Dark Journalist - DARK JOURNALIST - DEEP STATE ASSASSINATIONS: JFK CIA & COVERT OPS! PROFESSOR PETER DALE SCOTT
Aired: 2015-11-17
Duration: 01:33:51


=== Deep State Revolt Against White House (05:13) ===

[00:00:14]  Hi, this is Dark Journalist.
[00:00:16]  Today we welcome back best selling author and Berkeley professor Peter Dale Scott.
[00:00:20]  Now, Professor Scott coined the terms deep state, deep politics, and deep events.
[00:00:26]  And now he's back with a new book, Dallas 63 the first deep state revolt against the White House.
[00:00:33]  According to Professor Scott, beneath the orderly facade of American government lies a complex network linking Wall Street, a corrupt bureaucracy, and the military industrial complex.
[00:00:43]  Now, Professor Scott has made the term deep state a popular expression for describing a secret government.
[00:00:48]  But do we really understand the implications of a secret system of power not beholden to the public will of the people?
[00:00:55]  Let's get ready for class.
[00:00:56]  Here we go Professor Peter Dale Scott, Deep State Assassinations, JFK, CIA, and Covert Ops.
[00:01:19]  And that is the most important topic on earth peace.
[00:01:24]  What kind of a peace do I mean, and what kind of a peace do we seek?
[00:01:28]  Not a Pax Americana, enforced on the world by American weapons of war.
[00:01:38]  I keep going back to the dimensions of this case, that the dimensions are huge and go so deeply into our society that it's been impossible to dislodge.
[00:01:52]  It's a kind of cancer that is metastasized.
[00:01:56]  That's why I talk about a dark force in this country that continues to affect us by major events that I call structural deep events.
[00:02:09]  You know, as we come up to 52 years since the JFK assassination took place on a public street in broad daylight in Dallas, Texas, we're left with a dark understanding that covert forces overturned our system of government and have been gaining power since their successful revolt against JFK.
[00:02:24]  From Watergate, Iran Contra, 9 11, and the Iraq War, we've seen this coalescing power centralize control over the media and many of our public institutions.
[00:02:34]  It's up to us to face the deep state and expose its hidden machinations.
[00:02:38]  So let's go talk with Professor Peter Dale Scott.
[00:02:48]  Professor, it's great to have you back on the show.
[00:02:51]  Of course, the new book, Dallas 63 The First Deep State Revolt Against the White House, is outstanding.
[00:02:56]  Well, thank you.
[00:02:57]  And I was amazed at just how many new details you've been able to add to this research.
[00:03:02]  So I'd like to start us off with your quote from the book President Kennedy was not assassinated by a marginal, neglected loaner who was quickly killed, but by some deep, enduring force in our society with the power to affect bureaucratic behavior.
[00:03:18]  Right.
[00:03:19]  So, after all of your deep research, this is the final conclusion that you've reached.
[00:03:25]  Yes, I've had it really.
[00:03:28]  I think in Deep Politics and the Death of JFK, which came out in 1993, I said something very similar that President Kennedy was killed by the deep political system.
[00:03:43]  And I didn't have a notion of the deep state when I wrote that, but what I meant by the deep political system in 93 is pretty much what I mean by the deep state today,
[00:03:59]  which is to say, I am not blaming the assassination on the government itself or any particular agency in the government, but I'm blaming it on this condition we're in where the government itself is only part of a larger system of power, which is partly structural as we see in agencies like NSA and CIA.
[00:04:24]  And partly, as I said, like a weather system.
[00:04:28]  It's very hard to define, but it's very much there and its power is very strong.
[00:04:34]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:36]  And one thing I found fascinating in the book is that, and you know, I've read all of your books on deep politics and the JFK assassination, but what really struck me was that instead of it just being a compendium of all the other books, which it certainly draws material from, in there, There's a lot of new research breakthroughs and dot connecting that you do, and that's very intriguing.
[00:05:02]  I found that you also expanded on certain concepts, and one of the ones that really grabbed me was this area of research you brought forward about the Bayo Poly plot and how this aspect of deep state activity affected the JFK assassination.
[00:05:20]  Yes, well, the first thing I'd like to say about it is that, you know, I have a method of the negative template.

