Del Bigtree’s An Inconvenient Study film, rushed for a Senate hearing after Senator Ron Johnson’s push, reveals Dr. Marcus Zervos’ suppressed Henry Ford Health study showing vaccinated kids 2.5x more likely to develop chronic diseases and six times likelier to have neurodevelopmental/autoimmune disorders—despite Zervos’ pro-vaccine stance and forced mandates. Bigtree argues this exposes systemic vaccine science failures, while critics compare institutional silence to moral betrayals like the Holocaust, questioning utilitarian justifications for suppressing evidence. As HHS Secretary, Bobby Kennedy Jr. cut childhood vaccines from 54 to 23, demanded placebo trials, and targeted harmful additives like aluminum in Gardasil, but faces political risks. Bigtree’s work, now influencing public opinion, challenges medicine’s overreliance on interventions, warning that rushed mRNA tech could backfire catastrophically without rigorous oversight. [Automatically generated summary]
Hey folks, welcome to the Dark Horse podcast Inside Rail.
I have the honor and pleasure of sitting with my friend in studio today.
This is Del Bigtree.
You all know him from hosting The High Wire.
He's also the CEO of the Informed Consent Action Network.
He has a film out recently called an Inconvenient Study.
Is that an inconvenient study?
Anyway, it's an excellent, excellent film.
Send it to all your vaccine true-believing friends.
It will cause them to lose sleep in a good way, and maybe they will wake up from it.
Anyway, welcome to Dark Horse.
It's great to be here.
It's really an honor.
This is a bucketless moment, actually.
Appreciating your work and your podcast.
And, you know, you've been on my show several times, but it means a lot.
Well, I'm really glad you're here.
And I'm especially glad that you made the trip.
It's obviously super inconvenient to get to us here.
And anyway, it's great to have you in studio.
There are always better discussions when they're in person.
I agree.
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So I don't know where we should start.
I've watched your film and I knew a lot of what was there, but I will say it's surprising as someone who is now quite thoroughly steeped in the vaccine shenanigans and propaganda and have had my eyes opened, I still learned quite a bit from it.
I think it's well worth any Darkhorse listener's time to watch it.
What, an hour and a half?
Yeah, short.
I think it's even less.
just about 75 minutes.
I wanted to, part of it, we were making it so quickly.
It was, It was sort of rushed into production because Senator Ron Johnson saw the study.
We can get into the details of how that came about, but the study had been languishing.
I didn't know what to do with it.
I couldn't publish it.
You know, it just didn't seem like that would do anything at all.
But our attorney, Aaron Siri, while I was on a vacation last summer, handed it to Ron Johnson and he said, I want a hearing on this right away.
And so I think he set the hearing for under two months out.
And Aaron called me because we had all of this undercover footage that I'd done interviewing the scientist or having dinner with the scientist that was the head of the study.
And he said, Del, you got to make that documentary now.
And I said, well, how much time do we have?
He said, well, less than two months.
And I said, Aaron, you know, I'd really appreciate if you would do the legal stuff and let me decide, you know, delivery dates for documentaries.
You can't make a documentary in two months.
But he said, we don't have a choice.
Ron thinks the window's closing on his ability to do hearings like this.
There's a lot of tension in Washington, D.C., so he's already scheduled it.
And I think we should have this documentary drop somewhere near that hearing.
And so it forced a speed at which I don't think many people could make a very good documentary.
And I honestly was planning on lowering the bar.
Like I just didn't want to be embarrassed by it.
And I take the products that we put out very seriously.
But I can say that it's one of those things that it forced it.
I actually think it's, I really like the film.
And now when I watch it, I can't think of anything that would change had I had more time.
And that restraint of not having the time, the year I would really like to have on a documentary like that, I think forced us to keep the story really simple and to the point.
And there'd be moments where we would start to get off track and trying to explain COVID and getting to COVID and details.
And then I would, you know, we just say, we actually don't have time for that.
I don't have time to cover it.
I can't make it make sense.
Let's get back to just the story we're trying to tell, the science that hasn't been done, what this study is, why it's relevant and important, and just lose the rest of it.
And you know, I think you know me.
We've been around each other long enough.
I, you know, I have a tendency to probably overstate things.
And, you know, my wife always says you have to know when you've won the argument.
I think an inconvenience study is just a very clear, simple, you know, dictation of what this problem is and why I think this study is very important.
Well, I would never have guessed that it was done under an extreme time constraint.
The production values are excellent.
Yeah, I think it does tell the story very clearly.
I also, as a scientist, greatly appreciated that not only did you cover the strengths of the story, but you preempted the obvious criticisms that are raised by others and pointed out why, though there is a significance there, it is not devastating to the study in question.
And the logic is there.
And what's more, you give us the remedy.
If you don't like the constraints of this study, do the right study.
Right.
The right study is there to be done at any moment.
And there's a reason it hasn't been done, which is that the answer is sure to be devastating to the mainstream narrative.
But maybe we should step back.
You should describe the study in question, where it came from and what happened to it.
Yeah, well, what's interesting about this is it's one of those, you know, as you're sort of fighting a battle, you plant seeds, you don't know where they're going to lead, what's going to turn into fruit or not.
But this study takes me back to the very beginning of my jump into this vaccine hesitancy or medical freedom space, anti-vaxxer, if we're going to just throw the ultra sort of at it.
I was touring with the documentary Vaxed, which I executive produced and made that released early 2016.
I left my job at CBS working on the talks for the doctors.
I was a producer on that show.
I won an Emmy Award.
So producing medical science information as sort of entertainment is, you know, my, I guess, my special skill.
But Vaxed was sweeping the world, really.
And we were on a tour with a bus that had VAX on the side of it, and people were signing the names of their injured children or, you know, family members who were deceased after a vaccination.
And, you know, I was learning a lot.
The film, Vaxed, was just about one vaccine, MMR vaccine, measles, mumps, rubella, and its potential connection to autism and a whistleblower at the CDC.
If people haven't seen it, I think it's also a very good movie.
But we were going to be pulling up through Detroit, Michigan, and somebody reached out.
I didn't know who they were, but they said, look, I'm a huge fan of Vaxed, and I know the head of infectious disease at Henry Ford Health.
Would you be interested in having dinner?
And I said, well, yeah, of course.
That'd be super interesting.
And so I had dinner with Dr. Marcus Zervos and really nice guy who sort of surprised me.
He started, you know, this is something that, you know, you and I have been at different parts of this debate over the years and this conversation.
But back in 2016, when I was having this dinner, he said, you know, I watched your film, which I was impressed by.
It's clearly not, wasn't going to be, you know, talk about what he'd be interested in or at least believe in.
And he said, you know, it's a very compelling film.
He said, but you've been saying something on this tour with this film.
Like I looked you up.
I've been watching your YouTube videos that I found very disturbing.
You keep saying that they've never done the proper science to establish safety on any of the childhood vaccines.
And he said, so I sit on the biggest databases in the world.
I went and, you know, did my research so I could show you what you're wrong about.
And he said, and I'm shocked that I have to sit across from you and tell you you're right.
Well, we'll just pause you right there.
One, I want to know where, what was your perspective when you were working at CBS before you had delved into the MMR vaccine?
Yeah.
Well, I think it's important to note that I'm not vaccinated.
So at all.
My mom was a really like, I mean, my parents were ex-hippies or had, you know, come out of the 1960s.
My parents marched in Chicago.
I was raised very much with that sort of rebellious advocacy for freedom of speech, freedom of education, anti-war, you know, all of that.
And somehow in that, my, you know, I was, we were very health conscious, all, you didn't think of organic food, but we ate like, you know, mostly macrobiotic and things like that.
But my mom didn't vaccinate me.
And it wasn't something, she didn't do it with some deep, I wouldn't say she was like a deep medical researcher.
And it was just how I was raised.
I didn't think a lot about it.
I remember the moments where I was, you know, coming out of homeschooling and going into a public high school.
And the principal was, you know, my mom would drag me to, you know, one of the things I appreciate about her.
She didn't fix the world for me.
She brought me to every conflict she had and wanted me to see what had to happen there.
And she's like, they don't want to let you in the high school come with me.
And it started as a little kid.
There'd be times like, I don't want to go.
I know what this is going to be.
It's going to be you in some really awkward, you know, space.
And so she dragged us to all those things.
But I remember her saying to my principal, you know, he said, we have a mandate for vaccines in this school.
It's Boulder, Colorado.
She says, yes, but the state has a, I think it was a personal belief exemption.
We have that exemption.
She's like, but there's no one in the school who's unvaccinated.
And I'm putting my foot down on this.
And she said, let me ask you something.
You know, all your kids are vaccinated, right?
Yes, you believe the vaccines work.
He says, Yes, of course.
She's like, Then what harm is my son going to do if he comes to school here?
I mean, what risk is he if the vaccines work?
And he did not have an answer to that.
And, you know, I wouldn't say my mom was the world's best debater, but I was really impressed in that moment.
And sure enough, he's like, okay.
And so I got into the school.
All that to say, I don't, you know, so when I was working on the medical talk show, the doctors, my mom would call me and say, what are you doing working on a medical talk show?
You've never been to a doctor in your life.
And I, you know, I said, you know, for some reason, I feel like this is supposed to where I'm supposed to be.
I feel like I'm a little bit of a Trojan horse because I didn't buy totally into the medical establishment.
I didn't grow up in it.
I wouldn't say, I just, a lot of the stories I was doing for CBS and on the show were challenging the system.
I was interested when a drug was being recalled, why it took so long.
How to get a proof of safety to begin with.
When glyphosate was ruled to be probably carcinogenic to human beings by the WHO, I was like, oh, I want to get to the bottom of that story.
And I'll tell you, you know, one thing, less about medicine, but Monsanto, like that was Satan in my family.
I mean, from for years and years, all the stories of organic farmers who had the seed blow over onto their farm and Monsanto is suing them.
I hated that company.
And so when I saw this moment where Monsanto is being accused essentially of spraying things on 90% of our crops, it is probably carcinogenic human beings, which is the second highest cancer rating there is, second only to does cause cancer.
The beauty of that show was I could reach out, which I did to Monsanto and say, hey, look, you're, you know, WHO is saying your product probably causes cancer.
Would you like to defend it on our television show?
And I had a sense that they felt like it would be a safe platform for them.
The doctors is a medical show.
We're sponsored by, they just didn't know that the hippie, the son of the hippie kid, is in here.
