Danny Jones Podcast - #140 - Ex-Anonymous Insider Sentenced to 105 Years in Prison | Barrett Brown
Aired: 2022-06-09
Duration: 02:15:55


=== Why I Am Not In The US (11:34) ===

[00:00:08]  So, you are the second person that I've talked to who, for legal reasons, is not in the U.S. and I've had to do a Zoom interview with because I typically don't do Zoom interviews.
[00:00:21]  So, could you sort of explain your geographical situation that you're in right now and how that ties into the FBI and the alleged leaked audio that you posted?
[00:00:36]  Absolutely.
[00:00:36]  So, After I got out of prison in 2016, over my involvement with the number of leaks and investigations into Palantir, H.P. Gary, Booz Allen Hamilton, Cambridge Analytica, firms that later went on to get caught over and over again interfering with democratic elections.
[00:00:59]  About a few months after I got released, I got rearrested by the federal marshals for giving interviews to Vice and to PBS.
[00:01:06]  There was no paperwork, no warrants, no BOP, Bureau of Prisons documentation, no paperwork whatsoever.
[00:01:13]  I was released five days later after one of my publishers paid a New York law firm $10,000 to basically go to them and threaten them and say, hey, we're going to take it to court right now.
[00:01:21]  It's not going to look good.
[00:01:22]  So they let me out after that.
[00:01:24]  At that point, I announced several times publicly on Democracy Now! and on Russia Today! and a few other outlets that as soon as my probation ended and I was allowed to, I would be leaving the US for good.
[00:01:36]  And I finally did that at the end of 2020, went to Antigua.
[00:01:42]  From there on, came to the UK.
[00:01:46]  Found out last year when I received six hours of secretly recorded audio made by Val Broeksmith, who is the son of a Deutsche Bank executive who supposedly killed himself back in 2015, one of several Deutsche Bank executives who had that little cluster of suicides all of a sudden at that time.
[00:02:07]  Found out from him or from these recordings he had made of a meeting that he had with the FBI at the LA office in the very end of 2020 that I was again.
[00:02:21]  A target, as it were.
[00:02:24]  And that was further verified when I was arrested for my involvement in this protest against expanded police powers against protesters.
[00:02:34]  When I was arrested last year on the canal boat that I live in with my fiance, arrested, brought to the Metropolitan Police Station, and overheard one of the Metropolitan officers, one of the arresting officers, telling one of the desk clerks that this is the guy that the FBI wants.
[00:02:54]  The guy I told you about earlier.
[00:02:55]  So, glean from that, that I was in trouble and that they were going to ship me.
[00:03:01]  And that turned out to be the case.
[00:03:02]  They put me in an immigration removal center the next day.
[00:03:07]  There were some falsified documents that the home office put that claimed that my visa had been up after five months rather than six months.
[00:03:18]  This is something that's mentioned in one of the articles that came out later.
[00:03:21]  Anyway, that, and when I got out, that's when I got the recordings of the.
[00:03:26]  The five hours of audio.
[00:03:27]  So, between that and a few other things that came up and some other sources I can't talk about, it became pretty abundantly clear that the FBI was back on the rampage.
[00:03:39]  And I have no way of knowing, despite reporters having gone to the FBI and asked, hey, what are you after him for?
[00:03:47]  No way of knowing what charges they would have this time, or even if the charges are ready yet.
[00:03:55]  They would be sealed, presumably.
[00:03:59]  I also have no way of knowing to what extent me releasing that six hours of audio that makes some of the FBI agents in question look very, very bad, whether that might have caused them to back off.
[00:04:13]  Likewise, I have no way of knowing if the fact that the guy who made those recordings, a former colleague of ours, Val Brooks, that I mentioned, who turned against us to the FBI in order to get help with a child custody case.
[00:04:30]  I have no way of knowing if his unusual death, I don't know if it's a half ago, and the drill in the name of Ming.
[00:04:43]  I have no way of knowing if my book released in January, that they are very well familiar with.
[00:04:46]  I don't know if that's going to scare them off further or the fact that there's a screenplay.
[00:04:52]  But bottom line is, I've been in the UK.
[00:04:54]  I've been splitting my time between London, where my girlfriend and I have a canal boat that we live in, and her mother's house here in Bournemouth.
[00:05:03]  So, bottom line is that the FBI wants another fight and they've got one.
[00:05:09]  So, what would happen if you came to the US right now?
[00:05:13]  Would anything happen if you landed in the US tomorrow?
[00:05:15]  Would you be in trouble immediately?
[00:05:17]  What do you think would happen?
[00:05:19]  It seemed from what happened last year with the whole immigration with the House Home Office and some of the documents we later got from the police in which they refer to the quote political elements, unquote, of my case when I was at the station and a few other things that.
[00:05:38]  At least as of last year, I would have been escorted on a plane back to the US from that immigration center to an airport, and I would probably have been arrested right there by FBI agents waiting for me.
[00:05:53]  But as it happens, right before they pulled me on a plane, we were able to declare asylum.
[00:06:00]  My girlfriend, Sylvia Mann, who's an activist and has been involved in this stuff before, managed to get ITN, a major London law firm.
[00:06:08]  To get their top asylum lawyer, who also specializes along with other legal entities they're working with in national security law, journalism law, and so forth, got them involved.
[00:06:20]  So they had to let me out.
[00:06:23]  And so basically, the odds are now less that were I returned to the US, I'd be arrested because I feel like they know, they know from experience from the time they had me in prison facing 105 years and then try to get me to cooperate.
[00:06:38]  Then threatened to indict my mom.
[00:06:39]  And I said, go ahead, indict my mom.
[00:06:41]  And then they tried to get me to plead to one of these counts of linking to documents that would have been very dangerous as a precedent for other journalists and researchers.
[00:06:50]  They know how I play this.
[00:06:52]  And they know that there's enough documentation from the past that would make anyone involved, any FBI agent involved, any DOJ official involved, it would make it, there would be an opportunity cost for anyone involved in another illicit prosecution of either me or anyone around me.
[00:07:13]  Not the FBI, not the DOJ, individual agents will think hard upon whether or not it's worth it to them to carry out whatever instructions they're getting from higher up.
[00:07:27]  I'll put it that way.
[00:07:28]  So, actually, they might still try to arrest me.
[00:07:31]  I've seen them do dumb shit before.
[00:07:33]  I've seen the UK screw up just in the last year and a half.
[00:07:38]  I've seen them stroke some things that they could have easily handled more effectively.
[00:07:46]  But I'm not going back to the US to give it a try.
[00:07:49]  I'm just going to see what happens from here.
[00:07:50]  I do have this asylum case ongoing, and this is the perfect opportunity for me.
[00:07:54]  Between that and the book release and some other projects, we have some things that will be launching in January and coming out.
[00:08:02]  It's going to be increasingly difficult for any governments to come after me unless they have a really strong case involving really clear evidence.
[00:08:14]  And they've never had that before.
[00:08:16]  I don't see them having that in the future.
[00:08:18]  So I think this would be a good time for us to rewind a little bit.
[00:08:23]  Just explain for the audience who is not familiar with you and your story what is your background and how did you get started down this path?
[00:08:31]  So, I was a journalist and freelancer since I was 17, 18, and started out doing a lot of nonsense, copyright.
[00:08:39]  I mean, wrote anything I could to make money writing, music reviews, women's shoe store write ups for America Online back in the day, blah, blah.
[00:08:48]  Gradually, I was able to move on to the things I wanted to do, which included humor writing, investigative journalism, started writing for things like The Guardian.
[00:08:58]  Vanity Fair, Huffington Post, Skeptic, Skeptical Inquirer.
[00:09:01]  I had my first book come out when I was 24.
[00:09:06]  You know, other outlets got columns, so forth.
[00:09:08]  But by about 2008, I had become very disenchanted with the press.
[00:09:16]  I had seen it from all angles, and I knew enough from what I'd seen that it was not up to the task of providing informed consents to the public about even some of the easy issues.
[00:09:28]  Much less the more complex issues.
[00:09:31]  It was something that could be easily played upon.
[00:09:35]  It could be easily conned and had been by any political strategist who spends 20 minutes thinking about how to do so.
[00:09:44]  So I was very concerned.
[00:09:45]  I had actually had a panic attack in 2007 when this came to me, my only panic attack I've ever had.
[00:09:51]  And so in 2009, me and Michael Hastings, who's now dead, he was a journalist for Rolling Stone and Newsweek, who he's the one who wrote an article that forced the resignation of General McChrystal in Afghanistan.
[00:10:04]  The day after Hastings' article came out about McChrystal and the war there, him and I had some talks about how we could, what we could do to develop some kind of mechanism to improve the press.
[00:10:18]  And that's what Project PM eventually came out of.
[00:10:21]  About a year later, early 2010, I wrote an article for Huffington Post about Anonymous and about how it's ongoing campaign at that point against the Australian government against proposed internet censorship legislation.
[00:10:37]  How it had, by bringing attention to the issue at the very least, had served as sort of a model, a proof of concept for how emergence, you know, non institutional, non states, groups of committed ideological actors could and would gradually become capable of taking on nation states in more important and more decisive ways.
[00:11:07]  Then a year later, The very end of 2010, I was recruited by the people within the AnonOps server, internet relay chat server, from which a lot of the things that people hear about, heard about back then, you know,
[00:11:24]  the attacks in defense of WikiLeaks and Assange, the attacks involving Tunisian governments, all the other stuff that happened in the next couple of years, most of that was centered in that server, which had about 80, 90 people, and about, I would say, a dozen people who were consistently.

=== Hacking The Tunisian Revolution (02:41) ===

[00:11:43]  In charge.
[00:11:44]  One of those became me.
[00:11:46]  So, I wasn't brought in because the Tunisian Revolution had begun.
[00:11:50]  There were members, people involved in the Tunisian Revolution, both in the country of Tunisia and Tunisian exiles in Germany and UK who were in this group.
[00:12:00]  And then there was the rest of us.
[00:12:03]  And we were able to, first of all, bring attention in the West to the fact that the revolution was occurring.
[00:12:11]  Because prior to January 1st, there was zero articles, zero knowledge.
[00:12:16]  That there was anything going on in Tunisia or that it would matter.
[00:12:19]  We were able to, with Michael Hastings' help, make sure that the press understood this correctly and did not view it incorrectly as a fundamentalist Islamic revolution, but that this was an actual secular democratic revolution by which democracy could be achieved.
[00:12:37]  And then some of the hackers and some of the other specialists there were able to provide other means of assistance to the revolutionaries in Tunisia.
[00:12:47]  And within about two weeks, One of the main guys in there, Slim Amanou, he's known as Slim404 on Twitter.
[00:12:55]  In general, he is an incredible person.
[00:13:01]  He was arrested for several days by the Tunisian authorities under the Ben Ali regime.
[00:13:06]  And then a few days later, he was released around the time that Ben Ali fled the country.
[00:13:10]  And then a few weeks later, he joined the provisional government in Tunisia, the democratic government, and then later resigned of a protest over something.
[00:13:17]  But short version was that.
[00:13:20]  With the Tunisians and the other allies brought in from around the world to counter the Tunisian authorities, to engage in cyber attacks against the Tunisian police apparatus, and to buy other forms of assistance.
[00:13:37]  That was a proof of concept right there.
[00:13:39]  It showed that, yeah, a lot could be done if we have the right people, just like the CIA, just like anything else.
[00:13:46]  If we have the right people and we're working together properly and we have And if we're willing to risk whatever to do it, then we can oftentimes do it.
[00:13:58]  And that's where the Arab Spring came from.
[00:14:01]  It wasn't successful in other countries, of course, but it did lead to Morocco, for instance, the King of Morocco, getting scared and providing some new reforms, some new rights to people there.
[00:14:10]  It helped in many ways.
[00:14:12]  Anyway, from there on, about a month after this, this is February 2011, we discovered there's a Financial Times article that came out in which a former Navy intelligence figure.

=== Congress Investigates Intelligence Misuse (03:17) ===

[00:14:24]  And longtime intelligence contractor named Aaron Barr bragged about having infiltrated the Anonop server and identified our leaders and so forth.
[00:14:32]  And the next day, several of the hackers told me they were about to go in to his company, take over his servers, steal all their documents, get his notes on us, and everything else.
[00:14:46]  And so I got ready to deal with the press on that.
[00:14:48]  And from that, that's how we discovered that H.P. Gary, Palantir, Uh, in game systems and barraco, these four companies had been uh set up with the help of the Obama DOJ, uh, to provide what amounted to a clandestine black ops uh service to private entities, um, like the like, for instance, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Bank of America.
[00:15:15]  Uh, so that's the team themus scandal.
[00:15:18]  People, if people want to look up the team themus scandal, they'll be able to get a better sense.
[00:15:20]  This was a thing that was in the news for about a month, every major outlet covered it.
[00:15:24]  Congress started to investigate.
[00:15:27]  All this.
[00:15:27]  And then that investigation was shut down, oddly enough, by a Republican committee chairman, which is interesting because this was a scandal that involved, again, the Obama DOJ.
[00:15:38]  You know, it's very unusual for a Republican to want to shut down an investigation and something like that.
[00:15:43]  That was a real scandal, unlike the Fast and Furious stuff and a few others.
[00:15:47]  That was a real scandal.
[00:15:49]  The reason they shut it down is because this is a bipartisan issue.
[00:15:53]  The intermixing of the misuse of intelligence agencies, all these things were bipartisan.
[00:16:02]  There are very few people in Congress or the Senate or any administration from Obama to Trump to Biden who have any real problem with these things occurring.
[00:16:15]  It's the bipartisan consensus.
[00:16:17]  So, anyway, I went to prison.
[00:16:20]  So, what you're talking about is private intelligence contractors.
[00:16:27]  Often in league.
[00:16:28]  Yes, often in league with their counterparts at the NSA, DOJ, FBI, and so forth, as they were in this case and as they have in other cases.
[00:16:36]  And so, some of the things I wanted to investigate involve private intelligence contractors, but creating products for clients in the Pentagon, in the CIA, or Kingdom of Bahrain, or, you know, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, other illicit dictatorships, and everybody just winking at it, everybody letting it happen.
[00:16:56]  More to the point, I'm talking about disinformation methodologies, technologies that were being developed at that point that later on became very decisive and have still been decisive in helping to destroy the ability of the public to really understand what's going on at a given point.
[00:17:13]  I mean, social networking bots, the mass proliferation of AI supported fake people online.
[00:17:21]  Uh, by which to, uh, you know, and everyone's heard of the simple versions of this the Russian troll bots and all that, you know, that's yeah, as well as Saudi Arabia, yeah, and that's cheap off the shelf stuff.
[00:17:32]  And it was actually used a lot more in Latin America before it was used in the US these Twitter bots that just go and help to create, you know, the illusion of consensus.

