Healthcare Without Propaganda: Dr. Drew Pinsky On His Mission to Restore Medical Freedom | TRIGGERED Ep.125
Healthcare Without Propaganda: Dr. Drew Pinsky On His Mission to Restore Medical Freedom | TRIGGERED Ep.125
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Hey guys, welcome to another huge episode of Triggered, and tonight's episode I've been really looking forward to for quite some time.
We'll be joined by Dr. Drew Pinsky.
You all know Dr. Drew.
He's one of the leading addiction medicine specialists.
He's a physician,
I don't know.
In medical school and all of these things, it's sort of like airplanes, like I want my pilots and my doctors to just be the best, not otherwise, so I think we'll have a lot of fun with this one.
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Well, guys, joining me now, Chief Patient Officer of The Wellness Company, the host of Ask Dr. Drew, which you can find right here on Rumble, board-certified physician, addiction medicine specialist, Dr. Drew Pinsky.
Drew, good to have you on here.
It's good to have you.
Good to be here, my friend.
It's just interesting.
I just thought to myself, damn, if I only had done The Apprentice back in the day, we would have met in person.
I know.
I think we have some friends in common, actually.
I know we've been talking about this for a while.
A bunch.
If you remain friendly with people from that show after you dismiss them from the boardroom, I don't know.
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of overlap there.
You know, honestly, I try to maintain friends with everyone.
Not so easy these days once you get into the world of politics.
That becomes harder.
I bet.
But I think as people sort of see the insanity of the world, maybe some of them, you know, come back around.
Who knows?
That would be nice.
I mean, that's what I look forward to.
Someday, you know, some great, better angels of our nature take over.
I do believe we have a collective together as a country, but I'm not sure we've taught it to enough people for them to understand that.
Well, you know, again, I'm not going to hold my breath, but I'm hoping we get there because, you know, I think it's probably desperately needed.
Yes, sir.
Indeed.
Well, you know, first, it's great to have you there.
And there's, you know, really so much to talk about.
I first just want to get your like, let's call it, you know, 36,000 foot view of where we stand in medicine today.
I mean, the last few years has sort of been really kind of
Eye-opening to that, and there seems to be this growing politicization of medicine.
You know, the science doesn't actually seem like science, or at least the science can be changed to sort of suit a narrative very quickly.
We've especially noticed this post-COVID.
We've seen, you know, the mandates, the lockdowns, you know, medical schools embracing DEI rather than competence, and so much more.
What are your concerns beyond the obvious, and what are your big missions right now in medicine?
Well, let me put that up front and then explain on the back side of that.
That's why I got involved with the wellness company, which I know you're involved with here, which is that I have been fighting my whole career to try to protect the sanctity and the autonomy of the physician and the physician-patient relationship.
I fought
Fought through the opioid crisis.
I'll tell you what that experience was like, if you wish.
I fought insurance companies off.
I fought state regulators off.
And COVID was such an eye-opening experience for me that I figured it was just shocking and deeply disturbing to me how physicians behave during the pandemic that I thought, we've lost.
It's over.
We have to get things to the patients directly.
And that's what wellness is all about, the wellness company.
When the pandemic started and I saw my peers literally refusing to care for patients, I mean, their sacred duty is to go in, do the best they can for that patient in front of them, improvise, figure something out, and follow up.
Instead, they stood down.
Why?
Because it turns out three quarters of them are employees, and their employer
Big hospital systems, insurance, whoever it was, said, stand down.
Tell these people to go home.
It's too dangerous.
Come back when they're blue, when they're dying.
This was disgusting.
I have never seen anything like this.
Then, anybody who wanted to try something, and this was the, I suppose I should reserve the word disgusting for this phase of the operation,
Which was anyone who wanted to do something was vilified.
If people wanted to improvise, wanted to try things, they were literally publicly shamed.
No different than an execution and it goes on to this day.
Yeah, I've remembered.
It's a horse pill!
I mean, you know, oh no, a couple years later.
Well, it turns out to be very effective.
Like, well, we knew that then.
The one I talk about, because again, it doesn't take a physician to sort of get it, was the vitriol, the vicious attacks for anyone who said, hey, do you think maybe the Wuhan virus came from the lab in Wuhan, China that studied said virus?
And if you were in science, and you said,
I don't know.
Possibly, probably, of course it's the most plausible.
We all know that now.
I knew it then, but if you were in medicine, that was it.
You were canceled, you'd lose your research funding, you'd lose tenure.
Of course it came from the lab that studied.
No, no, no, it came from four feet outside of the lab, Drew.
It came from right there.
There's a wet market two blocks down the street.
It came from there, not from the place that plays with this stuff on a daily basis.
And that, to me, was just shocking.
Just how blind everyone went and just how all in they went for something that literally, you could be a borderline imbecile and still be like, yeah, it probably came from there.
Or at least be able to go, hmm, I wonder if that's a possibility?
And if you said that, you were crushed.
And by the way, I read the Nature letter.
It wasn't an article, by the way.
It was compelling.
Their argument was compelling.
That is science, which is considering all things, being objective, always updating your theory, updating your priors.
That is following the science, not declaring from on high that you know what is right and just and absolutely the truth.
That is hysteria.
And hysteria grabbed us.
And so here's the things that were really disgusting.
So, look, I don't have a strong feeling about ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine, but I do have a strong feeling about protecting a physician's privilege for he or her
To use what they feel they need to do in the best interest of the patient.
It was interesting when this was all going on, I was doing a nightly show here locally on the news and my co-host, very great guy and a smart guy, we talked about something like this and he says, what about the FDA?
And I said, I don't
Why do I care about the FDA?
The FDA has nothing, nothing to do with the practice of medicine.
The FDA determines under what circumstance a product is brought to market by a company.
Then what is done with it is completely at the liberty of the physicians.
We can do literally anything with anything if we believe it's in the best interest of our patient.
That's it.
And that FDA, I taught medicine for years.
At no point did I go to any of the students or residents, but what's the FDA say about this?
Yeah.
Those words never came out of my mouth.
Ever.
Okay.
So look, protecting the physician privilege.
Then people spoke up and the FLCC said, well, geez, I think the risk to older folks, which turns out to be a thousand fold more, maybe we want to focus on that and not have so many consequences downstream from taking actions for people that really have no risk.
Crushed, crushed, and need to be destroyed immediately.
