Interview: AI & The IoT: A Digital House of Cards Ready to Collapse
Cybersecurity veteran GoatTree warns that the Palantir hack, the Nancy Guthrie case, and even FBI search theatrics reveal a deeper truth: our hyper-connected AI infrastructure is riddled with backdoors, cloud vulnerabilities, and incompetence at the highest levels. From pacemakers and insulin pumps that can be hacked, to autonomous cars deciding who lives or dies, to drone swarms and IoT devices opening silent entry points, he argues we’re building a fragile house of cards and calling it progress. The solution isn’t more AI—it’s less blind trust in centralized systems that can be weaponized, manipulated, or simply fail at scale.
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All right, joining us now is a guest that we've had on many times before.
Very interesting, and he knows a lot of interesting things.
I want to get him on to talk about what Kim.com was saying in terms of Palantir, of all people, being hacked.
This is something that's happening over and over again, whether it's the Pentagon or whether it's Palantir or whether it's the NSA, these people that you think would have the sophistication to not have a problem are constantly getting hacked.
And so I want to talk to him about the increased vulnerability as we become more and more of an internet-connected, AI-connected system.
But Goatree has something to say about this Nancy Guthrie kidnapping as well that goes back to something he was working on more than a decade ago.
Thank you for joining us, Goatree.
My pleasure, David.
It's always great to be back with you.
Yeah, yeah.
Tell us a little bit about your comments about this Nancy Guthrie thing.
One of the first things I noticed about it was the fact that she had, you know, they eventually showed this picture of the perp at her door.
They said she was not using their online storage system.
She didn't pay for that.
She was just using it for real-time monitoring.
And so they said at first, well, that only we only store stuff if it's the paid accounts and stuff like that.
But then it turns out that they were storing it anyway.
That's why it showed up a few days later.
But you have other things that you noticed in it.
Talk to us a little bit about that.
Well, to me, I hate to go off sounding like a conspiracy theorist.
Well, this is the right show for that.
Yeah.
I know.
That's what I'm saying.
The scary part about it is what we turn into conspiracy theorists.
It comes true.
Yeah.
That's right.
But this thing is striking me as made for TV.
I mean, you turn the news on, everybody's breathlessly hanging on to some special analyst giving his special analyst opinion.
And I'm looking at this, and this stuff that they're doing is so amateurish.
I don't know both sides.
The criminal and the FBI.
I'm saying, I mean, I can't watch it.
I mean, I'll throw stuff at the TV and start ranting.
I just, I don't need to get my blood pressure up over this.
What's some of the amateur stuff that the FBI is doing?
Well, you know, it goes back to InfoWar days.
I sent you that build that we were doing for the Alphabet Soup.
Yeah.
Amateur Hacking Attempts00:03:28
And it was a, we called it war driving.
I don't know what sophisticated term they got right now, but you go run through and you're picking up every device, every network, everything that's being sent out.
And these things, you could deploy them.
It was a car.
I mean, if you want to show the picture of it.
Yeah, it was an interceptor dodge.
So it's one of these souped-up dodges that they give to the police interceptor.
It was a Dodge in 2015.
They got the first Hellcats that came out.
We didn't even know what Hellcats were at the time.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
I love that car.
Anyhow.
I remember you said, you can have the Batmobile.
I want this thing.
That's right.
But it was a mobile, complete, it performed several Six or seven different things at the time.
And one of them was sniffing for cell phones, cell phone pings.
It was very versatile.
And what we had done is we had went through and actually built into the grill an amplified sniffer, which, as they were saying with this helicopter, okay, first off, you've got to start.
The pacemaker only has a range of 50 feet.
If you amplify the signal or your sniffer, we had it up to about a football field, but we were on a time constraint and weren't able to really advance it out further than that.
If they wanted to throw more money and gave us more time, we probably could have expanded it exponentially.
And this was a decade ago, and I've really not kept up that much with the Nancy Guthrie story, but you said they've got a helicopter that's out.
They're trying to find the pacemaker signal, right?
Yeah, and this is what's blowing my mind.
This is just one of a dozen things that I'm like, I'm asking, what are they doing?
They are buzzing these houses at apparently 50 feet or less, since that's as far as the pacemaker will reach out.
And they're searching for that signal.
Yeah.
I'm sitting there, you know, thinking, what are they doing?
I mean, can you imagine the rotawash that's hitting the houses and the yards?
Yeah, probably got a lot of.
Got a lot of small dogs that have gone missing now.
Yeah, carton gnomes, pink flamingos raining down in Mexico someplace.
I don't know.
But I'm looking at it.
Here's this guy sitting in the door of the helicopter with a box.
I'm like, what are they doing?
I mean, they're probably roof shingles, roof tiles, everything else being ripped off these houses, not to mention vibrations.
Lance says, you know, why does a pacemaker need to announce its location in the first place?
Vulnerabilities in IoT and People00:02:20
And of course, going back to one of the things we talked about over a decade ago, these black hat conferences and DEF CON conferences that have a regular basis in Vegas.
And there was a friend of yours who was showing how they could be hacked.
That was one of the first devices that he's looking at, how you could kill somebody by hacking into these devices.
And what happened to him?
Yes.
Barnaby went, I had a man, this is one of the first, I'll say it.
People can argue with me.
I knew him personally.
He was assassinated the night before he was going to the Black Cat Convention and show this.
And the way we work is we did not show this for malicious intent.
We showed the vulnerability so that people could correct it.
