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Sept. 28, 2022 - Depositions & Trials

04:08:12

Watch Live: Alex Jones Defamation Trial: Sandy Hook 'Hoax' Lawsuit - Connecticut Trial Day Ten

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	All right, we are here on the record.
	Week 3, Day 10 of the Lafferty v.
	Jones matter.
	Council could please identify themselves for the record.
	Good morning, Your Honor.
	Chris Maddy, on behalf of the Plans, joined by Alan Sterling and Josh Costco.
	morning um norm pips on behalf of mr jones free speed systems judge i'm changing ties since i managed to spill coffee okay we can give you a minute there to i did see um the plaintiffs filing um Is that something that needs to be addressed now?
	I believe, if the Court's referring to docket number 1000, which is a landmark, then I believe we would be timely to address it now.
	I'm just not sure if Attorney Pat has had an opportunity to review it.
	I've scanned through it.
	I think you've heard an argument on it the other day.
	I think the only reason I say that, Judge, is although it may not come up, certainly because we are having plaintiff testimony here, some of the questions have been aimed at eliciting whether or not Mr. Jones identified the individual plaintiffs by name.
	So I think we can still address that in the final charge, but I'm just trying to figure out if there's a disconnect or if I'm not understanding it.
	Obviously, liability is established.
	There's no need to have evidence that Mr. Jones uttered a specific name, but is it not proper fodder for cross-examination by Mr. Patis with respect to the extent of the damages?
	There may be, for example, I think there may be some relevance to And additional damages...
	Where someone was singled out.
	Right.
	So I think that the problem is that's complicated to draw that line.
	We've drawn it over time.
	And I think what's the concern here is that the jury will misunderstand, although it's a clearly smart jury, it's just because it's complicated as to what that goes to, what could go to, and what if...
	I still feel, unless Attorney Pattis wants to...
	Disabused me of my position that I think it's something that is properly addressed in the final charge instead of now.
	Did you have anything to add, Attorney Pattis?
	No.
	Without awaiting the right to argue.
	I understand.
	And then, Judge, there's a little bit of an ad hoc Can I just ask you first, is it something you have spoken to Attorney Pattis about already?
	No, but I am happy to take a few minutes to do so.
	Do you want to do that now first?
	Sure, sure.
	Although, we do it in the course time.
	Yeah, no, that's fine.
	Hold on.
	I wanted to ask you.
	Did they know?
	Just let me know.
	Thank you.
	In accordance with judicial branch policy, there are no photographs or recordings of any of the proceedings in this courtroom or in the courthouse, for that matter, unless you have been specifically authorized to do so.
	And failure to abide with that order will result in your removal from the courtroom and the confiscation of your device.
	So, please comply.
	Okay.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, is it something that can wait even to the break so that we're not...
	No.
	Okay.
	It has to happen before the cross.
	Okay.
	Well, you don't...
	Do you think that it might be time for the morning break at that point?
	I just hate to...
	Yeah, probably.
	Probably.
	They're so conscientious that I'd like to really take them.
	Okay.
	Let's do it then.
	Okay.
	Sounds like a plan.
	All right.
	so we're ready for the jury.
	And Counsel, at that time you can also remind me of what if anything we're telling the jury about tomorrow afternoon.
	Remember, we were going to wait until today to see what the landscape was for tomorrow afternoon.
	So as soon as you're ready to tell me so that they can make their plans and their sea lives.
	Yes.
	Good morning, good morning, good morning.
	At least you file in a different order.
	Well, not always.
	How's everyone today?
	At least we're not in Florida.
	At least we're safe as out here.
	Council will stipulate that the entire panel has safely returned.
	Yes, Your Honor.
	And on time, as always, we're very grateful.
	Please be seated.
	Make yourselves comfortable.
	You've given out the notebooks already?
	You're quick today, Ron.
	All right.
	Whenever you're ready, Council.
	Thank you very much, Your Honor.
	Let's make sure the jurors are all settled in here.
	Terrific.
	Thank you.
	Good morning, Your Honor.
	Good morning, everybody.
	We call Bill Sherlock.
	Good morning, sir.
	Watch your step.
	Try to celebrate your back.
	Your main standing, if you don't mind.
	I can't do solemnly swear or sincerely affirm that the evidence you should live concerning this case should be the truth.
	I hope you need nothing to do.
	So I'll help you go ahead or compound your project.
	I do.
	Thank you.
	You may be seated.
	I just need you to state your name, slowly spelling your last name for the record, and the state and county that you have.
	My name is William Sherlock.
	That's S-H-E-R-L-A-C-H. And I live in Fairfield County, Connecticut.
	Thank you, Mr. Ferraro.
	You may inquire whenever you're ready.
	Hi, Bill.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Bill, can you tell us You were married at one point to a woman named Mary, is that right?
	Right, Mary Joy Green Sherlock.
	Okay.
	And did Mary die in the Sandy Hook shootings?
	Yes, Mary was one of the first two people murdered that morning.
	Okay.
	You've seen some of the testimony, I think, is that right?
	Correct.
	So you know that we'd like you to explain your background in the jury, let the jury get to know whether your background and the type of person you are.
	So could you start by telling us your date of birth?
	Sorry.
	I'm 65, that's fine.
	I was born April 23rd, 1957 in New Rochelle, New York.
	First couple of years, lived in a one-bedroom apartment with my parents in East Chester, New York.
	Second grade, moved to a little town by the name of Pauling, New York.
	It's basically over the border from New Milford, Connecticut, and essentially where I grew up.
	Okay.
	And tell us a little more about the family, your parents, your siblings, things like that.
	I had two brothers.
	I was the eldest.
	My brother, Bob, about 18 months younger than I am.
	Had a youngest brother, Matthew, who was seven years younger than I am.
	Matt had special needs.
	He was Down syndrome and unfortunately passed several years ago.
	My parents married to each other for all time.
	My father was an elementary school principal in Pauling, New York.
	My mom was sort of a stay-at-home mom, but also did a little bit in real estate and served on many different boards for the town.
	And can you tell the jury about your education?
	Sure.
	I went to Pauline Public Schools, a small district, went there second grade through twelfth grade, graduated in 1975. I did an additional year of secondary school at a prep school called the Petty School down in Heightstown, New Jersey.
	I did a PG year there.
	Graduated there in 76 and entered State University of New York at Cortland in the fall of 76 and got out on time.
	Was out in March or May of 80 from Cortland.
	Got early release from school?
	Well compared to some of my contemporaries, yeah.
	And so did you earn a degree from your schooling?
	Yeah, I never remembered BA or DS, but I graduated as an economics major.
	Okay.
	Now, can you tell us when and the circumstances of when you first met or laid eyes on Mary?
	Very vividly, yes.
	December 11, 1976, the campus sponsored, I believe at that point in time, again, it was 76. They still, I think, called it a Christmas party, or they might have called it a holiday party.
	But anyway, it was December 11, 1976. I was there with some of my friends for all the obvious reasons.
	Lower price ticket and all the food you could eat in an open bar until they ran out.
	So we were there.
	And I was sitting next to a friend and teammate of mine.
	And we're just sitting there having a good time.
	People were coming up the stairs because it was on the second floor, and this girl comes up the stairs in a green dress.
	And I went, hey, John, nice-looking girl over there.
	He goes, oh, that's Mary Green.
	I said, you know her?
	He goes, yeah, I went to school with her in high school.
	I said, come on, you've got to introduce me.
	He goes, you don't have a shot.
	He goes, no way.
	But he did.
	He introduced us, and we had a nice conversation through the course of the night.
	I thought it went pretty well.
	Mary and I had to help one of her friends back to the dorm room after the event.
	It was December's...
	Pardon me?
	Is this the open bar effect?
	Yeah.
	Well, I can't attest, would be hearsay, to tell you how much she had to drink, but the...
	Yeah, she needed some help getting home, because A, she only had one shoe, and it's December in Central New York, so it's cold.
	So we got her back and said goodbye, and I'm like, okay, we'll see what happens.
	So, interestingly enough, at that time I had contacts.
	So the next day, because it's getting toward finals, and I did study a little bit, The lower level, there was two towers and they were joined, and the lower level of that joining structure had at one time been a cafeteria, but they turned into like a study area.
	So I'm heading over there, and Mary's coming from the other direction, from the other tower, and I got this big smile on my face, and I'm looking at her, and I'm looking at her, and I'm looking at her, and I'm looking at her, and she walks right by me.
	And I'm like, John was right.
	Yeah, the quarterback is always right.
	And so I turn around and I said, Mary, and she turns around with the glasses on at that point in time.
	And it moved forward from there.
	You overcame the high burden ahead of you?
	Yeah, because Mary was a year older than I was.
	And I did the extra year before going into college, so I was a freshman, she was a junior.
	So we had a couple years together on campus, and then a couple years together where she had gone off and started her career as it may be at that point in time, and sort of back and forth between Cortland and Vestal, New York, which is outside of Binghamton, so it's like 30 miles away.
	Okay, so we can infer that things progressed to the point of a courtship and a marriage?
	Yeah, things went pretty well.
	Things went pretty well.
	What happened to the shoe?
	I have no recollection of what happened to the shoe.
	Okay, kind of left us hanging from that.
	So can you tell the jury about, I mean, you spoke about Mary, I take it you were physically attracted to her, that's why initially?
	She caught my eye coming up the stairs in a green dress, yeah.
	Alright, that's honest.
	And can you tell the jury about what was it about Mary that attracted you to her, or her to you, right?
	Her to me?
	I still have questions about that.
	Can you tell us the type of person Mary was when you met her?
	What attracted me to Mary was that she was bright, intelligent, witty, Very well founded, very stable in terms of who she was, what she was looking to do, where she wanted to go.
	I mean, there was a determination there that, when combined with the intellectual aspect of it, was a pretty nice package.
	Okay.
	And what do you think she saw in you?
	Your humility aside.
	Well, you know, I played football.
	I was hanging out with a bunch of other guys.
	She was a football fan.
	She was a big Miami Dolphins fan.
	So that probably didn't hurt.
	But I think just the conversations that we had and just me being myself and not putting on any kind of airs, I think that must have been it because it wasn't a whole lot after that.
	Well, is that something that you value in people, authenticity?
	Yes, very much so.
	Neither of us would suffer fools, and neither of us would hopefully not put on any kind of airs as to who we are or what we're about.
	And can you tell the jury you got married to Mary at some point?
	Yes, we got married in April of 1981. So, you know, back in those days, people got married at a lot younger age than they tend to today.
	How old were you?
	Again, with the math.
	So I was 24. And Ms. McNamara was 25?
	She was 25. And now, where were you and Mary in terms of your education or your careers?
	Well, Mary graduated with honors.
	With honors.
	I got out.
	You can be proud of that.
	I got out, and we were contemplating what's going to happen with careers, and she had started working for, I think they used to call it the Binghamton Psychiatric Hospital.
	It's probably changed names at this point in time.
	I went home.
	I didn't have any kind of money to speak of, so I went home and my best friend's dad was an electrical contractor, so I always was able to work for him.
	So anytime I was home, I had hours that I could work with the electrician.
	And I also helped volunteer coach for the local high school football team.
	So they were more than happy to have me come in and assist them.
	So we did that for the first fall.
	And I was, through that time, job hunting.
	So, you know, the flexibility of working for a friend and a volunteer coach job, the hours were suitable for me to make trips and do interviews and, you know, look to find a real job.
	And you said Mary went to the Binghamton Psychiatric Hospital?
	Yeah, she started out as an aide.
	I mean, you know, ground floor type of stuff.
	You know, she had gotten out with a degree in psychology.
	But obviously, in order to do what she wanted to do long term, it would take more than that.
	Can you tell the jury what were Mary's goals long term from a professional standpoint?
	I don't know if she honed in on school psychologists initially, but it was certainly going to be something in the helping profession.
	She indeed loved to help people in any way that she could.
	So it would be something, helping people get through problems in their days, problems in their life.
	Very much looking to help people in that regard.
	So more along the lines of mental health rather than physical health?
	Yeah, for sure.
	Not really any kind of medical...
	I mean, I don't think she wanted to be...
	She didn't want to be like a psychiatrist, which would be a doctor.
	Got it.
	More in the psychologist area.
	All right.
	And so you and Mary are living in generally what we would consider upstate New York?
	No.
	We were seeing each other back and forth on weekends.
	I went and applied for a job at a major wire house brokerage firm in Stanford, and I started working there in October of 1981, so relatively quickly.
	We ended up renting the bottom of the duplex in the cove section of Stanford for a lofty $400 a month.
	She transferred within the New York State system to Tarrytown in a similar type of facility, but she was able to stay within the state.
	I see.
	So you were living on this first floor of this duplex and together, and the commute wasn't horrific for her?
	No.
	Stanford to Tarrytown can be a bit of a bear from time to time, but I was working right in Stanford, but long hours and studying for my exams and things that I would need to pursue my profession.
	And you guys are still in your mid-20s?
	Correct.
	Okay.
	And tell us, bring us up to the The point in time when you and Mary have children, or decide to have children?
	Mary was getting tired of the commute to Tarrytown, so she was considering looking a little bit more local.
	We were thinking about starting a family.
	I had just started my actual career as a financial advisor.
	So it was certainly our peanut butter and jelly years, as we call them.
	Well, we just decided that, you know, one way or the other, we'd make ends meet, and if I had to work three jobs, I'd work three jobs.
	But we felt it was time to start a family and start looking to buy a house.
	Now, did Mary continue her education during this time period that you're...
	No, not originally.
	We moved to Trumbull, Connecticut, bought a house there.
	Shortly thereafter, Mary got pregnant, and she was a stay-at-home mom for my eldest daughter, Maura.
	And then as time went on, we had a second child.
	My career continued to grow, and she decided she needed to go back for her master's in, I believe, fifth year, which she did do at Southern Connecticut.
	We worked very well as a team.
	So here I am trying to grow my business, and she's trying to go back for school, so she had school on Wednesday nights.
	So my calendar, Wednesdays after 5 o'clock, I had to be home.
	And she would go off and drive up to New Haven for her studies.
	Okay, and you said you had, excuse me, your first child was a daughter, Maura?
	Maura.
	And you said you had a second child?
	Yeah, we had Maura in 84 and we had Katie in 87. And...
	How is it?
	Can you take us through how Mary ended up working at the Sandy Hook Elementary School?
	Yeah, it was a progression of things, and I don't know if I'll have it all.
	I could have boned up on this a little bit, but I didn't.
	She started out working part-time.
	She worked part-time in the city of New Haven, and then she worked part-time, I believe it was in Reading.
	As a school psychologist or helping schools as a school psychologist.
	Kept applying for jobs.
	Applied for the job at Sandy Hook.
	Loved the principal at that point in time.
	Thought it was a great fit and they offered the job so she took it and she was there for 18 years.
	Had she ever worked in any other school system?
	Part-time in Reading and part-time in New Haven.
	But no full-time jobs?
	No.
	Up until Sandy Hook?
	No.
	And was the principal at that time Don Hawksbrown or was a previous principal?
	No, I believe his name, was it Ron Vitarelli I think was his name?
	I'm not 100% sure with that.
	Okay.
	All right.
	The...
	And in terms of her work at Sandy Hook, did she work for the entire school system or just Sandy Hook Elementary School?
	What can you tell us about that?
	As far as I know, she had enough work to do in the Sandy Hook Elementary School itself.
	And can you tell us about the degree to which Mary either loved or hated her job?
	She was all in.
	She was all in.
	What do you mean by that?
	She would do anything she could to make sure that the kids would get the services that they needed and in the right, I guess you would say, proportionality.
	How many times would I recommend for services for a student?
	And with all due respect to Erica Lafferty, she thought it was her school.
	So, you know, she took very well, she took solid ownership of that school relative to the kids.
	And it was all about the kids.
	So her ideal day would be working with kids the entire time she was there, as opposed to paperwork and reports and everything else.
	And parents?
	No, she was fine with that.
	She was fine with that because I think they got the sense that You know, there was no stonewalling.
	It was just, okay, what do we need to do for your son or daughter to get them the appropriate help?
	And so she was dealing for 18 years with elementary school children who had some needs, some psychological needs, or some adjustment needs.
	Well, that precludes the idea that they did the testing and the services were warranted.
	So she would do testing, follow-ups, parent-teacher conferences, PPTs or whatever they're called, to make sure that the children were on the track that they were supposed to be in terms of services.
	Okay.
	And...
	Do you know whether or not Mary had plans for the future prior to December 14, 2012?
	Oh, most definitely.
	Can you tell the jury about that?
	Well, it was always next year I'm going to retire, or grandbabies, whichever comes first.
	Granbury is a Trump retirement.
	Oh yeah, that would have been the drop date.
	Two weeks notice after that?
	Well, she would have been more than two weeks notice.
	I mean, we'd have nine months advance notice, so yes.
	But that was definitely, that was the hard stop right there.
	Okay.
	So she had been making some plans for her, either her retirement and her, did she have some kind of assumption that she'd be a grandma someday?
	Oh yeah, very much so.
	And can you tell us about what was her relationship like with your daughters?
	As solid as solid could be.
	You know, that whole empathy psychologist looking for the signs and they bonded, you know, extremely well.
	I might come across as not that empathetic, a little bit more of a hard you-know-what, but it worked with the combination of the two of us.
	So we both had very strong relationships with our daughters, sort of marry in a myriad of directions, me pretty much in one or two others.
	And I've neglected to ask you about your career at the time in December of 2012. Can you give us a point about that?
	At that point in time, I was working for a different major wire house in Fairfield, Connecticut at the time of 12-14.
	And in what capacity?
	A financial advisor.
	And as a financial advisor who built a profession, was your integrity and credibility important to you?
	That is sacrosent, yes.
	I mean, that's...
	If I say something, you know, that's...
	Yeah, I mean, that's...
	I won't over-promise something.
	I mean, it's, yeah, your word is, you know, you violate that in our business.
	And if you look at the way things prior to all computers, everything was done verbally.
	So if we were on the floor and you wanted to buy something and I wanted to sell it to you, it was a verbal commitment and that was done.
	So it's a little different today, but I'm a little old school in that respect.
	Speaking of which, how is your, do you consider yourself computer literate or...
	Well, I was married for 31 years quite nicely, so I'm coachable.
	If you lead me in the right direction, I can do kind of a rudimentary spreadsheet, but I might need some help.
	Do you know what a tag is or a like is?
	Well, I don't know how to, but I do know what a tag and a like is.
	Okay.
	Do you have an active social media presence?
	I have a Facebook page that I basically took over from Mary because I didn't have to build it or do it.
