The Tim Dillon Show - 324 - Gary Vaynerchuk
Aired: 2022-11-20
Duration: 01:05:07


=== Exaggerated Personalities and Blockchain (14:49) ===

[00:00:00]  Gary Vanyerchak, thank you so much for being here.
[00:00:03]  Thank you for having a sense of humor.
[00:00:05]  I appreciate it.
[00:00:06]  I was just giving this water.
[00:00:07]  I imagine this would be the last thing I drink.
[00:00:11]  This might be the end.
[00:00:12]  But it's okay.
[00:00:13]  I die in a room with toys.
[00:00:16]  Thank you for laughing.
[00:00:18]  And like, why don't you get mad when people make fun of you?
[00:00:21]  Other people get very viciously angry, but you kind of have fun with it.
[00:00:27]  Because you're this big character.
[00:00:28]  You say a lot of stuff.
[00:00:30]  I do.
[00:00:30]  Some of it's very funny.
[00:00:31]  Thank you.
[00:00:32]  And then, you know, some people, because as a comedian, our job is to, we make fun of ourselves.
[00:00:38]  Correct.
[00:00:38]  We make fun of everyone.
[00:00:40]  We make fun of other comedians.
[00:00:42]  Joe Rogan's one of my best friends.
[00:00:43]  We make fun of him.
[00:00:44]  We do a dumb imitation of him that doesn't sound like him.
[00:00:47]  It's a high-pitched voice.
[00:00:48]  What do you mean, man?
[00:00:49]  It's such a stupid, but he never gets mad.
[00:00:52]  And you don't seem to really get upset.
[00:00:56]  I think, first of all, to be very frank, I'm flattered that I'm flattered that like, that like I'm even known enough that somebody would make jokes.
[00:01:06]  I think growing up in Jersey in the 80s and 90s is probably a big part of it.
[00:01:12]  I mean, I don't even recall living a life where the majority of your friends are not making fun of you 24-7, 365 in that East Coast 80s, 90s life.
[00:01:24]  I also love comedy.
[00:01:26]  Like I genuinely view it as flattering, interesting.
[00:01:32]  You know, I sometimes even learn from it.
[00:01:34]  You're like, oh, it's interesting.
[00:01:36]  Like people are, that's what they're picking up on or like they're exaggerating that.
[00:01:40]  And especially to your point, when you're a big personality and you're exaggerated, when somebody then takes the exaggerated part of you already being exaggerated, it tends to be really funny.
[00:01:51]  Plus, I've always thought that comedians were incredibly smart.
[00:01:56]  Like I just always grew up very much believing that.
[00:02:01]  Like Richard Pryor was a big factor.
[00:02:03]  I actually think my keynote career is very wrestling promo, stand-up comic DNA to begin with.
[00:02:11]  So I think there's a level of, and honestly, to be even like really to the point, anybody who can't laugh at themselves is fucked.
[00:02:20]  Yeah.
[00:02:20]  Like genuinely actually fucked.
[00:02:22]  It means they're deeply insecure and like unhappy.
[00:02:25]  And luckily the DNA draw did not give me that.
[00:02:27]  And so I'm cool with it.
[00:02:29]  No, and we as comedians, it's always cool when somebody doesn't have you killed or you have a good amount of money and you have connections.
[00:02:37]  That's right.
[00:02:38]  You know what I mean?
[00:02:38]  Like doesn't have a car.
[00:02:41]  Explode.
[00:02:42]  That's nice.
[00:02:43]  There's nothing wrong.
[00:02:44]  You know, we love that.
[00:02:45]  Elon Musk buying Twitter.
[00:02:47]  Big mistake?
[00:02:49]  Probably not.
[00:02:50]  You know, it's one of the most important platforms in the world.
[00:02:55]  And, you know, very quickly, I think he wants to turn it into something viable.
[00:03:01]  The product, you know, I've been on it for a long time.
[00:03:03]  I was there super early.
[00:03:05]  And I mean, from 2007 to today, it hasn't really evolved a whole lot.
[00:03:10]  You know, obviously the guy has innovated his whole career.
[00:03:13]  And so, you know, my spidey senses say that he'll find pager.
[00:03:18]  I've always thought that Twitter could be a major, you know, challenger to Netflix and Amazon Prime.
[00:03:26]  Like the world goes there when things are going on.
[00:03:29]  I've always thought that it was a platform that could have a subscription business.
[00:03:33]  He showed that immediately.
[00:03:34]  He's probably figuring out what the blue check thing means now.
[00:03:37]  But like I've always thought of it as an OTT competitor over the top, like a streaming service.
[00:03:42]  Yeah.
[00:03:42]  I just always thought there was much more that could be done with Twitter.
[00:03:46]  And so I don't think he'll lose on this one.
[00:03:49]  Do you think there's an issue with him being such a big personality?
[00:03:52]  Is there a chance he gets in his own way a little bit?
[00:03:55]  Because he seems to like the spotlight.
[00:03:57]  He seems to crave the spotlight.
[00:04:00]  And when you're running a company like that, is that a potential negative?
[00:04:06]  I think if you're not operationally capable and you're just sizzle and not stake, it can be a negative.
[00:04:13]  Right.
[00:04:14]  The guys run and built real companies.
[00:04:16]  Right.
[00:04:17]  So I think less likely.
[00:04:20]  Okay.
[00:04:20]  You know, there's a lot of people who are just sizzle.
[00:04:23]  And they just, you know, let's bring it back to comedy.
[00:04:26]  Yeah.
[00:04:26]  You and your buddies know there's people you've come up the game with that actually potentially were funnier, had more raw talent, right?
[00:04:37]  For sure.
[00:04:37]  But you knew that they weren't willing to put in the work, whether they didn't write or they didn't, they didn't put in the fucking work.
[00:04:42]  Yeah.
[00:04:43]  Right.
[00:04:43]  They didn't do enough mics.
[00:04:45]  They didn't write enough.
[00:04:46]  Whatever, you know, you know this world better than I do, but I'm dangerous enough to keep an eye from afar.
[00:04:51]  And they haven't won.
[00:04:53]  And I think that's similar to the way I think about entrepreneurship.
[00:04:56]  Like if you can't actually operate, if you don't put in the work, if you're not that person, the sizzle, what you're referring to, will fuck it up.
[00:05:06]  You'll get found out.
[00:05:07]  Everyone gets exposed in the end.
[00:05:09]  Right.
[00:05:10]  Now, I'm still a believer in FTX.
[00:05:14]  I am.
[00:05:14]  And Sam Bankman-Fried, I think, is a genius.
[00:05:17]  I'm undeterred by the new spade of news.
[00:05:20]  And I just want a commitment from you that you're still a believer because so many people are jumping shit now.
[00:05:26]  Whereas I say to myself, like, isn't this time to really show him our support?
[00:05:31]  Like, let him know that like what he's doing is good.
[00:05:35]  Like he's giving Bill Clinton money.
[00:05:37]  And like, these are people that need money, right?
[00:05:39]  The Democrats.
[00:05:40]  So it's just a good, I think it's a good thing what he's done.
[00:05:44]  How do we help him?
[00:05:45]  That's my question.
[00:05:46]  Like, how could we help him?
[00:05:48]  Do we get him to Dubai?
[00:05:49]  Do we get him on a jet?
[00:05:52]  What does this say about the larger crypto thing?
[00:05:54]  Is it over?
[00:05:55]  No, because I mean, you know, nobody I know that actually is educated in crypto kept their money in an exchange because that's not decentralized.
[00:06:02]  But what about Giselle Bunchen?
[00:06:04]  Well, that's not someone who I would deem as somebody who's deep crypto, right?
[00:06:08]  You know, and I think, I think some of these step backwards during this era are going to be similar to when Pets.com and all that stuff happened in the internet back in 2001.
[00:06:17]  Like people were just confused and they get hyped and over excited about dumb shit.
[00:06:22]  You know, look, fraud is hard to see at times, but, you know, centralized, you know, exchanges are a dangerous game.
[00:06:32]  You're keeping your money in unregulated industries platform that Sam was able to do the things that one would fear in that scenario.
[00:06:42]  And so I think crypto is such a big technology, but unfortunately greed and short-term thinking and all that always clouds new technologies.
[00:06:53]  It's always the same shit.
[00:06:54]  Yeah.
[00:06:54]  It seems to be that he was able to win over so many fans, right?
[00:07:00]  Money does that.
[00:07:01]  Who's called a visionary?
[00:07:03]  Is it dangerous when you have somebody, when you have a situation where it's the crypto in general is not really that well understood by the general public?
[00:07:12]  Correct.
[00:07:12]  Right?
[00:07:13]  That's right.
[00:07:13]  So when you have a small amount of people that really understand the ins and outs of this, is it just more of a, you know, potential for this type of thing?
[00:07:25]  Well, not really, because, you know, the reality is it's the people that know it aren't necessarily even excited about the kind of things that are being built that are screwing things up.
[00:07:37]  Like the hardcore technologists actually just want it to all be decentralized.
[00:07:42]  That's why Bitcoin has such enthusiasm around it.
[00:07:44]  The NFT thing is really misunderstood because it's about the smart contracts and technology there, but it got all going on the collectibility, right?
[00:07:54]  And so I don't think it's about a small group knowing because it wasn't Sam's knowledge of blockchain that created this vulnerability.
[00:08:02]  It was the lack of knowledge of people leaving their money in there.
[00:08:06]  And like anything else, when people are, anytime there's something that's too good to be true, when everyone's trying to make a fast buck, this is what happens.
[00:08:14]  And you made the right call.
[00:08:16]  This is so similar to the web in 95, 6, 7, 8.
[00:08:19]  The difference was people weren't throwing around money and investing in things back then.
[00:08:23]  They didn't walk.
[00:08:24]  They did on the public stocks, like the pets.com and things of that nature, but that was a small group.
[00:08:29]  Today, everybody, all these youngsters, they all think they're investors.
[00:08:34]  Yeah.
[00:08:34]  And they're throwing around money like crazy.
[00:08:36]  So you're a long-term believer in crypto.
[00:08:39]  You're unfazed by any of the, you know, obviously the dips or like if.
[00:08:46]  Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm personally most bullish on NFTs.
[00:08:51]  Right.
[00:08:52]  Because I think that that's like iPhone app, website, social media accounts long-term.
[00:08:59]  I was taught, I went to Art Basil last year.
[00:09:01]  Okay.
[00:09:02]  And all of the, everybody was talking about NFTs.
[00:09:05]  Yes.
[00:09:05]  Or it might have been two years ago.
[00:09:07]  I've heard.
[00:09:07]  It was probably last year.
[00:09:08]  It was out of control.
[00:09:10]  It was last year.
[00:09:11]  It was last year.
[00:09:11]  You had like marshmallow at your party.
[00:09:13]  No.
[00:09:14]  Okay.
[00:09:15]  But I wish I did.
[00:09:16]  There was some party where somebody knew you let me in.
[00:09:19]  I got it.
[00:09:20]  I appreciate that.
[00:09:21]  One of your employees, I think.
