Flagrant - Andrew Schulz & Akaash Singh - The Last Dance: Episodes 3 & 4
Aired: 2020-04-27
Duration: 01:33:08


=== Prince Girl Dating Drama (05:51) ===

[00:00:00]  I tried to justify these two girls that I followed to my girl last night.
[00:00:04]  So she looks at the people you follow?
[00:00:07]  You're crazy.
[00:00:08]  I think every girl doesn't do that.
[00:00:09]  Yeah, but if she brings it up, that's a different thing.
[00:00:11]  Nah, she didn't bring it up.
[00:00:13]  I, for some reason, I was like scrolling and I think she saw me kind of like stop.
[00:00:18]  Oh, you never stop.
[00:00:20]  I'll purposely open my Instagram and just like keep the same tempo, even if it's a bad boy.
[00:00:27]  And then I'll stop on a dude.
[00:00:29]  Like, oh, let me see what he's doing.
[00:00:30]  Yeah.
[00:00:31]  So just so this, this is what she stakes how I scroll Instagram.
[00:00:37]  You scroll at the tempo, then you keep track of the name.
[00:00:40]  You don't know nothing about it.
[00:00:41]  Shut the fuck up.
[00:00:42]  What the fuck you talking about?
[00:00:45]  You only got to be so following cricket players and shit like that.
[00:00:54]  Has there been another person like Dennis Robinson?
[00:00:58]  Game-wise?
[00:01:00]  No, no, no.
[00:01:01]  Not just game-wise.
[00:01:03]  Who he was as a human being, not only in sports, in entertainment.
[00:01:09]  Has there been another person like him?
[00:01:10]  Person.
[00:01:11]  I'm not just talking about in athletics.
[00:01:13]  Person like Dennis Robinson since.
[00:01:15]  Close Antonio Brown.
[00:01:19]  How so?
[00:01:20]  Make the argument.
[00:01:21]  Make the argument.
[00:01:22]  Parties, acts wild, does whatever, shows up, works harder than everybody out there.
[00:01:28]  Now, he's more destructive than Robin, but Robin also needed to be like held in check.
[00:01:33]  And I think Antonio Brown on the Patriots would have been like Robin on the Bulls.
[00:01:37]  Like, I'm partying.
[00:01:38]  I want attention.
[00:01:39]  I seek attention, whatever.
[00:01:41]  But end of the day, I'm going to outwork everybody.
[00:01:44]  That is interesting.
[00:01:45]  But was Antonio Brown doing this prior?
[00:01:47]  We didn't know this version of Antonio Brown until he got kicked off.
[00:01:51]  We knew a little bit, but he wasn't like Robin.
[00:01:54]  It wasn't like Robin.
[00:01:54]  Robin was like international news.
[00:01:56]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:01:56]  Right?
[00:01:57]  Kim Jong-un likes Rodman.
[00:01:59]  Yes.
[00:01:59]  Yeah.
[00:02:00]  I mean, I don't think it was the first call he made to the Bulls.
[00:02:03]  Yo, it might have been, yo.
[00:02:05]  Man, get out of here.
[00:02:06]  You don't think Kim Jong-un was like, can I get Jordan?
[00:02:08]  And they're like, you probably can't get Jordan.
[00:02:10]  Can I get Scotty?
[00:02:11]  You can't get Scotty.
[00:02:12]  He over Scotty, yo.
[00:02:13]  You want to hang out with Robin over Scotty.
[00:02:15]  Who you want to hang out with?
[00:02:17]  Maybe, maybe.
[00:02:18]  Doesn't matter.
[00:02:18]  Back to Robin.
[00:02:20]  I don't know if there's a good comparison, but I would say Takashi 6ix9.
[00:02:24]  Ooh.
[00:02:25]  So he wasn't an athlete, of course, but really.
[00:02:29]  His ability to still make bangers while living the wildest fucking life.
[00:02:35]  Yeah.
[00:02:36]  Like, I just think he was excelling in both areas.
[00:02:39]  So in music, he was excelling, and then he was just living wild.
[00:02:43]  That's an interesting one.
[00:02:44]  I haven't heard about Takashi.
[00:02:45]  I think Takashi is interesting.
[00:02:47]  I don't think there's been another person that's like Dennis Robin.
[00:02:52]  If you think about what Robin was doing, like, Robin was doing shit that's still taboo now, back before people even knew what the fuck it was.
[00:03:00]  Robin was dressing in drag, right?
[00:03:02]  This is a black man.
[00:03:05]  Lipstick.
[00:03:06]  Lipstick.
[00:03:07]  Wedding dress.
[00:03:08]  Dying his hair crazy.
[00:03:10]  Wearing leather pants.
[00:03:11]  Like, this is a black man in the fucking 90s doing this, right?
[00:03:16]  Now, if you're a rock star, you're one of these like white rocker dudes who like bangs his fucking like bandmates, but also is like straight, kind of, like, it's not that crazy.
[00:03:26]  We're talking about a black man in sports.
[00:03:28]  Black dudes in the 90s did not do that.
[00:03:31]  No one did that.
[00:03:32]  Barely now.
[00:03:33]  Barely now.
[00:03:34]  In the 90s, you just never ever saw it.
[00:03:36]  Now, if you're in New York, you'll see that shit.
[00:03:39]  I don't think even in New York in the village, you'd have seen that.
[00:03:42]  No.
[00:03:43]  I mean, you might have from some actual gay guys.
[00:03:45]  But like this guy.
[00:03:46]  So Dennis Rodman is out here.
[00:03:49]  He is completely unbelievable in his antics.
[00:03:54]  Yeah.
[00:03:54]  Right?
[00:03:54]  Like, he's dating Madonna.
[00:03:57]  I don't think people understand what that means.
[00:03:59]  Madonna was at that time the biggest artist in the world, probably.
[00:04:03]  Late 90s, too?
[00:04:05]  Yeah.
[00:04:06]  She was probably also.
[00:04:07]  She started like Britney Spears when Britney was in her prime.
[00:04:10]  Also, it's not late 90s.
[00:04:12]  He's dating Madonna when he's with the Spurs.
[00:04:14]  So mid, 95, 96.
[00:04:15]  91 or 92.
[00:04:17]  Nah, he's pissed into like 93, 94, something like that.
[00:04:19]  No, 91, 92.
[00:04:21]  He got the rings, maybe 93.
[00:04:22]  Okay, so mid, mid, mid.
[00:04:25]  He's dating fucking Madonna.
[00:04:27]  People don't understand.
[00:04:28]  Madonna is massive.
[00:04:29]  One of the biggest artists in the history of the game.
[00:04:31]  Right.
[00:04:31]  Right?
[00:04:31]  Yeah.
[00:04:31]  Takashi6ix9ine barely dating Instagram thoughts.
[00:04:34]  True.
[00:04:35]  Right?
[00:04:35]  Like, this guy's dating the biggest artist, one of the biggest artists of all time, and the biggest artist at the time, right?
[00:04:42]  And bangers is not the same as five rings, three after he started acting.
[00:04:47]  It's hard making a hit.
[00:04:48]  No, no, no.
[00:04:48]  It's hard making a hit.
[00:04:49]  And I hear what you're saying, but I also hear what you're saying.
[00:04:51]  It's different things to it.
[00:04:52]  But then he dates when he's with the Bulls Carmen Electra.
[00:04:57]  I don't think people realize.
[00:04:58]  Carmen Electra was that bitch.
[00:05:01]  She was that bitch.
[00:05:02]  But was she?
[00:05:03]  She thought she was like becoming that bitch.
[00:05:05]  Shaw probably helped her become that bitch.
[00:05:06]  She was awesome.
[00:05:07]  She was one of them bitches.
[00:05:08]  She was already Prince's girl.
[00:05:11]  She started out as Prince's girl.
[00:05:13]  Oh, really?
[00:05:13]  Yeah.
[00:05:14]  Okay, I thought that came after.
[00:05:15]  No, she started out as Prince's girl.
[00:05:17]  Then she got on MTV.
[00:05:18]  I think she took over for Jenny McCarthy, was singled out.
[00:05:20]  Maybe something.
[00:05:21]  And then she just became sex.
[00:05:23]  She was sex personified.
[00:05:24]  Yeah.
[00:05:25]  Right?
[00:05:25]  So you go from Madonna to the next sexiest bitch, right?
[00:05:30]  You're out partying all of them, right?
[00:05:33]  Okay.
[00:05:34]  Dressing whoever the fuck you want, nail polish, tattoos, liprick, belly button ring.
[00:05:40]  You're defying all these cultural standards of masculinity while you're in this sport that's supposed to personify masculinity.
[00:05:47]  Yeah.
[00:05:47]  All forgiven because you don't care what motherfuckers think about you.

=== Duncan The Enigma Fits Bulls (03:29) ===

[00:05:52]  Maybe you deeply do care and that's why you're rejecting it, but it doesn't matter, right?
[00:05:56]  All the while winning motherfucking rings, right?
[00:06:01]  Defensive MVP, best rebounder ever in the history of the game.
[00:06:06]  People forget about the Spurs season.
[00:06:08]  You know, he averaged 17 rebounds a game in the Spurs season.
[00:06:11]  Wait for it.
[00:06:12]  Didn't even start all the games.
[00:06:16]  He didn't even start every game.
[00:06:18]  You had Duncan and Robinson on the team.
[00:06:21]  Duncan wasn't on the team.
[00:06:22]  Yes, he was.
[00:06:25]  Yes, he was.
[00:06:25]  Look it up.
[00:06:28]  I don't think so, yo.
[00:06:29]  Look up Duncan and Robinson and see if they were on the team.
[00:06:32]  Duncan got drafted.
[00:06:33]  Robinson was.
[00:06:33]  Robinson didn't like Rodman.
[00:06:34]  That was a big point of contention.
[00:06:36]  Sure.
[00:06:36]  I think Duncan got drafted like 97, 98, something like that.
[00:06:39]  Look at what year Tim Duncan was on the anyway.
[00:06:44]  Point is 97.
[00:06:46]  Are you sure?
[00:06:47]  Yeah.
[00:06:47]  Yeah.
[00:06:48]  Oh, man.
[00:06:49]  I looked out of shit up.
[00:06:50]  Anyway, I was reading some article that said he has.
[00:06:52]  Can we say one thing?
[00:06:53]  Yeah.
[00:06:53]  You got to take back what you said about not wanting to 100% Rodman.
[00:06:56]  That's where I was going for.
[00:06:57]  That's where I was going to.
[00:06:58]  Yo.
[00:06:59]  I said, I don't want to hear anything about any other, any other player, but I forget how fucking interesting everyone on that team was.
[00:07:07]  I mean, everyone, maybe not.
[00:07:09]  Maybe not Pippin.
[00:07:10]  I want more episodes on Phil.
[00:07:12]  I'm fascinated by Phil.
[00:07:14]  Yeah.
[00:07:16]  I still.
[00:07:16]  Keep your stand, Robin.
[00:07:17]  Okay.
[00:07:18]  So we'll say Robin.
[00:07:19]  We'll stay on Robin, right?
[00:07:21]  Rodman.
[00:07:23]  Okay.
[00:07:25]  And again, I completely take back whatever the fuck I said about not wanting to see any other characters.
[00:07:30]  That's fine.
[00:07:30]  I still find Jordan to be the most interesting one, but Rodman is the most fascinating, one of the most fascinating human beings in history.
[00:07:37]  This is unbelievable.
[00:07:38]  So I'm looking at this guy.
[00:07:40]  I'm like, there is no version of him now.
[00:07:42]  Some people said Kanye.
[00:07:43]  Was that you that said Kanye?
[00:07:44]  No.
[00:07:45]  Some people have said Kanye.
[00:07:46]  I find it interesting.
[00:07:47]  Kanye might have done the opposite version of what Rodman did.
[00:07:50]  So like Rodman pushed back against the stereotypes of masculinity by going like gay with it.
[00:07:56]  And Kanye is pushing him back against the stereotypes of blackness in America by going maybe conservative or MAGA with it, right?
[00:08:05]  You're still rejecting what you're not allowed to be in an effort to be free.
[00:08:09]  And if you like, look at a lot of Kanye's language, like, I want to be able to do whatever I want.
[00:08:14]  I want to have that ability to be free.
[00:08:15]  I want to do these things.
[00:08:16]  Like, Rodman said that a lot too.
[00:08:19]  Yeah.
[00:08:20]  Right?
[00:08:20]  And he needed that liberation.
[00:08:22]  He needed that leash.
[00:08:23]  He needed that extra long leash.
[00:08:25]  It was interesting that Madonna was the one that was like...
[00:08:27]  Got it out of him.
[00:08:28]  Yeah.
[00:08:30]  She's a lot like that.
[00:08:31]  Son, Madonna's like white Erica Badu.
[00:08:34]  Think about it.
[00:08:34]  Erica Badu got to what every guy and flipped their ass.
[00:08:38]  What was the outcast dude dressed normal?
[00:08:40]  Andre three sacks.
[00:08:41]  Dressed normal to Erica Badu.
[00:08:43]  Got him.
[00:08:43]  Common came out of that.
[00:08:44]  That was a motherfucker dressed like an accordion.
[00:08:45]  What?
[00:08:45]  Common had this weird ass album, Electric Circus.
[00:08:47]  It was while he was.
[00:08:48]  Oh, yeah.
[00:08:49]  Erica Badu got fuck you up pussy.
[00:08:51]  Absolutely.
[00:08:51]  Real talk.
[00:08:52]  Absolutely.
[00:08:52]  But Madonna, Lenny Kravitz, Dennis Rodman.
[00:08:55]  Who else?
[00:08:56]  Vanilla Ice.
[00:08:58]  She did?
[00:09:00]  Legends.
[00:09:01]  Anyway.
[00:09:02]  So you got this guy.
[00:09:03]  You got this guy.
[00:09:05]  Son, it's hard to make hits, bro.
[00:09:06]  You say it's hard to make hits.
[00:09:07]  Ruined everyone's career.
[00:09:10]  So you got this guy who is a complete fucking enigma, right?
[00:09:15]  And somehow.
[00:09:20]  I said enigma.

