Danny Jones Podcast - #261 - Evolution Expert: Aliens are Future Humans & UFOs are Time Machines | Mike Masters
Aired: 2024-09-16
Duration: 03:10:21


=== Whitley Strieber Book on Shelf (02:31) ===

[00:00:07]  Over the last 48 hours, I read your entire book, The Extra Tempestrial Model.
[00:00:13]  Blew my mind.
[00:00:14]  Awesome.
[00:00:14]  I think it is, it makes so much sense.
[00:00:18]  And you do such a good job of laying out probably the most reasonable explanation I've ever heard to these alien abduction accounts and these UFO experiences that people have with beings.
[00:00:34]  Can you sort of just like lay out how you got into this whole thing and how you got interested in this?
[00:00:39]  Yeah, no, it was kind of a long and winding road to say the least.
[00:00:43]  It started similar to a lot of people's experience with the cover of Whitley Strieber's book, as you have displayed on your shelf.
[00:00:54]  It was sitting out just like that in the house I grew up in.
[00:00:58]  It was sitting on the living room shelf, faced out just like that.
[00:01:01]  Maybe as a conversational piece, I don't know.
[00:01:03]  Because my My biological father saw a UFO late at night with another individual.
[00:01:08]  He was a veterinarian in rural Ohio, kind of northeast Amish country.
[00:01:13]  And he described it as this ball of light.
[00:01:17]  It wasn't emitting rays, like you look at a street light and it's kind of got the rays coming out.
[00:01:22]  But he said him and this colleague crested a hill.
[00:01:25]  They could see it off in the distance, not too far, maybe five, 600 meters or so.
[00:01:30]  And then all of a sudden it shot toward their truck, hovered there above them for a little bit, shot back across the horizon, maybe another five or six seconds, and Straight up into the sky at tremendous speed.
[00:01:41]  And I overheard him telling this story to some friends at our house.
[00:01:44]  I was kind of sneaking downstairs late at night because there was stuff going on, and I was like an eight year old kid.
[00:01:49]  So I was curious what was happening.
[00:01:51]  It was right around that time that Whitley's book came out.
[00:01:54]  He got it, it was on the living room shelf.
[00:01:56]  And there were a number of things about that just hearing the account to start with like, A, it's Amish country.
[00:02:01]  There's no lights.
[00:02:02]  Amish don't use lights.
[00:02:05]  B, it's not moving like any conventional craft.
[00:02:08]  C, he's talking about UFOs.
[00:02:11]  Never heard of that.
[00:02:11]  That piqued my interest.
[00:02:13]  But even beyond that, when I walked into the living room and saw that book on the shelf, it sort of triggered this image in my head.
[00:02:22]  And I described this in both my first two books because it was the origin point for this little rabbit hole that I've spent my entire life going down pretty much, where I imagined or saw in my mind's eye an early hominin form, like a chimpanzee.

=== Modern Human Form in Middle (12:23) ===

[00:02:38]  In the middle was this modern human form.
[00:02:40]  I put it on a koozie too.
[00:02:43]  Quintessential alien, like on the cover of Whitley's book.
[00:02:48]  And obviously, that's kind of a cheeky character of what I saw, but it gets the point across and it got the point across to me.
[00:02:55]  That's all it took.
[00:02:57]  And I had this sort of awareness or this thought what if we're all related?
[00:03:01]  What if we look like we do because we came from this early primitive form?
[00:03:05]  And what if we go on to look like them in our future?
[00:03:08]  And it sort of shaped the rest of my life from that point.
[00:03:12]  I chose the majors I did.
[00:03:14]  In college to look into this further.
[00:03:16]  I did the research that I did as part of my graduate work and even after graduate school in my normal anthropological career, looking at craniofacial anatomy, human evolution, how the eye interacts with the brain and the face in a functional sense, in a biomedical sense, but also just how all of these things change together and what if we project that forward, these same dominant trends that characterize the last six to eight million years, project those forward, are we going to look like them?
[00:03:44]  And then it obviously went a lot further into other fields.
[00:03:47]  But that was sort of the impetus for it.
[00:03:49]  That's what got me started.
[00:03:51]  So, how long did you study biological anthropomorphism?
[00:03:55]  I don't know how to say it.
[00:03:56]  Yeah, biological anthropology.
[00:03:58]  It used to be called physical anthropology, which was way easier.
[00:04:00]  It's just anthropology.
[00:04:01]  Yeah, it's anthropology.
[00:04:02]  Biological anthropology.
[00:04:03]  Easy for you to say.
[00:04:05]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:05]  Well, physical was easier, but actually it was just about four or five years ago that we changed from the APAA to the ABAA, the American Biological.
[00:04:17]  Yeah, it's along.
[00:04:19]  It doesn't really matter.
[00:04:20]  But I don't know why we did that, honestly, because there's been physical anthropology for a century.
[00:04:25]  And all of a sudden we're the American Association of Biological Anthropologists, AABA.
[00:04:30]  Sorry, I screwed that up.
[00:04:31]  And how long did you study it for?
[00:04:33]  What kind of degree do you have in there?
[00:04:35]  I got a PhD.
[00:04:37]  I started out in physics and astronomy because I was interested in the are these time machines question.
[00:04:44]  And I was going to pursue that.
[00:04:46]  And then my sophomore year, I remember it vividly, I was standing behind Morton Halm, which is the physics and astronomy lecture hall.
[00:04:54]  The actual department was located elsewhere.
[00:04:57]  And yeah, I was just standing back there by myself.
[00:05:00]  And all of a sudden, it was like, you know, this.
[00:05:02]  Kind of drive to switch.
[00:05:06]  Like, what if we looked at the biological side?
[00:05:09]  What if we looked at the beans instead of the craft?
[00:05:12]  And from that point on, I switched my major.
[00:05:14]  And yeah, it's been great.
[00:05:16]  I've got to travel the world, work at archaeological sites, three and a half million year old site in Makapanskat, South Africa, for two seasons, Neanderthal site in Chapinot, Ajonzac, in the Bordeaux region of southern France.
[00:05:30]  And yeah, go all over the world and study skulls and.
[00:05:35]  It's been fun, even outside of this underlying question of could they be us?
[00:05:40]  Where are we going morphologically?
[00:05:41]  But it's just a really interesting field in general.
[00:05:44]  I find it fascinating.
[00:05:47]  To you, what is the most compelling evidence that these typical alien beings that we see, like for instance on the cover of Whitley's book, are us?
[00:05:56]  Well, I mean, perhaps I'm biased in the sense that this is what I've been looking at since I was.
[00:06:04]  Eight or nine, like I wasn't going and digging up bones and you know measuring them or anything back then, but I had sort of been thinking about this and obviously switched my med my major to study this.
[00:06:18]  And it was more about it's hard because we're at a place now where we say, Well, we have cockpit videos of the craft, we've acknowledged those.
[00:06:28]  There's still debates about what they might be you know, is it lens flare, some other seagulls.
[00:06:34]  Swamp gas has been a common one throughout history.
[00:06:38]  But the question of who's inside is still kind of on the fringe.
[00:06:43]  But to me, I don't see it that way.
[00:06:46]  I think, at least as far as what I've been looking at, that's the best evidence of future humans.
[00:06:54]  The craft themselves, and we could talk about this as well if you want, do seem to have a form consistent with the function of manipulating space time and creating closed time curves.
[00:07:03]  I do want to talk about that.
[00:07:05]  So there's a technological continuity aspect too.
[00:07:08]  But for me in my research, it's the extremely ubiquitous description of a humanoid form.
[00:07:17]  And I've said a million times, if what got out of these craft was an eight-legged squid spider type of creature, never would have got into this.
[00:07:27]  But they're so consistently described in very hominin terms.
[00:07:31]  Bilateral symmetry, two gut openings, eyes, nose, mouth in the same location, penodactyly having five digits at the end of each limb, four limbs in general, tetrapods going back 400 million years.
[00:07:43]  And then characteristics indicative of the continuation of long standing trends on this planet.
[00:07:49]  Going back six to eight million years ago, since we stood upright, bigger heads, larger eyes, smaller faces, less hair, thin bodies, less pigmentation to their skin.
[00:08:00]  Just this incredible suite of characteristics that seem to indicate that they're not just related to us phylogenetically, but they are part of the hominin clade and specifically toward the future of where we are now.
[00:08:13]  With that said, there is obviously variation.
[00:08:15]  There's a lot of variation in what people describe.
[00:08:18]  Yeah, some people describe four fingers.
[00:08:20]  Yeah.
[00:08:21]  Like Whitley, I think, said that.
[00:08:22]  Yeah.
[00:08:22]  And that could be very much an atrophy of our fifth digit.
[00:08:25]  The fifth phalanges just maybe shrinks down.
[00:08:28]  I don't know.
[00:08:28]  It's pretty small.
[00:08:29]  And us, maybe, I have a special small pinky toe.
[00:08:32]  My pinky toe is like almost not there.
[00:08:35]  It's so tiny.
[00:08:36]  It's like.
[00:08:37]  You're the future, man.
[00:08:38]  Yeah.
[00:08:38]  You got to get out there and be.
[00:08:40]  I could be like really small.
[00:08:41]  Yeah.
[00:08:42]  I'm saying I could be like maybe a hybrid or something.
[00:08:45]  Uh huh.
[00:08:45]  Well, I wouldn't doubt it.
[00:08:47]  Something to look into for sure.
[00:08:49]  And, you know, there are.
[00:08:52]  There's variation, not just in the physical form like we're talking about in us, but there's variation in what's described, what people see.
[00:09:01]  So I don't think this theory explains all of it, but I do think it explains the humanoid forms with the extenuation of traits indicative of our hominin past.
[00:09:14]  And I also point out I wasn't aware of this when I published my first book, unfortunately, but the Dr. Edgar Mitchell free study at the time surveyed something like 3,200 contactees.
[00:09:26]  And abductees as well.
[00:09:27]  So, individuals who have been on the ships.
[00:09:30]  And they asked them specifically if they had observed non human intelligence.
[00:09:35]  And they used that term, NHI, non human intelligence, which biases the question.
[00:09:40]  So, they should have used a different one, something more, something less leading, I guess you should say.
[00:09:46]  And it's hard with surveys, you know, because you're trying to get people to think about, well, what was it and put in those terms, and that's the common term.
[00:09:52]  But much like extraterrestrial, we should kind of pull back from that and use terminology that is less leading.
[00:09:59]  I. Them with Whitley.
[00:10:00]  I use visitor, traveler, things like that more recently to advocate for that as well.
[00:10:05]  So, anyway, what they found is individuals who were taken on these ships, the majority saw humans.
[00:10:12]  They described them as human, even though the question specifically asked non human intelligence.
[00:10:17]  So, just like us.
[00:10:19]  After that, the next most common was the short grays and then the tall grays and then hybrids rounded it out.
[00:10:25]  About 5% were non hominin forms, something like apparitions or these mantis type beings.
[00:10:31]  And I always point out too, with the mantids, If they have four limbs, there's still more in the hominin clade than they would be in an insect, which has six limbs.
[00:10:41]  So that's an important distinction, too.
[00:10:43]  But my point is that based on the definition of a hominin, an upright walking primate, we're in the primate order, we stand up on two limbs.
[00:10:54]  We're not only the only primate that does that, we're the only mammal on this planet that habitually walks on two limbs.
[00:11:00]  Right.
[00:11:00]  We're the only biped.
[00:11:01]  I think there's a compelling point in your book.
[00:11:04]  You mentioned that there are 2 million catalogued species.
[00:11:09]  On Earth, and 20 of them are hominids, and one of those 20 are upright walking hominids.
[00:11:17]  And it was like 0.001% are the upright walking hominids.
[00:11:24]  And then, like, we're the ones who generated the technology that could get off the planet.
[00:11:30]  Yeah, and even ask these questions.
[00:11:32]  So, just looking at how rare or how we don't know, it couldn't be non existent.
[00:11:37]  Life is in the universe apart from us, just how rare we are.
[00:11:42]  On this planet that is so packed with life.
[00:11:45]  Like, how would we know that life would be anything resembling what we are anywhere else in the world?
[00:11:51]  Especially if, you know, a lot of the other worlds that are out there in Goldilocks zones that are habitable for life are mostly water worlds.
[00:11:59]  Like, what would animals look like in water worlds?
[00:12:01]  Yeah.
[00:12:01]  Not like us.
[00:12:02]  No, that's a great point.
[00:12:04]  And there's so many other variables, too.
[00:12:05]  The distance from their sun.
[00:12:07]  Are they in a singular binary star system?
[00:12:11]  Are they nitrogen-based or carbon-based like we are?
[00:12:13]  Do they have anything even closely resembling DNA?
[00:12:17]  Like, what are the chances they would get a GCT and the same nucleotide linkages that we have that structures all life on this planet?
[00:12:26]  Some viruses have RNA, but they're not living because they need something else to replicate in a host.
[00:12:31]  But every other living organism on this planet, I'll get in trouble for that because some people think viruses are alive and I get a lot of hate mail.
[00:12:37]  Do they really?
[00:12:38]  Yeah.
[00:12:38]  That and free will.
[00:12:40]  If I say viruses aren't alive or they're not living organisms and I say something about free will, I get a lot of hate mail, but I'm used to it at this point.
[00:12:47]  Anyway, it's not just all of these other variables, whether they be celestial.
[00:12:52]  Do they have a moon?
[00:12:53]  Do they have a large planet like Jupiter that sucks up all of the asteroids that would hit them otherwise, like we do?
[00:12:58]  We're so fortunate here in our solar system.
[00:13:01]  But even outside of that, I did a study in 2016 looking at all of the planets that have been found as part of the Kepler mission.
[00:13:09]  And based on the stats of planetary size, their mass, only 2.2% of them were the same size or smaller than Earth.
[00:13:19]  I redid it in 2022 with new data.
[00:13:21]  We're up to over 5,000, pretty close to six or seven now, based on the planetary habitability study from the University of Puerto Rico, Arecibo, the one with the big dish that collapsed a couple years ago.
[00:13:33]  Right, right.
[00:13:34]  Yeah.
[00:13:34]  What was the story with that Arecibo?
[00:13:37]  It was a signal that we sent out.
[00:13:40]  Yeah.
[00:13:41]  I think it was in the 70s, maybe.
[00:13:43]  It was our first big broadcast.
[00:13:44]  There was some debate like, should we be broadcasting our existence here because we could bring in all of these evil.
[00:13:51]  Extraterrestrials that want to treat us like we treated people when we discovered other civilizations on this planet.
[00:13:56]  I think Hawking was one of the big proponents of that.
[00:14:00]  But the point of doing this study was to show, in concert with what Dr. Latimer, who used to be the director of the Cleveland Museum of Natural History, called the perils of being bipedal.
[00:14:13]  We suffer from all kinds of problems with our necks, our backs, difficulty in childbirth, blown out knees, hernias, varicose veins, hemorrhoids.
[00:14:22]  All of these problems we suffer from are the direct result of standing upright.
[00:14:27]  But the benefits that we get from standing upright outweigh the costs that come with bipedalism.
[00:14:33]  But it is rare here, like you said.
[00:14:35]  We're the only ones that do it habitually.
[00:14:38]  And if it's rare here, based on the fact that between two and four and a half percent of all other planets that we've identified so far, which is a decent sample, are much, much larger than Earth.
[00:14:52]  And it's hard to do here on our very small planet, relatively speaking, with only 9.8 meters per second squared of gravity, the acceleration pulling down on us.

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[00:15:01]  It's going to be very, very unlikely on any other planet based on the limited sample that we have.
[00:15:08]  But if we can extrapolate that out, it's not likely that you're going to get bipedalism on other planets.
[00:15:14]  So, even in addition to all these other factors that you'd mentioned, and I threw in some on top of, just the fact that they're bipedal, they're reported as being bipedal.
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[00:17:33]  Is the idea that gravity would be way stronger on those planets that are larger?
[00:17:36]  Yeah, it's all about mass.
[00:17:39]  Many of them are super Earths.
[00:17:41]  They're many thousands of times larger than Earth.
[00:17:45]  Some are close, but even a little bit of mass increase, even going to one point.
[00:17:52]  And I did in doing this study, I went up to 1.5 the mass of Earth, just to have a little cushion there, you know, saying, well, what if we went up 0.15 the size of Earth more, which is a little generous, I think, because bipedalism is almost non existent here.
[00:18:09]  But I did allow for that, and it was still only between 2 and 4%.
[00:18:14]  So you think that, I mean, obviously you've studied the evolution of our species extensively.
[00:18:24]  And you seem to think, you believe that if you go really way back millions of years ago to our early ancestors and where we are now, you can project out what we're going to look like in a million years and a couple hundred thousand years.
[00:18:39]  And you think that that would be what these aliens look like with huge eyes, big heads, no muscles.
[00:18:47]  Skinny, small bodies.
[00:18:49]  And what makes you think that we would look like that?
[00:18:52]  And what would be the environmental conditions that would make us evolve that way?
[00:18:56]  Right.
[00:18:56]  Well, yeah, there's a couple of things to unpack there.
[00:19:00]  And I don't want to get too technical.
[00:19:02]  Or maybe I can and people can just fast forward to this part.
[00:19:05]  But it's good to have it out there, I guess, and people want the information.
[00:19:09]  But so, in looking at the specifics of our evolution, okay?
[00:19:15]  But a lot of people would write to me and be like, yeah, this makes sense.
[00:19:19]  You know, well, We'll blow up this planet.
[00:19:20]  We'll have to live in space or go underground.
[00:19:22]  So that's why our eyes would get bigger because we have to, you know, see in the dark or whatever.
[00:19:27]  Maybe.
[00:19:27]  I don't know.
[00:19:28]  But that's speculation.
[00:19:30]  And I tried to avoid speculating in these books and instead focus on long term trends that are understandable in the context of the length of those trends and what happens.
[00:19:42]  And we might be able to extrapolate those a little bit.
[00:19:45]  And I do that.
[00:19:46]  But extrapolation isn't necessarily the same thing as speculation because we have data that can back up that trend and then see how that would move forward in the future.
[00:19:56]  So, a couple of important ones are obviously brain size.
[00:20:01]  Going back to the time of Australopithecus Africanus.
[00:20:04]  Right between when we stood upright and where we are now.
[00:20:06]  Their brains were bigger, right?
[00:20:07]  Much, much smaller.
[00:20:08]  Oh, really?
[00:20:09]  I thought they were bigger.
[00:20:10]  3.5 million years ago, they were a third the size of ours.
[00:20:13]  They were about 420 cubic centimeters.
[00:20:15]  On average, the modern human brain is between 1,400 and 1,600 cubic centimeters.
[00:20:20]  So about a third the size of our own, about the same size as a chimpanzee, a little bit bigger than a chimp.
[00:20:25]  It wasn't until we get beyond the Australopithecines, Homo habilis, you see a little jump.
[00:20:31]  And then with Homo erectus, throughout the time of Homo erectus, we started to see an accelerating curve.
[00:20:36]  Or it gets bigger and bigger.
[00:20:37]  By the time you get to Heidelbergensis, Rudolphensis, Budensis, all of those, it's getting to the point where they look more modern.
[00:20:45]  Their postcranial skeleton is almost the same as ours.
[00:20:47]  It's a little more robust based on where they lived and what they did, but their cranial facial anatomy is still pretty primitive.
[00:20:53]  They have a prognathic face, a low sloping forehead, big brow ridges, simply because their brain hasn't grown out over top the eyes yet.
[00:21:03]  And in addition to us being the only biped, we're also the only mammal with a brain that sits right on top of the eyes.
[00:21:11]  And it's interesting.
[00:21:12]  Yeah, it's something that I took this study of craniofacial evolution and applied it in a biomedical context to see if the two main changes throughout hominin evolution are an increase in brain size.
[00:21:26]  It moves forward and expands mediolaterally.
[00:21:28]  And one of the characteristics that defines anatomically modern Homo sapiens is we have neurocranial globularity.
[00:21:33]  Our brains expanded to the extent that we have like bobbleheads, basically, and our faces have shrunk back.
[00:21:39]  So we have this trade off between the brain and the face.
[00:21:42]  Grows out, expands, face gets smaller, teeth get smaller, and we have a chin.
[00:21:48]  As that happens, we have what's called a mental eminence where our teeth and our masticatory muscles retract and recess so much that we have a little chin that sticks out.
[00:21:59]  Right.
[00:21:59]  And this has a lot to do, from what I understand, this has a lot to do with the way we ate and our diets back then, like chewing meat all the time.
[00:22:07]  Yeah, and tool use too.
[00:22:08]  We started to be able to cut our meat, we could cook our meat, which was a big one.
[00:22:12]  Going back 1.8 million years ago, we started using fire.
[00:22:15]  And we can also Process our food.
[00:22:18]  We can cut into smaller strips.
[00:22:19]  We can cook it.
[00:22:20]  We can pound up fibrous plant materials.
[00:22:24]  There was an offshoot here.
[00:22:26]  If you pull out on that, the, where are they?
[00:22:31]  I guess they didn't include them on there.
[00:22:33]  Oh, they're there.
[00:22:34]  Boisei, Garhe, and Robustus, those ones in the middle there.
[00:22:38]  Those are all called Robust Australopithecines.
[00:22:42]  Can you punch in on that, Steve?
[00:22:43]  They did the opposite.
[00:22:45]  What they have, and you can even see on the Australopithecus Boisei, this little ridge.
[00:22:49]  Running from around the top.
[00:22:51]  That's called a sagittal crest.
[00:22:52]  You see that in gorillas too.
[00:22:54]  And gorillas are vegetarians.
[00:22:56]  They mostly feed on nettle and they have these big bellies because they have to break down that fibrous plant material.
[00:23:01]  They have to spend a lot of time chewing it.
[00:23:03]  And these guys went that route.
[00:23:04]  They went the vegetarian route like gorillas.
[00:23:07]  We went the omnivore route, started eating meat, and that helped our brains get bigger.
[00:23:11]  And likely we killed them off, maybe even ate them.
[00:23:14]  The meat made our brains get bigger?
[00:23:16]  Yeah.
[00:23:16]  It's called the expensive tissue hypothesis, where because of the way we can break down The meat, the proteins in meat, and turn it into the sugars that we need for our brain.
[00:23:26]  We see not just a decrease in our gastrointestinal system around this time, but also that's when our brains started to get bigger.
[00:23:32]  So, Leslie Aiello in South Africa proposed that, I think back in the 90s, called it the expensive tissue hypothesis.
[00:23:39]  But you can see it here.
[00:23:40]  Like they were a dead end.
[00:23:41]  They have no living descendants.
[00:23:44]  Who?
[00:23:45]  The robust australopithecine.
[00:23:47]  Boisei, Robustus, and Garhe up just to the top right of that.
[00:23:51]  I'm getting off track a little bit.
[00:23:52]  No, this is interesting.
[00:23:53]  I love this stuff.
[00:23:54]  So, what was the explanation for that?
[00:23:57]  Thing across the top of their head, that grape heart.
[00:23:58]  Chewing.
[00:23:59]  Yeah.
[00:23:59]  So they have these big, massive faces, and you can see it just looking between Robustus there and Africanus to the right.
[00:24:06]  Robustus was a dead end.
[00:24:07]  They went veggie.
[00:24:09]  Their faces got huge, but their brain couldn't get any bigger because it was all face.
[00:24:14]  We went the opposite direction.
[00:24:15]  Africanus, Afarensis, all of the Homo that came after that, we were able to shrink our faces back, especially with Homo erectus.
[00:24:23]  That's why we see this accelerating trend, what we call biocultural evolution, because we started using tools, we started using fire.
[00:24:31]  That allowed our face to get out of the way of our brain.
[00:24:34]  Because the brain grows first and it leaves less time and space for the face to grow out.
[00:24:42]  It's just an aspect of the modularity, the way the different parts of our craniofacial anatomy grow.
[00:24:47]  But when we needed a face, when we were constantly chewing on fibrous plant material, the face had to be there.
[00:24:53]  There was selection for that.
[00:24:54]  Once we relax that selective pressure, teeth get smaller, masticatory muscles get smaller.
[00:24:59]  Our temporalis muscles are the ones that would come up and attach to that sagittal crest.
[00:25:03]  And the robust esterolopithecines.
[00:25:06]  Now they attach right here.
[00:25:07]  They're all the way down here.
[00:25:09]  We have very thin skulls.
[00:25:10]  Our brain can grow out over our eyes.
[00:25:12]  And like I started to say earlier, one of the things I look at in a biomedical sense is how that impacts vision.
[00:25:19]  If juvenile onset myopia, astigmatism, which what you see with a highly myopic eye is it's elongated.
[00:25:28]  Myopic meaning short term distance.
[00:25:31]  Yeah, we call it farsighted, but you can't see things at a distance.
[00:25:35]  Nearsighted, it's sort of weird how they phrased it.
[00:25:38]  We say nearsighted, but you can't see things at a distance.
[00:25:41]  I'm very nearsighted, like negative five diopters.
[00:25:44]  But what happens is the eye is expanded, or not mediolaterally, but from front to back.
[00:25:50]  And what it does is it changes the focal length where the image focuses in front of the retina instead of on the retina.
[00:25:58]  And what I proposed in a paper, I think in 2012, is that that may just be a function of our massive brains growing out over top of the eyes and our faces shrinking back underneath them.
[00:26:08]  And the eye becomes sandwiched in between.
[00:26:11]  And the only place for it to go is out.
[00:26:13]  It can't go up because the brain's there.
[00:26:14]  It can't go down because the face is there.
[00:26:16]  So it's being squeezed almost like a tennis ball.
[00:26:19]  If you squeeze it from top to bottom, it has the same shape as a myopic eye.
[00:26:23]  So I proposed that in 2012, and it's gotten some traction.
[00:26:27]  In any case, sorry, I went down a little rabbit hole.
[00:26:30]  So where does that go, though, if you extrapolate out into the future?
[00:26:34]  Right.
[00:26:34]  And that's why it's extrapolation and not speculation, because this is a six to potentially eight million year old trend.
[00:26:41]  This has been happening regardless of where we lived on this planet, what our political system, group size, economic system was like.
[00:26:48]  This has just happened.
[00:26:49]  Right.
[00:26:50]  So, if you project that into the future, and it is an acceleration, and this doesn't even take into account how they might be manipulating us in some way.
[00:26:58]  We could get into the hybrid program if you want to.
[00:27:01]  This is just strictly what's been happening over the course of the entirety of hominin evolution.
[00:27:08]  To add another little side angle here, I also, and there's some images in that second book where I show.
[00:27:16]  Based on some geometric morphometric analyses I did, how the shape of our skulls is likely to change with another dominant trend called craniofacial feminization, which is where we're basically, our skull shape is turning more female.
[00:27:33]  And what happens there, this is largely as a result of self domestication.
[00:27:36]  We've been domesticating ourselves for about the last 30,000 years.
[00:27:40]  Can you explain that?
[00:27:40]  What does that mean, domesticating ourselves?
[00:27:42]  Well, in the same way that we see morphological changes in cows and sheep and foxes, was one of the first studies that we see.
[00:27:48]  Steve, it's called cranial.
[00:27:50]  Facial feminization, cranial facial.
[00:27:54]  So, in the same way that when we domesticate foxes, very quickly they go from having pointy ears to saggy ears, and from a tail that comes up to a tail that comes down as a little curve.
[00:28:06]  They start barking.
[00:28:07]  They do all these things that we see in domesticated dogs.
[00:28:10]  Similar things happen to us.
[00:28:11]  There's this suite of characteristics that change in us simply because we've been domesticating ourselves.
[00:28:17]  With agriculture, about 12,000 years ago, that ramped up tremendously.
[00:28:22]  We started to Be more domesticated.
[00:28:24]  And a lot of the reason for it is because we're selecting for what are called pro social behaviors.
[00:28:30]  When we were hunter gatherers, if somebody pissed us off, we would just leave and go somewhere else.
[00:28:35]  We'd take our clan and we'd move to a different area.
[00:28:37]  As space fills up, it gets harder to do that.
[00:28:40]  One of the main reasons space fills up is because of agriculture.
[00:28:43]  People just don't have the ability to move.
[00:28:45]  And why would you?
[00:28:46]  If you spend all of this time tending to the soil and weeding and removing bugs from your fields, you're going to stay there, you're going to reap what you sow.
[00:28:55]  So, we stay in the same place.
[00:28:57]  We're forced to get along with people.
[00:28:59]  And what that does is it creates for more pro social behaviors.
[00:29:02]  We get along and that exacerbates these trends toward craniofacial feminization.
[00:29:08]  So, what I did, and again, sorry if this is getting too technical, but I did a geometric morphometric analysis, which factors out size.
[00:29:16]  So, we can just look at the shape of a male and female skull.
[00:29:20]  And so, I projected what the extreme female shape would be.
[00:29:24]  So, if this trend continued, If this craniofacial feminization trend continued, what would the male, what would all of our skulls look like?

