Danny Jones Podcast - #326 - Navy Admiral Warns Unknown Objects are HUNTING Our Nuclear Submarines | Tim Gallaudet
Aired: 2025-08-25
Duration: 02:31:05


=== Navy Oceanographer Background (13:11) ===

[00:00:07]  You come from a background of underwater naval stuff.
[00:00:12]  So, for people that don't know who you are, why don't you give me a background into what your military and naval background is?
[00:00:19]  Sure.
[00:00:20]  So, I was an oceanographer in the Navy.
[00:00:22]  I did that for 32 years.
[00:00:23]  I have three degrees in oceanography masters, bachelor's, PhD.
[00:00:28]  And my specialty was to be an oceanographer.
[00:00:31]  And what that involves in the Navy.
[00:00:33]  Is providing information and predictions about the ocean, the atmosphere, space, and even the seafloor.
[00:00:41]  And all that information is used by naval forces.
[00:00:44]  We were chatting about Navy SEALs before.
[00:00:45]  I worked at the Navy SEAL headquarters.
[00:00:47]  SEALs use environmental information like nobody else because they live and die by it.
[00:00:51]  If they're in the water, let's say they're a submarine or SEAL delivery vehicle, a mini sub, currents, wave heights, temperature, all those missions are limited by temperature.
[00:01:01]  Everyone hypes out after those missions.
[00:01:03]  They're long duration missions.
[00:01:05]  The subs are flooded.
[00:01:06]  So, environmental information for the Navy.
[00:01:07]  I served on aircraft carriers, hydrographic ships, amphibious assault ships, and in the Pentagon, directing all that kind of activity.
[00:01:16]  So, but you grew up in Southern California, kind of like just by the ocean, always around this type of.
[00:01:22]  Was it San Diego you were around?
[00:01:23]  No, I grew up in LA.
[00:01:24]  Oh, okay.
[00:01:25]  And I didn't live in San Diego a lot of my career, but like you, we'd go to the beach every summer and vacation there.
[00:01:33]  And so, just I was a swimmer too.
[00:01:36]  So, I liked to body surf.
[00:01:38]  Not a good surfer, but tried and bodyboarded too.
[00:01:40]  And I just loved being in the waves.
[00:01:42]  And that's when I knew I want to work on the sea and study it.
[00:01:47]  So the first thing you did once you got into the military was what again?
[00:01:52]  So I went to the Naval Academy.
[00:01:55]  Naval Academy.
[00:01:55]  Yeah.
[00:01:55]  That's what it was.
[00:01:56]  Okay.
[00:01:57]  And then you were working with Navy SEALs, doing some SEAL training stuff.
[00:02:01]  Actually, so backing up, I didn't really go into the Navy because I thought I wanted to be a naval officer.
[00:02:08]  I wanted to be an oceanographer and I wanted to get a PhD in oceanography.
[00:02:12]  There's this institution in La Jolla called Scripps.
[00:02:16]  And as a swimmer, I'd go down there every year as a high schooler and we compete in their annual rough water swim.
[00:02:22]  And it was very popular, one of the biggest rough water swims in the country.
[00:02:26]  And it was across La Jolla Cove, Scripps Pier.
[00:02:31]  And I thought, what's that place?
[00:02:32]  And I did some research and I realized these people study the ocean and there's so much we don't know about the ocean.
[00:02:37]  I thought, that's it.
[00:02:38]  I'm going to do that.
[00:02:39]  I want to go there and get a degree.
[00:02:41]  And then I realized the Naval Academy had one scholarship available every year to go get a master's degree at Scripps.
[00:02:48]  And I did some more research and thought that's what I want to do.
[00:02:52]  I get that scholarship from the Academy.
[00:02:54]  And then after that, I'd figure out what was next.
[00:02:57]  And that's what I did.
[00:02:58]  So after you get the scholarship within oceanography, how did that lead into all of this other stuff with like Navy submarines and Navy SEALs and then eventually into this UAP research?
[00:03:11]  Yeah.
[00:03:12]  Well, First things first is that that was my career choice.
[00:03:16]  So it's a specialty of the Navy, Navy oceanography officer.
[00:03:20]  And there's only about 400 or so in the Navy.
[00:03:24]  And they do all these things.
[00:03:25]  And they work with SEALs, they work with the submarine community, they work on a lot of aviation cable ships to predict weather.
[00:03:31]  And then they also work with intelligence agencies to map the seafloor and do other things I can't talk about.
[00:03:38]  But a big part of intelligence collection for undersea warfare, this community the Navy does.
[00:03:44]  And so that was my career path to jump around and do things in that specialty.
[00:03:49]  So I started on aircraft carriers, I mentioned, two combat tours, by the way, which were exciting and we could talk about.
[00:03:54]  Wow.
[00:03:55]  We were supporting ground forces and flying strikes into Iraq and Afghanistan.
[00:04:00]  So, our ship was relatively safe.
[00:04:01]  I wasn't in combat per se, even though I think Saddam Hussein might have lobbed a few missiles in our way.
[00:04:07]  But we had a good air defense capability.
[00:04:09]  But ultimately, those were pretty exciting tours for sure.
[00:04:14]  Is it true we've only mapped like 5% of the seafloor?
[00:04:18]  So, we have mapped 25% of the seafloor globally.
[00:04:22]  Yeah.
[00:04:23]  But that means 75% is not mapped.
[00:04:25]  That's a lot of ocean floor.
[00:04:26]  We don't even know what it's like.
[00:04:28]  I was looking on Instagram yesterday, someone posted an image of the Pacific Ocean.
[00:04:33]  You can literally look at the earth from one angle and see no land, it's just all ocean.
[00:04:40]  That's right, yes.
[00:04:41]  Literally, I've sailed across that a lot of times, and it is a long haul.
[00:04:44]  That's yes, it's pretty crazy when you think about it.
[00:04:48]  This is a water world, oh, yeah, right?
[00:04:50]  There's way more water than land.
[00:04:52]  70% of the ocean is covered by water, but the key statistic is so that's the seafloor, the volume of the ocean.
[00:04:58]  We've barely explored 10 of it, so 90% of the volume of the ocean's never been explored with a remotely operated vehicle.
[00:05:09]  Or a diver, or even a drone, ocean drones.
[00:05:12]  So that's a lot of the ocean that we know nothing about.
[00:05:15]  That's insane.
[00:05:16]  So we've studied more of the moon than we have of our own oceans.
[00:05:19]  Oh, yeah.
[00:05:20]  Pretty much.
[00:05:20]  We've mapped the surface of the moon and Mars to a higher resolution than the seafloor, which is beyond me.
[00:05:26]  And that was kind of my campaign as an oceanographer, is trying to get us funded.
[00:05:31]  Certainly when I led NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
[00:05:35]  So they're the top ocean agency.
[00:05:36]  And I was always trying to get us to get funding like NASA did.
[00:05:41]  NASA always still is just, they have a lot of appeal.
[00:05:43]  And I'm not going to criticize NASA, but you'd think we'd want to dedicate as much funding or to explore our own world and understand it.
[00:05:53]  And so, yeah, that's something I've been on.
[00:05:55]  It's kind of a theme in my career.
[00:05:56]  Yeah, no, I've always used NOAA to check like wind patterns and swell patterns and stuff to check surf.
[00:06:03]  But like, other than that, what kind of stuff does NOAA do?
[00:06:07]  Oh, well, on the ocean related things, there's a couple of really important things.
[00:06:12]  Services they provide.
[00:06:13]  One is for all seaports and coastal areas, they run an operational ocean forecast system.
[00:06:20]  So it's currents, it's tide levels, and temperatures, and wind, of course.
[00:06:25]  And that's really important for pilots to go in and out of port.
[00:06:29]  And our seaports contribute almost 25% of our GDP is material going in and out of seaports.
[00:06:38]  And then also tourism and recreation on the coast, you know this.
[00:06:41]  So they're providing rip current forecasts and weather too, of course.
[00:06:46]  And that's Saves lives.
[00:06:48]  It's crazy that 100 people a year die from rip currents.
[00:06:53]  That's crazy.
[00:06:53]  Is that nuts or what?
[00:06:54]  That is nuts.
[00:06:55]  I get caught in rip currents every time I surf.
[00:06:56]  Yeah, same here.
[00:06:57]  But if you're on board, it's easy, obviously, rather than you're swimming when you're swimming.
[00:07:02]  And so, another thing NOAA does, I'm really a fan of, is in the ocean.
[00:07:06]  It's this program to explore the ocean.
[00:07:10]  It's the Ocean Exploration and Research Program.
[00:07:12]  And what they do is they have a dedicated ship with a deep diving, remotely operated vehicle with cameras and sonar and Robotic arms to take samples.
[00:07:22]  And they're all over the world every year exploring places we don't know anything about.
[00:07:27]  And the same office funds other explorers with their ships.
[00:07:30]  So, right now, Bob Ballard, the guy who discovered Titanic, a friend of mine, I've been on his ship, he is in this area of the Pacific called Iron Bottom Sound off of the Solomon Islands, where in World War II, 1942 specifically, we were fighting major battles against the Japanese.
[00:07:47]  And we were getting our butts kicked.
[00:07:48]  And so, a lot of the U.S. fleet and Australian ships are down there.
[00:07:52]  And he's He's characterizing all that with the ROV, and it's really interesting stuff for me.
[00:07:57]  Iron bottom sound.
[00:07:58]  Yeah.
[00:07:58]  How deep is it?
[00:07:59]  I don't know.
[00:08:01]  It's well, their ROV is rated to 6,000 meters.
[00:08:04]  So it's less than 6,000 meters.
[00:08:06]  I'm not sure exactly, but deeper than a diver could go.
[00:08:11]  Did you ever sail on any nuclear submarines like any of the Columbia class or the Ohio class subs?
[00:08:19]  Actually, I was on an Ohio class, but it was more of a training cruise when I was a midshipman.
[00:08:25]  And then I was on a LA, Los Angeles attack submarine, both nuclear.
[00:08:30]  As a training cruise as well.
[00:08:31]  And then actually, I went up to the Columbia class.
[00:08:33]  Oh, the Columbia class are the new ones.
[00:08:34]  The Ohio ones are the old ones.
[00:08:36]  That's right.
[00:08:36]  So I don't even know if they're done building the Columbia class ones.
[00:08:39]  I don't think they are.
[00:08:40]  I just saw, we saw a report a couple months ago that they were spending like, it was like $2.5 billion per sub, and they were doing like a few dozen of them.
[00:08:47]  Yeah, that's a big, hefty bill.
[00:08:49]  Yeah.
[00:08:49]  Yes.
[00:08:50]  But I did go up into the Arctic for when I was a one star admiral.
[00:08:55]  Often when you're at that level, you'll go all around the Navy because you need to, you're the Navy spokesman when you become an admiral.
[00:09:02]  And so you really, It's important to learn about all that you're doing to support the Navy.
[00:09:07]  And I had a team of scientists and sailors up in the Arctic supporting the submarine exercise where they built a camp and some subs punched through the ice cap.
[00:09:17]  And I got to go on one of those submarines, the USS Hampton.
[00:09:20]  Yeah, it was quite an experience.
[00:09:22]  This is interesting because those camps right there, they have to set them up in one day.
[00:09:27]  And I mean, it gets down to 40 below.
[00:09:29]  And if your skin is exposed to 40 below for just a few seconds, you could get frostbite.
[00:09:36]  It's real dangerous stuff.
[00:09:37]  Steve, find a photo of one of those submarines punching through the ice in the Antarctic.
[00:09:40]  When you got on that submarine, I actually have a selfie of me.
[00:09:43]  Do you really?
[00:09:44]  I can get that to you.
[00:09:44]  Oh, really?
[00:09:45]  Yeah, please do.
[00:09:46]  So, when you get on that submarine, where do you leave from?
[00:09:48]  And how long does it take to get to the Arctic?
[00:09:50]  Well, I had the easy one because I flew up to this.
[00:09:53]  You flew up there.
[00:09:54]  I flew up there to Ukjavik.
[00:09:56]  It used to be called Barrow.
[00:09:57]  Uh huh.
[00:09:58]  And that's what we saw.
[00:09:59]  It's insane.
[00:10:00]  Isn't that great?
[00:10:02]  It's some badass stuff for sure.
[00:10:05]  And that's what, and it's important now because Russia is.
[00:10:08]  Challenging us everywhere they can, and China too.
[00:10:11]  And China's sending ships up there, so we have to.
[00:10:15]  It's important for us to have a presence and a capability, and that's what the purpose of the exercise was to have the submarine practice.
[00:10:21]  Actually, there was a British sub up there too, and they were doing tactics and maneuvers against each other, testing out various procedures and their sonar equipment, trying to find each other.
[00:10:32]  Basically, it's the training we do just to stay ahead, yeah.
[00:10:38]  And the amount of what I learned.
[00:10:42]  In the last probably year or two, was that these subs carry something like up to 50, maybe 40 or 50 nuclear warheads on them, all of them.
[00:10:52]  Oh, I forgot the number, but that's about right.
[00:10:54]  That's a large amount because they're all MIRVED.
[00:10:57]  So they all have like four or six nuclear warheads on each missile.
[00:11:03]  And there's like at least two dozen of these rockets that are on each one of these subs.
[00:11:09]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:11:09]  And the ocean.
[00:11:10]  Those are the ballistic missile subs, not the.
[00:11:13]  Attack subs.
[00:11:14]  They're different.
[00:11:15]  The subs I was on was an attack sub.
[00:11:17]  What's the difference?
[00:11:17]  So, attack sub carries torpedoes and vertical launch.
[00:11:21]  Some, I think, have, no, some have Tomahawk missiles, I believe, but primarily torpedoes with a main mission to do undersea warfare, attack and kill other submarines and ships.
[00:11:32]  And ships.
[00:11:33]  Right.
[00:11:35]  And then there's other submarines that basically have on the top of them, they're just lined with warheads, missiles with warheads on them.
[00:11:44]  They launch them from underwater and then they go into the atmosphere, and then the MIRVs come out and they hit their predetermined program targets, right?
[00:11:50]  Yeah, big Cold War mission, but still one today, too.
[00:11:53]  Yeah, Annie Jampson did this book last year, she let out, called Nuclear War.
[00:11:57]  I saw the show.
[00:11:59]  Oh, you watched that.
[00:12:00]  No, I should part it.
[00:12:00]  It's terrifying.
[00:12:02]  Absolutely terrifying.
[00:12:03]  And she shows there's a graphic of all the submarine highways around the world.
[00:12:08]  And there's Russian and Chinese submarines that are patrolling off of our coasts in Florida, California.
[00:12:15]  Right here.
[00:12:16]  Here it is.
[00:12:17]  So, the Russian Navy are the dark black dashes, and the Chinese, like the light dots, and the undersea cables are the lines.
[00:12:26]  But that's insane.
[00:12:26]  If you look at all those submarine highways, Right off the coast of California, right off the coast of Florida and North Carolina.
[00:12:34]  And that's insane.
[00:12:38]  How do they not like run into each other?
[00:12:40]  There's so many of them.
[00:12:41]  Yes, that's a well, there's I'll say this.
[00:12:44]  I'll say this.
[00:12:45]  The Caribbean is littered with nuclear subs.
[00:12:48]  Well, it's our submarines are really good.
[00:12:52]  And I've seen video, for example, of our subs under an adversary submarine and the periscope sub, and they're videoing their propellers of the adversary.
[00:13:04]  And the, and the, I can't, this was a while ago, but I better not.
[00:13:09]  And that, but you could say, you could expect who it was.
[00:13:12]  It was in the late 80s.
[00:13:14]  And the submarine, they didn't know we were doing that.

=== Cold War Submarine Secrets (02:38) ===

[00:13:19]  So we've gone, there's a great book out there.
[00:13:21]  I recommend people read if they are into this topic called Blind Man's Bluff.
[00:13:26]  And it's, I have that book sitting on my nightstand right now.
[00:13:28]  Just read it.
[00:13:29]  I want to read it.
[00:13:29]  And the interesting thing about that book, so it's basically the whole cat and mouse game of the Cold War under, with submarines and tapping into undersea cables using, Divers that deploy from submarines.
[00:13:41]  What?
[00:13:42]  Yes, yes.
[00:13:43]  While they're deep?
[00:13:44]  While the submarines are underwater?
[00:13:45]  Well, it's some during the terminals, at the terminals where the undersea cables make landfall, if you will.
[00:13:54]  There's areas, shallow areas before it.
[00:13:57]  That's where the Russians and we were tapping undersea cables to basically spy on the communications.
[00:14:04]  How deep are we talking?
[00:14:05]  So I don't recall the exact depth, but these are depths divers could do.
[00:14:09]  Okay.
[00:14:10]  So probably less than 200 feet.
[00:14:12]  Okay.
[00:14:13]  But some of the missions I think were more extreme.
[00:14:15]  Ultimately, we were both doing it to each other.
[00:14:18]  But, and I'll just say this.
[00:14:20]  So, that book was, I think, released in the 90s.
[00:14:23]  And a lot of that information, I think, has been declassified for those ops in that time.
[00:14:29]  But to say that we don't do that today would be, I think, myopic.
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=== Shark Feeding Controversy (15:22) ===