=== Machine Man Earns Trust (06:11) ===

[00:09:21]  Okay, relax, y'all.
[00:09:23]  Fuck, yo.
[00:09:24]  Come on, son.
[00:09:26]  I didn't say Enigma.
[00:09:31]  So he's a complete Enigma, right?
[00:09:36]  And somehow he fits into the Bulls.
[00:09:38]  Right.
[00:09:39]  Right?
[00:09:40]  And we have to look at how the fuck he fits in the Bulls.
[00:09:43]  We understand why he doesn't fit into the Spurs, right?
[00:09:46]  Spurs are ultimate team first.
[00:09:50]  There's a reason why most people didn't know Kawhi's greatness is because the greatness gets swallowed up by the team, right?
[00:09:57]  You can't be yourself within the Spurs.
[00:09:58]  You are part of the machine and they do great because of it, but you're part of the machine.
[00:10:02]  Right.
[00:10:03]  Rodman's individuality didn't exist with the Spurs.
[00:10:09]  I don't think that was Popovich either because I don't know if he was coaching then.
[00:10:11]  I think he's Robinson.
[00:10:12]  But Robinson's a fucking, he's a Navy guy.
[00:10:16]  Robinson was like an admiral.
[00:10:17]  He's the admiral.
[00:10:18]  He's from the Navy.
[00:10:19]  So he's like, I'm not, what is this?
[00:10:20]  Shit.
[00:10:21]  Get it out of here.
[00:10:22]  Get it out of here.
[00:10:22]  Yeah.
[00:10:23]  Yeah.
[00:10:23]  And so it was like you have this situation where it couldn't exist.
[00:10:27]  And while he wants to finally entertain this side of him that he got the balls to lean into, he can't do it with the Spurs.
[00:10:36]  But I don't think that that's just it.
[00:10:39]  We know that Robin has these mental problems with the Pistons, right?
[00:10:42]  Yeah.
[00:10:42]  He's got mental problems in general, right?
[00:10:45]  And like a lot of people who have kind of mental issues, they gravitate towards athletics because it takes extreme focus.
[00:10:55]  Yeah.
[00:10:56]  And I think what happens is when you're in the heat of battle, the only thing you can think about is that game.
[00:11:04]  And it takes you out of all these horrible thoughts that you have going around your head, similar to music, right?
[00:11:09]  Like a lot of times people with mental issues gravitate toward music because they can get lost in playing the music.
[00:11:15]  And I think what happens is when you're in the heat of the battle and you experience not just regular season, but championships.
[00:11:24]  Yeah.
[00:11:24]  Once you experience championships, that's the condom off.
[00:11:27]  You fucking raw.
[00:11:29]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:11:29]  Right?
[00:11:30]  Yeah.
[00:11:30]  You fucking raw.
[00:11:32]  Once you put the condom back on, which is regular season, they don't have the same stakes.
[00:11:37]  Right, right, right.
[00:11:38]  Right?
[00:11:39]  So he goes to the Spurs and they did fine.
[00:11:41]  I think they made playoffs and stuff.
[00:11:43]  But you can't be yourself.
[00:11:47]  You can't be that bird that needs to fly.
[00:11:49]  And you're playing regular season games and you're getting fucking teed up.
[00:11:52]  Why are you getting teed up?
[00:11:53]  Because it doesn't matter.
[00:11:55]  Yeah.
[00:11:55]  None of these games matter, right?
[00:11:57]  He was playing with the Bulls, right?
[00:12:01]  Scotty goes down.
[00:12:04]  He has that moment with, you know, Jordan where he goes to the hotel room, whatever it is, basically to apologize, but doesn't apologize, asks for the cigar.
[00:12:10]  But Jordan looks at it like an apology.
[00:12:12]  And all of a sudden, he's focused, right?
[00:12:14]  Yeah.
[00:12:14]  Why?
[00:12:15]  Because the stakes were high again.
[00:12:17]  Pippin comes back, falls apart again.
[00:12:19]  Doesn't fall apart.
[00:12:20]  He just knows he's not needed.
[00:12:22]  He knows he could coast.
[00:12:24]  It doesn't mean anything.
[00:12:25]  He even says something in the documentary where he was like, nah, none of these games make a difference.
[00:12:29]  I'm just bored.
[00:12:29]  I got to try to find some way to.
[00:12:31]  Yeah.
[00:12:32]  Right?
[00:12:33]  It didn't occupy enough of this.
[00:12:35]  Playoff intensity, locked in.
[00:12:37]  Pippin goes out, locked in.
[00:12:40]  The second Pippin's back, it's easy.
[00:12:45]  I don't look at it exactly like that.
[00:12:47]  I thought, I mean, based on whatever, like I saw some made-for-TV movie about Dennis Rodman when I was a kid.
[00:12:53]  It was whack, but what I basically figured out about him is he just didn't have a father.
[00:12:58]  Like that, he had no family structure.
[00:13:00]  He had nobody that loved him.
[00:13:02]  The family that kind of like took him in either when he was in college or helped him get into college to play ball, he loved them because they loved him.
[00:13:09]  He always just needed a father.
[00:13:10]  Chuck Daly was his father.
[00:13:12]  So with the Pistons, he's good.
[00:13:14]  Structure, once he's, you've earned his trust, he likes, I think.
[00:13:18]  I think when he went to San Antonio, nobody earned his trust and then gave him structure.
[00:13:22]  Right.
[00:13:22]  Chuck Daly gave him structure, was his father.
[00:13:25]  When Chuck got fired, he started to go off the rails.
[00:13:27]  Why do you think in one of the most structured organizations in basketball, he couldn't have?
[00:13:32]  Because I think they didn't also give him, he didn't earn his trust first.
[00:13:36]  Like, first, you got to earn my trust, and then I'm not going to reject you.
[00:13:40]  What does it take to earn his trust?
[00:13:42]  I think everybody had a different approach.
[00:13:43]  I think when the Pistons got there, everybody just kind of took him in, sheltered him, whatever.
[00:13:47]  For whatever reason, he always loved Chuck Daly to this day.
[00:13:49]  And then Phil knew how to talk to him.
[00:13:51]  What was the Native American term he used?
[00:13:53]  I wrote it down.
[00:13:54]  Some dumb shit Phil made up.
[00:13:56]  Yeah, but either way.
[00:13:57]  He's not a shit about Native Americans.
[00:13:58]  He's just going waka waka.
[00:14:00]  And then the hay yoka.
[00:14:01]  Oh, yeah.
[00:14:01]  Yeah, hey yoka.
[00:14:02]  But that Robin bought it.
[00:14:04]  He said, I'll let you do you.
[00:14:05]  So Robin's like, okay, he trusts me.
[00:14:07]  Now I can't respect this structure enough.
[00:14:09]  Michael, trust me.
[00:14:10]  Scotty, trust me.
[00:14:11]  That's what he said.
[00:14:11]  They always let me be me.
[00:14:12]  Right.
[00:14:12]  Let me be me.
[00:14:13]  That's what I need right now.
[00:14:14]  Don't just come impose the shit.
[00:14:15]  And then the structure of a practice and stuff.
[00:14:18]  Structure is in position.
[00:14:21]  Say what?
[00:14:21]  Structure is in position.
[00:14:23]  Like when you say, I need to structure my day, it's not do whatever you want with your day.
[00:14:27]  It's, hey, at nine o'clock, you're going to wake up.
[00:14:29]  At two o'clock, you're going to be at practice.
[00:14:30]  A four o'clock, you're going to eat.
[00:14:31]  Structure is a fancy way of saying, here is your schedule.
[00:14:35]  Yeah.
[00:14:36]  So it's like, does he need structure or does he need liberation?
[00:14:42]  I think that he actually needs liberation more than anything.
[00:14:45]  I think he doesn't need structure.
[00:14:47]  I think that Rodman is actually incredibly self-disciplined if you let him fly.
[00:14:53]  And Chuck Daly said to that coach, that assistant coach that was coaching him a little too hard.
[00:14:57]  He steps over.
[00:14:58]  He goes, hey, you don't put a saddle on a Mustang.
[00:15:00]  So Chuck Daly understood you don't overcoach a Rodman.
[00:15:04]  Rodman is built to give you everything, right?
[00:15:08]  He will give you everything if you let him be himself.
[00:15:12]  And the Spurs didn't understand it.
[00:15:14]  Daly understood it.
[00:15:15]  The Spurs didn't understand it.
[00:15:16]  The Spurs were like, well, no, you just come to this practice.
[00:15:19]  You play like this.
[00:15:20]  You do like that, et cetera.
[00:15:21]  And Daly was like, no, you don't.
[00:15:22]  You let that motherfucker do whatever you want because on the floor, he's going to empty the tank every single game.
[00:15:28]  And there's one other player on the Bulls that empties the tank every single game.

=== Jordan Listens To Rodman (14:48) ===

[00:15:32]  MJ.
[00:15:33]  It's MJ.
[00:15:34]  And I've never seen MJ speak about someone the way that he spoke about Rodman.
[00:15:40]  Not Scotty.
[00:15:41]  When he's talking about the Vegas trip?
[00:15:43]  Not even the Vegas trip, just in general.
[00:15:45]  He has no criticisms of Rodman.
[00:15:48]  It's unbelievable.
[00:15:49]  Yeah, I think at one point he was like, oh, that's the smartest player I've ever played.
[00:15:53]  Smartest player ever.
[00:15:54]  I've never seen MJ speak so highly of someone.
[00:15:58]  Scotty, you could tell MJ got some issues.
[00:16:00]  Like the migraine shit, even to this day, he's like, motherfucker, take an Advil.
[00:16:04]  Right?
[00:16:04]  Like, migraine.
[00:16:05]  What do you think about the migraine shit about?
[00:16:06]  I'm not going to lie.
[00:16:07]  I get them sometimes and my visual field is blurry.
[00:16:10]  It's irritating.
[00:16:11]  So what happens for me is...
[00:16:12]  I've never heard you complain about a migraine.
[00:16:14]  It'll happen to me on the road.
[00:16:14]  Sometimes when I'll be like, I got to take a nap.
[00:16:17]  Like, I'm just trying to sleep that off.
[00:16:18]  So what happens is, you know how like the right part of your brain, I think, focuses on the left visual field and like vice versa.
[00:16:24]  So if I feel the migraine coming here, the headache will go away and then this side will be blurry.
[00:16:30]  Or it's vice versa.
[00:16:31]  It's like first blurry and then the headache comes afterwards.
[00:16:34]  Those are, dude.
[00:16:36]  I remember when I was a kid, Terrell Davis almost sat at the Super Bowl because of the migraine.
[00:16:40]  And it's stress related.
[00:16:41]  He was just stressed out.
[00:16:43]  Scotty was feeling immense stress.
[00:16:44]  And I'm sure was probably like, I don't want to let this Jordan guy down.
[00:16:46]  Dwayne Wade is missed games because of migraines.
[00:16:49]  I've never gotten a migraine, so I don't know what it is.
[00:16:52]  But anybody that gets them, it's like they're out there.
[00:16:54]  Son, don't think about it like a headache.
[00:16:56]  Think about it literally like you cannot see.
[00:16:59]  This is just blurry.
[00:17:01]  And it's not like you could close your eye.
[00:17:03]  You're dumb at first and you just go, oh, I'll just close this eye and then I'll be able to focus.
[00:17:06]  It's your left visual field.
[00:17:08]  So regardless if it's right eye or left eye, you still are going to see blurry over here.
[00:17:12]  I remember the first time it happened to me, I was in my uncle's house in fucking California and I just started seeing blurry.
[00:17:16]  And I was like, did I lose my vision?
[00:17:18]  What the fuck is going on?
[00:17:19]  What was stressful?
[00:17:20]  I don't know.
[00:17:21]  Honestly, I don't know.
[00:17:22]  You know, I laughed at that because I thought when you got the flu on the road and then Andrew was like, yeah, he says he got the flu or whatever.
[00:17:28]  He's not coming in today.
[00:17:29]  I don't know.
[00:17:30]  What was it?
[00:17:31]  Whenever you got the flu.
[00:17:32]  And you ended up going on the road and you missed the podcast.
[00:17:35]  That's what it was.
[00:17:35]  I still had to switch corona.
[00:17:37]  Maybe.
[00:17:37]  And then Andrew was, I was like, where's Al?
[00:17:39]  He's like, he's got the flu.
[00:17:40]  And I was like, really?
[00:17:41]  He's like, I guess.
[00:17:43]  It's the exact same way MJ was like, he got migraines.
[00:17:46]  Whatever, I guess.
[00:17:47]  The same mic.
[00:17:49]  What can I say?
[00:17:50]  It's just another similarity between me and MJ.
[00:17:53]  I don't know what else to tell y'all, guys.
[00:17:55]  I don't know what else to tell y'all.
[00:17:57]  I had a flu weekend that weekend.
[00:17:59]  You did have a flu came out, but you came through, son.
[00:18:01]  You delivered.
[00:18:02]  Yo, he did.
[00:18:03]  He did.
[00:18:03]  But wait, where were we with that?
[00:18:04]  It was, oh, yeah, with his respect for Rodman.
[00:18:07]  I mean, MJ is not flying to Las Vegas and knocking on anyone's hotel room.
[00:18:12]  That was crazy that it was actually Michael Jordan.
[00:18:14]  Yeah.
[00:18:14]  That was so dope.
[00:18:16]  That's dope.
[00:18:16]  Son, I mean, that is the greatest compliment of all time.
[00:18:19]  Yeah.
[00:18:20]  The greatest compliment of all time is Michael Jordan knocks on your fucking hotel room when you've been gone for 72 hours or however many hours it was and says, hey, we got to get back.
[00:18:30]  Oh, you know what?
[00:18:30]  I actually thought that was, though, as more than a release for Dennis Rodman.
[00:18:33]  I thought it was he needs love again.
[00:18:36]  Maybe more than structure.
[00:18:37]  He just needs love.
[00:18:38]  Because when he said, when Pippin came back, when even Jordan said when Pippen was gone, somebody said, when Pippen was gone, Rodman, MJ needed Rodman.
[00:18:46]  Yep.
[00:18:46]  And Rodman loved that.
[00:18:47]  Then Rodman says, when Pippin came back, I'm just back to being the third kind of like forgotten brother.
[00:18:53]  And I think that was him being like, I don't like, I need love.
[00:18:56]  I need attention.
[00:18:57]  I need whatever.
[00:18:58]  So I'm just going to go cope how I cope.
[00:19:00]  And then hopefully he'll come rescue me or save me or love me or whatever.
[00:19:02]  I think that's definitely part of it.
[00:19:04]  100%.
[00:19:04]  I think wanting to feel needed was definitely it.
[00:19:07]  I also think there's something about knowing that they could get it done without him in the moment, knowing that he didn't have to put it all in.
[00:19:15]  Like he comes to them when Scotty comes back and he goes, I need a vacation.
[00:19:18]  Yeah.
[00:19:18]  What does he need a vacation from?
[00:19:21]  This guy is someone who deals with mental issues, right?
[00:19:24]  He has had extreme focus for this however many months stretch that Scotty's down, right?
[00:19:29]  And that extreme focus gets them to start winning games.
[00:19:32]  Yeah.
[00:19:32]  Right.
[00:19:33]  Now Scotty's back.
[00:19:34]  He's like, listen, I am fucking mentally ill.
[00:19:37]  I can't sustain this.
[00:19:39]  I need to blow off steam.
[00:19:41]  What is another way to not deal with your mental issues?
[00:19:45]  Drink.
[00:19:46]  Party.
[00:19:47]  Self-medicate.
[00:19:48]  Self-medicate.
[00:19:48]  I call it self-medicating.
[00:19:50]  That's what the partying is.
[00:19:51]  It's not, I like watching girls dance.
[00:19:53]  Like you're an NBA player.
[00:19:54]  You can have girls come to your fucking house whenever you want to.
