Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

July 29, 2024 - The David Knight Show

03:06:58

The David Knight Show - 07/29/2024 - Best of Interviews

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	you
	using free speech to free minds minds.
	you You're listening to The David Knight Show.
	Welcome to The David Knight Show.
	you Welcome back, and the book is School World Order.
	Let me get this where I'm not getting some glare on it.
	School World Order. The author is John Kleisik, and I want to thank Jason Barker for telling me about this and actually buying this book and sending it to me.
	So thank you, Jason. I appreciate it.
	Let me tell you just a little bit about John, and then we'll let him tell you about his book.
	He has an MA in English and has taught college rhetoric and research argumentation for over a decade.
	His literary scholarship concentrates on the history of global eugenics and Aldous Huxley's dystopic novel Brave New World.
	He's the author of this book here, School World Order, The Technocratic Globalization of Corporatized Education.
	He's a contributor to Unlimited Hangout, New Politics, the Center for Research on Globalization, Activist Post, and many other publications.
	He also holds a black belt in classical taekwondo, certified kickboxing instructor, Under the Muay Thai Boxing Association.
	So be nice to him because...
	And pronounce his name correctly.
	I think I do have your name correctly.
	John Kysak.
	Is that correct? Kysak.
	You got it. Kysak. Okay. Kysak.
	Thank you for joining us.
	Let's talk a little bit about this because there's a very long list of adjectives there.
	Technocratic, globalization, corporatized education.
	But those are all very significant.
	And so tell us how you see this folding out.
	I see your work, by the way. Let me just say this.
	And you actively acknowledge this.
	It's really kind of an extension of what Charlotte Disserby began talking about, but you're bringing it up to date and fleshing it out with the current situation as well as a lot of the organizations that are behind this.
	But it really is a global thing.
	It really is part of the global technocracy as well, isn't it?
	Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it definitely is an extension of Charlotte's work.
	One of the most significant things that she did was leak something called Project Best.
	That was basic education skills through technology.
	And effectively, it was a plan to corporatize the education system through public-private partnerships with big technology corporations that would implement Skinnerian operating conditioning to condition students for workforce training.
	And I have recently, in the last couple of years, I guess it was, after the book anyways, recently after the book, wrote a piece on a package of files that she gave me on something called UNESCO Study 11, which was actually sort of the international version of Project BEST.
	Or another way to say that is that Project BEST was sort of our domestic version of this UNESCO project.
	And so that sort of gives you an overview of sort of the technocratic, the globalist, the corporate angles.
	So the book basically goes through the evolution of the privatization of big government schooling, and then sort of looks at how that is going to be facilitated through these EdTech partnerships.
	And then I sort of go through a series of different technologies that are being implemented, and those are adaptive learning courseware, socio-emotional biofeedback wearables, And then eventually brain-computer interfaces that will hook up to social credit algorithms.
	There's a lot of stuff there.
	But, you know, basically you talk about school world order, and if we understand what the new world order is, I would say, and we'll see if you agree with this, this really, when we're talking about global governance, it is a fascist merger of government and these multinational corporations, the technocracy. It's a key part of it.
	And so what you do in terms of talking about school world order, you show how this is being used as a seminal way to establish that new world order.
	Getting the kids at an early age, the public-private partnerships that you're talking about, that is a real concern.
	Every time we see that, you know, you understand what is happening with that, of course.
	And, you know, whether we're looking at the green agenda or whether we're looking at the pharmaceutical agenda, there's always these public-private partnerships.
	It's always a merger of governments and corporations for global governance, and that's what is really happening with the way these schools are being redesigned, these educational programs.
	Talk to us a little bit about what was going on with Betsy DeVos, because you talk a great deal about Trump's education secretary, the corporation that she had before she became education secretary, her vision of that and how she's moving along this public-private partnership and their vision of what they want to do with kids, basically. Yeah, so there's three significant things to point out as far as DeVos' corporatization agenda.
	And so one would be your connection to a company called K-12 Inc., which was the first virtual charter school that was ever established.
	It's one of the largest, it might be the largest in the United States at this point.
	It was actually created by Secretary of Education Bill Bennett, who took the torch from T.H. Bell.
	T.H. Bell was the guy that set up Project Beck.
	So he basically carried on the tenets of Project Best and eventually developed this virtual charter school out of that agenda.
	Betsy DeVos was involved in the funding of K-12, Inc.
	early on. She was also heavily involved in something called Alex. So that's the American Legislative Exchange Council. And what they do is basically create boilerplate legislative templates to hand out to various state and federal representatives. And then they take that draft and they make their own bills based on it. And so one of the things that came out of Alec was something called the Virtual Public Schools Act. And that DeVos was on.
	She also helped fund Alec with some of her charter school nonprofits. So one is like the American Federation for Children. And then the third thing that's significant to note about DeVos was that she was invested. I think she was on the board of trustees or the board of directors of a company called NeuroCore.
	NeuroCore traffics in EEG wearables.
	So these are some of the biofeedback wearables.
	It's basically a halo or a headband that the kids can wear, and it data minds their EEGs while they're doing work, and then it takes various algorithms and sort of tracks their personalized learning based on those headbands.
	That's one of the things in your book that I thought was very interesting, and I'd not thought about this before, and that is how important it is for them to get all kinds of information about kids.
	The data mining is so important, and we see this happening now as we move into artificial intelligence.
	Everybody is manic about sweeping up as much information as they can everywhere.
	And so that's especially true of our kids.
	You know, they have, to train their artificial intelligence, they need massive amounts of data.
	The more data they can get, the better their AI is going to be.
	And so they're trying to grab this stuff from our kids, and it's not just looking at their test score results or their essays and anything, but your point is actually looking at their EEGs or whatever, looking at the brain waves that they've got.
	It's absolutely amazing how manic they are about following all this, and very sinister, I would say, as well.
	Yeah, it basically, you know, the way I looked at it was that, you know, they tout this stuff as it's going to personalize learning for the children.
	But actually, whatever the children might be learning from these technologies, the AI is learning more and it's learning faster.
	Yeah. Which leads me to conclude that the basic premise or the actual, the primary goal is the data mining to develop the AI. It's not the use of the technology to develop the children.
	And, you know, interestingly enough, so the biofeedback wearables and the adaptive learning course where the biofeedback wearables are basically data mining students' emotional or feeling algorithms, the adaptive learning course where It's data mining what they call their cognitive behavioral, basically their thinking algorithms, and it's all based on operant conditioning stimulus response loops, which you can basically just convert from stimulus response to input-output, and you take that feedback loop, and that's basically what feeds the artificial intelligence.
	So for people who don't know about what I mean by stimulus response, it's basically the basis of all behavioral psychology.
	It was started by Wilhelm Wundt.
	He came up with the first laboratory psychology department In Leipzig, Germany.
	And basically, his theory was that all of human consciousness, all of learning is actually just neurological reflexes to environmental stimuli.
	So, you know, the classic example would be like Pavlov's dog.
	And so, you know, you can associate natural responses to natural stimuli.
	You can condition...
	Artificial responses to artificial stimuli by putting the two together, right?
	So associating the food and the dog, right?
	The food is the natural stimuli.
	The dog salivates. If you associate the artificial stimuli being the bell, you can associate that with the salivation.
	You can condition the dog to salivate.
	So basically, you move down the line over several decades.
	You get to people like E.L. Thorndike and eventually B.F. Skinner.
	Basically, he takes this idea of stimulus response, adds a series of rewards and punishments, and puts them in four quadrants, positive and negative, and then converts those stimuli to what they call learning stimuli.
	He had these analog teaching machines, and he basically...
	The learning stimuli would be the...
	Questioning multiple choice, matching, something like that.
	The response is how the student performs on that.
	So the analog machines would have a little wheel around the old ViewMasters.
	So it'd be like an analog box.
	You'd have like a disk.
	With the different learning stimuli, different question, answer, short answer, etc.
	And then there would be two slots.
	One where you read that and one where you describe the answer.
	And as you went forward, it would give you an automated feedback.
	And then eventually they would also program some of these to distribute chocolate, to have the reinforcement mechanism.
	So you just take that concept and you digitize it and replace the gears and wheels in the paper and pencil with clicks on a mouse and clicks on a keyboard.
	Maybe you gamify it, make it some video games in there, some other multimedia to make it more interactive.
	But the idea is basically the same, that what they're data mining is the feedback loop between how the student responds to whatever prompts they have in the curriculum.
	And I think one of the things about it, you know, B.F. Skinner, his book, Beyond Freedom and Dignity, when I saw that, and again, that's always been a big part of educational curriculum.
	Karen had that as she was getting her master's degree in education.
	It's like, what is that? And I started reading, and it's like, this is horrific, because his idea is that we are all simply animals, and he can manipulate us very quickly.
	And his training mechanism has been very effective for training animals, you know, pigeons or dolphins or whatever, dogs, cats.
	His operant conditioning, you associate the clicker training, if you've ever seen that.
	That is very effective, but they treat us like animals.
	And he says, there's nothing special about you.
	It's antithetical to everything that we believe religiously, everything that our society is based on, the Bill of Rights and all the rest of this stuff.
	We don't have intrinsic rights.
	We're no different from the animals, and they treat us as animals.
	And that's a very telling thing.
	That's become so central to their point of view.
	That's how they see us.
	And then also the fact that they feel entitled then to manipulate us for their purposes.
	And that's what we're seeing with these corporations and these people.
	You pull in all the different relationships between people like Betsy DeVos and, you know, the...
	Where they're having meetings and they've got Bill Gates and Tim Cook and Betsy DeVos and Peter Thiel, all these people who are essentially looking at how they can make money off of us and also how they can control.
	That's really kind of the public-private partnership, isn't it?
	Control for government and money for these corporations.
	And they see us as their slaves to manipulate, don't they?
	Yeah, and they basically see us as the term they use is human capital.
	And so one of the terms that's often used is human capital management.
	So not only are you the workforce drone, but you're also, and not only are you the consumer of the product that you produce, but you are yourself the product, right?
	You are the reservoir of data that they're using to basically create this artificial intelligence that will be used to basically dictate your life through social credit systems that will basically permit or restrict your access to the public square, commercial services, everything from healthcare, transportation, housing, education, jobs.
	They even have, you know, in China they have blacklists for, you know, so you can't even gather in public and things if you have, you know, wrong think in some of your We're good to go.
	In that book, Beyond Freedom and Dignity, what it indicates is that for him, the very notion of morality, of consciousness, of free will, these are all basically antiquarian superstitions that have gone by the wayside.
	You can't actually say that someone is wrong or bad or immoral.
	You can only say that The environment that he or she is responding to was not organized properly.
	In other words, whatever immoral actions this person might exhibit has nothing to do with the nature of their own soul or consciousness.
	It has everything to do with the stimuli that they're responding to.
	And once you reduce human consciousness to basically algorithms, to basically stimulus response inputs and outputs, we're left in a situation, as you sort of alluded to, in which the very notion of any form of democratic self-governance is also antiquarian.
	Because if there is no consciousness, there is no agency, then there's no justification for you to oppose or to resist the larger social credit system.
	If the social credit system, if we can come up with the data that will make you behave in the proper manner, It doesn't matter what you might, you know, in your illusionary conscious think to rebut, because that's all just ephemeral.
	It's like in Homo Deus, that's Yuval Noah Harari's book, where he goes deep into transhumanism.
	He equates consciousness, basically the analogy he uses, is to the roar an engine makes as it's flying through the air.
	The roar that an engine makes when a plane is flying is entirely secondary.
	It doesn't actually propel the vehicle through the sky.
	It's a secondary effect.
	For him, the inner monologue that you have inside your head, the thing that you recognize as yourself, your consciousness, your soul, that's just the roar of an engine makes.
	It's secondary.
	It's the sounds you hear when all those chemicals bounce around in your head.
	Wow. Yeah, but that's a key thing that you mentioned right at the very beginning of that, the fact that they're going to divorce any morality, any responsibility for people's actions.
	And we see that pervasive throughout our society.
	Well, you know, when the liberals, the way that they view crime, for example, right?
	We're not going to punish this person.
	We'll send them in. We'll rehabilitate them with some manipulation.
	Of course, that never works. But we're not going to hold them morally culpable for anything.
	They're just a product of their environment, right?
	You hear that over and over again.
	Well, where does that come from? That comes from this pervasive idea.
	B.F. Skinner and others of behavioral stuff.
	But it's also the aspect that we've seen for the longest time that we know that social media is set up to observe us.
	They can make money by observing us.
	They can tap into the We're good to go.
	But you're now becoming the product in a different way.
	And of course, just by collecting all that information, that gives them the power to control and to manipulate us, especially with the ability of government to force us.
	That's a concerning thing.
	But now, uh, it's going into another area as, as they move this into, um, uh, you know, AI and, and grabbing that information with it, let's talk a little bit about the charter school thing, because I've talked in the past with, uh, Mark Hall has done an excellent documentary called killing ed, uh, looking at, uh, what was the worst case scenario in a sense of corruption, perhaps, and that is the, uh, photographic land movement and how much money they were getting out of the charter school stuff.
	But, but talk a little bit about, uh, charter schools as part of the bigger picture of this global technocracy and this kind of fascist control of, of our kids from a very early age.
	you So I see the evolution of the American education system in three broad phases.
	So the first would just be the compulsory education phase, starting with Horace Mann in the mid-1800s.
	Then there we go through sort of a federalization phase.
	It sort of starts actually with like the foundation funding, so your general education board that was created by the Rockefellers.
	And then your Carnegie Institution, Carnegie Center for Advanced Community Teaching, Ford Foundation, and then moving into the development of first the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, and then eventually the Department of Education.
	But the third phase is then this corporatization phase.
	So you basically force everybody to have to go to a state school.
	Then you bloat the budget with federal dollars.
	And then, as we've seen recently, when we hit these budget crises, what happens is this is actually how I started writing the book because during a time when the governor in Illinois was a guy named Bruce Rauner.
	He's a big charter school proponent.
	There's actually a Rauner charter school named after him.
	It's in the Noble Network of Charter Schools in Chicago.
	And basically what was happening was the federal, they wouldn't pass the budget, which meant they couldn't get state funds, which meant she couldn't get federal funds.
	And come to find out one of my departments, the adult education department that I was teaching some GED in at the time, was actually 90% funded by the federal government.
	So that meant that the whole department shut down.
	So I wrote this article on the Corporatization of Education and Charlotte saw it and that was how I got to meet her and all that.
	But basically, right, after getting you sort of dependent on that federal budget, they sort of pull out the rug and go, oh, here's the solution.
	It's these corporate charter schools, these public-private partnerships.
	And, you know, the thing about it is, and you're seeing this push right now, right?
	You see it especially as sort of an election thing where the Republicans are pushing a lot of school choice stuff is sort of the antidote to all the craziness that's going on.
	What you have to understand is that charter schools, what they do is that it's still a government school because they're subsidized by federal dollars, right?
	And once you put the federal strings attached, right?
	That's right.
	We froze there.
	Okay, sorry. It froze for a second, but we're back.
	Go ahead. Sorry. It's even worse, Abby, than just having the government school because the government...
	Yeah, I saw something froze.
	Where did I cut at? Yeah, it froze, but I think we got you.
	Go ahead. Continue with where you were.
	We didn't lose too much of it. You were talking about the federal dollars and how they...
	If they control the money, they control the purse strings, they control what's happening.
	Yeah, so... That's freezing up again on us.
	Okay. Right, and it's even schools because...
	Are we going to need to...
	Yeah, let's... Okay, so...
	Let's cut. I think we need to...
	You want to try to reestablish connection?
	Yeah, let's try to reestablish connection.
	And, John, and we're going to...
	We're going to cut it, and then we're going to recall you.
	Maybe we'll get something a little bit better.
	I don't know why it's freezing like that.
	I think it's okay. Should I close out and come back?
	Wait, Travis says he thinks you're okay.
	He thinks you're okay. All right, let's just go ahead and continue.
	We're talking about how if they're going to get the private funds, of course the government is going to control it.
	They're going to first bribe people and then they will blackmail you once you get used to their money, right?
	That's what always happens. So go ahead.
	Right. And it's worse than just the big government school because...
	With the government school, at least you have an elected school board.
	Regardless of how poor or whoever might be in charge, you still have access to go and vote the people out.
	With the corporate charter school, that doesn't exist.
	They have a corporate board.
	There is no voting anybody out.
	You're basically stuck with it.
	you know, once if they can convert a large portion of the schooling system to this public-private system, basically what you'll have is the removal of any civil recourse, any democratic resource to any elected school board or otherwise. The other thing that should be noted is that the Democrats, the left, have pushed charter schools just as much.
	So it's not a right-wing thing.
	It's not a conservative thing, not just for the reasons that I just laid out, but you have some...
	I mean, the Obama administration was one of the biggest pushers of charter schools.
	Arne Duncan, who was the Secretary of Education and received massive funding from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, he basically...
	He kicked off all of the charter school privatization in Chicago before he came to be the Secretary of Education.
	And then you have somebody like Kevin Chavis.
	Kevin Chavis, he belongs to the American Federation for Children, which is that charter school nonprofit that Betsy DeVos is part of as well.
	And he was also connected to, I believe it was Jeb Bush's Digital Learning Council, and the Digital Learning Council was what came up with these 10 elements for quality digital learning that Alec adopted for the Virtual Public Schools Act.
