Danny Jones Podcast - #178 - Insane True Story: The Fine Line Between Self Defense & Murder | Wade Williamson
Aired: 2023-03-20
Duration: 01:51:30


=== Myrtle Beach Club Days (03:39) ===

[00:00:08]  All right, Chip, thanks for coming, man.
[00:00:10]  I just got a call from Matt Cox yesterday.
[00:00:12]  He said he did a podcast with you and it was jaw dropping.
[00:00:17]  And then I had to have you on the show.
[00:00:18]  Yeah.
[00:00:19]  And I'm excited to talk to you.
[00:00:21]  Well, it's good to be here, man.
[00:00:22]  Yeah.
[00:00:23]  I've known Matt for a little while.
[00:00:24]  He actually came on my show.
[00:00:26]  And when everything that I'm going to disclose here got straightened out, I reached out to him and told him the story.
[00:00:32]  And he was like, bro, you got to come on.
[00:00:34]  And I was like, all right, well, let's set it up.
[00:00:35]  And his was actually the first show that I went on, and yours is now the second.
[00:00:40]  So nobody else got these stories.
[00:00:42]  So, what is your story?
[00:00:45]  Well, I guess to start off, you know, a little bit about my background is I grew up in a town called Darlington, South Carolina, which is not known for much, but the racetrack that it has there, a small town.
[00:00:59]  And I went to school for welding.
[00:01:02]  That's pretty much been my career, even till right now.
[00:01:04]  That's still what I'm doing now.
[00:01:06]  And I met my wife in, oh God, if she sees this, she'll kill me.
[00:01:12]  We've been together like 20 years.
[00:01:14]  So, we met at a little club that was there.
[00:01:17]  And it was a crazy happening because when she was in there the week before, this was like a club that everybody went to.
[00:01:24]  It had burnt down for a while.
[00:01:26]  So when it opened back up, everybody was excited to go to it.
[00:01:31]  And she actually went with a friend.
[00:01:33]  The friend couldn't get in because she forgot her ID.
[00:01:36]  So she just happened to strike up a conversation with a girl that I'd gone to school with.
[00:01:42]  So the following week, we're back out there again.
[00:01:44]  And I see her talking to the former classmate of mine.
[00:01:47]  So I go up and I'm like, who was that?
[00:01:49]  And she's like, Oh, that's a friend of mine named Felicia.
[00:01:51]  You know, I met her out here last week.
[00:01:53]  So I'm like, All right, you got to hook me up.
[00:01:55]  And so, you know, one thing led to another.
[00:01:57]  We started a relationship and, you know, got married.
[00:02:01]  And that kind of, we stayed in Darlington until 2010.
[00:02:04]  And then I worked for a company called Nucor Steel.
[00:02:07]  I'm not sure if you know that place or not, but it's one of the bigger steel companies there is, a Fortune 500 company.
[00:02:15]  And they had a plant in Columbia, South Carolina.
[00:02:19]  So I worked there for about seven and a half years.
[00:02:23]  And I was traveling.
[00:02:24]  There was about an hour and some change drive.
[00:02:27]  And so then we switched, and I was like, well, let's see about moving to Charleston.
[00:02:31]  And then we moved to Charleston in 2010.
[00:02:35]  And I guess to kind of lay the groundwork here, because these are like key components and everything that happened, was we went to Myrtle Beach.
[00:02:44]  I'm sure you're probably familiar with the Myrtle Beach area.
[00:02:46]  Oh, yeah.
[00:02:47]  Yeah.
[00:02:47]  You seen the eastbound and down?
[00:02:49]  Oh, yeah.
[00:02:49]  Yeah.
[00:02:49]  Danny McBride.
[00:02:50]  They just filmed a lot of that down there, a lot in Charleston, too.
[00:02:53]  Some of the struts.
[00:02:54]  Like strip club scenes were filmed in Charleston.
[00:02:56]  One of the best shows of all time.
[00:02:57]  Yeah, he's fucking great.
[00:02:59]  He does the Righteous Gemstones down there too.
[00:03:01]  That also is one of the greatest shows of all time.
[00:03:03]  That is incredible.
[00:03:04]  They bought out like a part of an old mall and turned it into like their student.
[00:03:08]  No shit, really.
[00:03:09]  Right there in Charleston.
[00:03:10]  Wow, that's amazing.
[00:03:11]  Yeah, so a lot of people say they see him, you know, out and about around there walking around.
[00:03:15]  He's pretty approachable too.
[00:03:16]  So that's cool.
[00:03:17]  Does he live there?
[00:03:18]  I don't think he lives there, but I know he may have a place there, but I don't think he's there like full time.
[00:03:24]  But it's not uncommon to see him around the area, especially when they're.
[00:03:28]  Shooting, but uh, you know, long story short, I come down to Charleston and then there's this big concert that they're having at Myrtle Beach called Carolina Country Music Fest.
[00:03:37]  This is the biggest one they had had in a while.
[00:03:40]  It was like supposed to be their version of Woodstock, so it's like three days of or four really because they added a Thursday show.

=== Wrecked Outside Charleston (02:07) ===

[00:03:47]  And so I go down there Thursday night, straight from work, it's basically just drinking and music that's all it was.
[00:03:54]  And a friend of mine comes down there Thursday and he's like, Man, you look terrible.
[00:03:58]  I'm like, Well, that's you know, I've had a pretty rough couple days.
[00:04:01]  And he was a former medic.
[00:04:03]  So he gives me an IV, like right, you know, straight into the arm.
[00:04:07]  And he, there's a picture, and I'll have to see if I can find it.
[00:04:10]  But I'm sitting there, I got the IV going in my arm.
[00:04:13]  I still got like a beer in my hand, and you can see like all the liquor bottles just lined up on the wall behind me.
[00:04:19]  I mean, it was a crazy weekend.
[00:04:21]  And then after it's over, I get back home, fry Monday.
[00:04:25]  I got back home Sunday evening.
[00:04:27]  I'm scheduled to go back to work Monday.
[00:04:28]  So I haven't even been home this whole entire time trying to get stuff straight.
[00:04:33]  Well, going to work, I get into a car accident.
[00:04:37]  Probably roll like it went off the side of the road, hit like an embankment where they were widening the road.
[00:04:43]  And I mean, this car flipped probably eight or nine times and it flips corner to corner.
[00:04:49]  So it's like a barrel roll.
[00:04:50]  And I was just like, I didn't think it was ever going to stop.
[00:04:53]  And the last thing I seen was a car up under me.
[00:04:56]  It landed like directly on the hood.
[00:04:58]  And I thought I killed somebody.
[00:05:00]  I thought they were on the road, you know, driving.
[00:05:03]  And so I'm trying to like brace myself.
[00:05:05]  So when I undo the seatbelt, I don't fall on my head.
[00:05:08]  When doing that, the car falls off and then rolls to the right.
[00:05:12]  So now it's sitting on the passenger door.
[00:05:14]  So I still kind of brace myself, climb out, and this car comes riding by and he's like, Damn, dude, are you all right?
[00:05:21]  And I'm like, Yeah, I think so.
[00:05:23]  So he calls, he's like, You want me to call the ambulance?
[00:05:25]  I'm like, Yeah, might as well make sure I'm, you know, okay.
[00:05:29]  So I hop down, I kind of look at where I'm at, you know, to hop down so the car doesn't roll on me then.
[00:05:35]  And I walk up to the door where the guy's house was at and he opens the door and he's like, You know, it was early, it was like 5 30.
[00:05:42]  And he's like, you know, yeah, can I help you?
[00:05:45]  And I was like, man, I just had a wreck outside.
[00:05:47]  I just landed on top of your S10 out here.
[00:05:49]  And he's like, oh, damn, that's my wife's truck.
[00:05:52]  You know, she's had that thing since high school.

=== Taking Time Apart (04:52) ===

[00:05:55]  I'm like, well, you know, sorry, but it's over with now.
[00:05:59]  Well, that story kind of circles into after that, I had real bad back issues like my L4, L5, L5, and S1 were just really, really bad shape.
[00:06:10]  So that comes in key to what we're going to talk about now.
[00:06:14]  So, you fast forward to 2016, 2017, 2017.
[00:06:21]  I got a friend of mine in my neighborhood that I had only recently met him.
[00:06:25]  I'd probably known him just a couple months, but he actually committed suicide.
[00:06:31]  And unfortunately, me and another friend of mine were in the house, like a couple doors down, and we heard his wife at the time come out screaming.
[00:06:40]  Now, we didn't know it was them because I was actually with them earlier that night at a Mexican restaurant.
[00:06:47]  So, We go running down there to see what's going on.
[00:06:50]  I realize it's them because I literally just left him like 30 minutes ago.
[00:06:54]  My buddy ran straight into the house.
[00:06:56]  I don't know what prompted him to go straight into the house, but he did.
[00:06:59]  And then when I come in there, it was just a really bad thing.
[00:07:02]  It was like it's hands down the worst thing I've ever seen in my life.
[00:07:05]  Blood, he had shot himself in the head and it was just awful.
[00:07:10]  I mean, and those images just like haunted me.
[00:07:13]  And that kind of started like a just a real kind of depression, really, between that.
[00:07:19]  When I was out with the wreck.
[00:07:21]  I didn't lose my job, but I lost my position.
[00:07:24]  So when I got back, I had to go to a different area of the same company, but it was a different area and I didn't like that job as much.
[00:07:30]  So it was just kind of like a snowball effect.
[00:07:32]  And then that led to me and my wife actually taking some time apart.
[00:07:36]  Well, when we decided we were going to split up, I was like, okay, well, you can stay at the house.
[00:07:42]  I'll move out.
[00:07:42]  But if you decide to meet somebody, then, you know, I'm coming back because I can't pay the bills and have another dude up in there on my couch watching, you know, football.
[00:07:52]  And so that's kind of what happened.
[00:07:53]  I mean, my wife's an attractive woman.
[00:07:55]  She's very smart.
[00:07:56]  She's got her doctorate.
[00:07:57]  I mean, you know, I knew that if it came down to it and she started searching, then she would find somebody.
[00:08:02]  It was this, you know, what was going to happen?
[00:08:05]  And that happened.
[00:08:06]  So in November of that year, she moved out and I moved back in.
[00:08:12]  And at that point, we were both kind of dead set on a divorce.
[00:08:16]  We were going to go have it done.
[00:08:19]  I was actually going to use the divorce to pull out some money out of my 401k because when you get a divorce, you can give them a portion of the 401k.
[00:08:27]  So what I was going to do is actually get more than what I was going to give her.
[00:08:32]  And then she was just going to give it back to me.
[00:08:34]  So, I think the agreement we made, it was going to be like $60,000 or $70,000.
[00:08:38]  I was going to pull out like $80,000 and, you know, get the extra on top of it.
[00:08:43]  So, you guys were friendly at least.
[00:08:45]  Yeah.
[00:08:46]  We weren't like the best of friends, but it was, you know, it was amicable.
[00:08:51]  I mean, I knew I was going to give her something out of it because we had been, you know, in this relationship for a lot of times.
[00:08:57]  And, you know, we had had our issues in the past, but we always seemed to come out on the other side.
[00:09:01]  But this was just at a point in time where we were just steady arguing and we needed a break.
[00:09:07]  We definitely needed the break.
[00:09:09]  And so we go forward with the divorce, and it's probably like January or December.
[00:09:15]  We're trying to figure out what we're going to do with the kids because we're not really talking at this point.
[00:09:19]  And, you know, in doing that, we're kind of like, you know, hey, how's things going with you?
[00:09:23]  How's things going on your side?
[00:09:25]  And, you know, I'm like, well, you know, it is what it is.
[00:09:27]  I'm not seeing anyone.
[00:09:28]  She's like, well, things aren't great here.
[00:09:30]  And that kind of prompted us to start talking again.
[00:09:34]  And off and on, we kind of talked sporadically for the next few months.
[00:09:38]  Now, the guy that she was living with, she had moved out into another house in my same neighborhood.
[00:09:43]  So it's kind of like, you know, I'm sure it's like up here, some of the places I've seen.
[00:09:46]  You've got one big community, but about nine different subdivisions in that community.
[00:09:51]  That's kind of how ours is set up.
[00:09:53]  So they were in another subdivision, but same community.
[00:09:56]  And he had actually left the house.
[00:09:58]  So he wasn't living there at the time.
[00:10:01]  And around Easter, we're like, okay, I think we're going to give it another shot.
[00:10:05]  Like we had both kind of, you know, realized that the time apart was, you know, we did what we needed.
[00:10:11]  You know, it was time to give it another shot.
[00:10:12]  And we were really serious about it.
[00:10:14]  And we went to our mom's, spent Easter.
[00:10:18]  And, you know, we were just like, we told her family, this is what's going to happen.
[00:10:21]  So when we come back, we come back on Friday night, and I was just like, all right, well, I'll get everything moved back in, but you got to tell, you know, the guy, he's, you know, this is it.
[00:10:31]  There's no need.
[00:10:31]  He can't come back around because they wouldn't, they hadn't officially cut it off, but they weren't like on the best of terms either.
[00:10:38]  And so when she told him this that night, I thought she was going to tell him Friday night.
[00:10:43]  Saturday, we go to my son's ball game or soccer game Saturday morning.

