Supplementary Material 30: Decoding Irish Stew, Owl Hate, and Hypothetical Avoidance
Prepare for a hearty mix of culinary tips, avoidance of hypothetical scenarios, and the usual guru grievances. Will Jordan Peterson ever admit he's a Christian? Is it ever truly possible to understand Sam Harris AND still disagree with him? And where does Joe Rogan's primal hate for owls come in? Tune in for at least some of the answers to these pressing questions in this bubbling broth of an episode.Supplementary Material 3000:00 Introduction and Culinary Corner12:29 The Buddhism Book cometh14:09 Joe Rogan on Astrology25:22 Rogan's Christian Conversion?32:18 Rogan on Owls...43:09 Jordan Peterson vs 20 Atheists48:55 Is JBP a Christian?54:34 It depends what you mean by believe...01:00:22 Jordan Peterson vs. hypotheticals01:13:54 Hancock Orbiters continue to be terrible01:19:58 Sam Harris' Business Manager is kinda bad01:26:22 Sam is being misinterpreted again01:35:11 The Fundamentalist Impulse01:38:09 Post-Debate Weinstein Activity01:40:32 Sam Harris is still mad with Ezra Klein01:48:39 OutroThe full episode is available for Patreon subscribers (1hr 49 mins).Join us at: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurusSources- A good Irish Stew recipe- The Buddhism Book!- Joe Rogan Experience #2323 - Guy Fieri- Jubilee: Jordan Peterson vs 20 Atheists | Surrounded- Dan Richards' charming tweet to Flint- Professor Dave: Dan Richards is a Pointless Troll- "More From Sam": Religion, Deportations, Douglas Murray vs. Rogan, & Bill Maher's Dinner with Trump- “More From Sam”: Trump & Israel, Corruption, Free Speech Violations, the Democrats, & Ezra Klein- Sam Harris' Substack: What Whataboutery?- Sam and Ezra's email exchange- Vox: Charles Murray is once again peddling junk science about race and IQ. Podcaster and author Sam Harris is the latest to fall for it.
Hello and welcome to Decoding the Guru's supplementary material.
This is the companion relaxed podcast, the big brother podcast of the actual decodings here.
It's more relaxed, it's more of a chilled out atmosphere.
I'm Chris Gavner, Irish in Japan, Northern Irish, if you like, in Japan.
And he's Matthew Brown, psychologist of...
I have the documents.
I have the documents.
Do they have like a shamrock stamp on them?
Or just like the imprint of a potato rolled over with ink?
Yep, great big stamp with a potato.
Certified Irish.
Oh, that's pretty good.
Well, yeah.
Now we've got another hot steaming plate of supplementary materials.
Fresh.
Off the stove, haven't we?
And you know what else is fresh off the stove, Chris?
Oh, what else?
What else?
You already know because you've been talking to me about it.
The Irish stew.
I'm cooking Irish stew at the moment.
I just finished.
We had to wait.
Chris was very patient.
He said, Matt, Matt, we've got to record the supplementary materials.
I said, no, Chris, I have to finish the Irish stew.
And I said, no problem.
That's fine.
Go.
That's it.
That's all right.
You know, family members die or that kind of thing.
No, we got to record, right?
We got to, but like, you're going to cook Irish stew?
No, I understand.
I understand.
Everything else you don't understand.
Much less tolerant of.
But, you know, I checked it out with you.
I got confirmation from you that all my steps were correct.
And I think, you know, sometimes when we talk about stuff, we're at loggerheads.
Consciousness, for instance.
We get ourselves tied up in little lots.
But I feel like you generally approved of my process.
I did.
Your ingredient suggested that this was S-tier, Irish stew, that you're working on.
You've even located parsnips in Australia, which parsnips are hard to come by in Japan.
I can't use them in my stew because I can never find them.
but parsnips and fresh parsley.
This is pretty good, Matt.
You know, I...
Yeah, parsnips are like one of these old-timey vegetables that has fallen out of favor.
Yeah, I feel like because the flavor is quite clean or earthy, I think that's the way people describe those kind of vegetables.
But because they're actually not used so much, it makes like an interesting flavor because you're like, oh yeah, there's not much parsnip in other dishes these days.
So it adds a certain je ne sais quoi, you know, to the recipe.
I think so.
Yeah.
I think so.
What have I got?
I got like a kilogram of chuck steak.
I browned that.
