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Dec. 23, 2018 - David Icke
01:00:55
The Non-Binary Elephant Podcast Interviews Croatian MP Ivan Pernar
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I'm a non-binary elephant.
Podcast.
Good afternoon everybody and welcome to the first episode of the non-binary elephant podcast, Malfournet.
I'm Jamie Icke. I'm Gareth Icke.
On today's show we've got Ivan Pernar, Croatian MP. Jay, tell the audience about him.
Born in the former Republic of Yugoslavia in 1985, a Croatian politician currently for the 6th electoral district since
2016.
Started as an anti-eviction activist and took that all the way into Parliament.
He's been very outspoken since he went into Parliament on Croatia's policies towards NATO, the European Union.
He's been outspoken on the Israeli and Palestinian conflict.
And the biggest thing he speaks about, which is what you're going to speak to us today a lot,
is the banking system and how money is created from the very start.
Welcome Ivan to the show.
Jamie nice to hear you and see you.
You too. So I think I've watched a lot of videos of yours in the last few months obviously while we've been researching.
I think one thing I've not seen you being asked is being born in 1985 when it was obviously Yugoslavia.
So growing up through your formative years the change of from a socialist system to a capitalist system.
What was that like for you in terms of how things changed or didn't change or what was better what was worse?
I remember as a child that many things we used to take for granted.
For example, if you were working in some factory, you would get an apartment from that factory for free.
Can you imagine? So socialism had an amazing housing system.
Second thing, if you were working in a...
wherever, there were so-called...
Like hotels for workers on our seaside.
So you could for very little money go there and spend summer with your kids, with your family and so on.
And these two things had instantly disappeared when we transferred to this capitalist system.
And only later did people realize what had happened because they knew what were the failures or deficits of this Let's say socialist system, but they didn't know that there were some good things in it and that they took them for granted.
Yeah, I mean, I spent quite a lot of time last year in Slovenia, up into Croatia a couple of times, Serbia, and a lot of the people there say very similar things, that socialism didn't completely not work, a lot of it did.
There was just things like you couldn't criticise the regime and things that you get chucked in jail for...
For example, in America now, you have freedom to vote for whoever you want.
But still, If you're homeless, you're living on the street.
And the question is how much your vote counts, you know, how much your vote makes a difference, and how much you can actually make a decision.
So what I want to tell you is that there is corruption within a capitalist society and within socialists.
It's just if there is more or less corruption.
Corruption can be 99% or 1%, but there is always a bit of Corruption.
What I can say with the view back is that there were many good things from socialist system but obviously that system had failures and the best system is combined when you take good things from one and good things from another and those who wanted to become elite let's say from this socialist system They have basically turned majority of other people into their slaves.
So instead of creating a society of capitalists, what we have imagined that would happen, we have became slaves of private banksters and few corporations.
And that's reality.
So in this capitalist system, which is per se a democracy, in essence it's not people who Who are being asked for decisions.
Its decision process comes from top to bottom, not vice versa.
And that's what people thought would change with transfer of power from, let's say, one-party system to multi-party system.
What do you think...
You said, obviously, socialism has its negative aspects.
What are the most negative aspects of socialism, in your opinion?
For example, in democracy...
You can, let's say, you have more freedom to criticize government.
Of course, if your criticism is too big, you can also get into troubles.
But I would say like this.
In capitalism, in democracy, you have a system of carrot and stick.
So, John, if you're good, like, we're gonna give you something, you know.
Like, we're gonna bribe you in some way.
But in communism, this stick is much harsher, let's say.
You end up in jail and the carrot is much smaller.
So I would say that the capitalist democratic system is in a way more flexible for criticism of government.
But what's funny is that you can criticize as much as you want, But you can't make essentially a change unless there are many people who are awakened.
And one guy wrote that what the force or let's say jails are for dictatorship, for communist system, socialist, so is propaganda for a democratic system.
So you can have mass media brainwashing people and who opened my eyes on that issue was David Icke, your father, Jamie.
He said that there are people living within the prison but they don't realize it because they are told they are free and more and more I went into that subject.
I realized how we as a society are not free but in as I said in socialist system you can see the bars.
In this Western system bars are generally Yeah, absolutely. An interesting place to start would be at what age you started to have an interest in this and felt like you wanted to do something to create a change and be a positive influence on a younger generation.
Yeah, I remember when I was a kid in my elementary school, teacher said there was some problem with my behavior, and so my parents were called into school.
And the teacher said that my behavior is problematic, and I have said that even a bigger problem than my behavior is five billion, or I don't know, in English we say billion.
I don't know how you say it in English.
It's like we have 100 million and then 1,000 million we call billion.
Yeah, same here, yeah.
Yeah, so in essence, in essence, I have said that greater problem than my behavior is a 5 billion foreign debt of our country and that my behavior is much, much, much less problem than that.
