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March 5, 2021 - David Icke

02:04:52

Challenging The Narrative - David Icke & Richard Grannon

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	So, let's get started.
	Many thanks!
	This is a video about the new version of the game. It's a bit different from the original version. The new version of
	the game is a bit more interesting. I think it's a good thing. I hope you enjoy it!
	And we are live!
	Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us today.
	I'm very pleased to be able to welcome Mr.
	David Icke to the show. Thank you for joining us today, David.
	Pleasure, mate. There's an awful lot for us to talk about over the next hour.
	I actually just got your book today.
	It just arrived in the Czech Republic a few hours ago, so I haven't had a chance to read it properly.
	But David's new book, The Answer is Out.
	I was pleased to see in one of the chapters, you actually quoted Peter Hitchens, who's under a lot of pressure at the moment, who said, is there any point in public debate in a society where hardly anyone has been taught how to think, while millions have been taught what to think?
	Are we in a post-debate society now, David?
	Oh, I think we're in a post-fact society.
	I think we're in a post-democratic society.
	And, you know, it's even more than that quote from Peter Hitchens because it's not about even being taught What to think.
	It's being taught not to think.
	That's the key.
	It's turning people into receptors and processes of the official narrative of everything.
	So there is no process of filtering that information, looking for other information to see if there's another way of looking at whatever the situation is, and coming to your own unique conclusions.
	We're seeing a real parting of the ways.
	It's become so focused and obvious since the turn of 2020 And that's the people who are using and are being encouraged by this horrific situation that's unfolded in the last year to actually reassess everything and say, well, hold on a minute. What is going on?
	And who's doing it? And then you've got this other group of people, a vast, vast number, that are going deeper and deeper into the reflex action acceptance of the official story of everything.
	And because the latter is where what I call the cult, the global cult, wants everyone to go, So you've got those that won't go there being increasingly demonized, marginalized and targeted.
	Not just with censorship, but of course that's the foundation of everything really.
	Because when you look at life, when you look at human society, the whole thing is based on perception.
	I've been saying all along that this global conspiracy to enslave humanity is a psychological operation.
	Because when there's a few of you compared with your target population, you can't control them physically.
	You can in certain areas.
	And where they want to go with this, connecting the human brain to AI, okay, they could do it then by...
	But again, it's the same thing by delivering perception direct through AI. But when there's a few and you want to control a very large number, without that ultimate situation of AI becoming a human mind, you have to control their perception by the information that they receive, because that's where we get perception from.
	We receive information. It might be a personal experience.
	It might be a... You know, posting on the internet, whatever.
	That information is what we use to glean our perceptions and form our perceptions.
	And the idea, and this is what all the censorship is about, is to so control that information that people never hear this is the goal.
	They never hear or see anything.
	That isn't the official narrative.
	And if that's the case, especially if you're dealing with younger people who have just arrived in the world, if you like, and don't have, like I do, I'm coming up 69, quite a long life of seeing how things were.
	I've got a radar To see how things are, because I know how things work.
	But if you're born into this situation now, and you are subject to being bombarded with the same narrative from all angles, there is a fantastic chance that your perceptions are going to mirror that narrative.
	And so we are now in a situation where pushing back on that narrative becomes more and more challenging because they don't want us around.
	One of the reasons, only one, why they're targeting old people is old people, those who've learned anything in their life, have that radar.
	What they want is a year zero in the end.
	Where people are manipulated and programmed in their perceptions from the earliest age.
	And then when all the ones with a bit of radar gone, that's what's left with no radar, only the narrative from the moment they were born.
	And so this is important.
	It's vital for this reason.
	From perception comes behavior.
	We behave as we do because we perceive as we do.
	When your perceptions change, you behave differently.
	So they know this inner core that understands how psychology works to a very deep level.
	They have to.
	It's the way they manipulate. They know that if they can control the perception of the target population, they will control behavior.
	And individual behavior from individual perception becomes collective behavior.
	And that's what we call human society.
	Human society is just collective behavior from collective perception.
	So this is the...
	This is the process.
	Control information, dictate perception.
	Through dictating perception, you dictate behavior, collective behavior, you're dictating human society.
	And so we are having this frenzy, this hysteria of censorship, because that's the world they want to create.
	So how successful do you think that this SIOP has been?
	Because sometimes I look online and I think, especially when it comes to the UK, but Europe in general, am I seeing a situation where British people have become masochistic submissives who hold, you know, just doing as they're told with blind obedience as some kind of a virtue?
	Or is that what seems to be the case, but beneath the surface, the majority of people aren't buying it?
	Do you think this is a successful operation or is it pretending to be?
	I think it's mixed.
	If you go back to the spring and the time of the first lockdown, I mean, I'd sussed it by then for a simple reason.
	I've been tracking these people for 30 years.
	I know how they work. I know their methods.
	I know what they want to do with society.
	And I could see at the start what they were playing out with this virus hoax was going to give them every opportunity and every potential to advance where they wanted to go very, very quickly, which is exactly what's happened.
	But I can completely understand Why people who haven't had that long period of tracking these people, where when they're told that there's a deadly virus and they're seeing people collapse in the street in China, I've yet seen anyone collapse in the street from the same virus in the West, funnily enough.
	I can understand why there's a mechanism A response mechanism, the survival mechanism, based on fear of not surviving, which can kick in.
	And the survival mechanism doesn't tend to contemplate for very long.
	It's much more reflex action.
	So it's like, My survival is threatened.
	What do I do? And what often happens in those situations, most of the time, is people then look outside of themselves for something to protect them from what they fear, their chance of not surviving.
	So when we had that combination of Fear of a deadly virus.
	And then the authorities coming in and saying the only way to protect from this, protect your family, is to accept mass house arrest.
	I could understand that at the start.
	And basically, there was a meek acceptance...
	of mass house arrest because of two states of perception back to the same thing again one perception was that there was a deadly virus and and we have to listen to the authorities to protect us from it so we do what they say that was the vast majority back in the spring of 2020 then there was another group smaller considerably smaller that actually was thinking There's something not right here.
	It doesn't feel right, but its perception was, but what are the consequences for me if I don't obey?
	And that left a much, much smaller group at that time that was saying, I can see it's a scam and I'm not cooperating with it.
	As the summer unfolded, It became clearer and clearer that this stuff about a deadly virus simply wasn't panning out.
	Whether it was a deadly virus they claimed to somehow naturally appeared from a bat or something, or whether some of the alternative media, or quite a lot of the alternative media, went where this was a A bioweapon released from a Wuhan bio lab.
	I looked at both of those things.
	I dismissed the natural thing straight away because over the decades I've seen that major, major things that happen in the world that give this cult incredible agenda advancement potential, they are never natural.
	Do natural events happen, which they take advantage of?
	Yes. But the major society changing ones?
	No way. That's natural.
	So they've made it happen.
	So I looked at the biolab and I was then saying, well, hold on a minute, for a number of other reasons, too.
	But where are the dead people for a bioweapon?
	And through the summer, the fear started to drop because what we were told was going to happen by this lunatic...
	Professor Neil Ferguson was not happening.
	And that group that was going, hold on a minute.
	Well, there's something not right here.
	That was starting to grow.
	And then when we've continued through 2020 and the same thing has unfolded, by the time we were getting to The end of 2020, this number of people that were saying, I'm not buying this any longer, was getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
	And at that point, I was saying, what we need to do is to get that group to go to the third group, which is, I can see it's not right, and I'm not cooperating with it.
	That's the game changer, that.
	So what happens?
	What they were losing at the end of 2020 was their key manipulating tool, fear.
	People weren't frightened of the virus anymore.
	Some were. Of course, they were still buying it.
	But more and more and more people We're not buying it and weren't frightened of it anymore.
	And they had another problem, which is that they would just about to roll this vaccine out, which was the big punchline of the manipulation, getting this vaccine.
	Well, it's not a vaccine. It's fake vaccine.
	It's medical procedure into everybody on the planet, as they said openly.
	So then along comes the variants.
	Now, when you look at the history of this so-called virus, it's never been shown to exist scientifically.
	It simply hasn't.
	So how do you get a variant from something that's not been shown to exist?
	When you break the original, alleged original down, all it is is a computer program.
	It's computer fiction.
	There's a... There's a document that was posted on the Centers for Disease Control website in America by 20 virologists who were describing how they concluded that the virus existed.
	And what they said quite openly, it was for other virologists, the.
	The article was that they found 37 base pairs of the genome of the virus,
	and then they used a computer program to fill in the other 30000.
	It's a computer program.
	So these variants are also computer programs just to enter all South African
	variant, and it's all to try to ramp up the fear even more.
	And so I guess that would have pulled a few back into the fold.
	But generally, people who bought it,
	hook, line and the other thing in the spring, I'm seeing those people now not
	buying it at all.
	And I do think that, as you mentioned, we don't see them on public display, not least there's this lockdown going on.
	And they've not moved to this crucial point where people stop cooperating.
	But in terms of the perceptual grip that the official narrative has, I think it is...
	Very tenuous now, compared to where it was in the spring of 2020.
	That's great news. Yeah, 100% agree that I've really seen a shift recently.
	And it'll be interesting to see how this government responds to that shift, because they seem, I can't say that they are, they seem to be making decisions as much on opinion polls and social media feedback as they are from any sort of Genuine scientific or medical basis, which that alone I think is dangerous.
	It's a really, really dangerous situation to be in.
	And it's led to them flip-flopping.
	Yeah, well, it's kind of flip-flopping.
	But, you know, it'd be interesting if we get deeper into this.
	I mean, one of the things that they...
	What they're doing is they're trying to rewire the psyche in the way that we talked about so that we become submissive.
	One of the major aspects of this is to delete self-respect.
	Self-respect is absolutely the biggest defence mechanism to individual sovereignty and uniqueness.