=== Extreme Female Skull Shape Analysis (02:38) ===

[00:29:33]  Right.
[00:29:34]  And what was really interesting about it is it looked just like one of these gray aliens.
[00:29:39]  You had a forehead that was higher, you had a more forward brain, and you had even more mediolateral expansion of the parietal lobes in the back.
[00:29:48]  And if you look at these classic images or even like Skinny Bob or any of these videos where they depict these things, they have that big round area back here.
[00:29:56]  And the parietal lobes are actually what has been expanding the most throughout the last.
[00:30:00]  You know, 200, 300,000 years.
[00:30:04]  So it doesn't say this is what is going to happen, but it shows if this trend continues.
[00:30:10]  So, wait, if my parietal lobe is expanding, does that explain why I get so excited for public wreck?
[00:30:16]  Smart humans can't resist the allure of public wreck fabrics.
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[00:30:25]  My favorite are the Daymaker pants.
[00:30:26]  It's the comfort of sweatpants, except nobody knows it.
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[00:30:34]  And they're perfect for golfing, flexible enough to give me a few more yards off the tee box.
[00:30:38]  When Danny's out golfing, I have to jump into the bushes and collect his balls.
[00:30:44]  Now I know why he laughs while I struggle and sweat in my primitive jeans.
[00:30:48]  It's because his Daymaker pants are so comfy that he doesn't have to go without pants anymore.
[00:30:52]  Public Rec has finally allowed me to enjoy pants in my life.
[00:30:55]  It's soft and stretchy, and I use them for jogging, traveling, and podcasting.
[00:31:00]  The stretch on these pants are elite.
[00:31:02]  When Danny wrestles people on the street who don't like the show, He does so knowing that all that twisting and squeezing won't crush his family jewels.
[00:31:08]  It's almost like they came from the future to speed up our evolution by changing our flexibility.
[00:31:13]  Maybe it's so we can run away from the invaders faster.
[00:31:16]  Or maybe they realize that pants should just fit you, no matter if you gain or lose a little around the waist.
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[00:31:52]  Now back to the show.
[00:31:53]  We would have more of these characteristics consistent with that of these gray aliens.
[00:32:01]  Another interesting thing, too, and I show this in a video at lectures sometimes, because I did a video of how we go from extreme male to extreme female, is that the orbits go up and around.

=== Larger Wraparound Eyes Trend (07:27) ===

[00:32:12]  And that's what people so often describe in these cases of close contact, that the eyes are bigger.
[00:32:17]  And that would likely be another rabbit hole, just very technical.
[00:32:20]  That'll give you maybe a brief description.
[00:32:22]  Yeah, I want to go down that one.
[00:32:24]  But the eyes are described as being larger and wraparound.
[00:32:27]  Okay.
[00:32:27]  That they come up and around.
[00:32:28]  And you can see that in this animation from this geometric morphometric analysis going from extreme male to extreme female.
[00:32:36]  Is this something we can find online?
[00:32:37]  No.
[00:32:38]  I have it.
[00:32:38]  I could send it to you if you want to add it in later.
[00:32:41]  Just type in, let's pull up the picture of Whitley's Alien on the communion.
[00:32:45]  That's a great example of the wraparound eyes, I think.
[00:32:48]  Yeah, and it's classic.
[00:32:49]  Every single person describes it.
[00:32:51]  And they're these haunting eyes.
[00:32:52]  Like you see, The windows are the eyes to the soul, and it's like they're mesmerized by the soul of these highly intelligent, highly conscious, empathetic creatures, and it just sucks people in.
[00:33:04]  Some people can't even look at them because it's too intense.
[00:33:06]  Have you ever gotten your eyes dilated at the eye doctor?
[00:33:08]  Yeah, sometimes I don't even need them to, I just want them to do it.
[00:33:11]  I'll go home and just like stare at my children, and they can't look at me because it just freaks them out too much, you know?
[00:33:17]  Really, yeah, and they don't know.
[00:33:18]  So I have sunglasses on, I'll scope and start screaming.
[00:33:23]  Um, because yeah, it's freaky.
[00:33:24]  You know, even like someone on acid, they're or Adderall.
[00:33:27]  I've seen people come in, like, I've talked to people like people's pupils jacked on Adderall, and those are just normal sized eyes.
[00:33:32]  Those are modern human eyes.
[00:33:34]  We're talking about, you know, these great aliens with these massive pupils already, even bigger.
[00:33:39]  People really struggle to look in those.
[00:33:41]  It's crazy.
[00:33:42]  So, okay, you explained earlier, though, like how the brain would grow forward and take up all this space and like crush the eyes.
[00:33:52]  But then, how do you explain the eyes getting huge and wrapping around like that?
[00:33:57]  Yeah, no, that's a great question.
[00:34:00]  The main thing, and I pointed this out in that 2012 medical hypotheses paper too.
[00:34:09]  One of the main reasons why the eye would grow larger is because our brains have grown larger throughout hominin evolution.
[00:34:18]  And the eye is part of the brain.
[00:34:19]  The eye is part of the brain, yeah.
[00:34:20]  So it grows out of the telencephalon of the brain, the forebrain, basically, during early fetal ontogeny.
[00:34:27]  So it is part of the brain, it grows out from the brain.
[00:34:30]  And more importantly, they appear to be linked because of something called pleiotropy, where you can have the same gene or set of genes controlling seemingly different anatomical parts.
[00:34:42]  So we see the eye and brain as being different, but because it grows out of the brain and it's governed by the same genes, it is essentially the same thing.
[00:34:52]  So as the brain gets larger, we would also expect the eye to get larger.
[00:34:57]  And then, yeah, couple that with the.
[00:34:59]  And again, this isn't.
[00:35:01]  Necessarily going to happen.
[00:35:02]  It's just a model based on this dominant trend of craniofacial feminization over the last 30,000 years.
[00:35:08]  But couple that with the fact that we do see this expansion and posterior rotation of the upper part of the eye orbits, I find to be really interesting.
[00:35:19]  Yeah, it makes so much sense.
[00:35:24]  There's a bunch of other compelling reasons for these creatures to be time travelers.
[00:35:30]  But to me, another interesting thing was how there's the SETI researchers who say there's no evidence of like traffic or superhighways of any kind of ships or any kind of.
[00:35:40]  Crafts coming in and out of our atmosphere.
[00:35:43]  There's nothing going on in space.
[00:35:44]  It's super quiet, but there's all these electromagnetic anomalies that are happening around the world, and especially in the places where a lot of these experiences or a lot of these sightings of UFOs have happened.
[00:35:58]  How do you explain the electromagnetic anomalies?
[00:36:01]  Yeah.
[00:36:02]  Before we get into that, I forgot one key bit of evidence related to the morphological thing.
[00:36:08]  So for the people fast forwarding through this, just hit.
[00:36:11]  I promise you they're not 40.
[00:36:14]  You might miss an ad.
[00:36:15]  You might miss an ad.
[00:36:16]  So stay with us.
[00:36:17]  But I did just want to bookend this with one other thing that I think is pretty compelling, which is also technical.
[00:36:23]  So I want to just squish them together before we move on.
[00:36:26]  And that's called paedomorphosis, which is an aspect of neoteny.
[00:36:29]  It's a very common thing in evolutionary biology where, as an adult, you have characteristics more indicative of the juveniles of your ancestors.
[00:36:41]  So let me say that another way.
[00:36:46]  When you have the descendants of, say, group A, when they've reached full maturity, when they've finished ontogeny, as we call it, life history cycle, they look more like the kids of their ancestors.
[00:37:00]  So that is interesting to me because it's yet another, I would argue, line of evidence to suggest that they are us, because that's a trend that also characterizes hominin evolution that we look more like the kids of our ancestors.
[00:37:15]  And That is also described in a number of cases of close encounters.
[00:37:20]  You have Terry Lovelace turning into his friend Toby, saying, What are those kids doing out there in the field under this craft?
[00:37:26]  I mentioned Travis Walton often too, where he described them as overgrown fetuses.
[00:37:31]  That's exactly what we'd expect to see because of this other evolutionary trend.
[00:37:36]  So there's just so many little things characteristic of our morphological evolution, pedomorphosis being another one of those.
[00:37:43]  You can see it really well with dogs.
[00:37:45]  I make the comparison in my first book with dogs.
[00:37:47]  Is there an example in nature we can think of of pedomorphosis?
[00:37:52]  Yeah, if you pulled up, oh, that's actually in my book, the one with the two chimps there.
[00:37:56]  On the bottom right.
[00:37:57]  Bottom right.
[00:37:57]  Yeah.
[00:37:57]  So if you look at the baby chimp, it has a larger, more projecting forehead, smaller, more recessed and retracted mid and lower facial anatomy.
[00:38:07]  But as an adult, once it reaches full maturity, its face is all the way shrunk down.
[00:38:12]  It's got the low sloping forehead and the brow ridge.
[00:38:16]  So that's just another example over a long period since we split with.
[00:38:19]  Them since the bifurcation of the chimp line and the modern human line.
[00:38:22]  We look much more like baby chimps.
[00:38:24]  Yeah.
[00:38:24]  They look like, I think I said in my book, they look like somebody's hairy grandma or something.
[00:38:29]  But that's another important one, too.
[00:38:31]  And especially because, and honestly, in Steven Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind, he sort of threw a little bone to people when these childlike beings come out of the craft and it lands on the top of Devil's Tower.
[00:38:46]  There's the World War II pilots who hadn't aged before.
[00:38:48]  They don't age, right?
[00:38:49]  They don't age.
[00:38:50]  That's a little shout out to time travel, right there.
[00:38:53]  But they're very Kid like.
[00:38:54]  They're small.
[00:38:55]  They're very, you know, petite, childlike.
[00:38:57]  And we do this.
[00:38:58]  Spielberg and his genius did this intentionally.
[00:39:01]  That's what he did with E.T. to make an alien that was cute and cuddly that Drew Barrymore would want to give Reese's pieces to and hide in their closet with their other stuffed animals that we also make to be more pedomorphic and lovable.
[00:39:13]  It's something called Kinden Shima that this guy Lorenz, I think he was Austrian, first wrote about in the 40s and 50s.
[00:39:21]  It's what Walt Disney used to launch his franchise.
[00:39:24]  Mickey Mouse used to just be a little mouse.
[00:39:27]  After this study, he realized if I make Mickey Mouse look cute and pedomorphic, People are going to like them.
[00:39:32]  Why they did this with all their Disney characters, and it's a big part of why Disney was so successful.
[00:39:36]  Gave them the big ears, oversized hands, and feet, big eyes.

=== Disney Characters and Cute Features (08:40) ===

[00:39:40]  It's why you'll see cheetahs raising gazelles because they see this little baby, they chase off the mom, they don't want to eat it because it's cute, and they end up raising it as their own.
[00:39:49]  It's this drive that we have to take care of cute things, it's just innate within us.
[00:39:54]  And all mammals, apparently, we all do it because it's cute.
[00:39:57]  You just want to take care of it.
[00:39:58]  I had a little baby fawn come into my yard about a month and a half ago, it was all cut up.
[00:40:03]  Coyote got it.
[00:40:05]  And, you know, I'm patching it up, wiping off its wounds and stuff.
[00:40:08]  And it's just, they're adorable.
[00:40:10]  You can't not take care of them, you know?
[00:40:12]  Right.
[00:40:13]  It's just this intuitive, sort of ingrained aspect of our physiology.
[00:40:17]  But it's all related to that pedomorphosis.
[00:40:20]  Yes.
[00:40:20]  We want to have cute babies.
[00:40:22]  So when they're crying and they're pissing us off, we don't just throw them out the window.
[00:40:25]  Right.
[00:40:25]  Exactly.
[00:40:26]  Yes.
[00:40:26]  Yeah.
[00:40:26]  That makes a lot of sense.
[00:40:30]  Okay.
[00:40:30]  So let me see if I got this right.
[00:40:33]  The way, my takeaway from this whole thing, and I think the way you summed it up towards the end of the book, Is that we have tons of evidence of UFOs around schools showing themselves to children and then around like military bases activating and deactivating nukes.
[00:40:52]  These children have, they get these telepathic communications about saving the planet, about nuclear destruction.
[00:40:59]  You had the one lady who was brought to like a hilltop where they showed a bunch of like rockets and stuff like that.
[00:41:03]  And they said, We're not going to make you forget this or make sure you don't forget this.
[00:41:08]  It seems like whatever this.
[00:41:11]  Phenomena that's happening that people are experiencing is there's a very unique correlation between all of them where it's like, save, keep the planet safe from destruction and don't kill, don't annihilate the planet, right?
[00:41:28]  And save, don't kill other species, even.
[00:41:32]  And some of them talk about, like, even like, I forget who is it.
[00:41:36]  I think Chris Bledsoe was in here saying they had an experience where they were like, don't kill other animals or anything like that.
[00:41:40]  Yeah.
[00:41:42]  But it's like preservation of the planet and the species, it seems like.
[00:41:45]  And if this was an extraterrestrial race coming to our planet, it wouldn't make a lot of sense that they would care.
[00:41:52]  Why would they care that we preserve ourselves?
[00:41:55]  But if it was a future human race, you would see how they would be very invested in preaching that message to us to protect the planet.
[00:42:05]  And I've talked about this ad nauseum, but I had a lady on here recently, Andy Jacobson, who wrote a book called Nuclear War.
[00:42:12]  And she talks about after the nuclear war, after the nuclear winter.
[00:42:16]  You know, 90, you know, 80 90% of the human race will be wiped out, and the people who do live will have to live underground because there will be it'll be blacked out, it'll be just plague infesting the earth.
[00:42:27]  And then when the atmosphere or when the clouds, the nuclear ash finally clears, there will be no atmosphere, and exposure to the ultraviolet radiation from the sun for even like five minutes will just kill you.
[00:42:42]  That combined with like the rotting corpses that have been.
[00:42:46]  Outside for decades, for seven, I think she said like seven to 14 years before it clears up, those frozen corpses will now be like getting baked by the sun, causing even more plague and disease and like nasty shit.
[00:43:01]  So, no one would want to be outside.
[00:43:02]  You'd want to be living underground.
[00:43:05]  And people would be forced to breed with each other and it would be incest.
[00:43:12]  So, we would lose the genetic diversity that we have now on Earth.
[00:43:16]  And if that happened far in the future, it would make sense that we would want to travel back in time and diversify our species by breeding with them.
[00:43:27]  Yeah.
[00:43:28]  That's basically, I mean, that seems like it makes.
[00:43:31]  A lot of sense.
[00:43:32]  Yeah.
[00:43:33]  Yet another compelling little morsel to chew on.
[00:43:39]  Actually, not a delicious morsel.
[00:43:41]  That sounds horrible.
[00:43:42]  All of that sounds nightmarish.
[00:43:43]  But yeah.
[00:43:45]  And you couple that with how commonly, like you said, experiencers speak of something coming, some sort of cataclysm, something transformational, earth shattering, whether that be a shift in consciousness, a sort of mass awakening, or something that.
[00:44:02]  Really has to spur that into existence, sort of the dark night of the soul in a novel where you hit rock bottom and everything's bad, but then you emerge from it with this new insight and this new way of perceiving not just what's happening now, but who you were before.
[00:44:18]  Maybe we look back on humanity and say, well, yeah, that was dumb.
[00:44:21]  What were we doing?
[00:44:22]  You know, in so many capacities war, just overuse of fossil fuels, overconsumption.
[00:44:27]  There's so many things.
[00:44:29]  But yeah, in a biological sense, what would that do to our genome?
[00:44:33]  What would that do to our genetic diversity?
[00:44:36]  And In my first book, I mention the case of Jim Peniston, who completely independently, and in fact, I only learned of his account or his interaction at Randlesham maybe a month or two before my first book came out.
[00:44:52]  But he specifically remembers being told that they were having problems with reproduction in the future and they're coming back to get genetic material to help diversify their gene pool.
[00:45:02]  I had already written a whole section about that in my first book, just based on past trends.
[00:45:07]  And how previously we used to have gene flow between isolated populations, interbreeding groups.
[00:45:12]  And you do have incest on islands and all kinds of weird stuff happens.
[00:45:16]  But if you interject new genes into that population, you can get around that problem.
[00:45:20]  So, what we do with panda bears and gorillas at zoos, we're constantly switching them around and switching up, adding new genetic variation to help diversify those gene pools.
[00:45:29]  So, I argued that maybe that's what they're doing too.
[00:45:32]  Even outside of any sort of cataclysm or bottleneck, as we call it.
[00:45:37]  In genetics.
[00:45:39]  But in addition to that, in my second book, I also list a number of other things that could help account for why it's so ubiquitous that they do come back and get genetic material sperm from males, eggs from females.
[00:45:54]  Many cases, that woman, Terry, that John Mack interviewed as one of his patients, who was the one talking about being shown the missiles and the war scenarios, she was also subjected to.
[00:46:07]  A number of pregnancies, fetuses being implanted, extracted, implanted, extracted.
[00:46:12]  Linda Jones was another one also in that book.
[00:46:15]  So, what are they doing?
[00:46:15]  Why are they doing this?
[00:46:17]  It's one of the most common features of these abductions.
[00:46:21]  So, even outside of this potential homogenization of our gene pool or interbreeding incest that happens after a bottleneck, like what does homogenization mean again?
[00:46:32]  Just all the same.
[00:46:33]  Got it.
[00:46:34]  And that's where the incest comes from because all your genes start to have what we call alleles identical by descent.
[00:46:39]  They're not similar, they're the same.
[00:46:41]  Because you got the same ancestors.
[00:46:43]  Right.
[00:46:45]  So even outside of that, we see problems with the reduction in sperm count, for instance, in males.
[00:46:51]  50% in, I think it's actually 60% in the Western world, 50% globally, reduction in sperm counts.
[00:46:58]  Women are having a harder time giving birth.
[00:47:01]  In vitro fertilization, which is great for helping individuals, also helps their genes, which weren't ideal for reproduction on their own, to get into future populations.
[00:47:12]  So you're taking genes that would otherwise be selected against and allowing them to propagate through the future.
[00:47:19]  There's also the risk that we run if we start to manipulate our own DNA.
[00:47:22]  And I listed a number of cases in my second book where we've already run into problems because if you start modifying even somatic cells, you're trying to help.
[00:47:32]  With some congenital disease, so someone's not affected.
[00:47:37]  But if those modifications get into our heritable genome, to our gametes, not just our somatic cells, like you can cut off your arm, go make a baby, your baby's going to come out with two arms.
[00:47:50]  Right.
[00:47:50]  Because that's your somatic cells.
[00:47:51]  Right.
[00:47:51]  Got it.
[00:47:52]  If you stand in front of a microwave or dip your testicles in toxic sludge every day for years, that's going to affect your babies, you know?
[00:48:01]  So, seemingly, if we do things to try to help alleviate problems, genetics, Conditions and that modifies our heritable traits, who knows what's going to happen?
[00:48:12]  So, that could contribute to different problems.
[00:48:15]  Designer babies would be a big one because we are actually changing the way those genes are expressed.