	So what you see here is not just that Democrats and Republicans have both pushed it, but they've actually been involved in some of the same foundations and other institutions to promote this.
	So, I mean, it's not a left-right thing.
	That's just a dialectical thing.
	Yeah, yeah. When you look at these key things that they're pushing at us, you see the Uni Party in the same way that you see the public-private partnership, you see the Democrat-Republican partnership as well jumping in on this because, again, it's the massive amount of money that's there.
	Now, one of the things that you mentioned I thought is interesting, one of the things that's driving this with the Republican base, of course, It's what we see in terms of the wokeness in the schools.
	Well, we've got to have more control of the schools, and they think that they're going to get that with a charter school.
	But talk about this, because one of the things that the corporations have been selling is this whole idea of competence.
	And so how does this competence thing play off against the woke stuff that is out there?
	Well, so competency-based education is an extension of something called outcomes-based education, okay?
	And outcomes-based education dovetailed with something that was called PPBS, Planning, Programming, and Budgeting Systems.
	It actually was developed by the RAND Corporation, was first used by the military, and then it was sort of outsourced as a way to plan all the various federal agencies.
	And the way that they would plan was based on Outcomes-based pedagogy in terms of the education institutions, right?
	So what this means is that you have some predetermined outcomes of two different categories.
	One would be workforce development, and the other one would be what I call the political end or the civic development, and that's basically Back in the day, they called it values clarification.
	Nowadays, you know, it's all the critical theory woke stuff.
	It's basically the re-education of the American populace, transitioning them from traditional Christian values to, you know, this new basically post-Marxist or cultural Marxist ideology.
	And then the workforce development would have to do with the basic job skills that they need.
	So the way that you train those outcomes, the way you achieve those outcomes through the PPBS is by training the students to, for particular competencies, okay? And they could be workforce competencies, but they also have social emotional learning competencies. And the social emotional, there's something called CASEL, C-A-S-E-L, I can't remember what the first two parts of the acronym, collaborative, collaborative for something social, emotional learning. And, you know, they have these vague categories of like, you know,
	teamwork and, you know, grit and self-esteem and things like that. But the basically, you can think of the social emotional stuff is what's driving a lot of the, I guess, the woke agenda. But the competency-based stuff in terms of the workforce would be more, I guess, promoted more by sort of the right of center. And for those that don't know, actually the charter school movement was actually created by the American
	Federation of Teachers, President Albert Shanker. And And the AFT, what was different about the AFT from the NEA was that it was actually, the NEA is largely considered a union of professional associations.
	The AFT is considered a trade union.
	And so the AFT was really big on partnering with the companies to basically, so that they could...
	Get on board with what the industries needed in terms of training the students for those workforce competencies.
	And I actually stumbled on a document where Shanker admits that he met with the Trilateral Commission at one point.
	During the 80s, and he also said there was a representative of bankers and representatives from IBM. So the competency-based education is basically the development of the workforce for job skills, but also some of that woke stuff.
	Yeah, it's kind of interesting to me because, you know, the left loves this woke stuff, and the right is buying into the competency thing.
	But what they don't realize is that those are both all about, as you pointed out from the very beginning, is about manipulating the kids as some animal, devoid of any morality, devoid of any free agency and free will, any of that kind of stuff.
	And so both of them are really skinner-esque in their manipulation.
	It's just what their immediate goals are focused on.
	And the left buys into one of those, and the right buys into the other one.
	And yet the reality is that even competence is not really what our kids need, is it?
	I mean, there has to be something there where they understand the bigger picture.
	I'm thinking, John, back to R.L. Dabney, who was writing about the dangers of government involvement in education.
	And he said, you can train people.
	Uh, for certain things, but that's not education.
	And if you start actually doing education, which in his mind, it was his view of education was completely antithetical to BF Skinner.
	His whole idea was he said, look, any kind of competency training where you're training people to do stuff, that's all well and good.
	That's fine. But you've got to have people who have some kind of a moral foundation or religious foundation, and we don't want government having anything to do with that.
	It's going to be real problematic if government is involved in that.
	But, you know, the rest of this stuff is, if you take that out, you know, what are you going to wind up with?
	You're going to wind up with these automatons that have, you know, no moral basis whatsoever.
	And that's what we're really seeing in both the woke and the competence stuff, isn't it?
	It's just the different angles that people are coming at it with.
	And what they want out of their kids, and they all see the kids as a product to be manipulated, don't they?
	Yeah, I mean, so you point out sort of this left-wing version, this right-wing version, this left-wing version sort of being the critical theory and the woke stuff, basically called for Marxism.
	So that's basically, you know, your leftist Hegelian ideology, And on the right, when you talk about the workforce training, the public-private partnerships between the government and these big businesses to facilitate a planned economy, I mean, that's the fascist anger or the right-wing version of Hegelianism.
	So what they both have in common, both philosophically and historically, is Hegelianism.
	Hegel basically believed that it was a collectivist philosophy.
	He basically had this theory that history evolves through ideas.
	There's usually a dominant idea that he called the thesis.
	Then there's these other ideas that come in conflict with that.
	And those are the antithesis.
	And then through that, you come to a synthesis.
	And for him, the synthesis was expressed in the state, right?
	So all the contradictions between the thesis and the antithesis would eventually come together in the evolution of the state, which he said was God marching on Earth.
	So in both instances, basically what you have is two pillars that have built what today is called stakeholder capitalism being pushed by the World Economic Forum in In the Great Reset, it was actually developed in the 70s by Klaus Schwab.
	And when you look at it, what are the two tenets of your stakeholder capitalism?
	Well, you have your public-private partnerships, right?
	But then you also have your DEI, or diversity, equity, and inclusion, based on the different stakeholders, and with a particular emphasis on what they call community-based stakeholders, okay?
	And this actually leads us into another, this is sort of the left-wing counterpart to the charter school privatization, And that's something called community schools.
	And the way that those privatize is through something called wraparound services.
	And these wraparound services in the Every Student Succeeds Act, to be a full-service community school, you have to have these public-private wraparound, or sometimes they call them pipeline services.
	And that's where the school plugs into healthcare workforce training programs with the in-demand industries in the local areas.
	And then also, like, criminal justice programs to prevent at-risk youth from becoming delinquents.
	And so again, right, you see sort of this left-wing version, this right-wing version, but they both basically come together in the same project at the end.
	Yeah, it's kind of interesting. You're talking about the social-emotional learning and the SEL is what we typically see it abbreviated as.
	And, you know, that is going in and starting to look at, as you point out, bringing in the larger community aspect, the family, and that type of thing.
	But, of course, you know, in their vision, there is no family.
	There's just, you know, God marching through society in the form of government.
	Talk a little bit about what happened During the Trump administration with Betsy DeVos and some of the things that happened there, as I look at this lockdown, the more I look at it, reading your book and their emphasis, DeVos' emphasis on remote learning and monitoring the kids, all of that is part of it.
	I thought, well, that really played into their vision of a more technological development Education, as Charlotte Disabee had talked about, you know, the monitoring what the kids are doing, feeding it to them through the computer.
	That was the way everybody was being forced to operate and do school during the lockdown.
	It really helped to advance that.
	I've talked many times about how it gave parents an opportunity to see what was happening with the...
	CRT stuff and the LGBT stuff in their classrooms.
	But I think a lot of them didn't really realize the bigger picture of how it was drawing the kids into this technological paradigm of getting their education through the computer box, did they?
	Yeah, one of the things that was passed early on during the whole lockdown phase were some new federal regulations on distance learning, and I believe the federal regulations, FR 18638.
	And what they did was, this is right in the, I don't want to say it's like April, so this is like a month or two into lockdowns.
	Before these new regulations, in order to be accredited, For a course to be accredited and transferable to other institutions, you had to have a certain number of what were known as Carnegie units.
	Carnegie units are measured in terms of classroom hours.
	In other words, hours during which the student is in contact with the human teacher.
	The student is gaining some form of instruction through interaction with the instructor.
	So what these federal regulations did in early April of, I guess, 2020, was they authorized the substitution of that human-to-human interaction, student-to-teacher interaction with, quote, adaptive learning and, quote, artificial intelligence.
	And then the term CBE or competency-based education is used over 100 times in those federal regulations.
	So basically what they did was they said that, no, you don't have to have all that human interaction anymore.
	We can accredit you just based on the students using adaptive learning courseware, which, as I mentioned, is the modern digital version of the Skinner box.
	And one thing I should also add about that is that the algorithms, they tell you like on some of the companies, the adaptive learning courseware company, some of them are there's Clever, there's Newton.
	Both of those are funded by Peter Thiel, by the way, who had a private meeting with DeVos at one point while she was secretary of ed.
	But then you had other like Smart Sparrow and then Brightspace, Dreambox.
	And in Dreambox, they specifically say not only that the algorithms they use are based on Skinner's operating conditioning algorithms, but they're also based on the same algorithms that Netflix uses for behavioral advertise.
	So built into it is this, right?
	It sort of gets us back to, we're data mining students not just to develop this AI, but also to enhance our abilities to, you know, turn the students into human capital resources.
	Yeah, it's just amazing how manipulative it all is.
	And while we're talking about manipulation, you know, we talked a little bit about BF Skinner.
	Define Skinner Box for our audience.
	Yeah, the Skinner Box, so it's a play on what was called the Puzzle Box experiments that were created by E.L. Thorndyke.
	So, you know, whereas Vuent was doing what was called basically associative or classical conditioning, right, just seeing if you could get certain responses in association with particular stimuli.
	D.L. Thorndike would come with these puzzle box experiments where he put the rat in the maze, right?
	Where the pigeon has to click the button or something like that, right?
	To see not just can you have the animal associate certain reflexes with certain stimuli, but can it be...
	Or, to use Skinner's term, this is why he uses it, operant.
	In other words, with the right schedule and the right system of stimuli, could you condition the animal to perform operations or procedures?
	And that would be more readily transferable to conditioning a human being to perform a particular workforce.
	So that term Skinner Box was basically just what he called the different experiments he did with his animals.
	But later, when he came up with his teaching machines, he literally said that the teaching machine is my box.
	So for him, you could use the Skinner Box both as a reference to the animal contraptions that condition the animals, but also the earlier iterations of the teaching machines.
	And so in a general sense, you know, what we're looking at are more sophisticated and extended versions of the Skinner box when you're talking about the computer instruction as they're using it, right?
	Yeah, and honestly, the entire social credit system is just a giant scare box, if you think about it, because everything is basically conditioning you to, right, through rewards and punishments, right, through, like, either, you know, in China, if you have a really high social credit score, you can get discounts on your hotels, or, right, you can jump to the front of the line at the doctor's office, right?
	Those would be the rewards.
	The punishments are like, you know, you're going to have to pay extra if you want that beer this week, or you're going to have to pay extra for You know, to play this video game or you're not allowed in the store today because you're not up to date on your vaccine or whatever it might be.
	So, you know, everywhere you go, every institution, public or private, right, that you're incentivized to basically gain access to these different digital rewards and punishments.
	It's interesting that we see the same things being used over and over again.
	They've got the same MO for everything.
	You've got to monitor everybody, use that to manipulate and coerce people, but also to have complete foresight as to everything that is happening.
	There's also a eugenics aspect to this as well that you talk about in your book.
	Talk about how they're applying eugenics in education.
	Yeah, so it really comes out of the mental hygiene branch of eugenics.
	So eugenics back in the day, there was two branches, right?
	There was what was called race hygiene, and then there was mental hygiene.
	And the race hygiene is most well known in terms of Hitler's, you know, attack on Jews and other ethnic populations that were not Aryan.
	Right? And so basically...
	Or also here in the United States would say, you know, Margaret Sanger, her intention to, you know, abort black kids, you know, because she didn't like black kids, that type of thing.
	Yeah. Yeah, 100%.
	And, you know, and it was the Rockefeller Foundation from here, right, that funded the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Human Heredity, and Eugenics.
	And then you had people like Charles Davenport, who was pen pals with some of the people that were running some of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institutes.
	One of them would have been Fritz Lenz.
	There was a couple others that escaped me right now.
	But so the Hitlerian eugenics project was actually an extension of the American corporatization of the British eugenics project.
	It started really with Darwin, and then ultimately his cousin basically took that idea of natural selection and said, we can basically control evolution, we can steer it through what he called positive eugenics, so that was like inbreeding between the elites, and the negative eugenics, which was to sort of call the gene pool from the unfit, and that would be like sterilization, euthanasia, abortion, and And those would have been applied in terms of race hygiene just based on your ethnic lineage.
	But let's say you fit the ethnic profile to be acceptable to Hitler or whoever.
	If your IQ was too low or you had some other mental issue, you still needed to be sterilized or otherwise segregated from society.
	And that was called the mental hygiene.
	And one of the aspects of mental hygiene was based on the IQ tests, which were developed in the early Simons-Binet IQ tests.
	And so basically what they would do is, you know, your mean was 100, and then every 10 points below that, deviation from the average was considered either, and these were like scientific terms at the time, you had like moron, idiot,
	imbecile, like these were categories that would render you to be either, you know, put in a home or sterilized, etc., So, based on this theory, what you get over time was, well, it basically gets brought back with the bell curve, and Charles Murray wrote the bell curve, and by the way, he has attended Bilderberg meetings.
	Oh, yeah, he's pushing universal basic income now as well.
	You know, he's one of these guys talking about losing ground and how the welfare system would not work, but now he's out there pushing universal basic income.
	I didn't know that he had attended the Bilderbergs, but that makes perfectly good sense.
	Yeah. Yeah, and I noted that in the book that, you know, this libertarian guy is for a UBI, right?
	And what's funny is one of the things they used to justify their data was something called the Flynn Effect.
	And the Flynn Effect basically said this.
	So the question was, you know, after we discovered the horrors of the Holocaust, you know, eugenics became this four-letter word.
	And a lot of the eugenics societies changed their names.
	So the British Eugenics Society became the Galt Institute.
	Recently changed its name again, like this year or last year.
	I can't remember what it is.
	The American Eugenics Society is something like the Society for the Study of Social Biology.
	But basically, it went underground into something called crypto-eugenics.
	And those would have been things like, basically, it was Friedrich Osborn.
	Abortion was, for him, a good use for crypto-eugenics.
	And what we saw in terms of the concerns of overpopulation over the decades that culminated in...
	In, you know, the one-child policy in China, these were also, you know, for people like Osborne, who, by the way, was a member of the American Eugenics Society, that these were also methods of crypto-eugenics, okay?
	So people started to wonder, or the question was, was that IQ score based on genetics, or was it based on the environment?
	And so they started to do some studies over time that showed that IQ scores...
	It had risen over the decades, and they attributed a lot of that to access to education and things.
	But what they also studied, so somebody like Jim Flynn, he would have looked at that and said, see, this means that...
	And none of these guys are just in one camp or the other.
	It's sort of like, right, it's a ratio.
	Like, how much of it is genetic? How much of it is environmental?
	But for Jim Flynn, it's more environmental.
	Charles Davenport, or Charles Murray, people like that, Richard Lynn, I'm trying to think of some of these other guys that were part of the Pioneer Fund, which was basically this white supremacist think tank.
	You had people like Felipe J. Rushton, Arthur Jensen, Linda Godfrensen, okay.
	And basically, what people like that would have said is they'd look at the Flynn effect and say, okay, yeah, you're right.
	Look, you can increase people's IQ with environmental conditions, right, so access to education and stuff.
	They said, look, the deviation stays the same.
	Meaning whites are still at 100 average.
	Black, brown people are going progressively less.
	And then Ashkenazi Jews and Asians are always above.
	So even though you can increase the IQ with education and other things, the deviation stays the same.
	So somebody like Murray says, this means that we have to personalize education based on a student's genetic IQ. And so the burgeoning trend is called precision education, and it's a play on precision medicine, which is a burgeoning field that basically wants to treat all ailments, personalize them by treating them based on your genetic code.
	And so one of the ways that they're building the data to sort of apply this to education is through companies like 23andMe, where when you send your DNA in there and you ask them, hey, what's my ethnic lineage?
	You can also check this box, and this box says something like, can we use your DNA for research?
	Well, if you say yes, they'll try to find sequences in there that correlate with other physiological or mental conditions.
	Maybe it's allergies, maybe it's IQ, and they've got a whole set of stuff on different sequences that they think correlate to IQ.
	I should mention that the correlations between these DNA sequences and IQ, it's not much more than 50%, which isn't that high.
	When you're talking about phenotypic stuff, it's not that high.
	Like, you know, skin color, hair type, it's like 90%, right?
	I mean, like, Mendel could predict it, you know, just doing his Punnett squares with roses and peas and stuff.
	When it comes to IQ, you can't do it like that.
	But they think, you know, that it's...
	For them, if it's...
	You know, just like they do with pharmaceuticals.
	If it's more than 50%, you know what I mean?
	That means it's ethical, right?
	And so they want to take that, and there's a guy by the name of Robert Plomin.
	He's actually siding the bell curve, and he wants to apply it through something called the learning chip that would basically keep a record of not just your genetic IQ, but perhaps other learning disabilities.
	And then that would set you on the trajectory of what types of adaptive learning course or what types of wearables you'll need.
	To get you to the competencies and the outcomes that they have planned through the PPVS and everything else.