	I just assumed it.
	Can we show a picture of Mary to the jury?
	A couple pictures?
	Okay.
	Rhonda would move to introduce, we could show 542 to 544. Let's show 543 first.
	this is the glamour shot yeah this this was the portrait or whatever from the my older daughter's wedding day So she was fortunate enough to be able to see one of her daughters get married.
	And which daughter was that?
	This would be Maura, my oldest.
	She's 38 now.
	And when was Maura's wedding?
	What year?
	2010. And let's show a slightly different look.
	542. Who is that man?
	It's not me.
	This actually, I believe, is the very last picture I have of Mary.
	This was taken...
	This is on the playing field at the college we attended.
	This was the final home game of the year against our arch rival at the college.
	A former teammate, a good friend of mine, is the coach, so we had field passes.
	It was senior day, and one of the players' moms didn't show up, so Mac had an extra rose, gave it to Mary.
	Mary came over to the sideline, and that's a very terrible mascot that I don't know if they're still...
	I think they're still using it.
	It could be better.
	So this was November of 12, probably the second week.
	That game usually falls the second weekend in November.
	So this would have been about...
	About a month before the shooting.
	So I do believe this is the very last picture.
	School colors, obviously, red and white.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, Bill.
	We want to ask you just to bring us to the Sherlock household and plans.
	Excuse me.
	Did you have, whether you had plans heading into the weekend of December 14th, 2012?
	Yeah.
	We had plans that weekend to go with my two business partners, Sal's wife and Rob's significant other.
	We were going to Essex for the weekend.
	I asked Mary if she could take the whole day off, and she said she couldn't because she had a couple things she had to take care of in the morning.
	The night before, we don't do this any longer, we used to have a bunch of people, a bunch of guys would get together and go into New York around holiday time.
	Anywhere from 10 to 20 of us.
	And we'd go in, stop at the Roosevelt Hotel for drinks because it's right out the back side of Grand Central.
	Then we'd go out and go to a restaurant.
	Have a nice dinner, laugh, have a good time, and then head home.
	So I was out kind of late the night before, and I had hoped for Mary to take the day off, but that wasn't going to happen.
	She had a couple things to do, and so that's what happened.
	Was she going to have meetings with kids who are undergoing some kind of troubles or crisis?
	I'm not privy to what the actual meeting was about, but it was one of those things where, okay, if you say you have a couple things to take care of, then that's what we'll do.
	So I was going to go into work for half a day, and we were going to come home and leave around noontime or so.
	Probably the most interesting thing that morning is that most mornings are very busy.
	She's trying to get out to work, I'm trying to get out to work.
	The kids were out of the house at that point in time, so it was just the two of us.
	And that particular morning, I was in no rush to really get to the office.
	And as I'm heading out of the kitchen, we gave each other a big hug and a kiss.
	And I left for work.
	And I can't think of a better way to, if it had to go that way, I can't think of a better way.
	Because that's not usually what happens in the morning.
	Typically, I'm sure most people, it's very quick, you know, grab a cup of coffee in the to-go cup and out to work.
	But not that morning.
	Not that morning.
	You know, you said something that you weren't privy to what Mary did.
	Mary was a psychologist and her communications were confidential with her.
	Sure, yeah, absolutely.
	And in order to do that job, does a person, did she have, what did you say about her integrity and her credibility as a person?
	You know, very organized, very strict as to what the do's and don'ts are.
	So we might talk in the evening about a situation, but it's just the situation.
	No names, no anything else.
	Just, you know, this is what happened, what you do today.
	And it would be...
	The scenario would play out, but no details, no references to anyone.
	But that's the way it was with Mary.
	I mean, she had three different color highlighters in her calendar for different things.
	Because it was a really tight day when she's at school, because you only have so much time, so you can only allot so much per meeting.
	So it was pretty tight, tightly scheduled.
	The, obviously there came a time when you heard something happened at the school.
	I was in the office and working.
	Sorry, were you now physically located in Trumbull?
	In Fairfield.
	So I was on the post road in Fairfield.
	My partner, Sal, comes in and says, look, Joan just called and said there's a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
	At that point in time, the news report at that point in time, because it was very early, said something about it.
	They thought it was a marital problem.
	So I tried calling Mary.
	No answer.
	Call.
	No answer.
	No answer.
	Jump on the computer to see what's going on.
	And things were obscure enough that I said, okay, I have to go.
	So I ran out of the office, jumped in the car.
	95, got on the Route 258 connector.
	As I'm coming on, there's two ambulances coming on from coming south on 95 at a very high rate of speed, so I just got in behind them and were tearing up 25. I don't know how fast we were going.
	As fast as they were going, I was going.
	And then I got stopped at a light or something and I had only actually been to San Diego Elementary School once and it was in the middle of summer.
	Because typically I leave the house first.
	I'm home last.
	And it's probably from Fairfield, it's probably half an hour to 35 minute ride with no traffic.
	So I never really went up there.
	So I didn't really have a...
	I generally knew where the school was.
	So I got in the car, drove as fast as I could.
	I'm getting down into the little hamlet of Sandy Hook itself.
	And now I know I'm in the right spot because it's just a mess of cars and lights and everything else.
	So I just pulled off on a side road and parked the car and I ran the rest of the way into the firehouse We've heard the scene at the firehouse described by Carly Soto Parisi de Did you see Carly?
	I don't believe I saw that testimony.
	Sorry, but do you recall seeing Carly at the firehouse or you didn't know her?
	I mean, I only came to know later that that's one of the pictures that you used in evidence that that was her.
	I did not know anybody really before the shooting.
	And obviously you learned at some point that Mary was one of the Was killed.
	She was murdered in the shooting.
	Well, I walked into the firehouse, and it was chaotic, to say the least.
	And I'm looking around.
	I don't see Mary.
	And again, I don't really know anybody there.
	But there was someone came at me.
	They had a lanyard on.
	And I recognized the name, because it was another Trumbull person that worked in the school.
	And I said, hi, I'm Bill Sherlock.
	I'm Mary's husband.
	Have you seen her?
	And evidently she was in the meeting room with my wife when this all happened.
	And she said, oh my God, Bill.
	She said, there has been a shooting.
	Dawn, Mary, and the lead teacher, I forget her name, left the room.
	And only the lead teacher came back.
	So at that point in time, I knew this was going to have a terrible, terrible ending to it.
	You hold out all hope against hope.
	So I was probably one of those people that were circling through the firehouse just looking and hoping that somebody made a mistake.
	But as time went on, I was able to verify the fact that Mary and Dawn were the two that did not make it back into the meeting room that morning.
	Is it your understanding that Mary left the office to confront the shooter?
	My understanding is that the three of them, Dawn first, Mary, and then the lead teacher, I went out to see what was going on in the lobby.
	The order of which happened, I mean, who knows?
	But I do know that Mary was shot five times.
	Any of each, there were two shots, either of which would have been fatal basically instantly.
	When did you go to the school this summer that you went to the school as well?
	We were coming back from someplace and it's located up near Interstate 84 where we would get off at the Route 34 exit and take back roads into Trumbull.
	And a little sarcastic, she said, you know, you've never seen my school.
	Can we at least take a run through the driveway?
	And I said, okay, fine, you know.
	Not a problem.
	Was she proud of the school that she worked at?
	Very much so, yeah.
	Very much so.
	She could not speak highly enough about the faculty and staff at Sandy Hook.
	Was it in disarray or did it look anything like a toxic waste dump or cutout or fake scene?
	Not the day I drove through it.
	Not the day I went in to look at the school after they had closed things up and offered to have the victims walk through the school weeks after the shooting.
	No, certainly not.
	Was the school ever closed down for any length of time during Mary's 18 years?
	No, not at all.
	Now, did there come a time, Bill, when you got Well, first of all, have you ever heard of this Alex Jones guy?
	No.
	Have you ever heard of Infowars?
	No.
	Okay.
	And do you have any idea what he was up to while you were racing to the You have to realize I had no social media presence whatsoever.
	I am a dinosaur when it comes to technology.
	I had an email address, but I never used it.
	I didn't know how.
	In fact, there was an old company that doesn't even exist anymore.
	I had no Facebook.
	I don't tweet.
	I don't Instagram.
	None of that.
	I couldn't even tell you how to do it.
	So I had no idea anything relative to social media.
	And you had no other experience with Willitron.
	Did there come a time, Bill?
	Well, can you tell us a little bit about...
	Oh, I'm sorry, it's Earthlink.
	Oh.
	That's the old company that...
	Yeah, that's very dated.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	Can you just tell us the plan's obviously up for obvious reasons.
	Your weekend ended up being something else.
	Can you just generally talk about the week or so after the shooting?
	Well, once you've all heard the meeting in the back room of the firehouse when the governor Basically made his pronouncement.
	Just something no one ever wants to live through.
	The reaction in that room, you just never, ever want to see anything like that or hear anything like that.
	And at that point in time, my cell phone was...
	I did have a cell phone.
	The battery was draining because people were checking in with me.
	My daughters, they had started their way to come up because I told them that it didn't look good.
	And then I was like, I got to go home.
	I got to be there for the girls when they get home.
	So by that time, my two work partners, Rob and Sal, had somehow, they're in sales, they got themselves through and into the firehouse somehow.
	And they said, all right, come on, we'll get you home.
	And, you know, so they came together.
	So one of them drove my car with me in it home.
	And then, you know, the fog sets in.
	It's the people stopping over, people bringing in, you know, food, people bringing in cases of wine.
	I mean, just non-stop people coming in.
	That Friday afternoon, Friday evening.
	In fact, the guy who introduced me to Mary, who lived up in the Binghamton area, he and another friend of mine, another former teammate, showed up at my doorstep that night.
	And that's a four-and-a-half to five-hour ride.
	I tried to convince them to stag, and they turned around, and they went right back that same night.
	So it was kind of a fog, and then the next day was sort of the same, and all the while, you know, the media trucks were pulling up in front, and people are camping out in your driveway and knocking on your door.
	Fortunately, we had our trooper liaison there that was assigned to us, and he was able to Dissuade them, and the local PD was telling them they couldn't keep their stuff on the street, so they did actually a fairly decent job about letting us have as much privacy as we could achieve.
	And did there come a time, I know you're a social media dinosaur, sounds like you've proven that.
	I'm not proud of it, but it's just the way it is.
	Did there come a time though, Bill, in all seriousness, that you became aware of the lies related to Sandy folk?
	I stumbled into it as I was trying to get news as to what was going on.
	I mean, as far as we were concerned, it was sort of an open and shut case relative to what was going on.
	But I got on the internet and tried to just find out what was going on.
	And different links would take you to certain places.
	You know, that's when you started to see things that weren't right, didn't seem right.
	I mean, not to pick on Robbie.
	We've seen that video.
	The video of, I think the guy's name was Dr. Carver, the ME, at his news conference.
	They doctored that a little bit, saying that, you know, why is this happening in this particular order?
	Look at him, he's laughing.
	You know, you started to see these distortions of what I knew to be true.
	Having been there and been a little bit on the inside of what was going on.
	And then you start to get deeper and deeper into it because you'll see something that says something that you know is not true.
	And then it started from various areas that this is all a hoax.
	It's not, you know, Mary didn't exist.
	Bill, you know, their name isn't Sherlock.
	You know, for somehow they're saying Mary didn't even have credentials to be a school psychologist.
	I mean, there's just all sorts of stuff there to sort of run through, just really in order to protect Mary and her name and her reputation, as well as to make sure that I stayed in front of this relative to my daughter's finding out about any of this stuff.
	Let's please get back to your becoming aware of this concept that Mary didn't exist.
	And you were talking about her authenticity and her integrity and her job and just the type of person she was.
	What was it like to know that Well, did you know how many people were out there?
	No.
	Not a clue.
	Did you know what Alex Jones' reach was?
	At the time?
	At the time you started learning about this?
	Yes, thank you.
	Sorry, Bill.
	As of December 2012, I had no idea.
	About most anything relative to websites and stuff like that.
	And when you started, the time period in which you began to hear about Mary not having existed, about you being some other person, about Sandy Hook Not happening and being part of a government hoax.
	In other words, when the first time is that you got exposed to Alex Jones' lies?
	Well, let me rephrase.
	What was the first time that you got exposed to the lies?
	I would say within the first four or five weeks of the shooting.
	Would you mind, Bill, I know you're a football player, tough guy, but would you mind explaining to the jury as best, in your way, what is it like but would you mind explaining to the jury as best, in your way, what is it like to have lost your wife?
	We had the kids, got them to school, got them educated.
	They're working.
	They're successful.
	They're hard workers, just like their mom and dad.
	And you start to think about the future.
	You know, you've played by the rules.
	You've done everything by the book in terms of getting to where you are.
	And then all of a sudden, it's just gone.
	The kids were home.
	Just to give you an example, I mean, Kids were home and, you know, got through Saturday, and the body's amazing what it does to help you survive these kind of times.
	And we were going to go to church Sunday morning.
	And at that point in time, it was just me, my two daughters, and my son-in-law in the house, because we didn't have any overnight guests.
	And I woke up, and I looked across the bed.
	Nobody was there.
	And I was like...
	This is how it's going to be.
	And I lost it.
	Totally lost it.
	Kids came running in, jumped in, in bed, hugging, kissing, stuff like that.
	And at that point in time, I vowed that that would be the last time I would lose it in front of them.
	My daughter, my younger daughter, was halfway through her doctorate program in chemistry at Georgetown.
	And I know that, you know, I know that she would drop it and go with masters instead of her PhD to come home and make sure I was alright.
	And I know if I let that happen, Mary would kick my butt for the rest of my life.
	So I determined that was not what, that's not going to happen again.
	And then you try to counsel your kids as to, you know, what's going on.
	And I just counsel them as I've counseled other people that have been through these type of things just to keep your finish line short.
	You know, it could be just getting out of bed in the morning.
	If you get out of bed, make it so you don't jump back in.
	Try to make it to lunch.
	Try to make it to dinner.
	Try to make it the next hour.
	Because that forever That forever thing?
	Totally incomprehensible.
	And that's what I realized that Sunday morning.
	All those plans, everything you worked for, just evaporates.
	As I said once before, it's like one of those big pink erasers you had in elementary school.
	It's just one.
	It sounds like, Bill, that you kept Mary alive in your thoughts.
	Like you said, she'd be pissed at you if you...
	Yeah, well, you know, I made a comment once in an interview for the college bulletin that, you know, I married up.
	My father didn't appreciate that.
	I think she married up.
	Well, anyway, I definitely married up, and I learned a lot.
	And I'm sure Mary learned a lot from me.
	And, you know, the sum of the parts were greater than the whole.
	So I learned a lot from her.
	And was it comforting to you in the immediate aftermath of losing Mary to recall her, to think about her, to think about what you would like you to be doing?
	Yeah, because I thought I had no other choice.
	I mean, what else was I going to do?
	I just couldn't sit there and do nothing.
	And again, you know, at that point in time, as the others have testified, you know, these monies and donations start coming in, and it's like, okay, you know, on top of everything else, what are we going to do with this?
	And because of my job, I knew of the Fairfield County Community Foundation, and fortunately, we didn't need the monies.
	So we said, okay, we're going to start sending the money to them.
	And eventually we put together what's called Mary's Fund, and we directed all those monies there.
	We held seven or eight golf tournaments where we raised money.
	And the tagline on the logo is continuing her work, and that's what we're doing.
	We've made almost $280,000 of contributions to a program called Teen Talk.
	Teen Talk is run by kids in crisis out of Greenwich, and they actually place counselors in middle schools and high schools that are employees of Teen Talk or kids in crisis.
	So that's why all they have to do is counsel kids and walk the hallways, look for kids that are isolated, look for kids that are being bullied, look for kids that are having trouble.
	They're not employees of the school, but they are mandated reporters.
	But they don't do lunch duty.
	They don't do bus duty.
	They're just there for the kids.
	So this was sort of a fastball down the middle.
	And FCCF will actually vet.
	You know, they vet it.
	That's how we came up with them.
	People apply for grants.
	They vet them.
	I didn't have to come up with a board.
	I didn't have to come up with a lawyer, an attorney, an accountant.
	I didn't have to do any of that.
	I pay them to do that.
	But then I can focus my efforts on raising the money, getting it to them, and getting it to where we feel it's best needed.
	And with the size of it now, it'll go on in perpetuity, so my kids will have to step up after I'm gone and direct it, and then my granddaughters will have to step up after they're gone.
	So this will go on forever.
	And is this your way and your family's way of keeping Mary's legacy or identity alive?
	Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
	That you shouldn't be forgotten.
	That one person can make a difference.
	My older daughter even started a Mary's Fund of Southern New Jersey.
	And, you know, they'll raise money and then they turn around and spend it all.
	They give it out in scholarships and to other, you know, nonprofits that are in the same sort of field that they're looking to help out.
	You talked, Bill, about becoming exposed to the lies that Mary didn't exist, that you and the families were actors.
	And I'm wondering how you confront something like that when you know very well that she did exist and that she mattered.
	Can you just give us a flavor of that?
	I mean, at first, I had so many things on my table.
	I would just dismiss it.
	But then it didn't go away.
	And it would start to build.
	And not just on me, but on others.
	I mean, I was a little fortunate in the fact that I wasn't in Newtown.
	So I physically wasn't present in Newtown.
	I lived in Trumbull.
	I didn't have my own social network.
	Mary had hers.
	So I was a little insulated relative to maybe some of the others.
	But after dismissing a few and then starting to see more and more of the same and others, I did start to follow it a little bit more closely.
	So there were any myriad number of websites or whatever that were carrying on these things.
	And in terms of your own credibility and your...
	You started talking about hearing some things about you being an imposter or somebody else.
	Can you just describe those types of things to the jury?
	One of the...
	And again, I had no idea what website it was.
	It was not Alex Jones.
	We were not the Sherlock's.
	We were the Goldberg's.
	And I forget how they spelled the last part of the name.
	And we lived in Florida, and my daughters were Goldbergs, and they lived in Florida.
	And that I was part of some financial cabal that was manipulating the overnight rates in Great Britain.
	And it got to the point where they were actually saying that I was somehow involved with the shooter's father in terms of this cabal.
	I mean, it was just ridiculous.
	You know, again, being in the business I'm in, you know, you don't want that out there.
	I mean, I knew it was crazy, but the general public might not know it was crazy.
	And you talked about your daughters and Mary's dream of becoming a grandmother.
	Did there come a time when you had grandkids?
	Oh, yeah.
	We had Mora.
	Mora was born in...