	Self-respect. Because self-respect will not allow itself to be treated in a way that's not respectful.
	They need to break that because once the self-respect has gone, what's left is submission.
	There's nothing left. If you look at every major change in the world, every overthrow of tyranny, it's been those with self-respect that have done it.
	It's those without will just follow whatever they're told to do and without question because they don't have self-respect.
	Do you think we've gone through Yuri Bezmenov's demoralisation procedure as he outlined it?
	I think massively in what we call the woke mentality, yes, 100%.
	And I feel sorry, funnily enough, for the woke mentality because I feel sorry for young people today because they're the most perceptually targeted generation in history because of all the The technology involved and so on.
	But what I was saying is that if you are given things that the government says they want you to do, and you look at it, And you think, yeah, you know, that makes sense to me.
	I'm going to go with that because I'm actually convinced that makes sense.
	Your self-respect is still intact because you're making the decision on the basis of information.
	Yeah. What they're doing, and this is why they're giving us nonsensical things to do that make no sense, that are completely contradictory, that are the opposite of what they claim is going to be the outcome and the reason for them.
	It's to bring us to this situation that you look at what you're told to do You can see it's a nonsense.
	You can see it's ridiculous, contradictory.
	It makes no sense, but you still do it.
	And at that point, you self-respect, Scott.
	And that's why when I'm going around, if I see something that's ludicrous in relation to all this, I will say so.
	And I won't just say so You know, with the people there or for the people there, I'll say it for my own benefit, because I'm not going to let the step-by-step transformation from my sense of normality to a new sense of normality happen.
	Because once normality becomes insanity, then there's been a big transformation and you're no longer the same psyche you were before because you're cooperating with insanity, often when you can see it's insanity.
	You know, I talk to people and I say, look, do you know what that mask is doing to you?
	And they say, oh no, but you know, you've got to do it because, you know, the authorities tell you and all that stuff.
	Well, you haven't got to do it.
	You may think, yes, I'm going to do it because it's, you know, what are the consequences if I don't?
	But you've still got the choice not to do it.
	You may have a choice you'd like to make and a choice that will be less hassle or more hassle that you'd rather not make.
	But don't anyone kid themselves they don't have a choice.
	And it's that choice...
	That dictates your sense of self-respect.
	Because once that's gone, like I say, only submission is left.
	And so many people in this other group that's not being inspired by what's happening in terms of understanding and awareness that the world's not like they thought it was, they are being crushed and humiliated.
	And that's the word. You know, I talk about self-respect.
	Humiliation. Do you remember that recently...
	The Chinese came out.
	They said, we're now doing anal swabs for COVID. Yep.
	That's all about breaking down self-respect and humiliating people.
	Yeah, you can travel, but give us access to your arse first.
	Yes. But you're free.
	You're free. Yeah, yeah.
	You know, so during this period since it all started, I've not worn a mask.
	I've not social distanced. I've gone out when I wanted.
	And I will do so.
	I will die before I wear a mask.
	Because that's an insult, A, to my self-respect, but also to my basic intelligence.
	You know, I'm being asked to wear a mask, which very clearly is going to damage my health, that is being given to me to psychologically dehumanize me, to literally make me faceless and to delete my sense of individuality.
	And how do I know that?
	Because In 1996, in America, I started investigating mind control, which I know you do a lot of research into, mind control and perception manipulation, particularly in relation to, at that time, MKUltra.
	And I met in America a very, very large number.
	In fact, I spoke at some of their conferences when I was in America in the 90s of people who were survivors of MKUltra, this horrific American, actually Canadian too, government military mind control operation involving the CIA and universities.
	It was horrific. It came out in the 70s and it was covered up.
	I mean, something came out, but...
	Not the full horror of it and the full scale of it.
	So I learned a great deal about the mind control techniques that were used on those people, individual mind control.
	And as I've observed The world since the turn of 2020.
	I'm seeing exactly those techniques being used on the population in general.
	It is. You've used the word already, mate.
	It's the PSYOP. That's what the whole thing is.
	And this is why, you know, I talk about There's no evidence that the virus exists.
	But, you know, you don't need a real virus.
	You don't need a real anything.
	You need the perception of it, the perception of its existence.
	Psyops are psychological operations.
	It's about manipulating perception to manipulate behavior.
	That's what it's all about. And I got contacted a few months ago.
	And she's written an article since put on the website by a lady called Cathy O'Brien who was in MKUltra.
	I met her for the first time in 1996 when I was starting to research all this.
	And she contacted me a few months ago just to point out that when she was in MKUltra, which she was from a very early age, about the age of six until she got out of it at the age, well, into her 30s, She had a daughter called Kelly that was born into captivity during the period in MKUltra.
	So Kelly, who I've also met, was under MKUltra from the day she was born, actually in the womb, because they do it there too.
	And the reason Kathy contacted me is to say that about these masks, they're making mandatory for all these people.
	Her daughter, she said, at the age of two or from the age of two, was forced to wear a mask.
	As part of her mind control.
	And she said it was for two major reasons.
	One, dehumanization and deleting a sense of individuality.
	But crucially, and this is a major, major part of what's going on with the masks, with the population in general, it was to deprive the brain of the oxygen that it needed.
	And we've had an expert in brain science come out in the last few months and say exactly the same, actually, that children and young people, because they're still in a development stage, require enormous amounts of oxygen to drive that, particularly the brain.
	And if you deprive the brain of oxygen in that development period, then it's not going to form correctly.
	And she was also saying that if this goes on, then we're going to see these kids and young people having things like Alzheimer's in their 30s.
	What she said fitted exactly with what Kathy O'Brien was telling me about her daughter, that they wanted to be able to rewire and arrest development of the brain as part of Kelly's mind control.
	And so they deprived her of oxygen by making her wear a mask.
	And so when the masks make no sense in terms of health, because the holes are bigger than viral particles anyway, much bigger if you even believe there's a virus, Then it makes no sense.
	But from the psychological point of view, it makes perfect sense.
	And who? Who was the person in Britain who was doing the rounds of the television interviews pushing mandatory masks?
	A lady who is an advisor in this scientific advisory group to the government, which is really driving it all, called Sage and another offshoot I'll come to in a second.
	And her name was Professor Susan Mikey.
	And she's not a professor of medicine.
	She's a professor of psychology.
	She is a behavioral scientist.
	And this SAGE organization that's advising the government on all these measures, and they'll be the similar thing in every other country, has an offshoot called SPY-B. And SPY-B is a behavior manipulation operation.
	And when you look at the so-called scientists involved in government advice, the number of psychologists in there is ridiculous because These measures, social distancing, lockdown, isolation, masks, are all part of the rewiring of human perception and human perception.
	Self-identity. Even as somebody with a background in psychology, I find it very sinister that these groups are made up of 80-90% psychologists.
	I would like them to be 100% epidemiologists and that's it.
	I just want people who study viruses, that's all.
	I don't see what psychologists have got to do with any of that.
	If you get deep into what a virus is, they won't have to study it for very long to realize the whole concept is nonsense.
	But anyway, you're absolutely right.
	I say it's in our face.
	It's in your face if you go looking for it.
	But of course, BBC and mainstream media are not going to tell you this is being driven by psychologists.
	But it is, because it is a perceptual transformation of the human psyche.
	Part of this also is destroying people's livelihoods so that they become dependent on the state.
	There's that famous line, when you've gotten by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.
	I've not heard that one before, but I might definitely use it.
	Yeah, but it captures it because I've been writing in the books for years about the plan for a guaranteed income.
	And that sounds good.
	I mean, I'm someone that doesn't believe that people should be allowed to drop below a certain basic level of income, at least, in a civilized society.
	So on the face of it, you think, oh, yeah, but that's not what it's about.
	What they tell you it's about is never what it's about.
	Never. Once you know that, when they tell you what it's about, you actually invert it or go and find out what it's really about because it's never what they tell you it's about.
	Neither is the guaranteed income.
	The plan all along has been to create a society, I call it the Hunger Games Society, where you have a pyramidal hierarchy.
	At the top, you've got a tiny, tiny, tiny few people.
	That hoard all the wealth and all the power.
	At the bottom, you've got the rest of humanity.
	And in between, you've got a police-military state, because they want to fuse the two, police-military state, to, as one of the reasons you're seeing troops still in Washington, D.C., and now they're saying they're going to stay until the autumn.
	This is this movement towards the militarization of law enforcement.
	In this Hunger Games society, you've got this middle strata of the police military state to impose the will of the few on the population and to stop the population rebelling against the few.
	But it's crucial to achieve that structure To destroy the independent livelihoods of the population.
	Because while they have those independent livelihoods, they're not dependent on you.
	So if they're not dependent on you, they're not controlled by you on the level of totality, which what comes through dependency.
	So this whole lockdown...
	Philosophy and imposition has been coldly calculated, not due with health, coldly calculated to destroy the independent livelihoods and income of the population, independent businesses, independent employment with those businesses.
	And this is why they lock down and then they pull it back, just take the kind of steam out of it and then go again.
	This is why they said, oh, no, Christmas is fine.
	You know, we'll be all right with Christmas.
	We're going to pull it back. And the restaurants and the bars and everything ordered all their Christmas stuff in, which they were going to need, and then it was pulled.
	It's systematically...
	Destroying independent livelihood and independent business.
	And now I've been writing about the guaranteed income for a long time, but now it's becoming almost mainstream.
	You're hearing it. There needs to be a guaranteed income because the jobs are going and AI is taking over, you know, a lot of what's left.
	So how are people going to live?
	Oh, guaranteed income. Oh, yes.
	Sounds good. It will be a business.
	Isn't this the issue with every time there's a socialist policy?
	It seems very kind, like you said, you know, not letting people fall below a certain level.
	It's a reasonable thing to do.
