No Exceptions: A Story of Medical Tyranny in Australia
Betty Pezzimenti runs her own food truck and catering business. She is facing a vaccine mandate with which she can not comply for health reasons, and from which she cannot seem to get an exemption. Betty’s catering business: https://www.theearthlysweetspot.com.au/Find Betty on Twitter: @BettySera3 --- Find Bret Weinstein on Twitter: @BretWeinstein, and on Patreon. Please subscribe to this channel for more long form content like this, and subscribe to the clips ...
I am sitting today with Betty Pezzamenti, who is a caterer from Melbourne, Australia.
She is the founder and co-owner of The Earthly Sweet Spot.
Now, this is not the usual Dark Horse podcast.
Betty reached out to me and told me a story about what is taking place with her in Australia, and I must say I was flabbergasted by what I heard.
It was almost impossible to believe.
I looked into the story, and to the extent that I was capable of assessing it, it appears to be absolutely true.
So Betty, welcome to Dark Horse.
I'd like you to tell the audience what you told me about what you're facing.
Yep.
Hi, Brett.
Thank you for the opportunity to be on here and for taking up my story.
So, essentially, given what's going on in Australia,
With the vaccine mandates in our home state, in Victoria, as of two weeks ago, it was mandated that every profession, essentially, to be able to work and participate in most areas of society, you needed to either have a double vaccination status of one of the three available vaccines or have a legal exemption given by your doctor.
And are your vaccines in Australia the same ones that we have in the States?
So we have both the mRNA, so we've got the Pfizer and the Moderna, but we do not have the Johnson & Johnson.
We have AstraZeneca, which seems to be like, on a component level, it seems to be fairly similar into what it contains.
So a way to obtain an exemption is to have a contraindication to one, to having like a pre-existing issue, let's say as an anaphylactic reaction to one of the excipients or components of any of the vaccines.
That can deem you eligible for a permanent exemption.
To getting the vaccinations.
So I was clinically diagnosed six years ago with a polyethylene glycol, or PEGS for short, another name for it is macrogol, excipient.
I have allergies and anaphylaxis to a multitude of things, but the excipients being one of the worst.
So this had been diagnosed and documented.
This component is actually in the mRNA vaccination, so both the Pfizer and Moderna.
It's also chemically similar to another component called polysorbate 80, which is present in both the Johnson & Johnson and the AstraZeneca vaccinations, so there is a high probability of cross-reactivity if you have the polyethylene glycol anaphylactic allergy as well.
So you have a condition in which you will have an allergic reaction to one of the components in the two mRNA vaccines and are likely to have a reaction to a component in the third vaccine to which you have access.
Now are these the only things that you are prone to have an allergic reaction to?
No, they're not.
I do have anaphylactic allergies to other items.
I have a multitude of allergies, but the anaphylaxis is to other excipients as well.
Another one being magnesium stearate.
Which is in like a multitude of things, so supplements, food items as well.
Polyethylene glycols are also in most beauty products, even skincare products and that.
So I've also got anaphylaxis to certain foods, so kiwi, fruit, avocado, they're some of the main culprits.
I have recently reacted to other ingredients that are unknown, which I'm getting investigated currently.
It does seem to be preservatives and also other excipients that are contained in pharmaceuticals as well.
But we haven't pinpointed, my healthcare team hasn't pinpointed exactly what.
But I do have the diagnosis for the other items.
And is there an overarching condition that's been identified?
So I have been diagnosed with a connective tissue disorder that was this year.
It's called Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome.
Whether that is sort of the thing that has, I guess, been the underlying condition to create any of these allergies, I'm not too sure.
There does seem to be an issue with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and mast cell activation syndrome sort of seems to tie into it, but it's still sort of what I've been told is it's early days within the research.
They don't really know how it all sort of intertwines.
But usually someone with the connective tissue disorder does seem to have multiple allergies or high reactivity to things, especially pharmaceuticals and excipients.
Also another issue can be like things like opioid resistance or like anesthetic resistance as well.
And so you've had anaphylactic reactions?
I have, yeah, I've had multiple.
And what happens?
Yep, so generally it comes up in sort of like a hive rash to begin with.
That's, I guess each is quite different depending on if it's something I've used topically, it generally starts as a hive type of rash.
If it's something I've ingested, generally it starts in my mouth.
So if it's like a tablet or something like that, It's first appeared sort of like tongue swelling, lip swelling, itchy throat, then my airways start to close up and then I might break out into hives.
If it's topical generally it'll start with the hives and then kind of do a reverse reaction so then it'll start going into my throat, my lips, my tongue.
I have had anaphylaxis from also Uh, having an injection before it wasn't a vaccination.
It was a cortisone injection.
Actually, that was a different experience.
That was my most severe anaphylactic reaction.
I actually lost consciousness twice.
Um, that I just didn't feel well.
And then I lost consciousness.
I passed out.
Um, When I came to, my body had broken out into hives all over, the throat tightness, couldn't breathe, couldn't see.
I was administered epinephrine, which is the EpiPen, which I lost consciousness again after that.
When I came to, I was vomiting and then I was taken to the ER for monitoring as well, post that.
And so, fair to say that these reactions are a threat to your life and that intervention is necessary to protect you?
Yeah, definitely.
After an anaphylactic reaction, regardless of being administered epinephrine, you have to go to hospital, you have to be monitored because you can actually have a resurgence even if the, after whether it is the epinephrine is used or not, if your symptoms
I guess lesson it can actually resurge so you generally have to go in a hospital for 12 hours for monitoring for this reason and sometimes one dose of epinephrine isn't enough as well.
I've also been after an anaphylactic reaction I was administered types of antihistamines and also another pharmaceutical, Finergan, which also contained the components that I'm anaphylactic to, so it exacerbated my allergic reaction and I was also administered epinephrine that time as well.
And am I correct that epinephrine itself is a hazard?
That the shock to the system is potentially dangerous?
Yeah, I'm like personally, I don't know too much about how it could impact other areas of the body.
Anytime I've had it administered though, it's literally made me feel like I'm about to jump out of my skin, my heart starts racing, it's induced nausea.
Like I said, after that, uh, severe reaction where I lost consciousness after the dose of epinephrine, I actually lost consciousness again.
So whether that was also due to the epinephrine, I'm not sure.
Um, there is also, um, you can also have an issue where you're anaphylactic to epinephrine, which again, never been tested for.
