Supplementary Material 20: Stolen Valour, Based Murder, and Eric Weinstein's Phonecall Problems
In this end-of-year supplementary material, we unleash the hounds of war, battle through the discourse, and emerge alive but bloody and battered on the other side. Enlist now and join the fight.Supplementary Material 2000:00 Introduction and Ethnographic Insights01:38 Matt's Observations from Washington DC05:50 Smithsonian Museums and Star Wars Memorabilia07:48 Lego Creations and Gacha Collectibles12:13 Social Media and Blue Sky 'Culture'13:29 Matt's Contribution: Eric Weinstein's UFO Speculations21:21 Graham Linehan, Andrew Doyle, Jordan Peterson & Recognising Past Errors23:18 Jordan Peterson's Reflections on Vaccination28:59 Huberman's Upcoming Vaccine Series30:52 Taylor Lorenz and Stochastic Terrorism32:31 The Hypocrisy of Glorifying Violence36:29 The Problem with Political Violence43:48 Tim Kennedy's Exaggerated Military Stories55:09 Tim Kennedy's Response to Criticism01:07:37 Prebunking Criticisms01:17:20 Shane Smith at Vice is NOT A CONSPIRACY GUY01:21:27 Final Thoughts on Populism and Vibes-Based Reasoning01:25:18 OutroThe full episode is available for Patreon subscribers (1hr 26 mins).Join us at: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurusSources Jordan Peterson: Europe Imploding | Andrew Doyle & Graham Linehan | EP 506Tim Kennedy: Setting the Record StraightPiers Morgan Uncensored: “Why The F*CK Are You Laughing?!” CEO Murder Arrest & Daniel Penny NOT GUILTYThe AntiHero Podcast: Ep 101: Tim Kennedy: The Book Of LiesValhalla VFT: Green Berets, Delta Force & Navy SEAL DENOUNCE Tim Kennedy Stolen Valor LIES
Hello and welcome to Decoding the Guru's supplementary material.
That is with me, the anthropologist from Northern Ireland, Chris Kavanagh.
With him, the psychologist from Australia, world-renowned psychologist of addiction, of conspiracy communities, of all shebang statistics, that is Matthew Brown.
But he's not in Australia.
As we know, he's touring around the U.S. He's engaged in ethnography.
He's gathering observations.
And he promised me that he has fresh insights that he's delivering about America.
He's even sent me images that I have yet to open.
So, Ma, do you want the tea up?
The lights await me when I look into my messages, or should I just go in and look now?
Is there any framing I need?
Well, you've probably built this up too much.
I'm not sure if I've got any great sociological, anthropological insights.
You know, Southerners are nice.
You know, all the stereotypes are true, basically, about Americans in different regions.
I'm in Washington, D.C., the nation's capital.
I've been wandering around.
I've been looking at all of the monumental...
I went to the Abraham Lincoln Memorial, you know, the big guys sitting on a great big chair.
And I enjoyed reading.
Did you stare him down because of what he did to America?
He blinked.
He blinked first.
No, no, I read the Gettysburg Address, which is there on the wall.
And then I think there's another speech on the other wall.
I'm not sure where that's from.
And both very good speeches, both very good speeches, fine sentiments.
It's just hard to believe that he occupied the same position that is now occupied shortly by Donald Trump.
The setup for the inauguration was already happening.
Quite the contrast.
That's progress, Matt.
You know, Steven Pinker's face is that the overall things are getting better.
A good indication of that is the development from...
You know, these figures from the past, these presidents that have reputations that transcend the ages.
And Donald Trump, who I suspect will also have a reputation that transcends the ages in a certain way.
So, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, before anyone gets too depressed, remember, you know, America's had some pretty bad presidents before.
They haven't all been...
Abraham Lincoln?
No, a lot of bad ones along the way.
And the Union survived.
So, chin up.
It'll be fine, hopefully.
But, yeah, no, Washington, D.C. is a nice town, Chris.
Like, it's a little bit...
I've never been to Paris, but it looks like how I imagined Paris to look.
Yes, exactly like Paris.
I think it's the same.
That's what people often say.
Washington, D.C. and Paris, basically the same.
That's right.
And the fact that I've never been to Paris just makes my edgy comparison all the more authentic.
I've been to both of them, and I can say, yeah, yeah, that's spot on.
No difference.
Maybe slightly better baguettes in Paris.
I just met the...