[00:19:56]  While he's with Carmen Electra, still dancing with other business.
[00:19:59]  Flirting with other bitches, talking about other bitches.
[00:20:02]  Please believe there was more than one bitch in that room when Jordan.
[00:20:04]  Because Jordan said, I'm not going to say what was happening in the room.
[00:20:07]  He's not going to be like, he was with his girlfriend.
[00:20:11]  Hey, you think it might have been another dude in there, too?
[00:20:13]  Who knows, bro?
[00:20:14]  It ain't anything.
[00:20:15]  Who knows, bro?
[00:20:17]  He's not going to dance slogan.
[00:20:19]  Impossible is nothing with Dennis Rodman.
[00:20:21]  And nothing was going to weird out MJ, if you will.
[00:20:27]  So here's the dope thing.
[00:20:29]  You know what's great about these?
[00:20:31]  At first, I'm watching these two episodes.
[00:20:32]  I'm like, oh, he's all right.
[00:20:33]  I know we're excited about this thing, so we're going to hype it up a little bit more.
[00:20:36]  But these are all right.
[00:20:36]  What I loved about these episodes is these episodes establish greatness for characters that were not Michael Jordan.
[00:20:45]  Yeah.
[00:20:45]  Because they were great.
[00:20:46]  Because they were great, undeniably.
[00:20:48]  But sometimes when you're in the shadow of such a great thing, it's hard to appreciate the thing next to it.
[00:20:53]  It's like you see the great pyramid of Giza.
[00:20:55]  There's another pyramid there that's not as big.
[00:20:58]  We don't even know the name of that one.
[00:20:59]  Right.
[00:21:00]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:21:00]  There's two other ones that are dope that we don't know the names of because they're right there, but they're fucking pyramids, bro.
[00:21:06]  Right?
[00:21:08]  Here's the thing that I thought was so dope.
[00:21:10]  Like you were saying about Phil, like Phil coached your soul.
[00:21:13]  Yeah.
[00:21:14]  Like Phil found out what made you tick.
[00:21:16]  Right.
[00:21:17]  Right.
[00:21:18]  And he got inside you.
[00:21:21]  Yeah.
[00:21:22]  And I don't know.
[00:21:23]  Maybe we'll see more.
[00:21:24]  I presume that Phil did not have the closest relationship with Scotty.
[00:21:31]  This is my assumption.
[00:21:32]  Because if Phil was in Scotty's soul, Scotty would have never sat out.
[00:21:37]  Scotty would have never sat out.
[00:21:39]  I don't think that he had, I think he understood Mike and he understood.
[00:21:44]  He didn't have to coach Mike.
[00:21:46]  Mike was going to give every little bit of it every single day.
[00:21:49]  That's why he's the GOAT because it didn't matter if it was practice, regular season game, he's going to empty the tank.
[00:21:53]  You didn't need to motivate Mike.
[00:21:55]  He is not.
[00:21:57]  He is a robot.
[00:21:58]  He's going to get the fucking job done at whatever cost.
[00:22:01]  You have to manage Mike.
[00:22:02]  You got to manage the other pieces.
[00:22:04]  Well, you know, you need to manage with Mike his soul.
[00:22:07]  You need to get him to trust his teammates.
[00:22:09]  Yep.
[00:22:09]  That's what makes you a champion.
[00:22:11]  You just, this whole offense is designed so you trust your teammates, bro.
[00:22:16]  So many things I want to talk about.
[00:22:17]  And I saw that was such an important skill that both Phil and Jordan have, that they can recognize like the strengths in people and how to break it up.
[00:22:26]  Okay.
[00:22:26]  So it's like they read people so well.
[00:22:28]  Like Jordan knows how far he can push everybody.
[00:22:31]  He knows what people he needs to push and what people he doesn't have to push.
[00:22:35]  And it's like Phil does the same thing.
[00:22:36]  So I think with that, I think Jordan, it was a really interesting scene when they saw Jordan cry when the other players talk about Jordan crying when he got the trophy.
[00:22:44]  He's like, we never saw that.
[00:22:45]  We just saw a guy who was in a bad mood, criticizing you, hard on you, et cetera.
[00:22:48]  Singular focus.
[00:22:49]  That's all he had.
[00:22:50]  No positive emotions, no loving, nothing like that.
[00:22:52]  It said, I'm busting your balls.
[00:22:53]  Why aren't you doing this?
[00:22:54]  Critical, critical, critical.
[00:22:56]  So the job of Phil in a lot of ways was to manage everybody else's emotions around Jordan.
[00:23:01]  You're around someone who you know is better than you.
[00:23:03]  And you know, when he criticizes you, he can because you're not as good as him.
[00:23:07]  So how do you keep everybody else's self-esteem up, right?
[00:23:11]  One way might be getting everybody some touches and getting them to score a couple points and get a couple assists.
[00:23:17]  Credit to Jerry Krauss for seeing that.
[00:23:19]  Son, we're going to talk about Jerry Krauss being a motherfucking goat.
[00:23:22]  By the way, he got a memoir coming out.
[00:23:23]  His wife isn't saying anything about this documentary because she wants all of Jerry's words to be spoken by him, essentially.
[00:23:33]  So he got a memoir coming out where he's going to give his side.
[00:23:35]  Plus, it's easier to read what he's saying than look at him while he's talking about it.
[00:23:38]  Motherfuckers look like Monsters Inc.
[00:23:39]  Yeah, yeah, it's bad.
[00:23:40]  It's bad move.
[00:23:42]  Didn't he die like five years ago?
[00:23:43]  Yeah, I don't know how many, but he's dead.
[00:23:45]  He's dead.
[00:23:45]  But he's got a memoir apparently coming out.
[00:23:47]  So she's not talking to any media right now.
[00:23:48]  Like he's going to give his side of the story, etc.
[00:23:51]  Oh, that's going to be good.
[00:23:52]  So, what's fascinating about Jordan, right?
[00:23:55]  And Phil, etc., is like Jordan had a singular focus in the height of his career.
[00:24:02]  He's winning all these scoring championships.
[00:24:03]  He's dominating the league.
[00:24:05]  He was so singularly focused on winning a championship that he was willing to sacrifice his potential greatness to get there, right?
[00:24:13]  He's averaging 37 a game, and he's willing to accept this new offense that's going to take the ball out of his hands and willing to help his teammate so his teammates can help him get to the promised land.
[00:24:25]  He recognizes, he recognizes this, and he leans into it.
[00:24:29]  It's absolutely amazing.
[00:24:30]  A Carmelo Anthony could never, right?
[00:24:32]  Carmelo Anthony is so stupid.
[00:24:34]  He could never see.
[00:24:35]  Like, if did you guys see the interstitial with Carmelo?
[00:24:37]  I fast-forwarded through that shit.
[00:24:39]  You should have seen it.
[00:24:39]  It was a fascinating look into how retarded he is.
[00:24:42]  He is one of the dumbest people.
[00:24:43]  Like, I thought Draymond Green was one of the most stupid.
[00:24:46]  I just shook my head.
[00:24:47]  I was like, I can't believe it.
[00:24:48]  So he is the IQ of a crocodile.
[00:24:50]  That's what he is.
[00:24:51]  He has one crocodiles go, I need to eat.
[00:24:53]  And that's all Carmelo knows how to do it.
[00:24:55]  What did Mello say?
[00:24:56]  Oh, fuck.
[00:24:56]  Do you know exactly?
[00:24:57]  He goes to this.
[00:24:58]  He goes, I remember watching he's still speaking hood for some reason.
[00:25:03]  Like every other NBA player learned how to do their fucking media voice.
[00:25:06]  And Mello's still like, yeah, I was watching Robin.
[00:25:09]  Because he don't got a job.
[00:25:10]  Well, no, he doesn't.
[00:25:11]  What does he have to do media training for?
[00:25:13]  Ain't no media talking to him.
[00:25:14]  So he goes, he goes, I was watching.
[00:25:17]  You know, I used to watch Robin.
[00:25:18]  I remember Robin said, I don't care about these games.
[00:25:20]  These games mean nothing to me.
[00:25:22]  It's boring out there.
[00:25:22]  I was like, yo, this is the realest motherfucker.
[00:25:25]  I love this guy.
[00:25:26]  And it's like, are you that fucking stupid?
[00:25:28]  You would say this publicly.
[00:25:29]  Hey, you played a lot of meaningless games, dog.
[00:25:31]  That's your whole career's been meaningful.
[00:25:32]  He played a lot of meaningful ones.
[00:25:34]  But like the fact that he doesn't realize that his biggest criticism is that he can't see beyond himself.
[00:25:40]  Yeah.
[00:25:41]  That he could say that publicly in something that would be on TV that the world will watch to confirm what we've all thought about you.
[00:25:46]  Yep.
[00:25:47]  Unbelievable.
[00:25:48]  He thought that was a highlight.
[00:25:49]  He's like, oh, that was so dope that he said that.
[00:25:53]  I mean, like, Carmelo couldn't, son, he's retarded.
[00:25:56]  Carmelo never, dude.
[00:25:58]  The lack of, if nothing else, the lack of self-awareness.
[00:26:00]  It's hysterical.
[00:26:01]  It's hysterical.
[00:26:02]  I'm not even going to argue with the Mellow defenders.
[00:26:04]  You just have to understand how stupid you sound.
[00:26:07]  Yeah.
[00:26:08]  Like, you got to be smarter than that.
[00:26:10]  Son, people love Mike the Situation in Jersey Shore and they defend him to the end of the day.
[00:26:14]  Yeah.
[00:26:14]  That's what Carmelo is.
[00:26:15]  It's like he's just a guy who's completely oblivious of who he is and where he stands in the world and how people view him.
[00:26:22]  I'm going to tell you his situation under 500.
[00:26:24]  Yeah.
[00:26:25]  That's his situation at all times.
[00:26:27]  So it's like, so Jordan is willing to sacrifice for this greater good and maybe give credit Phil to that.
[00:26:34]  Yeah.
[00:26:35]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:35]  I thought Phil, dude, I'll watch three parts on Phil.
[00:26:39]  Right.
[00:26:40]  Just to me, what he's done, he has rewritten the NBA history books more than Jerry Krause, more than maybe even MJ, because he did it twice.
[00:26:50]  Right?
[00:26:51]  He did it with the Bulls, and then he did it again with the Lakers using similar principles.
[00:26:55]  And like being progress, like growing up in Montana where they don't fuck with the American Indians and him just being like, nah, I didn't see that.
[00:27:02]  I believed him when he said it.
[00:27:03]  I think a lot of coaches will try to like play up how progressive they are.
[00:27:06]  I really believe him when he's like, nah, I just wanted to learn from them.
[00:27:10]  And then he learned that and brought it into a team.
[00:27:12]  And what is a team?
[00:27:13]  It's a tribe.
[00:27:14]  That's all it is.
[00:27:15]  Especially a basketball team.
[00:27:17]  15 people standing in circles.
[00:27:19]  All I'm going to instill in you guys is you are a family.
[00:27:21]  You are a tribe.
[00:27:22]  This is everything.
[00:27:24]  And if you get a team to play together and you got MJ and you can get him to buy in, sure, you're the chief of the tribe.
[00:27:29]  This is still your tribe.
[00:27:31]  Bro, you take great players and that's what elevates everything.
[00:27:34]  Yeah.
[00:27:35]  And he had to convince MJ that taking the ball out of his hands would get him what he ultimately wanted.
[00:27:40]  Yes.
[00:27:41]  And MJ did not trust him.
[00:27:42]  Even in the documentary, he says he's like, with five seconds left, I didn't want the ball in Bill Wennington's hands.
[00:27:47]  Yeah.
[00:27:47]  Bill Cartwright.
[00:27:48]  Bill Cartwright.
[00:27:49]  Whatever the fuck that is.
[00:27:50]  A lot of Bill.
[00:27:50]  That's so funny, dude.
[00:27:51]  Yeah.
[00:27:52]  He's like, I didn't want the ball in his hands.
[00:27:53]  And then they show a shot of Bill Cartwright missing a little five-foot freight away.
[00:27:57]  They just trashed that motherfucker.
[00:27:58]  100%.
[00:27:59]  But he's right.
[00:28:00]  But he got him to trust his teammates for the greater good.
[00:28:03]  And this is the thing that I thought was so fascinating about Jordan.
[00:28:07]  Jordan, if it's the military, Jordan wants to win so bad that his whole philosophy is don't ask, don't tell.
[00:28:17]  Right?
[00:28:17]  It don't matter what Jordan has to say.
[00:28:21]  It don't matter what Jordan feels about homosexuality, about trans, about any of these things.
[00:28:26]  He don't care about what Rodman does off the court because he knows Rodman's going to bring it on the court.
[00:28:35]  Right?
[00:28:35]  So it's like he could turn a blind eye.
[00:28:38]  Don't ask, don't tell.
[00:28:39]  I don't care what Scotty does with his personal life.
[00:28:41]  I don't care what John Pax.
[00:28:42]  I don't care what none of y'all do.
[00:28:44]  If y'all fuck around on the court, it's a problem.
[00:28:46]  If you deliver on the court, we're good.
[00:28:48]  And it was so cool to see someone with a singular focus.
[00:28:51]  He didn't coach your soul.
[00:28:53]  Jordan asked for the most out of you and he rewarded the people who gave the most.
[00:28:58]  What's his phase?
[00:29:00]  Phil coached your soul.
[00:29:02]  Phil found a way in there.
[00:29:03]  Yeah, again, I just, I like people who know how to handle greatness and know how to bring greatness out of everybody.
[00:29:09]  And I'm fascinated by a guy who gets human beings on that level.
[00:29:12]  Son, Phil solidified his ghost ship with this documentary.
[00:29:15]  Not like it wasn't solidified before, but everybody was like, oh, he inherited great players.
[00:29:19]  Yes, he inherited great players.
[00:29:20]  Absolutely.
[00:29:20]  There's no question of that.
[00:29:21]  You can't knock that.
[00:29:22]  But managing the egos is the coach's job.
[00:29:25]  Even Rick Carlisle, who's the number one X's and O's guy, I read a book where he recently said, like, X's and O's is 10% of being a pro head coach.
[00:29:32]  Yeah.
[00:29:32]  And my problem is Rick Carlisle, Carlos said about this about himself.
[00:29:35]  My problem is I don't know how to relate to these guys as well.
[00:29:37]  And that's the most important part of the job.
[00:29:39]  So Phil, he got the X's and O's.
[00:29:42]  And then the other 90%, dude, brilliant.
[00:29:44]  Fucking brilliant.
[00:29:45]  This guy could be a leader of a country.
[00:29:47]  Yo, dude, 100%.
[00:29:49]  Great leadership.
[00:29:50]  And you know what I realized?
[00:29:51]  I'm sitting there.
[00:29:51]  I'm like, why the fuck did Jordan listen to this motherfucker?
[00:29:54]  Like, yes, Jordan got along with Doug because they both had the same fire.
[00:29:58]  And I think Jordan mired that Doug just kind of like said whatever happened, but he also kissed Jordan's ass.
[00:30:02]  And then, you know, Jordan was having this incredible success under Doug.
[00:30:05]  So you're definitely going to relate some of that to him.
[00:30:07]  You know what I thought was really telling about their relationship?
[00:30:09]  What'd he call him?
[00:30:11]  What?
[00:30:11]  What did he call Doug Collins?
[00:30:12]  I don't know.
[00:30:13]  Dougie.
[00:30:14]  If that's a coach to me that you really respect as a coach, you're not giving him no nickname.
[00:30:19]  That's a peer.
[00:30:20]  It was one of the sniffers.

