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May 16, 2025 - Dinesh D'Souza
58:47
VICTIM POLITICS Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep1085
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Coming up, Debbie and I are excited for our Friday roundup.
We're going to cover a bunch of things.
The rise of white identity politics and white racial consciousness.
The left's reaction to Trump accepting some white refugees from South Africa.
The roots of the India-Pakistan conflict.
Brandon Gill's style of cross-examination.
And the arrival of a new grandchild in the family.
If you're watching on YouTube, X or Rumble, listening on Apple or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel.
Hit the subscribe, follow, or the notifications button.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
America needs this voice.
The times are crazy in a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
Debbie and I were at a wedding last weekend in Austin, and I mention this because something kind of funny came up.
We were sitting at the kind of round tables you sit at at these weddings.
And we were, of course, having an animated conversation with some friends and a couple of people we didn't know or know so well.
And then came the issue of your pronunciation.
So explain how this came about.
Well, the couple that we were sitting with, one of the couples we were sitting with, told us that they had just gone on a cruise to Spain, Madrid.
And I mentioned that we had never gone to Madrid.
And I said, Madrid?
And everyone looks at me like, what is Madrid?
You know?
And I said, guys, you know, I'm not Anglo.
I can't say Madrid.
Because if I said Madrid...
I don't know.
I just wouldn't be authentic.
Well, what you mean, I think, is that born in Venezuela, Spanish is your first language.
And so as a result, on a number of words, and in fact, I can give a couple of examples.
Like most Americans would say, well, in fact, they would say Hugo Chavez, right?
But, of course, you know it's Hugo, not Hugo.
Hugo Chavez.
And Chavez.
And I say Chavez.
Kind of with a soft S, right?
Kind of like a soft S. Even the word Venezuela, I noticed, and I learned this from you, you say as Venezuela, whereas most people would say Venezuela.
Oh, you know what?
And not only that, but Caracas, where I was born.
Caracas.
I remember...
Walter Cronkite used to say crackers.
Or was it Dan Rather?
Or Dan Rather.
Someone said crackers.
And I was like, are you kidding me?
Crackers?
No!
What you do is you have two extremes in the media, by the way.
One extreme is to anglicize everything so much.
That it becomes ridiculous, right?
The other is the other extreme where the American Anglo tries to go full native.
And so they'd be like, they're speaking normal English and then they go Pakistan, you know, or they try to go.
But see, they don't do it consistently, right?
Because they would never dream of speaking English and then saying Paris.
They say Paris, right?
They wouldn't say Columbo, they say Columbus, even though Columbo was in fact his Italian given Columbo.
The other thing that I think that's funny is that your maiden name...
How would you say it?
Sestero.
Sestero, right?
Sestero.
Sestero.
Whereas, in the anglicized version, Sestero, right?
And you, in fact, told me this extremely amusing incident in which you were at Spirit of Freedom, which is the old Republican group you used to run, and you got into an argument with someone who insisted that you didn't know how to pronounce your own name.
Yeah.
Right?
They were like, no, Debbie, it's Sestero.
Right.
And also, you know, the other thing is, and I've noticed, like, for example, For example, Ted Cruz.
People say Cruz, and I say Cruz.
And I think even Ted says Cruz, and even Rafael.
And I say Rafael.
I don't say Rafael.
So anyway, it's just one of those things.
I mean, I speak Spanish, so I feel like I'm not authentic when I don't say it in Spanish.
As you know, I go the opposite direction on this issue because consider my name.
In India, Dinesh.
Uh-huh.
Soft D. Vinesh.
Vinesh.
And it's not Esh, but Aish.
Like Vinesh, right?
But I don't say it that way.
And I've mentioned on the podcast that I'm usually surprised when I hear someone say that.
Like J.D. Vance said it when he came on the podcast because, of course, his wife is Indian.
And she probably told him, this is how the guy's name, call him Vinesh.
Uh-huh.
And so J.D., hello, Vinesh.
And I was like, what?
J.D. said Vinesh.
I notice a lot of Indians call you the Neish.
Yeah.
I can't even say it.
Anyway, but my favorite is when they, because my name is Deborah.
Deborah.
And when I get like a Starbucks and they go, Deborah.
Well, not only Deborah, but my actual favorite was Deborah.
Oh, Deborah.
Yes, that was actually one of those Marriott points.
Because I couldn't, for some reason, couldn't get the number.
And when I called them, I told them my name and they go, oh no, we don't have Deborah.
We have Debroa.
Well, I have to say that the Deborah business, look, I mean, you know, it's often people are hesitant to say it, but that is sort of the black thing, right?
You have someone who is doing to your name the kind of literalism.
You remember the...
The skit that was done by...
Is it Key and Peel?
Key and Peel.
Yeah, the comedians where they had this black guy.
In a classroom.
He was teaching in a kind of upper middle class school as a substitute teacher.