=== Bobby Kennedy Cover Up Phase Three (16:20) ===

[00:05:27]  Something that should be mentioned but isn't mentioned is probably significant.
[00:05:33]  Yes.
[00:05:33]  And I think it's.
[00:05:37]  I regard the work of the HSCA, I mean, a lot of good staff work was done, but in the end, the House Select Committee on Assassinations report was another more sophisticated version of a cover up.
[00:05:55]  Right, and while giving the impression that they were going much deeper than the Warren Commission that preceded them.
[00:06:00]  They were actually leaving the most crucial leads completely untouched.
[00:06:04]  When something is not mentioned that should be mentioned, it's probably significant.
[00:06:10]  Right.
[00:06:11]  And the fact that the author of the HSC report, the House Select Committee on Assassination reports, two men, Robert Blakey and Richard Billings, that they could write a book where they talk about this biopali mission.
[00:06:34]  Well, it's so hard to describe.
[00:06:36]  It was a boat that went towards Cuba and it offloaded some people who went officially to look for Soviet defectors, but allegedly, in fact, to assassinate Castro.
[00:06:52]  So we can list it among the alleged assassination plots against Castro.
[00:06:59]  It's important, and it's the fact that it's not in a book written by Richard Billings, and Richard Billings was actually part of that mission.
[00:07:11]  An employee of Life and some relative of C.D. Jackson, who was one of the intelligence people or ex intelligence people masterminding Life magazine, that itself makes it important.
[00:07:29]  Now, I know that this mission was complex and involved a few different players, but who can we say was collaborating in this operation?
[00:07:37]  Well, it was certainly a collaboration between the Miami CIA station.
[00:07:43]  And a very wealthy millionaire, William Pauley, who had worked.
[00:07:50]  He had made a lot of his money in connection with other governments, and in particular, working with the CIA and its predecessors.
[00:08:03]  He worked with Chenault in China.
[00:08:06]  He supplied the planes that Chenault's Flying Tigers flew in China.
[00:08:13]  So he was very influential.
[00:08:15]  He was a close friend of Alan Dulles.
[00:08:18]  And it was frequently consulted by the Eisenhower government.
[00:08:24]  And then they decided to.
[00:08:28]  So you have Pauli involved, you have the Miami CIA station involved, and you have, frankly, at one stage, you have members of people who are on the fringes of the underworld involved.
[00:08:42]  And one of these would be Frank Sturgis, who was later one of the Watergate burglars.
[00:08:49]  And another man is a man called John Martino.
[00:08:52]  Who's much more important in the Kennedy assassination than generally recognized?
[00:08:57]  And they went to some supporters of the Kennedy family to get financial backing for this, and I wish we knew more about that.
[00:09:10]  And then they took on one of the other Watergate burglars, Eugenio Martinez, was actually on this boat.
[00:09:23]  They offloaded three Cubans who were never heard of again, and the story was spread that they had gone ashore to assassinate Castro.
[00:09:35]  Well, they obviously didn't assassinate Castro, but they are the background, I think, that gave a kind of resonance to the story that came from John Roselli, who also is not far from this whole operation.
[00:09:54]  The mobster John Roselli.
[00:09:57]  Gave Jack Anderson in 1967 the story that a plot to assassinate Castro may have backfired, and this is what very much tormented Robert Kennedy.
[00:10:11]  The story said that he was worried that something that he would be connected with to assassinate Castro had backfired against his own brother.
[00:10:22]  That's what I call the phase three explanation of the assassination.
[00:10:29]  Yes, and this is so interesting because in your research you've discovered these three different cover stories phase one, phase two, and phase three, and each one was used at different times to maintain the cover up.
[00:10:42]  Now, can we go through those three different phases?
[00:10:44]  Phase one is Russia or Cuba did it.
[00:10:48]  This is obviously a very dangerous story, and Johnson used that story.
[00:10:56]  To get Chief Justice Warren to head the Warren Commission and come out with a less politically dangerous version, which is that the president was killed by a disgruntled loner, Lee Harvey Oswald.
[00:11:12]  Both those versions were false.
[00:11:15]  The phase three story that it was something that had been authorized by Bobby Kennedy that backfired, I don't think that's exactly right, but I think it's a lot closer to the truth.
[00:11:30]  Than either phase one or phase two.
[00:11:33]  And the BioPoly mission is part of the phase three story because I think it may have helped.
[00:11:44]  It's very clear that Bobby Kennedy was very upset by the Jack Anderson column and he actually interceded.
[00:11:53]  We got it out here in San Francisco and it talked about the idea of the plot that backfired.
[00:12:00]  And Bobby Kennedy's concern about this, and when it finally appeared in the Washington Post four days later, that part of the story about Bobby Kennedy had disappeared from the story.
[00:12:15]  So obviously, it is something, and David Talbot established that it was Robert Kennedy himself who got it killed.
[00:12:27]  So obviously, it's a very sensitive story, and that's a sign we're getting closer to the truth than either phase one or phase two.
[00:12:36]  Right, and each phase is designed to obscure the real story.
[00:12:39]  Now, I want to expand on the idea of these three phases, but first let's identify who is putting these stories out.
[00:12:46]  You know, is it fair to say that there's some element in the deep state behind these three different phase stories?
[00:12:53]  And would it be the same force behind the entire cover up?
[00:12:57]  Well, yes, we can say that, but that's not a very helpful statement.
[00:13:01]  I can be much more specific and say that the government itself has been behind the cover up.
[00:13:08]  And that does not mean that the government is responsible for the assassination.
[00:13:14]  My understanding is that a lot of the cover up comes because the people who did plan the assassination, and probably, oh, certainly included people inside the government, that they used, they piggybacked, I use the phrase in the book, they piggybacked the assassination on other operations which were authorized.
[00:13:41]  Both in the CIA and in the FBI.
[00:13:45]  Right.
[00:13:46]  And that's a good deal of the beginning of my book is about a CIA operation which was not an assassination operation at all, but was a search for a mole going on inside the counterintelligence part of the CIA.
[00:14:03]  And it involved the name of Lee Harvey Oswald.
[00:14:08]  I think it possibly involved Oswald himself, but I can't prove that.
[00:14:12]  What is very demonstrative.
[00:14:14]  Now that we have the Oswald or a version of the Oswald CIA file, we can see that that file was being manipulated in the search for a mole, and so that the CIA didn't want anything to come out about Lee Harvey Oswald, so that connected Oswald to them, so they went along with the cover up.
[00:14:41]  And the FBI, I don't talk about it in the book so much, I've talked about it in an earlier book.
[00:14:48]  Deep Politics and the Death of JFK, I think it's almost certain that Oswald was an FBI informant.
[00:14:57]  That doesn't mean he was on the FBI payroll.
[00:15:00]  They usually used cutout agencies.
[00:15:03]  He was working for an agency that was reporting to the FBI.
[00:15:08]  So they also didn't want the truth to come out.
[00:15:11]  So that explains why the government would be involved in the cover up.
[00:15:16]  And the phase two version.
[00:15:18]  I think it was the way to avoid war with Russia and Cuba, but that may have been a pretext.
[00:15:28]  I mean, I don't know whether the appearances, which were very real, not just imagined or paranoid, that Oswald had a Cuban connection or a Russian connection, these appearances had been carefully laid before the assassination.
[00:15:48]  Okay, so what would be a good example of this deliberate linking of Oswald in the public record to Cuba before he was used as a patsy?
[00:15:58]  Just a month, six weeks before the assassination, somebody turned up in Mexico City, called himself Lee Oswald, and talked about his contact with a man in the Soviet embassy who was identified as Kostikov, and Kostikov was being carried in FBI files.
[00:16:21]  Not just as a KGB agent, but as a KGB agent who specialized in assassinations.
[00:16:28]  So that was very sensitive stuff.
[00:16:32]  And who knows if I had been in the government, which of course is inconceivable, I was in the Canadian government.
[00:16:39]  That's right.
[00:16:39]  I would not have lasted very long in the American government.
[00:16:43]  But anybody would have said, well, we have to come up with any story that keeps.
[00:16:51]  Kostikov and the Soviet Union out of this because we know it's not true.
[00:16:57]  So they come up with the idea, phase two, that Oswald is a lone nut.
[00:17:02]  And a lot of people went along with the lone nut version because they didn't want to create World War III.
[00:17:11]  Absolutely.
[00:17:12]  Can we say then that this is the deep state, in essence, blackmailing the government?
[00:17:18]  Elements in the deep state, yes, absolutely.
[00:17:21]  Absolutely.
[00:17:22]  It's exactly what it is.
[00:17:24]  And phase three, the story that the Kennedys were somehow involved in this plot to assassinate Castro and that it blew back and ended up assassinating Kennedy, this also feels like a kind of blackmail.
[00:17:37]  You know, you described the journalist Jack Anderson saying it was a political H bomb.
[00:17:43]  Now, how could that be used to blackmail the Kennedys and members of the intelligence community?
[00:17:48]  Well, first of all, let me, you know, when I say phase three, it sounds as if chronologically it came.
[00:17:55]  It came later, possibly beginning with the Anderson story in 1967.
[00:18:00]  But no, it's in there at the very beginning.
[00:18:04]  And we know that Robert Kennedy had a discussion with.
[00:18:16]  He had his own personal Cuban go between with the Cuban community.
[00:18:23]  And again, I have to pause to think of his name.
[00:18:26]  That's Harry Williams?
[00:18:27]  Harry Ruiz Williams.
[00:18:29]  Right.
[00:18:29]  He's often called Harry Williams.
[00:18:32]  It's actually a hyphenated name, Harry Ruiz Williams.
[00:18:36]  Okay.
[00:18:37]  And.
[00:18:38]  Bobby is supposed to have said in the presence of Haynes Johnson, who is a Washington Post reporter, totally credible, that Bobby said, One of your boys did it.
[00:18:53]  Well, it's all very well to call them Harry Ruiz Williams boys, but what that meant was Cubans involved in operations that Bobby Kennedy was organizing with Harry Ruiz Williams independently.
[00:19:12]  Of the CIA.
[00:19:14]  And something, Bobby had seen McCone shortly.
[00:19:21]  This is all the afternoon of November 22nd.
[00:19:25]  The president's body has not yet returned.
[00:19:28]  And Bobby now thinks, after having talked to McCone, that one of his boys did it.
[00:19:35]  So he himself believes in the phase three version.
[00:19:40]  That doesn't make Bobby responsible, it makes Bobby Kennedy the blackmail lead.
[00:19:46]  Yes.
[00:19:46]  And explains that Bobby went along with the Warren report finding.
[00:19:54]  Bobby's position was a very painful one, as well described by David Talbot in the book Brothers.
[00:20:02]  And so it's a story which, as I say, explains the behavior.
[00:20:10]  And I have quite a lot in my book about how down the years, Kennedy, and then after, of course, Bobby himself was then murdered in 68.
[00:20:20]  But Kennedy people have taken part in the cover up.
[00:20:25]  That's very interesting.
[00:20:26]  So, why do Kennedy loyalists sometimes go along with this cover up?
[00:20:30]  Just because their operations had been, I suspect, spuriously, it would have been very easy to penetrate Bobby Kennedy's operation because they were not pros.
[00:20:46]  They didn't have the kind of security checks that the CIA has.
[00:20:54]  So, but when you know, we were talking a moment ago about Blakey, Blakey was a very loyal Bobby Kennedy man.
[00:21:00]  Actually, Blakey was in the Justice Department talking about going after organized crime figures that Bobby Kennedy was specially interested in.
[00:21:10]  He's a Kennedy loyalist, and we've seen Kennedy loyalists involved in the cover up, and we've also seen CIA loyalists involved in the cover up.
[00:21:23]  And what I don't like about the CIA, there's a It's actually quite a good book in a way, called Live by the Sword, written by a man called Gus Russo, who hangs out with CIA veterans, and they keep coming back to the phase one version that Cuba did it, Castro did it.
[00:21:45]  And I don't believe that at all.