And I would really hope that that wouldn't be something that I would also experience, but it is likely that that can actually be an allergen.
I must say, it's marvelous to see that you actually have a sense of humor about this.
I guess you would have to, but it's shocking as someone who doesn't face this just imagining what it must be like to live with sensitivity to things that don't trouble other people and to never know when you're going to encounter them and therefore when your life will suddenly be
In jeopardy is a it's a shocking thought and anyway, it's you're obviously handling it very well, but Is it I don't know even how to ask this assuming that you have a an anaphylactic reaction and There's medical care available As far as you know, is it guaranteed to work?
No, no.
It could work.
Epinephrine is our best chance of survival with an anaphylactic reaction.
However, it's not guaranteed to work.
All right, so I mean, of course, I know your story, but it would seem that if anybody had justification for an exemption from a mandate, it would have to be you.
You are sensitive at the level that it will produce an anaphylactic reaction to a component of two of the vaccines.
You are sensitive to a wide number of things, making any injection a risk, and the third vaccine to which you have access has a component to which you might be cross-reactive.
So, fair to say that it would clearly put your life in jeopardy to take one of these vaccines?
Yeah, definitely.
Yep.
So, what happened when you went to the doctor and said, I can't take these, I need an exemption?
Yeah, so given that our mandates were coming in and every occupation being on the mandate list, I was like, well, if I don't have my exemption, I legally can't work in the state of Victoria.
Now that's also gone across nationwide, so there's not any state I would be able to over the next few months, given the mandates.
And again, you are you are a caterer working out of a catering vehicle.
So this is not a situation where you're tending to patients indoors in enclosed spaces.
You're working pretty close to outdoors with respect to your interface with anybody else.
And yet you can't work without proof of vaccination.
No, I can't.
Even if I'm in the space by myself, and even if it's a door-down operation, and I'm just literally even doing click-and-collect or contactless delivery, I'm still not legally allowed to work in my home state.
All right, and I interrupted.
You were gonna tell me what happened when you went to your doctor to ask for the exemption that you were obviously due.
Yep, so I went to my GP who knows my history.
She...
I have quite an extensive history.
So my file is quite a big one if, say, I were to take to a new specialist or a new doctor.
So I went to her just thinking it'll be an easy process.
It's stipulated on multiple government websites that if you've got a contraindication and a polyethylene, specifically a polyethylene glycol excipient allergy and the high possibility of polysorbate 80 cross reactivity, you can be granted a permanent exemption specifically a polyethylene glycol excipient allergy and the high possibility of polysorbate 80 cross Exemption to the COVID vaccinations.
So given that this was stipulated on multiple websites in Australia, the Victorian Specialist Immunisation Services, the Melbourne Vaccination Education Centre's website, I know even globally it's been mentioned on the CDC website and numerous ones as well.
It's also stipulated on the Australian Immunisation Register, the form, which is the form that the doctors fill out that gets sent to our Medicare, to be able to be granted this permanent exemption.
So I went to my doctor asking her to fill out this form, it's called the IMO11 form.
She returned to me with saying, I can't give you the exemption due to legal liability.
Wow.
That's incredible.
All right, so...
I still can't quite wrap my mind around any system that has so little discretion in it that someone whose story is as clear as yours and for whom the jeopardy is as severe as the jeopardy that you face can't get an exemption.
Presumably you didn't take no for an answer.
What else has happened?
Well, since that, I was quite perplexed by that.
It didn't seem to make any sense that she said that she couldn't grant me an exemption due to legal liability.
It's also stipulated on all these websites that people that can administer an exemption are general practitioners, clinical immunologists, obstetricians, gynecologists, pediatricians.
So it was like, well, clear as day to me.
I've got the contraindication.
You're my general practitioner.
You know this.
You're my treating doctor.
Why can't you submit this form?
And she just kept saying that, no, I can't.
There's too many legalities around it.
And then she also said to me, the only people that can were a clinical immunologist.
So from there I asked for a referral to my previous clinical immunologist, which was through a public healthcare system at a public hospital.
These were the people who actually diagnosed me six years ago with the polyethylene glycol allergy.
I got back a letter from the hospital saying that the wait would be 12 to 24 months before I could see a clinical immunologist.
Wow.
So, you know, I must say I obviously knew your story before we started talking.
Each time I hear it, I find myself newly shocked and enraged.
I mean, we have Two amazing facts already on the table.
One, the idea that legal liability actually causes someone not to want to give you the exemption, which is of course the exact inverse of what you would expect, right?
The fact that your life will be placed in jeopardy by taking such a vaccination if there's any place where there should be legal liability, it would be that.
A practitioner that failed to give you the exemption is putting your life in jeopardy.
And yet, there is some other kind of jeopardy that frightens this practitioner even more.
And then, as you go to the authority that you're told is the only authority who can grant the exemption, you're told it will take 12 months, did you say?
12 to 24 months, yeah.
A year to two years, during which time you will not be able to work.
Wouldn't be able to work and participate in many facets of society as well.
And so you would basically lose fundamental rights, including the right to earn a living, because you can't get an exemption that, frankly, anyone should understand is absolutely justified.
This is, I mean, it's tragic, and it's also, in some sense, a measure of just how dysfunctional the West has become.
You know, I know Australia is in some sense ahead of the curve with respect to authoritarian measures with response to COVID, but this is just, it's a stunning rejection of the idea of a functional system.
It's the inverse of a functional system.
All right, so you were told you would take 12 to 24 months to get the exemption that would then allow you to return to work.
What happened next?
So I went back to my doctor and told her this is the correspondence I received from the hospital.
It was in written letter form.
Earlier to this I also have a private pain specialist.
He is who I see for about my Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and other conditions.
He was the first one to actually note that there might be mast cell activation issues and that he would recommend me to see a private clinical immunologist.
So I asked my doctor if she could refer me to him, thinking possibly the wait could be a lot shorter.
I just thought, given that my history had been with this other hospital, it was probably best to go see them.
However, I'm happy to go private.
Right, because the other hospital, because they diagnosed the condition in the first place before COVID existed, they obviously know that you couldn't possibly be making this up.
Right?
I mean, no one has better evidence of that than that hospital.
And yet, and yet they couldn't see the necessity of getting you an exemption.
I mean, frankly, a piece of paper that just simply stops this train in motion.
It's incredible.
Exactly, yep.
So I requested to see a private specialist who I've never seen before, which I found out that the wait to see them would be 11 months.