And so they agreed and sent Donna Farmer, head of toxicology, to the show.
And I reached out to Jeffrey Smith, who had written books about Monsanto and had a debate on the show.
So those are the types of things, just to give you an idea.
I was very controversial.
I was a little older than most of the producers on the show.
My career kind of got a late start.
So I was really into venturing into deeper discussions than that show I think was designed to be having.
But because of that, I was the highest rated producer on the show.
I was really getting a free ride for the most part.
My producers would just say, I don't even understand this story.
What's going on with Monsanto?
I was like, trust me, this is a big deal.
And so all that being said, the vaccine issue wasn't one that I was focused on at all.
And I hadn't covered it at all.
But I did, I was doing a really complicated story about children, babies that were being taken away from their families and based on what were supposed to be fractures in bones from infant abuse.
And there was this radiologist who had written a whole paper on how he believed it was rickets, that it wasn't child abuse, that this was a form of rickets.
Infants that are born when their mothers were vitamin D deficient, especially African-American mothers, they were forming these things that looked like fractures that were filled with calcium.
But he's like, this is rickets.
Fascinating story.
And but while I was talking to him, his name was Dr. David Ayub.
While I was interviewing him for that story, he said, look, you probably shouldn't have me on your show.
And I said, why?
And he said, well, because I'm considered a quack if you look me up online.
I was like, why is that?
He's like, well, I'm one of these doctors that believes that vaccines cause autism.
And I said, oh, but this story has nothing to do with that.
He's like, I know, but it probably could undermine my credibility.
I was like, I'll worry about that.
And then he said, would you ever cover that story?
And I said, you know, this show is pretty set on the fact that vaccines are safe and effective.
And we had a bad run-in with Jenny McCarthy, which has made things complicated around here.
So look, if there's a big sea change in that conversation, let me know.
And so he's the one that a year later called me and said, there's a whistleblower in the CDC that's coming forward and saying they're committing, you know, fraud on the vaccine safety studies, specifically MMR, autism.
And that ended up being vax.
So that triggered, and that's a long, I didn't mean to get that deep into it, but I don't really, it's important to know I do come at it with a bias.
Well, I mean, I want to actually push back on that in a strange sense.
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What I hear in your story is if I take your story and I take what I now know, the burden of proof was reversed.
We were sold the idea that vaccines are safe and effective.
I think all normal people assume that that must be the result of large studies that have demonstrated a net benefit to these things.
And we don't check, right?
It would be arduous to go look at all those studies and, you know, how much would you need to understand to actually figure each one out just to determine that, of course, they were studied against an inert placebo and showed themselves to be beneficial, right?
That's what I would expect.
And so anyway, the burden of proof was subtly reversed on us, where if you believe these things aren't safe, then the burden's on you to show it.
And of course, who are we to do that?
What technology do I have?
What funding do I have?
What access to information do we have?
In light of the fact that the studies weren't done, the obvious natural response is I'm not going to allow you to give me a technology I can't assess that hasn't been assessed for safety when the human body is built to deal with infectious disease.
So the point is the burden is on them to really establish that it is safe.
And in the absence of that, your mom's approach, which you took on passively, is the logically natural one.
It's not a bias.
It's the precautionary principle being applied correctly in a system where most of us don't understand that this is the direction the precaution goes.
Most of us assume that taking the vaccine is the precaution rather than I don't know what's in that.
I don't know how well it works.
I don't know what unintended nonspecific effects it's going to induce.
Right.
So anyway, I don't really hear it as a bias.
I hear it as your family had the natural intuition.
And raised me with a natural skepticism.
My mom was incredibly skeptical of any industry that said that it could make you healthier or safer.
And, you know, I was, I mean, the principle in my house was always question authority.
I mean, always.
And that's not an easy way to raise kids because the only authority around is my parents.
And so it was a fairly loud and volatile home in a good way, not like, but just we had loud arguments at tables.
We were, you know, I would be invested in perspective and we'd be, you know, I was debating inside of our household from a very young age.
Well, my household was the same.
Yeah.
Very skeptical of corporate motives and interventions.
Strangely, I think medicine got an exemption for some reason, that there was a belief, you know, there was simultaneously this sort of skepticism of authority, but also a belief in science.
And so when you see, you know, when you see this thing that is dressed up as if it is the pinnacle of our scientific achievement, and that not only is it wonderful what insights it's brought, but it's actually providing us the ability to avoid horrible medical fates that used to exist.
And, you know, it's not that there aren't those instances.
Nobody dies of gangrene anymore.
Right.
That was a pretty rotten way to go.
So there was, I think, too much faith in the medical system with respect to technology.
Well, because there was assumption it was being scientific.
Right.
But totally unjustified.
Just below the surface.
I mean, what's fascinating, because I would say my family came at things probably from more of a spiritual, religious perspective.
You're created brilliantly.
You don't need things outside of you to make the body healthier.
And so that was the perspective.
But that takes faith and that takes, you know, some belief in whatever, you know, dogma you're following.
And when you think about science, science was supposed to rid us of the need for faith.
It was supposed to answer the questions that couldn't be answered and get us out of this very vulnerable, humbling experience inside this cosmos and start empowering us with facts and learning and ability to question and answer.
And I mean, you've done so much, so many great podcasts on this, but it is shocking.
I mean, for me, diving into this, I was covering issues and being skeptical on a lot of different topics, getting into this one and then really becoming a specialist in it.
I think as a journalist, I don't think anyone's put more time into one single investigation for me, which is vaccines.
And even more specifically, not just like we hear safe and effective.
I didn't care about the effective part.
You know, once I made vaxxed and started seeing these giant audiences that would stand up every time and say, who in here has a vaccine-injured child?
And that was happening five shows a day, five days a week for an entire year.
I'm watching three quarters of the audience stand up.
And I'm thinking, how have these people been hidden going down that rabbit hole and then really studying how this whole thing happened?
Then, of course, you start going, whoa, what other science am I assuming was done correctly?
And I'm in a very, I mean, I'm in a place where, you know, when I talk to, you know, Peter McCullough or Paul Merrick or Robert Malone, doesn't matter.
They're all starting to come to the same conclusion.
Like everywhere I look, it's the science wasn't done.
Well, I have a suggestion for you.
You feel free to ignore it, but I'm pretty sure that there would be a great documentary if you were to take all of the people who have arrived in this location, most of us unsuspecting that there was anything to find.
I mean, I vaccinated my own kids.
Yeah.
Right.
And, you know, it's not that I was in the dark about the possibility of hazards.
We delayed every vaccine we could because the idea in our minds was the more development that has passed before something goes wrong, the better off you are, which is probably true.
But even with that level of skepticism already present, we just missed the boat with respect to how much potential harm there was here.
So, you know, my story, as I've told you personally, it's a little embarrassing how much I missed, how much I took on faith that was completely unwarranted.
And how I arrived more or less kicking and screaming in the exact inverse camp where I never thought I would be.
I was a real believer that vaccines, even though they carried risks, were a, you know, a beautiful, elegant intervention that had the ability to just load information into your immune system that would allow you to fend off a disease that might otherwise harm or kill you.
By the way, perfectly brilliant idea and wonderful.
I love it.
I love that as well.
The one in the textbook is great.
And the one in the textbook is perfectly safe because it's on paper and it's theoretical.
But anyway, what I would imagine would be the documentary I want to see is one in which all of the people who have had an experience like that one.
And Bobby famously had this experience.
He did not want to end right there and reluctantly just couldn't turn away.
But if you documented all of those stories of how did I end up, you know, as a terrible person who believes unforgivable things, What it would do is it would model for people who cannot conceive that those of us who are now raising the alarm about vaccines, they can't imagine we could possibly be right.
But if they understood that there's no eagerness to arrive in that camp, it's a horrifying discovery.
And it's good people destructive.
I mean, it lacks self-preservation in its journey.
It takes over your life.
It takes over your reputation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Yeah.
So let me zip back in.
So Dr. Zervos, I'm traveling with Vax.
I've made this documentary.
And he says, I haven't, you know, we didn't do the study.
So I'm shocked to find that.
But he said, it doesn't mean that I'm, that vaccines aren't safe.
It just means we can't say that they're safe.
I said, yet you do on every television show, 24 hours a day, every news agency.
I mean, it is, it's the mantram of all mantrams, safe and effective, safe and effective.
And he essentially, he said, I don't, you know, I don't know what we're doing here.
I don't know what I can do to help you.
I was like, well, would you ever consider, you know, doing a vaccinated versus unvaccinated comparative study to get to the bottom of it?
I want to know if we're wrong or we're right.
I mean, vaccines make us healthier.
Certainly you would see it there.
And he agreed to do that study.
And so the film's just about how long it took him to talk him into it.
But cutting to the chase, the study is horrific, what it discovers.
And, you know, in all the conversations we've had, like that was in the back of my mind.
But I couldn't, you know, I think you and I sort of, we were agreeing on COVID.
We're in Bath, England, and we had a, you know, a very memorable dinner, actually, where I learned a lot, but you were saying I shouldn't be dragging all vaccines into this conversation at that moment in one, you know, one way.
And I knew I had this guy that was, you know, I think at that point had probably done the study, but was sitting on it, or we were about to get it done.
But what makes this study so important to me, Bret, is I think it is, it is the scientific method.
The scientific method, to me, demands that your opposition get to be the one that take the shot at your hypothesis.
And we really haven't had that situation.
I didn't go to, you know, there are other vaccinated versus unvaccinated studies, you know, by Brian Hooker and Neil Miller and great guys, by the way, but who were already maybe somewhat like me, already somewhat skeptical of the vaccine program.
At least they get accused of that when the outcomes turn out the way that they do.
My goal and the dream of a lot of people like me, as soon as you wake up to this, like we've got to get someone from the other side to do this study, someone that believes that vaccines are completely safe, the greatest invention and have them do that study so that they sign off on it.
Because if it's going to be a problem, they'll see it too.
And so when he agreed when Zervos, who brags in the footage that I have of him of, I'm the reason we force vaccinate every employee at Henry Ford.
So you can't really get more pro-vaccine than that.
And so to have that guy do the study and ultimately come out with just very quickly for those that haven't seen it, 2.5 times more likely to have a chronic disease if you've been vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated.
It's about 18,500 kids, nearly 2,000 of them unvaccinated, six times more likely to have neurodevelopmental disorders, nearly six times more likely to have an autoimmune disease.