	Maura's born in, let's see, 20. Again, I'm bad with the math here, but she was born in 84. Oh, no, my granddaughters.
	My granddaughters, I'm sorry.
	They're six and three.
	Maura has two daughters.
	They're six and three.
	2019 and 2021 were the birthdates.
	And, Bill, You've established that you're not a big social media presence.
	Did there come a time that you became concerned about your safety and the safety of your daughters and grandkids?
	Yeah.
	There was enough vitriol out there that I was concerned that Well, let's put it this way.
	Okay, so let's move it back a little bit.
	The major crime unit from the state police, we had meetings with them periodically.
	And at the end of the meetings, they would always tell us, you know, be on guard, be careful about what you do, make sure you know where you are, what's going on.
	Our liaison from the state police, he also Be careful.
	Be aware of what's going on.
	And he even told my two daughters to contact their local police departments to make sure that they knew what the situation was, just in case.
	So, yeah, I mean, if that's what they're telling me, they're the professionals.
	I have to, you know, that just added, you know, more sustenance to my thought.
	And the situation that you were warned about, is the situation a segment of the community not...
	Is the situation you're referring to the segment of this population that follows these lies?
	Yeah, and the fact that it only takes one to act or be incited by these lies to...
	I mean, even if they just confront my I don't want that to happen.
	I don't want them being scared.
	So yeah, I'm overly concerned about them and my granddaughters, obviously.
	Were there any events that occurred that increased your degree of concern about safety for your family?
	Not to you personally, but that you...
	Well, no, I mean, it's, again, it can come from anywhere.
	You actually moved to strike in a response to the strike.
	Overruled.
	I'll give you an example then.
	The summer after the shooting, I was invited to play in the Pro-Am golf tournament for the Dicks Open up in Endicott, New York.
	It's kind of nice, you know, you've got the little badge on so you can go certain places and you're what they call inside the ropes where they keep the spectators out and everything else.
	And again, one of the two guys that came down the night of the shooting was my caddy.
	We're on the practice green and we said, let's go grab something to eat and get some lunch before we start.
	And as I'm exiting the little shoot that they have coming out of the putting green, I see this fast movement, and I look, and there's this guy coming at me.
	And he's coming to me.
	He's not going anywhere else.
	He's coming to me.
	And for that two seconds, I'm like, okay, this is it.
	This is game on.
	And I mean, I know I have a buddy next to me.
	Something could happen here.
	And then the guy whips out a pad and a pen.
	And I'm like...
	My heart's racing because I thought that this was going to be some sort of confrontation.
	I guess I looked old enough that I thought I could be on the senior tour.
	He certainly didn't watch me practice.
	But anyway, that kind of thing.
	Were you a suspicious guy before?
	No, I just, I went bumbling and stumbling through a lot.
	I mean, you know, no, not at all.
	And it's been constant.
	I mean, that never leaves me at this point in time.
	Always aware of what's going on around me.
	Introduce myself when I'm out and about with people that I don't really know, and it's just my first name.
	I mean, my antennas were up during opening arguments here.
	If you remember, we had two marshals come in here, confer, and went to the middle door, confer, came to the back, went over to their counterparts over here, and I'm like, okay, what's going on?
	And it ended up being just a recording in, I guess, the other room.
	Why are these two people here?
	It doesn't leave you.
	It doesn't leave you.
	Can you tell us whether those concerns that you have for your own personal safety extend to your family?
	Of course.
	Yeah, I mean, my older daughter's been very public with her work, with her version of Mary Funds and her, you know, she's written a few articles and op-eds and stuff in different local papers down in South Jersey.
	My younger daughter has been a little bit more private.
	She, you know, she'll make donations and things like that, but she has not put herself out there in the public.
	As much as my older daughter has, but, you know, anyone can find you.
	My younger daughter was being driven home from Georgetown University to Alexandria the day of the shooting.
	They're still in the car, and the phone rings, and it's one of the major networks.
	Somehow got my daughter's cell phone.
	I was trying to get a comment from her.
	I mean, you can find anybody.
	And have there been any events in the larger public arena that have made you increasingly anxious about your safety and that of your family?
	Nothing specific.
	Just constantly on guard.
	You talked about your kids.
	Excuse me one second.
	I'm going to get an exhibit number.
	I'd like to show the jury a couple more photographs, Bill.
	I can't choose, so I'm just going to show both of them.
	Let me just show you down there, 545. Do you like that one?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Can you just describe what the photograph is?
	That's, the picture's taken at, we have a cottage on one of the Finger Lakes that we got from Mary's family.
	So some are up there.
	This is my older daughter, Maura, and her two daughters, Lakeside.
	May I offer it?
	No objection, judge.
	This would be number 545. Your daughter?
	That's your daughter?
	Yes.
	She looks young.
	She's 38. Yeah, she didn't get carded.
	There was a while she was getting carded and my other daughter wasn't.
	It really got her a little mad.
	Yeah, she's younger looking.
	And those are the granddaughters?
	Yeah.
	We can show you, we can take that down, we can show 546. Did they approve?
	Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
	And this shows you, does this show you with your daughters and grandkids?
	Right, yeah, this was taken out in our backyard in Trumbull.
	We wanted to get some photos taken for Christmas gifts and things like that.
	So yeah, that was, and I apologize, that's a picture of a picture.
	I was told that I had the files on my old computers, but I don't know, I couldn't get, I couldn't have to pass.
	Uh, so why don't we show that?
	With that caption?
	Okay.
	546. Just a picture of a picture, sorry.
	You did good.
	You did good.
	Who's, these is, uh...
	That's my younger daughter, Katie, um, to my right in the picture, and then my older daughter, Maura, holding the baby on the left side, on the, to my left of the picture.
	And do you, do you share, do you, do you, is it your intention to share stories about their grandmother?
	Well, they know that she's in heaven.
	We haven't explained the details to them as of yet.
	There's a bit of a back lot behind the cottage on the lake, and we planted a tree.
	And that's known as a tree, and they paint rocks and put things out there when they come up in the summer.
	So eventually they'll find out one way or the other, so eventually at some point in time we'll have to control that initial conversation.
	And have you had discussions with the family about how you're going to deal with the lies that are out there about you, about Mary, and about Sandy Hook?
	They've sort of, I mean, I've been non-responsive in terms of, you know, I don't email anyone back.
	I don't, you know, we don't want to be poking there.
	But have you had, no, I mean, within the family, have you had discussions about dealing with that?
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	You know, just, again, be careful.
	You know, realize that these people are out there, and, you know, it's just something we'll have to live with.
	Alright, we'll take that.
	Thank you very much, Bill.
	There are no cross on this with us, Judge.
	Okay.
	You may step down, sir.
	Thank you, Judge.
	Just watch your step, okay?
	We can take our afternoon recess a little early if you want, or we can wait until 1130.
	It would be very early to take our afternoon recess, but we take our morning recess.
	I think I need a coffee break.
	Does that work for Council Attorney Pattis?
	What do you think?
	Works for me today.
	Alright, so there we go.
	Do we have, should I stay on the record, is there an issue that we need to address outside the presence of the jury or not any longer?
	Not at this point.
	Okay, so we'll take our morning recess.
	we'll be back in session at 11:30 I will be heading over to the coffee machine myself all right good morning you must be seated can i see you on camera on the sidewalk
	okay
	oh right so i think we need eleanor for that right
	Well, so the plan that you set out yesterday was 9 to 10 charge conference, 1 to 2 charge out this, and then the open question from our perspective is whether we have any evidence in the afternoon beyond that.
	I know.
	I know you were declined.
	You're not.
	You're so subtle, Josh.
	What?
	You're so subtle.
	Could you be a little more?
	So can we revisit this before, after the lunch break, because the jury gets by?
	We have people-- We have people lined up.
	Like, we're trying to keep-- trying to keep things moving, So we had planned on a full day, but, you know, we could...
	I'm going to keep doing my plan and give up my one shower.
	You're out of here.
	Yeah.
	Because I have other things to do besides this case.
	So I'd rather do nine to ten.
	One shower.
	And then, so you, the court would prefer...
	Do you think we'll get through the charge conference in those two hours?
	If not, we'll pick it up.
	No, I just, I'm hoping we do it by no way.
	I gotta judge.
	That way if we spill over a little bit, we need to charge conference.
	We can have whatever increment we can take some of the afternoon and not all.
	Like, the short days better than the short days.
	You're saying I'm standing up to get a hard stop to do tomorrow.
	Am I hearing that correctly?
	Okay, well then I guess we could tell the jury.
	Yeah, that's...
	Unless if we have a witness, it's only real.
	That's what I was trying to figure out.
	If we have somebody that can testify that...
	I'm over to Tuesday.
	We were just trying to do our job.
	So we can do, I have to now just try to format it so that it's so, I'll get you the charge right after lunch.
	So if we deal, you're going to talk first.
	About the charge.
	So do you want to do 9 to 10 without me?
	Well, if we're going to have the charge, we can look it over early.
	We can even talk to Norm later tonight.
	Well, I know.
	Probably talk.
	Maybe I go to bed early.
	You could do 9 to 10.
	I'll make whatever changes that are in agreement.
	We could start.
	We could do 1 to 2, and then we can pick it up again.
	Yeah.
	I think the charge, the way I look at the charge, there's some complications with all the things that are in the situation.
	None of us usually try clearing damages to the area.
	Right.
	Because we can all agree that it's extremely rare, so we're going to have to spend some time on it.
	Yeah, so if we do a little bit, what, so why don't you guys do mind detect tomorrow, so that you don't have We have, I'll tell you what we have, Melissa and Robbie Parker and some short videos.
	So we could be done with orange.
	Let's play it by you.
	Okay?
	Sound like a plan?
	Yes, thank you.
	Okay, and that other issue that we needed to talk about no longer exists.
	Well, before the next cross, but I think if you're going to put a live witness on here, you're, like, unlikely to finish him before lunch.
	What is the issue?
	The issue has to do with if or when they saw any Alex Jones.
	It's irrelevant to the case.
	Any of the issues in the case, it's just like you don't see the arsonist that burns down your house.
	The question is how bad is the damage?
	And defamation, sorry, just one more thing.
	Yes, sir.
	To the public, it's always mediated through those harms.
	it's not and there are other reasons but that's on the relevance on and then there are the correspondingly improper instances or confusion that it can cause like why they why did they take I think it should be confusing but we can explain it in a charge that it can follow in the law yeah but what it just has to be reasons for it to come out in the first instance obviously right
	so but I think we just know for those things and just like if they put it a thousand times a very direct you know doesn't that make it maybe make it worse for them as opposed to never slow directly No, I don't think that's the way definition works.
	It's like, or if you think about like, you know, because the damage is like, you can think of the arsonist judge.
	The arsonist who starts like a firearm is a terrible, does a lot of terrible things.
	Like, the harm is The default establishes that it's the result of everything.
	But why do we have to pick it up now?
	Well, we don't have to pick it up right here.
	No, I mean, why do we have to pick it up before it's a loss?
	Because it's been asked for.
	I know, but you run the risk of us, the dejecting and dejecting.
	I believe it is fair.
	I've done seven or eight.
	We've gone through eight plaintiffs.
	I've crossed five of them.
	I've used that in three or four when I thought the context in their testimony made it clear that it was fair game.
	As pled, the complaint talks about Mr. Jones not being the sole cause, but the primary cause of, well, no, no, it's pled.
	And, you know, I think I'm entitled to put a little distance between Jones and some of their damages, because although damages have been resolved by way of the default, the extent of them is much to be contested, and anything that I can do to minimize that, I think, is
	I think is within my rights. - How are you, how does it affect the extent of the other things? - If I am the primary, if six people, the arson analogy I think fails.
	If I am the only person they heard it say from, it's clear, I am the only one, I'm the primary cause, that's acknowledging that there are others.
	You're talking about cause, causations, and that's not...
	That's the confusion that I'm wondering now.
	So, I mean, I just, to preserve...
	I get what you're coming over now.
	I didn't, okay.
	So we'll argue it after, correct?
	Whenever it's appropriate.
	Okay.
	We'll get our panel, please.
	Okay.
	Okay. - Thank you very much.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Council stipulate that the entire panel has returned?
	Yes, Your Honor.
	Please be seated.
	Make yourselves comfortable again.
	Just two things.
	One, a reminder that we are off this week on Friday.
	I know I told you that during jury selection and I told you that last week, I think it was.
	I also want to tell you that tomorrow, Thursday, the lawyers and I will be reading 9 to 10. Before you get in to work on some things, and then we also need to work over lunch hour on certain things.
	So we are going to not be in evidence tomorrow afternoon.
	So you will be discharged tomorrow at 1. You'll have Friday off, and you'll return on Tuesday.
	Okay?
	Just, I wanted to give you as much notice as I could, so that if you had to do anything for work or for your personal life, you can plan accordingly.
	Thank you very much, Your Honor.
	uh alissa parker good morning it's still morning let's watch your start just remain standing so we can spare you in thank you
	yeah alissa parker p-a-r-k-e-r washington All right, and make yourself comfortable.
	I see you did not bring your own water bottle, so hopefully you'll get some of our water.
	And you may inquire whenever you're ready.
	Thank you very much, Your Honor, and thank you, Alyssa.
	You just noted that you're living in Washington.
	That's Washington State?
	Correct, Washington State.
	Okay, and you've been flying back and forth to attend the trial?
	Correct, yeah.
	And you got in last night?
	I did.
	Well, thank you.
	Yes, my sweet mom's been watching our girls, so it's making it easier.
	We always want to make sure the kids are babysitters.
	Yes.
	First of all, you're wife of Robbie Parker, is that right?
	Correct, yes.
	Okay.
	And can you tell us, Alyssa, tell the jury about yourself, your background, where you grew up, that kind of thing?
	So, my dad was in the Navy growing up.
	You know, I'm the youngest of five, and so we moved around.
	All of us are born in different states.
	I was born in California.
	And then, prior to that, my dad had always wanted to go back to Utah, where he was raised.
	My mom and my dad were high school sweethearts.
	They actually started dating, I think, in middle school.
	They were together forever.
	And he wanted to go back where family was.
	And so after he was done in the Navy, I was pretty young.
	We moved back to Utah.
	And my dad was a dentist in Utah.
	And my mom stayed at home with the kids, but she did all the bookkeeping for my dad.
	And we just lived in a really small community where everyone knew everyone.
	And I graduated in Utah, in Ogden, from high school there.
	And then I attended Weber State University, at what point Robbie and I, once we got married, I kind of started to work full time to pay for him to go to school.
	And so I took a break from school and I worked while he was going through.
	And then once we had kids, we kind of made the transition where I was I was at home with the kids, and then I always wanted to go back to get my degree, and so a couple years ago I finished my bachelor's, and so I have a bachelor's of integrated studies with communications, child and family studies, and health promotions was my major.
	Well, you just covered quite a lot of ground for us.
	Thank you.
	Sorry, I jumped ahead.
	My schooling was really far out there, so I had to preface that.
	Can we just back up a little bit?
	Yes.
	So, first of all, you said you graduated high school in Utah.
	What college did you go to?
	Weber State.
	It was in Utah as well.
	And when along your studies did you meet Robbie?
	I actually knew Robbie in middle school.
	We had known each other for quite some time.
	We actually lived on the same street, but a mile apart from each other.
	In middle school, I thought Robbie was just funny, goofy.
	He had a really big growth spurt in middle school, so he was really tall at the time compared to all the other students, and he was really thin, so he was kind of gangly.
	And that was my memory of him, was this tall gangly kid that was really funny.
	And then in high school, we really started to get to know each other then.
	So you're not painting a love at first sight kind of picture in middle school?
	No.
	He amused me, but I was not in that mindset, no.
	And did you continue to go to school with Robbie up through high school?
	Yeah, so in high school we had classes together.
	I was a year older in school, which is kind of embarrassing that I kind of dated someone that was a year younger.
	In high school, it was embarrassing.
	I probably wouldn't have admitted it at the time.
	But he and I dated.
	Later on, in the beginning, it was just a friendship.
	We had classes and we would just talk and talk and talk.
	We just really meshed well as a friendship.
	And I watched him date a whole bunch of my friends.
	I didn't really think anything of it.
	He was a bit of a flirt.
	His friends would probably say that was an understatement at the time.
	He was just really friendly and he just lit up a room.
	He was really charismatic.
	So I just didn't take him very seriously for a while as far as the flirtation that he would do with me.
	We had this ongoing joke, and this is so embarrassing because this is high school, but we had this ongoing joke that we were writing a book about how to Flirt with people, like hit on them.
	So we would come up with the corniest things and we would just laugh about them.
	And so anytime he would flirt with me, I just didn't take it serious.
	I thought it was all part of this ongoing joke and And we would just talk.
	He would, every time I came out of, I remember my senior year, every time I came out of drama, he was always there and we'd walk and we'd have all these funny conversations.
	And we went to the same church building, but his church, his parents attended at a later time than ours.
	And every time I would come out, he would be there and we would talk and we got along really, really well.
	And I remember this one time we were having this conversation and, you know, it kind of shifted.
	And I remember we kissed.
	And I was like, whoa, that was like out of nowhere.
	Where did that come from?
	And I remember he was like, are you serious?
	He's like, I've been waiting outside of your classrooms.
	I've been waiting for you at church.
	I've been going to your softball games.
	And no one went to our softball games.
	So that should have been the signal right there.
	Like, no one was there.
	But it didn't occur to me that it was intentional and that he was pursuing me and we've been together ever since.
	So you really knew Robbie as he grew up, both physically and how he matured in other ways, right?
	Yeah, the proportions started to work.
	Yes, and then even after he graduated from high school, he went on a mission.
	He served a two-year mission for our church in Brazil, and so we wrote the entire time that he was on his mission.
	Just really got to know each other indepthly while he was on his mission, and we just corresponded every week with the letter.
	You know, just in terms of knowing him so well, was he somebody that you ever observed being super moody or depressed or anxious?
	Was that part of who he was back then?
	No, not at all.
	Robbie was just so friendly and Everyone liked him.
	He was just the life of the party.
	But he wasn't obnoxious, because there was a lot of obnoxious people in high school that we associated with.
	One of the things that I remember most about him was that I just never got sick of him.
	He was just a person that you could just talk to for hours.
	And no, he was never anxious, always just fun, just a funny guy.
	Was he somebody who put on a lot of trying to be people he wasn't, or did he strike you as insincere in any way?
	No, of course not.
	No, he was very thoughtful, and I think that's why he was so likable, was because he was sincere with people.
	He really cared about what they were going through.
	He remembered a lot of things.
	He has a really good memory, and he would remember things that people were going through, and he was always really good at circling back to that.
