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March 4, 2025 - The David Knight Show
56:47
Catherine Austin Fitts on the DOGE Deception That Could Steal America
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Let's go to Katherine Austin Fitch.
She has a very interesting history.
She was Assistant Secretary for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.
She has had a lot of experience as an investment advisor at the Hamilton Securities Group and many others.
And she now has Solari, which is a great source of information.
About culture as well as finances.
Primarily finances, but I love the stuff that you have on culture as well at Solari.
She has Heroes of the Week.
She has Music of the Week and Art of the Week and all these other kinds of things because it really is about us reclaiming the culture and taking back our lives.
And money is an important part of that, but it's not the only part of that.
And so I really do like Solari.
They cover...
In-depth, different issues with publications on a regular basis if you're a member of Solari.
But it's always great to have you, Catherine.
Thank you for coming on.
Thank you, David.
I wanted to talk to you and reached out to you, and I know you've got a very busy schedule, and it was when all this Doge stuff happened.
And I know that you are skeptical of it, and I know that when you were at HUD, you saw a lot of stuff that was happening there, and you also blew the whistle on a lot of pension fund fraud and trillions of dollars that were missing in the federal government.
This is nothing that is new, but what do you think is going on with Doge?
What's your opinion of it?
No, I think DOGE is, the public goal is to cut current expenditures and rebalance basically the federal model.
And DOGE is certainly cutting some current expenditures.
I think one of the goals of DOGE, and I think it's multiple goals, is to cancel The old tools of empire and build the new tools of empire.
And I would say Doge is an operation.
Technically, they finally found somebody to admit to being the head of it.
That was funny, too, wasn't it?
That he says, well, you know, he's not an employee, he's not this or that.
I mean, they tried to disclaim that he was...
So who is the head of it if it's not Elon Musk?
Well, actually, Musk...
You know, and I would say all 30 of the Elon Musk characters.
Because I don't think Elon Musk is a person.
I think it's an operation.
And if you look at how many Elon Musks there are doing how many things.
It's like multiplicity.
Remember that movie with Keaton?
I just watched a video, which was clearly one of the newer actors who didn't quite have the shtick down yet.
And he was wearing sunglasses.
I guess the mask was slipping or something.
I don't know what the problem was.
But anyway, I think Doge, one of the goals of Doge is to lower current expenditures.
But also what they're trying to do is cancel the old tool.
You know, in the old model, in the unipolar model, you'd go into a country and you'd throw a lot of money around and put everybody on the payroll.
So in the United States, you put them all on the payroll of defense contractors and government contractors abroad.
You put them on all these NGO boards.
So if you're changing the model of how, you know, if you're going from a unipolar to a multipolar world, as Rubio has announced, You don't need all those tools.
And so, you know, instead you've got SpaceX satellites flying overhead and all sorts of surveillance, and you've got drones and other things.
So you have a different model of how you're going to implement your power, and that means you need to switch the money from the old to new.
The other thing that I think is going on is that there is an effort to build the control grid.
And part of building the control grid, one of the chief components of building the control grid, Is to put the fiscal side of the house under the control of the bankers.
And you do that by getting rid of the civil service.
So part of what you're seeing is the gutting of civil service so you can move in corporate contractors.
So remember Elon Musk, who's sort of the titular face of Doge.
He's not running Doge, but he's the face of Doge and he's sort of the PR on Doge.
You know, his companies have received, we now estimate, $38 billion of contracts or grants from the U.S. federal government.
Over what period of time?
Was this prior to this or since this?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, prior.
I remember when it was only like $4 or $5 billion about 10 years ago, and L.A. Times did a story about how he was the king of crony capitalism.
So we've talked about that, but now it's up to nearly 10 times that amount.
Right, and I don't object to somebody.
So, for example, I don't object to somebody doing rockets through a SpaceX in a private company.
You know, there's a way to use, for government to use private services, which is, as far as I'm concerned, could be perfectly legitimate.
The problem is, one of the things you're watching with Doge is you had many different agencies, 11 +, who were doing investigations or regulatory actions of different Musk.
And so all of those, you know, first the White House ethics officer was fired.
And if you, Musk is technically a government special employee.
And if you look at the laws that are being broken in terms, you know, governments, it is against the law for government special employee to be involved in decisions that affect them personally, their personal profit.
And if you look at all the decisions that it appears that Musk is being involved in, it's inconceivable to me that you're not violating those laws.
And that's a criminal violation, by the way.
But then you have 11-plus agencies doing, I think, almost 18 to 20 investigations of Musk's companies in a variety of forms or regulatory actions.
And in most of those agencies, the inspector generals have been fired.
One of the big ones, the SEC, they've done an executive order saying, you know, we're in control and you report to us.
You know, that's the president.
But that's the kind of action that will put the fear of God into anybody in any of those agencies from doing anything that would touch Musk or his companies.
But then the last thing, and probably the most outrageous, if you look at the data transfers that appear to be happening, Those are data transfers that, if they're going into AI, could make that AI phenomenally more valuable.
At the very same time that Musk is out, according to public reports, in the private market raising capital for XAI, which is a separate company, that's the AI, and then SpaceX.
And we also see the FAA now deciding they were expected to give a contract to another firm, but they're now switching it to SpaceX.
So if you look at the patterns of the data transfers, if you look at the patterns of the capital raising, if you look at the patterns of targeting agencies that have regulatory enforcement, I think 20 of the people who oversee the portion of the FTI that looks at medical equipment that would go in the head.