Nice and browned.
Take it out.
I've got my onions.
I've got my leek.
Crucial.
That's pretty good.
I got my locally sourced garlic.
I mean, I bought it from a store as we were driving home.
That's locally sourced.
Basically, most of my food is locally sourced because I live in a farming area.
So it's all grown down the road.
What else have we got in it?
Carrots.
Carrots, good.
Yeah.
Now, I think you did raise an eyebrow at the Swiss brown mushrooms, didn't you?
I did, yeah.
But it's okay.
I'll lie.
My stream's a little bit fancy, right?
Yeah, so they can probably grow mushrooms.
This is like the landed gentry version of Irish stew, not the bog hopper.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, we are adding some spices as well.
As you pointed out, basil probably not.
I was suspicious.
No.
I'd like to fact check this with other Irish people.
Chris recommended basil.
Basil time!
Puzzle and thyme.
It should be there, yeah.
I do have the fresh thyme.
I do have the fresh parsley.
Bay leaves.
Oh, shit.
I forgot the bay leaves.
No, they're not.
No, it's important.
No, no.
Pause.
Okay, okay.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
I'll pause.
Okay, that was important.
That was worth pausing.
You've wanted that, man.
That's good.
Due to the magic of podcasting.
It just felt like not a second past for the listener.
No, or you're just really fast.
Chris, I just stood here patiently while I went and did that.
Okay, so they're in.
They're in.
Obviously, a great big tin of Guinness, naturally.
Yep, you've got Guinness.
Red wine.
You've got red wine.
Beef stock.
Not just any red wine, but red wine that has been finished in Irish whiskey barrels.
I don't know why you'd want that, but I guess that's okay.
Yeah, that's adding up like 10% extra Irishness.
That wine finished in whiskey barrels.
Irish whiskey barrels, not just normal.
No, Irish whiskey barrels.
I'm actually drinking a little bit of it now, and I'm not getting much.
Irish whiskey barrel.
I trust them.
Obviously potatoes.
Good.
Yep.
You gotta have those in.
They're the number one crucial ingredient next to the meat.
Yep.
Carrots.
Anything I'm forgetting?
Anything else?
I think that's most of the ingredients that I I am putting cabbage in as well.
That's right.
I don't know if you should do that, but that's okay.
And you've got bread, you know, kind of weedy style bread on the side.
That's good.
I also, I give Matt my secret tip for making very nice roast potatoes.
Now, obviously, roast potatoes with our stew might be a bit of overkill.
Just, you know, our listeners, Matt, since we're on this little segment, this is Food Corner, and I will say, you want to make good roast potatoes, you parboil the potatoes, right?
15 minutes, put them in half water, salt, and then you put them in the colander, is that what you call that thing?
Like a sieve, right?
And you shape them around, you rough.
Everyone knows that, but not everyone knows.
Sprinkle some cornstarch on top of those before you...
Add rosemary as well.
Bingo bangle.
Lovely potatoes.
So look at that.
My, you're, you are, Your recipe alone suggests that you're an honorary Irish person, even if you didn't have a biological legacy.
Yeah, that's right.
But I do.
I know.
That's to be clear.
You do.
Just to be clear.
I do.
And let nobody else say otherwise, okay?
Now, I have got a couple of secret ingredients.
A couple of special things.
I don't know if you're going to agree with this.
It might be too much flavor that you people are used to.
Oh, tomato paste.
We forgot to say tomato paste.
You should have tomato paste.
That's important.
I actually forgot to put the tomato paste in.
Shit!
Okay, we have to pause it again.
A good thing that we talked about this, Matt.
Otherwise, you know, this wouldn't have turned out as well.
I would have been really upset.
I hate it when I forget to put things in.
I actually couldn't find any tomato paste in a hurry.
I put in some tinned tomatoes, crushed tomatoes.
That's probably all right.
I had half a tin left over.
It's okay, isn't it?
I don't like tomatoes, as you know, in general, Matt, but I'll deal with them in Irish juice.
So however you get your tomato sauce, I don't care.
You gotta put it in.
You gotta have some part of tomato in there.
That's it.
That's the deal with the devil for our stew.
You can't taste the tomato.
Now, this is the controversial bit.
Worcestershire sauce, Chris.
Is this the same thing as Worcestershire sauce?
I don't know.
Maybe?
Okay, because if so, this is something that I add.
So it's okay.