	But it's always a double-edged sword, isn't it?
	It's kind, but control is right there on the other side of that.
	Absolutely it is, because the guaranteed income will be a pittance.
	It will bring everyone down to the same level, which is what this is supposed to be, this Hunger Games Society.
	And it will come with strings.
	You only get it if you do as you're told.
	And by the way, if you don't want it, you want to get your own income, well, okay, where's the jobs now?
	We've destroyed them all. There was a situation in Australia where they announced that anyone on benefits...
	Who refused to have their children vaccinated according to the government's schedule of vaccinations.
	They were going to get their benefits cut.
	And this is a precursor to how this guaranteed income is supposed to work.
	And again, we're coming back to psychology all the time because when you have no other form of income except what the government gives you, then You are going to perceptually be not only Dependent on the government, you're going to become more and more subservient to the government.
	Basically, if you don't, you're not going to get what you need to survive in your family.
	They'll be the prison guards of tomorrow because the ego will have to make a post hoc justification for the submissive state that they're in and they'll have to tell themselves it's what they wanted and then they'll become virulent, hysterical, angry, irritated, defensively trying to justify the bad thing that they've done.
	Breach it in guilt mainly it will be.
	Yeah, you're absolutely right on that.
	It's one thing I've observed with quite a bit of the psychology of those that not only don't agree with those that were pushing back, but are vehemently hostile towards them.
	Because those that are pushing back on one level, there are many levels to it, but on one level, those who are pushing back are actually symbolically prodding people in the chest and saying, why are you being so submissive?
	Where's your self-respect?
	And of course, they don't want that.
	It's like, shut up.
	I don't want to hear it. And so it manifests as hostility to those people.
	When, you know, those that are questioning what's going on.
	I mean, this is the thing about I know you have absolutely rightly related what's going on collectively to the relationship between an abusive husband or partner or whatever, abusing the partner, because that's absolutely what's going on.
	And, you know, months ago I was equating this situation with Stockholm Syndrome.
	Where people are sitting there and they're watching their lives being destroyed.
	They're watching their children's lives being destroyed.
	They're watching their children's psyche unraveling.
	And they're watching their livelihood disappear.
	Often their business disappears.
	And yet...
	They are defending from challenge those who were doing that.
	That's Stockholm Syndrome.
	And it's also, you rightly point out, it's this collective version of an abusive relationship.
	And part of that, in an abusive relationship, I remember years ago, I was working for the BBC in Birmingham.
	I was a young reporter.
	And a story developed.
	It was quite a big story.
	It went on for a long time. And it was about a woman called Erin Pitsy, who was actually the wife of a well-known television journalist at the time.
	And she fronted up the exposure of what were then called battered wives.
	And she set up a series of hostels, which were called in the media battered wives hostels in those days.
	And I was sent to do a story on one in Birmingham.
	And I talked to a number of these women.
	Obviously, they were not identified.
	And what struck me was the The number of them who were in their second, third, or fourth abusive relationship, which I thought was quite interesting because what was the common theme?
	Because it obviously wasn't the abuser.
	It was, why do you keep pulling these people in?
	But anyway, that's another thing.
	But it was a sense in so many of them that it was somehow their fault.
	And if you look at that abuser relationship, So often the abuser manipulates the abused to actually think it's their fault.
	That's what we're being told, isn't it?
	We're being told this is your fault.
	You didn't follow the rules.
	You hugged each other, you monsters, you old people killers.
	But what they do is they manipulate the figures because for reasons, you know, we can maybe talk about, they can manipulate the figures of cases and deaths dead easily.
	They can push them up, push them down. They're pushing them down a bit now because they want to give the fake impression that the vaccine's working.
	As I said, they would a few months ago.
	These people are nothing if not predictable.
	They really are. But you have this situation where...
	They push the figures up and they blame you for locking you down and destroying even more of your business and destroying even more of your kid's psyche.
	But it's your fault.
	And it's so obvious that we are looking at an abusive relationship between...
	And that abused partner will so frequently justify the abusive behavior, won't they?
	They'll say, well... You know, he doesn't mean it, you know, or he had a bad childhood.
	He drinks too much sometimes.
	And they're doing the same thing. They're like, well, the government has to.
	They don't want to. Yes, our children are committing suicide.
	Yes, we're ruining the economy for our great-great-grandchildren for decades to come.
	But, you know, don't judge them too harshly.
	This is what they have to do.
	And you think, really? I mean, I don't mind if you crunch the numbers, have the debate and come to that conclusion.
	I can live with that.
	I can at least respect you for doing that.
	But this is not that.
	They're just blindly snapping to attention and saying, this is the way it is.
	Don't question it or we will viciously attack you for it.
	It's like a mass psychosis at this point.
	Well, it is. And it's meant to be because, you know, This global cult that I talk about, which goes back a very long time, which is a network of interconnecting secret societies with a common global leadership or control system, like I said earlier, it can only...
	Control or direct the lives of billions through controlling the psyche, the perceptions of the billions.
	So what it's become through the centuries is absolutely expert in manipulating the human psyche.
	It understands how it works.
	It understands if you do A, the psyche will respond in a way of B. This is one of the reasons, one of the many reasons, that they want to hold people systematically in a five sense perception of reality state.
	They want our attention to be focused only in the five senses.
	Because the five senses see everything as apart from everything else.
	They see the world in very limited terms.
	They say the world basically, because that's what it seems like, in a state of I can't, it's not possible.
	And one of the great ways, by the way, to control a population is to limit their sense of the possibility.
	Sorry, David.
	I know how you feel about this, but I'm conscious of time.
	You mentioned that five senses control dynamic, and I know what your perspective is because I've been reading your stuff for 20, maybe longer years, maybe 25 years.
	Could you just briefly, on this issue, talk about racism?
	Because people will say to me, oh, isn't David Icke a racist?
	Isn't he anti-Semitic?
	How does he feel about this group, that group?
	Could you just speak to that for a minute, just so you have an opportunity to make your position clear?
	Well, it goes on from what I've just been saying.
	Exactly, yeah. Because I'm saying that We are all points of attention within an infinite flow of consciousness.
	That's the real true I. We are an internal state of awareness, constantly exploring forever, forever.
	We are currently having a brief human experience.
	And this is where the five senses thing comes in.
	And this cult understands this stuff.
	It's absolutely doing this systematically.
	It wants us to self-identify With the labels that it gives us and the labels we give ourselves.
	It wants us to say the I is I am a man, I am a woman, I am this color, that color, this religion, this race, whatever, this sexuality.
	Now, what I would say is that's not the I, that's the experience that the I is having.
	So my experience is called David Ike, born at Leicester in 1952.
	But that's my experience.
	My consciousness, the eternal I, is having the experience.
	So when you're looking at the reality from that point of view, racism doesn't just become silly.
	It becomes ridiculous.
	It becomes a prime basic confirmation that you have no understanding of what reality is.
	Well, it's sort of a puerile fixation on the body, isn't it?
	Like, what's your favourite way of having sex?
	It's not in your business. What's your skin tone?
	Who cares whether I'm pink or bright?
	It's pure. It's really, like you just said, it's absurd.
	Exactly. But here's another thing to go into.
	What's been happening, and again systematically, is the...
	The self-identities, the labels that we've had in the past to self-identify with and forget that actually we're more than that, have been subdivided and subdivided and subdivided in very recent times.
	Now you've got LGBT and then the letters go on and on and on.
	I mean, I quoted in one of my books the letter self-identity range of an American university and it was hysterical.
	What are you doing?
	It looks like a line of computer code now.
	It's so long. Yeah, which is kind of appropriate because basically the idea is to turn humanity into software programs that just press enter and they do what you want.
	This is, you know, where they want it to ultimately go in the way that we're talking about.
	But so the self-identity It's the woke mentality.
	And the woke mentality has hijacked the traditional left.
	I grew up with the traditional left in the 50s and 60s.
	We were a left of centre family in Leicester on a council estate.
	But the left then was completely different.
	It's not the left that I grew up with at all either, I assure you.
	No! You were challenging the power of wealth and imposition.
	You were demanding freedom of speech.
	I remember seeing on television massive marches from...
	Berkeley demanding freedom of speech in the 60s.
	Now they go on marches demanding it's taken away.
	There's been an inversion. And this self-identity thing is very important because it's been part of this transformation.
	And it's interesting, isn't it, that the woke mentality has been manipulated to become obsessed With labels, seeing people's and judging people from their label and from their color and whatever.
	And at the same time, it's claiming to be anti-racist.
	You know, I rarely see a serious anti-racist who's not full of racism, just as I rarely see someone who's anti-hate who isn't full of it.
	It's a real inversion that's gone on, a real mind game that's gone on.
	I skimmed in your book where you're saying the people who claim to be anti-racist are the most racist.
	The people who claim to be anti-hate are super hateful.
	And in that section, I think I read this correctly, you said we were living in a period of time where there's a huge deficit of love and almost love has become the enemy of the current agenda.
	Would you say that's true? Isn't it funny, mate?
	They're anti-hate.
	They're not pro-love.
	They're anti-hate.
	Anti-hate, when you watch it play out, is just another form of hate hiding behind being against it.
	And this whole self-identity thing is very, very interesting.
	This is how the left has been hijacked, so it's not the left at all.
	I mean, the woke mentality is tyranny.
	Wokeism is its own...
	Well, you talk about cults.
	It functions and seems to be a cult.
	It's based on semi-religious mystical beliefs, really.
	Yeah. But the thing is, you know, they say follow the money.
	Well, follow the money in woke.
	It's funded by multi-billionaire corporations and multi-billionaire individuals.
	It's actually corporatism, isn't it?
	Effectively, it's wokeism, it's corporatism.
	It's hand in glove.
