Danny Jones Podcast - #131 - Real Life Limitless Drug: How to Rewire Your Brain Micro-Dosing Psilocybin | Joe & Chris Claussen
Aired: 2022-04-04
Duration: 01:22:06


=== Family History of Alzheimer's (05:40) ===

[00:00:08]  So, tell me about first person.
[00:00:10]  What is, well, first, I guess, give me a little bit of background on how you guys got into this world of mushrooms.
[00:00:18]  Yeah, you bet.
[00:00:20]  Joe and I got into this world because of a history of Alzheimer's in our family, actually, dating back to when we were younger and our grandfather, we saw our grandfather go through it.
[00:00:32]  He was.
[00:00:33]  you know, kind of an idol of mine because he was an entrepreneur and businessman and very successful.
[00:00:39]  And then we saw him go downhill mentally through Alzheimer's.
[00:00:43]  And then fast forward years later and our dad started doing the same thing.
[00:00:47]  And then Joe and I and our brothers just got together and said, we got to change this for ourselves, right?
[00:00:52]  And we just started exploring the different ways to protect your brain over the long run and learning about it and going to conferences and led us to functional mushrooms like lion's mane, which is really important for brain health.
[00:01:07]  and eventually into psychedelic mushrooms, which have the potential to be a holy grail of brain health as it really improves your brain's neuroplasticity and neural connections.
[00:01:22]  Yeah, I watched a documentary last night all about, you know, I guess the first therapeutic therapy that was, or the first therapy that was researched for psychedelic mushrooms was to cure depression.
[00:01:33]  Is that right?
[00:01:34]  There's been a lot of research from PTSD, depression, anxiety, phantom limb pain.
[00:01:41]  There's a lot of research going on currently right now about all these different topics, for sure.
[00:01:46]  They were using, you know, doing studies back in the 50s and 60s on these compounds before it was, you know, kind of the war on drugs started in the 1970s and all of the ban really happened in like 1973 when all of the research on psychedelics stopped.
[00:02:00]  So we've had like a 40-year hiatus, almost 50-year hiatus from research, but they started cranking that back up a few years ago.
[00:02:07]  They started allowing some studies to be done, and this is those studies that Chris was referencing on.
[00:02:12]  ADHD, depression, and the one you're referencing on depression, Johns Hopkins did on people with terminal illness and untreatable depression.
[00:02:21]  So these guys had depression, anxiety about their impending mortality that was untreatable with any over-the-counter prescription drugs, right?
[00:02:30]  Anything, nothing touched it.
[00:02:32]  They threw everything at it.
[00:02:33]  And these people were miserable.
[00:02:34]  They couldn't sleep, you know, and then with cognitive behavioral therapy and high-dose psilocybin treatment, they found efficacy rates of upwards of 80%.
[00:02:45]  After a treatment for these people, they were then completely okay with the fact that they were going to die and they lived the rest of their days happy and content and were able to reconnect with their families and weren't just living in misery and fear, which is 80% amazing.
[00:03:03]  Like nothing, nothing, no drugs have anything near that.
[00:03:06]  It's pretty amazing.
[00:03:07]  So you brought me these things, these three products of yours.
[00:03:13]  Yes.
[00:03:14]  What are these?
[00:03:16]  Can you explain what these are?
[00:03:18]  Definitely.
[00:03:19]  So, the first one is the yellow.
[00:03:21]  Yeah, that's Sunbeam.
[00:03:22]  The Sunbeam.
[00:03:23]  Sunbeam.
[00:03:24]  What kind of mushrooms are in these?
[00:03:25]  That one has lion's mane and cordyceps, as well as some other botanicals and ingredients in it.
[00:03:31]  And it's designed specifically to enhance your dopamine system.
[00:03:36]  Okay.
[00:03:37]  Dopamine is responsible for reward and motivation.
[00:03:41]  So, that's like a classic.
[00:03:43]  Take two?
[00:03:43]  Take two, yeah.
[00:03:44]  That's a classic what you would take to get you going.
[00:03:49]  Get work done, be motivated.
[00:03:52]  And it's all of our formulations were designed towards specific neurotransmitters for a specific purpose.
[00:04:01]  Where a lot of things that are in the cognitive field are a little bit kitchen sink, they just kind of throw everything at it and say, Hey, this is good for your brain.
[00:04:09]  Ours are targeted specifically at dopamine and the oxytocin on the Golden Hour, the one you have in your hand now.
[00:04:17]  Okay.
[00:04:17]  Yeah.
[00:04:18]  It's kind of a unique product that's there's really nothing like that out on the market.
[00:04:23]  And the concept was.
[00:04:25]  Hey, let's have something that you could take that would give you a relaxed, alert focus and with a lot more happy and connection, like oxytocin, similar to kind of what an MDMA would do, right?
[00:04:42]  And really pumped that after we got through the formulations and tried them for the first time, that really, really did work and real pleased with that product.
[00:04:51]  And you can stack those two things together.
[00:04:55]  The initial feedback we got from a lot of customers is that the stack of the both of them together. feels a lot like a microdose, like a psilocybin microdose, which was surprising.
[00:05:04]  We weren't really expecting that.
[00:05:06]  I've tried it myself and I can say, yeah, it does kind of feel that way.
[00:05:11]  These formulations were designed to stay away from the serotonin receptors, which psilocybin affects the serotonin receptors.
[00:05:22]  So these formulations towards oxytocin, towards dopamine, and towards GABA for the sleep leaves open to serotonin receptors for those who might be doing a microdose protocol.
[00:05:33]  Okay.
[00:05:35]  And I brought my own microdose of psilocybin, and I should.
[00:05:40]  You recommended I take this with the Sunbeam and the Golden Hour, right?
[00:05:45]  It's a very nice stack.
[00:05:46]  This is the first time I've ever ate mushrooms, so.
[00:05:48]  Bottoms up.