But it's only like a spoonful.
A spoonful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just a dash.
It's just a dash.
I've actually got access to this really, really good Worcestershire sauce.
Again, locally made.
A velvety, sweet, spicy sauce with a touch of warmth.
It is a hundred times better than the normal stuff you get in the supermarket.
It's called Well Loved Worcestershire Sauce, WWS.
If you can get your hands on it, I recommend it.
It's so much better.
And, okay, so you're fine with that.
I'm fine with that.
I'm done with that.
All right.
The other thing.
Uh-huh.
And this puts my stamp on it, right?
This is like a dog doing a wee on a tree.
Lovely imagery for you, Stu, yes.
A spoonful of Vegemite, Chris.
The Australian connection.
No, no.
Victor, Victor, your Irish honorary citizenship has been revoked.
That's not allowed.
You Australians and your Vegemite.
Yeah, that's terrible.
That's like English people put in Marmite.
And why would they do that, Matt?
It's good.
It's good.
You don't understand.
It's like how it's chili con carne.
You know, you put a little bit of dark chocolate in there.
You can't taste it.
You don't know it's there.
But subconsciously, subliminally, it's permeating the back of your brain and titillating it.
Well, we'll see.
We'll see.
This might be a little bit like the Guinness, though.
I think the Guinness does flavor thing because there's quite a fair bit in it.
But, like, if it's not there, would you notice?
Because a lot of it evaporates, you know, and the thing.
I don't know.
But, you know, I will say that this is a better cooking corner than...
These are actually useful.
I might put up for the Patreon people my Irish Jew recipe.
Or you can put up yours.
We can have dueling.
Well, our recipes are very similar to those.
One has Vegemite in it.
That's pretty much the difference.
Yeah, that's it.
That is like the optional extra.
Not everything has to be a competition, Matt.
Collaborate in peace sometimes.
We can.
We can.
You know, some people might, they might say, is 10 minutes on our issue too much?
Is that too much time?
Is that an indulgence?
And I say, this is supplementary materials, bitch.
We're allowed to do what we want to do here.
That's the deal.
That was the bargain, okay?
On the decoding, you know, we're regimented.
We don't talk that much.
The intro segments are basically gone here.
We're free.
We can let our freak flag flow.
Fly.
Yes.
Fly.
Fly or flow.
That's just how freaky I am, man.
I use the wrong verbs.
Yeah, well, we can maybe do another spin-off thing.
We'll do the Cooking Corner.
We'll just do recipes, do cooking.
I think it'll be a lot more contributions from you than me if we do that.
But, yeah.
That could be the gimmick.
That could be our gimmick.
There was a show here in Australia called The Cook and the Chef.
And the gimmick was that one of them was cook.
Very good home cook.
But the other one was like a professional chef and they do things differently and it's all very cool.
And our shtick could be like each week I cook something different and exotic and interesting with all kinds of different spices and flavors and you cook Irish stew the same way every week.
With different types of potatoes.
Yeah, that would be a good gimmick.
How long would that last?
You know, I will say my...
You know, the Buddhism book one, as I announced last time, Patreon people have been reading it, including Bad Stats, Dan Gilbert, he started.
And he was the same as you, saying, oh, this is a big, long book on Buddhist history.
Oh, I don't want to read this, blah, blah, blah.
And then he read a bit of it, and he said, my God, how little I knew about Buddhism.
Really ashamed at my lack of knowledge.
And it's receiving rave reviews from the Patreon.
So I'm looking forward to it.
That's all I want to say.
I've listened to about half of it now.
And it's great.
Good job.
My suggestion.
Very good.
I may make a start on it today.
Oh, that's good.
That's good.
The first chapter is the longest, but after you get through that, it's a breeze.
It's a breeze.
Okay, well, it can't be worse than COD.
That's for sure.
That's also commented when we released the thing on the Sean Carroll, Eric Weinstein debate.
He said, I can't believe you guys stooped so low as to cover this drama.
Yeah, I know.
Thanks, Dan.
Funny little guy, Dan.
So, yes.
A good follow on Twitter.
Somebody who's always providing the clips.
We might even have one of two clips taken from him today to play.
So why don't we get into it, Matt?
Why don't we get into it?
Let's take us through it, Chris.
Take us through it.
What's been going on?
What other dramas?
Well, well.
So, have you heard about this guy, Joe Rogan?
Ever heard about him?