	Exactly. And so you look at someone like George Soros, who's put $32 billion plus into the woke arena.
	And this is a guy who said, I don't look at the social consequences of what I do.
	I'm just there to make money.
	What's he funding all these social justice organizations for?
	Because they've hijacked the left.
	And interesting how they've done it.
	The old left was challenging power.
	It was challenging the abuse of wealth and the accumulation of wealth at the expense of everyone else.
	And it was challenging anything that was challenging for reading the speech.
	So there was a dynamic.
	If you like, it was almost a class dynamic, the haves and have-nots.
	That dynamic, which was the left, has been hijacked, and it's been hijacked because of identity, politics, and that manipulation.
	Now, The dynamic is between wokeness and identity politics and those who don't want it, who are challenging it, who don't want to give up their rights to it.
	And as long as the billionaires and the billionaire corporations are funding this whole woke mentality in all its forms, and they are, they created it through the schools and universities, Then they're the good guys now.
	They're on our side.
	As long as your Zuckerbergs and your Bezoses and your Brins and Pages at Google and all these people and your Soroses, as long as they speak the language of woke and identity politics, they're the good guys now.
	It doesn't matter how they're, you know, coming about their money.
	It doesn't matter about what they do.
	They're the good guys.
	And those who are struggling to earn a living, they're the bad guys if they don't have the same views as the woke mentality.
	It's been a massive mind...
	Programming that's gone on to the point where, you know, I think you can't have a debate with them because they can't debate.
	No, they're completely against the principles of debate.
	These people think debate is screaming at your opposition and having them cancelled and having their Facebook and their YouTube deleted as yours was just, what was it, eight months ago.
	Yeah, the moment I said there wasn't a virus, they all went back.
	Yeah, the lights were coming out.
	You've pushed the button on that one.
	Yeah, exactly. But this is the thing, that if you can't win a debate, you don't have it.
	So the Silicon Valley, the cult-owned, all these major Silicon Valley corporations control circulation of information, they're all cult-owned.
	They're cult-created. These Zuckerbergs and...
	Dorses and Brin and Pages and Wojcicki at YouTube.
	They're only front people.
	They're not in control of those organizations.
	I mean, have you seen Zuckerberg?
	Crikey! He's not the brightest man in the bathroom when he's the only one in there.
	He's not exactly a tower of charisma, is he?
	Definitely a charisma bypass there.
	And an intelligence bypass too.
	I mean, he's asked basic questions and he's like, he's looking into the headlights of an oncoming train.
	So he's not running that.
	This cult's running that.
	But as long as they, you know, like I say, speak the language of woke, that's fine.
	And they can control the debate and shut down the debate because they just, they don't want to debate because they can't win.
	I mean, no one will debate me in the mainstream, no one, about the COVID situation.
	They won't, because they know they can't win the debate.
	When you mentioned it before, you said you're a BBC journalist.
	I knew that, and I'd completely forgotten that that's where people knew you from originally.
	It was football first, then it was the BBC, wasn't it?
	Yeah, that's right. But the BBC has always been a controlled organisation.
	If you could speak to that, that would be great.
	And the state of the BBC now, what do you make of it?
	Yeah, well... The BBC has always been a controlled organisation since Lord Reef was running it way back when it started.
	You couldn't get a more establishment man than Lord Reef.
	But through the 60s and into the 70s and 80s, I worked for it there then.
	There was some good stuff being done by the BBC. There was some good reporting and there was some challenging investigations that went on.
	But I was there when the change took place.
	There was a Scottish guy called Alistair Milne.
	This is in the 1980s.
	And he was the Director General of the BBC. And he was a guy.
	I met him a couple of times.
	He was a guy who...
	Wanted the BBC to be a proper journalistic organization.
	But Margaret Thatcher came in and she didn't.
	And what she did was, and this was not long before I was removed, shall we say, she brought in a guy called Marmaduke Hussey as head of the Board of Governors.
	And his job was to get rid of Milne.
	Because Milne wasn't, you know, going to kowtow to the Thatcher administration.
	So he got sacked.
	And they brought in a man.
	He was an accountant in the BBC as director general.
	Who was so grey that on a grey day, he disappeared.
	You couldn't see it. And then in came the Blair period people.
	What was his name?
	John Bird? Something like that.
	John Burke. Burke.
	And the whole ethos changed and more and more it became an establishment propaganda arm.
	And it's very woke now, isn't it, the BBC? Oh, unbelievable.
	Unbelievable. Because the last director general, I mean, you know, the people that get in charge of the BBC, Well, they're just nodders.
	They're just nodding dogs.
	Not like Alistair Milne, who wanted to stand up for principles.
	They just do what they're told.
	The last one before the present one, who's kind of straight off the club, was a guy called Hall, Lord Hall.
	He was head of news when I was at the BBC. And I used to go and do a stint at the weekends doing the sport on BBC News on a Saturday night.
	He'd got a massive, massive audience in those days, just before Match of the Day came on, you know.
	And Hall was head of news.
	And then I got involved in the Green Party.
	Purely from an environmental point of view.
	And I remember the conversation.
	He called me and he couldn't get it out that they wanted to get rid of me because of my connections to the Green Party.
	Because apparently saying Ian Rush scored a hat trick and the economic system is just, you know, demolishing the environment were actually at odds they somehow worked out.
	It couldn't be tolerated.
	I found out later there was a lot of pressure from other political parties that I was a face on the telly and talking about politics, but on a very, you know, low level, really.
	Anyway, he couldn't get it out.
	And it was like, oh, David, what do you think?
	I mean, what do you think?
	And I actually did it for him in the end.
	I said, look, mate, I won't do it anymore.
	OK, no problem.
	And the next thing I knew, Is that he's director general of the BBC. I couldn't believe it.
	And there's another story.
	When I worked in Birmingham for the BBC, I knew the producer there of the kind of, you know, the evening regional show.
	And he moved to Southampton and did their South Today thing.
	So he said to me, would you mind coming in on the Friday and doing a bit of sport for us?
	I said, well, OK, that's not fair enough.
	Only across the water.
	So I turn up and there was a guy there.
	He worked as a producer, regional producer on the, you know, the regional magazine show.
	And I can't say I've met a lot of people who were as not very bright as this guy, right?
	He really wasn't bright.
	And I thought, what are you doing this job for?
	Anyway, I left there as well because of the Green Party thing and stuff.
	And then there was this big furore at the BBC over the David Kelly situation.
	uh where um you know a reporter said something was was true but the blair government wanted to destroy the reporter and what have you and and uh you know what happened and um the um the director general um stood down uh resigned as a result of the the fake furore that had been whipped up by the blair government so i'm watching the telly and um They were going live to this BBC studio where the Deputy Director General Was going to make a statement.
	The stand-in Director-General, Deputy, the other guy stood down, so now he's in charge.
	And he was going to make a statement to staff, and they were going to run it live.
	So I sat there. I didn't know what the Deputy Director-General was, you know.
	And I watched. And in walks this bloke from Southampton.
	Who was one of the most unimpressively unintelligent people I've ever met, certainly in television.
	And he was deputy director general.
	And shortly afterwards, there was a furore because the next director general came in and he seemed to have found out what I found out about this guy.
	So they deleted the position of deputy director general so that they could move him on.
	And there was a big furore because they paid him a phenomenal amount of money to go.
	Why am I not surprised to hear that?
	About 400 grand.
	So the BBC is a terrible organisation.
	It's up its own backside.
	It's inward looking.
	It doesn't understand the world outside, just like Parliament does.
	And it's been systematically taken over, not least through recruitment, by the woke mentality.
	And what the BBC does...
	Because when I first went to America and I turned on cable news, right, coming from Britain, I couldn't bloody believe it.
	I thought this is a parody.
	This is not the parody of a news program.
	It's a shock for Brits going to America.
	I don't think Americans know.
	It's unbelievable. They were just so biased and openly so.
	It was incredible. The BBC is just as biased, but it does it in a very, well, not subtle way if you can see it, but for most people, subtle.
	What it does to...
	To control a debate, it will have one side of it and it will decide that that side is no longer or doesn't deserve to have a say because, like they said with climate change, the science is settled so there's no need anymore.
	It was an official policy to have anyone on that's challenging the whole thing about human-caused climate change.
	And the other thing they'll do is they will have someone on to and other media do this too they'll have someone on who is not that articulate they might be nice people You know, but they're not articulate to put their case.
	And these people know that.
	So they'll bring them on to put an argument and they'll put someone who's slick and articulate against them.
	To smash them. They do that all the time.
	But most of the manipulation done by the BBC is by omission.
	By just banging out the same recurring narrative and not letting anyone else in.
	So, for instance, I'll give you a great example.
	I turned on...
	What's his name?
	Nicky Campbell. I met him one or two times when he was a radio DJ. You know, any...
	Any connection between Nicky Campbell and journalism is purely coincidental.
	And I turned on and they had Piers Corbyn in a little studio audience with Campbell running the whole thing.
	Let's say it was a studio audience.
	It was an audience of people who were all going to give a say.
	There was a Green Party person in there and there was There was Piers Corbyn, who, of course, is a weather guy who challenges human-caused global warming, climate change.
	And the bias was unbelievable.
	Every time Campbell came to Corbyn, he ridiculed him.
	and jumped in before he'd finished a sentence and every time he went to someone who was pro climate change caused by humans again the evidence is zilch when you break it down they were just given time to say what they liked and this is how the BBC works so it's like a subtle covert ambient abuse it's not in your face and you know haranguing you it's just very very cold and subtle Yeah.
	I mean, I watch things, even like talk radio.
	I'm banned from talk radio as well in Britain.
	Are you really? Oh, yeah.
	No, I'm banned from the mainstream media on order of...
	Completely? Oh, yeah.
	But on order of Ofcom, the government broadcast regularly.
