Louis C.K. and Joe Lisz dissect the $75 million success of Louis's independent special "Infamous," contrasting it with Hollywood's wasteful models while praising "Top Gun: Maverick" over "Dune." They explore Louis's controversial views on homosexuality as a choice, his Mexican heritage, and his strategy to bypass Ticketmaster fees using E-Tix. The conversation highlights the sustainability of direct fan connections versus fleeting fame, culminating in the promotion of Louis's new independent film about an anxious jazz pianist, proving that non-algorithmic content can thrive without heavy advertising. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Trusting Science Over Feelings00:07:54
I trust AIDS.
Do you?
A's is doing a great job at what it does.
I'm not saying it should be doing it.
Like 9-11, you had to in the sorrow and the anger and the rage and the sadness.
You had to go, dude, fucking bullseye.
Bull's eye.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to Flagrant.
And listen, we are here with the reason why I was able to put out my special thank you guys so much for supporting it.
And the star of his new film, we got Louis C.K. and Joe Listen.
So I was telling you this before, I just got to say thank you so much because if you didn't do it, then I wouldn't have been able to do it.
And this has been a really awesome experience for me.
And I'm just really grateful.
And I believe in giving credit to those who paved the way, man.
So I just assumed that was for me.
I did a YouTube special.
That's why I thought.
How did your Rogan go so badly?
It's such a great guess.
Right before the podcast, we're sitting out there and we're saying hi to Joe and introducing Joe to everybody.
I'm like, hey, man, I'm really excited for this.
He's like, me too, man.
Oh, by the way, I did the worst Rogan ever.
He's like, I was told by everyone.
It's the worst Rogan ever.
I think I have like the first, the first worst and like the fifth worst.
I've done it too.
I'm 0 for 2.
Top 10.
Yeah.
But I feel bad because I took away...
Louie was going to say something very profound for sure.
I just wanted to do a bit and get out.
No, you know, this is bad.
But Louie, thank you.
I didn't do it for you.
No, no, no.
Louie.
We went over this.
I didn't even know you existed.
I didn't even have an abstract notion of you or anybody else.
Try to see.
It actually annoys me a little that you're doing it now.
What?
Trying away from me.
How amazing yours was.
That's right.
I wanted to be the only one to ever do it.
Now, you did immediately ask.
Please, I'm very pleased that you're doing it.
You immediately asked how much money I made.
Of course they did.
And when you found out I made less, you were like, I'm really proud of you.
Is that what you think?
No.
But you wouldn't tell me how much you made.
I didn't even tell you how much I made.
After you asked me how much.
That's right.
I asked you.
It's like poker.
It's like, what are your cards?
It's not an exchange.
You didn't say.
Is that a part of poker?
What are your cards?
Sometimes people ask people, what do you have?
Ah, ah, ah.
And it's an interesting tactic in poker.
They don't expect them to tell them.
But you go, what do you have there?
And then they look at their face after they asked.
That's interesting because he thought this is friendship and you thought this is poker.
You were playing poker against me.
It's all poker.
Yeah.
And you're the most negotiator ever, too.
You didn't say, you tell, are you going to tell me?
You just told me.
No, You gave me fucking industrial data.
You gave me industry data with no prior, you know, agreement.
You just said, I asked you, you told me.
You astonishing.
You said this person does that.
You go, how did it go?
Now, you're not asking emotionally.
No, that's right.
I said, how did it go?
And then you said you wanted, do you want to know how much?
I did lift my hand.
You did.
I did.
Which means nobody over here.
No.
He heard it, but not.
But not.
I heard it and tweeted it out.
I hope that's cool.
Oh, no.
That's totally fine.
It's out there.
Totally fine.
It's on my Insta stories.
If I did not share with you how much I'm making.
But then I asked you in the same way.
I was like, do you feel comfortable with me asking you?
And then you pause for a moment and you say, no, I do not.
Well, you see why you rewrite things a lot because it's not all what happens.
It's not all what happens.
Yeah, that happens.
It's interesting, but it's not because you're lying.
It's because you hear yourself differently.
You said, you just said that you said, do you feel comfortable with me asking?
Yeah.
That didn't happen at all.
Do you mind if I ask you?
Hey.
That's very different.
Do you feel comfortable?
Do you feel comfortable asking?
Which is a dumb question.
Because you're going to ask somebody that before you ask a question.
Do you feel comfortable with me asking you about your childhood?
No, I don't.
Then I won't.
It's fucking stupid.
It doesn't make any sense at all.
You asked, you said, Can I ask you?
I said, I don't know.
I want to ask you.
What if I was like, yo, it'd be super if you didn't tell me how much you made?
What if I said that?
Would that be a little bit more?
I would have told you immediately.
I don't know.
I don't want to be stupid.
We can't.
I don't want this.
We got to cut.
Cut everything.
Get it.
Are you crazy?
Yes.
Oh, my.
Super f.
Yeah.
The super Jesus.
Yeah, I don't want you to know how much I made on my shows.
That's corporate data.
I know how much you made at least.
Do you?
Yeah.
What do you mean?
How do you know that?
I don't even care what you think you know.
Well, you tell us how much you lost.
I know you made more than me.
So I know at least how much you make.
Why do you think you know?
This is more interesting to me.
I don't even care if you're filming this.
I'm so interested.
Why do you think you know that I made more than you?
You have a bad poker face, bro.
That's interesting.
Sometimes people ask people things knowing they're not going to get an answer, and then they just judge by the way you look at them.
Based on outfits, Andrew made a lot more.
Based on outfits?
Oh, yeah.
But it's, it's the, see, it's even dumber than having a bad poker face is believing that you know somebody's poker face before you've even seen their cards.
That's the third time he's called me dumb.
I'm saying that things you're doing are dumb.
I'm saying that thing, the things you're saying are dumb.
Okay.
That doesn't make you dumb.
Nobody is stupid.
You understand?
Wow.
Like I said, something racist.
Just making me so upset.
I'm not going to lie.
That was super right.
That was really super duper.
Everybody's smart.
Everybody's not what I mean.
Nobody's stupid.
That's not what I mean.
Nobody's stupid.
What about the people who are like clinically you mean retarded?
Retarded people.
Yes.
Like, yeah, they're on the spectrum or something like that.
Guys, spectrum is not stupid.
It's a down syndrome.
Yeah, down syndrome.
Down syndrome.
Downsies.
Yeah.
Jesus.
The downsis.
The spectrum is not about intelligence.
The spectrum is about social being able to kill people.
No, no, but the retarded spectrum is about that.
There's a retarded spectrum.
Well, you think they're all the same IQ, Louie?
Yeah, also the IQ.
Every one of them is the same stupid.
Yes, I understand what you're saying.
And an IQ test, objectively, there's a low score.
That's a stupid person.
Yeah.
It's like a tested thing.
This is science here.
Oh, okay.
I guess he's right.
Do you not trust the science, bro?
Yeah, no, I don't trust the science.
You can't trust science.
Keep going on that.
Science isn't about trusting.
Science is about questioning.
Oh, shit.
Trust is about religion.
Trust is faith.
You don't trust science.
You look into it and you test it and you criticize it and scrutinize it.
If you trust science, it's fucking, that's bullshit.
Somebody does an experiment and then they go, here's what this means.
And then everybody goes, all right, we have to trust that.
No, somebody needs to keep redoing it and redoing it.
Yeah.
All the greatest theories in science have been like, you know, like Stephen Hawking, the guy with a down Z.
Yeah, he's so stupid.
He's the stupidest man alive.
That guy, he had a whole theory that he created that was that changed everything.
Relativity.
No.
Yeah.
Right?
Everything's relative.
Wasn't another name in the movie?
That was Einstein.
Yeah, well, whatever.
Yeah.
He was smart.
He wore the same thing every day.
I thought that was Steve Jobs.
He did too.
He took it from Einstein.
I like how that's your also.
Well, that's a uniform.
The Stupidity of Great Theory00:10:56
Yeah.
Still smart.
As you were.
So Hawkin had this Hawking Hey, Hawking.
He had a theory that was changed everything.
And then now he had students.
And he told one of his students, just try this formula, like prove this just for fun.
And then the student couldn't do it.
Yeah.
Kept coming back.
And then he realized, oh, my theory is totally wrong.
And he had to admit it.
His theory was flawed.
It had flaws.
So he had to redo it.
But if everyone trusted his theory, it would still sit there wrong.
And there'd be spaceships, you know, crashing into moons.
Now, is that how you feel about the vaccine?
And, you know, and AIDS and stuff?
Like, how do you, yeah, AIDS?
What about AIDS and stuff?
Well, AIDS.
I trust AIDS.
I trust AIDS.
Do you?
AIDS is doing a great job at what it does.
I'm not saying it should be doing it.
Right.
I'm saying it's a fantastic official.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Like 9-11, you had to, in the sorrow and the anger and the rage and the sadness, you had to go, dude, fucking bullseye.
Bullseye.
Bullseye.
I'm glad you said it because I can't.
You know what I mean?
So I'm thinking.
Fucking IE.
Both.
You got both too.
Fucking Pentagon.
And the Pennington.
Are you fucking seven?
Building seven?
Yeah.
I mean, just, but, oh, Lord, have mercy.
They were.
Masterpiece, would you say?
Yeah.
Someone.
It's the most recent for sure.
I wish they hadn't.
Sure.
But because of people that died.
They really nailed it.
They fucking nailed it, dude.
Yeah.
And I think they see it that way.
They can appreciate it.
One of my favorite stories about it was there was a documentary about it on PBS after.
And they talked, you know, they tried once before with the truck bomb in the one notorious BIG sang about.
I think it was 90.
Like 95 or 96.
Yeah.
I remember it.
I was living here.
And 93.
So they got one of the guys that did it.
They took him.
They were taking him.
They talked to a cop.
This was a great interview.
He just had a fucking rainman moment right there.
I think it was 93.
It was 95 or 96, I think.
What was 93?
Wasn't that, what was that?
The Somalia?
Black Hawk Down?
It wasn't 93.
You're thinking of Kuwait, I think.
When did Biggie die?
97.
Okay.
1993 had time.
1993 was the bombing?
Let's go, Lisch.
Let's fucking go.
What the fuck?
Oh, I know my bombing.
And then 2004 was 9-11.
You know, when was the bumming?
The guy, the guy that gets the 93 bombing, but not since 2001.
Okay.
That's a great Galfanakis joke.
He says, someone said, where were you on 9-11?
And he says, what year?
Funny guy.
Oh, man.
Sorry.
PBS.
PBS did a documentary.
So they interviewed a marshal, a federal marshal, who escorted one of the perpetrators of that first bombing to his trial in Manhattan.
And they had him in a helicopter and they're flying to the courthouse.
So he's next to the prisoner.
And they're flying right next to the World Trade Center.
My God, this guy.
And the federal guy, the Fed Marshal, is just a cop.
He says, I pointed at the buildings and I said, you didn't get them, did you?
And the guy just coldly said, we'll get them.
Wow.
Whoa.
What language?
And they did.
Those buildings are no longer there.
Yes.
They're no longer there.
They are no longer there.
That might have been where he got the idea.
You're flying up there.
He's like, oh, this is the way.
That federal marshal probably was the inspiration for it.
He was the museum.
You know, that might be true.
He was the muse for 9-11.
Yeah, he saw from the air.
Fuck from the thing.
Yeah, buddy.
From the air.
He's probably asking, like, how do you fly that thing?
He's probably asking little questions right there.
It's his fault.
I don't know if he was thinking of using that helicopter.
It could have been a matter of time.
I think it was more of a from the air.
Yeah.
You started out really smart.
You got stupid at the end.
Oh, now they're stupid.
What?
Yeah.
See, that's what I'm saying.
You stupid to let people know when they're being dumb or stupid.
When they're saying it's stupid.
Yeah, it's a good word.
It's a good valuative word.
Are you projecting something, maybe?
Do you feel stupid?
Yeah, a lot of times.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tell us about that.
I feel stupid all the time.
Every day.
Really?
When did you feel stupid today?
You big dummy?
I'll tell you: last time I felt stupid, I was in a swimming pool on a paddleboard, teaching myself to paddleboard in a swimming pool.
Okay.
Wow.
And I was starting to really nail it.
And somebody was watching me and I was showing off.
And then I wanted to jump off of it.
Like, you know, I wanted to dismount and splash, but I had gone into the very shallow part of the pool.
So I cracked my fucking knee on the bottom of the pool.
And then I couldn't do anything for the rest of the day.
That was stupid.
Yeah, that was dumb.
That made me feel stupid.
That's why I call him stupid to get it off.
Get it off of me onto him.
You got to cleanse the palate.
I'm comfortable.
Why not?
I don't know.
I had a scary moment on a stand-up panel board in Aruba.
It was like really windy.
When you do the stand-up panel board, if it's really windy, you become like a sail.
Yes.
It's bad.
If it's coming at you, it becomes really work.
And I couldn't fucking move and I was really struggling.
And a guy that was swimming went, hey, just step off of it.
I was in like three feet of water.
And so I just got off and like walked back with the paddleboard.
But I was like doing fucking this and I couldn't get anywhere.
And he's like, yeah, you just get down.
Now, Joe, can I ask you a question?
That's the last time I was stupid.
That was it, huh?
