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April 16, 2021 - Epoch Times
44:20
What’s Behind the Attack on The Epoch Times in Hong Kong?—Guo Jun | American Thought Leaders
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Time Text
In the early hours of April 12th, four intruders wielding sledgehammers and other weapons barged into the printing plant of the Hong Kong Epoch Times.
They smashed printing equipment and tossed construction debris onto the machines.
This system relies on clean surfaces to operate smoothly.
This was not the first time the Hong Kong printing plant was attacked.
In fact, it's the fifth.
Back in November 2019, four individuals firebombed the plant, resulting in more than US $40,000 in damages.
Today I sit down with Guo Jun, one of the original co-founders of the Epoch Times and head of the Hong Kong Edition.
This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek.
Guo Jun, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.
Thank you.
I've been looking forward to being on your show.
The print shop in Hong Kong was attacked recently.
Tell me what happened.
In the early morning of April 12, Hong Kong time, the printing press of Hong Kong Epoch Times was attacked by four thugs hired by the CCP.
Four thugs barged into the facility and they smashed the control boards of their printing machine.
They also robbed the CPU of all other computers.
And they also wielded sledgehammers to damage the equipment.
So we were very shocked at that time.
The entire incident lasted for about two minutes.
The police then arrived, and very promptly, they defined this as a serious case.
The case is passed to the Hong Kong Crime Squad for investigation.
And we saw them in the video, the closed caption video, that they're spreading some kind of debris throughout the place.
What was that?
Yes.
So one of the thugs first held the iron gate open, and the others then rushed in.
They brought hammers and a black trash bag with construction debris in it, which they then spread over the machines.
Their actions were outrageous.
I think their purpose was to leave our printing machines completely paralyzed.
They wanted to do something like this to stop all our printing equipment from functioning.
And this isn't actually the first time that something like this has happened, right?
Yes, it is actually the fifth time that Hong Kong Epoch Times printing press was attacked.
There were four previous incidents.
I remember that last year when I was in Hong Kong, because of work, I spent...
My year partially in Hong Kong and partially in the US. It happened to be in 2019 during the anti-extradition bill protests in Hong Kong.
I remember it was November 18.
Similarly, a group of thugs hired by the CCP. They were wearing black clothes.
They broke into the printing press and set fire.
Fortunately, while the flames were quite intense, our staff put out the fire in a timely manner, and so no big losses were caused in that incident.
At that time, I was in Hong Kong covering the anti-extradition bill protests, and I myself experienced that attack.
That was last year's incident.
There were three other times that our printing press in Hong Kong was attacked.
I remember that it was in 2006 when our printing press was first established.
Several thugs broke in and smashed the machines that we had just bought.
Later in October and in December in 2012, there were other two times when they tried to break in, but failed because we called the police.
In 2013, there was another incident.
The thugs smashed glasses at the gate.
They tried to barge in, but were stopped.
So such violent attacks happened five times in total, and each time we reported it to the police.
But so far, not one case has been resolved.
The police have never found the perpetrators.
How is it that we're so sure that the Chinese Communist Party is involved, that these people are connected with the Chinese Communist Party?
We're highly confident that these thugs were hired by the CCP to violently attack the Epoch Times, because it happened so many times before.
And throughout our 20 years of publishing in Hong Kong, we were constantly suppressed by the CCP. Our staff members were followed, our advertisers were threatened, and business partners who worked with us.
The offices they rent were also pressured by the CCP. They wanted to prevent them from doing business with us.
And our staff members, their relatives in mainland China, were also intimidated.
So over all these years, the CCP has never stopped suppressing the Epoch Times in Hong Kong.
And in Hong Kong, we, the Epoch Times, don't have any enemies who are hostile to us because we don't owe any debts and we never had any business conflicts with groups or individuals.
But we in Hong Kong are always suppressed by the CCP, and we are very sure that this incident is done by the CCP too.
And in fact, it's not just us.
You see that after the news came out about the attack, there were so many comments.
A lot of people, they told us that, oh, you don't have to tell me.
We know that it's the CCP who's behind it.
A lot of Hong Kongers said so.
Well, so this is actually also very interesting.
And what do you expect will happen with the police?
Why have the police not found, I guess, any perpetrators in the past?
And why is it?
But what do you expect will happen now?
We don't have a lot of expectations for the police to solve this case, because in the few recent incidents, the police never gave us a conclusion.