This was, look, the thing that gets me, and this is what everyone in your audience needs to be aware of, and this is what I talk about not infrequently on my Rumble stream, please do sign up, by the way, subscribe to my Rumble channel, that's Dr. Drew, but is that whenever you see a scientist or a clinician evangelizing, I don't mean religiously evangelizing, I mean evangelizing on a topic,
You should, all of your concerns, your bitey senses should go up immediately.
People don't know that the story on the opioid crisis, people want to blame the drug companies, which were duplicitous, and they're paying a price for it, but the real culprits, the people that created it and perpetrated it, were the evangelizing physicians, who believed they knew what was best, and they were gonna save the world from pain.
There should never be pain in the United States, ever.
Sound familiar?
Deborah Birx evangelizing for lockdowns.
Immediately we should be going, wait, wait a minute.
That is one person's opinion.
Let's get in the room and talk about this.
We shouldn't be caving to an evangelical point of view ever.
Yeah.
Well, I saw it.
I honestly, one of the, let's call it more aggressive, you know, conversations I've ever had, uh, with, with a doctor or frankly, you know, anyone outside of maybe some pretty aggressive business negotiations with, with like my children's pediatrician at the time was like literally,
We must vaccinate your kid!
And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, like, please explain to me why.
Like, I'm not a doctor, and I'll be open to your logic, but I'm saying I am, you know, a finance guy.
I understand math.
I can look at something, and I'm looking at, like,
There's a 0% chance within, you know, unless there's maybe some sort of, you know, gross pre-existing condition that we were aware of, or not aware of, that, like, my children would be susceptible to this.
If you're, you know, my 85-year-old grandmother or my 97-year-old grand- Man, that's different!
But it, you know, my children at the time, all basically under the age of 12, like, they were in, like, the 0% chance of major problems category.
And yet, they were like, we must do that.
I was like, just, no.
No.
But it was borderline, like, sort of knock-down conversation.
Like, I'm actually shocked that I had to get that stern on something that statistically seemed so obvious.
Well, you're making a great point.
So, let's say, I think there were, what, 215 under the age of 15 deaths in 2023?
Something like that?
Yeah.
I mean, and look, I'm not a pediatrician either.
I'm an adult medical doctor.
But risk-reward is what you're talking about.
And risk-reward analysis, or benefit-risk analysis, was abandoned in the name of this one priority.
Uber Alice!
Safety!
Stop COVID!
Now, if there was something about this virus that the public wasn't being told, that our government knew,
In other words, it was a bioweapon or something.
It had potential to morph into something more serious because of the way they designed it.
Well, by all means, let's vaccinate because that is a serious unknown risk that we might be protecting ourselves against.
On the vac side, I'm imagining at the point this was being recommended, we really didn't fully understand the risk of the vaccine to pediatric patients.
So you have a essentially zero risk.
And again, risk reward in a pediatric setting is very different than adult medicine.
They don't accept any deaths.
In other words, if there's 80 measles deaths, we've got to vaccinate the whole country.
And that's sort of how they think about it.
As an adult, it's not how we think about it.
We think about, what are the risks?
How many years of life are saved?
What kind of quality of life could be restored or lost?
It's all kinds of things we think about that pediatricians don't think about.
But by the way, speaking of pediatricians, remind yourself
Of the behavior of some of the public health officials during this COVID thing, which was bizarre.
I looked at who these guys were, these people were.
A lot of them were not doctors.
And those that were doctors were pediatricians.
Because pediatricians were the ones doing the vaccine distributions.
And so, like in our state, pediatrician was in there.
And I thought, oh, these guys don't know how to make adult medicine decisions.
They don't understand risk-reward even in adults.
I didn't realize it was that different because, yeah, like,
Like I said, in this conversation, it was by phone, right?
I'm getting very heated, and my ex-wife at the time, she's involved, and she's a little bit more of a warrior than me, and the doctor literally said, I'm texting you this article, and it was literally like, 10-year-old dies of COVID.
Well, so I actually get beyond the headline, and literally the end of paragraph one, well, the child had an enlarged heart and seven other like... Right.
I felt terrible, but I'm like, that's not the example for me.
Vaccinate that kid.
Definitely vaccinate that kid.
For sure, vaccinate that kid.
Fine.
But there's a really interesting thing happening, which is that people are having difficulty right now understanding even the difference between the utility of the vaccine in, say, September of 2020,
And you tell you the vaccine over the last year, it's a different illness now.
And so again, the risk reward analysis is different.
People are yelling at me.
I'm very, very, very worried about the young males because I've seen a lot of cardiac problems from the vaccine.
I've also seen a lot of what we call long COVID from the vaccine.
So this is a concern here, even in adult population, but especially in young adult population males where we're seeing all this cardiac injury.
And you know people argue, oh it's only one in 15,000, it's only one in 5,000 and you're worrying about it.
Yes, it is only one in 5,000 or one in 10,000 or one in 15,000 that are going to be hurt for an illness for whom the risk for that population is zero.
Literally zero.
So why would I do that?
Why would I take any risk in vaccinating that population?
So
The hysteria that captured us was really shocking to me.
And it captured my profession as well as everywhere else.
Yeah, I mean, you touched on it a little bit, but obviously, you know, a big part of sort of the COVID chaos seemed to be centered around those major institutions just trying to undermine medical freedom itself.
Like, you know, they've done a lot with speech, but it really seemed like it was just a power grab, right?
Well, was it?
I mean, you can...
You're closer to it than I am.
I mean, I can fantasize all kinds of things that people were doing that I don't know if that's what they were doing, but it sure looked like that.
It looked like taking people who were prone that way
Jumping all the way in and enjoying it.
Like our governor here seemed to enjoy locking down this state.
I don't know how else to describe it.
I'm sure he must have in his private moments not felt great about what he was doing to people.
But it's something that if I had done, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
I didn't know when I had trouble sleeping at night.
I remember I kept thinking about Disneyland versus Disney World.
I thought
My god, the tens of thousands of jobs and business that we've destroyed around Disneyland on our second year of lockdown versus Disney World where it's been open the whole time.
It's just, I couldn't, I can't understand how you can sleep at night when you know you have an A-B test, you have it right there and it's failing.
Change direction.
So, I mean, how skeptical should people like myself or yourself or anyone watching be of, you know, some of these bigger institutions like the World Health Organization or perhaps even our own CDC or the NIH?
