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June 15, 2023 - David Icke
32:34
Pro soccer child abuse whistleblower on "demonic, satanic" paedophile coach - Gareth Icke Tonight
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The truth is the truth.
It has no friends, no skin in the game, in the same way that it has no enemies and no axe to grind.
It just... it just is.
And when you speak the truth, it rolls off the tongue in a different way.
It feels different.
You know when you're lying.
You know when you're being dishonest.
It doesn't feel quite right.
It has that sort of slightly off taste, even if you're doing it for the right reasons.
When I was a kid, these were called white lies.
I imagine now they're called privileged or oppressive lies, but let's pretend they're still called white lies.
They were allowed.
You can tell a fib if it saves someone's feelings.
That's allowed, and I can get on board with that.
But in those days, even though, you know, I'm not that old, the feelings you were saving were those of someone with a spot on the end of their nose.
That white lie didn't get the wheels in motion for your classmates cock and balls to end up in the bin at the Tavistock.
It didn't get the wheels in motion for your classmates to end up with type 2 diabetes and a death sentence.
It was harmless.
A white lie.
Forgivable in the eyes of your parents and whatever beard on a cloud you believe in.
But what is a white lie now?
Yeah, you're a woman.
I mean, you're six foot five and 200 pounds and your hands could shovel three watermelons, but sure, you're a woman.
Go live your best life.
I can actually get on board with that.
Many of you won't, but I'll humour it.
Because I know it's not true, of course, but I'll refrain from pointing out the obvious.
You're an adult and you aren't affecting anyone else.
Go live your best life, like I say.
But then that white lie, that was said with nothing but love and tolerance, ironically, got you in the female toilets.
It got you into female sports teams.
And then that harmless white lie started to take on a more sinister angle.
It's affecting others now.
It's not just you.
Do you, hun.
And then that white lie was used to mutilate children.
That original act of kindness, of empathy, of inclusion, of acceptance, was used as a precursor to drugs, sterilize and physically modify confused and desperate children.
And it makes me hark back to my childhood.
Was that white lie as harmless and as forgivable as it once was?
Clearly not.
It's been exploited.
People's good nature has been exploited, as it was with Stay Home to Save Granny.
And good people fell for it.
They've affirmed mental illness.
To be kind.
The author, Cormac McCartney, he died this week and he put it best in The Counsellor.
You don't think that's a bit cold?
I think the truth has no temperature.
I'm joined in the studio by Andy Woodward and his friend Andy Marsh.
Andy Woodward is a former professional footballer and abuse whistleblower.
Andy Woodward, while a trainee at Crew Alexandra Football Club, was a victim of the now infamous abuser Barry Bennell.
He alerted the police in 2016, which led to a long list of footballers Both of you, welcome to the show.
Did you always want to be a footballer?
Did you always know that was your passion?
Yeah, it was from a very young age.
As a young child I always had a ball in my arm and my dad always sort of, he played football when he was younger.
And I watched football with him and it was my passion really from being in primary school.
To get a gig at Crewe is pretty prestigious for people around the world that don't know.
Crewe, they're not a huge football club, but they're a big feeder club for young players, aren't they, to big clubs like Liverpool and Manchester United.
So, it's quite prestigious that you're there, but how early did the abuse start?
Was it as soon as you arrived?
Yeah, I mean, initially, Bernal was at Manchester City.
That's where I was, initially.
For the first couple of months, I started at Manchester City, but then he transferred from City and went to Crewe.
So we took our team with him.
So my initial start was at City, and then went over to Crewe.
So was anything happening at City at that point that alerted you that this guy's not right?
Well yeah, it was only within about three or four weeks, and the grooming process started, as I didn't know then, but I do know now.
And he'd just start tipping up at me mum and dad's.
And just saying, oh, I'm just in the area.
And that was his grooming process there to start with the parents first.
Really?
Yeah.
And he then within a few weeks said that, you know, just to enhance my football about coming, staying at weekends and I could go to city game with him or extra training.