So that would be overseeing Neuralink, they've been fired.
So whether it's regulatory actions, investigations, things related to raising capital in the private markets, or government contracts, etc., etc., you've got every indication.
I mean, if there was a real serious person who was trying to enforce the law, You know, this would require a special prosecutor to look at all the potential violations.
Oh, yeah.
Well, you know, I've reported on the fact that he was under investigation.
Starlink was under investigation for what was going on in Ukraine.
And so we see this type of thing happening over and over again.
As you point out, 11 different agencies, and the first one to go was the Ethics Committee.
This is somebody who has always profited.
He's become the wealthiest man in history by doing what the governments want.
And even when you look at Tesla.
You know, he was there at the very forefront of pushing the electric cars and pushing self-driving cars, which is the first project that DARPA had that they opened up to competition.
And when you look at the crashes that they've had with the self-driving cars, they've had crashes at a rate that far exceed deaths, that far exceed what was happening with the exploding Pintos back in the 1980s.
1970s.
And so I imagine there's some investigations there that got shut down.
No, the transition team said that they were going to get the rule canceled that you had to publicize the number of crashes and whose car it was.
Yeah, that's right.
Cover it up.
Here's the thing.
I don't think you're looking at corruption.
I think you are looking at literally, because I don't think Musk...
Don't think of Musk as a person.
Think of it as an operation.
There's a Musk theater and a Musk operation, and I think what you're watching is the wholesale privatization of whole sections of the U.S. government at the same time that you're bringing in the control grid, and you're also trying to shift the line operation.
into corporate control so the bankers can control it out of the hands of Congress.
I agree.
You know, when you talked about the fact that being able to take all that massive amount of information that he has access to and turn it over to his AI. That has always been the issue.
Big compute, right?
And I think it was part of the motivation of why he wanted to get Twitter and turn it into X, because that gives him access to big data.
It's one of the complaints that they had about TikTok.
Besides the influence, they said, look, it's getting all this information on Americans.
They said that during the first Trump administration about 5G. They said, well, we don't want Huawei getting all this information about us because it's too easy to spy on people with 5G. Well, the U.S. government wants to be the one to spy.
Yeah, but let's look at how the money works at the big picture level.
So, in the last 10 years, what we've seen is China take the lead in science and technology away from the United States.
Yes, yes.
And this is a very...
You know, one person I heard the other day said, you know, we went to the big defense contractors and the big tech companies and said, okay, we'll give you a monopoly if you maintain our hegemony.
And so they got a monopoly and everybody got to be billionaires, but they didn't maintain the hegemony.
So this is a very dangerous situation because we've gone from leading, there's an Australian think tank that's started by the Australian government that tracks the top 64 technologies.
You know, in 2008, we were leading in 60 of 64. Now we're leading in 7, and China's leading in 57. Wow.
I mean, that's a huge shift.
That's number one.
Part of our strategy, the neocon strategy in Ukraine, was we were going to implode Russia again, and we were going to use Russia's resources to maintain our hegemony vis-a-vis China.
What happened was the strategy of hybrid warfare failed, and now we see Russia much stronger, and as a result having to depend on China, making China much stronger, making Iran stronger, making Turkey stronger, making North Korea stronger.
And so now that you can't plunder Russia, who can the American syndicate, who can the deep state plunder?
Well, they can plunder Europe and America, right?
Who was it?
Was it someone?
Was it you?
Someone was talking about, in a video I was watching, about when a bear goes out, if they can't find food, when they come home, a black bear, they eat their cubs.
You only have to run faster than the slowest person if the bear is chasing you as a group, right?
Well, but here's the thing.
Americans don't understand what is underway.
That's right.
It's interesting, before coming in, the administration, the various people in the administration used the term shock and awe a lot.
We're going to have so many executive orders lined up, so many actions lined up, it's going to be shock and awe.
And that's what they're doing.
They're doing shock and awe.
Yeah, I think that's incredibly dangerous to be ruled by executive order.
We criticized that when it was Biden, but now the same people who criticized Biden for ruling by executive order now have no problem with Trump doing it to a far greater extent.
They just want a czar, they want a king, and I think it's a very dangerous thing.
But getting back to what's coming next.
If you look at the polls, I don't think they want this.
I don't think there's as much support as you think.
Oh, I hope not.
I get a lot of pushback from people when I criticize Trump as acting as a king with executive orders.
No, no, no, no.
You can't imagine the pushback I've gotten for the last two years on this.
I bet.
I bet.
Well, you know, when you talk about what is coming, I've said that I agree with you, absolutely, that he's trying to dismantle this state for the next one that is coming.
Let's talk a little bit about that.
I said I think he's trying to minimize government, meaning the bureaucracy, so he can maximize governance through AI. And I said, you know, I'd much rather have an army of IRS agents than AI auditing everybody.
I do not see one indication that they are planning on Lessening government.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So the question is, does government serve the general population or does it serve the billionaires?
Yeah, that's right.
So I think they're changing who the government serves and how it serves.
And I think they're changing the tools.
But I think they need government more than ever.
I mean, if you're Elon Musk and your companies have gotten $38 billion, how are you going to get your next $38 billion?
You're not going to get that from the general population.
You're going to get it from government.
You know, they're switching money from the other syndicates to their syndicate.