In almost every major health category, the vaccinated are flailing and the unvaccinated seem almost untouched or very light, you know, small group of people with issues.
And so to me, no single retrospective study that I'm very clear about in the film can really answer any question for us.
But of all the red flags that have ever been thrown up, it would be as if when you and I were arguing, you went and did the study.
I mean, someone that just says, I don't believe you, then they go and do the study.
I have to assume whatever bias you can put into your science, which I do think bias affects outcomes, it had to be for the other side.
And the fact that this study cannot does the opposite of showing that vaccines are safe and that the unvaccinated are the ones in danger.
It's so incredibly lopsided that the vaccinated are coming out with incredible health issues.
And I think the scale on it that was really is looking 10 years out that a vaccinated child had a 57% likelihood of having a chronic disease and an unvaccinated child only had a 17% likelihood.
I don't know if we're ever going to have, I mean, without, I don't know how we're ever going to have a moment this honest again.
I mean, if Bobby does this study, they'll say, oh, well, it was his bias was involved, even if he brings in other scientists.
It's why I never published this study.
It's why, I mean, I kept begging him to publish it because I wanted everyone to know this is from your side.
This is from the people that believe.
And this film's as close as we can get.
Yeah.
No, I think a robust discussion is worth the spoiler here.
But the tragedy of your film is that, is it Dr. Zervos?
Do I have his name right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That he does the study, as you say, expecting it to come out demonstrating the safety and utility of vaccines.
And not only does his study show the exact inverse of that, but he does not come to question the study itself.
He says it's a good study.
It's not perfect.
I would publish it, you know, under ordinary circumstances as it is, but refuses to say so publicly.
And you actually, it's regrettable that you have to use a journalistic tool like, you know, covertly filming him over dinner in order to hear what he actually has to say.
But the fact that he rightly understands that if he publishes this study, it will be likely career ending.
Yeah.
But I have to say, as somebody who has made some career-ending decisions and had to start a new career a couple times now, this is terrifying because he knows that the result of him not ending his career by publishing this very jarring study is that children will continue to be maimed.
Career-Ending Decisions00:15:02
And in my book, there's no, I mean, you know, you can imagine Nazis at death camps saying, well, I mean, this is terrible, but you don't expect me to end my career.
And the answer is, yes, I do.
I expect you to end your career.
And many of us have.
So I'm, you know, I'm troubled by the cowardice that results in the study not being published.
I think you've done admirable work bringing the study to a kind of attention that it might not even have gotten if it had been published in a normal sense.
Yeah, I think that's true.
And it opens the door.
And of course, I have heard all of the critiques about retrospective studies and differential sizes of the essential, essentially the control group versus the treatment group.
But, you know, you also talk about in the film the sensitivity analysis and the fact that if you correct for some of the obvious defects of the study, it does not radically alter the conclusion.
No.
That is, it's powerful.
And as I said up top, if you don't like this study, you know exactly what study you have to do.
That's it.
Right.
And that Pokemon, we're past the point now where you get to just poke holes in, it used to be an argument.
Now you're poking holes in science.
Like the science is being done.
It's been done nearly 10 times by what you might call biased scientists that were skeptical of vaccines, but it's been done.
And now with Henry Ford and Dr. Zervos, I guess I have to be careful.
They have threatened defamation case.
So I have to make it clear that it's my opinion that they are a pro-vaccine institution.
They say it's not fair for me to describe them that way.
So it's strange flex on their part.
The position they want to take is you're not allowed to call us a pro-vaccine, even though they took out like a whole page, like pro-vaccine statement during COVID.
But okay.
And, you know, but I want to be careful to say, and I'm not careful about what I'm putting out, but the accusation is that I could do great harm to their institution.
And they want it to be known that the reason Zervos did not publish that study was because it's not a good study.
The data is flawed and it didn't meet the scientific rigors that are standards that they are used to at Henry Ford Health.
That's the statement that they've sort of made and put out.
Now they put all of that out prior to knowing that I had undercover footage of Dr. Zervos saying exactly the opposite.
Right.
So, okay, on the one hand, you've got the evidence.
Right.
You've got the author of the study saying it's a good study.
I'd put it out as it is, but I won't do it because I'm not ready to end my career over it.
But I would also, I would just level the challenge at them.
Don't you dare tell me that that study isn't good and that's why it didn't get published unless you're already planning to do the right study.
Correct.
Or why didn't when this study, which it's, it's your database.
Like if the data is flawed, it's the data you're using to do all the studies that you're funded to do.
It's your database.
It was the cohorts born into the Henry Ford health system.
And by the way, I mean, you're probably aware of this.
It's better than the VSD that Bobby dreamed would exist when he got the job as HHS secretary that he could use because it doesn't just track, you know, ICD-10 codes inside of Henry Ford Health because they're also the insurer even when kids left.
So it's a very robust data set that they were able to use with all the information you dream to have.
But why was the response not, hey, Dr. Zervos, even though we trusted you with the hydroxychloroquine study, even though we trusted you with the Moderna trials, we're a little bit suspect of this potential study.
Why didn't they come in and make the adjustments that should have been made?
I mean, inside of their own internal peer review, why do you throw an entire study in a wastebasket?
The study design is the design set up by the CDC.
They had never done this study, were funded to do the study and decided we'll spend the money doing a study on how to do a study of vaccinated person vaccines.
The whole, I mean, you get it.
The cat and mouse game has been ridiculous, but you're taking a million dollars still.
Maybe it's a half a million they spent on how to do the study.
And then they copy that Henry Ford Health, which would be a great protocol to accept.
This is what our own government said would be the way to do it.
You, you know, you bring every parameter against it, you know, cox proportional hazards.
You're doing sensitivity analysis and challenging.
You can tell they're trying to give you the most conservative view of this as you can.
But why didn't they fix whatever problem they saw?
I mean, that's so you just make a habit of stopping three quarters of the way through a scientific process and throwing something in the garbage.
That's not a very good strong defense for their institution either.
No, no, it really isn't.
And, you know, in light of, I would say, a vast quantity of evidence that there is a real honest to goodness problem.
If that evidence is incorrect for some reason, it is certainly in our interest to discover that right away.
Because if it is correct, I don't know, today, kids are being vaccinated.
And, you know, I will just point out, and my audience is well aware of this, but Heather and I were strong believers in the benefit of vaccines.
I still believe that it is likely that there are some vaccines that make sense under some circumstances.
There may be vaccines that make sense to give every child, but I don't trust any of the evidence given what I've now seen.
You know, I would, I would take a rabies shot if I thought I had been exposed, but I would do so knowing that I was taking a substantial risk.
Yeah.
And I would alter my behavior in the aftermath of it.
I would be very careful what I ate for a good long time so as not to be triggered into some state that was unnecessary.
But in any case, the possibility of good vaccines exists.
Sure.
I don't think you would deny it.
I wouldn't deny it.
But they have broken the system of trust with fraud.
That's what's fraudulent in every corner.
Yeah.
I mean, there's not, there's no part of it that you can't pull a vaccine out and say, oh, this one, this one they did right.
Here's a good study on this.
You can't find it.
No, anywhere where the question was opened, the game was rigged, including absurdities like the supposed demonstration of the safety of aluminum adjuvants, which when you look at what they did is preposterous.
I mean, it's so bad that the first time I heard Toby Rogers describe what had been done, I was sitting there thinking, either this person is off his rocker or something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Because there's no way that what he's saying could possibly have been the demonstration of safety for this.
So, you know, I didn't know what to think at the end of his talk, but I went and checked and it turned out he was right.
And so it was like, oh, my God.
Well, very quickly, I mean, what was, you know, what are you referring to so that we can hold this whole thing?
the four Angora rabbits, the data for one of which was apparently misplaced and pathology showed up in a couple of the rabbits, if memory serves.
So the point is, look, four ain't enough rabbits to demonstrate safety.
If nothing had happened to any of those rabbits, it wouldn't tell you aluminum adjuncts are safe.
But that's not what happened to the rabbits.
And the idea, you know, we didn't even, they lost the data on one of the rabbits.
I mean, how exactly did that happen?
And why was that not the, you know, if you thought four rabbits was enough and you lost the data on one of the rabbits, you would then discover, oh, well, then three isn't enough.
And you would realize actually, you know, 300 wouldn't be enough.
So you would end up doing a correct study if that was your intent.
On the other hand, if your intent is to have a reference that you can go to when you say aluminum adjuvants are safe, and then you can reference some paper and nobody bothers to go look at it to discover that it was actually nonsense.
You're not trying to figure out if it's safe.
In fact, you're trying to avoid something you fear would show up in such a study.
I mean, that's, I mean, and I get accused of being a conspiracy theorist.
Some of you look at my Wikipedia page.
If that doesn't even exist, AI, I think, jumps into so quickly.
Does Wikipedia even exist anymore?
But whatever.
It's a horror show.
It's been a horror show.
I'm like this conspiracy theorist.
But the truth is, is I really have, I always give the benefit of the doubt.
I try to just imagine.
I think most of these people think they're doing what's right.
They believe in what they're doing.
But, you know, when you really drill down on Paul Offit or these people, they at the point at which you have got to do bad science or can't recognize this is so obviously poorly done.
You would never accept this in anything, any other form part of your experience.
Why are you accepting this?
And then you're clearly, looks like hiding something.
And if, because I keep thinking, and I, and I say this all the time, I believe Paul Offit vaccinates his kids.
I think Bill Gates vaccinates his kids.
I think these people believe in what they're doing on some level.
I can't prove it.
And I have tons of followers that will say, you're crazy, Del.
They're injecting themselves with saline.
Maybe they are, but this is the place where once you have to hide something, hide bad science or hide a result, then how can you believe in what you're doing anymore?
Why isn't your own confidence in this process shaken by the fact that you're coming up short?
There's a recent in the very Ron Johnson hearing that this study was discussed, Jake Scott, this doctor, shows up.
He shows up for one job and one job only to refute this idea that there's been no placebo-based trials of any of the childhood vaccines.
And he knows he's going to be across from Aaron Siri.
And at this point, anyone in this space knows Aaron Siri is coming loaded for bear.
You know what I mean?
And when the guy hands out his 661 studies or whatever, expecting, I mean, are you still in this world we expect we're all going, oh my God, he's got 661 studies.
There it is.
And then Aaron just destroys 560 have not have nothing to do with the childhood vaccine program.
They're out, you know, 50 of them and just, you know, down to you have zero.