In Hong Kong, as we all know, the Hong Kong police force is no longer independent.
To a large extent, we are very disappointed in them.
After so many incidents have happened, we are very disappointed.
After this incident, After the thugs broke into our printing press this time, they left a note on the floor that said, any debts have to be paid for.
And after the police arrived at the scene, our staff members told them that the printing press does not owe any debts.
We don't have such relationships with anyone, and the police know that.
So the police told us that they categorized this as a serious crime, and they handed it to the team that specifically tackled gangs.
But we have seen some media reports saying that the incident was a result of us owing deaths.
So we called those media outlets asking them why they said so.
And they said, oh, the information came from the police.
So after we clarified the situation, those media outlets, they took down such descriptions.
So we were very intrigued because the police did not inform us beforehand and they didn't Asked us.
And it didn't tell us that there's any debt problems or they have received any complaints.
However, they passed such information to the media outlets, which we couldn't understand.
So we don't have high hopes for the police to justly solve the case.
Because as seen from the past incidents, under the pressure from the CCP, the Hong Kong police, it's very hard for them to enforce the law justly.
So why do you think this happened now?
Why are these attacks happening at this time?
We see that in the current Hong Kong, freedoms are being increasingly limited.
We all know that Hong Kong has arrested 47 pro-democracy activists.
And right now, you see that on April 1, Hong Kong announced that there are seven pro-democracy leaders who were convicted over 2019 protests.
And very soon, these pro-democracy leaders will be sentenced.
their sentencing will be announced.
So right now, the entire environment in Hong Kong, its freedoms, are being eliminated by the CCP.
And the one country, two systems framework are literally being non-existent.
So many media In such a difficult situation, a lot of media outlets, they choose to self-censor.
They would filter news themselves.
A lot of media outlets are doing this.
And the Hong Kong government has been always suppressing government-sponsored outlets such as RTHK. So there are fewer and fewer media outlets in Hong Kong that can speak out, including Apple Daily.
Even its boss, Jimmy Lai, he was also indicted and he's facing a sentence.
So in such an environment, the Epoch Times has always persevered in reporting the truth.
We can say that we are the only outlet in Hong Kong who will not make up any news about China.
We don't filter or censor any news.
And that's why the Hong Kong Epoch Times has always been the outlet who refuses to be intimidated by the CCP. And we don't filter any news, nor do we self-censor.
But a lot of media outlets in Hong Kong are doing this.
And I think the reason why the CCP is doing this right now is that, like other media outlets, they can exert their control, they can cancel their shows, They can intimidate them.
When other media outlets will start to self-censor, they will gradually lessen their report on the truth.
But the Epoch Times has never changed.
So I think the CCP wants to intimidate our staff members, wants to intimidate the Epoch Times to make us give up ourselves.
And I think that is the purpose why they did it right now at this point.
Are you concerned there may be more harsh kind of responses from the government in the future?
I'm very worried.
The current Hong Kong government is very different from the past.
The situation in Hong Kong is deteriorating badly.
I'm very concerned about the situation of Hong Kong Epoch Times.
In fact, our staff members...
They've been constantly intimidated.
Their relatives in China have been intimidated.
And in our printing press, you see now there was a violent attack.
Just a few days before this attack, actually, there were people in front of our printing press that were following our people and watching us.
And such behavior of following our staff members has been going on for several months, ever since last November.
And I couldn't help but notice, and we actually referenced this in some of our reports in English, that this is just a few days before actually Jimmy Lai's sentencing is supposed to happen and some other pro-democracy activists.
On April 16th, which is right before the sentencing for Jimmy Lai is going to come out and also for Martin Li, he's the founder of the Hong Kong Democratic Party.
He's a prominent lawyer.
He was also a member of the Hong Kong Basic Law Drafting Committee and also a few former legislators in the Hong Kong Democratic Party, including The disqualified legislator, Leong Got Hung, whose nickname was Long Hair.
The sentencing for them will all come out on April 16th.
So this is catching a lot of international attention.
We are now hurrying up to repair our equipment.
And we have decided to relaunch our publishing on April 16th.
So these few days, we are repairing our equipment and consolidating our security.
We hope that at such a moment, when big events are happening, we can continue to report to the world uncensored truth about Hong Kong.
So I want to know a little bit more about you.
You founded the Chinese Epoch Times over 20 years ago now.
You work with the media globally, but you also work with specifically the Hong Kong edition, I think since 2013.
So tell me a little bit about that relationship.
