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Feb. 19, 2024 - David Icke
54:10
Putting The World To Rights - David Icke & Tom Cowan
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Okay, thanks everybody.
Welcome to another edition of Conversations with Dr. Cowan and Friends.
David Icke has been here before.
I think most of you know him.
He's been part of our True Healing Conference.
I would say that we've all read David Icke's And I probably first read you 35 years ago, if you were even writing back then.
I think it's about right.
Something like that.
And it's always been fascinating.
And I remember My wife used to say she could always tell when I was reading your books because I was a little more sarcastic than usual when I was reading your books.
So that's the effect that it had on me.
Not that I'm not sarcastic generally, but a little bit more.
And so we're just here to have a conversation.
David just told me that he's been really through a kind of evolution in thinking in the last few years, but maybe last more than that.
So maybe just start us off by, you know, where have you come?
Give us this sort of This is where I was, this is where I've come to, and because we're going to try to figure out here something about where we're going as a, I'm not sure if even species is the right word, men and women living on this place called Earth.
So, what do you got with that, David?
Well, I've always worked, Tom, on a principle that was articulated by Socrates in ancient Greece, or it's a tribute to him anyway.
And that is, wisdom is knowing how little we know.
The idea that to know is to know you know nothing.
And I think to To look at the system in general, whether it's religion, whether it's mainstream science or whatever, mainstream medicine, it's all based on we know.
And the one thing you can say for sure, without fear of contradiction, is whatever we think we know at any point, there's always more to know.
And when you see the ridiculously narrow band of frequency that we're interacting with, that we call the human world, that is massively compounded.
You know, the idea that there's not infinitely more to know than we know is ridiculous.
So I've been on this journey, whatever you want to call it, where I've been through different phases But always knowing that whatever phase I'm in, there's always more to know.
So in the early 1990s, and then on through the 1990s, it was the fact that the people that appear to be running the world are not running it.
They're here today, gone tomorrow people, but there's a force behind it, which is pushing an agenda across the generations to move the world to more and more centralization of power and more and more dystopia until in the end it's a global dystopia based on a world government that's not even elected, a technocratic world government of bureaucrats and technocrats and engineers and medical experts.
The World Economic Forum is a A promoter of this now and the World Health Organization is a classic example of this centralized control of what we call medicine.
And so I wrote about that and I'm still writing about that.
But the question was, look, this has gone on not for five years and not for 50 years.
So there has to be a coordinating force.
That is orchestrating this.
I mean, people are born, they play their part in pushing it on.
Currently it's people like Schwab and Gates, etc.
And then they die and other people take it on and then move on.
So there has to be a coordinating force.
That was what I was looking at.
And around 1996, Something that's happened in my life a heck of a lot, well all the time really, is a new subject will enter my life and suddenly information about that subject's flying at me in all directions.
And in this period of 1996 when I was on a Well, I wouldn't call it a speaking tour, because no one came.
Of America.
A talking tour.
Yeah, a talking to myself tour, or a talking to empty chairs tour.
A talking to nobody tour.
I got on very well with empty chairs.
some of them I wish I put out and put back myself and then talk to them and then whatever. So,
yeah, so I started meeting people in a very synchronistic way.
I was going to different cities every day to talk to nobody.
And the information that was coming was that actually there's a non-human force behind the human network that I call the global cult, this global network of secret societies that's behind all this pushing the direction of the world to more and more dystopia.
And so I then moved into that area and I encompassed that with the here and now stuff.
And it went on, I got more and more information about that.
And when you actually look today, this is one of the interesting things, is that when I First came out with all that stuff.
Of course, it was enormously ridiculed and, you know, some of it still is.
But as people start to see, particularly since the COVID hoax, that actually what we're looking at is a very anti-human agenda, targeting all the areas that humans need to survive, even now fiddling with the atmosphere as well.
And more and more people have started to go, well, actually, it doesn't sound so crazy now.
And so the next thing was, okay, so this non-human force, which is operating outside of the visual frequency band, how do they do it?
And just to interrupt for a minute, at this point, you wouldn't have been able to characterize What this non-human force was, or for instance, their intentions, or their origins, or their particulars, I don't think matters.
But I went into all that.
I researched that very deeply.
I mean, one of the things that was a common theme was that this force, at least at one level, took a very reptilian form and also involved this other classic ET group called the Greys.