=== Breathing Through Upset (14:56) ===

[00:10:47]  I'm like, well, how'd he take it?
[00:10:49]  She said, he came in and went straight to bed.
[00:10:50]  I didn't get a chance to tell him.
[00:10:51]  I'm going to tell him today.
[00:10:53]  I said, all right.
[00:10:54]  Well, unbeknownst to me, after she told him, he roughed her up, broke her phone.
[00:11:01]  So I had no way to get in contact with her, smashed a lot of stuff in the house, and a lot of shit was going on that I wasn't aware of because she wasn't able to contact me.
[00:11:10]  I knew she was giving him the news, but I didn't know all this stuff was taking place.
[00:11:14]  So the same guy that I spoke about earlier, who went into that house with me when my friend had committed suicide, he actually was outside in his garage.
[00:11:24]  And they were coming by.
[00:11:26]  And so he walks out and was like, Hey, you know, what's going on?
[00:11:29]  And he said, Well, nothing much.
[00:11:30]  He said, We're looking for Chip because when I find him, I'm going to fucking kill him.
[00:11:35]  And I didn't, again, I didn't know this at the time.
[00:11:37]  This was even told to the cops later that verbatim that that's what he said.
[00:11:41]  So when he knew that something was up, he was able to get the guy to stay there and talk to him and try to figure out what was going on.
[00:11:49]  Well, at some point, he was able to call me and he knew that I wasn't home because that's, he was making, My wife drove around and looked for me.
[00:11:58]  I wasn't home, I was at somewhere else.
[00:12:00]  So, when he told me, he was like, Hey, if you ride by the house and you see his car here, you know, don't stop.
[00:12:06]  Your buddy told you that?
[00:12:07]  Yeah.
[00:12:08]  And at that time, the guy, you know, that's getting the axe was over there.
[00:12:12]  His name was Liam.
[00:12:13]  And so he's like, If you see his car here, don't stop.
[00:12:15]  He's like, I don't know what's going on, but he was pretty upset.
[00:12:18]  He said he was looking for you.
[00:12:20]  He said, But I'm trying to defuse it.
[00:12:22]  He's like, So I was just letting you know, if you ride by, don't like stop because I don't need anything going down, you know, here in my house.
[00:12:26]  I'm like, That's fine.
[00:12:27]  I was like, I said, I'm not the one with the problem.
[00:12:29]  You know, he is.
[00:12:30]  I know what's going on.
[00:12:32]  And he didn't know that we were officially getting back together, but I knew probably why he was upset.
[00:12:37]  So I'm at my house and like I'm watching a UFC.
[00:12:40]  I think it was like one of the Conor McGregor fights or something like that.
[00:12:43]  And I get a text from my phone and it's him.
[00:12:47]  It's the guy.
[00:12:47]  This is later that night?
[00:12:49]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:50]  This right now is probably like 12 31 in the morning.
[00:12:52]  Okay.
[00:12:53]  And I get the text from him and he's like, hey, you know, can me and you talk?
[00:12:57]  Or no, at first he said, are you awake?
[00:12:59]  And I was like, yeah, I'm awake.
[00:13:00]  And he's like, can me and you talk?
[00:13:01]  And I'm like, you know, about what he texted you from your wife's phone?
[00:13:05]  No, his phone.
[00:13:06]  Okay.
[00:13:06]  His own personal phone.
[00:13:07]  Because he had smashed my wife's phone.
[00:13:10]  And he was like, can me and you talk?
[00:13:11]  And I'm like, yeah.
[00:13:12]  And he's like, well, you know, look, I don't want no drama.
[00:13:15]  I don't want no bullshit.
[00:13:16]  I don't want to fight.
[00:13:17]  He's like, if you're comfortable, we can meet at Jamie's house.
[00:13:19]  Jamie was the guy that, you know, I've been speaking about that was in a lot of these situations.
[00:13:24]  And I said, yeah, that's fine with me.
[00:13:27]  So around the same time, my daughter actually called me because she had gotten off of work and got home.
[00:13:33]  And my wife was using her phone and she was like, Hey, I told him he got really mad, but he left and he's at Jamie's right now.
[00:13:39]  And I said, Yeah, I know.
[00:13:40]  He just texted me and asked me if I would come over there and talk to him.
[00:13:42]  And she's like, Well, are you going to go?
[00:13:44]  And I was like, Well, he just wants to talk.
[00:13:46]  And she's like, Well, I don't know if I would go, but he is a little upset.
[00:13:49]  But she said, I know you can probably handle it.
[00:13:52]  And I was like, All right.
[00:13:53]  Because I'm good at talking and diffusing situations.
[00:13:56]  I've never been like a violent guy.
[00:13:58]  I can usually talk people down.
[00:14:00]  And so I go over there.
[00:14:02]  And that was exactly what it was.
[00:14:03]  He was more or less wanting to know.
[00:14:06]  Had we been seeing each other prior to her telling him that it was over, and I was like well, to start with really, that's my wife, it's not really any of your business.
[00:14:15]  But to answer your question no, because I don't want to get him upset and him go back over there angry.
[00:14:21]  So a little bit time goes by.
[00:14:23]  I mean it was heated a little bit at first at times, but by the end of the conversation in the garage it was really just like three dudes hanging out in the garage, but just with odd circumstances being what they were, and so it's probably, I'd say 3 30, 4 o'clock at this time.
[00:14:41]  And Jamie, whose house we're at, we're at his house.
[00:14:43]  He's like, Man, I'm fixing to shut it down.
[00:14:45]  He's like, You know, if you want to stay here, you can stay here.
[00:14:48]  He's like, Or you can have Chip run you home.
[00:14:50]  And he said, Well, if you don't mind, he said, Will you run me to the house?
[00:14:52]  And I said, Yeah.
[00:14:54]  So we leave.
[00:14:55]  And then, as we're getting in the car, he says, You know, I don't know if I want to go home.
[00:14:58]  He said, I know we're going to argue.
[00:15:00]  And he's like, Do you care if we just go to your house?
[00:15:02]  He said, I'm just not really ready to go home yet.
[00:15:04]  And I was a little hesitant, but he started talking and telling me this story.
[00:15:08]  And I don't know if he was trying to match the suicide story that.
[00:15:12]  Had came up in the garage, the one I told you about earlier.
[00:15:16]  But he started telling me about this guy he was in the service with because he was former military and they were in combat together.
[00:15:22]  The guy got shot in the head and he was trying to hold his head together.
[00:15:26]  But something about the army said he didn't do something right, didn't follow protocol.
[00:15:30]  So he was discharged.
[00:15:32]  And that's why he wore this specific bracelet on his wrist.
[00:15:35]  Was he a Marine or was he Army?
[00:15:37]  I'm pretty sure he was Army.
[00:15:38]  I'm pretty sure he was Army.
[00:15:40]  But the thing was, I didn't find this out till later, was that whole story was fabricated.
[00:15:43]  He was actually intelligence.
[00:15:46]  And he told the guy bad intel that led him into somewhere that resulted in that guy getting shot.
[00:15:54]  He was intelligence?
[00:15:55]  He was intelligence.
[00:15:56]  He wasn't like in the field.
[00:15:59]  He made the story he told me was like he was in the field when it happened with him, like right there, hands on.
[00:16:05]  But the real story, after you know, this was over, I found it out, you know, a couple days later, he was intelligence and he gave the guy bad intel that led him to getting shot.
[00:16:14]  So, either way, I'm sure it probably did still mess him up because he was genuinely upset about it.
[00:16:19]  Like he was crying sitting in my car, like you know, straight up tears.
[00:16:23]  So, I could tell it was bothering him.
[00:16:25]  I didn't know at the time whether the story was true or not, but I could tell it was bothering him.
[00:16:30]  So, at this point, I just think this dude's just like.
[00:16:32]  You know, maybe he's battling through that.
[00:16:34]  He is getting the boot.
[00:16:35]  You know, so he was in an intelligence branch of the army or like, like someone that would just be, you know, telling somebody, All right, go here, go there, probably off to the side, working on a computer.
[00:16:45]  Yeah, yeah, just like working on a computer, right?
[00:16:47]  Not actually in combat, somebody more or less behind the scenes.
[00:16:50]  Okay.
[00:16:52]  So, you know, like I said, he's crying, and I'm thinking this dude just really just needs someone to talk to.
[00:16:57]  It's not really nothing, you know, concerning.
[00:17:00]  I never at any point in time felt threatened at all.
[00:17:04]  So we go in my house and we've got cameras and stuff in my house.
[00:17:06]  So it's seen us coming in and we're in there for probably another hour or two.
[00:17:11]  And we're talking about different things.
[00:17:12]  We got on the subject of tattoos.
[00:17:14]  And he was talking about, I've got a 13 year old son.
[00:17:18]  He was like eight or nine at the time, but he was talking about one of his buddy's moms saying something about tattoos.
[00:17:25]  And he's like, Has she ever said anything to you?
[00:17:27]  And I'm like, No, I'm covered in them.
[00:17:29]  So I kind of like pulled down my shirt to show him this one.
[00:17:32]  And you can see, and I don't know if you can see it right here, but there's a scar there where I had open heart surgery.
[00:17:37]  Oh, damn.
[00:17:38]  Yeah.
[00:17:38]  And I had that in 2001, my senior year in high school.
[00:17:41]  How old are you?
[00:17:42]  39.
[00:17:43]  You're 39 right now?
[00:17:43]  Yeah.
[00:17:44]  You had it when you were a senior in high school?
[00:17:46]  Yeah.
[00:17:46]  I had what's called a VSD, which is basically like a real minute hole in the heart.
[00:17:52]  They knew about it from birth and it never affected me.
[00:17:55]  Like I played sports, you know, drank beer in high school, you know, like everybody else and all that.
[00:18:01]  But once I was at the point where I was getting it checked every four years and I went to get it checked and they're like, ooh, I'm like, well, that's something you don't want to hear when they're looking at your heart.
[00:18:12]  He's like, actually, what it was was the hole was bigger than they thought.
[00:18:17]  Somehow or another, a flap had gotten sucked over the hole.
[00:18:20]  So, what they were seeing was a small portion of what was actually a bigger size hole.
[00:18:25]  And he said, I'm not even saying that this is like, you know, something major, but he's like, it's better to repair it now while you're young than later when you're older.
[00:18:33]  Plus, when you're older, you're going to have to pay for it.
[00:18:35]  You know, right now, your mom will pay for it.
[00:18:36]  And so, we made the decision to go ahead and have it done.
[00:18:39]  And, you know, that scar has been there.
[00:18:40]  And when he seen that scar, He was like, damn, you know, what happened there?
[00:18:45]  He kind of pulled down a shirt, and I told him the story, same story I just told you.
[00:18:48]  So he pulls up my shirt from the bottom, like up to see it going all the way down.
[00:18:54]  And in doing this, he had to see the gun because I was a CWP carrier.
[00:18:59]  I'd had my CWP for probably a couple of years at that time.
[00:19:03]  The weapon that I had on me that night was my carry weapon.
[00:19:06]  I'd been pulled over that weapon numerous times.
[00:19:08]  The numbers run.
[00:19:09]  So there was documentation that that was the gun that I would use as my carry weapon.
[00:19:14]  What kind of gun was it?
[00:19:15]  It was a Smith Wesson 9mm.
[00:19:16]  Okay.
[00:19:18]  And so he had to see it.
[00:19:20]  I don't really see there's any way he couldn't have seen it, you know, right there on the hip.
[00:19:24]  But when he sees that scar, he's like, you know, man, you know what?
[00:19:27]  And you know how guys, when they've had a little too much to drink, they do like the bro hug or whatever, where they bear hug you and kind of pick you up off the ground.
[00:19:34]  So he did that.
[00:19:35]  And I didn't really think too much of it at the time.
[00:19:38]  I just, you know, I didn't really know how he was with alcohol.
[00:19:41]  I knew he'd had some drinks at the other garage and we had had a few shots at my house.
[00:19:45]  So I just thought he was getting, you know, to that point.
[00:19:48]  Well, then he goes.
[00:19:49]  He's like, Where's your bathroom?
[00:19:50]  Showing the bathroom.
[00:19:51]  He goes to the bathroom.
[00:19:52]  And the way my kitchen is set up, so you got a hallway here.
[00:19:55]  Then when you come out, you got a refrigerator.
[00:19:57]  Then it immediately curves.
[00:19:58]  You got a stove, then back this way and you got a sink.
[00:20:01]  So it's pretty small.
[00:20:02]  It's like eight foot wide at the most.
[00:20:05]  I'm up against the stove when he's in the bathroom.
[00:20:09]  And this time I'm actually texting my daughter's phone, telling her like, Hey, everything's good.
[00:20:13]  Let your mom know not to worry.
[00:20:15]  And when he comes out of the bathroom, he goes straight up to me, hand up under my throat, jacks me up onto the stove.
[00:20:22]  And like, you know how people say like, you know, they had that look in their eye, like he had that look in his eye.
[00:20:28]  And how big is this dude?
[00:20:29]  He's pretty big, like he's he was a jacked up dude.
[00:20:33]  How tall would you say?
[00:20:34]  I'd probably say he was six foot one, maybe probably like 240, 250.
[00:20:40]  Okay, I mean, he was a big boy, not that big.
[00:20:43]  Uh, I'm probably 5'10 at the most.
[00:20:47]  Um, you know, weight might be the same, but for different reasons.
[00:20:49]  And uh, and and two, we'll get into this too, but at the time he was also on steroids, we figured that out later on.
[00:20:58]  Um, So, when he jacks me up, he immediately says, He's like, I'm going to fucking kill you.
[00:21:03]  And I'm just like, it caught me off guard because, like, other than like the bipolar.
[00:21:07]  Yeah, it was that was exactly what it was.
[00:21:09]  And like, looking back in retrospect, I'm thinking maybe he done that little pickup thing to see if he could handle me.
[00:21:16]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:21:17]  See if he could pick me up, maybe, you know, swing me around if he needed to.
[00:21:21]  I'm thinking maybe that was like what he done to psychologically try to set all this up.
[00:21:25]  Maybe, maybe not.
[00:21:26]  I don't know.
[00:21:27]  That's just me looking back.
[00:21:28]  But when he does this, It's really catching me off guard.
[00:21:32]  So I'm just like, what the fuck?
[00:21:33]  You know, it's really, you know, blowing my mind.
[00:21:36]  And I'm telling him, I'm like, dude, if you don't get the fuck off me, I'm going to shoot you.
[00:21:39]  And so I was able to scoot my way down off the stove.
[00:21:42]  And then he kind of brings up his knee like he's going to knee me in the side.
[00:21:46]  Well, I scoot my body to the side.
[00:21:47]  He still hits me a little bit.
[00:21:49]  And then he swings with his right arm.
[00:21:51]  Well, when he swings, I can see it coming.
[00:21:53]  He's got me, he's holding me with his left.
[00:21:55]  I was able to lift my chin up just a little bit to where it kind of clipped the bottom of my chin.
[00:22:01]  Well, when he does that, his force bringing him this way, he let go with the left hand.
[00:22:05]  So we're right here.
[00:22:06]  Like I told you, I stepped back.
[00:22:08]  I'm literally in the corner and I pulled out my weapon and I fired.
[00:22:12]  And I thought at the time it was two shots, it turned out to actually be three.
[00:22:17]  Immediately after I fired, he dropped to the floor.
[00:22:21]  So I'm just sitting there, like, you know, adrenaline's fucking pumping.
[00:22:24]  I'm like, holy shit.
[00:22:26]  So I pick up the phone, I call 911, tell him what happened.
[00:22:31]  Brooklyn County 911.
[00:22:32]  I have an emergency at 7 Decatur Drive.
[00:22:36]  7 Decatur, what's going on?
[00:22:38]  I had a friend of mine in my house.
[00:22:40]  He came at me.
[00:22:41]  He was striking me.
[00:22:43]  I had to shoot him.
[00:22:45]  He is down.
[00:22:47]  He needs to send some ambulance right now.
[00:22:49]  Yes, yes, ma'am.
[00:22:50]  How old is he?
[00:22:52]  He's 35, I believe.
[00:22:56]  Where did you shoot him?
[00:22:59]  I'm not really sure.
[00:23:00]  He came at me, hit me in the face, and I shot him in the chest two times.
[00:23:06]  Okay, is he breathing?
[00:23:06]  Right now he's breathing.
[00:23:09]  Right now he's breathing.
[00:23:12]  Are you okay?
[00:23:14]  They're saying, you know, is he breathing?
[00:23:16]  I'm like, he's, you know, he's making noises.
[00:23:18]  I don't really know if he's breathing.
[00:23:19]  I can't really tell.
[00:23:21]  And she's like, you know, can you see the wounds?
[00:23:23]  And I'm like, well, they're in his chest.
[00:23:24]  Every one of them was center mass, like all in the chest area.
[00:23:27]  There was nothing anywhere else.
[00:23:30]  And that was what they taught you in the CWP class, too.
[00:23:32]  It's like, you know, when the threat is eliminated, then, you know, you have to stop.
[00:23:36]  Legally, because then there's no threat anymore.
[00:23:38]  You can't like go up and keep shooting someone if they're on the ground.
[00:23:41]  Then that changes from self defense to murder.
[00:23:43]  Unless you're Grady Judd.
[00:23:45]  Yes, yes.
[00:23:46]  Are you familiar with that guy?
[00:23:47]  I've heard that story.
[00:23:48]  Yeah.
[00:23:49]  Yo, after all this happened, believe me, anybody that had any sort of self defense or any kind of shooting claims like that, I researched the shit out of everybody because of what eventually comes to happen here.
[00:23:59]  But so I called the 911 operator and she's like, you know, can you get to a towel?
[00:24:02]  And I'm like, yeah.
[00:24:03]  Have you got somebody on the way?
[00:24:05]  Liam.
[00:24:06]  Liam, can you hear me?
[00:24:08]  Liam.
[00:24:08]  Liam, can you hear me?
[00:24:10]  Liam.
[00:24:11]  Liam.
[00:24:12]  Liam, can you hear me?
[00:24:14]  Liam.
[00:24:16]  I shot him two times in a chair.
[00:24:18]  He came after me.
[00:24:19]  He was trying to hit me.
[00:24:20]  He was trying to hurt me.
[00:24:22]  I didn't have any choice.
[00:24:23]  But to fucking shoot him.
[00:24:26]  Rick, can you get a clean towel and apply pressure?
[00:24:32]  A clean towel?
[00:24:32]  Yes, ma'am.
[00:24:33]  Yes, ma'am, I can.
[00:24:36]  I'm sorry, I did not want to do this shit.
[00:24:38]  He called after me, goddammit.
[00:24:41]  Is there anybody else in the house?
[00:24:43]  No, ma'am.
[00:24:44]  It's just me and him.
[00:24:45]  We've been here for a couple of hours.
[00:24:48]  How long ago did you just shoot him?
[00:24:50]  Yes, I just did it.
[00:24:52]  Okay.
[00:24:54]  Okay, where is the gun right now?
[00:24:56]  It's sitting on the counter.
[00:25:00]  Okay, can you secure the gun?
[00:25:04]  Yes, ma'am.
[00:25:04]  It's secured.
[00:25:05]  It's unloaded.
[00:25:07]  And she said, So, you know, get to the towel, put a towel over the wound.
[00:25:10]  She said, We got an officer on the way.
[00:25:13]  So I pull up the shirt and I only see two entrance wounds, which is why I thought, again, initially I only heard two shots, but I guess just everything, you know, real quick, I just didn't hear the third one, but I only seen two entrance wounds.
[00:25:25]  So that's why I only thought there was two.
[00:25:27]  I put the towel over him.
[00:25:29]  I'm waiting.
[00:25:29]  There's a 911 call.
[00:25:30]  Is he still alive?
[00:25:31]  No.
[00:25:32]  Okay.
[00:25:32]  Well, I mean, not now.
[00:25:34]  At the time, he was breathing.
[00:25:37]  He was making noises.
[00:25:38]  Now, I don't know.
[00:25:39]  I've heard people say that the noise was like what's constituted as like a death rattle.

