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Nov. 5, 2025 - Dinesh D'Souza
58:32
HUMAN VICTORY ARCH Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep1205
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Is the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians the revival of an ancient conflict recorded in the Bible?
The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation.
What if there was going to be a resurrection of another people, an enemy people of Israel?
The dragon's prophecy.
Watch it now or buy the DVD at thedragonsprophecyfilm.com.
Coming up, there is now a human victory arch, an Islamic victory arch looming over New York City.
And I'll talk about the implications.
I'll also talk about what kind of MAGA do we need in order to win in elections in the future.
And documentary filmmaker and missionary Judd Saul joins me.
We're going to talk about the persecution of Christians in Nigeria.
Very important.
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Really appreciate it.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
The times are crazy.
In a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'ASouza podcast.
All right, New York, you asked for it, and, well, you're going to get it.
And what are you going to get?
Well, as a consequence of electing Zorhan Mamdani, you are going to get New Yorkistan.
And what is New Yorkistan?
Well, we can understand New Yorkistan a little bit better if we consider its predecessor, which is Londonistan.
Londonistan is the product of a Muslim mayor, Sadiq Khan, a guy who is in many ways like Mamdani, a cultural leftist who is also an Islamist.
And yet, this is a guy who achieved political success by uniting the cosmopolitan left, the pro-socialist left, the LGBTQ left in London, together with an increasingly growing Muslim population.
And that was the secret sauce.
That was the formula that got him to victory and kept him in office.
And now, if you go to London, there are parts of London where you are reminded of the old London.
But if you look at what London looked like, for example, 30 years ago or 50 years ago, that London is really gone.
And not only is it gone, it's not coming back.
So London has tipped over.
I'm referring here to a book published by Malcolm Gladwell a few years ago called The Tipping Point.
The logic of that book is that at a certain critical stage, things tip over, the balance tips over.
And so we've reached that point in London.
And now you have zones in London where Londoners can't go.
There are no go zones.
Cops stay out of it.
You have rapes in London where you can't really protest because very often you're protesting to either a Muslim authority or to a political authority that does not want to offend the Muslim community.
And so the rape is going to go uninvestigated.
They'll pretend like it wasn't really a rape, or they will look the other way or begin an investigation that goes nowhere.
And this is a recipe.
I've called it before.
Other people have called it the Red-Green Alliance that I think represents a formula on the part of the left to win, to win ultimately everywhere.
Now, by everywhere, I mean in cities everywhere, because it's in cities that you have the populations large enough, that the cultural left is strong enough, and the Muslims are numerous enough, that combining the two forces together, you get a powerful political juggernaut.
Now, that juggernaut still has to get ordinary members of the Labour Party, ordinary Democrats, to vote for it.
But it does this by kind of disguising its agenda.
And now we come to how Mamdani, very skillfully, by the way, did do that.
We see it even in the way that Mamdani, for example, plays Bollywood music at his victory celebration.
This is a way of Mamdani diverting attention.
I'm not so much of a Muslim, I'm an Indian.
And so Indians, Hindus, for example, should be very comfortable with me because I'm one of you.
So with Mamdani, what you have is a fluid identity.
We saw it earlier with Obama, but with Obama, he was basically moving fluidly between black and white.
One day he's black, one day he's white.
He adjusts his tone depending on who he's talking to.
And with Mamdani, it's the same script, but played in a more diverse way.
It's almost like Obama is playing an instrument that is in two keys, and Mamdani is playing an instrument that's in five keys.
W has called Mamdani a human victory arch.
And one could say that a human victory arch, a victory arch of Islam, by the way, now looms over New York City.
And it cannot be insignificant that this is happening a quarter century after 9-11.
It represents a complete turnaround, a complete takeover, a complete submission of the city to really some of the same forces that sought to destroy the city a quarter century ago.
Now, of course, Mamdani will disavow any connection with 9-11.
And yet, we're not going to forget very easily, are we, the image of Mamdani with the guy who in 93 was involved in the attempt to blow up the World Trade Center.
This, of course, was a kind of early rehearsal, early version of what later happened in 9-11.
Now, there were some other important races going on also, and the Republicans lost them all.
They lost in New York, they lost in New Jersey, where Chiadarelli lost to Cheryl, and they also lost the governor's race in Virginia, where Winsom Sears, who's been on this podcast, lost to Abigail Spanberger.
Now, there are a couple of reasons one can attribute for the loss.
One is that the candidates in general were not so much MAGA as they came out of the more established mint wing of the Republican Party.
That's actually true of Winsom Sears.
