Danny Jones Podcast - #21 - FBI's Most Wanted Con Artist | Matthew Cox
Aired: 2019-10-16
Duration: 02:12:55


=== Twelve Million Dollars in Fraud (14:49) ===

[00:00:06]  We are back on the podcast today with Matthew Cox.
[00:00:13]  How are you doing?
[00:00:14]  You're well known for making over $12 million through mortgage fraud.
[00:00:21]  We're sentenced to 26 years in prison.
[00:00:25]  And now you're a true crime author.
[00:00:29]  Right.
[00:00:31]  Does that nail it pretty well?
[00:00:32]  Yeah, that's pretty good.
[00:00:33]  Okay.
[00:00:34]  You also have an entire episode done about you.
[00:00:39]  American Greed.
[00:00:40]  Is that the name of the show?
[00:00:41]  Yes.
[00:00:42]  American Greed on CNBC.
[00:00:44]  Yeah.
[00:00:45]  There was one on Dateline, too, but it's nowhere.
[00:00:49]  You got to be pretty well known to be on American Greed.
[00:00:53]  I mean, you had to have done a pretty big-time crime to be on that show.
[00:01:00]  Yeah, well, 12 million is big, right?
[00:01:02]  Yeah, the number 12 million is.
[00:01:04]  It's a big number.
[00:01:06]  Is that the most amount of money that you made over the.
[00:01:09]  That you acquired over that period of time?
[00:01:12]  Kind of the federal, like, it's, you know, it's difficult to determine exactly what the number is because the government kept shifting the number.
[00:01:21]  But it's basically the FBI at one point had said that the mortgage company I owned had done like $40 million in mortgage fraud.
[00:01:29]  But keep in mind, too, that that's misleading because if you have a $100,000 loan, $100,000 loan on a piece of property that you bought for $110,000, there's no real dollar law.
[00:01:41]  So they're counting that as $100,000 in.
[00:01:44]  Fraud.
[00:01:44]  Well, I didn't get any of that.
[00:01:45]  So the mortgage company they're saying they were saying at one point they were threatening that they were going to charge me 40 million in mortgage fraud on the uh for the, the mortgage company that I owned, and then, and there's multiple frauds, so it really the numbers really that i'd always kind of heard was 15 million, but 11 and a half, 12 has i've heard 26, somebody was throwing around 26, you know so, but 12 is 12 is good, 12.
[00:02:13]  I didn't see 12 yeah, so you know it's misleading.
[00:02:16]  So what, what was your plan with all of this in the beginning what?
[00:02:21]  What inspired all of this and what?
[00:02:22]  What was what?
[00:02:23]  What did you get into that?
[00:02:24]  Because you're probably doing well.
[00:02:26]  What was your long running a legit business first, or is it?
[00:02:28]  I was thinking about that like Batman the Joker when he says, do I look like I have a plan?
[00:02:33]  I'm just a dog chasing a chasing a car.
[00:02:36]  If I caught it I wouldn't know what to do with it.
[00:02:38]  Yeah um uh no, I mean my, I had no plan.
[00:02:44]  I I opened a mortgage company, I was a mortgage broker, I was basically.
[00:02:47]  I got a degree in fine arts, were you a legit mortgage broker at any point, man?
[00:02:52]  I mean Initially, I went into it.
[00:02:55]  I got my license.
[00:02:56]  I was going to be a mortgage broker.
[00:02:57]  I started being a mortgage broker.
[00:02:59]  I had full intentions of being a legitimate mortgage broker.
[00:03:02]  My very first loan, I go into my manager's office.
[00:03:07]  We lay the file down.
[00:03:08]  She goes through it and she pulls out one piece of paper and sticks it to the side.
[00:03:12]  I'm not, I don't really necessarily even know what fraud is or even how you would go about committing fraud.
[00:03:17]  I'm just trying to close loans.
[00:03:19]  She does it and she goes, okay, it's perfect.
[00:03:20]  And I go, what?
[00:03:21]  She goes, well, she goes, you didn't even look at this, did you?
[00:03:23]  And I went, no, she goes, this is a verification of rent.
[00:03:27]  VOR.
[00:03:27]  Right.
[00:03:28]  And I went, okay.
[00:03:28]  She goes, this girl was 30 days late about 11 months ago on her rent.
[00:03:32]  And I went, oh, geez, I didn't even notice that.
[00:03:34]  And she goes, yeah.
[00:03:35]  And I go, oh, my God.
[00:03:36]  So I'm thinking right now, based on an underwriting guideline, she doesn't get a loan.
[00:03:41]  And she goes, so she pulls out some whiteout, undoes it, and she goes, just go ahead and get rid of it, make a copy of it, and we'll put it back in the pile.
[00:03:51]  It'll be fine.
[00:03:51]  You guys can see that.
[00:03:53]  Yeah.
[00:03:53]  And I went, I said, well, that's fraud, right?
[00:03:57]  And I go, that's fraud.
[00:03:58]  And she goes, Keep in mind, like Ford Motor Car is looking for my truck.
[00:04:05]  My credit cards have been shut off.
[00:04:07]  I mean, I'm behind on my mortgage.
[00:04:10]  I mean, I'm in dire straits.
[00:04:12]  So, you know, she said, Look, worst that's going to happen, underwriting catches it.
[00:04:17]  She goes, And maybe you get fired.
[00:04:19]  Maybe they just don't close the loan.
[00:04:20]  She said, You're nobody's going to jail.
[00:04:23]  And I went, You know, she said, Do what you want to do.
[00:04:25]  She's nobody's looking for my car.
[00:04:27]  And so I, you know, so I grabbed it and I whited it out.
[00:04:30]  I made a copy, stuck it in, sweated bullets for about five days.
[00:04:34]  Five days later, boom, the loan's ready to close.
[00:04:36]  I go down there.
[00:04:38]  The girl signs the paperwork, I get a check for $3,500.
[00:04:41]  Yeah.
[00:04:42]  I mean, I'm ecstatic.
[00:04:45]  Yeah.
[00:04:45]  Wow.
[00:04:46]  I mean, $3,500.
[00:04:47]  I'm like 29 years old.
[00:04:49]  That was a ton of money that got me back on my feet.
[00:04:53]  And the next thing you know, I'm closing four loans the next month.
[00:04:57]  I'm closing six loans the next month.
[00:04:59]  The next month, it's eight.
[00:05:00]  Then it's 10, then it's 12.
[00:05:01]  They make me a manager of the Brandon office.
[00:05:04]  And then that mortgage company got shut down.
[00:05:07]  It'd been maybe six months.
[00:05:08]  And keep in mind, too, at that point when I kind of realized what's going on, it got to the point where you walked in and it's like all the numbers work, but you only made $45,000 last year.
[00:05:21]  But if you made $55,000, I could get you a loan.
[00:05:25]  So, I mean.
[00:05:27]  Right, so you just put $55,000.
[00:05:29]  I changed the W-2.
[00:05:30]  I have a degree in fine arts.
[00:05:31]  I changed the W-2.
[00:05:32]  I send it in.
[00:05:33]  I pray that they're not going to ask any specifics when they call to verify the employment.
[00:05:38]  Keep in mind the verification of employment comes to me.
[00:05:41]  I changed that to say $45,000.
[00:05:43]  or to say 55 just like the w2 yeah it closes and boom closes there's a check for three thousand four thousand dollars at that point it just seems too easy then right it's just like and too good to be true right nobody's in that industry right so many people were doing it and that was that was uh pre uh financial crisis so that's back in this is back in like nine uh 1999 2000.
[00:06:11]  so i'm like 29 years old and and By the time I opened up my own mortgage company, if you basically, if you walk through the door with a pulse, I'm getting you a loan.
[00:06:21]  Yeah.
[00:06:21]  You got a house?
[00:06:22]  You don't have your down payment?
[00:06:23]  I got it.
[00:06:24]  We'll take care of that.
[00:06:25]  You know, you wash cars.
[00:06:28]  You've never claimed taxes.
[00:06:29]  It's not a big deal.
[00:06:31]  It's not a big deal.
[00:06:32]  Don't worry.
[00:06:33]  We'll slam this loan.
[00:06:34]  Yeah.
[00:06:34]  If I pull your credit, it's questionable.
[00:06:38]  I can get you in a house.
[00:06:39]  I got you.
[00:06:40]  Wow.
[00:06:40]  I mean, you know, just to get them in there and, you know, maybe they make a few payments.
[00:06:44]  Maybe they make all the payments.
[00:06:45]  Right.
[00:06:46]  So that's the problem is that that's a mortgage that right there.
[00:06:48]  If that's a $200,000 loan, well, that's $200,000 in fraud.
[00:06:52]  I only got a broker fee at that point.
[00:06:54]  Right.
[00:06:54]  But what happened was very quickly, I ended up with a staff underneath me that were just guys doing that.
[00:07:03]  So we're all rehabbing houses.
[00:07:04]  We're buying houses in Ybor City, Tampa Heights.
[00:07:07]  We're fixing up houses.
[00:07:08]  We're selling those houses.
[00:07:10]  We're getting our own people loans and we're committing, you know, a massive amount of mortgage fraud.
[00:07:16]  I mean, at one point, I probably had 14 guys working for me.
[00:07:20]  You know, it was always in between like eight to 14, and there was really only like half a dozen of them that were any good anyway.
[00:07:26]  Right.
[00:07:27]  You know, and what's funny about it is like most of the guys that worked for me all still work in real estate.
[00:07:34]  Like they're all around.
[00:07:36]  Really?
[00:07:37]  Oh, yeah.
[00:07:38]  So I'll see somebody.
[00:07:39]  I remember I saw somebody who was on my indictment.
[00:07:42]  This is when I was in the halfway house.
[00:07:45]  A girl that was the best broker I'd ever had.
[00:07:47]  She was amazing.
[00:07:50]  And I saw her.
[00:07:51]  I was in the.
[00:07:53]  Halfway house, I was on my way to work, pull in to behind her in Dunkin' Donuts.
[00:07:59]  And she looked right at me.
[00:08:00]  She looked right in the mirror.
[00:08:02]  She goes, she does this.
[00:08:03]  Keep in mind, she's thinking this guy's getting out of prison in 2030.
[00:08:06]  So I'm not supposed to be out of prison.
[00:08:08]  So she does this.
[00:08:09]  I can see her.
[00:08:10]  She's got the mirror right here, and she goes, like this.
[00:08:16]  And then she backs up, like she's hiding from me.
[00:08:19]  I'm still staring right at you.
[00:08:20]  Yeah.
[00:08:21]  If you're staring at me, I'm staring at you.
[00:08:23]  So I'm looking at her, like, what's, you know, and I kind of do this to her, and she goes, and I mean, it's just, she never, she didn't, I thought she's going to get out of the car.
[00:08:33]  She's going to say, hey, what's up?
[00:08:35]  How are you?
[00:08:35]  Nothing.
[00:08:36]  Of course, she also is like the manager of a bank.
[00:08:39]  And you certainly don't want to be associated with me if you're the manager of a bank.
[00:08:43]  Hell no.
[00:08:44]  And you're also listed on an indictment that you just were never prosecuted for.
[00:08:48]  Oh, shit.
[00:08:49]  Right.
[00:08:49]  So, you know, I've got all these people that are around that are like, hey, man, what's going on?
[00:08:54]  How's it going?
[00:08:55]  What's going on?
[00:08:56]  And they all want to hang out and talk, but only to veering degrees.
[00:09:00]  Yeah.
[00:09:01]  So, well, I own that mortgage company.
[00:09:03]  Right.
[00:09:03]  Like I said, I own the mortgage company.
[00:09:05]  And at some point, one of my mortgage brokers.
[00:09:08]  left and opened her own place, she and her husband.
[00:09:12]  And she was doing what's called a, she got involved in what's called a straw man scam, which is where, let's say I get Danny to buy a house from me for, I can buy a house for $500,000.
[00:09:29]  I put $100,000 in it, fix it up.
[00:09:32]  I get Danny to buy the house from me for a million dollars.
[00:09:35]  So there's $400,000.
[00:09:36]  I give Danny $200,000.
[00:09:38]  I take $200,000.
[00:09:40]  Danny just rented out and made the payments.
[00:09:42]  Well, Danny can't make the payments.
[00:09:43]  He can't make the payments on that house because it won't support a renter at that amount.
[00:09:48]  Maybe he makes a couple of payments.
[00:09:49]  Well, what happened was she worked with a group of investors that bought multiple properties, four or five properties.
[00:09:55]  They pulled out like half a million, a million dollars to a million dollars.
[00:10:00]  She made $40,000 or $50,000 in ridiculous broker fees and the loans all went under.
[00:10:05]  Well, when the loans went under, these guys weren't even making the first payment.
[00:10:08]  That's called a first payment default.
[00:10:09]  What happens is the lenders start investigating.
[00:10:12]  As soon as they investigate, they realize right away it's fraud because she's making W 2s, pay subs, she's creating documents.
[00:10:17]  So it doesn't take much to uncover that.
[00:10:20]  They uncover it, they track it back to her.
[00:10:23]  The FBI shows up.
[00:10:25]  They say they talk to these guys, these guys cooperate, everybody's cooperating.
[00:10:28]  She cooperates.
[00:10:30]  I know the whole thing's happening, but I'm not that concerned because we're friends.
[00:10:34]  Well, what had happened was I had run several of my loans through her because I couldn't loan.
[00:10:42]  Run the loans through my own company because I own the company.
[00:10:44]  It's not an arm's length transaction.
[00:10:47]  And so, anyway, those loans were rental properties and stuff.
[00:10:52]  No payments had been missed or anything, but it was not an arm's length transaction.
[00:10:57]  And the FBI came in and she wore a wire on me.
[00:11:00]  She and her husband wore a wire on me.
[00:11:02]  And they said, Hey, look, the FBI is asking questions about you.
[00:11:04]  And I went, Oh my God, you didn't tell them this, did you?
[00:11:07]  You didn't tell them this.
[00:11:07]  So I started saying, I just buried myself, not realizing she's wired.
[00:11:11]  And halfway through the conversation, I realized it.
[00:11:13]  And I said, Oh man, that's fucked up.
[00:11:16]  I got up and I left.
[00:11:17]  FBI contacts me.
[00:11:19]  I end up hiring an attorney.
[00:11:21]  I gave him like $75,000 to plead me out.
[00:11:24]  So he pleads me out for $75,000.
[00:11:27]  So he pleads me out.
[00:11:28]  I accept a plea deal.
[00:11:30]  Well, there was no dollar loss.
[00:11:31]  So if there's no dollar loss, you don't have a record, you're not going to go to jail.
[00:11:34]  There was no even potential dollar loss, which means you could have lost.
[00:11:37]  You didn't lose the money, but you could have.
[00:11:39]  There was no potential.
[00:11:39]  So I get three years paper, but now I can't own the mortgage company anymore.
[00:11:45]  That's an issue because that's how I made my money.
[00:11:47]  I was married.
[00:11:48]  I just gotten a divorce.
[00:11:50]  My child supports a couple thousand dollars.
[00:11:52]  I gave her whatever it's like in, in with everything combined, it was like a hundred thousand dollars.
[00:11:58]  So I'm just wiped out.
[00:12:00]  So I'm starting over from scratch with no real way to make any money.
[00:12:06]  And by that point, I'd figured out how to make fake people.
[00:12:12]  Does that make sense?
[00:12:13]  Fake identities.
[00:12:14]  Well, yeah, there's synthetic identities, for example.
[00:12:22]  I figured I want to start buying houses in Ybor City, fix them up and sell them.
[00:12:27]  The problem with Ybor City and Tampa Heights area is that the dollar amount is so low, you're dealing with lower middle class people and they tend to switch jobs.
[00:12:35]  They have bad credit.
[00:12:37]  They don't have disposable income, so they tend to have bad credit.
[00:12:39]  So the issue is I bought a house, I fixed it up, I go to sell the house.
[00:12:43]  Two or three of the borrowers that want to buy the house can't even qualify.
[00:12:47]  So I'm either committing fraud to try and get them to qualify, or it's an issue.
[00:12:51]  So I realized right away, even if you commit fraud, you'd be shocked how many people, like, everything's good.
[00:12:56]  You've committed fraud to just massage the loan just to get it to close.
[00:13:01]  And the people would still. sabotage it.
[00:13:03]  They quit their job three days beforehand.
[00:13:05]  So the lender calls and the one thing you did have was a job.
[00:13:08]  The lender now calls and you don't have a job anymore.
[00:13:11]  So it's like your credit's jacked up.
[00:13:14]  You don't have a down payment.
[00:13:15]  You have no job.
[00:13:19]  You have no rental history.
[00:13:20]  I mean, this is just bad all the way around.
[00:13:22]  I mean, you're basically, I don't even know why I'm dealing with you at all.
[00:13:26]  And that's kind of what it got.
[00:13:27]  It came to the point where I realized I don't really need these guys.
[00:13:30]  If I could figure out how to just create fake borrowers.
[00:13:34]  then I'd be in a better situation.
[00:13:37]  And so that's what happened was I'd had a woman come in earlier, like a year earlier, and she'd come in and she had perfect credit.
[00:13:47]  But when I got her W-2s, the social security number didn't match her W-2s, and the name was slightly different.
[00:13:54]  And what she told me she'd done was she'd gotten divorced, and her husband had stuck her with a bunch of bills, and she needed to get her electric turned on.
[00:14:05]  So she said she was using her maiden name.
[00:14:07]  She said switched back to her maiden name and she used her son, her like two-year-old son's social security number and went in to get her, the electric turned on.
[00:14:17]  She said, this is my name.
[00:14:18]  This is my Sosh.
[00:14:20]  This is the address.
[00:14:21]  So they don't have the old address.
[00:14:22]  She didn't want to use the old address.
[00:14:25]  She had a new Sosh.
[00:14:26]  She had a different name.
[00:14:28]  So it was so different, it created a new credit profile.
[00:14:33]  And so she explained it to me and I went, I don't understand.
[00:14:36]  You've got, you've got like 700 credit scores.
[00:14:39]  You've got a, A car loan.
[00:14:40]  She goes, yeah.
[00:14:41]  I said, using your son's social security number.
[00:14:44]  She goes, yeah, about two years ago.
[00:14:45]  And I went, you've got a Dillard's card.
[00:14:48]  She goes, using my son's social security number.
[00:14:50]  I said, you've got this.
[00:14:51]  And she goes, yeah.
[00:14:51]  She said, so what are we going to do about the W 2s?
[00:14:53]  And I went, I want to switch them.
[00:14:54]  I put the new social on there.

