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Oct. 20, 2023 - Epoch Times
37:32
Former Resident: Why San Francisco is on the brink of losing its unique culture | Jennifer Sey
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San Francisco was the most welcoming place on the planet.
I'd never felt at home in a place like I did in San Francisco.
It's quite different now.
Can you explain what it is like?
It doesn't feel like a civilized country or city.
There were people dead on the street in my last few months there.
My car was broken into five times in two months.
My guest today is Jennifer Say.
She was the brand president of Levi's and longtime San Francisco resident.
She was forced to resign from her position at Levi's and decided to leave the city she once loved.
And yet, it just keeps getting worse in San Francisco.
In what has to be one of the wealthiest cities in the country, they pretend everything is for the vulnerable and disadvantaged.
That isn't what happened.
Just for asking the question, are we sure this is the right thing to do?
You are an evil bigot that needed to be silenced.
Today she'll talk about her experience as a resident living in San Francisco and what caused her to leave the city and California.
Anyone who expresses concerns or complaints about the current situation is called a racist.
I feel betrayed by the people of that city.
I couldn't live there.
I couldn't look them in the eye again.
I'm CMI Karami.
Welcome to California Insider.
Jennifer, it's great to have you on.
Welcome.
Thanks for having me.
We want to talk to you about San Francisco.
You were a resident for many years.
You moved into San Francisco and then you left.
Can you tell us what was San Francisco like?
I moved to San Francisco from the South Bay, although I'm from the East Coast, but I went to college in the South Bay, moved to San Francisco in 1992, and I loved it.
It's hard to describe how much I loved it.
I always tell people, if you ever felt like a weirdo, if you ever felt strange or like an outsider, San Francisco was the most welcoming place on the planet.
People from all different walks of life.
Everything was okay.
Didn't matter.
You were a nerd, a hippie, a skater, a punk rock, all of it.
Everybody came together and there was diversity of viewpoint and background and you had this big artist community and you could afford to live there really if you didn't Did people respect each other for having different ideas and views?
It definitely felt that way to me.
Certainly the city has always been known for its progressive politics, but I liked that.
I, up until recently, would have considered myself left of left of center, and I liked it.
I lived there until 2021.
In California, over 30 years, it's become a place of such aggressive conformity.
And if you don't uphold whatever the most far-left narrative is, if you dare to ask any questions, you will be smeared and vilified and pushed out of your job.
And this is not the place I fell in love with.
Can you explain what it is like?
It is conformity.
Can you explain what it means and where it comes from?
Yeah, it's an ideological conformity in San Francisco.
You have a small, very vocal minority of Ideological left-wing activists.
I think it's a very small minority.
And no one is pure enough.
No one is good enough.
And it cows the other citizens into silence.
Because I actually believe most of the people there think a lot of it is crazy and nonsense.
But everybody's afraid of this vocal, punitive minority.
And the policies that are being further there are harmful and destructive to this once great city.
Do you have any examples of how this culture is impacting people?
You were impacted by this, right?
Yeah, I think that this sort of enforcement of conformity and obedience to Authority or set of rules, it sort of accelerated during COVID and lockdowns and restrictions.
One example, when we were finally allowed to go outside and go to the park, you were allowed to congregate, but only with one household.
So you weren't allowed to mix households outside.
That's how sort of Byzantine and crazy and ridiculous these rules were.
So I was at the park with my family, four children.
Large family, maybe doesn't look like one family.
Nobody has four children in San Francisco.
My two older children much older than the younger, so we looked not like one household.
And someone called the police on us.
We were approached by a police officer who demanded that we prove that we lived in one household in the summer of 2020.
I never in my wildest dreams thought I would see something like this in the United States.
People called, if they saw that you had people in your home, they would report you.
Like if somebody rang the bell at my house and someone across the street saw that, they would call this number that was set up to report on people and to snitch.
I mean, where do we live?
My family, you know, playgrounds, as I said, were closed for nine months.
There was yellow caution tape, the doors were locked.
We would jump over the fence and go to the playgrounds, and people called the police on us.
And it's very hard to, like, because it's all apartments, right?