He's got a podcast, hasn't he?
He's got a little thing.
Just a casual thing.
Just a guy.
He's just a comedian, Matt.
He's just a normal guy.
He doesn't have any biases.
He just shoots the shit.
He's a moron.
He's got an open mind and he's just eager to learn.
That's the thing.
Yeah.
So he talks about lots of different topics.
And I thought it might be good just to play a couple of recent clips where he's talking about different things.
So we can get more insight into how Joe's mind works and his standards of evidence and whatnot.
So first up, here's a clip of him discussing astrology.
Joe Rogan on astrology.
What does he think about astrology?
I think the newspaper version of the horoscope is obviously nonsense.
At least partially.
I shouldn't even say obviously.
But I think – when they're in alignment have on the universe and I think it's partially but look
The gravity of the moon affects the water.
It makes the tide go in and out to the point where there's a high tide and a low tide mark at the beach.
This is why I'm rehydrating now.
Because I realize I'm mainly water.
Mainly water.
So if we're mainly water, how is that not affecting us?
Is it?
Is it affecting us in some weird way that we don't totally understand?
But the idea that a constellation 100 million light-years away could be affecting us seems a bit of a stretch.
I don't think that's what the idea is.
The idea is that there is an infinite number of possibilities in terms of personalities and character traits, and there's an infinite number of factors.
There's genetic factors, there's environmental factors, there's all these different factors.
There might be cosmic factors.
I don't think it's the primary source of your personality or how you feel about the world.
But I think it might be a factor.
And I think it was probably much more of a factor when they didn't have light pollution.
Uh-huh.
It was a lot to unpack there.
Yeah.
It was more of a factor when there wasn't light pollution.
So when there wasn't so much unnatural light.
You know, interfering with our view of the stars, then the stars had more of an effect on our personalities.
That seems to be the claim.
And, you know, Joe said, yeah, the horoscope version, that's obviously bullshit.
But he proceeded to regurgitate it.
Well, just to point out, he said mostly bullshit.
Yeah, it's mostly.
He shouldn't say obviously.
So amend it with that.
he says the horoscope version is mostly bullshit.
Yeah, but he also then proceeded to give most of the reasons that people who believe in the newspaper version of horoscopes give for what's Our body is mostly made of water.
The moon affects the tides, right?
So it's not like things in space don't have effects on, you know, the Earth.
We know that they do not.
So why wouldn't a constellation millions and millions of light years away have a similar kind of effect to the moon?
Like, who can say?
Can scientists say?
Can they say anything about that?
Well, the moon is definitely having an effect on our personalities.
I mean, that bit.
That's science.
That's science.
But Chris, when his interlocutor there, I know he's an English comedian, I forget his name.
Jimmy Carr.
Jimmy Carr.
He pushes back extremely politely because you have to when you're on the Joe Rogan podcast.
You don't flat out disagree with Joe.
He says, isn't it a bit of a stretch that these remote constellations could be having an effect on our personalities?
And then Joe talks about all the factors.
There's lots of factors.
Genetic factors, social factors, whatever.
And that sort of segued into an explanation for why the distant constellations are affecting us.
Did you?
I didn't quite track the logic there.
Did you?
I know you've got the transcript in front of you.
The logic.
So let me see.
The idea is that there's an infinite number of possibilities in terms of personalities and character traits.
And there's an infinite number of factors.
There's genetic factors.
We all agree on those.
There's environmental factors.
We all agree on those.
There's different factors that might be cosmic factors.
He doesn't think it's the primary source of your personality, but it might be a factor.
It might be a factor.
I get it.
That was the explanation.
On one hand, it might seem implausible that constellations light years away from us are affecting our personalities, but you have to remember there's an infinite number of factors.
So maybe the constellations are one of those factors.
Makes sense?
Yes.
Yes, that's it.
So, you know, Joe just keeps his mind open about these kind of things.
So it really is impressive because like, I really do think that the people who might have made fun about like Gwyneth Paltrow or Oprah Winfrey poking fun at women who are paying attention to horoscopes, but like, Joe is...
I feel like people should recognize that.
I mean, I think that a lot of people do recognize that.
But yeah, in any case, Matt, that was Joe on astrology.
Well, before we move on, I think it's worth connecting this to a little bit of the general takeaway for people, which is that this, what Joe's doing there, especially at the beginning, was the appeal to antiquity fallacy.