=== Switching Social Security Numbers (15:08) ===

[00:14:56]  Right.
[00:14:57]  And bam, she got like 100% financing.
[00:14:59]  She bought like $150,000 house and it was perfect and everybody's happy.
[00:15:02]  Well, I mean, I was happy.
[00:15:04]  I don't know.
[00:15:04]  Clearly it was fraud.
[00:15:05]  Right, right.
[00:15:06]  Everyone's happy except the feds.
[00:15:09]  Yeah.
[00:15:09]  They're not very happy.
[00:15:10]  They're not very happy.
[00:15:11]  I don't know.
[00:15:12]  But so what happened was.
[00:15:14]  I had realized that that was something.
[00:15:16]  And what happens is ultimately I end up figuring out how to get Social Security to issue Social Security numbers for kids that don't exist.
[00:15:26]  I started making fake birth certificates for kids that are like 10 months old.
[00:15:31]  Because if you say that the child is, let's say, over 12 months, you have to show up with the baby.
[00:15:38]  I don't have a baby to show up with.
[00:15:39]  Right.
[00:15:39]  So that's not going to work.
[00:15:40]  Right.
[00:15:41]  So I said, okay, well, 10 month old.
[00:15:43]  And I have a degree in fine arts.
[00:15:44]  So coming up with the actual birth certificate was pretty easy.
[00:15:47]  Yeah.
[00:15:47]  So I played with it.
[00:15:48]  I ordered the security doc.
[00:15:50]  How did you create it?
[00:15:51]  Yeah.
[00:15:51]  How do you make it back then?
[00:15:52]  I'm sure you're not just typing it up.
[00:15:54]  You don't have Photoshop nowadays.
[00:15:55]  No.
[00:15:55]  Well, there was Photoshop, but I didn't use Photoshop.
[00:15:59]  I mean, what I did was I'd gotten one from South Carolina in the name of another guy, and I ordered the security paper, you know, where you copied it says void if copied.
[00:16:15]  So I ordered the security paper, and then I just made a template that I would run the security paper through a copy machine, and it would lay out the template, and I just typed out in Word exactly what it was supposed to say.
[00:16:26]  So now I just print it.
[00:16:27]  I'm printing on it.
[00:16:29]  So I've got these papers.
[00:16:30]  These birth certificates with templates and i'm printing new information on them and I would get a.
[00:16:38]  I got a.
[00:16:38]  Uh, what do you call the um, the seal?
[00:16:42]  Yeah, you know you can't go.
[00:16:43]  You can't go in and say I need a seal for so stamp in it.
[00:16:46]  You can't.
[00:16:47]  Oh okay yeah, yeah.
[00:16:48]  But the problem is is you can't do that, like I can't go in and say hey, I need one for this, for Hillsborough County, vital certificate.
[00:16:53]  Yeah, they don't do that, they will do that.
[00:16:55]  So what you do instead is, I said I need one for, you know, Hillsborough County uh, vital rec or vital.
[00:17:01]  What did I say?
[00:17:02]  No, virtual records office or something, which is kind of close.
[00:17:05]  And then I took sandpaper and sanded it down a little bit because they look worn after a while anyway.
[00:17:10]  And then I use that.
[00:17:11]  And of course, they don't check them.
[00:17:12]  It's not like they're holding them up, feeling like they're not.
[00:17:14]  Yeah, they don't look at that.
[00:17:14]  They just look to see if they just grab it like that.
[00:17:16]  And they go, okay, thank you.
[00:17:17]  And you need a shot record.
[00:17:18]  So I had to make a shot record for a 10-month-old baby.
[00:17:21]  So I made a shot record.
[00:17:23]  So then I just went into Social Security number, Social Security, sorry, and I said, hey, my name's Joe so-and-so.
[00:17:28]  I gave him a driver's license, fake driver's license.
[00:17:32]  They looked at the, a little more complicated.
[00:17:35]  Anyway, they looked at the documents.
[00:17:36]  They checked.
[00:17:36]  They go, you're right.
[00:17:37]  Your son doesn't have a social security number.
[00:17:39]  I go, yeah, I know.
[00:17:39]  And they go, okay, well, we'll go ahead and order one.
[00:17:42]  If they'd ask why, they'd say, was he born in a hospital?
[00:17:45]  I go, no, no, he was born with a midwife.
[00:17:48]  I remember the first one I did was for, anyway, I ended up, it's irrelevant.
[00:17:57]  The point is that I did it.
[00:17:59]  They ordered the thing.
[00:18:00]  Ten days later, bam, I get a social security card.
[00:18:02]  And I started ordering these.
[00:18:04]  First, it was in real people's names.
[00:18:06]  And then I started using the names, like I used Lee Black, the name Lee Black.
[00:18:12]  Did you ever see Reservoir Dogs?
[00:18:14]  Yeah.
[00:18:14]  Yeah.
[00:18:14]  Okay.
[00:18:15]  I used Lee Black.
[00:18:16]  I used Brandon Green, James Red, William Blue.
[00:18:20]  Oh, man.
[00:18:21]  David Silva.
[00:18:24]  So I then turned around and I went and I started buying houses and eBoards.
[00:18:30]  So I would get everybody secured credit cards.
[00:18:33]  So everybody gets three secured credit cards.
[00:18:34]  I barely put anything on them and I make the minimum payments.
[00:18:38]  So you've got.
[00:18:40]  A $300 credit card, a $200 credit card, a $500 credit card, and they have very little money, 20, 30, 40 bucks on each one.
[00:18:46]  Well, in six months, the credit bureaus generate credit scores.
[00:18:51]  So now you've got these guys come out of the gate, 710, 720 credit scores.
[00:18:56]  So you've got a 720 credit score.
[00:18:57]  Well, the minimum credit score back then to get a 95% loan was 620.
[00:19:04]  So they've got 710.
[00:19:05]  Wow.
[00:19:06]  And they've got employment for two or three years because I'm making the W 2s and pay subs.
[00:19:11]  Yeah.
[00:19:12]  And so.
[00:19:13]  They've got canceled checks because I was able to figure out how to make it look like a canceled check.
[00:19:18]  So I'd make 24 months canceled checks.
[00:19:20]  So I'm sending perfect packages in.
[00:19:23]  So what I did was I turned around and I went and I bought, started buying houses in Ybor City.
[00:19:29]  I would buy a house for $40,000 and I'd buy, and I, in the name of, let's say, Alan Duncan or Brandon Green.
[00:19:37]  So I buy it for $40,000.
[00:19:38]  And that's somebody you created up.
[00:19:40]  Completely fictitious person.
[00:19:41]  So I then turn around.
[00:19:43]  It's a synthetic.
[00:19:43]  They call them now.
[00:19:44]  They call them, like back then, it was just a phantom borrower.
[00:19:47]  But now they call them synthetic identities.
[00:19:50]  So I turned around, I would go to public records.
[00:19:52]  I was dating a girl at a title company and she explained to me that if you paid the additional doc stamps, document stamps on a sale, then the sale shows up higher.
[00:20:04]  So I bought it for $40,000, but if I pay an extra $700 to $900, it'll show up for $160,000.
[00:20:13]  You have to do the math, but $160,000 or $140,000 sale.
[00:20:16]  So the house I just bought for $40,000 now looks like I bought it for $160,000 or $200,000 or $190,000, whatever I want.
[00:20:23]  I based it off square footage.
[00:20:24]  I started saying, okay, you know, $110, $120 a square foot in Ybor City.
[00:20:29]  Yeah.
[00:20:29]  So I'm buying houses that are 1,400 square feet that are appraised, that I'm recording the value.
[00:20:35]  I'm buying for 40, recording the value or the sale at 190, 180.
[00:20:41]  But I bought one in the name Brandon Green, one in the name James Red.
[00:20:45]  Yeah.
[00:20:45]  So I've got one here, one here, one here.
[00:20:46]  So I started buying them all over.
[00:20:47]  What happens is when you send out the appraiser, the appraiser goes in and says, man, what a piece of garbage house this is.
[00:20:53]  I cleaned it up a little bit.
[00:20:55]  Right.
[00:20:55]  But he'd be like, this is a rough area.
[00:20:57]  And I said, yeah.
[00:20:58]  You bought it for 190?
[00:20:59]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:00]  This whole area is going up.
[00:21:02]  Yeah.
[00:21:02]  They go, yeah, I know, but Jesus.
[00:21:05]  And he goes, well, you know, there's comparables everywhere, though.
[00:21:08]  You know, that house over there sold for 190?
[00:21:10]  No.
[00:21:11]  That one over there sold for 200?
[00:21:13]  And you own them all?
[00:21:14]  Of course.
[00:21:15]  Right.
[00:21:15]  So you're telling him the whole neighborhood's going up?
[00:21:17]  That's insane.
[00:21:18]  You have the ad?
[00:21:18]  Of course.
[00:21:19]  And so I write down the addresses for him.
[00:21:21]  He's like, yeah, I'll check that out.
[00:21:22]  Comes back.
[00:21:23]  He goes, I can't believe it.
[00:21:23]  I got you an appraisal for $190,000.
[00:21:26]  That's crazy.
[00:21:27]  Thank you so much.
[00:21:28]  Well, then I take that.
[00:21:29]  I send it in to the lender.
[00:21:32]  The lender says, yeah, well, I mean, there's documents that have to support it, of course.
[00:21:35]  So I have supporting documents because, of course, I'm making those documents.
[00:21:39]  And if they would need it to be verified, well, I'll come up with a cell phone or I'll come up with a landline or a website.
[00:21:47]  Whatever I need to come up with, I'm going to come up with.
[00:21:49]  I have a degree in fine arts.
[00:21:50]  I'm fairly creative.
[00:21:51]  So, you know, I'd come up with the documents and the verifications.
[00:21:58]  And since I'd been in the mortgage industry, I knew what they were going to ask for.
[00:22:01]  What are they looking for?
[00:22:03]  What's the tax ID number?
[00:22:04]  Where are they going to look for it?
[00:22:05]  How can I piggyback off of a real tax ID number on a W 2 and they won't verify it?
[00:22:10]  Or if they do try and call it, they'll call, they'll go online and they'll look it up in the, what used to be the business white pages.
[00:22:18]  Well, you can go online and put your business on it.
[00:22:20]  So now they're calling a cell phone that's in the name of a guy that doesn't exist to verify it.
[00:22:25]  Or there's something called HQ.
[00:22:27]  Have you ever heard of HQ?
[00:22:28]  It's a, they're these offices that you can rent.
[00:22:31]  They'll be on like the 30th floor down some building downtown offices.
[00:22:34]  Well, they'll also, for, 40 or 50 bucks, they'll answer your phone.
[00:22:37]  They'll forward them.
[00:22:38]  They'll collect your mail.
[00:22:39]  They'll forward your mail.
[00:22:40]  So it seems like you've got a real deal business in there.
[00:22:43]  Yeah.
[00:22:43]  I've got a real business, real business card address.
[00:22:46]  So these loans start closing.
[00:22:47]  I'm buying them for 40, fixing them up for 10, borrowing 150, walking away with $100,000.
[00:22:54]  And each guy, I'm buying at least five or six houses.
[00:22:58]  So you're getting about a million dollars worth of loans.
[00:23:00]  You're walking away with $500,000 or $600,000.
[00:23:06]  Wow.
[00:23:06]  Like a charm for a long time.
[00:23:07]  How long did you do it for?
[00:23:08]  About two years.
[00:23:09]  About two years.
[00:23:10]  11.5 million is what we borrowed in about two years.
[00:23:14]  So.
[00:23:15]  And every time the loan would go through, the first payment would always default?
[00:23:20]  No, no.
[00:23:20]  Of course, I'm not an idiot.
[00:23:22]  I mean, I would pay three, four, five months.
[00:23:25]  Okay.
[00:23:26]  Sometimes I'd rent them out.
[00:23:27]  Sometimes I just, if the place was so trashed, I'd just make the payments for at least three or four months.
[00:23:32]  Keep in mind, too, I'd then turn around and I'd borrow personal loans.
[00:23:35]  I'd then get about $30,000, $40,000 worth of credit cards.
[00:23:37]  Because now this guy's got multiple mortgages.
[00:23:39]  Right.
[00:23:40]  He's got perfect credit.
[00:23:42]  So now I can borrow.
[00:23:44]  I can get a bunch of credit cards.
[00:23:45]  I get a bunch of credit cards.
[00:23:47]  Those guys were worth about $500,000, $600,000.
[00:23:48]  So I'd pull the money out, you know, and we would do really just stupid things, you know.
[00:23:53]  I had like a drawer filled up with socks that I'm never going to wear.
[00:23:57]  I've got 60 pairs of underwear that, you know, it's just stupid.
[00:24:00]  You don't even know what to do.
[00:24:01]  You don't really know.
[00:24:02]  And I'm thinking it's going to last forever because I'd figured out that when they would go into foreclosure, they'd start going into foreclosure, they start sending letters.
[00:24:12]  And I'd get the letters and I would take an article from like, let's say, the Tampa Tribune.
[00:24:19]  Of a five car pileup or a 20 car pileup.
[00:24:23]  And I retype the entire article and I'd insert my guy's name, James Red, into the article.
[00:24:31]  And it'd say James Red was life flighted to Tampa General Hospital.
[00:24:35]  And so I would print out the article on newsprint and make a copy of that.
[00:24:39]  Then I'd write a letter from James Red's sister and saying, Listen, my brother was in an accident.
[00:24:47]  Here's the article highlighted.
[00:24:49]  The doctors say, even if he wakes up, from the coma, he'll never work again.
[00:24:52]  Yeah, you might as well go ahead and foreclose on the house, and so they just stop sending in the letters.
[00:24:57]  Yeah, they just foreclose.
[00:24:58]  They just they make a few phone calls but they get that letter, it's over.
[00:25:01]  They take the house back and they never come looking.
[00:25:04]  So it worked really well.
[00:25:06]  Yeah, sounds like it.
[00:25:08]  So for a long time.
[00:25:10]  Crazy, you got to make sure you cover all your ends and stuff.
[00:25:13]  You know yeah I, I did.
[00:25:15]  You know I, I. There were one or two times when, for instance, there was a buddy of mine.
[00:25:21]  Uh, he's in Tampa and still in real estate.
[00:25:25]  So I won't mention his name.
[00:25:26]  He was in charge of making the payments on this one guy.
[00:25:29]  It was like, look, I'm juggling.
[00:25:31]  Right.
[00:25:31]  You're juggling eight people.
[00:25:34]  Yeah.
[00:25:34]  Everybody's sharing in the profit.
[00:25:36]  You got 10 grand from the last one.
[00:25:38]  You got 20.
[00:25:38]  You got 15.
[00:25:40]  You know, I can't be expected to make all of these payments.
[00:25:43]  Yeah.
[00:25:43]  Keep up with them.
[00:25:44]  Right.
[00:25:44]  So here, here's red.
[00:25:46]  You're going to make the payments for it.
[00:25:47]  No, I remember it was Alan Duncan.
[00:25:50]  It was Alan Duncan because it was one of my first ones I'd done.
[00:25:53]  And he's about to foreclose.
[00:25:55]  So I'm like, here's Duncan, you make the payments on the house we just bought, which was like the last house.
[00:25:59]  We're going to make a few payments.
[00:26:00]  All of them are going to foreclosure.
[00:26:03]  So he didn't make the first payment.
[00:26:05]  And I remember the mortgage broker, she comes to my house and she says, oh my God, who was it?
[00:26:13]  Who was it?
[00:26:13]  Oh my God.
[00:26:14]  Oh, it's South Star Bank.
[00:26:17]  South Star Bank, I don't know if they're still around, but South Star Bank just called.
[00:26:22]  They can't get a hold of Alan Duncan.
[00:26:25]  They said they know that.
[00:26:27]  The bank accounts are fake.
[00:26:29]  They know, like they just started, we know this, we know this, we know this.
[00:26:33]  You've got a problem.
[00:26:34]  So I find out, I go to the guy, I said, What happened?
[00:26:39]  And he says, Oh my God, I forgot to make the first payment.
[00:26:41]  I didn't know it was due already.
[00:26:43]  So I get them on, I get South Star on the phone.
[00:26:45]  I call up and I say, Listen, this is Alan Duncan.
[00:26:47]  I need to just talk with this guy.
[00:26:50]  I forget what his name was.
[00:26:51]  Let's say Mr. Johnson.
[00:26:52]  And they go, Oh, he's in a meeting.
[00:26:54]  I said, Well, this is Alan Duncan.
[00:26:55]  I assure you he wants to talk to me immediately.
[00:26:58]  Please.
[00:26:59]  interrupt the meeting.
[00:27:01]  It's extremely important.
[00:27:02]  So the secretary interrupts and boom, they put me on the phone and it's their head of fraud department, some lawyer, and like a vice president of the bank.
[00:27:13]  Wow.
[00:27:13]  And they're like, okay, Mr. Duncan?
[00:27:15]  And I'm like, yes.
[00:27:16]  They're like, okay, well, we've been, we spent quite a bit of time looking over your, you know, your, your file here.
[00:27:23]  Yeah.
[00:27:23]  And I'm like, okay.
[00:27:24]  And they said, we got a $140,000 loan to a man that doesn't exist because we know you don't exist.
[00:27:29]  And I'm like, okay, well, Listen, I'm not sure where this is coming from.
[00:27:33]  I mean, I understand I missed a payment.
[00:27:37]  I'm putting it in the mail today.
[00:27:38]  We should have this all today.
[00:27:39]  Oh, no, it's too late for that.
[00:27:41]  It's too late for that.
[00:27:42]  And so I went, okay, well, let me catch up the payment.
[00:27:45]  And he's like, no, no, no.
[00:27:46]  He's like, look, you know, we're going to submit this to the FBI.
[00:27:51]  We're going to do a full investigation.
[00:27:52]  You're going to end up, I remember he kept saying like a, it was something like a six by six or an eight by eight concrete box.
[00:27:59]  I remember he kept saying that.
[00:28:00]  You're going to end up in an eight by eight concrete box.
[00:28:03]  And anyway, I said to him, you know, they were real cocky about it.
[00:28:08]  And I'd been caught before.
[00:28:09]  I got caught one time with $2 million, but the loans had already been, part of the package had already been sold to the household bank and the lender, He wasn't willing to push the issue because it was several million dollars.
[00:28:20]  He was going to be on the hook for it.
[00:28:22]  So he just continued to sell the paper.
[00:28:24]  And so he let me off and came back and told me to keep sending loans.
[00:28:29]  This is when I owned the mortgage company.
[00:28:30]  But these guys were cocky.
[00:28:32]  And I remember thinking, so as we're talking, I was like, okay, they're really cocky about this.
[00:28:38]  And so at one point I said, okay, I don't understand.
[00:28:41]  I said, aren't you guys concerned about getting your money back?
[00:28:44]  I mean, I'm trying to give you your money back here.
[00:28:47]  And they said, oh, we'll get our money back when we foreclose on the property.
[00:28:50]  And I went, Oh, I said, now I get it.
[00:28:54]  You think that your $140,000 loan is attached to a property worth $180,000?
[00:29:00]  And they're like, right.
[00:29:02]  I said, no.
[00:29:04]  Now things, I could always like, now things are going to shift in my favor.
[00:29:07]  I can feel it.
[00:29:08]  So I said, okay, let me explain what I did.
[00:29:11]  Do you have the appraisal in front of you?
[00:29:15]  Yeah.
[00:29:15]  So I'd send them obviously our appraisal.
[00:29:18]  They'd done what's called a desktop review where they review it.
[00:29:21]  But they don't actually go out to the property.
[00:29:22]  They just review it.
[00:29:23]  They have an appraiser review it.
[00:29:25]  And I explained, look, take a look at comp number one.
[00:29:28]  That's owned by a guy named Lee Black.
[00:29:30]  Comp number two, James Redd.
[00:29:32]  Comp number three, David Silver.
[00:29:35]  And I explained what I did.
[00:29:37]  I did this, paid the doc stance, boom, boom, boom.
[00:29:39]  So you told them all.
[00:29:40]  I have to at this point.
[00:29:41]  I got to try and convince them.
[00:29:42]  That's your only angle, Ethan.
[00:29:43]  Right.
[00:29:44]  I'm done anyway.
[00:29:45]  Yeah.
[00:29:46]  So I said, look, here's the deal.
[00:29:48]  And so they're like, oh my God.
[00:29:50]  I said, right.
[00:29:51]  So I said, as you can see, you now, you have a piece of property that I bought for $40,000.
[00:29:56]  I paid an extra $1,100 to get it to appraise at $180.
[00:30:01]  The appraiser had everybody involved.
[00:30:03]  The appraiser did exactly what he's supposed to do.