Everything's apartments.
Yeah, I mean, no one has a yard.
It's hard to have kids, like...
No one has a yard.
I mean, look, I was an executive.
I had a very nice apartment.
I had no yard.
I mean, some people, I guess, do.
The very, very, very rich might have yards.
But the playgrounds are where kids play.
The basketball courts.
All of it.
No.
Off limits.
You couldn't do any of it.
I mean, me and my family probably had the police called on us at least ten times.
Wow.
For playing at a basketball court, for playing in a playground that was empty.
Not to mention the people that just came up and just screamed at us and called us the worst names.
I mean, I was at the beach with my daughter, who was only about four at the time.
We didn't have masks on at the beach.
There was no one there.
Some woman out of nowhere came and screamed in my face that she would not be afraid for me when my children died.
Or she would not feel sorry for me when my children died.
Because I would have killed them.
Wow.
That's the tolerant left in San Francisco.
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Now let's go back to the interview.
Was it just the public schools that were closed?
In fact, it was just the public schools in San Francisco that were closed for the full 18, 19 months.
The private schools all opened for in-person in the fall of 2020, so around August in 2020.
My conflict happened during COVID. And I was opposed to prolonged public school closures, as well as other restrictions on children.
It was very clear from the beginning.
The data did not suggest this was necessary.
Even if it did, I would argue it's a violation of our basic civil rights.
50,000 public school children in San Francisco were kept out of school for about 19 months while wealthy private school children went to school.
So they're hypocrites too.
They pretend everything is for the vulnerable and disadvantaged.
That isn't what happened.
Rich kids went to $60,000 a year private schools while poor kids were stuck home alone.
It's gross.
It's hypocritical.
So what they even say they believe, they don't even believe, not really in practice.
But if you were to express a view, even just ask a question, you don't even have to have a view.
Is this good?
Is this bad maybe?
Is this bad for kids?
You were I smeared and vilified and called every single name under the sun I was for two years.
And eventually, you know, I left a year into that so that my children could go to school.
But just for asking the question, are we sure this is the right thing to do?
You are an evil bigot that needed to be silenced.
And how would they approach you to give you this message?
Would they come to you to have a debate with you?
From what you're explaining, what San Francisco used to be, probably people would debate a lot of ideas.
But now, it's like, how does it work?
You accept the view.
You know, the way that message got to me was it was through employees in the workplace, but they didn't come to me.
They went to tell on me to HR or they went to tell on me to my boss, the CEO. No one came to me to have a conversation to say, hey, I know you're concerned about the kids.
Can we talk about this?
Because maybe this is too dangerous and we shouldn't have the school.
No one did that.
You know, sent emails and started email campaigns to my boss, the CEO at Levi's, as well as the head of HR and corporate communication.
Just ad hominem attacks.
Nobody wants to have a conversation on the merits.
And at first, when I was called names, I tried to defend myself.
I very quickly realized that's pointless.
And you were actually left of center yourself, because you're kind of part of this progressive culture, right?
Yeah, my whole life I would have called myself left of left of center.
Probably further left than the people that I worked with, for the most part, or at least the other executives that I worked with.
But the minute You question, and for whatever reason, lockdown during COVID was the policy of the far left, even though It was harmful to the working class, to poor children.
It was harmful to the most vulnerable they claimed to be protecting.
It was the most harmful to those people.
If you questioned it because it was a policy of the far left, you were vilified.
So I don't consider myself left of left of center anymore.
Do you know how many people were complaining?
You were a big executive at Levi's, right?
Yeah, I had worked at Levi's for 20 years when I started to resist the closure of public schools and other restrictions on children.
I lasted there another two years during my advocacy, but eventually was ousted from the company.
It was a very small and punitive minority.
I think there is a very small percentage of, you know, San Franciscans and just people who would consider themselves of the left more broadly outside of San Francisco and California that are aggressively policing everybody's views on the left.
I think it's a small percentage.
I think at my place of employment, Levi's, I think it was a handful of employees sending notes.
To the head of HR. I don't think it was a large number.