=== Obstruction Charges And Disinformation (14:52) ===

[00:17:41]  Uh, some of the early research, anyway.
[00:17:43]  So, without getting into you know the specifics, uh, we over the next year and a half, me and my team, uh, in coordination with some other journalists, uh.
[00:17:54]  Sometimes, with me writing in the Guardian, sometimes with me writing just publicly putting stuff out, we came across a lot of things that we weren't supposed to and that the public was not supposed to know about.
[00:18:04]  And to some extent, the press paid attention, to some extent, they forgot pretty quickly.
[00:18:09]  And the FBI was within a few weeks of our first discoveries of these DOJ associated illicit programs to target journalists, to target WikiLeaks, to target labor unions, to target us using criminal methods that would be crimes if we did them.
[00:18:29]  Within a few weeks, the FBI had acquired a secret grand jury investigation against me, secret grand jury warrants to see all my communications, blah, blah, and started deploying some not so secret FBI cooperators and assets that went after me and my family, loved ones, and other volunteers, exposed us in some cases to extreme danger from other parties.
[00:18:58]  For instance, the ZS drug cartel, which Anonymous was up against.
[00:19:01]  In October of 2011.
[00:19:04]  Yeah, I see the expression on your face.
[00:19:05]  Why were they up against the Zeta drug cartel?
[00:19:09]  In about October or November, October 2011, a member of Anon Veracruz, which was a cell of active anonymous movement participants, was kidnapped by the Zetas.
[00:19:24]  There's a lot we don't know about specifics.
[00:19:25]  It may have been a random thing.
[00:19:27]  It probably was.
[00:19:28]  It had nothing to do with him being anonymous.
[00:19:31]  He was held for ransom.
[00:19:32]  This is one of the things that the Zetas do, aside from drug running, or used to do, or of their capabilities.
[00:19:36]  Anyway, so the Anon Veracruz people begin, you know, they ask for some assistance on this.
[00:19:44]  What they wanted to do was somewhat controversial among some of the American Anons.
[00:19:48]  What they wanted to do was make known to the Zetas that if this guy is not released within a certain number of days, Anon Veracruz is going to release the names of 75 Zetas affiliated police officers, cab drivers, and so forth.
[00:20:04]  The kind of people that help the Zetas, you know, cover their tracks, transport stuff, engage in kidnappings, killings.
[00:20:12]  And had they done that, there were, especially at that time in Mexico, there's a lot of groups that are very well armed and trained, not the police, not the military, that make it a point to execute such people because this was a war.
[00:20:29]  This whole operation was very popular in Mexico.
[00:20:31]  It was less popular among some of the douchey, some of the hacker sorts, and some of the people with no skin in the game who started objecting to it, who started attacking Don Veracruz for this because,
[00:20:45]  For because they thought it was unsafe or whatever, and so I stepped up and kind of became the face of that by because by explaining this to the press and to other nons and saying, Hey, it's not your business how these Mexican nons handle the kidnapping on one of their own or handle the Zeta cartel.
[00:21:03]  None of you have any, and none of you know anything about the cartels.
[00:21:06]  You never lived in Mexico, whereas I have, and my family comes from the border and all that.
[00:21:12]  But more to the point, these Mexicans live in Mexico, they deal with these cartels.
[00:21:16]  They're going to do this, and the reporters and the non participants in the US and Europe and elsewhere who are objecting should reconsider or shut the fuck up.
[00:21:27]  Anyway, so as often happens, the press decided that I was in charge of this entire operation.
[00:21:31]  And there's a bunch of articles, if you look up Barrett Brown's, from mainstream outlets, the Atlantic, whatever else, proposing that maybe I'm going to get my head cut off in Dallas, Texas.
[00:21:43]  Anyway, in that period, some of the people that were involved with H.P. Gary and the FBI and so forth.
[00:21:48]  Uh, did such things as posting my mom's address online on Twitter and tagging the Zeta cinema.
[00:21:54]  Yeah, this is one of the things that I later drove me to.
[00:21:58]  Um, where did they post this stuff?
[00:22:00]  They, where were they?
[00:22:02]  They would, these people that work within these companies and within the FBI doxed your mom on Twitter.
[00:22:11]  Yep, including Aaron Barr, uh, under the name Narganon.
[00:22:14]  Aaron Barr was the CEO of HB Gary, one of the company, the first company we investigated.
[00:22:18]  Uh, uh, Tom Ryan.
[00:22:21]  Another guy who was involved with another FBI cooperator and asset.
[00:22:24]  Um, uh, who, uh, anyway, yes, several of them and yeah, posted this and did not, of course, did not get kicked off Twitter.
[00:22:32]  Uh, did not, you know, there was no repercussions for them.
[00:22:35]  Uh, yeah, and that's kind of how this stuff goes, and that's the least of it.
[00:22:40]  Um, you know, there's there are you can still find hundreds and hundreds of death threats against me by FBI cooperators that are just sitting on Twitter.
[00:22:49]  Uh, that you know, I've never gotten anyone in trouble.
[00:22:52]  This is the same, it's the same thing for other people who are very active in, in, uh, And exposing intelligence operations, uh, Palantir, Peter Thiel, uh, his network.
[00:23:02]  Um, we all get the same treatment, and some of us fare better than others.
[00:23:06]  Some of us end up dead.
[00:23:08]  Um, you know, some of us live to fight another day, you know.
[00:23:13]  So once your mom got doxxed on Twitter, that's what led to you making that video that you posted, I believe, on YouTube.
[00:23:23]  No, no, no.
[00:23:24]  Okay.
[00:23:25]  No, uh, what that led to me was calling her and uh and uh asking her to leave the house, um, and then calling uh and then calling actually local police and saying, Hey, I normally wouldn't call you guys, but some of your buddies in the FBI have just done this, so I want you to patrol on that block because if anything happens to my mom, um, anyway, uh, no, I didn't want to threaten the FBI until much later.
[00:23:49]  So in March 2012, I was raided by the FBI at my mom's house, uh, they come to my apartment first, I had left the previous day to go to my mom's house knowing they were coming.
[00:23:59]  That I had a tip.
[00:24:00]  And so they came to my mom's house without a warrant, asked to speak to me.
[00:24:03]  I said, Come on the backyard, let's talk.
[00:24:04]  And they asked me if I wanted to give them any laptops.
[00:24:06]  And I said, No, I really don't want to give you any laptops.
[00:24:09]  And so on and so forth.
[00:24:10]  And they left.
[00:24:10]  A few hours later, they came back with a warrant, searched my mom's house, detained her downstairs.
[00:24:15]  And then a few days later, the DOJ prosecutor told me through my lawyer that now my mom was going to be prosecuted as well for obstruction of justice.
[00:24:28]  My mom urged me not to say anything publicly.
[00:24:31]  And I didn't for that time, but over the next few months, I found more and more elements of how the FBI and certain of their friendly parties in the press, friendly reporters, some of whom work with HB Gary, Stratford,
[00:24:46]  the FBI itself, FBI cooperators, the way they had shaped things up in order to try to discredit me, discredit our research, discredit Aaron Schwartz's research, discredit the research that dozens of us had done over the last year, Powell and so forth.
[00:25:03]  And some of the things the FBI, I caught the FBI doing more things and being involved in more things.
[00:25:09]  And I knew if I just could, and I tried my best to go to reporters and other comrades and say, hey, look, this stuff's going to happen to me.
[00:25:17]  I'm going to go to prison.
[00:25:19]  You know, please be in a position to make sure these things about Palantir and Booz Allen Hamilton and the NSA get out no matter what.
[00:25:28]  You know, as I said that to Green Greenwald, the last communication we ever had, you know, at that point until years later.
[00:25:36]  And nothing came out of it.
[00:25:37]  And so finally in September, I made a video saying, look, here's the things we've caught Aaron Barr doing.
[00:25:43]  Here's the things we've caught the other FBI assets doing to me, to my mother, to our colleagues.
[00:25:50]  Here's what we've caught them planning to do to the families of labor union leaders that they were going after.
[00:25:56]  I mean, Aaron Barr was in their proposals that Powenter and these other companies created to show Bank of America and Chamber of Commerce they were going to go after, they were going to investigate the children and families of their targets, labor union leaders.
[00:26:11]  Journalists, whoever, uh, and in fact, started had started doing so, uh, in these documents.
[00:26:18]  So, I said, Was since apparently that's all legal, I'm going to see if it's legal when I do it.
[00:26:22]  So, I'm going to look into the family of this FBI agent who's threatening my mom, and uh, you know, and we'll find out if there's a double standard here.
[00:26:29]  And of course, there was because I was hit by a SWAT team uh, later that evening, and uh, then uh, brought in, uh, charged with uh, with uh, threatening a federal agent.
[00:26:39]  Uh, because I had also said that I would shoot any other FBI agents who came.
[00:26:43]  To my mom's house or at my house or anyone else I know.
[00:26:47]  At the time, I meant it.
[00:26:50]  I mean, as far as I was concerned, nothing to lose.
[00:26:53]  I know what it means to be subject to an investigation by the FBI and DOJ in cooperation with major banks and things like Palantir.
[00:27:05]  And so I was more than happy to go out in a blaze of gunfire if need be.
[00:27:10]  Luckily, I had no weapons in the house at the time.
[00:27:13]  They were at my dad's house.
[00:27:15]  And so.
[00:27:15]  Otherwise, it could have been more serious.
[00:27:17]  Anyway, so they came and hit me.
[00:27:19]  The SWAT team busted in, full SWAT team brought me in.
[00:27:23]  I was charged with threatening a federal agent, and then a few months later, charged with the thing they had come up with to justify the original investigation, which was copying and pasting a link that had been posted in the NonOps chat server, posted by what turned out to be Jeremy Hammond, one of the hackers involved in the Stratford hack.
[00:27:43]  Me copying that link he had posted and pasting it into my chat room for Project PM for our researchers, and then asking Jeremy, you know, what's in these?
[00:27:53]  And him responding, oh, CNC, blah, blah, what's for traffic?
[00:27:58]  Credit cards.
[00:27:59]  He had posted the credit card information for the subscribers of Stratford.
[00:28:03]  I never used credit cards, you know, didn't want anyone else in my group.
[00:28:05]  The same link had been posted publicly as something that the DOJ knew.
[00:28:09]  It's why they, anyway.
[00:28:12]  But I was now facing 22 years on that mandatory minimum, 11 counts of aggravated identity theft for copying and pasting that link that I, you know, that it was one of hundreds of links I copied and pasted, the first one that involved credit card numbers.
[00:28:26]  I was charged with that.
[00:28:28]  And then they charged me with obstruction of justice as well, along with my mom.
[00:28:34]  And then they made me an offer through my lawyers.
[00:28:36]  They said, you know, if you cooperate, you know, we go to plea deal.
[00:28:41]  And I told my lawyer no.
[00:28:43]  A few months later, they charged my mom with obstruction of justice.
[00:28:48]  Then they made me their next final offer, which was if I pleaded just one of those 11 counts of obstruction of interference, sorry, of copying and pasting a link.
[00:28:59]  You know, I could get out right then.
[00:29:00]  I'd already, at that point, already done two years in jail waiting trial.
[00:29:04]  And I said no.
[00:29:05]  And the reason I said no is because had I pled a single one of those charges, the precedent established would have allowed the DOJ to prosecute any researcher, journalist, or some other regular civilian that they found to be, you know, dangerous simply for copying and pasting or accessing a file that ended up containing credit card numbers, which, you know, When you go through huge amounts of files every day, as we've been doing for a year and a half, sometimes it's going to happen.
[00:29:35]  Later on, of course, I learned.
[00:29:37]  Go ahead.
[00:29:37]  No, I was going to say, didn't they originally try to chart, like put you in for over 100 years or something?
[00:29:43]  I was based on 105 years total.
[00:29:44]  If you stacked up all the, there were 17 charges altogether.
[00:29:49]  There were 11 counts of aggravated identity theft.
[00:29:53]  There was the one count of threatening a federal agent.
[00:29:55]  There was another count of conspiracy to release protected information about a federal agent.
[00:30:01]  And then obstruction of justice, and I think something else.
[00:30:05]  And of course, they had to drop, they ended up having to drop after two and a half years, the day after the Electronic Freedom Foundation and our were not just dangerous, but also didn't make any sense because the de aggravated identity theft charge applies to stealing government issued on those grounds.
[00:30:26]  And also, they had, by this point, the press, thanks to Kevin Gallagher, the guy who helped to run my legal defense, had helped to.
[00:30:35]  Turn the tides to get the press to remember what it was that I've been, why they had targeted me to begin with, because a lot of them had been confused by that point.
[00:30:44]  And so by that time, 2013, 2014, I had become a cause celebrity.
[00:30:48]  I'd become a hero again, even among outlets that had a couple years later, a couple years prior, accused me of being a fraud, of being a charlatan, accused me of making up the Zetas thing.
[00:31:05]  Yeah, again, I've seen, and that's why the press itself, the press dynamics are the thing that since then have most, are most compelling to me, and the thing that me and others who have watched this happen feel that most needs to be solved.
[00:31:22]  We can risk our lives, even die in the case of Aaron Schwartz.
[00:31:25]  The press refrains from actively discrediting us on behalf of, you know, because they've gotten bad information knowingly or unknowingly from the state.
[00:31:38]  Unless they can act like the press is supposed to act, none of it matters.
[00:31:42]  No one's going to know.
[00:31:45]  You see this over and over again with the strap for documents.
[00:31:48]  There's 5 million strap for emails, you know, that went to WikiLeaks.
[00:31:51]  And just the first wave of the discoveries.
[00:31:54]  Uh, within those emails involved serious malfeasance, like such as Dow Chemical hiring Stratford to spy on the victims of the Bhopal incidents in the 80s, where one of Dow Chemical's plants blew up and killed thousands of people and maimed and sickened tens of thousands of others.
[00:32:15]  Stratford, the company I went down over, was actually that I owe $800,000 to in restitution, was spying on.
[00:32:24]  That group that was trying to compel Dallas Jones to pay some restitution, probably like $40 each to the remaining Indians.