=== CIA Crimes Above The Law (06:08) ===

[00:21:48]  Castro was not a fool.
[00:21:50]  Exactly.
[00:21:51]  And it would have been, I think that, well, Castro was on the point of entertaining very, very sensitive and initial contacts with the Kennedy administration.
[00:22:10]  He was talking to one of those contacts at the time of the assassination.
[00:22:14]  It was not in his interest to kill Kennedy, and it's very much in the CIA's interest to blame it on Cuba because I think.
[00:22:24]  The CIA, people in the CIA know, as I believe, that some people in the CIA were definitely involved in this assassination and drew on all of their knowledge and their manipulation of covert operations to set up a situation where the assassination would occur and nobody in the government would want to know the truth or would want the truth to come out.
[00:22:54]  That is intriguing.
[00:22:55]  You know, it's such good timing that we're talking about this now because just recently.
[00:22:59]  We're seeing all these mainstream news stories being floated out there about how there was a benign cover up by the CIA on the JFK assassination.
[00:23:08]  And it was because of Oswald's association with Cuba.
[00:23:11]  So they released this declassified report from former director John McCone, where he says he didn't want to give the Warren Commission certain details of Oswald's biography because it would reveal Oswald being connected to Castro.
[00:23:25]  And they thought that Castro was behind it.
[00:23:27]  So that sounds familiar.
[00:23:29]  You know, I find this going back to phase one all over again.
[00:23:33]  It's the same story.
[00:23:34]  There's nothing new there.
[00:23:35]  But what I'm amazed at, really, is that even 50 years later, they're looking for a new spin on this that will get them off the hook.
[00:23:43]  Well, it's actually, I certainly agree there is nothing new.
[00:23:48]  I think that the report does mention the fact that McCone wouldn't tell the Warren Commission about the CIA plots against Castro.
[00:23:58]  Yes.
[00:23:59]  It's hard now to remember that in 1963 no one knew about those plots.
[00:24:05]  And in fact, the first news of those plots was really the Jack Anderson column and the huge furor that followed it because Lyndon Johnson ordered an investigation and the CIA Inspector General came up with a report which you can read now.
[00:24:24]  I did an introduction to it, it's published.
[00:24:29]  And that's true, but doesn't begin to get To the real truth.
[00:24:34]  Yes, the CIA suppressed the fact of these assassination plots against Castro, and they are relevant, but they suppressed a great deal more.
[00:24:47]  And in fact, they gave, for example, the Warren Commission what they called Oswald's CIA file.
[00:24:55]  It was one, the CIA had at least two and probably three or more files on Oswald.
[00:25:03]  And they only gave one, and they gave a very bowdlerized version of the one that they gave.
[00:25:10]  And they actually, in that file that they gave the Warren Commission, was a document which was forged.
[00:25:20]  It's a technicality, it wasn't a serious forgery, but here they are.
[00:25:25]  You know, this is obstruction of justice.
[00:25:27]  Definitely.
[00:25:28]  And normally, people who do that sort of thing can go to jail.
[00:25:33]  The CIA didn't, people didn't have to go to jail because, first of all, no one detected the forgery until much later.
[00:25:41]  And secondly, the CIA had an exemption from the Eisenhower era that their people committed crimes.
[00:25:51]  These crimes were not to be reported.
[00:25:54]  The CIA really is, in a sense, above the law.
[00:25:57]  I mean, they are charged by the Charter.
[00:26:00]  We call it the Charter.
[00:26:02]  The National Security Act, which created the CIA in 1947, said that one of the CIA's responsibilities is to protect its own operations.
[00:26:14]  Well, that's what they've been doing, and all this massive cover up is protecting one of their operations so they can say they're legally justified to do that.
[00:26:23]  Incredible.
[00:26:23]  It's a real test of whether, in the end, every agency of the government and every individual in those agencies is governed by the rule of law or not.
[00:26:35]  And I believe they should be, and I believe that we should still investigate.
[00:26:41]  Well, I agree with you.
[00:26:42]  And in a sense, you're putting these vital pieces of history back together for us.
[00:26:47]  So, we're correcting our vision and we can see what really happened in these crucial events in our history.
[00:26:54]  But when it comes to an official investigation, where would you start, Professor?
[00:26:59]  We can begin with the cover up because there were crimes committed in covering up.
[00:27:05]  And I think I've said this for decades, but I'll go on saying it that by beginning to investigate and getting to the truth of the cover up, then we get a better sense on.
[00:27:19]  Who was really responsible for the crime?
[00:27:22]  Absolutely.
[00:27:23]  And I like how, when you've written about this over the years, you've consistently said that you're not interested so much in who actually was shooting on that day, but more what was the structure behind the crime that made it possible, and what were the goals of those who were behind it?
[00:27:39]  Yes, from the very beginning, you know, when I first came into this, which was around 1970, there were a lot of people studying Dealey Plaza and bullet angles and How many marksmen and so on.