Right, right.
If we showed them how simple it was to hack into pacemakers, in insulin pumps, all this, it's on them.
It is their responsibility to patch this so that they're secure.
And they will not do it unless they're drug out into the public.
Yeah, that's right.
And That night before Barnaby was supposed to give his demonstration, he died of heroin, a heroin overdose in the hotel.
That would be like someone saying David died of a heroin overdose.
Barnaby didn't do that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that was a big one.
And apparently, I mean, I hate to say it because it really hurts me to say this, but after that, I dropped it.
But I have my doubts that they have patched any of this.
And I don't want to scare people.
Right.
But well, we know that they tolerate a lot of this.
Yeah.
We know they tolerate a lot of this.
Cloud's Dark Side00:16:11
I mean, just take a look at it.
It wasn't that long ago that they had the power issue.
And look at in San Francisco or whatever.
Look at what happened to Waymo, right?
All of the self-driving cars lost it.
They blocked everything.
And that goes back to a novel that was written back in 2011, Robo Apocalypse.
And it posited how in that story, the villain was a rogue AI that brought all this stuff on.
But what it was showing was a vulnerability of society once it becomes an internet of things and an internet of people.
You have all these, and that's what's really happening.
I think what's happening with our military.
I mean, they are pushing in a really hard way to try to get everything online and interconnected, which means that it's just a lot more vulnerable, isn't it?
This is a prime example, David, of the incompetence of both the criminal.
The criminal must have like a sixth-grade understanding of technology.
And then the FBI with all these toys being built and given to them, and they don't know how to use it.
I'm just picturing Kash Patel's expression.
If you try to explain some of this stuff, I'm sure he'd be, I don't know, bug-eyed.
He can call me if he wants to.
I'll be happy to talk to him.
He's bug-eyed about everything.
Yeah, get your checkbook out, Cash.
We can fix some stuff.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Well, you know, when we look at this, one of the things that Kim.com said was, and you've talked about this many times, the back doors.
You know, when you look at the technological side of this, the really dangerous thing is that there's backdoors in everything.
And they demand to have it there.
That's correct.
They demand to have it there for the developers.
They demand to have it there for, let's say, the CEOs or whatever.
And once you've got those back doors, you get into everything.
That's one of the things that Kim.com said in terms of what was revealed with his hack into Palantir.
He said, I'll quote his tweet here that he put out.
He said, they have backdoored devices, cars, jets of world leaders.
They've accumulated the biggest archive of black male material anybody's got.
So basically what he's saying is, Palantir is the new Jeffrey Epstein.
Yeah.
And, you know, remember Colonial Pipeline?
Oh, yeah.
That fell off.
That fell off the map in a hurry because, oh, no, the CEO did it.
He wasn't no big technology spoof or CFO.
I better be careful here.
One of the insiders did it.
I don't know who.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was backdoors, backdoors, and all that.
Then the railroad hacks, you know, it's like back doors.
And that's one reason I left.
I finally said enough.
You cannot help the people that's unwilling to help themselves because they will say we've patched it, but nothing's been patched.
You give them top shelf.
Well, they may patch it.
That's like saying the window's broken, and you take a hammer and knock more out, and then put a piece of plywood over it.
You know, it's like, what?
I remember you're talking about the banking industry, the ATMs and stuff like that, you know, finding the vulnerabilities in that.
And you tell the companies and they don't want to go out and fix it.
No, I laid the whole thing out where they had tiers.
Where if you stole over a million dollars in cash, it was cost of operations, raising rates on your users.
Yeah, we'll just spread it out.
Yeah, and then after you got to a certain level, which back in the old days, about $5 million, I mean, it was like the Bangladeshis did.
They went in there and they stole like, I don't know, $100 million.
They had every red team in town and every cyber dog they could find turned loose on them.
They got them like it within a week, which, if, you know, that was back in the days when people were taking care of business.
This stuff going on right now, I'm like, man, what has happened?
But I think this whole thing's orchestrated.
It's like built for the 24-7 news cycle, and you have all these specialists that aren't very special.
Yeah, I look at this, and when I look at this full speed ahead, let's incorporate AI into everything in the Pentagon.
They've convinced themselves they're in an AI race with the Chinese and they got to get there first.
Doesn't matter if this stuff works or not.
Doesn't matter if we can control it once we let it loose.
And that's the key to it all.
Well, all this technology that we've built and handed to these people, they don't know what to do with it.
They're going to plug it into AI.
Make it simple.
Let's keep it, you know, the KISS method.
Keep it simple, stupid.
We can put a trained orangutan on it.
And sure, it'll work great.
Yeah, it's going to be when you look at the fact that they are constantly getting hacked.
As I said before, you've had the NSA get hacked.
The CIA is on Vault 7 tools, the tools that they used to hack other people and disguise their identity.
That got stolen from them.
So it's this spy versus spy countermeasures and counter-countermeasures that keep going and going.
And yet, in spite of that and the vulnerabilities that all this heavy automation introduces into every system, they're escalating this at a very rapid rate.
And I think much, much faster than they can actually keep track of it or test it.
Exactly.
And the thing is, if you're not competent enough in person or have a person that can manage it, you plug it into a mainframe, which is what they'll be running.
Who's going to be running the AI?
The same idiot that can't manage what he's already got?
What do you think about these AI agents?
Because occasionally we get stories when things go really, really wrong.
Like it deletes an entire company's database and says, oh, I just deleted your database.