[00:09:24]  And actually, I think that's, we did have Marshall.
[00:09:28]  I got COVID and left early and didn't get to see him.
[00:09:30]  He wrote to me.
[00:09:31]  Yeah, he was good.
[00:09:32]  He was great.
[00:09:34]  Everybody was talking about NFTs.
[00:09:36]  You have always been honest to your credit saying 90% of these.
[00:09:40]  99.
[00:09:40]  99% are going away.
[00:09:42]  Going to zero.
[00:09:43]  Projects are going to zero.
[00:09:44]  That's right.
[00:09:45]  Is it a little insane when do those two statements, are they able to live together?
[00:09:51]  Of course.
[00:09:52]  99% of this is going away and yet everybody get excited about it because it's awesome.
[00:09:57]  Yes.
[00:09:58]  Okay.
[00:09:58]  Because it was, because it's the complete replica of the internet.
[00:10:01]  You know, most of the people forget what internet hysteria 96, 7, 8 looked like.
[00:10:06]  Yeah, I was 10.
[00:10:07]  You were 10.
[00:10:08]  What did it look like?
[00:10:09]  It looked like the following.
[00:10:10]  The internet is going to change everything and everything's going to be on the internet in 24 months.
[00:10:15]  And meanwhile, there wasn't like a person I knew over 40 that even knew how to get on the internet yet.
[00:10:19]  That's why I get scared about the metaverse and VR.
[00:10:22]  Like the techno, the excitement is right, but it always takes 15 years.
[00:10:27]  And yes, do I think 1% is going to be special?
[00:10:30]  Of course I do because Amazon was sitting there in 1999 for $4 a share or whatever.
[00:10:35]  And that was a really good idea.
[00:10:37]  If you put a thousand into Amazon, it's like a million today.
[00:10:39]  It like worked out.
[00:10:41]  The problem was people get too greedy too fast.
[00:10:44]  And so, yeah, it was pretty easy for me to be like, hey, this NFT thing's pretty awesome.
[00:10:49]  Comma, 99% of what's out right now is going to zero.
[00:10:53]  Don't invest money that you can't afford to lose.
[00:10:56]  The problem is nobody heard the second part.
[00:10:58]  Right.
[00:10:59]  Because you had a buddy who bought a fucking NFT that had a snail with like a cigar up its ass.
[00:11:04]  And he's like, I bought this for 80 bucks.
[00:11:06]  It's not worth 44,000 and like everyone's like what the fuck isn't that a statement of our economy?
[00:11:13]  Yes, that a snail with a cigar up his ass would sell for like imagine telling a getting a guy out of the mines and the coal mines of Pennsylvania and showing him yes it does because I was in subpreme mortgages and and there are people that have negative thoughts about them.
[00:11:30]  I think they were beautiful instruments, but a lot of people have negative, they say negative things about them, whatever.
[00:11:35]  But I don't think you, I think people with that money should be given it sometimes.
[00:11:39]  So the reality is I don't have a problem with like these types of speculative things where people are like hey, i'm taking a chance, let's see if this works um, but you were also a deep believer and and this you may be proven right, I don't.
[00:11:55]  I don't know if we know in the art behind some of this stuff.
[00:12:00]  No, for me it's.
[00:12:01]  It's a couple things.
[00:12:02]  Yeah, I do believe that there will be a Jackson Pollock and an Andy Warhol of this generation.
[00:12:07]  I believe when you and I over beer watch this clip in 22 years that whether it's X copy or Beeple or somebody, Amber Victoria, I don't know who, but will there be three to four people that put out stuff during this era that in 25 years people collect like vigorously?
[00:12:25]  Yes, I believe that to be true.
[00:12:27]  That's 0.01% of all the artists.
[00:12:30]  My bigger thing was I felt what really got me hyped was it reminded me of after-school 80s cartoons.
[00:12:38]  If you think about 80s after school cartoons, Transformers, G.I. Joe, My Little Pony, right?
[00:12:44]  Yes.
[00:12:44]  All the Care Bears, all these IPs were built.
[00:12:48]  And it's very clear to me that during this era, five, seven, eight G.I. Joe Transformer, My Little Ponies will happen because you have real people that are real creative that are building intellectual properties and some of them will survive this carnage.
[00:13:05]  Right.
[00:13:06]  And I believe that those will be the important art collectible cartoons, video games, V-Friends is your line of all the different.
[00:13:15]  And are you, you're a both.
[00:13:16]  This is a proactive piranha.
[00:13:18]  Yes, please.
[00:13:19]  So this is a proactive piranha.
[00:13:21]  That's right.
[00:13:21]  So now this is a piranha who believes in hustle culture.
[00:13:25]  Well, I don't know about that.
[00:13:26]  Well, he's proactive.
[00:13:27]  Why is proactive hustle culture?
[00:13:29]  Well, he's hustling.
[00:13:31]  No, he's being proactive.
[00:13:32]  Well, that's a form of hustling.
[00:13:34]  Well, it all depends on how you want to use it.
[00:13:36]  So this is a piranha.
[00:13:37]  Are you against being proactive?
[00:13:39]  Because I would argue you're one of the more proactive people I have actually watched navigate Earth.
[00:13:43]  Well, that's completely, I mean, you've seen a lot of people navigate Earth that are a lot more proactive than me.
[00:13:48]  You're very proactive.
[00:13:49]  I try to be as proactive as you're proactive, brother.
[00:13:51]  I try to be proactive, which is proactive.
[00:13:53]  And I kind of look like, I don't want to sue you, but there is a similarity to this.
[00:13:59]  Now, this, this piranha, is he, is he to teach children about NFTs?
[00:14:04]  Like, what is he?
[00:14:07]  Like, is part of your, here's the way I see the V-Friends.
[00:14:10]  Yes.
[00:14:11]  You know how everyone's going nuts about the trans teachers like grooming the, getting the kids to be trans?
[00:14:16]  I see V-Friends as your way to groom kids into being entrepreneurs and start robbing their families.
[00:14:24]  Why would I rob their family?
[00:14:26]  You know what I mean?
[00:14:26]  Just kids start talking about NFTs at the dinner table.
[00:14:29]  Like, I feel like this is a way to get into kids' heads and they start talking about blockchain at lunch at school.
[00:14:34]  Hey, on your downtime, would you like to join our strategy team?
[00:14:37]  Yeah, right.
[00:14:39]  Well, but no, but I think for me, you know, I think that in a lot of stuff you talk about in a world of red and blue, right?
[00:14:47]  I think all the answers are purple.

=== Bridging the Vast Chasm of Society (03:29) ===

[00:14:49]  Right.
[00:14:49]  Really?
[00:14:50]  I think it's insane what everyone's doing.
[00:14:52]  And so for me, V-Friends is kind of like a world that I want to create that really educates people to play a little bit more in the middle, which is like proactiveness fucking matters.
[00:15:03]  Accountable ant, not on the shelf.
[00:15:05]  Talk about a character I want to build.
[00:15:07]  This is an aunt who's got fucking accountable for saying something wrong.
[00:15:12]  Nope.
[00:15:12]  And needs to be taught.
[00:15:13]  No, this is an aunt that understands that almost everybody's upset because they want to blame somebody besides themselves.
[00:15:20]  So these are characters that all have like there's a message.
[00:15:23]  Yes.
[00:15:24]  There's like accountable ant, there's pro so everyone has a thing about them.
[00:15:28]  Yep.
[00:15:29]  And is this targeted it?
[00:15:30]  Do you think kids learn?
[00:15:32]  I'm going to build it over the next 50 years, kind of like Marvel.
[00:15:34]  There'll be the stuff that's young.
[00:15:36]  Right.
[00:15:36]  But then just like, you know, older movies.
[00:15:39]  Yeah.
[00:15:41]  These characters will be developed to go the gamut from one to 99.
[00:15:45]  Okay.
[00:15:46]  And right now I'm skewing towards a younger play, you know, cartoons and toys and video games.
[00:15:54]  And so that's where my focus is right now.
[00:15:56]  When people criticize a lot of whatever you want to say, marketing gurus, people that are telling people like hustle, figure it out, grind, build your own thing, which of course is benefits to all of that, right?
[00:16:10]  But then there are these, this vast chasm of inequalities, right?
[00:16:15]  This vast chasm of wealth between people that are at the top and the people that are at the bottom.
[00:16:20]  And it seems increasingly unsustainable that we have this massive chasm, right?
[00:16:27]  Is it you mean in society, not in marketing, right?
[00:16:31]  We're going to probably live to see trillionaires, right?
[00:16:34]  Right.
[00:16:34]  Guys who have a trillion dollars.
[00:16:36]  Yes.
[00:16:36]  And then we have large swaths of the country that are somewhat ungovernable.
[00:16:41]  I mean, they're just people can't get clean.
[00:16:43]  What it's tough.
[00:16:45]  How does that all in the way you look at the world?
[00:16:49]  How do you think the ethos of what you kind of preach fits into a society where more and more people have less and less and more and more people are being, I guess, disenfranchised economically?
[00:17:07]  They're unable to participate in society in a way that you would like them to.
[00:17:15]  Yeah, I mean, I think this is why I love purple versus red and blue.
[00:17:17]  Yeah.
[00:17:18]  You know, I'm a true entrepreneur.
[00:17:19]  Right.
[00:17:19]  I was born in communism.
[00:17:21]  Right.
[00:17:21]  Like, actually.
[00:17:22]  Right.
[00:17:23]  So, you know, I think that I struggle with trying to suppress merit.
[00:17:29]  Agreed.
[00:17:30]  That just doesn't feel like the human spirit.
[00:17:32]  Agreed.
[00:17:33]  On the flip side, the thought of people who make hundreds of millions of dollars a year not paying taxes or trying to contribute feels off as well.
[00:17:41]  Right.
[00:17:41]  So for me, like, I'm a big fan of the middle.
[00:17:44]  Like, I really, really believe in that shit.
[00:17:47]  So as far as my message, the concept of like, hey, here are things that I see that might help you potentially feels incredibly good.
[00:17:58]  You know, I don't think what I talk about works for everyone.
[00:18:02]  I think everyone has different DNA.
[00:18:03]  Like I just share the things that I observe that I'm excited about with the hope that it provides value as far as kind of like just that it's a good feeling to get messages or interactions with people that have benefited from the positivity.

=== Life's Game and Positive Interactions (15:40) ===

[00:18:19]  Right.
[00:18:20]  I, I, you know, I talk to a lot of my friends who are entrepreneurs and capitalists who I always feel like the world, if you're going to want merit, let's have merit.
[00:18:31]  And I feel like when people get into their 70s, 80s, and 90s and they don't want to fight in the jungle anymore and they decide to use their money to pay off politicians to keep their money.
[00:18:40]  Yeah.
[00:18:41]  That's kind of loser fucking entrepreneurship.
[00:18:43]  It just seems like the system's so easy to game because I agree with you about merit.
[00:18:47]  I agree so much about merit.
[00:18:49]  But then you look at the FTX stuff and you go, man, the system seems very, very, you know, easily gamed.