And that's how he got into the process of grooming the parents first.
And then the abuse pretty much started within two weeks.
So, how did that feel?
It's a stupid question, but you must have been pretty confused as a kid.
Yeah.
As to what is going on.
I mean, the one thing, when you're aged 10 or, you know, they say from the age of 4 to 8, quite a lot of abuse victims can't remember.
They have no recollection, but their path of life is similar or the same as what myself.
But at 10, I did remember everything and, you know, it's...
It's a case of the empowerment that they have, you freeze.
Is that what happens, is it?
That you just feel like helpless against it?
Yeah, completely helpless.
So did you alert anyone?
You say you were 10 and you knew what was going on.
Did you alert anyone at that point?
No.
Zero.
I know there are abuse victims or, you know, some people wait until, some people wait until the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s.
Some people in the 60s and 70s.
Some people will take it to the grave.
Some people will never speak about this.
So it's that empowerment and power they have over you that it was not something that I could speak about.
Were other players in a similar situation as well?
Yeah.
Yeah, because for me, his method, he'd choose two out of the team, the most vulnerable ones or the ones that are parents that he could groom, and then the rest we'd go on trips out as a team, and yeah, you could physically see that he was under the covers, touching other players.
It's one of those things, like, I'm quite open-minded and very rarely am I surprised by stuff in this world, but this subject, I still can't compute it.
I mean, was that something that you had to go through?
You almost had to, just to try and process exactly what was happening?
Yeah, it's a long, long process.
I mean, I've had 20-odd years of therapy to actually get the realisation and understand it.
I mean, now, I've had the latest therapist.
He said, you could do my job and many more without even thinking about it, because it's about understanding the mens rea of what they do and why they do it.
And also the understanding that it's not your fault as a child.
Those are the two categories that are the most difficult thing because it's always why and you feel to yourself that it's your fault.
And it's that acceptance that it's not your fault as a child.
That's number one.
And number two is understanding what these people are.
Because, you know, the devastating life sentence that they give you And the jugisto system around the world is terrible, but it's a life sentence.
And I can tell you that.
Well, how would you describe Ben Allen?
Because he's not a human, because there's no humanity there, but is it almost like he's almost like a demonic?
That's exactly how I put it.
A demonic, satanic human being that shouldn't even be on this planet, but is.
They are also very, very clever, clever, methodical people that know exactly what they're doing.
So would any of the other coaches and staff around the club, would they not pick up on any of this that was happening?
Would they not even, you know sometimes you get a gut feeling, you know you meet someone and you're like, John, I don't like him.
Yeah.
Was that not happening?
That was there, it was around the club, you know, the amount of boys that stayed at his house, the amount of, you know, words that were said at different football clubs, professional clubs, within the first teams, within the players, within the staff.
You know, other football clubs were all talking about it, but nothing happened.
Why do you think that was?
Because, you know, after speaking up about this for a number of years, it's clear to see, number one, there was a cover-up.
We were producing players by these coaches that were a ring, a paedophile ring, at professional clubs producing footballers.
And greed, ego, and damn right, you know, satanic, were allowing that to happen within these football clubs.
And there's more.
The quote I said in the intro that I saw, and it really stood out to me, when you spoke to the Guardian, I think it was in 2016, where you said you should know that there's more than one abuser.
So there was a series of approaches at Manchester City, at Cru Alexander, Yeah, I mean, for me, I did it, I had done my research, you know, ex-detective, I'd done it and I'd worked it all out at the football clubs that I'd been at.
The tournaments were all held by the same, you know, the people that were behind them, Southampton, Portsmouth, Celtic, you know, it goes on.
And I've done more work around that and it actually even touched all the North East clubs.
It was a circle of circle and a paedophile ring.
How rife is this?
And do you think that this still happens now?
At the professional clubs, because of the magnitude of what I did, and it did go global and it went around the world, I've been in every country, in Europe, to Australia, to America, Brazil, Colombia, you name it.
Now, the lesser clubs in this country, or at club level, Who knows, because they can slip.