There is some high-rises outside of town a bit, but in the main part of town, it's all pretty mid-rise.
You know, mid-rise and...
A lot of the buildings look very European, you know, because they're built with that in mind.
And all the embassies and stuff look kind of European.
It's just got that.
I actually...
I went to a conference that was in Washington, D.C. Isn't that what it's called?
Like the place where the White House and the National Monument and all that?
That's Washington, D.C., isn't it?
Yes, yes it is.
Okay, right.
So I...
I went to conference there, and I wanted to go and see, you know, the landmarks that are there.
And I found that whole area, like, quite impressive in the vistas and stuff that are available.
It might have been just the autumn season when I was there, but there was a lot of nice parks and whatnot.
And I went for a bander.
I walked from the conference center down through the town, and this seemed like a city where you could walk places, which is rare in America.
And I ended up, though, that I didn't have any signal on my phone because I didn't have a SIM card.
And I wasn't staying in the comfort center.
I was staying in, like, an Airbnb that was quite far out.
And I ended up walking, I think, 35,000 steps that day because, like, I just couldn't get back.
And then I was out of...
Wi-Fi things.
And I desperately wanted to get like an Uber at the end to get back.
And I eventually did, but I had to walk through.
It was some holiday or something that like places were closed and I couldn't get the thing.
So I walked the length and breadth of Washington, D.C. and soared in all its glory.
And they're squirrels.
They're squirrels.
The squirrels all over the United States, Chris.
You've ran out of interest in squirrels now.
I still like them.
They're not specific to Washington, D.C. As I'm sure our American listeners will agree.
Very interesting stuff there.
But the thing that I saw in the American History Museum that would be more appealing to a man of your calibre...
Your tastes.
You can look down at your phone and tell me what you see.
Look up at my messages.
Oh God, why did you send it?
No, no.
Okay, I see C-3PO and R2-D2 beside some video playing.
Okay, so there's Star Wars guys.
So those are the original suits from Return of the Jedi 1981.
C-3PO and RTD2.
I thought that would appeal to you.
You like that?
It's a bit underwhelming in a respect.
You know, it's not like the Mona Lisa where there's crowds gathered around.
It's just like somebody stuck it in the corner.
But maybe you just arrived at a particularly unpopular time.
And then your next image, Ma, is a series of colorful boxes.
Yeah, just treat this as like a mental exercise for you, Chris.
Can you identify what that is that I sent you?
Paint a picture with words to our viewers.
Tupperware arranged in a kind of stack with various seeds and leaves inside it.
And it seems to be the thing that it is all stacked in is made out of Lego, a rainbow.
Lego kind of design.
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
So, you know, your thing is those gacha that we can see behind us.
For visual observers of the audio podcast, they can see I have a little collection of figures from gachas behind me on my ledge.
Yes.
Yeah.
Which is, you know, a cute little hobby you have.
This is what my wife's working on at the moment.
She makes things out of Lego.
She makes lots of stuff out of Lego because we bought so much Lego.
For our kids.
And now the kids don't seem to want to play with it so much.
And my wife just likes to relax.
But instead of playing stupid games on her iPhone, like I do, she makes things out of Lego.
But she makes things just for fun.
But she's made, like, lampshades.
She's made a...
Like a coffee filter caddy, like a thing for holding those coffee filters.
And this, what you're looking at, this masterpiece is a spice rack made out of Lego.
Because I cook a lot of Indian food, as you know, Chris.
I'm a bit of a chef and she's made me...
A great big spice rack out of Lego to put all my spices in.
This is what she's up to while you're away.
Well, she's not up to mischief.
This is good.
Just some normal adult activities.
Yeah.
Well, and also I feel the need to defend myself just before we get on to the business of Guru Decoding because when people initially come to Japan...
They're quite into gachas.
They find these, you know, very interesting because there's a lot of weird stuff that you get in gachas.
And a lot of it is around, like, Japanese cultural products, you know, Pokemon or Ampaman or Utturaman or various things, right?
But over time, you become desensitized to them because you see them all the time.
And if you pick up the things from them, your house will quickly fill up with, like, random plastic tat.
Right?
So, this is one of the differences between short-term or holiday visiting people and people that are in Japan longer term, the loss of interest in gacha.
But I would just like to point out, I've developed another, like a kind of more refined, I'm like the Kurdish Yarvin of gacha appreciators because, and I know that this is designed as part of it, these are like the machines where you put in You know, like the equivalent of one or two dollars,
and you get a random selection of one of six different items, right?