But in the end, the more that I understood it, and indeed, you don't really have to go into it too deeply to realize that You can talk about form like you talk about the human form, or you can talk about the reptilian form, or the grey form, or whatever.
But actually, in the end, what's dictating the behavior of whatever form it is, it's consciousness.
So in the end, this controlling force is a form of consciousness.
Right.
And it's so it's a different consciousness than the sort of normal, you know, man or woman consciousness.
It's Yeah, it's a psychopathic consciousness that wishes to control and wishes to impose its, its will.
It's, it's, you know, if you look back at Ancient cultures and how they describe this force because they all do.
I mean, it's a very interesting thing is that you you see this common theme.
They give it different names and what have you, but actually they're describing the same thing.
And one of the things, one of the tags that they give this consciousness is foolish and stupid because, you know, it's desire to control and impose.
Anyone who does that for me is, you know, mentally disturbed.
But what it's incredibly Skilled at, and its expressions inform, whether it's the global cult or some non-human entity, that makes them very good at manipulating perception.
Not least because they know how perception works, and not least because they're running a system in which control of perception is the reason for its very existence.
So, what you realize is You know, we're sitting in a, or I'm sitting in a reality now.
And if people, most people still, unfortunately, they'll look through their eyes and you'll say, can you see everything in the space you're looking at?
And they'll say, oh, of course you can, mate, of course you can.
But you can't.
You're seeing a tiny fraction of what exists in the space you're looking at, only a frequency band.
And in the same space, all these other frequency bands exist.
And those that are very close to this one, it's exactly the same principle as the old analog radio and television stations, where if you had a radio station that was really close on the dial to the one you were on, you might get interference.
And this dimension which in esoteric terms they call the astral which is very very close well ultimately very close to this one but it does go out in frequency well beyond this one but there is a point where it's very very close um this is the the the
This is the dimension in which these entities operate, the lower levels of it, the lower frequency levels of it.
And these are the ancient gods.
You know, it's interesting when you look around the world and you see the pantheons of gods, they all had them, they're everywhere.
The Greek pantheon and all these, the ancient pantheon, all of them.
were perceived to be in the invisible, in the unseen, which is exactly where they are.
And the other thing that I started to realize from the 1990s when I was investigating this global cult, secret society network, And the very famous names that were in it is that they were very much connected to paedophilia.
Yes, but they're very, very certainly the major ones and a lot of the less major ones were big time into human sacrifice Satanism.
So then you go, hold on a minute.
That's what the ancients were involved in.
They were doing human sacrifices to the gods, as they perceived them.
And these rich and famous people are doing the same now.
What the frickin' hell's going on?
And it doesn't take long before you realize, actually, they're the same gods all along, that they are focusing upon and giving sacrificial offerings to.
In other words, this project, what you're coming to is that, A, it's been going on for a long time, and it's got certain themes, and even the gods were personified or given, like, this is the god of rage or fury or that, so they were given attributes of these, which were more like principles, or what you call frequencies.
But they were sort of attributes of different, yeah, entities, dimensions, whatever, something like that.
Yeah, but they worship them as the gods, and these rich and famous Satanists today in the global cult still do, because this reality via this global cult is being orchestrated from this other dimension of reality.
And so, you know, just before I move on to where it went next, another question I had was, hold on a minute.
They were sacrificing, openly at the time, people to the gods as an offering.
They're doing the same now, and I've talked to many, many people who've been involved in standing Richard around the world, most of them against their will, some who've now seen the light, and they describe the same things, including the people that were there.
What the hell do the gods get out of this thing?
Right?
It's an offering to the gods.
What do they get out of you sacrificing a human?
And then you start to realize what the basis of this whole thing is, which is these entities operating in this astral dimension, they are trawling human low vibrational energy.
And there was a guy called Robert Monroe who popularized out-of-body experiences, what have you.
And he was part of a CIA program with other people who had this gift of projecting their consciousness into this astral dimension.
It's called Gateway.
Write about it in the books.
And this has come from one of the military people involved in it.
They saw so many reptilian entities in this astral dimension that they gave them the name in the Gateway Project of the Alligators.
And what the basis of the whole thing was, is that these entities of feeding off low vibrational human emotion.
Robert Monroe gave this gave the energy a name he called it Loosh. Yeah, and that's a lot like what
the Gnostics that said about the world too. Absolutely right. And you see, this is the thing, Tom.