It's like online, they can slip in.
But top professional clubs, the safeguarding now so say by the FA, which they don't do near enough, who knows?
You can slip through.
How did your life change then in 2016?
You went to the Guardian and this whole thing exploded.
Because I remember it at the time.
It was huge.
Yeah.
I mean, I was told it was the biggest tidal wave in football's history.
And looking back on it now, Gareth, what I have been able to reflect on, it's took me seven years but to reflect on it, what I can say is that I was treated like a piece of meat in 2016 because this went global and I had every reporter and everybody Constantly at me to do interviews, interviews, interviews.
There's nothing about my well-being or well... I was doing 10 and 11 in one day.
Nobody was checking if I was okay.
Right.
Which I have learned that.
But I had to do it.
I had to make it as big as I could.
Not for my own ego or greed.
Just to help other people and to stop it happening.
Yeah.
And to be heard.
Because they weren't going to put a lid on me.
Well, what did the FA do about it?
I know, obviously, Bennell got convicted, but what did they do?
Or was it just a whitewash?
A case of, you know, we've got some horrendous headlines here, let's just act like we're doing something, and then... They did it strategically, and I've looked back on what they actually did, and what they did is they had me in their offices first thing, because they had Sky News, BBC, ITV, Channel 4, all outside waiting, a big line of them, to say that they were going to help me, Greg Clarke, And Lone Beholder, he's not here anymore, is he?
Or I wonder why.
But that was just to feed me to say, oh, we will help you, Andy.
But down the line, they've done everything they possibly can to silence me, shut me up.
I could go on and on and on, but looking back on it now, what I can say is that the FA and PFA are an institute.
And institutes are very, very powerful.
With the other players that came forward, I think Paul Stewart was one of the most famous ones.
He was ex-Tottenham, ex-Liverpool.
Do you have any contact with them?
Do they contact you?
No, not anymore.
I did do.
I even set up a huge, well at the time it was a massive foundation.
I had over 97 film crews in the Midland.
But looking back on it now, within three weeks I've been taken off it.
And, you know, that hurts, but I also now have been able to understand why, so I distanced myself from anything that was linked to these institutes, because they're wrong and truths are truths.
I didn't want to be a part of the non-truth.
Why do you think the other players did then?
Do you think it was a case of... because if an institution is investigating itself, You're not going to get to the truth are you?
No chance.
But you might get 10% of the truth and maybe they thought, oh well I'll take that 10%.
Absolutely.
And their principles were, you know, and I've got nothing against any other player that's done whatever they've done, but they're, you know, in regards to that, they're a big institute, the FA, and their reasons for doing what they've done for the FA or PFA are the right reasons because they do want to help.
You know, but in regards to myself, not only did it go hugely global, but I'm all about truth.
And I'm a bit of a warrior.
Well, I am a warrior.
I'll stand up to anyone.
I don't care who or how big they are.
That's fine.
Do you think that what you endured created that warrior in you?
Because some people I can imagine crumbling, and others coming out of it.
Yeah.
I mean, in respect to myself, you know, I've had a number of times where I tried to take my life, and I do believe in the universe, and I believe in my path of life.
You know, I've had it where it snapped completely, and how did I not die?
Well, I'm here for a reason.
And that path was set out for me.
And that's why I'm still here.
Now, in the last seven years, the things that have happened to me, I shouldn't be here, but I am.
Do you think this, I guess this kind of snowball that you started in 2016, because I keep hearing things about, and you were speaking about it earlier, about other sports where this is getting investigated there.
Do you think it is just going to explode?
Yeah, I do.
I feel like there's a bit of an epiphany going on in the world and I do believe that it's starting to rumble and we can see it globally.
They're still trying to put a lid on it in some respects from human trafficking to sex abuse or even mental, any abuse within all sports, within the media, within the film industry, within the music industry, we can go on.
It's a satanic world that we've lived in for generations and that satanic world that we have had to endure for generations and the millions, not thousands, millions of people that are no longer here, that will be reincarnated because they've done nothing wrong, but it's time for the shift from dark to light and it's been waiting a long time.