They never shared it with me, but I'm pretty confident it was not a large number.
But that was unacceptable that, you know, these six employees were upset about it.
It didn't matter that we recovered really fast and really strong coming out of COVID. It didn't matter that the stock price had doubled under my tenure.
And that all of their sky is falling warnings never came true that I was going to be a reputational risk to the company.
None of that mattered.
Three angry 22-year-olds complained.
And so I had to go because I had violated this tenet of the Democratic Party platform.
That's my interpretation.
Now, what other aspects of life in San Francisco you have to be careful with?
Well, I think, first of all, the experience of living in San Francisco, outside of the ideological conformity, the viewpoint...
It just became a very unlivable place.
It's always had the lowest percentage of children in any major city.
There's more dogs than kids, right?
There's more dogs than children.
They're more tolerant towards dogs than children.
And that was certainly something I'd observed over the years.
There's very little tolerance for children.
You know, if you were at a Restaurant and your kid, young child ran up and people would sneer at you.
I live in Denver now.
Nobody cares.
People just accept that young children can be Boisterous and maybe sometimes don't behave like little adults.
And that's okay.
It's family friendly.
So they've always been sort of intolerant of children, I would say.
And I think that intolerance was reflected in the COVID policies.
I mean, playgrounds were closed for nine months.
Basketball hoops were removed.
Kids could not play basketball.
But golf courses were open.
You couldn't surf.
The beaches were closed.
The hiking trails were closed.
I mean, anything that would have been healthy for young people to do outside, they were not allowed to do.
The schools were closed.
Two-year-olds were masked for well over two years.
I mean, that makes San Francisco a global outlier.
And the United States.
No other country did that.
No other country on Earth.
It's hard not to see that as...
As child-hating, honestly, for me.
But beyond the COVID policies, the homelessness is out of control.
It's like nothing I don't think anyone can understand if they haven't been.
I mean, there was a homeless encampment during COVID that was about the size of a football field that was half a mile from my house.
Just tents and open-air drug use everywhere.
That's not...
You can't raise your family there.
And that is...
The least humane thing for these poor folks suffering.
And no one is trying to help them.
It's just more harm reduction.
And if you express a view that is this isn't working, then you are a bigot and a horrible person.
You go into the same bucket.
So there are certain issues you express into the viewer in this bucket.
You're a bigot.
That's always the answer.
You're a racist.
You're a bigot.
You're anti-LGBTQ. It's the ad hominem attack.
If you say anything that veers from The furthest left outreaches of the Democratic Party, which dominate the discourse in San Francisco.
So for the average San Franciscan that's living there, do they feel this pressure or do you think they're fine with it?
The population in San Francisco has changed dramatically over the last 25 years.
It used to be sort of a haven for young people, for creative people.
You could live there if you didn't have a lot of money.
Then, slowly but surely, you know, the tech boom took over.
And there were fits and starts, right?
Because you had the first tech bust and then a lot of...
It got a little more normal again.
But at some point in the mid-2000s, it felt to me like the city was taken over by young people who wanted to sell their app or make millions in tech or young tech Google millionaires.
And everybody else...
So they're just...
One, there was just uniformity in a way that I had not experienced in San Francisco before.
And then, because there were so many wealthy people there, property values from the tech boom, No one else could afford to live there, which, you know, increased the uniformity because young artists couldn't afford to live there anymore.
Teachers that taught in the city couldn't even afford to live there.
So it just became more and more the same.
So it's like the elite tech entrepreneurs that kind of take over the city.
That's what it felt like.
Or tech employees.
Yeah, I mean, that's how it felt to me.
And I never worked in tech, so I could sort of view it from afar.
Yes, so you have these young, wealthy couples with no children, or they have one children when they're much older, and It just became all the same and yet these young tech workers embrace, at least in name, they present themselves as embracing these far left, very far left politics.
Even though I think in practice they don't.
They all send their kids to fancy private schools.
They don't actually want to be around people different than them.
They're hypocrites.
So San Francisco went through this change, and you moved out.
What do you think is the impact for the ones that are staying?
What is it going to look like?
Well, I think it's, I believe it's dire.