How does that work?
You're here in the U.S. now.
In 2013, I went to Hong Kong to help with the Epoch Times there with their business.
But once I got there, there was just so much work because events just happened one after another.
Very soon after I arrived, the Occupy Central movement happened.
And it made headlines around the world.
And afterward, a lot of news kept breaking in Hong Kong.
And of course, the one that got the most international attention was the anti-extradition bill movement in 2019.
And because Hong Kong is located right next to mainland China, there's a lot of China-related news to cover there.
So I would stay in Hong Kong for the most part of the year to work for the Hong Kong Epoch Times.
And every time when I went back to Hong Kong, It would leave me with very strong feelings.
I could feel the courage of the Hong Kong people in their fight for freedoms, for their freedom of speech, and for the one country, two systems framework.
Their fighting spirit has persevered, and their will to defend the one country, two systems framework, and to defend their rights.
These protests and movements have continued to this day.
And now we see that Hong Kongers are fleeing to different parts of the world.
I feel it deeply because I've been to Hong Kong for all these years.
Every time when I return to the US and go back to Hong Kong, the stark contrast always leaves me with a strong impression.
And in Hong Kong, we have grown our newspaper and launched a bunch of video programs to report on what's really going on in Hong Kong.
We reported to Hong Kongers and to the world.
We also have the English Language Epoch Times in Hong Kong.
The Hong Kong Epoch Times has gained more and more recognition and attention, especially recently in the anti-extradition protests, because we produced large amounts of video content showing the world what was happening in Hong Kong.
And yesterday, there was a report written by the Los Angeles edition of the Apoch Times.
I was deeply moved by it.
There was a family that was very active in the anti-tradition protests.
That man, whose name was Mr.
Li, he had fled with his wife and three children to Mexico.
When we interviewed them, they were all weeping on the phone.
They were extremely pained because Mr.
Li did not want to leave Hong Kong.
They had a home that they had just renovated, and they really wanted to stay in Hong Kong.
But the CCP is punishing these pro-democracy activists.
Several of these pro-democracy leaders will likely be sentenced soon, and they're scared that the CCP will continue to punish more people, so they had to flee.
So right now in Hong Kong, families like this are so common.
In Hong Kong's airports, you see so many families like theirs running away.
They're trying to make a life for themselves somewhere else.
So this attack on the Epoch Times in Hong Kong is very reflective of what's happening across the entire Hong Kong society.
It's very difficult for a lot of people, certainly a lot of people in the United States and in Canada, my home country, to conceive of how the CCP actually operates and the depths that it can stoop to, to function.
It's hard for many, many people to imagine.
But actually, let's talk about the actual beginnings of the Epoch Times in America, in Atlanta, Georgia, and how that happened, and what, I guess, really the origins and how you came to be involved.
Tell me about that.
Our initial purpose of founding the Epoch Times was one belief, which is we felt that...
In China, the real news, the truth is not being reported and the people don't know the truth.
And that's why we wanted to establish an independent newspaper outside of China so that we can bring the truth of China to the entire world and also convey international voices to the Chinese people.
Because at that time, what had just happened was the self-immolation hoax that CCP staged against Falun Gong practitioners.
We also obtained a lot of evidence of how the CCP had staged the entire event.
However, information like this was not reported, you know, not even just among the Chinese media outlets, but even among English-language media outlets, it wasn't reported.
Because the CCP was exerting a lot of pressure on these media.
Therefore, our newspaper at that time was able to report the truth about this event to the world.
Later, there were many incidents.
It was shocking to the world when the SARS virus broke out, and the CCP covered it up the entire time.
It was the Hong Kong Epoch Times that first broke the story.
We reported the outbreak to the world.
We were very proud that, when faced with a big event like this, we had our websites globally with the Epoch Times.
Such that we could expose this information to the world quickly.
This was the main purpose for us in founding the Epoch Times, and in these past 20 years, we have always done it like this.
When we first started the Epoch Times, it was very challenging, very difficult.
We lacked funding, resources all around.
So we burned the midnight oil, relied a lot on volunteers to support us at that time.
Especially the Hong Kong Epoch Times, it was also like this.
When we first started the Hong Kong Epoch Times, we also lacked manpower, lacked resources.
But our team, under these challenging circumstances, worked really hard and we had volunteers supporting us as well.
That's how we started.
In May 2019, the Hong Kong Epoch Times, we started selling our newspapers at 7-Elevens across Hong Kong.