Yeah, he was a substitute.
And he was pronouncing all the white names wrong because he was being...
No, he wasn't pronouncing them wrong.
He was pronouncing them how he said them.
Well, or to put it differently, he was pronouncing them literally.
So Aaron becomes A-Aaron, right?
And so it goes.
So...
I suppose this is just the way in which different...
Yeah.
Well, you know, but it's not even just, you know, a black person calling me Deborah.
It's even Asian people, you know, whoever, they say Deborah.
They don't say Deborah.
And I'm not sure...
Quite why?
Well, I think it's because their name is unfamiliar.
So if it's unfamiliar, you're going to approach it phonetically.
It's like one of the oldest names in history.
Really, it actually is.
It's a biblical name.
It's a biblical name.
From the Old Testament.
Judge Deborah.
Well, I think that 30 years ago, most people would know that.
Oh, thanks.
You're aging me.
So when people...
I'm simply saying 30 years ago, the knowledge of the Bible...
They know that I am like several decades, as in almost six decades.
Because it's an old name.
My point is just knowledge of the Bible was more...
Was part of people's ordinary lexicon.
Like if you were to say something like Samson and Delilah, I think that 30 years ago most people would know what you're talking about.
I bet you if you tried Samson and Delilah on the younger generation, you'll get a lot of blank looks.
Or let's even say Jonah.
Jonah in the belly of the whale.
That reference would be...
A common currency.
Isn't one of the...
Oh, that's the Jonas Brothers.
The Jonas Brothers.
They would know that.
They'd probably go, Jonah?
You're talking about the Jonas Brothers?
Yeah, yeah.
That's how it goes.
And like the Gen Zers were little kids when the Jonas Brothers were really famous.
So they know the Jonas Brothers, but as children.
Let's pick up our kind of topic for today, which is the topic of white...
We have an interesting situation in the country now, which I think from a historical point of view is understandable, but it's yet, from the point of view of a consistent way of looking at things, it's very strange, and that's this.
Every ethnic group except whites is conscious of their ethnic identity, Is encouraged to be that thing.
Be black, right?
Is encouraged to affirm that identity.
Black is beautiful.
Be proud of who you are.
You have all these days and festivals where you're encouraged to celebrate who you are.
And you are also supposed to fight for your group.
And it's not considered strange for blacks to promote black interests, Hispanics to talk about, you know, we want more Hispanics in Congress.
Yeah, the la rasa or the race.
Asians, of course, will hire each other.
They will live with each other.
This is considered quite normal.
So the same rules apply to all the ethnic groups except one, and that is white people.
But you know why?
Well, let's explore why.
Yeah.
Well, it's because of the history of the white power movement, of the KKK, of Hitler.
Yep.
So when someone evokes that, it brings back all those things.
The white power, the racist nature of what it was, and let's not kid ourselves, it was pretty racist.
Yeah.
If you're not lily white, and not even lily white, if you don't have the northern European white...
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the immigration laws in the 1920s, they were aimed...
Not only at blacks or browns, they were aimed at Southern European whites, including Italians, basically people of Mediterranean descent.
So that's true.
But look, I mean, we are...
It would be one thing if we were living in the immediate aftermath of all that, right?
But slavery ends in 1865.
Now you have segregation.
But segregation is basically on its way out starting in 1954, the Brown decision.
That's 75 years ago.
Certainly, I think most of the vestiges of this entrenched white discrimination, discrimination in favor of whites, racism of the old stripe, is Either gone or on its way out by the end of the 60s.
What that means, though, is that you've got people, let's just say someone's born in 1970, right?
They are 55 years old, and they have not lived through any of this.
In fact, they come of age 20 years later, and all of this is kind of in the rearview mirror.
And yet, they are treated as if they are somehow a continuation of People they never met.
Institutions they had nothing to do with.
And in fact, by the time they are in college, the laws, the policies are the opposite.
So when they applied to college, they were...
At a racial disadvantage.
Denied, yeah.
They've had to tiptoe their whole life on eggshells around blacks.
They've had to sort of like revere every black person in sight.
Yeah, but you do understand that this whole notion of division, and I know this very well because I saw it in Venezuela, the whole notion of division is so that you can attack...
The very institutions of freedom and everything that makes a country great, you can't have people liking each other and socialism at the same time.
You have to have an attack on people, whether it's ethnicity, socioeconomic.
You cannot have...
People can't get along because the left can't, they can't work that way.
They can't come into power that way.
Yeah, Marx divided.
Yes, I do think that...
The old Marxist division was based upon economics, right?
It was essentially the rich against the poor.
Marx had different names for it, the proletariat, the bourgeoisie, but that's what he meant.
Now, the left today has made that more complex because it's rich against poor, but it's black against white, it's straight against gay, it's men against women.
Identity, identity politics.
This is a multi-vectored form of division.
That is true.
But here's the question, and that is, we would be better.
