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March 21, 2025 - Dinesh D'Souza
52:02
RULE OF LAWLESSNESS Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep1046
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Coming up, Debbie Nye here for our Friday Roundup.
We're going to discuss how leftist judges have unleashed a rule of lawlessness in an effort to stop Trump.
We're going to talk about the vandalism against Tesla and the upsurge of violence from the Democratic left.
And we're also going to talk about a proposed Muslim Sharia town in Texas.
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We'll be right back.
Guys, Debbie and I are ready and geared up for our Friday roundup.
Well, we should start off by talking about our anniversary, right?
Yes. We have crossed number nine.
We're now in our 10th year of marriage.
We got married in...
This time of year, 2016.
So it was actually the year of Trump coming in.
Yeah. And it's all gone, I must say, pretty fast.
So what do you think?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it has.
Well, part of me says, yes, it has.
Part of me says, I feel like we've been married 30 years.
You know what I mean?
It's like...
I'm not quite sure which is which.
Well, we've done something that is, I don't know if this is normal or common, because we obviously met kind of late in life, right?
I was 53, and you were, well, a few years younger than that in your late 40s.
But I think what we've done is we have filled in each other's lives backward.
In fact, going back to our very early years, so you know a lot about me.
And not only that, but you said that when you came, because you've been to India now five times maybe.
And the thing about going to India is that you come to the house in which I've lived all my life.
Born and raised.
Born and raised.
And my brother still lives there.
And so you got a close-up look at my early life.
I think that's unusual in a sense, because I think sometimes when people meet in midlife, it's like the second half of the journey, and the first half is a little bit of a...
Mystery, maybe?
In the rearview mirror.
Also, you've taken a lot of interest in my life as well, and my childhood, my teenage years, my high school.
You even went to my high school reunion, which was so much fun.
Well, I was very touched when I met your cousin because we were in Miami.
This is Miguel.
Oh, my cousin Miguel.
And we were in Miami and we were talking.
And I was talking in some detail about your dad's brother and your dad's sister.
And he's like...
How do you know about all these people?
These are all people that were in Venezuela and yet you know them by name and you know what they did and what their personality was like.
And I go, well, yeah, I got it from you.
Yeah. And so anyway, it's now we we didn't really have a chance to celebrate our anniversary.
No. For reasons having to do with me.
Yeah. Namely, I had a major.
Well, I had a dental surgery to do an implant.
That didn't happen.
Yeah, there's a few complications there.
Well, first of all, I think people that listen to the podcast regularly know that a few months ago, you had a little accident playing pickleball.
We had never played pickleball before.
We were visiting some friends, and we weren't really dressed for it.
I was wearing my normal pants.
I didn't have tennis shoes on.
No, you had your normal shoes on.
I had my normal shoes on, but we decided to play, and I think I just...
Went for a shot that was a little too ambitious, and I landed on the ground.
No, the thing is, I felt fine.
I mean, I had blood and all, but the point is, the point is, I didn't think I had done any damage to my teeth.
I know.
And because you don't complain, I didn't know either.
You know, I was like, are you okay?
Are you okay?
You're like, I'm fine.
I'm fine.
You know, and yeah, you had a little bit of blood and your lip got kind of puffy.
And you had a little bit of a, like a...
Puffed lip for a little bit.
Yeah, for a little bit.
A little injury.
And I felt sore.
But the thing about it is my teeth weren't, they were fine.
And then when I go in weeks later for...
No, this was just a couple weeks ago.
Yeah. They went in for a cleaning.
Right. And they go, you know, you have a hairline fracture inside your gum.
Yeah. So, in any event, the...
The point is, I've had, you know, I've been through the dental.
And this is going to be, and they thought they were going to get to do an implant and couldn't do it because of the bone.
So now you're going to have to do it in four months, it looks like.
Yeah, yeah.
So, but you are a trooper.
And, you know, he keeps asking for ibuprofen.
And I keep, you know, me, Debbie Downer, I keep, no, ibuprofen's so bad for you.
You can't do it.
Of course, if I was the one in pain, I'd be like, well, heck with it.
I'm going to take it anyway.