There's a fallacy of assuming that because something...
It's been around for a while.
People have been doing it for a long time.
Then it's got to be better or more correct or more valuable.
There must be something in it.
And that's not true.
And it manifests itself in a few different ways.
So you've got the appeals to tradition.
Practices are correct because they're traditional.
People have always done it this way.
Something that conservatives tend to go for.
The noble savage fallacy.
Romanticizing ancient peoples, non-modern peoples as having superior wisdom or living more authentically.
I would say that people on the progressive edge of the spectrum can fall for that one as well.
But what Joe was doing there was, I think, falling under the subcategory of the ancient wisdom bias.
Oh no, no, no, no, Matt.
Joe's too smart for that.
He would never fall to ancient wisdom, fallacy type things, appeals to tradition.
That sounds like Joe.
Speaking of which, I do have just one more clip.
So that was him on astrology.
You know, he's opened the things, Matt.
He doesn't want to dismiss things too quickly.
Let's hear Joe and his guest discuss the Big Bang.
Well, space is the ultimate.
Who the fuck knows?
Because we can only see so far.
We see so far.
But even so far is only so far.
Well, and then they're saying, like, it's always expanding.
That can't be true.
because what is it expanding into?
If space is space, you know, if they're like, "Oh, it's like blowing up a balloon where everything's...
Right.
So what's the room that you're blowing the balloon into?
And then that's in a bigger room.
Right.
And then there's the concept that it's actually finite.
It's not infinite.
It's some sort of donut shape.
It goes back around eventually.
But then who made all that?
Is there a God?
Did God make this?
Or is God the universe?
Yeah, but then who made God?
And then that bothers me.
Who made that thing?
Is that a thing that we think that because we were born and we die, that we have these biological limitations that we attach to the universe itself?
That's a very – yeah, that's fair.
Yeah, that we just – we see things as being built and destroyed.
That there's always been something.
Wouldn't it be crazy if there wasn't something at one point in time?
That seems even crazier than there always has been something because if it's just something – if it's just the nature of everything, there is always something, right?
It couldn't be nothing and then all of a sudden everything.
Because what started that?
What kicked that off?
Exactly.
What snapped its fingers?
That's McKenna's great line.
Terrence McKenna had a great line about the difference between science and religion is that science only asks you for one miracle.
I want you to believe in one miracle, the Big Bang.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a good one.
It's a great line.
It's because it really is true.
And it's funny because people would be incredulous about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, but yet they're convinced that the entire universe was smaller than the head of a pen and for no reason than anybody's adequately explained to me.
Makes sense.
Yeah, no.
It instantaneously became everything?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
I can't buy that.
I'm sticking with Jesus on that one.
Jesus makes more sense.
Wow.
Quite a journey.
Quite a journey.
That was a journey.
I'm just imagining any physicist listening are just beating their heads.
Slomming their heads into the video.
Stop it!
Stop it!
The universe is expanding.
It's got to be expanding into something, right?
We won't.
Litigate that in detail, but actually it can be.
But the other thing too is that Joe got the quote, so he remembered the quote, which is a pretty good quote, right?
I mean, I don't know if we mangled it, but the general sentiment is that, uh, what, you know, science asks you to believe in one miracle, religion asks you to believe in lots of them.
Uh, so I, you know, I, I think that's not a bad quote as far as it goes because the beginning of the universe is somewhat mysterious, even for hard-earned materialists like us, but, uh,
But then Joe, so he quoted that, but then he straight away, like he seemed to read it the wrong way, which is the implication for him was that Christianity asks you to believe that Jesus could do miracles from the dead.
So that's more plausible than the other.
And that's the exact opposite.
Well, this dovetails, just to say, Matt, that also recently there's been reports that Rogan has converted to Christianity, right?
I think he's supposed to be attending churches.
And these reports, by the way, are second hand.
So I would kind of anticipate that Rogan will soon come out and say, oh, this has been overblown.
I'm not, because this is what he does whenever there's a conversation But here's the reason.
This is the actual account where people are getting this from.
This is a Christian apologist who appeared on his show called Wes Huff.
And he was talking to another podcast and he said this.
Yes, Joe Rogan and I have had on and off communication since then.
I can tell you for a fact that he is attending a church and that that has been a consistent thing.
And so, you know, things are happening and he's a very inquisitive individual.
And I think for the better in that he's communicating with me and other people in his life who are influences that can speak into.
