Danny Jones Podcast - #223 - Disturbing CIA Document Finally Confirms JFK Coverup | John Newman
Aired: 2024-02-12
Duration: 02:55:59


=== Antonio Vesciana and the CIA (15:02) ===

[00:00:07]  Didn't you say what was the story that you got your phone pickpocketed somewhere after a conference?
[00:00:11]  Yes, it was.
[00:00:12]  What was that in Dallas?
[00:00:13]  It was in Dallas.
[00:00:14]  It was a big event, probably in the 90s.
[00:00:20]  And I was uncovering a huge misdirection that nobody knew about.
[00:00:25]  It was a guy named Antonio Vesciana.
[00:00:29]  And he was allegedly, they say he was working for the CIA the whole time.
[00:00:36]  He was in Cuba first.
[00:00:38]  He was a banker and then joined a CIA managed thing, MRP, doesn't matter what that stands for.
[00:00:49]  And then they didn't like it.
[00:00:51]  The MRP, including him, didn't like it because once they took the money from the CIA, they had to do whatever the CIA said.
[00:01:00]  They didn't like that.
[00:01:01]  So he came to the United States.
[00:01:05]  He started telling the CIA lies and he stole their money and did stuff like that.
[00:01:14]  He wasn't working for the CIA anymore, but everybody thought he did.
[00:01:18]  And what he was working for was the military.
[00:01:24]  And what he was doing right during the Cuban Missile Crisis was sinking Russian ships to start World War III because the military wanted him to do that.
[00:01:34]  And I figured that out and I had tons of evidence, tons of evidence that was released.
[00:01:40]  All of his friends, his best friends, all said the same thing about.
[00:01:45]  They put him in jail for a long while because a lot of those CIA guys were running dope, you know, in South American stuff.
[00:01:51]  So they had it on everybody.
[00:01:52]  And so what they do sometimes, if they want to use somebody, say, okay, here's what you're going to do for us.
[00:01:59]  And if he says no, okay, he can put him in jail.
[00:02:02]  And so he ended up in jail.
[00:02:04]  And way late, like 19, no, not 19.
[00:02:12]  20 something.
[00:02:13]  And no, it was 1976.
[00:02:19]  Why were there so many CIA guys running dope?
[00:02:22]  Because it's fungible money.
[00:02:25]  It doesn't exist.
[00:02:27]  And they do lots of operations that way.
[00:02:30]  It's a really screwed up system.
[00:02:33]  But look, we're not going to talk about that.
[00:02:35]  What I want to tell you is that when they put him in jail, And they let him out really early.
[00:02:45]  They busted him for 25 kilos of cocaine.
[00:02:50]  25 kilos is what he had that particular day.
[00:02:54]  And that gets you about two non-consecutive 12-year terms instantly.
[00:03:04]  So he was going to be locked up for at least 12 years, if not more than that.
[00:03:10]  And they let him out in about less than two years.
[00:03:14]  And there was no reason why.
[00:03:17]  And so that was missing.
[00:03:19]  Somebody walked into the, it was a penitentiary, and walked in there and said something.
[00:03:25]  And next thing you know, he's out.
[00:03:28]  And what they did was they said, you've got, here's what you've got to say.
[00:03:32]  You've got to say that you're working for the CIA the whole time.
[00:03:36]  And he said, fine.
[00:03:37]  The problem with that was there was so much evidence to the contrary.
[00:03:42]  So he struggled for years to make that work because that's what they forced him to do.
[00:03:49]  And, but.
[00:03:51]  While he was still alive, and he wrote a book about it to you.
[00:03:54]  He's got a book, Vesiana does.
[00:03:57]  How do you say his last name?
[00:03:58]  V E C I A N A. Vesiana.
[00:04:01]  Vesciana.
[00:04:02]  Okay.
[00:04:03]  So Antonio Vesciana did, got, you know, they went ahead and arrested him and they let him out when he did what they wanted to do.
[00:04:14]  But the problem with that was me because I was sitting there looking at all of his friends said that he made that story up to get out of jail.
[00:04:22]  All of them.
[00:04:23]  And his friends were working for the FBI and you can't lie to the FBI.
[00:04:28]  And so that was the time that this happened.
[00:04:36]  Event where they took my phone out of my possession and put it back in.
[00:04:42]  Beautiful pickpocket arranged stuff.
[00:04:43]  I didn't even know what happened.
[00:04:45]  Wow.
[00:04:45]  Okay.
[00:04:46]  But what I was able to do was to get a hold of.
[00:04:49]  In the 90s, what would your phone look like?
[00:04:51]  Oh, this was after the iPhone was out.
[00:04:53]  Yeah.
[00:04:54]  I think probably 2008, 2009, in there.
[00:04:57]  Okay.
[00:04:58]  It was just cut and dry.
[00:05:00]  And the problem was so many people, what they did, here's what they did.
[00:05:05]  To get people to believe this, hey guys, I want to ask you a quick favor.
[00:05:10]  Over the last few months, almost 70% of the viewers of this podcast are not subscribed to the channel.
[00:05:17]  The most important common denominator that allows me to keep creating these podcasts every single week is you hitting that subscribe button below the videos.
[00:05:25]  I want to thank every single one of you who watches and supports these podcasts.
[00:05:28]  I would not be able to do it without you.
[00:05:30]  Please hit that subscribe button if you enjoy it.
[00:05:32]  Now back to the show.
[00:05:35]  So they say that David Attlee Phillips.
[00:05:38]  who everybody thought was a big guy in the CIA that was behind or involved in the Kennedy assassination.
[00:05:43]  David Attlee Phillips.
[00:05:44]  I don't think I've ever even heard that name.
[00:05:45]  Yeah, but if you were a JFK nut, you would know all about it because he meets Bessiana in a hotel in Dallas, Texas.
[00:05:58]  And that is where Oswald is there for the meeting.
[00:06:04]  And this is only months before the Kennedy assassination.
[00:06:08]  So it looks like they're plotting.
[00:06:12]  that this guy is plotting Kennedy's murder.
[00:06:18]  So they put Vesciana and Phillips in the same office area of a big bank in Dallas together, the three of them.
[00:06:30]  So that's proof.
[00:06:32]  That's proof that Phillips was in on it and he's a big CIA guy.
[00:06:37]  So, you know, everybody after that said the CIA killed.
[00:06:43]  killed Kennedy.
[00:06:46]  And they wouldn't give it up no matter what.
[00:06:49]  And so I came along and showed that Vesciana was working for the military and all shit hit the fan.
[00:06:59]  And so, and I was there.
[00:07:01]  That was the first, now I've been talking about it in a couple of small things, but this was a great big convention that particular year.
[00:07:09]  And everybody knew that I was going to discuss the Antonio Vesciana story.
[00:07:15]  This is one of the biggest misdirections ever because you can't figure out the Armageddon that was underway at the time.
[00:07:28]  That's what they were trying to do, to blow the planet, not to blow the planet up, but to blow all the Russia, China, all those countries.
[00:07:38]  And so Vesiana was a way to help pin this on the CIA so you don't know who's actually behind all this Armageddon stuff going on.
[00:07:48]  It's the military.
[00:07:50]  And he was working for the military the whole time.
[00:07:52]  So they wanted people to think it was the CIA.
[00:07:54]  Yes.
[00:07:55]  Wow.
[00:07:56]  Yes.
[00:07:58]  Just before I went in to do my presentation, I went into the book room and I didn't know when I came out that I no longer had my phone.
[00:08:08]  I found that out after the presentation was over.
[00:08:12]  And they put it back in.
[00:08:16]  In your pocket?
[00:08:16]  In your bag.
[00:08:18]  No, in the carry bag.
[00:08:19]  Oh, okay.
[00:08:19]  Gotcha.
[00:08:19]  In the carry bag.
[00:08:20]  Gotcha.
[00:08:21]  And so when it was over, everybody lines up to talk to me, right?
[00:08:25]  And I'm still on the dais and there's this guy.
[00:08:30]  Looks like he's in his late 50s, wearing a jacket and slacks, no tie or anything, and his mostly gray hair, and just regular looking guy.
[00:08:40]  And he says, You're okay.
[00:08:43]  You're okay.
[00:08:44]  It's okay.
[00:08:45]  They just want to know what you know.
[00:08:48]  You're good.
[00:08:49]  Don't worry.
[00:08:51]  And I didn't know that I had my phone back.
[00:08:53]  And I found out later.
[00:08:55]  So I put two things together.
[00:08:57]  There were actually a couple of events in between.
[00:09:01]  And Apple actually located the.
[00:09:04]  My phone was somewhere in the building, like straight up.
[00:09:07]  So we knew it was in the building.
[00:09:08]  Yeah.
[00:09:09]  Wow.
[00:09:10]  Anyway, they put it back in.
[00:09:12]  What did you do after he told you that?
[00:09:14]  I didn't know what to make of it.
[00:09:16]  I thought this guy was a crazy guy.
[00:09:18]  And by the way, it took me about a year or so to really figure out what that means.
[00:09:21]  Yeah.
[00:09:22]  Because, yeah, I just, I didn't get it that they were that interested in me.
[00:09:29]  Right.
[00:09:30]  I hadn't gotten that far in terms of any notoriety or anything like that.
[00:09:36]  So, yeah, but that's what happened.
[00:09:38]  That's what they wanted.
[00:09:39]  And then I had other things happen to me later on when people, XCIA people would say stuff to me that was good, you know, that they were, they, there were times when they actually applauded what I was doing and give me some information.
[00:09:59]  And I did that with another researcher whose name I forget right now.
[00:10:04]  But anyway, I've went through a lot of things in a lot of years.
[00:10:07]  And it was apparent to me that the old guard was not involved.
[00:10:15]  And there were involvements of the CIA, but very, very seldom was it ever an assassination because they don't do that.
[00:10:22]  They don't kill people very well.
[00:10:24]  Who doesn't?
[00:10:25]  The CIA.
[00:10:26]  They don't shoot people.
[00:10:28]  But they tried to get.
[00:10:31]  Well, the paramilitary branch does.
[00:10:34]  Yeah, you can say that if you want.
[00:10:35]  But the thing is.
[00:10:37]  I mean, they conducted a lot of assassinations over the years.
[00:10:40]  Yeah, but.
[00:10:42]  It's not the same thing that we're talking about here.
[00:10:45]  Okay, so there are all kinds of things in some of those small countries in the Caribbean and elsewhere down there.
[00:10:53]  The American Republic.
[00:10:54]  Yeah.
[00:10:55]  But they're not CIA people.
[00:10:57]  They're agents working for the CIA.
[00:10:59]  And so they can't be prosecuted for because they didn't do any shooting.
[00:11:06]  But there was one time when they tried to use the CIA in a shooting.
[00:11:17]  Which was, who was it?
[00:11:20]  This guy was a mobster, and I'm forgetting his name right now.
[00:11:24]  Okay.
[00:11:25]  But they decided is it Giancana?
[00:11:31]  It was either Giancana, one of the big mobsters.
[00:11:34]  They wanted, it wasn't Giancana, but they wanted to kill him.
[00:11:39]  And wanted to kill who?
[00:11:41]  The mobster.
[00:11:43]  Who?
[00:11:44]  Wait, wait, I'm lost.
[00:11:45]  Who wanted to kill the mobster?
[00:11:46]  The CIA.
[00:11:46]  The CIA wanted to kill the mobster.
[00:11:48]  Got it, okay.
[00:11:48]  That's right.
[00:11:50]  And so they hired some people to do it.
[00:11:55]  And what happened was the people that were in on that were a bunch of mobsters.
[00:12:04]  And they didn't do the killing because they realized that since the CIA had hired them to do murder, they could do anything they wanted for the rest of their lives.
[00:12:16]  It was the goose that laid the golden egg.
[00:12:18]  And the CIA was so stupid to hire a bunch of those people because they didn't do the killing.
[00:12:23]  No, it was to kill Castro.
[00:12:25]  It was to kill Castro, to use the mob to kill Castro.
[00:12:28]  And they hired him.
[00:12:29]  They hired these people to do it.
[00:12:33]  And they said to themselves, this is great.
[00:12:36]  And so they started doing stuff.
[00:12:38]  And they got busted and arrested.
[00:12:41]  And then Bobby Kennedy had to step in and say, you can't prosecute.
[00:12:46]  You can't prosecute.
[00:12:47]  Why not?
[00:12:47]  Well, because it's going to unravel what we're doing with the CIA.
[00:12:55]  Wow.
[00:12:56]  Now, that is the one time that I know that there was a deliberate plan at the highest levels in the CIA, not just some freaks, you know, running around paying some guys down in Guatemala like that.
[00:13:16]  But, yeah, that was, and they learned their lesson because they were never able to prosecute them for anything.
[00:13:24]  And they had all kinds of stuff going on because of it.
[00:13:28]  And eventually they realized that that was the absolute wrong thing to do because you don't hire a mob to do assassinations.
[00:13:38]  You can hire somebody else that you can actually push around, but you can't push around.
[00:13:42]  Look, the mobsters are big guys who are connected to all kinds of power, right?
[00:13:48]  And that was a stupid move that they made.
[00:13:52]  So you want to hire, if you want somebody to die, You have plenty of people over there in the Pentagon that'll take care of that for you.
[00:14:02]  In the Pentagon.
[00:14:03]  Yeah.
[00:14:04]  Sure.
[00:14:05]  But they do it and get away with it because they're that good.
[00:14:09]  Right.
[00:14:10]  They have sniper teams.
[00:14:12]  Right.
[00:14:12]  So the reason I wanted to bring you back, John, is because we got a lot to cover.
[00:14:15]  We covered a lot of Pop Pop's Mole last time you were here, which was fascinating.
[00:14:19]  And I wanted to cover more of what was going on behind the scenes leading up to the assassination of JFK.
[00:14:26]  Yep.
[00:14:27]  And like we were talking about yesterday, One of the frustrating things is all you see in the media or on the internet when you search for the JFK assassination is people talking about what happened on November 22nd, 1963, in Dealey Plaza.
[00:14:45]  And you don't talk about that day very much.
[00:14:49]  Yeah, I will be talking more about it, but it's, it's, uh, you have to understand that, that what happens there is the cover up.
[00:14:59]  It's not, The real story is who decided that Kennedy was going to be cashiered and how they got away with it.

=== The Real Story of the Cover-Up (08:23) ===

[00:15:09]  So, if all you do is start talking about, you know, the bullet went here and the head was this way, and you argue about that incessantly.
[00:15:20]  People love that, though, because it's so much more attractive to talk about that stuff.
[00:15:24]  Except they argue with each other and get they're venal.
[00:15:28]  I mean, it's crazy.
[00:15:30]  People start arguing about the brains and body parts and everything else.
[00:15:34]  And tons of arguments about exactly the head was this way, and the throat wound, and the one in the back, they moved it, somebody moved it up.
[00:15:46]  It was Gerald Ford who became a president.
[00:15:49]  That guy moves the back wound up so it can fit with somebody's single bullet theory.
[00:15:57]  So you give all kinds of things.
[00:15:59]  And then what this causes is people to keep talking about that stuff and arguing about that stuff.
[00:16:04]  Now, some people are smarter than others, but there are only a handful of them that can actually deal with forensics because they're trained in forensics.
[00:16:11]  We have hundreds of people who have no training in forensics arguing about it all the time on the internet.
[00:16:19]  Okay, so understand that this is what is so frustrating.
[00:16:24]  And nobody is paying attention to who was behind it and how they got away with it.
[00:16:30]  That's what the CIA did most of was the cover-up, to put it in place beforehand and not tell the head of the CIA.
[00:16:36]  It was at that time Macomb.
[00:16:38]  He had no idea what they were doing.
[00:16:41]  So this is not the whole CIA.
[00:16:43]  It's a rogue element that is actually just operating with how to get away with the plan.
[00:16:49]  In other words, how are you going to shoot the president?
[00:16:52]  And once that happens, nothing's going to happen.
[00:16:55]  In fact, the FBI and the CIA are going to be scared to do anything at all.
[00:17:01]  There was no investigation except for the Warren report.
[00:17:05]  And Earl Warren went along with a top secret deal that they made, which was he was told that the hit was done by Castro and the KGB, and Oswald was the shooter.
[00:17:23]  And so if The truth got out.
[00:17:26]  The American people would instantly demand war, and 40,000 million Americans were going to die.
[00:17:35]  That story was actually put before Earl Warren, and he eventually caved in and said, Okay, now that you put it that way, I guess I'll have to take the job.
[00:17:46]  So you see, he's a chief justice, and this is an executive commission.
[00:17:52]  We're supposed to have a separation between Those two parts of our government.
[00:17:59]  So, what if something happens and the Chief Justice has to recuse himself because there's litigation?
[00:18:07]  He didn't want to do it for obvious reasons.
[00:18:11]  But they told him, and LBJ just said, I just told him a little story about Mexico City, and he cried.
[00:18:21]  And then he said, Okay, I'll have to take the story.
[00:18:24]  And believe it or not.
[00:18:25]  Who cried?
[00:18:27]  Earl Warren.
[00:18:29]  Yeah.
[00:18:29]  When.
[00:18:31]  He was being bamboozled and pushed around, you know, to go along with this story.
[00:18:39]  Wow.
[00:18:40]  And so he actually vouched for the story himself.
[00:18:45]  Earl Warren did on TV.
[00:18:48]  Right.
[00:18:48]  Where I live, W E T A in Washington.
[00:18:50]  The only thing he left out was he cried.
[00:18:53]  The rest of it was they said, Mr. President, it's going to be 40 million dead Americans if you don't do this.
[00:19:00]  And he said on TV.
[00:19:02]  I.
[00:19:04]  I guess I better take the job if that's the case.
[00:19:06]  Wow.
[00:19:09]  Now, therefore, there was a non investigation.
[00:19:12]  That was the whole point to kill the president, and there's no investigation.
[00:19:16]  There's just some stuff that the FBI makes up.
[00:19:19]  And of course, guess who?
[00:19:20]  Hoover is going to say all kinds of stuff to make sure that the FBI has nothing to do with anything.
[00:19:24]  And they did.
[00:19:26]  As you will know, as you've seen some of the slides that I will deal with today, show how the FBI.
[00:19:34]  Lowered Oswald's threat profile so that he could be on the parade route.
[00:19:38]  And when Hoover found out about that, he went sky high.
[00:19:42]  So, but Hoover was the one who got to put the report together.
[00:19:46]  And you can believe that the FBI didn't have anything to do with it because Hoover doesn't want that, right?
[00:19:52]  So it scared the CIA, a lot of people in the CIA that had been watching Oswald.
[00:19:58]  And the public thing was, oh, he was a lone nut.
[00:20:01]  And we never touched the CIA.
[00:20:04]  We, the CIA, never had anything to do with him.
[00:20:07]  We weren't even interested in him.
[00:20:09]  And when in fact there were tons of people who were.
[00:20:13]  In the CIA and else in the FBI and elsewhere in the government that were keeping files on Oswald the entire time, all the way back to 1959 and all the way up to 1963.
[00:20:25]  And all this information has been declassified?
[00:20:27]  Yes, we know a lot about that now.
[00:20:29]  That's so weird.
[00:20:30]  We know a lot about that now.
[00:20:32]  And so, yes, but they so now the official position of the CIA, as far as I can understand it, is no comment.
[00:20:40]  They used to deny everything.
[00:20:42]  It has been declassified, but no comment.
[00:20:46]  If you want to go dig through the they were the ones that did not declassifying.
[00:20:49]  It was taken away from them by the JFK Records Act.
[00:20:52]  Right.
[00:20:52]  There were a group of people that couldn't ever have worked in Washington.
[00:20:57]  They were put in charge, the Assassination Records Review Board.
[00:21:00]  And those are the people who decided what would be declassified and what wouldn't be.
[00:21:05]  And of course, the CIA would be begging, you know, not do this or not do that, but they couldn't.
[00:21:09]  They didn't have the power.
[00:21:12]  So there was a lot of declassification going on.
[00:21:15]  And so that's why I'm telling you that there are current people in the CIA that don't want me saying what's been declassified because they don't want anybody to know about that.
[00:21:25]  Do you realize the people that I'm teaching in my school now were born in the 21st century?
[00:21:30]  They have no recollection of any of this stuff that we're talking about.
[00:21:33]  So if I talk about it now, I'm informing a new generation of people about what happened back then.
[00:21:39]  What do you think is the most damning evidence against the government or against the military?
[00:21:46]  In general, or against the CIA in general, that you've found through all of your research?
[00:21:50]  Like, what is the most convincing evidence?
[00:21:54]  The last six weeks of Kennedy's life.
[00:21:56]  The last six weeks.
[00:21:58]  All the suppression of the 201 files.
[00:22:00]  There are at least four, if not five, different sets of activities that took place at the same time, all at the same time, that ended up in Kennedy's murder and had to.
[00:22:14]  Otherwise, Oswald wouldn't have been on the parade route for one thing, and there are many other reasons why.
[00:22:21]  We're getting ahead of this.
[00:22:21]  Let's get into it.
[00:22:22]  Let's get into it.
[00:22:22]  Okay.
[00:22:23]  So, in your view, what is the most important pieces, or pieces of evidence, that you have revealed in regards to the assassination of President Kennedy?
[00:22:35]  Okay.
[00:22:36]  It's a very large operation.
[00:22:37]  It took a long time to prepare.
[00:22:41]  I've been working on it probably for 12 years, planning to publish, and it keeps moving downstream because I keep finding other things, especially about spy services, that make it better.
[00:22:55]  And so, but making it better could go on forever.
[00:22:58]  So November of last year, I started, went to Duquesne University and gave a 40-minute presentation for the first time on what I think happened in the assassination of President Kennedy and how they got away with it.
[00:23:12]  And so today, we're going to get deeper into that.
[00:23:17]  And hopefully, I can use you as well as what I have here to have a conversation where we don't go too deep because each one of these slides has A ton of material that goes behind it, and we could be here for a week talking about it.