Yeah.
But I don't see any...
Any indication, they look to lessen government's power.
Well, what I mean by that in terms of minimizing government, I mean minimizing the employees and starting to roll out this whole thing where AI is replacing jobs, especially white-collar jobs.
Rolling that out in the bureaucracy, that's kind of some low-hanging fruit.
And then having AI be the surveillance grid that is controlling us, that would really kind of maximize their governance, right?
There are 6 million people working for the federal government, 3 million in corporate contractors.
and NGOs and 3 million civil service.
They're simply looking to move as many functions as possible to the corporate contractors.
Okay?
And that means the central bankers can control and operate.
So let me explain how the U.S. government works today.
Okay?
So approximately a little bit less than a third, well, about a trillion dollars or a trillion-plus dollars every year has to be borrowed to keep the government going, right?
Bye.
Right.
The primary dealers, of which Howard Lutnick's firm is one of the biggest ones, sell debt into pension funds, retirement funds, wealth-solving funds all around the world.
And then that money goes in the New York Fed as depository for the U.S. government in the Treasury and other agency accounts.
And then the money gets spent.
If that money were to stop today, the whole operation would stop because the bank account wouldn't execute the transactions and the primary dealer network and the Fed wouldn't borrow the money, right?
Okay, so anything that's going on in the government is going on because that's what the New York Fed and its owners want, right?
Because they could stop it like that, right?
Okay, so they control.
Now, you have a bureaucracy of 2.9 million, you know, I always round off to 3 million people, and the problem with that bureaucracy is they will insist, by and large, on getting written instructions.
So they won't act unless they get written instructions, and those written instructions have to be in accordance with the laws and the budgets promulgated by Congress.
Okay.
Now, when I was Assistant Secretary of Housing, the only exception to that was the corporate contractors who would completely ignore what Congress said and would do according to some other mysterious set of instructions that they somehow magically got, right?
Which is, you know, we've come to call that the deep state.
But they basically implemented the deep state's wishes, and the problem with bureaucracy is they wanted written instructions, and you can't give written instructions for...
You know, the deep state, what the deep state wants, because it's not in accordance with the appropriations in the law.
I'm closely oversimplifying, but essentially, these guys don't want to cancel government, they just want to control government.
Right, right.
And they want plenty of government, because they can't get, I mean, if you look at any of Musk's operations, it can't get along without subsidies.
I agree.
But don't you think that part of his thing is massive?
We're talking about the big compute and his access to data there.
He wants to sell a lot of artificial intelligence.
And I've got to say, I'm really concerned about...
The efficiency of government, especially when it's doing things I don't like it doing, things that it doesn't have any authority to do, and I think it can make it a lot more dangerous.
And I thought this from the very beginning, when it focused on efficiency, that he was pushing towards a kind of technocracy approach with artificial intelligence and things like that.
How do you see that?
No, efficiency is just the word they use to sell it.
I mean, it's just a way of describing a coup, okay?
You can't say, David, I want to take all the data and steal it.
I just want to ignore the laws and take all the data and privatize it so I can rule you.
You can't say that, right?
That's not a marketing spin.
So you say, I'm making it more efficient because I'm firing the Democrats.
You know, I'm firing all these people who wasted your money on...
DEI and all this other stuff.
From what I can tell, they're firing a lot of great stuff that ought to be stopped and is a waste of money.
If it really does go through.
And of course, the jury is still out with a lot of the stuff that they've announced as to whether or not...
It'll actually be followed through, or the fights that they're going to have in the courts over things like that.
I agree.
I'm for cutting government down as much as possible.
With you, I don't think that they're really about making government smaller.
I think they're about just changing the structure for their own benefit.
Exactly.
So here's the thing to know, though.
If you really want to fire all these people...
You can do it as long as you follow procedures.
You know, for grants and contracts, there's always a way to end them or to just not renew them or whatever, but it's neurosurgery, okay?
You have to go in with a scalpel, and you have to pay attention bottom-up to what the terms and conditions of the legal contracts are.
But there is a way to cut a lot, a lot of stuff, and to cut it relatively quickly.
It just requires neurosurgery instead of chainsaws.
Yeah.
You do chainsaws because you want to scare and shock and awe.
That's right.
Yeah.
And that's what we got right now.
Right.
Neuralink chainsaw surgery.
Then you're going to get a complete mess in the courts because, you know, and here's the thing.
Let's say I want to cancel a million dollar contract.
You know, according to the terms and conditions, I can cancel that contract if I follow the procedures, the protocols.
So let's say I need to give 30 or 90 days notification or whatever the terms and conditions is.
If I instead just cancel it, shock and awe, they go to court, they win.
And instead of paying them a million dollars, now I've got to pay them a million dollars.
I've got to pay the attorneys over at the Department of Justice to keep them going.
I'm going to have to pay their lawyer fees.
Maybe there's fines.
And the next thing you know, I'm out $2 million.
So you didn't save any money.
You just made a mess.
And I've been suspicious from the very beginning that there would be a follow-through on it because of what Trump did with DARPA, for example.
Not DARPA, DACA. When he comes in, he says he's going to do that, regardless of what...
Anybody thinks about the policy.
He had the authority to counterman an executive order from the Obama administration.
And so he says, well, I'm going to cancel this.
And they said, well, you can't do that.
You've got to ask the courts.
He takes it to the Supreme Court.
