes.
Yeah.
Like that was probably for you.
That was too far.
That was too far.
And it is the reason why we've kind of never seen eye to eye again.
And it carries on in this season.
But it's like, that ain't a turn up on a day thing and just like, I'm not doing that.
It's, you know, you got to do you got to emails and hey, and you know what I mean?
Like phone calls and so not meetings and emails.
I mean, they just don't like the direction of this scene.
You know what I mean?
It's like all that, but we've got to fight for, we've got to fight for what we believe and we fight for these characters because it means so much.
Like I'm the one that's going to have to deal with the conceptual station and some guy saying like, yo, man, that's for you, Snitch, bro.
You fucked it up, man.
You know what I mean?
We used to love the show.
All that shit.
You know what I mean?
And it's not just for ego.
Like, I didn't want to be a snitching thing.
It's just I didn't think it was this character.
Like it wasn't.
And I just felt like I knew him too well.
So then, yeah, they ended up changing it.
But it's hard work sometimes to get things changed.
It makes sense because you're right.
But that decision changes the entire show.
Yeah.
The show is never this.
Gonna go here and now it's going here because you fought them and it was right, but they don't know that.
They're just like, This motherfucker is changing everything.
I gotta change every episode from now on because this guy wants to send emails basically.
And you're right, but they're not gonna see that right away necessarily.
It's gonna take a lot, yeah.
And then maybe in like a year, they'll be like, Nah, you were right.
It's a pain in my ass, but you were right.
So, the thing is, like, what battles to fight, and you know what I mean?
Speaking of that, and like, maybe I want to fight everyone or whatever.
But it's like it's like having a wife, no, you just pick them, bro.
100%, you know, but it is difficult, man.
And I was talking to, I remember speaking to Igis one time, and it was like, I was saying, Is it always like this?
Remember, that's the only thing I've done.
You know, I shot a film earlier this year, but that was something, but up until that point, like it was so boy.
So, I'm thinking, like, is it always a fight?
Is it always this?
Is it there?
And people say, like, yo, this type of show is where you don't know what you gotta say, dog.
Yeah, yeah, they trust you, they trust you enough, they trust the character, the actors enough to be like, Yo, I'll let them make decisions and trust that we can rewrite the show to make it work.
It's not easy, but yeah, they'll let them.
I wonder if I wonder if like the network knows how outside they are of this culture.
So, they're already like, Listen, we have almost zero connection to what's really going on over here.
So, if we it up, it's on us.
Yeah, I'm curious.
Like, if they were writing a sitcom about like a regular family, they could take whatever fucking liberties they want.
They could be, listen, that's what the dad would say.
I'm sorry, I got a family exactly.
But some Rich Hollywood motherfuckers are making a show about the hood in England.
Yeah, they can't exactly tell you, well, it's snitching time.
Trusting Character Decisions00:03:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
And yeah, like I would recently, I'll be calling, like, there was in, uh, I think I was in prison at the beginning of the first Netflix season or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, so like certain things were happening.
Then I'll be calling my guys in prison where, like, if this happened, what would it be?
Oh, wow, you know what I mean?
And he's really instant violence.
Like, that would you would have to bang out no matter how if it was three of them or fight, like, this is such a violation, it requires this, and whatever.
And then I'll have to go back with that.
So, it's like you have to like, I, yeah, Al, because he put a lot of black people in jail at his job.
A single black person just sell out, bro.
Remember, you tackled that black guy when he was just trying to be free.
You were a court officer and you got injured tackling a guy.
He was white.
Swear to God.
Swear to God, he was white.
And he tore your ACL, you bump.
You couldn't play D on the white guy.
You got to juice my white.
All right, guys, we're going to take a break for a second because some of y'all falling asleep playing your video games, you nerds, and you need to stop doing that.
Your teammates rely on you.
You're out there playing the Fortnite, the fucking other ones.
I don't know.
I got a wife.
I can't play video games anymore.
Okay.
But if I want to stay up all night so she could yell at me, I'm taking gamer sucks.
Gamer sucks has got your back.
I'm telling you, I could go through all the reasons why you look at this.
You look at this right here and you look at the design on it.
You're like, that's not healthy.
Yeah.
It is the best energy that you could possibly get.
I know it looks like candy.
It's not.
It's going to keep you up and it's not going to kill your soul.
This is good.
Neutropics.
Nootropics.
Zero calories.
Zero calories.
Vegan.
Probably.
Keto.
That's for sure.
All that.
All that.
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Get your energy up and destroy just in the video game.
That's it.
Now, let's get back to the show.
Also, guys, bring back a poo.
The album.
First comedy album is available pretty much anywhere you can listen to music except Spotify and Sirius because they're in a lawsuit about royalties like some little bitches.