=== Assessing The Crime Scene (09:25) ===

[00:25:44]  When the officers get there, they're going to need you to come outside with your hands up, okay?
[00:25:49]  Okay.
[00:25:50]  That's fine.
[00:25:51]  What's he doing right now?
[00:25:52]  Is he still breathing okay?
[00:25:53]  Right now, he's not breathing.
[00:25:56]  You said he's not breathing?
[00:25:58]  He doesn't look like it.
[00:25:59]  His.
[00:26:00]  He's not breathing up and down.
[00:26:03]  Okay, can you get your face close to his and see if he is breathing?
[00:26:06]  See if you can see him.
[00:26:07]  I'm right here.
[00:26:09]  He's making noises.
[00:26:10]  He's making noises.
[00:26:12]  He is still talking?
[00:26:14]  No, he's not talking.
[00:26:15]  He's just making noises.
[00:26:17]  Liam, Liam, can you hear me, Liam?
[00:26:20]  Liam, can you hear me?
[00:26:22]  Liam, can you hear me?
[00:26:23]  Liam, Liam, Liam, Liam, can you hear me, Liam?
[00:26:28]  He's making noises, but he's not responsive.
[00:26:31]  Okay.
[00:26:32]  Like gurgling?
[00:26:33]  Yeah.
[00:26:33]  Yeah, something along those lines.
[00:26:36]  But, you know, I'm waiting for the guy to get there.
[00:26:39]  He comes in, and a 911 person is like, you know, make sure the gun is unloaded and, you know, away from you.
[00:26:46]  And when you get there, unlock the door.
[00:26:47]  I'm like, well, the door's unlocked.
[00:26:48]  Now you can just come right on in whenever they're here.
[00:26:51]  Okay, our officer is there.
[00:26:52]  Can you step outside with your hands up?
[00:26:54]  Yes, ma'am.
[00:26:54]  I can step outside.
[00:26:55]  Okay.
[00:26:56]  Go ahead and do that.
[00:26:57]  Just put the phone down.
[00:26:59]  All right.
[00:27:00]  I mean, my phone's in my ear, but I'll step outside with my hands up.
[00:27:03]  All right, go ahead.
[00:27:09]  I'm outside with my hands up.
[00:27:12]  He's in the kitchen.
[00:27:13]  He's in the kitchen.
[00:27:15]  So he comes in and he's like, All right, I got to place you and I'm going to put you in handcuffs.
[00:27:20]  He's not placing you under arrest.
[00:27:21]  He said, But I've just got to assess the situation.
[00:27:24]  So he puts me in cuffs.
[00:27:25]  And about that time, another car is coming up.
[00:27:27]  So they put me in the back of that car.
[00:27:29]  Never read me real right, Chad, or anything.
[00:27:30]  They just put me in the car.
[00:27:32]  So they go in the house.
[00:27:33]  And at this point, I don't know what's going on.
[00:27:35]  That's a.
[00:27:36]  I'd say probably like 6, 6 30 in the morning at this time, give or take.
[00:27:41]  And cars are just starting to line the block.
[00:27:43]  Cop cars, ambulances, like the big SUV vehicles from fire departments, everything.
[00:27:52]  And I mean, like everybody's blinds are just opening, looking out.
[00:27:55]  Cause I mean, houses are just like side by side.
[00:27:57]  People are waking up for work.
[00:27:58]  Yeah.
[00:27:58]  Well, this was a Sunday morning, but you know, people are going to church too, still.
[00:28:02]  And you know, they're riding by, they're seeing me in the car.
[00:28:05]  And obviously, they're trying to talk to me.
[00:28:06]  And I can't really, you know, I can't say anything.
[00:28:08]  I'm in the back of the car.
[00:28:09]  My neighbor comes out the house and she's like, I look and she's like at the window and she's like, what happened?
[00:28:14]  And I'm trying to tell her.
[00:28:15]  And some cop like made her go away.
[00:28:18]  And so I'm sitting there.
[00:28:19]  It was probably a couple hours.
[00:28:21]  I mean, it felt like forever.
[00:28:23]  And I still don't know what's going on.
[00:28:24]  I see them bring him out, put him in the ambulance.
[00:28:26]  The ambulance leaves.
[00:28:28]  And then this lady cop comes over and she, at that time, does read me my rights.
[00:28:32]  And she's like, you know, do you understand these rights?
[00:28:34]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:35]  She's like, do you want to answer any questions?
[00:28:36]  I was like, no, not without a lawyer.
[00:28:39]  And so then she goes away.
[00:28:40]  Well, I don't hear anything else from anybody.
[00:28:42]  And there's still just a shitload of cops in the yard.
[00:28:46]  So finally, I motioned to one of them.
[00:28:47]  I was like, dude, I got to use the bathroom.
[00:28:49]  And he's like, well, you're going to have to hold it.
[00:28:50]  And I'm like, no, that's not an option.
[00:28:52]  Like, I'm going to either go in this car or I can go in the yard or we can go in the house like one or the other is about to happen.
[00:28:59]  So they let me out and we go in the house and he's like, This is your home?
[00:29:02]  I was like, Yeah, this is my house.
[00:29:04]  And he said, Well, let's go upstairs where you can do a change of clothes.
[00:29:06]  We need to take the clothes you have on.
[00:29:09]  Okay.
[00:29:09]  So we go upstairs.
[00:29:10]  I use the bathroom.
[00:29:11]  I give him all my clothes.
[00:29:12]  And he said, Is there somewhere you can go while we finish doing our investigation?
[00:29:17]  I said, Yeah, I can go around the corner to not the guy that was involved in all this because he had just gone to bed, but another guy.
[00:29:23]  At this point, he's driven his golf cart over there, is like sitting out in the yard because he heard about everything that was going on.
[00:29:28]  I said, I can go to his house and I gave him the address.
[00:29:31]  So they just read you your rights and had you in the back of the car.
[00:29:33]  They were going to let you go to someone's house?
[00:29:35]  Yeah.
[00:29:35]  They read me my rights and said I was under arrest.
[00:29:38]  But then when they let me in the house and I changed my clothes, they took all my clothes, put it in a bag, and then said I wasn't being arrested.
[00:29:45]  And then was there somewhere I could go till they finished their investigation?
[00:29:47]  So at this point, had you explained to anybody about what happened in the house?
[00:29:52]  I mean, not as in detail.
[00:29:53]  I just told him that we were in the house and he fucking attacked me and, you know, was hitting me and I. Shot him.
[00:29:58]  Okay.
[00:29:58]  And one of the biggest reasons, like obviously, one thing was like, well, why didn't you fight back or whatever?
[00:30:02]  Well, number two, this guy was a fuckload bigger than me.
[00:30:05]  But number two, I just had a surgery.
[00:30:08]  Remember that the issue I told you about the back, the back story and the suicide stories all were kind of key components in this.
[00:30:14]  I had had a surgery on my back, not like a major surgery, but where they go and burn the nerve endings away from the spine.
[00:30:21]  And what that does is it gives you a little relief when you have a physical job like mine.
[00:30:26]  But afterwards, like immediately after, for the first couple of days, it hurts like hell.
[00:30:30]  And, but they eventually grow back and then you have to get it done again.
[00:30:34]  It's kind of a continuous process.
[00:30:36]  Well, this was only a few days after having this done.
[00:30:38]  So my mobility was limited at best anyway.
[00:30:42]  So that's another reason why it was, you know, the situation happened.
[00:30:45]  But I'm at the guy's house.
[00:30:47]  I'm hanging out.
[00:30:48]  Still don't know what, you know, I'm thinking, well, maybe I'm not going to get arrested.
[00:30:51]  I didn't know.
[00:30:52]  I'm in my mind, I'm thinking I've done nothing wrong.
[00:30:54]  Like I've done nothing to justify arresting me.
[00:30:56]  I'm in my house.
[00:30:57]  You know, I was using my personal gun, like my carry gun.
[00:31:02]  And he fucking attacked me and said he was gonna kill me.
[00:31:04]  Cause, like, you know, men, we have that bravado thing or whatever.
[00:31:08]  You might take somebody something, you might even say something.
[00:31:10]  But when you put hands on someone, that's a different story.
[00:31:15]  And, you know, when you look a man in the eye and tell him you're gonna kill him, I didn't know this guy.
[00:31:18]  I didn't know him to be a liar.
[00:31:20]  So I've got to take him at his word.
[00:31:21]  And when he said that, at that point, I knew one of us probably wasn't gonna make it out of that kitchen.
[00:31:26]  And, you know, it was unfortunate.
[00:31:29]  But to me, looking at it was, I never looked at it as I killed somebody, I looked at it as I survived.
[00:31:34]  I survived trying to be killed.
[00:31:36]  That's always how I've looked at it.
[00:31:37]  That's how I look at it today.
[00:31:39]  And when the detective came to that house, after, you know, I guess they had finished doing whatever they were doing, he asked me, he said, Well, you know, can you come in and answer some questions?
[00:31:48]  I said, I already told that other officer, like, I'm not coming in, you know, without talking to a lawyer.
[00:31:53]  And he said, Well, who's your lawyer?
[00:31:54]  Well, at the time, I didn't really know any lawyers because I'd never really been in any trouble before.
[00:31:59]  So I told him my divorce lawyer, who was actually a former cop.
[00:32:03]  He was a cop for a while, then he actually went and became an attorney.
[00:32:06]  So he knew him.
[00:32:07]  And he's like, Well, I know him.
[00:32:08]  He's like, I'll give him a call.
[00:32:09]  Tomorrow morning, he's like, We'll set up a time to have you come in and answer some questions.
[00:32:13]  And I'm like, All right.
[00:32:13]  I was like, I'm free to go back home.
[00:32:15]  And he said, Yeah, you can go back home.
[00:32:17]  And I was like, Well, you know, is there any mess?
[00:32:19]  You know, what do I need to do about that?
[00:32:20]  And he said, Well, that's not our problem.
[00:32:22]  He said, That's on you, which is actually true.
[00:32:24]  The way he said it was kind of fucked up, but that's actually true.
[00:32:29]  The police don't have anything to do with a mess.
[00:32:30]  So whether it's a murder, suicide, whatever the case may be, after they do their police investigation, they don't handle anything as far as cleanup.
[00:32:38]  You have to hire somebody to do that.
[00:32:39]  You have to hire like crime scene cleanup.
[00:32:41]  It don't necessarily need to be crime scene cleanup because the crime scene stuff's done, but if you know, just deep clean cleaners that'll come in and do it.
[00:32:48]  However, in this case, it really wasn't a lot to it because when I got back home by this time, my mom had already been notified.
[00:32:56]  She lived like two hours away, so she had already come down there.
[00:33:01]  She was there when actually I left to go to the other friend's house.
[00:33:04]  So we went back together and she came in and I went to where it happened, and there's literally like no blood at all.
[00:33:10]  It's like a little, very minute little bit that looked like it was smeared on the floor.
[00:33:15]  That's it.
[00:33:16]  Because the important thing here was with the nine millimeter, I didn't have like hollow point rounds or anything like that.
[00:33:22]  It was like regular full metal jackets.
[00:33:24]  So, everything, two out of the three, was through and through.
[00:33:29]  The third one apparently did, I guess, did not go all the way through.
[00:33:32]  So, the crime scene was very simple, which is not, I'm not sure how they fucked all this up so bad.
[00:33:39]  So, when he was on the ground, you know, the time that he was there, probably 15 minutes or so, still there was no blood on the floor.
[00:33:46]  The refrigerator door was struck by one of the bullets.
[00:33:51]  It hit the handle of the door, then hit the refrigerator, and then bounced over and hit a wall like probably two inches above my dog cage where my dog was sitting this entire time.
[00:34:01]  Oh my God.
[00:34:02]  Yeah.
[00:34:02]  He didn't even fucking move.
[00:34:03]  Like he's a husky.
[00:34:04]  He didn't even wake up.
[00:34:05]  Well, he was awake, but I mean, he's just like, he's always got this fucking just stale look anyway, just like, you know, just looking.
[00:34:11]  He didn't even budge.
[00:34:12]  And I'm just, but I didn't even know that it went over there.
[00:34:14]  Like that's not something that I even knew at the time.
[00:34:16]  So you're saying that bullet went.
[00:34:18]  Threw him first, then hit the handle, and then went over your dog's cage.
[00:34:21]  Yeah, that's how close and proximity we were.
[00:34:24]  It went, it hit the handle because we were kind of at an angle.
[00:34:26]  So it hit the handle of the refrigerator, it hit the door, then bounced and hit a wall.
[00:34:31]  Another bullet hit, I had like a 24 pack of like water, like this, and beside the refrigerator.
[00:34:36]  So it went into that water, probably like midways into the pack.
[00:34:40]  Well, the police never found it.
[00:34:43]  I found it after I got back.
[00:34:45]  Wow.
[00:34:46]  Yeah.
[00:34:46]  And we had to call them, let them know.
[00:34:49]  So they had to come back out, you know.
[00:34:51]  Take pictures, bag it, tag it, and all that good stuff.
[00:34:53]  So that was kind of like a number one, the first knock that they didn't really do the greatest investigation on this thing.
[00:35:01]  But like I said, the blood we cleaned up with like one paper towel.
[00:35:04]  So that was that.
[00:35:05]  That was the extent of the cleanup outside of the damage on the refrigerator.

=== Savage Lawyer Questions (04:20) ===

[00:35:10]  So Monday morning, I go to my lawyer's office.
[00:35:14]  He's like, you know, we're not coming in, but you can give us the questions you want to answer, and we'll write a statement and send it back to you.
[00:35:21]  So I was like, you know, I don't know what I ain't never done this before.
[00:35:24]  You know, if that's what you say we'll do, we'll do.
[00:35:27]  So I wrote my statement, we sent it in, and that was pretty much the extent of it.
[00:35:33]  This was Monday morning.
[00:35:36]  Tuesday went by, didn't hear anything.
[00:35:39]  Wednesday, the lawyer calls me at like 4 30 in the afternoon.
[00:35:44]  And he's like, Hey, he said, I got some bad news.
[00:35:46]  I was like, What?
[00:35:47]  And he's like, They're charging you with murder.
[00:35:49]  And I was like, Fucking why?
[00:35:52]  And he was like, I do not know.
[00:35:53]  They didn't tell me the reason why.
[00:35:54]  He just said they're charging you with murder.
[00:35:56]  He said, The only thing I can figure is maybe they were thinking that you planned to get him there so you could kill him because you were mad at him.
[00:36:02]  I'm like, They have been together for fucking months.
[00:36:05]  Like, this is not like I just found this out.
[00:36:07]  I was like, nobody was getting, if anybody was mad, it was him.
[00:36:12]  You know, that wasn't the situation.
[00:36:13]  He's like, well, like I said, I don't know why, but I just know that they want to charge you and they want you to turn yourself in tomorrow at one o'clock at the local jail.
[00:36:21]  It's a Hill Finkley detention center.
[00:36:24]  So I'm just like, motherfucker.
[00:36:25]  So I hung up the phone.
[00:36:26]  I was like, I'll call you back.
[00:36:28]  So at this point, I'm just like, I don't know what, like, everything's racing through my mind.
[00:36:32]  I was just like, this can't be fucking happening.
[00:36:35]  So I start calling, you know, people that I know.
[00:36:37]  I'm like, look, who's like, The best legit fucking attorney for something like this.
[00:36:42]  The same name keeps popping up.
[00:36:43]  Even people from states, like other areas of the state, everybody kept coming back to one name.
[00:36:50]  It was a guy named Andy Savage.
[00:36:52]  Andy Savage?
[00:36:53]  Andy Savage.
[00:36:53]  Really close to Andy Savage.
[00:36:55]  Yeah.
[00:36:56]  And that's exactly what he was.
[00:36:57]  He was a savage in the courtroom.
[00:36:59]  I mean, like, he's the sweetest guy you ever want to meet.
[00:37:03]  But when it comes to like being in a courtroom, like, he's ruthless.
[00:37:08]  And I can see why lawyers like him get paid the amount of money.
[00:37:13]  That they do.
[00:37:13]  I'm going to keep going.
[00:37:14]  I'm going to change this so Austin can pull up a picture.
[00:37:16]  I'm sure this guy has a website.
[00:37:17]  I want to see his picture.
[00:37:18]  Oh, yeah.
[00:37:19]  Yeah.
[00:37:20]  Andy Savage Law Office, Charleston, South Carolina.
[00:37:26]  You know, Randy Savage is from about 10 minutes from here.
[00:37:28]  Really?
[00:37:29]  Yeah, that's where he originally lived.
[00:37:30]  Wow.
[00:37:31]  Yeah, that is right.
[00:37:32]  I forgot he did.
[00:37:33]  He didn't grow up in Florida.
[00:37:33]  And he actually died literally like five minutes from here.
[00:37:37]  Yeah, he hit that tree up here, right?
[00:37:38]  Yeah, that's him right there.
[00:37:39]  Andy Savage.
[00:37:40]  He does look like a savage.
[00:37:42]  That's him.
[00:37:43]  Yeah, he looks like a badass.
[00:37:45]  Yeah, that's his wife right there.
[00:37:47]  Oh, his wife almost looks like more of a badass.
[00:37:49]  Yeah.
[00:37:51]  You remember the case that got a lot of attention with Michael Slager and Walter Scott?
[00:37:57]  It was years ago where Slager was the cop.
[00:37:59]  Walter Scott was like running away and he shot him, you know, multiple times in the back.
[00:38:04]  Yeah.
[00:38:04]  It like swept the country.
[00:38:05]  Well, Slager had a lawyer at the time.
[00:38:10]  Well, when that tape came out, that lawyer dropped him.
[00:38:13]  Andy picked him up.
[00:38:15]  And he actually beat the state charges.
[00:38:19]  Or I say beat it, it was a hung jury, which is essentially beaten.
[00:38:22]  You're not going to prison.
[00:38:24]  But then the feds come in and they redone it, and the guy did wind up getting found guilty.
[00:38:29]  But there was a lot of controversy over that.
[00:38:31]  But to break, like, if you actually listen to it.
[00:38:34]  He represented the cop who shot the guy in the back.
[00:38:36]  Wow.
[00:38:37]  Yeah.
[00:38:37]  If you read up on him with the Michael Schlager case, there's a bunch of write ups on him.
[00:38:42]  And I mean, a lot of high profile stuff that he's done.
[00:38:45]  I mean, he's one of the best.
[00:38:47]  I mean, I didn't follow how that.
[00:38:49]  Case ended, but that's kind of mind blowing that they even had a hung jury.
[00:38:53]  Yeah, it was.
[00:38:54]  But a lot of that was because you only seen the video of that portion of him running away and getting shot in the back.
[00:38:59]  But what they were able to actually go in and prove, and our CSI guy that wound up working on my case actually done a podcast on it to where they found out and they had proof that he was actually tased before he took off and started running, that the cop was tased by his own taser.
[00:39:16]  So there's a lot more that people didn't get.
[00:39:18]  I mean, they're going off that one video.
[00:39:21]  But, you know, I was like you at the time.
[00:39:23]  I didn't know all this.
[00:39:24]  I'm just going off what I see on TV, which now I look at things in a different light from everything that happened to me.