	Wow. So they're going to look at that and they're going to kind of send you down a track where, very much like Brave New World, as you talk about, where maybe they're not manipulating people in the hatcheries, but they're going to manipulate you as you go through the school system to make you somebody who's going to be a janitor or somebody who's going to be a CEO that puts you on these different tracks based on how they so-called analyze your genetic makeup, which they currently don't know yet.
	Talk a little bit more about these wearables, because that's one of the creepiest things.
	Where are we with that? I haven't seen much of that in terms of, you know, Betsy DeVos's, what was their neuron, the company that she had?
	NeuroCore. Yeah, I haven't seen much of that.
	What is the status of that?
	Is that still kind of experimental?
	Have they rolled that out anywhere?
	What kind of devices are they working on?
	You know, I was busy, busy, busy, but I thought last night and then this morning, busy, busy, I was like, I should have sent him, you, I should have sent you the, there's a clip, okay, and anybody can check it, and I'll send it to you afterwards, you can play it on your next episode.
	If you go to, if you go on YouTube, you just type in BrainCoChina.com, WSJ for Wall Street Journal.
	You're going to get a short little documentary that shows you how, in China, how they're using a particular wearable called the Focus 1 Headband.
	It's developed by a company called BrainCo.
	It was developed by...
	A team of Harvard academics in partnership with the Chinese state-owned Electronics Corporation.
	And in this short documentary, what you'll see is classrooms of students with the halo on their head, and it's feeding that data into a dashboard on the teacher's desk.
	And then the teacher is going to monitor that.
	And then, you know, basically what's showing is, are the students paying attention?
	Are they frustrated? Are they daydreaming?
	Right. Are they enjoying the curriculum?
	All these types of things.
	If somebody's algorithms go funky, the teacher, I guess, is supposed to intercede and maybe help get them back on track.
	It'll take that data and it'll send it to the parents.
	So the parents can punish you if you weren't following instructions as well.
	And then it goes into the broader social credit database.
	And they show, basically, not just the classroom aspects, but they just show the broad and social credit Infrastructure with all the surveillance grid technologies that are basically all tracking that data and associating it with your digital ID or your biometric ID as you move through real space and virtual space.
	But in the United States, where we're at with wearables is actually there's a company called HeartMath.
	So right now we've talked about the EEGs, the headbands, the data mining the brainwaves.
	Right. But there's also wearables that data mine the heart rate.
	And one of the companies that does that is called HeartMath.
	And I wrote about it in my book.
	They have two products.
	One is called M-Wave.
	The other one's called Interbalance.
	And it was largely piloted, as most of this stuff is.
	It's piloted to help, usually at first, with people who have learning disabilities.
	So, like, this was supposed to help students with, like, who have test anxiety.
	So you're supposed to put the heart rate monitor on before you, you know, before you get really worked up on the test.
	And they have, like, meditations, like breathing exercises that, by the way, are trademarked.
	So I guess you're not allowed to use them outside of the premises or the purview of the product.
	They even own and control how you breathe, right?
	It's funny because it comes out of this new age company.
	They have a for-profit branch and a non-profit branch.
	They have this multi-level marketing system where you can be a heart map coach.
	You can train people to use this trademarked breathing technique.
	They're all into this communitarian, collectivist, whatnot, but yet they trademark a breathing technique on a technological device that's going to data mine you.
	So the students use that to kind of get calmed down before they take the test.
	And just recently, maybe a month or two ago, I got an email from one of the colleges where I teach, one of the community colleges where I teach.
	I'm an adjunct, so I bounce around at different community colleges.
	They're using it at one of those schools now.
	And I think it was in partnership with the Health and Wellness Center or something like that.
	So it's not like in the classroom, but if you're having some stress about studying or something, I guess you can go to the Health and Wellness Center and they'll hook you up to one of these things and you'll do some meditation or whatever and it'll...
	I can't think of anything more stressful than even from an early age, like you're talking about the kids in China, knowing that it's going to know if you're paying attention or not and how good you're paying attention, watching everything that you're doing, feeding it into essentially your permanent record, and this is going to set you on a trajectory for what you'll be allowed to do in your life.
	We're seeing this happening, John, with a...
	With the Amazon drivers who have every bit of movement that they're doing is being watched and analyzed and reported and that kind of pressure that's being put on people.
	And this is the kind of, as you're talking about these different aspects and about the eugenics aspects of this and everything, makes me think of all the worst aspects of all these dystopian films, like not just Brave New World, but also things like Gattaca, where they are We're good to go.
	your skin color or your chosen gender or this or that, but also now based on how they have identified you with your genetics, you're not going to have a chance to try to change at some point in your life or have a chance to really buckle down and work on your merit.
	You're going to be pigeonholed by these people and they're going to control you for the rest of your life.
	What a horrific model these people have.
	What do we do to try to pull back against this?
	Of course, a big part of it is your book, School World Order, pulling as people can hear.
	You've got a tremendous breadth and depth of understanding about the relationships and the history of this stuff.
	And so that's what's really good about this book.
	But other than educating ourselves about where these people want to go and the tactics that they're going to use, what would you say the best way to defend against this is?
	So when I wrote it, you know, I'm a public educator.
	I came out of public education.
	And when I wrote it, you know, this was kind of prescient because it was published in October 2019.
	It was only a few months until lockdowns came.
	And then basically everything that I thought I had about 10 years to warn people about was basically thrust down our throats, right?
	I mean, we were just all... Plugged into the computers 24 hours a day.
	Right. At the time, you know, I was hoping that there might be some way to try to reform public education.
	So I had like a five-point program in there.
	The first one was to local control, public control, right?
	It means locally elected school boards, no public-private partnerships.
	The other one was to ban the behavioral educational psychology as a methodology for teaching.
	It doesn't just mean with technology and data mining.
	It means... You know, the whole reward and punishment system with gold stars and detentions and all that type of stuff.
	To the extent that we use technology, this is the third premise.
	There should be no data mining involved.
	Certainly no biometric, psychometric data mining.
	And then the last two had to do with a return to the classical method.
	Which is grammar, logic, rhetoric, grounded in civics and history rather than social studies and critical theory with an emphasis on history of philosophy.
	But then grounded in metaphysics, right?
	And it's one of the denser chapters because I'm not quite saying God, but I am, right?
	Because if truth is objective and morality is objective, that means it's metaphysical, right?
	It means it comes from Right, beyond our social conditions, right?
	It comes from the universe, God, nature, however you want to call it, right?
	And so I thought that, you know, if we could at least have a discussion of metaphysics in an educational setting, which is totally gone, right?
	All philosophy, all postmodern philosophy, there is no discussion of metaphysics or ontology, and that's what gets us to this relativistic state where we can transmute the human person through merging with technology, We're changing the categories of identity with all this woke stuff, right? But, you know, in the wake of lockdowns and the mandates, I've been promoting, you know, homeschooling.
	100% homeschooling, pods, co-ops, finding people in your neighborhood.
	All these other premises still apply.
	It's just that rather than trying to reform from the inside, I say we have to build...
	An organic, a truly community-based homeschooling system.
	And to do so, you'll need to hopefully find some people around you that are good at that.
	But what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to put some courses together through Autonomy University.
	That's Richard Grove's organization.
	and so sort of a basket of these different, you know, non-accredited, non-institutional approaches as sort of a broader basket. That would be the best I can...
	I couldn't agree with you more.
	You're absolutely right.
	It's moved too quickly and it's gone too far and it's too pervasive in terms of governments and corporations and all the political parties are in on this thing.
	The institutions have totally been taken over, and I really do think we have to do this on a parallel manner, and you're absolutely right.
	One of the best ways that people can look at it, it's a very rigorous way to go, but a classical education is really ideal.
	And to get people to think about things, as you're pointing out, you know, when, you know, taking out the metaphysical and going really with this Skinner-esque thing, focusing just on us as, you know, our animal nature, essentially, which is what they're trying to do to control us, we have to pull back from that and look at the bigger picture.
	And that really truly is the anecdote.
	And that has to be a part of our education, critical thinking, and all the rest of this stuff.
	But laying that foundation that is there, getting kids to think about the bigger picture instead of just the immediacy of what they're going to do, I think that is one of the most important ways that they have purged God out of the schools.
	You know, they focus on these things, well, we can't have a silent prayer event in schools anymore.
	That's just the tip of the iceberg.
	That is just a little superficial thing that really didn't matter.
	What is really mattering is what you talked about, the fact you can't even have these discussions, and you will never really have these discussions.
	One of the things R.L. Dabney was saying is, if you're going to pull this into the government, whose version of a reality, of metaphysical reality, of religion, of spirituality, whose version is going to be taught?
	That's why I agree with you.
	It's got to be done in kind of a parallel way.
	It's got to be parents who are in control, and there's a lot of people who are looking for this now, and I think that's the key thing.
	So you're putting together a curriculum as well?
	Yeah, so I mean I've tried to do some of it on my own.
	I have, like, a really short video on Introduction to the Trivium on my YouTube and my bit shoot.
	One of the things that Richard Grove is going to help me out with is, you know, the time it takes to edit and everything like that.
	So the first thing I'm going to do is just do a crash course in the book, but eventually I'm going to do a series on rhetoric.
	I think he has some series on philosophy and on basic Trivium stuff with some other creators.
	And the thing I think that's important about developing these types of courses, Is that another issue that's not that I didn't touch on in the book, but is always sort of, I think I've always kind of known it intuitively, but helped bring it to the forefront of my consciousness was a friend of mine who's part of the Undercover Mothers.
	And she's told me that the private schools are just as bad with a lot of this woke stuff.
	And of course, they want the vouchers, which would just, you know, would be Basically federalize them.
	But the reason why the private schools do that is because of the national accrediting agencies, like the National Association of Independent Schools.
	So in other words, one of the concerns that adults or parents have when they bring their kids to a school or when they're thinking about making the decision to move to homeschooling is like...
	Is my child going to get a good job or be able to go to a good college?
	Are they going to be afforded the opportunities that they would be afforded from an accredited school?
	So at the end of the day, education is really...
	It's not teaching you how to think.
	It's teaching you what to think. But more importantly, it's accrediting you.
	It's giving you those competency certificates so that you can fit into the planned economy.
	So we have to actually also...
	Yes.
	Yes. You know, because they want to label you a terrorist, which they've done to many people, but you're still paying taxes.
	So just because your child isn't in that school doesn't mean you still have every right to go in there and politely, with rhetorical savvy, right, explain, you know, what reforms you would like.
	You can even continue to run for school boards.
	So, you know, these two tracks, I think we need to work them both at the same time, right?
	Vote with our dollars on our feet, get out, and still put pressure on them through the civic sphere.
	Yeah, Alex Newman has put it.
	He says, so your kids are in a burning building.
	First thing you get to do is get them out.
	And then the second thing you do is work with other people in the community to put out the fire so it doesn't burn down the entire community.
	That's exactly what you're talking about.
	Get your kids out. Take care of your kids.
	But at the same time, you can still engage the school institutions because it's going to have an effect on the entire community.
	You're absolutely right. Yeah, and the other part of it, I just underscore as well, that whole thing about accreditation, if they can hold that over you, you know, like the Wizard of Oz at the end of the movie, you know, you want to get that medal saying that you've got a brain or courage or whatever.
	If they can hold that over you, they've got you.
	If they're going to hold out this accreditation thing, that means that they're then going to define the test.
	And then the curriculum is going to then teach to that test so that you can get those medals at the end.
	What the end product that you want from your kid at the very end is the ability to think and also to have a kid who doesn't graduate with honors, but a kid who is honorable.
	And if you focus on that and the real stuff, everything will work out in the end.
	John, it's great talking to you.
	It's an amazing book.
	I can't say enough good about this.
	Again, the book is Social World Order by John Kleizak, right?
	Is that the way I pronounce your name correctly?
	The Technocratic Globalization of Corporatized Education.
	Thank you so much. It was a fascinating interview, fascinating book.
	I highly recommend it. We'll get you back on sometime.
	Thank you. Alright, that's it for the broadcast, folks.
	Thank you. Have a great weekend.
	Thanks for listening. The Common Man.
	They created common core to dumb down our children.
	They created common past to track and control us.
	Their commons project to make sure the commoners own nothing.
	And the communist future.
	They see the common man as simple, unsophisticated, ordinary.
	But each of us has worth and dignity created in the image of God.
	That is what we have in common.
	That is what they want to take away.
	Their most powerful weapons are isolation, deception, intimidation.
	They desire to know everything about us while they hide everything from us.
	It's time to turn that around and expose what they want to hide.
	Please share the information and links you'll find at thedavidknightshow.com Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing.
	If you can't support us financially, please keep us in your prayers.
	TheDavidKnightShow.com Thank you.
	TheDavidKnightShow.com Well, that's it for this week.
	I'm Dr. Peter Salgo.
	I'll see you next week.
	later that day, they came for me for interrogation.
	I'm dragged. They never let you walk.
	They dragged me down the hallway, a guard on each side, into, again, another one of these interrogation rooms.
	It looked like a hardware store.
	And the man behind the table said, I am the devil.
	And I said, you're not the devil.
	And he said, oh, I'm the devil.
	I'm not only a Marxist and a Leninist.
	I'm a Stalinist. I was trained in Czech Slovakia.
	So I respond, well, I'm a Christian.
	And he spits out, I hate Christians.
	Mainly, after you get out of South Africa, and I guess Zimbabwe, where the Marxists are, the rest of Africa is really kind of under the thumb of Islam, isn't it?
	Well, Islam controls one-third of Africa, the north.
	About 40% of the population of Africa are in Muslim-majority countries.
	And the top seven countries in Africa are Arabic-speaking and Islamic-majority.
	Egypt, Algeria, all those countries, Libya and so on.
	Mali, Mauritania, these are Muslim countries.
	Somalia, 99% Muslim and so on.
	Central Africa's got quite a lot of communist activity.
	Worst in Zimbabwe, but we've got other communist hellholes as well.
	And that's what started our mission.
	When I was in the South African army, I had a Bible study group that met every night for Bible study and prayer.
	And we had all-night prayer meetings and prayed our way through Operation World.
	And we saw the tremendous threat to us of communism and terrorism.
	And so the vision came through very clearly.
	The communists are coming to us with hate and with bombs.
	Have we ever gone to them with the gospel of Christ, with Bibles and with the love of Christ?
	And surely the best form of defense is attack.
	And the enemy's coming to plant bombs in our roads and to kill our people.
	Surely we should be going to undermine them with the gospel and with evangelism and turn many of their people into Bible-believing evangelical Christians.
	And so Frontline Fellowship was born under that vision.
	And for the last 42 years, I've been leading missions all over Africa, especially into communist countries and later Muslim countries, to evangelize them.
	We took a high priority to evangelizing the anti-communist guerrillas, like Unita Freedom Fighters of Jonas Vimby and Angola, and the renormal anti-communist resistance movements in Mozambique.
	And if you just think of how America fought in Vietnam, and you left many years ago, 1975, but you left behind the Montanards, well-trained by the Green Berets, who continue to resist the communists in Vietnam and Cambodia for decades to come.
	And so I see, if you think of the goal of special forces, you work behind enemy lines, and then you not only work behind enemy lines, but you leave behind special forces who will continue to fight the enemy, many of whom are ex-communists themselves.
	So I took a high priority to training UNITA freedom fighters and RENOMO anti-communist guerrillas in the gospel, training chaplains and leading them with chaplain's handbooks and Bibles and evangelism, Jesus' film, outreachers, and so on.
	And these people continue to stay and to fight against communists when we come home.
	And so we've got anti-communist resistance movements strengthened by the gospel all over Africa.
	In Sudan, I found the SPLA, the Sudanese People's Liberation Army, with a Marxist background, and we turned the whole revolutionary movement of the Sudanese People's Liberation Army into a Christian movement.
	They got rid of the commissars, they brought in chaplains, we just read Bibles, we did evangelism, and right up to the top people, their leaders, we convinced them that the best thing was to make peace with God, to make peace for the Christian population of their nation, and to stop fighting God, and rather to submit to God, and that'll be the best way to get freedom for the country.
	And it was so successful that South Sudan is now a free and independent country.
	It seceded successfully from Arabic, Islamic Sudan, seceded from the Sharia law, 9th of July 2011, South Sudan became the youngest country in the world.
	And that's just one of our success stories.
	Mozambique, which was a communist country, where we had to smuggle in Bibles in 1982 when I started our work, today it's open for the gospel.
	It's easy to start a Christian school, church, very little red tape, and the government's even given back Hundreds of churches that they'd confiscated and closed back to the church and schools.
	And so we've seen tremendous success.
	Angola, which used to be a communist country, banned the Bible, burned churches.
	Today, wide open for the gospel.
	So our mission scene, and of course the greatest success of all you could say is Eastern Europe, which had once been communist satellites of the Soviet Union.
	We smuggled in Bibles, we did radio broadcasts, we did leadership training, underground leadership training courses like the School of the Prophets, which grew into being the biggest Christian university in Europe, Emmanuel University in Aradia, in Romania now.
	And that started as an illegal night school during the communist persecution.
	These are just some of the examples of answers to prayer and the power of the gospel to transform lives.
	So right now we've got a whole program called The Gospel for Gorillas, Tracts for Terrorists.
	You know, transform terrorists into evangelists.
	Think of the persecutor church, Saul, became the apostle, missionary of the church, Paul.
	And so God can take enemies...
	And turn him into his own evangelist.
	And there's nothing like the zeal of a convert.
	And I was brought up in a secular family, and from the day I was converted, I've known I've been called to missions.