=== Dating a Mortgage Broker (12:37) ===

[00:30:05]  He didn't do anything wrong.
[00:30:05]  The mortgage broker has never seen me.
[00:30:07]  She did everything by the telephone.
[00:30:08]  She doesn't have any clue what's going on.
[00:30:10]  Every single document was provided by me.
[00:30:13]  You lent the money.
[00:30:13]  Your underwriters lent the money doing exactly what they do.
[00:30:17]  Everybody involved in the transaction does what they do on a daily basis, and I walked away with the money.
[00:30:20]  Now, if you want to get your money back, you'll let me cut you a check, and you'll agree not to contact the FBI.
[00:30:28]  So we end up working out an agreement.
[00:30:30]  Where they let me cut them a check back.
[00:30:32]  And that's not the only time that happened.
[00:30:34]  I've had it happen with Washington Mutual, we'd done like eight owner occupied properties one time.
[00:30:41]  You understand, an owner occupied property is like your house is an owner occupied property, right?
[00:30:45]  If you go buy a rental property, it's a rental property.
[00:30:47]  They lend you about 80%, maybe 70%.
[00:30:49]  Well, I had a realtor that had bought eight duplexes.
[00:30:54]  All of them we said were owner occupied with eight different lenders.
[00:30:57]  Got caught that time.
[00:30:59]  Ended up that several of those.
[00:31:02]  Duplexes were on Washington Mutual's credit lines with different lenders, and they all, Washington Mutual ended up with all of them.
[00:31:09]  And they figured out, we've got three, not all eight, but they had like three.
[00:31:13]  So their lawyer contacted us and said, Look, this is what you did.
[00:31:16]  This is illegal.
[00:31:17]  This is this, this is that.
[00:31:18]  And of course, they don't even know that the W 2s are fake.
[00:31:20]  They don't even know how bad it is.
[00:31:22]  So I convinced them to take like $30,000 less money to just let us refinance them.
[00:31:28]  And the lawyer accepted that.
[00:31:30]  He was okay with that.
[00:31:31]  Really?
[00:31:31]  It's insane.
[00:31:32]  That is crazy.
[00:31:33]  What's stopping them from taking the check and then turning you in?
[00:31:36]  Yeah, I mean, and that happened.
[00:31:38]  You know, I've got a story when I was on the run where I actually had to go to a lawyer.
[00:31:42]  I didn't trust the guy.
[00:31:43]  So, I actually went to a lawyer.
[00:31:46]  And keep in mind, too, that they've caught me.
[00:31:49]  They're getting the money back.
[00:31:50]  I mean, it doesn't necessarily make them look good either.
[00:31:52]  Nobody wants to be a part of fraud.
[00:31:53]  And you don't want, like the one guy, which was a pinnacle bank where they'd caught me with the $2 million.
[00:31:59]  This guy doesn't, he doesn't, and even said to me, look, nobody wants the FBI going through their files.
[00:32:04]  Right.
[00:32:05]  Because it's got to think of the industry at that time was so dirty.
[00:32:07]  Right.
[00:32:08]  And it probably opens up for multiple other people like you who are doing the same thing.
[00:32:11]  Right.
[00:32:11]  Who knows what they're doing?
[00:32:12]  Right.
[00:32:13]  Right.
[00:32:13]  On top of that.
[00:32:14]  Well, what ultimately happened was.
[00:32:19]  Allison Arnold, the girl with the brown hair in that.
[00:32:22]  Yeah.
[00:32:23]  In the American Greed.
[00:32:25]  Yeah.
[00:32:28]  She and I, we were dating and we decided to do a scam.
[00:32:36]  Now, this is after all this is over.
[00:32:38]  Oh, yeah.
[00:32:38]  No, I'm still in Tampa.
[00:32:40]  I'm still running.
[00:32:42]  I'm consulting with the mortgage brokerage business.
[00:32:45]  I'd sold it because I couldn't own it anymore.
[00:32:47]  So I had a buddy of mine named Dave Walker who was running the company.
[00:32:50]  So I'm still going in and committing fraud on a regular basis.
[00:32:55]  Does Dave Walker have a pulse?
[00:32:57]  I don't know what happened to Dave.
[00:32:58]  I mean, he wasn't a.
[00:33:00]  Oh, no, he's a real guy.
[00:33:00]  Okay, okay.
[00:33:01]  It sounds like a made up name, right?
[00:33:02]  Right, right, right.
[00:33:05]  So does Danny Jones.
[00:33:05]  Yeah.
[00:33:06]  That's a pretty good generic one.
[00:33:07]  Yeah, it was very generic.
[00:33:09]  We did a loan and she dyed her hair black and she was pretending to be a person named, a real person named Rosita Perez.
[00:33:23]  Mm hmm.
[00:33:23]  And.
[00:33:24]  See, I didn't have any fake, any women.
[00:33:27]  And Rosita Perez, a broker that I knew, she had said that this woman had somehow or another wronged her.
[00:33:36]  They'd gotten to a fight.
[00:33:37]  She hated her.
[00:33:38]  She'd cost her $10,000 in damages to her house, whatever the case may be.
[00:33:43]  I don't know how she justified it or I justified it.
[00:33:46]  But somehow or another, Allison, we decided Allison was going to impersonate her.
[00:33:50]  And I made a fake license.
[00:33:52]  And Allison, the woman, it was a real picture of Allison.
[00:33:56]  She dyed her hair black.
[00:33:58]  She goes into the closing.
[00:33:59]  We had several closings, about half a million dollars worth of closing set up.
[00:34:02]  We bought a house.
[00:34:03]  We satisfied the loans on the house.
[00:34:07]  And Allison was, Rosita Perez was going to borrow like half a million dollars.
[00:34:12]  We had several loans set up on the same house.
[00:34:15]  And she goes into the first one and she gets a check for like 100 and change.
[00:34:18]  I don't know what it was, 110, 120,000, something like that.
[00:34:22]  So she gets it.
[00:34:23]  The next loan she goes in to get, to close, she signs the paperwork, but the woman looks at her and she says, You don't look like your picture.
[00:34:29]  Yeah, I saw that in the American Greetings.
[00:34:31]  The picture was her, though.
[00:34:33]  It was her.
[00:34:33]  Oh, really?
[00:34:34]  Yeah, that was what was so strange.
[00:34:36]  The picture was Allison, but Allison had changed her hair like a couple of days beforehand.
[00:34:42]  She dyed it black for the photo and then dyed it back.
[00:34:45]  And I remember going, what are you doing?
[00:34:47]  Why would you dye your hair?
[00:34:49]  And she's like, I'm like, your name is Rosita Perez.
[00:34:52]  And she's like, no, it's fine.
[00:34:54]  It's still my picture.
[00:34:55]  And it was her picture.
[00:34:57]  So it was like, yeah, okay.
[00:34:59]  You know, there's any number of reasons her name would be Perez.
[00:35:02]  Okay.
[00:35:02]  Although she's pale, green eyes.
[00:35:07]  Now she's got brown hair with blonde highlights, and she goes in, and the woman has an issue with it, and they put a fraud alert on the check because the woman starts making phone calls, and she finds out very quickly that the property was supposed to be in someone else's name.
[00:35:24]  We changed the name of the property.
[00:35:26]  She calls another title company.
[00:35:28]  It unravels very quickly.
[00:35:30]  Yeah.
[00:35:30]  And.
[00:35:31]  A buddy of mine was running a scam in Orlando, and he had a bank account.
[00:35:36]  And so Allison couldn't open a bank account.
[00:35:39]  So we gave the check to this my buddy He ends up putting it in his bank account He gets a call a couple days later from well now but keep in mind there's a flag on a red flag It's it's been it's there's a like an alert on the check so they get alerted and the bank calls him and says hey, by the way, can you come in and sign the back of the check?
[00:36:01]  He goes, I did sign it.
[00:36:02]  Yeah, but because it's over a hundred thousand dollars.
[00:36:03]  We need to witness it and so I remember he's going to the bank and I said I called him and I said, Hey, what's going on?
[00:36:09]  He said, Oh, the manager called me.
[00:36:12]  He needs me to come in.
[00:36:13]  I said, Something doesn't sound right about that.
[00:36:15]  Never heard of that.
[00:36:17]  I've deposited lots of checks for over $100,000.
[00:36:20]  Nobody's ever said they had to witness my signature.
[00:36:23]  Anyway, he's like, No, it's fine.
[00:36:24]  It's fine.
[00:36:26]  He goes in the bank.
[00:36:27]  He gets arrested.
[00:36:29]  So they let him go.
[00:36:37]  He says he didn't cooperate.
[00:36:39]  You know, and start the investigation.
[00:36:41]  I know differently.
[00:36:42]  But hey, he's a friend of mine, and I like the guy, and I grew up with him, and he's a nice guy, and he's in a bad spot, and, you know, and I love him to death.
[00:36:49]  And so a task force is put together to investigate me.
[00:36:55]  And how hard is it to prove that this is a fraud?
[00:36:58]  All you got to do is go on Hillsborough County tax collectors' tax appraisers' website and say green, blue, red.
[00:37:07]  I mean, not the most brilliant.
[00:37:10]  At the time, it seemed really cute.
[00:37:11]  Right.
[00:37:11]  It just seems fun, right?
[00:37:12]  Not the most brilliant.
[00:37:14]  brilliant of all the things I've done.
[00:37:16]  So very quickly they realized, okay.
[00:37:19]  You're like the Riddler or real estate bro.
[00:37:21]  Yeah, he's stupid.
[00:37:22]  He's stupid.
[00:37:23]  So I look back and I think, what were you thinking?
[00:37:26]  When did you think that was going to be?
[00:37:27]  How'd you think that was going to be okay?
[00:37:29]  So they put it together and months later, you know, months later, I'm dating, I just started dating another girl by the name of Rebecca Halk.
[00:37:44]  And I just started dating her.
[00:37:48]  Single mother.
[00:37:49]  Another single mother.
[00:37:50]  Single mother.
[00:37:51]  Yeah.
[00:37:51]  I, you know, really irritated about the whole American greed single mother thing.
[00:37:57]  They had some good producers on that episode.
[00:37:59]  God, they really did.
[00:38:00]  It is to spice it up a little bit.
[00:38:01]  Yeah, but I mean, it's.
[00:38:02]  They're a little.
[00:38:04]  What I already did, isn't it bad enough?
[00:38:07]  Yeah.
[00:38:08]  You know, do we have to say he was also mean to children and small animals?
[00:38:13]  I mean, what are you doing?
[00:38:15]  It's bad enough.
[00:38:16]  Yeah.
[00:38:16]  So.
[00:38:17]  Anyway, so I just started dating her.
[00:38:20]  And so one day, I'd date this girl like a month.
[00:38:26]  Okay.
[00:38:26]  So I don't even know this girl.
[00:38:28]  So I go to work one day, and this guy, a sheriff's deputy that I knew, his name was Steve Sutton.
[00:38:35]  And I'd done like a million dollars worth of real estate for him, got him.
[00:38:39]  So he comes in one day and he says, Listen, I got to talk to you.
[00:38:42]  And I go, Yeah, what's up, man?
[00:38:43]  You know, hey, buddy, what's up?
[00:38:45]  Hey, talk.
[00:38:45]  Imagine how bad this day was.
[00:38:48]  I'm like, Yeah, what's going on?
[00:38:49]  He says, I used to date a girl on the Tampa PD.
[00:38:54]  Okay.
[00:38:56]  He said she was a part of a task force recently that was just handed to the FBI.
[00:39:02]  He said the task force was on you.
[00:39:04]  They're going to arrest you in a couple of days.
[00:39:06]  My name came up because of all the real estate you've done.
[00:39:09]  He said she came to his house in the morning at like 6 o'clock in the morning, knocked on his door and said, don't talk to Cox anymore.
[00:39:15]  They're arresting him in a couple of days.
[00:39:17]  Holy shit.
[00:39:17]  So he said, I just thought I wanted to tell you.
[00:39:20]  We're friends.
[00:39:21]  I wanted to let you know.
[00:39:22]  Yeah.
[00:39:22]  He said, I'm.
[00:39:23]  I'm not going to talk to you anymore.
[00:39:23]  I don't know what to do.
[00:39:25]  And I said, you know, don't do anything.
[00:39:27]  You don't know anything.
[00:39:28]  You're not going to get in trouble because you don't know anything.
[00:39:30]  Just say you came to me.
[00:39:32]  You needed a loan.
[00:39:33]  I got you the loan.
[00:39:33]  That's all you know.
[00:39:35]  You know, you're not a mortgage broker.
[00:39:36]  You don't know.
[00:39:37]  So he said, okay.
[00:39:38]  He goes, what are you going to do?
[00:39:39]  I said, I'm leaving.
[00:39:40]  I'm already on federal probation.
[00:39:42]  Yeah.
[00:39:43]  Jesus.
[00:39:43]  So I'm already on federal probation for the first one.
[00:39:46]  I mean, that's pretty bad.
[00:39:47]  What am I going to do?
[00:39:48]  The judge wasn't happy the first time.
[00:39:51]  He's pissed.
[00:39:52]  I can imagine going back in on 11 and a half million.
[00:39:56]  That's not going to work out well for me.
[00:39:58]  No.
[00:39:58]  So I thought, yeah, I'm, you know, all I know about prison is Shawshank redemption.
[00:40:05]  I can't go to prison.
[00:40:06]  Look at me.
[00:40:08]  I mean, I was, it was 15 years ago.
[00:40:11]  I was a lot prettier, but dear God, I can't go to prison.
[00:40:14]  I'm as soft as cotton.
[00:40:16]  Being pretty is not necessarily good for prison.
[00:40:19]  Yeah, I'm like, I can't do this.
[00:40:21]  I got to go.
[00:40:22]  Yeah.
[00:40:22]  So I, I could, it was, it was like a Thursday.
[00:40:25]  Literally the next day, I got out 80 grand in cash.
[00:40:28]  That's all I could do.
[00:40:28]  We, we had probably a million or so dollars in the bank, but you know, you can't go in and say, give me a million.
[00:40:34]  Yeah.
[00:40:35]  I'm sending people in with checks for 9,000, 8,000.
[00:40:37]  People will start to figure it out too.
[00:40:39]  And you go, hey, look, can you go cash 7,000?
[00:40:41]  Yeah, man, I, I can't.
[00:40:43]  They're realizing you look panic-stricken and something's wrong.
[00:40:49]  So it's like, okay, I understand.
[00:40:51]  So I get out like 80 grand, pack my bags.
[00:40:55]  Becky happens to come by.
[00:40:57]  We were supposed to go out like Friday night or something, and she sees me and she's like, what are you doing?
[00:41:00]  I'm packing my bags.
[00:41:00]  I'm like, what are you doing here?
[00:41:02]  She's like, hey, I'm ready.
[00:41:03]  What are you doing?
[00:41:04]  I'm ready to go to dinner.
[00:41:05]  And I'm like, you haven't been answering your phone?
[00:41:07]  I was like, fuck, I got a problem.
[00:41:11]  So I tell her, and she tells me, I want to come with you.
[00:41:16]  She wants to hit the road.
[00:41:17]  We didn't want to come with her.
[00:41:18]  Are you crazy?
[00:41:20]  You've got a son?
[00:41:22]  And she's like, no, you don't understand.
[00:41:24]  She said, basically, he'd basically been raised by his father.
[00:41:30]  I brought him down here.
[00:41:31]  I can't handle him.
[00:41:32]  He's been picked up twice after curfew.
[00:41:35]  He got caught smoking pot.
[00:41:36]  He's failing his grades.
[00:41:37]  He was going back in December anyway, or at the end of, he was going back anyway.
[00:41:42]  I'm sorry, at the end of the school year, it was December, the first part of December.
[00:41:46]  And so.
[00:41:47]  I'm going, I don't, okay, well, we don't even know each other.
[00:41:50]  I'm like, no offense.
[00:41:51]  I remember telling her, look, this is never going to become love for me.
[00:41:55]  You know what I mean?
[00:41:56]  It's been a week, and I mean, it's been a month, but you know, this isn't happening.
[00:42:00]  And she's like, look, I don't care about that.
[00:42:03]  She said, look, you don't even, and I was like, look, you have a normal life.
[00:42:05]  You have a family.
[00:42:06]  Remember, she told me, she said, you don't even know why I came to Florida.
[00:42:11]  She said, I got caught stealing.
[00:42:13]  She had been caught stealing money from her boss, which was a casino lawyer.
[00:42:20]  And he didn't turn her in because, and she was using the money to gamble.
[00:42:25]  So she owed him like 10 or 12, 15,000, something like that.
[00:42:28]  So he says, Look, I'm going to send you to Florida to work for the dog track.
[00:42:33]  He didn't turn her in because she's sleeping with him.
[00:42:37]  Doesn't want the wife to find out.
[00:42:38]  So he sends her to Florida.
[00:42:39]  She meets me.
[00:42:40]  I'm going on the run.
[00:42:41]  She wants in.

=== Stealing from a Casino Lawyer (15:09) ===

[00:42:42]  Damn.
[00:42:43]  So you're an adulteress, thieving.
[00:42:45]  Yeah.
[00:42:46]  You know, so all attributes, by the way.
[00:42:49]  She's perfect.
[00:42:50]  Perfect.
[00:42:50]  You're just like, yeah.
[00:42:52]  It's a solid argument.
[00:42:53]  Yeah.
[00:42:54]  So she comes.
[00:42:55]  So I said, okay, you know, you can come with me.
[00:42:58]  So she comes with me.
[00:43:00]  We go straight to Atlanta.
[00:43:03]  She rents a house.
[00:43:05]  We remove, take the, I assume the guy who owns the house's identity.
[00:43:11]  And I borrow like $400,000.
[00:43:15]  And I pull the money out.
[00:43:16]  We pull the money out and we take off.
[00:43:18]  So now we got about $400,000.
[00:43:19]  We have 80s and 50s.
[00:43:21]  You rented the house from, you rented a house in Atlanta, right?
[00:43:24]  In a neighborhood in Atlanta.
[00:43:25]  Right.
[00:43:26]  And then, How did you get the $400,000?
[00:43:29]  The $400,000?
[00:43:30]  Rented a house for like $190.
[00:43:32]  It was valued about $190.
[00:43:33]  So the value of that house was $190 if it was.
[00:43:35]  Right.
[00:43:36]  Right.
[00:43:36]  So we're paying whatever it is, $1,300, $1,400 a month in rent.
[00:43:40]  And so what I did was I went downtown and he had two loans on the house from Bank of America.
[00:43:47]  And I created a satisfaction of mortgage.
[00:43:50]  Remember I told you I dated a girl who worked for a title company.
[00:43:53]  So I know how a satisfaction, what a satisfaction looks like.
[00:43:57]  So I create a satisfaction of mortgage.
[00:43:59]  I then go back down and I record it.
[00:44:02]  Well, what happens is if you have a mortgage, for instance, your house right now, you've got a whatever, $200,000, $300,000 mortgage on the house to, let's say, Bank of America.
[00:44:12]  Okay.
[00:44:12]  Well, when you pay that off, how does public records know it's paid off?
[00:44:16]  Right.
[00:44:17]  Bank of America gets their $300,000.
[00:44:19]  Well, what they do is they then create a satisfaction of mortgage.
[00:44:23]  They then mail it in with $7 to Hillsborough County.
[00:44:28]  Right.
[00:44:28]  Or where are we at?
[00:44:29]  Pinellas or something?
[00:44:30]  Pinellas County Public Records.
[00:44:32]  And they say, hey, the mortgage that was taken out to Danny Jones on this day, For this amount of money is hereby satisfied with this loan number or whatever number is hereby satisfied.
[00:44:43]  The guy who owned this house had no clue that his mortgage was now satisfied.
[00:44:48]  Oh, no, no, two of them.
[00:44:49]  Wow.
[00:44:49]  So he has no clue.
[00:44:51]  And all I did was make a fake ID.
[00:44:53]  I figured out how to make like a fake ID.
[00:44:55]  So I don't even have a real ID at this point.
[00:44:57]  I just made a fake one.
[00:44:58]  I mean, I did, I started going.
[00:45:00]  What happened was I realized, look, making the fake ID is a problem.
[00:45:03]  You got to use the laminates, you have to get, you have to overcome the issue of the, uh, of the hologram.
[00:45:08]  I mean, you have to rewrite.
[00:45:10]  It's a pain in the ass.
[00:45:11]  So it's much easier to just go into the DMV and get you to issue a license in somebody's name.
[00:45:16]  You get them to print it for you.
[00:45:18]  Right.
[00:45:18]  So they print it up.
[00:45:19]  So it's easier to just steal someone's identity.
[00:45:21]  So I very quickly realized that.
[00:45:23]  But at this point, I needed his ID.
[00:45:26]  So I made, I didn't even have his real middle name.
[00:45:30]  So I just made up like it was like S.
[00:45:32]  Well, it's like the middle name.
[00:45:32]  It was like Sean.
[00:45:35]  So I end up making a name.
[00:45:38]  I don't have his real date of birth.
[00:45:40]  Keep in mind, I just need to go in and get a check.
[00:45:42]  Yeah.
[00:45:43]  I don't even have his social security number.
[00:45:45]  I just need the same name on the ID because I'm borrowing from hard money lenders.
[00:45:49]  So they charge like 14% interest.
[00:45:51]  Right, right.
[00:45:52]  And so, matter of fact, those guys, a couple of them were on American Greed.
[00:45:57]  Yeah.
[00:45:57]  There were three.
[00:45:58]  There were three.
[00:45:58]  One lent like 110, one lent 150, another one lent 150.
[00:46:01]  Total came to like $400,000 roughly.
[00:46:04]  Wow.
[00:46:05]  And how, when you get the loans from the hard money lenders, They can't see that there's other hard money lenders giving you.
[00:46:15]  Well, no, it's called a shotgunning scam.
[00:46:17]  Shotgunning.
[00:46:17]  And so what happens is you do it so quickly.
[00:46:19]  You apply with multiple lenders and you close within a day or two of each other.
[00:46:24]  And if you do that, what happens is the documents are prepared at the title company.
[00:46:29]  You sign, you get your check.
[00:46:30]  Well, a couple of days later, when they've got all their paperwork done, they mail it in.
[00:46:35]  So these things get mailed into public records saying this loan, there's a new mortgage on this property.
[00:46:41]  Please record it.
[00:46:42]  And here's the payment.
[00:46:43]  For that.
[00:46:43]  And they go, okay.
[00:46:44]  So public records puts it down and they go, okay, here's the address.
[00:46:47]  Here's the folio number.
[00:46:49]  Here's this.
[00:46:49]  Okay, okay, boom, recorded.
[00:46:51]  Two days later, another one shows up.
[00:46:53]  Yeah.
[00:46:53]  Wow.
[00:46:54]  They go, okay, same thing.
[00:46:55]  There.
[00:46:56]  Oh, boom.
[00:46:57]  Another loan, another mortgage.
[00:46:59]  Two hours later, boom.
[00:47:00]  Oh, same one.
[00:47:01]  Keep in mind, this woman has, she's doing this.
[00:47:03]  That's all she does.
[00:47:04]  All day.
[00:47:05]  So she doesn't even recognize the number.
[00:47:07]  Even if she did, it's irrelevant.
[00:47:08]  Yeah.
[00:47:09]  You're allowed to have three or four mortgages on the same property.
[00:47:11]  She has no idea what it's valued at.
[00:47:13]  It's a recording system, not a verification system.
[00:47:15]  They simply record documents that are mailed in that you pay for.
[00:47:18]  And so they get it, boom, record it, record it, record it.
[00:47:20]  So I've got $400,000.
[00:47:22]  I go open a couple bank accounts.
[00:47:24]  I deposit the checks.
[00:47:25]  I remove the cash.
[00:47:28]  And that's a funny story.
[00:47:30]  This is a funny story.
[00:47:32]  So, I go in, I get a real driver's license, right?
[00:47:36]  In the name of a guy named Scott Cugno.
[00:47:39]  So, I got a Scott Cugno driver's license, real license.
[00:47:43]  I have this real Soch, everything.
[00:47:45]  So, one of the checks I had issued to Scott Cugno for $29,000.
[00:47:50]  So, I go into Sun Trust.
[00:47:54]  I walk into Sun Trust and I say, Hi, I'm Scott Cugno.
[00:47:59]  I need to cash this.
[00:48:01]  And the guy goes, $29,000.
[00:48:03]  Why don't you just deposit in your own bank account, Mr. Kucknow?
[00:48:05]  And I said, well, because my bank account, you know, I'm in Georgia, it's in Florida.
[00:48:09]  I'm going to hold it for a few days and I need the cash.
[00:48:12]  Okay.
[00:48:13]  Well, okay.
[00:48:14]  Well, it's really odd.
[00:48:15]  And, you know, okay.
[00:48:16]  Well, here's my driver's license.
[00:48:18]  Here's my credit card, driver's license.
[00:48:20]  Here's my social security card.
[00:48:21]  Yeah.
[00:48:21]  I'm good.
[00:48:22]  You need a thumbprint?
[00:48:24]  Thumbprint.
[00:48:25]  I'm already wanted.
[00:48:26]  Yeah.
[00:48:27]  So, you know, he's like, okay, well, go ahead and have a seat.
[00:48:30]  I have a seat.
[00:48:31]  My cell phone, give me my cell phone is your razor phone.
[00:48:34]  My razor.
[00:48:35]  It's a razor, Motorola razor.
[00:48:36]  Motorola razor.
[00:48:38]  is there and Becky's sitting in the car.
[00:48:41]  So I wait.
[00:48:42]  The guy comes out and he says, okay, this is like the president, well, whatever, the manager of the bank.
[00:48:48]  He comes out and he goes, okay, he said, look, why don't, I don't understand.
[00:48:52]  What do you need the cash for?
[00:48:53]  And I went, I said, we're, I cash checks.
[00:48:57]  I said, I'm a general contractor.
[00:48:59]  I just did a job for somebody.
[00:49:00]  They paid me with this money.
[00:49:02]  And I have to, I said, I typically write checks to the guys that work for me and I cash the checks so they don't have to go to check cashing companies.
[00:49:08]  And he goes, okay, that makes sense.
[00:49:10]  That makes sense.
[00:49:11]  He knows something's wrong.
[00:49:13]  Right.
[00:49:13]  Right.
[00:49:14]  He just can't figure it out.
[00:49:15]  Right.
[00:49:15]  He walks off.
[00:49:16]  But I'm not leaving.
[00:49:17]  Yeah.
[00:49:18]  If something's wrong and you start asking those questions, you would leave.
[00:49:22]  Most people would leave.
[00:49:23]  But I know you can't.
[00:49:24]  I'm thinking he can't.
[00:49:26]  He's not going to figure this out.
[00:49:27]  Yeah.
[00:49:27]  So the phone rings.
[00:49:29]  Boom, boom.
[00:49:30]  Phone rings.
[00:49:30]  I pick it up.
[00:49:31]  It's Becky.
[00:49:32]  She goes, hey.
[00:49:33]  She said, what are you doing?
[00:49:34]  What's taking so long?
[00:49:34]  And I went, calm down.
[00:49:36]  The guy is, he's a jerk.
[00:49:37]  You know, he's being a jerk about it.
[00:49:38]  He didn't want to give me the money.
[00:49:39]  Well, then leave.
[00:49:40]  I go, no, no, I can't leave.
[00:49:41]  I said, he's, he's, He's checking on stuff.
[00:49:44]  So she goes, Well, I go, Look, look, calm down.
[00:49:47]  She's all nervous.
[00:49:48]  Yeah, if the cops show up, if you see two cruisers pull in, call me.
[00:49:53]  I'll run out the back.
[00:49:54]  You meet me at the 7 Eleven down the street.
[00:49:57]  So she's like, Okay, okay, hang up the phone.
[00:50:01]  A few minutes later, he comes out.
[00:50:02]  He asks some other question What about this?
[00:50:05]  What about that?
[00:50:05]  I'm like, Where'd you get the check?
[00:50:09]  I said, I got the check from the homeowner.
[00:50:12]  And he goes, Okay.
[00:50:14]  And I said, wait, I don't understand what's taking so long.
[00:50:16]  I said, it's a cashier's check written from your bank.
[00:50:22]  Yeah.
[00:50:22]  The money's good.
[00:50:24]  Yeah.
[00:50:24]  He's like, no, the money's there.
[00:50:25]  It's just we have to, there are certain protocols we have to go through.
[00:50:28]  I said, okay, okay.
[00:50:29]  So he leaves.
[00:50:31]  Phone rings again.
[00:50:33]  What's taking so long?
[00:50:34]  I don't know.
[00:50:35]  The guy's a dick.
[00:50:36]  I don't know what to say.
[00:50:36]  He's taking forever.
[00:50:38]  He's checking.
[00:50:39]  Checking on what?
[00:50:40]  I don't know.
[00:50:40]  Comes out again.
[00:50:42]  And I said, hey, what is taking so long?
[00:50:43]  And he goes, Well, we're trying to, he said, turns out that the name of the guy is Michael Shanahan, the guy that owns the house.
[00:50:49]  And I went, oh, keep in mind, I'm Michael Shanahan.
[00:50:52]  Right, you're Michael Shanahan.
[00:50:53]  So I went, okay.
[00:50:55]  And he says, and we're just trying to get a hold of Mr. Shanahan.
[00:50:58]  He's the guy you did the work for.
[00:50:59]  I said, right.
[00:50:59]  He goes, we're just trying to verify the check with him.
[00:51:01]  They're now trying to get in contact with Michael Shanahan.
[00:51:04]  Wow.
[00:51:05]  Who I've pretended to be using this phone.
[00:51:07]  Right.
[00:51:08]  And I've already signed it for the check.
[00:51:10]  I borrowed $400,000.
[00:51:11]  So I'm like, Jesus H. Christ.
[00:51:13]  So the phone rings again.
[00:51:14]  It's Becky.
[00:51:14]  Boom.
[00:51:15]  Hey, what's going on?
[00:51:16]  She goes, What is taking so long?
[00:51:17]  I said, He's trying to verify the check with Michael Shanahan.
[00:51:22]  It was complete silence.
[00:51:24]  Oh, shit.
[00:51:25]  And she just suddenly goes, Get out of that bank!
[00:51:28]  Get out!
[00:51:28]  I'm like, I can't get out of the bank.
[00:51:30]  I'm walking out with the money.
[00:51:32]  If the cops show up, call me.
[00:51:34]  And I hang up the phone.
[00:51:36]  So I'm sitting there.
[00:51:37]  The phone rings again.
[00:51:38]  I look at the phone.
[00:51:40]  I don't recognize the number.
[00:51:41]  It's the bank.
[00:51:42]  It's the bank.
[00:51:44]  I pick up the phone.
[00:51:45]  I go, hello.
[00:51:45]  They go, hi, Michael Shanahan.
[00:51:48]  This is Jennifer from SunTrust Bank.
[00:51:50]  And I'm like, she's right behind you.
[00:51:53]  She's behind the window behind the truck.
[00:51:55]  She's right behind you.
[00:51:56]  I'm in a glass cubicle.
[00:51:57]  And I'm like, you're looking right at her as she's talking to you.
[00:52:01]  Yes.
[00:52:01]  And she goes, hi.
[00:52:04]  We have a Scott Cugno here at the bank.
[00:52:06]  He's trying to cash a check that apparently you had issued off of a refinance that you made.
[00:52:12]  And I go, yes.
[00:52:14]  We just need you to verify the amount and that it's Mr. I go, yeah, I believe it's Scott Cugno.
[00:52:17]  I'm pretty sure it was for $29,000 even.
[00:52:21]  And she's like, that's right.
[00:52:22]  And I appreciate it.
[00:52:23]  And thank you very much.
[00:52:23]  And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[00:52:25]  Real quick.
[00:52:25]  I said, how did you get my number?
[00:52:26]  This is numbers unlisted.
[00:52:27]  She goes, oh, we called the title company and they gave us the phone number.
[00:52:33]  Had she called information, she'd have gotten the Michael Schiff.
[00:52:37]  The real guy.
[00:52:38]  But she called the title company because they did have that.
[00:52:40]  That's where they banked.
[00:52:41]  Right.
[00:52:41]  So she called them.
[00:52:42]  They gave her the number.
[00:52:43]  They called.
[00:52:43]  I said, okay.
[00:52:44]  She's, I hope it's not a problem.
[00:52:45]  Not a problem.
[00:52:45]  No big deal.
[00:52:45]  Thank you very much.
[00:52:46]  Boom.
[00:52:46]  Hang up the phone.
[00:52:47]  Sorry.
[00:52:48]  Wow.
[00:52:49]  So, yeah.
[00:52:50]  So the guy walks out five minutes later, counts out $29,000 and stares at me.
[00:52:56]  And he gives me the $29,000.
[00:52:58]  And I remember I'm cautious, but I'm also feeling real cocky.
[00:53:02]  Oh, yeah.
[00:53:03]  So I stand up and he goes, Mr. Mr. Cugno, he said, I'd like to let you know I feel very apprehensive about this transaction.
[00:53:11]  I go, Really?
[00:53:13]  What is it exactly?
[00:53:14]  I'm now stuffing money in my pocket.
[00:53:16]  What is it exactly?
[00:53:17]  And he goes, He said, I can't put my finger on it.
[00:53:21]  And I go, I'm sure it'll come to you.
[00:53:23]  And I walk off.
[00:53:24]  I get in the car, tell Becky what happened.
[00:53:26]  I'm like, You're not going to believe this.
[00:53:28]  Oh, shit.
[00:53:29]  Drive off.
[00:53:29]  I mean, she's like, Oh, my God.
[00:53:31]  Oh, my God.
[00:53:32]  I never even tried to cash a check for that large.
[00:53:34]  Ever since then, it was.
[00:53:36]  Always under 29.
[00:53:36]  It was always under 10,000.
[00:53:38]  Wow.
[00:53:38]  Because over that, they give you, they investigate it more.
[00:53:41]  Well, yeah.
[00:53:42]  I mean, I don't know.
[00:53:43]  But that, keep in mind, I had been doing like 9,000, 7,000, 8,000, 9,000.
[00:53:47]  Yeah, no problem.
[00:53:48]  No problem.
[00:53:48]  And then I, one time I finally went, you know, this is taking forever.
[00:53:52]  I'm just going to start.
[00:53:53]  What do I care?
[00:53:53]  They can fill out a CCR.
[00:53:55]  I don't care.
[00:53:56]  Call the IRS.
[00:53:56]  I'll be gone before they show up.
[00:53:58]  So I didn't care, you know, which was a mistake because had he made just the wrong call, it's just luck.
[00:54:04]  Oh, yeah.
[00:54:05]  And they call you when you're in the bank.
[00:54:06]  That's crazy.
[00:54:08]  That's insane.
[00:54:09]  We got all the money.
[00:54:10]  We take off.
[00:54:16]  We left with the $400,000 and change.
[00:54:22]  What did we do?
[00:54:23]  Oh, yeah.
[00:54:24]  No, it was more than that.
[00:54:25]  You left the house in Atlanta.
[00:54:27]  Yeah, because where did you go after that?
[00:54:29]  Well, you know what's funny is I totally neglected to mention the other, like, we borrowed money.
[00:54:34]  We'd also gone into Tallahassee and done the same thing in Tallahassee.
[00:54:37]  Oh, really?
[00:54:38]  But that was uneventful.
[00:54:40]  That was uneventful.
[00:54:41]  It was just a regular old scam.
[00:54:44]  We had more than $400,000.
[00:54:45]  So why is it only $400,000?
[00:54:46]  Oh, that's right.
[00:54:47]  There was that other one.
[00:54:48]  It's pretty bad when you forget about it.
[00:54:50]  You start forgetting about the $100,000 you stole here or the $200,000 here.
[00:54:55]  And you're like, that's right.
[00:54:58]  Now, what happens?
[00:54:59]  I feel bad about that.
[00:55:00]  Don't judge me.
[00:55:01]  He's judging you.
[00:55:02]  He's got this look like this.
[00:55:04]  What happened to the actual Michael Shanahan, the owner of the house?
[00:55:07]  Very upset, Michael Shanahan.
[00:55:08]  So is he out of all that?
[00:55:11]  His house has now paid off.
[00:55:12]  Well, yeah, they don't look at it.
[00:55:14]  But it's not really paid off.
[00:55:15]  So, what actually happens?
[00:55:16]  What happens is he can claim against the title insurance.
[00:55:22]  Okay.
[00:55:23]  And that's one of the things that I, you know, it's like I very easily justified in my mind, I'm just borrowing money from the bank.
[00:55:32]  And I never really thought I was screwing over those people that own the house.
[00:55:36]  Because of insurance.
[00:55:37]  Because I always got title insurance.
[00:55:39]  And for example, the guys in the show, American Greed, they talk about how one of the guys got paid back from the title insurance and the other guy says he didn't get paid back.
[00:55:50]  Now, it's my understanding that all of them had gotten paid back.
[00:55:57]  But in the show, he says he didn't get paid back.
[00:56:00]  So he may not have been paid back.
[00:56:02]  I'm not sure how that's possible.
[00:56:04]  I mean, the title policy.
[00:56:06]  It's been produced that way.
[00:56:07]  Well, I think maybe they just fought it.
[00:56:10]  But I mean, look, you've got a title policy that insures you against fraud.
[00:56:18]  One of them is, or clouded title, whatever the case may be.
[00:56:22]  It was very clear that it covered fraud.
[00:56:25]  He should have been paid back.
[00:56:26]  Now, whether he was or not, I don't know.
[00:56:28]  He says he wasn't.
[00:56:29]  He's not listed, as far as I can tell.
[00:56:32]  On the people that I have to pay back.
[00:56:35]  I believe that the title agency that he got the loan from probably paid them back, but somebody owns that agency and I probably owe them the money.
[00:56:42]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:56:42]  So it's like, look, somebody somewhere got dicked over.
[00:56:45]  Right.
[00:56:46]  So we take the money, we go to Charlotte, North Carolina.
[00:56:51]  How much money did you have at that time?
[00:56:52]  I don't know, like $500,000, $600,000.
[00:56:54]  Cash.
[00:56:54]  Right.
[00:56:55]  In cash.
[00:56:55]  In a little duffel bag.
[00:56:57]  You ever see those guys?
[00:56:58]  It's like half a million dollars.
[00:57:00]  It's a huge amount.
[00:57:00]  And they're like, are those in ones?
[00:57:03]  Is that stripper money?
[00:57:05]  Because.
[00:57:06]  That's not in the 20s and 50s.
[00:57:08]  It's not that much money.
[00:57:10]  So we go to Charlotte.
[00:57:11]  We go downtown.
[00:57:12]  We rent a place, an amazing condo downtown Charlotte, like a couple thousand dollars a month.
[00:57:18]  And 15 years ago, that was a lot.
[00:57:21]  A lot.
[00:57:22]  Charlotte was amazing.
[00:57:23]  We lived there.
[00:57:24]  We got new cars.
[00:57:26]  So we're driving like brand new Infinities.
[00:57:29]  And what did Becky get?
[00:57:32]  She had two cars.
[00:57:34]  Keep this going.
[00:57:34]  I'm going to pee real quick.
[00:57:35]  All right.
[00:57:36]  Sorry.
[00:57:37]  That's good.
[00:57:38]  I told you I could go on and I'm giving you I'm giving you the this is like the condensed version.
[00:57:43]  No, yeah, this is good.
[00:57:46]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[00:57:47]  I yeah, no, it's the best type of guest to have, honestly.
[00:57:50]  Oh, is it?