2005.
And then it was 9-11.
Nailing it.
Nailing it ever since.
Are you a great actor, Joe?
Are you kidding?
No.
Give me an emotion.
What do you want me to do?
We do Asian veteran.
Asian veteran.
Oh, I fought hard in the wall.
It's an Asian veteran.
That's beautiful.
Oh, I survived.
Asian veterinarian.
Can you do that?
Asian veterinarian.
Hey, well, give it a shot.
Wait, wait.
It's an Italian.
Wait, I fucked up.
Hey, I fucked up.
That was Italian.
Oh, whoa, your dog is sick.
Hey, but I made a choice, you see?
Good actors make choices.
Yeah, he makes choices.
He's a great actor when it comes to making choices.
That's a thing.
100%.
Joe is a really great actor.
He's a great natural actor.
And as evidence of the movie that we made.
Well, that's what we were getting in there.
Was he your first choice for this movie?
He's the only choice.
Not my first choice.
I argued to not play me.
I wanted Chalamay because of the resemblance.
Yeah, exactly.
I see that for sure.
Right?
Yes.
Chalamet would have been fucking great, to be honest.
You're a better actor than Chalamay.
Say that again.
I think that he's a better actor than Timothy Chalamay.
Have you seen Dune?
Yes, that is the third worst movie I ever saw.
That's great.
Yeah.
I was watching it and I was getting totally shit.
Love that movie.
It just moved.
It's just people just sounds and then.
Why are we off my brilliance so quickly?
We're chiseling out your brilliance by saying what isn't good.
Well, what isn't bad?
Okay, okay.
So you think Dune sucked?
Yeah, I hated it.
Are you a fan of anything good?
Yeah, fan of all the good things.
Okay.
Did you like Top Gun Maverick?
I enjoy the shit out of it.
It's a big, silly movie, but so it was the first one.
You can't just give it up.
I just loved it.
Let's give it up.
It's the best part of it.
No, that's accurate.
That's accurate.
Towards the end, when somebody says, like, you're back, Maverick, where you belong, and you hear all these bald fat guys, you just hear all the dudes are crying because they're like, Yeah, we're back.
They heard us for so many years.
We're back.
No, it's beautiful.
That movie is beautiful.
Yes.
Top gun move.
It is a great movie.
Another, like 9-11.
It's like they shouldn't have done it, but they boy, did they fucking nail it.
They fucking nail it.
There's suffering and there's sorrow.
And I'm sorry for the family.
But wow, guys.
Yeah.
Well done, Maverick.
Now, after you saw Top Gun Maverick and you have this film with Joe that you guys are putting out, right?
Do you see, is there a resemblance between Tom Cruise's ability to capture emotion and really kind of like hold a scene?
And Joe Lisz 100%.
And as a matter of fact, when I saw that movie and I thought about this, it is being enjoyed all over the country.
People are loving this movie.
And I thought our movie is a perfect companion for it.
Also, 4th of July patriotic name.
That's right.
There you go.
Born on the 4th of July.
I mean, look at all this.
Oh, my God.
It's Tom Cruise's movie.
But whenever it's Tom Cruise movie, he's in a wheelchair.
Downsey.
Downsey, yeah.
Physical Downsy.
Yeah.
Downsey.
Downsey from the upsea.
I'm an outsee.
He's a downsee.
Yeah, he's a downsee.
They should have been called downsey.
Okay.
Yeah, whenever there's been a big blockbuster, there's been a little movie that came with like a little movie that everybody really loved.
Like a little funny.
I have no examples.
Okay.
I had a feeling.
I had a feeling.
So like with Terminator, there was like another movie that came out.
I think probably something like that.
Maybe like a Labor Day, like a holiday movie.
A movie about a holiday.
Yeah, like Sideways.
When Sideways came out, I don't know what the big blockbuster was that.
2004 is actually a couple months before.
That's right.
There you go.
Look at the big brain on a coach.
Smart motherfucker.
Come fiction.
94.
Okay.
Is there anything?
Are you like a guy like it's hard for you to celebrate mainstream successful things?
No, as long as they're good.
I like when a movie kicks ass, everybody digs it.
Yeah.
I don't like when they just push, just push, push marketing.
Yeah.
And it's good.
And say, I swear to God, this is good.
And they spend tons of money on the movie.
Dune.
And there's just an inevitability to it.
Dune is an interesting midway because it's not just a dumb piece of shit that they're like, everyone's going to like this because people are stupid.
It's supposed to be smart.
It's supposed to be cool.
Does that bother you more?
That bothers me more.
There's just more pretension in it.
Yes.
But then I do have to respect that people love Dune.
They love it.
I have to respect that.
That means they're right.
They're right for them.
Have you seen it?
It's just for me.
It makes me feel isolated because I'm like, what is that?
But everybody digs it.
You got to respect that.
Sure.
France.
France.
Do you ever go and spend time in France?
I know where he's going.
You're like a French guy.
Let him get there.
French Honesty Meets Pretension00:10:39
You're a very French person.
And on the surface, you're not.
I feel like you're complimenting.
No, we're seeing.
No, no, no, no.
I'm not trying to joke around.
Like, I'm being serious.
You're like a very thoughtful person.
But you can point out the like kind of almost like, what did you say about Top Gun?
It was.
It's a fun time, but it's like, but it's also silly.
Yeah.
Right.
That's a French attitude.
I think the French are skeptical about very incredibly successful things.
They like to like pull out the, they're like food Jews.
Food Jews.
Yes, exactly.
What's up?
It's a food jewel.
Well, it's like a Jew, but it also likes food.
So it's like, so for example, food juice.
Food juice.
Yes.
I think I think your world of people say food juice or do you.
Do you think I'm a Jew?
Do I think you're Schultz?
No.
Schultz is like the name of the guy in Zeros.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I think you're a thoughtful person.
What do you care to swamp him for because he's a Nazi?
I think so.
Nazi's not a Jew.
Not a Jew.
That was your face.
Oh, you don't know?
Okay, I see.
Yeah.
You worry about that because of your nose.
You said that, not me.
Whoa, you made that observation.
I did.
Who else has big noses?
Italians have big noses.
Italians.
Yeah.
Also food Jews.
And Arabic girls sometimes.
And women with big noses are into a big nose.
That's a sexy attribute in a woman.
Really?
Would you be gay?
Right now?
From French to gay.
I don't know.
Well, that's the gateway.
Would I be gay?
Be gay.
Could you say more words so I know how to answer that?
Would I be gay?
Come in more.
Would I be gay if?
Would you be gay?
Just in general.
Would you be gay?
I actually like the philosophical.
Yeah, we're being French.
Would you be gay?
Yeah.
We're in a cafe.
Given the opportunity, given the.
Hey, that's for you to.
Were there circumstances?
Yeah, sure, why not?
You don't need circumstances.
No.
What if you just had an emotional and like romantic attraction to a guy?
Would you just go with it?
Indulgently.
I would be scared and I would contemplate going towards that fear.
Because of public scrutiny?
I'll tell you a moment that I felt I almost became gay.
Sociology.
Sort of like.
Let's go.
Okay, I was 16, 17, living in where I grew up in Newton, Massachusetts.
And we had my friends and I did a lot of drugs.
And a friend of ours took us to a downtown Boston loft show.
It was like a concert in somebody's loft apartment.
And it's super cool.
And I felt so cool being there.
And a friend of mine knew some of the band, so I got to meet them.
I'm 16, I'm 17, smoking pot, you know.
And so we're leaving the loft.
We're going down these stairs that are going like this.
And some guys are going up because it's continuing.
And one guy goes, hey, and I look up and there's a guy at the top of the stairs.
And he goes, he's wearing like buddy holly glasses or something.
This is the 80s.
And he says, hey, and I go, what?
He goes, where are you going?
And I said, well, we're leaving.
And he goes, you're cute.
And I said, thanks.
And he said, come back up.
And for one second, I thought, that's a choice up there.
That's just going going back up, letting my friends go back to Newton and being gay.
That was a choice.
But I looked at him and then I went forward in my head to the big, you know, cock coming all in my face.
Yeah.
I was like, nah, let's go home.
Homosexuality is a choice is what I'm taking from this.
For me at the moment, it was.
A homosexual act would have been a choice.
That's always a choice.
An act is always a choice.
Well, it was like a name.
What's my nature?
Is that my nature?
Is that what I want?
Is this, you know, I like things about the moment.
I liked that he was invited, that he was a grown-up and I was reaching out to wanting to be a grown-up.
And he validated me.
And I liked, yes, that he validated me and that he said, I want you to come up and hang out with these grown-ups that you don't even know.
Yeah.
That was interesting.
But then when I added the gay sex angle in my head, I thought that taints the moment for me.
I don't want to because the sex part.
I don't want to have sex with a man.
I don't desire men sexually.
But we want validation from men.
Sure.
And we want to feel cool and you're at the cool loft.
And then in that age, you just, if someone gives you that, you know, you go, oh, yeah, I want to hang out with you.
You made me feel like you think if you weren't all right, I liked the way he talked.
He was assertive.
Something about him.
He seemed open and cool and like.
Fatherly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's like, I'm going to fuck that guy.
I'm going to fuck that kid.
Come on up here.
This is my guy.
Referee, good for you.
You're French, man.
I'm not sure.
You have a French honesty, dude.
I think that you're, I think you're from where you are from in the world.
Where am I from?
Like stupid lands that we're calling.
I know that you're a lot smarter than you seem.
I'm a dumb guy.
Yeah, you act like a dumb guy because you make money acting like a dumb guy.
Okay.
But you're smart, you're educated, you were raised with a lot of people.
I went to a party school.
Yeah, that's people with money, intelligent people with money go to party schools.
Oh, my parents didn't have crazy money.
Wow.
That's true, right?
Fuck.
My parents taught dance lessons for a living.
How much money can you make doing that?
You tell me.
I don't know.
I won't tell you.
No.
Don't tell him.
Again, you always tell them the money.
Come on.
You got to get him to say something.
No, but no, I grew up in the East Village.
You know?
And there was like a French.
I grew up in the East Village.
Astor Place.
Wow.
And there was a French influence.
Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
Starbucks.
Did you just question whether it was the fucking East Village for a second?
I didn't dislike you until that moment of this podcast.
And I almost wanted to punch you in your head.
You looked over at Joe like Joe is going to know what the fuck the East Village was.
I confirmed.
You guys are familiar with it.
It wasn't Joe.
It was anybody.
What the fuck do you know about New York?
You moved to the West Village.
You're around at loft parties.
100%.
Okay.
You're right.
Jesus Christ, these hipsters.
Little Bushwick is the real place.
Do you see how important it is to him?
Nothing if he's not a New Yorker.
That's it.
That's a New Yorker.
East Village.
That's how important that is to you.
No, it was just that you.
That's what the hell is of growing up on Astor Place.
But can I be honest?
You're not quite there and you're never fucking there.
Right now we're on Lafayette.
You're in the fucking border.
You wish you were.
Well, no, this isn't East Village.
This is like Nolita Sojo.
You wish you were East Village.
You wish you were like with Leonard Cohn and people like smoking hatch.
I don't know who that was.
But you live in East Village.
You had nice parents.
You were sheltered.
You had good names.
It was beautiful.
It was a great life.
You're a Mexican.
But real quick, you were right about the insecurity wasn't, it's what the East Village is now.
East Village has moved over.
People who live in Alphabet City go, oh, I live in the East Village.
Before, that wasn't.
But now that it's moved over, now where I grew up is like no-ho, and now I've lost my East Village.
I understand how that feels.
And that's what you were tapping into.
So you weren't.
I understand how that feels.
I get it.
The insecurity came out.
I'll be honest.
I think insecurity is not that people always want to get it real.
You're the French insecurity.
But it's from somewhere real.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm like, you're fucking jocked.
You said Gustavo.
He investigated underwater.
Yes, he did.
Yeah, don't judge.
Whatever one fashion.
He said, what neighborhood do you think you're from?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mr. Marlon.
Yeah.
Yeah, the East Village.
Yeah, the Alpha Bad City used to have its own character.
It was its own place.
Yes, it was.
And now it's kind of been gentrified by you people moving here to follow your dreams.
Yeah.
To our great city.
Yeah, me, the Mexicans, generally.
Yeah, the Mexicans coming in.
That's right.
Now, you lie a lot about being Mexican.
Can you?
You're a big time liar about being Mexican.
Can you cut that shit out a little bit?
Why do you think it's a lie?
Do you speak Spanish?
Cloudo que sí.
No, Español way.
Abos Español?
Go ahead.
Yo, yo, he was struggling.
Yo, queo, que no a las español.
Donde aprende español.
You don't speak Spanish, really.
Shut that fucking shit up already.
Bibi unaño en españa.
Okay.
Y tabientra baje muchos chesterante, si.
Prenda.
No.
Claudo que esi.
No, no.
Eres español, not estás.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, it's grammar.
That's what makes a person a person.
Don't be defensive.
Don't be defensive.
You're really East Villaging this right now.
No, you really are.
I own it.
I'm defensive about it.
But you don't even know anything about why I'm Mexican.
I mean, why do you think.
Do you really think I don't know why you're Mexican?
I don't know anything about what you know.
I hope this ends in a fist fight.
Yeah, right.
