Danny Jones Podcast - #283 - Antichrist vs Exorcist Debate: Who is the REAL Christ? | Ammon Hillman & Bob Larson
Aired: 2025-01-31
Duration: 56:59


=== Simple Faith in Trust (09:32) ===

[00:00:07]  So, are they rolling right now?
[00:00:09]  I don't know.
[00:00:09]  Are we rolling?
[00:00:11]  Yeah.
[00:00:11]  Okay, yes, we are rolling.
[00:00:13]  So, where were we?
[00:00:14]  You were explaining to me how I could give myself to Jesus.
[00:00:18]  Yes.
[00:00:19]  Is this okay?
[00:00:19]  Okay.
[00:00:22]  And the answer to that, and Amon knows what I'm going to say.
[00:00:29]  Steve, are you going to let that happen?
[00:00:30]  Simple faith in trust in Christ.
[00:00:36]  Jesus said, if you're going to follow me, you have to deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow me.
[00:00:43]  Now, picking up the cross is an allusion to all sorts of ways of self-negation.
[00:00:50]  But you have to make God's will your will.
[00:00:54]  You have to want His thoughts to be your thoughts and to live a life pleasing to Him.
[00:01:01]  That's not a perfectionist journey.
[00:01:04]  It's a journey of faith, of the Bible talks about God.
[00:01:09]  Gradually being transformed into the image of Christ.
[00:01:14]  That can take a lifetime.
[00:01:15]  It certainly can take a lot of years or months.
[00:01:19]  But it means just stepping off one path to the other path by saying what Romans 10 9 and 10 in the Bible tells us to say.
[00:01:30]  It says, If you believe in your heart that God has raised Christ from the dead and you confess it, With your mouth, you will be saved.
[00:01:47]  For with the heart, man believes the righteousness of God.
[00:01:53]  With the mouth, he makes confession to that truth.
[00:01:56]  Now, I've added a few colloquialisms there in it, but just to make it understandable to you in basic language.
[00:02:05]  Do I have to go to confession?
[00:02:06]  Do I have to confess my sins to anybody?
[00:02:10]  To God.
[00:02:11]  Just to God.
[00:02:12]  Here and now.
[00:02:16]  You know what they are.
[00:02:17]  I confess my sins on every podcast.
[00:02:19]  I don't hide anything.
[00:02:21]  Of course, you have sins.
[00:02:25]  My worst sin is rejecting Christ.
[00:02:29]  I don't necessarily reject Christ.
[00:02:31]  Yes, you do.
[00:02:32]  I don't think I reject him.
[00:02:33]  It's not a.
[00:02:34]  I believe Christ was a real person.
[00:02:37]  Wait a minute.
[00:02:39]  You're rejecting who he said he was.
[00:02:42]  All right.
[00:02:43]  So that's where.
[00:02:44]  We're not talking about a malicious, malignant, evil. evil, deliberate defiance of God.
[00:02:53]  Right?
[00:02:54]  We're talking about I'm skeptical.
[00:02:57]  I'm skeptical.
[00:02:58]  That's fine.
[00:03:01]  That's my job to be skeptical.
[00:03:02]  I'm a journalist.
[00:03:03]  Then maybe this is your first step on the path to God.
[00:03:10]  For some people, it doesn't happen necessarily in an instant.
[00:03:14]  It's progressive.
[00:03:17]  But they have to at least say a prayer.
[00:03:21]  that quantifies the possibility of who Christ is and what he claims.
[00:03:29]  So, if you say, and I've had many people who on their own have just gotten on their knees and said, Christ, if you are who Christianity says you are, if you are truly God, I need you to show that to me.
[00:03:53]  I need you to prove that to me in some way.
[00:03:57]  God's willing to do that.
[00:03:58]  It may not happen today or tomorrow.
[00:04:02]  Could happen now, but it might be a process where any number of things happen that are just God coincidences.
[00:04:12]  My skepticism comes in where people like you and people like you say these things that sound good, right?
[00:04:21]  But all this stuff is coming from texts, and I don't know how to read the texts, and everybody says the texts say something different.
[00:04:29]  Not everybody says that.
[00:04:31]  Certain individuals may say that.
[00:04:33]  People in Christianity, in theology that subscribe or ascribe to that religion, they all say the same thing.
[00:04:40]  People that are outside that religion say different things.
[00:04:43]  People like Dr. Hillman say different things.
[00:04:45]  Everyone has their own interpretation of these texts.
[00:04:48]  I don't know what's going on.
[00:04:51]  You simply say, Jesus Christ, if you are the Son of God, if you are the creator of all that exists, If you gave me the breath of life, I need you in some way to show that to me.
[00:05:15]  Because I'm not ready to make what Kierkegaard called the leap of faith.
[00:05:20]  Right.
[00:05:21]  So I need to ask that.
[00:05:23]  You need to ask God.
[00:05:24]  See what happens.
[00:05:25]  Just repeat after me.
[00:05:26]  Okay.
[00:05:27]  And don't say anything you don't want to say.
[00:05:28]  Okay.
[00:05:34]  Say Jesus Christ.
[00:05:35]  Jesus Christ.
[00:05:38]  If you are God's Son, if you are God's Son, if you always existed in eternity past, if you always existed in eternity past, if it is true, if it is true, the only forgiveness of sins, the only forgiveness of sins is your death upon the cross.
[00:06:07]  Is your death upon the cross?
[00:06:09]  I need to know that.
[00:06:10]  I need to know that.
[00:06:14]  Show that to me, Lord.
[00:06:15]  Show that to me, Lord.
[00:06:18]  And.
[00:06:19]  And.
[00:06:21]  I will hand you all of my sins.
[00:06:23]  I will hand you all of my sins.
[00:06:26]  To be forgiven.
[00:06:27]  To be forgiven.
[00:06:29]  And walk in newness of life.
[00:06:32]  And walk the newness of life.
[00:06:37]  Now, if you had.
[00:06:39]  You really meant that and you embraced Christ now.
[00:06:42]  I'd love to get some water and baptize you, but I won't do that.
[00:06:45]  You're not ready for that yet.
[00:06:48]  Should I let him baptize?
[00:06:49]  That's your decision, bro.
[00:06:52]  What kind of.
[00:06:53]  What's in that water?
[00:06:54]  Nothing.
[00:06:55]  How do you make it?
[00:06:56]  By prayer.
[00:06:57]  There's no chemicals in it?
[00:06:59]  No, Baptismal water is simply a symbolic representation of dying to self.
[00:07:09]  And living to Christ, because the scripture says in Romans chapter 6 that we are buried with Christ in baptism in death, that as he was raised from the dead to the glory of God his Father, we will be raised again to a new life in Christ.
[00:07:29]  So it's just one of what's called the ordinances or the sacraments, depending on your theological position of the church.
[00:07:37]  And through that, You express faith.
[00:07:42]  So now you've put God on the spot, so to speak.
[00:07:49]  If you meant what you said, and now you have to be open to God working in your life, and you don't know how that's going to happen.
[00:07:58]  It could be one of a million ways that God now will step in and show you what you were made for and created for.
[00:08:09]  You have a brilliant mind.
[00:08:10]  You have a quick mind.
[00:08:12]  You have the ability to do.
[00:08:13]  Incredibly great things.
[00:08:17]  I'm not saying that to be facetious.
[00:08:20]  I'm saying that in all honesty, you are.
[00:08:24]  And you're essentially a good person.
[00:08:28]  I try to be.
[00:08:29]  Yeah, with what tools you have.
[00:08:35]  But you have to understand that the Christian life, Paul said, this life that I live in my body, I live by the faith of the Son of God.
[00:08:45]  For it is not me, but it is Christ.
[00:08:49]  Within me.
[00:08:51]  If Christ was not in me, I would have been dead a long time ago because the demons would have killed me.
[00:08:59]  But they can't because I belong to Christ.
[00:09:04]  And so what you basically do is you build these walls of protection around you and your family by faith in God.
[00:09:12]  Now, that's not to say nothing bad will ever happen.
[00:09:16]  Sometimes bad things do happen.
[00:09:17]  Now, let me ask you this By repeating all those things you just told me, am I opening myself up to any vulnerability with demons?
[00:09:23]  No, absolutely.
[00:09:24]  In fact, quite the contrary.
[00:09:29]  You have just served notice on the devil that you've taken a first step toward God.

=== Building Walls of Protection (14:20) ===

[00:09:40]  Now they have to start backing away.
[00:09:43]  Not a long ways away, but they start back, uh oh.
[00:09:46]  Oh no.
[00:09:48]  Oh no.
[00:09:49]  What are we going to do now?