=== Finding Flow with Mushrooms (16:02) ===

[00:05:49]  Cheers.
[00:05:50]  Cheers.
[00:05:51]  First time you've had mushrooms ever?
[00:05:53]  Mm hmm.
[00:05:55]  Well, first time I've had magic mushrooms, yeah.
[00:05:58]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:05:59]  Psilocybin.
[00:06:00]  Right.
[00:06:00]  But I've done so much, I've read so much about it and watched so much.
[00:06:04]  So many documentaries about it.
[00:06:05]  I've always wanted to.
[00:06:06]  I've always just been scared.
[00:06:07]  Right.
[00:06:08]  Yeah.
[00:06:08]  There's a lot of fear out there.
[00:06:09]  There's a lot of unknown and there's a lot of misinformation.
[00:06:13]  And a lot of that comes from, you know, that the hippie 60s and 70s and all of that psychedelia around that.
[00:06:21]  But particularly in a microdose, it's not something that you're going to have visualizations.
[00:06:26]  It's just really a boost of mental cognition.
[00:06:31]  And it's proving out to really improve your neural connections.
[00:06:35]  It's great for creativity.
[00:06:37]  It is also great.
[00:06:39]  for just boosting your brain power over time.
[00:06:41]  So we've been microdosing for quite a while, and I think my brain is functioning at the highest level it ever has in my life right now.
[00:06:49]  Wow.
[00:06:50]  And going back to where it started is we both had several injuries throughout.
[00:06:56]  We played high school football, and we know that going in, looking at Alzheimer's dementia, that we were like, okay, this is scary because Chris got knocked out a couple times.
[00:07:06]  I was knocked out.
[00:07:07]  I also had a traumatic brain injury and a snowboarding accident.
[00:07:11]  Where I fractured my skull in three places and broke my C3 vertebrae and my neck.
[00:07:14]  It was a rapid deceleration onto a rock with my face.
[00:07:19]  So I was really interested in trying to fix that damage.
[00:07:23]  You know, I knew that I had CTE and those, you know, make you much more susceptible to developing dementia as you age if you've had numerous traumatic brain injuries.
[00:07:34]  I mean, you just have to look at football players, all these NFL players that have had these problems, gone off the deep end as they're getting aging.
[00:07:43]  And Hernandez killed some people.
[00:07:45]  And some pretty crazy stuff happened from these traumatic brain injuries repeatedly throughout their lives.
[00:07:51]  And so that's scary.
[00:07:52]  So that kind of really was another motivation factor for me personally is why I started getting into psychedelics.
[00:07:58]  I really wanted to try to reconnect those neural connections that were damaged in my traumatic brain injury.
[00:08:04]  The scary thing about CTE, I mean, I know a lot of people who've had a lot of brain injuries, and those aren't the type of people.
[00:08:09]  I mean, most of them just want to drink alcohol.
[00:08:13]  Worst thing you do.
[00:08:14]  You know, I mean, when you have those kind of injuries, or if it's even PTSD, a lot of those guys tend to more like, you know, they're more apt to abuse alcohol in my experience.
[00:08:24]  And those aren't the kind of people who are more open minded about like smoking weed or psychedelics or MDMA or that kind of thing.
[00:08:31]  You know, it's very rare, you know, and I've had the opportunity to expose some of my friends who have had like brain injuries to things like that.
[00:08:37]  Just marijuana or MDMA, and they've had an incredible amount of recovery from it, and they've experienced a lot of benefit from it.
[00:08:48]  I'm not sure about long term because it hasn't been that much of a time gap.
[00:08:52]  But have you, like, what are the studies?
[00:08:58]  Like, have there been any long term clinical studies on psilocybin when it comes to brain health or PTSD or CTE even?
[00:09:07]  Because I think, is it true that CTE you can't even diagnose it until the person's dead?
[00:09:10]  I think so, yeah.
[00:09:12]  That's it, right?
[00:09:12]  Autopsy.
[00:09:13]  It was like kind of going and seeing the damage.
[00:09:15]  Yeah.
[00:09:15]  You know, there's better brain scans where you can see loss of blood flow and stuff using fMRIs.
[00:09:21]  But I don't know if they can give an actual diagnosis of CT without an autopsy.
[00:09:26]  Okay.
[00:09:27]  Yeah.
[00:09:27]  The studies are undergoing really right now.
[00:09:30]  So they're evolving as far as, like Joe mentioned earlier, it's only been, you know, over the last few years that the studies have fired back up.
[00:09:38]  But the initial reports coming back are very promising around neuroplasticity and increasing your brain cells and increasing your connections and your dendrite spines on your synapses that are how we think, right?
[00:09:54]  And these things are growing stronger with microdosing of psychedelics over time is what it's showing.
[00:10:02]  And back to the people drinking alcohol and stuff like that.
[00:10:06]  A lot of that stuff is really blunting.
[00:10:09]  You're just trying to forget all your issues, right?
[00:10:14]  Along with antidepressants, really.
[00:10:15]  So the a good promise of of what's uh good about psychedelics, is it?
[00:10:21]  It helps you deal with your issues rather than just blunt them and put them aside.
[00:10:27]  So there's a there's a great possibility that in a future where, as people have these problems, they're able to accept these problems and move on from them, rather than a constant medication over years just to try to forget about it, or self-medicate with alcohol or drugs, other drugs or weed or whatever.
[00:10:48]  But psychedelics give you the ability to deal with your issues.
[00:10:53]  Yeah.
[00:10:55]  A lot of the people that I know that kind of push back on the idea of trying psychedelics or even marijuana are people that like to be in control.
[00:11:06]  And their whole argument is against it.
[00:11:08]  Like, I don't like smoking being high because I feel like I'm out of control or I can't control myself.
[00:11:14]  But they drink.
[00:11:14]  But they drink.
[00:11:15]  And then they might smoke cigarettes or they drink coffee.
[00:11:18]  Right.
[00:11:19]  Of course.
[00:11:19]  But the, I mean, the art, I mean, my whole thing is that like when, as far as marijuana, for example, it gives you, if you, as long as you get to the point where you're kind of like, for me personally, if I can get high to the point where I'm kind of on the fence of being like in hell or like meeting the devil or like going too far and like kind of being in like a balance of not being too high to where I have like, I'm like having a bad trip, I can,
[00:11:49]  it gives me a, Alternative perspective on life, or gives me kind of a way to deal with the normal problems in my life from a different perspective, or look at the normal everyday problems I'm experiencing on a subconscious level from a whole new perspective that I never would have thought of if I'm just going about my life on like the daily vibration.
[00:12:08]  It gets you off of like the daily vibration of life.
[00:12:10]  Psychedelics take that to the next level.
[00:12:13]  Even at a microdose, it gives you like almost more empathy for yourself and for others, makes you more tolerant. of situations and people.
[00:12:25]  And at a macro dose, you get ego disillusionment.
[00:12:29]  So like your ego dissolves.
[00:12:31]  So the little, that's what's hard for people when they take a macro dose, right?
[00:12:34]  They feel anxious and nervous.
[00:12:36]  And because when you first do that, it's very unnerving.
[00:12:40]  And people think, oh, I'm dying.
[00:12:42]  But you're not dying.
[00:12:43]  Your ego is dying.
[00:12:44]  You're separating, your brain is now separating itself from this little story that you've been telling yourself about yourself.
[00:12:49]  And your thoughts aren't really you, right?
[00:12:52]  You know, your thoughts, you should be the observer of your thoughts.
[00:12:55]  Your thoughts come and go.
[00:12:56]  They're not really who you are.
[00:12:58]  You know, so it allows you to give that perspective.
[00:13:01]  So it totally allows you to see yourself from a new perspective.
[00:13:04]  Right.
[00:13:05]  Which is, that's hard to understand unless you've really experienced it, I feel like.
[00:13:09]  It is.
[00:13:09]  It is.
[00:13:09]  But you've probably got it partway there with marijuana.
[00:13:14]  Whereas the activation in your brain that you're getting with psilocybin is, will take that definitely to the next level.
[00:13:22]  If you like, if you were really interested in seeing yourself outside of your, the little story that you've been telling yourself your whole life, mushrooms can get you there for sure.
[00:13:32]  For somebody who's never tried psilocybin or never even tried microdosing, what would be the benefits of microdosing?
[00:13:40]  And say you're just like, you know, the average everyday person who works in an office, they're in sales or whatever they're in, or they're like an entrepreneur, they're a small business owner.
[00:13:48]  What is the benefit of venturing into microdosing?
[00:13:53]  It's really about brain health and performance, right?
[00:13:56]  All of our products are around brain health and performance and it's centered around the potential of future legalization of microdosing for that reason.
[00:14:04]  But it kind of got fired back up as a microdose in the tech industry in Silicon Valley as those workers were using it for productivity and creativity on creating these new products over the course of the last 15 years.
[00:14:19]  And so, and it has spread out from there and people were realizing it like, hey, this, my brain fog is kind of going away.
[00:14:26]  I'm thinking better.
[00:14:28]  I'm reacting.
[00:14:29]  I have better relationships with my family and my coworkers as I'm microdosing.
[00:14:34]  So You know, for us, for our purpose, it's really about being the best human being we can be through our cognition, right?
[00:14:46]  And that's why we started microdosing, and that's why we continue to do it.
[00:14:52]  So obviously it eliminates the brain fog.
[00:14:56]  And through brain scans, you guys have been able to see dark areas become lightened up or like blood flow.
[00:15:05]  Or what is the actual science behind how it affects the brain?
[00:15:09]  There's some really interesting research being done on that where they're doing fMRIs, which really shows the blood flow to the brain and the activity of the brain.
[00:15:16]  Yeah, I wish I had some slides to show you because there's some really cool stuff there.
[00:15:19]  I'm sure we could Google some slides.
[00:15:21]  Oh, yeah.
[00:15:22]  It's amazing.
[00:15:23]  So like the brain, a normal firing brain and then the brain on psilocybin and it's just colors.
[00:15:29]  It's just bang.
[00:15:30]  So it allows, what's interesting about these serotonin compounds is that they allow your brain cells to communicate laterally.
[00:15:42]  So they say neural connections that, That fire together, wire together.
[00:15:47]  So you have habitual behaviors that, so those neurons, those pathways are very secure and they run down the same pathway over and over.
[00:15:55]  These are like addiction.
[00:15:56]  They have problems with addiction.
[00:15:58]  They've ingrained this neural pathway.
[00:15:59]  And so you're doing it and there's a reward center at the end, right?
[00:16:02]  But it allows when you take psychedelics, these neurons can now talk to the ones next to them rather than the one just straight down the line in that neural pathway.
[00:16:10]  And this is why you get synesthesia when you take high dose psychedelics.
[00:16:13]  So when you.
[00:16:13]  What is that?
[00:16:14]  Synesthesia is when you say, like, you can hear colors.
[00:16:18]  or you can taste colors, or either where your visual pathway is talking to your auditory pathway, which is really interesting.
[00:16:25]  So that's why on a really big trip, you start seeing, the walls start moving, colors become just popping out of when you're listening to music, you see, oh, a shade of purple comes through and you hear a certain note.
[00:16:35]  And that's called synesthesia, where your senses are crossing over with each other.
[00:16:39]  So your neurons are communicating in new ways.
[00:16:41]  And this is what the basis of neuroplasticity is, where it allows workarounds.
[00:16:48]  Say addiction or trauma treatment is that you know you these, you're reliving this little circular path in your brain and that that trauma right, and then you have a high dose of psychedelics and then you get a new neural network happening.
[00:17:02]  So your brain cells that that weren't talking to each other now are, and they kind of work around that stuck spot, which is an inch.
[00:17:10]  But really very interesting how that works.
[00:17:13]  Yeah, the the default mode network right so, and this is kind of that constant talk in your head that you tell yourself.
[00:17:22]  And when you're on a psychedelic or particularly psychedelic mushrooms, even a microdose, that calms down, right?
[00:17:29]  So instead of the chatter in your head that you're normally dealing with, that starts to go away and it starts to make you more aware of your surroundings and more connected to it.
[00:17:39]  It's a flow state.
[00:17:40]  Yeah, it increases and helps you get into that flow state.
[00:17:43]  So I'm very right brain, creative person, and it is a real boost for that.
[00:17:49]  So I will intently microdose on a day where I'm doing brainstorming sessions over product iterations or what we're going to do next in the business.
[00:17:59]  And so I'm real intentional with what I'm using it for.
[00:18:04]  And I'm a bit more of the kind of the outdoorsy, you know, adventure net.
[00:18:09]  I love surfing, snowboarding, backcountry snowboarding, big wave surfing, all that kind of stuff.
[00:18:13]  And I find microdose is, when I surf, is the next level for surfing.
[00:18:20]  It really gets me in the flow state.
[00:18:21]  Yeah, because it allows you to have that.
[00:18:25]  You're not second guessing.
[00:18:26]  It takes away that kind of maybe I shouldn't go on this one.
[00:18:30]  And you just kind of, you're really in the flow state.
[00:18:32]  You're just reading the waves.
[00:18:34]  All you're thinking about is surfing.
[00:18:36]  And you're definitely right there at that time.
[00:18:38]  You're not thinking about school or work or whatever your problems are.
[00:18:42]  You're really dialed into the moment.
[00:18:45]  I find microdosing mushrooms when surfing is the next level.
[00:18:49]  We've had friends that, you know, microdosing and play golf, for instance.
[00:18:54]  And they're like, it changes.
[00:18:56]  My game, they're like, I need it.
[00:18:59]  I can't, like, there.
[00:19:00]  Friends were saying it was shaving off strokes off their handicap, yeah, four strokes off their game, four strokes.
[00:19:05]  How, yeah, because they because you're not overthinking it.
[00:19:09]  So, if he described it as that, so he's like, If I had a big bad shot, that's it.
[00:19:15]  The next shot is a brand new shot when I'm microdosing.
[00:19:17]  He says, I'm not thinking about it.
[00:19:18]  He's a commercial realtor and he's like, I'm not thinking about any deals.
[00:19:22]  I'm not looking at my phone while I'm golfing.
[00:19:25]  He's like, it took my golf game to a whole new level.
[00:19:28]  He's like, I really can't golf without microdosing anymore.
[00:19:30]  This is what he told me.
[00:19:32]  So, flow state, you know, it definitely helps you stay in the moment, in your flow state and focus on what you're doing.
[00:19:38]  I don't have trouble when I'm surfing, not thinking about anything.
[00:19:41]  Like, I'm just automatically in my own little world.
[00:19:44]  The internal voice is gone.
[00:19:46]  So, I don't.
[00:19:47]  I wouldn't see an issue with that.
[00:19:48]  But with golf, it's definitely a problem because it's just so easy to overthink every little thing in golf.
[00:19:55]  Definitely.
[00:19:55]  So I could see how that would help with that.
[00:19:59]  Endurance as well for surfing.
[00:20:00]  It's amazing.
[00:20:01]  When you microdose in surfing, you never get tired.
[00:20:03]  You have an endless gas tank.
[00:20:05]  Really?
[00:20:05]  Yeah.
[00:20:06]  So I think there was the Chinese or something.
[00:20:08]  They dosed their runners with some mushrooms back in the 80s or something.
[00:20:12]  Quarter steps.
[00:20:13]  Quarter steps.
[00:20:13]  But I think there were rumors that they had stacked it with psychedelics.
[00:20:17]  And they set all kinds of records.
[00:20:19]  They broke a bunch of distance records and stuff.
[00:20:22]  Are there any other athletes that are microdosing or using psilocybin for anything?
[00:20:27]  I mean, is that even allowed?
[00:20:29]  MMA guys are, yeah, for sure.
[00:20:31]  And they reckon it allows them to see movements and punches coming that little bit quicker.
[00:20:37]  They're reading people better and seeing the next move faster.
[00:20:44]  So, yeah, there are MMA guys that are microdosing.
[00:20:47]  Really?
[00:20:48]  How long do you think it'll take before that it becomes like legally, like across the board?
[00:20:54]  I mean, obviously, it's not even weed is not even legal in every state.
[00:20:57]  That's the million dollar question, right?
[00:20:58]  Everybody wants to know when's that going to happen, you know, federally.
[00:21:03]  We believe it's going to happen a lot quicker federally because of quicker than marijuana.
[00:21:07]  Yeah.
[00:21:07]  I mean, marijuana is still not there federally, right?
[00:21:10]  So, and basically, because of all the evidence that's coming out, right?
[00:21:18]  PTSD.
[00:21:20]  Like they figure, you know, MDMA might be descheduled for this year or next year for that purpose.
[00:21:26]  I mean, I think everybody on the political spectrum, no matter what side you're on, can get behind that we don't want our veterans killing themselves, right?
[00:21:36]  And it's showing great promise on turning that PTSD around.
[00:21:41]  So that's a good step into federal legalization as they deschedule this from a Schedule I. on down to accepted medical use, right?
[00:21:51]  Yeah.

