Dinesh D'Souza - ENDGAME IN IRAN
Aired: 2026-03-30
Duration: 01:02:57


=== End Game in Iran (11:44) ===

[00:01:14]  It's time to consider our end game in Iran.
[00:01:18]  I'm not just speaking of the date for getting out.
[00:01:20]  I'm also speaking of the objective that we sought to accomplish when we undertook this military intervention in the first place.
[00:01:28]  Has that objective been achieved?
[00:01:30]  And if so, is it time to call it quits in Iran?
[00:01:34]  It's a complex question because there are two separate objectives, which supply two different answers to the question.
[00:01:40]  The first objective is regime change, get rid of the mullahs, free Iran.
[00:01:46]  The second objective is immobilize and degrade Iran's fighting capability, take Iran out of the nukes business, wipe out Iran's military resources, shut down the military and terrorist infrastructure of the mullahs.
[00:02:01]  Now, I'm going to argue that while objective one is desirable, I support it, it's not why we got in, and it's not worth the risk and the cost.
[00:02:10]  Objective two, by contrast, is why we got involved.
[00:02:14]  It has been largely achieved.
[00:02:16]  It shouldn't take too long to finish the job.
[00:02:19]  It's time to consider a date for a triumphant exit.
[00:02:23]  Now, I recognize that many in the U.S. military, both leaders and Navy and Air Force personnel, might not share my view.
[00:02:30]  They're having too much fun in Iran.
[00:02:32]  I know it's a weird thing to say, but it's true.
[00:02:35]  I'm reminded of when Trump said to Heg Seth, hey, why do we have to blow up the Iranian ships?
[00:02:41]  It seems like a huge waste.
[00:02:42]  Why don't we just capture them instead?
[00:02:45]  And Hegset said, well, it's more fun to blow them up.
[00:02:48]  All lying at the bottom of the ocean.
[00:02:50]  46 ships.
[00:02:51]  Can you believe it?
[00:02:53]  In fact, I got a little upset with our people.
[00:02:55]  I said, what quality of ship?
[00:02:57]  Excellent, sir.
[00:02:58]  Top of the line.
[00:02:59]  I said, why did we just capture the ship?
[00:03:01]  We're going to use it.
[00:03:02]  Why did we sink them?
[00:03:03]  They said, it's more fun to sink them.
[00:03:05]  He said, that's they like sinking him better.
[00:03:08]  They say it's safer to sink him.
[00:03:10]  I guess it's probably true.
[00:03:13]  So there will be people in high places who want the fun to continue.
[00:03:17]  We make these big, beautiful bombs.
[00:03:19]  It seems like a waste to just keep them in storage.
[00:03:22]  Why not use them every now and then?
[00:03:24]  And what better target than a meeting place for the mullahs or terrorist command center?
[00:03:29]  Push some buttons, kaboom, a huge flash of light, silence.
[00:03:33]  The mullahs and the terrorists have achieved the martyrdom they keenly desire.
[00:03:37]  They wanted it, and we supplied it.
[00:03:39]  Thank you very much.
[00:03:41]  We often forget that a big motive for people going into the military is that they love to fight.
[00:03:46]  Same reason people sign up to become cops.
[00:03:49]  These are the kids who like being the tough guys.
[00:03:51]  Sure, they're doing it for patriotism and for scholarships, but there are other ways to be patriotic, and there are other ways to get scholarships.
[00:03:59]  The unspoken bonus of becoming an Air Force or Navy pilot is that you get to drop hefty bombs and see things go boom.
[00:04:07]  Now, it's worth noting that the U.S. is decisively winning in Iran.
[00:04:12]  You might not realize this if you read the anti-war propaganda of the left and the right.
[00:04:17]  According to that propaganda, which always makes me chuckle, Iran is always on the verge of striking back.
[00:04:23]  See, they got a missile through to Jerusalem, even though it hardly did any damage.
[00:04:27]  See, they can even reach Diego Garcia, even if it got intercepted.
[00:04:31]  But just wait, they've got some big maneuvers up their sleeve.
[00:04:35]  This kind of reminds me of that Maudy Python skit.
[00:04:42]  Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
[00:04:44]  Tis but a scratch.
[00:04:46]  A scratch?
[00:04:47]  Your arms off.
[00:04:48]  No, it isn't.
[00:04:48]  But what's that then?
[00:04:51]  I've had worse.
[00:04:52]  You liar.
[00:04:53]  Come on, you pansy!
[00:05:02]  Victory is mine!
[00:05:05]  We thank thee, Lord, that in thy mind...
[00:05:09]  Come on, then!
[00:05:10]  What?
[00:05:11]  Hamacho!
[00:05:14]  You're indeed brave tonight, but the fight is mine.
[00:05:17]  Oh, and enough, eh?
[00:05:19]  Look, you stupid.
[00:05:20]  You've got no arms left.
[00:05:22]  Yes, I have.
[00:05:23]  Look!
[00:05:23]  It's just a flesh wound.
[00:05:26]  Look, stop that.
[00:05:27]  Chicken.
[00:05:28]  Chicken.
[00:05:29]  Look, I'll have your leg.
[00:05:31]  Right.
[00:05:34]  Right.
[00:05:35]  I'll do you for that.
[00:05:36]  You what?
[00:05:36]  Come here.
[00:05:38]  What are you going to do?
[00:05:38]  Bleed on me?
[00:05:40]  I'm invincible.
[00:05:41]  You're a loony.
[00:05:43]  The Black Knight always triumphs.
[00:05:46]  Hamacho.
[00:05:48]  C'mon, then!
[00:05:54]  Alright?
[00:05:55]  We'll call it a draw.
[00:05:57]  Come, Patsy.
[00:05:58]  Oh, oh, I see.
[00:06:00]  Running away, eh?
[00:06:02]  You yellow.
[00:06:04]  Come back here and take on Canon Day.
[00:06:07]  I'll bite your legs off.
[00:06:09]  No, Iran is not winning the war.
[00:06:11]  This big, rich, once powerful nation has been crippled.
[00:06:15]  Our military and Israel's military have delivered.
[00:06:18]  We're the good guys in this fight, and we're winning.