=== Phil Jackson Leads Country (05:43) ===

[00:30:21]  Yeah.
[00:30:21]  Yeah, he was another sniffer.
[00:30:23]  Even if he wasn't a full-on sniffer, it was a sniffer.
[00:30:25]  You're not above me if you're Dudgy.
[00:30:26]  It was a sniffer.
[00:30:28]  What was the play at the end of the game or something like that?
[00:30:30]  Just get the ball to Jordan.
[00:30:31]  Get the fuck out the way.
[00:30:32]  That was the play, every play.
[00:30:34]  Right.
[00:30:34]  Right?
[00:30:34]  Yeah.
[00:30:34]  Which is cool.
[00:30:36]  But Phil had this, Phil had this different energy, right?
[00:30:40]  And Jordan didn't even like Phil when he came in.
[00:30:42]  Yeah.
[00:30:43]  But I was like, why the fuck did he end up listening to him?
[00:30:45]  Yes, don't get me wrong.
[00:30:46]  Phil knows how to get in your head with the Zen.
[00:30:49]  But what did Phil have that Jordan didn't?
[00:30:53]  Jewelry.
[00:30:55]  Oh, we got two with the Knicks.
[00:30:57]  And one with that CBA team.
[00:31:00]  Say what it is.
[00:31:00]  It doesn't matter.
[00:31:02]  I did not know that.
[00:31:04]  We didn't know that he played for the Albany.
[00:31:05]  There was a CBA team that he coached.
[00:31:07]  So he got two with the Knicks.
[00:31:09]  Yeah.
[00:31:09]  Right.
[00:31:09]  And then he coached the team in the CBA and he got one with them.
[00:31:13]  So when he's telling Jordan, this is what you got to do.
[00:31:16]  I'm not telling you this as someone who has as many rings as you, which is zero.
[00:31:20]  I'm telling you as someone who's done it as a player and as a coach.
[00:31:24]  I know some shit, motherfucker.
[00:31:27]  Do you want these?
[00:31:28]  Is this what you because I know how to get these?
[00:31:30]  You don't.
[00:31:31]  If you did, you'd have them.
[00:31:33]  And the fact that he coached in Puerto Rico and had to deal like language barrier craziness going on over here.
[00:31:40]  He's getting his fucking heads cut off.
[00:31:42]  Yeah.
[00:31:42]  Like what is this relationship with killing chickens that Puerto Rican's got house?
[00:31:46]  I don't know.
[00:31:47]  Chickens kill each other.
[00:31:48]  You cut the chicken.
[00:31:50]  Mayor?
[00:31:50]  It's the fucking mayor doing it.
[00:31:52]  So the mayor shot the rest.
[00:31:54]  The mayor shot him left in the fucking leg.
[00:31:56]  Oh, my God.
[00:31:57]  Yeah, it's so funny.
[00:31:58]  There was this energy when the conquistadors came.
[00:32:00]  Yo, son.
[00:32:01]  Y'all just let them walk over y'all.
[00:32:04]  It's not happening again.
[00:32:07]  You're not stealing from us anymore.
[00:32:10]  It's a foul.
[00:32:13]  Yo, nuts.
[00:32:15]  Nuts.
[00:32:15]  Then his only punishment was you can't come to games anymore for the rest of the season.
[00:32:19]  Home games.
[00:32:20]  Home games.
[00:32:21]  Yeah, I'm assuming you're not traveling.
[00:32:23]  So for the rest of this year, just sit it out.
[00:32:25]  You almost killed somebody.
[00:32:26]  Yeah, that's crazy.
[00:32:27]  That's crazy.
[00:32:28]  It was.
[00:32:29]  But you know what's interesting about the MJ thing?
[00:32:30]  There was a tipping point with trusting Phil.
[00:32:32]  Okay.
[00:32:32]  And it was the finals against the Lakers in the closeout game.
[00:32:35]  Remember when he talked about finding Paxson?
[00:32:37]  Phil told him, like, John is open every time.
[00:32:39]  Give him the ball.
[00:32:40]  He said, who's open?
[00:32:41]  Oh, who's open?
[00:32:42]  And this is such a genius thing.
[00:32:44]  You let someone come up with the conclusion themselves.
[00:32:47]  You're right.
[00:32:47]  And now you're not telling them what to do.
[00:32:49]  And MJ's a guy you don't tell what to do now that you mention it.
[00:32:51]  Ali, the same.
[00:32:52]  My pops used to go to Ali's camp a lot, and he said, Ali's coach.
[00:32:57]  Oh, my God.
[00:32:57]  Why am I forgetting who the fuck his coach is at?
[00:32:59]  Dundee.
[00:33:00]  Angelo Dundee.
[00:33:01]  Angelo would never tell Ali what to do.
[00:33:04]  He'd ask Ali, hey, what should we do now, Ali?
[00:33:06]  And he's like, all right, we could work on some apps.
[00:33:07]  He's like, that's a good idea.
[00:33:08]  Let's work on some fat.
[00:33:10]  Now, he knows that we got to work on apps, but he knows you don't tell Muhammad Ali to do the apps.
[00:33:14]  Yeah.
[00:33:15]  Muhammad Ali is going to do the work.
[00:33:17]  Jordan's going to do the work.
[00:33:19]  You don't got to motivate them to work.
[00:33:21]  The other guy, Scotty, you got to motivate probably.
[00:33:23]  But even Jordan says it in the doc.
[00:33:25]  He's like, Scotty will fight for you.
[00:33:27]  He just wants to know that you're on his side.
[00:33:29]  Yeah.
[00:33:29]  That's another little dig.
[00:33:32]  That's a little dig.
[00:33:33]  Jordan's like, I don't need nobody on my side.
[00:33:34]  I'll swing on anybody.
[00:33:35]  I thought it was Big Brother, Little Brother thing.
[00:33:37]  Like, that's my little brother.
[00:33:38]  He just needs to know his big brother's here.
[00:33:39]  And then we'll fight.
[00:33:40]  Let's fight together.
[00:33:41]  Don't call me Lil Brother, motherfucker.
[00:33:43]  I'm one of the best 50 players in the league.
[00:33:45]  That's what Scotty was.
[00:33:46]  He was.
[00:33:46]  He was the most accomplished little brother.
[00:33:49]  And a testament to Scotty Pippen on a certain level to swallow your ego and be like, look, this is how he wins chips.
[00:33:55]  And if I'm the little brother, that's fine.
[00:33:56]  I'm the little brother.
[00:33:57]  You guys can criticize me all you want to.
[00:33:58]  Sidekick, blah, blah, blah.
[00:33:59]  I'm one of the 50 greatest ever.
[00:34:01]  I got five rings, six rings.
[00:34:03]  What do y'all got?
[00:34:03]  James Harden should look at this documentary right now and he should go, man, I could have had fucking six rings by now.
[00:34:12]  Yo.
[00:34:13]  James Harden should look at this fucking documentary.
[00:34:15]  Russell Westbrook should look at this documentary right now.
[00:34:18]  Now, Kevin Durant does not have the leadership and the focus that Jordan does.
[00:34:22]  He just doesn't have it.
[00:34:22]  He's not the alpha that Jordan is.
[00:34:24]  But Kevin Durant, sorry, James Harden could have been Scotty Pippen.
[00:34:30]  He chose to have his own team.
[00:34:31]  And Scotty Pippen on his own team wouldn't have been nearly as much beta to anybody.
[00:34:35]  When Jordan left, Scotty was the guy.
[00:34:37]  And he seemed to like it.
[00:34:38]  But he was like, look, this is the fucking greatest.
[00:34:42]  There's an unstoppable force.
[00:34:43]  That's, hey, if me being little brother gets us rings, I'm little brother.
[00:34:47]  Call me rep Infante or whatever his name is.
[00:34:49]  I'm a little brother.
[00:34:50]  Do you think it's, do you think because they weren't making as much money, it was easier to value the ring?
[00:34:59]  Maybe.
[00:34:59]  And also, when you're making more money, you got more yes men.
[00:35:02]  You got more hangers on.
[00:35:03]  You got more people in your ear.
[00:35:06]  Yeah, you got people DMing you, all this kind of shit.
[00:35:08]  Because it's almost like in the mafia, when they were only getting one, two-year sentences for gambling or racket or not even racketeering.
[00:35:16]  It was like gambling stuff or like stealing something off the back of a truck.
[00:35:19]  Like everybody was going with the code, right?
[00:35:22]  They weren't telling.
[00:35:23]  The second you were getting 20-year sentences for drugs, all of a sudden motherfuckers are snitching.
[00:35:28]  They're breaking the code.
[00:35:29]  And I feel like if you equate the year sentence to the millions of dollars you could make a year, when it's 25 mil a year, that's a lot of money to play my role and get 5 million.
[00:35:40]  Fuck that.
[00:35:40]  I don't know.
[00:35:41]  Give me that 25, right?
[00:35:43]  And in a lot of ways, it's like money has always done.
[00:35:47]  It just removes the purity of the game.
[00:35:49]  Now, they deserve it.
[00:35:50]  They're making this money.
[00:35:51]  They should get it.
[00:35:51]  I'm not saying they don't, but like, it's an easier decision to sacrifice when it's between $3 million and four and three million and 30.
[00:36:02]  Right, right.
[00:36:02]  It's hard to turn down 30.