=== McNamara's Secret Vietnam Plans (07:37) ===

[00:23:33]  So, I'm going to start by saying that there are a confluence of events that took place in the last six weeks of Kennedy's life.
[00:23:42]  So, we're talking about September, about the time that Taylor and McNamara come back from a Vietnam tour.
[00:23:49]  And so, but some of the antecedents were taking place earlier, some very much earlier, but I'm going to mention one of them now because it's about Armageddon, it's Op Plan 34A, which is on our screen here.
[00:24:04]  Now, it is.
[00:24:07]  Plan 34A has a history here, and it starts out with the Joint Chiefs of Staff ordering the Commander-in-Chief Pacific, he's right there on your screen, Admiral Felt, to prepare plans for South Vietnamese operations against North Vietnam.
[00:24:28]  And so that started to take place in May of 1963 at a Secretary of Defense conference.
[00:24:38]  At the beginning, when SyncPAC, the Commander in Chief Pacific, put this together, it was a SyncPAC operational plan, 3463 to 63 is for 1963.
[00:24:51]  Over time, it changes.
[00:24:53]  And so what happens is, at that particular SecDef conference, this guy here, who's Lieutenant General Krulak, who is a SACSA guy, he's is for a different kind of warfare.
[00:25:16]  And he was at a very high level in the Pentagon, but he came to that Secretary of Defense conference, which is very interesting why he would even be there participating.
[00:25:26]  But he's the one who put forward the proposal to do this for SyncPAC.
[00:25:35]  And so it's reported at that conference separately by this man, General Krulak.
[00:25:43]  Now, the problem with it, SACSA stands for Special Assistance for Counterinsurgency Activities.
[00:25:49]  That was his job, high up in the Pentagon.
[00:25:53]  But what happened was it disappeared.
[00:25:56]  This piece, the rest of that conference, you can look at it.
[00:26:04]  But the problem with the OP plan, it went away.
[00:26:08]  And the State Department heard about it and said, we can't find it.
[00:26:13]  It's gone.
[00:26:13]  There's no such thing.
[00:26:15]  No such report has been found.
[00:26:17]  Well, of course, it couldn't be found because as soon as Kruleck briefed it, it was made secret and taken out of it so nobody could see it.
[00:26:27]  How did you find it?
[00:26:28]  Well, because we have it now.
[00:26:31]  But that's what happened at the time.
[00:26:34]  That's what happened at the time.
[00:26:35]  We have.
[00:26:35]  This was declassified later.
[00:26:37]  Yes, we have the op plan, et cetera.
[00:26:40]  But anyway, at the time, they didn't want anybody to know about it.
[00:26:47]  Right.
[00:26:47]  And you know how long it took before people knew about this particular plan?
[00:26:52]  How long?
[00:26:52]  Two days before Kennedy was murdered at another SecDev conference on 20 November 1963 in Honolulu, yes.
[00:27:01]  That's how long they kept this secret, but that's when it really started, in May.
[00:27:05]  In May, okay.
[00:27:06]  Okay.
[00:27:08]  And so in the end, this guy here, General Maxwell Taylor, is going to be the one who puts it into play after Kennedy is dead.
[00:27:21]  He was the one who went with McNamara.
[00:27:24]  To Vietnam in September and came back.
[00:27:28]  And on the way back, they had the plan which said that what Kennedy wanted, which was to start the withdrawal of American advisors from Vietnam that year.
[00:27:41]  He comes back, and they're at Honolulu on the way back home, right?
[00:27:46]  They went to Vietnam, stopped over in Honolulu, and on the way there, there's this guy from the State Department who says he was actually working in the embassy in Vietnam, and he said, Look, We're not taking people out.
[00:28:00]  We've got to put more people in.
[00:28:02]  If you guys are going to do this, I'm going to do a dissenting opinion.
[00:28:05]  And so they said, Taylor said, fine, we'll take it out.
[00:28:13]  And they did.
[00:28:14]  And so you have a copy of the report as it stood at Honolulu, and there's no withdrawal of advisors.
[00:28:21]  It's gone.
[00:28:22]  The stopover in Honolulu is on the 20th?
[00:28:24]  No.
[00:28:25]  Okay, it's way before.
[00:28:26]  No, it's not way before.
[00:28:27]  It's very soon before.
[00:28:28]  It's just a stopover.
[00:28:29]  It's a couple of days.
[00:28:30]  Okay.
[00:28:31]  But they take it out.
[00:28:33]  And we have a copy of the way that it looked in because we know it was out.
[00:28:37]  But when they get back, it's end of September, it's late September, they get back, they go into the Oval Office, and there's a lot of people there for the briefing.
[00:28:50]  And they get up, the two of them, Kennedy and Taylor get up, and McNamara get up and walk to the next room, and they put the withdrawal plan back in.
[00:29:02]  And they come back out and debrief everybody.
[00:29:05]  They took it.
[00:29:05]  Okay, let me recap.
[00:29:06]  So in Honolulu, the guy who was at the embassy in Saigon basically said, If you guys say you want to take people out of Saigon, I'm going to write a dissenting opinion and cause a shit show.
[00:29:21]  And they said, Okay, okay, fine.
[00:29:23]  We're going to take it out.
[00:29:24]  We'll take it out of the plan.
[00:29:26]  And then when they go back to the Oval Office to meet Kennedy and McNamara, they slide Kennedy's plan back in.
[00:29:34]  McNamara is there.
[00:29:35]  Right, so McNamara was there, and so was Taylor.
[00:29:38]  Oh, so so McNamara knew about this, yes.
[00:29:40]  But what he didn't know is that these guys wanted not to do it.
[00:29:46]  But if if if Taylor starts saying, I disagree with what you're doing, then he's going to give himself away.
[00:29:54]  He knows that he's going to be the one doing it, right?
[00:29:57]  And everybody is completely flummoxed by it, and there's a lot of dissension going on in the room, and the rest of the day down in the basement.
[00:30:07]  Of the White House.
[00:30:08]  It's the same thing people are saying.
[00:30:10]  This is crazy.
[00:30:10]  We can't take people.
[00:30:11]  We can't take people out.
[00:30:12]  We can't take people out of Vietnam.
[00:30:13]  That's right.
[00:30:15]  So that's what's going on.
[00:30:17]  Now, Taylor doesn't raise his voice about anything.
[00:30:22]  He's the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
[00:30:25]  He's the one who gets to make decisions about these types of things.
[00:30:27]  And so what he does for the next six weeks of Kennedy's life is to gut the withdrawal plan and at the same time, Stand up op plan 34A secretly.
[00:30:41]  Both of those things he did behind McNamara's and Kennedy's back for those last six weeks of his life.
[00:30:46]  Oh, McNamara didn't even know.
[00:30:47]  No, okay, they didn't tell McNamara.
[00:30:49]  McNamara was on Kennedy's side.
[00:30:51]  Okay, God, I didn't know.
[00:30:52]  Taylor was supposed to be, but he wasn't, he was waiting for his moment, and that's what they did.
[00:31:00]  It's terrible.
[00:31:01]  The day the data that I can show you that what was left out of the plan is is is is like 78 percent of it was gone.
[00:31:09]  Wow.

=== Unlocking New Languages with Babel (02:03) ===

[00:31:10]  And we can get into the details of it.
[00:31:12]  But anyway, that is one thing that was going on in those six weeks.
[00:31:16]  And we got three or four more to lay right beside him.
[00:31:20]  So all these things had to happen at the same time in order for this to work.
[00:31:26]  So, we'll go ahead and move to the next piece of evidence, which is what are we going to do with Oswald?
[00:31:35]  Number three, lowering Oswald's threat level.
[00:31:38]  At Vanderbilt University on May 18th, 1963, John F. Kennedy said, Our progress as a nation can be no swifter than our progress in education.
[00:31:46]  Continuous learning is what makes our country so great.
[00:31:49]  And one of my goals for this channel is not just to entertain, but for everyone to learn.
[00:31:53]  And one of the best ways to do so is by learning a new language.
[00:31:56]  One in five Americans has learning a new language on their bucket list.
[00:32:00]  And if that's you, make 2024 your year by checking that off your bucket list with Babel.
[00:32:06]  Babel's quick 10 minute lessons are handcrafted by over 200 language experts to help you start speaking a new language in as little as three weeks.
[00:32:13]  I always binge Babel's courses when I'm gearing up to go on a trip.
[00:32:16]  It helps me to prepare my conversational skills so I can deal with real people in real life situations when I'm ordering food or asking for directions or dealing with merchants.
[00:32:25]  And to me, what helps set Babel above the rest is their speech recognition technology, which helps hone in your accent and pronunciation.
[00:32:32]  Studies from Yale, Michigan State, and others continue to prove Babel is better.
[00:32:36]  One study found that using Babel for 15 hours is equivalent to a full semester at college.
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[00:32:49]  And here's a special limited time deal for our listeners.
[00:32:52]  Right now, get 50% off a one time payment for a lifetime Babel subscription, but only for our listeners at babel.comslash Danny.
[00:33:01]  Again, get 50% off at babel.comslash Danny.
[00:33:04]  That's spelled B A B B E L. Rules and restrictions may apply.
[00:33:11]  It's linked below.
[00:33:12]  Now back to the show.

=== Declassified Files on Oswald (15:36) ===

[00:33:13]  This was very sinister.
[00:33:15]  Well, because if Oswald, who was a communist defector, right, back in 1959, and at this time, what is he doing?
[00:33:25]  He's down in Mexico City trying to defect a second time.
[00:33:29]  Right.
[00:33:30]  All right.
[00:33:30]  To the Soviet Union through Cuba, right?
[00:33:33]  Yeah.
[00:33:33]  And it says in his passport that that's illegal, that you can go back if you want.
[00:33:40]  To the Soviet Union, but you can't go through Cuba.
[00:33:42]  So, what does he do?
[00:33:43]  He goes down and says, I want to go through Cuba.
[00:33:46]  But the problem with this is that a two time communist defector in an overview position of the parade route, you can't imagine that happening because the Secret Service removes anybody who's on the list of people that are a threat.
[00:34:09]  They have to take them off.
[00:34:11]  The security list, the security index, it's called.
[00:34:13]  Okay.
[00:34:14]  And so we to get to now the FBI is the one that does that, not the CIA.
[00:34:21]  But the CIA is taking care of business here by lowering his threat profile.
[00:34:25]  And so it was October when he was in Mexico City trying to defect, yes.
[00:34:32]  And he and what happened was the person in the embassy in Mexico City called up CIA, right?
[00:34:40]  And they said, There's this guy down here, he's trying to defect.
[00:34:42]  His name is Wynn Scott, Wynn Scott, he's in charge.
[00:34:46]  Down there in Mexico City, and he doesn't know who this guy Oswald is.
[00:34:49]  And he's going all around to these communist consulates and he asks, Who is this guy?
[00:34:54]  Right?
[00:34:55]  And so a lot of people knew what Oswald was doing in New Orleans.
[00:35:01]  It's all he was on the news, he was in a courtroom, and he was put in a jail.
[00:35:07]  And Hoover wrote letterhead memoranda that summer to the CIA.
[00:35:12]  But guess what happened to it?
[00:35:14]  It got filed in places where nobody could find it.
[00:35:17]  At the CIA, except for a couple of people.
[00:35:21]  And here's my evidence right here.
[00:35:25]  These, what we're looking at here is a combination of things.
[00:35:29]  Where did you find this?
[00:35:30]  These are declassified documents.
[00:35:33]  And these are the pieces of them.
[00:35:34]  These are the routing and record sheets that show everybody in the CIA who actually saw these things that Hoover sent.
[00:35:43]  And they had to initial with their initials and date.
[00:35:46]  So we know who actually had access to it.
[00:35:48]  And it's only a few people, it's only like three or four people in the whole CIA.
[00:35:53]  And one of them was Jane Romance.
[00:35:54]  She was the.
[00:35:58]  She was the liaison for counterintelligence in the CIA.
[00:36:06]  And so she had access to it.
[00:36:07]  You can see counterintelligence liaison right here.
[00:36:10]  And there's Jane Roman.
[00:36:11]  There's her little initials.
[00:36:12]  Okay.
[00:36:12]  And that was on this report here.
[00:36:14]  This report was about everything Oswald was doing in Dallas and so on.
[00:36:17]  And this is the next one that came in.
[00:36:19]  And this is in October, okay?
[00:36:22]  September and October.
[00:36:24]  This stuff is coming.
[00:36:25]  It's.
[00:36:26]  Dated here, but you can see the people are signing off on it in October over here.
[00:36:30]  It's going and making the rounds.
[00:36:33]  And these are the people that know.
[00:36:35]  And these are just reports on his activities in Dallas and in New Orleans.
[00:36:40]  That's right.
[00:36:43]  And Mexico City.
[00:36:45]  That's right.
[00:36:47]  They're trying to figure out what's happening down there in Mexico City.
[00:36:51]  Now, what ends up happening is that when who's going to answer the call or the cable?
[00:37:00]  At CIA and at FBI.
[00:37:02]  Let's do the CIA first.
[00:37:03]  And so it's a guy by the name of John Witten.
[00:37:06]  He's the guy who has the desk at CIA headquarters to communicate with Winston Scott.
[00:37:11]  That's his job.
[00:37:13]  He's got the Mexico City desk.
[00:37:16]  So he's the one who has to tell Winston Scott who this guy is.
[00:37:20]  Okay.
[00:37:21]  And he says, oh, he looks at the 201 file for the guy and says, yeah, well, our latest headquarters information is May 62.
[00:37:30]  Oswald is still in the Soviet Union in May 62.
[00:37:34]  It's all gone.
[00:37:36]  He's the guy who's supposed to know what's happening and who can answer the question.
[00:37:42]  But it's all gone.
[00:37:43]  So nobody in the CIA except for these few people know about it.
[00:37:47]  So that's when I decided to go see Jane Roman.
[00:37:52]  Jeff Morley and I went over, got our address on Rock Creek Park, and I showed her these documents, what were behind the routing sheets.
[00:38:01]  The actual documents that Hoover sent.
[00:38:04]  And I said, Do you remember reading this?
[00:38:05]  And she said, Yeah, sure.
[00:38:07]  I remember reading it.
[00:38:08]  And we talked about that.
[00:38:09]  I got her to remember everything that she read on these things.
[00:38:13]  And you signed off on them.
[00:38:14]  Yeah, I did.
[00:38:15]  Yeah, I did.
[00:38:15]  I said, Well, why did you sign off on this one down here?
[00:38:19]  Latest headquarters information is May 62 when you were signing off on these things in October of 63.
[00:38:26]  And then her mouth smiled.
[00:38:30]  And the sides went up towards the ears.
[00:38:32]  And she said, She said she knew it.
[00:38:33]  Okay, okay.
[00:38:35]  This is what she said.
[00:38:37]  Yes, I'm signing off on something I know isn't true.
[00:38:41]  Wow.
[00:38:42]  She took a lot of heat for that, too.
[00:38:44]  Really?
[00:38:45]  Yes, she did.
[00:38:45]  They really made her life difficult.
[00:38:47]  Anyway, so I asked her, I said, well, why would you do this?
[00:38:55]  What do you think about this false cable that Whitten wrote?
[00:38:58]  And she says to me, well, to me, it's indicative of a keen interest in Oswald, held very closely on a need to know basis.
[00:39:07]  What that does, it blows through countless years of denial that they had any interest in Oswald at all.
[00:39:14]  I mean, look at it.
[00:39:16]  Yeah.
[00:39:17]  This is the liaison person at the highest levels who's saying.
[00:39:21]  She's admitting she lied.
[00:39:23]  She's admitting that the United States Central Intelligence Agency had a keen interest in Oswald held very closely on a need to know basis.
[00:39:32]  Right.
[00:39:34]  That's why they were mad at her because she let it out.
[00:39:40]  Okay, so it's important to understand this is going on.
[00:39:45]  And that's why I like to show you this picture here.
[00:39:49]  That's the book depository.
[00:39:52]  And so if Oswald's up here, And this guy is a two time commie defector and a Castro guy.
[00:40:02]  What's he doing up there?
[00:40:05]  He should be on the security index.
[00:40:08]  And, you know, here he is with the rifle that was supposedly used up there in his backyard, being a so called picture taken by Marina, his wife.
[00:40:18]  But the shadows are all wrong and everything's on.
[00:40:21]  Anyway, I like to just put this down here at the bottom of that picture a flea at an ISOL party.
[00:40:27]  A flea at a Lysol party.
[00:40:29]  Yeah.
[00:40:30]  Uh huh.
[00:40:31]  In other words, the odds of this being true, that this guy's supposed to be up there, is about like what happened to a flea at a Lysol convention.
[00:40:40]  It doesn't happen.
[00:40:41]  It's crazy.
[00:40:41]  It's stupid.
[00:40:43]  So I thought I'd make a little joke of that, okay, just for some humor.
[00:40:46]  But it's not humorous, actually, because Kennedy's going to die.
[00:40:52]  Anyway, so.
[00:40:53]  But they completely removed any sort of threat level on the FBI and the CIA.
[00:40:57]  So he could have been there.
[00:40:58]  We've done the CIA.
[00:41:00]  Now comes the next one, comes the FBI.
[00:41:04]  We have independent attestation of the same hoax going on at CIA and FBI.
[00:41:09]  So veteran FBI supervisor, his name is Marvin Giesling, was assigned to handle the same unexpected cable from Mexico City as Witten did.
[00:41:20]  He worked for the FBI's espionage division for a long time, and he had been put in charge of Oswald's FBI espionage file when he defected to the Soviet Union back in 1959.
[00:41:32]  Okay.
[00:41:33]  At that time, Giesling immediately put Oswald on what they called a flash stop on anything in that file.
[00:41:42]  You couldn't read it and you couldn't put anything in there without his permission because he was the one who owned that.
[00:41:47]  And it was very, very sensitive for lots of reasons that all these United States, the State Department and the Navy and everybody else had gone crazy.
[00:41:57]  This is October 1959.
[00:41:59]  Okay.
[00:42:00]  But the problem is now we go forward.
[00:42:04]  To 1963.
[00:42:08]  Exactly four years after Oswald's defection, Giesling, too, had to reply to the request from Scott.
[00:42:15]  Scott from Mexico City.
[00:42:16]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:42:17]  Win Scott.
[00:42:18]  And incredibly, after all those years, including all of Oswald's lures in Mexico and his Castro capers in New Orleans, Giesling swallows hard because he knows.
[00:42:28]  See, Witten didn't know, right?
[00:42:31]  Because Witten had the 201 file.
[00:42:33]  He didn't lie.
[00:42:34]  The 201 file lied to him because everything was taken out of it.
[00:42:36]  Right.
[00:42:37]  Okay, over here, this guy knows because he's got the file.
[00:42:40]  He's got the whole file on Oswald going all the way back to 59.
[00:42:44]  He was the one in charge of it.
[00:42:46]  So he does the same thing.
[00:42:49]  But he has to swallow hard when he does it because he knows what he's doing.
[00:42:53]  Right?
[00:42:53]  So he straight up lies.
[00:42:55]  He takes this shocking act of avoiding Oswald's threat status by removing the flash stop.
[00:43:01]  So now the red light stops spinning in the FBI about Oswald.
[00:43:06]  So he's okay.
[00:43:08]  So he's not on the security index.
[00:43:10]  Therefore, he's not removed from the parade route.
[00:43:14]  The FBI is the one charged with doing this.
[00:43:16]  So, what happens when Mexico City desk calls Giesling?
[00:43:19]  He tells them that there's nothing to worry about.
[00:43:24]  And he knows there is.
[00:43:26]  What was their question?
[00:43:27]  They say this guy's trying to defect.
[00:43:29]  Who is he?
[00:43:29]  Well, he doesn't say very much.
[00:43:30]  He just says here, he removes the flash stop on Oswald.
[00:43:36]  Okay.
[00:43:36]  Anyway, the point is that what we do know about this is when Hoover found out what he did.
[00:43:47]  Hoover punished him for his perfidy and disciplined many more agents.
[00:43:52]  Because they didn't react to Scott's memo.
[00:43:56]  So essentially, they're not doing the same, they're not saying very much.
[00:44:01]  Right?
[00:44:02]  Marvin Giesling is not saying very much.
[00:44:04]  He has the memo from Winscott asking the question what does he do?
[00:44:10]  He doesn't say very much to Winscott, but he takes Oswald and removes the flash, so Oswald is now no longer going to be on the security index.
[00:44:21]  Right.
[00:44:23]  Now you have the flashing red lights turned off in the CIA and the FBI.
[00:44:30]  Look, and this is October.
[00:44:32]  And why did Giesling do this?
[00:44:34]  Why do you suspect Giesling did this?
[00:44:38]  Okay, here's my answer.
[00:44:40]  Now, by the way, here's the proof right here.
[00:44:44]  You can see this is a document that was declassified.
[00:44:48]  You can see that the flash was put on, the stop was put on back in 1959 when Oswald was in.
[00:44:54]  And he was in the Soviet Union.
[00:44:55]  Yeah, right, right, right.
[00:44:56]  He's done that.
[00:44:57]  And now here we are in October 9th, 1963, when it's flashed, it's canceled.
[00:45:04]  So that's when he's in Mexico City in 1963, October 9th.
[00:45:06]  Yes.
[00:45:07]  And now to answer your question, why Giesling was never deposed and asked directly why he removed Oswald from the FBI's espionage list or who told him to do it is one of the crucial lingering questions unsolved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
[00:45:23]  Nobody knows.
[00:45:24]  He was never deposed.
[00:45:24]  Nobody ever asked.
[00:45:25]  He was disciplined.
[00:45:28]  But by Hoover, yes, and a lot of other people were too.
[00:45:33]  But that was the end of it.
[00:45:34]  Hoover doesn't want any of this stuff to come out.
[00:45:37]  That's crazy.
[00:45:38]  So, this is work with what we have, and that's what we're seeing here.
[00:45:43]  Now, these are two things that I've already described.
[00:45:47]  We know what Taylor's up to.
[00:45:50]  Look, they got back, uh, it just was the end of September, so it was in early October that NSAM 263.
[00:45:58]  Kennedy put there secretly at first.
[00:46:00]  What was NSAM 263?
[00:46:02]  The withdrawing of 1,000 U.S. advisors from Vietnam by the end of 1963 and all out by 65.
[00:46:11]  And that was what was taken out of the plan in Honolulu and then put back into the plan when they showed it to the president in Honolulu.
[00:46:18]  Yeah, and it had everybody very upset.
[00:46:21]  Because nobody wanted to withdraw from Vietnam except for Kennedy.
[00:46:24]  He was the only one.
[00:46:25]  Yeah.
[00:46:26]  Well, McNamara was going to help him do that.
[00:46:28]  Right, right, okay.
[00:46:29]  Yeah.
[00:46:30]  And at the same time, simultaneously, the FBI and the CIA are lowering Oswald's threat on their espionage list.
[00:46:38]  Did you ask Jane Roman what her opinion was on this whole thing?
[00:46:43]  I did.
[00:46:44]  And she told me the answer.
[00:46:45]  This is indicative of very high level, keen interest in Oswald on a need to know basis.
[00:46:52]  Nobody, that's what she said.
[00:46:56]  She is essentially like the closest living person to this whole conversation.
[00:47:00]  This whole cover up.
[00:47:02]  Well, and Geisling is too.
[00:47:03]  Is he still alive?
[00:47:04]  Oh, I don't know if he's alive or not right now.
[00:47:06]  Probably not.
[00:47:08]  She's probably dead too.
[00:47:09]  Oh, you think?
[00:47:10]  Okay.
[00:47:10]  Well, chances are.
[00:47:14]  How long ago was that when you talked to her?
[00:47:15]  Maybe.
[00:47:16]  2000s?
[00:47:16]  Yeah, 2000s.
[00:47:18]  So let's go to some of the other things that were happening at the same time.
[00:47:23]  The Buddhist crisis is one of the things that started Kennedy on changing his mind about a lot of things.
[00:47:32]  He hadn't done much for Martin Luther King, even though he helped get him in office, and MLK was angry over that.
[00:47:39]  Kennedy didn't do anything about civil rights.
[00:47:42]  He didn't do anything about détente with the Soviet Union.
[00:47:46]  And he didn't do anything about getting out of Vietnam.
[00:47:48]  He wanted to get out of Vietnam, but he thought he could wait until he got reelected.
[00:47:52]  But the problem was this thing right here.
[00:47:56]  Yeah, where the Buddhist lit himself on fire.
[00:47:58]  Yeah, the political bottom dropped out in Vietnam.
[00:48:01]  Right.
[00:48:02]  So he had, so what he was faced with was he had to accelerate the withdrawal plan.
[00:48:08]  Instead of it starting in 50, after the election in 60, late 64, it was now going to have to start right away to get it cast in concrete, as he said.
[00:48:18]  And so he went to, you know, to American University.
[00:48:22]  And gave this speech nobody knew was coming about detente with the Soviet Union.
[00:48:28]  And then the very next night, he goes on TV and says how terrible it's been.
[00:48:33]  He hasn't done anything on civil rights and he wants to do that now.
[00:48:37]  And it was a long speech and very, it's an amazing speech.
[00:48:43]  And so the only thing he didn't say publicly was the withdrawal stuff because that was secret.