It's also true of Chiadarelli.
The second reason is Trump.
Trump is the guy who figured out how MAGA can win, and Trump is not on the ballot.
Apparently, some kind of low-propensity voter has decided: well, I'm just going to stay home.
I'm not going to bother.
I'm going to wait this one out.
And that shows you the fact that a lot of the Republican Party's appeal is the magnetic appeal of one man, Trump.
But I want to argue that it's not just Trump.
It is the type of MAGA that Trump represents.
It's the type of coalition that Trump represents.
And that coalition, by and large, is a coalition that refuses to, it's a coalition that recognizes the importance of a multiracial winning formula.
Trump is based on the idea that white people should not be sidelined.
There should not be this kind of acceptable bigotry toward whites.
We need to get rid of affirmative action and we need to embrace the colorblind formula.
But at the same time, we welcome Jews, we welcome blacks, conservative blacks, we welcome conservative Latinos, we like conservative immigrants who want to assimilate.
This is the way we win.
And this formula has been fiercely challenged and contested by now a wing of the MAGA right that says we have a lot of young people who hate blacks and hate Jews and don't exactly like Indians either.
And these are people who are very restless and they want a new Republican Party that caters to them.
Let's call it a kind of white identitarian party.
Let's call it a party.
But it's a party that also uses the name and the language of America First.
And so the issue here is not America first.
Yes, we are America First.
It is which America first?
Is it Trump's America first or Nick Fuentes' America first?
Is it the America First that won the 2024 election?
And by the way, quite honestly, the 2020 election and the 2016 election?
Or is it the identitarian America that it seems is being pushed by a coalition that includes Tucker, it includes Fuentes, it includes Candace Owens, it includes Bannon and maybe Matt Gates and Marjorie Taylor Greene, who, by the way, is enjoying a strange new respect on the left.
Very interestingly, she's now appearing on left-wing shows.
She was just most recently on The View before that Bill Maher.
And you begin to wonder, why does the left like Marjorie Taylor Greene?
The answer is they really don't, but they love the fact that she is fracturing the MAGA coalition.
Why do they like Nick Fuentes?
The New York Times just did a kind of adoring portrait of Nick Fuentes where he looks like James Dean, you know, kind of a rebel, kind of a cool cat.
Why are they doing that?
Because they like Nick Fuentes.
They like what he says about blacks and Jews?
No.
The reason they're doing that is they want to use Nick and Nick's followers as a battering ram against Trump.
That's really what's going on here.
So, one of the lessons, and you know, there are people now proposing, well, why is the right fighting?
It's all this infighting is distracting us from trying to figure out how we should win elections and getting out the vote.
Wait a minute.
Has Tucker been getting out the vote?
Did he do any interviews with Jack Giaddarelli?
No.
Has Candace been getting out the vote?
No.
Candace says she herself is not going to vote until, quote, they solve Charlie Kirk's murder.
So that's where this woman is.
Is Nick Fuentes getting out the vote?
No, Nick Fuentes just made a video today, this morning, where he's celebrating the MAGA defeats.
This guy doesn't even like Trump.
Candace doesn't like Trump.
Tucker, if you look at his private communications, doesn't like Trump.
So are we going to actually build the new GOP on three people who dislike Trump and want to take the America first movement in a non-Trumpian direction?
We can do that.
But if we do that, it seems to me, we have an unelectable MAGA.
We have an unelectable GOP.
So forget about the fact that we are breaking the party away from its roots in Abraham Lincoln, from its roots in people like Reagan.
Leave aside the fact that we are even breaking the connection with Trump in the name of some imaginary future Republican Party supposedly led by JD Vance that will march in a different direction, but in my view, march right off the precipice.
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Why is that?
Because the U.S. government, through the Fed, is constantly printing money.
So when the government prints money, there's more money around chasing the same amount of goods and services.
So money goes down in value.
Money buys less.
The Fed has been at this since 1913.
And that's why a dollar today can only buy what a few cents could buy in 1913.
And the government continues to print oceans of money.
It never stops.
An ounce of gold reached a high of $850 in 1980.
Today, it's worth around $4,000 an ounce.
So historically, over time, gold, over time, goes up and up in value, and dollars go down and down in purchasing power.
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Gold is up again around 40%.
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I want to talk about Nigeria and the persecution and the killing of Christians in Nigeria.
Now, this is not the only place Christians are being persecuted.
It's happening in other parts of Africa, notably in the Sudan.
But finally, people are paying some attention to Nigeria.
I am about to have in the next segment a missionary who is involved in Nigeria to come on and talk about what's happening on the ground over there and why.