=== Betty Hill Star Map Evidence (06:20) ===

[00:48:20]  Are we doing it?
[00:48:21]  People are having designer babies?
[00:48:22]  Yeah.
[00:48:23]  Okay.
[00:48:23]  No, I believe it's still illegal.
[00:48:25]  But it seems like it'll start with trying to cure disease.
[00:48:29]  Even that could cause these same problems.
[00:48:32]  It's a good idea.
[00:48:35]  It may have negative latent outcomes that we can't account for.
[00:48:39]  I'm just saying there's a lot of things that we can do now.
[00:48:41]  That goes outside of just the fact that we live in one island of earth, an incestuous island of earth, that we are homogenized in our genome because of our culture, which we've always used to help our biology.
[00:48:55]  It could actually hurt.
[00:48:56]  Anyway, there's just a lot of reasons why they might want to come back and get our genes.
[00:49:02]  So, yeah, what's going on with that?
[00:49:04]  If we start looking at the hybridization program, if we take that seriously, that adds a number of other questions.
[00:49:12]  You have people like Whitley Strieber, Terry Lovelace, who describe seeing.
[00:49:16]  These different forms all working together on the same ship, some of whom are in modern military uniforms.
[00:49:23]  Are we already working with them?
[00:49:24]  Are we aware of what they're doing?
[00:49:26]  Was there some sort of contract that was made that Grush pointed out and a number of others have as well?
[00:49:30]  How many abduction cases have you read through personally?
[00:49:33]  God, I don't know.
[00:49:34]  Thousands?
[00:49:37]  Well, we know John Mack did what?
[00:49:39]  How many?
[00:49:40]  How many?
[00:49:41]  There's probably about 20.
[00:49:45]  Well, he wrote about.
[00:49:49]  Probably 15 or 20 in abduction, but he references others.
[00:49:53]  He interviewed, I think he interviewed over a thousand, right?
[00:49:56]  I can't tell you the exact number, but it was a lot.
[00:49:58]  What percentage of them say they're future humans, and what percentage of them tell the people that they're aliens from another galaxy?
[00:50:06]  That's a great question.
[00:50:08]  Honestly, I would feel a little disingenuous giving an answer because I haven't really sat down and crunched those numbers.
[00:50:16]  But this is split, there is a split.
[00:50:18]  Yeah.
[00:50:18]  Oh, yeah.
[00:50:19]  A lot of them are told they're future humans.
[00:50:20]  Absolutely.
[00:50:21]  And why do you think that some of them would say they're from like Zeta Reticuli or some other like star system?
[00:50:27]  Well, this would actually be a great study for a graduate student, especially with all of the supercomputing capabilities we have.
[00:50:34]  And if we can enter all of these cases into a database that's searchable, you could easily answer that question.
[00:50:40]  And it would also be interesting, and this would be a hypothesis that you could test is there a temporal relationship there?
[00:50:47]  Are there more that are told they're from outer space farther into the past?
[00:50:52]  Because we didn't think about time.
[00:50:54]  And it's probably easier for them with some farmer from South Dakota to say, oh, we're from that star.
[00:51:00]  Which star?
[00:51:01]  Oh, that one up there.
[00:51:01]  Don't worry about it.
[00:51:02]  Well, Barney Hill, Betty and Barney Bill was in the 70s.
[00:51:05]  Yeah.
[00:51:05]  Early 70s.
[00:51:08]  And we have, there's accounts of them telling 60s, I think.
[00:51:12]  Abductees that they're future humans.
[00:51:14]  Oh, in the 60s, early 60s.
[00:51:15]  Okay.
[00:51:16]  I'm not exactly sure, but I know it was the 60s.
[00:51:18]  I think it was early 60s.
[00:51:20]  Yeah, a database of all these things with like all, like a breakdown of all the communication and all the experience would be great.
[00:51:26]  I had this dude, Sam.
[00:51:30]  I'll text this to you, Steve.
[00:51:32]  Oh, well, that's weird.
[00:51:32]  He just texted me.
[00:51:34]  That is weird.
[00:51:34]  Pull this up.
[00:51:35]  TheUFOTimeline.com.
[00:51:39]  Okay.
[00:51:41]  The UFO Timeline.
[00:51:42]  So, Sam put together this incredible database with like amazing graphics and visuals of every UFO sighting.
[00:51:51]  And I think it's like any UFO encounter in history, but it like includes abductions.
[00:51:59]  I don't know how DP goes into the details of the abductions.
[00:52:03]  Interactive map.
[00:52:04]  Yeah, there you go.
[00:52:04]  No, no, go to the timeline.
[00:52:05]  Timeline.
[00:52:06]  There you go.
[00:52:07]  So, this hypothesis I'm proposing.
[00:52:09]  Interactive map on the right.
[00:52:12]  I'm in.
[00:52:13]  Interactive map.
[00:52:14]  One more.
[00:52:14]  That says timeline.
[00:52:16]  Oh, shit.
[00:52:18]  God.
[00:52:18]  No, that's not it.
[00:52:20]  Click on early access.
[00:52:21]  Don't let you do anything.
[00:52:24]  Oh, son of a bitch.
[00:52:25]  Maybe this is just like a.
[00:52:26]  He sent it to me.
[00:52:28]  Whatever.
[00:52:29]  Go to the Twitter link I sent you.
[00:52:30]  It'll show you a.
[00:52:33]  It'll show you a little demonstration of it and what it looks like.
[00:52:37]  Wow, that is so awesome.
[00:52:38]  Yeah, that's it.
[00:52:39]  Yeah, okay.
[00:52:41]  So, yeah, so you can like scroll through.
[00:52:43]  That's the timeline on the top.
[00:52:45]  It shows you like the year that everything happens.
[00:52:48]  Shows you like, look at, he has like a breakdown of craft type, shape, entity type.
[00:52:53]  Yeah, this is exactly what we need.
[00:52:56]  This is insane.
[00:52:57]  He's been working on this for years.
[00:52:58]  If you could have the details of each of these cases, the hypothesis I'm proposing is that in more recent time, we have more of them saying, We're from your future.
[00:53:07]  Whereas farther back, they say, or like Betty Hill, where she was supposedly shown the star map.
[00:53:13]  This woman, I think Fisher was her last name, tried to even reconstruct it.
[00:53:17]  Carl Sagan and other astrophysicists look at it, eventually rejected it because it didn't fit.
[00:53:22]  And it's data mining.
[00:53:23]  Of course, if you throw five or six stars up there, you're going to find something that matches it.
[00:53:28]  It's like monkeys on typewriters are eventually going to type out Shakespeare's works.
[00:53:32]  Yeah.
[00:53:32]  So she tried to, she claimed that they showed her some sort of 3D star map that had like 12 stars in it, and they tried to.
[00:53:38]  Put her in a trance and put her in a flow state to figure out what it looked like.
[00:53:41]  Exactly.
[00:53:42]  And what's interesting, there's this guy, Michael Swords, who wrote this critique against this time travel theory back in the 80s and 90s, actually made more of a case for it than he did against it.
[00:53:53]  And I talk about him a lot in my second book as well.
[00:53:56]  But he was like, You can't argue that the time travel theory is real without also accounting for Betty Hill and her star map, because that proves that they're from outer space.
[00:54:04]  I'm like, Bro, that's one data point.
[00:54:06]  You know, I have much respect for this guy, tons of respect.
[00:54:08]  But that's one data point.
[00:54:09]  You also can't base All of your arguments against a theory on one singular data point that eventually was gone on to be shown it wasn't true.
[00:54:19]  And even more interestingly, the video I just sent you to send to Steve shows Betty Hill holding this 3D model of the being that she interacted with that she took to biological anthropologists who told her, Oh, that's what we're going to look like in your future.
[00:54:33]  Betty Hill's team time travel.
[00:54:36]  A lot of people don't realize that.
[00:54:37]  They get off at the star map and they're like, Oh, she must think that they're extraterrestrial.

=== Factor Meals and Healthy Routine (02:29) ===

[00:54:41]  They told her they were.
[00:54:42]  She's team time travel now.
[00:54:44]  Really?
[00:54:45]  Yeah.
[00:54:45]  I mean, I think she's dead, but toward the end of her life, she was squarely on the side because she saw in this form that that's exactly what we're going to look like.
[00:54:53]  And she was told that by experts in the field.
[00:54:56]  Steve, you get that video I just sent you?
[00:54:57]  The YouTube video?
[00:55:00]  Pull it up.
[00:55:00]  It just popped up.
[00:55:01]  I think that higher evolution can only come from factor meals.
[00:55:05]  You don't have to count calories or avoid foods that make you groggy.
[00:55:08]  You just trust factor.
[00:55:09]  I just tell factor my diet for the month and they send me my food.
[00:55:12]  So I can spend my time focusing on important things like Mike and space aliens.
[00:55:17]  Crush your wellness goals with me this month and get 50% off thanks to our sponsor, factor.
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[00:55:38]  So, what's so special?
[00:55:39]  You can target your health with specific plans like keto, calories, or protein rich meals.
[00:55:44]  And factor meals are never frozen, so the cell structure isn't destroyed by a freezing process resulting in mushy food.
[00:55:51]  It's like your future self slapping your diet in the face and saying, You're not going to do this to me.
[00:55:56]  When I close my eyes, I can taste my future.
[00:56:00]  Choose from 35 meals, 60 add ons, breakfast, even dessert.
[00:56:05]  So there's always something different for you to try out.
[00:56:08]  Shrimp, filet mignon, which I suck at making, by the way, delivered right to your door, mouth ready in two minutes.
[00:56:14]  So, like, what do you want for your body?
[00:56:16]  Flavored noodles or a meal you didn't have to plan?
[00:56:19]  Make today the day you kickstart your new healthy routine with me.
[00:56:22]  Head to factormeals.comslash Danny Jones 50 and use the code Danny Jones 50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month.
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[00:56:45]  Head on down to the link below.
[00:56:47]  Now back to the show.
[00:56:48]  Small orifice for a mouth.
[00:56:50]  And actually, instead of whites, actually have yellow eyes and eyes.
[00:56:52]  That's the irises and a pupil.
[00:56:54]  We put yellow in.
[00:56:56]  Okay.
[00:56:57]  To emphasize them.
[00:56:58]  I was going to say he needs bisine or it looks like he has malaria.
[00:57:02]  Okay.
[00:57:02]  But it's actually not this.
[00:57:03]  And now.
[00:57:05]  Junior has been evaluated by I don't know how many physical anthropologists.

=== Yellow Iris Robot Design Choice (10:14) ===

[00:57:10]  But what he looks like now, if we continue along the path of evolution, this is what we're going to look like in 25,000 years.
[00:57:20]  And would we be mammalian, reptilian, or insectoid, or a combination of the three?
[00:57:28]  I mean, because if you look at the way we're on our way with the nuclear, there was a nuclear exposure in Japan, for instance.
[00:57:36]  And radiation causes mutation.
[00:57:38]  And if you look along the lines of evolution, we lost our appendix, for instance.
[00:57:41]  People say we'll lose our little toe because we don't need it.
[00:57:45]  Yeah.
[00:57:45]  The brain capacity gets larger.
[00:57:47]  We become more spindly because we don't need muscles because it's mind over matter, correct?
[00:57:52]  Is that the.
[00:57:52]  No.
[00:57:53]  No, okay.
[00:57:54]  We've got to be like we are now, except.
[00:57:57]  I mean, look at mankind.
[00:57:58]  It's been around for, what, 2.6 million years?
[00:58:02]  Depends on who you talk to, I guess.
[00:58:03]  It's so subjective.
[00:58:05]  So that's not.
[00:58:06]  They've got the body.
[00:58:07]  It's bullshit.
[00:58:08]  It's not subjective.
[00:58:09]  I like this guy.
[00:58:10]  What the astronaut looked like.
[00:58:12]  Can I ask you something?
[00:58:14]  When they put that needle back on board the craft, they put the needle into your navel.
[00:58:18]  Some have speculated that perhaps they were taking eggs or ovae, or no, you don't think so.
[00:58:23]  No, because some have projected that.
[00:58:24]  Isn't it interesting if you correlate that with test two babies years on?
[00:58:28]  Yeah, well, of course, you know, at the time this happened, doctors said, Oh, it's absolutely impossible to put a needle in someone's navel, it would probably kill them, but they get infections.
[00:58:40]  And then I think the process was developed in a hospital down in Houston, Texas.
[00:58:45]  Shortly afterwards.
[00:58:47]  Nope.
[00:58:47]  Did they do a performance?
[00:58:49]  Steve, see when this video was published?
[00:58:53]  Hit escape, you see.
[00:58:54]  99.
[00:58:55]  Oh, 99.
[00:58:55]  Wow.
[00:58:55]  At least that's what's dated here.
[00:58:58]  Interesting.
[00:58:59]  Isn't that cool, though?
[00:59:00]  I just think it's super interesting.
[00:59:01]  It's super interesting.
[00:59:02]  Because, yeah, we got stuck on the.
[00:59:04]  Lost 108 minute interview.
[00:59:06]  Yeah.
[00:59:06]  We got stuck on the star map.
[00:59:08]  You know, it dominated the conversation.
[00:59:11]  But she thinks they're future humans.
[00:59:13]  Yeah.
[00:59:14]  And she doesn't think that they were trying to extract her eggs, though.
[00:59:17]  No, I think originally she thought that was a pregnancy test or something.
[00:59:21]  It's been pointed out to me by gynecologists since that that's a dumb way to take a pregnancy test.
[00:59:26]  That's probably not what they were doing.
[00:59:28]  So I don't know why they were doing what they were doing there.
[00:59:33]  And so much of what they do is mysterious to us because we don't have the technology, we don't have the knowledge of human anatomy that they have, diseases, parasites.
[00:59:44]  There's just so much.
[00:59:44]  So who knows?
[00:59:45]  Have you noticed any biological correlation between all the people that have gone through these?
[00:59:51]  Experiments or been a part of these breeding programs?
[00:59:55]  Like, what do they have anything in common?
[00:59:57]  Me personally, no, but I mean, there's the caudate putamen study that Gary Nolan did where they seemingly have more connections between the caudate and putamen in their brain, which can be an effect of trauma, right?
[01:00:13]  Yeah.
[01:00:14]  And, you know, there may be some relationship with disassociation, with intuition, empathy, just sensing other people.
[01:00:22]  And if that's the case, you know, then.
[01:00:25]  And this has been argued too that there's the case to be made that maybe it's an antenna, you know, that we're ramping up those connections to be more connected to this thing.
[01:00:36]  And in my first book, I look at this question what's with the telepathy basically?
[01:00:41]  Is it a brain to brain communication with some third party medium, with some technology, or is it direct brain to brain communication through consciousness?
[01:00:50]  And I came out on the side of consciousness that there seems to be the capacity to do this in people who have a first time experience, nothing's been put in their brain.
[01:01:00]  It's just our minds connecting, so to speak.
[01:01:02]  So, yeah, I don't know.
[01:01:05]  And maybe there's some biophysical marker that would indicate that.
[01:01:08]  Maybe it is the caudate butamen or something else that we haven't yet identified.
[01:01:11]  But we're just scratching the surface.
[01:01:13]  We haven't been allowed to talk about this stuff yet.
[01:01:16]  We haven't been able, and we still can't get grants to study this stuff.
[01:01:19]  And it's going to take money to get everybody in MRIs to do all these blood tests, genetic tests of markers.
[01:01:24]  Do you think it's true that any of these stories that the government has captured beings?
[01:01:29]  I don't know.
[01:01:29]  Like Roswell or anything like that?
[01:01:30]  No offense about that.
[01:01:31]  Because, yeah, you have.
[01:01:32]  You know, you have these videos, and those can be faked.
[01:01:36]  Um, the Roz or the Alien Autopsy, like that one was faked, but it was allegedly based on real footage, they just recreated it.
[01:01:45]  Um, you have people like Dan Burrish, who claims to have been a part of these.
[01:01:50]  Um, he was, I guess, sampling this J Rod individual, uh, from some and who claimed to have been future human from some 45 or 55,000 years in our future, I forget which specifically.
[01:02:02]  So, yeah, you look at all of this, even going back 10 years.
[01:02:05]  That would sound like nonsense.
[01:02:06]  Right.
[01:02:06]  Now, with Grush and his testimony and everything else, you kind of have to start putting all of these pieces together and looking at them holistically.
[01:02:13]  Like, maybe there's something to this.
[01:02:15]  Are you familiar with James Fox's Virginia documentary?
[01:02:18]  The aliens that were captured?
[01:02:19]  I watched it with him in a screening at the International UFO Congress in Phoenix, 2022, maybe?
[01:02:26]  So I think that case happened, that crash in Virginia, Brazil was like 1992, I believe.
[01:02:31]  I could be off by a couple years.
[01:02:33]  92 or 96, maybe.
[01:02:34]  Maybe I'm getting them conflated between that one and Ruiz and Bob.
[01:02:38]  Yeah, I think it was the 90s.
[01:02:40]  It was early 90s.
[01:02:41]  Yeah.
[01:02:41]  And one of the beings was captured, brought to a hospital.
[01:02:45]  They said it reeked of sulfur.
[01:02:48]  Or ammonia or something.
[01:02:49]  It was sulfur.
[01:02:50]  They said the hospital smelled like sulfur for weeks afterwards.
[01:02:53]  He interviewed the x ray technician.
[01:02:55]  And he said the things had cloven feet and red eyes.
[01:02:58]  Weird.
[01:03:00]  And then apparently the US Air Force came in and took the thing and left.
[01:03:06]  And there was like tons of military activity.
[01:03:08]  Somebody, if this story is real, which it seems like there is, because they interviewed so many witnesses around the town and the doctors.
[01:03:13]  And the girls who saw it initially, I think they found footprints in that yard where they encountered it.
[01:03:19]  Mm hmm.
[01:03:20]  Yeah, I know that's a fascinating picture.
[01:03:22]  Can you pull up a picture of the Varginha Brazil?
[01:03:24]  There you go.
[01:03:25]  He got Steve's on it today.
[01:03:27]  On the mark.
[01:03:28]  Like, that's a new one right there.
[01:03:31]  That's, yeah, I haven't seen that one, but that's close.
[01:03:33]  That's close to what he explained.
[01:03:34]  The red eyes, the brown, oily skin.
[01:03:37]  And the fingers were different.
[01:03:39]  And the finger, yeah, I think it had three fingers maybe.
[01:03:43]  Yeah.
[01:03:44]  Find a different one.
[01:03:45]  Like, this one seems a little off.
[01:03:48]  Yeah.
[01:03:48]  It seems a little off from the, this doesn't seem to fit the abduction encounters.
[01:03:52]  No, but it's a data point.
[01:03:53]  So we got to take it into account.
[01:03:55]  We can't throw anything out at this point.
[01:03:57]  Right.
[01:03:57]  And he said there were three horns on the head, too.
[01:03:59]  Like that one on the top left kind of shows those three horns.
[01:04:02]  That one looks like three bubbles or something.
[01:04:04]  One thing I often wonder, too, is if the contacts that are so commonly seen on these are some sort of like night vision or protective shield or maybe even technology of some sort that allows like the $6 million man, he can like focus in or, you know, change the amount of light.
[01:04:20]  Right.
[01:04:21]  And then another thing you talk about in your book, too.
[01:04:22]  So if we were.
[01:04:24]  If we were us, yeah, those are the witnesses a million years from now, or let's even say a hundred thousand years from now, we got we can travel backwards in time.
[01:04:33]  Are we going to send ourselves backwards in time, or are we going to send like some AI robots back in time?
[01:04:38]  I think both, and there's evidence for both, too.
[01:04:41]  I think what an interesting case is the Pascagoula, uh, Calvin Parker, Charles Higson, and that was also in the 70s, I think.
[01:04:52]  I'm really bad at dates, that's why I'm not a historian.
[01:04:54]  Um, but but they they were taken by a robot straight up.
[01:04:58]  No doubt about it, robot.
[01:04:59]  How do they describe it?
[01:05:01]  Elephant like skin, hovering club feet, antennas, three antennas, not like that, but like antennas, and made beep, boop, bop type of sounds.
[01:05:13]  Picked them up, carried them into the ship where they saw fully modern looking humans.
[01:05:17]  And that's interesting for a couple of reasons.
[01:05:19]  One, the humans looked like nerdy scientists, and you're not going to go out there and pick up two big dudes that are fishing.
[01:05:29]  Who are scared shitless of what's happening to them, you're going to send a big burly robot.
[01:05:34]  The one that came into Whitley's room initially had like a shield on it.
[01:05:37]  He describes being small, but like he mentioned them as being like the transporters or kind of the muscle of the operation.
[01:05:45]  Yeah, he said they're little like ogre looking beings.
[01:05:48]  Yeah, whose job may be just that, like little abduction droids, I think I called them in my book.
[01:05:54]  But then there was also the small grays and then the woman, the tall gray woman, who seemingly have traits indicative of a more distant point in our future.
[01:06:03]  A more evolved consciousness and the ability to control these other forms.
[01:06:08]  It's almost like they're using their mind to control what's happening to orchestrate this thing and to keep people calm to the best of their abilities in these moments.
[01:06:15]  So I absolutely think they're not just going to use robots like in the past Gagula case, but that we would eventually bioengineer robots.
[01:06:23]  We get past moving parts and things that can break down and need oiled, but we will.
[01:06:28]  Yeah, we could 3D print a biological being, right?
[01:06:30]  Yeah, or even just hybridize using genetic manipulation the same way we went from Teosinte, a corn.
[01:06:37]  Cob used to be about three inches tall to the big, delicious ear of corn we have now, simply through the manipulation of genetics and selective hybridization, selective breeding.
[01:06:46]  So, we might be able to do that to create kind of a robot like thing.
[01:06:51]  Yeah, you know, the ones without genitals, maybe they don't need genitals because we're just making them.
[01:06:56]  Maybe it helps explain that aspect.
[01:06:58]  Right.
[01:06:58]  Because we can just create them.
[01:07:00]  They're not reproducing themselves, but they serve some specific function with regard to the abduction itself, or they're carrying out, they're the worker bees essentially of these future humans.
[01:07:12]  Right, yeah, those are the things that he describes.
[01:07:14]  Is that what they are?
[01:07:16]  Wasn't the movie where he said the little beings that moved him around?
[01:07:19]  I think this is a joke.
[01:07:21]  It is a joke, but it looks like it.
[01:07:23]  It looks like the ones from the movie, I think.