=== Bench Time Delays (09:02) ===

[00:39:30]  But at the time, I was not doing that.
[00:39:32]  And, you know, I was thinking the same thing you.
[00:39:34]  I'm like, how the hell did he even get off on that?
[00:39:36]  But when you start breaking down a lot of the details of the case, I have to send you a link to that case where that CSI guy explains it.
[00:39:42]  I'd love to see it.
[00:39:43]  Yeah, he explains it really well.
[00:39:45]  But, you know, I call him that day and it's after hours at this point in time.
[00:39:50]  So I leave a message.
[00:39:51]  Well, then probably an hour later, I get a call back from his secretary, kind of give her the overview of what's going on.
[00:39:57]  And I was like, you know, she said, can you come in tomorrow?
[00:39:59]  I'm like, well, I'm supposed to be going to fucking jail at like one o'clock.
[00:40:02]  Like, you know, what time do you want to meet?
[00:40:04]  And she said, be here at seven in the morning.
[00:40:06]  Like, all right.
[00:40:07]  So my mom, me, my wife, we all go to the lawyer's office and, you know, massive office downtown Charleston go in.
[00:40:17]  And, you know, he's basically like, all right, just kind of tell me, you know, the story.
[00:40:20]  And I'm telling him as I'm kind of telling you here the same way.
[00:40:24]  And he looks at me and he was like, why are we here?
[00:40:27]  And I'm like, I don't know.
[00:40:29]  He's like, is it an election year?
[00:40:30]  Is something going on?
[00:40:32]  Like, is, you know, believe me, he's like, all the people that I'll have working on this, if you're not being truthful with me now, it will come out.
[00:40:38]  And I was like, dude, everything I'm telling you is the God's honest truth.
[00:40:42]  I was like, I'm in a very good position to where I do not need to lie about anything that's taking place.
[00:40:47]  Like, I don't need, and I didn't touch anything after it was done.
[00:40:50]  I didn't move anything.
[00:40:52]  Everything was as is.
[00:40:54]  And so he's like, All right.
[00:40:55]  He's like, You know, well, tell me a little bit more.
[00:40:57]  So as I'm going into detail, telling him more about my background, the guy's background, like stuff's being printed off, reports are being printed off.
[00:41:05]  Like, it was like something out of a movie.
[00:41:07]  Like, they were just getting shit done so fast.
[00:41:10]  And He's like, give me one second.
[00:41:12]  So he goes outside, he makes a phone call, he comes back in, he said, I got your surrender pushback till Friday.
[00:41:18]  He's like, I'll probably get it pushed back till Sunday, but I'm just giving us some time to get things rolling.
[00:41:22]  So I was like, well, and I appreciate that.
[00:41:24]  A couple more days of freedom, but that's the kind of stroke that he had to be able to do that.
[00:41:28]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:41:29]  Because I don't think any average lawyer can pick up the phone and push back something like that, especially, you know, they're charging you with murder.
[00:41:36]  It's not like you shoplifting from a family dollar.
[00:41:39]  So we get together and start getting character letters written.
[00:41:43]  So, I got to reach out to everybody that's got care, you know, to write character letters.
[00:41:47]  Um, you know, even some people I had to turn away because it was like, try not to have any of them be felons.
[00:41:52]  And so, like, 10 of the guys, I'm like, all right, I appreciate it, but you know, you just don't worry about sending that letter in.
[00:41:58]  So, we get to the point, uh, he does get it pushed back till Sunday.
[00:42:03]  So, like, it's almost like just a family gathering at the house, like family I hadn't seen in a while.
[00:42:08]  Everybody gathers at the house Saturday night, just kind of hang out.
[00:42:12]  And then Sunday, it was almost like, I never thought that that was like a legitimate thing, but like, if you've seen Goodfellas.
[00:42:18]  When Ray Leota hops in the car and he's like, All right, take me to jail.
[00:42:21]  I'm like, That doesn't happen like that.
[00:42:22]  Well, it kind of does because if you facilitate your surrender, that's exactly what happened.
[00:42:26]  Like, we hung out that Sunday and then I got in the car and, you know, me and my wife was in the back and my mom actually drove me to jail and dropped me off.
[00:42:34]  Wow.
[00:42:35]  And, and I go in here now, I go in here not thinking or not knowing that if I will get bond because bond is not always guaranteed.
[00:42:44]  A lot of times it's not even given on murder.
[00:42:46]  So I'm going in not knowing if I'm coming right back out.
[00:42:50]  So we go in there and I sit down and there's like this biker looking guy on the bench beside me and he's sitting there and he's like a bench of shame, huh?
[00:43:00]  And I'm like, yeah, I guess you could say that.
[00:43:03]  And I've always just been told like when you go in jail, just shut the fuck up.
[00:43:06]  Don't say anything to anybody, you know, just mind your own business.
[00:43:09]  And so I'm trying to do that.
[00:43:10]  This is your first time ever in jail?
[00:43:12]  Yeah, I've never been arrested before.
[00:43:13]  Wow.
[00:43:13]  So it was like straight to the top of the worst list you can be in there for.
[00:43:18]  And I've never been arrested for anything.
[00:43:19]  The worst I'd had is a speeding ticket.
[00:43:22]  And so he says that, and then they fingerprint us and you know take our mug shots and all that, and they send us to the holding area.
[00:43:30]  And so he sits like right by me.
[00:43:32]  And he's like, you know, hey, just making small talk.
[00:43:35]  He never asked me what I was in there for.
[00:43:37]  I'd say probably like an hour, two hours comes by and they grab me, him, and another kid to go see the magistrate.
[00:43:45]  Well, I'd already been told that a magistrate can't grant bond for a murder.
[00:43:49]  That's got to be seen by the circuit court.
[00:43:51]  So I knew going in that I wasn't going to get any kind of clarification from the magistrate, but it was still the formality that I had to go.
[00:43:59]  So they got us, you know, wrist to wrist.
[00:44:01]  Chained down to the ankle, I'll go to the room and they sit us down.
[00:44:05]  My last name's Williamson, so I'm always like at the ass end of everything.
[00:44:09]  And they call the kid first, it was like simple possession of marijuana and you know, PR bond.
[00:44:15]  And they call the biker guy, he was like, you know, second DUI, I gotta get this, that.
[00:44:20]  And they're like, okay, well, my actual first name is Wade.
[00:44:24]  Uh, everybody calls me Chip, but he's like, you know, Wade Williamson, you're charged with possession of weapon during a violent crime and charge of murder in the first degree.
[00:44:31]  And I was like, yes, sir.
[00:44:32]  He's like, well, as you know, I can't get bond on that.
[00:44:34]  He was like, you'll be seen by the circuit court.
[00:44:36]  So I look back, and the guy that was sitting next to me is now like slid all the way down to the other end of the fucking bench.
[00:44:44]  And we go, we get back up because I was the last one.
[00:44:47]  We go back into the Holden.
[00:44:48]  He goes straight.
[00:44:49]  He grabs his blanket, goes to like the far corner.
[00:44:52]  I didn't hear from him again for the rest of the time we were in there.
[00:44:56]  But some people, once we got more people started getting in there, they knew who I was because they have TVs and shit in there.
[00:45:03]  Like, so they were seeing the local news.
[00:45:05]  So one of the guys even said, You're the dude from Kane Bay.
[00:45:08]  And I was just like, how the fuck do y'all know that?
[00:45:10]  But they have a TV in there where they can watch the local news.
[00:45:14]  So a lot of the people knew who I was.
[00:45:17]  So I go in there the first night, and this is where I really kind of caught a break because, as I said, you've got to be seen by the circuit court to even attempt to get bond for a murder charge.
[00:45:28]  And those rotate through counties.
[00:45:31]  Luckily, they were in my county that week.
[00:45:35]  So I didn't have to wait to see them.
[00:45:36]  Had they been in another county and they had to cycle back, I could have been in there a month, you know, however long it took them to cycle back around.
[00:45:43]  Luckily, they were in there that week, and I know that I'm getting seen Monday morning.
[00:45:48]  So they come and they grab me Monday, probably like nine, 10 o'clock.
[00:45:52]  And I was like, all right, you know, getting you for court.
[00:45:54]  And they're walking me from the jail to the court, but it's like an underground walkway.
[00:45:59]  And this thing looks like a fucking dungeon.
[00:46:02]  I mean, it's like something you see out of one of those movies where they're just taking you to kill you or something.
[00:46:05]  I mean, it's just, I'm just walking.
[00:46:07]  It seemed like the longest walk ever.
[00:46:09]  They put me in a room with a lot of other guys that are in there, and I'm still in street clothes because I hadn't been out of the holding tank yet.
[00:46:16]  And so, all these guys are in like orange jumpsuits.
[00:46:19]  And one of the guys, like, you must be in here for family court.
[00:46:21]  And I was like, well, something like that.
[00:46:23]  And again, I'm not saying anything to nobody.
[00:46:25]  And I'm listening to all these guys talking.
[00:46:27]  Like, one of them is talking about how he's thinking about cutting a plea because he said his sister on fire and he doesn't want to go to trial.
[00:46:35]  And I'm just sitting in the corner, like, motherfucker.
[00:46:38]  And another guy is telling him, like, how he's going to get transferred to Atlanta.
[00:46:42]  To testify against another guy that he knows up there, but he's really not going to do it.
[00:46:47]  He's just transferring just so he can have better food.
[00:46:49]  I guess the prisons in Atlanta have better food than the one in Charleston.
[00:46:53]  And then another guy's saying he's just making sure he or hoping he can get a glimpse of somebody that put him in there so he can try to stab him or something.
[00:47:01]  I mean, it's just the shit that was being said in there was just fucking mind blowing.
[00:47:05]  I'm sure that's normal for people in prison, but like as I said, I've never been locked up.
[00:47:10]  So I'm sitting over there just quiet as hell and they finally call my name.
[00:47:13]  So I go into this room and they cuff me up.
[00:47:15]  You know, wrist again, wrist to ankle, the little thing where you can barely walk.
[00:47:19]  And I go in this courtroom, and I mean, it is fucking massive.
[00:47:22]  It is the biggest courtroom I've ever seen in my life.
[00:47:24]  Like something you see on, like a law and order is huge.
[00:47:28]  As the bailer's like walking me to my lawyer's desk, I see all my family and everything sitting out there.
[00:47:35]  And we go up and I'm standing beside him.
[00:47:36]  And so, of course, at that time, they're battling.
[00:47:38]  He's presenting to the judge why I should get out.
[00:47:42]  They're presenting to the judge why they want me to stay in jail.
[00:47:45]  And he's like, You know, Your Honor, he's, you know, had the same job for 14 and a half years, upstanding member of the community, never been in trouble, you know, has kids, you know, no issues to keep him in here, you know.
[00:47:57]  There, the states about giving their reasons, you know, oh, he killed a man in cold blood, this, that, and the other.
[00:48:02]  And the judge looks and she goes, Okay, I'll make my decision and let you know and bangs the gavel down.
[00:48:09]  So I'm like, What the anything I've ever seen, like they give a answer right there, like either granted or denied.
[00:48:16]  And I looked at my lawyer, I'm like, What the fuck does that mean?
[00:48:18]  And he's like, I guess that means you should let us know.
[00:48:21]  And I don't get to keep talking.
[00:48:22]  Like the guy's already grabbing me and taking me back to the room to go back to the cell.
[00:48:27]  And as we're going back to her, I'm like, What the hell does that mean?
[00:48:29]  She'll let us know.
[00:48:30]  He's like, I should probably give her a decision in a week or so.

=== Shower Transfer Drama (04:23) ===

[00:48:32]  I'm like, a week or so.
[00:48:34]  Like, I'm hoping, best case scenario, to get the fuck out of here as quick as possible.
[00:48:38]  And so I don't know what's going on.
[00:48:40]  So I go back and I give it a couple hours and I go to the phone and I call my wife and I'm like, all right, what's going on?
[00:48:47]  And she said, well, they've already made the decision.
[00:48:49]  She said, they're going to give you bond.
[00:48:50]  She said, but you're probably not going to get out till tomorrow because they got to process paperwork and everything.
[00:48:55]  And I'm like, all right, well, as long as I know I'm getting out of here, I'm cool.
[00:48:58]  Like, I can deal with it.
[00:49:00]  And so, but she said, there's a chance you could get out today, but it's probably going to be tomorrow.
[00:49:05]  Now, throughout this holding time, they are still calling people, even as late as six, seven, eight o'clock at night, that are getting out.
[00:49:11]  So I'm hoping that I can get out, but I'm not like got the best, you know, faith in the world of it.
[00:49:17]  Well, like 9 30 comes and the door opens, and I was like, Williamson.
[00:49:22]  So I'm like, fuck yeah.
[00:49:23]  And I hopped off the bed.
[00:49:24]  I'm like, all right, let's go.
[00:49:26]  And he's like, yeah, we're transferring you to a C pod.
[00:49:27]  And I'm just like, wait a minute.
[00:49:29]  I was like, I'm supposed to be getting out of here tomorrow.
[00:49:30]  He's like, that may be, but he's like, we got to transfer you out of here because we got more people coming in.
[00:49:34]  And he looks at me and he's like, You're Leah's dad, right?
[00:49:37]  And Leah's my stepdaughter.
[00:49:39]  I've been in her life since she was three, so I consider her my daughter.
[00:49:42]  And he was like, Yeah, he said, My wife was her gymnastics teacher.
[00:49:47]  No shit.
[00:49:47]  Yeah, and I'm just like, Well, pleasure to meet you.
[00:49:50]  I don't know.
[00:49:51]  Shitty way to do it, but you know, he's like, Yeah, he said, We got to transfer you to the C pod.
[00:49:56]  He's like, You know, we have a rule with so many people in holding as they keep coming out who was ever the one that's been in there the longest, they get transferred to the pods.
[00:50:05]  So I'm just like, Oh shit.
[00:50:07]  So we go and they, I got to give them all my clothes.
[00:50:09]  They give me the orange jumpsuit, the rubber flip flops, the cup, toothbrush, toilet paper, three in one body wash, shampoo, conditioner, send me home.
[00:50:21]  So I go in there and there's like these two rooms stacked.
[00:50:25]  It's like a big open area where the TV is, and then like, you know, a row, a door with a row at the bottom, and then stairs with a thing at the top.
[00:50:33]  And it's basically just like a huge open room with bunk beds on each side of the wall all the way down.
[00:50:39]  So I go up to the top.
[00:50:41]  Walk through trying to find something on the bottom that didn't happen.
[00:50:45]  Everybody's got the bottom, nobody wants to sleep on the top.
[00:50:47]  Well, as I walk to the end and I'm coming back, I see the guy that said he set his sister on fire and he kind of waves at me like that.
[00:50:54]  And I'm just like, Sup, man?
[00:50:56]  Like, kind of pointed up top.
[00:50:57]  I was like, anybody up there?
[00:50:58]  And he's like, No, go ahead.
[00:51:00]  So we get up there, and you know, I'm just still sitting there at this point.
[00:51:03]  I'm looking at the ceiling.
[00:51:04]  I'm just like, How the fuck am I here?
[00:51:06]  Like, I just don't get it.
[00:51:07]  Like, I've done everything by the book and the people.
[00:51:11]  In there, we're just like listening to some of those conversations.
[00:51:15]  Like, it's not what most people would think.
[00:51:17]  A lot of them are talking about like what they want to do when they get out, like start a business or do this or do that.
[00:51:22]  And there's a lot of smart people in there.
[00:51:24]  I mean, Matt Cox even said, you know, when you put people away, like the way their brains work, it's just constantly creating different things.
[00:51:32]  And like they would, if there was an air vent coming down where it had cold air, they would wet like toilet paper and throw it up and clog the vents.
[00:51:39]  That way the air wouldn't blow directly on them.
[00:51:42]  I mean, they would figure out ways to do anything.
[00:51:44]  There was a guy in there that had water in a bag and then he had that in like a pillowcase type thing.
[00:51:51]  And that was what he was using as a dumbbell.
[00:51:54]  Wow.
[00:51:54]  Yeah, I mean, they come up with a lot of different stuff in there to be able to get, I guess, through the day.
[00:52:01]  And this one guy comes up to me at this time, it's probably like 11 at night.
[00:52:05]  And he's like, You need a job?
[00:52:08]  And I'm like, Huh?
[00:52:09]  And he's like, You need a job?
[00:52:11]  He's like, Are you going to be bonding out?
[00:52:12]  And I was like, Oh, I was like, Yeah, I'm getting out of here tomorrow.
[00:52:14]  He's like, All right, well, I won't worry about putting you on anything.
[00:52:18]  He comes up back up again later.
[00:52:19]  He's like, If you go to use the shower, he's like, You know how to work the shower, right?
[00:52:23]  I'm not telling anybody that I've never been in there before.
[00:52:25]  So I'm like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I know.
[00:52:27]  I mean, I just want to let them think that, you know, I've probably been there before.
[00:52:30]  So I did go in there to try to take a shower.
[00:52:33]  And what it is, they have these things that come out of the wall.
[00:52:35]  Well, when you press it, it's like an automatic, you know, detractor and it comes out and it only lasts for like five seconds.
[00:52:41]  Right.
[00:52:41]  Well, what they do is they managed to make something where you can put in there to keep it from coming back.
[00:52:47]  I couldn't figure out how to work that thing to save my fucking life, but I wasn't going to go ask nobody.
[00:52:51]  So I'm having to take showers in like four second increments, you know, to get showers at the beach.