And then his response, I mean, I use this video in talks all the time.
His final response is, well, I'm really surprised if you did that, you know, if you did all that investigation because we haven't even looked into the studies ourselves.
I mean, that's, that's, he shows up to win an argument and ends with, I struggle to believe that you ripped through our studies that much because we haven't even looked at them yet.
And you run into that.
Like the ego or hubris or like that that would allow you to just say, you were just supposed to bow down to this evidence and not question it or look into it.
But then Jake Scott, the next day will post, this is a lie, there's no place.
Like, you just lost this argument on public television.
We all watched it.
Your studies, unless you can, and they don't do, Brett, what you expect to do.
Like, look, I know when I've lost the debate, I have to go get my evidence, check it, or say, oh, I forgot to present this, or here's what was missing, or here's how you got this wrong.
None of that.
They never bring any of that.
It's not like Aaron Siri was wrong.
Here's the study.
He just keeps posting the same 661 studies that were just destroyed on an international, you know, public way and is going to stick to that story.
And that's what I can't understand about a human being.
Well, it does remind me of the song, That's My Story, and I'm Sticking To It.
Because, I mean, that song is intentionally ironic, right?
You remember the song?
No.
Colin Ray has told his girlfriend, I guess, that he had fallen asleep in the hammock in the yard.
And that's why he wasn't home until all hours of the night.
And she says, you don't know it, boy, but you just blew it.
And he says, well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
And it turns out she had put the hammock in the attic.
And so she knew there was no hammock anyway.
But it's that.
The point is, and Colin Ray just continues to stick to his story because he doesn't have an alternative.
And Dr. Scott, when I saw what happened to him, right?
I thought, oh, boy.
It's as close to an American public caning as I think we've ever seen.
Right.
But it does tell you, you know, we can differ over how much Paul Offutt understands about the lies he's telling.
But Dr. Scott was a believer.
And the interesting thing, which you're pointing to, is that even in the moment when Aaron Siri reveals to him that what he's saying is not true, it does not cause him to update because he, some part of him is thinking, oh, God, I'm going to end up on that team of people that I know are evil.
Oath and Self-Correction00:03:46
I can't do that.
And so he's just stuck in, well, I'm just going to keep doubling down on all of the stuff that just evaporated in front of me.
And what it really speaks to is a brokenness in the heart of science and medicine, where once upon a time, scientists and doctors, and doctors were scientists, by the way, they're not anymore, but they were.
They had a commitment to the truth.
They had a commitment to the patient that overrode all other considerations.
And unfortunately, the system that we've built now trains them to be subservient to something else so that when a patient, you know, just as you saw with Dr. Zervos, okay, kids who have not yet been maimed are on the line.
You're moved, Doc.
Are you going to publish this story and fall on your sword?
Or are you going to continue to pretend that what you used to believe before running this study is still true?
Right.
What are you going to do?
And the answer is, well, you don't expect me to lose my career, do you?
And the answer is, well, wait a minute.
You're in a profession that has an oath.
Yeah.
That's not common, right?
Oaths are serious things.
They're effectively above the law.
And to reveal that actually either you don't know what's in that oath and you just went through it pro forma or you don't care what's in the oath is to reveal that you're not really a doctor.
And I see the same thing in science too.
I think the number of people who publish things they don't believe in, don't have a deep relationship with the scientific method, they're kind of going through the motions.
And if it looks like science, you know, if it takes place with the right glassware and, you know, the right lab coat, then it's probably scientific.
And it certainly is if it, you know, got published in a journal and was peer-reviewed.
Well, your peers wouldn't have signed off on it if it wasn't science.
So yes, they would because they're faking too.
And it is that loss of commitment to higher principles that is breaking out across the entire system.
And it has frankly, it has allowed interests that are so obviously at odds with the well-being of the public to take over, right?
It should not be a surprise to anybody that pharma would be willing to sell some drugs that might not be in the interest of the patient to take them.
Of course.
Fiduciary responsibility to shareholders.
It's right there.
It's their actual legal commitment.
So given that, you would expect it is normal for corporations to try to make money however they can get away with it.
It is normal for us to view them with skepticism.
It is normal for us to want independent scientists to check anything that comes out of that corporate environment.
And instead, what we have is a fusion of the corporate environment with these former sciences, and it spits out a product that sounds and looks like science, but just isn't.
And you know what?
The fact that it looks like science doesn't make it work.
And the fact that it doesn't look like science doesn't make it fail.
If it adheres to the scientific method, it works.
It's self-correcting over time.
It doesn't matter if you're wearing a lab coat or, frankly, I did my graduate work in rubber boots with a machete, right?
It may not look like science to you, but the point is you either applied the method or you didn't.
That's the question.
We've just lost that commitment.
Justifying Moral Compromises00:15:44
Well, I mean, I can speak to better than, I mean, you're a scientist.
I'm not.
I've write about them.
I've interviewed them.
I've studied these studies.
I know how to make, like, I'm like Bobby Kennedy.
No, I'm not a doctor, but I know how to read a, you know, a study.
But I can speak to journalism and it has the same horrific and probably more dangerous result, which is, I think, the greatest problem in the world today, certainly in America, is media.
We live in a, we would be much better off if we lived in China and just knew that our news is lying to us.
It's really unfortunate that in this country we think we're getting anything, any semblance of actual information.
And I am, I cannot explain the motivation similarly of my fellow journalists who I do interviews with all of them.
You know, they ring my phone off the hook.
What's Bobby up to?
What's going on?
Because I'll answer knowing that it's a hit piece and you'll call me a crazy anti-vaxxer.
But I can tell they're starting to really shake and I'll look them right in the eyes.
Major writers from New York Times, Washington Post, Atlantic, just the other day sat down and I say to them, I don't understand how you're doing what you're doing.
I don't understand it.
You're a journalist.
And I go way outside the boundaries of what someone's trying to get an idea.
Like if I should really just stick to four talking points that they'll just say it over and over again, that they'll publish so I make sure I can make the point to the public I'm trying to make.
I can't do it.
I sit with these journalists and I just say, I need you.
You got to search your soul right now.
And I try every attempt with them throughout every question they want me to answer.
But why do you think Bobby's doing what he's doing?
I mean, and I'll say to them, what happened to, you know, just like science, our job is to forever be skeptical.
We're not supposed to work for the government.
We're not supposed to work for any industry.
We're supposed to ask difficult questions and challenge them.
What happened to that?
And then like lawyers, you're supposed to be working towards a motive.
What is the motive?
You can't tell a story if you don't understand the motive.
And I said, what is my motive to sit here?
Well, I'll say to them, why do you think I'm sitting here?
I know you're writing a hit piece about me.
Why do you think it is I'm sitting here and answering these questions?
Why does Robert Kennedy Jr. leave being, he's a Kennedy?
This guy is born into the closest thing to a royal family this nation has.
On top of that, you know, he had, you know, he's followed by cameras.
So he has some issues in his childhood, but he becomes arguably one of the greatest environmentalists alive, certainly as an attorney, you know, brought visibility to issues that have changed our earth as we know it.
He's celebrated by the Democratic Party, liberals for having achieved that.
They forget about his troubled childhood.
He's offered the Senate seat in New York.
He doesn't want to get into politics.
He hands it to Hillary Clinton, question whatever judgment that has.
But then all of a sudden, in the middle of all of that, you know what I really want to do?
I want to go and create a fraud around the safest product known to man and everyone knows it's safe and make people afraid of it so that I get ridiculed by every newspaper there is.
I get tarted feathered.
My entire environmental career gets goes up and burned so that when I finally do decide to get in politics, I'm hated by the party that my family basically built because why?
Right.
Why?
Why would anyone other than he has gone batshit crazy?
But that was the problem is that then you watch on a podcast.
You have to say, that sounds like a sensible, I mean, I'm expecting a lunatic who just trashed the greatest life experience you could ever have for no reason.
I mean, I say these journalists, is it possible that he actually saw something so devastating and so horrifying, he was willing to risk his entire career to tell that story?
That's Occam's razor.
That's the simplest version.
If you got a better, but they can't, they're like, well, I haven't really thought about it.
How are you writing and not thinking about it?
And then I take it a step further with, you're no longer in a place where you can even say, we don't have science.
Everyone's, I mean, in the Atlantic interview, this reporter's like, I saw the movie.
It's very compelling.
I don't really know what to say about it.
It's like, well, I'll tell you what you now know is you can't say we don't have science.
Science has been done from your side and it's not adding up well.
So now it's my science against what you're saying is science and we're in a problem.
But ultimately, what I say to all of them is here's what I don't understand that you're doing.
The number one conversation is around have there been placebo-based trials or not?
It's really simple.
I have staked my entire career saying I have sued the government of the United States.
I have spent millions through a nonprofit bringing this to light.
Robert Kennedy Jr. said the same thing.
And yet every time we make that statement in your articles, you will write the experts say this is not true.
Paul Offet says this is not true.
They've done placebo-based trials.
I'm like, I don't understand how that's journalism because certainly the first time we said it 10 years ago, okay, that in your first article, for after 10 years to keep saying the experts say and not saying to those experts, hand it to me, hand it to me.
We're the New York Times.
We're the Atlantic.
Hand me 16 vaccines, hand me 16 placebo-based trials at the establishment or the original versions of those vaccines, and we will put it on the front page of New York Times.
And Bobby Kennedy's done.
Del Batri's done.
This is over.
They were lying to you.
But how are you allowing yourself to write the experts say when you now have no evidence?
Do we live in a time?
Because this means that Woodward and Bernstein would have called Richard Nixon personally, said, we're being told that you tapped some phones over at the Watergate Hotel.
Did you do it?
No, I did not.
I would never do something like that.
Well, the experts said they didn't do it.
Moving on.
And that is where journalism is at.
Call the guy that's being accused.
Ask him if it's true.
If he says, no, it's not true, you stick with that expert opinion and the rest of it is considered conspiracy.
Yes, it is institution after institution that are now inhabited by people who, one, are actually more like actors than they are like people attempting to do the job that is the one they've ostensibly been hired for.
But worse, they don't know it.
I mean, so that, okay, so this is what we're going to, do they not know?
Does Paul Offit not know that he's moving around bad science?
Do these journalists not know that journalism requires you to have a follow-up F-N question?
Where's the science?
Where's the data?
Hand it to me.
Well, I would say Paul Offit is a tough call.
I don't know how Paul Offit runs.