And they say, no, you can't cancel them.
It's like, what is this about?
And so I've looked at this and thought, you know, well, they can always come in, like you're pointing out, with a chainsaw and do a chainsaw massacre and then say that the courts shut us down and I've got to abide by it.
Because he already did that in the first term.
You already said, I can't cancel an executive order from Obama.
So we don't really know what's going to happen with this stuff.
Right now, it is a lot of shock and awe.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, let's talk a little bit about the Bitcoin reserve thing, the summit that is coming up on Friday.
I'd like to get your take on all of this Bitcoin reserve and just on Bitcoin and crypto in general.
I think everybody was truly amazed to see that rather than it being a Bitcoin reserve, he throws it out with three cryptocurrencies that most people were not aware of.
Well, because if you're trying to build the control grid, you want a payment system crypto.
Yeah.
So XRP is in the lead, but then you have also two Swiss ones.
And the first three he throws out are designed to promote the payment system.
So if you look at the article we published about two weeks ago about Trump administration building the control grid, so I said one of the chief components of the control grid is replace the civil service with corporate contractors so that the central banks can control fiscal policy.
But one of them is we want a digital ID and we want an all-digital monetary system, which means you need a real payment system.
So Bitcoin is basically a Ponzi scheme.
That won't do.
And so what you need to do is pick out some of the some of the crypto that you want to be significant payment systems.
XRP already is, you know, for the banks on a wholesale basis.
Now, it's interesting.
After there were complaints, we get another tweet saying, OK, we're going to add Ethereum and Bitcoin.
Now, we've published a big piece that's up at Solari called Bitcoin Bailout.
And I can't think of a more corrupt action by state or federal government in this day and age than buying Bitcoin.
I just, it is literally, I mean, I would rather see a strategic national reserve in Jell-O and...
Silly putty.
No, no.
At least you can do something with those, right?
Well, there is a reason for petroleum strategic reserves.
That is a real asset that we need and we use.
There is a reason to have gold.
We all know what it is.
There is a reason to have various food stockpiles, okay?
There is no reason to stockpile a speculative asset that's essentially a Ponzi scheme, which is what Bitcoin is.
And the notion that you are cutting radical cuts because you need to get current expenditures down, because you need to pay down your debt, you can't take on more debt, but you're going to go out and put money in speculative assets?
And if you look at the polls, most Americans do not favor putting their money in speculative assets like Bitcoin.
They don't.
They just don't.
And the notion that you're going to tax people, And use their money to invest in a speculation?
You know, David, if you've done anything with government money, it's the most outrageous thing I've ever seen.
Now, when you look at Bitcoin, a very small percentage of the holders own a great deal of Bitcoin.
And their problem is it's not a liquid market.
It's a thin market.
And they can't get out without trashing the price.
So there's no way they can exit at the current price.
So they want to get out on a high.
The only way they can do that is by bringing in a flood of new investors.
Well, there's nobody at retail who's going to hold the price up.
The only way you can do it is if you can get government to mandate purchases.
And then you can hold the price up and you can run the price up and you can hold up long enough so you get out.
Now, my concern is the way they want to get out is to swap it for land.
Yes, I agree.
The federal government owns a tremendous amount of land and mineral resources.
We see Howard Lutnick in the transition talking about the U.S. balance sheet has $500 trillion of land and mineral resources.
I agree with him.
I don't know about that number.
I'll point out, in the first Trump administration, Trump authorized a GIS. U.S. Geological Survey survey of all the mineral resources in the country.
So, you know, there is a real effort to identify all the assets.
And frankly, if you can run up Bitcoin with government purchases and then swap for the land, you can do a land grab that is a steal.
Oh, I agree.
And it's, you know, Lutnik said it, and Besant said it.
Besant said, we've got a lot of resources, meaning the natural resources, and we're going to put them to work.
You know, and you also had Doug Burgum say that, who is, you know, Secretary of the Interior.
And he talked to us specifically about that.
I absolutely agree.
And I think that was the next thing I wanted to ask you about.
But before we move on from this, again, I think it's very interesting.
Can I just point at one thing?
A Ponzi scheme only works if you get a new flood of investors.
The problem with being the last investor in a Ponzi scheme is you're left holding the bag, right?
That's right.
So if you're a government and you use your purchases to run the price way up, there's no one else to come in and take you out.
And if you swap for your land at that high price, then you've given up a precious resource and gotten nothing because now you're headed to zero.
I agree.
It's a scam.
And of course, all of the Bitcoin people and everything were saying, you know, well, this is where we want to go.
We know that governments are going to adopt this.
I mean, they've been kind of angling towards this Ponzi scheme from the very beginning.
If we can get the government to come in, they can be the greater fool.
And we can give the bag to them.
Right.
So you mentioned Roger Ver.
And in 2017, I did a very serious due diligence as an investment advisor at Bitcoin.
And that's when I... Came away with the conclusion, okay, it's a Ponzi scheme.
But I didn't begin to have the knowledge that Roger did.
And when he published Hijacking Bitcoin, that was what gave me really the ability to publish Bitcoin bailout.
Because I had...
You know, basically an insider's story of how Bitcoin had gotten hijacked.
And to understand Bitcoin, you really need to understand how what was initially a very ingenious design got hijacked and changed from a payment system into a pump and dump, you know, tool.
And we did a great interview with Steve Patterson.