I have to ask you this, Betty.
Is there any way That you're just being too nice when people tell you these incredible things?
Are you saying to them?
Are you looking them in the eye and are you saying, I am a human being.
I am entitled not to have my livelihood destroyed and my life put in jeopardy.
And you're telling me I have to wait a year or more in order to even see the specialist who can write the exemption.
Can you please help me?
Have you said something like that?
With my, I guess my main point of call has been my general practitioner, um, and to hear her say that she couldn't grant me an exemption was quite shocking.
Then to find out these wait times, I thought, no, I just need to go back to her and I need to reiterate how important this is.
Um, so I did once I found out about this weight and I thought I'm going to do this again and I don't care that she said no the first time I'm going to ask.
Um, possibly I have been quite nice and not maybe as assertive Previously, I guess.
Prior to this, I didn't think there would be any issue of me gaining an exemption.
It just sent very clear cut that I was going to be the perfect candidate to gain an exemption given my history and what has been stipulated everywhere on the government websites and the health websites that have thought, oh, this is easy for people like me, especially given that it's been noted that a polyethylene glycol excipient allergy is a very rare case.
Not to mention across all of our media platforms, our mainstream media platforms, the constant message being said is not everyone can get vaccinated and
Essentially people like myself, so the ones who can't get vaccinated, are being used in this way, call it propaganda if you will, but they are literally saying get vaccinated for those who can't.
Yes, this is also my thought, is it would seem the propaganda here too says, look, not everybody is lucky enough to be able to accept this vaccine.
Not everyone can take it.
It is the obligation of those who can to do it for the vulnerable.
Who can't.
Now, if the system is not giving you an exemption, if it doesn't understand you as somebody in need of protection, presumably from both COVID and the vaccines, then who is this for?
Who are we protecting if not you?
Exactly, and that's why all this exemption process just seemed to make no sense to me, because it just felt like, well, what is the good of the exemptions?
If they're not granting them for people like me, or it is near impossible to be granted this.
So I returned to my doctor and requested again.
I said, look, the mandates are coming in.
That was that week.
I said, the mandates are coming in this week.
I cannot legally earn a living.
I was also told that I may not be able to see my psychologist in person due to this.
So I'm also being denied access.
Two other health industries.
There are some doctors that are refusing to see patients, especially face-to-face.
They're doing telehealth, but face-to-face if they're not vaccinated.
You're being denied access to important aspects of civilization, including healthcare, by virtue of the fact that you can't get an exemption to which you were obviously entitled.
And I must say in my own defense, I did not mean to suggest that there's any part of me that thinks any of the responsibility here is on you.
Even if you're being too nice, it is the obligation of other human beings to understand what has to take place here in order for the right outcome to occur.
These are people who have the power to write an exemption.
Yes.
And somehow are not providing it to you, though we're literally, I mean, we're literally talking about an issue of your ability not only to earn a living, but to survive.
Yeah.
That's... Exactly.
It is a stunning failure of these people's obligation to a fellow human being.
It just, it boggles the mind.
Yeah, it really does.
You know, do no harm.
Stated in the Hippocratic Oath, it just seems as though it's completely gone out the window.
Well, not even just out the window, but it's been inverted.
Apparently they are willing to do harm to you.
The obvious way not to do harm is to give you this, and somehow the legal jeopardy has caused them to turn it on its head.
It's incredible.
Yeah, yeah and like and then it just continued down this essentially windy road of next my doctor when I approached her again to ask for this exemption.
She again reiterated, no I can't, there's too many legalities around it.
I said, can you see though my concern considering the mandates have just come in?
I can't legally work.
The wait time is anywhere from now 11 months to two years.
I don't know, I really, I feel like I'm just stuck in this limbo world now.
I don't know what to do.
And she had even said to me, if I were to request her vaccinate me, she would say no because of my anaphylaxis and that it was too risky to do it in her practice.
Now, you haven't told me that before.
I mean, this is, yeah, this is, this is, it's Kafkaesque, right?
A doctor who knows that she can't afford to vaccinate you Right?
I mean, at least she has the good sense not to do that.
Perhaps for the wrong reason.
But a doctor who knows that your medical condition does not allow her to responsibly vaccinate you cannot write you an exemption that says it would be irresponsible to vaccinate this person.
I just don't even... I don't understand I mean really at some level you've just discovered a system in which all discretion has been removed.
And I have to imagine that what's going on is that there is such antipathy for people like myself who fear that there are things about these vaccines that may put anyone in jeopardy, that the desire to prevent folks like us
from finding an exemption has caused them to remove exemptions from the map and they're literally putting you in danger of your life in order not to grant an exception to someone else and that no no rational system could possibly function that way it's really you know they have they have decided to sabotage their own system because of their anger at a certain
class of person and I must tell you, I mean you and I obviously aren't in the same system since I'm American and you're Australian, but to the extent that my concerns, which I think are legitimate, are causing them to break a system That that now can't protect you, I feel some responsibility for it.
I do.
And, you know, I don't feel that it would be safe to get the vaccine, but certainly I would probably get away with it.
I'm in a far better position to do it than you.
And I hate that we're being pitted against each other like this.
What kind of crazy world have we landed in?
It's literally, since all this, After hearing that from my doctor, she said she would try again for the public system, saying, you know, urgent, this is vaccine related, to see if it could progress me in the queue to be seen.
I was quite emotional from all this.
I just was not expecting any of this to happen.
I posted a video on Instagram to my tiny little audience that I have, essentially just being like, this is my story and I don't know what to do.
It doesn't seem to make any sense to me.
I was just screaming out into the ether and To my surprise, the story blew up.
It went viral overnight.
I had a mix of reactions.
I actually had a lot of people in the same boat as me contact me because of this.
And then I also had some people in society saying, well, not being aware of this was going on to people like me, they were shocked to find out that the people that Supposedly, other ones that they're getting vaccinated for, as the propaganda is saying, aren't getting granted exemptions or are getting put through the wringer with this.
However, there were some in society saying to me, anaphylaxis isn't that bad, why don't you just go get the vaccine?
Um, I would, I hope that the people who said that to you don't know anything about anaphylaxis because the idea that this is something that because there's a checkbox of what you're supposed to do when somebody has an anaphylactic reaction that it's something that we can just budget for is obvious nonsense.