[00:06:21]  Sometimes we have to admit the truth about ourselves, no matter how pleasant it is.
[00:06:27]  Now, if we're winning, it's tempting to keep going.
[00:06:30]  The reason to keep going, even to escalate, is to get rid of the mullahs.
[00:06:35]  This, I admit, would be great.
[00:06:37]  Can you imagine a peaceful, prosperous, pro-American Iran?
[00:06:41]  It would not merely change the map of the Middle East, it would change the global balance of power.
[00:06:46]  It would be a victory as big as America's victory in the Cold War.
[00:06:50]  But wait, you say, how do we know what would come afterward?
[00:06:54]  What would replace the mullahs?
[00:06:56]  Well, my point is it doesn't really matter.
[00:06:59]  It might be a monarchy or a constitutional monarchy of the type Iran had before with the Shah.
[00:07:05]  It might be a parliamentary system.
[00:07:07]  It might be something that resembles the relatively benign authoritarianism of the Gulf kingdoms.
[00:07:13]  But can anyone doubt that what followed would be better than what's there now?
[00:07:18]  In politics, we rarely get an outcome that is ideal.
[00:07:21]  Most of the time, we have to settle for making things better.
[00:07:24]  Success, in other words, means improvement.
[00:07:27]  It doesn't mean utopia.
[00:07:28]  Even in the Cold War, we got rid of Soviet communism and we got Putin-style authoritarianism and gangster capitalism.
[00:07:35]  Not ideal, but certainly better than what we were dealing with before.
[00:07:40]  So, what are the risks of escalating in Iran with the goal of regime change?
[00:07:45]  Well, first, there's the risk of U.S. military casualties.
[00:07:48]  This is a really big one, and it's a haunting reminder of what we endured in Afghanistan and Iran over so many years.
[00:07:56]  Second, there are the risks of occupation.
[00:07:58]  Remember Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice.
[00:08:01]  If we break it, we own it.
[00:08:03]  Idiots.
[00:08:04]  Yet the problem is a real one.
[00:08:06]  Once we run the mullahs out, what happens next?
[00:08:09]  The problem in Iran is, in this respect, the same as the problem in Afghanistan and Iraq.
[00:08:14]  The problem, quite simply, is that the bad guys run everything.
[00:08:18]  In Iran, they have had almost 50 years to consolidate control.
[00:08:23]  The mullahs and their apparatchiks control every school, every media outlet, every local council, every institution.
[00:08:30]  How do we root them out?
[00:08:32]  We're not going to.
[00:08:33]  We can't.
[00:08:34]  This is a recipe for quagmire.
[00:08:37]  Am I saying then that we cannot have a free Iran?
[00:08:40]  No, we actually can.
[00:08:42]  But the Iranian people are going to have to make that happen.
[00:08:45]  They are going to have to take to the streets, throw out the mullahs, and take control of their own country.
[00:08:51]  Remember what the people of Eastern Europe did at the end of the Cold War?
[00:08:54]  They toppled the Berlin Wall.
[00:08:56]  They rooted out Ceausescu.
[00:08:58]  They took back their countries from the communists.
[00:09:01]  I understand that the Iranian people are scared.
[00:09:04]  Tens of thousands of them got massacred just a few weeks ago for coming out into the streets to protest.
[00:09:10]  Even under duress, the Iranian regime continues to execute dissidents.
[00:09:14]  They executed one of their own athletes, a young wrestler, and just a few days ago, they executed an 18-year-old girl, Malika Azizi.
[00:09:23]  If I were Marco Rubio, I'd encourage the Persian community in America and worldwide to fund 1 million rifles to equip the Iranians to confront their oppressors.
[00:09:33]  How to get those weapons into the country?
[00:09:36]  I don't know, but I'm sure we can figure it out.
[00:09:38]  This would certainly level the playing field between the murderous regime and its now helpless victims.
[00:09:45]  But even so, the Iranian people there might not be ready to do it.
[00:09:49]  They might not be willing to take the risk.
[00:09:51]  But in that case, they have to recognize that our intervention on behalf of their freedom has its limits.
[00:09:57]  The U.S. and Israel have created the conditions for an Iranian counter-revolution.
[00:10:02]  If the Iranians opt not to do it, it is their choice.
[00:10:05]  We have done what we can to create the opening for them.
[00:10:09]  Now, I realize, of course, that Israel might want to go all the way in Iran.
[00:10:13]  Israel might be willing to send ground troops.
[00:10:15]  It would be supremely impressive to see a nation of 10 million actually take on a nation of 90 million, David versus Goliath.
[00:10:23]  Goliath remains formidable.
[00:10:25]  Iran could threaten to roil the global oil markets by closing the Strait of Hormuz, but I'm still betting on David.
[00:10:32]  I interviewed Netanyahu for my last film, The Dragon's Prophecy, and he told me that after October 7th, he knew he would have to remake the map of the Middle East.
[00:10:42]  I said and promised that we would change the Middle East.
[00:10:45]  And effectively, that's what we have been doing and are doing right now: changing the Middle East, ridding it of the Iran Axis, ridding it of Iran's proxies, but also ridding it of Iran's threat to annihilate Israel and threaten the West with nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles.
[00:11:03]  Iran was the leading planner of October 7.
[00:11:06]  That was Israel's Pearl Harbor.
[00:11:08]  Israel has every justification to strike back, just as we did after Pearl Harbor.
[00:11:13]  If I were Trump and Netanyahu told me we want to keep going, my answer would be: good luck, man.
[00:11:18]  More power to you.
[00:11:20]  My point is that we have reached the juncture at which U.S. and Israeli interests diverge.
[00:11:26]  This, by the way, is quite normal in international relations.
[00:11:29]  U.S. and British interests diverged in World War II.
[00:11:32]  The Brits would have liked us to get in in 1939, and we got in only in 1941 after Pearl Harbor.
[00:11:40]  In World War II, we told the Brits, we wish you well, but it's not our fight yet.
[00:11:46]  Britain's interests and ours vis-a-vis the Nazis were not the same.
[00:11:49]  And now we've reached a comparable situation.
[00:11:52]  Our objectives in Iran might be achieved, while Israel's are not.