=== Obstacles to Legalization (12:27) ===

[00:21:52]  So like schedule one means it's high abuse potential, which magic mushrooms are not.
[00:21:57]  They kind of have an anti-abuse system built in because if you take them regularly, you oversaturate those serotonin receptors and they won't work.
[00:22:06]  It's not like you can just keep doing it and take more and more and more and more.
[00:22:10]  If you don't have a washout period, those receptor sites are not active and they're not available to receive it.
[00:22:16]  So you just will get no effect, even though, so if you took like several grams, like dosed, Like tripped every day.
[00:22:23]  After a certain number of days, it would have zero effect no matter how much you took.
[00:22:28]  And the lethal dose of mushrooms, if you were to take magic mushrooms, I think I was reading this about 75 pounds of dry mushroom powder or dry mushroom that you'd have to consume.
[00:22:38]  It's physically impossible to do.
[00:22:40]  To overdose.
[00:22:40]  To overdose.
[00:22:41]  So you could have the most horrendous trip ever and you still wouldn't die.
[00:22:46]  Your body would not be harmed.
[00:22:48]  There's no toxicity.
[00:22:49]  Really?
[00:22:50]  Mushrooms are the safest drug that exists.
[00:22:53]  If you look at the chart, Alcohol is the most dangerous.
[00:22:57]  Mushrooms are the least dangerous.
[00:22:59]  If you drink a liter of vodka on an empty stomach, there's a very good chance you're going to die.
[00:23:04]  You'll definitely die.
[00:23:06]  So that's not the case.
[00:23:07]  Like I said, I think you have to consume something around 75 pounds of dry, dehydrated mushrooms to reach LD50.
[00:23:15]  Right.
[00:23:16]  And that's crazy to think about when you think about legalization and you think about the things that you can buy from the store and get prescribed.
[00:23:22]  You could get prescribed a bottle of pills, eat the whole thing, be dead.
[00:23:24]  You could go to the store, buy a bottle of whiskey, drink it, be dead.
[00:23:27]  Over the counter, you can buy a bottle of Tylenol.
[00:23:29]  Right.
[00:23:29]  If you take a bottle of Tylenol, you'll die.
[00:23:31]  And it's a very common way of people killing themselves, actually.
[00:23:35]  So mushrooms are the least dangerous, least addictive on top of that.
[00:23:39]  So what about, I know a guy who when he was in his young teens, he would took a lot of mushrooms.
[00:23:48]  And now he has this thing where he always is hallucinating 24-7.
[00:23:51]  Are you familiar with that?
[00:23:54]  We've heard stories that there are.
[00:23:57]  You know a person like this?
[00:23:58]  Yes.
[00:23:59]  So he's in a constant state of tripping?
[00:24:01]  He's not necessarily like he's obviously, he's there, he's lucid, he's conscious, he's not like tripping, tripping, but he has visual hallucinations.
[00:24:09]  Like he sees things all the time.
[00:24:11]  Like he sees little like things, like, like, lights moving around, like he's getting.
[00:24:15]  He gets the visual, the visual hallucinations.
[00:24:18]  That's interesting.
[00:24:19]  I'd love to meet him and talk to him about it.
[00:24:21]  Yeah, he's actually.
[00:24:22]  He's got a huge Youtube channel.
[00:24:24]  Uh, it used to be called all gas, no breaks, now it's called Channel FIVE.
[00:24:27]  He goes around to these crazy events all over the world and he and he interviews people.
[00:24:32]  It's right, it's interesting.
[00:24:34]  Um, because you know the your, your body processes.
[00:24:37]  Um, when you ingest magic mushrooms, there's compounds in the mushrooms, several tryptamine analogs, but there's psilocybin.
[00:24:44]  Is the the the most well-known, right?
[00:24:48]  But psilocin is actually the active.
[00:24:50]  So psilocybin is the prodrug to psilocin.
[00:24:53]  And psilocin is created when you dephosphorylate psilocybin.
[00:24:57]  So there's a phosphate group on the psilocybin molecule, and your stomach acid, the enzymes take that phosphate group off.
[00:25:06]  That allows it to become fat-soluble, and then it can enter the bloodstream, go through the blood-brain barrier, where it affects your neurons, where it actually goes to the receptor sites.
[00:25:14]  So psilocybin itself does not enter the brain.
[00:25:17]  It needs to be dephosphorylated.
[00:25:18]  And so it's actually solosin is the psychedelic compound of the magic mushrooms.
[00:25:23]  Really?
[00:25:23]  I didn't know that.
[00:25:24]  Yeah.
[00:25:24]  And mushrooms vary wildly in their concentration of those compounds.
[00:25:28]  So this is something that we're working on and through our research that we're doing in Jamaica, where we have acquired a company down there where we can do our research legally.
[00:25:39]  And so we can really understand what the different species, the different compounds that are contained in the mushroom, all the different tryptamine analogs.
[00:25:46]  like biocysteine, norbiocysteine, there's several, and really trying to understand what those do for the feeling of it and how it affects your body in that way.
[00:25:56]  And even in creating standardized dosing, because if you have just a dose of powdered mushrooms, powdered mushrooms, a mushroom can vary greatly from the stem to the cap, from one mushroom to the next, even that's grown on the same substrate.
[00:26:11]  And they can vary from like 0.2 of a percent of psilocybin and psilocin up to 2%.
[00:26:17]  That's 10x, you know.
[00:26:18]  So if you don't really know how much you're getting if you're just eating mushrooms, so the trips can vary widely.
[00:26:25]  So if you were given three caps and a stem and Chris had three stems and a cap, you might really trip out because you might have 10x the amount of psychedelic compounds.
[00:26:36]  It is a little bit so and that's what we hope to to to do with our research down there is standardize the dosing so we know exact, do hplc analysis of our, of our extracts and our powders and know exactly how much psilocybin, psilocin, and tryptamine analogs are there, so we really understand what we're giving people for therapeutic doses.
[00:26:57]  We like to help support the therapeutic industry down there.
[00:27:00]  And then as well for our microdosing for people, adult consumption.
[00:27:04]  What are your guys' biggest obstacles to bringing this to the market?
[00:27:09]  Say it does become legalized.
[00:27:11]  Who are your guys' biggest competitors?
[00:27:13]  What are your guys' biggest obstacles you have to overcome?
[00:27:15]  Because I'm sure, I mean, I don't know.
[00:27:18]  Maybe I'm wrong, but there's a lot of pharmaceutical drugs and companies that would not want psilocybin mushrooms to become therapy.
[00:27:27]  I don't know how many kids that are in college that are addicted to Adderall.
[00:27:30]  I mean, almost every kid I know, every person I know takes Adderall every single day.
[00:27:34]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:35]  Actually, Sunbeam was designed so you wouldn't have to take Adderall.
[00:27:40]  Really?
[00:27:41]  Yeah.
[00:27:41]  Take that same approach.
[00:27:42]  Adderall or Concerta are dopamine reuptake inhibitors.
[00:27:48]  And our Sunbeam was actually designed to help boost the dopamine system so that you don't have to take a prescription Adderall and run the risk of that prescription medicine.
[00:27:59]  That the obstacles right now for psychedelics is really just public perception.
[00:28:02]  It's still scary.
[00:28:04]  You said you were scared.
[00:28:06]  So there's a lot of people that just don't know, and there's a lot of unknown about it, and there's a lot of misinformation out there.
[00:28:13]  And when you see people talk and even hear the language about tripping, it just sounds intimidating like, I'm going to trip.
[00:28:21]  And you say, I'm going to lose control of yourself.
[00:28:23]  But everybody that I've talked to that had fear before, that afterwards, They would say, what was I scared of?
[00:28:30]  Right.
[00:28:31]  It's so weird that I was scared of that because I didn't lose control.
[00:28:35]  I actually gained control.
[00:28:37]  I was more in control and aware of myself than I was lost control.
[00:28:42]  So it's just a matter of getting over our society's addiction to being told that the pharmaceuticals know more than what Mother Nature knows.
[00:28:59]  Right.
[00:28:59]  So.
[00:29:00]  There's a lot of companies out there in the psilocybin and psychedelic industry going right after pharmaceuticals, creating synthetic psilocybin, saying that nothing else matters besides the psilocybin, so it doesn't have any different effect.
[00:29:15]  But anybody who's taken mushrooms knows that there's a lot more to it, right?
[00:29:20]  So different species have a different feeling.
[00:29:22]  So there must be things that we still need to discover that tell the story of why one species of mushroom makes you energetic and get a lot of stuff.
[00:29:33]  Done, and the other one is more of a visual experience.
[00:29:36]  So there's all those tryptamines that Joe were talking about.
[00:29:39]  So, as the research starts to come out and as the stories start to come out right, so the research is is great and and we love to look at the data and that but there's so much of uh, of our brain and psychedelics that um, you can't describe in in words and you can't really describe even in FMRI, uh or or labs.
[00:30:02]  It's more of a, you know, It's more of a spiritual experience, more of something that you really, it's ineffable.
[00:30:11]  You really can't say.
[00:30:12]  And as those stories come out and people start to realize and experience it for themselves, I mean, right now they estimate six to 10 million people are regular microdoses in the United States.
[00:30:24]  So, and I think it's, I think that's underestimating.
[00:30:26]  I think it's actually greater than that.
[00:30:28]  And as more research gets shown and starts to normalize, it's getting more and more.
[00:30:32]  So it's growing pretty rapidly.
[00:30:35]  You know, biggest challenge back to your question was, you know, the pharmaceutical industry definitely is definitely they have a very strong lobbying because they don't want to lose that revenue from those drugs, including SSRIs.
[00:30:47]  So it's a multi, multi-billion dollar industries, all of those.
[00:30:51]  And so they'll probably be the biggest resistance to getting laws changed is that those guys will lobby against it and they have very deep pockets, you know.
[00:30:59]  So it will really take a public upwelling of interest to get it to change, I think, on the federal level.
[00:31:06]  It seems like an impossible feat, honestly, because of how much money is like these pharmaceutical companies have.
[00:31:12]  And with the SSRIs, even with all the lawsuits and all the scams and all the freaking corruption going on with these companies.
[00:31:19]  I don't think you can stop the mycelium.
[00:31:21]  The mycelium wants to come out.
[00:31:23]  It wants to be part of our world.
[00:31:25]  Yeah.
[00:31:26]  It's our guiding principle.
[00:31:28]  Like we keep saying, how do these things happen?
[00:31:30]  Like since we've started this company, just these incredible connections.
[00:31:34]  And everyone you talk to, it's like, would you like to connect with this scientist, researchers?
[00:31:38]  And we'd like to do this.
[00:31:39]  And every time I talk to someone, it's not only yes, but hell yes.
[00:31:43]  How do I get involved?
[00:31:44]  Really?
[00:31:44]  Yeah.
[00:31:44]  It's amazing.
[00:31:46]  It's amazing.
[00:31:46]  Every single person we talk to, and they're so interested in this and they see the benefit.
[00:31:52]  I think it's inevitable.
[00:31:54]  You know, timing is, you know, it might be.
[00:31:57]  Two years, might be three years, might be five.
[00:31:58]  I don't know the timing, but it's going to happen.
[00:32:01]  It will happen.
[00:32:01]  It is inevitable.
[00:32:04]  So tell me more about the farm in Jamaica.
[00:32:06]  How did that come about and why Jamaica?
[00:32:09]  Well, Jamaica is one of the only places where it's never been illegal, right?
[00:32:14]  So it's not that it's specifically legalized, it's just never been recognized as a substance to be illegal.
[00:32:22]  So it's really an opportunity to do basically cuffs off research where you can really experiment, create.
[00:32:32]  You know, different consumer products, try them legally, have other people try them, get actual feedback outside of the world of regulated clinical trials in the United States, right?
[00:32:47]  So there is definitely a place for that, but there's definitely a place for the future of responsible adult consumption as well.
[00:32:58]  And so Jamaica allows for that because when you do.
[00:33:02]  research around the Schedule I drug in the United States is very, very hard, expensive, and controlled.
[00:33:09]  And we're working on our own license to have controlled substance in the United States.
[00:33:15]  And it's a process even getting to do that.
[00:33:17]  So it allows us to fast forward in Jamaica as well.
[00:33:20]  Jamaica is a wonderful place, and it's a wonderful place to go visit.
[00:33:25]  And the people there are amazing, and they are very interested in promoting the psychedelics on the island as a place to conduct research, and we're happy to be a part of it.
[00:33:35]  A lot of the big marijuana growers in the country, they grow in Jamaica too, right?
[00:33:39]  There's a lot of marijuana farms out there, a lot of big marijuana business being done in Jamaica.
[00:33:44]  It did.
[00:33:45]  It kind of came and went.
[00:33:47]  Jamaica's a little jaded because of that, because Jamaica forever was known for great weed, right?
[00:33:53]  So it's like, oh, that's the best ganja coming out of Jamaica.
[00:33:57]  And so a lot of big companies, when the cannabis boom was really going there, kind of took advantage of that, swooped in, made a lot of deals, and kind of fizzled out really for Jamaica.
[00:34:07]  So a lot of the Business people in Jamaica are a little leery of the cannabis industry because they kind of came, took their goods, went elsewhere with it, and are profiting from it and kind of left the island a little high and dry.