	And so you started dating in earnest when?
	Roughly.
	My senior year.
	And so then when I graduated, again, I was dating a senior in high school.
	It was kind of annoying.
	But we continued to date still even then.
	And, you know, I would say, oh, you should go to dances with other people.
	And he's like, I don't really care.
	And so we continued to date even though I was in college.
	And it was awkward but great.
	And did there come a time when you decided to get married?
	So, Robbie had been serving his mission, and we knew we were really serious about each other.
	While we were corresponding, you know, we were We knew that marriage was something that we both wanted.
	And I remember, you know, just being so excited.
	I hadn't seen him for two years, and he was coming home.
	And back then, you could go, you know, everyone would come to the airport, because he'd been gone for two years on this mission, and he came out, and he smiled, this huge smile.
	This is the first time I've seen him in two years.
	And chunks of his teeth are missing.
	Like, front teeth are missing.
	And I'm like...
	Hey!
	And in Brazil, you know, soccer's life.
	And he did not play soccer.
	But he was playing with them, these Brazilians, and they play on, like, this cement.
	And essentially, he just tripped and fell right before and, like, My front teeth were just gone.
	And my dad was a dentist.
	And so he went straight from the airport to this dentist office.
	And my dad made me come with him.
	And I'm so nervous.
	He wanted me to assist.
	And I'm like, I'm so nervous.
	I don't know.
	I should be by someone's mouth.
	But my dad went to the bathroom.
	So Rob is sitting there with these messed up teeth looking at me.
	And he's like, kiss me.
	I was like, are you kidding me?
	I'm not kissing you right now.
	And he's like, hurry, hurry.
	I really wanted you to kiss me with these teeth.
	I was like, that's the closest thing I've ever seen.
	So no, I wouldn't kiss him.
	So my dad came back, fixed his teeth, we kissed, and two weeks later we were engaged.
	This is not going as I expected.
	I know, I'm sorry.
	Two weeks later we were engaged and it's almost been 20 years.
	And can you tell the jury when you got married and where?
	So we got married.
	Oh, this is embarrassing.
	I always forget our anniversary.
	It was in March.
	2003 was when we got married and we got married in Utah.
	And we know you were a year older than Robbie.
	How old were you guys?
	We were pretty young.
	I was kind of embarrassed when Bill was like, we were really young.
	We were 24.
	We were 21.
	So we were really young.
	And what were you each doing at the time or around the time you were married, either before or afterwards, and tell us about what was going on in your lives, the profession and things like that?
	Yeah, so probably as long as I had known him, wanted to work in the medical field.
	He is a science nerd, and just everything science is of interest to him.
	And so from the very beginning, I knew he wanted to work in the NICU, which is the Newborn Intensive Care Unit.
	And so he was going to school for that.
	He was going to start off getting his respiratory therapy license, and he was going to work in the NICU. And then from there, he was deciding exactly which route he wanted to go.
	And I was working as a loan officer at one point when I got pregnant.
	And when I got pregnant, we both really wanted me to be able to stay home with our daughter, and so Luckily, timing-wise, he graduated right before Emily was born, and he got a job as a respiratory therapist in a NICU, which was his dream.
	He really just wanted to get his foot in the door in the NICU world.
	And so he was working full-time in the NICU, and he was working night shifts, so he would work All night, and I guess this is probably because we were really young, we could pull this off, but he was working all night in the NICU, and then he would come home, straight home, well actually he didn't come straight home, he went straight to school, went in class all day, and then came home and he would sleep for a few hours.
	So that was our life while he was going, finishing up, because he had another year to go, and then he started to apply to PA schools, which is physician assistant.
	Okay.
	And Robbie's going to testify later today, and I'm sure we'll agree with literally everything he said.
	Of course he would.
	But how old were you guys when you had your first child?
	I was 24. Robbie would have been...
	Was he still 24?
	I don't know.
	Somewhere around there.
	And that was Emily?
	That was Emily, our first.
	And how do you spell Emily's name?
	You spell with an I-E because Robbie's nickname, his real name is Robert, but he goes by Robbie with an I-E. And so that was kind of his nod to Emily, like their little cute connection was they both have an I-E in their name.
	Sorry, did you say her date of birth?
	No, I didn't.
	Oh gosh, now I'm going to blink because I'm so bad.
	May 12th in 2006 was when she was born and Robbie went on to earn a degree as a PA is that right?
	Yes.
	So he went to school at Pacific University in Oregon.
	So we moved out that area, which we just fell in love with.
	And pretty soon after we had Emily, I found I was pregnant with Madeline.
	Our girls are all very close in age, so they were only 20 months apart, and I was dying because I thought, I can't handle this.
	They're so close in age.
	And then after Madeline was born, I was still nursing her.
	She was only like six months old when I found out I was pregnant with Samantha.
	So that was, they're only 15 months apart.
	So that was the next shocker.
	All while he was in school.
	Okay, so Emily was the oldest.
	Emily was the oldest, yep.
	And then by about 20 months?
	Yeah, so Samantha, the youngest, when she was born, Emily hadn't had her birthday yet.
	So for three weeks, I had a zero, one, and two-year-old.
	They were all very close in age.
	Okay, and...
	How long did you remain in this part of the country?
	Just until he was done with PA school, and then he got his first job in New Mexico, where we stayed for about a year.
	It wasn't green enough there, though.
	We couldn't live there long.
	And so, Robbie, where did you move out to New Mexico?
	So after New Mexico is when we moved to Connecticut.
	So, by the time you moved to New Mexico, you've got the three little fathers?
	Three very young girls, yes.
	And then, when did you move to Connecticut?
	So we moved to Connecticut.
	Oh, that would have been the year of 2012, the beginning of the year.
	I think it was around New Year's that we moved into the area, but we didn't move into Sandy Hook right away.
	We were renting in the beginning.
	We wanted to really do our homework to find the right area that we wanted to buy a house and settle.
	Just going back to Robbie's graduation, he graduated from where?
	PA school?
	Pacific University.
	That's right, you said that.
	And if we can show for the witness 523, sorry, the witness, that's you, Alyssa.
	523, is this a photograph of Robbie at his graduation?
	Yes, it is.
	Okay.
	Any objections to full exhibit?
	No objections yet.
	Can we show it?
	Aha, wow.
	Oh, blondie's there.
	So, could you point out who these three little children are?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	So, Emily's down at the bottom there, and then Madeline, the middle, is who Robbie is holding, and then Samantha, which that sucking of her fingers cost a fortune in orthodontics, but that's Samantha in my arms.
	Did you get a discount from your dad, or did you do that kind of work?
	I did not.
	And tell us about, I mean, I'm just curious, he's wearing that big, what do you call those things?
	The lei, yes.
	He had another student that went to school with him, that she was from Hawaii, and we were all really close, so she brought these big leis that she put on.
	Their family gave them to all of her friends.
	So you took, this family actually was able to move to New Mexico and then to Connecticut?
	Yes, we went to New Mexico.
	They were willing to train Robbie in the NICU specifically, which was exactly where he wanted to be because PAs are usually, they're pretty generalized.
	You have to get trained in your specialty.
	And so for someone to say they'd be willing to train him in the NICU, he really was excited to be able to just jump right into working in the NICU. But I was not a huge fan of New Mexico, so we knew we weren't going to stay there very long.
	And so, you moved to Connecticut in what year?
	In 2012. Oh, in 2012. Yeah, we had not lived.
	We definitely didn't live in Sandy Hook very long, but we had lived in Connecticut just that beginning of that year.
	And how did you choose, of all the states, Connecticut in the first place?
	Well, that was the job offer that was available to us.
	And we went, Robbie had gone out for the interview, and then I had come out after he'd gotten the job.
	And what we loved about the area was just, you know, it's so green here.
	It's beautiful.
	There's this historic feel to it.
	And we fell in love with just the people, the area, all around.
	We felt like it was a good place for our family.
	And you came from different parts of the country.
	Did it feel like a safe community?
	Yes.
	Sandy Hook specifically, I remember the place that we were working for had actually arranged for a realtor.
	And this was smart because we hadn't accepted the job.
	She went and took us around to all these different places.
	I had this map of the area.
	And she took us around so we could get to know them and fall in love with it and she'd tell us all these, like, fun historic facts about the areas.
	But I specifically remember when they took us to, when she took us to Newtown.
	She drove up to Sandy Hook Elementary School.
	And showed it to us.
	And Robbie looked at the school and he's like, oh my gosh, this looks just like my elementary school when I was young.
	And he's like, this is perfect.
	Because it just felt like a place you'd raise a family.
	It was familiar to us, even though we were new to the area.
	And I specifically circled Newtown as the one that I wanted to after that.
	And did you know anybody here?
	Or did you know anybody in the Sandy Hook community prior to being there?
	No.
	No one.
	And what time in 2012 did you move to Sandy Hook?
	So we caught the tail end of the school year, so it would have been later spring.
	It was when we ended up buying a house.
	And so Emily was in kindergarten for, I think, the last month and a half of school.
	And you were taking care of the two?
	Two little ones, yes.
	The two little, little ones.
	Two little ones, yes.
	And so were they, so Emily was in kindergarten for the tail end of the spring part of 2012?
	Right.
	And then was going to go into first grade?
	Correct.
	In the fall?
	Into first grade.
	Okay.
	We were remodeling the house we had bought, and so I didn't know a whole lot of people because we were so focused on remodeling our house.
	I really didn't know a lot of people.
	So even when she was in kindergarten and then through first grade, we didn't really know a whole lot of people because we were very focused on getting our house done.
	And where was Robbie working?
	Was he working at a hospital?
	Yes, so he was working at Danbury Hospital in their NICU. So now that he had had a year of training, he was a lot more desirable.
	So he was able to get the job.
	And the place that he had worked at before took babies that were a lot younger.
	And so he had had a lot of expertise that they were looking for when he came to Danbury.
	So he really enjoyed the hospital there.
	Can I ask you some questions about Emily?
	Yeah.
	Can you tell a jury about Emily?
	So, Emily was incredibly verbal.
	As a young kid, she had this ability to communicate and express her emotions really early on.
	I don't recall one time that she ever had a temper tantrum because she just could articulate and tell me exactly what she wanted.
	And when I would tell her no, she would just sit for a second and say, okay, what about this?
	And like she always had a way around everything, but she wasn't confrontational.
	She was just, you know, she just was A sweetheart.
	And she was easy.
	And I thought it was because I was kind of an awesome parent until I started having my other kids and I'm like, oh, she was just really good.
	Because she slept really well.
	She nursed really well.
	She potty trained in a day.
	She just was amazing.
	And I had so much confidence.
	And then it just, yeah, it wasn't normal.
	Yeah.
	But she always loved to draw.
	And even as a little kid, she had artwork everywhere.
	And compared to my other kids, they would draw in color, but it was an obsession for her.
	So much so that she had her own tray in the back of her van, because she was the oldest, so she could buckle herself in.
	So she would have this big tray that had all her art supplies on the side.
	It had these deep pockets.
	And then her artwork.
	And she would just sit it off to the side.
	And so she'd sit down.
	We'd get in the car.
	And it just never stopped.
	She would go through an entire notebook within a day or two, just filling it, just drawings.
	It was just her identity.
	And I loved it because it showed me a window into her life.
	It was like a journal of the things that she saw and her imagination.
	I'm going to call up a picture, a photograph of Emily.
	We're 548 for ID. Just take a look at it.
	Does that give us a census to her artistic interest?
	Yes.
	This was an abstract painting.
	An abstract, yeah.
	Yes.
	She had worked her way through cubism and all this.
	Yes, this is an abstract painting of crayons and her color palette, her painting palette.
	Adafari Runner.
	No objection, Judge.
	You should have said that.
	Wow.
	It's really sweet.
	Thank you.
	And did Emily do a number of these larger paintings?
	She did.
	That one was a special one.
	She had gotten that for her birthday.
	So her sixth birthday, she had gotten that larger canvas.
	And so that was what she painted with it.
	She's six years old here.
	Yep.
	This is in the summer, I believe, of 2012. Yeah.
	Where did she get the artistic talent from?
	I mean, I'm probably, I'm the more artistic one in the family.
	I'm not an artist like that.
	I'm a different kind of an artist.
	But, yeah, not Robbie.
	Robbie from, like, he wouldn't even play Pictionary.
	Like, he literally was like, I don't draw.
	So, yeah, she would probably get it more from me.
	Now, I want to ask you about the type of relationship, from your perspective as a witness, the type of relationship that Robbie had with Emily.
	They had a really sweet relationship, especially because they had absolutely nothing in common as far as interests go, that they kind of made it work.
	You know, Emily, like I talked about, you know, so into art, and Robbie, not at all.
	And it wasn't until he saw that she was really into art that I would catch him just sitting at this little table, and that's where she did her artwork, and he would sit at this table with her, and he holds his pen really awkwardly, and he'd sit there and he was trying.
	To draw these pictures with her, and I just have this vivid memory of them doing that and how uncomfortable he was, but yet, for her he'd do it.
	Not for me, but for her he'd do it.
	And the flip side of that was that she wasn't really into science and all those things, but She would ask him questions like, hey dad, what happened at work today?
	Tell me about the babies.
	And I know she didn't really know much or care, but he just would get so animated when he would talk about his job and working with these babies.
	And he would get his old college textbooks out, like anatomy, to like a six-year-old.
	And he would sit it down and he would talk all about what was going on, what the defect was that he was working on.
	And she always acted interested.
	Whether she was or not is debatable, but she was just sincere that she cared about what he cared about.
	And even though they didn't have a lot of interests in common, the one thing that I... The one thing that they had in common...
	It was kindness.
	As long as I had known Robbie, he was always very attentive of what the needs were of people around him.
	Always opening doors for people when I wouldn't even notice that they needed help.
	Always...
	Asking if people needed, you know, when we were teenagers, he would ask his parents, like, you guys need help?
	Like, do you need me to take and run errands?
	I mean, he was always canceling with me to do nice things with them.
	That was weird to me.
	You know, he's just, he's a thoughtful person, and Emily got that from her dad.
	And when he talked about in In his statement about Emily, he talked about how she would write those notes to people.
	You know, she said something that made you feel bad.
	You would always get a card in the morning that said, I'm sorry, and I love you.
	And she got that from him.
	He does that.
	As long as I've known him, he sees when people are in need and he's incredibly thoughtful.
	So Emily would also write notes? - Shh.
	She did.
	Sometimes it was annoying as a parent because she's supposed to get a certain amount of sleep in the night, but she would stay up and she would draw and she would write these notes to you and...
	And I would say, you really need to get more sleep.
	And she goes, but I can't stop thinking!
	I gotta get it out!
	And it was so sweet.
	And, you know, she was never moody.
	She didn't seem like she had, like, a lack of sleep.
	Like, if she was, like, really struggling, I probably would have put my foot down.
	But I let her fall asleep when she needed to.
	And those were, a lot of times, the surprises of her late-night drawing ventures.
	And so she entered first grade in the fall and who was her teacher?
	She had Mrs. D'Amato with her teacher.
	Had she made friends by that time?
	You know, she had a couple of friends that had been in her kindergarten class that were now in her class, but she really took to Josephine Gay.
	She called her Joey.
	And Joey, she was autistic.
	She was also apraxic, which means she was nonverbal.
	She couldn't talk.
	Which, honestly, in retrospect, was probably why Emily liked her, because Emily loved to talk and liked to have someone silently sit there and just let her talk.
	I think that's why she loved it.
	She got some extra attention from her.
	But her focus was always trying to understand what Joey liked and trying to understand the things that Joey...
	Was attracted to like for example she would wear these big poofy pink skirts kind of like tutus Emily would wear these to school and Joey would always come up and touch them and she was really interested in the fabric and then Emily had a Barbie backpack and she said that she would always come up and stroke her backpack and so the week of the shooting that Saturday Joey was supposed to have a birthday party And
	I was really looking forward to it because I wanted to get to know some of the other parents and the other students in her class because I didn't know any of them.
	And she took a solid hour trying to pick out the birthday present for Joey.
	And she picked a Barbie with a tutu because she knew she really likes the texture of the fabric.
	And so that had been wrapped up and we were ready.
	At the birthday party that Saturday.
	That was the plan for you and Emily that Saturday?
	That Saturday.
	When did you get the Barbie?
	It was either Wednesday or Thursday that week, so right before.
	It was Robbie.
	If you work as a healthcare professional, It's a 24-7 thing.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	So he would work lots of different hours.
	He took the job specifically because they allowed him to do 24-hour shifts.
	So when he was gone, he was gone.
	But he would never work two days in a row.
	And so he would kind of have these...
	You know, he would work two, only two, three days a week, which was nice, but when he was gone, it was a full 24 hours.
	And so he would have to try and regulate his sleep and whatnot.
	Okay.
	You've been in court and seen how we're covering the day of the shooting.
	But can I just ask you, Alyssa, can you share with the jury when did you last see Emily alive?
	um That morning we had gotten ready and we were going out to the bus stop and I had her two younger sisters with me and it was kind of like a neighborhood gathering at the end of the road and we had this tradition that when the kids got on the bus they would all turn around and they would wave goodbye.
	And every day, this was what happened.
	She'd run, get on the bus, turn around with all the other kids, and they'd wave goodbye.
	And I remember that morning, we were kind of in a hurry.
	And we were sitting at the bus stop and the younger kids were all playing tag and one of the kids had gotten stuck on this little heel slide and was screaming.
	And I remember I was coming over and Emily just ran into me and hugged me and ran off to the bus.
	And so I was quickly trying to help this child get down so that I could wave goodbye.
	So I hurried and I climbed up this little hill and I pulled them down and I ran over with all the other parents to say goodbye.
	And Emily got Got in the bus.
	She didn't turn around and say goodbye.
	She didn't wave.
	And I just stood there waving, waving, waiting for her to turn and wave to me.
	And she didn't.
	And I remember thinking, once is okay.
	That was the last time I saw her.
	We know that there came a time when you had heard or became aware that there had been some incident at Sandy Hook School.
	Is that fair to say?
	Yeah.
	And where was Robbie that morning at the time that you heard that?
	He was at the hospital.
	He was working.
	In the neonatal intensive care unit?
	Yeah, I was Christmas shopping with my youngest and I called him and he went into his break room and was because we didn't know what school it had happened the phone call we received it was automated phone call and it just said a shooting in the district and so he had gone into his break room to see if the news had said what school it was at.
	And You and Ravi did go to the scene around the firehouse and the school.
	Yeah, Ravi came a lot later.
	It's protocol that whenever something like this happens in a community that the hospital's in lockdown and they can't leave.