I just kicked the shit out of each other.
I do my research.
Yeah.
I know about these things.
Research is me search.
Oh.
Why now?
That's a saying.
What?
That's a saying.
You're doing research, you're searching yourself.
It's like when you're writing, you're always writing about yourself, even if you think you're not writing about yourself.
I'm a smart motherfucker, too.
I'm French.
I want to be French.
I'll make out with a man right now.
Mark is giving the opposite.
Invite him upstairs.
Come on.
Got some spiral stairs.
Yeah, we do.
Did you feel when you walked up those stairs?
They weren't spiral, but I like the image.
It's like half the spiral.
Don't tell people what's on the back end.
Yeah.
I didn't go back there.
I don't know anything.
I believe in that.
I trust that.
If you tell me that's a spiral staircase.
Yeah.
You want to go for a walk up the staircase?
No, but it's there.
Can I try again?
Hey.
Hey.
Where are you going?
If that guy had done that, it would have been like, fuck it.
No, no, no.
So you guys don't know how to act.
You don't know how to pick up.
You don't know how to pick up a teenage boy.
Damn, bro.
Okay, okay.
You don't act sexy with a teenage boy.
You act cool.
Hey, what's up?
Come on.
Oh, fuck.
Is that cool?
I mean, it almost worked on me.
That's why I know it.
Right, right, right, right.
Cool as change, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's all good.
We all get old, bro.
Okay.
Am I the oldest person here?
I think so, right?
What do you mean, fucking think?
Oh my gosh.
Break up the font on your iPhone again.
Cockfights and Teenage Boys00:04:59
Also, when you talk about the bald fat guys crying at Top Gun, I was like, was Louie crying at Top Gun?
I cried at Top Gun Maverick.
I did.
I knew it.
I knew it.
I can't believe how they preserved this fucking character and how Tom did.
Yeah.
And brought him to.
I mean, as soon as it opens with the shots of the aircraft carrier and that, and that burner, and the guys point and all that, you're like, I can't believe they did this.
I can't believe they did this.
Did they really do it?
And then you see Maverick with his older but still cool arms as he's, you know, on the thing.
And you're like, go, man, go.
This is so fucking good.
And then you meet the other characters and you're like, all right, let's get through this.
Like, I'm the tough girl.
I'm the guy that doesn't ever give it up.
I'm the guy who's kind of, I don't know what anybody's doing.
You got to watch that for a while.
And they keep cutting to Maverick, which means nothing.
But in that first scene in the bar, because they're like, it's okay.
He's here.
It's okay.
He's here.
Maverick is here.
He's here.
It's for me.
So the young people are meeting these characters that I hate, but they're Mavericks.
It's okay.
And Jennifer Connolly's over here.
She's over here.
They cut to the two of them constantly.
It's not important that they're listening to these kids.
It's important that you as a viewer see them.
When you're watching movies.
Yeah.
Sorry.
I'm interested.
That's all.
I'm done.
When you're watching, or you know, we're watching stand-up.
You're like seeing if you could see where this joke is going, et cetera.
And when you're watching film, is it like that?
All the time.
I stop and go back all the time and see how why the cuts were what they were.
And yeah.
And this is always.
And you can see why they did stuff.
They fixed something.
You can tell they fixed something.
You can tell they cut something here.
You can tell they cut something out.
It's an awkward transition.
And, you know, yeah, I study Eld movies all the time that way.
Okay.
You're studying movies.
Obviously, stand-up is exploding.
I'm talking about earlier in your career, right?
Yeah.
You did you notice that there were like certain stories that just exploded and what it was about like story that we're so drawn to.
Like, why is it like, I don't know, there's something just about human beings.
Why are we so engaged by the story?
I can give somebody a hot take or a hot premise or whatever, but the story is the impactful thing.
The story is when everybody's sitting around in a group and you're telling a thing that happened, everybody shuts down.
That's right.
Why?
Movie stories is big.
It drives.
It grabs your interest, and then you relate to it and you want to see what happens.
And it's suspenseful.
When a movie is about something, like an issue, it lays there because you feel the way you feel about a movie and about an issue.
And maybe they're on your side, maybe they're not, but you're like, it's just laying there.
So these political movies, they don't grab a viewer.
But if you're watching a story, by the way, you can get to an issue by driving through the story.
And do you think Hollywood has an inflated sense of self, or do you think it is because of how impactful certain movies and stories are?
Do you think there are certain people in Hollywood that are going, listen, we're going to change the course of American history with this movie?
It's not that high pollutant.
It's cynical.
A story works, so they go, let's do that, let's do that story.
They just keep doing every story has a reverberating effect on a bunch of movies.
So somebody comes up with a story nobody's quite told before, and then it gets done again and again and again.
Everybody's just chasing.
Yeah, they're just chasing other people's stories around.
And some people are actually good at it.
Some of those are okay.
You know, some B movies are actually, you know, good on that level.
It's a rehash of some other thing and they put a prettier face on it.
And, you know, you get, and then yeah, it's style.
You have a style of filmmaking and then you get that.
There's a, are you a fan of the Nolans at all?
I know this is like mainstream.
Christopher Nolan?
Yeah.
Not, I mean, I don't get grabbed by those sort of like, this is time is twisty.
That was very, really weird, but I almost feel like, and maybe this is because I'm a fan of their work.
I almost feel like that is they?
Well, Christopher and Jonathan, his brother Jonathan writes it with him.
Oh, I didn't even know that.
Yeah.
But I just, I wonder if that's them like trying to flex their storytelling ability.
I do think that those movies are sincerely interested in what they're doing.
I don't think they're like, yeah, it's not my thing, but they're good.
They're great movies.
And some people absolutely, if anybody loves a movie, it's a great movie.
What is the best movie you've ever seen?
It's impossible to say that.
I don't really know.
So many that there's a movie, there's ones that just pop in my head like Hard Times is a movie everybody should see.
It's Charles Bronson and James Coburn.
And it's just about a guy who's a bare knuckle, you know, brawler where they go to like a factory and they get two guys and they just, and guys throw money.
It's like a cockfight with men.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's during the Depression and it's set in New Orleans.
And somehow they made New Orleans, they shot it in the 60s, look like New Orleans during the Depression.
And it's funny as fuck.
And it's strange and it's beautiful.
And there's this, just Charles Bronson just fist fighting with dudes.
Boxing, Money, and Underwear00:05:48
Long fist fight scenes with blood everywhere.
And it's super fun.
Great movie.
I heard a cool story about you.
And you can tell me I can't say it, but it is really endearing.
I heard you.
You're about to be a good guy.
Okay.
For once.
I heard you gave a bunch of money to a boxing gym in the area because they were going through tough times during COVID.
Yeah.
Alberto, it's really close to here.
He has a place called Work Train Fight.
Delvety Tap.
Yeah, yeah.
Work Train Fight.
Alberto was a boxing trainer at just a crunch gym years and years ago.
Somewhere on YouTube, there's a video of me boxing with him.
You see it on Lafayette right there on like fourth or something like that?
Yes, exactly where.
And he's wearing a SpongeBob costume because it was Halloween that day.
And he and I sparred and he really went at, he hurt me.
So there's a video of that on YouTube somewhere.
But he used to train me back then.
I love boxing training.
And then he's just a very unassuming guy.
And we come with train.
And then I got back in touch with him and he had started, just humbly said, I started a gym.
I went there.
It's a fantastic gym.
And all kinds of people go there.
And Manhattan Nights, you know, boxing.
And he makes a lot of money with those folks.
Yeah.
And then he dedicates a whole other time to bringing kids into the gym for free to use boxing to help them get off the streets and have, you know, the ethos of boxing is a great way to get to teach young people to make an effort and to have some structure in your life.
So during COVID, he was taken aback.
You can't do it.
And they didn't give him a cut on the rent or anything.
He was paying like $20,000, $30,000 a month.
That's right.
It's an elite place.
But he also, he's so smart.
He makes WTF gear.
He loves everything.
People love it.
He's got a podcast, WTF.
He puts on glasses and the president's.
He talks about anxiety and depression.
Pretty amazing.
It's a big show.
But he also has fights on Friday or Saturday nights where people pay to come and watch the students fight each other.
They have little grudge matches and he makes videos.
He just, he started shooting videos and promos and stuff.
He's a brilliant guy and a very sweet guy.
And he helped me a lot.
And when I came back to boxing, I really needed it at the time.
And he had started this gym and he let me use it.
So it was an easy call for me.
I just think that's really cool.
It's like, man, I gave him $800.
It wasn't that much.
So you're telling me you made $50 million in your specials that you put on your website?
At least $50 million.
$75 million a day.
Yeah.
And you gave him $800.
That's right.
And he told me you demanded three reps.
You're like, I'll do it, but I need three hand reps.
Three hand wraps because I have three hands.
Yeah.
One number you shouldn't have used.
It's three.
I gave him some money.
I gave him some money.
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, this is you guys boxing.
Oh, this is hilarious.
Yeah.
And I was in my 40s then.
I was already.
Get you hopping around?
Trying to.
But when he hit the body, you see that body shots destroying me.
Yeah.
You got hands, though.
I see you.
Okay.
Have you been in a street fight?
Not really.
I punched a kid in the face once, and that's about it.
In Mexico.
He started crying.
Yeah.
That's how we met.
Asked him for an autograph.
All right, guys, we're going to take a break for a second because I got to tell y'all about the best underwear in the motherfucking business.
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Matter of fact, they got lady underwear as well.
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All right, guys, let's take a break for a second because I got to save you money.
It's not going to cost you nothing.
So you listen to fuck up.
We're going to do it with honey.
Very simple.
You're going to buy things online, right?
When you're going to check out, there's always that little screen.
So, do you have a coupon code?
You don't.
None of us do.
Nobody ever has a fucking coupon code.
Those coupon codes exist somewhere on the internet, and honey is going to find them for you, and they're going to insert it into that little fucking window, and you're going to get your discount.
Simple as that.
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Do you have to pay for something?
No, you literally just get discounts.
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Matter of fact, it's not cheap.
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I save money on sneakers.
Not cheap sneakers.
I save money, though.
Value.
Simple as that.
Okay.
Coupon Codes and Browser Extensions00:15:28
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Guys, I got to stop the podcast because I got to say thank you.
Thank you guys so much for supporting Infamous.
July 31st, that was the last day that we were selling it.
It's been unbelievably successful, all because of you guys.
I'm incredibly grateful.
Thank you so goddamn much for spreading the word about this and just telling everybody you fucking know, post it on your Instagram, post on Twitter.
It's been awesome.
We're going to continue to get out a few more links for those of you who couldn't afford it.
And we sent out a bunch already.
I hope you guys really enjoyed it.
But once again, thank you so much.
We made a fucking comedy pay-per-view event.
We held on to the conversation for two weeks.
I mean, there are comedy specials that go up on Netflix and then people talk about them for a day and it's fucking dead.
For two weeks, people were talking about this.
And we did that shit.
And I'm incredibly grateful and I'm incredibly proud.
So thank you guys so much.
I really appreciate it.
And that's all I want to say.
Now we can get back to episode.
No, back to the Mexican thing.
I want to clarify this.
You did live in Mexico.
Yeah.
You spent formative years in Mexico.
Your father, I believe, is Hungarian and Mexican.
Well, he was raised in Mexico.
His father was Hungarian.
And then came.
Moved to Mexico in the early 1900s.
Married a Mexican Catholic woman and had a huge family of all my uncles and my dad, my Mistios Mistia.
Okay, okay.
I think it's an American thing where we're surprised that people move to other countries that aren't American.
That's right.
So it's not so easy.
I mean, at the time, there was quotas for he was trying to come to America, my grandfather, my abuelito.
Yeah.
And he was a Hungarian Jewish doctor.
Oh, you're Jewish.
Yeah.
Well, I'm not Jewish.
I wasn't raised Jewish, but it's Jewish.
The IQ and everything.
Quarter.
The IQ.
The love of the big nose.
My grandfather is a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a lovely big nose.
I thought you were just trying to get back in the industry.
It turns out you're actually a little bit more Jewish.
Only donating 800 bucks.
Dude, Leslie.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So to clarify, you are Mexican.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was born here.
My father moved here, came here to go to school.
Met my mother here, who's American, Irish, English, you know, Michigan girl.
Very smart woman, my mom.
And they met at a, she was going to summer school and he was at school and they met, they married.
And then they brought after my sister, when my sister was born in Mexico.
Was this a visa thing or like to get your dad?
To be able to be here?
No, he was here to get an education.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So they're still together.
No, my mother's dead and he's just in a fucking some shithole home that I pay for.
800 bucks a month will get you a long way.
You're making live at the fucking boxing stream.
Exactly.
Put him to work.
That's right.
Okay.
Fights on Friday nights.
When somebody's 54, you don't ask, are your parents still together?
Well, I didn't know.
Live.
No, they divorced when I was 10.
But we we after before I was even one, we moved back to Mexico City.
He got a job there at a bank.
Yeah.
And we lived there till I was about seven.
So I moved to, we came here and I remember coming to America and speaking.
I only spoke Spanish.
And you have full red hair.
Yeah.
You're in Boston.
Yeah.
And you only speak Spanish.
Canelo Alvarez.
Of course.
I looked like that.