[00:09:51]  They're scrambling.
[00:09:51]  They're thinking, all right, we've got to do this.
[00:09:53]  We've got to do this.
[00:09:56]  Right.
[00:09:57]  Don't worry about them.
[00:10:00]  Keep your eyes on God.
[00:10:03]  Just that simple.
[00:10:04]  So now I can watch out for any sort of signs that I get from God.
[00:10:08]  But you've got to be looking for them.
[00:10:10]  Okay.
[00:10:10]  You've got to be saying every day, God, I'm looking for that truth that you're real.
[00:10:20]  I don't want to wax poetic here, but, you know, it might be a sunset.
[00:10:27]  That would just be a beautiful day.
[00:10:29]  And you just say, wow, I'm grateful for this day, God.
[00:10:31]  Whoops, when did I say that?
[00:10:34]  I see.
[00:10:34]  Oh, I understand.
[00:10:35]  I'm thanking God for life.
[00:10:37]  Right.
[00:10:38]  There it is.
[00:10:39]  Okay.
[00:10:39]  I understand.
[00:10:40]  See what happens next.
[00:10:41]  And you got my phone number.
[00:10:42]  Okay.
[00:10:44]  I want to ask you if you think, based on everything you've learned about Amun and listening to the podcast, do you think that he is truly possessed by a demon?
[00:10:52]  Unquestionably.
[00:10:54]  Unquestionably.
[00:10:55]  I can't see his face.
[00:10:56]  That's the only problem because of these lights here.
[00:10:58]  That's okay.
[00:10:58]  Can you put some light on my face?
[00:11:00]  I can't.
[00:11:01]  Are you going to look like trash in this?
[00:11:02]  No, you look great.
[00:11:04]  Can you show a picture of Amon on the table?
[00:11:06]  I can't see past his shirt.
[00:11:07]  There we go.
[00:11:08]  Go to the solo.
[00:11:09]  Go to the solo on.
[00:11:11]  Look, I have a glow.
[00:11:12]  Look at all.
[00:11:13]  He looks gorgeous.
[00:11:14]  Oh, God.
[00:11:15]  If you can't get in with that, something's wrong with you, baby.
[00:11:20]  He wore that shirt for me today, and he knows it.
[00:11:23]  I did.
[00:11:24]  Do you know who this is?
[00:11:26]  You tell me.
[00:11:27]  That shirt?
[00:11:27]  No, that's okay.
[00:11:28]  I'm not your tour guide.
[00:11:29]  I mean, the shirt on the outside.
[00:11:31]  I'm not your tour guide.
[00:11:31]  I have a question.
[00:11:33]  I have a question from the devil.
[00:11:35]  The devil keeps telling me.
[00:11:38]  Bob, he keeps telling me, yeah, but the problem is Bob has never read the Bible.
[00:11:43]  I tell all my seminarian students when I was teaching at a seminary, I told all of them the first day of class, I said, oh, sorry, hold on.
[00:11:53]  Put that right there.
[00:11:54]  Oh, is this a hearing device?
[00:11:57]  Sorry, Bob.
[00:11:58]  Sorry.
[00:11:59]  I tell my seminary students the first day of class, you've never read the Bible.
[00:12:04]  And they all give me a dirty look, Bob.
[00:12:06]  Well, I know where you're going with that.
[00:12:07]  They all give me a dirty look.
[00:12:09]  Well, let me go there.
[00:12:11]  I'm a classical philologist.
[00:12:12]  I might go there.
[00:12:13]  I know what you are.
[00:12:13]  This is why the Harvard people won't come.
[00:12:16]  I am a classical philologist.
[00:12:18]  I know what you are.
[00:12:18]  Watch the videos.
[00:12:19]  And you have never read the Bible.
[00:12:21]  Tell me what a Christ is.
[00:12:22]  Okay.
[00:12:22]  Okay.
[00:12:23]  What is a Christ?
[00:12:23]  I'm not going to tell you that.
[00:12:24]  Because you don't know.
[00:12:25]  No, no, no.
[00:12:26]  What do you mean?
[00:12:26]  What is a Christ?
[00:12:27]  Wait a minute.
[00:12:28]  I did not agree.
[00:12:29]  How is he supposed to believe?
[00:12:31]  If you don't know what a Christ is, or what a gospel is, that's why the people at Harvard.
[00:12:36]  And I will either get up and walk out of here.
[00:12:41]  Okay.
[00:12:42]  Why?
[00:12:42]  Because cowardice.
[00:12:43]  If I am.
[00:12:44]  possess.
[00:12:44]  Let's be respectful.
[00:12:46]  Let's be respectful.
[00:12:46]  No, he just.
[00:12:47]  No, no, no.
[00:12:48]  We got to be nice to each other.
[00:12:49]  We got to be nice.
[00:12:50]  That's the only way this is going to happen.
[00:12:53]  Understood.
[00:12:54]  Understood.
[00:12:54]  Okay.
[00:12:55]  Now.
[00:12:55]  Let's just discuss the facts, the texts, and everything we're here to discuss, and let's not call each other names or be rude.
[00:13:00]  Thank you, Danny.
[00:13:01]  Okay.
[00:13:01]  Is that okay, Bob?
[00:13:03]  I was thinking as I stepped out of the room a moment ago that it would be a good idea.
[00:13:10]  Where are you in New Mexico?
[00:13:12]  I'm in Taos, New Mexico.
[00:13:15]  Taos, right there.
[00:13:16]  Of course.
[00:13:16]  Why not?
[00:13:17]  The new age capital of New Mexico.
[00:13:19]  Right off of.
[00:13:20]  No, no, no.
[00:13:21]  I'm not into any hippie stuff.
[00:13:23]  I can't stand hippies.
[00:13:24]  Okay.
[00:13:24]  Okay.
[00:13:25]  I've been studying the Christian and the Bible for the last 35 years.
[00:13:30]  I know what you've done.
[00:13:31]  I want to talk about the Bible.
[00:13:34]  I just would like to suggest that to really have a candid conversation, no cameras, you get in your car and drive down to Phoenix.
[00:13:48]  Yeah, but that makes you look like a coward.
[00:13:50]  And I will be happy to spend time with you.
[00:13:57]  Normally, we ask for a donation to help cover my staffing.
[00:14:00]  Of course, because it's greedy, Bob.
[00:14:02]  It's flim-flam.
[00:14:03]  You've got to be nice.
[00:14:04]  Listen, I will be happy.
[00:14:06]  Oh, God.
[00:14:07]  I will be happy.
[00:14:07]  Get the devil back.
[00:14:09]  I will be happy to provide you with a complimentary exorcism session.
[00:14:16]  No, thank you.
[00:14:17]  I don't have a demon, Bob.
[00:14:19]  Wait a minute.
[00:14:19]  I wanted to talk about the Bible.
[00:14:20]  I don't have a demon.
[00:14:22]  Which we're first of all, we have to we have to appreciate the fact that Bob is the only one who has the balls to come in here and talk to you.
[00:14:31]  Oh, that's kudos big balls No one else will know nobody Bob and this was Harvard.
[00:14:36]  Okay, okay, so this was Harvard But you're not letting me talk let him talk you're not letting me you're not like you're trying to control the agenda.
[00:14:44]  So that's why I'm here.
[00:14:45]  Let me finish speaking where it's just You and me and maybe you A ministry associate there with me, and that we have a candid conversation about you and your life and your beliefs.
[00:15:01]  And I'm very happy to do that.
[00:15:03]  But that would have to be in a setting where there's transparency and honesty and we can have an exchange without playing to the galleries.
[00:15:15]  Yes, definitely.
[00:15:16]  That's a great, wonderful idea.
[00:15:19]  If I were demon possessed, Bob, but I'm not demon possessed and I don't need your spiritual help.
[00:15:24]  I was coming to you as one former man of God to another person who appreciates the Bible, Bob.
[00:15:32]  And I just want to know, please tell me, why was Jesus arrested?
[00:15:36]  This is the reason I didn't want you around in this room when I talked with him is because you're a control freak trying to get the upper hand on everything.
[00:15:45]  So just be a human.
[00:15:46]  I'll answer.
[00:15:46]  That's the only question I have.
[00:15:47]  Just talk to me.
[00:15:49]  Talk to me as a human being.
[00:15:50]  Just ask him kindly what your question is.
[00:15:53]  As a human being, when Jesus was arrested and guilty with a naked kid, screaming, I'm not a child, we know what you think about it.
[00:16:02]  Could it be that he was actually I'm about 30 seconds from walking out.
[00:16:06]  We have to take turns.