Because, like, it feels like they're just, I mean, in the sort of case of the World Health Organization, it felt like they were like China's marketing department.
It was like,
Jaina said this, we're going to, sure.
Like it doesn't have to make any sense.
It doesn't have to be real.
Are you familiar with the treaty that they are passing around right now?
Do you know about this?
I've heard, give us the outline.
Your audience needs to know about this.
So the World Hearth Organization has decided that not only did they do a great job during COVID, they need to make sure that they're given the necessary instruments to when disease X comes along, which sounds like they're actually planning it.
When the next thing comes along, they can do whatever they want to keep us safe.
Safety, uber alice.
Forget the consequences, we're going to keep you safe.
Big Daddy's going to keep you safe.
In this treaty, they are literally going to usurp sovereign authority over all elected officials internationally, should they feel it's necessary.
If the climate gets to be too far, they feel it's necessary.
If the food supply, too many McDonald's hamburgers being served, they might decide to do so.
And if there's a pandemic, it's the opposite of what we need to do.
Look, this conflict between over-centralization and decentralization has been at the centerpiece of how governments are
Evolving since the French Revolution.
The Jacobins wanted to continue what the Monarchs had, which was a massive administrative state, but they wanted it more bureaucratic, and they wanted it run by the people, and the Juridens wanted it decentralized.
I would argue that anytime medicine, anything that adulterates or comes into and interferes with the patient-physician relationship, you are getting a less effective, less efficient, more expensive, worse care.
Anything.
It's just that I'd seen it my entire career.
And so when you think about these larger institutions, at my whole career they were sort of advisory.
They were around publishing things that we would read.
That's their role.
Their role is not to determine what I do for you.
That's what I have to do.
I have to decide what is in your best interest, the person sitting there.
We have become a profession of box checkers on the electronic medical record.
That is the opposite of practicing medicine.
You go to a doctor for the application of his or her judgment, not just their knowledge.
But their judgment, which is making the right call for the complexities of your individual circumstance, your family, your life, your belief system, your biology, making that decision for you.
And then it cannot be done with a bunch of check marks.
Yeah I mean it also I mean in the case of at least the World Health Organization and probably CDC and you know I look at the things that they try to make pandemic and you realize like it's not a medical pandemic they're they're trying to do things so they can exert that control I you know I doesn't matter necessarily how you feel about the topic but yeah I'm a big Second Amendment guy like the gun crisis we must ban the Second Amendment because it's a medical condition and and it feels like this is the framework
To set that up, to eliminate eventually all of our rights because there's some way that someone medically was affected somewhere along the line and therefore we have total control.
The Bill of Rights was there to limit the power of government.
Our government was about limiting power of government.
We fought a revolution about limiting the power of government.
All of a sudden, we've decided that the government knows best?
That is just... I don't know where I live anymore half the time.
You know, back to the opiate crisis.
I went to, you know, I'll go to anybody's White House and help.
When anybody calls on me, I go.
And your dad asked me to a couple of things.
And I went to one symposium in the darkest hours of the opioid crisis.
You probably don't even know this.
And there was a symposium we did all day.
Cabinet-level officials were there.
And it was really an interesting day.
And in the middle of all that, Jeff Sessions came in there and he said, you know, I know what's going on here.
I can take care of this.
And nobody really recognized that this happened.
He goes, in six months, this is gonna be over.
And what he did was, he went in and he arrested a bunch of physicians that were doing the crazy overprescribing, and it stopped.
It stopped that day and people like woke up, my physician, my profession woke up out of their stupor and went, maybe, maybe this isn't the right, maybe we're doing too much.
And that was what turned it around.
That's also what started it, by the way.
What started it was they put doctors in jail and fined them above malpractice for crimes when they did not adequately treat pain.
It was patient abuse.
That's when we froze it.
That's what started this whole thing in the late 80s, early 90s.
And we froze, send everything to pain medicine, they were the evangelists, and off it went.
I never actually knew that, actually, or the history of how it started.
It does not at all surprise me that our laws and regulations also started the problems.
I mean, I think we're the cause of and solution for all of our own problems.
Fascinating.
That's an interesting one.
You know, I guess with the opioid crisis, I'm not saying it's taken care of, obviously it's still a, you know, but it's different.
It's probably on the decline while the fentanyl crisis across the country is just exploding.
Exploding.
Can you talk about the differences, why fentanyl specifically is just, it's so addictive and so destructive, and, you know, the impact it's having across the country.
And again, more importantly, how do we fix that one?
If you say, you know, Sessions with a stroke of a pen could go in there and arrest a couple of guys that were clearly abusing the system for profit, and all of a sudden it's like, oh, well, I guess we'll just stop doing that, you know.
Even if you're perhaps innocently abusing it or, you know, kind of in between.
Maybe you're not a, you know, scarface, but you're getting close.
How do we fix the fentanyl side of that?
Because I can't go a day, and I'm on the trail a lot, right?
So I speak to people, but, you know, the amount of people that come out, you know, I lost my son, my nephew, my brother, my best friend.
You know, just every demographic, every this, totally indiscriminate.
How do we fix that?
And how did it start?
It's hard.
It started, well, heroin's always been there, right?
The heroin sort of number has always been around for the last 50 years.
Well, the reason things started escalating is on the heels of stopping prescribing opiates.
So when my profession stopped being the dealers,
Because most of my peers don't really understand addiction, they took all those patients that were now when they started looking at what was going on and went, Oh my God, these are drug addicts.
They're bad patients.
That is not the case.
What should have happened is the doctor should have called those patients back into the office and said, You know what?
You didn't intend this and I didn't intend this, but it turns out I wasn't aware, but now I see I caused a second problem here.
You have drug addiction, you have opiate addiction and pain.
And there are people that are expert in this.
Let's get you some treatment and get this taken care of.
They did not do that.
I didn't see anybody do that.
Is that because of liability?
They're worried, hey, if I acknowledge that I maybe did something wrong, I'm going to get sued and I'm going to lose my license and my practice.
And I mean, some of it, because again, they got, they were scared to death when doctors started going to prison, right?
There was like, oh my God, what's going to happen here?
And by the way, now you can't get pain treated.
Now they've gotten overly involved with not treating opiate use with opiates, which is insane.
We're so insane with this, and it's mostly because my peers don't understand addiction.
The DEA certainly doesn't understand addiction.
So here we go.
So the people got addicted.
They were cut off from their opiate supply.