But here, what I want to focus on is a couple of other things related to Nigeria, a place where, by the way, a lot of churches have been destroyed and burned, and a large number of Christians, they say about 100,000 over a number of years.
I might get new data from my guests shortly, but it's a big number.
Lots of churches, lots of people.
Now, one of the things that is mentioned in the dragon's prophecy is that in the end times, you will see a resurgence of hostility, hatred, and war.
War that is waged by the dragon, by the devil himself, against two groups.
The first group is the Jews, the Israelites, if you will.
And the other group is the Christians, otherwise known as the spiritual Israelites.
This is Jonathan Kahn's phrase, but he's getting it right out of the Bible.
And the image itself from Revelation 12 of the dragon's prophecy involves a dragon, the devil, going to war against a woman representing Israel, who is pregnant, representing the Messiah, representing Christianity.
So there it is in one single image.
That's the title of our movie.
And we have seen the war against Israel, October 7th, terrorist actions, one on top of another.
And the hostility continues, I think, largely unabated, peace plan or no peace plan.
And to some degree, it's a worldwide hostility, isn't it?
And similarly, against the Christians.
There's a worldwide hostility.
There's a lot of hostility to Christianity in the West, in Canada, in Europe, in America.
And yet there is also the actual beheading of Christians.
And all of this, the Bible points to as one indication.
It's a signpost.
And signposts are all that we can be kind of alert about.
And there it is.
We see it.
The Bible's prediction is kind of corroborated.
Now, here's Trump.
He says: if the Nigerian government continues to allow the killing of Christians, the USA will stop all aid and may very well go into that disgraced country, quote, guns ablazing.
This is a way of telling you that Trump is not an isolationist.
He never was.
He is a believer that force can and sometimes must be used in foreign affairs.
So, some people think: well, why is Trump getting involved in Israel?
Is it because he cares more about Israel?
After all, Trump campaigned on no more wars.
Well, it's one thing to have a full-scale war.
It's another thing to engage in military action.
Trump has shown in his military action against al-Baghdadi, against Solemani, and now his willingness to use force if needed in Nigeria.
It's not inconsistent to try to stop a war.
Trump is trying to stop the war.
In fact, he has, for the most part, stopped the war in Gaza.
But at the same time, Trump is willing to use force.
So let's recognize that Trump's MAGA, Trump's America First, is more in the Reaganite tradition of prudential realism than it is in some hands-off, let's not get involved.
If we get involved, it's going to be World War III in two weeks.
Trump is not a member of that school.
Now, Tucker Carlson, in his most recent newsletter, which I have in front of me, he writes as follows: Donald Trump threatened to immediately stop all aid and assistance to Nigeria.
And then he goes on to say that Trump is even willing to use force and that Muslim extremists have reportedly slaughtered thousands of Nigerian Christians.
And you might expect that Tucker is about to go on to say this is something that is appalling.
Christians in America need to make common cause with Christians in Nigeria.
This is not where he goes at all.
This is where he goes.
So how come Mark Levin would label him an anti-Jewish racist if he made the exact same statement about Israel?
So evidently Trump, according to Tucker Carlson, he would like to see Trump say that he's going to go into Israel and blow up the Israelis' guns ablazing.
He's denouncing, he wants Trump to denounce the government of Israel.
He's saying that if Trump did that, then Mark Levin would call Trump an anti-Semite.
He'd call Trump an anti-Jewish racist.
And Tucker goes on, isn't that a weird double standard?
This may be hard for Levin and his ethno-narcissist caucus to accept, but criticism of their beloved country has nothing to do with Judaism.
Just like Trump's statement on Nigeria is not an attack on blacks.
So this to me is deeply disingenuous.
Why?
For the simple reason that there is no comparison at all between what is going on in Nigeria and what has been going on in Israel.
The Islamic radicals in Nigeria are targeting and deliberately slaughtering Christians.
They're lining them up and they are chopping their heads off.
They are creating mass graves and telling people to jump in them or dig their own grave and then lie down in it.
All of this is going on and going on at scale.
It involves, as I mentioned, thousands of churches.
It involves perhaps 100,000 people, certainly tens of thousands of people beyond a doubt.
So here's my question: How many churches has Israel blown up?
There was a big report during the war over the past years that a single church had been accidentally struck by Israel.
Now, some people say, it wasn't an accident, but Israel apparently was hitting a Gaza terrorist and they hit a church and they immediately apologized for it.
I'm sure that church is in the process, even as we speak of being rebuilt.