=== Renting Luxury Condos Downtown (12:44) ===

[00:57:51]  Oh, yeah, for sure.
[00:57:52]  I'll just talk and talk.
[00:57:53]  No, it's ridiculous.
[00:57:54]  The stories are super fascinating.
[00:57:56]  So you guys are living in Atlanta at that time or North Carolina?
[00:58:02]  North Carolina.
[00:58:03]  So we go to Charlotte.
[00:58:06]  You know, we set up there.
[00:58:07]  We hang out for like a month or so.
[00:58:09]  Yeah, I think we ended up going on vacation.
[00:58:11]  We went to Where do we go?
[00:58:13]  What's the plan at that point?
[00:58:15]  There's no plan.
[00:58:16]  You're just rolling with it.
[00:58:17]  I mean, the plan is get three, four, five million dollars, something like that.
[00:58:22]  And, you know, and I don't even know.
[00:58:27]  Take off, retire, invest it in real estate, do something.
[00:58:31]  You know, and you're just going to bounce around, build up as much as you think you can.
[00:58:35]  The plan was don't get caught and go to prison.
[00:58:37]  Yeah.
[00:58:38]  So I, in Charlotte, that's where we got.
[00:58:43]  A tremendous amount of plastic surgery.
[00:58:46]  I think Becky had already gotten like a boob job or a breast job.
[00:58:51]  What's the politically correct version of boob job, as far as I know?
[00:58:54]  Yeah, boob job.
[00:58:55]  That's what I call them.
[00:58:57]  So she got, you know, what she called the twins.
[00:59:01]  So she got a boob job.
[00:59:03]  Then we went to Charlotte.
[00:59:04]  We got, I got a surgery again, additional surgery like liposuction, that sort of thing.
[00:59:12]  And really, to be honest, she was smoking hot.
[00:59:15]  Anyway, you know what I'm saying?
[00:59:16]  She had the whole pink thing going on.
[00:59:19]  She had the short haircut.
[00:59:20]  She was cute.
[00:59:22]  She probably weighed 110 pounds.
[00:59:24]  She probably weighed 115 when I met her.
[00:59:26]  Now she's got five pounds of silicone and she's down to 110.
[00:59:30]  We're jogging.
[00:59:31]  We're working out.
[00:59:33]  We've got great clothes, great cars.
[00:59:34]  I think she mentioned she's got Rolexes.
[00:59:38]  She's got diamonds.
[00:59:39]  She's got everything she wanted.
[00:59:42]  But the money's going.
[00:59:44]  Yeah, it's spending fast, right?
[00:59:44]  Yeah, you buy a $60,000 vehicle, another one for this.
[00:59:48]  Even if you finance them, it's $20,000 down.
[00:59:50]  We don't have really any credit at this point.
[00:59:52]  We're just starting credit over.
[00:59:54]  But we'd figured out, I'd figured out. that how to get fake IDs or, sorry, real IDs, but in fake people.
[01:00:01]  Right.
[01:00:02]  What happened was we were sitting at a light one day and I was like, the problem with this whole situation is that, for instance, I'd started using other people's IDs.
[01:00:13]  I ran an ad in the newspaper and people would call up to, because I realized I can't make a fake ID.
[01:00:19]  I can't get pulled over by the police and give them a fake plastic ID, a fake ID.
[01:00:22]  They're not going to make it back to their car.
[01:00:24]  A cop's going to go, okay, that dude's, you're done, get out.
[01:00:27]  You know, he's a bank, okay.
[01:00:30]  But not a patrolman.
[01:00:33]  So I realized we need real IDs.
[01:00:37]  And so when we were in Atlanta, we started acquiring real people, real IDs.
[01:00:41]  And what I did was initially I put ads in the newspaper for it was like home loans available, good credit, bad credit, no problem.
[01:00:49]  You pay a couple hundred bucks and you get 20 calls a day for the four or five days.
[01:00:54]  And people are calling up to try and get home loans.
[01:00:56]  And it doesn't matter if they have good credit or bad credit.
[01:01:00]  license.
[01:01:00]  Right.
[01:01:00]  You just want some info.
[01:01:01]  Right.
[01:01:02]  So I start asking questions, you know, and I've done it a thousand times, you know, you know, I've done, I've taken a thousand applications.
[01:01:08]  So it's, you know, hey, name, date of birth, social security number.
[01:01:10]  Where do you live?
[01:01:11]  What's your, what's your, how many kids you have?
[01:01:14]  You know, you know, where do you work?
[01:01:16]  What's your phone number?
[01:01:17]  What's the address?
[01:01:18]  Rambling right off.
[01:01:19]  And then you get to the last page, which is like, it's a bunch of statistical questions for the federal government.
[01:01:26]  And then as you, you just add one or two in there.
[01:01:28]  Where were you born?
[01:01:29]  What county and state were you born in?
[01:01:31]  What's your mother's maiden name?
[01:01:33]  By this point, they're just answering everything.
[01:01:36]  Yeah, they spewed all the info.
[01:01:38]  They don't realize in the course of answering 30 questions, you've given me enough to steal your identity.
[01:01:42]  Wow.
[01:01:44]  And that's what you did with a homeless guy, right?
[01:01:45]  Right.
[01:01:45]  Well, initially, it was real people.
[01:01:48]  But one of those guys was a guy named Michael Eckert.
[01:01:51]  And Michael Eckert had told me specifically when I was asking all these questions at the very end, he goes, oh, wait a minute.
[01:01:57]  He said, I'm a felon.
[01:01:59]  No, not a felon.
[01:01:59]  He goes, he said, I just got my driver's license back.
[01:02:04]  No, he said, I think he did say I'm a felon.
[01:02:06]  He said, I'm a felon, but it was like a DUI.
[01:02:08]  And I went, Do you have a driver's license?
[01:02:10]  He goes, Yeah, yeah, I just got it back like a year ago.
[01:02:12]  And I thought, for him to have lost his license and be a felon, he had to have lost it multiple times before it becomes like a felony.
[01:02:20]  So at that time, I mean, I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
[01:02:23]  So I just remember thinking, You're a felon from a DUI for some reason, or even if it wasn't from the DUI, I'm assuming it was.
[01:02:31]  I'm thinking, What if he loses his license again?
[01:02:35]  I could be driving around with the guys.
[01:02:36]  I could have a car, two cars, an apartment, credit card, everything in a guy's name.
[01:02:40]  Because, see, what I would do is I would pair them with social security numbers that were recently issued.
[01:02:45]  I would go straight into social security number and get a social security card issued to Michael Eckert.
[01:02:50]  And I'd get a whole new credit profile based on him.
[01:02:53]  New address, new everything.
[01:02:56]  Lots of people had the name Michael Eckert.
[01:02:57]  I changed the middle name slightly.
[01:03:00]  Boom, credit profile, 700 credit scores.
[01:03:03]  Buy a bunch of buy a car house, whatever.
[01:03:05]  My point is, is that I'm driving around.
[01:03:06]  What if I get pulled over?
[01:03:07]  This guy's got a DUI.
[01:03:08]  I go to jail.
[01:03:09]  I get fingerprinted.
[01:03:09]  I'm done.
[01:03:11]  Right.
[01:03:11]  So, and Becky and I, we talked about that multiple times.
[01:03:15]  What if you get grabbed?
[01:03:16]  And I was like, look, worst case scenarios at this time, I don't know if this is how it works now, but this was over 15 years ago.
[01:03:22]  I was like, worst case scenario is if I get grabbed and they bring me downtown and they fingerprint me, they won't run the prints right away.
[01:03:30]  They only run them right away through APHIS if your identity is in question.
[01:03:35]  Keep in mind, my identity won't be in question because I have a real driver's license.
[01:03:40]  So if it's not in question, they're going to fingerprint me.
[01:03:43]  You can get me.
[01:03:44]  It'll be something stupid that I get arrested for.
[01:03:46]  So you can easily get me out within 24 hours.
[01:03:49]  You get me out before they run my prints, and we're gone.
[01:03:53]  And she was like, okay, okay, okay.
[01:03:54]  Because a lot of these small towns and stuff, they don't run your prints right away.
[01:03:57]  They do them in batches, or they don't, you know, they don't, it wasn't back then.
[01:04:01]  There was no, it wasn't the digital scanner thing.
[01:04:03]  It was printing you.
[01:04:03]  Yeah, they're printing you.
[01:04:04]  Right.
[01:04:05]  So even if when they did have them, they don't necessarily run them.
[01:04:09]  They get charged for running them.
[01:04:10]  And your identity is not in question.
[01:04:13]  So we talked about that.
[01:04:15]  Anyway, my point is, I started stealing the identities of real people, but one day we're sitting at a red light.
[01:04:21]  And I said, what we need is an identity of someone who isn't really using their identity.
[01:04:26]  And she's like, what?
[01:04:27]  I said, I don't know.
[01:04:27]  She's like, mental patients, something.
[01:04:30]  I was like, what about people that died?
[01:04:32]  And I said, no, because when you die, it gets registered so that they can get the death benefit of $250.
[01:04:38]  And so Social Security knows you're dead.
[01:04:41]  So it shows up on your credit profile.
[01:04:43]  So I can't use those.
[01:04:44]  It's no good.
[01:04:45]  You need permanent IDs.
[01:04:47]  And I went, she's like, well, like who?
[01:04:48]  And I went, and there was a guy standing there holding a home.
[01:04:52]  we, you know, hungry, we'll work for food.
[01:04:54]  So I go like that guy.
[01:04:55]  Yeah.
[01:04:56]  That's just the bum.
[01:04:57]  I was like, yes.
[01:04:59]  So we pull over.
[01:05:00]  I go up to the guy.
[01:05:01]  I go, hey, man, what's up?
[01:05:01]  He's like, what's up?
[01:05:02]  I said, can I ask you some questions real quick?
[01:05:04]  I'll give you 20 bucks right now.
[01:05:06]  Five minutes.
[01:05:07]  He's like, yeah, what's up?
[01:05:08]  And I start asking him questions.
[01:05:10]  Do you have a felony?
[01:05:11]  Do you have a driver's license?
[01:05:13]  How'd you lose your license?
[01:05:14]  Was it a DUI?
[01:05:15]  Was it, you know, and it wasn't.
[01:05:17]  He didn't have a DUI.
[01:05:18]  He just expired.
[01:05:19]  He doesn't have a car.
[01:05:20]  How would I get a DUI?
[01:05:21]  Right.
[01:05:23]  You know, I've been arrested multiple times.
[01:05:25]  I don't have a felony, though.
[01:05:26]  I have a bunch of misdemeanors.
[01:05:27]  So as you start, so I came up with a statistical survey form where I went around and I would question homeless people.
[01:05:34]  I was trying to get their information to try and determine where we were going to, where the Salvation Army was going to open their next homeless facility.
[01:05:41]  You just give a guy 20 bucks and say, of course he's taking a survey for the Salvation Army.
[01:05:46]  We're trying to determine where we're going to open our next homeless facility.
[01:05:50]  That's what you're telling them.
[01:05:51]  Yeah.
[01:05:51]  And they give him 20 bucks and I take their information.
[01:05:53]  They have no clue.
[01:05:55]  And then I turn around, I order their birth certificate, I order their social security card, I order their high school transcripts, I order everything.
[01:06:02]  I then turn around, I go into a state where they don't have a license.
[01:06:05]  I go into the DMV, hey, just moved to the state, lost my license.
[01:06:09]  Here's my proof.
[01:06:09]  I would register to vote in their name, get the card within a couple of days.
[01:06:13]  Here's my voter's registration card.
[01:06:15]  Here's my birth certificate.
[01:06:16]  Here's my social, and here's my high school transcript.
[01:06:21]  And obviously, I'm a resident of the state.
[01:06:25]  Sometimes I would have a lease for my apartment in the guy's name and they would go, okay great, stand over there, take a picture.
[01:06:31]  Bam bam bam, you got a driver's license.
[01:06:33]  They just print you out the driver's license.
[01:06:35]  I then turn around, I go straight to to um, straight to the passport office.
[01:06:40]  What not straight?
[01:06:40]  A couple days later, go straight there.
[01:06:43]  Here's my birth certificate, here's my driver's license, and they take all the information down.
[01:06:47]  You pay like a 55 fee.
[01:06:49]  They mail it in.
[01:06:50]  Two weeks later you get a passport.
[01:06:52]  So I mean, so what happened was, once we moved from Atlanta, we went to.
[01:06:57]  I mean, we're going everywhere, we're going to.
[01:06:59]  You know, we're going to Las Vegas, we're going to, we go to Jamaica, we're going to, where else?
[01:07:07]  I mean, we're just traveling all over the place.
[01:07:09]  Yeah.
[01:07:10]  So, so I remember we went to Las Vegas and we, this is, this, okay, listen, what time, how much time do we have?
[01:07:22]  Because we got all night.
[01:07:23]  This is a good story, bro.
[01:07:24]  We got all night, man.
[01:07:25]  This is a good story.
[01:07:26]  We got plenty of time.
[01:07:27]  You're going to allow this.
[01:07:27]  This is, this is, and it's horrible.
[01:07:30]  And I feel bad.
[01:07:31]  I like to say, I feel bad about this.
[01:07:33]  Okay, so we go to Las Vegas so Becky can see her son.
[01:07:38]  Yeah.
[01:07:39]  And we give, we hand over some money.
[01:07:41]  Um, And, you know, she, you know, she's handing off money to family and making everybody happy.
[01:07:48]  And she's, we're buying presents and doing all the things that is going to make her feel good.
[01:07:52]  So while we're there, I said, look, let's get, let's, let's get, do some surveys.
[01:07:59]  Yeah.
[01:07:59]  So she goes, oh, my God.
[01:08:01]  So we drive to an area and there were so many homeless people.
[01:08:04]  I was, I was nervous about getting out.
[01:08:05]  That's the first place I thought of with homeless people.
[01:08:07]  I'm like, that'd be perfect.
[01:08:08]  Las Vegas.
[01:08:09]  Well, and I didn't want to pull out, but I didn't want to pull out a lot of money.
[01:08:11]  So I was like, man, there's just too many of them.
[01:08:13]  Oh, yeah.
[01:08:14]  So she goes, okay.
[01:08:15]  So we go to another place.
[01:08:15]  She was bombarded.
[01:08:17]  Well, she went, she goes, okay, another place.
[01:08:19]  She goes, how about these guys?
[01:08:20]  There were a couple guys sitting on a park bench.
[01:08:22]  And they were pretty clean cut.
[01:08:24]  They were so clean cut, I thought, they may not be homeless.
[01:08:28]  So I got out, and one of the guys gets up, he goes, yeah, what's going on?
[01:08:30]  I said, hey, would you mind taking a survey real quick?
[01:08:33]  And this happened all the time.
[01:08:34]  And they go, no, I'm not interested.
[01:08:35]  I paid $20 cash right now.
[01:08:37]  You're going to give me $20 cash right now.
[01:08:39]  Right?
[01:08:39]  Takes three minutes, 17 questions.
[01:08:41]  Yeah, man, what's going on?
[01:08:43]  I started asking the questions.
[01:08:44]  You know his name, Gary Sullivan.
[01:08:47]  Date of birth, social security number, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[01:08:49]  We're going down the thing.
[01:08:50]  I asked, ever been arrested?
[01:08:51]  No hesitation to give you their social?
[01:08:54]  No.
[01:08:54]  Really?
[01:08:55]  No.
[01:08:55]  The few guys that did hesitate, I would always go, okay, well, I have to have it.
[01:09:02]  And I'd say, well, okay.
[01:09:04]  I look at them, I go, okay, well, what would I do with it?
[01:09:08]  And they go, well, you could steal my identity.
[01:09:10]  I go, do you have good credit?
[01:09:12]  Right.
[01:09:12]  They go, no, I got shit credit.
[01:09:15]  I go, okay, well, then what good would it be?
[01:09:17]  Yeah.
[01:09:17]  And they go, do you have a bank account?
[01:09:20]  No.
[01:09:21]  Okay, I don't understand.
[01:09:23]  And if you don't want the $20, it's fine.
[01:09:24]  So it's no big deal.
[01:09:25]  I got somebody.
[01:09:25]  You're a straight talker.
[01:09:27]  No, no, no.
[01:09:28]  Wait a minute.
[01:09:29]  Okay, here it is.
[01:09:31]  But I remember now I want to see the social security card because I don't think you're going to give me a bad fake number.
[01:09:35]  Yeah, I'm just not going to see it.
[01:09:36]  Yeah.
[01:09:37]  So anyway, Gary Sullivan gives me this information.
[01:09:40]  And as we're going down the list, and I start asking, there's random questions I would ask.
[01:09:44]  You ever had a passport?
[01:09:46]  How many states have you had a driver's license in?
[01:09:48]  Which states?
[01:09:48]  That sort of thing.
[01:09:49]  When was the last time you were gainfully employed?
[01:09:53]  And the guy goes, No, I'm not a felony.
[01:09:54]  He goes, I've got a Misdemeanors and I went, Misdemeanors, yeah, he goes, yeah, for prostitution.
[01:10:00]  I went, okay, I went, okay, well, you mean solicitation because you know, my mind, guys get charged with right solicitation, right?
[01:10:12]  Didn't even occur to me.
[01:10:13]  And I went, You mean solicitation?
[01:10:14]  He goes, No, prostitution.
[01:10:15]  He goes, I offered to blow an undercover cop for 20 bucks.
[01:10:19]  Oh my god, and I went, Really?
[01:10:20]  He goes, Yeah, I've been arrested a few times for it.
[01:10:22]  I went, Oh, okay, I said, Wow, I okay, and he goes, Yeah, he said, Well, you know, 20 bucks.
[01:10:28]  Wow.
[01:10:28]  So, and you gave him a survey for 20 years.
[01:10:31]  Yeah, a survey.
[01:10:33]  I'll take 100 surveys.

