Danny Jones Podcast - #74 - Uncovering the Murder of an LA Kingpin | Matthew Cox
Aired: 2021-02-02
Duration: 02:34:43


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[00:00:00]  We're going to start posting each podcast episode that you see on YouTube a week earlier on Patreon.
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[00:00:25]  What's up, world?
[00:00:26]  We're back with everyone's favorite con man, Matthew Beecox.
[00:00:30]  On this podcast, Matt reveals an unsolved murder which was ordered by a member of the Sinaloa cartel.
[00:00:37]  Matt uncovered this murderer while doing research on another true crime story while he was still in federal prison.
[00:00:45]  Basically, the murderer confessed and he actually disclosed evidence to a jailhouse lawyer who was helping him work his case.
[00:00:54]  And this jailhouse lawyer disclosed all of this information to Matt that actually proves that this guy ordered this murder.
[00:01:01]  The craziest thing is, this murderer.
[00:01:04]  Is probably not going to be prosecuted because the LA homicide detectives' witnesses are currently in federal prison and they're in fear for their own lives.
[00:01:14]  In addition, the homicide detectives actually verified that the murderer has confessed to multiple inmates that he's committed the murders.
[00:01:22]  I hope you guys love this one as much as I did.
[00:01:24]  This is Peak Matt Cox.
[00:01:34]  Are you 100% sure that we're not going to get whacked by anybody for telling the story in the podcast?
[00:01:41]  No, but I mean, I've done prison time.
[00:01:43]  I've had a good life.
[00:01:44]  I've been in prison time.
[00:01:44]  I've been married.
[00:01:46]  I've got a kid.
[00:01:47]  I've got a hot girlfriend.
[00:01:48]  I've gotten pretty much everything life's going to give out of me.
[00:01:50]  So if I get, as long as it's quick, my fear is that they grab you and they put you in a vat of acid while you're alive or something.
[00:01:56]  It's how I go.
[00:01:57]  I don't mind going.
[00:01:58]  I just want to be shot in the back of the head and I don't even know what's happening.
[00:02:00]  Yeah.
[00:02:01]  It's the idea that they kidnap you and torture you for a couple of days.
[00:02:04]  That sucks.
[00:02:07]  Yeah.
[00:02:07]  That's the cartel, bro.
[00:02:08]  Yeah, this is a cartel story, and you're telling a story basically about a fucking assassin, and you're basically snitching on this assassin.
[00:02:15]  That hurts my feelings that you would say that.
[00:02:17]  I didn't snitch.
[00:02:18]  I'm just telling the story.
[00:02:19]  You're just telling the story.
[00:02:19]  But you're telling it on our platform, and we don't want to get killed.
[00:02:21]  We want to live.
[00:02:22]  No, of course.
[00:02:23]  But the nice thing is the bulk of the people that are involved in the story, the higher ups that would actually order some kind of a murder or something, are basically all incarcerated or dead.
[00:02:34]  They're already dead.
[00:02:35]  Yeah.
[00:02:35]  Okay, gotcha.
[00:02:36]  Well, and the other thing is.
[00:02:40]  You know, this happened a while ago back in 2011.
[00:02:44]  And, you know, the other thing, remember I told you to talk to the homicide detective?
[00:02:49]  Yes.
[00:02:49]  He specifically told me, you understand, putting the story out, that's dangerous.
[00:02:55]  Because it's a cartel-related murder, he was, I have to tell you that you could be in danger.
[00:03:01]  I was like, Jesus, bro.
[00:03:05]  Way to win me over on cooperating.
[00:03:08]  Am I in danger?
[00:03:12]  I don't think anybody's in danger.
[00:03:16]  I'm sure we're fine.
[00:03:18]  Fuck it.
[00:03:19]  Fuck it, bro.
[00:03:22]  You got me.
[00:03:22]  Why would you even say all that?
[00:03:23]  You get me.
[00:03:24]  You say these things that I don't even.
[00:03:25]  I'm not even thinking about it.
[00:03:26]  Now you got me fucking calling.
[00:03:27]  That's the first thing I thought of when you told me this story.
[00:03:29]  And you told me that the guy that you were talking to.
[00:03:31]  How do you think I felt when the homicide detective was in danger?
[00:03:33]  Tell me about this homicide detective.
[00:03:34]  Who is he?
[00:03:35]  How did you meet him?
[00:03:37]  Well, I didn't meet him.
[00:03:40]  I called on the.
[00:03:41]  Do you remember when I called?
[00:03:42]  Yeah.
[00:03:43]  Yeah, however, you got in touch with this guy.
[00:03:45]  Well, that was just I had gotten out and I was out of the halfway house and I was still researching the story.
[00:03:52]  So I contacted the homicide detective about the Jose Pada murder, which is the murder that happens in the story.
[00:03:59]  And I contacted the detective.
[00:04:03]  What happened was I called.
[00:04:04]  This is funny because this was only about a month or two after your first podcast that I did with you.
[00:04:11]  Like last November?
[00:04:12]  Yeah.
[00:04:13]  Yeah.
[00:04:14]  Was it November?
[00:04:15]  No, no, no, no.
[00:04:16]  I did the podcast.
[00:04:19]  Was it?
[00:04:19]  It was about November.
[00:04:20]  It was either October or November.
[00:04:22]  I think it was October.
[00:04:23]  And it was like a month or so later, I called this guy.
[00:04:27]  A couple months later.
[00:04:28]  Because when I called, I called up the hunt, and he was in California.
[00:04:32]  What's wrong?
[00:04:33]  No, I was just seeing what kind of shit he's drinking today.
[00:04:39]  This is, you wonder why we get the comments that say, How could you, how dare you interrupt Matt?
[00:04:44]  I didn't interrupt him.
[00:04:46]  You didn't have to stop.
[00:04:48]  I'm distracted easily.
[00:04:49]  So, what happened was I actually contacted the homicide unit.
[00:04:54]  Okay.
[00:04:54]  Well, the detective that answered the phone call, he was like, Yeah, who's this?
[00:04:59]  What's the, okay.
[00:05:00]  He didn't even say who's this.
[00:05:01]  He's like, Yeah, what are you calling about?
[00:05:02]  I mean, real, just kind of rude, right?
[00:05:04]  I don't know if you speak with, you know, cops and stuff, but they're usually like very, very arrogant.
[00:05:09]  Yeah.
[00:05:10]  And very, you know, to the point.
[00:05:12]  All right.
[00:05:13]  What are you calling?
[00:05:13]  What are you calling for?
[00:05:15]  So, I'm calling about a murder.
[00:05:16]  Which murder?
[00:05:16]  He's like, Okay, who's the detective?
[00:05:17]  I don't know.
[00:05:18]  I'm trying to figure it out.
[00:05:18]  Okay, what's the guy's name?
[00:05:19]  Who's the victim?
[00:05:20]  And I go, Jose Pada.
[00:05:21]  He goes, hold on.
[00:05:23]  Okay.
[00:05:24]  He goes, all right, yeah, yeah, that's Detective, you know, whatever, Johnson.
[00:05:28]  I forget his name.
[00:05:28]  You know, that's Detective Johnson.
[00:05:30]  And I'm like, okay.
[00:05:32]  And he says, okay, he's not here right now.
[00:05:33]  He's at home.
[00:05:34]  It's his day off.
[00:05:34]  He said, but if it's important, I'll call him at home and have him call you back.
[00:05:38]  He goes, what's this about?
[00:05:39]  And I went, well, I just, I want to talk to him about this, about the, it's an unsolved murder.
[00:05:43]  And I said, I have evidence that I think that I'd like to discuss with him.
[00:05:49]  And he goes, okay, okay.
[00:05:50]  He said, and what's your name?
[00:05:51]  I go, my name's Matt Cox.
[00:05:53]  And he said, the con man?
[00:05:55]  No.
[00:05:56]  Ask Danny.
[00:05:57]  And I went, what?
[00:06:00]  And he goes, the con man?
[00:06:01]  He goes, bro, I knew I recognized your voice.
[00:06:03]  He goes, my wife and I watched your podcast.
[00:06:05]  Two days ago, he goes, No way.
[00:06:07]  He goes, We're watching the second one, it just came out, right?
[00:06:09]  He said, With that uh, uh, that concrete thing, right?
[00:06:12]  Yeah, we watch it.
[00:06:12]  He goes, Bro, it's a great story, man.
[00:06:14]  It's a great story.
[00:06:15]  He's, I knew I recognized you.
[00:06:16]  He's, This is Matt Cox, right?
[00:06:17]  And I was like, I'm sitting there thinking, I felt like I was being punked.
[00:06:22]  Yeah, like I was like, Remember, because as soon as I told him, I said, Yeah, he goes, Is this one of your stories?
[00:06:27]  Is that what you're working on a story?
[00:06:29]  I was like, Yeah, I actually already wrote the story, but I'd really love to see it come to a conclusion.
[00:06:33]  Right now, it's kind of anticlimactic, but I'd love to see it.
[00:06:36]  You know there'd be a an actual um the the case get resolved.
[00:06:40]  I'd love to be a part of that.
[00:06:41]  And he goes, oh absolutely, yeah.
[00:06:42]  Yeah, i'm gonna call detective Johnson at home right now and get him to call you back.
[00:06:45]  What's your number?
[00:06:47]  Let me get him on.
[00:06:47]  Three way.
[00:06:48]  I was like, oh my god, he's like I can't believe.
[00:06:51]  I'm gonna call my wife and tell her I talked to you.
[00:06:52]  That's amazing.
[00:06:53]  That was just crazy.
[00:06:55]  Now the video had gotten like it was almost at a million views, because I hung up the phone and I called you and this is typical Danny.
[00:07:02]  I called Danny.
[00:07:02]  I said bro listen, what just happened?
[00:07:04]  Man, this is what happened.
[00:07:05]  Blah blah blah, blah.
[00:07:06]  I go.
[00:07:07]  The guy's like, and he had actually watched the podcast, he was in California and he goes, Well, you know, the internet, or you know, YouTube's global, right?
[00:07:17]  And I was just like, That's what I thought.
[00:07:21]  It's the internet, it's not only in Florida, right?
[00:07:23]  Yeah, I was like, Yeah, all right.
[00:07:25]  Well, the idea that he would see it is kind of crazy.
[00:07:29]  He's like, Well, he's in law enforcement, so you know, he immediately tries to start to belittle it, yeah, yeah, you know, like you're just a typical idiot.
[00:07:34]  Yeah, I was just like, Yeah, all right, forget it.
[00:07:35]  You're not supposed to be excited and everything, yeah, I was excited on the inside, yeah, right?
[00:07:40]  That's got to be one of the first times the cops ever been happy to talk to you.
[00:07:45]  No, they're all.
[00:07:45]  Or I guess they'll have that.
[00:07:46]  I was happy to talk to him.
[00:07:47]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:48]  It was in a nice way.
[00:07:49]  Yeah.
[00:07:51]  What's funny is that the other cop called me immediately, the detective.
[00:07:56]  Yeah.
[00:07:56]  And he was, and I was like, okay.
[00:07:59]  I said, hey, my name's Matt Cox.
[00:08:00]  And I did this.
[00:08:01]  He goes, I know who you are, Mr. Cox.
[00:08:02]  I've read the source.
[00:08:04]  The name of the story is the source.
[00:08:07]  He's read the source.
[00:08:08]  Yeah.
[00:08:08]  Oh, shit.
[00:08:09]  I was like, wow.
[00:08:12]  It was bizarre.
[00:08:13]  It was bizarre.
[00:08:15]  And that's, you know, I even, you, and I think when we talked, you were like, oh, you got to come on and do the story.
[00:08:20]  But the guy that's involved in it at the time, he was like, nah, bro.
[00:08:22]  He's like, don't, do this.
[00:08:25]  Let's wait.
[00:08:26]  I mean, he's, listen, he's worried.
[00:08:28]  Who?
[00:08:29]  The main, when I tell you the story, the guy who's basically, he's the jailhouse lawyer.
[00:08:35]  And his name is, it's Chris, it's Chris Silva, but it's not Chris Silva.
[00:08:39]  Like I've changed the name because, I mean, he's literally concerned that someone on the street could get hurt, like a family member or he, I mean, he's incarcerated, he could get hurt.
[00:08:46]  I mean, he's, he's concerned.
[00:08:49]  Sure.
[00:08:50]  So I didn't say anything then, but like a month or so ago, I had talked to him and I said, look, what do you want to do, bro?
[00:08:56]  You know, you want me to talk about the story?
[00:08:58]  There's no movement.
[00:08:59]  What do you want?
[00:08:59]  He goes, yeah, go ahead.
[00:09:00]  Go ahead and do something.
[00:09:01]  Go ahead and do a podcast or something.
[00:09:03]  He's like, well, you think somebody will do it?
[00:09:05]  I was like, I'll call Danny.
[00:09:06]  Danny will do it.

=== The Jalisco Cartel Price (05:06) ===

[00:09:07]  You know?
[00:09:07]  Okay, well, let's tell the story chronologically from start to finish.
[00:09:12]  Okay.
[00:09:12]  And not try to like jump around because a few of these we've done, we've jumped around and confused people.
[00:09:16]  Right, right.
[00:09:17]  Yeah, well, that little the homicide detective thing was just that's hilarious.
[00:09:22]  Yeah, that's amazing.
[00:09:22]  It's funny, it has nothing to do with the story.
[00:09:24]  So, how did this whole thing start?
[00:09:27]  Okay.
[00:09:28]  So he's got a stack of paperwork for people who are only listening on audio.
[00:09:33]  Matt has got a stack about three inches deep of 302 reports.
[00:09:39]  Exhibit A. He's got evidence.
[00:09:41]  He's got all kinds of stuff he's going through.
[00:09:44]  They're not 302s.
[00:09:45]  They would be DEA 6s.
[00:09:46]  But still, yes, same basic concept.
[00:09:50]  Okay.
[00:09:50]  So.
[00:09:52]  Oh, Jesus.
[00:09:53]  Are you serious?
[00:09:54]  This is ridiculous, bro.
[00:09:56]  I'm sorry.
[00:09:57]  Sorry.
[00:09:58]  I'll hang up.
[00:09:59]  I'll put, you didn't tell me.
[00:10:01]  You got to tell me.
[00:10:02]  All right.
[00:10:02]  Matthew Cox, no manners.
[00:10:04]  Okay.
[00:10:05]  So, all right.
[00:10:10]  So from the beginning, I'll do it like this.
[00:10:12]  Yes.
[00:10:13]  From the beginning.
[00:10:14]  All right.
[00:10:17]  All right.
[00:10:17]  So everybody, not everybody.
[00:10:19]  Okay.
[00:10:19]  You understand there's, as far as cartels are concerned, like Mexican cartels, right?
[00:10:24]  Drug cartels.
[00:10:26]  There are multiple Mexican drug cartels.
[00:10:29]  All right.
[00:10:30]  The biggest one at one point in time was the Sinaloa cartel.
[00:10:34]  El Chapo's?
[00:10:35]  El Chapo's, right.
[00:10:36]  Okay.
[00:10:36]  It's actually run by, at its height, everybody always thinks of El Chapo because he was the most well-known, but there's actually a guy, Mayo Zambada and El Chapo, who actually started it.
[00:10:47]  Okay, so the Sinaloa cartel, easy for you to say.
[00:10:50]  Take two.
[00:10:51]  So the Sinaloa cartel basically created a federation of cartels, and then ultimately, and this is funny because they all kind of started being known as the Sinaloa cartel, right?
[00:11:01]  But it wasn't.
[00:11:01]  It was the Sinaloa was one of them, and then El Chapo got a lot of press.
[00:11:05]  There was a lot of murders, and he was very outlandish.
[00:11:10]  Outlandish.
[00:11:11]  And so people started saying, oh, that's El Chapo's.
[00:11:13]  He's running that.
[00:11:14]  But really, it's Mayo Zimbat is really probably the brains behind the operation.
[00:11:21]  So who is Mayo?
[00:11:23]  Mayo Zimbat is a, he's actually never been arrested.
[00:11:26]  There's like one shitty photo of him out there.
[00:11:29]  And he's basically, he's like 70-something years old, trying to retire.
[00:11:32]  He's actually told the government like five or ten years ago, he actually told the Mexican government, like, look, like, let me pay you a billion dollars and we'll – I'll stop.
[00:11:45]  We're good.
[00:11:46]  Yeah, I'm good.
[00:11:46]  And they're like, no.
[00:11:48]  No.
[00:11:50]  You know, because that's basically what, what, what's his name?
[00:11:52]  Pablo Escobar was like, look, he tried to pay off like everybody.
[00:11:56]  Yeah.
[00:11:56]  Well, the national debt.
[00:11:57]  He's like, national debt.
[00:11:58]  You give me a thing.
[00:11:58]  I'm out.
[00:11:59]  And they were like, no, you got to go to prison.
[00:12:00]  They should have taken it.
[00:12:01]  Fuck it.
[00:12:02]  Yeah.
[00:12:02]  Well, he ended up going to, he ended up building his own prison and murdering people inside of it.
[00:12:06]  And everyone's like, come on, what are you doing, bro?
[00:12:08]  I would have taken, just take the money.
[00:12:09]  Oh, you got to pass.
[00:12:10]  Yeah.
[00:12:11]  Wipe the national debt clean.
[00:12:13]  Yeah.
[00:12:15]  Okay, so the Sinaloa cartel smuggles, you know, billions of dollars worth of drugs across the, into the United States, right?
[00:12:25]  So what happens is, is most people think, oh, all the cocaine, yeah, it's all made in Mexico.
[00:12:31]  Not really.
[00:12:31]  It's really more made in Colombia and Venezuela.
[00:12:34]  And as it moves up through South America, your basic kilo of cocaine, which is like $1,500 when it's made, as it gets closer to the border, every step of the way, it becomes more and more expensive.
[00:12:47]  You've got to keep paying to have it transferred here, transferred there.
[00:12:49]  Checkpoints.
[00:12:50]  Right.
[00:12:50]  Well, and just the movement and you've got to pay off.
[00:12:53]  You've got to pay people off.
[00:12:55]  Some of it gets seized, whatever.
[00:12:58]  So once it gets to the border, it's one price.
[00:13:00]  And then once it goes through the tunnels, it's another price.
[00:13:05]  And keep in mind, all these cartels work with one another.
[00:13:07]  So the Sinaloa cartel might actually be at war with, let's say, the New Generation cartel, but they'll still deal with them.
[00:13:15]  We're at war killing each other.
[00:13:17]  I know we hate each other.
[00:13:18]  I know your guys killed a bunch of my guys yesterday, and we're having a war and we're taking over each other's territory.
[00:13:24]  But listen, I've got like 2,000 kilos of Coke and I need to get it through one of your tunnels and we don't know where it is.
[00:13:31]  We'd rather pay you 500 bucks per kilo to get it under.
[00:13:34]  What do you think?
[00:13:35]  Yeah, of course.
[00:13:35]  Of course.
[00:13:36]  Come on.
[00:13:36]  I mean, they're still doing business.
[00:13:39]  Right.
[00:13:39]  Kind of like America.
[00:13:41]  Right.
[00:13:41]  So what happens is as it gets closer, it becomes the price changes.
[00:13:47]  And that's basically why the subtitle is The Twisted Tale of How an L.A. Kingpin Paid the Jalisco Price.
[00:13:56]  What is Jalisco?
[00:13:57]  Jalisco is a town in the Mexican side of the border.
[00:14:01]  And that's what the whole argument was, this whole thing kind of started at.
[00:14:04]  Once there's a bunch of money and these two guys are arguing over how much to pay.
[00:14:09]  And somebody ends up getting killed as a result of that.
[00:14:12]  So that's it.