And then our teacher said, well, no, no, this 5 billion foreign debt That's not an issue.
But your behavior is the issue.
And now our foreign debt is 60 billion and still the political elite and the mainstream media, they still say problem is my behavior in parliament and not this 60 billion debt.
And I would say that nothing had changed in between.
When I spoke this thing, I was like 11 years old.
Now I'm 33 and the debt Keeps increasing on a super fast level.
Yeah, I mean if nothing changes and the same thing that's always happened is going to continue on and on, isn't it?
And the problem is that this debt burden will demand more and more sacrifice from society.
In the end people will lose everything.
You can see this transfer of wealth into hands of this privileged elite and on the other hand you will see more and more people who are Hardly making ends meet.
And essentially, this capitalism will end up in a constant fight for survival, where people will have to prostitute their intellect just to stay afloat, let's say.
Yeah, I mean, that happens a lot already, doesn't it?
It happens, and that's the most shocking thing.
And I'm sure if people, if we knew what would happen, we'd transfer from socialism to this capitalist system.
If people knew that capitalism in this system is just for elite, just for the 1% rich and not for the majority, I am not sure if popular will would support such change.
Speaking of change, a lot of people have an outlook, and to be fair I always have done, that it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.
But obviously you're a good man and you've got in.
Is there anything you've felt that you've been able to change from the inside, or has it been like a big brick wall in front of you?
There is a huge brick wall, and I must tell you that it's like a coin.
It has two sides.
But it represents the same thing, like a value of 50 pennies, whatever, one euro.
And so although the sides of coins are different, the idea behind the coin is the same.
It's equal which way is it flip.
And it's the same in politics, like you can flip one side or other side, The policies that are going to be executed will be the same.
But where the conflict comes?
Conflict comes because every time you have government making one policy, that opposition criticizes.
But when the opposition comes to power, they execute the same policy they previously criticized.
So, what that means in the end is that it's not those political parties who have power in the end.
It's somebody above them and he's just using those two parties as left and right foot which steps on you.
Of the same person or the same system I would say.
And very hardly and very rarely do some political parties manage to get in that shim, political shim and who are not controlled and who are expressing their own opinion and so on.
And that's what happened in Croatia.
We had the This left and right foot exchange for 30 years and then came we and now there is a huge problem for the system.
System doesn't know now what to do because this charade, this farce has been, let's say, shown to the whole society.
Absolutely. And I mean, it'd be interesting to go back to the start when you first got into Parliament.
I read a story earlier on today about something that happened in October 2016 when you were asked to meet with some high-level Freemasons who offered you quite a few things to never talk about the banking system and how money is created.
Do you want to tell us about that?
Of course. To be honest, when I was a kid, I had a neighbour.
And that neighbour...
She was a fan of...
I don't remember she explicitly spoke to me about your father, David, but the literature she was reading was very subversive.
And I remember she told me, look Ivan, this Prime Minister who we have now of this party, HDZ, she said, he's not the one making decisions.
I said, how do you mean he's not the one making decisions?
And then she said, look, this government, you see, they are not real rulers.
And I thought that that woman had went nuts, you know, because from all that I have seen on TV and, you know, majority of people, if they have opportunity to be on TV, they would prefer to be, especially people who are on power.
I would say they fight to get on air.
And when you come to these real decision makers on the top, this elite, they are not on TV. And that's the catch.
Because people can't see them, because they don't present them and say, hey, people, it's a swirl over you.
Because of that, people are unaware of them.
And it took me a lot of time to understand the process of money creation.
Only by understanding this process, you can understand what's the hierarchy of society.
And when I was invited by Freemasons, I didn't know they were Freemasons.
And I must say, they were not high ranking, they sent some emissary, you know, like you ain't gonna meet people on the top or on a low level, you know, because at those times, I was still nobody in context of my social position.
I had maybe 10,000 people who followed what I spoke and I was not in Parliament.
I was a, I would say, marginal figure, not important person.
And when we met, they said, Ivan, they said, we want to help you.
They said, Ivan, like, we see what you go through and we can have a fair deal for you.
And I said, like, what do you offer?
And the guy said, well, you know, he said, we have the power and we give it to whom we want to give.
And at that moment, I remember Jesus and the Bible and the New Testament, the moment where devil offers Jesus power if he bows down to him.
And the words of that Freemasons, they were very similar to what devil said to Jesus.
I think it was Matthew Ford's chapter.
And I said, like, sir, but...
I said, okay, it's very nice from you that you want to give me media coverage, you want to give me some money.
It was not a big sum, but I must also say I was not important at that time.
It was like they offered 100,000 euros.
And he said, also, we will help you in a political way somehow.
And I said, oh, that's very nice from you, but what do you want in return?
Because it's all about, you know, every gift is nice to get.
But the question is, what do they want in return?
And he said, well, actually, we don't care about the way money is redistributed.