There was like these Archon beings that are this different name for this. And
And literally their food, you might even use that word, was this vibrational fear and hatred and rage.
Absolutely.
Absolutely right.
And that's an interesting thing, Tom, you see, because One of the things I'm looking for, and I've looked for all along, is patterns.
And patterns not of disagreement, but patterns of agreement.
Across different cultures, across different time zones.
You know, when a Zulu shaman is telling you certain things about Zulu legend and Zulu accounts, and some military industrial intelligence whistleblower in America is telling you exactly the bloody same that's going on now.
Then, you know, and then you, as you rightly say, you've got the Gnostics, you've got, I mean, you know, you look at your religions as well.
So, you've got in Christianity, they have Satan or the devil.
And I say that's the overall consciousness that's behind it.
But they then have demons that serve the devil, Satan.
In Islam, and these are operating in the unseen, according to Christianity.
Then you have Islam, which is supposed to be different from Christianity,
but there's so many things that are the same.
And one of them is the jinn, where they talk about a being called Shaitan,
ridiculously close to Satan, and, or Iblis,
that again is this overall consciousness that's behind this.
And it's served by the jinn that manipulate from the unseen.
And then you go to the Gnostics and they have Yoldebeoth,
also known as the Demiurge.
That's their overall consciousness being that is behind it and served by what they call Archons,
which is Greek for rulers, very appropriately.
And they are feeding off low vibrational human emotion.
So this is the point, and it kind of explains a lot about the world, is they have no interest In humans being in states of joy and happiness and contentment and satisfaction and love, they want them in states of fear and anxiety and depression and hatred and resentment and regret and all these things.
Because for some bizarre reason that actually is their food, their fuel.
It's like a matter of survival almost.
Yes, well, that's right.
And it's because if you... the thing is that every time we think or feel emotion, we're generating a frequency that relates to the nature of the frequency of the type of emotion, the type of thought.
So, you know, joy and happiness are very high light frequencies.
That's why people say, oh, I feel so light today.
And then other times they go, oh, God, I feel so heavy.
It's because it's a low slope frequency and it's making their energy feel more dense and they feel like heavy.
And we talked about it a few minutes ago.
The mentality of these, quote, gods, idiots, Is such this desire for control, this desire for imposition, that they and themselves are operating in a very low vibrational state.
And therefore, if they're going to absorb energy, it's got to be within a frequency band that they can absorb.
So they have an interest in conflict and humans being in low vibrational states of emotion, particularly.
And so the next question Um, of course, was, well, so how do they pull it off, you know?
And what happened is, um, just after the turn of the millennium, and this has happened to me many, many times, I had this overwhelming feeling that this is a simulation, uh, which the Gnostics actually caught.
The Gnostics, they were, um, Some amazing texts found in an earthen jar in 1945 in a place called Nag Hammadi, about 75, 80 miles north of Luxor in Egypt.
And they were Gnostic texts.
It's estimated they were put in that jar maybe about 400 AD, which kind of fits because that's when the Gnostics were being targeted at the Great Library of Alexandria, which they used to run by the Roman Church.
And these texts, I've got two thick books of translations up there, describe this reality as a bad copy.
Like it's a bad copy of prime reality.
It's like a digital copy, we would call it.
And we would also call it today, in translating their language into ours, that it's a virtual reality illusion.
And so, and the other thing I got just after the turn of the millennium was that the limit at this level, the astral is also part of it, but at this level is the speed of light, which of course is not the fastest speed.
I mean, particles kind of communicate instantly, you know, but I'm saying that's happening outside of this reality.
It's actually happening in the astral reality.
But so we, We then went on, and at the time I looked around, you know, when you get these things, you think, well, who else is saying it then?
Is anyone else saying it?
Yeah.
I found a guy called Bostrom, Nick Bostrom at Oxford University.
And he was the only one in public eye who was saying, well, it looks like we, you know, very well could live in a simulation, a simulated reality.
And he saw it in a different way than I did, but the basic themes were the same.
And so I just carried on.
And then, of course, the Matrix movies were around.
So that was a visual, a very visual portrayal of what I was talking about, actually, and the way I was seeing it.
And interestingly, if you look symbolically in the Matrix movies, they didn't physically go in with their body.
into The Matrix.