=== Negotiating Drug Tunnel Passage (15:17) ===

[00:14:14]  The name of the story is the source.
[00:14:16]  It's the twisted tale of how an L.A. kingpin paid the Jalisco price.
[00:14:23]  So with that said, we know about the cartel now.
[00:14:27]  We know what the title means.
[00:14:29]  Here's what happened.
[00:14:30]  There was a guy named Juan.
[00:14:32]  Garcia, Juan Garcia's, like niece or nephew or sister, married into the Sinaloa cartel.
[00:14:42]  So she married some.
[00:14:43]  She married like Mayo's nephews one of Mayo's nieces or nephews.
[00:14:48]  Hold on a second.
[00:14:49]  Sorry to interrupt.
[00:14:49]  What where?
[00:14:50]  So where's this guy coming from?
[00:14:52]  Like, how did you get introduced to who this guy was?
[00:14:54]  No, I haven't.
[00:14:55]  I haven't met any of these people okay, so?
[00:14:57]  So you're basically the guy that you met in prison.
[00:14:59]  Who's the lawyer is telling you the story of this guy, Right?
[00:15:03]  Jailhouse lawyer.
[00:15:04]  So he's not a real lawyer.
[00:15:05]  The jailhouse lawyer, did he know this guy in person?
[00:15:07]  No.
[00:15:07]  I'm going to get to it all.
[00:15:08]  I mean, I can tell you how I met him.
[00:15:09]  Basically, I met a guy.
[00:15:12]  I met a guy who does law work in prison.
[00:15:15]  Yeah.
[00:15:15]  I think it's better to start with that, how you met that guy.
[00:15:18]  And then that kind of like introduces the whole story.
[00:15:20]  Okay.
[00:15:21]  The way I ended up with the story was this.
[00:15:24]  I was in the middle of.
[00:15:26]  I'd written a book called Once a Gun Runner.
[00:15:29]  Right.
[00:15:29]  With Deveroli.
[00:15:30]  Deveroli, which Deveroli then got out of prison with the manuscript.
[00:15:34]  According to DeVaroli and all of his motions, Warner Brothers got a hold of the manuscript and used it to write the movie War Dogs.
[00:15:45]  He was in the middle of suing them, but DeVaroli had never paid me.
[00:15:49]  If you saw the movie, you know he's not a soft and cuddly guy.
[00:15:54]  He actually took the manuscript and never paid me for it.
[00:15:57]  He was going to send me money.
[00:15:58]  He was going to publish the book.
[00:15:59]  Did he sign anything?
[00:16:01]  Yeah, he signed.
[00:16:01]  You got him to sign shit when you wrote it?
[00:16:04]  Yeah, I signed some sort of waiver.
[00:16:06]  Contract.
[00:16:07]  What do you mean?
[00:16:07]  Oh, you signed a contract with him in prison?
[00:16:08]  I don't need a waiver.
[00:16:09]  If you're dealing, if we're, you keep with the waiver.
[00:16:13]  You said that last time about some, somewhat about a, what, did you get a waiver?
[00:16:16]  There's not, I don't need a waiver.
[00:16:17]  If you're working with me and we're writing a book.
[00:16:19]  So you signed like a works for hire contract with me.
[00:16:21]  Exactly.
[00:16:21]  That's, that was, that's what happened.
[00:16:24]  So I signed a contract.
[00:16:25]  But the problem is you're supposed to pay me when the book gets published.
[00:16:28]  Book was published.
[00:16:28]  You never paid me.
[00:16:29]  I just sue him.
[00:16:31]  Point is, so I'm, I just found out that he had published the book and that he was suing Warner Brothers and he's not contacting me at all.
[00:16:37]  At that point, I still had, I was, I still had.
[00:16:40]  15 years to go on my sentence.
[00:16:42]  So he's thinking he's never seeing me again.
[00:16:43]  I don't have to pay that guy.
[00:16:45]  That guy's gone.
[00:16:45]  Yeah.
[00:16:46]  So what ended up happening was I was looking for someone to help me with legal work.
[00:16:51]  Well, Frank Amadeo, which is another book I wrote called It's Insanity.
[00:16:55]  Frank Amadeo was too busy.
[00:16:57]  Okay.
[00:16:57]  He's doing people's criminal cases.
[00:17:00]  You're doing someone's criminal case, a civil case is like, I'm trying to get this guy out of prison.
[00:17:04]  Yeah.
[00:17:05]  And you're concerned because you haven't got your several thousand dollars or whatever.
[00:17:09]  It's like, what are you doing?
[00:17:10]  I don't have time for this shit.
[00:17:11]  Yeah.
[00:17:12]  What happened was, I ended up talking.
[00:17:13]  There was another guy who just arrived.
[00:17:15]  All right.
[00:17:16]  He had just arrived in prison or at the low security prison from California.
[00:17:23]  So I go up to him and I say, hey, man, listen, I heard you do legal work.
[00:17:25]  I said, I have a problem.
[00:17:26]  And I explained the whole problem and he goes, okay.
[00:17:28]  And then he said, let me check it out.
[00:17:30]  He goes to legal work.
[00:17:31]  A couple days later, he comes back.
[00:17:32]  He goes, I think we can sue him for this breach of contract, blah, blah, blah.
[00:17:35]  I said, okay, cool.
[00:17:36]  He said, we can definitely do that.
[00:17:39]  So he says he agrees to go ahead and take on the case.
[00:17:42]  No problem.
[00:17:43]  Well, as we start walking around, I ask him questions.
[00:17:47]  You know, we start walking the track, talking about the case.
[00:17:51]  And I'm asking him about him.
[00:17:52]  I'm like, oh, you heard from Ella?
[00:17:53]  Yeah, you know, drug cape, big drug case.
[00:17:55]  There's a lot of guys, blah, blah, blah.
[00:17:56]  Okay.
[00:17:57]  So as we're walking, and his name, like I said, Chris Silva.
[00:18:02]  So Chris and I are walking around.
[00:18:04]  That's his real name?
[00:18:04]  No, it's not his real name.
[00:18:06]  That's a pseudonym because he's concerned about getting hurt or anybody getting hurt as a result.
[00:18:12]  So as we're walking around, I'm like, well, were you, he was so well spoken and was so knowledgeable on the law.
[00:18:18]  I thought he might have been a lawyer on the street.
[00:18:19]  And I said, so were you a lawyer on the street?
[00:18:21]  He said, nah, I was here for drugs.
[00:18:22]  He said, I'm here for drugs.
[00:18:23]  And I was like, oh, okay.
[00:18:24]  He goes, what are you here for?
[00:18:26]  I go, con man.
[00:18:27]  Like that.
[00:18:27]  And he goes, nice.
[00:18:29]  Nice.
[00:18:30]  So we're walking around the track.
[00:18:32]  And he goes, he said, yeah, I just started doing law work when I got locked up.
[00:18:37]  I had so much time.
[00:18:38]  And I was in California.
[00:18:39]  It's almost all cartel guys.
[00:18:41]  So I started working with the cartel guys and helping them try and get out of, you know, get their sentences reduced.
[00:18:49]  And so he would do stuff like try and get, he started off slow.
[00:18:52]  He started getting people's, like, they have, you have like a, You have an open case in California or an open case in fucking whatever, in Nevada, but you can't get a treaty transfer until those cases get resolved.
[00:19:02]  So he started knocking off all these, they're called detainers, getting rid of detainers, that sort of thing.
[00:19:06]  Eventually, he gets better and better.
[00:19:08]  Before you know it, he's working with these high priced lawyers.
[00:19:10]  Like you're some Mexican cartel guy.
[00:19:13]  You've got millions of dollars.
[00:19:14]  You can hire some lawyer for half a million dollars.
[00:19:16]  Well, the problem is that lawyer's like, look, this guy doesn't read English.
[00:19:21]  Yeah.
[00:19:21]  Like, so Chris would come in, read all his paperwork.
[00:19:25]  And then it talked to the lawyer for him.
[00:19:26]  He also doesn't, not only doesn't read English, he probably doesn't even speak English.
[00:19:29]  So he becomes the go-between.
[00:19:31]  That seems like a really great thing to do once you get locked up in prison.
[00:19:35]  Legal.
[00:19:35]  It seems like something that could like really occupy your time.
[00:19:38]  Not only occupy your time, but also give you like some sort of value.
[00:19:42]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:19:43]  And protect you.
[00:19:44]  You know what I mean?
[00:19:44]  Well, that's the big thing with him is that he wasn't a gang member.
[00:19:47]  Right.
[00:19:48]  He's not a cartel member.
[00:19:49]  So you're not with a gang.
[00:19:50]  You're not with a cartel.
[00:19:51]  You got to find something to do.
[00:19:53]  You need to make yourself valuable.
[00:19:55]  Right.
[00:19:56]  Exactly.
[00:19:56]  Otherwise, you're a victim.
[00:19:57]  Yeah.
[00:19:58]  You know, there's only, you know, Sheep and wolves exactly so and if you're doing that kind of shit for those kind of guys They're they'll protect you because you're saving their ass.
[00:20:09]  Yeah, I remember well, I was he told me this one story was hilarious.
[00:20:12]  I was like he was like only had one one problem ever because he just wasn't affiliated and guys are like, you know who you affiliate with I'm not and then they'd ask around like hey man, that guy's not affiliated.
[00:20:21]  What's up with that guy?
[00:20:22]  And then they'd be like don't touch him Don't even talk to that guy, you know, so what happens is he starts getting better and better and he did this for five or 10 years.
[00:20:31]  And before you know it, he's really taking on guys' cases.
[00:20:33]  Like he's doing 2255s, right?
[00:20:35]  So he's knocking and he's, and he's has starts having this great track record.
[00:20:41]  And because he would really do the research, like I'm not going to file crap.
[00:20:45]  A lot of guys will just take your money.
[00:20:46]  Yeah.
[00:20:47]  All right, man, have your family put 1500 bucks and I'll take your case knowing that you don't have a prayer.
[00:20:53]  Yeah.
[00:20:54]  And they do that all the time.
[00:20:55]  Like I always joke around.
[00:20:56]  I'm like, you understand I could write a motion in green crown and send it in.
[00:21:01]  And it could say, do the right.
[00:21:04]  This is Matt Cox's do the right thing motion.
[00:21:07]  And the government would respond like it was a real motion.
[00:21:10]  The government, the court be like, the government is ordered to respond to Mr. Cox's do the right thing motion pursuant to section such and such.
[00:21:20]  I mean, if you didn't know anybody, you'd read the whole thing and think, man, they're taking this guy seriously.
[00:21:23]  This guy's doing something serious.
[00:21:24]  Yeah.
[00:21:25]  Because you don't know anything.
[00:21:26]  You're some drug dealer.
[00:21:28]  You rob banks.
[00:21:29]  You don't know anything.
[00:21:30]  Right.
[00:21:31]  And that's the worst thing.
[00:21:32]  So you get these guys in here who act like they're big shot.
[00:21:35]  They really know what they're doing, but they don't.
[00:21:37]  They just know more than you.
[00:21:38]  Yeah.
[00:21:39]  I only need to know a little bit about a subject.
[00:21:41]  More than someone else to prove that I'm a genius.
[00:21:43]  Yeah.
[00:21:44]  So the point is, he starts having real success 10 years off here, five years here, seven years here, 13 years here.
[00:21:50]  And guys are like, it's like, wow, you're doing great.
[00:21:52]  He's doing pretty good, but he's very selective.
[00:21:54]  So what happens is eventually he meets another inmate by the name of Juan Garcia.
[00:22:04]  I love that name too.
[00:22:05]  It's so generic.
[00:22:06]  Is that a pseudonym also or is that a real?
[00:22:08]  That's his real name.
[00:22:08]  Why not use it?
[00:22:09]  Yeah.
[00:22:10]  There's got to be a million of them.
[00:22:12]  In the BOP, there's probably, there's probably.
[00:22:15]  2000 for sure.
[00:22:17]  Um, so he he meets this guy, Juan Garcia, and he starts working on Juan's case.
[00:22:22]  Now here is the.
[00:22:24]  The issue with Juan Garcia is this is that Juan Garcia after, after Chris reviewed all the documents, he came back to him he said, you're time barred.
[00:22:35]  See, once you're sentenced, you only have one year to to file what's called a 2255, which is either there was a a procedural error or your lawyer didn't know what they were doing, or they were ineffective or incompetent.
[00:22:48]  This guy had been locked up like eight years on a 25-year sentence.
[00:22:53]  So he's basically, Chris was like, you're way past the time bar.
[00:22:59]  And the only way to get around that is new evidence.
[00:23:02]  You don't have it.
[00:23:04]  Okay.
[00:23:04]  So there's nothing I can do.
[00:23:06]  And the guy's like, well, okay.
[00:23:08]  So he said eight months to a year goes by.
[00:23:10]  And the guy every once in a while will come to him and say, hey, what about this?
[00:23:13]  He'd be like, no, because of this, that doesn't work.
[00:23:15]  Okay.
[00:23:15]  You know, this happens.
[00:23:17]  Well, Okay, so that's how he met Juan Garcia, Chris.
[00:23:25]  Now, let's go back to the beginning.
[00:23:26]  How did Juan Garcia end up in prison?
[00:23:29]  This is the better way.
[00:23:30]  Okay.
[00:23:31]  So now let's go back.
[00:23:32]  Juan Garcia started, he was a drug distributor for the Sinaloa cartel.
[00:23:39]  All right.
[00:23:41]  Now, he ended up in that position because his sister married Nacho's niece or nephew.
[00:23:50]  Niece's, his nephew's kid, or something.
[00:23:52]  Somehow or other, he's connected to Nacho, which is the head of the Citadel Cartel, through marriage of some kind.
[00:24:00]  And so, what they did was they came to him and they said, Look, man, you want to make some money?
[00:24:04]  Go buy a couple of trucks and we'll load the trucks up with cars and we'll put compartments in the cars.
[00:24:13]  And then you can drive, you can deliver those vehicles to Chicago.
[00:24:19]  You're talking about like semi trucks.
[00:24:21]  Right, right, exactly.
[00:24:22]  A trucking company.
[00:24:23]  So you can deliver them to New York, Chicago.
[00:24:26]  You'll pull up.
[00:24:27]  You'll leave your vehicle in a parking lot.
[00:24:29]  They'll unload it.
[00:24:30]  You come out the next day.
[00:24:31]  The car's gone.
[00:24:31]  You get on the truck and leave.
[00:24:33]  It's really not a bad situation because even if you get pulled over and cops search the vehicles and they find something in the vehicle, the driver can always say, whoa, bro, I just drive the truck.
[00:24:41]  I don't know.
[00:24:42]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:24:43]  It's like, it's pretty good.
[00:24:45]  It's a pretty good concept.
[00:24:47]  So Juan does this and Juan's making a ton of money.
[00:24:52]  But, but Juan's, is he really a drug dealer?
[00:24:56]  If you're, if you talk to a drug dealer who's in like the drug game, this is a guy like, like Chris basically explained.
[00:25:04]  He got into it.
[00:25:05]  He started selling like one pill.
[00:25:06]  He started off with like one pill.
[00:25:08]  He's like, literally, I'm like, that's it.
[00:25:10]  He's like, and built his way all the way up.
[00:25:12]  Now, Juan Garcia started at the top.
[00:25:15]  Buy a truck, hire a driver, boom.
[00:25:18]  You're making $100,000 a week.
[00:25:20]  You're doing great.
[00:25:21]  Guy's making, he's driving a yellow Hummer.
[00:25:24]  I mean, he's doing like, he lives in like a $2 million house.
[00:25:27]  I mean, he's flamboyant.
[00:25:30]  He's throwing big parties.
[00:25:31]  I mean, he's acting exactly like any decent drug dealer wouldn't act.
[00:25:34]  Yeah.
[00:25:35]  Not anybody with longevity.
[00:25:37]  So he's, um, So he's doing great.
[00:25:40]  Well, here's what happens.
[00:25:41]  He's by the guy who gives him all of his drugs.
[00:25:44]  I'm sorry.
[00:25:44]  Where is he living?
[00:25:45]  He's living in California.
[00:25:46]  Okay.
[00:25:46]  The guy who gives him all of his drugs is a guy named Jose Pada.
[00:25:50]  Okay.
[00:25:52]  Now, Pada is basically like Smith or Brown.
[00:25:56]  There's tons of them.
[00:25:57]  All right.
[00:25:58]  So it's another generic name.
[00:26:00]  So and Jose, another generic name.
[00:26:03]  So but it's, but those are their own names.
[00:26:06]  Matter of fact, you can put Jose Pada, you know, murder.
[00:26:10]  LA murder or California murder, whatever.
[00:26:12]  There's a bunch of articles.
[00:26:14]  So what happens is Juan, Jose Pada is giving the drugs to Juan.
[00:26:21]  Juan's loading up the vehicles, putting them on the car movers, whatever, the semis.
[00:26:25]  They're going back and forth.
[00:26:26]  This is working out great.
[00:26:27]  Goes on for a few years.
[00:26:29]  Ultimately, what happens is one day, one of his trucks gets pulled over and a bunch of drugs, I'm not sure if it was drugs or money, gets seized.
[00:26:39]  And I mean like $1.5 million worth of drugs or money.
[00:26:42]  Gets seized, they get pulled over.
[00:26:44]  Now his drivers had been pulled over before, by the way, vehicles had been searched, never found them.
[00:26:51]  This one got pulled over.
[00:26:52]  I remember it was a Mishubishi.
[00:26:54]  The cop goes straight to the Mishubishi, opens it up, goes straight to the, to the, to the hidden compartment, boom.
[00:27:00]  Opens it up.
[00:27:00]  Bam, got it, knew where it was, knew where it was.
[00:27:02]  Somebody told him, yeah, no doubt somebody told him this.
[00:27:05]  This isn't a fluke.
[00:27:06]  So they take the whole Mishubishi, they call the DEA.
[00:27:09]  Dea shows up, they take the whole Mishubishi.
[00:27:12]  Dea goes to the driver and says here's my business card.
[00:27:17]  If the owner of the Mitsubishi wants to talk to him, have him call me.
[00:27:21]  Okay, now I'm simplifying this.
[00:27:23]  There's a whole bunch of other stuff that's happening, but that's the crux of the problem.
[00:27:28]  In the meantime, by the way, another shipment gets seized.
[00:27:33]  So now what happens to the driver?
[00:27:35]  Nothing.
[00:27:36]  I'm just a driver.
[00:27:37]  I drive the truck.
[00:27:37]  So they took all the cocaine out of the truck?
[00:27:40]  No, no, they just took, it wasn't a truck, it was a Mitsubishi.
[00:27:43]  It was just as a car hauler.
[00:27:44]  Like all the different cars are on the truck.
[00:27:46]  Yeah, I know what you mean.
[00:27:47]  So they take, The Mishubishi.
[00:27:49]  It was just a car, a Mishubishi, whatever.
[00:27:50]  Just one of the cars.
[00:27:51]  Yeah, they take the whole car.
[00:27:53]  You're talking about the truck pulling the cars or just a car off the trailer?
[00:27:57]  A car that was on the truck.
[00:27:58]  Yeah, a car on the trailer.
[00:27:59]  Okay, okay.
[00:28:00]  And they took one car and gave the driver a business card.
[00:28:03]  A business card.
[00:28:04]  Because he's saying, I don't know nothing about it.
[00:28:06]  So these guys knew that Coke was in that one car.
[00:28:08]  Right.
[00:28:09]  They knew right where it was.
[00:28:09]  Right where it was.
[00:28:10]  Went straight to the thing.
[00:28:11]  They didn't even say that to the driver?
[00:28:12]  Yeah, they told him he's sitting there watching.
[00:28:14]  Wow.
[00:28:15]  And they didn't say anything other than, Look, they're like, who's Mishubishi?
[00:28:18]  I don't know.
[00:28:19]  It was just loaded on it.
[00:28:20]  I drive for this trucking company.
[00:28:22]  That's all I know.
[00:28:24]  Okay.
[00:28:24]  Well, if the guy with the Mishibishi wants it, here's my card.
[00:28:28]  Walks and leaves.
[00:28:29]  He's like, okay.
[00:28:30]  He calls Juan.
[00:28:32]  Juan says, you know, he tells him, hey, listen, oh my God, you know, the guy that, yeah, yeah.
[00:28:38]  He tells him the whole thing.
[00:28:39]  Here's what happened.
[00:28:41]  Okay.
[00:28:43]  Turns out that that was the story.
[00:28:45]  Turns out what.
[00:28:47]  You can move it if you want.
[00:28:47]  You can angle it.
[00:28:49]  No, I keep hitting it because I talk with my hands.
[00:28:51]  It's ridiculous.
[00:28:52]  I can't stop.
[00:28:53]  Don't worry about it.
[00:28:53]  Talk.
[00:28:55]  What ends up happening is.
[00:28:58]  They wired the phone of the driver.
[00:29:02]  So they got a wire.
[00:29:03]  a wire.
[00:29:03]  I don't know if you know how a wire works, but it's not hard to get a wire, especially if you just found drugs on the guy.
[00:29:09]  You mean like tapped the phone?
[00:29:10]  They tap the phone.
[00:29:11]  They have a wire tap, a court ordered wire tap.
[00:29:13]  Okay.
[00:29:14]  Well, anybody he calls that they basically say, we believe he's a part of the conspiracy, boom, wire.
[00:29:21]  So now he picks the phone, calls Juan, hey, there's an issue.
[00:29:24]  I was pulled over.
[00:29:25]  There was a problem.
[00:29:26]  They took one of the vehicles.
[00:29:27]  Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.
[00:29:30]  I know.
[00:29:30]  He gave me a business card.

=== Wires, Confessions, And Charges (15:40) ===

[00:29:31]  I'll give it to you.
[00:29:31]  Okay, I'll see you then.
[00:29:32]  Okay, he hangs up the phone.
[00:29:34]  Juan then calls multiple other people.
[00:29:37]  One of the guys he calls is a guy named Kuko, which is one of his partners.
[00:29:41]  He calls up and Kuko's and he's like, You know, the guy, they took the guy, the guy, the guy with the money, the guy with the money.
[00:29:47]  And he's like, He's saying all this on the phone.
[00:29:49]  That's all I know because I have the transcripts of him basically just calling up and bearing.
[00:29:57]  He calls all these guys and they all get wiretaps immediately on those guys.
[00:30:03]  Oh my God.
[00:30:03]  There's actually a DEA.
[00:30:04]  This is $8,500 per kilo.
[00:30:08]  This is all cocaine kilos.
[00:30:09]  Anyway, $8,500 per kilo.
[00:30:12]  Yeah, like on one side of the border.
[00:30:14]  Okay.
[00:30:14]  And then as soon as it gets here, it jumped to like 11.
[00:30:17]  Right.
[00:30:17]  Or was it 17?
[00:30:18]  I don't know.
[00:30:19]  Probably 17.
[00:30:20]  Right.
[00:30:22]  And then it changes as it goes up to like New York.
[00:30:24]  Yeah.
[00:30:25]  Okay.
[00:30:26]  So what happens is this.
[00:30:27]  So there was another seizure too.
[00:30:29]  In the meantime, there's another seizure.
[00:30:31]  So he now owes, and I don't know, it's like 2.3 or 2.5.
[00:30:34]  I'm going to go with 2.5.
[00:30:37]  Juan now owes $2.5 million to the Sinaloa cartel.
[00:30:44]  So what he does is he ends up going to Mexico.
[00:30:51]  The Sinaloa cartel in general, they don't like losses, but they understand they happen.
[00:30:57]  Yeah, right.
[00:30:58]  And if you can provide, so you think, oh, I owe him $2.5 million.
[00:31:01]  They're going to kill me.
[00:31:02]  Well, not if you can prove, you know, not if you can prove, look, this is what happened and I'm going to pay you back.
[00:31:07]  You're responsible.
[00:31:08]  You have to pay them back, but they'll let you pay them back.
[00:31:10]  They're not just going to whack you immediately.
[00:31:12]  So these guys actually go to Mexico and they meet with Nacho.
[00:31:20]  Okay.
[00:31:21]  They meet with Nacho.
[00:31:22]  They meet with Jose Pada and they meet with a guy named G. His name is, I have it written down here, but it's too complicated.
[00:31:31]  Yeah.
[00:31:31]  It's Germano Olivares or whatever.
[00:31:34]  But you don't have to have the whole name.
[00:31:35]  Yeah.
[00:31:35]  Yeah.
[00:31:35]  Exactly.
[00:31:36]  G.
[00:31:36]  So I don't want you to say the whole name.
[00:31:38]  Yeah.
[00:31:39]  Keep going.
[00:31:40]  They're all on the indictments.
[00:31:41]  I got the indictments.
[00:31:44]  So he's there.
[00:31:45]  And so they basically, Juan shows up with Kuko and another guy.
[00:31:49]  I'm not going to say his name.
[00:31:50]  It's just too many characters.
[00:31:51]  But the point is they show up and they go.
[00:31:54]  You owe us $2.5 million.
[00:31:56]  He's like, yeah, I know.
[00:31:57]  Well, here's what happened.
[00:31:58]  He's like, you owe us $2.5 million.
[00:32:00]  You don't have a seizure.
[00:32:02]  There was no arrest.
[00:32:03]  You just lost $2.5 million.
[00:32:06]  You're basically just coming to me saying, hey, you know the $2.5 million?
[00:32:09]  Yeah, it's gone.
[00:32:10]  Right.
[00:32:11]  Here's the business card.
[00:32:12]  If he stole it, he probably wouldn't have done that, though.
[00:32:14]  Right.
[00:32:14]  And that was their argument because they're saying, you gave me a business card.
[00:32:18]  Right.
[00:32:18]  Why would I come to you like this if I just was stealing it from you?
[00:32:20]  Right.
[00:32:20]  Well, it'd be different.
[00:32:21]  Like if there were arrests, these guys can have their lawyers find out, hey, there were four arrests.
[00:32:26]  Right.
[00:32:27]  There were seizures.
[00:32:27]  Then it's like, okay, clearly he didn't take the money.
[00:32:29]  The money, the government has the money.
[00:32:30]  The cops knew that.
[00:32:31]  Was it the DEA?
[00:32:32]  Probably.
[00:32:33]  Yeah, it was DEA.
[00:32:34]  Then they knew that.
[00:32:34]  So they knew.
[00:32:35]  Right.
[00:32:35]  But he doesn't have any proof of that.
[00:32:37]  All you've got is a business card.
[00:32:38]  Right.
[00:32:39]  What I'm saying is the DEA knew if they didn't arrest them, they wouldn't be able to go back to, you know what I'm saying?
[00:32:45]  Well, the driver problem.
[00:32:46]  Right.
[00:32:47]  No, I agree.
[00:32:48]  But also, you kind of have to make the argument too that's like, why would they arrest a driver?
[00:32:52]  Because the driver has a viable defense.
[00:32:55]  I'm just a driver.
[00:32:56]  Yeah.
[00:32:57]  You know, you can't necessarily arrest me for.
[00:33:00]  I'm not, not only is it not on my truck, it's not my cab.
[00:33:03]  It's actually not even on the truck.
[00:33:05]  It's in a vehicle that was on the truck that I didn't load.
[00:33:08]  So it's like, yeah, he's going to get out of this immediately.
[00:33:10]  Yeah.
[00:33:12]  So what happens is Pada and Jose Pada ends up saying, you know, well, you owe us the money.
[00:33:20]  And of course, Cuco and says, look, we're going to pay you back.
[00:33:24]  He's, I'm going to sign over, you know, we can't explain it.
[00:33:27]  I know it doesn't make sense, but we're going to pay you back.
[00:33:29]  We wouldn't have come in here to Mexico and come here.
[00:33:32]  If we just ripped you off for $2.5 million, you just wouldn't find it.
[00:33:35]  We try and get away.
[00:33:36]  We're here saying, look, we're going to pay you back.
[00:33:37]  Kuko immediately signs over his ranch.
[00:33:40]  They scrape together all the money they can and they pay them back.
[00:33:43]  They pay them back the $2.5 million.
[00:33:45]  Right.
[00:33:45]  They pay them all.
[00:33:46]  It takes a few weeks to obviously, you know, you've got drugs out there.
[00:33:49]  They couldn't just say, like, we'll do another one for free.
[00:33:51]  They couldn't.
[00:33:52]  Nice.
[00:33:52]  It's not worth something else.
[00:33:53]  It's not like $100,000 here, $100,000.
[00:33:54]  Well, these guys are terrified.
[00:33:56]  Yeah.
[00:33:57]  I mean, I'm going to do everything.
[00:33:57]  Right.
[00:33:58]  They're trying to put the money together now.
[00:33:59]  Right.
[00:33:59]  Now, let's get it now.
[00:34:00]  We don't want to get on the ground.
[00:34:02]  We're going to get on payment for it.
[00:34:03]  Right.
[00:34:03]  Yeah, what happens if you try to say, hey, I'll do another run for free, and then you get stopped again?
[00:34:07]  Yeah, right.
[00:34:08]  Then you're really fucked.
[00:34:09]  Right.
[00:34:09]  And then they come and they just kill your family and everything.
[00:34:11]  You know, it's no good.
[00:34:12]  So what ends up happening is they go back, they scrape together all the money, and I remember Chris told me that Juan told him that when they had all the money together and they were actually going to deliver it to Pada, Kuko actually said, you know, we're going to kill this motherfucker.
[00:34:30]  At some point, we need to kill this guy.
[00:34:33]  Because there was an argument.
[00:34:35]  They didn't mind paying back.
[00:34:37]  But Kuko and Juan Garcia were calling Pada and saying, listen, please do us a favor.
[00:34:47]  This is like everything we have.
[00:34:50]  I'm asking you to let us pay you back, but let us not pay you back the American price.
[00:34:55]  Let us pay you back the Jalisco price, okay?
[00:34:59]  Which was $4,000 or $5,000.
[00:35:01]  Which was his cost.
[00:35:02]  Right, right, exactly, per kilo.
[00:35:04]  So it ends up being that's like a million dollars less or $800,000, whatever it was.
[00:35:08]  It was hundreds of thousands of dollars less.
[00:35:10]  Do us a favor.
[00:35:12]  Right.
[00:35:12]  And he said, no, no, I can't do that.
[00:35:14]  No.
[00:35:14]  I actually have the transcripts where he's saying no.
[00:35:17]  I remember his exact words were, can't be done.
[00:35:20]  Nope, can't be done.
[00:35:22]  And he's like, this is everything I've got.
[00:35:24]  And he's like, eh, can't be done.
[00:35:25]  Tough.
[00:35:26]  So he's like, you know, you'll make it back.
[00:35:29]  But think if you've been dealing in drugs for a couple of years now and that's everything you've got, you just had to hand it all over, that's devastating.
[00:35:36]  It doesn't seem devastating if you work at Walmart, but it seems devastating at the level that this guy and the risks he was taking.
[00:35:42]  I mean, keep in mind, he gets caught.
[00:35:43]  He's done.
[00:35:43]  He gets 25 years.
[00:35:44]  Right.
[00:35:45]  So he hands over all the money, and these guys are basically saying at some point, we're going to kill this dude.
[00:35:50]  Because this guy, Pata, was not like Pata.
[00:35:53]  They were going to kill Pata?
[00:35:54]  Yeah.
[00:35:54]  Well, they were just saying, if it ever comes up and we have an opportunity, I'm going to kill him.
[00:35:57]  That's what Kuka was saying.
[00:35:59]  I'll just kill this guy.
[00:36:00]  So why did he think he could kill him so easily?
[00:36:03]  I don't know.
[00:36:04]  He's just furious that people talk shit.
[00:36:05]  I don't know.
[00:36:07]  I just thought it was interesting that that was something he specifically said.
[00:36:10]  Yeah.
[00:36:10]  He didn't.
[00:36:11]  I don't know that he did kill him, but they obviously knew that Pata was like higher than him and then they were in the cartel.
[00:36:19]  Right.
[00:36:19]  Right, but you got to hear how it kind of ends up.
[00:36:22]  So what ends up happening is a few weeks later, maybe a month later, he gets, Juan Garcia gets arrested.
[00:36:34]  So he gets arrested on a conspiracy, right?
[00:36:38]  Which part of the conspiracy is the vehicle.
[00:36:40]  Juan is the truck driver?
[00:36:41]  No, no.
[00:36:41]  Juan.
[00:36:42]  He's the guy running the truck company.
[00:36:43]  Yeah, he's the guy who bought the trucks.
[00:36:45]  Right.
[00:36:45]  And keep in mind, too, Juan, he's the one who married into the cartel.
[00:36:48]  He's the little guy that owns all the trucks.
[00:36:50]  He's actually a little guy.
[00:36:51]  He's like 5'1, 5'2.
[00:36:53]  Chris was like, he was tiny.
[00:36:54]  Wow.
[00:36:55]  He's tiny and he looks like a little Oompa Loompa.
[00:36:57]  He's always waving his arms.
[00:36:58]  Shorter than you are.
[00:36:58]  Shorter than me.
[00:37:00]  How old are you?
[00:37:00]  You're 5'5", right?
[00:37:03]  I'm 5'6.
[00:37:03]  I'm 5'7", with a good pair of shoes.
[00:37:05]  Nice.
[00:37:06]  It really hurts me.
[00:37:08]  Okay.
[00:37:12]  Anyway, so what happens is this.
[00:37:16]  He gets arrested, and during the course of him trying to fight his case, he starts meeting a couple other guys that he knows in prison.
[00:37:29]  While Juan's in prison, he meets like, hey, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were arrested like six months ago.
[00:37:34]  Because you've got to think in that high of a game, you know, guys, and they're getting popped every once in a while.
[00:37:38]  He's meeting some guy, and the guy's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, man, I got arrested.
[00:37:42]  He's like, oh, I took a plea or whatever.
[00:37:44]  He's like, oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:37:45]  And this other guy says to him, what happened?
[00:37:49]  And he's like, oh, and Juan tells him kind of what happened.
[00:37:52]  And he says, it's funny.
[00:37:54]  He said, you're dealing with Potatoo?
[00:37:55]  And he goes, yeah, he goes, yeah, I was dealing with him.
[00:37:56]  He goes, I actually got pulled over.
[00:37:59]  Took a bunch of drugs, met him.
[00:38:01]  He handed over whatever, 50 kilos or 100 kilos.
[00:38:04]  These guys are moving 500 kilos.
[00:38:06]  This is not a thousand kilos.
[00:38:08]  I mean, wait till you see the notes.
[00:38:10]  You know, 250 kilos.
[00:38:12]  So this guy got like 100 kilos or something and right down the street got pulled over and arrested after just meeting with Pada.
[00:38:18]  He knows another guy got arrested just after getting something from Pada.
[00:38:23]  They meet another guy, got arrested just after.
[00:38:26]  Like there's all these guys that Pada is connected to.
[00:38:29]  That are getting popped.
[00:38:30]  That are getting popped.
[00:38:30]  So Juan immediately starts thinking something's not right.
[00:38:33]  Well, then one of his co-defendants was cooperating.
[00:38:40]  He had actually done a DEA 6 where he said he believes Jose Pada was an informant, right?
[00:38:50]  So when Juan goes to meet his lawyer and he tells him, man, I don't know, all these guys are saying Pada, Pada, you know, well, Pada, Pada, but it couldn't be Pada.
[00:39:00]  It couldn't be Pada.
[00:39:01]  His lawyer says, I've got a DEA 6 right here where it set, where it says that he's a ci or he's a, he's a confidential informant, he and he's like what.
[00:39:13]  Like he really doesn't believe it.
[00:39:14]  But his lawyer shows him the thing, but it wasn't actually a document that proved it.
[00:39:19]  It was just saying that this guy said it right.
[00:39:21]  But because it was on an official document and it appeared that he was a ci right, and the other guy was saying he's a ci, that was what that that document really solidified it for Juan.
[00:39:32]  Juan was like, he's a ci.
[00:39:33]  It says it right here on Dea6.
[00:39:35]  No, the d, it's just an interview where you're saying it.
[00:39:38]  You're just saying it, Right.
[00:39:39]  You're just some guy saying, oh, yeah, he's a CI.
[00:39:41]  Oh, Pada CI.
[00:39:43]  Well, they don't know who Pada is.
[00:39:45]  So it just says Pada is a CI.
[00:39:47]  It doesn't mean he's a CI.
[00:39:49]  It just means you think it.
[00:39:50]  Right.
[00:39:50]  You're just some inmate or some defendant.
[00:39:53]  Anyway, because it said it, he believed it.
[00:39:56]  And his lawyer is saying, yeah, I know.
[00:39:57]  I think it is too.
[00:39:58]  I think he is too.
[00:39:58]  And other people are saying that's it.
[00:40:00]  In his mind, he's like, that's he's a CI.
[00:40:02]  So they put together a whole motion where it says that because they were using Pada, they didn't have a right.
[00:40:09]  Because Pada was working as a CI, they didn't have a right to get a warrant.
[00:40:13]  Why would you get a warrant when you have a CI inside the organization?
[00:40:15]  You don't need the warrant.
[00:40:16]  You don't have justification for the warrant.
[00:40:18]  Now, that's an argument that works sometimes.
[00:40:21]  But what ends up happening is when they finally get a hearing and they get in front of the judge, the government comes forward and says, we don't know who Jose Pata is.
[00:40:31]  We don't even know who, we don't, we've never even heard that name.
[00:40:34]  Like, what are you talking about?
[00:40:35]  He's not a CI.
[00:40:36]  We don't know what you're talking about.
[00:40:37]  And Juan is saying, no, you're protecting him.
[00:40:40]  And the lawyer is saying, no, they're protecting him.
[00:40:42]  And they're saying, we're not going to lie to the court.
[00:40:45]  It's not true.
[00:40:45]  We don't even know who this person is.
[00:40:48]  So what happens is Juan, they lose the motion.
[00:40:51]  Juan's looking at life in prison.
[00:40:52]  They offer him 25 years.
[00:40:54]  They're saying, you're the leader.
[00:40:56]  He's saying Jose Pata is the leader, not me.
[00:41:00]  And they say, well, leader of what?
[00:41:02]  He's his boss.
[00:41:03]  He's the king there.
[00:41:04]  He's above me.
[00:41:05]  They're saying, no, you're running the show.
[00:41:07]  You're the one getting the shipments.
[00:41:08]  You're distributing it.
[00:41:09]  He's saying, no, I'm just a guy that owns the trucks.
[00:41:13]  I don't get it from Mexico.
[00:41:15]  So you're not really, you're not the top dog because trust me, the leadership role, you get extra.
[00:41:20]  You get hit with extra levels.
[00:41:22]  Isn't that called the kingpin or something?
[00:41:25]  What is that term, the kingpin?
[00:41:26]  Yeah, kingpin.
[00:41:27]  Yeah.
[00:41:28]  But here's the thing in the federal system, there's really guys call it the kingpin.
[00:41:32]  It's basically it's a leader organizer or you're a continuing criminal enterprise.
[00:41:41]  And people say it's a kingpin.
[00:41:42]  And kingpins, when you get the kingpin charge, you automatically get life, right?
[00:41:47]  No, not necessarily.
[00:41:48]  It's every state.
[00:41:49]  Most states actually will have an actual where it'll actually say you can get charged with being a kingpin.
[00:41:55]  Because in a podcast.
[00:41:56]  In the feds, you don't really get a kingpin charge.
[00:41:58]  The inmates call, oh, that's a kingpin charge.
[00:42:01]  But they actually have it written in a statute where it's like, this is a kingpin charge.
[00:42:06]  I just did a podcast with this lady whose son got the kingpin.
[00:42:10]  They offered him a really low plea where he could take 10 years or something like that.
[00:42:14]  And he fought the government on it.
[00:42:16]  And they said he was a kingpin.
[00:42:17]  He basically just started Silk Road, the underground marketplace for whatever.
[00:42:23]  And he fought it.
[00:42:24]  He didn't take the plea deal.
[00:42:26]  And they somehow got him with a kingpin charge, even though he was not moving any drugs.
[00:42:31]  He never sold any drugs.
[00:42:33]  They tried to make up this story where he actually did a murder for hire, but he did not.
[00:42:40]  That's not even true.
[00:42:41]  And they somehow were able to pin him with the king pin charge, and he went directly to, and this is a 26-year-old.
[00:42:50]  At the time, he was 26.
[00:42:52]  No, dreaded pirate Roberts.
[00:42:54]  Yeah, dreaded pirate Roberts.
[00:42:56]  That was his handle.
[00:42:58]  And he had no criminal history, never had been arrested.
[00:43:01]  26 years old.
[00:43:02]  They got him with the king pin charge and sent him directly to the car.
[00:43:05]  the Colorado maximum security prison that El Chapo is in right now.
[00:43:10]  Underground.
[00:43:10]  He has a double life sentence.
[00:43:12]  Yeah.
[00:43:13]  Double.
[00:43:13]  He's done.
[00:43:14]  And El Chapo only has one life sentence.
[00:43:16]  So he technically has double the sentence of El Chapo.
[00:43:19]  Yeah.
[00:43:19]  Well, it's going to be hard to do that second life sentence.
[00:43:23]  But a little bit, yeah.
[00:43:24]  Yeah.
[00:43:24]  Well, I mean, basically that's like you're the ringleader.
[00:43:28]  It's a continuing criminal enterprise and you're the top person in a continuing criminal enterprise.
[00:43:38]  basically be the kingpin.
[00:43:39]  Just dummy.
[00:43:41]  God.
[00:43:42]  But a lot of guys, a lot of guys will say like anybody who's basically the leader organizer in a conspiracy is the kingpin.
[00:43:52]  Like if it has drugs involved, usually they'll say that's the kingpin.
[00:43:55]  But technically, there is no technical kingpin charge.
[00:44:00]  Like in the state, they actually have charges called kingpin.
[00:44:03]  Right.
[00:44:03]  Charging him with statute such and such, such the kingpin charge.
[00:44:06]  Yeah.
[00:44:08]  Anyway, that's your, that's, we totally got off topic.
[00:44:11]  Point is, is yeah.
[00:44:12]  He, um, they charged him with being the leader organizer, and he's saying, I'm not.
[00:44:16]  I'm just a dry.
[00:44:17]  I just own some trucks.
[00:44:18]  I'm just a driver, basically.
[00:44:19]  I'm just a driver.
[00:44:19]  I just transport.
[00:44:21]  Yeah.
[00:44:21]  I'm not the distributor.
[00:44:22]  I'm just a transporter.
[00:44:24]  And so they, but the difference is 10 years.
[00:44:29]  So instead of getting, being able to plead guilty to 15 years, he pled guilty.
[00:44:33]  He had to take 25.
[00:44:36]  The judge didn't believe him.
[00:44:36]  He's like, I don't believe you.
[00:44:37]  Because, because when the government stands up, they, they stood up and said, Your Honor, there, there is, there are two.
[00:44:45]  They're the kingpins in this case is Juan Garcia and his co defendant.
[00:44:49]  Those are the kingpins.
[00:44:50]  They keep talking about Jose Pata.
[00:44:52]  There's no Jose Pata.
[00:44:53]  They don't know who Jose Pata is.
[00:44:55]  Is.
[00:44:55]  They keep talking about it and there isn't.
[00:44:57]  We don't know who that is.
[00:44:58]  So, what ends up happening is he gets 25 years.
[00:45:02]  So, he goes to prison.
[00:45:04]  He goes to prison.
[00:45:05]  He does eight years.
[00:45:06]  And eight years later, he meets Chris Silva, the jailhouse lawyer that has a great reputation.