I've seen him say some things that make me worry about his moral commitments.
But it's possible.
I mean, the real question is, did he vaccinate his kids?
Or would he still?
And I can't answer that question.
I think there are clearly people in this milieu who know and wouldn't.
But I do think in all of these realms, you have something in which you are supposed to have a higher goal and then you've been hired to do something.
It's like, okay, good.
I want to pursue the truth.
And somebody's actually hired me to do so on stories that they're going to send me.
Right.
If that's the structure, it can work because there's enough alignment between your objectives and the person you hired you.
But the degree to which people can be trained to do something else.
And I think mostly what they are doing is they are detecting their own well-being.
They're like looking at their well-being as if it was a stock price.
And anytime, if I make this move, my stock price is going to plummet.
The answer is, well, then I'm going to make the inverse move.
And the point is that overrides your commitment to the scientific method.
It overrides your commitment to truth.
And the really weird part is, and I wonder, I say this as a, I don't call myself an atheist because I'm angry at the way atheists have handled the question of religion and dealt with religious people.
I think it's disgusting.
But a de facto atheist, that's where I am.
I wonder if part of the problem is that people who do not have a religious orientation can make their peace with things that somebody who actually believes cannot.
Yeah.
And, you know, how do you make the decision to not publish a study that reveals at least strong evidence of severe harm to children that would potentially derail the maiming force?
How do you not publish that if you think that the universe cares about whether you do the right thing?
I know.
I'll tell you.
Okay.
Because I think it's, I've seen the slippery slope.
I've watched it many times.
But first of all, what Zervo says is it won't make a difference.
If I publish it, the system is so corrupt.
He says this.
It's so corrupt.
I'll get destroyed.
I'll never be remembered.
None of this will matter.
No one's going to change anything.
The government would have to get involved.
They won't.
These institutions are never going to listen to it.
So to be just a futile, you know, self, I'm going to, you know, emulation where I just, you know, destroy myself for no reason.
I think he tells himself that.
Now, whether that's true or not, that's the story he tells himself.
And then this has been going on for years.
When I was making vaxed, I would, you know, because I was coming from the doctor's television show, I knew doctors and scientists all around the world.
So I went to people that I'd done shows with.
I'd made them famous for some surgery or something and say, hey, have you ever looked at the vaccine issue?
I'm curious.
And so many times they say, is this off the record?
Yeah, I mean, if it has to be.
All right, Del.
I mean, I'm talking to people like heads of universe, like medical systems.
I know for, I've watched it with my own eyes.
Vaccines are causing autism.
I will never say that on a camera ever.
I will never, you don't ever report it.
I trust you, but you're, you're onto something, Del.
I hope you can get to the bottom of it, but I will never say it because if I do, I have a great research project going right now that is on the verge of hearing a cancer or I got diabetes in my sites.
And if I get into this vaccine issue, I will lose all my funding and I will not be able to save millions of people.
I believe I'm on the verge of saving millions of people.
And by making that statement, that'll be taken away from me and those people will die.
And so I'm saving those people.
So for Zervos, I'm saving these people at the cost of these.
And it really doesn't matter because no one's going to do anything about this anyway.
Right.
Okay.
So that's how they justify it.
That is how they justify it.
It still doesn't tell me whether or not these are people who believe in a higher power.
Oh, I, um, yeah.
But I do think that that's how it works in the mind.
As I've talked about with my audience before, utilitarianism is a wicked problem in the following sense.
On average, we should want a utilitarian calculus to prove out.
In other words, in general, if something improves the well-being of a larger number of people, it's usually good.
It's not always good.
Slavery can be argued to, you know, be the greatest good for the greatest number.
You know, we enslave a tiny number of people and everybody else profits from it.
And the point is, nope, you don't get to do that no matter what.
So the point is we have a basic attraction to utilitarian calculus, and we don't understand the pitfalls of it, that it can justify literally anything, including slavery, including genocide.
So once you have this kind of rule of thumb attraction to utilitarianism, you also know what lie you have to tell yourself in order to justify your inaction, which is what you're telling me.
Yeah.
If I think I'm on the verge of a big breakthrough and it's going to save a ton of people, and if I do this other thing, I will save no people and it won't have the positive effect, then the answer is, well, then this is the morally correct thing to do.
This is actually my biggest concern about the so-called rationalists is that they have an explicit commitment to this kind of calculus.
And I do think it is in conflict with a, well, the beauty of the belief in a higher power is it's not gameable.
Right.
If you know that you're telling yourself a lie because you fear what happens if you tell yourself the truth, you can get away with that between you and you, but you can't get away with that if somebody's listening into your thoughts and saying, you know better.
You're not on the verge of saving millions of people.
And you know what?
If you did take this risk, it would make a difference.
Right.
So I think we're really, we've discovered a flaw in the way civilization runs at the moment, which is that science displaced faith.
Maybe that needed to happen, but we didn't replace it with anything that could do the heavy lifting that faith did.
Yeah.
And it didn't remain true to its own principles of what science was supposed to be.
So it just became another religion.
Yes.
You know, it's just, it just happens.
All that science and medicine is to me now is the most powerful religion in the world.
That's all that it really is.
It's become a faith-based religion.
It demands more faith than almost any other religion.
And it lacks a God.
The God in this religion is human beings that are completely and totally flawed.
And we've imbued it with the same ideas of God, but these people are flawed individuals that make millions and hundreds of millions of dollars.
And so this thing is so far off track.
And to the point, I think that a lot of the people I've worked with from Bobby Kennedy and many, we do feel, you know, a spiritual calling.
I think God plays a big role in this movement, if you will, in the medical freedom movement, Maha movement, whatever you want to call it.
Newest AI vs Medical Freedom00:17:03
You are one of the anomalies as calling.
We've had some great conversations floating in Lake Travis that I've enjoyed.
And I think you have a very unique perspective on when you're saying atheists.
I don't think it rings for how most people think that word means.
And we could get into a conversation about what happens when you believe you are actually working for God, which is what I do.
I mean, it changes.
It's amazing when you really think I'm just a vessel and God needs me to be as clear and open, keep saying yes.
I'll never be a Zervos.
Like I am the opposite.
And I find great benefit to the fact that I take huge risks and I believe God's got my back.
When you walk with that, it imbues maybe an unrealistic set of abilities, but it gives you a confidence, I think, that pays dividends in many, many ways.
But that's a different conversation because what I think is important and I really want to pick your brain on is we can sit here and analyze what's making journalists tick that they're not doing their job.
we can sit here and come to you know conclusions on how scientists aren't doing their job but my biggest concern is the human beings of this planet at this moment i don't where we we we're buying microphones on podcasts in your pocket we want to get through to people and i keep bashing scientists and showing studies that refute them But it's like you're,
I feel like I'm talking to an audience that is half asleep, like it's just gotten so used to dramatic statements and outrageous news.
And the new, the television's been turned up to, you know, the spinal tap 11.
It's just everything's been an 11 for so long that when something comes through that really is important and it's really dangerous, it's just taken, you know, with a spoon of sugar, just like every other loud piece of information that's coming out.
Like I think there's a reason of all the topics.
You've challenged a lot of things in science.
This one's bigger than that.
This is the lives of your children.
This is the future of our species at the very least.
I mean, just our natural desire to want to put COVID behind us as though we've, we've learned.
So we haven't learned what happened there.
We don't know what happened and we don't know if it's over.
We don't know.
There's so much we don't know, but we just, it's time to change.
I've got to change the channel like this ADD.
I just want more.
Let me get some other Kardashian level drama.
But, and I feel like in some ways I'm repeating the same story over and over again.
But this, I don't know any other issue that's like this.
There's, there's some big issues in the world.
There's wars, potential wars going on.
We've got Central Reserve banking systems.
But this, I still see on the television, they're like, vaccinations are down.
It's down to, you know, lower 90% or something, or maybe upper 80% of people are still vaccinating.
And I think when I got into this, I just wanted freedom.
I've been saying I'm just fighting for freedom.
But the truth is, is the freedom's not really going to last that we're achieving if 90% of the people still think this is a great product and aren't paying attention.
Well, okay.
I think COVID did something unique and we're losing it.
I feel the same thing.
Everybody's desire to move on from COVID has got them not paying attention to the fact that COVID wasn't really COVID.
It was a larger story that marches on and has you in its sights still.
It's coming back.
MRNA shots, to be sure.
But the key thing for me is I understand that we can have impassioned arguments about the red team and the blue team.
And then you go to the polls, something happens, and you can barely detect the impact of whatever shift occurred in your life.
You know, maybe there's a big initiative that changes the crappy way you get your crappy health insurance, but it's hard to detect the impact of your right or wrong belief.
In the case of COVID and especially the mRNA shots, people had very strong beliefs about people like you and me.
Those guys are nuts.
All right.
They took the shots and large numbers of them now have these sudden, mysterious pathologies, aggressive cancers.
There's a lot of death and injury.
And it was a moment at which, hey, your wrong belief caused you a health problem.
And if it didn't, it caused it to somebody you know.
So the point is, whoa, that's a lot of consequence for a wrong belief.
And A, the rational response is the right thing to do would have been to say, actually, precaution involves me not accepting that novel technology.
Maybe it works.
Maybe it isn't harmful, but it sure can't be safe because it hasn't been around long enough to know what it does to a person over the course of a decade.
So it was an opportunity to make that point.
The thing about the rest of the vaccine schedule is I know that we have a huge number of injured people, and I have reasonable confidence in what happened to many of them.
If that connection is right, the thing that really motivates me is all of the people who haven't been harmed yet.
You may not be able to do anything for the vast number of people who've been maimed, but you can certainly stop creating new maimed children.
And I do not understand the mind that lies to itself in that context.
What I want to know is me and whoever else, can we agree that if those shots were doing what I think they're doing to kids, that it is the highest priority that we save those kids who have yet to be harmed from them.
And instead, we get this kind of mushy, dissembling, well, these experts say this.
I just want agreement.
If I'm right, this should end.
And then maybe I'm not right.
But if I'm right, let's agree this should end because no decent person could possibly disagree with that, I think.
Yeah.
Well, and those numbers, and usually, I mean, on my show, I'm very positive, being really honest with you right now that, you know, we've sat, we've put together events, you know, defeat the mandates and, you know, really put a lot on the line to try and move as many people.
And we have.
I don't mean to be negative, but, you know, we're watching changes happening.
We're watching a government, I think, being more dramatically different.