	And so I picked up my middle daughter on the way to the school.
	And went to the school to wait and I ran in with these two little girls with my hands and went to the firehouse and I couldn't find her.
	And we need to show the jury some photographs that were taken because of the way they were later used.
	So if we could call up, first to your there, 292. Yeah.
	Um, do you see that?
	Sorry, Alyssa.
	Oh, sorry.
	No, I don't see him yet.
	Um, can you just identify what that depicts?
	So, this is us, like, right after we found Emily died, that she was gone.
	Um, I couldn't breathe and I wanted to leave.
	And so this is the first time I left the firehouse after coming in and, um, Robbie's walking me to my car.
	And why don't we just, if you would, why don't we show the jury that?
	Any objection?
	Oh, okay.
	So that's Robbie with his arm around you?
	Yeah.
	And was this photograph one of the photographs that was widely just seen or Across the country and the world?
	Yeah.
	Yes, it was.
	Do you want me to tell you what things have been said?
	No, actually, we'll get to it later.
	And if we can, also, 293, I assume, would also be a full exhibit?
	It is a full exhibit.
	Thank you, Attorney.
	Well, it's a full exhibit.
	Is this also After you found out?
	Yeah, this was all in the same moment.
	It's just pictures taken of us going down the road.
	Robbie seems, uh, well, I don't know what it would be like, but does this, is there anything about this photograph that we can, that tells us the type of person Robbie is?
	You know, because of Robbie's medical background, he was always the one in control when things went bad.
	And, you know, we had this, like, thing that, you know, whenever, like, something bad happens, like, Robbie's the one you want there, because he's so well put together, and he can compartmentalize his own emotions and focus on what needs to be done.
	And that's why he's good at his job.
	And, obviously, I have issues holding emotion in.
	Like, it just flows out of me.
	And that was a reflection of our dynamic, was that he was always put together.
	Whenever something wrong happened, he was the stalwart one.
	He was the one that you relied on.
	You know, any time there was anything happening, I always would call his name.
	because he's the first person you would call.
	So this, the jury knows this occurred on a Friday.
	Can you just sort of take us through in some detail the weekend?
	The next morning, our house was filled with lots of people, family, friends.
	We didn't know a whole lot of people there, so most of them flew in.
	It was our parents and siblings that were there.
	And I remember that the day before, we had some really amazing friends in Utah.
	They were just our best friends and we've always kept in touch with them and they, after they found Emily was a victim, they created a Facebook memorial page for Emily.
	And I remember, you know, Robbie loved, these were Robbie's best friends in school and it meant so much to him that they were honoring our sweet girl.
	And so that morning I remember we were looking at that and that Robbie felt so much love from them and like that this was a way to honor our daughter and that we could put posts out there about her or say things about her.
	And because they had made that, there had been a lot of like Requests from media towards them because there was an obvious connection there with our families and so they started to reach out like Media in Utah started to reach out to them and ask for comment and oh I can stop.
	I was just telling you about that.
	I just want to go back.
	I just want to ask you some questions about that.
	Yes, go ahead.
	Who established First of all, what was the Facebook site called?
	Emily Parker Memorial page, I believe.
	And it was established by friends, who was it established by?
	I don't know which one actually established it, but our friends Alan and Brad and their wives were involved.
	And so these were friends and family that established it, or friends that established it in Utah who couldn't just drive to your home.
	Right, right.
	And then they had, they started taking his, Brad's brother started a fund where people could donate to raise money for Emily's funeral costs.
	And so, and Robbie's, can you just, to your observation, just Provided some comfort to Robbie?
	A lot.
	A lot.
	Can you explain that to the jury?
	It was like a secret place for him.
	That people's words were comforting to him and that it was a place that he felt like He could honor our daughter and the life that she had.
	And I think that because it was made with love, that this was a place that was going to be a safe place for him to be able to put things about Emily in her life.
	The, uh, by the way, had you Robbie?
	Well, let's speak with you.
	Had you ever heard of a guy named Alex Jones or anything about a media conglomerate called NFORS?
	No.
	Yeah.
	Did you know at the time whether or not Alex Jones had gone on the air within three hours of the event that took your daughter's life to talk about they are coming, they are coming, they are coming?
	No.
	I think it's clear.
	No, I was unaware.
	Did you know at the time whether or not Alex Jones was trying to sell products at the time within three hours of your daughter's shooting?
	No.
	So the Facebook page was created by friends, and Robbie was made aware of the Facebook page, what, Friday and Robbie was made aware of the Facebook page, what, Friday or
	I think, I mean, we vaguely knew about it on Friday, like later on that day, we knew of its existence, but it wasn't really until Saturday that I remember him being on there quite a bit in the morning and throughout the day.
	Okay.
	Saturday you had quite a, I'm assuming was you had quite a bit to deal with?
	Yeah, honestly, I was just kind of, I was still in shock that day.
	I didn't really do a whole lot, but I knew we had to start making funeral arrangements.
	That really took up speed on Sunday.
	That day was just for trying to figure out some logistics.
	You said that as a result of the...
	You said that as a result of the Facebook page...
	Rob, you're just getting media inquiries.
	Robbie wasn't directly, it was a whole bunch of people that we knew in Utah.
	It started off with the people who had made the Facebook page, and when they wouldn't talk, we had heard, like they kind of went at the next layer, trying to ask people to talk, and that layer wouldn't talk.
	and so we just we kind of figured they were just going to keep going until they found someone who would talk about our daughter okay okay so okay
	let's see are you okay going out would you would you have Judge, can we approach a second?
	Certainly.
	Thank you.
	We have a break for lunch at this point.
	You'll have an extra long lunch.
	We will start promptly at 2 o'clock, though, so just make sure if you go out to enjoy what looks to be nice weather that you're back in time.
	Ron will collect your notepads.
	I know you know what the rules are.
	We've come this far.
	Please continue to obey them.
	And please make sure that if there is any issue at all, that you let Ron know by way of a written note to that we can deal with it at the right time okay have a nice lunch we'll take the recess All right, ready to proceed?
	Upkeeping matter?
	Sure.
	Attorney Maddie and I spoke over the break, and I want to put this on the record for the event there is an appeal and I'm not in on it.
	I'm going to agree to the admission of exhibits 550 and 551. It was published by InfoWars
	on December 14, 2014. They are stipulated to in the chart that Ms. Paz referenced during her testimony as being videos that were broadcast, and then during her deposition as a corporate representative, she discussed it as being a video that has been broadcast by InfoWars, so I appreciate Council's courtesy.
	And the reason we're doing that now is so that I don't have to lay that foundation when I offer it with Mr. Parker.
	All right, it's ordered.
	And can you make sure that we are all up to speed with the exhibits that have been filed by the end of the day?
	I know Ron's playing catch up on some of them.
	We need to get that.
	One other housekeeping matter, there's an oral motion regarding scope of process.
	It's not going to come up this afternoon.
	I wanted to file something and write it on it tomorrow morning.
	And so even the witnesses who are calling are being called and their role in this case, these issues will not arise.
	Can you give me a heads up so I can start thinking about it?
	The question of whether I should be committed to testify about the plaintiff's familiarity with Alex Jones, and whether it's about the adult in the court's rulings with respect to causation in this case, and I will argue threefold.
	I will argue that there are multiple counts in this case, including an intentional function of count, which is somewhat different than the defamation count.
	I will argue that even in a conspiracy case, which is being treated as, where each co-conspirator is liable for the acts of all others, the relative degree of culpability is still for the fact finder.
	We've both elected for reasons of our own to try to commit to the court under the cut book claim.
	And finally, I have a view of causation that is probably a variance, but the public court has thus far ruled a lot of paper and files.
	All right, when should I look for it?
	By 8.30 normally.
	Judge, just to be clear, I had raised the issue not in a written motion but orally before the court, so I assume that we will also have to, if that's the plan, then we will also file something in writing.
	Sounds like a plan.
	I'm sorry to say that, Judge, since we just reached docket number 1,000, but we're on our way to the second 1,000.
	Well, okay.
	Okay.
	Anything else?
	Not from the plaintiff's standpoint.
	Okay, Mr. Furrow.
	Thank you.
	We can have the witness resumed.
	Oh, yes.
	Sorry, Judge.
	- That's all right.
	Take your time. - And while the jury comes down, maybe we approach a real quick question.
	sure you want the spot in front of the room don't she I just worked on it that's why I It's really in, I don't know how to format, so I sent it to the Secretary to make a read of one.
	Yeah, yeah, no, no, you'll have it hopefully after the next break.
	she's working on it
	Thank you.
	Okay, welcome back.
	Good afternoon again.
	Welcome back, folks.
	Council will stipulate that the entire panel is present?
	Yes, of course.
	Yes, yes.
	Please be seated, everyone.
	As Ron passes out of her notebooks.
	I know we are starting a little bit later than I said.
	I was actually working on something, and then we had some housekeeping matters, so we were all busy working.
	So we really do appreciate so much your continued patience.
	We try to be as efficient as we possibly can, so thank you.
	All right, you may continue whenever you're ready, Attorney Pascal.
	Take your time.
	Thank you very much, Your Honor.
	No books.
	Alyssa, you were explaining to us before the break about the Facebook page that was set up by friends out in Utah, is that right?
	Yes.
	And I think you, just to get us caught up, I think you were explaining how that brought comfort to Robby?
	Yes, a lot.
	And were you involved in that as much or did you find other ways to?
	I think at that time I was just grieving in a very different way.
	I was kind of just processing it on my own so I wasn't looking at it as much as he was and I could tell that for him specifically that was something that he just really connected to in honoring Emily.
	Okay.
	And Did there come a time that Robbie gave a statement?
	Yes, it was later that Saturday.
	And I want to ask you about your understanding as to how that came to be, but when you say that Saturday, you're talking about Saturday, December 15th?
	The day after.
	The day after the shooting.
	And so can you tell us your understanding as to how that statement came to pass, so to speak?
	Well, essentially...
	Essentially, if anyone was going to say anything about our daughter, Robbie wanted it to come from us.
	He wanted it to be from our words.
	And he wanted to be able to honor her the way we authentically knew her.
	And he wanted that specifically to come from him.
	But what was it that made doing that Saturday an urgency at all?
	Yes.
	Well, because of all the people who we were already told had been contacted, our fear was that they were going to just keep going until they found someone who would be willing to talk on the record about Emily, and they wouldn't know our daughter, and that that would be what people knew about her.
	And so was that, you say, people being contacted, was that related to some way of the Facebook page?
	Can you describe that?
	Just, you know, whoever was commenting on there, if they found people, you know, people would say just the craziest things about knowing our family, and we just didn't want that to be the voice of our daughter.
	And were your friends who set up the Facebook page being asked to give some statements about Emily?
	Right.
	They were asked because they had set it up and then other people had already started being asked once they said no.
	And, um, so Robbie wanted to be the one?
	Well, I wasn't going to do it, no.
	So, absolutely.
	He was the one that felt like he was in a position that he could speak for our family.
	Okay.
	Did you have, prior to the statement being given, did you have an expectation as his wife as to what that was going to look like, what the audience was going to be?
	Can you explain that to the jury?
	We specifically were contacting the Utah affiliate to come and record a statement for the people in Utah because we were from there.
	A lot of people knew our family in the community, and that was primarily where we were hearing from people.
	He had reached out to our friend to say, contact that affiliate and have that affiliate come, and we'll record my statement that they can then play in Utah for our family and friends and people there who really cared about our story.
	So this was, the expectation was this was going to be a statement really for your Utah community?
	Right.
	Okay.
	A camera was going to come and record and then play in Utah that night, you know, for the nightly news or whatever, just to kind of have it out there, but to also ease that pressure in Utah.
	And did you accompany Robbie to...
	Well, first of all, where was the setup for the statement, if there was one?
	It was at our church.
	Here in...
	In Connecticut, in Newtown, the church that we went to.
	Okay.
	And did you accompany Robbie to what was expected to be a recorded statement with a camera?
	No.
	Robbie had gone a lot earlier and he was meeting up with some family that was flying in so he had gone really early and was just in the building and then I pulled up right before I knew what time he was going to do his statement.
	Okay so we want to hear from your perspective Robbie's going to be Testifying in a bit, but what did you observe as you approached the building or walked in?
	I mean, it was not what I was expecting at all.
	I remember driving up and just seeing all of these people and all of these cameras, and I was very confused.
	I had no idea where they had come from, how they even knew about it.
	I mean, he made one phone call to one friend Who called one reporter, so it was just confusing why they were all there, what the expectation was, you know, it felt like it was in operation all of a sudden, like it just ran away from us.
	I had no idea that it was going to be what it was.
	And was the statement delivered inside or outside?
	Outside.
	They had set up, way before everyone had gotten there, they had set up a podium, and so everyone was kind of, you know, half circled around this podium, and Robbie hasn't even come out to see it.
	Did you get there in time to see Robbie deliver the full statement?
	I did.
	Do you want me to talk a little bit about the statement?
	Well, I'm sorry.
	I did want to ask you from your perspective, as Robbie's writing for you, what did you think of Robbie's statement?
	It was very sweet.
	It was very tender.
	I felt this beautiful girl that was gone from her lives and that her life was not defined by this horrible moment.
	But that we knew this beautiful being.
	And he captured that.
	He captured the love that we had for her.
	The love that she had given our family.
	And there was a softness to it.
	A sweetness.
	And I felt like we were dealing with this horrid loss, but We wanted everyone else to know how much we were thinking of them, how much we loved them.
	And it was really important to make sure they knew we were thinking about them.
	And I think he captured that.
	Was he like reading from a script or...
	He'd written it out.
	I remember I was sitting on the couch, just wrapped up in a blanket, listening to him write it and...
	It was so sweet.
	He just loved that little girl.
	And he wanted...
	He wanted to honor her.
	And as his wife, knowing what went into that, were you...
	Were you happy?
	Were you proud of the way you did that?
	Or were you ashamed?
	No, I was super proud of him.
	I could never have done that.
	To be able to be composed enough to do that.
	Like...
	And the words that he used describe our daughter, which is beautiful, and I am proud of him.
	Did you know that Alex Jones was going to capitalize on Robbie's statement for his own purposes?
	No.
	That would never have even occurred to me.
	That was Saturday.
	I'm sorry.
	That was on Saturday.
	And did you go home with Rodney?
	I don't even recall.
	It was so chaotic.
	I don't remember who I went home with.
	I mean, I remember seeing him at home.
	Did there come a time when he became aware of Accusations that Robbie was an actor faking the death of his daughter, Emily.
	Yes.
	As part of some ulterior motive that he had to take people's rights away.
	Yes, and it was, you know, a slow realization, and I say slow meaning like within a few days, within those few days.
	It escalated very quickly.
	When was the first time that you observed something that, from your perspective, seemed to be different about Robbie or this issue?
	That next morning, I started to see, I saw him whispering with my sister, kind of, about some stuff, and it was kind of when he was realizing a little bit what was going on, and he wasn't really talking to me about it at the time.
	I observed, he just had this look Shame.
	Confusion.
	Then I could tell there was a panic.
	And like, I didn't really know what was going on, but I could sense that he was just processing and scrambling a little bit, trying to understand.
	Now, was this early in the morning?
	Monday morning?
	Sunday morning.
	Sunday morning.
	Did there come a time when it appeared to you to be escalated or be more intense?
	So, we had gone to bed that night and I woke up probably like two in the morning and he was on his computer.
	And I could tell he was upset.
	So I asked him what was going on.
	And he just kind of explained that there was a lot of things happening on Emily's memorial page and there was a lot of videos of him being posted and things were being posted and they were saying really horrible things about him and about Emily and I could tell He was really upset.
	And he was up deleting things.
	He was just blocking delete, block delete, block delete.
	And, like, it just wouldn't stop.
	And he couldn't sleep.
	The, uh...
	By this point of time, Melissa, had you planned, had you and Robbie planned Emily's burial?
	Funeral?
	I don't know.
	What type of service were you planning?
	Because we didn't have really any roots in Connecticut, we were, my dad had just passed away from an accident a couple of months before and we wanted to bury her next to Emily, or we wanted to bury Emily next to my dad.
	And so we were flying to Utah where he was buried to hold the service and to bury Emily.
	And so we just started, it was hard.
	We were trying to plan the services and Bobby just couldn't be present.
	He was very distracted.
	He wasn't...
	He was just very nervous.
	I'm trying to keep compels.
	Pretty good job.
	You said it, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the degree to which it went from a handful of things to more, how would you describe that?
	An assault.
	Just a full-on assault.
	Assault.
	A full-on assault.
	Just, it was So intense and the words that people were using were so scary and horrific and just the things they were saying about my sweet daughter.
	And this isn't the first week prior to her being laid to rest?
	Things like, watch your back.
	We're watching you.
	We're coming after you.
	And your daughter.
	Just horrible things.
	They called Emily a whore.
	Just the most horrific things that you could ever imagine.
	Just calling Robbie a liar.
	That we're gonna burn in hell for what we've done.
	Just...
	We couldn't focus.
	I couldn't focus.
	He couldn't focus.
	it just was this onslaught of just non-stop coming after us and coming after our friends.
	In terms of the services in Utah, did you have to make any special arrangements there in light of what was did you have to make any special arrangements there in light of And if so, can you just describe how this impacted your ability to say goodbye to anyone?
	So we were told because they had made arrangements like within our church for the police to be there and told us about how the police would be there and they would escort us to the grave site and like a lot of the other families we were told that you know protesters would most likely or could have the possibility of coming to the grave site.
	Honestly, because things happen so fast and we're used so quickly against us without us ever anticipating those things would be used against us.
	Photos, just everything.
	You know, there's just this paranoia.
	You know, her service was supposed to be about her life.
	And the whole time I'm scared of what...
	People are going to take a picture of me walking in and use that to abuse my daughters or abuse, like, my husband or use it against me and, like, every little thing we did, I was worried that people were going to come to the viewing and take pictures of her things and take pictures of her so we didn't have the casket open, you know, like...
	You mean you didn't...
	You didn't open the casket because you were of these flies that were circulating?
	We'd heard that at someone else's child's funeral that someone had taken a picture of their kids.
	I just couldn't handle it.
	And I was so distracted and like we couldn't think of anything.
	We were so worried.
	Like what if someone came into her funeral?
	What if...
	People started yelling or protesting and came inside.
	Like, every little thing we did, I was paranoid and he was paranoid.
	Like, we just shut down.
	We were just zombies.
	I don't even hardly remember what was said on the day of the funeral.
	They stole that from me.
	And what about Robbie?