	I had no idea. So no mainstream media outlet under any circumstances can interview you now?
	No, not the broadcast media anyway.
	And, you know, you talk...
	The print media don't talk to you either.
	You must be a very dangerous man with extremely dangerous ideas.
	You must espouse terrible, dangerous, frightening, violent ideas, Mr.
	Ike. Yeah, well, I am dangerous.
	Why I'm dangerous is the information I'm putting out because it's dangerous to the official narrative.
	That's the reason. When it started in March and I was coming out about this is a scam in terms of the COVID thing, the And the lady, what's her name, Marjorie Dawes, not Marjorie Dawes, Melanie Dawes, the CEO of Ofcom, which is a government broadcast regulator created by Tony Blair, because you can see how bad it is.
	And they told the broadcast media that they couldn't have anyone on.
	I.e. me or anyone that was challenging the World Health Organization version of the virus.
	They could challenge the reaction to the virus, but they couldn't challenge the virus.
	And there was a small little community station in Surrey that had one woman on For one interview about, she was looking at a possible 5G connection to the virus, and the Ofcom came down like a ton of bricks on them.
	And I did an interview with With London Real.
	The first one I did on the virus.
	I did about five, I think.
	And another station, which is, I think, owned by the same people that own the Evening Standard.
	It's called London Live.
	They ran the interview.
	And the Ofcom came smashing down on them.
	And this is what's happened now.
	The takeover Of journalism by the cult, as I would call it, is phenomenal in this sense, too, that they don't just have a go at you.
	They don't just not have you on.
	These people openly campaign to have you silenced.
	The BBC ran a story about the fact that my second interview with London Real, that's the one where I said, look, there is no virus, and I went into detail about it.
	It was removed by YouTube very quickly.
	It was live-streamed, and then they removed it immediately afterwards.
	But the BBC were involved in that.
	The BBC reported it and said, what are you doing about this guy?
	Then ITV... We're good to go.
	You now have journalists, well they're not of course, campaigning to delete freedom of speech.
	It's an extraordinary situation that we are in.
	Comrade Stalin would be so proud.
	Exactly. I mean, like now they're campaigning to have this Tucker Carlson show taken off Fox News by marketing his advertisers.
	There's a guy in America who has a pillow-making experience.
	And he's been advertising on the Tucker Carlson show for ages because he kind of supports what Carlson's doing.
	Well, they're trying to destroy his business.
	They've absolutely targeted the guy.
	And that's how they work.
	And these are the people that talk about inclusivity.
	When actually they want the opposite because it's all an inversion.
	You know, the woke mentality itself is an inversion.
	So we are in a very challenging situation and we come back to perception.
	They want the same narrative to be the only thing that anyone hears.
	And that's what we're seeing unfolding before our eyes now.
	That exact goal unfolding.
	I'm very aware of the time.
	We have run over a little bit.
	I do appreciate your time.
	I know that people are going to be saying as they watch this, though, what can we do?
	Is there any solution?
	Is there any advice that you could offer people for what the practical steps that they can take?
	Yeah, just very quickly, just going back to what I was saying earlier, because we've been talking about so many things.
	My philosophy is the most unracist thing you can come across.
	Oh yeah, we never finished that.
	Yeah, I don't see people as their labels.
	I see the consciousness having an experience through the label.
	So to me, a Jewish person or an Islamic person, they're having an experience But ultimately, they are part of the same consciousness I am in.
	See, racism, which we talked about earlier, racism is the self-identification with the experience and not that which is having the experience.
	So do you have any sympathy or any tolerance or patience for racists or racist ideologies at all?
	Well, no, because it's stupid.
	Well, just tell us what you really think, David.
	Yeah, it's stupid because it's...
	I've used this analogy before.
	It's like two spacemen on the moon fighting each other because the spacesuits were made by different companies.
	One's green, one's blue.
	It's crazy, man.
	It's absolutely insane.
	And... But if you can't discredit someone by telling things about them that are true, then make them up.
	It's as simple as that.
	And if you notice, and this is very, very indicative, very significant.
	Oh, I've just used me...
	I don't know. I've just touched a wire.
	Oh, there we go. Put it back. Bit of our contact interference there.
	Yeah. This is very significant because I've been targeted over the years as being anti-Semitic.
	Yeah. When what I've been doing with...
	Sources that are Jewish rabbis, Jewish researchers, and Jewish activists, pointing out that the Jewish community and the Islamic community and the Roman Catholic community have actually been taken over and infiltrated.
	By a, well, a cult, which is called Sabbateanism.
	The Sabbatean cult goes back to the 17th century, and I write about it at length in my books.
	And like I say, sources for much of it are Jewish sources, right?
	And what this Sabbatean cult does, I mean, Netanyahu is one of its famous players, but it goes into many, many different warriors.
	It runs the government of Israel.
	And what it's done is infiltrated.
	This is what this cult does, this Sabbatean cult.
	It infiltrates different religions, different cultures, and poses as advocates and protectors of those cultures and religions when what it's after is destroying them.
	And it manipulates itself into the positions of power.
	But the culture, the religion, they think that those people in power are actually representing them.
	They're not. They have contempt for them.
	I hate Jewish people.
	That's the irony. But what they do is they use Jewish people as their cover.
	So when you're uncovering the Sabbateans, They'll say, you're anti-Semitic, which actually means anti-Arab, actually.
	Semitism is a group of languages which are overwhelmingly, almost in their entirety, Arabic languages, which is an irony.
	But anyway, so...
	And another inversion.
	These inversions keep popping up.
	All inversion. So they've targeted me way back since the mid-1990s.
	I brought out a book called...
	And the truth shall set you free.
	That's where I started with you, right there.
	Well, I said in that book that there was a massive Jewish, what I would now say Sabbatean, involvement in the Russian Revolution.
	Right. Well, that is one of the most...
	Supportable statements you could think of.
	Because when you go back to the original records of all the people involved, that is absolutely what happened.
	But I now realize they weren't Sabbateans.
	Churchill, Winston Churchill made the same point.
	He said that atheistic, non-religious Jewish people are massively involved in the Russian Revolution.
	He said that. But it's anti-Semitic, even though it's true.
	So they've been on my case since then.
	Where I'm going with this, however, is that these organizations, these anti-hate organizations, who were targeting me for that, Once we entered 2020, these same organizations, like the Center for Countering Digital Hate and Hate Not Hope.
	Well, I call it Hate Not Hope.
	It's really called Hope Not Hate.
	But I tend to use the accurate version.
	All these organizations, they morphed.
	Seamlessly from targeting people for being anti-Semitic to targeting people for being against the vaccine.
	These are the same organizations that are targeting what they call anti-vaxxers.
	They're the people that are targeting anyone now who is questioning the official narrative of the so-called pandemic.
	It's because these organizations are not there Because they're against hate.
	They're full of it. What are they trying to do?
	They're trying to get people to hate their targets.
	They're there to demonize, discredit, and attempt to silence Those that are pushing back on the agenda in whatever area it is.
	So when you're pushing back on the agenda, for instance, you're talking about this Sabbatean cult that's infiltrated all these different organizations, religions, and cultures while posing as them, then you've got to be pushed back as being anti-Semitic.
	But now, more important, you're challenging this crucial COVID narrative that people have to believe for us to pull it off, and now they target you for that.
	And the common theme is not You know, anti-Semitism or whatever.
	It's what is these people saying?
	We don't want people to hear, so we'll target them.
	So what's the campaign for countering digital hate or the center for countering digital hate now turning its focus on anti-vaxxers for?
	What's that got to do with it?
	What's that got to do with racial hate?
	Isn't it funny how they start out with a remit and then the remit just kind of grows and expands and morphs and everybody just goes, oh, oh, okay, yeah, that seems...
	You're right, they've got no business, no business doing that whatsoever.
	And by the way, all these organisations, particularly this Centre for Countering Digital Hate, it was created by Labour Party activists.
	You know, we go back to what we talked about earlier, where, you know, when we were growing up, it was a very different left.
	Well, this is where the so-called left has gone.
	One of the creators of the Centers for Countering Digital Hate is now the Chief of Staff, Takir Starmer, the Labour leader.
	And the head of this...
	Centre for Counter and Digital Hate.
	What's his name? Imran or something like that.
	He's a long-time Labour Party activist.
	You know, Kirsty McNeil, who now I think she's involved with Save the Children, she was a speechwriter and a senior advisor to Gordon Brown when he was Labour Prime Minister.
	She's one of the directors of the Centre for Counter and Digital Hate.
	So, Imran Ahmed, that's his name.
	And so you've got this organisation targeting people to silence their freedom of speech, to demonise them, and to discredit them, and it's all come out of the Labour Party.
	It's incredible! Which was set up by Keir, not Keir Starmer, he's there to destroy it, Keir Hardy at the turn of the 20th century to represent downtrodden working people.
	That's what I grew up with.
	It was a working class movement.
	It was fun. For the working class so that they weren't excessively exploited by the elites.
	It was from down to up.
	And now it's become, well, who knows?
	It depends on which bit of the intersectional dynamic you want to look at.
	It's everybody versus everybody now, really.
	Yeah, but if you look at the Labour Party, that tells you something about what I've just been talking about.
	Because what happened when Jeremy Corbyn was leader, it was attacked endlessly, ceaselessly, as being anti-Semitic, as being anti-Semitic party.
	Yes. Now, what was orchestrating that was the Sabbatean cult.
	Right. If Jeremy Corbyn was going to make a contribution there, he should have stood up and said that actually we're not anti-Semitic, but we do reserve the right to criticize the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians, which we think is important.
	Therefore, we are not going to be silenced.
	And what's going on here Is there is an attempt to demonize me and demonize the Labour Party so that we will not criticize the Israeli government?
	We're not having it.
	But instead, he appeased them.