But everywhere else, please make sure you cop, support, spread the word, man.
I'm really proud of this.
It's a unique experience from the special we put out because this is all from one night, one show.
So there's crowd work stuff mixed in there.
Like it's all combined into one unique experience.
Go check it out.
Bring back a poo.
It's on YouTube music.
It's on Amazon Music.
It's on Apple Music.
Bring back a poo, spread the word.
We're doing big things.
Also, if you want to get tickets to live shows, I got Orlando the 9th and 10th of September at the improv in West Nyack, upstate New York.
I'm at Levity Live, September 15th through 17th, September 29th through October 1st.
I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Good nights.
Get your tickets for those shows and a bunch more at akashsing.com.
Now let's get back to the show.
Okay.
Fear of Disrespect Explained00:03:21
What is when you talk to your boys who are maybe still in jail or whatever?
Have you ever done analysis on like this code, this code that exists in the street?
Have you ever like just sat there and thought like why these things exist?
Like whether you agree with them or not, and whether like you can like come up with understanding for some of these decisions.
You know, like I understand like why you need to be so severe in certain circumstances because like these people can't go to the cops, right?
Like this is, I guess, this exists with gangs, this is mafia, exists with anything, right?
But like, have you ever really analyzed code and like asked them like, well, why do I have to kill these people?
Like, would this be bad for business?
They're like sat down and just said, like, why?
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Real white question.
Yeah, I'm curious.
Yeah, real white question.
It is, but it's like prison shows for this reason because all the rules go away, right?
And then a whole new set of rules are developed.
And these are the rules that like humans really exist by.
Yeah.
Right?
Which is like fear, authority.
It's like Hammurabi's code.
Power.
You fuck with me.
I'm going to fuck you up.
Something's happening.
Yeah.
There's no turn the cheek.
Yeah.
Nothing.
But I think if you're probably in jail and you've been sitting down for a long time, you might have a different answer to those questions than you know, the person on the outside.
Or if you were speaking to your, you know, yourself 50 years ago.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
You would have still made that decision.
But I know people that are like, no matter, no matter what, no matter what was, what the violation was that put you in jail, you know, how valid that was and whatever.
There will come a day in jail where you question, I didn't need to do that.
Could I have done it a different way?
Definitely.
You know what I mean?
But that takes sitting down on it and analyzing it and thinking about over and up.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And kind of like changing as a person and growing up.
You know what I mean?
Like kids just wouldn't have a lot of shit because they don't, you know, they just, they just can't take disrespect in that way.
You know what I mean?
It's just like any small violation is as a kid, you don't know how fragile life is.
You don't know it can go away anymore.
Yeah, but sitting down for, you know, your, your, what's my guy?
I think he's almost 15 years into his sentence or whatever.
Like, I bet he looks at it differently.
You know, the fear of disrespect and how that will be viewed.
I think that's always prevalent, right?
It's like someone disrespected me.
It seems almost catastrophic in reaction.
This person disrespected me.
Now nobody will respect me.
I have to do something or else everyone will stop respecting me.
Yeah.
I don't know if that's actually how humans exist.
But it seems to be the code that you have to live by.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, especially in those circumstances.
Yeah.
So I would make certain decisions for the character that I would not accept this.
And this happening to me is the worst thing in the world.
And it must be dealt with immediately.
Prison Life Perspective Shifts00:02:19
You know what I mean?
That might not be how I would see it.
But the character.
Just going to see it.
Yeah.
And that's it.
And even if it means losing money, you know, fucking bad for business.
Doesn't matter.
Getting arrested.
You know what I mean?
It's thing.
But the complexity comes is like when you see my character with his daughter and how he wants to spend more time with her, but then does things every day that would take away that time.
It's like, that's the fight.
You know, I feel like for the last two seasons, he's been, you know, am I, you know, what do I want?
Am I in one foot and one kid?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, kind of like, yeah, a little bit.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
But uncompromising in his, you know.
I love that shit.
Here's a question.
You may or may not have allegedly lived a life where you did some crazy stuff.
We don't know what it wasn't this guy.
No, you weren't this guy.
No, I'm not saying you were this guy, but there's always a path you can take where you can keep going and get crazier and crazier, or you can be what you become, which is clearly an evolved, thoughtful, like artist.
What veered you this way?
Yeah, did you have a moment where you're like, if I go through with this, my life is very different?
No, I never really.
Yeah, I was never like that deep where it was like, you know, at that type of crossroad, you know?
But I know many people that were, and I think had like real big potential and kind of went the other way.
I don't know if it's a decision to go the other way or just you just, that's what the way the current takes you, you know what I mean?
And it's too far to come back.
But that's always a shame like when that happens.