=== Offering Services for Twenty Bucks (02:35) ===

[01:10:35]  I remember I said, he said, that's what I thought you were here for.
[01:10:39]  And that's what they're hanging out there for.
[01:10:41]  And I went, he goes, this is basically an area where sex traffickers hang out.
[01:10:45]  Oh, shit.
[01:10:46]  Becky knew that.
[01:10:46]  She's sitting in the car laughing.
[01:10:48]  I'm like, unbelievable.
[01:10:51]  So I take his information and I leave, get in the car.
[01:10:55]  She's telling me, talking about my boyfriend, like, oh, what'd your boyfriend say?
[01:10:59]  So we leave.
[01:11:01]  We go back to, Charlotte, we set up, we're all happy.
[01:11:05]  I figure, okay, well, we need some more money.
[01:11:08]  I got to get a couple.
[01:11:09]  I got to get at least a million dollars on the next one.
[01:11:11]  We do.
[01:11:11]  So I go to Columbia, South Carolina.
[01:11:15]  I buy a couple houses.
[01:11:18]  And one of the houses I buy is a house for 200.
[01:11:23]  It's like $230,000.
[01:11:25]  So basically I just got a realtor and we drove around houses and I just put contracts on them, owner financing.
[01:11:30]  I need you to owner finance.
[01:11:31]  I need you to owner finance.
[01:11:33]  And you put five houses, five contracts on five houses, at least one or two of them come back and they want to talk about it.
[01:11:38]  So one of the realtors comes back and says, my clients are, he's a doctor and they're moving to Atlanta and they're interested in doing the owner financing.
[01:11:49]  And I said, okay, cool.
[01:11:51]  So I said, okay, so I'll give you guys 10% down on a $200,000, I think it was $225,000, a $225,000 house.
[01:12:00]  So I'll give you $25,000 down.
[01:12:03]  And you owner financed $200,000.
[01:12:06]  And they had a mortgage on the house for $200,000.
[01:12:08]  So it's called a wraparound mortgage.
[01:12:10]  Okay.
[01:12:11]  So they're going to give me a mortgage that wraps around their mortgage.
[01:12:13]  So I pay them, they pay the mortgage company.
[01:12:15]  Got it.
[01:12:16]  So we go to the closing.
[01:12:18]  We have a closing.
[01:12:20]  And I think Bridget Brown is on the American Greed.
[01:12:26]  I think she's on the American Greed.
[01:12:29]  Pretty sure she is.
[01:12:30]  I don't remember her.
[01:12:31]  Yeah, I remember there were three girls on there.
[01:12:33]  Yeah.
[01:12:34]  Yeah, well, this was Dr. Brown's wife.
[01:12:37]  Okay.
[01:12:37]  And so we go to the closing.
[01:12:39]  Okay.
[01:12:39]  We go to the closing.
[01:12:41]  And.
[01:12:43]  We just have a quick closing.
[01:12:44]  I mean, later on, when I watched America Greed, she says that she talked about how she'd had her identity stolen before.
[01:12:51]  And she says that my eyes got real wide.
[01:12:54]  Is that the lady with the kid?
[01:12:56]  Yes.
[01:12:56]  That was in that show?
[01:12:57]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:12:59]  The sick kid, right?
[01:13:00]  Yes.
[01:13:01]  So we go to the closing.
[01:13:05]  I do remember her saying that.
[01:13:07]  I don't remember my eyes getting wide, but I remember thinking, oh, okay.

=== Closing Deals at Wachovia (15:21) ===

[01:13:10]  I'm just in and out.
[01:13:12]  Right.
[01:13:12]  We're not.
[01:13:13]  Hanging out.
[01:13:13]  We're not making friends.
[01:13:14]  I'm not asking any, any personal questions.
[01:13:17]  She mentions that we sign.
[01:13:19]  I leave.
[01:13:20]  I now own the house in the name of Gary Sullivan's name.
[01:13:24]  So I then turn around and I go and I I go downtown a week or two later and I satisfy the loan on the house in their name the one they had and I satisfy the loan that they had in the name of like Federal Credit Union or something like that federal.
[01:13:40]  Yeah, it was like Federal Savings Credit Union or something bank.
[01:13:45]  And that's when I started signing like the, The mortgage, the satisfactions with like cartoon characters.
[01:13:51]  You remember, like, I signed it with the name C. Montgomery Burns, which, once again, I thought that was extremely cute.
[01:13:59]  Yeah.
[01:14:00]  Did not play well in front of the judge a couple years later.
[01:14:04]  He had no sense of humor about the guy.
[01:14:06]  Yeah, didn't you, like, leave some sort of, like, paper mache statue in somebody's house?
[01:14:10]  That's actually not true.
[01:14:11]  I did leave it.
[01:14:13]  And the guy said that I left the paper mache statue in the middle of the living room, like, screaming.
[01:14:19]  Right.
[01:14:19]  And acting.
[01:14:20]  Taunting him or something.
[01:14:21]  Right.
[01:14:21]  But, I have a degree in fine arts.
[01:14:23]  Yeah.
[01:14:25]  Fraud is not a full-time job.
[01:14:27]  We're jogging.
[01:14:28]  We're working out.
[01:14:29]  We're doing rock climbing.
[01:14:30]  We're going on vacations.
[01:14:32]  We're still bored.
[01:14:33]  Yeah.
[01:14:33]  And one of the things I did was I made like a paper mache guy and I was working on it.
[01:14:37]  But by the time we started getting the money out, I didn't finish it, have time to finish it.
[01:14:43]  And I couldn't fit it in the back of the vehicle we were driving.
[01:14:46]  So I left it in the garage.
[01:14:49]  When he shows up at closing or at the.
[01:14:52]  That was pretty creepy to me on the show.
[01:14:54]  They made it soundless.
[01:14:55]  You were like.
[01:14:56]  Well, what's funny is that when it ended up at sentencing and on the shows, it's that I left it in the middle of the.
[01:15:07]  He says, when I walked in, I'd left it in the middle of the living room, and the entire house was trashed.
[01:15:14]  We had a bed upstairs in the master bedroom.
[01:15:18]  We had no furniture.
[01:15:20]  The house wasn't trashed.
[01:15:21]  We'd had the carpets actually steam clean before we left.
[01:15:23]  Yeah.
[01:15:25]  So there was nothing to trash.
[01:15:26]  So it was like.
[01:15:27]  You know, it's like, look, I'm already in a bad spot here.
[01:15:31]  Can you please not say that?
[01:15:33]  You know, I know you're tweaking it a little bit to make it worse, but it's already bad.
[01:15:37]  Right.
[01:15:37]  You know, so it's always the tweak of the, and he left it here and he was taunting me.
[01:15:42]  No, it was in the garage.
[01:15:44]  Right.
[01:15:45]  Along with the back seat of the vehicle we were driving because we had so much crap we couldn't pack it.
[01:15:49]  We had to pull out the back seat.
[01:15:52]  Anyway, but whatever.
[01:15:53]  Like I said, it's the same thing.
[01:15:54]  It's like saying you're a murderer.
[01:15:56]  You killed 13 people and you said, oh, it's not true.
[01:15:59]  I killed 11.
[01:16:00]  You're still.
[01:16:00]  Phil is a scumbag.
[01:16:01]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:16:02]  So it doesn't matter what.
[01:16:04]  I did leave it.
[01:16:05]  It was there.
[01:16:06]  Still feel like the house was clean.
[01:16:08]  But anyway, so we go to one house.
[01:16:14]  I satisfy the loans in public record.
[01:16:16]  I then turn around.
[01:16:17]  I have no credit.
[01:16:18]  Gary Sullivan has no credit.
[01:16:19]  Okay.
[01:16:20]  But I have a house worth $210,000.
[01:16:23]  So I turn around and I go to multiple banks and I borrow money.
[01:16:31]  I borrow $190,000 from one bank, $196,000 from another bank.
[01:16:36]  Against that house?
[01:16:37]  Yeah.
[01:16:38]  So I borrow like five loans.
[01:16:40]  It's like $900,000.
[01:16:41]  And I borrowed another $400,000 on the other house.
[01:16:44]  So it's $1.3 million.
[01:16:46]  So then I go to all the closings within a few days of each other.
[01:16:51]  Now, one of the loans I'd closed was with BBT Bank.
[01:16:53]  I'm sorry, one of the loans I'd applied for was with BBT Bank.
[01:16:57]  I applied for the loan.
[01:16:58]  Well, the loan officer went on vacation.
[01:17:01]  So she went on vacation.
[01:17:04]  And didn't process the paperwork.
[01:17:05]  So by the time we close all these loans, I close the loans.
[01:17:09]  I then turn around, I've opened up like six or eight bank accounts.
[01:17:13]  So I'm putting a couple hundred in each bank account and I'm varying the balances by swapping out cancel checks so that the balances don't just drain.
[01:17:20]  They're shooting up and down and up and down and up and down until they drain completely.
[01:17:24]  So I'm not having any problems taking the money out.
[01:17:26]  So I'm taking the money out 9,000, 9,000, 9,000.
[01:17:28]  You know, it's plenty of banks.
[01:17:30]  I'm just driving back and forth.
[01:17:31]  This is my job.
[01:17:32]  I drive back and forth and I pick up 30 to 60 to 90,000 to 20,000 every few days.
[01:17:39]  I drive back and forth, and the money's piling up.
[01:17:42]  And then one day, what happens is BBT's loan officer comes back from vacation and she says, Hey, she calls up, Gary Sullivan, Mr. Sullivan, guess what?
[01:17:52]  We're ready to close.
[01:17:54]  Okay, well, it's been two weeks since I started closing.
[01:17:58]  So if they were to now check the public records, they're going to see that there are mortgages showing up.
[01:18:06]  And they sent an abstractor down there to look.
[01:18:10]  Physically look at public records.
[01:18:12]  I can't have this woman send anybody down there.
[01:18:14]  She's like, Oh, we're gonna close.
[01:18:15]  I'm like, Well, did you already do the abstraction?
[01:18:16]  She goes, Oh, yeah, they're going down to like today.
[01:18:18]  And it, Oh, fuck.
[01:18:21]  Well, that's a problem.
[01:18:22]  I'm like, Okay, well, listen, I already closed the loan, so let's not have her go down there.
[01:18:25]  And she's like, Okay, nobody don't like it.
[01:18:27]  Well, please call the abstractor.
[01:18:28]  Make sure she doesn't go ahead.
[01:18:29]  Oh, no, she's down there anyway.
[01:18:31]  I understand, but let's go ahead and stop her from going ahead.
[01:18:34]  What can you say?
[01:18:35]  I'm panicked.
[01:18:36]  Where is she?
[01:18:36]  I'm headed.
[01:18:37]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:18:38]  Stop.
[01:18:39]  I'm gonna slash your tires, but I'm thinking.
[01:18:42]  It's going to be okay.
[01:18:44]  Yeah.
[01:18:45]  So, one of the things that happens in the meantime, by the way, is that the other house that I had, one of those lenders did a loan.
[01:18:57]  They did a loan on the second house and they caught that they were in third position.
[01:19:03]  So, that's a loan for like $180,000, $170,000, $180,000, something like that.
[01:19:08]  And so I get a phone call saying, Hey, is this Gary Sullivan?
[01:19:10]  I said, Yeah, it is Gary Sullivan.
[01:19:11]  He says, Listen, my name is, you know, let's say Mr. Thompson.
[01:19:17]  From Washington Mutual.
[01:19:19]  And we caught a $150,000 or $160,000 loan on that house.
[01:19:24]  Oh, okay.
[01:19:25]  He said, and it turns out that we found, we realized that there's another loan on the house.
[01:19:29]  We're in second position and this is an issue and we're contemplating calling the FBI.
[01:19:34]  Not sure what you want to do about that, but I wanted to see if there was an explanation.
[01:19:38]  I said, okay, well, wait a second now, Mr. Thompson, let's talk about this.
[01:19:42]  Let's not get crazy.
[01:19:44]  It's not, you know.
[01:19:45]  So I said, look, let me call you back.
[01:19:49]  Uh, I think what's in both of our interests is that we get Washington Mutual's money back as soon as possible.
[01:19:55]  And he says, Well, I agree, so let's work on that.
[01:19:58]  So I drive to my corporate lawyer in Columbia and I explain the situation to him.
[01:20:03]  And he says, So you're saying you've got four or five loans on this one house?
[01:20:08]  I'm like, Yeah, it's like 400,000.
[01:20:11]  He goes, What about this other house?
[01:20:12]  And I said, Oh, I've got like 900,000 on that one.
[01:20:15]  And he goes, Okay, well, Gary, that's a problem.
[01:20:17]  And now I've got two lawyers, they're two lawyers, and they're like, This is a problem.
[01:20:20]  I look, my immediate problem is paying.
[01:20:23]  These guys back the 160 right now.
[01:20:25]  So let's pay them back the 160.
[01:20:27]  And he goes, Okay, we can, I'll call the guy.
[01:20:32]  So he calls up and he says, Listen, you know, 160,000.
[01:20:36]  He can work this out.
[01:20:39]  Let's work this out.
[01:20:40]  And I said, Okay.
[01:20:40]  And, you know, we go back and forth.
[01:20:42]  And I'm like, Look, he wants 160.
[01:20:44]  I'm like, Look, I'll give him the 160.
[01:20:45]  He's like, Whoa, they also want the prepayment penalty?
[01:20:48]  I'll pay the prepayment penalty.
[01:20:49]  I go, Well, they also want the first month.
[01:20:51]  Well, that's ridiculous.
[01:20:52]  It's only been a week.
[01:20:52]  I'm like, I'll pay the first month's payment.
[01:20:54]  Right.
[01:20:55]  Come on, man.
[01:20:56]  Just pay them everything they want.
[01:20:57]  Right.
[01:20:57]  So they come up with whatever, 165.
[01:20:59]  I forget the number.
[01:21:00]  So I say, okay, okay, okay.
[01:21:02]  So he hangs at the phone.
[01:21:04]  He says, great, you got to go get a cashier's check.
[01:21:06]  I remember they wanted me to go into the bank, like a Washington Mutual branch, and bring them.
[01:21:12]  I said, I'm not going into Washington.
[01:21:13]  That's not happening.
[01:21:15]  So I said, I'll get a cashier's check and bring it to you.
[01:21:17]  He goes, okay.
[01:21:18]  They write up an agreement where they agree that it's not a criminal matter, it's a creative financing error, and that it's a civil matter and that it's being taken care of.
[01:21:27]  So they.
[01:21:28]  Fell the paperwork, no big deal.
[01:21:30]  They fax it back and forth.
[01:21:31]  I sign it.
[01:21:32]  I remember the lawyer.
[01:21:33]  This is the funny part about this is that the two lawyers are sitting there and he says, Okay, well, what are we going to do about the other mortgages?
[01:21:41]  And I go, What do you mean?
[01:21:43]  He goes, Gary, you've got multiple mortgages on all these properties.
[01:21:47]  And I went, Right, right.
[01:21:49]  And he said, Well, this is an issue.
[01:21:50]  He's, What if these other lenders find out about the mortgages?
[01:21:54]  And I went, Well, I leave town.
[01:21:56]  And he goes, And he said, No, and they laugh.
[01:21:59]  They go, I go, Gary, that's not going to work.
[01:22:03]  They've got your date of birth.
[01:22:04]  They have your social security number.
[01:22:06]  They're going to find you.
[01:22:06]  And I go, You're assuming I'm Gary Sullivan.
[01:22:09]  Right.
[01:22:09]  And the look on their faces was just like, Yeah, they didn't even think of that shit, man.
[01:22:14]  And he goes, Well, we'll cross that bridge when it comes.
[01:22:18]  I said, That's right.
[01:22:19]  Let me get the check.
[01:22:19]  Yeah, that's right.
[01:22:20]  So I go get the check.
[01:22:21]  I come back.
[01:22:21]  I give him the check.
[01:22:22]  And I remember he said, Okay, well, I need money for my fee.
[01:22:26]  And I said, Well, what's your fee?
[01:22:28]  It's a couple hours work.
[01:22:29]  And he goes, I think $1,500 is.
[01:22:32]  Good.
[01:22:32]  I said, okay.
[01:22:32]  So I pull out, start counting out cash.
[01:22:34]  He goes, well, we typically don't take cash.
[01:22:36]  I take a check.
[01:22:37]  And I said, after what you just heard, you'd take a check from me.
[01:22:40]  Yeah, right.
[01:22:41]  And he goes, I'll take cash.
[01:22:43]  Cash.
[01:22:44]  He pays them.
[01:22:44]  That's good.
[01:22:45]  They're good.
[01:22:45]  We're all happy.
[01:22:47]  I keep pulling money out of the bank.
[01:22:50]  Becky's happy.
[01:22:51]  Becky and I decide once we pull all the money out, because we're close to getting all the money at this point.
[01:22:55]  I've been pulling out money.
[01:22:56]  We got $600,000, $700,000 out of the bank.
[01:22:58]  We still have a chunk of other money.
[01:23:00]  We've got a chunk of money.
[01:23:03]  So we decided we're going to move to Houston, Texas.
[01:23:08]  So she's moved to Houston, Texas.
[01:23:12]  She lives in Houston now, downtown Houston, amazing building.
[01:23:18]  And so she's in Texas.
[01:23:22]  And yeah, she is already in Texas.
[01:23:26]  Yeah, she was in Texas.
[01:23:28]  So I go into the bank one day.
[01:23:31]  I go into Wachovia.
[01:23:32]  I walk into Wachovia as Gary Sullivan.
[01:23:35]  Typically, when I walked in a place, I only had information on me that was specific to that person.
[01:23:41]  Right.
[01:23:42]  So you don't get it mixed up or.
[01:23:43]  Right.
[01:23:44]  Happened to have a Michael Eckert driver's license in my.
[01:23:53]  My wallet.
[01:23:55]  I walk in.
[01:23:56]  I go up to the teller.
[01:23:57]  I say, I need nine grand in cash.
[01:24:00]  She goes, okay.
[01:24:01]  She turns around.
[01:24:02]  She goes, I got to get authorization for that.
[01:24:04]  I said, no problem.
[01:24:05]  She walks in the back.
[01:24:08]  Five minutes go by.
[01:24:09]  I'm standing there.
[01:24:09]  The whole place is crowded.
[01:24:11]  Next thing I know, boom, somebody pulls my hand behind my back, pulls the other hand behind my back.
[01:24:16]  I turn around.
[01:24:16]  There are these massive, massive sheriff's deputies.
[01:24:22]  I mean, I'm 5'6.
[01:24:24]  I'm 5'7 with a good pair of shoes.
[01:24:26]  I mean, these guys are huge.
[01:24:29]  So I'm like, hey, they go, hey, they said, hey, they grabbed my ID and they said, you're being detained.
[01:24:38]  Mr. Sullivan, you're being detained.
[01:24:40]  Come with us.
[01:24:41]  They put the cuffs on me.
[01:24:42]  They walk me in the back.
[01:24:43]  Everybody's staring.
[01:24:44]  They sit me down in the manager's office.
[01:24:46]  I'm sitting there.
[01:24:47]  And I said, well, what's this about?
[01:24:48]  And they go, all we know is to detain you.
[01:24:50]  Five minutes later, a detective shows up.
[01:24:52]  They were waiting for the detective.
[01:24:54]  I heard detective.
[01:24:55]  I thought, okay, FBI.
[01:24:58]  Because I knew the FBI was already looking for me.
[01:25:00]  And by this point, when I left Atlanta, the Secret Service had gotten involved.
[01:25:06]  And the Secret Service had placed me on the Secret Service's most wanted list.
[01:25:11]  Because the Secret Service deals with aggravated identity theft, with anything to do with the infrastructure of currency or money of any kind.
[01:25:22]  Okay.
[01:25:25]  Which is a lot of banking.
[01:25:27]  Right, right.
[01:25:27]  They basically took over a massive amount of the FBI once the FBI kind of shifted towards. terrorism.
[01:25:33]  They took over a massive amount of that.
[01:25:35]  So, you know, I know they're looking.
[01:25:41]  And so anyway, I go back.
[01:25:43]  I'm waiting.
[01:25:44]  I'm handcuffed.
[01:25:45]  The detective walks in.
[01:25:46]  I'm thinking FBI, Secret Service.
[01:25:49]  They walk in.
[01:25:50]  The guy says, he walks in and he says, hey, Mr. Sullivan.
[01:25:57]  You know, I'm whatever his name was, you know, Richard.
[01:26:00]  I'm John Richards, Detective Richards.
[01:26:02]  And I say, okay.
[01:26:03]  And he says, we were contacted by the head of Wachovia's fraud department.
[01:26:09]  We understand that you've got multiple loans on a piece of property that you borrowed money from.
[01:26:14]  One of the loans you took out was from Wachovia.
[01:26:17]  And you've got three loans on one piece of property.
[01:26:21]  I actually had six loans on that piece of property.
[01:26:24]  So I know they've only caught three.
[01:26:25]  So I looked up and I said, is that illegal?
[01:26:29]  And he went, you know, I don't know.
[01:26:32]  And I remember right then thinking, I'm walking out of here.
[01:26:34]  Yeah.
[01:26:35]  All I've got to do is convince this guy I can get out of here.
[01:26:38]  And he goes, You're not under arrest.
[01:26:39]  And I go, I'm not.
[01:26:39]  I feel like I'm under arrest.
[01:26:41]  I show him the cuts.
[01:26:41]  He goes, Oh, yeah.
[01:26:42]  can you take those off him?
[01:26:44]  So they take the cuffs off.
[01:26:46]  And I said, what's going on?
[01:26:47]  He goes, I don't know.
[01:26:47]  Let's get Wachovia's head of security on the phone.
[01:26:49]  They get him on the phone.
[01:26:50]  He starts saying, this guy is running a shotgunning scam.
[01:26:53]  He's borrowing so many mortgages on the house, we couldn't catch it in time.
[01:26:58]  And he's removing all the money in cash.
[01:26:59]  And he said, you're removing all the money in cash.
[01:27:01]  I said, I am removing it in cash.
[01:27:03]  And he said, why?
[01:27:05]  And I said, well, because I work for a day labor company and I had, I pull out my, I have a, I have a little business card.
[01:27:16]  Day labor says I'm a site manager, Gary Sullivan, site manager, labor on demand.
[01:27:20]  And I said, What happens is I said, We cut these guys' checks and they have to go cash the checks and they charge them like 10%.
[01:27:27]  So I usually just cash their checks for them.
[01:27:30]  I said, I don't know if that's illegal.
[01:27:31]  And he goes, No, that's nice.
[01:27:33]  That's fine.
[01:27:33]  I'm like, Oh, okay.
[01:27:35]  So the guy says, Listen, he this, he that.
[01:27:38]  He's got multiple first mortgages.
[01:27:40]  And I went, Okay, well, I read every one of the mortgages I took out.
[01:27:42]  None of them said first mortgage because it's actually the placement of the mortgage.
[01:27:46]  that determines whether it's a first, second, or third mortgage.
[01:27:48]  And it doesn't really say anything on the mortgage.
[01:27:51]  So he's like, he's like, you know, oh, that's, so he's, he's, I'm unraveling his little thing that he's trying to convince him.
[01:27:58]  And I'm saying, no, no, I read the things.
[01:28:00]  It didn't say, why didn't he take them all out from the same bank?
[01:28:02]  I said, well, you know, I don't know.
[01:28:04]  I came to Wachovia.
[01:28:05]  I know Wachovia knows they're in first position.
[01:28:07]  So I said, I borrowed a first mortgage from Wachovia.
[01:28:10]  I told them that I needed like half a million dollars.
[01:28:12]  So the loan officer at Wachovia had a friend at, and I go, shoot, what was the name, what's the name of the other lender?
[01:28:18]  And he goes, He and he tells me, he's like, Oh, Sun Trust.
[01:28:21]  I'm like, Right, Sun Trust.
[01:28:23]  And they gave me a second mortgage.
[01:28:24]  Well, the girl at Sun Trust said she could give me additional money for a home equity line of credit.
[01:28:30]  This guy, that's not a home equity line of credit.