=== The Psyop Meeting in Albania (10:30) ===

[00:48:50]  And he didn't put it into an NSAM until they got back.
[00:48:53]  He sent McNamara and Taylor over there to look around, come back, and recommend that it was time to get out.
[00:48:58]  And they did.
[00:49:00]  And Taylor did.
[00:49:01]  He participated in that, even though he knew he was going to do the opposite.
[00:49:07]  He is, as I say, he's a Trojan horse inside the house.
[00:49:11]  Okay.
[00:49:12]  Now, there's an important element to Taylor.
[00:49:15]  He was one of the only generals who cozied up to, was it Bobby Kennedy?
[00:49:21]  So he became very close family friends with Bobby Kennedy.
[00:49:25]  And.
[00:49:27]  That's why you say he was a Trojan horse because he wanted to be the one that was liked by them and trusted by them and became.
[00:49:34]  I think Bobby Kennedy named one of his children after Maxwell Taylor, right?
[00:49:37]  You made Maxwell?
[00:49:40]  Yeah, Maxwell Kennedy.
[00:49:41]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:49:43]  Kennedy brought Taylor into the fold to lead, along with Robert Kennedy, his brother, who was the attorney general, a review of the fiasco of the Bay of Pigs.
[00:49:57]  And why did Kennedy bring Taylor in?
[00:49:58]  Because he thought that Taylor was.
[00:50:00]  Better than the other generals because he advocated less reliance on the old doctrine of massive nuclear retaliation in response to any Soviet attack.
[00:50:09]  He thought Taylor favored what he called flexible response in war.
[00:50:15]  Flexible response.
[00:50:16]  Yeah.
[00:50:16]  So you didn't have to use nuclear weapons every time you got into a firefight.
[00:50:19]  Right.
[00:50:20]  Well, but like other Joint Chiefs of Staff, he was a hawk who favored intervention in Vietnam.
[00:50:26]  He didn't say much about it because he was kissing Bobby's ass most of the time and getting into the Into the family, not just, you know, working as a, as a, uh, a military aide to, to Kennedy.
[00:50:40]  Um, it was much more than that.
[00:50:43]  And so that's where the Trojan horse starts, stuff starts.
[00:50:47]  And he does something he's not supposed to do at the end of '61.
[00:50:51]  Kennedy sends him to Vietnam to recommend no combat troops.
[00:50:54]  Kennedy sent him there, wrote him a letter and everything, and, and ordered him to go over there and come back and say, we don't need combat troops.
[00:51:01]  Right.
[00:51:01]  And guess what he did?
[00:51:02]  He comes back and says, we do need combat troops under the flood release.
[00:51:06]  task force cover.
[00:51:08]  He got so he lost his his duties.
[00:51:11]  Kennedy fired him from doing anything on Vietnam at the time, but still let him do his other jobs.
[00:51:17]  So Kennedy got really, really mad, but he didn't completely get rid of him because he was friends of the family.
[00:51:24]  Right.
[00:51:24]  Okay.
[00:51:25]  So he got to stay in.
[00:51:26]  Well, what happens is in 62 is MACV replaces the advisory effort.
[00:51:33]  And guess who gets Harkins made the MACV chief?
[00:51:37]  And he is a protege of Taylor.
[00:51:40]  So Taylor gets his hands on Vietnam anyway.
[00:51:43]  In 62.
[00:51:44]  Got it.
[00:51:45]  And then when Lemnitzer goes away and he becomes the Joint Chief of Staff, he was helping with the investigation of the Bay of Pigs.
[00:51:53]  Right.
[00:51:53]  Now, when they got through with that investigation, Kennedy asked him to take over the CIA.
[00:51:58]  He asked Taylor to take over the CIA.
[00:52:00]  He said, no, my wife and I are tired of, you know, having to travel all the time.
[00:52:06]  I don't think I want to do that.
[00:52:07]  If you have anything for me that's military, I'd be happy to do it.
[00:52:11]  And so that's when he becomes the military guy.
[00:52:14]  And that's why.
[00:52:16]  Kennedy sends him to say, to Vietnam, come back and say, we don't need combat troops.
[00:52:21]  So even though he gets fired from that particular duty, he ends up getting his fingers into the Vietnam thing because his protege is put in charge.
[00:52:31]  And then when Lemnitzer leaves in the middle of 62, again, they try something else.
[00:52:38]  They want to give him sack yurt.
[00:52:39]  They want to give Taylor to go over to NATO and become head of all the Supreme Allied Commander Europe.
[00:52:47]  And he says, no, I don't want to do that either.
[00:52:49]  So he got what he wanted.
[00:52:50]  The whole time he wanted, excuse me, is Vietnam.
[00:52:55]  And he got it finally.
[00:52:57]  And his man is there.
[00:52:59]  So he's just waiting for all these things to happen.
[00:53:01]  And then guess what happens in the last six weeks?
[00:53:04]  He guts the withdrawal plan and supplants it with Plan 34A, which is going to start in Vietnam.
[00:53:12]  But look, they're talking about, and we haven't talked about all these other places that Lemitser and these guys want to fight.
[00:53:20]  It's in Laos, it's in Cuba, it's in Vietnam.
[00:53:24]  And they want to do all these things together at the same time.
[00:53:27]  How in the hell are you going to fight with all these places when we don't have enough troops to actually fight more than one battle?
[00:53:34]  And even that is going to have to call up the reserves.
[00:53:37]  And the answer is simple we're not going to fight with ground forces, we're going to use nuclear weapons everywhere.
[00:53:43]  It's Armageddon time.
[00:53:45]  That's what they wanted.
[00:53:46]  And we know because they briefed Kennedy on that back in July 1961.
[00:53:52]  That's what we needed to do was a massive surprise attack on the Soviet Union, but don't do it till the fall of 63 because at that time we'll have the most ICBMs and they'll have nothing.
[00:54:06]  It's when the very moment that we have the mostest and they have the leastest that we want to do this huge attack.
[00:54:13]  Can you walk us through this meeting?
[00:54:15]  This was the PSYOP meeting?
[00:54:17]  Yes, we can go back and look at that meeting.
[00:54:20]  Walk the audience, the people that are listening, walk us through that meeting.
[00:54:24]  You said it was in 61 in July.
[00:54:27]  Where was it?
[00:54:28]  Who was there?
[00:54:29]  And what was the objective of that meeting?
[00:54:32]  Okay.
[00:54:32]  The objective was to bring Kennedy on board for basically what I would call an Armageddon strike.
[00:54:39]  They didn't think of it that way because they didn't realize it was going to blow the earth up.
[00:54:43]  I mean, they did not understand what was going on with it.
[00:54:46]  So I will take you back to that.
[00:54:47]  This is the briefing given to him in July 1961.
[00:54:53]  The briefing.
[00:54:54]  So he wasn't there?
[00:54:56]  He was there.
[00:54:57]  He was there.
[00:54:59]  It was the time for a PSYOP brief, okay, that started in the Eisenhower administration.
[00:55:05]  Eisenhower said, oh my God, this is terrible.
[00:55:08]  But that's a different story.
[00:55:09]  He was able to get through without having his generals push him around because he was a five star general, but not Kennedy.
[00:55:16]  Eisenhower was.
[00:55:17]  That's right.
[00:55:18]  So they started that late in the second Eisenhower administration.
[00:55:22]  And what does PSIOP stand for?
[00:55:24]  It's S I O P, not Strategic Integrated Operational Plan for Nuclear Warfare.
[00:55:31]  Okay.
[00:55:32]  That's what it is.
[00:55:32]  Started during Eisenhower.
[00:55:35]  And here comes the first one for Kennedy in July 1961, July 20th to be precise.
[00:55:42]  And so they tell him.
[00:55:45]  And in fact, they should be briefing the 1962 PSYOP, but they're not.
[00:55:50]  This is a special one because Kennedy's on his nadir.
[00:55:54]  The Bay of Pigs has happened.
[00:55:56]  Khrushchev is pushing him around at Vienna to take Berlin back and things like that.
[00:56:02]  And so they decide that he's at his weakest point.
[00:56:05]  And so they thought now was the time to strike.
[00:56:08]  And so they briefed him on this thing, on this massive PSYOP to take place in 19.
[00:56:16]  The fall of 1963.
[00:56:19]  Fall of 1963.
[00:56:20]  How many times do I have to say that?
[00:56:22]  Right?
[00:56:22]  The fall of 1963.
[00:56:25]  And so Kennedy just gets up and walks out and says, and we call ourselves the human race.
[00:56:35]  So that's a no go, right?
[00:56:38]  It's not going to happen.
[00:56:39]  But guess what?
[00:56:41]  In the fall of 1963, that idea is still alive.
[00:56:46]  And can you expand on the idea exactly?
[00:56:49]  We wanted to send ICBMs to what countries?
[00:56:54]  We, the two main countries were the Soviet Union and China, which is a large part of the world.
[00:57:02]  And there were other countries like Albania simply because it had.
[00:57:05]  What?
[00:57:05]  Yeah, well, Albania was in the Soviet orbit and they had big radars that the Soviets wanted to use for things.
[00:57:14]  And so, you know, he was asked, Lemonster was asked about Albania and he just said, Because they're in the plan.
[00:57:23]  And then Kennedy asked him about, you know, why about China?
[00:57:26]  I don't see why China did attack us.
[00:57:28]  And Lemacher was, you know, impudent.
[00:57:30]  And he said, it's in the plan, sir.
[00:57:33]  That's all he would say.
[00:57:35]  He didn't answer the question.
[00:57:36]  It's in the plan.
[00:57:38]  That's how Lemacher was with him.
[00:57:40]  He talked down to Kennedy all the time.
[00:57:43]  Yeah, he hated Kennedy.
[00:57:45]  You want to see the evidence of that?
[00:57:48]  This is a picture that tells a thousand words.
[00:57:52]  This is when he did not keep him on as chairman of the joint.
[00:57:58]  This is a dagger stare at Kennedy, and what is he doing?
[00:58:02]  He's wincing.
[00:58:05]  His eyes are almost shut.
[00:58:07]  And look who's smirking in the background Taylor.
[00:58:12]  That's Taylor.
[00:58:13]  He knows he's up next.
[00:58:14]  He's on deck right now.
[00:58:16]  What is going on in that photo?
[00:58:19]  He's being given his medal.
[00:58:21]  Okay.
[00:58:22]  Kennedy's giving him a medal and sending him a.
[00:58:24]  Over to Europe as the Supreme Allied Commander of Europe.
[00:58:27]  And he's mad.
[00:58:29]  Because he lost his job as the.
[00:58:30]  Yeah, he wanted to stay on.
[00:58:32]  Because that's what he wanted to be around for the fireworks.
[00:58:39]  Was Johnson in that PSYOP meeting?
[00:58:43]  Yes, he was, actually.
[00:58:45]  It was difficult for me to find.
[00:58:48]  There are things by good people who've written books about Burris, who was Johnson's LBJ's supposedly his aide.
[00:58:56]  He wasn't, he was his case officer.
[00:58:57]  That's a whole other story.
[00:58:59]  But anyway, so yeah.
[00:59:02]  Johnson's case officer.
[00:59:03]  Yeah.
[00:59:04]  But it was thought for a while that Johnson did not attend because he was drunk that morning, but he did because I have the records that show he did attend that PSYOP briefing that morning.
[00:59:18]  He did.
[00:59:18]  Do we know what his reaction to it was?