=== Obscuring Covert Forces Visibility (15:03) ===

[00:27:56]  I felt from the very beginning you could name the marksmen and you wouldn't still begin to understand what happened because you knew from the dimensions of the cover up that this is a crime that involved a lot of people and it's the piggybacking that made it work because you don't have a lot of people to do the piggybacking.
[00:28:22]  You have a small group of very well located people.
[00:28:26]  Who can manipulate existing covert operations so that in the end it's a screen for hiring very professional assassins?
[00:28:39]  Right, right.
[00:28:40]  And it's very interesting how the covert forces are able to obscure their visibility by giving us frontmen like Oswald and his connections to obscure what's really operating here.
[00:28:51]  So when people like Jack Ruby show up in the story, and of course he kills Oswald.
[00:28:57]  We're left with a spectacle of characters and events that are a smokescreen for the real actors in the background.
[00:29:03]  And yet, there are some powerful clues to the forces behind President Kennedy's assassination in the figure of Jack Ruby.
[00:29:11]  What can you tell me about Ruby and his unusual associations?
[00:29:17]  The real glaring weakness of the Warren report was that they tried to present both these people as loners, essentially.
[00:29:28]  Or oddballs.
[00:29:30]  And in the case of Ruby, this is flagrantly not true.
[00:29:35]  Right.
[00:29:36]  They tried to say that the report says that Ruby was not connected to organized crime, and the footnote refers you to a bunch of FBI interviews.
[00:29:49]  And essentially, they went to the top of the Chicago mob and said, Was Ruby connected to the mob?
[00:29:56]  And the top of the mob said no.
[00:29:59]  And they used that as evidence that Ruby was not mob connected.
[00:30:05]  But on the other hand, you have reports.
[00:30:11]  Some of them actually in the 26 volumes of the Warren Commission.
[00:30:16]  That Ruby, if a big drug deal was going to go through Dallas, that Ruby was the man you had to check with for it to go ahead.
[00:30:30]  Ruby, demonstrably, even in the records that the Warren Commission collected, had a very strong in with the Dallas police.
[00:30:41]  He had connections with very high level people in Dallas.
[00:30:47]  I think a lot of it had to do with that he ran a strip club.
[00:30:52]  And these girls who were strippers were also girls who were rented out to, I'm not going to name names here because I don't want to get sued for libel and, well, all right, they're now dead.
[00:31:08]  But very rich people who like to have strippers at their private parties.
[00:31:13]  So Ruby knew these.
[00:31:15]  People and worked with them.
[00:31:17]  And the whole, there was actually an investigation of strip clubs and something called AGVA, which was a so called union of these people, because it itself was penetrated by organized crime.
[00:31:33]  And finally, one of the staffers on the Warren Commission did a lot of research into Ruby's phone calls and found that Ruby was talking.
[00:31:47]  To the people who were in the Teamsters, and that one of the people that Ruby talked to just before the assassination had talked to somebody else who was one of the top assassins in the Chicago mob, even though he was now by that time relocated in Miami and a Teamster local in Miami.
[00:32:14]  So that Ruby, you don't have to do much work to see.
[00:32:21]  That the cover up with respect to Ruby just doesn't work at all.
[00:32:26]  Ruby was a significant figure in Dallas because he was the top connection between the Dallas police, who were quite corrupt, and the Dallas underworld.
[00:32:39]  I see.
[00:32:40]  And what's fascinating about Ruby is that even though the House Select Committee on Assassinations took up the mafia angle of his connections, they still didn't bother to get at the fundamental points about the deeper aspects of the assassination.
[00:32:55]  Exactly.
[00:32:56]  But you also have to now talk about Oswald.
[00:32:59]  You see, yes, I was, you know, I actually was called an expert witness.
[00:33:04]  I went and they paid for me to fly to New York and be part of, to Washington, be part of a conference.
[00:33:11]  And I laid out the stuff about the phone calls and so on.
[00:33:16]  And their report says they boast about how they discovered these phone calls.
[00:33:22]  They didn't discover it.
[00:33:23]  I didn't discover it.
[00:33:24]  It was discovered by a staffer on the warren.
[00:33:27]  Commission.
[00:33:28]  And so they came up with the entertaining hypothesis that possibly organized crime did it.
[00:33:36]  But that doesn't begin to cover the dimensions of this plot because nobody's ever suggested that organized crime was in a position to arrange the parade route to go behind, to take a little diversion at the very end and go right past the school book depository where what the man I call the designated culprit.
[00:34:00]  Lee Harvey Oswald was waiting.
[00:34:02]  You have to bring other elements into this deep state plot besides organized crime.
[00:34:10]  Organized crime itself will not explain what we have here.
[00:34:15]  Yeah, there's no question about it.
[00:34:17]  Now, Professor, what would you say is the most compelling evidence that Oswald was associated with the CIA doing intelligence work and being manipulated?
[00:34:29]  What would that be?
[00:34:31]  Well, none of it is simple.
[00:34:35]  But there's a great deal of it.
[00:34:37]  And if we start with the Oswald, first of all, there are anomalies about Oswald's marine record when he was in Japan.
[00:34:49]  And there was a CIA employee who served in Japan who handled disbursements.
[00:35:00]  And he actually went public some years later.
[00:35:04]  He got out of the CIA.
[00:35:06]  And he and his wife were both in the CIA.
[00:35:09]  They got out and he started telling people, and eventually told the House committee that he heard from people that Oswald had been used by the agency in Japan.
[00:35:28]  It seems quite plausible because Oswald's specialty was a radar operator with the Marines.
[00:35:38]  And they were at a base at Sugi where the U 2 planes, the spy planes, these were CIA spy planes, the U 2s, took off Matsugi.
[00:35:52]  And the radar could have been connected with that.
[00:35:59]  A lot has been written about this and nothing very conclusive.
[00:36:03]  But this man, Jim Wilcott, was, I think, very brave to allege.
[00:36:15]  He was certainly an ex CIA employee, and whether he was right or wrong, it took a lot of guts to accuse, to say that Oswald had been part of some CIA operation there.
[00:36:30]  His wife died quite quickly, and Jim didn't die, but I met him quite by accident, actually.
[00:36:41]  I met him, and he said, Look what the CIA did to me.
[00:36:45]  His brain was.
[00:36:48]  Addled, and he knew his brain was addled.
[00:36:51]  Wow.
[00:36:51]  And he felt that the CIA had done that to him.
[00:36:55]  And I think that agencies, I've never really been frightened that the CIA would addle my brain or kill me because I never took an oath to keep the CIA's secrets.
[00:37:10]  But Jim had, and he knew he was breaking his oath.
[00:37:15]  Did he explain to you how they addled his brain?
[00:37:19]  No.
[00:37:21]  Quite frankly, his brain was too addled to be able to do that sort of thing.
[00:37:26]  He was a functioning human, but just barely.
[00:37:30]  Now, that really is disturbing.
[00:37:32]  Now, what other inconsistencies in Oswald's background do you find the most troubling?
[00:37:39]  His defection to the Soviet Union does not add up.
[00:37:45]  And the right wing got in on this, a lot of them very sincerely.
[00:37:52]  There was a man called Otto Atepka in the State Department who I did interview for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation years ago.
[00:38:01]  His job was to look for Soviet penetration of the US government from a State Department perspective.
[00:38:13]  And he very much questioned the fact that Oswald, when he went to the Soviet Union, got in there in a matter of days.
[00:38:25]  It usually took about six months to get a Soviet visa.
[00:38:30]  And Oswald knew that there was a back door into the Soviet Union through Helsinki.
[00:38:37]  How did he know that?
[00:38:39]  He's supposed to be a dumb Marine who suddenly asks to leave the Marine so he can support his mother in Dallas, who's been injured.
[00:38:50]  And I'm being serious here.
[00:38:55]  Check it out.
[00:38:56]  She's been injured by a falling box of candy, and Oswald is going to look after her.
[00:39:03]  Well, that was a pretext for his leaving the Marines.
[00:39:08]  Yeah.
[00:39:09]  I shouldn't say leave the Marines.
[00:39:11]  He ceased to be an active Marine and joined the Marine Reserves.
[00:39:16]  So he was still, in a sense, a Marine when he went to the Soviet Union.
[00:39:21]  And he applied for a passport.
[00:39:26]  And when he said where he wanted to go, he said he wanted to go to the University of Tulku in Finland.
[00:39:32]  How would an ordinary Marine even have heard of this university?
[00:39:37]  And why would he want to go there when he didn't know a word of Finnish and the language of instruction at the university is Finnish?
[00:39:44]  That's so odd.
[00:39:46]  All of this is obviously a pretext to do something else.
[00:39:51]  Yes.
[00:39:51]  And I talk, as I say, these are not simple matters, and a good deal of my chapter two in the book.
[00:40:00]  Is saying that he went because of his connection with U 2 activities and that a top Soviet double agent.
[00:40:14]  Well, I better leave people to read it in the book.
[00:40:18]  He was able to get in very quickly because the CIA had already made, they had pretty well recruited the Soviet consul in Helsinki.
[00:40:33]  And so he was doing things with the CIA when he issued a visa to Oswald to go into the Soviet Union from Helsinki.
[00:40:45]  So, as I say, all of these intelligence connections are tenuous, but they are also continuous.
[00:40:54]  Everything Oswald does practically when he goes there.
[00:40:58]  Then he meets Marina, and we learn from a biography of.
[00:41:06]  Oswald in Minsk, that he met her at a party of a very high level Soviet official.
[00:41:14]  So, there may have been a Soviet intelligence connection as well, but if it was, it was one which is a case of Soviet intelligence collaborating with American intelligence.
[00:41:29]  And from the very beginning, I thought that maybe that was the heart of this thing that there were doves on both sides collaborating, and that was put to an end by killing Kennedy in '63.
[00:41:46]  And one year later, forcing the ouster of Khrushchev in Moscow in 64, that those two ousters were somehow connected.
[00:41:56]  I've never even written that because I can't begin to prove it.
[00:42:00]  But when you ask a large question like that.
[00:42:05]  Right, right.
[00:42:06]  Well, I suppose this next one is kind of like that, too.
[00:42:10]  What is it about the JFK assassination that 52 years later it continues to cast a powerful shadow over America?
[00:42:19]  I keep going back to the dimensions of this case, that the dimensions are huge and go so deeply into our society that it's been impossible to dislodge.
[00:42:32]  It's a kind of cancer that is metastasized through our system, and therefore it's very difficult to extricate it at this stage.
[00:42:44]  There's no doubt about it.
[00:42:45]  And I really appreciate that you can take on these deep questions, each of which could form the basis for a whole lecture on their own.
[00:42:53]  And that you're able to condense it down so we can understand it in segments.
[00:42:57]  Now, I want to continue with Oswald for a moment.

