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Aug. 2, 2022 - Depositions & Trials
02:37:54
Alex Jones Defamation Trial: Sandy Hook 'Hoax' Lawsuit - Day Six, Part One
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Thank you.
that Don't check.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Do whatever you want.
I would simply suggest that as a way to pursue I
Thank you.
- This is now a session, an audible. - Good morning.
Good morning, Your Honor.
I may sit down.
I decided to come in before the jury, just have a quick conversation with the lawyers.
I was just thinking last night about today, and some of the parties, I'm not all here, that today is probably going to be among the more emotional days, potentially heated,
and so I want to make it clear that if at any time I feel like If a performance is being given or this is being used for some purpose other than the trial, I will shut down the live stream and potentially throw out the news media as well.
Okay?
You'll pass that on to your client?
I will.
And you are here.
So we're good.
On that note, Mr. Ball shared with me a demonstrative he plans on using Ms. Lewis during her direct.
It's about a five-minute long professionally produced videotape set to music of her in her home about her good deeds.
We'd object to it as hearsay and 403.
Her testimony comes from the witness chair in the form of question and answer and not in the form of a five-minute long video set to music.
So first off, it's not five minutes.
It's about three and a half minutes.
Secondly, it's used for demonstrative purposes Thank you.
Thank you.
some of the audio visual that she has created for others.
Everything that is in that demonstra, which I would not be seeking to put into evidence, has already been said in this trial in one form or another, and nothing is really assertive for the truth of the matter there.
It's really just for her to demonstrate, as she could just through her own testimony, but just in a better way so that the jury understands it.
Can you send it to me in an email?
I sure can.
We also send it to Karee Ward, my staff attorney.
Don't we're going to need that before the first break?
We are not, because Mr. Heslin went on first.
Okay, then that's fine.
I'll take it on your back.
Thank you.
You bet.
I'm sorry let me just look at this real quick sorry let me just stop this real quick I guess it took a minute to bring them in are we gonna need anything else from no?
okay so you can go ahead and bring the jury in and I'll have right back to this email okay so we have a good time to do that okay so we have a good time to do that okay so we have a good time to do that okay so we have a good time to do that okay so we have a good time to do that okay so we have a good time to do that okay
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okay so we have a good time to do that okay so we have a good time to do that okay so we have a good time to do that Good morning.
Everyone may be seated.
Thank you so much.
Come have a seat here in the witness stand.
And then if you say it, then I'll say it again.
There's water.
They're microphones.
If you are loud enough, you won't have to lean in too far.
I'll let you know if we can't hear you.
Remember to let the lawyers completely finish their question before you begin your answer.
Take your time.
If you don't understand something, ask for clarification.
Try to answer out loud in words.
And try not to do this.
It's not an easy thing under any circumstances testifying, particularly this.
Okay?
The only thing I ask is that everybody in the council speak loud.
I don't hear that well.
Okay, great.
Let's use the microphone, and if you're not going to use it, you'll project your voice.
The chair moves, right?
Can you just move the chair a little closer?
Now, is one of these the speaker?
They're both, yes.
The long, skinny one is the one that projects into the room.
Okay.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Mr. Hesslin, if you would, introduce yourself to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
My name is Neil Hesslin.
I'm the father of Jesse McCord-Lewis, killed at Sandy Hook Elementary.
December 14th, 2012. Mr. Hesslin, why is today so important for you?
Today is very important for me.
It's been a long time coming.
I feel very good about being here today.
To face Alex Jones, to hold him accountable for what he said and did to me, to restore the honor and the legacy of my son that was tarnished by Mr. Jones.
Mr. Heslin, you might have seen yesterday that Mr. Jones' attorney said that he would be here today.
You might have known that it was understood he would be here today.
How does it make you feel sitting in this courtroom right now that Mr. Jones is not sitting here facing you?
I think it's a disrespect and I think it is a cowardly act of Alex Jones not be facing me here in this courtroom.
I've been here for a week and a half.
And my final testimony, Mr. Alex Jones does not have the courage to sit in front of me or face me on this morning.
Explain to us how it is that you expect to restore Jesse's honor with your testimony and through this process.
It's very important for me to have this trial and this testimony today to reason to hold Alex Jones accountable and, if it were worse, for their actions.
The statements and the remarks and the comments made by both Infowars and Alex Jones repeatedly have tarnished Jesse's legacy, questioning whether he died, whether he's still alive.
I can't even put in words how difficult it is to lose a child, regardless of that age, under such brutal It's something that safety should have never been touched or brought
into a conspiracy theory, a hoax.
I can't even describe The last nine and a half years of the living hell that I and others have had to endure because of the negligence and the recklessness of Alex Jones and his propaganda that he has peddled for his own profits and success.
Mr. Heslin?
Tell us about when you first remember hearing of this ugly, profane conspiracy theory that Sandy Hook didn't happen, that Jesse wasn't murdered.
Well, I wish the fact that in those statements, I wish that Jesse was alive.
And that's not the case.
Can I speak up for us a little bit on this so that we can hear you, please?
I said I wish that was the case, and the fact that Jesse was alive.
But that's not, he's not here with us.
I became aware of the statements, the remarks, that it didn't happen, Sandy Hook.
That Jesse didn't die in 2013. And how did it make you feel?
In 2013, months, weeks, days after Jesse's murder, hearing that people were beginning to believe this thought that that in fact did not happen.
It was very disturbing.
I was suffering at that time, mourning the loss of my son.
I just couldn't fathom or understand why people would question It's such a horrific tragedy and a loss.
I still to this day can't fathom it.
It's taken me years to understand the dynamics and the depth of this conspiracy theories and the hoax that are out there and promoted by Alex Jones and InfoWars.
And it goes a lot deeper than just statements and the remarks And the broadcast, it resonates out to followers.
And what was said about me and Sandy Hook itself, it resonates around the world.
It's not just in this courtroom, it's not just in Austin, it's not just in Connecticut and Sandy Hook.
It resonates around the world.
And as time went on, I truly realized how dangerous it was.
And the extremists that believed this and followed Alex Jones and InfoWars and other sources that repeat this, the conspiracy and the hoax.
My life has been threatened.
I fear for my life.
I fear for my safety and my family's safety in my life.
Mr. Heslin, did you hear what was being said by Alex Jones and his associates as a denial that Jesse ever existed?
Did you hear it that way?
Can you explain that a little better?
Denial?
Denial by who?
When Alex Jones and his associates said that this never happened, did you hear them saying that Jesse never existed?
If it never happened, then he never existed.
I think you've told me that that's the way you've heard it from time to time.
Yes, it is.
How did...
Hearing other people tell you essentially that Jesse never existed make you feel.
It's hurtful.
But would you like to step back and finish that first answer in the first part of that?
When it's stated that Jesse's He did live.
I was blessed with him for six and a half years.
He's been going one and a half times.
And I cherish those days, those years, with those years, with Jesse.
Thank you.
Thank you, Tom, Mr. Wilson.
There are some tissues there, Mr. Heslin.
The allergies are bad here, I guess.
Sorry.
I'm all right.
I know what you're doing today is incredibly difficult.
It is.
Mr. Heslin, it reopens the wounds that have never really I hope after this trial and the outcome of it, I'll be able to put this behind me.
Mr. Heslin?
I'll put an end to what's been said about Jesse, myself, and Sandy Hook and the tragedy.
Tell us if you would about your son, Jesse.
Before you do that, Melissa, if you would, please put up 3PX.
And I'm sorry, but can you scoot a little closer to the microphone?
because you work hard to do you'll notice that i've put up a picture of jesse How old was he when this picture was taken?
That picture was taken about two weeks or so before Jesse was murdered.
That was his class picture.
And we didn't get that class picture until a week or so after.
After he was killed, or maybe after the funeral.
Dedicated that picture I carry with me every day.
My hair in my coat pocket.
Tell us about Jesse, if you would please, about the child that Alex Jones said never existed.
Jesse was six and a half years old when he was legally murdered.
He was an energetic young child, happy, always wanted to help people.
My heart was big as gold.