Now, when you take an opiate addict and you cut them off,
They will go somewhere to get something that's in the disorder.
They literally have to.
They will either kill themselves with alcohol or find a way to get more opiates.
Well, heroin's always available.
So they went to the streets, they got heroin.
Heroin started escalating rapidly.
Once you're addicted to opiates, you will always go to better, cheaper.
That's just the nature of the disorder.
So fentanyl, which is a good medication for pain in the hospital setting, they started manufacturing it for the street and of course it took over.
The other thing that's happened, which is a secondary phenomenon within the crisis,
is they've started mixing it in with everything and so people that may be sort of experimenting with stuff online are getting exposed to opiates and inadvertently overdosing.
Those people aren't even drug addicts that's a separate category and that is a rapidly increasing category.
But the drug addict category, which is the massive problem, which is everyone on the streets here in Los Angeles, whom are dying at the rate of eight a day in L.A.
County, it's tantamount to negligent manslaughter.
It is homicide.
That's what this city allows.
All these city officials are duplicitous in homicide.
Now, you ask what the solution is.
I know how to run these programs.
I know how to treat these patients.
It is pretty simple, but it's, and by the way, less expensive than what they're doing, but you have to create large centers.
They need to be social model.
You need to have place in for the acute psych.
You'd have for the dual diagnosis and the place for the straight addiction.
You have to staff it up.
Here's the problem.
We don't have those facilities.
We'd have to create them.
And there are people that know how to do that.
It'd be very simple matter to get those people involved.
We need more psychiatrists.
That is a major problem in California, particularly.
We need more psychiatrists.
We don't have enough literally to meet the needs of what I'm talking about.
And then you need to tell the people that are dying on the street, you can't stay there.
You need to come with me.
I've got a lovely, I've got a bed for you.
I've got meals.
I've got people who want to care for you.
Come with me.
That's it.
That's all you got to do.
But you, if you, if you're not allowed, like in California to get near anybody and tell them they need help and try to help them, you're not allowed.
Well, then they're going to die.
It's a fatal illness, and fentanyl addiction is a fatal illness.
It progresses and ends in death.
And so, you're gonna kill all these people.
Well done, State of California.
Well done.
Well, can you talk a little bit more about what addiction actually or exactly is?
You said that even doctors, medical professionals, people who went to med school, your peers, maybe not in addiction, but they don't even understand what it is.
How does someone else understand what it is?
What does it mean to be addicted to something?
What's actually happening inside our brains?
And how do doctors not understand that?
Well, because it takes over all the functions of the brain.
All the priorities decline and one priority emerges, which is use that drug.
That drug, whatever the drug of choice is, becomes synonymous with survival.
And it causes so much strange thinking and strange behavior and strange motivation.
It's hard to use a normal brain to understand what is happening.
So you have to have lots of exposure to how this condition affects people, humans, once they get going with it.
So fundamentally, addiction is a genetic disorder with a biological basis.
The hallmark is progressive use in the face of adverse consequence and denial.
That's pretty much it.
Now what's happening when that happens is we know some of the genetic potential and there's multiple gene influences.
I've treated literally 10,000 drug addicts in my career.
I could always see a family history in the background, even if it was shrouded in sort of euphemisms, you could see it.
It's always alcoholism or something there.
And so it's a genetic disorder.
Now genes are not destiny, right?
Genes have to be activated by something.
Though some people have such profound genetic burdens that just exposure to a substance and off they go.
That's not usually the thing.
Usually it's trauma, dysregulation, emotional issues that get solved with the opiate or with the alcohol.
And that's what gets things going.
But that's a separate issue.
The part that is the second phenomena, which is the addiction, gets triggered in the brain.
And it's a part of the brain called the medial forebrain bundle.
It's literally in the shell of the nucleus accumbens.
So there are cells that fire into a tiny region of our brain that essentially says,
Do that again.
And it forces the brain to do that again as synonymous with survival.
Do that again.
Eat.
Reproduce.
Defend yourself.
Those are the most powerful drives in our system are overtaken by this drive to use the substance.
Yes, you like it.
Yes, you have withdrawal.
Yes, you feel uncomfortable when you come off.
But why do you go back always?
You go back because that motivational priority is always there now.
If you're genetically predisposed to that switch being thrown.
But once the switch is thrown, all these other wonderful systems in our brain, our cognition, our thinking, our social functioning, all serve the false god of do that again, do that drug again.
I mean, are there sort of genetic markers that people can test for to see if they're more susceptible or less susceptible at certain levels?
Just, you know, because some people obviously you see it, I know it through like a family history or something like that.
You see, you know, it went down the line and, you know, you got it, congratulations.
We all know people like that.
But are there other ways that people can find out if they're not sure just so they never test it?
I know there are people that can go out and have two, three glasses of wine and I know that people,
One or two and, you know... Off they go.
Yeah, and it's gone.
So, the answer is yes and no.
There are many, several different genetic markers that have been highly correlated with this condition.
One is a single amino acid substitution of the GABA-A receptor, another is the LL allele of the serotonin transporter.
They have other correlates associated with them, so it's not a great test, and there's other tests as well, there are multiple candidate genes.
They are available on a research basis.
I'm not aware of anything really useful that is available on a commercial basis yet, but you can kind of tell.
I'll tell you what.
So, in most genetic settings, the probability of one child getting the gene, whether one or both parents have it, is about 50%.
There are certain genetic heritages where it's higher.
Cherokee Native American seems to be higher.
Certain, believe it or not, Mormon population seems to be higher.
Certain parts of Han China.
There's different regions of the world where the penetration of the gene is higher.
But generally, it's about 50% per child.
And usually, that person kind of knows it.
And it's interesting.
And the one that doesn't have it, of course, will be the one that's like, I'm never touching alcohol.
I'll never go near it.
That's the only one that's got any control.
And it's the one that doesn't have the gene usually.
But the one that has it usually kind of knows.
And there are other behavioral markers.
Look, the really interesting question
Is why, if this gene causes so much destruction, why is it still in the human genome?
Why isn't it burned out over all these years?
And you know, we developed distilled spirits around the Mediterranean thousands of years ago.
Why didn't it just kill everybody off with this disease?
Well, you have to deduce that it must have some really significant adaptive value.
And the fact is, it does.
If you look at populations that have been extremely distressed, particularly with multiple generations of genocidal assaults, Scotland, North America, certain regions where populations have been isolated, Scotland's sort of the greatest example of this, and then assaulted repeatedly, repeatedly, you find an emergence of this gene.