=== Oswald New Orleans Intelligence Connections (11:52) ===

[00:43:00]  So, he comes back from Russia and he lives in New Orleans the summer before the assassination.
[00:43:07]  Right.
[00:43:08]  And he starts doing things like going on local television and presenting himself as a Marxist.
[00:43:13]  And these clips and quotes will be used eventually after the assassination to portray him as a fanatic.
[00:43:20]  Exactly.
[00:43:21]  So, do you feel here that basically these deep state forces are preparing to use him?
[00:43:27]  As a patsy in the assassination plot, and that they're scripting it so he'll be easy to present as the assassin when the time comes.
[00:43:36]  Yes, starting in August 63, yes.
[00:43:40]  Before that time, he had been in Dallas, and I could mention we're talking about intelligence connections.
[00:43:46]  He had a job at Jaggers Childs Travel, which is where the Army Security Agency had maps and things prepared.
[00:43:57]  Well, that's ASA.
[00:43:59]  Is part of the NSA, and the NSA, as we know, is just about the top level intelligence agency we have, much more secretive even than the CIA.
[00:44:12]  So there's a kind of continuity there, but not part of the assassination story.
[00:44:18]  But immediately he goes to New Orleans, well, I shouldn't say immediately, but starting in August of '63, he becomes very political.
[00:44:32]  And he's clearly playing some kind of double agent role because on August the 5th, he goes to a right wing Cuban exile group, anti Castro group, and offers to help them using his.
[00:44:51]  It's possibly even said that he offered to kill Castro.
[00:44:55]  That's not clear.
[00:44:57]  But what is not disputed is that he offered his skills that he learned in the Marines about demolition.
[00:45:07]  And so he's volunteering as an anti Castro agent.
[00:45:12]  And then four days later, he's distributing pro Castro literature.
[00:45:16]  So whatever you say about him, you have to say there's more than meets the eye.
[00:45:22]  He's playing one role on one day and the opposite role four days later.
[00:45:26]  And all of this stuff ends up with him.
[00:45:30]  Getting into a somewhat staged fight with the Cuban, the anti Castro Cuban from the DRE that he had met four days later.
[00:45:42]  They get arrested, they go to court, and the DRA Cuban is led off, and Osgood is arrested, he's convicted.
[00:45:56]  And the next thing he does is talk to, he says, I want to talk to the FBI.
[00:46:02]  And so an FBI agent.
[00:46:04]  Comes to see him, and then finally he's bailed out by somebody, a man called Bruno, who's part of the political machine in New Orleans.
[00:46:12]  So all of this is just replete with extra dimensionality.
[00:46:19]  Amazing.
[00:46:20]  But this should have created a very intense interest in Oswald.
[00:46:26]  After all, he had been in the Soviet Union, and now he's doing these things.
[00:46:31]  It's certainly not irrelevant that the FBI had a program.
[00:46:36]  A COINTEL program against the Fair Play for Cuba committee, which Oswald had announced.
[00:46:42]  He created a chapter and made himself a member of a chapter in New Orleans.
[00:46:50]  And the CIA also had such a program.
[00:46:53]  So these things, I think, would have, what he was doing would have fitted into authorized programs against the FPCC.
[00:47:02]  But you cannot, just cannot explain.
[00:47:07]  That the reports that come out to the FBI and to the CIA aren't talking about what he did.
[00:47:14]  They're talking about, again, it's detailed, but the most conspicuous of all is that then after this, he goes to Mexico City, and then a telegram comes back from the CIA station in Mexico City saying that someone called Lee Oswald talked about having spoken to someone in the Soviet embassy.
[00:47:41]  And the man he spoke to said, Oh, that was Kostikov.
[00:47:47]  And the CIA sends a cable about this to the FBI and doesn't mention Kostikov.
[00:47:54]  Unbelievable.
[00:47:57]  Yeah.
[00:47:58]  You know, they don't mention Kostikov.
[00:48:00]  If they don't mention Kostikov, it's because something is going on here.
[00:48:04]  Yeah.
[00:48:05]  And then something that anybody could see is very strange.
[00:48:08]  The FBI on the same day, Oswald has been on the watch list ever since he came back from the Soviet Union, meaning you've got to report on anything he does.
[00:48:21]  That same day, they took him off the watch list.
[00:48:25]  Wow.
[00:48:25]  So, this is to me the decisive proof that he is the designated culprit.
[00:48:31]  They want him off the watch list because they don't want people in Dallas to pick him up, because if they picked him up or even surveilled him, He wouldn't be able to play the role of designated culprit.
[00:48:46]  And by the way, if I may, I really got onto this, and I think I mentioned at the end of the book something very similar happens with at least two of the designated culprits in 9 11.
[00:49:03]  They were the CIA knew they were in this country, one of them had a multi entry visa, and they, of course, should have reported it to the FBI, and they actually circulated inside the CIA a report saying they had.
[00:49:20]  Notified the FBI, but they didn't notify the FBI.
[00:49:24]  And then in the days just before 9 11, it's just like the Osborne file gets active just before the assassination.
[00:49:35]  So the files on these two alleged hijackers become active just before 9 11, but the key information is not being put into those files.
[00:49:52]  That's why I talk about a dark force in this country that continues to affect us by major events that I call structural deep events like 9 11 and JFK that we don't really understand.
[00:50:07]  Right, right.
[00:50:09]  And there's that pattern there again in these deep events, even though they're separated by 40 years, we can still see the same methods being used.
[00:50:18]  Yeah, something like this happened in Watergate and Iran Contra too, but I don't think we have time for that on this program.
[00:50:26]  It is in the book, very briefly.
[00:50:29]  Yes, absolutely.
[00:50:30]  Well, there is one thing in the book where you mention the political activist Carlos Berngeir and the story about Oswald showing up and asking to join his anti Castro group, and Oswald really portraying himself as quite the guerrilla fighter and demolitions expert and so on against Castro.
[00:50:46]  Now, unbeknownst to Oswald, he's being taped at this meeting.
[00:50:50]  And later, this tape apparently was described in detail by a friend to Claire Booth Luce.
[00:50:57]  Who was the wife of the Time Life publisher Henry Luce?
[00:51:01]  Now, what's interesting is that later, during the 70s investigations, she calls the CIA director, William Colby, and tells him that she wants to discuss this tape.
[00:51:11]  It's on her conscience.
[00:51:13]  And there are some interesting implications to this episode.
[00:51:16]  Now, can you unravel some of that mystery here?
[00:51:20]  Yes, well, this is a story I don't fully understand.
[00:51:25]  And what I'm going to say now, I still certainly stand by.
[00:51:30]  It's very interesting to me that she felt in 1975, this is before the House Select Committee, it's when you had the Church Committee, and the Church Committee set up a subcommittee to look into CIA involvement.
[00:51:49]  I'm curious, what was the name of that subcommittee?
[00:51:51]  Do you know?
[00:51:53]  Well, the committee was called the Select Committee to Study Government Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities.
[00:52:03]  And then they had a subcommittee to see whether there was a Kennedy assassination aspect to those intelligence activities.
[00:52:14]  And when that subcommittee was set up, Claire Boothloose phoned William Colby, who was at the time the director of the CIA, and said she had a matter on her conscience.
[00:52:26]  Well, she had possibly a legal problem, too, because she knew of a tape of Oswald.
[00:52:37]  In New Orleans, and she didn't know what she should do about it.
[00:52:44]  And Colby didn't know what to do either.
[00:52:48]  They had two long phone conversations.
[00:52:52]  The second one, we don't have the complete conversation.
[00:52:57]  And it caught my eye because a few hours after this second phone conversation, where both of them are very embarrassed about this, what can they do and can they?
[00:53:09]  Get some persuade somebody to hand the tape about Oswald.
[00:53:12]  Oswald is on the tape.
[00:53:15]  A few hours after the second conversation on October the 31st, 1975, William Colby is fired and he's no longer the head of the CIA.
[00:53:28]  And this is all very open ended, and I've done a bit more research and I realize that it's extremely complicated.
[00:53:37]  But the fact that she was worried about it is clear.
[00:53:43]  And this was all started for me because I read a biography of William Pauley in which it said he had a copy of the tape.
[00:53:52]  And I do know that when the House Select Committee on Assassinations was set up, their investigator, Gayaton Fonsi, drew up a list of people he wanted to interrogate.
[00:54:06]  And the top of his list was William Pauley.
[00:54:10]  And he never got to interview Pauley because I think it was 10 days later or something like that.
[00:54:17]  Paulie got out one of his rifles and committed suicide.
[00:54:24]  Wow.
[00:54:25]  The reason that he's supposed to have wanted to commit suicide is because of his medical ailment.
[00:54:31]  Well, his medical ailment was shingles.
[00:54:34]  And I have asked a number of doctors how likely it is that somebody would shoot themselves because they had shingles.
[00:54:42]  And no doctor has ever suggested to me that it was even conceivable.
[00:54:47]  Fascinating, and that's very suspicious, as many of the deaths around the HSCA investigation were.