You know, these issues of reliability and trustworthiness and verisimilitude of something like the pages of scripture and where he should and shouldn't be looking for the information in regards to that.
So I am very encouraged by the communication that I have been able to have with him and others over these last few months in this kind of crazy season that I find myself in.
But we're seeing what I don't think is a, Even the nitty-gritty.
We had someone who reached out to us recently at Apologetics Canada, who is probably the last bricks-and-mortar Christian bookstore that I've ever heard of.
But they said, we have people walking through our doors asking, young people, teenagers, saying, I want a Bible.
all my friends are reading this thing.
So if the Bible is, you know, becoming popular with teenagers, then something is happening and the Lord...
It's so hot.
Yeah, a lot of things are making a comeback, Chris.
So, like, I might have been skeptical about that, but stranger things are happening these days.
Yeah.
Well, you know, the interesting thing for me is...
So one, as I say, this is a second-hand report, right, of Joe Rogan's purported conversion process and whatnot.
But it would make sense because he's being...
He's, you know, had on Christian apologists and whatnot.
And he always has had a kind of seeker vibe to him, right?
It's just that before it was like a seeker vibe that was orientated towards conspiracies and shiemens and, you know, DMT and whatnot.
But now I like a lot of that sense-making sphere and the new right.
There is a kind of trad, calf.
Trad, religion, Christian exceptionalism stuff.
The kind of thing that you find with Jordan Peterson and Russell Brand and so on going on, right?
So this would be absolutely in line with what you would expect if Joe Rogan did turn out to become a Christian convert.
And that would make his Big Bang discussion a little bit more on the nose.
Well, it would explain it a bit better.
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
People with these sorts of beliefs, they tend to come full circle eventually.
You know what I mean?
They might spend some years, maybe their 20s, being like this, but the terminus can often be something God.
Who was that famous 70s singer who converted to Islam?
Cat Stevens, I think?
I don't know.
Anyway, it's a trend.
On the face of it, it might seem surprising correlations between people who believe some things and people who believe completely I mean, on the face of it, you might go, well, it's a crazy conspiratorial thing.
And it is.
There's a few of them who are just pure conspiracists.
But when you look into that, you find out that a very large number of them are young Earth creationists.
And there is a reason for that, of course, which is that this sort of tiny little snow globe.
The miniaturized, personalized cosmology of the flat Earth is one that is much more comfortable for hardcore Christians and it allows them to sort of dismiss all of those troubling things about the Big Bang and constellations light years away and so on.
There also are these fads and things, right?
Because reading this Buddhism book and it's talking about the expansion of Buddhism into the West and whatnot.
It does remind you that, you know, about 20 or 30 years ago, there was something of, like, a Buddhist boom in Hollywood and among celebrities.
And Tibetan Buddhism was very hot, right?
There were various concerts and whatnot with bands.
Richard Gere.
many, many people.
And like Russell Brand, somebody with, you know, various tattoos from all sorts of different traditions who now has like swerved into traditionalism.
But, like, so there are broader sweeps and, I don't know, weaves to these kind of things.
Yeah, well, and that is one of the reasons why I have a big issue with that kind of crunchy, flaky, fluffy thinking generally, which is you might go, well, what's the harm?
Yeah, some people are religious.
What's the issue, right?
Yeah, but I'm not speaking about religion even specifically.
You might say, oh, people believe in tantric, something, putting needles, some complementary alternative therapies, homeopathy, for instance, or what have you.
Or some little conspiracy theory thing that is, you know, it doesn't have bad vibes.
It seems to be harmless.
The issue is that like the old woodcut or painting shows, is this Goya?
Anyway, I can't remember who did it.
You know, the flight of reason, or the sleep of reason rather, produces demons because it's so easy to segue between one fluffy, crunchy, strange thing that isn't grounded in reality to another.
And, you know, you see someone like Joe Rogan tracing that path and some of it might be innocuous, but it is all indicative.
Of the same mental problems, I think.
And often just doesn't lead to very healthy blazes.
Yeah, and I mean, in all these clips with Rogan, you kind of just see consistently his inability to critically evaluate things.
Like, whatever topic it may be, it's almost all based on, like, vibes and stuff that he's come across online on X or whatever.
And there was a humorous exchange.
I know that you won't have seen this because I know you.
Stay out of these kind of waters.
But do you know who Guy Ferreri is?