Seven and a half percent of San Franciscans left over the course of 2020 to 2021.
Highest exit rate in the country.
That's bad.
You have businesses closing.
I mean, goodness, it's been written about enough.
You have Nordstrom, Walgreens, Whole Foods, Anthropologie, the list goes on.
Businesses don't want to do business there because of the theft and the violence in the stores.
How do you not pay attention to that?
San Francisco was always considered somewhat inhospitable to business based on taxes, etc.
But if you cannot Have a store open without risking your retail sales associates' health and safety.
I mean, you can't do business there.
I think, ultimately, if the city fails to respond to the current crisis, You will have a city that is the very, very wealthy who can cordon themselves off and enjoy the beauty of the city and cordon themselves off from any of the unpleasantness.
You'll have very, very rich people and you'll have very, very poor people.
Who can't leave?
And, you know, you'll have homeless people and drug-addicted and mentally ill people on the streets as you do now, but it'll be like this and everyone else will leave.
I mean, that's a little dramatic, some won't, but that'll be the, I believe, unless they course-correct and make it a city that is once again livable for families and law-abiding citizens.
That's the inevitable result.
Before we get into asking about the solutions, what the city can do, San Francisco leads California as well, right?
And also, I think on the liberal side, the nation and these ideas.
Do you think the liberal movement is kind of...
If San Francisco is leading it, they're kind of losing that diversity, that kind of open-mindedness, thinking that you were part of, right?
Yeah, I mean, I think we now all know that the Democratic Party is no longer the party of the working class.
It is the party of the college-educated elite.
And I think San Francisco and California more broadly are reflective of that.
And California and San Francisco sort of Think of themselves as progressive policy leaders on the Countries stage and I think other aspiring progressive states do follow San Francisco's lead on all kinds of issues whether it's education or homelessness and you know mental health and their policies aren't working I don't know why anybody is following the lead of San Francisco and California more broadly but
they are and I think if states continue to do that they will experience the same failings and I think there is a real divide Happening in the United States, because people want to live in places where they can be themselves, they can say what they think, where their families are safe.
And you do see a real exodus from cities.
You know, for many years in the 2000s, they were saying, oh, there's mass urbanization.
Everybody is going to live in the cities in the future.
We're seeing the exact opposite now, and I think it's these policies.
Do you think the average liberal, like you were left of the left, right, left of the center, so you think people that have been committed to the Democratic Party, do you think they understand where this party is going?
Do you think they are seeing?
Well, I would argue being a liberal and being a Democrat are not the same things, and I don't actually think I've changed all that much.
I still believe in It's a cliché at this point, but sort of classical liberalism.
I still believe in free speech and open debate and dissent.
I believe that's fundamental and foundational in this country.
I think it's the left, the Democratic Party, that has changed and become completely illiberal and do not respect civil liberties in any way.
But I do not think that the Democratic Party is anywhere close to having a reckoning on this.
I think they think it's all working.
They think they're the good guys.
You know, I don't know what's going to change it for the party to sort of be...
I mean, it's going to take a major loss, which they haven't had yet.
And San Francisco, it looks like the city is on the brink of collapse because the real estate sale, like we just witnessed that the commercial real estate is significantly lower.
Downtown is not doing well.
Yeah.
Well, part of the problem with the downtown is it has the lowest return to office occupancy rate of any city in the country post-COVID. Employees have refused to go back to work.
It's affecting productivity.
It's affecting performance.
And it's decimated the downtown area.
If there's no people downtown for work, all those small businesses close.
All those lunch spots, all those corner stores, everything closes.
So it's decimated the downtown area.
And there's crime all across downtown, which is why all these big stores have closed that I mentioned.
So it's just this freefall of the economy and the general standard of living.
And yet, real estate is still...
It's very expensive to live there.
At a certain point, why would people want to do it?
Why do you want to pay four times, five times what you'd have to pay to own a home or rent an apartment and then experience all of this?
Property crime, violent crime, all of these things.
Can you tell us more about your job?
You actually grew in your company.
You were in a higher position and then you...
Essentially canceled.