[00:18:55]  Well, that's been, you know, the problem with the FTX thing is like Bernie Madoff did it when he was on the SEC.
[00:19:00]  Like when he's like, like it happens all, it's happened forever.
[00:19:03]  Humans are flawed, brother.
[00:19:05]  Like it's part of the fucking part of the game of life.
[00:19:09]  Like it is what it is.
[00:19:10]  It sucks.
[00:19:11]  Like who like fuck ripping people off.
[00:19:14]  There's people killing people this second.
[00:19:16]  As you and I sit here with a fucking piranha.
[00:19:18]  There are people killing other people.
[00:19:21]  People.
[00:19:21]  Humans are fully.
[00:19:23]  It's a waste.
[00:19:24]  It's for nobody.
[00:19:25]  There's people doing it for free.
[00:19:26]  That's right.
[00:19:28]  And that's a bigger problem is that there's no even benefit financially.
[00:19:31]  I mean, if you really want to get into like the fucking real fucked up of are you Ukrainian?
[00:19:35]  I'm Belarusian.
[00:19:37]  I was born in Belarus.
[00:19:38]  What's your read on this?
[00:19:41]  Fuck.
[00:19:41]  I mean, I mean, just quickly, I know it's hard.
[00:19:43]  My read on this is.
[00:19:46]  Is there an animal that'll explain the Ukraine war behind there?
[00:19:49]  This is the rational rattlesnake.
[00:19:50]  Okay, okay.
[00:19:51]  Everything is that really rational rattlesnake.
[00:19:53]  Everything that's going on in Ukraine and Russia is not rational.
[00:19:57]  It's not rational.
[00:19:57]  It's not rational.
[00:19:59]  It's not that rattlesnake.
[00:20:00]  But this guy, he's the one who goes, maybe I'm not here.
[00:20:03]  That's right.
[00:20:03]  I'm going to send a rational rattlesnake to talk to Putin.
[00:20:05]  He goes, because we can't totally isolate people.
[00:20:07]  He's got all the nukes.
[00:20:08]  Putin, right?
[00:20:09]  You know, like, but, and Zelensky seems like he's doing a good job.
[00:20:13]  And by the way, as we're filming this, by the way, as we're fucking taping this, a fucking missile hit Poland.
[00:20:18]  I know, but here's the way we all feel about Poland.
[00:20:20]  This may be good for Poland.
[00:20:22]  Poland has nothing going on, Gary.
[00:20:25]  You know this better than anyone.
[00:20:26]  This is a great rebrand opportunity for Poland.
[00:20:29]  You think so?
[00:20:31]  It's huge.
[00:20:31]  You feel things towards Poland?
[00:20:33]  Here's the thing with Poland.
[00:20:34]  Poland's now the country that got like hit with a missile by mistake.
[00:20:37]  It's time.
[00:20:37]  It's a rebrand.
[00:20:39]  They can go in.
[00:20:39]  They can march into it, own it.
[00:20:42]  Otherwise, we didn't really think about Poland.
[00:20:44]  So this is kind of what we have to do.
[00:20:46]  It's like, it's branding, right?
[00:20:47]  You've said it.
[00:20:48]  So, I mean.
[00:20:49]  So, so, look, I think, I think the reality is, is that there's so much always going on.
[00:20:56]  Yeah.
[00:20:57]  And right now, there's a lot going on.
[00:20:59]  Right.
[00:21:00]  And this is actually why I admire what you do for a living.
[00:21:02]  Thank you.
[00:21:03]  I believe that people need two core things when shit is really fucking tense.
[00:21:09]  Yes.
[00:21:10]  One, true escapism.
[00:21:11]  Yes.
[00:21:12]  And I think that's what you provide.
[00:21:13]  Yes.
[00:21:13]  I think when people just really, you really do.
[00:21:16]  Like you're really good at it.
[00:21:17]  Yeah.
[00:21:18]  And fucking laughing on some real shit is something way more people need to do.
[00:21:23]  I agree 100%.
[00:21:24]  It would really help a lot of people.
[00:21:26]  There's a fuck going on.
[00:21:28]  Then number two, it's the things that I'm passionate about, which is like just kind of jumping on what can I do about it.
[00:21:34]  Right.
[00:21:34]  You know, like, like if you were just like, I can't do shit.
[00:21:37]  Everything's fucked.
[00:21:38]  Do you know how sad you get?
[00:21:39]  How fast?
[00:21:40]  100%.
[00:21:41]  And I'm not saying that we should do that.
[00:21:43]  It just.
[00:21:44]  By the way, on the record, my number one topic for the last 25 years amongst my small group of friends is that the separation of wealth is the number one reason good places go to the ground.
[00:21:55]  Yeah.
[00:21:55]  And I'm completely directly like people go, hey, I want to hustle.
[00:22:00]  I want to do all these things.
[00:22:01]  I want to be an entrepreneur.
[00:22:03]  I want to do all these things.
[00:22:03]  But like my mother has cancer.
[00:22:06]  Yes.
[00:22:06]  She does not have health care.
[00:22:07]  That's real life.
[00:22:08]  She's been working at a job for however long and she's still unable to pay for her medication.
[00:22:14]  These are real things.
[00:22:16]  The question becomes in that scenario, besides voting.
[00:22:19]  Yes.
[00:22:20]  What does Ronnie or Sally in that scenario do?
[00:22:23]  Interesting.
[00:22:23]  Right.
[00:22:23]  Like to me, I'm with like to me, systematic issues.
[00:22:27]  Yes.
[00:22:27]  We could spend the rest of your fucking podcast, you and I fucking die talking about that.
[00:22:32]  But then in their life, they should, they could do something.
[00:22:36]  I mean, here's here, of course.
[00:22:38]  Right.
[00:22:38]  There are people who have remarkably challenging circumstances that accomplish things.
[00:22:44]  Yeah.
[00:22:45]  The end.
[00:22:46]  Right.
[00:22:46]  I mean, there is, I mean, I agree.
[00:22:49]  Both my parents lost a parent at five and 16.
[00:22:52]  That happened.
[00:22:53]  That was real.
[00:22:54]  Right.
[00:22:54]  They've lived in the USSR.
[00:22:56]  My mom lost her mom.
[00:22:58]  When did you come here?
[00:22:59]  1978.
[00:23:00]  So you were born in the USSR.
[00:23:01]  I was born in the USSR.
[00:23:03]  A great hook, isn't it a great hook to have it because you can really, when you say you're born in communism, you really, it really is true.
[00:23:10]  Well, you should see the combos me and my parents have when everyone's like America's going socialist.
[00:23:14]  My father and his broken you know his accents like these stupid Americans if they understood what the that actually was right and so like.
[00:23:21]  Yeah, it gives you perspective.
[00:23:23]  It also, when you grow up in a Russian household, like when I would like break my arm, my mom would like you remember that old Chris Rock joke, that Robotusin like rubbed the like.
[00:23:33]  I lived that life.
[00:23:34]  Yeah, it was like, mom, i'm sick, she's like go to sleep.
[00:23:37]  I was like what the is medicine?
[00:23:38]  When I was like, went to college and my friends are like take some tylenol, i'm like what is this incredible superpower?
[00:23:43]  You know like she was tough, it was just different and so like.
[00:23:47]  So it makes you like appreciate everything.
[00:23:50]  Right, do you think social media engagement is down?
[00:23:54]  Social media engagement is down.
[00:23:56]  It's.
[00:23:56]  That's what all the articles are saying it's is.
[00:23:59]  Am I wrong?
[00:24:00]  I think social media engagement on certain platforms is potentially down.
[00:24:04]  But go ahead, there are all these articles, a Spade of articles coming out.
[00:24:09]  Yes, this is why.
[00:24:09]  This is why we're sitting here together.
[00:24:11]  You texted me and said, yeah, pay this.
[00:24:12]  Well, that's like brother, i'm actually gonna cancel my tuesday night.
[00:24:15]  Yeah, let's I.
[00:24:16]  I was like, bring your camouflage, I want to get your.
[00:24:20]  Yeah, i've been, i'm invited, Camo.
[00:24:22]  This is.
[00:24:22]  I want to get your read on this.
[00:24:24]  Go ahead.
[00:24:25]  There are people out there making persuasive, compelling arguments that the your beloved social media, my beloved, your beloved social media people are sick of.
[00:24:34]  Yes, they're sick of it.
[00:24:35]  Yes, they realized how toxic it is.
[00:24:37]  Yes, they're gonna go back to their regular lives, whatever the hell that means.
[00:24:41]  They're gonna unplug from this thing called and then the.
[00:24:44]  The internet is not going to be the sole driver of culture in our, our lives anymore.
[00:24:49]  What is going to be Netflix?
[00:24:50]  I don't know.
[00:24:51]  Your podcast, I don't know.
[00:24:52]  I hope both those things.
[00:24:54]  I'm in deals with both, but the.
[00:24:56]  The reality is you.
[00:24:58]  Will you allow this to happen?
[00:25:01]  Will you let this happen?
[00:25:03]  Will you let people you want to hear something insane?
[00:25:05]  Will you let people leave you, kiss their kids and be happy?
[00:25:07]  Do you know how pumped I would be if social disappeared?
[00:25:10]  I mean, that seems crazy to hear why I built on email before that or like the like.
[00:25:16]  I only care about where the attention is right and i'll follow that right.
[00:25:20]  So like to me.
[00:25:22]  If Facebook and Twitter and SNAP and TICK TOCK all went away, you know, people like TICK TOCK might be banned.
[00:25:27]  The whole company's texting me like what the?
[00:25:29]  I'm like good, right.
[00:25:31]  Like it's completely irrelevant, right?
[00:25:33]  All I care about is trying to understand where people are paying attention and then I try to create value in that channel.
[00:25:39]  Whether that's a fucking book or if I have to go outside and talk on a corner, i'm interested.
[00:25:44]  When you look at social media and you see that it is quite toxic well, that's because people are toxic, of course they are.
[00:25:50]  Well what?
[00:25:51]  But social media also allows them to be toxic.
[00:25:53]  Well, what do you want?
[00:25:53]  Massive amounts of people?
[00:25:54]  Well, you want it regulated.
[00:25:56]  I'm not saying regulated, i'm just saying people seem to be kind of hashing.
[00:26:02]  No yes, I totally agree.
[00:26:03]  That's good, that is good.
[00:26:05]  I love the merit of the market.
[00:26:07]  Okay, if it's not bringing you value, what the are you doing?
[00:26:10]  People come up to me all the time like, literally at the airport, like Gary Instagram.
[00:26:14]  I'm like, like Instagram.
[00:26:16]  Is what's going on with Instagram.
[00:26:18]  It's just people drinking drinks out of hot dogs.
[00:26:21]  And it's sick.
[00:26:23]  But don't you understand this is kind of a portal to hell we've all opened here?
[00:26:26]  Well, a little bit.
[00:26:27]  I don't know.
[00:26:27]  It's a little bit of a portal.
[00:26:28]  I think I'm moonwalking to heaven because of it.