He was a force when he came into the room.
It was like a tornado came by.
He had a very strong, clear voice at a very young age.
If he was standing behind you, you'd think it was a 40-year-old adult speaking to you.
He was an old soul.
He might feel with my thoughts.
He loved school.
He loved horses.
He loved dogs.
He loved animals.
Some of the things he enjoyed most in life were soccer, fishing.
We have a crop stream near our home.
We love that.
He was learning to ride a bike just before he got killed in the summer of 2012. One of the The most fun memories were, in school they were just learning to add.
You know, it's the basic, two plus two is four.
And then they learned that if you put a zero on that, it would be, you know, twenty would equal forty.
So he figured out the more zeros you had, the bigger the number you could end up with.
And he was so proud of that, that he could add such large numbers.
And simple as it airs the bucket.
He was just so proud.
I have the Lexi.
I don't remember.
They always say, "I'll teach you sight words, Dad." I'm sorry.
I'm about to work.
I'm going to get some breath on that.
Love to earn money.
Collect bottles.
Do whatever little odd jobs he could.
Do what he could do with her neighbors and friends.
Just to make money.
I'm going to go to the next one.
Left to save his money.
He collected coins?
Yeah, the coins he collected were the coins he made and worked in.
The coins that came from the balance of the bottles that he collected and canned and returned.
One of the biggest drills and most profitable things for Jesse was collecting scrap metal, taking it to the scrap yard.
He was driving down the road, you know, he'd get that scrap metal if it was out by the curbside.
We had a pile in our backyard.
Periodically we'd go get loaded in one of the trucks and he'd take it to the scrap yard.
He'd make his money up.
And afterwards he'd always want to stop at Mickey D's for a treat.
A snack he referred to now.
But he was I know this is hard, Mr. Hessler, and I'm very sorry.
I'm sorry.
I want to switch gears just a little bit.
I don't want you to have to relive this day.
I'm sorry.
Too much.
I don't want to change.
I don't want to apologize.
You do not.
You do not need to apologize.
Okay.
I'm sorry that we are here.
Tell me when you first remember hearing about the man Alex Jones.
I heard the name Alex Jones and I heard the name Infowar early on, at the beginning of 2013. I don't recall if I actually connected both Alex Schultz and Infowars together.
And the statements and the comments that were being resonated by both Alex and Infowars took a little bit of time to compile and put everything together.
I tried to ignore it.
Tried to put it on my mind.
Got feet into it.
As time went on, it escalated quite a bit more.
There was a lot more out being peddled on the internet.
social media platforms was being brought to my attention more often, more frequently.
It was to be asked by rational, insane people why people would say these things.
Why would they, in their minds, believe or state that this tragedy and this murder didn't happen?
That Jesse wasn't killed?
my people accused myself and the others to be a crisis actor, fake phony.
It took me a long time to really understand the dynamic so that I couldn't explain that.
I couldn't give the people an answer.
Just crazy people out there in this world.
And then I realized that We have psychopaths like Alex Jones.
Their motives, I learned.
You didn't watch or listen to Alex Jones, did you?
No, I never listened to Alex Jones.
I never followed him.
The only time I did watch him was when things were brought to my See what was being said about me, about Jesse, about the tragedy.
When these things are being said about you, Sandy Hook didn't happen, that you never held your child, that your child never existed, are you having encounters with people in the public about these horrific lies?
I do.
I have.
Right up to this day.
Talk to us about some of the earliest encounters.
There's so many of them.
There's such a variety of them.
The encounters or interaction.
Many of them are on the internet.
Many of them are Anonymous phone calls.
An extremely large number of people come up to you in the community or through travels.
It just became a way of life.
An awful way of life to have to live.
Is it still that way of life today for you?
Pardon?
Is it still that way of life today for you?
Is it still that way of life today for you?
People encountering you in the public and pushing these awful lies and conspiracies that Alex Jones has broadcast?
Yes, it is.
Sometimes it's more often than not.
Sometimes there's fewer encounters or interactions.
It varies.
There's no rhyme or reason how often or how frequent, but overall, it's frequent.
It's substantial.
And when it happens, Do these encounters often specifically mention Alex Jones and Infowars?
Often they do.
A lot of times no one's mentioned or in particular.
Every time this happens, and we're going to go into a few of these, but every time this happens, does it reopen that wound, that scar of Jesse's murder?
It does.
It brings back memories.
It brings back flashbacks.
that day.
It brings back the memories of when Jesse was alive, was to have those memories.
Pictures of But when you think about those memories, when you look at pictures, it's sad.
It's easier to try to put it in the back of your mind.
I might not think about it, but I'll look at pictures.
We've been in this trial, heard about the interview that you gave to Megan Kelly.
You've seen some stuff with that, and obviously you lived it, right?
Pardon?
You lived it.
You gave an interview to Megyn Kelly at her request.
I did.
Tell us why you did that, Mr. Hessler.
I did that interview for a couple of reasons.
I hope so.
Richard Alex Jones and Trying to get him to stop what he was saying and doing.
I never attacked Alex Jones, viciously or negatively.
In fact, that interview was on Father's Day.
Hopefully I even wished him a Happy Father's Day.
I remember thinking and stating how lucky Alex was.
He's a very lucky man to have his children with him.
And I hope he has them for the rest of his life.
I wouldn't wish upon Alex or anybody the loss that I sustained through a child.
He's very blessed to have his children.
God bless him with that.
I don't have that anymore.
Before you gave this interview with Ms. Kelly, did you ask Alex Jones and his show to stop with what they were doing to you?
Did I ever ask Alex Jones to stop what he was doing?
Do you know that he was asked, let me ask another way, do you know that he was asked before this interview to stop what he was doing?
I do know that.
I heard that he was.
I personally didn't ask him before that.
I never had any attempts or ways that I knew him to contact Alex Jones or to reach him, to personally tell him.
The only way I really had was through the media.
And after that, Megyn Kelly interviewed.
In April of 2018, you first became aware of Owen Schroeder, a broadcaster, a newscaster, and employee of Alex Jones.
Correct.
I'm going to play Let me see how long these clips are.
You would remember if you held your dead kid in your hands with a bullet hole.
That's not something that you would just misspeak on.
So let's roll the clip first.
Neil Heslin telling Megyn Kelly of his experience with his kid.
At Sandy Hook Elementary School, one of the darkest chapters in American history was a hoax.
I washed my son.
I buried my son.
I held my son with a bullet hole through his head.
Neil Heslin's son Jesse, just six years old, was murdered along with 19 of his classmates and six adults on December 14, 2012 in Newtown, Connecticut.
I dropped him off at 9:04.
That's when we dropped him off at school with his book bag.
Hours later, I was picking him up in a body bag.
Okay, so making a pretty extreme claim that would be a very thing vivid in your memory holding his dead child.
Now here is an account from the coroner that does not cooperate with that narrative.
We did not bring the bodies and the families into contact.
We took pictures of them, of their facial features.
It's easier on the families when to do that.
There is a time and a place for a person personal in the grieving process.
But to accomplish this, we felt it would be best to do it this way.
And you can sort of, you can control the situation depending on your photographer.
I have very good photographers.
It's got to be hard not to have been able to actually see her.
Well, at first I thought that.
And I have questioned maybe wanting to see her.
Okay, so just another question that people are now going to be asking about Sandy Hook, the conspiracy theorist on the internet out there that have a lot of questions that are yet to get answered.
I mean, you can say whatever you want about the event.
That's just a fact.
So there's another one.
Will there be a clarification from Heslin or Megyn Kelly?
I wouldn't hold your breath.
So now they're fueling the conspiracy theory claims.
Unbelievable.
We'll be right back with more.
Will there be a clarification from Hesley?
Sir, I would never take this moment away from you.
You have the floor.
Yes.
I did hope my son would pull a hole in his head.
Something had on that.
Many other people saw Jesse with a bullet hole in his head.
It was an open casket.
Jesse had, as it states on his death certificate, he died of a gunshot wound to the head.
There was a wound on him.
Looking down at him, it would be on his left, or his right, right side, it would be on the right side.