[00:15:57]  There was a spot in the Gulf, or I forget where it was exactly.
[00:16:02]  It was down south from here, maybe 100 miles, 50 to 100 miles offshore, where these people were freediving these cables, like giant cables that are underwater in the Gulf.
[00:16:14]  And there's all kinds of fish.
[00:16:16]  Oh, yeah.
[00:16:16]  And like Goliath Grouper and stuff on them.
[00:16:18]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:19]  They like structure.
[00:16:19]  Insane.
[00:16:20]  Have you ever dived on an oil rig?
[00:16:23]  I have not, but it looks absolutely terrifying.
[00:16:25]  I can get, no, no.
[00:16:27]  It's like you said, it's like those cables.
[00:16:28]  There's all these giant pelagic fish, sharks, tuna, permit.
[00:16:32]  It's really, it's awesome.
[00:16:34]  I have friends that go up to like the northern panhandle and they'll fish up there and they'll catch all kinds of like tuna and like sailfish and all kinds of crazy stuff off of those oil rigs.
[00:16:46]  But I don't think those guys have the balls to jump in the water.
[00:16:49]  Oh, no.
[00:16:49]  It's not that heavy.
[00:16:50]  It's not a hard dive at all.
[00:16:52]  Really?
[00:16:53]  I should have brought my wife on this podcast because she was a Navy diver.
[00:16:56]  And so she's done the really hard diving, recovering aircraft.
[00:16:59]  Really?
[00:17:00]  Yes, yes.
[00:17:01]  This is heavy stuff, heavy lifting from the ocean.
[00:17:04]  And that's what salvage divers do.
[00:17:06]  And so she had two tours like that.
[00:17:08]  I had a guy on here a couple of years ago who worked for the Department of Transportation.
[00:17:13]  And he was the diver that was in charge of inspecting all the bridges around Florida.
[00:17:17]  Wow.
[00:17:18]  Okay.
[00:17:18]  So he had to dive every single bridge that exists in the state and inspect all the pilings, the structural integrity of all of them.
[00:17:28]  I don't know how often he had to do each one, but he said, I asked him out of all the bridges, what was the scariest one?
[00:17:34]  And he said it was the one that was like two miles away from here in John's Pass in Madeira Beach.
[00:17:39]  Very narrow pass, but it's so narrow and so deep, and there's so much crazy like rubble and structures underneath the deepest part of it.
[00:17:49]  He's like, first of all, there's like ungodly amounts of bull sharks.
[00:17:53]  Second of all, like the water's moving so fast, it's crazy.
[00:17:57]  He's like, you could easily get snagged on some rebar back down there and drown.
[00:18:02]  That's scary diving when you have all these obstructions and a swift moving current.
[00:18:07]  And what was the visibility poor to?
[00:18:08]  Very low.
[00:18:09]  So that's, and bull sharks, low visibility, bad combination.
[00:18:12]  Yes, 100%.
[00:18:13]  In fact, not near here.
[00:18:15]  On the other side of Florida, I went with my daughter to go free dive with sharks.
[00:18:21]  And that particular day, there happened to be about 18 bull sharks.
[00:18:25]  But if it's out in the Gulf, so it's super 100 foot visibility.
[00:18:29]  Yeah.
[00:18:29]  And they have a big.
[00:18:29]  You mean the Atlantic on the other side?
[00:18:31]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:18:31]  Golf, I'm gonna say Golf Stream.
[00:18:33]  Golf Stream, gotcha.
[00:18:34]  And uh, and so when they put a bait crate down and the visibility is 100 feet, they're not interested in you, they're like dogs on a scent and they'll stay away from you.
[00:18:43]  And it's a pretty awesome dive to go do that and see sharks up so close.
[00:18:48]  But yeah, you don't want to mess with bull sharks when the visibility is bad because then they get confused.
[00:18:52]  But that was a fun day because we, uh, at one point a hammerhead came swimming through and of course, and he saw all these bulls around him and he just got out of dodge.
[00:19:02]  Yeah.
[00:19:04]  Yeah, it's gotten so bad.
[00:19:05]  The sharks have gotten so bad in Florida that you can go out there, and all the spear fishermen have to do is just start popping their bands.
[00:19:12]  Oh, yeah.
[00:19:13]  And the sharks just appear everywhere.
[00:19:15]  It's really crazy.
[00:19:16]  Where do you surf?
[00:19:17]  I surf all around, mainly on the East Coast, like between Daytona Beach and Sebastian.
[00:19:23]  Oh, okay.
[00:19:23]  Okay.
[00:19:24]  Sometimes a little bit farther south, like Fort Pierce.
[00:19:27]  And then obviously here, in when was it?
[00:19:32]  It was like September, October of last year, we had the hurricane.
[00:19:35]  So we got like some really good waves for the hurricane swells.
[00:19:39]  But, um, but yeah, no, the, um, the sharks have been, have been out of control here lately.
[00:19:44]  And I think it has a lot to do with the spear fishermen.
[00:19:46]  Yeah.
[00:19:46]  Well, they'll bait sharks in.
[00:19:48]  They'll bait bull sharks in just so they can like shoot big cobia off the top of them or whatever.
[00:19:53]  And it's like, these people are nuts.
[00:19:54]  These people have like a serious problem.
[00:19:55]  You do not want to be in the water.
[00:19:57]  No, exactly.
[00:19:58]  No, it's crazy.
[00:19:59]  And then, you know, in New Smyrna Beach, which is a really popular beach in right south of Daytona, there are, it's the shark attack capital of the world.
[00:20:10]  Really?
[00:20:11]  Yeah.
[00:20:11]  But they're little, they're like little spinner sharks and black tip sharks, like yay big.
[00:20:15]  You'll have to go to the hospital.
[00:20:16]  You'll get a pretty severe like laceration to your leg or your foot.
[00:20:20]  Oh, God.
[00:20:20]  Some guy just got his hand bitten like, In half two days ago.
[00:20:23]  But, you know, they're not like great whites or tiger sharks or anything like that.
[00:20:28]  So I was telling Steve, when I was at NOAA, we had a lot of great scientists doing neat things.
[00:20:33]  And I found some scientists in La Jolla, fisheries biologists, and they shared with me some video of them.
[00:20:39]  And every year for 20 years, they've been going to Guadalupe Island, Mexico, up Baja, to document these white sharks there.
[00:20:46]  And what they do is they would photo ID them diving in steel cages.
[00:20:51]  And the science was cool because basically, The line between a white shark's top and underbelly, which is white, is kind of jagged and it's unique to each individual.
[00:21:03]  So the pattern along that border is sort of like zebra stripes.
[00:21:06]  You can identify individuals.
[00:21:08]  And so, because everyone's different, it's kind of like someone's eye for face recognition.
[00:21:13]  And so they were documenting new individuals every time.
[00:21:18]  Anyways, they were diving with great white sharks.
[00:21:19]  And I saw the video and I thought, oh my God, I got to do this.
[00:21:22]  And of course, I submit a request or I ask the lawyers to review it.
[00:21:27]  They all wagged their finger at me and said, No, no, no.
[00:21:30]  You know, you going down there for five days to dive and bite sharks, that's going to look really bad.
[00:21:35]  Those are bad optics for ethics, government ethics.
[00:21:38]  Really?
[00:21:38]  Oh, yeah.
[00:21:39]  So the way the environment is now, okay, if I were to do that, anybody, I work for Trump.
[00:21:45]  So you can be sure every Democrat in the Senate would say I was waste, fraud, and abuse of government money to go down and boondoggle to go diving for five days, which is legitimate.
[00:21:57]  This is, There's $21 trillion missing from the Pentagon.
[00:22:01]  What's a shark dive?
[00:22:03]  Good point.
[00:22:04]  I would have been doing good science.
[00:22:05]  You're right.
[00:22:05]  But ultimately, you always got to see.
[00:22:08]  Well, I had to always see why, if you will, just make sure I didn't misstep.
[00:22:12]  Ultimately, after I left, my wife, being a former Navy diver, she said, let's go do it.
[00:22:17]  And we signed up and did it in November of 2021.
[00:22:20]  And I remember thinking this.
[00:22:21]  So our plan was to leave Ensenada.
[00:22:24]  It takes a whole day to get out to Guadalupe, three days in the water with sharks, and then.
[00:22:29]  One day back, and I thought three days doing the same thing.
[00:22:33]  We've dived all over the world on different reefs, and I thought I might get bored after this.
[00:22:38]  And then, of course, the moment we get in the water with these animals, I didn't want to leave.
[00:22:43]  It was just so interesting to see these giant, bust sized creatures that have all the reputation and drama associated with them in their native habitat and just doing what they do and being so close to touch almost.
[00:22:58]  And so now I've told people this now I know why bungee jumpers and adrenaline junkies do what they do.
[00:23:03]  Because I could not wait to get back in the water.
[00:23:06]  I didn't want to leave.
[00:23:06]  I was going to be there all day if I could.
[00:23:08]  And I still would.
[00:23:09]  That's incredible.
[00:23:10]  White sharks up close and personal.
[00:23:11]  Yeah, I'm less afraid of white sharks than I am of bulls and tigers.
[00:23:16]  Because I don't think white sharks, unless it was a really hungry, hungry white shark, would want to eat and consume a human.
[00:23:23]  But I think there's been plenty of evidence of tiger sharks just devouring human beings.
[00:23:30]  Yeah.
[00:23:31]  And it's an interesting thing, though, because like any interaction, you really have to understand the animal's behavior.
[00:23:37]  And the situation and environment.
[00:23:38]  So, for example, I like that we're talking about this.
[00:23:44]  My wife and I. Let's talk about UFOs, but we'll get there eventually, folks.
[00:23:47]  We'll get there.
[00:23:48]  My wife and I went to Fiji recently, and this is so interesting.
[00:23:52]  Like a lot of places in the wild, there's a resident female tiger shark there.
[00:23:58]  And the way they've built up the dive location is they've built a little wall on the seafloor, and the divers will have you all sit and kneel on the sand behind it.
[00:24:11]  And then the professional divers, the guides, they have a big steel.
[00:24:16]  Box with tuna and fish heads.
[00:24:20]  And they'll get out there and they're all in chain mail, which is really interesting to see a guy in full diving steel.
[00:24:29]  And then they'll start feeding the animal.
[00:24:31]  And just this sure enough, like clockwork, like ringing a dinner bell, this big mama tiger shark would swim along and come there and eat her tuna and then leap.
[00:24:40]  And so she made a couple passes and we got all these really close pictures.
[00:24:45]  And of course, the divers were all good.
[00:24:46]  They got these big steel prongs making sure that the The tiger didn't get too close to us.
[00:24:51]  But ultimately, it's a chance to go witness a tiger like that where you could almost touch it.
[00:24:56]  Yeah.
[00:24:56]  Which is pretty awesome.
[00:24:57]  It's pretty awesome.
[00:24:58]  There's also a lady in Hawaii who does this.
[00:25:01]  I think there's a Netflix documentary just came out about her.
[00:25:03]  Her name's Ocean Ramsey.
[00:25:04]  I know about her.
[00:25:05]  Yeah.
[00:25:05]  I think that's pretty reckless.
[00:25:07]  It's pretty reckless.
[00:25:08]  And it paints a false narrative of what those animals really are.
[00:25:11]  Oh, yeah.
[00:25:11]  Because all those sharks that she's diving with are A, very accustomed to seeing humans everywhere, and B, they're very well fed.
[00:25:20]  Yeah, that's the only thing that keeps her alive.
[00:25:23]  Those are beasts.
[00:25:23]  Those are man eating beasts.
[00:25:25]  Like, that, I don't know.
[00:25:28]  I don't know, you know, how to reiterate that strongly enough for people that are seeing these things where she's like, you know, she's, you know, kudos to her for like, for doing what she's doing and being able to promote ocean conservation.
[00:25:43]  Yeah, everything she's doing good is great.
[00:25:46]  But like, the fact, like, coming in all kumbaya, like, oh, she's.
[00:25:52]  Today, she has a tummy ache.
[00:25:54]  We're going to just, if she's coming at you, just pet her on the nose and she will turn the other way.
[00:25:59]  Like, that's not real.
[00:26:01]  That's not characterized.
[00:26:03]  That animal or that species.
[00:26:04]  No, no.
[00:26:06]  No, she's not characterizing them accurately.
[00:26:08]  Right.
[00:26:09]  They don't have feelings like that.
[00:26:10]  No.
[00:26:11]  There was a video that came out, actually, I think it was a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago, of a dude literally getting eaten alive by a shark in Egypt.
[00:26:18]  Yeah.
[00:26:18]  You saw that one?
[00:26:19]  I have, yes.
[00:26:20]  Oh, God.
[00:26:21]  You have to respect the ocean.
[00:26:22]  It is scary.
[00:26:23]  And there were videos of that shark swimming around that pier right before it happened.
[00:26:26]  There were guys like on the dock.
[00:26:27]  I guess what they were doing was they were dumping sheep carcasses right offshore there.
[00:26:33]  And this guy, you know, should not have been seen.
[00:26:36]  Wrong face, wrong time.
[00:26:37]  This happened in something similar in Israel.
[00:26:39]  Did you hear about that?
[00:26:40]  No.
[00:26:40]  Yeah, there was an area where I guess the residents or the tourists had been kind of giving fish to local sharks in the region.
[00:26:50]  It sort of had been a thing for years.
[00:26:52]  And I don't know if you know, but the Place in Hawaii where they do this with manta rays, and instead it's just using lights to attract plankton.
[00:26:58]  Do you know about that?
[00:26:59]  No.
[00:26:59]  Yeah, off the Big Island, it's really neat.
[00:27:02]  They have a hotel that had a bunch of lights to light the water up, and every night it would draw plankton, and that attracted some manta rays.
[00:27:11]  And now it's a daily event, and they bring divers in to see it.
[00:27:14]  I've been there, and it's pretty amazing.
[00:27:17]  But it's almost artificial.
[00:27:18]  It's kind of like that tiger shark where they've almost domesticated these animals.
[00:27:23]  We got to see mantas in the wild in Palau.
[00:27:26]  And that was totally different.
[00:27:27]  That was going out and trying to find them.
[00:27:29]  And then, if you're really lucky, and we got lucky, we found them.
[00:27:32]  But yeah, Israel had something similar.
[00:27:35]  And a guy, they basically found half of him.
[00:27:38]  He had, yeah.
[00:27:39]  And he was just, I think he was a tourist or he was a local, but he'd just been at the beach and it was just not a good day.
[00:27:45]  So, the time, those aren't good things to do to start mixing humans and sharks in that way.
[00:27:51]  Right.
[00:27:52]  So, Ocean Ramsey's not communicating the right message in that respect.
[00:27:55]  Right.
[00:27:55]  Right.
[00:27:56]  How much of a hand have you had in like regulating fisheries, if any?
[00:28:01]  Oh, well, a lot.
[00:28:03]  So, when I was in charge of NOAA, they have under that agency the National Weather Service, the National Ocean Service, and then this.
[00:28:12]  National Marine Fisheries Service.
[00:28:13]  And that's their job to basically do the science.
[00:28:17]  And this is interesting, you fish.
[00:28:19]  So now you probably mostly are governed by the laws of the state of Florida because you do it locally, but out in federal water, so that's what NOAA owns.
[00:28:26]  And they do the science to estimate any given stock's abundance and distributions.
[00:28:32]  And then with that, they set the catch limits to make sure the stock's not overfished.
[00:28:37]  So it's a very good service.
[00:28:39]  Our fisheries were decimated in the 80s because we had no real effective rules.
[00:28:43]  And so, with good and sensible rules, you're going to keep the stocks around for both the commercial and recreational fishermen.
[00:28:50]  So, that port I was telling you about right down the street from here, Madeira Beach, is the number one grouper capital of the world.
[00:28:57]  Oh, man, next time I come, let's go diving.
[00:28:59]  Yeah, we should.
[00:29:01]  Spearfishing.
[00:29:02]  I don't know about that.
[00:29:03]  Oh, good point.
[00:29:04]  It's been a while for me.
[00:29:05]  I haven't gone spearfishing in years, but if I do it, I want to make sure that the water's clear.
[00:29:11]  Right now, it's not clear.
[00:29:14]  In the wintertime, it gets nice.
[00:29:15]  In the wintertime here, we should do it.
[00:29:17]  But what I was getting to is we, I, a couple of years ago, probably like this is probably 2015, 2014, I went and I started interviewing a couple of the fishermen that were working on the docks down there.
[00:29:29]  And I come to find out these dudes are like heroin addicts, the deckhands.
[00:29:33]  What?
[00:29:33]  The deckhands.
[00:29:34]  Oh, yeah.
[00:29:34]  Okay.
[00:29:35]  And we started like following them around, like seeing how they live, see their lifestyle.
[00:29:38]  And they were all very disgruntled about the IFQ system.
[00:29:44]  Oh, right.
[00:29:45]  Okay.
[00:29:45]  And we didn't even know that.
[00:29:46]  We were just kind of like following these guys around, seeing what they were doing.
[00:29:49]  They were just like, Complete junkie drug addicts, like crazy people.
[00:29:53]  And we started digging more and more into it.
[00:29:56]  And we started to learn about this whole crazy underbelly of this fishing world that's here in my backyard that I never knew existed.
[00:30:03]  And so we went to the fish house where all the boats come in and they weigh their fish.
[00:30:10]  And I learned the whole history of this.
[00:30:12]  And it's fascinating how, like in 2007, before 2007, here it was a free for all.
[00:30:19]  So basically, Red Snapper.
[00:30:22]  You could get a 3 million.
[00:30:23]  The allotment was like 3 million pounds.
[00:30:25]  All the fishermen would go out, catch as much as they can, come in, weigh the fish, and then see where you're at.
[00:30:32]  Maybe you hit that 3 million quota limit in like October, right?
[00:30:36]  So you had to stop fishing.
[00:30:37]  You can't catch anymore.
[00:30:37]  Right.
[00:30:38]  So in 2007, the federal government came in and they created a monopoly with it.
[00:30:43]  And they basically said, boat owners, based on your previous catch history, we are going to give you X amount of quota every single year.
[00:30:52]  So, some guys got, you know, upwards of 200,000 pounds a year.
[00:30:55]  Some guys got 100,000 pounds a year, 50,000 pounds a year, whatever it was.
[00:30:59]  These boat owners got the best retirement plan known to man.
[00:31:01]  Oh, yeah.
[00:31:02]  Right.
[00:31:02]  So, so, so what did they do?
[00:31:04]  They started selling them.
[00:31:07]  All right.
[00:31:07]  And now you don't even have to own a boat.
[00:31:09]  You can just buy and sell this stuff and play with it like stock.
[00:31:12]  Yeah.
[00:31:13]  This quota.
[00:31:14]  People will lease it out to fishermen, to boat owners.
[00:31:16]  And then by the time that deckhand gets paid, there's like not much left for them.

=== Chocolate vs Fishery Health (03:19) ===

[00:31:20]  And I interviewed some guys that are like a part of the, um, that, Operate fisheries up in like the northeast, and they were saying when they were down here talking to me, they're like, It is not like this where we're from.
[00:31:31]  That's right.
[00:31:32]  They were explaining what's happening here is like carny ride operators, just exploiting these guys that are addicted to freaking heroin.
[00:31:41]  They're coming back from a fishing trip, blowing their five grand they made on drugs and prostitutes, and then going back out in a boat when they run out of money and sea having because they have no drugs.
[00:31:51]  So they're offshore for 10, 12 days.
[00:31:52]  Wow.
[00:31:53]  And they're freaking detoxing offshore while they're catching fish.
[00:31:56]  They come back, rinse, and repeat the same cycle.
[00:31:58]  Gosh.
[00:31:58]  And the dudes up in the Northeast are like, this is not like this up there.
[00:32:01]  Like, we take care of our people.
[00:32:03]  Like, we.
[00:32:03]  We protect our community.
[00:32:05]  We take care of the ocean and our fish.
[00:32:07]  And it's like a lifestyle, something to be proud of.
[00:32:09]  And it's like the opposite here.
[00:32:10]  Yeah, I'm impressed because I've been following fisheries for a while and you characterized this really well.
[00:32:18]  I didn't have enough time, runtime at NOAA, only three and a half years or so, to address things like that in our fisheries.
[00:32:24]  And I don't even know if I would have had any success based on the structure of the federal government, being NOAA fisheries and what we could do.
[00:32:32]  But that's a problem.
[00:32:33]  You're right about that.
[00:32:34]  And I do respect the way the culture up there in New England.
[00:32:37]  Yeah.
[00:32:37]  The fisheries culture is one that I admire greatly all around the country, really.
[00:32:41]  Alaska, too.
[00:32:42]  Yeah.
[00:32:42]  Oh, yeah.
[00:32:43]  Alaska, definitely.
[00:32:44]  Yeah, big time, right?
[00:32:45]  Like, how could that not be?
[00:32:46]  Like, that's such a cool thing to do.
[00:32:48]  You know what I mean?
[00:32:49]  Like, to say that you do that.
[00:32:50]  No, I haven't.
[00:32:51]  I want to go.
[00:32:52]  You've probably heard that chocolate can cause breakouts.
[00:32:55]  But what if the right kind of chocolate could actually improve the quality of your skin?
[00:33:00]  Clinical studies show that cocoa flavanols, the powerful antioxidants in high quality cocoa, can significantly improve skin hydration.
[00:33:08]  Elasticity, and even reduce the appearance of wrinkles.
[00:33:11]  In one study, participants who consumed flavanol rich cocoa daily for 12 weeks had visibly smoother skin and twice their resistance to UV damage compared to placebo, meaning fewer fine lines, more glow, and actual protection from the inside out.
[00:33:26]  But you'd have to eat so much chocolate to get those actual benefits that the sugar and calories would cancel them out, or worse, lead to breakouts, not to mention the heavy metals like lead and cadmium found in many cocoa products.
[00:33:37]  This is why I drink Morning Being by Verso.
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=== Verso Sponsorship Offer (15:37) ===