They went in with their mind.
They projected their mind into it through this probe at the back of the neck that was used in the film.
And I say this is a dream.
That's why my lady's book is called The Dream.
And it's an induced dream which I can come to.
So then the years passed and Of course, most of what I was saying about the simulation was kind of dismissed.
Oh yeah, you know, reptilian man's talking about simulation now.
But suddenly things started to change and some mainstream scientists started to come out, and then more, and there are more now.
And say what actually does look like we could be in a simulation.
And the interesting thing about that is that if you go down that route, a lot of the things that seem unexplainable become suddenly explainable.
So you had a guy called Rich Terrell who worked in the computer... Can you, before that, can you give a sort of like a definition of what you mean by a simulation?
Okay, well, I can do that very simply, because one of the things that has become so blatant to me is that modern technology, AI, computerization, Wi-Fi, etc., is mimicking The simulation.
I don't think that's an accident.
I think they're putting another layer on it, another layer of illusion on it.
But so if you look at what I'm saying about the simulation, I'm not saying it's a construct.
I'm not saying this is a physical construct simulation.
It's an information source.
It's an information field, just like Wi-Fi.
So what would happen if there was Wi-Fi in this room?
And I said to someone who didn't know about computers or Wi-Fi or anything, and I said, look, there's a whole reality in this room that you can tap into anywhere you've got a computer.
And a whole global reality you can put on the screen.
And, of course, what they'd say is, that's ridiculous.
Where is it?
I can't see it.
Well, you can hardly see anything, mate.
That's the whole point, which people keep forgetting.
But you get a computer and you lock into this field.
Now, this Wi-Fi field is a radiation field.
It's a radiation field of information.
It's a wave field of information.
But if you lock a computer into it, The computer decodes that information into what we see on the screen.
Yeah.
And if you said to people, tell me about the Internet, they'd say, well, yeah, well, it's videos and it's pictures and it's graphics and text on the screen.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
But only on the screen.
That's the only place that reality exists in that form.
Everywhere else it's a Wi-Fi field or electronic circuits of various kinds.
And then I, you know, over the years I've been looking at mainstream science in its view of, although it doesn't widely discuss this very much compared with what it should, how we create reality, how we decode reality.
And you find out I've been calling the body since the 1990s a biological computer, because it's taking the five senses are taking wayfield information, like Wi Fi, they're turning it into electrical information.
Communicating is the brain and the brain is then constructing that into a sense of reality.
It is a digital holographic reality.
This guy, Rich Terrell at NASA, about 2017 I think it was, 2016-2017, he went public It was in all the newspapers at the time, saying that he felt that this was a simulation and it was a holographic simulation, which I say it is.
And that, of course, he said, if it's a simulation, then it's not natural.
It must have been made by some intelligence, which starts to lock into this other stuff I've been talking about.
And suddenly more and more people are talking about this just across the water from where I live.
I live in a little island just off the south coast of England in Portsmouth.
A physics professor has just been in all the papers in this country and I've got his book here.
It's amazingly thin, by the way.
We've gone into it that deeply.
But he was in all the papers for saying that he'd concluded we live in a simulation.
And there's many others that have done the same.
So let me stop you for a minute.
So this simulation that we see in our computers, the Wi-Fi simulation, we understand that's a simulation, meaning it doesn't live It's tricky, the words here.
It doesn't live in reality, it lives in a certain frequency, which is essentially imperceptible by us, unless we use a certain device that, what you call, locks into it so that it decodes it.
Yeah, yeah, and what's interesting is the way, like I said earlier, that so many apparent mysteries start to make
sense.
But before I get into that, just the other thing that I need to mention is that in April 2021, there was an article in Scientific American by an academic.
And the headline was, we live in a simulation and the limit of the simulation is speed of light.
Which is what I got just after the turn of the millennium.
And he was saying that he felt the speed of light was the processing speed, the limit of the processing speed of the simulation.
And the other thing that I've been saying since, well, you know, just after the millennium, like I say, is that the laws of physics are actually the encoded rules of the simulation.
So if you are, and he kind of said this too, if you are making a virtual reality computer game, then the creator encodes into the game the limits and how the game is played.
I say that's what the laws of physics are.
So when people have near-death experiences, the common theme of all of them is that once they leave the body, they are entering a reality with a very different physics, where things can happen which can't happen here.