There was a Mark, where he was gazed by a bullet.
It was described to me as bullet splatter later.
It was clearly a game, but he was gazed by a bullet.
Fatal shot was to his forehead, and it just blooded Caroline.
Just to the left side, the center of his forehead.
shattered skull exited the rear left is skull Exit wound was out of the size of a softball.
Asking for a clarification of that is tantamount to saying it didn't happen.
How did that make you feel?
I'm back done.
That wound head.
bone fragments.
Facial material.
That's...
that's the one I can.
At the funeral, again, who eyes not could touch Jesse's head, It was very fragile.
Basically, it would have fallen apart.
He died two feet from his teacher.
There's more about that.
The gunman's gun jammed.
At that point, at one point, Jessie knew that.
At that moment, Jessie yelled, "First classmates to run." They didn't.
Dying to put him alive today because of his actions.
11 survived.
Two of them in the bathroom.
Jesse died of him.
It's been brought to my attention and mentioned to me after by the parents.
The three of the super papers.
the runners.
Thank you.
I went into school after.
The clock was cleaned up.
You know, the way to describe it was like a combat zone.
The block was shot out.
The toilets were shot out and shattered.
The doors were shattered.
Point of entry.
The glass still remained on the ground.
Walk up to the school, the front door is there, to the right of the front door.
It was a big plate glass.
But, Adam Langsler shot the glass out and went into the building.
when I was Rampage.
I spent a lot of time in the classroom, myself, alone.
I don't know the exact spot Jesse's body was.
School was later torn down.
And We relocated on the same site.
The site where the murders occurred in the school, in the building, in the classrooms.
That's referred to as the sacred ground.
It's described as a silent memorial.
It's just a mound with some trees December 14th.
the time of murder occurred.
Mr. Hesslin may I ask you a question?
Yes, sir.
Every time that you hear this lie that Alex Jones has pushed, does it make you relive everything you just told us?
Yes, sir.
Yes, it does.
I relive parts of it.
How traumatizing is that to you, sir?
There's no words for it.
I get anxiety.
The stress level goes way up.
I get chest pain sometimes.
I don't think it's affected my health greatly.
More so in recent years.
I wake up.
Anxiety attacks.
I'm so sorry.
I just can barely hear you.
I'm sorry.
Can you please speak up and go closer to the microphone?
I'm sorry, Your Honor.
It's just I need to be able to hear you and I need the jury to be able to hear you, okay?
I understand that.
And I apologize once again.
Don't apologize.
Just talk about it.
I apologize for apologizing.
I wake up at night with panic attacks sometimes.
I had chest pain.
I ended up in the hospital several weeks ago with chest pain.
I didn't think I was having a heart attack, but I did.
I wasn't in the stress and anxiety that brought it on.
I hope with the outcome of this trial, that will subside a lot.
I'm going to make a lot of the food.
My whole goal is to hold Alex Jones accountable and be able to walk out of this courthouse very soon.
Put this all behind me.
my wife mr. Hessel is holding Alex Jones accountable for what he's done necessary in your mind to move on with your life It is.
This trial is the only way I can restore my credibility and reputation.
It's been destroyed and damaged by these constant attacks and Peddling a conspiracy and a hoax.
At one point, I was caught.
I was accused of being fired.
I highlighted about nothing.
I'm here in this courtroom, telling the truth today.
Something I remember, on the opening statements, the defense attorney said, lie to a jury, lose the jury.
I would never come to lie.
I have never lied about any of this.
I truly believe and strongly what the defense counsel said.
very true work very good work Mr. Hessen I understand that your house has been shot up shot at All people yell Alex Jones' name in InfoWars.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
Tell us about that, if you would, please.
A few years back, my home was shot up.
vehicles were shot up in my yard.
That's disturbing.
That's our case.
This trial was supposed to happen a month ago, April I guess it was.
And it was postponed due to bankruptcy filings.
The proximity of that time when this case was put on stay.
But he drove by my home, shouting out the window, "Alex Jones." And it sounded like gunfire coming from the vehicle.
There's no way to have to live.
You're aware of other threats to the other families of the Sandy Hook School shooting?
I am.
And how does that affect how you deal with what is being said and the lies that Alex Jones is pushing?
I have my own correction shape.
So you have to make it.
I'm not making it for you.
I object to...
Legal objection.
...relevance to other things.
Overruled.
Thank you, Your Honor.
You may continue, Mr. Heslin.
I have my own safety to worry about and my own threats.
I am aware of many other threats and situations that have happened.
Some of them overlap.
Of all the families, not just the department in particular, it's disturbing.
I feel bad for the other families that they have been doing that, too.
I adore it.
I have to deal with it.
I don't wish her done any way.
How do you recover from losing a child?
I'm going to go to the next one.
It took a long time.
You never recover from the loss of a child.
I accepted what happened right after it happened.
I didn't like it.
I couldn't change what happened.
But I knew I had to accept it to be able to move forward.
I was able to move forward.
But I never, you can't get over the loss of a child.
Many of us have lost our parents.
I've lost mine.
Many have lost siblings.
The loss of a child is no comparison to that.
When you lose a child, you're losing part of yourself.
And it's just a feeling I can't describe.
It's an emptiness.
You feel violated by the loss of the child.
You feel like you've been violated, robbed.
Those feelings don't go away.
They haven't changed in nine and a half years.
Mr. Heslin, how do you recover from someone lying about the loss or the murder of your child?
Hold them accountable for their actions.
Being able to have the opportunity to stand up.
Clarify the truth.
The first time I was going to make a cake, I was going to make a cake.
And I don't have any more of an answer.
I hope that I could provide an answer and I hope I have closure to it after this trial.
There have been some questions about an apology versus a payment for damages.
If you could, explain the difference between those two in your mind.
Alex Jones' apologies are worthless at this stage.
Any apology would not be sincere.
It's come too late.
His apologies in the past, there was one that we saw earlier in this trial.
It wasn't a genuine apology.
And he continuously went on, recklessly, The carnival barker would peddle in his propaganda and his lies.
I don't know if Alex is even capable of a sincere apology.
What was the other part of the question?
The apology that you told us about now?
Now I'd like for you to compare that, in your words, to what you're requesting in this case.
Damages and money and why.
On the monetary side of it, I believe it's just the only way to really put a stop to it and prevent the effect from happening anymore.
It's clear an apology hasn't looked for Alex Jones.
He hasn't been sincere.
When you give an apology, you don't turn around and say, I'm sorry, and recklessly do what you did before.
You've apologized.
That's not an apology.
It's just useless words.
There's got to be a strong deterrent for Alex Jones to prevent him from peddling this propaganda and to put stop to what's being said to me and about the tragedy and about Jesse.
And with that, I'm able to restore my credibility, my reputation, and Jesse's legacy and honor as he so much deserves.
We would have been 16 years old.
And all I remember of that was a six-year-old, six-and-a-half-year-old boy.
Always be six-and-a-half.
We've been driving them, probably, instead of riding a bike.
In high school.
I wouldn't be here today if he was here.
As a beginning to restoring Jesse's honor, I'm going to ask my last question.
Share for us if you would one of your favorite memories.
It's Jesse.
I'll push that.
I'll push that.
Two members, but yeah.
I sure came.
The best memory was the day he was born.
The first hell of a Miss home.
He was a big baby.
He was eleven pounds when he was born.
That was the best memory.
Probably the happiest memory.
The worst memory is the day I made him to rest.
I closed the casket that day.
Went to the church, went to the cemetery.
I stayed in the cemetery until 9 o'clock at night.
Until the grave was covered over.
That was the worst memory.
Thank you, Mr. Heslin.
Thank you.
I appreciate your courage and your time today.
I don't have any other questions.
Alright.
Can you keep going right now Mr. Heslin?
I'm good.
Okay.
Mr. Reno? - Good morning, Mr. Husson.
Good morning.
As a father of a six year old myself, I am very, very sorry for the loss.
Thank you.
God bless you and your son too, or your daughter.
God bless you too, sir.
I have just a couple of questions and I don't want to keep you on the stand very long.