=== The Power of Placebo (06:30) ===

[00:34:19]  So we don't want that to happen in a psychedelic industry.
[00:34:23]  We're interested in doing business in Jamaica and bringing business to Jamaica through different conferences and events and really put the focus in and give back to Jamaica while we're there.
[00:34:37]  I heard a little bit about.
[00:34:39]  How psychedelic mushrooms and psilocybin affect people with cancer, too.
[00:34:43]  Have you guys, do you guys know anything about that?
[00:34:46]  I've heard a lot of people who have been diagnosed with cancer.
[00:34:51]  They've taken psychedelics or they've taken psilocybin and they've had experiences that sort of help them work through it.
[00:35:02]  Because when you get diagnosed with cancer, obviously there's a huge amount of depression people go through.
[00:35:07]  It's like a curse.
[00:35:08]  It's like a curse.
[00:35:08]  It's a modern day curse.
[00:35:09]  You believe what the doctor tells you.
[00:35:11]  And it's terrifying if you get a diagnosis of this is fatal.
[00:35:17]  Or, you know, you are at stage four and it's, of course, then anxiety and depression is going to, anxiety is going to creep in first, followed quickly by depression, right?
[00:35:26]  Because you're going to be like, oh my God, I'm going to die.
[00:35:28]  Or I have the potential of dying very soon.
[00:35:30]  I thought I was going to live to be forever.
[00:35:31]  You know, we all think we're going to live forever.
[00:35:32]  But psychedelics allow you to, again, kind of step outside that ego, that ego feeling like, oh, me, me, I'm going to die.
[00:35:39]  And just understand that there's a bigger thing happening here.
[00:35:42]  And you're like, oh yeah, okay.
[00:35:43]  Yes, I am going to die, but everyone's going to die and that's okay.
[00:35:46]  Right.
[00:35:47]  You know, like it's almost like it's, When you get cursed with that diagnosis, it almost accelerates death in some people.
[00:35:54]  It can, yeah.
[00:35:54]  Yeah, for sure.
[00:35:55]  You know, that modern curse is very real.
[00:35:58]  Like people say, doctor, you got six months to live, and it's remarkable how many people, not that the doctor knew exactly that the disease progression was going to kill him in that amount of time, but it was the curse.
[00:36:09]  Yeah, they believe it.
[00:36:10]  If you believe you're going to die in six months, you know what?
[00:36:12]  You're going to die in six months.
[00:36:14]  The placebo or nocebo effect there is very real.
[00:36:19]  It's not false medicine to think that we can.
[00:36:23]  Cure ourselves or, you know, or even contribute to our own demise by our own thinking.
[00:36:29]  The brain is very powerful, our body is very powerful, and so when you take something and you believe it, that's part of the reason, that's part of the medicine, right?
[00:36:38]  You're essentially the medicine.
[00:36:39]  Your belief in that medicine is part of what makes it work, for sure.
[00:36:46]  Yeah, I heard something recently too, even about place.
[00:36:48]  When talking about placebos, I forget who it was, but they were talking about like they took a test group of people, like 10 people, where they actually had like ligament injuries in their knees and they actually gave them surgery on their ligaments, and other another group of 10 people where they just made an incision in their skin and stitched them up and and they actually believed they had the surgery and it like healed their knees.
[00:37:10]  Yeah, so it just shows you like the power of the mind is like absolutely incredible.
[00:37:14]  It is incredible.
[00:37:15]  Yeah, it's a big deal.
[00:37:16]  So some of these initial studies that are coming out saying hey, microdosing is only the placebo effect if it's only the placebo effect, that's great, Because that means our body is healing ourselves and helping us be better.
[00:37:32]  I don't personally believe that.
[00:37:33]  I believe that there's a lot more to it because there are other studies that show that it's increasing your neuroplasticity and your neurogenesis.
[00:37:41]  So it's definitely a combination.
[00:37:44]  Yeah.
[00:37:45]  Stepping back to SSRIs and stuff, and there's been meta studies done on those showing that they're somewhere in the neighborhood of the placebo effect.
[00:37:55]  Their efficacy rate is right around 24%, 25%, which is.
[00:37:58]  Placebo is like 23 and a half.
[00:38:00]  So it's slightly better, more efficacious than the placebo effect.
[00:38:06]  And these are drugs that make billions of dollars and cause actual damage to people.
[00:38:13]  These drugs are addictive.
[00:38:15]  You can't just, if you get an SSRI and you're taking this stuff for years, you can't just quit.
[00:38:19]  Quitting is fatal.
[00:38:21]  You can have a fatal reaction to just stopping taking your antidepressant.
[00:38:25]  And these things cause structural changes in your brain.
[00:38:29]  You're limiting the reuptake of a neurotransmitter, which you know, has its own problems.
[00:38:36]  It does, you know, and if you know people that are, that take SSRIs all the time, but they, they kind of blunt your existence, right?
[00:38:41]  So you don't get super happy.
[00:38:43]  You don't get super sad.
[00:38:44]  You just kind of live in meh land.
[00:38:47]  Yeah.
[00:38:47]  The problem, though, with people like that is when you're in that state of mind, like that depressed state of mind, a lot of those people, they don't have the mentality of, like, I'm in control of this.
[00:38:56]  I can figure out a solution to this problem.
[00:38:58]  They just, they listen to the doctor, and the doctors, you know, a lot of the doctors are courted by these pharmaceutical companies and, like, they're, you know, you got to sell these or, you know, pump these and you're going to make more money.
[00:39:12]  And trip to Hawaii, you know.
[00:39:13]  Right.
[00:39:14]  Exactly.
[00:39:14]  Right.
[00:39:15]  And, uh, And, you know, when you're in that state of mind, the depressed state of mind and your doctor saying, take these, it's going to help you.
[00:39:20]  You're not, that's not someone who's going to be like, you know what?
[00:39:23]  I think I can figure out something better.
[00:39:25]  They're not in that state of mind to explore.
[00:39:27]  Yeah.
[00:39:28]  I feel like it's a generational change of that is happening, though, that, you know, as you go to our parents' age, which were super accepting and just did what the doctor was told.
[00:39:39]  And as you go down younger, I think just through our technology and social media and sharing actual stories that that's starting to change.
[00:39:48]  Like they're not going to be able to have the.
[00:39:50]  the power of influence as they once did as you start to get readily available stories, whether TikTok or Instagram or Facebook or whatever, people telling you alternatives to it.
[00:40:04]  Right.
[00:40:05]  Yeah, we just have so much access to more information now.
[00:40:07]  Like 15 years ago, you wouldn't have known all the podcasts that are out there and all the information on the internet that you can just look up and go, okay, wow, this is how this mechanistically works in the body and understand it.
[00:40:21]  You know, we live in the age of information now.
[00:40:24]  And so I heard a quote was it was like in the age of information ignorance is a choice You know, so you're actively choosing not to educate yourself if on these if that's something that you want to learn about your own health and your brain health and and You know, I see I see psychedelics really helping open people's mind to the possibilities that are out there You mentioned earlier something about synthetic there's companies that are doing synthetic mushrooms and it's not even mushrooms.

=== Fungi and Human Biology (04:37) ===

[00:40:50]  It's just psilocybin.
[00:40:51]  Yeah, they're chemically making and manufacturing it and so which which which is great because it gives them an isolated compound to study.
[00:40:57]  However, it doesn't have all the entourage effect of all the other tryptamine analogs, and it's exceedingly expensive right now.
[00:41:04]  I think it's something like $1,600 a dose, where, I mean, mushrooms, if you grow mushrooms, they're almost free.
[00:41:10]  I mean, you grow them on coffee grounds or grass, or, I mean, there's all kinds of substrates you can grow your mushrooms on or grains or whatever.
[00:41:20]  And so the dosage for the medicine should not cost $1,600 a dose.
[00:41:26]  It's insane.
[00:41:28]  Now, who's making the stuff that's $1,600 a dose?
[00:41:32]  It's the big pharmaceutical companies that are studying it right now.
[00:41:36]  Yeah.
[00:41:36]  So it is quite expensive to make in the lab.
[00:41:38]  I mean, just by its nature versus growing out a mushroom.
[00:41:43]  So, but, you know, for those studies, and this is why these studies are not everything, you've got to have the perfect, exact same inputs over and over and over again.
[00:41:54]  And you can do that in the synthetic world a lot easier than you can do it in the natural.
[00:41:59]  There's so many different types of mushrooms.
[00:42:01]  What is it that makes the perfect mushroom for this?
[00:42:05]  What is in one of these magic mushrooms?
[00:42:09]  What makes them different from the ones that don't make you trip?
[00:42:15]  There's several different species.
[00:42:16]  There's about 200 roughly identified species that contain the tryptamine analogs like psilocybin, psilosa, and baocysteine or baocysteine.
[00:42:28]  There's been about 200 identified so far.
[00:42:29]  There's probably many more.
[00:42:30]  There's literally.
[00:42:31]  Millions.
[00:42:32]  It's the most mushroom fungi are the, you know, they populate the earth.
[00:42:36]  They're inside of us.
[00:42:37]  They're on our skin.
[00:42:38]  They're in your guts.
[00:42:39]  Like, fungi are everywhere.
[00:42:42]  Our planet, life wouldn't exist without the third kingdom there.
[00:42:45]  And they're not actually plants, right?
[00:42:47]  That's what I've no, so if people go on plant medicine, it drives me a little bit crazy because fungi are not plants.
[00:42:53]  So their own kingdom, there's the animal kingdom, there's the plant kingdom, and then there's the kingdom of fungi.
[00:42:59]  A totally separate kingdom, so it's not like they're not plants.
[00:43:02]  It would be like saying animals are plants.
[00:43:04]  If you say a fungi is a plant, they're not.
[00:43:07]  They respire.
[00:43:08]  They consume oxygen and give off CO2, more like an animal. than a plant.
[00:43:15]  That's why they're there.
[00:43:16]  And they're the greatest recyclers on the planet.
[00:43:18]  Like without fungi, nothing would decompose, you know, and give back, you know.
[00:43:23]  And there's that, I don't know if you've watched Fantastic Fungi.
[00:43:26]  It's a great documentary.
[00:43:28]  And it really explains the connection between plants and fungi and animals and how plants and trees, particularly forests, without their mycorrhizal networks of fungi, would not get the nutrients out of the soil to grow.
[00:43:41]  So they're symbiotic.
[00:43:43]  They need each other just like we're symbiotic organisms with bacteria, yeasts, and fungi within our digestive tract.
[00:43:51]  And having a healthy GI tract means having a plethora of flora, a diversity of flora in our gut microbiome so we can digest food.
[00:44:01]  These things actually create hormones and create neurotransmitters.
[00:44:04]  And most of the neurotransmitters are created in your gut, not in your brain.
[00:44:08]  So our poor diets and stuff are probably causing some of our mental problems in our society because we're not creating the right neurotransmitters.
[00:44:16]  So we have a deficit of the correct neurotransmitters.
[00:44:20]  Our neurotransmitters more are created in our gut?
[00:44:23]  Correct.
[00:44:23]  Really?
[00:44:24]  Correct.
[00:44:25]  How is that?
[00:44:26]  Well, that's where they're manufactured, right?
[00:44:28]  So that's the transmitter.
[00:44:29]  The neurotransmitters are actually created by certain bacteria, yeast, fungi.
[00:44:33]  So it's like these things are actually symbiotic.
[00:44:36]  We're symbiotic organisms.
[00:44:37]  There's more other organisms living inside of us than there are us by cell count.
[00:44:44]  So if you counted all the organisms living inside our digestive tract, there's more of them than there are of your own cells in your body.
[00:44:52]  That makes sense.
[00:44:52]  By number.
[00:44:53]  That makes sense.
[00:44:55]  Wow.
[00:44:56]  Yeah.
[00:44:56]  That's mind blowing.
[00:44:57]  It is, isn't it?
[00:44:58]  Yeah.
[00:44:59]  So, obviously, the reason you guys started this was for things like Alzheimer's or like maintaining a sharp brain into later age, right?
[00:45:13]  Yeah.
[00:45:15]  That's one of the main reasons for sure.
[00:45:18]  And for me, again, like as I mentioned, traumatic brain injury recovery was a big motivation factor on protecting my brain.
[00:45:24]  As we age, but it has a greater purpose, you know.