=== Media Coverups And Epstein Scandal (12:23) ===

[00:32:33]  That's just one of many things we came across.
[00:32:37]  So, what I'm saying is that in the press, rather for the most part, particularly certain individuals like Adrian Chin, Joseph Min, Sam Biddle, John Cook, people who would go on to The Intercept and become editors there and writers there, just like I would.
[00:32:58]  There was a number of people who, because they wrote the first pieces putting out this information, those articles were then taken as trustworthy by other larger outlets, such as the New York Times, Atlantic, whatever.
[00:33:11]  And so, what I came to learn and what I'm able to document now is that all it takes is a few, let's say, on the take corrupt or FBI aligned journalists or intelligence community aligned journalists to create a narrative that will make that will ensure that.
[00:33:29]  The actual meat, the content, the actual issues that affect everyone that we put out, all these, a few of them to ensure that a large portion of the press either ignores it or discredits it.
[00:33:47]  And that's what happened over and over again.
[00:33:51]  And it's happened with other whistleblowers, and it'll keep happening until such time as the people in question, journalists who do that, are given a reason not to do it.
[00:34:01]  And so that's kind of what.
[00:34:02]  A lot of our projects, long term projects, I'm back in 10 years, starting 10 years ago, the things that will come to fruition in January, that will be the start of this.
[00:34:15]  That'll be the start of a new era in which reporters are going to want to start getting things right.
[00:34:20]  And they're definitely not going to get caught, let's say, colluding with Stratford or Palantir or H.P. Gary or the FBI.
[00:34:30]  That's a weird thing because it's a big thing you see now.
[00:34:33]  I mean, especially in the US, I don't know, I'm not familiar with the press in the UK, but I mean, Obviously, right now, I think a lot of people are pretty aware of the alignment with companies like CNN and MSNBC being aligned with and hiring all kinds of ex Pentagon officials,
[00:34:53]  ex CIA operatives, FBI operatives, and all these people using them and reporting on direct reports from the Pentagon without even trying to verify anything.
[00:35:05]  And that's a lot of.
[00:35:06]  Yeah, that's a big thing.
[00:35:08]  US and then the UK.
[00:35:10]  I mean, it's Dallas Morning News does it, New York Times does it, Wall Street Journal does it, obviously Fox News does it, MSNBC has open, you know, has ex CI agents, you know, all that.
[00:35:23]  Not the good kind that actually help and reveal stuff CI did, like John Kariyako.
[00:35:28]  But the kind that are still, you know, still aligned to that sort of centrist, fucking, you know, centrist bipartisan, you know, Pro status quo deal.
[00:35:42]  Yeah, I mean, MSNBC is one of the worst thinners.
[00:35:43]  But yeah, every single outlet, major outlet, is under, to some degree or another, is manipulated, sometimes, you know, knowingly by elements of the intelligence community or other intelligence agencies abroad or companies, you know, people like Peter Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, so forth.
[00:36:06]  This has been going on.
[00:36:07]  I mean, it's always been a thing.
[00:36:09]  I mean, you know, you remember the first Godfather movie, you know, where, you know, The mob could buy off the police locally or buy off reporters.
[00:36:16]  They had friendly reporters.
[00:36:17]  You know, this has always been a thing.
[00:36:20]  I think it's more of a thing now than it was, say, 30, I would say 25 years ago.
[00:36:24]  And worse, we have less journalists who are competent or courageous than we did 25 years ago.
[00:36:32]  We've got a lot of millennial types who went to Columbia University, fucking grew up in Connecticut, whatever the fuck, and they go straight to New York Times, you know, and they know shit about shit.
[00:36:43]  And they think they're not, again, they consider themselves experts.
[00:36:46]  You've got a lot of people who use the term conspiracy theory without thinking about what that means and just denouncing prima facie certain things as conspiracy theories.
[00:36:56]  And then, of course, engaging in what they would otherwise term conspiracy theories if those things align with their ideological interests or with what they think is the case.
[00:37:05]  You have a lot of cowards, you know, who even being aware of certain things within Hollywood or press, you know, have been caught, thankfully, suppressing that information.
[00:37:17]  You know, this includes my former editors at Vanity Fair, who killed two of my stories for them because the stories were about friends of fucking Reagan Carter, the publisher there.
[00:37:27]  Reagan Carter, same guy who helps protect Epstein for so many years.
[00:37:31]  Really?
[00:37:32]  Oh, yeah.
[00:37:34]  Yeah, look at that.
[00:37:34]  People should look up Reagan Carter Epstein because one of the former, one of the, there's a woman, I can't remember her name now.
[00:37:40]  I think I talked to her once.
[00:37:42]  She would try to do a piece on Epstein for Vanity Fair, and Reagan Carter made sure that didn't happen.
[00:37:49]  Again, this is all stuff that's that many cases have been documented, just it gets lost in the fog, lost in the strum.
[00:37:54]  But one, so one of the one of the one of the things that we we are trying to do in terms of some of the projects we're putting out, uh, you know, the the the large compilations of uh raw materials, recordings, emails, uh, screenshots, stolen documents, whatever.
[00:38:10]  Uh, just like with Project PM, which scared the government so much it had to come after it, let me come after me in ways that embarrassed a lot of DOJ officials.
[00:38:18]  Uh, this project would do the same with the press, uh.
[00:38:24]  And all these things that are already known, already public, made public by others, not me, those will be kind of compiled in there with entries for every single reporter and editor that we have stuff on.
[00:38:37]  And then we have the vast amount of material that I have and that a few of my colleagues have because we've been dealing with the press, we're part of the press, we've been interviewed by the press, been sources for the press, been written about by the press.
[00:38:48]  And when you're doing four years in prison and the press is writing about your case and you, it's very easy to find.
[00:38:56]  To find errors because it's about you, you know, you're the expert, and he had the documentation.
[00:39:01]  And so that made it a lot easier for me, my case and the coverage of me before and after to find errors and to find sometimes the same reporters providing two different contrary versions of the same story, or to find an outlet like the New York Times claiming in 2011 that maybe I made up a kidnapping in Mexico.
[00:39:23]  And then three years later, in an op ed, the New York Times compared me to Socrates.
[00:39:28]  Or the New York Times correctly detailing 2011 some of the things we found Palantir doing.
[00:39:35]  And then another New York Times reporter three years later, writing this real weird, demonstrably false pro palancer article.
[00:39:42]  And then a few months later, getting hired by Google, where he's now paid more.
[00:39:47]  It just goes on and on.
[00:39:48]  And it's something that the press does not regulate itself very well.
[00:39:55]  It doesn't have any negative feedback.
[00:39:57]  There's no reason pragmatically for a reporter to be honest, courageous, to hold his colleagues to account for their mistakes and errors.
[00:40:07]  And so we're going to create that mechanism.
[00:40:10]  And that will be of great help to the press, I'm sure.
[00:40:13]  What is your thoughts on the whole Epstein thing, the whole conspiracy revolving him and the French guy who just apparently killed himself in prison a couple months ago, or maybe it was less than a couple months ago?
[00:40:25]  I don't know how closely you followed that, but that's something that I noticed, especially during the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell, is that there was so little coverage of it, whether it be on Twitter or anywhere else.
[00:40:37]  There was just all these smaller, more irrelevant.
[00:40:41]  Headlines popping up that were sort of burying the whole Guy Lane thing.
[00:40:45]  Yes.
[00:40:46]  What is your take on that whole situation?
[00:40:49]  One of my favorite colleagues that I've dealt with on some things a few years ago, Kevin Hall, he's one of the guys at the Miami Tribune, the Miami Herald Tribune, that forced the Epstein thing back in the public eye a number of years ago, 2016, 2017.
[00:41:03]  He's one of the ones who wrote this big article that essentially forced the DOJ to go back after Epstein, even though they didn't want to.
[00:41:13]  And so I have.
[00:41:15]  I've had an interest in it for quite a while, especially because I mean, so I wrote a tweet back in 2017.
[00:41:23]  You know what?
[00:41:26]  Never mind.
[00:41:26]  I'm going to skip off bragging.
[00:41:28]  I'll just say I predicted some of this stuff coming about.
[00:41:30]  But basically, the Epstein thing is the exact sort of thing that if you were to say to some reporters, to some average reporters, hey, I think there's a billionaire who he's hanging out with like very powerful people like Trump and Clinton.
[00:41:46]  And with, like, you know, major figures who've done it for years, and he has an island and he, you know, seems to have a predilection for young girls and was convicted, in fact, for having sex with an underage girl a number of years ago and hangs out with Prince Andrew and all these things.
[00:42:01]  And maybe there's something there.
[00:42:03]  That's the kind of thing, you know, like, oh, that's a conspiracy theory because it involves powerful people engaging in pedophilia.
[00:42:09]  There's other reporters who would be reluctant to go into it or even acknowledge it because they support either Clinton or Trump.
[00:42:17]  Both of whom were on that damn plane at different times.
[00:42:20]  There's other reporters who just wouldn't understand why that's an issue.
[00:42:25]  And there's a lot of reporters who, even if they did understand and say, oh, yeah, wow, you're right, this is a bill of thing, they would be reluctant to be the ones going out and saying, oh, billionaire pedophile network involving the intelligence community and blackmail, because that sounds silly to the average civilian who's no shit about shit.
[00:42:41]  It sounds silly to other journalists and reporters who think that anything, who think they just.
[00:42:47]  Know it all, who have it all, have the world figured out.
[00:42:51]  And so it was tremendous.
[00:42:52]  It was great this article came out because it forced the DOJ to do this, this, and this.
[00:42:55]  And then, of course, the same press that had, you know, outside the Miami Herbal Tribune, outside these few reporters that I deal with and who are actually courageous and competent, yeah, they fucked the whole thing up.
[00:43:08]  They, you know, Epstein was convicted, he's put in jail, he's found dead.
[00:43:13]  Immediately, you have the same outlets that allowed this shit to happen, or in some cases, like Vanity Fair helped to cover up, like Epstein or other outlets that covered up, you know, the.
[00:43:24]  What are the two brothers in Hollywood that started the Me Too movement?
[00:43:28]  You know, you have the same outlets referring to the idea that maybe he didn't kill himself as a conspiracy theory, you know.
[00:43:35]  And then, of course, later you have documents coming out, autopsies, and all that.
[00:43:39]  No, it's not a silly thing that happens all the time.
[00:43:43]  And it's not a silly theory to look into.
[00:43:47]  It's not, there's nothing, it is in fact a journalist's duty if they're interested in this case and they want to write about it to explore the idea that maybe Epstein was killed.
[00:43:58]  Not just because another cellmate wanted him dead, but because a lot of powerful people wanted him dead.
[00:44:05]  Because a lot of powerful people had been on his fucking island and on his plane, fucking little girls.
[00:44:12]  Probably being taped.
[00:44:14]  Probably for a purpose involving, let's say, a combination of U.S. and Israeli intelligence in order to blackmail and control those people.
[00:44:24]  There's a number of individuals out there who would find that to be.
[00:44:31]  Not worth investigating, even though a lot of portions of it have come out since then.
[00:44:36]  Like, there's tons, tons of on the record people from intelligence, state, and all that.
[00:44:43]  There's tons of points to the conclusion that among me and my colleagues, when I say my colleagues, talk about the people that I work with privately in secure groups and so forth, who are journalists, academics, ex whistleblowers, ex intelligence, blah, blah.

=== Tricking A Pedophile Online (03:02) ===

[00:44:57]  We can all talk about these things without having civilians in the way, being like, oh, that's, you know, I've heard Alex Jones said something about that.
[00:45:03]  I mean, it's just wrong, like that kind of shit.
[00:45:05]  You know, so uh, no, it's pretty obvious that Epstein, uh, you know, even to get even aside from how he got all his money, uh, was involved in a effort to uh, a successful effort, you know, for a while, no doubt, uh, to compromise uh, powerful individuals.
[00:45:26]  That's what the Russians have been doing for years, what the U.S. has been doing for years, it's what uh, sometimes I do for years, just not using not involving pedophilia little girls, uh, you know, uh.
[00:45:38]  Well, actually, I should take that back.
[00:45:40]  Back in 2007, 2008, you know, just like with the show Perverted Justice or Catch a Predator.
[00:45:47]  Yes.
[00:45:48]  Yeah.
[00:45:49]  Well, there's a lot of us doing stuff like that back then.
[00:45:52]  Some of us associated with Psychopedia Dramatica, where we, you know, and people still do it.
[00:45:55]  They go, they go, they pretend to be, you know, young girls and all that.
[00:45:59]  And as a proof of concept, as a test, back in 2007, I did this and then tricked the perp, the pedophile.
[00:46:09]  Into calling my number, which turned out to be the number of the local Brooklyn, New York police station.
[00:46:15]  And then I told them, look, you've just called that number.
[00:46:17]  They've got that on file.
[00:46:18]  I can send this to them right now, unless you do what I tell you to do.
[00:46:22]  And what I told them to do was say, I like Mudkips, which was a meme, 4chan meme.
[00:46:27]  So now, had I been more at that point more interested in.
[00:46:31]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:46:33]  What made you want to do that?
[00:46:35]  Again, this was a test, proof of concept.
[00:46:37]  A proof of concept.
[00:46:39]  Yes.
[00:46:40]  Okay.
[00:46:40]  So you basically, you bait a pedophile into meeting up with you.
[00:46:43]  He thought you were an underage girl, right?
[00:46:46]  Right.
[00:46:47]  And you met up with him face to face and you fit.
[00:46:51]  No, I didn't make a face to face.
[00:46:53]  No, what I did was I told him, okay, yeah, you want to call me?
[00:46:56]  And the number that police station knows it got that call from that number at that time.
[00:47:02]  And the conversation is log showing that time.
[00:47:04]  So I now have this guy's life in my hands because I could sit at the police station and he's going down.
[00:47:10]  So alternatively, if I were, say, you know, someone who wanted to build up a slave army of pedophiles in order to achieve certain ends, I could say, now here's what you have to do you have to do the same thing I just did to you to three other people.
[00:47:27]  Wow.
[00:47:28]  And then tell each one of them to do other people.
[00:47:31]  And then down the line, when I'm ready for you to do your actual work, I'll provide instructions and overlay them.
[00:47:37]  And then, for instance, if they're done bluffing, I wouldn't go into it.
[00:47:45]  There are ways to secure that.
[00:47:46]  So, anyway, so this is actually in my book.
[00:47:48]  I write about this whole concept as a minute to illustrate that there is more under heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy.
[00:47:58]  Wow.