If you don't know Steve Patterson, he's Roger's co-author and an absolutely brilliant, very, you know, very good.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
It wasn't until Roger published that book that I think a lot of people could turn around and say, stop already.
This is a Ponzi scheme.
Stop it.
and it's funny we have videos in our commentary on bitcoin bailout of peter teal basically saying as much saying you know i didn't put a lot of money in because it can only work if you can get more people in and there's nobody left to come in you know so he wasn't the government yeah well he wasn't he wasn't thinking okay we're going to give you know we're going to give hundreds of billions of dollars in donations during the 2024 campaign and then we're you know going to get a lot of politicians to basically get taxpayers money
i mean my attitude is if you can afford to buy bitcoin then you can afford to cut taxes.
If you as a private citizen want to buy Bitcoin, great.
But cut taxes, give people their money back, and let them go speculate or invest in whatever way they want.
I agree.
When he's talking about a Bitcoin reserve, again, that's the angle that you're talking about, which is also dangerous.
You know, the pump and dump and grab the land and that type of thing.
But I thought it was interesting that...
Then he focused on these other three.
It was XRP, which is attached to the company Ripple, ADA, and SOL. And all three of them are really kind of transaction processing things.
That's where they are.
And so, to me, I look at this, and it sounds like you agree with us as well, that they're moving us towards a kind of a private version of central bank digital currency, maybe as an intermediary step or something like that.
It seems to me like that's what they would be getting these three for, while they also run the pump and dump with Bitcoin.
What do you think?
So let's look at the different component parts of the control grid.
And this is what we wrote about.
I have a commentary called the Trump administration builds the control grid.
The first thing you need is a digital ID. And we've talked about all the push for a digital ID. And part of using election fraud and immigration is an excuse to get the digital ID system in.
Okay, so that's number one.
The second thing you need to do is you need to move control of fiscal policy to the central banks.
You're doing that now through Doge.
That's ongoing.
You need, essentially, a social credit system.
By moving all the government data into AI and whatever they're doing, that starts to give you the basis of a private social credit system that you can use when you marry it with an all-digital monetary system.
To get to the all-digital monetary system, you either need a CBDC or the equivalent in private crypto.
All digital monetary system is much more dangerous than a CBDC. And I'll tell you why.
In the United States, the Federal Reserve, which has been trying to get out from under for years, has never been able to get out from under the fact that they are a creature of Congress and they are subject to disclosure and reporting to Congress.
If you can begin, if you can get this going...
With a private crypto and a private social credit system, then you can do the control grid with no legal responsibilities whatsoever to the general population, and you're much more protected from constitutional powers that would be in place if it was being done by the central bank.
I agree.
So this is much more dangerous.
I agree.
And, you know, the people who would support Trump, some conservatives or whatever, but the MAGA people, a lot of them have never really paid attention to politics.
But they trust Trump.
They trust corporations.
So it's easier to pull the wool over their eyes if you come at them from a public-private partnership.
And they don't see that coming.
And you can bring in the same functions.
Everybody understands now, I think, what CBDC is.
You've got some states that are saying, we're not going to have CBDC. But you can maintain these same functions, call it something else, run it through some private companies, and have the functional equivalence of that where you've destroyed what you always refer to as financial privacy in your transactions.
So I want to bring up the topic of neurological weaponry.
Because if you look, you know, I'm in Europe right now.
And one of the reasons I sometimes enjoy coming back to Europe is the mind control is a lot less invasive here.
It's what it feels like to me.
But, you know, we are dealing in the United States through all the digital mechanisms, through the phones, through the digital flat-screen TV, through the Internet.
We are dealing with huge amounts of what I call entrainment technology and subliminal programming.
And a lot of politics is driven by, essentially, propaganda, disinformation, and brainwashing.
But we're talking about neurological weaponry.
And if you look at what they're proposing to do with the Stargate function, you know, we're all talking now about the Internet of Bodies and how we've got chips in our bodies from the food, from the spray, from the injections that they're using to hook us up and interact with us.
Including influencing what we're thinking.
So what I'm watching is, you know, for all the reasons we've talked about in terms of the food and the injections, a real slipping in the IQs in the general population in America and a real slip in cognition and a tremendous amount of brainwashing.
Yes.
So I just think you cannot underestimate the role of brainwashing in this thing.
Oh, yeah.
And the pervasive control of the media, as we see through the pharmaceutical companies.
What do you think of RFK Jr. and his embrace of MMR that he's just done here?
I look at it and I hear him say, as well as Tulsi Gabbard, their position there is to restore trust in the institutions.
And I'm afraid that that is exactly right.
I think that they're trying to get people to...
Trust pharmaceutical companies and rebuild the trust that was lost during this COVID thing.
What is your take on that?
So, we had a meeting of the cabinet.
It was the first cabinet meeting, and there was a video of Musk addressing the cabinet.
And RFK, his whole body language suggested...
Trump extreme discomfort with Musk's behavior because Musk was clearly signaling, I'm in charge, not the president.
And if you look at Trump's body language, he was signaling the same.
It was a very uncomfortable thing to watch.
And ever since then, somebody's been putting the squeeze to RFK.
They put the squeeze to him on measles, tried to trap him.
Then they put him on the squeeze on MMR, and now they put him in a squeeze with an anti-Semitism tweet.
And it looks to me like they're just trying to squeeze him out.