And so why?
Well, what I'm saying is that the body is a biological computer and it's decoding this reality.
And so when it ceases to function, what we call death, Your focus of attention, which is focused in this frequency band through the body, ceases to be so because the body's not decoding it anymore.
And so you find yourself in a different reality.
And so what I'm saying is what we call death is actually just a transfer of attention.
And so if you apply what I've just said to virtual reality games that we have today, like I say, everywhere you look, even in holographics, whatever, you're seeing the mimicking of what I'm describing technologically in human reality.
So if you go on the internet, if anyone goes on the internet and they put in words that take them to compilations of people with headsets on, And it's incredible that they're in a room, often empty, or just one of their mates there or their wife or whatever.
They put this headset on and it completely and utterly takes over their sense of reality.
They're thrashing about, they're screaming, they're falling over.
And so then I apply it, you know, in the dream to this.
You come out of the womb and you've got a headset on.
But it's not a headset you can take off.
I mean, you know, if you get in trouble or, you know, fear with a computer game, you take the headset off.
It's just a game.
But you can't take this one off short of dying.
That's the point I'm making.
And so you come out of the womb with a headset on.
And your parents have got headsets on.
And everyone around you, everyone you see has got headsets on.
They're all being fed the same information, same reality.
You go to school, your mates have got headsets on, teachers have got headsets on.
You go to college, university, professors and academics have got headsets on.
You turn on the news, the newsreader's got a headset on.
Politicians have got headsets on, scientists have got headsets on, doctors have got headsets on.
And they're all decoding this same collective reality, thinking it's real.
When the only place it exists, what I'm saying anyway, the only place it exists in the form that we're experiencing it is in here, when it's decoded.
So here's the question then, is there a reality or a frequency or a experience underneath this headset reality that you're talking about which is accessible?
Well, I call that prime reality.
And you know, for me, if you look at the Gnostic writings, what's happened is that as a section, if you like, of prime reality, which is which is kind of naturally occurred in the way that it does there with consciousness and all the rest of it, has been a digital copy has been taken of it.
And it's been overlaid.
And the body has been created to lock into that overlaid Wi-Fi.
So there is a prime reality out there.
And that's what the Gnostics, for instance, were searching for.
Yeah, I say there is.
And I say what the whole idea of this simulation is to entrap perception.
So that we're living a fake reality, believing it's real.
Yeah.
Manipulating that reality to create emotional and mental upheaval, turmoil, fear, etc.
That's generating this loose.
This is like a loose farm.
So what would it feel like, look like, be like?
What would you see in this primary reality?
Well, I think that's a realm.
I think it's a multi-dimensional realm because I think beyond this...
Fake reality is infinite reality with infinite possibility and infinite potential.
I mean, I don't think there's any limit to it.
It's basically what you can imagine you can create.
And I think that's what happens out there.
It's much more what you imagine you create.
There's no need for food, if you like, and there's no need for all the things that the physical world has been set up to need.
I mean, if you look at Do you think, hang on, do you think that if you could access, let me say it like this, is it possible that if one could live in or access or be familiar with or work with this primary reality that you're talking about, you could actually live in this
This situation we call Earth and build like amazing cathedrals and build a harmonious Society where there was energy for everybody and everybody got along and all that.
That may have actually been the case.
I think it still is.
I think that reality exists in the same space that I'm sitting in now.
It's just nowhere near this frequency.
And it's kind of interesting, you know.
It's here, but we don't perceive it.
We don't perceive it because we're in a very low vibrational reality.
It's interesting.
I've studied this from everybody angle and I'm just writing a third book in the trilogy now and going deeper.
There are certain people, not many, but certain people that say they remember Their conscious incarnation at the start of their life and just before.
And what's interesting is first of all, the sequence of incarnation that they describe is very technological.
You know, it's very technological.
It's not like spiritual.
Oh, I'm going into God.
No, it's very technological.
What do you mean by that?
Well, it's very, very much Run by technicians and run by artificial intelligence, but an artificial intelligence way beyond what we see in the public arena in the human world.
But that AI, that astral AI, as I call it, is starting to be brought in.
This is where all this AI is coming from.
So, you know, you've got these technological advancements that are moving so fast and there's no break.
There's no break where they're sitting around a table, strumming their fingers, saying, well, we've got to wait for some geek in a garage in Silicon Valley to invent the next level.