[00:11:55]  And so we must tell Israel we wish you well, but it's not our fight anymore.
[00:12:00]  For Trump to convey this to Netanyahu and for the U.S. to get out while Israel fights on has the added benefit of discrediting the podcast pundits on the right who say Trump is controlled by Netanyahu.
[00:12:13]  Now, this is both insulting to Trump and kind of absurd.
[00:12:16]  It was never true.
[00:12:17]  But for Trump and Netanyahu to go their own ways would absolutely prove the point.
[00:12:21]  Look, Tucker, look, Megan, we're doing what's good for us and they're doing what's good for them.
[00:12:26]  Kapish.
[00:12:27]  The goal of getting rid of the mullahs, while desirable, was never the stated motive for U.S. action.
[00:12:34]  The goal, which Trump and Hegseth, and Rubio expressed, was to paralyze Iran's military and terrorist and nuclear infrastructure.
[00:12:42]  We've largely done that.
[00:12:44]  And so it's appropriate to plot out our endgame.
[00:12:48]  I'm not saying we have to get out now.
[00:12:50]  I'm saying we should plan to get out soon.
[00:12:53]  Why?
[00:12:54]  Well, we've got some midterms coming up, and midterms are one on the issues of peace and prosperity.

=== Crypto Market Surge (03:37) ===

[00:12:59]  It would be nice to see gas prices come back down.
[00:13:02]  It would be nice to see a market surge.
[00:13:04]  It would be good for the Trump administration to focus on its domestic agenda, ramp up deportations, prosecute the Democrats who abused their power during the Biden years.
[00:13:14]  That's long overdue.
[00:13:16]  We're on the verge of a revolution in robotics and AI.
[00:13:19]  I recognize that these things give some people the heebie-jeebies, but deployed well, they can help make America great again.
[00:13:26]  Imagine hundreds of thousands of new homes largely built by robots at prices that resemble what your parents or grandparents paid.
[00:13:34]  Imagine remaking American education, now a cesspool with AI that makes obsolete all the blue-haired trans teachers and administrators.
[00:13:44]  This to me is just as exciting, more exciting, than dropping bombs on the heads of fanatical mullahs.
[00:13:50]  One final point: the radical mullahs aren't content to make trouble in Iran or through their various terrorist offshoots, Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, Boko Haram, and so on.
[00:14:00]  The bad guys are no longer over there, they are now here.
[00:14:04]  They have infiltrated our society and they are in the middle of a takeover attempt.
[00:14:09]  This is their endgame.
[00:14:11]  We're going to have to deal with this problem at home.
[00:14:15]  No one is coming to save us.
[00:14:17]  We have to save ourselves.
[00:14:20]  And that's the way I see it.
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[00:14:34]  It's 2 a.m., 3 a.m.
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[00:14:38]  Because here's what nobody tells you.
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[00:16:11]  John Guandolo is one of the foremost authorities on terrorism in the United States.
[00:16:18]  He's a former Marine.
[00:16:19]  He was a platoon commander in the Gulf War, Operation Desert Storm.
[00:16:24]  He joined the FBI in 1996, served for a long time, investigated, in fact, the 9-11 attacks, was also specialized in terrorism.

=== Facade of Muslim Nations (15:21) ===

[00:16:37]  And for the last several years, he's been training law enforcement officials as well as elected officials on the greatest threats facing this country on the home front.
[00:16:49]  He has a new book, The Campaign Plan for Victory.
[00:16:53]  It's a kind of manual for how to deal with the unacknowledged problem, or at least unacknowledged in its seriousness, facing us as a country and as citizens.
[00:17:06]  John, I want to begin by framing the threat as you describe it and as you've been talking about it.
[00:17:14]  We've been hearing since 9-11 kind of two versions.
[00:17:19]  One version coming from the left is that there is really no threat.
[00:17:25]  The threat is Islamophobia, that we're afraid of Islam, people develop this unhealthy resistance to Islam, and that we need to get over it.
[00:17:36]  But from the right, going back to the Bush years, but I think continuing on to now, that there is this thing called radical Islam.
[00:17:43]  Radical Islam may have arisen out of the soil of Islam itself, but it is a kind of mutant extremism.
[00:17:53]  And we need to be aware of that because radical Islam is trying to make headway in the United States.
[00:17:59]  But you say that the threat is broader and the threat is Islam itself.
[00:18:07]  Explain.
[00:18:09]  Well, first of all, I'm grateful for this conversation.
[00:18:13]  I think it's something that surprisingly is not being had more frequently in more circles.
[00:18:21]  So I'm grateful for you to take the lead on this.
[00:18:26]  I think if you just look, I go back to a few questions I ask audiences when I speak.
[00:18:33]  What does Islam say its purpose is?
[00:18:36]  Normative, mainstream, universally taught Islam.
[00:18:41]  And what do Muslims teach their children in Islamic schools in the United States and North America, more broadly in Europe, in Asia, in the Middle East, etc.?
[00:18:54]  And what you find is it's vanilla.
[00:18:58]  It's the same flavor everywhere.
[00:19:01]  And when you pick up these books and you read one or two or five dozen, and then you compare what Muslim 10-year-olds are being taught in U.S. Islamic schools versus what al-Qaeda, Islamic State, Hamas soldiers are being taught, it's the same thing.
[00:19:22]  And so for me, this journey has been one that is a bit confusing because to me, Islam is actually very straightforward and simple, intentionally so.
[00:19:36]  And the question is, I believe, which goes to your question about the threat, why is it that our leaders, what our leaders say, most of them, the vast majority, about Islam is exactly opposite of what 10-year-old Muslim children are taught about Islam in U.S. Islamic schools and Islamic schools across the world.
[00:19:58]  And I think that, the answer to that, is that what al-Qaeda has been doing and what Islamic State's been doing and what Iran and Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Pakistan are doing and Turkey is just normal Islam.
[00:20:14]  And if you read what Islam says about how jihad is waged and the requirements of it, they're not all moving at the same pace.
[00:20:27]  Different nations are doing different things.
[00:20:31]  But deception is at the core.