I'm sorry about that.
I know you told me not to do that, but I did it anyway, and you can't get it back.
We've actually covered stories like that.
What do you think about this and this race to put AI agents out and give them control over real-world assets?
What do you think?
Well, once again, this is one reason I finally just threw the towel in on information security and pen testing and the whole thing.
You've got to go back once again through history, which we've been screaming about for God 30, 40 years.
Everything's on the cloud.
What is the cloud?
Well, it's a new term, but it's an old, what we used to call FTP server.
File transfer protocol.
Well, that sounds so old school.
Let's name it the cloud.
It's sitting on someone else's server.
Someone else is managing it.
You simply use it.
And now you're going to turn AI loose on it.
It's like the fox in the hen house.
All the chickens in the hen house, they've got a real problem.
And what the fox eats is what the fox wants to eat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And of course, the Pentagon, I remember when they were talking about the contract, there was this big competition between Amazon and Microsoft as to who was going to provide the Jedi system.
And that was basically putting all the Pentagon stuff on the cloud.
It's like, why would anybody do that?
It gives everybody in the world essentially an opportunity to take a have their shot at cracking it, right?
Once you do that.
Yeah.
One-stop shopping.
You know, if you know who's on the cloud, pick the account and start cracking.
Yeah, that's right.
Right.
You've given them physical access.
You have to wire control.
You give them physical access, and then they just need to figure out how to get past the electronic obstacles that are there.
But, you know, they basically gotten them a great deal of the way there.
I mean, if you really wanted to keep something that was vitally important secure, I would think you would remove it off of the ability for people to be able to even get to it unless they went into some facility that physically got into some facility.
Then they would have to still go through the process of breaking in through the electronic stuff.
But they don't take those kind of precautions, not even with the stuff that is at the very essence of what these agencies are doing.
You know, I have had calls at three in the morning where a hack was in process.
They're downloading a company server.
And my suggestion to them was kill the power.
You can't do that to these clouds.
Yeah.
That's right.
You know, I hate to keep going back.
I didn't intend to do this, but I keep going back to the past tech.
We got it right the first time.
They keep tinkering with it and don't know how to use it.
They've over-perfected things to the point where it's unusable.
Yeah.
I'll tell you this: Corey Doctorow.
Corey Doctorow, the science fiction writer has got a term for that.
He calls it inshittification.
Sounds good to me.
Yeah, it looks like what we're saying all the time, doesn't it?
You know, when I came out of Compaq in 1986, this is my first expedition into the military.
They wanted to secure the nuclear ballistic missiles.
I'll tell you how we did it, and they were never hacked.
The computer system was totally offline.
There was no way to reach it from the outside.
And, you know, you see the movies.
The codes were on five-inch floppy disk.
That was what was in the safe.
If the signals came through, they had a series of releases.
Finally, they would get around to cracking open the safe with the floppies.
The floppies were updated every day.
They were delivered with the mill, I guess.
So then, if you got to a certain level, The operators would put the floppies into the PC and the countdown would start.
Once you got to that zero, you would turn a key, like your car key, and then you could push the button and all hell would break loose.
They would never hack, but people don't understand that allowing outside access to your material is your own doings.
You cannot help the stupid.
And that's the key.
Like you and I say, in terms of putting stuff on the cloud, we see this happening over and over again.
How did they break into the NSA?
How did they steal the CIA's tools?
How did they get into the Pentagon files?
It's because they allow people to have access to the database.
And then it becomes a much, much, much simpler problem.
Still, there's some things that you have to get past, but if you don't keep that offline, then if it's online, then they've got an opportunity.
Well, I would probably, I've not kept up with Palantir.
I've been off on some other stuff.
But I'm going to venture a guess that either the government or Palantir probably, since Trump's been doing away with a lot of government employees, probably have a government employee that was assigned Palantir or vice versa that was terminated.
And human resources, for whatever reason, dropped the ball and did not take their credentials to that cloud back.
Well, on the open market, something like that's very valuable.
If you're unemployed and you've got the opportunity to sell something as simple as your credentials, boom, done.
Yeah, that's right.
Now they're probably going to try to invoke something like, oh, it was so complicated you can't understand it.
Well, fine, whatever.
Look at what they're doing to this guy case.
They're displaying.
They don't have very much skills.
But this is how the real world works in cybersecurity.
And it's stuff that is going on.
They were talking about her ransom in Bitcoin.
I'm like, this guy don't know what he's doing.
Don't he understand that Bitcoins are recorded forever on the blockchain?
That's right.
So I have to go back to John McAfee.
Remember, you interviewed him and he was talking about the Monero coin.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
And now the Monero is almost.
There's also Zane 20 years.
Yeah.
That's been around for a long time.
Now they've got several others that are out there.
It never been breached.
When that goes into the system, it's gone and there's no way they're tracing it.
So that tells me that the dude that don't know how to cover himself in this camera, you know, in the camera, doesn't understand what he's doing.
Secondly, if I was going to take a ring camera or whatever, pop it out of there, I'm going to use some real serious low-tech, and it's called the heel of a boot and crush it.
That's right.
Yeah, you know, when you look at this stuff, it's like Bitcoin, for example, as you said, you know, it's going to be traceable.
And that's why I look at this.
And we've had situations where people have had their accounts hacked.
One of them was a guy who was a billionaire, and it was nearly a million dollars.
And, you know, people are saying there, they're watching these transactions, these large transactions they call from whales, right?