It's there.
And it's getting faster.
Why?
Because it's already there.
They're just playing it out in a sequence with cover stories of how it was discovered by this and that.
Play it out.
It's being played out in a sequence.
And the more it's played out, the more controlling it becomes.
This is why AI is taking the bloody world over.
And so they describe technicians.
I mean, what one describes, and you know, you could say, oh, well, they're just, you know, fake memories.
Well, I was, and I'm very skeptical, but I was convinced they are actually describing something because the common themes are all there.
And they describe that there's even an incarnation machine That helps you prepare for it.
And the reason for that, and this is the point that I'm leading to, what they're describing in their memories of incarnation is the fantastic difference in frequency and density between where they are incarnating from, which is the astral, And this reality, it's one of them, he says, you just keep going down and down and down and down.
And it's very intimidating.
Down meaning denser.
Denser, denser, denser, denser.
So this is a really, really dense reality, in both senses in one.
And so it's a real challenge.
And because it's so dense, And so challenging because of its density and what's going on.
That's where the loosh comes from.
And you know, when 9-11 happened, there were sensors all around the world picking up changes in the electromagnetic field.
And when the world began to Realize that 9-11 had happened because it went out very fast all over the world.
There was this massive spike in the field and that was the emotional response to what they were seeing of what they were understanding that happened.
Now imagine that you're feeding off that all the time.
I mean, it's a massive Frequency electromagnetic generation that you're talking about, and that's what they're absorbing.
And, you know, there's a guy at MIT called Max Tegmark, who's a mathematician physicist.
And he points out that the physics of computer games mirrors the physics of our reality.
And there was a guy called James Gates, who was a science advisor to the Obama administration.
And he led a team that, say, they found in the fabric of our reality, they found codes that mimic browsers.
And that they contain what they called error correcting codes, where if something's, you know, starting to get off kilter, the error correcting codes bring it back into line.
And what we're seeing now is more and more people are starting to see this because, like I said earlier, so many things that make apparently mysteries start to make sense.
For instance, they found all around the world these recurring sequences everywhere of The Fibonacci number sequence, pi, golden mean, golden section, and the fractal patterns, which are basically the holographic principle of as above so below.
They're in the way that storms form, in the way that hurricanes form, in the way that plants grow, in the way that shells form.
The proportions of the human face, they're bloody everywhere.
Why?
And a lot of the ancients who had this esoteric knowledge, they were building their cathedrals according to these proportions.
Not least the Knights Templar, who were behind a lot of the temple design in Europe.
And these codes, they're computer codes!
They were co-opted as computer codes.
Yeah, I say they are what we call the genetic code.
I say that's a computer code.
Yeah.
And the other thing, which you'll find interesting, when you think about it, You know, people talk about the natural world, and they talk about the natural physical body.
And you say, well, why do you say natural?
They say, well, it's biological.
Okay.
And so, because biological is different from what you perceive as technological, the biological must be, it must be natural.
Well, yeah.
But how do you know that?
Unless we have something that is absolutely solid gold, inimpeachably natural to compare it with, we don't know that.
And what I can say, having researched these people for 34 years now, is they treat the body as a form of technology.
A very, very advanced form of technology, yes.
But they treat the biological as the technological.
And what they're doing now is manipulating more and more to make it more and more synthetic in nature.
This is where this synthetic biology comes from, symbio and all that stuff.
They treat it as a form of technology.
And so in Moderna documents, they were talking about the content of the vials.
Vials, very good term, vial.
And they describe it as like an operating system.
Like a computer operating system.
And you're seeing more and more of these people starting to talk in those computer terms in relation to what we know as biological programs.
So, yeah, I think we're on to something.
Obviously, we go back to the start.
Whatever we think we know, there's always more to know.
Dramatically more to know.
But I think there are certain principles here that are definitely moving in a direction of understanding a lot more about the world than we did before.
All right.
So we only have a few more minutes here, David.
So I always hate this question, but I'm going to ask you anyways.
So if you're somebody listening and you hear this and you think, If you have the thought, I don't want to live in a simulation, I want to live in reality, or I want to have a better life, or I don't want to be part of this loose ritual, or I want to get out of this sort of third layer simulation, where do you go with that?
Well, it goes deeper, obviously.
I'm sure.