[00:16:08]  I'm going to ask the question, and then we have to stop, and we have to let Bob give his response.
[00:16:11]  That's reasonable.
[00:16:13]  When Jesus Christ was arrested in Gethsemane at 4 a.m. with a naked boy screaming, I am not a child, or lacedes in Greek, could it actually be, Bob, that he was kind of creep doing creepy things?
[00:16:29]  Bob, the stage is yours.
[00:16:33]  Are you suggesting that Christ was a No, I'm saying.
[00:16:38]  Are you saying that he was a?
[00:16:40]  Are you saying that?
[00:16:41]  The text says that Jesus died.
[00:16:42]  Are you saying that Christ was a?
[00:16:45]  Based upon what you think the text said.
[00:16:47]  I think what he's saying is no.
[00:16:49]  He doesn't believe that.
[00:16:50]  He's not stating his own beliefs.
[00:16:52]  What he's saying is he is righteous.
[00:16:54]  I'm not interested in arguments.
[00:16:55]  I'm saying the text.
[00:16:56]  I want the real Jesus.
[00:16:57]  That's intellectual dishonesty, and you know it, and you're not going to overpower me the way you normally do people.
[00:17:07]  It's no wonder nobody wants to talk to you.
[00:17:09]  Okay?
[00:17:10]  So if you are suggesting in any way, shape, or form on any evidentiary basis that you have in your mind that Christ did that, there's no dialogue that we can have.
[00:17:27]  I'm still willing to meet with you in private where there's no need for you to have to play to an audience and no need for me to prove anything to anybody.
[00:17:40]  Have you read this, Bob?
[00:17:41]  Have you actually read the Bible?
[00:17:42]  Okay.
[00:17:42]  You're just a broken record.
[00:17:44]  No, no, no.
[00:17:45]  You don't want to talk about that.
[00:17:48]  You honestly don't possess the intellectual latitude to move outside of a predetermined frame of reference where you can beat your drum, and I'm not going to buy into that, okay?
[00:18:01]  Is that me?
[00:18:04]  You're not questioning whether or not Bob has read the Bible.
[00:18:07]  Because what do you think?
[00:18:09]  If there's something, if there's possible that he missed something, what do you think that is?
[00:18:12]  You know, because Bob does what Bible scholars always do, and New Testament theologians, divinity degrees.
[00:18:18]  They don't have access to that ground-based material.
[00:18:24]  And you're referring to the original sources.
[00:18:26]  To the philology.
[00:18:27]  They don't have access to the text.
[00:18:32]  What we have here is you against the world, you against 2,000 years of church history, you against the most esteemed scholars in the world.
[00:18:42]  And quite frankly, I don't think you match up.
[00:18:46]  And I'm not willing to have that debate because it's a dishonest debate.
[00:18:50]  What's a Christ?
[00:18:51]  In my opinion.
[00:18:52]  Okay.
[00:18:52]  No, I know where you're going with that, and there's no point in saying that.
[00:18:55]  Why, Bob, you tell everybody what a Christ is.
[00:18:57]  You just converted this man.
[00:18:59]  Just tell me.
[00:19:00]  What is a Christ?
[00:19:01]  No, we didn't convert him.
[00:19:02]  What we did was to nudge him along the pathway.
[00:19:05]  I just gave up.
[00:19:06]  I just gave myself to Christ.
[00:19:07]  I just, I was a Christ.
[00:19:09]  I hope that you did give a measure of your life to Christ.
[00:19:12]  And that is a great step to take.
[00:19:14]  So Amon told me and two million people on my podcast, most of which believe what he is saying because we have no way of discerning whether he's telling them lying or not.
[00:19:23]  We have no way of finding out reading these texts.
[00:19:26]  But the way Amon described it to us, and there's millions of views on this stuff that.
[00:19:31]  The word Christ in ancient Greek, the first time the word Christ was ever used in the history of humanity was for somebody that was using drugs.
[00:19:39]  Okay, well, that's the gospel according to Amon.
[00:19:42]  No, no, not the gospel.
[00:19:44]  He's not using drugs.
[00:19:44]  No, no, no, no.
[00:19:45]  That's the gospel according to him.
[00:19:46]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:19:48]  All right.
[00:19:48]  No, that was diabolical.
[00:19:51]  So, we're going to discard the canonization of scripture, all the councils of the church that have been held throughout the ages.
[00:20:03]  At great time, effort, and intellectual energy to go through all of these issues over and over again.
[00:20:12]  And we're just going to, because of this guy, throw them out the window and say they don't matter anymore because I am the Greek scholar who knows the truth.
[00:20:20]  I don't think we need to throw anything out the window.
[00:20:22]  All I'm looking for.
[00:20:23]  Yes, we are.
[00:20:24]  I'm not, personally.
[00:20:25]  I know you're not.
[00:20:27]  I don't think.
[00:20:27]  I think it's okay that he is.
[00:20:28]  I think it's okay that he is.
[00:20:30]  But I don't think.
[00:20:30]  He's entitled to have his position.
[00:20:32]  Of course.
[00:20:33]  As so are you, and so am I.
[00:20:34]  But my goal here is to just have a dialogue.
[00:20:37]  No one's willing to have this dialogue, and I think it's freaking incredible that we're able to have it.
[00:20:41]  We're not having a dialogue.
[00:20:43]  We're not having a dialogue.
[00:20:44]  It's a very important thing to have a dialogue here.
[00:20:45]  Because he is stuck like a politician on talking points, and he is going to stay there and not move off of that to deal with the larger realm of church history, the Hebrew scriptures, as well.
[00:21:04]  as the Septuagint.
[00:21:07]  Do you read the Septuagint, Bob?
[00:21:09]  And so as a result of that, he's got a couple of basic talking points, and he's just going to keep throwing those out there over and over and over.
[00:21:19]  Do you actually read the Septuagint?
[00:21:20]  Which is intellectually dishonest.
[00:21:22]  Do you read the Bible as the Septuagint?
[00:21:25]  I know you're going to get up and leave because you're a coward.
[00:21:28]  But the devil asked me to ask you, have you actually read the Septuagint?
[00:21:33]  If I hear one more ad hominem argument this summer who do you think you are?
[00:21:38]  You want to walk out?
[00:21:39]  Take the money and walk.
[00:21:41]  Take it and walk.
[00:21:42]  You're a coward.
[00:21:43]  You don't read these texts, and people just like you are afraid.
[00:21:48]  The head of Dallas Theological Seminary's Greek program wouldn't come here, Bob, and sit where you are because none of you actually reads ancient Greek.
[00:21:57]  May I ask a question?
[00:21:58]  Yes, it's your turn.
[00:21:59]  It's your turn.
[00:22:01]  You are a self confessed former Christian.
[00:22:05]  Yes.
[00:22:06]  Okay.
[00:22:06]  Absolutely.
[00:22:07]  And you were.
[00:22:10]  Born again.
[00:22:11]  Definitely.
[00:22:12]  Huh?
[00:22:13]  Definitely.
[00:22:14]  Okay.
[00:22:15]  And then at some point, you walked away from that.
[00:22:21]  Definitely, yes.
[00:22:21]  Okay.
[00:22:23]  Now, without trying to make it sound like Greek and Hebrew had you walk away from it, can you tell me what that negative epiphany was?
[00:22:36]  Yes, it was Aristotle's pure muse.
[00:22:40]  It was that genius.
[00:22:42]  It was that genius in the Greek, which is far harder.
[00:22:44]  If you studied any, you know that Greek is capacity that English can never achieve.
[00:22:50]  We've all heard this before from you.
[00:22:52]  I want to know from a personal standpoint.
[00:22:54]  That turned me the beauty in that.
[00:22:56]  That's what you claim as an intellectual vortex, but I want to know what the practical decision was based on to walk away from your faith and to deny Christ to the extent to which you have.
[00:23:11]  So to call it a file, how did you get from here to here?
[00:23:15]  I just want to know.
[00:23:16]  Wait, what's the file doing?
[00:23:18]  How did you get from your original view of Christ to the file Christ?
[00:23:22]  Oh, that took years of study.
[00:23:28]  You know, I wrote in a book, Bob, The Chemical Muse that I published, I wrote in that book that Hebrew was the original language of the Greek, I mean, of the Old Testament, just like everybody else says, right?
[00:23:41]  Just like any panel of scholars would tell you.
[00:23:43]  I wrote that in a book.
[00:23:45]  Why?
[00:23:46]  Because it was not until I actually read and read and reread and worked with those sources until I realized, oh my God, this thing is not a translation.
[00:23:58]  This is gorgeous, perfect Greek.