=== Borrowing Half a Million Dollars (03:25) ===

[01:28:32]  He's lying.
[01:28:34]  He's and I'm like, Look, this is what happened.
[01:28:35]  Then I signed that and they gave me the money.
[01:28:38]  And I don't understand.
[01:28:39]  What did I do wrong?
[01:28:40]  And he's like, Yeah, I'm not sure what he did wrong.
[01:28:43]  I mean, it sounds to me.
[01:28:44]  I go, Sounds to me like they got a problem at the bank.
[01:28:47]  Our loan officers didn't do anything wrong.
[01:28:50]  So he's screaming.
[01:28:51]  And then he goes, look at his ID.
[01:28:53]  Look at his ID.
[01:28:54]  And he goes, okay.
[01:28:55]  And he looks at the, I only had an ID, not a driver's license.
[01:29:00]  Because I had a vehicle that was in the name Michael Eckert.
[01:29:03]  So I didn't need a driver's license.
[01:29:05]  And he goes, yeah.
[01:29:06]  He goes, it starts with 000.
[01:29:07]  He goes, no, no.
[01:29:09]  Our IDs start with 000.
[01:29:11]  He goes, it's a fake ID.
[01:29:12]  He goes, no, I ran him through NCIC.
[01:29:15]  It's his real ID.
[01:29:16]  He is Gary Sullivan.
[01:29:18]  And I went, oh, now I'm not Gary Sullivan.
[01:29:20]  I go, come on, man.
[01:29:21]  What are we doing here?
[01:29:22]  What are we doing?
[01:29:23]  And he goes, So you already got that guy convinced.
[01:29:27]  At that point, you already know you're like your gold, right?
[01:29:31]  Getting out of here.
[01:29:31]  Oh, the two sheriffs are still standing there.
[01:29:33]  The two deputies are still there.
[01:29:34]  Yeah.
[01:29:36]  So he goes, ah, he's screaming and hollering.
[01:29:39]  And he's telling them to calm down.
[01:29:40]  I go, look, man, I think they got a problem at the bank.
[01:29:42]  I wouldn't know how to do this.
[01:29:43]  I said, I work for a labor company.
[01:29:44]  What, I'm going to trick the bank out of half a million dollars?
[01:29:46]  Come on.
[01:29:47]  I own two houses here in the area.
[01:29:49]  And he goes, that's right.
[01:29:50]  He goes, yeah, he owns two houses.
[01:29:52]  Yeah.
[01:29:53]  So he goes, look, I don't even know if he's committed a crime yet.
[01:29:55]  I'm going to bring him downtown.
[01:29:56]  We're going to fill out a police report.
[01:29:58]  And I'm going to see what the district attorney says.
[01:30:01]  He hangs up on the guy.
[01:30:03]  Guy's furious.
[01:30:04]  Yeah.
[01:30:05]  I get up to leave.
[01:30:06]  And he says, Gary, this is a South Carolina ID.
[01:30:10]  Do you have a driver's license?
[01:30:13]  And I went, I do, but it's in Nevada.
[01:30:17]  I don't know if Gary Sullivan has one in Nevada.
[01:30:20]  Right.
[01:30:20]  I have no clue.
[01:30:21]  He's a homeless guy, right?
[01:30:24]  Homeless, yeah.
[01:30:26]  You know, prostitute.
[01:30:28]  Prostitute, yeah.
[01:30:29]  Yeah, right.
[01:30:30]  So the, the, Just giving reach rounds behind seven.
[01:30:32]  Yeah.
[01:30:33]  So the detective says, he goes, Oh, that's right.
[01:30:37]  He goes, You're from, I forgot you're from Las Vegas.
[01:30:39]  And I right then remember that he had said he pulled me through NCIC.
[01:30:44]  So he knows Gary Sullivan's been arrested twice for prostitution.
[01:30:48]  Oh, shit.
[01:30:50]  So I thought, no.
[01:30:52]  I looked over at the deputies, and these guys are glancing at each other, smiling.
[01:30:56]  And I thought, son of a bitch.
[01:30:58]  You don't think you're a male prostitute?
[01:31:00]  I think I was a male prostitute a few years ago.
[01:31:02]  And I went, fuck.
[01:31:04]  And the guy goes, one of the cops grabs the ID and says, I'll check to see if he's got a driver's license.
[01:31:10]  He walks off.
[01:31:11]  He comes back and he says, Yeah, he's got a valid driver's license in Nevada.
[01:31:15]  And the deputy goes, He checks out.
[01:31:17]  He goes, Everything's good.
[01:31:18]  It's valid.
[01:31:18]  He goes, Yeah, yeah, it's valid.
[01:31:20]  He goes, Well, it says he's five foot 10.
[01:31:22]  And they all look at me and I go, Well, fellas with a good pair of shoes.
[01:31:25]  And they go, Ha, ha, ha.
[01:31:27]  Gary, follow us back to the police station.
[01:31:31]  So I'm driving back to the police station with the cruiser behind me and the deputy's car in the front of me.
[01:31:37]  My phone rings and it's Becky.
[01:31:40]  And I go, Hey, what's going on?
[01:31:42]  And she says, oh, my God.
[01:31:44]  I've got like 40 missed calls, by the way.
[01:31:46]  Oh, my God.
[01:31:46]  What are you doing?
[01:31:47]  What are you doing?
[01:31:47]  And I said, okay, you're not going to believe this.
[01:31:51]  I said, I just got detained.
[01:31:53]  I'm being driven back to the police station.
[01:31:55]  I have to fill out a police report.
[01:31:57]  And I explained what happens.

=== Detained and Driving Away (02:25) ===

[01:31:58]  And she goes, get on the interstate.
[01:32:00]  Get out of there.
[01:32:01]  Get out.
[01:32:01]  I said, I can't.
[01:32:01]  There's a cop behind me.
[01:32:02]  I can't.
[01:32:03]  I got to play this out.
[01:32:04]  I said, listen, five minutes ago, I was in handcuffs.
[01:32:07]  I can do this.
[01:32:08]  I can get out of this.
[01:32:08]  I'm good.
[01:32:09]  She goes, you don't understand.
[01:32:10]  You're number one on the Secret Service's most wanted list.
[01:32:13]  They just raised you to number one.
[01:32:14]  She goes, you got to get out.
[01:32:15]  I said, look, I can't.
[01:32:16]  I can't.
[01:32:17]  I said, look, the worst case scenario is this.
[01:32:19]  I'll get arrested.
[01:32:21]  You get me a lawyer, get me out.
[01:32:23]  She goes, I'm not getting you out on bond.
[01:32:25]  I'm not getting you a lawyer.
[01:32:27]  She goes, I'm not risking everything I have to try and get you out of jail.
[01:32:33]  She's got all the money.
[01:32:34]  Oh, shit.
[01:32:36]  So I'm going, I said, well, I guess I better not get arrested.
[01:32:40]  Yeah.
[01:32:41]  So I hang up the phone.
[01:32:42]  I go in there.
[01:32:43]  I fill out the police report.
[01:32:46]  I wait.
[01:32:46]  He won't let me wait in his cube.
[01:32:48]  He says, Can you wait in the hallway?
[01:32:49]  I got to go talk to my whatever, lieutenant, whatever.
[01:32:54]  I wait in the hallway.
[01:32:55]  In the hallway, there's all of these posters.
[01:32:58]  There's one color poster, which is my Secret Service's most wanted poster.
[01:33:04]  A picture of you.
[01:33:05]  A picture of me.
[01:33:06]  Now keep in mind, I've had plastic surgery.
[01:33:07]  With their real name on it.
[01:33:09]  Oh, Matt Cox.
[01:33:09]  Yeah.
[01:33:10]  Now keep in mind, I've had plastic surgery by this point.
[01:33:13]  I've had liposuction.
[01:33:14]  I had a nose job.
[01:33:15]  I had what's called a mini facelift.
[01:33:17]  I got porcelain veneers.
[01:33:20]  I had two hair grafts.
[01:33:22]  You know, this isn't my real hair, really.
[01:33:24]  Yeah, it's from the back of my head.
[01:33:26]  Um, it's my hair.
[01:33:27]  I paid for it.
[01:33:29]  You know, you did all this because I did not want to go to prison okay, so you wanted to alter your.
[01:33:35]  Yeah, you looked on purpose to avoid being caught.
[01:33:40]  Yeah absolutely right okay, i'm not sure what else I would like.
[01:33:42]  I don't know, I don't know if you mean vanity maybe yeah, maybe you just oh no, it was definitely vanity too.
[01:33:47]  I mean i'm, yeah yeah okay, absolutely.
[01:33:48]  I mean i'm a straight narcissist, right.
[01:33:51]  So I gotta you know there was, there was room for improvement, right?
[01:33:55]  So If I could have made myself taller, that would have been great.
[01:33:58]  You would have paid for that too, right?
[01:33:59]  And you can.
[01:34:00]  Can you really?
[01:34:01]  Oh, yeah.
[01:34:01]  You can get it.
[01:34:02]  There's like two different ways.
[01:34:03]  One, they extend your legs, they actually break your legs, and then they have a thing where it actually extends the bone, and the bone grows together.
[01:34:10]  So it's a slow process.
[01:34:12]  Yeah.
[01:34:13]  So the other one is they take like a piece of coral and they actually cut it and they slip the coral in.
[01:34:18]  Either way, you're immobile for several months.
[01:34:22]  Yeah.
[01:34:23]  Fuck that.
[01:34:23]  Okay.