=== Johnson and the Hydrogen Bomb Targets (02:22) ===

[00:59:20]  No.
[00:59:21]  How many people did they estimate would be killed by that nuclear attack?
[00:59:25]  Did they have exact casualty or did they have rough casualty estimations?
[00:59:29]  Yes, they did.
[00:59:31]  Did they estimate whether or not a potential ICBM could be sent back?
[00:59:36]  Well, they had, but their figures were not very good.
[00:59:40]  Right.
[00:59:41]  If you let Oppenheimer and Einstein tell you the figures, they would tell you it's not just what happens when the stuff blows up, which they were saying was about 60% of the Soviet population was going to die.
[00:59:54]  But very quickly, the rest of everybody dies because of the radiation.
[00:59:58]  It's fallout around the entire earth.
[01:00:00]  Right.
[01:00:01]  And plants won't grow.
[01:00:03]  Nothing will grow.
[01:00:04]  Right.
[01:00:05]  Unless it's underground far enough not to be.
[01:00:08]  You know, the DNA to be killed.
[01:00:13]  That's what LeMay wanted to drop three warheads on every target, just to be sure.
[01:00:20]  Three warheads on one target.
[01:00:21]  Can you imagine that?
[01:00:22]  These are hydrogen bombs, too.
[01:00:24]  These are not hydrogen bombs.
[01:00:26]  Yes.
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[01:01:33]  These are for content like the hydrogen bombs are over 100 times more powerful than both of the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
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=== Mudwater Secrets and Nuclear Power (11:18) ===

[01:01:43]  You got a thousand targets in the Soviet Union and a thousand more than that in China.
[01:01:49]  And you're going to drop three warheads on every one of those targets?
[01:01:53]  Yeah.
[01:01:53]  Yeah, no, it would completely destroy the atmosphere and it would kill millions and millions of people.
[01:01:59]  But here's the thing did they anticipate any retaliation?
[01:02:03]  Because they have a system in place where they send it.
[01:02:06]  They did not expect it because there were no ICBMs.
[01:02:10]  So the only retaliation that they had would be to send their big airplanes that could drop nuclear weapons on us.
[01:02:17]  Did they have submarines with nukes?
[01:02:19]  No, not at the time.
[01:02:21]  They were working on it.
[01:02:23]  We were the first, I think, with the Polaris missiles.
[01:02:26]  And so we actually had those in a particular, the Cuban Missile Crisis and then beyond.
[01:02:39]  So what we're looking at here is a coup d'etat.
[01:02:41]  This is, by the way, this is a nice slide here.
[01:02:45]  It's like Robert De Niro.
[01:02:46]  Yeah, and this is before he was moved out during the Missile Crisis that summer in 62.
[01:02:53]  Okay.
[01:02:53]  But what he goes, and they're still arguing over whether or not we should send combat troops or whatever.
[01:03:02]  And Lemitscher is recommending action in Vietnam and Cuba at the same time and knows full well that we don't have the forces to do that, the ground forces and all the other things like that.
[01:03:14]  So it was clear that there was only one thing in his mind, which was going to be nuclear weapons.
[01:03:21]  Now, so what he does, and it's very interesting, in January 62, they were still lying about how much we how little forces that the Viet Cong had, and we didn't need to do anything.
[01:03:41]  It was easy to defeat that.
[01:03:44]  But it wasn't true.
[01:03:45]  It was a lie, and they had a huge amount of forces.
[01:03:49]  They were lying to Kennedy.
[01:03:50]  Yeah, they were, but not to Johnson.
[01:03:52]  The vice president knew what was going on.
[01:03:54]  And then all this came out in the spring of 1962.
[01:03:56]  But anyway, in January, Limitscher decides to make one of his most audacious statements to Kennedy.
[01:04:03]  He sends it through McNamara, who basically doesn't touch it except with his thumb in his.
[01:04:07]  Index finger, like, ew.
[01:04:09]  And he says, I don't endorse this, but you better read this.
[01:04:12]  Wow.
[01:04:12]  And so this is a paraphrasing of what it was in a smaller place.
[01:04:17]  Basically, this is not verbatim.
[01:04:19]  Correct.
[01:04:20]  But it says this.
[01:04:21]  Okay.
[01:04:22]  Trust me, it just takes a couple of pages.
[01:04:24]  We told you a year ago to send combat troops to Vietnam, but you didn't listen.
[01:04:29]  We've done everything you've asked us to do in the program.
[01:04:32]  And if it falls apart, we still want to send combat troops.
[01:04:36]  And if you fail to do it then, it will only make our job more difficult when we have to do it anyway.
[01:04:43]  And that's the gist of what he said.
[01:04:45]  Now, what is Lemitzer's motivation for all of this?
[01:04:48]  He believes.
[01:04:49]  He believes.
[01:04:50]  That's it.
[01:04:51]  It's just a foundation, it's an ideology deep and within his soul that he believes that we have.
[01:04:56]  That's what people don't understand today because it doesn't make any sense.
[01:05:00]  It just seems crazy today.
[01:05:02]  The only way you can understand the Cold War is to have lived through it and understand that back then they thought that the Soviet Union was going to go to war with us.
[01:05:13]  They thought the next step after World War II was going to be to take all of Europe.
[01:05:20]  Okay, that didn't happen.
[01:05:21]  That was stupid.
[01:05:22]  That's not what his plans were.
[01:05:23]  But anyway, they believed.
[01:05:25]  And there was a lot of talk about this.
[01:05:28]  They called it the scare of 1948.
[01:05:31]  They were going to take all of Europe.
[01:05:33]  So they believed that it was a, you know, them or us.
[01:05:38]  The communists were going to take over the world.
[01:05:40]  That's right.
[01:05:41]  And we couldn't live together.
[01:05:45]  It was once I was going to win, once I was going to lose.
[01:05:48]  Now, did people like Lemetzer get any sort of kickbacks from the military industrial complex, from any sort of military contractors or anything like that, from sending all these tanks and bombs and planes?
[01:05:58]  It didn't have to at the time because we had a lot of that stuff from World War II.
[01:06:04]  Later on, you know, as technology progresses, then that's different.
[01:06:10]  And we get to Vietnam, for example, and we have to have better, you know, ships and better ground.
[01:06:17]  After the Gulf of Tonkin?
[01:06:19]  Well, yeah, in 60, all the way through Vietnam.
[01:06:23]  We were spending a lot of money on new stuff.
[01:06:26]  Yeah.
[01:06:26]  And including, you know, Agent Orange, stuff like that.
[01:06:29]  DARPA was spending tons of money developing new technology.
[01:06:32]  That's right.
[01:06:33]  So, this is the July 1961 Net Evaluation Subcommittee that does the PSYOPs.
[01:06:42]  The Net Evaluation Subcommittee is a subcommittee of the National Security Council.
[01:06:46]  This is underneath the White House.
[01:06:49]  So that's why they briefed the president.
[01:06:51]  It's a subcommittee of the National Security Council called the NES, Net Evaluation Subcommittee, that does the PSYOPS.
[01:07:00]  And so they briefed this, that what they thought we should do is a massive surprise nuclear attack on the USSR and China during the fall of 63.
[01:07:10]  And I'm saying that plan was still in play in 1963.
[01:07:13]  And here's what I wanted to know to try and figure out who was present in the meeting that was in power in 1961 at that meeting and who was in power in the fall of 1963.
[01:07:29]  Got it.
[01:07:30]  And it was one guy who hits the spikes both places, 61 in the day.
[01:07:35]  Taylor.
[01:07:36]  And in the fall of 1963, he's the one in power, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and he's doing all this stuff behind everybody's backs.
[01:07:43]  Okay.
[01:07:45]  What was Dulles doing in 63?
[01:07:47]  He was fired at the end of 61.
[01:07:52]  And in 1963, there were a lot of people going to his house in and out of the door in 63.
[01:08:02]  Most of the year.
[01:08:03]  So people think that he was being briefed on things by people who were on the wrong side of things, who really wanted to do this thing, this Armageddon.
[01:08:14]  Did he have any sort of job in intelligence at all?
[01:08:17]  Was he downgraded?
[01:08:18]  He was completely unemployed.
[01:08:20]  Well, I don't know.
[01:08:20]  He was unemployed.
[01:08:21]  He had a lot of money.
[01:08:22]  Right, of course.
[01:08:23]  But, you know, no, he was no longer working for the government.
[01:08:26]  Okay.
[01:08:29]  Why do you, for what reason would they want to be briefing him on stuff?
[01:08:34]  Well, because.
[01:08:35]  They wanted his views on what to do.
[01:08:39]  He was still part of that clan, you know?
[01:08:42]  Right.
[01:08:42]  And you have to understand he has other things that are terrible that we don't even talk about very much.
[01:08:49]  And when you go back and take a look at what he was doing in Switzerland and his brother in the State Department, they were funding Nazi forces.
[01:09:06]  They were funding Hitler.
[01:09:08]  Dulles and his brother?
[01:09:09]  Yes.
[01:09:09]  How were they doing that?
[01:09:10]  All the Wall Street firms were sending them money, and we provided about 60%, a little close to 60% of all the pig iron for all their tanks and artillery pieces.
[01:09:26]  And this information is not.
[01:09:29]  It's just that it's boring to people who don't care about going back and finding all these things.
[01:09:33]  But yeah.
[01:09:35]  Why was Dulles and his brother doing that?
[01:09:38]  Well, because they.
[01:09:41]  They wanted to make a lot of money.
[01:09:44]  That's how they were making tons of money.
[01:09:48]  Wow.
[01:09:51]  Okay.
[01:09:51]  You know, there's no other, what else, why is it to do it?
[01:09:54]  You know, because, you know, and they know that they're going to lose anyway.
[01:09:59]  I guess that's the way they figure it.
[01:10:01]  And then, you know, the enemy's going to be USSR.
[01:10:07]  So, but there's no question about it.
[01:10:09]  We know that this.
[01:10:11]  This happened, and there's books been written on it, and it's all documented.
[01:10:15]  It's, you know, this is not something that is new if you've studied your history, but most people don't pay attention to these kinds of things.
[01:10:25]  They just don't.
[01:10:26]  So the Dulleses have a very dark background.
[01:10:31]  Right.
[01:10:31]  Okay.
[01:10:32]  And never forget that.
[01:10:33]  They were, Dulles was around during MKUltra, right?
[01:10:38]  And Dulles, so why.
[01:10:42]  Did they choose to bring him back in for the Warren Commission?
[01:10:47]  Oh, because he was the caretaker to make sure that nothing got in there that they didn't want in there.
[01:10:53]  And who was the one who picked him to be in charge of that?
[01:10:57]  I guess, you know, he picked himself.
[01:11:02]  I don't know.
[01:11:04]  But he was unemployed.
[01:11:06]  Look.
[01:11:07]  He wasn't part of the government then, right?
[01:11:09]  No, he was just on the Warren Commission.
[01:11:12]  Okay.
[01:11:12]  That's all.
[01:11:13]  He was part of the Warren Commission.
[01:11:16]  And they got, I'll tell you who participated in it, which is terrible, which is Bobby Jr., because, not Jr., Bobby, because he didn't understand.
[01:11:27]  Bobby was an attorney general.
[01:11:29]  At the time.
[01:11:30]  And so when his brother got killed, he was destroyed.
[01:11:36]  And so he wanted to do something about the Warren Commission.
[01:11:42]  He didn't really like it, but he didn't mind.
[01:11:48]  He didn't really understand what the Dulles brothers had done all those years.
[01:11:52]  That stuff wasn't let go for, God, decades.
[01:11:57]  This was not what I just told you about what they did was not information that was available back then.
[01:12:06]  But we need to know that because we know who they really are.
[01:12:09]  People don't, their stripes don't change over time.
[01:12:13]  They were that way back then, and so they didn't turn into Cinderellas and princes a few years later.
[01:12:21]  Right.
[01:12:23]  So, what was Bobby's involvement in the Warren Commission?
[01:12:24]  Yeah, I think you finished that thought.
[01:12:26]  Well, he just helped to get a couple of people on the commission to get it over with.
[01:12:33]  He was doing his own separate investigation, though.
[01:12:36]  Don't forget that.
[01:12:38]  With who?
[01:12:40]  He was investigating his brothers.
[01:12:43]  Well, I don't know.
[01:12:44]  He went all the way to Cuba for one thing, one time.
[01:12:47]  He showed up there, and I wrote about that in my first book, Where Angels Tread Lightly.
[01:12:52]  And so he talked to a lot of people down there and asked questions, but we don't have a briefing book on exactly who he talked to and everything they said to him.

=== LBJ's Separate Investigation (15:37) ===

[01:13:02]  Right.
[01:13:04]  Obviously, he talked to Castro.
[01:13:07]  Yeah.
[01:13:08]  There's that famous story of.
[01:13:10]  The journalist who was talking to Castro right when Kennedy got shot.
[01:13:13]  That's later.
[01:13:14]  Castro got the phone.
[01:13:15]  Literally, somebody brought Castro the phone while they were in the middle of their meeting and he put down the phone.
[01:13:19]  And the first thing he said was, They're going to blame me.
[01:13:21]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:13:23]  Well, that's what they said in Moscow, too.
[01:13:24]  Yeah.
[01:13:27]  And Kennedy sent a special delegation over there to tell them, We don't think you did it.
[01:13:33]  Right away, they did to stop any worries over there because they thought it was coming.
[01:13:39]  They thought the war was coming.
[01:13:41]  And so did Castro.
[01:13:43]  Because they knew that they were part of this plot, this top secret stuff.
[01:13:49]  They knew about it.
[01:13:51]  That it was supposed to be Oswald worked for the KGB and Castro.
[01:13:56]  That's why they thought it was going to be curtains.
[01:14:02]  Wow.
[01:14:03]  Do you think that there's any possibility that Johnson was aware of what was going on with Lemitzer and Taylor and their plan for the coup to kill Kennedy?
[01:14:14]  Well, I don't know about the precise details, but he knew it was coming.
[01:14:20]  And they had to do that much because otherwise he wouldn't obey all the things that Burris was trying to teach him.
[01:14:28]  Burris had a huge amount of who's Burris?
[01:14:31]  Howard Burris is a guy who worked in the Pentagon under Birkenau, General Birkenau, the highest Air Force guy.
[01:14:44]  In there, except for the chief of staff.
[01:14:50]  And so, Birkenau gave him the orders to be basically to mind Johnson.
[01:15:04]  And that's not to be do what Johnson says, it's the other way around.
[01:15:09]  So he tells Johnson very early what he's going to do.
[01:15:14]  and how many times they're going to meet, what days, and all these details that you would expect it would be the other way around.
[01:15:23]  And Johnson said famously when he got the big list of things that he was going to have to, all the meetings he was going to visit, he said, well, I just thought we'd do it in the elevator one morning when I was coming down, but if you say so, all right.
[01:15:43]  You know, so he was told he was going to have to, To meet constantly.
[01:15:50]  And so this Burris put together a huge.
[01:16:00]  It was a number of people that worked for him that were working in the White House staff that prepares everything for the president.
[01:16:14]  And so they.
[01:16:17]  And other people in the Pentagon were brought in as well to do research every day on what was going on in the world in numerous countries.
[01:16:31]  And so on a daily basis, he would send these reports to LBJ around the world, and they were accurate.
[01:16:42]  All of them were very accurate.
[01:16:47]  A person who uh, who's in, I forget his name right now who is in charge of putting everything together for the president um he, he also was was involved, and he was a person who prepared exactly what Kennedy was going to be told, and that was completely different.
[01:17:09]  So what Kennedy was actually told were things that were said to him in order to get him to do things that people wanted him to do.
[01:17:20]  So it wasn't a good situation at all where it was his own people who were briefing him at the National Security Council on a daily basis.
[01:17:30]  But at the same time, that same apparatus is being used for Burris to put together very accurate details of things that are happening around the world.
[01:17:45]  So when the time comes, he'll be able to understand what to do.
[01:17:51]  And this goes on for most of the administration.
[01:17:54]  And Burris actually leaves town in those last six weeks.
[01:17:58]  He kind of knows what's coming.
[01:18:00]  He's out of there.
[01:18:02]  But Johnson, they don't tell him we're going to kill the president.
[01:18:08]  But he knows.
[01:18:10]  Somehow, I don't know whether it's a wink, wink, and a nod or something like that.
[01:18:17]  We don't have a document where it says this is what we're going to do.
[01:18:23]  Johnson knows, and here's how we know he knows.
[01:18:27]  So he's on Air Force One on the way home after the assassination.
[01:18:33]  And he's looking out the window and he's just staring out the window while they're airborne.
[01:18:42]  And one of his aides, his top aides, noticed and said, you know, what's the matter, Mr. President?
[01:18:51]  And without even turning around and looking, he just said, are the missiles flying yet?
[01:18:59]  Now, we know that.
[01:19:00]  It's in a couple of two or three books, including mine.
[01:19:04]  I got it from other sources, but.
[01:19:07]  He knew that he thought that this was it.
[01:19:12]  He thought this would be, you know, a big war.
[01:19:16]  And it didn't happen.
[01:19:18]  It's not what happened that day.
[01:19:20]  This is the same day.
[01:19:21]  Yeah, on the way back.
[01:19:23]  Wow.
[01:19:23]  And this is the plane ride with Jackie Kennedy.
[01:19:25]  Jackie Kennedy was on the plane with him.
[01:19:27]  Yeah, Air Force One.
[01:19:31]  So he knew something was going to happen.
[01:19:33]  And he thought it was going to be war.
[01:19:36]  So what it tells you is he wasn't totally clear on exactly.
[01:19:41]  What was happening, but he knew he was going to be president one day, and this is what he worried about, and which is why he tried to stop it when in '64 he because he felt, uh, like Jamie Galbraith said, he felt intimidated the way they killed Kennedy.
[01:20:02]  You know, he was afraid, right?
[01:20:04]  But he said, No, just get me elected, and then you can have your war, right?
[01:20:08]  Okay, so but but Johnson knew.
[01:20:12]  Something was up.
[01:20:13]  Okay.
[01:20:15]  And otherwise, why all the preparation?
[01:20:19]  Because the Kennedys thought that in the second term, they were going to get rid of Johnson.
[01:20:25]  And he knew that.
[01:20:26]  That got back to him.
[01:20:30]  They were going to drop LBJ.
[01:20:33]  How'd that get back to him?
[01:20:34]  And why do they want to drop him?
[01:20:36]  Because he was a drunk.
[01:20:40]  They used him initially because Texas votes, you know.
[01:20:45]  He tried to send him on trips to go here and there and represent the president and stuff.
[01:20:53]  And he was constantly stepping on everything and drunk out of his mind and refusing to do it.
[01:21:03]  With the time he sent this delegation to Vietnam, he said, I'm not going.
[01:21:07]  I'm not going.
[01:21:08]  I refuse.
[01:21:10]  And then Burris would say, Yeah, now get your clothes on.
[01:21:14]  We're going to go.
[01:21:16]  And I can tell you lots of stories about LBJ and Burris in 61 and 62, which we don't need to do that right now because you were asking questions.
[01:21:28]  And I think I told you what you need to know, which is that Burris was the handler.
[01:21:34]  And because he was, Johnson knew exactly that he was going to be president.
[01:21:42]  And how does he know that?
[01:21:43]  And the only way that's going to happen is if Kennedy's not president.
[01:21:47]  And now.
[01:21:49]  What essentially was the reason the nukes were never dropped?
[01:21:54]  Is it because Russia was able to build up their nuclear arsenal by the time Kennedy was shot?
[01:22:01]  There's two things.
[01:22:01]  There's first that Johnson doesn't want to do it.
[01:22:04]  He keeps the nukes in place, right?
[01:22:09]  Doesn't want to do that.
[01:22:12]  But as you move downstream, it gets to be more complex.
[01:22:19]  By the time the.
[01:22:23]  Marines weighed ashore at the Nang.
[01:22:26]  That's when it, that's our real true entrance to Vietnam is, is, is in May.
[01:22:31]  Oh, yeah, Tonkin Golf is in 64.
[01:22:35]  But he gets reelected, and then he's got to be sworn in and all that.
[01:22:39]  So that goes into February.
[01:22:41]  And then you've got to start sending people over there and getting boats together and all that.
[01:22:46]  And so, yeah, it's in May, May 65, before we actually start sending these troops in there.
[01:22:52]  And by that time, the Soviet Union has a lot of ICBMs.
[01:22:58]  The whole briefing that took place back in 61 is over.
[01:23:04]  Right.
[01:23:07]  Wow.
[01:23:07]  Now, but the funny thing is, when the war went bad, which it did, and it wasn't because people at home didn't like it, it was because we couldn't win.
[01:23:20]  And Wes Mornin didn't like that.
[01:23:22]  And he lied about a lot of stuff, and they got caught.
[01:23:25]  And there's excellent information on that that you could look into that CBS Reports did.
[01:23:36]  On this.
[01:23:37]  But yeah, he.
[01:23:40]  So I guess I've answered your question.
[01:23:44]  I guess, yeah.
[01:23:46]  Can we talk about the Tonkin Gulf for a second?
[01:23:49]  Sure.
[01:23:51]  Now, allegedly, there were Vietnamese ships sending torpedoes towards a U.S. vessel.
[01:24:03]  Now, was that actually real?
[01:24:05]  Confirmed that that never happened and there was actually no torpedoes that came that were fired at the U.S. boat.
[01:24:11]  Well, when you say that, it's like we have a movie there and we're right there and watching.
[01:24:17]  No, we the preponderance of the evidence is no, they were there was they were fake.
[01:24:23]  Okay, um, McNamara actually got incontrovertible evidence of one of the two attacks would never happen, and we don't think that the second one did either, but it doesn't matter, it was being used.
[01:24:37]  In order to start the war, and Johnson would go along with it.
[01:24:42]  Now, Johnson did us another favor a little bit later, though.
[01:24:46]  Okay, so we're talking about he's towards the end of his, you can't say his first term, because the first part doesn't count, because he was the vice president who is the president.
[01:25:00]  But his full term, as he gets close to the end of the war, is going sideways.
[01:25:07]  Westmoreland.
[01:25:08]  Secretly asked him, and this is in a book by, I forget who it is now, it's Beschloss, American President's new book, but he has the documents.
[01:25:25]  Westmoreland actually asked if we could use tactical nuclear weapons to save the situation in Vietnam.
[01:25:31]  And LBJ said no.
[01:25:36]  So they still wanted to, you know.
[01:25:39]  To do stuff.
[01:25:40]  I?
[01:25:40]  I don't think that LBJ, excuse me.
[01:25:42]  I don't think that Westmorland was thinking about Armageddon, in other words attacking the Ussr, but he was.
[01:25:49]  He was Westmorland, was the the chief of what was happening in Vietnam, and and it was on his watch that they were losing the war.
[01:25:58]  And that's why he lied over and over again lies just as bad as they did to Kennedy in the spring of 62, which happened all over again, although instead of talking about 100 000 um, instead of what they said it was like 35,000.
[01:26:15]  Now we're talking about millions, how many millions we have.
[01:26:19]  And they cut that in half.
[01:26:21]  So it was all the same thing all over again.
[01:26:25]  And it was no use.
[01:26:27]  And they told Johnson, all the wise men had a meeting with him just not too long before he quit and died soon after.
[01:26:38]  He made it technically to the end of his first term, but anyway, right before then, they told him the news.
[01:26:46]  They said, you know, we can't win this war.
[01:26:50]  We can't win it.
[01:26:51]  Now, was there, when it comes to the war in Vietnam and what's going on in Laos when Kennedy is still alive?
[01:27:01]  There were a lot of CIA paramilitary operations going on in Vietnam and Laos, right?
[01:27:08]  So, was this a competition between the Pentagon and the CIA?
[01:27:14]  Well, it depends on what year you want to talk about.
[01:27:20]  Okay, so Laos was an operation that was begun instantly for Kennedy because it was already moving under.
[01:27:32]  Eisenhower.
[01:27:34]  And it was a big, big operation.
[01:27:36]  But it was all CIA.
[01:27:38]  No.
[01:27:39]  We're talking three aircraft carriers and thousands of Marines.
[01:27:44]  I thought it was all CIA paramilitary operations first.
[01:27:47]  No, there's some other paramilitary operations much, much later.
[01:27:52]  But no, no, no, no.
[01:27:54]  The Great Big Laos thing in 61 was not a paramilitary operation.
[01:28:01]  Okay.
[01:28:03]  This was ground forces and Navy and even air forces, too.
[01:28:12]  The 82nd Airborne was in on it.
[01:28:14]  It was a great big deal.
[01:28:17]  And the way they got it, Kennedy, to go for it was this.
[01:28:25]  So when he comes in as president, it's already the Laos thing is going sideways.
[01:28:31]  And so Eisenhower recommends that he go into Laos and.
[01:28:37]  Take care of the enemy.