And I don't know whether it's the Doge operation, I don't know whether it's the pharmaceutical industry.
I don't know.
Somebody's trying to squeeze him out.
And he's being put through sort of the ritual humiliations.
And his strategy, and I'm just taking it from what he said publicly, is to get into HHS and get the data and get it out.
And that's going to take time.
So what he's got to do is he's got to stay in there long enough to get the data and get it out.
And my guess is, from looking at what he's doing up to right now, he's just going to do whatever he has to do to stay in there, get the data and get it out, and try to make a real difference.
But in the meantime, he's going to look, you know, This looks terrible.
It looks ridiculous.
How much of what he's put out is being written for him and he's being told this is what you're going to do?
I don't know what the gun to his head is.
Yeah.
But there's a gun to his head.
Well, sometimes we hold the gun to our heads because we think that if we, you know, we've got some mission down the road that we can accomplish and maybe I'm going to have to do a little bit of betrayal, maybe a little bit of lying or whatever in order to achieve that.
But it just makes it easier to...
To go off mission.
You know, I just, I feel like, I know that's the way a lot of people view their, you know, their strategy.
You know, you call it 4D chess or whatever, but I just, I don't think we ever get there by compromising our principles.
I know that politics is the art of compromise, but that's one of the reasons why politics looks the way it is.
So here's the way I say it.
There's an inside game and there's an outside game.
When Trump won, I started to, I can't tell you how many phone calls I got asking me if I would go back in.
And every time I said, not a chance.
I will never go back in.
Period.
End of discussion.
You know, I'm all in for an outside game.
I have a boss.
They're called the Salary Report subscribers.
I love my boss.
It's the best job I've ever had.
I'm not leaving.
So I have no intention of playing an inside game.
You know, I'm playing an outside game and that's it.
Now, Kennedy decided he wanted to play an inside game.
Why, I can't tell you, but he did.
And he really thinks he can make a difference.
So, now that he's gotten in, I hope he stays in long enough to see what he can do in terms of getting the data out and moving the machinery.
I don't know how much he can do.
But if you've started in, you've got to see it through if you can.
Yeah, of course, he was in the outside game with Children's Health Defense, and he had exposed a lot of information.
And, you know, you can expose a lot of, just like you did with Solari, you can get a lot of information from the outside.
And we can also, you know, sanity check, you know, and consistency check what they're telling us to show that it is a lie.
You know, we knew all the stuff that was eventually in the Twitter files.
We knew that long before we knew that that was being done by the government.
I mean, it was pretty obvious it was done.
We didn't need to have the receipts.
I've had an up-close view of what's been done to Kennedy, because I did one speaking tour in Europe with him, and I watched the attacks, and I was there to listen and hear and see, and I got a real inside view.
And you can't imagine the brutality of the attacks he's dealt with for years and years and years.
And if you look at the brutality of the attacks he's dealt with for the last two weeks, they're extraordinary.
And if you look at the brutality of the tax he's having to take from many of his traditional allies because they, of course, feel betrayed, right?
So, you know, he's in the thick of it.
And what's incredible to me that, I mean, I've known it intellectually, but it wasn't until I saw his confirmation hearings.
If you look at the depth of the brainwashing, it is so frightening, especially on vaccines.
You had, I watched, 13 or 14 senators, U.S. senators, who refused to face the fact that we have an extinction-level event in childhood disease in this country.
It is an extinction-level event, and they refused to face it.
They refused to take responsibility for it.
They refused to put something better on the table than what Kennedy was proposing to do.
And they just smeared him in the most, you know, ridiculous way.
I agree.
The one thing we have to talk, so if you look at what's being done to him and what he's doing right now.
Let me ask you this with the senators.
Do you think it was brainwashing or was it greenwashing?
I mean, did the pharmaceutical companies convince these guys or pay them off?
What do you think?
Here's what I think.
I think we are poisoning.
And killing our own children.
Yes, I agree.
And I think there are many different reasons why people won't face that.
But they literally cannot face that.
I mean, I think if you're a senator, it's either at a conscious or subconscious level.
If it's a conscious level, you know you and your family will never be safe again if people understand what you've really been doing.
You've been committing mass atrocity.
That's right.
On scale.
Not just in the United States, but globally.
Do you really want to face that?
Do you want all your neighbors to know?
Do you want all your family to know?
And that you knew it?
And of course, it escalated with the COVID stuff.
The whole scam on steroids.
And they don't want people to know what it is.
And so you've got everybody now, left and right, pushing this idea of a lab leak because that says, well, we did the best we could, but it was a real thing instead of a fraud.
And by the way, there's going to be another one.
So we still have to have all this biosecurity apparatus there.
We've got to have all the MRAs ready to roll out and everything.
I mean, the lab leak.
It probably just helps to propagate this, but it does provide them with an alibi, I think.
What do you think about that?
Here's the thing.
I think they're all scared.
They should be.
So, you know, after the litigation with the Department of Justice was over, so I was in litigation for 11 years with the Department of Justice.
After it was over, I published a book to help people understand what had happened.
And every time I tried to turn that book into a hard copy, I ran into massive amounts of trouble.
The third time I tried it, which was four years after the litigation ended, I was basically, it was a very sophisticated operation, but it was basically communicated to me that if I went ahead and published it, they would murder, they would kill somebody in my family.
And at which point I stopped.
And I said, you know, I didn't, you know, my family should not be responsible for my...