Did that also keep you from getting, you know, you said you didn't do much.
Did that keep you from doing much?
I'm seeing people kind of potential and then it's nobody gets to see it.
I think once you, me, are so consumed with the art that you're creating and so occupied, you know, all of your time and whatnot, and surround yourself with like-minded people that want to, you know, do this thing for a living, there's no real room for the other avenue.
Brixton vs Global Fame00:15:59
You know what I mean?
Once you see an opportunity, passion is just connection to what you're creating.
Yeah, that's just passion.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously much different circumstances.
I grew up with suburb kids, but I see grown adults now who don't have a passion and they just seem so lost in drinking white.
Passion could change the course of anyone's life.
Not just in art or whatever.
Yeah.
Like anyone's life.
Have you pursued other types of art?
Obviously acting and music, but like, have you experimented with like painting or sculpting, anything like that?
No, when I was gay, bro.
No.
He's an artist, bro.
But it's this guy talking to me.
Have you ever worked with watercolors before?
Watch his instant.
Watch his instant.
Watch.
He's going to say no.
No, no, no.
Tell me.
Tell me.
Fuck that.
Dude, that's what I'm talking about.
Come on.
About to get dumped talking about watercolors, bro.
He's not an ADM.
That's a fucking question, dude.
But no, I did actually let as a kid still.
Fuck y'all.
As a kid, when he was a little bit gayer.
As a kid, everybody does arts and characters.
I went to college for it as well.
For art?
Thank you.
Yeah, art and graphics.
Don't let people know that, man.
Come on.
I can see this.
This man's an artist.
He certainly can't be out here going to fucking art school.
Come on.
He's like Tupac, bro.
He can do everything.
Okay, okay.
It said that you're good at soccer as a kid or football as a kid.
This is true or this is it.
What do you mean it?
It's I don't know what gender it is.
What's soccer?
Say again.
What's soccer?
Football.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
It was just called football.
And then we won a war.
And now it's called soccer.
Okay.
No, no, football.
Football, as you said.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And why are you such a big Liverpool fan?
You came in here today and you were like, I love you.
No, I didn't say I'm big, but he asked me straight away.
You'll never walk alone, bro.
Yeah, yeah, that's us.
You're in Liverpool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You should support West Ham.
Okay, but then we leave.
But why?
Do you know what?
I think West Ham weren't really the seem to support back then.
And I was following my older cousins who was big John Barnes fans.
And he was like the fucking black player, superstar, best player in the country, played for Liverpool.
So I thought of that.
But West Ham didn't really have the same kind of player I could identify with.
You're black before you're from West Ham.
Yeah, back in the day, like known as quite as a racist team and all that kind of shit.
So not a lot of black people supported West Ham, even though we're from around the corner.
Yeah.
You know, but a lot of people support Arsenal because of Ian Wright.
I don't know if you know Ian Wright, but like legendary footballer in this country as well.
Black person.
So we kind of like follow the black people.
But now it's different.
Like now there's like loads of black players in Spanish.
Yeah, mostly black people, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Athletics tends to go that way.
Why do you say that?
It's not.
Cream rises to the top.
Now, David Beckham.
Right?
That's not a question.
I started with, I started there.
What did I say about David Beckham?
East Londoner.
Yep.
Right?
Uncircumcised.
We don't know, maybe.
Probably.
Probably.
Did you say so?
If you go by the numbers.
You see it.
Okay.
Say again.
Have you seen it?
Through the shorts once.
I thought I saw Hood.
The print.
I thought I saw Hood one time through the shorts.
I was like, oh, my man's uncut.
Okay.
So objectively very handsome athletic guy.
Voice bitch made a little bit, right?
Like, it is weird, right?
It is when, like, because I probably watched him for a decade.
Disconnect.
And then I heard him talk and like Minnie Mouse is talking about football game.
Oh, I did my bitch to kick it around.
Right?
Like, Mike Tyson.
Say again?
Mike Tyson.
Come on, bro.
Yeah, but he doesn't look like Mike.
Like, Mike can talk like that.
Like, nobody's ever done their Mike Tyson impression to Mike Tyson.
Because Mike will kill you.
Yeah, Jamie's not doing too much.
Nobody's doing it too Mike.
On stage.
No, Too Mike's face where he can actively kill you.
Where he can grab you.
There's no way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, but what is the cause of that?
Is there like a, is there like lead in the water?
Like, what happened back in the day to make such a perfect man talk like that?
He's a perfect man now.
Stop it, Alan Sir.
He's great.
Name one English woman as good looking as David Beckham.
You saying he got Victoria?
Oh, God.
No, I mean, Victoria's beautiful.
Victoria's beautiful.
She ain't no David Beckham.
Yeah, you're kind of right.