	But to evangelize terrorists, and I've gone and I've preached to terrorists, I've been their basis, I've evangelized Muslims who were terrorists, I've evangelized communists who were terrorists, and I've seen some of them won over, where now they are evangelists.
	And instead of Whipping up more wars and sinning in the Marines, I think we should be sinning in the missionaries.
	Instead of bombing the people, I think we should bombard them with Bibles and with prayer.
	And I believe there's no political solution to Christ in the Middle East.
	I believe the only solution is spiritual.
	We need to get into the Middle East and evangelize them.
	So amongst the examples you can find, there's a book out called Son of Hamas, where the son of the founder of Hamas is actually speaking out against Hamas.
	And if you've seen the books of Mark Gabriel, Mark Gabriel was...
	An Egyptian Arab Muslim who was a son of an Imam who was teaching as a professor in Kauri University.
	He was training the people in Islam, Islamic history and the Quran.
	And through the witness, the faithful witness of a Coptic Christian pharmacist, he came to Christ, and he was arrested.
	He was tortured by the police in Egypt for being a convert, an apostate from Islam, in other words.
	He fled overland all the way to South Africa, got more training in South Africa.
	I think he now lives in Canada.
	And Mark Gabriel has written books comparing Muhammad with Jesus, comparing Christianity with Islam, and helping people to understand the mind of Islamic terrorists.
	Now, there's an example of how it's better to...
	Transform a person from being a terrorist, or somebody who supports terrorism, or is the ideology behind it, to being an evangelist.
	In Rhodesia, where I grew up, there's a man, Nabezingi Musa, who's now past the Nabezingi Musa.
	He was a Zopri terrorist.
	Zimbabwe African People's Union, Soviet-backed, Soviet training.
	And he was sent to assassinate an evangelist in Harori Township outside Salisbury during the war.
	And he never gave the order because he got so entranced in what the evangelists were saying.
	I was told when you preach, you should preach like your life depends on it, like you're a dying man to die.
	Like this would be the last time you preach or the last time you hear or hear you.
	Well, that evangelist saved his life by preaching so well that a loser didn't give the order for attack.
	And his men came to him afterwards confusedly.
	He said, go home. I'll speak to you later.
	And then he went to the evangelist, gave his life to the Lord, and he went into theological training.
	He became a pastor. I was having supper with him one time, and we were in a buffet at a hotel.
	And I said, you know, you've passed the meat.
	Don't you want to get any meat? And he said, no, it reminds me too much when I used to eat people.
	Oh. I mean, I was having supper with a cannibal.
	Wow. But, you know, now he's an absolute cannibal.
	And... What an extraordinary experience.
	I know so many people like this.
	Yeah, God can change anybody.
	I love what you're saying, because I keep saying to people, you know, we're not going to have reform in this country unless we get right with God.
	And that really is the path.
	You want to have asymmetric warfare?
	And the church is called not to be on defense, but to be on offense.
	I love that. Now, let me ask you, you said you met with a group of terrorists.
	How do you get...
	How would you get into that group of terrorists?
	Was there somebody that introduced you and brought you in?
	How did you get into this group to evangelize them?
	Well, let me give you my first example.
	Back in 1982, I... I bought my motorbike and left South Ghanami, off-road motorbike, loaded up with World Mystery Press Gospel booklets, got the Jesus form, and I rode into Maputo, and I stood in the street corner saying, hello, hello, hello, and after a while somebody said hello back, and I turned and I said, are you a Christian?
	He said, hallelujah, and I said, praise the Lord, and he said, hallelujah, and we stood there so excited, and he said, do you have a place to stay?
	You must stay in my home tonight.
	Well, we had no plan.
	This is our accommodation.
	Do you have a translator? I speak Ronga, Tonga, Tsua, and Chang'an Portuguese fluently.
	You've got the job. And the next day, he gathered together a whole lot of underground church people, and we talked about hundreds of people in a burned-out, bombed-out church.
	Communist slogans on the walls, bullet holes on the walls, blood on the floor, a place being stripped, and just a few wires hanging out of the walls where there used to be plugs.
	And I had an evangelistic rally with them there, 14-hour service, just carried on on the people.
	It just so excited you, the first visitor we've had since the Revolution.
	And then I'd have the Jesus Fall.
	Now, interestingly, just that first time, to show you how bizarre everything was, I told him, I bought the Jesus form, and people got so excited about that.
	And then I said, do you know where I can borrow a projector?
	And it all got deflated, like, is he out of his mind?
	He comes to Mozambique, he doesn't have a projector.
	How's he going to show the film? Well, afterwards, a man came up to you and said, I work at the British Embassy.
	They've got a projector. Come to the corner of Vladimir Lenin and Mountsy Tongue Street tomorrow and I'll introduce you to the consulate.
	And so I went to the consulate, explained, you know, I'm a British citizen because my father fought six years of the Second World War in the Royal Artillery in the Eighth Army.
	I have a British passport, even though I've never lived in Britain.
	So I showed them my British passport and said, may I borrow your 16mm projector?
	I'm a British missionary working in Mozambique.
	I bought a film, but I don't have a projector.
	I couldn't afford a projector back then, actually.
	I'd just come out of the army and put all my money into getting the film and getting the Bibles we needed.
	So I couldn't afford a projector.
	So talk about a faith mission.
	And the consular said, you're welcome to borrow my projector, but he said, I need to warn you, there's power failures most of the time.
	We only get electricity about once a week.
	I said, well, we'll have to pray about that.
	So I set up in a church, and I've got to take the plug off with a Phillips screwdriver and then twist the wires together, trying not to electrocute myself, which isn't difficult because there's no power, and then pray for the lights to come on.
	Well, that night, that first night, believe it or not, the The power came on.
	So I could show the Jesus film, and just as we're in the crucifixion scene, the power goes off.
	I thought, that's not bad. They've got most of the film.
	I stood up and I preached, and as I was preaching on the cross of Christ, the lights come back on.
	So I'm able to continue. We finished the resurrection scene, Great Commission, and then the film was over.
	I could preach some more. While I'm preaching in the pitch dark, I see soldiers and camouflage coming to the front, carrying the AK-47s, and I thought, I'm about to get arrested.
	No, they knelt on the floor.
	They put their AK-47s on the ground.
	They knelt down, and they said, we want to give our lives to Christ.
	And I was able to lead communists to Christ on my first mission to Mozambique.
	I've baptized communists.
	I've had Bible studies. Now, some of them will invite you to come to the next place, or I'd have, can you show the form of our camp?
	I'd go to a camp, and I'd crank up the generator, and when we were a bit more organized later, we actually brought our own generators along, and we could show the Jesus film in the communist camps.
	I've shown the Jesus film in camps of communists in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, absolutely magnificent, even to Arabs in Sudan.
	I was driving in Harari in the embassy lane, and I saw an embassy to the Palestinian Liberation Organization.
	So I quickly stopped and turned into the embassy and asked to speak to the head of the PLO there in Harari.
	So this is like a terrorist training camp in an embassy, or it used to be an embassy, and now it's an embassy for the PLO terrorists in Harari.
	And, you know, I said I'm a theological student, which at that stage I was.
	And I'm interested in learning about Islam, which is also true, because I've specialized in Islam.
	And so we sat down, they start to explain Islam, and they were saying, but Islam isn't the only motivation to PLO. The PLO has Christians as well.
	And anyway, I found it hard to believe.
	But in talking to them, and they were saying, you know, we believe in full religious freedom.
	I said, I'm so glad to hear that.
	I've got the Jesus form.
	Can I show it to your people here?
	And the ship looks a bit like, what did I say wrong?
	And we went out there and we showed the film, and you could see some of the Muslims were quite agitated, but, you know, they just proclaimed their religious freedom.
	And so, okay, I didn't get a second chance, but I did get away with it that time.
	And things like this.
	There's a time I was preaching to a group of, I call them gooks, the Zimbabwe National Army, on an observation post overlooking Mutari in the eastern highlands of Zimbabwe.
	And on the way out, we were intercepted.
	Somebody had complained that I was preaching.
	And on the way down, the CIO, Central Intelligence Organization.
	They're like the KGB of Zimbabwe.
	They blocked the road.
	They caught us, ambushed us, and I was taken off to interrogation.
	And when I say interrogation, I mean took them to a room that looked like a hardware store, table full of all kinds of pliers and other tools, and sat in an armchair which had leather straps for the arms and for the feet, and there's a battery in the corner with crocodile clips and wires.
	So you know, the only way you're going to be charged is with electricity, and they're not depending on Zimbabwe electricity.
	They've got their own battery there. And I mean, it's literally shocking.
	So I'm sitting down there and they said, what are you teaching our men?
	So I start to relate the gospel.
	No, no, no, stop. Why have you come to Zimbabwe?
	So I related my testimony.
	And I tell you, these men start to shuffle, scratch the back of their heads, you know, shuffle their feet and look at their fingernails and getting awkward.
	And the one man said, my mother's very religious.
	The other one said, my sister's religious.
	And I Before you knew it, the whole atmosphere changed.
	I'm talking about these bloodthirsty, callous torturers, the CIO. They came with a conviction of sin.
	Wow. And, you know, in a time like that, you really feel an unction from on high to preach like you've never preached before, because your life literally, and your fingernails, depends on it.
	So I proclaimed the gospel to him, and literally within the hour, I was driving out of the driveway, giving back my vehicle and keys, and these men are standing with their Bibles and Shauna under their arms, waving goodbye.
	And that actually happened.
	In fact, I've written a whole book on this sort of thing, Frontline Behind Me Lines for Christ, on our 42 years of evangelism.
	These are just some of the evangelisms amongst terrorists.
	I've got testimony of testimony of opportunities to preach to communists, terrorists, revolutionaries, militants, radicals, rioters.
	We've had times when people have been shaking boxes, matches on their faces, saying, I'm going to necklace you, we're going to burn you alive, and things like this.
	But we have persevered, and God's given grace, wisdom, strength.
	I'm convinced missionaries can do far more for the security of our nations by evangelizing enemies than we can by going there, bombing them, and radicalizing more people and winning them more recruits.
	Oh, I absolutely agree. I love what you're doing, and what it reminds me of is that...
	Certainly in your life, you are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ.
	I think that is the biggest problem of the American church.
	People have been so browbeat about all this.
	Oh, we've got to be nice to everybody.
	We have to meet them where they are and all the rest of this stuff.
	No, you just need to tell the truth.
	And you need to say it not in a mean way necessarily, but you just simply declare the truth.
	And that is the key thing, and that's what Americans are afraid to do to the man.
	They've been shamed into silence.
	We've been shamed into the closet.
	While every kind of perversity is parading in the street here in the middle of Pride Month, we are shamed to say anything about that.
	And not necessarily in a condemning way, but, you know, to put out the gospel of Christ and sometimes call sin what it is.
	And that's what you have done, is to give people the gospel, to give them a hope in an area where they have no hope.
	You know, for all these guys who are terrorists, all these guys who are torturing people, I mean, it's just, for them, how are they going to know that tomorrow they won't be the ones that are sitting in the chair and having their fingernails pulled out?
	In fact, I point this out.
	I've designed a whole track specifically for terrorists, pointing out that every revolution is cannibalistic.
	They end up killing their own. Yes.
	And just think of, who is the hero of the revolution in Soviet Union?
	Leon Trotsky. And he literally got axed by order of Stalin.
	He got an ice pick in the head.
	He's buried in Mexico City.
	And this is what happens.
	You know, like an animal farm snowball, the hero of the revolution gets killed by the dogs who sit on him by Napoleon.
	And this is the way it goes.
	In Zimbabwe, the leader of the revolution, Josiah Tongaroa, the head of the Zimbabwe African Union Liberation Army, he gets murdered on Christmas Eve in Zimbabwe and opens the door to Mugabe becoming the first leader of Zimbabwe.
	And in South Africa, the leader of the Communist Party was Chris Harney, who gets murdered just the year before to enable not just Mandela to become president, because Chris Harney was very charismatic, a good speaker.
	I've debated him in public too.
	But to allow...
	Taubo Mbeki and Jacob Zuma to become the first successors to Mandela.
	Chris Honeywood had been a shoe-in, and he is so light, so charismatic, and he was the most powerful man, being the head of the Communist Party, head of the Mkuntui Siswi, which is the armed wing, the terrorist wing of the ANC. And so his assassination, which many in the ANC, including William Mandela, say was an inside job done by the ANC to get rid of him because he's too popular.
	Mm-hmm. Eduardo Manlani was the founder of the Filimo Communist Party in Mozambique.
	The main street in Mapuche is named the Eduardo Manlani Avenue, Boulevard Eduardo Manlani.
	Well, he was murdered so that Samoa Michel could take his place.
	And so it carries on.
	Every revolution, you can see the revolutions are cannibalistic.
	Do you know that Mao Zedong in 1966 began the Cultural Revolution by arresting the president of Red China and the head of the army?
	They were a troika. He was the chairman.
	The president and the head of the army of Red China were accused of treason.
	I mean, how is that even possible?
	And Mao Zedong seizes power and eliminates millions of people.
	And this is typical of communists.
	The second phase of the revolution, they always end up killing the revolutionaries like Stalin's show trials.
	He killed off the veterans of the Baltic Revolution.
	You see, people who do a revolution cannot be trusted because when you fail to fulfill your promises, they know how to overthrow a government.
	They're going to overthrow you. So the first people to get in the neck Literally.
	Yeah. It's the vanguard of the revolution.
	The vanguard of the revolution gets slaughtered in the second phase of the revolution.
	So I share these facts with the communists, and when they realize it, they start to understand, you know, like Mois Chombe of Congo as well.
	You know, he gets wiped out. The communists had a University training terrorists in Moscow called the Patrice Lumumba University.
	Patrice Lumumba was the leader of the Communist Revolution and he was murdered by his own in the Congo.
	And this is absolutely typical.
	When the people realize, you realize they're just using you like a pawn and you're going to be sacrificed for the good of the revolution soon.
	You start to get them realizing, you know, it's true.
	And when they understand the history and understand where this is going, many of these people are willing to turn.
	And many ex-communists have ended up being the best anti-communists, and they've been the best fighters in Renamo, the anti-communist resistance in Mozambique, or the UNITA anti-communist resistance in Angola.
	And so it is.
	When people understand how communists work, they get to realize they're going to shoot me in the back of the neck as well.
	Yes. I've got to get out now and be part of the resistance because if I stay, my days are numbered.
	And so... There are ways to persuade the communists, and when they get to understand, that you understand history, that also helps.
	I've had this before. When I was arrested in Mozambique in 1989, I was thrown in prison there, and quite an experience.
	There was a Machava security prison in Maputo, and I wake up to a horrible smell, and I feel something on my face, and I'm lying on a concrete floor, and there's a rat.
	Just about to show up, bibbling my nose.
	It smelled like he was coming from the sewers, which he had, I'm sure.
	And there was a hole under the door that rats could get in and out.
	So right there, I knew what I was in.
	Well, later that day, they came for me for interrogation.
	I'm dragged. They never let you walk.
	They dragged me down the hallway, a guard on each side, into, again, another one of these interrogation rooms that looked like a Hardware store.
	And the man behind the table said, I am the devil.
	And I said, you're not the devil.
	And he said, oh, I'm the devil.
	I'm not only a Marxist and a Leninist, I'm a Stalinist.
	I was trained in Czech Slovakia.
	So I respond, well, I'm a Christian.
	And he spat out, I hate Christians, but I mean, he spat it out with such venom.
	And how do you respond to that?
	Well, he then started to berate me for the evils of Christianity.
	And then he said, You know, Jesus Christ was the first communist.
	Jesus Christ taught from all according to his ability to each according to his need.
	So are you sure that Jesus Christ? That sounds like Karl Marx.
	We're in the Bible to get this. And then he carried on with, no, the first Christians were the first communists.
	In fact, anyone who refused to share their property was killed.
	And, you know, we are just enforcing what you read in the book of Acts, he says.
	So I said, well, if you read the book of Acts, you see, Anais and Sapphira were not killed by the apostles.
	They were struck dead by God himself.
	No human hand touched them because they lied to the Holy Spirit.
	And it was not that they weren't willing to share their property.
	It was that they lied and that they'd not lied just to man.
	They'd lied to God, to the Holy Spirit.
	And Anyway, I then went on and said, if Jesus Christ was the first communist and if the early church practiced communism, why do you ban Bibles?
	Why is it that I've got a smuggle Bibles and why do Bibles get burned?
	If this was true, you'd want to promote Bibles.
	And the man started to give me a lecture on how evil capitalism was.
	And he gave a tirade against Margaret Thatcher, who was Prime Minister in Britain at that stage.
	So I then gave a lecture about the French Revolution and explaining how secular humanism roped you in Voltaire, how they brought about a collapse of good standards for the poor and how the poor always benefit from Christianity and how the poor get poorer and are more oppressed under communism.
	And then the man gave me a lecture on dialectic materialism.
	And so I thought I can swap lectures all day.
	I love history. Much better than getting your fingernails ripped out and being electrocuted.
	I gave him a lecture on the Reformation.
	We went backwards and forwards about these things, and at the end he declared the interview over.
	It's been six hours to look at the clock on the wall.
	And it just shows if you know your history, you can engage communists.
	And communists love arguing politics and history and economics.
	So when you know that, it's much better.
	You'll keep your fingernails. You'll keep your...
	I'm much happier to debate the communists, and they're normally happy to debate.