[00:34:39]  We could talk for a while.
[00:34:40]  I have a good story there.
[00:34:41]  So, being here, I was, I oversaw NOAA Fisheries.
[00:34:45]  And so there's these things called Fishery Management Councils, they're independent of the government.
[00:34:50]  I, as the administrator, would name members of the council, but they would have certain expertise.
[00:34:55]  And for every region, they would work with NOAA to set the catch limits.
[00:34:59]  And so you have a sort of third party helping make sure this wasn't the government going in heavy handed.
[00:35:05]  And so it's a good system.
[00:35:07]  And ultimately, though, a guy, we named someone to go to the North Pacific Council.
[00:35:13]  And when I went to Alaska, he owned a fishing lodge up there off Juneau, and he invited me to go fishing with him.
[00:35:18]  And I was.
[00:35:19]  Excited.
[00:35:20]  Because I knew that I was assured to get 100 pound salmon and barn door size halibut.
[00:35:29]  And I go up there, and it's this beautiful area of the Lynn Canal, snow capped peaks all around us.
[00:35:34]  And we went for eight hours, and I didn't catch a thing.
[00:35:39]  No.
[00:35:39]  No, I mean, he was trying.
[00:35:40]  He was trying.
[00:35:41]  We were dipping for salmon.
[00:35:43]  We were trawling.
[00:35:44]  I mean, we were trawling for salmon, dipping for the halibut.
[00:35:47]  And I actually caught an arrow tooth flounder, which is this really raggedy looking thing with teeth all around.
[00:35:54]  So imagine a flounder with teeth.
[00:35:56]  Really bizarre creature.
[00:35:56]  Yeah.
[00:35:57]  But I couldn't even keep it.
[00:35:59]  So, anyways.
[00:35:59]  Because it was too, I had to throw it back because it wasn't big enough.
[00:36:03]  Anyways, it was one of the greatest days on the water ever because humpback whales were spouting and sounding all around us.
[00:36:10]  It was glorious.
[00:36:11]  Did you see those tridents that I have laying around here?
[00:36:13]  I saw that one, yeah.
[00:36:14]  You know who Manny Pwig is?
[00:36:16]  You ever heard of Manny Pwig?
[00:36:17]  I know that name.
[00:36:18]  Is he?
[00:36:18]  The shark man.
[00:36:19]  Find a photo of him, Steve.
[00:36:20]  I'm sure you've seen him.
[00:36:21]  He used to be on Jackass, but he.
[00:36:23]  Oh, yes.
[00:36:23]  Okay.
[00:36:24]  He was the guy with the long hair who handles all the.
[00:36:27]  Yeah, him.
[00:36:28]  There you go.
[00:36:28]  He's a legend around here.
[00:36:29]  He lives in Miami.
[00:36:30]  But he made those.
[00:36:32]  He.
[00:36:33]  Did a trip with the jackass guys to or the wild, the show was called Wild Boys, and they went to Alaska and they were looking for orcas.
[00:36:43]  And basically, they found a pod of a giant pod of orcas.
[00:36:46]  He's like, Take me to the front of the pod, and then I'll jump in.
[00:36:49]  What?
[00:36:49]  And he jumped in the water in Alaska with zero visibility in the water.
[00:36:55]  And then he didn't see the orcas until it was like from here to like that TV.
[00:36:58]  Good God, right up to him.
[00:36:59]  The guy's a maniac.
[00:37:01]  Knowing the way orcas treat white sharks, I don't.
[00:37:04]  Think I would have done that.
[00:37:05]  But ultimately, that's cool.
[00:37:07]  I actually did the same.
[00:37:08]  I didn't get in the water, but we saw two pods killer whales on a separate excursion on that trip.
[00:37:14]  They're magnificent animals.
[00:37:15]  Well, there's actually no recorded accounts of orcas attacking and killing humans other than inside of a fish tank at SeaWorld.
[00:37:21]  That's right.
[00:37:22]  Yeah, I know about that.
[00:37:23]  Crazy, right?
[00:37:24]  There's tons of footage of orcas approaching human beings and just checking them out and minding their own business.
[00:37:31]  Very interesting.
[00:37:32]  They don't mess with people.
[00:37:33]  Why is that?
[00:37:33]  Yeah.
[00:37:34]  It's really interesting.
[00:37:35]  Even though you probably heard about the orcas attacking those sailboats off of Spain.
[00:37:40]  Yes, I saw the footage of that.
[00:37:41]  I saw the footage of that.
[00:37:42]  So I don't think.
[00:37:43]  What were those boats doing?
[00:37:44]  They were doing something, right?
[00:37:46]  They were.
[00:37:48]  I don't know.
[00:37:49]  They were fucking with the environment somehow, right?
[00:37:52]  Like they were doing something sketchy.
[00:37:55]  And they might have been like netting.
[00:38:00]  I forget what it was.
[00:38:02]  It was off the coast of Spain.
[00:38:03]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:38:04]  Steve, maybe you can find it.
[00:38:06]  I forget what was going on.
[00:38:08]  Is it this guy?
[00:38:09]  Yeah, I think that's it, right?
[00:38:11]  Click on it.
[00:38:11]  See what it says.
[00:38:12]  Two years ago.
[00:38:12]  Read what the description of it says.
[00:38:13]  Incredible video.
[00:38:15]  Just click on it.
[00:38:17]  Oh, these are just random.
[00:38:18]  This is just like a guy.
[00:38:19]  I thought they were just day sailors or tourists.
[00:38:21]  Oh, maybe you're right.
[00:38:23]  Yeah, I would have remembered if it was something weird.
[00:38:26]  Using sonar.
[00:38:30]  Yeah, that's so.
[00:38:31]  We have a lot to learn.
[00:38:32]  This is the answer there.
[00:38:33]  Well, they're definitely super intelligent.
[00:38:35]  Yeah.
[00:38:36]  Yeah.
[00:38:37]  The way they just.
[00:38:39]  The way they treat white sharks is in terms of just sometimes they'll just play with them and maybe they'll just eat their liver and not.
[00:38:45]  Right.
[00:38:46]  Very interesting.
[00:38:48]  Just the dominance there is impressive.
[00:38:50]  Yeah, I've seen some videos of them attacking white sharks and I've heard about how they eat the liver.
[00:38:55]  It's so strange.
[00:38:58]  Yeah, I mean, if you want to talk about non human intelligence, that is a prime example of it.
[00:39:03]  Well, this is great because I have given talks about this.
[00:39:07]  So people, when we get into that topic of.
[00:39:10]  Aliens, non human intelligence, all you need to do is go scuba dive a coral reef.
[00:39:16]  There is such a diversity of non human intelligence there.
[00:39:20]  And I don't know if you've met Avi Loeb, he's a great guy, and I like the way he thinks.
[00:39:25]  He says, Hey, here you are, here we are.
[00:39:29]  The universe is 14 billion years old.
[00:39:31]  The Earth is 4.6 billion years old.
[00:39:34]  And why would, if life has evolved here, so we know it's a property of the universe, why wouldn't intelligent life have evolved elsewhere?
[00:39:42]  And we see it here, all sorts of non human intelligence on a coral reef and elsewhere.
[00:39:48]  I went diving in the Galapagos for one, and that's remarkable.
[00:39:52]  So why not elsewhere?
[00:39:54]  And I think that's something that resonates with me, that argument.
[00:39:57]  It makes a lot of sense.
[00:39:58]  In fact, he likes to say, Why would it be extraordinary to say there's intelligent life elsewhere?
[00:40:03]  It'd be extraordinary if it weren't.
[00:40:05]  Right.
[00:40:07]  Yeah.
[00:40:07]  Also, the deeper you get in our oceans, the more alien.
[00:40:11]  Oh, my God.
[00:40:11]  Things look.
[00:40:12]  So I love this because this ocean exploration program at NOAA, that's what they do.
[00:40:17]  They go down with a 6,000 meter rated ROV and they're constantly exploring and looking for new species and they're finding them.
[00:40:25]  We are finding new species every year and they're just bizarre.
[00:40:29]  I mean, they are absolutely alien looking.
[00:40:31]  I mean, honestly, Hollywood hasn't dreamed up.
[00:40:34]  Stuff as weird as what we see in the sea.
[00:40:36]  Yeah.
[00:40:37]  Yeah.
[00:40:37]  How deep do those vents get, those thermal vents?
[00:40:39]  How deep are those?
[00:40:41]  Well, they're over at least, well, some are 4,000 meters or more.
[00:40:47]  They're different ones.
[00:40:48]  Right.
[00:40:49]  But ultimately, that life on some of those is very weird because they're chemosynthetic.
[00:40:55]  And so they're not like us.
[00:40:56]  They're not, they're using, I forgot the different chemicals, but they're not necessarily oxygen, they're not oxygen breathing.
[00:41:03]  They derive their energy differently.
[00:41:05]  And that's a good sign of how weird it must be on other planets, too.
[00:41:10]  Yeah.
[00:41:11]  And also, if you want to talk about other planets, I think most of the planets that we're aware of that exist in like a Goldilocks zone that are able to inhabit life are water worlds.
[00:41:23]  So far, you know, I don't think we've been able to characterize the exoplanets that are outside the solar system, but we do know that the moons of, I think there's Europa and Enceladus for Saturn and Jupiter.
[00:41:35]  I forgot which one's which.
[00:41:36]  Oh, the moon.
[00:41:37]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:41:37]  They're both ice covered and they have.
[00:41:39]  They have liquid underneath.
[00:41:41]  And so NASA has actually been funding our ocean exploration program, NOAA's, for that purpose to develop the engineering methods to basically put a deep diving ROV on a probe that can land on the surface, drill through the ice, and then go explore the under the ice oceans of those two.
[00:42:02]  Yeah, interesting, huh?
[00:42:03]  Wow, that is fascinating.
[00:42:05]  Yeah, and we're making so many rapid advances in commercial space.
[00:42:10]  And you look how easy it is to get into space now with what SpaceX has provided, that we might see that in our lifetime.
[00:42:17]  I want to know why we haven't gone back to the moon.
[00:42:19]  That's interesting.
[00:42:21]  Well, obviously, you can see it's hard.
[00:42:22]  And I think it's mostly because the government is big and slow.
[00:42:28]  And we've just burned ourselves with bureaucracy.
[00:42:30]  And I'm pretty much happy with some of the things the current president's doing.
[00:42:33]  But they keep pushing it back every single year.
[00:42:36]  Well, but again, I think commercial space industry is going to.
[00:42:41]  They're going to do it.
[00:42:42]  In fact, we already had, I forgot what was the company that just put a probe on the moon.
[00:42:49]  This is going to happen.
[00:42:50]  It's going to explode in the next decade of commercial companies going out there.
[00:42:53]  China's doing it, by the way.
[00:42:55]  So to the moon?
[00:42:56]  Yeah.
[00:42:57]  So hopefully we can get this Artemis program on step.
[00:43:01]  Yeah.
[00:43:03]  But it's frustrating for those of us who want to see more space exploration.
[00:43:07]  Yeah.
[00:43:07]  It's definitely strange.
[00:43:09]  It's like the only, the Apollo program is the only.
[00:43:14]  Technological program ever developed by any country or company that has not grown at all or not grown exponentially since it was conceived of.
[00:43:26]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:43:27]  Like, look at every other thing.
[00:43:28]  Look at every other technological advancement in the history of man, like whether it be war tech or consumer tech.
[00:43:35]  It's all, if you compare it to what it was in the 70s, it's all like, look at the phone.
[00:43:39]  Yeah.
[00:43:40]  So, did you ever have anyone on your show who said that the whole moon mission was a Yeah, Barksy Brel.
[00:43:47]  I've had that.
[00:43:48]  That's it.
[00:43:48]  Yeah.
[00:43:48]  Yeah.
[00:43:49]  So, are you convinced?
[00:43:52]  I think if I had a gun to my head, I would say it was faked.
[00:44:00]  Would you?
[00:44:01]  I don't know.
[00:44:03]  I think it's complicated.
[00:44:04]  I think that it's possible that also, if they did make it, if they did go, I think they probably had a backup plan, like backup footage of it.
[00:44:14]  Or, even if they did go, maybe they weren't able to get the cameras and the film through the radiation belt, right?
[00:44:19]  It could have been destroyed.
[00:44:20]  Destroyed by the radiation.
[00:44:21]  So it's like we went, but how do we prove it?
[00:44:23]  Well, let's get this soundstage and let's record some stuff and make it look like we went.
[00:44:29]  Yeah.
[00:44:29]  You know, there's just so many questions.
[00:44:32]  And like the way, I have people come on here all the time and tell me completely obscene, like crazy, outlandish things that they come with evidence for and it seems compelling and reasonable.
[00:44:45]  And then I'll have somebody come in and then completely show me how that's all full, you know, complete bullshit and preposterous.
[00:44:52]  And with Counter evidence.
[00:44:54]  But the moon one is one that I haven't seen any plausible counter evidence or hard evidence to refute what the skeptics say.
[00:45:03]  So, until I can get an Apollo astronaut on here to debate him, I don't know.
[00:45:07]  I'm still up in the air with it.
[00:45:09]  I don't know.
[00:45:11]  It's funny because I lean towards it happened.
[00:45:14]  But the more I get into this UAP topic and the government cover up, the more I'm inclined to believe almost anything in terms of the government fabricating a story.
[00:45:23]  Right.
[00:45:24]  The problem is because there's all this national interest for doing so.
[00:45:27]  We wouldn't want the Russians to make us think that we weren't ahead of them.
[00:45:31]  Right.
[00:45:31]  There's a ton of reason to do that.
[00:45:33]  And the more I watch the government and having played in it at the high level I was at NOAA, I see how that spin doctoring occurs every day.
[00:45:41]  Right.
[00:45:42]  And it's a fine line between what is promoting American greatness versus what's lying about what we're really doing.
[00:45:49]  Sure.
[00:45:50]  There's big questions, man.
[00:45:51]  I mean, for one thing, there's so much stigma attached to questioning the mood landing, you're automatically a fool.
[00:45:57]  If you're un-American.
[00:45:58]  Completely.
[00:45:59]  Yeah.
[00:46:00]  And the other thing about it is that time, smack dab in the middle of the Cold War, when JFK was killed, when we were doing MKUltra experiments with drugs on people to do mind control and Watergate, I mean, you name it, we were doing more, the U.S. government and intelligence agencies were doing more deception and lying to the American people than ever before in recorded history.
[00:46:24]  Very good point.
[00:46:25]  And the moon landing happened right in the middle of it.
[00:46:26]  Yeah.
[00:46:27]  Is that the only thing that they did that was legit?
[00:46:29]  I mean, there's a pretty strong record of lying to the public right there.
[00:46:33]  Yes.
[00:46:33]  You just brought up.
[00:46:34]  Totally.
[00:46:35]  Yeah.
[00:46:36]  Wow.
[00:46:36]  So, yeah.
[00:46:37]  I mean, I don't know.
[00:46:38]  I would love to.
[00:46:40]  And then the other day, I watched this crazy documentary called Room 237, I think it's called.
[00:46:48]  It's a documentary all about the hidden Easter eggs inside of the Shining movie.
[00:46:57]  What?
[00:46:58]  Because, okay, so this is crazy.
[00:46:59]  So we were addicts of that movie, by the way, my family.
[00:47:02]  Oh, really?
[00:47:03]  So, Room 237 is a documentary about The Shining, and Stanley Kubrick allegedly implemented some hidden messages in that movie.
[00:47:15]  So, these people that made this documentary, I think for sure they're making connections that don't exist.
[00:47:21]  They're going way too far with it.
[00:47:23]  But there are maybe 25 to 30% of the things in that documentary that I think are totally legit.
[00:47:30]  For instance, there's this shot.
[00:47:32]  So, Room 237, basically, in that movie, That's what they call the moon room.
[00:47:38]  So, all this stuff happens in that room that doesn't happen anywhere else.
[00:47:41]  It's 237, which was in the 70s and 80s.
[00:47:47]  We thought it was exactly 237,000 miles to the moon.
[00:47:51]  Since then, we've developed better sensing equipment to figure out it's like 900 more miles than that.
[00:47:56]  We were like 1,000 miles off.
[00:47:59]  And then there's also a thing like the manager of the hotel looks just like John F. Kennedy in that movie.
[00:48:04]  Oh.
[00:48:04]  There's weird sorts.
[00:48:06]  Of inconsistencies with the continuity in that movie, where there's like obvious things where the carpet pattern changes from one shot to the other and other things disappear.
[00:48:15]  And like he's arguing with his wife about, don't you know about contracts?
[00:48:18]  Don't you know about secrecy?
[00:48:20]  I can't, you like, he's fighting with his wife about living these two separate lives.
[00:48:24]  And what they're speculating is that Stanley Kubrick's using this as like, he's using that movie to like sort of like tell people what really happened.
[00:48:31]  And there's also a famous photo that you can find if you dig hard enough, Steve.
[00:48:37]  I was showing this to Rogan the other day of Stanley Kubrick on the set of 2001 A Space Odyssey, walking between the sound stages in Europe, and Jolly West is behind him, walking behind him.
[00:48:51]  Jolly West is the CIA guy who was a part of MKUltra.
[00:48:58]  Oh, right.
[00:49:00]  I think he was a psychologist, a CIA psychologist.
[00:49:03]  I could be wrong, but he was doing stuff with drugs.
[00:49:05]  He was basically.
[00:49:06]  Oh, yes.
[00:49:07]  He was a part of the whole MKUltra thing.
[00:49:09]  Find out what his actual title was.
[00:49:10]  I don't want to mess it up.
[00:49:11]  But he was there for MKUltra and he was there.
[00:49:14]  He was the guy who interviewed Jack Ruby right before he had the psychotic break.
[00:49:20]  So, Jolly West is a very scary person who was involved in a lot of the most deceptive things that ever happened.
[00:49:29]  No, that's not it, Steve.
[00:49:32]  Jamie found it in five minutes, Steve.
[00:49:33]  Come on.
[00:49:36]  You can do it.
[00:49:38]  So, anyways, we got off on a crazy tangent about.
[00:49:41]  The moon landing.
[00:49:42]  Well, and I bring that up because of what's happened recently.
[00:49:45]  And we kind of, I know we were vaulting ahead on UAP, and we could talk about why I care.
[00:49:51]  Right.
[00:49:51]  But ultimately, that's what's just recently, you probably read those two Wall Street Journal articles.
[00:49:57]  I did.
[00:49:57]  And total fabrication.
[00:49:59]  And I know this 100% certainty.
[00:50:01]  I actually wrote one op ed in The Hill about it with Chris Mellon.
[00:50:04]  I saw that.
[00:50:05]  And I have another one in draft.
[00:50:07]  And The Hill rejected it.
[00:50:08]  I'm trying to get it actually in.
[00:50:10]  So explain to people who aren't familiar what was the premise of that Wall Street Journal article that came out?
[00:50:15]  There's two of them.