Efforts to, you know, bring transparency to what's going on in Washington, right?
So I just stopped.
And you don't know until you're in that position.
I mean, I was poisoned eight times.
I had 18 autism investigations.
I had $6 million of litigation.
I worked for 36,000 hours for free to deal with it all.
You know, on and on and on.
If you haven't been in that spot, you don't understand how scary it is.
Because if you're a senator, they will kill you and they will kill your kids.
Oh, yeah.
And they would kill your grandkids.
These are people who did mass murder around the world.
Of course they would, yeah.
Right.
So whether it's because, I mean, how many people on that committee and how many people in this current administration have major files in the Epstein operation?
The only guy who doesn't look scared about the whole thing is Howard Ludnik because he had the house next door.
Right?
That's right.
And he was real lucky on 9-11 as well.
He got the advanced one.
I'm assuming he got downloads of the Epstein tapes over in his house.
I don't know.
Could be.
So, I mean, now we're into this kabuki theater over the Epstein files.
And there's no...
I mean, between the administration and Congress, how many people do you think can...
We stand real transparency around the Epstein files.
That's right.
It's been going on for a long time.
I remember, you know, both, I've talked about it multiple times on the show, how both Truman and Nixon were talking about J. Edgar Hoover's massive blackmail operations, how he had files on everybody.
A similar type of thing.
Government has always run that way.
Right, but digital technology has made it far more sophisticated.
I remember when I was in Washington, the cabinet secretary I was working for was compromised in the Franklin cover-up, and when the Washington Times started running stories about the Franklin cover-up prostitute networks at the hospital, he just went crazy and was being blackmailed, and I was in the middle of it because he was trying to order me to do illegal things, and I wouldn't do it.
So, you know, but I saw, I've never seen a human being more terrified of, more afraid.
I mean, he was just terrified.
Because here he is, you know, a big family man and a Christian, and somebody's blackmailing him presumably over pedophilia, and he's scared to death.
Well, just like a Dennis Hastert.
You know, and this is a guy who was a wrestling coach.
I presume that they knew that there was pedophilia there because he was later blackmailed by one of his students.
But, you know, they get him into Congress and then they put him in as Speaker of the House for the longest term.
Now, if they wanted to do anything about this pedophile stuff, it'd be the first thing that they would do if they wanted to stop it or reform it, I think, would be to get rid of the statute of limitations.
But they won't do any of that stuff because I think that it is something that touches...
So many of them, so broadly.
Let me mention one thing, because Epstein was not a sex network.
I mean, yes, there was sex going on to build control files.
Epstein's operation supported a massive money laundering.
And if you look at when we raped Russia in the beginning of the 90s when the Soviet Union fell, those laundry lines went...
You had a couple of key spots.
The Ukraine, tremendous amounts coming out through the Ukraine.
Remember, and we were teamed up with the Russian Mafia.
There's a wonderful book called Red Mafia by Robert Friedman about the Russian Mafia.
And the important thing to understand about the Russian Mafia is they're 99% Jewish.
So you have enormous rat lines through the Ukraine, into Israel, into New York, and London.
So, London, New York, Israel, Ukraine.
So, we're talking, when we talk about the Ukraine, you know, you can think of it as a war, I think of it as a huge financial money laundering operation.
Oh, yeah.
And we see that with the Biden family as well, you know.
Right.
That exploded in the public eye, that part of it.
Right.
But the Epstein operation is right in the middle of that.
In other words, Zelensky at the White House and the Epstein files, you know, everybody thinks they're two different stories.
To me, they're one story.
That's good, yeah.
That's right, they're one story.
That's an interesting way to look at it, yeah.
Right, and when Trump says to Zelensky, you don't hold the cards.
Zelensky's thinking, no, my name is on the bank accounts, and I still got pots of money, and I got all the intel about where the money came in and where it went out.
So he does hold cards, is what it looks like to me.
Yeah, yeah.
And as I said, he also is going back to Europe and asking them to unfreeze the Russian $250 billion or whatever, put it in the microwave or something so he can have access to that.
What do you think is going to happen with Europe?
I mean, they're doing all this blustering talk about how they're going to go it alone.
I don't see any of that happening.
Here's the problem.
If you look at this not as a war, but as a huge financial fraud operation, You know, starting, you know, go all the way back to when we laundered the money out of Russia.
Because remember, that was the goal of the Neocon strategy, to do it again.
And it failed.
And you know the way we do wars in the West, is you borrow money, you use it to do a war, and then with the booty that you win, you pay back the debt and take your profit, right?
That's how you finance wars, okay?
With the bond market.
Okay, so they did it again.
So we decided, okay, we finance, so a lot of loans, a lot of borrowing to finance the war, except now there's no booty because Russia didn't implode again, right?
So now everybody's sitting, and remember, whatever money I've gotten already, I don't want to give it back.
I've spent it, I've invested it, whatever.
But now the story that I told about how this is going to work, the public story is no good.
The truth is no good.
I can't tell everybody what the truth is because, you know, the fact that you're laundering weapons and money all around the world, you can't tell that.
So how are you going to come up with a new story?
Right?
That's right.
And how are you going to keep it from imploding in a way that could destroy you and your family?
I mean, I just think they're trying to figure out how to come up with a story and a way forward.
And here's the problem.
It's back to the black bear.
You know, coming home and cannibalizing his club, his Cubs.