=== Admitting Narcissistic Tendencies (12:18) ===

[01:34:24]  My problem was that Becky was.
[01:34:26]  Did you actually look into doing that?
[01:34:28]  Yeah.
[01:34:28]  Really?
[01:34:29]  Becky, listen, I'm all in.
[01:34:30]  Yeah.
[01:34:31]  If I'm doing something, I'm all in.
[01:34:32]  So Becky was a lunatic.
[01:34:34]  She's bipolar.
[01:34:36]  She wouldn't take her medication they wanted her to take.
[01:34:40]  She'd take it for a month, get better, and then she'd get off of it.
[01:34:44]  And then she'd be like a lunatic.
[01:34:46]  She'd have the police called on me twice, like woke me up in the middle of the night screaming.
[01:34:51]  And the police come and I left and the cops show up and I'm not there.
[01:34:54]  And they're like, look, if two people are here, somebody's got to go to jail.
[01:34:58]  So I'm like, she's going to get me arrested.
[01:35:00]  This happened twice.
[01:35:02]  So I can't have her watch me.
[01:35:06]  For three months while I'm laying in bed immobile.
[01:35:09]  That's insane.
[01:35:10]  Who knows what she'd do to me?
[01:35:12]  Yeah, that ain't going to work.
[01:35:13]  So at this point, we're not even together anymore.
[01:35:16]  I've gotten her, we both have two separate apartments in Charlotte.
[01:35:20]  She lives in a condo, and I live in another condo, both in downtown Charlotte.
[01:35:25]  So I'm terrified of her.
[01:35:27]  She's got all the money because she's afraid I'm going to leave her, which I would have.
[01:35:32]  I mean, there were multiple times I tried to leave.
[01:35:34]  She'd call me up and beg and plead, come back.
[01:35:36]  Come back, come back.
[01:35:37]  Please, I'm sorry.
[01:35:37]  I messed up.
[01:35:38]  I messed up.
[01:35:39]  I'll take the medication.
[01:35:40]  I'm going to be better.
[01:35:41]  I'm sorry.
[01:35:41]  I love you.
[01:35:42]  Please don't do this.
[01:35:43]  I can't do this without you.
[01:35:44]  Okay, fine.
[01:35:45]  I'll turn around.
[01:35:45]  I come back.
[01:35:47]  So at this point, she's now, I go in there.
[01:35:51]  I'm in the police station.
[01:35:53]  She's telling me she's not going to pick me up if I get arrested.
[01:35:56]  The detective goes and talks to the lieutenant.
[01:35:58]  He comes back.
[01:35:59]  What about your poster on the wall?
[01:36:00]  It was on the wall, but it's among a bunch of.
[01:36:02]  I mean, literally, imagine this.
[01:36:04]  As I look over and I see it, he walks up behind me.
[01:36:07]  Oh, And puts his hand on my shoulder.
[01:36:08]  He goes, You ready to go?
[01:36:09]  I'm like, Oh my God.
[01:36:11]  So ready to go.
[01:36:12]  So we walk off.
[01:36:13]  We get in the elevator.
[01:36:15]  We get downtown.
[01:36:16]  I don't know if you've ever been in a police station, but I couldn't have left.
[01:36:20]  They have a code in the elevator to get down, to get up.
[01:36:24]  I mean, there's all these doors.
[01:36:25]  You're not leaving.
[01:36:26]  You're not getting in and you're not leaving.
[01:36:28]  So I'm just, I'm done.
[01:36:30]  They were behind me.
[01:36:31]  They escorted me there.
[01:36:32]  Right.
[01:36:33]  They got to let you out.
[01:36:34]  Right.
[01:36:34]  A lot of people are like, Why didn't you just take off and what?
[01:36:39]  They're behind me.
[01:36:40]  I'm not, you know, I'm not a race car driver.
[01:36:43]  I can't outrun the police.
[01:36:44]  I can't outrun, you know, the radio or the helicopter.
[01:36:48]  I have to go to the bank.
[01:36:49]  Right.
[01:36:49]  And then they're like, well, when he walked off, why didn't you leave?
[01:36:53]  It's a dungeon.
[01:36:54]  Yeah.
[01:36:55]  I can't get out.
[01:36:56]  I'm not an escape artist.
[01:36:58]  So he walks me out and he lets me leave.
[01:37:00]  I get in the car.
[01:37:01]  I go to leave.
[01:37:02]  I pick up the phone.
[01:37:04]  She's been calling.
[01:37:06]  Right.
[01:37:06]  Pick up the phone and she's first thing she says is, I go, I pick up the phone and listen, I lay in.
[01:37:13]  I just start screaming at her.
[01:37:15]  She's like, I was on my way.
[01:37:16]  I'm putting everything in the car right now.
[01:37:18]  I'm coming to get you.
[01:37:19]  I'm like, Yeah.
[01:37:22]  So, anyway, I remember she's like, Okay, okay, you're going great.
[01:37:25]  Get on the interstate car.
[01:37:26]  I said, No, no, I'm going to go to a couple more banks.
[01:37:29]  What?
[01:37:30]  Straight from the police station.
[01:37:31]  Straight from the police station.
[01:37:32]  I go to two more banks.
[01:37:33]  I get out more money.
[01:37:33]  The third bank.
[01:37:34]  How much money?
[01:37:36]  Not much.
[01:37:36]  Nine thousand.
[01:37:37]  Okay.
[01:37:38]  You know, eight thousand.
[01:37:38]  Yeah.
[01:37:39]  Next one I walk into, I see the person that's buying and they look at me and they're like, immediately go for the Phone and I realized, okay, no.
[01:37:45]  I turn around, I get in my car, I leave.
[01:37:47]  One of the girls runs out and watches my car as I leave, just like right now in the tag.
[01:37:51]  Something was so there was more to it than I knew.
[01:37:53]  It's getting hot.
[01:37:53]  Yeah.
[01:37:54]  I don't know.
[01:37:54]  So I leave, go back to Charlotte, pack up all my stuff in a U-Haul van, leave my car in the parking garage, and I drive all the way to Houston.
[01:38:06]  I get to Houston, Becky and I get into this massive fight-argument, say, an argument.
[01:38:15]  And it Started because I said, Look, I mean, I got there.
[01:38:19]  I was like, You know, I said, Look, I need to check out some real estate, figure out where I'm going to live.
[01:38:25]  She's like, Oh, you can't stand the idea of living with me, can you?
[01:38:28]  You can't stay with me for even a few weeks.
[01:38:30]  I'm so disgusting.
[01:38:32]  You can't.
[01:38:32]  I'm like, what the hell is going on?
[01:38:33]  What are you doing?
[01:38:35]  She's screaming and hollering.
[01:38:37]  Then, this is in the car.
[01:38:38]  I remember we get in the elevator.
[01:38:39]  We're going up.
[01:38:40]  There's some girl in the elevator that was amazing.
[01:38:44]  You know, you've ever been with your girlfriend?
[01:38:46]  And you're like, you see some chick, and you're like, oh, God, look away.
[01:38:48]  Don't look.
[01:38:49]  Don't look.
[01:38:50]  Becky's staring at me.
[01:38:51]  You can feel her staring at me.
[01:38:52]  Yeah, she's staring.
[01:38:53]  The girl's over here.
[01:38:55]  And I'm just like, this is so bad.
[01:38:57]  She's already borderline insane.
[01:38:58]  Right.
[01:38:58]  She's going to snap.
[01:38:59]  Right.
[01:39:00]  The elevator door opens.
[01:39:01]  I walk out, and I remember she goes, oh, you just love the fuck.
[01:39:04]  That skank, wouldn't you?
[01:39:06]  And I remember thinking, she's probably a very nice guy.
[01:39:08]  Yeah, hell yeah.
[01:39:08]  What are you doing?
[01:39:09]  You know, the girl's like, did she say skank?
[01:39:11]  Yeah.
[01:39:12]  So we go in, we get into this huge argument in her apartment, and I say, Look, I'm just, I'm done.
[01:39:19]  I'm leaving.
[01:39:21]  And I said, We're splitting up the money.
[01:39:23]  And she goes, We're not splitting the money.
[01:39:24]  She goes, I'm keeping the money.
[01:39:25]  I don't know what it was, $600,000 or $700,000.
[01:39:28]  And she's like, I'm keeping the money.
[01:39:29]  And I went, No, no, no, we're splitting it.
[01:39:31]  I'm leaving.
[01:39:32]  And I remember she said, No.
[01:39:35]  She goes, No, no.
[01:39:36]  She said, You can go somewhere else and commit another, do another con.
[01:39:41]  I'm stuck.
[01:39:42]  I can't do what you're doing.
[01:39:45]  And so I went, Okay, well, what do you think is fair?
[01:39:48]  And she goes, I think $10,000 is fair.
[01:39:51]  I go, $10,000?
[01:39:52]  What am I going to do with $10,000?
[01:39:54]  I can't get an apartment.
[01:39:55]  I can't do all the things I need to do.
[01:39:56]  What am I going to do?
[01:39:57]  I'm going to go get a job.
[01:39:58]  What am I going to do?
[01:39:59]  I'm going to bust tables?
[01:40:00]  Come on.
[01:40:01]  Let's be reasonable.
[01:40:02]  So we start arguing back and forth, back and forth.
[01:40:03]  Finally, she says $100,000.
[01:40:05]  So I go, okay, count out $100,000.
[01:40:07]  She gives me $100,000 and I leave.
[01:40:09]  And in the American Greed episode, they say that she like went in the shower.
[01:40:13]  Right.
[01:40:13]  And I left your phone on the bed or something.
[01:40:15]  Right.
[01:40:15]  I did leave my phone.
[01:40:15]  Oh, yeah.
[01:40:15]  They said you left.
[01:40:16]  Remember I left my phone?
[01:40:17]  Because every time I tried to leave her before, she would call me and it would guilt me into coming back.
[01:40:22]  And this time I remember thinking, no, no.
[01:40:23]  Yep.
[01:40:24]  She can't guilt me now.
[01:40:25]  I'm done.
[01:40:26]  It's over.
[01:40:26]  I could take the $100,000.
[01:40:28]  I leave.
[01:40:29]  And the only reason was because she was saying she's not going to pick me up.
[01:40:33]  Yeah.
[01:40:33]  So you weren't going to pick me up.
[01:40:36]  Right.
[01:40:36]  We're done.
[01:40:37]  Yeah.
[01:40:37]  You already know you can't trust her.
[01:40:39]  I can't.
[01:40:39]  Yeah.
[01:40:39]  You can't count on her.
[01:40:40]  So we're done.
[01:40:41]  So I leave.
[01:40:43]  How much money do you leave her with?
[01:40:45]  Probably $500,000, $600,000 she probably has.
[01:40:51]  So she's good.
[01:40:51]  Yeah.
[01:40:52]  She's straightforward.
[01:40:52]  She went and got a job or did whatever.
[01:40:54]  She could be okay for her.
[01:40:54]  She could buy a house.
[01:40:55]  She gets a lot of that money.
[01:40:57]  So anyway, we leave.
[01:40:58]  Or I leave.
[01:40:59]  I get my car.
[01:41:00]  I drive.
[01:41:01]  And on my way, this was another huge mistake of mine.
[01:41:06]  On my way, I stop into like.
[01:41:08]  I drive through like Baton Rouge or something, and I get a track phone and I call home and I call a few people.
[01:41:15]  And every once in a while, I would do that when I was somewhere else.
[01:41:17]  I'd call just to check up my mom, my dad, you know.
[01:41:21]  So I call and I call a friend of mine, and she says, Look, call the FBI agent.
[01:41:26]  See if you can turn yourself in.
[01:41:28]  At this point, I'm pretty strung out.
[01:41:30]  I'm pretty exhausted.
[01:41:32]  I've had a bad couple days.
[01:41:34]  So I'm thinking, okay.
[01:41:37]  So I call the FBI agent.
[01:41:39]  Name was Candace Cauldron.
[01:41:43]  Candace is like a law enforcement zealot and really, really did not like me, just despised me.
[01:41:52]  I don't know why.
[01:41:53]  Everybody else was very pleasant, so very professional.
[01:41:57]  Candace was just vicious to me.
[01:42:00]  And so I remember I called her and I said, hey, my name is Matt Cox.
[01:42:05]  It's my understanding you wanted me to call you.
[01:42:07]  And she's like, oh my God, yeah, Mr. Cox, we've been looking for you.
[01:42:09]  I said, yeah, I understand that.
[01:42:11]  She said, yeah, I need you to turn yourself in.
[01:42:12]  I said, no, I'm not going to do that.
[01:42:14]  And she said, well, let's talk about this.
[01:42:16]  And she said, I go, well, what am I going to get?
[01:42:21]  How much time?
[01:42:21]  And she said, well, I mean, that's not really how it works.
[01:42:24]  You turn yourself in, then we determine, we take that into consideration.
[01:42:27]  I said, yeah, I'm not.
[01:42:28]  Yeah, right.
[01:42:29]  I'm not doing that.
[01:42:30]  And she goes, well, I can talk to the U.S. Attorney and see if he can recommend something.
[01:42:34]  And okay.
[01:42:37]  So she's like, you do understand we're going to catch you.
[01:42:40]  And I go, well, I'm not sure how.
[01:42:42]  She goes, well, I mean, let's face it.
[01:42:44]  She goes, eventually you'll get pulled over by the police.
[01:42:47]  I said, I've been pulled over by the police.
[01:42:48]  She goes, well, you'll go to get a ticket.
[01:42:50]  You'll try and hand him a driver's license.
[01:42:52]  I said, I've handed him a driver's license.
[01:42:53]  I said, as a matter of fact, I've gotten like four tickets in different people's names.
[01:42:57]  I actually went to traffic school as another guy recently.
[01:43:01]  I got like three tickets in his name.
[01:43:02]  He was going to lose his license.
[01:43:03]  I had a car in his name.
[01:43:04]  I had to go.
[01:43:04]  Jesus.
[01:43:05]  So, plus it was eight hours I didn't have to spend with Becky.
[01:43:08]  Right.
[01:43:10]  So, I'm telling her this.
[01:43:13]  And she's like, Oh, you're so cocky.
[01:43:15]  She said, You think you're not going to get away.
[01:43:18]  Eventually, you'll get caught.
[01:43:22]  She said, You'll go home to see somebody.
[01:43:24]  Somebody will recognize you.
[01:43:26]  You'll get pulled over.
[01:43:28]  Something will happen.
[01:43:29]  I said, Listen, nobody's going to recognize me.
[01:43:32]  He said, I've had multiple plastic surgeries.
[01:43:35]  I mean, you know, and if you actually look at the pictures of me, I mean, I look vastly different.
[01:43:39]  They actually, anyway, it's another story.
[01:43:41]  The point is, is I'm like, look, nobody's going to recognize me.
[01:43:44]  I got multiple driver's licenses.
[01:43:47]  I've got passports in other people's name.
[01:43:49]  I've been in and out of the country.
[01:43:50]  I said, and there's nobody in Tampa that I want to see.
[01:43:54]  So unless we work something out, you're never going to have this conversation with me in person.
[01:43:59]  And so she says, okay, she calms down.
[01:44:02]  And I remember she said, What'd she say?
[01:44:07]  She kept calling me sweetie.
[01:44:08]  Listen, sweetie.
[01:44:09]  Listen, sweetie.
[01:44:10]  And she goes, I remember she said, you don't realize how close we are to catching you.
[01:44:14]  She's, we're 90% sure of where you're at.
[01:44:16]  I go, yeah, well, only 100% counts, sweetie.
[01:44:19]  And she was just like, oh, she hated me.
[01:44:21]  But see, she was cocky and I was cocky.
[01:44:23]  She was, you know, and I shouldn't have been like, I shouldn't have, you know, just gotten down there and started being snide back to her.
[01:44:30]  But she was so arrogant.
[01:44:32]  Right.
[01:44:32]  You know, and arrogant people hate arrogant people.
[01:44:35]  I can't, you know, so I really hurt.
[01:44:37]  Her condescension was just like, oh.
[01:44:40]  So we go back and forth, back and forth.
[01:44:42]  By the way, when I was eventually sentenced, this is brought up in front of the judge.
[01:44:46]  And instead of me calling to turn myself in and try and figure out how to turn myself in and try and work out a deal, it turned into Mr. Cox constantly called the FBI and mocked me.
[01:44:57]  Just to fuck with him.
[01:44:59]  What are you talking about?
[01:45:00]  I called a couple times.
[01:45:02]  So anyway, I hang up the phone.
[01:45:05]  And when she says, she goes, okay, I'll call you back.
[01:45:07]  I go, wait a minute.
[01:45:08]  I'll call you back.
[01:45:09]  She goes, just leave your phone on.
[01:45:10]  I go, And I said, because I'm going to shut my phone off.
[01:45:12]  She goes, just leave your phone on.
[01:45:13]  I went, I said, no, you're probably tracking this phone right now.
[01:45:16]  You're trying to triangulate it or something.
[01:45:18]  And she goes, she goes, oh, get over yourself.
[01:45:20]  She goes, you're not that important.
[01:45:22]  And I remember thinking, yeah, she's right.
[01:45:26]  Who do I think?
[01:45:26]  I'm nobody.
[01:45:27]  They're not trying to track the phone.
[01:45:29]  It's just stupid.
[01:45:30]  Come to find out, when I later ordered the Freedom of Information Act, they were tracking the phone out of Baton Rouge, and they'd actually sent two U.S. Marshals to the 7-Eleven where I'd bought the phone.
[01:45:43]  Where I was sitting talking to her on the phone.
[01:45:45]  Really?
[01:45:46]  So it just so happens that I hung up the phone and I turned it off and told her I'd call back in a couple hours.
[01:45:51]  And I got up and I got in my vehicle and started driving.
[01:45:54]  So I was driving when I called her back a few hours later and I called and she said, Look, I talked to Robert Mazakowski, which is the U.S. attorney here in Florida, in Tampa.
[01:46:05]  She says, I can get you seven years.
[01:46:07]  Seven years?
[01:46:08]  And I thought, That's seven years.
[01:46:10]  And she doesn't even know about the other stuff.
[01:46:12]  And I'd already told her, Look, there's other stuff you don't know about.
[01:46:14]  She goes, Yeah, but if, You come in first and you tell us about it.
[01:46:17]  We don't charge you.
[01:46:19]  We'll take it into consideration.
[01:46:20]  So I thought if I tell her about the money and this and that, I might be okay.
[01:46:25]  Anyway, I was like, I'm not doing seven years.
[01:46:28]  And she says, look, we can maybe work something out.
[01:46:31]  And I go, okay, well, what about in Atlanta?
[01:46:32]  What about for Atlanta?
[01:46:34]  And she's like, well, you need to turn yourself into Tampa.
[01:46:36]  So we start going back and forth, back and forth.
[01:46:39]  And eventually I go, what about the Secret Service?
[01:46:40]  And she's like, look, you need to turn yourself into the FBI in Tampa.

=== Returning to Charlotte for Car (07:50) ===

[01:46:42]  Just come back to Tampa.
[01:46:43]  And I went, well, yeah, but I'm closer to Atlanta.
[01:46:45]  Maybe I should just turn myself in Atlanta.
[01:46:47]  And eventually it comes out that I'm like, look, I've mentioned Atlanta several times.
[01:46:51]  You won't even address it.
[01:46:53]  Did you talk to the U.S. attorney in Atlanta?
[01:46:55]  And she goes, finally she says, no, I didn't talk to the U.S. attorney in Atlanta.
[01:46:58]  I can only speak for Tampa.
[01:47:00]  I go, so the seven years is only for Tampa.
[01:47:03]  And she goes, right.
[01:47:04]  Yes.
[01:47:05]  I said, oh, yeah, we're done.
[01:47:06]  We're done.
[01:47:07]  I wouldn't believe you if you told me water was wet.
[01:47:10]  It's over.
[01:47:11]  And I just chucked the phone out the window.
[01:47:13]  Right.
[01:47:13]  Kept on going.
[01:47:14]  I go all the way back.
[01:47:15]  I have to stay at a hotel, whatever.
[01:47:17]  I end up going back to Charlotte to get my car.
[01:47:19]  I don't have a vehicle, I'm driving a rider truck.
[01:47:22]  Wow.
[01:47:23]  So I dropped the rider truck.
[01:47:24]  We'd emptied it, by the way.
[01:47:25]  We'd emptied it.
[01:47:26]  Now Becky has all my furniture.
[01:47:28]  She's got like $50,000 worth of furniture.
[01:47:31]  And all the money.
[01:47:32]  Yeah.
[01:47:33]  So I've got like my clothes and a hundred grand, which is not a bad start, I admit.
[01:47:37]  You know, and I have a certain skill set.
[01:47:40]  Yeah.
[01:47:40]  Definitely.
[01:47:40]  I'm going to be okay.
[01:47:41]  But I have no, my ID, like I have an ID that's questionable because she knows, for all I know, she's calling up saying, hey, this guy is traveling on this side.
[01:47:49]  I don't know.
[01:47:51]  So I can't, everything's tainted.
[01:47:53]  So I go back to Charlotte.
[01:47:54]  I drop off the writer truck.
[01:47:55]  I take a taxi back to the apartment where my car's parked.
[01:47:59]  And I remember thinking I'd gotten several phones on my cell phone from.
[01:48:05]  The detective to Michael Eckert.
[01:48:09]  So he'd put together that Gary Sullivan and Michael Eckert were the same person.
[01:48:14]  So I know they've probably tracked me back to Charlotte.
[01:48:16]  So I go there, I see my car, I look around, and I remember thinking, if the car's okay, they haven't been here.
[01:48:22]  They're not here.
[01:48:23]  So I get the car, I drive down the parking garage, I pull out, I go across the street, across the street from the apartment complex, from the condo, whatever place that I'm staying in downtown Charlotte, and I go to Starbucks.
[01:48:36]  I need a Starbucks.
[01:48:38]  Pull my car up to Starbucks.
[01:48:40]  I've got a Infinity, the sports car, the two-door sports car Infinity, like a G something.
[01:48:46]  So, brand new.
[01:48:47]  So, I pull up, I get out, I go into the Starbucks.
[01:48:51]  I'm standing there, I'm waiting, and I see two people from the leasing office, and they're giving me weird looks.
[01:49:00]  And it was like the sixth, fifth or sixth.
[01:49:02]  And I remember thinking my rent's due on the first, but I hadn't paid it because I'm leaving.
[01:49:07]  And I'm looking at them.
[01:49:08]  They're really, they're whispering to each other.
[01:49:11]  There's something going on.
[01:49:11]  There's a real issue between the two of them.
[01:49:14]  But I'm not thinking anything.
[01:49:16]  I just picked up my car.
[01:49:17]  If anybody had tracked me back here, I'm good.
[01:49:19]  So I missed them.
[01:49:20]  So finally, one of the people leaves.
[01:49:22]  The woman, the female leasing agent walks out the back.
[01:49:25]  They call this guy's order.
[01:49:27]  He gets the order.
[01:49:27]  He's got it in his little styrofoam tray.
[01:49:30]  I get my order.
[01:49:31]  I walk outside.
[01:49:32]  He follows me.
[01:49:33]  I get in my car.
[01:49:36]  What I didn't know at the time was that the female leasing agent had gone across the street and gotten the U.S. Marshals who are currently interviewing people at the apartment complex.
[01:49:46]  They are now running back to the Starbucks.
[01:49:49]  So I get in my car, and when I get in my car, the guy is sitting there, and he starts screaming, he's right here, he's right here.
[01:49:55]  And I look in the rearview mirror, and the marshals are running behind, are on foot running.
[01:50:01]  I had already started the car, so I just hit the gas, and I just drive off.
[01:50:04]  And they're standing in the middle of the street, and they call.
[01:50:06]  I actually have a Freedom of Information Act that says that they had called and put out a bolo for, you know, for what's a bolo in your car?
[01:50:15]  Be on the lookout for.
[01:50:16]  Okay.
[01:50:16]  And the name, the tag number of the vehicle.
[01:50:19]  Yeah.
[01:50:20]  So I went straight to a homeless facility, not even half a mile away.
[01:50:27]  I pull over.
[01:50:29]  I'm terrified, but I've got to get some IDs.
[01:50:32]  And I saw a few guys standing outside.
[01:50:35]  So I get out of the car.
[01:50:37]  I walk straight over.
[01:50:38]  Listen, it's not easy to find like a 35 year old, 36 year old white guy who's homeless.
[01:50:44]  Yeah.
[01:50:45]  If he was African American, fine.
[01:50:48]  They're everywhere.
[01:50:49]  If I was 50, a 50 year old white guy, 60 year old white guy, you could find them.
[01:50:54]  But we're talking about a 35 year old guy.
[01:50:56]  So I see these three guys and I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to pull over.
[01:50:59]  That's them.
[01:51:00]  Pull over, walk out.
[01:51:01]  Hey, my name's John.
[01:51:03]  I'm from Salvation Army.
[01:51:04]  I'm doing a survey.
[01:51:05]  I take a survey.
[01:51:06]  I end up getting several IDs.
[01:51:08]  I think Walter Holcomb.
[01:51:10]  One of them was a guy named, come on, Joseph Marion Carter Jr.
[01:51:18]  And I went by Carter.
[01:51:21]  I didn't want to go by Joseph.
[01:51:22]  I'd be Joe.
[01:51:23]  I don't want to be a Joe.
[01:51:24]  I'm not a Joe.
[01:51:25]  Joe's a kind of guy that's kind of a tough guy.
[01:51:27]  He could, you know, you can puke in his car.
[01:51:30]  He's cool.
[01:51:30]  He drinks with you.
[01:51:31]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:51:33]  I'm not Joe.
[01:51:34]  I'm not a Joe.
[01:51:35]  I don't want to be Marion.
[01:51:36]  I'm going to get picked on.
[01:51:38]  I don't want to be a junior.
[01:51:39]  So I went with Carter.
[01:51:40]  So I go with Carter.
[01:51:42]  I immediately drive to Nashville, walk into Nashville, go to Green Hills, happen to see a guy.
[01:51:50]  I immediately get a cell phone and I get a business card made for Manufactured Funding Group, which is who I said I worked for.
[01:52:00]  Drive through Green Hills, see a guy putting a sign in the front yard of a house, which is actually a duplex.
[01:52:06]  Green Hills is a really nice area in Nashville.
[01:52:09]  See him, I get out, I walk over, and I say, Hey, I'm new to the area.
[01:52:11]  I'm looking for a place to stay.
[01:52:13]  And he goes, Okay.
[01:52:14]  And I walk in the place, I come back, and he says, Great.
[01:52:16]  And I say, Hey, here's my business card.
[01:52:20]  I don't really have a reference right now.
[01:52:22]  Is there any way I can give you double the security deposit?
[01:52:25]  I don't really have any credit.
[01:52:27]  I don't have any idea what this guy Carter's got.
[01:52:31]  I still have to go get a kid's social security number issued.
[01:52:37]  So the guy looks at me, he goes, You look like an honest guy.
[01:52:41]  And I remember thinking, I'm going to do well.
[01:52:44]  Do I really?
[01:52:44]  You dumb motherfucker.
[01:52:45]  I am going to do well here.
[01:52:47]  So he said, Give me the first month security, sign this.
[01:52:52]  No problem.
[01:52:53]  By the end of the day, I got my electric water.
[01:52:56]  The next day, they turned the electric water on.
[01:52:58]  I'm good.
[01:52:59]  I've ordered furniture.
[01:53:02]  I then drive.
[01:53:03]  I then, within a week, I've got a driver's license.
[01:53:10]  I ordered all of.
[01:53:11]  Carter's information.
[01:53:12]  I get all the information.
[01:53:13]  I get a driver's license.
[01:53:15]  I drive the car back to Charlotte.
[01:53:18]  I leave it in long term park.
[01:53:19]  That same car?
[01:53:20]  Same car.
[01:53:20]  All the way back.
[01:53:21]  You're not worried about getting pulled over in that car?
[01:53:22]  Terrified.
[01:53:23]  Why don't you get rid of it?
[01:53:24]  I don't want them to find it in Nashville.
[01:53:26]  Okay.
[01:53:27]  So I drive it all the way back, park, long term, get on a plane, fly back, go immediately, buy a new car, no credit, convince them to give me a new car, 20% down, get a new car, go back, driver's license.
[01:53:44]  Passport completely set up within a month or two.
[01:53:50]  I'm buying houses again, all over again.
[01:53:53]  I borrowed 3.5 million in in Nashville.
[01:53:59]  Wow, I meet this girl named Amanda.
[01:54:03]  She's amazing.
[01:54:06]  And how old Amanda, anyway.
[01:54:10]  Yeah, she was like 25 at this point.
[01:54:11]  I'm 26.
[01:54:12]  No, she's 24.
[01:54:13]  I'm 26.
[01:54:14]  No, I'm sorry, what am I saying?
[01:54:16]  She's 24 and I was 36.
[01:54:18]  Okay.
[01:54:18]  I turned 37.
[01:54:20]  We dated for about a year.
[01:54:22]  We, you know, we traveled all over the place.
[01:54:24]  We went to, gosh, we went to Italy.
[01:54:27]  We went to Croatia.
[01:54:28]  So you're doing this all over again.
[01:54:30]  You're making money.
[01:54:31]  Yeah.
[01:54:31]  I have to have like $100,000.