And so we're kind of monitoring the pain there.
But you're good.
You know, this was Wednesday.
Yeah. We're now Friday, and you look fine, and you don't seem to be in pain, so that's a good thing.
Yeah, yeah.
I was taking two Advil at the beginning, but now I'm down to one.
And so...
I should be.
I should be just fine.
Yeah. But let's talk about these rogue judges.
Here's Trump making a couple of points.
He goes, lawyers endlessly search the United States for these judges.
His point is they do the judge shopping, right?
And then he goes on to say a president has to be allowed to act quickly and decisively about matters like returning murderers, drug lords, rapists, other types of criminals to their homeland.
And then here's the key point.
These judges want to assume the powers of the presidency without having to attain 80 million votes, right?
So what he's saying is that they're going for rule by the judiciary.
And by the way, this is part of a planned strategy by the Democrats.
Let me see.
Chuck Schumer was on TV just a day or two ago, and he was boasting very In a very informative way, let me quote, we have put 235 judges, progressive judges, judges not under the control of Trump last year on the bench,
and they are ruling against Trump time after time after time.
So this is what the Democrats were...
On purpose.
They were planning this, they were baking this cake.
Yep, yep.
Well, and this morning, I mean, I told you, I said, well, why is it then that when...
Biden was blatantly doing the exact opposite of what Trump is doing.
Trump is trying to protect us from illegals that are criminals, right?
And the job of the federal government is to protect us, right, from foreign enemies, domestic enemies.
So Trump is doing this, and these judges are stopping him from doing it.
Why didn't we have judges, conservative judges, stopping Biden from doing the opposite?
Okay, so here I think you get to a key point, and that is this.
The conservative judges look at the Constitution and they say, and let's remember that in the case of the conservative judges, it wasn't just that they would be acting to stop Biden.
You would have states like Texas that had laws that allow Texas to declare an invasion, but the judges still said, no, A, immigration is a federal matter, B, The federal government has the authority to make these kinds of decisions.
Except now.
No, no, exactly.
So what I'm saying is that their judges are willing to ignore the law, ignore the Constitution, ignore executive authority.
Now, as I was saying to you this morning, they know that this is not going to last, right?
But here's how they look at it.
The way they look at it is that we, the Democratic judges, have tenure, right?
We are like professors.
We can't be fired.
We have lifetime appointments.
But guess what?
Trump is here in his second term on a four-year duration.
And therefore, if we can simply hold him up, let's say we can hold him up for three weeks or five weeks or eight weeks, what are we doing?
We're stealing his time.
Because time is all he's got.
He is...
He doesn't have permanent takeover of the government.
What he has is a short duration.
And so our job is to block and tackle.
I think that's how they see it.
And it is a blatant abuse of authority.
Let me give an example of what I mean.
I'm going to read.
This is worth doing because it's worth looking at the law.
We're talking about Trump's authority under the Alien Act of 1798.
Let's look at the wording.
Before I read the wording, let's remember this.
Democrats are basically saying, the judges are saying, we are not at war with Venezuela, right?
As if to say that there needs to be a declaration of war in order to invoke the act and deport these criminal aliens.
So let's read the text to see if that's what it says.
Okay. All right, here we go.
That whenever there shall be a declared war, Or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government,
and the President of the United States shall make public proclamation of the event.
All native citizens, etc., etc., etc., can be restrained, apprehended, secured, and removed as alien enemies.
So, it doesn't require a war.
It requires a war or an attempted invasion or predatory incursion.
Which, that's the case.
That is the case.
And not only that, but who gets to say if it is the case?
This is the point.
Not the judge.
It makes it really clear.
The president gets to say.
The president gets to make that determination and the president can act on it.
So, again, do any of these Democratic judges think that they can long-term withstand And block Trump?
No. They don't think that.
But what they are doing, I think, is using...
This is essentially the power of the administrative and bureaucratic state.
It has power in the government, right?
It has civil servants.
It has bureaucrats, but it has the judges.
The democratic judges are its protectors and allies.
They're not in the government, strictly speaking, or they're a different branch of government.