=== The Nonexistent Jose Pata (14:48) ===

[00:45:12]  Who you became friends with?
[00:45:14]  Yes.
[00:45:15]  Juan goes to Chris.
[00:45:17]  He shows him his paperwork.
[00:45:18]  He says, You're time barred.
[00:45:19]  That's it.
[00:45:20]  Maybe a year later, he comes back and he says, Juan comes to Chris and he says, Listen, I just found out.
[00:45:29]  That one of my co defendants, when he went to trial, the DEA got on the stand and the DEA agent said that the money or the he got on the stand and he said that the person supplying all the drugs was a guy named Jose Pada.
[00:45:48]  And he said, but when I was sentenced, the government denied there was a Jose Pada.
[00:45:53]  So Chris went, well, you might have something there because you can't, the government cannot take two inconsistent. positions.
[00:46:04]  You see what I'm saying?
[00:46:05]  You can't argue.
[00:46:06]  You can't play both sides.
[00:46:07]  So you didn't know about them, but then you weren't talking about them in another court.
[00:46:11]  I mean, you can, but you need to go back and correct that.
[00:46:13]  And that's something that's questionably a new fact.
[00:46:16]  Could be a new fact.
[00:46:17]  Yeah.
[00:46:19]  So what he does is Chris says, well, you know what?
[00:46:22]  He says, yeah, let's order the transcripts.
[00:46:23]  So they order the transcripts.
[00:46:24]  That's going to take a few months to get the transcripts.
[00:46:27]  And they order them and they pay for them.
[00:46:28]  And Juan's sister buys them or whatever.
[00:46:32]  So while they're waiting, While they're waiting and Chris is getting stuff mailed in, Juan comes to him and says, you know, so what about, he's going back and forth.
[00:46:55]  He's like, yeah, that guy, he's telling him Jose Pata is a snitch.
[00:46:59]  And he's like, well, let's see.
[00:47:00]  So they get the paperwork in and they file some paperwork.
[00:47:05]  They file the motion.
[00:47:06]  And the motion comes back.
[00:47:07]  I'm pretty sure this is the way it lays out.
[00:47:09]  I could be off a little bit, but pretty sure the motion lays out and they file the motion and the government immediately denies that he's an informant.
[00:47:20]  We don't know who this person is.
[00:47:22]  Well, what ends up happening is he ends up saying to Juan, well, there's an issue.
[00:47:32]  If they keep denying this, they can always deny that it's the same Jose Pada or it's a different one or it's just, who knows what they're going to do.
[00:47:42]  that U.S. attorneys are very good at manipulating the facts without technically breaking the law.
[00:47:49]  They'll omit things or, Your Honor, I didn't know that.
[00:47:52]  Or they'll switch prosecutors and then this prosecutor can say, I didn't realize that.
[00:47:56]  Oh, I wasn't here.
[00:47:57]  I just got assigned.
[00:47:59]  So they're very good at that.
[00:48:00]  So he ends up saying, we need to be able to prove that Jose Pada exists.
[00:48:05]  And he's like, and we can't prove that.
[00:48:07]  And he's like, well, what are you talking about?
[00:48:08]  They said he exists.
[00:48:09]  He said, no, no, it doesn't matter.
[00:48:10]  We need to prove that he actually exists.
[00:48:13]  And this guy, he never says Pada like he says Jose.
[00:48:15]  They were getting their drugs from Jose.
[00:48:16]  He didn't really say pot or whatever.
[00:48:18]  So it's all questionable.
[00:48:20]  So he's like, we really need to figure out how we can prove he exists.
[00:48:24]  And he's like, okay.
[00:48:25]  He's like, well, let's think about that.
[00:48:26]  If you know somebody who knows him or knows somebody, let's try and figure out.
[00:48:29]  Because they're not trying to get him in trouble.
[00:48:30]  They're just trying to prove that he is a real person.
[00:48:33]  Yeah.
[00:48:33]  Well, what ends up happening is time goes by.
[00:48:37]  It's not really a new fact unless we can prove.
[00:48:41]  No reason to file paperwork unless we can prove it.
[00:48:43]  And one day, Chris is watching TV or he's in his unit, and Juan comes in and goes, Come here, let me talk to you.
[00:48:50]  And he walks over.
[00:48:50]  He's like, What's up?
[00:48:51]  He goes, What if Jose Pada was dead?
[00:48:55]  And he goes, What do you mean?
[00:48:56]  He goes, What if he was dead?
[00:48:58]  He goes, Dead how?
[00:48:59]  Dead like two bullets in the back of the head, dead?
[00:49:02]  Or dead like he got hit by a car?
[00:49:03]  He goes, Dead like two bullets in the back of the head.
[00:49:07]  He goes, Let's talk outside.
[00:49:08]  They walk outside.
[00:49:08]  He goes, Did you have anything to do with it?
[00:49:10]  He goes, Absolutely not.
[00:49:10]  Do you know anybody that had it?
[00:49:11]  No.
[00:49:12]  Did your co-defendant?
[00:49:12]  No.
[00:49:13]  He goes, I just heard.
[00:49:15]  Like my sister or somebody in visitation came today and she told me that he was dead.
[00:49:21]  I just heard he was dead.
[00:49:22]  And he goes, Well, if he's dead, we can probably, that would be good.
[00:49:28]  We can show the newspaper articles.
[00:49:31]  Okay, cool.
[00:49:31]  So, Chris orders the newspaper.
[00:49:33]  Sure enough, he was dead.
[00:49:36]  He and his wife, Jose Pata, and his wife and two kids came home one night, pull into the car in an affluent neighborhood in a bedroom community like a suburb of Los Angeles.
[00:49:48]  It's called Arcadia and it's a really house worth a few million dollars.
[00:49:53]  He pulls in, closes the garage.
[00:49:58]  There's a cartel assassin is inside the garage already.
[00:50:02]  He had pushed through the door.
[00:50:03]  He's sitting in there.
[00:50:05]  They pull up, boom, guy pulls out a gun.
[00:50:07]  Come on, come in, walks them both all inside, tells Jose Pada, you know, this is about the money.
[00:50:14]  You got the money.
[00:50:14]  Where's the money?
[00:50:15]  All the money you lost.
[00:50:16]  He's like, I didn't lose any money.
[00:50:17]  You know you owe that money.
[00:50:17]  I don't have any money.
[00:50:18]  I didn't take any money.
[00:50:19]  It has nothing to do with me.
[00:50:20]  And he puts him on his knees and shoots him in the fucking head.
[00:50:24]  Fuck.
[00:50:26]  Right.
[00:50:27]  Wife and two kids are there, right?
[00:50:29]  I think they're in a bedroom, an adjacent bedroom.
[00:50:31]  It doesn't matter.
[00:50:32]  You know, daddy just got shot in the fucking head when you walk out the door.
[00:50:35]  Daddy's laying in a pool of blood.
[00:50:37]  So he's sitting there begging for his life in front of his wife and kids.
[00:50:41]  He gets shot.
[00:50:41]  He's dead.
[00:50:42]  Okay.
[00:50:43]  They disappear.
[00:50:44]  There's a newspaper article.
[00:50:46]  Chris gets the newspaper article mailed into prison.
[00:50:49]  Newspaper article comes in.
[00:50:51]  Well, SIS, which is the special investigative services inside of all federal bureaus of prisons, have a division in each prison.
[00:51:00]  So they catch it coming in.
[00:51:02]  They catch the article.
[00:51:02]  They call him in.
[00:51:04]  They say, What is this about?
[00:51:05]  He says, I'm doing legal work for this guy, the guy involved in this case.
[00:51:08]  He explains what happened.
[00:51:10]  And they go, Okay, so this murder has nothing to do with you.
[00:51:13]  He said, No, no, no, no.
[00:51:13]  It has nothing to do with me.
[00:51:15]  It's just, Okay.
[00:51:16]  So they give him the articles.
[00:51:17]  No problem.
[00:51:18]  So he's got the articles.
[00:51:20]  He looks it over.
[00:51:21]  Well, when they give him the articles, they say to him, Hey, I got a question for you.
[00:51:26]  Jose Pada.
[00:51:27]  How are you going to prove it's the same Jose Pada?
[00:51:30]  He goes, what do you mean?
[00:51:31]  He says that to him.
[00:51:33]  I think it's either the lieutenant, the SIS lieutenant, I think.
[00:51:35]  He says, how are you going to prove it's the same guy?
[00:51:37]  He goes, I mean, that might as well be like John Brown or Frank Smith.
[00:51:42]  It's a pretty common name, pretty common in Mexico.
[00:51:45]  For sure.
[00:51:46]  And he goes, God, yeah, you're right.
[00:51:48]  I don't know.
[00:51:49]  I'll figure that out.
[00:51:50]  Goes to Juan, tells Juan, how are we going to prove it's the same guy?
[00:51:54]  This guy could just be some guy who works at walmart for all we know.
[00:51:57]  Give you just an average Joe who has the same name.
[00:52:00]  And he's like, he goes, you need to be able to ID him.
[00:52:02]  And there's no picture.
[00:52:04]  And he's like, okay.
[00:52:05]  So Chris says, you know what we need to do?
[00:52:08]  Let's call the homicide.
[00:52:09]  I'll write a letter for you to the homicide detective saying we have information.
[00:52:14]  You used to deal with them.
[00:52:15]  They'll come see you.
[00:52:16]  When they come to see you, they're going to put down a bunch of photos.
[00:52:19]  They're going to have you ID him.
[00:52:20]  Once you ID the right guy, we can call the homicide detective as a witness.
[00:52:26]  He'll say, yeah, no, no, no.
[00:52:28]  He identified him out of a lineup of six or eight pictures.
[00:52:31]  Yeah.
[00:52:32]  Wow.
[00:52:33]  Now, because they weren't sure, because Jose Pata had, you know, these drug dealers, like, they'll own three restaurants and a couple of coin laundromats.
[00:52:41]  Yeah.
[00:52:42]  So they'll look.
[00:52:43]  He said, on paper, Jose Pata looked clean.
[00:52:46]  So, for all you know, the homicide detective doesn't know that he's a drug dealer.
[00:52:49]  So, now how do I prove he's my drug dealer contact?
[00:52:52]  You know, his wife's probably going to be saying, he's not a drug dealer.
[00:52:55]  Right.
[00:52:55]  Do you ever see the movie Traffic?
[00:52:59]  I don't know.
[00:53:01]  They sound super familiar.
[00:53:02]  They arrest this guy in, like, a.
[00:53:04]  whatever her name is, Zeta Jones, whatever, she's married to him.
[00:53:08]  Like she has no idea her husband of like 15 years is this huge drug dealer.
[00:53:13]  He's got businesses.
[00:53:14]  Like they live in a fluent neighborhood.
[00:53:16]  She's clueless.
[00:53:17]  Luckily, Jose Pata's wife wasn't clueless.
[00:53:20]  So when the detective shows up and just like Chris writes the letter, the detective shows up one day.
[00:53:28]  They call Juan Garcia in there.
[00:53:30]  He says, you got your letter.
[00:53:33]  He goes, I want you to, I want to know this is the same guy and that you actually know the guy.
[00:53:37]  I want you to prove to me that you know him.
[00:53:38]  Puts out like nine pictures and he goes, that's him.
[00:53:43]  And he goes, that's Jose Bada.
[00:53:44]  How do you know him?
[00:53:45]  He's like I used to buy drugs from him.
[00:53:46]  And he starts telling him, I used to buy drugs, I used to this, I used to that.
[00:53:49]  And he's like, yeah.
[00:53:50]  He said no we, we know that he was a drug dealer, we know this way.
[00:53:53]  So okay, so good, we're on the same page.
[00:53:56]  Yeah yeah, and he, so he goes, okay.
[00:53:58]  He said so yeah definitely, he's that, and you know him.
[00:54:00]  You yeah drugs, he's okay.
[00:54:01]  Well well how um, who do you think killed him?
[00:54:04]  He's like I, I don't know who killed him.
[00:54:06]  And he says okay.
[00:54:07]  He says well, Why do you think he was killed?
[00:54:10]  Do you have any idea anybody that would want he was come on man?
[00:54:12]  You know why why he was killed He's no no I don't why was he killed?
[00:54:16]  Why do you think he was killed?
[00:54:17]  He's like man.
[00:54:18]  He was a snitch.
[00:54:19]  He worked for you guys.
[00:54:20]  He worked for the government He worked now.
[00:54:21]  He you know, this guy doesn't know any difference between a homicide detective and the federal government.
[00:54:26]  He's like he's like he worked for you.
[00:54:28]  He worked for the government.
[00:54:28]  He's a snitch lots of people wanted him dead shit.
[00:54:31]  Yeah difference between the fucking federal government So he starts saying this well the homicide detective goes No, I've checked he wasn't an informant And so he wasn't an informant.
[00:54:45]  And one is, yeah, he was a snitch.
[00:54:47]  You know, you're just protecting him.
[00:54:48]  He's the reason me and all my co-defendants got fucked up.
[00:54:51]  He's the reason I got 25 years.
[00:54:54]  He stole my money and he got us busted.
[00:54:57]  And he's sitting there going, the homicide detective goes, oh, okay.
[00:55:01]  He goes, you know, couldn't figure out, one, he's not a snitch.
[00:55:04]  And two, I couldn't figure out, he didn't owe anybody money.
[00:55:08]  I couldn't figure out why anybody would want to hurt him.
[00:55:11]  But you sound like you have a motive.
[00:55:13]  Yeah.
[00:55:14]  And he goes, whoop, whoop.
[00:55:17]  No, man, lots of people wanted, he was like, no, I'm telling you he was not an informant.
[00:55:22]  He wasn't.
[00:55:24]  And he's like, you have a, he's like, no, I got to go, man.
[00:55:29]  What?
[00:55:30]  So he's like, yeah, you sound like you're the one who's going to.
[00:55:32]  Well, then why would he be there trying to fucking point him out?
[00:55:35]  Well, right.
[00:55:35]  That's, well, because he thinks he's an informant.
[00:55:38]  He's 100% sure he's an informant, but he's not.
[00:55:41]  Right.
[00:55:42]  But from the homicide detective's point of view.
[00:55:44]  Right.
[00:55:44]  The homicide detective point of view is saying he doesn't know who's going to, he's got nobody who's got a motive, but you just gave me a motive.
[00:55:51]  One, he's not a snitch.
[00:55:53]  But you're saying he is a snitch.
[00:55:54]  You're saying he's the reason.
[00:55:55]  Even if everything you're saying is wrong and he really isn't, I'm right.
[00:56:00]  He's not a snitch.
[00:56:01]  Right.
[00:56:01]  You clearly think he is.
[00:56:03]  And you clearly have a motive.
[00:56:05]  So you think he wants to pin it on Jose now?
[00:56:08]  Well, he's only got one.
[00:56:10]  Yeah, Juan Garcia.
[00:56:11]  He's now thinking Juan Garcia definitely has a motive.
[00:56:15]  Nobody else does.
[00:56:16]  You're the only one who's given me any.
[00:56:21]  Cause.
[00:56:21]  So he leaves.
[00:56:23]  Juan goes and finds Chris and says, Listen, man, this is what happened.
[00:56:26]  I picked him out, just like you said.
[00:56:28]  And he's like, Okay, good, good, good.
[00:56:29]  He goes like, yeah, but it went kind of bad.
[00:56:32]  It went kind of bad.
[00:56:34]  Ah, man, I told him.
[00:56:35]  I told him.
[00:56:35]  He asked me why.
[00:56:37]  I thought he was killed, and I told him.
[00:56:38]  I told him because he's a snitch.
[00:56:39]  He's like, oh, my God, what did you do?
[00:56:42]  You're the only person saying that.
[00:56:44]  The government's denying it.
[00:56:45]  They wouldn't deny it if he was.
[00:56:48]  They would just say he was a CI.
[00:56:50]  He's dead.
[00:56:51]  There's no reason to deny it.
[00:56:53]  They would just say, yeah, the government doesn't care.
[00:56:55]  And he's like, no, no.
[00:56:57]  He said, well, now he said this.
[00:56:59]  He said that.
[00:57:00]  Chris ends up seeing the lieutenant a couple days later, and the lieutenant says, Listen, this guy's asking us to pull all this guy's phone records.
[00:57:09]  He wants to know who he's hanging out with.
[00:57:11]  I'm going to have to tell him you're doing his legal work.
[00:57:14]  And he's like, Oh, man.
[00:57:17]  So Chris goes back and tells Juan, and he's like, Juan, listen to me.
[00:57:21]  I'm fighting my own case.
[00:57:23]  I can't end up in court and have them bring up this murder.
[00:57:27]  You can't put me in a position where the FBI is going to show up and ask me.
[00:57:33]  Do you understand that?
[00:57:34]  Now, he'd had that conversation with him.
[00:57:35]  He's like, are you sure you had nothing to do with this?
[00:57:38]  I had nothing to do with it.
[00:57:39]  Nothing to do with it.
[00:57:40]  Okay.
[00:57:42]  Maybe a month or so later, the lieutenant says, listen, I told him that you were doing his legal work and he wants your records.
[00:57:50]  Now they're doing all kinds of stuff.
[00:57:51]  He's like, he goes back to him.
[00:57:53]  He's like, do you understand what's going to happen?
[00:57:56]  He's like, this is what's happening.
[00:58:00]  They're going to look at all your paperwork, all the things that you're saying.
[00:58:03]  You've given them motive.
[00:58:05]  He's like, so if you used your phone, if you, however, if you had anything to do with this, and he's like, he's like, so just did you?
[00:58:15]  And he's like, yeah, okay, here's what happened.
[00:58:22]  Oh, fuck.
[00:58:23]  First he says, he said, it happened slowly over the course of several months.
[00:58:26]  First he said, I knew they were going to kill him.
[00:58:31]  Like, I didn't order it, but I knew it.
[00:58:33]  You know, he goes, okay, okay.
[00:58:34]  He's like, and so he's like, what should I do?
[00:58:37]  What should I do?
[00:58:37]  And he says, listen, he said, what you should do.
[00:58:40]  Is what you should do is this.
[00:58:45]  You should get in front of this.
[00:58:46]  He's like, I know you don't want to hear this, but what you need to do is you need to go and call a homicide detective and tell them that you know who you think.
[00:59:00]  Give them the information so you don't end up getting charged.
[00:59:02]  He's like, nah, I can't do that.
[00:59:03]  I can't do that.
[00:59:04]  And keep in mind, they only wanted to prove Jose Pata existed because they wanted to be able to go back in front of the judge to say, look, I wasn't the I wasn't the leader organizer and get that one enhancement taken off.
[00:59:16]  So he would go from 25 years to 15 years.
[00:59:18]  He would have been out within 15 years.
[00:59:19]  But now he's got a murder conspiracy.
[00:59:20]  Now he may end up not only just doing your 25, you may have a murder charge.
[00:59:25]  You may never get out of prison.
[00:59:26]  You don't have to have murdered the guy.
[00:59:28]  You can have ordered the murder of the guy and you'll get life.
[00:59:33]  And that would fall under RICO.
[00:59:35]  I mean, it's extremely liberal.
[00:59:38]  So the point is, He's sitting in there and he's already been charged, by the way, on a conspiracy for drugs.
[00:59:44]  So it's not like we have to prove much at this point.
[00:59:47]  No, you don't.
[00:59:48]  And he can't.
[00:59:49]  What can he do?
[00:59:50]  He can't even really amount to defense.
[00:59:51]  He can't get on the stand.
[00:59:52]  Why?
[00:59:52]  Because I'm already in prison for drugs.
[00:59:57]  You really are just helpless.