	But if you don't have any intelligence, they'll start torturing them.
	Seriously, that's what happens.
	What about when you go to Islam?
	You described your situation with the communists and how they like to debate history and politics and maybe even religion.
	What about Islam, when you've had encounters that...
	Islam loves discussing religion.
	So again, you've got to know the Quran.
	And I learned the Quran not only from Christians who worked amongst Muslims.
	I went into the mosques and I asked the Muslims to train me.
	I went to Islamic Propagation Center and had them explain the Quran.
	And the first day, I didn't even ask any questions except to clarify things.
	And I learned a Muslim's perspective in Islam, which is different from a Christian like me explaining Islam to you.
	And so That was very helpful.
	So I first made sure I understood Islam pretty well.
	Then I went with a very experienced man, Karat Nils, on door-to-door evangelism in Muslim areas.
	He taught me how to reach Muslims well.
	And so what I've done is sometimes gone into mosques and asked the Imam if we could have a debate on Islam and Christianity, or comparing Jesus and Muhammad, or the Quran and the Bible, or how can we know that our sins are forgiven?
	How are your sins forgiven in Islam?
	How can you be right to God?
	How can you know you're going to paradise?
	And we discuss things like this.
	Sometimes we want to discuss, was Jesus crucified?
	Did Jesus rise from dead? Those are good debating subjects.
	So debates and discussions always help.
	Meeting people in their homes, they're willing to let you in normally.
	I can go to the Malay Quarter where it's 110 Muslim and mosques all over the place.
	And you come and knock on the door.
	I'd like to talk to you, but I'm a Christian.
	I'd like to talk to you about Islam and Christianity.
	Would you be interested in discussion?
	They often invite you in, give you tea, coffee, sit down and have a discussion.
	We've even organized Bible studies in mosques.
	Where we come and we say, okay, what does a Qur'an teach about this subject?
	And they'll explain what the Qur'an teaches in that subject.
	And then we'll explain what the Bible says about that subject.
	Then they'll explain what the Qur'an says about another subject.
	And so you've got, basically, it's an objective, constructive discussion.
	This is to understand one another.
	You tell me what the Qur'an teaches on sin, man, God...
	Heaven, hell, salvation, and so on.
	I'll tell you what the Bible does.
	And interesting discussions come out of it.
	And we've had people coming to us saying, you know, I'm from Saudi Arabia.
	This is illegal in Saudi Arabia.
	And they're so excited when you give them a Bible and they're like, can I have this?
	You know, this is illegal in my country.
	And they've got all the excitement of someone who's been given something that's suppressed and illegal.
	And I find the more from a hardcore Muslim country that come, the more open they are to the Gospel.
	When in another country, obviously in their own country, they wouldn't be able to do that.
	And so we have debates, we have discussions, and we meet people in their homes. And as long as you can talk intelligently and obviously understand Islam, we can get quite far. And I've got friends who used to be Muslims who've been converted to Christ, and it's wonderful.
	And people from Pakistan, people from Iraq, people from Syria, people from Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
	We've got a whole Bible college going up in northern Africa in an Arabic-speaking North African country, which is part of our William Carey Bible Institute.
	And we've got 13 students who came from a Muslim background, what we call a Muslim background believer, or MBB. And It's just wonderful.
	We had a while ago when we had six graduates finish the three-year program, and we had a graduation service.
	It was totally illegal, underground, and secret, but we were able to, through web platforms, able to have me still give a presentation at the graduation service remotely, and these people came from Unreached people, where it's totally illegal, and this was all done in a country where this would be completely illegal, Muslims are coming to Christ, and it's exciting.
	I guess that's the thing that surprises me, is that you would be able, because is it different...
	Different parts of Islam, because we look at it as monolithic, but of course you've got the Shia, and you've got the hobbyists, and the Sunnis, and all the rest of the stuff.
	There's a lot of different flavors of that.
	Is that why, in some of these, now you mentioned that you're still having to do some things underground, but I guess in some of these areas, maybe that's why the imam would be open to debate, or is it just because they're somebody that's from another country and they're not being watched, or...
	It's all of those things.
	And so what you find is a Muslim imam wants to win a Christian to Islam.
	And so this would be a great status symbol if he could persuade me to become Muslim.
	Now, he's convinced Islam is right.
	I know that Christians are right.
	But the fact that we're willing to, and we say, okay, let's make this even.
	You know, you explain what the Quran says, I'll explain what the Bible says.
	Now, he's convinced he's going to win you over.
	So his goal is to evangelize me for Islam, Dawah.
	And my goal is to share the gospel with him.
	And we know that actually, ultimately, it's not a decision.
	This is something the Lord does.
	And there's some good tools.
	One of them is More Than Dreams.
	And More Than Dreams has five Muslim conversions, true stories, done in a recreated form method showing actual testimonies of Muslims, how they came to Christ.
	I've got some booklets as well about how people came to Christ from Islam.
	And if you...
	Go to the people in a way of them being interested in a discussion and hopefully winning you to Islam.
	That's why I often portray myself as I'm a theological student and I'm a student of Islam.
	I'm interested in learning about Islam.
	Would you help answer my questions?
	And of course, many of my questions are going to cause doubts in their mind too, like how do you prepare your heart for prayer?
	And they happily tell you how they wash their hands and their ears and their nose and their Clean their feet and so on.
	And yes, but how do you clean your heart?
	I find it very hard to keep your mind.
	How do you wash your mind? And they get confused.
	And you ask questions such as, what can you tell me to convince me that the Quran is the Word of God?
	And it's because Muhammad said this.
	And how do I know that Muhammad is a true prophet of God?
	Well, because the Quran says yes.
	Well, isn't it circularism?
	I mean, how can I know the Quran is the Word of God?
	Are there any prophecies in the Quran about events far ahead?
	Tell them about some of the prophecies in the Bible.
	And then I've spoken to some of the top Muslim evangelists in the world, or debaters, like Ahmadidat, who's written scores of books, printed millions of copies.
	He's the founder of the Islamic Propagation Center National.
	So Ahmadidat, debating him, and he's filming this at the same time.
	What prophecies are in the Quran?
	Well, Muhammad prophesied that the Roman Empire would fall.
	But the Roman Empire fell before Muhammad was born.
	That's called history, that's not prophecy.
	And what miracles did Muhammad do?
	Well, let me go back to the first question.
	How do I know that Muhammad is a prophet of God?
	Dead serious, this is answer.
	He had a gap between his front teeth.
	And he had a mole. And this apparently, I think the mole was on his back, actually.
	So, you know, some dermatological problem and some dental problem, and that proves he's a prophet of God.
	But seriously, that's what he gave.
	Was there any miracles that Muhammad did, or any prophecies he gave?
	Well, in fact, there was, according to Ahmad Eder.
	I mean, remember, he's the top Islamic author.
	He's the founder of the Zilla Propagations Center National.
	When Muhammad was fleeing the soldiers of Mecca, he hid in a cave, and a spider spun a web over the cave mouth.
	And when the soldiers came past, they said, well, he can't be in there.
	And they went on. They said, that's it?
	A spider's web? I mean, that's the strongest you've got.
	And I mean, that's the answer he gave.
	Well, of course, I could say a lot more about how Jesus, from the Koran, the Koran acknowledges Jesus was born a virgin.
	He is holy, sinless, perfect.
	He is the Word of God. He is the Messiah.
	The Koran says this. I could quote chapter and verse on the stories about that.
	And Jesus has ascended into heaven, and he's coming again to judge the living and dead.
	What other prophets can he say this of?
	And, you know, just comparing Jesus with any other prophet already convinces.
	So we lay some foundations like this and discussions.
	And, you know, I'll make it sound easy, but of course it's hard because there's interruptions and they always want to say what they want to say before they listen to you.
	So you've got to listen to them first, ask questions.
	But I find asking, probing questions do help.
	How can you know for sure that you're going to paradise?
	Well, of course, there's only one way a Muslim can know for sure that he's going to paradise, if he dies in jihad, killing the infidel.
	But they can't say that to you.
	I mean, Muhammad himself said he didn't know what Allah would do with him on the Day of Judgment.
	So you ask them, how can you know for sure that you'll enter to paradise?
	And I don't know.
	How can Allah forgive your sins?
	And you know the answer I got from Ahmadinejad?
	Three times he rose his shoulders and his arms, hands up for it.
	And of course, as you mentioned, they'll say that Jesus was a virgin birth, a prophet of God, a Messiah, and all the rest is coming back, and yet they deny the cross, right?
	And so they deny the payment for sin.
	So, you know, how do they respond with that issue?
	With their arms up?
	Well, they deny the crucifixion of Christ based on an interpretation of one sora.
	There's one verse that says that Nabi Isa was not crucified, although it was made to appear so to them.
	Now, that's just one sora written by somebody who was not an eyewitness hundreds of years later.
	And yet, there's so many stories in the Quran that authenticate that the Bible is the Word of God, and that you mustn't dispute with the people of the book, and that the words of Allah cannot be lost or changed or corrupted, that Allah's words endure forever.
	So, on this basis, I'm able to make a strong case that the Quran claims to The Quran claims to be an authentication and a confirmation of the Bible.
	And Muhammad claims to be the last prophet, and he's confirming what all the other prophets said, including Mabi Isa, the prophet Jesus.
	So they're on the end of a branch, and they can't saw off the branch on the inside.
	The Bible does not depend on the Quran, but the Quran does depend on the Bible.
	We need to build on that. Because a Muslim cannot deny Jesus.
	He is a prophet of Islam.
	They must respect him.
	In fact, when they say Nabi Isa, they must add, peace be upon him, like they do about Muhammad.
	They might forget, but we can remind them.
	Because he is illustrious in this world and in the hereafter.
	And he is a sign for the nations, for all nations.
	Ahmadinejad would like to say, well, Jesus was a prophet to the Jews, but Muhammad is a prophet to all nations.
	But the Quran states that Jesus is a sign to all the nations.
	And so they cannot actually deny Jesus.
	Even just knowing the Quran is enough to make them see that Jesus, or Nabi Isa, as they call him, the Prophet Jesus, is not to be compared with any other.
	And he is perfect.
	Now, even using the Quran, I can lead them to points of seeing Jesus is more important than Muhammad.
	Do you know that Muhammad is mentioned four times in the Quran?
	Only four times. Jesus...
	By the name of Nabi Isa is mentioned over 80 times in the Quran.
	In fact, Mary is mentioned vastly more times than Muhammad as well.
	And so already you can see from the Quran itself the importance of Jesus and his mother and that Muhammad is not a major emphasis of the Quran.
	Now you get more on Muhammad, of course, in the Hadith, but the Hadith is not...
	As authenticated as the Qur'an.
	The Qur'an is others' words to us, according to them.
	And the Hadith is the teachings and the actions of Muhammad, mentioned by his followers.
	So the Hadith is secondary to the Qur'an.
	And we've gotten quite far with that.
	So I thought being white and Western, and it's kind of obvious, my complexion gives me away, that this would be a stumbling block to me evangelizing.
	But actually, it's not. In many ways, it creates interest.
	And I've found, even with the black people and with the Arab people, I'm a bit of an anomaly, a bit of a status symbol.
	I've got this foreigner, this guest, and they like to invite me in.
	And one thing we find that always works with Muslims, if you want to get an opening, is, can I pray for you?
	Is there anything that you need prayer for?
	And, you know, a person who said they know prayers to Muhammad haven't healed anyone, but many of them have great faith that Nabi Isa, Prophet Jesus, he can heal.
	I mean, there's no evidence anywhere that Muhammad healed anyone, but Jesus healed many people, and they know that even from the Quran.
	Now, when we come along and we say, can I pray for you, whether it's in a home or something, Muslims always come up with things that they need prayer for.
	Now, you pray, And when the prayer is answered, you can imagine how this really opens up people's hearts.
	And people's children have been healed from sickness.
	People have experienced all kinds of answers to prayer in the name of Jesus.
	And therefore, that's something...
	This is something you see in the frontiers of gospel work.
	I wouldn't advise this normally, but...
	Mark 16 speaks about when we work for God, He works along with us, and He will confirm the word with signs following.
	And so, remember, every promise in the Bible, every command in the Bible comes with a promise.
	And so, when the Lord says, I'll be with you always, it's in the context of, go into all the world and make disciples of all nations.
	And the Lord breathed in them and said, receive the Holy Spirit.
	You will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria, and to us from parts of the earth.
	When the Holy Spirit comes upon you.
	So the power is promised when we are fulfilling the Great Commission.
	I've seen miraculous healings.
	And I was in the Nuba Mountains of Sudan when I got stung by a scorpion.
	It was a little...
	Luminous, almost colourless scorpion with massive tail and small clippers.
	Those are the most deadly. And my left hand was poisoned, stung by the scorpion, and I could feel a poison working up my arm, heading towards my heart.
	Wow. And there was nothing for it except to call for the elders to pray for me.
	So Christians and missionary co-workers gathered around and prayed for me, and I felt the poison going down my arm and out through my fingertips.
	And the local Muslims saw it, and they saw the scorpion.
	He is stung by the scorpion, and that's a deadly scorpion, not the dark scorpions with the big clippers and the small tail.
	This is the light-colored scorpions, almost transparent scorpions with the big tail.
	They're the deadly ones.
	And they could see...
	What the Bible says that, you know, they'll be stung by scorpions and bit by snakes and it won't harm them.
	Well, we don't believe in doing this on a stage.
	We're not like those cults where we might play with snakes and things like this.
	But in the actual course of God's work and these things happen, the Lord has promised to intervene.
	And so, In ministry, in the frontiers of missions amongst unreached people's groups, I've seen answers to prayer.
	So I'm not a signs and wonders person.
	I believe the Bible is our authority, totally.
	But miracles happen in pioneer missions.
	Oh yeah, I've heard that many times.
	I'm not a signs and miracles person either, but yes, I've heard many, many reports of that, as you said, on the frontline missions.
	It truly is amazing.
	I could go on forever with you, but we're going to split this into two different interviews here.
	Tell people where they can find out about what you're doing at FrontlineMissionsSA.org.
	Is that the best place for them to find you?
	You've got so many different websites.
	I think you've got like 10 of them here.
	We'll put them in the video.
	The best one is FrontlineMissionSA.org.
	FrontlineMissionSA.org on the back of our book.
	Okay. FrontlineMissionSA.org.
	And you'll find us on Facebook as well.
	Frontline Fellowship with a badge, the sword, the word in Africa.
	You can see the sword, the word in Africa above me.
	That's our missions badge.
	One of the shields on the wall.
	And we've been going 42 years.
	You can email me at peter at frontline.org.za.
	Peter at frontline.org.za.
	That's my personal email. And you'll also see I'm busy on Facebook as well.
	We've got a bookshop.
	We provide a lot of our books by email.
	We've got e-books. We've got print-on-demand.
	So even if our postal service isn't behaving itself, we've still got ways of getting the materials to people.
	We send out emails.
	We send out audiovisuals.
	On the FrontlineMissionSA.org website, there's audiovisuals, presentations, transforming terrorists into evangelists.
	We've got on how to resist Marxist bullying tactics, exposing the whole cancel culture movement, which is nothing but cancel Christianity.
	That's the whole goal of cancel culture is communism.
	Yeah. And its goal is to cancel Christianity.
	That's the only thing that makes sense to the whole agenda.
	That's right. And of course, I've lived through several revolutions.
	So I've worked in 38 countries.
	I've traveled in 42 countries.
	I've worked in 38 countries, including eight wars.
	I've gone through three revolutions.
	I've been imprisoned multiple times in communist countries and arrested in a Muslim country as well.
	And I've got the stories in my book, Frontline Behind Enemy and Lies for Christ.
	We've got audiovisuals on our websites and articles on many of these issues that we're dealing with, videos that people can see.
	I help to produce Sudan, Hidden Holocaust and Terrorism and Persecution films, which expose a lot of what is going on in the field.
	And you can see videos on our website that even show some of the imprisonments and some of the announcements on the news broadcast about our imprisonments and testimonies of some of the combat that we're involved in at first.
	So that's all available on the FrontlineMissionSA.org website.
	I'd love to hear from some of the listeners and viewers.
	Yes. And of course, you always need workers.
	I'm sorry, what? We always need workers.
	We need volunteers. And if people are interested in short-term ministry or long-term ministry and would like to come and volunteer at the time, we have training programs here like the Great Commission course to enable people to learn Muslim evangelism firsthand in a peaceful area like Cape Town, where it's legal.
	Before we attempt to send anyone out.
	But we're in a port city that's cosmopolitan and people can practice evangelism here.
	So we use Cape Town as our training base for the Great Commission course, have the people hiking up and down Table Mountain and getting fit, night hikes, Bible smuggling drills in the forest at night.
	We've got hunter teams and we've got smuggling teams and If people are interested in ministering in restricted access areas, we've got the experience of 42 years and we'd love to train more people because I believe this is the way we will fulfill the Great Commission and we'll defeat many of the enemies is by getting into these areas and winning these people to Christ.
	And many are wide open and hungry and disillusioned.
	And the gospel is powerful.
	In fact, as I heard in Sudan, a man said after he got bombed, the Bibles of the Christians are more powerful than the bombs of the Muslims.
	And it's true. Yes, that's amazing.
	Now, let me just repeat one more thing.
	Your book that's about your life experiences there, Front Lines Behind Enemy...
	What was it?