[00:26:30]  Well, that's a great way to say you're going to hell is moonwalking to heaven.
[00:26:34]  Is that true?
[00:26:35]  That's what someone would say if they were going to hell.
[00:26:36]  You'd say, man, if I have been heaven, if I end up in hell, I'm going to be like, motherfucking TD.
[00:26:41]  If he fucking sent me here, you will colonize it quickly.
[00:26:44]  I would dominate hell.
[00:26:45]  You'll dominate hell.
[00:26:46]  You would dominate hell.
[00:26:47]  I'll get everybody happy.
[00:26:49]  Come on.
[00:26:49]  This is not.
[00:26:50]  Let's go.
[00:26:50]  So what is the main focus of when you look at these people saying that the internet's people are kind of getting, you know, take stepping back?
[00:26:59]  It means nothing new.
[00:27:00]  In fact, you like it.
[00:27:01]  You think this is a good thing.
[00:27:02]  I think these are articles being written based on the article that you're probably referring to is like, oh, it's more about TikTok and YouTube and like Netflix.
[00:27:11]  It's more about entertainment.
[00:27:12]  And I'm like, who's providing the entertainment?
[00:27:14]  Right.
[00:27:15]  It's humans.
[00:27:16]  Yeah.
[00:27:17]  Like, I love this concept that, like, nothing.
[00:27:20]  Look, any ideology one has drist, no matter where it is, you just have to base it on what people are actually doing.
[00:27:28]  Does the I'm going to tell you, let me just finish this for sure.
[00:27:31]  People are not using this shit less.
[00:27:33]  Right.
[00:27:34]  But if they are, cool.
[00:27:36]  If there's a fat girl on Instagram who eats a different sausage every day, does she deserve to be famous?
[00:27:41]  Do you know what I mean?
[00:27:43]  Anybody deserves this?
[00:27:44]  But Gary, don't you see why some people think that's crazy?
[00:27:47]  I think it's crazy that you and I are famous.
[00:27:50]  I don't even know if we are, but you're very famous.
[00:27:52]  You are very stopped.
[00:27:54]  What are you talking about?
[00:27:55]  The animals are after you.
[00:27:56]  I don't have to.
[00:27:57]  You go to fucking Australia and fill out fucking arenas.
[00:28:00]  Well, the people in Australia have been very kind and good.
[00:28:03]  They're very, very, very nice.
[00:28:04]  Yes.
[00:28:05]  I've said horrible things about them.
[00:28:06]  I actually think that there is no fame.
[00:28:09]  It's been commoditized and everybody's got some sort of audience.
[00:28:13]  And I think it's awesome.
[00:28:14]  I think it's awesome that Sean can do what he does with Comedy and People.
[00:28:19]  What does Sean do?
[00:28:19]  Sean is going to be as big as you in three years.
[00:28:22]  Listen, he should be bigger than me now.
[00:28:23]  But what does he do just out of curiosity?
[00:28:25]  He works at 1.37 p.m., which is a media platform that I own here in my Vayner X world.
[00:28:31]  But really, he's a future comedic superstar.
[00:28:33]  Wow.
[00:28:34]  I really think he's very talented.
[00:28:35]  I really do think he's extremely talented.
[00:28:37]  God bless.
[00:28:38]  Good luck.
[00:28:38]  Thank you.
[00:28:39]  And I think you, if you dug in, would like actually believe that's true.
[00:28:42]  I, I, I feel like he's part of the crew that you came up with.
[00:28:46]  Like, you would see it.
[00:28:47]  Anyway, nonetheless, if we met or not, I saw you at Skang Fest very briefly, but we didn't know.
[00:28:51]  Oh, you went to Skang Fest.
[00:28:52]  Okay.
[00:28:52]  Oh, so he's plugged in.
[00:28:53]  He's plugged in.
[00:28:54]  He's plugged in.
[00:28:55]  Like, by the way, I just.
[00:28:58]  I just said that strictly selfish so I could cut it in four years and like I predicted this kid was going to be right.
[00:29:03]  That was all selfish.
[00:29:04]  Which what you do do you are you doing knowing that it's all of it there's something are they what are they doing tests all of it because I yeah if you're listening right now the building is doing the test that's good authentic yeah um everything I am petrified to be wrong right so everything I say publicly I'd like to be right about Sam Bankman Fried calls you what do you tell him what's your advice To a guy at this point in his life.
[00:29:29]  He's a young guy.
[00:29:30]  I have fought, believe it or not, you'll appreciate this.
[00:29:32]  I have followed this so little.
[00:29:34]  It is very seemingly that he's in Fraudsville.
[00:29:37]  And I think what he needs to do is like really go through like some help to understand how he got into this place.
[00:29:42]  Into Fraudsville.
[00:29:44]  Yeah.
[00:29:44]  So he's got to maybe get some therapy to get into Fraudsville.
[00:29:47]  I think so.
[00:29:48]  Better help.
[00:29:49]  Online therapy will do it.
[00:29:52]  I'm sure.
[00:29:53]  So your company, because there's people out there that don't understand what you do.
[00:29:56]  Right.
[00:29:56]  That's my favorite.
[00:29:58]  They go, he's there.
[00:29:59]  He's everywhere, but we don't understand what he does.
[00:30:02]  Have you watched the show Madmen?
[00:30:05]  Yes.
[00:30:06]  That's what I do for a living.
[00:30:07]  I own a very large version of the advertising giants that you're helping companies connect with people on social media.
[00:30:15]  Yeah, also social media.
[00:30:16]  So you could help my social media get better.
[00:30:19]  Not yours.
[00:30:20]  Because I'm not big enough, but some people.
[00:30:21]  No, no.
[00:30:22]  That's correct.
[00:30:23]  Not people.
[00:30:23]  Right.
[00:30:24]  But a company.
[00:30:25]  Yes, companies.
[00:30:26]  Coldstone creamery.
[00:30:27]  I would love to.
[00:30:28]  Could come to you and say, we need more fat, sad people to come into our establishments that we put.
[00:30:37]  Why does it have to be fat and sad?
[00:30:38]  Because that's where you build your market, Gary.
[00:30:41]  There's kids and families every now and then after the Little League game, but you build your market at Coldstone on a guy who's had enough who comes in and just wants...
[00:30:50]  Do you like Coldstone?
[00:30:51]  It's not bad.
[00:30:52]  It's good, right?
[00:30:53]  It's not bad.
[00:30:54]  I've been fat and sad.
[00:30:55]  And I'm telling you, there are markets that are built on the backs of sad people that are doing the wrong thing.
[00:31:00]  There's nothing wrong with that.
[00:31:02]  I understand.
[00:31:02]  Yes.
[00:31:03]  You have to connect with everybody, you know?
[00:31:06]  So companies are for you.
[00:31:07]  It's not people.
[00:31:08]  Correct.
[00:31:09]  Okay.
[00:31:09]  Interesting.
[00:31:10]  And so for me, these companies waste so much money on traditional TV commercials, banner ads on websites.
[00:31:17]  It's actually scary how poorly the Fortune 500 ecosystem spends their marketing dollars.
[00:31:23]  And so we came 13 years ago and have really built a large 2,000 person global company that I'm really proud of and I really enjoy operating.
[00:31:32]  Who are the most interesting entrepreneurs that you've seen up close that you've worked with that you think are, I don't know how many of them you can say or not, that you look at and they embody the values of somebody who can really, you know, innovate and change the world.
[00:31:51]  Like who are the people that I'm a big fan of Evan Williams?
[00:31:55]  He was Jack Dorsey's partner at Twitter.
[00:31:57]  Okay.
[00:31:57]  He did Blogger.
[00:32:00]  Remember Blogger back in the day?
[00:32:01]  I remember Blogger back in the day.
[00:32:02]  And then he did Odeo, which was a podcast thing that kind of got crushed because Apple came out with its iTunes.
[00:32:11]  And then he did Twitter with Jack and he was instrumental.
[00:32:13]  He was the first CEO, I believe.
[00:32:15]  I've always thought, you know, what do you think of Jack?
[00:32:17]  I don't know Jack super well.
[00:32:19]  Like he really invented the concept of Twitter.
[00:32:22]  Right.
[00:32:22]  And I love that he was running.
[00:32:24]  Twin outfits where he dresses like a shaman.
[00:32:26]  He's cool.
[00:32:27]  Yeah.
[00:32:27]  No, that's disturbing.
[00:32:29]  Oh, it's disturbing?
[00:32:29]  Well, it's a little off-putting.
[00:32:31]  But I get it.
[00:32:32]  It's cool for a minute, but then it gets odd.
[00:32:35]  But these guys are interesting.
[00:32:36]  They're unique, eccentric people.
[00:32:39]  Evan is super not.
[00:32:40]  Okay.
[00:32:41]  I think what Evan is is just very in tune with consumers.
[00:32:44]  I really like people that really, Sarah Blakely with Spanks.
[00:32:48]  Okay.
[00:32:48]  If you really look at how she built that brand, very in tune with cons, like what I get excited about is when people really have a good sense of what the masses want.
[00:32:57]  Okay.
[00:32:57]  I'm intrigued by that.
[00:32:58]  Like truly being like, hey, this is missing or this would be awesome if it existed.
[00:33:04]  And it doesn't have to be something as profound as like what Elon and like and Jack and like it could be literally Spanks.
[00:33:10]  It could literally be like, you know, like who thought of like bottled water?
[00:33:14]  Like like I actually think that's interesting.
[00:33:17]  It would have been a ridiculous concept.
[00:33:19]  It was fucking free.
[00:33:21]  Somebody's like, no, people will actually want this this way.
[00:33:24]  I'm always fascinated by that.
[00:33:26]  Are you fascinated by this?
[00:33:27]  And I'm sure you are about like, you know, you look at Casamigo's tequila with George Clooney.
[00:33:31]  Look at what the Kardashians are doing.
[00:33:32]  Yes.
[00:33:32]  All this influencer capital, right?
[00:33:34]  Celebrity capital, where it's like their value is in their audience, their name, things like that.
[00:33:39]  That's a very interesting.
[00:33:40]  They're partnering with.
[00:33:41]  You know, it's funny.
[00:33:42]  I also grew up in the liquor industry.
[00:33:43]  My dad had a liquor store.
[00:33:44]  And what I will tell you is what people don't know about Ryan Reynolds' gin or The Rocks or Clooney's Tequila is what they've, a lot of these celebrities have done well is they've actually made really good products.

=== Hiring Guessing and Contextual Creativity (15:31) ===

[00:33:59]  So what used to happen in specially alcohol is like the Rolling Stones would like give their name to a wine.
[00:34:05]  It would be like bulk bullshit wine and it was like a novelty gift.
[00:34:09]  Somewhere around 20 years ago, people started getting serious and making like actual good stuff.
[00:34:14]  So now what I think is fascinating about that whole genre is they're not mailing it in on the product.
[00:34:21]  And I think it's a previewed of what you're going to see more and more, which is like, it's not a private label that just puts a celebrity on it, which was the whole move of the 80s and 90s.
[00:34:30]  People are trying to build actual things.