=== False Russian Torpedo Claims (14:59) ===

[00:50:16]  Okay.
[00:50:16]  And they both basically are trying to debunk that UFOs are real.
[00:50:21]  That ultimately, the first one talked about the fact that we were doing advanced technology developments, and to cover it, we were planning false narratives out there about UFOs.
[00:50:35]  And we were tricking our own Air Force officers into believing it was a real program and they'd go to jail if they ever admitted it being a UFO retrieval program.
[00:50:46]  And the article basically said it was just a.
[00:50:49]  A hoax, a prank, and that was the first one.
[00:50:52]  The second one was regarded some of the materials, crash retrieved materials.
[00:50:58]  And ultimately, they mischaracterized an article by Leslie Keene and Ralph Blumenthal about that.
[00:51:06]  And both of them, at a high level, were trying to discredit any validity with both the UAP programs, the legacy program of retrieving materials, and that was it.
[00:51:22]  Both of them were doing that.
[00:51:24]  And if you look at the details, there were so many errors in these.
[00:51:28]  It was all false reporting.
[00:51:30]  We tore it apart, Chris Mellon and I, the first one.
[00:51:32]  The second one, in fact, was the same.
[00:51:35]  And I wrote a letter to the editor and so did Chris Mellon, and she disregarded us.
[00:51:39]  She never answered.
[00:51:40]  And the key thing about this is, and I don't like disparaging individuals, but it's, I guess, a key thing about this is the former Aero director, Sean Kirkpatrick, who's the primary source for these.
[00:51:53]  And he has a history of.
[00:51:57]  Discrediting whistleblowers.
[00:52:00]  And that's just true.
[00:52:01]  He's done that.
[00:52:02]  So have others.
[00:52:03]  And the thing that was most kind of telling for me is that after I testified to the House Oversight Committee in November of 2024 about what I knew, and you could go look at my statement and my observations and experience with the Theodore Roosevelt strike group and the videos that were subsequently released, that, and I talked about that.
[00:52:26]  I also talked about visiting Arrow and how they were, they were, Discrediting other whistleblowers during my meeting with them.
[00:52:32]  They actually, here was the crazy thing, and this is still out there.
[00:52:35]  They said that Nimitz Tic Tac event was actually a U.S. tech demo.
[00:52:39]  And there's a lot of reasons I think that's a lot of BS.
[00:52:43]  Really?
[00:52:44]  Oh, yeah.
[00:52:44]  Because, first of all.
[00:52:45]  I was kind of under the.
[00:52:46]  I kind of thought it was U.S. secret tech, black budget stuff.
[00:52:50]  There's a lot of people saying this, but here's my point.
[00:52:53]  And first of all, I know the four witnesses.
[00:52:55]  I've talked to two of them, Dave Fravor and Alex Dietrich.
[00:52:59]  And this is beyond.
[00:53:01]  The acceleration was beyond anything they've seen.
[00:53:03]  You know, Dave Fravor is great.
[00:53:04]  I like him, Navy pilot.
[00:53:05]  I work with these guys.
[00:53:06]  He said, I don't know what that was, but I want to fly it, you know.
[00:53:11]  And of course, but ultimately, so he couldn't imagine anything that we had like that with the instantaneous acceleration that would have obliterated any material or person, person, pilot.
[00:53:22]  And the second thing is this that was 2004.
[00:53:25]  If we had some capability like that in terms of transportation or movement, We would have used it on the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan to save lives.
[00:53:36]  And if we didn't, and if that was US tech, then there's some real irresponsible actors out there.
[00:53:41]  So I really, that's why I highly doubt it was.
[00:53:45]  Yeah.
[00:53:47]  But that's what the Arrow Office was throwing at me.
[00:53:50]  And actually, I visited them after Sean Kirkpatrick left.
[00:53:53]  But the point being here is that in the Wall Street Journal articles that Sean was a primary source, after my testimony, he made a statement, and you could see it on Twitter, I think it was published, where he said this about me.
[00:54:07]  He said, Well, Mr. Gallaudet's obviously bitter that when he came to Arrow, I wouldn't give him a job.
[00:54:15]  And I know that that's because he was prone to conspiracy theories without evidence.
[00:54:19]  And I verify that when I ask some of his bosses.
[00:54:24]  Okay, let me kind of set the record straight.
[00:54:26]  That was his statement, public statement.
[00:54:28]  He wrote it.
[00:54:29]  I never went there when he was there.
[00:54:31]  I went there months after he left.
[00:54:34]  And I didn't go there looking for a job.
[00:54:35]  I actually went there on request of the Navy liaison, a friend of mine in the Pentagon for years.
[00:54:41]  He asked me to visit.
[00:54:43]  And so there's that.
[00:54:44]  First, and why would I?
[00:54:46]  Now, if you recall, I was an undersecretary in the Department of Commerce.
[00:54:51]  That's higher than the four star service chiefs.
[00:54:54]  So for me to go groveling for a GS14 job at Arrow is a little bit absurd.
[00:55:01]  And then lastly, when he says, Oh, I checked with my bosses to prove that I was prone to conspiracy theories.
[00:55:07]  So in the last 15 years, my bosses have been two two star admirals, four four star admirals, and the commerce secretary.
[00:55:16]  And I'm in communication with all of them except for the secretary.
[00:55:18]  And if Sean went to them, they would have told me.
[00:55:23]  So he basically, those are outright lies about me.
[00:55:27]  Here I am.
[00:55:28]  I'm just out to serve here and try to.
[00:55:29]  So, what?
[00:55:31]  Why did he do that?
[00:55:31]  Why is he doing this?
[00:55:33]  Of course.
[00:55:33]  This is what you do when you want to cover up something.
[00:55:37]  You tell a false narrative.
[00:55:39]  It's what we do when we spy on other countries.
[00:55:41]  We don't admit that we're spying on other countries, possibly with covert ops in their territorial seas, but we do it all the time.
[00:55:49]  We know we do.
[00:55:50]  So, that's the nature of.
[00:55:53]  Of classification and compartmental programs is we never acknowledge them.
[00:55:58]  And we'll often say they don't exist outright.
[00:56:01]  And so that's just part of the UAP cover up.
[00:56:04]  And I'm convinced that they've decided and they believe they're right.
[00:56:09]  So I'm not going to throw shade on their intentions.
[00:56:12]  I think they believe it's a national security interest to keep UAP information and materials classified.
[00:56:19]  Where I think a little differently, I think, yes, let's keep the tech classified.
[00:56:23]  So much is out there now, and with the UAP Disclosure Act, the genie's out of the bottle.
[00:56:29]  And the American people, they have a right to know the nature of reality and the fact that we're not alone, we're being visited.
[00:56:36]  It's scary to admit that as a government because we can't control our airspace or water space, but it's the nature of reality now.
[00:56:42]  And more and more people, people like you, are helping tell the story.
[00:56:46]  And there's a story out there the American people should know, and we just have to be careful about how we communicate it.
[00:56:52]  And I believe what's in this UAP Disclosure Act.
[00:56:56]  Through a process of controlled disclosure, does that in the right way?
[00:57:00]  Yeah.
[00:57:01]  Well, I mean, going to that Wall Street Journal article, one of the things about it is so bad.
[00:57:08]  Like the excuses they gave in that article, for example, like the Maelstrom Air Force Base thing that they were saying it was an EMP that they were testing.
[00:57:18]  That was so artificial.
[00:57:19]  It was like, couldn't be done.
[00:57:20]  Right.
[00:57:21]  Yeah.
[00:57:21]  And Jesse Michaels did a beautiful video on this.
[00:57:23]  People I recommend people check out.
[00:57:25]  He pointed out, like, All the people behind the scenes working on this.
[00:57:28]  And like, there was a lady who was a source for this article who was quite literally, he looked up her LinkedIn.
[00:57:33]  She worked for Booz Allen Hamilton in the Department of Psychological Warfare.
[00:57:39]  Yeah.
[00:57:39]  Oh, yeah.
[00:57:40]  And she was the source for this article.
[00:57:42]  So, like, and there was a lot of other really shady people that were working for this article.
[00:57:49]  One of the guys who was one of the main sources on this topic for the Wall Street Journal was super sketchy.
[00:57:54]  I forget his name.
[00:57:55]  But, and then like, also saying that all this UFO stuff with all these people in history, like, You know, going back to Bob Lazar all the way up to David Grush was hazing rituals.
[00:58:05]  Yeah.
[00:58:05]  Yeah.
[00:58:06]  So if these are hazing rituals and these people are going through all this psychological trauma, I think there's like a big class action lawsuit that's coming down the pike.
[00:58:13]  I don't think they thought this through.
[00:58:16]  No, it's true.
[00:58:16]  Because there's all these legal issues with it if it were true.
[00:58:19]  And it's so obviously false.
[00:58:22]  It's lazy.
[00:58:22]  Yeah.
[00:58:23]  It was very, in fact, you're right.
[00:58:24]  I thought it was pretty inept.
[00:58:27]  And, but also, there's some key people who've been following this issue for some time.
[00:58:32]  For example, Kirk McConnell, who had been.
[00:58:34]  On several Senate committees.
[00:58:37]  He's a senior staffer for the Intelligence Committee and the Armed Forces Committees in the Senate.
[00:58:43]  And he'd been involved with this topic for years, at a classified level, 37 years, by the way.
[00:58:49]  And he hasn't heard of this whole hazing thing once.
[00:58:53]  Right.
[00:58:53]  So it's just obviously false.
[00:58:55]  And it was, again, it was made for the average American to potentially just basically cast a little doubt and stigma on the issue.
[00:59:04]  And a lot of average Americans don't think this through.
[00:59:07]  And so they see a Wall Street Journal publication and think, nah, okay, there you go.
[00:59:12]  UFOs are a hoax.
[00:59:13]  Right.
[00:59:13]  Hey guys, if you're not already subscribed, please hammer the subscribe button below and hit the like button on the video.
[00:59:18]  Back to the show.
[00:59:19]  Yeah, no, there's so, I mean, To be one of those officers that are working on those ICBM bases, like Maelstrom Air Force Base, you have to be like the top of the top as far as like being a mentally sane, stable human being.
[00:59:36]  That's absolutely screened for.
[00:59:37]  In fact, because there are all these reasons that for nuclear security, you wouldn't want someone who's unstable.
[00:59:43]  That's another great point.
[00:59:44]  Jesse's fantastic on this.
[00:59:45]  He does his homework.
[00:59:47]  And then there are the people who've written about it.
[00:59:50]  So I think you probably know about Robert Hastings.
[00:59:53]  Of course, yeah.
[00:59:53]  UFOs and nukes.
[00:59:54]  That's right.
[00:59:55]  Great book.
[00:59:55]  I read it.
[00:59:56]  I'm basically, I stay in touch with him every week and we communicate about shared interests.
[01:00:01]  And here he's done it.
[01:00:02]  You go, you read the book and he did the research and the Wall Street Journal did not.
[01:00:09]  Right.
[01:00:10]  Yeah.
[01:00:11]  And that has been always one of my biggest fascinations because if these things are sighted all around our nuclear sites on land, what the hell are they doing with the submarines underwater that are loaded to the gills with nukes?
[01:00:27]  And they are all throughout the oceans.
[01:00:30]  Yeah.
[01:00:31]  So, like, if I'm one of these guys who spends months on a nuclear submarine in the ocean, I'm sure these guys have to have some incredible stories.
[01:00:45]  Some of them do, but I've never heard one.
[01:00:46]  I've never heard one story.
[01:00:47]  There's a reason for that.
[01:00:49]  So, first off, it's interesting.
[01:00:51]  Let's just look at the data.
[01:00:52]  A lot of these events have happened around nuclear powered aircraft carriers, right?
[01:00:57]  Theodore Roosevelt, Nimitz.
[01:00:59]  So that's a lot of activity there.
[01:01:04]  And I have had one report from an officer who was on a boomer, some ballistic missile submarine in the North Atlantic, who observed a contact.
[01:01:12]  I've shared this before, but really quickly.
[01:01:14]  It had the characteristics of basically a Russian torpedo in terms of closing fast and at a high rate of speed and coming at the submarine.
[01:01:24]  And in an area they wouldn't have expected it.
[01:01:27]  Crap procedures to avoid it.
[01:01:29]  They turned around, they dove deep to nearly crushed depth.
[01:01:33]  And when the object got close to them, it stopped and it kind of went around to their stern and followed them for a while and then rapidly exited the area.
[01:01:42]  And he's not sure what to make of that, but there shouldn't have been anything there because it was in the North Atlantic during a 40 foot seas.
[01:01:51]  And so that's when there's high ambient noise.
[01:01:53]  Wow.
[01:01:53]  They never, nothing could detect them.
[01:01:56]  Subs, those subs are quiet.
[01:01:58]  And when there's really high ambient noise, they're undetectable.
[01:02:01]  So, that couldn't have been a Russian torpedo or high speed submersible that hadn't even been built yet.
[01:02:09]  So, there's nothing he could explain it.
[01:02:11]  But I've not heard a lot of other reports from submariners because that is such a classified area.
[01:02:19]  It's nuclear security and it's undersea security.
[01:02:24]  Those are the most highly classified programs in the government.
[01:02:27]  And so, I've not been able to crack into them.
[01:02:29]  I was tangentially read into some of that.
[01:02:32]  And so, I know about.
[01:02:33]  That, but nothing regarding UAP.
[01:02:36]  But if anything about UAP in the water is, is that data resides anywhere, it's in those programs and they are locked tight.
[01:02:44]  Yeah.
[01:02:44]  There's this guy who Jesse also interviewed, Harold Mallingrum.
[01:02:47]  Yeah.
[01:02:48]  Who said to him, the Office of Naval Intelligence has more data on this stuff than anybody?
[01:02:54]  Well, right.
[01:02:54]  And he referred to the, I believe, the National.
[01:02:57]  More than the Air Force.
[01:02:58]  Yeah.
[01:02:58]  National Underwater Reconnaissance Office.
[01:03:01]  Yes.
[01:03:01]  Yes.
[01:03:02]  So that's it.
[01:03:02]  I know about them.
[01:03:04]  But again, I've not been able to see that information.
[01:03:08]  He's very credible.
[01:03:09]  And his daughter also served, I think, in the Bush administration and the Reagan administration.
[01:03:14]  And her name is Pippa.
[01:03:16]  And she's terrific, too.
[01:03:17]  He was right on.
[01:03:19]  In fact, that's interesting.
[01:03:19]  I've been working on this whole topic of the.
[01:03:22]  The nuke detonations that brought down some UFOs.
[01:03:26]  And that's what Harold had also talked about.
[01:03:29]  Right.
[01:03:29]  Yes.
[01:03:30]  And there's a lot of data there too.
[01:03:31]  So, like, if you're, so, I mean, also a weird thing about being one of those guys on the submarines is like, you can't really see it.
[01:03:39]  Now, are you relying on radar or how does that work?
[01:03:42]  Well, what other kinds of tools do they have?
[01:03:43]  Sonar.
[01:03:44]  So, how accurate can you get with something?
[01:03:46]  Like, how much can you find out about an object that's around a submarine, but with just the tools that they have available to them?
[01:03:52]  It's difficult.
[01:03:54]  And you don't want to go active.
[01:03:55]  So, active is how you can really characterize how large it is and potentially even its shape, but that's going to reveal your locations.
[01:04:04]  That's something submarines generally don't do.
[01:04:06]  Going active.
[01:04:07]  Using active sonar, meaning pinging, sending out a transducer.
[01:04:11]  So they're making themselves, their location available to other subs.
[01:04:15]  And you can use that.
[01:04:16]  I did my PhD work on this.
[01:04:17]  You can use an active sonar signal, bounce it off an object, and it comes back.
[01:04:21]  And you can use that just like radar.
[01:04:24]  Same principle, but with sound instead of.
[01:04:26]  EM energy to characterize an object, its shape, if it's moving, if it's in its structure.
[01:04:33]  And we have high frequency sonars that do this really well.
[01:04:37]  In fact, we use them to map the seafloor and characterize shipwrecks.
[01:04:40]  Manoa does great work.
[01:04:42]  But again, submarines generally don't want to do that because that reveals their location.
[01:04:47]  So they normally are staying passive.
[01:04:49]  And it's very difficult to characterize an object passive because you're only.
[01:04:55]  Measure or you're only hearing the sound they admit, which is either from engineering or flow noise around the hull of the vessel or vehicle.
[01:05:06]  That incident you were just explaining to me where they thought it was a Russian torpedo, did they go active there?
[01:05:10]  No, no.
[01:05:11]  Whoa.
[01:05:12]  So they were just listening and they again dived into it.
[01:05:15]  They dove super deep though.

=== Passive Sonar Limitations (15:26) ===

[01:05:16]  Yeah.
[01:05:16]  And they thought they were getting treated.
[01:05:18]  Seriously so.
[01:05:19]  They were convinced they were going to get hit.
[01:05:20]  They were doing all the things to prepare for getting hit and doing the damage control necessary.
[01:05:26]  Yeah, because they'd never seen anything like this.
[01:05:28]  And they had trained for Russian torpedo attacks.
[01:05:31]  This was everything like it.
[01:05:33]  So he called me up after I went public on this information because he said, I just got to tell you about this experience.
[01:05:39]  So we stay in touch.
[01:05:40]  There was another one I think I shared about it also, where someone has called me up and said, Hey, I was one of these acoustic intelligence specialists, and we were on one of these ships that does this.
[01:05:53]  They look for enemy submarines by doing two things.
[01:05:56]  First, they send out a, it's called a, It's a high energy active pulse, and then they listen in low frequency.
[01:06:05]  It's low frequency active, they call it.
[01:06:07]  So, a high energy, low frequency pulse, long range, and it'll always get a bounce off a submarine.
[01:06:13]  And that's how you find them.
[01:06:14]  And then what you do is you listen passively to characterize the type of contact.
[01:06:20]  So, every type of adversary platform, whether it be a Russian submarine or a Chinese submarine, we know their signature.
[01:06:29]  We know how, and it's by the halt.
[01:06:32]  The actual hull number.
[01:06:34]  We know they sound like each the screws, the engineering equipment, the flow noise.
[01:06:38]  It's pretty good.
[01:06:39]  It's kind of like your fingerprints acoustically.
[01:06:44]  Again, that's some of the most classified information out there.
[01:06:48]  Because we can't, if we reveal that, we reveal our sources, the people who found this information, and that would get them killed.
[01:06:56]  But this is how we, that's how we in the field know, ah, that's the Russian whatever.
[01:07:00]  And so that's what we've done.
[01:07:02]  The whole Cold War was built on that.
[01:07:03]  Some of Blind Man's Bluff is about that.
[01:07:06]  But ultimately, this guy shared with me that he was out there in Japan in the, I forgot, 2000s, and they found twice a really loud hit when they went active.
[01:07:15]  And they switched on to passive.
[01:07:16]  And this is what they do.
[01:07:18]  Every time they'll get a passive hit and they know, okay, it was either exercise they did on one of our subs or they're out there listening for Chinese.
[01:07:25]  Ah, it's one of theirs.
[01:07:26]  And they had nothing.
[01:07:27]  There's no passive hit.
[01:07:30]  But they had a super loud active hit.
[01:07:33]  What does that mean?
[01:07:34]  What does that mean?
[01:07:35]  It means there was something big in the water moving because it wasn't there later and it had no engineering components making noise.
[01:07:43]  What the fuck is that?
[01:07:45]  And then it was gone.
[01:07:45]  It was in the water column.
[01:07:47]  So, what is it?
[01:07:48]  Whales don't do this, by the way.
[01:07:49]  They're soft.
[01:07:50]  They don't reflect sound pulses at that kind of amplitude or that source level.
[01:07:56]  So, it's a, again, these are people who had anomalous observations and experiences.
[01:08:00]  And after I testified, they just wanted to call me and say, hey, I saw this.
[01:08:04]  In fact, non underwater, but very cool.
[01:08:07]  After my last testimony, probably one of the neatest encounters or eyewitness encounters I have was this.
[01:08:14]  I went and gave a talk.
[01:08:16]  I always say yes to anybody, any university who wants me to talk about this topic, because that's how we're going to.
[01:08:21]  That's how we're going to turn the tide.
[01:08:24]  It's the next generation who are not so stigmatized about this.
[01:08:27]  So, any university I go, I went to Yale, they have a UFO society, and I give a talk.
[01:08:32]  And this guy comes down, he's getting his graduate degree, and he goes, Hey, I want to tell you a story.
[01:08:36]  Okay.
[01:08:37]  He said, I was a Navy air crew on S 860 Seahawk helicopter flying off the Dwight D. Eisenhower in 2021.
[01:08:45]  And he said, You know, a lot of the guys had filmed on forward looking infrared UAP.
[01:08:53]  In fact, they had a folder on their secret drive and they called it range foulers.
[01:08:58]  And this is a funny term because it's so the term in the Navy for anything not right, like a fouled anchor, then you use that for everything.
[01:09:08]  Okay, foul the range, right?
[01:09:11]  Like a fouled anchor.
[01:09:13]  And what's fouling the range?
[01:09:14]  UFOs.
[01:09:15]  So they had this whole file on all these UFO videos they had taken.
[01:09:18]  And they kind of used that name as a sort of joke, but ultimately they were keeping track of this stuff.
[01:09:24]  And so everybody knew about it, but it was.
[01:09:26]  No one talked about it in the ready room.
[01:09:28]  The skipper said, Hey, we're not, we all know it exists.
[01:09:32]  We're just going to live with it.
[01:09:34]  No one really is asking us to report it.
[01:09:36]  And so, but then there was a point in 2021 where the Joint Chiefs, based on pressure from Congress, directed everyone to start reporting.
[01:09:43]  So that's what they started doing collecting the videos, sharing them with the intelligence officer, with DIA.
[01:09:48]  And he said one night he was getting, there was going to be a drill to do a man overboard.
[01:09:54]  And that's where they normally off a healthcare carrier, you don't.
[01:09:57]  You don't launch a boat, you launch a helicopter.
[01:10:00]  It's a lot safer and easier.
[01:10:01]  It's harder to really, yeah.
[01:10:03]  You don't launch a boat off a helicopter because the flight deck is something like 60 feet off the waterline, right?
[01:10:08]  So, that's what that's the MO.
[01:10:09]  You launch a helicopter to recover the man overboard, okay?
[01:10:13]  So, this was his job, he was a crew chief, and there he thought there was going to be an exercise.
[01:10:16]  Well, he got woken up one night and they didn't say it was an exercise, so he got he thought, Oh my god, it's a real world event.
[01:10:22]  What had happened is he's waiting to get the plane ready, and one of the pilots had some NVGs and he asked him, What's going on?
[01:10:29]  He goes, Put these on.
[01:10:33]  Look up there, and he saw flying over the character, really just slowly moving laterally, a metallic sphere about the size of a smart car, just moving slowly, like the Mosul orb, like that, but at night.
[01:10:48]  And everyone was tracking it.
[01:10:49]  Basically, it was in the middle of the strike group, and everybody was basically saying, What the heck is that?
[01:10:55]  So they launched the Hilo to get video of it.
[01:10:58]  And his crew chief has taken video of this thing, and it's just moving slowly.
[01:11:02]  There's no Signs of propulsion or flight control surfaces, just a sphere.
[01:11:08]  And then after a time, it did what all these UFOs do it just accelerated instantaneously and went over the horizon.
[01:11:15]  Wow.
[01:11:15]  And he said, not only did that happen a lot, he said that the guys in this other squadron that embarked on the Gerald Ford, the other carrier that deployed after them, happened all the time too.
[01:11:28]  So the Navy is sitting on a trove of UFO data, videos.
[01:11:35]  Just as you said, ONI is.
[01:11:36]  I mean, these are all sources coming to me saying it's all there and it's all real.
[01:11:41]  There was also a video that I saw.
[01:11:43]  I don't remember off what ship it was, but there was a video of like this orb hovering above the waves and you could hear people talking about it in the background.
[01:11:53]  They're like, da And then they splash, like, oh, it splashed down, it splashed down, or whatever, like disappeared.
[01:11:57]  Let me tell you about that.
[01:11:58]  This is great because the petty officer on the bridge of that ship, the USS Omaha, Omaha, okay.
[01:12:05]  He's come out actually.
[01:12:06]  Oh, really?
[01:12:07]  Yeah.
[01:12:07]  His name is Senior Chief Petty Officer Alex Wiggins.
[01:12:10]  And he came to me.
[01:12:11]  So, after my, at one point, I think maybe the Sean Ryan show I was on or something, and he basically wanted to make that report to me.
[01:12:19]  He was on the bridge then.
[01:12:20]  And what's interesting is I know how it is on a bridge, and the procedure is that's like a code word.
[01:12:26]  It wasn't just, they weren't saying, hey, it's splashed in the water.
[01:12:29]  If an object is seen to enter the water, typically it's because it crashed an aircraft or possibly a decoy or something.
[01:12:38]  That's sort of a code word to use in the Navy that something is encountered in the water.
[01:12:42]  And so, That's why they said splash.
[01:12:44]  Like that is a term that the log keeper put in the log.
[01:12:49]  So it's official.
[01:12:50]  It's not just, oh, it's splash.
[01:12:51]  It's actually an official term.
[01:12:52]  And so when that happened, and that's why it was so weird because it wasn't a helicopter.
[01:12:56]  It was hovering, but you didn't see blades.
[01:12:59]  It was spherical and it went into the water.
[01:13:03]  What's up with that?
[01:13:04]  That's it.
[01:13:04]  That's it.
[01:13:05]  That's right there.
[01:13:06]  Give us some volume.
[01:13:09]  Oh, yeah.
[01:13:11]  They're on the Omaha.
[01:13:12]  These are people.
[01:13:13]  These are my people.
[01:13:13]  I stood many hours at Bridge Watch.
[01:13:16]  Oh, look, he's filming the screen.
[01:13:18]  Whoever made this video, they're filming another monitor.
[01:13:20]  Yeah, yeah, that's right.
[01:13:21]  Did they get in trouble for that?
[01:13:27]  So far, not that I know of.
[01:13:28]  Helo ASAP.
[01:13:30]  Helo ASAP?
[01:13:31]  Yeah, they wanted to go interrogate the target.
[01:13:44]  Is this boat moving right now?
[01:13:45]  Yes, she was underway.
[01:13:46]  Okay.
[01:13:47]  Yeah, we have 31 knots sustained wind topside gusts of wind.
[01:13:57]  31 knots.
[01:13:58]  That's pretty windy.
[01:13:58]  That's windy.
[01:13:59]  Splashed.
[01:14:00]  Mark bearing and range.
[01:14:02]  Yep, they're following their standard procedures.
[01:14:04]  Good job, guys.
[01:14:05]  That's wild.
[01:14:06]  So I have been on the bridges of several ships, hours, hundreds, thousands of hours of bridge wash.
[01:14:12]  So those are folks I supervised.
[01:14:15]  And that petty officer who was on the wash there called me, talked to me about that experience.
[01:14:19]  He said we were seeing them all the time.
[01:14:21]  He said, Really?
[01:14:22]  He said, Sir, These are so frequent off SoCal, we're desensitized to it.
[01:14:27]  What?
[01:14:28]  Yes, seriously.
[01:14:29]  And then, and so you might have seen Jeremy Corbell had released video from the USS Jackson, same petty officer who gave it to him.
[01:14:37]  Because he came to me and he actually shared me on signal that video.
[01:14:41]  And Jeremy, of course, said, I'd love to talk to him.
[01:14:44]  And I asked him, Are you okay with that?
[01:14:46]  And he said, Sure.
[01:14:47]  So he shared.
[01:14:48]  Is this guy still active?
[01:14:49]  He's still active duty.
[01:14:50]  Yeah.
[01:14:51]  I'm a little surprised, but that he hasn't been outed.
[01:14:54]  They don't know that he's the one that's.
[01:14:56]  Well, he did it as a private citizen.
[01:14:59]  I know he talked to the Navy lawyers.
[01:15:01]  Yeah.
[01:15:02]  Which are probably a lot looser than the Air Force lawyers.
[01:15:05]  So, either way, he got it cleared.
[01:15:07]  And I know.
[01:15:08]  I think that's really significant.
[01:15:10]  I need to have a talk with him about that.
[01:15:11]  But a terrific guy.
[01:15:13]  And he's one of many sailors right now, former or still active duty, that are seeing these things.
[01:15:20]  And yeah, and that's what I've been trying to do.
[01:15:21]  What do these guys think they are?
[01:15:22]  Do you talk to them about it?
[01:15:23]  Like, what do you think about it?
[01:15:24]  What do you guys talk about on the flight deck?
[01:15:27]  It's like everybody in the public.
[01:15:30]  It's a range of ideas, and some people really care.
[01:15:33]  That one crew chief who came to me after he left the Navy, he said this really affected him because normally he'd heard talk of it, but he'd never seen it.
[01:15:41]  And when he saw it, he realized, like I did, when I saw the video of the Go Fast when it was still classified, I immediately knew that's not ours.
[01:15:49]  That's not our adversary tech because I know adversary tech.
[01:15:51]  I've read into all that stuff.
[01:15:53]  And we're not alone.
[01:15:55]  There's something I don't know what they're doing, don't know their intent, especially with nukes.
[01:15:59]  That's pretty scary, but we're being monitored.
[01:16:03]  I'm skeptical of the Go Fast and the Gimbal videos.
[01:16:07]  Oh, no.
[01:16:07]  No, I'm not at all.
[01:16:08]  Really?
[01:16:09]  No.
[01:16:09]  I mean, I saw the Go Fast.
[01:16:10]  I mean, that's, by the way, if you look at the Go Fast, yeah, it wasn't going that fast.
[01:16:16]  Okay.
[01:16:16]  It was just, it's just relative.
[01:16:17]  But the point of.
[01:16:19]  For the reason is the plane is flying really fast in one direction.
[01:16:22]  Yeah.
[01:16:22]  And there's something flying the opposite direction.
[01:16:24]  And with the parallax of the ocean behind it, it's totally plausible.
[01:16:27]  It looked like it was going 1,000 miles per hour.
[01:16:29]  Yeah.
[01:16:29]  But it was nicknamed the Go Fast.
[01:16:33]  That wasn't what was anomalous about it.
[01:16:35]  So, Ryan Graves, have you had him on your show?
[01:16:37]  I have.
[01:16:38]  He's great.
[01:16:38]  I've talked to him a few times.
[01:16:40]  He was out there.
[01:16:41]  They were seeing these things all the time.
[01:16:42]  And in that one instance, it wasn't just one, it was in a formation.
[01:16:46]  So, how do you explain that?
[01:16:48]  I've talked about some things.
[01:16:50]  I'll talk to you about it after we do the show of some other reasons why I'm really skeptical about those videos.
[01:16:55]  Really?
[01:16:55]  Yeah.
[01:16:56]  Okay.
[01:16:56]  Okay.
[01:16:57]  Well, I don't really like the tic tac.
[01:17:01]  Well, here, I got something to share with you.
[01:17:03]  So, everyone wants to kind of dive into any given video.
[01:17:08]  But what you really need to think about is the whole collective body of evidence.
[01:17:14]  I'm reading a book now by Jacques Fillet, who you should have on your show.
[01:17:19]  I'd love to.
[01:17:20]  He's terrific.
[01:17:21]  Can't get a hold of him.
[01:17:22]  Oh, okay.
[01:17:24]  He's in high demand.
[01:17:26]  I'm not pushing it.
[01:17:27]  Well, I just had a great exchange with him recently.
[01:17:29]  Really?
[01:17:30]  Yeah.
[01:17:30]  I'm on a group with him, and I'll ask him if he's going to be in this area ever.
[01:17:36]  And so ultimately, he wrote this book, The Invisible College.
[01:17:41]  Was it 69 or something?
[01:17:44]  Or 75, I forgot, which i'm losing track because his body of work is so huge and and he's, he just compiles thousands of these eyewitness accounts and they're so bizarre, and so I you know okay, I don't know.
[01:17:59]  First there's.
[01:18:00]  So there's two things the go fast and gimbal.
[01:18:01]  They look pretty odd.
[01:18:02]  These are pilots seeing these things, talking about them.
[01:18:05]  They are in that airspace every day, training.
[01:18:07]  If it looks unusual to them now, then they're probably right in terms of being can't characterize it, don't know what it is.
[01:18:15]  Those things are out there in the airspace all the time.
[01:18:17]  Now, people say, oh, that was a US tech demo, just like the Tic Tac.
[01:18:21]  Now, in my experience, what happened for me is I was under Fleet Forces Command, the four star Admiral in Norfolk, and I supervised all the weather guessers and oceanographers in the Navy, and they were on the ship weather forecasting, the Roosevelt.
[01:18:37]  So I had some authority and responsibility for what was going on there.
[01:18:42]  And I get this email from the ops officer at Fleet Forces Command.
[01:18:45]  He was overseeing the training exercise that Roosevelt was in, and he sends it to every subordinate commander, me, The strike group commander at the time, other strike group commanders, other commands like the Navy Safety Center who reported to him.
[01:18:59]  And the title of it was All Caps Urgent Safety of Flight Issue.
[01:19:04]  And attached was the Go Fast video.
[01:19:06]  And this is over the Navy's secret network in 2015 before it was leaked or declassified.
[01:19:12]  And he said basically, if any of you know what these are, tell me ASAP.
[01:19:17]  We're having numerous near midair collisions.
[01:19:20]  Remember, Ryan talked about a section of aircraft being split, which is absolutely crazy from a safety standpoint.
[01:19:26]  You don't want aircraft to be within a mile of you.
[01:19:30]  And so he said, Tell me ASAP, inferring, and he said, We might have to shut down the exercise if this still happens, if this keeps occurring.
[01:19:38]  The implication was if this is some crazy US tech demo and I don't know about it, the two star in charge of the exercise, or the two star supporting the four star in charge of the exercise, he said, I need to know now because when aircraft carriers train to deploy like this, it's very compressed.
[01:19:56]  Every pilot has to get certified to land on a flight deck.
[01:19:59]  Every ship has to check a box about what they're doing.
[01:20:01]  Can they do underway refueling?
[01:20:03]  Can they perform these weapons launches and et cetera?
[01:20:07]  So, there's all these evolutions you have to be able to prove you can do before you go deploy.
[01:20:12]  So, there's no time to mess around.
[01:20:14]  And the four star that I work for, every week he'd hold meetings with all his subordinates.
[01:20:18]  I was one.
[01:20:19]  And all they talked about was the training cycle, where we were, anything interfering with it.
[01:20:25]  It was the number one job of that four star train forces to deploy.
[01:20:28]  So, when you have something effing with a training event, that's Big deal.
[01:20:32]  And what happened is that video and that email, the next day it was wiped from my computer and he never talked about that UFO encounter.