=== Murder Conspiracy And RICO (15:38) ===

[01:00:01]  So he starts explaining.
[01:00:02]  He goes, Do you understand they're going to pull all your phone records?
[01:00:04]  If there's any phone records that you have that are on your phone that are on other inmates' phones, they're going to pull their phone records.
[01:00:10]  So now he's like, Because here's what happens.
[01:00:12]  I should explain this.
[01:00:14]  An inmate gets 300 minutes a month.
[01:00:18]  So I get 300 minutes a month I can use, right?
[01:00:21]  Well, where I, you know, I can pick up the phone, I can call for 300 minutes.
[01:00:24]  I can talk to you for 15 minutes at a time until it basically, you know, adds up.
[01:00:27]  That's about 20 phone calls and that's it.
[01:00:29]  And then it's over.
[01:00:30]  Then I can't use it until the next month.
[01:00:33]  Well, if Danny's in prison and he doesn't have any money, I can go to Danny and say, look, I'm going to pay you $150 to buy the minutes and I'll give you another $100 and you let me use your 300 minutes.
[01:00:46]  So now I've got 600 minutes.
[01:00:48]  I could put all my phone numbers on his phone.
[01:00:50]  You have to load your phone numbers.
[01:00:52]  I could put all my phone numbers.
[01:00:53]  Well, that's the problem now, isn't it?
[01:00:54]  If I'm calling the same phone numbers that are on the same phone, click, click.
[01:00:58]  Now I can listen to all his and they're going to realize right away it's one.
[01:01:01]  So he's explaining to him, you know, they're going to cross reference your phone.
[01:01:05]  They're going to, and so now Vaughn's terrified.
[01:01:07]  So, like two days, like the next day or two days later, he comes to him like he hadn't slept all night.
[01:01:12]  And he comes to him and he goes, He goes, okay, I got to tell you something.
[01:01:15]  He goes, What?
[01:01:16]  He goes, I ordered the murder.
[01:01:17]  He goes, What?
[01:01:18]  He goes, I ordered the murder.
[01:01:19]  He goes, Not only did I order the murder, remember the document, the DEA 6 that said Jose Pata was a snitch?
[01:01:25]  Yeah.
[01:01:26]  He had contacted his lawyer and had his lawyer send him that document.
[01:01:29]  So now there's a correspondent with that.
[01:01:31]  Correspondence there.
[01:01:32]  Proof of that.
[01:01:33]  The lawyer sent it.
[01:01:34]  He then took that document and he sent it to Mexico.
[01:01:38]  He sent word to Mexico with the documents that Jose Pata was a snitch.
[01:01:44]  Look, DEA document says he's.
[01:01:45]  And if you read it, it sounds like it, but it's really not.
[01:01:48]  Right.
[01:01:49]  But so one that, plus he got me and all these other guys busted.
[01:01:52]  He lost all of your money.
[01:01:55]  And there's multiple other guys that are saying he snitched and he gave them their names.
[01:01:59]  So they go.
[01:02:01]  The consensus is that they went in front of Nacho.
[01:02:05]  And G, and they had a whole discussion about whether they should kill Pada, and they came to the conclusion that they had to kill him.
[01:02:16]  Juan was telling him, kill him, kill him, kill him.
[01:02:19]  And they said, look, this is a stand-up guy.
[01:02:21]  He's in prison.
[01:02:22]  He's doing 25 years.
[01:02:23]  This guy's had all these losses.
[01:02:25]  He's always blaming other people.
[01:02:27]  I got a DEA letter here that says he's a snitch, and I got a bunch of other guys that say he's a snitch.
[01:02:31]  It looks bad.
[01:02:31]  It looks bad.
[01:02:33]  They have him murdered.
[01:02:35]  Juan wanted him murdered.
[01:02:36]  They got him murdered.
[01:02:37]  So they send an assassin.
[01:02:38]  He breaks into the house, waits in the garage.
[01:02:40]  They come home.
[01:02:41]  Oh, I love this too.
[01:02:42]  He came home from church.
[01:02:44]  They'd just gone to church, came home with his two kids, takes him inside, shoots him in the head in front of his wife and two kids.
[01:02:50]  So Chris is like, this is bad.
[01:02:54]  He goes, you have to understand.
[01:02:55]  He said, I cannot lie to the FBI.
[01:02:57]  If they show up, if the DEA, if anybody shows up, he's like, I cannot be involved in this.
[01:03:02]  He's like, I'm trying to fight my own case.
[01:03:04]  If my name shows up and then I get in front of court, The U.S. attorney will be like, Your Honor, he's involved in homicide right now.
[01:03:11]  They'll say some fucked up shit like that.
[01:03:13]  Right, just to make you look bad.
[01:03:14]  When I went to sentencing on my own case, let me just tell you this.
[01:03:17]  When I went to sentencing on my own case, I've never had a gun.
[01:03:20]  I don't have a gun.
[01:03:21]  There's no gun.
[01:03:23]  My ex-girlfriend had like a 9mm or something.
[01:03:28]  She had a receipt.
[01:03:28]  It had been stolen.
[01:03:30]  She still had the receipt.
[01:03:33]  I had been, we had a burglary, right?
[01:03:36]  And we had a bunch of stuff stolen.
[01:03:38]  I actually was filling out.
[01:03:41]  The report to the insurance company, and I put down, like, what it says, did you have any weapons?
[01:03:49]  I put down that I had like an M4 machine gun or something.
[01:03:53]  I was trying to get as much money back as possible, right?
[01:03:56]  Yeah.
[01:03:57]  When I got busted.
[01:03:58]  Once a con man, always a con man.
[01:03:59]  Of course.
[01:04:00]  I was on the run right then.
[01:04:01]  So when they got that, the government got the report and they were interviewing me.
[01:04:06]  They said, well, you had a machine gun and a nine millimeter.
[01:04:09]  I said, no, I didn't.
[01:04:11]  They actually charged me with a.
[01:04:12]  With a gun charge.
[01:04:16]  It's called constructive possession.
[01:04:18]  That's when I ask you to buy a gun for me.
[01:04:21]  Or you're holding a gun.
[01:04:23]  We've got a gun.
[01:04:23]  You've got the gun on you, but really you're there to protect me.
[01:04:26]  I can now get charged with your gun, even if it's in your name.
[01:04:28]  Wow.
[01:04:29]  So I sit there and I explain to her, no, no, no, you don't understand.
[01:04:33]  I've never had a gun.
[01:04:34]  And I explain, she's, what about the nine millimeter?
[01:04:36]  I said, well, that was my girlfriend's gun.
[01:04:37]  That was Amanda's gun.
[01:04:39]  And she's like, well, and they charged me for it.
[01:04:41]  I said, no, well, you have to drop that charge.
[01:04:42]  I can't plead guilty to that charge.
[01:04:44]  That's not what happened.
[01:04:45]  I'm willing to accept the responsibility for what I did, but you're talking about a machine gun.
[01:04:49]  I never had a machine gun.
[01:04:50]  And the U.S. attorney was arguing with me, and I said, you don't understand.
[01:04:53]  I'll go to trial on it.
[01:04:54]  You can put Amanda on the stand.
[01:04:56]  She's going to say, that nine millimeter was hers and that i've never had a machine gun never.
[01:05:02]  I was just trying to get extra money out of the insurance company, trust me.
[01:05:06]  And so she sat there.
[01:05:07]  U.s attorney goes.
[01:05:07]  Okay, we'll drop the charge.
[01:05:09]  No okay, I understand, I get it.
[01:05:10]  When I went to sentencing she said mr Cox had a gun and a machine gun he wasn't licensed for.
[01:05:19]  Is that?
[01:05:21]  Is she allowed to do that?
[01:05:22]  I mean, they're allowed to do whatever they want.
[01:05:24]  Objection, your honor.
[01:05:25]  Of course my lawyer objected.
[01:05:28]  She already said It.
[01:05:29]  It's too late.
[01:05:30]  Yeah, the judge is like, and what's she going to do?
[01:05:32]  Like, when I'm turning to my lawyer, that's not true.
[01:05:34]  That's not true.
[01:05:35]  You know, your lawyer says, shh, be quiet.
[01:05:36]  Don't say anything.
[01:05:37]  Don't say anything.
[01:05:38]  Like, we have bigger fish to fry.
[01:05:40]  We don't want to argue that point.
[01:05:41]  We don't want to argue.
[01:05:42]  Why?
[01:05:42]  I keep bringing it up.
[01:05:45]  I mean, you listen to your lawyer.
[01:05:46]  I'm just like, right.
[01:05:47]  Now, I wasn't being charged with it anyway, but she used it to, it was inflammatory.
[01:05:51]  Oh, yeah.
[01:05:52]  Part of the theatrics.
[01:05:54]  Absolutely.
[01:05:54]  So the judge, of course, is like, oh, you think you're a badass walking around with a gun?
[01:05:58]  I don't have a gun.
[01:05:59]  I don't have a gun.
[01:06:01]  Gun toting nut.
[01:06:02]  I fill out paperwork.
[01:06:04]  I sign documents.
[01:06:06]  I have an arts degree.
[01:06:06]  Right.
[01:06:07]  I'm a fine arts degree.
[01:06:09]  Right.
[01:06:11]  So I got a paintbrush.
[01:06:13]  Right.
[01:06:13]  I'm not dangerous.
[01:06:14]  I mean, hurt someone's feelings once.
[01:06:15]  But my point is that so Chris is saying, look, I can't be in front of the judge and they bring this murder up.
[01:06:24]  Right.
[01:06:25]  So he's saying, so Juan, I'm telling you, you know, he's trying to tell him, you need to contact the homicide detectives and tell them what happened.
[01:06:33]  He's like, but I ordered the murder.
[01:06:34]  He goes, it doesn't matter that you ordered the murder.
[01:06:36]  He goes, now more than ever, you need to go to them.
[01:06:40]  And Juan's fear was that he had ordered the murder using another phone.
[01:06:46]  And he was afraid they're going to get to that phone.
[01:06:50]  Like, once they figure out that I was using Danny's phone and they hear me talking about the murder on the phone prior to it being in the paper, prior to, I've got a real problem here.
[01:07:02]  This guy ended up dead.
[01:07:03]  And I'm the only one screaming he's a fucking informant.
[01:07:05]  Right.
[01:07:06]  So.
[01:07:06]  He's saying, Chris is saying, all the more reason you get in front of it.
[01:07:11]  Juan is saying, no, no, you don't understand.
[01:07:13]  I need to get my time knocked off.
[01:07:15]  I plan on getting, I'm going to need all these guys when I get out.
[01:07:18]  I'm going to start get back into the drug game.
[01:07:20]  Wow, this guy's getting greedy.
[01:07:21]  Yeah, he's nuts.
[01:07:22]  He's thinking, one, we're going to win our motion.
[01:07:25]  I'm going to get the 10 years knocked off.
[01:07:26]  And two, I'm going to get out and start doing everything over again.
[01:07:30]  Hell yeah.
[01:07:30]  Because now I know what I'm doing.
[01:07:32]  Now I'm smart about it.
[01:07:33]  I'm going to be smart about it.
[01:07:34]  Yeah.
[01:07:36]  So Chris is freaking out.
[01:07:38]  Well, what happens is, no big deal.
[01:07:39]  Chris actually worked for the lieutenant's office.
[01:07:41]  He actually was a lieutenant's orderly.
[01:07:43]  That just means you come in and you change the garbage cans and sweep up the place.
[01:07:46]  So he was always being called over the intercom.
[01:07:49]  So one day he gets called over the intercom, maybe a couple days later, a week later.
[01:07:53]  You know, they say, hey, Chris Silva to the lieutenant's office.
[01:07:55]  He goes, okay.
[01:07:56]  So he goes in there, goes into the office, and they go, hey, Chris, you got to go to RD.
[01:08:03]  It's called receiving departure.
[01:08:05]  It's another area.
[01:08:06]  So he goes over there, opens the door, and then, you know, he said, and sometimes I had to go pick up stuff.
[01:08:10]  So I walk in there and they go, hey, go in this room over there.
[01:08:12]  There's a guy in here who wants to talk to you.
[01:08:13]  He's like, okay, he walks in, boom.
[01:08:15]  Guy stands up, or a woman stands up and says, hey, I'm FBI agent so-and-so.
[01:08:19]  Homicide detective stands up and says, boom, I'm homicide detective so-and-so.
[01:08:22]  We understand that you're doing legal work for Juan Garcia.
[01:08:25]  We'd like to talk to you about the murder of Jose Pata.
[01:08:26]  He's like, holy shit.
[01:08:28]  He goes, this compound is 80% cartel members.
[01:08:33]  80%.
[01:08:34]  He goes, if I don't walk out of here in the next 30 seconds, I'm a dead man.
[01:08:38]  He said, do you understand?
[01:08:39]  Like there's eyes everywhere.
[01:08:41]  And they go, okay, well, real quick, did you know anything about the murder?
[01:08:45]  He goes, he goes, I have handwritten notes regarding different murders.
[01:08:51]  He said, I'm doing his legal work.
[01:08:52]  He's confessed to me.
[01:08:53]  He's confessed to me in front of another inmate.
[01:08:57]  So he's confessed about the murder.
[01:09:00]  He talked to him, told him about it, but then another time he told him again with one of his buddies right there.
[01:09:06]  He's confessed to me and another inmate.
[01:09:10]  He said, I know the phone numbers he was using.
[01:09:14]  I know exactly how it all went down.
[01:09:16]  I know everything.
[01:09:17]  He said, but if you ever want to talk to me about it, he goes, you get me moved to the low security prison in Coleman, Florida, and get me a lawyer.
[01:09:25]  And he walked out.
[01:09:27]  Holy shit.
[01:09:28]  Two weeks later, he's on a plane.
[01:09:30]  To Coleman.
[01:09:32]  On Con Air.
[01:09:33]  Hell yeah.
[01:09:34]  With Nick Cage.
[01:09:34]  Oh, fuck yeah.
[01:09:36]  Goes in, gets a sign.
[01:09:37]  He said, a week later, he gets a letter in the mail from a lawyer.
[01:09:41]  They appointed him, the government appointed him a lawyer.
[01:09:44]  Then a week or two later, they were like a month or so later, he gets called in.
[01:09:48]  The lawyer flies in from like Los Angeles or wherever he was from.
[01:09:51]  And he says, okay.
[01:09:52]  He said, this is the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
[01:09:54]  He said, they're actually paying me to negotiate with you on whether or not you'll cooperate.
[01:10:00]  And he goes, okay.
[01:10:01]  He said, well, look.
[01:10:02]  He said, hold on.
[01:10:03]  Chris says that to who?
[01:10:04]  One?
[01:10:05]  No, The lawyer says he's a lawyer.
[01:10:06]  A lawyer flies in for Chris.
[01:10:08]  The government hired a lawyer for Chris.
[01:10:10]  Okay, I got you.
[01:10:11]  Just to negotiate whether he'll cooperate.
[01:10:14]  Whether Chris will cooperate.
[01:10:16]  Right.
[01:10:16]  Basically, rat out Juan.
[01:10:17]  Right.
[01:10:18]  He can basically say, I have nothing to say.
[01:10:21]  Okay, cool.
[01:10:22]  Lawyer goes back.
[01:10:23]  Yeah, he's got nothing to say.
[01:10:24]  Yeah.
[01:10:24]  But now he's in Coleman, so he's good.
[01:10:26]  Right.
[01:10:26]  Yeah.
[01:10:27]  Well, now he's in Coleman.
[01:10:28]  He's a little bit more safe, but he's not so safe that it doesn't mean that a family member on the street would get killed or a.
[01:10:39]  Coleman was like college, right?
[01:10:41]  I mean, it was, but like we talked about this, like people got stabbed.
[01:10:45]  Like there were gang members, they got stabbed, they got cut.
[01:10:48]  Yeah, it's just not like the feds in California or so.
[01:10:50]  Exactly.
[01:10:51]  Thank you.
[01:10:51]  It wasn't as bad as the medium.
[01:10:53]  It wasn't happening every week, but two or three times, two or three times probably a year or every few months, guys are getting stabbed.
[01:11:06]  There are beatings.
[01:11:07]  But it's not like it sounds like it should be scary, but it has nothing to do with me.
[01:11:11]  Mm hmm.
[01:11:12]  If you two have a fight and you're in two other units and you have an issue, I hear about you getting stabbed.
[01:11:17]  Right.
[01:11:19]  But it ain't like somebody just got stabbed in front of you.
[01:11:21]  Right.
[01:11:21]  It's like, who?
[01:11:21]  Actually, the medium I've seen people stab, but still, it has nothing to do with me.
[01:11:26]  Right.
[01:11:26]  I know it sounds insensitive, but the truth is it's like high school.
[01:11:30]  Yeah.
[01:11:31]  If you know these two idiots over here hate each other and then you hear they get into a fight in the locker room.
[01:11:36]  Okay.
[01:11:37]  You know, oh my gosh, you're in a place where people get stabbed.
[01:11:40]  Well, yeah.
[01:11:41]  It's prison.
[01:11:42]  I was in science class.
[01:11:43]  Yeah.
[01:11:44]  I don't have a problem with anybody.
[01:11:45]  Right.
[01:11:46]  Yeah.
[01:11:47]  The point is, is one, yes, he could get hurt.
[01:11:49]  Okay.
[01:11:50]  Or the other thing, too, is he could easily get moved to a higher security prison.
[01:11:54]  The crazy thing is, he got exactly what he asked for.
[01:11:57]  Like, oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:11:58]  Oh, they'll do anything for you if they want something from you.
[01:12:00]  Here's the issue is that.
[01:12:02]  But even the lawyer said he's never seen it.
[01:12:04]  Yeah.
[01:12:04]  He said, oh, yeah, I've never seen it.
[01:12:05]  He goes, I've never seen it.
[01:12:06]  Well, never seen him where they hire me just to talk to you about possibly cooperating.
[01:12:12]  Right.
[01:12:13]  So he says, look, I'll cooperate, but you can't leave me in prison.
[01:12:16]  Because as soon as Juan.
[01:12:18]  Gets his discovery in the case, he's going to know I'm the one that told.
[01:12:23]  Okay, I got family in California.
[01:12:25]  You know, I've got, you know, this is, this is, this is, even if they don't hurt me, they could kill a family member.
[01:12:31]  And he's saying, look, I've already done like, like, I've done like, whatever, 20, 20 some odd years on like a roughly a 30 year sentence.
[01:12:39]  So with good time and whatever.
[01:12:41]  You're getting close.
[01:12:42]  He only had like four years left, four or five years left.
[01:12:44]  So he's like, look, he's like, all I need is I'll cooperate if they indict him as soon as the indictment happens.
[01:12:51]  Cause when the indictment happens, then you get your discovery.
[01:12:54]  As soon as the indictment happens, they have to file a Rule 35 and cut me loose.
[01:13:01]  And he's like, I'm getting out anyway, but it's going to take you six months to do the indictment anyway.
[01:13:05]  I mean, by that point, I'm basically just practically out anyway.
[01:13:10]  And the lawyer goes, that seems fair.
[01:13:12]  I'll go back to him.
[01:13:13]  So he goes back to him, and the government says, well, what exactly does he know?
[01:13:19]  And so they go back and forth, back and forth.
[01:13:21]  And finally, they say, okay, they told his lawyer, tell him, we promise him that we will.
[01:13:28]  Reduces sentence for the information.
[01:13:31]  So tell me what's the information.
[01:13:33]  And the lawyer does what's called a proffer.
[01:13:36]  He basically, for Chris, because he knows the information, he goes, okay, here's what happened.
[01:13:40]  And he explains the whole thing.
[01:13:43]  Then the U.S. attorney stops returning his phone calls.
[01:13:45]  Right.
[01:13:46]  They got what they needed at that point.
[01:13:47]  They got what they needed.
[01:13:48]  They could find the phone records and everything.
[01:13:51]  Right.
[01:13:52]  So they could basically probably prove it without Chris.
[01:13:55]  And they may have thought that.
[01:13:57]  But what ended up happening was they contacted.
[01:14:00]  Like they then contacted the homicide detective.
[01:14:03]  Well, the homicide detective, they also lied to the U.S. attorney.
[01:14:06]  They told him the homicide detective was on his way to fly out there.
[01:14:09]  It was all arranged.
[01:14:10]  This is when it's happening.
[01:14:11]  So Chris's attorney, it proffers thinking everything sounds great.
[01:14:16]  Well, then they stopped returning his phone call.
[01:14:17]  He eventually contacts the homicide detective.
[01:14:19]  They stopped returning the lawyer's phone calls.
[01:14:21]  The lawyer's phone calls.
[01:14:22]  Then the homicide detective.
[01:14:24]  Isn't he getting paid?
[01:14:26]  The U.S. attorney who works for the government stopped returning the phone calls from, not from, Chris's lawyer.
[01:14:35]  Chris is still talking to the lawyer.
[01:14:37]  Right, but Chris's lawyer is getting paid by these people, right?
[01:14:40]  That aren't returning his phone calls.
[01:14:41]  Right, but he's basically served his purpose.
[01:14:43]  He's being paid by the court, not the U.S. Attorney's Office.
[01:14:46]  Okay.
[01:14:46]  It doesn't matter.
[01:14:47]  It's not like a year's salary.
[01:14:49]  Right.
[01:14:50]  They needed a couple things from him and paid him some money.
[01:14:52]  Yeah, they gave him 12 grand.
[01:14:53]  Now they got their information.
[01:14:55]  But here's the thing that his attorney even called the homicide detective because they had told him he was flying out.
[01:15:01]  Homicide detective says, What?
[01:15:04]  No, we're not flying out.
[01:15:05]  I haven't even talked to the guy.
[01:15:06]  What are you talking about?
[01:15:07]  I mean, just completely blatantly and just lied to him.
[01:15:11]  Set up a whole environment that was conducive to tell me what happened.
[01:15:14]  Right.
[01:15:15]  So, as that, keep in mind, they were also at this point, they had not prosecuted El Chapo.
[01:15:23]  So, they're probably thinking we can use this in El Chapo's case because El Chapo would have had to have been one of the people to make that decision.
[01:15:31]  So, what ends up happening is they got their information.
[01:15:36]  The homicide detective said, He called the U.S. Attorney's Office.