It means they don't care if budget is spent a bit more or less on this dish.
The thing that is important for us is who creates money.
And we want to be the one who created, and we don't want you to discuss this issue.
We don't want you to question this process of, I would call it, privatization of money as a public resource.
And when I heard it, I said, well...
I would be glad to accept your offer, but by coincidence, I'm also not interested in the redistribution of money, but also in the process of money creation.
So, because I know that if one has control over the money creation, actually he has all the money on this road, because all the money that exists is debt to that person.
So, it's a total control of society.
And... I said, well, I would gladly accept your offer, but as I said, we have conflicting interests, and I think that I have to reject it.
And the guy, he said, well, even it's not smart what you do, and it could have dangerous consequences for you if you reject that offer.
And at that moment, his attitude changed, because in the beginning...
When Freemasons approach you, of course, it's going to be a smiling face.
They're going to say, hey, Jamie, we've got a nice big character for you.
But if you say, hey, sorry, dudes, but I don't want to go your way, then you're going to see their real face.
And their real face is the face that intimidates people, that threatens people, that tries to push people to obedience and compliance.
So... I, as I have said, I have rejected their offer and I have remained a free individual.
Because if I accepted it, if I took the money and what went with it, they could blackmail me.
They could say, Ivan, you screwed us, now we're gonna screw you.
You cheated us for money or whatever.
We can take your life, we can do what we want.
But, as I have rejected their offer in the very beginning, they can't say, we gave you something.
They can't say, Oh, you owe us a favor.
No, I owe you nothing.
You gave me nothing. I don't need to give anything to you.
And I want to say to all politicians who are being approached by Freemasonry to think twice, because if they approach this system, or better said, if they are introduced in it, they will soon realize that Freemasonry It's not about freedom because all the time what they advocate is like human rights and like freedom of personal thinking, choice, like some high-level ideas and so on.
But in essence, this system turns people into compliant slaves and that's what every politician should know.
And for me as a person, Freedom is very important.
If somebody told me, hey, Ivan, you can live in a golden cage if you like, I would say, no, no, sorry, I would prefer to be free than to live in a golden cage.
But there are many people who would sacrifice their intellect, their freedom to express themselves for some worldly favors or whatever.
Yeah, I mean you've probably got different types of people that get into politics.
Some will just be power hungry and if people offer them that then...
People don't go into politics to change the world but only to climb up on a social ladder and its politics is generally about that and I have been so shocked to see many people who went together with me but on the way have went the wrong way.
For example I tell them, look, don't support this budget, don't support this government, and when the moment of vote comes, they offer them something, they tell them, hey, we can do something for you, and then they change their opinion.
And it's so sad to see how people easily, I would say for nothing, for small stuff, they sacrifice their beliefs, and you wouldn't believe, Jamie, how easy is it for few to control the many, and Within the representative democracy, because there are so few people who you need to bribe.
In a big city, there are maybe 50 councillors.
Already you have 20, you need just six more to rule.
Or in a level of our country, we have 151 representatives.
It takes 76 to hold power.
So it's just...
The problem is human corruption.
Human as such are corrupt and you can see it every day.
And of course, if people who are not corrupt, if they don't run for office, if they don't go into politics, if they don't speak out loud, the corrupt people will win.
And what he said for me was when I saw a British politician, he was...
He was speaking about Palestinians a lot.
I forgot his name.
Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps?
No, no, no, not Corbyn.
One guy, other, he spoke against the war in Iraq also a long time ago.
Oh, George Galloway? George Galloway, yeah.
He was an amazing guy.
He was really for the people and he fought against this system.
And the people in his constituency, when he ran for elections, Instead of him, they choose some Pakistani guy.
Not because this guy was against system or whatever.
It was just because they followed the ethnic line.
And we should never look at ethnicity of someone.
We should always look what is this person like.
If this person is good or bad for us.
Is this person serving people?
Is he serving 99%?
Or 1%. And people who don't realize that issue, they are easily manipulated with it.
They just tell them, hey, this Like, for example, George Galway, like, oh, he's an English guy, like, no more for him, like, we have our own.
But they don't realise that our own guy doesn't represent us.
Have you found, like, since you've been in politics that people have tried to...
So I know you mentioned, obviously, with the Freemasons, they said, you know, this is a big mistake, you're not taking the money.
Have you found that there has been any repercussions or any smears or any...
Anything in the media where they're trying to call you out for obviously trying to be for good?
I must just say, when I have said the people have voted in somebody who will serve Freemasonry, you don't need to willingly serve them.
Many people who serve their agenda, they even don't realize they exist.
I could say to serve 1% elite, it would be equal as if I said Freemasons.
So I don't want to say that people are knowingly serving some evil agenda.
They may be not aware of what reality is, and they don't realize that personal benefit for them is uncomparable to damage for society.
And regarding your question, of course there are repercussions.