=== Biblical Times Time Travel Theory (10:47) ===

[01:07:25]  Yeah.
[01:07:27]  So, okay, so.
[01:07:31]  Yeah, the ones like the Vargini alien is super strange because it seems to echo like biblical.
[01:07:43]  Depictions of demons.
[01:07:46]  In ancient texts and like biblical texts, there's recollections of demons smelling like sulfur and having cloven feet.
[01:07:52]  Yeah.
[01:07:53]  And, you know, what's to say if these things can travel back in time?
[01:07:58]  They could probably travel back to biblical times.
[01:08:00]  Oh, absolutely.
[01:08:01]  And I wouldn't be surprised if much of our religious lore and various folkways and mores throughout history are the direct result of contact.
[01:08:12]  I mean, why wouldn't they be?
[01:08:14]  You know, these seemingly magical beings come down from the sky.
[01:08:16]  They have the ability to levitate, they know the future.
[01:08:19]  Like you think of the archangel Gabriel, who told Mary that this is going to happen.
[01:08:23]  You're going to have this.
[01:08:24]  He knew the future.
[01:08:25]  He warned her about what's going to happen.
[01:08:27]  It started with a dream, and then, you know, clearly she was impregnated.
[01:08:31]  If, you know, this situation, I'm playing devil's advocate here, if that situation played out the way it was described, there's a lot of overlap with abduction encounters where there'll be dreams about this.
[01:08:44]  It sort of normalizes it to some extent, and then you're brought into this.
[01:08:48]  Very strange world, Jesus had paranormal powers.
[01:08:52]  He could heal the sick.
[01:08:53]  He could levitate.
[01:08:54]  He could make fish rain down from the sky.
[01:08:57]  You could easily pull off all of those tricks with the technology that is on display in these cases of close contact.
[01:09:04]  And it's a big part of the storyline in that book, too, which is.
[01:09:09]  Let's talk about this for a minute.
[01:09:10]  Your book, Revelation, with a beautiful, beautiful artistry depiction of Jesus.
[01:09:21]  Jesus Christ is being sucked up.
[01:09:23]  Into a spaceship, a flying saucer, throwing us the double bird.
[01:09:27]  Double bird.
[01:09:28]  Yeah.
[01:09:30]  That is correct.
[01:09:30]  That's gorgeous.
[01:09:31]  And there's actually, it's really, really funny how that happened because one of the artists I commissioned to do that piece, I just did a sketch of Gigi's doing this underneath the UFO, like your classic little peace sign or whatever it was he did.
[01:09:46]  He thought he was flipping the bird and then went even bigger and did the double bird.
[01:09:50]  I was talking to him at this conference in New York City.
[01:09:53]  Like, man, I totally respect that you just took that and ran with it because they gave me that as the final proof.
[01:09:58]  Yeah, not even like, hey, do you mind if we had Jesus throwing up a middle finger, let alone two of them?
[01:10:03]  And I was like, I can't believe you guys did that.
[01:10:05]  He's like, didn't you draw that in a sketch?
[01:10:06]  I was like, no.
[01:10:07]  But there's actually a scene in the book where, after Jesus, I don't want to give away too much, but after Jesus is brought back to life after the crucifixion, that there's this scene where he's shouting Tupac lyrics, you know, going around Jerusalem, flipping everybody off, you know, like, uh.
[01:10:25]  It gets a little weird.
[01:10:27]  So, the fact that they just took that and ran with it, mistaking a sketch I had done, and then there's actually a scene in the book where Jesus is doing that, I was like, well, we got to keep that.
[01:10:37]  It'll probably piss people off, but it's kind of funny.
[01:10:39]  Yeah.
[01:10:41]  That's funny.
[01:10:42]  Yeah.
[01:10:42]  No, if I had a time machine, I would go back.
[01:10:44]  There's two points I'd go back to.
[01:10:46]  I would want to see how the pyramids were built, and I want to see what Jesus was doing.
[01:10:51]  Totally.
[01:10:52]  There was actually in Kurt Vonnegut Slaughterhouse Five, that was one of the things they did too, to go back and see if Jesus actually died.
[01:11:00]  During the crucifixion, or if it was sort of just a dramatic thing to help spur.
[01:11:05]  I mean, that's one of the main parts of the faith.
[01:11:08]  You see the crosses, Jesus on it everywhere.
[01:11:10]  It's kind of the main element of that faith the crucifixion, sacrificing yourself for humanity and whatnot.
[01:11:19]  Yeah.
[01:11:19]  Yeah.
[01:11:20]  I mean, it's a huge mystery, right?
[01:11:21]  People want to believe it.
[01:11:22]  But the truth is about the gospels is that they were written, most of them, hundreds of years later.
[01:11:28]  And they were written.
[01:11:30]  Not by people who witnessed stuff, but they were basically the people who wrote them were writing them based on testimony of people who told them that things happened.
[01:11:39]  And it was hundreds of years later.
[01:11:41]  And there are so many books that were taken out too that tell a very interesting story that maybe adds a lot of depth and breadth to what happened because these things, many of them were historical events, but they were just left out.
[01:11:55]  So most people have a very slimmed down version.
[01:11:56]  I saw you had Jeff Kraepel on your show not too long ago, and he's written extensively about many of these.
[01:12:02]  Other texts, Gnostic texts, and yeah, and kind of what we can learn from those, and many religious scholars have as well.
[01:12:08]  But I really like his approach because he also focuses on many of the things we're not supposed to talk about or that we'd like to pretend weren't characteristics of Jesus' life, and right, him lying with you know prostitutes and hanging out with the children, the women of the night, children, right?
[01:12:27]  Yeah, and a lot of that stuff was more common back then, but we you don't want Christians to think about Jesus in that way, so we paint this picture.
[01:12:35]  Of what this was.
[01:12:36]  And a big part of this book, too, is calling out the hypocrisy in that.
[01:12:40]  A lot of people have a mouth full of scripture, but a heart full of hate.
[01:12:45]  And that's not the teachings of Jesus.
[01:12:47]  It was about love and empathy and kindness and taking care of the poor and the weak and the sick.
[01:12:52]  So this book kind of bolsters those ideas while calling out the rampant hypocrisy that's grown up around it.
[01:12:59]  Yeah.
[01:13:01]  There's a lot to talk about there.
[01:13:03]  You know, one of the things.
[01:13:05]  That's really interesting to me about that whole era of human history is that you have like the Bible that's based on the Gospels of those guys, Mark, John, I forget the rest of them.
[01:13:17]  Anyways, there's, but there's so much more text and history in that area that is not included and it's purposefully ignored.
[01:13:25]  There's comedians that existed from 100 BC to 100 AD.
[01:13:32]  There's physicians and doctors that existed.
[01:13:35]  And these and poets that existed, and all these people wrote extensively about what was going on.
[01:13:40]  That gives you a lot of context to what was happening in those times.
[01:13:44]  And when you talk to like classicists or linguists, that's how they figure out what words mean.
[01:13:51]  So there's like this thing called semantic drift.
[01:13:53]  Like if you take the timeline of history, one word can mean something totally different in 1500 BC than what it means in 1500 AD.
[01:14:01]  Right.
[01:14:01]  So that's how that's why they take every single bit of writing.
[01:14:05]  And art, or whatever it is that they can find, drawings on temple ceilings to figure out what things meant, to figure out the context, what was really happening in that part of history.
[01:14:16]  Yeah, I'd never heard that term before, but it makes a lot of sense.
[01:14:21]  Semantic drift.
[01:14:21]  Semantic drift.
[01:14:22]  Yeah, that's cool.
[01:14:23]  Similar to genetic drift.
[01:14:24]  So, yeah, one of the examples that Guy Amon Hillman brought up on the show is the word laistase, an ancient Greek word that's experienced a lot of semantic drift over time.
[01:14:35]  And in the Bible, it's used to describe when Jesus was arrested in the park.
[01:14:38]  He says, I'm not a laistase.
[01:14:42]  Biblical scholars like to say that laistase means a revolutionary.
[01:14:47]  Yeah.
[01:14:48]  But Caesar was captured by child traffickers.
[01:14:54]  And when he was captured by them and when he eventually.
[01:14:58]  Got set free.
[01:15:00]  I think they had to like, they paid a bounty for the captors, the pirates or the traffickers that caught him.
[01:15:06]  And he eventually got set free.
[01:15:08]  He crucified them and he called them.
[01:15:10]  He literally, this is like documented, he called them laystays.
[01:15:14]  So they were child kidnappers, traffickers, and he crucified them.
[01:15:17]  And that's this guy saying that Caesar used the word laystays as a child trafficker.
[01:15:23]  And Jesus said he was not a laystays when he was arrested in the park.
[01:15:26]  This is less than 100 years apart.
[01:15:27]  Yes, he's as a child running away and he has barely any clothes on.
[01:15:30]  Exactly, with a naked kid running away.
[01:15:33]  Yeah, so take for that that's interesting context an important context left out of the narrative biblical doesn't not only left out but biblical scholars go out of their way to basically change the meaning of shit, right?
[01:15:45]  Yeah, I know it's uh, there's some muddy waters even I tweeted recently Um, about I don't want this to get political because I'm largely apolitical I've given up on all that shit because it's hopeless um, but but in the first the the other two that you were talking about Matthew and Luke, I think, were the other ones.
[01:16:04]  But in the first book, Matthew, the very first section of it, there's all this stuff about sex and adultery and violence.
[01:16:12]  And it's like, well, this is the text.
[01:16:14]  This is what you're reading growing up.
[01:16:15]  It's beaten into my head as a kid.
[01:16:16]  I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household.
[01:16:20]  And, you know, I'm being taught that women belong in the kitchen and all of these things about racial superiority and stuff.
[01:16:26]  I'm like, that can't be in this book.
[01:16:28]  You know, is this really what we're being taught?
[01:16:30]  I started to reflect on as I got older.
[01:16:32]  And I'm like, Jesus Christ, a lot of that is in the book.
[01:16:34]  Yeah.
[01:16:34]  But there's also crazy shit about prostitutes and.
[01:16:37]  Oh, yeah.
[01:16:37]  Children slaughtering children, yeah, like literally going in and slaughtering women and keeping.
[01:16:45]  I've been reading the Bible on and off like the last few months because I've really been getting into it recently from the guests that I've had in.
[01:16:50]  There's a part that I just listened to I'm listening to the audio Bible that talks about how they would go in, kill all the women and children and boys, but they would keep like the prepubescent girls that were virgins because they could breed with them.
[01:17:03]  That's Darfur, that's what happened in the genocide in Darfur and many other conflicts throughout the world.
[01:17:09]  Yeah, it's weird, you know, and I'm not.
[01:17:11]  It's also full of contradictions, too.
[01:17:13]  Like, there's tons of timeline contradictions, especially when it comes to Noah and some of the things that happened.
[01:17:18]  Yeah.
[01:17:19]  And, you know, I'm not here to bash the Bible or any religion per se.
[01:17:24]  I only bring it up because there is something to be said for the original teachings of this one individual, this historical figure, Jesus, you know, and I did hold on to those parts.
[01:17:37]  I'm, it's more religious than I am able.
[01:17:41]  Political these days.
[01:17:42]  But I do remember there's actually a moral framework that's.
[01:17:44]  And I think there's something to that, and especially in the context of where we're going as a species.
[01:17:48]  And maybe the intent was to introduce those ideas of empathy and love for others and taking care of others into this time 2,000 plus years ago.
[01:17:57]  And that was supposed to take off and resonate.
[01:18:00]  Failed experiment if that was the case, because everybody just took out swords and started fighting each other over these different prophets and ideas and, you know, who's a prophet, who's not a prophet.
[01:18:09]  Right.
[01:18:10]  But what if, you know, that is the future of humanity?

=== Block Universe Single Timeline View (15:46) ===

[01:18:13]  What if they sent back?
[01:18:14]  This highly evolved, highly conscious, highly empathetic individual to carry out this mission that would help move us in that direction to become more like them, to evolve our consciousness even more.
[01:18:28]  Did it work?
[01:18:29]  No.
[01:18:30]  But you could see how that might be something they would try to do.
[01:18:33]  But then it gets into questions like are we just in some kind of simulation?
[01:18:36]  Are we an experiment?
[01:18:37]  Are they just throwing things in here and there?
[01:18:40]  Can we even change the past?
[01:18:41]  Did they already know what was going to happen if we're in a block universe model?
[01:18:44]  There's I'm not saying that's the case.
[01:18:46]  It's just a fun thought experiment.
[01:18:47]  And that's a big part of what this book was to sort of think about a lot of religious lore in the context of real contact with future humans and what the intention behind that might have been and what the ramifications of those interjections might have been as well.
[01:19:02]  Right.
[01:19:03]  And there's also a point in the extra tempestrial model book where the two brothers basically came across a flying saucer that was just had these.
[01:19:16]  These two dudes who didn't look like great aliens, they looked like humans, like exercising outside the ship.
[01:19:22]  And they brought it like they came back a bunch of times, like weeks apart.
[01:19:27]  And they eventually brought them in and showed them stuff, answered all their questions, gave them a tour, except one, except one question they asked them about Jesus, right?
[01:19:36]  And that was the one question they could not answer.
[01:19:40]  I find that fascinating.
[01:19:41]  Jeff Crapo actually, I was at a conference with him at the Eslin Institute in 2022.
[01:19:46]  And he had a little PowerPoint introducing every, like the main things we're going to talk about in this group of PhDs at this really iconic place in the cliffsides outside of Big Sur.
[01:19:58]  And he brought that up in his little slide.
[01:20:01]  He brought up Aston Walton, I forget his name, but the guy who interviewed Leo Dworkak about this interaction.
[01:20:10]  But he brought that up specifically.
[01:20:12]  Like this was the one question, they answered all his questions about electromagnetism, language, travel through space and time, but they wouldn't talk about Jesus.
[01:20:21]  And Jeff was like, we all need to think about that.
[01:20:23]  What does that mean?
[01:20:25]  Whether they're extraterrestrial, time travelers, whatever.
[01:20:27]  What does that mean?
[01:20:28]  He pulled out the importance of that too.
[01:20:31]  And I'm glad you did because I think it is really telling and ties into what I was just talking about.
[01:20:36]  Like, how do these things relate if they are future humans and they are coming back?
[01:20:41]  They must be aware.
[01:20:42]  Yeah, if they can go back from hundreds of thousands of years in the future to now, they could certainly go back to.
[01:20:50]  And they must be aware that it's influencing our cultures tremendously.
[01:20:54]  Cranial morphine, the cranial boarding, intentional cranial modification is the technical term for it.
[01:21:00]  We see this across the world and through time, and almost every major civilization throughout the world, and a lot of small ones, even Neanderthals might have done it.
[01:21:08]  But why?
[01:21:10]  Why are they forcing their children's head, which must have been tremendously painful?
[01:21:14]  Why are they doing this unless there's some huge reason for it?
[01:21:18]  And even there was a study, Geertz and Geertz, in 1995, where they interviewed people why are you doing this?
[01:21:24]  Because our ancestors were instructed by the gods to do it.
[01:21:27]  Is what they said.
[01:21:28]  Who are these gods?
[01:21:29]  The gods, if they're future humans, if they're aliens, whether they're future human or not, have big round heads.
[01:21:35]  How do you get that shape?
[01:21:36]  You squish your head from front to back.
[01:21:38]  So, yeah, there's so many things the cave paintings with the, there's just, there's so many.
[01:21:44]  And if they're doing that and it's influencing these cultures, if it's influencing and creating the major religions of the world, how do they see that?
[01:21:52]  How do they see what they're doing?
[01:21:54]  That ain't your Star Trek non interference, prime directive type shit.
[01:21:58]  They're clearly influencing the past and present and potentially their own future in ways.
[01:22:04]  But there's so many questions.
[01:22:06]  I don't have an answer.
[01:22:07]  It's something I've been thinking about lately and it kind of makes my brain hurt.
[01:22:11]  So, if they asked them, I don't know what they asked them is Jesus real or is religion?
[01:22:15]  Is all the stuff real?
[01:22:16]  I mean, I guess that would be the first question.
[01:22:18]  I forget the exact phrasing.
[01:22:18]  It was something like that, though.
[01:22:20]  Yeah.
[01:22:20]  If it was real and they knew it was real, why would they not answer?
[01:22:26]  However, if it was not real and they told the kids it was not real, you would seem that would affect us more.
[01:22:34]  I played the fifth and moved on.
[01:22:36]  Yeah.
[01:22:36]  Right.
[01:22:37]  No, that's a good point.
[01:22:38]  They break it down even more.
[01:22:39]  Like, Yeah, how does that aversion factor in in both cases, real or not real?
[01:22:47]  Yeah.
[01:22:49]  I had Eric Wargo in here and he was explaining to me.
[01:22:51]  Love Eric.
[01:22:51]  Yeah, yeah, he's great.
[01:22:52]  He has the whole time loops theory, which is amazing.
[01:22:59]  He was explaining to me, and I don't remember it perfectly, but there's like a time travel paradox, basically, or a paradox to if we go back in time and we affect ourselves, it's going to basically affect them in the future so they can't exist.
[01:23:14]  And that all ties into the block universe versus the multiverse.
[01:23:18]  Yeah, Eric is big time team block universe for sure.
[01:23:22]  And I am too, for the most part, only because it is the dominant paradigm to explain time and time travel.
[01:23:31]  And can you, for people for the layman, can you explain the basic differences between the block universe and the multiverse?
[01:23:35]  Right, right.
[01:23:35]  Sure.
[01:23:35]  So in the block universe model, and I always recommend an article, I think her name's Dr. Christy Miller.
[01:23:44]  At the University of Adelaide, maybe.
[01:23:47]  It's in Australia, but she wrote this great, concise article, very layman's terms, that helps explain if people want to look that up.
[01:23:53]  I'll do a short one here.
[01:23:55]  The block universe is basically the idea that all moments from the very beginning of the Big Bang to the very last bit of matter leaving this universe and likely going back to start the Big Bang, because I think it's cyclic.
[01:24:09]  All of those moments are structured as sort of static, stationary.
[01:24:17]  In a four dimensional block.
[01:24:19]  So if you move between those, you're not changing anything.
[01:24:22]  You're just connecting different parts of that block.
[01:24:24]  It's also called landscape time occasionally because it's easier for us to factor out one dimension.
[01:24:29]  So think of all of time and all of the moments throughout history, past, present, and future, as being on a static sheet.
[01:24:36]  You can jump to another part within that, but it's not going to affect anything about where you came from.
[01:24:42]  What you're doing, if you go into the past, is basically just interacting in the way you always had.
[01:24:49]  And there's not going to be a change because when you get back, you find that you had just done what you were always going to do.
[01:24:55]  So there's no paradox in the block universe because there's no change.
[01:25:00]  You're interjecting yourself, you're doing the things.
[01:25:02]  I think in her article, yeah, she's talking about you're walking around, you're petting donkeys and eating lunch and interacting with people, but you're not changing anything.
[01:25:11]  You're just doing what you'd always done in that period.
[01:25:14]  It just took you to go back to do it.
[01:25:16]  Another thing that helps people sometimes is to think about meeting yourself.
[01:25:20]  So, if you go back, say you're 40 years old, you go back to when you were 10, you get out of this disc shaped time machine and you go up and say, Hey, I'm you from the future.
[01:25:28]  Oh, cool.
[01:25:29]  Nice to meet you.
[01:25:29]  Got any advice?
[01:25:30]  Don't date Rose.
[01:25:32]  She was bad for you.
[01:25:33]  Dale?
[01:25:34]  Don't raise today, Dale.
[01:25:35]  Don't raise today.
[01:25:36]  What was that from?
[01:25:37]  I'd go back and tell Dale Earnhardt not to get not to raise that day.
[01:25:40]  Right, right, right.
[01:25:41]  Yeah, but see, that's the thing you can't change anything in the block universe.
[01:25:44]  And one of the saddest things for me when I started doing this and writing about it and talking publicly in 2018 and 19, I never thought.
[01:25:53]  In my life, I would have people writing me asking me how to save their dead child or their lost father, relative, or something.
[01:26:01]  It was tremendously sad.
[01:26:03]  Like, that was not on my radar at all.
[01:26:04]  I thought I'd lose my job and people would hate me for other things related to this, but I never thought I would have to try to help people who are suffering tremendous loss from something they wanted to change.
[01:26:16]  Unfortunately, in the block universe, you can't change those things.
[01:26:19]  Those moments are structured that way.
[01:26:21]  So everything's predetermined.
[01:26:22]  Nothing can be changed.
[01:26:23]  Yeah, here's a good way of looking at it.
[01:26:26]  I don't want to say that, but that is one of the reasons.
[01:26:29]  Because the hate mail, man, they come after me.
[01:26:31]  They come after me hard when I do this.
[01:26:32]  Just delete it.
[01:26:33]  You don't have to read it.
[01:26:35]  Yeah, that's one of the implications of this.
[01:26:39]  Some people see that as an issue.
[01:26:40]  I don't.
[01:26:40]  I actually kind of like it.
[01:26:41]  Really?
[01:26:42]  I call it feel will because it feels like we have free will.
[01:26:44]  Who cares if we do or we don't?
[01:26:45]  Right.
[01:26:46]  And there are all these studies, like the Libet study, showing we don't even know what we're doing until after we do it.
[01:26:52]  We don't have conscious awareness of our actions until milliseconds after it actually happens.
[01:26:58]  Another thing, this is the big hang up for people, and I think this helps folks wrap their head around the block universe, is that if you look to the past, you can see all these things that might have happened in your life, but there's just one timeline, there's one world line for you and everybody else.
[01:27:11]  We look to the future and we say, oh, there's all these infinite possibilities.
[01:27:15]  Anything could happen.
[01:27:16]  But if you're looking back from 100 years in that future, they see the one line.
[01:27:22]  They see the only one thing actually happened.
[01:27:25]  All of those possibilities converged into one world line for the universe.
[01:27:30]  And that's essentially what this is it's looking back at the end of the universe and seeing that one line that played out in this universe.
[01:27:37]  There was one history.
[01:27:38]  You can move around within it, it's not changing anything.
[01:27:41]  It's not like you come back and It rains donuts and cats are dogs and dogs are cats.
[01:27:46]  It's that everything is still the same.
[01:27:48]  You just went and did what you're going to do.
[01:27:50]  Versus the multiverse, many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is one of the more dominant models here, where if you go back into the past, it creates this quantum decoherence and now you have two different timelines.
[01:28:04]  It bifurcates the timeline.
[01:28:05]  And there are issues with the law of conservation of mass.
[01:28:07]  How can you just double this huge universe and all of the mass within it into two different things?
[01:28:14]  There are other issues too, but that's one of the big ones.
[01:28:17]  So, in that model, you have different timelines.
[01:28:20]  And I've often said that I think the interdimensional theory and the intertemporal theory, this extra tempestuous, are essentially one and the same.
[01:28:28]  But basically, this interdimensional one of the versions focuses more on jumping timelines.
[01:28:33]  Yes.
[01:28:33]  Whereas this extra tempestuous model, because it is the most dominant paradigm that we understand in philosophy and physics, looks at it in the context of the Novikov self consistency principle that all things remain the same, there is no change.
[01:28:47]  You're just interacting with the block universe in all of these different ways.
[01:28:51]  It's not creating new timelines.
[01:28:53]  It's not creating change.
[01:28:54]  There is no paradox.
[01:28:56]  So I mostly focused on that because it's what we know.
[01:28:59]  Is it wrong?
[01:29:00]  We'll find out in the future.
[01:29:01]  I don't know.
[01:29:01]  But I can only base the things I write about on our current knowledge of physics and philosophy.
[01:29:09]  Right.
[01:29:10]  Yeah, that was a super compelling piece of your book when you talk about interstellar travel.
[01:29:18]  So, like the time dilation that occurs when you travel at the speed of light.
[01:29:21]  So, like if we eventually figure out light speed travel, and I think you made the case in your book that it takes like 22 years to travel from like the edge of the universe to the center of the universe or something like that in rocket time.
[01:29:33]  Rocket time, 11 years to the center from the edge, 22 years.
[01:29:37]  22 from edge to edge of the universe.
[01:29:39]  Yeah.
[01:29:39]  Or to the center and back from the.
[01:29:41]  Is that traveling at like light speed or what speed is that?
[01:29:43]  Yeah, like 99.99999999%.
[01:29:46]  Okay.
[01:29:46]  But yeah, so that was 100,000 years on Earth time.
[01:29:49]  Right.
[01:29:50]  Or something like that, or no, from edge to edge, it was like 2 million years, right?
[01:29:53]  No, it was 100,000.
[01:29:54]  Yeah, so an 11, a 22 year round trip.
[01:29:57]  And this is based on God, I'm spacing his name.
[01:30:02]  But yeah, a well known physicist did these calculations.
[01:30:09]  I don't have the capacity to do that math.
[01:30:12]  But yeah, he said that a 22 year round trip in your ship, very doable, you could survive that, would be 100,000 years on Earth based on the basic time dilation, Einstein's 1905 paper.
[01:30:26]  I think it was called The Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies or something like that.
[01:30:31]  Displayed nicely in Interstellar, how he goes off and he comes back, and his daughter is like 90 years old.
[01:30:37]  Exactly.
[01:30:38]  Yeah.
[01:30:38]  And the argument I made is that if we're going to do interstellar travel, we're going to need to also conquer backward time travel.
[01:30:47]  Right.
[01:30:47]  Because you don't want to just get back to your planet and have everybody be dead.
[01:30:51]  You want to get back to your time, too.
[01:30:53]  It's hilarious how you explained that if we sent a crew of astronauts out to explore the edge of the galaxy and they were 25 years into their trip, Yeah.
[01:31:03]  And then all of a sudden, like a set of astronauts pulled up next to him in like 10 minutes with their belly full of breakfast.
[01:31:10]  So much more from Earth breakfast.
[01:31:12]  That wasn't mine.
[01:31:13]  I pulled that.
[01:31:13]  A guy was writing about my book on Medium.
[01:31:18]  And those were all words.
[01:31:19]  Yeah.
[01:31:20]  I was quoting him in there.
[01:31:21]  I can't remember his name Trevor or something.
[01:31:22]  That's hilarious.
[01:31:23]  Yeah.
[01:31:24]  He put that so well.
[01:31:25]  I love that.
[01:31:25]  They're in a 25 year trip to the edge of the galaxy, but that's really like 100,000 years on Earth, which we could easily develop technology that's so much more advanced.
[01:31:34]  By then, and they could travel probably 10 times.
[01:31:36]  And it was a great point, one that I hadn't even thought of.
[01:31:38]  Yeah.
[01:31:39]  As soon as I read that, I was like, damn, that's a really good point, you know, because, yeah, if things are speeding up on Earth, what's the point of even trying to send somebody out because they're going to get all this way in this very fancy technology?
[01:31:51]  And then you just catch right up to them.
[01:31:52]  Right.
[01:31:53]  Because everything's going so fast back on Earth.
[01:31:55]  And I'd never even thought about that, but Trevor Mahoney, I think, was his name.
[01:31:59]  But he phrases it really well, too.
[01:32:01]  And, and like, yeah, the implications of that.
[01:32:04]  It would be pointless.
[01:32:04]  People catch up, like, shit, seriously.
[01:32:06]  Like, what am I doing?
[01:32:07]  Is my whole life's work?
[01:32:08]  And they're just Wizened by me, yeah, that's such a paradox because it would be it's it's it would render it pointless, yeah, right?
[01:32:15]  Because you spend your whole life traveling and then earth just catches up and you're here like in this primitive spaceship.
[01:32:21]  What's the point, yeah?
[01:32:22]  But at what point do you do it with that in mind, you know?
[01:32:26]  Like, where do you draw the line?
[01:32:28]  Because at some point, you're going to want to do it, right?
[01:32:30]  Right?
[01:32:30]  Well, it would make sense that we would want to figure out time travel first, we could go back and get back, true, true, yeah, get back to that time in our life, yeah, because then you already know you can go forward.
[01:32:41]  Yeah.
[01:32:41]  And actually, a friend of mine, Hussein Ali Agrama, he's a professor of anthropology as well at the University of Chicago.
[01:32:48]  But he made a little cameo in that book.
[01:32:50]  He's the guy that I had in there proposing the super technological singularity.
[01:32:56]  Like people talk about a singularity in AI.
[01:32:58]  Yeah.
[01:32:58]  But he's saying, if these are future humans, at some point, if we know who they are and we have access to all of the knowledge of the future, we instantly become part of that.
[01:33:10]  Like it's the singularity where all of the information, all the technology is available to us.
[01:33:15]  And we could solve so many problems, we could cure all these diseases, we would be them instantly.
[01:33:22]  That's pretty wild to think about, but I think he makes a solid point.
[01:33:25]  That is pretty wild to think about.
[01:33:26]  Are there people that think that when I think a lot of people speculate that the singularity is going to happen in like the 2030s, 2040s?
[01:33:34]  Do people ever talk about when we might be able to figure out time travel or actually experiment with time travel?
[01:33:40]  Well, what's interesting is that if time travel exists, we have time travel at all points in the past that that can reach.
[01:33:48]  So, there really is no point where time travel becomes new, essentially.
[01:33:54]  Because think about it.
[01:33:55]  Like, we say we don't have time travel yet, but it exists 100 years in our future.