[00:20:33]  I mean, jihad is at the core and deception is at the core of Islam.
[00:20:39]  So for 30 years, we've had Islamic leaders in the United States telling U.S. leaders how to defeat jihadis.
[00:20:48]  And I just think that's the reason we're losing so badly.
[00:20:53]  Would you say that the two core concepts here, and these are the concepts that illuminate the whole thing, are number one, the concept of jihad, which essentially means struggle, but it has various dimensions.
[00:21:07]  People talk about military jihad, financial jihad, and so on.
[00:21:12]  And the other concept is Sharia.
[00:21:15]  And Sharia refers to the fact that Islam is not merely a sort of confessional religion, but rather a comprehensive system of law that is intended ultimately to impose itself on the whole world.
[00:21:33]  So in that sense, jihad and sharia work together with a clearly stated objective, world domination, and the use of all kinds of tactics, military and non-military, to bring about that end.
[00:21:52]  That's, you just summed it up very well.
[00:21:56]  Islam teaches the entire world is essentially divided into two parts, the Dar al-Harb and the Dar al-Islam, that the house of Islam, where Sharia, Allah's law, is imposed on earth and everywhere else, which is the house of war.
[00:22:16]  And the purpose, the stated purpose of Islam is to eliminate the house of war until the entire world's under the house of Islam, Sharia, the law of the land.
[00:22:26]  And the vehicle to do that is jihad, which is only legally defined in Islam and Sharia as warfare against non-Muslims to establish Islam.
[00:22:41]  So while we can talk about linguistically what the word jihad means, that has no play in this.
[00:22:51]  It's the legal definition of jihad as warfare against non-Muslims.
[00:22:55]  And it's a communal obligation.
[00:22:58]  It is an individual obligation in certain circumstances.
[00:23:02]  And Sharia lays that out.
[00:23:04]  And Muslims are taught that.
[00:23:05]  Muslims know that for the most part.
[00:23:09]  The other thing you bring up, this idea, which is Sharia.
[00:23:14]  And it's important to note that Islam is Sharia.
[00:23:18]  Sharia is Islam.
[00:23:20]  I mean, the whole purpose of Islam is to impose Allah's law on the earth.
[00:23:24]  That's it.
[00:23:25]  And the vehicle to do it, again, is jihad.
[00:23:29]  But jihad, as you just mentioned, is not merely military warfare.
[00:23:34]  It's total war.
[00:23:37]  It's military warfare for sure, but it's espionage, counterintelligence, subversion, deception operations, propaganda, psychological warfare, chemical, nuclear, and biological warfare.
[00:23:51]  It's everything.
[00:23:52]  And the fact that we can go back to the Clinton administration and show that the senior Islamic advisors or senior advisors in the Pentagon, in the State Department, Treasury, and other places in the White House.
[00:24:07]  I mean, under the Biden administration, we had a Hamas guy, Meher Bittar, who was the director of intelligence for the National Security Council.
[00:24:15]  I mean, when you have jihadis in these roles, suit-wearing jihadis, you can understand why not only our foreign policy is incoherent and our warfighting strategy is incoherent, but why our military leaders are clueless and have Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood advisors telling them how to deal with Muslims and their units and things like this.
[00:24:45]  I mean, it's insanity.
[00:24:49]  So I think when you just, when you look at, again, what sixth and seventh graders Muslims are taught in U.S. Islamic schools, you come to see that it is very clear.
[00:25:04]  And I think what you just said, it is perfectly clear.
[00:25:08]  And unfortunately, 10-year-old Muslim children know it, but presidents, national security advisors, and four-star generals do not.
[00:25:18]  Now, let me press back on a couple of points here, John, just to bring out more clearly what we're talking about.
[00:25:26]  If all the Muslims are jihadis in a certain common cause, how do you explain the fact that you have this jihadist regime, Iran, the mullahs in Iran, and they are being currently opposed, it seems, by Saudi Arabia, by the Gulf kingdoms, by United Arab Emirates, even Qatar, a highly suspect entity,
[00:25:53]  has kind of moved into the other side against Iran.
[00:25:57]  It seems to be part of Trump's strategy not to have this be a war against Islam, but to bring these Muslim countries onto our side against Iran.
[00:26:08]  Wouldn't this cut against the idea that the Muslims are a single unit, all operating in a coordinated fashion toward a single goal?
[00:26:18]  If you looked at it, I think in a vacuum, yes, but this isn't a vacuum.
[00:26:24]  When you look at the fact that we're, so first, let's talk about the nation states.
[00:26:29]  All of those nations you just mentioned are signatories to the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights and Islam, which states that the entire Muslim world, under the banner of the OIC, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, every Muslim nation on earth at the head of state level, they say they only understand human rights through the lens of Sharia.
[00:26:55]  And it says it right there.
[00:26:57]  It's the last article that Islamic Sharia is the only source of reference for the entire Islamic world's understanding of human rights, which means legally the Muslim world has defined human rights as the imposition of Sharia.
[00:27:16]  So human rights is being able to force non-Muslims to either convert to Islam, submit to Islam, pay the non-Muslim poll tax, or kill them if they're Jewish, Christian, or Zoroastrian.
[00:27:30]  If they're not, just convert or be killed.
[00:27:34]  Human rights in Islam is to kill people that leave Islam.
[00:27:39]  Human rights in Islam is to kill, stone adulterers to death and execute homosexuals and treat women as property.
[00:27:49]  These are human normal, this is normative human rights that all Sharia recognizes, and there is no authoritatively published Sharia that says something different than that.
[00:28:03]  How do you explain the fact that let's take a country like the United Arab Emirates, where you have they're clearly devout Muslims, the country is full of Muslims.
[00:28:14]  Now, obviously, there are some European and American and foreign workers who work there, but they don't do these things.
[00:28:22]  In other words, they don't carry out regular stonings, they don't chop your arms and legs off.
[00:28:27]  And so, would you say that they are simply not observing Sharia?
[00:28:31]  Are you saying that they are not as devout as they ought to be?
[00:28:35]  Are you saying, in effect, that the kind of the only are you saying that they're falling short of what they themselves have committed to?
[00:28:45]  No, not necessarily.