=== Gut Health and Diet (15:11) ===

[00:45:27]  These medicines have a greater purpose, as it, like I mentioned, empathy before and connectivity.
[00:45:33]  It really makes you feel more connected to your fellow man and the earth.
[00:45:38]  So, as you said, just your first time, if you've never had a mushroom experience, if you have a slightly larger dose, even just a slightly larger dose than a microdose, you'll find that when you're walking outside, you just stop and look at the leaves on the trees and just like appreciate nature and you feel more, you feel a connectedness to it that you've never felt before.
[00:45:56]  And if you ever do decide to do a higher dose experience, like out in nature, in the woods or in the mountains or whatever, you will feel an immense connectivity to mother nature that that doesn't go away after the experience.
[00:46:09]  That and so we hope that that kind of feeling is, you know, helps people realize a little bit more that we are connected to our planet, we're not separated from our environment and we need to like, wake up yeah, and stop trashing our planet yeah, and that's great.
[00:46:24]  But I feel like, you know, the way that this it's going to become more accepted is by Is by actually fixing real problems.
[00:46:32]  So I guess what I'm trying to get at is what is the lowest hanging fruit as far as fixing certain things like depression or PTSD or whatever?
[00:46:43]  What is the lowest hanging fruit that this could be a therapy for?
[00:46:47]  Well, part of what we like to talk about at first person is let's not break it in the first place.
[00:46:55]  So to me, the lowest hanging fruit of taking care of your brain through supplementation and mushrooms and potentially psychedelics as they start to legalize is dealing with it on the day-to-day basis, like realizing that you want to take care of your brain just like you go to the gym.
[00:47:14]  You want to take care of your brain every day and not let it get to the point where you have to fix something, right?
[00:47:21]  So we can be proactive rather than reactive.
[00:47:24]  So to us, the low-hanging fruit is let's not break it in the first place.
[00:47:30]  Let's, you know, through microdosing, through correct diet and lifestyle and supplementation and taking these things that are healthy for your brain.
[00:47:40]  that maybe you don't get to the point where you're so anxiety ridden and depressed that you need to take a therapeutic dose ever.
[00:47:48]  Maybe it's a microdose over time that just makes you more aware of yourself and more connected with your life so that you don't get broken.
[00:47:57]  Yeah.
[00:47:57]  And, you know, I was saying we're starting with these products, these functional mushroom products that we they're beautiful, by the way.
[00:48:03]  Thank you.
[00:48:04]  Even like the actual capsules themselves are very cool.
[00:48:07]  They look like a piece of modern art with like the little colors inside the clear capsules.
[00:48:11]  The microbeadlets are great, aren't they?
[00:48:13]  Yeah, they're fantastic.
[00:48:14]  So, what are the beadlets?
[00:48:16]  Are actual, like, they're like.
[00:48:18]  That's the powders inside them.
[00:48:20]  They've just been encapsulated in an all natural coloring, made of blueberry, turmeric.
[00:48:26]  Turmeric.
[00:48:26]  Just help get it guided into your digestive tract to the right place to be released.
[00:48:31]  Like, my wife's never been interested in any of the lion's mane shit that I always take or all these different supplements I'm always testing that Dom sends me.
[00:48:37]  She sees this.
[00:48:38]  She's like, ooh, what's that?
[00:48:39]  I love the pastels.
[00:48:43]  Yeah.
[00:48:43]  Definitely.
[00:48:44]  The marketing team did a great job creating that.
[00:48:46]  You know, it's.
[00:48:48]  They're beautiful.
[00:48:48]  They look amazing.
[00:48:50]  And we grow those mushrooms ourselves at our farm in Washington, too.
[00:48:52]  Oh, you guys have a farm in Washington?
[00:48:54]  Yes.
[00:48:54]  We have an organic medicinal mushroom farm in Olympia, Washington.
[00:49:00]  And then that's where we grow these mushrooms for these supplements.
[00:49:03]  And that's where really we started with this we couldn't find the mushrooms that we wanted on the market.
[00:49:10]  I think just prior to the start of this, I mentioned that in the functional mushroom world, there's a little bit of shenanigans that go on, and people sell mushrooms.
[00:49:20]  powdered grains as mushrooms and we didn't want that in our product.
[00:49:24]  We're pretty keto and we don't just want to take a bunch of rice powder or oat powder.
[00:49:29]  So we grow whole fruiting body mushrooms and we cultivate the mycelium in a liquid culture and then we strain that out and we combine the mycelium with the pure fruiting body, no grains, and then we do an extraction process and we spray dry that.
[00:49:44]  So we have a very highly concentrated pure full fungus powders that we use.
[00:49:50]  So we're really proud of that.
[00:49:51]  And we're developing a B2B business, supplying a few select brands with those powders as well here in the United States.
[00:49:57]  How did you guys get connected with Dom D'Agostino?
[00:50:01]  Dom has a pretty big story in our existence, really.
[00:50:06]  And it goes back to, I don't know, it was years ago, one of his first appearances on Joe Rogan.
[00:50:13]  And I was listening to it.
[00:50:15]  And this was at the time Joe and I were just, my brother Joe and I were just trying to figure out how to.
[00:50:21]  What to do in this whole brain health and Alzheimer's prevention world.
[00:50:27]  And listening to Dom talk with Joe about keto and all that, it was just like it clicked.
[00:50:32]  And it's like, this is it.
[00:50:34]  This is one of the pieces of the puzzle is the ketogenic diet for brain health.
[00:50:40]  And so that just kind of led us down into that path.
[00:50:43]  And as we're going to different conferences, Joe ended up meeting Dom at a conference.
[00:50:49]  Yeah, at a metabolic health summit, a conference that Dom is part of.
[00:50:53]  And that's a medical conference they hold every year out in California.
[00:50:57]  It's fantastic.
[00:50:58]  All the greatest researchers on cancer, anything, metabolic health, cancer as a metabolic disease, Alzheimer's.
[00:51:06]  Del Bredesen spoke at that conference.
[00:51:08]  I don't know if you're familiar with him.
[00:51:09]  He wrote a book called The End of Alzheimer's that really outlines kind of the mechanisms by which you get Alzheimer's that you cause as the epigenetic factors that trigger that cascade for your brain to develop Alzheimer's dementia.
[00:51:25]  And so I was attending there really to hear Bredesen speak.
[00:51:28]  And then Dom, I met him there because he was part of that conference.
[00:51:31]  And then we struck up a conversation.
[00:51:33]  And, you know, we have a very personal story about our father having dementia and stuff.
[00:51:37]  And Dom was interested.
[00:51:38]  And so we just kept going from there.
[00:51:40]  And then Dom is one of our advisors on First Person.
[00:51:43]  So we're helping us design some of our studies and a couple of patent applications we have in on bioavailability and stuff of psychedelics and stuff.
[00:51:53]  So we're working with Dom to.
[00:51:56]  Continue to do some more research.
[00:51:58]  Yeah, diet is super connected to things like Alzheimer's, right?
[00:52:02]  Like diet is one of the leading causes of Alzheimer's, like a bad diet, I think.
[00:52:06]  Yeah, lifestyle in general.
[00:52:07]  That's part of it, you know?
[00:52:09]  So there's, there's, it's multimodal.
[00:52:10]  There's lots of causes, but the standard American diet, the sad diet, definitely top on the list of what's helping, what's causing these cognitive issues, whether it's Alzheimer's in later age or just in general right now, anxiety, depression, a lot of that you can.
[00:52:28]  Go back to improper diet.
[00:52:30]  Yeah.
[00:52:30]  And alcohol consumption, you know, chronic alcohol consumption.
[00:52:34]  You know, I look at our dad's own disease, and it was obviously multimodal, and we have the genetic markers for Alzheimer's ourselves, which could really motivate us to make those lifestyle changes.
[00:52:44]  But then we look back on his life, and he worked very hard.
[00:52:46]  He was an electrical engineer, and he commuted like an hour each way to where we lived.
[00:52:51]  He, you know, raised us on a country property so we didn't have to live in the city.
[00:52:56]  So he commuted an hour each way to work and to the plant.
[00:52:59]  He probably got pretty heavy metal exposure.
[00:53:01]  They were manufacturing.
[00:53:02]  Telecommunication switchboards there at that plant for ATT.
[00:53:08]  But he would come home and have one or two drinks, like on the nightly, one or two rum and cokes.
[00:53:13]  And he didn't know, people didn't know what we know now, that he was just having a bolus of sugar and a bolus of alcohol every night, which probably restricted his ability to sleep deeply and get restful sleep, where his glial cells open up and he flush out those toxins from metabolic. processes that really only happens in deep sleep that we're starting to figure out through research.
[00:53:38]  And it's like, well, if alcohol limits your ability to get into that deep cycle of sleep and you did that chronically over 40 or 50 years, bang, there you go.
[00:53:46]  It'll shave a few years off.
[00:53:47]  Well, it's just it allows that beta amyloid plaque to build up, which they think is like it's actually a response from the brain trying to protect itself.
[00:53:54]  The plaque that's in the brain, right?
[00:53:56]  Yeah.
[00:53:56]  Yeah.
[00:53:56]  These neural, these, these tangles, these tau tangles and, and beta amyloid tangles that cause, and they really think that's almost like a autoimmune problem.
[00:54:05]  It's an over response of the brain trying to protect itself from neuroinflammation.
[00:54:09]  And the fact that he never got into that deep cycle of sleep, maybe chronically for years and years and years allowed that plaque to build up and really.
[00:54:18]  And causes disease progression.
[00:54:21]  Have you ever heard anyone talk about having psychedelic experiences after fasting for a long period of time?
[00:54:29]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have.
[00:54:31]  What is the connection with that?
[00:54:33]  Because I've heard a lot of people talk about a lot of people that have messed around with fasting for more than seven to 10 days.
[00:54:38]  They said they get this crazy, euphoric, almost psychedelic euphoric feeling after six days.
[00:54:46]  Yeah, I've done seven day fasts.
[00:54:48]  Have you?
[00:54:49]  I just felt great.
[00:54:50]  I was charging.
[00:54:52]  I felt amazing.
[00:54:54]  I didn't really feel like I was tripping, but I felt really good.
[00:54:57]  I felt really cognitively sharp.
[00:54:59]  I was still working out.
[00:55:01]  I wasn't tired, which makes sense as fasting as we evolved.
[00:55:07]  If we got tired and lethargic when we were in a fasted state, we would have never evolved.
[00:55:11]  We would have died out because famine would have been part of the human evolution.
[00:55:17]  And so actually, you get more cognitively alert when you're hungry.
[00:55:20]  Because you're not digesting, you're not diverting in.
[00:55:22]  It takes a lot of energy to digest food and a lot of your immune system.
[00:55:25]  The majority of your immune system surrounds your gut lining because it's that's.
[00:55:29]  The only import endpoint for pathogens to enter our bloodstream is our digestive system.
[00:55:36]  So the whole digestive tract is lined with your immune system.
[00:55:41]  It's concentrated around your digestive tract.
[00:55:43]  So when you're eating you're stimulating digestion, but you're also you're stimulating your immune system.
[00:55:48]  So when you're fasting, it takes all that energy that you're putting to digestion and your immune system and You've got it elsewhere.
[00:55:55]  It allows your brain's got more energy.
[00:55:57]  So, and it's like, okay, you got to wake up to go out.
[00:55:59]  I need to go find food.
[00:56:01]  You know, I need to eat.
[00:56:02]  You know, so that's why you become more alert when you're in a fasted state.
[00:56:07]  Yeah.
[00:56:08]  There's also, I think the digestive system builds up like this plaque, which is what I know.
[00:56:13]  Like, I did a seven day fast.
[00:56:15]  I tried to do a seven day fast.
[00:56:16]  I only got through five days.
[00:56:18]  I caved after five days.
[00:56:19]  But on the fifth day, I was like, I told Dom multiple times, I was able to do three times the amount of pull ups I normally do.
[00:56:25]  And I had, I was able to play basket, like full court basketball for like an extra hour and a half without having that like side cramp, the stitch cramp or like that completely exhausted, fatigued feeling.
[00:56:38]  And, you know, that's what sold me on that.
[00:56:41]  Now I do it like once a year, but.
[00:56:43]  Yeah.
[00:56:44]  I wonder if on the psychedelic where people are reporting that, I wonder if that has something to do with the endogenous DMT that we have in our bodies.
[00:56:52]  And maybe some of that's getting released to help, you know, we're at seven, we're at 10 days.
[00:56:57]  It's like, stimulating us to you better go find some food evolutionary.
[00:57:03]  I wonder if that has something to do.
[00:57:05]  I've done seven day fasts as well, but I've not experienced any kind of psychedelic effect from that.
[00:57:10]  It's super interesting how I didn't realize like how the gut was so important to everything in your body, like your to your brain, to your well, there's a second brain nervous system.
[00:57:21]  There's an enormous amount of neurons that surround your gut as well.
[00:57:25]  So they call it the second brain.
[00:57:26]  There's there's so many neurons that surround your gut lining.
[00:57:30]  And are connected directly to the brain through the vagus nerve.
[00:57:33]  So the vagus nerve.
[00:57:35]  Yeah, which is a wandering nerve that's a really big nerve system that runs up from your gut to your brain.
[00:57:40]  So and that that connection is, you know, they're starting to figure that out a little bit more.
[00:57:44]  You know, say, you know, you have a gut feeling.
[00:57:47]  Yeah.
[00:57:47]  Your brain and your gut might be telling you to make that decision literally.
[00:57:52]  So that gut feeling might be your second brain telling your first brain, hey, no, we don't want to do that.
[00:57:58]  That's dangerous.
[00:57:59]  Or no, don't trust that person.
[00:58:00]  Or whatever that gut's telling you, listen to it.
[00:58:03]  Intuition is powerful and it's there for a reason.
[00:58:07]  We've developed it over billions of years as we've evolved.
[00:58:11]  So, I mean, yeah, that explains when an animal hasn't eaten for seven days, it has to be more alert so we can catch prey, right?
[00:58:16]  So we can catch food and become fed.
[00:58:19]  What have you guys done as far as research on dieting?
[00:58:24]  What's the best diet to keep your gut healthy?
[00:58:29]  And along with that, what do you guys supplement with your diets as far as stuff like this or different types of mushrooms, psilocybins?
[00:58:36]  How often do you do it?
[00:58:38]  What's optimal in your guys' experience?
[00:58:39]  Well, for diet, diet is very individual.
[00:58:42]  There's no one diet for everyone.
[00:58:45]  That's a fallacy.
[00:58:46]  If anyone tells you that, they're trying to sell you something.
[00:58:48]  There is no one diet.
[00:58:49]  It is really individual.
[00:58:51]  I follow a pretty ketogenic diet and drifting more towards carnivore keto now for me.
[00:59:00]  It really works for me at my age.
[00:59:03]  I feel great.
[00:59:05]  I measure my blood work, and so my triglycerides are good.
[00:59:08]  My free testosterone is good.
[00:59:10]  So I eat a lot of meat, red meat, fish, eggs, some vegetables, like broccoli, sweet potatoes and stuff now and again.
[00:59:19]  I don't eat a lot of green leafy vegetables.
[00:59:21]  I find they're a little bit disrupting to my gut right now.
[00:59:24]  But again, I think it's finding your own path with your diet.
[00:59:27]  Obviously, we can't eat.
[00:59:29]  I mean, as humans, we shouldn't be eating these processed, packaged foods that are just made with poison.
[00:59:36]  You know, really, some of these things shouldn't even be considered food.
[00:59:38]  And these industrial seed oils that are being fed to us are a huge problem in our diets.
[00:59:43]  It's a massive, it's probably more of a problem for diabetes and obesity than overconsumption of carbohydrate.
[00:59:52]  It's these seed oils, like, rice branola, canola oil, sunflower seed oil, these high omega-6 oils were not ever in our diets as we evolved.
[01:00:03]  And so, you know, 100 years ago, they made up about 2% of our diet, and today they make up about 12%.
[01:00:09]  And it's really being correlated with ill health.
[01:00:12]  You can look at countries around the world that haven't adopted these seed oils into their diet.
[01:00:16]  They don't have all these problems.
[01:00:17]  They don't have these obesity problems.
[01:00:19]  They don't have, you know, dementia skyrocketing because obesity, diabetes, and Alzheimer's dementia.
[01:00:27]  Perfectly correlate on a graph.
[01:00:28]  As they're going up, as one goes up, the other two go up.
[01:00:31]  You know, they're all, they're hand in hand.
[01:00:33]  They're linked to our diets.
[01:00:34]  Are these seed oils, are they in foods without us even knowing it?
[01:00:37]  They're in everything.
[01:00:38]  Really?
[01:00:38]  They're in everything.