=== Establishing Free Speech Zones (10:44) ===

[00:47:59]  There are people out there, you know, Rockefellers or Pentagon or private companies, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, other activists I've known who think differently than the average person and who have different motivations and different agendas.
[00:48:11]  Some of us, like me, want to expose powerful people and counter them and bring them down.
[00:48:19]  You know, the other side, they want to do something else.
[00:48:22]  They want to rule the world under a global kleptocracy of technocrats, you know, led by Peter Thiel and Elon Musk.
[00:48:29]  What's your take on Elon Musk?
[00:48:31]  What do you think his motivations are?
[00:48:32]  What do you think his primary motivations are?
[00:48:35]  Well, he's mentally, he's kind of like the others, kind of like the other PayPal mafia, as they call themselves in private.
[00:48:43]  I mean, he's a goofy ass, you know, technical guy with autism of some sort.
[00:48:52]  And with all due respect to autistic people, there are forms of it, especially among a tech crowd, hackers I've dealt with, for instance, that make it very difficult for them to understand.
[00:49:06]  That gives them certain blind spots, just like I have certain blind spots because of my whatever my mental condition is.
[00:49:10]  I have no idea what's wrong with me, but it's on autism.
[00:49:13]  But anyway, Elon Musk falls into a certain pattern as to his motivations.
[00:49:19]  He wants to some extent, he wants what a lot of people want.
[00:49:23]  He wants to be recognized, he wants to be admired, he wants to have a degree of control.
[00:49:29]  And I haven't actually concentrated on him much until recently because I've been so focused on his former partner, Peter Thiel.
[00:49:37]  Now I'm interested in him because I always forget that they were partners.
[00:49:42]  Everyone does.
[00:49:43]  Him and Pierre Omidyar.
[00:49:45]  Pierre Omidyar started The Intercept, which I wrote for from prison.
[00:49:48]  It's where I won my National Magazine Awards for.
[00:49:51]  Not realizing at that time that Omidyar was someone who, a couple years before starting The Intercept, had been involved in the intelligence community and had expressed publicly his belief that whistleblowers should be our traitors.
[00:50:05]  He managed to.
[00:50:07]  Nonetheless, start the intersect with $500 billion.
[00:50:09]  He managed to get Grin Greenwald involved.
[00:50:13]  Grin Greenwald brought in Weave, my old enemy from back in the day, the neo Nazi who went on to run Daily Stormer.
[00:50:20]  And then Weave went to work not just for Oman Diara, but also for Peter Thiel at his company Clearview AI, which does massive facial surveillance.
[00:50:30]  And Weave's lawyer, Tor Eklund, who unfortunately I was responsible for bringing in because I brought in.
[00:50:37]  His friend Jay Lederman, another lawyer, to help protect PayPal 14.
[00:50:41]  Tor Eklund became chief counsel for Peter Thiel's Clearview AI, the surveillance company.
[00:50:46]  And Tor Eklund, that's another person who will eventually go down for that.
[00:50:53]  Anyway, Elon Musk, because he's lost $70 billion in capital over the last couple of months by Tesla cars, and because his attempt to buy Twitter created more scrutiny into his background, so forth, his associations, he's now going to be more attached to Peter Thiel.
[00:51:17]  And is expressing more of Peter Thiel's views, he's going to need Peter Thiel more.
[00:51:25]  And so.
[00:51:27]  Sorry to interrupt.
[00:51:28]  Do you think that has anything to do with the amazing amount of just fiery fury he's getting from the hardcore left wing on Twitter?
[00:51:38]  Or in general, for that matter?
[00:51:40]  Even before he got whatever this, I mean, the fury, I mean, everyone gets fucked up with their Twitter.
[00:51:44]  If you're a major prominent billionaire, you're going to get fiery fury.
[00:51:47]  I mean, he didn't go to prison.
[00:51:48]  He didn't have his mom fucking like added to the Zetos.
[00:51:50]  Like, I don't know what the fuck, you know.
[00:51:52]  No, right.
[00:51:53]  He's been involved with Peter Thiele years ago, just like Pierre Omidyar was.
[00:51:57]  But don't you think that what I'm getting at is like, isn't that kind of just like, isn't that natural human instinct when you start to get just because he's trying to go by Twitter and because he is advocating to make it more of a free speech centered platform?
[00:52:13]  And now for some reason, free speech is a right wing thing.
[00:52:16]  I always thought it was a left wing thing.
[00:52:17]  But now because he wants to make it more, You know, cut down on censorship and cut down on fake accounts and bots.
[00:52:23]  For some reason, he's getting attacked by the left and he's being worshipped by the right.
[00:52:28]  So, do you think that's that's unfortunately that's the world we live in where like everything is something else?
[00:52:33]  Like, it's like you know, so Twitter as it stands over the last five, six years has been, I mean, one of my biggest enemies, one of the things I've been most concerned about.
[00:52:39]  So, I mean, in theory, I'm happy to see some billionaire come in there and take it over and fucking and uh and get rid of like the you know, for instance, Twitter had Saudi Arabia intelligence agents fucking working there and using it, you know, to go after dissidents.
[00:52:52]  Uh, Twitter, uh.
[00:52:53]  But here's the thing Twitter, I have the world record for bands on Twitter, a permanent band.
[00:52:58]  Really?
[00:52:59]  Yeah, and there's some articles in the Daily Dot about this.
[00:53:01]  Just look up Barrett Brown Twitter, you'll find some articles.
[00:53:04]  And every single one of my bands, which started in 2017, three or four of them involved stuff I put out on Palantir and other people close to Peter Thiel.
[00:53:18]  Every single one of those bands.
[00:53:18]  And they were reversed, all of them except the last one were reversed because other press spoke up, other activists spoke up.
[00:53:26]  And Twitter ended up each time saying, oh, it was a mistake, blah, blah, you know.
[00:53:32]  So Elon Musk and Peter Thiel and Pierre Amadiar, again, who I actually worked for from prison writing these columns, you know, around the time that The Intercept and its reporters turned essentially in reality winner.
[00:53:51]  All three of them, none of those people are really interested in free speech.
[00:53:55]  I've seen this because.
[00:53:58]  They've gone at who they've gone after.
[00:54:00]  So, Elon Musk, when he goes in, he's not what he's not going to establish a free speech zone.
[00:54:05]  What he's going to do is establish what he claims to be a free speech zone.
[00:54:14]  And to the extent, okay, I think that he actually does, if he actually does that, it's going to be that Twitter's going to have all these difficulties, the same difficulties that anyone has when you're curating a big environment and anyone can say anything.
[00:54:25]  You know, it's going to be a difficult job.
[00:54:28]  Even for a person who is worthwhile and respectable and has a clear head and is transparent, Elon Musk is none of those things.
[00:54:37]  So, him and Peter Thiel, so Peter Thiel's meanwhile created Rumbler, you know.
[00:54:46]  And the odds that Peter Thiel and Elon Musk didn't have some conversations in the last six months, year, about Elon Musk buying Twitter are about 0%.
[00:54:55]  So, what this means is that the person who continues to gain control over our data, Peter Thiel, at the NHS, UN Refugee Program, predictive policing, You know, works at the CIA, uh, FBI, works all these things.
[00:55:13]  Uh, him and his friend Elon Musk, uh, cornering the market, helping to corner the market on social media.
[00:55:20]  I mean, look, look, Peter Thiel was at Facebook, you know, until he left a few months ago.
[00:55:26]  He didn't help to create a speech free speech zone there either.
[00:55:29]  And uh, Elon Musk's wasn't Facebook's another thing I got banned from about a year and a half ago after I posted uh, information about my former prosecutor and her involvement in uh.
[00:55:38]  In racist pornography, banned for with no express reason.
[00:55:44]  And that's the least of it.
[00:55:45]  Facebook also allowed an armed ex felon in Dallas to send about 40 or 50 rape and death threats to my girlfriend at the time from his account under his own name while the police in Dallas and the FBI in Dallas protected him because I had gone after the police in Dallas and so forth.
[00:56:03]  If people look up Barrett Brown bomb threat, they can find all about that.
[00:56:06]  Anyway, so what I'm saying is not a single one of these people has any record.
[00:56:10]  They've all been involved in the intelligence community.
[00:56:13]  They've all been involved in some of the worst aspects of it.
[00:56:17]  Has Elon been proven to be involved in the intelligence community other than being affiliated with Peter Thiel?
[00:56:21]  That's something I can't go into publicly simply for the reason that, yet, simply for the reason that there's my asylum case and some other things going on require that certain parties not be aware of what we have.
[00:56:35]  I'll put it that way.
[00:56:39]  But him being a partner in Peter Thiel, For me, it is enough.
[00:56:42]  So, I mean, the answer to these questions is it's.
[00:56:49]  It has to be done publicly.
[00:56:50]  Yep.
[00:56:51]  And that everyone else around them should be debriefed by force until we know exactly how much else they've done in the last six, seven years in terms of trying to destroy the public's ability to know what's going on.
[00:57:06]  Something that Palantir has been caught doing several times under Peter Deal's grip.
[00:57:12]  This is something I've said before, I'll keep saying it.
[00:57:17]  That's not a Republican or Democrat issue.
[00:57:19]  You think they need to, like, literally?
[00:57:22]  That seems a little extreme.
[00:57:24]  I'm an extremist.
[00:57:25]  I mean, that seems like.
[00:57:26]  I'm from Texas.
[00:57:27]  We have excuses every day.
[00:57:28]  We say this.
[00:57:30]  This is a four-week federal prison where we say this.
[00:57:34]  You know?
[00:57:35]  Yeah, but isn't Elon also doing a lot of good things for the world?
[00:57:39]  I mean, as far as like creating sustainable cars and sending, getting people, you know, creating an interplanetary, making us interplanetary, going to Mars.
[00:57:48]  Doing all this stuff?
[00:57:50]  Those things will happen with and without Elon Musk being around to do them.
[00:57:53]  I mean, with the space program, Elon Musk, it's great that he's making rocket ships and so forth.
[00:57:58]  But if at the same time he's colluding with and supporting and giving aid and comfort to his close partners, who meanwhile we've caught over and over again, ensuring that this new wonderful space based civilization of ours is under their control and involves a heavy use of disinformation methodologies of the sort we've caught them engaged in.
[00:58:20]  Then no, those rockets just need to be shut the fuck down.
[00:58:24]  We can have someone else step in and take over Tesla Motor.
[00:58:26]  I mean, other people can make electric cars.
[00:58:29]  Again, I just don't think that.
[00:58:31]  Number one, I don't think Elon Musk is capable of being the person he aspires to be.
[00:58:37]  I mean, and the stockholders seem to agree because he lost $70 billion in capital at Tesla Motors in the last few months.

=== Elon Musk And Tesla Control (05:21) ===

[00:58:44]  I think he's very much like other people I've dealt with, much more in person.
[00:58:48]  He is someone who thinks that because they're particularly good at some technical thing or business or whatever, that they are also thus natural philosopher kings.
[00:59:02]  I've seen that over and over again.
[00:59:03]  I keep saying it.
[00:59:05]  So, I mean, he could do all kinds of great cars, do great things to humanity.
[00:59:11]  He could create the Volkswagen, the people's car, like Hitler did.
[00:59:14]  Or like Stalin, he could help make sure the Russian kulaks know how to read while also killing them.
[00:59:19]  He could be like Winston Churchill and help win World War II while also insisting that Britain keeps its imperial empire.
[00:59:29]  He could be like Jared of Subway, who encouraged people to eat well and lose weight and was also.
[00:59:37]  You can do all kinds of things.
[00:59:40]  Again, it doesn't change the fact that he's a target for reasons that, unlike with Peter Thiel and Omidyar, aside from what I've told you in terms of his association with them and in terms of what I can't go into, but he is a part of that network, the PayPal Mafia.
[01:00:02]  Again, the PayPal Mafia isn't a term that I made up, it's a term I first heard in a conversation that we've had.
[01:00:09]  With one of my fellow people being prosecuted when Weave was deployed by Pierre Omidyar and Peter Thiel to intimidate them into refraining from criticizing Pierre Omidyar after Weave got hired by Omidyar and then by Peter Thiel.
[01:00:26]  Elon Musk knows all of this stuff, he knows all about it.
[01:00:29]  I mean, his former wife, Drew Rhimes, was dating up until recently my colleague, Chelsea Manning.
[01:00:36]  He knows who I am, he knows what I put out.
[01:00:39]  He knows a book's coming out.
[01:00:42]  Peter Thiel, you know, is very conversant with this as well.
[01:00:46]  Andy No, Peter Thiel's other little guy he funds, and Joe Rogan, they know who I am.
[01:00:50]  They've used their powers to help suppress some of our information.
[01:00:55]  And some of their other employees, including Weave, helped to drive my legal defense guy, Kevin Gallagher, to death last year.
[01:01:06]  And they know that happened too.
[01:01:09]  So.
[01:01:09]  Sorry, sorry, sorry.
[01:01:10]  Say that.
[01:01:11]  What happened again?
[01:01:12]  Say that last part again.
[01:01:13]  So, a number of people, so Weave, who's been a Peter Thiel employee for years and years, and a few other people that are working with Weave, the neon Andrew Arnheimer.
[01:01:22]  Okay.
[01:01:23]  Grand Daily Stormer for a while, and works for Clearview AI, and who was involved in helping to persecute me right before my arrest in 2012.
[01:01:39]  He and some of his associates who are working now working with the US intelligence community and Peter Thiel.
[01:01:46]  In this, in the Russia Ukraine war thing, uh, and who are also who it's complicated.
[01:01:51]  If you look, I could look up Aubrey Cottle, he's a known FBI CSIS person, uh, who has been presented by some of these same journalists that we found work with the FBI, but presented publicly in articles as the founder of Anonymous, uh, even though he's he's not, and uh, that even the sources they've used have have privately admitted no, he's not, he was a he was a troll, and he works for the FBI and CSIS, and he's he's and he's almost certainly a pedophile, uh.
[01:02:19]  So these people were involved in a shortly before I was arrested on May, yeah, May 17th.
[01:02:32]  A few days before that, they were involved in strewing with Kevin Gallagher, the guy who almost single handedly created my legal defense and my public defense out of nothing and was a part of Project PM and who has spent much of his last 10 years being.
[01:02:49]  Uh, pursued by the DOJ and FBI, suing the DOJ back for investigating everyone who donated to my legal defense fund.
[01:02:57]  Uh, these people who are all associated with and protecting Peter Thiel and CSIS and CIA and FBI, uh, they were among the last few people to have spoken to Kevin Gallagher publicly in May before he disappeared.
[01:03:12]  Uh, he disappeared the day I was arrested in the UK.
[01:03:16]  Uh, they were about to be publicly taunting him.
[01:03:21]  And then, and some of those people were also found to have been privately approaching people around me, people that work with me in different ways in those, in that same time.
[01:03:32]  And then Kevin Gallagher, you know, so disappeared for a few weeks.
[01:03:34]  When I got out, we noticed again, he'd been, he was absent.
[01:03:38]  He had left all the groups.
[01:03:39]  We couldn't find him.
[01:03:40]  We couldn't, his family didn't know where he was.
[01:03:42]  So we, back on June 10th, no, June 11th, I think, I sent someone to San Francisco to a colleague of mine to go to his house where she found him dead.
[01:03:53]  And, We'll never know exactly what role, you know.
[01:03:59]  We'll never know what happened, especially because some of those involved aren't cooperating yet.