=== Illusion of Fast Space Movement (15:17) ===

[01:33:59]  Someone from 100 years in our future can come back and pick us up now and take us to whatever point in the past they want to.
[01:34:05]  We didn't have it now, but because it's accessible to the people in the future that do, it's also accessible to us.
[01:34:11]  It's kind of the same thing as that super technological singularity where all of these things and these capabilities become available to us at whatever point they decide to let us know.
[01:34:21]  And that may be a part of what this disclosure movement is too, is shifting us toward that because finally we're not the humans trying to have a conversation with ants.
[01:34:31]  We're the humans trying to have a conversation with more advanced humans.
[01:34:34]  So, do you think these government programs where they have these crashed vehicles or these reverse engineering programs, these are time machines that they have?
[01:34:42]  Yeah.
[01:34:43]  And think about it too.
[01:34:46]  If they are, say this time machine crashed in Roswell, let's just use the Roswell example.
[01:34:52]  People see this as a paradox too, even though it's also not paradoxical in a block universe.
[01:34:57]  But if you go back in time and crash this thing outside the desert of Roswell in 1947, Those people didn't create that thing.
[01:35:04]  It crashed into there.
[01:35:05]  But they're reverse engineering it.
[01:35:07]  They're figuring out how to use it and how to make it and how to fly it and how it manipulates space time.
[01:35:12]  And eventually you develop that same machine that goes back and crashes in 1947, starts it over, goes back.
[01:35:18]  It's this infinite time loop of self consistent events that are connected across two different points in the block universe.
[01:35:25]  But where the paradox comes from, it's called the bootstrap paradox, is because people think there has to be an origin point.
[01:35:32]  There has to be a creator.
[01:35:33]  They say, who created it?
[01:35:34]  Must be a paradox.
[01:35:35]  Doesn't matter.
[01:35:36]  That thing's always existed in those bookended connected points in space time.
[01:35:42]  The people in the past didn't create it because it crashed into their time.
[01:35:45]  People in the future didn't create it because it took the reverse engineering of the people who had it initially to create that thing.
[01:35:51]  So it's like, I always say it's like looking for a corner on a rounded ball.
[01:35:55]  There is no corner because it's not a block, it's a ball.
[01:35:57]  It doesn't matter.
[01:35:58]  It's just always existed.
[01:36:00]  But it violates our fragile sensibilities about linear time and cause and effect.
[01:36:05]  One of the first things we do in kindergarten is we're given.
[01:36:08]  There's little things we got to cut out the paper and then put them in order.
[01:36:11]  We're taught from a very young age, brainwashed almost, that linear time is all there is.
[01:36:16]  Not the case when you have backward time travel capabilities.
[01:36:20]  And why do you think these things technically and physically can work as time machines?
[01:36:27]  Because, I mean, there's been the cases made in the book from the guys who were given.
[01:36:33]  There was one guy who saw the thing hovering above a lake or a river or something like that.
[01:36:37]  And he basically showed him the schematics and how the thing operated.
[01:36:39]  And you claim that that's how a time machine would work?
[01:36:42]  Udu Artena.
[01:36:43]  Yeah.
[01:36:43]  Well, what they told him is that they were extracting hydrogen from the water in order to power it, I guess.
[01:36:53]  I don't know.
[01:36:54]  Or it had something to do with their power system.
[01:36:56]  Again, these were human looking things.
[01:36:58]  Entirely human.
[01:36:59]  Entirely humans.
[01:37:00]  They spoke to him verbally.
[01:37:03]  They said they spoke 500 languages.
[01:37:06]  I make an interesting correlation in that book because the case study right before it was Mike and Leo Dwarshak in South Dakota.
[01:37:14]  The one with Udo Huertaena was outside of Helena, Montana, not far from where I live.
[01:37:20]  And they both claimed to have spoken 500 languages, came out of ships that looked very similar, had very similar appearances and clothing.
[01:37:27]  I wonder if maybe they were the same, if it was the same group.
[01:37:30]  They just happened to come across these two different groups of individuals.
[01:37:34]  But that makes sense.
[01:37:35]  You could use the oxygen to breathe and you could use the hydrogen for power.
[01:37:39]  I kind of feel that maybe they're using something more, like they've cracked the case on zero point energy, cold fusion.
[01:37:46]  Perhaps because they're going to need a lot of energy to do this.
[01:37:49]  In any case, yeah, so it seems that the craft themselves, as I mentioned earlier, we have this expression in biology that form follows function.
[01:38:02]  And you can use this with anything.
[01:38:03]  You can look at the form of a fork and think, well, that probably stabs something to eat.
[01:38:08]  You can watch people use it, obviously, and get more information.
[01:38:11]  But the form of these crafts seemed to indicate the function of backward time travel.
[01:38:16]  So, what I did, because I don't understand how to backward time travel, I'm an anthropologist, nobody understands how to do that.
[01:38:22]  What I did is I started with Einstein's 1915 paper on general relativity.
[01:38:27]  His first one in 1905 was on special relativity.
[01:38:29]  We just talked about the twin paradox, also not a fucking paradox, but how time and space are relative.
[01:38:37]  That was the point of the Electrodynamics on Moving Bodies paper.
[01:38:40]  In 1915, he talked about how there's a curvature of space time, which was largely developed in association with his mentor, Minkowski.
[01:38:49]  Minkowski space time is our four dimensional, the same understanding that we have today.
[01:38:56]  So, it's relative.
[01:38:58]  When you travel at a high rate of speed, like we were talking about right before we started back up, everything's compressed.
[01:39:03]  You're going away from the Earth and it looks like everything stops.
[01:39:06]  You look back and everything's just frozen because you're moving at the same speed as the light that left Earth at that same time.
[01:39:13]  As you turn around and come back, you're now blasting through all of those moments that you had missed as you were traveling and then a whole bunch more because you compress space and time.
[01:39:22]  So, by the time you get back, everybody's much older, as we had just talked about.
[01:39:27]  So, with the curvature of space time, his 1915 paper, very early.
[01:39:30]  Soon after he published that, there were solutions to the field equations he published that showed with the rotation of a highly massive andor energetic, at first it was a universe or the Earth initially, just any sort of massive spinning body.
[01:39:46]  Lenz and Theorien, I think in 1918, demonstrated, and it's pretty common if you put like a bowling ball in oil or molasses and spin it, the oil and molasses start spinning with it.
[01:39:56]  So it's that rotational energy that can create what's called closed time light curves, it can bend over light cones.
[01:40:04]  And a good way of thinking of light cones is if you turn on a flashlight, you just flip it on real fast, turn it off.
[01:40:11]  The light can only move out in this direction.
[01:40:13]  Nothing can move faster than light.
[01:40:14]  So anything within that light cone is moving with it.
[01:40:17]  So it's always going from past to future.
[01:40:20]  However, with this rotational energy, which Lenz and Thuring showed in 1918, then Godel showed with a rotating universe essentially, that that creates the same tipping over of light cones.
[01:40:33]  So when you tip over the light cones and they go far enough, now, The past is also at play.
[01:40:39]  Like you're still moving forward, you're still obeying the laws of physics, but you're able to move into the past.
[01:40:45]  Carry that forward.
[01:40:47]  Van Stockham in the 1950s, I think.
[01:40:51]  And then importantly, Frank Tipler in the 1970s showed that if you shrink down this galaxy, essentially, but an infinite galaxy is what Van Stockham and Godel had argued, that you need this infinite mass.
[01:41:04]  Tipler showed if you shrink that down to a ring, sphere, or importantly, a disk of finite size.
[01:41:11]  You can create that same warpage of space time and the same bending over of light cones in order to travel into the past.
[01:41:18]  And this is why I say that form follows function, because that's essentially what a UFO looks like the cylindrical, disc shaped UFOs.
[01:41:26]  It's this rapidly spinning disc that seemingly can manipulate space time.
[01:41:31]  So, even beyond that, in my second book, I tie in a number of cases where space and time is manipulated.
[01:41:39]  You have Corporal Armando Valdez in 1977.
[01:41:42]  He walks in the proximity of this craft.
[01:41:44]  He's gone for 15 minutes based on what his men see.
[01:41:48]  So, the different reference frames.
[01:41:50]  When he emerges, he's weak.
[01:41:52]  He's got a beard and his watch reads five days in the future.
[01:41:56]  So, for him, he was gone five days.
[01:41:58]  To his men, he was gone 15 minutes.
[01:42:00]  And there's case after case like that.
[01:42:02]  And I try to highlight a number of them in the extra tempestuous model because it demonstrates that what is happening, these things might be time machines themselves, that they're able to manipulate space time.
[01:42:13]  If things like that are happening and they're in control of it, What's keeping them from going back into the past?
[01:42:19]  And, you know, based on the Fermi paradox, he famously said, if there's all these aliens, where are they?
[01:42:24]  This potentially helps explain it that we are seeing future humans, that if they are going into the past, why don't we see them?
[01:42:31]  I think we are, and I think they're inside the UFOs.
[01:42:36]  Whoa.
[01:42:39]  So the people that go on board these crafts, they can somehow, who's ever manipulating them, they can somehow make time stand still?
[01:42:49]  Or they can somehow, or no, they don't make time stand still, but they're.
[01:42:53]  I don't understand why time would move faster.
[01:42:58]  Like, where are they going?
[01:43:00]  I think what's happening is that inside the craft, everything is extremely normal.
[01:43:06]  Everything feels normal.
[01:43:07]  Right.
[01:43:08]  Time moves as you would experience now at the speed of life, you could say.
[01:43:13]  But there's this, what Jim Peniston called a sphere of influence around it.
[01:43:17]  When he went and approached the craft in the Rendlesham Forest in 1980, All of a sudden, he's described as walking through water.
[01:43:24]  Like everything was different.
[01:43:26]  He felt like his movements were more labored and time was moving differently.
[01:43:31]  It's seemingly what's happening is that there is this sphere of influence, and Corporal Armando Valdez crossed it.
[01:43:38]  He walked into that sphere of influence.
[01:43:40]  Time, he disappeared because if you, I think in my, no, that was my first book, sorry.
[01:43:45]  I think once he crossed that, you would expect him to disappear.
[01:43:50]  In the same way that these UFOs pop in and out of existence, they appear and disappear.
[01:43:54]  And to go back to something that, I accidentally skipped over earlier when we were talking about the superhighway, how NASA says it's incredibly quiet in space.
[01:44:02]  Yeah.
[01:44:02]  Steve Mara, a UFO researcher in the UK, pointed out why is that?
[01:44:08]  You know, what does that mean?
[01:44:10]  We would expect to see the superhighway.
[01:44:12]  They're constantly coming and going from outer space if they're from outer space.
[01:44:16]  But what we actually see is them popping in and out of our four dimensional frame of reference, which is exactly what you'd expect to see of a time machine.
[01:44:24]  It would appear and disappear.
[01:44:25]  As it moves into the future or past.
[01:44:28]  And that's the same thing that seems to be happening here.
[01:44:30]  And as it was pointed out to me after I published my first book by someone who claimed to be an intelligence agent, who was really concerned that I understand what he was saying.
[01:44:39]  He wrote me the first time, I was like, oh, that's cool.
[01:44:41]  And he could tell I didn't understand what the hell he was talking about.
[01:44:44]  Wrote me again, like, no, I really think you need to hear what I'm saying.
[01:44:48]  But what he pointed out, which seemed very obvious once he said it, is that when we see these craft doing these right angle turns, it Tens of thousands of miles an hour.
[01:45:01]  The g forces would be five to 10,000 g's.
[01:45:04]  Nothing could survive that.
[01:45:06]  But what he pointed out to me is that the way in which they're manipulating space time just creates the illusion of them moving that fast and that they use this speed to mask themselves.
[01:45:17]  They slow everything down, speed up their frame of reference as we perceive it in order to do these things.
[01:45:23]  So that 90 degree turn may be 1g to them, but because of the manipulation of space time and these different reference frames.
[01:45:30]  Inside that sphere of influence for them versus outside of it for us.
[01:45:35]  We see this as some incredible maneuver that would squash anything inside, when in fact that's just a perception differential.
[01:45:43]  It's a difference in the way we perceive what's happening versus how they perceive it because they manipulate space, time, and and around these craft.
[01:45:52]  Okay.
[01:45:52]  That's not my information.
[01:45:53]  That was given to me by someone who claims to be an ex intelligence officer.
[01:45:58]  Somebody that just emailed you out of the blue?
[01:46:00]  Yeah, but it makes a lot of damn sense.
[01:46:02]  It makes perfect sense.
[01:46:04]  And if we slow it down, there are so many cases where something will zip across the sky.
[01:46:07]  You slow it down and you can see the craft.
[01:46:09]  Doing this.
[01:46:11]  And they might use it to protect themselves too.
[01:46:13]  If we start shooting at them, these bullets, which seemingly are going 700 miles an hour, 1,000 miles an hour to us, they're like, oh, we should probably move over here because they're shooting at us again.
[01:46:23]  So it just makes a lot of sense.
[01:46:25]  Yeah, you know, that's also, it was described, I think, with Fravor, right?
[01:46:28]  He said that the thing showed up at his cat point or whatever.
[01:46:32]  They knew the future.
[01:46:33]  Yeah.
[01:46:35]  Yeah, that's an interesting one, Tim.
[01:46:38]  Is it kind of like that one Quicksilver scene in X Men?
[01:46:42]  I haven't seen that either.
[01:46:45]  I'm more of a Marvel fan.
[01:46:46]  Let's watch it and get this episode copywritten.
[01:46:52]  Just don't show it on the screen.
[01:46:53]  Yeah.
[01:46:54]  Is it the same with video if you show less than 15 seconds and you don't have to get the rates?
[01:46:59]  I don't know.
[01:47:00]  Usually, if you show anything.
[01:47:01]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:47:02]  Or like The Matrix, too, you know, when he's dodging the bullets, he just slows time down.
[01:47:09]  Yeah.
[01:47:10]  That's a perfect metaphor, Steve.
[01:47:12]  Exactly.
[01:47:14]  That's okay, so that's what he's claiming.
[01:47:15]  And as soon as he said that, I was like, Jesus, yeah, that makes so much sense.
[01:47:18]  And I included that in my second book because I thought it was highly relevant to this conversation.
[01:47:27]  And if they're time travelers, they absolutely have the ability to do this, you know, in whatever capacity they want.
[01:47:33]  And I list the case of Linda Jones where she's running and the grass is growing at like four or six feet all around her as she's running.
[01:47:41]  Um, you have a study that was done where Travis Walton was abducted and the trees in the vicinity of where he was taken.
[01:47:47]  Grew 20 times faster than the trees just outside of that circle.
[01:47:52]  So, again, inside the craft, once you cross over that threshold, I think everything is how they perceive time, but there's this disconnect between their reference frame and our own.
[01:48:03]  Hmm.
[01:48:04]  And Travis Walton, also, when he came, when he finally got found out, when he came back, it was like a couple days later, he had like a beard grown out and his watch showed.
[01:48:13]  That one could be that he was just gone that long.
[01:48:16]  It was also about five days, I think.
[01:48:18]  On Earth, yeah, Earth time, yeah, because he was in a bad state, like he sees it as an ambulance call, basically.
[01:48:24]  Like they zapped him good unintentionally.
[01:48:27]  And interestingly, the case with Mike and Leo Dwarshak in South Dakota, North Dakota, I forget which, um, they specifically said, We need to ground the ship before you touch it because they're little boys, they want to be like, Oh, what's this?
[01:48:39]  Can I touch it?
[01:48:40]  And they were like, All right, but yeah, we need to ground it first, really, yeah.
[01:48:43]  And then Travis just ran up on it, he's like, Oh, a UFO, so he ran up on it, got zapped by this electromagnetic discharge, and you When he woke up, there were these two little grays around him, and he's had all this medical equipment on him.
[01:48:55]  So, seemingly, he had sort of an emergency room visit based on what happened.
[01:49:01]  It would take time to heal.
[01:49:02]  So, I don't know if that was a manipulation space time.
[01:49:06]  I think he was just gone that long.
[01:49:07]  But one of the last cases in the book, which you'll probably remember if you just read it, was the one of Amy Rylance in, I think, Gundia, Australia.

=== Amy Rylance Case in Australia (05:01) ===

[01:49:17]  Oh, yeah.
[01:49:18]  Where she was gone for what she claims was a week, seven days in the presence of this man.
[01:49:23]  She doesn't call him an alien.
[01:49:24]  She calls him a man.
[01:49:26]  And there was a witness to this one, though.
[01:49:27]  There was a witness.
[01:49:28]  Her friend Petra came out because there was a storm.
[01:49:31]  It woke her up.
[01:49:32]  She sees Amy being taken out through the window into this large cylindrical disc shaped craft and disappears, freaks out.
[01:49:42]  Husband wakes up, freaks out, starts running around.
[01:49:44]  Where'd she go?
[01:49:45]  Abducted by aliens, whatever.
[01:49:47]  Not the case.
[01:49:48]  Eventually, he's like, seriously, where'd she go?
[01:49:51]  And yeah, they call the cops.
[01:49:54]  And this is an interesting one for a couple of reasons.
[01:49:58]  I'll finish the story and then I'll try to backtrack into why I find it fascinating.
[01:50:02]  But she ended up, About 790 kilometers away in McKay, an hour and a half after she was taken.
[01:50:13]  So, what that indicates to me is that, and they told her, we're going to drop you off somewhere different.
[01:50:18]  We're going to put you somewhere else because we can't go back to the original place we took you.
[01:50:22]  There's cops everywhere.
[01:50:24]  Right.
[01:50:24]  But they did drop her off closer to the time at which she was taken.
[01:50:29]  And I think because her husband and friend were freaking out, like it almost seems like an empathetic.
[01:50:36]  Nice thing to do.
[01:50:37]  You know, if she was gone for seven days, they have the ability to travel back in time.
[01:50:42]  They didn't drop her off seven days after they were done hanging out with her or doing whatever they were doing.
[01:50:46]  They took her back to an hour and a half after she was taken to drop her off closer to that moment in time.
[01:50:55]  Yeah, that's wild, man.
[01:50:58]  This, it seems like the most compelling explanation for what these things are.
[01:51:04]  And, you know, the other weird thing is like why I asked Whitley this too, but.
[01:51:08]  Like it seems like this stuff stopped happening after the 90s.
[01:51:12]  Like nobody else, like the stuff people stopped reporting these encounters.
[01:51:16]  The hybrid stuff for sure.
[01:51:17]  And I think he even says that it's part of their sort of gene harvesting program.
[01:51:25]  And maybe that's part of some contract.
[01:51:27]  I used to think it sounded crazy.
[01:51:29]  And then after Grush came out and people talking about the Eisenhower meetings and all this stuff, if you get enough of these in your brain, you can't not think about them.
[01:51:39]  Or try to put the pieces together, try to find patterns.
[01:51:42]  Yes.
[01:51:42]  And essentially, with that one, you know, and hearing Whitley talk about it too, there seems to have been some sort of agreement.
[01:51:49]  I understand this sounds insane, but there seems to have been some sort of agreement where they needed our genetic material, maybe because of the things we talked about earlier, who knows.
[01:51:59]  But there was a period of time in which they did it, seemingly from like the 70s to the early 90s.
[01:52:07]  Maybe even to the early 2000s?
[01:52:08]  Yeah, that's what Whitley says.
[01:52:09]  He thinks it ended.
[01:52:10]  I mean, who knows?
[01:52:11]  Right.
[01:52:12]  But he thinks it ended in the early oddies.
[01:52:15]  But one has to also wonder, if you take that little bit of evidence, if we can count it as that, obviously the standards of evidence don't apply to anything that we're talking about.
[01:52:26]  But if we can take that data point, let's say, and look at it in the context of what people also feel is an impending cataclysm or some sort of massive shift that will affect all of humanity, are they trying to get as much genetic material as they can?
[01:52:43]  While it still exists, before that bottleneck occurs, that scares the shit out of me, to tell you the truth.
[01:52:52]  Because why focus on that period?
[01:52:54]  What is it about our genes now?
[01:52:56]  And a lot of Native Americans, too, a ton of Native Americans have these sorts of interactions, and they have more wild type genes than a lot of people from other parts of the world that have been sailing around and are breeding with other groups for a long time.
[01:53:08]  Yeah, they're like wolves compared to us.
[01:53:10]  And Australian Aborigines, too.
[01:53:12]  If you look at a lateral radiograph, Of an Australian Aboriginal.
[01:53:14]  What's a lateral radiograph?
[01:53:16]  A side view of an X ray.
[01:53:18]  Okay.
[01:53:19]  If you look at their skulls from the side in an X ray, they're very, very similar to Homo erectus, which makes sense.
[01:53:26]  Genetic isolation on that island.
[01:53:28]  They didn't go on to interbreed with a lot of other groups and places that were developing derived characteristics.
[01:53:34]  That's why we have egg laying mammals on that side of the Wallace zone.
[01:53:42]  Yeah.
[01:53:42]  And it's interesting because those genes would naturally be more important in the context of diversity because they're untouched.
[01:53:51]  They're more pure, I guess, in the sense that if you're coming back through time to get genetic material, To help diversify your gene pool in the future, solve genetic problems, those indigenous populations all throughout the Americas and other places, sub Saharan Africa, Australia, New Zealand, those may be of even greater import.
[01:54:10]  And you do find story after story in the cultural lore of these various groups.
[01:54:18]  Yes.

=== Reshaping Religion with Time Travelers (03:18) ===

[01:54:19]  And how do we also not know that they continue to do this in the future too?
[01:54:23]  Like just because they stopped in the 2000s, maybe they took like a 20 year break and then started doing it again.
[01:54:28]  In like the 2030s or something.
[01:54:30]  I mean, you definitely don't hear about it as much anymore.
[01:54:32]  You definitely don't hear about it as much anymore.
[01:54:33]  And that's all we have.
[01:54:34]  I mean, it's not like someone's out there with a video camera recording these.
[01:54:37]  So, all we really have is people's accounts.
[01:54:40]  And honestly, yeah, it does seem like it fell off in the zeros.
[01:54:46]  The whole narrative in the UFO community or the government or whatever it is, it seems to be like a very big push to people want to conflate these things with angels and demons and the Bible.
[01:54:59]  Sure.
[01:55:01]  I like, I seem to agree with what Giorgiani said about that is that if we were to make this, whatever it is, publicly known, society or whoever in charge of society,
[01:55:17]  the United States government, would want to put something in place that would bolster Christianity or sort of reinforce Christianity in the case that if some sort of crazy technological thing would become known to the world, that it could.
[01:55:33]  Have the potential to destroy religion.
[01:55:35]  Yeah.
[01:55:37]  Well, maybe not destroy it so much as reshape it or allow people different avenues which they can use to think about it.
[01:55:45]  I mean, that again was probably the biggest theme in this most recent book I wrote.
[01:55:50]  And the reason I did it as a science fiction novel, satirical one at that, is to explore some of these things you just can't talk about in a grounded scientific publication.
[01:56:02]  But I feel like that's going to be the next big issue is religion.
[01:56:06]  It shapes so much of the day to day life of so many people.
[01:56:10]  It structures life, it structures their behaviors, activities on a regular basis, the way they see themselves in this world, interacting with others, where you come from, where you go when you die.
[01:56:20]  All of these big questions are answered by that.
[01:56:23]  If you have something come out that indicates that much of what you believe grew out of these very tangible things that existed in the past and potentially came from the future, how is that going to force you to reshape your conceptualization of reality?
[01:56:39]  For a lot of people, it won't matter because religion is a belief.
[01:56:43]  That's all it is.
[01:56:43]  It doesn't matter.
[01:56:44]  You can say, yeah, your religion, everything you believe in, Jesus was a time traveler.
[01:56:49]  He was paranormal because he had the ability to do these things technologically and consciously and spiritually.
[01:56:54]  Well, it won't matter because faith is faith.
[01:56:57]  It'll bend, but it won't break.
[01:57:00]  However, with a lot of people, especially the younger generations that have more open minds to science and different explanations for things, it may.
[01:57:10]  Eliminate a lot of those worldviews that over time will eliminate the entire religion simply because those that ardently adhere to it die out.
[01:57:22]  And we see this all the time.
[01:57:23]  Very normal process, but it might be a line in the sand that helps reshape the way we have historically looked at our place in the universe in a spiritual capacity.