And so some guy's watching these transactions go by, and he sees nearly a million dollars go through there, and he goes, hmm, who is that?
And he's able to track the guy down.
Yeah, he tracks a guy down and he calls him.
He's a music or billion.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hundreds of millions and billions of dollars.
But he found out who this guy was, Goatry.
He finds out he not only sees a transaction there, but he's able to trace that down and figure out who it is and sends him a text or an email and says, you know, why are you doing this?
Or ask him something about it.
And the guy didn't know that he had been ripped off.
It was a stranger who saw the transaction, tracked it down to him and contacted him.
So when I look at Bitcoin, to me, you know, we talk about putting these things out there where they're available.
It's almost like you have a safe with all your money in it, and you decide that where you're going to keep that safe is going to be on the town square.
That may be a very secure safe, but it's at the town square.
Anybody's got a crack at it that wants to take it, right?
You've got a $10,000 safe and a $2 lock.
You know, that's right.
But then, you know, I've got to go back and I can explain some of this to you.
MEX and Blockchain Vulnerabilities00:14:52
I was working with ARPA on the Memex project.
Now, there's something that's going to be really scary when you plug it into AI.
It's called MEX.
And they had a parallel, I'm trying to recall the code name for it.
They had a Naval Labs.
Man, my memory isn't what it used to be, but they were running in 2014, 2015, they were running a simultaneous blockchain that mimicked Bitcoin.
So I don't know whatever happened to that project, but I did download some of the source data, which I don't know where it got off to.
But you could set up accounts that mimicked each other.
Same number, same everything, but they're on a different blockchain.
And they would jump from blockchain to blockchain.
So if someone got a hold of that, I mean, literally got a hold of that and were able to use that technology and convince someone to jump or not even unknowingly jump from the blockchain to that other blockchain.
You got them, but you got control of them.
Wow.
And all these work off notes anyhow.
So if you build a clone node, you can build these wallets any way you want.
I mean, at one time I was running nodes.
I think I had like 300 Bitcoin wallets.
I don't know.
It's time I was just experimenting.
I just keep clicking formal wallet.
Now, you know, anyhow, I lost a bunch of Bitcoin doing that, you know, trying to transfer and all that.
But yeah, all this comes, everything we're talking about, you throw out a subject, it all comes back to what it was done right the first time.
And you keep tweaking, keep it just to the point where it's unworkable.
People are unable to use it.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, that's the sort of thing we see in engineering.
Usually there's a guy who's got a vision for this thing.
And you have a very small, one or a couple of people who put together a system.
That's what I've seen.
And people say, oh, that's pretty good.
They buy it and then the corporation takes it in.
And then you get a team of people who didn't have anything to do with the development of it, don't really know what's going on with it.
And the thing gets ruined as they maintain it, quote unquote, or add features to it or this or that.
And that's kind of what's going to be happening with the AI stuff, I think.
They're using it for programming.
And what I've seen from a lot of people say, well, because I didn't put this thing together, it's really hard for me to maintain it.
I don't really understand what it did or why it did what it did.
And it's kind of opaque, even though I've been in this for decades doing this.
Of course.
I mean, you could do anything on AI.
You can write books.
You can compose music.
You know, I hate to go way off into the weeds, but one of my I thought was the funniest thing I'd ever seen on YouTube.
There is a music video called That's One Ugly Baby.
I don't suggest you users like that to watch it.
It's AI.
They took an old Motown song and modded it to where they're singing about ugly babies.
You know, I was like, man, this is getting just too crazy.
Yeah.
But with AI, you know, you have got people that don't understand what they're doing using it.
And they're going to, once again, let's simplify.
Let's put everything on AI and let it control it.
It'll give us warning beeps of something's wrong.
No, it won't.
Yeah, as a matter of fact, you go back to Gaza and a lot of people are saying, well, I think this was set up because this is in an area where the Israeli government had automated guard towers and things like that.
Very high-tech, very sophisticated.
And you see things like that.
And everybody believes that because it's high-tech, sophisticated, expensive, that it's going to be working correctly.
So therefore, they had to have had a false flag.
Now, that may have happened.
However, when you look at some of the things, you sent me a video of a guy that was, what was it, eight years old?
And he was talking about how to become invisible to surveillance cameras.
And it was a really simple idea.
Really simple idea.
As a matter of fact, we got a lot of works.
Yeah.
We got a, where is that clip?
Do you have it?
Yeah, here it is right here.
I'm going to pull this up and show the audience here.
What he did was he looked at his head as just this glowing ball and you can't see anything.
And his insight was that since they put these cameras, these surveillance cameras around, they want them to be somewhat hidden from view in terms of people understanding that they're being surveilled, they will put night vision on them.
And so he said, if you get something that has the same frequency that this is using in terms of light stuff, that you could put that on your glasses and put out a very bright spectrum of light that it's only sensitive to, but that people can't see.
It's not in the visible spectrum.
But it's going to basically create a massive lens flare for that night vision camera and it can't see who you are.
Yeah.
Well, you know, when we were pen testing, we would take these RF diodes that were tiny and we'd build a hat band out of them.
And then put a nine little old, oh, I forget what size battery it was.
And we walk around there just in plain sight and the cameras couldn't read us.
If we really wanted to get stealthy, we would either, well, I think we sewed them into like jackets and stuff.
And you couldn't make the heads tell us out of body shape, face, anything.
It's just one big glowing orb.
That's right.
And we were hacking the hacking ATM machines, and they were like, How are you doing this?