You got canceled.
I did.
Your views.
Yeah.
That had nothing to do with business, right?
That's right.
Yeah.
I started at Levi Strauss& Company in 1999.
It was like my third job.
You know, I'd worked throughout the 90s.
I'd worked at The Gap.
Another big apparel brand in San Francisco.
But when I got the chance to work at Levi's, which was a brand I'd loved and worn since I was a child, I was very excited.
And what I loved about Levi's is, and it felt this way to me when I got there, the culture was really one where I felt like I could be myself.
Ironically.
And I worked there from 1999 until 2022, so a really long time, 23 years at the company.
And I worked my way up.
I started as an entry-level marketing assistant.
In 2013, I became the chief marketing officer and a key member of the executive team that took the company public.
And in 2020, I became the brand president and was next in line to be the CEO. And then you became vocal on this COVID, which had nothing to do with the work, right?
Had nothing to do with work.
And you were vocal about the school opening, right?
Schools and playgrounds.
I really focused my advocacy to the policies that I felt were harming children, which they were.
We've seen that play itself out.
From the very beginning, I was vocal about closed public schools in particular.
The harms that would be done to the 50,000 public school children in San Francisco, half of whom are low-income children.
You know, the same group of people that the far-left claims to care about.
They were neglecting and, you know, untold harms were Being perpetrated in the name of protecting these children.
And so I was very outspoken.
My own children went to public school.
I knew and understood the population in the schools.
And that these kids were not safer at home.
They were safer in school.
And I was told repeatedly over the course of two years that I needed to stop saying these things while my peers sent their kids to private schools in person.
And I did not agree to stop.
So I got pushed out.
Why did you send your kids to public school?
You know, my oldest child is 22.
He started school, gosh, 2004, 2005, something like that.
I never thought to send him anywhere but public.
I feel like my family is part of the city we live in.
I want my children...
I felt like the private schools were these, like, cordoned-off elite institutions of just...
You know, just total uniformity.
Everybody's the same.
You know, everybody's from a very privileged background.
And my kids have a privileged background.
I'm not denying that, but I don't want them to only be around people like that.
And so I just never wanted to send them anywhere else but the public schools.
I joke, the public schools don't need diversity and inclusion programs.
They are diverse.
So the private schools have all these silly initiatives.
And my kids, my older boys, they did really well in the public schools in San Francisco.
I was proud to send them there.
My oldest went to a public university.
He went to Berkeley.
It's a great school.
It's one of the top universities in the country.
I believe in the public school system.
I don't think I'm above it.
Do you think the leaders of these policies and ideas, do you think their kids are going to public schools, or do you think their kids are going to private schools, or do they not have kids?
Well, a lot of them don't have kids.
I mean, I think that is part of the problem in San Francisco, is a lot of these, the folks...
Most of the folks on the San Francisco Board of Education at the time...
They didn't have kids.
They didn't have kids.
Not all of them, but three of them got recalled.
It's worth noting that by the spring of 21, even the mayor of San Francisco, she sued the school district to open the schools.
It wasn't that crazy what I was saying.
The mayor was on my side, but that didn't matter.
But because some people complained that you're being too extreme.
That I was a racist for wanting the schools to open.
Now, the recall went through.
Yeah, and I worked with the people that started that.
So what it says is majority of San Franciscans wanted this.
Yes, it's a great point and I often tell this story.
So I attended school board meetings regularly, virtually, during the school closures and I would log on and they would go nine or ten hours and they would never talk about getting the schools open.
They would talk about everything from renaming You know, Feinstein Elementary and Lincoln High School to whether or not a gay dad should be permitted to be a parent representative on the school board.
And it was decided, no, he wasn't diverse enough.
I mean, they just went on and on about all sorts of nonsense.
So a parent in San Francisco initiated this recall effort and the school board was recalled decisively.
I believe it was February 15th, 2022.
Three members that were eligible for recall.
It was like 70-75% of the voters that showed up recalled them.
That's pretty resounding, and I think you make a really good point, which is a lot of people agreed with me, but they were too afraid to say it.
But they showed up at the ballot box and voted those people out.