=== NASA Moon Caves Discovery News (14:43) ===

[01:57:37]  Yeah, did any of the guys who experienced these things ever see any like crosses on the spaceships or inside the spaceships or any like pictures of Jesus?
[01:57:44]  Not that I'm aware of, no.
[01:57:47]  That would be interesting though if there were different factions.
[01:57:50]  Do you think the ones that created Jesus were like real big into their?
[01:57:55]  Their achievements and what they did.
[01:57:57]  Do you think that the human timeline has been linear as far as evolution goes?
[01:58:01]  Or do you think it's potential that there was a more advanced human civilization that got wiped out by a cataclysm?
[01:58:09]  No, there's no evidence for that.
[01:58:12]  And it just wouldn't make sense in the fossil record.
[01:58:15]  It wouldn't make sense with the process of evolutionary change.
[01:58:19]  You go back six million years into the past to our earliest ancestors, they were just starting to stand upright.
[01:58:28]  They didn't.
[01:58:29]  Have any of the same traits we had and wouldn't for another four million years.
[01:58:36]  Just nothing really happened in that period.
[01:58:38]  What we were mostly doing was adapting to becoming bipedal.
[01:58:41]  We stood upright around the time of Lucy, three and a half million years ago, Australopithecus afarensis.
[01:58:47]  We see her pelvic morphology looks pretty modern.
[01:58:50]  The head still looks like a chimpanzee.
[01:58:53]  And it would be like that all the way up until about 800,000 years ago when really our brains started taking off, our faces started shrinking.
[01:59:01]  Came back, the fire, the biocultural evolution, the tools like I was talking about earlier.
[01:59:05]  So, if there was any sort of chance that that could happen, it would have to be within that window, 800,000 years to present.
[01:59:15]  But it's still one line, you know, and people talk about, well, what if there was like the Solarian hypothesis?
[01:59:21]  What if there was some advanced civilization there wiped out?
[01:59:24]  Where would they have come from?
[01:59:25]  We're the only ones that can even talk about this stuff.
[01:59:27]  We're the only ones that would have done that.
[01:59:29]  And we didn't even have the capacity to until the last.
[01:59:32]  100 or 200 years.
[01:59:34]  It's happening a lot faster, but it's all very recent.
[01:59:36]  There's no physiological evidence in the hominid lineage.
[01:59:40]  And more importantly, there's no archaeological evidence that anything ever existed that would suggest a civilization had that capability.
[01:59:48]  And look at what we do.
[01:59:49]  Look at how successful we are.
[01:59:50]  We exist on every part of this planet.
[01:59:52]  We erect these massive structures, skyscrapers, these monuments.
[01:59:56]  Once you have civilization, you get those.
[01:59:59]  You get public works projects.
[02:00:00]  You get these features, as we call them.
[02:00:03]  Those would appear And be highly prolific throughout the world with any advanced civilization.
[02:00:08]  Because we don't see those, there's no indication that they ever existed or there's a population that could ever leave Earth in our hominin past up until the 1960s.
[02:00:18]  What about the evidence that has been, I think, I've had a few people talking about this recently on the podcast, but there's been, there were newspaper articles that were coming out in like the, I want to say it was like the late 1800s, early 1900s.
[02:00:35]  Of giants that were discovered that were dug up in like New Mexico area.
[02:00:41]  And there was actually, I think this was in like the New York Times.
[02:00:44]  Steve, can you pull up the newspaper articles of giant skeletons?
[02:00:52]  The stuff that Prireen was talking about.
[02:00:55]  Yeah, like click on any one of these.
[02:00:57]  Like giant skeletons 10 to 12 feet tall found in Mexican caves, Mexico City, June.
[02:01:03]  Does it say the year this was?
[02:01:04]  There's a better one.
[02:01:07]  Indians are rising out of the ledge.
[02:01:10]  Strange skeletons found.
[02:01:11]  And that's so zoom in on that.
[02:01:13]  It says New York Times, and it says like April 5th.
[02:01:16]  What?
[02:01:16]  What's the date?
[02:01:17]  Punch in, punch in, punch in.
[02:01:20]  Son of a bitch.
[02:01:21]  What does that say?
[02:01:22]  1886?
[02:01:24]  1886.
[02:01:25]  Okay.
[02:01:26]  Seven foot eight.
[02:01:27]  Eight's pretty big.
[02:01:28]  They declared they have found bones of giant 32 feet, bones of giant 32 feet high in Mexico City.
[02:01:35]  Mexico City.
[02:01:37]  Yeah.
[02:01:37]  I mean, there's just like, like, we don't, we, according to this, there are evidence of like giants that, you know, maybe could explain building the pyramids, but were they intelligent enough?
[02:01:47]  And like, like, how would people four or 5,000 years ago be able to create some of the things like that we do have evidence for, like these?
[02:01:55]  I don't know if you've ever seen these, but there's these dynastic Egyptian vases.
[02:01:59]  These are made of like, this is a 3D print of one.
[02:02:02]  But I had a guy who came in who brought in like 40 of them, and they're made of granite.
[02:02:07]  And they brought them into an aerospace, the aerospace division of Rolls Royce, I believe, where they have these light scanning machines where they can essentially like measure them down to like the one millionth of a centimeter.
[02:02:22]  And they found out that they are perfectly symmetrical within one, like, The variation of the width of a human hair.
[02:02:32]  Wow.
[02:02:32]  And they're made out of one of the hardest stones on earth.
[02:02:36]  And these handles, like not only that, but these handles are built into them.
[02:02:39]  And today, if we wanted to recreate that, it would have to be created on like a CNC machine, like a very advanced computer modeling machine.
[02:02:51]  And the hundreds and thousands of these have been found.
[02:02:54]  And there's no explanation.
[02:02:56]  Like it's absolutely impossible for this to be done with chisels, you know, copper chisels and pounding stones.
[02:03:02]  Is there a date?
[02:03:03]  Associated with them?
[02:03:05]  What is the date?
[02:03:07]  I think it was 2000 2400 BC.
[02:03:11]  Yeah, it's hard.
[02:03:11]  Like, I went on Ancient Aliens a few times, reluctantly at first.
[02:03:15]  Did you really?
[02:03:16]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:03:17]  I've been on five different episodes, maybe three different shoots.
[02:03:20]  But I was reluctant because they're sort of your quintessential aliens built everything.
[02:03:27]  And we really pull back from that as anthropologists because it's also innately racist because it's never European sites.
[02:03:35]  That we say that about.
[02:03:36]  We assume the Europeans at that time could build those things, but well, these browner people must have had help in Egypt or Central America or wherever.
[02:03:46]  But even beyond that, we do have a good sense of how they would make these things.
[02:03:50]  And once you relieve people of the burdens of agriculture, because the agricultural surplus allows people to do things that doesn't mean they have to toil in the field all day, then they have the ability to spend their day doing whatever it is.
[02:04:02]  If you're enslaving thousands of people because your agricultural society was able to take over theirs and force them into slavery, You can use those people to do the manual labor to build these things.
[02:04:13]  So we can understand how they did it.
[02:04:15]  We don't need to alien the gaps the same way we got the gaps with everything else.
[02:04:19]  We don't have to do that because we can see how they did it and understand these massive public works projects as being a latent effect of agriculture.
[02:04:27]  That's what I'm saying.
[02:04:28]  It like wouldn't it be possible that instead of dating the creation of these and the pyramids to 4000 BC, wouldn't it be more reasonable than claiming it aliens saying that maybe it was like advanced humans before some sort of cataclysm that maybe like wiped them out and had to force us to reset?
[02:04:50]  No, that's something I can get on board with.
[02:04:51]  In fact, I made that argument at a lecture I gave in Phoenix last May, May and a half.
[02:04:59]  It's a weird way of saying that.
[02:05:00]  The May before this one.
[02:05:01]  The previous May.
[02:05:02]  I don't know why I'm giving you seven different versions of which May this was.
[02:05:07]  It's not relevant.
[02:05:09]  Maybe we could edit that part out too.
[02:05:13]  In any case, I looked at this in the context of kind of what we're talking about the Solarian hypothesis that there are out of place artifacts that seemingly indicate that this thing was produced by a more advanced species than was alive at that time.
[02:05:27]  Not that they built the pyramids or anything.
[02:05:29]  But what I argued is that you could have the same line of evolution in our technology from simple to complex.
[02:05:36]  Where it goes on into the future, and we start making things that, if found in our past, would confuse the hell out of us.
[02:05:45]  But that would only happen with backward time travel technology.
[02:05:48]  So it's the same process of descent with modification.
[02:05:52]  We, in culture, we talk about how it's cumulative, it's always built on what came before.
[02:05:57]  Even our languages that we speak, like that semantic drift thing, it's built on the evolution of language, and we can look at what came before and how it changed.
[02:06:05]  Same thing with technology.
[02:06:07]  We go from simple to complex, and this.
[02:06:10]  Evolution of compounding cultural complexity.
[02:06:13]  But with a backward time machine, if you jump over, now you take that more advanced technology and the artifacts that you produce, and they exist in the past.
[02:06:22]  And even things like Atlantis, if you can imagine that we do nuke this planet, or there's just, it's inhospitable, but we go on to exist in the future, we have the ability to go back in the past and set up shop at a time that predates the underwater.
[02:06:38]  Not just that, we could hide underwater, we could hide in mountains, or we could hide in plain sight.
[02:06:42]  If it's before 70,000 years ago, because humans didn't invent boats until 70,000 years ago, you could have this island all to yourself and know nobody's going to find it because they don't have the technology to do so.
[02:06:55]  So I think that could even help explain these ideas of Atlantis, these lost civilizations.
[02:07:00]  It wasn't some offshoot, but it was potentially humans from the future.
[02:07:03]  And this is a reoccurring theme in the Revelation book, too.
[02:07:07]  Humans from the future that have the option to live in whatever pristine Garden of Eden they would like on this planet.
[02:07:13]  Planet in a place prior to humans having the ability to discover it at that time.
[02:07:18]  Right.
[02:07:18]  Like right now, they could live in Antarctica if they wanted to.
[02:07:21]  Yeah.
[02:07:21]  I mean, we're there.
[02:07:22]  We check it out occasionally, but there's so much left.
[02:07:25]  And yeah, maybe they're doing it in our time.
[02:07:26]  And maybe these USOs, the underwater bases, these crypto terrestrials that we've explored more of the moon than we have of our own oceans.
[02:07:32]  So they could easily.
[02:07:33]  The far side of the moon would be a good opportunity too, up until the 1960s when we started going there.
[02:07:39]  So it's kind of the same thing as I was saying 70,000 years ago before boats.
[02:07:42]  Moon would have been a perfect option.
[02:07:45]  Up until the late 1960s.
[02:07:47]  And even then, it's really weird what happened with the moon.
[02:07:49]  Like us and the Russians are working together, which is weird unto itself during the Cold War.
[02:07:53]  No, back in the 60s.
[02:07:55]  Like they had their missions, we had our missions.
[02:07:57]  And there were these ideas about populating it.
[02:07:59]  We're going to go there and make these bases.
[02:08:02]  And all of a sudden, we're like, nah, we don't want to go there anymore.
[02:08:05]  Why is that?
[02:08:06]  You know, what's happening on the moon and the far side of the moon, especially?
[02:08:10]  Like it'd be such a great place to build a base.
[02:08:13]  If you were extraterrestrial, you know, future humans, whatever, nobody's going to find you there.
[02:08:19]  And even if they do, it's a select group of individuals who you could convince to just PR campaign the hell out of that so nobody wants to talk about it anymore.
[02:08:27]  Because that's exactly what happened.
[02:08:29]  All of a sudden, they reversed the direction, and nobody's talking about these moon bases anymore.
[02:08:35]  Populating the moon, it was like, do you think the moon, do you think we really went to the moon?
[02:08:38]  Yeah, I do.
[02:08:39]  Yeah, me too.
[02:08:41]  We definitely went to the moon.
[02:08:41]  It's just what did they find up there?
[02:08:43]  Yes.
[02:08:44]  That's what piques my interest.
[02:08:45]  And then you look at Ingo Swan and his penetration book.
[02:08:48]  He remote viewed it.
[02:08:49]  Case after case of other abductees.
[02:08:51]  I read one called, like, Abducted in the Latin Quarter by this woman that just sent me this book about her abduction experience.
[02:08:57]  She was standing in this base.
[02:08:59]  Crater in the moon with this woman who was telepathically communicating with her looking down at this base.
[02:09:07]  Terry Lovelace claims to have seen this.
[02:09:09]  This guy named Jerry Wills was taken up to this moon base and shown it and then brought back.
[02:09:14]  He's like, What was the point of that?
[02:09:15]  So I just want to show you that.
[02:09:17]  You see enough of these, you start to ask questions.
[02:09:20]  There was a guy who I had on the show who said that he was contacted and visited by a guy who worked for NASA for like decades and he claimed to be like the expert in mapping the moon for the moon missions.
[02:09:31]  This guy was really old.
[02:09:31]  I think, I forget his name.
[02:09:37]  I can't think of his name right now.
[02:09:40]  But he wrote a couple books about the moon.
[02:09:42]  But his job essentially was to basically map out where they were going to go during those missions, during the Apollo missions, and how to navigate it and avoid it.
[02:09:49]  Seems important.
[02:09:50]  You don't want to crash into a rock somewhere or crater.
[02:09:53]  Right.
[02:09:53]  And he allegedly told this guy, Chris Bledsoe, who was on my podcast, that there were ancient structures on the moon, like mushroom shaped structures that were ancient.
[02:10:06]  And he's claimed to know like a thing.
[02:10:08]  There's so many weird, interesting theories about the moon.
[02:10:11]  You know, it's crazy.
[02:10:13]  Apparently, like the moon, our moon is like the one moon that is perfectly placed, perfectly shaped to keep us in like the perfect gravitational balance to maintain life.
[02:10:24]  And apparently, that's the only moon that exists that we know of that's that perfect.
[02:10:28]  Yeah, what it does for our tides itself and taking a lot of the brunt of the asteroid impacts.
[02:10:34]  Yeah.
[02:10:36]  And it's, I've heard it's cheese.
[02:10:37]  Also, yeah, delicious cheese.
[02:10:39]  Well, I have heard that it's honeycombed on the inside too.
[02:10:41]  Um, there's the hollow moon theory.
[02:10:44]  Well, yeah, hollow moon honeycomb, honeycomb, it could be the same.
[02:10:47]  But there was actually like a NASA thing that came out recently, which I think I've talked about in like fucking 10 podcasts already in the last month that said that they found uh deep caves on the moon.
[02:10:58]  I've heard that, yeah, I heard that too.
[02:11:00]  And there's water, we're always told there's no atmosphere, there's no water as a fleeting atmosphere that will form and deform.
[02:11:07]  Yeah, I was watching on Stephen Colbert one night the group of people.
[02:11:11]  I forget what they're calling the mission, but they're going to go to the moon and they're going to use this jumping off point to go to Mars and they're getting water.
[02:11:19]  And it's like, well, they told us for so long there's no water on the moon.
[02:11:22]  There's no atmosphere.
[02:11:23]  It's just this dead nothingness.
[02:11:25]  Right.
[02:11:26]  I don't know.
[02:11:26]  Like, I'm not big into conspiracy theories, but other than the cheese moon thing, I'm kind of starting to ask some questions.
[02:11:36]  There's a.
[02:11:37]  So.
[02:11:38]  Is that a real photo right there?
[02:11:40]  No, I know the one in the middle is definitely not real, but the one on the right and the left, is that a real lava tube on the moon?
[02:11:45]  It says lunar lava tube, Wikipedia.
[02:11:47]  Lunar lava tube.
[02:11:49]  Apparently that's what it is.
[02:11:50]  Click on the actual link so we can see the Wikipedia.
[02:11:53]  Lunar lava tubes are lava tubes on the moon formed during the eruption of basaltic lava flows when the surface of a lava flow cools.
[02:12:03]  Oh, so there was lava on the moon.
[02:12:04]  Yeah, it's interesting.
[02:12:05]  Something that small could have tectonic activity and 100 meters deep.
[02:12:10]  Lava.
[02:12:11]  100 meters deep.
[02:12:12]  That's what this one is.
[02:12:14]  100 meters.
[02:12:15]  Jesus Christ.
[02:12:19]  Yeah.
[02:12:19]  I don't know.

=== Lunar Lava Tube Depth Details (08:40) ===

[02:12:20]  A lot of questions.
[02:12:20]  I did bet some kid at a party one time that within, we bet 20 bucks, had some people notarize it who are watching our insane conversation.
[02:12:31]  A normie, you know, not into the UFO stuff at all.
[02:12:33]  But I bet him 20 bucks that within 10 years, we would have, we would know as a society that there is and has been a moon on the base.
[02:12:44]  That's how convinced I am.
[02:12:45]  A base on the moon?
[02:12:46]  Far side.
[02:12:46]  Far side of the moon.
[02:12:47]  Yeah.
[02:12:47]  Yeah.
[02:12:47]  I think that's likely.
[02:12:48]  I think so too.
[02:12:51]  I also added an addendum for another $20 that it's the Air Force they're involved.
[02:12:55]  Somehow, yeah, it has to be airport or air force or um space force in or uh NRO.
[02:13:02]  What's that one?
[02:13:03]  Um, the National Reconnaissance Office.
[02:13:05]  There's like we think of like the three letter agents, funny.
[02:13:07]  Like Annie Jacobson pointed this out.
[02:13:09]  There's like 18 or 20 three letter agencies, intelligence agencies that we don't even know about.
[02:13:14]  Speaking of that scared the hell out of you, that interview scared the hell out of me.
[02:13:19]  Which one with uh Jacobson, Annie?
[02:13:22]  Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, that was intense.
[02:13:25]  Yeah, especially in the context of all the stuff we've been talking about with the warnings that experiencers have, with like, yeah, no, it's all about me.
[02:13:35]  I took some preventative action, uh, after listening to that one for sure.
[02:13:39]  It's uh, did you buy a bunker?
[02:13:41]  No, I didn't buy a bunker, I can't afford a bunker.
[02:13:43]  Look at me, weird cheap clothes.
[02:13:46]  Um, and the billionaires dressed just like you.
[02:13:48]  What are you talking about?
[02:13:48]  I don't know about that, although the hoodie was in fashion for a while.
[02:13:52]  I've been rocking that one my whole life, so it was cool to see the billionaires wearing hoodies.
[02:13:58]  No, just, you know, like I live in a place that's already pretty well suited.
[02:14:03]  Yes, yes, you do.
[02:14:04]  I feel very fortunate about that.
[02:14:08]  Natural spring in the yard, animals everywhere.
[02:14:10]  Yes.
[02:14:11]  You live in a great place for an apocalypse.
[02:14:13]  Bring it on.
[02:14:14]  And a civil war.
[02:14:14]  You actually live in a great place for a civil war, too.
[02:14:17]  Yeah, no, but I don't want that for anyone.
[02:14:21]  It scares me, not necessarily for myself, but just what we would all have to suffer through.
[02:14:26]  And honestly, as destructive as this life is, And you multiply it out over the billions of people on this planet, it's relatively comfortable for most people.
[02:14:35]  You know, you don't have to worry about walking outside and getting shot by a sniper up on a hill who's hoping to get whatever little rations you have.
[02:14:42]  We want our children to grow up with the same luxuries and amenities that we had and grew accustomed to.
[02:14:48]  And we don't want people to die.
[02:14:49]  Like if people started dying by the millions, I think it would just do a lot to our collective psyche as humans, especially empathetic people.
[02:14:57]  It would just, it would be horrible, you know?
[02:14:59]  And if there is something coming and if we do emerge on the other side, Better a more benevolent, empathetic, highly conscious species great, but it would still suck to live through that, you know, yeah, yeah, it totally would.
[02:15:15]  Um, do you think if these things were future time travelers, do you think they would if there was like a nuclear war about to happen or if like Kim Jong Un was about to launch a nuke, they would come stop it?
[02:15:26]  Yeah, so where they let it happen, we kind of danced around this earlier.
[02:15:30]  Um, when you were like, why would they care?
[02:15:33]  You know, if they're extraterrestrials, why would they care?
[02:15:36]  Yes, leave them alone.
[02:15:37]  Yes.
[02:15:38]  You know, dance around with their nukes and blow each other up.
[02:15:41]  And actually, you know, J. Alan Hynek's son, Paul Hynek, I heard him say this a few times like, how would they find us and why would they care?
[02:15:50]  Those are two big questions we have to ask.
[02:15:53]  If they're extraterrestrial, how would they find us?
[02:15:55]  I talk about that a lot in my first book, just the difficulties of not just finding us, locating us, but then communicating with us too.
[02:16:01]  It'd be much easier to learn the languages of the past than it would of a planet that exists elsewhere and you're relying on radio transmissions, which are governed by the speed of light, would take.
[02:16:11]  you know, potentially light years to reach you.
[02:16:13]  How would they find us?
[02:16:14]  Why would they care?
[02:16:15]  But if they are stakeholders in the future, to your point earlier, why would they care?
[02:16:21]  It's their planet.
[02:16:22]  Of course, they would care because they have to live on it.
[02:16:24]  My editor made me take this out of my second book, but I think it's an apt analogy where it's like you're at a four day music festival.
[02:16:33]  It's day four.
[02:16:34]  They're not keeping up with the porta potties and you're the last guy in line.
[02:16:38]  That's them looking at us right now.
[02:16:41]  We are all the drunk people who have been eating bean burritos the entire festival, drinking Bush Light.
[02:16:48]  And about to destroy that bathroom, you know, and they see themselves at the end of that line looking at us like, oh, it's going to be a mess in there.
[02:16:55]  Yeah, I might as well just go off into the woods or kill them all and then take the bathroom before they destroy it, or let them kill themselves and then take the bathroom after they destroy it, or some other solution that does involve everybody dying.
[02:17:09]  I don't know.
[02:17:10]  I also don't know if they can save us if we did do that.
[02:17:14]  They certainly can't change the past if we're in a block universe.
[02:17:17]  I got into this in chapter 13 or case study 13 of my second book.
[02:17:21]  Maybe you.
[02:17:21]  You remember kind of going back and forth between Tempestrial, is the second book?
[02:17:25]  Yeah.
[02:17:25]  Okay.
[02:17:26]  Going back and forth between the Black Universe and the many worlds interpretation in the context of this very question the nukes getting launched.
[02:17:35]  What they did at Malmstrom, I was on a conference call with a number of people, but Robert Salas was one of them talking to our senator, John Tester's aides, about the importance of this UFO question, particularly because of what they did at Malmstrom.
[02:17:49]  And Robert Salas was there.
[02:17:51]  He was.
[02:17:51]  Is that where they had like an ICBM or something like that?
[02:17:54]  10 of them.
[02:17:55]  Go offline.
[02:17:56]  It started with one.
[02:17:57]  That's near you, right?
[02:17:58]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:17:58]  I gave a talk at Lewiston just outside of Malmstrom, and it was like there's so many people there, and they're so interested because they were directly affected by it.
[02:18:07]  They've been touched by the phenomenon.
[02:18:09]  So they know it's real more than a lot of people.
[02:18:12]  But what they did is they shut down, they took offline one of these ICBMs, deactivated it.
[02:18:18]  While this, I think he said it was red, like a red glowing sphere is outside, all of a sudden, boom, boom, boom, boom, the other nine go offline.
[02:18:26]  So they clearly.
[02:18:27]  We're doing that for a reason.
[02:18:29]  Was it to send a message to us?
[02:18:31]  Was it to demonstrate that they could, either for us or them?
[02:18:35]  So it might, the only way I could see this playing out, where they would, the scenario specifically is if they were to stop something, is if they did it as a preventative thing.
[02:18:45]  I think if it happens, it happens.
[02:18:47]  They can't come back and change it.
[02:18:49]  But if they saw us getting ready to launch, they might be able to intervene.
[02:18:54]  And they've demonstrated at Malmstrom, and we have changed our protocols.
[02:18:57]  Another friend of mine, Um, and Butte, he worked at Malmstrom to make everything analog because they thought if this happened again and nothing was digital, then they wouldn't be able to do it, which I think is interesting because they're if nothing was digital, yeah.
[02:19:12]  So, his job was to rewire everything.
[02:19:14]  Oh, they wouldn't be able to control it, yeah, so that they couldn't do what whatever it was that they did, um, initially.
[02:19:22]  So, I don't know, I think, and if you think about that, within a time, a linear time travel, like cause and effect, if they would do it, that would cause us to make everything analog so we could launch a new.
[02:19:33]  Yeah.
[02:19:34]  Like in the block universe.
[02:19:35]  In the block universe.
[02:19:37]  And would they know that?
[02:19:38]  Would they not know that?
[02:19:39]  I don't know.
[02:19:40]  There's so many questions that arise.
[02:19:41]  And I didn't give an answer in that case study where I just, here's what this would look like in the block universe.
[02:19:48]  Here's what it would look like in the multiverse with branching timelines.
[02:19:52]  Both are fundamentally different.
[02:19:53]  This last book, Revelation, I also do that again.
[02:19:58]  But in the context of this story, I call it peri apocalyptic.
[02:20:03]  It's not.
[02:20:04]  Pre apocalyptic, it's not post, it's both, but it's happening mostly at this time where they've got to decide are they intervening?
[02:20:10]  Are they not intervening?
[02:20:11]  And what does that mean for both us and them since they're set to inherit that earth that we may or may not destroy?
[02:20:18]  And I can't say what happens because it's kind of the big plot twist.
[02:20:23]  Yeah.
[02:20:24]  I mean, one of the things that Annie describes in her nuclear war book, which I don't think anybody knows unless they've read the book, was how fragile that the nuclear protocol is.
[02:20:32]  Yeah.
[02:20:32]  That was surprising, wasn't it?
[02:20:33]  Yeah.
[02:20:34]  Because we have all those NRO satellites and all the planes and submarines that are tracking everything around the whole NRO.
[02:20:41]  Wasn't it like three minutes or something?
[02:20:42]  Like if one goes up, there's three minutes to decide what you're going to do.
[02:20:45]  Yep.
[02:20:46]  And I think it's six minutes until the thing will hit.
[02:20:48]  If it launched in North Korea, I think it's like six minutes until it actually hit.
[02:20:52]  Or no, it was like 12 minutes until it hits us.
[02:20:55]  Yeah.
[02:20:55]  But it's like three minutes to actually make the decision on what to do.
[02:20:59]  That was the scary part.
[02:21:00]  Yeah.