But conservatives, we've been trying to do this, in a sense, for 30 years.
But I would have to say that we've somewhat failed.
And by that I mean, we've been trying to promote a non-racial universalism, right?
We've been saying to people, look, your race...
Not only is it not the most important thing about you, it's close to the least important thing about you.
Or should be.
Or should be.
Why?
Because being of a certain race shouldn't give you any advantage or disadvantage at all.
So what we've been trying to do is to encourage minority groups to diminish Their sense of racial tribalism.
Why?
Because how can you live in a universalist society with, let's say, a colorblind approach if all these groups...
Which, by the way, may have at one time been small minorities, but now are large minorities, and there are many parts of the United States where whites, too, are a minority.
So the old idea of whites are the majority, and then somehow...
In Texas, that's certainly the case.
In Texas, Hispanics have overtaken whites.
But, I mean, if you just add up the minority groups, even 30 years ago, because remember, the minority groups include women.
Women are half the population right there.
That's right.
So the minority groups always outnumber the so-called majority as long as you're counting women in that group.
But today, look, blacks are what?
13 or 14 percent.
Hispanics are 17 or 18 percent.
Then you have Asian Americans.
Then you have all the gays and the trans people.
Then you have women.
You're talking about 70 percent of the population pretending to be a minority.
Which is nonsense, right?
And second of all, those people, these minority groups now, are very...
Vested in their own identity.
Admittedly encouraged by the left.
Exactly.
Yeah, the left stokes it.
That's what I mean.
They cultivate it.
But what I mean is, so here's the problem.
Why do we make it an issue?
Like, this is like my least favorite topic.
No, I know.
You know that.
But here's what I'm saying.
And let's look at the kind of the Shiloh Hendricks incident, which involved this confrontation, of course, at the playground.
But I'm only using the incident to illuminate a bigger thing.
And that's this.
That I think the reason so many people responded to Shiloh Hendricks and gave her money is not because they thought she acted properly in the situation.
But they were like, listen, every other group gets to italicize their identity and be for it.
And whites are the only group that can't do that.
But not only that, that somehow the N-word is considered such a great evil.
That you can have a black guy murder 10 white guys in cold blood, or in the case of Carmelo Anthony, go stab a white guy to death, and it's perfectly okay for him to raise money.
You know this Carmelo Anthony was raising money on Give, Send, Go.
No problem.
Give, Send, Go says we're a neutral platform.
You can raise money for your cause, and the money was supposedly for his legal defense.
The moment that Shiloh Hendricks went on Give, Send, Go...
To raise money, give Sun Goa to issue a statement, and they were like, you know, we are against hate.
So interestingly for them...
They're against hate for one group and not the other group.
Not only that, but the two things weren't comparable.
In Shiloh Hendricks' case, she didn't harm anybody.
She just yelled out a bad word.
She was upset.
In fact, the guy was rifling through her bag, and then she storms off.
So the level of harm that she inflicted is minor, infinitesimal, compared to what Carmelo Anthony did.
But the pressure that Gives and Go gets from the left is way more pressure than what we do.
I mean, like, by far, which is why it happened.
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Yeah, so what would you say then to a bunch of people who are, you know, by and large right of center, they're part of MAGA, these are white guys, and what they will say is, hey listen, you know, we can talk colorblindness all we want, but we're not able to make all these minority groups be colorblind.
They are not even remotely interested in this.
They're not interested, they don't want it.
So as a result, isn't it a fact that Us becoming more racially conscious and protecting our own tribe is doing nothing different than what these groups are already doing.
How would I say that?
Well, okay, I guess they have a point, but as you know, I grew up with a grandmother who basically...
Was always telling me how much of a victim she was to discrimination and racism because she was extremely intelligent.
She was Mexican-American.
She was supposed to be valedictorian of her class, but they gave her second place, salutatorian.
She was extremely brilliant.
A great athlete, not what you would expect from a Mexican-American back in the 20s, right?
Right.
And so she always told me, oh, yeah, I don't trust him.
He's Anglo.
They're going to stab you in the back because they don't really like you, Debbie.
And so when I was little, this is what I heard all the time.
You know, I was like, you know, I'm just going to break this cycle.
I am not going to make it an issue.
I'm just not going to talk about race.
I'm not going to talk about my ethnicity.
Yes, I'm proud of where I came from, but I'm just not going to make it an issue.
And so I've been trying not to make it an issue, and it's just always an issue, you know?
It always is.
But as long as every group starts doing this...
We're never going to get rid of it.
We're never going to see a colorblind society ever, ever, as long as we're alive.
I guess the way I'd come out on this is this, and that is to say, look, the consequence of...
Because, see, we could have gone to a colorblind ethic in 1954 and in 1964.
We could have had a national effort supported by law.
To have non-discrimination be our governing ethos.
I think if that had happened, it would have been much better.