I won't be surprised if the Israeli government is involved in that project.
We've certainly been to Israel and innumerable churches around Israel, which are not only allowed, they're actually protected by the Israeli government.
So, this idea that Israel is blowing up churches is completely false.
What about the idea that Israel is killing Christians?
It's certainly not killing Christians in Israel.
Now, there is a war in Gaza, and in all wars, civilians get killed.
So, if, and there are some Christians, by the way, in Gaza, not a great number, Gaza is mainly made up of Muslims.
But if you're hitting Hamas targets, you're going to find that there are civilian casualties, and some of them will inevitably be Christian casualties.
How many?
How does the Christian casualty count in Gaza?
Which I've never frankly seen a number, certainly not an honest number.
How does that compare with the Christian casualty count, say, in Nigeria?
So, what I'm getting at here with Tucker in his characteristically slippery way, he doesn't make the analogy, he doesn't pursue it, he doesn't make an argument of any kind.
Rather, what he's doing here is essentially using the anti-Christian persecution in Nigeria to turn around and hit his favorite target, which is the Jews and Israel, by making a completely false equation between the two.
Now, this is, I think, in the broad, an effort to redefine MAGA.
That's really what this is all about.
I don't think in the end it is about some personal motive.
Tucker is getting paid.
He may or may not be getting paid, but I don't think that's why he's doing it.
I don't think it is that Tucker doesn't understand.
We need to explain to Tucker what's really going on.
Tucker's been around just like me for 30 years.
Tucker has a fairly good grasp of what is happening in the world.
But Tucker has a new obsession.
It's not my obsession, but it is his obsession.
And you can tell that because now, in his show, in his newsletter, he can start out on just about any topic.
It could be tariffs, it could be illegal immigration, it could be Christians in Nigeria.
Every topic circles back to the Jews.
It's the Jews, the Jews, and the Jews all over again.
And then Tucker's allies, like Fuentes, don't just like Jews, don't just dislike Jews.
They dislike a lot of other people.
They hate Vivek Ramaswamy.
They want him to move back to India.
They want me to move back to India.
They want Debbie to move back to Venezuela.
They hate immigrants, legal and illegal.
And really, for the first time now, in our social media feeds, they're full of people heaping, you could call it ethnic abuse.
Now, it's part of my personality that I find all of this ridiculous.
I pay very little attention to it, but not everybody's like this.
The Indian community, by the way, in New Jersey, which voted heavily pro-Trump in 2024, voted heavily against the Republican Party, the same people, just several months later, just now in the election between Chiatarelli and Cheryl.
They voted for Cheryl.
They voted for the Democrat, which is another way of saying that they are being chased out of MAGA.
They are being driven out of the Republican Party by this nefarious wing of MAGA that does nothing more, Does not stop from abusing, publicly abusing anyone that doesn't fit their kind of white identitarian brand.
So, this, it seems to me, is a very bad way for MAGA to go.
I don't think MAGA is going that way.
I'm actually very proud that the mainstream of the Republican Party, and I'm talking about just about every major figure, every major institution, with the only exception of the Heritage Foundation, which is, by the way, itself now under severe sort of moral siege, internal upheaval.
The Board of Trustees is getting involved.
So, Heritage decided to kind of go Groyper on us under the idiotic idea: we need to have some more groipers coming over to our conferences.
This is apparently what Kevin Roberts is going for.
Yeah, we'll drive away, we'll drive away all the immigrants, we'll kick out all the blacks, we'll kick out all the Jews, we'll kick out all the Latinos, just as long as we can have some like, you know, 20-something groipers who hate blacks, hate Jews, and hate.
We have to speak to them.
We really have to speak to them.
They're really vital to the future of the GOP.
So, this evidently is the psychology of the Heritage Foundation, or at least of the head of the Heritage Foundation.
And Heritage, I think, needs a little bit of a correction course here because we need a MAGA that stands on the historical and moral ground of the Republican Party, and we need a MAGA that can win.
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Guys, I've already introduced the topic of Christian persecution, the persecution of Christians in Nigeria.
But now we have with us a man who can tell us a lot more about this topic.
It's Judd Saul, and he is an award-winning documentary filmmaker.
He's an entrepreneur.
He's a missionary.
He's a family man.
And he embarked on a call to action in Nigeria going all the way back to 2011.
So he and his wife Sherry, they have five children.
They have been involved in this now for over a decade.
And their experience in Nigeria has really changed their life.
By the way, the website equippingthepersecuted.org, equippingthepersecuted.org.
Judd Saul, welcome to the podcast, and thank you for joining me.