Well, we were deliberate at their permission, right?
Right.
You know, pen testing.
Hey, you're ATM are vulnerable.
But I walk through facilities and they're like, oh, it's a ghost.
Well, that's the thing.
You know, when you look at this, when it's being used for something like the defense industry or something like that, you know, you think that you've got some really sophisticated system, and yet it might have a very, very simple vulnerability like you were just talking about.
And, you know, that's the thing I see happening with the rapid introduction of this technology.
You know, it used to be back in the day when I was in engineering.
That was a long time ago, about 40 years ago.
I remember one of the reasons that I didn't want to get, of course, I didn't want to develop stuff for the military because of the way what the military was doing with it.
But I had friends who got into that and they were complaining.
They said, the stuff we're using is so old.
We're not allowed to use anything unless it's been around and tested for years, unless they've taken it to the North Pole, unless they've taken it to the desert and all the rest of the stuff.
They've got to, you know, have this stuff.
It's got to be tested in all these different environments and have a very long history behind it.
That's not really what's happening now.
They're rushing to get stuff out.
And I think that's creating a whole new class of vulnerability.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, so it's like the technicians and the people that you teach this stuff to, they're retiring.
They're on their way out.
It's like William Benny.
Man, you ought to be able to, I know he's deep in his 80s, but you should try to book William Denny Benny.
Yeah.
And try him tell some horror stories.
Yeah.
My son Lane just said, probably looked at the footage and said, we've been hacked by a lens flare.
We've been hacked by the human torch.
Yeah.
So it's like we've been hacked by aliens.
Where's this spaceship?
Maybe it's Lucifer, a being of light.
Yeah.
But that's what I'm saying.
Back in the day, you did not put it out until it was perfected.
Now, you've got these.
And another problem that we have with the tech industry is who wants to go to work for the government, sit in a cubicle for $100,000 a year when you can go out there, take some existing technology, tweak it a little bit, and go and have a $100 million IPO or work for someone, and they pay half a mill or a mill a year for what you know and know how to make work.
So the government's behind the eight ball on this one, big.
And I was watching that with that Miss Guthrie, and I'm like, what did they do?
Turn loose the village idiots to solve this?
I mean, you've got the village idiot doing the crime.
Now you've got the village idiots running it.
Oh, yeah, you really do literally have the village idiots running the FBI.
That's for sure.
Cash for tolling crew.
That's amazing.
Call me cash.
Yeah, call me.
Get your checkbook out.
We'll fix some stuff.
Anyhow, this kind of stuff, and now you're talking about AI.
The people that really know AI, they're out there doing stuff that actually makes money for themselves.
The people that $100,000 crew, which I don't mean to be slamming anybody, they really don't know what they're doing.
They're going by the manual.
And you only know what the manual tells you.
That's right.
Yeah, that's the only reason I just threw up my hands, said, you know, I've got better things too than keep doing this because you tell these people this.
That's why I was showing you these old links and stuff.
We've already solved it.
Where is it at?
Use it.
So where do you see this going?
Where do you see this going as we have our, as technology gets more and more advanced, as the rate of change increases more and more, as there's less and less ruggedness in the system, more and more vulnerabilities?
Where do you see this all happening?
It seems to me like it's getting shakier as it is getting more advanced and it's happening at such a rapid rate that nobody's keeping up with it.
Where does this all crash?
Do you see that happening soon?
What do you think is going to happen?
That's what I look at.
I think the house cards up this high.
Yeah.
So how high can they continue building that house of cards?
I really don't know.
I think, you know, I think if people had a reality check, but they're all disbelieving.
They're all not understanding the obvious.
It will continue until something really bad happens.
And I don't know what you define as bad.
You know, where is bad anymore?
Yeah.
Million people dead?
10 million dead.
So, and then when you work for the government, it's that old saying, politicians and government people, I'm not responsible for the things I do.
Yeah, that's right.
They got community.
How can you stop it?
Yeah, how do you stop it?
Yeah, you have so many different systems that are involved in it.
You got medical systems, infrastructure, transportation.
You have defense systems with weapons.
I mean, now there's going to be a major push for autonomous killer weapons, autonomous killer robots, as well as drones and things like that.
By the way, you know, there was also another interesting video.
Do you have that?
Yeah, we've got it.
I'll show the audience this.
This is protecting yourself from an aerial drone using an umbrella.
Thermal drone versus umbrella.
Yeah.
Go ahead and open the umbrella.
And look at this split screen here.
It looks like, let's go to IR.
I can see anything.
They can see what he's doing.
He puts the umbrella on and he disappears now completely.
I'm looking at a steep right and it's still quite difficult, to be honest.
I think he's slightly hearing the drone and pointing his umbrella towards that.
Now, can you close it?
Yeah.
And open it again.
That's too good, man.
That's too good.
You know, it's kind of interesting because that's where Eric Schmidt is hanging out now.
You know, he left Google and he has been a big man on campus at the Pentagon for quite some time, setting up very advanced systems and AI-based systems and that type of thing.
And yet, you know, they could go out and spend billions of dollars on some kind of autonomous killer drone thing.
They're talking about creating a no man's land, which is pretty much what they've done in the area between Ukraine and Russia now with all the improvised drones.
And that's changing the nature of warfare very, very rapidly.
And so you put all that stuff together and then, you know, maybe somebody finds a way to a vulnerability that's as simple as opening up an umbrella so they can't see you with the advanced targeting that it's got.