	What was your observations about Robbie?
	You know, he put it on a face.
	But he was terrified.
	He just, around everyone else, he just kept his face down, did what he was supposed to do.
	But behind closed doors, he was really scared.
	Has that anxiety, that fear, that concern ever gone away?
	Thank you.
	No.
	Never.
	It's still there.
	We've had to make accommodations to, like, mitigate the anxiety.
	those accommodations are like now a part of our routine did you receive threatening letters and death threats over the years your state sustained Sustained.
	I'll ask Robbie.
	Were there things that you did in your life to try to honor and keep alive and remember Emily in the face of all this?
	Yes.
	Can you tell the jury about that?
	It was really important that Robbie and I felt like it was really important to try and protect her memorial page.
	And we really wanted to make sure that we honored the sweet things that people were saying.
	And that we didn't want someone to steal something away from us.
	Did you establish a foundation in yourself?
	Yes.
	We actually did two non-profit organizations.
	One was Emily Parker Art Connection, which is 100% of the proceeds that we put in.
	The donations that we got went to other organizations that helped children We're going through trauma or illness through art therapy.
	And so we have different programs that we donate those proceeds to.
	And then Michelle Gay, the mother, Josephine Gay, the sweet friend of Emily's, Like I said, I didn't know anyone at the school.
	I didn't have any connections.
	I didn't know how to even reach out to another parent.
	But when I found out that Josephine had died, I knew I had that RSVP on the birthday invitation that Emily was going to, and so I had called Michelle, and we instantly bonded and became sisters.
	And we would talk and process through the grief together and as a result of that we started thinking about all the lessons that we had learned from that day at our school because we would go to these monthly briefings where they would tell us, you know, exactly what had happened and we felt like Communities across the world should know what we learned because there were just simple things that could have helped.
	Simple things that could have saved their lives.
	And that was really the genesis of Safe and Sound Schools.
	Safe and Sound Schools is our nonprofit organization.
	That's the organization that you founded.
	You and Ms. Gay founded in honor of your two children.
	Correct.
	Who were friends.
	Right.
	And can you just give the jury the, what is the mission of Safe and Sound organization that you founded?
	Yeah, so it's essentially a school safety nonprofit organization.
	We provide, our website is like a resource center for school communities.
	We provide training, tips, tools, programs that empower schools to keep their children safe.
	Now, I want to establish that you yourself, Robbie is a plaintiff in this case, is that right?
	Right.
	You yourself decided not to be a plaintiff in the case.
	Right.
	Can you tell the jury why that is?
	Sure.
	Safe and Sound Schools got an onslaught of lies and things being thrust at them, and we had to tread really lightly to make sure we didn't get flooded with people coming after us.
	And I was afraid that if I joined the lawsuit, essentially, I would be bringing kind of a wave of attacks on the organization, and I didn't want to do that.
	So you were afraid that you'd be jeopardizing the organization?
	Yes.
	Now, did there come a time when you and Robbie decided did there come a time when you and Robbie decided that it was time to move?
	Yes.
	Can you tell the jury about that?
	So it had been very overwhelming to live in the community and we were always getting emails that people were coming into town and we had to Isolate ourselves.
	We felt isolated anyway.
	We didn't want to go out.
	Just the whole thing was just, it was a lot.
	And because we didn't have roots there, Emily wasn't buried there, our kids really didn't have a lot of connections, we started to look for other job opportunities.
	And in the fall, Robbie went and interviewed and got a position out in the Pacific Northwest and By the end of that year, we were...
	Which year is this?
	So this is all in 2013. So within that same year, by the...
	I think right after the year anniversary, we moved.
	So one of the reasons you moved to escape This type of assault that you've described?
	Yes.
	They were sending letters to our home, threatening letters, still the death threats constantly in those letters, and we just wanted some anonymity.
	We wanted to be anonymous, and Robbie especially just wanted away from that.
	And did Robbie and you believe that by moving you could escape it?
	We were hoping that it would be hiding, essentially, restarting, that maybe they'd also lose interest if we weren't there, and we were kind of anonymous and just away from everything.
	And, you know, he had changed a lot that first year, and I felt like it would be healthy for him.
	So you moved to Washington?
	Correct.
	Did you...
	Were you able to outrun these assaults?
	No.
	Would you hide from them?
	We tried.
	Tried a lot.
	We tried everything we could think of.
	And can you just give us -- I'm sorry, almost done, okay?
	Can you just give us one or two examples of the type of things that you had to deal with out in Washington?
	We had people still find us and send us letters to our homes, and we lived in a couple different houses there, and they still would find us.
	We had people who were nearby There were sent us letters and emailing us, people saying that they saw us.
	It's just like watching us from afar.
	Just nerve-wracking to be watched and not know you're being watched.
	And we got a security system.
	And it started really negatively affecting our kids.
	You know, the videos and the lies, like, that never stopped.
	That was always present, and that was always something that, you know, we had to deal with.
	And I think you're a member of the church community out where you live in Washington.
	Yes.
	Have these lies Have these Jones lies infected the people in your church?
	Yes.
	Can you describe how these lies have infected the people in your church?
	You know, it's a very, it's a very conservative group and they're sweet people but, you know, we're constantly being told about You know, my brother thinks you're liars.
	He says terrible things about you guys all the time, and I try and tell him I know you.
	And he doesn't believe me.
	He thinks that this is all lies.
	I mean, that happens on a regular basis.
	People telling us that the people in their lives that live where we live don't believe us and think we're horrible people, regardless of the association.
	It's like this constant threat.
	I mean, even just this weekend, I had three people at church come to me and say that.
	I mean, three different people just volunteer the information and you're just paranoid and the people within your own group are turning against you and they don't believe you.
	Wait, what do you mean three people?
	Did they say the exact same thing?
	Essentially, I had three different people tell me that That they had a relative or a friend that didn't believe in Sandy Hook and that they were defending us or trying to explain that what we had gone through was true.
	So they were going to bat for you with their relatives?
	Right.
	But they weren't, like, I don't know that I've ever heard anyone who's gone to bat for us be successful in convincing anyone.
	And that's scary to know that they're everywhere.
	Can you just, and this is my last question, okay.
	Okay.
	Can you just explain to the jury, from your observations, whether and if so, how this has changed the robbery that you Went to school with that you knew was a middle schooler and went to high school with and married.
	What is this, these lies done to him as his wife?
	It's stolen so much of him.
	He It's very withdrawn.
	Doesn't talk to people in the almost 10 years since this has happened outside of just the Newtown families that lost loved ones.
	I don't think he's made a single friend.
	He doesn't look up or talk to people.
	When we go to church, he sits in a corner and he has his head down the entire time.
	He doesn't interact or engage people.
	I've tried to make friends.
	I've tried to bring couples over and he's quiet.
	He's withdrawn.
	He doesn't talk to anyone.
	He doesn't trust people.
	He...
	He...it's like he's at a moment's notice.
	takes an offensive stance when we go places.
	Because he's worried about people encountering us.
	If anyone looks at us, he immediately grabs us and puts us behind him.
	It's just bizarre things.
	He will never park the front of the car into a parking spot.
	He backs into everything so that he can pull out quickly.
	So if someone comes and tries to talk to us when we're getting into our car, he can get in and just drive out without having to back up.
	Every single time he gets in the car, when we go to a restaurant or anywhere public, he has to sit where he can see the whole room and it's just he's hypervigilant all the time.
	He became very distrustful of people and their intentions and what What they wanted from him.
	He was paranoid that no matter what he did, it would follow him.
	At work, he's very withdrawn.
	He goes and he sits in his call room most of the time.
	He doesn't really engage all that much with his coworkers.
	I would say the most painful is just how it's changed his view about himself.
	I don't want to read that move, I'm sorry.
	He felt so much shame.
	And he felt like it was his fault that all of this happened.
	And he felt like it was because of him that our family got attacked and all the other families got attacked.
	And he beat himself up for it.
	And he felt like he had to fix it.
	He felt like he had to take it on and hold it in himself.
	And he became very angry.
	And he would never take it on us.
	But when he would go to work, especially when we still lived in Sandy Hook, I thought he was going to get fired all the time.
	Because he had to come out somewhere.
	Write these emails because there was all these politics like hospital politics just it's a norm like it just happens and like he had no filter and just would say awful things like you never say to your boss and he just no filter and would say these things and he just he changed it wasn't it He was so reserved and he would come home and he would tell me the things that he would say and it was causing so much anxiety.
	I thought he was, I absolutely thought he was going to lose his job.
	You guys, I know I said I had one more question.
	I'm sorry.
	I definitely didn't have just one more.
	But you talked about that and now you guys are married for how long?
	It's almost been 20 years.
	At the time, it was like 11, 10, 11 years.
	And has your marriage had ups and downs like other marriages?
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely ups and downs.
	Anything like this?
	No.
	Nothing.
	And the shame that you talked about, he was ashamed of making the statement?
	He was ashamed that he, for whatever reason, Like, whatever happened, what he ever did at the beginning where they came after him, he felt like it was just this moment, this lapse, and he just felt like it was his fault that he did it.
	Okay.
	Thank you, Alyssa.
	Ms. Trudy-Goskrup, do you want to take a five-minute recess or – It's too early for the afternoon.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So you may step down.
	Take your phone and watch yourself.
	We'll be alright if we just take five minutes.
	Sorry.
	That's right.
	So I'm going to see if I can print the jury charge out too.
	We're going to take just a five-minute bathroom break.
	This will not be our afternoon break for the staff, so we'll see you in a couple minutes.
	take all these notes.
	Before we bring the panel up, can I just see council on the sideboard please?
	So I don't know if your offices are working on it.
	I have not proofread it, and I didn't finish the damages of the defamation section, but I don't mind forwarding it to your building.
	Okay.
	Or I can finish it up at the next break and get it to you.
	So what do you want me to do?
	Do you want to wait until...
	I mean, because I don't care.
	You should be able to send her back to her.
	That's what I'm thinking.
	Okay.
	I can actually read it now.
	Well, since I'm a one-man shop, I can't do two things at once.
	I'll defer to my hand because I don't have any idea.
	I'm just thinking second courier over at Alamont.
	This is the Christmas book.
	All right.
	So I'll try to proofread it and finish this section over lunch, but I'll send it to you.
	I'm gonna send it to Ron.
	I mean, yeah, but I'm gonna send it to Ron now.
	That was just the bathroom break.
	So, Ron, if I send this to you, I don't know what it is.
	Okay.
	Well, if it isn't, you can...
	I made a million changes.
	I made so many changes.
	I made five million changes.
	All right, you want to get the jury and I'll send this to you.
	If I didn't send it to you, can you just get it from Lisa?
	All right.
	All right.
	And then you'll all talk to each other and see if you want to have your discussions between 9 and 10 tomorrow and then meet with me from 1 to 2. I'm thinking that might make more sense.
	Agreed.
	And I mean, I will be here so that if you have your discussions and you're ready for me before 10, I could come out and deal with it.
	Okay.
	All right.
	The record will reflect that the entire panel has returned.
	Thank you again for your patience.
	Please be seated.
	And whenever you're ready, Attorney Maddie, you may call your next witness.
	We're ready, Attorney.
	Thank you.
	I'm sorry I keep asking.
	I drink so much.
	Good afternoon, sir.
	Watch your step, please.
	and just remain standing and Ron will swear you in. - Raise your right hand.
	You solemnly swearer sincerely affirm that the evidence you shall get concerning this case will be in truth, the whole truth is nothing but truth, without being done or upon penalty of clergy. - Yes. - Thank you, you may be seated.
	I just need you to state your name, slowly spelling the last name for the record, and state what you did. - My name's Robbie Parker.
	That's P-A-R-K-E-R. And I live in Washington State.
	Grab yourself some water.
	Does this have ice?
	I love ice.
	I don't think we have ice in the whole building.
	No, you're good.
	You're good.
	Just push it down.
	Oh, okay.
	Uh-huh.
	Thank you.
	It's cold.
	So thank you.
	Hey, Robbie.
	So we're just going to take our time.
	I just want to acknowledge, obviously, you've been in the courtroom here while Alyssa was testifying.
	Yeah.
	It must be very difficult to hear somebody speak about you in the whole courtroom for very personal matters, right?
	Yeah, it's tricky.
	And I...
	Sorry, I just wanted to acknowledge that.
	Yeah.
	I mean, she used the word embarrassing a lot when she talked about us dating, which I didn't know she felt that way.
	So that was hard.
	That was hard.
	You don't share that.
	So, Robert, you're Emily's dad and you're Madeline and Samantha's dad.
	Yeah.
	I'm sure that the jury's seen you here.
	You've been coming out here ever since trial started, right?
	Yes.
	So we're nearing the end of our third week.
	Correct.
	How many times would you say you've been back and forth since the beginning of the trial to go home?
	So I've been flying out every weekend.
	So I leave on Sunday night and I get here on Monday.
	And then I'm here all week and then I'll fly home Saturday morning.
	And sometimes I have to work.
	And so I'll get some time in at work and I get some time with my girls.
	And then I come back.
	And you and Alyssa have been keeping different travel schedules because she With the kids and be back from work and things like that.
	Yeah, I've got the best mother-in-law that anybody could have.
	So she's been helping out with that.
	And it's still, you know, Alyssa still has a house to take care of.
	So she makes sure that everything's prepared for the week.
	And she has a schedule written out for her mom.
	Girls are in school.
	They are now.
	There was a teacher strike for that first week.
	So that had a scrambling a little bit.
	But Alyssa got it taken care of.
	And you've had to take a lot of time on work to be out here for these three weeks, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But it's been important to you, DJ? Absolutely.
	And is it important for you to have the opportunity to testify before this jury about your experience and your family's experience?
	I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
	Now, when you...
	You are...
	During your normal life, you're a physician assistant in the neonatal intensive care unit at a hospital system out in Washington.
	Yeah.
	I'm going to ask you a little bit more about that later.
	And I promise you, so I'll spare you the embarrassment.
	I'm not going to go through meeting a list in middle school and Hanging out in our softball games and all that.
	But I did want to talk to you about your upbringing, where you grew up, your family, and kind of what led you to Weaver State for college.
	Sure.
	So I'm the fourth of five kids, and so I grew up very easily overlooked a lot.
	I was even born on New Year's, but I was the second baby, so my parents really didn't get anything new or special.
	They didn't get any presents for me being the first baby, and I just was another boy.
	But I was born in Utah, and when I was a year old, we moved to Texas.
	And that was important because I feel like I developed a really keen observation of what real barbecue should taste like.
	And then I became a big fan of like Texas Rangers baseball.
	And so when I, just jumping ahead, when I was debating on taking a job here in Connecticut and you're making your pro-con list, I had to put, you know, there's Yankee fans and stuff like that as part of my decision-making process.
	So we lived in Texas for about 10 years and then moved back to Utah.
	And like Alyssa said, I just had a love for just things that I observed around me and always wanted to try and figure out what that was.
	My parents were really cheap and we never had any cable or anything like that.
	So the only TV I got to watch was like NOVA and nature shows and stuff on PBS. Is that where you developed an interest in science?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I was in a Bill Nye generation.
	So this will be embarrassing.
	So I actually would record some of his stuff so I could repeat some of the experiments if I had the materials.
	Alyssa mentioned that you all went to different churches, and she also mentioned that you'd been on a mission.
	Can you tell the jury what that is and how that fits into your faith and what that experience was like?
	Yeah, I mean, so growing up in the church that we did, I don't know if she mentioned it, being able to serve a mission is something that you can volunteer to go do, and it's a two-year commitment, and you can get sent anywhere in the world.
	It was something that I had wanted to do ever since I was a kid.
	It initially just looked cool and kind of, you know, you could go here or you could go there, but you could also go to Idaho, so there's some gamble in that.
	So I was lucky enough to go to Brazil, and it's something that I really, really loved.
	How old were you when you did that?
	I was 19. So you said that's right after high school?
	Right, yeah, I went to a little bit of college and then went on the mission.
	And when you were coming up through high school, before you went to your mission, were you in sports?
	You mentioned the Rangers.
	Yeah, I was.
	Like in high school, we fortunately went to a high school that didn't have really good sports teams, so I was able to make the team.
	And so I ran cross country and played basketball and baseball.
	Now, I'm skipping ahead now, but because you mentioned that you were able to make the team in high school, when you went to Weber State, you found another way to get involved in athletics, right?
	Well, that was actually before.
	Both before and in high school and then at Weber State.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay, go ahead.
	Tell us about that.
	Now I'm embarrassing Alyssa.
	So in high school I got this job.
	There's a minor league baseball team in town.
	And so in the summer I got this job just being an usher at this minor league baseball team.
	But the mascot got fired for It's okay.
	He was fired.
	Anyway, I was talking to the boss one day about not having a mascot around and we were just kind of joking about it.
	And he said, do you want to be the mascot?
	And I was like, yeah man, whatever.
	And then the next day he said, we're getting the suit dry cleaned and you can start on Friday.
	So I became a mascot for a baseball team.
	What was the mascot?
	He was a velociraptor.
	His name was Augie.
	I mean, I joke around about this, but I fulfilled my childhood dream of getting paid by a professional baseball team and having my own baseball card and kids asking me for my autograph.
	And so when I was 16, I'd already hit my ceiling.
	Well, yes and no, because you then were a mascot for Weber State, right?
	Yeah, I wasn't good enough to get a sports scholarship, so I was offered a cheerleading scholarship because that fell under the umbrella of being the mascot.
	So as a freshman in college, I got to hang out with all the cheerleaders.
	And you were the mascot for Weber State as well, yeah?
	Yeah, his name was Waldo.
	Tell me about the mission.
	So you went to Brazil, you're 19 years old, never been to Brazil.
	I think you didn't speak a language.
	Not yet, no.
	And you dedicated two years of your life to mission work down there.
	Yeah.
	Can you just tell us a little bit about that?
	Mm-hmm.
	So when you go on a mission, they'll send you to a very specific area, so it wasn't like I got a...
	I went to the equivalent of Oklahoma, Kansas of Brazil.
	Just a lot of sugarcane, really kind of flat.
	I didn't get to go to the Amazon or to Rio or anything like that.
	But you just get an opportunity, especially at a young age, to See how other people live.
	See what challenges they have.
	And you're constantly in a position that you can serve.
	And it's a proselytizing mission.
	So, I mean, you do want to teach people.
	Share your faith and stuff like that.
	But ultimately, it's just about serving.
	And you really develop a really strong love for the culture and the people that you're serving.
	And this mission was part of your Mormon faith, your member of the Mormon church.
	Correct, yeah.