For example, When I got elected into Parliament, they told me very first few days, they said, Ivan, will you cooperate with us or not?
It was the question.
And the problem that exists is that none of us is perfect.
So if somebody would scrutinize your life, they would find some things which may not be perfect, you know.
And each of us, every human in the world, has made sometimes in their life something that was wrong.
And they use it against people.
They tell them, oh, now if you ain't gonna submit to us, if you ain't gonna serve our system, we will destroy you publicly, we will use media and so on.
And the point is, they don't care that you are, for example, not a good person, because they are far worse than you.
They are much more... If I have one sin, they have a million sins, you know?
It's like...
They are...
It's uncomparable.
But of course the media hide all their crimes and they focus on one, let's say, minor stuff that you have done and they just push it, push it, push it in order to intimidate you and in order to make you submit to them.
And when I have realized that issue, I actually didn't know what to do and It was a so bizarre situation.
Imagine the whole media are destroying you, for example, Jamie.
Everybody says, Jamie's like this, Jamie's like that.
And you realize that's a game.
You know, they don't care what you are like.
The only problem that you have is that you're not willing to serve them.
And I had two options at that moment.
To submit to them, to bow down, or to give maximum resistance.
And I have chosen At that moment in my life.
To say, if you want to fight, I will give you a fight.
I will fight my best.
And I began to...
For example, if I was 40% radical, I became 100% radical.
I just went to the frenzy, I would say.
And when they realized it, they were very surprised.
Because the majority of people in that situation...
They bow down. But when they realized that I was not the kind of person which can be intimidated or forced to compliance, that can be, let's say, like, I forgot the English word for it, but extorted in some way.
Yeah, that would work. Blackmail.
Blackmail. When they realized that they can't blackmail me, at that moment they gave up.
So if you want to remain free person, you must show by your words and by your deeds that you are not person that can be intimidated, that you are not kind of person who will bow down.
So you must give maximum resistance to them and when they see it, in my case, they left me alone.
I think the fact that what's happened to you in terms of since then, your party has grown and grown and grown, that's a testament to what's going on worldwide.
I mean, whatever people think of someone like Donald Trump, for example, the perception that he was anti-establishment and the fact that the entire media pretty much, even Fox to an extent, that are Republican to their bones...
We're having a go at him. He's got no chance.
He can't do this. That perception actually got him elected because I think the human trait is you always believe and want to back an underdog, someone who shouldn't achieve what they achieve.
So, I mean, it's just the fact that it's happened to America, the fact that it's happened to you in Croatia and it's happening a little bit in this country with the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn is people don't want what they're told to want anymore.
They're starting to question a lot more.
I would say like this.
When they attacked Trump, majority of accusations against him were on very private level.
They didn't question his position of federal reserves, for example.
They didn't say, hey, Mr. Trump, why is not the state treasury the one who brings money without debt for American society and American people?
No, they said, oh, Mr.
Trump, what are you like to women, you know?
And then...
And then people saw that actually this media campaign against Trump, it was all about smear campaign.
Like he said, like, you should grab women for a private part or whatever.
And that sounds funny, you know, and that sounds like nonsense, you know, because the issues which we discussed are much, much higher than that.
And when people saw that media...
are going so low against him they thought maybe this guy is not fake like why would they go like that against him if he was one of them and logically there was no reason but of course the conspiracy is very wide and in the end we realized that even him was a part of was a part of how to say Even him was part of the elite.
And that was the biggest shock for many.
And I think that it will take a lot of time to realize that the only thing that separates Trump from the rest of the elite is his temper, his personality.
But regarding political decisions, you can see his attitude regarding Israel.
He is very pro-Israeli, very against Palestinians.
He is against Syria.
He's against Russia, like his predecessors.
So everything is the same.
It's just a position on Federal Reserve.
He didn't question who runs the Federal Reserve systems.
I think with him as well, I think their campaign knew that.
And I think they played to the Alex Joneses of the world and the people that listen to Infowars and stuff.
I must make you laugh now for a second.
I remember Alex Jones.
I liked Alex Jones a lot.
And Alex Jones was saying for years that 9-11 was an inside job, that there was a governmental conspiracy, that the government destroyed this World Trade Center and so on.
And I had a similar opinion.
I also thought that government has to do something with it.
But then came Donald Trump to his show.
And Donald Trump says, oh, it was those Muslim terrorists who brought down the World Trade Center.
And I expected this...
What's the name of this conspiracy theorist?
Alex Jones. I expected Jones to say something.
I expected Jones to say, no, Mr.
Trump, it was an inside job government.
No, he just stayed silent.
And in that moment, I realized that, hey, something is not right.
Something is going the wrong way.
I think a lot of people wanted to believe that Trump was the answer and that Trump was the savior.
They really wanted it to be true.
And, I mean, some of them in America now are still fighting, holding on that he is.