	Appeasing people that are trying to destroy you Is always a mugs game because you can't appease them.
	You appease them this far.
	They want more and they want more.
	And eventually they took the Labour Party over.
	And Keir Starmer, as I've said in one of my books, spends his days on his knees with his tongue out pointing at Tel Aviv.
	Or it's probably Jerusalem now.
	He's completely controlled by this Sabbatean cult.
	And his chief of staff is one of the creators of this So-called anti-hate group, which targets anyone who challenges Israel.
	I mean, you can see where it all fits together.
	And, you know, it got to such...
	This is an example of the difference between Jewish people and the Sabbatean cult, which hates Jewish people.
	There was one guy, I mentioned him in one of the books.
	He was born in Israel.
	His grandparents were in Nazi Germany.
	And he was conscripted into the Israeli Defense Forces.
	And when his conscription was over, he stayed on and he did some PR work showing journalists around Israel and showing them, you know, places that the Israeli government wanted him to see and not showing them what they didn't want him to see.
	And in this period, this guy sussed That what he'd been programmed to believe about Israel, the government and all that stuff when he was a kid, because the programming, I know a lot of people in Israel.
	I talk to, I get communications from them and I get interviewed by them quite often.
	And the programming from birth is extraordinary in terms you've got to believe what we tell you.
	And one of the parts of the programming is the rest of the world hates us.
	Yes, I've got friends through the martial arts who've told me about the experience.
	Yeah, it's unbelievable. Anyway, this guy's sussed it eventually.
	And he thinks, how can I make a contribution to exposing all this?
	So he moves to Britain and he's looking around and he thinks, well, you know, probably the best vehicle politically is the Labour Party.
	So he joined the Labour Party to challenge the excesses of the Israeli government.
	And he was one of the people that was expelled from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism.
	And the reason that...
	And this is true. If you wrote that in a book, people would say, that's silly.
	You can't have that as a plot line.
	Well, I have written it in a book, and it's true.
	But this is an interesting area about the...
	I will come on to what we can do about it in a minute, but I'm enjoying this.
	It was... One of the things that you notice, I mean, they've gone for me.
	They've gone for me constantly over the years, going back to the 90s.
	But the people they go for more than anyone, Are Jewish people that criticize Israel?
	Or Jewish people that criticize the political philosophy, not the race, called Zionism.
	Zionism, yeah. And the reason they do that is they do try, my God, staggeringly, but it's very much more difficult to dub a Jewish person anti-Semitic.
	It's easy, you know, you're a non-Jewish person, you're anti-Semitic, you're just a racist, all that stuff, so fight them, you know.
	But Jewish people, it's more difficult, obviously.
	So they go for them.
	Well, they'll label them as self-hating Jews.
	Yeah, that's right. Basically, it's like calling someone, like me, Who is challenging the British government over what's going on now.
	It's like calling me a self-hating British person.
	Right. Because I'm challenging the official line, I must be a self-hater.
	I can't be, I can't, I say can't have any validity.
	And so that's how it works.
	That's how it works.
	And so, you know, they've thrown Jewish people out of the Labour Party for anti-Semitism.
	And that guy is an extreme example because of his history, but he's not the only one.
	Yeah. And others that have been ejected invariably are what we would call old school Labour people.
	Right. Because the whole thing's been taken over.
	So what we've had in America...
	Is the Biden woke government coming in?
	Yes. And it is going to be the most, it's already started, but it will be the most extreme authoritarian American government in American history.
	Yes. And then what you've got waiting in the wings here is the Labour Party.
	And we have a Labour Party.
	And again, we go back.
	We remember what it used to be like.
	We have a Labour Party that is opposing the government of the day, Boris Johnson's government, the fascism and tyranny of this Johnson government, Jack Boot Johnson, I call him. And their opposition is based on it's not fascist enough.
	It's beautiful. It's perfect.
	You look at what Keir Starmer is saying.
	He is demanding that things be, all along through 2020 to now, that things be made more extreme than they are.
	He's in perfect opposition.
	So he can seem to be opposing everything they're doing.
	Meanwhile, in code, he's affirming the validity of what they're doing.
	Yeah. I mean, if you got an old-school Labour leader, they would be screaming at the impact on poor and working people of these lockdowns.
	But instead, they're saying, no, you're not locking them down enough.
	So you have a situation in...
	It's like you have a kind of a left and right.
	And then the left just moves closer and closer, and eventually it crosses over.
	And that's where we are.
	The Labour Party in Britain is now more extreme than even the fascist Tory party.
	And in America, the Biden administration and the Democrats are far more far-right And the Republicans.
	Much further right.
	I'm only sort of getting my head around politics in the last 18 months, and what a time to try and get your head around politics 2020 was.
	And I was like, oh, so the left is because of the French Revolution, they're the rebels, they're against the elites, they're reformists.
	And then I was looking at the American situation going, wait a second now.
	You're telling me those guys are the rebels and these guys are the...
	No, no, no, no. It's inversion yet again.
	It's another inversion. I'll tell you what's interesting too.
	You know, over the years, I've done a lot of research into where all this came from and all the different, you know...
	And what you find is the Sabbatean cult was behind the French Revolution.
	They were behind it.
	They were the orchestrators of it.
	And they are experts in revolutions that appear to be for the people.
	But actually a for the Sabbatean cult because of the effect it has on the other side.
	So it's no surprise that they were involved in the Russian Revolution.
	They were involved in the French Revolution.
	And crucially to current events, they were centrally involved in the Chinese Revolution, the Mao Revolution.
	Right. And the reason, see, this cult plays the long game.
	It systematically moves in a direction, and it's very calculated, and it thinks a long time into the future.
	That's why Orwell could predict what he did.
	That's why Aldous Huxley in 1932, Brave New World, could predict what he did.
	That's why I've been able to predict all this stuff over the years.
	Of course, it's not random.
	It's an agenda, and if you can uncover it and nothing intervenes in it, it happens.
	They call you a prophet, but it's not what you want to be.
	Are you ever even slightly smug about how many things you got right 20 years ago?
	Do you ever have any moments where, like, I fucking told you?
	Well, not really, because the idea of doing what I've done is to head it off, you know, to alert people.
	But it did have to get really bad before people would actually see it.
	That was obvious.
	So the Chinese Revolution was to create a closed society Within which a blueprint for global control, a structure of global control, could be incubated.
	Could be incubated within a closed society in which whatever the government said happened.
	In the West, until the turn of 2020, that is, they still have had to play lip service to the fact that it's a free world, right?
	So they've been able to move.
	They've moved it quicker and quicker and quicker.
	It's light speed now. But up to very recent times, they've been able to move much slower in forming this control system than China, which could just whack it out.
	So that...
	Incubated structure, model of human control that they want to play out across the world has been created in China.
	Crucially, it's based on technology, technological surveillance, technological control.
	And what has happened as a result of a virus that's supposed to come out of China is that that system is being played out.
	What we're actually seeing in the West, which, you know, this unfolding control and tyranny, is the Chinese system playing out.
	And that level of control.
	So the tried and tested system that they've already been developing over there is now being in place here.
	Does that mean you think that we'll be looking at a social credit system here as well?
	Yeah, exactly. It's moving that way.
	And the social credit system will be connected to the guaranteed income.
	But, you know, coming back to the question you posed three days ago of what we do, Well, let's look at the numbers.
	There's 8 billion people or closing in on 8 billion people that are being manipulated and you would get the inner core of this cult in a single room.
	And the way they have done it and the way they've structured society is very simple because if it wasn't simple, the complexity of it would just make What they want impossible to achieve.
	So it's a real simple structure and it's hierarchical.
	And it's based on two things.
	Imposition and acquiescence.
	That's it. It's that simple.
	So you have the national pyramids.
	And you have a pyramid, a global pyramid, and they work in exactly the same way.
	And the national pyramids are little aspects of the global pyramid, because it's all centrally globally controlled and dictated, as we've seen very clearly with the reaction to the COVID hoax and pandemic hoax.
	So at the top of this pyramid, you've got the inner core of this cult.
	And it imposes its will, what it wants to happen, on the next level, which acquiesces to it and imposes it on the next level.
	And very soon after you come down from that inner core peak, you're meeting levels of the hierarchy, the human hierarchy, that have no idea there even is a cult.
	What they're doing is taking orders from, quote, And they are then imposing them on the level below them.
	And if you look at a structure of a secret society, that's how it works.
	You've got all the degrees and each level has its own level of knowledge.
	And the higher you go, the more level of knowledge you get of what the whole thing's about, which people at the bottom have no idea what it's about.
	Bill and Joe down the local lodge won't have a bloody clue what's going on compared with those at the top of the Freemasonic pyramid, for instance.
	So what then happens is you come down this pyramid of imposition, acquiescence, imposition, acquiescence, until you reach that part where the general population is.
	And this is the crucial last step.
	If we, the population, the vast number compared with a tiny few, acquiesce To that which is imposing upon us, which is government law enforcement, in ways that are just there to enslave us and control us.
	If we complete that circuit between the few and the many of acquiescing to government law enforcement imposition.
	Then we complete the circuit.
	And what we've done by doing that is allow a tiny few at the top of the pyramid to impose their will on the entirety of the global population through imposition acquiescence.
	So what we need to do is break the circuit.
	Break the circuit of acquiescence.
	And that means not cooperating with our own enslavement.
	This is why, you know, we talked at the top about these three groups.
	That which believes what it's told and does what it's told and doesn't question.
	That which can see there's a problem but fears the consequences of Challenging the problem and then the other group that can see the problem and having anything to do with acquiescing with it, obeying.
	That third group is what will bring this down, if anything will.
	Because the other two won't. One won't think they need to bring it down and the other one's too frightened to bring it down.
	The third one is where the change must take place.