The conclusion, therefore, is that those were the better survivors in these extreme circumstances when they weren't using.
And if you look at people with disease, they make the best short stops, fighter pilots, extreme athletes.
They are at their best in extreme circumstances.
And I used to amuse myself with, I give lectures to addicts and alcoholics every week, and I would say, you know, hey guys, if a bomb went off in the parking lot, what would you guys do?
About 80% of them go, I'd go out there and see what's going on.
And I'm like, okay, well that's not what I would do.
That is a distinctly different biology.
And you can keep going with that.
They make great, evidently they keep their wits about them, they fight better frontally than those of us without this gene.
And so it has adaptive advantage in extraordinary circumstances.
So the point being, don't be pejorative in relation to almost anything in the mental health sphere.
Things are around, things have adapted for a reason and they have advantages in certain circumstances, disadvantages in others.
Well, talk about that a little bit, because it feels like there is, and I think it's getting better, but there is still sort of perhaps a stigma around being treated for mental illness or addiction or these sorts of things that perhaps prevents people.
I talk with a lot of people, they're like, oh, I didn't know you were in therapy for a long, and they actually have such a better worldview about things that it actually is helpful, yet even I have sort of that old school, like, I'm fine.
I'm good.
Don't worry about it.
Yeah.
I mean, again, when you live in the world where you're inundated with these conditions and things, you start to sort of see it as the spectrum of what the human experience is, right?
And it all is sort of beautiful, really.
I mean, it has liabilities.
People suffer.
It's hard to be in relationships sometimes with people with these conditions.
But it's not, strictly speaking, good or bad.
Now, people in some of these conditions can do bad things because of the condition, but not because the human is bad or the condition is bad, it's just the state they're in.
And there is such thing as evil, right?
Like, right?
Psychopathy, you know, when people don't appreciate that other people have value, meaning, feelings, anything, well, then I'm concerned.
That's a group that, all right, that's what that is.
But everything else is sort of things that happen to human beings, happen to their brains.
And you can, you can be stoic, right?
You can say, I'm okay.
And that's one way of adapting.
And that's a good way of adapting for some people.
And other people, they need something a little bit more.
I generally speaking, and you know, there was a, was it, Abigail Schreier just wrote a book about the over, over-therapizing of particularly young people.
And I agree with her.
I agree.
We do too much of this.
We need to be thinking more about what it means to be a good person and lead a good life.
And we've lost track of that completely.
We don't talk about that.
When we talk about happiness, we don't even know what we're talking about anymore.
It's time we talked about what it means
Look, and of course your grandmother knew what this was.
We've known about it through much of human history.
We just have to re-entrench ourselves in what it means to be good and lead a good life.
And it's usually about service and about the golden rule.
That's about it.
That's where real meaning-making is found.
And if anything is going on right now,
That is affecting our mental health is a deficiency in our ability to make meaning of things.
We need, we are meaning making humans.
That's what we do.
It's what, oh shoot, I'm blanking on the name of the famous psychiatrist who wrote the book about the concentration camps in Germany.
His conclusion was, of course, same, which is people survive because they were able to make meaning of their circumstances.
That's what we must all do.
So, you know, it's interesting that you're, obviously you're in Los Angeles, you've treated many high profile patients, you had a show, Celebrity Rehab.
I'm wondering if you could talk at all about your experiences and how they've shaped your views on medicine and what is ultimately effective treatment?
You know, having sort of seen everything, right?
Dealing with treatment from, you know, the lowest levels to perhaps the highest levels, you know, of,
People in society and their ability to actually deal with it and how that changes.
Well, thanks for the softball.
What's the solution to life?
What is the meaning of life?
So, well, here's one thing I've learned.
That, and I bet you'll appreciate this, is that
That because somebody has a public job or persona or platform, doesn't make them really any different than anybody else.
It's not like there's a handbook, like I have to open up a separate diagnostic manual for celebrities.
They are humans are humans are humans.
They're all the same.
And whether the medical problems they get are the same, the psychiatric problems they get are the same, the interpersonal problems are the same.
There of course are specifics of any given circumstance, whether you have money, don't have money,
Have a public thing, whatever it is that impact on it, but it's really all the same.
We're no different from one another.
And so to idolize people and to canonize people and to say, you know, these people are the
The keepers of the truth are their monks, and they only can be followed.
It's a huge mistake.
We're all flawed.
We're all human.
I mean, the lack of religion right now, you've got to remember that the big injunction in religion was that, you know, we're sinners, we're flawed, we pray for forgiveness, and then be careful about our emotions, particularly be careful about envy and aggression, which
Are completely on the loose right now.
Completely being indulged.
So I worry about all that.
In terms of medicine, again these are broad philosophical ideas I'm trying to present.
I'm really worried about how we have come to believe that
The answer to our misery, whatever it might be, is in a pill or a solution, a pharmacological agent.
That is a huge, huge, huge mistake.
My dad was an old family practitioner.
He raised me, hammered into me the notion that
Only when it's worth the risk you take a medication.
I was never allowed to take an antibiotic until I was 15.
I remember the moment when he pulled it out because my pediatrician wanted and he had some samples and so he's following the direction of the pediatrician and he put them on the table.
All right, here we go.
Who knows what the consequence will be but he wants you to take it so
Take the ampicillin.
All right, whatever.
And I'll just never forget that.
And so, again, this is back to where we started our conversation with the risk-reward considerations.
Risk-reward has just been weirdly abandoned.
People don't understand the risk, or they don't...
Think about risk.
And if you imagine that the answer to all your concerns are in a... Now, not to say that I use lots of pharmacology, but when the risk is worth it, and the reward is worth it, it's not... When I get to that point that I'm having to use medication, it's not a happy day.
It's like everything else has failed.
And back to
Therapy, relationships, you know, what Voltaire said, taking care of your garden, making meaning, being of service, golden rule.
It's all pretty simple.
We have to really re-entrench in those basics, I think, so we're not coming to people like me in real trouble and needing medication.
You know, I gotta ask, because it's sort of a pop culture kind of thing right now, but every person I ever see in the last year that's actually lost some weight, I'm like, so did you start working out?
No, no, no, I got an Ozempic, or Majordo, or what?
What are your thoughts on that?
What's the risk-reward?
With those drugs.
Meaning, obviously you're better off losing some weight.