=== Twelve Grand And A Lie (15:59) ===

[01:15:40]  The U.S. Attorney's Office said, yeah, we're not interested in pursuing this.
[01:15:42]  He's like, yeah, but this is a homicide that happened in California.
[01:15:46]  We're interested in it.
[01:15:48]  So I'd like to come go see this guy.
[01:15:50]  He said, go see him.
[01:15:51]  He's like, no, no, you have to give him the agreement that you said you'd give him.
[01:15:54]  And the U.S. Attorney is like, you know, we're not going to give him any fucking agreement.
[01:15:58]  Fuck him.
[01:15:58]  No.
[01:15:59]  Let him do all this time.
[01:16:00]  Now, here's the thing.
[01:16:01]  Chris has been fighting his case the entire time he's been down.
[01:16:05]  Now, let's say, take me for example.
[01:16:08]  I go in, I cooperate.
[01:16:11]  I plead guilty.
[01:16:12]  I don't file anything.
[01:16:14]  I'm doing everything I can to help you to try and reduce my sentence.
[01:16:18]  So, if the opportunity presents itself, most likely you're going to help me.
[01:16:21]  In my case, though, keep in mind, I did help you.
[01:16:24]  They still didn't.
[01:16:25]  This happens all the time where you cooperate.
[01:16:28]  They actually arrest someone.
[01:16:29]  They indict them.
[01:16:30]  They get everything.
[01:16:32]  And guess what?
[01:16:32]  They still don't give anything.
[01:16:33]  Fuck them.
[01:16:35]  Fuck Danny.
[01:16:36]  Let him do all his time.
[01:16:37]  There's no sort of paperwork that could bind them to that.
[01:16:41]  Remember the Mueller case we talked about?
[01:16:42]  Yeah.
[01:16:43]  Remember, I also told you that's one of the only times I've ever seen a document that was binding.
[01:16:49]  Right.
[01:16:50]  I remember you saying that.
[01:16:51]  Tons of these things.
[01:16:52]  They're never binding.
[01:16:53]  Because what they want to do is when they put you on the stand, let's say you cooperate and this guy and he gets busted and then he goes to trial.
[01:17:02]  They want to be able to put you on the stand.
[01:17:04]  Sounds right.
[01:17:07]  And have Danny, when your defense attorney says, have you been promised anything?
[01:17:12]  They want Danny to say, no.
[01:17:14]  If Danny says, yeah, they did promise me, they promised me that, then it looks like they bought your.
[01:17:20]  Right.
[01:17:20]  Right.
[01:17:21]  Like you could be lying because whatever.
[01:17:22]  Right, because you're trying to get him to get something.
[01:17:24]  Yeah.
[01:17:25]  Right.
[01:17:25]  Instead, if you say no, they go, well, are you hoping to get something?
[01:17:29]  Well, yeah.
[01:17:29]  I mean, I'd like the government to do something.
[01:17:30]  They never promised me anything.
[01:17:33]  That's really why they do it.
[01:17:35]  It looks good.
[01:17:36]  And so can you explain?
[01:17:37]  So it's basically bullshit.
[01:17:38]  Can you explain briefly the difference between what makes it binding and what makes it something like this example where it's just a promise that you're hoping they give you what they promised?
[01:17:51]  It's just the wording.
[01:17:52]  Like in my own case, it's a specific wording in the agreement in my own case.
[01:17:56]  They said If any of the information that mr. Cox Gives us leads to the indictment or recovery of a substantial amount of funds We will consider it consider substantial assistance.
[01:18:12]  So basically the agreement just has to say if Matt Cox does give us this information period We will reduce his own will right now.
[01:18:19]  We will right not contingent on them consider it right.
[01:18:22]  I told you that I call back and said yeah, they said this they said they do it and they said right they said She goes, No, no, we said we'd consider it.
[01:18:28]  And we did consider it.
[01:18:30]  And it's not enough.
[01:18:31]  So, how do people not catch this?
[01:18:32]  No, they do.
[01:18:33]  Your lawyer will tell you.
[01:18:34]  You understand they're not promised.
[01:18:36]  The point is this Look, Danny, you just got 20 years.
[01:18:38]  Yeah.
[01:18:39]  We need you to give information on John.
[01:18:42]  And you go, Okay, well, I want something binding.
[01:18:43]  We're not giving you that.
[01:18:45]  But if you give it to us and he gets arrested, we'll consider it substantial assistance.
[01:18:48]  And we might reduce your sentence as a result.
[01:18:50]  Say, Fuck it.
[01:18:50]  Go take it.
[01:18:51]  People just take it.
[01:18:52]  Of course.
[01:18:53]  It's a hope.
[01:18:54]  What is your choice?
[01:18:55]  Fuck you.
[01:18:56]  I'll do my time.
[01:18:57]  Okay.
[01:18:57]  Right.
[01:18:58]  I sleep like a baby at night.
[01:18:59]  Yeah, they don't give a fuck.
[01:19:00]  I don't care about you.
[01:19:01]  Trust me, I don't care about John either.
[01:19:03]  There's a thousand Johns waiting to be prosecuted.
[01:19:05]  That doesn't change a thing for me.
[01:19:07]  That's why it's so easy to screw you over because everybody's willing to, you're willing to do, take a risk, anything.
[01:19:14]  You know what really it is?
[01:19:15]  You know all that is?
[01:19:16]  That's the worst thing.
[01:19:17]  That's just hope.
[01:19:18]  Why?
[01:19:19]  I'm cooperating.
[01:19:19]  And for the next six months to a year, while he gets investigated, arrested, and sentenced, you have a year's worth of hope that you might get out.
[01:19:29]  And I know that's it's all it's horrible.
[01:19:31]  It's horrible for people on the street to understand But you if you haven't been in that position so sinister.
[01:19:37]  Oh, it's so horrible.
[01:19:39]  It's a horrible system.
[01:19:41]  So back to Chris.
[01:19:43]  So we don't you know, we're already dragging so we're dragging.
[01:19:46]  We don't have time.
[01:19:48]  Well, the comments are already gonna go nuts.
[01:19:50]  Oh, yeah So you know, stop getting off on tangents cocks stay on topic.
[01:19:55]  Okay, so what happens is his lawyer His lawyer was duped.
[01:20:00]  You know, Chris was duped.
[01:20:02]  His lawyer was duped.
[01:20:03]  And the homicide detective is furious.
[01:20:06]  The homicide detective wants to solve the case.
[01:20:09]  He's saying to the U.S. attorney, give him something.
[01:20:12]  Write the agreement.
[01:20:14]  But he won't.
[01:20:15]  Now he's not returning his phone calls.
[01:20:18]  So that whole thing, so I ended up hearing this whole thing from Chris.
[01:20:22]  He told me the whole story.
[01:20:24]  And I was like, man, you got to let me write this up.
[01:20:27]  This is really the twists and turns.
[01:20:29]  What I really love is this, is that even when Chris said, even when he was moved, he was, I mean, literally up until like the day I was moved, he was still saying Pata was a snitch, even though everything the U.S. attorney presented, Everything in the court, everything, including the homicide detective, everything across the board said Jose Pata was not a snitch.
[01:20:53]  During the course of Chris's investigation, he found out that the person that connected everybody, the person that got everybody busted, the person that got the DEA, all of the evidence was Juan Garcia.
[01:21:07]  Remember, the truck driver called him.
[01:21:10]  He then called everybody.
[01:21:11]  So therefore, they got wiretaps on every single phone call.
[01:21:17]  He was just he was just a horrible drug dealer.
[01:21:21]  He's talking to people openly Hey man, they got that stuff.
[01:21:24]  They got the they got all the stuff.
[01:21:25]  They got the money 1.2 million.
[01:21:27]  They got everything.
[01:21:27]  Oh, okay.
[01:21:28]  Oh my Okay, well look I'll talk to you in person.
[01:21:30]  Oh, okay.
[01:21:31]  The fuck are you doing?
[01:21:31]  This guy was just reckless.
[01:21:32]  What are you doing?
[01:21:33]  Remember I told you about Doug Dodd where his buddies would like be like hey man, can you get me three green apples and two blueberries?
[01:21:43]  He's like, I mean, what are we farmers?
[01:21:44]  Sounds like a conversation I had with him.
[01:21:46]  Are we grocers?
[01:21:47]  Yeah.
[01:21:47]  You know, what are you doing?
[01:21:48]  Yeah, let me call Johnny Appleseed.
[01:21:50]  Right.
[01:21:50]  The DEA is not stupid.
[01:21:52]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:21:53]  I mean, you can't wait to meet me on the corner.
[01:21:56]  You can't wait 20 minutes to drive over here.
[01:21:59]  You're going to get us pinched and get us 15 years apiece.
[01:22:01]  So the point is that the whole thing played out, and I ended up writing his story.
[01:22:08]  Juan is the one that got everything busted.
[01:22:09]  And what really upset Chris mostly is, and the other guy, what upset Chris most was like, he was like, look, you're a drug dealer.
[01:22:19]  You're a drug dealer at that level.
[01:22:21]  You got to know you could get killed.
[01:22:23]  He is, but you don't go into someone's house and murder them in front of their wife and two kids.
[01:22:30]  They could have gotten to this guy some other way.
[01:22:33]  Sure.
[01:22:34]  And he's like, that bothers me.
[01:22:36]  That really bothered him.
[01:22:38]  Not that the cartels are vicious.
[01:22:41]  They'll kill you and your family and everything.
[01:22:43]  And he's like, but they really bothered me because Pata hadn't done anything wrong.
[01:22:47]  This was a dispute over the price of.
[01:22:50]  Of a couple of kilos of cocaine.
[01:22:52]  This really had nothing to do with anybody being a snitch.
[01:22:55]  And then the fact that Juan wouldn't admit it.
[01:22:58]  He wouldn't, even though all the facts said that he wasn't a snitch, Juan couldn't accept the fact that he was the one that got everybody busted.
[01:23:07]  He just couldn't accept it.
[01:23:08]  His ego wouldn't let him.
[01:23:10]  So the other thing, remember when I'm back to the very beginning of the podcast when I talked about calling the detective?
[01:23:16]  Yeah.
[01:23:17]  So the homicide detective.
[01:23:18]  The detective that you called who said, you're Matt Cox?
[01:23:21]  Yeah, you're Matt Cox, the comment.
[01:23:22]  So when he called, When the main detective, the one that wasn't home, was at home that day, he called me back.
[01:23:28]  He's like, Hey, Mr. Cox.
[01:23:29]  And as we were talking, I'm telling him, Look, why don't you call the U.S. Attorney?
[01:23:33]  He's like, I've called the U.S. Attorney.
[01:23:36]  He won't do it.
[01:23:36]  You know how this works.
[01:23:38]  He's like, You've been through the system.
[01:23:40]  You know how this works.
[01:23:41]  I've watched your podcast.
[01:23:42]  I mean, he's telling me all this.
[01:23:43]  I'm like, I'm sitting there thinking to him, I wish Danny was here.
[01:23:47]  How do you record these things?
[01:23:49]  I wish I was there too, Max.
[01:23:50]  Hilarious.
[01:23:51]  So I'm talking to him and I said, And he said, Listen, I said, Well, and I go, So I guess.
[01:23:57]  I go, so is it, is it, I go, well, why don't you just indict the guy anyway?
[01:24:02]  Go see him.
[01:24:03]  He's like, he said, I said, I mean, you've got two guys that are willing to say that he pled guilty.
[01:24:10]  I said, plus you've got all the evidence.
[01:24:13]  Plus I said, and he sat there and he goes, he said, we actually have more than that.
[01:24:18]  I go, what do you mean?
[01:24:19]  He said, he goes, we actually have a third inmate that Juan Garcia, after Chris was moved to Coleman, Juan was moved to another prison.
[01:24:34]  At the other prison, another inmate, Contacted the homicide detectives and said that Juan Garcia also confessed to him.
[01:24:45]  You have three inmates, two are at completely separate prisons that he has admitted that he murdered this guy.
[01:24:55]  And all of these guys are saying, Look, just promise to get me out of prison.
[01:25:01]  You can't leave me in prison to get killed, you know, or my family.
[01:25:05]  You got to get me out of prison.
[01:25:07]  They're saying, Ah, fuck it.
[01:25:08]  They're going to let a murderer go.
[01:25:11]  Go free.
[01:25:12]  And here's, you know, remember we were talking about all the different evidence and stuff?
[01:25:15]  I'll tell you right now.
[01:25:17]  Hold on.
[01:25:17]  So why don't they indict Juan?
[01:25:22]  Because, well, because the guys are saying they're not going to talk unless you get me out of prison.
[01:25:28]  You can't, their fear is I testify or I.
[01:25:33]  But they already have it.
[01:25:35]  They already have what Chris gave them.
[01:25:37]  Chris told them that he confessed.
[01:25:39]  Right.
[01:25:40]  But it was just, it was very quickly.
[01:25:42]  It wasn't like a formal, they come in, they've got.
[01:25:45]  Two people there, they write it up, they put it in evidence, they indict him.
[01:25:48]  Once they indict him and Juan finds out, these guys are subject to be murdered.
[01:25:52]  Right now, there's nothing.
[01:25:53]  And these guys are saying, We won't cooperate, we won't testify.
[01:25:58]  Like, if you indict him, I'm not testifying.
[01:26:00]  Got it, got it.
[01:26:01]  You know, so they're like, We can't get the U.S. attorney to, or the, sorry, the state, the attorney to, the district attorney to file a grand jury because these guys are saying they won't testify.
[01:26:13]  So we're not going to indict this guy.
[01:26:15]  These guys are saying they won't.
[01:26:18]  It's a whole thing.
[01:26:18]  But here, this is while they were talking, at one point, Juan actually wrote down.
[01:26:25]  He's talking about Kuko, by the way.
[01:26:26]  Remember his partner?
[01:26:27]  Yeah.
[01:26:29]  He actually writes down that Kuko had 500 kilos lost and there were two murders that Kuko had committed.
[01:26:37]  Here he says 500 kilos.
[01:26:39]  And then he also says, so you say 850 or something like that.
[01:26:44]  What was he?
[01:26:44]  200 kilos?
[01:26:45]  What's the other kilos?
[01:26:46]  385.
[01:26:47]  385.
[01:26:48]  That's over 30.
[01:26:50]  1,300 kilos and two murders, and that's all that's in Juan's handwriting.
[01:26:55]  So let me see two bodies.
[01:26:59]  Oh, bodies.
[01:27:01]  Badios.
[01:27:03]  Maybe that's Spanish.
[01:27:03]  It's my handwriting.
[01:27:04]  I didn't write bodies.
[01:27:05]  It's bodies.
[01:27:07]  Did I spell it wrong?
[01:27:08]  Or is it just bad handwriting?
[01:27:09]  I thought it was like a Spanish word.
[01:27:11]  There's an eye in there for sure.
[01:27:14]  Maybe he spelled bodies B O D I E S.
[01:27:16]  Yeah.
[01:27:19]  What am I missing?
[01:27:19]  An eye.
[01:27:20]  Wow.
[01:27:24]  So, do you think they want to indict him because he's already locked up?
[01:27:28]  There's no point in.
[01:27:29]  No, he'll be getting out soon.
[01:27:31]  Juan will eventually be getting out.
[01:27:33]  Remember, he's working on that 25 piece, but at this point, he's.
[01:27:40]  I don't know how.
[01:27:40]  Well, now he does have about five to ten more years.
[01:27:44]  Five to ten more years.
[01:27:46]  They're not indicting him because they don't have people to testify to really prove their case.
[01:27:50]  Right, because they simply won't let these guys out of jail for two years early, three years early.
[01:27:55]  So, they're going to let this guy out instead.
[01:27:56]  This guy's going to get out.
[01:27:57]  He killed somebody in front of two kids.
[01:27:59]  What's the point?
[01:28:00]  I don't understand.
[01:28:01]  What's the point?
[01:28:02]  Why?
[01:28:02]  Is it just like lost in the bureaucracy of the federal government and they just don't care?
[01:28:09]  Well, the homicide detective's furious.
[01:28:10]  He's very upset.
[01:28:12]  He's like, I want this salt.
[01:28:14]  Listen, if you're a homicide detective, you've reached that's like the pinnacle.
[01:28:20]  Like, that's the top spot.
[01:28:21]  Homicide detectives are passionate.
[01:28:23]  They don't care about anything.
[01:28:24]  I don't care about drugs.
[01:28:25]  I don't care about drugs.
[01:28:26]  They care about the worst possible crime that's ever been committed, that can be committed on a human being, which is murder.
[01:28:33]  Right.
[01:28:33]  And they want to solve it.
[01:28:34]  They want to solve it.
[01:28:35]  This guy's saying, he said, I want to solve it.
[01:28:37]  He's like, this guy was murdered in front of his wife and two kids.
[01:28:41]  I want this salt.
[01:28:42]  He's like, I can't do it.
[01:28:44]  by myself, I either need these guys to say they will testify, in which case now they might get murdered, or I need, and they'll only say that if the U.S. Attorney says, we'll cut you loose.
[01:28:56]  Yeah.
[01:28:57]  That's it.
[01:28:58]  And the U.S. Attorney could call out.
[01:28:59]  Who is the U.S. Attorney?
[01:29:01]  I have it in here.
[01:29:01]  I don't know.
[01:29:03]  I don't know his name.
[01:29:04]  I have it in the file, in the thing.
[01:29:10]  Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
[01:29:14]  Who is the U.S.?
[01:29:15]  I mean, it's probably one of a million fucking cases they're dealing with, you know?
[01:29:19]  And if they don't got 100% fucking evidence.
[01:29:23]  U.S. Attorney's Office.
[01:29:27]  This is his lawyer.
[01:29:28]  Yeah, all of this is on the.
[01:29:30]  Is it the current sitting U.S. Attorney right now at this moment?
[01:29:33]  Yeah, but this is in like Chicago or California or wherever.
[01:29:38]  Oh, no, no.
[01:29:38]  This is somewhere in, I think.
[01:29:44]  I don't know, man.
[01:29:45]  I don't.
[01:29:46]  Dana, I can't track this down.
[01:29:48]  You're killing me.
[01:29:51]  I just think it'd be good to know for people listening.
[01:29:56]  I got an assistant.
[01:29:57]  So, how many U.S. attorneys are there?
[01:30:02]  Department of Justice.
[01:30:04]  Steve Meyer.
[01:30:05]  Is that his name?
[01:30:06]  Steve Meyer?
[01:30:07]  There's a U.S. attorney named Stephen Meyer.
[01:30:13]  Yeah, Stephen Meyer.
[01:30:14]  Meyer.
[01:30:21]  Steve's up to something.
[01:30:22]  Meyer.
[01:30:23]  Steven J. Meyer, sole practitioner dedicated exclusively to the representation of individual citizens accused of crimes in the state.
[01:30:31]  Well, wait a minute.
[01:30:31]  Federal court.
[01:30:32]  He was recently named best lawyer.
[01:30:33]  That sounds like a lawyer, yeah.
[01:30:34]  Yeah, that's a defense attorney.
[01:30:36]  That's not a U.S. attorney.
[01:30:39]  Department of Justice.
[01:30:40]  Yeah.
[01:30:40]  Oh, okay.
[01:30:41]  Department of Justice.
[01:30:42]  U.S. Attorney.
[01:30:43]  Steven J. Meyer.
[01:30:44]  Which district is it?
[01:30:46]  District of California.
[01:30:47]  Oh, okay.
[01:30:48]  Cool.
[01:30:49]  I was right.
[01:30:49]  California.
[01:30:50]  Well, I mean, the murder was in California.
[01:30:51]  Right.
[01:30:51]  Well, the drug case.
[01:30:53]  I think the drug case was connected also out of Chicago.
[01:30:56]  When I've been in Chicago and, and I know it might have just been L.A. His says the North District of California.
[01:31:04]  Right.
[01:31:06]  Yeah.
[01:31:09]  Hmm.
[01:31:10]  What the fuck's this guy up to?
[01:31:11]  I know there's definitely a connection.
[01:31:13]  What's Stephen Meyer up to?
[01:31:14]  There's a connection between that and Chicago.
[01:31:16]  I know that.
[01:31:17]  So how much time does Juan have left?
[01:31:19]  You said he's got like five or ten.
[01:31:21]  Five or ten.
[01:31:21]  What's Chris got left?
[01:31:23]  He's probably only got a couple.
[01:31:24]  About three, four.
[01:31:25]  About three more years.
[01:31:26]  Yeah.
[01:31:27]  Is he still pursuing any of this stuff?
[01:31:31]  I mean, that's basically why he let me do the podcast is because he's kind of like, is he still in Coleman?
[01:31:37]  It's over.
[01:31:38]  It's not going to happen.

=== Mental Instability And Time Left (02:58) ===

[01:31:40]  At least they let him stay in Coleman.
[01:31:42]  If anything, he got that.
[01:31:43]  Yeah.
[01:31:44]  I mean, he'd rather be in Coleman than in, listen, a low security prison in California is, it's like a medium here.
[01:31:56]  Yeah.
[01:31:56]  Probably even worse than the medium here.
[01:31:58]  Yeah.
[01:31:58]  I mean, these guys, it's like 80% cartel members and, you know, they're just.
[01:32:03]  Ruthless.
[01:32:03]  There's a whole bunch of money and it's all about pride and respect and that can go bad real, real quick, especially when half these guys are bipolar.
[01:32:10]  I mean, you can glance at me and think, oh, you disrespected me?
[01:32:14]  Just because mentally you're just off.
[01:32:17]  I've seen that happen in the medium over and over again.
[01:32:21]  I've seen a guy get stabbed because he had been with this guy, Sully, for like two years.
[01:32:28]  And he said, one day I walked out of the room and I walked by him.
[01:32:34]  And he said, I didn't acknowledge him and go, what's up?
[01:32:37]  He goes, we always go, what's up?
[01:32:38]  What's up?
[01:32:39]  He goes, I happen to be doing something.
[01:32:40]  I walked right by him and I just kind of glanced at him and kept walking.
[01:32:43]  So throughout the day, his selly was bipolar.
[01:32:46]  He turned that into a completely disrespectful.
[01:32:50]  He disrespected me.
[01:32:51]  He didn't acknowledge me.
[01:32:52]  He didn't this.
[01:32:53]  He didn't.
[01:32:53]  Now, these guys were in the pen.
[01:32:54]  And he said, by the end of that day, he said, I went into the TV room.
[01:32:59]  His selly walks up behind him with a fucking, with a knife and stabs him.
[01:33:02]  Jesus.
[01:33:03]  Because in his mind.
[01:33:06]  Yeah.
[01:33:08]  Is that what that's called?
[01:33:10]  Bipolar?
[01:33:11]  Yeah.
[01:33:12]  When you take shit like that, like way too literal?
[01:33:14]  Well, I mean, you're just extremes.
[01:33:16]  You're either low, like you're totally depressed, or angry and furious.
[01:33:20]  Or you take nothing to make it something crazy.
[01:33:22]  Right, right.
[01:33:22]  You turn nothing into something insane.
[01:33:24]  Or you go ballistic and you're thinking.
[01:33:27]  Or, you know, it could be you could be furious for no reason, or you could be ecstatic for no reason.
[01:33:33]  Like, this is amazing.
[01:33:35]  And you're like, bro, it's chocolate milk.
[01:33:36]  They're giving us chocolate milk today.
[01:33:38]  Man, it's so much.
[01:33:39]  I love chocolate milk.
[01:33:39]  This is the best thing ever.
[01:33:40]  I said, Yeah.
[01:33:41]  Damn.
[01:33:42]  Or you could go completely the opposite direction.
[01:33:44]  I mean, it's just the problem is you're either at one pole or the other.
[01:33:48]  Right.
[01:33:48]  You know, that's the problem.
[01:33:49]  You're constantly shifting.
[01:33:53]  Amadeo is a rapid cycling bipolar.
[01:33:56]  He does it constantly up, down, up, down, up, down.
[01:33:59]  I mean, we're not talking about like for hours.
[01:34:01]  Like there are some bipolars who will be up for days and then they'll be depressed and they can't get out of bed for a week.
[01:34:09]  You know, but rapid biceps all day long up, down, up, down, up, down.
[01:34:13]  Yeah.
[01:34:16]  Fuck.
[01:34:16]  Took crazy people, man.
[01:34:17]  I'm telling you.
[01:34:19]  Amadeo can drink.
[01:34:20]  He'll drink Pepsi like caffeine and it'll keep him maintaining that high level.
[01:34:25]  So he doesn't cycle constantly.
[01:34:27]  He gets up and it stays, but then it eventually comes down.
[01:34:30]  Yeah.
[01:34:31]  Oh, how horrible.
[01:34:32]  What a horrible.
[01:34:33]  It sounds exhausting.
[01:34:34]  Now we're talking about mental disorders.
[01:34:36]  I wanted to tell you or I wanted to talk about.