But we have an attempted judicial takeover of the executive branch.
I mean, think of how frightening that is in a country based on separation of powers.
One power, in fact, the power with the least ability to enforce its own laws, is...
Trying to overrun the executive branch.
Now, you made, I think, a very profound point with regard to Judge Bosberg.
And you said, you remember the point?
Yeah, I do.
I do.
I said, I think he's lining it up to see if they can impeach Trump.
Right. Now, let's look at that in some detail.
Because I think here's what we're saying.
Judge Bosberg knows that Trump is not going to be impeached right now.
The Republicans are not going to impeach Trump.
But... What if the Democrats get the House in the midterm election?
So, Bolsberg is saying, look, why don't I make some unreasonable rulings?
It doesn't matter how stupid they are.
It doesn't matter how preposterous they are.
They have the status of rule of law until and unless they are overturned.
And so, I'll say, bring the flights back.
Go over to Venezuela and get those.
Go to El Salvador.
Tell them to open those prisons and send us people back.
I can make the most...
Unreasonable, preposterous rulings, but they have the status of rule of law.
If you don't comply with them, I'm going to make judicial note of this, and the Democrats can then use it, saying Trump flouted the law.
Isn't that what you're getting at?
Yeah, that's where I'm getting.
Absolutely. I mean, these people will stop at nothing.
They will stop at nothing.
Let's look at a couple of these recent decisions.
You have to give people an idea of how sweeping and broad-based all of it.
A federal judge has ordered the Federal Bureau of Prisons to transfer two trans convicts back to federal women's prisons after they sued following Trump's executive order.
So Trump said, no, no biological males in women's prisons.
These judges go, put them back.
Put them back in the women's prisons.
Okay, here's another example.
Elon Musk is required to reinstate USAID workers.
Trump has to disclose sensitive operational details about the deportation flights of alleged terrorists.
The Department of Education, which had canceled $600 million in DEI grants, has to restore those grants.
What I'm getting at is this is not a judge over here and a judge over there.
It is a concerted, organized campaign.
There are some 600 to 700 of these district judges.
The Democrats probably have about half of them.
They can shop around and pick the ones they want.
They can essentially paralyze the presidency.
And apparently they have issued more injunctions against Trump in, what, five weeks, six weeks?
Then against Biden in his entire presidency.
Biden, Obama, I think it was Biden, Obama, and maybe Bush combined.
So this is an effort by the permanent branch of the government to take control back, to undo the result of the 24th election.
I've always told you that these people are, they may not be in control, but they always seem to be in charge.
I mean, is it, you know, do you not see that?
No, I mean, what I see is they are in a death struggle to preserve their power.
Because there is, I will say, I think what Trump has essentially...
They've declared a kind of domestic war against these people, the permanent state, right?
And think about it.
They're clearing people out of the FBI and sending them, scattering them around the country.
They want to shut down the Department of Education and dismantle it.
Trump has removed the distinction between the career bureaucrats and the political appointees.
So the Democrats have worked so hard to convict all those January 6th defendants.
They've all been pardoned.
I have never seen a Republican strike back against these people like this.
We have seen nothing like this.
I mean, there's been nothing like this since the New Deal.
So what's happened, I think, is we're looking at something that has developed a kind of encrusted bureaucracy over 100 years.
It started in the 1930s with FDR, continued with LBJ.
And its roots are in the progressive movement of Woodrow Wilson.
So think about it.
That's a century, more than a century ago.
So the idea of experts taking over our government and ruling it regardless of what the elections decide, this is the operation that the left and the Democrats have been carrying out.
This is why they're so discombobulated by Trump, because he has unleashed a counterattack.
He said he was going to do it, and he's doing it.
This is really what is meant by draining the swamp.
And the swamp is fighting back, right?
The swamp is fighting back big time.
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And look, I think that Trump is going to win the fight, but they are doing everything that they can.
I mean, they are leaking articles.
I saw an article in the New York Times, obviously leaked from the Pentagon.
They go, you know, basically saying that intelligence officials, as if we trust these intelligence officials anymore.
Anyway, intelligence officials are saying that there's no evidence that the Venezuelan government was involved in sending these Strand de Aragua criminal aliens here.