=== Pain And Defense Work Hard (15:37) ===

[00:36:04]  Yeah.
[00:36:05]  Yeah, dude.
[00:36:05]  Right?
[00:36:06]  Yeah, 100%.
[00:36:07]  It's a different as tax brackets change, everything changes.
[00:36:10]  Everything changes.
[00:36:11]  And when you go from being a hundred thousand heir to a millionaire to a multi-millionaire to a hundred millionaire, these are all very different mentalities.
[00:36:18]  Yeah.
[00:36:18]  Different shit is on the line.
[00:36:20]  Yes.
[00:36:20]  100 million, my kids' kids' kids are good.
[00:36:23]  That's multi-generational.
[00:36:26]  Generational.
[00:36:26]  Unless you're Scotty Pippen and you find a way to spend it in one generation.
[00:36:31]  In one lifetime, he spent $120 million on them fucking team.
[00:36:35]  Car washers or whatever.
[00:36:37]  Guy got no art.
[00:36:39]  Motherfucker got no art in his whole house.
[00:36:40]  You see his house?
[00:36:41]  They rented that shit for the shoot.
[00:36:43]  Is he broke?
[00:36:45]  I don't know, bro.
[00:36:45]  But like, I'm looking at his mother.
[00:36:47]  He's broke and got divorced.
[00:36:48]  Because I think you, Al, were telling me he was going to get divorced and then he just realized how much it was going to cost.
[00:36:54]  And he was like, nah, let's not.
[00:36:55]  Let's work it out.
[00:36:55]  He shacked it.
[00:36:56]  Yeah.
[00:36:56]  Shaq's still married, right?
[00:36:58]  Is he still married to Shawnee?
[00:36:59]  No.
[00:37:00]  No, Shaq's.
[00:37:01]  They got divorced?
[00:37:02]  Yeah.
[00:37:03]  Oh, okay.
[00:37:03]  Because I thought he was keeping her around because it was cheaper for her.
[00:37:06]  Gee, she took a significant chunk.
[00:37:09]  That's why I said Shaq out there, DJing.
[00:37:13]  You got to DJ that money back, Shaq.
[00:37:15]  Oh, fuck.
[00:37:16]  But yeah, man, it was really interesting.
[00:37:20]  The episode is really interesting to solidify Phil's greatness and his ability to manage those egos to solidify something we never really knew about Jordan, which was the sacrifice that he made.
[00:37:33]  Yeah.
[00:37:33]  Like, I think we all knew he was willing to leave it all on the floor.
[00:37:36]  Yeah.
[00:37:36]  But I didn't, I don't think we knew how much he sacrificed.
[00:37:39]  The guy sacrificed 10 points a game.
[00:37:42]  I think he went from 37 to maybe like 28.
[00:37:45]  We could look at.
[00:37:45]  Yeah, probably.
[00:37:46]  Right?
[00:37:47]  Like, that's a lot, babe.
[00:37:49]  And he trusted it all the way through.
[00:37:52]  And then, because it was going to bring up the tipping point moment when Phil asked who's open and he said John.
[00:37:58]  And then he trusted John.
[00:38:00]  It's interesting.
[00:38:00]  He said, when John hit that first shot, I said, okay, here we go.
[00:38:03]  If John misses that first shot, I wonder what happens.
[00:38:06]  Why is this white guy on the team?
[00:38:07]  I wonder what happened.
[00:38:08]  If he misses that shot, he goes, Johnny goes, yeah.
[00:38:13]  And they might have still closed it out, but then do they get six rings as opposed to one?
[00:38:18]  Because that seemed like the light bulb moment.
[00:38:19]  And Phil said, I think that's when all the work sunk in of like, okay, you can trust your teammates.
[00:38:25]  These guys are here for a reason.
[00:38:26]  And Paxon is a cold-blooded motherfucker.
[00:38:28]  I remember rooting for the Suns because I love Barkley when they played in the finals.
[00:38:32]  And Paxon hit the three that buried them in game six.
[00:38:34]  Game winning three.
[00:38:35]  Bang.
[00:38:36]  And he's just Paxon's a cold-ass white boy, dude.
[00:38:40]  Just give him the ball.
[00:38:41]  He's going to knock it down.
[00:38:42]  And I think that once he saw that shot go in, that changed, I think that's a history-changing shot, I think.
[00:38:47]  Because I think after that, Jordan was like, oh, okay, Phil was right this whole time.
[00:38:50]  Now let's run this offense.
[00:38:52]  Let's really share the ball.
[00:38:52]  Let's lean into it.
[00:38:53]  Now he fully leans in.
[00:38:55]  Whereas before, he's doing it.
[00:38:56]  I think like, I'm going to trust you.
[00:38:58]  Yeah.
[00:38:59]  But I don't fully trust you.
[00:39:00]  Then when he saw that shot going, he goes, okay, I fully trust it.
[00:39:03]  Let's go.
[00:39:04]  And then after that, you think that the offense makes sense to him?
[00:39:08]  I think everything makes sense to him.
[00:39:09]  Share the ball with your teammates.
[00:39:11]  Elevate your teammates' play.
[00:39:12]  What was interesting is Phil was like, Yeah, you got to lift up your teammates.
[00:39:15]  And MJ said, I hated that they always said Michael doesn't make his teammates better.
[00:39:19]  Magic does, Larry does.
[00:39:20]  And so I decided to change that.
[00:39:22]  And then he just yelled at them.
[00:39:23]  I mean, he just fucking braided them and treated them like shit.
[00:39:28]  That's how you make them better.
[00:39:29]  But that's how he motivated them, I guess.
[00:39:30]  I mean, he motivated through fear.
[00:39:33]  I think probably Magic didn't.
[00:39:34]  LeBron doesn't.
[00:39:35]  And I think MJ is greater, so it worked out.
[00:39:39]  But like, it was funny that he was like, I'm going to really lean into this being a good teammate thing.
[00:39:43]  Hey, you piece of shit.
[00:39:44]  Fuck yo.
[00:39:45]  It's an easy shot.
[00:39:47]  Why do you think that MJ had so much respect for Rodman?
[00:39:51]  I think Rodman's work ethic.
[00:39:53]  Yeah, I think because he saw the work ethic and he puts it all out there.
[00:39:56]  Don't ask on Twitter.
[00:39:56]  He's probably the only person other than him who puts it all out there.
[00:39:59]  So it's like, all right, I don't need to say anything, though.
[00:40:02]  Yeah.
[00:40:03]  I was asking around a little bit and I was like, what do you think it is?
[00:40:05]  Like, just asking some folks in the league.
[00:40:07]  And one thing that is not really touched upon that much in the documentary, you kind of see it, but they don't really say it.
[00:40:14]  Rodman was a gym rat.
[00:40:16]  Oh, yeah.
[00:40:17]  You probably know this, but like the average person is like, oh, he's wearing makeup and he's out partying all the time.
[00:40:21]  When he wasn't doing that, he's in the gym.
[00:40:23]  He is a.
[00:40:24]  He's the work hard, play hard guy.
[00:40:26]  We've all known one like that.
[00:40:27]  He might be the most, the biggest example of party hard, work hard.
[00:40:30]  Party hard, work hard.
[00:40:32]  And MJ was a rat.
[00:40:34]  Yeah.
[00:40:35]  So when MJ saw that Rodman was a gym rat and like every time MJ's in the gym lifting, all of a sudden this Rodman guy's also in the gym lifting.
[00:40:42]  He don't got to motivate him.
[00:40:43]  He's just there.
[00:40:44]  That's what he likes.
[00:40:45]  I think he's going, okay, this guy's about it.
[00:40:47]  He's not what maybe people say.
[00:40:50]  And then when he sees him diving into the stands, literally leaving it all on the fucking floor.
[00:40:54]  And he goes, wait, I don't got to motivate that motherfucker.
[00:40:57]  Everyone else on this team, I got to yell at them, berate them, and then manage their confidence, et cetera.
[00:41:02]  But this guy, Rodman, nothing I say to him can make him feel one way or the other.
[00:41:06]  He's going to give 100% on the floor and he's going to meet me in the gym the next day.
[00:41:10]  Okay.
[00:41:11]  I wonder if he also liked, he didn't have to stand up for his teammates if Rodman is there.
[00:41:16]  Or at least that's one teammate I never have to stand up to for.
[00:41:19]  I remember it was in his first three P, there was a series against the Knicks where they were getting bullied around.
[00:41:23]  And his dad was like, you got to, you can't let them get bullied around.
[00:41:27]  You got to be the guy to stand up and fight.
[00:41:28]  And there's that shot of him and Xavier McDaniels, like forehead to forehead, John.
[00:41:33]  With Rodman, that's the guy fucking with everybody else.
[00:41:36]  He's getting in Carl Malone's head super badly.
[00:41:38]  Like these guys fucking hate him and he can stand up for himself.
[00:41:42]  Scotty, somebody goes at Scotty, I got to jump into the fray.
[00:41:45]  And it's like, I'm too valuable to be the enforcer.
[00:41:48]  Yeah.
[00:41:49]  I can't be enforcing.
[00:41:50]  That's what Charles Oakley was, too.
[00:41:52]  Yeah.
[00:41:52]  And he loves Oakley as a human and probably would have liked to have him back on his team.
[00:41:56]  Now I got a much better version of Charles Oakley.
[00:41:58]  Interesting.
[00:41:59]  Listen, if Dennis gets into some shit, he's the guy they're all going to go at because everybody, he irritates everybody.
[00:42:04]  And I don't got to stand up for Dennis.
[00:42:06]  I don't need that burden.
[00:42:07]  I got enough going on.
[00:42:09]  Maybe there's another smaller factor there.
[00:42:11]  No, that's true.
[00:42:13]  Also, he probably just remembers playing against him on the Pistons and like the battle that he had to go against him every time.
[00:42:20]  He's like, oh, shit, this motherfucker's rich.
[00:42:22]  It's the real fucking deal, bro.
[00:42:23]  Yo, okay.
[00:42:25]  Two things on that.
[00:42:26]  One, I want to go on a Pittman thing, but also on that, like I think that we underestimate Rodman's defense, right?
[00:42:35]  Like we all know he's a great rebounder, and then we think of him as a pest, right?
[00:42:38]  We're like, he's a pest.
[00:42:39]  He's always in there out there.
[00:42:41]  He's agitating his defender.
[00:42:42]  He'll also stay in front of you.
[00:42:44]  You're not getting by him.
[00:42:45]  Yeah.
[00:42:46]  Right.
[00:42:46]  And I feel like that's kind of lost in the antics a little bit.
[00:42:49]  And Gary Payton said it.
[00:42:52]  Out of nowhere in the documentary, he goes, he's a fuck up.
[00:42:54]  Yeah.
[00:42:55]  And you think he's going to, he's going to diss him.
[00:42:58]  He goes, he goes, nah, he's Mr. Fuck up.
[00:42:59]  What is the fuck up?
[00:43:00]  He's Mr. Fuck up.
[00:43:01]  So you're like, oh, he's going to say he is all these antiques.
[00:43:03]  He goes, nah.
[00:43:04]  He goes, when he's out there, he fucks everything up.
[00:43:06]  That's the ultimate compliment.
[00:43:08]  Right.
[00:43:08]  Especially to a point guard whose job it is to not fuck things up.
[00:43:12]  To make everything's all right.
[00:43:14]  Was a great defender also.
[00:43:15]  Amazing.
[00:43:16]  The glove.
[00:43:16]  The glove.
[00:43:17]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:43:18]  And for him to say, that's the guy, that's the guy.
[00:43:21]  I think Aldrich is right.
[00:43:22]  That's the best onball defender he's ever seen.
[00:43:24]  Yep, that's right.
[00:43:25]  And if you see him when he's not on the ball, he's playing some nasty ass defense now, too.
[00:43:30]  And while we're talking about the defense thing, this is something I thought was so great.
[00:43:34]  So when they're playing Lakers in the first final series, the Pistons or the Bulls?
[00:43:40]  No, when they're playing the Lakers.
[00:43:41]  The Bulls are playing the Lakers, right?
[00:43:43]  In their first finals, right?
[00:43:44]  Locks up.
[00:43:45]  Exactly, right?
[00:43:47]  Now, who was originally on Magic?
[00:43:48]  Michael.
[00:43:49]  Michael.
[00:43:49]  Michael's on Magic.
[00:43:51]  Of course, Michael wants to play Magic.
[00:43:53]  He's been looking up to Magic constantly in this documentary.
[00:43:55]  He's referencing, I wanted to be in the same conversation as Magic.
[00:43:59]  Murder and Magic.
[00:44:00]  Right?
[00:44:02]  He goes, He goes, well, he doesn't say.
[00:44:05]  I think the documentary says, we switch Scotty onto Magic.
[00:44:09]  And then Jordan goes, and that changed the series.
[00:44:12]  Yeah.
[00:44:13]  Man.
[00:44:16]  Jordan is the most competitive person on the fucking planet.
[00:44:20]  If that don't show you the respect he has for Scotty's D, this is multiple all-defensive team.
[00:44:28]  This is multiple defensive player of the year.
[00:44:30]  Not talking about Scottie, I'm talking about Jordan.
[00:44:32]  Jordan was Mr. Lock You the fuck up.
[00:44:33]  Yeah, he got a defensive player of the year.
[00:44:35]  He's the only GOAT.
[00:44:35]  Oh, no, Doug.
[00:44:37]  He's the only GOAT person that I can think of that has a defensive player of the year.
[00:44:40]  Magic don't got one.
[00:44:41]  Larry don't got one.
[00:44:42]  LeBron don't got one.
[00:44:43]  Yeah, I mean, eventually maybe your guy, Kawhi, if he's in that discussion.
[00:44:47]  He's in that discussion.
[00:44:47]  Yeah.
[00:44:48]  Yeah.
[00:44:48]  100%.
[00:44:49]  Right now, that's the only guy.
[00:44:50]  And for him to say, yo, this guy doesn't have any defensive player of the years, but just sacrifice my ego.
[00:44:55]  That's another time.
[00:44:56]  Now that you're talking about sacrificing ego, it's a one-on-one matchup with a fucking ring.
[00:45:01]  Me and Magic, this is the guy I want.
[00:45:03]  I'm locking this motherfucker up and I'm going to score on him all day.
[00:45:06]  That's what you got to be thinking if you're Jordan.
[00:45:08]  You got to check your.
[00:45:09]  But if Phil says, yo, we struggle a little bit in game one, let's try this switch, for you to say, yeah, I'm cool with that, that's a big swallow of the ego also.
[00:45:18]  Like, all right, I know what Scotty does in practice because let's let him do it to Magic here.
[00:45:22]  This is what I realized about Jordan and to his fucking greatness, man.
[00:45:27]  And this shit is so rare.
[00:45:29]  His ego was wrapped around the ring, not what he was doing to get the ring.
[00:45:35]  Right.
[00:45:37]  What it took to get the ring.
[00:45:40]  Yeah.
[00:45:40]  And if it took him sacrificing touches, all of a sudden, that's what's most important.
[00:45:46]  If it took him passing the ball to fucking John Paxon, that's what we do.
[00:45:50]  If it took him letting Scotty guard the toughest person on the other team, that's what we do.
[00:45:55]  Because my ego is the ring.
[00:45:56]  That is not about my personal accomplishment.
[00:45:58]  That's the guy you're competing with to be the GOAT.
[00:46:00]  That's it.
[00:46:01]  Fine.
[00:46:01]  Fuck it.
[00:46:02]  Let's win.
[00:46:04]  That's huge.
[00:46:04]  Dog, if you're talking about people who want to be GOATs, I remember Damian Lemon, homie of ours, he talked about like years ago.
[00:46:10]  He says, anybody that's in a GOAT conversation, that's a massive ego.
[00:46:13]  You're dealing with massive egos.
[00:46:15]  So for you to swallow your ego with another GOAT and you're competing for the first time in your life and you can take that fucking title and say, you know what?
[00:46:23]  The real title is more important than this temporary GOAT thing.
[00:46:26]  Let's go get that.
[00:46:27]  What did he say?
[00:46:28]  What did he say when he was describing it?
[00:46:30]  This is what I thought was so dope.
[00:46:32]  He goes, it changed everything when Scotty started picking up Magic 94 feet.
[00:46:38]  Yeah.
[00:46:38]  And he goes, and I knew it worked because I saw him do it in practice.
[00:46:42]  Now, who do you think he saw him do it against in practice?
[00:46:45]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:46:46]  So if he knows how great he is and having Scotty guard him 94 feet is a pain in the fucking ass.
[00:46:52]  He's like, oh, Magic about to get this fucking work.
[00:46:55]  Yeah.
[00:46:56]  It's like, motherfuckers, sometimes you want that glory so much, but the abilities just go, nah, this is better for the situation right now.
[00:47:04]  It's rare.
[00:47:05]  It's hard.
[00:47:06]  It's hard.
[00:47:08]  But that's true greatness.
[00:47:10]  There's no one to check it.
[00:47:11]  Yeah.
[00:47:13]  I wanted to ask, bring it back to Robin.
[00:47:16]  Do you think he was being real or was it bullshit when he was talking about he studies the way the ball bounces?
[00:47:23]  No, I think it's real.
[00:47:24]  I've been hearing that for years.
[00:47:25]  It was just, he was just kind of like, oh, bounce this way.
[00:47:29]  I thought that the editors of this documentary did an amazing job of making him look like he knew what he was talking about in that moment.
[00:47:36]  Okay.
[00:47:36]  Right?
[00:47:37]  To me, it was like, ah, it started out, right?
[00:47:40]  Because it started out.
[00:47:41]  We're like, oh, shit, he's about to really break down how to rebound.
[00:47:43]  And then we're like, oh, is he just making sound effects?
[00:47:48]  The editors started chopping this shit up to be like, and whoosh, and boom, and click, click.
[00:47:53]  It was like, what the fuck is happening, man?
[00:47:56]  Horrible sound bite, but I do, from what I understood, I've heard that about him for like for the longest, is he just studies the way the ball bounces off rims.
[00:48:03]  When people shoot it, like apparently Bulls practice, there would be plenty of times that he would just work out on the bike and just watch everybody shoot and then just watch how does the ball spin and bounce off for each different player.
[00:48:13]  If he does, that's another thing.
[00:48:14]  It's fucking I thought it was really cool that they showed how you could actually work on rebounding, right?
[00:48:20]  Because rebounding, I think we've always looked at as an effort thing.
[00:48:26]  Yeah.
[00:48:26]  Effort, effort, and athleticism.
[00:48:28]  Yeah.
[00:48:28]  Right.
[00:48:29]  It's like if you're an athlete and if you're willing to really get in there and box out, et cetera, you can get some boards.
[00:48:36]  That's how we've always viewed it.
[00:48:37]  I've never looked at it as a skill outside of boxing out.
[00:48:40]  But like the predictive ability going, okay, when Jordan shoots from this part of the floor, usually his spin will make the ball bounce that way and then beat him.
[00:48:48]  And then you see why he literally averages six rebounds more.
[00:48:52]  He averaged 50% more rebounds a game than everyone else in the league when he was doing this.
[00:48:57]  And that can't just be effort.
[00:48:58]  It's not luck.
[00:48:59]  You can't be trying, you know, 150% harder than everybody else.
[00:49:02]  I think it was dope when he said, like, oh, I realize my strength will be in defense and rebound.
[00:49:06]  And so I just.
[00:49:07]  That's what hey, I was going to talk about that too.
[00:49:09]  In college, he recognized that early in the league.
[00:49:12]  In the league.
[00:49:12]  So in college, this one I thought was so fascinating.
[00:49:15]  He was scoring 20 games.
[00:49:16]  He had 26 a game in college.
[00:49:18]  He couldn't even shoot in the league.
[00:49:19]  Son, think about that.
[00:49:21]  26 a game in college, right?
[00:49:22]  And I think he went to like a division two or some shit like that.
[00:49:25]  But and to fucking, whatever, we'll go back.
[00:49:27]  But he goes to a division two, right?
[00:49:30]  The fact that you can have no ego to be scoring 26 points a game to then scoring nothing a game, but having 18 rebounds and recognize, okay, defensive rebound is where I'm going to make my effect on the game.
[00:49:43]  Maybe that's Chuck Daly saying that.
[00:49:45]  Maybe that's these other guys that really brought him in and nurtured him, like teaching him that.
[00:49:48]  Or maybe it's his own intellect.
[00:49:50]  You know, I don't think, I think one thing that's really cool about this is it shows Rodman was not stupid.
[00:49:55]  Oh, yeah.
[00:49:55]  He's a smart guy.
[00:49:57]  Sometimes we assume like people who like look wild are stupid.
[00:50:00]  Yeah.
[00:50:00]  You know, like Takashi in the 6'9.
[00:50:02]  Everybody, oh, this guy's an idiot, this, that, the other.
[00:50:04]  The smartest guy in the room.
[00:50:06]  And the guy that's acting the dumbest and making money is the smartest guy in the room.
[00:50:10]  The first interview that he had with the Breakfast Club when he bodied them.
[00:50:13]  Right.
[00:50:14]  Listen, he bodied them.
[00:50:15]  I texted Charlotte right after.
[00:50:16]  I'm like, yo, y'all were not ready.
[00:50:19]  You thought this kid coming in wasn't going to be good and sharp, and you took him lightly and he came in and bodied y'all.
[00:50:27]  And that moment, I'm like, oh, this guy is fucking brilliant.
[00:50:30]  Yeah.
[00:50:30]  He is fucking brilliant.
[00:50:31]  He knows how to navigate this shit.
[00:50:33]  Those guys, dude, I give maybe too much credit.
[00:50:36]  I literally think Soldier Boy's a fucking genius.
[00:50:38]  Yeah.
[00:50:38]  I think Takashi 6ix9ine is brilliant.
[00:50:40]  I think these guys who, if you act like the dumbest person in the world, but you're a millionaire, you're not dumb.
[00:50:46]  Everybody's making you money by thinking you're dumb.
[00:50:48]  And you're, and again, a big, being willing to swallow that ego to say, everybody in the world thinks I'm an idiot, but I'm making that much money.
[00:50:54]  And I think a lot of times a guy like Rodman, I sense he said some shit like, I want it to hurt.
[00:51:00]  I like when it hurts on the court.
[00:51:01]  I like being in pain.
[00:51:02]  That's a guy that's in pain.
[00:51:03]  He raised the stakes, man.
[00:51:05]  I think, well, even just, I took that as physical pain.
[00:51:07]  I like hurting myself.
[00:51:08]  Yeah.
[00:51:09]  Those guys a lot of times are too smart for their own good.
[00:51:13]  Like they just see all the misery around them.
[00:51:15]  One of my smartest friends is, I mean, he's not depressed or anything, but he's a guy that's like, yeah, life is useless.
[00:51:20]  I mean, there's no real purpose to it.
[00:51:21]  You just think it through.
[00:51:22]  It's just, you live it, whatever.
[00:51:24]  But like, I think a lot of times those guys feel the most because they're too smart for their own good.
[00:51:29]  That's what I think about Rodman.
[00:51:30]  We think he's dumb, but he just fucking notices all the bullshit around him.
[00:51:33]  And he even had a line, like, I play the game for free.
[00:51:35]  I get paid for this bullshit.
[00:51:36]  Everything around me talking to you, motherfucker.
[00:51:39]  That's a bar, yo.
[00:51:40]  That's a bar.
[00:51:41]  That's not a dumb person saying that.