=== Assange As Geopolitical Navigator (11:54) ===

[01:04:06]  But what I'm saying is that, no, Elon, and I'm being charitable by saying you shouldn't just be.
[01:04:17]  The reason I say that is not for revenge, it's because at some point our civilization has to take back control.
[01:04:25]  Of its public dialogue and its ability to not be surveilled, not be under mass surveillance, not be subjected to state and police controlled masses information protocols.
[01:04:40]  And if that's to happen, then we have to send a clear message to the same people who have tried to make an example out of me and who did make an example out of Aaron Schwartz and Michael Hastings, who blew up in 2013, and Kevin Gallagher, who's now dead, and a bunch of other people who aren't well known but who've also.
[01:04:58]  Not done very well as a function of being involved near me, like my mother, for instance.
[01:05:06]  We have to make examples out of these people.
[01:05:09]  That's Peter Thiel, Pierre Amadiar, everyone found to be involved.
[01:05:12]  Elon Musk knows all this stuff.
[01:05:14]  He's had every opportunity in the last 10 years to spend a little less time on Twitter, fucking like posting funny nonsense, where the fuck, and a little more time maybe telling his colleagues, hey, maybe you shouldn't be trying to create.
[01:05:30]  A what Peter Thiel himself describes as a non anti democratic, uh, dark enlightenment is the term they use, uh, kleptocracy.
[01:05:41]  Dark enlightenment is a term, yeah, term that Peter Thiel used.
[01:05:44]  That's that's something people should look up.
[01:05:45]  It's not very well known, that's how that's how Peter Thiel likes it, but he wrote an essay on it.
[01:05:50]  Uh, and it's it's the philosophy that's followed by a number of these people, uh, that I've dealt with over the years and have come up against.
[01:06:00]  And it's not the kind of thing that my grandfathers fought to achieve in World War II.
[01:06:06]  It's not the kind of thing that my half brother tried to achieve in the first Iraq War.
[01:06:10]  Not the kind of thing my uncle thought to achieve in Vietnam.
[01:06:12]  And it's certainly not the kind of fucking thing that the US or any other nation that wants to be democratic can tolerate.
[01:06:19]  It should be dealt with just like we dealt with Nazism.
[01:06:25]  Again, we have a bunch of German born people like Peter Thiel running around denouncing democracy, which is fine.
[01:06:32]  I mean, democracy has flaws and all that.
[01:06:34]  But the alternative is not, it should not be and it will not be an oligarchy run by a bunch of autistic fucking nutjobs.
[01:06:44]  Who aren't, who consider themselves to be above and beyond the rest of us, but who nonetheless, me and my colleagues keep catching it, keep beating nonetheless.
[01:06:56]  Don't you think, don't you think Elon Musk would do a way better job running the country than some of these other idiots that are running the country currently?
[01:07:04]  I mean, it seems like they all have the same personal motivations.
[01:07:07]  They're all in it for money, for their own careers, not for the right reasons.
[01:07:10]  They're not in it for the people.
[01:07:12]  I mean, Elon Musk, sure, you could say he's a piece of shit and he's got his.
[01:07:17]  It's all for his own personal gain, but wouldn't you say he's the lesser of the two evils?
[01:07:23]  Oh, I think there's many more than two evils.
[01:07:24]  I'm not sure if you mean, but the types that become typical politicians, like typical politicians that are around the country.
[01:07:30]  Oh, yeah, sure.
[01:07:31]  Yeah.
[01:07:32]  I mean, a lot of people said the same thing about Trump.
[01:07:33]  You know, they said that he was going to be an outsider, he was going to change things and all that.
[01:07:36]  And, you know, and I guess in some respects he did, but I do not feel that Trump, I mean, number one, Trump was someone who lied constantly.
[01:07:45]  Oh, I'm pro Julian Assange and whistleblowers, WikiLeaks.
[01:07:49]  Right.
[01:07:50]  Assange fell for that shit.
[01:07:51]  I didn't.
[01:07:53]  And Assange is now in a Belmarsh fucking prison, having lost a lot of his support from those of us who insist on honesty because Assange tried to make a deal with the Trump kids and was caught doing so.
[01:08:03]  Trying to make a deal with Roger Stone, was caught doing so.
[01:08:05]  Before that, he tried to make a deal with the Obama DOJ and was caught doing so.
[01:08:10]  So Assange, he's one of these type of people I'm talking about, people who just think that they're better navigators of the geopolitical and espionage sector than they are.
[01:08:21]  They surround themselves with yes men and all that, and they end up fucked up in the end, like Assange is right now.
[01:08:29]  And portray their own principles in the process.
[01:08:30]  As to Elon Musk, would he make a better president than Biden?
[01:08:33]  I mean, Biden's senile, so I certainly fucking hope so.
[01:08:36]  Right.
[01:08:37]  You know, having said that, I mean, there's just, I mean, I really don't know, actually.
[01:08:41]  I don't know.
[01:08:42]  Where do you think Assange fucked up?
[01:08:43]  What is your issue?
[01:08:44]  What do you think that he overlooked in his whole situation or how he ended up?
[01:08:49]  What would you have done differently if you were in his shoes?
[01:08:52]  Well, my issues with Assange are the same issues that a lot of people who were with him from the beginning or very close to him towards the end, the same reasons they left and in some cases are in hiding and won't talk about him, like Sarah Harrison, his former girlfriend and second in command, who, yeah, who, Brigitte Jan's daughter, who was even in that movie, the movie they made about him and all that, former Icelandic Pirate Party member of parliament, she left early on.
[01:09:21]  You know, there's others like myself and Naomi Colvin.
[01:09:24]  Who are still involved in his defense, working with his lawyers, it's the DOJ.
[01:09:29]  But all of us, I think, pretty much agree on what he did wrong.
[01:09:33]  He lied to the public, he lied to his own supporters, he sacrificed people like myself and Jeremy Hammond, which I would have been fine if he had achieved something by it, but he didn't.
[01:09:45]  He, yeah, he started with the mission of transparency, and that's what we do transparency.
[01:09:52]  He ended up having his own girlfriend go out and lie on his behalf.
[01:09:56]  Jim Robinson, I mean, not Jim Robinson, Sarah Harrison, she didn't know she was lying, claiming that he had no dog in the race in the US presidential election and was definitely not supporting either side.
[01:10:07]  Was not involved with either side, not working for either side, which turned out to be absolutely false.
[01:10:13]  And I know a lot of people who, like myself, have been Assange supporters.
[01:10:16]  Again, remember, I'm someone who was Assange supporter to an extent that I was happy to go to prison on his behalf and kept writing in his defense in prison until I got out and started finding out some things and found out that he was one of his tricks of the trade is to say, oh, Assange wants to talk to you about this.
[01:10:35]  And then he doesn't show up.
[01:10:36]  And then he sends Kim.com to come fucking talk to me.
[01:10:39]  Sends Sue, you know.
[01:10:41]  What people like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I tried to have Kim.com like play me, and uh, it didn't work because Kim.com is another one of these same guys.
[01:10:48]  He just thinks he's uh, he thinks he can pull one over on people, he thinks he can pull one over on me.
[01:10:57]  What was he trying to do to pull one over on you by hooking him?
[01:11:01]  Well, he first admitted that uh, that Assange, of course, was was uh, working on Trump's behalf, on Trump's behalf, which which I didn't need him to tell me that we already had documents knowing that some of which are public, some of which are not, some of which WikiLeaks uh.
[01:11:15]  Or Assange himself has presented little portions of, out of pretend that's all it is, Roger Stone conversations, and then left out the other large portions that make it clear.
[01:11:24]  It's just, again, he fucked up.
[01:11:26]  He decided to play geopolitics.
[01:11:28]  He decided to play CIA.
[01:11:29]  He decided to lie to the public instead of doing what our mission was, which was to make the public give them access to the truth.
[01:11:42]  And that's why he lost a lot of support.
[01:11:44]  And it's why the DOJ's job became a lot easier.
[01:11:47]  It's why the people who, like myself, you know, who essentially were happy to go to 100 years, you know, over this stuff.
[01:11:57]  I mean, Stratford, you know, Stratford, HB Gary, all the stuff I was investigated for and listed on my search warrant, these are all things that went with WikiLeaks.
[01:12:05]  So is this in regards to, pardon my ignorance, but is this in regards to the NGO set up that Hillary Clinton was a part of that was tied to the Ukraine?
[01:12:19]  Where the DNC was working with the Ukraine to undermine Trump?
[01:12:24]  No, this doesn't really come into that situation.
[01:12:27]  That's something I'm familiar with, and some of the people I work with have been investigating for years, people who know more about the Ukraine and the 2016 election than I do, because of course I was in prison for it.
[01:12:38]  But this is mostly unrelated issues, or the other side of those same issues, I guess.
[01:12:44]  I mean, the same kind of chicanery the Clintons were involved in with elements of Ukraine and other elements.
[01:12:52]  The Trump people were involved in with Assange, you know.
[01:12:55]  Okay.
[01:12:55]  And so that's, and that's a sad thing because we didn't set out, you know, wanting Assange to be the equivalent of some corrupt DNC fucking actor or the Chinese giving money to Clintons, you know, illegally or whatever, or the steel dossier people, you know, Fusion GPS.
[01:13:12]  That's not what we envisioned.
[01:13:14]  We envisioned something that would stand above that, that would be principled, that we could defend honestly and easily, right?
[01:13:20]  Be proud of.
[01:13:22]  And that's not what happened.
[01:13:23]  And it's again, and it's because Assange.
[01:13:26]  Uh, he did, he got some bad advice.
[01:13:30]  Uh, he had a lot of good advice, but he didn't take it.
[01:13:32]  And those who gave him the good advice were gradually alienated.
[01:13:35]  And, uh, you know, again, he overestimated his ability to, to, uh, he started out as someone leaking information about powerful people and ended up being someone, uh, who helped to conceal, uh, and conspire with powerful people in a way that got leaked.
[01:13:55]  Right.
[01:13:57]  It's the same story for the last 500 years, every political movement, you know.
[01:14:01]  It seems, yeah.
[01:14:03]  The communists start out, we're going to do this, this, and this.
[01:14:05]  Oh, well, because we're the communists, we're allowed to do this.
[01:14:07]  And the CIA is going to fight the communists, and they start out doing this properly.
[01:14:11]  Then it's like, oh, because we're the CIA, we can open up the democratic elections, lie about it.
[01:14:16]  When we actually screw up and actually help communism, we're going to cover it up.
[01:14:19]  It's the same story Democratic Party, Republican Party, WikiLeaks, much else.
[01:14:27]  It's the same human tendency in which we have blind spots, blinders, and we're able to excuse.
[01:14:39]  Our own and justify our own misconduct because the enemy is or is supposedly worse.
[01:14:46]  And we get to a point where that same misconduct you engage in gets found out.
[01:14:52]  And then suddenly, even on a pragmatic level, it was no longer helpful, was it?
[01:14:57]  Like the little breaking the rules here and there, when that is discovered, now you look bad and you deserve to.
[01:15:03]  And you've lost your moral stature, you've lost your credibility.
[01:15:08]  It's all it takes.
[01:15:09]  And again, it's an old cycle that happens throughout movements.
[01:15:15]  Things start out being effective, they go corrupt.
[01:15:19]  There's certain kinds of people who are climbers who will join groups and they're careerists, timekeepers, bureaucrats, whatever.
[01:15:26]  And there are certain kinds of people who cannot hold power wisely, they can't hold on to it, and they can't keep their own bad instincts in check.
[01:15:41]  Something that I do intentionally.
[01:15:42]  They don't surround themselves with people who are willing to say, hey, you're fucking wrong on this.
[01:15:45]  Fuck you.
[01:15:46]  Which is what I do to ensure.
[01:15:49]  And that's why I've never lost a strong supporter in my life.
[01:15:55]  In fact, I've gained a lot of Assange's, including some of the people who resigned from some of his groups to join me a few years ago.

=== Sputnik Interviews And Paranoia (04:58) ===

[01:16:02]  It's because, regardless of what my faults are, unlike Assange or Andy Noe or whatever else, I'm not going to hide.
[01:16:13]  And fail to explain anything, anything at all.
[01:16:15]  I will explain openly and candidly and fully like any action I engage in because my policy is not to do what, not to engage in actions that I'm not willing to explain.
[01:16:27]  What do you know about when I had Kariyaku on here a couple weeks ago?
[01:16:33]  He kind of like shocked me at the end of our talk where he told me that he does a radio show, a daily radio show on the Russian Sputnik radio.
[01:16:43]  And he said that.
[01:16:45]  They don't censor him at all, not one bit.
[01:16:48]  And he said he's often critical of Putin and that whole regime, and he never has to deal with any kind of censorship, nothing close to what he deals with in America.
[01:17:00]  He said he's been banned on Apple podcasts, on Spotify, and lots of other media platforms.
[01:17:09]  What is your take on all of that?
[01:17:11]  And what is your take on Russian propaganda versus what's going on within the media within the US?
[01:17:18]  Right.
[01:17:18]  So Russia today and Sputnik are pretty very different creatures.
[01:17:23]  And I've dealt with Sputnik.
[01:17:24]  I was interviewed by Sputnik a couple of times.
[01:17:26]  And I stopped going on Sputnik, I think, after the first interview I did in 2017, because they misrepresented what I said, like they, in a bizarre way, like I had said.
[01:17:39]  There's basically this is like this person did nothing.
[01:17:43]  I said something about this, whatever person did nothing wrong in that regard, their real problem was worse.
[01:17:48]  They did this and they changed it to this person did nothing wrong, like in the headline and all that shit.
[01:17:52]  And I'm not going to fucking go in for that shit.
[01:17:55]  Rush Sputnik is also, I mean, quite well known as a, it is a very blatant Russian signals intelligence operation.
[01:18:02]  It's been that way for years.
[01:18:03]  There are a couple of my colleagues, at least one of my colleagues, who used to work with Sputnik early on before determining more about it.
[01:18:11]  Having said that, as of Russia today, Sputnik, oftentimes, in a weird way, these outlets are going to be more willing to take on and provide a real free forum to US dissidents because even they're criticizing Putin here.
[01:18:33]  Uh, they're still, it's still a slap in the face to the U.S.
[01:18:36]  It's still showing that, yeah, look, these guys couldn't get a gig on CNN, they couldn't get you know, they're not gonna get a column job at the Atlantic.
[01:18:43]  Uh, I mean, there's some outlets in the U.S. that you know where they could and can, but like you know, uh, and that's one of the reasons I went on Russia Today like about 20 30 times between 2010 and uh, and a few months ago, my last appearance there,
[01:18:58]  which uh, ended up being uh, not an actual interview, it was an interview, it was a not a media interview, but in fact, turned out to be a uh, A free briefing to the Russian intelligence services about certain known CIA assets.
[01:19:14]  This was done three days before the Ukraine invasion.
[01:19:18]  They never broadcast it or mentioned it, and the interview was with the Russian national.
[01:19:21]  I recorded it on my end, and we'll make that public at some point.
[01:19:24]  The transcript's already public.
[01:19:26]  Anyway, so I won't deal with them again because I don't want to be put in that position.
[01:19:30]  Yeah, yeah, again, this is, we're at the center, but between me and the people I work with, we're at the center of a lot of things, and we're very closely watched because we know, you know, we know quite a bit.
[01:19:39]  And uh, we are of active threats to a lot of a lot of entities, and again, that's why I was facing 105 years in prison.
[01:19:46]  It wasn't because of my good looks, it wasn't because they just felt 105 was a fun number.
[01:19:50]  Um, it's because you just like, like, you have must have you must be so paranoid.
[01:19:59]  I mean, you have you're in the middle of all of these crazy, just like national powers, like, you must be in the middle of so many different crosshairs.
[01:20:09]  Does that not freak you out, or do you just do you?
[01:20:12]  Thrive off of that?
[01:20:16]  Traditionally, I've been much less paranoid than I should have been, which is why I keep, especially in the last year or two, I've kept getting surprised about people I've dealt with that turn out to be something else entirely.
[01:20:25]  And so I've made a resolution to be more careful and to punish those people very publicly and into the US and Russia by making that interview open, by posting the interview they did with Russian intelligence.
[01:20:36]  They punished Russian intelligence by showing, by putting this out, showing Russian intelligence, again, was using Russia today as a means of.
[01:20:46]  Espionage and punish the US because that whole interview is when I go into a lot of their CIA assets that are being used openly within the anonymous movements in DDOS, which are now absolute extensions of US intelligence.

=== Addiction, Raids, And Hopelessness (05:09) ===

[01:20:59]  And so, I mean, so now it's, I mean, I'm a drug addict and alcoholic.
[01:21:06]  So, you know, and I once faced 105 years in prison, and the odds were pretty high that I was going to die in prison.
[01:21:11]  So, after that, you know, to an extent, you're kind of.
[01:21:16]  You're kind of deadened to, you know, what are they going to do?
[01:21:18]  I mean, are they going to shoot me in the head?
[01:21:20]  Oh, no, I'll be dead.
[01:21:21]  This is kind of just like you said you used to be addicted to heroin, right?
[01:21:26]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:21:26]  And I'm still on Suboxone, mate.
[01:21:28]  And I'm going to take Suboxone, which is a synthetic opiate.
[01:21:30]  You know, I'm taking that for 10 years.
[01:21:32]  And you still take that currently?
[01:21:34]  Yeah.
[01:21:34]  And I take whatever else flows around.
[01:21:38]  Do you think that has anything to do with your kind of like what you're doing with your life right now, as far as like, I think if I get the sense that you get energy from all of this and from putting all this stuff.
[01:21:50]  I mean, to agree, I mean, you remember my, my, my, the things that get me in trouble.
[01:21:58]  I've been doing that since I was five years old, six years old.
[01:22:01]  There's just something, there's some trait I have that prompts me to be really offended by what I see as certain kinds of injustice or dishonesty.
[01:22:09]  And, you know, I wasn't on drugs when I got suspended from school like six or seven times during a particular year, fucking with teachers, and I wasn't on drugs, you know.
[01:22:17]  But the drugs certainly contribute sometimes to certain kinds of behavior, but they also, in some ways, maybe help me to refrain from.
[01:22:28]  Doing things that I shouldn't, you know, more, more, you know, let's say more direct things.
[01:22:35]  Are you afraid of death?
[01:22:38]  No, no.
[01:22:40]  What I'm afraid of is that all these sacrifices and all this work is going to come to nothing, and that regardless of what happens to us, you know, the ones we're still alive, the point will still get lost.
[01:22:57]  And Yeah, and the things that we've been predicting and keep happening, you know, regarding Cambridge Analytica, Powenter, election interference, mass disinformation, the inability for the average person to know where I can find credible information.
[01:23:15]  All those things have accelerated in the last 10 years that we've been worried about, predicted, tried to counter, that those things will continue because we will have failed.
[01:23:26]  But, you know, luckily I'm a human being, and so I'm also able to cut that off.
[01:23:33]  Everyone's going to die, you know, that's going to happen.
[01:23:36]  Luckily, we're able to cut off from feeling emotions about that.
[01:23:39]  You know, it's more arbitrary the way we feel.
[01:23:43]  I mean, yeah, sometimes they do get very upset and hopeless.
[01:23:46]  I feel hopeless about the cause.
[01:23:48]  And in fact, I attempted to kill myself a month and a half ago for the first time in my life and made that known afterwards, partly because I've come across some things involving people close to us and was.
[01:24:03]  Uh, not very hopeful about other people taking them seriously.
[01:24:10]  Uh, luckily, my girlfriend woke up and intervened before that was completed.
[01:24:17]  And uh, but that was then again, we've solved some of these problems since then, so I've been pretty happy since.
[01:24:25]  Um, you know, it's just my dad was only happy when he had lots of money, which was for about seven years till he got hit by the FBI for engaging all his real estate fraud and so forth.
[01:24:35]  Um, your dad was in real estate fraud.
[01:24:38]  Well, this case was dismissed, but he lost all his money and his partners went to jail.
[01:24:42]  He was a guy who made all his money, you know, no risk, no reward kind of way.
[01:24:48]  I'm only happy when I believe, when I have reason to believe that I'm going to be victorious over these much more powerful entities and I'm going to be able to convince people who don't quite see it that way yet that actually they're on my side, not on these other sides.
[01:25:09]  Whatever shape it takes, we'll, starting next year in January, result in an increased.
[01:25:20]  The war that's being fought, we'll actually start fighting it.
[01:25:23]  The war that's involved 40 FBI raids in January 2011 against households in the US for supposedly being involved in DDUSing PayPal, Elon Musk and fucking Peter Thiel's and Omidyar's thing.
[01:25:38]  All the fucking, all the heavily armed raids against people in the UK, Spain, France, being involved in Anonymous, the people who have disappeared, people who have died, you know, took their own lives or whatever, you know, all the stuff that's been done to our families, prosecutions, the unofficial prosecutions that we're going to be able to, that people will see that there is a duty, necessity, and,