I mean, Not only, not only is the anaphylactic reaction a lethal hazard to you and the treatment for it not a safe treatment and a treatment that can fail, but it is also the case that the vaccines themselves, their very nature causes them to reprogram elements of your immune system.
You're obviously somebody with an unusual physiology that creates unusual jeopardy for you, encountering things in the world.
You are the last person who can afford to have your immune system reprogrammed in some unpredictable way that might cause you to become allergic to new things, things that today you don't have to worry about, but a week from today you might.
There is no justification, and I mean, I will also say This isn't smallpox.
COVID is a serious disease, but it is not a disease that kills healthy people very regularly.
And therefore, the benefit that comes from vaccinating a single person like you is probably near zero.
The chances that anyone will be protected, especially in a place like Australia that has a low rate of COVID to begin with, the chances that any benefit comes to anyone from doing this to you is very, very low.
And the risk of harm to you is not only very high, but the harm itself is likely very extreme.
Yes.
So, every single parameter of your story is clear.
They're all clear.
There's no reason.
If you wanted to test the system to see if it could grant an exemption, you would be the perfect case.
You just check every box and see if you get an exemption, and if you don't, that says there are no exemptions.
Yes.
Right?
That's a frightening condition.
It is, and since all of this there... I guess since I made my story public and the video going viral, it was also picked up by a local Australian Broadcasting News Station, which gave me airtime to discuss this, who again, very similarly to you, said that this is very clear cut.
I am the perfect case to be granted an exemption.
But prior to that, after seeing my GP as well, I was then contacted by an organisation which I was never referred to.
They're called the Victorian Specialist Immunisation Services.
As far as I can see, they have actually taken over the immunology clinic at my treating hospital.
I was contacted by one of their nurses who asked me who diagnosed me with the polyethylene glycol allergy and I actually said to her, well, your hospital did.
And she said, oh, well, I haven't looked into your file.
And she said, well, let's see how we can get you in here to vaccinate you safely.
Which concerned me because I was like, well, there wouldn't be a way.
I'm diagnosed anaphylactic.
What I'm seeking is an exemption.
And she turned to me and said, oh no, we don't give exemptions.
This is a person working in a hospital.
In a hospital, yeah.
Who actually made the argument that you should come in, have the vaccination, and if and when you have your reaction, they can treat you with the epinephrine right then and there.
That's correct.
Which, I mean, obviously it's better than sending you home, but wow, how does a medical professional fail to understand the jeopardy that they're putting you to?
Yeah yeah and I think this is where like risk versus benefit has completely gone out the window because it's it's like I will I know I have anaphylactic reactions to these excipients um anytime I've ingested one put it on my skin I've always had some type of reaction the severity um could be somewhat more mild at times or somewhat more severe However, it's a life risk.
We know that anaphylaxis is not a small... a low risk issue.
It is quite high.
It can cause death.
And quickly, as well.
So to be told that, that just spun me out even more.
and I and yeah I was really just I had no idea where to go and so I took it to social media with my video and then in like this bizarre twist of fate um someone although I never mentioned the name of my doctor um someone had seen my video This is my clinical immunologist, the private one that I was told the wait would be 11 months to see.
Got me into a cancellation spot with him in the next four days.
So if I never made that video at my wits end, if it never went viral, this would never have happened.
I saw him.
I gave him all my documentation.
All of the correspondence from my treating hospital who said that they didn't look into my file or didn't know about the polyethylene glycol being recorded at their hospital.
I had all that correspondence.
I took it with him.
My GP also has all this correspondence.
And he literally said to me, this is clear cut.
You cannot receive these vaccinations.
The possibility of you also, you have the documented polyethylene glycol allergy.
There's no point in skin prick testing me for this because I've actually had an, I actually had an anaphylactic reaction from skin prick testing before, which ended up resulting in me having epinephrine administered at my treating hospital from the polyethylene glycol component.
He said there is no point testing you for this, not to mention also the issue with skin prick testing is it can be completely different when something is injected into your system.
Um, at a concentrated level as well.
Your body can react differently.
So he, he mentioned all this to me and he said the pot, there is a huge potentiality that the poly, I will react to polysorbate 80.
Um, and given that I have had an anaphylactic reaction induced by skin prick testing, I, I'm, I'm sort of, it could react quite badly with me just even getting the testing done for this.
So he actually filed that evening my IMO11 certificate to the Australian Immunisation Register, ticking all the boxes for my permanent exemption, saying that I cannot get these vaccinations.
That was lodged three weeks ago and I still have not received my exemption.
When I have... Oh, sorry.
Go ahead.
No, I'm just going to ask you the obvious question.
Do you have any idea what's happened?
I've called the Australian Immunization Register, which are an arm of our Medicare, which is federally run.
So this is now out of the hand of the state government.
I have called three representatives for this to find out what is going on.
Each time I've been told a different story.
The first time I was told that she could see my exemption in the queue, this was last week, and that they were backlogged.
However, they were up to the date of October 20th to process.
Mine was submitted on October 26th, so it shouldn't take too much longer.
Still hadn't received anything yesterday.
I phoned them again in the morning.
They actually stated to me that they Now wait a minute.
the exemption however it was illegible to read so they requested that my doctor send a new one which was then received on november the 2nd and i am being placed back in the queue now wait a minute i mean i think i'm fairly good at spotting bullshit and i think i
i may have spotted a healthy dose of bullshit here because this suggests the fact that there is a queue and that yes well we can see yours in it and we are working our way towards it suggests that exemptions are being granted and Now, if exemptions are being granted...
What the hell have you encountered?
Why are you having such trouble getting the system to recognize the obvious need for you to have one?
Or are they just telling you that exemptions are being granted as a stalling tactic?
So once they go through this process, although your doctor may write the exemption, it doesn't mean that you're granted it.
The government can still deny it.
Right, but, again, Betty, look, either there's a discretionary process somewhere where some human being gets to put an eyeball on an application and say, you know what, this one's just clear-cut, let's grant the exemption, or there isn't a process, and the point is, well, there really aren't any exemptions, but we can't very well say that, can we?
And I can't... It would seem, if there is an actual process of exemptions, then you shouldn't have faced any of this.
And if there's no process of exemptions, then what are they telling you?
Right?
That it's in a queue?
I mean, maybe you've nailed it.
Maybe the idea is, oh yes, we haven't gotten around to rejecting your exemption yet.
We've still got many ahead of you that need to be rejected.
Maybe that's what they're saying.
I mean, it's really, you know, it's a...