There were a couple of things I just wanted to clarify.
When, or I'll turn it this way, but was the first time you actually watched Alex Jones on the screen speaking when it was brought to your attention by Lenny Posner in 2018, the Owen Schroeder report?
Yes, that's correct.
Thank you.
I understand How painful this whole experience must be for you.
And I respect your choice, whichever way it went.
Have you chosen to watch the rest of the broadcasts that we have in evidence, or have you chosen not to watch any more broadcasts?
Could you clarify that?
When you say broadcast, are you referring to one broadcast or several broadcasts?
So, we have in evidence broadcasts from Infowars from 2012 and 2013 and 2014 and 2015 and 2016. And then we have the Owen Troyer Infowars broadcast in 2017. And my question to you is, I know you watch the Owen Scheuer broadcast.
Correct.
Have you chosen as part of this, what's going on here, to watch the others, or have you chosen not to engage with them?
Okay, thank you for clarifying that, sir.
I have watched, I don't know if it's all of them, I've watched A large number of numerous ones.
After it was brought to my attention by Lenny Posner, that's Noah Posner's file.
Noah was killed in the school shooting.
I did look a little deeper into broadcast clips.
But I never I never watched Alex Jones' show.
I became more aware of who Alex was, and he had a show or platforms or social media.
You told us that during the period before...
I'd like to refer you to the period before the Megyn Kelly interview.
Yes.
That during that period, before you went on Megyn Kelly, you were generally aware of conspiracy theorists and rumors online.
Is that correct?
Yes and no.
I was aware of the statements, the comments, the remarks.
It took a little bit of time to really put it together, what the conspiracy and a hoax was.
There was just so much of it, and it was all intertwined.
And as I stated before, it took me a long time to understand the dynamics and the depth of the conspiracy and the hoax theory and the hoaxters, which I don't even think was a word until the tragedy.
I think Lenny was the one that started that hoax, But I was aware of things on the internet.
Pictures.
The Super Bowl picture that we all saw.
That was, in my recollection, that was 2013. Clearly, Jesse was gone in 2012. I did see that picture.
And it was floating around the internet.
I'm not on the internet a lot.
I'm not a Email, social media, or anything.
Over the last few years, I've been...became a little more up on it.
Even phones, I still prefer an old-fashioned phone.
I hope that answered your question.
It does, and so what I took from your answer is that you were, although you've never seen Alex Jones' show, you were generally aware that there were a lot of people online that were engaging in conspiracy theories about The tragedy at Sandy Hart.
Is that correct?
I didn't know who they were or how many or anything.
Like I said, I just didn't know the depth of it.
You know, you go on the computer or somebody sends you an article or tells you to look a link up or something and you look it up.
That's about as far as it went.
I didn't compile everything together until it just grew on me.
I learned the connection between them all and how one feeds the other.
With Alex, He had a platform, and he had a very strong voice, and he had a lot of followers.
And statements and remarks and comments resonate to a lot of people.
You have other people that fuel that fire, the comments and lies and propaganda that's being repeated by InfoWars, or has been repeated by InfoWars.
And Alex Jones, in the way to describe it, Alex was the one with the mats who started the fire.
He's there with the tanker and other people are bringing pieces of wood and fuel in the fire.
That's because Alex has such a large platform through the internet.
What you just told us Is it fair to say that those are beliefs that you've developed as a result of your discussions with Lenny Posner and with your lawyers and with the expert witnesses?
You mean the statement I just made about the field?
There's an objection.
First off, I think that that directly calls for attorney-client communication.
Sustained.
Secondly, I think that it mischaracterizes the record that we've heard of this one.
Sustained.
So does that mean I can answer it?
No, sir.
He has to ask you a different question that doesn't violate the rules.
Okay.
Thank you.
The answer that you gave us previously about what you refer to as the intertwined nature of Alex Jones and people who believe in conspiracy theories, you came to that conclusion at some point after the Megyn Kelly interview as a result of your
conversations with Leonard Posner and others.
That's not true.
Maybe I could describe it a little better, but, you know, there was a menagerie of the comments, the statements, like a can of nuts and bolts, dump it out, and they're all there, stare until you sort it out.
And as I said, I didn't follow it.
I didn't investigate it.
But then, when it got more I had a, you know, I looked into it a little more and I sorted it out and that's how I put the connection together.
And no, it didn't come from Lenny Posner or my attorneys.
That was from my personal experience and my personal I put it into perspective for myself.
And this belief...
I'm sorry, sir.
And this belief that you formed, you formed it in or about 2017?
I don't Some before.
It just kind of developed more.
I put it more into perspective.
I don't really know when I started to kind of realize there was a conspiracy going on, a hoax theory going on.
But it took right up to today to really put things into perspective, the depth of it.
And I'm sure I'll learn more in the future.
Would you accept the possibility that the Pope's theory that no one died at Sandy Hook did not originate with Alex Jones?
I accept that As a possibility.
I'm not accepting or not accepting anything.
I heard what you said.
It was repeated by Alex and rebroadcast on Infowars.
Whether it originated there or not, I personally have no knowledge of where it actually originated, but it was broadcast and Publicized on, you know, through Alex and InfoWars.
So, it...
that peeled the fire and resonated around the world through his followers.
You've stated before that you have a vendetta against Ali Strings.
No, I don't think I ever said that.
I don't think I ever said a vendetta with Alex.
I stated, Alex started this fight and I'll finish this fight.
I don't have a vendetta with him.
Once we're done here, I... No, I don't have an ongoing vendetta with him.
just solely about what was said and done to me, and accountability and being responsible, and moving forward from there.
Would it refresh your recollection to take a look at your deposition that you gave in January of this year?
Yes?
Yes, I'll look at it.
Thank you.
Let me come over there.
Yes, it says, it says, "My vendetta is with Alex Jones and what was said and done to me." And that's what's got to be set straight.
My battle is with nobody but Alex and Schroer and Info-Mars.
When you use the term vendetta, a vendetta is a blood feud, right?
I don't really know if I'm classified at that, but I don't have a flood view without showing.
As I stated before, my battle with what was said and done to me, once we're done here in court, as far as I'm concerned.
My business with Alex has done.
Provided, you know, he never mentions me again.
Moves on.
No more conspiracy or hoax theories about Jesse.
I have no blood battle with Alex Schoen.
Would you agree with me, Mr. Heslin, that Prior to Owen Troyer using your name, neither Alex Jones nor any Infowars employee had ever said your name or Scarlett Lewis's name.
Objection, Your Honor.
Misleading question, because we do not have all of the records that we have firmly established over and over again.
So misleading and calls for speculation?
Absolutely.
Sustained?
To your knowledge, Before the Owen Troyer report, had any Infowars employee or Alex Jones ever mentioned your name or Scarlett Lewis's name?
I don't have that answer.
Generally, I feel, I don't know if you feel like that.
I feel like death is a very private event.
Would you agree with that?
Private and sacred, yes.
And that's every death, but especially the death of a child. but especially the death of a child.
I agree with him.
And it's sort of With Jesse's death, that wasn't possible because it was such a publicized tragedy and event.
I had a very emotional time.
It was Christmas again.
And there was...
That wasn't a possibility, unfortunately.
But I do agree with what you said.
I wish that was the case.
And there was, I mean, as you just mentioned, there was...
Media from everywhere in Newtown, pretty much immediately.
I didn't take that sight in or that scenery, but I do know there was a lot of reports on the tragedy, as with any major mass tragedy.
Would you prefer it if no media were involved Ever, when there's a mass tragedy like what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook?
Well, that's really an in-depth question.
I think definitely it's newsworthy, the tragedy.
I think it's something that should be covered by reputable media.
I think there should be as much respect and privacy as possible given to the victims or the directly affected.
That's almost an impossible task because the names become part of the news.
I mean, I wish I had Jesse with me, but the loss...
I don't want anybody to take you away.
but, you know, if I had to choose the way he died, and I'm not saying that like, you know, in a way of, I wish it never happened, but it wouldn't have been, it would have been, it wouldn't have been a massacre.
