Epoch Times - The Movie Beijing Doesn’t Want You to See | Yan Ma
Aired: 2025-08-21
Duration: 23:27


=== Producer Threatened to Spy (15:07) ===

[00:00:00]  My producer, Tofia, they tried to recruit her to be a spy before she leaves the country.
[00:00:06]  Yan Ma is the director of the new feature film, The Unrestricted War, a thriller inspired by the events surrounding the outbreak of COVID-19.
[00:00:16]  What they did after that turned a crisis, a public health crisis, to a global disaster.
[00:00:22]  In this episode, he reveals some of the incredible challenges they face to make this film.
[00:00:27]  Sometimes we shot up on the set and the owner suddenly gets scared.
[00:00:31]  So, oh, this is going to put me in danger.
[00:00:34]  Three days before filming, you auditioned a new lead for the film.
[00:00:38]  Yeah.
[00:00:40]  Yeah, that's called crazy it was, yes.
[00:00:43]  His own family members in China were threatened by the Chinese communist regime.
[00:00:47]  They cut some of my family members' income.
[00:00:50]  They cut their paycheck.
[00:00:52]  Like a convenience store next to my house, and I mean, the back of the store actually turned into a secret Chinese police station.
[00:00:59]  That's ironic to me.
[00:01:03]  This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Yanya Kellek.
[00:01:08]  Yan Ma, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.
[00:01:12]  Thank you for having me.
[00:01:14]  You've made a really, really excellent film, but there were some moments where you were wondering to yourself that maybe this film won't be made at all.
[00:01:25]  And I want to get you to tell me about them.
[00:01:27]  I'm talking about the ones that are not typical to most movies.
[00:01:32]  As a Chinese-Canadian filmmaker, we kind of knew this from the very beginning of the production.
[00:01:41]  There will be many challenges and even real life risks because many of our team members are from China, including myself.
[00:01:52]  So my family members faced a lot of pressure from the local government, the Chinese government.
[00:02:03]  Okay, wait a sec.
[00:02:05]  Explain this to me.
[00:02:07]  At what point did they experience pressure?
[00:02:10]  After I started the project, they were called to a government office.
[00:02:16]  And then when they get there, they realize they actually was led to what they call the national security office.
[00:02:29]  So they have the officers in there tell them that everything have consequences.
[00:02:34]  So basically, they issued a threat to them.
[00:02:38]  And then later, they cut some of my family members' income.
[00:02:44]  They cut their paycheck.
[00:02:46]  So that's like at the beginning of the project.
[00:02:49]  So it's almost two years.
[00:02:51]  It's still...
[00:02:53]  So how did they know that you were making this film just at the beginning of the project?
[00:02:58]  We don't have concrete evidence, but we know they have informants everywhere, right?
[00:03:04]  Whatever we do, they are closely watching.
[00:03:06]  So they will know right away.
[00:03:08]  It's surprising.
[00:03:10]  Many instances I experienced before, like we decided to do something.
[00:03:14]  And right away, next week, someone from my team just got a notice from the national security.
[00:03:24]  And they know right away.
[00:03:26]  We don't even know how they learned that because a lot of those discussions happen with a closed door.
[00:03:31]  It's a closed story discussion.
[00:03:33]  So yeah, but we did experience many of this kind of situation.
[00:03:41]  Explain to me the genesis of this film, right?
[00:03:44]  You know, this film is inspired by the pandemic, right?
[00:03:47]  So I just feel like it's important to reflect on what happened, Really, what really happened, especially at the beginning of the outbreak.
[00:04:00]  So I think that we need to see how that's why in the film, I mainly show how the antagonists use their power to manipulate people and censor information, basically weaponize the crisis and eventually lead it to a global pandemic.
[00:04:22]  So I just feel like it's very important to shine a light on this because this may happen again.
[00:04:29]  And next time, if we have something much more deadly than COVID, I would say we may not have a second chance.
[00:04:37]  So I feel like, yeah, it's important for us to talk about it.
[00:04:43]  There are so many brilliant filmmakers in China, but they just simply don't have the freedom to do this kind of film.