=== Preliminary Hearing Report (15:28) ===

[00:52:56]  Yeah.
[00:52:57]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:52:57]  Matter of fact, these are a lot shorter at the beach, though.
[00:53:00]  It just seemed like maybe even three seconds.
[00:53:02]  I mean, it just went off quick.
[00:53:03]  So I managed to do the best I could.
[00:53:05]  And I come out, and there's a group of guys just like sitting around the table near where the bed was.
[00:53:10]  And one of them noticed, like, I do have a lot of tattoos, and the guy was asking me about my tattoos.
[00:53:15]  And like, everyone I'm in there knew my tattoo artist.
[00:53:18]  So I was like, shout out to him, Eric Rowling.
[00:53:21]  But everybody in there knew that.
[00:53:23]  So I think they just assumed that I had been there before.
[00:53:27]  So nobody, it wasn't like nobody ever threatened me or, you know, It was anything of violence.
[00:53:32]  They were actually like very cool in there.
[00:53:34]  They were trying to teach, like this one kid, or not teach, but they were trying to preach to this one kid, like he needed to get his life straight when he got out, that he had skills and he was wasting his life.
[00:53:43]  So it wasn't exactly what people, I think, envision when you go in there, but still, it's nowhere you want to be.
[00:53:49]  You want to be home.
[00:53:50]  And I got out the next day.
[00:53:53]  Mom came and picked me up, went home.
[00:53:56]  And so at this point, I'm meeting back up with a lawyer and I'm like, all right, you know, what are we doing here?
[00:54:00]  Because You know, I didn't do this, I didn't murder anybody.
[00:54:04]  Like, you know, the guy reached out to me.
[00:54:06]  That should right there should blow a hole in any sort of premeditation because I didn't reach out to him.
[00:54:11]  He reached out to me.
[00:54:12]  And all that's in text messages in the phones that the cops got.
[00:54:15]  I was like, So I don't know what the hell they're basing this off of.
[00:54:18]  And he's like, I don't either.
[00:54:19]  Were you worried at this point that like something fishy could be going on with your phone or with the evidence that you had?
[00:54:26]  Like the cops could be, the prosecutors could be fucking with it at all?
[00:54:29]  Yeah, very much so.
[00:54:31]  Because I did have to give them my phone that day.
[00:54:34]  And I'm just like, well, if they go deleting shit, like, you know, how am I going to prove it other than like maybe subpoenaing Verizon or something like that?
[00:54:42]  But the thing was, is I never really got like a clear cut answer of why they were charging me until the next step of this was a preliminary hearing.
[00:54:52]  That probably took place, I want to say it was in July.
[00:54:56]  So that was kind of like the big step.
[00:54:58]  He's like, you know, we'll go to preliminary hearing, we'll see what evidence they have then.
[00:55:02]  And, you know, that's how we'll base our case because the preliminary hearing.
[00:55:06]  They give reasons of why they charged you.
[00:55:09]  They don't necessarily disclose evidence.
[00:55:11]  So it's not like a trial.
[00:55:12]  It's just basically they say, all right, this is what we have.
[00:55:15]  This is why we charged him.
[00:55:17]  You know, he can come back and say, well, this is why you shouldn't have charged him.
[00:55:20]  And then the judge makes the decision to send it to trial.
[00:55:23]  So we go in there, and the detective that was on the case was a woman, and she was recently promoted.
[00:55:29]  I was her first murder case ever.
[00:55:33]  So that made me a little nervous in and of itself.
[00:55:35]  And I think a lot of that may have been what led to this.
[00:55:38]  I think maybe it was a little overzealous.
[00:55:40]  Now, who does the detective work for?
[00:55:44]  I'm assuming the sergeant or whoever would be the top of the county police department.
[00:55:50]  Because even if she says, hey, I want to charge this guy with murder, somebody above her still had to sign off on it.
[00:55:57]  You know, the detective is not the end all be all.
[00:56:00]  I understand.
[00:56:01]  Like it's you and your lawyer, and then there's who is the one trying to judge, not the judge, right?
[00:56:06]  There's like a prosecutor or a state prosecutor.
[00:56:08]  Yeah.
[00:56:08]  At the time, there's a solicitor.
[00:56:09]  They have solicitors where we're at, and that's what, that's their job.
[00:56:12]  So the solicitor's on one side of the table.
[00:56:15]  We're in the courtroom.
[00:56:15]  The solicitor's on one side of the table.
[00:56:17]  Me and my lawyer's on the other.
[00:56:19]  And they're trying to just, you know, lay out their reasonings for the charges.
[00:56:24]  We're debunking them, but they also can call witnesses at this time.
[00:56:27]  So who, sorry, I didn't.
[00:56:29]  Who is the one that decided to charge you with murder?
[00:56:31]  Well, the detective at the end of the day is the one that decided to charge.
[00:56:34]  Yeah, all her reports wrote up that they were going to, the evidence that they looked at, they concluded they were going to charge me with murder.
[00:56:41]  So the detective is the one that wrote up the report to charge me.
[00:56:45]  I'm not sure who above her signed off on it.
[00:56:48]  I'm sure somebody did, maybe sheriff or someone along those lines.
[00:56:52]  What about that report made it not self defense?
[00:56:57]  Well, that's what I was, that's what I'm going to get into here in the preliminary hearing because.
[00:57:01]  In the reports that they give the pathologist or the pathologist gave, it said the bullet path doesn't indicate like a close contact shooting.
[00:57:12]  Well, the bullet path, at least one of them, because there were three, but one of them, it enters here, you know, and exits lower.
[00:57:21]  So how you get that is if I'm coming at you, you know, at an attack mode.
[00:57:27]  So it's like if you're like this and the bullet goes straight through, it's going to enter higher, but exit lower.
[00:57:32]  It's still in a straight line.
[00:57:34]  It's just got a different entry and exit point.
[00:57:36]  But bullets don't always go in and out of people in a straight line.
[00:57:39]  Correct.
[00:57:40]  If they hit bone, they can go God knows where.
[00:57:43]  They can bounce around inside the body.
[00:57:45]  Yeah, there's a lot of different ways that trajectory can get thrown off.
[00:57:50]  This one going through and through actually proved my point more than some of them that would go a different way because it was because straight shots going down, like charging at you.
[00:57:59]  Yeah.
[00:58:00]  Because when he was coming back at me, that's when I fired.
[00:58:03]  So it all lined up.
[00:58:04]  But the way she wrote the report was like it wasn't, you know, It wasn't conclusive to be like a close contact shooting.
[00:58:12]  Okay.
[00:58:13]  Another thing was blood spatter.
[00:58:16]  So during the night, everything happened.
[00:58:18]  I had on a white long sleeve shirt.
[00:58:21]  Forward spatter is kind of like backwards, but forward spatter is what, if I shoot you, would come out onto me.
[00:58:29]  I'm pretty sure I'm saying that right.
[00:58:30]  Back spatter is what goes.
[00:58:31]  No, I'm sorry.
[00:58:32]  It's back spatter.
[00:58:33]  If I shoot you, back spatter is what comes onto me.
[00:58:35]  Forward spatter is what goes out that way.
[00:58:38]  They were saying that there was no blood spatter on me.
[00:58:41]  Which to them indicated that we were not in close proximity to each other.
[00:58:46]  But the guy was wearing three shirts.
[00:58:49]  He had on like a regular t shirt, then like a wicking, like Under Armour type shirt, and then like a longer sleeve shirt with a hoodie over top of that.
[00:58:58]  So the likelihood of any blood spatter coming out of three layers of clothes is going to be very, very minimal, if not straight up non existent, because it can't travel through all that.
[00:59:12]  And again, like I said, these were steel jacket rounds, they're not like hollow points.
[00:59:15]  That's going to make these massive holes.
[00:59:18]  And so that was another reason why they said, charged me.
[00:59:20]  They said the bullet path didn't line up to be a close contact shooting.
[00:59:24]  There was no blood transfer on me from the shooting, nor from me delivering life saving measures.
[00:59:32]  And I was just like, well, how are you going to say that I didn't go put that towel on him?
[00:59:35]  Because there was nobody else in the house.
[00:59:37]  It's just me and him.
[00:59:38]  And when the arriving officer comes there, the towel is literally sitting on him.
[00:59:43]  So I'm like, you know, there's nobody else who could have put that towel on him but me.
[00:59:47]  And I can't help that there wasn't any blood.
[00:59:50]  You know, it just happened to be that way.
[00:59:52]  I know some crime scenes, there's a, A shitload of blood.
[00:59:54]  This one, there was none.
[00:59:56]  And so that was really it.
[00:59:57]  Like, there was no other, you know, they didn't bring up anything about, well, text message this and text that.
[01:00:03]  That was really like it that they brought up.
[01:00:07]  And, you know, my lawyer's fighting back with his reasoning.
[01:00:10]  And the judge even says, she looks at him and she goes, there's not a lot here.
[01:00:14]  She said, but given the situation, I'm going to bind it to trial.
[01:00:18]  So that means we're going to trial.
[01:00:21]  So we leave there, kind of regrouping, figuring out what to do.
[01:00:25]  And Andy already told me, he said, if they bind it to trial, he said, then the first thing I do is make a motion for a Duncan hearing, which is basically a hearing for self defense.
[01:00:36]  And when you do that, like in a regular trial, the burden of proof is on the state to prove you're innocent.
[01:00:44]  When you're doing a self defense, it's flipped.
[01:00:46]  The burden of proof is on you to prove that you acted in self defense.
[01:00:51]  And so that's really what we were planning on.
[01:00:53]  And at this point, this is like, you know, like I said, July, we didn't hear.
[01:00:57]  Anything else?
[01:00:58]  We never went to trial again.
[01:01:01]  We never done anything else.
[01:01:05]  Recently, I actually started a podcast myself.
[01:01:09]  It started getting some legs on it, and I had the opportunity to go to New York to talk with some guys up there.
[01:01:14]  So I'm on house arrest this whole time.
[01:01:16]  Like that was part of my bond.
[01:01:17]  Can't have guns.
[01:01:19]  So, can't have knives.
[01:01:21]  They didn't give you any sort of idea when the trial would happen.
[01:01:24]  Nope.
[01:01:26]  No idea when it would happen.
[01:01:27]  My lawyer said that he was going to make the motion for the Duncan hearing.
[01:01:31]  Obviously, in this point in time, they're still running tests, getting stuff back.
[01:01:35]  Because Sled, like, I'm sure everybody knows this, but it's not like fucking CSI Miami.
[01:01:40]  You don't get shit back in a half an hour.
[01:01:42]  Like, I think it was almost a year before they got reports back from Sled.
[01:01:47]  And in those reports, it was Sled.
[01:01:49]  Well, South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, because I'm in South Carolina.
[01:01:54]  Those reports indicated that not only was he on prescription pills because he was diagnosed with PTSD from the Army, he was also on steroids.
[01:02:03]  And he was also three times the legal limit in alcohol.
[01:02:07]  Now, and one thing I'm gonna back up just one minute because I forgot about this.
[01:02:11]  In the preliminary hearing, when the detective was on the stand, she lied on the stand at least five times that we had documented proof of.
[01:02:20]  So, one, and even some of them are minuscule, but they were still lies.
[01:02:23]  This is after the trial starts?
[01:02:24]  Yeah.
[01:02:25]  Well, this is that preliminary hearing that I was telling you about.
[01:02:27]  Yeah.
[01:02:28]  Yeah.
[01:02:28]  I skipped over that, but it's important.
[01:02:31]  She's like, in her reports that she wrote, She says she collects two vials of steroids from a trash can where he was at.
[01:02:41]  Well, in the preliminary hearing, she said there was only one.
[01:02:44]  She also says that when the arriving officer got there, I was so distraught that I locked the door to the house.
[01:02:51]  Never happened.
[01:02:52]  Like he walked right the fuck in.
[01:02:54]  I just came out the door.
[01:02:55]  I think it was still open.
[01:02:56]  Did you question her when she said this?
[01:02:58]  I can't.
[01:03:00]  This is the part to where it's difficult in the preliminary hearing because you can't question.
[01:03:07]  You can't question like that.
[01:03:08]  It's not a time to debate facts.
[01:03:10]  It's just presenting the evidence of why.
[01:03:12]  So it's really frustrating to hear them say shit that you know are lies.
[01:03:16]  And she even said that there was a, they were talking about, you know, history of violence.
[01:03:20]  And he said, well, he has a history of violence.
[01:03:23]  And my lawyer's like, what?
[01:03:24]  And he's like, oh, yeah, he's not allowed at the school to pick up his son.
[01:03:28]  I'm sitting there.
[01:03:29]  I'm like, what the fuck?
[01:03:30]  And so what happened?
[01:03:31]  This is like a real crazy part.
[01:03:33]  My wife works at the high school in our neighborhood.
[01:03:37]  She's a guidance counselor there.
[01:03:39]  At some point during our separation, you know, obviously no separations go 100% smooth.
[01:03:44]  So we were arguing.
[01:03:46]  She overhears my wife arguing with me.
[01:03:50]  She goes on her own and makes a report saying, you know, overheard an employee arguing with husband, just making note if something was to happen here at the school.
[01:04:02]  That's it.
[01:04:02]  She was the one who did this.
[01:04:04]  A school resource officer who worked there.
[01:04:06]  Okay.
[01:04:06]  So she makes this report.
[01:04:08]  She didn't tell my wife.
[01:04:09]  She spelled my wife's name wrong on the report.
[01:04:11]  She didn't notify the principal.
[01:04:12]  She just wrote it and turned it in.
[01:04:15]  So that's the report that this detective was talking about.
[01:04:19]  So after this is over, like I didn't even know anything about it.
[01:04:22]  So I couldn't tell my lawyer.
[01:04:23]  I'm like, that's bullshit.
[01:04:24]  But, you know, he don't, he don't really know exactly what's going on.
[01:04:28]  So we go to the principal.
[01:04:29]  This is after the preliminary hearing.
[01:04:31]  And we go, he's like, you know, what is she talking about?
[01:04:33]  He's like, I've got no idea.
[01:04:35]  He's like, I've never even met that man.
[01:04:36]  He's like, I've seen him a few times at functions for the school because he had a daughter that cheers here.
[01:04:41]  And she said, I've seen him sometimes come and pick up his son because the middle school or the elementary school where my son went to school, it's basically all right there in the same area.
[01:04:49]  They have a tunnel they walk through and they can come out at the high school.
[01:04:52]  So I would go over there and pick him up.
[01:04:54]  And he said, if anybody tells anyone that they can't come on this campus for any reason, he's like, number one, that's going to come from me.
[01:05:03]  Number two, there's going to have to be documentation to back that up, reasoning why there's a lot of stuff that has to be done.
[01:05:09]  And he's like, I've never had any dealings with him.
[01:05:12]  I've never known him to cause any issues.
[01:05:15]  And he said, as far as I'm concerned, if he pulled up here today, I would have no issue with him coming in the building, getting his son, whatever it is.
[01:05:21]  Cause I would go up there and, you know, talk to my wife in her office.
[01:05:25]  So she made it seem like in the court, That I was this violent dude that wasn't even allowed to come pick up my kid from school, which was totally false.
[01:05:34]  Even the report that was written didn't even say that.
[01:05:38]  Sounds like the detective had a bone to pick with you.
[01:05:40]  For some reason.
[01:05:41]  Or either she was just new at this point, she might have fucked up and she was trying to make herself look good in there.
[01:05:47]  I don't know what she was doing.
[01:05:49]  I mean, I didn't know this woman.
[01:05:51]  I didn't know her from Adam.
[01:05:52]  I don't know if she was just trying to.
[01:05:54]  Well, why would a detective purposely change facts?
[01:06:00]  I've been asking myself that question for about five years.
[01:06:04]  And technically, you're supposed to be in trouble for that.
[01:06:07]  Like, even though that wasn't a trial, it was a preliminary hearing.
[01:06:11]  But, like, if you lie under oath, they're still under oath during all this.
[01:06:14]  If you lie under oath, like, that's grounds to be fired, possibly even do time.
[01:06:19]  Is it possible that detectives like that can get promoted from making cases like this more of a slam dunk for a prosecutor?
[01:06:29]  I think that's generally how it is.
[01:06:30]  Because that's how it is for prosecutors in general.
[01:06:32]  I mean, that's how they move up the ladder.
[01:06:34]  You know, they move up the ladder by putting people in prison.
[01:06:37]  And, you know, it happens a lot.
[01:06:39]  People want to make it a black and a white thing.
[01:06:41]  I don't really subscribe to that theory.
[01:06:43]  It's a green thing.
[01:06:44]  It's a money.
[01:06:46]  Because if you don't have the money to get a good attorney, then you're stuck with a public defender.
[01:06:53]  And that public defender is really nothing but a glorified plea bargain broker.
[01:06:58]  And, you know, you take somebody that doesn't have the availability to get a good lawyer, right?
[01:07:03]  Say they're in my shoes.
[01:07:05]  Man, you're looking at 25 to life, bro.
[01:07:07]  Like, if you just take this plea deal, maybe we'll plead it down to involuntary manslaughter, get 10 years, good behavior, do out in seven.
[01:07:15]  Somebody's going to take seven years as opposed to possibly trying to fight it and getting life in prison.
[01:07:21]  And that's for all cases, that's for drug cases, armed robbery, whatever it is.
[01:07:26]  And to their defense, the public defenders don't have the availability or the resources to fight it like a dedicated paid lawyer would do.
[01:07:35]  And that's where I was kind of fortunate because, and I even skipped over this too, I'm sorry, but when I got out of jail, The company that I work for, they fired me immediately right off the bat.
[01:07:45]  New Core Steel.
[01:07:47]  I wasn't supposed to miss any time.
[01:07:49]  Well, when I went back, they said, Hey, come up to the office.
[01:07:53]  So when they said that, I was kind of like, I know what's about to happen.
[01:07:58]  And I go in there and they actually told me, He's like, you know, we got to release you because of these charges.
[01:08:03]  And he's like, you know, where are you at right now with all this?
[01:08:06]  And I told him what was going on.
[01:08:07]  He's like, Well, I can't imagine what you're going through.
[01:08:09]  And I'm like, Well, fuck it.
[01:08:09]  Imagine getting fired on top of it.
[01:08:11]  Like, you know, don't act like you give a shit now.
[01:08:13]  Right.
[01:08:13]  You know, I mean, you know, it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but that's definitely not the case.
[01:08:18]  But the fortunate thing about them firing me was I was able at that point to get into the 401k.