I've got to say, you must be, I don't know if relieved is the right word, but this is a topic that is so important.
And yet it is one that has been out of the public limelight for so long.
And now, finally, belatedly, people are paying some attention to it.
I'm sure you think it is about time, don't you?
Oh, my Dinesh.
When I first heard Trump say that, I about fell out of my chair.
I couldn't believe it.
None of us expected to see or saw that coming.
We've been working for so many years trying to get the U.S. government to acknowledge what is going on in Nigeria.
And kind of without warning, it just happened.
And we're like, wow, this has really shifted things for us.
And I couldn't be more happy with what President Trump has done.
Judd, let's go back to how you got to Nigeria in the first place, because I'd like to hear a little bit of your own story.
And then we can talk more specifically about what's happening on the ground over there.
It sounds like you are an all-American guy.
Something drew you to Nigeria.
What was that?
Well, I had just had my wake-up call with God in 2009, came back to the faith.
I had left the faith for about a decade.
And I came back in 2009 and I just said, Lord, do with me what you will.
And then shortly after that, my grandfather, who's a lay evangelist, not a pastor, had been going to Nigeria for years working with a mission, sharing the gospel, and teaching people how to evangelize.
And I saw a need for that mission to kind of help get the word out about what they were doing.
And it just, the Lord laid it on my heart, said, You need to go to Nigeria.
And so I went to my grandfather.
I said, Hey, I think I'm supposed to help you guys out.
And that's what took me there in 2011.
And I've been serving, going to Nigeria every year since.
All right.
So let's learn a little bit more about Nigeria.
Is it the case that in Nigeria, as in other countries in Africa, you really have two major religious groups, namely Christians and Muslims?
And in different countries, they are in varying percentages, but in a fair number of countries, they are roughly evenly balanced in population.
And there is a great deal of tension and aggression.
The aggression coming from the Islamic side.
This is a very broad-brushed portrait, but is it generally accurate?
And is it also what is happening in Nigeria?
That's exactly what is happening in Nigeria.
And I'm glad you said that, because what we're seeing is in Nigeria, it's just a real life jihad taking place where the clash has finally reached a tipping point where it used to be 70% Christian population versus Muslim 30% population.
And what you're seeing is they've gained ground and political ground over the last 30 years.
And now it's the tipping point.
Typically, what you see when you see Islamic conquest, they have the political power now.
And that's what's laying cover for the killing and the genocide in Nigeria.
But the same thing is taking place in different aspects all over Northern Africa.
And is it the case, Judd?
I mean, do both sides field armies?
Do both sides have people who are shooting again the other side?
Is this a war between two groups?
Or is the aggression coming from one side and the other side is on the receiving end?
Certainly the images that we've seen in some of the videos that I've seen, it looks like the Christians are more like lambs to the slaughter.
I mean, it looks like they are being preyed upon by these Islamic jihadis and they are not responding in kind.
I mean, are there any Christian terrorist groups striking to the Islamic community?
No, no.
In fact, it's the direct opposite.
So Nigeria is a country that doesn't have a Second Amendment.
And so citizens aren't allowed to defend themselves.
However, you have the Fulani ethnic militia, which is a radical Islamic tribe in Nigeria, running around the country unimpeded with AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenade launchers.
And they systematically, I call it death by a thousand attacks, take out one village after little village after little village after little village over time.
And the Nigerian military, in turn, has been punishing the Christian citizens that have been trying to arm themselves just to defend themselves.
Like right before an attack, we have many instances where the Nigerian government has come in, disarmed the people.
Two days later, they get attacked by the Fulani terrorists.
So there is obvious government complicity going on here.
So is it fair to say then that the Nigerian government is on the side of the Islamic radicals?
I mean, when you said, when you mentioned a little while ago that they have reached a certain level of political power, I think what you were talking about is that there now is a symbiotic connection between some of these jihadi groups on the one hand and at least elements of the regime on the other.
So Trump was completely right to call out the government and say, you need to fix this problem.
Otherwise, we might have to get involved.
Well, yes.
Dinesh, we created a website called truthnigeria.com where we are letting the people know what's going on.
But we have staff on the ground in Nigeria that are documenting and reporting the attacks.
Now, something unique happened that we started doing this in 2024.
We've issued over 100 terror alerts since 2024 with 89% accuracy.
And in 90% of that 89%, the government responded and did nothing.
So we notified the government well within days, 24 hours of when attacks were going to occur.
And we have it broken down in a report that the Nigerian government didn't respond until after the attacks happened when they had warnings.