At that time, there were about 500 7-Eleven branches in Hong Kong that could sell our paper.
And the people were very happy that it was now very convenient to purchase the Epoch Times.
But unfortunately, the Chinese regime very quickly Put pressure on the 7-Elevens.
So 7-Elevens unilaterally backed out of the contract and took the Epoch Times off its shelves.
So throughout all these years, we have always faced the Chinese Communist Party's persecution, let it be financial suppression or others.
But despite these difficult circumstances we have come to today, And we are very proud that the Epoch Times has received very genuine support and well wishes from the Hong Kong people.
A lot of people have supported us, especially after this recent attack.
A lot of folks spoke out in support of us, hoping that we are able to persevere.
And they are very concerned about the safety of our staff members.
Well, and I just want to highlight for the benefits of our audiences, when Epoch Times began, it was in this context of this incredible hate propaganda campaign by the Chinese Communist Party against the spiritual discipline of Falun Gong and its practitioners, with a goal to basically, in the words of Jiang Zemin, to eradicate the group.
So on top of all the types of pressure that you were describing, there was this ever-present pressure where the people that were doing the reporting were seen as somehow problematic or basically are being demonized themselves.
When we launched the Epoch Times, our first group of reporters in China were pretty much all arrested.
The earliest ones, they were all arrested.
A lot of them were graduates from Tsinghua and other prestigious universities in China.
There were people with master's or doctorate degrees.
They were tortured for a long time in prisons in China.
And these were some of our first reporters after the founding of the Epoch Times.
We also have a lot of reporters globally whose family members continue to be harassed and threatened in China.
And our advertisement clients, they also continue to be threatened.
In Hong Kong, I remember that there was once a small advertisement client.
He received threatened letters in four different languages.
Four languages.
Some of these clients are Korean or from other countries in Hong Kong, so the Chinese regime used different languages to threaten and harass them to make phone calls.
I remember when I went to Hong Kong for work, as soon as I got there, I received an intimidation letter demanding that I immediately leave Hong Kong.
They said they would surveil my every move and even follow me.
Or do other things intimidate me?
So since the founding of the Epoch Times, we've continued to face the persecution of the Chinese regime and its attempts to financially suppress us.
So weren't you afraid?
What's motivating you here to keep going in this kind of a climate?
After the recent attack on the Hong Kong printing press, the Hong Kong Epoch Times made a public statement saying, "We condemn the violence, but we will definitely not back down." Because freedom of speech to a people, to a society, is essential.
Without freedom of speech, humans do not have the very basic right to free choice.
And in China, there's an old saying that goes, which means a tyrannical government is fiercer than a tiger.
The Mr.
Li that I mentioned earlier, he really loves Hong Kong, but he brought his young children.
His youngest is only five years old, I think.
He took them away from his homeland to Mexico to enter the United States.
There are many families like this in Hong Kong.
And you know, Hong Kongers are relatively financially prosperous, but they don't have freedom, they don't have freedom of speech.
Especially their children and grandchildren have to undergo the CCP's so-called patriotic education, textbooks written with lies to poison the next generation.
When people are facing such a situation where they don't have freedoms, don't have free will, people choose to flee and leave from their homeland.
And for us, humans must have basic dignity, basic freedoms of expression.
This is a fundamental safeguard of human society, and that's our ideal.
And that's what motivates us to this day.
There's no turning back for us, because this is so essential.
If we give up even this, then we won't have basic dignity.
This is what drives us to do what we are doing.
And although it's been a difficult, trying and scary road, we have to persevere.
We have no other choice.
So these assaults on freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of thought that the CCP is perpetrating, of course, on China and on Hong Kong, they're actually going quite a bit beyond that, in fact.
I have seen this.
This is also why we have stood our ground in Hong Kong, why we feel we have to do our job well to report the truth.
Because the Chinese regime's biggest lie is saying that China's economy is doing better.
It's changing.
So if we have economic ties with them, China will become better.
But in reality, it is not like that.
Hong Kong's financial sector is highly developed.
Hong Kong, for the past 23 years, has been rated number one globally in economic freedom.
But in this place with the most economic freedom in the world, it's still facing restrictions on freedom of speech and the media, and there's self-censorship and lies being covered up.
The Chinese regime's Thousand Talents Plan, a large part of it is being pushed forward in Hong Kong.
The Chinese regime steals technology through Hong Kong.