[00:04:50]  So for me, as a filmmaker, living in Canada, I just feel, yeah, I guess I just have to do it.
[00:04:58]  I understand that just a few days before you actually started production, before you started filming, you lost the protagonist, the main character in the film.
[00:05:08]  So just tell me about that.
[00:05:10]  Yeah.
[00:05:11]  Yeah, that was a very tough situation.
[00:05:17]  Three days before the shoot, our lead actors, LD actors, they received a lot of pressure too from their family and friends.
[00:05:27]  The lead actor got really worried because he really believed that he will get harmed by the Chinese government.
[00:05:38]  And one day, in the middle of the night, he got a phone call and there's nobody speaking on the other end.
[00:05:45]  And it's just really scared him.
[00:05:47]  And yeah, the next day he just told us that I have to leave.
[00:05:50]  I have to go back.
[00:05:51]  I have to go home.
[00:05:53]  Yeah, this kind of thing is like, it never happened in the film industry because the wardrobe are prepared for him.
[00:06:02]  And it just created, it puts us in a very difficult spot.
[00:06:08]  And so we had to find a new actor and basically start over three days before.
[00:06:13]  So this is kind of like a challenge we are facing during the production.
[00:06:18]  It happens a lot, right?
[00:06:20]  This kind of thing.
[00:06:21]  So yeah, it's real.
[00:06:22]  I mean, this fear, this effect of CCP, like in the Western world, they're real.
[00:06:31]  We felt it throughout the whole production.
[00:06:35]  It's not something like we feel so far away.
[00:06:37]  It's not far away.
[00:06:38]  Sometimes we shot up on a set and the owner suddenly gets scared.
[00:06:42]  It's like, oh, this is, I think it's going to put me in danger and I'm not going to rent you this set anymore.
[00:06:50]  This kind of situation we run into all the time.
[00:06:56]  I mean, this is really astonishing.
[00:06:59]  I mean, even, you know, you're talking to someone who's quite aware of the Chinese communist regime's influence activities in America.
[00:07:06]  We cover this on the show quite often.
[00:07:09]  But what you're describing just as a practical reality, right, is astonishing.
[00:07:15]  And again, I mean, I think clearly your film is called The Unrestricted War.
[00:07:22]  What happened to you is, you know, in the name of the film, in the production, there's a kind of an interesting, I think the young people these days call that meta.
[00:07:32]  It's kind of unbelievable in a way.
[00:07:36]  Ironically, I have, you know, there last year, or two years ago, they have this PlayStation, overseas PlayStation from the Chinese government established in North America.
[00:07:48]  I actually got one of this right in my neighborhood, like one minute walk from my house.
[00:07:56]  Because I was watching on the map, like you know, from the news, they showed where all the stations, the police station are.
[00:08:04]  And I say, oh, one of them is actually right in front of my house.
[00:08:09]  It's in the convenience store, in the back of the convenience store.
[00:08:12]  Just remind me about what these CCP overseas police stations are.
[00:08:17]  What is that actually?
[00:08:19]  It's basically like CCP, they send out this news to all the Chinese people outside the country.
[00:08:30]  They said they are establishing this police station overseas so all the Chinese citizens can go there and basically provide information.
[00:08:44]  If they see anyone doing anything that will harm China or doing anything that make the government look bad, you can just go to this police station and report them.
[00:08:57]  They have overseas operators will help.
[00:09:02]  I don't know exactly how they will help, but this is how far they reached in the Chinese community.
[00:09:09]  Again, sort of, you know, we hear about the Chinese police stations and so forth, but you don't, you know, it doesn't hit home.
[00:09:18]  It hits home a lot more when it's one minute away from your home and you're making a film that's critical of the Chinese Communist Party.
[00:09:25]  Yes.
[00:09:26]  Right.
[00:09:27]  It feels unreal because it's like the convenience store next to my house and I mean the back of the store actually turned into a Chinese police station, a secret Chinese police station.
[00:09:38]  That's ironic to me.