It's a customer service nightmare is what you're facing.
Where something doesn't want to give you something you're entitled to.
And so it's going to come up with every excuse.
And I'm without words.
Yeah, it's been the phone conversations I had yesterday, especially hearing that it was requested that my doctor sent a legible copy considering the first representative that I spoke to read to me that she could read my exemption.
She saw it.
She read out what was on it.
So that sounded like it was legible to me.
I was confused when this second representative said that it was illegible.
So I contacted my private doctor again, who said no, there was no request for a second form to be sent.
So they told you that they had requested a legible one, because the one they got was illegible, and the person to whom they would have made that request had not gotten a request.
Yes.
Well, that does sound like what would happen if they were bullshitting.
Yes, it does.
It does.
It seems to unravel a lot of this messy ball of twine that has now been put in front of me.
So I rang them again and I got another representative who said that now I had, they could see that I had two forms, so one that was submitted on the 26th and one that was submitted on the 2nd.
Now I was like, I'm very confused because my doctor has said that they haven't sent a second.
They actually asked me, would they like me?
Would they want me to send one?
So I said to this representative, I'm very confused.
Why do you have two documents and who are they from?
And he looked at both and said to me, they're from the same doctor.
I said, well, how do you have two when my doctor hasn't sent a second?
I said, unless it was because my doctor had faxed one and sent one by mail at the same time.
And he said, that could be the reason.
I said, well, then why did this representative earlier tell me that a second one had been requested because the first was illegible?
It seems like a made up story now.
And I said, so what's going to be getting processed?
And he literally said he didn't know.
He did not know if my... And I said, well, I'm told that the one on the 26th Because also the earlier representative had told me now that they're up to the 29th of October.
So clearly my one on the 26th didn't get approved.
So now I must wait for my one on the 2nd of November to be approved.
Yet when I spoke to this third representative, he said, oh no, we're not up to the 29th.
We're only up to the 26th.
Oh, it's, it's, it's unbearable.
It's unbearable.
Where did the humans go?
You're obviously dealing with some kind of human looking, human sounding drone.
I can't, there's...
I wish I knew what to say.
I really have the sense that even in a very broken system, and this has been my experience, even in a very broken system, there is generally somebody who upon seeing a story like yours would know the way to make it work out, right?
Somebody would recognize the necessity, the importance here, and somebody, for whatever reason, just basic human decency, would say, ah, you need to file a Form 22-738B, right?
And you've got to send it to this office and not that office, and then they can send back a such-and-such.
And yet, you've clearly, you've made enough inquiries, you've been to enough places, you've talked to enough people, that there just doesn't seem to be anyone who can, who can staunch the bleeding.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
And speaking of staunching bleeding, I know from the time we spoke before that anaphylaxis is not the only medically unusual parameter from your condition, and the others, at least one of them, is relevant to these vaccinations and the possible hazard that they pose to you.
Do you want to say something about that?
Yeah, so my, again, my clinical immunologist stressed especially at the fact of clearly I'm going to have anaphylaxis to both of the mRNA vaccines.
There is a high probability of having it to the AstraZeneca due to the polysorbate 80 cross reactivity.
His other concern with the AstraZeneca is the fact that I do have a bleeding condition as well.
It can be linked in with the Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome.
There are different types of Ehlers-Danlos you can have.
My doctor has suspected that I possibly have a condition called classical as I have issues with heavy bleeding issues.
I get concurrent nosebleeds out of nowhere where sometimes I will use three block Boxes of Kleenex just on one random nosebleed.
If I cut myself, I bleed a lot.
I bruise very easily.
My skin is quite soft and stretchy.
Again, another condition of this.
Splitting skin.
My lips, on a regular basis, swell up, especially if I'm having an allergic reaction, and they will just start bleeding.
My gums bleed daily.
I have heavy menstrual cycles.
I've actually, another concern of his was that, because I am a migraine sufferer, I have been placed on the contraceptive pill multiple in the past.
I was actually rushed to the ER one night with a suspected blood clot as I had a stroke-like episode where half of my body went numb on the left-hand side, my face drooped, my eye, my vision got impaired and I was slurring my words.
I had an emergency MRI and I was told that I could not take the contraceptive pill for this reason.
I also hemorrhaged for two months straight due to it.
So this has all been a concern as well with especially the AstraZeneca vaccination and the side effects from that.
Well, so obviously this is an entirely other independently sufficient reason that it would be absurd in the case of a disease like COVID and vaccines like these, which are not especially effective, do not prevent people from contracting COVID or transmitting it, that this is another independently sufficient reason that you should obviously be exempted.
So what is the state of the story now?
You're just simply waiting to see if this magical cue ever advances to the point that a legible copy of your application makes it to a person with a rubber stamp?
Or what is it?
I guess so, that is all I'm doing.
I'm awaiting this exemption to come in.
Over here we have a TIC system.
So in your government account, which links our Australian Tax Office, our Medicare, our Centrelink, our health records, Um, all under one umbrella in this government app.
We all have to download, which will show our green tick of approval, which we can use to work, attend venues, shop in society.
This is, so when the exemption is granted, this will appear on our phone.
So, or when you get your double COVID vaccination, this will appear on your phone and you can use it.
Now a couple of weeks ago I actually did speak to a doctor from this VicSys company.
They have called me on a private number.
There is no return phone line for this service.
Given that I said that I was awaiting a permanent exemption, because she called me after I spoke to my private allergist, I said I am waiting to receive my permanent exemption.
She said, in the meantime, do you have anything in your myGov to prove That you cannot get these vaccinations?
I said no I don't.
She said well I will upload a temporary exemption and when your permanent comes in that will override the temporary.
She uploaded into my MyGov that I have a contraindication to both mRNA vaccines but not the AstraZeneca so I do not have a legal exemption.
Uploaded into my MyGov account.
I have a contraindication for one month to tour the vaccinations.
I do not know how long this process is going to take to be granted this permanent exemption.
I was told by Medicare, when I asked them if they knew who had accessed my file to upload this, they said they could not see who it was.
From my end, I cannot see who it is.
There is no contact number for this department, the VIXIS, so I cannot even contact this woman to know what this exactly means, where the third contraindication so I cannot even contact this woman to know what this exactly means, where
Yeah, so and from this as well, our, you know, In Victoria, we are under a state of emergency by our state government.
There is a bill that is getting pushed through Parliament.
The bill is the Public Health and Wellbeing Amendment, the Pandemic Management Bill.