It takes advantage of Hong Kong's status as a financial and economic center, and it uses companies owned by Hong Kongers to steal technology from the companies that work with them through the Thousand Talents Plan.
So it uses Hong Kong to attract investments, and it engages in forced technology transfer.
The international community did not put sanctions on Hong Kong before, so the Chinese regime took advantage of Hong Kong to steal technology.
A lot of this is happening in Hong Kong, and that's why we feel we have to do our work well in Hong Kong, because we can get access to a lot of important information in Hong Kong.
But even though Hong Kong had such a free economy, The Chinese Communist Party is still able to be extremely restrictive on speech and freedoms and control the people.
In reality, what the Chinese regime has done in Hong Kong, the psychological control and persecution, it is doing the same and infiltrating the U.S. and other countries as well.
Its tactics are to lie and to use financial incentives to get major financial groups to partner with it.
And these big financial groups and companies control the media and important institutions.
So financial incentives make people lose their conscience to self-censor and to even restrict other people's free speech because this is what the CCP wants.
What is happening now to the US, to Canada, and the rest of the world is what the CCP did to Hong Kong starting in 1997.
You can be very financially free and relatively prosperous.
But fundamentally, you have to operate within the rules of the Chinese regime.
So your freedoms are restricted.
You have to give up freedom of speech.
You have to attack the other group of people so that they can't speak up.
If people speak up, the other people will not do business with them, will fear doing business with them, and will censor the ability to speak.
These are the things that have all happened in Hong Kong in recent years.
So Hong Kong is a perfect model or window into how the Chinese regime, step by step, turned Hong Kong from a really prosperous, A free place, a financial center, and a center for information, for fashion, jewelry, and ad design.
Such a leader globally, such a vibrant and energetic city.
But step by step, through lies and incitement, the Chinese regime turned Hong Kong into a society where people fear speaking freely.
Now people don't dare to speak up.
At the same time, today in Hong Kong, even the Oscars can't be aired in Hong Kong because movies have to be reviewed even the Oscars can't be aired in Hong Kong because movies have to be reviewed by the Chinese regime before they can be - Yes. - Just one step.
So through this, you see how the Chinese regime step by step turned Hong Kong into this.
They've succeeded.
And I think that it's doing the same now in Western countries.
Hollywood, some big tech companies, Wall Street, they need to do business with China.
So they told the Chinese Communist Party line when it comes to topics the Chinese Communist Party does not like.
This is also happening internationally in other countries.
And that's why we feel that it's so important to have an independent media that reports on the truth.
The scope of the truth is very broad.
They're not just censoring one news item or two news items.
It's the entire system, the entire way the Chinese regime operates.
Imperceptibly, things change around you, and you realize the world is different.
People are fighting in their homes and don't dare to say what they really feel, because they fear being attacked or being discriminated.
So these imperceptible changes, you may think it's hard to conceive of living in a free country, but who's behind all of this, controlling all of this?
Who's using financial incentives in China's market as bargaining chips to change the entire world?
We know it's the Chinese Communist Party.
And it's done so very successfully in Hong Kong.
Only the Epoch Times does not censor any reporting on China.
We don't censor any things that happened in China.
And this is showing the entire world the tragedy that is happening now in Hong Kong.
It also shows the world how deceitful the CCP is, how it's always changing.
It's revealed the truth about the Chinese regime.
This is so valuable.
This is not just an issue of China and Hong Kong.
It's also happening in the U.S., happening around the world, right next to us.
We are facing the same situation.
So that's why we feel that the Epoch Times work reporting the truth of what's going on in Hong Kong and China is extremely valuable to the entire world, even though it's been very difficult.
Even though we have to sacrifice a lot, we have stood by this mission for the past 20 years.
These are our ideals and our sense of responsibility that we should do what little we can.
These are our founding principles.
Quite a number of people have reached out to me, seeing what's happening in Hong Kong, and saying, you should move your operation to Taiwan.
Much safer there.
We've also received a lot of these prophecies.
If there's one day We also received a lot of these messages.
If it really comes to that point one day, I feel it would be a tragedy not just for Hong Kong people and Chinese people, but a tragedy for the world.
So we hope to stop this downward trend while we still can.
Hong Kong is an international center.
It has very close relationships with a lot of places, and it is a beacon of freedom.
I think righteous nations around the world should keep a close eye on Hong Kong's situation and protect it.