=== Trujillo Assassination And Pauley Suicide (08:35) ===

[00:54:53]  Of course, that was the second wave of suspicious deaths there after the first wave during the Warren Commission report investigation.
[00:55:02]  And so let's refresh everyone here on William Pauly for a moment.
[00:55:06]  Now, we touched on him earlier.
[00:55:07]  He was a millionaire ambassador to Brazil at one point, very close to CIA Director Alan Dulles and Claire Booth Luce.
[00:55:16]  And he was also close to foreign dictators like Batista in Cuba.
[00:55:21]  And Trujillo in the Dominican Republic.
[00:55:23]  So he has these deep, deep connections.
[00:55:27]  The real connection goes back to the Roosevelt era, and when Roosevelt wanted to help Chiang Kai shek in China, the government arranged for General Chennault to leave the Air Force and have a group of volunteer fighters, and arranged for William Pauley to send them planes.
[00:55:54]  And so that was when he began.
[00:55:56]  And after the war, when they had an airline that eventually became Air America, it was Chenault's private airline that he had.
[00:56:10]  After the war, Pauli and another very, very high level operative, both in and out of government, working with the CIA and banking with.
[00:56:27]  Really representatives of Meyer Lansky.
[00:56:31]  His name was Paul Heliwell.
[00:56:33]  These two men, Halliwell and Pauley, arranged for Chenault's airline to become a CIA airline.
[00:56:42]  It was originally called Civil Air Transport and then CAT Inc., and eventually in 1959 it became Air America.
[00:56:53]  So that Pauley was not just into government operations, but he was into government operations that had an underworld.
[00:57:05]  Tint to them because from way back to World War II, Chenault's planes and Chenault's pilots had been flying drugs.
[00:57:19]  And that's a whole story in itself, which I talk about in American War Machine.
[00:57:24]  Right.
[00:57:26]  So it's, and the BioPauly mission is just one more case where we find Pauli at the intersection between the CIA and the underworld.
[00:57:37]  I believe that the assassination is at the intersection of the CIA and the underworld, but I am certainly not saying that Pauli himself was part of the assassination.
[00:57:49]  I am saying that he's part of the, he's involved in specific operations which became, by piggybacking, the infrastructure for the assassination.
[00:58:01]  Right, right.
[00:58:01]  I understand that.
[00:58:02]  And he's a crucial figure in that sense.
[00:58:05]  I suppose he's a very good example of someone who has this public persona.
[00:58:09]  Of government contacts and wealth and status, but there are these deep state connections all around him, and even his presence in the Dominican Republic is intriguing.
[00:58:20]  He was a consultant, he had petroleum interests and mining interests in the Dominican Republic, so he was very close to Trujillo.
[00:58:31]  And I do in my book talk about how Trujillo had protection in the U.S. government because.
[00:58:42]  There was a professor at one of the universities in New York who was a refugee from the Dominican Republic and was attacking the killings and the rapings.
[00:58:57]  And there's even a snuff film that's supposed to have been made by Truhee.
[00:59:03]  And this man was murdered in the streets of New York.
[00:59:10]  And the investigation went a little way, but it It involved a man called Frank, who was a former FBI operative.
[00:59:22]  So there was an assassination that involved Trujillo.
[00:59:28]  Wow, it's amazing how protected some of these dictators can be here.
[00:59:32]  Of course, the other thing about Pauli is that he was instrumental in helping the CIA overthrow Arbenz in Guatemala during the PB Success mission.
[00:59:43]  Yes, that was PB Success, that was the overthrow of Arbenz.
[00:59:50]  Yes, and I do talk about that.
[00:59:52]  Yes, he supplied, I remember what he did.
[00:59:58]  I do talk about that in my book and the fact that they were under budgeted, and he supplied, what was it, the plane that leafleted or something like that?
[01:00:11]  He was a crucial part of that operation, but that wasn't an assassination operation, that was an overthrow of government operation.
[01:00:20]  Yes, and I think, as you've pointed out, Pauli was savvy enough to keep himself just outside of action like that.
[01:00:26]  But he is a fascinating study in deep state connections, and it's great you included him here.
[01:00:31]  Well, I think Pauli is the only individual in my book who gets a whole chapter.
[01:00:37]  Right.
[01:00:38]  And you've tracked back this very close relationship that he had with Claire Booth Luce.
[01:00:44]  What can you tell me about the two of them?
[01:00:46]  Well, they, first of all, they were politically very close.
[01:00:50]  They were supporters of Goldwater and then supporters of Nixon and then turned against Nixon because he got so involved in daytime.
[01:01:04]  Right.
[01:01:04]  Politically, they followed very similar paths, and then they became co conspirators in that they worked with this extreme group, the anti Castro Cuban group we've been talking about, the DRE or the Directorio Revolucionario Estudiantil, the Student Revolutionary Directorate, and they both put up money to fund boats.
[01:01:35]  That would go in and not just attack Cuba, but try to assassinate Castro.
[01:01:43]  The so called Blanquita raid in 19, let me get the date right here, I guess it was 62, perhaps, I think it was August 25th, 62.
[01:01:57]  They shot up a Cuban resort, but they thought that Castro was there.
[01:02:04]  They were hoping that they would.
[01:02:06]  I mean, it was a pretty pathetic way to sort of machine gun from the shore and hope you're going to kill Castro.
[01:02:12]  They certainly managed to kill innocent people, so they're murderers, and there was no penalty for that because that's the sort of thing we tolerated in this country.
[01:02:25]  And the CIA had a very special relationship with the DRE.
[01:02:29]  They were funding the DRE, but explicitly only for educational activities, which meant propaganda.
[01:02:37]  And then so they, for the military, they would go to people like Pauli and Claire Bruce Luce.
[01:02:44]  And I don't know how many people, actually, it may have only been those two, were funding these boats for these raids.
[01:02:52]  And it was one of the people on one of these boats who was supposed to have come up with the tape.
[01:02:58]  So that's her connection with Pauli.
[01:03:00]  I see.
[01:03:01]  The problem of what to do with the tape was a problem for Claire Bruce Luce, but it was also a problem for Pauli, because he apparently had a copy too.
[01:03:10]  One last thing about that tape is when Claire Booth Luce made that phone call that you mentioned to CIA Director Colby about the tape, and Colby was fired the next day, the guy who fired him was, of all people, Donald Rumsfeld, working in the Ford administration.

=== End Of Rockefeller Republicanism Era (02:16) ===

[01:03:28]  Right, and working by then, he was second.
[01:03:32]  Actually, the man who probably did the firing was the man in the White House at that point, who was Dick Cheney, who was not.
[01:03:42]  Donald Rumsfeld's sidekick, still in those days.
[01:03:45]  A young Dick Cheney.
[01:03:46]  Halloween Massacre.
[01:03:48]  Most people are not aware of the Halloween Massacre in 1975.
[01:03:53]  To me, that's kind of the turning point in American history because that was the end of detente.
[01:04:02]  It was the end of Colby in the CIA.
[01:04:07]  He had been resisting pressures to appoint a Team B to reassess the Soviet threat.
[01:04:15]  And his replacement, George H.W. Bush, appointed Team B and said, Hey, the Soviet threat is so extreme, we have to rapidly build up our defense budget.
[01:04:28]  I mean, a lot of things happened on that day.
[01:04:31]  It was the end of Kissinger as the Secretary of State, and particularly a decline of his status in the Republican Party, so that the Republican platform of 1976 is attacking Kissinger.
[01:04:49]  And there was a strong move in 1976 to make Reagan the candidate against Ford, who was the incumbent president.
[01:05:00]  And they didn't quite succeed there, but they, the revolution, oh, and the final thing was that Rockefeller was not to be on the ticket, that Reagan was going to be on the ticket in his place.
[01:05:13]  That was the end of Rockefeller republicanism, and that was really an end of an era going back to the New Deal where the dominant faction in the Republican Party played ball with New Deal politics and collaborated with Union.
[01:05:33]  Leaders and bought union leaders into the Council on Foreign Relations.
[01:05:38]  This was a rebellion against the Council on Foreign Relations, New York style republicanism.

=== Delivering Cutting Edge Truth To You (03:22) ===

[01:05:45]  And we got the republicanism we have now of California, Texas, a completely different, completely different republican party.
[01:05:57]  So that, as I say in my book, Goldwater republicans were as scarce in the old.
[01:06:07]  Rockefeller Republican Party, then, as the liberal Republicans of that era are scarce in the Republican Party of today.
[01:06:17]  That has been one of the real revolutions.
[01:06:21]  And it's very relevant to what I'm talking about a revolution behind the scenes in America, of which the first state, the series of deep state revolts, successful revolts, of which the first was the assassination of Kennedy.
[01:06:42]  Well, there's no question that the removal of President Kennedy set the tone for the out of control surveillance state that we're witnessing now in America.
[01:06:50]  So, when we come back, some new details that have emerged in Professor Scott's research regarding the assassination and its cover up.
[01:06:58]  We're going deep now into that deep state.
[01:07:01]  So, stay with us.
[01:07:03]  Dark Journalist Goes Deep.
[01:07:05]  My question is What are you seeing now?
[01:07:07]  What are the conditions like on the ground in real America?
[01:07:12]  You want to hear.
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[01:08:27]  This is Dark Journalists with Berkeley professor Peter Dale Scott.
[01:08:31]  Professor Scott is the author of many influential books, including American War Machine, American Deep State, Deep Politics, and the Death of JFK.
[01:08:43]  His latest book is Dallas 63 the first deep state revolt against the White House.
[01:08:50]  Powerful and very timely as we come up to the 52nd anniversary of the assassination of President Kennedy.
[01:08:58]  Now, Professor The title of the new book is compelling, of course, because it says the first deep state revolt against the White House.