David Beckham globally beautiful.
Victoria Beckham, English beautiful.
No, Victoria Beckham beautiful.
Okay, this might be like a question I can't ask, but I do need to ask it because we're here.
I have to.
I didn't know the queen got massive jogs.
What?
That's wild.
That's wild.
I did not know that.
I did not know that.
I need to see a picture.
No, but seriously, there's an old, if you look at old pictures of the queen, she's built crazy fat tips in her dude.
No, there are.
The fucking dairy factory is inside that woman, dude.
For real.
She puts Nancy Pelosi to shampoo.
She has a joint or just she was okay.
She was fine.
They're still fucking inbred, right?
They're all like sisters and shit that are having kids together, right?
But those bosoms, bro.
Oh, she got the retarded tits.
Bro, let me tell you, spazz the fuck out.
Down Central Titan.
Spazz the fuck out.
Let's go.
No, You got to pull it up because it is one of the most shocking things.
I understand why she's on the money.
She's Queen Elizabeth, right?
I understand why she's on the money.
Queen Victoria, no.
Well, Queen Victoria.
I thought you're going back.
How far back are we going, bro?
Queen Elizabeth fat tits.
Yes.
That's not going to give us what we need.
That we Google.
Yeah.
Big old German.
Big old German.
She's German, right?
That kind of.
Isn't she German?
Yeah.
Look at her.
Autobonds.
Yeah, look it up.
Yo, I'm trying to pull it up, bro.
She put Brits.
Okay.
Wait, what is he typing in?
He just put Queen Elizabeth.
Have you ever looked up tits on the internet before?
What?
You think it's just going to pop up automatically?
Yeah.
No.
Just put Queen Elizabeth Young fat fucking knockers.
That's as good as you get.
Fat fucking knockers.
Hold on.
You never Googled before.
Come on, come on, come on, come on.
Can I see Google?
Let me show you how to get it up.
We're Googling it.
I mean, look at that.
She's got the sash.
It's like busting at the seams.
Seat built a few.
Those don't look like Pelosi's, to be honest.
No, no, I'm telling you, I'm going to show you.
There's one where she's on a balcony and she looks disabled.
It's not going to come up here because you're Googling it here.
Exactly.
Oh, that's right.
They block it.
Yeah, probably.
Whoa.
Do you think they have that kind of control?
The English family?
You better watch out.
How do people feel about the English family here?
I don't understand royalty that much because we don't have it back home.
What we do is we like make families royal in a way.
The Kardashians.
Kardashians.
We did it with the Kennedys.
We did it with the maybe like the Rocket fell off, dude.
The what?
The Carters.
The Carters.
They were the Smiths.
The Smiths were a royalty.
And then what happened to Will Smith, obviously, you saw that, right?
Oh, the Smith.
Yeah, oh, man.
Isn't it sad, right?
What, the Will Smith fiend?
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't fuck with it, though.
No, no, no.
Nothing.
We don't fuck with it.
But I mean, like, what happened to him as a man?
Like.
Yeah, it's my.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you've heard about what happened, right?
What happened to him?
Yeah.
Outside of the thing, the Oscars film.
Well, no, he slapped.
He slapped her, but like he, what he has to go through, what he has to end up with.
Oh, about the red table and talking about the what does he have to go through?
Well, he has to watch his wife get her fanny rinsed.
Bro, that's part of his life.
That's insane.
Nigga took a deep breath.
Right?
I didn't want to act again anyway.
Ain't nothing enough.
He took a deep breath through his whole career.
I've been briefed my whole career.
We're in that front of the yard, man.
No, no, but that is what they say.
Jade is a witch.
That is one of the rumors that's going about.
Yeah, that was.
What is it?
Oh, yeah, please.
Can I see those huge fat ones?
So that's crazy when you think about that.
Don't they drink milk in a bag?
Guys, that's crazy.
They drink milk in a bag.
That bag is made after her fucking sis.
Did they drink milk in the wood?
Milk in a bag.
You know what I mean?
They give you the milk.
In a bag.
Where is that?
Where do they do this?
This is in France.
Two years ago.
We place the bag in your own.
Do you know what Americans do, though?
What do we do?
Anything in Europe is England.
London.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Even smaller.
Yeah, enough.
The Chateau Versailles.
Dude, when you guys elected Hitler, it was one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
It's so nice.
London is like the New York of Europe.
Yeah.
And New York is a lot of people.
But when we talk about it, America, we know that we know the different stuff.
Oh, come on, bruv.
It's just New York and then everything else.
No, yeah.
Okay, what about LA?
Everywhere.
Everywhere.
We know everything.
We know everything America.
I mean, unless you're watching WTM.
What about Houston?
I've been to Houston.
But do we know it?