=== Healthy Eating Secrets (06:37) ===

[01:00:39]  Everything fried that you're getting from out in the restaurant is fried in omega 6 oil, seed oil.
[01:00:47]  Very rarely would you find something, unless it's a really purposeful, healthy restaurant, that is frying something in more like a coconut oil, but that's few and far between right now.
[01:00:56]  Anything.
[01:00:57]  pretty much packaged, you're going to get a lot of omega-6 seed oils in.
[01:01:02]  So you have to be very purposeful about your diet to flip that and try to get more omega-3s in through salmon and sardines and things like that, or grass-fed, pasture-raised ruminant animals like beef or elk or lamb, things like that.
[01:01:21]  But if you grain feed an animal, like feed it full of corn, you are actually getting that omega-6 now from the grain through the animal to you.
[01:01:31]  Whereas if you go and purposefully get pasture-raised animals that's feeding on grass and plants, those grains don't ever get to your body either.
[01:01:43]  So you've got to think about what you're eating, but you've also got to think about what you ate, what you're eating, what they ate.
[01:01:50]  Right.
[01:01:52]  Yeah.
[01:01:52]  I always thought that most things were cooked in olive oil.
[01:01:55]  The good oils are olive oil and what are the good oils?
[01:01:59]  Olive oil is good.
[01:02:01]  You know, in moderation um, because it has a pretty high omega 6 content.
[01:02:05]  But olive oil is great.
[01:02:07]  I, I love olive oil.
[01:02:08]  Um, I eat a lot of butter ghee.
[01:02:10]  Um, when I cook for myself at home, I use lard.
[01:02:13]  Uh, particularly if i'm like stir frying or cooking at high temperature and everyone's like, oh lard yeah, like lard, I render my, I make my own bone broths, so the fat that comes off the the bones and floats to the top I, I strain that off and and cool it back down and put it in a tub and use that for cooking and that is, that is wow, and I buy grass-fed Bone.
[01:02:34]  So I know that the fat that's there is really high steric acid.
[01:02:39]  Saturated fat has been demonized falsely.
[01:02:42]  And we need saturated fats.
[01:02:44]  It's essential for human survival.
[01:02:47]  It actually causes you to lean out.
[01:02:50]  If you eat more saturated fat, you will be a leaner person than if you're eating other fats.
[01:02:54]  Yeah, isn't the problem that you tell people that, but then they also mix in lots of carbs and fried stuff at the same time?
[01:03:00]  And that could be deadly, right?
[01:03:01]  That's deadly.
[01:03:01]  Yeah, that's the exact wrong combination.
[01:03:03]  If you throw saturated fat, Like, you know, the worst thing you could possibly eat probably is a donut.
[01:03:08]  You know, it is gluten fried in terrible oils covered in sugar.
[01:03:14]  You know, it's literally like toxic.
[01:03:17]  Right.
[01:03:17]  So if you think, like, you know, I want to eat more red meats, eat more butter, eat more of that fat, but I'm also going to have, you know, a donut for breakfast.
[01:03:24]  Yeah.
[01:03:25]  Then that's a deadly combo.
[01:03:26]  That's a bad combo.
[01:03:27]  Yeah.
[01:03:27]  That's a hard thing.
[01:03:28]  Or chips.
[01:03:29]  Right.
[01:03:30]  Or French fries or any of that stuff.
[01:03:32]  You know, we're talking carbs cooked in.
[01:03:34]  The problem is in like French fries and potato chips and stuff is those oils, when they're cooking at high temperature like that, those oils get damaged and they become, you know, they become worse.
[01:03:44]  They become hydrogenated oils, which is even worse for our system because it's more like plastic at that point.
[01:03:50]  So, yeah, the fried food, unfortunately, is really a no-go unless you're doing it yourself and you're frying it in coconut oil or lard or ghee.
[01:03:58]  Where do you get bones?
[01:03:59]  Like, where do you buy bones and get lard and stuff like that?
[01:04:01]  Yeah, so you can just buy that like Whole Foods or oh, really?
[01:04:05]  Yeah, you can buy, usually in the frozen section, there'll be a bag of grass-fed bones.
[01:04:08]  And I just take, I've got a, an insta pot and throw in my insta pot with some water usually, throw like a bay leaf in there and then uh throw it in and two hours later you've got beautiful brome broth.
[01:04:19]  Are they cow bone?
[01:04:20]  Yeah, they're just cow.
[01:04:21]  They tell you what kind of they market, what kind of bones they are yeah, okay.
[01:04:24]  Yeah yeah, they're.
[01:04:25]  They're cattle.
[01:04:25]  Yeah, it's beef.
[01:04:26]  Yeah, it's okay.
[01:04:27]  But if you can buy local too right, so you could, you could go to someone you know not far out of here that's uh raising their own beef and you know, buy a quarter beef and ask for the bones and they just kind of throw the bones in for nothing.
[01:04:39]  You end up getting all these bones in your Freezer for free.
[01:04:42]  That's what I do with lamb and local beef.
[01:04:45]  Um, and I'm fortunate right now that my brother in law got a big elk, so I'm stocked full of elk and some elk bones to go with that.
[01:04:52]  That I'm making my bone broth is delicious, yeah.
[01:04:55]  What about like, um, like the like the organ meats and stuff like that?
[01:04:59]  Do you guys eat a lot of like that stuff, like heart's liver and brains and stuff?
[01:05:03]  I do, I feed it to my children as well, really, yeah.
[01:05:05]  Like, um, I've kind of created this recipe, um, where I have a butcher.
[01:05:10]  I live in, I've been living in Australia for the past kind of 16 years, so.
[01:05:14]  I have a local butcher down there that'll make up.
[01:05:16]  I order 10 pounds of mincemeat.
[01:05:19]  And then to that, I add four pounds of heart, four pounds of liver, and two pounds of suet.
[01:05:25]  And suet is the fat that's stored above the kidney.
[01:05:29]  So, and it's very high steric acid, almost pure steric acid.
[01:05:33]  And so that gets ground up into my mints.
[01:05:35]  And then he just like puts that in individual little vacuum bags and I break it out and cook burgers and make taco mints or whatever that kids want to eat.
[01:05:43]  But it, it tastes more like you're eating.
[01:05:44]  Like if you make a burger out of that stuff, it tastes like you're eating a ribeye.
[01:05:47]  It's amazing.
[01:05:47]  Really?
[01:05:48]  And it's so nutritious because the nutrient density of, of liver and heart is way higher than just muscle meat.
[01:05:54]  And you can just go to your local butcher and get this stuff.
[01:05:56]  If you can get a butcher to do it for you, he just has to order them in because they don't normally carry heart, liver and suet, but they can get it.
[01:06:02]  Really?
[01:06:02]  Yeah.
[01:06:03]  And it's, I'm not, no joke, it is amazing.
[01:06:05]  And it, it, and it's very affordable.
[01:06:07]  It's not like you have to eat ribeyes to be, you know, to afford this kind of thing.
[01:06:11]  Like my, it drops the organ meats are, they almost give them to you.
[01:06:15]  They're like a couple dollars a pound, you know, versus like $12 a pound for the mincemeat, you know.
[01:06:20]  So it's like averages out to like six or eight bucks by the time they mix it all together.
[01:06:24]  It's pretty cheap, pretty cheap eating and it's super healthy.
[01:06:26]  Yeah.
[01:06:27]  I don't even know if there's any local butchers around here that do that kind of stuff.
[01:06:30]  I know, I have like butcher box.
[01:06:32]  You know, I've heard of that kind of stuff.
[01:06:33]  And there'll be local butchers that do it.
[01:06:35]  They'll be just outside of the city.
[01:06:37]  You'll have ranchers out there where you can take it and take it to the butcher and tell them what you want and order it that way.
[01:06:44]  So, when you, and particularly if you like take a quarter of a beef, which you can probably fit in your freezer, particularly if we have a garage refrigerator, then you can just tell them, like, I want the organ meats put into the ground meat.
[01:06:58]  And nobody else on that, the other three quarters of that beef, they probably didn't ask for the organ meat.
[01:07:03]  So you end up getting them all for nothing, basically.
[01:07:06]  Because a lot of people don't know how to prepare them, don't know to eat them.
[01:07:10]  But when you put them in the ground beef, everybody loves it.
[01:07:13]  It's so delicious.
[01:07:14]  I bet Dom might know.
[01:07:15]  Dom would definitely know.