You left the city, but do you think the ones that stayed, they're kind of stuck, and they're kind of under this fear of showing what they think and what they do?
I think that is part of it.
I think also there is a...
You know, I've never been a member of the Republican Party, so I'll leave that off to the table.
I think for people of the left, there is a blind belief that even if the party makes mistakes, they're doing it for all the right reasons.
It's like there's...
It's like a...
I feel like it's like a cult or some sort of religious sect.
And so...
They just are forgiving.
Okay, maybe these policies were really destructive.
Okay, maybe the school closures were totally unnecessary.
But they all meant well, and I don't feel that way.
I don't feel like anyone meant well, and I don't want anything to do with that party ever again.
So I think they stay because they still believe in the good intentions.
Now, is there a way for San Francisco to get back to what it was?
And if there is, can you tell us what ideas you have?
You're an executive, you work in big companies.
Sometimes people that work in big companies, they're more sophisticated than the government leaders.
That's true.
I mean, I'm not a public policy person, but I think a good start point would be to listen to all the citizens of San Francisco, not just the loudest and most vocal minority.
I think listen to people.
If people don't feel safe on the streets and they are expressing this, don't call them names and say that makes them a racist.
If they don't feel safe on the streets, listen.
People are talking about the property crime, which has skyrocketed.
In addition to having to call 911 because I thought there were people dead on the street in my last few months there, my car was broken into five times in two months.
Wow.
I mean, is it the worst thing in the world?
I guess not, but that is...
I've lived in Denver now two and a half years.
I've never had my car broken into.
It's just not a tenable way to live, to have to spend $500 to get your back windshield fixed every other month.
That's not acceptable.
No one wants to live like that.
But rather than listen to people and actually kind of Embrace the broad range of views and experiences and try to make it better.
Anyone who expresses concerns or complaints about the current situation is called a racist.
So I think they have to start by listening to citizens and actually looking at the facts and the data.
What about San Francisco residents that love the city a lot and they want to stay?
What can they do?
And they don't want it to become this rich and poor.
What can they do?
I think they have to stand up and not be afraid of being called names because I think common sense people are in the majority.
They have to stand up and say what they think.
They have to say the crime on the streets is unacceptable.
They have to say, can we please get back to basic education in our schools?
Our children aren't learning to read and write and you're arguing about Admissions policies to Lowell, an academic magnet school.
You're arguing about, you know, they just initiated a policy, it was a year or two ago, that there could be no algebra in eighth grade because it was racist.
So for kids that were advanced in math, they were not permitted to pursue their interest because it was inequitable.
Well, guess what happened?
Everybody's math scores came down.
It didn't increase.
So if you are opposed to that policy, you have to say something and not just cower and be afraid of being called a racist.
It's destroying the public schools to not give kids this kind of opportunity.
So I think people just need to speak up.
It seems, from what I gather, San Francisco is leading the liberal movement across the nation.
And it seems like it's not working, what's happening there.
Is there an advice you give the liberals across the nation?
Well, they're not liberal.
They're the most illiberal people on the planet.
They don't allow any debate and dissent.
They don't believe in free speech.
They don't believe in inclusiveness.
They believe in Polarizing politics and name-calling and exclusion.
So my advice to the far left wing of the Democratic Party is to get back to actual liberal policies that are fundamental and foundational in this country.
But they're not interested in it.
They're interested in, like I said, this sort of polarizing politics of oppression and who ranks highest on that scale.
What about the average liberals that are kind of quiet or following them?
They need to start talking because I think they see the craziness and the madness.
School board recall is such a good example and I use it all the time.
If 70-75% of people voted to recall these folks, they agreed with me that the school closures were harmful.
That's why they got recalled, the school board.
Because they refused to open the schools.
And not only did they not open them, all they did was navel gaze and debate stupid, pointless policies that would not enable our children to get an education.
Those people, the 75% that voted to recall, they need to stand up.
They need to say what they think, not just at the ballot box, but in the way they engage with their fellow citizens in San Francisco.
Jennifer Say, former Levi Executive and San Francisco resident.
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