=== Private Contractor Access (02:40) ===

[01:20:42]  So, what was going on there?
[01:20:43]  Well, it was obviously classified.
[01:20:45]  Was it a classified US tech demo?
[01:20:47]  I really doubt it because, again, you got the four star and all those one stars and all these forces, these ships getting ready to deploy.
[01:20:56]  We don't do tech demos in training ranges.
[01:21:00]  We do that in instrumented.
[01:21:02]  Test ranges where we can gather all the data and say that worked, that didn't.
[01:21:06]  And so I don't know.
[01:21:07]  The whole premise of the Tic Tac and the Go Fast being tech demos in training ranges, that just doesn't fly with me.
[01:21:14]  I don't know.
[01:21:15]  There is this possibility that's been floated out there.
[01:21:17]  Maybe they did do that, that they wanted that kind of real world sort of simulation.
[01:21:23]  But in all my years in the Navy, I never saw that happen.
[01:21:29]  How much collaboration does the Navy have with private contractors?
[01:21:35]  A ton.
[01:21:36]  Really?
[01:21:37]  They build our ships.
[01:21:39]  So, if Lockheed or one of these corporations wanted to test some of their black tech that nobody knows anything about, not even the generals?
[01:21:47]  China Lake.
[01:21:48]  That's what they do.
[01:21:49]  They have an instrumented range there.
[01:21:51]  Yeah.
[01:21:51]  And I've been there.
[01:21:52]  What's China Lake?
[01:21:53]  Oh, it's something, I forgot the exact term of it.
[01:21:56]  It's something like the Navy weapons and training.
[01:21:59]  Okay.
[01:21:59]  Ask Steve to look it up.
[01:22:00]  Okay.
[01:22:01]  So, it's just like a testing ground where there's nobody.
[01:22:05]  That's what those places are for.
[01:22:06]  And that's where we do it, those contractors.
[01:22:09]  It seems like from some of the stories of some of these whistleblowers.
[01:22:12]  There you go.
[01:22:13]  There it is.
[01:22:13]  It's a beautiful part of the country, by the way, the high desert.
[01:22:17]  It seems like some of the whistleblowers we've been seeing over the last couple of years have been alluding to this shadowy private navy or private military that has essentially commandeered,
[01:22:33]  reverse engineered, somehow advanced technology that they've been able to continuously develop and test without anybody in the U.S. military or government, for that matter.
[01:22:50]  Knowing about or having access to?
[01:22:52]  Like when you, like for example, like the Michael Herrera stuff or some of these other people that Jesse Michaels has talked to with like crazy psionic type stuff, stuff that you'd only like hear about in Stranger Things or something like this?
[01:23:06]  So I think private contractor possession and RD of UAP materials is happening.
[01:23:14]  I think that was really, we all know generally that that's how the legacy program was able to continue and not be held accountable to Congress.

=== Guam Drone Agreement (14:30) ===

[01:23:23]  Now I don't know the ins and outs and this is.
[01:23:25]  This is all information I have second or third hand.
[01:23:28]  And I'll just actually, my primary source is someone who's researched this thoroughly and has connections in the right way.
[01:23:36]  And I believe in him and his authority.
[01:23:39]  I don't want to say I believe in him, I trust him.
[01:23:41]  And so what he says, I hold is true.
[01:23:43]  And that's Carl Nell.
[01:23:45]  Oh, yeah.
[01:23:45]  Yeah.
[01:23:46]  In fact, I think you ought to have him on the show.
[01:23:48]  He's brilliant, a great guy.
[01:23:50]  And he's with me, a leading advocate on the UAP Disclosure Act.
[01:23:54]  So he's touched these programs closer than me and we're.
[01:23:58]  Call.
[01:23:58]  He was the Army's point of lead for the UAP task force.
[01:24:03]  Another guy you might want to have on after his book comes out is Jay Stratton.
[01:24:07]  So he led the UAP task force.
[01:24:09]  These are questions they know better than me, I'm sure.
[01:24:15]  And they all say words to the effect of yes.
[01:24:19]  I don't know about Pentagon money going to it.
[01:24:23]  I'm not sure about that.
[01:24:24]  I don't know.
[01:24:25]  But they probably have a better grip on that.
[01:24:28]  Yeah.
[01:24:29]  I think it's probably just a mixture of everything.
[01:24:32]  I think it's some of this stuff is probably stuff we have no clue what it is.
[01:24:36]  Some of it could be foreign stuff.
[01:24:37]  Some of it could be black budget stuff.
[01:24:39]  Have you seen those Lockheed cormorants?
[01:24:43]  No.
[01:24:43]  What's that?
[01:24:44]  You haven't seen the Lockheed cormorant?
[01:24:45]  Oh, Steve O. Pause that search for Jolly West and look for the Lockheed cormorant.
[01:24:53]  It's this crazy looking, it looks like a cormorant flying through the air, but it's an undersea sub.
[01:24:57]  It's like a drone.
[01:24:58]  There it is.
[01:24:59]  Wow.
[01:25:00]  Wow.
[01:25:01]  Is it operational?
[01:25:03]  That's a good question.
[01:25:04]  I don't know.
[01:25:05]  Unknown.
[01:25:06]  Okay.
[01:25:07]  Well, interestingly, here's a fun fact.
[01:25:10]  So, in my family history, the original immigrant came from France in the late 1700s, or early 1700s, and his son, our grandson, fought in the Battle of Trenton in the Revolutionary War, 1776.
[01:25:28]  And then that was Peter Wallace Gallaudet, who became the.
[01:25:32]  Wow.
[01:25:32]  Wow.
[01:25:32]  Yeah, became the.
[01:25:33]  I'm going somewhere with this.
[01:25:34]  Became the personal secretary to George Washington when he became president.
[01:25:39]  And then his uncle was the engraver of the first continental dollar.
[01:25:44]  And then also a Gallaudet, Elisha.
[01:25:47]  And down the lineage, there was a guy, a Gallaudet, who founded an aircraft company that at the time, I forgot his first name, Edson Gallaudet, I think.
[01:25:56]  Yes.
[01:25:57]  He had this Gallaudet aircraft company.
[01:25:59]  And there was a point, maybe 1917, where his aircraft, called the Gallaudet Bullet, was the fastest.
[01:26:06]  Aircraft in the world.
[01:26:08]  And then down the road, that company was sold and merged and ultimately became Lockheed Martin.
[01:26:15]  No.
[01:26:16]  Yeah.
[01:26:16]  So I have a personal history.
[01:26:17]  There.
[01:26:18]  Holy cow.
[01:26:19]  Pretty weird, huh?
[01:26:20]  Yeah.
[01:26:21]  That's a pretty wild story, man.
[01:26:24]  So you got some stock or what?
[01:26:27]  I wish.
[01:26:28]  We lost that inheritance a long time ago.
[01:26:30]  So, no.
[01:26:30]  Gallaudet's a badass name, too.
[01:26:33]  You know, it's a small family.
[01:26:34]  There's not many of us in the country.
[01:26:36]  It's like a strong Gallaudet.
[01:26:38]  It's like a really cool, like.
[01:26:40]  Well, it's like any of names like that.
[01:26:42]  Originally, it was French.
[01:26:44]  It had a T and an E on the end.
[01:26:46]  You know how that is when they came over, they made it easier for people to pronounce.
[01:26:50]  Right, right.
[01:26:51]  And ultimately, yeah, we're happy with it.
[01:26:52]  How about that?
[01:26:54]  Yeah, no, like these cormorant drones, like these underwater drones are fascinating, you know, and I'm just like curious to know.
[01:27:01]  I had the biggest underwater drone fleet in the Navy.
[01:27:04]  You?
[01:27:04]  Yes.
[01:27:05]  Yeah.
[01:27:06]  That over 120, and there's more.
[01:27:08]  What do they look like?
[01:27:09]  So, this is kind of my business right now.
[01:27:12]  I'm a tech consultant for underwater, mostly ocean technology, but space too.
[01:27:16]  Okay.
[01:27:17]  And I've advised a whole bunch of ocean drone companies, surface, undersea, and there's a whole.
[01:27:22]  Range of types.
[01:27:23]  The types I owned were oceanographic.
[01:27:26]  So they were long endurance.
[01:27:27]  They're called gliders.
[01:27:29]  So they have a thing called buoyancy propulsion, where they use an air bladder to change basically the buoyancy.
[01:27:36]  So it goes up and down and you throw some wings on it.
[01:27:39]  There you go.
[01:27:41]  Whoa, that thing's spooky.
[01:27:42]  So that's an article I wrote.
[01:27:43]  That's pretty cool.
[01:27:44]  That is the Manta, a DARPA developed ocean drone.
[01:27:47]  Yeah.
[01:27:48]  DARPA developed ocean drone.
[01:27:49]  That's right.
[01:27:49]  Yeah.
[01:27:50]  Oh my God.
[01:27:51]  That is a badass looking drone.
[01:27:53]  Again, I don't think it's operational, but I'd like it to be.
[01:27:56]  Wow.
[01:27:57]  Yeah.
[01:27:58]  But, and the other piece is a paper, an article I wrote on ocean drones, a revolution.
[01:28:05]  We're turning into the aliens ourselves.
[01:28:07]  I know, exactly right.
[01:28:08]  That's the interesting conversion.
[01:28:10]  We're not, are we the origins of all these NHIs?
[01:28:14]  And we're just seeing a race.
[01:28:15]  I think so.
[01:28:15]  I think we are.
[01:28:16]  I think so.
[01:28:17]  That's my favorite hypothesis out of all of them the time traveler one.
[01:28:21]  I think that's the most compelling one.
[01:28:23]  I know it's hard.
[01:28:23]  I know there's a lot of people to try to debunk it, and there's a lot of, Questionable holes in it, but goddamn, you know, just with like the history of human beings and our evolution and like the way we're going is like dropping sperm counts, dropping testosterone, fertility rate, dropping off a cliff.
[01:28:42]  And are you familiar with Michael Masters' extratempestrial hypothesis?
[01:28:47]  Like, if you look at all the abduction accounts of taking sperm and eggs from people, if there was some sort of cataclysm in the future, they would want to come back in time to replenish their population in the future with sperms and eggs of people in the past.
[01:29:00]  And goddamn, that's interesting.
[01:29:02]  Heck yeah.
[01:29:03]  And I tell you, my wife and I, we both are into this topic together.
[01:29:08]  And it's an interesting journey we've been on.
[01:29:10]  And I can tell you how it started.
[01:29:12]  But quickly, we would have thought two years ago, this is all a bunch of BS, you know, abductions and all this.
[01:29:18]  But man, now that we've met abductees and we've read John Mack's book, by the way, which is really heavy, and The Communion by Whitley Striever, we've met him.
[01:29:27]  And then they're documenting all.
[01:29:29]  So when Whitley wrote the book, he got all these letters, and they're all.
[01:29:33]  They're all housed by people who said they had the same experience.
[01:29:36]  And they're all housed at this place called the Archive of the Impossible at Rice University.
[01:29:42]  And the director of that is Jeffrey Kreipal, Dr. Kreipal, who's another interesting guy you might want to have on your show.
[01:29:49]  Great guy.
[01:29:50]  And actually, let's follow up after this.
[01:29:51]  All these people I recommended, I'm personally in touch with.
[01:29:54]  And if I say you should go on Danny's show, they'll probably go on your show.
[01:29:57]  Beautiful.
[01:29:58]  Yes.
[01:29:58]  Yeah, Jeffrey's amazing.
[01:29:59]  I love him.
[01:30:00]  Yeah.
[01:30:01]  So back to your drones.
[01:30:02]  I want to see your drones.
[01:30:04]  You're a consultant for tech companies that are developing these underwater drones.
[01:30:07]  Are these them?
[01:30:08]  Look for Ocean Glider, Steve.
[01:30:10]  Ocean Glider.
[01:30:12]  Okay, what is the purpose of these drones?
[01:30:13]  What's their function?
[01:30:14]  It's oceanography.
[01:30:15]  So, long endurance sensing of the ocean.
[01:30:21]  Okay.
[01:30:21]  And it's really relevant.
[01:30:22]  So, I had 120 of these, a big fleet, always out.
[01:30:26]  That's one right there.
[01:30:28]  Oh, cool.
[01:30:28]  Like torpedoes.
[01:30:29]  Yeah, that's what they look like.
[01:30:30]  And see that big antenna at the end?
[01:30:33]  What they do is they do basically a zigzag up and down the water column.
[01:30:38]  So, change the buoyancy.
[01:30:39]  You have two wings.
[01:30:40]  So, that allows forward propulsion with the seawater hydrodynamics.
[01:30:45]  And once they make a down and up profile, The antenna pops on the surface and sends the signal up by SATCOM, and all gets fed into our ocean models, which are used by surface forces doing undersea warfare or anti submarine warfare.
[01:31:02]  So you have to know, just like weather and its impacts on radar and visual satellite communication imaging, the ocean has weather.
[01:31:12]  And so, you know, this you're a surfer.
[01:31:14]  So currents, sea state, salinity differences all affect the speed of sound.
[01:31:21]  So, there are areas of the ocean that are.
[01:31:23]  These are all China ones.
[01:31:24]  Can you find his?
[01:31:25]  Let's just find the American one.
[01:31:26]  God.
[01:31:27]  It's a.
[01:31:29]  Look at Naval Oceanographic Office.
[01:31:31]  What's the name of your company again?
[01:31:32]  Look at the Naval Oceanographic Office.
[01:31:34]  Okay.
[01:31:35]  Naval Oceanographic Office.
[01:31:37]  And that's funny.
[01:31:39]  Ultimately, there's a story there.
[01:31:41]  So, when I had that fleet of ocean drones, and we had brought the head of the Navy, Chief of Naval Operations, John Richardson, to see them all, and he said, Great, you should be doing this.
[01:31:50]  We need to do more autonomy.
[01:31:53]  A short time after that, the 20.
[01:31:55]  15 or so, you might have heard the news.
[01:31:58]  Maybe it was 2016 when China seized one of our ocean drones.
[01:32:02]  Do you remember that?
[01:32:02]  I do remember that.
[01:32:03]  Yes.
[01:32:03]  And Trump even tweeted about it.
[01:32:05]  Yes.
[01:32:06]  I forgot what he just tweeted and said, but that got the news, right?
[01:32:09]  And what happened was interesting.
[01:32:13]  I never got that.
[01:32:14]  That's good.
[01:32:15]  There you go.
[01:32:16]  That's exactly what we're talking about.
[01:32:18]  And so I never got a call saying by anybody in my chain of command, What are you doing?
[01:32:24]  Why'd you put your drone out there?
[01:32:25]  They wanted us to be doing that.
[01:32:27]  So they actually screwed up.
[01:32:29]  And we used that to basically highlight all their negative and malign activity in the Pacific.
[01:32:34]  And so we got a lot of good press out of that.
[01:32:37]  And they quickly returned it to us.
[01:32:39]  And what we think is that it was a lower level commander of a ship who saw it surface and thought, oh, we should get this.
[01:32:47]  This will be a prize.
[01:32:48]  The leadership of the Communist Party will be so pleased.
[01:32:51]  And of course, it was an international incident and made them look really bad.
[01:32:55]  So it was designed that way.
[01:33:00]  No, what I'm saying is, I think they screwed up.
[01:33:02]  I don't think they made China look bad, not us.
[01:33:05]  Right, but we intended for them.
[01:33:08]  Not really.
[01:33:08]  No, no.
[01:33:09]  So it was just doing its job.
[01:33:10]  I saw it.
[01:33:11]  We didn't throw it out.
[01:33:12]  Now, partially because it was in the South China Sea.
[01:33:15]  And that's an area that we want to know the ocean really well because if Taiwan is going to get invaded, we're going to have to put our submarine forces and special operations forces there to keep that blockade from happening.
[01:33:32]  Have you heard of that base called Diego Garcia?
[01:33:35]  Yes, of course.
[01:33:36]  What is that place all about?
[01:33:37]  The place looks crazy.
[01:33:39]  Pull up a photo of Diego Garcia.
[01:33:42]  It's a strategic base, right?
[01:33:43]  In the middle of the Indian Ocean.
[01:33:44]  I've heard people call it the Area 51 of the Indian Ocean.
[01:33:49]  I don't know anything about that.
[01:33:51]  Sure, Tim.
[01:33:52]  No, no, I'll be honest with you.
[01:33:54]  Because if there was something I couldn't say, I'd tell you.
[01:33:56]  Okay.
[01:33:57]  I would.
[01:33:57]  I'd be honest.
[01:33:58]  Yeah.
[01:34:00]  But it's a strategic asset.
[01:34:02]  I think we based long range bombers there at different times.
[01:34:06]  And in fact, if I recall, yeah.
[01:34:08]  I found like a real, like a satellite photo of it.
[01:34:10]  There you go.
[01:34:11]  Look at that.
[01:34:13]  Crazy.
[01:34:13]  So, they pull submarines inside there.
[01:34:15]  Like, it's a perfect little, like, a circular island that you can, like, park ships inside of so they're safe.
[01:34:21]  So, those are called atolls.
[01:34:23]  Atolls, right.
[01:34:24]  And they're formed when an island or a kind of volcanic formed island starts to subside geologically, and the fringing reef around that island continues to build up over time.
[01:34:37]  It takes millennia, but we did all the nuclear tests at atolls, right?
[01:34:42]  We did.
[01:34:42]  Bikini Atolls.
[01:34:43]  Yeah, that's right.
[01:34:44]  Yeah.
[01:34:45]  And they're perfect because it's like a safe haven from the ocean.
[01:34:49]  That's right.
[01:34:50]  These are great bases, of course.
[01:34:51]  And that's why the Japanese seized them all in the Pacific at the outset of World War II.
[01:34:56]  They had a lot of value.
[01:34:57]  And then we went and retook them.
[01:34:59]  So this is a very valuable asset.
[01:35:01]  What a crazy place to be stationed to.
[01:35:04]  Yeah, I have a good buddy.
[01:35:05]  He's in my book, actually, because he's a mentor of mine.
[01:35:07]  His name was Admiral Tim McGee.
[01:35:09]  And he was stationed there for a while and a surfer like you and surfed a lot there during that tour.
[01:35:17]  On the atoll?
[01:35:17]  Yeah.
[01:35:18]  Wow.
[01:35:18]  I don't know if you've ever been to Guam.
[01:35:21]  No.
[01:35:21]  Especially when you've got a typhoon out there, Guam can have some good stuff.
[01:35:23]  Oh, yeah?
[01:35:24]  Yeah, for sure.
[01:35:25]  I've seen it.
[01:35:26]  Dang, man.
[01:35:27]  Yeah, the Pacific Islands, for sure.
[01:35:29]  And great, great scuba diving.
[01:35:31]  Oh, I bet.
[01:35:32]  I bet it's probably incredible there.
[01:35:36]  So you mentioned also this dude, Victor Vescovo.
[01:35:42]  Vescovo.
[01:35:42]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:35:44]  What's this guy's story?
[01:35:45]  And are you, I heard you're like working with him to do some sort of mapping of some stuff?
[01:35:51]  Yeah.
[01:35:52]  Great guy.
[01:35:52]  So I got to know him because he and I signed an agreement.
[01:35:57]  When I was at NOAA, he had this expedition going on where he, as a private equity investor, he had basically bought a ship and got a firm called Triton Submersibles to build a sub that was full ocean depth rated.
[01:36:12]  And he decided, well, here's a backstory of Victor.
[01:36:16]  He's a mountain climber, he started out as a mountain climber.
[01:36:19]  I was also a naval intelligence officer in the reserves.
[01:36:22]  And he just really enjoyed climbing, and he eventually scaled all the seven highest peaks on the continents.
[01:36:29]  And then there's a thing called the Explorers Grand Slam, where if you do the seven highest peaks and ski to the North Pole and the South Pole, that's what you get.
[01:36:40]  So Victor did that.
[01:36:41]  And that wasn't enough.
[01:36:42]  You're a vicious fella.
[01:36:43]  Yeah.
[01:36:44]  Actually, he's a very soft spoken guy, he's a total gentleman.
[01:36:48]  He's not full of himself in any way, but he can do things.
[01:36:52]  And then so he said, There's more to do here.
[01:36:55]  And he realized that all the deepest trenches around the world, ocean trenches, had never been dived in.
[01:37:00]  Only one, that was Challenger Deep in the Pacific, the deepest one.
[01:37:04]  And a Navy lieutenant named Don Walsh did it in 1960 with a Frenchman named Jean Picard in a submersible called Trieste.
[01:37:15]  And then James Cameron tried it again in 2004.
[01:37:17]  This is Mariana's Trench?
[01:37:19]  Yeah.
[01:37:19]  Okay.
[01:37:19]  Yes.
[01:37:20]  And the name of that specific deep part of it is called the Challenger Deep.
[01:37:25]  And how deep is it?
[01:37:26]  35,000.
[01:37:27]  So that's seven miles.
[01:37:31]  Seven miles deep.
[01:37:32]  Is that the deepest part of the ocean?
[01:37:33]  Yes.
[01:37:34]  It's crazy.
[01:37:35]  That we know of.
[01:37:37]  Well, I think we have a pretty good bead on.
[01:37:42]  We have the general understanding of the bathymetry of the seafloor around the world.
[01:37:47]  We just don't have very precise measurements in all of it.
[01:37:51]  But we have mapped that area quite a bit.