=== Rapid Cycling And Pedophiles (10:26) ===

[01:34:38]  I had your buddy on the podcast last week.
[01:34:41]  Right, right, right.
[01:34:43]  Mark.
[01:34:43]  Mark Leda.
[01:34:44]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:34:46]  Fucking super, super interesting, passionate guy.
[01:34:50]  Did you run that?
[01:34:51]  Did you play that yet?
[01:34:52]  No, I haven't published it yet.
[01:34:53]  It's getting published this Sunday.
[01:34:55]  Did he talk to you about where he does his things, his podcast?
[01:34:58]  Yeah, he told me it's on Skid Row.
[01:35:00]  He also has a studio in New York.
[01:35:02]  You've never been here, bro.
[01:35:04]  There's no Skid Row like that.
[01:35:06]  Because I went there.
[01:35:08]  He did mine.
[01:35:09]  There's nothing in Florida that's like this.
[01:35:12]  What do you mean?
[01:35:15]  It's like what you would think of as a refugee camp.
[01:35:24]  The street is lined with, and I don't mean like a block.
[01:35:28]  What do you mean blocks and blocks and blocks and blocks in LA, which is just lined with like tents and boxes and people built houses out of boxes and they live in them and they're up against the chain link fences and there's just people everywhere.
[01:35:43]  There's sleeping bags everywhere and they're sleeping and they're shitting on the street and there are hookers out there and there are drug addicts and they're shooting drugs and they're yelling and screaming and it's nothing.
[01:35:53]  Sirens, constantly hear sirens.
[01:35:55]  And that's why when I had seen his videos and I actually had watched the videos, you could hear sirens.
[01:36:02]  Yeah, in the background.
[01:36:04]  And I always thought because he'd be interviewing like a prostitute or a heroin addict.
[01:36:08]  I always thought oh, this guy he had to do something to me He dubbed it.
[01:36:12]  Yeah, he didn't You could hear him outside.
[01:36:15]  So what was it like when you were walking up to his studio like he obviously gave you the address right you met him there No, he gave me the address he picked me up because he was like um He goes it's gonna probably he's it might be hard to get a an Uber here.
[01:36:26]  He goes let me um and I didn't understand Yeah, okay.
[01:36:29]  Oh, you could pick me up.
[01:36:30]  That's nice Yeah, because Uber's probably not gonna drop you over there He had to drive you through a zombie apocalypse to his studio When he pulls up, as soon as he gets out, they're all asking him for money.
[01:36:45]  No, you know what's so funny?
[01:36:46]  This is something I noticed.
[01:36:48]  Nobody ever asked me for money.
[01:36:50]  None of the home.
[01:36:51]  I've been to San Francisco.
[01:36:53]  I've been to.
[01:36:53]  There were like five lawyers I went to San Francisco with.
[01:36:58]  Me and one other lawyer, nobody ever asked us for money.
[01:37:02]  The other guys, they just bombarded them asking for money.
[01:37:05]  Nobody ever asked me for money.
[01:37:06]  Huh.
[01:37:07]  It was just weird.
[01:37:07]  It was like.
[01:37:08]  That is weird.
[01:37:08]  The other guys were like, how come they're always bugging me?
[01:37:10]  They're always this.
[01:37:10]  I mean, you're standing right here.
[01:37:11]  You know.
[01:37:12]  And I don't know why.
[01:37:13]  Yeah, because they're like, look at this guy.
[01:37:14]  He's coming to steal our social.
[01:37:16]  Don't even look at this guy.
[01:37:17]  Yeah, I should be like, listen, I'll make a deal.
[01:37:20]  You want to make $100?
[01:37:23]  But yeah, as soon as I got out, they started just hammering him, hammering him.
[01:37:26]  I'm just standing there, nobody saying anything to me.
[01:37:28]  And then we walk in, we go in the thing.
[01:37:30]  He locks up and puts the drapes down and everything.
[01:37:34]  I sit on the stool and I do a whole podcast with him for like an hour and a half, two hours.
[01:37:38]  I think it's got like 200,000, over, I think it's coming up on 300,000 subscribers or something like that.
[01:37:42]  Views?
[01:37:43]  Or views, views, subscribers.
[01:37:44]  Yeah.
[01:37:46]  That's wild.
[01:37:47]  It's a hold on.
[01:37:49]  So soft white underbelly cocks.
[01:37:52]  That's how you search it.
[01:37:54]  You just talk to the phone.
[01:37:55]  Of course.
[01:37:57]  There it is.
[01:37:57]  It's got 315,000 views two months ago.
[01:38:03]  Wow.
[01:38:04]  Oh, yeah.
[01:38:05]  How did you hear about him?
[01:38:06]  I look horrible.
[01:38:08]  How did you find out about that guy?
[01:38:10]  I look better than this, I think.
[01:38:11]  I feel like.
[01:38:12]  How?
[01:38:12]  Yeah.
[01:38:13]  I think it's a good portrait.
[01:38:15]  No way.
[01:38:16]  Let me see it.
[01:38:17]  Let me see it.
[01:38:18]  They should have had Luke design it.
[01:38:20]  Oh, yeah.
[01:38:21]  He tries to make you look.
[01:38:22]  Luke would have put a big head on me.
[01:38:24]  The lighting and probably some filters that he uses really accentuates the wrinkles and the details in your face.
[01:38:31]  Thank you, Danny.
[01:38:32]  Thank you.
[01:38:33]  It really undermines your plastic surgery.
[01:38:36]  I am 51.
[01:38:39]  My lighting makes you look beautiful, I think.
[01:38:41]  I do look.
[01:38:41]  Listen, I was very happy when I remember I came back and I finally came up and I saw it.
[01:38:46]  I was like, oh, I look good.
[01:38:47]  Hell yeah.
[01:38:47]  I'm not going to lie.
[01:38:48]  Danny told me.
[01:38:49]  He's like, no, you'll be fine.
[01:38:50]  You'll be fine.
[01:38:53]  No, how did you find out about that guy?
[01:38:55]  I don't know how.
[01:38:57]  Oh, Michael Franzisky?
[01:38:59]  You know what I'm talking about?
[01:39:01]  Or is it?
[01:39:01]  Yeah, Wazowski.
[01:39:03]  No, he's a famous mobster.
[01:39:05]  He made the most money out of any mobster ever.
[01:39:07]  He ran a gasoline scam or something.
[01:39:09]  Huh.
[01:39:10]  He's got a Franzisky or something like that.
[01:39:12]  Franchisee?
[01:39:13]  Is that it?
[01:39:15]  The guy who was in the mafia?
[01:39:19]  Yeah.
[01:39:20]  Who was part of that story and shit.
[01:39:22]  The guy lives in Florida?
[01:39:27]  Francis?
[01:39:28]  Francis.
[01:39:29]  Yeah.
[01:39:29]  Yeah.
[01:39:30]  Vlad does interviews with him all the time.
[01:39:32]  Really?
[01:39:32]  Oh, all the time.
[01:39:33]  He's got his own channel.
[01:39:33]  He's done multiple.
[01:39:34]  Well, Vlad chops him up one interview into like 10 videos.
[01:39:38]  Vlad's horrible.
[01:39:39]  Yeah, he does, Vlad.
[01:39:40]  Don't say that.
[01:39:41]  That's so rude.
[01:39:42]  What?
[01:39:42]  That he's horrible?
[01:39:43]  Yeah.
[01:39:44]  That's mean.
[01:39:45]  Why are you mean?
[01:39:45]  Bro, I'm not being mean.
[01:39:46]  I'm just, I did it.
[01:39:47]  Why is he horrible?
[01:39:48]  We've talked about this before, haven't we?
[01:39:49]  Because he didn't, he doesn't know the story.
[01:39:52]  He was, he big-shotted Matt in the interview.
[01:39:54]  He's not there.
[01:39:55]  Oh, yeah.
[01:39:56]  You're right.
[01:39:56]  He's on TV.
[01:39:57]  He's on a TV and he's asking me questions.
[01:39:59]  And he's like, oh, okay.
[01:40:01]  So, and then you got arrested.
[01:40:04]  And then he got up and walked away.
[01:40:06]  So I'm staring at a couch.
[01:40:08]  Do I, what happened?
[01:40:09]  Do I keep telling you?
[01:40:10]  Yeah, it's very awkward.
[01:40:11]  Yeah, I was like, well, now who am I talking to?
[01:40:14]  It was just, he did it like two or three times.
[01:40:16]  And he was like, no, just keep talking.
[01:40:17]  And got up and walked off.
[01:40:19]  Yeah.
[01:40:20]  Yeah, it's whack.
[01:40:21]  Back to what we were talking about, Mark Leda.
[01:40:23]  He was down here.
[01:40:24]  That's him.
[01:40:25]  That's Michael.
[01:40:26]  Is it Michael?
[01:40:27]  That's a Vlad thumbnail right there.
[01:40:29]  Yeah.
[01:40:31]  That's funny.
[01:40:32]  He's got, he just started his own channel.
[01:40:34]  But, um, wait, wait, hold on.
[01:40:35]  Yeah, he was part of like, he was in the movie Godfellas.
[01:40:38]  They portrayed him in Godfellas.
[01:40:40]  He's 293,000 subscribers.
[01:40:43]  Wow.
[01:40:43]  Oh, Blatt?
[01:40:44]  Oh, Mike.
[01:40:44]  He's big time.
[01:40:45]  Yeah.
[01:40:45]  That's crazy, man.
[01:40:46]  He does like Mobster Monday.
[01:40:48]  Yeah.
[01:40:48]  And he's got like a whole, he does a lot of shit.
[01:40:51]  He's famous in the mob world for sure.
[01:40:53]  Yeah.
[01:40:53]  Crime is like a big thing on the internet.
[01:40:55]  True crime.
[01:40:56]  It's a big, big niche.
[01:40:58]  Um, anyways, Mark Leda, he was down here for a week every single day filming interviews with, Pedophiles and sex offenders.
[01:41:08]  And he's like, Have you ever heard about this village over here?
[01:41:12]  I forgot what he said it was.
[01:41:14]  It's a park.
[01:41:15]  It's a trailer park.
[01:41:16]  Yeah, where all the fucking pedos live.
[01:41:18]  It's full of pedophiles.
[01:41:19]  Yeah.
[01:41:20]  And I was like, I didn't even know that was a fucking thing.
[01:41:22]  Matt was trying to fucking put money in on one.
[01:41:25]  I was telling him.
[01:41:26]  I'm like, That's what Matt was telling us about a couple weeks ago.
[01:41:28]  I didn't know.
[01:41:29]  I thought that you were like innovating that.
[01:41:31]  That was apparently a thing where they keep pedophiles.
[01:41:34]  They keep people who have been convicted of sex crimes.
[01:41:37]  They're not even being kept there.
[01:41:38]  They're.
[01:41:40]  Voluntarily living there because they just have nowhere to live.
[01:41:43]  It's like no one wants them to live in their neighborhood.
[01:41:45]  If you can't rent a normal place, if you have they do a background check on you, if you want to rent an apartment somewhere, can't be near schools or nothing, right?
[01:41:52]  So, what happens is you know, obviously, the window of where they can live gets smaller and smaller, and then those few places you go, okay, well, yeah, you could live here, yeah, but they won't rent to me, yeah, because then they go, you know, they pull your background or they do something, they go, hell no, you're fucking pedophile, right?
[01:42:08]  So, they advertise.
[01:42:10]  I don't know how they get their.
[01:42:12]  I'm sure the word gets around.
[01:42:13]  Oh, I was just thinking that.
[01:42:14]  It's all word of mouth, yeah.
[01:42:15]  The federal probation officers and state probation officers will easily try and direct them anywhere they know somebody will live.
[01:42:23]  Yeah, this is where all the pedos are living.
[01:42:26]  That's a niche in real estate.
[01:42:27]  You can open.
[01:42:28]  We might have to call Ben.
[01:42:31]  Pedophile housing.
[01:42:33]  I would love to go to Ben Mala and pitch that idea.
[01:42:37]  Wow, that would be amazing.
[01:42:38]  I can't believe I've never heard of that, though.
[01:42:40]  I mean, I can't believe it.
[01:42:41]  Because nobody wants to do it.
[01:42:42]  Who would do it?
[01:42:43]  Nobody wants to do it.
[01:42:43]  Look, and here's what really kills me is that.
[01:42:47]  The amount of money in it is huge because these guys have nowhere to go.
[01:42:53]  So they're going to pay their rent.
[01:42:55]  And the issue is that people are so passionate about not dealing with them and not helping them in any way that they don't want them to live here.
[01:43:08]  They don't want to live here.
[01:43:09]  They don't want to invest.
[01:43:09]  So you're never going to have like MI homes or post apartments or.
[01:43:18]  Nobody's going to come in and McDonaldize that and turn it into something because they just don't want.
[01:43:22]  Yeah, it's not a good look.
[01:43:23]  Most people don't want to be associated with it.
[01:43:24]  They don't want to be associated with it.
[01:43:26]  Even though the truth is, by not giving them a place to stay, you're causing them more anxiety and thereby causing them more of a chance to reoffend.
[01:43:38]  Yeah.
[01:43:39]  So because their anxiety level is up, their stress level is up, and you're not monitoring them.
[01:43:45]  So you don't know where they're at.
[01:43:46]  Yeah.
[01:43:46]  I think Mark actually told me that out of all.
[01:43:50]  Released, all convicted felons or whatever.
[01:43:53]  Sex offenders are the one type of criminal who is least likely to reoffend right well, everybody says it's actually murders are the least murders um, but then it's like, it's like pedophiles.
[01:44:06]  Now the people will tell you, oh, they always reoffend.
[01:44:08]  They actually do reoffend, but they don't reoffend for sex crimes.
[01:44:14]  They end up reoffending for things like theft or really drugs right, drugs.
[01:44:20]  Because here's what happens is You can't get a job.
[01:44:24]  So they're not out doing, you know, touching a kid necessarily, but they commit another crime.
[01:44:28]  Why?
[01:44:28]  Because I can't get a job because I have no place to live.
[01:44:30]  So I'm a victim of the system now.
[01:44:32]  Right now.
[01:44:33]  Right.
[01:44:33]  And nobody has a sex offender form.
[01:44:35]  You can't, you know.
[01:44:35]  Another thing Mark was explaining to me is that, like, there's so much nuance in the term sex offender.
[01:44:40]  Right.
[01:44:40]  Like, he said a lot of them are just people that were in the club and were wasted, met the wrong girl and didn't know their age or whatever.
[01:44:48]  And the next morning she was like, oh, my God.
[01:44:52]  Fucking called the cops on this guy, and now he's a sex offender for life and can't rent an apartment.
[01:44:56]  Yeah, they're not all child molesters, right?
[01:45:00]  Yeah, even though a lot of them do a lot of fucked up.
[01:45:02]  Oh, there's some super fucking weirdos, bro.

=== Sex Offender System Nuances (04:04) ===

[01:45:05]  But it's just insane that this guy is flying across the country on his own dime.
[01:45:09]  He also said none of his videos are monetized.
[01:45:12]  Well, he, I think his channel's monetized, but nobody wants to.
[01:45:16]  Who wants to?
[01:45:17]  If you're a business, hey, go ahead and put me on the right channel with that prostitute, right?
[01:45:22]  Hey, you know, the guy that talked to that heroin addict the other day, right?
[01:45:25]  And that pimp.
[01:45:26]  Definitely get me on a Coca Cola ad on that guy.
[01:45:29]  Yeah, that's not happening.
[01:45:30]  No, so it's funny, but that's what's interesting about it is that he still is throwing so much of his time and money into these videos, flying across the country to interview whatever.
[01:45:39]  He interviewed probably 20 sex offenders down here, like a mile from here.
[01:45:43]  But that's not all he did.
[01:45:44]  I mean, that makes it sound really fucked up.
[01:45:47]  It is really fucked up.
[01:45:48]  Right, but no, I'm saying most of his stuff is like people on Skid Row.
[01:45:52]  Like there's prostitutes, there's heroin addicts, there's drug dealers, there's pimps, there's meth addicts.
[01:45:58]  So he's going after a segment of society that.
[01:46:01]  That kind of the same thing you told me when we first met, remember?
[01:46:05]  And I was like, why do you do this?
[01:46:07]  Why do you do the podcast?
[01:46:08]  And you go, there's just a whole segment of society that doesn't have a voice.
[01:46:12]  And I thought it'd be cool to set up a format where people had like a voice.
[01:46:17]  And then you started telling me about deck hands.
[01:46:20]  You were like, I do this thing called deck hands.
[01:46:22]  This was like over a year ago.
[01:46:23]  Yeah.
[01:46:23]  Do this thing called deck hands.
[01:46:24]  And you're like, and I'm like, yeah, but they're all like drug addicts and stuff.
[01:46:27]  And you were like, well, yeah, but a lot of them are endearing.
[01:46:30]  Like you seemed, I remember you seemed at that moment, I remember when I left there, I was like, he's really passionate about that.
[01:46:36]  He's really passionate.
[01:46:36]  You're not, now I know you're just kind of a dickhead.
[01:46:38]  But at that point, I was very impressed with you for about two months.
[01:46:42]  And then I got to know you.
[01:46:43]  And then, you know, then I realized this guy.
[01:46:46]  This fucker.
[01:46:47]  He had me with the deck hands.
[01:46:49]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:46:50]  Danny.
[01:46:51]  Sales pitch work.
[01:46:52]  Right.
[01:46:52]  It was great.
[01:46:53]  You got me for another part.
[01:46:54]  No, it is.
[01:46:55]  What I did with deck hands is almost the same thing that he's doing, minus all the music and editing.
[01:47:00]  He just does like a raw, uncut interview.
[01:47:02]  His is, yeah, I was going to say.
[01:47:04]  He's actually making me want to do more deck hands style things just by like getting to know him and watching his content.
[01:47:11]  It's like really inspired me, I think, to go back and do some of that stuff.
[01:47:14]  Yeah, his, and he's the cinematography.
[01:47:18]  is really good.
[01:47:18]  But they're really, yeah, but it's no Danny Jones film.
[01:47:22]  I don't know.
[01:47:23]  I mean, I don't know what it takes to do that, but I like it.
[01:47:26]  He's using a studio with lighting.
[01:47:28]  He's got different camera angles.
[01:47:29]  It's got a very good look.
[01:47:30]  Yeah, very cinematic looking.
[01:47:32]  But they're on tripods, right?
[01:47:34]  All the cameras are just locked off on tripods.
[01:47:36]  There's not like anything moving.
[01:47:37]  He actually, one of the one on the ground, he actually like laid on the ground.
[01:47:43]  I mean, it's off the ground like this, and it's shooting up at you, and he's laying on the ground looking the whole time going, what about this?
[01:47:51]  The whole time he was laying on, on really, yeah.
[01:47:54]  And the place is disgusting.
[01:47:56]  He says he uses it as a storage unit to store like furniture and stuff.
[01:47:59]  There's stuff, there's tons of it, but he's got the you can't see all that because he's got these massive drapes.
[01:48:03]  And those, those drapes are well, they're not drapes.
[01:48:05]  What are they called?
[01:48:06]  Curtains.
[01:48:06]  Are they?
[01:48:07]  Oh, I thought there was some kind of like the backdrop to the cloth or whatever black back, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:12]  But they're super thick and they go up like 20 feet.
[01:48:16]  I mean, they're massive.
[01:48:16]  Is that how tall the ceiling is in that room?
[01:48:18]  Yeah, wow, and everything's concrete.
[01:48:20]  I mean, it's it's a storage unit.
[01:48:21]  It's like it's um.
[01:48:24]  Yeah, but it's it's and I remember he he actually had to run around the place like he was like You know listening and listening he goes just give me a come up here.
[01:48:32]  I'll find out and I was like what is it there was a cricket that was in there somewhere and he was trying to track down the cricket really you think he would just like let it roll like I couldn't yeah, you don't mind the guys in the background screaming on the outside You know yelling at each other over a crack rocket or the the sirens going by but the crickets bothering yeah, that's weird, right?
[01:48:51]  Yeah, he's a very nice guy very passionate.
[01:48:54]  You know a lot of that guy a lot of those people He actually set up like Patreon accounts and stuff for them to try and help them.
[01:49:03]  Oh, yeah.
[01:49:03]  He told me about one of the prostitutes.
[01:49:05]  He just tried to help her.
[01:49:06]  Try and get her off the street, trying this, trying that.
[01:49:08]  It was like.
[01:49:09]  Yeah.

=== Helping Prostitutes Off The Street (15:06) ===

[01:49:10]  He said he reduced everything.
[01:49:12]  He says he's done over like 2,500 interviews with these drug addicts and prostitutes and pimps and all these crazy people.
[01:49:18]  Did he tell you about the girlfriend?
[01:49:20]  I think I told you about the girlfriend.
[01:49:22]  He broke up with a girlfriend because she was saying, you have to start.
[01:49:28]  Cut back on the interviews and start spending more time with I think it was oh he told me the story about his first wife No, this was a girlfriend because this was another one Okay, well, I don't know about the wife This was one that had just happened yeah when I was there and she was like look just drop back a little bit so you can spend more time with me and he said I Can't do that and she's like well then we're gonna have to stop seeing each other.
[01:49:49]  He's like okay and she's like He's like he's maniacally he's a maniac with how obsessed he is obsessed with it.
[01:49:57]  He it's all he does every day all day from sun up to sundown, but here's the thing about that But the world needs guys like that.
[01:50:06]  Does that make sense?
[01:50:06]  I'm not going to do it.
[01:50:08]  It's not going to be me.
[01:50:09]  Me neither.
[01:50:09]  But the world needs somebody to join the Peace Corps.
[01:50:13]  I'm not doing it.
[01:50:15]  Yeah.
[01:50:15]  But God bless those people.
[01:50:17]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:50:18]  But it ain't going to be me.
[01:50:19]  No.
[01:50:19]  But I want those people to be there.
[01:50:21]  Yeah.
[01:50:22]  So, and he's that guy.
[01:50:24]  He says that out of the 2,500 plus interviews that he's done, he said the one common denominator with all of them is just fucked up childhoods, just like loser parents.
[01:50:34]  Sure.
[01:50:34]  Sure.
[01:50:35]  You know, he told me after he interviewed me, he goes, after he interviewed me, he said, Yeah, I'm definitely going to use this.
[01:50:42]  I'm definitely using this.
[01:50:43]  This is amazing.
[01:50:43]  This is a great interview.
[01:50:44]  Oh, yeah, he throws a lot of them away.
[01:50:45]  Yeah.
[01:50:45]  And I looked at him and I went, Were you not?
[01:50:48]  Was that possible you weren't going to use it?
[01:50:49]  And he goes, And he looked at me and he goes, Oh, yeah.
[01:50:53]  He said, I'll interview five, six, seven people and maybe use one.
[01:50:56]  And I went, Yeah, he's it.
[01:50:58]  He goes, Yeah, he goes, Yeah, I didn't want to mention that in case I wasn't going to use it, but yours is great.
[01:51:02]  And I was thinking, Fuck the hell.
[01:51:05]  And the amount of money that he pays a lot of people, too.
[01:51:07]  Like a lot of people, like he told me, some of these sex offenders, like they don't want to tell, they don't want to air out that.
[01:51:12]  Like the, how they touched their kids when they were, oh man, and he gets these, gets these people to like full on confess well, I mean, I can see.
[01:51:22]  This is what's so funny is I can see saying something in this format that you wouldn't say in everyday life, because at that level you're never going to get this opportunity again.
[01:51:34]  Like your life, is that just down to nothing?
[01:51:38]  Yeah, and if someone is finally saying to you, despite everything you've done, your story is important and I want to document it, what do you do?
[01:51:46]  Do you try and spin it?
[01:51:47]  There's no way to spin.
[01:51:49]  You're a heroin addict, because you're only here, because you're a sex offender.
[01:51:53]  You're going to have to say that.
[01:51:56]  It's meaningful.
[01:51:58]  It's meaningful for them.
[01:51:59]  For them, for some of them, I'm sure they just finally admit to stuff they probably have been denying their entire life.
[01:52:04]  Plus, they're getting a fat wad of cash.
[01:52:07]  They are.
[01:52:08]  I didn't get any.
[01:52:12]  He's an amazing guy.
[01:52:13]  Super cool guy.
[01:52:14]  I can't wait to.
[01:52:16]  What about the CIA guy?
[01:52:17]  I got a CIA guy.
[01:52:18]  Did you call him?
[01:52:19]  Yeah.
[01:52:19]  He's going to come on the podcast.
[01:52:21]  He's coming on.
[01:52:22]  He's so cool.
[01:52:23]  He lives in St. Pete.
[01:52:23]  He should be, I don't know what he's ever done.
[01:52:26]  Probably he's never done it.
[01:52:27]  He's probably sat behind a desk his whole life.
[01:52:28]  No, I'm just joking.
[01:52:30]  He's actually like a field guy or was a field guy.
[01:52:33]  But you look at this guy, you'll see when you look at him, he looks like what you think a CIA agent should look like.
[01:52:39]  Really?
[01:52:41]  He could be anything.
[01:52:42]  He could be white.
[01:52:43]  He could be Middle Eastern.
[01:52:45]  He could be Spanish.
[01:52:47]  He could be Italian.
[01:52:48]  Wait till you see this guy.
[01:52:49]  You're going to be like, I don't know what nationality you are.
[01:52:55]  I think he speaks a bunch of different languages.
[01:52:57]  He's extremely articulate, good looking.
[01:53:00]  I mean, I'm telling you, he'd get all the secrets out of you.
[01:53:03]  Hell yeah.
[01:53:04]  It's so funny.
[01:53:05]  Out of all the people Matt tries to introduce me to, all these people, he always finds a way to throw in the fact that this person is good looking.
[01:53:13]  Oh, man, this dude is so good looking.
[01:53:16]  You need to have him on the podcast because he's fucking good looking.
[01:53:18]  I'm trying to help you out.
[01:53:19]  I've never said beautiful.
[01:53:22]  Throw beautiful in the.
[01:53:23]  I reached out and I just touched his face.
[01:53:25]  He had soft skin.
[01:53:28]  There was a chick in Coleman, in commissary.
[01:53:32]  They called her commissary Barbie because she was this blonde and she sat behind the window.
[01:53:37]  She was the meanest snake.
[01:53:39]  She'd always be yelling, get someone.
[01:53:41]  No, I'm not doing that.
[01:53:42]  Can you return this?
[01:53:43]  I don't want this ice cream.
[01:53:44]  That's all you get.
[01:53:45]  I mean, she yelled.
[01:53:46]  And I remember this one inmate one time, she was yelling and he goes, shh.
[01:53:51]  And he put the thing right up against the plastic.
[01:53:53]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:53:54]  Can't touch her.
[01:53:54]  She's behind plastic.
[01:53:57]  And she goes, Get him out of here.
[01:54:00]  We were dying laughing.
[01:54:02]  You had to be there, bro.
[01:54:03]  So funny.
[01:54:05]  Oh, my God.
[01:54:06]  Yo, what were you and Boziak doing?
[01:54:08]  You sent me all that.
[01:54:09]  Can you talk about, you sent me a bunch of videos of you were hanging out in some sort of mansion in Jacksonville.
[01:54:13]  It's pretty cool, bro.
[01:54:15]  It's pretty cool.
[01:54:15]  Matt's like living on the high horse, right?
[01:54:18]  He is.
[01:54:19]  He deserves it.
[01:54:21]  Just that there's a production company that actually contacted me.
[01:54:26]  I don't want to get specific.
[01:54:27]  I was told not to get specific on certain things.
[01:54:30]  So there was a production company that contacted me on another story.
[01:54:36]  Once we reviewed the story, the producer came back and she was like, okay.
[01:54:43]  You know, what are the chances I can get this guy on film?
[01:54:46]  And I was like, you can't.
[01:54:47]  That's what that was a big problem.
[01:54:48]  I was like, look, you understand you're a documentary company or you're doing documentaries.
[01:54:51]  I said, you understand you can't get this guy on film.
[01:54:52]  He's in federal prison.
[01:54:53]  It's just, oh, no, I can get in there and get him.
[01:54:55]  I said, no, you can't.
[01:54:56]  No, no, we've done it before.
[01:54:57]  I said, no, you've done it in the state.
[01:54:58]  Who are they trying to get?
[01:55:01]  Donovan Davis, remember?
[01:55:03]  The Gap?
[01:55:04]  Yeah.
[01:55:04]  So they were looking into it and she was telling me, no, I can do it.
[01:55:08]  I said, no, you cannot.
[01:55:10]  You cannot get a video camera.
[01:55:13]  Into a federal prison.
[01:55:14]  And so once she looked into it, she came back.
[01:55:16]  She goes, You know what?
[01:55:16]  You're right.
[01:55:17]  I can't.
[01:55:18]  She goes, I went to your website, though, and I looked at some of the other stories.
[01:55:20]  What do you think, like, the top three, four best stories are?
[01:55:23]  And I named off a few of them.
[01:55:24]  I said, But one of the best ones I think is either Frank Amadeo, which you may or may not get as cooperation.
[01:55:30]  I said, Or John Boziak, which is a story called Bent, which is on my website, Matt Cox Inside True Crime.
[01:55:38]  It'll be linked in the description.
[01:55:40]  So I told her, and so she went and she listened to that.
[01:55:43]  And she's like, this story is amazing.
[01:55:45]  She sent it to her director.
[01:55:46]  Not linking shit in the description.
[01:55:47]  Then she contacted.
[01:55:49]  Then she ordered his book.
[01:55:51]  Then she read the book.
[01:55:52]  Then she came back and she said, Can I talk to Boziak?
[01:55:55]  I said, Sure, here's his information.
[01:55:57]  She contacts Boziak.
[01:55:58]  Whatever, like a month or two later, Boziak calls me and says, You know, I've talked to these people two or three times.
[01:56:02]  And I was like, Really?
[01:56:04]  He goes, Yeah, they want to do all this kind of stuff.
[01:56:06]  I think you should call them because I have a contract with them.
[01:56:10]  I own the intellectual property.
[01:56:13]  For his story.
[01:56:14]  Yeah.
[01:56:14]  So you're not talking to Boziak unless I'm involved.
[01:56:17]  So I ended up calling her and saying, hey, look, you know, this and this.
[01:56:19]  She's like, oh, okay, yeah, well, I'm sure John will keep you informed.
[01:56:24]  And I was like, welcome to Hollywood, Matt Cox.
[01:56:26]  Yeah.
[01:56:26]  Well, I was like, no, no, you don't understand.
[01:56:27]  I said, I have a contract with him.
[01:56:29]  I own the intellectual property for the story.
[01:56:31]  So go ahead.
[01:56:32]  Have your lawyer call our lawyer.
[01:56:33]  And she was like, oh, wait a sec.
[01:56:35]  I, okay, of course.
[01:56:36]  I didn't know.
[01:56:36]  I wasn't trying to do anything.
[01:56:38]  No.
[01:56:38]  Right.
[01:56:39]  She was like, she's like, okay.
[01:56:40]  So she's like, oh, here's what's happening.
[01:56:42]  So, They were put together a whole thing and she's super cool too.
[01:56:46]  I'm not I'm just fucking around mostly kind of But so what happened was they they ended up renting like they love the idea right of doing a like a one-hour What they call it they called it a pilot what no sizzle no, they did a sizzle so they did us that's what they did at the mansion.
[01:57:08]  They rented this mansion They flew in all their crew Their crew read the book.
[01:57:14]  They bought the book and ordered the book and had all the crew That they typically work with.
[01:57:19]  And then they asked the crew to donate their time.
[01:57:22]  And they said, look, if we end up selling it, we'll hire you.
[01:57:26]  But as of right now, we need you to just donate your time.
[01:57:29]  They all donated their time.
[01:57:30]  Wow.
[01:57:31]  Which I thought was a mate, right?
[01:57:32]  Right?
[01:57:32]  Yeah.
[01:57:34]  Well, you really take a page out of their book, Matt.
[01:57:36]  I'm telling you.
[01:57:38]  So they all come down.
[01:57:40]  Inside true crime.
[01:57:41]  They all come down and they shoot the video for five days.
[01:57:46]  They shoot the sizzle reel and they're going to.
[01:57:48]  Cut all that up, but they basically got the bulk of the interviews done for him.
[01:57:55]  So they would turn that into, and they'll still have to interview him some more, but they basically would turn that into like a one hour, 50, I think he said 52 minute documentary, but like a docudrama where they'll do reenactments.
[01:58:09]  Yeah.
[01:58:11]  And it was just super cool.
[01:58:13]  What was super cool about it was this that guy, like the vision that he had for the whole thing was so, it was like everything that I would want it to be that I couldn't even imagine.
[01:58:26]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:58:27]  It's like, it's kind of like how like, like, like Steve Jobs, like I didn't know I couldn't live without an iPhone until Steve Jobs told me I could, you know, just showed me why I couldn't.
[01:58:36]  I mean, that's how I, like I watched that video.
[01:58:38]  I was like, that is everything I wanted it to be and 10 times more than I could have imagined.
[01:58:44]  I mean, just the guy is, the guy has a great vision for the whole thing and it's so over the top gaudy, but it looks amazing.
[01:58:50]  He looks great.
[01:58:51]  Can I see it?
[01:58:52]  Well, I mean, as soon as they sent it to me, I only got to see little bits and pieces like they were working on it and the music and everything about it was cool.
[01:58:58]  They just showed you like on the laptop or whatever.
[01:59:00]  Yeah, he showed me on like they have doing it.
[01:59:01]  They had those red cameras.
[01:59:03]  Yeah.
[01:59:03]  So they had the, and they're like $40,000, $50,000 a piece.
[01:59:06]  They had like three of those.
[01:59:06]  They have scaffolding.
[01:59:07]  It was amazing.
[01:59:08]  So they're putting the whole thing together.
[01:59:10]  And then if they end up eventually, you know, selling it to a streaming network of some sort, then they'll turn it into like a one hour thing with reenactments and everything.
[01:59:17]  So it was just super cool.
[01:59:18]  And I was up there and I'm an executive producer.
[01:59:21]  I don't know what that means.
[01:59:22]  Hell yeah.
[01:59:22]  I'm sure your contract looks a lot like the contract that the federal government gave your lawyer friend.
[01:59:28]  We'll consider it.
[01:59:30]  We'll consider it.
[01:59:31]  Hey, give us some money.
[01:59:32]  If we sell it to Netflix, we'll consider it.
[01:59:35]  We'll have Devorelli consider your payment.
[01:59:37]  Trust me, that's what a lot of the Hollywood contracts look like.
[01:59:40]  Yeah, it was pretty cool.
[01:59:41]  It was a cool experience.
[01:59:42]  I was glad I went, and I'm hoping they do something with it.
[01:59:44]  And John was there, and John, he was loving it.
[01:59:49]  He was loving it, but he said some crazy shit.
[01:59:54]  They would ask him the same questions over and over and over, and then he eventually would say something just nutty, and they'd be like, that's perfect.
[02:00:01]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:00:02]  They'd finally get him to say some juicy shit.
[02:00:04]  Something nuts, yeah.
[02:00:05]  Yeah.
[02:00:06]  But yeah, it was super cool.
[02:00:07]  I find it so funny though, they're just like, hey, Cox, what's your top three stories that people click on?
[02:00:12]  We want to try to sell some Netflix shows.
[02:00:14]  We want to try to sell some shows to fucking Star or whatever.
[02:00:17]  That's the process is so oh, it's yeah, it's and that's not the first.
[02:00:24]  Obviously, I had a bunch of stuff going before COVID, but it didn't happen.
[02:00:27]  And I'm still working on it.
[02:00:28]  They're just betting at this point.
[02:00:30]  They're just fucking betting on something that they can sell.
[02:00:32]  They're basically salespeople.
[02:00:34]  Right.
[02:00:34]  Well, here's the thing, though.
[02:00:37]  The fact that the crew what was great about the crew, too, was like the crew.
[02:00:41]  Like, when I got there, they're like enamored with me.
[02:00:44]  Like, they've all watched it.
[02:00:45]  It's like you're a celebrity, you walk in.
[02:00:47]  I know, and you know, I'm just some douchebag.
[02:00:49]  Like, I'm nobody.
[02:00:50]  But I walk in, they're all like, You're not a douchebag.
[02:00:52]  They're all like, Oh, fuck Matt Cox.
[02:00:54]  There he is.
[02:00:55]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:00:56]  Was it really?
[02:00:57]  That wasn't that bad.
[02:00:58]  But they were like, I'd start talking, and like four of them would be like, And they'd be like, Well, then what happened?
[02:01:04]  And when you were in the prison, were you worried?
[02:01:06]  No.
[02:01:06]  Yeah.
[02:01:07]  It was a low.
[02:01:08]  I was fine.
[02:01:09]  So, Oh, so nobody gets hurt there?
[02:01:10]  Oh, no, people get hurt, but if you get stabbed in federal prison, it's because you had it coming.
[02:01:15]  And then Boziak, he says crazy shit, and they all love him.
[02:01:19]  They loved him.
[02:01:20]  They just thought he was keep in mind, these are guys that are like upper middle class kids.
[02:01:24]  Right.
[02:01:24]  They never touch anything from that world.
[02:01:26]  They've never changed a tire.
[02:01:28]  Yeah.
[02:01:29]  So they got decent grades at the private school.
[02:01:31]  Then they ended up going to film school because they want to make movies, and now they're part of the thing, and they're working their way up.
[02:01:37]  So, you know, they've never they've never run from the cops.
[02:01:41]  They've never been arrested.
[02:01:42]  They've never gone to prison.
[02:01:43]  They've never done this.
[02:01:44]  They've never committed crimes.
[02:01:45]  They've never borrowed a million dollars or swiped credit cards or manufactured this or gotten fake IDs.
[02:01:53]  They've never done nothing.
[02:01:54]  James Bond shit.
[02:01:55]  They've never done none of it.
[02:01:56]  So they just think you're amazing.
[02:01:58]  So, yeah, it was pretty cool.
[02:02:00]  So here's what I'm doing.
[02:02:02]  Remember I told you the paintings?
[02:02:03]  I'm doing 12 paintings.
[02:02:05]  Yeah.
[02:02:05]  10 of them are for.
[02:02:07]  For your Patreon?
[02:02:08]  No, no.
[02:02:09]  10 of them are for the crew.
[02:02:14]  Oh.
[02:02:14]  So I'm painting each one of them.
[02:02:15]  I'm going to send them a painting.
[02:02:16]  And it says Ghetto White Boy, which is what they were calling.
[02:02:19]  They're calling the Sizzle Reel.
[02:02:21]  And then it has half of Boziak's mugshot.
[02:02:24]  And they're all All of them are like crazy colors, like real neon colors.
[02:02:28]  And then the other two, one of those is for the Patreon, right?
[02:02:32]  So, one for the Patreon guy that I owe the Patreon thing to.
[02:02:36]  And then the other one, then I'll have one other one.
[02:02:38]  I'll probably just sell that one.
[02:02:39]  Or I'd love to frame it and keep it myself, but, you know, the bills are coming.
[02:02:46]  But I thought I could knock it out in two days, and I'm on like day four.
[02:02:49]  And it's like, this is way more than I thought, than I had expected.
[02:02:53]  So, it's pretty cool.
[02:02:54]  It's going to be pretty cool.
[02:02:54]  Maybe we get a Matt Cox painting to replace this thing we got at the flea market.
[02:02:58]  I could knock out some.
[02:02:59]  We could get, you need to get a Matt Cox painting for the studio here?
[02:03:02]  No.
[02:03:03]  You know why you could?
[02:03:04]  No, I don't think we could do that.
[02:03:06]  I mean, I'm just telling you, you know why you could?
[02:03:08]  How?
[02:03:08]  How could I do that?
[02:03:09]  Because I actually have a bunch of canvases that some friend of my friend Stacy, remember the chick?
[02:03:16]  Stacy, you met Stacy.
[02:03:17]  Yeah.
[02:03:17]  Okay.
[02:03:18]  Stacy has a client that retired and he wants to be an artist.
[02:03:22]  He bought a bunch of canvases and painted on them.
[02:03:24]  Yeah.
[02:03:25]  But he's kind of learning and he realized that he didn't really like these types of canvases.
[02:03:29]  He wants to go with canvas board.
[02:03:31]  So he's got these canvases that basically have some primer and stuff on them.
[02:03:35]  He doesn't want them.
[02:03:36]  He gave them to me.
[02:03:37]  So he gave them to me.
[02:03:38]  Oh, perfect.
[02:03:38]  So I have canvases that I can go and do something real quick, like in a day and knock out.
[02:03:43]  Oh, nice.
[02:03:45]  I wouldn't charge you anything because it'd be advertising.
[02:03:47]  But I could do that because the problem is, if I have a painting and sell it for 500 bucks and it's four foot by three foot, I'd probably have 100 bucks into it.
[02:03:56]  Yeah.
[02:03:57]  People don't realize that.
[02:03:57]  Oh, you just made 500 bucks.
[02:03:58]  No, I didn't.
[02:03:59]  Yeah.
[02:04:00]  Plus, I had to go drive there.
[02:04:01]  I had to get the thing.
[02:04:01]  I had to come back and ship it.
[02:04:02]  Right.
[02:04:03]  What the hell?
[02:04:04]  So, but yeah, I have those things.
[02:04:05]  I could do something that says concrete on it.
[02:04:07]  Yeah, that'd be cool.
[02:04:08]  Or do something cool.
[02:04:09]  I could do something I could do.
[02:04:10]  I could do something like with the thing where I do like half of Danny's face and it says like concrete or something.