But I can't imagine with people in Boston where there's already Irish redheads everywhere, seeing an Irish redhead and then you not being able to communicate.
It was weird.
It feels like you moved actually to Framingham, which had a big Puerto Rican community.
Okay.
So there were Puerto Rican kids in my school that spoke Spanish but wouldn't.
I had to adapt really fast and I had to learn English really fast.
My sisters all still speak fluent Spanish.
Everybody in my family but me speaks fluent Spanish.
Do you think that helped you become a comic?
Yes, it did.
Adapting did help me.
And just kind of feeling on the outside.
100%.
Good question.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
I did.
And did I ask any good questions?
It's been tedious.
It's been impossible.
Oh, damn.
I was really trying to hardly.
You asked if he would be gay.
That was your big question.
No, that's a great question.
Yeah, What do balls taste like?
Balls, what do they taste like?
Yeah.
A little bit like chicken if you eat them.
If you lick them.
Skin.
An elbow.
At the end of the day, it tastes like balls.
Okay, something I've always, always wondered about you is you reach the mountaintop of the industry, right?
Yeah.
Like you're, you're going to be humble about this.
I'm going to tell you what it felt like from the outside.
It's this outside looking in, right?
We're all looking at this guy who we know is hilarious.
And then all of a sudden the world finds out that he's hilarious and he's doing whatever he wants to do.
You do a show.
It's critically acclaimed.
You have this weird thing where you're like beloved by like working class mainstream people and Hollywood.
Even your face is uncomfortable because I'm complimenting you.
This is like a comic thing I've realized.
It's hard to, it's okay.
And then you go independent.
I think a lot of us went independent because we didn't have the opportunity to do these things, right?
You chose to go independent.
Why?
I never understood it.
I imagine everybody's like begging you to produce shows.
They're going, please, can you write a show, Louis?
Oh my God, can you make this movie?
Can you do whatever you want?
Well, it always seemed like the smart thing to do to me because it felt good.
I like the way it felt more than anything else because you see so much waste in the way things are done and so much stuff that's about, why are we doing this?
Yeah.
Oh, God, I wish we didn't have to do that.
And also, I like guys like, there's certain guys I really admire, like Floyd Mayweather.
The greatest, in my opinion, not the greatest boxer.
Yeah.
He's the greatest great of all time.
Meaning he is better at boxing than I think Stephen Hawkins was at science or anybody was at anything.
I think he perfected his craft more.
He really did.
Guys like him and Ultra, Tyler Perry is another guy who I think.
Oh, what a fucking beast, dude.
I fucking admired us.
These guys who just...
What's your favorite?
What's your favorite Medea?
I don't never seen any of his work.
Family.
I've never seen a single Tyler Perry.
I watched a little bit of a live one of the, he started by doing these live things.
And he had these, he'd make a house and there's people upstairs and downstairs and they're wearing the weird headstocks.
Yeah, the gay guy upstairs.
And so I saw how that worked and that he's just getting selling tickets.
But another guy that's just like him who I admire just as much is John Waters, who wanted to make movies, had no way.
He lived in Baltimore, but he thought straight lines.
He didn't go like somehow, someday they'll discover me.
He just went to a movie theater and asked them, who decides what gets projected on that screen?
Very basic.
And they said, well, we get him from the studios.
And he goes, and he sees that there's shows till 9, 10 p.m.
He goes, Do you have a midnight show?
And the theater goes, Why would we do that?
He goes, Let me have the room at midnight.
I'll pay you rent.
And then he goes with a shit camera and really poured a lot of work into and made his movies about his community and made it mean so much to his community.
Crazy people, you know, Divine, the Transvestite, and all these people.
And then he'd show them in this ball and give out flyers and pack those fucking places.
It was a huge thing.
Dolomite did it.
Dolomite is another guy who's just like, if I'm this and I'm the only one who does this thing that I do, I can find the people who dig it.
Yeah, really, and more.
So I didn't do that ground up like these guys did.
I came up through the industry, comedy club, hammering at comedy clubs.
Then I went to television, learned television, learned how to write TV and tried having my own show in different places and stuff.
But when I got all of that upstream battle, there's not much you can do except keep trying and try.
You don't have any control over how you do it.
But when I got to be big, when I got to the place where I'm like, if I put something on sale, it sells out.
It's guaranteed, right?
When you get to that place, that when your show is announced in any, and where I was at a point where it's like any building on earth will take my engagement.
I can book it.
And if I announce it, it will sell out.
It got to that crowd.
Not like giant cities, not Kenneth Hart, but you know.
Yeah, but there's also very for us, it's always, all right, he sold out Radio City.
Fucking amazing garden next.
I'm selling out comedy clubs now, now theaters.
You, it's like, I'm selling at Madison Square Garden.
I don't probably want to do the next bigger thing.
So like, I'm set.
Well, when I got to that place where it's like we put a show on the sale of the garden and then another one and then another one, what do you do with that power?
Yeah, yeah.
What do you do with that?
So you can go to the big companies and say, write me a huge check because of the power that I have.
But to me, it was far more interesting to figure out who are these guys?
How did this who books this place?
How does this happen?
And wonder if I can do some version of it myself.
And also, when you sell your own tickets, when you go directly to fans, you get the Glen Gary leads.
You get their.
If Ticketmaster and Live Nation sell your tickets for you, they get those emails.
They give us context.
They have control over your audience.
But if they had come, I have an email list that's people that have been coming to my live shows and buying my specials since way back.
Yeah.
You said two things I thought were interesting.
One is somehow you managed to do the garden without Ticketmaster.
No, we didn't ever got without.
I did this one year where I was like, I'm not going to use Ticketmaster.
Not because I think they're evil.
They're fucking smart.
They cornered a market.
But I saw that there was a way to get, we found at E-Tix, this company, they would do white label ticketing that looked like it was just our tickets.
And their Ticketmaster's fees were $12.50 a ticket, and E-Tick's was $1.50.
And there's no difference between what the two companies do.
So I used E-Ticks so I could bring the fans' tickets down.
It was $50 anywhere you saw me in any seat.
And we hired guys to kind of stop scalping so that really fans were only paying 50 bucks.
And the garden said, we're not going to take you because we use Ticketmaster.
And the Ticketmaster was run by a guy named Irvin something.
And he we would go.
This is a long story.
I don't know if it's that interesting, but it's a long time.
Well, we went like we'd go to a city like Kansas City and a Live Nation Ticketmaster has those rooms belonging.
They actually own those rooms.
They're doing what I want to do.
I respect it.
They're buying the whole room.
Fuck selling tickets.
We own the room.
They own the venue is what you're trying to say.
Right.
They own the venue.
And so you pay them rent.
And they're your fans to pay the ticket.
All that stuff is going to them.
Double dip.
And then you get whatever's left and your fans pay too much and you get too little.
So we would go to a room that doesn't have a live nation, you like to run down shithole room and would say, we'll do a show with you.
And sometimes they'd agree.
And then the next day, Ticketmaster would make a deal with them and rub us out because they saw what we were doing and they went around.
I thought there was a garden thing where you know.
So what happened was that I couldn't play the garden.
So like I did the city center here, which was the only room that was not controlled.
It's about 2,800 seats, I think.
And I did it for two weeks every night, like two shows.
I did something like 30 shows there.
And it was a lot of money.
A lot of work.
But so then the next year, Irvin, what's his name, left Ticketmaster and went to MSG.
And he kind of wanted to stick it to his old boss.
So he gave me a deal.
He wanted me in the garden.
So he put, I don't even know if it's legal for me to say all this, but he made a deal with me that the garden would pay Ticketmaster half their fee and I would pay half.
So he paid six and I paid six.
So I paid my fans' fee so that they could come to the garden to see me for 50 bucks.
To me, this was fun and interesting.
And I would have made less money than I would have.
But that's enough.
Yeah.
To me, that's an I've always, I have a cap to how much I want to earn.
Oh, is that right?
Yeah.
What is it?
Past that cap, it gets fun.
What fun can I have?
How can I earn money differently than other people?
And how can I bring more benefit to the fans so that they'll keep coming and be happy they came and not feel like it was a good show, but I fucking, I couldn't eat that week.
So you have your fucking number basically.
And then everybody exactly.
After that, it's money to play with, either to reinvest and work.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's the other thing that that's why I like when I made this show Horace and Pete and when I'm this movie self-financed.
That's what I do with my extra is make stuff without having to ask anybody, without having to, is just start making it, write the script and then look for a cast and start making it.
Now, I wonder if you are so popular and you're starting this trend of independence.
And I wonder if there are people in Hollywood that have animosity about that.
They're like, fuck this guy.
Because everybody thinks they did everything for you.
Right?
Like, literally, if this movie is the most successful thing ever, he made you.
Now, you might not think that because you're in it, but an exec will be excited.
This story came from his heart.
You know what I mean?
He gave me this story.
He gave me the most important story of his life.
Some executive is going to go, we made that person and we need a little piece of it.
Right.
And so if you're going to take that success and go fully independent, I wonder if there are people like, who the fuck does this guy think he's seen us flying by and the helicopter back in the year towers?
That's all very abstract.
I happen to know all these people.
So like Live Nation, for instance, would be the company you'd say, fuck Live Nation.
Live Nation is run by a guy named Jeff Wills, who I've known since he managed the Punchline Comedy Club in San Francisco.
He started way back then.
He's a great guy.
And during all this stuff going on, there's a ton of times where Jeff Wills would call me and say, can I help you out?
And he has helped me out in like key ways.
Like when I just shot my last special called Sorry, we didn't know where we were going to do it.
And it was pandemic and it was tricky getting venues.
And Ricky Gervais had to cancel at the Hulu in the garden.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And so Jeff Wills and his folks called me and offered it to me and they helped me make it work.
They're great folks.
And then also on the industry, FX was with me all, I was at FX for all those.
And they let you do whatever the fuck you want.
Yes, they were great, great people.
John Langraft that runs it.
FX is such an interesting place because I feel like if they had a streaming platform, they would succeed.
Whoever they have Hulu.
Now they're putting things in Hulu.
I think people don't understand what Hulu is.
I think there needs to be like an education process on do I watch old TV?
Do I watch network TV?
Do they have fancy?
Hulu is going to be maybe be the big winner because we talk about changing behavior.
Al and I talk about it.
You always just go to Netflix first instinctively.
Yeah.
I've started going.
Let me see what's on Hulu first.
Interesting.
Because they have the modern family, all the legacy shows.
But then they have shows from like FX, like what we do.
Sinbad, Hulu, and Old TV00:15:54
This is a show a bunch of people love.
Yes, that's right.
And they're part of it.
They got more cool stuff for kids.
And they also, I think, are smarter about what old stuff they keep.
Yeah.
And people get really frustrated in Netflix because it's kind of narrow.
Also, like, I think Netflix was trying to like replace TV.
We were talking about this a little bit before, but we don't want TV replace, right?
We just want the best stories.
So instead of making a million different shows, make a few that we're really interested in.
Make a couple movies and then have enough like what I call like laundry TV, like friends.
Like I already know friends.
I've watched a million times.
It's just on in the background while I'm going to sleep or something.
No, that's what I remember when I was a kid.
I watched friends.
Fucking nerd.
What a fucking loser.
Pivot, pivot, right?
Andrew Pivot.
Take a silly woman.
Could you be more lame?
I knew when I said that.
I love friends.
I love friends.
Fuck, man.
How do I be cool, Joe?
Friends stinks.
Seinfeld, that's how you'd be cool.
Just stinks.
Seasons three through seven.
Oh, wait.
You're like picky about which season.
I'm a Seinfeld cunt.
When Larry left, it just became very silly.
It's very frustrating.
When people reference seasons eight and nine, I'm like, I can't be friends with you.
You stink.
Gotcha.
So you're a Larry fan.
I'm a Larry.
I mean, Larry's my guy.
Yeah, he's the best.
He is the best.
He's just kind of getting your face with me.
With respect to Louie.
He's the true king of comedy.
He is.
I opened for Larry David years ago when he was a stand-up.
What was his stand-up like?
Brilliant and impossible to I was the MC, actually.
Okay.
And a guy named Bob Shaw was a headliner.
He was a great comic.
And Larry was this feature act.
It was in Cambridge, Massachusetts at the Catch Rising Star.
And so they told me, you have to watch this guy's whole set because he blows up and leaves a lot.
He walks off stage a lot.
He won't do a lot of times.
He won't finish his set because he gets angry.
So they said, you have to stay in the room and be ready to jump on.
And not for joy.
No, no, for safety.
Just in case he just leaves the girl.
I thought it was like, you got to see this.
They're saying, we need you to be standby.
And I didn't know anything about him.
I never heard of him.
And he instantly became my favorite comedian.
The audiences didn't know what to do with him, but he had these great bits.
Like he says, if I was complimented by Joseph Mengele, I would have liked him.
Like if he paid me a compliment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he does this thing of Larry David, your hair looks good today.
He's like, oh, really?
Dr. Mengela?
Oh, yeah, Dr. Mengela.
Thank you.
Mengela is not a bad guy.
And he does the thing about anti-Semitism at country clubs.
And he says that where he's experienced it was that sometimes when you're putting, they'll say stuff to put you off.
The guy's like, hey, Larry, how about the $6 million?
That's a pretty excessive.