Alex is fighting to the death that he's legitimate, isn't he?
Well, I've seen a video of him this week.
The death will quite soon. Oh, yeah, he's a heart attack waiting to happen, eh?
People believe in what they want to believe, Jamie.
And it's not just a matter of high politics.
It's not about the election of you as president.
It's about the relationship of you with your girlfriend.
If you tell to your girlfriend something that she wants to believe in, she will believe in it.
And so is with the people and with the voters.
If you tell people what they want to believe, they will trust you.
If you tell them something what they don't like, they will reject you, they will attack you, they will not realize that what you are speaking is for their benefit.
So I would say that people, majority, prefers a lie than Truth.
Because lie fits into their, how to say, way of thinking.
And people are not used generally to the truth.
And because truths are hard to handle.
To accept the truth, it takes changes in our lives and so on.
And people, do they want to change their lives?
Do they want to change the way they think, the way they do?
I'm not sure about that, Jamie.
And that's the issue. No, especially 9-11, I think a lot of Americans simply don't want to believe the fact that their government could be behind something because it would make them re-evaluate everything, wouldn't it?
Yes, but of course nobody wants to believe that government would have a sinister agenda.
But still, we must go back and we must think about one real issue.
Is there some glyphosates which are being allowed To be used as herbicides, as total herbicides, and are they good for human well-being?
We had a lawsuit in California that man was awarded millions of dollars for damages.
Oh yes, from Roundup. Yeah, Monsanto.
From Roundup. That's this glyphosate, total herbicide.
And the question would be, but why government doesn't...
Forbid such herbicide.
Or, for example, you can see that many antidepressants have created people insane behavior, suicides, murders.
We have seen that majority of mass shootings, when you go deep, if you study them, you will realize that these people who committed them were taking antidepressants.
So, why would government push antidepressants as a solution?
Or, for example, you have situation of Ibuprofen, it's analogetic, very painkiller, very common, and his effect on children, or better said, on a fetus which develops, is very questionable.
Even in the recipe, they write, it's not good to take it in the last trimester of pregnancy, this painkiller.
But if something is not good at the end of pregnancy, is it good on the beginning of pregnancy?
And what many women don't realize is that they are used to take painkillers, they don't realize that they are pregnant, they still take them, and later they can realize, hey, there may be, for example, a double increased risk of spontaneous abortion.
There may be some deformities in a chart but of course the studies which would imply such results it's very hard to see them in the mainstream media simply the if there is a study which is affirmative for pharma big pharma they would publish it but if the study is a negative it's very hardly it would see the light of today why because big pharma is financing studies and And so, like, if you ask Big Pharma if there can be any side effects for the baby, if this ibuprofen is used within the first six months of pregnancy, I guess they would say no.
And they will not warn you on the package.
But if you see into some studies, you will see it might be dangerous for your child.
And this is just a small example.
of bad regulation, in my opinion, which had in the end resulted with human tragedies.
Same with this herbicide Roundup.
So when somebody asks, like, why would government work against its people?
Well, why not?
If people at the top of power are corrupt, and if they have interest in some agenda, although it's against the people, They would comply with it and they would do it.
And I will tell you one thing.
Do you know why many American women were saved from thalium poisoning from deformed children?
No, go on. Because in the rest of the world, these people who would have to approve such medicine, which in the end everybody realized it was poisonous, that Babies were deformed heavily.
People would very easily allow this medicine to go into popular use.
And in America there was one female.
I think she was a doctor.
And she said, I'm not convinced that there are no side effects.
Can you imagine? And one woman did all she could for a year to stop this drug to get into market.
And on that way When people already began to realize the connection of thalia medius and baby deformities, at that moment she saved thousands of American children from the same fate.
Why? Because she was good, she was honest, and I think her second name was Kelly.
I'm not sure. People should Google that out.
And people like her, there are few in this world now.
Because whoever is just, whoever is following his conscience, he's being removed.
So if...
I will never forget when I watched Professor Noam Chomsky.
He was speaking with one, I think, BBC journalist.
And he spoke with him and the journalist...
It was obvious that the journalist was biased in one way.
And... And the...
Professor Chomsky, he told him, look, sir, you are, how to say, you as a journalist don't have freedom.
You must say what you are told to.
And then the journalist said interesting stuff.
He said, no, I really say what I think.
I'm not pushed to say what I say.
And then I wondered what Chomsky would tell to him.
And you know, Jamie, what he told him?
He said, I believe you really think that way.
But if you were not thinking that way, you would not be sitting in the chair opposite to me now.
So many journalists who think they are free, they are free to say what they think only because they think the way that system, establishment, elite wants them to think.
If they would think other way around, they would soon realize how few freedom they have.
Yeah, and I think when you spend a long time in a media platform, as a lot of people do in their career broadcasters, is eventually you're always having the same thing confirmed to you by other people and you never hear another narrative.