Do like the average English person know Houston?
Cleveland.
They might know.
Cleveland.
Nobody knows Cleveland.
We barely know Cleveland.
They got Beyoncé.
Maybe from LeBron or something.
But like I'm saying, there's cultural nuance to America, too.
Like if you go up to what is it, Newcastle?
They would know it through music.
Yeah, probably less film.
Films probably like more LA or New York or whatever.
We know the difference.
But Americans, they're just like, it's London.
I've seen Americans come on stage in other cities and see London and say that.
So we've, we've, we've, you know, like, uh, our education sucks.
Yeah, we don't do geography.
Here's the thing.
It's not only that, it's just like we don't need to know about it.
Exactly.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Like people like in like Sweden and shit, they'll get upset.
They'll say, America, you can't even point out Sweden on a map.
And it's like, we don't need to.
Like, they'll flew you.
I'll get that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
With a plane.
You built an IQ.
You said Brooklyn.
Exactly.
That's what we need to know.
Like, Sweden, they need to know about Americans.
The way they see the rest of the world is probably how London sees the rest of the country.
Exactly.
If you know what I mean.
Exactly.
Yeah, you got to know about us, but we don't got to know about it.
You don't need to know.
Yeah.
But it's nice to know.
Yeah, but you need to know about Birmingham, those fucking inbred yokels.
Jeez.
Yo, why you got to talk shit about Birmingham, bro?
Because I bombed there one time.
Obviously.
I'm fine.
Call that your London too.
Okay.
I'm going to use all these letters.
I ain't nigga friends with Spanish.
Wow, boy.
So, okay, so yes, we're a little arrogant in America.
A little?
But, but.
He's a New Yorker, so he's supremely arrogant.
But it's fire.
New York is fire.
I know you do.
I like New York.
Yeah, I know.
He's not a new thing he do.
I couldn't see me moving to America, but if it had to be, it would be New York.
Exactly, bro.
A lot of people go to LA, obviously, especially like actors I know and shit.
LA, but you never gave it.
Nah, nah.
Sometimes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sometimes it happens.
But in New York, though, what are you talking about?
I've never seen you improv and yes and that well as you being like, yeah, yeah, sometimes.
Yo, sometimes that is happening.
That does happen.
And that's where you would go.
Yeah.
Okay, but New York is also great, too.
Do you want some more rum out?
I'll finish that whole shit.
That was full.
Come on, bro.
Literally 10 minutes ago.
I've got another.
Hold on.
We need to do that.
We need to get Kano a little bit more rum.
Can you stop hogging the fucking rum over there?
What type of rum is that?
Hang on, my friend.
What do you mean?
Yeah, what do you mean?
Stop.
That's not what you wanted to know.
You asked what type of rum it was.
And then when he was like, what do you mean?
You realized that was the dumbest question ever.
And then you were like, wait, is it yours?
I assumed it was Jamaican rum, but I just wanted to know if he's affiliated with the British.
Ah, yeah, okay.
Be careful, bro.
That shit will get you duppied.
Oh, yeah.
He's been learning all the English slang.
He's been learning all the British slang.
Well, going, what have you learned?
What have you learned, mate?
Dude, I made this girl suck on my skang the other night.
That's not.
What?
That's not how that works.
That's not what a skang is.
I never heard of that before.
You never cocked back your skang, dude?
Yeah.
No, I never heard of the skang.
That's a gun.
Some people call it that.
Such a dumb.
You know what I mean?
We've been straight out of him, MB.
No, skank, skang.
It's gun.
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, your accent is a little more posh than mine.
Mine is more.
He's not from the streets.
Yes, what ends?
Where did you grow up, man?
Say again?
What ends?
Burnt.
I love that.
Okay.
What is the most thorough area of London?
Like right now, toughest area of London.
Where's good?
Who knows?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Like, doesn't take no shit from nobody outside of Buckingham Palace.
Yeah, those guys are scared.
Buckingham Palace does not, they don't give a fuck.
They don't laugh at all.
No, no, there's a lot of people.
That is hard.
Definitely.
The East?
Still the East, bro?
No, but East Wiley.
Really?
Are you from East?
Is that why you're saying that?
Yeah, basically.
What about Shortitch?
They got girls.
No, they got girls that aren't pet hair out there, bro.
That's East.
That's East?
That's EC, East Central.
That's different.
Yeah.
Jason, which area?
I'm not from London.
So you know best?
Eli.
Eli.
That's West London, yeah.
West is crazy.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
Houseden, big Jamaican community in Hausden.
Yeah, like.
Oh, big.
I feel like the area that most people knew from outside of the country was like Brixton, Hillary.
Bristol.
But I heard that's gentrifying.
Yeah.
Like, crazy.