=== From Original View to File Christ (09:59) ===

[00:24:00]  Okay.
[00:24:01]  Precise.
[00:24:02]  Okay, we've heard all this before on his show.
[00:24:05]  Yeah.
[00:24:06]  So, who published that book?
[00:24:08]  The Septuagint?
[00:24:10]  No, no, the book that you just referred to.
[00:24:12]  No, no, no.
[00:24:12]  He's talking about the Chemical Muse?
[00:24:13]  You're talking about the Chemical Muse?
[00:24:15]  The book that he published?
[00:24:16]  Yeah.
[00:24:17]  Who published that book?
[00:24:18]  Who published Chemical Muse?
[00:24:19]  Was it Macmillan?
[00:24:21]  It's Macmillan now, but originally it's St. James.
[00:24:24]  No, what's his name?
[00:24:26]  It's a saint.
[00:24:27]  What was the name of the publisher?
[00:24:29]  Yeah, I'll think of it.
[00:24:30]  Oh, God.
[00:24:30]  Steve, Google it.
[00:24:32]  Thomas Dunn Books and St. Martin's Press.
[00:24:37]  St. Martin's Press.
[00:24:39]  Okay.
[00:24:40]  Just curious.
[00:24:41]  How is that relevant, though?
[00:24:43]  It's very relevant.
[00:24:44]  I'm curious.
[00:24:45]  Because that's not a respected Christian publisher.
[00:24:50]  It's a publisher that puts out a lot of crazy stuff out there.
[00:24:53]  I wasn't trying to target the audience.
[00:24:56]  It was just general.
[00:24:57]  There was no.
[00:24:58]  And was there a theological overview board that.
[00:25:04]  That passed off on what you wrote in the book?
[00:25:07]  No, it wasn't a theological book.
[00:25:10]  No, it was a historical book.
[00:25:13]  It was a history book.
[00:25:14]  It was a history book on Roman pharmacy.
[00:25:16]  I stand by the offer that I made.
[00:25:19]  And I think it's a good offer.
[00:25:22]  I'm getting a little tired of the devil staring me in the face on your shirt.
[00:25:26]  Why would you?
[00:25:27]  Okay.
[00:25:29]  We're just here to let the audience learn from you guys and listen to these ideas.
[00:25:35]  Wow.
[00:25:36]  But we have a clash, as I've already stated to you, of apostasy and a departure from the faith, virulent apostasy that is demonically based, in my opinion, and it's very difficult to have dialogue.
[00:25:56]  How do you think that it's demonically based?
[00:25:58]  Well, I think you're being aggressive and a little bit nasty, and that's not really lending itself well to us.
[00:26:03]  We've calmed it down.
[00:26:04]  You called him a coward.
[00:26:05]  That was a nice.
[00:26:06]  I just asked a practical coward.
[00:26:07]  I asked a practical question and really didn't get an answer as to okay, what was your question?
[00:26:14]  I'm sorry.
[00:26:15]  How and when, leaving the Greek and the Hebrew out of it and all of that intellectual posturing, just how and when, what age did you walk away from the faith?
[00:26:26]  I was 21.
[00:26:27]  And I was sitting in the room that I was renting with Jose, who's a veterinary student.
[00:26:33]  It was a brilliant time.
[00:26:36]  And I was sitting there reading Aristotle.
[00:26:38]  And I realized, oh my God, the gorgeousness of this universe and the reason it's so beautiful.
[00:26:46]  It must be the foundation of everything.
[00:26:49]  And it clicked in my head.
[00:26:52]  It clicked in my head, something classical clicked in my head and I said oh, I get it.
[00:26:58]  I understand the burden of sin.
[00:27:01]  Right, because I was a big, I was a you know, I was a bible scholar.
[00:27:06]  I was, you know, I was a student.
[00:27:08]  Okay, what do you mean by that?
[00:27:09]  I have a question.
[00:27:10]  So you understand the burden of sin, what did you mean by that?
[00:27:12]  Um so um, the beauty of the universe is in, in the design that it is um perfect right.
[00:27:22]  And the classical world understood this and they worshiped, as bible tell you, they worshiped, as a result, nature and the organization and music.
[00:27:31]  Remember, a third of education music, a third of education music.
[00:27:35]  Yeah harmony, baby.
[00:27:37]  If you don't understand what harmony is, it's because you don't worship nature.
[00:27:41]  So that's what I was okay, thinking about when I was reading Aaron.
[00:27:46]  That was.
[00:27:46]  That was an abrupt u-turn from where you were at, theologically and personally, and so definitely okay, And so you chose Socrates.
[00:27:57]  You chose Greek philosophy.
[00:27:58]  I didn't choose Socrates.
[00:27:59]  No, I didn't.
[00:28:00]  Well, not Socrates.
[00:28:01]  I got to think about Plato.
[00:28:02]  Greek philosophy and all the gods and goddesses that come along with it and that understanding of a worldview that became.
[00:28:11]  No, I had a demon help me there.
[00:28:13]  I think I'm going to pre identify what you're going to identify as a demon.
[00:28:16]  So when I reached that point, you basically adopted a Socratic worldview.
[00:28:21]  No, no, absolutely not.
[00:28:22]  It was not that sophisticated.
[00:28:24]  I was sitting there reading.
[00:28:26]  Aristotle and I realized the beauty and harmony of the universe.
[00:28:30]  The first thing I said, I've got to go get laid.
[00:28:33]  And I went to a bar and I picked out the first girl that was good looking.
[00:28:38]  And I said, you must take me home and you must fornicate.
[00:28:41]  And she said, great.
[00:28:42]  I said, I'm a virgin.
[00:28:43]  Are you being facetious or truthful?
[00:28:45]  Absolutely not.
[00:28:46]  I just take you to the bar that I went to.
[00:28:48]  It's a country western bar.
[00:28:49]  Oh, yeah.
[00:28:50]  You talked about this in the first podcast.
[00:28:51]  Wait, wait.
[00:28:52]  You had this a moment and you did what?
[00:28:56]  You went to a bar and you decided that you wanted to go and got laid.
[00:28:59]  I understood the beauty and I realized, holy mackerel, I want that beauty.
[00:29:04]  I was a virgin, Bob.
[00:29:05]  You know how it is when you're in the church?
[00:29:07]  You got to keep that virginity going.
[00:29:10]  Right?
[00:29:11]  Can you just stop editorializing and give us some facts here?
[00:29:15]  You went to the bar.
[00:29:16]  Yeah, Your Honor, I went out and I got laid because I was 21.
[00:29:20]  Can you hear him okay?
[00:29:21]  It was not Aristotle's fault.
[00:29:22]  It wasn't Aristotle's fault.
[00:29:24]  You went to the bar and then you went and got laid.
[00:29:28]  Yes.
[00:29:28]  Okay.
[00:29:29]  Fantastic.
[00:29:29]  Okay.
[00:29:30]  All right.
[00:29:31]  Well, and then, and then, was there something about your first sexual experience losing your virginity that had something to do with this?
[00:29:38]  Yeah, it didn't feel guilty, it felt good.
[00:29:43]  And I can't, let me ask you this.
[00:29:45]  I don't know the answer to this.
[00:29:46]  Hold on, were you a virgin because of your devotion?
[00:29:48]  Definitely.
[00:29:49]  I've listened to J. Vernon McGee.
[00:29:51]  Do you know J. Vernon McGee?
[00:29:53]  Do I know J. Vernon McGee?
[00:29:55]  Bless his dearly departed soul.
[00:29:57]  Of course, I know who he was.
[00:29:58]  Yeah, so, so you what a man.
[00:30:00]  Yeah, it was a man.
[00:30:01]  Well.
[00:30:03]  Yes, he had a lot of theological prejudices, but that's not the issue.
[00:30:07]  He was a.
[00:30:08]  He's not a pervert, though.
[00:30:09]  That guy was straight up.
[00:30:10]  Let me understand this.
[00:30:12]  Yeah, go ahead.
[00:30:14]  Born again Christian.
[00:30:15]  Yeah.
[00:30:15]  Loving Jesus.
[00:30:16]  Yes.
[00:30:19]  As I understand, admiring me and what I did.
[00:30:22]  Yes.
[00:30:23]  Okay, okay, okay.
[00:30:24]  Let him interrogate you.
[00:30:25]  Sorry, am I telling you?
[00:30:26]  No, you're good.
[00:30:27]  You're good.
[00:30:27]  And then.
[00:30:32]  Aristotle's view of reality.
[00:30:36]  Of good and evil, of the cosmos and how it exists and why it exists, turns you around.
[00:30:48]  You go to a bar and then get laid, and it felt good.