Do you think then, I always try and put a good spin on everything, if I'm honest, because it just helps you get through the day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the fact that all this stuff is coming out, and it is so dark, and it is, you know, it is horrible, but that actually, that's the only way we get to the light.
Yeah.
Is by, you know, bringing out the dark, yeah.
Yeah.
Of course it is, completely, and do you know something?
It's like, you know, this... I have a saying, and my late partner had it, like-minded people collaborate together to change the world.
And these groups and groups of people that are doing everything they can to bring some light here.
And, you know, I'm a part of a load of them that I can see it.
And I'm now feeling, I actually feel that there's a lift.
Yeah, yeah.
I can feel that there does seem to be a shift.
To go back to Benoit, I saw a couple of bits, because obviously when I knew I was going to be talking to you, I thought, you know, I'll have a look and kind of try and refresh my mind.
Obviously, I remember when it happened.
His brother was a murderer as well?
Yeah, that's a story that my family have had to endure.
And, you know, one thing I can say to you is when I talk to you about the universe and paths of life, when you look at it, before I was born in 1971, my mum's sister, Linda, was followed down Kingsway in Manchester and she was murdered nine months pregnant.
And that was by a man called Ronald Burnell.
And lo and behold we only found, well I only found out when I gave a statement in 1997 that Ronald Bunnell was Barry Bunnell's cousin.
Cousin.
Sorry, not brother.
Cousin.
And Barry Bunnell knew that, and I remember seeing the face of Ronald Bunnell.
It was only when I was older.
I was like, I know that.
I went in that... He took me into a flat of Ronald Bunnell's mum and dad's.
So when you talk about satanic and evil, that's how evil he was.
Because he also knew what had happened to my auntie.
And then went on to marry my sister and rape her at 14.
It feels like there's almost a targeting of your family there.
Yes.
Yeah.
When we go into the universe and satanic, there was some kind of attack on my family.
It's unbelievable, isn't it?
He would have seen you, maybe a name on the team sheet and his ears would have gone out and That's extraordinary, isn't it?
Yeah.
Because that's not something that you would read about in The Guardian.
No, no, no, no.
Or anything like that.
No.
You know, and the film with the BBC, you know, which they took down, by the way, and they were always going to take it down and get rid of it and park it.
They wouldn't touch on that.
They wouldn't touch on anything.
But eventually, I do believe, I believe in my path that I will do something because I'm speaking to people in America now.
And I do want to do something, a truth.
Yeah.
Not a BBC floodlights because we'll tell you how to do it.
A truth.
What was your experience like with the BBC then?
When you say horrific.
Horrific.
And they know it and I've documented everything down to the last four years, four and a half years.
I'll give you one incident that, you know, they've got, they have a duty of care of people.
When they're making a film about somebody in child abuse, when you have to do a screen right, and you're doing it for nine till six, seven every day, and one night your head's gone, and you end up being sexually assaulted that night, and they get you back in the following morning at nine o'clock, and they put a robe around me and said, come on Andy, time to go again.
That can't be right to humanity.
And they knew?
Yes.
That's extraordinary.
Well, actually it's not extraordinary at all.
Nothing like that surprises me from a lot of these institutions.
But the truth is truth.
Of course.
And I hope that story comes out through these people that you're talking to in America and stuff.
In terms of a support network, is there something there for you and is there something there for young footballers or young sportsmen and women now that should I hope and forbid something like this happens again.
I'd say they've not gone anywhere close enough.
I gave them something.
I had a huge team of people from around the country, elite people, and I gave it to the FA and PFA and Premier League and they said no.
And the only thing they did use was the mental health in football because it was a holistic solution around protection, safeguarding of players, former players, young players, children, mental health, you name it.
And I was watching PBC actually the following year and Harry and William were on there and it was the identical piece that I'd given just the mental health side of it, but they used the Royals.
Right, obviously.
Yeah.
Not Andy Woodward.
Absolutely.