What are the side effects, if any?
Are there long-term effects that we haven't even figured out?
As literally half the country seems to be on these things.
But I don't know anyone that's done it the old-fashioned way.
Just eating less without sort of, you know, chemical induction of appetite reduction.
Yeah, so I've gotten, I've been a workout fiend my whole life, and it's getting more challenging maintaining my, and you know, and in terms of longevity, my friend Peter Attia said, I was asking him about various things, I had various ideas, and he finally snapped at me, he went, vigorous exercise,
Vigorous exercise.
That is the number one thing in extending life.
And I thought, yeah, that's about right.
And so if you're taking Ozempic as opposed to exercising, you are not enhancing your health.
It may be improving the weight situation a little bit.
But we, back to your point, we don't know the long term consequences.
I'll tell you the consequences I have seen.
Which is gastroparesis, which is a paralysis of the stomach's ability to contract and move food through.
And people hear that and they think, oh, what's that?
Big deal.
It's horrible.
Chronic pain, chronic nausea, chronic feelings of, you know, the appetite problem.
It is a miserable condition.
And people that get it certainly wish they'd never taken the medication.
You know, it's interesting.
I had a couple of patients recently who'd struggled with their weight.
They were type 2 diabetics.
They were perfect candidates.
This is what Dozemic was created for.
And I offered it to both of them.
They refused it.
So people that actually would benefit, because then, think about it, the risk-reward is worth it.
They've tried everything.
It's failed.
And they have diabetes.
And their sugar control is not great.
Weight loss is the numero uno priority.
We could really impact on their life.
As opposed to the, you know, someone out here in Santa Monica that needs to lose five pounds.
We don't know the consequence of that, but it's never nothing.
It's never nothing.
And as opposed to diet and exercise, where not only is there no risk that I can think of other than turning your ankle or getting shoulder problems like I have,
But other than that, it's only benefit.
Only benefit.
And benefit in multiple ways.
Not just weight loss, and feeling good, and reducing insulin resistance, and all those good hormonal balance issues.
It also extends life.
And we have no evidence that Ozempic does that.
So, you know, it's interesting.
Now, since we started getting into the meaning of life, this was going to be sort of a question really about addiction.
But as it relates to the meaning of life and that being sort of a harder to figure out goal for a lot of people, how do you think that technology and social media are affecting different types of addiction?
And again,
You know, perhaps even just the psychological impact.
You know, I see people.
I'm guilty of it myself.
You know, I'm very present in the various platforms.
I have large followings, and it's like... But I also know other people who are, and I see the life that's on display for the world to see, and then I see them behind the scenes.
I'm like, this is...
Two very different people, but it's creating, I would think, again, there's an addiction component, but there's also got to be a very big psychological component where everyone who's following their favorite celebrity or otherwise, you know, thinks their life is perfect, thinks they're beyond reproach, thinks that they're this, that, and the other, and it's so far flawed and true once you actually get to know these people, but I imagine that's got to be causing serious, serious crises, both with addiction and mental health.
A hundred percent.
So on so many levels we don't even know yet.
A friend of mine is a brilliant psychologist and she spends her whole day just working with young women because of the consequences of social media.
She limits her kids to two hours a day and that's it.
But there's so much consequence and so protean, the consequences, that you literally could build a practice of psychology just in one gender, the impact of social media.
And it is addictive.
It's designed to be addictive.
It's going at that same mechanism in the medial forebrain bundle.
I was telling you that people call it a dopamine surge.
I actually don't believe you feel anything when you get a dopamine surge except
A impulse, which can come through multiple different screens in the brain, an impulse to do the behavior again.
And the behavior may feel good, and that's the endorphin system, but the do it again part, I don't think you really feel anything.
But it reminds me to talk about a famous experiment in capuchin monkeys.
And, you know, you want to understand humans.
Look at our closest primate relatives.
We're not that different.
It correlates all the way down.
But these cabbage monkeys, they taught them to do a certain behavior, and they'd give them a reward, which was a cucumber.
And these monkeys were in side-by-side cages.
Cucumber, cucumber, cucumber, cucumber.
And one day, the researcher comes in, gives a cucumber to the first monkey, and then gives a grape to the second monkey.
So the other monkey sees the second monkey getting the grape.
They go through the procedure again.
The researcher hands the first monkey the cucumber.
The monkey throws the cucumber back at the monkey.
Humans, primates, will literally forego a reward that they were perfectly happy with five minutes before if some other like creature gets something more.
So think about that experiment.
That sounds brutal for our future prospects based on everything that I see on a daily basis.
I know, but then think about you're 15 and now think about social media.
All you see are people who look better, having more fun, doing more things.
How do you find happiness when all you see is people with more raining down on you?
It's in our nature to have feelings about that that are problematic.
And we have to, I don't know how we deal with it, frankly, because it's so deep in our psychology.
We have to figure out ways to sort of, again, it's back to what I was saying earlier.
Those things are really not meaningful for the human being, because the human being, what's actually meaningful is important relationships, service, you know, meaning making is much more important than all that stuff.
But that stuff gets in, that gets in, especially when you're an adolescent.
Yeah, no, it's a scary one.
And you're right, I guess we're going to have, you know, in the coming years, we'll figure it out and we'll see the results a lot more, probably for the worst.
But I wanted to ask about, you know, during COVID, we saw this sort of emergence of a new genre of like, you know, so-called medical experts.
You know, I saw this a lot.
It was like, you know, the telepsychologist, not really a psychologist, but, you know, I remember with my dad, he's like, well, he picked up a glass with two hands, therefore he's in the later stages of dementia and Alzheimer's combined, or like,
One time I guess he was speaking I think it was like the West Point graduation or something and it was raining and he's like he's walking down a ramp in like you know business shoes that not exactly you know treads and stuff like that and like he held on to the railing and it was like he's it's all over.
They spend their time basically demonizing anyone who disagrees with them.
You've seen, whether it's one of them like Dr. Peter Hotez, he's out there claiming now that there's a far-right conspiracy to discredit organizations like the FDA to promote alternative medicines like ivermectin.
Again, whatever you feel, but what do you make of this?
It seems like an affront on anything that would be a natural check and balance
By people who don't seem all that qualified to actually make that distinction, but because they're on TV, they're given sort of that expert status, right?
Right.
And this was a concern throughout COVID.
And of course, it was all siloed and you have to, you sort of had to be repeating a party narrative, which was really wild to watch.