=== Kennedy's Laos Neutralization Strategy (15:31) ===

[01:28:40]  And so Kennedy starts looking into this and he doesn't like it.
[01:28:44]  He wants to do neutralization of Laos.
[01:28:50]  But while he's doing neutralization, they're grabbing territory.
[01:28:54]  And so that gets in the press and so on.
[01:28:57]  And so it's making his life difficult because his neutralization is actually giving more and more ground to the Pathet Lao, coming further and further south.
[01:29:07]  That's what's going on there.
[01:29:09]  So we do have some.
[01:29:12]  Bright Star, not Bright Star, it's, I forget, Star something is in the we have forces in there that are reconnoitering and telling us what's in Laos, but they're not fighting.
[01:29:26]  They're basically telling us what's happening.
[01:29:28]  They're hiding and giving us the intelligence information that the Army knows about it because they report that they're Army units, but they're special forces.
[01:29:42]  That are in their small units.
[01:29:45]  But anyway, what happens is that they decide to pull a fast one on Kennedy in Laos, just like they did in Cuba, making up a false story that we're going to win.
[01:30:01]  It's okay.
[01:30:02]  Don't worry about it.
[01:30:05]  And Kennedy warns them we're not going in no matter what.
[01:30:07]  No problem.
[01:30:08]  Well, it's the same thing was going on in Laos.
[01:30:10]  And the way they handled it was.
[01:30:14]  By saying, we have a very strong military force of Laotians.
[01:30:21]  They're called, well, they were under, they called it Fumi's forces.
[01:30:26]  He was a big leader in Laos.
[01:30:30]  And so they said that Fumi's forces would defeat these Laotian.
[01:30:35]  They called them the Patat Lao that were coming down and taking over territory almost adjacent to, well, certainly by Cambodia and getting closer to Vietnam by the month.
[01:30:49]  And so that's what they said, that it would just take a day, maybe two days.
[01:30:56]  Fumi's forces would completely eradicate the problem and it'd be over.
[01:31:01]  So, no need for a big war or anything like that.
[01:31:04]  We can just win the war with Fumi.
[01:31:06]  And this is, you should just, if you were in the Army, the Army knew that wasn't going to happen.
[01:31:18]  But in the meetings that were held at the CIA headquarters, which is all the Air Force, Army, everybody meets for these meetings.
[01:31:33]  What they do every once in a while, they have national security investigations and reports.
[01:31:43]  Constantly, they happen either regularly or sometimes irregularly.
[01:31:54]  And it was clear to the Army at the human level, the human intelligence, that this was not going to happen.
[01:32:05]  So when they put together the report for Kennedy, the briefing, the Army representatives tried to bring their information to bear on the, it's called a National Intelligence Estimate, right, or a Special National Intelligence Estimate.
[01:32:23]  They tried to get their information in the report.
[01:32:29]  And the guy who was sitting there, Abbott was his name, who was the CIA guy in charge of having the briefing go, refused to let them.
[01:32:39]  Speak.
[01:32:41]  He said, No, we're not going to do that because, you know, the Air Force guys don't have the clearances.
[01:32:46]  So we're now, no, you can't tell us that stuff.
[01:32:48]  So what it ends up saying is the crazy thing that they're going to win.
[01:32:54]  And the Army human people said, Ain't going to happen.
[01:32:57]  It just isn't.
[01:32:58]  And they didn't.
[01:33:00]  So that never went to Kennedy.
[01:33:02]  He only heard the part about that we're going to win.
[01:33:05]  And they knew it was going to lose.
[01:33:07]  They wanted to put him in that situation, just like they wanted to put him in the situation in 1962.
[01:33:13]  Right?
[01:33:14]  When they could have told, I mean, the lemons from those guys knew that those nukes were coming, and they didn't tell the president because they didn't want him to know until it was too late, until everything was there and they were ready to fire.
[01:33:28]  They wanted to back him up against the wall.
[01:33:30]  And that's what they were doing here in Laos.
[01:33:34]  It was a trick, and it worked.
[01:33:37]  Kennedy said yes.
[01:33:39]  And then when it failed, it was all over the news everywhere.
[01:33:45]  And so there's that.
[01:33:47]  That's the first.
[01:33:48]  I have a picture in there somewhere of Kennedy, and it's trying to.
[01:33:52]  That was the first stain on his reputation.
[01:33:55]  It was.
[01:33:55]  And he had a pointer, and they were talking about, you know, these forces are here and there, and it was very embarrassing for him.
[01:34:04]  So at that point, he gives a conditional okay for the Laos invasion.
[01:34:11]  And so three aircraft carriers, three aircraft carriers are sent to the South China Sea.
[01:34:18]  And tons of Marines, besides that, are on those carriers, and you got all kinds of aircraft.
[01:34:23]  You have a huge amount of Marines readied on Okinawa.
[01:34:28]  And they were going to just go right across the DMZ into Laos that way.
[01:34:34]  And it all ready.
[01:34:35]  Well, a lot of time had passed.
[01:34:37]  And both of these ideas, again, we got Laos and Cuba.
[01:34:43]  Are taking place at the same time, which is what the joint chiefs wanted.
[01:34:48]  And so Kennedy was angry about what had happened with the Laos thing.
[01:34:55]  And so he said, okay, time out.
[01:35:00]  We're just a few days away from the exile invasion in Cuba.
[01:35:04]  Let's see what happens there first.
[01:35:08]  And of course, it fails.
[01:35:10]  And at that point, they have the meetings in the White House about Laos.
[01:35:16]  And Kennedy starts asking questions and nobody can answer them.
[01:35:20]  And they know it's over.
[01:35:23]  And they know it's over.
[01:35:25]  And Kennedy says, no, he doesn't really want to.
[01:35:28]  He doesn't have to.
[01:35:30]  And the chairman of the, not chairman, the sink pack commander, Admiral Felt calls up Lemnitzer and says, well, maybe we could use the forces in Vietnam at some point.
[01:35:42]  But Laos is in the hookah.
[01:35:44]  Not going to happen.
[01:35:46]  That was the first PSYOP.
[01:35:50]  you know, Armageddon that was going to take place there.
[01:35:54]  And they were, they intended to use nuclear weapons to take care of all these North Vietnamese troops which were coming down there.
[01:36:01]  It wasn't just Laosan forces.
[01:36:03]  It was tons of North Vietnamese were coming down a trail.
[01:36:07]  Right.
[01:36:07]  The Ho Chi Minh Trail.
[01:36:08]  At the time, yes.
[01:36:11]  What was going on here on your slideshow in Berlin?
[01:36:15]  Well, we'll start, we'll go back just to where it started, which was in the summer of Vienna.
[01:36:22]  And it was a meeting between Khrushchev and Kennedy.
[01:36:26]  And Khrushchev had been nice to Kennedy originally until he figured out that he was a weakling.
[01:36:32]  And then all of a sudden, he decided he wanted Berlin.
[01:36:35]  And so that's what was on the table in Vienna.
[01:36:39]  And Khrushchev was terrible.
[01:36:41]  He just threatened him again and again.
[01:36:44]  And Kennedy would shoot back.
[01:36:47]  But basically, he just said it's going to be a cold winter.
[01:36:50]  And so things started escalating from there.
[01:36:53]  Eventually, we had a wall set up.
[01:36:56]  Kennedy liked that.
[01:36:57]  He thought that was a victory because he said a wall is better than a war.
[01:37:02]  The Joint Chiefs decided that they had some leverage this time because of all the places on the earth that Kennedy would have gone in to defend, and we didn't have the ground forces to do it.
[01:37:15]  So he was interested in having a nuclear option that was not one of these massive things that would just shoot a few of them and to let them know that.
[01:37:27]  That we're serious about this.
[01:37:29]  So he asked for briefings on it and they actually came up with a plan, if necessary, of how to defend this.
[01:37:40]  Kennedy was interested.
[01:37:41]  Yes, yes, because it might have happened.
[01:37:45]  And then what are you going to do?
[01:37:47]  And so he wanted a, he didn't want one of these crazy psyops.
[01:37:51]  He wanted something to show determination, if necessary.
[01:37:55]  And the Joint Chiefs knew that.
[01:37:57]  So they wanted to, they, okay, we got, maybe we have a chance here to get this thing done.
[01:38:03]  And so then they did a top secret PSYOP the whole time and waited and waited for the last minute until this thing you see on the slides here, which is this confrontation.
[01:38:15]  They put their recommendation on the table about a day or two before this, when for the first time ever, American and Russian tanks faced each other right in front of each other with the turrets pointing to each other and the engines running.
[01:38:33]  And so.
[01:38:35]  What Kennedy did just before this, the day of it, is his own thing.
[01:38:44]  He put something in their punch bowl, which was a declassification of all the nuclear options that we had, everything.
[01:38:53]  And so that was done by the number three guy in the Pentagon.
[01:38:58]  His name was Gilpatrick.
[01:39:00]  And he was sent to West Virginia to make a speech.
[01:39:10]  And it was just basically some businessmen that were there.
[01:39:18]  It wasn't really relevant to that, but he made the speech there, and also the Pentagon put it out so that everybody would see it.
[01:39:27]  And it's a nuclear laydown of everything we have.
[01:39:32]  And just reading this is this is just a small excerpt from the very middle of the speech that.
[01:39:39]  Gilpatrick made.
[01:39:40]  He said the United States has hundreds of ICBMs, including 600 heavy bombers and any more medium bombers capable of reaching the USSR due to the highly developed in flight refueling techniques at worldwide bases.
[01:39:56]  He said the United States has six Polaris submarines carrying a total of 96 missiles, dozens, and those were MIRVED, dozens of intercontinental ballistic missiles, carrier strike forces, land based theater forces that can deliver additional.
[01:40:10]  Hundreds of megatons.
[01:40:12]  The total number of our tactical and strategic nuclear delivery vehicles is in the tens of thousands with more than one warhead on each vehicle.
[01:40:20]  More than tens of thousands of missiles with more than one warhead on each of those missiles.
[01:40:28]  And, you know, and so Khrushchev had been bluffing the whole time.
[01:40:32]  He didn't have any ICBMs.
[01:40:34]  He certainly didn't have the rest of these kind of forces.
[01:40:37]  And besides this, that was put out publicly.
[01:40:41]  In front of the world, which really embarrassed Khrushchev, right, and his military because they knew he was bluffing.
[01:40:49]  But actually, it wasn't secret, but it wasn't publicized.
[01:40:54]  We told the Russian military, oh, by the way, we got four Polaris submarines up there in the North Sea, each one of which has carrying, well, four of them, 96 would have been something like 72 missiles.
[01:41:10]  So we told them we had four Polaris submarines right up there.
[01:41:13]  There, you know, in the North Sea getting ready for them.
[01:41:17]  Wow.
[01:41:17]  And so they knew it was over.
[01:41:20]  And the Joint Chiefs did too.
[01:41:21]  And so they lost another one because Kennedy decided, I'm going to put it on the table.
[01:41:28]  What we have.
[01:41:29]  Did the Soviet Union have intelligence to confirm that this was true?
[01:41:34]  Sure, they did.
[01:41:35]  Yeah.
[01:41:36]  They had their own submarines, and there was no question that they had all this stuff.
[01:41:44]  The main thing about it was.
[01:41:48]  That the question was who knew how much, and this made it clear to Khrushchev and all of his military that we knew exactly what they had and they had nothing.
[01:42:02]  That's amazing that we were so far ahead of them.
[01:42:05]  That's what people were, that's what they were talking about back in 61.
[01:42:09]  And we're going to be even farther ahead in the fall of 63.
[01:42:12]  It will be the maximum best moment to do it.
[01:42:15]  Right.
[01:42:16]  But they were willing to do it right here.
[01:42:17]  They were willing to do it in 61.
[01:42:18]  They were willing to do it here at the end of 61.
[01:42:21]  And they were willing to do it in the Cuban Missile Crisis.
[01:42:24]  None of those things worked.
[01:42:26]  And so when we get to the end of the line in the fall of 63, they try it again.
[01:42:31]  And this time, there's only one way to do it.
[01:42:33]  When they declassified this at the Pentagon, what year was that?
[01:42:38]  That's in 61.
[01:42:40]  That's in 61.
[01:42:41]  Right, the day before the standoff at Checkpoint Charlie.
[01:42:44]  At what point did the Soviet Union start building up their ICBMs?
[01:42:50]  What he was boasting about was a non existent ICBM force that he started to build called the SS 6.
[01:42:56]  This episode of the podcast is brought to you by BetterHelp.
[01:43:00]  In 1961, at his inaugural address, President Kennedy said, Every accomplishment starts with a decision to try.
[01:43:07]  I am blessed to have a supportive family and be surrounded by encouraging individuals that push me to try my hardest.
[01:43:13]  This quote really hits home for me, especially during times like this when everyone's trying to make New Year's resolutions and focusing on new goals.
[01:43:20]  Around New Year's, we all get obsessed with how to change ourselves instead of just expanding on things that we're already doing great.
[01:43:27]  Therapy helps you find your strengths so you can ditch those extreme resolutions and focus on minor changes that can really stick.
[01:43:34]  For me, it's helpful to focus on wins or positive experiences that I'm already grateful for.
[01:43:38]  And this isn't just for people who have experienced trauma or PTSD.
[01:43:41]  It's for everyone.
[01:43:42]  This is a daily ritual I like to use to keep my mind healthy and free of negative influences.
[01:43:47]  If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try.
[01:43:50]  It's entirely online and designed to be convenient and suited to your schedule.
[01:43:54]  Just fill out a questionnaire to get connected to a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge.
[01:44:01]  Celebrate the progress you've already made.
[01:44:03]  Visit betterhelp.comslash Danny Jones to get 10% off your first month.
[01:44:08]  That's BetterHelp, H E L P, Slash Danny Jones.

=== Daily Rituals for Mental Health (03:51) ===

[01:44:11]  It's linked below.
[01:44:13]  Now back to the show.
[01:44:14]  And we had overhead reconnaissance and before that, U-2s that told us basically they couldn't hit their targets in the Far East.
[01:44:23]  There were terrible missiles.
[01:44:25]  And so Khrushchev said, okay, scratch that.
[01:44:28]  Let's go to a second generation that's going to work better.
[01:44:31]  So they were working on that the whole time, but it takes a long time to do that.
[01:44:35]  And you've got to have silos.
[01:44:37]  You've got to have all kinds of things in the impact areas and the launch areas.
[01:44:41]  You've got to have the telemetry for these new missiles.
[01:44:44]  So, and it's not something you can just snap your fingers and do it in a few weeks.
[01:44:48]  So, they were still working on this stuff.
[01:44:49]  But we knew that after 1963, they were going to start adding ICPMs to whatever else they had.
[01:45:00]  That's what we knew.
[01:45:01]  And that's why back in 61, they told Kennedy, this is the maximum moment of where we can get the win.
[01:45:09]  They'll never be able to strike back at us.
[01:45:11]  They won't know what hit them.
[01:45:13]  Right.
[01:45:14]  So that's it.
[01:45:17]  And then, you know, when we get to the end of the game, the only way to do it is Kennedy's got to be removed because he's not going to do it.
[01:45:25]  He's just not going to do it.
[01:45:26]  He's three times victorious.
[01:45:30]  And the reason why it works, you know, in the Cuban Missile Crisis is because it worked here in Berlin.
[01:45:36]  And here's why.
[01:45:37]  So what Kennedy did, he said he's the one who broke the ice.
[01:45:45]  At the last minute after this is happening, he says to Khrushchev, Look, I'll go easy on Berlin.
[01:45:52]  You withdraw your tanks first, and then I'll withdraw mine.
[01:45:56]  And so Khrushchev has to tell all his own people, We're going to withdraw our tanks.
[01:46:01]  And I promise the Americans will withdraw theirs too 20 minutes later.
[01:46:07]  So that's a lose, right?
[01:46:10]  But he does it.
[01:46:11]  And he does it.
[01:46:12]  Yeah, he does.
[01:46:13]  He moves the tanks.
[01:46:14]  Is that why he trusted Kennedy during the Bay of Pigs?
[01:46:19]  Or I'm sorry, to remove the Cuban Missile Crisis.
[01:46:22]  Because guess what happened?
[01:46:24]  We took, Kennedy did 20 minutes later, move all of ours out of there.
[01:46:29]  And that was, they were talking to each other.
[01:46:31]  Not through their military services, to each other.
[01:46:34]  Bobby was talking to a KGB guy in Washington, and Khrushchev had his guy in his spot down there.
[01:46:44]  So that worked.
[01:46:46]  Two leaders avoiding all the generals and all the middlemen.
[01:46:51]  Yeah, and we're talking about an Armageddon because we're talking about huge ground forces as well out there.
[01:47:02]  Allies, all their forces, the Warsaw Pact, against a much smaller uh, Western forces, that that were there, and there was nothing we could do about it if they, if they were going to go to war there.
[01:47:13]  And so Kennedy pulled, pulled a big one, I call it a big turd in the punch bowl, and that stopped everything.
[01:47:20]  And on we went, uh and in and so, but here's the thing about, about what happens.
[01:47:28]  It doesn't really stop it, because what does Khrushchev realize?
[01:47:34]  Oh my God.
[01:47:36]  I'll be outed because he was living on very ice because he didn't really win very big in the four year war to succeed Stalin.
[01:47:53]  And so he was always vulnerable to being purged.
[01:47:58]  And he did get purged in 64, very close to this.