Like when you're saying when you vote red or blue, or you have that argument, the country doesn't change that much.
It doesn't seem like we've been told this is a giant, you know, aircraft carrier that takes forever to turn.
And within the four years or eight years, you really don't get much done.
I would say there's a huge turn happening in several fronts that I care about.
How long will it last?
Will we see it?
Well, hold on.
I want to clarify one thing that I must not have made plain enough.
Okay.
I'm not saying that things don't change substantially based on who you voted for.
I'm saying that the average person sitting in their living room can't feel it.
Yeah.
Right.
Something shifts.
And, you know, unfortunately for, you know, my entire adult life, it was really a choice between, you know, which crime family was up and which crime family was down.
The point is, it doesn't feel that different.
Who are you being taken advantage of?
On this issue, you know, 50%, what is it they're saying at the CDC?
76% of Americans now have a chronic disease.
That's going to be hard to change.
Like that's going to, you know, they're sick and they're going to mostly go to doctors who are the same people that are in the same system that are making them sick.
And so odds are you're right.
And I actually am working on a new company for exactly that.
Think we've got to build a new healthcare system that actually has care in mind and is about making you healthy, is not pumping you for drugs, but actually trying to get you off of drugs if you're on them.
Figure out better alternative, holistic ways to live your life.
That you know.
Nutrition huge, I think.
The, the pyramids great, but to the point Brett, that's going to get really difficult here in the very near future.
And where i'm now trying to think I mean i'm always in the strategy.
We had a great strategy discussion back in Bath when you were arguing and you said to me something that I have reiterated to myself many times.
You said, I don't think you have taken stock of how much the world has changed around you.
You've been in this fight so long.
You're fighting the same way.
You said to me, look who's in the room today in this dinner.
You got dr Robert Malone, who invented the MRNA technology one of them.
You got Geir Vandenbosch.
You got me.
We're here we, you.
We weren't here last year, you were all alone.
I get it, but you need to reassess your strategy based on how the game has just changed.
I think we're in that moment, which is, we do have people shifting and I do when the numbers that are amazing are, I think, amongst pregnant women, 60 percent in America.
When polled at least whatever poll this was said, they are not going to stick to the CDC schedule.
So that's a huge.
That's outside the 90, 80 percent that could have a huge tidal effect to how this whole nation sits.
But right behind that is going to be a world that the media run by Pharma is going to take advantage of, which is measles is coming back.
Oh my god, the measles outbreak.
Oh my god the chickenpox outbreak.
Oh my god the end.
And I think we're.
We do a disservice when people that aren't vaccinated say, my kids never get sick.
That's not true.
That's not true.
Yeah um, they're not sick long.
I mean I, my kids aren't, are unvaccinated.
They get sick for about eight hours one day.
My son 17, he's worn himself down.
I think he was sick for two days.
It looked really bad.
He's fine now, but our kids need to get sick.
We've got to change.
I mean, the hardest part of this Brett is one thing to say, these things are dangerous and a lot of people are getting that.
Covet certainly helped make that clear.
But in a world of ai and a world of moving forward, the technology and advancement advancement, advancement.
Is that society actually capable of coming to the conclusion that actually going backwards in this one space is our way forward?
Um, that's very well said.
I would point out two things.
One, I think there's a battle that has to happen where the public has to come to understand nonspecific negative effects of vaccines, because part of the problem is you.
You hear measles vaccine and you think about measles and, as you have pointed out, maybe this is effective at preventing measles, but that's not what you, as someone deciding whether or not to give this to your kid, wants to know.
Right, what you want to know is, is this net health beneficial for my kid, which is a much tougher question?
Yes um, because there are lots of things.
We don't know why they're connected to vaccines, but that seem to be lots of things that we just didn't anticipate.
And, you know, Christine Stable Ben has done a great job of tracking these nonspecific effects.
And yeah anyway, the public needs, um an upgrade.
Uh, in that regard, i'm trying to remember there was another point that I needed to put on the table here, and I can't remember what it was.
What was?
Well, it was about this new world of having to accept that we're going back is the way to go forward.
Got it here's, here's the, the other little upgrade that, uh has to happen in order for that to make sense.
You've got a public that is used to the latest phone has all the stuff your last one did, plus a bunch of new stuff.
And so there's this sort of addiction to, well, I want more features because, I mean, especially in the context of a phone, what exactly am I giving up?
Right.
That is not how things work when what you're doing is you are intervening in a complex system that is delicately balanced by evolution in a way that no human being understands.
I'm tempted to say completely understands, but the fact is we're at the very beginning of understanding how a human functions and our ability to intervene in a way that is net positive is minimal.
So I think the addiction to your the newest phone has a carryover that it doesn't deserve in the area of medicine, right?
Well, you know, if I'm going to take, you know, the measles shot, I want the newest one.
No, you don't.
When you're talking about taking a drug or a vaccine, you want the one that is best understood, that the people who took it first have been around the longest.
So we have some idea what its net impact is, or at least have that potential.
And so, you know, you're going right back to what you described about your natal home, right?
You were eating traditional stuff that used to be called food.
Now we've got stuff that we call food that really shouldn't qualify, right?
It's a formula that's being tried on us.
So getting people to separate their more or less rational attraction to the newest AI engine, the latest phone, the newest car, to separate that from their instinct about medicine and food, that's the key, right?
You are an ancient organism built for an environment you don't live in.
You should want to deviate from your ancestral environment as little as possible because you put a person, especially developmentally, you put them in an environment that looks like the ancestral environment from the beginning, and then you allow them to go through development in that environment, and then you make the adult environment match that.
That's going to be a healthy person.
All of this ill health comes from a mismatch between the critter and the environment.
And that mismatch is coming from us.
The call is coming from inside the house.
It's a technological pathology.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's going to be tough, though.
I mean, and I think there's another feature to this I'm worried about.
You know, I mean, I've said I want my kids to have the measles that blows people's minds.
Like I want them to catch chickenpox.
In fact, I am concerned, Brett, that my unvaccinated kids aren't the same thing as the original baby boomers that were not vaccinated for any of these diseases and did just fine because they were being primed by these illnesses.
There are studies that show reduced heart disease if you had measles as a child.
Yeah, reduced cancers.
If ovarian cancer, I think is if a woman had mumps and measles when she was a kid, not from vaccinated, doesn't do it.
But there's obviously a priming of the immune system.
I'm concerned that kids now that are unvaccinated, they're not necessarily, we're not going back to square one.
I think about this, you know, what really sort of triggered me on this was I would always say when I started this whole thing on vaccines, you know, the greatest invention of the 20th century isn't vaccines.
It's penicillin.
Penicillins save far more lives and all of this.
But then as I realized the more reporting I do on, you know, antibiotics and the fact that most manufacturers are giving up on making antibiotics because they can't keep up with the evolution of bacteria and resistance and they're causing scarier and scarier bacteria in hospitals and things.
Antibiotic Resistance Crisis00:13:17
And then I thought, you know, we're still the window we're looking at is Pasteur is a genius.
But if we get to a point inside of 100 years where we just give up on antibiotics, but we're not going when we do that, we're not going back to prior to Pasteur.
We now live in a world where we have created superbugs that are like unstoppable, eating flesh, eating, growing on walls, no matter how much aniseptic you pour on a hospital.
They're just teeming with these things.
And will the same story be told of Pasteur if all he did was give us a tiny little moment of success, but left us with the most dangerous environment that we would have never had had we not introduced antibiotics to the environment.
So these are, I mean, these are the questions that I ponder now.
And it's the same thing.
We can't just go back to not vaccinating.
Our infants aren't protected from measles or chickenpox.
They're in danger.
So the vaccine programs wiped out infant immunity.
So now we got to, you see Bobby doing people saying, why is he not, you know, getting rid of chickenpox?
It's a ridiculous vaccine or even measles.
Most of us know it's a Brady Bunch episode because I was in those conversations, been in with scientists.
Even Andy Wakefield, when we were making vaxed, who's the big bad guy in this, he's like, we can't just end the measles vaccine program.
It's like, he's like, babies will die.
I mean, we have messed ourselves up.
So there's the fact that my kids aren't being primed the way they're supposed to.
And then something I'm really thinking about now is doctors aren't trained for any of these illnesses.
To them, measles looks terrifying.
And I look at these two deaths that happened in Texas that obviously the media wants to scream about.
It's almost like they're being murdered by medicine.
And I'm not saying on purpose, but if you walk into a hospital and they go, oh, you're not vaccinated?
Well, you're going to die.
I don't want my doctor's assumption that I'm going to die of what I've just walked into the hospital with, but they've been trained to think like that.
Whereas 40 years ago, I walk in the hospital, like, oh, you just have the measles.
Let's get you some vitamin A. We'll get you out of here.
You'll be fine.
Go lay up, play some, you know, board games.
Everything's going to be fine.
We're living in a totally different world.
All of this is going to be so much more dangerous to experience.
Yes.
There are a number of points here.
One of them I think you're going to appreciate.
Doctors aren't real doctors, which means that even the fact that something is going to re-emerge is a special problem because when doctors were scientists, they would have trained themselves anew.
Whereas if they're handed, you know, anti-vaxxers are the problem, they're going to die, all of this stuff, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Yes.
But on the point regarding bacterial resistance, there's a hidden story here.
And I wish people understood it because actually it tells us a lot about complex systems and medicine and governance.
It's a really kind of an interesting thing to understand.
So we are screwing up by overusing every antibiotic at our disposal, creating a gain of function experiment in which we are training these bacteria to fungi to overcome our best weapons.
And the point is, it's getting ever harder to find substances that actually will deal with these new resistant bugs.
However, we have the solution to that at our disposal anytime we choose to avail ourselves of it.
It involves the fact that there are trade-offs in these bugs.
And I'm using bugs loosely.
I'm obviously talking about microbes.
The trade-offs mean that there is a cost to being resistant.
The bugs that have resistance thrive because they are so regularly encountering the antibiotics in question, right?
So they are being reinforced in their resistance because the cost of lacking that resistance is greater than the cost of having it.
That ceases to be the case as soon as we stop applying this stuff, right?
What happens is the cost of being resistant now out-competes the cost of not being resistant because there's no benefit to it.
So whatever extra investment it takes to be resistant is unremunerated.
So all you got to do to fix an antibiotic is withdraw it completely for a long enough period of time for evolution to return these things to their baseline state.