I wish I could have been a private I wish nobody knew about it.
But that's not to say I want to be real clear with the jury and everybody else.
That goes for the media, too.
I'm not saying I wish he was here, but I'm saying that there was a choice or a different...
I wish he had perished in a different way, if he had to.
In a private way.
Yes, sir.
Do you find it disrespectful when politicians and media pundits descend upon a mass tragedy and immediately use it to further political goals?
Rejection, relevance, speculation, disgusting.
It is not relevant, so that is sustained, and I will not respond to the rest.
Don't answer that?
No, sir.
Do you recall going back on the Megyn Kelly show after this lawsuit was filed?
I do.
And do you recall her asking you, "What do you want out of it, Neil?" I vaguely remember the question and I don't clearly remember my response to it.
Would you agree with me that your response mentioned nothing about money?
I don't recall.
How often do you go to therapy?
I've done some work now.
It was more frequent in the past.
How are you done?
I think I'm on a pretty good path of existence.
I need to get there a few more.
I'm sorry, sir?
I need the therapy still, you know, just to stay mentally until It's just good to be able to talk about it.
Have you ever wanted to go to therapy more often?
No, I wish I didn't have to go at all.
But I know it's at this time something that I need to do and something I should do.
But I feel it's important.
For me, anyway, everybody's different.
You've got to have a balance with that.
Where I'm at now, about once a month, it's a pretty good balance.
You know, maybe bi-weekly after this second back home.
How much does therapy cost you?
It's around $125 per session.
With Dr. Crouch?
Correct.
After the Sandy Hook school shooting,
did you become an advocate for gun control?
It wasn't my intention.
It was probably viewed that way.
I spoke and told Jesse's story, with hopes that will prevent any future tragedies like that or school shootings. with hopes that will prevent any future tragedies like that And I, you know, in the initial part after I told Jesse's story, it was something that I think everybody needed to hear.
On another note, I fully support, you know, better school security and a lot of improvements across the board with everything.
Everything can be improved upon.
You testified before Congress, is that correct?
I did, sir.
In December of 2012, Six days after the murder, you went on CNN and spoke to Piers Morgan.
True?
In that time, approximately.
I don't recall the exact date, but yes, I did.
A month later, you testified before the Connecticut state government.
Corrected.
A couple days later you went on, this is end of January 2013, you went on CNN again.
Refresh my memory, I don't know, but that would have been.
Would have been with Senator Chris Murphy, and again with Piers Morgan discussing the Second Amendment.
I don't recall that, but I do recall going on.
I was on CNN after the initial Piers Morgan, but I honestly don't recall the date or that, particularly with Chris Murphy.
Do you recall?
Or discussion with CNN about the Second Amendment.
Do you recall in February going on CBS after you testified in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee?
I don't recall.
A month later, do you recall coming out in the New York Daily News At a press conference regarding politicians.
I don't recall it.
That same month in March of 2013, do you recall appearing on CNN, the lead, and being interviewed by Jake Tapper?
I remember an interview with Jake Taffer, correct?
You're familiar with an organization called Demand Action that advocates for gun control?
Judge and I know it's sustained.
I'm sorry.
I'm going to go to the next one.
You testified earlier, I believe, on Direct, that after this trial was delayed in April of this year, somebody shot at your house while yelling the name Alex Jones and Infoboos.
Do you recall that testimony?
That's incorrect, sir.
Okay.
Change of words with that.
That's not truthful.
Well, you tell me what it is.
What I said was, So,
your testimony is that after the trial was continued in April, you heard somebody yelling, Alex Jones, and heard what you thought to be done.
I didn't state it was shot at my house at that time.
That's not truthful.
Would you agree with me that at the time of your deposition in January, three months before April, you had already stated that you'd been shot at?
That's a correct statement.
How many times do you claim that you've been shot at?
There was one incident that I'm aware of where my home was shot up in a vehicle.
I'm not aware of any other time.
It was short of what I stated about in April.
But I wasn't shot out in April.
I just want to make that clear and I state what sounded to be sounded like gunfire.
You'd agree with me that that's a crime.
In what?
You would agree that that's a crime?
I totally do agree with you.
And certainly if somebody shot at your house and shot at your car, that would be a crime as well?
Would be, sir.
A crime that would result in a police investigation.
True?
I reached out to the police.
I was also looked into by the state police.
Do you know Detective Jewis?
Pardon?
Detective Jewis?
I do know him.
He testified here the first day.
Do you recall that?
That's correct.
I remember that.
Do you recall his testimony that he hadn't produced or knew of any police reports reflecting harassment by anyone other than Wolfgang Helbig?
I remember that.
But I will add to that that he was aware of Mr. Paul, do you have more?
Okay, so like total 10 minutes?
Oh yes.
Alright, and we'll just hold off and do one big break all at once.
Go ahead.
Detective Dan Jewis, do you recall this testimony, sir?
Do you remember when Detective Dan Jewis told us that he retired a year ago?
So Detective Dan Jewis wouldn't have been someone who would have been involved with those reports that you were just asked about, as though it didn't happen, right?
That's correct.
When you tell Jesse's story, is that a way for you to keep him alive?
All I have is Jesse's story to keep him alive, to keep his memories alive.
Something I did to keep his memory alive was I started a scholarship fund.
It gets awarded every year.
I get nothing out of it.
It's an endowment now.
It's awarded every year to a student to meet certain criteria.
That I'm very proud of.
It's a legacy that I live on.
I hope to be able someday Thank you, Mr. Heslin.
I don't have any other questions.
Mr. Ringel.
You talk about, you told us about telling Bessie's story.
Would you agree with me that As a result of this, you feel compelled to watch every time there's a school shooting?
Objections on an outside scope.
All right, this time we're going to take our first break.
This is going to be a little bit longer break for the jury, not as long for the people, the lawyers and I. This is your opportunity to write down questions individually.
You're not requested to do so.
This is just an opportunity.
Remember, all of my prior instructions, they are still in place.
No research, no conversation about anything that's happened in this courtroom.
For the jury, it'll be about a 30-minute break to get the questions in.
If you have any, at the beginning, please.
you may be excused.
All right.
And then for you, Mr. Kessler, you can go visit with your team, but you'll have to wait in the hallway when we come back until I'm sorry.
You know their team.
You have seen it.
You're right.
I apologize for boring you with more explanations.
All right.
Anything else needed?
All right.
I'm going to go work on some other stuff.
The only thing, Your Honor, would be if you want to just remind you the board if you want to go watch that meeting.
That's how I'm going to go work on it.
Keep going down.
Thank you.
If this jury awards you and Ms. Lewis any monies, how will you use these funds?
Nice order about that already.
You mentioned that harassment by Alex Jones fans or hoaxers was frequent and substantial.
Can you further define these terms?
How often are you approached by a hoaxer online in person or over the phone?
Have you saved any copies of written threats shared with you online or via email?
Can you further describe how your reputation has been affected?
Do you have examples of the ways your reputation has been impacted?
How will the outcome of this trial allow you to restore Jessie's legacy?
How would the potential monetary award enable you to continue healing?
Is there a specific amount you would feel would bring you closure with Alex Jones?
Are we worried about how would the potential monetary award enable you to continue healing or not?
Do you think he's going to answer what he's going to use it for?
I worry that he's been told about our pretrial rulings and his desire to give towards charity is part of his healing so I think one's going to beget the other and asking a question I fear will get into your ruling.
Let me say it another way.
I don't think he can truthfully answer that question without bringing charity.
Just the middle one or all three of them?
Want me to read them again?
That would be great.
How will the outcome of this trial allow you to restore Jesse's legacy?
How would the potential monetary award enable you to continue healing?
And is there a specific amount you feel would bring you closure with Alex Jones?
The first one I have absolutely no problem with asking.
I think the second one definitely could lead us into that territory.
The third one could potentially do that.
Well, I'm going to not ask the second one because I agree.
I think that might be a question eliciting Testimony, which has been excluded, but the third one, I mean, if there is a specific amount, I think he can just answer a number.