=== Sending Missiles to Cuba Quickly (14:44) ===

[01:48:03]  So he decided.
[01:48:07]  That he would do this and it worked.
[01:48:14]  But then he said, I've got to have something quick or I'm going to be toast.
[01:48:21]  So he can't make ICBMs in a few weeks, but he can do something else.
[01:48:27]  He can send medium-range ballistic missiles to Cuba and change the equation.
[01:48:34]  That's what.
[01:48:35]  And he's on to that instantly, okay, in January, the next month.
[01:48:43]  Within six weeks, he's got a plan.
[01:48:45]  Now, he doesn't tell hardly anybody in the Soviet Union for one reason, because there's a lot of, we got our own moles in their facilities.
[01:48:54]  So he only tells like the head of Soviet strategic rocket forces.
[01:48:59]  He tells that guy.
[01:49:01]  And he goes over instantly in February and starts casing out all those honeycombed caves all over Cuba right away.
[01:49:12]  And then there's some ships that start showing up.
[01:49:17]  The national security agency is able to pick up signals about what's their list of things that are on the ships.
[01:49:28]  And some of the manifests are just blank.
[01:49:30]  And some of them are just false, blatantly false.
[01:49:32]  So they know that their ships are starting to come and they're lying about what's on them.
[01:49:38]  That was in February.
[01:49:41]  And so the NSA knew, and here's how they knew right away what was going on.
[01:49:46]  And there's another reason I know about this, and I'll say it because I had a friend.
[01:49:52]  In NSA, that I knew.
[01:49:54]  I don't mention his name, but he liked my book, JFK in Vietnam, and we would talk about it a lot.
[01:50:04]  We met in the cafeteria one day, and he said, you know what?
[01:50:07]  We knew that they had all those MRBMs in Cuba that were coming.
[01:50:19]  We knew that in January 1962.
[01:50:25]  January.
[01:50:27]  Furthermore, the overhead reconnaissance part, they also imaged a facility in Cuba.
[01:50:37]  And it looked very much very similar to a warhead storage unit that had been seen in Russia.
[01:50:48]  And it turned out later on, of course, this was the major warhead store facility on the Cuban island.
[01:50:53]  Anyway, we had all these indicators in January and early February of 1962.
[01:51:01]  And the person who knew this right away in about March in the CIA was Marshall Carter, who became the deputy director of Central Intelligence.
[01:51:15]  And he was Lemnitzer's protege.
[01:51:19]  So Lemnitzer knew all this as soon as Carter knew it.
[01:51:24]  So no later than March, than early March, we knew that they had those missiles coming.
[01:51:33]  And McCone even said one time, and this is not, this is avoided if possible, McCone said, you know what?
[01:51:41]  Some of these things look like they're surface-to-air missiles, and that's always for, you know, for missiles, for real missiles.
[01:51:49]  And so nobody paid attention to him.
[01:51:51]  But here's the teaching point now.
[01:51:57]  They should have told Kennedy right away what they had.
[01:52:02]  If they had done that, he could easily have stopped.
[01:52:05]  all those missiles and all those parts and all those things coming.
[01:52:07]  How?
[01:52:08]  By just blockading before they got there.
[01:52:12]  When he did the blockade, all the missiles were there.
[01:52:15]  Got it.
[01:52:16]  And there were more coming, but he could have stopped the whole thing.
[01:52:19]  They wouldn't have had enough to do what they did later on.
[01:52:23]  It wasn't until July that he found out.
[01:52:27]  And then there were some bad atmospheric stuff.
[01:52:31]  There were clouds and things like that that got in the way.
[01:52:34]  But there was no doubt in the minds of a lot of people who knew at NSA.
[01:52:39]  And in the Joint Chiefs, that they were going to do this.
[01:52:43]  And they let it happen on purpose because that meant it would be, they would get closer and closer to maybe Kennedy would have to do it.
[01:52:51]  And if just one shot, one missile goes, it's cookies.
[01:52:58]  It's all out nuclear war.
[01:52:59]  Yeah.
[01:53:02]  Now, Kennedy was able to have another direct phone call.
[01:53:09]  with Khrushchev during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
[01:53:12]  And they had another deal similar to one that happened in Berlin.
[01:53:15]  Exactly.
[01:53:16]  Exactly.
[01:53:17]  And so it got so close again.
[01:53:20]  I mean, it escalated.
[01:53:21]  Everything was going sideways.
[01:53:24]  And they had to stop it.
[01:53:25]  And they knew that.
[01:53:27]  But it was the same thing.
[01:53:30]  What Khrushchev thought he could use would be if we would remove our MRBMs out of Italy.
[01:53:39]  And Turkey.
[01:53:41]  And Turkey.
[01:53:41]  Everybody talks about Turkey, but there was twice as many in Italy as there were in Turkey.
[01:53:45]  Wow.
[01:53:45]  Yeah, twice as many regiments, missile regiments.
[01:53:48]  So Kennedy said, yes, I will do it.
[01:53:52]  As long as you do it first.
[01:53:54]  He says, I can't do it now.
[01:53:57]  If I do it now, I will be gone and there's going to be war.
[01:54:02]  He would have been, you know, pushed aside somehow.
[01:54:07]  It would have been a coup right then and there.
[01:54:09]  He knew that.
[01:54:09]  Yeah.
[01:54:11]  He said, I can't do it now, but I promise you I will do it.
[01:54:15]  And so Khrushchev said, fine.
[01:54:19]  And did he?
[01:54:19]  So he told Khrushchev that he thought there would be a coup if he did it.
[01:54:24]  Well, I don't know whether he said that or not, but that's what he was saying.
[01:54:27]  That was his sentiment.
[01:54:28]  Yes.
[01:54:30]  And he did.
[01:54:31]  He had to wait quite a while.
[01:54:32]  He waited several months, but he did.
[01:54:34]  He pulled them all out.
[01:54:37]  And the only reason he did that is because, and that Khrushchev pulled his out first is because they had a deal once before.
[01:54:45]  Kennedy honored it.
[01:54:47]  And this time we're looking at another Armageddon that's going to kill us all.
[01:54:51]  So we had to find a way out of it.
[01:54:53]  And so it was the same formula they used in Berlin.
[01:54:58]  Right.
[01:55:01]  And that was the really last one.
[01:55:04]  That's the three times that Kennedy saved us from an Armageddon.
[01:55:09]  So when it comes to the fourth one, it's the fall of 63.
[01:55:12]  And you know what happens there?
[01:55:15]  We've got all these things that came into play all at once because they were waiting for it.
[01:55:19]  They knew that, I mean, Lansdale was another guy who knew that he couldn't, he would never get to be where he wanted to be, which was to work with DM.
[01:55:31]  As long as Kennedy was in the presidency.
[01:55:34]  So a lot of people wanted him dead and were participating in Mongoose Lands Day.
[01:55:39]  That's the Mongoose plus the.
[01:55:43]  What is Mongoose?
[01:55:45]  Okay, so what happens is a Mongoose is a terrible decision by Kennedy.
[01:55:50]  They're still mad because of Castro.
[01:55:53]  So they decide to go back again and try and do something about it.
[01:55:57]  Bad idea.
[01:55:58]  Bad idea.
[01:55:59]  Now, when you compare how much stuff the Soviets had put into Cuba by that time, Compared to what they had during the Bay of Pigs, it's four, five, six, ten times as much power, military power, and KGB folks there too.
[01:56:18]  So there was no way that it was going to be, we're going to remove Castro, but we're not going to use any combat troops.
[01:56:27]  We're not going to war.
[01:56:29]  That was a nutty idea.
[01:56:32]  And he put, and again, just like, you know, Bugs in a Lysol convention, you have William Harvey and you have Lansdale was another guy.
[01:56:44]  Those three guys were put in charge of Mongoose.
[01:56:49]  And these guys all three hated each other.
[01:56:51]  So this is a, you know, a crazy idea.
[01:56:56]  And what happens is Lansdale is in charge of describing all the activities.
[01:57:03]  And all the activities that Lansdale does actually, when you look very close at them, Are pre Northwood stuff.
[01:57:10]  He's setting up Lemitzer for Northwoods from the get go during Mongoose.
[01:57:17]  The Kennedy brothers figure it out in about March and they kneecap Lansdale so he's out of the picture and then they go to work.
[01:57:27]  But by that time, it causes the real snake in the grass to come out and show himself and it was Lemitzer and he had no problem walking in and telling Kennedy what he wanted.
[01:57:38]  Okay?
[01:57:39]  And he told him.
[01:57:40]  You know, I know that you didn't want to do this back in January of '61 because we would be beating up on a little guy, but how about if we have a pretext?
[01:57:51]  What if we have people dying in, say, Miami and Washington, D.C., and we tell the American people that these were done by Castro?
[01:58:07]  How about that?
[01:58:08]  How would that have worked?
[01:58:09]  How are people going to die in Miami now?
[01:58:11]  They're going to shoot them.
[01:58:12]  Who's going to shoot them?
[01:58:15]  Our people dressed up as Cubans.
[01:58:18]  And this is part of Northwoods?
[01:58:19]  Yes.
[01:58:20]  This is the Northwoods operation.
[01:58:21]  And Northwoods was also, there was a plane, an unmanned plane.
[01:58:24]  Plane without two, they were going to shoot down an unmanned plane, they were going to actually kill some people in their dinghies trying to escape from Cuba.
[01:58:30]  It was about five or six things, it wasn't just one, there were all these things that they were going to do.
[01:58:36]  And so, what he was trying to tell Kennedy is, Look, we can do this, we can do this, and nobody will know the difference, and the public will be in support of it.
[01:58:46]  And you know what?
[01:58:47]  Kennedy told him to take a hike.
[01:58:50]  Who is the mastermind behind Northwoods?
[01:58:52]  Well, Lemon, sir, actually, but but you have, but but he.
[01:58:56]  He put together secretly during the Mongoose party, put together secretly all the units in the Pentagon that had to be there S1 organization, S2 Intel, S3 operations, S4 logistics.
[01:59:11]  He built up all the things that were necessary for Northwoods to work.
[01:59:15]  Did Dulles have anything to do with any of this?
[01:59:18]  No.
[01:59:18]  Behind the scenes?
[01:59:19]  No.
[01:59:19]  Nothing.
[01:59:20]  Okay.
[01:59:21]  Got it.
[01:59:23]  So that's what happened there.
[01:59:28]  And Kennedy just made a terrible mistake because he gave him another chance.
[01:59:35]  You know, he gave him another chance.
[01:59:36]  And it was no need to do that.
[01:59:40]  Anyway, it was clear that the Russians were going to do something.
[01:59:44]  They had to do something.
[01:59:45]  So that's why they were, while we're playing mongoose stuff, they're doing the missiles thing, right?
[01:59:52]  Right.
[01:59:52]  So this is all going sideways, and it doesn't have to.
[01:59:56]  It's because they're hiding everything from Kennedy all the time.
[01:59:59]  trying to push him around, make him do what they want him to do.
[02:00:03]  And he eventually figures out, and unfortunately it was very late in the game in the Cuban Missile Crisis.
[02:00:10]  It should have been much earlier, but he still says no.
[02:00:14]  He'd rather die than to cause this type of trauma to our planet.
[02:00:23]  And so was Martin Luther King like that.
[02:00:26]  And so was his brother eventually.
[02:00:27]  Bobby stopped being the protector of his brother.
[02:00:34]  Because his brother was dead and it was his job now.
[02:00:38]  And suddenly Bobby felt the weight of the world on his shoulders like it had been on his brother.
[02:00:47]  I wanted to talk before we get into how much time do we have?
[02:00:52]  Before we get into the Bobby and MLK stuff, I wanted to talk a little bit about the Seven Days in May movie.
[02:01:00]  Now, there was a movie or there was a novel that was written that JFK wrote and that was eventually turned into a film.
[02:01:07]  Can you explain the story behind that novel and then JFK's reaction to it?
[02:01:13]  Well, it was his belief and it wasn't his idea.
[02:01:17]  It was Frankenheimer and somebody else.
[02:01:22]  But Kennedy, he also had the same idea.
[02:01:26]  And so he was helpful when they asked for his help.
[02:01:37]  He's not the one who originated it.
[02:01:39]  He's the one who went along with it when he found out about what they were saying because he always believed that.
[02:01:44]  That's what I think explains the 63 things he was doing.
[02:01:48]  He thought that they were going to try and kill him.
[02:01:50]  So, the premise of this novel, Seven Days in May, is what it was called.
[02:01:53]  What it was called was that the military would overthrow the president.
[02:01:57]  A coup d'etat, yeah.
[02:01:58]  Which is exactly what ended up happening.
[02:02:00]  And what did he say?
[02:02:02]  He made some sort of a public statement or he sent some sort of a response based on his reaction to reading the novel that he said that it would be possible but very unlikely that that could happen.
[02:02:15]  Yeah, I don't remember the exact quotation, but yes, there was a mediocre.
[02:02:21]  Thing and he was very, he was a lot of people.
[02:02:23]  Maybe you could find that, Steve.
[02:02:24]  I think it's public, it's online somewhere.
[02:02:26]  Kennedy's reaction to seven days in May.
[02:02:29]  His public reaction.
[02:02:30]  His public reaction.
[02:02:31]  Yeah, because his private reaction was this is terrible.
[02:02:35]  He, you know, he was very afraid they would do it and that he wasn't going to live.
[02:02:40]  I can't bring it up.
[02:02:43]  All right, we can't.
[02:02:44]  Yeah, I'm not connected.
[02:02:45]  We lost control.

=== King, Civil Rights, and Hidden Stories (15:14) ===

[02:02:47]  That's okay.
[02:02:48]  No worries.
[02:02:50]  Yeah, so and then eventually that.
[02:02:52]  What was the story?
[02:02:52]  They wanted to shoot it at the.
[02:02:54]  Where did they want to film?
[02:02:55]  They wanted to film the movie at the White House or something.
[02:02:58]  No, they wanted to use the Pentagon.
[02:02:59]  They wanted to use the Pentagon, right.
[02:03:00]  And the Defense Department was not going to authorize that.
[02:03:04]  So Kennedy ended up letting him film it at the White House.
[02:03:06]  Yeah, he went down to Florida for a while and let them have the White House to do it.
[02:03:11]  Yeah.
[02:03:11]  Wow.
[02:03:14]  But it's a very good film.
[02:03:17]  And you know how people like films.
[02:03:19]  And so it will teach you quite a bit.
[02:03:21]  It was done very well.
[02:03:23]  There were one or two things I could.
[02:03:25]  You know, complain about here or there, but, you know, 90% they had it right on the nose.
[02:03:31]  It was a very good movie.
[02:03:33]  Okay, let's talk about Martin Luther King.
[02:03:35]  Okay.
[02:03:36]  Sound good?
[02:03:37]  Yeah.
[02:03:37]  You wrote a whole book?
[02:03:39]  Yes.
[02:03:39]  About Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy?
[02:03:41]  It hasn't been published.
[02:03:42]  Has not been published yet.
[02:03:44]  It's better because of all the new stuff I keep finding out.
[02:03:47]  So, what is the premise of this book?
[02:03:49]  The book is about the CIA penetration of Martin Luther King's inner circle.
[02:03:55]  Okay.
[02:03:57]  But it's growing into much more than that.
[02:04:00]  But that was how it started.
[02:04:03]  There's a lot of FBI in that, but it goes back well back into the past.
[02:04:09]  But what I wanted to do with you today isn't that part of it.
[02:04:14]  That's just something that's coming and that I have basically all the evidence that I need for what I have.
[02:04:25]  And there's more things that are coming that are going to be added to that.
[02:04:29]  But there's a piece of his story.
[02:04:32]  That fits in with what we're talking about here and that fits in with the larger story of MLK's life.
[02:04:41]  And I'm still getting reels now with my interns at James Madison University that have never been used before.
[02:04:50]  They're very hard to find, they're on old type machines, and we've got some new ones built at James Madison that we can use to examine the reels.
[02:05:00]  And it's just amazing.
[02:05:03]  Everything that Hoover was doing to stop the bus boycott, for one thing, and to stop King, period.
[02:05:19]  King was a real threat to Hoover.
[02:05:22]  And we have 21 reels, and each reel is a huge.
[02:05:33]  Many days to actually print out all the stuff that we have that Hoover was doing trying to stop.
[02:05:39]  You're talking about film reels.
[02:05:42]  They're microfish.
[02:05:44]  Film isn't, isn't what it is.
[02:05:46]  This is stuff that goes back into the uh 60s and 50s and so on.
[02:05:51]  They're they're, they're micro film, micro fiche they call it huh and they're.
[02:05:56]  They're not like the film stuff you see when you take it through.
[02:06:02]  But it kind of feels like it because it looks like it's film, but it's an earlier technology.
[02:06:11]  But it's very important, and not just on this subject, but on all kinds of other subjects.
[02:06:17]  And people who are doing PhDs that are going back in time trying to look at whether it's LBGT things or any topic that they're trying to study.
[02:06:27]  a historical perspective, you have to have these reels.
[02:06:30]  You have to dig them up because they exist.
[02:06:32]  But they're very hard to find because they've been housed in a company that does that and then exacts money out of places in order to let them use their stuff.
[02:06:43]  And then one big company swallows up another company.
[02:06:45]  And so it took me a long while to find.
[02:06:50]  these MLK, Hoover films.
[02:06:55]  And I'm using, and so that's another thing.
[02:06:59]  It's going to change a lot of things because until you have it in front of you, the exact things that Hoover is asking for and saying, it's not the same thing.
[02:07:12]  So this is a big project that is coming through, adding to the book that I've written.
[02:07:21]  Uh, in in many different ways.
[02:07:23]  So it's gonna it's gonna take me the rest of this year, and possibly some of next year, to finish the MLK book.
[02:07:30]  But it's only the first volume.
[02:07:33]  The second volume I really i've never announced it publicly what the title is.
[02:07:39]  Should I tell you yeah, break that news what the title of the second?
[02:07:45]  Well, it's so obvious, MLK in Vietnam.
[02:07:48]  Oh okay, that's the second, that's that's it.
[02:07:52]  Two, two volumes on MLK coming, Okay.
[02:07:55]  But the first one is going to be first.
[02:07:58]  And if somebody, people obviously are trying not to pay attention to me too much.
[02:08:04]  And so I'm not afraid of somebody doing it first.
[02:08:08]  And if they do a good job, good.
[02:08:09]  That means I don't have to do it.
[02:08:12]  Go ahead and do it for me so I don't have to do all that work.
[02:08:16]  So, why did Hoover want to stop MLK so bad?
[02:08:22]  Okay.
[02:08:22]  From the time he was in high school, The three, and he was in debate team, the three things he didn't like, let's see if I know all three of them.
[02:08:30]  One of them is he doesn't want civil rights, doesn't like black people.
[02:08:33]  Hoover.
[02:08:34]  Hoover does not like black people.
[02:08:37]  And what else didn't he like?
[02:08:45]  Oh, yes, no voting rights for women.
[02:08:50]  I forget the third one.
[02:08:52]  Anyway, this guy was, his racism he wasn't born racist, but he had a grandmother who used to come over and visit all the time, and she was hell on wheels on black people.
[02:09:07]  And she poisoned that young boy's mind.
[02:09:10]  That's how it started.
[02:09:11]  And it stayed with him his whole life.
[02:09:14]  He persecuted homosexuals, and he was a homosexual.
[02:09:19]  He was actually the woman in the partnership.
[02:09:22]  Oh, wow.
[02:09:22]  He was the bottom, huh?
[02:09:23]  Yeah, because he liked powerful men.
[02:09:27]  And that's who Clyde Tolson, his partner, was.
[02:09:29]  Yeah.
[02:09:32]  That's a crazy story in itself.
[02:09:33]  Yeah.
[02:09:34]  Do you go through all that in your book?
[02:09:36]  Well, I'm going to go through a lot of it.
[02:09:39]  There are other things written about this.
[02:09:46]  But I'll do my own thing.
[02:09:47]  Right.
[02:09:49]  So, what was going on during that part of the.
[02:09:53]  So, can you explain what was going on when JFK was campaigning and what was going on with him and MLK?
[02:10:03]  And I forget.
[02:10:04]  Can you remind me who was running against JFK?
[02:10:08]  It was Nixon.
[02:10:08]  Nixon.
[02:10:09]  Yeah.
[02:10:09]  Nixon.
[02:10:10]  So, can you give context to that and kind of explain what was happening in that era right there, like the relationship between MLK and JFK and that whole presidential race?
[02:10:19]  I like the use, the term footsteps erased for a lot of things, like geology and things like that, that things have been erased because people don't want to change their views on things.
[02:10:32]  But it works perfectly for Martin Luther King because people have forgotten a lot of things.
[02:10:38]  And this is one episode in his life, not the one that everybody.
[02:10:43]  Like the bus boycott was a big deal, and there were other things that were a big deal.
[02:10:48]  But this is a very interesting one.
[02:10:50]  Once you know about it, you'll never forget it.
[02:10:53]  So, this was the campaign, the Kennedy campaign was in its final stages.
[02:11:01]  And what happened was there was talk about meeting with King.
[02:11:08]  And so it was difficult, though, because the campaign itself, There were three of them, Sergeant Shriver, who was part of the Kennedy family, and a guy by Harris Wofford, and one other person.
[02:11:28]  Where they worked in Washington during the campaign was around the corner so that nobody would see them.
[02:11:35]  You have a storefront of the campaign, but you don't see any blacks in there because they're very worried about the Southern white vote.
[02:11:46]  And that had been.
[02:11:47]  but it always worked for Democrats.
[02:11:50]  That's where they get their breadbasket, right?
[02:11:53]  So the Kennedy civil rights team was very small, but very crafty people.
[02:12:01]  Yeah, they were smart.
[02:12:04]  But they were around the other block, so nobody could see who they were and what they were doing.
[02:12:11]  So at the last moment, they decide to do something about it because that's what they're doing for.
[02:12:17]  They're supposed to help the black vote.
[02:12:20]  So they get to work.
[02:12:23]  Now, here's what happens.
[02:12:25]  There are seven steps.
[02:12:27]  Let me see.
[02:12:28]  One, two, three, four, five, six, basically seven or six steps that take place in a short period of time between 17 October and 28 October.
[02:12:38]  Okay, this is very close to the election.
[02:12:43]  And each one of these events produces a second event.
[02:12:49]  And the second event won't happen unless.
[02:12:51]  The one before it does.
[02:12:52]  And so the first thing is you have a lot of sit-ins going on all over the South by students, high school students, in several states.
[02:13:03]  And they're going into soda fountain places like that together as black people, and they're not supposed to be there.
[02:13:12]  And so they're getting smacked.
[02:13:14]  They're getting stuff poured all over their heads.
[02:13:16]  And so these students have been doing this in a lot of southern states.
[02:13:21]  And they've been after King, asking him to come and support them, to come to one of these events.
[02:13:26]  And King is sort of happy not to have to go there because he's got all these other things.
[02:13:31]  And so here's what happens.
[02:13:35]  So they agree on, they're going to have a meeting, Kennedy and King.
[02:13:40]  And then King says at the last minute, Look, I have to tell you something.
[02:13:45]  And, oh, what's that?
[02:13:46]  Well, I have to give Nixon a chance, too, to be fair.
[02:13:50]  And Kennedy says, Oh, no, we're not doing that.
[02:13:52]  We're out of here.
[02:13:54]  Kennedy did not want to do it on that basis.
[02:13:59]  So now all of a sudden.
[02:14:03]  So just quick context.
[02:14:05]  At that point in time, the African American vote in the U.S. was Republican.
[02:14:11]  I'm going to get to that, yeah.
[02:14:12]  But this is where things start, which is that you have a bunch of kids that are trying to do something about that, okay?
[02:14:24]  Kids, not King.
[02:14:26]  He's not in there yet.
[02:14:27]  Students.
[02:14:28]  Students are doing it all by themselves, that's right.
[02:14:32]  And so King comes to understand that these people are far more.
[02:14:38]  Um, you know, brave than I am, and it's and it worries him.
[02:14:42]  He prays about it, and and and so at this point, when when uh JFK cancels their proposed meeting and the kids find out about it, they come to him again and say, Come on, you can, you know, what do you got to lose now?
[02:14:58]  And so he he does go to the kids, go to who to King to King, yeah, okay, and tell him, Okay, come on, it's time.
[02:15:06]  And so he does, he goes to his first sit in.
[02:15:10]  And, you know, and they, the courses were pouring milkshakes on people's heads and doing all that stuff and pushing them and doing things like that.
[02:15:18]  And so they arrest everybody, but they release everybody except King.
[02:15:23]  So King is now his first, and he's never been arrested before.
[02:15:26]  This is the first arrest of Martin Luther King at the Soda Fountains, and they let them all go except for him.
[02:15:34]  Now he had, and this is an adjacent county called DeKalb County, which is a terrible county, very racist county.
[02:15:42]  Where?
[02:15:42]  What state?
[02:15:43]  This is happening in Georgia.
[02:15:47]  So he agrees to do it.
[02:15:50]  He's arrested.
[02:15:51]  Everybody else is let go.
[02:15:52]  But in the adjacent county in Georgia to the county they were in, I guess it was in the Atlanta area, he has a parking, a car citation of some sort, which he told his financial guy to pay.
[02:16:15]  And as far as he knew, it was paid.
[02:16:16]  Well, apparently it wasn't.
[02:16:18]  It was just a minor traffic violence, minor traffic violence.
[02:16:22]  That's all it was.
[02:16:23]  They put him on the chain gang at the Reedsville Federal Penitentiary.
[02:16:30]  And a lot of people, these are blacks that are being put on the chain gangs, and a lot of them are not coming out alive.
[02:16:37]  All right.
[02:16:37]  And so this is a big, oh my God, what are we going to do?
[02:16:43]  So now we have that's the third event.
[02:16:46]  Right?
[02:16:47]  So it all has to start with JFK canceling his, you know, the meeting.
[02:16:53]  And so these are the dominoes that are falling.
[02:16:56]  And so what happens now is that the civil rights team decides they're going to do something.
[02:17:03]  So Wofford has the idea why don't we, in this very moment, have JFK call Coretta King with a sympathy call?
[02:17:15]  And so the problem is that.
[02:17:18]  Everybody is in his bedroom at an airport where he's getting to go someplace.
[02:17:22]  And so they have to wait until everybody walks out of the bedroom because they know that if they dare say anything about blacks, it's going to be canceled.
[02:17:32]  Not going to let it happen.
[02:17:34]  Okay.
[02:17:35]  So they wait.
[02:17:37]  And so in the room is Sergeant Shriver.
[02:17:41]  And Kennedy lays down on the bed.
[02:17:44]  And so he says, oh, and he says very quietly what Wofford said.
[02:17:50]  He suggests that you call Coretta King.
[02:17:54]  And Kennedy doesn't even think about it.
[02:17:56]  He just gets up and gets the phone and makes the call.
[02:17:59]  It doesn't coordinate with any of his staff at all.