	And, you know, to, again, You know, talk about the long game.
	It's not just the cult that has the long game.
	I think we need to have the long game.
	And what I mean by that is this.
	If we self-identify with the labels of five sense reality, then things look a certain way.
	It looks very difficult to change anything.
	Anything changing would seem to be a very slow process.
	It doesn't have to be, for reasons I've come to.
	And law enforcement officialdom can seem very intimidating.
	And the five-sense mind, not least because of the input of the survival mechanism, is very easily intimidated and it's constantly thinking about consequences and I'm not talking about the sensible consequences of if I walk in front of a bus it ain't going to turn out well it's the consequences if I do what I believe to be right what are the consequences and when you're playing the short game which is The biblical three score years and ten, this is me, this is the I. Then the world can seem a certain place.
	But when you break out of that, anyone can do it.
	You know, you don't have to be the Buddha sitting cross-legged on a mountain.
	It's a choice. It's a perceptual choice.
	It's a perceptual transformation.
	And what I would say is, in my experience, that's what I can talk about, is it's a transformation of self-identity.
	Instead of the I being the labels, the I is consciousness.
	That consciousness which leaves the body when this is over, the short little sojourn called human, that's the long game.
	That's not looking at the next turn in the river.
	That's seeing the whole river from source to sea.
	And it knows that this human life is a transitory, very brief experience on the exploration of forever.
	So from that point of view, a bloke in a yellow jacket with police on the back or some prat in a dark suit from the council or the government They don't have the same level of intimidation.
	Because to you, it's just an experience.
	Just an experience. And it's something else.
	When you self-identify with this level of consciousness, which we all are, all of us, then you don't think about consequences in the same way.
	Because you know it's just an experience, and whatever the experience is, there'll be another one after that.
	And by the way, there'll be another one forever.
	So when you're thinking, what do I know I need to do?
	What do I know is the right thing to do?
	There's not this mental process where you think, well, This is what I know I should be doing, but what are the consequences for me?
	Because the sense of consequence or consequences in the three score years and ten of the five senses is not the sense of consequence when you come from another level of awareness, which, like I say, anyone can do.
	It's a choice. You think, well, to consider the consequences Of not doing what I know to be right is to consider not doing what I know to be right.
	So you do it and you keep doing it.
	And what you find out, funnily enough, is it tends to work out when you do that.
	I mean, I remember when I was a footballer, goalkeeper, the worst time of being a professional footballer for me was sitting in the dressing room Thinking of all the things that go wrong before a game.
	You got out there and usually they went right.
	It's like people are frightened of a dentist and they worry for weeks.
	It's like a fight in martial arts.
	You're torturing yourself with the worst and then when it's actually unfolding, Yeah.
	I'll just do this.
	It's okay. It's okay.
	You can handle it. Yeah, exactly.
	So, you know, I know people have been frightened at the dentist and they've gone to the dentist, been worrying about it for weeks, and they say, well, that was all right.
	What do you mean it was all right?
	You've been in a mess for three weeks.
	Because... Thinking about it is often much worse than actually doing it.
	It tends to work out. You don't get challenges.
	I mean, I've been 30 years of abuse.
	And that's another thing you see.
	When you're looking at self-identifying from this level, when someone abuses you and says things about you, well, I'm an expression of infinite consciousness on an eternal journey of exploration of forever.
	What's it matter what someone says about me on Twitter?
	Right. But in that situation, when you are self-identifying with this three score years and ten, it can be devastating for you.
	And it's this...
	This is why they want us in those five-sense-only senses of perception and reality, because they know how limited the world seems and how limited your power appears to be when you are focused only on that level.
	So... When you look at the world from that point of view, everything seems apart from everything else.
	Everything seems solid.
	Everything seems slow in the way that things move.
	And, you know, we want to change things.
	Oh, it's going to be so slow.
	No, it doesn't have to be.
	Because we go back to what we were talking about earlier.
	What is human society?
	It is collective human behavior.
	Where does that come from?
	Collective human perception.
	And if we change our perception, we change human society.
	You don't really have to do anything, even in terms of organization.
	It happens because the behavior changes.
	So if you want to silence people who don't have the same opinion as you, And that's your perception, then that will create a human society in which people are cancelled and suppressed and silenced and you don't have the free flow of information.
	Change that perception. Everyone has a right to an opinion and a view, even if I don't agree with it.
	In fact, even more if I don't agree with it, because that's what freedom is.
	Freedom is not... Freedom is to respect everyone's right to say what they like.
	Now, that is a perception that says...
	Free flow of information.
	So what happens?
	The behavior that comes from that is the free flow of information instead of a cancelled culture.
	The whole world can change literally overnight.
	It's just a matter of how quickly perception changes.
	And so if you have a perception that there's a deadly virus and you have to do what the government says, You have the current situation.
	When you have a perception that's prepared to express itself, that says, this is a scam, and it's just to enslave and control us, and we're not having it anymore, then you don't have the situation we're in now.
	Because if, I mean, what is there, 60-odd What if a large percentage of that, not all of them, not even half, a large percentage of that says, we're going to open our businesses.
	We're going back to work. We're not going to wear a mask.
	They don't have enough police.
	They don't have enough military.
	Not even close. No.
	To stop that. Unenforceable.
	And would soldiers really go out with machine guns and shut down the businesses of British citizens?
	I don't know whether they would even do that.
	Well, it's interesting, isn't it, that the elite, with all their wealth, use people they pay a pittance.
	Yes. To enforce their will.
	And, you know, it's really something when you see police officers imposing health-destroying psychology, destroying masks on people while themselves bloody wearing them, destroying their own health and dismantling their own psychology.
	That's got to be some definition of insanity, I would have thought.
	And when the penny drops with these people, that they're actually creating a society which their children and grandchildren are going to have to live in, maybe they'll start representing the people they're supposed to represent, the people of which they are a part of, And stop being enforcers for that which seeks to destroy them and has total contempt for them.
	Remember Kissinger's quote, quoted by Bob Woodward in one of his books about the military being basically dumb animals to be used for American foreign policy.
	That's how they see the military.
	That's how they see law enforcement.
	They're just means to an end.
	I respect for them.
	And so when that penny drops, you know, it's over.
	You know when that movie about the Guy Fawkes character at the end when there's that massive crowd walks towards Parliament and the military are there and they put the guns down.
	It's over. We need to reach that point.
	And to reach that point, we need a perceptual change in far more people in the general population and a perceptual change in law enforcement.
	Well, there are military and active military and retired military and police watching this now who are friends of mine who are big, big fans of yours.
	So there are already people who are walking on that path, I think, at this point.
	Yeah, and what we need to do is to put the fault lines down.
	And realize that we're all in this together.
	It doesn't matter if you're a police officer or someone in the military or ever on the checkout.
	We're all in this together because the gun sights of this cult are on all of us.
	It doesn't matter what race we are.
	You know, another confirmation of what I've been saying about the Sabbateans and how they are Their goal is to destroy the Jewish community and to destroy the Jewish religion.
	That's their goal.
	You look at how the Netanyahu government is treating Orthodox Jews in Israel now, who don't want the vaccine.
	Oh, really? Oh, yes.
	Big time. All the demonizations going on them.
	This is the game because they're not Jewish people.
	They're the Sabbateans. So if we can put these fault lines down, okay?
	You want to follow that religion?
	Be my guest. You know, my philosophy on life is ever so simple.
	Do what you like so long as you don't impose it on anyone else.
	Right. Right? You know, I'm kind of an ultimate liberal, really.
	It's pure liberalism.
	It's real liberalism, not this fake woke nonsense.
	It's real liberalism. So, if you want to follow that religion, I don't agree with it, but you might not agree with what I'm saying.
	Well, that's fine. Let's have a beer.
	Or if you don't drink, I'll have a tea, but whatever.
	Of course, we come back to something else, this driving people apart, this driving people into isolation, which is what they do when they're trying to break down prisoners of war, etc.
	They want to stop this exchange of ideas because the exchange of ideas at the moment is coming through technology.
	They control the grid.
	They can push this off whenever they like, and then there's no interaction and there's no technological communication.
	That's the game. I wondered if they were so keen on restricting travel, because with all this cheap travel that's going on now, people were traveling, they'd see the world and they'd go, well, this country isn't like I was told it was at all.
	These people aren't the way they're portrayed.
	And it becomes a psychedelic Consciousness expanding experience to have so many human beings just going around the world traveling where you can't have that.
	You just can't have them doing that.
	Yeah, and I've been to over 60 countries and I tell you what, the more you travel and the more you meet people Different people, different races and different countries.
	The more you see we're all the same, really.
	We might express our labels slightly differently, but what we want and most people, what they want is the same.
	But the cult doesn't want us to have that.
	Well, you know, most people don't want to go to war with anyone, but we keep having wars.
	And interesting you mentioned that about travel.
	I mean, if people went back to my books from, you know, maybe, I don't know, 10 years ago or, you know, that kind of period or even further, from the perspective of now, they'd be shocked.
	Because I was pointing out then that the plan was to stop travel.
	Stop travel, cashless society, everybody trapped, your phone's going to listen to you.
	Yeah, that went back at least 15 years.
	Stop people traveling and it's all about, they don't want interaction.
	Why have they targeted the bars and the restaurants?
	Yeah. And the sports venues.
	Why have they done that?
	Because it's stopping the interaction of ideas and the human interaction and closeness that we want, that we psychologically need.
	That's why they're destroying kids.
	The psyche of the kids is all part of this.
	How do young kids have relationships anymore?
	How do they have a relationship with a girl or a boy or relationships as friends?
	They've stopped, apparently.
	They're stopping in huge numbers.
	They're now emotionally attached to their phones where they otherwise would have had a girlfriend or a boyfriend.
	And they're actually giving up on real humans because they're too complicated and difficult to deal with.