But instead, we told the minorities, the so-called minorities, the blacks, the Hispanics, and so on, hey, do what the whites have been doing all along and italicize your racial identity in retaliation for what they've been doing.
And what I'm saying is we're now coming full circle.
Because now the whites, and a lot of these whites are guys who are struggling.
They don't have jobs.
They see black guys walking into and getting a government contract, getting all these preferences.
And so they are adopting the exact same approach, which is, hey, we need to italicize our racial identity to retaliate against this entrenched minority privilege that has now been in our society and in the laws for over half a century.
I see what you're saying.
It's a destructive spiral at the end of the day, but it's also in some ways unavoidable given the pivotal decision made by the left.
By the way, the Republicans, of course, kept their mouths shut.
They did nothing really to oppose this, which is to fight basically racialism with racialism.
And now you're saying that that's going to keep playing out.
It's going to keep playing out.
I mean, what do you think this Shiloh Hendricks would think about me or you?
Like, do you think that this woman is like just a vile individual who would like...
No, I don't think she's that vile.
I mean, I think that she is a struggling...
She's apparently not a single mom.
She apparently has a partner that she's been with for many years.
I don't know if they're married or not.
They have a couple of kids.
And, you know, and she's covered in tattoos, as you've seen from the videos.
I think that somebody like that is living in a struggling America where they see that the jobs have gone elsewhere and the opportunities have gone elsewhere.
And they're making ends meet, but there is a residual built up rage.
And so I have to look at that with at least some degree of empathy.
Like, why does she feel this way?
And so given that, you know, using the N-word to me is nothing more than that bottled up resentment of pushing out.
So you think that racism today is different from whites, is different than racism back then?
Completely.
And I would say, well, let's look at it this way.
If...
If we were living 100 years ago, or let's take your grandmother's America, the racists were completely in power.
Shiloh Hendricks would have been running your grandmother's school.
So your grandmother is looking from a downward position up at Shiloh Hendricks, circa 1920.
Now, if Shiloh Hendricks were to see you or me, and let's just say that she shouted at us and called us names, who's in a more powerful position?
We or Shiloh Hendricks?
Who has a podcast?
No, I'm saying honestly, Shiloh Hendricks would be somebody in a completely different position.
That's what I'm saying.
So the whites that feel this way have lost power.
And in some ways you could even say, you know, can any competitive society people lose power?
It's one thing to lose power because you competed.
And you lost.
It's another thing to lose power because power is somehow extracted away from you because of, let's say Shiloh Hendricks had a really bright kid, and that bright kid applies to school.
And then they go, oh, sorry, we can't take you because we got to take this kid over here.
I mean, hey, if I were Shiloh Hendricks, I'd be mad.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and probably I would say, I would go further and say that she's probably not very well educated.
Because, as you know, a well-educated person would not say those things.
True.
But I think the people defending her, they have the view that it is, in fact, unhealthy for our society to put so many taboos around one group and one group alone.
Because remember, there have been taboos in America before, but many of those taboos have fallen.
Look at the number of congressmen and senators these days who use the F-word.
It's actually become quite common.
They'll use the F-word in public.
They use it in front of media.
They post on social media the F-word.
Not to mention a bunch of other words, but I'm just mentioning that one.
So why is it that that taboo should fall, but not the N-word?
A word that, by the way, is often used by blacks to each other.
So what that tells you, if blacks are going around using the N-word, what that tells you is that the word is okay to use, except if a white person uses it.
Why?
Because blacks as a political group or as a racial group want to keep that control over whites.
Like, we're going to use, if you say that word, We're going to put the lasso around your neck.
But if we say it, it's funny.
And not to mention we do it every day.
You know, speaking of that, this is not the equivalent of that exactly.
But, you know, I told you that when I was in elementary school, I had just come in from Venezuela by airplane.
But the kids thought, because I didn't speak English, the kids thought it was funny and they called me a wetback.
And I was so irritated by that because I was like, first of all, I'm not a wetback.
I did not swim across the Rio Grande.
I flew across the Caribbean, you know, the Atlantic Ocean.
I didn't swim.
And so I was super, like, that to me was like, don't say that.
Because you knew they were degrading you by saying it.
However, the kids calling me that were Mexican.
Right.
You know what I mean?
So it was like if an Anglo had called me a wetback, I think it would have been much worse.
You had a different impact.
Maybe.
But the others did it to joke around with me.
They knew I wasn't a wetback.
But hey, wetback, you know.
And so they thought it was funny.
I, on the other hand, didn't think it was funny whether it was an Anglo calling me that or a Mexican calling me that.
But...
Well, I think what that stresses is the point that even in the Hispanic...
Which was the majority.
Obviously, most of the people in school in the Rio Grande Valley are going to be of Mexican origin.
You come from Venezuela.
So even though ethnically you're in that group, you actually come from a different culture.
But remember that half of me is that culture.