This is the last of the roadie clips, but I think it's a good one.
I do not.
I do not.
Guy Ferreri is an American chef.
He has, like, bleach blonde hair with black roots, and he was famous for, like, kind of unhealthy food that he enjoyed.
And he wore flame t-shirts and this kind of thing, right?
He was like a figure in the early 2000s and whatnot.
He went on roadie.
He was actually in a very enthusiastic mood, you know, endorsing cold blunches.
And you'll hear him attempt to do that, the appeal to Rogan.
And he told his story about his dad.
His dad has died.
He's passed over.
And, you know, he's been in contact with a medium, though, and so on.
So I'm going to play the first part of the story before you get Rogan's reaction.
It might not go the way that you think that.
So anyway, here's Guy Freire talking to Joe Rogan about his dead dad.
The other day, maybe six months ago, I was sitting in a hot tub.
I had my routine of hot sauna, cold plunge, hot tub, infrared.
I do all that.
But I'm sitting there, and I keep getting this thing.
I gotta call this medium lady.
And I texted her, and I said, "Hey, can I come see you?" And she goes, "Yeah." She goes, "You, uh, your dad's been...
Your dad wants to talk to you.
Your dead dad?
My dead dad.
has been hitting her up to get in touch with me, to make...
She knows my dad, yeah.
She knew my dad's dead.
But the point was, and there was more intricacies about it, but she said, yeah, he's been talking about it.
She goes, were you just in Mexico?
I said, yeah.
Did you do something about him in Mexico?
Something about an owl?
There's no way in a million years she would know this.
An owl?
Yeah, my dad comes back as an owl.
That's what he said he was going to be, as an owl.
This is what he was saying to her?
To me.
To you?
Yeah, this is before he died.
Before he died, he said, I'm going to come back as an owl?
Owl was the thing.
Wise guy.
Okay, did you follow that, Matt?
You're on board with the story so far?
Joe Hogan's a little bit confused.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So he called up his medium, as you do, because he wanted to go see it.
And he said, good, because I've been having a chat with your dead dad.
Yeah.
But I think his dad, before he died, said, what about being an owl?
It's going to come back as an owl.
And the medium mentioned something about being in Mexico, doing something related to an owl.
And how would she know that, Matt?
There's no way.
I'm sure Guy Ferreri's never mentioned anything about these kind of beliefs before.
It's all new information.
There's no other way that mediums can find out things about what people are doing.
Like, I'm sure he didn't post about it anywhere.
Nothing like that.
It's all mystical things.
And now, Joe is usually on board with mystical stuff, right?
But you've heard his responses.
He's a little bit confused by what's going on.
He doesn't sound super engaged by this.
And another thing that you have to countenance about Joe, Matt, is that he's quite myopic.
Like, what he wants to talk about or the way that he interprets things, that's kind of what he wants to focus on, right?
So, like, if you go on the show, unless you're a big person like Dave Chappelle or Bill Burr or whatever, you're probably going to end up talking about what Joe wants to talk about, which will often be, like, COVID vaccines and left-wing politics, right?
But anyway, here's the second part of this, the end of that story.
So, you heard Joe, you know, a bit bemused.
He's coming back as an owl.
Now, here we go, the second part.
Okay.
Owls are dumb as shit.
I don't know.
Isn't that crazy?
I don't know.
I've never seen it.
They're smarter than me.
They scared the shit out of me.
No, they're really dumb birds.
That's great.
That's what my dad would talk about.
No, I'm not saying your dad's dumb.
I'm just saying it's weird that we all have this idea of owls being wise.
I talked to this lady who trains birds.
She says they're the dumb ones?
They're the dumbest birds.
It's like the only thing dumber than them is emus.
It's like emus are dumb as shit.
I just saw emus on a ranch yesterday.
She's like, we have this idea that owls are really smart.
Well, whatever the case is.
I hung up a stained glass owl where my dad used to sit in our house in Mexico.
There's no way.
So, I don't know.
I'm not cheating or preaching.
There's something bigger going on there.
Have you ever heard of the telepathy tapes?
People are looking at me going, guys, guys, fucking crazy.
But it's, it really is my...
Have you ever heard of the telepathy tapes?
No.
The telepathy tapes are...
Because I didn't really follow.
Well, the telepathy tapes are this kind of podcast series where there's a woman that claims that autistic children that are very low-functioning, but they're actually psychic and they're communicating through facility.