But you cannot do that in a libertarian environment.
This requires coordination.
We have to agree that actually the loss of that antibiotic is sufficiently bad for humanity that we have to take it away for a period of time to restore it and nobody gets to break the rule, right?
You have to be able to do it in a coordinated fashion or it won't work.
So I don't know that we have the wherewithal to do that.
It sounds tyrannical, I'm sure.
But we all need those antibiotics.
We are creating the very problem that requires them.
And we are leaving ourselves no off-ramp.
So we need to wrap our minds around the fact that even though, and I'm, you know, I know how this will sound to people, if you take an antibiotic that is developing, the resistance is being developed towards, and you withdraw it, some people will die.
Some people who might have been saved by that antibiotic.
Now, maybe there's a contingency plan.
Maybe we can, you know, let's take a ship and turn it into a floating hospital where we can carefully deploy an antibiotic in a way that resistance can't escape back into the world.
I don't know if there's a plan like that that would be viable, but we have to be able to coordinate our use because it is the libertarian free-for-all that has produced the resistance that we now can't keep up with.
It's a very, I mean, it's a very good point.
And it's one of the things, you know, in this movement, I've been a part of what I would call the medical freedom movement for almost 10 years.
The big baddie is any concept of a greater good, right?
Is we're going to make a decision for the greater body of humanity because everyone that's been injured by a vaccine, that was the argument that was used.
You are an accepted casualty to achieve herd immunity.
Unfortunately, science didn't know how big that casualty is.
And I think it is far higher than can be, you know, justified in actual math.
But what you're talking about, and I've said it is, I'm sorry, every decision is a greater good decision of some kind, whether we're vaccinating or not vaccinating, whether we're deciding because there are casualties to every single choice that we make.
Yes.
And someone has got to do the math on what is the greater casualty.
And I think at the moment, the way we are using antibiotics, the way we are using vaccines, and the way that we are approving pharmaceutical products, especially vaccines, our species is not long for this earth.
And I don't mean naturally.
I mean specifically, if we keep, and this is what I say to every journalist, I don't care what you actually think of the COVID vaccine, whether you are blind somehow to the amount of carnage it's caused, but let's say it was successful.
I assure you that if we continue to live in a world where the pharmaceutical industry is allowed to rush a brand new technology that messes with your DNA, your mRNA, whatever you want to call it, rush it onto the market within a year,
skip out, and then get an emergency use authorization by the government to skip out of all long-term safety trials and then mandate that everyone in order to get on a bus or on a plane or go to a job or go to school have to take this totally experimental product.
Somehow we got lucky that COVID, at least so far, it may have a longer-term burn, did not destroy our species.
But if we continue with that, allowing pharma to rush products onto the market, rush brand new technologies, get it mandated by every government in the world and everyone in a stronger and stronger authoritarian system around the world, globalist system, is forced to take this product.
Nature has never and will never deliver a virus or a bacteria that can wipe this species out.
But rushing science mandated on all humanity, that is perfectly capable of doing that and will eventually.
Well, let's put it this way.
My top priority in this regard is the gain of function has to stop.
Yeah.
Right.
Because what effectively we have are weapons scientists who have gotten bored with the 16 or whatever weaponizable pathogens that nature handed them.
And they're now shopping in all of the things that make creatures that aren't exactly human sick and looking for ones that they can teach to infect people for their own demonic purposes.
Yeah.
So that has to stop because we actually have pretty good resistance to the things that are circulating.
The story has been evolving with them for a very long period of time.
We have.
And what happened to the indigenous people of the new world when the Spaniards arrived looms too large for us because the point is this has already happened, right?
It got everywhere and everything gets everywhere, which has rendered these things much more controllable because selection has already acted to make us capable of dealing with them.
That's not true if Anthony Fauci and his insane friends are shopping the caves of the Yunnan province for bat viruses that they can train, right?
Now, suddenly we're dealing with a whole bunch of new pathogens that we don't have the experience to deal with.
And so anyway, I don't need to convince you of that, but we are technologically putting the species in danger in short order.
We're doing it physiologically.
We're also doing it technologically.
I mean, the experiment that we are running on ourselves with AI is not psychologically safe, among other risks.
It is my new vaccine focus.
That thing scares me.
I may have found something that could potentially be more dangerous than a, you know, horror safety show, you know, around vaccines, this thing.
It's very frightening.
Even if, you know, I am alert to the possibility of a, you know, misalignment where the AI goes after us, but you don't need to get anywhere near those scenarios to see how this can catastrophically disrupt humans and is already beginning to do so.
So, well, anyway, I'm interested to hear that you're of this mind and on a project to potentially, I hope, refocus medicine around, I would argue, the precautionary principle and Chesterton's fence, that we need to understand that all of the technological stuff we've done has been born of an understanding of the complicated.
We are complex.
Complicated and complex sound like synonyms.
They're not.
Complex things are fundamentally unpredictable.
And so you intervene at your peril, right?
And our love of intervention and the few cases in which we've made interventions that, you know, frankly, all of the interventions that we've made that have worked spectacularly well work because they work in concert with things about the body we don't understand.
Like, for example, surgery.
Well, surgery works because you can slice open the human body.
You can take something out or modify something.
And then the body has magical properties to put itself back together that were there having nothing to do with medicine, right?
You try that with your car.
You know, take a chainsaw and, you know, cut into your car and see how well it heals.
Watching Bobby Attack00:16:00
Right.
Right.
Your car is complicated.
You are complex.
And we need to, as much as possible, let the body take care of itself and stop imagining that we're gods and that we intervene in all of these magical ways that are all good and not bad.
And anyway, it's an important transition and I wish you luck with it.
Thank you.
Before we close out here, I did want to get your sense of where we are in the larger context.
You as Bobby's campaign manager saw Director Amerils Kennedy was campaign manager.
I ran the media perspective social media, getting him, you know, handling the story.
Right.
Sorry about the error.
It's okay.
But I'm wondering, you've seen the system now up close in a way that few of us have.
And you're obviously watching what's taking place, not just at the level of human health, but at the level of this administration, which you and I both had a hand in making happen.
Where do you think we are?
Where do you think we're headed?
Are you optimistic?
Are you concerned?
Both?
I like to say to journalists, because they ask me that all the time.
It's like, I'm giddy.
I'm singing in the car.
You know, I feel really good about what I see happening.
I first sat Bobby down.
I took out a, I don't know if it was a presidential suite, but the Hyatt in Washington, D.C., I took out a room that had a big, long conference table in it.
I knew Aaron Siri, who I worked very closely with, was going to be in D.C. and they were going to be making some rounds.
So I knew Bobby was going to be in D.C.
This, I think it was like 2018, 19.
And I'll never forget I invited him up for a meeting and I was going to get us dinner.
I got this nice room, but he shows up with his own box, mealies ravenous and starving and sitting there in like, you know, the jean shirt.
Great.
I mean, I just love Bobby in so many ways.
He's such a natural guy in such an unnatural environment where you think of Washington, D.C.
But in that moment, you know, he's like, all right, guys, why my hair?
And I pitched to him then that I thought he should run for president.
I said, I think that we are making a lot of headway in this conversation now, but that the censorship's moving in.
Remember, this is pre-Joe Biden.
There's only been at that moment one debate with all 20 people on stage.
And I was like, Bobby, you can jump in there and you're going to survive the debates, at least for this first several, because your name recognition alone will give you above the 2% that you need.
You're coming in an advantage.
And I was like, you're going to get a real advantage because I think the media is going to make a tragic mistake and attack you on vaccines and give you far more airtime than most of the people on that stage on that one issue.
And I'll be in the background working with you and Aaron and we'll run your social media and show everybody the signs.
That was my hairbrain idea.
He thought about it for a few weeks and then just said, I'm just not sure this is the right time.
Of course, COVID hit right at the end of that whole election cycle.
And I'm still curious what that would have looked like if Bobby, and remember, in that situation, Bobby would have been on liberal news and they would have watched him speak.
But anyway, I don't go back in time and I'm not the type of person that really wastes a lot of time there.
I did get the call when he did decide to run and ended up being his director of communications.
And it was an incredible ride, incredible journey.
I got to be in the Oval Office when he was sworn as HHS secretary, which, you know, I did think in that moment, God is good.
This is bigger and better than anything any of us dreamed.
We have toiled and slaved to get this guy wherever he was going.
But I really asked myself as I was leaving that day, did I ever picture him as president?
Like in the whole new age, did I have, I never put like, you know, a vision board on my wall and Bobby standing, you know, sitting behind the, you know, the desk or anything.
And so the whole flight home, I was just, what, what's, what were we doing?
And I want to say that, you know, Amaryllis Kennedy, Charles Eisenstein, me, and, you know, Stephanie Spear around Bobby.
And Bobby is a very spiritual person, but we all, when I think about it, I don't know that we were just signed off on he's going to be president.
It was a long shot, no matter what.
But none of us felt like it was just some futile.
It wasn't a lark.
It wasn't a lark.
There was something that was happening and we knew it was going to pay off.
Somehow, this is going to, we feel it.
We're here for a reason.
It's too big.
There's too many doors opening in really miraculous places for this not to add up to something.
So I do believe in God and I do believe my, you know, the coincidences are too big and too brilliant.
All that said, getting close to DC is the most, it's a horror show.
I don't like it.
Bobby asked me if I was interested in coming in and being in media inside of DC.
And there's no part of me that certainly that's not my calling at the moment.
I've watched, I watched the criticisms.
I was frustrated by the criticisms against him by people on our own side.
Why has he stopped talking about vaccines?
He's given up on us.
I was like, we let the guy get into the job, right?
The food issue.
And I'm happy to admit this, that the press is like, he really moved to food as soon as Maha and just to get more people, right?
I was like, yeah.
And it was a much more easier, it was an easier conversation to have on the dangers of food than the dangers of vaccines.
So did he use that to get more people behind him?
It's like, yeah.
I mean, yes.
It's not like he made it up, though.
He's been fighting for clean food his whole life.
It wasn't like he made it up to hoodwink people.
It's just like, hey, there's this other part of something that I think we all more obviously care about.
So coming out of the gate immediately started fixing the food supply.
I mean, just to, you know, look at that last year in review.
I mean, I was being asked as the, you know, as we were trying to see if he would get confirmed, you know, Donald Trump got in and I cheered and it was amazing, but then I realized, oh, wait a minute, this doesn't mean anything.
Bobby's not confirmed yet.