So that was kind of the thing.
I was part that and part Venezuelan, which was very different.
Which is why my grandmother didn't really like my dad.
Let's talk about something related on the same theme of identity, white identity.
And that is that the left is going berserk because Trump this week allowed a bunch of, not a large number to be honest, but nevertheless South Africans, whites, coming to America as refugees.
Now look at the situation, right?
The left has been not only condoning but celebrating The mass illegal entry into this country of, I would say, bogus refugees.
I say bogus refugees because these are people who are not true refugees.
We have a very clear definition, by the way, of a refugee.
A refugee is not a poor guy from some other part of the world, because otherwise half the world would be refugees.
They would qualify.
A refugee is somebody facing political persecution.
So they would be seeking asylum.
They're seeking asylum as a result of that.
Now, the South Africans manifestly are facing political persecution.
I think from the left's point of view, though, that persecution is deserved.
They'll never say that, but that's what they mean.
What they mean is that the whites had apartheid and persecuted the blacks.
And so even though this is a whole different set of whites, remember apartheid ended in the early 90s.
It's perfectly fine for the blacks to sort of wreck the lives of the whites, like for the next 50 years.
And so if these whites try to run away and come to America, we should not allow them in.
Or as the left is now saying, Trump is only letting them in because they're white.
So this is the rhetorical backdrop.
What do you make of all this?
I mean, to me, again, this is a case where we should not back down.
Because these South African refugees are in fact genuine refugees.
They're not that different than the Cubans who escaped from Cuba.
They're not that different from refugees from the old Soviet bloc.
Whereas people who are sneaking their way from China or Pakistan to the Mexican border and coming over illegally.
They're not refugees.
They are playing the asylum process.
They're all saying, I'm persecuted because they know that they're going to get a court date in two years and then Biden would let them into the country.
Well, I have some opinions about that for sure.
Now, in South Africa, I don't know, I have to admit, I don't know a whole lot about what is really happening in South Africa except what I hear.
About here and there, right?
And it's not a lot.
But what I have heard is that some of these white farmers are losing their land.
And not only are they losing their land.
It's one thing if they lose their land.
It's another thing if they're allowed to, like, for example, go in there and murder them, rape their wives, and get away with it.
I mean, that is like...
A whole other level.
This, to me, is like the cartels in Mexico decapitating people because they don't want to join the cartel or whatever.
But it's even worse than that because in the case of the cartels, you have a criminal operation outside the government.
In South Africa...
Yeah, it is the government.
It is the government.
I mean, there is a song that leading politicians will lead a crowd in singing.
It's called Kill the Boar.
You've probably heard this.
Referring here to the Dutch settlers in South Africa killed the boar.
Now...
Yeah.
No, that's...
If all of that is true, and I don't know why it wouldn't be true, I mean, we hear it a lot, then I think that these people should definitely be given asylum, for sure.
You know, you said something interesting.
You said, I haven't been hearing much about South Africa.
I would argue that that is deliberate.
In other words...
There has been very little media coverage of these atrocities, and the reason is really simple.
The media does not want to give anybody the idea that in the one African country that was really prosperous, South Africa, a country that has skyscrapers, tall buildings, fully industrialized, had all the amenities that you would find in any other developed city.
That that place is being torn to shreds by the black majority.
Because what does that tell you?
That basically it tells you that democracy isn't working in South Africa.
It raises the question, can blacks run their own country?
So all of this would give fuel and fortification to racism.
So the media knows this.
And so they're like, let us essentially maintain a public...
Vow of silence about South Africa.
We don't report these atrocities.
We just kind of look the other way.
That's, I think, why we haven't heard more about them.
If they occurred elsewhere, we would hear all about them.
Yeah.
And Elon, you would think, Elon would say a little more about it, given that he is South African, right?
He is.
But I think that they've tried to paint him as himself a somehow part of the apartheid regime.
It's really not true in any way.
And Elon has done some posting on...
But I hope that these South Africans, when they get here, actually get out there and tell the story about what is happening in South Africa.
Well, that or a documentary or a movie depicting what's going on would be interesting.
Let's talk about India and Pakistan.
Pakistan.
And in fact, do you remember Obama used to say Pakistan?
I think Obama liked to pose as somebody who had inside familiarity.
He did.
Well, you know, he did have a Pakistani roommate.
Remember his favorite sound?
What was the favorite sound?
He said the sweetest sound he's ever heard is the musan, the Muslim called a prayer.
I'll never forget that.
I was like, yeah, there's a reason.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, so what do you make of this?
Well, I asked you, I said, have India and Pakistan always hated each other?
And you're like, yeah.
Well, yes and no, meaning the Indians and the Pakistanis, it's important to note, are the same people.
Ethnically, they're indistinguishable.
Not only that, but many of the, if you listen to, let's say the Pakistani defense minister and the Indian defense minister, they have the same Indo-European...