I call BS.
Because I know exactly what they do and what they're capable of doing.
And we'll talk about the connection between the Maduro regime and Trendy Aragua.
Because you were talking, this was some time ago on the podcast, about how these people got special treatment.
They did.
Yeah, but say what that means.
So basically these...
Thugs, you know, for lack of a better word, had these prisons that were kind of like Disneyland, okay?
They had special facilities where they had like swings and slides and, you know, I think petting suit, you know, whatever, for the families of these criminals.
And, of course, the criminals got to enjoy it as well.
They got...
Special treatment in other ways.
Food, probably.
Better food.
Better food than the citizens.
Not only that, but when they got out of prison, they were then sanctioned thugs that could go after the citizens and intimidate, in some cases, rob, rape, you name it.
And they got complete and utter backing by the government.
Immunity by the government.
Well, that shows that if you, again, come back to the language of the 1798 law.
To the degree that it requires government knowledge and participation in this predatory incursion, there it is.
You just said what it was.
Tren de Aragua is a kind of proxy of the Maduro regime.
It's a coddled group of criminals.
That's right.
And so...
Not to be confused with another group that also kind of wreaked havoc on the...
Venezuelan citizens.
But all in all, Maduro likes the criminals that like him because he's able to use them.
They like the Democratic Party here.
That's right.
The Democratic Party likes BLM.
Look at that.
They like Antifa.
Antifa. Look at what they're doing to Tesla.
Let's turn to that topic because that has become...
This is another thing where...
We're not talking about a single incident, right?
Right. Had there been a lone, you know, Antifa operative who said, I'm going to go scratch a Tesla.
No, we have seen firebombing of Teslas.
This is coordinated.
This is a coordinated, violent assault.
And apparently there are well-funded groups that have gotten money from liberal billionaires.
And these groups now are all backing off because, remember, Pam Bondi has just arrested three Tesla terrorists.
I don't know if you know this, but a lot of these terrorism incidents are perpetrated by trans people.
I've heard.
Yeah. There's apparently a kind of trans cult of criminals.
And by fat, dirty people that like to poop on things.
Well, there was that one video about that guy.
Oh, my gosh.
Disgusting. But other videos, I mean, it runs the gamut.
In some cases, you have some guy just using a key on the Tesla.
Bash the Tesla, puncture the tires, set it on fire.
Until someone gets shot.
Well, Tesla is apparently taking now all kinds of measures.
They've activated all kinds of countermeasures.
I mean, Elon Musk, you know, give him credit.
He knows how to counter this kind of thing.
And now he has the DOJ behind him.
And now the left is screaming because they say that Trump is trying to promote Tesla because Trump bought a red Tesla, which, frankly, he has every right to do.
And I think that, you know, when Howard Lutnick even came out, the Commerce Secretary, and said, you know, I think Tesla stock is down.
And he's like, it's a great bargain.
We're going to buy some, by the way.
But the point here is that I think that Trump feels bad that you got this guy, Elon Musk.
He takes on this task with nothing to gain for himself.
But isn't it kind of like a carbon copy of what happened to him?
It is in a way, because see, Trump himself is motivated by much of the same motives as Elon Musk.
Exactly, and he was also cool before he wasn't, right?
So was Elon.
Right. But all of a sudden...
They're Republican.
That's actually interesting.
Trump was cool because he was a cultural celebrity.
That's right.
Because of his affection for popular culture.
Trump particularly liked rappers and boxers.
So Trump had a lot of black fray.
He was involved in black culture.
And Elon was cool because of the electric vehicle.
I mean, Elon Musk once made the comment that he, apparently someone had told him, and you can see why, that he had done more for the climate than any living human being.
Well, I think he's done more for humanity, really.
In many ways he has.
In many ways.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. You know, his robotics, bringing the people back from space.
I mean, like...
Really? Isn't it amazing that you have people like AOC calling him dumb?
AOC is calling Elon Musk dumb.
And she's not the only one.
No, I know.
You have Amy Klobuchar.
You have all these people of very, at best, room temperature IQs.