And that became its own, you know, major, heavy lift and scary and very, very close.
I don't think people realize how close that was to not happening.
But even before the election, red dye number four was being taken down by HHS by the same criminals that had had that job for decades and not done it.
And so when people were saying to me, what effect do you think Robert Kennedy Jr. can have?
I was like, he's already having it.
He's already brought attention to issues that no one in this country were ever paying attention to.
Red dye is coming out.
It's not because Bobby Cummings, Kennedy's coming and all those people don't want to go in history as being the last fools that poisoned America.
They want to say, no, I started that before Bobby ever got there.
And I would say in those interviews at that moment, you know, if I went on the street right now and said, who's to every stop a thousand people, who's the current HHS secretary?
Would they tell me Javier Becerra?
They're like, no.
I was like, how many?
Like, like, I don't think one in a thousand, every reporter said, I don't even think one in a thousand could do it.
I was like, if I go out there and say who's about to beat the HHS secretary of the United States of America, like, yeah, maybe one in 10.
I was like, that is the change.
The change is we're engaged now as a voting public.
And no matter what you think of Donald Trump, the one great thing about him is he woke America up.
You know, whether you hate him, you vote against him.
If you love him, you're voting for him.
But both sides are realizing we're in a dangerous situation and I got to get more involved.
So for all of those reasons, we're a greater nation right now than I think we've been in most of my lifetime.
And to watch what Bobby's doing, starting out with food, removing chemicals from food that every liberal has wanted, every crunchy granola mom, I'm shocked that they're still calling themselves Democrats or are somehow mustering up.
I think he's a crazy person.
We've been talking about the food supply.
He's fixing the food supply.
Marty McCary, I think, has been brilliant speaking out.
We're going to have placebo trials.
No more vaccines without placebo trials.
Huge change.
We're no longer going to give flu shots that can't prove to stop the virus that's circulating.
That seems like a no-brainer, but it took a lot of brain to make that happen.
I think seeing Donald Trump sort of really pressing upon Bobby to look at the pure nations and say, you know, can we study their vaccine programs?
And this shift two weeks ago to the Denmark schedule plus chicken pox, I think will save millions of lives.
I'm not, it's not over.
There's still, you know, we've gone from 17 vaccines to 11, I think it is, or diseases.
There's 54 vaccines.
It's turning into 23, 54 shots to 23 shots at the moment, but they're still going to mandate those other ones.
So for my work, I say I'll be done.
When I got into this with VAXT, I'll be finished when vaccines aren't mandated and when liability is back on the manufacturer.
We have a free market system.
When we get back to what the United States of America is supposed to be, you got to prove the damn thing safe.
And if it isn't safe, then there's other products you're going to compete with.
We're going to state it publicly.
We're not going to make people take it so that you don't have to fix it.
We're not going to protect your liability.
I think if we can just get back to that natural world, most of these problems will start.
I think science will return.
I think the scientific method hopefully will get involved there.
And we're moving in that direction.
So I'm ecstatic with what I see.
I think that there's still vaccines.
I think the Gardasil vaccine is one of the worst things ever made.
Horrifying.
It was sad to see it stay on the schedule, which says to me, I know Bobby.
I know he works by consensus inside of people he trusts.
So somewhere in Oz, Dr. McCary and Jay Bhattacharya, there must be a love for that vaccine.
I don't know why.
It is so useless, so pointless, has achieved nothing except damage.
But I think there's also the assumption that the ASIP meetings that are going on, and Robert Malone was, I loved watching him run that last meeting.
I love him in that position.
I'm not sure how long he'll stay there, but I think aluminum is going to come under the spotlight.
That Paul Offit's screaming bloody murder over that.
So just watch Paul Offit if you want to see how much success you're having.
Just give it around.
Whatever he's screaming about, monitor if his eyes are public.
Exactly.
Aluminum's horrific thing that we're doing.
It is going to be devastating.
Paul Offit's right.
It'll be very devastating, the vaccine program, if you come to the obvious conclusion that this known neurotoxin shouldn't be injected into children as that it is.
Especially if liability were vaccinated.
Especially.
So my concern is the midterms.
I think that Bobby will be the first.
If the Republicans, and I'm not, I consider myself politically marooned.
I obviously supported Bobby.
I stand behind Trump because he's supporting Bobby.
And it's a huge part of what we're doing here.
But I think Bobby is the most effective part of this administration right now.
Oh, I think that's clear.
And I think that if we, if the Republicans lost control of the Senate and the House, if that actually took place, I think Bobby would be impeached almost immediately.
I think that, and so that concerns me.
That's frightening.
I will say I'm watching Bobby.
And as you know, I have defended him against attacks from our side, which, you know, attacks that like you, I have some sympathy with, right?
There are some things that should be done that aren't being done.
But I also, in watching Bobby, it is clear that he is doing something that I don't think most of us would be capable of stomaching.
What must it be like to have to negotiate in an environment where you know that how well you do adjusts how many children will be maimed, but you can't get the number to zero because you'll be out on your ear.
Right.
That's a rough position for a good man to be in, to have to negotiate over this.
It's a Schindler-like position.
It's unthinkable.
And anyway, more power to Bobby for being able to do it.
It needs to be done.
And to the thing you've alluded to, I think the one thing in being as close to him from the years that I worked with him on the campaign, his spiritual life, his guiding principles to life are unmatched in the political arena.
And I want to make sure I'm not saying religious.
I'm saying spiritual.
He's guided by something much bigger than himself.
And I think that he All along the way, and I mean this, if he didn't get confirmed or if Trump didn't win, his energy would be almost identical the next day because he truly lives his life believing if God, if it's meant to happen and I'm the right vessel for it, it will happen.
I'm going to be smart.
He's obviously working the political system better than most ever have.
He grew up in it.
He's designed for it.
I'm sure he would love to change everything tomorrow.
But when I sat with him at dinner, he knows the attacks, they don't bother him from his own side, right?
And the opposite side is always easy.
But the friendly fire, he gets it.
He understands it.
He, in many ways, is forgiving of their lack of knowledge of the world that he's actually in, the vampires and darkness that he's surrounded by.
But most importantly, I think he's seeing every day as every day I survive here, I get to do a little more good.
And, you know, God willing, I last long enough to get this entire job done.
But he sees that as being out of his hands.
I think he's playing some chess with Trump just to make sure Trump stays happy on some things that they may not agree.
I think he knows, can't piss him off.
I'm going to get all these other things done that I can.
And I think he's got to be ecstatic that he's really making some big, sweeping changes right now and moving everything in the right direction.
So he seems to be having the time of his life and I couldn't do it.
I'm too, it does take compromise.
I'm too much of a right fighter.
I can't, as strategic as I believe myself to be, I'm not as strategic as he is.
And I, he is designed for this.
And we are so lucky in this nation and the world is lucky that this man, through efforts by guys like you and me and so many people that came from our different walks of life, I mean, this is a ragtag team that came together and has pulled off really a political miracle.
And I, you know, I think he's making huge change.
My concerns right now is how do we make sure that they're fortified and can stand the test of time.
Lucky Ragtag Team00:04:42
Yeah, I agree with you exactly.
You know, I don't know how Bobby does it because I think actually you and I both know where his heart is and how much he knows about what needs to happen.
And he's watching the clock too.
And so the ability to be strategic when you can see everything that's at stake and you must want to put your foot on the gas, it's a remarkable quality.
And anyway, I'm glad he's doing it.
He is the strongest argument for the Trump administration having been a success.
And I'm worried too about the midterms.
But anyway, let's hope that goes well.
Yeah.
Well, I'm not into hope as much as much action as I can for.
And I'm sure we'll talk more about strategies on what we need to do there.
But it's in our hands.
It's back in the people's hands at the moment.
And, you know, I think we've shown we can get people elected.
I think we can make a difference.
It is certainly not a time to be apathetic.
And it is definitely not a time to think that this battle is over in any way.
Yeah.
I wish at some level, the scorn that is heaped on Bobby by people who've just not yet made eye contact with what a good person he is and what he is doing on their behalf as they are fighting him.
I wish more people would just think for a moment whether or not what they have seen is actually a match for what they have been told about it.
Yeah.
Right.
Just compare those two things.
Is this person an insane person?
No, this is a person with encyclopedic knowledge.
Is this, you know, as you point out, what is his motive to get rid of safe and effective vaccines for children?
Is he a monster?
No.
Doesn't look like a monster.
Those of us who know him know he isn't one.
So anyway, if people could just realize something is off about what they've been told.
Yeah.
And then go back with the fresh eyes and look at what he's doing and realize, oh, wow, this is long overdue.
And nobody else could have done it.
Exactly.
All right.
Del Bigtree, it's been great chatting with you.
Where can people find you?
I do a weekly podcast called theHighWire.com.
You can go there, interview all the great people on the planet that are waking up to all sorts of different realities like yourself.
And the other website I think is very important right now is an inconvenientstudy.com.
The film is free.
The nonprofit funded our ability to do it.
I think we're nearing 100 million views worldwide, which is very exciting.
It's sparked a scientific debate.
And my favorite thing about the film is how many people reach out to me and say, I have been trying to get my relative or someone I love to look at this issue.
And they finally watched that movie and it actually has got them changing how they think.
I think it's a really, really great tool.
The way it's designed, it's simple, understandable, and it really defends itself very well.
It makes its points.
So everyone should be sharing that.
I think it's a game changer.
And I don't think we're going to have another opportunity like this.
Not, I mean, not the way this is set up.
That film is a study done by the other side.
It has a power to it that it's only the second film I've made.
I mean, people think, I mean, I do a weekly talk show, but I made facts.
I don't make documentaries because it's just no, I was like, I don't feel like that's a documentary that wouldn't be a good story.
Very proud of this.
There's a reason why it's the second one.
So those two websites right now will get you to everything I'm doing.
And I'm going to be starting a new podcast soon that'll just be more getting to the basics of conversation.
I love this.
I love you, Brett.
You're such an inspiration in how you're seeing the world.
And I don't know if I was interviewing you here or not, but I really want to sit with you because I am trying to figure out how we recalibrate.
We're in a place we never dreamed we'd be, but I don't want to sit in awe of it.
I want to use it to our advantage to make sure we get everything done.
You got to make hay while the sun shines.
No question about it.
Well, I hope everybody will consider: hey, is tonight the night that you should go watch this film?
I think it might be.
It's an hour and a half, and you'll be glad you saw it.