[00:30:51]  That's what you said.
[00:30:52]  Exactly.
[00:30:53]  Okay.
[00:30:57]  Guilty as charged.
[00:30:59]  Of what?
[00:31:00]  Of apostasy.
[00:31:03]  That, obviously.
[00:31:05]  But with demon or not?
[00:31:06]  Obviously, in my opinion, you turned.
[00:31:10]  You made a moral U turn.
[00:31:13]  Remember what I said earlier?
[00:31:15]  People don't have as much of an intellectual objection to the gospel as they have a moral objection to the gospel.
[00:31:22]  Arrest my case.
[00:31:24]  You had a moral objection and you decided to go down that path, which was contrary to the path that preceded you.
[00:31:35]  Correct.
[00:31:36]  To which you were very devoted.
[00:31:37]  Oh, God.
[00:31:38]  I used to, Bob, I used to jerk off and get so depressed because Jesus was watching me jerk off.
[00:31:44]  And I knew it was bad, man.
[00:31:45]  I knew it was bad.
[00:31:47]  Did that affect you?
[00:31:48]  Oh, wait a minute.
[00:31:49]  Did that have any effect on you?
[00:31:50]  Oh, yeah.
[00:31:50]  Every time I was coming over from college and I looked up at the billboard, they had this weird thing.
[00:31:54]  At this point, you need to know about your masturbation practice.
[00:31:58]  Well, he was saying that.
[00:31:59]  I think the reason he was explaining that was because he felt like he was sinning by actually going out and having sex with a woman.
[00:32:05]  So he had to masturbate and he felt, he said, I think what he said, he felt guilty of that.
[00:32:11]  Okay.
[00:32:12]  The guilt of masturbation.
[00:32:13]  So finally, you dispelled that guilt by going out and having sexual intercourse.
[00:32:18]  I dispelled it all night long.
[00:32:20]  So did that make him?
[00:32:22]  You sinned and you loved it.
[00:32:24]  Definitely.
[00:32:25]  And it's been downhill ever since.
[00:32:27]  No.
[00:32:28]  No.
[00:32:28]  That was the beginning of my training.
[00:32:30]  It's been glorious.
[00:32:31]  Okay.
[00:32:32]  Okay.
[00:32:32]  So your life has been better since you left Christ?
[00:32:35]  Oh, God, if you can't find Aphrodite, right?
[00:32:38]  Christianity blocks you from Aphrodite, right?
[00:32:41]  And that's a whole part of existence, the Great Mother.
[00:32:44]  That's why you can't worship a Great Mother in Christianity.
[00:32:47]  Why can't you worship it?
[00:32:48]  Is that true?
[00:32:48]  You can't worship a Great Mother?
[00:32:49]  Well, you know, this could get rather interesting.
[00:32:53]  I've been to Ephesus.
[00:32:54]  I've seen the statues of Aphrodite, which is this goddess with multiple breasts.
[00:33:04]  That's Artemis.
[00:33:05]  That's Artemis, but it's also Aphrodite.
[00:33:07]  No, it's not.
[00:33:08]  Artemis is a virgin.
[00:33:09]  Artemis is a virgin.
[00:33:10]  They're basically interchangeable.
[00:33:12]  No, no.
[00:33:12]  You have Saxon.
[00:33:13]  That's okay.
[00:33:14]  No, that's a big distinction.
[00:33:16]  You can't say Artemis.
[00:33:17]  With his pendulum breast hanging from her.
[00:33:19]  Yes.
[00:33:20]  And it was in front of statues like this that the maidens were deflowered to become advocates of the goddess.
[00:33:30]  I mean, there's all sorts of hideous stuff.
[00:33:32]  Okay.
[00:33:33]  But it's all, almost all of it, The Greeks were highly sexualized.
[00:33:37]  Yes.
[00:33:37]  Right.
[00:33:37]  Yeah.
[00:33:38]  I think he made that what he did.
[00:33:39]  And this is what the culture was based on.
[00:33:41]  And then this is what he bought into.
[00:33:43]  So this part of the conversation has been helpful to me to understand.
[00:33:49]  But what nationality are you?
[00:33:53]  Oh, God.
[00:33:54]  Just a mixture.
[00:33:55]  Just a whole bunch of some Dutch ancestors, some German, some Scottish.

=== Artemis, Aphrodite, and Deflowering (05:50) ===

[00:34:00]  There's, I said, no, people just loved men.
[00:34:03]  Dutch, German, Scott.
[00:34:05]  Yeah.
[00:34:05]  Is that basically it?
[00:34:07]  No, supposedly there may be some native in there as well, but you know.
[00:34:11]  Yeah, okay.
[00:34:13]  Well, that's to me as an exorcist consistent with what you're telling me.
[00:34:19]  No Scandinavian, though.
[00:34:21]  Well, thank God he doesn't have the Vikings you did.
[00:34:23]  Yeah.
[00:34:24]  By the way, I should have had you break that curse.
[00:34:29]  So I think what we're talking about here, in my estimation, is an exorcist, is that The currents that he had just described was not as epiphanous in a negative sense as we might think of it.
[00:34:47]  It was the end result of a process that was intergenerational and probably going back to these ancestries.
[00:34:56]  And there is something highly sexualized and debaucherous back there that was looking for a way to work itself through.
[00:35:06]  And it found a victim, and he was that victim.
[00:35:11]  And unfortunately, he did what he did.
[00:35:13]  But I would like to say I want to make one.
[00:35:16]  I just want to finish by saying.
[00:35:18]  Okay.
[00:35:21]  To me, the mystery of Christ is that even Ammon could return to the fold and become an advocate for the grace and the mercy of God.
[00:35:42]  Paul killed Christians.
[00:35:44]  Two thieves were crucified with Jesus.
[00:35:47]  One repented.
[00:35:49]  Oh, they were thieves.
[00:35:50]  I do not.
[00:35:51]  What?
[00:35:52]  The thieves were crucified on both sides?
[00:35:54]  One repented, one didn't.
[00:35:56]  I'm just saying that I marvel at the grace of God that even you could return to faith in Christ.
[00:36:05]  I don't know what it would take.
[00:36:07]  I don't know how it could happen.
[00:36:09]  I'd be happy.
[00:36:09]  It could happen.
[00:36:10]  You'd have to explain to me.
[00:36:12]  I would love to play some part in that process.
[00:36:14]  Like those thieves.
[00:36:15]  It doesn't say they're thieves, but it says they're child.
[00:36:19]  You're worthy of death in the world according to Roman law.
[00:36:23]  The problem, as I see it, is that you've dug such a deep hole by being so vehement in your opposition to historic Christianity as we know it and 2,000 years of church history.
[00:36:37]  It would take a lot to turn that ship around.
[00:36:40]  Bob, do you understand?
[00:36:41]  God is powerful and God could do it.
[00:36:44]  Yeah.
[00:36:45]  So, my perspective, and I think a lot of people listening to this hear the history of the word laistase and the translations of the word laistase, which.
[00:36:55]  Julius Caesar famously called the guys that kidnapped him, the pirates that kidnapped him and held ransom for him, he crucified them and he called them publicly laystays, right?
[00:37:08]  These guys were people who kidnapped a child, Julius Caesar, when he was a child.
[00:37:13]  So when you see Jesus saying, being caught in this scene in the Bible in the public park with the kid, and he goes, I'm not a laystays, I'm not a laystays.
[00:37:22]  And then eight hours later, he's crucified.
[00:37:27]  Which is what happens to people who are kidnapping children.
[00:37:30]  That's the gospel according to Amun.
[00:37:32]  No, no, no.
[00:37:32]  But that's the true history of what happened with Julius Caesar.
[00:37:36]  It is not the true history.
[00:37:37]  That's not what happened to Julius Caesar?
[00:37:39]  Why don't you consult independent scholars about those questions?
[00:37:47]  I have.
[00:37:47]  I've asked independent scholars about the history of Julius Caesar.
[00:37:49]  I'd like them to be on your show, but this is off the show.
[00:37:51]  This is private conversations I've had.
[00:37:53]  No, okay.
[00:37:54]  Well, I always suggest that you do that.
[00:37:56]  So, as I understand, were you dismissed from Dallas Theological Seminary?
[00:38:01]  No, I left.
[00:38:02]  I went and saw the president, and I left.
[00:38:04]  And I told him, I said, your program's not what it's up to.
[00:38:07]  It's not the standard as it was under J. Vernon McGee.
[00:38:10]  And he agreed to me, this is Walford.
[00:38:12]  He said, I know that.
[00:38:14]  He said that?
[00:38:15]  Yes, your Greek program is terrible.