=== Private Agencies Faking Intelligence Now (05:58) ===

[01:09:08]  So the suggestion is in there that it was one of many?
[01:09:12]  Well, not many.
[01:09:13]  It was three or four.
[01:09:15]  And I mentioned them in the last chapter.
[01:09:19]  One of them, not again talked very much about, is the October surprise when Alan.
[01:09:26]  It's either ex CIA officers or maybe even one or two active CIA officers.
[01:09:33]  Plot together with the oil companies to make sure that Carter will not be reelected in 1980.
[01:09:40]  And we get instead Reagan in 1980 and the Reagan Revolution thereafter, and many things which I talk more about in the American deep state.
[01:09:53]  You don't need to have deep state revolts against the White House now because they essentially control the White House.
[01:10:03]  Democrats like Clinton and Obama, who may come in with different agendas on certain matters, they just are impotent to undo what has been done and disappoint people who expected better things from them.
[01:10:23]  I certainly expected better things from Obama because he made a wonderful speech about the Middle East in Cairo.
[01:10:36]  We are deeper involved in the mess of the Middle East now than we were under President Bush.
[01:10:45]  Bush.
[01:10:45]  Incredible.
[01:10:46]  Yeah.
[01:10:47]  It's very sad.
[01:10:49]  I mean, American politics for anyone who really loves this country, and I do, who loves this country, and who, you know, I had all kinds of problems with.
[01:11:05]  The America of the 50s with McCarthyism and so on.
[01:11:10]  But McCarthyism was a premature and very inefficient manifestation of this force which became much more skilled and sophisticated and was smart enough to know how to kill a president and get away with it and to plot with an enemy country, with Iran.
[01:11:38]  To frustrate the efforts of a sitting president to bring back hostages from Tehran in 1979.
[01:11:48]  That's what the October surprise was all about.
[01:11:54]  This is tragic.
[01:11:55]  This is something terribly, has gone terribly, terribly wrong with American politics.
[01:12:02]  And I think almost every American would agree with that.
[01:12:04]  The trouble is, we don't agree on what it is that has gone wrong.
[01:12:08]  And for me, what has gone wrong.
[01:12:11]  Is that the structural part of the deep state, which is the CIA and the NSA, are now playing a far huger role in the government than had ever been imagined by the presidents like Truman, who set up the CIA, and Eisenhower, who set up the NSA, than they ever imagined?
[01:12:37]  And both of those presidents regretted publicly.
[01:12:41]  What had changed.
[01:12:43]  And I'm with those presidents.
[01:12:46]  I agree with them that what's happened is all out of whack.
[01:12:51]  The military industrial complex, that's only one phase of the dark force we're talking about, but it's totally in control now.
[01:13:00]  You cannot cut a defense budget anymore.
[01:13:03]  Or when you do, you're just preparing for a new and larger re new source of contracts.
[01:13:13]  And now it's And all you know, it's cyber warfare now and all kinds of things, trillion dollar budgets, and privatization of intelligence so that we have private intelligence agencies now doing surveillance on people like me for profit, which means that they have a stake in faking the intelligence.
[01:13:36]  This is a very serious situation.
[01:13:40]  Amazing, it's an incredible statement about our modern society that we can no longer even challenge the growth of these covert.
[01:13:48]  And overt intelligence and military programs and operations.
[01:13:52]  And as you say, now they're running these trillion dollar Pentagon budgets with no opposition really.
[01:13:59]  But I guess my question is how much is this situation we find ourselves in now the legacy of what happened in 1963 with the deep state assassination of President Kennedy?
[01:14:13]  Well, as I say, it was the.
[01:14:18]  They were able to kill a president.
[01:14:21]  And get away with it, that meant that there are certain secrets in the government which every successor agency has maintained.
[01:14:32]  And that makes them part of this process in a way.
[01:14:37]  It's certainly a disturbing state of affairs.
[01:14:39]  And I can see that every administration that accepts and promotes this false history, which is absurd for anyone who really researches it, about the death of President Kennedy becomes a kind of participant in that ongoing cover up.
[01:14:55]  Now, we'll be back with final thoughts from Professor Scott and some surprising details of overlooked figures in these deep events.
[01:15:03]  Stay with us.

=== Secret Service Penetration Blackmail Plot (11:41) ===

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[01:15:30]  Dark Journalist, the truth is never easy.
[01:15:34]  Final round here with Professor Peter Dale Scott and his new book, Dallas 63 The First Deep State Revolt Against the White House.
[01:15:44]  Now, Professor, what is really powerful in our talk today is that it rounds out so much that's in the book about the legacy of this deep event some 50 years later.
[01:15:55]  So let's just touch on some powerful deep state players in the JFK assassination here.
[01:16:01]  So, first off, what can you tell us about John Martino?
[01:16:07]  John Martino is of interest to me.
[01:16:11]  First of all, he's part of the Bio Poly plot.
[01:16:16]  And secondly, he's one of the first people, before Jack Anderson in 67, John Martino was talking about, he was attacking the CIA for working with Cubans to set up a post Castro government that he didn't like.
[01:16:37]  He's on the side of the sugar interests and the casino operators who want to get their old status back.
[01:16:46]  And even right wingers in the CIA, like Howard Hunt, did not want to go back to the Batista era of the casinos.
[01:16:56]  That's what Pauly wanted.
[01:16:59]  Pauly's favorite Cuban was somebody who had been very big in the Batista regime.
[01:17:06]  And Martino is part of that.
[01:17:08]  Now, it is true that Martino, at the end of his life, talked about what he knew about the assassination and so on.
[01:17:16]  That was picked up by a journalist who I had dealings with.
[01:17:21]  I've decided, you know, we have a number of people.
[01:17:25]  To me, John Martino is like David Phillips and Howard Hunt.
[01:17:31]  What they all have in common is they all had CIA connections, and they all, as they were dying, Sort of involved themselves in the plot in a way that I think draws our eyes away from what really happened.
[01:17:52]  And I want to say about Phillips and Hunt that both of their specialties was propaganda.
[01:18:01]  Yes.
[01:18:01]  So when they're dying and Hunt tells all this stuff to his son, St. John Hunt, You have to remember it's being told by a propaganda artist.
[01:18:13]  So I don't take that sort of thing too seriously, unfortunately.
[01:18:17]  Aha.
[01:18:18]  So you see Hunt's LBJ as the mastermind story as a piece of CIA fiction.
[01:18:25]  Right.
[01:18:26]  Yeah.
[01:18:28]  My first rule for anything that I want to go with, it has to be corroborated.
[01:18:33]  Right.
[01:18:34]  And you could argue in a vague way that some of what Phillips says is corroborated by some of what Hunt says.
[01:18:42]  But Martino, I think, is way out there.
[01:18:44]  I don't think it's really corroborated.
[01:18:46]  The fact that he knew a lot about the CIA and about CIA underground, underworld operations, that is for sure.
[01:18:56]  But the assassination, I don't know.
[01:18:58]  What about Joseph Miltier?
[01:19:01]  Yes, well, I take Joseph Miltier very seriously because, A, everyone takes him seriously because he predicted that the president would be assassinated shortly from somebody shooting from a building.
[01:19:16]  And lo and behold, that came to be true.
[01:19:20]  But nobody else, as far as I know, besides myself, has picked up.
[01:19:24]  He also predicted that it would be blamed on the Jews.
[01:19:30]  And this, I have a whole chapter about this because it was blamed publicly on the Jews by the John Birch Society, a man called Revilo Oliver writing in their journal.
[01:19:46]  But it was also inside the Secret Service.
[01:19:50]  The finger was pointed at a man whom I interviewed at length, Paulino Sierra Martinez, and it was alleged that he was talking about, or it looked in the files as if he was talking about our new backers are Jews for an operation before the assassination, which then became part of the assassination.
[01:20:16]  So.
[01:20:17]  My research on Paulino Sierra Martinez established that in fact he was somebody who was working with Harry Ruiz Williams and Robert Kennedy.
[01:20:31]  So I think that it's quite likely that Kennedy had been told something on November 22nd that pointed towards the Cubans of Paulino Sierra Martinez.
[01:20:44]  And these were indeed very sinister Cubans, but what Sierra was doing.
[01:20:51]  Was trying to persuade all of them that they would be funded if they would just conduct their anti Castro operations from outside the United States.
[01:21:03]  And this was a Kennedy priority because part of the deal with Khrushchev had been that Khrushchev would pull all his missiles out and the United States would not invade Cuba.
[01:21:18]  And this involved stopping anti Castro Cubans.
[01:21:24]  Trying to overthrow, I shouldn't have said invade, but not overthrow Castro.
[01:21:30]  I see.
[01:21:31]  And this meant stopping operations from the United States to overthrow Castro.
[01:21:38]  Well, you had a lot of very, very dangerous Cubans, and the way to finesse your way out of this was to get them to relocate, and some of them did, and some of them didn't go at all.
[01:21:52]  And Frank Sturgis was working with those people, and Frank.
[01:21:56]  Sturgis, by golly, was involved in the Biopoly plot, and DRE were not relocating.
[01:22:03]  So, it's in a sense, if the DRE had been involved in the assassination, which I don't think they were good enough, I don't think they were professional enough to be the actual assassins, but if they looked like the assassins, then, or they had done something that implicated themselves, you could link Sierra Martinez.
[01:22:29]  Because Sierra was trying to get these people to leave the country.
[01:22:32]  So he was talking to them and dealing with them, and also, I may say, dealing with people like Alan Dulles.
[01:22:37]  I mean, he was very active in that year.
[01:22:42]  Well, that's very interesting.
[01:22:43]  It sounds like the penetration of Robert Kennedy's connections with that exile community was somehow used as a kind of blackmail.
[01:22:52]  And the roots of that phase three story, which we talked about earlier, and which was clearly an attempt to keep Bobby silent and to keep him from challenging the official narrative.
[01:23:04]  But what about the, you know, where we started on this question of Miltiere making these predictions?
[01:23:10]  I think your question was about Miltiere.
[01:23:13]  And when Miltiere said it will be blamed on the Jews, it's not just, I mean, it's not surprising that the John Birch Society would do this because he himself was a Bircher or maybe a bit to the right of the Bircher, but he moved the Birchers.
[01:23:31]  But it also came from inside the Secret Service, and that sense.
[01:23:36]  It was a very sensitive prediction and a very interesting one.
[01:23:41]  So I have a whole chapter about it.
[01:23:43]  Let's take a quick listen here to Joseph Miltier being tape recorded by an FBI informant discussing with strange accuracy details of the JFK assassination that would happen 13 days later.
[01:23:55]  Get this Kennedy, I mean, get this Kennedy out there.
[01:24:07]  It's going to be a hard proposition.
[01:24:16]  I believe.
[01:24:17]  Take it up there in pieces.
[01:24:18]  Sound like you take it up in pieces.
[01:24:21]  So it is.
[01:24:22]  Boy, if that Kennedy is getting shot, we've got to know where we are.
[01:24:31]  Because you know what?
[01:24:33]  I would be a real shame if they do that.
[01:24:37]  And there wouldn't be any stone unturned there.
[01:24:43]  Oh, hell no.
[01:24:46]  They'll pick up somebody within hours of that.
[01:24:57]  Just fascinating.
[01:24:58]  And Miltier was questioned by the FBI and then released.
[01:25:02]  There is some evidence that he was in the crowd at Dealey Plaza.
[01:25:06]  There are some photos that really look very much like him.
[01:25:10]  In any case, Miltier himself died in a house fire shortly after the assassination.
[01:25:15]  And clearly he had some knowledge of the plot.
[01:25:17]  Now, I'd like to move on from him and ask you.
[01:25:21]  About a very mysterious player in all this, Secret Service agent Winston Lawson.
[01:25:29]  Well, yes, this is not a short answer, unfortunately.
[01:25:36]  Winston Lawson was a Secret Service advance agent who went down to Dallas to arrange things like the parade route and the protection for the president.
[01:25:49]  And he's of interest to me because.
[01:25:53]  He was part of, well, first of all, his testimony.
[01:25:59]  Back in 1993, when I wrote Deep Politics and the Death of JFK, he was of interest to me because he filed a report afterwards who said that the motorcycle contingent from the Dallas police were deployed to the side of the presidential car.
[01:26:20]  Well, anyone who's watched the Sapruder film knows they weren't.
[01:26:23]  Right.
[01:26:24]  And they were in fact behind the car, which made it easier to shoot from the grassy knoll because you were less likely to hit a policeman.
[01:26:34]  And we have the testimony of the Dallas Chief of Police, also in the Warren Commission records, that they were redeployed to the back of the car by, guess who?