=== Receptive Investigator Talk (15:13) ===

[01:08:24]  I mentioned to you earlier about I was going to give my wife a piece of that.
[01:08:27]  The good thing about this company is they would give you probably 10, 15 grand into your 401k each year from part of their profit sharing.
[01:08:35]  So I've been with the company 14 years.
[01:08:36]  I had a pretty decent amount in there.
[01:08:38]  So when I got fired, you're able to dip into that.
[01:08:42]  That's how I was able to pay the lawyers off.
[01:08:45]  And I paid them up front.
[01:08:46]  So it was like $50,000 to take the case, another $15,000 to get started and get the ball rolling.
[01:08:53]  And then we'll get to the point here shortly where we had to bring in CSI experts to investigate stuff.
[01:08:59]  All those things just, you know, that tally started adding up really quick.
[01:09:03]  But had I not been able to get to that money, you know, I'd had to do probably charge it to credit cards or whatever the case may be.
[01:09:09]  So getting fired was almost like a blessing in disguise.
[01:09:11]  Kind of a little bit because I was able to get into that money and give it to them.
[01:09:17]  And, you know, that.
[01:09:18]  After that next step, when we were going to be preparing for the immunity hearing or Duncan hearing.
[01:09:23]  Yeah.
[01:09:24]  So you said they'd never told you when the trial was going to be.
[01:09:27]  And in the meantime, you started a podcast.
[01:09:29]  Yeah.
[01:09:29]  In the middle of that.
[01:09:30]  Because see, there was a ton of sending it to trial, but the Duncan hearing would go before the trial.
[01:09:36]  Okay.
[01:09:37]  So the trial would basically be me on trial for the state.
[01:09:39]  But if you file the motion for that Duncan hearing, then they have to be seen first.
[01:09:45]  So during that time, that never really got scheduled.
[01:09:49]  He applied for it, but they just never answered him.
[01:09:51]  So, in the meantime, yeah, I started a podcast and, like I said, it grew legs and had the opportunity to go to New York.
[01:09:58]  So, I had to get permission because this whole time, all these years, I'm on house arrest.
[01:10:03]  I can only leave the house for very specific things.
[01:10:07]  Definitely not allowed to leave the state, at least without telling them where I'm going, what I'm doing, when I'm coming back, all those types of things.
[01:10:14]  And when I asked them to go to New York, you know, they actually agreed to it.
[01:10:18]  They was like, yeah, he can go.
[01:10:20]  By this time, the solicitor that was on the case originally, Had left the office.
[01:10:26]  They had another lady come in.
[01:10:28]  She was only there for a very, very limited amount of time.
[01:10:32]  Then she was gone.
[01:10:33]  Then they had a third one.
[01:10:35]  So a lot of the people that were really involved in the case were no longer really around.
[01:10:41]  Even the detective, she had messed up so much after what happened with my case.
[01:10:47]  She's now a school resource officer at an elementary school.
[01:10:50]  Yikes.
[01:10:50]  Yeah.
[01:10:51]  So not a very desirable position from someone that was a detective.
[01:10:56]  No, definitely not.
[01:10:58]  So it comes time where I got to go back to New York a second time.
[01:11:02]  So again, I got to go back to getting permission and doing all this.
[01:11:05]  And I just told my lawyer, I'm like, dude, what are they doing?
[01:11:08]  Like, let's get this thing, you know, in for the hearing.
[01:11:11]  Now, I do think COVID probably pushed it back slightly because my lawyer didn't want to do anything via Zoom or Skype.
[01:11:18]  He wanted to be in person.
[01:11:19]  He's a, you know, a maestro in the courtroom.
[01:11:22]  That's how he does his business and his work.
[01:11:25]  So that probably did have something to do with the delays.
[01:11:28]  But we actually took a risk because the CSI guy we brought down came to the house and he lined up.
[01:11:35]  I'm sure you've seen it on the shows where it shows like the bullet tracings with the red laser beams.
[01:11:40]  He lined up from the wall back to the refrigerator, then back to the corner where I was sitting or standing.
[01:11:47]  And it was perfect.
[01:11:48]  Like everything lined up just like how I said it was.
[01:11:52]  And that was like a big key.
[01:11:53]  That was kind of what my lawyer was like, well, this is what we need.
[01:11:55]  This proves you were where you were when everything happened.
[01:12:00]  And so that was like key.
[01:12:01]  And we had been holding on to that for a while for the Duncan hearing, but it never happened.
[01:12:06]  So after that second trip to New York, we asked the prosecutor if we could come there and show him everything we had.
[01:12:14]  Like, just lay it on the table.
[01:12:16]  And he said, I think you'll be so overwhelmed by what we can do if we take this to trial or to the preliminary, to the Duncan hearing, you won't even want to do it.
[01:12:28]  And he was receptive to that.
[01:12:30]  So we went, me, our investigator, my lawyer, and he said, How often does something like this happen?
[01:12:37]  Not very often.
[01:12:38]  He told me, he said, I don't know that I've ever done this.
[01:12:41]  Because typically in court cases, You're supposed to, each side is supposed to disclose all their evidence, right?
[01:12:49]  Yeah.
[01:12:50]  And that's the thing I think the evidence was there, but with him being new, maybe he wasn't, you know, up to snuff on everything, you know, because the solicitor at this point is the one that's actually going to be trying the case, that's trying to basically put me in jail.
[01:13:04]  That is going to be their job.
[01:13:06]  The solicitor.
[01:13:07]  The solicitor.
[01:13:08]  Is that the same as a prosecutor?
[01:13:09]  Yeah.
[01:13:09]  Yeah.
[01:13:09]  Same thing as a prosecutor.
[01:13:11]  He's the one that's going to be trying to do this.
[01:13:13]  And who is this guy, a known guy, like a popular, like a well known guy?
[01:13:17]  This guy here was actually a recently promoted guy.
[01:13:22]  So he was pretty new.
[01:13:24]  And I'll say the hats off to him for being receptive to this because the first guy that was on it, I guarantee you, if we'd offered that to him, he wouldn't have taken it.
[01:13:32]  He had been around for a while.
[01:13:33]  He kind of had a reputation of being, you know, a hard baller.
[01:13:37]  And I don't think he would have taken it.
[01:13:39]  This guy being new, I think he was receptive to the idea.
[01:13:43]  And maybe he looked at it and seen that things weren't adding up.
[01:13:46]  You know, I don't know his reasoning.
[01:13:48]  You know, I never got to actually.
[01:13:49]  Speak with him one on one.
[01:13:51]  But when he was receptive to it, we flew down the CSI guy from New York.
[01:13:55]  And again, every time he flies down, like, I'm having to pay for that.
[01:13:58]  Right.
[01:13:58]  Every time he comes out to the house, I'm having to pay for that.
[01:14:01]  And so it's just the bill is steady racking up.
[01:14:04]  And so he comes in, we take our investigator, my attorney, and then the forensics guy, and we go to the police station and we play a video.
[01:14:13]  And the video was a PowerPoint of him saying, okay, well, this is every reason that they said they were charging him.
[01:14:19]  Like, one of the first reasons was, you know, Mr. Williamson said there was a struggle, but we've seen no signs of a struggle anywhere in the house.
[01:14:28]  So, the first arriving officer that comes in that day, they freeze frame a photo of the kitchen when he goes in.
[01:14:35]  You see a shot glass knocked over on the floor and he zooms in on it with an arrow.
[01:14:40]  Then you see like a Manhattan, like a rocks glass, you know, something you drink whiskey out of, pretty heavy.
[01:14:46]  It's knocked over in the corner.
[01:14:48]  And then there's some other stuff moved around on the stove.
[01:14:51]  So, obviously, that looks to be signs of a struggle to a knocked over shot glass on the floor.
[01:14:55]  Knocked over one on the counter.
[01:14:57]  Then he goes and does a slideshow about the blood that I was explaining to you earlier, where they said their reasoning was, you know, there was no blood transfer on him.
[01:15:05]  Well, he scientifically breaks down with tests that have been done, actual studies of, you know, sometimes there's not even blood transfer on bare skin, let alone coming through three layers of clothes.
[01:15:17]  So there's not going to always be blood transfer.
[01:15:20]  And then the last one was obviously the angle of the bullets.
[01:15:23]  He was talking about, you know, how I was standing.
[01:15:25]  If the guy's in a crouch position, Then it is going to have that type of angle to it.
[01:15:31]  And then, of course, he brings up the fact that, you know, the guy was on steroids.
[01:15:35]  He was three times illegal lenten alcohol and on prescription medication for diagnosed PTSD.
[01:15:43]  And at that point, you know, you could tell that they were taking the information in.
[01:15:46]  They weren't just like, you know, blowing it off, not paying any attention, looking at the ceiling.
[01:15:51]  They were taking it in.
[01:15:52]  Yeah.
[01:15:53]  So the next step is they go and see what evidence they have on me.
[01:15:57]  Well, I'm not allowed to go in there because it's their evidence room.
[01:16:00]  And obviously, that's kind of like a, Breach or whatever.
[01:16:03]  So I got to go.
[01:16:03]  Your lawyer is able to go in that?
[01:16:04]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:16:05]  My lawyers could.
[01:16:06]  I just couldn't.
[01:16:07]  So at this point, they're coming to my house next.
[01:16:09]  They're actually coming to my home.
[01:16:11]  So there's like.
[01:16:12]  So during this whole thing, you're living in the same house?
[01:16:14]  Yeah.
[01:16:14]  I never moved.
[01:16:14]  Oh my God.
[01:16:15]  Never changed refrigerators or nothing.
[01:16:17]  You still live there now?
[01:16:18]  Yeah.
[01:16:18]  I still live there now.
[01:16:20]  I had.
[01:16:21]  Damn.
[01:16:21]  Don't ask me why, but I had this deep feeling that somewhere down the line, that kitchen could really come into play.
[01:16:30]  Don't tell me it's your background for your podcast.
[01:16:33]  No, no, no, no.
[01:16:34]  Fuck no.
[01:16:34]  Fuck no.
[01:16:36]  Not a lot of people even knew this happened.
[01:16:38]  Like for years, nobody that I had done podcasts with even knew this was going on.
[01:16:42]  Okay.
[01:16:42]  And when I started telling them, they were like, holy shit.
[01:16:44]  Actually, that would be pretty appropriate.
[01:16:47]  But that was kind of the idea, you know, when I was able to tell this story, if I could kind of get some legs up under my own program, then when I could tell my story, more people would look at it.
[01:16:57]  Because I think it's important because you don't really see guys like middle aged, blue collar workers, you know, gun carrying, law abiding citizens wind up in this kind of situation.
[01:17:10]  And it's just like, it's not the norm.
[01:17:12]  And then I was arrested.
[01:17:14]  You know, it's all on the news.
[01:17:15]  People are always making assumptions, especially when it came in the middle of like a separation.
[01:17:20]  I heard stories from, oh, he came in from work and caught his wife with somebody.
[01:17:25]  I'm like, well, start with, we didn't even live together.
[01:17:28]  I was out of work because I had my back surgery.
[01:17:30]  So, like, you know, these shit y'all are coming up with is fucking insane.
[01:17:35]  But it was just, you know, you had to deal with a lot.
[01:17:38]  Like, it was a lot of pressure for this whole time.
[01:17:41]  This is going on.
[01:17:41]  This just got dropped in November.
[01:17:43]  So, this is like, Four years and six, seven months of not knowing, not knowing what's going on.
[01:17:49]  Like, as in two months ago, yes, as in the end of October of last year.
[01:17:54]  So, you're talking four years and nine months.
[01:17:57]  But that's uh, this the story that I was telling you is kind of why it got dropped because I leave the police station, I go back to my house.
[01:18:06]  My investigator is the first one to get here, and I ask him, I'm like, So, what did they show you in the evidence room?
[01:18:10]  And he's like, Nothing.
[01:18:12]  I'm like, What?
[01:18:13]  And he's like, Yeah, there's nothing there.
[01:18:15]  And so they come, they come in.
[01:18:18]  I go over the scenario that I played out with you here tonight.
[01:18:21]  You know, they're looking, they see it, and seeing that kitchen kind of really puts it in context because I can explain it to you.
[01:18:28]  But actually standing in it and seeing it is a whole different ballgame.
[01:18:33]  And, you know, you can tell because the way he fell, he was a little bit away from the refrigerator.
[01:18:39]  So if you figure you picture he's standing him up on his feet, he's right in front of me.
[01:18:44]  I'm automatically backed up into the corner.
[01:18:47]  If he was any further back, He'd have been laying up against the refrigerator when he fell.
[01:18:51]  So it kind of proved everything.
[01:18:53]  Once they seen it, I think it really kind of put it in perspective for them.
[01:18:56]  And it was still a couple months after that before we finally got a drop.
[01:19:00]  But I did get the call.
[01:19:01]  My lawyer called me one day.
[01:19:02]  I was at work and he's like, you know, what's going on?
[01:19:06]  I'm like, you know, nothing much at work.
[01:19:08]  And he's like, well, how does it feel to be a free man?
[01:19:10]  And I was like, what?
[01:19:12]  And he's like, yeah, you're free.
[01:19:13]  Charges are dropped.
[01:19:14]  Case is dismissed.
[01:19:15]  And I was just like, holy shit.
[01:19:18]  I mean, it was the best feeling I'd ever had in my life for that to be lifted off me, bro.
[01:19:22]  You have no.
[01:19:24]  Idea.
[01:19:25]  Wow, man.
[01:19:26]  Yeah.
[01:19:26]  What did that feel like?
[01:19:28]  And like the world had been lifted off of me.
[01:19:30]  And I mean, like, you know, I'm a very outgoing person anyway.
[01:19:34]  Like, I like to talk.
[01:19:35]  I like to go out.
[01:19:36]  I like to communicate, socialize.
[01:19:37]  So, for like to put somebody like me on house arrest is damn near a prison in itself.
[01:19:43]  I mean, it was awful, which it was part of the reason why I started doing the podcast because it gives you an availability to talk to people and conversate.
[01:19:50]  Were you able to talk about this stuff on your podcast?
[01:19:53]  I've never mentioned it on my show at all.
[01:19:55]  Really?
[01:19:55]  Not one time.
[01:19:57]  What kind of stuff did you talk about?
[01:19:59]  What on mine?
[01:19:59]  Yeah.
[01:20:00]  We talked crime.
[01:20:01]  Well, I was thinking of doing like a true crime podcast, but then actually looking around, like everybody apparently decided to do that during COVID.
[01:20:09]  So I was like, well, that's going to be hard to gain fucking traction.
[01:20:12]  Saturated market.
[01:20:13]  Yeah, very saturated market.
[01:20:15]  So I put an entertainment on the end.
[01:20:17]  So I called it crime and entertainment.
[01:20:19]  And I've been able to talk to so many people, man.
[01:20:22]  I've had Tommy Chong on the show.
[01:20:25]  I've had Tom Sizemore from Heat and Natural Born Killers on the show.
[01:20:30]  You had him on there?
[01:20:31]  Yeah, yeah, Tommy Joey.
[01:20:32]  Wow.
[01:20:33]  Yeah, it's crazy.
[01:20:34]  A lot of the guys that you've interviewed, like Tim McBride, Larry Mazza, Jeff Turner.
[01:20:40]  Oh, yeah, we've interviewed a lot of the same people.
[01:20:43]  Matter of fact, one of the big cases that I really am starting to kind of do more of now, I didn't want to let those get out there too early because I had such a passion when talking about it was wrongful convictions.
[01:20:55]  And you just interviewed, or not just, but you interviewed a guy named Jeffrey Deskovic from New York.
[01:21:01]  And I just had him on the show.
[01:21:03]  And like, there's no way or no.
[01:21:05]  Probably nobody's going to learn law faster than somebody's being accused of something they didn't do.
[01:21:10]  And so that's really kind of what started the idea for the podcast.
[01:21:13]  Cause I was like listening to wrongful conviction podcasts.
[01:21:16]  That's where I heard that one.
[01:21:18]  And then that kind of led me into like the true crime aspect of everything.
[01:21:21]  But, you know, I'm real big on wrongful conviction cases because it happens way more than people realize.
[01:21:28]  And luckily, I was fortunate enough to not have to be in jail this whole time because I know that happens with some people.
[01:21:34]  But, you know, imagine being in jail.
[01:21:37]  For five years for something that you didn't do, or seven, Jeffrey was in there for what 16 years?
[01:21:42]  Yeah.
[01:21:43]  I mean, for something that you did not do.
[01:21:46]  And I mean, I felt a portion of that.
[01:21:48]  I don't even want to try to put myself in his position.
[01:21:51]  There's people on death row.
[01:21:52]  Yeah.
[01:21:53]  That get exonerated.
[01:21:54]  Yeah.
[01:21:54]  For DNA being botched.
[01:21:56]  And he made a great point.
[01:21:58]  And it was on your show.
[01:21:59]  And I'll bring it up.
[01:22:00]  He made a point.
[01:22:00]  He was like, you know, the percentages of people that are incarcerated, I think he said it was like 12 or 13%.
[01:22:06]  He said, so if you put that on planes, Like I said, only 12 or 13% of the population?
[01:22:12]  Yeah, of the prison population are innocent.
[01:22:14]  Wow.
[01:22:15]  So, you know, if you tell somebody, well, you know, plane crashes, you got a 13% chance of your plane crashing.
[01:22:21]  You think you're going to see a penny of people flying?
[01:22:23]  Right.
[01:22:24]  Absolutely.
[01:22:24]  But people don't pay that no attention because a lot of times it's largely kept under the radar, it's largely kept quiet.
[01:22:31]  Prosecutors are immune to anything.
[01:22:34]  So, like, they have prosecutorial immunity.
[01:22:36]  And again, I want to reiterate in my case, the prosecutor that, you know, finally put this thing to bed.
[01:22:41]  I don't think he had any.
[01:22:43]  Well, I know he didn't because he was the one that put it all together.
[01:22:45]  No malicious intent to begin with.
[01:22:48]  And I don't know if the detective was malicious or just not seeing it with a full set of eyes.
[01:22:54]  I don't really know.
[01:22:56]  But to me, it was clear cut, man, from the jump of you had a guy that was pissed off that he was getting booted out of a relationship and he was pissed.
[01:23:05]  And nine times out of 10, I'm sure anybody that you tell the story to can attest if somebody's not where they're supposed to be and something happens, nine times out of 10, they're the one with the problem.
[01:23:16]  And it was just like, to me, I didn't see how it took.
[01:23:20]  Four and a half years to get to that point.
[01:23:22]  Unfortunately, it did, but now, like, I really want to become an advocate, especially for people that have been wrongfully charged or wrongfully convicted, because it's costed me a shitload of money, man.
[01:23:33]  I'm probably, I'm probably like knocking on the door like a hundred grand in the hole.