[00:34:32]  And I do think people like Mr. Beast and others are going to build multi-billion dollar companies.
[00:34:38]  Mr. Beast seems to be like the guy.
[00:34:40]  He's doing a really good job.
[00:34:42]  Yeah.
[00:34:42]  I mean, he's also like, you know, like he goes more into your world where like when I think about you, when I think about like, there's people that have craft.
[00:34:50]  Yeah.
[00:34:51]  His videos on YouTube is craft.
[00:34:53]  Brilliant.
[00:34:54]  Like my craft is just the words and ideas that come out of my mouth, but it's not the production and like he is craft.
[00:35:01]  Yeah.
[00:35:01]  And, you know, the Beesburger thing has been huge.
[00:35:03]  The chocolate thing's been huge.
[00:35:05]  He's a young dude.
[00:35:05]  He understands like giving a shit about your audience, playing the long game.
[00:35:09]  He's been patient.
[00:35:10]  Companies that go through challenging periods and they come back, the Weinstein Company.
[00:35:17]  How does the Weinstein Company, because let's be honest, they made great movies and they had some problems.
[00:35:22]  Yes.
[00:35:23]  How does the Weinstein company come back?
[00:35:26]  Van Your Media, you're there.
[00:35:28]  You take them on as a client.
[00:35:30]  You sit them in one of these beautiful conference rooms.
[00:35:33]  How do you get them back?
[00:35:35]  Make great movies.
[00:35:36]  That's right.
[00:35:37]  Don't just you go back to basics.
[00:35:39]  You go back to basics.
[00:35:40]  And you just ignore.
[00:35:42]  Ignore the people that are going to say nasty things.
[00:35:44]  I think, I think things evolved, right?
[00:35:46]  Like Adidas and BMW were Nazi-driven companies.
[00:35:50]  Do you say to Skechers, do a Nazi shoe with Kanye?
[00:35:54]  No, I don't.
[00:35:54]  Don't.
[00:35:55]  No, I'm because at the end of the day, yes, because there's nothing going on at Skechers.
[00:36:01]  And if they did a kind of a Nazi boot that could play in Little America.
[00:36:05]  So TD, you believe it is in Skechers' best business strategy to create a Nazi to go Nazi boot.
[00:36:13]  Huge respect.
[00:36:15]  Because I don't know what else is going on over there.
[00:36:17]  You know, I mean.
[00:36:18]  Do you have time to join the strategy team of some of my competitors?
[00:36:21]  Yes.
[00:36:22]  Listen, who are your competitors?
[00:36:25]  Who are the people?
[00:36:26]  Who are the people out there?
[00:36:28]  Do you have enemies?
[00:36:30]  Do you have people you want to crush?
[00:36:32]  Is it like succession where you sit back here and you go, there's another one?
[00:36:37]  I want him dead and I want his family.
[00:36:39]  I think that's where people have a real fucked up view of the world.
[00:36:44]  The world is fundamentally abundant.
[00:36:47]  There's nobody that's taking any fans from you.
[00:36:50]  Right.
[00:36:51]  Like there's plenty of comedians.
[00:36:52]  They're all over the streaming services.
[00:36:54]  It's a renaissance for all you guys and gals.
[00:36:56]  It's awesome.
[00:36:57]  But I promise you, the seven to 10 people that are in the game that you look at, that you admire, that you think are good, that are bad, whatever, none of them are taking anything from you.
[00:37:07]  No, and what Joe Rogan has done is kind of shown people that by sharing and believing doing all that stuff, you actually help each other, help yourself.
[00:37:19]  So you're 100% right about it.
[00:37:21]  Look, do I want to win?
[00:37:23]  Of course.
[00:37:23]  I'm competitive.
[00:37:24]  I like to be as successful as I can be at the game that I'm playing.
[00:37:27]  But like as a Jets fan, when the Jets lose a football game and the game's over and they take their helmets off and they're giving love to the opponent, I hate that.
[00:37:35]  Right.
[00:37:36]  Because I'm pissed.
[00:37:37]  Right.
[00:37:37]  Because I'm a fan.
[00:37:38]  Right.
[00:37:39]  Fanatic.
[00:37:40]  And I want to fucking punch the TV because I'm like, fuck those guys.
[00:37:43]  Don't even shake their hand.
[00:37:45]  But when I do it in real life, aka pitching for business and we lose it.
[00:37:49]  Like I'm not angry about that.
[00:37:51]  I don't think anyone's taking anything from me.
[00:37:54]  And so like, I don't, I don't really have a feeling where I have negative feelings towards people.
[00:38:00]  I want to win every time.
[00:38:01]  But if not, cool.
[00:38:02]  And then I'm definitely not going to be like Sally or Rick or pieces of shit because they slip out on the staff, Everett.
[00:38:07]  Do you give those meetings?
[00:38:08]  Do you give those like, you know, like Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross meetings where it's like, always be closing?
[00:38:15]  I think the concept of leading with fear is fucking asinine.
[00:38:20]  Right.
[00:38:20]  No, I do not do that.
[00:38:21]  Okay.
[00:38:22]  So you're more of like a kind of like, I don't know what you would say, but more of like a lover?
[00:38:29]  A lover.
[00:38:30]  Yeah.
[00:38:30]  Okay.
[00:38:30]  So you're not Logan Roy.
[00:38:32]  You're not going in there and like, okay.
[00:38:34]  Do you, what are you, when you, when you first started making money, what were the things that you liked?
[00:38:39]  Was it a nice car?
[00:38:41]  Was it a watch?
[00:38:42]  Was it, are you into stuff like that?
[00:38:43]  Or was it like that?
[00:38:44]  I don't like stuff.
[00:38:45]  I did like buying like custom Jets jerseys of like random players that nobody knew who the fuck they were.
[00:38:51]  Okay.
[00:38:51]  But that's like $90.
[00:38:53]  Right.
[00:38:54]  I don't really like to buy stuff.
[00:38:56]  I do like vacations.
[00:38:57]  I like spending time with my friends and family.
[00:38:59]  Right.
[00:39:00]  Like I love, I'm huge.
[00:39:01]  That to me is humongous.
[00:39:02]  I'd much rather spend on like paying for like my family's flights or shit like that.
[00:39:08]  That's the big luxury place for me.
[00:39:10]  Right.
[00:39:10]  So it's not things.
[00:39:12]  I don't want things.
[00:39:12]  It's experiences.
[00:39:13]  I want the game.
[00:39:15]  Right.
[00:39:15]  Experiences, yes.
[00:39:17]  You want the game.
[00:39:18]  You like the game.
[00:39:19]  You just like.
[00:39:19]  I'm just curious how great of an entrepreneur am I is a question I'd like answered for myself before I die.
[00:39:25]  That's a very interesting question.
[00:39:27]  How great of an entrepreneur because since you were a little kid, you just love making, making businesses, making money, making things happen.
[00:39:35]  Yes.
[00:39:36]  And you want to take that as far as you can take it.
[00:39:38]  I'm genuinely curious of how great am I at the game of business.
[00:39:44]  Right.
[00:39:45]  On the flip side, in parallel, I love, you know, I love the game so much that I want to give back to it.
[00:39:51]  Back to Joe that you mentioned.
[00:39:53]  Yeah.
[00:39:55]  I really fuck with comedians.
[00:39:57]  Yeah.
[00:39:57]  I really do.
[00:39:58]  And I'll tell you why.
[00:39:59]  I love the following scenario.
[00:40:02]  When I watch documentaries and I watch a lot of shit, I always collecting.
[00:40:05]  I always love hearing all of you guys and gals talk about when you had a set at the laugh factory and a fucking OG came up to you and gave you dApps.
[00:40:14]  Yeah.
[00:40:15]  I've always been very fascinated by that.
[00:40:19]  Like just the concept of people at the top of the game loving their game so much that they're willing to give love for the kids that are on the come up.
[00:40:27]  Yeah.
[00:40:27]  And I do a ton of that in the entrepreneur land.
[00:40:31]  I want to leave a legacy that brings value to the other people trying to play this game.
[00:40:35]  How do people get jobs at Fan Your Media?
[00:40:37]  Do that?
[00:40:38]  How does it, do you see someone doing something in life?
[00:40:42]  Do you ever go, you're at a restaurant and you see a guy who's just the best waiter?
[00:40:47]  Yes.
[00:40:47]  The best bartender.
[00:40:49]  And you go, listen, dude, you're not going to be able to do that.
[00:40:52]  That was very common at Vayner early on.
[00:40:55]  It's less common now because I just haven't been out and about the last three years because of COVID and I'm not traveling as much.
[00:41:01]  Right.
[00:41:02]  And at this point, we're just getting bombarded with hundreds of applications a week.
[00:41:06]  Right.
[00:41:06]  Like these guys that are in the room right now, they all have a similar look to them.
[00:41:09]  They have an intensity that's terrifying.
[00:41:12]  Yes.
[00:41:13]  And you can tell it behind their eyes.
[00:41:14]  There's nothing.
[00:41:15]  And you could just kill you personally at any moment.
[00:41:18]  You can't kill anyone.
[00:41:19]  There's trees just being chopped down in their heads.
[00:41:23]  But there's something about that I think is good.
[00:41:24]  Like I look at these people and I go, these are good people.
[00:41:26]  How do you find them?
[00:41:27]  I think it becomes momentum.
[00:41:29]  Like a lot of it's word of mouth.
[00:41:30]  A lot of it's random.
[00:41:31]  Dustin, get on the mic real quick and get close.
[00:41:34]  How'd you get your job?
[00:41:35]  Dustin, tell us.
[00:41:36]  I applied like a regular person.
[00:41:37]  And what happened?
[00:41:38]  Got rejected.
[00:41:39]  We could say it into the mic just because we want the people to know.
[00:41:43]  Got applied.
[00:41:44]  I applied twice, got rejected both times.
[00:41:47]  Then you kidnapped Gary's children.
[00:41:50]  It's smart.
[00:41:51]  It's a good.
[00:41:52]  I wish it was that easy, but then the director at the time just hit me up an email, said, come in for an interview.
[00:41:59]  I said, okay, cool.
[00:42:01]  Had the interview, gave me a homework assignment, did the homework assignments, never heard from him again.
[00:42:07]  Then four months later, calls me out of the blue and was like, hey, you still interested in the job?
[00:42:10]  I said, yes.
[00:42:11]  Come in.
[00:42:13]  And then we'll see what we'll go from there.
[00:42:14]  And then just went hard from then.
[00:42:17]  Editing or, well, I applied twice.
[00:42:20]  Yep.
[00:42:21]  And then didn't hear back, started popping off on TikTok a little bit.
[00:42:26]  Right.
[00:42:27]  Yeah.
[00:42:27]  Well, then I stopped because I was upset about a girl and I had a lull in my life.
[00:42:31]  And then May hit me up.
[00:42:33]  She was like, hey, we love your stuff.
[00:42:35]  Will you edit Gary's TikToks?
[00:42:37]  So I went for two months.
[00:42:40]  2020, peak COVID.