[00:38:18]  It's fallen off.
[00:38:19]  At that point, I already had a bachelor's, so it was a waste of time.
[00:38:23]  I would suggest you take that question to a.
[00:38:27]  Conservative seminary like Dallas.
[00:38:29]  He did to Dallas.
[00:38:31]  Wouldn't I want to take that to an unbiased source?
[00:38:36]  Because by definition, somebody who's in a seminary is going to be biased towards you.
[00:38:39]  You're taking this from a biased source.
[00:38:42]  I agree.
[00:38:43]  They're all going to be, everybody's biased.
[00:38:45]  I've asked people who are in the middle of this, though, people who aren't on the religious side, people who think Amon is full of shit.
[00:38:50]  I've talked to people who think he's completely full of shit.
[00:38:53]  And I asked them about this history of Caesar or Julius Caesar and crucifying Lestace and the word Lestace being used.
[00:39:01]  And they can agree on that.
[00:39:03]  They don't necessarily agree with his theories, but they do agree on that principle.
[00:39:07]  Okay.
[00:39:09]  So that's what I'm just asking.
[00:39:11]  Do you understand my position, why I'm skeptical?
[00:39:13]  Yeah, I understand your position.
[00:39:14]  You're not a Greek scholar.
[00:39:16]  Do you understand why I'm skeptical, though?
[00:39:18]  How can I be aggressive?
[00:39:19]  I understand that because you've been tainted by him.
[00:39:23]  Hey, now you're getting aggressive.
[00:39:25]  Okay.
[00:39:26]  I love it, Bobby.
[00:39:27]  And talk free.
[00:39:28]  He's not credible.
[00:39:30]  Oh.
[00:39:30]  Okay.
[00:39:31]  So he does have a PhD in classical philosophy.
[00:39:32]  Well, but he appears to, and he wants to be considered that.
[00:39:40]  But in the bigger scheme of things, I understand you.
[00:39:44]  Maybe you haven't been able to facilitate the forum that would allow the proper scholars to be here and debate.

=== Skepticism on Caesar's History (16:08) ===

[00:39:50]  That.
[00:39:52]  I think this will open the door to it.
[00:39:53]  Now that you've kind of broken the seal, I think now this will open the door to it.
[00:39:57]  I do think that somebody who claims to be following Christ, who suddenly throws that overboard for Aristotle and A Night of Hot Sex, is really not credible.
[00:40:15]  That's what you're basing credibility on.
[00:40:17]  You realize he can't read this.
[00:40:21]  This is great, Bob.
[00:40:22]  Would you like to translate for us?
[00:40:23]  Here.
[00:40:24]  Here's the Bible.
[00:40:25]  It's the Bible, Bob.
[00:40:26]  The devil told me to do this.
[00:40:28]  It's the Bible, Bob.
[00:40:29]  He thinks the devil is talking to him, Bob.
[00:40:31]  Watch people.
[00:40:32]  Look.
[00:40:33]  Look at your audience.
[00:40:34]  He's not talking.
[00:40:35]  He's manifesting demons.
[00:40:36]  He's manifesting demons.
[00:40:38]  You don't want to play this, Bob.
[00:40:39]  Don't let Danny show the world that you cannot read the fucking Bible.
[00:40:45]  You flim-flamming.
[00:40:47]  That's from the devil.
[00:40:48]  That's not from him.
[00:40:48]  Make sure and get the flim-flamming.
[00:40:50]  Make sure and get the flim-flamming.
[00:40:52]  And he said something about the incubus in your wife.
[00:40:54]  You're digging your hole deeper, Amon.
[00:40:56]  You really maybe should stop walking.
[00:40:58]  Oh, God.
[00:40:58]  You're afraid.
[00:41:00]  I do have a question.
[00:41:01]  They're afraid.
[00:41:01]  The people are afraid.
[00:41:02]  We're doing this to learn.
[00:41:03]  I think we're learning a lot.
[00:41:05]  May I ask a simple question?
[00:41:07]  Sure.
[00:41:07]  Is Amon your christened name?
[00:41:09]  It is my third name.
[00:41:10]  It's in my second millennium.
[00:41:11]  Exactly.
[00:41:13]  Has anybody called you out on that?
[00:41:15]  Look.
[00:41:15]  Here.
[00:41:16]  Here.
[00:41:17]  It's on my driver's license.
[00:41:19]  But it's not your christened name.
[00:41:21]  What the hell?
[00:41:21]  What does that mean?
[00:41:24]  What did your parents name you?
[00:41:25]  My mother gave me four names when I was born.
[00:41:29]  David Charles Almond Hillman and I go by Almond because David murdered a bunch of people.
[00:41:37]  Wait, wait, wait.
[00:41:37]  Why did they give you Almond?
[00:41:40]  Let's see the driver's license.
[00:41:41]  We need proof.
[00:41:44]  Can you punch it on this, Steve?
[00:41:45]  I'm just asking.
[00:41:46]  Why did they give you David Charles Hillman?
[00:41:49]  It doesn't say Almond.
[00:41:50]  Oh, they didn't put the fucking Almond on me.
[00:41:53]  It's on my birth certificate.
[00:41:54]  No, no, no.
[00:41:54]  If you don't stop saying that word, I will leave.
[00:41:57]  I'm not going to put up with that.
[00:41:59]  Can I bring Chewy and just tell him that it's on my birth certificate?
[00:42:02]  It's my second memory.
[00:42:03]  We need to make this.
[00:42:04]  Hold on, but yes, okay.
[00:42:05]  We need to make this something that people can learn from.
[00:42:07]  That's the purpose of this.
[00:42:08]  Not, not YouTube friendly.
[00:42:09]  No, no, it's just respectful so people can learn from this.
[00:42:11]  We need to make this where did the name Almond come from?
[00:42:17]  I'm, I'm, where did the name Almond come from?
[00:42:19]  Um, my uncle's name is also Almond, his first name, so I don't know.
[00:42:23]  Yeah, I really don't.
[00:42:24]  With a bunch of immigrants from Europe, man, from all different places, I have no idea.
[00:42:29]  No idea.
[00:42:30]  Yeah, just curious.
[00:42:32]  Yeah, no, that's okay.
[00:42:33]  Where do you think it comes from?
[00:42:34]  What makes you curious?
[00:42:35]  I don't know.
[00:42:37]  Maybe the Ammonites.
[00:42:39]  Who are the Ammonites?
[00:42:41]  Ask him.
[00:42:41]  Who are the Ammonites?
[00:42:42]  Oh, they're nobody.
[00:42:43]  They're nobody.
[00:42:44]  Isidore said, huh?
[00:42:47]  Isidore, St. Isidore.
[00:42:49]  He wrote.
[00:42:51]  I'm talking about the ancient civilization.
[00:42:54]  I know you're talking about the Ammonites, or as my southern relatives' preachers would say, the Ammonites.
[00:42:59]  They say Ammonites, but you say Ammonites.
[00:43:01]  And I'm just curious.
[00:43:03]  I don't know.
[00:43:03]  You know, that may be just a red herring, but I find it rather interesting that you were given that name, if that is what you were given.
[00:43:11]  Yes, I haven't given it myself.
[00:43:13]  And you want to tell this man what the Ammonites were like, what they did?
[00:43:17]  It was one of the groups that.
[00:43:18]  You know, they wanted to destroy Israel in the Septuagint.
[00:43:23]  They're talking about Israel.
[00:43:24]  They were the enemy of Israel.
[00:43:26]  And they had to totally overthrow the people.
[00:43:28]  And they practiced human sacrifice.
[00:43:30]  He's letting you talk.
[00:43:31]  Let's let him describe.
[00:43:33]  I'm not sure he's going to tell you the whole truth.
[00:43:35]  Well, if he doesn't, then you can correct him.
[00:43:36]  They were one of the people that was genocided in antiquity.
[00:43:40]  Yeah.
[00:43:41]  The Ptolemies were genocided.
[00:43:42]  That's what the text says.
[00:43:44]  Yeah.
[00:43:44]  Okay.
[00:43:44]  There's not much evidence for it.
[00:43:46]  But just who are they historically?
[00:43:48]  Mm hmm.
[00:43:48]  Who were they historically?
[00:43:49]  Who did they worship?
[00:43:52]  I think you're probably going to say Molech or something like that.
[00:43:55]  Yes, Molech, yes.
[00:43:57]  And they practiced infant sacrifice.
[00:44:00]  And blood rituals.
[00:44:02]  And all sorts of sexual licentiousness.
[00:44:04]  All sorts.