Alright, any of the others that I read that we have objections to?
The JT one?
JT's not his son?
Yeah, I mean, I figured he would just explain that.
That's fine.
Yeah, okay.
Right.
Okay.
Okay, then on the record, we've gone over the questions from the jury.
I've excluded some for the remainder.
Are there any objections?
No objections except, I guess you haven't read any of the record, the one that you've read, the one that's not in the record, dealt with an answer that could potentially...
Let me ask you a question.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Other than the questions I've already excluded, are there any objections to questions I'm preparing to ask Mr. Kesslin?
I'm sorry, I didn't listen.
No, no.
Mr. Rinald?
No.
Alright, great.
Then we're ready for Mr. Kesslin.
If you'll call him back in, please, Becky, and we are ready for the jury.
Oh, oh, do we want to talk about, because the moment he's done, I'm going to call. because the moment he's done, I'm going to call.
It's going to be fine.
Okay, thank you.
Yeah.
So demonstrative, but not as evidence. but not as evidence.
Correct, you're on.
That's fine.
Yeah, I read it.
Everything that she says or pictures, they're all invisible.
It would all be invisible.
I think I might have just said I read it.
watch
I'm still there.
All right.
Thank you.
Mr. Hesslin, I'm going to ask you some questions and I'll just ask you to listen carefully to them and answer them to the best of your ability for the jury.
Alright, make sure you speak up.
You're very well spoken.
Is the amount being asked for compensation and punitive damages by your family and lawyers meant to prevent Alex Jones from being in business after this case?
or do you hope he can still operate as long as he takes it as a learning lesson?
I hope he can still operate and be successful and take it as a learning experience.
I hope he can still operate as a learning experience.
When did you first meet and start interacting with Detective Jewis?
Detective Jewis I met through the tragedy and the investigation at Sandy Hook.
He was the lead detective that he testified to.
The actual date I met him, I don't recall that.
It was some time shortly after the When did you first start therapy with Dr. Crouch?
That was in 2013. Best of my memory, it was in the summertime.
Did you ever try to contact Mr. Jones directly?
No, I never did try to contact Alex Jones directly.
I never had a means of getting hold of him or away of him.
No, I did not.
How has Jesse's passing affected JT and your parenting with him?
How old was JT when Jesse passed?
JT would have been, I believe, 12. I can't answer on how it affected anybody else outside of myself.
But, I will say, J.T.'s done an incredible job.
You were too incredible, a young man.
I can't answer that.
It affects everybody in a different way.
Lose a sibling is definitely different than losing a son or a child.
Is it fair to say that gun control and take away guns are two completely separate arguments and they are not equivalent of each other?
Can you repeat that?
Is it fair to say that gun control and take away guns are two completely separate arguments and they are not equivalent of each other?
That's a very good question.
I believe that's a true statement.
There's a difference between gun control and there's a difference between taking away guns and people's Second Amendment.
As with anything, I think we could always improve on our laws and our regulations, even being the Second Amendment, or the First Amendment, in fact, the steps we can do to preserve those constitutional rights as it should be, along with making our lives safer and better.
The defense attempted to put the words blood feud in your mouth.
Do you think this is reckless, given your history with their clients?
I think it was a poor choice of words in my deposition.
I should have had a better choice of words.
I apologize for that.
And from anybody that that has affected, or they took it in a negative or wrong way, it was a poor choice of words.
And as I can be clear and stated before, my only business is just to settle a business with Alex Jones through the legal proceeding to the courtroom.
I wish that Alex Jones had no physical harm or Just accountability and responsibility for the legal system.
How were you not aware of Alex Jones after your Megyn Kelly interview, which Alex claims was a hit piece on him?
him?
Did you not watch the segment?
I did not watch the segment.
The segment that they broadcast about me, Shorter?
Yes, the Megyn Kelly piece, the whole Megyn Kelly.
Let me just read you the question.
How were you not aware of Alex Jones, excuse me, how were you not aware fully of Alex Jones after your Megyn Kelly interview, which Alex claims was a hit piece on him?
Did you not watch the segment?
No, I didn't watch the segment until the latter date.
Approximately the beginning of April, it came to my attention.
I had no knowledge of that interview or if it were a statement or a broadcast.
You mentioned that harassment by Alex Jones' fans or hoaxers was frequent and substantial.
Can you further define these terms?
How often are you approached by a hoaxer, either online, in person, or over the phone?
I do my best to do that.
It's been over a 10-year period, 10-year campaign.
of a conspiracy and hoax.
Hoax.
It's more, sometimes it's more frequent and more often and in a larger volume than other times.
I've had a month or two months where I've had No interaction, negative comments, no confrontation.
I've had other weeks where there's been dozens of comments, anonymous calls, or personal interaction.
There's just no way to really give an accurate, more accurate prescription than that.
Have you saved any copies of written threats shared with you online or via email?
As I said, I'm not a big email person or computer person.
not even like cell phones.
They're kicking around, some of them, a few of them.
I know, I probably should have categorized them, but I haven't.
Something that I don't really care to remember.
The easiest thing to do when you get the call, or you get a message, or an email, is kind of just push it away.
ignore it can you further describe how your reputation has been affected Do you have examples of ways your reputation has been impacted?
Well, as I said, it was my reputation and my credibility.
the Image and I do broadcast, people questioned what I lied about.
I wouldn't it's hard to even go to do a job for somebody or work or give a price So many people, especially in Connecticut, the area where I live, they know who I am, they recognize me, who I am, by the name or by the It just always seems to come up.
You've done jobs, and you could be working on a job, and then, whether they book you up or what, I don't know.
But the topic comes up.
What did I lie about?
What was fake about the tragedy?
Or what didn't happen?
As I stated before, it's just, people can't fathom I guess unless you're not a rational person or a sane person, maybe you could.
But sane and rational people just can't wrap their mind around it and understand it.
How will the outcome of this trial allow you to restore Jesse's legacy?
Well, the outcome of this trial...
It'll set it straight that Alex Jones was wrong with what he said and did.
My hopes is, with that, I'll be able to declare Jesse's legacy and his honor.
Moving on in the future, we won't have to deal with the conspiracy or the whole experience about Jesse, or myself, or mainly Jesse.
He's the one that deserves it.
That's my hope.
Is there a specific amount you feel would bring you closure with Alex Jones?
That's a very good question.
It's not really about the closure.
monetary amount is about making a strong statement and preventing Alex Jones and people in the future from doing what was done to me and my family and Jesse.
I don't, it can't be a slap on the wrist.
It can't be like somebody getting a speeding ticket and just paying the ticket and they go out and do the same thing over again.
It's got to be, there's got to be substantial consequences for the actions to prevent that from failing or continuing to happen or happening again in the future.
The Monetary Fund has to make a statement for that.
All right.
Thank you, Mr. Heslin.
You may return back to the Council table.
Thank you, Your Honor.
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you.
I have a motion I can bring after Ms. Lewis.
Sure.
Mr. Fall, your next witness?
Yes.
Sorry.
Sometimes I look over and I forget what I'm looking at.
But I got that one right.
The claim is called Scarlett Lewis.
Ms. Lewis, if you'll come stand in front of me, please.
Raise your right hand.
These solemnities are all firm and are currently a particularity that the testimony we are about to hear.
It will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Thank you so much, ma'am.
You can have a seat in the witness chair.
And I know you've heard me say it a bunch of times.
There's water.
There's tissues.
We need to be able to hear you.
So please speak into the microphone.
Let the lawyers ask their questions.
And then answer.
Answer out loud.
And then words.
Can you do that for me?
Yes.
thank you so much miss Lewis would please introduce yourself my name is Scarlett Lewis and I am first and foremost the mom of two boys Jesse and his surviving brother and and I'm the founder of the Jesse Lewis choose love movement We're going to talk about that in a little bit.
Before we do the Where you were when you first became aware of this disgusting conspiracy that Jesse's murder After the firehouse,
the firehouse is where we congregated to find out if Jessie was coming back or not.
I actually went to my mom's house.
I'm a single mom and I didn't want to go back to the house that I had raised Jessie in.