And there is case after case after case of this all throughout the middle belt of Nigeria where we know the government knew that they were going to attack and they stood down and did nothing.
Judd, I saw an article and I was immediately suspicious of it because of the source.
The source is Al Jazeera, so we need to be on our guard.
But the theme of the article was as follows.
There is no Christian persecution going on in Nigeria.
What you have rather is an economic contest between two groups of people.
You have the farmers who are on the one hand and the herders who are on the other.
So it's almost like you've got the stationary people who are into farming and the nomadic people who are the herders with flocks.
And there's some natural tensions between these two groups.
And this is being misinterpreted as religious persecution.
I had a feeling that I was reading propaganda, but I thought I would try it out on you and have you explain why this is nonsensical.
Well, with any lie, there's a bit of a half-truth to get people.
Well, yeah, there are farmers and herders, and the Fulani are typically a herding community.
But what they fail to realize is and really talk about is: okay, why are the Fulani going into towns where there are no farms and burning churches and killing priests that have nothing to do with farming?
Why are they continuing to eradicate entire Christian communities that have nothing to do with farming?
So, yeah, there are farmers and herders, but that is just a half-truth to cover up the lie.
And the reality is, is that they are planning.
They're planning these attacks.
They're planning these attacks.
They meet in mosques to plan out these attacks against Christians.
And you don't see entire Muslim communities being wiped out.
You don't see mosques being destroyed in these communities.
There are plenty of Muslims that do farming.
Their farms aren't getting destroyed.
It just happens to be Christian only.
So the Nigerian government, Dinesh, I'll just explain this real quick: is the way news comes out of Nigeria typically is the Nigerian government holds a press conference.
The Nigerian government pays the journalists to come up, to come report what the government says.
Then the official narrative that makes it to the mainstream media is always through Al Jazeera.
So if you look at every article that hits mainstream media regarding Nigeria, it starts at Al Jazeera and then it goes to the AP and then broadcasts to the rest of the media across the world.
So the filter for every story coming out of Nigeria starts at Al Jazeera.
And they clearly have a pro-Islam bias and they always throw Christians under the bus.
Several years ago, I was looking at the fate of Christianity around the world and comparing it to some of the other religions.
And I noticed that there was a good bit of data that was suggesting that Christianity and Islam have both been growing worldwide, but in different ways.
Christianity grows by and large through conversion.
The Muslims don't really have the ability to do that.
And so they rely on reproduction and conquest.
So they have a lot of kids.
That's one way they grow.
And the other way they grow is by trying to smash other people and establish their hegemony over them.
Is it right that that is exactly what is playing out in Nigeria, as in fact, it plays out in other places as well?
It's Islam Conquest 101.
Dinesh, I have talked to so many survivors of these attacks, and they all share the same story.
They share the same story with they moved in, our kids played together, we did business together.
And then the one day came where all of a sudden they disappeared and then the attacks occurred and they killed as many people as they could.
And they even witnessed and saw their own neighbors coming in with the radical Islamists to kill in their own villages.
And they actually have a saying.
They actually have a saying for Christians.
They say, treat the Christian like a pet chicken.
You feed it, you grow it, you take care of it, love it until it's time to chop off its head.
That's actually a saying that they have in Nigeria regarding Christians.
The Flani have that saying.
And it is how Islam has conquered every civilization since 640 AD.
Grow, populate, cultural jihad, then they get the politics, and then the killing starts.
And that is exactly what's happening here in Nigeria.
And they have peppered their way throughout the entire apparatus of the Nigerian government and security structure.
I mean, it almost tells me, Judd, that we are seeing in Nigeria something that, you know, some Americans, again, and I've even seen some people post on social media, like, what does this have to do with us?
What possible interests can we have over there?
But I think what you are identifying is a jihadi formula that is in some ways not limited to Nigeria.
The actual tactics of it may be flexible.
But if you look at the strategy, let's say in Australia or in Canada or in the United States, it is the chicken strategy, isn't it?
Because infiltration might have to, you know, if you come into a society as an outsider, you're going to have to be really well behaved.
You have to act like a guest.
But pretty soon you establish yourself.
Now you begin to gain strength.
Now you create a coalition of mosques.
You appeal to religious freedom while it's convenient.
So in other words, it seems to me that the U.S. strategy and the Nigeria strategy, they're different, but they're not all that different.
No, they're not all that different at all.
I mean, what we're seeing happening in Nigeria is 30 to 50 years away, what's going to happen in England.
It's 50 years away to what could happen in the United States if action isn't taking.