[00:28:47]  See, that in Islam, I mentioned it earlier: lying, and specifically Islamic law, uses the phrase legally, permissible lying, that it's permissible to lie if the goal is permissible and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory.
[00:29:05]  Well, waging jihad to establish Sharia on earth is the stated purpose of Islam.
[00:29:12]  It's obligatory.
[00:29:14]  So, when we see these things like you were talking about earlier, where these nation-states publicly align with each other and against other Muslim nation-states, this is a facade.
[00:29:29]  This is for show for us to show that, to give the impression that there is some organized moderating effort in the Muslim community against these radical Iranians.
[00:29:45]  This is garbage.
[00:29:46]  I mean, this is a show for our sake.
[00:29:50]  And we know this because these countries work together to advance Sharia and to advance Islam.
[00:29:59]  Saudi Arabia has, since the, I mean, you could go back to the 60s through today, been one of the largest funders of the global jihad, the advancement of the Islamic movement and in support of terrorist operations, including direct support from the Saudi government for the 9-11 operations.
[00:30:22]  You look at Qatar currently has taken over that role and I think done a much more effective job, nefariously, of course, than Saudi Arabia in undermining Europe and the United States with their subversive operations and their overt support for terrorists.
[00:30:42]  And we see that Egypt and UAE are aligned with Saudi Arabia and other nations aligned with Qatar.
[00:30:52]  Iran for years has worked directly with Qatar.
[00:30:58]  When Muslim organizations, be they military jihadi organizations, Islamic movement organizations like Muslim Brotherhood or Diobandi organizations or Tbliki Jamaat, Jamai Islami, or nation states, when they are in conflict with one another, we need to understand that the conflict is always about matters of power and/or Sharia.
[00:31:26]  That's it.
[00:31:27]  So of course these nations want to be top dog.
[00:31:33]  But we have to not look at what they say, but look at what their history is and what they're doing.
[00:31:41]  Debbie and I know this guy who drives us to the airport.
[00:31:45]  And since we travel a lot, we've gotten to know him on many, many trips back and forth to the airport.
[00:31:52]  A Muslim guy and Muslim family originally from Senegal.

=== Deception at Core (14:04) ===

[00:31:58]  And I'm just trying to envision him listening to our conversation because the guy is quite devout.
[00:32:05]  He, in fact, recently made his first Hajj trip to Mecca.
[00:32:10]  He described to us what I thought maybe I shouldn't have been amused, but there's this practice that they have where they all go to a wall and they throw stones at the wall.
[00:32:20]  And I'm like, why are you throwing stones at the wall?
[00:32:23]  And he goes, no, that's the ceremony of the stoning of Satan.
[00:32:27]  So he's a guy who's, you know, finally put the money together to be able to pull this off.
[00:32:33]  He seems very earnest in his desire to be in conformity with Islam.
[00:32:39]  And yet he seems like a guy trying to kind of hustle his way and make good in America.
[00:32:44]  I don't see him as in any way sympathizing with some sort of takeover of neighborhoods, takeover of communities.
[00:32:54]  And yet I do probably agree that if you were to ask him in a generic sense, do you think that it would be good for the whole world to be Muslim?
[00:33:02]  He would probably say yes.
[00:33:04]  How would you sort of psychologically analyze a case like this?
[00:33:08]  Is this a guy who is like not alert to what Islam truly is?
[00:33:13]  Or is this a guy who, I mean, is this a guy to be feared?
[00:33:17]  So this is a great question.
[00:33:19]  I love this question.
[00:33:20]  I actually get this a fair amount.
[00:33:24]  Other versions of the question is people will say, well, my friend fill in the blank name is a Muslim and they say this.
[00:33:32]  Well, interestingly, when they ask, you know, how should I approach this?
[00:33:37]  And I give them a few questions to ask, you know, they come back horrified to realize their friend actually is ideologically aligned with al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood because that's what Islam teaches.
[00:33:49]  And so that's the first thing.
[00:33:51]  And I'll just say that as a general comment, but I have two pieces I'd like to discuss.
[00:33:58]  First, individual Muslims and their understanding of Islam or their practice of normative and mainstream Islamic doctrine doesn't constitute a different version of Islam if they're out of the bounds.
[00:34:17]  Islam is what Islam is.
[00:34:20]  Islam is very easy to understand.
[00:34:24]  And again, I tell people, if you just read Islamic law, you know, people are like, should I read the Quran or study the Hadith?
[00:34:32]  I'm like, Islamic scholars have already done that.
[00:34:34]  Just read Islamic law and read textbooks used to teach Muslim children about Islam.
[00:34:40]  And it's very clear, very clear.
[00:34:45]  The purpose of Islam is to wage jihad to establish Sharia on earth.
[00:34:49]  That's it.
[00:34:52]  It's just not that complicated.
[00:34:54]  The governmental system is easy to understand.
[00:34:59]  Islam, as you mentioned earlier, is one conglomerate.
[00:35:03]  It's military, social, political, religious, cultural, all wrapped up into one.
[00:35:09]  It's a totalitarian system governed by real law.
[00:35:14]  So whether a Muslim does or does not adhere to Islam and all of its tenets doesn't change what Islam is.
[00:35:23]  That's the first part.
[00:35:25]  The second part is over the years, I have had a lot of experience engaging Muslims in these conversations.
[00:35:37]  When I worked at the Department of Defense and would take taxicab rides from our office in Northern Virginia to Capitol Hill or to offices in D.C. to do the work that we were doing, my experience was 100% of the cab drivers, 100%, were Muslim, which I find interesting.
[00:36:01]  It's a data point.
[00:36:03]  But I would engage them and I acted as if I had no idea about Islam and would ask a few simple questions.
[00:36:11]  And in the end, 100% of those people driving were very polite, very nice, but they all understood what Islam's purpose was and they were all supportive of it.
[00:36:21]  Now, that's just one guy's, but that's arguably over the years.
[00:36:24]  I did that, you know, close to 100 different cab rides.
[00:36:28]  And that was my experience.
[00:36:31]  And I've talked to a lot of people who I've trained over the years who do the same thing with Uber drivers and taxicab drivers that are Muslim.