This is to come into effect, if it passes, by December 16.
In this bill, it could literally be used to say that people with an exemption, it is not valid.
It could invalidate exemptions that have been legally granted.
Yes, it is.
Essentially, this bill can declare a permanent pandemic status in our state of Victoria, even when there is no COVID present in the state or the country.
Hmm, what could possibly go wrong?
So, alright, we will return to the question of what an ominous provision like that implies about the state of Victoria and of the West.
There is a last piece of your story, I hope we haven't skipped anything, but you mentioned something that I didn't know about, a new development in the story.
Do you want to mention that?
Are you at liberty to do so?
Sorry, in regards to... You mentioned a raid that had taken place.
Oh yes, so as of yesterday a family doctor in a local doctor's surgery located in Melbourne, he's been a practicing doctor for 30 years.
Yesterday he was raided by the Department of Health and Human Services or the DHHS by seven officials.
He was raided.
It was shared on the mainstream media.
It has also been shared on an independent journalist site.
An independent journalist was actually present to film the whole scenario.
As they raided him, they said it was due to him giving out exemptions to people like myself.
I have never seen this doctor.
However, given everything going on, I had multiple people, including my legal representative, say to me, go and find a new GP who will grant you the exemption.
Again, your case being clear cut.
Me feeling as though, as well, I do have an extensive history.
It's not as simple as me just finding a GP and having a 10 minute consultation.
Someone had actually mentioned to me this doctor may be able to help me.
The person actually that gave me the contact number was someone in a political party in Australia.
Um, when I phoned his receptionist I was told he's not accepting new patients and that is fair enough, that has been said for quite a few doctors.
So, um, I just left it at that.
Yesterday I found out via the news that this exact doctor had been raided by the DHHS.
What they had done, they have taken all the private patient documents Um, all of their health records, they have seized them.
They have seized his log books for his, um, for any of his appointments and his appointment book.
They were harassing his receptionist, asking what her vaccination status was.
Um, and he is not allowed to practice at the moment due to this.
And this all eventuated yesterday.
Wow, now obviously there could be something about this doctor's story that you don't know.
There could be something that justifies that kind of intervention.
On the other hand, it certainly does seem consistent with the world in which I certainly know here in the U.S.
that doctors who are alarmed by the adverse event signal associated with the vaccines um are under intense pressure to do things that do not seem to be uh in their correct medical judgment so you know there's there's also the possibility that this is just
Simply authoritarianism marching through your medical structure and punishing and blocking the action of doctors who are using their own judgment and deciding who needs an exemption, which is of course exactly what you would want a doctor to do.
to evaluate an individual case and say, yes, this person needs an exemption.
That person doesn't need an exemption.
That's the system functioning.
And here it may well have triggered a raid and the capturing of private citizens' medical files by the government.
So, I guess that brings us to the question.
You know, I certainly hope that this broadcast reaches whoever needs to be reached in Australia and that the sheer embarrassment of your terrifying story causes, at the very least, your individual case to be resolved in a way that protects your health as best we can collectively do so.
I also hope that anyone else who needs an exemption finds one because this story causes the necessary discretion to be restored to the system so that it does not generate tragedy after tragedy and podcast after podcast about terrifying losses of the ability to earn.
For example, and just for starters, I mean really at some level You are being placed in a predicament where your livelihood will be lost if you do not accept a vaccination that puts your life in jeopardy.
And if you Do not take this life jeopardizing vaccination, you lose a substantial fraction of your natural rights as a citizen.
Your right to move about freely, your right to earn a living, you become a partial prisoner in your home.
That is simply perfectly inconsistent with the rights that the founders of the Western way of life recognized.
You have the right to live normally and there's nothing about this pandemic that justifies this level of authoritarianism.
And to have this level of authoritarianism pushing vaccines of such low quality and such dubious safety Especially pushing them towards somebody with such vulnerability really reveals the entire problem.
The system is absolutely out of control.
We citizens don't know what it's about, but we can tell from your story and many others that we are dealing with customer service.
We are not dealing with a public health apparatus.
We are not dealing with government in any normal sense.
We are dealing with customer service, which wishes to deny us something and will give us every excuse in the book in order to do so.
And I did not think we would ever find ourselves here.
I mean, just think about the fact of us having this discussion across, you know, across a diagonal over the Pacific Ocean.
That we should have to talk about the failure of the West because nothing else captures a failure that stretches from Australia to North America to Europe.
It's remarkable, and I wish I knew what it was we were supposed to do next.
I do have the sense that many people died to provide us the liberties that we are now losing, and that that is supposed to be capturing our attention in a way that it has not yet.
Yeah, it feels quite surreal, especially when Poland was even offering that its dual citizens who were living in Victoria, essentially, refuge over in Poland to get out of our state due to what is going on over here.
When we're having the, you know, The Polish Embassy saying things like that.
It's what have we become as, you know, a first world westernized country where our citizens are needing to seek refuge elsewhere because our home state is illivable.
This is terrifying.
As a Jew, I'm 52 years old.
When I was a kid, the Holocaust seemed like ancient history.
I, of course, now as an adult know that it was not, that it was very recent.
But I certainly was led to understand by my elders, my elders who had seen the Holocaust.
That it could happen anywhere, and that one needed to be alert to the fact that this authoritarian menace can emerge, that this is a defect in the human psyche, and the fact that things seem to be humming along at one moment does not mean that you don't need to be aware of the possibility, because it can emerge at any time.
What no one ever alerted me to, and what I think no one ever contemplated, was that it could happen everywhere at once.
That's a terrifying possibility, and I am struck by the fact that Australia is certainly one of the places that would have been highest on my list of places to run to if my own country had ever done this.
I am now watching, I know two people personally, one an individual and one the father of a family who are literally fleeing Australia.
They've sold what they have and they are doing everything in their power to get out because the authoritarianism is clearly advancing and nobody knows where it stops.
I don't know what it's going to take to wake us up, but I think the fact is this isn't exactly what we were warned about, but it's clearly a close relative of it.
Yeah, it has completely, I guess, blindsided quite a lot of us and there was still all this talk through, I guess, especially 2020 and leading into 2021, especially with the reopening over our summer before we went into our more recent snap Seven day lockdown, which lasted seven months.
That, you know, things were on the up and up.
Possibly we're going back to reopening.
Our economy has completely suffered from this over here.
Nearly every second store here is for lease.