And so one of the things that we haven't talked about is when they take over a state, they declare Sharia law.
Once they impose Sharia law, anybody who is not with that is a second-class, third-class citizen.
And they are essentially slaves within their own country once they implement Sharia law.
If you're not with it, you're a slave within your own country.
And that is what they're doing to Christians in northern Nigeria.
Guys, I've been talking to Judd Saul.
This is extremely fascinating, disturbing, eye-opening stuff.
The website here is equippingthepersecuted.org.
And Judd, did you also mention another website you wanted people to look at?
I think you mentioned the terror alert website.
What is that?
TruthNigeria.com.
And we have journalists every day risking their lives on the ground to report what is happening.
And the Nigerian government really hates us right now.
Hey, Judd, a final question.
You know, there are things that we want and expect out of our government.
I, frankly, wouldn't mind seeing a SEAL team land in Nigeria to settle some accounts.
But let me ask you, what can ordinary citizens do?
If my viewers and listeners say, well, I wouldn't mind doing my little part to help.
Is there a way that we can help your efforts?
Is there a way that we can help these Christians in Nigeria?
What is that?
One, you can help by supporting our organization, equippingthepersecuted.org, partner with us today.
We're a boots on the ground mission that is dedicated to not only rendering humanitarian aid to those who've been persecuted, but we're actively working to do what we can to stop the persecution.
And then second, we need people to still continue to be engaged at the congressional level.
Call your congressman, call your senator, leave messages with the Trump administration and tell them to keep turning on the heat.
Keep the pressure on.
It is working.
I've gotten reports back from Nigeria and our friends out there that things are calming down a lot because the world is on them.
And I'm praying right now, Dinesh.
I know, and we have intel that they are planning to kill a lot of Christians over Christmas like they do every year.
And I'm praying that the pressure we're laying on the Nigerian government stops those killings and that Christians can actually celebrate Christmas without worrying having to get killed.
And that's what I'm praying for.
And Judge Saul Sorwee, thank you for joining me.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
God bless you, Dinash.
I'm continuing my discussion of life after death, and today we're going to learn something.
I don't know if you want to learn something about this, but you're going to learn something about Hinduism and Buddhism, and obviously about the perspectives of those two religions on life after death.
Now, I'm writing this as someone who has grown up in a Hindu culture, a Hindu environment, at least the first 17 years of my life.
I'm less familiar, to be honest, with Buddhism, because although Buddhism began in India, it never took root in India.
So, oddly enough, what happened over the centuries is that Buddhist students went from India to the Far East to places like Thailand and Malaysia, really as far as Japan and China.
They carried Buddhism with them, and Buddhism stayed and took root in those cultures and was over time dissipated or lost its force in its original land, namely India.
So, think about this: Judaism and Christianity have their birth in pretty much the same part of the world, which is Israel.
Islam has its birth in the Arabian desert, in the places called Mecca and Medina.
And then, Hinduism and Buddhism, and some other offshoots have their birth in India.
Now, the most influential Eastern doctrine of life after death comes from Hinduism.
And as we'll see in a moment, it was adapted by the Buddhists to their own purposes.
The founder of Buddhism, a guy named Gautama Buddha, was born in India. He was raised as a Hindu.
And the Hindu doctrine, as probably most of you know, is called reincarnation.
It's a cycle of birth and death.
And this has been reaffirmed in Hinduism for thousands of years.
Now, according to Hinduism, not only is there life after death, there's also life before birth.
This is the implication of reincarnation.
In other words, what you're living now is a succession of lives that began a long time ago.
So you are in an intermediate stage.
There have been lives that you have lived before this, and there are lives that you will live after this.
It's a little bit of a far-out doctrine, but we'll see in a moment what its appeal is.
So, in each case, the idea is your body dies, but your soul lives on, and your soul is reincarnated or reinstantiated or reinstalled into a new body.
So, reincarnation kind of solves the problem in a way of heaven and hell, in the sense that where do you live this life?
You don't need another realm.
You live this life right here on the earth.
Your previous selves lived on the earth, your future selves will live on the earth.
All right.
And Hindus also believe that these lives, past lives, present lives, future lives, are connected by a law.
And what is that law?
It's the law of karma or cosmic justice, or what goes around comes around, or you get what you pay for.
So, the idea is that your actions in one life affect your fate in the next life.
And this is the doctrine of cosmic justice.
So, this is part of the appeal of reincarnation, right?
I'm living a life right now.
I feel like I'm being treated so unfairly.
My position in life is not what it should be.
The Hindus will say, well, that's because you might have lived very badly in a previous life.