Well, even worse is they are perfecting the drone swarms.
I mean, at New Year, you remember, I forget, it was one City that was doing demonstrations of art in the sky with the drone swarm.
Everybody's like, oh, ah, this, I'm not even going to tell you how to do it.
It's one simple modification where you can put a bomb on it and it will release it.
So if you've got $500 drones in a swarm loaded with whatever, Molotov, cocktails, whatever.
Drone Swarm Threat00:05:06
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've got a force to be reckoned with.
Oh, yeah.
As a matter of fact, all this.
You know, that's.
Yeah.
I was going to say, Goat Tree, all the.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry.
This all this push about trying to stop ghost guns and the licensing, not licensing, but the requirements that are being talked about in terms of a Washington state, isn't it, Lance?
Yeah, Washington State.
There's a bill in New York, and now there's, I think, five states that are putting out similar stuff.
It's pushed.
Yeah, they're trying to stop 3D printers.
And as Lance has taken on all this, and I think it's the right one, he doesn't think they're as worried about ghost guns and creating ghost guns as much as they are worried about stopping people printing their own drones.
Right.
Hey, you could, I'll tell you what.
I have a 200-drone swarm full of all kinds of nasty stuff I can drop on you, and you've got a ghost gun.
Who are you most worried about?
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
That's the asymmetric warfare of the future right there.
Yeah, you got low-tech people playing with high-tech stuff.
Yeah, and they're desperate to stop that down, you know, shut that down right now.
So, uh, yeah, oh, yeah, it is.
It's interesting as we see these things changing very rapidly.
But it is an odd mixture, and that's kind of where you operated as cybersecurity.
This odd mixture of technology and human nature.
And always, when I talked to you about the different cases that you're on, it was always almost kind of like a Colombo thing.
You know, the Occam's razor was, well, who is it that's got a gripe with a company, or who is it that could really profit from this because they know the back where the back door is.
So, really, more often than not, it was really about human nature in terms of finding the culprits in these things.
Well, now, here's something: I've got all mine shut off, but if you're on automatic updates on your computer or PC, whatever they call them now, your phone, any device that has automatic update, you've got a back door open.
Now, if I wanted to say, if I wanted to, let's start up Microsoft.
I hack in there and get that code.
I can put anything I want on your device under their name.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You aren't sure what they're sending to you, but you're totally got your vendor door open, and it can come in that way.
They do do a lot of sharing with the government.
So, I mean, who knows who they shared with?
Yeah.
And the reasons why.
A lot of this software is, I mean, this is so old school that they allow you to create back doors if you know how.
So you can have your own personal back door into anything.
Yeah.
And while I'm on my rent, people really ought to shut off their vendor.
Go download what you're sure you're downloading.
Oh, man.
My temper got up and I forgot what I was going to say, so go ahead.
So, um, so turn off your automatic updates.
Any other things that you would tell, I mean, I do that just because I don't want them constantly messing with my machine.
You know, an update, they may break something, even if it's a legit update.
So, uh, yeah, I always turn that off.
Any other things like that that you tell people?
You know, I hate to sound as nihilistic as I do, but it's to the point where if you could use um 1960s technology, that's the only safe place I can think of going.
I'm talking about uh putting in a landline, I'm talking about finding 1960, 1970s version TVs, yeah, TVs that don't watch you back, yeah, you know, don't don't record when you're what you're doing on TV or what you're watching or anything else.
Uh, you know, it's like we have created such a society that is so reliant on tech that we're letting it get away from us, yeah, it really is, yeah.
And I think that's the government's involvement in it when you look at what they have funded.
It's what Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex, and he said also the academic aspect of it as well.
And it's because the government is funding all this stuff that the government is funding things that can be used for centralized control and manipulation of people.
And that's why when we talk about this, we talk about this all the time with Eric Peters when he comes on.
Wi-Fi Surveillance00:10:20
You know, get yourself a car that doesn't have all the electronics, especially not a car that is constantly online.
Because of the types of vulnerabilities that you've pointed out with the Black Hat conferences and things like that, they've illustrated just how dangerous these things can be.
It could be somebody hacking it, or it could just be that the device itself is not working properly.
Do you remember when we went back to those automated cars where you just turn it on, you sit there behind the steering wheel, and you're not in control of anything?
That's right.
I explained it then that this is all on a sliding scale of basically, I forget what they even called it, but it's on ATT just texted me.
Thou shalt not talk about them.
It's on a sliding scale, basically, of probability.
So let's say the president on that scale one to 10, president gets a 10.
It's programmed in your car.
You're going to avoid running into him at all costs.
And it becomes, of course, the programmers, they're going to give themselves a 10 too.
It becomes who's the decider here?
Let's say you give a school bus load, yeah, the short bus loaded with kids an eight, but you have a rare species of squirrel that is in danger and you give it a nine.
So you're driving alone, and that squirrel runs out at you, and you've got the short bus coming at you.
The computer's going to say hit the short bus because it's lower rated than the squirrel.
Yeah.
Right.
So, you know, who gets to decide these things?
Who gets to decide of who's a zero?
You know, that means everything runs into you.
Well, and of course, it's not even just that kind of hierarchy that could be imposed on us of values, but it's also if the device is going to work properly.
I mean, we just had a situation where, you know, car was passing another car, and because the auto lane change thing misread it, they're trying to get out of the way of the oncoming traffic, and it pushed them back in at the last minute.