[00:42:42]  I'm depressed as fuck.
[00:42:44]  I just bombed an interview at an investment bank because I thought I had COVID, but I was going to die.
[00:42:48]  So I was just, that's some depression.
[00:42:51]  I see your blog post about the post-creative status role.
[00:42:53]  I'm like, this looks interesting.
[00:42:55]  Like, I like reading comments.
[00:42:56]  I could do this.
[00:42:57]  I think I could do it really well.
[00:42:58]  I literally just applied online.
[00:43:00]  I think I had like 10 different interviews with like all different teams, like handle, da-da-da.
[00:43:04]  Eventually ended up on DFF, met Team Gary, worked at me and we got three years ago.
[00:43:08]  Do you ever sit in the interview?
[00:43:10]  Not anymore.
[00:43:11]  Intimidating.
[00:43:12]  No, no.
[00:43:12]  Don't come in.
[00:43:13]  No, I think I do it that most my direct reports, the C-suite and things of that nature.
[00:43:19]  The C-suite is the top.
[00:43:20]  The top.
[00:43:21]  This is the top.
[00:43:22]  This is the top.
[00:43:22]  You don't get to the C-suite without competence.
[00:43:27]  Yeah, confidence probably.
[00:43:28]  Competence.
[00:43:29]  Oh, competence.
[00:43:30]  Well, I'm guessing that you have competence.
[00:43:32]  That's a good point.
[00:43:33]  You know, the reality is hiring is guessing.
[00:43:35]  Right.
[00:43:36]  Like, I really go on my intuition.
[00:43:38]  You know, it's funny you said early on the way we started this.
[00:43:42]  I'm so confident in my intuition that that's why I think I do so well with people razzing me or making like literally the first time I ever saw any of the stuff that you were saying.
[00:43:52]  Right.
[00:43:53]  I had already been aware of some of your comedy and then saw this, some of the stuff.
[00:43:56]  It was within a hundredth of a second.
[00:43:58]  I'm like, this is a good dude.
[00:43:59]  Right.
[00:44:00]  Like while all my friends were like, yo, we're going to beat the fuck out of TV.
[00:44:03]  I was like, no, I'm like, he's a great dude.
[00:44:05]  They're like, what?
[00:44:06]  All right.
[00:44:07]  You know, the trees in the eyes like that.
[00:44:08]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:44:08]  You know, so for me, the same thing with hiring.
[00:44:12]  Comma, I've mishired so much in my fucking life that I know it's fucking guessing.
[00:44:18]  It's guessing.
[00:44:19]  It's fucking guessing.
[00:44:20]  Of course you get more experiences.
[00:44:21]  You get the great fucking heroes.
[00:44:23]  No different than your sets are stronger today than 15 years ago.
[00:44:26]  But every fuck, I mean, I've made a couple hires in the last 18 months.
[00:44:30]  Literally, I'm just laughing at how bad these people are right now.
[00:44:33]  Yeah.
[00:44:33]  What makes somebody great as an employee or an, you know, somebody who's like, what makes somebody better in the business situation and what makes somebody worse?
[00:44:45]  Like, is it somebody who's able to get stuff at the door?
[00:44:49]  Yeah.
[00:44:49]  In our company, it's not being, it's not believing in cynicism and not being scared.
[00:44:55]  Okay.
[00:44:55]  Because we have unlimited doors.
[00:44:56]  My doors open.
[00:44:58]  Our people team is huge.
[00:45:01]  Like the way we do HR is fucking different.
[00:45:04]  And like, if you're going to bring cynicism of the places you worked in the past, it's going to lead to politics and you're going to lose.
[00:45:09]  If you're willing to kind of let go and over communicate whatever's bothering you or things of that nature, you will crush.
[00:45:15]  Yeah.
[00:45:16]  When you're telling companies how to reach people, what's the most important?
[00:45:20]  They go, we want to get to consumers.
[00:45:23]  Creative strategy per social media platform.
[00:45:25]  Understanding, like for you, for example.
[00:45:28]  Yeah.
[00:45:28]  Back to your social.
[00:45:29]  Yes.
[00:45:29]  I would do a lot more on LinkedIn if I were you.
[00:45:32]  You know what?
[00:45:33]  This is brilliant because I've never thought about that.
[00:45:35]  So I think a lot of your comedy is super thoughtful.
[00:45:38]  No, I didn't even know I could do something on LinkedIn.
[00:45:41]  Correct.
[00:45:41]  Do you mean comedy or start like a healthcare fraud company on LinkedIn?
[00:45:45]  Because I'll do that.
[00:45:46]  I know you will.
[00:45:47]  Okay.
[00:45:47]  But I highly recommend you get thoughtful about taking some of your clips, clipping it for LinkedIn and writing copy that is a hair take like 10 miles off your fastball.
[00:45:59]  Yeah.
[00:45:59]  And I think you would fucking crush.
[00:46:01]  That's very interesting.
[00:46:02]  So it's, it's creative strategy.
[00:46:04]  It's understanding that a video on TikTok is going to act different than a video on YouTube Shorts and a video on Twitter.
[00:46:10]  It's, you know, you'll really like this because this is, there's no way to be a big time comedian without understanding this.
[00:46:16]  Every platform is a different room.
[00:46:18]  Right.
[00:46:19]  Right.
[00:46:19]  So like when you're touring the U.S., you know, I know this about your comedy because I've, as I've dug in, as we've gotten friendly on text a little bit, I like am more curious and I'm always kind of rooting more.
[00:46:30]  You know somebody.
[00:46:31]  Your comedy is going to be different in city by city.
[00:46:36]  That's right.
[00:46:36]  Country by country.
[00:46:37]  Always different.
[00:46:38]  So for me, same with the way I do public speaking and definitely the backbone of why I want on social.
[00:46:44]  Like I understand the room that I'm in.
[00:46:47]  And for me, it's you're trying to get them to laugh and think.
[00:46:51]  I'm trying to get them to think and do.
[00:46:53]  Right.
[00:46:54]  And so I think that's where people are missing.
[00:46:56]  They think, let me make a piece of content and I'm going to blast it on all these platforms.
[00:47:01]  I'm thinking, oh, I'm in TikTok tonight.
[00:47:04]  Well, I'm in like Buffalo for 40 people.
[00:47:06]  I have to give a Josh Allen joke.
[00:47:08]  Right.
[00:47:09]  Oh, I'm in Australia.
[00:47:10]  Let me give a footy joke and a Cooper's beer, not a Budweiser.
[00:47:15]  And so contextual creative is the number, like out of this entire podcast, for all the people listening, this little part right here is the single thing that can make their career or their little business or their big business go further, understanding how to make content for the place you're fucking distributing it.
[00:47:32]  Right.
[00:47:33]  What do you think about the resurgence of NFTs?
[00:47:37]  When does that happen?
[00:47:38]  I have no idea.
[00:47:39]  You have no idea.
[00:47:40]  Because now you're in the winter.
[00:47:41]  We're in crypto.
[00:47:42]  We are in crypto winter.
[00:47:43]  This is the death.
[00:47:45]  This is when B players get smoked out.
[00:47:48]  B players.
[00:47:49]  Yeah.
[00:47:50]  The C and D and F players are literally already gone.
[00:47:52]  They're dead.
[00:47:53]  They're dead.
[00:47:54]  B players are going to get the frostbite and get their toes cut off.
[00:47:57]  How bad has it gotten?
[00:47:57]  What's a crypto punk going for now?
[00:47:59]  Maybe the floor is like 870, 80K and it was.
[00:48:04]  That's horrible.
[00:48:05]  Well, CryptoPunks is the one.
[00:48:06]  Because that guy.
[00:48:07]  That's going to be the one.
[00:48:08]  Yeah.
[00:48:08]  Like, you know, I can only talk about what I'm doing.
[00:48:11]  That's the only one I'm sure of, including mine.
[00:48:14]  If I die tomorrow, VFriends can't be what it was supposed to be.
[00:48:17]  Right.
[00:48:18]  From V-Friends to World of Women to Bored Ape to all of them, it requires the operator to make it awesome over the next 20 years to justify the whole thing.
[00:48:26]  You said every business is going to eventually have an NFT strategy.
[00:48:29]  100%.
[00:48:30]  You said Web3 is going, it's an inevitable thing.
[00:48:34]  Correct.
[00:48:34]  It's going to happen.
[00:48:35]  Yes.
[00:48:36]  And you don't know when.
[00:48:38]  Well, I think over the next decade or two, that will be obvious.
[00:48:41]  And here's what I mean by that.
[00:48:43]  Almost every, like the amount of companies that have an app on the iPhone is remarkable.
[00:48:48]  Right.
[00:48:49]  There's like local pizza restaurants that have one location in Maine that have an app.
[00:48:54]  Right.
[00:48:55]  Not every single app is going to become TikTok and Instagram.
[00:48:59]  Same with NFTs.
[00:49:00]  The technology of NFT is going to work for every business, but not every project is going to be Bored Ape Yacht Club.
[00:49:07]  Right.
[00:49:08]  So it's technology, not about the collectibility.
[00:49:11]  When do you think the metaverse, because the metaverse, those things look horrible.
[00:49:18]  Are you excited?
[00:49:20]  On some real shit.
[00:49:21]  Real shit.
[00:49:21]  Because you're a smart dude.
[00:49:22]  Sure.
[00:49:23]  Are you excited about doing virtual events in 15 years?
[00:49:27]  I kind of am, yes.
[00:49:29]  I think you're going to crush that.
[00:49:30]  Yes.

=== Technology Beyond Collectibility (03:05) ===

[00:49:31]  I'm excited about that.
[00:49:32]  And where are you going to live full-time when you don't have to go anywhere?
[00:49:35]  What do you think about that?
[00:49:36]  Well, right now, according to the IRS, I file in Dubai.
[00:49:38]  Right.
[00:49:38]  Pay taxes in Dubai.
[00:49:40]  And I have a mosque where I run most of my business through.
[00:49:43]  No, but real talk.
[00:49:44]  Yeah.
[00:49:45]  What's your get?
[00:49:46]  What's your absolute guess?
[00:49:48]  Just for fun so we can recall it and clip it and see how right you are.
[00:49:51]  Okay.
[00:49:51]  16 years from now, VR is at full scale.
[00:49:54]  Yes.
[00:49:54]  You don't have to go anywhere.
[00:49:55]  Okay.
[00:49:56]  You are going to have a home base and you're going to do 200 shows a year.
[00:49:59]  Yeah.
[00:49:59]  And you're not going to fucking travel.
[00:50:01]  Interesting.
[00:50:02]  Where do you physically live?
[00:50:03]  In the middle of the ocean.
[00:50:06]  In like a pod, like a pirate, like a pod.
[00:50:09]  What do you think about Austin, Texas?
[00:50:11]  Everyone's saying it's the next thing.
[00:50:13]  Everybody's going to Austin.
[00:50:15]  Are you going to be left behind living in New York like some loser?
[00:50:19]  Look at this dump.
[00:50:20]  Have you been to Austin?
[00:50:21]  Have you seen it?