No, go ahead, putt.
Putt, putt, you know, just weird stories, very funny.
Some of them that became episodes.
Oh, really?
He did a story on stage about leaving a message for a woman that was so embarrassing on her answering machine that he had to break into her apartment and steal the tape.
That was a bit of his.
It's an episode of Seinfeld.
But anyway, he was, but he would get really angry.
Like some guy would be quietly ordering a beer.
Like really, people were very polite and he'd go, how could you be so rude?
What kind of person are you?
And he just starts screaming at them and he'd throw money at people.
Take your money back and leave, you fucking animals.
And he just gets so angry.
And after a few shows, one night, he really bombed.
And the crowd was great.
They were like the best crowd we'd ever seen.
That's his problem.
And after the show, he said, he said, what'd you think of that crowd?
They were awful, weren't they?
Were they awful?
They were rude and just noisy and bad.
And it wasn't true.
But I said, Yeah, yeah, guys, just being polite.
He goes, Well, why didn't you do something about it?
You're the host you're supposed to know.
You don't control the room.
Yeah, it was a nightmare.
Have you talked about him to him about that since?
Yeah, I auditioned for the show once.
Okay.
And he said, I remember you.
I remember.
Catcherizer.
I remember we worked together.
I didn't recount to him how impossible he was.
I just said, yeah, yeah, because I was trying to get a job.
But I love, I love Larry.
He's great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's like, to me, it's like the most pure.
It's like he can't help how irritated he is.
I like that.
That's the kind of comedy I like is folks that can't help it.
Yeah.
And if I can say something about yours, which I really appreciate, please don't feel uncomfortable.
You're already wrinkling the brow, is that there's this feeling that it's falling out of you.
There are certain people that like Chris and I love Chris.
I grew up on Chris.
And Chris is like, this is how it is.
This is how it works.
That's right.
And yours is almost like, it's like, I just can't.
And there's something about it where, and I watched, you know, obviously you're coming by the cell or something like that.
And like, I kind of watch, and especially live.
When you watch something that's, you know, taped, you're like, I know that this was prepared.
But watching it live, it feels like it's just happening.
This is just happening.
Yeah, and that's a bit of fakery.
I did as well.
We all have it.
Yeah, it's a skill.
And the tricky thing is when bits start killing, because a lot of stuff that I do is uncomfortable when I start saying it.
And I'm uncomfortable because they are.
But I push through it and find a joke.
And together we find joy in a scary place.
That's what I like to do.
But when bits start killing because I know mechanically how to make them work and I know this path, I get a little smug and I start doing jokes that are like, you know, super offensive about pedophiles.
I'm just talking.
I'm like, hey, this is going to kill.
It always kills.
And then the crowd's looking at me like, what are you, why are you so confident about this?
And I forget and I forget.
And then I readjust to like, oh, yeah, this isn't easy to talk about, but let's get there together.
So that's, that's my tricky thing to manage.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wonder if it was that authenticity that kind of cut through the mess.
Like when people found you, they're like, this guy's just kind of like talking right now.
Like this, I'm going to make a weird comparison.
Go for it.
But do you know when I first saw Kings of Comedy?
I don't know if you watched this.
Great movie.
Yeah.
Great.
And I was so young.
I didn't know that Bernie was telling jokes.
And I was like, you're just watching a dude fall apart in front of you.
This is the funniest human.
He was the best.
He was the first year I ever did, the first year they ever had the Aspen Comedy Festival, which came and went.
The first year they had it, they didn't know to segregate the shows.
It's a funny thing because comedy festivals are always like they have urban nights.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they didn't just, it was a new festival.
So like, let's just put comedians together.
And there was one show that was like an all-week show that was me, Mark Maron, Bernie Mac, and Cedric the Entertainer, all four of us.
And it was one of the best shows I ever was part of to be in with those guys.
And Bernie, I mean, force.
One of the best comics ever to me is Bernie.
Have you seen the five-minute set he did for Deaf Comedy Jam?
I know it's yes, it's the best.
So Mark and I were talking about this.
Is it the best just five minutes of a performance in comedy?
No, I mean, there's been a lot of great five-minute performances.
There has, but like, it wasn't even the jokes, right?
It was him reacting to this thing that happened in the city.
He created a game of energy.
In the room, yes, he walked into, he made Def Jam into something interesting.
I mean, Def Jam was powerful.
It was like if but he turned it, he turned it into something else.
Yes.
It's like if Bill Burr Philadelphia was an audition set.
That's right.
You know what I mean?
Because Def Jam made your career.
Bill Burr Philadelphia was a one-off that got captured on camera and then blew the fuck up.
He just thought, this is the set.
I'm in it.
Let's get the fuck out.
Bernie's like, this makes or breaks my career.
People are bombing.
Fuck everything.
This is what I'm going to do for five minutes.
That's crazy to me.
Just call the audible on the biggest moment of your career and say, this is what it is.
And then bury it.
Yes.
And some, and both of those had something in common, which is not comfortable, feeling attacked, not happy to be there.
Yeah.
But in control of it.
Yeah.
And weapons, great, great jokes.
Yeah.
That's an enormous, that's, and that's lightning in a ball.
It's very hard to, yeah.
It should be hard.
Yeah.
It should be a hard thing to achieve.
Yeah.
You should, yeah.
I don't want to say like you shouldn't be able to recreate it every time, but the magic of doing it.
Yeah.
That's the tricky thing about comedy is it is a live thing.
I think that's and one problem that comedians have when they make specials, I think, is trying to get it, trying to be slick and trying to be in control.
You want it to be your great night.
You want to be like a rock star.
You want to be like Perry Como and just be like, hey, man, watch me work.
And I want to show that I'm killing and there's, you know, there's smoke in the room.
It's beautiful.
But that's not what comedy is at its best.
Sometimes it messes up.
Sometimes people interrupt.
How do you make it organic?
How do you make it pure in that moment?
Even if it's a little less funny.
Well, but also you want to be good.
You want to actually do it well.
Yeah.
But I remember I was getting ready for a special once and I thought, and I was talking to Chris Rock, who's a great mentor.
He's always giving me great advice.
And I said, I think I'm going to take a month off before I shoot so that I'm fresh.
I'd been working really hard.
And he said, that's a really dumb idea.
He said, you need to be prepared.
And I go, but I want to be fresh.
And he said, it's, I don't even, I think he made this up.
It's better to be prepared and pretend to be fresh than it is.
Then it is to be fresh and pretend to be prepared.
Do you agree?
A hundred percent.
But there is, you can move that line somewhere where it's just where you want it to be because it's just different.
It's a different product.
That's all.
Yeah.
It's great to watch a guy master a set.
Yes.
But it's also super.
One of the things I used to love listening to is Jim Florentine on XM Radio.
I like listening to XM comedy because it's just anyone can send a tape in.
And you hear some really fucking rough stuff.
Yeah.
And he was, and some of them are just don't, there's just somebody who sounds really unsure and they're talking about their family and the crowd's not with them.
Yeah.
But Florentine is in some place in Jersey and he's getting heckled.
He's like, oh, is that right, sir?
Is that right?
I'm a shit.
Well, fuck you.
And he's just, he's always sounds like he's like there's a lot of be you can smell the beer in the place.
So yeah, I like I like comedy that way too.
What do you think of Samba?
Real quick on Florentine.
Florentine had an amazing joke at the Rich Voss Roast.
Did you see the Rich Voss roast?
Yes.
He stole the show.
He's amazing.
Bro, one of his jokes was he goes, Bonnie really lived the American dream.
She moved to America and got stupid rich.
Yeah.
That's the best joke in the whole thing.
That's so amazing.
That's a great joke.
That's a great roast.
I love it.
Bonnie lines.
Bonnie goes, Bobby Kelly, you're up next if you want to start making your way up here.
That's a great roast.
Oh, dude, it was so good.
You can get it at Rich Voss Roast.
I think it's on YouTube now.
Oh, they put it on.
Oh, he's going to hate me for saying that.
Buy it there and support it.
But yeah, I love Richie's fucking way.
But yeah, Florentine has some amazing fucking videos, man.
That's good.
I love that we complimented Bonnie and Jim.
We love Rich also.
His name's in the website.
You can get it there.
You were saying about Sinbad.
Sinbad, I think.
What makes you think it's Sinbad?
Because it's always fresh.
He would go up.
I think the way he got a start is he just had somebody read the newspaper and then he did a whole five minutes on that.
And then he said, I want the joke to be different every single time.
I want if you come to two shows in a row, the joke is always a little bit different for you.
Yeah, that was my goal when I started doing stand-up.
When I found out as a young, I wanted to be a stand-up comic that the people tell the same jokes every night.
Yeah.
I was Such a bummer.
You're sad.
Yeah, it really is.
And I had a goal to do this a different show every time.
Yeah.
I never got there.
Chris, Chris broke that for me.
Rock broke that for me.
Well, yeah, because when I got more into it, I like watching guys watching how inside of it.
But when you're a child, it's all fresh to you.
It's all like the thing.
That's why I don't think any comics should do the thing that they all can't stop doing, which is I told that joke in this place.
You're not living enough.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just a big mistake.
They go, what?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've said this to other people.
Explains for the people maybe who don't know as much.
Some comics will tell a joke, and it's to make fun of a place.
So they'll make a joke that's one version of it.
There are many.
Yeah.
They make a joke about something intelligent.
I don't know what the joke is that they think is intelligent.
And then they go, I told that joke in Mississippi.
And this guy was like, what?
Or they have something that happened that was funny in the moment.
A funny exchange where they were clever to the person.
So they like, I told that joke one time, and this guy said this.
And guess what I said?
Yeah.
You're just in a mess of, what are you doing?
Why are you doing this?
I think that's an example of when you're not like living enough yourself.
Right.
Like, I think that we can get so obsessed with stand-up and only going on stage and not actually.
That's your story's about last time I was on stage.
Something's wrong.
You're going dry.
Yeah.
But Sinbad, I remember Brian Regan, who's another just electrically great comic, one of the best of all time.
Sinbad, he worked with Sinbad once, like open for him at a club for a week, like way years ago.
He told me this story that they were hanging out in the daytime.
It used to be you'd like work at a club with somebody and then you'd hang out all day.
And so like they're waiting for a bus and it's taking a long time.
And Sinbad's like, man, this bus is never coming.
And then he goes, oh, and he writes it down.
Okay.
And so then that night he watches Sinbad and he goes, Yeah, we've been waiting for the bus.
It's like, this bus is not coming.
Damn, man.
The bus never comes.
And that was it.
That was the whole joke.
Well, Norm McDonald was the all-day he would write jokes, and the jokes were just what he said during the day.
Norm McDonald said when he did Montreal with Sinbad, and again, Montreal is another thing that makes your whole career.
He has like his tight seven minutes.
Norm does it.
He's worked on forever.
Him and Sinbad are going to buy socks the day of the show or the night before the show.
And then it's like super hard to buy socks.
And then Norm goes out and does his tight seven minutes, gets in, gets out, does it like he rehearsed it a thousand times.
Sinbad goes up.
He's like, yo, why is it so hard to buy socks in Montreal?
Whole set on socks crushes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what he had.
What something that these stories tell you in common is that Sinbad hangs out.
He's a nice guy.
Yeah.
Hangs out with other comics.
Says, you want to go back?
You know, he's one of the most motivated.
Was that harder for you as you got more famous and there are more people like wanting things from you?
Like in your heyday, was it hard?
Is it hard for you?
You're the big guy right now.
No, no, I dominate most of that.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
I don't give much space for other people.
No, no, but I just feel like you were in a different position because I think you had more platforms to give opportunities.
Yeah.
You know, like when you have a show, I think every time there's an interaction, it's like you're almost auditioning.
Oh, am I going to be on this new season?
Yeah, I mean, I did give a lot of guys parts in my show.
A lot of people in my show were comics.
I love you using comedians.
Why?
First of all, I like stand-up comics.
It's my community.
I love them and I care about them.
I mean, it's goofy, but I do.
And so, and I like seeing somebody and thinking, what if you gave them a shot and seeing what happens?
Like, I remember I was in Australia.
It was the only time I ever went there.
And I went to Melbourne first and I went into a comedy club.
And it was the only place I'd been for a long time that nobody knew who I was.
And there was a young kid there named Rob something, Thomas.
Anyways, a young, really, really nerdy, nervous guy.
And all his jokes were perfect.
And the crowd was like, what is this shit?
But then they started loving his jokes.
And I was going the next night to Sydney to play the big opera house and like the only building in the whole country that anybody recognizes.
And so I said to this kid, why don't you come with me to Sydney?
Nervous Kids in Melbourne Clubs00:04:42
He opened for me.
He lost it.
And he was like, oh, he said, I have a gig in Adelaide, but I'll try to get out of it.
And he got out of his gig and I took him and I loved being in the wings.
And he was looking at his set list.
And he looked, and I said to him, I've been in this position a lot.
giving somebody a shot.
And I said, don't worry about the spectacles, just these jokes.
Just think about your jokes.
And he destroyed.
Another person like that was Lynn Copplitz, who is a woman who I love.
She's so funny.
She's great.
And she's spun her wheels for a lot of years.
She's a seller comic, works hard.
But nobody was going after Lynn Coplitz for a bigger day.