And they had a head-on collision and killed everybody in the car.
So you have these types of situations.
Yeah.
You know, people are like, oh, this is great.
I can read, well, nobody reads papers anymore.
I can text crazy stuff on X and drink coffee while on my commute.
You have no clue what your car is programmed to do.
That's right.
That's right.
You have no input on it.
And actually, I'm sitting, you know, I've got a pristine 1998 car.
It don't even have a CD player.
I'm sitting in it right now.
It's like, I don't want, I could go buy whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, that's exactly.
You're going to hack this one.
You have a lot of the cars like Teslas and things like that.
Even the door locks are under kind of software control.
So if there's an accident, you can't get out of your car.
It's difficult for them to open the car doors.
I had a friend of mine with a Tesla.
He got stuck in the car for quite some time.
He had to get, fortunately, had his phone with him and he contacted tech support to get them to open his door.
And it wasn't the heat of summer.
So, you know, he didn't die of the heat in the meantime.
But, you know, once you overly complicate things, you take away the ability for people to just even crank down their window, for example, since now all the cars have got electric windows.
Now you've got issues of people when they drive into a body of water, they can't get out of the car like they used to be able to.
So those are just simple examples of what's happening as we needlessly complicate everything.
I think we are turning into a Rube Goldberg society, even if it's not malicious.
It's even worse.
It is just out of complacency.
I don't know if complacency is the right word.
Laziness, it has been so simplified that we go with it without thinking about what we got.
Yeah.
You know, oh, okay.
My coffee, we went over this with IOT years ago.
I've got a IOT coffee pot, and you don't realize how open IOT is to everything.
I don't even know if they call it that anymore.
Yeah, the Internet of Things.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Well, my pet peeve is like.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
Well, if I'm a black hat and I really hate you, I can hack into your IoT coffee pot and I don't know, do something, set it on fire, and it burn your house down.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, it's to the point where we have a.
I was going to say, we got a television in our living room that is, you know, of course, they don't give you a knob on the front where you can just turn the thing on or off, or even a button, nothing that you can see.
And they put it on the back, and it's black on black.
And it's like, I'm trying to reach around there.
It's almost, you can't see anything, and you can't really even feel anything.
They don't even give you some kind of a tactile feedback to turn the thing on or off manually.
It's like, and now we're struggling to find the remote control because we've got a two-year-old that is roaming the house and moving everything around.
But it's like, why complicate this?
Why can't we just have a button that turns it on or off or a knob that turns it off?
Everything is, you know, the geeks are out there thinking, oh, wouldn't it be cool if we hid this and we did that and we put that under software control.
And they've made everything very, very difficult.
But anything that you would tell people in terms of precautions like, you know, make sure that you don't have automatic update on, of course, but other things like that that'd be of any practical value to people.
When you're not using it, and everybody's going to say, I've lost my mind, but if you're on a router, turn it off when you're not using it.
Of course, you're always using it.
So I would go hardwired into computers and things that are online.
I would just plug directly in.
I would not be using Wi-Fi anymore than necessary, which I'm doing right now.
But it's a necessity, but it's an unneeded necessity because it opens you up to all sorts of things.
Whereas if you plug directly into the wall, you have knocked off a lot of this, well, like I was saying, war driving.
I could drive around, and if I can find a router open, that's what we called war driving.
I can get in your router and do all kinds of cool stuff.
Yeah, that's right.
And of course, they can even use the Wi-Fi signals.
They can even use the Wi-Fi signals to see you inside of your house now.
You know, they can kind of reverse engineer those signals that are there.
But you have the bonus of a health issue as well.
What you did on your television, you don't even realize it.
I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it's a Sanyo.
No, it's some.
I don't know who actually makes it.
It's some off-label thing that we got for cheap sale on.
Okay, good.
Faisal or something like that.
So maybe it is made by Sanyo.
I don't know.
But yeah, go ahead.
Well, what you found is when you turned it off and that black screen was there, was without even realizing it, these things now have gotten to where they're using subliminal programming.
Where let's say you sit down and watch the news.
I don't know which news.
It don't matter.
You've got, well, first off, you've got several billion pixels.
You cannot use several billion pixels for one image.
So, and I can prove it if people want to, I mean, if they care enough, put the TV on the news right now.
Look at the newscaster in the eyes and walk up to the TV until you can see the two white dots in their eyes.
Those white dots there are meant to hold your attention.
So naturally, you're looking at the face.
And in the background, they will have some other pixels dedicated to basically ghost programming.
That is for the advertisers.
So you're fixated on watching that broadcaster.
And on your peripheral vision, you're catching whatever they're advertising.
Let's say hamburgers.
You sit there long enough, it's going to get into your subconscious.
The next thing you know, you're craving hamburgers.
Yeah, that's why all those pixels are there.
It's like they live, right?
Yes, or you ask your widely deterred.
That's right.
Behind the news, it's just saying, obey and comply.
And I'll tell you, I will tell you the funniest thing in the world to do.
And it's so simple.
Just mute the broadcaster or you can't hear them and watch them.
They look like the most ridiculous thing on the earth.
Back to Basics00:02:59
I'm serious.
Without that layered sound, you're going to be going, What in the world?
But when you combine it all together, it works.
It's addictive.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Yeah, there's a lot of gone back to the old.
I haven't gone back to old Zenith TVs yet, but I wish I could.
Yeah, I mean, my big thing is, you know, just the on-off button.
You know, it sometimes is difficult to turn it on.