You know, moderate and very moderate intelligence.
And who was it who made the comment?
They were like, AOC goes to bars, but not just to have a drink.
She goes there to serve people.
She's behind the counter.
So this is the IQ that she's...
I look forward to watching the sick terrorist thugs get 20-year jail sentences for what they are doing to Elon Musk and Tesla.
Here's my favorite part.
Perhaps they could serve them in the prisons of El Salvador, which have become so recently famous for such lovely conditions.
I mean, only Trump would put that out, right?
And this brings us to the third.
Colorful character in this ensemble, Bukele.
Oh, Bukele.
You know, well, I showed you yesterday a video, a clip, of him at a huge stadium.
And all of these young kids were screaming, we love you, you're amazing, you know, in Spanish.
I was like, you know, this guy, this dude, he's beloved.
He's a rock star.
And here's why.
What we know about Bukele, what most people know, is this guy brought in the army.
He cracked down on the gangs.
He made El Salvador safe.
But that's only the beginning of the story.
Because what he's done also is he wants to make El Salvador a kind of Singapore.
Thriving metropolis.
He wants it to be an entrepreneurial magnet for the world.
He's promising low tax rates.
Of course, you know, he set up the Bitcoin strategic kind of Bitcoin reserve.
But El Salvador buys Bitcoin for its treasury.
And
And so, suddenly, a country that was wrecked by war, corrupt from top to bottom.
And Bukele has attacked it on so many different fronts.
Do you remember the scene where he brings in all of his cabinet, right?
And he says, I have appointed an independent investigator to look into the finances of all of you and me.
Why? Because he goes, we've had honest presidents of El Salvador before, but they've been surrounded by other dishonest people.
He goes, we need to have no dishonesty in the government.
So if any of you are doing any shady stuff, it's going to come out and you're going to be prosecuted.
He's telling his own cabinet this.
I mean, this is amazing.
So no wonder...
He's got some major balls.
Well, young people look at this and they go, we've never seen anything like this.
And I would have to say that in a larger scale...
We'd have to say the same about what's going on in the country right now.
In fact, who was it?
Ana Cabrera?
What's her name?
The Hispanic leftist who's on TV.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter.
She's a non-entity.
But she was saying, you know, I'm so unnerved because every time Trump does something, I say to myself, That's it.
He's gone over the line.
The Republicans are all going to turn against him now.
And she goes, but every time I talk to Republicans, they're thrilled.
They're gleeful.
They're really happy with what Trump is doing.
I mean, to me, not only am I thrilled, but I think that he should be doing, I mean, I would ramp it up.
Because it seems to me, for just the reasons we were talking about, the police state is striking back and it's time to go deeper.
It's time to take the wrecking ball.
And really start raising some gain.
A la Bukele, right?
A la Bukele.
Yeah. Well, Bukele came, when he spoke at CPAC a few weeks ago, he made the point that you have to...
And Malay.
Right, but Bukhalet was saying you have to go after these judges.
He goes, because otherwise they take on untrammeled authority and they believe that they run the country.
And so what kind of a democracy is it when people elect a government to do something and the judges just shut them down cold?
Well, I mean, look, in Venezuela, the judges are the ones that shut down Maria Corina from running for president.
And so they were aligned with Maduro and they were able to stop her.
So these leftist governments know what they're doing when they have a court that's packed with their people because they use the judicial to shut down the opposition.
And that's exactly what the Democrats have done.
This is a key point.
They realize this is what they mean by rule of law.
Let me give you an example of something I just saw.
It involves Cori Bush.
Oh, yeah.
You told me about that this morning.
Yeah, so Cori Bush's husband was just indicted.
Cori Bush's husband?
I'm sorry.
Cori Bush is the, you know, the woman from the squad, right?
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
That's right.
Yeah. So she's the black left wing.
So I'm going to read you.
Former Rep Cori Bush's husband indicted for wire fraud.
Accused of submitting false applications to receive COVID relief funds.
And so, by the way, this is her husband who she paid $150,000 to serve as her bodyguard.
Oh, that's right.
I remember that.
And so apparently this guy got money by falsifying business records.