=== Medical Cards And Panic Attacks (03:39) ===

[02:04:16]  Snitch.
[02:04:16]  Snitch.
[02:04:17]  Rat.
[02:04:17]  It's like a half Danny, half rat.
[02:04:19]  Half rat.
[02:04:20]  That would be perfect.
[02:04:22]  Oh, fuck.
[02:04:22]  We could do Ben, a silhouette of Ben in the background with the belly.
[02:04:27]  Oh, yeah.
[02:04:28]  Ben is Santa, Danny sitting on his knee.
[02:04:30]  Ben is Santa in the background, Ben like this in the back, with the eye.
[02:04:34]  With the rat sitting on his lap.
[02:04:35]  With the big belly of the rat sitting on his.
[02:04:38]  On his shoulder, what about just one on his stomach?
[02:04:40]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:04:41]  Oh, now I'm not doing all that, it's terrifying.
[02:04:44]  It also sounds like a lot of work, sounds like something I want in here.
[02:04:47]  I'm thinking, half Danny's face, I'm thinking that concrete.
[02:04:49]  I'm thinking, nah, nah, I don't want to say concrete, that's that's kind of corny.
[02:04:54]  Why don't you just get concrete?
[02:04:57]  Yeah, but that I don't know, I don't want the concrete on there.
[02:04:59]  Make something up.
[02:05:01]  What about the create?
[02:05:02]  I want you to get super stoned.
[02:05:03]  We kind of just want to paint it.
[02:05:05]  He's on probation, I don't get stoned anyway.
[02:05:07]  You can't smoke weed, god damn it.
[02:05:09]  I what if you get your medical card.
[02:05:11]  You could probably get a pass.
[02:05:13]  I got a pass when I was on probation for that.
[02:05:15]  But you have like a medical issue.
[02:05:16]  You really have.
[02:05:17]  No, you don't.
[02:05:18]  You just walk in there and say that you have a problem sleeping.
[02:05:22]  For real?
[02:05:22]  No, I know.
[02:05:23]  I'm not saying it's not.
[02:05:25]  Matt's not a weed guy anyway.
[02:05:26]  I'm not a weed.
[02:05:27]  I don't drink.
[02:05:27]  I don't drink.
[02:05:28]  Have you ever tried smoking weed?
[02:05:30]  No.
[02:05:30]  Matt's more of like a CBD guy.
[02:05:32]  Yeah, but he should try smoking weed, don't you think?
[02:05:34]  You know, the only thing I've ever really tried.
[02:05:35]  I mean, I'm going to suggest that to everybody.
[02:05:37]  Oh, yeah.
[02:05:38]  Only thing I've ever done is take Xanax, but I had a prescription.
[02:05:42]  For him.
[02:05:42]  Yeah.
[02:05:43]  Now you're talking his language.
[02:05:45]  But I mean, I had a script.
[02:05:46]  Like, I literally was having panic attacks.
[02:05:47]  This is when I was committing fraud.
[02:05:49]  I'm having panic attacks.
[02:05:50]  Like, don't say anything.
[02:05:51]  Get your medical card.
[02:05:52]  Hey, I'm telling you.
[02:05:53]  Zans to keep you off the edge.
[02:05:54]  This will be probably the greatest podcast of all time, the most viewed podcast we've ever done.
[02:05:59]  If you got your medical card and we just got super baked on a podcast together, it would be fucking amazing.
[02:06:06]  You know what I. You're going to get me locked up.
[02:06:10]  And you do live paintings.
[02:06:12]  Live paintings.
[02:06:14]  Imagine where it takes your artistry to another level.
[02:06:16]  It just gives you a whole new perspective.
[02:06:18]  You know what would take your artistry is like LSD.
[02:06:21]  Oh, yeah.
[02:06:21]  They say that it completely rewires your brain.
[02:06:25]  Yeah.
[02:06:26]  Yeah.
[02:06:26]  All the.
[02:06:27]  The big artists used to do that.
[02:06:28]  Well, the most famous Renaissance era artists were super alcoholics, weren't they?
[02:06:35]  Like Van Gogh and Picasso.
[02:06:37]  Those guys had a lot of problems.
[02:06:39]  But like Dolly, he was definitely an LSD guy.
[02:06:42]  I haven't posted.
[02:06:43]  I'm going to post this when I get back.
[02:06:45]  Probably tomorrow.
[02:06:47]  I talk about scams with the money.
[02:06:52]  I haven't released it yet.
[02:06:55]  But I'm talking all about scams.
[02:06:57]  I was thinking that might be.
[02:06:59]  That I was, I told you that I thought that would be cool to get like just Boziak, like you get Boziak, me, and another fucking scam artist or con artist, yeah, and just sit here and talk about different scams for two or three hours.
[02:07:10]  Like, well, how would you get this?
[02:07:11]  Like, I was telling Boziak, like, he was like, oh, you do this or do that.
[02:07:14]  I go, where would you get the cards ordered?
[02:07:15]  Where would they get?
[02:07:16]  And he'd go, oh, I just have them mailed here.
[02:07:17]  I'm like, yeah, but what if this happens?
[02:07:18]  What if that happens?
[02:07:19]  He'd be like, well, yeah, well, where would you have them mailed?
[02:07:22]  Like, well, I'd go and I'd get an abandoned house, and I would, you know, so we'd have this whole open discussion about how do you figure out this?
[02:07:28]  How do you figure that out?
[02:07:29]  Weren't you worried about that?
[02:07:30]  Well, no, here's why.
[02:07:32]  But I think because those types of discussions I had when I was in prison with other con men, we're not talking about for 20 minutes.
[02:07:40]  We're not talking about for two or three.
[02:07:41]  We're talking about days.
[02:07:43]  We're talking about, yeah, 100 hours over the course of two weeks, like five hours here, eight hours here, 10 hours here.
[02:07:48]  Really?
[02:07:48]  Well, how would you do this?
[02:07:49]  Well, I'd do this.
[02:07:50]  Well, what happens if they call here?
[02:07:51]  Oh, no, no, no.
[02:07:52]  I would get a such and such and do this and do it.
[02:07:54]  Well, yeah, but they check it against this.

=== Ted Bundy Breakouts Revealed (06:27) ===

[02:07:56]  Oh, no, no.
[02:07:56]  I would register it with the director.
[02:07:58]  You're like, man, I never thought about that.
[02:08:01]  Hell yeah.
[02:08:01]  I mean, we would go on and on.
[02:08:04]  On and there were guys would come and sit, just sit around us and listen.
[02:08:07]  Hell yeah, have you seen the?
[02:08:09]  Uh, I just watched the other day.
[02:08:10]  Have you seen the, the movie they made about Ted Bundy?
[02:08:14]  You know what's with Zach?
[02:08:15]  With Zach Efron?
[02:08:18]  No, but you know what's funny?
[02:08:19]  Two people watched this.
[02:08:21]  What, how did?
[02:08:22]  It's probably you.
[02:08:23]  You probably watched it it.
[02:08:25]  No, when I was on it was still processing.
[02:08:26]  When I left the house, I just checked it to see if it had finished processing or uploading it.
[02:08:31]  And it has.
[02:08:32]  Huh, two people.
[02:08:32]  Somebody got the notification.
[02:08:34]  Who has access to your Youtube channel?
[02:08:37]  Somebody has like permission.
[02:08:39]  Yeah, he saw it.
[02:08:41]  Really?
[02:08:41]  He never did.
[02:08:41]  He probably watched it.
[02:08:43]  Oh, okay.
[02:08:44]  Twice?
[02:08:45]  Maybe.
[02:08:46]  Maybe he sent it to somebody.
[02:08:47]  Maybe he sent it.
[02:08:47]  Yeah.
[02:08:48]  Okay, that's crazy.
[02:08:51]  Yeah.
[02:08:51]  You got to watch the scams.
[02:08:53]  Scams.
[02:08:54]  No, yeah, that Ted Bundy fucking thing on Netflix.
[02:08:57]  I forget what it's called, but the Zach Efron.
[02:08:59]  Zach Efron plays Ted Bundy and he's his own lawyer.
[02:09:02]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:09:04]  He's fucking really cunning and smart and witty and it reminded me of you because he represented himself.
[02:09:09]  Well, the worst thing about him was that If you've ever seen any interviews with him, how likable he was.
[02:09:15]  Right.
[02:09:15]  People loved him.
[02:09:16]  That's what they all say, yeah.
[02:09:17]  And you would have loved him.
[02:09:18]  He was super handsome.
[02:09:20]  There you go.
[02:09:21]  Girls love him.
[02:09:21]  Can we get him on the podcast?
[02:09:22]  I constantly dream about just if I could just rub my hands through your hair just once.
[02:09:26]  He had like groupy girls in the courtroom when he was ridiculous.
[02:09:32]  And this guy murdered, I mean, how many people?
[02:09:35]  20, 30.
[02:09:37]  And he was with, he had a wife who had a daughter, a young daughter.
[02:09:41]  And they had like a.
[02:09:41]  Ted Bundy had a wife?
[02:09:42]  I don't know.
[02:09:43]  Yeah, I don't remember that.
[02:09:44]  I don't think he was actually married, but he had a very long term girlfriend who already had a daughter and he had like a great life with them.
[02:09:49]  He would always just go on these vacations.
[02:09:51]  He would always be like, I don't remember that.
[02:09:53]  I don't remember that.
[02:09:54]  This was at least in the movie that I saw.
[02:09:56]  Okay, I'll watch the movie.
[02:09:57]  Yeah, I remember he got married in jail and shit.
[02:09:58]  He had sex with her in jail and then she got burned.
[02:10:02]  No, no, that was a different girl.
[02:10:03]  That was a previous girlfriend, but he met this girl at a bar, walked up to her, and basically took her home first night.
[02:10:13]  He slept at her house.
[02:10:14]  She woke up the next morning and he's in the kitchen cooking breakfast.
[02:10:17]  Her daughter, her little four year old daughter, is sitting in her high chair eating.
[02:10:21]  He's feeding the daughter.
[02:10:21]  He's like, hey, he's like this happy go lucky, like.
[02:10:25]  Guy, and he's like, nothing wrong.
[02:10:27]  He's like the perfect guy she could have ever met.
[02:10:30]  And they live their life.
[02:10:31]  They go on vacations together.
[02:10:32]  They study together.
[02:10:33]  But he's butchering the neighbors.
[02:10:34]  Yeah.
[02:10:35]  He's butchering the neighbors.
[02:10:36]  And she doesn't find out until like way, way later.
[02:10:39]  It's fucking weird, dude.
[02:10:40]  I watched a documentary on a guy that was just like, he was killing prostitutes.
[02:10:44]  He's living with this chick and he's killing all these prostitutes around the neighborhood.
[02:10:48]  And they eventually track him down.
[02:10:49]  And she comes to him and they have him.
[02:10:53]  They're on camera and she's like, why did you do this?
[02:10:56]  Why did you do this?
[02:10:57]  And he starts crying.
[02:10:58]  And she's crying, and he goes, I did it to them so I wouldn't do it to you.
[02:11:03]  Like, I didn't want to hurt you.
[02:11:06]  That's probably the same fucking thing.
[02:11:07]  It was like, I don't know what that means.
[02:11:12]  He denied it to her.
[02:11:13]  Like, Ted Bundy basically, towards the end, like, after he had already gotten the death penalty and he realized it's over, he knows it's over.
[02:11:20]  Like, she stopped talking to him and shit.
[02:11:23]  And she is like in a mental prison because she's not in prison, but she's like.
[02:11:30]  When the whole thing started, they really liked this.
[02:11:34]  They were looking for his Volkswagen bug.
[02:11:37]  Oh, yeah, yeah, that Volkswagen.
[02:11:39]  Classy.
[02:11:40]  No, I know the Volkswagen.
[02:11:42]  He used to put his arm in a sling and act like he was hurt.
[02:11:45]  He had a whole con thing going on where he was sucking them in.
[02:11:48]  It was fucked up.
[02:11:50]  When the investigators made it public that they were looking for the Volkswagen, she called in.
[02:11:57]  She's like, hey, I want to report.
[02:11:59]  I know somebody who has this Volkswagen.
[02:12:02]  Will my name will I be anonymous?
[02:12:05]  And she's like, It's his name is this.
[02:12:07]  Just put him on the list.
[02:12:08]  Like, oh, well, we don't think that's him, but we'll put his name down.
[02:12:11]  What's your name?
[02:12:11]  And then she hangs up.
[02:12:13]  Anyways, he finally gets busted.
[02:12:15]  Years later, she never tells him that she initially called them and put his name on this list of like 100 people.
[02:12:22]  And she's like, Going through all this, she doesn't know if she never talks to him for like 10 years.
[02:12:27]  She finally goes back, like, right before he goes into death row.
[02:12:31]  And she's like, Just please, like, Release me, release me of this burden.
[02:12:37]  I called in and I fucking gave him your name.
[02:12:39]  He's like, What?
[02:12:41]  And I'm probably, this is a major spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't watched it yet.
[02:12:44]  But, well, I'll spoil it.
[02:12:45]  He dies.
[02:12:46]  Anyways, yeah, he dies.
[02:12:47]  But this is a great ending.
[02:12:49]  We all kind of know what happened.
[02:12:50]  This is a fucking great ending.
[02:12:51]  You like the twist?
[02:12:52]  The ending of it.
[02:12:53]  It was all fucking bonkers.
[02:12:55]  And she's in there with a glass wall.
[02:12:57]  And this is like their last meeting.
[02:12:58]  And she's like, Tell me why you did this.
[02:13:00]  And she brings in this photo that one of the investigators gave her years before.
[02:13:06]  Because she was like in denial that he had done this and she brings the photo She's like I gave them your name just tell me the truth release me of this burden that's on my shoulders like release me and He's like I didn't do it.
[02:13:18]  She's she pulls out the photo and it's a naked decapitated woman She's like why did you do did you do this?
[02:13:24]  He's like no.
[02:13:25]  Oh my god.
[02:13:26]  What?
[02:13:27]  Tell me just tell me the truth and like it's this long mono dialogue between them and at the end he's like breaking down in tears and he's like He just writes the the glass is like dusty And he just writes.
[02:13:39]  He's like crying.
[02:13:40]  And with his fingers, he inscribes in the glass dust, he writes, hacksaw.
[02:13:47]  And then she fucking gets up and leaves, and they take him away, dude.
[02:13:49]  It's fucking insane.
[02:13:51]  It's so good.
[02:13:52]  What?
[02:13:52]  He killed the chick in the picture with a hacksaw or something?
[02:13:55]  Basically, he's saying he cut her head off with a hacksaw.
[02:13:57]  Oh, yeah.
[02:13:58]  But he didn't say it.
[02:13:59]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:14:00]  Because he didn't want it to be recorded or whatever.
[02:14:02]  I don't know.
[02:14:03]  But it was a great fucking movie, bro.
[02:14:06]  And it's on Netflix now?
[02:14:07]  It's on Netflix, yeah.
[02:14:08]  Just type in Ted Bundy.
[02:14:09]  Ted Bundy.
[02:14:09]  I've seen it.
[02:14:10]  It comes up.
[02:14:11]  I saw the documentary on it.
[02:14:13]  It's like a six part series, but I didn't see the movie.
[02:14:16]  Yeah.
[02:14:16]  But they have a really good series documentary on it with all the court footage and everything.
[02:14:21]  He fucking broke out of prison twice.