People are, you know, leaving.
Our state of Victoria actually has the highest number of people who have left to other areas, whether it be other countries or other states, but the rate of Victorians especially leaving due to the fact that we are the most locked down place in the world, with the hardest lockdowns as well.
Is that true?
I did not know that that was a formal fact.
You have the most stringent lockdowns of anywhere on earth?
Yeah, and for the longest time.
And what explanation are you given for that?
It's for our health.
It's literally all over.
I don't really watch mainstream media, but when I get glimpses of it, it still seems that it's being propagated that this is all for health.
However, when I'm someone with an allergy like anaphylaxis and I'm being told to get the vaccination that will induce anaphylaxis, it doesn't seem like it's for health at all.
It's, you know, the mental health impacts that this is creating.
It's almost not even allowed to be a discussion anymore.
It's almost like we've gone backward and mental health has now become another taboo.
It's quite insane to see where we are, especially in our state.
I know personally I can express this story.
We lost a property due to this.
We had a property in the city of Melbourne.
This is me and my mother.
And we actually sold it at a loss because we could not get it tenanted for over a year due to the lockdowns.
So we sold it due to this and lost profit.
Not even profit, we actually lost of what we spent on the property.
But we just... It was costing us more to even keep it.
You lost a property.
You lost the value of the property.
You didn't even just have to sell it.
Is that what you're telling me?
Yeah.
So this is having drastic impacts on your financial situation.
So were you to try to survive without earning a living, this is also now eroding what you had acquired.
That which might have helped you get through this period, however long it's supposed to be.
And you know, I think, I think you You made the point very clearly just a moment ago.
You're being told that this is for your health.
But obviously you're the proof that that can't possibly be right.
If this was about health, then an exemption for you would be a top priority.
The fact that an exemption for you has so far not emerged and that you've been put through the ringer in the pursuit of it suggests that this is definitely about something else.
And I must say I have the very same feeling here in the US.
I look at our public health policy and it is Almost to a measure the inverse of what we should be doing if we wished to control this pandemic, to prevent people from getting sick, to reduce the severity of their illness, to reduce the chances that they will transmit it to others.
We are doing almost the inverse of what would be right.
And I think your story has also this characteristic.
It is the inverse of what you would expect if this was about health.
So, I don't know what to make of that, other than I think we are still in search of the answer of what this is actually about.
And, you know, presumably most of the people doing this don't have any...
Sorry.
Presumably most of the people doing this don't have any idea themselves.
They're just functioning as automatons.
They're cogs in a system.
But someone knows.
And I think it's about time we found out.
Yeah, I think so, because it's making it impossible to even plan a future or plan next week, especially our legislation keeps changing literally on a daily basis.
Even the exemption process changed last week.
After I had an appearance on Sky News Australia and then the next day the legislation around exemptions changed as a directive from our Chief Health Officer in Victoria as well, making it stricter for exemptions prior to that.
A letter from your GP was granted as an exemption that you could legally use in society.
However, coming in effect of November the 12th, so tomorrow, those letters are now void.
Wow.
And what can you tell me, as we're wrapping up here, what can you tell me about how the Australian public understands this?
I see periodically when I go and I look at sources of news that aren't necessarily mainstream, I see quite a bit of unrest.
And I of course know, as I mentioned before, these stories of my friends who are fleeing.
That paints one kind of picture.
And then one gets a very different sort of picture if one looks at mainstream sources.
What's it like on the ground?
It's... We have protests on a regular basis here.
Nationwide.
Especially in our home state in Victoria, specifically in Melbourne.
The protest numbers are growing and there has been a lot of, I guess, the mainstream sources usually saying that participants are far-right extremists or neo-nazis or anti-vax conspiracy theorists, what have you.
That's generally what it gets painted as.
We do have a few On the ground live stream journalists who will film the entire protest and exactly what's going on and speak to the people.
We're actually having protests recently now led by opposition leaders of the parliament.
We are a labour-run state.
We are having Other parties and representatives from our Liberal government speaking out about this new pandemic legislation getting put forward.
The numbers in the protests are growing.
They're happening more regularly.
The people aren't happy with what's going on in the state and they don't feel like Our best interest is at heart, especially given this new bill that is being put forward.
We're even having, as I said, politicians leading the way in these protests, giving speeches on the stairs of Parliament.
There has been, during the lockdowns, as things have started to reopen, Our police force are walking alongside protesters as, you know, just to make sure that it's all kept, I guess, contained.
So the police are not supportive.
They're there... I don't know.
You would have to guess, I would imagine, but they're there to intimidate or...?
Well um currently our police seem to be there they seem to be there to control in case a scenario got out of hand however only as of a couple of weeks ago protests were not allowed in our state so the police force being present were not only there to intimidate but they were Essentially antagonizing.
They were rocking up in riot gear.
There was tear gas grenades.
There were rubber bullets being pelted.
We're an unarmed society.
They were being pelted with rubber bullets.
Really?
Yeah.
This was happening.
Rubber bullets, which sounds a lot nicer than it is.
Rubber bullets are quite dangerous.
We saw some of the footage from some of the people that actually got hit with them and there was skin broken and there was blood.
There were mounted police all over the city.
This is what our, you know, our Our taxpayers' money is going on.
Yes, your enlightened society has broken down into the stigmatizing of protesters as, what did you say?
You said conspiracy theorists, right-wingers, anti-vaxxers and neo-Nazis.
Yes.
Interesting, I've been accused of all of those things, even though each of them... Yeah, I've maybe not neo-Nazi, I've certainly been accused of being a Nazi, but I'm in each case the opposite of that.
Who are the protesters?
If those labels are fiction, if you went to the protest and you interviewed people, what kind of folks would you find?
You would find like and this is the thing I think you know in any group you may find some of those subgroups so you may find the ones who are potentially more on the anti-vax spectrum or I couldn't really say I don't think I've ever met a neo-nazi so I wouldn't be able to describe that.
They're pretty rare these days.
However, most of them are just general citizens.
Most of them are fearful of their children's future.
A lot of them, especially given that they are now taught, and some people are fearful as well, of the fact that the mandates are coming into effect into schools as well, so kids are going to need to be vaccinated to be able to attend school.
Parents are worried about this given the nature of these rushed vaccinations and how safe it may be.
And most of these parents, they're not anti-vaxxers.
I've spoken to them.
They have said, I have vaccinated my kid with other vaccinations.