Accent.
They both appear to have been educated like an Oxford.
Both of them.
And yet, they are speaking against each other.
Now, what's happened really was that India was set up as a multiracial society that would allow religious freedom, including to the Muslims and the Christians.
So Hindus would be the majority.
But you notice that Hinduism is the least...
I would say evangelistic religion ever created.
Hindus are like Jews.
They make no effort to convert you.
They have no interest in doing that.
They are perfectly happy to do their Hindu thing and you do your thing.
So there's nothing in the religion that causes conflict, right?
But what happened is the Pakistani...
Then you have the ones that do.
Well, this is what I was getting at.
The Muslim leader, Jinnah...
We won't be safe in Hindu India, which was not true.
But the British went along and they created Pakistan.
And now what's happened is that while Jinnah himself was a very cosmopolitan Western guy, not particularly religious, by the way, subsequent Pakistani leaders have increasingly sort of moved in the direction of Islamism.
Very similar to Turkey.
Remember, modern Turkey was founded by Ataturk.
Ataturk abolished the veil.
Ataturk basically would shut down.
Very Western.
Very Western.
And secular.
And Pakistan was somewhat similar.
Wasn't your mom born in Pakistan?
My mom was born in Pakistan, of course.
Well, my grand-uncle was the Catholic cardinal of Pakistan.
The sole...
Cardinal of Pakistan.
And in fact, many, many years ago when I went to visit Rome, my mom said, go see your granduncle, and I did.
So I never met him in Pakistan.
I've never been to Pakistan myself, but I met him in Rome.
And we had a chance to talk a little bit about Christianity inside of Pakistan.
In any event, Pakistan has definitely moved in a...
So what's happened right now is that the Pakistanis are claiming Kashmir, which is in northern India.
On the grounds that the Kashmiris are Muslims.
They speak very often Urdu, which is the same language as in Pakistan.
So the Pakistanis claim Kashmir.
The Indians, of course, say no, and the British...
Partition the country.
Kashmir is on the Indian side.
We're not giving it to you just because Muslims live there.
Because, by the way, Muslims live all over India.
In Bombay, for example, there are, I don't know how many, but large numbers of Muslims coexisting with Hindus and Christians also.
Yeah.
So hopefully, they will be nice to each other and not...
Well, I don't think they will.
Partly because these are not, the Pakistanis, you know, they'll give lip service to jihad.
So let me ask you a question.
This is just like, if Pakistan were to nuke India or India were to nuke Pakistan, how would that, like, how would the nuclear fallout?
Like, feel here in the Western Hemisphere.
Well, it wouldn't, but it would be, obviously...
Catastrophic, of course.
It would be, yeah.
For that reason, I think that that type of escalation, I can see it happening elsewhere.
When you're dealing with people, for example, who don't care about their life, but the Pakistanis care about their life the same as the Indians.
Like, perhaps, the ISIS people?
Like maybe the ISIS people or, you know, arguably there are probably some people in the Iranian regime.
Again, I don't think it's most of them, honestly, honey, because...
As you know, these mullahs are living high on the hog.
Yeah, that's true.
I don't see them in the forefront of suicide.
But they're crazy.
They might be a little crazy, but they're not so crazy that they don't like their Mercedes or they don't like all their perks and benefits.
I see.
Yeah, so think of it.
How many members of the Iranian parliament have become suicide bombers?
As far as I know, not one.
No, they have not.
They're perfectly happy to subsidize the martyrs.
Yeah, yeah.
Hey, you go blow up yourself.
You do it.
Yeah, you do it.
I'm not going to do it.
Yeah, you do it.
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't see a nuclear...
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Now, interestingly, though, if it had been Democrats, they would have been, you know, first of all, they don't understand the situation at all.
Second of all, they would be...
Proclaiming that they have to get in the middle of it.
They've got to bring the parties together.
They would send some idiot like Kamala Harris over there to broker a peace.
I don't actually remember them doing any of this during Biden.
You know what I mean?
They ignored it.
They ignored it.
But admittedly, at that time, the tensions hadn't flared up as they have now.
I thought it really interesting that J.D. Vance took the position, it's not our fight, which I think is going to be increasingly the Trump administration stance.
Listen, fights erupt all over the world.
It's not our fight.
It's kind of like if you stepped out of your house and you walked down the street, you see two guys fighting.
You want to get in the middle of it?
In general, no.
These days?
Mm-mm.
Well, but in any time, right?
I mean, normally you might say, all right, that guy's, you know, something bad is going on.
I'll call the cops.
Yeah.
But the idea of...
I don't even want to do the Daniel Penny thing.
Well, who would, right?
Very few people today, given what happened, even though Penny got off, the fact that they tried to, I mean, think of what would have happened had he been convicted.
No, exactly.
His whole life would be destroyed.
They tried to destroy his life anyway.
Anyway.
Anyway, but we're good, good.