=== Atlantis and Deep Sea (11:57) ===

[01:37:53]  And in fact, the coolest thing is that when we signed our agreement, we put our scientists on his ship.
[01:37:58]  And to do an accurate depth measurement that deep, you actually have to measure it quite a bit and put down sensors to calculate the sound speed profile all the way up, all seven miles, because you need to know how the sonar refracts all the way down to get a true estimate of its vertical depth.
[01:38:20]  It's a tricky calculation.
[01:38:22]  And so we put enough data in there to make the most precise measurement of that deep spot ever.
[01:38:28]  And then he went and mapped the Aleutian Trench.
[01:38:31]  For the first time ever, never been mapped.
[01:38:32]  Where's the Aleutian trend?
[01:38:34]  It's up near the Aleutian Islands in Alaska.
[01:38:36]  Okay.
[01:38:37]  And that's the U.S. exclusive economic zone.
[01:38:40]  It's important information to have.
[01:38:42]  And that was part of our whole national plan to map the U.S. EEZ exclusive economic zone.
[01:38:48]  That's something I put forward as a recommendation, and the Trump administration said, do it.
[01:38:53]  And so we put together this whole national plan to do it.
[01:38:56]  And it's still being followed.
[01:38:58]  So that's why we have mapped at least 25% of the seafloor in our EEZ.
[01:39:02]  It wasn't even 20% when we started.
[01:39:04]  But, anyways, Victor helped us with that and a great guy.
[01:39:07]  Now, what he's doing is he's realized the cheapest way to map the ocean, all that 75% that's not been mapped, is to use autonomous ships and make a fleet of them to do it.
[01:39:19]  And actually, he wants, well, probably better to have them be minimally manned with one crew.
[01:39:24]  And so he's building this plan to deploy that.
[01:39:26]  And I'm an advisor with him on this.
[01:39:29]  And we stay in touch on different topics.
[01:39:31]  We actually have a special project I can't talk about to go somewhere that your podcast has talked about.
[01:39:37]  I'll just say that an ancient site underwater.
[01:39:42]  An ancient site underwater that I've talked about.
[01:39:47]  Yeah.
[01:39:48]  With man made stuff underwater?
[01:39:51]  We're going to go map it and put an ROV on it and try to date it and confirm its existence.
[01:39:58]  And I'll just leave you at that.
[01:39:59]  There was a story that came out I heard recently.
[01:40:03]  Who told me this?
[01:40:05]  That there's, I don't know if this was like special information I shouldn't talk about publicly.
[01:40:10]  But I heard that.
[01:40:11]  Oh, no, there was an article.
[01:40:12]  There was an article in the Jerusalem Post, actually, about they're making some sort of a movie about a discovery off the coast of Spain.
[01:40:21]  They think it could be Atlantis.
[01:40:23]  I saw that.
[01:40:23]  Was it Spain?
[01:40:24]  I think it was off the coast of Spain.
[01:40:26]  Yeah, I read about that, and I don't think it's right.
[01:40:28]  Why not?
[01:40:29]  Well, and this is if you do, if you read, that's it.
[01:40:34]  If you read Cadiz, Plato's dialogues, Where all that information, he puts out a lot of information on the very specific location of it.
[01:40:48]  And so I don't think it was that close to Spain.
[01:40:51]  No, no.
[01:40:51]  According to what Plato wrote, it was most likely.
[01:40:59]  What is that chain of islands called?
[01:41:02]  What's the chain of islands called?
[01:41:03]  It's off the coast.
[01:41:04]  It's kind of off the coast of Spain.
[01:41:06]  It's like in the Atlantic, Azores, the Azores.
[01:41:11]  My buddy Randall Carlson, who talks a lot about this stuff, he's been trying to put together an expedition to go out to the Azores for a while.
[01:41:19]  It's a fascinating looking place.
[01:41:20]  That would be a fun place to scuba dive.
[01:41:22]  Yeah.
[01:41:25]  But yeah, the problem with the Atlantis stuff is that, are you familiar with the chain of transmission?
[01:41:33]  No.
[01:41:33]  With Atlantis?
[01:41:34]  No.
[01:41:35]  It's insane.
[01:41:36]  Steve, I don't know if you ever saved this photo, but we famously, we've gone over this many times.
[01:41:41]  The chain of transmission with Plato is it starts with, it basically, from the time Plato wrote about it, he was told about it from somebody like 100 years before that.
[01:41:58]  I think it was Pliny the Younger.
[01:42:00]  That's right.
[01:42:00]  And then Pliny the Elder was like 100 years before that.
[01:42:04]  And then apparently the gap between Solon and the person Solon got it from was like 1,000 years or something like this.
[01:42:16]  So it's like 1,000 years.
[01:42:19]  Of verbal, basically transmission, never written down once until Plato.
[01:42:27]  And then, you know, an oral history going back 1,500 years is crazy.
[01:42:33]  Oh, there we go.
[01:42:34]  Beautiful.
[01:42:35]  So, okay, number one, the destruction of Atlantis, 9,000 years before Solon.
[01:42:43]  So, the oral history of 1,000 years, written down by the Egyptians, 8,000 years before Solon, it was written down.
[01:42:51]  So, there's a thousand year gap between when Atlantis was allegedly destroyed from the Critias and when it was first written about.
[01:43:02]  So, no actual writing of this from Egypt.
[01:43:08]  The priest reads records years past, then tells it by memory to Solon without consulting any written records.
[01:43:18]  Solon tells his relative Dropides.
[01:43:21]  Dropides tells it to his son Critias the Elder.
[01:43:24]  At age 90, he tells his Critias the younger, and then the younger tells Socrates 50 years later, and then Plato writes it down.
[01:43:33]  So this is like, so it's basically like 7,000 years of just oral transmission of the stories before he writes about it.
[01:43:43]  You know, which is like maybe, but it's really fascinating.
[01:43:49]  And Plato was known for, he was not a historical writer.
[01:43:53]  He was a philosophical writer, and he wrote about hypothetical war games and things like the allegory of the cave.
[01:44:04]  And he was writing about hypothetical thought experiments, things like this.
[01:44:10]  Well, yes.
[01:44:11]  Not to discredit, not to say that there absolutely could be some remnants of a lost underwater city or civilization.
[01:44:19]  Just the way that the climate has changed over millennia since before the Younger Dries, the Pleistocene, and the lowering of the sea level, it's very, very likely that there could be ancient cities that are under the oceans.
[01:44:32]  100%.
[01:44:33]  And actually, have you ever heard of the Silurian hypothesis?
[01:44:38]  I think so.
[01:44:40]  Steve, check it out S I L U R I A N.
[01:44:44]  I believe it's this idea that the Earth is so old that there would have been enough time for an advanced civilization to have existed millions of years ago, and that there'd be no sign of it in the geological record because of millennia of all the geologic and volcanic and cataclysmic processes that occur here.
[01:45:09]  So if you just do the math, like Avi's done, there could be.
[01:45:13]  Intelligent technology civilizations that have already formed here and become extinct.
[01:45:18]  Right, totally.
[01:45:19]  And why not?
[01:45:21]  So I don't, I think ultimately I want to see some data on Atlantis and I have a few leads, but I'll just leave it at that.
[01:45:31]  But then there's even the idea of going farther back.
[01:45:34]  And maybe you've had some folks on your shows that have found, for example, metals and objects that were in parts of the geologic strata that they never should have been.
[01:45:45]  You know what?
[01:45:46]  I forgot the exact examples of that.
[01:45:48]  But there are a few out there.
[01:45:50]  Very odd.
[01:45:52]  Yeah.
[01:45:53]  This says the core idea is the hypothesis questions if a civilization capable of industrial activity could have risen and fallen on earth before humans, and if so, how we might find evidence of it.
[01:46:02]  That's the problem there's no toasters in the desert.
[01:46:07]  We can't find any ancient toasters, but we do have the megalithic blocks.
[01:46:10]  We do have the great pyramids.
[01:46:12]  So, this is our discussion before.
[01:46:14]  Yeah.
[01:46:14]  You look at, you go, if you've been to the Louvre, or have you been to Egypt?
[01:46:18]  I've never been there.
[01:46:19]  Have you been to the Louvre?
[01:46:20]  I have been to the Louvre.
[01:46:20]  So, you've seen the Egyptian carvings, stone carvings, and it's just as you said earlier, they didn't have the tools to do that.
[01:46:29]  Right.
[01:46:29]  Did Georgiani on your show talk about his hypothesis, for example, of ancient stone structures and Atlantis specifically?
[01:46:39]  He's got a lot of crazy hypotheses, but hypotheses, I don't know how you say that.
[01:46:43]  That's right.
[01:46:44]  One of his is that the pyramids are like time travelers going back and creating this stuff.
[01:46:50]  To like try to communicate with us, I get lost in some of this stuff.
[01:46:54]  Yeah, yeah, he's interesting.
[01:46:55]  But I did like his Atlantis, I guess, explanation.
[01:47:02]  And then he, in this show, remind me what it was.
[01:47:06]  He thought that the Atlanteans had developed a form of collective consciousness.
[01:47:13]  And when you start looking at Psy phenomena, and you extend it to.
[01:47:22]  A civilization.
[01:47:24]  His thought was that large stone structures could be carved and transported with a collective conscious mental, like psi, psychokinesis, en masse effect.
[01:47:38]  And I'm just starting to look at this whole thing because it's coming out now as we talk about NHI and UAP and.
[01:47:44]  Like levitation?
[01:47:45]  Yeah.
[01:47:46]  Okay.
[01:47:46]  100%.
[01:47:47]  And the actual carving of the stones.
[01:47:48]  I mean, you've had guests who.
[01:47:52]  Who have said that they did not have the Egyptians and others before?
[01:47:56]  What's the Scobeckly Tepe?
[01:47:58]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:48:00]  What did they have to do that?
[01:48:01]  They did not have the metals to do that.
[01:48:03]  This is the most fascinating stuff to me.
[01:48:06]  Have you seen these?
[01:48:06]  No.
[01:48:08]  This is a 3D print, obviously, of a real granite vase that was found underneath the step pyramid.
[01:48:14]  Granite.
[01:48:15]  Granite.
[01:48:16]  One of the hardest stones known to man.
[01:48:18]  And there's multiple.
[01:48:19]  There's one over there.
[01:48:19]  That's another 3D print.
[01:48:21]  I have a friend of mine who bought a bunch of these on the antiquities market.
[01:48:25]  And they were confirmed, created 4,000 years ago, between 4,000 and 5,000 years ago, when conventional Egyptologists say the Egyptians were carving stuff using flint chisels and pounding stones.
[01:48:39]  That's all they had.
[01:48:40]  That's right.
[01:48:41]  And now you have granite, the hardest stone on the earth.
[01:48:43]  They took these vases that are made of granite and they measured them in a light scanner at a huge aerospace company.
[01:48:52]  It might have been Rolls Royce.
[01:48:54]  Yeah, what was the precision in terms of the?
[01:48:55]  It was a symmetry.
[01:48:57]  It was perfectly symmetrical, and the deviation, the biggest deviation was like less than the width of a human hair.
[01:49:05]  Yeah.
[01:49:07]  That looks machined.
[01:49:09]  Oh, 100%.
[01:49:10]  Especially when you consider the fact that these handles are built into it.
[01:49:13]  Wow.
[01:49:13]  Yeah.
[01:49:14]  The handles are part of the whole entire piece of granite, right?
[01:49:17]  And you look inside the actual vases and you can see little tiny lined machine marks etched in the granite like it was built on a CNC machine.
[01:49:28]  Oh, wow.
[01:49:28]  But they know, like, people have, like, there's been people that are studying this right now who I'm currently talking to that are talking to all the biggest granite manufacturers, people in China who are contracted to use CNC machines to print stuff on computers.
[01:49:43]  And they say there's no way they could recreate something like this with granite.
[01:49:47]  With granite.
[01:49:48]  Wow.
[01:49:49]  So, how did they do that 5,000 years ago?

=== Remote Viewing Truths (04:46) ===

[01:49:51]  That's right.
[01:49:52]  If it was 5,000 years ago, it might be way older.
[01:49:54]  We don't, I don't think there's any way to carbon date it.
[01:49:57]  But, you know, there's so many questions, man.
[01:49:59]  It just doesn't line up.
[01:50:00]  I mean, just the idea that we're on this linear timeline and that, you know, we started as cavemen, you know, 100,000 years ago and it was a linear progression ever since then is, I think that's been debunked big time, especially there's just so much evidence contrary to that.
[01:50:20]  I do.
[01:50:21]  I think we have to re examine many of our theories.
[01:50:24]  And this is a big reason why I've come out on this UAP topic.
[01:50:26]  It's just, again, like Avi said, it's not extraordinary to think that technology or advanced civilizations from somewhere are visiting us or have evolved elsewhere.
[01:50:39]  And it's extraordinary to think they wouldn't be because of the size of the universe.
[01:50:44]  But nonetheless, the mainstream media and mainstream science refuse to open the door to that possibility.
[01:50:52]  They'll entertain it a bit.
[01:50:53]  But they don't, they won't, there's only a few journalists, not a few, there's not many journalists that are out there that'll embrace this topic.
[01:51:02]  And they'll kind of treat it as something novelty and then they'll move on to the more mundane, everyday things that are in the world.
[01:51:08]  And I think I've always, I don't have an agenda here.
[01:51:12]  I just want to know the truth.
[01:51:14]  Right.
[01:51:16]  This is one of the most frustrating topics to talk about because it is by design.
[01:51:22]  The whole topic and the whole narrative combined with the way the internet works is.
[01:51:27]  The perfect deception cauldron pot of disinfo and accurate info.
[01:51:33]  So it's designed so you will never find the truth.
[01:51:36]  You're constantly going to be a dog chasing its tail with this stuff.
[01:51:39]  Well, true.
[01:51:41]  And when you add in the fact that you also have people like me online trying to talk about it, and you have people that just do this stuff because they make money doing it, right?
[01:51:52]  They want to sell books.
[01:51:53]  There's people doing it, you know, people that aren't actually objectively looking at stuff like Jesse Michaels is.
[01:51:59]  He's one of the greatest.
[01:52:00]  He's doing great work.
[01:52:01]  But you have other people that are just like latching on to like specific narratives and just pushing that because it gets them more followers.
[01:52:08]  It makes them more money.
[01:52:10]  Then you have to add in all the disinfo, all the intelligence agents, all the freaking media people that are paid off, like the Wall Street Journal that are being told by people, you know, in intelligence whether or not something's right or wrong, like signing off on an article like before it gets published.
[01:52:26]  That's crazy.
[01:52:26]  Yeah.
[01:52:27]  Yeah.
[01:52:28]  That's right.
[01:52:28]  And I think there's just a lot of very disingenuous and, um, Activities going on in this whole world and in this space.
[01:52:40]  And so I'm trying to counter that or avoid it or get beyond that.
[01:52:44]  It's difficult.
[01:52:45]  It's definitely difficult.
[01:52:46]  But here's one for you.
[01:52:48]  So, as we, my wife and I, Karen, pursued this topic, have you had any remote viewers on your show?
[01:52:55]  I've had a few.
[01:52:56]  You have.
[01:52:57]  I saw that.
[01:52:58]  Well, it turns out my wife is taking a course.
[01:53:02]  And one of the original remote viewers is Paul Smith.
[01:53:07]  And he was in the Army and he did this work, I believe, for the CIA.
[01:53:11]  And he has a book out.
[01:53:12]  It's basically The Guide to Remote Viewing.
[01:53:14]  And this has been really interesting.
[01:53:16]  Okay, so how does it work?
[01:53:17]  Well, I don't know, but it works.
[01:53:20]  Because if you read his book and some of the work by Joe McMonagall, he's also, any of his interviews are really terrific because he lays it out there.
[01:53:30]  And so my wife's been taking these courses, and it's very deliberate and methodical how they do that, the course.
[01:53:37]  And she's basically gotten what they call hits.
[01:53:40]  She's had the instructor.
[01:53:41]  Oh, yeah.
[01:53:42]  I mean, we're talking, what they do is they'll have a scene and they'll give her coordinates and they have a clear image, they have a picture from it.
[01:53:51]  And then they teach her a protocol on how to basically channel, or for lack of a better word, where that is, what's there.
[01:54:01]  And she's done this probably seven or eight times.
[01:54:06]  And on almost every time she's gotten it right.
[01:54:08]  And it's been these complex, either buildings, landscapes, and she is, Describe them, it's you can't make it up, and so it's been fun to watch because everybody has the ability.
[01:54:20]  And when they teach you the protocol about how to, it's non local communication and information transfer, which is nothing unusual if you accept the fact that quantum mechanics and physics is real, right?
[01:54:32]  That's non local communication and information transfer.