Great perspective, too.
Yes.
Like Lynn's comedic perspective, I think, is really interesting.
Really unique and very raw and real.
And I didn't even know her though.
This is how we became friends.
I was doing the garden and I had a couple openers and I thought I wanted one more.
And I just told somebody, get Lynn Coplitz tonight to open for me at the garden.
And she came to Madison Square Garden and she was serious and nervous.
I had hope for her because she wasn't like nervous, like talking.
She was just serious.
Locked in.
And she went up there and it was like a star is born.
Like she was wearing this flowy thing and she was just out to the crowd.
And they were in love with her and it killed me.
It made me so happy.
It's like the best feeling.
You're a little emotional even thinking about it.
I do.
It makes me want to cry.
It was a beautiful feeling.
We've been very close since then.
Yeah.
But that is so rewarding to me.
It's almost, in a sense, it can be better than personal success on stage because you don't get to enjoy your work that way.
You're in the middle of it.
You're in the middle.
You got to deliver.
Yeah.
You can't go like, this is great.
Yeah.
But you can do it when it's somebody else.
Yeah.
Yeah.
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It's August.
That means it is National Hair Loss Awareness Month.
And you know what?
This shouldn't even be a month because hair loss is a choice now.
That's right.
Keeps will keep that fucking hair on your head so we never have to have this stupid holiday ever again.
Keeps is going to keep everybody with a real fuzzy scalp and it's going to do it for a real bargain.
I'm telling you, they got generic versions of all the drugs.
It's so easy.
You can do all this over the phone, the online doctor visits, but you got to do it now.
You got to do it because it's preventative.
Stop the hair from going away.
I mean, the treatments can take four to six months to actually see results.
You got to do it fast.
I've been on, look how glorious my shit.
I've been on over a decade.
So what you're going to do is if you're ready to take action and prevent hair loss, go to KEEPS.com slash flagrant to receive your first month of treatment for free.
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Also, guys, Big Daisy Energy Tour still moving, still adding a few dates here and there.
But in the meantime, important announcement.
This weekend's dates in Atlantic City have been moved.
We are doing some really cool podcast shit.
You guys will see what it is soon.
But in the meantime, those dates in Atlantic City are moved to November 4th and 5th.
Losing the Formula for Humor00:15:05
So the next show I have is August 11th through 13th, Tempe, Arizona, the Tempe Improv.
Then September 9th and 10th, Orlando.
Marky's coming home.
We're going to be at the Orlando improv.
September 15th through 17th.
I'm going to be in Nyack Upstate at Levity Live in Palisades.
September 19th, 29th through October 1st.
I'm going to be in Raleigh at Good Nights Comedy Club, Raleigh or Raleigh, or however the fuck y'all say that goofy ass shit.
October 6th through 8th, Pittsburgh Improv.
And every other date that I have, we're adding some more.
I'm telling you, it's going to be fucking, we got some cool shit happening.
So go to akashsing.com for tickets.
And let's get back to the show.
Okay, so that brings us to Mr. Joe List here.
And Joe, this is going to be uncomfortable because I'm going to compliment you a little bit.
Oh, yeah.
But you're another person that I would watch at a seller and I would think is absolutely hilarious.
And I've told you this before, but I don't know if you recognize it, but one of the more fun people for me to watch because everything that you're talking about, not everything, I don't want to put that, but a lot of things you're talking about are like kind of like painful.
Yeah.
And it can be like, I'm talking about like, oh, I had this really traumatic moment as a job.
It could be something like somebody saying something about your teeth.
But I remember like watching you go up there, right?
You had a great joke about it, right?
The fucking, what was the.
Oh, maybe the Ray DeVito was going to say this.
I said, I'm really self-conscious about my teeth.
And he said, you should just get some crest whitening strips.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I meant that they're crooked.
But now it was a tablet, but thanks.
No.
I forget how the rest of the joke goes.
But it was just, it was like, I'm watching this person up there and it was like, I had two feelings.
I had one feeling, which is like a hyper focus on the things that you're insecure about.
Like, how does that affect the rest of your day?
But also, I was like, a crowd watching you can't not laugh if the jokes are funny.
Like, it is like, they don't have to experience this if you're comfortable with it.
And I'll watch you every single time there.
And I'd literally sit there and think, I'd be like, wow, man.
One, that's really difficult to do because you have to be painfully honest with your fucking self and the things you feel most insecure about and then find a way to be funny about it.
And I wonder if that is kind of what drew you to this.
That's what I love about Joe.
Yeah, is that he's very vulnerable on stage and he's very, he's, it's a very generous thing to invite people to laugh at you at the things that upset you more than anything in the world.
Not things that you're mad about.
I'm sick of this shit.
But like, I can't handle this.
Yeah.
And then he is a jokesmith.
He makes, he crafts great jokes.
He's gotten better and better at it.
The first version of Joe I ever saw was more rhythmic.
And here's a joke.
And then here's a da-da-da.
And here's a joke.
But then he got out of that and started to really breathe and talk.
That's when you get more comfortable up there, right?
When you lose the formula a little bit.
But yes, it made me very happy to take this kid to, you know, Israel.
He opened for me at the garden.
He opened for me at the forum in Los Angeles and stadiums all over the country and all over Europe, all over the world.
And it was a great, it was, and he's from where I grew up.
Yeah.
So that makes me very happy.
Okay.
Is there ever a place that you went to that like maybe was foreign and they don't understand the self-deprecation?
It was a ton.
I mean, I ate shit a lot in Europe.
It was tough.
Israel.
And then he kept being like, I want you to do that thing you said on the plane today.
And I'm like, but there's like 12,000 people.
And then Louis would be like, you fucking bailed on it, man.
You bailed.
And I'm like, well, this is unusual.
I'm doing a joke for the first time in front of 14,000 Israelis.
Yeah.
Cold, going up cold.
Yeah.
No, and he'd always be like, say that thing, the shit you said in the plane.
That's really funny.
And I'd be like, The Wizard of Oz.
What?
And I'm like, looking, like, what did I even say?
I don't know.
It's like, dance marketing.
I remember the joke.
Czech Republic, we ate shit.
I ate shit.
The Wizard of Oz joke was a, I didn't know Bill Cosby was in the Wizard of Oz.
It was the next thing I saw.
It was because, because, because.
Which is a joke I came up with when I was six.
And he's like, do that.
Yeah, no, because for me, my openers, I don't need them to kill.
I'd rather, if they do the same 10 minutes that kills every night, I'm just getting bored.
I like to watch something before I go on stage.
And it doesn't matter what they're going to do.
It doesn't matter if they come.
When I go up there, it's just that they stirred the pot and got things going.
Right, right, right.
I do like following people that kill because it makes a better room.
I kill also.
I don't want to make it sound like it sounds like I just saw it.
He was killing.
He had a killer set, and I would ask him to break it down and add new stuff and change it and try things.
Yeah, for your own personal life.
It's also terrifying, yeah, for him because it's also like, yeah, but I don't want to do this fucking story in front of 14,000 people and bomb my ass off.
Yeah.
That's right.
But I didn't care how he felt about that.
Yeah.
And I knew it was a better road to him getting for a girl.
I also had one at the garden.
So we did the garden.
Oh, yeah.
You did eight in one year, I think.
And we did, I did three with shows at the garden.
I did eight total.
I did five.
One year I did three.
One got snowed out.
And then the next year I did five.
And so they were over the same, yeah, whatever.
I did three of them.
He was using three openers during seven minutes.
And one of them, we started to become close.
And he said, it's just you tonight.
I want you to do 20.
And I think my suspicion is that it was the last show to go on sale.
Drugs of our audience.
It was the people that were finally like, all right, I guess I'll go see Louie.
Fuck it.
So, and then he had a tough set also.
So I did 20 minutes at the garden.
20 minutes.
Almost 25, I think.
And I was eating shit.
And I almost, there's a, you know how like sometimes you do a joke and one person laughs and you go, this guy got it.
I almost did that and caught myself at the garden because I did a bit.
And there was a guy in section 430 that went, haha.
And I was like, I'm not going to say that.
But literally 14,000 people and one guy up here chuckled.
And I ate, I wanted to kill myself.
And then Groupon and I went on and I was like, yeah.
And then afterwards, he had a hard set.
He Louis struggled.
And then we were like miserable after.
But I don't know.
I guess you can see in the garden there's going to be certain circumstances, but I think humor also like evolves with the country or culture that's adapting to it.
Right.
So like stand-up is like newer for certain places.
So I think the first version is like they use puppets and shit, right?
Like you look at like a Russian humor.
They're still like even early on, they're still using like these characters.
And then I wonder if what eventually happens is like they'll catch on to self-deprecation and they'll catch on to like more, I don't want to calm like sophisticated versions of humor, but I think it takes a little bit for audiences to cyclical.
In America, it's cyclical.
I mean, comedy is here to stay.
Right.
But it does go in cycles.
So there's some times where sarcasm gets very popular.
And then there's times where joke jokes get more popular and you get guys like Hedberg and Stephen Wright.
There's always a little of something.
I have a theory on that.
Yeah.
I think it's a reflection of, how do I say it?
When you can say anything, absurd things are funnier.
When you feel restricted in your speech.
That's true.
Comedy fills a need.
Yes.
Comedy is a need.
It's not just like music or something.
Music is a need.
Obviously, for some people, they just die without their love.
We always need love regardless of what's happening in your country.
But comedy is something that people need that fills a void and it heals.
So, yes.
When people need more escape, they want more absurd humor.
Yes.
When people are feeling confident, they want to go, what's really going on?
And then they dig down deeper.
Yeah.
So, and I think that's natural.
So, I mean, and I think the thing you have to do is keep being the same kind of comic and just let it hit you.
Let the sun go up and down.
Yeah.
There's some times where it's like right now, or it's got, it's coming back, but there was a time where being a contrarian, I'm going to talk about something you don't want to hear became very unpopular.
And the thing to do when that happens for me is not to like spend your time saying that these people are wrong.
It's just you're out of the sun.
You're out of the sun for a while.
Yeah.
But you keep it going because there's always also, there's somebody who, if you're some comedians get very greedy for love.
So they're like, if I'm not in the big, if I'm not in the zeitgeist, I'm failing.
But you still got your crowd.
They're still coming to see you and hear it.
So you do it for them.
And at some point, maybe the goofy people who give out awards and stuff will go, this is comedy.
But that's seasonal.
That can come and go.
But if you chase it around, you're not yourself anymore.
Yeah.
I'm always, yeah, I'm always curious about those ebbs and flows.
Do you find your, like, Joe, do you find that it wanes on you a little bit, like that hyper-focus on these things that are difficult for you?
Like, do you have to balance that emotionally?
Yeah, I guess.
I mean, sometimes it's hard.
It's so hard to talk about comedy, I think, without sounding like, well, Andrew.
I don't know.
What's the question?
I'm sorry.
I guess like the hyper focus on the vulnerable things in your life.
Does that make you maybe insecure?
Does that make you?
Well, I start to run out of them.
And then what's weird now for me is like, I used to be so anxious.
My whole life was about being anxious.
And I got that together through sobriety and meditation and stuff.
So I don't really have that anymore.
So now my act is more about a shit taking shit like sex or something.
And so it's a different kind of thing.
And that's anxiety inducing.
Yeah.
Because you're like, well, do I not have the thing that I cared about?
It's like, this is not it, but like a fat comic that loses weight.
Like, I think there are like big comics that are like scared to lose weight.
Yeah.
Cause they're like, am I going to lose the thing that I'm good at?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
No, look, I had made my first splash with stuff about my kids.
Yeah.
And I'm not in that role anymore.
My kids are growing up now.
So I had to, you know, you got to let go of stuff that's from a certain part of your life.
Yeah.
The basics are still always there that life is hard and it's lonely.
Yeah.
So you find it through different.
But yeah, the stuff I've been doing is more abstract now than yeah.
Yeah, sure.
But you had abstract even early.
Yeah, I started out with goofy, strange jokes.
Yeah.
And then I didn't like it anymore.
I didn't feel like it was, felt limited.
It wasn't, it wasn't fun.
And that wasn't as fun.
Can I piss?
Will that be a problem?
No, man.
Tank if I'm not.
Dude, dude, dude, it's a big show.
Joe, Joe, go pee.
There's no rush.
There's no anything.
Great.
Oh, God.
You think, you think that?
Okay, so like Larry found his calling, right?
It was like these ideas didn't work on stage, but they worked beautifully on film.
Yeah.
On film.
Yeah.
Can you look at a comic and go, oh, fuck.
If he, another example.
And Chappelle was like you in that like he was masterful in two mediums, right?
Sketch, but also in stand-up.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
But can you like see certain guys on stage and go, oh, fuck, those are brilliant ideas.
And on film, they would work.
Not just like the voice.
What would that person be like on film?
I think of that.
There's people like that.
Like there's a comedian in New York, Marina Franklin.
Yeah, Marina.
Marina is great.
Works out at WTF.
Yes, she does.
And I think that she should be on film doing something.
She has this wonderful musical voice and very, you just love her.
And she could be, she could, I think, could be a big star if she was on TV or movies or something like that.
So I look at people like that.
Or like this kid, Ian Feife.
Finance.
He is great.