=== Becoming Real Citizens Now (03:08) ===

[01:26:09]  You know, so it's my hope, my vision, and it's what keeps me going to know that someday in the near future, I can get a lot of people to stop being pussies and start acting like real citizens vis a vis the information that we have documented and needs to be acted upon.
[01:26:31]  And that entails a lot of things.
[01:26:32]  It involves a couple of years of information warfare, making sure everyone's on the same page.
[01:26:41]  You know, it will also entail a lot of these powerful oligarchs and so forth losing more money, losing more influence.
[01:26:47]  There are individuals who work for them going into hiding, or in some cases, making deals with me to be debriefed, as some people sometimes do.
[01:26:59]  Others who were not aware of what they were doing, you know, voluntarily coming and being briefed, which happens.
[01:27:05]  And then we'll get to a point, you know, over the next 10 years as things get more chaotic, at which it will no longer be shocking to hear me say that, yes, these people who are.
[01:27:15]  Uh, absolute vast criminals.
[01:27:17]  Uh, what do you think Peter Thiel's primary motivations are, and what do you think the future that the near future holds for as far as his ambitions and what he wants to achieve?
[01:27:31]  And can you go into that a little bit?
[01:27:33]  Yeah, uh, well, I mean, by the way, did you just roll a joint?
[01:27:37]  No, there's a cigarette.
[01:27:38]  My oh, I smoke weed out of a uh vaporizer thing now.
[01:27:41]  Oh, okay, there's a cigarette made up of I had a chance.
[01:27:45]  I was gonna say that's amazing.
[01:27:46]  I mean, you'd be the first person to ever roll a joint.
[01:27:48]  On my podcast, oh, I've done drugs on major national outlets.
[01:27:54]  Um, hell yeah.
[01:27:55]  The thing is, I'm gonna smoke a cigarette outside the window, which is actually a bigger deal here.
[01:27:58]  Smoke a smoke of weed in the house is no big deal, but cigarette tobacco stuff.
[01:28:03]  Uh, yeah, all right, come on.
[01:28:05]  Oh, is that your cat?
[01:28:09]  Oh, that's cute.
[01:28:12]  It's a cat.
[01:28:14]  No, no, no, it's it's it's it's yeah, it's Sylvia's my girlfriend's.
[01:28:17]  Um, so.
[01:28:19]  To some degree, anyone who wants to know what Peter Thiel believes in and what he plans, they can find out from Thiel himself.
[01:28:28]  Just read his article on the Dark Enlightenment.
[01:28:33]  I would only add, in terms of his motivations, I think his motivations are very similar to a number of historical figures going way back and right up until our times.
[01:28:45]  He wants.
[01:28:47]  Like fucking cat.
[01:28:50]  It's really obnoxious.
[01:28:51]  It's always after food and shit, and it goes around anyway, and it's been fed and just goes around extorting people.
[01:29:00]  So, for people who don't know, I think he honestly believes that the course that he's in a position to establish for humanity is the best way forward.

=== Glorious Defeats Of Tyrants (03:33) ===

[01:29:17]  Yeah, and I think that that's true of people throughout.
[01:29:19]  That's true of Stalin.
[01:29:20]  It was true of Lenin.
[01:29:21]  It was true of Hitler.
[01:29:22]  It was true of Churchill.
[01:29:23]  True of Roosevelt, it was true of George Washington, true of Napoleon, true of Julius Caesar, and some of those people I have more sympathy with than others.
[01:29:31]  I just don't think that Peter Thiel is up there with Napoleon or Julius Caesar or Robespierre or Thomas Jefferson or even, yeah, I just don't.
[01:29:48]  Based on my experiences with him and based on the fact, again, that despite all of his power and money, I've been able to give him the runaround several times in coordination with my people.
[01:30:00]  If the idea is that, you know, You know, might is right, or that the power, you know, will to power and all these things.
[01:30:06]  Well, it's not quite working out for him because I mean, it's been 10 years and the real response from me, aside from all the things that have appeared in the paper about him because of me and all the congressional investigations that have occurred and been shut short because of me and the other stuff that's going to that's occurred because of me.
[01:30:28]  The real response by a number of us and some other organizations and Individuals, journalists, you know, different kinds of people.
[01:30:40]  That hasn't even come yet.
[01:30:43]  But we've played a pretty significant part, both publicly and covertly, in disrupting his enterprises and those of others, other individuals like him, oftentimes from prison.
[01:30:58]  So I don't think he's up to the task.
[01:30:59]  I don't think he's up to the task of leading the world.
[01:31:03]  And I think that's going to be made more clear in January.
[01:31:08]  When the hammers start to drop, you're releasing your book, right?
[01:31:14]  Yeah, my memoirs, which have been a product of 10 years of research, not just by me, but by Aaron Schwartz, Michael Hastings, all tons of volunteers, so forth, will be coming out.
[01:31:23]  It'll be going to every single major outlet in the Western world, as well as a lot of NGOs.
[01:31:28]  It's going to be championed by people like comedian Frankie Boyle, Alex Winner, on up to fucking anarchist radicals here and there, libertarian groups here and there.
[01:31:38]  What's going to be the name of it?
[01:31:39]  What is the name of it going to be?
[01:31:40]  It's called My Glorious Defeats.
[01:31:43]  My Glorious Defeats.
[01:31:48]  That's going to happen.
[01:31:49]  And by that time, the stream play version that I'm doing with Alex Winner will be floating around Hollywood.
[01:31:56]  Even the fact of even just producers reading it, you know, we have studios that want it, but the point of the fact of it circulating around will itself help to bring attention to what we have on him and others around him, some of the journalists that he's had working for him and so forth.
[01:32:12]  It will be produced, it will be made into a future film.
[01:32:15]  Uh, that I can pretty much guarantee you that at this point, based on what I know.
[01:32:20]  Uh, at the same time, some major projects that we're doing in coordination with several different, very, very different groups, uh, will launch.
[01:32:30]  Uh, and a lot of the things that don't involve Peter Thiel, uh, you know, will be coming out.
[01:32:37]  And a lot of individual journalists, reporters, editors, and so forth were still working.
[01:32:42]  A lot of uh.
[01:32:43]  Federal officials, ex FBI, federal judges, DOJ officials.

=== The Johnny Depp Trial Fallout (08:42) ===

[01:32:50]  What about George Soros?
[01:32:53]  George Soros is already a subject of attention for the last 20 years.
[01:32:57]  That's not someone who's named, people don't know.
[01:32:59]  And I don't research him because George Soros wasn't the one spying on us when we were going after Tunisia.
[01:33:04]  An interesting thing about George Soros to me is that he is labeled as this guy.
[01:33:11]  He's just like any conspiracy theorist.
[01:33:14]  Automatically wants to talk about George Soros.
[01:33:16]  And you talk about George, if somebody mentions George Soros, at least in my experience, it's like you automatically, like, oh my God, this is a hooking crazy person.
[01:33:24]  This is a crazy conspiracy theorist.
[01:33:25]  Yeah, that's a phenomenon that applies to a lot of things that are, yeah, yeah.
[01:33:29]  Unfortunately, it's one of those things.
[01:33:30]  Is because one hears this guy saying George Soros is going to use the UN to kill all the whites in five years.
[01:33:35]  Like, you know, then the next person you say, Hey, George Soros, like, oh, you're one of those guys.
[01:33:39]  It's the same thing I brought into, but like, with different issues, you know, because Alex Jones has said something once or because whatever the fuck.
[01:33:48]  For some people, they think that that somehow has, you know, well, my friend growing up, he had an older brother who's a little douchebag, hipster, he was into punk rock and all that stuff and into like irony for irony's sake in a really irritating way.
[01:34:01]  And him and his old girlfriend, sometimes they would drive us to the movie theaters and he would listen to the Beach Boys.
[01:34:05]  And my friend, you know, who like me despises his brother for all this douchebag hipster stuff, you know, started hating the Beach Boys.
[01:34:13]  And I told, I said, Caleb, it was Caleb Pritchard.
[01:34:16]  He's now a journalist in Austin.
[01:34:19]  I said, Look, your brother doesn't have the power to make the Beach Boys anything better or worse than they are.
[01:34:24]  Okay.
[01:34:25]  You know, leave the Beach Boys alone.
[01:34:27]  Just because your brother's a douchebag has no effect on the.
[01:34:31]  And I also, but I don't understand there's a principle whereby like a lot of people who like certain bands, let's say, Nickelback, whatever, might be douchebags.
[01:34:38]  And that might, you might be able to develop a framework whereby it's more likely that person may be a douchebag.
[01:34:42]  I get that.
[01:34:43]  But unfortunately, in this society, everything, every statement, every fact, every assertion, especially as of the 2016 election, which luckily I was not in prison for, safely away from, that whole fucking thing, especially since then, you know, everything is seen in context of how it might be used by the opposition.
[01:35:06]  And so I come out of prison and I'm saying, yeah, like Russian intelligence, of course they were involved in this shit.
[01:35:10]  That's what they do.
[01:35:11]  They're very good at it.
[01:35:12]  But also, there were other things involved in this election that have nothing to do with the Russian intelligence, like Cambridge Analytica.
[01:35:17]  By the time I already said Russian intelligence, now I've got people who are invested in the idea that Russia had nothing to do with the election.
[01:35:28]  And they're like, oh, yeah, you're pro CIA.
[01:35:29]  It's like, yeah, I just got a fucking prison.
[01:35:31]  I'm pro CIA.
[01:35:32]  Good job.
[01:35:33]  And if I say, yeah, Hillary Clinton was involved in social justice shit where she destroyed her own stuff.
[01:35:41]  My mom was charged with social justice for much less.
[01:35:44]  And so, yeah, of course, she got a fucking passion in the FBI, from elements of the FBI.
[01:35:48]  And of course, that's going to piss out in the neighborhood.
[01:35:49]  It's like, oh, you like Trump.
[01:35:50]  It's like, no, I, well, at that point, he's president, so I couldn't say what I want to say.
[01:35:56]  But, you know, it just everything is about something else.
[01:36:00]  And this Amber Heard, the Johnny Depp trial, which me and my girlfriend and a few other friends watched very closely because there's some issues there.
[01:36:08]  It's actually very interesting.
[01:36:09]  There's some issues there that are very relevant to me in particular.
[01:36:14]  Right, and uh, actually, so we actually watched the trial.
[01:36:17]  We're like, we know what happened in the trial, we know what was presented, we know, you know, blah blah, and uh, you know, and then after when the verdict comes, you know, now there's people, now there's all these tons of people who believe that they're feminists and believe that they're advocates for survivors of domestic abuse who are saying this is a greatest setback for domestic abuse survivors in history.
[01:36:35]  Well, Johnny Depp's finger was cut off by Amber Heard, uh, according to everyone except for her.
[01:36:41]  Uh, Johnny Depp, you know, she heard her is on tape like saying, you know, then it's like, punch, I punched you, I didn't punch you, I just hit you, you baby.
[01:36:48]  Blah, blah, and like over and over again.
[01:36:50]  Yeah.
[01:36:51]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:36:52]  It just, it just, the evidence was clear.
[01:36:54]  I mean, if we believe women, then we can believe Amber Heard when she said she punched the fuck out of Johnny Jepp over and over again.
[01:36:59]  And there's no evidence to the contrary.
[01:37:01]  So, you know, it's one of those things where I already know when I, if I go public, if I go and say, hey, you know, fucking this was actually a victory for domestic abuse people, you know, violence, or anyone who's had to deal with a borderline personality disorder person.
[01:37:13]  And it's also useful because here's someone on the stand who clearly has these disorders that sometimes.
[01:37:20]  Help people become powerful because they lack all ethics.
[01:37:23]  They can lie.
[01:37:24]  They're willing to lie in ways other people would not believe that one would lie about.
[01:37:28]  You know, it's hard to believe a certain kind of monstrosity.
[01:37:31]  These are people who are in high places, and very rarely do they have to get cross examined in public where everyone can see, where they're forced to, you know, to address their lies and everyone can see what kind of person exists out there.
[01:37:42]  Right.
[01:37:42]  Amber Heard doesn't matter, but there are other people who matter a lot who probably had those same conditions, you know.
[01:37:47]  Anyway, so it's an important trial for that case, but for those reasons.
[01:37:50]  But of course, a lot of people who have seen none of it, who admitted to seeing none of it, you know, have decided that they know all about it.
[01:38:00]  And this is just a metaphor for journalism and for it's a weird thing in the media, too, man.
[01:38:04]  It's a really weird thing in the media because you can almost, it's a thing that I feel like I'm optimistic about a lot of people are becoming more aware of, especially when it comes to like the big corporate media websites in particular.
[01:38:19]  Like, for example, like when I noted when this, when the verdict came out yesterday, it was you can already predetermine which websites, which media entities are going to have.
[01:38:32]  What position on what thing?
[01:38:34]  Like Vice.
[01:38:35]  For the most part, yes.
[01:38:36]  Vice, they were just like shitting on Johnny Depp saying, you know, Amber, you know, he said that he wouldn't want to fucking kill her and fuck her corpse.
[01:38:43]  And he won.
[01:38:44]  Can you believe this fucking asshole won the trial?
[01:38:47]  And then you see the other media outlets, you know, taking the complete opposite position.
[01:38:52]  It's just like there's no logic or critical thinking involved in any of this stuff.
[01:39:03]  It's just, and then there's outliers, then there's unusual.
[01:39:06]  It's just like with the New York Post and a lot of other Murdoch or deals were actually after Johnny Depp as well, even though they're right wing, because Johnny Depp to them or to whoever's telling them to do whatever was representative of Hollywood, limousine, liberals, whatever.
[01:39:18]  And so to them, they thought the strategy would be worthwhile to show, aha, look, you know, it's look at all these, look at these guys who are left wing, even though Depp is not that political openly, but, you know, he's a Hollywood actor.
[01:39:31]  But look at them, look at how they act.
[01:39:33]  You know, that was their, so that's why Daily.
[01:39:34]  That's why, you know, Depp ended up suing a Murdoch owned, you know, right wing paper, The Sun, in the UK a couple years ago and then losing.
[01:39:40]  And then, you know, and then, you know, in the last couple months, a lot of the Fox stations and so forth, local Fox affiliates have had misleading things, you know, attacking Depp.
[01:39:52]  Now some of them are coming around and realize, you know, then of course, but then you have, so there's a mix here.
[01:39:56]  It gets complicated.
[01:39:56]  But yes, for the most part, there are, here's the thing there's a lot of people who are actual feminists and actual advocates for domestic violence who have been on Depp's side.
[01:40:08]  In the last few weeks, last few months, since they've seen this stuff come out and they actually care about these things and the truth.
[01:40:13]  And then there's a bunch who don't.
[01:40:15]  There's a bunch who, you know, who just, again, perhaps if they had actually seen parts of the trial, they would have a different opinion, or perhaps they wouldn't, because perhaps because they think that that doesn't really matter if Johnny Depp was abused and then lied about.
[01:40:29]  What matters is what political implications will that be?
[01:40:33]  How will, you know, how will this be used to discredit women in the future?
[01:40:37]  Like, well, I mean, hopefully it'll be used to distract women who get caught lying about it.
[01:40:41]  I mean, anyway, so it's a great example of the disingenuousness, the obscurantist ballet where facts don't matter.
[01:40:49]  All that matters is gaining an edge in whatever the different kind of culture wars between right and left or between this left wing faction, between trans and turf, or between on the right.
[01:41:04]  That's all that matters to a large number of people.
[01:41:06]  And that is basically the disease our society faces.
[01:41:08]  That's the chief disease, is that.
[01:41:12]  Everyone's arming up.
[01:41:15]  And every fact, every instance, everything that matters is seen primarily for how it can be used in this disingenuous information war that destroys both sides,