=== Hacksaw Murders In Dust (04:37) ===

[02:14:23]  Yeah.
[02:14:24]  Well, the courtroom was one of them.
[02:14:25]  Courtroom, he jumped out the window because he was holding in the room, yeah.
[02:14:29]  When they take his handcuffs off and they leave the room, and he just jumps out the fucking window because he was his own lawyer, goes out and kills more people.
[02:14:36]  So he was representing himself, so he was like, Wow, he could do his own shit and make his own phone calls because he was representing himself.
[02:14:42]  So he had this like extra, yeah, privilege, little room, extra privileges.
[02:14:46]  So like the court bailiff or whatever was like flirting with some chick and he was in there pretending he was on the phone, jumps out the fucking window, breaks his ankle, and gets up, goes to Florida and kills like that's when he came to Florida, killed everybody.
[02:15:01]  Whoa.
[02:15:02]  Bonkers, bro.
[02:15:03]  You'd love it.
[02:15:05]  You'd love it.
[02:15:06]  You know what everybody always tells me?
[02:15:08]  They're always like, You'll love this one?
[02:15:09]  Yeah.
[02:15:10]  No, I always love that.
[02:15:11]  Like, Treon's, my buddy Treon, his wife, her name is Tammy.
[02:15:16]  She's like, You know who you remind me of?
[02:15:18]  And I go, No, who she is.
[02:15:20]  You ever see Dexter?
[02:15:22]  And I'm like, Oh, yeah, you are kind of like Dexter.
[02:15:24]  He's a serial killer, right?
[02:15:25]  She's like, I know.
[02:15:26]  Yeah, you totally remind me of him.
[02:15:27]  How do I keep reminding people of a serial killer?
[02:15:31]  Maybe just because a guy's super smart and very thorough with what he does.
[02:15:35]  It was a compliment.
[02:15:36]  No, you guys are both very articulate.
[02:15:37]  The fucked up thing is, it probably was to her.
[02:15:40]  Yeah.
[02:15:42]  Everyone I talk to about you, everyone, whoever mentions you all, I always say, talk about how smart you are.
[02:15:46]  I know.
[02:15:48]  And I really don't think I'm that sharp.
[02:15:50]  That's what prison does to you, right?
[02:15:52]  Yeah.
[02:15:53]  Go to prison for 12 years.
[02:15:55]  Yeah.
[02:15:55]  Your IQ will jump about 20 points.
[02:15:58]  Yeah, I do hear that a lot.
[02:15:59]  I don't know why.
[02:16:03]  I think you're very thorough with what you do.
[02:16:05]  There's different kinds of intelligence you can have, though.
[02:16:08]  Like, you could have like book smarts, you can know a lot about things, but I think prison gives you a certain like social intelligence that.
[02:16:18]  You're scaring me.
[02:16:19]  You're making it sound ominous.
[02:16:20]  No, I mean, I'm telling you, don't you agree with that?
[02:16:23]  Don't you think that there's some people that are like, they're really smart as far as history or as far as like what they know about certain subjects, but there's socially they're dummies?
[02:16:31]  Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[02:16:32]  Like, you're very easy to have a conversation with, you're very easy to to relate to or whatever.
[02:16:36]  I've noticed that's a consistency with a lot of people who have been in prison or who have been in jail.
[02:16:42]  I would say that's a very small, very select group of people.
[02:16:47]  Look, I know a bunch of guys who it's like they have a touch of Asperger's.
[02:16:52]  They're brilliant, but they're so socially awkward.
[02:16:56]  They have no friends or they'll have like one or two friends and they're super good for it.
[02:17:00]  Like that guy Rossini.
[02:17:03]  Rossini really doesn't have really any friends.
[02:17:05]  Friends and doesn't, isn't trying.
[02:17:06]  He's very socially awkward, but once you get to know him and he starts talking, you realize this guy is brilliant.
[02:17:13]  I mean, he's super smart.
[02:17:15]  It's, it's, it's odd.
[02:17:17]  It's odd.
[02:17:18]  And I've known a bunch of people like that in prison.
[02:17:21]  Yeah.
[02:17:22]  I mean, you know, I had a podcast a few days ago and it was like three of us and all of us were like alphas.
[02:17:30]  It was a constant battle, talking over each other.
[02:17:35]  And honestly, within, after about An hour or so, I was really exhausted.
[02:17:40]  Yeah.
[02:17:41]  Like, I was like, just stop talking, bro.
[02:17:43]  Just kick back and let these two guys go fucking crazy.
[02:17:45]  Because you just, you're exhausted.
[02:17:47]  And I remember thinking, this must be what it's like to be a friend of mine.
[02:17:52]  I don't know how I have it.
[02:17:53]  I don't have it.
[02:17:54]  This is exhausting.
[02:17:55]  I feel horrible for her.
[02:17:56]  It's hilarious.
[02:17:56]  Like Jess, my girlfriend, I feel horrible for her.
[02:17:59]  And luckily, she never wants to talk.
[02:18:01]  And I tell her all the time, like, okay, well, tell me this.
[02:18:03]  I'm like, you never talk.
[02:18:04]  She's like, I don't need to.
[02:18:06]  She's like, I just got to get you going.
[02:18:08]  And she said, you'll talk the whole time.
[02:18:10]  And I'm just like, that's horrible.
[02:18:12]  I guess you are kind of like that now that I think about it.
[02:18:14]  Yeah.
[02:18:16]  It's obnoxious.
[02:18:17]  You know, I try not to be like that, but it's a pain in the ass.
[02:18:21]  I really honestly, you know, know probably more about you guys than I do, you know, and I know very little about you, but, you know, it's only because I once I start to realize, okay, this guy's probably going to be around a while, I might as well ask him what he's going to do, you know, what he does for a living and, you know, little things like that.
[02:18:42]  But you don't really give a fuck.
[02:18:43]  You're just trying to make small talk.
[02:18:44]  Well, I think it's important.
[02:18:47]  Or do you care?
[02:18:48]  Um, I mean, I think it's just, do I care?
[02:18:52]  Are you genuinely interested?
[02:18:53]  Are you just trying to get along with somebody?
[02:18:55]  Well, I think I'm curious.
[02:18:56]  And I think it's important that I take interest in you.

=== Small Talk And Genuine Interest (02:50) ===

[02:19:01]  Well, no offense.
[02:19:03]  More so you because, you know, Hanrak's not around all the time.
[02:19:07]  That's real.
[02:19:08]  You're not.
[02:19:08]  You've only been around.
[02:19:09]  Right.
[02:19:11]  You've only been around half the time.
[02:19:13]  You know what I'm saying?
[02:19:14]  But Danny, I feel like.
[02:19:15]  He's been here for every podcast that you've ever had.
[02:19:17]  No way.
[02:19:17]  No.
[02:19:18]  Except for Boziak.
[02:19:20]  No, and there was the second podcast we did because the second one I was like, Where is he?
[02:19:24]  Oh, yeah, every time you come on, you realize, yeah, yeah, and you were like, Why he's annoying now?
[02:19:30]  He was like, I'm sure it was worse than that.
[02:19:33]  No, he was like, He can't make it.
[02:19:34]  He's gonna try.
[02:19:35]  He's gonna why he has a real job.
[02:19:37]  He's like, You're the only one that that ever asks.
[02:19:39]  Yeah, I love the hat rack thing.
[02:19:42]  The hat rack thing's hilarious.
[02:19:43]  That was my favorite.
[02:19:45]  I tried to track that guy down and give him free merchandise.
[02:19:48]  We gotta get him.
[02:19:48]  We can never respond from him shirts that say 200 pound hat rack.
[02:19:52]  It's awesome.
[02:19:52]  How did he guess that you were 200 pounds?
[02:19:53]  Are you 200 pounds?
[02:19:55]  No, I'm a little south of 200, but I'm close.
[02:19:58]  Yeah, buck 80.
[02:19:58]  Buck 85, buck 80.
[02:20:00]  What does this say?
[02:20:02]  His hat?
[02:20:03]  Yeah.
[02:20:05]  Atmosphere urine.
[02:20:06]  Okay.
[02:20:07]  I mean, I guess it's the letters.
[02:20:11]  I thought it said Atmos.
[02:20:12]  Have you ever heard of Supreme?
[02:20:15]  Yeah, I'm sure I'm not.
[02:20:16]  It says urine.
[02:20:18]  I saw urine.
[02:20:19]  It's a jumble of two names where they scrambled the letters to make two more words.
[02:20:26]  Okay.
[02:20:26]  I'm sure there's an official term for something like that.
[02:20:28]  I'm dyslexic, so I saw urine.
[02:20:30]  I thought, it doesn't say urine.
[02:20:31]  And I looked at it again.
[02:20:32]  I was like, no, it looks like it says urine.
[02:20:35]  No, wait, it does say it.
[02:20:36]  Okay, what does this say?
[02:20:37]  Anti hero, right?
[02:20:39]  It's a jumble of two names.
[02:20:43]  Explain it to me.
[02:20:43]  Supreme, anti hero.
[02:20:45]  They're like skateboard companies.
[02:20:47]  There's a skateboard.
[02:20:48]  Jumbled the logos together.
[02:20:50]  Your shirt is a skateboard company, too.
[02:20:52]  No, his shirt is a concrete shirt with Beavis' mouth on it.
[02:20:55]  I'm about my sweater.
[02:20:56]  No, no, I meant that.
[02:20:57]  I meant that.
[02:20:58]  Sorry.
[02:21:00]  So, there's a company called Anti Hero, right?
[02:21:02]  A skateboard company.
[02:21:02]  And there's also a clothing company called Supreme.
[02:21:05]  Which is the skateboard company originally.
[02:21:07]  They took S U P R E M E and A N T I H E R O and just jumbled them together to make some fucked up phrase.
[02:21:15]  And that's what that is.
[02:21:16]  Okay.
[02:21:17]  What do you think about it?
[02:21:19]  I don't really understand it.
[02:21:20]  It's art.
[02:21:21]  Fine art.
[02:21:22]  Okay.
[02:21:25]  Some guy with a fine arts degree came up with that in Photoshop and said, hey, let's put it on Venus.
[02:21:29]  I don't know if a fine arts degree guy came up with it, but.
[02:21:31]  Somebody like Luke.
[02:21:33]  Well, that's very possible.
[02:21:34]  Yeah.
[02:21:34]  Luke's got a fine arts degree.
[02:21:35]  That's true.
[02:21:37]  I guess.
[02:21:38]  Yeah.
[02:21:38]  Okay.
[02:21:39]  Makes sense.
[02:21:40]  Makes sense.
[02:21:43]  So you've got.
[02:21:44]  This is two and a half hours.
[02:21:45]  You want to end it?
[02:21:46]  I mean, I'm I'm I was wondering what we were doing here.
[02:21:49]  I was like, I know we're going off now.

=== Civil Judgments And Restitution (11:06) ===

[02:21:51]  I know he's gonna cut all this.
[02:21:52]  He's got a so what what's the what's the ending to this this story here Matt?
[02:21:56]  I mean, I think that's why I was saying when I called the homicide detective it was to try and push this thing forward to an ending and to force an ending.
[02:22:04]  Do you ever see an ending coming to this?
[02:22:07]  I would love it if the guy would be would get convicted.
[02:22:09]  He's a fucking murderer.
[02:22:10]  He's murdering people from inside of a federal prison that didn't deserve to be killed.
[02:22:14]  Fuck them.
[02:22:14]  You know what I'm saying?
[02:22:15]  I would love to see that be the ending.
[02:22:16]  Do you think?
[02:22:18]  This seems like it.
[02:22:21]  I've seen people get indicted for things that I know they should.
[02:22:24]  I'm like, how could you have, how can you sleep at night indicting this guy who answered the phone and told his son that his buddy was coming over to pick up some drugs?
[02:22:36]  And boom, that guy, now your father, they just indicted your father and they indicted your father to get you to cooperate and they still sent your dad to jail for 10 years.
[02:22:43]  So it's like, how do you sleep at night?
[02:22:45]  But you're going to let this guy, you're not going to, but this guy's a murderer.
[02:22:49]  Right.
[02:22:49]  You're not going to, you're not going to prosecute him.
[02:22:50]  You could, but you're not going to.
[02:22:53]  I mean, I don't know why do you think they don't?
[02:22:55]  I don't know.
[02:22:55]  There's got to be something there that maybe there's something, but we're talking about cherry or initially I thought it was because Chris had fought the whole time, yeah.
[02:23:05]  And that's a big thing.
[02:23:06]  Like, if you go to trial, had fought his own case, yeah, he kept fighting his case for 20 years.
[02:23:11]  So, here's the problem Danny goes to trial, okay.
[02:23:14]  If Danny goes to trial and then he gets 20 years and then he turns around and says, Listen, I found out about something that's going on and I can tell you about these guys, they'll say, Okay.
[02:23:24]  And they'll go, give us the information.
[02:23:25]  If anything happens, we'll consider it substantial assistance.
[02:23:28]  We'll reduce your sentence.
[02:23:29]  Then they bust those guys, and you go, okay, hey, you busted those guys.
[02:23:32]  That guy got five years.
[02:23:33]  This guy got four years.
[02:23:34]  You're going to reduce my sentence?
[02:23:36]  And they go, nah.
[02:23:38]  Now, you know why?
[02:23:38]  Because you went to trial.
[02:23:40]  Yeah.
[02:23:40]  You went to trial.
[02:23:41]  Oh, I don't like that.
[02:23:43]  You filed an appeal.
[02:23:45]  That leaves some sour.
[02:23:46]  I've even seen them say to guys, yeah, we'll file a reduction in your sentence, but you have to remove your.
[02:23:53]  Like they're doing a 2255, let's say, or they're filing a motion to try and get their sentence reduced.
[02:23:57]  But you have to.
[02:23:59]  Remove your 2255, and you're like, Uh, well, that could set me free.
[02:24:06]  Okay, so if I do that, you promise to no, you do it, and we'll consider it.
[02:24:11]  And it's like, I mean, you're you know, it's it's terrifying, you're in a horrible position, so yeah, you're fucked.
[02:24:16]  Do I think they should?
[02:24:17]  Will they?
[02:24:18]  I don't know, so crazy, bro.
[02:24:20]  It's like, it's like on this side of the prison gates, you have all these, you're free, basically free, you have all these amazing rights, but once you slip a little bit on the other side.
[02:24:33]  You're fucked.
[02:24:34]  You have nothing.
[02:24:35]  You're a fucking prisoner of the government forever.
[02:24:38]  You're a slave.
[02:24:40]  Here's the problem.
[02:24:40]  And you're fucked forever.
[02:24:41]  Here's the problem.
[02:24:42]  And here's the way I always look at it.
[02:24:44]  And the guys in prison look at it if they think about it at all.
[02:24:49]  Prison is the way the government would treat you if they had absolute power over you.
[02:24:57]  So people, they're like, oh, they would never do this.
[02:24:59]  They wouldn't to the citizens.
[02:25:01]  You give them absolute power and this is how they'll treat you.
[02:25:05]  Because guess what?
[02:25:08]  It's probably no more violent in prison than it is in society, you know, in a low or a camp.
[02:25:14]  What do they call it?
[02:25:15]  Treat you like garbage and scum.
[02:25:17]  Why?
[02:25:18]  Because we can.
[02:25:18]  Lord of the Flies?
[02:25:19]  Yeah.
[02:25:20]  Huh?
[02:25:21]  That's what it's like in prison, like Lord of the Flies, right?
[02:25:24]  With all the kids, in the story with the kids on the island, that's what it would be like?
[02:25:29]  Yeah, you have, well, I mean, no, I don't know.
[02:25:31]  I mean, you still have guard, you still have, there's still a structure there.
[02:25:35]  You know, it's not like just the toughest kids running the block and they're just.
[02:25:39]  Taking and stealing and it's not.
[02:25:41]  It's not like that.
[02:25:42]  But I mean they basically like you get horrible treatment, you get, you get the worst possible medical only.
[02:25:48]  So it looks like we're helping you yeah, but I guess what I'm trying to say illusion.
[02:25:51]  Once you slip into that system, the judicial system, the prison system right, once you get that label on you, and even if you go to prison for six months not, I'm not even saying you go for six years or ten years or whatever once you get out you're still, you almost still, have one foot in that world, in that oh yeah yeah well, I should never leave it.
[02:26:14]  It's so hard to get out.
[02:26:16]  I'm, i've got major like I. Like people don't even seem to realize that how, you know what a, what an untenable position that I am in.
[02:26:25]  You're free, but you're not really.
[02:26:26]  Oh no no, it's very easy.
[02:26:27]  They can easily yank my uh, they can easily send me back prison.
[02:26:30]  I, I have, I have very few rights.
[02:26:33]  Do you right?
[02:26:33]  Does that bother you?
[02:26:34]  Does that?
[02:26:35]  Do you think about that a lot?
[02:26:36]  I think about it all the time.
[02:26:37]  If, like I go to get in somebody's car, you know, like I, literally like i'm i'm, If I, luckily, I don't almost I almost never have to get in someone's car, But if I were to go get in your car, it would be like you don't have a gun in here, do you?
[02:26:49]  No, of course not.
[02:26:50]  No, I'm serious, bro.
[02:26:51]  I mean, you don't have a gun.
[02:26:52]  You don't have this, you know, because I'm in the worst possible position because if anything happens You're fucked right.
[02:26:59]  Do you know how many people have come to me and offered me business ideas or hey, look I'll put up this much money and we'll do this and this I'm like yeah, but but what if that doesn't work?
[02:27:09]  Well, I mean if it doesn't work it's I understand it doesn't work You say that now, but you lose 50 grand.
[02:27:15]  Yeah.
[02:27:16]  You're going to be upset.
[02:27:17]  Yeah.
[02:27:17]  Well, that's not going to happen.
[02:27:19]  No, no.
[02:27:19]  It could happen.
[02:27:20]  Right.
[02:27:20]  And then you get upset.
[02:27:23]  And then you make a call.
[02:27:24]  And I'm in front of the judge.
[02:27:26]  And he doesn't believe me.
[02:27:27]  And it won't matter.
[02:27:29]  It won't matter if there's paperwork.
[02:27:30]  No, Your Honor, he signed this.
[02:27:31]  He signed this.
[02:27:32]  No, Mr. Cotton.
[02:27:33]  Because you change your story at all, they're going to believe everything you say.
[02:27:36]  Not me.
[02:27:36]  I'm done.
[02:27:37]  So, I mean, there are multiple times where people could have made my life much, much easier than my life is right now.
[02:27:43]  But I'm not in a position where I can really dealing with me.
[02:27:48]  You know, I'm gonna do everything I'm supposed to do.
[02:27:50]  You know why?
[02:27:51]  Because I can't, I can't fuck up.
[02:27:53]  Yeah, right.
[02:27:53]  I'm not in a position where I can argue with you or we can go to court or you can sue me.
[02:27:58]  Right.
[02:28:00]  You're fine.
[02:28:00]  I'm losing every single time.
[02:28:02]  Yeah, right.
[02:28:02]  You're going right back to prison.
[02:28:03]  So I've got multiple people that say, hey, we could do this.
[02:28:05]  Uh-uh.
[02:28:06]  Uh-uh.
[02:28:06]  No, can't do that.
[02:28:07]  Can't do it.
[02:28:08]  No, it's okay.
[02:28:09]  I won't even, your name won't even be on, you know, it doesn't matter.
[02:28:11]  Do you understand?
[02:28:13]  If anything happens, I go back to prison.
[02:28:16]  You know, for you, it's nothing.
[02:28:17]  For me, it's prison.
[02:28:19]  And if I go back to prison for, Two months just waiting for the judge to say, let's say they grab me and they hold me.
[02:28:25]  It takes two or three months to get in front of the judge while I'm waiting.
[02:28:28]  And the judge says, Yeah, you know what?
[02:28:29]  I'm going to give them time served.
[02:28:31]  Oh, okay.
[02:28:31]  Boom.
[02:28:32]  Guess what?
[02:28:32]  By the time I get out, I've lost my apartment.
[02:28:34]  I've lost my home.
[02:28:35]  I don't have any place to live now.
[02:28:36]  I'm worse off than I was when I left prison with nothing because now I don't even have a halfway house for seven or eight months.
[02:28:42]  I got nothing.
[02:28:43]  I'm sleeping on Treon's couch.
[02:28:44]  I'm going back to Stacey and saying, Can I get my old room back?
[02:28:47]  Can you give me a month to come up with the rent?
[02:28:50]  I have nothing.
[02:28:51]  My stuff, everything's gone.
[02:28:53]  People won't realize that.
[02:28:54]  They think, oh, it's not a big deal.
[02:28:56]  Fuck you.
[02:28:57]  You don't know, bro.
[02:28:58]  You don't really know how bad it is, how bad of a position I'm in.
[02:29:02]  Yeah.
[02:29:03]  So, yeah.
[02:29:04]  Just living with that fear day in and day out has to be so draining on you, bro.
[02:29:09]  You know, and then the worst part about it is, the worst part about it is, there's nobody to blame.
[02:29:16]  You see what I'm saying?
[02:29:17]  Like, I can't be angry at the system.
[02:29:20]  I can't be angry at the way things are because that's how they were when I was committing my crimes.
[02:29:25]  I put myself in this position.
[02:29:27]  I didn't know it.
[02:29:29]  I should have known it.
[02:29:30]  I put myself in this position.
[02:29:32]  I'm in a horrible position and it's nobody's fault but mine.
[02:29:35]  So, I don't even get to bitch about it.
[02:29:38]  Like, I can't even blame somebody.
[02:29:40]  Yeah.
[02:29:40]  Because if you really look at it, you know, look at it from step outside the box and look at it, you go, well, how'd you get here?
[02:29:48]  It was me.
[02:29:48]  I just did some dumbass things and actually did some dumbass things, could have corrected it, kept doing it, could have corrected it again, then decided to go, you know what?
[02:29:57]  Fuck it.
[02:29:58]  Let's go up a notch.
[02:29:58]  Let's take it up.
[02:30:00]  Like, I'm not even going to step back.
[02:30:01]  No, I'm going all in.
[02:30:03]  Well, that was cute when it was working.
[02:30:05]  But it ain't cute now.
[02:30:06]  It's probably not going to be cute the rest of my life.
[02:30:09]  I can't even.
[02:30:10]  Most people, my girlfriend Jess, she's off probation.
[02:30:13]  She did a year.
[02:30:13]  Really?
[02:30:14]  She had like two or three years probation.
[02:30:15]  She's off already.
[02:30:17]  So she's off probation.
[02:30:19]  I can't get.
[02:30:19]  Most people get off probation at the halfway mark, as long as they don't violate.
[02:30:25]  I can't even do that.
[02:30:26]  Why?
[02:30:26]  Because I owe $6 million.
[02:30:28]  So they won't.
[02:30:30]  They're saying, we're going to keep you every.
[02:30:32]  For five years, you're doing every day so that we know you're going to pay.
[02:30:37]  Every single month.
[02:30:38]  What happens after five years you haven't paid $6 million?
[02:30:42]  Then I have a civil judgment.
[02:30:44]  They pass it from the court collecting because right now they don't have to hire anybody to collect because they know if I don't collect, I go back to prison.
[02:30:51]  So they're like, oh, he's going to pay.
[02:30:53]  Yeah.
[02:30:55]  But what they'll do is just a percentage of your income, right?
[02:30:57]  Right.
[02:30:59]  And then what ends up, like when I got the federal, remember I got the federal unemployment?
[02:31:04]  Yeah.
[02:31:05]  And I got a whole.
[02:31:06]  I took some of that.
[02:31:06]  They took 25% of it.
[02:31:07]  Wow.
[02:31:07]  Wow.
[02:31:09]  Listen, how fucked is that?
[02:31:11]  What'd you expect them to do?
[02:31:12]  I mean, I thought you were going to say more than 25%.
[02:31:15]  You got a drop check and they took some of it?
[02:31:17]  Yeah.
[02:31:17]  Yeah.
[02:31:17]  They took like a thousand.
[02:31:19]  They put it towards your restitution?
[02:31:21]  Yeah.
[02:31:22]  Yeah.
[02:31:22]  They didn't take it.
[02:31:23]  My PO didn't go off to Vegas or anything.
[02:31:26]  Yeah.
[02:31:26]  Yeah.
[02:31:26]  Because you took $6 million.
[02:31:28]  Right.
[02:31:29]  I'll be paying forever.
[02:31:30]  From the banks.
[02:31:32]  Yeah.
[02:31:32]  So that $6 million turns into a civil judgment and then a collection agency will come after me.
[02:31:39]  At that point, you have to try and make some kind of a payment arrangement with a collection agency that collects on behalf of the federal government after that.
[02:31:46]  So, I'll never can't buy anything in my name.
[02:31:48]  If I buy a house, and let's say I buy a house.
[02:31:51]  Start a GoFundMe for Matt Cox.
[02:31:53]  I was going to say that.
[02:31:54]  Matt Cox, he owes $6 million to the federal government.
[02:31:57]  I've actually got it down.
[02:31:58]  It's like $5,900,000.
[02:32:00]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[02:32:02]  That's what he's saying.
[02:32:02]  It's really $2.5.
[02:32:05]  So, please like and subscribe so we could pay the restitution.
[02:32:09]  Oh, fuck, Matt.
[02:32:10]  Good times.
[02:32:11]  Yeah, it's sad.
[02:32:12]  It's not designed to help people win.
[02:32:14]  It's designed to fucking keep you in the loop, the ever-ending loop of death.
[02:32:19]  Listen, it beats prison, which is where I'm supposed to be.
[02:32:22]  It's all about respect.
[02:32:22]  I love it out here.
[02:32:23]  Hell yeah.
[02:32:24]  It's great out here.
[02:32:25]  It's great out here.
[02:32:25]  Food's great.
[02:32:26]  Weather's nice.
[02:32:27]  I get to turn the TV.
[02:32:28]  Starbucks is good.
[02:32:30]  Starbucks hits different outside, huh?
[02:32:33]  I still have a bag of coffee.
[02:32:34]  It's no instant coffee.
[02:32:35]  You have Keefe instant coffee.
[02:32:37]  I have a bag in my I have a bag.
[02:32:39]  Just in case.
[02:32:40]  Well, you know what I want to do?
[02:32:41]  At some point, I want to go to dinner with somebody who I was locked up with.
[02:32:46]  And when we go to pay, I'm like, bro, I got this.
[02:32:48]  I got this.
[02:32:49]  I want to pull out a couple of books of stamps and a fucking pee pee coffee.
[02:32:53]  I'll be just like, what are you doing?
[02:32:56]  You're crazy.

=== True Crime Podcast Loops (01:45) ===

[02:32:58]  Or tell the waitress, be like, can you give me some coffee?
[02:33:00]  Wait a second.
[02:33:00]  Hold on.
[02:33:01]  Here, here.
[02:33:01]  Just mix that up.
[02:33:03]  You could do that.
[02:33:04]  You could do stupid stuff like that all throughout dinner.
[02:33:06]  Yeah.
[02:33:07]  That's funny.
[02:33:08]  All right, man.
[02:33:08]  I think we've hit a wall.
[02:33:10]  Let's wrap it up.
[02:33:11]  Rapper.
[02:33:11]  Go ahead and give your plugs.
[02:33:13]  Where can people find your story on Inside True Crime?
[02:33:16]  InsideTrueCrime.com.
[02:33:18]  Yeah, it's Matt Cox.
[02:33:19]  If you put Matt Cox and Inside True Crime, it comes up.
[02:33:21]  That's not my story.
[02:33:24]  That's my website.
[02:33:26]  It's my YouTube channel.
[02:33:27]  Listen, by this point, nobody's watching.
[02:33:29]  At this point, have you ever watched the analytics?
[02:33:33]  Like by the end, that last, you're going to have 40,000 views and the last part is like, you know, like, and three people watched it all the way.
[02:33:41]  No way.
[02:33:42]  There's way more than three.
[02:33:42]  Trust me.
[02:33:44]  So, yeah.
[02:33:45]  So it's Matt Cox at Inside True Crime.
[02:33:47]  I got all my narrated stories.
[02:33:48]  This story will be narrated, which is way better than what I just did.
[02:33:52]  And I put up, what, two podcasts?
[02:33:55]  Or I do two, like, two vlogs, two vlogs a week, you know, and, and, uh, That's it.
[02:34:03]  I'm trying to do a true crime.
[02:34:05]  I got a true crime thing I'm working on right now in LA to do, like, to go over all my stories.
[02:34:10]  You know, do like three every season.
[02:34:12]  It's a whole thing, kind of like a Dirty John type of, you know, like a real, like a professional kind of edited podcast.
[02:34:19]  The thing you hate.
[02:34:20]  The kind where they put it on, like, Apple, iPod, or iTunes.
[02:34:24]  Oh, no, I like those podcasts.
[02:34:25]  Like, cereal or something like that.
[02:34:27]  Yeah, exactly.
[02:34:28]  I love cereal.
[02:34:29]  Those are great.
[02:34:29]  Cereal was great.
[02:34:30]  Yeah.
[02:34:31]  Yeah.
[02:34:31]  So I'm trying to do that right now with.
[02:34:33]  Dave, we're working on, we're kind of negotiating.
[02:34:37]  So I'm not really doing much of anything.
[02:34:38]  I'm just waiting.
[02:34:40]  All right.
[02:34:40]  Thanks a lot, Matt.
[02:34:42]  Bye-bye, everyone.