[00:09:41]  As you told me earlier, your relatives have been threatened.
[00:09:45]  They've had their pay cut because of your work.
[00:09:49]  What do you think they're trying to accomplish with that?
[00:09:51]  Well, obviously they wanted to put pressure on me.
[00:09:57]  Just stop whatever I'm doing.
[00:10:00]  But to me, I think the best way to react to this is do even more.
[00:10:06]  Because you can back down.
[00:10:09]  Once you back down, they know they have you in their pocket.
[00:10:14]  They know that this works.
[00:10:15]  It will just go worse.
[00:10:18]  Jan, we're going to take a quick break right now.
[00:10:20]  And folks, we're going to be right back.
[00:10:24]  And we're back with the director of The Unrestricted War, Yan Ma.
[00:10:28]  If this film becomes big, and I think it really has the potential to, you've made a really powerful film here.
[00:10:36]  Aren't you worried that it might have greater repercussions on your family back home?
[00:10:41]  Yes, all the time.
[00:10:42]  It really is like, especially to me, as Chinese, this kind of thing really can impact us a lot.
[00:10:54]  But I don't think I can walk away.
[00:10:57]  My conscience won't allow me to do that, firstly.
[00:11:00]  And then secondly, if I stop because of this, then they know, oh, this works for him.
[00:11:08]  They won't stop.
[00:11:09]  They will just do more.
[00:11:11]  I experienced many of these kind of cases from my friends.
[00:11:17]  They all experienced this before.
[00:11:20]  There was a first time, always a second time.
[00:11:22]  They will go to your family again, but this time they will say, okay, we need you to do this for us.
[00:11:30]  Otherwise, your family is going to be in trouble again.
[00:11:33]  So they slowly turn you to work for them.
[00:11:37]  This is how for someone that doesn't have the bottom line, they can, yeah.
[00:11:42]  This is how they manipulate people.
[00:11:46]  Again, as Chinese, like someone who grew up there, I knew all their tricks very well.
[00:11:53]  Yeah, and I mean, again, this is, of course, shown in various ways, you know, with the Canadian family, right?
[00:12:01]  I mean, I'm not going to give away some of the plot twists, but let's talk about unrestricted war.
[00:12:09]  Okay, of course, in this instance, I think the unrestricted war is using the virus as a weapon, in effect, right?
[00:12:17]  Again, whatever the origin was to basically, you know, affect the West in a very negative way, right?
[00:12:23]  And, you know, which is actually what happened in reality.
[00:12:26]  I mean, the whole, you know, the whole economy was closed down ultimately, right?
[00:12:32]  And certainly that decision on the CCB side played a role in that, whatever the total decision-making was.
[00:12:43]  Tell me a little bit more about other realms of this unrestricted war.
[00:12:50]  Notice, to be honest, I just feel it's everywhere because we are so closely connected to China in so many ways.
[00:13:00]  I'll give you a fun example.
[00:13:03]  Like all the international students, right?
[00:13:05]  I came to Canada as an international student.
[00:13:07]  And my producer, too, Sophia, she was sent to Canada as a student study, right?
[00:13:16]  And she actually was recruited.
[00:13:18]  They tried to recruit her to be a spy before she leaves the country.
[00:13:24]  That really happens to her.
[00:13:26]  And she said, of course, she said no, she refused.
[00:13:28]  But even for all the normal students that you decided to go to a different country and then you were approached by a Chinese spy agency for this kind of task.
[00:13:43]  I'm just giving you an example like this to show that to them, it's really, there's no boundaries.
[00:13:49]  They do anything necessary to get what they want.
[00:13:54]  Like right now we have so many Chinese internet influencers, even platforms, and filled with their ideology and propaganda even.
[00:14:09]  It's really everywhere, including the fentanyl, what happened on the street.
[00:14:15]  And the so-called collaboration with the Western companies allow them to do all kinds of commercial espionage.
[00:14:26]  And even many influence are made on the foreign politicians.
[00:14:34]  So this, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
[00:14:37]  Well, in Canada, there's pretty strong evidence that a number of elected parliament members were elected in significant part with CCP money.
[00:14:50]  Yeah, I heard that on the news.