So I went back to my mom's house.
Who lives nearby.
And all my family and friends since high school flew in.
And so it was a crowded house.
And I was in shock and just trying to maintain, but I do remember that there were some Hushed whispering going around about people talking about something and they didn't want me to know, so of course I wanted to know.
And they were telling me that there was someone saying that the tragedy hadn't happened, which was so crazy to me because I was living it.
Is this the first time Yes.
Tell me when the first time it is that you became aware that this general conspiracy, this disgusting web of lies, began to spin about your son's murder and Sandy Hook in general.
Well, other than that first time, I guess it would be...
A couple of months later when the third and fourth grade choir from the Sandy Hook Elementary School had been invited to the Super Bowl to sing, I think, America the Beautiful with Jennifer Hudson.
And such a beautiful invite for them and kind of exciting.
Experience after what they've been through.
They had been in the Sandy Hook Elementary School at the time of the shooting, so they're considered survivors.
And I knew that they were going down, and I watched them.
And then I saw the picture.
With the overlay of the afterwards circulating with the kids' names on them.
Jesse being left front.
If we could, let's bring up PX-43.
the picture that you're talking about, the Super Bowl.
You heard about this picture before seeing it?
I heard about it before seeing it.
I can't remember.
I can't remember.
I don't know.
Things circulated back then.
Sure.
This is the picture you're talking about?
Yes.
The Super Bowl picture that has, I believe, you just said Jesse in the front left.
Yes.
Jesse's name in the front left?
Yes.
Fake name.
Sure.
What was your understanding about this and how did it make you feel?
It was deeply unsettling.
What people were saying about December 14th, the shooting, that it didn't happen, that these children from the Sandy Hook School were actually the victims alive, older.
It was deeply unsettling to me because it's so out of touch with reality that it's scary.
To think about who would think like this.
I want to take you back even before this.
Well, first off, did you understand this picture?
Pushing of this information, including this picture in the Super Bowl thought, came from Alex Jones or was being pushed by Alex Jones?
Can you repeat the question?
Sure.
That was a bad question.
Did you understand this picture, this conspiracy here, to be coming from Alex Jones?
Yes.
Pushed by Alex Jones?
Yes.
I want to take you back even before this.
Was there anything about your understanding or did you learn or was Jesse's wake interrupted in any way by this conspiracy, this web of lies?
Yeah, so Jesse was murdered on a Friday and the following Wednesday we had a wake for him at a local funeral home.
And people were lined up outside and then coming in, we had an open casket and we were blessed to be able to have an open casket because of the lack of damage done to the body.
So people would walk in, they would sign something, they would walk past the casket and then to me.
So I'm just meeting people as they're coming through, and I remember looking up and seeing the Hells Angels there.
And I thought, well at the time, I was in shock, and so I just thought, you know, It was surreal anyway.
But then I found out later that they were there to ironically keep the peace, which was also surreal to me, to make sure that there wasn't a disturbance at the wake.
Your understanding is that this came from the beginning of this conspiracy and web of lies that Jones was pushing?
Yes.
Yes.
I want to talk to you a bit about other encounters that you had with the public as it concerns this web of lies and what Jones was pushing.
Have you received, I'm not going to go into every one of them, but have you received emails, threats, death threats and the like as it concerns this?
Yes.
One of those emails.
Let me provide to you.
Mark, is playing this exhibit number 131?
Does this refresh your recollection of one of the emails?
Yes.
It's actually a couple of them.
I didn't give you the one that is highlighted there.
Do they give you the one that's highlighted there?
No.
Okay. - Great. - It's not too big now. - Yeah, 131.
This is a hotline bill.
If we could, I just want to exhibit, first, I just want to exhibit 131 if that means.
Any objection?
No.
Claimers 131 is admitted.
If you would please, we'll see where it is.
That's 131.
Go to page two there with me.
And we see on page two, this email is from a person that we've seen or heard of in this trial bunch, Wolfgang Alvig.
Yes.
You know who Wolfgang Albig is?
Yes.
One of many people associated with Alex Jones and this grotesque lie about your son's murder.
Yes.
One of the people that Alex Jones pushed over and over on his show.
Yes.
We can't go to page three.
We have there at the very top, and we'll highlight it for you, robdinfowars.com.
You might be able to see it on the screen.
I'm highlighting it here.
I can, yes.
That's an Alex Jones Infowars website, or email, should I say?
Yes.
I want to talk to you a little bit about This email.
It first says, Neil Hesslund is not Jesse's dad unless you can send me his birth certificate.
How did that make you feel?
It's not the only time that Jesse and his birth certificate have been questioned.
It was deeply unsettling.
If you read the rest of the email, It's pulling names from different parts of my life.
All my family, you know, my friends, previous relationships, it's deeply unsettling.
What is it like having people associated or Jones and his associates asking you for birth certificates?
How does that make you feel?
I remember a different email asking me for Jesse's birth certificate.
And I had actually been on the phone with a school in Texas who had had a child that had died by suicide because of continuous bullying.
And I thought, I sat down, I opened the email and I read that and I thought, and they were asking me to come in and talk and help their student body.
And I sat down, I opened up the email and I thought, I have a connection with that little boy.
That's how it made me feel.
Go on down this page.
I'm going to read something for you and I'm going to apologize first because I know that this must be true.
It says, I have been avoiding Scarlet because I find her appalling and disgusting.
If the Arkansas Democrat Deset published a spin article on Scarlett and her beginnings in Fayetteville, then further research is warranted into this woman's past and her extended family.
We know she is a fraud, but how deep it goes, we may not know yet.
What is it like reading those words after what you've gone through?
A deeply unsettling.
I'm going to go to the next one.
The Arkansas Democrat Gazette was actually doing an article on me because I was there speaking in schools about a movement that I started in my son's honor.
And I'm actually from Arkansas.
And so it was, you know, deeply, deeply, deeply upsetting and then also upsetting that you have People that are thinking that of you.
Appalling and disgusting.
It's in your face.
It's scary.
There is another email where you have Well, let me ask you in a different way.
How does this make you feel as it concerns your own security and safety?
I feel compromised.
I mean, you can look at this email and you see that they have done research on me.
And I guess through social media and maybe websites to do searches on people, they have all the different names that I've ever used and that I use now.
They have people that they've dragged up from my past.
It's, I know I'm using this word a lot, but deeply unsettling to your very core.
Yeah.
You reference research that they're doing on it.
Let's look at the next page, page 3.
At the top of the page it reads, Neil Hessling, 57, reportedly is the father of Jesse McCord Lewis.
Not very likely.
Perhaps JT stands for Jordan Trent.
And then there is a picture of you.
Other people in your family.
How does this make you feel?
Explain this for us, please.
Well, I'll go back to the previous page for a second, and it says that I attended in 1984, so I was in high school, a concert.
And I did.
But that's not my name.
And...
Yeah.
Those are the names of my brothers.
So it definitely makes me feel victimized.
It's not just me.
It's not just my son.
It's interesting.
The ripple effect.
This is now my entire family.
It's my friends.
It's people that I've known in my past.
It goes far beyond just me and Jesse and my surviving son.
The next page please listen.
How many pictures?
Sent to you by someone you don't know, who is clearly mentally unstable.
What does that do to your psyche?
To your trust in the outside world?
I mean, this is supposed to be me, but it's not.
It's actually another victim's family.
supposedly they think it's me.
It's different than losing a son, having a son murdered.
We didn't lose him.
He was murdered.
It's different than having a son murdered because as shocking as that was, That happens.
People go through that.
But then, being a victim's parent and having someone victimize you in a different way is...
And like this, just completely, like, you try to process the death of a child.
And people have done that.
But you can't process this.
you can't make sense out of nonsense this is one of many emails you ever see Is that fair?
Yes.
Is this representative of the other emails, the other communications that you have received?
Yes.
Again, I'm not going to talk about every one of them, but I want to talk about a few others.
Plans exhibit 128.
Does this refresh your recollection of questions further that were sent to you from this Wolfgang how the Alex Jones over and over again referred to on his radio show?
Yes.
Let's move into the exhibit 128. Any attention?
Yes, Your Honor.
I'd like a foundation as to how received, what year.
Can I see it?
Sure.
I can lay another foundation.
Okay.
The exhibit that you have in front of you marked as Exhibit 128. This is an attachment to an email that you had received before.
Correct, Ms. Lewis?
Yes.
And it is an attachment to the email that we looked at there.
Exhibit 131. This is an attachment to the exhibit that's already been admitted?
Yes, well, I think I probably should have just admitted me there.
On that basis, I have no objection to part of the area anymore.
128 is admitted.
128 if we could please put that up Lisa.
I want to read the bottom of it.
A criminal faction is manipulating your thoughts and feelings by withholding information regarding the Sandy Hook school shooting of December 14, 2012. My friends and I want specific and complete answers to the following questions.
We would be pleased if you too would be curious enough to desire answers to these 51 questions.
This is something that was sent to you?
Yes.
Were you sent emails from Wolfgang Halvig concerning these questions of Sandy Hook on a number of occasions?
Thank you.
Yes.
How does receiving these questions, questioning the murder of Jesse Lewis, your son, how does that make you feel?
I'm safe.
Does it make you relive the moments surrounding his murder?
Yes.
Does it reopen the wounds that were created as a result of your grief?
Does it make him difficult to heal?
Yes.
Tell us about that.
Healing from having a child murdered is possible.
It's a lifelong, lifelong journey.
It's like losing a limb and, you know, there's phantom pains, evidently.
I don't know, but When you lose a limb, you always feel it.
It's like it's always there, because you're so used to having it.
You should have it, and you probably reach out for something with a hand, and that's how I kind of compare losing a child like that.
He should be here, and he's not.
But it's something that you can process.
This, I think, Fear and anxiety and unsafeness and that this, that all of these, this just continuous, and it doesn't even have to pay that penny.
It's just, you know, this element that's always in the background of fear keeps you from, keeps me from healing.
It definitely It definitely negatively impacts the healing process.
Ms. Lewis have, by the way, where do you live?
I live in Sandy Hook.
Do you live in the same house that you live in with Jessie?
I do.
And have you had people come to that house and make you feel unsafe there because of these lies and conspiracy that Jones has been pushing?
Yes.
Tell us about that.
There was a Christmas and We usually now go over my mom's for Christmas because I don't put up a tree anymore.
But it was Christmas morning and I had a car drive into my driveway and a man got out and started taking pictures.
and so I walked outside and I said excuse me and he took pictures and then got back in his car and drove away unsettling you feel unsafe at your own house I have, yes.
We heard briefly.
I just need to address it.
We heard briefly that you own a gun at your house.
Is that because of the safety fears that you have?
Yes.
If you'd like to explain a little further.
I'm a single mother and responsible for the safety of both of my boys and I was not able to keep one of them safe and so I'm going to keep my surviving son safe and You know,
you can tell by these emails that the people writing them are not grounded in reality.
And that is deeply concerning.
And you can tell, I could tell, by The Infowars, the two people that testified from Infowars, as well as Alex Jones, that they don't care.
That's also deeply unsettling.
When InfoWars, Dan of Dondi, I think you've seen on the screen, and others from InfoWars would come to town and others from InfoWars would come to town in Newtown, the Sandy Hook community.
What'd you hear about?
Yes.
How?
The mayor, at the time, would send out an email to the parents advising us of the fact that they were coming to town and telling us to stay in our homes, stay safe, just be aware.
And so I would.
How did it make you feel when someone told you that these people were coming into town knowing what they were saying?
It was frightening.
You didn't know what to expect.
You didn't know what they were going to do.
They would show up at different places, make Outlandish allegations and accusations and threats and...
You felt limited by that?
The death threats that you heard, or the, excuse me, you may ask it a different way.
Are you aware of other parents in the community living these same nightmares and death threats that you're talking about?
Yes.
Well, we've got the answer.
I'm going to overrule it.
Let's see where we go.
And does knowledge of what others in that community who have lost a child Affect how you feel and go about your day.
Absolutely.
I mean, we are almost like a family.
I mean, we are bonded forever, the 26 families, by what we've been through.
So if something happens to one of them, we hear about it, and it is like it's happening to us.
Do you share with them what has happened to you in that same regard for that same reason?
Yes.
There are death threats that you are aware of to other people that you believe apply to you as well?
Yes.
are you aware of a particular person her name is Lucy Richards yes and what is again on relevance hearsay what is your awareness and understanding of who Lucy Richards is
Lucy Richards is a woman who made threats to the Posner family, both Veronique and Lenny, on their voicemails.
And she was later arrested and jailed for those death threats.
Are you aware that one of the punishments that she was given is she couldn't listen to the Alex Jones show?
Yes, I am aware of that.
And knowing that someone was punished and that they're not allowed to listen to the Alex Jones show, how does that affect the way you react to further harassment from his show?
You see the type of...
Some of the people that listen to his show and take everything that he says at face value.
You have heard the actual death threats from Miss Richards?
I have.
Would hearing one of those death threats better Help us to understand how you receive them and the anxiety that's given to you.
yes your honor I'm gonna drag to the hearsay 403 a death threat that Lucy Richards left the postman family in Florida It has.
May I respond to your honor?
It has the utmost relevance in this case.
Every family member, as she has testified, talks to each other in a death threat upon one they perceive as information to themselves.
This is something that I think she's well understood thus far that causes her anxiety.
And talking about the death threat certainly isn't going to be as easy for her to relate to the jury of her feelings than actually hearing the death threat.
So it is for the purposes of, not for the truth of the matter certainly, but for demonstrative purposes, should I say.
So you're asking to play it but not admit it into evidence?
That is correct, Your Honor.
I'm sorry I should have said that.
How long is it?
Four to eight seconds.
Alright.
It will be played for the purpose of further questioning of Ms. Lewis about her state of mind and how it affects her as relates to this case, not for any truth contained in it.
Thank you, Donna.
What do you got to do about it?
You should do absolutely nothing.
You're a loser.
Are you going to run?
Cunt.
And what are you going to do about it?
You should do absolutely nothing.
You're a loser.
You're going to run in hell.
Or if you just send death You're going to die.
Death is coming to you real soon, mother fucker.
You're going to die.
When you hear...
By the way, this was sent to Lenny and Veronique Posner?
Yes.
You know the Posners?
I do.
Know them well?
Yes.
Speak to them often?
Not that often.
Speak to them.
Yes.
You heard this directly from them?
Yes.
They allowed you or wanted you to hear this?
Yes.
And when you heard this the first time, how did that make you feel?
Framed.
It's a deathbed.
Did you feel as though it was directed to you as well?
I felt like it was directed to all the families.
Does that affect you knowing one family is receiving death threats?
Absolutely.
Are there a number of other of these recordings that you've heard?
Yes.
I'm not going to.
Have you listened to him today for obvious reasons, but have all of the other recordings from this woman caused you fear, anxiety?
Yes.
Objective facts, not in evidence, huh?
She just testified that put it in evidence, overruled.
The fear and anxiety that comes with this.
Can you please explain that to us?
It's fear.
Fear for your life.
But I guess it's not even mostly fear for mine.
It's fear for my surviving son.
It's fear for The other people that have been brought into this.
My family and friends.
It's...
It paints everything.
I paint and I've described it like...
It's just one more layer.
You have a painting, and then your son is murdered, and that's a varnish on it.
And then this is another varnish, a darker varnish on top of all of that.
It's just with you all the time.
It's just a thought in your head all the time.
It is actually noon.
I think we will take our lunch break now.
10-30 for my jury.
You may not discuss anything you have heard We'll bring out something for the attorneys.
I don't know if it's ready, so we'll bring it out a little bit later.
Just make sure you shut the door, whoever's last out.
Thank you.
You may be seated.
Yes, Mr. Reynold.
Mr. Weirsch, my motion for this trial under 4111 based on the testimony of Mr. Heslin and the testimony that's just been elicited from Mr. Heslin.
That motion is denied.
Anything else?
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