=== Pat Riley Rolls Dice (12:13) ===

[00:51:42]  Uh-uh.
[00:51:43]  So we look at him.
[00:51:45]  If you have a job you hate, you look at him like, nah, man, fuck that.
[00:51:48]  If you had to deal with one, one millionth of that, you're like, oh, yeah, you're right.
[00:51:52]  The pressure that they must feel.
[00:51:54]  Not only Jordan, the entire sports news business is like down your fucking throats, looking after your every single word.
[00:52:03]  Of course, you want to drink.
[00:52:04]  Of course, you're going to want to have some fun.
[00:52:05]  Of course, you're going to ride a motorcycle instead of a car.
[00:52:08]  You need steaks.
[00:52:09]  My man drank a beer.
[00:52:11]  Yeah.
[00:52:12]  Hopped on a motorcycle.
[00:52:14]  No helmet.
[00:52:15]  Dropping off from the game.
[00:52:17]  That's crazy because you need something to cover, like shield your eyes.
[00:52:21]  Like his, he probably can't even see.
[00:52:23]  You probably barely see on the fucking bike.
[00:52:25]  Like when you're going that fast on the bike, that shit is crazy.
[00:52:27]  He was, yeah, that was a part of him.
[00:52:29]  I think they just wanted to be hurt.
[00:52:30]  Even now, he's just fucking self-medicating with alcohol and whatever.
[00:52:33]  But I, yeah, sure, release and all that.
[00:52:35]  I also just think there's a part of him I feel like is broken and I feel bad for him.
[00:52:38]  Yeah, he's absolutely broken.
[00:52:40]  But he's absolutely broken.
[00:52:42]  But the way that he coped with it was really interesting.
[00:52:44]  Yeah.
[00:52:44]  And partying maybe is a stupid thing.
[00:52:46]  Some people find like meditation, right?
[00:52:48]  That's the opposite of partying.
[00:52:49]  But what it is, like the shutting down of a brain, right?
[00:52:52]  So how do I shut my brain down?
[00:52:53]  Do I take some drugs?
[00:52:55]  Do I do this like breathing shit that kind of calms it down?
[00:52:57]  Do I get myself in this intense activity that requires all of my brain power to maintain?
[00:53:03]  It's like, this is Dennis Rodman, man.
[00:53:05]  He's just a fascinating fucking guy.
[00:53:08]  It was really cool that they showed his greatness.
[00:53:11]  Yeah.
[00:53:11]  And Phil's greatness, Phil's ability to manage ego and motivate players.
[00:53:17]  Yeah.
[00:53:18]  Unbelievable.
[00:53:19]  Now, as we kind of wrap this up, I want to hear any other takes you guys want to put out, but I want to put some more respect on Krauss.
[00:53:26]  And I wonder by the end of this documentary, if we realize how fucking great Krauss was.
[00:53:31]  Dougie takes the Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals.
[00:53:36]  Jordan is the best player in the fucking world, winning scoring titles.
[00:53:41]  Yeah.
[00:53:41]  Right.
[00:53:42]  Winning defensive player of the year titles.
[00:53:46]  Usually, when a coach takes you to the Eastern Conference finals, which is further than you went the year before and further than you went the year before that, you're on a positive trajectory moving towards greatness.
[00:53:58]  You ride with that.
[00:54:01]  The fact that Krauss was willing to take that risk at that point in time ultimately would be his downfall, but was the reason why he should be considered a great because he's willing.
[00:54:14]  He is a great.
[00:54:15]  He's one of the GOATs.
[00:54:16]  He's willing to shake shit up and roll the fucking dice on an offense nobody knew, this Tex Winter Triangle offense, right?
[00:54:24]  And a coach that really wasn't proven.
[00:54:27]  Yeah.
[00:54:27]  He really was.
[00:54:28]  He goes in Puerto Rico and in the fucking CBA.
[00:54:31]  Now we look back and go, he was probably nice.
[00:54:33]  But at the time, he's some hippie that he had to tell how to dress.
[00:54:37]  Right?
[00:54:38]  Yeah.
[00:54:39]  It is, you got to give some credit for this guy willing to roll the fucking dice.
[00:54:43]  Most people are not willing to roll the dice.
[00:54:44]  Most people go, man, if this goes badly, this is my career.
[00:54:47]  I'm out of here.
[00:54:49]  Yeah.
[00:54:49]  I get fired because I made this move that fucked up this organization.
[00:54:53]  It was on this positive trajectory.
[00:54:54]  I pissed off Michael Jordan by firing Michael Jordan's favorite coach.
[00:54:58]  He loved Doug.
[00:54:58]  They're kissing each other and shit.
[00:55:01]  And then hired the guy he doesn't like that's going to take the ball out of his hands.
[00:55:05]  What?
[00:55:07]  Like you do something like that and it works.
[00:55:09]  Of course you will trust every decision you make.
[00:55:12]  Of course when you think it's time to trade Scotty Pippen, you're going to be like, it's time to trade that motherfucker.
[00:55:17]  You get credit for that, but you also, we can't credit everybody who swallowed their ego and then be like, nah, it's cool.
[00:55:23]  The guy who couldn't swallow his ego blew the whole thing up.
[00:55:25]  Ultimately, the same thing that crushed him.
[00:55:27]  You built an empire and then tore down the empire.
[00:55:29]  And then the same thing built it, though.
[00:55:31]  Yeah.
[00:55:32]  The same thing built it and the same thing tore it down.
[00:55:34]  And it's sad, but if you don't have that fucking ego, you don't get there.
[00:55:39]  You don't get those pieces.
[00:55:40]  You don't get that offense.
[00:55:41]  You don't get all these different things.
[00:55:43]  And I completely understand the owner, Reinsdorf.
[00:55:46]  Now I completely understand why he was kind of silent and all this shit.
[00:55:49]  Because I really truly believe he was like, man, every time this fat motherfucker says something crazy, it ends up working out.
[00:55:57]  All right, bro.
[00:55:57]  I'll hear you out.
[00:55:59]  At a certain point in time, you got to trust it.
[00:56:02]  When you go get Scotty Pippen, he ends up being one of the greatest players.
[00:56:05]  You know what I mean?
[00:56:06]  You get Phil Jackson, he ends up being one of the greatest coaches.
[00:56:09]  When you go get Tony Ku coach, he ends up changing the game in a way.
[00:56:12]  When you get Rodman, it ends up fucking working out.
[00:56:15]  Like they end up actually being able to win with him.
[00:56:17]  He ends up working within the system.
[00:56:19]  Eventually, you just got to go, this guy knows what he's doing.
[00:56:23]  Yeah, I just think if you win a championship, you got to defend the championship until you lose.
[00:56:27]  Agree.
[00:56:28]  If you lose and then Phil is out, that's a little wild, but hey, man, I get it.
[00:56:32]  You didn't win.
[00:56:33]  If you win, you got, and again, this is, as a Mavericks fan, you got one championship and then you blew up the team.
[00:56:38]  And I'm just like, you just got to defend that.
[00:56:40]  You probably wouldn't have won next year even to find out.
[00:56:43]  Especially if you got Jordan.
[00:56:45]  I have a suspicion.
[00:56:46]  But he is great, though.
[00:56:47]  Undeniably, he's great.
[00:56:49]  He just made just a, he fucked it up.
[00:56:51]  So you're going to be penalized for that when you look at it.
[00:56:54]  I agree.
[00:56:54]  I have a suspicion.
[00:56:55]  What?
[00:56:56]  I feel like Krauss was 100% certain that Jordan was not coming back.
[00:57:02]  And he had this information and he trusted that information.
[00:57:06]  Because if Jordan was willing to come back, he could call Reinsdorf and say, fire Krauss.
[00:57:11]  And he could do that in a heartbeat.
[00:57:14]  The fact that he didn't make that call, the fact that he didn't say, hey, I want to come back.
[00:57:19]  I'll come back for a couple more years.
[00:57:21]  Keep Phil.
[00:57:21]  We'll rock this out.
[00:57:22]  The fact that he never made that call and never spoke about that when they asked him every single day is because he knew he was going after this year.
[00:57:31]  I think he told Phil that he was going after this year, and that's why Phil signed the one year.
[00:57:35]  I think Jerry knew, and I think Krauss knew.
[00:57:36]  Maybe he never spoke to Krauss about it.
[00:57:38]  Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner.
[00:57:40]  Maybe he never spoke to Reinsorf, but I think Krauss had on good authority that this was Jordan's last year and he had decided that.
[00:57:45]  I don't think Jordan would tell Krauss if he was leaving.
[00:57:47]  No, no, he didn't tell him.
[00:57:49]  He just had on good authority.
[00:57:50]  He had his little people sniffing around.
[00:57:52]  Maybe he heard from another agent.
[00:57:55]  He got his own sniffers.
[00:57:56]  He got his own sniffers.
[00:57:57]  He got sniffers, right?
[00:57:59]  I think he knew and he was so confident of that.
[00:58:02]  He was like, I'm not going to lock in Phil when I know for a fact Jordan's not coming back.
[00:58:08]  And Jerry knew Jordan wasn't coming back and everyone else knew Jordan wasn't coming back.
[00:58:11]  So he's like, fuck it.
[00:58:13]  I'm out.
[00:58:13]  All right, done.
[00:58:14]  You know what I think, though, also, if you could swallow ego, you get Phil back one more year and then say, convince Michael to come back.
[00:58:19]  Yeah.
[00:58:20]  Because I think if Phil went to Michael and was like, hey, let's let this ride until it's done.
[00:58:25]  Yeah.
[00:58:26]  I think Mike would have been like, all right, fine.
[00:58:27]  100%.
[00:58:29]  It's also, man, a testament to Phil.
[00:58:32]  These guys fucking love Phil, man.
[00:58:34]  Once you've played for Phil and you're a great player, you don't like playing for anybody else.
[00:58:38]  He's in your soul, man.
[00:58:39]  It's like a therapist you love.
[00:58:41]  You know, like you build like a bond with them and you're like, because they've given you so much great shit for your life and they've improved your life in so many ways.
[00:58:48]  Like you really have an affinity for them.
[00:58:50]  He was a therapist.
[00:58:52]  The X's and O's, like you said, is 10%.
[00:58:54]  He was sitting down with these guys.
[00:58:56]  What did Rodman say?
[00:58:57]  He's a friend.
[00:58:58]  Yeah, he's one of them.
[00:58:59]  I consider him one of my great friends or something like that.
[00:59:01]  Or I'm one of Phil's great friends.
[00:59:02]  Either way, he felt that bond.
[00:59:04]  Yo, that great picture of them sitting there, like, just watching tape.
[00:59:07]  Yeah.
[00:59:08]  Just watching tape together.
[00:59:09]  Also, Phil built the worst in history.
[00:59:12]  Phil built like a fucking T-Rex.
[00:59:14]  I've never seen that guy straight up.
[00:59:16]  That motherfucker is always like this.
[00:59:18]  After he finished playing his entire fucking coaching career, his entire everything, he was at least 45 degrees.
[00:59:25]  T-Rex got a short arm to prop him back up a little bit.
[00:59:28]  Phil got these long ass fucking gorilla arms just dragging everywhere.
[00:59:32]  And no shoulders, bro.
[00:59:33]  He's just an odd-looking, odd-looking individual.
[00:59:37]  He looks like how you used to draw people when you were a kid.
[00:59:39]  Just like the middle spot, just like stick arms, stick legs.
[00:59:43]  It's a really weird body, but just a weird fucking body, but a compelling figure, man.
[00:59:49]  A compelling figure.
[00:59:51]  You know what?
[00:59:51]  Shaq was so spoiled by Phil's greatness when he went to Miami.
[00:59:54]  He got Stan Van Gundy fired and made Pat Riley step in.
[00:59:57]  Remember that?
[00:59:58]  I forgot that Pat Riley coached them.
[01:00:01]  Pat Riley coached him midway through the year, fired Stan Van Gundy, and then stepped down and was like, I'll take over.
[01:00:06]  And they won the championship.
[01:00:08]  I thought it was a fucked up move or whatever, but they won the championship.
[01:00:10]  Beat the Mavericks.
[01:00:11]  That was Pat Riley.
[01:00:12]  Interesting.
[01:00:14]  I forgot that.
[01:00:16]  Another cool little Pat Riley story, just in terms of like motivation.
[01:00:19]  Mavs are up 2-0.
[01:00:20]  They're up 16 in the fourth quarter.
[01:00:22]  Pat Riley calls a timeout, I think.
[01:00:24]  And then all he does, his whole huddle, apparently, and I'm sure this is romanticized a bit, but on the whiteboard, all he did was just write season.
[01:00:31]  And then he just showed that to them.
[01:00:32]  Season.
[01:00:33]  Your season is on the line right now.
[01:00:34]  What are you going to do?
[01:00:35]  This is the season.
[01:00:36]  Five minutes left.
[01:00:37]  What are you going to do?
[01:00:39]  That's no play drawn up.
[01:00:40]  No, hey, this is how we get back in the game.
[01:00:42]  And to your point, again, 90% is not X's and O's.
[01:00:45]  It's people and motivating people.
[01:00:47]  You just write season on a board and remind them, if you lose this game, your fucking season is over.
[01:00:52]  And then apparently in game six, all he was saying at every timeout, I think I read this in a Bill Simmons article years ago was like, he was talking to him like it was a heavyweight fight.
[01:01:00]  They're tired.
[01:01:01]  They can't hang.
[01:01:02]  Just keep beating them up.
[01:01:02]  Keep beating them up.
[01:01:03]  There was no like this play, that play, this play.
[01:01:05]  It's just the psychology of go for the knockout right now.
[01:01:09]  Yo, what did you think about the Pistons like bully ball, bad boys thing?
[01:01:14]  Like, I loved it.
[01:01:17]  Do you think that they exaggerated that?
[01:01:19]  I don't think from everything I've seen, that's a very real thing.
[01:01:23]  That's like they beat up Jordan.
[01:01:25]  There was a book that the Parkinson's looking ass guy, Sam Smith.
[01:01:29]  Yeah.
[01:01:30]  He wrote a book called The Jordan Rules about this.
[01:01:34]  They talk about it in the doc.
[01:01:37]  We did not want Jordan getting off the ground.
[01:01:39]  Yeah.
[01:01:40]  So it's like the moment he jumps, foul the shit out of him.
[01:01:43]  So he doesn't want to.
[01:01:43]  Yeah, there was some assistant coach trying to say like all the other rules.
[01:01:46]  Like if he goes there, you force, if he goes baseline, you force him toward the center.
[01:01:49]  If you go this way, you do this.
[01:01:50]  And then Rodman's like, if he gets in the air, you knock his ass down.
[01:01:54]  Hurt him.
[01:01:54]  Heart him.
[01:01:55]  Well, I thought that was actually kind of cool editing that they did because that assistant coach then ends up saying the real rule.
[01:02:03]  It was those are the only Jordan rules.
[01:02:05]  And then he goes, and then the interviewer goes, what happens if Jordan goes baseline?
[01:02:10]  And then he just stops for a second.
[01:02:12]  He goes, oh, that's when Lambert and Mahorn got a hammer at me.
[01:02:16]  I'm not taking a notice of my personality.
[01:02:19]  That shit was fire.
[01:02:20]  Because he tried to front like there was no Jordan rules.
[01:02:22]  And then he has one time when he goes to the basketball.
[01:02:24]  Oh, it's hammer time.
[01:02:25]  And I don't think they're exaggerating because I don't think Jordan is making up.
[01:02:28]  That meant more to me than winning the finals in some ways.
[01:02:30]  You remember he said beating the Pistons in a lot of ways meant more to me than winning the finals.
[01:02:36]  This how big of a deal it was?
[01:02:38]  Before there was any internet, before there was any trolling, did you see the shirt Jordan wore after they beat the Pistons, what it said?
[01:02:43]  No.
[01:02:44]  After they beat the Pistons on the bus or whatever, the team playing, Jordan's shirt, what does it say?
[01:02:48]  Three Pete.
[01:02:50]  There was no three Pete for the Bulls.
[01:02:51]  You know who was going for a three-peat?
[01:02:53]  Oh, the Pistons.
[01:02:55]  I didn't realize that.
[01:02:56]  I thought it said something about the sweep.
[01:02:58]  No, maybe I misread or maybe it was other footage, but I'm pretty sure I read Three Pete, and he's wearing like a jacket over it, but that's, he's taking the Pistons three-peat shirt and wearing it after they beat him.
[01:03:08]  Wow.
[01:03:09]  And this is not for the media.
[01:03:10]  This is not for online trolling.
[01:03:12]  Oh, yeah, it bothered him.
[01:03:13]  This is just fuck y'all, fuck you all the way home.
[01:03:16]  Anybody that does not believe in him bothers him.
[01:03:18]  Remember the writers?
[01:03:19]  He goes, we took care of you.
[01:03:20]  Blah, blah, blah.
[01:03:21]  You'll be taking care of you tonight.
[01:03:22]  And I heard that story years ago too, so I know that's true.
[01:03:25]  You, you, you tonight.
[01:03:27]  I love the when they tell a story in this and then you hear it from so many other people's point of view.
[01:03:33]  And it's like, it's so accurate.
[01:03:35]  Like it adds so much credibility to this doc.
[01:03:37]  It's like, oh, yeah, that's exactly how it happened.
[01:03:39]  Like, I just love that.
[01:03:41]  It's like, so I know I'm watching this shit, and this is exactly how it went down.
[01:03:45]  They're not trying to feed me some bullshit because it's more sources, you're saying, yeah, dude.
[01:03:50]  There's a there's a great book called The Dirt.
[01:03:52]  I don't know if you guys heard of it.
[01:03:53]  It's called Motley Crew.