[00:44:05]  Okay, so I don't know that there's a connection, but oftentimes a name, as you well know from ancient Hebrew culture, always designated something spiritually about the progeny.
[00:44:21]  Now, Is it possible that there's a curse of Amun on this man?
[00:44:29]  And it was put there, maybe not deliberately, but perhaps deliberately by an ancestor.
[00:44:36]  I don't know.
[00:44:37]  If he's telling the truth, if this is an ancestral name, I would say I'd change my name.
[00:44:47]  But he hasn't.
[00:44:48]  And he may, I'm just suggesting.
[00:44:50]  Well, your name, your public name was D. What did you call it?
[00:44:53]  Did you ever call yourself?
[00:44:54]  David, or was it?
[00:44:55]  DCA Hillman was what I got.
[00:44:57]  When did you change it?
[00:44:58]  Publications, I didn't change anything my mind.
[00:45:00]  I mean.
[00:45:01]  When did you kill David?
[00:45:02]  You now want to be known as, when did you kill David?
[00:45:05]  Oh oh, when did I get rid of yeah, when I realized that he was you.
[00:45:08]  Now, you now want to be known as Amon, and is it?
[00:45:12]  No, Carl Ruck was sitting with me one day, Dr. Carl Ruck.
[00:45:15]  He's a classicist, and he's sitting with me one day.
[00:45:18]  He's a Harvard classical philologist.
[00:45:19]  I turned to him and I said, I said hey, you know, David was a mass murderer.
[00:45:23]  I hate that name.
[00:45:24]  And he goes, why don't you use your middle name?
[00:45:26]  What is it?
[00:45:26]  And I said well I, I've got two, Charles and Ammon.
[00:45:28]  And he goes, Oh, Ammon.
[00:45:30]  That's a good one.
[00:45:30]  Use that one.
[00:45:32]  That's a true story.
[00:45:33]  Is there a better ring to it than Charles?
[00:45:34]  There may be nothing to that, but I just find it interesting.
[00:45:38]  I find it interesting because everything that you're suggesting is consistent with that type of a belief system.
[00:45:46]  What if I told you that St. Isidore said that the name of the Antichrist is Ammon?
[00:45:52]  Could be.
[00:45:53]  Yeah, he said that.
[00:45:54]  Who is St. Isidore?
[00:45:55]  Well, it could be many names.
[00:45:57]  Yeah, no, I'm just, it's interesting.
[00:45:59]  Like you, I find it just interesting.
[00:46:01]  If you sacrificed your children to Moloch in a bloody ritual, I would say that could lead to the Antichrist.
[00:46:11]  It could lead to a lot of things.
[00:46:12]  But really, at a bottom line here, you're not interested in renouncing the devil and renouncing the path that you're on to receive an exorcism at this point.
[00:46:29]  You're not.
[00:46:31]  I wouldn't dare, I wouldn't dare step forward and renounce the devil.
[00:46:38]  I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
[00:46:39]  Just like I wouldn't dare step forward and renounce Vishnu, right?
[00:46:45]  I'm not a renouncer.
[00:46:47]  I'm not a renouncer, and I can't do that.
[00:46:48]  Okay, so you're not willing to renounce that?
[00:46:52]  No.
[00:46:52]  And as you know, every historic Christian baptism included the renunciation of the devil.
[00:47:01]  Of course.
[00:47:02]  Okay, all right.
[00:47:04]  And You're not willing to stand with historic Christianity.
[00:47:08]  No, because what we have now is the same.
[00:47:11]  Okay, okay, okay.
[00:47:12]  You've rewritten Christianity, you've rewritten the Bible, you've rewritten all these things, the gospel according to Ammon.
[00:47:19]  So there's really no discussion here except the possibility of a private discussion in which you might tell me some things you won't tell in front of a camera.
[00:47:32]  You know, in antiquity, Bob, the pagans and the Christians.
[00:47:34]  You're not responding to what I said.
[00:47:36]  I am responding with this answer.
[00:47:38]  In antiquity, the pagans and the Christians, prominent intellectuals, would come together and they still had that classical civilization's focus on the gymnasium.
[00:47:47]  And they would come just like you and me.
[00:47:49]  And they would debate back and forth, right?
[00:47:53]  I am not looking for any sort of ceremony with crosses.
[00:47:56]  I don't care.
[00:47:57]  It doesn't matter to me, Bob.
[00:47:58]  What matters to me is the facts that are in this book that I have dedicated my life to study.
[00:48:05]  We get that.
[00:48:06]  May I ask just an obvious question?
[00:48:09]  What is tattooed on your head?
[00:48:11]  Oh, my.
[00:48:12]  Goodness, Bob, that's the point.
[00:48:14]  The devil was saying, I can't see it.
[00:48:16]  I can't see it.
[00:48:16]  What is it?
[00:48:17]  Read it, Bob.
[00:48:18]  Well, I can't read it.
[00:48:20]  It says Medea.
[00:48:23]  That's Greek, Bob.
[00:48:25]  And why is it there?
[00:48:26]  What is the one on the other side?
[00:48:27]  There.
[00:48:28]  That linear B?
[00:48:29]  Yeah, this is linear B. Medea, same name.
[00:48:31]  And this, Bob, it's Etruscan.
[00:48:34]  And why is this?
[00:48:36]  Why is Medea there?
[00:48:38]  It's the same.
[00:48:39]  I'm telling you that it's the same name in Etruscan.
[00:48:43]  Matthias.
[00:48:45]  She was so well known in antiquity, the first Christ, that she was known all the way from the Black Sea to Spain.
[00:48:53]  Imagine being that popular in antiquity.
[00:48:55]  Why was she so popular?
[00:48:56]  It's difficult because of what she could do.
[00:48:59]  What could Christing drugs?
[00:49:01]  No, no, no.
[00:49:02]  You leap from Medea to Christ.
[00:49:04]  She was the first Christ.
[00:49:06]  Wait a minute.
[00:49:07]  Historically.
[00:49:07]  You're not telling me what she did.
[00:49:09]  What did she do?
[00:49:11]  What did she do?
[00:49:12]  Like, what was her job?
[00:49:13]  She was the queen of Babylon.
[00:49:16]  Yeah.
[00:49:18]  Queen of Babylon.
[00:49:19]  Yes.
[00:49:22]  The fountain of all witchcraft.
[00:49:24]  Babylon.
[00:49:26]  The Medes.
[00:49:27]  Babylon, the greatest fallen.
[00:49:29]  I'm sure you know those words.
[00:49:31]  Yes.
[00:49:31]  Yes, you're right.
[00:49:32]  Babylon, the symbol of ultimate evil.
[00:49:36]  The witchcraft, the sorcery, the pornea.
[00:49:40]  Very central.
[00:49:41]  That's basically what you have on your head.
[00:49:44]  Not basically.
[00:49:45]  That is what I have on my head.
[00:49:47]  And you think.
[00:49:49]  We can have a reasonable dialogue.
[00:49:51]  You really think that?
[00:49:52]  Why does that mean we can't have a dialogue?
[00:49:53]  I think this is fascinating.
[00:49:55]  You tattooed with a symbol of witchcraft and sorcery, and you want a dialogue.
[00:50:01]  On my head.
[00:50:01]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:50:02]  Definitely.
[00:50:03]  Why do you put tattoo names on your head in antiquity?
[00:50:07]  Come on now, Amon.
[00:50:09]  Can you drop the public persona for a moment and just be very real here?
[00:50:14]  You went from believing that Jesus Christ was your Lord and Savior.
[00:50:19]  Yes.
[00:50:20]  Definitely.
[00:50:20]  That you were a sinful being in need of forgiveness.
[00:50:26]  Overnight.
[00:50:27]  Yeah.
[00:50:27]  Because of Aristotle.
[00:50:29]  Not overnight, instantly with Aristotle.
[00:50:32]  Enjoying fornication.
[00:50:34]  Definitely.
[00:50:35]  And then tattooing on your head the whore of Babylon.
[00:50:43]  Yes.
[00:50:44]  The whore of Babylon.
[00:50:46]  Well, the whore of the porn.
[00:50:48]  That's an interesting leap.
[00:50:49]  You know, if I did not believe in the grace of God and the power of Christ, I would think you are hopeless, but you're not.
[00:50:57]  You're not hopeless.
[00:50:59]  There have been worse than you.
[00:51:01]  Who have turned again to Christ.
[00:51:03]  What is your understanding of Lady Babylon?
[00:51:06]  What is your understanding of Lady Babylon?
[00:51:08]  Your personal understanding of it?
[00:51:10]  Well, Babylon has both literally and metaphorically stood as the ultimate example of sorcery, witchcraft, and rebellion against God over and over again.