=== Shriver's Bedroom Conversation in 1960 (13:35) ===

[02:18:02]  Okay.
[02:18:03]  And she's flummoxed.
[02:18:04]  She doesn't know what to say.
[02:18:05]  And she says, Yeah, wow, anything you can do, it'd be great.
[02:18:08]  You know, and it's like that.
[02:18:10]  And that's all there was to it.
[02:18:12]  And then RFK finds out what's happening and he does something he shouldn't do.
[02:18:17]  He intervenes in the case and calls the judge who made the decision.
[02:18:23]  He's the attorney general.
[02:18:24]  You're not really supposed to do that kind of thing.
[02:18:26]  But he does.
[02:18:27]  He calls up and reaches out.
[02:18:28]  Wait, this is before he was elected, though, right?
[02:18:31]  That's right.
[02:18:34]  Yes.
[02:18:34]  Yeah.
[02:18:34]  He's not the attorney general.
[02:18:35]  He's not the president yet.
[02:18:36]  No, he's not.
[02:18:37]  Right.
[02:18:38]  He's not the president and it's not the attorney general.
[02:18:40]  Right.
[02:18:41]  But he is Bobby's, excuse me, he is JFK's brother.
[02:18:48]  Right.
[02:18:49]  And he is an attorney.
[02:18:50]  Okay.
[02:18:51]  He's not the attorney general, but he is an attorney.
[02:18:53]  Okay.
[02:18:54]  And an attorney is not supposed to interfere in cases unless he has a, but anyway, this is a personal thing and he shouldn't be doing it, but he does.
[02:19:02]  And he calls Judge Mach.
[02:19:04]  And tells him everything that we know.
[02:19:06]  And Judge Mates realizes this is going to get out now in the newspapers and everything.
[02:19:10]  So he agrees to let him out of prison.
[02:19:13]  So now he's out of prison.
[02:19:18]  And oh, does the whippings happen?
[02:19:24]  So Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, tells his brother, okay, he says, you've done it now.
[02:19:30]  You've lost the election.
[02:19:33]  They thought because it got made it out into the public that him and Bobby got.
[02:19:38]  MLK out of prison, they were going to lose the white, the southern white boat.
[02:19:42]  Yeah.
[02:19:43]  That's right.
[02:19:45]  He said, what did he say?
[02:19:47]  Here it is.
[02:19:47]  No, that's something else.
[02:19:54]  Anyway, look, let's just do this.
[02:19:57]  So they put together a plan to send out pamphlets to all African Americans across America.
[02:20:11]  And they actually ended up printing 2 million of them in churches.
[02:20:16]  They're going to distribute them in churches the weekend before the actual election itself.
[02:20:23]  And they do that.
[02:20:26]  And Sergeant Shriver is the one who actually decides on a daring gamble at the very end.
[02:20:33]  What they do is they establish a committee called a, quote, dummy committee, unquote, of preachers that have nothing to do with this.
[02:20:44]  Say that they're doing it so that nobody in the Kennedy campaign has touched it.
[02:20:50]  So, this is a stealth operation that the Shrivers covert preachers.
[02:20:54]  Yeah, that's what they're doing.
[02:20:57]  And so, and it works.
[02:21:00]  And so, they print all these things that they call them the blue bomb because it was printed on blue paper.
[02:21:07]  They put in the, you know, the Shriver makes the final decision to do it on his own.
[02:21:14]  He'll take the responsibility for it.
[02:21:17]  And financed the pamphlet himself.
[02:21:19]  But, you know, he was so lambasted by Bobby, it almost ruined the relationship between Triver and the rest of the Kennedy family.
[02:21:27]  And he did the same thing to Wofford tongue lashings and all that stuff.
[02:21:30]  But he himself had made that call to the judge, to Judge Mitchell.
[02:21:36]  So this small group of these three guys had no intention of stopping, even though they were told not to do another damn thing.
[02:21:45]  And they did.
[02:21:47]  And so here comes the blue bomb.
[02:21:52]  And what happens here, I think it's.
[02:21:56]  Whoa, what did I say?
[02:21:57]  250,000 black votes?
[02:22:00]  Yeah.
[02:22:01]  I'm going up here.
[02:22:06]  Here it is.
[02:22:08]  So, what happens is that seven states go to JFK instead of Nixon, that would have gone to Nixon.
[02:22:18]  And you can look at the math.
[02:22:20]  It's just.
[02:22:20]  Do we know what states those are?
[02:22:22]  Yeah, I'm listing them right here.
[02:22:24]  Oh, okay.
[02:22:25]  Most of them, anyway.
[02:22:27]  So, you take Illinois.
[02:22:29]  There might have been some piddling around in there.
[02:22:31]  Illinois was the mob stuff, right?
[02:22:33]  Yeah, but it wasn't everybody in the mob.
[02:22:35]  I mean, the mob.
[02:22:36]  Can't reach, you know, 250,000 people.
[02:22:38]  So they upped it, I'm sure.
[02:22:41]  And maybe that state itself might not have gone.
[02:22:45]  But anyway, overall, the Republicans had always got 60% of the black vote.
[02:22:53]  60%.
[02:22:54]  60%.
[02:22:55]  Okay.
[02:22:56]  All the way back for years and years and years.
[02:22:58]  To Lincoln.
[02:22:59]  That's right.
[02:23:00]  And then all of a sudden, in this election, 1960, now 75% of the Democrats.
[02:23:07]  And so you only get the.
[02:23:10]  The Republicans are now only getting 25% of the vote instead of 60, right?
[02:23:14]  Wow, what a swing that is.
[02:23:16]  It's huge.
[02:23:17]  And it's still the closest election in history up to that point.
[02:23:21]  So it's the civil rights section that is responsible for this.
[02:23:24]  And we've been talking about that.
[02:23:26]  And so anyway, we have several states we mentioned here Carolinas, it's in the Carolinas, it's Michigan.
[02:23:38]  There's seven states in all.
[02:23:41]  And that is what.
[02:23:42]  The blue bomb was seven states.
[02:23:44]  That's right.
[02:23:45]  Now, I want to just say this about this particular story.
[02:23:56]  Okay.
[02:23:58]  You see, people don't remember this.
[02:24:01]  And it's amazing that they don't.
[02:24:03]  Because it was in the newspapers, but it was just like one day.
[02:24:07]  So, you know how a one day thing can happen, and then it's like it didn't happen because just people go on to football games or whatever else they do.
[02:24:13]  Yeah.
[02:24:14]  You know?
[02:24:15]  So, but this is.
[02:24:18]  What I have to say.
[02:24:19]  This is just me talking here.
[02:24:21]  I am pondering what I think is a real forgotten dichotomy.
[02:24:25]  And it's all because of the black vote.
[02:24:27]  There were bad things that did not happen because of the role of the black vote in the 1960 election.
[02:24:34]  For example, descended the wars in both hemispheres of our planet that would have led to a terrible Armageddon.
[02:24:41]  We know how many times that happened as well.
[02:24:44]  The other thing that I ponder at the same time is the good things that did happen because of the role the race played in the election, and that's JFK's new frontier.
[02:24:56]  Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security benefits, minimum wage, low-income housing, Peace Corps, and Peace Instead of War.
[02:25:02]  He took care of the little guys, the poor guys, and by the time three years later, everybody was making money, rich people and poor people.
[02:25:15]  Isn't that weird?
[02:25:16]  It's in three years because he had the economics group of a lifetime.
[02:25:21]  It was John Kenneth Galbraith.
[02:25:24]  So without MLK, there's no way that JFK was going to be president.
[02:25:37]  Okay?
[02:25:39]  And so in retrospect, we have three people MLK and JFK and RFK, not to mention.
[02:25:45]  The civil rights unit that were responsible for the remarkable change.
[02:25:49]  But those three guys that I just mentioned were all assassinated within eight years.
[02:25:54]  Within eight years.
[02:25:56]  So, fast forward now.
[02:25:59]  Suppose that you and I live through our lives and it keeps on going because we don't destroy the planet.
[02:26:08]  That's hard to believe the way we're going right now.
[02:26:10]  But let's just say that we don't destroy this planet and it doesn't destroy us for what we're doing on it.
[02:26:16]  What will the people say 150 years from now?
[02:26:20]  Okay, so we're going to 2170 or something.
[02:26:24]  What will they think about the election of 1960?
[02:26:29]  Will it be there at all?
[02:26:30]  Yes, it will be, but none of the details will be there.
[02:26:33]  Right.
[02:26:34]  Only one thing.
[02:26:35]  They'll remember, we are alive today because MLK and JFK saved the world from the destruction of an Armageddon.
[02:26:43]  That's it.
[02:26:44]  That's simple.
[02:26:45]  That's all, but it's a lot.
[02:26:49]  And we don't even know we're going to get that far.
[02:26:51]  I mean, something else could happen and it doesn't.
[02:26:54]  It's a miracle that all of those chains of events happened the way they did.
[02:26:59]  Yeah.
[02:26:59]  Because it was so close.
[02:27:01]  Yeah.
[02:27:02]  So many times it was like on the brink.
[02:27:05]  So you kind of have to think that maybe the universe up there had its shit together.
[02:27:11]  Yeah.
[02:27:12]  Like I said to you last night, it feels like it's that movie, The Adjustment Bureau, where it's just these little decisions you have to make one way or the other.
[02:27:22]  So I realized this is not the MLK story itself, big story, but it is a piece that really is a big story all by itself, just by itself.
[02:27:34]  And these guys were both had moral compasses.
[02:27:38]  Yeah.
[02:27:39]  And Bobby did too after this was over when it was his turn, he did too.
[02:27:44]  And they knew that too.
[02:27:45]  The black people changed immediately and they said, Bobby's white, but he's right.
[02:27:52]  Can you talk a little bit about what happened to Bobby afterwards?
[02:27:56]  Why?
[02:27:57]  Well, he had a lot of arguments with a number of black intellectuals, and that didn't last forever.
[02:28:06]  The thing that turned it around was there was an assassination of one of the candidates.
[02:28:13]  I'm sorry, I can't remember the name, but a well known black leader was assassinated.
[02:28:18]  I mean, it might have even been what's his name that had to go to Mecca before he changed his mind about white people being bad.
[02:28:32]  But anyway, so after this assassination, Bobby Kennedy went by himself down into the ghettos.
[02:28:41]  One white guy standing up on the back of something in front of hundreds and hundreds of black people.
[02:28:48]  And he made a speech to them that they never forgot that spoke to what they wanted and what he wanted to do for African Americans.
[02:28:59]  And that turned everything around.
[02:29:02]  And by the time he was assassinated, very much like the JFK assassination, which was in full view of everything, right at the point where it would do the most, not just damage, but scare enough people.
[02:29:20]  Well, everybody knew that was tracking things, especially the people that didn't like Bobby Kennedy, knew that he was going to win California.
[02:29:31]  By that time, he'd collected enough information.
[02:29:35]  Credits, or whatever you call them, that he was going to get the nomination and he was probably going to win.
[02:29:42]  And so that night was the special night where he was over the top and everybody was celebrating and they shot him in the kitchen that very moment.
[02:29:51]  They didn't wait till later.
[02:29:53]  Or, like James Galbraith said, you know, he could have just been a syringe used.
[02:29:59]  This was in your face, same way they did his brother.
[02:30:05]  Right.
[02:30:06]  That's what happened.
[02:30:07]  And so.
[02:30:10]  They killed him and they killed Martin Luther King within six weeks of each other.
[02:30:18]  And was it the same forces behind the JFK assassination that was behind Bobby's assassination?
[02:30:23]  Well, we know more about the military stuff.
[02:30:27]  I went down to Memphis, Tennessee for the 60th anniversary sometime last year and met a guy who was curator of the King records that were there.
[02:30:38]  The biggest King records are close by in another town.
[02:30:43]  But yes, he showed us evidence of two Army sniper groups that were on right there, right where, you know, on the other side of the pool that was empty at that time, there were a bunch of bushes up there.
[02:31:00]  And that's where one of the teams were.
[02:31:03]  And the picture you see mostly when you look at it is Jackson pointing up.
[02:31:09]  It looks like he's pointing across to the place that this, what's his name, was with the rifle, is standing on a bathtub trying to shoot.
[02:31:18]  Well, they're not pointing there because it's the wrong angle.
[02:31:21]  And you see what they're pointing is over the other to the left.
[02:31:25]  And so, yeah, there were sniper units in Memphis at that time, too.
[02:31:32]  Wow.
[02:31:34]  So there's more work to do there.
[02:31:35]  I need to go talk to that guy again.