[00:50:22]  They have a barbecue and lesbians.
[00:50:25]  Don't you want to go there and see what they're doing?
[00:50:27]  We have barbecues and lesbians in New York.
[00:50:29]  Yeah, no, I know.
[00:50:29]  But what do you say?
[00:50:30]  Now, we all know Austin's a dump and the people who are moving there are insane.
[00:50:34]  But what do you think about it?
[00:50:35]  Where do you stand on it?
[00:50:36]  Are you with them or are you against them?
[00:50:38]  I'm with everyone.
[00:50:40]  You're with everybody.
[00:50:41]  You can't be because they didn't even know.
[00:50:42]  Of course you can.
[00:50:43]  You can't be with everyone.
[00:50:45]  You can't never live in Austin, Texas.
[00:50:47]  100% no.
[00:50:48]  Never.
[00:50:48]  Never.
[00:50:49]  And now why?
[00:50:50]  Because I'll never leave New York.
[00:50:51]  Okay.
[00:50:52]  I would never live in LA.
[00:50:53]  I would never live in Detroit.
[00:50:55]  I would never live in Florida.
[00:50:57]  What do you think it is about New York for you specifically?
[00:50:59]  The New York Jets.
[00:51:01]  Is that it?
[00:51:02]  Yes.
[00:51:02]  Is that true?
[00:51:03]  Yes.
[00:51:05]  I need to be.
[00:51:05]  Thank God you do this because you really could have been a killer.
[00:51:07]  You could have killed me.
[00:51:09]  You really could have.
[00:51:10]  Like, as I sit here to this interview, it's like, thank God you were an entrepreneur because there's another version of you that's just killing you.
[00:51:17]  I just.
[00:51:17]  You love the Jets.
[00:51:18]  I love the Jets.
[00:51:19]  See, it's funny to me because I used to be a tour guide on a double-decker bus before I had any money doing comedy.
[00:51:25]  And there was one guy named Bernie who was this guy.
[00:51:27]  He was this older guy.
[00:51:28]  And he never, he was always like, I don't have any money.
[00:51:30]  I live in the Bronx.
[00:51:31]  It's horrible.
[00:51:32]  And I go, why don't you move?
[00:51:33]  You know, they have tour buses other places.
[00:51:35]  Yankees.
[00:51:35]  And he swear, I swear to God, he went, I like the Yankees.
[00:51:37]  And I'm like, it's insane.
[00:51:40]  This is the only other time you heard somebody say.
[00:51:43]  That's the only other time you've heard it here in this colossus huge building.
[00:51:47]  And then Bernie, the tour guide, is probably progress to soul.
[00:51:50]  I imagine he's dead.
[00:51:50]  Bernie, hope you're alive.
[00:51:51]  If you are, please hit us up.
[00:51:52]  DM us.
[00:51:54]  This is the place, man.
[00:51:56]  It's obviously the Jets, but like, this is the place.
[00:51:59]  Where else?
[00:51:59]  Why?
[00:52:00]  Right.
[00:52:01]  Like, it's got everything.
[00:52:02]  There's so many people.
[00:52:02]  I love people.
[00:52:03]  It's got so many people.
[00:52:05]  It's always crowded.
[00:52:06]  It's always a lot.
[00:52:07]  Austin has tacos that you can eat in the morning.
[00:52:09]  They call them breakfast tacos.
[00:52:10]  We have those two.
[00:52:11]  There's nothing anybody has that we don't have.
[00:52:15]  Well, okay.
[00:52:18]  If you say so, no, of course I know that you're correct.
[00:52:20]  I mean, that's what I'm saying.
[00:52:21]  I'm crazy.
[00:52:21]  I moved to LA because you're an entertainment home.
[00:52:24]  That's where the devil is.
[00:52:25]  Yeah, that's where you want to be.
[00:52:26]  And in my business, you have to get as close as you can to the devil before he eats your soul and then spits you out.
[00:52:33]  Now, that's kind of what our business is.
[00:52:35]  That's what the entertainment business is.

=== Tech Perspectives and Soulful Connections (11:05) ===

[00:52:36]  And did you always want to do it?
[00:52:38]  Meet the devil?
[00:52:39]  No.
[00:52:39]  Yeah.
[00:52:40]  When I was a little kid, I was funny.
[00:52:42]  And my parents, you know, I lived a kind of crazy life.
[00:52:45]  And I did drugs early.
[00:52:47]  And I was precocious.
[00:52:50]  And I liked adults.
[00:52:51]  I liked hearing adult conversations when I was a kid.
[00:52:54]  I liked people that were sarcastic and rude and cynical and all the things that became funny.
[00:53:00]  I like people that were like, smoke cigarettes outside and were like, fuck this.
[00:53:03]  And you were drawn to it.
[00:53:05]  I was drawn to it.
[00:53:06]  I always thought that was kind of funny.
[00:53:07]  the guy at the dinner who would say, you know, oh, you know, like I just remember like hearing like when I was a little kid, like, you know, my mother's friend was outside the house and like, I think she was like smoking a cigarette and she was like, oh, she was talking about somebody.
[00:53:24]  She's like, total piece of shit.
[00:53:26]  And I was like, I want to do that for a living.
[00:53:29]  Like, it was just funny.
[00:53:31]  There was something funny and free about the way people chose to look at the world because there is so much horror and there is so much sadness.
[00:53:39]  And like you said, I'm not a communist, so I know you'll never alleviate all of it.
[00:53:43]  Like all the utopians go, we can alleviate all of it.
[00:53:45]  You won't.
[00:53:46]  So the reality is you do get to a point where you go, if you can look at and frame things in a funny way.
[00:53:52]  You're talking about perspective.
[00:53:53]  Yeah, perspective.
[00:53:54]  I absolutely believe it's funny we got here.
[00:53:57]  I would have been really pissed if we didn't touch on this exact thing.
[00:54:00]  Yeah.
[00:54:00]  I think it's the whole game.
[00:54:02]  I actually think you and I are the same.
[00:54:06]  I mean, that's crazy.
[00:54:07]  Let me explain.
[00:54:08]  I mean, it could be true.
[00:54:09]  I actually think this is why we have a nice kinship.
[00:54:12]  I think Sam Bankman and Freedom are the same.
[00:54:14]  Yeah, fair enough.
[00:54:14]  But I'm telling you, I think this is why we have a little bit of a kinship.
[00:54:17]  Yes.
[00:54:17]  I think the way you just frame that is exactly how I live my life.
[00:54:22]  Right.
[00:54:23]  Which is you do it from a framework of, and that's why I touched on it earlier, of like, hey, it's heavy.
[00:54:29]  Let's decide to look at it like this and smile about it a little bit and maybe think a little bit and it might lead to something.
[00:54:35]  Yes.
[00:54:36]  And I genuinely think the same thing.
[00:54:38]  Like literally everything I believe in is like, okay, and now what?
[00:54:42]  Yeah.
[00:54:43]  Everything is, and now what?
[00:54:44]  Should I come out with a line of V French?
[00:54:46]  Should I have like racist rhino where it's like a rhino who's just like a product of his time.
[00:54:52]  He's a product of his time.
[00:54:53]  He's not.
[00:54:54]  He's 1957.
[00:54:55]  He's not malicious.
[00:54:56]  It was 1957.
[00:54:57]  He just doesn't know what he doesn't know.
[00:55:01]  Do you tend to view the future of technology with all you have very rose-colored glasses, which I like.
[00:55:07]  I think so.
[00:55:07]  But you're probably some dark things coming with the tech.
[00:55:11]  You know, I love when people are like, tech fucked everything up.
[00:55:14]  I'm like, I was like, do you remember Hitler?
[00:55:17]  Like, do you remember?
[00:55:18]  You can imagine Hitler now.
[00:55:20]  Yeah, what about him?
[00:55:21]  It would be probably worse.
[00:55:22]  Would it?
[00:55:23]  Or would have been, or would have he not gotten that far globally?
[00:55:26]  That's a great point.
[00:55:27]  Like, I would argue that there's no shot he got that far because the information would have flowed too fast.
[00:55:36]  What do you think about if Hitler is on Twitter?
[00:55:39]  Do you kick him off?
[00:55:41]  Man, he's fucking awesome.
[00:55:43]  It's a crazy question.
[00:55:45]  Hitler on Twitter.
[00:55:47]  It's a great film, too, if anyone wants to make that.
[00:55:50]  I think the biggest elephant in the room on that is does the government want to regulate tech companies or not?
[00:55:58]  Because people asking tech companies to make subjective calls is fucking impossible.
[00:56:03]  Right.
[00:56:04]  It's hard.
[00:56:05]  It's very difficult.
[00:56:06]  I think that's a very tough thing.
[00:56:07]  As a comic, too, I think it's specifically hard for people that are, you know, that engage in things like satire, sarcasm.
[00:56:23]  Yeah.
[00:56:23]  They engage in like things that, you know, are tougher to read on social media because you don't hear my voice.
[00:56:29]  It's not a live show.
[00:56:31]  You're not, you know, so your irony, all these things kind of can get lost.
[00:56:36]  The lucky thing is that I actually believe, back to my rosy colored glasses, I do think that people understand intent.
[00:56:45]  I would argue that what's really hurting a lot of people who are very quick to cancel is that they're completely tone deaf to intent, thus rendering it very difficult to have it be palpable to human beings.
[00:56:59]  When you're just like, fuck that person, you're like, it's so fucking clear that that person is tongue-in-cheeking this.
[00:57:06]  And so like that's where people really struggle when we take away intent and context from the conversation.
[00:57:14]  That's why we're challenged right now.
[00:57:16]  How much do you travel for your job?
[00:57:17]  Are you all over the place?
[00:57:19]  I mean, before COVID, all over the place.
[00:57:20]  Yeah.
[00:57:21]  We have offices in London and Singapore and LA and Mexico City.
[00:57:25]  Have you slowed down?
[00:57:25]  Yes.
[00:57:26]  Will you ever slow down?
[00:57:27]  Yeah.
[00:57:28]  Okay.
[00:57:28]  Yeah.
[00:57:29]  Look, I'm, I'm simple, bro.
[00:57:31]  Yeah.
[00:57:32]  I'm fucking simple.
[00:57:34]  Like, I'm high energy and I'm pumped and I'm excited and passionate, but like none of this shit fucking matters.
[00:57:41]  Right.
[00:57:41]  Like, honestly.
[00:57:42]  Right.
[00:57:42]  Like, like back to how this fucking show started.
[00:57:46]  Why are you not upset?
[00:57:47]  Because I don't think I mean anything.
[00:57:48]  Right.
[00:57:49]  People are fucking confused out of it.
[00:57:51]  Well, you know what's important.
[00:57:51]  Your family.
[00:57:52]  The end.
[00:57:53]  Right.
[00:57:53]  Exactly.
[00:57:53]  Like, fucking, like, what the fuck?
[00:57:55]  Like, the reason people get upset is because they think there's somebody.
[00:57:58]  And I tell people, like, did you see what happened to Prince?