=== Dark Matter Hard Drive Theory (04:18) ===

[01:54:37]  That our minds have the same ability, and in fact, there's a guy named Alexander Wendt who wrote a book about this called Social Science and the Quantum Mind, I believe it's called, and he he he.
[01:54:48]  He looks into this idea that we are basically wave functions.
[01:54:56]  Like if you study quantum mechanics and the fact that an observer will collapse the wave function to a.
[01:55:01]  The observer effect.
[01:55:02]  That's right.
[01:55:03]  And that's what we are, really.
[01:55:06]  Yeah.
[01:55:06]  Have you heard Giorgiani's theory on this?
[01:55:07]  No, tell me.
[01:55:08]  He's got this theory that reconciles that with the simulation.
[01:55:12]  Oh, that's another one.
[01:55:13]  Okay.
[01:55:14]  Yeah.
[01:55:14]  So there's this guy named.
[01:55:18]  Claude Shannon, who was the one who developed the idea of transmitting data like bits, binary bits.
[01:55:25]  And that was after the Turing computer in the 40s, after we first developed computers.
[01:55:34]  And then there's this other guy named Rolf Landauer who came up with a theory that data on a hard drive has mass.
[01:55:42]  Yeah.
[01:55:42]  So the way he reconciles, the way he explains that is using like the two laws of. thermodynamics, one of them that energy can never be created or destroyed, only transferred.
[01:55:52]  And the other one is entropy always goes up in a closed system in our universe.
[01:55:58]  Disorder, it always increases, hence like the heat death of the universe.
[01:56:03]  So if you, if you take those laws that entropy always goes up and that energy and energy and mass are interconvertible and energy is never created or destroyed, only transferred.
[01:56:14]  If you have a blank hard drive, it's going to be all ones or all zeros.
[01:56:21]  Before you encode data, before you store data on it, then it becomes high entropy disorder, a chaotic mess of ones and zeros on that hard drive, right?
[01:56:29]  So, what happens if you erase 100 terabytes off of this hard drive?
[01:56:34]  It goes from chaos, ones and zeros, to all zeros, all ones.
[01:56:39]  The entropy goes down, which, according to the laws of thermodynamics, it can't happen.
[01:56:44]  That has to be transferred out of the hard drive.
[01:56:48]  So, if you do have all the data on the hard drive, it would be theoretically, according to Landauer, and you could weigh it.
[01:56:59]  And if we had tools to weigh those hard drives, he thinks that all the hard drives across the face of the earth right now and all the server farms. all the data on every single hard drive would be like a kilogram right now.
[01:57:10]  Oh boy.
[01:57:11]  But like every year, the data storage goes up 25%.
[01:57:15]  Now, if you add in exponential growth, like reaching the technological singularity, how much that's going to grow, it's going to be, we don't know what that's going to be.
[01:57:23]  But if you keep it stable at 25% growth every year, he theorized in like 340 years, we're going to have the mass of the moon on the surface of the earth in data stored on hard drives, right?
[01:57:35]  So, and then.
[01:57:37]  So here's the crazy way.
[01:57:39]  Here's where it gets crazy.
[01:57:41]  If you crack open a hard drive when it has all this data stored on it, you can't see anything.
[01:57:45]  There's no, you can't see the mass.
[01:57:47]  You can't see the data, right?
[01:57:49]  So if the stuff on the hard drive is actually mass, and if you can weigh it and it actually is mass and it's electromagnetically indetectable, he says, what other kind of mass do we know of that is not detectable electromagnetically?
[01:58:10]  Dark matter.
[01:58:11]  Because we looked at the spins of the galaxies, we looked at the center of the galaxy, the spin is the same as the outer rim of the galaxy when it should be faster on the inside.
[01:58:18]  So they're saying that dark matter has mass, that's flattening the spin rate of all these galaxies.
[01:58:23]  So he's saying if dark matter is the same thing as mass on a hard drive, that means mass, energy, and information are all interconvertible, not just mass and energy.
[01:58:40]  Yeah.
[01:58:40]  So That means dark matter is a computational cloud.
[01:58:44]  And our consciousness, we're using consciousness as a fundamental way to interact with that, the same way you use a computer screen to interact with a hard drive.
[01:58:53]  So I was just talking to my wife about this.

=== Consciousness Resonance Studies (03:13) ===

[01:58:55]  And he thinks that reconciles perfectly with parapsychology and stuff like ESP.
[01:59:00]  That's right.
[01:59:01]  And in fact, I forgot the researcher.
[01:59:04]  Karen told me, and I don't remember.
[01:59:05]  There's a paper out there, there's probably many, about weighing someone's brain after.
[01:59:12]  Before they die and after they die.
[01:59:14]  And it weighs less after they die.
[01:59:18]  And this isn't anything about the fluids and whatever.
[01:59:22]  It's energy and mass are equivalent, and you have energy as a conscious entity.
[01:59:29]  And somehow that energy gets transferred somewhere and you can measure it in the mass equivalent.
[01:59:35]  Wow.
[01:59:35]  Yes.
[01:59:37]  And we haven't gotten to this part yet, but I'm 100% certain that human consciousness survives physical death.
[01:59:44]  I don't have any doubt in my mind.
[01:59:46]  And I know this for a lot of reasons, and that have all sort of just a big series of events and things I've read.
[01:59:54]  And again, there's so much in other religions that embrace this.
[01:59:59]  And so this is again like UAP.
[02:00:02]  People think this is so fantastic in the mainstream media and the mainstream science world, where almost every civilization has embraced it.
[02:00:12]  And we're only now coming back to that.
[02:00:16]  And this is all being studied.
[02:00:17]  Bigelow studied it.
[02:00:19]  And then there's the University of Virginia's Division of Perceptual Studies, DOPS.
[02:00:25]  I think that's the right name of it.
[02:00:27]  This is what they do.
[02:00:29]  They have scientists that are dedicated to studying this whole phenomena, which is really fascinating.
[02:00:35]  And again, I have actual proof.
[02:00:38]  And I know we had a life experience that caused us to come into contact with a number of mediums, and they are all so accurate that you can't make it up.
[02:00:50]  You can't accidentally arrive at the things they know.
[02:00:54]  In fact, I know several of them.
[02:00:57]  They're not charlatans, they're not doing this to make money.
[02:00:59]  They have a gift, they could connect to that.
[02:01:01]  And there's a weird interplay again with NHI, and I don't know how that fits, but it's, it's, and in fact, Jacques Vallee in the Invisible College talks about this parapsychological, paranormal element of UAP.
[02:01:15]  Yeah.
[02:01:15]  I don't understand it all yet, but I know what I've seen, and yes.
[02:01:22]  There's definitely something there.
[02:01:23]  And the simulation aspect to it, if you look at the observer effect and you say that, you know, when the wave function collapses, only when you're, Collapses and you see things only when you're observing them do they actually happen.
[02:01:38]  I mean, that makes perfect sense in a video game because it's conserving processing power.
[02:01:42]  When you're in one room in a video game, the outside of it is not being rendered until you actually go there, right?
[02:01:48]  And that also works perfectly with Sheldrake's morphic resonance, right?
[02:01:52]  If one problem is solved in one part of the world, like if one person breaks a world record in France, there are going to be five more people breaking that same world record in the next couple years somewhere else.
[02:02:01]  I like what that guy says.
[02:02:03]  In fact, I, Because he explains monarch butterfly migrations over generations.

=== Video Game Rendering Logic (03:07) ===

[02:02:09]  Do you know about that?
[02:02:10]  So, if you look at monarch butterflies, how they migrate from Mexico to the U.S., I've seen it firsthand in New Orleans, and it's spectacular.
[02:02:21]  But ultimately, these animals don't learn it from an experience.
[02:02:28]  They don't ride the bus with their parents one day, and then after their parents pass, they've learned it and they do it.
[02:02:33]  No, these animals do.
[02:02:36]  Die before they've completed a full cycle of going one way and coming back.
[02:02:41]  So they, in the only way that would explain how they know, and then there's also things like whale migrations and whatnot over the whole half of the planet, that there's this resonance of consciousness somehow.
[02:02:58]  And I know that's touchy feely and there's not, we need more data to explain it, but it's the first step, I think, at explaining phenomena like that.
[02:03:08]  Yeah.
[02:03:09]  Same with bird migrations, too.
[02:03:10]  Yeah.
[02:03:14]  I have a friend who.
[02:03:16]  You have a friend?
[02:03:16]  I won't say his name.
[02:03:18]  One friend.
[02:03:20]  He was telling me this funny story yesterday, and he's a very wealthy guy who is not really into any kind of woo woo spiritual stuff at all, right?
[02:03:31]  He's all about his business and doesn't want to waste time doing anything.
[02:03:37]  And he recently did DMT in his backyard by himself.
[02:03:41]  And he was telling me, he's like, Danny, he was like, I was sitting in my backyard and I tried this DMT stuff.
[02:03:48]  And I noticed this tree that I never even knew was in my backyard.
[02:03:53]  I never even thought about this tree, never even looked at it once or ever had one thought about this tree.
[02:03:58]  And he's like, it started communicating to me and telling me that it was in pain.
[02:04:03]  What?
[02:04:04]  Really?
[02:04:05]  And he's like, it was struck by lightning, I guess, like during that hurricane that happened a couple months ago.
[02:04:10]  Yeah.
[02:04:11]  And this is so weird coming from this guy.
[02:04:13]  This is the opposite guy I would ever expect.
[02:04:16]  And he was telling me this sober, obviously.
[02:04:18]  This was like a day later.
[02:04:20]  And he's like, dude, it was so convincing.
[02:04:24]  He's like, I'm hiring people to come out and like try to bring this tree back to life.
[02:04:27]  Oh my gosh.
[02:04:27]  And he's like, I'm going to go talk to it again tonight.
[02:04:31]  That is a great story.
[02:04:32]  But like, I think of all the stories you just said.
[02:04:36]  I think that's real.
[02:04:37]  I think it's totally real.
[02:04:38]  You have to think living things.
[02:04:40]  Living things.
[02:04:42]  Why, if we have consciousness and you know damn well other mammals do, if you have a dog or a cat, they are absolutely conscious.
[02:04:49]  Yeah.
[02:04:49]  There's just.
[02:04:50]  Right.
[02:04:50]  Why wouldn't other living things have some degree of that?
[02:04:54]  And I mean, I.
[02:04:56]  I fully can't grasp what that is.
[02:04:58]  Yeah.
[02:04:59]  And you've probably seen the studies where they'll put in like an arboretum or a greenhouse, a bunch of plants, and they'll play like heavy metal.
[02:05:10]  And another one time they'll play like classical music and they'll start thriving under the classical music and they'll start wilting under.

=== Earthquake Animal Sensitivity (03:16) ===

[02:05:17]  Yeah.
[02:05:18]  There's something there.
[02:05:19]  Totally.
[02:05:19]  Yeah.
[02:05:20]  That's an interesting story.
[02:05:21]  My wife's a big animal and plant lover.
[02:05:24]  So she's just going to love that story.
[02:05:27]  Hopefully, it won't start taking DMT, but maybe that'll be good.
[02:05:30]  I don't know.
[02:05:31]  Hey, man, there's worse drugs you can do.
[02:05:32]  That's right.
[02:05:34]  Yeah, no.
[02:05:35]  I think, you know, especially too, like animals like cats and dogs, you know, there's always like, I think they can sense stuff, you know?
[02:05:43]  Oh.
[02:05:43]  Like they can sense stuff that we don't know what it is, like energy.
[02:05:45]  Like, you know, like you ever go into a house or whatever and just be like, ooh, something, like somebody was murdered in that house before, whatever.
[02:05:51]  Like when you know you're being washed.
[02:05:53]  Yeah.
[02:05:53]  That too.
[02:05:54]  Or so animals, dogs, This is interesting.
[02:05:58]  There's that.
[02:06:00]  And then there's other stuff too, maybe related.
[02:06:03]  So everybody knows dogs sometimes know when an earthquake is going to occur.
[02:06:07]  You know what that?
[02:06:08]  I've heard this.
[02:06:09]  Oh, I know it to be true.
[02:06:10]  I live in Southern California.
[02:06:11]  I've been through a lot of earthquakes.
[02:06:12]  Really?
[02:06:12]  Oh, yeah.
[02:06:13]  And then I have friends, neighbors.
[02:06:15]  Oh, yeah.
[02:06:16]  The dog was freaking out.
[02:06:18]  Wow.
[02:06:18]  So now there's a physical explanation for this.
[02:06:21]  And this goes to an, this reminds me of the UAP thing because it's ignoring mainstream science, ignoring really relevant.
[02:06:32]  Research pursuits.
[02:06:33]  Okay, so when I've been working with this company and they use what they call space weather, which is ultimately ionospheric variability.
[02:06:43]  The ionosphere has charged particles.
[02:06:46]  You see evidence of that in the auroras.
[02:06:50]  And so, and what happens, and they call this space weather, as I said, that when before an earthquake, as two big seismic plates start building pressure, there's a lot of metal.
[02:07:02]  In those plates.
[02:07:04]  And what it does is it induces a charge.
[02:07:06]  Yes.
[02:07:07]  And it is coupled from the lower atmosphere all the way up to the top of the atmosphere.
[02:07:12]  And you can take space weather measurements of what they call total electron count.
[02:07:17]  And before a big earthquake, like the Kobe or the Japanese earthquake, what was it called?
[02:07:26]  Oh, Fukushima?
[02:07:26]  Tohoku.
[02:07:27]  Yeah, no, Tohoku, I think it was Tohoku.
[02:07:28]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[02:07:29]  That giant signature in the ionosphere right before that.
[02:07:34]  In fact, this company, they're called.
[02:07:36]  Precursor SPC.
[02:07:37]  Yeah.
[02:07:38]  They, they, uh, three, four earthquakes in 2024, all above 7.0 magnitude, they predicted between three and four days in advance by just looking at space weather signatures.
[02:07:49]  So, uh, this is, and so I've been trying to get the U.S. Geological Survey to, uh, take interest and actually maybe do earthquake early warning.
[02:07:58]  They refuse to look at it.
[02:07:59]  What?
[02:08:00]  It's, yeah.
[02:08:00]  It's, this earthquakes kill as many people and cause as much damage as a world war.
[02:08:06]  But, They're the typical bureaucrats.
[02:08:08]  All they are is seismologists, and that's the only way they've known how to study earthquakes.
[02:08:13]  They refuse to look at an Earth system approach, which is what meteorologists have done for several decades.
[02:08:18]  We started to couple the ocean and the atmosphere and the land and the ice caps, and that produces a better predictive model.
[02:08:25]  But now, these bureaucrats just, oh, no, we're going to do it this way.
[02:08:28]  Have you ever heard of this NASA physicist by the name of Friedman Freund?
[02:08:32]  Let me get there.

=== Technology Atrophied Senses (03:31) ===

[02:08:33]  But ultimately, that's what I think dogs are tapping into this electromagnetic potential that increases.
[02:08:43]  And they're more sensitive to it.
[02:08:47]  Well, I think they have senses that.
[02:08:49]  And whales migrate.
[02:08:52]  Yeah.
[02:08:53]  And I think they are using the magnetic lines in the earth.
[02:08:55]  Right.
[02:08:56]  That's what is a hypothesis out there.
[02:08:57]  So, yeah, a lot of living things are more sensitive to parts of the earth's system than we are by far.
[02:09:04]  I always think about what kind of things are existing around us right now that we have no idea are there.
[02:09:10]  You know, like we didn't, if we didn't have the sense of smell, if we didn't Wi Fi.
[02:09:13]  Right.
[02:09:13]  Wi Fi.
[02:09:14]  Yeah.
[02:09:14]  Perfect example.
[02:09:15]  If we didn't have the, haven't evolved the sense of smell to detect things like, Prey, or you know, whether your building is on fire or whatever it is, um, we would never know if somebody, you know, farted next to you and you were sitting in somebody's fart, right?
[02:09:32]  So, how many other things are like that out there that we don't have the organs to detect?
[02:09:36]  That's right, you know what I mean?
[02:09:37]  That's right, like sharks, they do that, right?
[02:09:41]  They have these, uh, what are they called?
[02:09:44]  They're there, there's a word, there's a name for them.
[02:09:47]  Oh, Italian, like the like Lorenzini.
[02:09:51]  Yeah, I forget what it is.
[02:09:53]  But they can detect electrical pulses in the water when an animal's.
[02:09:55]  That's why they say to punch it in the face if it gets.
[02:09:57]  That's right.
[02:09:58]  Because they have all these senses up there.
[02:09:59]  It just screws up its hole.
[02:10:00]  That's right.
[02:10:01]  That's right.
[02:10:02]  Yeah, they have that.
[02:10:03]  Yeah.
[02:10:03]  We don't.
[02:10:04]  Yeah.
[02:10:04]  And I wonder, like, what kind of freaking senses do other animals have that we don't like?
[02:10:09]  Even dolphins.
[02:10:10]  You know, John Lilly was doing that study on dolphins that was funded by NASA where he was, like, looking at their brains.
[02:10:18]  He was trying to figure out how to communicate with dolphins, like, telepathically.
[02:10:21]  Right, right.
[02:10:22]  Yeah, that's interesting because we know we're beginning to understand, and I don't know if anybody on your show has talked about these telepathy tapes.
[02:10:30]  Yeah.
[02:10:31]  Do you know what that is?
[02:10:31]  Yeah.
[02:10:32]  Oh, yeah.
[02:10:32]  And so, why wouldn't other living things have the same ability to communicate like that?
[02:10:39]  And in fact, how do they?
[02:10:41]  This is interesting.
[02:10:42]  If you look at how complex the social behaviors of a variety of animals are, and they don't talk, I mean, they may make calls like birds, but it's interesting how animals can communicate without.
[02:10:57]  Visible or oral, even wave.
[02:11:00]  I know whales vocalize, but it's interesting.
[02:11:04]  I think there's something there too.
[02:11:06]  Yes.
[02:11:07]  And I think it is.
[02:11:10]  I think humans possibly had a stronger connection to whatever that is, like in the past.
[02:11:20]  That's what Giorgiani says.
[02:11:22]  Yes.
[02:11:22]  I told you that.
[02:11:22]  The collective consciousness, psychokinesis.
[02:11:25]  Yeah.
[02:11:26]  I think this is kind of like a.
[02:11:28]  How different?
[02:11:29]  This is kind of.
[02:11:31]  My thing about this is that I think before we had ubiquitous technology and the ability to offload our memory onto devices, and we're just constantly existing in this technological civilization, I think that we probably had to have had a stronger antenna to connect to whatever that is.
[02:11:56]  Whatever telepathy is, whatever psychokinesis is, I feel like those abilities were stronger with us.