=== Sharks and Local Butchers (08:15) ===

[01:07:17]  He knows.
[01:07:17]  He lives 20 minutes from here.
[01:07:18]  Yeah, and he has cattle.
[01:07:20]  Yes, he does, huh?
[01:07:21]  Yeah.
[01:07:23]  You live in Australia right now?
[01:07:25]  I have done, yeah.
[01:07:26]  Yeah, I'm just relocating back to North America right now.
[01:07:28]  I've been down there for a long time.
[01:07:29]  Well, I just now noticed your accent.
[01:07:31]  Did you just let it out right now?
[01:07:33]  I think you said minced instead of ground.
[01:07:36]  No one knows what minced is here.
[01:07:38]  Oh, right.
[01:07:39]  No, no, I know what minced is.
[01:07:39]  Okay, good.
[01:07:40]  Yeah, so, yeah, I've been down there for a while.
[01:07:43]  But with this company, I'm back here in North America now.
[01:07:47]  It's the same, at least for the foreseeable future.
[01:07:50]  Okay, I was just like, did you just travel from Australia like the last two days?
[01:07:54]  Just a couple, yeah, last week, two weeks ago.
[01:07:56]  So, yeah, so I'm fresh on the ground.
[01:07:59]  Wow, what's it been like in Australia during all this pandemic and stuff like that?
[01:08:03]  All you see in the news around here is how crazy it's been over there.
[01:08:06]  It's been a little, you know, Western Australia did an amazing job because it's so isolated.
[01:08:10]  You know, it's separated even from the rest of Australia by an enormous desert.
[01:08:14]  They did an amazing job of keeping COVID out.
[01:08:16]  All right.
[01:08:17]  It was, it was, there was no COVID, no community COVID spread in Western Australia until about two months ago when they decided to open the borders up.
[01:08:24]  Living there was difficult.
[01:08:26]  As I went back, we started this company in the last year.
[01:08:29]  I've gone back and forth, what, three times, four times now.
[01:08:31]  And each time I went back, I had to do two weeks of hotel quarantine.
[01:08:34]  So they take you from the airplane, escort you to military escort to a hotel room and they lock the door.
[01:08:40]  They don't lock the door.
[01:08:40]  It's open.
[01:08:41]  But they say, if you step outside this door, one foot outside is $1,000.
[01:08:44]  You step in the hallway, it's $5,000.
[01:08:46]  $5,000.
[01:08:46]  If you leave the building, $50,000 fine, six months in jail.
[01:08:50]  Oh my God, that's insane.
[01:08:52]  They're not joking.
[01:08:54]  And they enforce it.
[01:08:55]  So they did, I mean, I have to give them respect is that they protected the community.
[01:09:01]  They got their vaccination rate very high, and then they opened the borders.
[01:09:05]  And so, yeah, COVID's going wild there right now.
[01:09:07]  It's spreading around.
[01:09:08]  Omicron's spreading like crazy, but their deaths are super low because everyone's vaccinated.
[01:09:13]  So, you know, so they, Maybe they handled it right.
[01:09:17]  Maybe they didn't.
[01:09:18]  I don't know.
[01:09:19]  Time will tell.
[01:09:19]  But it was torturous for me because I am a very social person.
[01:09:23]  I'm a surfer.
[01:09:23]  I'm an outdoor kind of guy.
[01:09:24]  So to be locked in a hotel room where I couldn't get fresh air was torture.
[01:09:28]  So you live near, you said Western Australia?
[01:09:33]  Perth, yeah.
[01:09:33]  So where do you surf?
[01:09:35]  Perth has beach breaks and stuff.
[01:09:37]  Is that near Snap Rocks and Kira?
[01:09:39]  Opposite side of the country.
[01:09:40]  Opposite side, okay.
[01:09:41]  Yeah, our waves are a little bit bigger and meaner on the West Coast.
[01:09:43]  So we're facing the southern Indian Ocean.
[01:09:47]  So our swells come from just south of South Africa and the Margaret River region.
[01:09:52]  I don't know if you've ever seen the Margaret River Pro.
[01:09:53]  Oh, okay.
[01:09:53]  So Margie's.
[01:09:54]  So that's kind of where I go surf.
[01:09:55]  We have an island just off the coast.
[01:09:56]  Perth.
[01:09:56]  I surf there a lot, Rotnest Island.
[01:09:58]  There's a crazy wave right next to the Margaret River, that right-hand wave.
[01:10:03]  It's like a crazy mutant looking wave.
[01:10:05]  The box.
[01:10:05]  The box.
[01:10:06]  Yeah.
[01:10:07]  Yeah.
[01:10:07]  A friend of mine got seriously injured there, broke his back just earlier this year.
[01:10:11]  Yeah.
[01:10:12]  Yeah.
[01:10:12]  So yeah.
[01:10:13]  Surf the box?
[01:10:14]  Nope.
[01:10:14]  I don't like hitting rocks.
[01:10:17]  I got into tow surfing with my friends a few years ago.
[01:10:19]  So I like, we use jet skis and tow into the bigger stuff out the back on some of the bombies.
[01:10:23]  So that's good.
[01:10:24]  The bombies?
[01:10:25]  The bombies, yeah.
[01:10:26]  The dogs.
[01:10:26]  Shore bombies.
[01:10:27]  There's a few big ones out there.
[01:10:28]  Cow Bombies is one that's kind of world famous.
[01:10:30]  It's kind of in the same class as Jaws.
[01:10:34]  Oh, really?
[01:10:35]  It gets 60, 70, 80 foot.
[01:10:37]  It gets big.
[01:10:38]  But most of the breaks out there are rocky, right?
[01:10:40]  It's all reef break.
[01:10:41]  I mean, there's beach breaks along there.
[01:10:43]  But yeah, in the southwest, it's predominantly rocky reef.
[01:10:47]  And as you go north, tropical reef.
[01:10:50]  Like, I don't know if you've ever looked it up, but there's some amazing waves in the northwest.
[01:10:53]  Amazing.
[01:10:54]  Tombstones.
[01:10:56]  I have a lot of good friends that go out there all the time.
[01:10:59]  One of my good friends who actually was.
[01:11:00]  Born and raised here, like five minutes from here in this.
[01:11:03]  You know there's no surf in the west coast of Florida, but he's uh, his name's Corey Lopez.
[01:11:07]  He's a professional surfer and he's surfed on the world Tour for a long time and he goes there all the time and you know they go and they hunt all these waves that have never been discovered and they find little islands off of Australia and yeah, there's.
[01:11:19]  It's amazing.
[01:11:19]  Western Australia is a beautiful coastline.
[01:11:21]  I I surfed, just like the week before I came back, my my tow partner and I.
[01:11:24]  He took me to a left-hand barrel that no one surfs because it's kind of right, right in front of a cliff, so there's no entries for regular surfers.
[01:11:32]  You really need a ski to access this, this wave.
[01:11:35]  But um yeah, he put me into like 20 of the best barrels i've ever had.
[01:11:39]  It was just magic.
[01:11:40]  Yeah, it was pretty cool.
[01:11:41]  It was.
[01:11:42]  It's very lucky that you can still go do that totally by yourself really yeah, do you guys have a lot of big sharks out there?
[01:11:48]  Oh yeah really, oh yeah.
[01:11:49]  How often do people get like like bit around around where you live?
[01:11:55]  It's about one fatality a year.
[01:11:57]  You know, on average.
[01:11:59]  You know, when you look at statistically, that's, it's not even worth thinking, it's not even worth worrying about, because there's thousands of surface in the water every single day.
[01:12:05]  The sharks are always there.
[01:12:06]  It's not like they.
[01:12:07]  They go and come, they're always there.
[01:12:10]  Uh, you know, that's where they live and we're in the water with them interacting on a daily basis.
[01:12:14]  Yeah yeah, i'm sure you've seen the video of Mick Fanning and Jay Bay in South Africa.
[01:12:18]  That is the most insane thing that's ever been caught on video, for sure.
[01:12:21]  Yeah yeah yeah um, are those?
[01:12:23]  Are they great whites out there, or what?
[01:12:25]  What kind of sharks are there we have?
[01:12:26]  Yeah, great whites are the ones that typically take people in in Australia, western Australia particularly um, but no, we have bronze whalers, tiger sharks, bull sharks.
[01:12:35]  I'm gonna do a lot of spear fishing as well, so those are the species that you only see when you're spearing.
[01:12:40]  Um, I've never seen a white one spearing.
[01:12:42]  My friends have and had some interactions with them.
[01:12:45]  Actually, one of my best friends is a shark mitigation company.
[01:12:48]  Shout out to Shannon Whirl and Shark Eyes.
[01:12:50]  Really?
[01:12:50]  Shark mitigation.
[01:12:52]  How does that work?
[01:12:52]  Yeah, so he is a company where they have these stickers that you put on the bottom of your surf craft, whether it's a boogie board or surfboard, two big eyes that they've designed.
[01:13:00]  So sharks are ambush predators.
[01:13:03]  And so it really deters the shark from coming in and having a look at you.
[01:13:06]  Because a lot of times investigators can bite, right?
[01:13:08]  They just come up and go, what are you?
[01:13:09]  They're just like checking you out, yeah.
[01:13:11]  And then grab you and they let you go.
[01:13:14]  But grabbing you with their mouth, you know, there's a 20 foot long shark, you're dead.
[01:13:19]  It's going to separate you from your limbs.
[01:13:21]  You're going to bleed to death.
[01:13:22]  Yeah.
[01:13:22]  So he started that company a few years ago.
[01:13:24]  Now they've got wetsuits and stuff, and I use them.
[01:13:27]  They're on all my kids' crafts and Minecraft for sure.
[01:13:30]  And it gives you that little sense of confidence in the water that, you know, at least something's looking down.
[01:13:34]  And I've experientially, you know, when I spearfish, I've seen sharks.
[01:13:37]  And when you look at them, they swim away.
[01:13:39]  Right.
[01:13:41]  Like they'll start sneaking up on you, but if you're not looking, but soon as you look, they'll turn away.
[01:13:44]  Yeah, I do a lot of spearfishing around here, too.
[01:13:46]  There's a lot of big bull sharks around here on the West Coast.
[01:13:49]  Actually, on the East Coast, over in like New Smyrna, like three hours from here, there's a shark attack almost every day.
[01:13:55]  But they're little black tip sharks or spinner sharks.
[01:13:58]  They're tiny sharks.
[01:13:58]  They're everywhere you literally as soon as you get in the water certain time of the year, they're just like hydroplanting across the surface, like you have to like wait and wait till, like you like i've been hitting, hit by them, hydroplanting multiple times.
[01:14:12]  Wow, just surfing.
[01:14:13]  But they're tiny sharks, not really much to be afraid of.
[01:14:15]  You know most the worst that'll happen is you'll get a few stitches or something like that.
[01:14:19]  Yeah, Florida's the number one place in the world for shark attacks.
[01:14:21]  Yeah, a lot of bull shark attacks here because you know they have a lot of estuaries and stuff where they're breeding and then they're operating in shallow water.
[01:14:26]  So people get bit.
[01:14:27]  Yeah, there's actually a guy who jumped off his dock not too far from here on the West Coast just the other day or a couple years ago, But he would jump off his dock and go swimming every day in one of the little lagoons and then one day he jumped off his dock and jumped right on top of a bull shark and thing bit him in half and killed him.
[01:14:42]  Oh That happened recently no not recently.
[01:14:44]  It was probably eight years ago, but it was all over the news.
[01:14:46]  I mean, it was like one of the worst shark attacks on the West Coast of Florida in a long time Especially because the guy was like right behind his house.
[01:14:52]  Yeah, you know, and like three feet of water.
[01:14:54]  Oh wow But you said your kids surf too.
[01:14:57]  How old were they?
[01:14:58]  Yeah, 16 and 13.
[01:14:59]  Okay How old were they when you got them in the water for the first time?
[01:15:03]  Oh, they've been going in the ocean since they were born.
[01:15:06]  Really?
[01:15:06]  Swimming in the surf.
[01:15:08]  And then they do Surf Life Saving Club.
[01:15:11]  So they're all into it.
[01:15:12]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:15:13]  They really just started picking up surfing recently.
[01:15:15]  It takes a bit of courage.
[01:15:17]  Surfing is a different piece.
[01:15:19]  You're going to have to get comfortable wearing a few on the head.
[01:15:22]  Oh, yeah.
[01:15:22]  Especially from growing up in Australia.
[01:15:24]  I mean, coming here, you really don't have much to worry about.
[01:15:27]  No.
[01:15:27]  Where are you going to move when you come here?
[01:15:30]  Right now, I'm touching base in Colorado.