[00:58:00]  Prince really fucking culturally meant something.
[00:58:03]  Right.
[00:58:04]  Poor guy passes.
[00:58:05]  Yeah.
[00:58:05]  We fucking are all hurt.
[00:58:07]  We give him 24 hours of flowers.
[00:58:09]  And then a week later, the world's spinning.
[00:58:11]  Right.
[00:58:12]  Everyone's walking around getting offended as if they mean something.
[00:58:15]  If you're, if you, a guy like Trump, right?
[00:58:19]  And his company's had some interesting things.
[00:58:21]  Yes.
[00:58:21]  What's your advice to the Trump brand?
[00:58:23]  What does the Trump brand do right now?
[00:58:26]  How do they turn it around?
[00:58:29]  I don't, you know, that's so complicated.
[00:58:31]  It is, but you're the guy to tell them.
[00:58:34]  Oh, maybe somebody.
[00:58:35]  Listen, yes.
[00:58:36]  The opening question I ask everybody is, what would you like to accomplish?
[00:58:39]  They want to keep having money and get the feds off their back.
[00:58:45]  I think that shit has sailed.
[00:58:46]  You know what I mean?
[00:58:47]  Like that goes back.
[00:58:47]  Like every time somebody comes into this office, I'm like, what would you like to happen?
[00:58:52]  Yeah.
[00:58:52]  And I always tell them, like, good marketing just speeds up everyone finding out the truth about your product.
[00:58:58]  Right.
[00:58:59]  Back to when you said social media, right?
[00:59:01]  Like everyone's like, social media.
[00:59:02]  I'm like, social media exposes.
[00:59:05]  It speeds up the exposure of.
[00:59:09]  Interesting.
[00:59:10]  It doesn't change.
[00:59:11]  Everyone's like, it's doing all this shit.
[00:59:13]  The algorithm, the algorithm is responding to you.
[00:59:16]  They want to sell ads.
[00:59:17]  Right.
[00:59:18]  They want to fucking sell ads.
[00:59:20]  Right.
[00:59:20]  No different than Seinfeld.
[00:59:21]  You know why Seinfeld got paid a fucking fortune by MBC?
[00:59:24]  They sold ads.
[00:59:24]  They sold fucking ads.
[00:59:25]  Right.
[00:59:26]  If you're looking at cars all day long and searching cars, you're going to see fucking cars in your content.
[00:59:32]  Right.
[00:59:33]  Like everyone, like they love, people love this.
[00:59:36]  People love this idea of a wizard of Oz.
[00:59:38]  Mark Zuckerberg is not sitting at fucking home being like, oh, Ricky Thompson, the 16-year-old, I'm going to send him some poison now.
[00:59:46]  It's so fucking delusional.
[00:59:48]  Right.
[00:59:49]  You know what you should start talking more about that will land?
[00:59:52]  Instead of people blaming platforms, why don't we start having a more modern conversation about parenting?
[00:59:58]  I believe, by the way, 100%, I'm with you there.
[01:00:02]  Let's go, my man.
[01:00:03]  Let's team.
[01:00:03]  Maybe we should go on a tour.
[01:00:05]  Yes.
[01:00:05]  You and just fucking talk about it.
[01:00:08]  But there are good parents.
[01:00:10]  There's unlimited good parents.
[01:00:11]  Caitlin Jenner and the other one.
[01:00:13]  Because what they did, what's her name?
[01:00:16]  Chris.
[01:00:17]  Because what they did, Chris and Caitlin, is they made their family into a multi-billion dollar business that's cheapened and destroyed and hastened the demise of Earth.
[01:00:30]  That's good.
[01:00:32]  And I think as parents, that's good.
[01:00:33]  You know what's interesting?
[01:00:34]  I think about that the 13-year-olds get plastic surgery.
[01:00:36]  They look nice.
[01:00:37]  I've got a hot take for you on that one.
[01:00:38]  Yeah.
[01:00:39]  Counter take.
[01:00:40]  Yes.
[01:00:40]  It's insane how much those siblings love each other.
[01:00:45]  How about that?
[01:00:46]  How about a curveball?
[01:00:47]  If all of my siblings were billionaires, do you know how much I'd love them?
[01:00:51]  Do you have any idea how much I love them?
[01:00:54]  If our love was commodified, I'm incredibly impressed about that.
[01:01:00]  Like Kim, I've said she should be the governor of California.
[01:01:02]  I think she's a hard worker.
[01:01:04]  Will you be a governor?
[01:01:05]  I think so.
[01:01:05]  I might run for something.
[01:01:06]  Yeah.
[01:01:07]  You might.
[01:01:07]  You're coming to.
[01:01:08]  It might.
[01:01:08]  You see it, right?
[01:01:10]  I should do it.
[01:01:11]  I can't be president, so I'm out.
[01:01:14]  Well, you could help me.
[01:01:16]  I would help you.
[01:01:17]  And we could figure out a way to do it.
[01:01:19]  I'm telling you right now.
[01:01:20]  I just thought the other day, maybe I should run for something.
[01:01:22]  I'm telling you right now.
[01:01:23]  If I don't win, it'd be a great place to be.
[01:01:24]  No different than you texted me and said, hey, social media is dead.
[01:01:27]  Do you want to do the show?
[01:01:27]  And boom, was I there?
[01:01:29]  You were here.
[01:01:30]  I fucking changed my plans.
[01:01:31]  Got here today to do it.
[01:01:33]  In nine years, when you text me and be like, yo, I want to be the governor of Kansas.
[01:01:36]  Yeah.
[01:01:36]  I will be right there.
[01:01:37]  Why do we have to?
[01:01:39]  We have to start at Kansas.
[01:01:40]  Yeah, I want you in Kansas.
[01:01:41]  I want you in Kansas.
[01:01:42]  That's horrible.
[01:01:43]  Why?
[01:01:44]  Because it's rough out there, but then you could kind of do what you want.
[01:01:46]  No, Kansas is awesome.
[01:01:47]  You could kill.
[01:01:48]  Kansas is awesome.
[01:01:49]  You don't think Kansas is awesome?
[01:01:51]  Kansas would make me live in Austin.
[01:01:54]  What do you think is going on with Miami?
[01:01:56]  All right, hold on.
[01:01:57]  I just got to make sure.
[01:01:57]  Okay, go ahead.
[01:01:58]  Miami.
[01:01:59]  I like it down there.
[01:02:00]  It's warm.
[01:02:01]  Koch Paradise, the future of crypto, the crypto hub.
[01:02:04]  What's it going to be?
[01:02:05]  A lot of tech people move to the business.
[01:02:06]  My favorite thing about Miami is that all my New York buddies who moved down there and claimed that they were going to be there post COVID.
[01:02:16]  Are back.
[01:02:17]  Are back.
[01:02:18]  And I want a lot of side bets with all of them.
[01:02:20]  That's interesting.
[01:02:21]  Their delusion that they were actually going to be entertained enough and stimulated enough to actually live there full time was so funny to me that they didn't understand that one day COVID would be over and you actually would have New York back to New York.
[01:02:37]  And I was fascinated by people's delusion on that.
[01:02:40]  Yeah.
[01:02:40]  Miami's a great place to visit.
[01:02:42]  And that's Austin.
[01:02:43]  It's all of them, right?
[01:02:45]  That's just a great.
[01:02:46]  Actually, listen, Austin, Miami, these are great cities, but compared to fucking New York, you can't.
[01:02:51]  It's like dog shit.
[01:02:52]  What do you think of LA?
[01:02:52]  You think it's a dump?
[01:02:53]  I don't love LA, but I love it.
[01:02:57]  I mean, I like, again, if, let me take a big step back.
[01:03:01]  Every place besides Boston, because they have the Patriots, is lovely.
[01:03:05]  Okay.
[01:03:06]  None of them are even in the fucking stratosphere of New York City.
[01:03:09]  Right.
[01:03:10]  None of them are.
[01:03:11]  They're really in the world.
[01:03:12]  It really is.
[01:03:13]  It's the greatest city in the world.
[01:03:14]  So I'm always going to be New Yorked out when I say that.
[01:03:17]  But all these places are awesome.
[01:03:18]  Now, are you a guy that before he goes to bed every night, house a card style, puts on a hoodie and just throws someone in front of a train?
[01:03:25]  No.
[01:03:25]  Just to sleep at night?
[01:03:27]  Do you get off on that kind of energy?
[01:03:29]  Do you sleep easy?
[01:03:30]  Sometimes.
[01:03:31]  I sleep like a, I literally am out like a light.
[01:03:34]  Don't wake up at all.
[01:03:36]  Occasionally, once in the blue moon, need to drink water.
[01:03:39]  Never have to piss.
[01:03:40]  Straight eight hours, seven hours.

=== Timing Advice and Final Gratitude (01:25) ===

[01:03:42]  Yeah.
[01:03:42]  Out.
[01:03:43]  No plans.
[01:03:44]  One last piece of advice.
[01:03:45]  Because by the way, I do, I want to thank you for doing this.
[01:03:47]  I really appreciate it.
[01:03:48]  Happy to do it.
[01:03:49]  One last piece of advice for all of the people right now that have an idea that they really believe in and it hasn't worked.
[01:03:59]  And it hasn't worked yet?
[01:04:00]  It hasn't worked.
[01:04:01]  Understand that there's a couple of things.
[01:04:03]  One, it might be timing.
[01:04:04]  You just might be too early or too late.
[01:04:06]  Timing's a real thing.
[01:04:07]  Two, you might not be good at executing your idea and it might be a good idea to bring a partner in to help you do it.
[01:04:14]  Okay.
[01:04:14]  Right?
[01:04:15]  Like, like it's okay.
[01:04:17]  50% of something meaningful is a fuckload better than 100% of nothing.
[01:04:22]  Right.
[01:04:23]  And so I think humility is like a huge, huge factor in all this.
[01:04:27]  Yeah.
[01:04:28]  And so if it hasn't happened yet, timing, maybe you need more patience or look yourself in the mirror and be like, hey, I'm good at the idea, but I can't fucking make it come true.
[01:04:38]  Let me go find somebody that can.
[01:04:40]  Sam Bankman-Fried, if you're listening, I want you to say that to yourself in the mirror right now because me and Gary Vanderchuk support you and love you.
[01:04:48]  And we want you back.
[01:04:49]  We want you back as soon as possible.
[01:04:52]  Because it's a great idea, whatever it was, the crypto exchange and just come back.
[01:04:58]  We love you.
[01:04:58]  Gary, thank you.
[01:04:59]  Thank you, brother.
[01:05:00]  Great.
[01:05:00]  I appreciate it.
[01:05:00]  Thank you.
[01:05:01]  Thank you, Mama.
[01:05:01]  Thank you.
[01:05:02]  Thank you, buddy.
[01:05:03]  I appreciate it.
[01:05:03]  That was a lot of fun.
[01:05:04]  It was fun.
[01:05:04]  It was a blast.
[01:05:05]  Okay, good.
[01:05:06]  That was fun.
[01:05:06]  It was fun.
[01:05:07]  That's a lot of great shit.