This is exactly where I am.
I will not have my children vaccinated with these vaccines because there's no medical reason to do it.
Right?
They're a danger to these kids, and these kids have essentially, I mean, a healthy child has essentially no risk from COVID.
My children are healthy, but we have vaccinated our children completely.
In fact, beyond what most families do, because we've traveled with them to places that have some fairly exotic pathogens, and we've gotten them vaccinations.
I personally, when I was a professor, used to lecture on the beauty of vaccination and how it works, right?
The idea of informing the immune system about an enemy that no ancestor of yours has seen, and that being a way to get a jump on the infection so it never gets to the point of making you sick.
I still think that's incredibly beautiful.
But that doesn't mean that every component of the vaccines is beautiful.
It doesn't mean that any given vaccine is safe.
It doesn't mean any of these things.
And were you to make an argument like, well, vaccines are safe, it implies that the system that checks whether they're safe is extremely well protected from corruption, which it isn't.
We have a system we know to be corrupt.
Exactly, and I think this has literally shone a light on that.
Especially for myself, you know, I could see some things happening.
However, when it directly impacted me in this exemption process, I didn't actually realize the can of worms I was going to be opening with this.
And to see the overreach of government.
I've actually had politicians who I reached out to messaging me back saying it's a real shame but doctors are unable to even be doctors.
They're making it almost impossible here with this overreach.
It's, you know, I've had some private information, seen medical information, Expressed to me by a third party that I have never spoken to before, who have known some Personal private information about my medical history, and I was not sure where they had gotten this.
When I spoke to my legal representative, I was literally told, it's the government.
If they want to know anything about you, they can, which seems like a violation of our rights and privacy.
We have acts and bills in place to protect us as citizens from this happening.
Yeah, it's like a combination of every great dystopian narrative, right?
It's like you don't know whether it's Kafka, or it's Orwell, or you're in Brazil, or your story about your vaccination status in your phone app reminds me of Logan's Run.
You know, I don't know what movie I'm in, but I know it ain't a good one, right?
Yes exactly even the fact that now you can't plead ignorance here either if you're not up to date with the recent CHO directives which again like I said they literally change them on a daily basis you have to tune in in the morning and watch it on the mainstream media or on your tablet or where have you to know what the new rules and regulations are and you cannot plead ignorant if you were
Doing the wrong thing in society, which is not following a CHO directive, you can face a penalty.
You can face a fine.
And it does seem very much like that tuning in, like we have seen in 1984 to Big Brother in the morning.
And it does seem very much like that.
Yeah.
Well, all right.
Two final points.
One, I keep looking at what's taking place in Australia, and I keep checking in with the part of me that two years ago would have said, ah, that would be exactly the place to go if you ever needed shelter from authoritarianism elsewhere in the West.
and realizing, well, I guess I had that wrong, but I also wonder if you're not six months ahead of us because of the inversion of the seasons.
You are, of course, in spring, we are here in autumn, and this is a seasonal disease.
So I very much hope that I am wrong, but I do wonder if we will look at ourselves in six months and see Things that mirror what you all are facing down under at this moment.
I very much hope that that's not the case, but I fear it might be.
Now finally, when we spoke in preparation for this, I suggested that you get a Twitter account so that people could follow your story.
Now I very much hope that people will sign up and I hope that the embarrassment that your government officials and your medical establishment feel upon having your story spread around the world will cause them to remedy at least your one case right away and then to address the others that surely sound something like yours.
Other people who are deserving of exemptions that they cannot get.
So, your Twitter handle, do you know it?
I do know it, yes.
All right, well, you're ahead of many people.
So it's Bettysarah, so it's spelt B-E-T-T-Y-S-E-R-A, number three.
Bettysarah, number three, on Twitter.
And you said you also are on Instagram?
I am on Instagram, yep, under Betty Sarah as well, so B-E-T-T-Y-S-E-R-A.
Betty Sarah, and I'm about to make an embarrassing admission, at least it will become obvious.
Do you want to remind me how to pronounce your last name?
Sure, it's Pezzamenti.
Betty Pezzamenti.
Betty Sarah Pezzamenti, I'm presuming.
Is that right?
That's correct, yep.
Betty Sarah Pezzamenti, and your business is The Earthly Sweet Spot?
That's correct.
Is that correct?
Well, I hope that your business flourishes.
I hope that your exemption arrives with a gigantic bouquet of flowers and a government-sized apology for all of the nonsense you've been put through.
I am incredibly appreciative of both your grace in facing this authoritarian nonsense and your willingness to share it so that we all can benefit from the ongoing tragedy and absurdity that you're faced with.
Betty, thank you so much for doing it and I really hope good news is just around the corner.
Thank you so much, Breton, for this opportunity.
Yeah, I really hope I could be the voice for many in the world as well.
All right.
Well, good luck to you and good luck to everyone down under.
Thank you.
And likewise.
Be well.
Thanks.
Bye.
All right.
That was great.
It's going to take a little bit of time to edit it.
OK, yeah.
But I'm really I'm happy with how it went.
There are a few things I stumbled over, but that's just the nature of the beast.
And anyway, it's an incredible story.
And I really I meant what I said at the end, I think.
You're quite marvelous and that it takes something to face this kind of bleak, lethal nonsense with a smile on your face and, you know, a hopeful tone in your voice.
So anyway, you're a model for the rest of us and I greatly appreciate it.
Thank you, Brett.
I think I'll just say, like, I think what's driving me, if I don't get too emotional, my father passed away in a Melbourne hospital due to medical negligence.
It was a court battle we only won last year after seven years.
And I think this is what's perpetuate, sorry, perpetuating me forward.
I pray to him every day to give me strength for this.
We had to sign an NDA to say that we could not disclose his court case or tarnish the name of the public health system because of it.
We settled out of court and we won.
During the process, my mum had a heart attack.
We lost our family home.
And we also lost my grandmother.
It's in his name that I will not let it go in vain and I will fight for what's right and especially when it comes to the health and freedoms of others.
Well, I am proud and honored to fight alongside you.
That's a terrible, terrible story and obviously an appalling price to pay for medical negligence and I can't imagine what that must have been like.
I mean, really, what can one even say?
There's no compensation or consolation that one could find after such a loss, and I'm sorry that happened.
Yeah, thank you.
It's, you know, it...
It showed me a lot of what can happen, I guess, and what if a health system or a government want to make you shut up and go away and try and hide things, they can.