I think a lot of people now are starting to come round to the fact they can't trust their media to effectively, as far as I'm concerned, the media should be what hold the government to account.
The government say something, the media should be the ones that Either disprove or prove that to be correct.
So they're the ones that protect the population from the government effectively.
And that brings us into something quite interesting today along the same lines of tests as you were saying and tests and side effects is something called 5G which I'm sure you're aware of in Croatia as well.
Is that's being brought in to replace 4G as a Wi-Fi network without any testing at all, really.
Because it's so dangerous, and any small-level tests that have been done have shown how dangerous it is, that if there's tests and they show how dangerous it will never come in.
So instead, they're just not doing them.
It's horrifying.
For example, the vaccines.
We know there are many side effects.
But when people are given vaccines, they are not worried about side effects.
So these side effects are generally even not reported.
And it's a huge issue.
But as you have corruption...
I've seen John Viripen.
I don't know. I'm not sure if you know from him.
No, I don't think so. He's, I think, an Indian doctor who worked for Ellie Lilly.
And he spoke about the methods they used.
And I can tell you now, the scientific community, or better said, people who we see as scientific community, I personally am very skeptical to their findings because they are biased.
Because if they have financial interest, how can they be independent?
Or for example, there is a big pharma company coming to you and coming to me and it says, Jamie, If you say this product is good, I will pay you one million for that research.
And they say, but Jamie, if you don't want to say it's good, I will go to Ivan, and Ivan will say it's good, and he will get the money.
And then, even if you are fair, even if you reject the offer, they will just go to somebody else, and he will say, yeah, yeah, it's very good, it's safe, you know.
And it's like, tell you a minute.
It was a fraud of grand proportions.
But sadly, very often, first we have to see side effects to question the medicine which is given.
And that's the human logic.
They vote for Trump.
But then they realize that their lives will not go better.
But only when they realize that their lives are not better off, only then can they realize that Trump was a bad choice.
As long as they don't see it, they will believe it.
And so is in everything.
Same with the technology which you mentioned, this 5G. I believe that it may be dangerous.
And if it's obvious that there are survivors which are saying the same, the question is why nobody's doing anything about it.
And it's obvious that only logical answer is that there is some kind of conspiracy.
But of course, if you point out the conspiracy, they're gonna label you as crazy, madman, and so on.
I think with the vaccines particularly, they play massively on fear.
So my daughter is six months now and the pressure that me and my wife have been put under in terms of having vaccinations, we've said no, I'm 37, I'm not vaccinated and I don't get ill.
Yeah, never mind. But we said no to the vaccinations and they were phoning bi-weekly, every other week on the phone, the local doctors.
Pressuring, pressuring, telling us, you know, horror stories and stuff like that.
Don't give up to pressure, but I will tell you one important issue.
When John Viripan, this doctor, when he spoke, when he brought his child to pediatric and they wanted to vaccine the child, he said, no, no, like, it's a healthy child, I don't want to vaccine him.
And the doctor went crazy and she said, if you don't want to take vaccine, look for another doctor, get up.
And he said, when she told me that, I realized the way I was putting pressure on doctors to prescribe this so-called drugs, you know, legal drugs.
And he said basically that they're not behaving like that because It's their opinion.
They're behaving like that because they have been in some way either intimidated or bribed or whatever, because if they had the knowledge of side effects which can come with vaccines, I'm not sure they would push people into taking that.
And in Croatia, for example, one girl, she took vaccine.
Her fare was gone till today.
Little girl, no hair.
She looks like she has leukemia.
But what happened? She took the vaccine and the government gives no compensation at all.
So if you get screwed up by vaccines, they say, hey, that's your problem.
But when the profit is being divided, they share the cake altogether.
Oh, yeah, of course they do. Yeah, we actually still have a fund here in the UK, which makes me laugh because I've had conversations with people before.
Who say that there's no side effects to vaccines, there's no side effects, and I say, well, explain this government page then.
There's a government page where you explain the side effects and you get your compensation.
You know, that page wouldn't exist if there weren't any side effects.
Well, it's logical.
If there are side effects obvious, how can they say there are no side effects?
But the reason why they do it is because The only way they can push their agenda is if people are not questioning.
And anything which may turn people into questioning is being silenced.
So any kind of opposition is being just lowered down, I would say.
And on our TV in Croatia, they make a discussion about vaccination, but how this discussion looks like, they bring four people who support mandatory vaccination.
And they discuss with each other and they all agree.
So, the first...
I would say that democracy is the first victim of such system.
Because in a democratic society, people would have to be free to discuss.
And in this mainstream media, big pharma business, you can't discuss.
And why you can't discuss?
What do you think, Jamie?
Look at the commercials.
Yeah, who's paying for it? Especially in America.
Look how many big pharma commercials there are.
They say, oh, you have a headache.
It can be poof, gone.