=== Defense Evidence Stats (08:12) ===

[01:23:38]  I was fired, like I said, for my first job.
[01:23:40]  Were you not able to get any of those expenses back?
[01:23:43]  Not so far.
[01:23:45]  Do you guys have any plans to try to sue the state for your expenses?
[01:23:48]  I'm trying, but see, the thing is, they're slick in the way that, You know, it works because the dismissal letter is wrote as such.
[01:23:58]  So it goes, you know, while there was, what's the word, the wording they use?
[01:24:04]  While there was a reason to charge, they didn't think it would be sufficient evidence to take the trial.
[01:24:10]  So that makes it difficult for somebody to sue because with them being enough evidence they think to charge, there's a wording for it that's escaping my mind right now.
[01:24:22]  I can't even think of it for some reason, but because they wrote it that way, It makes it difficult because being malicious isn't necessarily the same thing as being incompetent.
[01:24:32]  Right.
[01:24:33]  So it makes it a little harder.
[01:24:35]  Now, you know, obviously I'm still looking into the possibility of being able to recoup some of that because at the end of the day, it's like I've had to spend a hundred grand on a lawyer.
[01:24:45]  I've had to, you know, I lost that job.
[01:24:48]  I got a second job.
[01:24:50]  It happened so quickly, you know, with me getting fired and getting to that job.
[01:24:55]  That guy didn't run my background.
[01:24:56]  I think he thought coming from that company, you know, there's no reason to.
[01:25:01]  And so I get hired at a sign company like Weldon for, you know, to make fabricate signs.
[01:25:06]  Going good, you know, decent money.
[01:25:08]  They never asked me about, you know, why I was, you know, if I got fired or whatever.
[01:25:12]  Matter of fact, I don't even think I told them I got fired.
[01:25:13]  I think I told them I quit.
[01:25:16]  But we're like six months into this job.
[01:25:18]  Right.
[01:25:19]  And I did tell them that I used to work there.
[01:25:21]  So they come over and was like, oh, we just got a big contract with your former employer.
[01:25:24]  We're doing a sign out there.
[01:25:25]  I'm like, who?
[01:25:26]  It was like, NuCorp.
[01:25:27]  I was like, fuck.
[01:25:30]  I'm like, of all the places to get a sign and sure as shit.
[01:25:34]  They went out there.
[01:25:36]  One of the guys that worked there mentioned my name.
[01:25:38]  Oh, you know, we got a guy that works at our place that used to work out here.
[01:25:40]  What was his name?
[01:25:41]  Wade.
[01:25:41]  Oh, yeah, I remember him.
[01:25:42]  Whatever happened with that case?
[01:25:43]  Is he beat it?
[01:25:44]  Case?
[01:25:45]  What case?
[01:25:45]  Oh, he killed somebody.
[01:25:47]  And so, like, it started traveling around the job.
[01:25:51]  I know the boss knew because when we would do jobs for like Air Force bases and stuff like that, you had to have your background run before you could go on there.
[01:26:00]  And whenever those come up, like, they never asked me to go to them, but everywhere else they would ask me to go.
[01:26:06]  So I knew he knew.
[01:26:08]  Don't they wipe that shit off your record?
[01:26:10]  It is now.
[01:26:10]  Okay.
[01:26:11]  At the time, it wasn't.
[01:26:12]  It was on there as pending.
[01:26:13]  Right.
[01:26:14]  Yeah, because the first job I went to to try to get after that, I interviewed and I told them everything up front, everything that was going on.
[01:26:21]  Do you know any of the stats on the number of deaths that happen every year from self defense and what happens to the people that end up doing the killings because of self defense?
[01:26:35]  Like, how many of them get stuck in this loop?
[01:26:37]  That you got stuck in?
[01:26:38]  Oh, I can't imagine.
[01:26:39]  I've actually never looked into those numbers, but I would imagine it's staggering because it's not a lot and it affects everybody else.
[01:26:47]  Like I said, I had a kid in middle school, and even now, to like every time he goes to a new grade or whatever, somebody in there because of this community that we're in, there's all kinds of people that are, you know, kind of a melting pot.
[01:26:58]  Nobody's from there, but everybody knows everything because of social media and Facebook groups from the neighborhood.
[01:27:04]  Somebody go, Oh, yeah, ain't your dad that got it shot somebody?
[01:27:07]  And so he has to deal with it.
[01:27:09]  You know, obviously, there's stigma with, you know, my daughter.
[01:27:11]  She was a senior in high school when it happened.
[01:27:14]  So, like, literally a month or two after this, she graduated high school.
[01:27:18]  So it kind of, You know, had a black cloud hanging over that.
[01:27:21]  And during the middle of this, and this is actually really blow your mind, kind of how about how this county works.
[01:27:28]  My neighbor's neighbor, so two houses down, had a pit bull and it escaped and got into my yard and really messed up my husky that I told you I had.
[01:27:40]  And we had to take him to the vet.
[01:27:42]  Well, this dog had apparently bit a couple other people in the neighborhood.
[01:27:45]  He had actually even bit my son about a year prior, but it was a very light bite.
[01:27:49]  They were playing basketball in the yard.
[01:27:52]  And it was almost to what you maybe could brush off as playful, but it did break the skin.
[01:27:57]  He didn't like maul him or anything, but I told him, I was like, all right, well, you know, don't go back down there and fuck around with that dog.
[01:28:02]  So when he jumps to fence and attacks the dog, this time I'm pissed because it was like, you know, a full on just neglect on their part of keeping that animal locked up.
[01:28:12]  Well, somehow or another, the news got wind of it and they contacted me on Facebook.
[01:28:17]  I guess somebody told them and they contacted me on Facebook and was like, hey, we want to do a story on this dog because there's a lot of kids in your neighborhood and it could be potentially dangerous.
[01:28:25]  And I'm like, Well, absolutely.
[01:28:26]  I don't have a problem with it.
[01:28:27]  I said, but I'm not going to do it because I wasn't home.
[01:28:30]  I said, you can interview my daughter.
[01:28:32]  So they come out, they interview my daughter, and the article gets posted in the Facebook page for my neighborhood.
[01:28:39]  Well, I'm looking at it, and I figured something would come up if somebody would make the connection.
[01:28:43]  And this lady goes, I'm not sure how, but I'm pretty sure this girl is somehow connected to the guy that shot a man in his house and then claimed self defense and then went and hired one of the best defense attorneys in South Carolina.
[01:28:57]  And he says, he says it's self defense, but the evidence paints a very different story.
[01:29:01]  And I'm just like, who the fuck is this?
[01:29:03]  Well, the more I learn, I'm not saying anything.
[01:29:05]  I'm just reading these comments as they're getting posted.
[01:29:08]  It's a public defender in the county that I work, that I live in.
[01:29:14]  She works for the public defender's office.
[01:29:16]  Wow.
[01:29:16]  And she's on a public forum like this saying this.
[01:29:18]  And somebody even said, you know, this is not very professional.
[01:29:21]  Like, I don't know if I'd be saying this.
[01:29:22]  And she goes, well, maybe it's not the place to disclose these things, but I've had a few cocktails and it is what it is.
[01:29:29]  This was before the trial.
[01:29:30]  So I'm like, if we'd have gone to trial and, like, you know, thank God it didn't happen this way, but if I'd have gone to trial and been found guilty, like, that would be grounds for a mistrial.
[01:29:40]  You know, she's putting it out already that, you know, well, he says it's self defense, but there's evidence points otherwise.
[01:29:46]  And I don't know what fucking evidence she was looking at because that's the thing is what they have right now when they drop this at the end of October is exactly what they had the day it happened.
[01:29:57]  Nothing else has been collected, nothing else has been, you know, taken in.
[01:30:02]  All the testimonies that they got from people that were involved that night, which weren't really many, me and the other guy.
[01:30:08]  I mean, he testified exactly what the guy told him earlier tonight.
[01:30:12]  Oh, I'm looking for Chip because I'm going to kill him.
[01:30:14]  And as a matter of fact, because it happened so early in the morning, when they went to talk to him that morning, he tells them, I heard it on the recording of it, he tells them straight up, he's like, Listen, man, I go ahead and tell you, I'm still drunk.
[01:30:26]  Like, as he's talking to the cop, and they never came back to him.
[01:30:30]  Wow.
[01:30:31]  Never come back to him to get another interview.
[01:30:33]  And he told them, he That were the first time he saw them earlier in that day when he came to your house.
[01:30:37]  I'm looking for a chip because I'm going to kill him.
[01:30:38]  Yeah.
[01:30:39]  Told him that.
[01:30:40]  All that.
[01:30:41]  And they still decided to press forward.
[01:30:43]  I don't know what they seen.
[01:30:44]  I don't know what it was, but.
[01:30:46]  Well, the reason I asked about the stats, if you were familiar with any of the stats, is because every case like this I've heard of, something similar, not as to the extreme where they tried to charge you with first degree murder and went so far to do it.
[01:31:01]  But the other thing that comes to mind is I don't know if you're familiar with Gucci Man, the rapper.
[01:31:06]  He went through the same thing where he was sitting in his house with some prostitute or something, and two guys busted in the door with guns trying to rob him for his jewelry or whatever.
[01:31:14]  And he literally had a gun on him and just shot them both, killing one of them.
[01:31:18]  And he had to fight the case for a while and he ended up beating it.
[01:31:21]  Yeah.
[01:31:21]  And I mean, yeah, but they tried to charge him with first degree murder.
[01:31:24]  Yeah.
[01:31:24]  Getting robbed.
[01:31:25]  And I think, I think the baby had something go on like that, similar to that, too.
[01:31:29]  The rapper, Little Baby.
[01:31:31]  Yeah.
[01:31:31]  I'm not familiar with his, but yeah, I did hear about that.
[01:31:33]  Yeah.
[01:31:34]  Yeah.
[01:31:34]  I mean, I, trust me, man, I looked up all these self defense cases and like I got kind of an expert on, you know, like what qualifies as self defense, what, you know, cuts it off.
[01:31:45]  So like you can't initiate a fight and then start losing.
[01:31:48]  And then shoot the guy because then you can't claim self defense.

=== Keeping That Fridge Safe (03:10) ===

[01:31:51]  So, like, if wait, wait, say that again.
[01:31:53]  So, like, if me and you're at a bar, right?
[01:31:54]  Yeah.
[01:31:55]  And I jump on you and, you know, start hitting you.
[01:31:57]  You start it.
[01:31:58]  And then you start reversing it and getting the better of me and start whipping my ass.
[01:32:02]  I can't pull out a knife or a gun or anything and kill you because once you start something and initiate it, you lose the right to self defense.
[01:32:09]  So, that's an interesting thing for your case, though.
[01:32:12]  How could they have said, how could they have proven that you didn't start that?
[01:32:16]  Even though he was bigger than you and coming at you, how I'm curious.
[01:32:20]  How come they didn't try to come up with something that said, oh, well, Chip could have easily started this?
[01:32:26]  And maybe they were planning on it.
[01:32:27]  I don't know.
[01:32:28]  But I mean, at the end of the day, there wasn't anybody else to get a story from.
[01:32:32]  Yeah.
[01:32:32]  So they had to, I mean, take my word.
[01:32:34]  But I mean, again, all the evidence backed up what I said.
[01:32:38]  Right.
[01:32:39]  You know, everything lined up perfectly.
[01:32:41]  And like I said before, I was in a fortunate position where I didn't need to lie.
[01:32:45]  I didn't need to say, okay, well, I need to say I was standing here or over here.
[01:32:49]  I'd done this or I'd done that.
[01:32:50]  Like everything that happened played out just the way it.
[01:32:53]  It really happened in real time.
[01:32:55]  And, you know, luckily everything worked out in the end.
[01:32:58]  But I mean, it's just the lasting impact of this is like, you know, I wake up every day for years.
[01:33:03]  I woke up every day feeling like there's a piano hanging over your head.
[01:33:07]  Cause, you know, life in prison, even if it was 25 to life, 25 years, I'm probably going to die in there.
[01:33:13]  Like, you know, they're not going to give you parole.
[01:33:15]  And so it's like there's like a piano just hanging over your head every day, not knowing.
[01:33:19]  It's so hard to focus on anything in the future because you don't know if you're going to have a future.
[01:33:24]  You don't know what's going to go on.
[01:33:26]  And, you know, We had contemplated moving.
[01:33:29]  We really did.
[01:33:30]  But then, you know, there's a lot of stuff with that.
[01:33:32]  And then, if you know, if you got to come back to do anything as far as court or talk with the lawyers, that could be, you know, a little bit more aggravating to deal with.
[01:33:40]  So we decided to stay.
[01:33:41]  And, you know, I'm in the same house and same fridge.
[01:33:44]  Yeah.
[01:33:44]  Same.
[01:33:45]  Oh, I kept that fridge.
[01:33:46]  I wasn't leaving that fucking fridge.
[01:33:47]  I knew at some point that fridge might come into play.
[01:33:51]  I'm glad you kept the fridge.
[01:33:52]  Yeah.
[01:33:52]  It's still there now.
[01:33:53]  I might replace it now and then everything's over.
[01:33:55]  But I mean, it still works.
[01:33:56]  Never get rid of it.
[01:33:57]  Yeah.
[01:33:58]  I mean, it's like I said, I just had a feeling that a lot of that stuff was going to come into play.
[01:34:04]  And it did.
[01:34:05]  And, you know, the crazy thing was like when they gave me Bond that first time, all they really did was make me like a built in babysitter for the neighborhood for like a month because everybody knew that I was home and everybody that knew me and like knew me personally would send their kids over there because this was like right after the summer.
[01:34:24]  So they would send their kids to my house to hang out all during the day because they knew I wasn't, you know, I couldn't leave the house.
[01:34:28]  Like, well, you can go over there.
[01:34:29]  I know his dad's home.
[01:34:30]  So it was like, you know, the ones that knew me knew what happened, but the other ones that made their assumptions, I mean, they still do it.
[01:34:38]  Like, even to this day, if somebody hears a loud bang or something like that on the community Facebook, you'll see them say, Oh, yeah, probably another gunshot.
[01:34:46]  Was probably the neighborhoods there.
[01:34:48]  You know, they had a shooting there, and somehow or another, my name always gets brought up.
[01:34:51]  And one person even said one time, he's like, Yeah, I remember when that happened.
[01:34:55]  I think it had something to do with a dog.
[01:34:57]  And they related it to the dog situation, which was totally separate.