He took advantage of the Paycheck Protection Program and got small business loans in 2020 and 2020.
So this is, you know, when these people talk about...
Rule of law?
Except for them.
Well, no, no.
This is what they mean.
They mean that the rule of law is a racket.
It means they rule the law.
They rule the law.
They rule the law.
And if you bust them, you're against rule of law.
You're against democracy, right?
So the corruption, to the degree, law has become a tool in their arsenal.
And law itself is twisted to become the enabler of corruption.
And the same is with the word democracy.
Whenever they say we're protecting democracy, that's why I was chuckling.
When a prominent leftist, this is this Aaron Rupar, you know, he's a social media influencer.
He goes, I've lost faith in the American electorate.
I no longer trust the electorate.
And I'm like, okay, aren't you the guy who says that you're fighting to save democracy?
Aren't you the guy who says that democracy is on the ballot?
Aren't you the guy who says that the Republicans are against democracy?
If you don't have any faith in the electorate, you don't have any faith in democracy.
You're the one who's given up on democracy, and it's fine to do that.
Maybe you think there's a better system of government or an alternative system that works better.
And historically, there have been many people who have said there is.
But nevertheless, it's rather ironic that you're posing as the defender and savior of democracy, but you have no faith in the American people.
Explain that.
Yeah. No, it's so hypocritical, these people.
I mean, really.
Yeah. They're nuts.
They really are nuts.
I mean, there's no other word for it.
Well, you were making a point this morning when we were chatting about the sort of...
And you've said this before, but you were explicating it a little bit more.
Sort of the strategy of Satan.
Oh, yeah.
I go, these people are just like Satan.
I mean, really, because what does Satan do?
You know, when you have an exorcism, right?
You get rid of Satan and this person.
Right. But then what does Satan do?
He goes into another person and another person and another person.
And so he doesn't stop.
Right. So it's not just talking about the depth of malevolence.
I think what you're saying is that you're saying that he never gives up.
He never gives up.
Right. And remember we saw, and we had also talked about this on the podcast, the film Nefarious.
Yes. Which is about a, it's not Satan, i.e.
Lucifer, but it is demon possession.
Yeah. And the demon has taken a hold of this guy.
But at the end of the movie, although the demon gets out of him.
And this is the closing scene of the film.
You see the demon has gone into someone else.
And so the demon lives on.
Well, I mean, demons are not mortal.
That's right.
That's right.
So these people are demons, basically.
Well, what you're saying is that institutionally they operate like that.
They do.
Because the institution doesn't die, right?
People come and go.
Harry Reid is gone.
So many of the old leftists have gone.
I mean, I remember all the guys who used to write for the New York Times, James Reston, Anthony Lewis.
But they are just replaced by others.
It's almost like they've got demon succession.
Yeah, yeah.
They do.
And so the project continues.
The permanent government.
It does.
The corrupt enterprise.
Well, it's like the mafia, right?
The Don is dead.
Long live the new Don.
Yeah. Well, I mean, look, they're the ones that are...
Pro-Hamas.
And Hamas is, like, demonic.
So, you know, think about it.
They're defending this dude that they're trying to deport, Khalil?
Khalil. Mahmoud Khalil?
Yes, Mahmoud Khalil.
And you know what?
He should definitely be deported.
I mean, this guy is bad news.
Using, you know...
Hamas propaganda under the guise of, oh no, I'm actually fighting for the Palestinians.
That's BS.
That's not true.
So, and then, oh, my wife, you know, she's pregnant, you know, whatever.
Well, look, I don't really care if you are here with a green card or you're here as a student.
If you espouse these horrible, terroristic...
Like, ideologies?
You don't belong in America.
And I'd like to know how he got a green card, which is very hard to get.
Probably his wife.
Probably via his wife, right?
Because I think he was here as a student, and then I think he got married.
I see.
That would explain it.
Right? So I think that's how that happened.
But, you know, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
If you come here with intent to throw hate...
And, you know, again, they use these laws very loosely, these leftists, right?
They're like, oh no, that's free speech.
How could it be free speech?
How can it?