=== Happy Film Reception (00:55) ===

[00:14:55]  So what has been the response of the film?
[00:14:58]  You've screened it now in a number of places.
[00:15:00]  I just watched it when you screened it in Congress here in Washington, D.C. What has been the reaction of the audiences?
[00:15:10]  The reaction from the audience is actually incredibly good.
[00:15:15]  I'm very happy about it.
[00:15:19]  I think the audience really get the message behind the film.
[00:15:28]  And we tried a few festivals, but we get a response that they are a little concerned about their topic because some of the very big festivals, usually they are very connected to China.

=== Chinese Filmmakers' Dilemma (06:00) ===

[00:15:45]  A lot of filmmakers, Chinese filmmakers, came every year.
[00:15:48]  So they're concerned that, because this happened to them before, if they accept our film, the Chinese government will ask the rest of the Chinese filmmakers to leave the festival.
[00:16:00]  So they will suffer a loss.
[00:16:04]  So we experienced this in Taiwan Film Festival before the Golden Horse.
[00:16:13]  They said the same thing.
[00:16:15]  If we accept you, that means we lose all other Chinese film.
[00:16:20]  Because the government will just force them to withdraw.
[00:16:25]  You know, it's very interesting.
[00:16:26]  It reminds me, there's a really powerful book called The Collaboration.
[00:16:32]  It was written about how Hollywood worked with the Nazi regime in the 1930s to make sure, I believe in the middle of the 1930s, there was not a single film made critical of Nazi Germany, even though these extreme anti-Semitic policies were already kind of being put in place.
[00:16:51]  Not just anti-Semitic, there were all sorts of red flags, but Hollywood basically didn't notice, even though there were filmmakers who wanted to make those films.
[00:17:02]  We also know that.
[00:17:05]  There's an eerie parallel here.
[00:17:08]  That's just happens for normal for culture market sometimes.
[00:17:16]  Even including the Holocaust, in the beginning, when the Nazi regime is still there, before they were defeated, it's like no one believed it.
[00:17:28]  Same thing, it reminds me about the organ harvesting, too.
[00:17:30]  I don't know if you're probably familiar with the topic.
[00:17:34]  When we first heard about it, it was just like, that was 2003, 2004, very early.
[00:17:40]  But yeah, not all of this gradually, I mean, the culture products are picking that up.
[00:17:48]  I hope that will make a difference because it is important, because this is what opened people's mind.
[00:17:54]  So they want to do something about it, right?
[00:17:57]  Some news is too shocking.
[00:17:59]  It's just maybe, yeah, the general public will react to it very slowly.
[00:18:04]  That's why, I mean, like, it's actually a great responsibility for all the filmmakers and writers to focus on issues like this.
[00:18:15]  Because it can shape opinion for the public, right?
[00:18:21]  So they can start thinking about this.
[00:18:25]  And here's the thing, right?
[00:18:26]  I mean, in the 30s, it wasn't really clear that there would be this mass killing of Jews that happened during World War II.
[00:18:35]  It was clear there were these extreme anti-Semitic policies and the language of genocide language and things like that.
[00:18:44]  And so you're talking about this kind of denying how easy it is for us to die.
[00:18:51]  Part of it is human nature, I think.
[00:18:53]  Part of it is we don't want to know about some of the darkest things.
[00:18:56]  We don't want to believe that they're happening.
[00:18:59]  I've encountered that.
[00:19:00]  I've discussed this again on this program in the past.
[00:19:04]  And on the other hand, there's also this aspect where you have to make a sacrifice.
[00:19:10]  You have to make a personal sacrifice, financial or otherwise, prestige maybe, in order to publicly accept that a government is doing something terrible and say yes, right?
[00:19:24]  So I guess my question is, why have you chosen to make this sacrifice?
[00:19:29]  I guess I just, I feel the responsibility.
[00:19:33]  Like, because most of the Chinese makers, there's so many brilliant filmmakers, Chinese filmmakers, they don't have the freedom to do it.
[00:19:42]  And I'm here, at least I can say something.
[00:19:46]  And for the Western filmmakers, for most of them, it's also very difficult for them to do research and access information, find information behind the subjects.
[00:19:59]  It is almost impossible.
[00:20:01]  So for me, I guess I feel I have to do it.
[00:20:05]  I'm still lucky, because I'm in here.
[00:20:07]  At least I'm safe.
[00:20:09]  Thinking about other people that like the whistleblowers for the pandemic, right?
[00:20:14]  And think about the human rights lawyers in China and all the Fangung practitioners in China.
[00:20:21]  They paid a much higher price for speaking the truth or just have a different voice.
[00:20:27]  It's tough, but sometimes you have to do the right thing, I guess.
[00:20:33]  Just like the whistleblower in the film.
[00:20:36]  If you don't do it, it's going to be always like this.
[00:20:41]  There's something really beautiful about what you just said.
[00:20:47]  So where can people watch the film?
[00:20:50]  It will be released on Ganjing World Plus.
[00:20:54]  We will release the film on all the major platforms, including Apple TV and Amazon Prime and YouTube movies.
[00:21:05]  So yeah, we can find the film on all the VOD platforms.
[00:21:10]  Well, Jan, this film is profound, incredible.
[00:21:14]  I'm going to encourage everybody that's watching to watch it.
[00:21:18]  We're going to finish up now, but I'm going to roll the trailer right after we finish.

=== Better Consideration Needed (02:07) ===

[00:21:22]  So I encourage our audience to stay and check out the trailer at the end.
[00:21:27]  And congratulations on an absolutely incredible film.
[00:21:31]  It's been such a pleasure to have had you on.
[00:21:33]  Thank you so much.
[00:21:38]  Wipe her from her database and burn the body.
[00:21:40]  Keep this contained, or you will join her in the furnace.
[00:21:44]  How'd you even get these numbers?
[00:21:47]  That's a state secret.
[00:21:50]  I'll be charged with espionage.
[00:21:53]  Then you better consider a way not to get caught.
[00:21:56]  We will lose everything of value here in China.
[00:22:01]  They both exhibit high-temperature, severe headaches, and I'm the most concerned that it might be quite contagious.
[00:22:10]  Why waste the good pandemic, right, General?
[00:22:14]  You have a serious viral outbreak that can threaten the whole world.
[00:22:18]  You mean fake news.
[00:22:26]  I'll never be able to come back to China.
[00:22:28]  Right now, our safety is what matters most, nothing else.
[00:22:34]  You saw the chaos in the hospital, right?
[00:22:36]  If the party has a plan, it needs to be better.
[00:22:39]  You think you know better than the party leaders?
[00:22:42]  I need to be with my family.
[00:22:43]  They will remain there to complete your mission.
[00:22:47]  I will not commit a crime against humanity.
[00:22:51]  The war never ended for us.
[00:22:53]  So to double-cross me, Dr. Karan, is something I cannot allow.
[00:23:23]  Thank you all for joining Yan Ma and Mi on this episode of American Thought Leaders.