=== Traveling with Amanda Around the World (02:24) ===

[01:54:33]  I'm broke.
[01:54:36]  So I pull out a bunch more money.
[01:54:38]  I meet Amanda.
[01:54:39]  Amanda's amazing.
[01:54:40]  And we're doing great.
[01:54:43]  And I remember we went to Venice.
[01:54:46]  And it had been about a year.
[01:54:47]  And by this point, things are, by this point, Becky's been arrested.
[01:54:55]  Oh, shit.
[01:54:56]  Becky is a gangster, by the way.
[01:54:57]  I was just about to ask what happened to Becky.
[01:54:59]  Becky gets grabbed.
[01:55:01]  What happens with Becky is she ends up confiding in a family member where she's the general vicinity of where she's at and that she's currently in beauty school.
[01:55:12]  So her family member calls the Secret Service, says she's in a beauty school in this city.
[01:55:19]  So she's wanted too.
[01:55:20]  Yeah.
[01:55:20]  Still, yeah.
[01:55:21]  But her family member, you know, It wasn't like she was malicious.
[01:55:27]  She just wanted her back.
[01:55:30]  So they come in, guns drawn, the whole thing on her.
[01:55:37]  Get on the ground, get on the ground.
[01:55:39]  The Secret Service agent told me the whole time, from the moment they handcuffed her to the moment they got her all the way back, she bitched and moaned the whole time saying, I don't, my name is Rebecca Sue Hickey.
[01:55:53]  I don't know who Rebecca Houck is.
[01:55:55]  You guys made a mistake.
[01:55:56]  You're gonna lose your job.
[01:55:58]  You've embarrassed me.
[01:55:59]  I'm gonna sue you, i'm gonna, i'm.
[01:56:02]  So she just played that card the whole time, screaming the hall.
[01:56:04]  They said all the way up to the point when they put her hand down on like the scanner and they get and she goes, okay, all right, i'm Becky, i'm Rebecca Halk.
[01:56:14]  What do you want to know?
[01:56:15]  Holy, and I remember thinking, and he was like it was like an hour.
[01:56:21]  They, he said, I mean she was, they're like it's you, we know it's you.
[01:56:25]  So what did she tell them?
[01:56:26]  Once she got caught, First thing they said is, Where's Matt Cox?
[01:56:29]  And she said, I have no clue.
[01:56:31]  He left me like a year ago.
[01:56:33]  And so they're like, Damn, she didn't know where I am.
[01:56:36]  Yeah.
[01:56:37]  So at this point, I'm borrowing money.
[01:56:40]  At this point, what's happened is Amanda and I are one day sitting in the dentist's office and she picks up a Bloomberg Businessweek.
[01:56:51]  And keep in mind, the St. Petersburg Times, which is now the Tampa Bay Times.
[01:56:55]  Yeah, there's a guy like.
[01:56:56]  Testerman, Jeff Testerman.
[01:56:57]  Okay, yeah.

=== Sitting in Dentist Office Together (06:05) ===

[01:56:58]  They did.
[01:56:59]  Roughly 35 articles on me.
[01:57:02]  Tampa Tribune did articles.
[01:57:06]  The Chicago Tribune did them.
[01:57:09]  They did a whole series called The Fugitive.
[01:57:12]  The Atlanta Journal Constitution.
[01:57:15]  I mean, it just goes, you know, so it's everywhere.
[01:57:18]  At this point, Dateline's putting together a segment.
[01:57:21]  I was in Fortune Magazine, did a whole segment on Becky and her take of the whole womanizer, manipulator, you know, that whole thing.
[01:57:32]  The.
[01:57:33]  Forcing boob jobs, forcing her to leave her son, you know just, are you serious?
[01:57:39]  So you know a bad guy, you know.
[01:57:43]  So anyway, it's uh.
[01:57:46]  So i'm with uh Amanda and we had just I remember we were going through the um Mediterranean, we were on, I took a cruise.
[01:57:56]  So it sounds rough, doesn't?
[01:57:57]  It sounds like a lot a rough life.
[01:57:59]  I remember looking over at Amanda my, at this point she's like 25, i'm like 37.
[01:58:04]  She knows what you're doing, your whole deal, she knows, Yeah.
[01:58:07]  And I look over at her.
[01:58:08]  She's 25, bathing suit.
[01:58:10]  We're on a European cruise ship going through the Mediterranean.
[01:58:13]  Oh, you're living the good life.
[01:58:14]  And I'm like, this is so worth it.
[01:58:18]  Yeah.
[01:58:18]  Wow.
[01:58:19]  It wasn't, by the way, it wasn't worth the prison term.
[01:58:22]  But I remember thinking, this is one of those moments.
[01:58:25]  Yeah.
[01:58:25]  This is amazing.
[01:58:26]  People are calling me, you know, Mr. Carter.
[01:58:30]  Yeah.
[01:58:30]  I'm walking through passport.
[01:58:32]  It's like, smell the roses.
[01:58:33]  Yeah.
[01:58:34]  I'm walking through passport control.
[01:58:36]  Boom.
[01:58:36]  Hi, Mr. Carter.
[01:58:37]  Are you giving them a passport?
[01:58:38]  I mean, it's like James Bond.
[01:58:40]  You feel like James Bond.
[01:58:43]  When you walk into Bank of America and you give them a bunch of false documents and they're calling you Mr. Black.
[01:58:50]  Yeah.
[01:58:50]  And they give you a check for $250,000 and then thank you.
[01:58:55]  For ripping them off.
[01:58:56]  Yeah.
[01:58:56]  You walk out like this is better than the money.
[01:59:01]  Yeah.
[01:59:01]  Forget some money.
[01:59:02]  This is a thrill, right?
[01:59:03]  Living in a movie.
[01:59:04]  Yeah.
[01:59:05]  It's ridiculous.
[01:59:06]  It really is.
[01:59:07]  And, you know, right up until that sentencing.
[01:59:10]  Yeah.
[01:59:10]  So anyway, what happens is Amanda and I start seeing a girl.
[01:59:15]  Amanda lives with me.
[01:59:16]  Yeah.
[01:59:18]  We start seeing a girl.
[01:59:21]  I dated this girl like one time.
[01:59:24]  And Amanda, you know, you're with a girl.
[01:59:28]  And, you know, eventually they start saying, you ever been interested with being with two women?
[01:59:34]  And I'm like, of course, like, you know, I'm like, no, I would never do that.
[01:59:39]  I, you know, have you ever done that?
[01:59:40]  I'm like, yes, once.
[01:59:41]  It's bumpy and awkward.
[01:59:43]  It's just, it's just, it's not my thing.
[01:59:46]  And she's like, really?
[01:59:47]  I'm like, no.
[01:59:49]  Of course, of course.
[01:59:50]  Yes.
[01:59:50]  Yeah.
[01:59:50]  She's like, would you be interested?
[01:59:52]  I'm like, absolutely.
[01:59:53]  Of course.
[01:59:54]  You know, I was like, actually, I said, no, no, baby, but I'll do it for you out of love for you.
[01:59:58]  Yeah.
[01:59:59]  I'm not interested.
[02:00:00]  Yeah.
[02:00:00]  But I'll do it for you.
[02:00:02]  So anyway, we start seeing this girl.
[02:00:04]  She comes over every once in a while.
[02:00:06]  And what ends up happening is Amanda finds out that Dateline's coming out.
[02:00:12]  Dateline's going to do a one-hour special.
[02:00:15]  And now I realize I just can't stay here anymore.
[02:00:18]  You know, I like the United States.
[02:00:20]  I didn't really want to leave the United States because I know, I knew how to, basically, I knew how to run a scam in the United States.
[02:00:27]  I don't really know what it's going to be like in another country, but I know I can't stay here.
[02:00:31]  So.
[02:00:32]  We've got a few million.
[02:00:33]  We've got, unfortunately, we have a million or so at least in real estate.
[02:00:37]  So the money's all over the place, but we got some money.
[02:00:41]  So we decide look, we're going to get a couple, two, three million dollars out, and then I'll take off.
[02:00:45]  I've got a month or so.
[02:00:46]  I've got the real estate.
[02:00:47]  I satisfy all the loans on everything I have.
[02:00:49]  We start, I start borrowing.
[02:00:51]  We start having people cash, get cash for us.
[02:00:54]  One of the things was this, the girl, she ends up getting, Amanda ends up asking her to cash some checks.
[02:01:05]  I don't know.
[02:01:06]  That.
[02:01:06]  That's what sparked the conversation.
[02:01:08]  But somehow or another Amanda ends up telling her why she's like you don't understand, he's leaving, he's going to Australia.
[02:01:14]  We'd already researched, done the research on Australia.
[02:01:17]  Um, you can become a.
[02:01:18]  At that time you could become a permanent resident alien.
[02:01:21]  You didn't have to actually get fingerprints or anything, you could go there.
[02:01:24]  You get a driver's license, you get a bunch, you get a lot, even though you can't work there.
[02:01:28]  But you can open a business.
[02:01:29]  So you have to like, show up with like two hundred thousand dollars.
[02:01:32]  Well, i'm showing up with millions.
[02:01:34]  Yeah, so i'm good.
[02:01:35]  So we decide i'm gonna go, Amanda's gonna come with me, And while we're pulling out the cash, it ends up that this girl contacts the Secret Service and negotiates a reward for turning me in.
[02:01:54]  And she turns me in.
[02:01:57]  And one day I'm coming back to the apartment.
[02:02:00]  We'd had a robbery, like a home invasion, a couple nights beforehand.
[02:02:04]  So I pull up, I get out of the car.
[02:02:07]  About the same time, I'm on the phone with Amanda.
[02:02:09]  Amanda tells me, Oh my God.
[02:02:11]  I think something went wrong, and I'm like, What do you mean?
[02:02:13]  She says, I just got a phone call from this other girl.
[02:02:17]  Her name was Trina, from Trina, and she's asking me where I am.
[02:02:21]  She's asking me a bunch of questions.
[02:02:23]  She asked if I was at the office, like didn't want her to go to the house.
[02:02:27]  Right.
[02:02:28]  And she was, I think she may have done something.
[02:02:30]  I'm like, done what?
[02:02:31]  She doesn't know anything.
[02:02:33]  And then Amanda's like, I think I fucked up.
[02:02:36]  And so I'm like, what do you mean you fucked up?
[02:02:38]  And I'm getting out of the car and everything.
[02:02:39]  And, you know, realizing she's not really telling me, but I'm realizing something's wrong.
[02:02:43]  And that's the Secret Service show up and guns and get on the ground, get on the ground.
[02:02:48]  And I just remember blanking out.
[02:02:50]  Like I didn't even get on the ground.
[02:02:51]  I'm just like, just.
[02:02:54]  Yeah, you just weren't expecting it then.
[02:02:55]  But you knew that was it.
[02:02:56]  You knew that was the end.
[02:02:57]  Oh, yeah.
[02:02:58]  Well, you know, then I lay down.
[02:03:00]  They like, he goes, get on the ground.
[02:03:02]  The guy gets all the way up to me with the gun.

=== Arguing Against Sentence Enhancements (03:52) ===

[02:03:03]  He's like, and that's the first, like, there's so many people yelling.
[02:03:06]  I just kind of like blanked out.
[02:03:07]  I remember he goes, he comes right up to me.
[02:03:09]  He goes, get on the ground.
[02:03:10]  I was like, oh, oh.
[02:03:11]  So I get on the ground.
[02:03:12]  They cuff me, pick me up.
[02:03:15]  They hold up the poster and they're like, is that him?
[02:03:17]  He's like, no, it's him.
[02:03:18]  It's him.
[02:03:18]  It's him.
[02:03:18]  So they kind of go, okay, is it him?
[02:03:20]  He goes, yeah, definitely him.
[02:03:21]  It's definitely him.
[02:03:22]  So he's like, hey, Mr. Cox.
[02:03:24]  He said, we've been looking for you.
[02:03:25]  You are Matt Cox, right?
[02:03:26]  And I went, Yeah, I'm at Cox.
[02:03:29]  Unlike Becky, who went gangster all the way.
[02:03:32]  Yeah.
[02:03:32]  Immediately.
[02:03:33]  Okay, you got me.
[02:03:34]  Yeah.
[02:03:35]  So, yeah, so they drive me back, and I eventually end up doing Dateline because when I got caught, the government asked me to be interviewed by Dateline.
[02:03:48]  So I was interviewed by Dateline.
[02:03:50]  And, you know, they started off saying I'd stolen $26 million.
[02:03:57]  And we argued for a while until I got him down.
[02:04:02]  Wow.
[02:04:02]  And then eventually the PSI, which is your pre sentence report, that they said that there was $9.5 million in loss.
[02:04:09]  I argued about that.
[02:04:10]  I got it down to $6 million.
[02:04:12]  And I ended up getting sentenced.
[02:04:14]  And I was sentenced.
[02:04:16]  I thought I was going to get 12 years.
[02:04:18]  And instead.
[02:04:19]  You took a plea for that?
[02:04:20]  I took what's called an open plea, which means you get whatever the PSI says.
[02:04:24]  Well, my lawyer looked at the PSI and she said, well, we can figure it out.
[02:04:28]  You do this, She's like, you're in between 12 to 14 years.
[02:04:33]  Okay.
[02:04:34]  I understand.
[02:04:35]  So we go in thinking 12 to 14 years.
[02:04:38]  Plus, I'd done the interview for Dateline, which they said they were going to consider substantial assistance and they were going to reduce my sentence.
[02:04:45]  They were going to put in something called a 5K1 to reduce your sentence based on this interview they asked me to do.
[02:04:52]  Technically, a 5K1 is for cooperation against your co-defendants, but I don't have any co-defendants.
[02:04:58]  Right.
[02:04:59]  Yeah.
[02:04:59]  Becky's been caught.
[02:05:00]  Everybody else in Tampa.
[02:05:02]  Has either cooperated and been sentenced or was not subject to be indicted or they were going to indict them, but it had been so long, it hadn't happened.
[02:05:15]  So I just did the interview.
[02:05:20]  Not that I wouldn't have cooperated and didn't fully intend to cooperate.
[02:05:23]  I'm ready to cut anybody's head off to get out of this.
[02:05:28]  I'm no gangster.
[02:05:29]  I mean, you got these guys that are like, I'm going to do the time I did.
[02:05:33]  Okay, well, you do that, bro.
[02:05:35]  But.
[02:05:36]  I'm not interested in having my son call another guy dad or have my mother visit me in prison for the next 10 years because I want to act like I'm some kind of tough guy.
[02:05:44]  I filled out paperwork.
[02:05:46]  Yeah.
[02:05:46]  You know, that's the extent of my crime.
[02:05:47]  I filled out some paperwork.
[02:05:49]  I borrowed some money.
[02:05:51]  There's no guns.
[02:05:51]  I'm not getting into a shootout, but there's just nobody.
[02:05:55]  It's not possible.
[02:05:57]  So I do the interview, and they said they'd reduce my sentence for it.
[02:05:59]  Well, I get in there.
[02:06:00]  I'm thinking 12 years.
[02:06:01]  I get a PSI that says 26.
[02:06:04]  And then the night before, My lawyer's like, yeah, but this doesn't apply.
[02:06:08]  This doesn't apply.
[02:06:08]  Don't worry.
[02:06:09]  We're going to talk in front of the judge.
[02:06:10]  We're going to get that knocked off.
[02:06:11]  She seemed very confident.
[02:06:14]  And plus, you're going to get your sentence reduced.
[02:06:15]  Well, the night before, the U.S. attorney says, Yeah, I'm not going to reduce the sentence.
[02:06:21]  It's not enough.
[02:06:23]  So I go into sentencing, and my lawyer argues in front of the judge, and the judge just says, No, I disagree.
[02:06:29]  I disagree.
[02:06:30]  With every enhancement, I disagree.
[02:06:31]  I think that applies.
[02:06:32]  I disagree.
[02:06:32]  I think that applies.
[02:06:33]  I disagree.
[02:06:34]  I think that applies.
[02:06:35]  So every time he says, I disagree, that 12 years keeps going up and up.
[02:06:38]  Wow.
[02:06:38]  To 26.
[02:06:40]  He sentences me to 26.
[02:06:41]  I get 26 years.
[02:06:43]  And where is this?
[02:06:44]  In Florida?
[02:06:44]  This was in Atlanta.
[02:06:46]  All of my cases were consolidated.
[02:06:48]  In Atlanta.
[02:06:48]  Tennessee, Atlanta.
[02:06:51]  South Carolina, Tampa were all consolidated there.
[02:06:54]  Holy shit, dude.

=== Sentenced to Medium Security Prison (02:52) ===

[02:06:56]  Yeah, 26.
[02:06:57]  It was a bad day.
[02:06:58]  That was a bad day.
[02:06:59]  Yeah, what is that day like after you get sentenced for 26?
[02:07:03]  I mean, talk about like, if I really.
[02:07:05]  Are you trying to talk your way out of it still somehow?
[02:07:08]  What?
[02:07:08]  After all?
[02:07:09]  Anything, yeah.
[02:07:10]  After this hits you.
[02:07:11]  I'm done.
[02:07:12]  Yeah, you give up at that point.
[02:07:14]  Well, you know, you always hold out hope.
[02:07:19]  You know, it doesn't mean you can't.
[02:07:22]  Psychologically, I couldn't sit down and say, Oh, I'm just going to do the time.
[02:07:25]  Yeah.
[02:07:26]  I've got, you know, I'm, look, you know, it doesn't sound good.
[02:07:30]  I'm a schemer.
[02:07:31]  I'm always looking for an angle.
[02:07:33]  Yeah.
[02:07:33]  I'm always trying to figure out how to get around something, through something, over something.
[02:07:40]  You know, I'm trying to figure out something.
[02:07:42]  So I'm trying to figure out how do I get out of this.
[02:07:45]  Yeah.
[02:07:46]  But that day, when you get 26 years and you're walking down, you know, that hallway, I mean, Right.
[02:07:53]  You're trying to just digest all that.
[02:07:55]  It's a bad thing.
[02:07:56]  I mean, talking about just being just fundamentally just fractured to the core.
[02:08:01]  I mean, I tell you right now, I've never, you know, and based on like me talking about it, you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you know, it's a lot of laughing and joking and, you know, and I'm very proud of myself.
[02:08:17]  Good stories.
[02:08:18]  Yeah.
[02:08:18]  And good stories, you know, and it's the narcissist in me that, you know, finds it comical and funny and it's very surface, you know, I don't, Like I said, I don't really think about the fact that the Browns had to go through hell trying to fix their house.
[02:08:33]  I told myself they're just going to fill out some paperwork and it's going to be fine.
[02:08:37]  I don't really focus on those things.
[02:08:38]  I compartmentalize them.
[02:08:40]  But that day, I mean, just fractured my psyche to the point where if I even think about it or focus on it at all, I mean, I'm just like an emotional mess.
[02:08:56]  Wow.
[02:08:58]  You know, doing all of those things and then going to prison, and then I was sent to a medium because I had so much time.
[02:09:03]  Well, there's super maxes, which is like where terrorists go, nobody goes there.
[02:09:07]  So there's pins, and uh, the pen at Coleman they have two penitentiaries, and then they have a medium security prison, and they have a low security prison, and they have a camp.
[02:09:19]  It's a woman's camp, though.
[02:09:20]  Yeah, so I went to the medium because I had so much time, and I mean, it was nonviolent.
[02:09:26]  The medium, no, no, I mean, I mean, your crime was a nonviolent, right?
[02:09:29]  I was gonna say, yeah, listen, the first day when I show up.
[02:09:32]  Yeah, what's that like?
[02:09:33]  I get there, and as soon as I get there, I get my room, like I meet my Sully, and I always say Sully.
[02:09:42]  People hear that, and they think that's what you're the guy.
[02:09:44]  Your cellmate.
[02:09:45]  Your cellmate.
[02:09:46]  Yeah, your Sully.
[02:09:46]  So I meet my Sully, Mexican guy.

=== Lockdown Life at Coleman (03:06) ===

[02:09:49]  Hey, man, what's going on?
[02:09:51]  Oh, you just get here.
[02:09:52]  Oh, yeah.
[02:09:53]  Okay.
[02:09:53]  So I meet him, and I'm walking downstairs, and I remember all of a sudden they start screaming, lockdown, lockdown, lockdown.
[02:10:01]  And my Sully runs up to me.
[02:10:03]  And he says, Hey, hey, hey.
[02:10:04]  He said, Sally, Sally, you got to go in the cell now.
[02:10:07]  We got to go in the cell.
[02:10:08]  I'm like, Okay, what's going on?
[02:10:09]  And we walk into the cell.
[02:10:10]  When we go in the cell, I'm like, What happened?
[02:10:11]  What happened?
[02:10:12]  Oh, someone got stabbed on the yard.
[02:10:14]  And I went, someone got stabbed.
[02:10:15]  And he was in the recreation yard.
[02:10:17]  Somebody got stabbed.
[02:10:18]  And I go, oh, my God, someone died?
[02:10:20]  And he goes, no, no, no.
[02:10:20]  He just got stabbed up a little bit.
[02:10:22]  Stabbed up a little bit.
[02:10:24]  Poked a couple times.
[02:10:25]  You can understand the world you're in.
[02:10:27]  You're like stabbed up a little bit.
[02:10:29]  And he's like a jumbo shrimp.
[02:10:31]  You know what I mean?
[02:10:31]  It's just a complete contradiction.
[02:10:32]  I'm like, that's where you are now.
[02:10:35]  Yeah.
[02:10:35]  You don't talk.
[02:10:36]  This is day one.
[02:10:37]  Oh, this is day one.
[02:10:38]  Listen, I'm sitting in a, you know, you go into the cafeteria and you sit down and guys are like, oh, you just get here?
[02:10:44]  Yeah.
[02:10:45]  All right.
[02:10:45]  That's if they talk at all.
[02:10:46]  Most people just don't even really talk.
[02:10:47]  They're just, you got guys.
[02:10:49]  I complain.
[02:10:50]  I just got 26 years.
[02:10:52]  And the one guy's like, yeah, I got 30 for selling a little bit of crack.
[02:10:57]  The other two guys are leaving in a pine box.
[02:11:00]  They're like, yeah, life, life.
[02:11:02]  So I can't even bitch about my time because this guy got 30 for bringing a gun to a $10 crack deal and gets 30 years.
[02:11:16]  These two guys are never leaving alive.
[02:11:19]  And so how do you even complain after that?
[02:11:23]  Wow.
[02:11:24]  So it took three years before this.
[02:11:27]  You lived like a king for so long.
[02:11:29]  You made so much money.
[02:11:31]  You traveled the world.
[02:11:33]  It doesn't matter.
[02:11:34]  And all of that, you get 26 years compared to a guy who just bought some dope at the wrong place at the wrong time.
[02:11:42]  And he got more time than you.
[02:11:43]  That's crazy to think of.
[02:11:45]  Yeah, well, what's crazy is that I remember watching TV and we were watching the news one day, and I'm sitting there watching, and this guy had drowned his 11 year old niece.
[02:12:00]  He was babysitting her, and he drowned her on purpose.
[02:12:04]  And he pled guilty to 13 years.
[02:12:08]  And I remember thinking, he got half my sentence for drowning.
[02:12:12]  He killed somebody.
[02:12:14]  On purpose.
[02:12:14]  I can't.
[02:12:15]  Yeah, she was playing in a pool, and she'd splashed him, and he told her to stop, and he got pissed, and he drowned her.
[02:12:19]  What the fuck?
[02:12:20]  And I remember just thinking, Wow.
[02:12:24]  So, you know, you can debate the amount of time.
[02:12:27]  You know, it's all relative.
[02:12:29]  Some people would say it wasn't enough.
[02:12:30]  Some people would say it was too much.
[02:12:32]  I feel like it was too much, but then nobody's asking my opinion.
[02:12:35]  Right.
[02:12:35]  You know, I'm biased.
[02:12:38]  So, yeah, it was bad day.
[02:12:41]  Bad day.
[02:12:43]  Wow, man.
[02:12:43]  Well, how long is this?
[02:12:45]  We did about two and a half hours.
[02:12:46]  Are you serious?
[02:12:47]  Yeah.
[02:12:48]  That's a good place to end it, I think, for this one.
[02:12:50]  You've got to trip on 30 minutes off of that.
[02:12:53]  No, that's good.
[02:12:54]  We'll let it roll.