=== Motley Crew Rise To Fame (13:48) ===

[01:03:55]  Yeah.
[01:03:55]  And they tell the same story of their rise to fame from each of their perspectives.
[01:04:01]  There are four guys in a band, right?
[01:04:02]  And a little bit from the manager's perspective, etc.
[01:04:05]  And they were so drug-induced and like drunk the entire time, the stories completely changed, right?
[01:04:11]  So, like, one story is like, so yeah, like, you know, um, the lead singer takes this girl back into the room and starts like fucking this girl in the bathroom, and like it was crazy, and like open the door, we're all watching, et cetera.
[01:04:24]  Like, that means it was one of the craziest nights of her life.
[01:04:26]  And then, like, the story is being told from like the basis point of view, and the bass is like, Yeah, it was crazy.
[01:04:32]  Like, he took our manager's girlfriend into the bathroom and starts fucking and the manager was like, Yeah, I had to break up with that girl left.
[01:04:41]  They true, they're being honest in their recollection, but it's so drug-induced.
[01:04:45]  And this speaks to that as well.
[01:04:47]  It's like, no, no, everybody's hyper-focused.
[01:04:49]  This is like the opposite.
[01:04:50]  You remove all the drugs.
[01:04:51]  This is what happened.
[01:04:51]  This is how we felt.
[01:04:52]  Like John Paxon, whenever he's talking with like ultimate humility, by the way.
[01:04:57]  Yeah.
[01:04:57]  John Paxon got no ego, right?
[01:05:00]  He's like, you know, I was hitting some shots.
[01:05:02]  I felt kind of good.
[01:05:03]  It's like, yeah, you're a knockdown fucking shooter.
[01:05:05]  See, I sense confidence.
[01:05:06]  Yeah, I sense confidence in the lesson.
[01:05:07]  I sense like he was like, yeah, I mean, I knocked him down.
[01:05:09]  That's what I do.
[01:05:10]  I'm not Jordan.
[01:05:11]  I'll knock down my fucking shot.
[01:05:12]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:05:13]  Oh, I don't think he's unconfident, but he wasn't like egotistical about it.
[01:05:18]  Yeah, right.
[01:05:19]  He knew his role.
[01:05:19]  He's a role player.
[01:05:21]  Yes.
[01:05:21]  He's actually the ideal role player.
[01:05:23]  I have the utmost confidence in my role.
[01:05:25]  The opposite of Horace Grant.
[01:05:26]  Horace Grant felt like he had to talk himself.
[01:05:29]  Horace and MJ had issues.
[01:05:31]  Horace and MJ, there's another, I think it's like Michael Jordan to the max or some shit.
[01:05:35]  I want to watch that.
[01:05:35]  That's an IMAX joint.
[01:05:36]  I had a whole DVD, the Ultimate Jordan collection at one point, but Horace Grant.
[01:05:41]  I'm gay.
[01:05:42]  Horace Grant says something like, they're talking about how mean Michael was.
[01:05:45]  And Horace is like, Michael says some really awful things to me.
[01:05:50]  Really, just like, basically, he was like, I can't unhear the things that he said to me.
[01:05:55]  And he looked heart, yo.
[01:05:57]  He looked heart.
[01:05:59]  I felt for the guy.
[01:06:00]  I'm like, if this guy hurt you to win three rings and still hate this guy, and that's why he barely commenting on Mike.
[01:06:07]  And it's funny to hear Mike's retelling with that background.
[01:06:10]  And Mike is like, I told Horace, you know what I mean?
[01:06:12]  You can't pitch a fit.
[01:06:12]  These guys, that's when they sense weakness.
[01:06:14]  Remember, they said, Horace was like, Mike was right, but the second I would complain, the pissing, they got me.
[01:06:19]  And Mike would tell me that and he was right.
[01:06:20]  And Michael's like, you know, I gently explained to Horace that, you know, hey, man, if you want to win this game, you know, Mike ain't saying like that.
[01:06:27]  Mike was letting Maggus fly, yo, man up.
[01:06:31]  But that's why he left.
[01:06:33]  First of all, he's going to get paid more with Orlando, but I think he was done with Mike.
[01:06:35]  Like, I'm not doing this anymore.
[01:06:37]  He needed a vacation, too.
[01:06:38]  Yeah, he needed a vacation.
[01:06:39]  It's hard to maintain that focus, man.
[01:06:41]  Was this like a preview for the next episode, or did this happen in the episode when he said, um, uh, Horace was leaking information to the media?
[01:06:48]  I think that was next episode.
[01:06:50]  I didn't see it anyway.
[01:06:51]  Okay, so it's like, yeah.
[01:06:52]  And then Horace completely denies.
[01:06:54]  He's like, no, I never said a word to the media.
[01:06:56]  But the way MJ said he was like, oh, yeah, it was horror.
[01:06:59]  Like when they knew there was a rat in the see, that's another thing, though, where it's like MJ is the kind of guy who would just be like, I think it was Horace.
[01:07:07]  So it was like with Isaiah Thomas, remember, he was like, there's nothing you can do to convince me otherwise.
[01:07:12]  You can show me the video.
[01:07:13]  Oh, yeah.
[01:07:15]  The way he's watching is like, I love that shit.
[01:07:20]  And then he's just, and Isaiah Thomas's point about that handshake is when one dynasty gets beat by another dynasty, you don't have to do the humble thing.
[01:07:28]  You can just walk off.
[01:07:29]  And MJ's like, that's bullshit.
[01:07:30]  Look about, look at the time that they beat me.
[01:07:32]  And it's like, well, you aren't the dynamite.
[01:07:34]  You missed the whole point Isaiah was saying.
[01:07:35]  Yeah.
[01:07:36]  The point is, when a dynasty passes the torch, they don't do like a humble handshake thing.
[01:07:40]  They just walk off.
[01:07:41]  Did you buy that?
[01:07:41]  I thought it was a bad history.
[01:07:43]  I bought that.
[01:07:44]  I do think Isaiah is a pretty phony guy, but that I was like, oh, I could believe that.
[01:07:48]  I could believe Larry Burr.
[01:07:50]  I bought it because it happened to them.
[01:07:52]  Right.
[01:07:52]  That's the only reason we were.
[01:07:53]  He's like, that's what happened to us.
[01:07:55]  That's what we're going to do for y'all.
[01:07:56]  Now, I don't think Bill Lambert was like, let's give it to them the way the Celtics gave it to us.
[01:08:00]  Like, it was humble.
[01:08:01]  I think Bill Lambert was like, nah, we don't need to shake their fucking hands.
[01:08:03]  We don't have to do that.
[01:08:04]  Nobody did that for us.
[01:08:05]  Fuck them.
[01:08:05]  I think it was more like that.
[01:08:07]  Yeah, I guess I just figured you would remember the last year and the year before that where Jordan walked up to y'all and like shook your hands and was like, yo, they beat us.
[01:08:17]  They were a better team.
[01:08:18]  For me, that's what I would remember.
[01:08:20]  I got people in.
[01:08:21]  You know, it's like fraternity hazing where nobody likes it, but you're like, fuck that happened to me.
[01:08:25]  Matt Johnson didn't do it.
[01:08:27]  For whom?
[01:08:28]  For Jordan, right?
[01:08:29]  Matt Johnson went up to Jordan in the fucking in between the lockers and like gave him a hug.
[01:08:33]  It's an iconic pick.
[01:08:34]  Yeah.
[01:08:35]  To act, I think Isaiah Thomas would kind of act like this was acting like this is the culture of the time.
[01:08:41]  It wasn't because the team that won the most at that time didn't do it.
[01:08:45]  Well, they weren't the opportunity to do it.
[01:08:47]  But there was no real rivalry there.
[01:08:49]  That was the first time they did it.
[01:08:50]  They cheated each other.
[01:08:51]  The other thing was, at that point, that had become such a big story.
[01:08:55]  The Pistons not shaking hands.
[01:08:56]  If you're Magic and you're a savvy guy, you're not going to be like, well, fuck it.
[01:09:00]  I'll do the same thing.
[01:09:01]  Let's both be in this shit.
[01:09:02]  You're going to do the opposite if you're mad.
[01:09:04]  Maybe, maybe.
[01:09:04]  I get you.
[01:09:05]  Hug the guy, right?
[01:09:05]  I'm so happy for him.
[01:09:06]  But yo, Jordan was tight off of that.
[01:09:08]  Yo, he looked so tight.
[01:09:10]  He was tight.
[01:09:11]  He's an asshole.
[01:09:12]  He cursed.
[01:09:12]  He's like, you're not going to convince me he was an asshole.
[01:09:16]  That's why he hates him to this day.
[01:09:18]  Do they?
[01:09:19]  He didn't kiss the ring.
[01:09:20]  That's what I think it is.
[01:09:22]  He seems phony to me.
[01:09:24]  Like Isaiah Thomas.
[01:09:25]  Oh, yeah.
[01:09:25]  He's phony.
[01:09:26]  He's just too smiles and yo, son.
[01:09:30]  I saw this guy walking, I think, with his wife or something.
[01:09:32]  I lived, used to live by the theater district, and I saw them like walking out of a play.
[01:09:35]  This is like five years ago.
[01:09:37]  This guy looks fucking incredible.
[01:09:38]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:09:39]  Best skin I've ever seen on a human being.
[01:09:41]  Teeth perfect.
[01:09:43]  Look, I was almost like, yo, man, MJ is wrong, yo.
[01:09:47]  I literally was in that moment like, man, fuck it.
[01:09:50]  Fuck MJ.
[01:09:51]  Guy just looked happy and nice.
[01:09:53]  And he kind of looked at me and then I looked at him and then he was like, ah, fuck.
[01:09:56]  Do I have to talk to this guy?
[01:09:57]  I could tell that was a look in his face.
[01:09:58]  And he's just, I was like, I'm going to just let him be, but I don't want to be like, ah, yeah.
[01:10:04]  Any other thoughts?
[01:10:05]  I just like when he said, he's like, oh, yeah, I don't think I've, I've never been swept.
[01:10:11]  I usually do the sweeping.
[01:10:12]  Yeah, oh, yeah.
[01:10:13]  And I think that's part of the reason why they didn't give him a handshake at the end of the game.
[01:10:17]  Ah.
[01:10:18]  Because he's like, I've never been.
[01:10:20]  Oh, yeah, that's a big evil bro.
[01:10:22]  I've never been beat like this.
[01:10:24]  So it's like he just handled it wrong.
[01:10:26]  He said he took it back.
[01:10:27]  He said he would have done it differently.
[01:10:28]  But he also said, which I like, and this is honest, he's like, if I had known what was going to happen after, I would have shaken his hand.
[01:10:34]  Yeah.
[01:10:35]  Which is like, I didn't want to deal with all this nonsense after.
[01:10:37]  Yeah.
[01:10:37]  Not, I regret my decision.
[01:10:39]  It wasn't a fake apology.
[01:10:40]  It was like.
[01:10:41]  You still need some self-awareness to realize that.
[01:10:44]  Even though it's not just dealing with the media, the fact that it's like, okay, I probably handled this the wrong way.
[01:10:48]  And credit to him.
[01:10:49]  Question.
[01:10:49]  Go ahead.
[01:10:51]  When they froze Jordan out at the all-star game.
[01:10:54]  It was the all-star game they froze him out.
[01:10:55]  Yeah.
[01:10:56]  That was when before that.
[01:10:59]  Wait, what is this?
[01:10:59]  I don't know.
[01:11:00]  So you familiar with this?
[01:11:02]  I've heard it's not necessarily true, but go ahead.
[01:11:05]  Apparently, Isaiah Thomas tells everybody on the Eastern All-Star team, Eastern Conference All-Star team, to not pass MJ the ball.
[01:11:14]  Don't worry.
[01:11:15]  Now, I guess this happened prior.
[01:11:17]  MJ is convinced again that happened.
[01:11:19]  Isaiah is like, we know the all-star game, you always want to beat the other conference.
[01:11:24]  Also, if you watch the game, he's touching the ball.
[01:11:27]  Like, he's not, nobody's not passing to him.
[01:11:29]  He's touching the ball within the flow of the game.
[01:11:31]  Yeah.
[01:11:31]  Also, everyone there is an all-star.
[01:11:33]  They want to get their shots up.
[01:11:35]  Maybe Jordan just wasn't used to being around other people that also want to shoot.
[01:11:38]  And also could create their own shot.
[01:11:41]  Yeah, and like, we'll look you off.
[01:11:42]  Like, Jordan never got looked off his entire career.
[01:11:44]  When you're in the all-star game, Jordan's like, here, here.
[01:11:46]  It's like, I can shoot too.
[01:11:48]  I'll pull up.
[01:11:49]  In Jordan's mind, and probably rightfully so, if you look him off, that shit is on purpose.
[01:11:54]  You got a personal problem with me to look me off, motherfucker.
[01:11:56]  You out your goddamn mind.
[01:11:58]  Looking me off, bro.
[01:12:00]  There's a point where Jeremy Lim was on the Lakers and hit a game-winning three.
[01:12:04]  Yeah.
[01:12:04]  And he looks off Kobe.
[01:12:06]  He waves off Kobe.
[01:12:07]  Do you remember that?
[01:12:08]  He waves off Kobe.
[01:12:11]  And I remember watching that, like, what the fuck is this guy thinking?
[01:12:15]  Like, that to me was like the craziest thing an Asian has done on American soil over Pearl Harbor.
[01:12:23]  Like, by far, by far, like, Pearl Harger, Pearl Harbor.
[01:12:30]  I was like, I can't believe that happened.
[01:12:32]  When I saw Jeremy Linda, I was like, yo, these Asians are crazy, bro.
[01:12:36]  What is going on out here?
[01:12:40]  Oh, my God.
[01:12:42]  You know what, though?
[01:12:43]  He did cook Kobe when he was at the Knicks and they played the Lakers on national TV.
[01:12:48]  He cooked the Lakers.
[01:12:50]  Cook.
[01:12:50]  Did he cook the Lakers?
[01:12:52]  To be fair.
[01:12:53]  Kobe Beef is an Asian thing.
[01:12:55]  That's true.
[01:12:56]  That's true.
[01:12:57]  That's a good game, but I don't know about Cook.
[01:13:00]  We did exaggerate how great Jeremy is just because our expectations for him was just so low.
[01:13:06]  I expected him to play worse than the white players.
[01:13:08]  Jamie Lynn is the best New York Knick in the past 25 years.
[01:13:11]  Yo, get the fuck out of here.
[01:13:12]  Listen, son.
[01:13:13]  I think a lot of ways Jeremy Lynn.
[01:13:15]  You elect that?
[01:13:16]  No, no, well, let me make a point of it.
[01:13:18]  He is in a lot of ways the coronavirus because the way that it came in.
[01:13:22]  He was ill.
[01:13:24]  He hit so powerfully and it took so many people down.
[01:13:27]  And it was gone pretty quickly.
[01:13:29]  It was gone pretty quickly.
[01:13:29]  And we overexaggerated the effect.
[01:13:31]  Do you know what I mean?
[01:13:32]  You know who was really into it?
[01:13:33]  Asians.
[01:13:34]  Everybody else was like, I think it's good.
[01:13:35]  Is it good?
[01:13:37]  Yo, he's as close as we got, man.
[01:13:38]  As an Indian, that is as close as we got.
[01:13:40]  Damn.
[01:13:41]  We social distance ourselves from Jeremy Lynn.
[01:13:43]  So catch that work.
[01:13:48]  Man, an Asian can't even have a sick handle without you guys acting up.
[01:13:52]  Unbelievable.
[01:13:53]  I love when you rep a big part of Asia.
[01:13:56]  He's as close as I can.
[01:13:56]  Conveniently.
[01:13:57]  As motherfuckers, so conveniently.
[01:13:59]  Anybody close, bro.
[01:14:00]  Anybody close.
[01:14:01]  Goddamn right.
[01:14:02]  It's so convenient.
[01:14:03]  Shit is geographical.
[01:14:04]  Never rep like Asian Asian.
[01:14:06]  You know what else I rep?
[01:14:07]  Manny Pacquiao?
[01:14:09]  He would.
[01:14:10]  He would, bro.
[01:14:12]  I literally will look up what country is closer to India.
[01:14:15]  And if I, that's who I like.
[01:14:17]  Get the fuck up.
[01:14:18]  That's who I like.
[01:14:19]  That's my guy.
[01:14:20]  I mean, real talk, it kind of makes sense, though.
[01:14:23]  It makes the most sense.
[01:14:24]  It's like black people rooting for Africans.
[01:14:26]  Yeah.
[01:14:26]  Like, that's a continent.
[01:14:28]  Y'all share a continent.
[01:14:29]  These motherfuckers also share a content.
[01:14:31]  They look nothing alike.
[01:14:32]  Yes, good black people.
[01:14:34]  Yes, we do.
[01:14:35]  We just need to.
[01:14:38]  He said it's on record.
[01:14:40]  He said.
[01:14:43]  Got him.
[01:14:44]  Oh, fuck.
[01:14:46]  Bruh.
[01:14:47]  Yo, go, Lynn Sanity.
[01:14:48]  That was the guy.
[01:14:49]  I need to see that 30 for 30.
[01:14:51]  And I got my hand posted.
[01:14:54]  That's how long that episode goes.
[01:15:00]  I can't believe he was a Knicks fan.
[01:15:02]  How are you a Knicks fan?
[01:15:03]  He flared up, and then that's it.
[01:15:05]  That's the only time the Knicks ever won.
[01:15:07]  That's the only winning streak you had ever done.
[01:15:10]  Ruined by Carmel Anthony's ego.
[01:15:12]  Yeah, yo.
[01:15:12]  He couldn't swallow his ego.
[01:15:15]  He didn't do shit after.
[01:15:16]  Because Mello broke him, yo.
[01:15:18]  He was in the perfect system, perfect city.
[01:15:19]  Perfect system.
[01:15:20]  He wasn't strong.
[01:15:21]  Honestly, it was the perfect system for him.
[01:15:23]  D'Antony loves a ball handling point guard that can get to the basket.
[01:15:27]  Maybe didn't shoot as good as DeAntoni would like, but of course I wasn't mad at it.
[01:15:32]  As a Knicks fan, I was happy.
[01:15:33]  You know what?
[01:15:33]  That's a good idea.
[01:15:34]  The way motherfuckers exaggerate how nice he was.
[01:15:37]  He was literally the greatest player in the history of the league.
[01:15:40]  On that note, I want to see the last dance.
[01:15:43]  I want to see a last dance about Jeremy Lynn on the Raptors getting his ring.
[01:15:46]  That's what I'm documentary.
[01:15:47]  That's right.
[01:15:47]  Jeremy Lynn got his ring.
[01:15:48]  Yo, Goats leave with the children.
[01:15:49]  Hello, get no ring, yo.
[01:15:51]  Goats leave with chips.
[01:15:52]  That's what they do.
[01:15:52]  That's a fact.
[01:15:54]  He's a goat.
[01:15:54]  He got chipping you out, yo.
[01:15:56]  Yo, that's a fact, bro.
[01:15:58]  Fact.
[01:15:59]  Think about that.
[01:16:00]  What else?
[01:16:00]  I don't think it counts if you're not starting.
[01:16:02]  If you're not starting five, your ring don't count.
[01:16:04]  Say again.
[01:16:05]  If you're not starting five, your ring don't count.
[01:16:06]  Are you telling the manu Ginobly?
[01:16:09]  Nah, Manu Ginobli.
[01:16:10]  Starting that ring.
[01:16:11]  We're one of them.
[01:16:12]  Jeremy Lynn is the Manu Ginobli of the Toronto Raptors last year.
[01:16:15]  Wow.
[01:16:15]  In spirit.
[01:16:17]  In spirit.
[01:16:19]  What year was it?
[01:16:20]  He wasn't even six man off the bench.
[01:16:21]  Son, what year was it last year in the Chinese Zodiac?
[01:16:24]  I don't know.
[01:16:26]  What year is it this year?
[01:16:27]  I don't know.
[01:16:29]  Look it up, Mark.
[01:16:30]  What is it?
[01:16:31]  What is it?
[01:16:31]  No, no.
[01:16:32]  What is it?
[01:16:33]  It's bat.
[01:16:34]  You're the joke.
[01:16:36]  What year is it last year?
[01:16:37]  What year was it last year?
[01:16:42]  Hurry up, Mark.
[01:16:43]  Mark, are you going using a Dewey Decimal system for this?
[01:16:47]  It's the year of the pig?
[01:16:48]  It was a year of the pig last year.
[01:16:51]  Year of the pig.
[01:16:52]  Year of the pig, yep.
[01:16:53]  Right?
[01:16:53]  Hurry up.
[01:16:54]  Now, what is it, Year of this year?
[01:16:56]  What is it?
[01:16:57]  The year of the rat.
[01:16:58]  Year of the rat.
[01:16:59]  Swine flu.
[01:17:01]  Now we got...
[01:17:02]  Wait, is it rats?
[01:17:03]  It's bats.
[01:17:04]  Bats.
[01:17:04]  Fuck.
[01:17:05]  I was close.
[01:17:05]  I thought I was close.
[01:17:06]  I was close.
[01:17:07]  That's all bats.
[01:17:08]  I think if you said it with confidence, it would have worked.
[01:17:10]  I think it would have, right?
[01:17:11]  You're the rat.
[01:17:12]  What is it this year?
[01:17:12]  What is the virus?
[01:17:13]  The bats.
[01:17:14]  The year of the bat.
[01:17:16]  Yeah.
[01:17:16]  You know what I mean?
[01:17:20]  Third eye.
[01:17:21]  Look at that third eye.
[01:17:22]  Laurie.
[01:17:22]  I'm having to open it up, man.
[01:17:24]  Guys, that's been the review of episodes three and four of The Last Dance.
[01:17:30]  Anything else you want to comment on, Arcadia?
[01:17:31]  Yo, we're not watching the leaks.
[01:17:33]  We're going to watch it live with the rest of the day.
[01:17:35]  Yeah, watching that shit live.
[01:17:36]  Anything else you want to say?
[01:17:38]  Any other comments you wanted to make?
[01:17:40]  No, nothing I got in my notes.
[01:17:42]  Mark, you have any observations?