So no, they'll throw stuff at it to make it look like they've done something for safeguarding or protection or, you know, the poor players that have ended up with gambling addictions and abuse and drugs and all sorts.
What would you do if I was like, do you know what, I'm in charge of the FA now.
You're my go-to man.
What would you do to try and, you know, rebuild it so that it is safer?
Like you say, unfortunately, you're never going to get 100% higher.
Someone's always going to get through, unfortunately.
But to make it as safe as possible for young sportsmen and women?
I think there's... You know, when you talk about holistic solutions, that's about balance and harmony.
And that's having the right people in place that do want to do the righteous good for Children in football.
Oral sports.
And it's about the balance, really, and having no ego and greed.
And when you're there with a passion to make a difference, there's some great people in the FA, but there's some people in the FA, like all institutes, that are actually, there are satanic living their own rights.
So it's about clearing that out and having a balanced approach and a holistic solution that like-minded people come together and you can make a difference there.
Of course.
I think there's other things as well, Gareth.
I think there's the normalisation of paedophilia, so you've got them with a label now of minor attractive person, which is wrong in its own right.
You know, let's not...
Water down the label, really.
That should be addressed.
And I think the social media's got a problem.
You know, over the last two, three years especially, you know, the COVID narrative or anyone who went against the narrative was suppressed.
So that's obviously an algorithm on Instagram and social media in general, Facebook, that can be adjusted.
They can suppress someone that wants to tell the truth or an opinion.
But yeah, the paedophilia still is rife and that is one source, nowadays in modern times, where they can get to the children.
It's a really good point actually.
I thought that during the Covid era where, you know, if you mention the word vaccine for instance, or whatever, or remdesivir, the algorithm would pick it up, but there's still pictures of children on it.
If you can do one, you can do the other.
I've seen, just alone in football and myself on social media, if I mention or have mentioned something around searching algorithms, it's like I've not even posted it.
It's gone.
Completely.
Yeah.
And it's so true.
But, you know, the lengths that they will go to, to a whistleblower, because I've watched it in UNICEF from all over the world, when you've done something so big that touches FIFA as well, we're talking billions of pounds and millions and millions it's cost this country, a loan from New Name, from football to everything, they will silence you.
And they will go out of their way, and they've got, you know, billions of pounds to spend on it.
They will silence you.
So is that what they do?
When you mean silence, I mean, are we talking, you know, brakes on the Volkswagen, or are we talking, you know, there's some hush money, or... As I know...
From money to surveillance, because I was surveillance trained, and I've actually outed them.
Sorry Andy.
From surveillance to keeping an eye out, everything you do, to the lengths that they go to where it gets to a crunch point where they will put you in a mental hospital to silence you.
And they did it to me.
So you, because you became a police officer, didn't you, after?
After football, yeah.
After football.
Was it your experiences that made you do that?
Do you think that pushed you into some kind of job?
Yeah, I think my experiences, for sure, because I'd lost my career and it was like I knew why I'd lost my career.
And it was like, I wanted to help others.
Worst decision of my life?
Yeah.
Really?
Because what I saw in there was, in all institutes you've got good ones, but boy have you got corruption at its highest level.
So you saw some severe corruption in the police?
Oh yeah.
In what sense?
From investigations to officers conduct With arrests, with you name it, right away across the board, right away and the higher you went, looked up, you could see what was going on.
Really?
Yeah.
You knew what had ended your career.
When did your career end and how did it end?
It ended in 1997.
Bernal was in America and he'd been arrested and charged and convicted in Jacksonville and he was due to be flown home because he married my sister and I had two kids with him.
That one, my nephew was 8 and the police were bombarding me and they knew that if they broke me then they'd broke the case and he was getting charged and convicted here.
So I looked at him one day, I think it was the last time they'd come and they were hassling me and I just looked at him and he was 8 and I thought, well, I know what's going to happen to you, exactly what happened to me.
So it was career, because I knew So I went for to look after him.
And then 18 months later, I ended up with panic disorder.
You did?
Mm.
And so that was the football?
Yeah, I carried on for a bit, but, you know, I had panic attacks on the pitch.
Yeah, of course, yeah.
And I was on meds.
So once you're on meds, which, looking back, I wouldn't touch one around, but, you know, looking at it, it was that because it slowed my mindset down.
That must be quite a strange scenario for you with your nephews.
Nephew and niece, yeah.
It has been through life and he's suffered but he's on the men now and he's better because it's knowing what your dad is.
But they're both doing brilliant now.
That's great.
Yeah, doing brilliant.
That's great.
So Ben was in prison?
36 years, yeah.
Would you ever look him in the eye do you think?
I did once.
I did.
I went to prison because that's another story.
I went to prison because I was trying to out crew in 2003.
And lo and behold, they had four barristers to my one.
And the powers that be didn't want it to come out.
So that was when this abuse was still hidden?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
And I lost the case.
And it was a no-win, no-fee, and they told me that it was 99.9% they thought that I had a case to win.
Well, 100% it was there.
Oh yeah, it's been proved later that it was a case there.
Yeah, absolutely.
But, lo and behold, the judge that had been looking at the case favoured it and everything, but then on the day, it was a separate judge.
Right.
And I lost the case.
And he turned around and he said, Mr. Woodward, the best thing you can do is go back to be a police officer.
And he broke my heart.
So how did you end up in prison?
And how did that... Because whilst I was doing that claim, this is ridiculous as well, a solicitor asked me to go and see him in prison to see if he'd give a statement on my behalf about Crewe.
Penal?
Yeah.
And I had to go in and face him, and I sat opposite him, and I kid you not Gareth, I sat there, and people who associate with this that have been abused, is when you see your abuser and you face them up again, no matter whether you're in your teens, twenties, thirties, whatever, you can instantly go childlike, and I went like a ten year old.
Really?
He winked at me, told me he loved me, I still love you, Andy.
Look at me in the eyes.
This guy's a demon.
100%.
How did you feel after that, then, when you left?
I cried for hours in the car.
I'm not surprised.
Yeah, I cried for hours.
So you've done that, then?
You've looked him in the eye?
Yeah.
So there's no reason to do that now?
Yeah, I did.
Do you think you will ever get to a point where you draw a line and you go, do you know what?
I'm done with this now.
I will, Gareth, and I'll tell you when I'll do that.
When I've done all this with Andy and like-minded people collaborating together to get the justice and the truth with these institutes that destroy people, that have destroyed me in the last seven years.
Once I've done that, and I've got some justice, and I stand outside a court and say, well that is justice, I can just sit down and relax and go, my bit's done now.
Because I know more will come.
It's like when I did the Football Guardian, it snowballed to be the biggest to hit the sport.
The stuff I've got now, in seven years, is powerful, but it's just getting the right people that will look at it, deal with it appropriately, And then the truth will come out.
And then others find the courage to stand up.
I sincerely hope that that happens as soon as possible.
Thank you so much both of you for coming in to talk to us.
I know it was a long drive for you Dan, so I really appreciate that.
No problem.
Thank you.
That's all for this week.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Sharing stories like we have today, and often do, can be quite hard to digest and depressing, even.
Whether it be stories of sexual abuse or vaccine injuries, it's hard not to take that negative information and internalise it.
I used to be quite bad at that.
Where I would take the information and really let it affect me.
And I know people that have turned their back on this information, at least for a while, because of that.
It got too much.
But it's so important to share it, because it's the only way that the world can change.
By realizing the depths to which it is capable of sinking.
But to counter that, we need to also acknowledge the wonderful heights to which this world can climb.
Wonderful things do happen, and they happen every single day.
So while it's vital we understand the dark, we need to acknowledge The light sometimes as well.
I'm talking to myself now, by the way, as much as I'm talking to you.
Today is my daughter's fifth birthday and so I'm taking this time to reflect on just how wonderful she is and how blessed I am.
Have a wonderful weekend, whatever you're doing.
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