=== Soros Funding And Political Division (09:12) ===

[01:41:33]  makes both sides worse, ensures that both sides elevate people who are willing to engage in that kind of thing, and casts out or casts down or ignores those who are on the right saying, hey, maybe Trump isn't a good guy or whatever, or on the left saying, hey, maybe like.
[01:41:47]  You know, a thousand fucking things the left want to acknowledge, you know.
[01:41:51]  And it, and it, yeah, and it, it, it, it's a problem.
[01:41:55]  It makes it difficult if, like, you know, for those who want to, like, discuss these issues and want to refer to the facts of them and want to engage in the kind of civic engagements that we have to have if we're going to have a real society, which we're not going to.
[01:42:10]  Right.
[01:42:12]  Going back to what I was mentioning about George Soros a minute ago.
[01:42:15]  I'm going to let this cat out.
[01:42:17]  This cat, yeah.
[01:42:17]  Let that fucking cat out.
[01:42:19]  Jesus.
[01:42:32]  I never liked cats until I got one about a year and a half ago.
[01:42:38]  Now I like them.
[01:42:39]  They're good.
[01:42:42]  Yeah.
[01:42:43]  Anyways, what I was talking about George Soros is like he's always been to me like this fantastical figure of conspiracy theories, and he was never.
[01:42:53]  Anyone that I considered or even thought about as being a real fucking person because I never really did the research.
[01:43:00]  I just sort of heard of him from these fringe type people or these fringe conspiracy theory type people until I watched an Oliver Stone documentary, which is how I learned about the Hillary Clinton and the DNC being involved with the Ukraine and how Hillary was a part of this NGO that was funded by George Soros.
[01:43:26]  And how they were all connected to the Ukraine and the current president of the Ukraine trying to interfere with the election in 2016.
[01:43:37]  And it's like, wow, like this guy actually does fund these NGOs that are connected to the DNC.
[01:43:45]  And they really didn't want Trump to be president.
[01:43:47]  And they obviously did want Hillary to be president.
[01:43:51]  I mean, yeah.
[01:43:52]  I mean, that's something that's not even a secret.
[01:43:55]  I mean, the larger den's not a secret.
[01:43:57]  George Soros has been very public for.
[01:43:59]  20, 25 years about his vision of the open society, he calls it the Open Society Foundation, which might differ from a lot of ours.
[01:44:07]  He's a centrist.
[01:44:09]  He's a systemist.
[01:44:12]  He believes in working with the systems and whatever.
[01:44:17]  And the Clintons, of course, are what they are.
[01:44:22]  And it ought not be surprising.
[01:44:27]  In terms of things that have occurred that George Soros might be responsible for, the Clintons might be responsible for, that's small beans right there.
[01:44:34]  You know, that kind of that kind of you know, that's uh, it gets much much worse than that.
[01:44:41]  So, you think uh, George Soros doesn't even hold a candlestick to Peter Thiel in terms of uh, sinister and malevolent, sinister uh, intentions and malevolence interfering with government?
[01:44:55]  I couldn't uh, well, uh, I couldn't say simply because I have not, although I've been aware of George Soros for a long time, uh, I've never specialized in him, right?
[01:45:05]  And so, although occasionally I've been people I've had people explain to me.
[01:45:09]  What their concerns are, and Gen 21, and all these different things, you know.
[01:45:12]  And I've had to kind of short through a little bit here and there what is legit, what is not.
[01:45:15]  And, you know, I've never, you know, I've never seen him as someone who, you know, probably, you know, after the Cold War was heavily involved in trying to democratize the countries that had been the former Soviet countries that he had emerged from, you know, that he had emerged from.
[01:45:37]  And also, yeah, obviously, I mean, he's a, He's the kind of figure that comes within the traditions of the American bipartisan consensus.
[01:45:51]  He's just, for me, a very typical figure in that regard, whether it be CIA heads or Nixon or Carter or trilateral commission types or the Clintons or George Bush Sr.
[01:46:09]  He's just, you know.
[01:46:12]  I've always actually kind of been, I've never really understood why he himself has been, you know, obviously he funds, he's a major funder of the DNC and that kind of thing.
[01:46:29]  But it's just, he just doesn't strike me as that much different from, you know, the Rockefellers or whatever.
[01:46:34]  I just don't, you know, I've just never seen the urgency, the exceptions.
[01:46:40]  I mean, he's like the Koch brothers, who I'm also not that interested in.
[01:46:43]  Because the Koch brothers are pretty straightforward, and again, also because the Koch brothers are well known and George Soros is well known.
[01:46:49]  Uh, whereas Peter Thiel and Powell, in terms of the events he's been involved in, uh, because Peter Thiel's company specializes in information and disinformation, they have been able to do a better job of ensuring that number one, a lot of the right, like libertarians, think that he's libertarian, which he's not, and number two, that a lot of the left never heard of him, and that number three, the both the Republicans and Democrats, as they did back in that 2011, will protect him.
[01:47:17]  In 2015, as came out in the Podesta emails, this is something that's never been reported in any outlet that I happened to come across when I went around looking through them when I got to prison.
[01:47:30]  We learned that, number one, we know that the Trump campaign approached Palantir to assist with them in the election, and we know that they did because Peter Till wanted them to.
[01:47:40]  What's not been reported is that the Clinton campaign also approached Palantir for helping the election.
[01:47:47]  Know how powerful Palantir is.
[01:47:49]  What Podesta did not realize is that although Alexander Karp, who's the CEO of Palantir for a while, although he is a centrist Democrat kind of thing or center left or a little bit whatever, Peter Thiel is not.
[01:48:03]  Peter Thiel calls the shots there.
[01:48:05]  That's why the Democrats didn't get help from Palantir, whereas Republicans got a lot of help from Palantir and Peter Thiel, both in a public sense and in a clandestine illicit sense involving Facebook, Cambridge Analytica, the data mining scandal.
[01:48:22]  General Flynn, some of the companies like Archimedes Global that we had looked into, Stratford, General Flynn.
[01:48:31]  It's also one of the reasons why Mueller and Deborah Hath and so forth, when they went and investigated the election, all that.
[01:48:37]  And remember that Mueller Commission was not just to investigate the Russian activity, it was to investigate all activity, all illicit activity interfering with the 2016 election.
[01:48:49]  And in 2017, the Mueller Commission.
[01:48:51]  People leaked to the Washington Post and a few other outlets that they were now looking at a couple of firms, one with White Canvas Group, which was part led by General Flynn.
[01:49:01]  White Canvas Group happened to be one of the firms that we had looked into in 2011, 2012.
[01:49:05]  It was involved in the Romas coin projects that I wrote about in The Guardian in 2011.
[01:49:11]  But beyond that, you never heard about White Canvas Group again.
[01:49:14]  In fact, you heard very little in the Mueller Commission or the press about Palantir, about Archimedes Global, about these firms, because the Mueller Commission was invested in protecting the fact that they enabled these same people in these same companies, that they defended these companies, including White Canvas Group, run.
[01:49:37]  And Aaron Barr, my old arch enemy before Peter Thiel, that they were the ones who protected these groups and went after, sometimes illegally, those of us who were going after these groups.
[01:49:46]  And so after 2017, after that brief period, you see nothing about Flynn's involvement.
[01:49:53]  You see nothing about White Cannabis Group, Powell, and Stratford, because here we have, you know, Miller was Republican traditionally, but of course the Democrats were rooting for him, thinking because they believed the FBI was really going to get at the bottom of the election interference because the FBI has always been a great defender of democracy.
[01:50:12]  So it's again, so what I'm saying is that, yeah, what we're up against is not a, what we're up against is a citrus thing where there are very few Republicans who won't help to protect this secret apparatus and their own selves and their own involvement in it, and very few Democrats who won't.
[01:50:32]  And so the good news, I guess, for those who think that Democrats are the bigger threat, well, there's plenty of those to go after down the line.
[01:50:40]  And the good news for those who think Republicans are the bigger threat, well, there's plenty of those too.

=== Prison Transfer And Morphine (07:36) ===

[01:50:46]  You know, and then we can sort out the other later on.
[01:50:50]  But ultimately, this system and those who have supported its corruption, who have been caught over and over again in the stuff that we've put out, that's come out elsewhere, and the stuff that's going to come out in ways that can be hard to ignore next year, these things have to be responded to.
[01:51:11]  Or we can all just hang it up and go home.
[01:51:12]  You know, we can just spend the next five years just bitching on Twitter.
[01:51:15]  Saying stuff, and uh, meanwhile, companies that are very sophisticated will continue to do what they want to do, and they'll tell us what they want to tell us, and a lot of people will believe it.
[01:51:24]  And uh, those of us who warned about it 10 years ago keep getting proven right, we will be uh, we'll be scrambling for the spotlight, you know, up against MSNBC or Tim Poole, or and you know,
[01:51:40]  you know, do you think you'd be in as extreme in your Way of going about your work if you hadn't gone to prison in the first place?
[01:51:57]  Do you think going to prison for four years changed your outlook at all or changed you at all in any way?
[01:52:06]  Remember, I talked like this the years before I went to prison.
[01:52:11]  It's part of why I went to prison because I was identified by a number of the adversaries.
[01:52:15]  And sometimes we have leaks in which they're talking about this, whether it be Aaron Barr.
[01:52:20]  Uh, some degree Mueller, who bragged about his involvement in the Stratford operation that the FBI led and that led to me and others being in prison.
[01:52:28]  Uh, I was identified, and there's no way of saying this without bragging, as a very severe potential threat given my high penchant for risk, given my ability to gain power within organizations like Anonymous, and given.
[01:52:54]  Yeah, given a number of other elements.
[01:52:57]  So, and again, I was, yes, I was a militant before I went to prison.
[01:53:06]  And I actually relaxed a bit in prison.
[01:53:09]  Well, I got out of prison and I started learning more about who in the press was involved in strangling in the crib, the results of our research and of our leaks and so forth, and how many of them had risen up to the New York Times, New Yorker, so forth, and learn more about who would.
[01:53:27]  Who had stabbed us in the back within our own groups and all that?
[01:53:31]  That's when I really went off the rails.
[01:53:35]  And I've calmed down since then, the last year or so, because I now, things have been set in motion that are going to ensure that no one else is going to have to go through this again.
[01:53:55]  What was your, can you describe what your, How old were you, first of all, when you first went to prison?
[01:54:03]  I guess I was 32, maybe?
[01:54:08]  32.
[01:54:08]  So 10 years ago.
[01:54:09]  No, I must have been 30.
[01:54:12]  Yeah, I was 30.
[01:54:14]  And you said that they sent you to the special housing unit, the SHU, also known as solitary confinement for like six months?
[01:54:22]  Yes.
[01:54:23]  All together.
[01:54:25]  I was in there for a couple of two month stents and then like three or four, like.
[01:54:29]  Weeks, one or two weeks, you know, for different things, including investigations.
[01:54:35]  An investigation into my involvement in a what do they term it?
[01:54:39]  It was an incident.
[01:54:43]  It wasn't a riot, it was a disturbance whereby a number of us refused to go into our cells for lockdown until a certain officer was removed from our unit and not brought back.
[01:54:58]  This officer had threatened an old man, and the different races got together.
[01:55:03]  And the gang got together and said, you know, yeah, we don't like this.
[01:55:10]  We're on guard.
[01:55:11]  So I made a standoff, and me and a few others were identified by them as the ringleaders.
[01:55:16]  And so held for two months in the shoe, and then released with our commissary things.
[01:55:21]  The punishment, of course, was being held in the shoe.
[01:55:26]  And then another incident where they had found morphine in my bloodstream when they gave me random drug tests and all that.
[01:55:30]  And I went to the shoe again.
[01:55:31]  And that was when they transferred me.
[01:55:32]  Another incident where they found morphine in your bloodstream?
[01:55:36]  Yeah.
[01:55:37]  What was that prison, dude?
[01:55:38]  Smuggled in?
[01:55:40]  I mean, well, in this case, this was, I mean, morphine.
[01:55:43]  So there's a medical unit.
[01:55:45]  Okay.
[01:55:46]  You got it.
[01:55:46]  It was a low security prison in Fort Worth.
[01:55:49]  I was at.
[01:55:49]  It was a terrible, disgusting little prison.
[01:55:52]  Anyway, and there was the medical unit.
[01:55:53]  So a lot of the disease, dying, older inmates, and all that.
[01:55:58]  And there's people who work in the medical unit, and there's morphine and other painkillers.
[01:56:03]  And those morphine painkillers make their way out of that area and back to those of us who will.
[01:56:08]  Who will trade, who will buy them?
[01:56:10]  And yeah, then they take my blood and I have morphine.
[01:56:15]  And then another time, this is actually captured, there's a short documentary on YouTube called Relatively Free that Alex Winter did.
[01:56:24]  Yeah, I saw that.
[01:56:25]  Yeah, and at the beginning, you know, I'm pulled off the phone for talking to him and put in the shoe for two weeks and, you know, other similar incidents.
[01:56:34]  Oh, yeah, I was doing an interview with a reporter in Houston and again, pulled off while they investigated to see if that was against the rules, which of course it wasn't.
[01:56:41]  Blah, blah, blah.
[01:56:42]  Well, so I added six months altogether, but usually not in solitary.
[01:56:45]  There's too much overcrowding for that.
[01:56:49]  You almost always have a cellmate in the shoe.
[01:56:52]  Oh, really?
[01:56:53]  You and I, yeah, you and some guy living together in a small room, uh, about this size for uh, you know, a month, two months longer, yeah.
[01:57:02]  And that was the documentary when where they basically pick your parents up and you're riding your parents, Alex Winter and the film crew, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:57:11]  I'm gonna drive to Dallas, we had a few hours to get there, uh, otherwise, I'd be listed as because they estimate how long it should take to get there.
[01:57:18]  The first estimate they gave me was it should take two and a half hours.
[01:57:23]  Uh, that was incorrect, it actually takes five hours to drive from them, so.
[01:57:27]  They were trying to, yeah.
[01:57:29]  And so I had to go through the whole thing with them before my release and be like, no, that's not, we're not set to that.
[01:57:34]  If you put that down as two hours, I'm going to go ahead and anyway.
[01:57:36]  So they allowed us six hours, but we still had to get there in time.
[01:57:40]  We'd arrive at the halfway house in time, or I'd be listed as an escapee.
[01:57:45]  They don't make it easy for people who get out of prison to get back on their feet.
[01:57:50]  They make it especially hard for certain of us.
[01:57:51]  I mean, there's some they don't, you know, again, there's a reason I got six months, I got six months halfway house, which is much more than most inmates get.
[01:57:58]  And the reason for that is the same reason that one prison kicked me out of the prison, sent me to another prison.
[01:58:03]  Same reason that that prison also tried to kick me out, sent me to another prison.
[01:58:06]  The BP wouldn't allow it.
[01:58:08]  And it's the same reason, you know, because they don't want me there because I'm writing about the prison and starting up trouble.
[01:58:13]  So for me, that's why I got six months at Halfway House because I was, you know, they wanted me out of there.
[01:58:20]  They were, you know, which I understand.