[00:36:40]  And they get the same response.
[00:36:42]  And so my experience is, and I pulled this book out and I wanted to read because I thought it might come into play.
[00:36:52]  And it does in an answer to your question.
[00:36:55]  Now, this is a book called The Methodology of Dawah.
[00:36:59]  Now, you can tell my copy is beat up because it's old.
[00:37:04]  But this is a book that was published in 1989 by the Muslim Brotherhood, by a guy who's a Shamim Siddiqui, a Muslim brother in New York.
[00:37:20]  But again, what is it that the Muslim Brotherhood seeks to do?
[00:37:24]  They seek to impose Allah's law on the land, which is what Islam seeks to do.
[00:37:30]  But when they talk about bringing non-Muslims into Islam, this is what they say.
[00:37:36]  Some rituals of religion and tradition of the Muslim community are explained.
[00:37:41]  A short account of the Prophet's life is presented without the revolutionary aspect.
[00:37:47]  When Islam is acceptable to the new entrants in this concocted or abbreviated form, the ceremony of Shahada is performed with great reverence.
[00:37:58]  A non-Muslim thus becomes a Muslim obedient to Allah alone.
[00:38:02]  The revolutionary aspect of Islam is rarely brought before the new converts, as in most cases, the Da'i himself is not conversant with it, meaning the Muslim, the Da'i who's done the dawah to bring the non-Muslim to Islam, isn't conversant with it.
[00:38:22]  Now, I want you to think about that.
[00:38:24]  So when you understand that in the Muslim community, they bring people into Islam just like Muhammad did with the first generation.
[00:38:36]  There's no jihad, then there's jihad for what they call defensive purposes, and then there's limited offensive jihad.
[00:38:47]  And then finally, there's the jihad that must be performed until the entire world submits to Islam.
[00:38:56]  And so Muslims themselves are brought along, and some may not fully understand and don't understand the full purpose of Islam.
[00:39:07]  But where we are today, they are very overt about it.
[00:39:12]  That's why they are more the leaders of the Islamic community overt that jihad and calling people specifically in certain parts of the country like Texas, which is the primary target right now, calling them to the jihad, explaining to them in a non-Muslim community that, of course, you must submit to Islam and Islam will dominate.
[00:39:35]  They are overt about it now because they feel like victory is at hand.
[00:39:40]  So they don't have to withhold and necessarily be as deceptive as they have been up until now.
[00:39:48]  But all of this to answer that question, there's a lot at play here and deception, again, is at the core of Islam.
[00:39:59]  And they will pretend to be friendly right up until the point they're not.
[00:40:03]  And if anyone listening or viewing this is unclear, you should talk to some Hindus in India and ask them about the Muslims who were their neighbors and friends and whose children played together and they had dinner over at each other's homes right up until the point the Imam said, well, today's the day, and then they killed them.
[00:40:27]  That's modern, that's current history, not hundreds of years ago.
[00:40:32]  You know, I was talking, John, recently to a missionary in Nigeria who said exactly the same thing about Christians.
[00:40:39]  There were Christians and Muslims who lived in that kind of borderland in Nigeria, the Muslims dominant in the northern part, the Christians in the southern part.
[00:40:48]  So there's a certain common area.
[00:40:50]  And these people had gotten along for many years until, like you said, the order came.
[00:40:57]  So, in effect, what you're saying, and it's very startling, and I think people need to get the full grasp of it: that, you know, we talk about there are like sleeper cells in America, there's sleeper cells in Europe.
[00:41:10]  You're saying that Islam is the sleeper cell and that observant Muslims in America are all part of this sleeper cell, in some ways, awaiting notification to move into action.
[00:41:30]  That's pretty close.
[00:41:31]  Yes, I want to be clear about a couple points that I think are very important.
[00:41:36]  Not all people who self-identify as Muslims want to wage jihad and want to impose Sharia.
[00:41:44]  However, normative mainstream Islam teaches that that is a requirement.
[00:41:50]  So if we look over history, how Islam becomes dominant and then wanes and becomes dominant, it's because wars have been waged against Islam to put the boot on the neck of Islam to keep it from doing what it naturally does.
[00:42:10]  But because Islam's doctrine and what it requires of Muslims is contrary to human nature, we have people, humans, who are born into the Muslim community.
[00:42:23]  They themselves may not want to be a part of it.
[00:42:26]  However, as Islamic scholars have said over the years, including recently, because of the law of apostasy, that if you leave Islam, you are killed, most people would prefer to live under the blanket or the enslavement of Islam than die.
[00:42:49]  And so a lot of people tolerate this.
[00:42:53]  So when you talk about what's the psychology behind some of this, this is a huge part of it.
[00:43:01]  So And for your viewers, when I was in the FBI, I worked with individuals, two in particular, that did very dangerous things.
[00:43:12]  And I traveled overseas with them to a point because they were able to go to places I could not go.
[00:43:18]  They were able to go into al-Qaeda safe houses.
[00:43:23]  They were able to identify weapons caches and places where large sums of money were.
[00:43:31]  individuals that were high-value targets that we were able to take that information and either capture or kill these individuals.
[00:43:40]  And someone would say, well, John, so not all Muslims are bad, and yet you sound like you're saying they're all bad.
[00:43:50]  First of all, I'm not making a judgment on the individual.
[00:43:54]  I'm saying that Islam itself is evil and barbaric and has no place in civilized society.
[00:44:01]  And I think that's a very easily attainable fact if you read a textbook used to teach 10-year-old Muslim children in the United States about Islam.
[00:44:11]  It's barbaric.
[00:44:13]  And then when you read normative Islamic law that's published in English and you can buy a copy of it and read it, it's barbaric.
[00:44:22]  Humans that are Muslim may follow it to some degree or other.
[00:44:28]  But when we see al-Qaeda doing what they do, when you see formerly the Islamic State, formerly ISIS setting fire to our Jordanian pilot in a cage, or you see Hamas raping and burning babies, setting them on fire, that's lawful in Islam.
[00:44:50]  And there's no version of Islam where it's not lawful.
[00:44:54]  And so we need to understand that because that's not radical.
[00:45:01]  That's not extreme Islam.