	Front Line Behind Enemy Lines for Christ?
	Yeah, this is also printed on the e-book.
	Okay, good. That picture on the front is me in the Nuba Mountains, but you've got...
	440 pictures. It's a very well-illustrated book with thoughts of what's going on in the field.
	So if people are interested, this will give them an insight into what goes on in these areas and Well, I'm definitely interested.
	I'm definitely interested.
	Yes, thank you so much.
	It is fantastic talking to you.
	Again, FrontlineMissionSA.org, and that'll be kind of your entry point there.
	We'll have some of these links in the videos when we put them up as well.
	So thank you so much for joining us, Dr.
	Peter Hammond. I appreciate it.
	It's been amazing to talk to you.
	Thank you so much. Thank you, David.
	I appreciate the opportunity.
	God bless America. Thank you.
	God bless you. Well, that's it, folks.
	Thank you for joining us. Okay, that's...
	I'll put in the ending later on.
	You got that recorded? Okay, good.
	Thank you so much. That was an amazing story.
	I let that run for a while.
	If you've been exposed to logic by listening to The David Knight Show, please do your part and try not to spread it.
	Financial support or simply telling others about the show causes this dangerous information to spread farther.
	People have to trust me.
	I mean, trust the science.
	Wear your mask.
	Take your vaccine.
	Don't ask questions.
	Using free speech to free minds.
	It's the David Knight Show.
	Coming in now is Andrew Riddle.
	Joining us now is Andrew Riddle.
	He is a CEO of Liberation Technology Services, a company at the forefront of cloud hosting industry.
	And he's involved in cybersecurity.
	And he has contacted me.
	He wanted to talk about artificial intelligence and the threats to us.
	And they are tremendous threats to us.
	Thank you for joining us, Andrew.
	Well, thank you so much for having me.
	I'm really looking forward to the conversation.
	I am, too. And I've had people on many times talk about artificial intelligence.
	I had a guy who was with a military-industrial complex, and they were talking about the different modeling things that they were doing.
	And it was very, very interesting.
	He even had concerns about even though he felt that it was necessary in this arms race against China to have all this stuff He says well, I don't know how we actually once we turn over control and it's inevitable We're gonna turn control over in a war scenario. How do we stop it? How do we get control back?
	He said we don't know yet, you know And the question is how do we get control back from these things? I mean, let me as we start here Let me get your reaction to what I played earlier today. I'm sure that you've maybe seen the announcement About co-pilot from Microsoft that they're going to put artificial intelligence on your laptop It's going to constantly be taking screenshots of what you're doing and making assessments about what you want, you know, of course, to be your friend and your servant, and it will never violate your privacy.
	What do you think about that?
	Do you think anybody wants this?
	Do you think anybody believes those promises?
	Well, I think the scary fact of the matter is it's already happening.
	Microsoft is just, you know, openly acknowledging the fact that they're doing this, right?
	We see this with TikTok.
	We see this with Google.
	We see this with all these other companies that have integrated the AI and other, you know, data collection methods.
	You know, TikTok, a little known fact, They access every single app on your device.
	And so they're also looking at your banking apps, your financial apps, your health apps, and all these other things.
	But I think it is concerning whether they're publicly acknowledging it.
	Like Microsoft or, you know, covertly doing it.
	I think that it is very concerning because with that sheer amount of data, you know, the question lies, what will they be able to do with that, right?
	It's not just to make suggestions.
	You know, will they be able to then start subliminally targeting us with, you know, the obvious things like products and services, but, you know, will they be able to also start manipulating our behaviors, our actions throughout the day because they know how in a subconscious level we react to certain triggers and environments, you know, okay, they want everyone to perform
	action A, you know, they know if they hit us with the right messaging or visuals or audio or audible, you know, methods, you know, we'll react.
	Yeah, they call it nudging.
	You know, they know how to give you subtle pushes in different ways.
	They call it a nudge. And, you know, the whole artificial intelligence thing is based on scraping data from all over the Internet.
	So we know they're doing that. We know that everything you put out there on social media is available to any government agency to scrape or any company can scrape it there.
	So that part of it is not new.
	I guess when I looked at the Microsoft Copilot, I thought, oh, great, now I get my own Personal little Stasi spy.
	Before there was a large engagement from the human element of a platform that would have to say, okay, well, this either violates terms of service or, hey, we want to push this narrative and things like that,
	but we're essentially now handing all of the data and all of the control over to this And as you were saying just before the break, it isn't the Terminator AI that we all think of, but it is possible.
	You think ChatGBT launched less than a year ago, and the developments that we've seen in the space since then are...
	You know, what will this environment look like in 12, 24, 36 months?
	I think that's where we need to proactively start thinking and start planning because, yeah, we might not be able to put the genie back in the bottle once it's activated, especially if you give it a gun.
	Yeah, which they're doing.
	They're telling him to fly planes and drop bombs and here's a gun.
	You know, and speaking of that, there was an excellent novel that was written about 12 or 13 years ago by Daniel Suarez called Kill Decision.
	And it was about using AI and drones and how disruptive and revolutionary that was going to be to the military-industrial complex.
	And my son just went back, who told me about that years ago, and we listened to it years ago.
	And he went back and listened to it again.
	He said, you know, in that novel...
	What kicks it off is the AI's ability to look at a picture and to make assessments about what is in that picture, just as we saw demonstrated last week in the OpenAI, the chat 4.0, where everybody's focusing on the voice of Scarlett Johansson.
	But it really is concerning, even though we know that it is a demo and there may be some rigged aspects of it.
	It truly was pretty amazing what that was able to do.
	And as you point out, there have been massive leaps in what is the perceived capability of these systems.
	Yeah, you know, and we've already seen that technology really get involved in this election already.
	You know, in New Hampshire, there was the Joe Biden deepfake, where they were able to, you know, one of the Democratic challengers was able to persuade voters not to go out and vote or to alter their vote, because they got a phone call from Joe Biden.
	Right.
	And that's where it becomes so concerning, because there is very, there's next to no oversight in this space, aside from, you know, these technology companies saying, oh, well, we'll do better.
	But there's really no oversight in steps put in place ahead of the election to protect us against these types of threats.
	And, you know, it's one of those things, as we've seen in 2022 and 2020, you know, trying to fix something after the fact, the courts, the public opinions, you know, they're not going to deal with that.
	So, you know, there's a chance that we could see a deepfake give out false information, have a impact in the election, and everyone will just kind of throw their hands up and say, well, we'll try not to let this happen again.
	But the outcome of the election is still decided.
	And I think it's important, you know, we've seen lies, manipulation, propaganda, it's always been there as part of an election.
	I think what is different about this, and I've mentioned this from the very beginning with artificial intelligence, even when we had the chatbots that were hallucinating with stuff.
	Immediately, even though they were coming up with these wild scenarios, people started backfilling and saying, well, maybe this thing is really aware, you know, and anthropomorphizing it and giving it credibility instead of looking at this and saying, this is a bunch of crap.
	My first thing when I interacted with it, I started talking to it about climate change or about the Pfizer shot or something like that.
	Of course, it kind of just shut me down.
	And so I was like, okay, I get this.
	It's just another control mechanism.
	But most people, I think the real danger...
	is the confidence that people put in this.
	You know, I was trained as an engineer.
	We were always told from the very beginning, garbage in, garbage out.
	Don't trust this just because you've got a computer printout.
	Don't trust it just because it's a model from somebody.
	Because you can make the computer say anything that you want.
	It's not necessarily right.
	And people shut down that critical thought.
	And I think that's one of the most deceptive And dangerous things about artificial intelligence.
	I think that's why it's important to talk about it.
	But let me ask you, you know, you mentioned earlier about putting the genie back in the bottle.
	What can we do and what can we do proactively?
	Because this stuff is rapidly evolving and people are looking at it in terms of we typically react after the fact instead of saying, well, I know where this is going, so let's put in some safeguards about this.
	Is there anything that we can or should be doing in your opinion?
	So I think that we, from a market perspective, can really dictate the direction that AI goes.
	You know, if products are being pushed, you know, without your consent, without the ability to opt out, then my recommendation is vote with your dollars and don't support those platforms, right?
	The AI that we see today is just a tool.
	And so it is as good or as bad as those wielding it.
	And so at the end of the day, if Google is saying, hey, you're going to accept Gemini, Gemini is everywhere, same with Copilot, then use a different browser, one that is not forcing an AI on you.
	And if we see hundreds of millions of Americans start to Change their behaviors.
	Well, then those companies will start to reassess the implementation and how they're looking at AI, not as something that necessarily has to be pushed on every single person, but something that individuals have the ability to opt into and to utilize, right? You know, it's one thing if you log in to chat GBT and type in prompts and get responses.
	That is an opt-in But to say, you know, we're going to put an AI into the search engine and it's going to track everything that you do, filter everything that you see, present the narrative in the stories that we want you to see, then we can't support that.
	I think oftentimes people think about making an impact in this nation as something they only do every two years in an election.
	But we have the ability to vote with our wallets and vote with our feet every single day.
	And if we actually get intentional about that, this is still very much a capitalistic society.
	And those companies will come to a stark reality very, very quickly.
	Right. I agree. I really endorse that, what you just said.
	We need to give them the Bud Light treatment, you know, and boycott them.
	And, you know, so often we look at things and say, well, you know, I know they're going to be using this to mine data.
	I know they're going to use it for anticipatory intelligence and geospatial intelligence and all these other things as part of the surveillance state.
	Can we get the politicians to put in some legislation that's going to block all that?
	That isn't going to happen, most likely.
	Yeah. They haven't even addressed Section 230 in re-evaluating the broad protections against lawsuits with many of these tech companies.
	Plus, you look at it, Google, AWS, and some of the other big players, those are the biggest donors in elections almost year after year.
	So I think...
	What I've come to the realization, the Silicon Valley companies are going to do everything that they can to keep the Democrats in power.
	That's because they know that there's at least a chance, especially under Trump, that Republicans will take up this issue and pass legislation to balance out the playing field.
	They're going to fight like hell to keep their open playground for as long as possible.
	I think they play that game on both sides, though.
	I mean, we just saw what Speaker John's, I call him Machiavellian Mike, what he just did about FISA. You know, if we think that we're going to stop anything, certainly at the federal level, people just need to look at, you know, that April 20th, where, that 420, what was he smoking?
	Where he... I think he was smoking rolled-up 100s that he got from Silicon Valley and the intelligence community and the military-industrial complex for their wars for the Pfizer expansion because he extended it and he expanded it.
	And so these people are not...
	Open to shutting this down.
	I mean, he got $20 million in his first quarter as, first full quarter as speaker.
	And so, you're right.
	They're giving them money.
	And I think the most effective thing that we can do, I think what is important for grassroots change, is to expose artificial intelligence for what it is.
	It's artificial. It's fake, as I've been talking about this.
	It's biased. Exactly.
	It's got bias built into it.
	Yeah. Yeah.
	And we've seen the kind of toxic bias in culture via the Twitter files, right?
	If it is that bad at Twitter at the time, who's to say it's not as bad or worse at Google or AWS and Microsoft?
	And so you have to look at that and understand that bias.
	And I think that's why we see the onslaught of attacks from every single direction against Donald Trump.
	Because at the end of the day, they realize Donald Trump is one of those few politicians that is harder to manipulate.
	You do have the career politicians like Johnson, like McCarthy, where they're pretty predictable.
	But then you throw some of these other elected officials in, and there's more of a chance, not saying they will 100%, but there's a higher chance that they will take up the issues with Section 230.
	And that's what we have to hope for and to also push on our elected officials to do.
	Yeah, I think that is, I would agree with you, that Trump is unpredictable.
	I don't necessarily expect him to keep any of his promises.
	You got betterment in there, too.
	And, you know, we are seeing an age of, you know, elected, some elected, not necessarily following the standard playbook.
	I was actually surprised.
	Pure entertainment. I agree.
	I was absolutely surprised.
	You know, the Turks and Caicos, where they've now arrested five Americans because they found a bullet in their suitcase, not a gun, but a bullet, and they're going to give them a mandatory minimum of 12 years.
	They had a congressional delegation go down there.
	Fetterman was one of them. I thought, what is going on?
	I mean, did he get his mind back?
	What is happening with this guy?
	He seems to have completely changed for the better in many different ways.
	I don't know. I haven't seen everything that he's done.
	I'm not endorsing Fetterman.
	But I was surprised. He did the right thing.
	And look, I want to give people credit whenever they do the right thing, wherever they are.
	But I agree with you.
	I think the key thing...
	We have to get people to understand some basic values.
	They have to be as opposed to the surveillance state as much as they are to grooming of kids with this transgender thing.
	If we want to get them to reject this stuff like they rejected Bud Light.
	We have to have them as much in favor of privacy and free speech as they are in favor of parental rights and things like that.
	So the problem is the reason people are not pushing back against it, A, they don't understand the danger of it.
	B, they don't understand how deceptive it is.
	And C, they don't really embrace the values of privacy.
	They're not opposed to the surveillance state as much as they need to be.
	They don't understand the dangers of that.
	I think that's one of the key things.
	And I agree with you.
	I think we're not going to be able to get the federal government to do anything.
	But we can have a tremendous amount of power if we can muster public opinion to support the good things and to oppose the bad things and just to be revolts by this as much as we are by Dylan Mulvaney.
	We should be revolts.
	Yeah, well I think that it's a very interesting situation.
	That's exactly why we founded Liberation, to protect people's data, to restore their right to privacy, to no longer collect, monitor, and monetize their information and online habits.
	But, you know, you look at this and I think that there is a real wave because we have to think about it in a larger scope.
	The left has been activated and mobilized, you know, pushing these ideologies for over 20 plus years, you know, with Soros, Arabella, and all of these other institutions.
	You know, conservatives, we've actually been reengaged for only about three and a half, four years at this point.
	And so, you know, we are over a decade behind, but can quickly make up the ground. And, you know, for the average everyday American, you know, most of these issues don't impact us in our homes, right? But we do see that it is, in my opinion, kind of causing a degrading societal impact and moving us away from the founding principles of this nation.
	And so it might not impact you every single day, but that does not mean you should sit on the sidelines. Like, let's be honest, you look at the kids at Columbia and NYU, they probably couldn't even point out Gaza on a map if they tried.
	But they have this tendency of mobilization that they are being fed, I think, garbage information, but that is still causing them to be mobilized and getting out and spreading You know, exercising their First Amendment rights to a degree and, you know, trying to impact political change.
	And so on the Christian and conservative side, the libertarian side, we have to realize that, you know, we can't sit idly by and think that Donald Trump is going to save us or the Republican Party is going to save us.
	us know it's going to take every single one of us to be activated 15 minutes a day whether it's through talking to your neighbors or you know spending your dollars with aligned companies.
	I agree.
	And that's how we actually save this nation.
	Yeah.
	It's a small thing.
	It's going to be from the bottom up you know it's not going to be from the top down and it's going to be being an awareness that the little things that you do as you point out talking to your neighbor getting them disavowed from this almost a superstitious awe of what artificial intelligence is.
	I've got an email question that was sent to us.
	It says, do you think that, this is from John, he said, do you think the AI is as good as it seems?
	And I've talked about that a little bit.
	You know, what is your assessment of this as somebody who's in cybersecurity?
	Tell us, you know, exactly what, I read an article yesterday about a guy who said, I try to explain this to people, and he said, the way I look at it, he said, it's like a matrix.
	He said, it doesn't even understand a question.
	You know, it doesn't know that it's getting a question.
	It just looks at those words and it kind of processes that in a language model.
	And then it compares that to other matrices and tries to come up with the best fit.
	And that's how it does it from his explanation.
	And so it's kind of a different way of programming than most of us are thinking about, like some kind of...
	It's a procedural if-then statement.
	It's comparing these different massive amounts of data that it's gotten.
	It's comparing that to what you're asking it to come up with a question.
	But it's not really thinking.
	It's not really understanding.
	It's just kind of, you know, comparing this stuff at a very, very fast rate.
	Is that, in your understanding, is that correct or am I wrong?
	Is there a better way to look at this?
	How would you describe that?
	Yeah, I think that's a pretty fair way to describe it.
	It's basically taking a massive amount of data and looking for similar answers that have been rated highly by previous users.
	And so that's how it's...
	Taking information from past experiences and past responses and then saying, okay, well, based on this, it's a 99% match to a previous question.
	That person liked it, so I'm going to give that to you.
	That's a very rudimentary way of thinking it.
	The scale is massive, but you also have to remember, AI is really in its infancy still.
	You know, and you think about everything that it can do today, you know, in some ways, I guess, what your listener was asking, I would ask them, in what regards, right?
	You know, if it's Google Gemini's ability to generate an image off of a prompt, I would say it's an F, because I'm not aware of a PowerPoint.
	Hope ever being, you know, in charge of the church or, you know, an African-American female being a founding father.
	So, you know, I give them an F, but, you know, for AI's ability to maybe identify underlying health risks in individuals or being able to help synthesize a large amount of data into a simple synopsis, I think that it is a great tool.
	And I think that you have to look at it not just as this one giant kind of instance, but there are different use cases, and I think ultimately the folks that are behind it and the ways that it's being implemented, because it is just a tool, really help answer that question.
	I agree. Yeah, when you talk about something like, you know, the racial misappropriation, I guess we call it, of Gemini, that was a wonderful thing for people to see, because when you're talking about something that is political, something where they can put in a bias, they put it in. And people need to be able to see that, and just one of those pictures is worth a thousand words.