=== Jackson, the Rifle, and the Bathtub (08:53) ===

[02:31:37]  And, you know, I'm a busy guy besides, you know, doing a little bit of yoga, but also doing a lot of research and stuff because that's what I'm doing.
[02:31:48]  Yeah.
[02:31:49]  And so I'm a moving target.
[02:31:51]  You never know what it's going to be next.
[02:31:54]  And you got a book about yoga too, right?
[02:31:59]  Well, it's partially about yoga.
[02:32:01]  What kind of yoga?
[02:32:03]  Do you do Kundalini?
[02:32:04]  No.
[02:32:05]  No.
[02:32:06]  No, I don't.
[02:32:07]  The Kundalini thing is all these breaths, these crazy breaths.
[02:32:12]  And Iyengar doesn't like to criticize anybody else.
[02:32:19]  But that's not his cup of tea.
[02:32:20]  Iyengar is the guy.
[02:32:24]  We will talk about this another time, but it all came West because they ran out of what they could do with it in India.
[02:32:33]  Believe it or not, it was for a show for the upper classes.
[02:32:39]  The yogis were just a show, like a circus or something.
[02:32:43]  But Krisna Macharya was a very forceful force in yoga.
[02:32:53]  That was his name, and he had three disciples.
[02:32:56]  One was his son, Vinny.
[02:32:59]  And then there was also a guy called Patabi Joyce, who was his disciple.
[02:33:07]  And then his best disciple left him.
[02:33:11]  Don't even know his name.
[02:33:13]  But his sister, Krishna Macharya's sister, was married to a sickly guy.
[02:33:19]  His name was Iyengar.
[02:33:20]  And everybody thought he wasn't going to live past 20, 25 years.
[02:33:24]  because he had TB and some other things.
[02:33:28]  Anyway, he ended up not dying at all and ended up being the best yogi probably in history, in modern history.
[02:33:37]  He learned English very well and astrophysics and all kinds of things and was considered, he was treated as a statesman all over the world, no matter where he went, except for India, because he was a householder.
[02:33:53]  He was a Brahmin.
[02:33:55]  And he didn't take the Brahmin caste.
[02:33:59]  He didn't like caste.
[02:34:00]  And so he married and had children and had one child.
[02:34:06]  And so they forsaked him for that.
[02:34:11]  But many years later, when in India they discovered how popular he is around the entire world, all of a sudden they decided he was a good guy and he was their guy.
[02:34:23]  But I studied a lot of yoga because accidentally I came across it.
[02:34:29]  And the first class I took, I had a buzz all the way to the parking lot.
[02:34:35]  So I knew that moment there that I was going to do yoga for the rest of my life.
[02:34:40]  So I began to study how many forms there were from the get-go and ended up being a teacher now for 30 years, a yoga instructor.
[02:34:53]  But I've pared down, I had huge amounts of teaching that I did all through the Shenandoah Valley.
[02:35:01]  But now I only have time for two or three people that I know that have been with me for a long while, and I just don't have the time anymore.
[02:35:11]  But I do it myself, and I treat a couple of old people until they are dying, and yoga is used.
[02:35:20]  Really?
[02:35:21]  Yes.
[02:35:22]  Yes.
[02:35:22]  I had a very, very close woman that I did practice yoga with for 32 years, and she died recently, about eight or nine months ago.
[02:35:33]  And I kept her alive for two or three years with yoga.
[02:35:38]  Yeah.
[02:35:39]  How old was she?
[02:35:41]  She was 81.
[02:35:44]  She was able to move around and be flexible like that at that age?
[02:35:47]  That's pretty incredible.
[02:35:49]  Yeah.
[02:35:50]  In the last days, I had to lie her down.
[02:35:54]  And we were able to do upper body poses and a lot of other things.
[02:36:01]  She had very little memory left, but she remembered me because we went back so far.
[02:36:07]  And so she would come in the house, say something.
[02:36:11]  I would say something, and she couldn't remember it three minutes later.
[02:36:14]  But I told her jokes.
[02:36:17]  I kept her laughing and I kept her.
[02:36:19]  Flexible and, you know, and eating.
[02:36:24]  And eventually, when she died, her daughter, who has a big job, she is basically running Estee Lauder, the largest women's cosmetics thing in the world.
[02:36:36]  We had to go up to New York twice a week.
[02:36:40]  Anyway, I'm doing somebody now who's 87.
[02:36:44]  Wow.
[02:36:45]  Yeah.
[02:36:48]  That's incredible.
[02:36:48]  There's a lot of weird connections with.
[02:36:50]  Like esotericism and yoga, especially kundalini yoga, people like getting into weird psychic states.
[02:36:57]  Yeah, well, you can do that without doing kundalini.
[02:37:01]  It's called pratyahara.
[02:37:02]  We all do that at the end of a yoga session, is to lie down as, like, a dead person would, and you stop thinking.
[02:37:12]  It's not thinking.
[02:37:14]  That's what pratyahara is.
[02:37:17]  And when you not think for a long time, all kinds of things come to you that you should have been listening for, but you're talking so much that you.
[02:37:25]  You're just not letting the universe say anything to you at all.
[02:37:28]  Like downloads or something?
[02:37:30]  Well, look, everything in your body and your phone and your, I mean, this cup is even inert things like this.
[02:37:39]  It's not alive.
[02:37:39]  It doesn't have DNA in it.
[02:37:40]  But anyway, it's all just vibration.
[02:37:45]  Everything at the smallest level.
[02:37:49]  Right.
[02:37:50]  And it's vibration.
[02:37:53]  Everything in this room is vibrating.
[02:37:55]  You and I are changing our genomes right now because we're breathing to each other.
[02:37:59]  Our genomes are changing because we're in the room together.
[02:38:03]  So you would be amazed how much, and we know this is science, this is not silliness, that we know is happening inside of us and outside of us.
[02:38:14]  And the infinity is outside of you, but it's also infinite inside.
[02:38:19]  You can keep going smaller and smaller and smaller that way.
[02:38:21]  Right, right.
[02:38:22]  And so we are all connected.
[02:38:27]  And so when people talk about, you know, being reborn, It's not about like that.
[02:38:34]  It's a law of astrophysics, actually, that all matter, any matter, and that is information, any information cannot be destroyed.
[02:38:48]  Not even into a black hole.
[02:38:51]  It's still there.
[02:38:52]  Or come out if there's a white hole on the other one, who knows?
[02:38:54]  Information can't be destroyed.
[02:38:56]  It's there, it's around you.
[02:38:58]  So, what happens if you run into this information and suddenly, for some reason, you like it or it likes you?
[02:39:07]  You're speaking in tongues and saying things you couldn't say before.
[02:39:11]  It doesn't matter.
[02:39:13]  Everything is connected.
[02:39:16]  Everything is connected.
[02:39:17]  And once you understand that, there's a lot of silly theories you can let go of and start to get real and understand that there's a lot of stuff around you and in you that you're not even paying attention to.
[02:39:29]  You have a brain that's much bigger than you're using.
[02:39:32]  Right.
[02:39:33]  For example.
[02:39:34]  Right.
[02:39:35]  So.
[02:39:37]  I don't want to go too far with this.
[02:39:39]  It's fascinating, though.
[02:39:41]  I like learning about that kind of stuff.
[02:39:42]  It's very interesting.
[02:39:43]  Well, I spend my life doing it.
[02:39:44]  Yeah.
[02:39:45]  I do.
[02:39:45]  But a lot of it has to wait.
[02:39:50]  What I'm doing is basically for myself and my family, a couple of close friends, when I talk to them about some of these things.
[02:39:57]  But right now I have a mission, and I'm hoping.
[02:40:00]  What's your mission?
[02:40:01]  My mission is to.
[02:40:02]  Scoot into the Michael.
[02:40:04]  Well, I have.
[02:40:06]  I interpret my instructions are to finish these books that I'm writing on the 20th century.
[02:40:19]  Before it all disappears.
[02:40:21]  And when that's over, if I live long enough, I'm probably going to be 83 or 84 by the time that happens, okay, when it's done.
[02:40:29]  I have written two novels.

=== Cro-Magnons and Ancient Evidence (09:31) ===

[02:40:31]  I've written a screenplay and a lot of other things that go way back into geology and things like that.
[02:40:37]  And so.
[02:40:38]  You wrote the screenplay for Oliver's first JFK movie?
[02:40:42]  I wrote some of that.
[02:40:43]  That came out of my book, JFK in Vietnam.
[02:40:45]  Right.
[02:40:46]  But I'm not talking about that.
[02:40:47]  I'm talking about a screenplay for, it's called War of the Ice Ages.
[02:40:52]  And that's just the first volume.
[02:40:54]  War of the Ice Ages.
[02:40:55]  Yes, it's everything that did exist in the Ice Ages.
[02:41:01]  Okay.
[02:41:02]  And there were which kind of humans, what kind of animals, everything and what they did.
[02:41:08]  And there were wars between Cro Magnons and other species of humans that could actually have intercourse and create a hybrid humans.
[02:41:21]  And we did that.
[02:41:23]  Do you think there were wars between different species on Earth during the Pleistocene?
[02:41:28]  Yeah, well, we know of.
[02:41:34]  There were, when the ice caps got big, the ocean levels went down, and the people who lived on the Canary Islands went twice over to what is Spain.
[02:41:46]  And they're the ones that are responsible for all the cave paintings that you've seen.
[02:41:52]  And they're.
[02:41:53]  What time period are we talking about right now?
[02:41:56]  Well, probably around 500,000 years.
[02:41:59]  500,000 years.
[02:42:00]  Yeah, from the beginning, though.
[02:42:02]  So you have very primitive tools way back.
[02:42:05]  But when we get to about 150,000 years, there's an amazing advance in both the humans themselves are six feet three inches tall with male brains about 2,000, 2,100.
[02:42:27]  You and I, our biggest men now is about 16, 1650.
[02:42:34]  Women are about 1,200.
[02:42:37]  So the Cro Magnons, the true Cro Magnons.
[02:42:39]  Our brain sizes?
[02:42:41]  Our huge brains and thin bones, which is thin bones, casings of the brains and other bones, which is indicative of advanced humans.
[02:42:53]  And so, yeah, we know a lot about these things, but the problem is a lot of the American.
[02:42:59]  Um, paleontologists like to go to the Bahamas for their vacations.
[02:43:07]  And guess what?
[02:43:08]  The British and the French people they went down to the Canaries.
[02:43:10]  And I went down to the Canaries once and I saw El Museo Canario and it blew my mind.
[02:43:18]  It was a museum, Steve.
[02:43:20]  Can you take over control with some photos here?
[02:43:26]  Sorry, sorry to interrupt.
[02:43:27]  Keep going.
[02:43:28]  It well, and so there were like six floors and.
[02:43:31]  In the staircase were the glass cases with the skeletons.
[02:43:36]  So there were about 60 full skeletons of these Cro Magnons.
[02:43:39]  And then the rooms around a floor were all the items that they made, all the needles out of bone and things like that, and clothing and things like that.
[02:43:51]  And you could go, I forget which, it started from the oldest to the youngest.
[02:43:58]  And the youngest ones, there were two invasions of these people during Glacial Maxima, about 40,000 BC and then 12,000 BC. is when they got over there.
[02:44:13]  And that's why we still, but you know what?
[02:44:16]  It's very strange because it's southeast Spain.
[02:44:20]  And what's survived of the bodies and stuff, they know that they were talking to the mic so I can hear.
[02:44:28]  They were blonde-haired, blue-eyed people that still exist in that very small part of Spain.
[02:44:35]  You would think they would be from Norway or something, right?
[02:44:38]  But no, these people came, they were called the Guanche, is the name.
[02:44:43]  The Guanche.
[02:44:44]  The oldest human genome recovered from the southern tip of Spain adds an important piece of the puzzle to the genetic history of Europe.
[02:44:51]  A new study reports the genome date from a 23,000 year old individual who lived in what was probably the warmest place in Europe at the peak of the last ice age.
[02:45:03]  Well, it was actually not so much Europe, but it looked like Europe because there was a land bridge.
[02:45:10]  Right, right.
[02:45:11]  To the islands down there in the Canary Islands.
[02:45:14]  Right now, when you go down there, they're just islands.
[02:45:17]  The gaunches were the indigenous inhabitants of the Canary Islands in the Atlantic Ocean, some 100 kilometers, 60 miles west of the North African coast.
[02:45:27]  Huh.
[02:45:30]  Anyway, I've been collecting, I went there and brought back with me tons of studies, but they were not done by American scientists.
[02:45:36]  They were done by European scientists because the American scientists have had little, done little about it compared to the Europeans.
[02:45:44]  Hmm.
[02:45:46]  Closer to home, I guess.
[02:45:47]  I don't know.
[02:45:49]  Yeah.
[02:45:49]  What?
[02:45:50]  So, this was much before.
[02:45:54]  So, you're obviously familiar with the younger Dryas hypothesis, impact hypothesis, that it was cosmic impacts that melted the ice sheets and caused the Great Flood.
[02:46:04]  Oh, that's written about in multiple biblical texts and around the world and different cultures.
[02:46:08]  I've visited them in Southeast Asia.
[02:46:10]  All these tribes down there all have the same mores, not mores.
[02:46:15]  They have the same stories that they tell back in their.
[02:46:20]  From their generations, and they're different languages and different people, and they all still tell the same thing, yeah.
[02:46:28]  It's around the world, it's wild, it really is.
[02:46:30]  And so, I've had multiple people on here that talk a lot about that kind of stuff.
[02:46:33]  Well, I've got a book I've written, but it's one of the first things I was doing in my 20s, and so it's not even well, it's typed, I did type it a little bit, but it's not on something like this.
[02:46:47]  Have you seen the Northwestern Scablands?
[02:46:53]  Of the United States?
[02:46:55]  No.
[02:46:56]  If you could pull it up, pull up.
[02:46:57]  Did you say Northeastern or Western?
[02:46:59]  Western in the Northwest United States.
[02:47:02]  All I know about that is that they talk about people came to us at the very end, just before the Ice Age.
[02:47:09]  Yeah, look at the second one, the middle one.
[02:47:15]  So this is what a guy, a friend of mine, Randall Carlson, has been on the podcast many times, and he has, he takes tours of people out here to the scablands.
[02:47:26]  And His hypothesis is that this is all evidence for mega floods.
[02:47:33]  He thinks that there was a cosmic impact that hit the Canadian ice sheet on the southern border of Canada and melted it instantaneously, which was hundreds of millions of tons of water flowing south over the United States, which created these channeled scablands, which we see now that are all dry.
[02:47:58]  And these were basically giant rivers that were.
[02:48:02]  Flowing at hundreds of miles per hour.
[02:48:06]  Like, look, go down, you can see that.
[02:48:08]  And he has evidence to show that this is all just massive water erosion.
[02:48:14]  And it was all through North America.
[02:48:16]  Look at that.
[02:48:20]  Yeah, I think that's pretty incredible stuff.
[02:48:22]  And you have things that happen after that too, which is why everything's so flat on the top.
[02:48:27]  Yeah.
[02:48:27]  The further north you go, the ice sheets that came over those just, it was like getting a haircut.
[02:48:33]  Right.
[02:48:34]  Yeah.
[02:48:34]  And he, I mean, his hypothesis is that this all happened between 11,900 and 12,500 years ago, something like that, during like a 1,000 year period, which is called the Younger Dries.
[02:48:47]  But mainstream geologists don't take it seriously.
[02:48:51]  They call it pseudo science.
[02:48:53]  We have a problem with mainstream geologists because they're trying to say that human beings did not come here until, you know, 10,000 BC, around that time.
[02:49:04]  And yet we have sight evidence.
[02:49:07]  After site after sap, North America's and the South America, and it's humans that have been there 40,000, 50,000, and 60,000 years ago, right?
[02:49:17]  And it's and so you know, these people remind me of researchers in a certain area that don't want to change their minds about things because they don't want to be wrong about something, right?
[02:49:30]  And when we have new information, right?
[02:49:32]  And so, there's a whole bunch of information, uh, about you know, that the first people who came, we talk about the Vikings, the Chinese.
[02:49:41]  Started in the Shanghai Jing, there was a huge axis that changed and it caused a lot of storms and things.
[02:49:50]  But an emperor during the recovery period sent out four expeditions to redraw the earth, such as it was north, south, east, and west.

=== Shanghai Jing and Ancient Storms (03:13) ===

[02:50:03]  Well, when you go east, there's nothing but water.
[02:50:05]  So it's the Eastern, the Shanghai Jing, the Eastern classics of mountains and rivers.
[02:50:14]  Shanghai Jing.
[02:50:14]  That's the English interpretation of them.
[02:50:17]  And so they came and started on what is basically the mountain range, all from Canada all the way down to the South Pole.
[02:50:30]  It's a huge uplift, huge uplift along that whole.
[02:50:33]  And there are three-legged pots.
[02:50:37]  Guess where they come from?
[02:50:39]  China.
[02:50:41]  And little things that they made out of clay stuff of Fu Manchus.
[02:50:47]  And their traditions tell them that some guy who was very smart brought them civilization and told them how to do a lot of things, this Fu Manchu guy.
[02:51:03]  Anyway, there's a lot of this material in China.
[02:51:07]  Some of it is still buried and they're leaving it for who knows why they're leaving some of it buried.
[02:51:13]  But I've been to the digs up there because I was in.
[02:51:17]  That area of the world for quite some time, and I went up there and saw a lot of this stuff.
[02:51:23]  So, yeah, it's um, I had this guy, a friend of mine, uh, Ben Van Kirkwick, who's also been here.
[02:51:29]  I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he did some analysis of some of the stone vases that are found in Egypt.
[02:51:38]  And he took them to, he found some people who purchased stone vases.
[02:51:44]  I don't know where he purchased them from, but he has them in his possession.
[02:51:48]  And they were actually able to measure some of them that were in one of the Petrie, the Petrie Museum, Flinders Petrie.
[02:51:57]  And they did measurements of every single angle of these.
[02:52:03]  Dynastic Egyptian vases that were supposedly made with copper chisels in the Egyptian times.
[02:52:11]  And they found out through aerospace engineers at Rolls Royce who measured these things with laser machines.
[02:52:21]  They found out that these things were perfectly symmetrical within like one millionth of an inch, which is like less than the thickness of a human hair.
[02:52:32]  So, like today, To make something out of a granite vase, to make a vase that perfect out of granite would take a computer program.
[02:52:41]  You would need to model it on a computer to create it.
[02:52:44]  So, how the fuck were these created?
[02:52:48]  Ancient civilizations.
[02:52:50]  During, like, yeah, exactly.
[02:52:53]  So, his theory is that this must have been created before the flood, before everything was wiped out, that the human civilization was far more advanced than it is today.
[02:53:04]  Oh, certainly, in certain ways.
[02:53:05]  And there was a reset, it was not just a linear progression.
[02:53:08]  We were set back to the Stone Age.
[02:53:10]  Yeah, and we will again if we don't stop what we're doing to it now.
[02:53:15]  Yeah.

=== The Galbraith Story and Advanced Civilizations (02:14) ===

[02:53:16]  Tell us all, yeah, tell the audience where they can find your books, what they're called.
[02:53:21]  So you just go to Amazon.
[02:53:23]  That's the best place to get them.
[02:53:25]  The ones I'm going to show you today, I guess I would start with JFK in Vietnam.
[02:53:29]  This is the 2017 edition.
[02:53:31]  This is what you would definitely want to get.
[02:53:35]  And where, after all the stuff that happened to it, and then all my other things that I did since then, Where I worked with McNamara and other people you'll find interesting.
[02:53:49]  You worked with McNamara on that book?
[02:53:51]  Oh, yeah.
[02:53:54]  We worked together for quite a while.
[02:53:56]  He didn't want to at first.
[02:53:57]  He didn't want to talk to me, but eventually he did.
[02:54:01]  And that's all in there.
[02:54:03]  Wow.
[02:54:03]  And the Galbraith story, they got my rights back and lots of those things.
[02:54:07]  Countdown to Darkness is where you want to go when you find out how they tried to, you know.
[02:54:16]  pushed Kennedy to go into Cuba and all the lies they told and what happened bit by bit.
[02:54:25]  All the people who endorse these things on the back are fun to read as well.
[02:54:30]  Some of them on the inside more recently into the storm.
[02:54:35]  This will go as far as the Cuban Missile Crisis and Northwoods, but it stops there because I realized that there were things that I didn't understand that were weird.
[02:54:48]  So it's the first book that I didn't write a conclusion to.
[02:54:51]  I called it an intermission.
[02:54:54]  And so I thought it was going to be Armageddon next, but at the other end of the intermission ended up being this thing here, which is about spy wars.
[02:55:03]  And all of a sudden, we're in a new place with low hanging fruit, low hanging KGB fruit, all over the place.
[02:55:10]  Not just one piece of fruit, but I mean, hundreds and hundreds were still putting together how many of these moles they had.
[02:55:18]  And I'm working now on a sequel to this already called Uncovering Moscow's Moles because we have a lot more, including probably Moles that we had in Moscow.

=== Uncovering Moscow's Moles (00:28) ===

[02:55:31]  Yeah, James McCord as well.
[02:55:33]  He's in there too.
[02:55:37]  But anyway, there's a lot more coming.
[02:55:39]  But anyway, thank you for inviting me down again.
[02:55:43]  I enjoyed this trip.
[02:55:44]  I enjoyed the last one and I hope to have more.
[02:55:47]  Yes, sir.
[02:55:47]  In the future.
[02:55:48]  Yeah, we'll do the next one on MLK.
[02:55:50]  We'll do a full deep dive on that.
[02:55:52]  Yeah.
[02:55:52]  I'm looking forward to it.
[02:55:53]  I'm looking forward to it myself, yeah.
[02:55:54]  All right.
[02:55:54]  I'll link all the books below.
[02:55:56]  And thanks, everybody, for watching.
[02:55:58]  See you later.