Well, he would say that I'm just putting up flyers, I'm organizing demonstrations, this is a venue for people to state their views.
I mean, I have some sympathy for this, but I will say that these rights of free speech, or the First Amendment, They're in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and they protect U.S. citizens.
Now, I will say that let's say that this guy was a U.S. citizen, you would be very hard-pressed to go after him because he would just say, look, however hateful my speech, hate speech is legal, and if you claim to defend free speech...
You've got to recognize that this is within protected speech.
Yeah, but he's also using some intimidation tactics to Columbia University.
So this is a little different matter.
Taking over a building is a little different.
Threatening people is different.
Advocating violence, you're actually allowed to advocate violence, but if you make an imminent threat of violence, there's a kind of a borderline as to how far you can go with advocating violence.
I think he went pretty far.
You think he went pretty far?
I do.
Yeah. I do.
But my point is that when you have a green card, you're basically still a guest.
I mean, aren't these the same people that call us Nazis and fascists, yet they act like Hitler?
I mean...
You know, there's a kind of a disconnect here.
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It's D-I-N-E-S-H, Dinesh.
Let's pivot to our other topic, which we want to talk about, because it's an interesting development.
It connects here to this issue of Islam.
You mean?
Yeah, we're talking about Sharia town.
Sharia city.
What has been called Sharia city in the outskirts of Dallas, right?
So this was the brainchild of some Islamic guy.
I can't remember his name, but it doesn't really matter.
Yasir Qadhi.
Yasir Qadhi.
Okay. So this guy gets the idea of...
Why don't we create an Islamic city?
It's a small city, right?
It's an elaborate housing development, right?
But it's a housing development with zoning laws, with local autonomy.
I think what he wants is the way he sees it.
Let me put it his way and then you tell me what you think is wrong with it.
What he would say is, look...
Lots of people like to live in groups for whatever reason.
A group of gun owners could create a community of gun owners and have a club or could say we want to build a housing development and all live together and set up ranges and do our thing.
So he would say we Muslims have our own culture, we have our own food, we have our own festivals.
What if about, you know, 500 of us decide we want to live together in this community?
You just described Koresh.
David Koresh?
You just described his compound.
Right, but these people aren't drinking Kool-Aid.
Well, I mean, I'm just saying, you know, they all, like, they had all these arms, they had all these weapons, and that was the reason why they went after them.
So, I mean, I'm just saying.
They were living their own little...
Crazy world by themselves.
Right. Right?
So, yeah.
I mean, I think these things are a problem.
But I think even with David Koresh, we agree that there should not have been that federal raid.
Well, no.
That's what I'm trying to say.
Yeah. You're saying, you know, this will...
But the government had an eye on those guys.
Yeah. Now, with these guys, I think the real issue is...
The issue of Sharia law, right?
Or the issue of keeping non-Muslims out.
Because, of course, that would be problematic, right?
Just like you can't have laws that say, you know, this is a Christian development and no non-Christians are allowed to move into this town.
You would not be able to do that.
So why should the Muslims do it?
So this guy, Khadi, has figured out that he can't say that.
But I think what he is trying to say is only Muslims would want to move in.
And I think the controversial issue is to what degree would they be able to create their own local laws?
Well, as you know, in Europe, in the UK...
They have no-go zones.
You've heard of those, right?
Yeah, but explain what they are.
So basically a no-go zone is you don't go there.
You don't go there if you're not...
But when you say you, not just you and me, the cops don't go there.
Yeah, cops can't go there.
Officials can't go there.
Non-Muslims can't go there.
Right. Right?
They create their own laws, Sharia law, and that is how they live and what they abide by.
And so in a sense, they have created a kind of a separate...
Within a community.
Within a community that is only Muslim and only Sharia.
I have to admit that something like this happens in India now.
In other words, you have Muslim communities, and even though the ruling government may not, maybe Hindu, they let the Muslims do their own thing.
Now, if a Muslim gets involved in a contract dispute or shoots a non-Muslim, then you have to go to the secular court.
But if two Muslim families start a fight?
Well, what about the issue of honor killings?
What happens in that case?