The reincarnation cycle is the Wheel of Samsara, as they call it in the East.
That's to keep you in the simulation.
Yeah.
But you keep coming back.
You go out into a reality that is massively less dense than this one.
And to your perception, to your experience, you're in a form of heaven now.
That's the Gnostic path.
You've got to get out of this.
Yeah, you get into that.
And then what's interesting, Tom, is the parallels between what people call the spirit world, the astral, in other words, and the human experience.
There's a lot of parallels between it, and one of them is giving your power away to authority.
Feeling small, feeling inadequate, and therefore giving your power away to perceived betters and perceived experts.
That happens, of course, in the human world.
But when you listen to these, and I've read and listened to untold numbers of near-death experiences looking for the common patterns.
And what happens is, one of the things that they describe And these people that remember their incarnation describe is the mind wipe, where their memories are literally wiped.
So they come in and one or two will have a memories.
I mean, you know, from very, very early age, some children have memories of past lives, but most of them don't.
And certainly by the age of seven, it starts to disappear.
And they talk about the mind wipe.
And so we're being told by the Eastern religions and the New Age and what have you, that we have to keep coming back to learn lessons to pay off our karma, which I think is a load of crap, actually.
And so you...
You can't bring in the previous lessons, so you don't have to learn them again.
Your mind's bloody white.
And when you go out, you say to people, you believe in reincarnation, oh yeah, so you've had many lives, oh yeah.
But, sorry, when you had your near-death experience, and you left the body, you said you were bewildered, you didn't know where you were.
But you must have gone through that so many times.
Why don't you remember?
And they don't.
And so they become putty in the hands, if you like, of entities that are perceived to be guides and elders and spiritual heroes to tell them, oh, this is what you have to do and now you go back and you've got karma and you've learned your lessons.
All the life review, oh yeah, not what you did there, and all this shit, and so you keep coming back.
And so, you know, I looked at the world and I thought, when I was looking at this reincarnation stuff, and I thought, well, when you travel the world, and I've been about 60-odd countries, not many now, I'm banned from, but And most of the world is not having a good time.
It's trying to survive another day under enormous challenges and impositions.
So my question was, when you leave, I thought, I can understand that consciousness could be manipulated to come into this reality and get caught.
But when it leaves, I mean, you're going to go, I'm not going back to that shithole again.
Bloody hell, it's horrible.
But they do.
And it's this idea.
Oh, yeah, but it's a great experience.
You learn and you grow and all that stuff.
And it's keeping this going because it's in these dense, dense levels we call human experience matter.
that the real Lucius is created, is generated because of all the challenges.
It sounds like you've been also very influenced by Gnostic thought, because this is similar to
what I'm no expert, but... Well, it's yeah, in a way, but I've been that's kind of interesting
because I reached conclusions and they were basically the conclusions that I've just described.
Yeah.
And only then did I come across the Gnostics.
Gnostics, yeah.
So, if I had come across the Gnostic stuff at the start, I'd have thought, or anyone could rightly have said, well, you've just been influenced by that.
But the point is, it wasn't something that put me on this road of... Yeah, it's the other way around.
You came to it by yourself and then found that somebody else had...
When I saw the Gnostic writings, I couldn't believe it to start with.
I thought, shit, this is what I've concluded.
And so that's why it was much better that way around than the other way around.
Yeah, got it.
So you came to it yourself.
Yeah, and the other thing is that, you know, even mainstream scientists now, people that have half a mind anyway, that is open.
They are starting to conclude the same.
There's a guy called Silas Bean, who led a team at the University of Bonn, who concluded that this is almost certainly a simulation.
They actually concluded it was based on a matrix of cubes, but who knows?
But there's a lot of stuff now where they're going down that road.
Yeah.
All right, David.
It's always fascinating.
All right, mate.
Nice to see you.
Glad you're well.
Good to see you again.
I think we had a... People, I think, will get a lot of interesting ideas out of this, and that's all that matters, really.
That's all that matters.
You know, just breaking out of the... Just keep thinking.
Breaking out of the eddy and letting... The amazing where it takes you.
Cheers mate.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye bye.
There's a lot of things that I've said over the years which were perceived to be crazy
and then suddenly they start to move mainstream.
I'm waiting for someone to convince me that we don't live in a simulation.
I should see you. I should see you. I should see you.
What is real?
How do you define real?
If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.
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