Let's talk about the Pope.
Yeah.
We have a new Pope, and I gotta tell you, I have been, like, warming to this guy.
Yeah?
Pope Leo.
When he was first appointed, my reaction was, the guy's from Chicago.
He's part of the Francis sort of legacy, if you will.
And so I don't have high hopes for this guy.
He's probably a leftist, a Democrat, and he's probably bought into a whole bunch of the left's causes, which, as you know, are very similar worldwide.
So he's another Francis.
But in the few indications, and I admit that there are quite few, and the few things I've been able to learn about him since, I'm coming to a different view.
That this guy is in fact a genuinely good guy.
He is a truly holy man.
Francis, I'm reluctant to say he wasn't, but I don't know that he was.
This guy seems like he is.
Not only that, but his statements...
When you listen to them carefully, and I played one for you.
We listened to it together.
He was talking about the media, and he was talking about the subtext of articles and news shows and how we have to develop critical tools to read between the lines, excavate the true...
The agenda that's driving.
So anyone who talks like this is onto something.
Right, right.
Now, he was very careful not to speak in an ideological way.
He didn't say the left.
He didn't say the Democrats.
But he made it somewhat clear what he was talking about.
And even you began to kind of smile as if to say, well, he's this guy.
I think reading between the lines.
Of what he's saying.
Of what he's saying.
I think, yeah.
Right?
Right, right.
And you also said that he was very neutral or more center-right on the immigration issue, which we thought he wasn't, right?
He had made some critical social media posts about Trump in the past.
But, as sometimes happens, you take a critical stance.
But your full position is not clear.
So for example, your position might be that don't just grab people off the street and send them to their home countries.
So you criticize Trump for doing that.
But then you can infer that this person has the view, let all the illegals in.
As it turns out, that is not his view.
So his view is this.
And that is...
That we should have immigration policies in Western countries that respect the dignity of human beings, that recognize that there are people all over the world that for understandable reasons are looking for a better life and more opportunity.
But nevertheless, we have an immigration policy that also respects the desire of the people who are here.
To be safe and to be able to decide what pace of immigration they want.
In other words, it's kind of like saying, I might be able to take a couple of...
New members of my family or new people into my home, but I can't take an unlimited number of people.
So if there is a tragic situation elsewhere, I may go, hey, listen, I'm willing to take a couple of people and extend hospitality to them, but I get to decide.
What that number is.
So I think the Pope, as far as I can tell, does have this kind of balanced view.
Now, obviously, this is a tentative assessment, and we'll see how it plays out.
And the other thing about climate change, I think, is that he's like, yeah, it's our obligation to take care of our planet because God gave it to us to take care of, right?
But he doesn't like the idea of politicizing it or forcing people to pay for, you know, taxes that are like above and beyond what they should as far as climate change legislation.
And so I think in that sense...
I don't know what he thinks about man-made climate change, but...
He definitely thinks that there should be a balance there, too.
And it may well be that he has been subjected.
Yeah.
You know, if you're not in the political world and completely attentive to what's going on, the propaganda can get to you.
Right.
The other thing about him, and I played a little video for you to watch where his brother was calling him on the phone, right?
And the reason I mention that is because it shows that with this Pope...
There is a down-to-earth human dimension that's very Trumpian.
In other words, the first thing he says when his brother calls him is like, hey, listen, why don't you ever answer your phone?
Which is something you wouldn't think of the Pope saying.
Answer your phone, man.
I'm not Catholic, so I don't really follow the Pope.
From the popes that I have learned about, they always seem to be these people that have no family.
Do they have siblings?
Do they have aunts and uncles?
Nobody knows.
But yet, this guy has brothers, right?
Right.
He's very in tune with them.
And like you say, he was trying to call him or FaceTime him.
And when he's like, hey, you...
Well, the brother had the media there and was calling him and like recording him.
And so he, in fact, he tips off his brother, the Pope, and he goes, you know, he goes, hey, listen, this is being recorded.
And there's a long silence because I think the Pope realized...
He goes, really?
Right now?
You know, which is like, it's crazy because you don't think of the Pope as having a buddy brother.
You just don't.
Right.
Well, it'll be something if this Pope turns out to be the kind of moral leader that...
I mean, the Catholic Church has had a lot of problems, as you know.
Legal payouts, all these gay scandals in the Church.
And I think, understandably, there's been a real diminution of money in the pew, people in the collection plate.
So Catholicism is like begging for a revival.
I mean, what I'm hoping for ultimately is a Catholic revival and an evangelical revival that kind of meet in the middle because those are the two complementary strains.
Come on, guys.
We became what we became because of...
Jesus Christ.
Right.
He should be the center of all this, right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
All right, let's talk about baby Winston.
Oh my goodness, Grandpa.
Congratulations, Grandpa.
Grandpa number two.
And a boy.
Yeah, Papa.
Well, Papa is what Marigold calls me.