Let's say that a family in this Sharia town, whenever it's done, right, they carry out this honor killing because it is part of Sharia.
Right. Then what?
I mean, in the United States, that would absolutely not be allowed.
I don't think it's allowed in India either.
Well, then how can this town be allowed?
Because I think these guys are going to have to disclaim or deny that they are implementing any kind of full Sharia.
Now, they might say we're implementing partial Sharia, and here's what I mean.
If we...
If we have business loans, we're not going to charge interest because that's not allowed by Sharia law.
We're going to, let's just say, for example, collect certain duties from people local for our holidays to subsidize public celebrations, things like that.
I don't think they're going to be able to get away with trying to change the criminal law in any way.
Or maybe not even contract law affecting people outside that community.
But this is, you know, look, Canada deals with this.
They've got not only Muslims, they've got French-speaking Canadians, right?
And the French-speaking Canadians in places like Montreal say, we want to have our schools in French.
We want French to be the...
Yeah, somehow that doesn't really strike me as that bad.
Or the same thing.
Compared to this, it really doesn't.
And you're saying that really, at the end of the day, these groups are not interchangeable.
You're saying that they have a different agenda.
Yeah. Right?
You've always stressed that the goal of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is very often the inspirational force behind these guys, is...
A caliphate.
Yes. Right?
And their compromises with secular society or with the West are tactical.
Absolutely. And they're patient.
And as you know, the Muslim Brotherhood memorandum was made in 1991.
And here we are in 2025 talking about a possible Sharia city.
I mean, the Muslim Brotherhood, think about this.
You had Hassan al-Bana who started this.
I'm sorry, in about 1920, so 100 years ago, and he was a school teacher in Egypt.
And that movement has, I mean, talk about...
I'm using the word successful here in its own terms, but I mean, talk about starting an influential movement that takes a hold in Egypt, becomes very powerful.
To me, it's much more powerful than Hamas or Hezbollah.
Why? Because it works through the system.
It works even through democratic systems, and it's even proven to be an exportable commodity.
You know, the Muslim Brotherhood operates in Norway.
It operates in Canada.
It operates in Mexico, in the United States.
It's a worldwide movement.
Yeah, that's a caliphate.
That's what's called a caliphate.
And that's its goal, right?
Its ultimate goal, yes.
Well, I mean, its ultimate goal is to bring the whole world under...
That's right.
Which is not to say, it should be clear, that Islamic law doesn't mean that non-Muslims can't exist.
Oh, no, but we would be inferior to these people.
You're second-class citizens.
That's right.
You sort of are under the thumb.
That's right.
And they keep having babies at a much higher rate than we do.
So in some not-so-far-away year, this could happen.
This actually could happen.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, I make this point in my book, What's So Great About Christianity?
The Christians are making a lot of converts in the non-Western world.
And so, interestingly, Christianity is growing as fast as Islam.
Why? Islam is doing it through reproduction, and Christianity is doing it through conversion.
And the dreams that they have, that's kind of a cool thing.
Yeah, that is something that's happening, and it has a mysterious element to it.
We're talking about Muslims, and dreams are very important in Islam, because there is a sort of...
There's a storied history in the Hadiths and in the Muslim of people being inspired by a dream.
Well, I guess it's in the Bible as well, right?
You know, Pharaoh's wife had a dream.
And so dreams are important in the Abrahamic covenant.
So in Islam, apparently Muslims wake up, they have a dream, and Jesus comes to them in a dream and essentially says, come find me, right?
And then they go to a local pastor.
And they say, I'm coming.
I'm here to...
They call him Isa or they call Jesus Isa, I think.
Isa. I'm looking for Isa.
And in some cases, the pastor's like, well, who's Isa?
Yeah. They're like, no, no, I'm looking for Jesus.
Joshua. Yeah, Yeshua in Hebrew, I guess.
And then you have converts.
Yeah. But this is a case of converting not because you listen to a sermon.
But through direct experience, through dreams.
Yeah, so it has nothing to do with being proselytized or anything like that.
It's just, it's a dream.
Jesus does it, you know?
Prophetic. Very prophetic.
Yeah. