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May 25, 2022 - David Icke

01:52:08

David Icke Speaks To Heart Nation - Full Interview

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	♪♪ ♪♪
	to the Zachariah Eddiel podcast and Heart Nation on a very special show.
	It's going to go out on both of the shows because today...
	I don't even know.
	I'm going to cry.
	I'm going to move myself or something. But on today's show, we've got a really special guest, somebody who has been an inspiration to me and to Shubha as well, and somebody who has helped to illuminate and bring some clarity to an otherwise misty world.
	I'm not going to go into too much, Luba's going to give an introduction, but needless to say we're both extremely happy to have this amazing person on our show.
	So on our show today we have a guest who needs no introduction, but we'll introduce him anyway.
	So we are very honoured to have Mr David Icke on our show today, a former footballer, TV presenter and prolific author.
	David Icke has lectured around the world, having researched the global conspiracy for over 30 years.
	He has exposed the elite agenda and has brought to our awareness how the minds of humans have been hijacked.
	Thank you so much for joining us today.
	We're so honoured to have you.
	It's David Icke, everybody.
	It's David Icke. You are our hero.
	Pleasure. It's a real pleasure.
	Thank you. You seriously are our hero.
	Every time I see you in London, you probably don't recognise the way I am in the crowds of people, but I do come up to you and say, David, can I have a hug?
	You're my hero. Yeah, it's always so lovely to bump into you at the rallies.
	I've been there a few times.
	You've probably seen me with my yellow hat.
	Yeah. My little mum.
	Yeah, I was at one on Saturday, actually, speaking outside Downing Street.
	And it's important, well, we're seeing the importance of it, you know, immediately afterwards now with this monkeypox nonsense.
	It's important that this momentum continues because I do see many people thinking it's over because they're relating it to COVID. And so the COVID restrictions get rolled back.
	So it's over. We won.
	But actually, COVID was not it at all.
	It was a stage.
	It was a card played to advance the real it, which is the creation of a global fascist dictatorship with complete control by AI of the human mind.
	So a few restrictions, appalling as they were, really fascist restrictions of the COVID era, And the rollback of them, this is just a stage.
	This is just part of their game.
	And we have to keep focused on the fact that the agenda that COVID was meant to advance, that hasn't gone anywhere.
	That's more and more around us.
	If we think we won and that's it, then we're going to get very seriously disappointed very soon.
	Yeah. Yeah, so we have to keep the momentum going.
	So do you feel that people have gotten a bit complacent?
	Well, and I understand why.
	And, you know, I understand why the fantastic numbers that were on the streets of London at the height of the lockdown protests are not the same at the moment, because, you know, the restrictions have been rolled back.
	And also, you know, people Want to enjoy a bit of freedom, which they couldn't before.
	I don't understand all that.
	But what I'm saying is that we mustn't get into the idea that it's gone away.
	It hasn't. Because, you know, you can put things in people's faces, and as a result, you get pushback.
	I mean, England led the world in pushback of the COVID restrictions, to be fair.
	But then when you take them off a bit, and you're not quite in their face, then you can go into another mode, which is to, while people think, you know, breathe, you can go into another mode of continuing to build your prison, but not doing it in a way that's so blatantly obvious to most people.
	While the restrictions have been taken off for now, although they're starting to build up again in various countries, you then announced that you are going to have a new World Health Organization treaty that will actually enshrine in global agreement, global law, if you like, The fact that this handful of people that created and controlled the World Health Organization, the Rockefeller family, Bill Gates, etc., massive influence from China, they are through this treaty going to have the power to decide and dictate in effect what happens in response to health emergencies,
	quote, in every country that's a member of the World Health Organization, which means pretty much everywhere.
	And You know, I've been writing for a long, long time about this plan for a global centralized dictatorship where a handful of people globally are dictating to every community worldwide.
	And here you have a most obvious and extreme example of exactly that with this treaty.
	So, and it's going on now, and people like Johnson and Biden in America, who's been really pushing it, well, through him, he's got a thought in his head, but they are very much in favor of it.
	Other governments are agreeing around the world, which kind of takes you to another level of this, because what's happening is that what's been going on under the surface, behind the scenes, under the radar, has now Entered the public arena.
	It really started when they played the Covid card that what has been done under the radar entered the public arena.
	I said at the time in 2020, early 2020, the cult has entered the room.
	Now people can see it.
	So if you just look at that situation where the World Health Organization wants this absolute fascist, global fascist treaty, And then you've got all these governments around the world, government leaders, just capitulating and saying, yes, we'll agree to that, we'll agree to that.
	So what they're doing is they're giving the sovereignty of their nation and the sovereignty of their individual people to the World Health Organization, which is the Rockefellers and Gates, basically, with massive influence from China.
	So the question is, why would they do that?
	Why would they meekly do that?
	Just immediately, no question, no debate, just, oh yeah, we'll do that, because there is a level of this, what I call the global cult, that works through all these governments and these puppet politicians, these puppet leaders, and therefore from that level comes the, you're going to agree with this, you're going to implement this, and it plays out as loads of apparently individual nations, but not really, All saying at once from the same song sheet, yes, we'll agree to this treaty.
	And actually, you've got these governments agreeing to the treaty, controlled by the same global cult that actually created and controls the World Health Organization.
	So you look at the World Health Organization, you look at governments, what you're actually looking at are agencies of the same force.
	And in the same way, This global cult created the pharmaceutical industry, the pharmaceutical cartel, not least initially via J.D. Rockefeller, the oil tycoon.
	And these regulatory agencies like the MHRA in Britain and the CDC, the FDA in America, That's supposed to protect the public from the extremes of the pharmaceutical industry are actually controlled by the same cult that controls the pharmaceutical industry.
	So when you have, say, Pfizer going to the CDC or the MHRA in Britain and asking for permission to use these fake vaccines, which have created health mayhem and fatalities, the law, on younger and younger children, What you've got is a cult operation, the pharmaceutical cartel, Pfizer in this case, asking another cult operation, the so-called drug regulators in the various countries, for permission to do what the cult wants.
	They also fund them as well, don't they?
	They ask for permission, they're going to get it for that reason.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they, they, Pfizer and actually, they, Ignored the advice of the JCVI as well, didn't they?
	The British government, the NHS, they ignored the advice of the JCVI. What you have with the example you rightly raise is another confirmation of this cult agenda and the fact that these people are working towards that, not the best interests of the people they're supposed to represent and supposed to protect.
	Because the government vaccine advisory committee that you mentioned, for once, once, once ever, it seems to me, advised not to give this fake vaccine to, I think it was 12 to 15 year olds.
	So, oh my goodness.
	But the agenda is that we do.
	So, To healthy 12 to 15 year olds in their woods.
	So what do we do?
	Well, we've got to sort this out.
	We can't have this block on the agenda, can we?
	So I'll tell you what, we'll get Chris Whitty, the Chief Medical Officer of England, and we'll get his mates in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and we'll get them to reassess the committee's decision.
	And what they came out with, of course, Whitty, the dominant one, Was that, oh no, well, yeah, okay, but not on medical grounds, but on educational grounds, you know, the educational grounds they couldn't give a damn about during lockdown.
	We think that you keep schools open, do this, do that.
	We should have the fake vaccination of 12 to 15-year-olds.
	And that's what happened. And that was the cover story.
	It was so insulting of the intelligence.
	It was just shocking, really.
	But the real story was that this committee, for whatever reason, for once, only once, gave or put a block on it, said, no, we don't advise this.
	And so they had to find a way around it.
	And that's why that story happened.
	And Chris Whitty knows that.
	And so when you have people who...
	Say that a fake vaccine is safe and effective when they know the trials are basically non-existent.
	And as he's coming out with these Pfizer documents, they tried to shut down for 75 years.
	They knew from the trials they did have that this was a big problem, this fake mRNA vaccine.
	Or fake vaccine, which is not a vaccine.
	And so from the start, They knew it wasn't safe and effective because trials hadn't been done and those that had been done, if you can call them trials, showed that it wasn't safe and effective.
	And then they start playing it out among older people and adults and people start dying in ridiculous numbers, all covered up by this fake media.
	They call themselves journalists, my God, if only.
	Yeah, I've seen examples of that in my personal life as well.
	Yeah, and so you know You know now that not only have proper trials been done, you know this fake vaccine is killing people and destroying their health for life and shortening their life.
	So what do you do? You start saying younger and younger age groups should have it.
	So we are dealing with psychopaths on a level that just defies the imagination.
	And we need to understand that to understand what we're dealing with.
	And these people like Chris Whitty and Antony Fauci in America, Bill Gates and all this crowd around the world that have been pushing this, they are mass murderers because it's premeditated mass murder because if you know that these fake vaccines are killing people, And you still say they're self ineffective and should go to younger and younger age groups until you've got babies having them, then you are involved in premeditated mass murder.
	That's what these people are.
	And it fits the consciousness state that I've been exposing all these years of these people.
	They are pure, undiluted, evil.
	And evil, in my definition, is the absence of love.
	They have a total absence of love.
	And by the way, just to finish this point, you mentioned this vaccine advisory committee.
	OK, so they advise against Fake vaccinating 12 to 15-year-olds, healthy 12 to 15-year-olds as they call it.
	So then you think, well, if they're advising against that, they're not going to advise any lower age groups, are they?
	No. They're not going to advise that it happens to lower and lower age groups because at 12 to 15 they've said no.
	But they have.
	And they have.
	And they have because their card's been marked.
	Excuse me. Excuse me.
	No more of that, thanks.
	That's how it works.
	Can I quickly ask you a question?
	In terms of the spiritual powers that be, the divine, why would they let this happen in this world?
	It's a huge question, David.
	It's almost like I'm saying, why has God allowed these people to hijack the world in the way that they have?
	What do you think is going on?
	Is it to do with that duality thing of the yin and the yang?
	Do we need that duality? Or what is going on?
	Well, that's a big question.
	But I mean, you know, this divine, as people call it, I see it as a state of infinite awareness.
	And one way of describing it is all that is, has been and ever could be, which is just another way of saying it's all possibility and all potential.
	And therefore, if you have all possibility and all potential waiting to be tapped into and manifested, then you have all potential for all possibility.
	I mean, anything can happen.
	And so you are going to get aspects of it that get into a chaotic state of consciousness, an inverted, distorted state of consciousness, which is what this global cult is all about.
	That are actually going to express a very unpleasant agenda.
	But for me, in the end, this greater consciousness is still in control, if you like.
	This is still like a flying an elephant's back.
	But it's also an experience.
	It's an experience that...
	Because for me, what...
	All these different aspects of this one whole consciousness doing, or what they are, it's infinite awareness, all it is, has been and ever can be, experiencing itself.
	And so you are going to experience the not very nice as well as the very nice.
	And what I suggest has happened is that a consciousness that's all part of this This whole, but it's fallen into a very distorted state of awareness.
	And it's expressing that in its desire to control and its desire to oppress and its desire to dominate.
	For me, what's happened, and in this book coming out in July called The Trap, I go into this in some considerable detail.
	We are living in a simulation.
	Like a virtual reality simulation.
	And it's been created to hijack human perception, the human mind.
	And so, this simulation, we basically interact with it through the five senses.
	And it has the same, you know, in principle, you could symbolize it as coming out of the womb with a headset on.
	And going to, you know, the grave at the other end, still with the headset on.
	Now, if that happened, your perception would be what the headset was telling you your perception should be.
	Because, you know, you put a headset on in a virtual reality game, and then you take it off.
	When you take it off, you realize, even if you hadn't before, that it's a virtual reality game, although they can seem very real.
	You see the way that people react to them.
	But you've got something to compare it with, right?
	I've taken it off now.
	This was just a virtual reality game.
	But imagine if you never took it off.
	Imagine if you were born with it on and you went to the end of your life with it still on.
	Or your perception would be whatever was delivered to your brain by that headset.
	And like I say, I go into this in the track.
	And where we interact with this headset, with this simulation, with this Matrix, and the Matrix movies were, especially the first one, was very accurate in the way it portrayed it, in my view.
	When you, therefore, coming from just a five-sense perspective, Where your reality is kind of see it, touch it, taste it, hear it, you know, and anything else beyond that is like crazy and far out, then you are in this simulation and you are of this simulation because you don't have anything else to compare it with again.
	And so the headset's on all the time and the headset's telling you what to think or not to think and it's, you know, what are your headsets?
	And this is why when people go through this process, and so many people are now, they go through this process of what we call awakening.
	So what is awakening?
	Awakening is awakening from the dominance of the five senses.
	It's going into expanded levels of awareness.
	Not necessarily states of awareness that you can see, Because the body is a computer program.
	It's a biological computer program.
	They want to make it a synthetic computer program.
	It's where they're going with it. But at the moment, it's a biological computer program.
	And it is designed to process the information from the matrix.
	So if you look at what we can see, What we can see is the most ridiculously, ludicrously, ridiculously narrow bank of frequency called visible light.
	I mean, according to mainstream science, the electromagnetic spectrum, which is basically this, the electromagnetic spectrum is basically this level of the simulation, is 0.005% of what exists in what they call the universe.
	0.005%.
	Some say it's as much as 0.5%, but it doesn't matter.
	It's tiny. And visible light, which is the only frequency band that we can see, is a smear, a smear, the 0.005%.
	So we are basically blind.
	The body has been programmed.
	This is why the visual frequency band that we can see, visible light, is so ridiculously tiny because The more that the body can be programmed to focus your attention in a small, small band of frequency, the more ignorant you're going to be of the greater reality.
	They don't want you having a wide frequency band of visual reality where you can see deeper into the field, the reality field, and realize that this is just a tiny, tiny part of an infinite reality.
	They want you to believe that this is everything.
	And what happens with what we call awakening is people start to awaken, break out of that five sense prison cell, and they start to tap in to greater and greater, more expanded levels of awareness.
	Like I say, not necessarily that they see those levels of awareness, but they are influenced by them.
	They're influenced by them in terms of insight and knowing Intuition and all these things.
	And what happens then as this awakening goes on, as we're seeing with people all over the world now, it really is...
	I mean, I've been doing this for 32 years now.
	I've never seen anything like it since the COVID era started.
	The number of people have awakened.
	Because when tyranny is put here, it's much more difficult going to deny life.
	What's the question of me, David?
	Sorry to interrupt. And then the next question after, you know...
	You realize that this COVID thing is a scam.
	You go, well, what else is a scam?
	What else don't I know?
	And then you can go deeper into the expansion of awareness.
	And when you do, the information being fed to you through the five senses ceases to become all-encompassing to your perception.
	You start to have other insights.
	You start to see things.
	And from this expanded level, that's when you connect the dots.
	If you look at the five senses, they're actually programmed only to see dots.
	If I'm looking around now, I'm seeing a couple of lights, a computer, a window, a filing cabinet, whatever, a chair.
	Between those forms is empty space to my five senses.
	But there isn't empty space.
	These are just a frequency level.
	What we call form is a frequency level of an infinite field.
	And because the five senses can only pick up that frequency band at which what we call form exists, that's all it sees.
	And between the form, it sees empty space.
	But actually, as you expand your awareness, you become aware that actually there is no empty space.
	It's all filled by consciousness, energy, awareness.
	And you start to connect dots.
	You start to see how the...
	How the pixels become pictures, whereas the five senses can see only dots and everything's apart from everything else.
	They don't see the unity of everything.
	And when you start to awaken, you start to see that we're all expressions of the same awareness in the end and your whole perspective changes.
	And the idea of the simulation is to feed you a sense of reality Which keeps you in that five sense prison cell.
	So you don't go into that expanded state of consciousness.
	But despite all that, it just shows the power of consciousness.
	People are in greater and greater numbers going through this process.
	And then suddenly they see things they didn't see before.
	So do you think that our consciousness can be expanded quite drastically outside of that small frequency?
	Yeah, but that's our natural state.
	You have this filter.
	The body is a filter. It's an information filter.
	The brain is not the source of consciousness.
	The brain processes information.
	So if your information is only coming from the five senses, which is basically the communication system of human society, like the media, whatever, education, what passes for it, then your brain will process that information.
	But if you expand your awareness and you let higher levels of consciousness come in, then your brain will process that.
	And it will process a very different reality to what you were seeing before.
	And interestingly, they have realized now, mainstream science, that they thought before that once the brain was formed, then that was it.
	That was the brain for life.
	But they now know that that's not.
	It's something called brain placidity, as in plastic.
	It's malleable.
	Oh, I've heard of this.
	I don't know if you've heard of Dr Joe Dispenza, but he talks a lot about neuroplasticity as well.
	Yeah, and the point being that what brain placidity is, is that the information your brain is Processing dictates the way the neurons fire and the brain processes information.
	It processes information and forms its networks on the basis of the information it's receiving.
	So, like I say, if you're only operating in five sense reality and you believe what the authorities say, you believe what the newspapers say and the media says in general, then your brain will be firing It's information processing system on the basis of that information and the frequencies that that information represents.
	And, you know, when you say to people, or you hear people say, I mean, you must have come across it, they say, look, I can't understand it.
	It's so obvious what's going on.
	They can't see it for the same reason that the computer system in China does not process great chunks of the internet because it's firewalled off.
	And when your brain is receiving only one type of information and it's forming itself and its process of Information processing in a certain way and linking to certain frequencies, then it's like being, it's like firewalling off.
	It can't literally, you know, people say, I can't get my head around it, mate.
	They literally can't.
	But when then the awakening process starts and you start to let other possibilities in, Then your brain starts to change the way it's processing information and the frequencies it's tapping into in relation to the new information that's coming.
	And this is part of how this awakening works.
	People say, I've heard them say so many times, why couldn't I see it before?
	It's so obvious.
	Well, they couldn't see it before for the same reason the Chinese computer system It's not decoding great chunks of the internet.
	It was programmed not to.
	So the more you literally open your mind to other possibilities, the more your brain starts to process information to reflect that opening mind.
	And it starts to see the world in a completely different way.
	What you're doing, in effect, is you're overriding the body program Which is designed basically to process the five senses.
	And if you only do that and you don't question anything, you don't just process what you're told, then you won't see anything else.
	You'll only see that because you're in the program and of the program.
	The program is dictating your perception.
	Your perception becomes your behavior, so the program is It's dictating your behavior.
	But once you allow yourself to open to more possibility, I mean, the first process of it is ever so simple.
	I'm going to put before me, literally or symbolically, a blank sheet of paper.
	I'm not going to have preconceived ideas.
	This is what I was told at school, so it must be true.
	I'm going to just say, okay, I'm going to look at the world in terms of evidence, not preconceived idea.
	And you start to realize that all these things that were told are solid gold truths that are taken for granted, everyone knows that, mate, in the education system and by the media, actually have no evidential base to them at all.
	They just survive as a perception by constant repetition.
	And so your mind starts to move.
	Hold on a minute. What more is there to know that I thought I knew, but obviously I don't.
	And the process goes on.
	And so, you know, when these marches you've experienced in yourself, they're not really protests.
	They're a completely different energy because they are...
	Overwhelmingly the people that go there are in this awakening process and the energy they generate between each other etc is reflecting of that as it was on Saturday.
	Great people there. It's interesting that you were talking about overriding the program because I had a question regarding the law of attraction and obviously how that's quite a big thing especially You know, in the alternative New Age movement.
	So I wanted to ask you, what do you think of the law of attraction and does it work?
	And how can we use it without the toxic positivity and all the kind of commercialism that goes behind it?
	Yeah, I watched a DVD once.
	Have you ever come across it? It's called The Secret.
	Yeah. The law of attraction.
	And the foundation of it, and certainly part of it, was if you want a Ferrari, you can have one.
	Right? So you put Ferraris all over everywhere you look and all that stuff.
	Well, for me, the law of attraction, yes.
	But it works like this.
	Right? Your perception creates your reality.
	So we are living, although the five senses give us a very different kind of perspective because it only sees form, but we are living in a field of consciousness energy, a field of potentiality and possibility on a vast range of frequencies.
	The lower frequencies, if you tap into them, the frequencies of depression, of emotional turmoil, of fear, all these low frequency emotions, they're the frequencies where I can't, I've got no power exists there.
	And so if you, for instance, put it in the simplest way, if your perception of yourself is I'm little me and I have no power, Then that perception generates a frequency.
	It generates a frequency that represents that perception.
	And we're generating frequencies all the time.
	You know, every emotion, every thought, depending on the nature of the emotion and thought, has a frequency, and we're broadcasting that.
	I mean, even me talking now, it's not words that are coming out of my mouth.
	It's frequencies that are being generated by the vocal cords.
	And what happens is the ear picks up that sound, that sound wave, that frequency.
	It turns it into electrical signals and communicates it to the brain and the brain decodes it into what we call words.
	So what's passing between us now before the ears do that conversion process It's frequencies.
	It's all frequencies. We're giving off frequencies.
	So if you have a perception of little me, I have no power, that represents frequency.
	And it's a very low and it's a very narrow frequency because a very limited frequency because the frequency represents the limitation of your perception.
	So you are then interacting with this infinite field of possibility and probability on that level of frequency.
	You're interacting with that level of the infinite field that represents the manifestation of little me.
	So what happens then is your little me perception interacts with this field of possibility on the little me perception level of frequency.
	And you manifest in your life self-fulfilling prophecies that you're little me and have no power.
	It's a feedback loop.
	And, you know, we live in two worlds.
	We've got the world of this global cult, which hoards all the knowledge I'm talking about now and a lot more in the secret society network, not even in the secret society network, in the inner core of it.
	And the idea is that's passed over through the generations of the cult.
	So they know how the system works.
	They know how our perceptions become our reality.
	And over here is the population Which is kept in ignorance by the education system, the media, and every other form of communication apart from the alternative.
	And a lot of that doesn't go into this.
	Most of that doesn't go into this.
	So the idea is to keep them in ignorance.
	They want the population to believe that everything's random, that things happen, but they're not.
	Any part of their own perceptions creating them.
	They don't want us to know the connection between perception and experience reality or we change our perception and get a different experience reality.
	They want to keep that information.
	Why? Because then they know that if they can program our perception, they're programming our experience reality.
	How do we change that perception for ourselves so that we take control and we take charge of that?
	Well, you know...
	If we just take this explanation on one stage further, it kind of answers that.
	If you change your self-identity and you stop identifying with the body and you realize the body is simply a vehicle for you to experience, the true you, I, consciousness, eternal consciousness, to experience this reality, then you are self-identifying, not with the limitation of the body and the labels of the body, The labels that we think is the eye when it's really just an experience for the eye.
	David Icke's not me.
	David Icke is the name of an experience that my eternal eye is having.
	And of course we've got different names so we know each other apart and how we work in this reality.
	That's fine. You're not wrong with that at all.
	The problem is when you completely self-identify with that as the I. Because then what you're self-identifying with is limitation.
	With five sense limitation.
	So when you change your self-identity and you not just intellectually, not just as a concept, but you live the fact.
	That you are an expression of all that is, has been, and ever can be, having a brief experience called human, and the labels of the human life are experiences, not the eternal I. Then what happens is, this is why it's so much simpler than, you know, the new age and all that stuff.
	It makes it sound so completely complicated.
	You've got to go on this quest and you've got to do this.
	Fine, fine. Do it.
	I'm not knocking it. But it's much simpler than that.
	You change your self-identity.
	You change what you identify as, as the I. So if you self-identify the body and its labels and its life story as you, then you're identifying with limitations.
	When you self-identify with being an expression of infinite awareness, having that experience, what you're doing is you're expanding your sense of self.
	You're not contracting it, little me, you are expanding it.
	And the more you expand your sense of the I, without any kind of questing, your consciousness field expands with the self-identity expansion Into greater and greater swathes of the infinite field.
	And so you're accessing suddenly greater and greater swathes of insight, intuitive knowing, and all these greater insights.
	And you start to see things you couldn't see before.
	Why? Because you are interacting with levels of awareness that can see.
	Levels of awareness at which that information that gives you a fix on this world actually exists.
	That's why this cult doesn't want you to do that once you're here.
	I'm just a little bit. I've got no power.
	That's where they want you, because then they got you.
	And the idea of connecting the human brain to AI, as they're openly talking about, people like Ray Kurzweil at Google, the futurist.
	Very easy to predict the future if you know what's coming.
	He's talking about the fact that they're going to start connecting the human brain to AI by 2030, and then the human thought, as we know it, will do less and less of the perception processing until eventually it's negligible, that's his word, and AI will be basically the human mind.
	And the idea of this, they'll tell you, well, it's to make us godlike.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	It's to make us post-human, and it's to So dominate the five sense level of awareness that it holds us in that five sense state of awareness.
	And the idea of this AI connection, the key bottom line reason for it is to stop this consciousness expansion.
	To constantly feed you a self-identity of little me body.
	That's who you are. That's what it will be doing.
	And therefore, if you hold that perception because that's all you're being fed, then you're not going to change your self-identity and realize the true magnitude of what we all are.
	So, you know, the bottom line of this cult to control the masses of humanity has always been to hold us in five cents servitude and ignorance.
	And the answer, therefore, is to break out of that.
	And to do that, you've got to have this Blank sheet of paper where the five cents version of everything has to earn its place on that piece of paper.
	It has to produce evidence.
	And it can't, because it's a scam.
	I mean, something just come to me as you said that.
	If we are constantly creating self-offering prophecies, then doesn't that mean that we could create a version of the world that is actually quite not factually based and is just, let's say, a deluded version of reality?
	Then how can we ever get to a place of like a...
	How can we remove...
	How can we get out of that?
	How can we remove that dusty world so that we can actually have the clarity and be able to see clearly?
	If... No, that's not a great question.
	I don't know if I'm saying it right.
	Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so what do you mean the world of illusion?
	Well, imagine if you've got a self-fulfilling prophecy.
	Like I'm thinking of somebody from my family who you try to mention these things to and she just can't see what I'm saying.
	So therefore...
	Maybe we're not meant to help everybody, because some people are just too stuck in a way that they can't see.
	But if the world is constantly giving us suffering prophecy, how do we break out that loop?
	Well, how are people in greater and greater numbers already doing it?
	They're doing it because they are no longer accepting The constant input of reality and perceptual reality, and they're questioning it.
	And the human consciousness in its pomp, in its power, I mean, this cult and the simulation that it's using to manipulate our perception, it's a fly on an elephant's back, you know?
	I mean, have you seen Bill Gates?
	I mean, you know, I mean, they're not...
	They're not super genius, bloody supermen, are they?
	I mean, crikey. But this is why to control us, they have to control our mind and control our perception, which dictates our behavior.
	And in the end, it comes from within the choice to break that circuit, to break that feedback loop.
	And so, like you just mentioned, You try and try and try and people just don't get it.
	Well, that's just the way it is.
	They don't get it.
	And until they choose to get it by questioning what they think is real now, then they will never get it.
	But as we've seen in this COVID era, people in great numbers who didn't get it before are getting it now.
	So this process of Breaking out of the perceptual straitjacket is just waiting for the choices to be made to do it.
	If I can do it, then anyone can do it.
	It's not someone sitting cross-legged on a mountain like the Buddha, and only he can do it.
	It's open to everybody, as we're seeing as more and more people go through that process.
	But they've got to make the choice to do it.
	What's happened in this COVID period is people's sense of reality, those that are more likely to think for themselves, their sense of reality has been transformed by what's been imposed upon them.
	They thought before they lived in a free world and now suddenly they realize they didn't.
	What I found is It's like the dominoes going all around a room.
	You know, you're not the first one down and the second one goes and the third one goes.
	So the first process is that you realize that something you absolutely believe that was true, you realize it's not true.
	And then as people in Canada, for instance, have realized in great numbers that's not a liberal democracy.
	It's a tyranny.
	And the liberal democracy facade was to hide the tyranny, right?
	So they have realized that.
	And in realizing that, which they believed in, they're asking the question, what else did I think was real?
	Do I think it's real but isn't?
	And the dominoes start to fall and the awakening starts to happen.
	But you can't do it unless the person involved makes the choice to want to do it.
	Because without that choice, they just, change the subject, don't want to talk about it.
	That's ridiculous. I've heard it on the BBC. You're talking nonsense.
	And so without them making that choice, nothing you can do.
	And that's the way it should be, by the way.
	That's the way it should be.
	You know, if we believe in freedom, then we believe in freedom not to get it.
	Right? You know, it's like this idea that freedom or freedom of speech now is the ability of people to say what we agree with.
	That's called freedom of speech.
	No, no. Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak.
	Therefore, it's the freedom to say absolutely what you don't agree with.
	But the freedom to say something you absolutely don't agree with is your freedom to say what you believe.
	Because once you have limits on freedom of speech, you're then giving power to some authority to say what can be said and what can be heard and what can't.
	And that's where we go now.
	And the reason you're doing that is because you want to stop the awakening.
	I mean, the people, most of the people involved in got a clue.
	They're so completely lost in this labyrinth of perceptual manipulation.
	But they're squeezing the information that we can receive from Because they want to impose our perceptions.
	And part of imposing your perception is not only to tell you what your perception should be, it's to make sure you don't have access to any other information that might give you a different perception, a different fix on things.
	This is why they're doing this hysterical level of censorship.
	And it's not from a point of power, it's from a point of weakness.
	Because People in their power, people in their sense of security and sense of self, they don't want to censor anybody.
	I don't want to censor anybody.
	People say, well, don't you want to censor people that say this about you and that about you?
	Well, no, because once you start censoring people, you're actually censoring yourself.
	You're taking freedom of speech from freedom of speech to freedom to say what is acceptable to authority.
	And we're seeing that getting narrower and narrower all the time.
	It's weak people who know, who know they cannot substantiate their claims and their narratives.
	They're the ones that want to censor.
	So this censorship is not a sign of strength, a sign of weakness.
	We're far more powerful than this cult if only people would realise who they are.
	But when we think we're five cents, three score years and ten humans, as the Bible puts it, then we're not tapping into that power and therefore we're able to be controlled.
	On that point about people who are sort of critical of you, Shiva and I, we think you're being truth to the world and that can be light and dark and everything.
	But when I mention you to some people, they say, isn't he that holocaust denier or that nutty reptilian guy or within our so-called truther community, some people see you as a shill.
	And then there are the new ages that say that you'll be negative and come back to a lot of attraction and think, oh, he's negative.
	He's not going to attract positive things into his experience.
	So don't listen to him sort of thing.
	And there actually was, I heard a video on YouTube, and there was Esther Hicks, who channels Abraham, there was Bashar, Daryl Anker, who channels Bashar, and Creon as well, these channelers.
	And they were all discussing you and the impact of being focused on the David Icke work, and how it can get you to go down a negative route and attract negative consequences.
	So this was really interesting to me because when I first started finding your work, people, friends, well-meaning friends were sending me this sort of stuff saying, you know, you've got to be careful about listening to that guy.
	What do you say to those people who perceive you in those ways or have that to say to you?
	I know that's quite a lot there.
	Yeah, I don't have anything to say to them.
	They must perceive me as their perceptions perceive me.
	But if they are truly awake, as opposed to intellectually self-identifying with being awake, then they would ask themselves where the evidence comes from that leads them to those perceptions.
	If you're streetwise, and that's what spirituality is part of being, streetwise, having insight beyond the programmed information you receive, you'd know that if someone is saying something that those in authority don't want people to hear, well, the best way to stop people listening to them is to demonize them and try to discredit them with lies and innuendo.
	And, you know, I've gone on this road with a very simple philosophy.
	Here's some information.
	Make of it what you will.
	Now I'm going to look for some more information.
	And so people receive me as they receive me.
	But, you know, I have shaken my head a few times, for instance, in the New Age arena, where I hear people say, Talking about, you must let go of fear.
	You know, you must realize that you're all one.
	Yeah, okay, that's fair enough.
	Okay, I agree with that.
	And yet, they're fearful.
	They say to me, or they have anymore, but they have.
	You shouldn't be saying that.
	It makes people frightened.
	Well, I thought you were about letting go of fear.
	And you know something?
	Spirituality... is not a means of escapism true spirituality is facing reality as it is and having the backbone and the open heart to deal with it irrespective of the personal consequences for you and I see so much spirituality used as a form of escapism Seeking to persuade yourself that you don't have to go into the dark places and understand the dark places and why things are as they are.
	Because that's not spiritual.
	Well, that's what spirituality is.
	And I hear people say that you...
	You shouldn't talk about this stuff.
	Instead, you should concentrate on getting people to awaken.
	Okay? So, have you ever thought, ladies and gentlemen, of that mentality, to ask the question, why are they asleep in the first place?
	Those questions are never asked.
	Because to ask them is to have to face why they're asleep.
	And the fact that everything is not fine and dandy in this reality, far from it.
	And we have to face why people go through a lifetime of programmed asleepness when they are expressions of all that is, has been and ever can be.
	And to do that, you have to look at these dark places as they are perceived.
	To understand why people are asleep and to understand the methodology that makes that happen and therefore to understand the methodology of unravelling it.
	It's about balance.
	And so if you look at my books, there's probably one exception, a book called The Trigger, which is all about 9-11 and what really happened behind it.
	It weren't 19 Arab eye jackets.
	But Apart from that, you look at every single one of my books.
	I don't talk about the names, dates, places, conspiracy without talking about spirituality and the nature of reality.
	Because the understanding of spirituality and the nature of reality is the way out of here.
	So if you only talk about the conspiracy, you're talking about the problem.
	Well, that's fine. We should know about the problem.
	It's much easier to find answers to problems when you know what the problem is and how it works.
	You try playing the game and your opponent knows the rules and you don't.
	Right? So you have to bring the two together to say this is what's going on.
	This is why people are asleep.
	This is why people are able to be mass controlled.
	And this is how we get out of that.
	This is how we break that cycle.
	It's balance. And I don't see balance in spirituality.
	I see I see a lot of fakery.
	I see a lot of escapism by the massive abundance where you don't want to face what you don't want to face.
	So you kid yourself, you don't have to face it.
	We do! Yes, very true.
	So, again, you know, it's interesting, you know, you throw that question at me, but the answer's already been discussed in the sense of Our perceptions become our experienced reality.
	So what forms our perception?
	Information received.
	So if you don't question the information you receive, and by the way, that includes channeling.
	I've gone into this in the trap in some detail.
	I'm the last person in the world that's going to dismiss the esoteric arts because they're real.
	You know, it's not just one thing.
	The esoteric arts are connecting with other levels of reality, right?
	Well, do they all have to be love and light, levels of reality, feeding you information, fielding you, channeling?
	Do you think only in this reality there is manipulation?
	Well, you know, you've got a big shock if you do.
	And I go into this in the track.
	Into this whole arena of, you know, channelers and psychics, yes, they're connecting into other levels of reality, the ones that are generally doing it, and there's enormous numbers of them.
	But who's on the other end of the line?
	Is it always, you know, some perfect being?
	Or is it some often who's trying to feed you information to knock you off the scent?
	It's interesting. By the way, I asked this question in the book because I've asked it for decades and decades.
	I've watched psychic shows, psychic programs.
	There was one on Freeview on every night at one point.
	I should watch it almost every night.
	I was on the show, David, about Psychic Today.
	No. Psychic Today TV. It was a program so many years ago and I watched it and He's doing the classic psychic show with a studio audience.
	You know, I'm getting a Mary.
	Anyone know a Mary? Okay. And I'm watching this because I'm watching it for research purposes.
	I want to know what's going on.
	And I'm seeing this guy get very, very accurate information.
	Very accurate information in certain situations.
	So accurate, you think, well, that's amazing.
	But my question was, Accurate in terms of.
	Interaction with the family or the loved one, the loved one going, oh, my God, that's absolutely what happened and all that stuff.
	You know, in response to detailed explanations, he's telling me this.
	Oh, my God. But my question was this.
	Why do they never come through?
	They might say, oh, thanks for looking after the cat, you know, and oh, it's great.
	You've got that new job.
	Why do they never say, you're all being freaking manipulated!
	This is an illusion you live in!
	Wake up! Why do they never say that?
	And you get channelers who get right out there, right out there, and they will do that.
	But... I suppose those people wouldn't be shown on TV, would they?
	Well, no, well, hold on.
	I've seen the psychics at work in stage shows with no cameras there.
	It's the same thing.
	No one comes through and says, why is this...
	Why aren't they ever pointing out that this reality is not what we think it is?
	That must be the first thing you'd communicate to your loved ones, shouldn't it?
	From some other reality? But they don't.
	And my question has been, why?
	And, you know, I've seen one-to-one psychic...
	Situations. So there was one with a Muslim guy, young guy, and his father came through, so the psychic said, and he seemed very accurate about his father.
	And his father was telling him to, you know, continue with your religion and all that stuff.
	So I thought you were on another dimension.
	Why aren't you pointing out that actually this is an illusion that we're living?
	And you're being manipulated, son.
	You know, wake up, look at the bigger picture.
	But that never comes through in these things.
	And, you know, like I say, it's not whether a psychic or a channeler is connecting with something.
	The question is, what are they connecting with?
	And I'm not saying that in general, like everybody, but, you know, because there are those that bring through some really, really expanded stuff.
	They're obviously getting way out there.
	You know, as I point out in this book, The Trap, you know, this level of the simulation is not the only level of the simulation.
	There are others. There are after-death levels of this simulation.
	And the manipulation is not just happening in this reality, it's happening in other realities.
	I go into this in some detail.
	That's very interesting. I look forward to that book.
	I mean, I'm an astrologer and psychic.
	I sent you my book. I don't know whether you received it.
	Well, I dabble in a bit of numerology and astrology myself.
	But it's interesting because one thing I was going to mention was that during the COVID era, I got very confused as to why a lot of the psychics and channelers weren't seeing through the COVID hoax.
	Yeah, I was very surprised and very disappointed with a lot of spiritual leaders as well.
	That is such a good point.
	But, you know, let's put it this way.
	Say there are other levels of the simulation that still entrap out-of-body consciousness in a sense of illusory reality.
	And, you know, you look at the various cultures.
	They talk about this in their various different ways.
	And there are areas of the esoteric arts that talk about, like, the ring past not.
	And then you've got reincarnation, where you keep having to reincarnate on a planet the size of a pinhead compared with a billionth of a pinhead compared with the projected size of the universe to evolve and stuff like that.
	And I'm not saying reincarnation is real.
	It is. My question is, how do we have to do it?
	And so, if you are still within levels of the simulation, and the psychic is tapping into those levels, which is like, you know, he's saying, glad you got that job, etc., then they're not going to give you expanded information about what the hell's going on, because they will know. No more than we know here because they're in a different reality.
	But they won't know the big picture because they're also caught in the illusion.
	So when you're a channeler or a psychic and you're getting beyond the simulation, then you're tapping into these levels that are not influenced by it and not controlled by it and not impacted by it.
	And then you get your big insights.
	So it's like I say, I'm not knocking esoteric arts.
	I'm the last person in the world to do that.
	I'm saying that it's sensible for people to ask, who or what am I connecting with?
	And even accuracy, and I explained this in the trap, what I mean and the background to it, even accuracy is not necessarily confirmation that the source is as your best address at heart.
	The question is, does the information impact in a positive way on someone's life?
	Does it impact in a positive way on society?
	Does it expand our understanding of our predicament, our situation?
	Does it expand their understanding of how we get out of it?
	I mean there's no black and white on anything but that's there are good
	questions to ask to ascertain how far out you're getting and whether you are
	breaching the walls of this manipulation or whether you are connecting with
	elements within the walls of this manipulation not all of them in physical
	bodies.
	I'm sorry I think I lost you there for a second.
	So one of the things I was going to say was Oh my god, I've lost it as well.
	Was it related to what he was just talking about?
	Yeah, because he cut out, I didn't see it.
	I lost my train of thought.
	But it was connected to what you were saying.
	I'm looking forward to getting that book, The Trap, because that's very, very interesting to me in terms of the content that's going to be in there.
	So I'm a professional tarot reader.
	I work with cards as well as astrology.
	And he's been on Iconic as well.
	I've been on Iconic. I've done some work with Richard Willett a few times, a few shows with him.
	We've interviewed Gareth as well.
	But we didn't do his cards or anything.
	I think what I was going to say was, in terms of the astrological systems, I combine Chinese and Western astrology together.
	And you, in the Chinese systems, you are the dragon.
	And in the Western system, you're Taurus.
	When those two signs come together, it's actually the spiritual messenger.
	And you have the same chart as Wayne Dyer.
	Do you remember Wayne Dyer who passed away?
	I remember. Yeah.
	And his famous thing was about seeing...
	Believing is seeing. When you believe it, you'll see it.
	That was the name of one of his big books.
	And you say something very similar to that.
	And there's other examples of people who have your chart who are kind of pioneers when it comes to this sort of thought movement thing.
	Even Freud was your chart, believe it or not.
	Do you have my book?
	It's called Secrets of the Combined Astrology.
	I brought it to you when you were in the Isle of Wight.
	When we came to see you in the Isle of Wight 2016, we left you a copy.
	I don't know whether you received it. Yeah, well, I would have read it if you gave it to me, yeah.
	But it's interesting what you say about the tarot, you see, because I mentioned this in the trap.
	It's an astrology.
	There's your astrology in the morning newspaper, and there's astrology that goes deep into the nature of Of a person's energetic field impacted by the movement of the planets, etc. And they're impacted on the field as they move.
	That's how I see astrology anyway.
	It's impacting on this field, therefore impacting on us.
	And so there's that, the morning newspaper astrology, and then there's the science of astrology, right?
	And they are not the same thing, obviously.
	Yeah. And it's the same with the tarot cards.
	You know, there is the science of tarot.
	And then there is this is a general reading may not resonate with it, you know, and which is which is not person specific, energetic field specific.
	And that, for me, is the morning paper astrology.
	It's different levels of it.
	And I do think, I mean, I'm sure you've come across this.
	There are so many people, I think, out there that talk to, say they're tarot card readers, say they're astrologers, but they don't really grasp the nature of the art.
	And that's not good to be manipulative.
	I do, you know, see From time to time, tarot card readers and psychics and stuff like that.
	It's all part of my research, and I've seen tarot card readers, and they've been absolutely fantastic.
	And I saw one the other week, just as I was passing.
	It was in a market, actually.
	And I thought, oh, tarot card reader, let's see what they get.
	And the guy was absolutely useless.
	But they're both called tarot card readers, you see.
	And it's like, you know, I'm connected with so-and-so out there.
	I mean, it's this taking for granted, taking as read, without question.
	The questions have to be asked at every level.
	Whether it's Klaus Schwab telling you the truth, well, you know the answer to that, he's not.
	But whether it's an authority saying this is how things are and not questioning it, or whether it's a psychic connecting with some Entity or energy that they save without questioning it.
	The questions have to be asked because we are in a realm of massive, multi-dimensional manipulation, actually.
	And therefore, if we're going to get a fix on it, we have to be streetwise and questioning and not just accept things on face value.
	If they come from me, people didn't accept them because it's going to come from me.
	They should see...
	How that plays out and makes sense to them.
	Whether what I've said before, and it's happened, put that into the mix as well.
	But don't just take what anyone says on face value.
	Questioning it. Question it.
	It doesn't matter whether it's the esoteric arts or a conspiracy researcher.
	It all needs to be questioned.
	And in the end, ourselves, our individual self, It has to come to our individual, unique conclusion on how we see the world.
	The problem is, or the goal of the cult is, to give everyone the same perception.
	We may all be an expression of one consciousness, but we're unique expressions of it.
	And celebrating your uniqueness is not It's kind of denying that we're all one.
	It's celebrating it.
	But we are unique expressions of oneness.
	We're not clones of oneness.
	And that's the difference.
	Expressing your individuality and your uniqueness is one of the great ways to express spirituality, in my view.
	That's amazing. That's really hit me, that has.
	Because I've kind of always struggled with the whole, we're all one.
	But then I'm What am I supposed to do with that?
	Does that mean I kind of...
	Spiritually, I understand that I'm connected to everybody else, but then what about my uniqueness?
	What about my individuality?
	So I love that.
	I get to express that, and through that, I'm still one.
	Yeah, and you get to be proud of our uniqueness as well, because as you said earlier, we're programmed to think, little me, I have no power, but what you're saying is very empowering.
	The thing is that if we are, and I suggest we are, Infinite awareness experiencing itself.
	If you're experiencing yourself, you're not going to experience yourself being the same.
	You're going to experience through the same way of experiencing.
	You're going to experience through all your different expressions.
	And those different expressions, because they've had different experiences, are going to be unique.
	They're going to have a unique way of seeing things.
	And this is the thing, you know.
	It's encompassing the paradox.
	What people seem to think is that there's only one way of looking at anything, but there's not.
	The paradox being that you can say something and then you can say that you see something a certain way and someone else can see something a certain way, the same thing a certain way, and it's a different way.
	So one must be right and one must be wrong.
	No. It's the point of observation.
	That you are perceiving something.
	It will look one way to you and it will look one way to someone else.
	But it doesn't mean that one's right and one's wrong.
	It's just a different way. You know, there's so many different ways of looking at the same thing.
	And what we're seeing and what's interesting is if this cult wants it, then it's an inversion of how things are, right?
	So what this cult wants, and we're coming back to this censorship, it wants everyone to look at everything the same way.
	That's why it wants to censor information that would get you to look at things another way.
	It just wants you to look at that way and think that's how things are.
	So you've got this woke mentality that if you question it in any way, or not even question it, but just have a different view to it, it gets vehement and hostile.
	Because it's trying to police you into seeing it the way it sees it.
	It's programmed to see it, actually.
	And so when you've got a system that wants you to see things, everyone to see things in the desired way, you know that actually that's an inversion because it's all an inversion in this reality.
	That's an inversion of how things really are, which is that everything, if you have an infinite possibility, Then there's infinitely possible ways of looking at the same thing.
	And they don't have to be right or wrong.
	You're just looking at it from a different angle.
	Oh, yeah. Well, you can look at it this way.
	It looks like that. Yeah. And it actually does look like that.
	You're not wrong. But you look like this.
	And it looks like this.
	And it's different to how you see it.
	But what I'm seeing isn't wrong either.
	It's just a different way of looking at it.
	And, you know, it's seeing the paradoxes are not necessarily wrong.
	It's not that you've got a right or wrong, therefore this paradox.
	It's just you're looking at it in a different way, and both are right from the point of view that you're looking at them.
	Do you know about that whole, is a particle, is a particle is a wave?
	There's that thing as well, that the way that you come to observe the atom or the molecule is It's how it's going to be perceived.
	So if you're going to come to it expecting to see a wave, it'll be a wave.
	If you come to it expecting it to be a particle, it'll be a particle.
	So it could be that. At the very same time, somebody's going to come at something expecting it to be a particle and seeing it.
	And at the other end, somebody's going to expect it to be a wave and see the very same thing as something different.
	The way that you expect matters.
	Yeah. My own view on that is that everything's a wave form.
	Everything in this reality is wave form.
	And so there are scientists who I've said over the years that, and actually it's becoming more and more, you know, more and more people are kind of going down this road.
	It's not the majority, nothing like, but it's going down this road.
	But the reality that we see only exists when we're looking at it.
	So, you know, in these pantomimes at Christmas in England, They have this sequence in all of them where someone comes on the stage and all the kids and everything are in the audience.
	He comes on the stage and then some monster or something comes behind him, right?
	And the kids are shouting to the guy, he's behind you, right?
	And so what the guy does, he's behind me.
	And he goes round.
	And as he goes round, the monster or whatever it is stays behind him.
	So wherever he looks, he can't see him.
	And he goes, he's behind you.
	Well, he's not behind me. I've looked.
	He's not behind me. And the particle waveform thing is like that.
	And the reality thing is like that.
	Because it's a simulation, the computational power necessary for everything to be in place all the time is absolutely fantastic.
	There's no need for it. You know, when you're experiencing a virtual reality game, That which becomes real to you becomes real when you're experiencing it, when you're basically decoding it.
	The rest of the time, when you're not actually decoding it, it's electronic codes and programs.
	And then when you look at it, it becomes what you've decoded it into, like an experience or a happening or whatever.
	And it's like when you're watching a DVD. The DVD that's on the screen, the part that's on the screen is only when the laser's reading it.
	When the laser's not reading it, it's just a DVD of encoded information.
	So when we are decoding this reality, which we do through the body senses, we're decoding it when we're observing it.
	The act of observing it In my view, it triggers the transformation of the waveform into this holographic form, particle form if you want, that we experience.
	But when we're not experiencing it, when we're not observing it, it goes back to waveform.
	Because it's behind you, if you observe it, you're decoding it, you never see the waveform that's behind us.
	Holographic reality that we are actually decoding.
	So, for instance, I say in the books, you know, does a falling tree make a noise?
	Answer, only if you hear it.
	And it's the same principle.
	So the basis of a tree, the foundation of a tree, a so-called physical tree, is a waveform field.
	And when we observe the tree, we decode that wave field into the holographic tree we call a tree.
	And so when a tree falls on a waveform level, it's a waveform passing through the field, the waveform field that I've been talking about.
	And it creates a disturbance.
	Now, if someone's there, Their hearing process will pick up that disturbance and it will turn the frequency disturbance into electrical signals, send them to the brain, and the brain will decode that as the sound of a tree falling.
	But if no one's there to make that decoding process happen, nobody's there to hear it, then a falling tree doesn't make a noise because it's just waveform falling through waveforms.
	So would you encourage people to look at reality more from the quantum perspective?
	Would you encourage people to look more at reality as an energetic sea of information and vibration and waveform as opposed to just see it in its material form?
	Well, you see, it's like Where are you coming from?
	If you see it only as a physical world, a holographic world in effect, then you're seeing part of the picture.
	And if you self-identify with being that body as the person that you are experiencing, then you will go into a realm of limitation.
	But if you, at the same time, See yourself as waveform energy and consciousness.
	Okay, well, that's true.
	But we're also experiencing a human body, right?
	We're experiencing a human experience.
	So the two both have to be recognized.
	We're kind of back in a way to what we were talking about earlier.
	So if you identify only with the waveform, Then you can escape from the reality of the body and what the body is experiencing.
	But actually the body is experiencing it because you're experiencing it.
	The two are the same thing.
	So it's actually for me about encompassing the two to experience and to enjoy the experience and to enjoy the senses of the physical while knowing it's an experience.
	And it's not the ultimate, infinite I, and that you are something far greater than you have been told you are, that you're just a human, basically a cosmic accident, who's having a brief human experience and then, you know, either judged by God or lights out.
	It's just an experience.
	So it's encompassing the two.
	It's not denying either.
	But it's realizing what the true I is.
	And realizing that this level of it is an experience which the true I is actually having.
	And whatever happens to us, however bad it gets or not good it gets, whatever, we're always a state of infinite awareness on an infinite journey of exploring forever, forever.
	That's as bad as it gets.
	And some of the experiences will be nice and some of them won't be.
	But it's just an experience and there'll be another one along in a minute.
	And I know in my life, you know, there have been times when you think, well, I can't go forward from here.
	It's over. And then suddenly something happens and you go on and you do things you never thought was possible.
	So it's just an experience.
	And if we realize that, that it's not the be-all and end-all of everything and that we are the consciousness, the eternal consciousness that's just having a brief experience, it doesn't Just take the edge off the stress and the emotion of a human life when you realise it's just a brief experience.
	It's not who you really are.
	Yeah. No, I love that.
	I love the way you put it as you have to have a balance between both, both the body and the waveform world, if you like.
	Yeah. Well, you know, I can move seamlessly between the deep esoteric conversation and how did Leicester City get on today?
	You can do that!
	I think we do, yeah.
	One second we're talking spiritual stuff and the next second we're talking about food or whatever.
	David, we've got one more.
	Sorry, carry on. Experience is an experience.
	That's what gives you the balance.
	You can enjoy it. How did Leicester City get on today?
	But you know you're something greater.
	That's the thing. Yeah.
	I was going to say, we've got one more question, which we wanted to ask, one big question, which is about narcissism and it being a widespread problem.
	Do you think it's come from the elites?
	Are they encouraging narcissism, manipulating our society so that it's a widespread problem?
	Because it seems like it's both on a micro level and on a macro level, it's a big issue.
	Yeah, I think it is. And I think it is manipulated.
	And, you know, narcissists tend to be insecure people for a start.
	I mean, go a step further.
	Anyone that wants to have control over others is an insecure person.
	So what we're dealing with with this cult and the expressions of the cult in the people that bought his program are very, very insecure people.
	Because you show me a control freak and I'll show you an insecure person.
	Because secure people don't want to control others.
	They have no need to control others or desire to control others.
	People that want to control others are people who have an insecurity so great that they want to control everything.
	To pander to their insecurity.
	So this cult, for instance, I've studied them now for 32 years.
	They are terrified and deeply kind of dismayed by states of flux, states of flux where they can't call the outcome.
	See, control freaks always want to control the outcome because of their insecurity.
	And so if you look at a football analogy, this cult would not be at peace with controlling one football team.
	Because it would influence the outcome.
	It wouldn't control it. It wants to control the outcome before the outcome starts.
	So it would want to control both sides and the referee.
	So it would know the score before the game kicked off.
	That's where it's coming from, because it's insecure.
	There are reasons for this insecurity, which I go into in the books.
	So anyone who's a control freak and a narcissist who wants to manipulate someone else to their will using the various psychological techniques that narcissists do, He's a deeply, deeply insecure and disturbed person.
	Same with a psychopath and sociopath.
	These are disturbed people.
	And therefore, if you want to create a nation or a human race that disturb people, then you want narcissists and psychopaths and sociopaths.
	And the system is turning them out now by the score.
	And it's this me, me, me mentality.
	How does this affect me?
	What does this mean for me?
	Instead of what does this mean for the good?
	What does this mean for what's right rather than what's right for me?
	I think it's right for me.
	What's right? What's the right thing to do?
	A narcissist is constantly saying, what is the best outcome for me?
	What do I have to do to get what I want?
	How do I manipulate this person so they do what I want them to do?
	That's what narcissists are doing.
	And it's the me-me mentality.
	The whole woke mentality is me-me-me.
	And yet, if you come from the heart, then you want what's right for the greater good.
	You don't want win-lose situations.
	You want win-win situations.
	And you want things to be just and fair.
	You know, if you look at someone in abject poverty, Then that's unfair.
	That's unfair because often people are in abject poverty because they don't want to work.
	It's because of the situation they're in.
	So that's not fair. So you want fairness.
	But someone with a lot of money that has it scammed from them, well, that's not fair either, right?
	So you're looking at fairness and justice in any situation and not influencing it by Yeah, but how does the outcome benefit me?
	Well, maybe it doesn't.
	But maybe it's the fair thing that it doesn't.
	And narcissists are the opposite to that.
	And, you know, I've known narcissists over the years and I've seen how they work.
	And they are deeply, first of all, they are deeply, deeply unhappy people.
	That's why they do what they do.
	But they are turning them out in greater numbers yet.
	The other thing about a narcissist and great numbers, of course, is This is how I want it to be.
	This is how it must be to suit me.
	And one expression of that is anyone that has a different view from me and therefore would want to do things differently in a way that doesn't suit me, well, I must destroy them.
	Instead of saying, well, this is what I want, but they have a right to have their opinion as well.
	The narcissist won't do that.
	It's a one-track mind.
	And that's what you see in the woke mentality all the time, these one-track minds.
	They're extraordinary. It's mental illness.
	It is. Can I quickly tell you a story that happened?
	I was part of a queer choir, and these people were my friends.
	I thought they were my friends. And what happened, I mean, it's a queer choir, so there's going to be lots of woke people there.
	But this was back in 2018, 2019, where I didn't know so much about the woke It was there but without a name, I guess.
	And what happened was there was a narcissistic person in the group who basically was bad-mouthing me to other people and just ended up getting me outcast because I defended Jordan Peterson when he was talking about the trans thing.
	And I said, well, you know, because they tried to make him out to be some sort of misogynist and I said, he's not that.
	I said, have any of you read any of his books?
	None of them had, of course.
	But they were going by the perception in the mainstream media of what Jordan Peterson was like.
	And I just said, that's A, not who he is.
	And B, if you listen to what he's saying, he's making very valid, rational points about the whole pronouns.
	I was kicked out of that queer choir, which is all about diversity, by the way.
	It was set up for diversity.
	And me being South Asian, Kashmiri, gay, Muslim, all that stuff meant nothing.
	I was kicked out by a white guy, white gay guy, because I was transphobe, apparently.
	Yeah, well, that's the way it works.
	And, you know, I have a simple philosophy on life, you know, do what you like so long as you don't impose it on anyone else.
	The problem is that people have a view, they have a perception, and they want to impose on everyone else.
	Well, why? We live within all possibility.
	Your perception is only one possibility.
	And so if we were all at peace with I have a right to say what I think, and you have a right to say what you think, and we have a right to disagree.
	Then everyone, we have the free flow of information, and we don't have the conflict.
	We might have debate.
	Yes. Well, I think this, because of this, I do explain that.
	But you don't have the conflict.
	You certainly wouldn't say, I'm going to throw this person out of the choir because they have a difference between me.
	That's ridiculous. And see, again, I've been talking about this for such a long time.
	This world is, and it's systematically, inverted.
	And so you have a situation that appears to be when the opposite is the case.
	So you've got a lot of the woke stuff now.
	He's talking about saving democracy.
	What they're actually doing is destroying it.
	So they want diversity, but they don't want diversity.
	They want uniformity, but they're calling it diversity.
	You know, if you really believe in diversity, you want diversity of opinion.
	That's how we learn from each other.
	We don't learn from each other by having the same opinion, but by people having different opinions and challenging existing opinions on the basis of evidence so that we say, well, actually, you've got a bloody good point there.
	I'm going to change the way I see that.
	But if that conversation is not taking place, you've got uniformity.
	But it's like the old Orwellian thing, you know, like The ministry of truth is the ministry of destroying the truth.
	It's all inversion.
	And so diversity, equity, equity.
	I love that one. Equity.
	We need equity. But that's not equality.
	For me, we need equality of opportunity.
	And then what people do with that opportunity is up to them.
	We need equality of opportunity.
	No, we must favor certain groups.
	But that's racism.
	You know, if you're against racism, and I think racism is absolutely ludicrous, because you know where I'm coming from.
	It's a vehicle for experience, no matter what color it is.
	Ridiculous. But if you're against racism, then you do not introduce race into any conversation.
	In terms of what people say and what people do, you say, this is their opinion.
	This is their opinion.
	Not this is the opinion because of the color of their skin and this is their opinion because of the color of their skin.
	This is their opinion.
	It's like, you know, the white people are the problem.
	OK, white supremacy.
	All right. All right. So what about the white people sleeping in the streets of San Francisco?
	I mean, is that white superiority?
	It's ridiculous. What about the black people who are billionaires and the black people who are lying next to the white people in San Francisco in the frickin' street?
	You know, to define things by race instead of justice and fairness is racism because you are seeing race as a prime thing instead of the actual Person behind the body.
	But if you want to divide and rule society and set it at war with itself, you want to divide and rule on the basis of race.
	This is why Black Lives Matter is funded by white billionaires.
	Why would they do that?
	Do you think George Soros cares about black people?
	He couldn't care less. Or transgender people.
	He's also funding those groups as well.
	I mean, he couldn't care less.
	So why is he doing it?
	Because it's all about dividing and rule.
	Once you start perceiving race and looking at someone on the basis of their race, whether you're looking at a black person and saying, I'm against them because they're black, or a white person, I'm against them because they're white, what you're doing is you're absolutely 100% body-centric.
	You are absolutely in the five senses.
	Because you're seeing only that level of reality and not the consciousness, all different aspects of the same consciousness that are experiencing through those ones.
	And if people believe in reincarnation, I do think it's real.
	I think there's a hell of a lot more to know about it, which is what I talk about in the book.
	But then, you know, Someone is experiencing a white body now would have experienced a black body in another place or an Asian body in another place, you know, another time in the cycle.
	And it's all crazy, you know.
	And this is the thing. I made this point quite a long while ago.
	It's the matter of the consciousness, the state of consciousness.
	So if you're a bigot, etc., Then if you're a white body, in a white body, you'll be a white bigot.
	If you're a black, you'll be a black bigot.
	You'll be an Asian bigot. Exactly.
	It's not the colour of your skin.
	You're a bigot, right?
	It's the colour of your consciousness.
	And they come in all shapes and sizes and colours and everything.
	Of course they do. But why people don't see that is beyond me.
	Because they're body-centric.
	They're body-centric.
	Someone has a black ancestry going back to Africa.
	So in the mentality of some people, that puts them down or they can't be very bright or they're African and they've come out of the jungle and all that stuff.
	And they're probably looking at a very bright, intelligent human being, but they're influenced by their perception of the five-sense level.
	In other words, the body and the body history and all that stuff, instead of just seeing The consciousness.
	I don't see black people and white people and Asian people.
	I see consciousness. I see the consciousness that shines through those people.
	And in all those people.
	In all those different types.
	I've said years and years ago.
	Show me any group of people.
	Any racial group.
	Any sexual group.
	Show me any of them. And I'll show you.
	Nice people. I'll show you okay people, and I'll show you psychopaths.
	Every single group has them all because it's not the body, it's the consciousness working through the body
	that decides who they are, not the color of their skin, which is a ludicrous childlike way of judging people.
	Sorry, I'll go for a second.
	Choose the last one.
	We've got one last question, which is kind of a light one.
	So we just wanted to know what inspires you and do you have any favourite books or movies that inspired you?
	What inspired me was what I started to connect to and how it influenced my view of the world and The direction of my life.
	I've read many, many different books and, you know, you take bits from lots of them.
	But in the end, you can read all the books you like, but it should be you that decides what bits you take and what bits you don't to form your own unique view of everything.
	You know, I wouldn't say influenced, but I've been enlightened by many, many, many, many books.
	You know, when I was at school, I was born in 1952, I didn't really care for school much.
	I used to go to school.
	I mean, I enjoyed a lot of it because I used to go to school, be with my mates and play football.
	But I didn't really take on board the education side of it.
	I actually never took a major exam in my life.
	I left school at 15 to be a soccer player.
	I was in my 20s before I read a book from start to finish.
	I had less educational programming to work through as I Because I didn't take a lot of it on.
	So it was a novel, a very simple novel that I read in my, I don't know, about 22, 23, from start to finish, the first book.
	And then once I had my awakening in 1990, gee, I mean, I was vociferous.
	One book would end, another one would start, a book would end, another one would start.
	I just read phenomenal amounts of books.
	What was a novel? You read them and you take what feels right and you leave the rest.
	So it's all like bits, really.
	And what you also get, I talk about this in The Trap, because the first two, three chapters are biographical for various reasons, that you start to see the signs of when You call it synchronicity, whatever you like, is putting something in front of you.
	Now, I've learned the science over the years.
	I've had a lot of experience in doing it because I've been doing it full time.
	It's when, for instance, and this has happened so many times to me since 1990, a subject will enter your life and you think, oh, that's interesting.
	And then from that moment on, lots and lots of examples and expressions of that subject come into your life very, very fast.
	And it's like something saying, look at this now, look at this now.
	And so I've also been, if you like, for want of a word, guided to many books.
	And not only just guided to books, but even guided to pages in books that actually say, you know, just whatever you can get on one page and you think, well, just what I needed to read.
	So there is this other force and everyone tap into it.
	This is not, you know, This is me being on the mountain or under the tree.
	It's open to everybody.
	There is a force which, if you tap into it, it's guiding you to enlightenment.
	It's guiding you to see the trap that we're in and how we get out of it.
	That's how I was led to your work.
	Because it was just after December the 21st.
	2012 so it was around early 2013 and I was just you know in my room relaxing and then I got this thought form David Icke and it was it was it wasn't like a voice but it was more of a thought form.
	I know exactly what you mean.
	And so I thought oh that's interesting because I'd heard of you in my younger years but I just never thought much about it and obviously I heard about you know What happened on TV. So I went with that thought form and I decided to look you up on YouTube and then I watched your talks and I was like, this is amazing, wow!
	And from then on my life has changed.
	That's a great example of how there are other forces at work.
	Are all of them other forces, or are they other levels of the same consciousness that we are, but actually beyond the five senses, right?
	Because there's the five senses that's locked into this reality, and it's subject to all this information coming from this reality to keep you in this reality, and then there's other levels of you.
	When you open up to them, you get fed things like this.
	You get guided through the maze.
	It is amazing, you know?
	You know, I've used this analogy before.
	You know, the five senses are paddling down the river in a canoe and they're perceiving life as far as the next turn in the river.
	But other levels of them are seeing the whole river from source to sea.
	And what they perceive situations as is very different to what the five senses see them as.
	So you're paddling down the river and you spring a league.
	And you paddle across to the shore and you sit there cussing and feeling sorry for yourself and saying, that's diabolical.
	What luck! What luck that is!
	I was trying to get around the so-and-so by nightfall.
	And then someone comes across to you and says, oh, hey, mate, you were so frickin' lucky.
	You said there's a big waterfall around that corner.
	Now, another level of you sees that.
	You see the waterfall symbolically.
	And so it says, well, I'm going to make sure you don't go across that waterfall.
	So we sprung a leak.
	And to you, the five senses, that's a terrible thing.
	But actually, from that level, it's exactly what needed to happen.
	And it's part of understanding life and flowing with life is to see these two levels in context that, for instance, If you've got a life plan and you are tapping into it, then that life plan is going to happen, right?
	Now, how it happens here in the level of the five senses and the physical experience, you know, you might have this challenge or that challenge, this might go wrong, that might go wrong, but in the end, you are going to get to where that life plan is taking you.
	You're going to get there. And it's knowing you're going to get there That puts your daily experience into some context where you're thinking, well, I don't like what's happening.
	I'd rather it not be happening, but I know I'm going to get there in the end.
	I know I'm going to get there.
	I know it's inevitable I'm going to get there as long as I keep tapped in and I keep following that guidance.
	I know things are going to turn out in the end better than they are.
	I know that. And how we get there, collectively, that we're going to have, you know, down times, up times, we're going to have challenges and stuff, and they're going to throw everything at us like machine gun fire in this couple of years.
	But it's knowing that despite all what goes on here, that outcome is already written in stone.
	And it makes the daily challenges much more easy to take.
	Well, amazing. Thank you so much, David.
	I mean, we're just so...
	Well, we're so privileged and honoured to have spoken to you and we thank you for your time.
	We're so grateful that you made time for us and we love you!
	We love you so much! I love going into this stuff and, you know, not just talking about Bill Gates, but going into this deeper stuff.
	That's my passion, that stuff. Can I tell you about Bill Gates?
	Can I tell you something about astrology, right?
	I haven't said this very often, but There's a dictator chart.
	There's Chinese, you have the ox and there's Taurus, right?
	We've got Hitler who's on the cusp of that with Aries, Aries Taurus cusp.
	Saddam Hussein, Napoleon, Wellington, Machiavelli, even Pol Pot is an ox Taurus, right?
	These are obvious dictatorial types.
	Now, there's also the opposite, right?
	So the opposite of ox is sheep.
	Opposite of Taurus is Scorpio.
	Guess what Bill Gates is?
	Sheep with Scorpio. So it seems like what they're doing is they're going from this overt dictatorial regime over to like a More communist, more sort of indirect, as you say, the technocracy.
	It seems like there's 144 charts.
	So what are the chances that that's what would happen?
	And it's just very interesting to me.
	And I could tell you a million different stories like this.
	For example, there's a whistleblower chart.
	Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, the Dalai Lama, Corey Feldman, all these people that are speaking out are Chinese Year of the Boer and Cancer together.
	So there's all these patterns when it comes to mixing Chinese and Western astrology together.
	Your chart, that book I wrote came out in January 2016.
	I found out about you in May 2016.
	And if you read your chart, it's like I've written it about you.
	It's very interesting, all this stuff.
	Well, that's fascinating.
	But, you know, I do talk about astrology in this book, The Trap.
	And in many ways...
	It does express the simulation.
	Astrology is a great way of reading the simulation in many ways.
	It's why people who have certain astrological charts, they actually have certain roles to play.
	I don't think that's an accident within a simulation.
	I think it's expressing it.
	So, you know, if you're coming in at a certain time in the cycle and you want to actually do something, you come in to do something, whether it's negative or positive, then you want the astrological energies flowing with you, not against you, don't you? You'll come in at a certain time to give you what you need to do negative things or to give you what you need to do positive things.
	And it's...
	Again, it's a simulation if you look at it that way, but it's where do I come in to get most benefit from the simulation to do what I want to do?
	If you want to try to make a difference from a spiritual point of view, you don't come in with a psychopath's chart.
	It's like everything.
	I've talked to astrologers over the years who've They told me that they're on the retainer list for major CEOs.
	Because these people, these cultists, they bloody well know astrology is impacting upon us.
	They just don't want us to know.
	That's why I kind of dismiss it.
	But it is absolutely impacting on us.
	And if you want to settle out to sea, if you want to paddle out to sea, you don't want the tide coming in, do you?
	You don't want the tide going with you.
	This is why astrology can be so beneficial if you've got someone who knows what they're talking about.
	Because it can be very, very helpful.
	I want to send you your full chart, if that's okay.
	Okay. If you're interested, I'll send you your full chart.
	But we're going to say thank you one more time and say we love you and we love the work that you're doing.
	If we can help in any way, please let us know.
	I'm in touch with Jamie and, well, more Gareth than Jamie, but if we can help in any way, we would love to.
	Yeah, we love the work that you do and we're huge fans of you and the whole Ike family and we think that what you're doing for the planet and for people is wonderful.
	And this is an absolute honour, just speaking to you.
	That's very kind, but don't diminish what you're doing as well.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you. Lots of love to you.
	Yeah, okay. Well, and thank you all for watching here at Heart Nation.
	At Heart Nation and Zachary Ideal Podcast and we'll see you next time.
	Bye! Stage one, you create a problem. It could be a manufactured virus.
	You want a reaction and you want them to either say, do something, or you want them to accept what the authorities suggest must be done.
	So one of the agendas is to massively cull the population.

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