We're good.
No, that's not my intent.
They disenfranchise somebody like me.
It's just out of our business.
Don't overreach in terms of what your job is.
And then I'm very concerned about the cozy relationship with the regulators, that people that are in the FDA then go work for pharma.
Look, I can't even allow a drug company into my office to give me a patent.
Yeah, it's like when the generals sit on the board of Raytheon, it's like, of course we're going to have endless wars!
They're only getting the board seat if you keep making missiles!
By the way, full disclosure, I took a cup of coffee from a drug company yesterday because it was a medicine I was prescribing for a patient and I wanted to get it for free for the patient.
But that's the only reason I would talk to a drug company.
Shoot.
So here's the biggest problem with all the experts on TV.
And I actually had the opportunity to interview, do you remember the Yale professor of psychiatry who was saying that your father had some sort of major, major... Yeah.
I interviewed her and I said, look, I want to describe two cases to you.
And I described the first case, I said,
Well, this guy had suicidal depressions.
In fact, they were so bad that his friends would have to stand vigil over him and make sure no sharp objects were around him.
He became obsessed that he had syphilis.
He was very obsessional.
He actually took mercury all the way until he went into office, and that seemed to make his depression worse.
Should that guy be a president of the United States?
And I described how he was so depressed he was dragging his son down the street one day.
The son spilled out of the wagon and he still walked another mile without realizing that the son was out of the wagon.
He was in such a fugue state.
And she goes, well that guy, no way should he be president.
Okay, Abraham Lincoln.
Abraham Lincoln.
So so the point is you you when you use these clinical only humans are going to be in office and humans have liabilities.
Humans have traits.
I don't know what traits are right for a given office or a given circumstance of history.
I do know a fighter pilot should be a narcissist with alcoholism.
That's who I want
Flying my planes, but I don't know who should be the chairman of the house.
I don't know what the qualities are.
That's the wisdom of the crowd.
That's why we have elections.
Hopefully the crowd picks the best person for the best circumstance.
And sometimes they don't.
And that's, there's no way, there's no way to, what are we going to give, psych testing to everybody and decide what the scale should be of a given individual for a given office?
That's insane.
That's not how humans work.
When we're talking about impact, you know, having on the future of doctors and medical schools.
If you remember back in, I guess it was 2022, you know, pretty big, you know, medical university.
There was a medical student that posted on social media that she intentionally botched a patient's blood draw because he laughed at her pronouns pins.
Like,
Are politics infecting doctors' relationships with patients now?
I've heard it.
Same thing, you know, with nurses.
It's like, you could see, you know, this person, you know, reasonably famous person, a conservative, it was a liberal nurse, and you could see, like, they weren't
You know, honoring their, you know, the Hippocratic Oath, so to speak.
You know, they were clearly not functioning that way.
What do you see happening on with that?
I mean, imagine, I can't even imagine being, as a human, doing that to someone, but I guess it's happening.
It is happening, and unfortunately, politics has infected everything.
It's just so bizarre that we live in that world right now, and it's crept into areas where it has no business, and this is definitely one of those areas.
I remember once I was a resident and I was called down to the ER to see a case and the, I guess it was the DEA, brought in these three guys.
They'd just been in a gun battle and had killed several agents.
They were horrific, violent drug dealers with an unbelievable record behind them.
And I thought to myself, I don't, I do not want to take care.
I hope, I kind of hope this didn't go well for that, these creatures that were down there.
But I put all that aside and did my job on behalf of the human being that I was asked to help.
I didn't allow my feelings, which were
You know, who knows how right I was or not about how horrible this person was or what their life, whatever.
My job was to put it all aside and take care of the human being in front of me, which I did.
And that phenomenon of putting it all aside,
Whatever your personal biases are, how tired you are, how sick you are, how miserable you are, that's why we worked in training those long hours.
That's why we were told, you know, three days, you know, in the hospital, and now I'm getting up again, I haven't slept in a couple days, and put it aside and make a good decision for that patient.
That isn't happening so much.
That training isn't even happening so much.
So without that training of doing that, I don't know how we bring it back except to, you know, stop making the profession of medicine something you punch in and punch out of and pass along to somebody else at five o'clock.
That's where the problem is getting
Getting, uh, percolating.
That's where it's happening.
It's right there.
It's not just that politics is, is, is getting into everything.
It is.
Yeah.
But what's happening as a result, because the training is not quite as rigorous as I, you know, look, when I was in training too, there were old 65 year old doctors like myself going, when men were men, you know, when we went back in our day.
So I'm that guy, but I really do feel that it's strongly that we need to get much as it's such a sacred profession that we've lost.
We've lost track of the importance and the sacrality of it.
We really have.
And we see that a lot, right?
I mean, you see some of the DEI stuff coming out of medical schools and they're like,
Well, you know, we had to cut down residency requirements because, you know, it was weeding out, you know, too many, you know, people of whatever demographic it was that I'm like, well, maybe should they have been there in the first place?
And that, that to me is really scary.
The priority is the patient.
That's it.
And, and look, there, there are, I'm not saying there weren't things that I, I like the fact that we're diversifying more amongst physicians.
It's a good thing.
But to put that as a priority over the patient, or does it somehow leak into that?
Oh, now we got a problem.
Now we got a problem.
So I guess lastly, when you host Ask Dr. Drew, what are the top issues and concerns viewers ask about?
And are there some that are sort of actually surprises?
Things that you wouldn't think would be such a big deal, but that keep on coming up regularly that people got to be aware of?
Well, the thing, it's so interesting that that show, it's become my pride and joy right now.
My wife produces it, and it's something I really enjoy doing every day.
We do it mostly Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at three o'clock.
That's sort of our slot.
And it started as me just essentially doing a, almost like a Facebook Live kind of thing.
I think that actually may have been where we started it.
Just trying to, in the darkest hours of COVID, I felt like I was literally the French underground.
I really, I kept saying, this feels like what the French underground must have felt like because I was trying to share information that would get me cancelled if it were in the general media.
And I was sort of struggling out loud with what's going on?
What can we trust?
What's happening here?
Why are people so hysterical?
Why is this happening?
There's a big thought bubble over my head, like, what's happening here?
I couldn't understand it.
And then one of my sort of strategies became
You know, these people that are being silenced, that are being cancelled, almost without exception, are decorated professionals, highly published, great teachers.