We should all pay attention to Hong Kong, because losing Hong Kong means losing a major fight in combating the Chinese Communist Party in the free world.
A popular nickname for Hong Kong is base to counter the CCP, actually.
Starting with Sun Yat-sen until now, China has been known by a lot of people as a base to counter the CCP. So the Chinese regime also sees this.
Its strategy this time around is to take Hong Kong but not its people.
It wants to keep Hong Kong but not its people.
Through intimidation, threats, it's effectively kicking out all of the original Hong Kongers.
So we describe it as taking Hong Kong by not taking people.
A lot of people have been forced to leave, but the Epoch Times has stood its ground.
We don't want to see a time when we can no longer survive in Hong Kong.
And that, I think, is a shared responsibility that the entire world has.
Well, so this is actually my next question.
Exactly.
You know, this is a...
Frankly, it's a very dark picture, what the CCP has done in Hong Kong and all sorts of other places, Xinjiang and so forth.
Do you see any hope here?
I have seen hope.
I have seen hope.
I've seen internationally in the U.S., whether it's the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, they are largely aligned when it comes to the CCP. Even in Europe, in Southeast Asia, Japan, India, and the entire international community, I see that people feel a strong disdain towards the Chinese regime and have firmly condemned the CCP. This sentiment is growing.
And I think that as a result of what's happened in Hong Kong and elsewhere, through a series of events that happened recently, people around the world are more and more clear-eyed about the CCP. So I believe that more and more countries will awaken to the realities of the CCP. They will stand together and unite to stop the CCP from infiltrating and supporting other countries.
So, you know, we've received a lot of really supportive commentary from lawmakers from across the world, from press freedom organizations, from, you know, think tanks, all sorts, and a ton of folks that are unaffiliated, that just, you know, value freedom of speech and are very concerned.
I just wanted to know if there's anything you'd like to say to them on camera.
First, I'm very grateful for the overwhelming responses we have received from the international community after this attack on the Hong Kong printing press in terms of words of support and condemnation of the Chinese Communist Party for what occurred.
And we are very grateful for these righteous words.
If more people, more countries would stand up and take action against the Chinese Communist Party's aggression, That would be great news for Hong Kong.
And I don't think words are useless.
They're actually very effective.
As we all see, in this incident, when the thugs came to damage the press, What they did was that they threw paper on the ground saying that we owed money.
Or last time, they dressed like young pro-democracy protesters to frame them when they set the place on fire.
This time, they wanted to hide their motives and make it seem like we had dead, and that was why the incident happened.
So in all this, we can see their fear because they do not dare to openly do things like this.
They're still trying to cover it up and intimidate us.
Their goal is to compel the Hong Kong Epoch Times and its staffers To give up of their own volition because of fear.
The Chinese Communist Party sees this as the most efficient way of achieving its goals.
And this shows that they're still extremely fearful of the international community condemning what the CCP is doing and uniting against it.
So I think if more countries and more people could stand up to the CCP, it would be very helpful to preserving basic freedoms of speech and press in Hong Kong.
If Hong Kong can preserve its freedom of speech and its freedom of press, that will be very beneficial to Hong Kong and it will be also great news to the Chinese people.
So Gujun, as we finish up, tell me, what are your hopes for Hong Kong and for China for that matter?
I do have one hope.
We know that during the anti-extradition bill protests in 2019, in almost every single street in Hong Kong, you would always see one sign.
And the sign reads, Heaven will destroy the CCP. Hong Kong people put such posters up on bulletin boards, public walls and inside pedestrian tunnels.
They put them up everywhere.
This is because the existence of the CCP causes lies, violence and intimidation to be spread to wherever it goes.
And many Hong Kong people, including the police and many government officials, they're actually very kind people.
They were pressured by the CCP. They're innocent themselves.
However, the CCP's evil system of thoughts, its corrupt ideologies, and its practices against humanity, they plate the surroundings with lies and violence wherever the CCP rules.
So in order to solve the problems of Hong Kong and of China, the most important line, which I very much agree with, is that heaven destroys the CCP. If people around the world can all awaken to the evil nature of the CCP, if they condemn it and distance themselves from it, When the true nature of the CCP is exposed in the entire world, I think that is when it's going to happen.
That is when heaven destroys the CCP. At that time, to Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, and to the entire world, it will truly be a blessing for all of them.
That is my hope, and I think that's the hope of Hong Kong people as well.
Well, Guo Jun, it's such a pleasure to have you on.
Thank you.
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