And you cannot select.
So that's the random lottery aspect of it.
There's so many of them in Japan, and they're such a thing that they've become hyper-specific.
And this is part of their appeal.
So they're like, we'll be a gacha for foldable chairs.
And there are six different small plastic foldable chairs that you can get, or like lenses.
For a particular camcorder from the 90s, right?
That's how specific we get.
And to illustrate, I saw a catcher machine that made me excited because it had six different types of like tissue boxes of a Japanese brand of tissues.
And there's one that I often buy, which is like six colored ones stacked on top of each other.
And I was like, oh, what if I get that?
And I paid it and I got it.
So just to show the people with the visual thing.
There, look.
See?
A little stack of, like, toy tissue box stack.
And in a, like, meta move, I also got a gacha box machine that was, like, selling miniature gacha boxes.
So it's like it's got, you know, a little gacha there.
So I feel this is, you know, I'm going for the more...
Esoteric thing.
I'm not into European stream gachas.
I like the obscure stuff.
Yeah, that's true.
I like the gacha that was dispensed.
The gacha dispensing a gacha.
You told me it's got gacha in it.
It does, yeah.
What would be really cool is if it had...
Yeah, but you'd have to be doing quantum-level engineering at that point.
But yes, that would be cool.
So, you know, that's what we've been up to, Matt.
That's what we've been doing.
Now, on these supplementary material, we're allowed to talk about these things.
This is part of the deal that we've made with our listeners, that we will allow ourselves this indulgence so that the coding episodes are more focused.
So don't complain.
That's all I'm saying.
This is the deal that we have made.
And yes, we do have gurus to talk about today.
Yes, we do have silly things.
We do.
We have some items.
I don't have as many items as you, Chris, because another bit of personal news is that I migrated over to Blue Sky because I totally got fed up with Elon Musk.
And, you know, Twitter slash X is accessible.
But, you know, if you make a firewall and stuff, you can...
You can get by in there.
But I...
Yeah, no.
Blue Sky, it's a bit of a mixed bag.
It's a bit...
Yeah, I don't know.
What's the word?
A bit finger-waggy?
How would you describe it, Chris?
I would say a little bit scoldy.
A little bit Twitter circa 2019-2025.
Not entirely, but I think there is an element of that.
And like you say, Twitter is a...
Wretched hive of scum and villainy.
So there's a little bit of pick your poison.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, this affects my ability to provide material for this segment because I, apart from the traveling, I haven't been really up and off the social media.
I haven't been paying attention.
I only have one thing.
But it's a good thing, Matt.
It is a good one.
So what is your one thing?
Let's start with Matt's.
Contribution.
That's one contribution.
It's from the very wonderful, the spectacular Eric Weinstein.
Now, Chris, UFOs are back in the news.
So, I've heard.
A UFO panic.
A UFO panic of New Jersey, is it?
Yeah.
We don't need to comment on that.
Nick West seems skeptical.
I'll take him as my barometer for these things and not devote too many neurons to it myself.
Nobody gets tired.
Nobody gets tired of the exact same thing happening.
You know, it's like the lab link discourse.
But yes, so carry on.
Yes, just to say you're right to be skeptical that this is a big, important news story.
It looks the exact same as every other.
It's like a schedule, right?
Every 18 months or so, it comes along.
Everyone flaps their hands at talking about the government and how can we explain this?
Maybe it was the Chinese and then everyone realizes it's a nothing burger and they forget about it.
Now, Eric is interested.
Eric has something to contribute.
And so he says that people want my speculation on drones over the East Coast.
Yeah, we do.
Let's take note of the following.
I'm not hearing anyone say, let's get together smart people with resources.
At this point, I don't take anyone seriously in USG.
I don't know what USG is, Chris.
Do you know?
United States government?
Oh, yeah.
United States government.
United States government who doesn't ask to convene smart people and resources.
Is this ringing any bells for you, Chris?
Smart people, putting them together with the resources they desperately need in order to come together and solve the problems of America.
Could Eric be one of these smart people?
Could Eric be referring to himself?
Is that possible?
Well, was he wearing a jacket when he wrote this tweet?
Well, I assume so.
I assume so.
I can't say for certain.
But, you know, this should ring bells because Eric has spoken on this topic before.
He seems to be expecting.
He was quite blatantly complaining about not being offered a position in the new Trump administration.
That's just the most recent case.
Yeah.
But even before then, this of course has been a regular theme for him.
He is ready to serve.
The government would just send a helicopter, pick him up.
He's got his jacket on.
He's ready to go.
Why won't they come?
And he's very sour about it.
And he brings it up again.
So he continues.
This is simple.
A, you call up smart people and tell them it's urgent.
B, you tell them where you want them to go.
It's probably the White House.
It could be the Pentagon.
C, you send transport to get them.
It could be a helicopter.
It could be like Secret Service and those bulletproof bus ticket.
Yeah, it could be anything.
D, you tell them they have access, full access to information.
I think that's critical, isn't it?
Okay, yeah, that's crucial.
There's a lot of information that's not being released that the smart people need to look at it.
And E, you tell them they have whatever resources they need.
Just...
Bucket loads of cash.
Anyway, he hasn't mentioned himself here.
He hasn't mentioned himself, not explicitly.
If not, that says it all.
Anyway.
Anyway, if they are not...
Eric's phone is not ringing.
Is that what you're telling me?
Like, it's still, he hasn't received a call, so they're not serious about this issue.
In all fairness, we don't know for sure that he believes that he's one of the smart people that he's referring to in these tweets.
Do we?
Do we not know that for sure?
I'd say we have a lot of reason to infer that Eric thinks he is among that class, but I guess if you want to be very Pedantic about it.
We cannot say that for certain he's referring to himself here.
But yes, so it goes on.
I mean, Eric doesn't do what Mick West does.
Like, he doesn't analyze videos.
He doesn't go out there and interview people and collect data and collaborate with others in order to finish stuff.
He doesn't do any of that.
But he's, you know, he just talks occasionally on podcasts about this stuff.
But he's available.
This is the important.
And I don't know what resources he'll need.
They just know the microphone.
But it has to be unlimited.
They have to be unlimited.
Unlimited, yes.
Money is no object.
Money is no object.
I think that's important.
Lots of resources.
But anyway, it continues, Chris.
A couple more tweets here, which are nice for it.
If they are not trying to figure this out, and they're obviously not since they haven't sent the Secret Service.
Contacted Eric.
Yeah.
Then there is some reason that they are not trying to resolve this.
But I see no signs of trying to quickly resolve this, even if the claim is that it is a panic or a mass psychosis.
So to be clear, my speculation is that I think that this is not something the United States government wants cleared up for the public.
And I don't want to publicly speculate beyond that.
This is disturbing enough.
So there you go.
So that's the thing.
The government...
Like, regardless of whether the aliens are real, it could be mass panic, it could be mass hysteria, it could be aliens, it could be Chinese drones.
But regardless, they haven't called Eric and other smart people together and given them limitless resources to figure it out.
Therefore, they don't want to figure it out.
There is some reason they are trying to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt.
One presumes.
So anyway, that's Eric Weinstein's takes on the UFO flap.
You know, he's on par.
He's on par.
But I enjoyed that.
That was classic.
Classic, Eric.
Never change.
Yeah, yeah.
That's pretty good.
And one day the phone might ring and we'll get this stuff resolved.
But until then, Eric is, you know, it's quite impressive that out of all the people we cover...
He is one of the most blatant in that it's his personal grievance that he has not been invited to, you know, whatever, whatever event it is.
I remember when COVID was happening, he also wasn't receiving the call and he was like, if you're serious about finding out where this virus came from, how to do the public health, you would have called me and my parents up, right?
So you're obviously not serious.
So in general...
They're just not calling enough.
And this is a sign of the time spot.
You know, in a previous age, Eric would have been getting phone calls nonstop for all these issues.
The fact that he's not personally getting called is basically the main proof that all of these conspiracy theories that the government is trying to bamboozle everyone is true.
Because if they were trying to be honest with everyone, they would have called Eric up and got him to sort it out.
Well, yeah.
Now, Matt, I have for my little grab bag, fun box of, you know, guru treats.
I have some, just a few that are actually just one that is from a classical guru.
So since you're dealing with Eric Weinstein, I will just get this one little example or one little treat out of the box and out of the way, right?
Because this is Jordan Peterson.
You've probably heard enough from him.
I know I have, but I chose to listen to him talk to Andrew Doyle and Graham Linehan about their new comedy ventures in the US.
And we also heard recently, I think Jordan Peterson announced that he's leaving Canada.
He's fleeing Trudeau's repressive totalitarian work state for the land of the free in the US.
He's doing that when, by all accounts, Trudeau is likely to lose the next election.
But maybe he'll come back.
But in any case, there's no point in listening to that podcast.
Nobody should.
It is just a grievance-mongering, anti-woke session.
You've heard it a bazillion, jillion times.
But there was one segment of it that I thought was notable.
And it was whenever they were addressing that previously, before Graham Linehan took his strong...
Well, I mean, he's been on a anti-trans kind of conspiratorial personal grievance journey for many years now, right?
So that's not a new turn.
But before, he was also being kind of critical of the, you know, reactionary right-wing type people, right?
So he had actually been critical of Andrew Doyle over something previously and had went and tried to get his like...
GoFundMe campaign or something canceled, right?
So they bring this up in the interview that like, oh, actually, you know, it's funny that we're working together now because previously Graham tried to cancel me, right?
And this leads Jordan to talk about, you know, mistakes that people make.
We've all made mistakes.
It's the fact that we can acknowledge them that's important.
So let's see the example of a mistake that Jordan made that he, you know, thinks it's important to.
Acknowledge.
But you'll hear the little interaction about the cancellation at the start.
And we wrote this satirical piece mocking the court's decision where the character, you know, and Graham attacked me for that online.
I think you called me alt-right or fascist.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
No, no, no.
I'm not saying it to embarrass you.
I think it's quite funny.
It's a nice little connection we have.
Back in the day before we were friends, I was a fascist.
But, you know, I did that.
Now, it's important to highlight these sorts of things, though, because you want to see where you're...
Just like I said, it took me like six months to trust you on X. You want to see...
It's not like only those people are susceptible to this, like, mass hysteria.
You've got to watch and see where you're susceptible, and if you have been susceptible in some manner, you should admit it.
Well, you know, at one point during the...
COVID epidemic, the so-called COVID epidemic, I got vaccinated twice.
Now, in my defense, I was very ill at the time and wasn't really able to think.
But I did get vaccinated.
But I also said at the end of one podcast, and I would say in some ways, despite some inner prompting, that people should just get the damn vaccine.
And my thinking at the time was, Well, seriously, I was like, I'll take the shots.
Here's the deal.
I'll take the shots.
You leave me the hell alone.
And then I found out instantly that the deal was you take the shots and then you take six more and forget about being left alone.
And that was the end of that as far as I was concerned.
But still, I made a mistake.
You know, I made a mistake.
And I would say...
It was very difficult for me at that point to believe that the pharmaceutical companies had become so corrupt that you couldn't trust their vaccine policy.
You know, it was easier to think that it was the more conspiratorially minded, you know, alt-right types that were pushing this doctrine.
So Jordan's regret was that he recommended that people should get vaccinated.
And he got vaccinated himself, Matt, because, you know, he didn't realize the so-called Epidemic and how dangerous these vaccines were.
And he has to live with that, Matt.
He has to live with the fact that he recommended it and that his audience were potentially put in harm's way by his recommendation.
This is a good illustration of the alternative reality of the right-wing sphere.
But also, if you remember, we did an episode where Jordan Peterson was talking to Brett Weinstein when he came back from his recovery period and he was reluctant.
To endorse Brett's, like, more conspiratorial, lurid stuff about the vaccines.
And we said, oh, that's to his credit, you know, that he's not willing to go there.
But that is a thing that he feels very regretful about.
So, yeah.
No, it illustrates that group thing, right?
So it's kind of ironic because their favorite thing, of course, is how...
You know, everyone who was a progressive or on the left or mainstream is just subject to this, you know, stultifying pressure to everyone conform and become NPCs and all agree about things.
And they're the ones that are brave and robust enough to deal with facts and logic.
Yet they all...
Coalesce and come together.
And when they start off disagreeing, they realize that's a problem.
They have discordant views and they need to reconcile them.
And now they're all very much on the same page.
So just at the beginning of that segment, the other two characters were talking about at some point in the past, one of them called the other person like a Nazi or something.
And they were like, now I realize, of course, you know, you're one of the best people.
Like, that was totally wrong.
Did I understand that bit correctly?
But that would be another example, right, of them when they hadn't linked up, when they hadn't formed this community.
The dream team.
They were, you know, being somewhat heterodox, you know what I mean?
Including throwing barbs in the direction of each other, including people who seem to be saying extremely reactionary right-wing stuff.
But now they're all on the same page.
They're all in lockstep.
Yeah, well, this is also, you know, like Graham Linehan, I think, in general, was, you know, more left-leaning traditionally.
Yeah, so Graham Linehan has his one issue, right, that was his entry point for this, right?
Obviously, the trans issue.
But, you know, in other respects, his political, social opinions may well have been, well, all over the shop, right?
They could have been anything.
But the important thing is, is that now they're all in the same...
Everyone has to conform.
Everyone has to have the same array of political views, policy views, and enemies, right?
Yeah, so it is that.
And, you know, as you say, Linehan has started to get into anti-vaccine conspiracies, you know, the kind of standard MAGA stuff.
Yeah, you have to align.
I mean, Jordan's not just aligning on vaccines being, you know, dangerous, but even as he said there, and, you know, you heard in the...
The conversation he had with Destiny, he's not even sure there actually was a pandemic.
The so-called pandemic or epidemic.
It did kill millions of people worldwide, but like, really, Matt, can we call it a pandemic?
Wasn't it just a seasonal flu?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's it.
So, you know, I just thought that was a funny example of the bizarre world they live in where he, you know, needs to apologize because he recommended people take a vaccine during the global.
And also, relatedly, Andrew Huberman now announced that he's going to do a series on vaccines.
I wonder what changed, that he was not talking about vaccines, but now he has decided that he's going to do an in-depth series on the topic.
It wouldn't be that the administration has shifted and that he's going to do a both-sidesing thing.
No, no, I'm sure he will correctly highlight that the...
Evidence-based for vaccines and their efficacy is rock-solid and that a lot of the fears about them are overblown and based on misunderstandings or an anti-vaccine movement.
I'm sure that's why he's going into this and not because he's been attempting to appeal to the new administration and his heterodox audience.
That's the way it'll go.
It'll be about the science.
It will not be about pandering.
To his audience of vaccine, slightly sceptical folk.
Yeah, we'll see.
Almost certainly going to be a both sides thing where he avoids taking too strong a stance because he doesn't want to get into trouble and further demolish his credentials as a reliable scientific Stanford researcher, all that stuff.
And, you know, he will get more attention if he goes all out.
He's certainly not going to tell the truth, because that would be bad business, frankly, for him, given his audience.
So we know what he'll do.
It'll be that both sides in.
It's all very complicated, and there are these things, and who can say?
It's very reasonable to have serious concerns, but he'll probably concede that there could be some benefits for some vaccines for some people, depending on the situation.
Well, so now, Matt, to gurus that we don't cover or guru contenders.
Are they gurus?
We'll find out in due course.
But are you familiar with the journalist Taylor Lorenz?
Not really.
When you mentioned that interview before, I thought you were talking about Taylor Swift.
Taylor Lorenz is a journalist that has covered extremism, online radicalization, a variety of topics.
She did an interview with the Libs of TikTok woman.
She's somebody that's beat the drum for concerns about stochastic.
Terrorism, for example, which would be Alex Jones talking to his audience about all these Klaus Schwab figures that it would be better if the world was without them.
But he's not directly saying that people need to do something, right?
Or actually, he is saying they're doing something, but he's not directly saying go and kill this person, right?
And concerns about stochastic terrorism are that people can kind of gin up, like paint targets on people that are then...
Going to encourage people to actually engage in violence or activities.
For example, Joel Roth, the former head of trust and safety at Twitter, whenever Elon Musk targeted him and made implications that he was a supporter of pedophiles because of misrepresenting his dissertation,
he had to move out of his apartment and stuff and was in danger.
So I think Taylor Lawrence is correct.
When she highlights that we should be concerned about the possibility of encouraging stochastic terrorism and this being a concern on the right.
Sure.
Yep.
Yep.
Yes.
Now, so given that, what's been quite notable is how she and a number of other people, mainly on the left side, have kind of glorified the guy Luigi Mangioni.
That shot the CEO, that executed the CEO of the health insurance company in America recently.
So he's become a bit of a celebrity figure in a way.
And there was a palpable disappointment when it emerged that people find his Twitter account and it turned out he might be a Huberman Joe Rogan, slightly libertarian type, right?
That was not what people...
We're hoping for.
But the thing that has struck me is like Taylor Lorenz, who previously presented this as a huge issue, right?
You shouldn't be glorifying violence because it can lead to genuine outcomes in the real world.
Now, absolutely no concern with that.