=== Common Denominators Across Major Events (07:02) ===

[01:26:48]  Winston Lawson.
[01:26:50]  So he's an interesting person.
[01:26:52]  But in this book that I've just written, he's interesting on a higher level.
[01:26:58]  And that is that if I look for common denominators between the Kennedy assassination and the 9 11 events, what are involved in both, or now I can, originally it was just those two, but now I can throw in Watergate and 9 11 because it checks out over and over.
[01:27:23]  People who are involved in what I call the continuity of government network.
[01:27:29]  Well, That is its name.
[01:27:34]  This is COG.
[01:27:35]  COG network, sometimes called inside the Pentagon where it's housed, the Doomsday Network.
[01:27:46]  And COG planning, continuity planning, government planning is called Doomsday Planning because it began as planning for what would happen if the government was decapitated by an atomic attack and you didn't have any of the top leaders left.
[01:28:04]  You had to have an alternative government ready.
[01:28:09]  And so they hollowed out mountains near Washington and so on.
[01:28:17]  And to do it as you have to read the book to know what it's really about, but Lawson was communicating inside Dealey Plaza during the parade on a second communications channel, the White House Communications Agency channel, which is part of this alternative network.
[01:28:44]  The Doomsday Network, and it's all going through Mount Weather up in Maryland.
[01:28:50]  And he's one of two people that I focus on, the other one being the head of an Army Intelligence Reserve group who start reporting almost immediately after the assassination that Oswald had been to Cuba and that he was a card carrying member of the Communist Party.
[01:29:14]  Two facts which are phase one facts.
[01:29:17]  Both vigorously refuted by the Phase II Warren Commission.
[01:29:22]  So that is why Winston Lawson is of interest to me because he's part of that COG communications network.
[01:29:31]  Interesting.
[01:29:32]  And you and I did a whole episode on the Doomsday Network earlier this year, which is available at darkjournalist.com in the Deep Politics section.
[01:29:41]  Well, Professor, the new book is outstanding and has so many interesting dimensions to the analysis of how the deep state operates, especially.
[01:29:49]  On this high level of executive action, you had definitive work out there already on the JFK assassination.
[01:29:58]  Did you feel compelled to write this new book because you sensed the information was a breakthrough somehow?
[01:30:04]  Well, thank you.
[01:30:05]  You know, I started, I've had it on the books for a long time.
[01:30:10]  I mean, I did what I called Deep Politics II in 1994 and 1995.
[01:30:17]  It sort of was a guide to the assassination records review board that was meeting at that time.
[01:30:24]  And almost immediately I started a Deep Politics 3.
[01:30:29]  And this time, you know, way back in Deep Politics and the Death of JFK, I was looking at Oswald from the outside as somebody in Dallas and Ruby as somebody in Dallas.
[01:30:43]  And now, then I started Deep Politics 3 looking at Oswald from the inside, which is to say, from the CIA files on Oswald.
[01:30:55]  And all of that's very detailed and picky at the beginning of the book, but it leads right through the connections that you were giving, like people like Miltier, into the larger forces at work in Kennedy's era.
[01:31:16]  There was a deep state, I call it a dyadic deep state, because there's real contention between people who want a hegemonic United States that will take out the Soviet Union, destroy it.
[01:31:30]  Versus the detente or coexistence people who say, no, we have to live with it, work through the United Nations.
[01:31:40]  And then at the end, I'm talking mostly just about the deep forces.
[01:31:45]  So it starts very small and ends rather huge.
[01:31:49]  Right.
[01:31:53]  And I wish I could say that if you read it all, you know who killed Kennedy.
[01:31:59]  That is not what you're going to learn.
[01:32:01]  But I hope you will learn things of interest.
[01:32:03]  Right.
[01:32:04]  Well, that's an understatement.
[01:32:05]  But we can see the outline of the deep state operating in the background in this book.
[01:32:11]  So we're getting a glimpse of the most powerful hidden political forces in your work and in this book, especially.
[01:32:17]  I highly recommend it.
[01:32:19]  And the e book is out now with the print edition to follow.
[01:32:23]  You know, I have to mention here that I do find the term deep state being used more and more in mainstream and alternative journalism.
[01:32:30]  So that's a sign that your work is really penetrating these different levels as people are discovering more and more.
[01:32:37]  What it's all about.
[01:32:39]  Yeah, I've noticed that too.
[01:32:40]  In fact, I think it was 2000 and a couple of years ago, the New York Times had a list of the memes of the year, the new things that people were talking about.
[01:32:50]  One of them was the deep state.
[01:32:52]  Excellent.
[01:32:53]  So I got kind of a gratification from that.
[01:32:55]  Definitely.
[01:32:56]  And I think we're seeing more recognition of your original ideas and research now on a regular basis.
[01:33:02]  That's correct.
[01:33:02]  So the new book is Dallas 63 the first deep state revolt against the White House.
[01:33:08]  Just a fascinating study of the forces behind the JFK assassination and the deep state we're all facing in America now.
[01:33:16]  Thank you for spending time with us, Professor.
[01:33:19]  Yeah, well, thank you for giving me a chance to talk about it.
[01:33:21]  That's great.
[01:33:22]  Have a great afternoon over there.
[01:33:24]  Okay, thank you.
[01:33:25]  Okay, we'll talk soon.
[01:33:26]  Bye bye.
[01:33:29]  Thank you for joining me for this powerful episode with Professor Peter Dale Scott on deep state assassinations, JFK, CIA, and covert ops.
[01:33:39]  You can find more special reports, interviews, and documentaries at www.darkjournalist.com.
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