You just take ibuprofen.
Or, for example, you can't sleep.
Oh, you just take this.
Or, for example, you feel depressed.
You feel low mood.
Man, we have instant solution for you.
Just take this drug.
And these drugs are heavily being marketed.
And as a result of it, There are many people who are killed by those drugs every year.
There are many people who have horrific side effects.
But they don't care.
Why? Because they have profit.
And as long as they have profit, their worry for human life is non-existent or very, very...
Little. And even when you get screwed up by these legal drugs and vaccines, they always say, oh, it's your fault.
It has something to do with you.
It doesn't have to do with drugs.
Although before administering those drugs, you have been a healthy person and afterwards you are sick.
But they try to escape from responsibility.
And by repeating, the drugs are safe.
They are basically influencing on people not to report side effects.
Because people would say, oh, the hair didn't fall off for this vaccine that I got two weeks ago, it fell off on its own.
That's the way they want people to think.
Yeah, I mean, that's why my biggest frustration in the world, really, when you look at politics, you look at banking systems, my biggest frustration of all of it is the media.
Because if the media did their job, none of what goes on could go on because it would be exposed in five minutes.
But they don't. And like you say there with having the vaccine debate, they have four people with the same agenda.
You never see an open debate on a mainstream media show where you have two credible people from either side and they're both given a voice.
If by chance they have someone on who's arguing the opposite line to the mainstream narrative, they get abused, they get shouted down, they get personal questions rather than questioned on the research they've done.
It's the same with global warming.
Here in the UK, the BBC had a panel show where they actually had a skeptic that didn't believe in global warming.
And so it was a balanced debate.
You had both sides.
And the BBC got in trouble for it and had to come out and apologize.
It's unbelievable. They apologize in Croatia because once they brought a person who was opposed to mandatory vaccination.
And they attack them, they say, why did you allow this person to speak?
So very often there is a pressure by establishment to shut up anybody who thinks with his own mind.
And that is very, very common these days.
It's a rule.
It's not something extraordinary.
I think that's a massive reason as well behind why a lot of people have, on one side, had enough of the mainstream media and are looking to find their own sources, and on the other side, why people are going deeper and deeper asleep because they're believing what they're told and they're hearing nothing different and they're being treated like idiots.
I mean, my attitude towards the media is you provide both arguments fairly and you treat
your audience with the respect that they're intelligent enough to make their own decision
based on the evidence you give to them.
But the mainstream media, particularly in, I mean, America's, I was there last week,
it's unbelievable the American media, it's even worse than here.
And it's literally like watching a children's program.
They're telling you what to believe.
It's not even subtle.
You know, the media, they are not developing people on a way to make their own opinion.
They want compliant servants.
They want people who will believe what they are told to believe.
Because the The reason why media exists is not to inform us.
The reason why media exists is to indoctrinate us, to brainwash us, to insert in our brains certain ideas and opinions.
And they are a tool of propaganda and entertainment.
That's the secondary role.
So the first is propaganda role, then is entertainment.
And people see entertainment And they don't realize this propaganda element.
And just to explain you how blindly people believe what they see on TV, one guy told me, even TV is a medium which people believe in.
And I asked him, why do you think so?
And he told me, if you, Jamie, If I told you I've seen a dog with five legs, would you believe me?
No. If I tell you, I swear to you, Jamie, I saw it on TV, would you believe me then?
Well, if you told me, probably, because I know you.
But if someone random did, probably not.
But I want to tell you, if you see something on TV, if something is being told on TV, people believe it.
It's so sad, but it is like that.
It is. And I think one thing interesting, coming back to your movement, is what you've done, you've done without the mainstream media, without the support of them, without the exposure of them.
So what is the public perception of you in Croatia compared to the way the mainstream media have covered you?
They have a huge issue with me.
Why? Because they hammer me all the time.
But no matter they hammer me, there are more and more people who follow me.
And at the moment, I'm being followed by...
280,000 people.
And when your father was in Croatia, like a year ago or a bit more, it was just 170,000.
So it's like 110,000 more.
And more people follow, more people begin to question and to think.
And this perception, thanks to that, is changing rapidly.
And the elite, I have no idea what way they plan to How to say, to work in the future.
But they have shown that they have...
They're in panic mode, I would say.
Because why would they...
You know, for example, some people say, this is very interesting thinking, one person told me, even people are too stupid to understand.
Like, these things you're telling them, They can't understand it.
It's in vain. Or they would say like, hey, Jamie, you see what you're doing?
Your father is doing. It ain't gonna make a difference.
People can't understand.
But let's say that that is true.
Let's say that people indeed cannot understand what we speak about.
Can I ask a simple question?
Would there be so much need of censorship then?
No, they wouldn't. If people couldn't understand what we speak, they could just let us to speak live on BBC. Yeah, of course, you realize they're not gonna let us speak there.