=== Ocean Exploration for UAPs (14:51) ===

[02:12:04]  Before we developed all this technology.
[02:12:07]  And that sort of ability has atrophied as technology has risen.
[02:12:12]  I think you're right.
[02:12:13]  I think people depend upon that, certainly in the distant past.
[02:12:16]  And there's a study out there somewhere.
[02:12:20]  I think anybody who's a twin knows this.
[02:12:22]  I've talked to twins.
[02:12:23]  They sometimes can communicate with their sibling, their twin sibling, without talking.
[02:12:30]  And it's hard, but I've heard this so often, it's not a one off.
[02:12:35]  Right.
[02:12:36]  And so there's something similar there that we all maybe have that innate ability, but it's atrophied and distracted from technology.
[02:12:46]  Going back to your earthquake, what you were saying about the earthquakes.
[02:12:49]  There's this guy named Friedman Freund.
[02:12:51]  I don't know if you've heard of him.
[02:12:52]  He's a NASA physicist.
[02:12:52]  No.
[02:12:53]  And he did this talk.
[02:12:54]  He's done TED Talks before.
[02:12:55]  And he's also had a conversation with Christopher Dunn, who's the guy who wrote the Giza Power Plant book.
[02:13:00]  And his new book's called The Tesla Connection.
[02:13:02]  Yeah.
[02:13:04]  So, what Friedman Freund figured out, which I think is directly connected to what you were saying, is you can detect earthquakes using these things called earthquake lights.
[02:13:14]  So, what he's saying, what he's showing is like igneous rock deep beneath the earth.
[02:13:20]  Deep beneath the earth.
[02:13:23]  Easy for you to say.
[02:13:24]  When it rubs against each other, when those rocks grind under the earth, like deep, deep in the earth, it creates, it sort of like creates this electron, these electrons.
[02:13:36]  Yeah, same thing.
[02:13:37]  That light up and create these lights that shoot up out of the ground.
[02:13:41]  And people mistake them for UFOs.
[02:13:43]  Oh.
[02:13:43]  But it's like, if you can find images of earthquake lights, apparently it always happens in Marfa, Texas.
[02:13:49]  Oh, right.
[02:13:50]  So Marfa, Texas is like synonymous, is like famous for having these earthquakes.
[02:13:53]  I've heard of the Marfa lights.
[02:13:54]  Yeah.
[02:13:54]  I didn't know that that was due to seismic activity.
[02:13:58]  Yes.
[02:13:58]  Oh, it is?
[02:13:59]  Yeah.
[02:13:59]  Okay.
[02:13:59]  According to Friedman Freund.
[02:14:01]  And he did an experiment where they took granite, right?
[02:14:06]  And they took it and they grinded it against the other and they smashed granite together and they were putting electrodes on either end of the granite rods and they were measuring electrons.
[02:14:16]  Yeah.
[02:14:17]  It was creating electricity, a current.
[02:14:19]  Electric current.
[02:14:20]  Yes.
[02:14:20]  That's the exact same thing.
[02:14:21]  He's talking about that location under the surface.
[02:14:25]  So it's throughout.
[02:14:27]  In the strata, up to the surface, up to the top of the atmosphere.
[02:14:31]  So, however you want to detect it, it's crazy.
[02:14:34]  Yeah.
[02:14:34]  I mean, we're talking tons of metals that are all pressuring.
[02:14:37]  Look up Friedman Freund.
[02:14:39]  And then, so Chris Dunn interviewed him for his book, The Giza, the Tesla Connection.
[02:14:45]  And what Chris Dunn's new hypothesis is, is that the Great Pyramid is on the Giza Plateau, which he believes is seismically active or whatever.
[02:14:55]  Like, I guess there's a lot of igneous rock that moves around underneath the pyramids.
[02:14:58]  And he thinks that.
[02:15:00]  It that the great pyramid is a solid state, these are just photos of him, Steve.
[02:15:06]  Um, a solid state electron harvester.
[02:15:09]  Oh, so he thinks interesting.
[02:15:11]  Yeah, he thinks that all of the stones and all of the limestone and the granite is harvesting the electrons from deep underneath the earth, channeling them, channeling them into that pyramid and using it to conduct electricity.
[02:15:25]  He thinks it was like a free energy machine.
[02:15:27]  Wow, that's a big machine.
[02:15:31]  Yeah.
[02:15:31]  Have you been there?
[02:15:32]  Oh, yeah.
[02:15:32]  I've never been there.
[02:15:33]  No, I can't wait to go.
[02:15:34]  That is a phenomenal experience when you see something so massive.
[02:15:38]  And it's, yes.
[02:15:40]  Yeah.
[02:15:42]  See, that makes a lot of sense.
[02:15:45]  And the physics are pretty well proven.
[02:15:46]  In fact, for the space weather element of this phenomena, the Europeans, the European Space Agency, did a study.
[02:15:54]  They called it INSPIRE.
[02:15:55]  And I forgot what the acronym stands for, but it was about these ionospheric precursors that are observable before earthquakes.
[02:16:03]  So we have studies out there, and then you got our government that's just sitting on, you know what, rather than being innovative.
[02:16:10]  Just, it really, again, people just not looking at things with clear eyes and taking some action on it.
[02:16:16]  So back to this underwater stuff.
[02:16:20]  If you were, if the leader of the free world was to go to you and say, we need to figure out a way to ensure the survival of our species in the case of a thermonuclear war or a cosmic cataclysm, and we need to do it underwater, or maybe not, maybe they don't even say that.
[02:16:45]  Would you think or suggest that underwater would be the best way?
[02:16:50]  Case scenario for something like that?
[02:16:53]  It would be a top contender.
[02:16:55]  I mean, underwater or under the land.
[02:16:58]  And I don't know.
[02:17:00]  It could be either, but we couldn't live in the surface because of the radiation.
[02:17:05]  So we'd have to find a way.
[02:17:06]  And I think the water is a good buffer for that.
[02:17:08]  It would be a much easier underground, right?
[02:17:12]  I don't know about that.
[02:17:13]  I guess, depending on the, yeah, very deep in the ocean is hard to get to.
[02:17:16]  But interestingly, I'm working with a company called Deep.
[02:17:22]  That is building undersea habitats.
[02:17:25]  And so, this is not just theoretical.
[02:17:28]  They're building these mostly for tourism, dive tourism, and recreation.
[02:17:32]  But this is something that can be done.
[02:17:35]  We have the engineering behind it.
[02:17:37]  People have proven it.
[02:17:38]  Funny thing about the space program I got to meet Scott Carpenter, who was one of the Mercury astronauts.
[02:17:45]  And he happens to be the only one that I know of that also was an aquanaut.
[02:17:51]  So, he lived in Sea Lab for a while off La Jolla.
[02:17:55]  The La Jolla coastline in California and set some human undersea endurance record.
[02:18:01]  And I asked him about that and I said, How do you compare space exploration and ocean exploration?
[02:18:07]  And he told me that they don't compare.
[02:18:08]  Space is all glorious and shiny and it's very quick.
[02:18:12]  You open a space mission in just a few days.
[02:18:14]  But when you're underwater, it's cold and dark and everything breaks.
[02:18:18]  And I laughed because he made it sound like space was a cakewalk and the ocean was the real challenge.
[02:18:25]  Yeah.
[02:18:26]  And what's funny about that is that if you remember Kennedy's speech at Rice when he challenged America to go into space, he talked about, we do these things not because they're easy, but because they're hard.
[02:18:37]  So he was saying, space is hard, but we're going to do it.
[02:18:40]  And I got the astronauts to tell me, yeah, but the ocean's a lot harder.
[02:18:43]  However, I'm seeing a lot of ocean innovators like this deep company that's making it happen.
[02:18:48]  Victor made it happen in his submersible.
[02:18:49]  He dived all the five deep trenches.
[02:18:51]  Right.
[02:18:52]  And that was just extraordinary.
[02:18:54]  Not like the Oceangate disaster, that submersible, which Collapse because they didn't do the right engineering.
[02:19:01]  In fact, Victor and I know two of the people that were on that sub.
[02:19:05]  Really?
[02:19:06]  Yeah.
[02:19:06]  Yeah.
[02:19:07]  There was Pierre Narjolais.
[02:19:10]  Victor knows him well.
[02:19:11]  I met him.
[02:19:12]  And then there was Hamish Harding, Explorer, went into space with Victor.
[02:19:18]  I met him at the Explorers Club.
[02:19:20]  And it was just so disappointing because Victor had warned them that engineering of that is not proven.
[02:19:27]  They never did a test.
[02:19:29]  In a tank like Victor did.
[02:19:30]  There's only one tank in the world that can pressure depth to full ocean depth.
[02:19:34]  Really?
[02:19:35]  Yeah, it's in Russia.
[02:19:36]  But Victor did it because he knew he had to do that to ensure he was safe to go down.
[02:19:41]  So it's like a big pool that they can increase the pressure?
[02:19:44]  It's a tank.
[02:19:45]  It's a tank.
[02:19:46]  Yeah, it's all enclosed.
[02:19:47]  They increase the pressure.
[02:19:48]  They simulate seven miles down and they did it.
[02:19:50]  And they proved that the pressure hull of the submersible could withstand that pressure.
[02:19:54]  Do they do this with full size battle subs?
[02:19:57]  Well, I don't know.
[02:19:58]  I don't know.
[02:19:59]  I think they.
[02:20:00]  They're small.
[02:20:01]  Submarines, yeah.
[02:20:02]  Submersibles that do that are smaller.
[02:20:05]  Submarines don't go down more than a few hundred feet.
[02:20:09]  Oh, really?
[02:20:09]  No, no.
[02:20:10]  They don't need.
[02:20:11]  What's the deepest vehicle your sub could go?
[02:20:13]  It's classified, but it's several hundred feet.
[02:20:16]  Several hundred.
[02:20:16]  Several hundred feet.
[02:20:17]  And ultimately, though, because that's all we really need to operate.
[02:20:21]  Why would you go deeper when the targets you care about are no deeper than you are?
[02:20:26]  There are other subs and ships.
[02:20:28]  We need to get windows on those subs, too, so they can see the UFOs flying.
[02:20:31]  That's right.
[02:20:32]  The USOs.
[02:20:33]  All right.
[02:20:33]  I'm going to do something about that.
[02:20:35]  We need to, yeah, or get some sort of technology where you can make the metal transparent or something, translucent.
[02:20:40]  Yeah.
[02:20:41]  I want to.
[02:20:43]  In fact, I've been, I know the, Science advisor to the president, Michael Kratzios.
[02:20:48]  And I've asked him, and I'm going to ask him again every year the Office of Science and Technology Policy in the White House puts out an annual research and development priorities memorandum.
[02:20:59]  And I've seen it, I've contributed to it.
[02:21:01]  I always put ocean things on it when I was at NOAA.
[02:21:03]  But I've asked him to start considering UAP and USO research so that if he puts it in the memo, that means all the federal agencies that do stuff in either the atmosphere or ocean.
[02:21:15]  Have to start studying them.
[02:21:16]  So, if I were to get him to do that, that means Noah would have to start researching USOs as well as ONI and my old organization, the Naval Oceanographic Office.
[02:21:26]  Do you think that there's actual like underwater bases that these crafts are going to?
[02:21:33]  So, I saw you had Richard Dolan on, who is a friend of mine and I like him a great deal.
[02:21:38]  He's incredible.
[02:21:39]  Yeah, that book, that book has like 600 like witness accounts.
[02:21:42]  Oh, I've read through most of it.
[02:21:45]  Yeah, the one from the 1700s, the ship.
[02:21:47]  Yeah.
[02:21:47]  Was insane.
[02:21:49]  I saw you talk to him about that.
[02:21:50]  Yeah.
[02:21:51]  And yes.
[02:21:52]  So, well, I don't know.
[02:21:54]  But we know they're in the water a lot and they come from the water, go into the water.
[02:21:59]  We just saw the Omaha.
[02:22:01]  Where do they go?
[02:22:03]  They have to.
[02:22:05]  So, if we know that.
[02:22:07]  And by the way, we don't know much about the ocean.
[02:22:09]  So, if we're seeing them come from the ocean and go in and we only explore 10% of the ocean volume and 25% of the seafloor.
[02:22:17]  There's a pretty good bet that more research into exploring the ocean might teach us a whole lot more about USOs and UAP.
[02:22:27]  And where do you think, if you were them, would be the best place to hide your base?
[02:22:31]  Antarctica?
[02:22:33]  Well, all these places that people aren't.
[02:22:36]  Yes, exactly.
[02:22:37]  But the weird thing is that this big hotspot is off SoCal.
[02:22:41]  That is weird.
[02:22:42]  Yeah, like Catalina Island.
[02:22:43]  It's highly populated.
[02:22:44]  What's going on there?
[02:22:45]  And in fact, I have a friend who is, I have a friend.
[02:22:50]  You too.
[02:22:51]  Yes, exactly.
[02:22:52]  And he, his, actually, his daughter is going to the Naval Academy on the swim team with my daughter.
[02:22:57]  And so we're proud of them.
[02:22:58]  And he was a Naval Academy graduate in my wife's class and became an F 14 and F 18 pilot and just retired.
[02:23:06]  And so, a credible guy and knows about military capabilities.
[02:23:11]  And his wife has seen them over to the Catalina Channel repeatedly in broad daylight.
[02:23:17]  Wow.
[02:23:18]  Yeah.
[02:23:18]  And so, there's, this is what's happened so many people are coming to me.
[02:23:22]  Credible people, average citizens, former military personnel, all with their stories.
[02:23:27]  And I've had dozens of this.
[02:23:29]  So it's happening more than you think.
[02:23:32]  So when you were in front of Congress and they were asking you all these questions and you were saying stuff like, yeah, I have this answer, but I can't tell you unless we're in a private setting or in a SCIF or whatever.
[02:23:43]  What do you know?
[02:23:46]  If I can't tell them, I wouldn't tell you.
[02:23:48]  But it's really.
[02:23:50]  Do you know shit that, like, Can put all these questions to rest?
[02:23:56]  No.
[02:23:57]  So I wasn't involved with any UFO UAP programs.
[02:24:02]  I was not read in.
[02:24:03]  Okay.
[02:24:03]  So, the reason I talk about this now is I had my eyewitness account of the Go Fast video, and Ryan and I had people supporting Ryan's squadron who was seeing these all the time.
[02:24:13]  And here I am I'm a Navy retired admiral, and people like Fravor and Alex Dietrich and Ryan are speaking out, and this petty officer, Alex Wiggins.
[02:24:21]  And I just felt these courageous folks deserve top cover.
[02:24:26]  They deserve someone like me, a retired admiral, because no one else is.
[02:24:30]  I don't know why, but to say this is credible, this is a real thing.
[02:24:34]  It deserves attention and research.
[02:24:36]  So, the stuff that you were telling them, I guess I imagine that you did eventually tell them what they were asking you in a private setting.
[02:24:43]  This stuff was secondhand accounts that were told, explained to you by other people.
[02:24:47]  Yes, yes.
[02:24:48]  And these are people I trust.
[02:24:49]  In fact, as I told you, I knew people who touched the legacy program.
[02:24:53]  I know them.
[02:24:54]  And many of them are out already Eric Davis, Hal Putoff, Joel, Jay Stratton was not in the legacy program, but he led the UAP task force.
[02:25:04]  So he's seen a ton of UAP information that's not been declassified.
[02:25:09]  And I trust him.
[02:25:10]  Lou Elizondo, I trust him too.
[02:25:13]  So these have all been in the mix, Carl Nell.
[02:25:15]  And we're all saying the same thing.
[02:25:17]  There's a lot of information that's being withheld from the public.
[02:25:21]  Some of it should be released and the full story.
[02:25:25]  And what's stopping all this from being released?
[02:25:29]  It's the classification issue.
[02:25:30]  We're too afraid.
[02:25:32]  What are people scared of?
[02:25:33]  Well, it's the government not really.
[02:25:36]  Thinking it's good policy to say we can't protect our citizens, our airspace, our water space.
[02:25:42]  That's a tough one to overcome.
[02:25:44]  Sure, I understand that.
[02:25:45]  And I'm not sure how they resolve that myself.
[02:25:48]  Again, I'm here from the standpoint that the American people, or government by the people, for the people, that they deserve to know the nature of reality.
[02:25:58]  If the government knows it, they should disclose some of that to our taxpayers.
[02:26:06]  And what is to stop any of these people who have this top secret information from just coming out and saying it?
[02:26:14]  Other than losing your career, jail time.
[02:26:17]  You could go to jail.
[02:26:18]  Oh, yeah.
[02:26:19]  These are all.
[02:26:20]  But wouldn't that just confirm it?
[02:26:22]  If I came out tomorrow and I was part of some deep access program.
[02:26:25]  What we're talking about is, and I've signed these myself, you get read into a program and you have a non disclosure form that says, I acknowledge that if I divulge any of the information in this program, and it's a prerequisite before getting into the program.
[02:26:40]  So, you might not even know you're getting read into a UAP program.
[02:26:42]  It might be, hey, you're a, we think you, we want to have you know about this because of your responsibilities and we think you have a need to know.
[02:26:50]  So, first before you get read in, sign this.
[02:26:52]  And it says, I won't do anything or I can go to jail.
[02:26:55]  Sure.
[02:26:55]  Okay.

=== Whistleblower Protection Forms (03:03) ===

[02:26:56]  Yeah.
[02:26:56]  And actually, yes.
[02:26:57]  But the problem with that is in public, in the public's eye, if you do come out and say some crazy stuff that this is, I'm claiming this is true, and then you get thrown into jail, people are going to say, oh my God, it's true.
[02:27:07]  They threw him in jail.
[02:27:08]  Yeah.
[02:27:08]  If it was bullshit, why would they put him in jail?
[02:27:10]  Well, so the good thing here is these, I don't think, I don't know if they've been passed yet, but maybe there are.
[02:27:16]  I know that uh, Burchett has introduced some whistleblower protection legislation to get around that, and I've heard some of that's been subverted too.
[02:27:24]  Yeah, like some of the whistleblower protection groups or fundraisers that people have been putting together are just like intelligence operations, just to like as like a fly trap for whistleblowers.
[02:27:35]  I'm pretty sure of it.
[02:27:36]  Yeah, yeah, crazy man.
[02:27:39]  I know it.
[02:27:40]  It's uh, never a dull moment with UFOs.
[02:27:44]  Um, you have a hard out, you got to be out of here by four.
[02:27:47]  I do.
[02:27:47]  Okay, cool.
[02:27:47]  It's $3.55.
[02:27:49]  Tell people about your book and some other stuff that you can.
[02:27:53]  Yeah.
[02:27:54]  Hey, so a lot of what I'm doing now, I don't know if you can show this or not.
[02:27:59]  I got my book cover finally approved.
[02:28:01]  Oh, beautiful.
[02:28:02]  Hold that up like this.
[02:28:03]  Yeah.
[02:28:04]  So a little bit higher.
[02:28:05]  There you go.
[02:28:06]  Holding fast in heavy seas, leadership for turbulent times.
[02:28:11]  Yes.
[02:28:12]  I love it.
[02:28:12]  Well, what happened is as an agency leader coming from the military, I had a lot of our scientists come up to me and say, Hey, I have a tricky situation.
[02:28:23]  You were a leader.
[02:28:25]  I don't know a lot about leadership because I haven't been trained on it.
[02:28:28]  What are your ideas?
[02:28:29]  What are your thoughts on leadership?
[02:28:30]  And this happened to me almost every day.
[02:28:33]  And so what I did is I, I, Really, just answered that question in my book is I go through what I learned about leadership in the Navy.
[02:28:40]  And that's what you do.
[02:28:42]  I love the service because it's officers lead and that's their job.
[02:28:48]  And you learn, many people learn how to do it well because they have great mentors.
[02:28:52]  And I go through all the people that showed me the ropes on how to be an effective servant leader.
[02:28:59]  And it's a good story.
[02:29:00]  Everyone wants to be a better leader, whether you're a dad or a business manager.
[02:29:05]  It's about positively influencing people you care about.
[02:29:09]  And so then I go into this agency called NOAA, Science Agency, and it was a challenging time because, and I'm a fan of a lot of what President Trump is doing right now, but he's not an easy guy to work for and inspire a federal workforce.
[02:29:24]  You can see this right now under.
[02:29:27]  But I think I did that pretty well because we succeeded on a lot of fronts.
[02:29:30]  I talked about our partnership with Victor and Ocean Mapping, and there were many others.
[02:29:35]  And so I just go through that in this book to talk about and teach.
[02:29:39]  How to lead during challenging situations.
[02:29:43]  And it was a lot of fun too.
[02:29:45]  I had some great friends and we did some fun things.
[02:29:49]  And so there's a good amount of humor because there's a sea story behind every.
[02:29:53]  Oh, it's amazing.
[02:29:53]  Yes.
[02:29:54]  Is it available on Amazon?
[02:29:56]  There's fishing involved.
[02:29:57]  Oh, hell yeah.
[02:29:58]  And a lot of scuba diving.
[02:29:59]  Amen.
[02:29:59]  Okay.

=== Leading Through Challenges (01:05) ===

[02:30:00]  Amen.
[02:30:01]  We'll link it all below.
[02:30:02]  Great.
[02:30:02]  As well as social media.
[02:30:04]  Where are you on social media?
[02:30:05]  Your name?
[02:30:06]  Oh, LinkedIn.
[02:30:07]  I think it's Tim Galladay.
[02:30:08]  Okay.
[02:30:08]  Perfect.
[02:30:08]  Facebook, Insta.
[02:30:10]  And Tim Galladay.
[02:30:11]  X, but I'll have, and it's Kohler Books is publishing it.
[02:30:15]  I'm just waiting for the DoD Pentagon review, the security review that everybody else has to go through, like Lou and Jay.
[02:30:22]  And when that's done, it's going to go hopefully in the fall.
[02:30:25]  Fantastic, man.
[02:30:26]  Thanks again for your time, man.
[02:30:27]  This has been fascinating.
[02:30:28]  Oh, look, he finally found it.
[02:30:30]  Steve, you're the man.
[02:30:31]  It only took an hour.
[02:30:32]  No, I have to do it for my email.
[02:30:34]  Which one is he?
[02:30:35]  So, the very back, that's Jolly West.
[02:30:38]  Wow.
[02:30:39]  Yep.
[02:30:39]  He was the guy who was the head guy of MKUltra.
[02:30:42]  Yeah.
[02:30:43]  And the guy who basically drove Jack Ruby insane after he killed Oswald.
[02:30:49]  So, a lot of unethical.
[02:30:51]  What was he doing on the set of 2001 Space Odyssey?
[02:30:53]  That's all I want to know.
[02:30:53]  That's right.
[02:30:55]  Interesting.
[02:30:56]  I learned a lot.
[02:30:56]  Thanks, man.
[02:30:57]  It was great being here.
[02:30:58]  Thank you, Danny.
[02:30:58]  Hey, it's 3 59.
[02:31:00]  Do you have five minutes to answer some Patreon questions?
[02:31:02]  Let's go.
[02:31:02]  All right, let's do it.
[02:31:03]  All right.
[02:31:03]  That's the end of the podcast.
[02:31:05]  Good night, everybody.