What makes them tough?
They're looking at each other with toothpicks and shit like that.
This guy is crazy.
That's what they do now.
No, it is a difficult thing for us to wrap our heads around the stabbing thing.
Because even in New York, we didn't stab.
We would cut it.
Yeah.
Buck 50.
Yeah.
But the stabbing thing.
But that is cruel.
That is a cruel thing to do.
Yeah.
Very, very hands-on in it.
Very.
And also, it's like, can I be honest with you?
You would drive-by like a gentleman.
But can I, can I, I, if, if we're being honest here, I think that we don't stab in New York, and I'm being 100% serious when I say it, is because we value our sneakers.
And I, and I being dead serious.
No, Because you guys will put anything on your feet, I noticed.
But like in New York, we care.
And the idea that I could have like a brand new pair of sneakers that I really value, and then somebody's O positive is dripping all over it.
You know how hard it is to get blood out of the business?
Bro, you can't get blood out of sneakers, bro.
You can't get blood out of sneakers.
That doesn't help resale, you think?
What the blood?
Sneaker Culture Safety First00:02:42
Crep protect.
What's that?
Crep protect.
Is that like a French thing?
It's like a sneaker.
I can't believe I just said sneaker, but what do you call them?
Trainers.
A trainer protector.
This sounds so ugly.
That's how you spend money on them.
Trainer.
Trainer.
That's what you wear to the gym is your trainer.
Yeah.
Yeah, right?
Crep protect.
There you go.
Crep protect.
And that stops blood from getting on it.
Yes.
It's a waterproofer.
Oh, waterproofer.
Yeah, it's just obviously, yeah.
That's so mind-blowing to these fucking English.
What?
They're like, oh, there's a waterproofer for sneakers.
Well, no, they have water all the time.
It's raining all the time.
Yeah, I know.
But that's another thing.
Don't you feel like Americans have started to dress more like us anyway?
Yo, can I?
No, no.
Can I be honest?
No, All you wear is European.
All you wear is European anyway.
Huh?
You duffy boy.
What are you talking about?
Come on, Duffy boy.
He creates style.
No, I don't think you never wore a 3XL white tee?
That's style, bro.
That's fashion.
Exactly.
You know.
We create style and then you guys dress like us 10 years later.
That's what happens.
None of that.
We create product today.
I'll give you credit.
That was a good counter.
I'm important pocketbooks.
What?
The man handbags and sidebags.
I'll give you credit for that.
Because that is very soft.
But outside of that, like, our fashion is.
Okay, hold on one second.
Can we just acknowledge American designer?
Oh, what's American design?
Well, you would you echo me with echo.
You don't with echo?
You're at Belme.
You're at Balmos.
Nah, we wear it.
We got to make it.
We wear American brands like Adidas.
You know what I mean?
No, what do we got?
What do we want?
I make the Jordan one.
That's Jordan's.
Now, y'all like Jordans, bro.
Yeah, I don't wear Jordan, but we wear Jordans here, yeah.
I mean, you know, British people wear Jordan.
Yeah, they wear Jordans.
Yeah, heavy, propo.
No, I think you guys, this is what I think is happening.
And I love Toronto, but I think Toronto is often fighting for its identity.
And I think it used to be like this version of New York.
And I think now it's become a version of London.
Like the slang even is adopted from London.
Like, it's not exactly adopted in London because they're adopting it from like Caribbean and African influences.
And those people are there.
But I think that London probably did that first and gave like, not gave a platform, but there was a platform for these like Caribbeans and Africans to like become influential in their vocabulary would be influential and then people would start to adopt it.
Yeah.
Adopted London Slang Origins00:03:40
Did Americans like not really respect Canadians?
It's not, it's respect is the wrong thing.
But not before Drake.
They start looking for it and now they do their own thing.
Before Drake, what was there?
Yeah, that's the thing.
It wasn't like cool.
Yeah.
It wasn't cool.
You can be cool to be Canadian.
It's hard to be safe and cool, right?
There's nothing safe is usually cool.
Like Top Boy is cool because it's not safe at all, right?
The hood is cool because it's not safe.
Mafia is cool because it's not safe.
And Canada, in its essence, is a safe place where people care about one another and they're like really genuinely concerned about people's welfare.
So I think it's hard for people to go, well, I want to look up and adopt that.
You know what I mean?
Like even Jamaican dancing, it's not safe.
Like there's a guy like jumping from a balcony on a girl.
Daggering is awesome.
I want to do that.
So bad.
Is that a thing here?
Do you want to go to the daughter?
Is there a dance tonight?
I thought you were going to ask Shane.
Shane, don't dagger me.
Don't dance tonight.
But they rave late, though, man.
We're jet lag, bro.