The question, better said, the answer is very simple.
Why? Because people would easily understand what we talk about.
So, the most important thing is for people to stop giving excuses for what they For absence of action.
We must act today. Absolutely.
Well said. What you said then, a nice way to almost close up would be, what's your hopes for the future of the party?
Where do you hope to be in five years, in the next election, in the next one, and so on and so on?
I will tell you like this.
Time is running fast.
And you can't believe how fast the mindset of society is changing.
David Icke was an alternative ten years ago.
People begin more and more to listen to his message.
And why do they listen to him?
Because what he speaks seems logical.
And more and more people are exposed to such messages.
More and more people will understand what he speaks about.
And it's the same situation in Croatia.
I decided, I say to the media, you can do whatever you want, but I want to remind you one thing.
You did not create me.
I don't owe you nothing.
You gave me nothing.
I don't need to give anything back to you in return.
And what's very good is that, for example, I have a Facebook page through which I can communicate with the followers.
And on that way, I bypass the media.
I can communicate without somebody As an intermediary.
It's a direct talk.
A person can comment, I can answer on their comment.
A person sends a message, I can answer a bad message.
People ask one question, I answer it publicly.
They can see the way I answer it, what I've told and so on.
And for that reason, the media, these mainstream media are losing influence.
And that's the reason why Trump got elections in a way.
Of course, all this counter-propaganda was also in a way Positive for him.
But still, we all know that the media preferred Hillary than him.
How anyone prefers Hillary Clinton to anyone.
She's a psychopath, I swear.
You know, Hillary is serving the system.
She's serving the system.
And just as every member of parliament in Britain, in Croatia, in America who doesn't oppose this Process of money creation, which turns the whole countries and the whole nations in adept slaves, is actually serving the elite, serving the 1%, serving the Freemasons.
And the problem is that people are not aware of this issue and that's why we must raise them up.
Absolutely well said again.
We've got a little thing we're going to do with every single guest just before we end the interview.
We've got three quickfire questions we're going to ask every single guest.
Ready? If there's ever a film made about your life, who would you want to play you?
I don't know. Keanu Reeves.
My friend says Keanu Reeves.
Keanu Reeves. He's a bit older these days, so I don't think he would be a good actor for me.
But yeah, he seems a cool guy.
Or this Jake Gyllenhaal.
I like him too.
But also he has specific roles he plays.
Okay. Here's the weirdest one.
I'm actually making this up as I go along.
I'm going to have to do it again next week. If an alien race land on Earth and say, take me to your leader, who would you take him to?
I don't know, I've got no idea, because I've never seen aliens.
That's why I'm skeptic in this NLO theory, although I met people who worked on radar stations, and they have realized that there are objects who appear on a radar and disappear.
So, but we say seeing is believing.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I'm the kind of person who wants to see my own eyes.
Alright, last question for me, and then Gareth's got one.
If you could have dinner with anyone in the world, living or dead, who would it be?
It would be Jesus Christ, for sure.
The last dinner! The last supper?
The last supper, yeah.
Okay, final question. So, you've just been named leader of Croatia.
The whole country's behind you, and you're being announced, and you walk out onto stage.
What song do you walk out to?
Write off foreign debt.
I've not heard that song.
I want to erase the foreign debt.
That would be the first thing I would do.
That would be a very good start.
Most countries don't do that, do they?
Yeah, generally they don't.
Cool. Well, thank you very much for joining us.
It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you.
Hopefully we'll do it again and we'll come and see you in Croatia and have a few beers next time.
I hope to be on the premiere of the movie.
Oh, absolutely. We'll get you there, definitely.
See you. Thanks Ivan.
Take care. Cheers mate. Bye.
I enjoyed that. Yeah, me too.
It was a good first show, wasn't it? Yeah, it would do.
Well, it's not really us to decide if it was a good first show, was it?
No, but we can plant the seed in people's heads by suggesting it was a good show.
Well, yeah. They've been listening to us to this point, an hour and a half, and they've obviously not disenjoyed it that much.
So that was Ivan Pernard there.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Absolute pleasure to speak to him.
So it's Sunday the 23rd today, so have a great Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day, everybody, and New Year, because we won't be back until after that.
We'll be back on Sunday the 13th of January with...
Well, fantastic guest, Mark Miller, a comic book writer, behind films like Kingsman, Ultimate X-Men, Kick-Ass, and used to write for DC Comics on Spider-Mans, Batmans and all those, so he'll be a very interesting guest.
Different kind of interview, so we'll be looking forward to that as well.
Yep, and he's Scottish, which means he's got a nice, silky, sexy voice as well.
But he's actually, I found out after watching something from him earlier, he's actually from a little Irish enclave just outside Glasgow.
Irish, Scottish, it's all Celtic, isn't it?
Whiskey. Yep.
Thanks very much everybody. Have a great Christmas and we'll see you in the new year.
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