His act is just so frenzied and he kind of runs through an idea and then dumps it.
And so he's kind of a mess on stage.
But you just, I want to see him in a movie like Dog Day Afternoon or something.
I want to watch him rob a bank or something like that.
It's the energy.
He's a great voice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that's another reason I like using comics in film because you can put them in their strong suit.
Yeah, actors are cool because they're an empty vessel.
So you can give them instruction and give them a story and a character, and they can mold it and make it into a person.
It's a great art.
But comedians are what they are.
And if you can take them and then kind of guide them through listening and through getting through scenes, and some are good at that and some aren't.
But that's that's, I love doing that.
That's really fun.
That's why I like using that.
And also, they're good pressure players.
What do you mean?
If you tell an actor, if an actress is tanking, you can't tell them.
They'll fall apart.
Yes, they will fall apart.
Yeah.
You got to say that was great.
Yeah, pill them up.
That was so good.
And just, let's try this.
And this was awful.
You're trying to get them to the thing.
But you can go up to a comedian and say, dude, you fucking stink.
That was not it.
And they go, oh, okay.
Fuck.
Because they don't want to fail.
And they're facing failure all the time on stage.
It's like every single show could go badly.
So you just go, no, that's bad.
That's bad, man.
I work better with positive reinforcement with acting because I'm so insecure about my acting.
So like, if like the key grips and shit are laughing, like I'm looking for like the people on the show.
Yeah, that's no good.
That's no good.
You got to get off that.
It's not, but I don't know.
Because the grips are just bored and they're not going to help you.
They're not your friends.
I'm literally treating it like an open mic.
I was in a movie that Woody Allen directed.
Yeah.
And I did an ad-lib and it, when he said cut everyone, I got applause because it was so funny.
And I was like, I felt really good.
And then I saw him walking towards me and I was like, no, whoops.
He was like, he was very nice, but he was like, that was good.
That was funny.
Let's do what I need here.
Let's do what's needed.
And I was like, I got it.
I got it.
And he goes, no, it's good.
Maybe I'll use it.
But let's, but give me the one that I want.
That I need.
Do you think Woody Allen did it?
None of my business.
How time we asked some fucking good questions, Jane?
What are we talking about over here?
There's a guy, very funny comic, Stavros Hulkius.
Do you know Stavros?
He's a hilarious guy.
He had a hilarious bit about Pythagoras.
Yeah.
And he's like, listen, I separate the art from the artist.
I go, what do you mean?
He goes, listen, I still use that Pythagorean theorem all the time.
What did Pythagoras do?
A squared plus B squared equals C squared.
Who could do what he was doing?
Oh.
He was asking the theorem.
You know, the hypotenuse, Louis, the hypotenuse.
I thought I was going to be the smart one for one moment.
No, he's probably fucking little boys like they all did back then.
I guess, but everybody was.
Everybody was.
Even the little boys were fucking little boys.
Is that true?
I don't know.
No, they were fucking adults.
I'm not that old.
They were fucking the adults, actually.
You're right.
Which is wrong.
Kids shouldn't fuck adults.
No, fucking listeners.
No, they're complicit in the crime.
I wonder if that made the kids feel better.
Therapist Stories and Sober Living00:05:18
Like, if you were like Michelangelo's boy and like you got to look at the you know the Sistine Chapel and yeah, could have gone anyway, though.
You don't have to Michelangelo to see the Sistine Chapel.
No, but like you saw the work and you're like, that's me.
Like, yo, you helped him get the music.
I'm the muse.
Like, I mean, maybe that was fulfilling.
Yeah.
And if the work was bad, it was like.
I got fucked in the ass, and that's what you mean.
The big reveal to the boys.
Are you fucking kidding?
Man, on the ceiling?
Fucking dude.
You should watch Starbrook's special.
It's amazing.
Yeah, check it out on YouTube.
He's really funny.
He's great.
Fourth of July.
Yes.
It's our movie.
I don't want to do the film.
Hey, tell us about it.
Whatever.
But like, can you, can you tell us about it?
I want people to know about it.
I want people to go out and support it.
And they can buy it now.
That's another thing, right?
It's going to be when is this on?
Ideally, we put it out tomorrow.
Okay.
So then Saturday.
So this coming up, okay.
It drops on my website.
Perfect.
Yeah.
LouisCK.com.
That's right.
And can you give us a breakdown of the story?
How this even came to be?
Why should people go see this?
It's like it's a fun, it's a family movie.
It's a guy like.
Well, it's about a family.
It's about a family movie.
It's not a family movie.
It's not for family.
Yeah, we say cunt and yes, cunt fuck a lot of a lot of fucking act.
That's how you pay for it in character.
We say it.
Yes.
And what is the story?
The story is about a guy who I'm much better with just singers, you know?
It's about a guy.
It's about a guy.
I got you.
It's about a guy who's a New York young fella and he's anxious, living in a river of anxiety.
He just never stops coming.
He's just, is this okay?
Is this all right?
No, I should just living that way all the time.
But he's living that way.
He's kind of on a cruise control of anxious, you know, living.
Yes.
And sober.
He's sober.
He's, you know, working at it.
He's in AA.
He's got a sponsor who he's not doing a great spot.
He's late to his sponsor meeting, and that's also a little tough for him.
And he's married and he has a nice, easy relationship with this woman that he just, that's his light.
That's his nice, that's where he's confident and happy when he's with her.
But the rest of his life is kind of a mess.
And he's also a jazz pianist and he succeeds there.
He feels good when he's playing jazz piano.
And he goes to therapy and I'm his therapist.
And he, so anyway, he just, he's, he asks his wife what he sees.
I'll tell the main scene because I think it's the turning point.
He sees his wife texting with her friend while she's in the bathroom, but he sees it on her on her computer screen and he and he sees he's about to see something and he closes it.
But it makes him anxious.
And he asks his wife, he goes, I'm just, do you say something to your friends about me that I just, I don't, is there something that you don't that?
And she just says, I am not fulfilled because we don't have a kid.
That's what I really wanted.
We never did it.
And so I'm not happy.
And he just, the last thing he expected was that it was something very real, not about him and his quirks, but your wife, your wife, the light of your life is not okay.
Yeah.
And he says, what, but why did you stop talking about having a kid?
She says, yeah, but because, and he sort of gleans from it, you don't really, you don't think I could be a dad.
And it's a horrible realization to him.
And he comes to his therapist and he says, What do I do?
And I kind of go, Well, yeah, you're, you know, it's okay.
And he realizes his therapist and his wife, everyone gave up on him ever stepping up and being a father, being a man, and that life is passing him by.
And so, he, what he keys on is that his parents, he has this terrible fear and anxiety about his parents that they, that they showed him no love, that he doesn't know how to be loved.
So, he's going to go to back home to Maine, where his parents are from Boston and they go to Maine every summer.
And he's going to confront them.
He's going to confront all this shit and he's going to get it out of himself.
So, he goes there and it's, it's just his family is just this melee of just fucking Boston ego id people that just say whatever they want and they drink like crazy and they're offended that he doesn't drink because he's sober.
Yeah.
And he's trying to find a moment where he can claim his manhood there.
And so that's really what it's about.
It's about him going home and trying to do that.
Confronting the demons.
Yeah.
And then those people are, you know, Nick DiPaulo nails this character as his uncle.
Nick.
Tony V. These two guys are like the twin towers of like fucking Boston hate.
Yeah.
And but love too.
They're mad at him for being sober because they love him and they miss when he was a loser like they are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is what it is to grow up in Boston, really.
And so it's that's him trying to deal with that.
And it's all just flailing and fucking up.
And hi Jinx and Sues.
And hi Jinx.
It's funny and it's sad and it's happen to you because you're married.
Confronting Demons and Fame00:15:02
Yeah, this sounds very autobiographical.
It's all very real.
It's a therapist, basically.
It's all very real.
There's a lot of stuff taken, a lot of actual dialogue from my real life.
And then we heightened the family, of course.
And then the mother in the movie is more like sociopathic.
Louis kind of created the mother character.
Yeah, the mother was sort of like women in Boston that I grew up around that fascinated me, these powerful women that say things in lyrical, they use big words sometimes.
Like what the one I pointed out when we were looking at it yesterday, that she says, by the grace of God, you're in this family and by my wrath, you'll be out.
You know, that's how Boston women talk.
So that mother character was this opportunity to create these.
And that the characters, like the mother is a great actress.
She's, we, we, if you populate a movie with comedians, let them sharpshoot, but then you have actors that can really drive it home.
Yeah.
And that was, and Robert Kelly is, he's obviously he's both.
Yeah.
Because Robert's a great comic, but he's actually a virtuoso actor.
Yeah.
He could do anything.
Yeah.
So he plays his sponsee.
It's really, it's a good movie.
It is damn good.
I'm damn proud of it.
And it feels, and it's not from me.
It's the thing I loved about it was I was sort of in service of Joe.
He really wanted to make a movie.
I didn't have a story in me at the time.
And so we had, we mixed some ideas that we both had, but it was really his story.
So I got to just direct and get his vision up.
I feel bad that I didn't see it before you guys came.
Yeah, you saw it.
Mark saw it.
Yeah.
He went to the theater.
Did you like it?
I did.
I thought it was wonderful.
I saw it on the, I don't even remember, on the one of the village.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I thought it was great.
Is that the East Village, though?
Yeah, Village Cinnamons.
And we premiered at the Beacon.
There was like 2,000 people.
So Joe's telling me that, and I think that's the craziest thing.
Like seeing a movie with 2,000 people, seeing an action movie when there's a couple hundred people in a movie theater feels great.
Seeing a comedy, I remember seeing the first hangover at a sold-out theater and then laughing with other people in it.
Great feeling.
It heightens it.
It's awesome.
It's fucking amazing.
Well, that's what we discovered with this.
We got a very small distributor to, we just went out to each place.
And first we did these big premieres where we got to be there and watch people laugh.
But then the great thing was hearing, because what we would do, we're sort of in the middle.
So like AMC Theaters gave us like 72 cities in one night, seven o'clock on a Wednesday, all over and then done.
But we packed all of those screenings and then added shows.
And we kept getting reports.
And he got a lot of feedback on Instagram people saying that they were there, that they loved that they were there and that they all laughed together and people would applaud at the end.
This is what's great about film.
And people keep saying, Well, the movie theaters are dying.
Well, if you give them a little blood, it all comes back because that experience is unmatched.
Yeah, we were supposed to do like one week, but we were there.
It just kept holding over that the Lemley in LA kept getting held over, kept getting held over here.
And then these one-night screenings kept moving around to different cities and packing the places.
Joe said that they were blown away by the amount of money it made.
And I won't say that the number because I know how sensitive you are with that, but it was like multiple times.
It did, but it's not a lot of money.
But for theaters aren't a lot of theatrical release, we did way better than we expected.
And this is with really, we didn't really advertise very much.
No promo, your email list.
The email list and then his and his social media stuff and a few podcasts.
And but it was word of mouth.
The thing that was crazy was watching the theaters where it was in consecutive nights, it would increase every night.
And we realized that we hit on something for people that they're into.
The guy who distributed is a very old school guy.
He said he was liked it because it's a non-algorithmic movie.
It doesn't have a thing like a person's name or an issue.
It's just a movie about failing people.
And you can work this algorithm is supposed to be so genius, but it is limited because it only knows what it knows.
It doesn't know anything outside of itself.
It doesn't have the ability to include something like, well, no one thought that was going to work.
And it's all an experiment for me.
I'd never done a theatrical release independently.
And this is the first time I've put a movie on my website.
And it's the first time we've done those two both things.
It was theatrical first.
So I don't know how it's going to do.
Was it cool to see laughs?
Oh, sorry, go.
Yeah, probably a similar question.
What's it like watching your movie crush versus crushing as a stand-up?
It was weird because we found, first of all, it's about my life.
So it's drama to me.
And the whole time we were writing, Louis was like, we're writing a comedy.
And I'm like, no, we're writing a drama.
It's a classic thing.
It reminds me of the Mel Brooks story about, you ever see they asked him between comedy and drama?
And he says, drama is I get a paper cut on my thumb and I'm bleeding and I get a band-aid and I call my wife and I keep pouring peroxide on it and I'm checking on it.
That's drama.
Comedy is you're walking down the street and you fall in a hole and die.
What do I care?
What do I care?
So that's how I felt.
I was like, this is a drama and it's all very dramatic.
And we cut out a lot of jokes and then we played it at the theater at the beacon and there was huge laughs in places.
Thousands of people.
That's another thing.
Like, you don't watch movies in front of thousands of people.
Well, and the Beacon Theater was a movie theater.
It was open as a movie theater and it was a movie theater all the way till the 70s from like the 20s to the 70s.
So that's how people used to watch movies together and the rich people down there, the poor people up here, and everybody watched together.
Now it's how they watch stand-up.
That's right.
In my theater, I got a laugh before the movie even started.
Like just from the text that comes up on screen.
I want to say about this, but there's just a text on it that comes on like in the very intro.
I got a big laugh.
I think that's cool is because sometimes those moments, like, it's, and it's an edit, really.
It's like an editor's choice to like put a reaction here gets this big explosive laugh that you would never fucking think because you're like painstakingly looking over every line that you say and every delivery of this.
And sometimes people are just engaged by the character.