That's the only raise I really want to go to.
Yeah.
But it's too late.
Like, I'm not really with the West End clubs and all that.
I would rather go to like the dancehall clubs.
Right.
Let's do it.
You got to be going out at two.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm going to get him back crazy late.
But if you want to go, there's something on tonight.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
You got to watch him back out.
It's going to be so funny.
It's not like yo, so you can.
Yeah.
Yeah, you stay home.
You'll just be in the way.
But I saw, they treat it like WWE, dude.
I saw a guy bring out the article.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the props and that's crazy.
Yeah, no, they go.
They go hard.
Yeah, they go super hard.
It's amazing.
I don't get it.
Maybe you're just having a bad day with your girl and you're like, let's go dancing.
And then you just beat the shit out of her for an entire song.
Yeah, yeah.
That's a great idea.
Yeah, it's like the OJ dagger.
What did he say?
It's like OJ daggering.
OJ is the original.
He's the original shit.
Okay.
Listen, we know we don't have your whole night here, so we have to respect you.
We got to go dagger soon.
We have to get a nice meal in our system so that we can dagger all night long.
Right?
Oh, happy Jamaican Independence Day, by the way.
Oh, yeah.
Cheers.
Cheers, bro.
Cheers.
Yo, isn't it fire?
Fist with the fist.
Catch you.
Big up.
Isn't it fire when you just kick those Brits out of your fucking country?
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Why did India do that?
Scotland didn't.
You say what?
Scotland didn't.
Detroit.
They want to.
Yeah, they tried.
Do we want to?
Yeah.
Independence.
But don't you think that they didn't even really fight for India that hard?
They were just like, ugh, like don't you think that a little bit?
Like, because if you look at the history, that's more like, yeah, right?
And then, like, is that what you say to convince yourself it's okay to not have freedom?
Like Scotland, they fought for it, but then India, I think they realized they're like, yeah, you know, yeah, you keep telling yourself whatever.
Because you guys keep wanting more.
Like, you keep coming back to India.
You're like, I love, you know, England.
I love it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love it.
Come, please be daddy again.
Daddy.
Is that what's happening?
Exactly.
Don't you have to say that?
No, I think you came here and you went through the whole TSA shit.
What did they make you say?
Actually, it went right through.
Stop it.
They literally, they go.
They said thank you.
That's what they would make you say.
No, that didn't happen.
They were like, are you going to bomb in Birmingham again?
No, they thought I was going to bomb London.
That is true.
You have to be very careful.
Yeah, they were worried about bombing of a different kind.
Yo, I'm curious.
Was Drake ever on set during the filming of Top Boy?
Top Boy Accents and Drama00:02:35
No, I've never seen him on set.
What's up with that?
He's busy, bro.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When's the last time I see Drake?
He came to the read-through.
You know, you do the read.
Yeah.
You've done a film.
Did you do a refru?
No, they didn't invite him.
Wasn't invited.
He doesn't know how to read.
What is that like?
I don't really do refus either.
Yeah.
But you're invited.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You got to go.
Yeah, but he came to the refru.
Came to the refru.
I'm shocked he hasn't come on shit like that.
He doesn't want?
I'm shocked he hasn't been like a small character on the show or something like that, just for fun.
Because he can act.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think there was some talk of it one time, but I don't know.
Do you feel like it might show something?
Yeah, like when Ed Sheeran was in Game of Thrones and we were like, that's when you started to suck.
I love fucking Ed Sheeran.
Yeah.
And he could body the role if you want to Drake or whatever, but it's still a bit more difficult.
Drake's top away.
Even like even if fucking DiCaprio is one of my favorite actors, even if he was in Top Boy, it wouldn't take away from us outsiders almost look at it like a fucking documentary.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like, at least in the States, we're like, I know this isn't real, but it's cool.
A lot of people compare it to The Wire.
I don't know if you saw The Wire.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So like for me, I'm watching it.
I'm like, oh my God, this is The Wire.
Yeah.
In that here's this like niche part of this country that has this incredibly authentic, pure, grimy experience.
And I didn't even know it existed.
And I think that's what a lot of us, when we saw Top Boy for the first time, were like, wait, what the fuck is going on?
Like, this is crazy.
So putting anybody in that that's already famous to us takes you out of the world.
Yep.
100%.
So how is it with like Method Man in the wire?
Or is Method Man no?
No, no, that fucked it up.
Oh shit.
Bro, when I found out Idris Elba had an accent, I was kyke.
Wow.
I was like, what is this fucking corny shit?
Well, we didn't know Idris like that.
I never, I thought he was American.
Because he was in America forever.
He was a bouncer.
He wasn't a huge star here.
Yeah.
That's a good idea.
He's a bouncer of the comedy store, right?