	Apparently, they're just stopping. Now, if we talk for long enough, the dots you connect are just endless because they all connect.
	They want to connect the human brain to technology, to artificial intelligence.
	It's the ultimate control, isn't it?
	Yeah. So what they're doing, and this is all part of this, is they're moving people away from human interaction to human interaction with technology.
	Because it's part, especially with the young people, Who are going to be moving into the adult world when this is supposed to be happening.
	And so, for instance, you have these, what do they call them, personal assistants, like the Echo and the Alexa and all that stuff.
	Yes, yeah. What that's doing, absolutely systematically, is getting people to interact with AI as if it's freaking humans.
	So it's creating a relationship just like this between humans and technology, humans and AI. So they're getting these toys now for very young kids which are connected to the internet and you have this interaction with AI and this is all part of it.
	The more you can push humans And push humans together with technology, the more you're making this connection.
	Because before you can make a physical connection, you have to make a psychological connection.
	And the more that you can draw people in to start seeing or treating and perceiving AI in a human sense, these office assistants are doing it all the time, the more all the resistance Which you get from people like me who has a radar because of the length of my life.
	All the resistance to connecting yourself to AI becomes diluted.
	It's a massive thing.
	Honestly, it is a massive, massive agenda.
	Far bigger than COVID. The COVID hoax has just been a stage which has massively advanced the agenda, but it's only part of the agenda.
	But every single thing, no matter what element of this agenda you're talking about, you bring it back.
	There's nearly eight billion of those being manipulated.
	There's a handful at the core of those doing the manipulating.
	So all of this can be brought down whenever we choose short of attaching to AI because then it's going to be seriously challenging because you're not going to be in control of your own mind anymore.
	And by the way, you know, say all these dots connect.
	The reason for the transgender explosion is actually nothing to do with transgender people.
	They're being conned.
	The reason for the transgender explosion is to destroy the perception of gender because they are in this movement towards this AI-controlled human.
	They are moving um the nature of the body from a biological state to a synthetic biological state which is what gender polarity would be yeah just doesn't fit with that agenda at all does it people who are very masculine very feminine it's not it it it doesn't and this um messenger RNA vaccine Allege vaccine, this DNA synthetic manipulation of the human body.
	It's why they want us to be constantly having the vaccines over and over and more.
	All the other vaccines, they're going to become messenger RNA vaccines as well.
	And the idea is you're going to transform the body from a biological state to a synthetic biological state, which is why synthetic biology is a massively expanding disease.
	Discipline today of science.
	So the idea is to...
	And this is why they're targeting young kids.
	This is why they're putting drag queens to read stories in schools and stuff like that.
	It's fusing the sense of gender or confusing, confusing the sense of gender on the road to fusing gender.
	Because this... I'll call it human 2.0, the synthetic version.
	He's not meant to procreate.
	That's why they're targeting men because they don't need men anymore.
	This is why sperm counts around the world are absolutely freaking plummeting.
	And this is why now they're starting to target, as I said they would years ago, they're starting to target the rights of women because women are no use to them anymore either as they go into the no gender, no procreation human.
	And to find out what I mean by that, just go back to Brave New World and Older Subsidy because he described it.
	The world state hatcheries where humans, he said, were decanted technologically rather than procreated naturally.
	And the artificial wounds that he basically described, they're now making them.
	Yeah, and it's 1984 as well, isn't it?
	When O'Brien says to Winston as he's torturing him, we will abolish the human orgasm.
	People will maybe have sex once a year under terrible conditions.
	It will be a joyless, quick experience only for procreation.
	Yeah. I remember reading that part of the book and going, I understood everything else, but I don't get that.
	And I thought it was too extreme.
	I was like, oh, well, I lost the plot in this paragraph.
	And we are now seeing it.
	We're now living it. We're living the death of the potential for human intimacy and for human reproduction.
	Well, you just said it. The potential for human intimacy.
	What has this last year been?
	Destroying the whole concept and possibility of human intimacy.
	Isolation and lockdown is the opposite of intimacy, isn't it?
	Yeah, exactly. I would say to the troops that are watching, and to any police officers that are watching, this is where this is meant to go.
	And if we wait around and go on letting it happen, every day it's getting closer to it.
	The idea is to make everything seem random and everything seem a dot.
	Keep people in a constant state of bewilderment and confusion.
	This is why they all do this.
	Oh, no, we do that. Yeah, but that's opposite.
	What's going on? This is where all this is taking us.
	And we can stop it any time we choose, short of a connection to AI by the brain.
	We can stop it any time we choose by simply ceasing to cooperate with it and ceasing to be divided and ruled.
	And you know, like I say, the great irony is that I'm saying we're all one.
	And those that are attacking me as being a racist are saying, no, that's not true.
	We're all, you know. No, we want to stay separate, David.
	You racist.
	Let us be fair. I don't follow that logic at all.
	Incredible. But, you know, the answer is just staring us in the face.
	I mean, it's just numbers.
	And if anyone wants just to get a visual representation of this, they go on the internet and they put in the tiny dot.
	You'll get it in YouTube, the tiny dot.
	Or in fact, if you go to davidike.com and put the tiny dot in, you'll find it.
	And it is a very simple animated representation of how, that's why it's called the tiny dot, of how many people run the world compared with how many people are being run.
	It's extraordinary.
	Eight billion nearly being directed, controlled and manipulated.
	Ultimately, By a handful that you get in one room.
	It's ridiculous. And only by keeping people in ignorance of it and then keeping people intimidated so they do nothing about it, that's the only way that it can happen.
	We can stop it whenever we like.
	And that's the frustrating thing, really.
	What do we do? Well, we don't have to do anything.
	We have to stop doing something.
	And that's... Acquiescing with our own enslavement.
	Gone. Licking the jackboots merrily and attacking anybody who's a dissenter on behalf of our feudal lords.
	Yeah. I'll die first.
	I'll die before I do that.
	And I don't mind that.
	I'm not going to mind, but I don't mind doing that because I'm exploring forever.
	But, you know, it's a great quote.
	I won't get it exactly because it's quite long, but it's a great quote by Martin Luther King.
	And he said that...
	If you're 38, as he was then, that's why he used that number.
	You're 38 and you have the opportunity to stand up for some great cause and you choose not to because you fear the consequences.
	You fear this or you fear that, you fear the other.
	You may go on, he said, to live until you are 90, but you will be as basically spiritually dead as 90 as you were at 38.
	And, you know, there's something to be said, if you believe in the three school years and ten, of doing anything you can to stay alive longer.
	But there's nothing to be said in that direction when you realise that there is no such thing as death and you're just having a brief experience because that means you are going to do what you know to be right and the consequences can sort themselves out because they're not getting in your way of doing what you know to be right.
	What do we come back to?
	Change perception, change the world because the world is human perception.
	Yes. Yeah.
	There's a... David's book, which is out now, it's available from ours, and it gets into all of these issues at a much more granular level.
	I've only had a chance to look at it for about two hours.
	And it goes deeper into the solution, the answer offered, which, as you've just said, is very, very straightforward.
	It's a question of a change in perception.
	It's not about doing something.
	It's about choosing not to do something and just saying no and drawing a boundary.
	Yeah, life is ever so simple.
	You break down life, and you break down forever life, it's the same thing.
	Choice and consequence. Choice and consequence.
	We make choices, we have consequences.
	They lead to other choices, and they have consequences, and they lead to other choices, and they make consequences.
	And the idea is that you look at the consequences, and you make different choices if you don't like the consequences, and you have nicer consequences.
	But it's choice and consequence.
	Choice and consequence. If we choose to follow the government, we have a consequence of fascist tyranny.
	If we choose not to, we have the choice of freedom.
	It's choice and consequence.
	It's all choice and consequence. The book, by the way, you can get it from davidike.com.
	There's the bookshop there.
	To avoid giving things to Bezos.
	Don't go to Amazon.
	Go straight to davidike.com and look for the answer.
	And don't give any more money to our feudal lords who seem to have enjoyed a great increase in their wealth in the last year or so.
	It becomes more and more difficult, especially when you're trying to get books.
	Because people just sell their books through there and only through there.
	Yeah. If you want the book, then that's where you have to go.
	This is the process of Denying choice.
	So you go to them or you don't get what you want.
	Yeah, exactly. Well, this is the funny thing people are saying about vaccine passports.
	I listened to some utter nitwit on British mainstream media today saying, you have a choice.
	You can either get the passport, be allowed to the pub, or not get the passport, not go to the pub, and that's your choice.
	And I'm sat there thinking, I never heard only having one choice as being a choice.
	That's not a choice. That's an injunction.
	Yeah, I mean, of course, that's not a choice.
	Because, you know, if they're officially in China and they officially want to accept they're a tyranny, then they'll say mandatory vaccinations.
	But if they want to continue the illusion of...
	Of not being a tyranny, which is obviously impossible now, but they try.
	Then they have to say, well, you do have a choice.
	It's just that you can't do anything if you make this choice.
	Yeah, you do have a choice.
	It's anal swabs at Luton.
	Yeah, exactly. Or a vaccine passport.
	Yes. Oh, God.
	Anal swabs at Luton.
	Oh, well. That's the name of a punk band I'm forming this week.
	I'll do it with Gareth. That's a good name for a band.
	Great name. Well, listen, it's been lovely.
	I hope you don't mind. I'm going to plug the seminar I'm going to do with Jamie Ike on the 27th on Iconic, where we'll be talking about these lockdown measures and doing what David has suggested here and trying to push back a little bit and just say no in a calm, sane way without engaging any kind of hysteria.
	But David, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on.
	Thank you so very much for coming on today.
	Yeah, it's been great. I loved it.
	Awesome, mate. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your time and for your attention.
	And I look forward to speaking to you all again very soon.

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