=== Synergy for Brain Growth (05:39) ===

[01:15:32]  Oh, yeah.
[01:15:33]  But.
[01:15:34]  I have yet to determine where I'll be permanently.
[01:15:36]  Yeah.
[01:15:37]  Okay.
[01:15:38]  Well, what is the future with first person?
[01:15:41]  And tell us, like, people that are listening or watching, where can they learn more about this stuff and find it?
[01:15:47]  Andor can you buy it yet?
[01:15:48]  Of course, yeah.
[01:15:49]  Okay.
[01:15:49]  We just launched on the 15th.
[01:15:51]  So getfirstperson.com is our website.
[01:15:53]  Okay.
[01:15:54]  And there's tons of information on there.
[01:15:57]  Yeah, the future is we'll continue to innovate consumer products around brain health and performance.
[01:16:05]  and lead to charging natural psychedelics as it starts to legalize.
[01:16:11]  We're going to be very involved in both those.
[01:16:13]  And of course, you'll see our ingredient potentially first grown trademark on shelves near you and different brands.
[01:16:23]  First grown?
[01:16:24]  That's our trademark product of how we process and grow the mushrooms up in Washington.
[01:16:29]  That's different than anything else that's out there in the market right now.
[01:16:33]  And so we're talking to some industry leading brands about.
[01:16:36]  Incorporating our product into their product.
[01:16:39]  And that'll be happening over the course of the next six months.
[01:16:42]  Okay, so when the psilocybin actually becomes legal to be on the market, will that just be like an additional product that people will be able to like stack with these or mix with these?
[01:16:50]  Correct.
[01:16:51]  Can you purchase all these separately or do they come together or how does it work?
[01:16:55]  Separately together.
[01:16:56]  Okay.
[01:16:56]  The tins are a nice little thing that's stacked together just as a way to store them differently.
[01:17:01]  We didn't want to have a bunch of plastic bottles out there and creating a bunch of waste.
[01:17:04]  So we do sachets that are refillable in those tins.
[01:17:09]  But yeah, I highly encourage people to give it a try, particularly the Golden Hour, which is unlike anything that's out there right now.
[01:17:18]  What makes the Golden Hour different?
[01:17:20]  Just its intent, right?
[01:17:22]  So it's hitting oxytocin, which a lot of the nootropic products out there are more about focus, you know, focus energy, get shit done, right?
[01:17:31]  So, you know, how about just that relaxed, calm, good feeling where you're just happy, your foot is tapping, and you feel good, right?
[01:17:40]  That's not a poison or a toxin to your brain.
[01:17:43]  So, super pumped about that.
[01:17:45]  I'm super excited about what's coming next in that world, in the future of drink and our social connections and redefining that.
[01:17:55]  particularly around alcohol right now.
[01:17:57]  We are, as a society, you know, it's part of our lives.
[01:18:01]  And that's not going away.
[01:18:02]  Mixing a drink, having drinks together, doing that for business, social, even, you know, even just get together with your friends and family has been centered around that for so long.
[01:18:14]  And just having an alternative to that that doesn't have to be so poisonous to our body and our brain is something that as a company that we're exploring for the future.
[01:18:27]  Is it recommended to like mix, like you can like mix this with people you out and have a drink you can have.
[01:18:32]  You take a couple of golden hours before you out, go out and have a couple cocktails, or something like that.
[01:18:36]  I feel like you don't need it right after having a couple of cocktails.
[01:18:39]  After, if you take some golden hour, you might be.
[01:18:41]  I don't really need that to loosen me up.
[01:18:43]  I'm feeling pretty good right now, particularly if you're microdosing you.
[01:18:47]  The urge to drink is not, it goes away, it's not there.
[01:18:50]  But you got to have something in your hand right?
[01:18:51]  Yeah, I drink, I drink soda water with lime.
[01:18:54]  Okay, and just so it looks like I'm having a cocktail yeah, and because people are like I have a drink like yeah, I'll get mine, It's fine.
[01:19:01]  And I order soda water with lime.
[01:19:02]  It looks like a vodka tonic.
[01:19:04]  Yeah.
[01:19:05]  And I'm a very thirsty drinker.
[01:19:07]  So I was just sitting there and I have like five or six of them.
[01:19:08]  They're like, man, you can handle your alcohol.
[01:19:10]  I'm like, yep.
[01:19:11]  Damn, this guy's had eight vodka sodas already.
[01:19:14]  That's right.
[01:19:17]  So, even in the morning, so like first thing in the morning, take a couple, like maybe like the Golden Hour or the Sunbeam together.
[01:19:23]  Yeah.
[01:19:23]  And you said that when you stack the Sunbeam and the Golden Hour, you could have something close to a psilocybin effect.
[01:19:30]  That's the feedback we're getting.
[01:19:31]  That's the feedback we're getting.
[01:19:32]  That was not expected.
[01:19:34]  We weren't, well, you didn't say that this was going to happen or it wasn't an intention, but that's what people keep telling us.
[01:19:39]  And I've experienced it myself.
[01:19:42]  So, one of my friends said that when I had a golden hour, it's like they felt like someone had just given them a big hug.
[01:19:47]  And I was like, that's, that's like, that's the feeling we were going for.
[01:19:51]  Like that, ah, you know, it's a nice feeling.
[01:19:55]  Yeah.
[01:19:55]  And which one has the lion's mane in it?
[01:19:58]  Golden hour and sunbeam both have lion's mane.
[01:20:00]  Both have lion's mane.
[01:20:01]  Okay.
[01:20:01]  I really enjoy lion's mane.
[01:20:02]  I've taken it with other supplements.
[01:20:03]  It's amazing.
[01:20:04]  I like it with my coffee.
[01:20:05]  I've been, It's shown to increase BDNF, you know, brain-derived nootropic factor, which causes dendrite growth, myelination of your neurons.
[01:20:13]  It's really where the synaptic gaps happen, where the neurotransmitters bind are in the myelin sheath around your neuron.
[01:20:21]  So that is really exciting that research is showing that, that increases that.
[01:20:26]  You know, when you stack that with psilocybin, we really think there's a synergy there from our own personal experience that when you have that increased BDNF from the lion's mane and then you're also throwing, That increased dendrite growth and stuff from the psilocybin.
[01:20:40]  I think it's very powerful for brain health.
[01:20:42]  And this is why we created these products.
[01:20:45]  So, how is it, Danny?
[01:20:47]  We're 30 minutes in since you popped that microdose and then had some first person to stack it with.
[01:20:54]  I don't know.
[01:20:56]  I feel super relaxed.
[01:20:58]  I feel happy and chill.
[01:21:01]  I don't feel anxious.
[01:21:06]  Anxiety at all or any sort of anxious.
[01:21:08]  I just feel very calm and relaxed.
[01:21:10]  Good.
[01:21:10]  And focused.
[01:21:11]  And focused.

=== Powerful Tools for Health (00:54) ===

[01:21:12]  Nice.
[01:21:12]  And focused.
[01:21:13]  I feel I shouldn't have drank that giant Celsius, but usually, like when I drink an energy drink, right?
[01:21:19]  Or I drink a bunch of coffee or caffeine or espresso, I kind of have this, like, you know what I mean?
[01:21:25]  Like my brain's going faster than my mouth can move.
[01:21:27]  But when, like, with this stuff, I feel more calm.
[01:21:29]  I feel like I can think and talk.
[01:21:32]  I can, everything's smoother.
[01:21:34]  I can slows down and like I can focus better.
[01:21:38]  Yeah.
[01:21:38]  If that makes any sense.
[01:21:39]  Yeah.
[01:21:40]  Awesome.
[01:21:40]  It's doing its job, right?
[01:21:41]  Yeah.
[01:21:42]  That's right.
[01:21:42]  That's right.
[01:21:43]  Well, thank you guys.
[01:21:44]  Can I keep these?
[01:21:44]  Of course.
[01:21:45]  Awesome.
[01:21:46]  Well, I appreciate you guys coming down and talking about this.
[01:21:48]  I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from it as well.
[01:21:51]  So, thanks again, guys.
[01:21:52]  Thanks, Danny.
[01:21:52]  Firstpersongroup.com.
[01:21:54]  That's what it is.
[01:21:54]  GetFirstPerson.com for the consumer product.
[01:21:57]  For sure.
[01:21:57]  GetFirstPerson.com.
[01:21:58]  GetFirstPerson.com.
[01:21:59]  Awesome.
[01:22:00]  Yeah.
[01:22:00]  On Instagram as well, TikTok, that kind of thing.
[01:22:03]  Okay.
[01:22:03]  Awesome.
[01:22:04]  Well, thanks again, guys.
[01:22:05]  Thanks, Danny.
[01:22:05]  Appreciate it.
[01:22:05]  Appreciate it.
[01:22:06]  Goodbye, world.