Communication.
And it was this whole thing.
So Joe Rogan is all into that.
So he went there at the very end.
But before that, he mainly wanted to share his bird facts.
So I was really stupid and maybe only surpassed the stupidity by emus.
Leave the emus out of this.
Come on.
Or as he said, emus.
Emus.
Emus.
Yeah.
So his guest there, what was the nature of his spooky experience with the owls?
Because I know that his dad told him he was going to come back.
Oh, it was just that the medium knew that he hung up something in the shape of an owl in Mexico, where his dad used to be.
Right.
Wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
So he obviously brought this story because, you know, he knows Joe is interested in, you know, these kind of occult.
But Joe got distracted by the stupidity of ours.
Yeah.
And it is funny because, you know, he's like, he said, you know, my dad, yeah, you know, he's coming back as an all because all his wives and just like, all his stupid shit.
I know.
It's not very empathetic.
The guy's, you know.
In his story, the owls are important.
They're wise.
They're messages.
Yeah, then you heard him have to say, yeah, so we hug up the owl after Joe.
But, you know, so I thought it was a funny exchange.
But again, what's going to happen there, Matt, is they're going to go on and Joe Rogan's going to go on a big extended ref about this podcast about psychic, autistic children, right?
And how it's all been proven and whatnot.
So like, he wasn't really biting on the medium oil story, but...
So if it's into the aliens or whatever, that's fine.
But he doesn't like Isles.
He sounds very mercurial.
Yeah, he's mercurial.
That's right.
You don't know what the great Khan is going to like.
He was offered this little thing that was specifically designed for his pleasure and he swept it aside.
Yeah, you didn't realize he's against Isles.
Yeah.
Actually, you reminded me.
I've mentioned it before, Chris, but I actually think we should cover it.
Mike Clelland, he wrote a book called The Messages, Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO, Abductee.
And he's collected a wealth of first-hand accounts in which owls manifest in highly charged moments that surround alien contact.
Shamanistic experiences, personal transformation, ancient archetypes.
Profound synchronicities and deaths.
So I've listened to a couple of lectures from Mike Cleland and it is a tour de force.
He actually seems like a nice guy.
You know what I mean?
But just deeply, deeply deluded.
And yeah, it's just fascinating stuff.
Well, this is, you know, like that's the thing.
If you packaged it right, like if you connected the oils in with aliens and whatnot, like Joe might be.
And we've heard this constantly in Joe Rogan's things that he picks up these little factoids and then he just regurgitates them.
So it can be about the Democrats starting the fires in California or whatever.
It can be George Soros.
But his hyper-skepticism comes up in Any occasion where, like, it's Elon Musk or Donald Trump, or in this occasion, particularly Arles.
He's just like, he's never gathered this year with Arles.
We'll never borrow it.
No way.
No way.
There's dumb as shit.
There's no way they're involved in some mystical thing.
So, well, that was Rogan.
That's just a reminder of what goes on in the Rogan sphere.
And actually, those conversations, like, collectively.
I just think they're a very good illustration of, you know, how much stock you should put in the opinions of Jorgen.
The level of research and logical insight that, you know, critical thinking that he's applying across all of those, that is the same that he applies to politics, that is the same that he applies to vaccines and so on.
So he uses the deflection of I'm just a dumb moron talking nonsense as a deflection, right?
Because he clearly doesn't believe that from other stuff that we've seen when he's talking about vaccines.
But he is.
That's the word.
He is absolutely that.
And he's no more kind of well-informed than Gwyneth Paltrow.
He is a male version of that whole approach to things.
So the fact that he references scientific words on occasion or whatever, it should no more lead people to believe that he's actually interested in scientific topics than it does when somebody promoting astrology mentions a constellation.
Yeah, I'd like to think most people know that at this point, Chris.
You'd like to think.
Yeah.
You would hope so.
You would hope so.
Well, let's see.
Now I'm up.
The second course for today.
Yes, we've had first course.
What about second course?
Jordan Peterson, ill-advisedly, went on this show called Jubilee.
The format is: there's one person sitting in the middle, and there are 20 people arranged in a circle around them, and they're like people that will disagree over an issue.
It can be like Destiny vs MAGA fans, or Sam Cedar vs MAGA fans.
In this case, it was billed as one Christian versus 20 atheists, but the Christian that they chose was Jordan Peterson, which we'll see.
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