=== Telepathic Voice Communication Break (14:53) ===

[02:21:01]  And it's like.
[02:21:02]  I mean, even the concept of mutual annihilation is just.
[02:21:07]  Really?
[02:21:07]  Yeah, the problem is, though, if a rocket, if an ICBM launches, we have to immediately.
[02:21:18]  Empty our nuclear silos, the ICBM silos that we have in the Midwest, because we have to assume that they're going to target those which are going to basically castrate us from having a return attack.
[02:21:28]  So those have to go up and then they have to fly over Russia and all these other countries that don't know.
[02:21:33]  We can't get them on the phone quick enough.
[02:21:35]  So it's almost like an inevitable apocalypse if even one rocket launches.
[02:21:41]  Yeah.
[02:21:42]  It feels very fragile considering what we're dealing with.
[02:21:46]  Yeah, that's the scariest part.
[02:21:49]  Um, You described that you were at some conference and something happened to you.
[02:21:54]  You had some sort of like crazy experience.
[02:21:56]  Yeah, there's been a lot of crazy experiences lately.
[02:21:59]  Because when you started writing about this, you had never had any kind of like.
[02:22:02]  I'd never even seen a UFO.
[02:22:04]  No, not at all.
[02:22:06]  Actually, well, other than when I walked into my living room at age eight or nine and saw that book.
[02:22:13]  Actually, it's funny.
[02:22:14]  Right.
[02:22:14]  You were in the communion book.
[02:22:15]  Yeah, when you and Eric were talking, Eric Wargo, you described, you guys were talking about.
[02:22:21]  Uh, precognition how a lot of people create things or do things because they feel compelled to do it, but a lot of that might be their information coming from the future, right?
[02:22:29]  And you described a situation that was almost exactly my life where it's like, Well, so you know, you might do something and then that information's traveling back, and so as a child, like you're compelled to do these things, and that's what I feel happened to me when I was eight or nine years old and I walked in because it wasn't just those images that popped in my head, it came with something that I've since experienced about three or four times.
[02:22:54]  That was sort of like a light, you know, and like a, I hate the word download, but I don't know what else to use.
[02:23:02]  There was information that came with that, that in retrospect, I framed it as precognition.
[02:23:12]  I eventually had to explain because I've had dream precognition my entire life, and I had to find a way to figure out what that was because it was weird.
[02:23:22]  I knew people before I met.
[02:23:24]  Them.
[02:23:24]  I knew what was going to happen in certain situations.
[02:23:26]  I knew my wife and my children before I met them.
[02:23:29]  The first time I saw my wife, I was like, wait, who's that?
[02:23:31]  I knew her already.
[02:23:32]  We would go on to spend our lives together and make children together and buy houses together.
[02:23:37]  And that's been a very common thing in my life.
[02:23:40]  But I've also had five moments of conscious precognition where, and one of them, ironically, was about a week before I was going down to be on a panel with Eric Wargo at the opening the archives of the impossible conference at Rice University, where My wife was taking the kids to the bus stop, big snowstorm, missed the bus, had to follow them to the next bus stop.
[02:24:01]  She goes to turn around in what looks like a flat area, but it was all drifted over by snow, sinks the car straight down in this massive ditch.
[02:24:09]  I didn't know any of this.
[02:24:10]  I pick up my phone.
[02:24:11]  I was like, oh, it's weird.
[02:24:12]  My wife hasn't called to pull me out of the ditch yet.
[02:24:15]  Instantly, the phone rings.
[02:24:17]  She's never gotten stuck in the snow.
[02:24:19]  She's never gotten stuck anywhere that I had to pull her out of.
[02:24:21]  But I knew before she called, she was calling me to do that.
[02:24:24]  I had to go to work too.
[02:24:26]  Normally, I probably would have been a little pissed.
[02:24:27]  Like, oh, I got to go.
[02:24:28]  You know, we spent like an hour trying to dig that thing out and pull it out with my truck.
[02:24:32]  But it was just like, oh, she hasn't called yet to go.
[02:24:35]  And then the phone rings, telling me the thing that I just thought.
[02:24:40]  It's weird she hasn't called me to do.
[02:24:42]  And that's happened four or five other times.
[02:24:44]  The thing as a kid, I feel was a precognitive moment.
[02:24:48]  It shaped my whole life to go on to do the things that we're talking about right now.
[02:24:54]  Would that have happened without that?
[02:24:55]  Probably not.
[02:24:56]  So there are these connected moments in life.
[02:24:58]  The one behind Morton Hall when I decided to switch from physics to biological anthropology, it seems like there are these things.
[02:25:05]  And there's actually this cool study being done.
[02:25:08]  I encourage any of your listeners to reach out.
[02:25:11]  I forget what it's called, like the Destiny Project or something like that.
[02:25:15]  It's Sharon Hewitt Rollette, who wrote, she was one of the runners up for the Bigelow Prize.
[02:25:23]  Oh, okay.
[02:25:23]  I don't know if you're aware of the million dollars that was allocated to give the best evidence.
[02:25:28]  I had a guy in here, I think, who won that.
[02:25:30]  Jeffrey Mishlov?
[02:25:31]  He's the one that won it.
[02:25:32]  No, it was a different guy.
[02:25:33]  He said he won it.
[02:25:34]  There were three, no, probably not.
[02:25:36]  There were three winners.
[02:25:37]  Oh, okay.
[02:25:38]  He was a near death experience guy.
[02:25:40]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:25:41]  A lot of it was based on NDEs.
[02:25:43]  Yeah.
[02:25:44]  But yeah, Jeffrey Mishlove won.
[02:25:45]  I think he got 500K, and then there were other prizes too.
[02:25:48]  She's one of the people that wrote this.
[02:25:50]  I just had about an hour and a half long conversation with her last week because she's doing this project looking at people who have seemingly had experiences in their life that shape their life or maybe lead them in one direction over another where they feel it wasn't necessarily their ego or their individual choice in doing those things.
[02:26:12]  And I've had a ton of those throughout my life.
[02:26:15]  So I saw she was doing this.
[02:26:16]  I know her from, she was actually at that.
[02:26:18]  Eslin conference in 2022, I just referenced.
[02:26:21]  So I got to know her there, spent a lot of time on the phone.
[02:26:24]  We're hashing out all this insane shit that's been happening to me recently that has forced me to look back into my life and see other things that had also been weird that I didn't pay much attention to until I had the 2020 hindsight vision where things started to make sense.
[02:26:44]  The dots were connected, so to speak, but it's only once.
[02:26:48]  A lot of this other weird stuff has been happening.
[02:26:49]  But yeah, I was at the International UFO Congress.
[02:26:53]  In 2022, just gave my talk.
[02:26:57]  Took like a two and a half hour nap.
[02:26:59]  Missed the VIP party where we're supposed to go and schmooze with people that want to meet the speakers.
[02:27:05]  Show up a half hour late, groggy eyed.
[02:27:07]  I'm like, you know, sorry, never take naps.
[02:27:09]  I don't know why I just slept so long.
[02:27:12]  And then, yeah, things just sort of snowballed from there.
[02:27:16]  It took me about a year to be able to talk about it at all.
[02:27:20]  And then finally got up the courage to do so.
[02:27:24]  But Yeah, I mean, it's way too long to go into from start to finish, but the Cliff Notes version is that I was taken up into that same room where I was late because of the inopportune nap.
[02:27:42]  And I was taken there, I wasn't allowed to leave.
[02:27:44]  These two people came in.
[02:27:46]  What room again?
[02:27:47]  It was that VIP room that the organizers booked that for as a common space.
[02:27:54]  And that's where people met.
[02:27:56]  They had some beers and stuff.
[02:27:58]  People will go back there afterwards, and you know, like Travis Walton brings his guitar, people jam out.
[02:28:03]  I was looking forward to do all of that.
[02:28:04]  Didn't get to.
[02:28:07]  But they took me up there, started by telling me something that I'd only thought and never told anybody else.
[02:28:17]  Who is that?
[02:28:17]  Well, I know who it is now.
[02:28:19]  I didn't have any idea who it was at the time.
[02:28:21]  It was a total stranger.
[02:28:22]  But his name's Eric Mitchell, and he's also experienced some crazy stuff, like UFO stuff and just a lot of sort of.
[02:28:33]  Classic experiencer things, modifications to his psyche, his worldview.
[02:28:41]  He's an experiencer, you know, we all kind of walk around.
[02:28:44]  Yeah.
[02:28:45]  But at the time, I had no idea who he was.
[02:28:46]  He was a random stranger that came in, pulled up his chair to where his knees in my crotch, like a very imposing sort of body position.
[02:28:56]  His face is right here.
[02:28:58]  And he tells me something that I had never told anyone a thought in my head, which was, Very effective because I was like, wait, what is happening?
[02:29:07]  Why was I kept here so long?
[02:29:09]  Who is this guy?
[02:29:10]  It wasn't him, as it turns out, in the strict sense of who an individual is with their own sense of ego.
[02:29:17]  The best I can explain it is something called deep trance mediumship, where he was him in his body, but there was also something else, some other consciousness that had sort of pushed his to the side and was speaking through him initially vocally.
[02:29:35]  Most of the conversation, I'd say it was probably over a half hour period, started out with verbal speech between him and the woman that brought me up there that was keeping me there.
[02:29:44]  And then over the course of the next 10 minutes, it moved to entirely telepathic speech where it almost felt like it was happening above my head.
[02:29:52]  Like the three of us are communicating oddly in our same voices, same voices without coming through the vocal cords.
[02:29:59]  I can hear Heidi and Eric's voice in my head.
[02:30:02]  I can hear my own voice when I speak without moving our mouths.
[02:30:05]  None of us were moving our mouths.
[02:30:06]  It's still.
[02:30:06]  To this day, one of the weirdest things about that.
[02:30:09]  And yeah, it's just that, and then a number of other things they told me, they asked me, I was allowed to ask them questions about things.
[02:30:17]  And then they got to the main point.
[02:30:19]  The main point was to ask me not to stop doing what I was doing because I was getting really sick of it.
[02:30:25]  And it is taxing, you know, the travel and just talking to people constantly about these things that, fortunately, I love talking about.
[02:30:33]  You know, I say I've always been easily bored by the banality of reality.
[02:30:36]  And that is very true.
[02:30:37]  Like these conversations we're having are my favorite to have.
[02:30:41]  I get really sick talking about boring shit.
[02:30:43]  With that said, UFO fatigue is real.
[02:30:46]  Yeah, big time, big time.
[02:30:48]  I'm experiencing it too.
[02:30:49]  Yeah.
[02:30:50]  And it's, yeah, it was hard.
[02:30:52]  It was an especially hard period.
[02:30:54]  And I was just done.
[02:30:55]  I wanted to quit.
[02:30:57]  And I didn't tell anybody that.
[02:30:59]  They asked me not to quit.
[02:31:00]  How could you know that?
[02:31:01]  That's insane.
[02:31:02]  And then there were a number of other things that happened throughout this question answer session.
[02:31:06]  People are starting to come into the room, people see us out there and are worried.
[02:31:11]  About me, as I found out later.
[02:31:14]  Some of them knew me.
[02:31:15]  And at one point, three women came out, and this individual, Eric, in a vocal speech, at this point, we were speaking telepathically, which is probably why they came out.
[02:31:23]  Like, why are these three people just sitting there without moving their mouths?
[02:31:27]  I couldn't even move my head by this point.
[02:31:29]  But he said something like, Can you close the door behind you out loud?
[02:31:33]  And it kind of broke from the telepathic thing that was happening.
[02:31:36]  So it jumped out at me, kind of.
[02:31:38]  And then all three of them turned, walked back inside, and closed the door behind them.
[02:31:43]  And that was all that was said.
[02:31:44]  Nobody came out the rest of the time.
[02:31:46]  By the time they released me, there's probably 20 people inside, I would guess.
[02:31:51]  I had to walk through a crowd of people to get out of there.
[02:31:54]  But what happened between them is that they said they had to put three things in my brain that would be important for some future time or times.
[02:32:02]  They told me what would happen.
[02:32:03]  My eyes would go black, even though they'd be wide open and the information would come in.
[02:32:07]  I wouldn't have access to it.
[02:32:09]  They told me I wouldn't know what it was, but very politely asked if that's okay.
[02:32:14]  They asked for my permission for this to happen.
[02:32:17]  After everything else that had occurred, it was clear to me that they were, I don't know what they are.
[02:32:27]  I don't know who they are.
[02:32:28]  I don't know what they are.
[02:32:29]  A highly advanced non-local consciousness is the best I can do.
[02:32:33]  But I did get the sense that they were familiar.
[02:32:36]  That I had known them my entire life.
[02:32:41]  And then it sort of made me start to think more recently was that thing that happened when I was eight or nine with Whitley's book cover and the download, for lack of a better word, was that my precognition or was it them?
[02:32:55]  They were putting things in my brain at that moment.
[02:32:57]  Could they have also done that when I was eight or nine years old?
[02:33:01]  And then other moments too, and a lot of these came up when I was talking to Sharon for this Destiny project.
[02:33:06]  I apologize if I'm getting that name wrong.
[02:33:08]  Because I started to think back, like, wait, now that I have this lived experience, this sense of what happened, and sorry, I'm jumping all over the place, but it's hard to describe all of this as one straightforward narrative.
[02:33:23]  But what they eventually did is exactly what they said.
[02:33:26]  My eyes went black.
[02:33:26]  I'm still staring right at this individual's faces right here.
[02:33:30]  And all of this information comes streaming into my brain at tremendous speed.
[02:33:33]  I was able to see it temporarily in that moment because Heidi, who's standing to my right with her hand now on my shoulder, would say, Did you get that?
[02:33:41]  Did you get that?
[02:33:42]  And I would just kind of mumble, uh huh, uh huh, uh huh.
[02:33:45]  So I could clearly see it briefly as it crossed the threshold, but then it completely disappeared.
[02:33:52]  It went into my brain.
[02:33:53]  I have no idea what it was.
[02:33:54]  No memory.
[02:33:55]  No access to it.
[02:33:56]  Well, how can they be memories if it's a future memory that I will have?
[02:34:02]  You know, clearly, time and memories don't work the way we consider them because I have had dream precognition my entire life, as I mentioned.
[02:34:09]  But those future events are in my brain.
[02:34:13]  For something that I guess is going to happen, but I have no idea what it is or when it's going to happen or what specifically are the events associated with it.
[02:34:22]  But they politely asked me if they could put it in.
[02:34:24]  I agreed, but it did force me to look back over other things that have occurred in my life with a new conceptualization of what those things might have been and how they might be tied into all of this other shit.
[02:34:41]  Hmm.
[02:34:43]  But I don't know.
[02:34:44]  I don't know what the hell it is.
[02:34:45]  It, it, Really sure.
[02:34:47]  Did you ever have a conversation with Eric or Heidi after this?
[02:34:51]  Yeah.
[02:34:51]  So, Heidi, I did know before because I met her in 2019 at that same conference.
[02:34:57]  She was running audio video and we kind of chatted.
[02:35:01]  I gave her daughter a sticker.
[02:35:04]  So, she was able to get me up there because I knew her.
[02:35:10]  Eric was a complete stranger.
[02:35:12]  In fact, Eric and Heidi prior to this had never been in the same room.
[02:35:16]  They kind of knew each other, but they'd never.
[02:35:17]  Met face to face.
[02:35:18]  They were both brought here for this thing.
[02:35:21]  They were brought to the balcony of that room for this thing.
[02:35:25]  Her mind, I think, was probably taken over before his, like when we were downstairs and she took me up.
[02:35:31]  I think they saw an opportunity and brought me up there.
[02:35:34]  I was actually pissed.
[02:35:35]  I was like, we went up there just to get beers to take down to some of our friends because she had access to this room and the organizers don't care.
[02:35:44]  And yeah, she was, she brought me up there and then wouldn't let me leave.
[02:35:48]  I've got beers in my pockets.
[02:35:50]  We're ready to go back down.
[02:35:51]  You know, our friends are waiting for us.
[02:35:53]  And she's like, Oh, we can't leave.

=== Eric and Heidi Balcony Meeting (15:11) ===

[02:35:54]  I'm like, Why?
[02:35:54]  Oh, Eric's coming.
[02:35:55]  He wants to talk to you.
[02:35:57]  I'm like, Who the hell is Eric?
[02:35:58]  Oh, he's a friend of mine.
[02:35:58]  Don't worry about it.
[02:35:59]  She must have said that 10, 12 times.
[02:36:02]  And I'm just getting irritated, you know?
[02:36:04]  So I knew Heidi, but I was so scared about what happened even a year after that I didn't want to talk to her because I didn't know what she was or what we were or what reality is anymore.
[02:36:17]  So I spent a year trying to avoid all of this.
[02:36:21]  Eventually, I got the sense that I was supposed to talk to it.
[02:36:23]  And that's one of the things they told me in this conversation when I was allowed to ask questions.
[02:36:27]  Like my third question was, can I talk about this?
[02:36:30]  And I said, we want you to talk about this.
[02:36:32]  So, between that and feeling like a goddamn hypocrite, because I dedicated my second book that you just read to all of the brave people that are willing to talk about their experiences, recognizing I wasn't one of those brave people.
[02:36:45]  I should be talking about this.
[02:36:46]  They asked me to, but I was scared.
[02:36:48]  I was really scared to talk about something that, A, I don't understand.
[02:36:53]  How do you talk about something you don't know about?
[02:36:55]  B, because I don't know what they put in my brain.
[02:36:57]  And that's obviously what people want to know more than anything else is what's in there.
[02:37:01]  I don't know.
[02:37:02]  And C, because I I had no sense of like what reality was anymore.
[02:37:08]  Like the things that happened in that moment really kind of forced me to reconceptualize physical reality and consciousness and just spirit, souls, energy like all of these things.
[02:37:21]  I'd always been a strict materialist.
[02:37:23]  And now I've kind of been flipped, as Kreipel says.
[02:37:28]  You know, I had to flip and start thinking about these things that were never on my radar.
[02:37:33]  But to your question, yeah, so.
[02:37:36]  I talked about Jesse Michaels first and kind of had a little breakdown the day before I was flying down to LA to speak with him because I knew he would want to talk about it.
[02:37:44]  He was one of the first people I told because I was down in LA with him in December, which was only about a month and a half after it happened.
[02:37:51]  And it kind of came up because I was still losing my shit over it.
[02:37:54]  It really jacked me up for about a month.
[02:37:56]  It was recent after that.
[02:37:57]  It was very recent after it happened.
[02:38:00]  And we wrapped on this shoot and then it kind of just came up organically and the floodgates opened.
[02:38:05]  Like I was just, I hadn't really talked to anybody about it other than my wife and my kids, who had.
[02:38:11]  Overheard us talking about it.
[02:38:12]  But I knew he knew and would want to talk about it, as I was preparing to go down to finish, you know, the shoot.
[02:38:20]  We did it in two different segments and I just didn't know if I could and then recognized I was being a hypocrite by thanking other people for their bravery and me being just a little wuss and um.
[02:38:31]  So I reached out to Heidi like hey, do you remember when, when they said we want you to talk about this, did you get any sense of the time frame?
[02:38:40]  And she this made it even more confusing she Was there, she remembered being there and all of the weird things that happened, but she wasn't allowed to remember the specific things that were said.
[02:38:53]  I eventually learned Eric.
[02:38:55]  So, basically, with deep trance mediumship, the deep one, your consciousness is completely pushed aside.
[02:39:01]  So, you look at people like, you know, the Bashar guy or like, what's her name, Nora Roberts, mediums essentially, people that can channel.
[02:39:14]  There's different levels of that.
[02:39:15]  So, hers was completely pushed aside.
[02:39:17]  She was there, she was participating.
[02:39:19]  As a physical form, but her mind was completely taken over essentially.
[02:39:24]  Eric, on the other hand, had some awareness of what was being said through him, not all of it, but he has memories of certain things that were spoken.
[02:39:33]  I didn't know that, I just assumed she was some kind of crazy creature of some sort that could do this on her own.
[02:39:41]  You know, I didn't know, but I was afraid to ask until then because I was going down to potentially talk about this for the first time.
[02:39:50]  And she's like, I don't know.
[02:39:52]  I don't remember anything that was said or the conversation that was had.
[02:39:56]  But she remembered being there, just not why she was there.
[02:39:58]  Yeah.
[02:39:59]  Yeah.
[02:40:00]  Exactly.
[02:40:01]  And the next day, she was like, Eric's an interesting guy, huh?
[02:40:04]  And I couldn't even deal.
[02:40:06]  Like, I was losing my mind.
[02:40:07]  I was like, uh huh.
[02:40:08]  Uh huh.
[02:40:08]  Yeah.
[02:40:09]  Pretty, pretty strange.
[02:40:10]  I'm packing up all my stuff to get out of there.
[02:40:12]  And she's, she's one, I realized now she was wanting to know more about what happened and thought I would know.
[02:40:17]  And I did because I was conscious throughout 90% of it.
[02:40:21]  But I didn't know that's why she was asking.
[02:40:23]  I thought she was just kind of like, yeah, weird stuff last night.
[02:40:27]  And I wasn't ready to deal at that point.
[02:40:29]  It took me a year before I was even.
[02:40:31]  Ready to reach out, like, hey, I might have to talk about this.
[02:40:33]  Did you get a sense of when we're supposed to do that?
[02:40:37]  So Jesse's Daco comes out, and then I get a message from Eric.
[02:40:41]  I think it was on Thanksgiving, and his face pops up.
[02:40:44]  I didn't know he's a real person, I didn't know who he was.
[02:40:47]  Suddenly, there's just this individual in front of me that knows my thoughts that I've never told anybody else.
[02:40:52]  They know everything about my past, they know about my future, they know about all of our future and can put things in my brain for that future.
[02:40:59]  All of a sudden, his face is on my phone, and I just I like crumbled as a human.
[02:41:05]  How long after?
[02:41:06]  It was, well, that was October.
[02:41:08]  It was a year later.
[02:41:09]  It was November.
[02:41:10]  So a year and a month.
[02:41:12]  Okay.
[02:41:12]  But it still brought back everything, even after that amount of time.
[02:41:16]  And I've since gotten to know Eric.
[02:41:19]  And we chat from time to time.
[02:41:21]  I've learned a lot about his experiences and the things that have happened to him and the way it's changed him physiologically.
[02:41:29]  His brain, his antenna is cranked up really high.
[02:41:34]  But yeah, no, it really challenged a lot of.
[02:41:37]  My preconceived notions of not just reality, but who I am, like ego, and living a life that may have not necessarily always been based on decisions I felt I was making for me by myself.
[02:41:56]  Yeah, I still struggle with a lot of that stuff, but I think it's, I don't know, I think we should all be asking questions.
[02:42:03]  And I'm not alone.
[02:42:04]  You know, as I've started talking about this publicly, reluctantly, there's been so many folks who have.
[02:42:11]  Reached out to me with similar experiences.
[02:42:14]  It's not unique.
[02:42:16]  I think it's just unique that I'm talking about it based on what I've sort of structured my career around because it's risky.
[02:42:26]  I'm not supposed to be.
[02:42:27]  People thank me for talking about it.
[02:42:31]  But I feel like we should.
[02:42:32]  How are we going to learn?
[02:42:33]  If we don't talk about all of the crazy things that exist around us, how are we ever going to learn about just how crazy this world is that we live in?
[02:42:42]  What was Eric's specific memory of that moment?
[02:42:44]  Of that moment, so for him, he what he told me is that he knew he was coming up to meet Heidi, he didn't know what was happening.
[02:42:54]  So, Heidi was I hate using the word taken over, you know, but I don't know what else to use.
[02:43:00]  It's not like a body snatchers thing, it's just her consciousness was sort of moved to the side a little.
[02:43:05]  And they got in her head down, uh, at this Halloween party that was happening.
[02:43:11]  And of course, people were like, Oh, you were on drugs, or no, I wasn't.
[02:43:14]  I do enjoy drugs sometimes.
[02:43:16]  Legal ones, of course.
[02:43:19]  But I had one beer and I didn't have any money.
[02:43:21]  And she was like, VIP room, there's tons of beers nobody drank at this VIP party.
[02:43:26]  We'll go up there.
[02:43:27]  So that's when she was co opted.
[02:43:30]  That's a better word than taken over.
[02:43:32]  Sure.
[02:43:32]  But she was texting Eric to bring him there to perform this thing that apparently took both of them.
[02:43:38]  He didn't know why he was coming, but he saw me out on the balcony sitting in this chair.
[02:43:44]  He saw her standing behind me and said, as soon as he walked in and saw Heidi, That's when he was switched over.
[02:43:51]  And from that point on, he was them.
[02:43:54]  He was used as this conduit through which they were doing this thing.
[02:43:59]  But I wasn't talking to Eric at all.
[02:44:03]  I was talking through Eric to whatever this advanced non local consciousness is.
[02:44:07]  And he was being used for them to talk to me as well.
[02:44:11]  God.
[02:44:15]  If the time traveling shit wasn't advanced enough, they got to be able to take over our consciousness and communicate through beings that are.
[02:44:25]  On our timeline or in our time frame.
[02:44:26]  At the time, I just assumed he was something else, you know?
[02:44:31]  I had no idea he was a real person.
[02:44:33]  That almost made it weirder once I found out that he's just like everybody else, but has had experiences, UFO encounters and changes and things.
[02:44:41]  But it was easier when I just didn't know who he was or what he was.
[02:44:46]  It almost conjured up more questions once I learned that he's a person.
[02:44:53]  That's wild shit, man.
[02:44:54]  Yeah, no, it's been weird.
[02:44:56]  There's been other things too that have happened, a very similar thing to that.
[02:45:01]  And again, once I experienced that, I know what it is and what it feels like.
[02:45:06]  But they did that to me again about three months later.
[02:45:10]  I got the sense that there was something above my house.
[02:45:13]  I can't prove it.
[02:45:15]  And actually, a lot of the things that have happened can be taken with a grain of salt because I don't have proof.
[02:45:24]  This one that they did in Phoenix, I feel like they did intentionally and made sure there were other people involved.
[02:45:30]  And there were people watching.
[02:45:32]  Whether they manipulated them too, it seemed that they did.
[02:45:34]  There was one individual inside that remembers feeling concern and seeing what was happening out there, but not a sense of like who was there.
[02:45:43]  He can't put faces on the other people, which seems to indicate they were sort of being altered as well.
[02:45:50]  Or the three people that came out and turned in unison and walked back inside.
[02:45:53]  Like that, even out of my periphery, I was like, that's weird.
[02:45:58]  So, yeah, I don't know.
[02:46:02]  I don't know exactly how deep.
[02:46:05]  Or how far those threads expand outside of what was happening on that balcony.
[02:46:09]  But there were other people that can corroborate this.
[02:46:13]  That's important.
[02:46:14]  The other ones you could write off is just schizophrenia or just me experiencing something I don't understand, which is fine.
[02:46:22]  I don't, you know, it's hard when people talk about these things.
[02:46:27]  It's hard to find the right words, it's hard to convey it to people who haven't experienced the same types of things.
[02:46:32]  And it also just sounds insane.
[02:46:33]  I'll be the first to admit that.
[02:46:35]  All I can do is tell people honestly.
[02:46:40]  And with sincerity, what happened and allow them to take other data points and form their own opinion about what it is and what it might mean, you know?
[02:46:48]  And I'm not lying.
[02:46:50]  It would be really difficult to lie.
[02:46:52]  I've never been a liar because it seems impossible to like keep a lie going.
[02:46:56]  You know, you have to remember everything you said before.
[02:46:58]  So, got to remember the lies.
[02:46:59]  Yeah, I could never do that.
[02:47:01]  It would stress me the hell out.
[02:47:02]  So, I'm just saying what happened.
[02:47:04]  But one thing that did occur that there weren't other witnesses to, I told my wife about it the next morning.
[02:47:11]  Is I was in bed.
[02:47:13]  I got the sense there was something above my house.
[02:47:16]  And I woke up and I was like, oh shit, it's the same thing that happened in Phoenix.
[02:47:21]  Like I felt the information, saw like the colored lights coming into my brain, the same way I did when they blacked out my eyes and put the information in my brain on that balcony in Phoenix.
[02:47:34]  And I sat up and I was like, oh, that's weird.
[02:47:36]  It's happening again, but there's no Eric right here.
[02:47:39]  There's no Heidi right here.
[02:47:40]  You know, what's going on?
[02:47:42]  And so I lay back down, instantly asleep.
[02:47:44]  And that never happens to me.
[02:47:46]  I'm always up.
[02:47:47]  I'm always like ruminating on everything that could ever happen to anybody I know and love.
[02:47:52]  And it's, you know, anxiety.
[02:47:54]  I never just lay down and go back to sleep.
[02:47:57]  Half hour later, on the dot, sit up.
[02:48:00]  Same thing.
[02:48:01]  Like, oh shit, you know, there's the lights and the information again.
[02:48:04]  Lay back down, instantly asleep.
[02:48:06]  This happened six different times.
[02:48:08]  Every half hour on the mark.
[02:48:11]  But it's slower.
[02:48:12]  When they did this to me in Phoenix, there was this stream of information coming in at a tremendous speed.
[02:48:18]  And when I got up and I was allowed to leave, I walked through this room of people.
[02:48:22]  A woman put her hand on my arm and said, Are you okay?
[02:48:25]  And I couldn't even lift my head.
[02:48:26]  Like my head felt like it was 50 pounds.
[02:48:29]  And I kind of try to look my eyes.
[02:48:31]  I always said, uh huh, uh huh.
[02:48:33]  Like I was in such a mesmerized, zombie like state.
[02:48:36]  I just walked through, walked down about four doors, laid down on the bed with my feet still on the floor, passed out for like 13 hours, woke up, same position, feet still on the floor.
[02:48:47]  I also never do that.
[02:48:48]  I cannot sleep like that.
[02:48:49]  I got to be laying down.
[02:48:51]  But there were elements to this that was happening to me at night where they woke me up every half hour that were just like that.
[02:48:59]  The only thing that was different is the speed at which it was happening.
[02:49:02]  It was coming in slowly.
[02:49:03]  And I can't help but wonder if that's because I was asleep.
[02:49:05]  If there's like a subconscious element to where it's easier to do that.
[02:49:10]  Whereas at that time on the balcony, we were running out of time.
[02:49:14]  People were coming in.
[02:49:15]  This is where the after party was going to be.
[02:49:16]  So people were coming in.
[02:49:17]  I got the sense of urgency in what they were doing, not just putting it in there for some future thing that seemed urgent in itself, but some urgency because of the way people were coming in.
[02:49:28]  They were like, we got to do this fast.
[02:49:30]  And they just shot that shit into my brain and it hurt.
[02:49:33]  You know, like it, my head felt heavy, and there was a physiological response.
[02:49:40]  I cried the whole next day, or at least until they showed up again and took it from me.
[02:49:44]  Eric just showed up in the hallway.
[02:49:46]  They apparently realized I wasn't dealing very well with what they just did to me.
[02:49:50]  He shows up in this empty hallway, puts his hand on my shoulder, and says, Are you okay?
[02:49:54]  I was cool.
[02:49:54]  Uh huh.
[02:49:55]  Yeah.
[02:49:55]  Like just seeing him again freaked me out to start with.
[02:49:58]  And then them knowing where I would be, knowing I was struggling, but they helped, you know, some kind of reiki thing.
[02:50:04]  I don't know what word to put with it, helped alleviate some of that.
[02:50:08]  Trauma, for lack of a better word.
[02:50:11]  And I was able to finish the conference and then got home and it all just came flooding back.
[02:50:15]  But there was clearly a physiological response to whatever they did and putting that information in my brain that was much less taxing when they did it while I was asleep.
[02:50:27]  That's very interesting.
[02:50:28]  You know, the crazy thing about this whole thing is everyone who has these experiences, they seem to be like, not all of them clearly, but a vast majority of the ones that I've heard and spoken to.
[02:50:39]  They seem to be like super traumatic and, in some cases, destroys them.
[02:50:44]  Yeah, I've met those people too.
[02:50:46]  Yeah.
[02:50:47]  And then some people, what's interesting is some people have reached out saying it was too much for them.
[02:50:52]  They asked it to stop and it did.
[02:50:54]  Really?
[02:50:54]  Yeah.
[02:50:54]  And it did.
[02:50:55]  And then later, once they were able to process things, they were like, oh, I'd like that back.
[02:50:59]  And they were asking me, like, how do I get that back?
[02:51:02]  I don't want to take some mushrooms or something, rebuild the bridge.