=== Friendship Beyond Retirement (09:06) ===

[01:17:44]  No.
[01:17:44]  I thought they were just funny quotes.
[01:17:46]  Like what?
[01:17:47]  Like when Phil Jackson walks in and goes, yo, Dennis, you want to play for the Bulls?
[01:17:51]  He goes, yeah, I don't know.
[01:17:52]  What's up?
[01:17:55]  Oh, you know what was interesting that I want to point out, actually?
[01:17:58]  The same celebration after they beat the Pistons or all dancing on the plane, Scotty is dancing with his suit on, and then Jerry Krauss comes and starts dancing behind him.
[01:18:05]  And everybody's just like, all right, man.
[01:18:07]  People didn't like him.
[01:18:08]  That was a...
[01:18:09]  There was friction for a long time with Jerry Krause.
[01:18:12]  Now, I think it's part of what made him great at the time is I don't really give a fuck.
[01:18:17]  But from what Pippen made fun of right after, like, Jerry, you think you need to sit down or something like that?
[01:18:22]  It's hard to love fat, ugly people, man.
[01:18:24]  That's just what it is.
[01:18:26]  If you're humble and nice and jolly, we love you more for it.
[01:18:30]  But if you're like bitter and kind of like curmudgeny, we hate you for it.
[01:18:34]  I think it's very difficult to be a GM and be liked by your team.
[01:18:41]  Because.
[01:18:42]  I don't think so.
[01:18:44]  In my opinion, because it is your job to assess their talent and fire them when a better situation comes on board.
[01:18:53]  And one of the things about friendship that defines friendship is the loyalty regardless of the situation.
[01:19:01]  So it's like if someone is your friend and then you meet someone who is funnier, you know what I mean?
[01:19:06]  Or you meet someone who's like fucking stronger, you meet somebody, you don't stop being friends with that person.
[01:19:12]  You're like, I like you, so I'm going to ride with you and you're my friend forever.
[01:19:16]  Yeah.
[01:19:17]  In basketball, it doesn't work that way.
[01:19:19]  It's like, oh, if I met someone who could dribble the ball better and has a better physique and does all these things better, you are fucking gone.
[01:19:25]  The camaraderie of a team is we went to war together.
[01:19:26]  So you're taking my fucking war buddy away.
[01:19:30]  I think it's wrong for a Krauss to want to be part of the gang.
[01:19:32]  But that's why I think that's where Kraus's ego.
[01:19:35]  If you're a great GM, you also got to say these guys won't ever like me.
[01:19:38]  They won't ever give me my respect.
[01:19:39]  That's the price I pay for being great.
[01:19:41]  I agree with you right there.
[01:19:42]  Like you're saying, I think both of you are kind of saying the same thing.
[01:19:44]  You're like, don't be friends with all these motherfuckers.
[01:19:48]  And what Aka is saying is Krauss didn't have that ability.
[01:19:51]  He couldn't not want to be liked by MJ or not want to be liked by Scotty.
[01:19:55]  These guys he wanted them to like him.
[01:19:57]  He wanted them to appreciate him.
[01:19:58]  And a great fucking GM is going to go, hey, I got to do my job.
[01:20:01]  In order for me to do my job well, I have to separate myself from you.
[01:20:04]  And you see that a lot of times with like some bosses, especially in corporate settings, they don't get too close to the people that work on purpose.
[01:20:12]  Yeah, 100%.
[01:20:12]  It's going to affect my decision making if I get too close.
[01:20:16]  It's hard for me to do that.
[01:20:19]  I could never lead like that because we spend so much time together.
[01:20:23]  I can't not be best friends with you guys.
[01:20:26]  You guys are with me for my whole life.
[01:20:28]  Yeah.
[01:20:28]  So if this shit grew and it's like 100 employees, there's no way you're going to be close to 100 people.
[01:20:33]  Yeah, but I could be close to my top guys.
[01:20:35]  Like I have, because the way I've been looking, I've been thinking about this.
[01:20:39]  And I was like, just like, I've been thinking, does Jordan have any friends?
[01:20:45]  Like, you don't.
[01:20:46]  You want to be Jordan, but you don't want to be old Jordan.
[01:20:50]  The guy don't look happy.
[01:20:52]  I mean, his bloodshot eyes all the time.
[01:20:54]  He's fucking just like, he just, man, that don't.
[01:20:59]  Yes.
[01:21:00]  There's a cost of greatness.
[01:21:01]  And like, I was talking to my guys last night in the group chat about this.
[01:21:04]  And I was just like, man, I see, I recognize real time the things that I have to sacrifice to get what I want, right?
[01:21:13]  Like, I want to wear the belt.
[01:21:14]  Yeah.
[01:21:15]  I want to be the greatest at stand-up, right?
[01:21:19]  And I want to hold that position for a time.
[01:21:22]  And I'm, and I have this like maniacal focus for doing that, right?
[01:21:26]  But I also recognize the cost of that is not seeing my family a lot.
[01:21:30]  Not last time me and the homies went out to dinner, I can't remember.
[01:21:34]  You know what I mean?
[01:21:34]  Like, yeah, it's like, and I'm talking about like my high school boys or my college boys.
[01:21:39]  So it's like, I'm in this situation where I know what I want and I will make these sacrifices in order to get it, but I still need to have the camaraderie of friendship.
[01:21:51]  Like that shit is so valuable to me.
[01:21:52]  So I could never work with someone that I don't enjoy being around.
[01:21:56]  For me, I couldn't do it because I know the cost.
[01:21:59]  I know what I have to sacrifice in order to do this.
[01:22:02]  So I can't, I can't just go, oh, yeah, that person's really cool.
[01:22:06]  Put him there.
[01:22:06]  I hate him.
[01:22:07]  I'm not going to do it.
[01:22:08]  Because then all of a sudden, I'm on an island.
[01:22:12]  You know what I mean?
[01:22:12]  Like, I think, I don't know.
[01:22:15]  I don't know where Jordan stands with that.
[01:22:16]  Maybe Jordan could.
[01:22:17]  Maybe Jordan was like, I don't care about none of these motherfuckers.
[01:22:19]  Even earlier in his career, right?
[01:22:20]  He was like, they were all doing drugs and shit.
[01:22:21]  I was just by myself in the room.
[01:22:23]  His first practice, I need to find who the leader is.
[01:22:26]  And then take that.
[01:22:26]  Take that motherfucker out.
[01:22:28]  That's his whole mentality, but it don't.
[01:22:31]  Would you rather be Larry Bird, who seems relatively happy and is one of the GOATs for the rest of your life or MJ, and you're the greatest ever, but you don't seem happy ever.
[01:22:40]  No, like Bird.
[01:22:42]  Bird, yeah, like, because Bird wore the belt.
[01:22:44]  Like, my feeling is like, you just have to, you just have to wear, you don't have to, but like, you have to wear it for your generation.
[01:22:50]  You know what I mean?
[01:22:51]  You have to wear it for a point of time.
[01:22:52]  It's like, I look at it like boxing or like, you know, wrestling or like MMA or one of these things, like wearing that belt at a point, you have to wear that belt in a time in history.
[01:23:02]  You know what I mean?
[01:23:02]  Because at the end of the day, we look at Jordan as the goat now.
[01:23:06]  People will not eventually.
[01:23:08]  Just like Bill Russell was looked at as the goat, and they won't.
[01:23:11]  Time moves on.
[01:23:11]  You forget the greatest war general, who knows who the fuck it was.
[01:23:15]  Maybe we look at the greatest war general as Alexander or Napoleon or something like that.
[01:23:20]  I'm sure back in the day, there was some other motherfucker, Caesar.
[01:23:22]  Fuck Larry Bird.
[01:23:24]  LeBron, the guy we always say who's is he's second.
[01:23:27]  Jordan's first.
[01:23:28]  LeBron is second.
[01:23:30]  LeBron and his wife are solid.
[01:23:32]  I mean, I'm sure he gets what he gets, and she's cool with that, and they got a wonderful agreement.
[01:23:36]  And his kids love the fuck out of him.
[01:23:38]  He's got friends, his teammates love the fuck out of him.
[01:23:41]  Would you rather be the second best, and everybody loves you, and you have like a full life?
[01:23:45]  Or I was the greatest, and I gave up literally everything.
[01:23:49]  His kids don't, I don't really see his kids talking about him like that.
[01:23:52]  I guess, I guess, like, what were you going to say, Mark?
[01:23:55]  No.
[01:23:55]  Oh, I thought you were bringing the mic.
[01:23:57]  I guess what I'm saying is, like, we look at him as the second best, but there's a generation of people beneath us that grew up with him.
[01:24:05]  Yeah.
[01:24:06]  Like, we grew up with Jordan to see him as the best.
[01:24:08]  So, best is subjective to time.
[01:24:11]  And that's why I feel like you just got to wear it if that's what you want.
[01:24:16]  If that's the goal, wearing it.
[01:24:18]  Because once you wear it, history will dictate history, documentaries, conversation pieces.
[01:24:24]  Like, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar should be in the conversation, but history has not been kind to him.
[01:24:28]  Yeah.
[01:24:28]  Right?
[01:24:28]  So, history will dictate that narrative.
[01:24:31]  Yeah.
[01:24:31]  You know, and you can control that while you're alive.
[01:24:34]  And then after you're dead, it's very difficult to control that.
[01:24:37]  But if you wear the belt, it's undeniable.
[01:24:39]  Like, it's undeniable.
[01:24:41]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:24:42]  Yeah, no.
[01:24:43]  You know, I was just thinking, you know, who gets even more impressive as you watch his documentary, though?
[01:24:46]  It's Kobe.
[01:24:47]  Because Kobe had the same Jordan mentality.
[01:24:50]  I'll never be a guy.
[01:24:51]  No disrespect to Kobe, but Jordan is always better to me.
[01:24:53]  Yeah.
[01:24:54]  But after Kobe retired, he said, How do I harness this?
[01:24:58]  And it became business and family.
[01:25:00]  And that's what it's going to be.
[01:25:02]  And like, now you have a well-rounded greatness.
[01:25:07]  Yo, you're 100% right about that, man.
[01:25:10]  Like, Kobe didn't have friends until he stopped playing ball.
[01:25:12]  Like, and nobody wanted to say this while everybody was doing the rest in peace Kobe rounds.
[01:25:18]  But the reality is nobody had a good Kobe story.
[01:25:21]  Like, I defy you to find someone who had his Kobe story that didn't end in, and then he went to work out.
[01:25:26]  Or I went to the gym and he was already there.
[01:25:29]  Like, literally, every story about Kobe, it's not something funny he said.
[01:25:33]  It's not a practical joke.
[01:25:34]  It's not something crazy.
[01:25:35]  It's he was working out.
[01:25:37]  And once he retired, though, you started hearing these stories.
[01:25:40]  Now it's fun.
[01:25:40]  It's fun, Kobe.
[01:25:41]  And he says it.
[01:25:42]  I had to figure out how to harness that.
[01:25:44]  And the fact that he did that is the best gift you could give the game for every other athlete.
[01:25:50]  Because you don't want to retire like Jordan.
[01:25:52]  Yo, I'm telling you, my man just looks son.
[01:25:54]  Attacked retirement with the same tenacity that you attacked a career.
[01:25:58]  Like, I'm actually, I'm actually looking forward, right?
[01:26:02]  Like, I'm looking forward to that point in our careers where, like, I'm not even considering it now, but eventually, the same tenacity that we're attacking this business and the same tenacity that we're attacking content and podcasts and stamp doing all these things.
[01:26:14]  Like, eventually, when we let it go, right?
[01:26:16]  Which we will, how do we attack just living?
[01:26:20]  Like, how do we attack just accepting a lovely day and enjoying that and spending some time with grandkids?
[01:26:26]  Like, how do we, how do we change our mindset from what do I need to do?
[01:26:30]  How do I take over?
[01:26:31]  How do I, you know, move the business in this direction?
[01:26:33]  How do I, you know, get bigger, et cetera?
[01:26:35]  How do you shift that to how do I do nothing?
[01:26:38]  You know, very like Buddha's approach, maybe.
[01:26:40]  Yeah, or enjoy the fucking family, which is like, bro, I can't imagine.
[01:26:44]  And Jordan says in the speech, I would hate to be my kids.
[01:26:48]  You know, who didn't hate to be Kobe's kids was Kobe's kids.

=== Veterans Vs Nagging Wives (04:58) ===

[01:26:50]  Like, once he retired, and luckily, the career span of basketball is short enough that you can retire while your kids are young for the most part.
[01:26:57]  Yeah.
[01:26:57]  But like, they, dude, they're, that was dad.
[01:27:01]  Fuck, Mambo.
[01:27:02]  That's dad.
[01:27:03]  Yeah.
[01:27:03]  To me.
[01:27:04]  And to Jordan's kids, that's MJ.
[01:27:05]  That's his airness.
[01:27:06]  That's whatever.
[01:27:07]  Then that's dad.
[01:27:08]  It seems like.
[01:27:09]  I just don't hear, you know what I mean?
[01:27:11]  I don't hear it.
[01:27:11]  Maybe it's there and we don't talk about it.
[01:27:13]  You're right, man.
[01:27:14]  It is a interesting thing.
[01:27:17]  Interesting to sacrifice for.
[01:27:19]  But like, Maybe that's what some of these, like some of these old folks, you know, like World War, World War II vets and shit, World War I.
[01:27:28]  Well, World War I vets, I think, are dead now, but World War II vets.
[01:27:31]  Like, you see these like veterans from wars, right?
[01:27:34]  And for whatever reason, you don't hear about the same like PTSD struggles with them that you do for the modern soldier.
[01:27:43]  And I'm not really sure what that is.
[01:27:45]  I'm not sure why.
[01:27:46]  I'm just kind of like throwing things out right now.
[01:27:48]  But like, maybe they came back and maybe they lived in an era where one, they were really appreciated for what they did, they were rewarded for what they did, and like they were treated like heroes, you know.
[01:28:04]  But also, maybe there's something to the fact that like they came back and thought that it was their job to like fulfill that American dream.
[01:28:12]  Okay, I'm gonna get my house.
[01:28:14]  The American dream was, I'm gonna get my house, I'm gonna get my dog, I got my wife, and I got my kids.
[01:28:17]  It wasn't, I'm gonna become a billionaire.
[01:28:20]  It's much easier to obtain that American dream of house and dog than it is billionaire.
[01:28:24]  And yo, kind of tying it back to the Phil thing: humans are tribal.
[01:28:28]  So if you got a tribe, if I got a family that's together and the tribe is together, that will help me through a lot.
[01:28:34]  Yeah.
[01:28:35]  Whereas now it's like, look, me and the girl are having problems.
[01:28:37]  We broke up.
[01:28:38]  She got the kid, whatever.
[01:28:39]  I'm alone.
[01:28:40]  And now you're alone and it's fucking loneliness will eat away at anybody.
[01:28:44]  But if it's the 50s, that wasn't a thing.
[01:28:46]  You came back, you had your wife, you had your kids, we're together.
[01:28:50]  And even if there's problems, that's got to help me on some level.
[01:28:53]  Yeah.
[01:28:54]  I wonder like how long it was before wives started nagging.
[01:28:57]  Like, how long before a husband came back from World War II, before a wife nagged?
[01:29:03]  I don't think they had the freedom to get in Maui back then.
[01:29:05]  You know what I mean?
[01:29:06]  You got to go back to the caveman.
[01:29:07]  Say again.
[01:29:08]  You got to go back to the caveman.
[01:29:09]  What do you mean?
[01:29:10]  That's when wife started nagging.
[01:29:11]  No, but like, how much time between when the husband came back from World War II, right?
[01:29:17]  Was in the house chilling before the wife started nagging.
[01:29:20]  I think you're forgetting there were some checks and balances in place back in the 50s.
[01:29:22]  What do you mean?
[01:29:23]  I mean, the wife is nagging.
[01:29:24]  There's, you know, no, there was nagging.
[01:29:27]  Yeah.
[01:29:27]  It was always nagging.
[01:29:28]  Like, there's also, yeah.
[01:29:30]  I mean, you're not going to beat your wife up because of how great she's been.
[01:29:34]  I'm not justifying hitting women.
[01:29:36]  I'm just saying the wife doesn't go, here's a souffle.
[01:29:38]  And you go, this doesn't casserole.
[01:29:40]  I'm not justifying it either.
[01:29:41]  I'm just saying there was an option.
[01:29:43]  You know what I mean?
[01:29:44]  But you nagging.
[01:29:46]  Oh, okay.
[01:29:46]  I have an option.
[01:29:47]  Right, right.
[01:29:48]  But now the option's off the table.
[01:29:49]  But the nagging is there.
[01:29:50]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:29:51]  So, what I'm asking, the question I'm asking, so you agreed nagging.
[01:29:54]  So you're just saying, what was the hang time between returning from war and nagging?
[01:29:58]  You give your girl a ring, you propose.
[01:30:01]  That's going to buy you X amount of time before she starts bitching about dumb shit.
[01:30:06]  Three weeks.
[01:30:06]  Three weeks.
[01:30:07]  I think three weeks.
[01:30:09]  Our attention span nowadays, especially with Instagram and shit.
[01:30:12]  Like the attention span is gone.
[01:30:14]  So they come back from World War II.
[01:30:16]  You don't have to be nagging in the postcards.
[01:30:18]  Say again.
[01:30:19]  I got it.
[01:30:20]  In the postcards that were sent to them while they were at war.
[01:30:23]  It's like, when are you going to wrap this war up already?
[01:30:26]  It's just so hard at home without you.
[01:30:28]  You know, the kids are just really making things tough.
[01:30:31]  I wonder if it's different because the women had to take over all the men's jobs.
[01:30:35]  So they realized how hard it was to be a man.
[01:30:37]  He came back and she was like, man, that job sucks.
[01:30:39]  And you're like, oh, you think this job sucks?
[01:30:42]  Try killing Hitler.
[01:30:45]  Ah, Inter Sante.
[01:30:47]  They were so grateful.
[01:30:48]  Maybe that's why they were like kissing and shit when the husbands got home because they're done working factory.
[01:30:54]  Spring break.
[01:30:55]  My hands are so tired.
[01:30:57]  I don't want to play softball anymore.
[01:31:00]  They had these bitches playing baseball.
[01:31:04]  That's how bored motherfuckers were like, bitches, go out there and play some baseball.
[01:31:07]  You know, son, that's some quarantine type shit right there.
[01:31:11]  It really is.
[01:31:12]  Right now in quarantine, if the only sports that were going on is women's sports, would you watch?
[01:31:17]  No.
[01:31:17]  Depends the sport.
[01:31:18]  Volleyball.
[01:31:19]  I watch porn.
[01:31:20]  Is that a sport?
[01:31:22]  Why don't we go just consider women's porn a sport, bro?
[01:31:25]  Like, it's not, it's not a sport the same way wrestling is not a sport.
[01:31:30]  You know how it finishes.
[01:31:32]  Yeah, you do.
[01:31:33]  You do know how it finishes.
[01:31:35]  I give you that, but like, I think it should be considered sport for the women.
[01:31:38]  Well, I think only lesbian porn could be a sport.
[01:31:40]  No, but go on, go on to the point.
[01:31:44]  No way, but let's hear this out.
[01:31:46]  I'll hear it.
[01:31:46]  I'll hear you.
[01:31:47]  Because then it's like, then you're competing within your own league.

=== Is Women Porn A Sport (01:18) ===

[01:31:49]  You know what I mean?
[01:31:50]  If you have guys also competing in the league, then it's not, then it's like co-ed, it's like a rec league.
[01:31:55]  See, yes, but also if you remove the guys, like I look at the guys like, you know, the pole vault, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:32:05]  That's the guy.
[01:32:06]  Oh, it's the pole.
[01:32:07]  The pole.
[01:32:08]  Exactly.
[01:32:09]  So God, he be putting in work.
[01:32:11]  Who?
[01:32:11]  I think the guys put more work in than the women most.
[01:32:14]  Come on, son.
[01:32:14]  Come on, son.
[01:32:15]  It's usually them thrashing, and the woman just has to make these stupid ass noises.
[01:32:20]  That's really what most people are.
[01:32:21]  And they got to take the pie.
[01:32:22]  Yeah, they just got to take it.
[01:32:24]  Yeah, but taking a piepe is hard, dude.
[01:32:28]  It is, bro.
[01:32:29]  Son, I do it every time.
[01:32:33]  Anyway, guys, we wanted this episode to be an hour.
[01:32:38]  It is what it is.
[01:32:39]  You're welcome.
[01:32:42]  For some more last dance content, that's episode three and four.
[01:32:45]  We'll be back next Monday with episode five and six.
[01:32:49]  Do we know what it's going to be about?
[01:32:51]  I also saw the preview, right?
[01:32:54]  Yeah, the only thing I saw was the meeting.
[01:32:57]  Yeah.
[01:32:57]  All right.
[01:32:58]  Let's see, man.
[01:32:59]  We appreciate y'all.
[01:33:00]  Thank you.
[01:33:01]  Enjoy and hope you're staying good in this quarantine.
[01:33:04]  We'll see you tomorrow with another episode of Flagrant 2.