These are the people we should be listening to.
Why are they being cancelled?
And I think it's because that made them more threatening, that they really had to make sure they cancelled those people.
So I made it my business to interview any and all of them that had been cancelled.
And I'll tell you what, I learned something from every, I didn't agree with everything everybody said, some of them were over their skis on certain things, but to me, I learned something from every single one of them.
It's interesting, I was interviewing Paul Alexander two years ago, and he said, you know, the six feet thing, I was there when they decided that, it was out of thin air.
And I thought, well, that's what I, I don't know where that, that's what I kept saying this, there's no such thing as... I don't understand, yeah, the molecules just magically stop at the wall.
I knew it was bullshit.
Where did that come from?
I just, it was just, I, I, because viruses go 30 to 60 feet, you know, when they're aerosolized and, and I, and masks, I knew didn't work.
And so each of these guys gave me something that I would thought, okay, well, there we go.
There it is.
So, so letting, letting the discourse happen, showing people that have, um, talking to people that have unpopular opinions.
And then I got to the point where I interviewed RFK Jr.
And at the end of that, he said to me, Hey, you're so courageous for talking to me.
And I thought,
Courageous for talking to another professional?
Where do I live?
I don't recognize this country anymore if it takes courage to talk to Don or if it talks to Robert.
Courage!
That's insane!
I need to just keep doing it and if something is sort of unpopular or stressful or
Dangerous, that's sort of where I'm going now.
It's kind of a weird position to be in.
It's definitely not consistent with my psychology, but it is consistent with my belief system right now.
We have to stand up.
We have to speak out.
We have to talk to people that have been silenced.
We have to not put up with the nonsense.
Again, my opinions are very moderate, and I'm always changing them.
And it's okay.
And because of that, I have to go into situations that somebody may not like, or people, I interview somebody that somebody may not like.
It's the way it goes.
We're going to keep doing it.
Well, no, I think that's important.
It's sort of like the opposite of what you got out of, like, a Fauci, where it's like, he's probably never the best doctor, but he was the best bureaucrat, and he was good at anyone who got in his way or prevented—you know, he'd figure out how to snake him.
It seems like he's been wrong for 35 years about literally everything, but it doesn't matter because he played that game better, and we don't make the distinction between the bureaucrats and the doctors.
You're just like, well, he's got a high position of power.
I think we do now.
Maybe that's one of the good things we've learned from COVID.
At the time, what do you know?
But in hindsight, looking back, you're like, wait a minute, this is crazy.
Bureaucracy is the enemy.
Bureaucrats are just doing what bureaucrats do.
Bureaucracy is really the problem.
And to the extent that bureaucracy can't make good risk-reward decisions, it can't be nuanced, it can't change direction, stay out of our business.
Let us do our job and stay out of it.
You know, Fauci is an interesting story.
He was somebody I admired very, very, very much, essentially all of my career, because I was very involved in the AIDS pandemic, very involved in that.
I was treating lots of AIDS.
It was a dark period of history.
And what people don't appreciate, look, I was there when we opened the AZT boxes, and finally we had something we could do for these young men other than tell them they were going to die.
As a student and a resident, I was just constantly telling men they were going to die in six months.
That's all we did.
Now I had something that maybe could extend their life by three months or six months, and maybe in that interval we can come up with another antiviral that extended another three months.
And that's what happened.
And so, however it got there, I don't really have an opinion about those shenanigans, but it was something we could do for these young men.
It was in the darkest hours of a pandemic.
Don't forget, you know, the case fatality rate, their infection fatality rate for COVID is 0.2.
0.02, essentially.
Case fatality rate for AIDS was 100%.
100%.
A very different situation.
Yeah.
Well, no.
That's incredible.
I mean, wow.
We could do a whole other show probably on that, unpackaging all of that.
But Dr. Drew, thank you so much for being here.
Guys, check out his show right here on Rumble as well.
You said what?
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday at 3 o'clock?
3 o'clock Pacific.
Just subscribe or go to drdrew.tv.
We'll send you a blast out, and we'd love to see your people there.
It'd be fun.
And we also, we have chats going the whole time.
I'm going to start soon a post-show, sort of a Talking Dead for Walking Dead.
A post-show on Locals where we'll discuss what the guest said and that kind of thing.
I still do... I'm very, very worried about free speech.
I'm very, very worried.
I'm an absolutist.
And so I want an environment where people can speak their mind.
That's really what I'm trying to do on Rumble.
It's what I want to do in this post-show.
It's like, just everybody, let's talk.
Let's speak our minds.
Yeah, it really actually seems like there's a demand for that.
Sometimes, you know, if I'm, you know, going crazy, like, I'll just do the, my show is just literally like an, ask me anything.
And, you know, I've functioned at a pretty high level in a lot of places and it's just the questions and you're watching the viewership and like people are actually really into that.
So I think there is both a general lack of discourse and, you know, a desire for just, you know, that sort of free speech, you know, absolutism.
So it's, it's really important.
Isn't it weird that we live in a time where people... Shocking!
It's hard to believe we're contemplating, like, we don't exactly have that, uh, sort of America in 2021, but there's a lot, you know, there's a lot that's missing.
I could go on for hours on this one, that would be my normal show, uh, probably a lot more political about many of those things, but, you know, again, I think people are starting to see it.
Well, I hope so, because it is so important.
I've fallen into a rabbit hole studying the French Revolution and early 20th century Russia, and the correlations are so profound.
And the protections we have, the brilliance of our system, the states, this is what's protecting us.
And right in the center of it is our ability to say, to talk, to speak to each other, to share ideas.
And Alexis de Tocqueville in the 1820s came out here and analyzed our system.
Democracy in America was his famous document, his famous book.
And he said, you know, you have the most extreme privilege of free speech in the law, but you actually can't practice it because of what he called the public square.
And that's what's happening right now.
We crush each other in the public square.
And we got to not do that.
We got to let the speech happen.
I'm with you, man.
Well, Dr. Drew, thank you so much, guys.
Check out Ask Dr. Drew, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 3 o'clock Pacific.
You know, you gotta maybe pre-record one of them so you don't interrupt my show on Thursdays, but we'll make it happen.
We put them up as a podcast and you can get them on YouTube.
It's all out there to see if you want to download them or look at them.
Thank you very much, sir.
Good having you on.
You bet.
Thank you, sir.
Dr. Drew, thank you so much.
Guys, that was awesome.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
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