Sometimes the character just being themselves in the moment is what's going to end up.
That's right.
And I didn't know what I had with Joe.
I thought I was prepared for needing to teach him how to, the basics of acting and how to not just be waiting to deliver your funny but to, and he's the lead character.
So he can't, he can't be a sniping comic just with moments that you can cut around.
He had to carry the movie.
Yeah.
And so I had no idea how it would be, but I was dug in for I'm going to have to, you know, because my thing is, it's not, we're going to get it.
It's going to be good, but how long is it going to take?
That's all good.
So if you suck, my movie's not going to be bad.
Yeah.
You're just going to be here all day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'll figure it out.
I'll use other people and I'll figure out how I'm going to cut it that I'm going to get around you that you suck.
How much does it mean?
But he, but yeah, I just want to finish it so you can.
Please, please, yeah, yeah.
Why I said it, he was an automatic.
He was just, he was an easy automatic.
It was, it was such a, first of all, a huge relief and it let me put attention on everything else that was going on.
I'd just be like, yeah, he's got it.
He's got it.
Every take.
A virtuoso, if you will.
He was just there, but not just that he was playing himself, which isn't as easy as it sounds.
It's harder.
It is, I think, in a sense, but also just the way he listened to folks.
It made me comfortable knowing I can always cut to him if nothing else is working because he's really in it.
And I feel for him in every shot.
And he's funny.
I wonder if it's easier for comics to do drama because when we're on stage, a lot of times we're being serious about these things.
They just happen to be funny.
Yeah, a good comic is a comic who's believable, who's really in it.
So that, yes, they are better as dramatic actors.
And then being a comedic actor is being serious about something that you know is absolutely ridiculous.
Like the Will Farrell is he's playing a character, but the character believes everything.
The character is not trying to be funny.
He's not trying to say like a clip or whatever like that.
So I think sometimes you see comics do these like dramatic roles, you're like, how the fuck do they pull that off?
And it's like, well, that's closer to stand-up.
And it also probably removes the, I don't need laughs where we always have that need.
Like, if I'm not getting laughs, I'm getting insecure.
I'm starting to whatever, overact or whatever.
If it's a drama and I don't hear the key grips laughing, who cares?
They're not supposed to laugh.
So all that weight is off me.
Now we're just in this thing and living in the moment like we would on stage.
Yes.
Yeah.
And my, I'm like a straight man, essentially, in the movie.
How annoying is that, though?
It was fun for me.
I mean, because I've been there.
I've been to dark places.
I was just trying to recreate these dark things.
It's easier to act.
I mean, that's like a famous quote from Peter Sellers.
Peter Sellers.
Peter Sellers said, it's easy to pretend to be serious.
You can't pretend to be funny.
Yes.
So it's a lot easier to pretend to be in it.
Upset.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
I have a question for you.
The industry acceptance, when you were like on your mountaintop, the industry, you, especially because you worked your way up through the industry and that's the only way to get in.
In the industry, you were the darling.
Everything this guy does is amazing, groundbreaking, et cetera.
Is that addictive?
Because after 2017, it's not there anymore, but you're still putting out the same product.
The fans still like it the same.
So is that something that you feel like, man, fuck, I missed that?
Or is it like, no, I'm still putting out the same product?
And I was in very one of the better.
Yeah.
Fire him.
He was a proof.
What if you switched seats?
That might be better.
At least try.
That's a great idea.
That way you could kind of.
Yeah, I'm going to.
I like your question from over there better, though.
Oh, it's the chair.
It's too late.
It might be the chair.
Yeah, yeah.
Who is that on your?
I get sent sweatshirts and then shouts to Alexander Papas.
He sent me this statement.
It's a cosh.
He's the comedian.
Who's in there?
He's a comedian.
But is he a funny?
It's very funny.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you for coming.
You got to get more than just good questions, dude.
You got to sign at least.
You got to watch a coach.
You got to watch Style.
I do.
There's a lot of guys I don't know.
A lot of people.
There's more than serious XM with comedy.
Yes.
Your question was, oh, yeah.
So it was actually a great discovery for me because I didn't know what it would be like because when you're there and we're taking private jets to do stadiums, which is kind of a grind.
It's not really what got me into comedy was the big stuff.
And I'm also never been comfortable with big fame, the big like, oh my God, fame is just, it doesn't make me feel like a person.
I like feeling like a person.
So when somebody treats you bigger than that or less than that, both stink to me.
Yeah.
It just makes me uncomfortable.
I don't, I can't, I don't identify with that.
And the industry, I knew it from, I mean, I've been doing this for 37 years.
So that I was in it long enough to know that when I was getting a lot of acceptance from there, I was like, yeah, right.
Like, I know this is short-lived.
I know this is conditional.
Yeah.
And I know a lot of it is just wind.
You know, it's not really, but again, it's, there's actual human beings involved.
I had partners in the industry who had really meaningful relationships with who I'm really grateful to, like FF, like FX.
Yeah.
I mean, FX, even after my series, Louie, is on my website now.
They let me have it.
Yeah.
And I mean, I paid for that.
I paid them.
But they did.
That's an unusual thing.
They took it down from every other service and they gave it to me.
And you can only get on my website now.
That was a really great thing.
And they did that for me.
So that was a human thing to do.
But anyway, what I found out was when I just needed to just work again and sometimes just comedy clubs, there is this fear when you're up there.
If I ever had to just go back to the funny bone, sitting next to the soda machine as it out into the room, the smell of fried food, I may just have to kill myself if I go back.
But I got back there and I was so happy.
I loved it because I just love telling the fucking jokes.
And I'm closer to the crowd.
And the money you make as a stand-up selling out a comedy club over a weekend is ridiculous.
It's that it's close to my that's enough point.
Yeah.
It's just, I mean, they give you the whole fucking door and it's insanely good money.
So money-wise, I was like, I can live on that.
Yeah.
I, and then make it.
And the fans pay less, which is something that's right.
And then when you make, and then you make, and then when you get little bumps, like, hey, I'm back in the theaters.
This is so fucking fun.
Didn't know if I'd be back in the theaters, but it's just doing the work was plenty.
I don't miss that shit at all.
The being the mountaintop, a mountaintop is a place you visit.
You don't fucking live there.
You don't live in a tent sucking oxygen.
It's actually not fun up there.
It's a goal, but it's not a life.
It's a place to visit and it's a place to be seen from miles around.
So you can collect.
I have fans now from a lot of different places.
I have fans all over Europe.
I play all over the world because of the opportunity I was given by those people in Hollywood to get up high.
But now I've got, they're with me.
I was smart enough to collect them on my own to find a way to get directly to them.
Did you guys?
I don't miss being like shit, red carpets and being on lists and that kind of stuff.
I think comics are too self-aware to enjoy that.
To enjoy that stuff?
That like red carpet treatment.
A lot of people.
Some people love it.
A lot of them love it.
Some people need that.
They like that's their indicator that they are alive.
That's their indicator that they're going, that they're doing something.
I think that's sad.
That's not, that's not sustainable.
And it's also not based on you.
It's based on a trend.
I got a lot of attention that didn't, I didn't have coming to me.
Yeah.
I'm proud of the work I did, but I'm, it's got, it was like, are you kidding me?
Like when I saw comics looking at me going like, dude, enough.
I agreed with them.
I'm like, I'm sure you were.
It's just like it was enough already.
And it was like, oh, you know, you don't want to be that guy.
Right.
You know, so there's a Jerry Seinfeld to quote your boy.
Jerry Seinfeld was accepting an award.
My boy.
Yeah.
We accept the award for something.
I forget what it was, man.
Peabody award or something.
That's a great video.
It's like the Philly bird thing.
It was, and he's up there and he goes, I don't want to be here.
I want to be in the back with a bunch of comics making fun of this whole stupid thing that we're all here for.
And yeah, that's, that's what you have.
And I think that's what we have.
I mean, it's stupid.
The red carpet thing is dumb.
All of it is dumb.
If the people, what the fuck else do you need?
You don't need these five guys.
You don't need that.
You don't need the press.
You don't need them saying that.
There are good versions of all of that.
It's cool to read a review of your work that's well written, that's thoughtful, that's positive.
Sure, that feels good, but I would, if it's between that and the audience getting off on it, not even the audience loving and coming, but the audience get knowing that you're hitting them.
Yeah, then the rest of it can go fuck itself.
It's meaningless.
I have a follow-up based on what you said about getting your own emails and not liking the mountaintop.
Did you do that knowing I don't want to be here for long?
Did you do that with like, I'm getting the fuck out of this whole thing that I'm in?
Well, I know that people don't stay up there.
That's always been clear to me.
So you always knew that was temporary.
He said it in an opioid Anthony interview.
They're like, they're like, you're doing, you got private jets.
You got all this kind of stuff.
And you're like, yeah, it's not going to last for a while.
Pearl Jam Fans and Voice00:04:33
Can't.
When I first got my show at FX, which wasn't dead right.
Dead right.
When I first got my show at FX, John Langraff, who became my friend, who runs the place, he just sent me, he asked me if I'd ever seen The Shield.
It was their first big success.
Great show.
So he sent me 10, it was DVDs then, sent me all of the 10 seasons.
And I lost my mind watching The Shield.
Yeah, yeah.
I watched all 10 seasons and I was obsessed with every character and every actor.
And you can tell when they're making the show, the way they walk on the set, they're like, I'm on a hit.
I'm on a hit.
I can do anything after this.
None of those people are working anymore.
None of them.
Michael Chicklis is a monster.
You can't even see his face.
And all those other ones, they were like, you know, I mean, some of them, Walton Goggins is like, fine, keeps finding work and he's a great voice.
But they're not what they were on that show.
And they were winning everything.
And they were all anybody was talking about.
And that's not a bad story.
That's a good story.
You get to be this shining thing, but you got to give it up.
You got to be willing to give it up and dismount.
You know, I was dismounted.
It's a little different than dismounted.
And I'm grateful for that because I don't know.
I don't know what I, I don't know what it would have been like.
I don't know.
I did prepare for it well.
That's, yeah, yes, I did.
But, but the trip down, no matter how it's done, I think is rough for anybody.
Is it cool?
Nobody gives it up on purpose.
Nobody goes like that's snuff.
Yeah.
Only George Washington.
That's right.
Pearl Jam.
Did they give it up, though?
They actively stopped doing interviews, stopped making music videos, and made themselves much smaller.
And now they're a huge touring band.
They can still do stadiums here and there.
They'll do Fenway Park or Safe Go Field.
Yeah.
But a lot of people, well, I'm a big Pearl Jam guy.
I've seen them 42 times and I'll say, I'm going to Pearl Jam.
They go, Pearl Jam, are they together?
Because they have a very, they sell out.
We go to all the shows.
You meet people that go, oh, I'm seeing six shows, eight shows, but they're not.
They're putting out records that kick ass.
But there's no Grammys.
There's no Platinum Records.
When I learned that from guys that I like Stephen Wright, I came from Boston and he was the first phenom out of Boston in the 80s.
And everybody loved Stephen Wright.
He was in, he was in Tarantino movies.
He was, you know, made it, he got an Oscar for a short film.
He was just, you know, shit and gold.
And then he found this perfect cruising altitude.
He still today goes out to all the best cities, works really sweet theaters, and makes a damn good income just doing that.
And it's about his fans and his voice.
And, you know, so he got big enough for that cruising altitude to be pretty decent.
Now, what comic teams be straddling both worlds well is Burr.
Burr's got the love.
He's got the industry, but he also doesn't seem to care about any of it.
He's doing his own thing, got his podcast, still got his Netflix specialists, but just like, I'm doing me all the shit.
But it seems like he's right out of the crosshairs of like mainstream news.
And I think that's kind of where you want to be.
Like when you become the thing that gets clicks for a headline, like that's what I mean, it was Rogan goes through all the fucking time.
Now Elon's going through it.
But it's like, when you get to operate in, I want to make my cool shit and put it out and people enjoy it.
That's the best.
But it keeps you going.
And the other stuff is you live or die by it.
And it's very tumultuous.
It's like heavy, heavy turbulence.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so it's not a good way to, it's not a good way to live.
It's a good thing to ride for a minute.
Yeah, yeah.
And then people remember, man, that guy rode that for a little while.
But I did also, when I was up there, I did say no to stuff that I thought would be like, that's going to put me beyond where I can get home from it.
Oh, really?
You know, like what?
Somebody asked me if I wanted to be George Jetson in a live action.
Yeah.
That's my one impression.
I did the Jetsons vehicle.
That's fucking independent.
It's so good.
It's a great impression.
It's also Eclipse.
There was a rumor you were going to be in the new Wakanda movie, the new black thing.
Yeah, you were going to replace.
That's right.
Yeah, Chad, you said no to that for some reason.
I don't like black people.
I thought that was some reason.
No offense.
Listen, I know you guys probably got to go.
I don't want to take up any more of your time.
Nothing?
Okay.
Black guy has no questions.
Let's see the film.
See the film.
What's the job?
Push the film.
We're obviously huge fans, both of you guys.
And thank you guys very much for taking the time.
I really do admire what you guys are doing.
And I'm really grateful for what you did.
And I know it's uncomfortable, the brows furrowing, but I mean this sincerely, that I wouldn't be able to do it without you doing it.