	But they did thousands of pictures of that kind of nonsense.
	And I think people, that's, I think, one of the most effective ways to show how they can build bias into this.
	Now, when you're talking about something like building a circuit or doing some programming or something like that, they're not trying to build a bias into it yet.
	And so for those types of things, it could be very, very useful.
	And if they didn't put that hand-picked bias into some of this other stuff, it might be a lot more useful for those other things.
	But people, it's a warning to people that be careful, use this at your own risk, because especially when it comes into anything that is political, they are going to be inserting those biases.
	They pay people a lot of money to insert those biases and to, you know, I guess, wait a different set of answers and different questions.
	Yeah, and I'll get to that in a second, but I think I just thought of one great example in how we use AI to benefit the individual, but if they elect to take advantage of it, we have a product called Liberation Campaign, and it's an alternative...
	To MailChimp and Constant Contact for those that don't want to fight their email marketing platform to land in the inbox.
	And so we have two different tools, one that looks at a subject line and one that looks at the actual content of your email and it will say, hey, we know what Gmail is flagging, what their AI is flagging as spam and putting down into the undelivered space or Yahoo and all those kind of things.
	And it says, hey, here's your score, right?
	Here's how you can improve it to get around Google and Yahoo's and Microsoft's spam filters.
	And so that, I think, is a great example.
	And, you know, it's one of those things.
	It's unbiased. Here's the data.
	You can use it. You cannot use it.
	I've heard from so many people, though, that are like, I'm hearing back from folks that I haven't heard from in over a decade or in, you know, a year, five years.
	And so it's amazing that it's reaching their inbox and they're getting, you know, 40, 50, 60% open rates and all that.
	And they're like, I had no idea that a tool like this existed.
	But, you know, going back to what you were just saying.
	I mean, it's to say it's kind of like electronic measures and then countermeasures and then countermeasures.
	They're going to be a constant back and forth to try to stay one step ahead of their censoring algorithms.
	But that's really good. I like the fact that you're doing that because we know that they try to shut down our reach in so many different places and in so many different ways.
	Yeah, we saw it with the RNC in 2022's election where their deliverability rates fell to about 30%.
	That means 70% of the folks that have signed up to receive their emails aren't getting any sort of information from them.
	I was speaking with another Christian group, and they were just put on notice and paused.
	They were sending 10 million emails a month.
	Almost daily. And they were put on notice.
	They weren't given a reason.
	They were just kind of told terms and conditions.
	And it went into a long review process.
	And you have to look at that and really start to say, okay, well, if these technology companies have a bias and they're using AI, which is able to detect, flag, and suspend without any sort of human intervention, how can that impact our upcoming election?
	And you look at Gemini being implemented into the entire Google ecosystem.
	So your email, your Microsoft files, or excuse me, your Google files, your YouTube, all these different things, Gemini is now integrated as of last week into everything.
	Right. And you start to think about it.
	There's over two billion people that visit that homepage every single day.
	Right. You know, if they start saying, well, if you're conservative because we have access to your voting and political registrations, um, You know, we're going to make it really hard for you to find your voting precinct.
	But if you're a Democrat, every time you log on to our homepage, we're going to say, you haven't voted.
	Go vote. Go vote. Go vote.
	Find your location. It's right here.
	Why aren't you doing this?
	Hey, pop-up reminder. You're driving by your polling location.
	You need to go and do this right now.
	And, you know, they can do that.
	We just had a guy who got a jail sentence because he did it as a joke.
	Oh, if you're a Democrat, make sure that you vote on Wednesday or whatever.
	And there was a black woman, I guess, no problem because of Gemini.
	There's a black woman who did the same joke in the opposite direction.
	If you're a Republican, don't forget to vote on Wednesday or whatever.
	They sent him to jail. They gave her a pass.
	You mentioned MailChimp.
	And we started our experience with MailChimp with this show.
	I know I'm on the list.
	We started to put our, we got an account, we set the thing up, we started loading in our contact list, and they shut us down even before we were able to do our first email.
	They shut us down. It's absolutely amazing the amount of censorship that is out there, the amount of profiling and information that is out there already.
	But yeah, we can't even use it to get started.
	Yeah, and then Google and Yahoo implemented new That's right.
	You know, they're going to shut it down with the AI because they have a near 100% success rate if they decide to do something like that.
	And so you think about it back to the 2020 election, it was something like 14% of surveyed Democrats said that if they would have known about that story and about the allegations, they would have never voted for Joe Biden.
	And so you look at it right there, that one action, that one suppression of valid information, you know, even though they labeled it misinformation, You know, that outcome was decided by Google and Twitter and those folks because those Democrats would not have voted, Joe Biden would not have won, and we would, I think, be in a very different position, you know, today.
	Yeah, oh, absolutely. Yeah, your company is going to really be vital, I think, in terms of getting around this, because, you know, we've had this competition, and in the free market, what people say on social media was just too damaging for their professional journalists and everything.
	That's why they began the massive censorship, the shadow banning, the canceling, and all the rest of the stuff that we saw on social media.
	Yeah, and you know, when you think about social media, like, I agree, there's There shouldn't be blatant misinformation, right?
	Saying go vote on Wednesday when your election day is on Tuesday.
	That's not information we need out on the internet.
	Granted, if someone does that, everyone should be treated equally.
	There should be a fair level of judgment on that.
	But at the same time, a lot of these technology companies are suppressing valid alternative information, the other side of the coin kind of concept where you saw during COVID, there were Harvard and Stanford rated doctors that were saying, or that were getting completely censored.
	And they were putting out peer reviewed data and they were just like, nope, that's misinformation.
	No, that's just an alternative view and an alternative opinion.
	And that's the whole concept that our founding fathers laid out when they wrote the First Amendment.
	The ability for each and every one of us to hear information and make our own informed decisions.
	They're removing that ability for us to think critically, I believe.
	Yeah, they don't want any debate and they haven't wanted any debate on climate stuff.
	And we saw the same thing happen again with COVID. So, you know, when we look at this, the...
	The interesting thing about all this is the fact that they have a monopoly and that they've been granted this de facto monopoly, but in many ways it's explicit, isn't it?
	And now, as I mentioned earlier, we've got Sam Altman and a lot of these companies because they do so much data scraping.
	They use these massive GPUs.
	That's why this pattern matching has got to be super fast.
	Tremendous power requirements.
	You've now got these big data companies that are going out to, they're creating their own power plants, their own nuclear power plants, because they understand that our government is trying to shut down power generation.
	But they're going to be essentially allowed to have, I think, a monopoly on power, electrical power, not just political power, and not just a monopoly on speaking.
	They're actually going to have a monopoly now, I think, on electrical power generation if they continue to shut down all of our different power stations.
	What do you feel about these monopolies?
	It's actually a global issue.
	You know, in 2021, we saw it.
	Singapore shut down.
	Ireland shut down.
	2022, I believe, South Africa shut down.
	You know, there are parts of the United States where they're just saying you can't build any more data centers because they're unable, you know, the local municipalities, the power companies, they're not able to build.
	Power plants fast enough.
	Right now, they only account for about 3% to 5% of power consumption here in the United States.
	but the way that they're starting to build these facilities with AI in mind and just larger and larger and more ever-consuming kind of concepts, you know, yeah, we're running out of power availability in the grid for new data centers. And so, yeah, the, you know, Microsoft is talking about building mini miniature nuclear reactors next to their data centers. You know, we have some really interesting things that, you know, we'll have to come back on and share when it's
	It's officially public, but we're kind of going the opposite way.
	We're saying we can actually do this more efficiently, build and operate data centers, and it's by just looking at it through a slightly different lens.
	Instead of us having to build giant nuclear reactors, we can actually operate unintentionally a more green operation because we just strip out all the wasteful components of a data center.
	Yeah, it's just a brute force aspect of it.
	And of course, one of the ways they want to sell CVDC... Is to say, well, we're going to use less power than the crypto stuff.
	Venezuela is concerned because with their small grid that they've got there, even though they jumped on the cryptocurrency thing in 2020, they just put out a thing saying, we're banning crypto mining because it uses too much power.
	So some of these things are viewed by the regime as bad because it's a competition to their CBDC. Do not use the power for cryptocurrency.
	But yes, if you want to use it to spy on people...
	If the NSA wants to keep a dossier on everybody and store everything that everybody's had and do it in the desert, that's fine.
	They can use as much power and water as they want.
	And if these crypto companies want to do it, we'll allow them to build whatever kind of power supply plant they want, and we'll give them those kinds of powers, and we won't second-guess their power generation plan.
	I mean, can you imagine the kind of permitting that anybody else would have to go through?
	Yeah. But I think they're going to sweep all that stuff away for Sam Altman and their friends and this crony capitalist society, I think.
	Yeah, and, you know, it's just we see the space doubling almost every two and a half years, which blows past, you know, traditional economic models, which say it should double every five years.
	And so, you know, we are in this kind of interesting paradox, but at the same time, There has to be a demand for all of that compute and all of that information that is being generated by these data centers.
	And so it's simply a matter of fact.
	If you don't like what's going on, stop giving them your money.
	It's pretty simple.
	they can't build massive data centers if the population is starting to come back and saying, well, we don't want your AI in every single aspect of our lives, so we're going to go and do business elsewhere. Well, then the demand drops off, and then the financing drops off, and then they stop building these data centers. You saw Amazon actually halt many of their projects over the course of the last two years because they saw that decrease in demand.
	Mm-hmm.
	And I think it's encouraging for us to look at the amount of impact that we can have.
	When you look at the agenda to replace all internal combustion engines and to ban them, right?
	And we're going to make everybody drive an EV, even though they don't have enough power to drive everything, right?
	I've always said that to people.
	It's like, fine, I don't care what you drive.
	The government cares what you drive.
	And even if you get an EV, they're going to cut down the power grid so that you won't be able to drive it.
	a battery to back them up that type of thing but as we look at that people are saying well you know I've got issues with the range I've got issues with the expense I can't really afford the expense of this people were just not buying them for whatever reason yeah and so the marketplace has really in this one area that they have pushed so hard that they have subsidized trillions of And they have wanted, since I was in high school and they had the first Earth Day, they want to get rid of the private car.
	And they've pushed this agenda so much, and yet people have said, no, we're not going to go any further.
	And the companies that were on board with all that...
	Because they just want to make money.
	They want to have the favor of the government.
	And so they were all on board with that.
	They were realizing that, hey, first of all, they're losing money in unbelievable amounts.
	And it will be the end of the road for Ford and the rest of these Mercedes and the rest of these car companies if they decide that they really want to compete on this EV with China.
	Because China has been given, dealt all the cards in terms of cheap energy, in terms of minerals that they have, in terms of cheap labor.
	But you also still have, you know, buildings falling over sitting vacant in China.
	Just because China is doing it does not mean it's done well or done with a purpose, right?
	At the end of the day, what you're describing is capitalism 101.
	You know, I do still believe, though, you know...
	The diversification of your power generation and everything like that.
	If you want to slap a little turbine on your house, great.
	If you want to put a solar panel on top of your house, great.
	I think it needs to be made available for the consumer to decide in free will.
	I don't think some of the aspects of green agenda are necessarily a bad thing.
	But I think where it's being, when it's mandated, that's where it completely steps over the line.
	That's when it really infringes not only on our liberties, but the concept of capitalism as a whole.
	Diversification is never a bad thing. Having electric cars, for those that it suits them, great.
	That is their decision. If they just drive five miles up the road every single day and they're just putting it around, Great. And EV is a great option for them, right?
	That's right. You know, it makes more oil available for my vehicle, right, and more gasoline.
	So, you know, I think that diversification is not a bad thing.
	I don't think that, you know, on many of these issues, there has to be a hard...
	I think that the capitalistic model will always reign true, whether it's in technology or automobiles and everything else.
	And so that's what we're really trying to do at Liberation, is create that diversification for folks that want to get off of GoDaddy, that want to get off of Google Cloud, that want to get off of Gmail and Constant Contact and MailChimp.
	We've built a lot of those everyday tools so that You know, you can make your own decision.
	You know, if you want the AI spying on your life and making every suggestion for you, great.
	But if not, you can come over to us.
	That's right. I agree. Yeah, technology is a tool that can be used, good or bad.
	And if people have got a choice, and if it's not centrally planned and centrally controlled, that's where the danger comes in.
	As you're pointing out, you know, China's poor construction, the building's falling over.
	That's part of the crony capitalism, the central planning and that type of thing.
	And it's what we see being pushed towards us in many aspects of our life.
	They don't want to have that diversification. It's like, well, if you want to have a gas range, no, you can't have that. You're going to have only what I say.
	So we've got our government is out there now trying to design things and push an agenda.
	I agree. You know, if you've got solar panels to get off of the grid, hey, that's super.
	It's going to be more expensive to do that.
	But, of course, certain things like privacy and independence are going to come at a cost, and people can make that decision.
	And we should have access to a lot of different types of technology.
	It's the governments that want to dictate to us you will have one solution, and that's the only thing that you'll have.
	That's the telltale sign.
	Being a former politico, being a former federal employee serving at the White House for four years, you know, you see all the time these folks come in and say, Realistic, unrealistic timelines.
	And so I think that's really what it is, right?
	You know, if you were Gavin Newsom and you're saying, we're going to do 100% electric in the state of California, then you need to be realistic.
	Okay, by 2400, well, that's our goal, right?
	Like setting it out long enough so that you have time to build the infrastructure and everything like that.
	They can't even finish an interstate in that amount of time, let alone an overhaul of their entire electrical grid.
	So the initiative is doomed before it even gets launched.
	That's the good news. The bad news is there's going to be an awful lot of wealth transferred to his pals.
	Which might be the actual goal and all that stuff anyway.
	So what can the average American do to protect themselves against this kind of surveillance?
	You've got some tools that you have there at Liberation.
	We've got a lot of great tools.
	You know, we've got an option if you want to move your website directly.
	If you want to get an email with us, if you want to get off of Microsoft Teams or Google Workplace, store your video files, replace Zoom.
	We've got a lot of great tools there.
	We've got an alternative to MailChimp and Constant Contact, to GoDaddy and Wix website builder.
	We've really focused on what does the everyday man need.
	And we're zero-knowledge, so we do not mind, monitor, or monetize anyone's information.
	But it's not just about We're good to go.
	Since this movement really started, there are a lot of products and services out there now that are ideologically aligned with, you know, the more conservative values.
	And, you know, they're better, or they're, I would oftentimes say, equal or sometimes even better than what we see coming out of Silicon Valley.
	And so if this matters to you, instead of, you know, sitting there being upset, uh, About, you know, the way that this nation is going and Google spying on you and all of that.
	Take five minutes and sign up for an alternative, right?
	Start taking action and control of your life.
	Start taking the reins back and don't let technology companies and the government make those decisions for you.
	But if you're happy with it, keep doing what you're doing.
	That is your own prerogative and decision.
	If you like being controlled and manipulated, that's fine.
	But we want to stand here as an alternative that will protect your ideology and your values.
	Yeah, usually it's coming from their angle.
	It's not that we're dissatisfied.
	They just don't like me.
	They shut me down.
	So I'm really happy that you're putting this type of thing out there.
	I think it's very important. I think it's going to increasingly be spreading out to all kinds of people, even people that don't have a program that they do on a regular basis.
	Years ago, we had George Gilder, and he wrote a book, Life After Google.
	And he said, you know, I think this whole model of Google, and he called the people in Silicon Valley, he called them neo-Marxist.
	And he said, you know, I think their whole business model is flawed.
	And he said, I think that there's going to be a marketplace for people who don't add privacy on as an afterthought.
	They don't put it on as a bag on the side.
	It is fundamental to the way the product is designed.
	Is that kind of your approach to what you're doing?
	Exactly. And, you know, what we're really trying to do is just restore common sense into the marketplace, right?
	Should we, as a provider, be spying and reselling your information without your real consent, right?
	Yeah, we all accept the terms and conditions, but no one actually realizes what rights we're giving up there.
	You don't read those things, and then they change them, and you're in the middle of doing something, and you've got to check the box, and you don't read them.
	By the time you would finish it, they would change it all over again, those 100, 200-page documents.
	And I think that it's right.
	We're just serving that alternative because they are so big that they can be toppled without much effort.
	You take Google, they're making over $150 billion annually off of data monetization.
	If the U.S. government comes in and says, hey, You can't just steal people's data and sell it to anyone anymore.
	Well, they're going to really have to rethink their model, and they might have grown too large to support themselves.
	And so, hypothetically, the giant will tumble and it'll come down hard.
	Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a very dangerous thing that these people are putting together.
	The people that are pushing artificial intelligence, they're also pushing universal basic income.
	They see that as integral to their success as they see the necessity for having their own nuclear power plant.
	To run their GPUs and stuff like that.
	And this is something that I've seen.
	I remember when Bloomberg was running for office, and I talked about this yesterday, so I won't go into detail on it, but he was talking about how, yeah, we have to have universal basic income.
	That's when he trashed the farmers and stuff.
	But he was talking about the agrarian versus the industrial revolution, and he said, now the smart ones of us are trying to take everybody's jobs.
	And that's exactly what Sam Altman is saying.
	And you've got in the UK, you've got Jeffrey, was it Jeffrey Hinton, I think?
	They called him the godfather of AI, but I had not seen his name before.