Now, who can Europe, where can they get booty?
Well, they're going to have to get it from their own population.
So now you're talking, if they want to warn the Ukrainians, it's because they need a way of managing their own populations.
Yeah, that's right.
You've got to do, you know, Germany's talking about doing a draft.
And they are in such a situation as they've been taking their populations down with the green agenda.
They've been de-industrializing and impoverishing people, bringing in other groups en masse.
And so people are pretty upset with them.
And I think they need a war as a distraction to save themselves.
I agree.
Okay, so if the Trump administration is pushing to do a control grid, it's a control grid to control the people of the United States.
Or if they do it with Europe, it's to control the people of the Western world.
It's not to control Russia.
It's not to control China.
That's right.
Now, here's the thing.
If you're the Trump administration and you want to get back in the game, you're going to immediately say, wait a minute, you know, there's 64 important technologies.
We've lost the lead.
On 53 of them, we're going to get the lead back.
So let's have a big meeting.
Let's create a technology czar and have a meeting at the White House to figure out how we get the lead back on all 64. They're not doing that.
They're saying, you know, let's have a meeting on speculative assets.
Yeah, that's right.
That's not how a great country returns to power.
That's right.
And when you look at the hegemony, you said, yeah, hey, keep us in the lead, and we'll pay you the money.
This has gotten to the point where, just like any other welfare program, people get weak and dependent, and so they've fallen behind.
When we saw this deep-seek stuff, you've now got open AI running to government.
Part of their game was to tell everybody, look, we're so advanced, we're going to create the next self-aware, artificial general technology.
Well, it's very interesting because Xi Jinping held its first meeting in many years with his business leadership.
So you can see the competition is causing...
Yeah.
More integration between business and government on both sides of the aisle, so to speak.
Yeah.
Anyway, but I think here's the question for all of us is what do we do?
Mm-hmm.
And what we have to do is we have to get really, really smart about in this environment how we, you know, because we have to get good at the new tools.
Who was it?
Somebody said the other day.
You're not going to be replaced by AI. You're going to be replaced by a guy who's using AI well, right?
So we have to understand how to use the tools, but we have to do it in a way that builds resilience, and we have to do it in a way that creates community.
So when I'm in the States, I live in Tennessee, you've moved to Tennessee, there's a reason we're in Tennessee, right?
That's right.
And that's because you have a much more grounded culture.
You have a much more Christian culture, and you have a very hard-working ethic.
And you have lots of fabulous farmland and water.
So this is not something that we can do by ourselves.
It's something we need to do in community.
One of the reasons, if you come to Salary, we have a wonderful book called What the States Can Do.
And it's a real agenda for states or for citizen lobbyists to work with their states to protect financial freedom.
I would just note there's a wonderful story of this citizen lobbyist in Idaho, went to a senator, was very upset by what Trump was doing with the mRNA vaccines.
He never, you know, was a complete citizen and just started working with the senator.
And they've got a bill to outlaw mRNA vaccination in Idaho that's come out of committee and it's going into the full House now.
Let me ask you about that, because we had some state legislators who said, we're not going to do mRNA in the food, but now they're talking about vaccinating all the farm animals.
Somebody asked me earlier, and maybe you know, is that outlawed in Tennessee, or is that something we still need to pursue?
So last year, one of the people we work with tried to run a bill that if you were selling interstate, only within the state borders, And you had a herd of 30 or less.
You didn't have to vaccinate your animals in the event of a pandemic.
And they couldn't get it through.
Farm Bureau stopped it.
Farm Bureau in Tennessee has stopped a lot of great things.
You know, everybody, tell your Farm Bureau guys to get with the program.
But there's been a real...
Anyway, so we need to do that in Tennessee.
We need to stop mRNA technology.
In our food system.
Yes.
And we need to do that in Tennessee.
I agree.
And I agree with what you're saying.
You know, we have to work locally.
And it is so much, it's not easy to get it done.
But it is a lot easier than to try to get it done in Washington.
And, you know, you're closer to the issue and your community.
So I think the solutions really lie with us.
As you pointed out, the grounded people here in Tennessee, the fact that it's a more Christian environment.
All of this stuff, all the politics is downstream from that, isn't it?
Right, right.
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Catherine Austin Fitz, I'm sorry, you had one more thing?
Go ahead.
No, I just wanted to say, as what the Trump administration is doing and what Doge is doing, as the real implications roll out, I think you're going to have, particularly in a place like Tennessee, you're going to have a lot more people starting to understand, oh...
This is not what we thought.
They're not cutting waste.
I hope they do.
Well, that's our job.
That's what we work for, to try to make that happen.
And again, thank you so much for joining us, Catherine Austin-Fitz.
And you can find the excellent work that she does at Solari.com.
Thank you so much.
Hello, it's me, Volodymyr Zelensky.
I'm so tired of wearing these same t-shirts everywhere for years.
You'd think with all the billions I've skimmed off America, I could dress better.
And I could, if only David Knight would send me one of his beautiful grey MacGuffin hoodies or a new black t-shirt with the MacGuffin logo in blue.
But he told me to get lost.
Maybe one of you American suckers can buy me some at thedavidknightshow.com.
And David is giving a 10% discount to listeners from now until 2025. At that price, you should be able to buy me several hundred.
Those amazing sand-colored microphone hoodies are so beautiful.
I'd wear something other than green military cosplay to my various galas and social events.
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