[00:51:21]  It's referred to as Medea because of this woman.
[00:51:23]  To ultimate rebellion against God.
[00:51:26]  Okay.
[00:51:27]  And in the end of time, Babylon the Great has fallen.
[00:51:31]  Yes.
[00:51:32]  It speaks of this.
[00:51:33]  Kingdom finally being judged by Christ and cast down at the end of the age.
[00:51:38]  The morning star.
[00:51:39]  By the morning star.
[00:51:40]  And so he has this on his head.
[00:51:44]  And who was Lady Babylon?
[00:51:45]  What did she do?
[00:51:46]  Well, this is just a symbol, okay?
[00:51:50]  The symbol is of rebellion, of witchcraft, of the worship of the devil, of human sacrifice.
[00:51:58]  You name it, all the licentious possibilities that are there.
[00:52:02]  What about Madison?
[00:52:03]  That is tattooed on his head.
[00:52:06]  Did you know the word medicine comes from Medea?
[00:52:08]  The guy who tattoos this on his head stands in judgment of Christ as a file.
[00:52:14]  I'm done.
[00:52:16]  I'm done.
[00:52:17]  I don't have enough Celsius to keep going.
[00:52:19]  That has nothing to do with the Bible, though.
[00:52:21]  But my offer still stands.
[00:52:23]  Yeah.
[00:52:23]  My offer still stands.
[00:52:24]  Because you're a flim flammer.
[00:52:25]  I'm not going to take a look at the Bible.
[00:52:26]  You came here to get five grand.
[00:52:28]  That's what you're talking about here for.
[00:52:30]  No microphones.
[00:52:31]  Just you and I talking man to man.
[00:52:33]  That's scary.
[00:52:34]  You're a scared little man.
[00:52:36]  And that's the problem.
[00:52:37]  Just like the first Christ.
[00:52:38]  He's not.
[00:52:38]  He's sat here and he's been talking to you for 30 minutes.
[00:52:40]  He hasn't been talking about the Bible.
[00:52:42]  He doesn't want to talk about the Bible because he can't.
[00:52:45]  Okay.
[00:52:45]  Just like the people at Harmony.
[00:52:46]  I am not.
[00:52:47]  Was it Christ, Bob?
[00:52:49]  You know.
[00:52:50]  How was Medea the first Christ?
[00:52:52]  Can you explain how Medea was a Christ?
[00:52:54]  Theodore Siculus, the historian, comes along and says, I told you if there were any more ad hominem arguments, we would be done.
[00:53:01]  You just talked about my tattoos.
[00:53:03]  You're such a hypocrite.
[00:53:04]  Just like the Christians everywhere.
[00:53:06]  But you didn't deny what I said about it.
[00:53:08]  You did not deny what I said about the tattoos.
[00:53:11]  You didn't deny it.
[00:53:13]  So, look.
[00:53:14]  What if I picked out your ears and I said, why don't you you take it personally, Bob.
[00:53:19]  Why don't you let me say a prayer?
[00:53:22]  You can say a prayer all you want.
[00:53:24]  I'm not restricting you.
[00:53:25]  I would like to say a prayer.
[00:53:27]  Please.
[00:53:27]  Let's do it.
[00:53:28]  Okay?
[00:53:28]  Please.
[00:53:29]  Let's say a prayer.
[00:53:30]  And I would like to put some holy oil on you when I pray.
[00:53:35]  You can take that holy oil and shove it in your ass, Bob.
[00:53:39]  I'm not one of your victims.
[00:53:41]  Wait a minute, what'd you just say?
[00:53:42]  I'm not one of your victims.
[00:53:43]  No, that's not what you just crossed.
[00:53:45]  You said psychologically abusive.
[00:53:48]  Why is the Holy Water psychologically abusive?
[00:53:50]  Wait, what did you just say?
[00:53:51]  I say I can do with this.
[00:53:53]  She said, shut the water where the sun doesn't shine.
[00:53:55]  Do you know what this is a symbol of?
[00:53:58]  I think it's a symbol of the Holy Spirit.
[00:54:01]  Desire to invade my space, weirdo.
[00:54:03]  It's a symbol of the Holy Spirit.
[00:54:06]  And you said I could shove it where?
[00:54:08]  What's the word for Holy Spirit?
[00:54:10]  What's the word for Holy Spirit, Bob?
[00:54:14]  You don't even know that you're a flim flammer.
[00:54:16]  You have any snake oil What is the word for Holy Spirit?
[00:54:19]  I don't know Seriously Bob look these are all his terms, dude.
[00:54:23]  He doesn't even know gospel What does the word gospel mean Bob?
[00:54:27]  All right.
[00:54:28]  What did I do with that?
[00:54:28]  Are we wrapping it up, Bob?
[00:54:30]  Or are you going to book me?
[00:54:31]  I'm a coward.
[00:54:32]  The devil told me you were a coward, Bob.
[00:54:35]  All right.
[00:54:35]  We're wrapping it up.
[00:54:36]  I will not listen to this.
[00:54:38]  I appreciate.
[00:54:39]  I appreciate.
[00:54:40]  Bob is kind of abusive.
[00:54:42]  Oh.
[00:54:42]  Filthy.
[00:54:43]  Look at him.
[00:54:43]  Naked.
[00:54:44]  He's been a crazy guy for years.
[00:54:46]  We don't need to call names.
[00:54:47]  Yeah.
[00:54:48]  Bob showed up here.
[00:54:49]  I do not have to put up a show.
[00:54:50]  I will not put up a show.
[00:54:51]  You're still going to pay him?
[00:54:53]  He engaged with you.
[00:54:54]  You're still going to pay him?
[00:54:55]  If he agrees to let me publish this, then yes.
[00:54:57]  Yeah.
[00:54:58]  Well, I'm not going to pay him.
[00:54:58]  I'm going to donate to the church.
[00:54:59]  Remember, Bob, that's what you're all about.
[00:55:02]  Remember that.
[00:55:03]  When he makes his charitable donation, that's you, buddy.
[00:55:06]  That's you.
[00:55:09]  Let me see that envelope.
[00:55:14]  Is there cash in here?
[00:55:15]  Cash.
[00:55:16]  No, I was going to rip it up.
[00:55:18]  That's your prostitution money.
[00:55:20]  You just have him give it to your church, you flim flammer.
[00:55:23]  All right.
[00:55:24]  Let's not be rude.
[00:55:26]  Dude, he said I was demon possessed.
[00:55:28]  He can't take it back?
[00:55:30]  Well, you can say, oh, I'm aggressive with the devil.
[00:55:32]  But when the devil gets aggressive with you, you're a coward and you back down.
[00:55:36]  You go live the rest of your life knowing the devil got the best over you.
[00:55:41]  I think this audience sees clearly what has happened here and your reframing of it is not important.
[00:55:47]  They do.
[00:55:48]  It's not hard work.
[00:55:49]  You're exactly right.
[00:55:50]  I will let the audience do the challenge.
[00:55:52]  You're exactly right.
[00:55:52]  That's the best thing to say.
[00:55:54]  You should have finished with that.
[00:55:54]  You should put that on the f***ing yeah, well.
[00:55:56]  Yeah.
[00:55:57]  Thank you.
[00:55:58]  Thank you, Bob.
[00:55:58]  I really appreciate your time.

=== Confronting the Devil Aggressively (01:00) ===

[00:55:59]  Don't touch my daughter on the way out either.
[00:56:02]  What?
[00:56:03]  Don't touch my daughter on the way out.
[00:56:07]  Are you recording that part?
[00:56:09]  Yeah, it's recording.
[00:56:10]  Oh Bob, i'm a dad, i'm just giving you advice.
[00:56:12]  You do the same thing with your daughters.
[00:56:17]  Bob, how many times did you talk about mocking children on the show?
[00:56:22]  And then you have the balls to look at me and say you got tattoos.
[00:56:26]  You must be possessed.
[00:56:28]  You've got a lot of gumption.
[00:56:33]  I thought for sure you'd come here, because I knew you when I was young and I said, this guy's got balls, he will confront.
[00:56:40]  And then you were sitting out there talking about confronting the devil, and now you're all afraid.
[00:56:44]  He's the only one out of dozens of people who came here.
[00:56:47]  He's the only one.
[00:56:48]  Are you going to let him play the whole thing?
[00:56:50]  Or are you going to tell him you can't play parts?
[00:56:51]  I say, I've stated my position.
[00:56:55]  You should.
[00:56:55]  You have the right.
[00:56:56]  Thank you, Bob.
[00:56:57]  I appreciate it.
[00:56:58]  Thanks for coming, Bob.