=== Primary Reality vs Simulation Sense (03:01) ===

[02:51:05]  I don't know.
[02:51:07]  But I've heard that from a lot of people.
[02:51:09]  That was just too much.
[02:51:10]  It was too much for me.
[02:51:12]  Honestly, yeah.
[02:51:13]  Like I was a mess for a solid three weeks and then lingeringly on and off.
[02:51:21]  And then I had sort of another spell about six months after where I was just, I really wanted to know what physical reality is.
[02:51:34]  What is this existence?
[02:51:36]  Because when this happened to me and other things since, I really got the sense that this isn't the primary reality.
[02:51:44]  that we're a part of.
[02:51:45]  Not base reality?
[02:51:46]  Not base reality.
[02:51:47]  Not source.
[02:51:48]  If we're in some sort of a simulation or something?
[02:51:50]  Kind of, but I don't know.
[02:51:52]  I don't know.
[02:51:54]  I don't know.
[02:51:54]  Maybe.
[02:51:55]  But more just like, you know, the whole thing Bigelow is trying to do with best evidence for whether we survive bodily death, you know, and it gets into where do we come from?
[02:52:08]  Where do we go when we die?
[02:52:10]  All of those questions.
[02:52:11]  I feel like there's some sort of base reality rooted in consciousness and energy, and we are manifested forms of that in this physical plane.
[02:52:23]  given different bodies and a different mode of perception in order to feel individual variations in this physical experience, in this plane of existence, that maybe contributes in some way to what is happening in this more transcendental, fundamental plane of source consciousness, if that made any sense at all.
[02:52:52]  But I struggle, and I don't know.
[02:52:54]  I still don't know.
[02:52:54]  I didn't answer the damn question.
[02:52:56]  But I was pissed about it for a while.
[02:52:58]  Like, I was really angry.
[02:53:00]  Like, what are dreams?
[02:53:02]  How does it connect to this?
[02:53:03]  And I was just really jacked up for a while about that, too.
[02:53:07]  And since it's gotten better.
[02:53:09]  But yeah, they're on and off for a period of six months to a year.
[02:53:13]  And so, yeah, I definitely empathize with people that it did mess up more long term.
[02:53:19]  I've kind of come to grips with it and formed a baseline of understanding.
[02:53:24]  I still don't know what it is or how it relates to any of this, but it.
[02:53:29]  It's at least become somewhat normalized.
[02:53:31]  Yeah.
[02:53:32]  I mean, the main feeling you get from reading your book, from the people that have these experiences, whether they be sort of, you know, non-effective on the rest of their lives or if they actually negatively affect the rest of their lives is that what was going on in that timeframe from the 70s to the 2000s was it needed to be done.
[02:53:57]  Like it doesn't seem like it was.
[02:53:59]  Good or bad, but it was something that was just necessary for the survival of us or something bigger than all of us.

=== Scott Kelly Longitudinal Study Link (07:08) ===

[02:54:07]  Yeah, I think Jerry even says that specifically that she came to grips with it because she recognized that she was a part of something much bigger and more important than she was.
[02:54:17]  And it's kind of, you know, sacrifice the individual for the greater good.
[02:54:21]  Yeah.
[02:54:22]  I think that's the sense that she got after a while and then became more okay with it, even though arguably horrific things happened to her entire life since she was a small child.
[02:54:31]  Mm hmm.
[02:54:31]  And then, if it was like, so if we were to figure out backwards time travel, would that be the same as forwards time travel, or is that technologically different, or is it more difficult, or do you know anything about this?
[02:54:45]  Yeah, yeah, forward time travel is easy.
[02:54:48]  That's happening all the time.
[02:54:51]  You have what Mark and Scott Kelly went into space.
[02:54:54]  Mark was already the older brother, but I think Scott Kelly was the one.
[02:55:01]  The two astronaut twins?
[02:55:02]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:55:02]  Scott Kelly was the one I think that was in space for like.
[02:55:05]  Just over a year.
[02:55:06]  Right.
[02:55:07]  And so Mark Kelly, as the older brother, aged another like five milliseconds compared to his younger brother, Scott, because of time dilation, because of slowing down time.
[02:55:19]  Yeah.
[02:55:19]  So that's time travel into the future.
[02:55:21]  Essentially, Mark Kelly time traveled into the future of his twin brother, Scott.
[02:55:27]  But yeah, time dilation, the twin paradox, that's future time travel.
[02:55:30]  All you have to do to travel into the future is go really fast relative to the speed of light.
[02:55:35]  The physics of backward time travel and the philosophy of it and how we understand it.
[02:55:40]  Is different.
[02:55:41]  It comes with a different set of conundrums.
[02:55:46]  But I cited a paper by Ehrman et al., two separate papers, in I think the Extra Tempestural Model, where they looked at every criticism of backward time travel they could find in the literature, this massive literature review.
[02:56:02]  And the title of the paper was, Is Time Travel to the Past Prohibited?
[02:56:10]  And they said their conclusion was, No, there's nothing in the laws of physics.
[02:56:16]  That would prevent backward time travel.
[02:56:18]  And if that's the case, given human ingenuity and our ability to solve so many different problems, our ability to advance technology, if there's nothing that prohibits backward time travel, I think it's only a matter of time until we do it.
[02:56:33]  We'll figure it out.
[02:56:33]  We don't know how to do it now.
[02:56:34]  We don't even know what time is.
[02:56:36]  Speaking of like this physical reality versus some conscious reality that may exist outside of it, and these two may be related, we don't know what time is.
[02:56:46]  We know it's emergent, it's called an emergent phenomenon.
[02:56:50]  That means it comes from something more fundamental that we haven't yet discovered.
[02:56:54]  It's one of the few things that physicists will actually agree on.
[02:56:58]  So, until we know what that fundamental thing is, we can't know what time is because we can't see the whole picture.
[02:57:05]  There's a big part of this puzzle that's missing.
[02:57:08]  There's a huge part of the picture that's just pixelated and outside of our ability to focus on it.
[02:57:15]  But that doesn't mean it's impossible, you know?
[02:57:19]  And if it's not impossible, then.
[02:57:22]  We're going to figure it out eventually.
[02:57:23]  And I think we already have.
[02:57:24]  And I think what we're seeing in the form of these craft and the beans that pilot them is exactly that.
[02:57:31]  It's an indication that we do figure it out in the future and use it to go back to whatever point in the past they can reach.
[02:57:38]  Has anyone ever talked to you or reached out to you that could corroborate the fact that the government has these crafts and they are, in fact, time machines that they're trying to figure out how to work?
[02:57:51]  Whether they be, depending on how credible they are, maybe they're credible, maybe they're not.
[02:57:54]  Has anyone ever claimed it?
[02:57:56]  Yeah, quite a few people actually.
[02:57:58]  Really?
[02:57:59]  Yeah.
[02:58:01]  I'm not going to pick and choose because I don't know whose names I could use and whose I couldn't.
[02:58:07]  We don't have to say their names.
[02:58:08]  Yeah, some are people, other people would know.
[02:58:13]  But yeah, it's been mentioned to me many times.
[02:58:17]  Yeah, because if we had the technology and we were able to go back to the past, you would have to be very careful and there would have to be, I would imagine you'd have to put regulations in place.
[02:58:29]  Yeah, for sure.
[02:58:31]  And rules on A, who could go, and B, like what are the rules?
[02:58:37]  How much are you allowed to interact?
[02:58:39]  Non interference.
[02:58:41]  Yeah.
[02:58:41]  Right.
[02:58:42]  And, you know, honestly, I think that bolsters the case for this theory because an argument could be made if these extraterrestrials are traveling, you know, light years to get here, millions of miles, why wouldn't they introduce themselves upon arrival or kill us and take all of our stuff or enslave us, you know?
[02:59:00]  Yes.
[02:59:01]  Um, but right, exactly.
[02:59:02]  If they are coming from the future, you don't want a back to the future two scenario where Biff gets rich off of sports betting and just starts an empire, you know.
[02:59:11]  Um, or maybe you would, right?
[02:59:14]  Yeah, you'd imagine sports betting, yeah, making a killing off, yeah, no, that, yeah, or like how you talk about is the um, the tourist idea of like, yeah, time tourists, like let's get up and go check out these crazy apes, you know, in Las Vegas, yeah, absolutely.
[02:59:29]  I mean, or to go back and you know, see Jesus' crucifixion or how they built the pyramids and all these.
[02:59:35]  Different landmarks.
[02:59:36]  And I mentioned too in that same section of the book that the most visited sites are these ancient historic and prehistoric sites.
[02:59:44]  That's where tourists want to go.
[02:59:45]  So we go there and we imagine what it would look like.
[02:59:47]  If you could actually go to the time that was like the period that they were making these things, you could see how they lived and interacted with each other and understand there were poets and writers at the time of Jesus and see what people are doing in their day to day lives.
[03:00:03]  You'd pay a ton of money for that opportunity.
[03:00:05]  So, yeah, outside of us inventing backward time travel to mitigate the twin paradox effect, where you want to go home, not just to your planet, but to your time.
[03:00:16]  To see when your family's still alive, you would probably also invent it.
[03:00:22]  There would be a motivation to invent it to fill that demand side economic aspect of going back in time.
[03:00:31]  One other thing related to this, just this conversation just made me think of it, is another line of evidence, too, is based on what we would do in a longitudinal study of an individual, is very similar to what those individuals who are lifelong abductees describe.
[03:00:47]  In these cases where they're picked up as a small child throughout their teens, 20s, 30s, whenever, as an aged adult, they know these people.
[03:00:56]  They've been interacting with them their entire life, but case after case, they say they don't age.
[03:01:01]  And that's exactly what you expect.
[03:01:03]  If they're using time travel in order to do that, you could do a whole longitudinal study on that one individual that for them, the abductee would be a lifetime, but for the researchers, might be one or two days.

=== Lifelong Abductee Aging Pattern (02:39) ===

[03:01:15]  Yeah.
[03:01:16]  Let's hop in and out and get them when they want.
[03:01:18]  Whitley said the being that he asked that he thought was a female, he asked how old she was, and she said ancient was her answer.
[03:01:26]  She's probably right.
[03:01:28]  Ancient and wise, I would add that too.
[03:01:30]  Another pattern that emerged from this book is oftentimes with these lifelong abductees, they're the opposite gender of the person that's taken.
[03:01:37]  Yeah, that's so like.
[03:01:39]  I don't know why.
[03:01:40]  It's just a pattern that emerged in case after case.
[03:01:44]  Whitley had sex with his, too.
[03:01:46]  I know.
[03:01:46]  It's a pretty wild, wild account.
[03:01:48]  And the book is.
[03:01:49]  The book of David Huggins.
[03:01:50]  Yeah.
[03:01:50]  That's another thing.
[03:01:52]  Like, they're so advanced.
[03:01:53]  Why can't they just reproduce or like figure out how to crossbreed us with them in a better way than like primitive?
[03:02:04]  I mean, have you ever had sex?
[03:02:06]  It's super fun.
[03:02:07]  Yeah, I guess.
[03:02:08]  I mean, yeah, no, I guess primitive is even more fun.
[03:02:10]  Yeah.
[03:02:11]  Sometimes it depends on your mood.
[03:02:14]  And, you know, if you're some billionaire living in, you know, a million years from now, like, would you want to go back and have sex with a primitive?
[03:02:25]  Ape or a primitive human?
[03:02:27]  Yes.
[03:02:27]  I don't know.
[03:02:28]  Yes, you would.
[03:02:29]  Yeah.
[03:02:29]  Actually, so.
[03:02:32]  I mean, I wouldn't want to go back and Australopithecus.
[03:02:36]  I think, well, I'm a horny guy.
[03:02:38]  So maybe.
[03:02:39]  I'm sorry.
[03:02:39]  I just got to put that out there.
[03:02:40]  You're sick fucked.
[03:02:41]  But part of my sick fuckedness needs to be acknowledged right now because this book, we've touched on a number of interesting aspects of the storyline.
[03:02:52]  But the main character, it's a female protagonist in this book.
[03:02:55]  The main character is an intertemporal sex researcher.
[03:02:58]  That's her job.
[03:03:00]  She goes back and she's talking about this one.
[03:03:01]  This one right here.
[03:03:02]  Okay.
[03:03:02]  Revelation.
[03:03:02]  Revelation, the future human past.
[03:03:04]  She is an anthropologist from the future whose job is to go back and everybody from these different times to learn about sex because they don't have sex in the future.
[03:03:13]  I sort of took that atrophy genitals thing and ran with it.
[03:03:17]  They stopped having sex.
[03:03:19]  Her job is to go back and study it in order to learn about it so she can teach people of the future about the primitive, as you said.
[03:03:28]  It's a very important theme.
[03:03:29]  Actually, a buddy of mine, he's a.
[03:03:32]  As soon as this came out, he was like, Sex, drugs, and UFOs, baby.
[03:03:36]  Because that's what this book is.
[03:03:38]  It's like sort of an exploration of basic human drives.
[03:03:43]  And instincts in the context of war, violence, religion, but also very much sex.
[03:03:51]  It's a wild ride.
[03:03:53]  Wow, man.

=== Future Anthropologist Sex Mission (06:25) ===

[03:03:55]  Well, we just did a little bit over three hours.
[03:03:57]  Seriously?
[03:03:57]  Yeah.
[03:03:58]  Jesus Christ.
[03:03:59]  I had no idea.
[03:04:00]  That was fun.
[03:04:00]  Yeah, that was great.
[03:04:03]  What is in your future as far as workbooks?
[03:04:07]  Is there anything else new you're looking at that you're going to talk about soon?
[03:04:12]  Yeah, I've kind of had to pull back a little bit, not quitting.
[03:04:16]  In case anybody's listening, that's what got me in trouble in Phoenix.
[03:04:20]  Yeah.
[03:04:21]  Don't fucking tell them to portal through me.
[03:04:22]  I don't want none of that.
[03:04:25]  No, I recently became chair of our department at the university where I teach.
[03:04:30]  And I had no idea what kind of time suck that was going to be until recently.
[03:04:36]  So I've kind of had to pull back a little bit.
[03:04:39]  I started writing a new book in May after spring semester let out, which was going to, it doesn't matter.
[03:04:47]  I don't even know if I'll be able to write it anymore.
[03:04:49]  But then.
[03:04:50]  Some things happened.
[03:04:52]  We had a crypto terrestrial paper come out, and I sort of had to do a lot of public relations with that and then some other things.
[03:05:01]  And so, yeah, long story short, I'm basically trying to focus on getting my legs beneath me, being the chair of our department, and focus on university jobs, family, just being home more, being present in my children's lives, but still.
[03:05:21]  Obviously engaged in this topic.
[03:05:23]  I can't not be.
[03:05:24]  Like I said, it's one of few things that I could talk about endlessly for three hours and feeling like it was 20 minutes.
[03:05:29]  I had no idea three hours had gone by.
[03:05:32]  But I don't have any big projects right now.
[03:05:34]  Well, with that said, some of the researchers that I've been collaborating with some researchers at various institutions on some academic papers.
[03:05:43]  We had one come out in June about the crypto terrestrial theory and it got a lot of attention globally.
[03:05:49]  What is that theory?
[03:05:50]  It's the idea that there's an advanced Civilization sequestering themselves in Earth's environs, whether it be far side of the moon, under the water.
[03:06:00]  A lot of things we talked about, honestly.
[03:06:03]  We published a pretty vast paper.
[03:06:05]  I think it was something like 35,000 words, and it kind of went viral.
[03:06:10]  I had to do a ton of interviews with pretty respectable news outlets.
[03:06:15]  It was kind of mainstream media in some cases.
[03:06:18]  We always criticized them for not getting involved in this, and they took it seriously.
[03:06:22]  It was amazing.
[03:06:23]  It was so cool to see.
[03:06:24]  You had something similar happen in 2019.
[03:06:26]  It's also that.
[03:06:27]  Which is crazy into itself, as well.
[03:06:31]  So, yeah, it's been kind of fun doing that, but there's only so many hours in the day.
[03:06:36]  But we are continuing to publish a couple of papers.
[03:06:38]  We're working on one right now that's likely to come out in December that kind of also touches on a lot of things we've been discussing in the context of the UFO phenomenon, but also the angels and demons thing, different perceptions, but also maybe some literal translations of various.
[03:06:58]  Events that have occurred and how we might understand them in the context of this phenomenon.
[03:07:02]  So, we're still putting papers out.
[03:07:05]  One's actually kind of interesting that looks at a way we might be able to statistically model the relevance and validity of different cases.
[03:07:16]  So, applying a standard means with which to take a new case and apply this method to it, and then it graphs in physical space different important elements to it.
[03:07:29]  So, a lot like what J. Allen Hynek did in the UFO.
[03:07:32]  Experience, I think, is what it was called.
[03:07:34]  His reliability metric and what were they called?
[03:07:42]  Like oddness and reliability or something.
[03:07:45]  Right, right, right.
[03:07:46]  I think a lot of your.
[03:07:48]  Like cataloging everything and trying to find, like with the timeline, with the UFO timeline?
[03:07:52]  Kind of, but it applies a matrix to it.
[03:07:54]  It's like a matrix that plots out these things.
[03:07:57]  And then also, what we want to do is give it to different subgroups.
[03:08:00]  So, like, give it to skeptics and see where that same case would plot based on that.
[03:08:05]  That demographic group, give it to believers, skeptics, scientists, people in Congress, you know, and have visual representation that we can make open source where we can get a big sample size and then tease apart that data.
[03:08:18]  There's a number of studies that could come from that unto itself, but we want to have this standardized measure.
[03:08:22]  So I'm working with these other PhDs at institutions in the UK, US, Brazil as well to try to, yeah, add more legitimacy to this by publishing peer reviewed academic papers.
[03:08:36]  Um, it's funny, I just said I'm not doing anything to focus on my uni job and I forgot about all this other stuff, but it's a juggling act.
[03:08:44]  I mean, you know, it's easy to get UFO burnout, um, but it's important, you know, I feel like it is important because it might be one of the biggest questions of our time.
[03:08:54]  So I appreciate you doing this and this show, this beautiful space.
[03:08:58]  And yeah, I think the more we can just keep talking, the more we're gonna hopefully chip away at the reality of this and maybe even eventually figure out what it is.
[03:09:07]  I agree, man.
[03:09:08]  And like I said, that book is probably one of the most compelling cases I've ever witnessed to this thing.
[03:09:13]  I think it makes a ton of sense.
[03:09:16]  Tell people where they can find your work, follow you.
[03:09:18]  Do you have social media, all that stuff?
[03:09:20]  Yeah, yeah.
[03:09:21]  For better or worse, I'm on all the socials the Twitter, the Facebook, the Instagram.
[03:09:27]  I've got a website too, which has links to all of those and to the books and some upcoming events.
[03:09:35]  I'll be in Denver next month at their MOOC on.
[03:09:41]  Colorado Mufon.
[03:09:42]  I guess they're one of the biggest Mufon groups.
[03:09:44]  Oh, really?
[03:09:44]  Colorado?
[03:09:45]  Yeah, Colorado and Phoenix.
[03:09:47]  I think those are the two biggest ones.
[03:09:49]  So this will be kind of a fun talk.
[03:09:52]  I believe it's since Centennial, just south of Denver, September 14th or something.
[03:09:58]  Other than that, I don't do a lot of talks anymore.
[03:10:02]  It's just that's a lot of work.
[03:10:03]  But I do love these conversations.
[03:10:05]  So I appreciate you inviting me down for this.
[03:10:07]  This was very fun.
[03:10:08]  It's been a ton of fun.
[03:10:09]  Thank you for coming down.
[03:10:10]  Steve, do we have any Patreon stuff?
[03:10:13]  Yes, we do.
[03:10:14]  Okay.
[03:10:14]  All right.
[03:10:16]  We're going to go do these Patreon questions, talk more to the patrons.
[03:10:19]  Thanks for watching, folks.
[03:10:20]  Good night.