You're getting your just deserts.
But nevertheless, this is not a reason for you to despair.
It's not a reason for you to act badly.
It's not a reason for you to lash out.
Why?
Because if you live virtuously in this life, you will have your reward in the next life.
So, Hinduism, in a sense, is saying that through reincarnation, all human accounts are justly settled.
Now, the great work of Hinduism, in my opinion, is there are many important works, but the great work is called the Upanishads.
And in the Upanishads, we have a very startling doctrine that I think is philosophically very important.
And that doctrine goes something like this: We live in the world, and we cannot help but thinking of the world as the real world.
In fact, we often say things like, Well, this guy isn't living in the real world.
So, the real world is the world of experience.
The real world is the empirical world, the world that we see of other people and the world of places to go and things to do, and trees, and flowers, and a blue sky.
According to the Upanishads, this world is not in fact the real world.
It seems to be, but that is an illusion.
It is an unreal world, what the Hindus call, what the Upanishads call the world of appearances.
It's the world as it appears to us, it's not the world as it really is.
So, this, how could we have gotten it so wrong?
Why do we think it is the real world?
According to the Upanishads, that's because we live under the spell of Maya or illusion.
Illusion gives you the impression that something is other than it is.
You look at a stick in the water and you think it's bent, it's not bent.
That's the illusion created by the water.
You're walking in the sand and you think you see an oasis, you don't see it, it's an illusion, it's a trick on your eyes, it is maya.
So, reality is different than what our senses perceive.
We see ourselves as different beings, each one separated from the other.
This is the basis of human disagreements and conflict.
But in reality, says the Upanishads, everything is one, everything is not disconnected, everything comes together, and everything is one with itself, with each other, and it's also one with God.
So, the solution ultimately to this maya, to this illusion, is for us to break out of it.
It's to actually break even the cycle of reincarnation, it's to realize that our individual souls are identical with the oneness of ultimate reality.
This notion of the Upanishads, which by the way, I mentioned yesterday, has some philosophical support, even in the Western tradition.
We'll come back to that later.
But this same idea of the Upanishads is picked up in Buddhism.
But in Buddhism, you have people being born again and again and again, but not on the earth.
Buddhism posits multiple worlds, worlds inhabited by celestial beings.
And so, when you die, will you be reborn in another world?
Yes, but it's not necessarily going to be this world.
Could be, but it could be another world with other types of beings and other types of celestial creatures.
So, this is the Buddhist vision.
You can see it kind of grows out of the Christian, out of the Hindu view, but it's not the same.
The Buddhists reject the idea that we are individuals or we have individual souls.
Once again, Buddhism comes down kind of along the same lines as the Upanishads, namely, the idea that our experience in the world is misleading.
In fact, pretty much every sentence that we begin when we talk are sentences almost inevitably begin in some form with the word I.
I feel like this.
I am angry.
I am hungry.
I want to go here.
Next year I will be there.
Would you give me a call?
So I becomes the kind of reference point for pretty much all of our experience.
And basically, what Buddhism says is that that's the problem right there.
That's the cause of the illusion.
That is what misleads you into thinking that there is some, quote, you separate from the world that has its own agenda, its own interests, its own direction.
Once you break out of that, once you break free of that, then you begin to understand that you are part of a larger whole.
So there we go.
What have we learned from this very brief, all-too-brief survey of competing conceptions of life after death?
I just want to sum up before I go into the next chapter, which is going to touch upon a really interesting subject: near-death experiences.
But before we get there, here's my summation.
Contrary to what the atheists say, the belief in life after death is not merely a Western one, it is a universal idea.
Moreover, as I have shown, it is not an exclusively religious idea, but also one that has its roots in Western philosophy.
Belief in life after death has existed widely across space, widely through time.
And we've identified two different perspectives on life after death.
One is that the soul lives on, and the other is that the soul lives on in a new kind of body.
So both perspectives are worth considering.
And there are disagreements only about what life after death is going to look like, not about whether there is life after death or not.
But now in the West, not even so much in other cultures, but mainly in the West, there's a third position.
And that, of course, is the skeptical position, the atheist position.
And that's basically that there's no life after death at all.
When we die, we die.
And that's pretty much it.
And not only that, but this is, according to the skeptics, the reasonable way to think.
This is the way to think that is supported by human experience.
It's supported by the best of human knowledge.
And that, to me, is the issue we need to consider and debate.
In other words, these are the choices before us.
There's going to be life after death in one form or another, or there is no life after death.
And in the rest of this study and the rest of this book, we're going to consider which position is correct.
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