So after this news came out, you know, she was posting on Blue Sky, a bunch of stuff, implying that this was, you know, actually a celebratory.
And also posting up the CEOs of other health insurance companies.
Almost like she's putting out a freaking hit list.
And just today, four hours ago at the time of recording, there's a picture of Luigi going to, I think it's trial or something like this.
And he's in the orange jumpsuit being escorted by police and, you know, FBI agents or whatever.
And he's walking towards it and she has...
Posted that picture and said, they can't stop making him look cool as hell.
And she's kind of reveled in this position of, yeah, she's not advocating that people do this, but it's just that it's completely reasonable and understandable that they would.
And he is very cool and beast and this kind of thing.
I don't like him.
And I have a clip to play that illustrates.
Then to get your thoughts off.
This is a person we've never played before because it involves Piers Morgan, right?
Someone I viscerally dislike on a genetic level, I feel, Piers Morgan.
But in this clip, I think he is playing the role of a reasonable critic of Taylor Lorenz's position.
So listen to this short exchange.
Why would you be in such a celebratory mood about the execution of another human being?
Aren't you supposed to be on the caring, sharing left where, you know, you believe in the sanctity of life?
I do believe in the sanctity of life, and I think that's why I felt, along with so many other Americans, joy, unfortunately, you know, because it feels like...
Joy?
Serious?
I mean...
Joy in a man's execution?
Maybe not joy, but certainly not empathy.
Because, again...
We're watching the footage.
How can this make you joyful?
This guy's a husband, he's a father, and he's being young down in the middle of Manhattan.
Why is that making you joyful?
So are the tens of thousands of Americans, innocent Americans, who died because greedy health insurance executives like this one...
Push policies of denying care to the most vulnerable people.
And the many millions of Americans that have watched people that I care about suffer and in some cases die because of lack of health care.
So should they all be killed, then?
Should they all be killed, these health care executives?
Would that make you even more joyful?
No, that would not.
But why not?
Why are you laughing?
I think because...
Here is.
Because it wouldn't fix the system.
You seem to find the whole thing hilarious.
I find your question funny.
A bloke's been murdered in the street.
I don't find it funny at all.
You've got Piers' moral outrage.
Yeah, he's doing his thing.
Yeah, so, I mean, this is, you know, for people that are not on social media, you might not know.
But, you know, it's a pretty commonly expressed sentiment amongst the, I don't know, activists left, I suppose you'd call it, that, you know, people might...
Not outright endorse it as a positive policy going forward, but at the very least, a kind of okay with the executing healthcare CEOs because of their crimes, essentially.
So there has been a lot of hero worship.
Definitely helps with the guy's good looking.
I saw someone say this is like finding out about Robin Hood in the 1300s.
Like every new update that comes from this guy, I'm like, that's so sick.
Yeah, that's the thing that's been going on.
In that clip as well, Matt, you hear that thing where it reminds me of a lot of the people that we've covered where they want to say something edgy.
They'll say, you know, what was your reaction to that event?
Well, it was actually joyful.
And then when they're pushed on it, they'll immediately say, well...
I don't endorse it.
I don't endorse it.
Yeah, I'm not saying it's good, right?
Like, I'm not saying that we should call for it.
And I feel like if this were...
A different target.
If it was somebody that was vilified by the left and somebody was being interviewed and said, like, the murder made them feel joyful.
And then they said, well, you know, not joyful.
You know, I'm not advocating for it.
Like, I just think you cannot do the hand-wringing about stochastic terrorism and then promote, oh, look how cool this person is.
And there's plenty of legitimate reasons that people would, you know, feel that it's...
Okay to kill healthcare CEO.
And that doesn't matter in terms of your opinion about the American healthcare situation.
Whether you think it's great, which very few people I think do, or whether you think it's terrible and exploitative.
The issue is executing people responsible for those.
So like, if this principle is okay, there is a lot of exploitative industries out there with a lot of...
Capitalist figures, right?
A lot of CEOs around that it would be, maybe it's not okay, but the moral calculus for murdering them is certainly something that we have to be at.
And if you want to take that stance and take the stance that it's extremely bad when people imply that others could be morally correct to act in targeting people that they see as doing severe harm.
Like, it just, there's an obvious contradiction there, because, like, if you think that doctors are poisoning people with vaccines, or they're lying about these viruses that they're releasing on the unwitting public...
Or if you feel really strongly about abortion.
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