Yeah, but he'll call you Papa as well.
Oh, because Marigold has already set the name.
Yes.
And then you have a name.
I wanted to be Lita, but she couldn't say Lita, so she says Lala.
It's so cute.
So that's most likely going to become your name going forward.
But Winston, eight pounds, two ounces.
Adorable.
We have to say that people will say, well, where did you get the name Winston?
And the answer is obvious.
It's from Winston Churchill.
Brandon is a big fan.
And we have to also tell people that we have visited them this week.
And that's why we had Chad fill in for you.
That's right.
Of course.
So, yeah, because we wanted to see him and take care of Marigold.
Well, we weren't.
We were there last week before the birth.
And then Brandon came back and was there with Danielle.
And also Brandon's mom.
And so we weren't there for the birth itself.
Yeah.
No, because you had some place that you had to be.
Well, I mean, I'd signed up to speak at New Jersey right in life.
Danielle was actually due to have her C-section later in the month, but it was pulled, so the date was changed, and I obviously couldn't move in the event that was already there.
So tickets and everything was already set.
Now, interestingly, you...
Called it with regard to it being a boy.
With it being a boy.
Because I have these crazy dreams that, you know, really, even with Marigold, even before Danielle was pregnant with Marigold, I had a dream that Danielle had a little girl.
And so when Danielle became pregnant, I'm like, I think you're going to have a little girl because in my dream it was a little girl.
Well, the same thing happened with Winston, is before Danielle was even pregnant with him, I had a dream that she had a little boy.
And so then that was kind of just the reason I decided it had to be a boy.
But I always have these kind of strange dreams.
And it even goes back to Justin, my boy, my 30-year-old boy.
Before I had him, I was only actually like five or six weeks along.
I thought I was going to lose him, and I had this dream.
My dad passed away when I was 17, and he came to me in the dream, and he said, don't you worry.
He's going to be a little boy, and it's going to be a little reminder of me, which is crazy because my son has red hair, my dad had red hair, and indeed it turned out to be a boy.
That reminded me of my dad.
So, you know, look, you say whatever you want, but I believe.
And I, you know, I'm never not going to believe because I do think these things do happen.
Well, I mean, the thing about it is, you know, when people say I, you know, believe or don't believe, I mean, in your case, you're talking about actual experience.
Yeah.
You're talking about the fact that you have a dream, you see your dad in the dream.
Now, had your dad said something that turned out to be the opposite of what happened, you can then question, well, was this just only a dream?
Was it a fiction?
But on the other hand, you see your dad, your dad says something, it's going to happen.
In fact, you told your gynecologist and she gave you a funny look like, what are you talking about?
Yeah, she was like, well, you know, it is 50-50.
You know what I mean?
But then I was like, what about the red hair?
And she was like, yeah, I don't know how to explain that one.
Not to mention the fact that there are also, I mean, I can observe this from the outside, is there are some similarities of interests.
I mean, Justin is in a profession not too far removed from your dad's profession.
He has aptitudes and talents.
That resemble those of your dad.
So it's all very fascinating.
Well, we're super excited about grandparenthood and with probably more to come.
Yeah.
And the really funny is we saw photos of Danielle with Brandon and little Marigold and Winston.
And Danielle looks like a model.
I'm like, do you know I look like literal?
You know what?
After I delivered my kids, I didn't want any photos.
Well, they had a photographer come in the next day.
And Danielle is, you're right, she looks at ease and she looked great.
Yeah, amazing.
So that is fantastic.
Brandon has been doing downright awesome.
Yeah.
And I think he is starting to perfect a style of cross-examination.
Yep.
Which has impressed even Megyn Kelly.
Megyn Kelly says he's like her favorite.
And Megyn Kelly was like, turn over all future cross-examination to this guy.
I mean, think about it.
He's 30 years old, and he's the youngest on the GOP, and yet he's the standout in these oversight hearings.
He's got a future, that's for sure.
He's got a future.
Rising star.
Yeah.
And his technique.
Is so simple and yet so effective because what he does is he simply researches what these people have said before.
Then he springs it on them.
They panic and deny that they said it.
Yeah, I think that they're probably, anybody that goes up in front of them is probably going to be very panicky because they're going to know that there isn't anything that they wrote or...
Talked about that Brandon won't know.
And it's a trap, right?
Because either he'll say something like, do you believe that all white people need to be thrown out of windows and go plummeting to their death?
So you have a choice.
You can go...
No, I...
Or you can say, yes, I believe that that should happen, in which case your career is destroyed because you're now in a whole different context than when you said that to a group of protesters and they were like, yeah, yeah, right?
Or you can say, I didn't say it, in which case Brandon has the screenshot.
Exactly.
There's your tweet.
That's exactly what you did say and you gotcha either way.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's pretty effective.
We're excited.
Brandon, keep up the good work.
Very proud of him.
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