	And I take that experience like that with a profound effect on your life.
	Yeah, it should.
	I mean, you're impressionable at that age.
	It does.
	I believe it makes you just a much better person.
	And being a male, I think it makes you mature a little bit faster than maybe if I just had just gone straight into college the whole time.
	And did you pick up Portuguese while you're down there?
	Yeah.
	So you come back from your mission to go to college and you and Alyssa start dating and marry, get engaged and marry your relative to the student after a while.
	You're still an undergrad?
	Yeah, I mean, what was amazing about that two-year stretch was My parents were horrible letter writers, and so, and Alyssa wasn't.
	And so we just, we grew.
	And again, I mean, she has her life, and she's growing, and she's maturing, and she's encountering all these things, and we just got to share that with each other.
	So when I came back, I was really nervous that maybe we had grown apart or whatever, but we were able to pick up right where we left off, and somehow she was still single.
	So that's why I snagged her up really quick.
	You should have been nervous about the teeth situation.
	And even after you all decided to get together permanently, and then Emily came relatively soon thereafter, right?
	Almost.
	It was about three years.
	In our Mormon culture, that's a long time.
	We decided to start trying to get pregnant.
	It was more of a struggle than we anticipated.
	Is that something that you and Melissa always wanted to be parents?
	I mean, yeah.
	Speaking for me personally, I just remember wanting to be a dad, even when I was 15. I umpired Little League baseball games and would referee basketball games and stuff like that for the rec.
	I just loved being around kids.
	I would see how parents interacted with their kids, good and bad.
	And I just always envisioned myself being a dad.
	I even had a goal about wanting to be done having kids by the time I was 30. So that by the time I was 50, they'd be old enough and out of the house.
	But I'd still be young enough to be able to kind of do the same thing with grandkids.
	And so...
	Is that part of the reason that you wanted to go into neonatal intensive care as a career?
	It's a really tender patient population.
	My dad was a respiratory therapist and he worked at a children's hospital.
	That's what took our family to Texas.
	And when I was like seven years old, we were at the hospital for something and he said, do you want to see some babies?
	And I was like, sure.
	And I thought he was going to take me like in front of like the Where all the newborns were, and he took me into the NICU, and I was just blown away.
	These tiny kids, and they're in these incubators, and he was at a pretty big facility, and they had some experimental stuff going on, like new ventilators and things, and so he was explaining all that to me, and I just, I knew...
	Because of some childhood things that happened in my life.
	Not feeling like somebody was there for me when some pretty awful stuff happened.
	There's something about seeing these kids suffering from things that weren't their fault and they needed somebody there for them.
	So I developed a love for them and I wanted to work in a NICU since I was like seven.
	These are premature babies?
	Yeah.
	I want to talk to you about Emily.
	Please.
	We saw Emily, the painter, but she was still...
	Still young.
	She had two younger sisters coming after her, right?
	So what can you tell the jury about Emily's relationship with her sisters, Madeline and Samantha?
	Yeah.
	I mean, all the hard work it took for us to get pregnant with Emily really paid off because the other ones came, like, really fast.
	And so just being that close in age, they just had this connection.
	And it seemed like Emily was so mature for her age.
	I mean, Alyssa talked about how How well she could communicate.
	She could communicate with adults like that.
	And it was like she understood.
	She was, I mean, she was not even two years old when Madeline was born.
	She understood her role as an older sister and the caring and the loving that went into that.
	And in our household, Emily was this Amazing glue and bond because I was really busy at school and my clinical rotations had us moving every six weeks.
	And so we weren't in places where we could build friendships and stuff.
	And because Emily could talk, Alyssa had somebody to talk to.
	And then the girls always had somebody that could think of the fun game to play or what we were going to do in this, how to explore this new house that we were in for just six weeks or whatever.
	So she meant something for everybody, and everybody had their own really unique relationship with Emily.
	Can we pull up 549 just for ID? I don't believe there will be an objection, but why don't we pull it up for counsel as well?
	No objection, Judge.
	I'd offer it, Judge.
	Robbie, we can pull this up for you.
	So this is the trio of your daughters here.
	Can you tell the jury who's who?
	So this was in the fall of 2012 and I'm gonna brag for Alyssa.
	She's a wonderful photographer.
	So Emily is in the middle, Madeline is on Emily's right, so my left, and Samantha's the other one.
	So Samantha's in the striped sweater and Madeline's in the pink sweater, or purplish sweater?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And this pose, after she died and we would go through pictures, if there was ever a picture in any scenario with Emily and her sisters, she always had her arms around them.
	And not like, not like bros, you know, but like, just type, type it.
	Just that, I just, I just love these girls.
	And that's, that was her relationship with them.
	And they looked up to her a lot.
	One of the things that the jury heard when we showed the statement that you gave the night after the shooting was you tell the world that you had been teaching Emily Portuguese.
	Yeah.
	And can you tell the jury how that started?
	I mean, six seems a little young, but I guess you never started doing a young foreign language.
	So tell us how that started.
	Well, I always thought that's what I would do, is just teach my kids Portuguese.
	Because I just love the language.
	But when we came out here for the job interview, I knew nothing of Danbury, the area, or I just knew about the job opportunity.
	So Alyssa came, she actually did come with me for the interview, which I thought was really sweet of the company to make this a family decision.
	And we were driving around town with a realtor that was mentioned, and I'm noticing all these Brazilian flags, and I noticed Churrasqueria, which is a Brazilian barbecue place.
	And so I was like, what's up with all the Brazilian stuff here?
	And the realtor just said, there's a really large Brazilian population here.
	And then Alyssa kind of got really excited.
	She's like, And so that was really exciting, and I got to speak Portuguese a lot at work, almost every day at work, which...
	Because you were at Danbury Hospital.
	Correct.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, sorry, I'm trying to talk slower for the reporter.
	But we would be out and about, and if I heard Portuguese, like if we were at Costco or something, it was kind of fun to just strike up a conversation with people.
	And for Emily, it was almost like this, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
	So there's people out there that I can't talk to because they don't know what I'm saying.
	And so she started begging me to teach her Portuguese.
	And then it was even better when she would use it and go up to these people, just complete strangers at stores and stuff and just rattle off something.
	So it sounds like she was progressing along pretty well.
	She was ahead of every curve.
	You mentioned that And maybe you're saying this half and jest, that when you're thinking about coming out here, you're thinking about the baseball scene because you're a baseball fan, right?
	Right.
	And when you came out, did you have a chance to bring Emily up to Fenway Park to see the Red Sox?
	Yeah, this family that I took care of in the NICU, they're from Rhode Island, and they were visiting.
	And she was 26 weeks pregnant, so she was over three months before her due date.
	And she went to preterm labor while she was visiting.
	Her in-laws and Dan Berrien needed to deliver her kids.
	And so I took care of them when they were here.
	They stayed in the NICU for like 120 days and the dad, I mean he was a Red Sox fan so we would talk about that and we would watch games.
	I was doing these long shifts and he'd pull up his computer and we'd watch games together.
	So we had had an opportunity to go to Fenway, but that particular trip was Alyssa's dad had qualified to run in the Boston Marathon.
	And so in April of 2012, he came out to run in the Boston Marathon.
	And lo and behold, the Rangers were in town.
	And so he got something off his bucket list, and I got something off my bucket list.
	323, and this is already full, Your Honor.
	So, we have a picture, Robbie, of you and Emily at Fenway.
	Yeah.
	Now, you were new to the area, so you didn't know how dangerous it could be to where a ranger's hat at Fenway, I take it.
	I was somewhat aware.
	Okay.
	And just tell us, did you get a ball?
	What happened here?
	Okay, so we're driving to Fenway and I'm trying to explain to Emily what batting practice is like because we wanted to go to batting practice and I was telling them it's the way they practice and they get to hit a lot of home runs because the pitches are really easy in batting practice.
	And this is our best chance to get a ball.
	And I was trying to impress upon her that I've been going to baseball games since I was a little kid.
	I've never caught ball.
	I've never had a ball thrown to me or anything like that.
	And I was like, but batting practice is our best chance.
	And then by that time we were walking into the park and she asks me, So how many balls do we need to get so that everybody can have one?
	And she was looking at everybody in our family.
	And I was really taken back by that because I was being selfish just thinking about what kid I would have to trample to get a ball.
	And she was thinking of everybody else.
	And sorry to go so long on this.
	When we got that ball, I did have to outrun a kid.
	And he was coming from one way and I was coming from another.
	And I picked the ball up and everybody started booing me.
	Except Emily was jumping up and down and running at me.
	And then when I gave the ball to Emily, then everybody started cheering.
	And then Alyssa's there at the perfect shot.
	Any else to take you today?
	For the day in Boston.
	Yeah, we did.
	The old rangers won 18 to 6.
	It was a good day.
	And then after the summer, and we started in first grade Correct.
	And then she had finished off the year before in kindergarten as well.
	Yeah, when we moved here, she had started kindergarten in New Mexico, and then we were renting a place on New Fairfield, and she went to a school there for a bit, and then she had to finish at Sand Hook.
	So it was an odd year for her.
	She went to three kindergarten classes.
	You mentioned something just before about how everybody in the family, including Madeline and Samantha and Alyssa, everybody had their own unique relationship with Emily.
	And Alyssa was talking earlier about how, at least from her perspective, it didn't appear that Emily's interests and your interests always aligned, and yet you had a very strong bond.
	Can you just talk a little bit about that from your perspective about what that relationship, and everybody has different relationships with each of their kids, obviously, but what was your relationship like with Emily?
	So real quick, when she was born, I wasn't working in the NICU yet.
	But at the delivery, I could hear them talking about stuff like Emily's heart rate was dropping.
	And the nurses and the doctor looked kind of concerned.
	And I wasn't, again, I wasn't aware of what that meant like I do now.
	And the doctor looked at Alyssa and said that You know, she's pretty stressed out in there, and she really needs to get out.
	She's not liking it.
	It's kind of dangerous.
	And Alyssa took that as a dare.
	And so on the next contraction, she delivered Emily on one big push, head of toe, like, came all the way out.
	And everybody screamed, and the doctor made this, like, basket catch.
	And, like, Emily's, like, eyes were wide open.
	It was just an amazing experience.
	They wrap her up and they give her to me.
	I was so scared almost by how much I could love somebody so immediately.
	I've never felt as vulnerable in my entire life as I did that moment when Emily was looking at me.
	And then I took Emily over and handed her to Alyssa And I saw Alyssa look at her, and then I immediately knew that I was a third wheel in this relationship, because their connection was palpable in the room.
	But I'll never forget just how overcome I was by being able to love somebody so much, because that wasn't something that was very easy for me in my life.
	As far as our interests go, she didn't take to fishing as much as maybe I would have liked or other things.
	But she knew what I found interesting.
	And like Alyssa gave some examples, but baseball was one.
	She enjoyed coming and sitting next to me on the couch and watching a baseball game.
	The guy that hit the ball was a player named David Murphy.
	And so she made me, when I was watching a game, whenever David Murphy got up to bat, she wanted me to get her so she could come watch him bat.
	And so she knew how to connect with anybody and everybody, whether it be a dad who was incapable of drawing a giraffe or somebody at Costco checking her out, like checking our family out.
	She could develop a connection, and she had inside jokes with people I didn't even know that she knew.
	So, I probably want to take you into December.
	That...
	The jury's heard about your last moments with Emily while she was alive because you shared that with the world.
	You and she were up before everybody else and you were out the door and you said goodbye and I love you in Portuguese.
	I didn't need to set an alarm clock when Emily was alive.
	She always woke up early.
	So we had to set a rule that she wasn't allowed to get out of her bed before 7. And so when I got up and I piqued my head in her room, she was already sitting at her bed.
	She was really obediently waiting for 7 o'clock to happen.
	And when I poked my head in, she smiled and said, You were at work at Danbury Hospital when you heard that something's happening at school.
	Yeah, we were rounding on our patients.
	So we were talking with another family and talking about what was going on with their baby and what our plan was for the day, and I felt my phone in my pocket buzzing.
	I didn't recognize the number.
	I sent it to voicemail.
	And then afterwards, I stepped out and checked the voicemail, and I couldn't even get done listening to it because Alyssa was calling me.
	Your Honor, before we go any further, maybe we should take our...
	I think this is a perfect time.
	so we will take a 15-minute afternoon break.
	Can you refer to your honor?
	Sure.
	Okay.
	We couldn't hold up anything.
	We've been working on it since then.
	We may have a solution.
	I'm trying to figure that out now in a couple moments to just export the clips that I was planning to use in my exam structure now to a laptop that will connect to the streets.
	So, are they in our laptop?
	People give you ours.
	Are they ones you previously given us?
	I don't.
	She's working with our.
	I appreciate you all.
	Thank you for the offer.
	I appreciate you all.
	Sure.
	How much, like when will you know?
	Five minutes.
	And then if we're not ready, I'm not comfortable proceeding.
	No, no, no.
	But I don't want to wait another 20 minutes and leave them in there.
	Exactly, exactly.
	While we're up here, Judge, I had a chance to scan through the charge you gave us.
	Okay.
	The language that you were going to give on CUNIDX is not included in there.
	You made reference to, at one point, saying I will instruct you later about whatever.
	Yeah, I haven't proofread it yet.
	Okay, well, no, no, I just, I'd just be helpful to see that's all I see.
	I don't know if it was inadvertent or whatnot.
	I just haven't proofread it yet, and I'm too tired right now.
	Me too, but I just, Attorney Maddie wants to come back.
	So I did just glance at it for the first time at your proposed interrogatories and verdict forms.
	So I haven't really looked too much at it, but the big thing I noticed between the two of them is you have punitive damages, not just for the couple, right?
	And you don't have that in yours.
	you broke it down differently.
	Right, but in your, I thought in your vert form, you didn't have the common law punitive damages broken down.
	Are we interested in the political plaintiff?
	It's just as do you have a attorney's fees or do you not?
	Is it difficult or attorney's fees?
	No.
	Yeah.
	So, you can go ahead and say.
	It is that cumulative damages under common law are either attorneys, but you have the election of choosing either an affidavit of fees or submitting the retainer if you're going to get, you know, the third or whatever it is, then that's an election.
	It's been a long time since I've tried to submit.
	of the law until, but I guess the question of the term is, begs that question because it moves it for to decide that decision that we get something else.
	You get a huge rate, you're gonna want the taxes, you get a small rate, you're gonna want an average. - So, these will be high, click on the record, all the way we are going to determine the term, - Right, right. - which means these are costs, first, - Yeah, yeah.
	- Yeah, and then that, - So, why is it, why is it, the term is, I mean, everything's about that one.
	- So, you, you, so the other thing, you put a bit of economic loss, economic damages, there's no evidence of economic damages.
	- I think there is.
	- The, what, the security system?
	- No, Judge, Judge, in fairness, I've been all over that. - And acting in the club, whether they put enough for, because if they hadn't put enough for.
	talking about the Aspartame Economic Law Center?
	I'm talking about...
	No, put aside Cutler for a second.
	Just economic damages and non-economic...
	Yeah, no, I know, because that's a big issue.
	So just in general, economic damages, non-Cutler, economic and non-economic, the only economic damages I heard was the security system or something.
	But you're not claiming economic damages.
	Put aside Cutler.
	I don't think it makes sense to set this as a separate category.
	I mean, there's certainly evidence in the moment of whether it needs to be broken down in the way I'm saying it.
	what's the evidence that he brought out on his cross that was it no he brought out the amount oh yeah okay but yeah but the only number i got was from
	i'm not going to charge him on putting aside copper why would we charge him on economic damages That's what I'm...
	Right.
	Because I think you're most...
	And then the issue of the ascertainable economic law, that's an issue you may or may not agree on.
	But I think you're...
	Because I did not do the vertitorium and interrogatories, but I think you're basically on the same page, breaking it out for each point of view.
	The very formal tracks that you're in, you can figure out what the foul charge is going to be in a sense of what you do.
	Right.
	Well, but yours sort of breaks it down by cause of action, and yours breaks it down just by compensatory damages, right?
	And then emotional distress damages.
	Right, so maybe you can talk about that and figure out...
	That's what I'm thinking.
	And then I guess a couple of you can talk about tomorrow.
	I mean, there is the ascertainable economic loss question.
	I understand what I'm saying.
	I can tie in with a very strong position here on this issue.
	A couple of things, and the reason for that is the case law says that this is the review on a de novo basis, not expanding the defaults.
	And what's more, even with the defaults, it's not a subject matter jurisdiction, but you can raise subject matter jurisdiction anytime.
	So my claim would be that the court of the evidence says that as to those plaintiffs for whom there is no ascertainable economic loss.
	and the court may conclude that the court may conclude that the jury, but I think that as those plans
	for whom you've shown them, we're going to do a better job, and the question is for whom you've shown them, and speak to people who have to actually stand on the table, and if you're entitled to get a reasonable entrance in favor of clients, and if you're entitled to get a reasonable entrance in favor of clients, people who mentioned services, some of them might, but I think the others are going to Okay.
	You guys will talk in a moment.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Thank you for waiting.
	I think Ron told you all that we had some technological issues.
	Please be seated.
	The record will affect that the entire piano has returned.
	We were just, please be seated.
	We were just about to wave the white flag and say, okay, you can't get it fixed.
	We're going to have to come back tomorrow morning and just as I was about to bring you in, they fixed it so we can continue a little bit longer today, okay?
	Okay, so that was good news.
	Whenever you're ready, it's ready.
	Thank you, Your Honor.
	Thank you for everybody's patience.
	I Probably right before the break, we were discussing the morning of December 14, 2012 here at the hospital.
	When you found out that something had happened, And you checked your phone and you were describing how, as you were checking the alert on your phone, Alyssa called you.
	Yes.
	Tell the jury about that call and what you then did next.
	So I was listening to the voicemail that was left and it had just stated that the schools in Newtown were in lockdown because of a reported shooting.
	And then that's when Alyssa called.
	And so she was panicked and just said, did you get that voicemail?
	I was like, yes.
	And she's like, what should I do?
	And she had just dropped Madeline off at preschool, and she was doing some Christmas shopping.
	So I told her to hold tight.
	I kind of went into my, let's figure out what's going on, let's make a plan, let's kind of go.
	I went into that mindset.
	So I started trying to find out any information I could, and then I wanted to relay to Alyssa what I think she should do, or what the next best steps were.
	And what did you determine the two of you should do?
	Well, in the beginning, the first thing I had heard was to not let anybody go to the school.
	They were going to get things figured out.
	So that's what I told her at first.
	They advised not to go to the school yet.
	That wasn't a good enough plan for Lyssa.