No, Kenny Lines Comedy Company.
He grew up two roads away from me.
Oh, wow.
I didn't know.
A state agent told me when we fucking sold the house that he sold Idris out to.
I was like, oh, shit.
Wow.
But I just thought Idris was American actor in the wire or whatever.
But you're saying, oh, so when you saw the shows, you might fuck it up.
I still like Method Man on the Wire, but it did take me out a bit.
What was interesting about your show, though, when it was on Channel 4.
Method Man Wire Critique00:03:23
Yeah.
It was really a lot like The Wire, and I think it's done a good job of becoming its own show.
You arguing with the writers probably helped that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And I think maybe people's a little bit nervous of it going to Netflix thinking going to try and appeal to a wider audience and fuck up the show.
Wider audience, you know what I'm saying?
Exactly.
But no, it's good that he's remain some kind of authenticity and whatnot.
Yeah, okay.
Listen, we're going to a rave.
Yes, I bet you don't.
I would.
I would.
If you took me, I would go.
All right.
I'm not going to knock on the door.
Are you daggering?
I'm practicing.
I'm practicing.
Exactly.
Yeah, he does.
This is how you do it, right?
Let me just try it one time.
I'm just nervous.
I'm going to get there.
I'm not going to know how to do it.
Can we just practice?
Well, do you know how to jump?
Yeah, I do.
Okay.
Off the stairs.
If you know how to jump and you know how to spot a woman, you have to ask a woman if she would like to dagger.
Yes, in 2022, yeah.
Now, the fact that may I dagger you.
Yes.
May I have this dagger?
May I have this dagger?
Yeah, exactly.
And you're crazy.
And then you jump off the roof and pile drive her into the dance chair.
Yeah, it's cool.
Okay, so we hit this rave tonight.
Okay, we will get it on, get our dagger on.
Not all of us, Al.
But there might be a white girl.
I mean, I think white girls are adopted, you know, Jamaican culture here, right?
Adele, I'm sure.
Adele.
They're the ones that they're the real ones daggering.
Yeah.
Wait, white girls.
Even in Jamaica.
The Galdum?
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Say this again because this is hot off.
I just lost interest in this thing completely.
Akash hates white women because he loves them.
Yeah, you see them in Jamaica, in the real places.
Whoa.
Dancing in the middle.
Is it like a study abroad thing?
Really dangerous.
Japanese women as well.
What are they?
But they like, you know, like, so like the culture that they've just, they've just bought in, and it's like, it's, it's crazy.
Is that what you told yourself?
You know, they go there and pay for Jamaican men to fuck the shit out of them.
Yeah, that's who he is.
Is that true?
Hell yeah.
Pay?
When Japanese women do that?
And white women.
Really?
How do you dagger a Japanese woman?
It's like hibachi, actually.
Yeah.
They call it hibachi.
I'm pretty sure.
How is it done?
Like, because the great thing about a Jamaican woman at a dagger rave is that they have some cushion.
They're like a Chesterfield, right?
So it's like you can jump on them and there's going to be a thing.
But if you jump on the Japanese woman, she actually dives herself, does it herself?
What do you mean?
It's a bit of a kamikaze.
Oh my god.
Oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
That's your career.
That's my career.
But no, isn't some ass required?
Is it like, aren't these like these tricks?
You know, is it?
There's caked up Asians now.
Wait, what?
Yeah, that's a thing.
They've come out with like a new update, I think.
But there's like...
I ain't see that.
No, it's a thing.
You haven't seen this?
Japanese girls with ass?
It's a new thing.
Hold on.
Show me.
No, they call them rice cakes.
Kamikaze Stunt Career Risk00:01:17
I'm being serious.
No, I'm being serious.
It's a real thing.
We were still in the show.
They're five minutes too long.
That's what happens.
Okay, listen.
We're ending the show.
Rice cakes.
All right.
Listen, I just want to say thank you so much.
For the first time?
For the third time.
Thank you so much.
Yo, Kano and the Bella, the motherfucking goat, the originator, the pioneer.
Thank you so much for taking the time, brother.
I really mean it.
And congrats on everything.
And I really appreciate your attention to your artistry.
And I think you should keep doing it that way.
And it makes a difference.
Thank you.
Maybe it doesn't make a difference to the casual, but to the person that appreciates what you do, it is distinct.
Yes.
And it's worth fighting for.
Yeah, man.
I appreciate that so much.
My brother.
Thank you so much, man.
Thank you very much.
I respect you guys.
I respect what you do.
I know what happened with the special.
I bought the special.
Let's go.
Respect to it.
It was crazy coming in here and being introduced to everyone like I didn't know their fucking names because I was like, I was like, oh, yeah, oh, gosh, gosh.