=== Harassment After My Arrest (14:20) ===

[01:58:22]  I'm an investigative journalist, an anarchist, agitator.
[01:58:25]  I'm in the middle of their prison.
[01:58:26]  You know, some of the guards are talking to me about their superiors that they don't like, you know.
[01:58:30]  Yeah.
[01:58:31]  And so forth.
[01:58:32]  So, can you explain?
[01:58:36]  I found this very interesting part of that.
[01:58:38]  I don't know if this was that.
[01:58:39]  I think it was a different thing that I saw where you're explaining, I believe it was called the Pursuant Project.
[01:58:46]  Yep.
[01:58:48]  Can you explain that?
[01:58:51]  Yeah.
[01:58:51]  The Pursuant Project was a nonprofit I started when I got out.
[01:58:56]  I used a couple thousand dollars from my book advance to get started and then did a crowdfunding later on.
[01:59:02]  We were trying to build something that I've been hoping that Project PM itself, before it became what it became, an investigation into the intelligence community, was originally set up to do.
[01:59:13]  Was to create a software apparatus that would allow mass self-organization among a certain constituency of people in a way that would maximize efficiency.
[01:59:34]  Essentially, create a new and superior form of democracy, which I call process democracy as opposed to institutional democracy.
[01:59:43]  It's not something I can effectively or viably explain further in a brief amount of time.
[01:59:49]  But it's something there's some speeches I've given on it, presentations that are on YouTube.
[01:59:55]  But the nonprofit I established was infiltrated, it turns out, very quickly, which I should have expected by a number of people.
[02:00:05]  You know, and aside from that, was uh attacked publicly.
[02:00:08]  NPR uh did a profile on me in 2018 and on Pursuance, claiming that Pursuance was a criminal uh organization uh that was involved, uh, let people hire hackers to hack things.
[02:00:23]  And my probation officer came and visited me a couple days later.
[02:00:26]  And uh, the NPR eventually had to issue a bunch of corrections to that article, about 15 of them, um, including uh claims they made that Stratford, the company that I've been involved, you know, that I had known about the hack of and went down for.
[02:00:37]  That it had somehow been involved in the bin Laden raid and that the hack of it had somehow interfered with that.
[02:00:44]  Stratford had told NPR that because Stratford works with NPR both publicly and privately.
[02:00:49]  We know that from Stratford's emails we have stolen, so we have their communications with NPR.
[02:00:53]  And some of their.
[02:00:54]  Anyway, so that kind of stuff, it was the same kind of stuff that was used against Project PM both before and after I went to prison.
[02:01:02]  And endangered, undistinguished, but sometimes led to help assisted in prosecutions or whatever people I worked with.
[02:01:10]  And so that was my first clue that things were going to be difficult.
[02:01:15]  Also, I had a lot of personal problems.
[02:01:17]  My CPTSD was kicking in.
[02:01:19]  I was in a relationship with someone who had.
[02:01:22]  Mortal Impersonal Disorder.
[02:01:25]  Not as bad as fucking Amber Heard.
[02:01:26]  But anyway, a lot of shit happened.
[02:01:29]  And the DOJ was also preventing me from being paid by my publisher for the first seven months because they claimed they had to figure out how much I owed restitution to Stratford.
[02:01:38]  A lot of shit was going down.
[02:01:40]  Then also, I did articles on the Botham Gene shooting by Amber Geiger, a white police officer in Dallas.
[02:01:47]  And a month later, I started getting there's a bomb threat made to the magazine that I wrote for.
[02:01:51]  Again, if people look up the Bear Brown bomb threat, they can see a little bit about that.
[02:01:55]  I had to investigate this bomb threat itself.
[02:01:57]  Because the Dallas press, including my own editor, at the instructions of the Dallas police, kept it quiet.
[02:02:06]  And then the same person who made the bomb threat under his own name on Facebook continued to send, as I mentioned, threats over and over again to my girlfriend.
[02:02:16]  And even threatened to assassinate Beto O'Rourke, the Senate candidate, governor, whatever the fuck.
[02:02:27]  Unlike me, when I said I was shooting FBI agents who came to my house, this person.
[02:02:31]  Who the Secret Service would have come after because it did a bit of work with the Prince of Canada at that point, never got arrested.
[02:02:39]  In fact, the police claimed they arrested and charged them.
[02:02:41]  They claimed that to my city councilman, Philip Kingston, who forwarded me the email, and then were caught in other audio recordings admitting otherwise.
[02:02:50]  And eventually, I, if anyone, anyway, there's a bunch of recordings I met.
[02:02:56]  I eventually caught up with all these police officers and police officials, the head of the police department in Dallas and all that, the head of the police association in Dallas, and recorded them.
[02:03:05]  And again, got them to talk to me.
[02:03:09]  They violated, you know, there's a rule that you shouldn't never talk to cops.
[02:03:15]  And there's another rule that cops shouldn't talk to like meta cops, which is kind of what I am.
[02:03:21]  And they did anyway.
[02:03:22]  And so now, as you'll see in my book when it comes out, or if you want to put the manuscript, we've got a lot of them dead to rights on this.
[02:03:29]  Anyway, so yeah, Pursuance didn't do well.
[02:03:31]  Again, I was not a very good leader of an actual nonprofit.
[02:03:36]  We were under a lot of.
[02:03:39]  A lot of pressure from and one of the people, at least one of the people who was brought on without my knowledge, was the same person who had written an article about me after my arrest, claiming that I was a hacker and that I was probably an FBI cooperator.
[02:03:54]  This person was brought on to work at Pursuance, which was a media reform organization.
[02:03:59]  Later on, we found out more about this person who goes by Raincoaster on Twitter.
[02:04:03]  It's Lorraine, whatever.
[02:04:05]  She'd also done a lot of other things for the Daily Dot, other vastly Inappropriate and probably illegal stuff in the course of her reporting to the outlet.
[02:04:19]  And also, cooperative, and also was a good friend with some of the FBI cooperators who went up against me and against the now dead Kevin Gallagher.
[02:04:27]  That's what's one of the people who infiltrated the group.
[02:04:30]  Then there's Susie Dawson, who we don't know what her deal is, but she's someone that even Assange considers crazy, as was leaked in some of his messages.
[02:04:41]  But anyway, so just a lot of stuff happened.
[02:04:45]  And again, the guy we hired to build the software, to be the lead developer, I didn't want to fire him first because I'm just kind of a softy, bizarrely enough.
[02:04:57]  But like our several, my core nonprofit associates, Annalise Burkhart and Claire Peters, readily insisted that he be gotten rid of.
[02:05:09]  And a lot of our volunteer coders, Insisted that this guy be got rid of.
[02:05:13]  Scott, his name is Steve Phillips.
[02:05:16]  And so we got rid of him.
[02:05:17]  We paid him a little bit extra money, you know, and then he went about engaging in some behavior, some activity to undermine the group.
[02:05:27]  And it was just one thing after, there's just tons of things that happened.
[02:05:30]  So, and then an article came out in Der Spiegel, German outlet, which has written seven articles about me, some of which contradict each other.
[02:05:36]  My favorite one is one in 2014 that says that Barrett Brown might not have to go to jail after all.
[02:05:41]  When, of course, I'd already been in jail for two years.
[02:05:45]  It just, again, people are incompetent.
[02:05:48]  In the very beginning of 2020, I think, there's people put out an article claiming Barrett Brown used to be something, something.
[02:05:58]  Now he spreads conspiracy theories and harasses women.
[02:06:02]  And they never pointed out which women I harassed.
[02:06:08]  I asked the author, I got in touch with her, and said, hey, can you tell me more about my conspiracy theories, what they are, and who I harassed?
[02:06:14]  And as far as we can tell, they're referring to Claire Lamont, the head of Quillette.
[02:06:19]  Quillette is an outlet that is funded by Peter Thiel.
[02:06:25]  And Claire Lamont had publicly claimed that I was harassing another Peter Thiel associate when I posted on Twitter.
[02:06:33]  There's an article about this as well.
[02:06:37]  Just look up Barrett Brown, Claire Lamont, or Barrett Brown Quillette, or Barrett Brown, you know, Twitter band.
[02:06:44]  Claimed that I was harassing a woman that worked with Peter Thiel when I. Posted on Twitter saying, Does anyone have any information on this person's name?
[02:06:52]  So, again, so like, so and uh, Der Spiegel and Der Spiegel changed the sub headline, didn't issue any correction, didn't acknowledge they changed it, uh, but never came close to uh, issuing an apology or correction or or again, even identifying what woman it was that I harassed supposedly.
[02:07:12]  Uh, at that point, I wrote an article for Counterpunch, which is an outlet that I'm very close to, just saying, Hey, uh.
[02:07:19]  I'm done pursuing, I'm closing pursuance down for now until I can better protect it.
[02:07:23]  Between this, Joseph, I'm not going to have my people and myself go down the same road where any fucking reporter feels comfortable working with my powerful enemies to write libel about me or to claim, like NPR did, that all of our volunteers and people who had signed up, 2,000 people had signed up for pursuance, that they were hackers or involved in criminal activity.
[02:07:48]  I'm not going to do that, I'm going to close it down.
[02:07:50]  And I will read, you know, we'll get back to this effort to create this structure, this framework for mass, you know, for civic collaboration, for crowdsourced journalism, all these things, when I feel that I'm able to defend it as viciously as possible from those who keep getting away with making it easier for the police to come after us.
[02:08:21]  And so close it down at that point.
[02:08:23]  Wow.
[02:08:25]  You know, it's funny.
[02:08:27]  I just recently did an interview with a guy who was involved in a lawsuit with Hulk Hogan regarding his sex tape.
[02:08:37]  And he was talking about how Peter Thiel.
[02:08:39]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:08:40]  I know about this.
[02:08:41]  Yeah.
[02:08:41]  So I had him on my podcast like two, like three weeks ago or whatever.
[02:08:44]  And he was talking, you know, talking about how Peter Thiel funded Hogan to take down Gawker and basically dissolve Gawker.
[02:08:54]  Do you know why?
[02:08:55]  And that's that.
[02:08:58]  The really funny thing about that is that Gawker back in 2011, 2012, that's where Adrian Chin and John Cook and Sam Biddle, who worked for their other thing, Gizmodo, that was the place that.
[02:09:12]  That was the outlet where originated a lot of the false claims about me that they would later be changed in different forms or picked up by other outlets.
[02:09:24]  And where Adrian Chin at Gawker and others made fun of me for my interest in Palantir and Peter Thiel, saying that the emails that we have were, quote, boring, unquote, is Adrian Chin.
[02:09:39]  So I found out from prison that Peter Thiel, the person that they had, you know, not worried about, Had successfully managed to close down their whole fucking operation.
[02:09:48]  Well, I heard that it was because he had like a grudge against them because they put the.
[02:09:52]  No, no, they did.
[02:09:52]  They added him.
[02:09:53]  Yeah, no, no.
[02:09:54]  Again, they added him, you know, and blah, blah.
[02:09:56]  But what I'm saying is that, like, you know, they didn't consider Peter Shield to be a threat to, like, you know, media, free speech.
[02:10:04]  Well, in fact, I mean, some of them did.
[02:10:07]  Maybe they may have, but some of them were almost certainly working with the FBI at this point.
[02:10:12]  Adrian Chin's one of them.
[02:10:13]  Right.
[02:10:15]  I say this because he comes up in the discovery files, me and Jeremy Hammond, and engages in what would be the kind of things that would be crimes if we had done them, including trying to buy stolen emails from anonymous hackers, which is well beyond what I was prosecuted for.
[02:10:36]  Anyway, there's a lot more to that, too, the Adrian Chen thing.
[02:10:42]  Anyone who looks at my Twitter at ProjPM, they'll notice a few hours ago I just Welcomed Adrian Chin back to Twitter.
[02:10:49]  He had been away for two years and just reminded him of some certain things and some screenshots I have.
[02:10:56]  Anyway, the funny thing is that they had done, because these attacks on me that started to gawker, because they spread around to the New York Times, the Atlantic, all these other outlets, it helped not only to discredit me and to make it easier for the FBI to come in and to be ignored or seen as.
[02:11:18]  Initially, as less than what it was.
[02:11:25]  And because they protected Peter Thiel in that way from further scrutiny, they helped to create the conditions whereby a few years later they'd all be out of jobs because Peter Thiel was mad at them for this other thing.
[02:11:40]  And so I had a good laugh about that from prison when I heard of it.
[02:11:45]  It would be sad otherwise if Gawker were like an actual organization that.
[02:11:52]  Was not fucking garbage.
[02:11:53]  Like, he wasn't mad at Peter Teal.
[02:11:55]  In this case, I was like, you know what?
[02:11:58]  Good job, Peter Teal.
[02:12:02]  Are you actively trying to avoid being banned from Twitter?
[02:12:08]  Are you just not giving a fuck in your daily interactions?
[02:12:11]  No, I am trying not to because when the book comes out, I want to be able to best make the best positions to help market it and so forth, make sure it's read, make sure the contents are seen, make sure it's discussed, make sure.
[02:12:25]  The journalists and other media professionals who make up the chief villains of the book, even beyond Peter Thiel, make sure that they had the least chance of being able to escape scrutiny or hide from this shit, as they've been doing for years.

=== Psychological Warfare Against Enemies (03:11) ===

[02:12:43]  And so I want to keep that Twitter account, yes.
[02:12:46]  Is there any chance when your book comes out, you would come to the U.S. to help promote it?
[02:12:52]  If I came with about 30,000 Mombasa mercenaries and we were heavily armed and fucking restorming a beach and fucking had a Yeah, absolutely.
[02:13:01]  Unless I have that, no.
[02:13:02]  That's hilarious, man.
[02:13:04]  Jesus Christ.
[02:13:05]  What a life you live, man.
[02:13:07]  I know it's not a joke.
[02:13:08]  I know you're serious.
[02:13:09]  You're serious as a heart attack.
[02:13:15]  Anyways, thank you for doing this.
[02:13:18]  It's been an incredible conversation.
[02:13:19]  I've learned a lot.
[02:13:22]  Tell people who are watching and listening where they can learn more about you or find what you're doing actively.
[02:13:28]  I know you just mentioned your Twitter, but is there anywhere else people can find you?
[02:13:32]  Your work and you know other things that you've published and things of that sort.
[02:13:36]  Yeah, they should look up Barrett Brown on Google, they'll find a Wikipedia page and a bunch of stuff.
[02:13:40]  They'll find some links to column, you know, my prison columns, the one that won all the awards, everyone liked, and all that.
[02:13:45]  Uh, at prop p r o j p m, that's my Twitter account.
[02:13:50]  And uh, you know, you stroll down through that, you'll find lots of um, you'll you'll you'll you'll get more of a sense of why I'm an active target, uh, of not just governments, but um.
[02:14:06]  Yeah, a lot of other things.
[02:14:10]  But again, hopefully, that Twitter account will be quite active.
[02:14:16]  I mean, I'm going to be posting things in the next six months.
[02:14:23]  If you look at the pins tweet there about the book release and what else is going to accompany that, you'll get a sense that one of my intentions is to engage in a degree of psychological warfare against some people that are in the book.
[02:14:39]  Are reminding them that they're in the book.
[02:14:40]  The book's coming out.
[02:14:41]  The book will be sent to people in a position to act on these things.
[02:14:48]  Dallas is a good example.
[02:14:50]  Anyway, bottom line is that if people want to have some fun, they'll enjoy watching my Twitter account over the next six months.
[02:14:58]  And they'll enjoy when the book comes out, whether they buy it or not.
[02:15:05]  The information itself will be mentioned in a number of outlets.
[02:15:10]  You know, online outlets and so forth.
[02:15:13]  And so no one has to pay a dime just to see the shit go down.
[02:15:17]  Are you doing an audio version?
[02:15:18]  If they want to get the book, they'll enjoy it.
[02:15:20]  Are you going to do an audio version for people like me that can't read?
[02:15:23]  In fact, they were going to have me do the voiceover, it was going to be done by me.
[02:15:26]  By me.
[02:15:27]  They were going to have me go out to LA to do that back in January 2020 before COVID started.
[02:15:31]  And then, you know, blah, blah.
[02:15:33]  So I'm assuming I'm still going to be the one reading the audio version.
[02:15:38]  And of course, there'll be a Kindle version and all that too.
[02:15:40]  Right.
[02:15:41]  Well, cool, man.
[02:15:42]  I'm really looking forward to it.
[02:15:43]  And I'm going to be paying attention to your Twitter account as well for the next six months.
[02:15:47]  I'm looking forward to getting your book when it comes out.
[02:15:51]  Thanks again for doing this.
[02:15:52]  I really appreciate it.
[02:15:53]  No problem.
[02:15:54]  Thanks for having me on.