Sometimes it turns itself back on when you don't want it on, you know.
So ours does that as well.
There's some ghosts in the machine for sure.
Well, maybe it knows best.
It's like David's getting addicted to this.
Let's turn it off.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, that's one of the things.
Jack Lawson, for example, he's been putting together the Civil Defense Manual for quite some time.
And he always deliberately put it out as a two-volume paper.
Because, again, you know, when it hits the fan, you're going to need to have that book that's there.
And other people that I've talked to that are about prepping and other things that they have computers that they have stored things on, and they've got it on, let's say, CDs or something like that, if it's really important and they want to have it.
And it's on an air gap computer that's not connected to the internet ever.
And so there's certain things like that that are important for people to do, I think.
That's one of the smartest things people.
I mean, I'm not saying preppers, but you know, what if we have a it could be any incident hurricane?
Well, you don't have very many hurricanes in Tennessee, but you did have a flood and you're isolated for, I don't know, for several days, and you need knowledge that you've already downloaded.
I don't know, maybe medical knowledge, survival knowledge, right?
Whatever.
It's there on hand where you can't access it because it's sitting on YouTube or something, which is down.
Yeah, yeah.
But if you got it in a book, you got it.
Well, or the video, some people got to where they can't read anymore.
It's like, give them a video.
That's right.
Whatever it takes.
But, you know, that collection of knowledge is probably one of the smartest things a person can do.
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
Well, those are some helpful hints for people.
It's always great talking to you.
Always interesting talking to you.
And you're not doing cybersecurity anymore, right?
You want to, are you still doing any writing?
Yeah, I am.
I've redirected my focus to something that's called.
It's called quantum levitation.
Quantum levitation.
Yep.
Quantum Levitation: Changing Materials00:04:28
And it is in its infancy.
And if we can ever crack some codes on some materials, it is going to change the world.
Once again, here I am talking about changing the world and reverting back to old school stuff.
So go figure.
Yeah.
If you can imagine freight trains being powered by like leaf blowers, that's the energy it would take.
You have a thin line where it doesn't touch anything.
It applies to cars.
It applies to everything.
The technology's here, but a lot of the components aren't.
And it's still in its infancy.
But when that does hit, you're going to get more industry pushback, probably outlawed.
I mean, you got, you know, the tiring industry, it's what, probably a trillion-dollar a year business.
Well, they are not going to like going the way of the horse and buggy and things like that.
I'm not talking George Jetson stuff, but I'm talking where your car is traveling maybe an inch off the ground and it also is encapsulated where nothing can run into you.
It's magnetism.
It pushes back.
Negative, pushes back from positive and that sort of thing.
That is interesting.
Also, I was just looking at.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
Well, go ahead.
I was just looking at.
If you're going to do deep space.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
Okay, go ahead.
If you're doing deep space, if you're doing deep space travel, you're going to have to have an artificial gravity.
You can't just let people float around, stuff float around in the vehicle for years because if they're unable to, I mean, they get the muscular or not, they have muscular deterioration, stuff like that.
What if they shoot for a planet that has time 10 gravitation?
They aren't even going to be able to walk.
Yeah.
So, you know, it applies to everything.
You could put knee pads and elbow pads and I guess a helmet on people that are prone to fall.
And they could fall all they want.
They'll never hit the floor.
And it's just, you know, it's just, it will rewrite the rules of the world.
And here I am saying, well, you know, I want to go back to 1960s technology.
We had it right first.
We had them doing this.
So go figure.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
You know, it's kind of interesting.
I just saw an article about how they're, you know, between Musk and Bezos, and they got their different ideas about what they want to do with space exploration.
But they're also talking about the same kind of approach that Gerard K. O'Neill was talking about in his book, High Frontiers, at the end of the 1970s.
And they're talking about doing Maglev launching of materials off the moon's surface.
So, yeah, there's a lot of things like that that are going to change things very, very rapidly.
And again, as we look at it, it's not just us going back and hanging on to the things that are familiar.
There is a lot of wisdom in terms of pulling back against some of these technological things.
Just because it's something new and just because it's some kind of a gee whiz technology thing doesn't necessarily mean that you want to do that, you know.
And I guess that's one of the things as engineers we look at and we always get caught up in a new way of doing things, but sometimes there's wisdom in some of the older things if you are thinking about the consequence of it.
It's always great talking to you, Gotri.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Oh, it's my pleasure, David.
And I hope you're feeling better.
Yeah, a little bit, a little bit better.
Thank you so much.
And, you know, probably need one of those helmets and knee pads that you're talking about before too much longer.
Well, if we could ever get past this liquid, if we could get past this liquid nitrogen problem, you'll be the first on my list to get one.
Okay.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
Have a good day.
Thank you again for talking to us, Gotri.
Always great talking to you.
My pleasure.
Bye-bye.
The Common Man00:01:16
Bye-bye. The Common Man.
They created Common Core to dumb down our children.
They created Common Past to track and control us.
Their commons project to make sure the commoners own nothing and the communist future.
They see the common man as simple, unsophisticated, ordinary.
But each of us has worth and dignity created in the image of God.
That is what we have in common.
That is what they want to take away.
Their most powerful weapons are isolation, deception, intimidation.
They desire to know everything about us while they hide everything from us.
It's time to turn that around and expose what they want to hide.
Please share the information and links you'll find at thedavidnightshow.com.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you for sharing.
If you can't support us financially, please keep us in your prayers.