[00:45:03]  That's normative, everyday, mainstream Islam.
[00:45:06]  And as, you know, there's a video that I use in my training.
[00:45:10]  And if I'm not mistaken, it's from 2012 or 13 from the Islamic, it's the Norway Peace Conference of Muslims.
[00:45:22]  And the speaker says, you know, just because we're not telling you about it, just because we're not out in the media saying it, doesn't mean that all Muslims don't understand and agree with this.
[00:45:34]  And what he's talking about at the time is the punishments of Sharia and that imposing Allah's law and the example of Muhammad is that's what Islam is all about.
[00:45:47]  So that, I think, when you take all this together, there may be people who self-identify as Muslim that don't want that, but their belief system doesn't constitute a different version of Islam.

=== Defeating Common Enemy (12:10) ===

[00:46:02]  John, we've heard about the Red-Green Alliance, and you describe the way in which there was a systematic communist infiltration in America.
[00:46:17]  A lot of the full extent of this has been disclosed by Soviet defectors and the opening up of Soviet archives at the end of the Cold War.
[00:46:27]  You realize the kind of full-scale operation that was going on from the communist side.
[00:46:36]  Are you saying in effect that that operation, which many people thought was finished at the end of the Cold War, that threat was done, has lived on in the red part of the Red-Green alliance, and that the Reds and the Greens have now kind of understood that they have a common goal.
[00:46:59]  They may not have a common destination or end point.
[00:47:03]  At some hypothetical future date, if they win, they might have to take each other on.
[00:47:09]  But in the meantime, they are close allies that work together on many, if not all, fronts against a common enemy.
[00:47:21]  Is that a correct kind of description of what is going on?
[00:47:26]  And do the two sides, the red and the green, understand each other.
[00:47:31]  So this is a great, first of all, your summation, I think, is right on the mark.
[00:47:36]  And to answer the question about how they operate together, yes.
[00:47:41]  I mean, at the ground level across the United States, and this applies to Europe and Canada and everywhere else.
[00:47:47]  But in the United States, the communists, the Red, the Islamic movement, the green, they operate seamlessly.
[00:47:56]  So you have a Communist Party, USA, Democratic Socialist, Black Lives Matter formed out of the largest Chinese Communist Front group in America, Antifa, the Green Party, Code Pink, RevCom,
[00:48:12]  Rise and Resist, all these groups, the World Workers Party, at the ground level, working with the largest Islamic organizations in the United States, Islamic Society in North America, Muslim Students Association, Muslim American Society, Council on American Islamic Relations, all of these groups, and many new groups that have been formed in the last several years, Students for Justice in Palestine,
[00:48:41]  American Muslims for Palestine, M-Gage.
[00:48:46]  There are so many of them.
[00:48:47]  We can't even keep up there creating them every month.
[00:48:51]  But they're working seamlessly at the ground level.
[00:48:54]  And to your point, their common purpose is to destroy the United States.
[00:49:00]  Because these hostile movements understand the United States is the beacon on the hill.
[00:49:09]  It's the fount or certainly has been the point of truth and liberty for, well, 250 years in the world.
[00:49:24]  You know, America, without going tangential too much, is created with an idea that was not put into a governmental form ever in the history of mankind before the United States, where, you know, we had monarchs for the history of mankind ruling humans.
[00:49:49]  And the United States is created with an understanding that human beings are born with inalienable rights that come from our Creator.
[00:49:59]  And our founders said we're going to build a government that recognizes that.
[00:50:05]  And the government's primary role is to secure those liberties for the people of the United States.
[00:50:12]  And for the first time in history, we had a revolution against a great power that we certainly should have never defeated.
[00:50:19]  We did.
[00:50:20]  And the leaders of the revolution handed the power back to the people.
[00:50:25]  Again, first time in world history that ever happened.
[00:50:29]  So these evil elements, these evil movements, which come in many forms, the secular humanist movement, these globalists, you can call them what they want, but where the rubber meets the road, it's the communists and jihadis getting the work done in anywhere USA.
[00:50:47]  And they're winning.
[00:50:49]  They're winning significantly.
[00:50:51]  And we still have people asleep at the wheel who do not understand or don't seem to want to understand the breadth of this threat, the immediate threat to their families and communities.
[00:51:05]  Why do you think, John, that on the right, and you mentioned the state of Texas as being a kind of maybe a ground zero currently for Muslim Brotherhood operations, but why is the right so blind?
[00:51:27]  Excuse me, John, I'm about to sneeze, so give me just a second and we'll just pick it right up.
[00:51:32]  Okay.
[00:51:39]  Okay, I'm good.
[00:51:43]  John, it seems that on the right, there is a great reluctance to take the full measure of the threat as you have described it.
[00:51:56]  There's a great desire to make some sort of accommodation.
[00:52:00]  Part of this may just be the human sense: you know, we don't want to go to war with two bullion Muslims, or it may be that, guess what?
[00:52:08]  We just got a lot of Muslims here in Texas, and we as state representatives have to campaign for their votes the same way we campaign for everybody else's votes.
[00:52:19]  Is all of this kind of normal politics and an attempt to sort of just draw Muslims into it the same as every other group?
[00:52:28]  Hey, the Irish came, the Italians, the Jews, and so on.
[00:52:32]  And so we find it very difficult to recognize that Islam is, as you insist, a separate category.
[00:52:44]  So, yes, I'm grateful for that kind of lead-in because I think that's correct.
[00:52:50]  I think human nature, and especially the American culture, you know, America believes at least our founding principles, right?
[00:53:01]  The liberty that we have.
[00:53:03]  Now, liberty comes with responsibility, but I'll save that for a different piece of the conversation.
[00:53:09]  But we are free to live as we choose so long as what we do doesn't negatively impact on our neighbor.
[00:53:18]  And we believe, love God, love neighbor, even love our enemies.
[00:53:23]  But I think along the way, because of the communist movement that you talked about, because of their efforts, which we now know much of the full breadth of, that they penetrated beginning in the 1930s, the education system, the universities, the government.
[00:53:47]  I mean, even during the Roosevelt administration, we had a number of high-level government officials that were agents of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union and elsewhere.