	So she went back and she got Madeline.
	And she went directly to the school.
	And then we started just communicating by text.
	And she would let me know what was going on.
	I asked her if she wanted me to leave the hospital and go to her.
	And she said that, she goes, no, because if Emily did get hurt and she went to the hospital, then you're right where she needs you.
	So I stayed at the hospital for a little bit.
	And where was Samantha?
	Samantha was shopping with Alyssa and then at the beginning when Alyssa got to the firehouse, they were with her and one of our neighbors whose son was also in the school, she was able to get her son and as she was leaving she said, do you want me to take the girls home?
	So Alyssa let her take the girls home with her.
	And then after some time, I take it you joined the list at the firehouse.
	Eventually, yeah.
	She mentioned that the hospital had been put in lockdown and I tried to leave.
	I was stopped by a police officer.
	He wouldn't let me leave.
	And so I ended up using my badge and I snuck into the back door of the emergency room.
	And I found somebody to talk to to see if any kids had been brought there.
	And he just looked at me and said, you should probably just go be with your wife.
	And he let me go out to Ambulance Bay.
	The jury saw the photograph of you and Alyssa leaving the firehouse.
	That would have been early mid-afternoon on the 14th?
	Yeah, I'd say mid-afternoon.
	You've never heard Alex Jones before?
	No.
	You didn't know he was broadcasting the Alex Jones show that day?
	No.
	Alyssa described just a flurry of activity over the next couple days.
	That evening, evening of the 14th, did you go to your church?
	Yeah, on the 14th you said?
	Yes.
	Our regional church leader just said that they were just going to hold an impromptu service.
	I didn't really know what to do.
	I didn't know what was appropriate to do.
	Should I go or should I not go?
	And then I decided to go.
	My little brother, actually, he lived in Danbury.
	He moved here after we did.
	That's James.
	Yes, my little brother James.
	So he came with me.
	And we went to the church service.
	I remember saying something there just to pray for all the families.
	And then I felt uncomfortable being there, especially knowing Alyssa was at home.
	And so I locked him at home.
	Alyssa described how the family and friends in Utah were starting to get inquiries from the press looking for people who had information about Emily and your family.
	And that that was the reason why you decided that you wanted to make a statement before others could start talking about Emily that didn't know her.
	But I want you to tell the jury that story from your own perspective about your process for deciding on the day after the shooting to make a statement about Emily.
	Okay.
	Just real quickly, Alyssa mentioned that her dad died in September.
	And The events surrounding his death were kind of well known in our community.
	So there was a little bit of media coverage about that then.
	Just on our local paper and stuff like that.
	But I remember them asking the family about, do you guys want to say anything?
	And initially saying no, and then just that being a thing.
	And I didn't want that to be a thing with us.
	It was distracting at the time.
	I remember in September when Ellis' dad died.
	And so initially, my phone was ringing, and I just wasn't answering it anymore.
	And then as that snowballed, and it wasn't just our immediate friends in Utah, but it was just these extended friends, and they were contacting people in New Mexico where we had lived for a short time.
	And I just remember feeling very protective over that information, especially about Emily.
	And I really felt this strong urge to To protect her in some way and so that's when I made the call to my friend Brad and told them to set the whole thing up and That's all I can remember is just I didn't have her anymore.
	I didn't know what that meant.
	And I didn't know what was going to happen.
	But I didn't want anything getting out about Emily that could be taken the wrong way.
	And the reason I wanted it to be videotaped and sent back to Utah was so that my words couldn't be misconstrued.
	I take it that you, well, when did you write it down beforehand or did you kind of just internalize what you wanted to say?
	Okay.
	I wrote like an outline.
	I just tried to brainstorm just what Emily meant to me and to our family and who she was.
	I don't know what I was doing.
	I was just doing my best to try and honor her.
	And you were expecting just one reporter to be there, right?
	Correct.
	As I had envisioned it was, I would show up.
	There would be a reporter there.
	I would get to talk to them and kind of set some boundaries about what I was wanting to do and what my expectation was and then expected that to be followed and then Like Alyssa said, to have it recorded and then sent back to Utah.
	So Utah was the only place I could think of where anybody would care what I'd have to say about what our family was going through.
	But when you came out of the church that evening, it wasn't just one reporter, was it?
	No.
	Can you describe to the jury what you looked out upon when you walked out of the church?
	Well, when I showed up to the church, it was so light out.
	I had some family members that had just gotten in, so I wanted to spend some time with them.
	And everything was kind of, everybody in that time would do things for you.
	And so everything was getting set up, and I didn't know what was going on, and nobody told me or anything like that.
	So I come out, and it was already dark, and there was just these bright lights.
	And I just remember bright lights, and I couldn't see anything.
	I couldn't see anything behind the bright lights.
	It was just really confusing to me.
	And so I stood there for a minute, because again, in my mind, I wanted somebody to come up and tell me what to do.
	Like, how do I do this?
	I've never given a statement like that.
	And so I stood there for a minute waiting for that to happen until I finally was just like, all right, well, I guess I just need to start.
	So, Rob, if we can start with you, I'd like to watch the first couple minutes of that statement.
	This is in as Exhibit 2. Why don't we play Exhibit 2. We're
	going to come onto the microphones now and make a statement that it looks like the family is there and they're getting ready to come to the microphones so we can close the seminar.
	Okay.
	So my name is Robbie Parker.
	So my name is Robbie Parker.
	My family is one of the families that loved the child yesterday in the standing of a elementary school street in Connecticut.
	My family is one of the families that lost a child yesterday in the standing of a elementary school street in Connecticut.
	I've been contacted by so many people and agencies wanting to know how we're doing and I just thought that this might be the best way to share those feelings with everybody.
	I've been contacted by so many people at agencies wanting to know how we're doing and I just thought that this might be the best way to share those feelings with everybody.
	First of all, I'd really like to share those feelings with everybody.
	First of all, I'd really like to offer our deepest condolences to all the families who were directly affected by this shooting.
	It's a horrific tragedy and we want everybody to know that our hearts and our prayers go out to them.
	This includes the family of the shooter.
	I can't imagine how hard this experience must be for you and I want you to know that our family and our love and our support was out to you as well.
	At this time, our thanks go out to so many people, so many friends and family and complete strangers who we don't know for all the love, condolences and support that you've given us.
	My daughter, Emily, would be one of the first ones to be standing and giving her love and support to all those victims, because that's the type of person that she is.
	Not because of any parenting that my wife and I could have done, but because of the gifts that were given to her by her Heavenly Father.
	Robbie, when you came out of church, who was part of the group that came out with you?
	My mom.
	I love you.
	Sorry, she passed away so it's hard to see her.
	my dad and my little brother and then our church leader.
	As you approached the microphone, you smiled. - No.
	Do you remember that moment?
	I do.
	What happened there?
	It's crazy how many things can be happening at once.
	I have this thing where when I get nervous and I try and relax or I try to calm down, I'll chuckle or I give this laugh.
	I would do that when I play basketball before I shoot a free throw to calm myself down.
	Just try and tell myself, everything's okay, it's cool, you got this.
	As I started to walk away, my dad, he thinks it can be funny sometimes.
	And he said, as I started to walk off, he's like, go get him, Augie.
	And it was just a dumb dad joke.
	Augie was the name of the mascot that you were in high school.
	Right.
	- It kind of became a nickname. - You weren't expecting him to say that.
	I wasn't expecting anything that was happening around me.
	So, no.
	But it caught your attention and you flashed a smile.
	Well, yeah.
	I mean, if you're dad making a dad joke, you have to give him some credit, I guess.
	And you know that that clip of those first few seconds, as you're approaching the microphone to memorialize your as you're approaching the microphone to memorialize your daughter, has been played by Alex Jones countless times.
	Do you know that?
	Yeah.
	Did you know, Mr. Parker, that I asked Alex Jones about that in his deposition?
	I... Have you ever seen this deposition?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	So I do remember that and reading that in the deposition.
	Your Honor, what I'd like to do now is play as an admission section of Mr. Jones' deposition.
	Which one?
	You go fifth.
	That day, after the Sandy Hook tragedy, um, the father of one of the children spoke to the president's church.
	Did you know that?
	Yes, sir.
	Did you watch that live?
	I watched it.
	I don't remember what I watched in life.
	When did you watch it?
	I know I've watched the Robbie Parker videos every time.
	I'm talking about the statement that Mr. Parker gave the day after the shooting.
	I've watched it many times and I watched it near the back of that time.
	I don't remember 10 years later how I watched it or exactly when I watched it.
	What was this child's name who was murdered at Salem?
	I don't remember.
	You've repeatedly referred to Mr. Did you know?
	You know that the jury's gonna see videos that you're talking about Mr. Parker, correct?
	Okay.
	Do you know that?
	I do.
	I mean, I'm sure.
	Okay.
	And so do you deny that you call Mr. Parker an actor?
	I may have called him an actor.
	What's your name?
	You're going to continue to play it?
	You thought he was acting when he described his daughter's personality as being one who would consult victims.
	Is that right?
	Yes.
	He was asserted.
	He was an actor over many years.
	Did you not?
	From my memory, I said it looked like he was an actor.
	Okay.
	And you said that when you claimed he was an actor, what we meant by that was that he didn't actually have a daughter named Emily Craig.
	Mr. Pippen?
	Yes.
	You did have a daughter named Emily, didn't you?
	Yeah.
	Robbie, you gave that statement on December 15th.
	I think if I remember the time on the screen, it was 521, according to the network that broadcast.
	Does that sound about right?
	521?
	I believe so, yeah.
	I think I said I'd meet them there at 5. Do you have any idea that immediately after you gave that statement, Infowars started to cast suspicion on you?
	No, I didn't even know that when I gave it that it was being broadcast anywhere.
	Your Honor, I believe this was admitted at the break.
	What I'd like to do now is play Exhibit 550 and start with Exhibit 550. This is a video that's been admitted as having been broadcast two years later On December 14, 2014, called Sandy Hook Film Censorship Efforts Backfire with Rod Dube.
	Play it.
	Play it.
	Happened, and we saw the live feed coming off CNN. We saw Robbie Parker.
	We actually rewound it back on our DVR and watched it again here at the office, and we put the You know, this looks odd.
	This looks odd.
	Have you ever seen this video before?
	No, I've never seen that.
	You heard Mr. Do say, we put it on the air almost immediately?
	That's what I heard.
	Why don't we continue with the same video, 551. But just the, yeah, the smile and the demeanor, I got my degree in theater.
	I've seen people get into character, and that, to me, looks like he's getting into character.
	Just to remind everybody, this is two years after Sandy Hook.
	They're saying we're getting into character.
	Yes?
	You had no idea that Alex Jones was unleashing a campaign of lies against you and the other families, did you?
	No.
	That they were posting to their millions of followers that you were to be suspected.
	Sustained.
	Did you have any idea that they were posting to their millions of followers that you were to be suspected?
	No.
	Suspected of what?
	The next day was the 16th.
	Sunday, yeah.
	What do you recall about the 16th?
	I remember being up early, if I slept at all, and going to...
	Just getting online and going to the Facebook page because I didn't know what to do with my emotions.
	I didn't know how to share them.
	And there was something about going and seeing things that friends and family had said about Emily and sharing memories of her.
	It was really touching and it It's like the one piece that helped me still feel grounded to the earth because I knew that.
	I knew who Emily was and to hear people share their experiences kept me stable in a way.
	On the morning of the 16th, as I was looking at those things, I started to see these comments.
	You liar!
	Why were you laughing?
	And links, you know, like when you put a link on something, it'll show like a still shot of a video or something.
	And there was all these links and these pictures of me smiling.
	What were you smiling about?
	What's so funny?
	Before that moment, Robbie, had it even occurred to you that in that moment as you approached the mic that you had done something wrong?
	No.
	No.
	Take us through that week, Robbie, as you start to experience the beginning of this campaign.
	Just take us through those next couple of days and what this incoming is looking like.
	So it was early in the morning, the first time I'd ever heard of it.
	It had just been hours since I'd given that statement.
	It hadn't even been 48 hours since Emily died.
	And that really threw me off.
	I was talking about how I felt somewhat grounded, and I was looking for something to keep me stable because my compass was spinning.
	I didn't know which way was what.
	And seeing these comments broke that connection I had, that stability.
	It was just like this littering of things, and there was still interspersed the love and support, and then these comments, and the love and support, and then these comments.
	And I showed it to my sister-in-law, and she just tried to reassure me that there's just, you know, there's just these crazy people that this is what they like to do.
	They just like to take things and exploit people or whatever.
	And that made me feel a little bit better.
	For some reason, I knew that Alyssa had requested space, and she didn't want to be bombarded with questions, and we are having to start to plan a lot of things.
	We had an appointment to go to the morgue to see Emily on Sunday afternoon.
	And so trying to get my head wrapped around that stuff, but then these things were happening, and I didn't want to tell Alyssa about it.
	I immediately started to feel very protective over this information, not getting to anybody that I cared about.
	And so over the next few days, as I'm simultaneously trying to figure out and plan, what are we going to do with Emily's body?
	How are we going to get it to Utah?
	Who's going to pay for that?
	What are those logistics like?
	How do I start planning a funeral?
	I've never planned a funeral before.
	Trying to get all these things figured out, and all these people are coming, and they're very helpful, but they're asking you lots of questions, and what do you want, and what do you want?
	And I'm trying not to overwhelm Melissa.
	And amongst all this, people keep coming up and telling me, have you seen this?
	Have you seen this?
	Did you know about this?
	Meaning, have you seen what they're saying?
	Exactly.
	Because other people went to the site in our family and in our circle for the same reasons that I did.
	And so they felt like they were needing to protect me.
	So no matter what, I couldn't get away from it.
	And what was just this littering of comments by Tuesday became just a burning trash pile.
	Tuesday.
	So, Sunday is the 16th.
	Monday is the 7th.
	Correct.
	That day was important because that was the day that we flew back to Utah.
	It's also the day that Alex Jones published A video about Sandy Hook.
	This is Exhibit 3A. This is December 17th.
	Can we play 3A, please?
	They're doing it!
	They're staging it.
	That's what my gut tells me.
	It's never been wrong.
	And you were flying home to Utah that day.
	Okay.
	For an elite service?
	I'm sorry, that was the 17th.
	We flew out on the 18th.
	You flew out on the 18th?
	Yeah.
	Stayed with family?
	Stayed with my mother-in-law.
	On the 19th, it's Thursday.
	Okay.
	Correct.
	Wednesday.
	Wednesday.
	When was Emily's service?
	Saturday.
	So that would have been the 22nd.
	Did you know that on the 19th, Alex Jones put out a statement directly about you?
	I was unaware of that.
	Why don't we pull up Exhibit 61, just the headline.
	The Royal Institute is unaware of the judge's verdict.
	Overruled.
	See the date there?
	December 19, 2012. Father of Sandy Hook victim asks, read the card seconds before tear-jerking press conference.
	You see that?
	Yes.
	Did you say any such thing?
	No.
	Did you know at that time that referring to you, Mr. Jones stated to his audience, it appears that members of the media or government have given him a card it appears that members of the media or government have given him a card and are telling him what to say as they steer So this needs to be looked into?
	I didn't know it in those specifics, no.
	Did people start looking into you?
	In that first week between my statement and Emily's funeral, these were the things that were posted on Emily's Facebook page.
	Links like this, showing this content.
	And so I was aware that things were being said.
	I was aware that those things were happening.
	I tried to make sense out of it.
	I would try to read a little bit of it, to try and just get a grasp of it and understand what was going on.
	So I was aware in that context.
	And the links that you were talking about that people were posting to Facebook page, were you able to identify those links as being associated with InfoWars or Alex Jones?
	Yes.
	I didn't necessarily associate InfoWars and Alex Jones together.
	I remember seeing his face on videos that were still shots on videos.
	And I remember seeing InfoWars logo, but it wasn't until sometime later that I was able to merge the two into the same entity.
	I asked Mr. Jones about that statement he made in his deposition.
	Let's start with...
	12, please.
	12 is not 12, is it?
	No, no, I'm sorry.
	This is Mr. Jones's deposition.
	We've identified this particular clip as 12. That's just our only attorney number.
	Sorry.
	Did you hear us say something there, Mr. Parker?
	Something about the start?
	Is that what you heard?
	I can't really make it out.
	Okay, but that's what it sounded like to you.
	Start?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Let's play clip 13, please.
	send it to position.
	That's what you said, right?
	It appears that members of the media or government have given to a court, correct?
	I mean, I guess I picked up on some of that area.
	I don't remember the Sure, you're welcome.
	Did you see anybody in the video that we watched you Mr. Parker part?
	No, I must have been inflating it with some of your guys wrong.
	Getting into January.
	Well, before we get there, what was the date of Emily's funeral service?
	December 22nd.
	And by December 22nd, three days after Alex Jones told his audience that this needs to be looked into, can you describe for the jury what you and Alyssa How you and Alyssa were dealing with what she described as this assault.
	It was something that was, so we were trying to make plans for a funeral and we constantly had to keep making contingency plans.
	Well, what about this?
	What about this?
	What do we do if somebody shows up?
	What do we do?
	How are we going to control the media?
	How are we going to make sure the media doesn't take any pictures that then could be used nefariously?
	You started to try and control everything and everybody around you because you've lost all control.
	And the moment that really sticks to me is we were trying to get ready for Emily's viewing, and we're at the funeral home in Utah, and it's gonna start.
	And we had debated, do we leave these pictures up of Emily?
	Do we leave her artwork up?
	Do we show these people that are coming who she was?
	Because we didn't want people taking pictures of it.
	And we were scared about people we didn't know.
	There was going to be hundreds and hundreds of people, because it's a very loving community.
	And even people that didn't know us wanted to share their love and support.
	And I didn't know who was there and for what.
	About 15 minutes or so before the viewing was supposed to start, and they were going to open the doors, I couldn't find Alyssa.
	And I'm asking people, have you seen Alyssa?
	Where is she?
	And I come out of the room where Emily was and around the corner there was this coat closet.
	And Alyssa was inside of the coat closet and she was curled up.
	Just sobbing and saying, I don't know if I can do this.
	I don't know if I can do this.
	I don't know if I can do this.
	Is this a good time, Attorney Maddie?
	That'd be fine, thank you.
	All right, so we are going to end at this point.
	I told you I would try not to give you a couple minutes to get out, beat the traffic.
	Ron will collect your notepads.
	I know that you'll continue to obey the rules of juror of conduct.
	I'm going to be here with the attorneys at 9 to do some matters, but we will start evidence with you at 10 o'clock.

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