	But he was there doing the same thing in the UK that Sam Altman is doing here, saying we've got to hook universal basic income in here because we were going to be intruding into so many different spaces that this is the way that we keep society from turning on us.
	What do you think about that aspect of it?
	Well, I think that it goes back to the fact that, you know, it is another tool and mechanism of control, right?
	It's plain and simple.
	If we allow for them to continue to take more and more and, you know, reduce the diversification in a space or in a market, you know, that's where things get really hairy.
	And, you know, The next step, in my assumption, would be they just put AI in control of this entire government, right?
	And I'm sure the Democrats would love that because then they wouldn't have to listen to Joe Biden stumble through his speeches anymore.
	But, you know, that is kind of the trajectory that they're trying to take us down, where, you know, would I be surprised in the next three to five years to hear Democrats calling for AI to run many aspects of the government?
	No. I wouldn't be surprised if they do it before this election cycle is over.
	And I think that's one thing we have to really be concerned about.
	If they say, well, we can have objectivism, we can have an objective judge and a jury, so we just make the AI the judge and the jury.
	That's why people need to understand the bias and how easily it can be built into the artificial intelligence, I think.
	Right, because with the AI, the general information models that we have today, they're just large kind of guidelines.
	A lot of data and then the bias that was built into it by the people that founded and constructed these models.
	Mm-hmm. You know, those are biases.
	The next step is, you know, it becomes a sentient, self-aware instance, and then we're in Terminator land.
	So, you know, you really have to wonder how far are we willing to go?
	How much of the genie are we allowing out of the bottle before we start saying...
	Okay, let's take some time, reassess this, right?
	You know, they want to implement AI so it can replace the workforce.
	I heard of one company who's massively integrating AI, and they're reducing their workforce by about 20% annually.
	So in five years, they're going to be down to an absolute skeleton crew.
	And then, yeah, that universal basic income becomes a requirement because it's now welfare.
	Because no one is employed.
	Because AI has been integrated strictly for profits into every single business.
	And many of the entry-level and mid-level jobs have been just completely replaced.
	It is a massive wealth transfer.
	And in order for them to do that, they have to make us dependent on them.
	And so you're right.
	It is welfare. And that's the problem with all kinds of welfare.
	It always is masked.
	As if it were compassion.
	But it's always ultimately about dependency and creating that, making people helpless and dependent on the government, and you lose your skills to be able to feed yourself.
	It's kind of feeding people by hand the same way that you would tame a wild animal.
	Yeah, and you think about universal basic income, and I would question your listeners to really explain how does it really differ from the ideology of Lenin and Stalin's communism, where everyone is equal, everyone is taken care of, everyone gets money and the profits and rewards of the economy.
	And so from that concept...
	And then, remind me again, you know, the USSR fell because it ran out of money, because the oligarchs took everything, consolidated, created a population that could barely afford to feed themselves.
	Yeah, I agree.
	And yeah, it has failed time and time again.
	You know, slapping lipstick on a pig does not make it a new concept.
	It's just, you know, the same pieces of history repeating themselves over and over again just under a new name.
	I agree. Yeah, that was really actually the reason why George Gilder called them the neo-Marxists.
	He said Karl Marx believed with the Industrial Revolution that they had infinite material capacity.
	They could manufacture anything that they wanted to.
	So the only thing that was left was, how do we distribute this, right?
	That's why you have the redistribution of wealth at the center of it all.
	And he said, and that's the conceit of these people in Silicon Valley.
	They believe that they have unlimited material resources, that they can manufacture anything.
	And all they have to do is figure out how to reallocate that.
	But their goal is in order to pacify us so they can continue on with their game.
	And that's the thing that is really different about it that we hadn't seen in America prior.
	You know, Henry Ford with all of his pluses and his minuses, one of the things he said was, I wanna make a car that my people who work in the factory can afford to buy.
	Well, they don't wanna have people around.
	They're not interested in selling cars to their robots.
	They just want to get us out of the way, and they will do whatever they can to do that.
	And it's interesting because I would ask the tens of thousands of employees that have been laid off by Google, by Tesla, by Amazon, by all these other Silicon Valleys, how do you really feel about that?
	How is that working out for you?
	Because now they are beginning to consume their own.
	And so I think that, to your point, the system will fall because it has lost core principles and morals.
	And now they are just trying to constantly figure out how they make a greater profit year over year instead of...
	How do you create a great product, a great company that is here to serve your customers and become sustainable, right?
	And being able to take care of your employees and provide them the lifestyles and the American tree.
	I think that it is a disconnection from the American dream, you know, the principles of the founding fathers and God-given liberties.
	And, you know, I think that at the end of the day, just as history has shown us, those systems will always topple.
	Yes, yes. And they're anti-human.
	They're anti-freedom. They're anti-human.
	And I believe that they will fail as people wake up.
	Our job is to wake them up the sooner the better.
	So we can do the least amount of damage.
	Again, your company is Liberation Tech.
	Is that correct? T-E-K? Yeah, so it's Liberation.
	Our website is LiberationTech.com.
	Great, great. Yeah, we'll be checking that out because we've been heavily censored here and getting kind of tired of it.
	I've been tired of it forever. The last six years has been going on.
	You're not alone. Yeah, so it's wonderful that people are going to use tools to get around these tools of censorship and control.
	I'm so excited to see what you've got there.
	Thank you so much, Andrew. Andrew Ridda, is that the way you say it?
	Okay, great. Andrew Ridda and the company is informationtech.com.
	LiberationTech. I'm sorry. LiberationTech.com.
	LiberationTech.com.
	Thank you so much for joining us.
	Appreciate it. The David Knight Show is a critical thinking super spreader.
	If you've been exposed to logic by listening to The David Knight Show, please do your part and try not to spread it.
	Financial support or simply telling others about the show causes this dangerous information to spread farther.
	People have to trust me.
	I mean, trust the science.
	Wear your mask.
	Take your vaccine.
	Don't ask questions.
	Using free speech to free minds.
	It's the David Knight Show.
	Alright, joining us now is David Steinman.
	Joining us now is David Steinman.
	He's the author and co-author of the groundbreaking bestsellers, Diet for a Poisoned Planet and the Safe Shopper's Bible.
	He's also a director of HLF, featured as one of the experts and activists in an HBO Max documentary Not So Pretty.
	And his investigative reporting and writing have won awards from Best of the West, California Newspaper Publishers Association, the Sierra Club, and the Green Book Festival.
	He's publisher of Healthy Living G Magazine and serves as director of the non-profit HLF, which is Healthy Living Foundation.
	His book that we're going to be talking about today is Raising Healthy Kids, Protecting Your Children from Hidden Chemical Toxins.
	And of course, you can find that on Amazon, probably everywhere else as well.
	Thank you for joining us, Mr.
	Simon. Oh, it's great to be here today.
	Well, thank you. Thank you.
	I was interested when I looked at this, let's begin with the youngest kids, the kids that are developing and the risk to them from chemicals in the household and chemicals that the pregnant mother may come in contact with.
	Yeah, that's a great issue, David, because our lives have become so inundated with chemical toxins, most of them not revealed to us, but hidden.
	I'll just give you an example.
	You were talking about our youngest kids, or rather during pregnancy, when so much of our kids' destiny really is determined from exposures that we may not even be thinking about, like, for example, cosmetics.
	You know, a lot of cosmetics don't reveal the hidden chemicals that can cause harm to the fetus or the embryo.
	For example, there's a chemical called phthalate.
	And you know, everyone is talking about plastic today.
	Plastic in our water, plastic even in our bodies, in the ocean, in our food.
	And what researchers have found is that phthalates, which are plastics, they're used in cosmetics to make them a little more pliable or hold in cosmetics.
	When mom is using these cosmetics and just has high normal everyday levels, high normal everyday levels, her child is at much being born with lost IQ points as many as six to seven IQ points could be lost.
	Wow. That's a lot. Yeah. Plus, yeah. I'm sorry, I was gonna ask what kind of cosmetics?
	I mean, we're talking about lipstick or face powder or eye makeup?
	What kind of stuff? You know, it's really pervasive.
	I'll just give you an example from the book.
	I talk about how when my kids brought home fragrances, right?
	You know, every teenager gets really concerned about social acceptance, so they start using deodorant, fragrances, and all.
	So my kid, one of my sons brought home English leather cologne.
	Which I think, David, which I think every teenager since like 1965 has probably used...
	That's right. I remember using it when I was a teenager.
	Oh, I know. And it hasn't stopped, my friend.
	It hasn't stopped.
	But we measured it for phthalate.
	I actually had it sent to the lab.
	And it was loaded with so much phthalate.
	And I told my son, I said, look, you know, I want to have grandkids and I want your kids to be really healthy.
	And if you keep using this stuff, I could speak frankly to him.
	I said, it's going to damage your testicles.
	testicles and your sperm. Because what researchers have found out is that phthalates act like the sex hormone estrogen. So when your son's testicles are loaded up with phthalate, which they will be if mom continues to use the wrong cosmetics, not only does he lose IQ points and fertility and could be at risk for ADHD, but he loses his testosterone. Because phthalates
	are like sex hormones. They imitate the hormone estrogen.
	So when we ask why do our daughters have so much endometriosis or polycystic ovary disease?
	Mm-hmm.
	The answer is we're overloading them with estrogens that are hidden, and one of the big culprits is cosmetics.
	So I do share in Raising Healthy Kids, how do you find safe cosmetics?
	I make it really simple, but it's so important.
	And of course, we talked a lot about English leather, and it's been around forever.
	But the formulations are changing all the time, right?
	You know, today, the products that you get today are going to likely be very different than what you use as a teenager.
	Even if it is the same brand and the same fragrance, it's still going to be probably a different formulation.
	They're constantly changing and improving these things, right?
	In terms of the things that they use for the manufacturing process and that type of thing.
	If you're looking at the ingredient list, you certainly will see that there are a lot of chemical toxins being used in cosmetics today that were not used 20 or 30 years ago.
	And cosmetics have always been a problem in society.
	I mean, you know, the Romans used cosmetics with lead and mercury for the cosmetic effects, you know.
	So really, in some ways, David...
	The safety has not really improved.
	It's probably just as bad today as it was 2,000 years ago.
	It's just that we've changed the chemicals that are causing problems.
	And we're not telling...
	The worst thing is, you know, people would buy safe products if they only knew.
	But the way that it's...
	The way the game is played or rigged, Industry doesn't have to tell consumers when they know there are hidden chemical toxins.
	I agree. Yeah. And of course, you know, we look at this and we say, well, you know, that's going to be fine because I use that as a kid or whatever.
	I've always used that. Well, that's not the same product.
	And you might look at these products and you say, well, I know I don't want something that's got lead in it or other things like that, but they might get the lead out.
	But now they put in some new chemical, but you have no idea what this is or what the health effects of it are.
	And so that's how, as you point out, that's why you've got to keep current on this, why something like your book, your publication is going to help people, because those things are constantly changing.
	Oh, they know about that one, so let's take that out.
	But we've got this new thing here, and nobody's tested it.
	We're going to put that in, and it can be something that you don't even necessarily really internalize in terms of eating, but you're still going to be getting that in through your skin, breathing it in, other things like that, and it's going to have a big effect on you, isn't it? Yeah, you know, the thing is, there's no pre-market safety testing for cosmetics either.
	So it's not like, as you mentioned, the concoctions are being tested to see what they will actually do to our reproductive capacity.
	We and our kids are actually the test animals in this case.
	That's right. That's why I was just talking about that with vaccines.
	That's becoming the new thing, you know.
	Oh, you got an MRA vaccine?
	You're approved. Go straight through.
	If they got a technology like 5G or something, we don't need to do any tests.
	We need this. So let's just run this thing through.
	We'll just rubber stamp this through. And of course, that is going on with everything, but especially with things that people are not necessarily even thinking about in terms of cosmetics.
	You mentioned things like bubble baths.
	Yeah, as a matter of fact, a bubble bath is another big culprit.
	A lot of bubble baths are made using what's called an ethoxylated alcohol, and they're contaminated with dioxane.
	So essentially, you know, the same dioxane, by the way, is in shampoos.
	My nonprofit group, the Healthy Living Foundation, we sued Procter& Gamble.
	We sued them for having high amounts of a carcinogen in Pantene and Herbal Essences shampoos.
	And we got them to reduce the levels by 90% in a consent judgment that we want in California Superior Court to make those products much safer.
	But you know, bubble bath like shampoos will contain a carcinogen called dioxane.
	Here's one big tip that's in my book though that I want to share with your listeners.
	If you see an ingredient on your cosmetic label that has these three letters, ETH, like sodium laureth sulfate, don't buy it.
	Those are the ingredients that will be contaminated with chemicals that cause cancer.
	So mom and dad, if you're buying shampoos for your kids, or if you're just buying them for yourself, or a bubble bath, The big tip is avoid any chemicals with ETH. You'll see it on the label, and if you do, you know that company is not looking out for your health or your kids' health.
	Wow, that's very important.
	Well, we'll check our shampoo today.
	I'm going to get your book as well.
	When you look at all this, and you mentioned some of the biggest brands that are there, of course, you know, Johnson& Johnson's, and something as fundamental as baby powder.
	That has gone on for decades, and they continue to do it, even after it was identified.
	They continued to run that through, didn't they?
	You're talking about the talc issue.
	Yeah. The baby powders had talc.
	And that has been linked with ovarian cancer.
	So it's a really big issue.
	But I'll tell you something else, David.
	If you want to move a little from cosmetics to foods, I'll just give you an example while we're on the topic of our children.
	You know, in court in California, the HLF, the Healthy Living Foundation, we had to sue a large almond nut butter company.
	And I don't know if you want to mention names or not, but it's helpful and I don't mind sharing a little bit.
	Because it's in public record, actually.
	But we sued Justin's Nut Butters, which is one of the most popular brands in the country because they have such a high amount of an industrial chemical called acrylamide that they were not telling their consumers about.
	Now, my kids, like a lot of kids, are trying to go healthy and a lot of folks are trying to go paleo.
	So, they are buying a lot of almond butters, for example.
	And what I share in Raising Healthy Kids, protecting their children from hidden chemical toxins, is when you're at that Whole Foods and you're looking for nut butters, you could reach for the Whole Foods nut butter, which we also tested and was very low and very safe compared to the Justin's.
	But neither is labeled for this industrial chemical called acrylamide, so the consumer is left in the dark.
	The problem is...
	That acrylamide, as we were talking about with talc, is linked with an increasing incidence of endometrial cancer in our daughters.
	and that risk begins when they're kids and they're eating snack foods because the foods most likely to have acrylamide are snack foods like nut butters or potato chips or french fries and if we let our kids keep eating these foods, we wonder again why is there so much endometriosis, endometrial cancer, reproductive cancers, breast cancer, all these cancers.
	Well, I mentioned that some chemicals act like estrogen.
	Acrylamide also acts like the hormone estrogen.
	So when our daughters are eating it, it messes with their genes and causes them to produce a toxic form of estrogen that then increases their risk for reproductive cancers.
	So, again, David, these things are not being shared with consumers, and that's why I really felt it was necessary to write the book and share this information.
	You know, people can...
	One of the fastest ways to make change in America is through the marketplace, through the free market.
	And we've kind of always said, well, America is a free market.
	We're capitalists. But how free is a market when the manufacturers are withholding such vital information from the consumers and dumbing them down?
	And that's what I'm fighting against, to make people smarter and let them see what's really going on so they can protect themselves and their families.
	That's right. You can't have a marketplace.
	You can't have a free marketplace if the consumers don't have any information.
	Exactly. Let me ask you this.
	Why are they putting these industrial chemicals in?
	Is it to be able to process the food more easily?
	Is it to make it go through the machines better?
	Is that why these industrial chemicals are finding their way in?
	Processing is a big part of it.
	Sometimes companies are just cheap, and they buy cheap materials and inferior materials.
	You know, also companies pretend like they have all these testing procedures in place.
	They'll say our products are third-party tested, etc., etc.
	What they're really saying is, when we buy our materials, we tell our raw source material suppliers to test the products for us and give us those test results.
	But what they don't tell their suppliers is, this is what we want you to test for, and these are the levels we want you to test at.
	Now, because I've been in the trenches so long, David, I know what the suppliers to the brand say is, well, we're going to test the products, but we're not really going to look for the chemicals that they're concerned about, nor are we going to test at levels low enough to find them.
	So we're going to send them a quality certificate that says that everything is non-detectable.
	Well, we go in there and test the products with really good lab methods, and that's when we find the phthalates, for example, or the dioxane.
	Self-induced blindness that the companies don't want to know the truth about their own products So they leave it to their suppliers and their suppliers willingly lie and deceive them because they want to keep supplying inferior Materials that don't cost as much to process. Yeah. Yeah.
	Yeah, we always see that I mean, we see it with political polls.
	When they're looking at pharmaceuticals, you might have three different companies, and they both got pretty much the same.
	They got three different drugs to treat a particular problem.
	And so they'll each hire their people to test it.
	And lo and behold...
	The people that you hired that you're paying are going to say that your brand is better than brand B and brand C. They've seen that over and over again.
	And so that's really what's happening because there isn't any oversight.
	Let me tell you.
	The David Knight Show.
	You can listen to with your ears.
	You can even watch it by using your eyes.
	In fact, if you can hear me, that means you're listening to The David Knight Show right now.
	Yeah. Good job.
	And you want to know something else?

▲