[00:53:59]  So we know all this now.
[00:54:03]  So Americans have come to think of this in a way that's very different from reality.
[00:54:11]  My colleague Steve Coglin calls it the pseudo-reality.
[00:54:15]  And when we live in the pseudo-reality, we don't understand things as they actually are.
[00:54:21]  That's the first problem.
[00:54:23]  I think the overriding, not necessarily a problem, the issue that has to be tackled is I think for the most part, you know, real patriotically minded, constitutionally-minded Americans are good people.
[00:54:38]  They're good-hearted, good-natured people.
[00:54:42]  And for the most part, they want to be able to raise their children the way they want.
[00:54:48]  They want to live the way they want.
[00:54:50]  They want to be free to do the things they want to do.
[00:54:54]  And they assume that others that come here want to do the same.
[00:54:59]  Well, that's a not, when it comes to Islam, that's not a correct assumption.
[00:55:04]  And I would say, you know, you just mentioned something.
[00:55:07]  You know, I'm insisting that it's different.
[00:55:10]  I would say if you just listen to the leaders of Islam, if you read the textbooks that are used to teach their children, it's very clear what their purpose is.
[00:55:24]  It's not to coexist.
[00:55:26]  It's not to come into America and integrate into our community.
[00:55:31]  It's to, as I heard a Muslim leader in the UK say in 2009, when I was there for a conference that I was invited to, we're here to coexist only until Islam dominates and takes over.
[00:55:47]  And that's what they're doing.
[00:55:48]  And now they're being very clear about it.
[00:55:51]  So I think that's all of these things, our human nature, our American culture, the way that the Islamic leadership has really created this facade of who they are that's not reality.
[00:56:08]  I think when you put those things and other things together, it's what's got us here and why people are not responding in the way that they should.
[00:56:17]  And the other piece I think, you know, as a combat veteran and as a warrior, I've read a lot of books on combat and warfighting and historical battles.
[00:56:30]  And one of the things that is immediately evident is human nature opposes squeezing the trigger to take another person's life.
[00:56:42]  And so I think when people come to realize how dark and how bad and imminent the danger is, I would say I just had a conversation with someone.
[00:56:53]  I won't share their name, but they're definitely a global leader in the kind of patriot movement against Islam.
[00:57:02]  Human nature, I mean, when people come to see how bad things actually are, I would say 30 to 40%, and the number may be higher, of people just kind of shut down because they just cannot comprehend it and they don't want to deal with it.
[00:57:18]  And I have no, I don't speak negatively about those people.
[00:57:22]  I get it.
[00:57:23]  Some of us are built to have these conversations.
[00:57:26]  Some of us are built to oppose and go to battle against these enemies of liberty.
[00:57:32]  But that's also a big part of this, why a lot of people aren't dealing with it because they don't have the wherewithal to do so.
[00:57:42]  So my new book, The Campaign Plan for Victory, is all about what citizens can do to actually rid their communities of these enemies of liberty.
[00:57:56]  And it's the third in a trilogy, Raising a Jihadi Generation.
[00:58:01]  It's all about the Islamic movement in the United States.
[00:58:04]  Islam's Deception, The Truth About Sharia is all about Sharia and why you need to know it to understand the enemy.
[00:58:10]  And this is how to defeat the enemy.

=== Campaign Plan for Victory (04:44) ===

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[00:58:21]  And so I just want to say, Dinesh, thanks for having me.
[00:58:24]  Really appreciate being on.
[00:58:26]  God bless you.
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[00:59:30]  I started out as a journalist writing articles for National Review, the American Spectator, The Washington Post, lots of places.
[00:59:37]  After my stint in the Reagan White House, I pivoted to writing books, and that was way back in 1991.
[00:59:43]  So I've been mainly known as an author and, of course, later as a filmmaker.
[00:59:47]  But my first job, journalist, and now I'm getting back to that.
[00:59:51]  On Substack, you'll get original articles and commentary, groundbreaking investigations, exclusive access to film clips and show clips.
[01:00:00]  And guess what?
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[01:00:03]  Go to Dinesh DeSouza.substack.com.
[01:00:12]  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon.
[01:00:16]  Revelation 12 3.
[01:00:18]  Once again an armed attack in the Middle East, but this time it's different.
[01:00:39]  October 7th was the devil's holiday.
[01:00:45]  It's very hard to believe what happened, even though I was there and seen with my own eyes and seen them laughing and killing and having fun with it.
[01:00:53]  Because if you don't open the door, they are going to kill you and they are going to kill me.
[01:00:57]  So please open the door.
[01:01:03]  So who are the Jews?
[01:01:05]  Who are the Palestinians?
[01:01:07]  And whose land is it really?
[01:01:11]  Could the fate of the world, of humanity itself, be somehow tied to this place?
[01:01:18]  The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation.
[01:01:21]  So what if there was going to be a resurrection of another people, an enemy people of Israel?
[01:01:29]  The Bible speaks about this whole war as a dragon representing the enemy attacking a woman representing Israel.
[01:01:37]  The civilian deaths on both sides represent victories on the part of the dragon.
[01:01:43]  Mastered everything within their ability to maximize the civilian casualty.
[01:01:48]  We came back to a land that was largely barren and empty, and we brought it back to life and we're going to keep it.
[01:01:55]  The devil hates the Jewish people because they represent the existence of God.
[01:02:01]  Because without that Jewish foundation, there is no Christianity.
[01:02:05]  If we're approaching the end of time, God will reveal Himself more and more dramatically.
[01:02:13]  Speak back through the stones.
[01:02:15]  The story that they've been telling is that Israel is a colonial project.
[01:02:19]  The problem with that is the city of David.
[01:02:22]  We are an inconvenient truth.
[01:02:25]  Are you aware of any significant archaeological finding that contradicts the Bible?
[01:02:32]  Nope.
[01:02:33]  God's word stands firm.
[01:02:39]  The dragon will not prevail.
[01:02:44]  Your message here is become a dragon slayer.
[01:02:50]  Based on Jonathan Kahn's number one international bestseller, The Dragon's Prophecy, this film contains graphic violence To October 7th.