=== Gun Laws And Riots (14:45) ===

[01:35:01]  So, I don't even respond to half of that shit half the time.
[01:35:04]  I mean, I just keep my mouth shut because it's, you know, if people are going to make the assumptions, they're going to make the assumptions.
[01:35:10]  But I knew at one point in time I would be able to sit down and tell my story, which is kind of like what I'm doing now with you and Matt.
[01:35:18]  And it feels good to finally get my side out there because you have to be quiet, like while all this is going on.
[01:35:23]  You can't, you want to defend yourself, but if you go out there and, you know, you don't want to say something in the heat of, you know, anger and then it looks bad on you, oh, look at this guy, how mad he's getting.
[01:35:32]  You know, he must have done it.
[01:35:34]  And so you have to really tread water and be careful.
[01:35:37]  But at the same time, now that it's over with, I want to bring light to how easy an average guy can find herself in this situation from just a detective not looking at things the way it should be looked at.
[01:35:48]  Yeah.
[01:35:49]  I mean, I would be lying if I said I hadn't thought about that situation.
[01:35:52]  Like, if it ever happened to me, like, what would you do?
[01:35:54]  Like, that's something you want to know.
[01:35:55]  You want to know, like, how you're supposed to handle it.
[01:35:58]  Like, what do you.
[01:35:59]  And the scary part is, is once the cops get involved, you don't know, you're, it's all out of your control.
[01:36:03]  Your freedom is gone.
[01:36:06]  And you don't know what's going to.
[01:36:07]  What's going to happen?
[01:36:08]  And I've heard so many stories about, you know, the misconduct behind the scenes with police departments and sheriff's departments and the prosecutors.
[01:36:18]  And it's not pretty.
[01:36:20]  It's scary because there's so many things that can go wrong.
[01:36:24]  Yeah.
[01:36:24]  And that's, you know, we spoke about this earlier.
[01:36:27]  That's the fucked up part about this whole thing is that's how they move up in their job.
[01:36:31]  Yeah.
[01:36:31]  Like, you know, to me, to move up in my job, I put out good products and we can sell more steel and stuff like that.
[01:36:37]  But for them, They put people in jail.
[01:36:40]  And now I'm not one of these people to say every single person in prison is innocent.
[01:36:43]  I know there's some people that definitely deserve to be there.
[01:36:46]  I mean, the guy I was in there with, he set his sister on fire.
[01:36:48]  So, yeah, he probably needs to go to jail for a little while.
[01:36:51]  But there's a lot of people in there that don't deserve to be in there.
[01:36:53]  And I can see easily somebody getting jammed up and charged with something that maybe they had absolutely nothing to do with, but they don't have the money to hire a lawyer to fight it.
[01:37:03]  So they wind up having to take a plea deal.
[01:37:06]  Then they go, they do their time, they come out.
[01:37:08]  Now they're a felon, they can't get a job.
[01:37:10]  So then they really have to do something criminal.
[01:37:13]  And then they get caught again.
[01:37:14]  It becomes a vicious cycle.
[01:37:16]  And the prosecutors don't care because at the end of every night, they can go home.
[01:37:21]  They go home to their beds.
[01:37:22]  And even if it's brought to light that maybe they've done something wrong, they still don't give a shit because they got prosecutorial immunity.
[01:37:29]  Right.
[01:37:29]  You know, it doesn't matter.
[01:37:30]  I mean, they'll give you 100 years and, you know, you get that.
[01:37:33]  That's a good for them.
[01:37:34]  That's a check mark in their box.
[01:37:35]  That's something they can add on their resume.
[01:37:37]  I took this guy off the street.
[01:37:39]  Doesn't matter if he's guilty or innocent.
[01:37:40]  Well, I'm thankful for you coming and telling the story, man.
[01:37:42]  Yeah.
[01:37:43]  Yeah.
[01:37:43]  I appreciate it.
[01:37:44]  And there's a, There's an insurance that I really need to figure out how I can be the spokesperson for these guys.
[01:37:50]  It was called Carry Guard.
[01:37:52]  And it's basically like so if you pay like 20 bucks a month and you find yourself in this situation, 20 bucks might get you 50 grand worth of coverage.
[01:38:00]  For like an attorney?
[01:38:02]  Yeah.
[01:38:02]  They'll bond you out.
[01:38:04]  Then they'll get you an attorney.
[01:38:05]  You get like 30% of it up front, I think is what it is.
[01:38:09]  You get enough to get you out and get the attorney started on the case.
[01:38:12]  Then if you win it, then the rest of it is paid to the attorney to pay off your legal.
[01:38:17]  Now, obviously, if it goes above 50, then you're responsible for that.
[01:38:20]  But there's different tiers of it.
[01:38:21]  You know, you can pay 40 for, you know, 70,000 or whatever on up the ladder.
[01:38:26]  Is this it?
[01:38:27]  This is a partnership with the NRA and this company called Carry Guard.
[01:38:33]  I need to be there for the NRA Carry Guard gives you the protection you need if you're ever involved in a self defense shooting.
[01:38:42]  Once you sign up for the NRA Carry Guard insurance, you'll have 24 7, 365 access to the members only hotline for incident reporting and emergency assistance.
[01:38:56]  You got some good fucking eyes.
[01:38:57]  I can't read that from sitting over here.
[01:39:01]  They must make a shitload of money with that.
[01:39:02]  Yeah.
[01:39:03]  Well, it's like if you have them and then you were in my situation, you're instructed to, like, if so, if I would have had it, I'd have called 911 and be like, My name is Wade Williamson.
[01:39:13]  I just shot somebody.
[01:39:14]  Come to this address and hang up the phone.
[01:39:15]  That's all you're supposed to say.
[01:39:17]  And then they handle everything else.
[01:39:19]  And like I said, they only pay it in full, obviously, if you beat the case.
[01:39:22]  So if you don't beat it, then you don't get all the money of it.
[01:39:26]  Isn't there a situation where, like, say, if you're in your car in traffic, right?
[01:39:32]  And you come and there's a guy with road rage who is like, Beating down your window, like trying to get into your car, like trying to open your door, and you have a gun concealed in your car.
[01:39:41]  I don't think you need to.
[01:39:42]  Do you need to have a CWP to carry it in your car?
[01:39:45]  No.
[01:39:45]  Well, you, you, I know it's different per state, but I think the ruling is a CWP, you can have it anywhere.
[01:39:52]  Right.
[01:39:53]  If you don't have a CWP, it either needs to be in your glove box, in a concealed area in the car console.
[01:39:58]  Yeah.
[01:39:58]  Right, right, right.
[01:39:59]  So if I'm in traffic and there's this guy who I cut him off or whatever, and he's fucking getting out of his car and he's trying to open my door, beat down my window.
[01:40:07]  If he hasn't got in yet, from what I've heard, is that you're supposed to call 911 first.
[01:40:13]  Be like, look, this guy's trying to get in my car.
[01:40:15]  If he breaks my window, I'm going to shoot him and kill him.
[01:40:19]  Do you know if that's true?
[01:40:22]  I know the castle law protects you at your home.
[01:40:26]  At your house, yeah.
[01:40:27]  And it extends to your car and work.
[01:40:29]  Oh, does it?
[01:40:30]  To your place of employment.
[01:40:31]  Yeah.
[01:40:31]  The castle doctrine is for your home, it's for your vehicle and your place of employment.
[01:40:36]  And see, that's the thing people always have these things of, oh, you need to call 911 if it's that.
[01:40:41]  Sometimes you don't have fucking time to call 911.
[01:40:43]  I mean, this shit just goes off quick.
[01:40:46]  Like you said, if somebody's up there beating on your window, you're not going to have time to make a phone call.
[01:40:51]  Yeah.
[01:40:51]  I mean, it's just something you're going to have to do.
[01:40:54]  And I've followed so many cases like this since mine.
[01:40:58]  For instance, the kid, what's his name?
[01:41:01]  That assault rifle, the one that he used, the assault rifle, the young dude.
[01:41:04]  The baby?
[01:41:05]  No, when the riots.
[01:41:07]  Oh, in the riots.
[01:41:08]  Yeah.
[01:41:09]  What was his name again?
[01:41:11]  Kyle.
[01:41:11]  Yeah.
[01:41:12]  Kyle Rittenhouse.
[01:41:13]  Kyle Rittenhouse.
[01:41:13]  Yeah.
[01:41:14]  Yeah.
[01:41:14]  So, like, I mean, I followed that one like real closely because, like, anything big like that in the news, like, my eyes were kind of glued to see how juries were going to look at it and stuff like that.
[01:41:23]  And I mean, you know, I feel as though he was justified in that.
[01:41:26]  I mean, and using it.
[01:41:27]  Now, there's some other ones that, you know, maybe not.
[01:41:29]  Like, there was a one I was looking at where there was like surveillance.
[01:41:33]  The only thing with that one, I feel like, yeah, I've to an extent, I have to like refresh myself on the whole story again.
[01:41:39]  The only weird thing about that is, like, if I'm that kid's parents, why the fuck am I, how old was he?
[01:41:45]  He was young, man.
[01:41:46]  I'm not sending my like 14 year old or 15 year old out to the streets during riots with an AR.
[01:41:52]  I think the basis of it was something along the lines of his family owned a business where all this was going out, so he was there at the business to protect it from looters.
[01:42:05]  I believe now, don't quote me on that, but I think that that was the reason why he was there.
[01:42:09]  He wasn't just out in the street, you know, for the hell of it, right?
[01:42:12]  Yeah, he was actually getting chased down at that point, I think.
[01:42:14]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:42:15]  And like I said, I it's been a minute since I've kind of refreshed the facts on there, but.
[01:42:19]  You know, again, you know, like that, that's where it becomes, it can go from murder to self defense really quick.
[01:42:25]  Because I watched a video where this guy was at a Walmart and like he assaulted this guy and he hit him first.
[01:42:33]  Well, then that guy knocked him down, knocked him on his ass.
[01:42:36]  So when he hit the ground, he pulled out a gun and shot the guy.
[01:42:40]  So that's not self defense because, like I said earlier, he initially knocked him down, right?
[01:42:44]  Yeah, just because he knocked him down.
[01:42:45]  And the guy didn't even look like he was going to continue to jump on him.
[01:42:49]  I mean, it was just, just did it.
[01:42:51]  Did you see?
[01:42:52]  I'm sure you did during the whole riots from George Floyd.
[01:42:56]  At one point, there was a famous photo of this guy and his wife standing in their driveway as these people were marching down.
[01:43:05]  The lady, she had the pistol like this, and the guy was holding the AR with his finger on the trigger.
[01:43:11]  Yeah.
[01:43:12]  Yeah.
[01:43:13]  That's another thing, man.
[01:43:14]  I mean, like the gun laws and everything.
[01:43:15]  You're not allowed to brandish them like that.
[01:43:17]  Yeah.
[01:43:18]  I think there are rules.
[01:43:19]  And a lot of that does go from state to state, too.
[01:43:21]  So, from what I understand, is you're only allowed to pull your gun out when you're about.
[01:43:24]  To use it.
[01:43:24]  Like, if you pull your gun out, you have to use it.
[01:43:26]  You can't just use it as a scare tactic or something like that.
[01:43:30]  Yeah.
[01:43:30]  I mean, I've seen videos online where people like, and I think they do it more for attention, but like they'll be walking around with a damn, you know, AK on their lap or whatever, or around their, you know, strap or whatever.
[01:43:42]  And the cops will be like, you know, what are you doing?
[01:43:43]  But they technically have the right to have it.
[01:43:45]  Oh, yeah.
[01:43:45]  I've seen that.
[01:43:46]  I've seen the guy, have you seen the guy's YouTube channel?
[01:43:48]  Yeah.
[01:43:49]  He's like, I'm going fishing and he's got a fucking machine gun on her.
[01:43:52]  Yeah.
[01:43:52]  And I'm just like, really?
[01:43:53]  I mean, you don't really need it, you know, like that.
[01:43:56]  But, Again, gun laws too.
[01:43:58]  They're trying to outlaw the AK 47.
[01:44:01]  Awesome.
[01:44:01]  Pull up the video.
[01:44:02]  It's on YouTube.
[01:44:03]  There's a guy, I forget what he's called.
[01:44:05]  He's called the Florida fisherman who he goes fishing with guns and he walks like down a public sidewalk, like past a police station with an AK strapped to him or an AR 15 strapped to him on purpose just to see because the cops is so crazy watching it because the cops are just like, they don't know what to do.
[01:44:27]  Yeah.
[01:44:28]  All of a sudden, there's like 13 cops surrounding him, and he's like, What am I doing?
[01:44:32]  At the end of the day, he hasn't done nothing wrong, yeah.
[01:44:34]  And he knows that he knows that law, he's just trolling, yeah.
[01:44:37]  He's trolling, that's exactly what he's doing.
[01:44:39]  He's trolling, yes.
[01:44:40]  The armed fisherman, pull up a video of him real quick.
[01:44:43]  We can see that this one right there, that one right there.
[01:44:47]  I think this is in Tampa, yeah.
[01:44:50]  Full screen it.
[01:44:53]  I can see, I can see why all these cops are coming out.
[01:44:57]  That's this is good.
[01:44:57]  They're not going to show, we're not going to find the one I was looking for.
[01:45:00]  I can see the concern.
[01:45:02]  It's definitely a concern.
[01:45:03]  Like, if you and your kid, if you're like taking your kid for a walk in the park, there's a guy walking on the street with an AK 47.
[01:45:08]  I mean, yeah, I'm going to leave.
[01:45:10]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:45:11]  But it's crazy that there are laws that protect you from walking from the pier to a fishing pond three blocks away in the middle of a city with an AK strapped to you.
[01:45:23]  I mean, it's wild, the gun laws.
[01:45:25]  Yeah.
[01:45:26]  And I actually, you know, once I got arrested, they took my CWP back or I got a letter saying they revoked it.
[01:45:32]  Well, since everything's been expunged.
[01:45:34]  I got it back reinstated.
[01:45:35]  So they were able to give it back to me.
[01:45:37]  And I had to go back to my lawyer's office and get all my guns back because I had to give them all the other guns that I had.
[01:45:43]  That was part of the release, you know, my conditions of the bond.
[01:45:46]  So, like, when everything got dropped, I had to go up there and pick up, like, it was like eight guns out of his office.
[01:45:51]  And he's like, I hope nobody's not looking here going out the front door.
[01:45:55]  And I had to go up there.
[01:45:56]  We were like bringing them out one by one, putting them in the car.
[01:45:59]  But yeah, I was like, I was so nervous touching them, like, for the first time just because I hadn't.
[01:46:05]  Touch one in so long.
[01:46:06]  It was just like, oh shit.
[01:46:07]  And then, of course, like, you know, it's kind of a little bit of PTSD there too.
[01:46:11]  Like, the first time you put your hands on one, because the last time you did, you know, something major happened.
[01:46:16]  And have you like relived that experience at all?
[01:46:18]  Does that moment when you shot him haunt you at all?
[01:46:22]  It does.
[01:46:23]  It does a good bit.
[01:46:25]  And, you know, I still try to look at it through the mindset of, like I said earlier, you know, I didn't kill someone.
[01:46:31]  I killed someone that was trying to kill me.
[01:46:33]  Yeah, for sure.
[01:46:33]  And that's kind of what I have to really keep reiterating to myself.
[01:46:37]  But yeah, it definitely bothers me because, I mean, I did not want that to happen.
[01:46:42]  You know, it's unfortunate that it played out the way it did, but, you know, you can't help it to relive some of those moments.
[01:46:49]  And, Even though it was adrenaline pumping and everything that was going on, some of those images and everything, you know, they're always going to be there.
[01:46:55]  And that's something that even after it's over, everybody's like, oh, well, now you can breathe.
[01:46:59]  Yeah, but, you know, the memories are still there.
[01:47:01]  So it's so much impact on your life.
[01:47:05]  And, you know, like I said, even I don't necessarily know how much it bothers, you know, my son, he says it doesn't bother him, but he's 13.
[01:47:11]  He's not going to tell me if it's bothering him anyway.
[01:47:14]  Right.
[01:47:14]  But I know that he had to deal with it, especially like right after it happened.
[01:47:17]  I mean, it was in that neighborhood.
[01:47:19]  That's like, I don't even know that another murder's ever happened in that neighborhood.
[01:47:23]  I know there's been some suicides, but I don't think anything like that has ever happened.
[01:47:26]  So, of course, they're going to bring that up repetitively every time.
[01:47:29]  So, it's kind of one of those things to where you can't even let it get brushed under the rug.
[01:47:33]  Anytime something happens, it's going to be brought back up again.
[01:47:37]  Yeah, definitely.
[01:47:38]  Yeah.
[01:47:40]  The open carry laws, I think, are pretty good here in Florida.
[01:47:44]  I think you, I mean, you have to have a CWP.
[01:47:47]  I think that's the smart way to do it.
[01:47:49]  I don't know what these laws are in South Carolina, but I know in Texas, anybody can just carry open.
[01:47:53]  I know you have to have any training or whatever, but my, My thought on it has always just been like, look, if you got to take a test to drive a car, you should have to take a test to be able to fucking carry a gun on your waist.
[01:48:02]  Yeah, I agree with that 100%.
[01:48:04]  You should at least put that much effort into understanding how to work the fucking thing and how to use it and understand the laws before that, you know, you're just carrying that thing with you.
[01:48:14]  Well, like mentally, like I said, when it happened, I reverted back to that class because they teach you not only do you have to, like, a little shape of a body or whatever, you got to hit so many rounds in there to pass, at least the one I did.
[01:48:26]  Um, you had to do that, then you do like a written test, and it tells you all kinds of different scenarios of what is legal, what is considered self defense, then what is past a point of self defense.
[01:48:37]  So, all that's things that I think responsible gun owners should want to know.
[01:48:42]  You know, I don't want just any old dude with a gun that's never fired it or never know how to work it and being able to carry it because that is when things that can come dangerous.
[01:48:50]  And they said, even in that thing, what you alluded to earlier, standing in front of his house during the riots with the finger on his trigger of his AR.
[01:48:56]  Yeah, you, I mean, you sneeze, and you're probably gonna blow your wife away, you know.
[01:49:00]  But, like you said earlier, if you pull it, they tell you do not pull your gun under any circumstances unless you're going to use it.
[01:49:08]  Because if you pull it out and then second guess or wait, that's when you could get it taken from you or any other things can happen.
[01:49:17]  So they say if you're going to go to that point to where you pull it out of wherever you got it at, you better be ready to use it.
[01:49:24]  Because at that point, obviously, whoever you're pulling it on is going to see it and they're going to try to take it from you and use it on you.
[01:49:31]  Right.
[01:49:31]  So that's what they instill in you in those classes.
[01:49:33]  So I definitely think it's logical, and probably anybody that carries one should probably go take that class.
[01:49:41]  I agree, man.
[01:49:42]  Thank you again for coming, man.
[01:49:43]  Lots of valuable information and incredible fucking story.

=== Therapeutic Documentary Push (01:43) ===

[01:49:46]  I'm grateful for you being here and telling it to everyone.
[01:49:49]  Tell everyone that is listening and watching where they can find your podcast and whatever else you're doing.
[01:49:53]  Absolutely.
[01:49:54]  We're a crime and entertainment.
[01:49:56]  We're on YouTube, crime and entertainment.
[01:49:58]  We're on all the audio platforms as well.
[01:50:00]  So Spotify, Apple, Google, Stitcher.
[01:50:03]  All that good stuff.
[01:50:04]  I'm trying in the works to get a documentary made about this to really open the eyes of just how easy this could happen.
[01:50:12]  Because I think it's just something that happens so quick that really turned my world upside down.
[01:50:17]  That, you know, as I start researching, it's happened to quite a few people, but people just don't realize.
[01:50:22]  And I don't think they are aware of how often it happens.
[01:50:27]  Because it's not like, yeah, it's not like, you know, every single day, but it's enough to where, you know, you don't understand like what we've talked about here today, the impact it has.
[01:50:34]  So we're going to try to put together a documentary, me and some of the guys that I've worked with.
[01:50:39]  From New York, and hopefully that's coming.
[01:50:41]  I've had a few people reach out to me about writing a book on it.
[01:50:44]  So we'll see where it goes.
[01:50:46]  But again, to go and having to do all this again, it's reliving it some, but it's also therapeutic because I think it's good to talk about stuff and get it out.
[01:50:56]  So at the same time, you do have to relive a few moments, but it's also therapeutic.
[01:51:03]  But just to help get the word out, I think we're going to really try to push the documentary out to do that.
[01:51:07]  So I don't have a timetable on that yet.
[01:51:09]  But right now, you know, like I said, crime and entertainment, we drop something every week.
[01:51:14]  There's usually something for everybody on there, man.
[01:51:15]  We've had mobsters, porn stars, actors, writers, you know, everywhere in between.
[01:51:21]  So I'm sure there'll be something on there for everybody if they want to go take a look at that.
[01:51:24]  Hell yeah, man.
[01:51:25]  Well, I'll link it all below.
[01:51:26]  Thank you very much.
[01:51:27]  I appreciate it.
[01:51:28]  I appreciate you having me too, my friend.
[01:51:29]  Absolutely, man.
[01:51:29]  My pleasure.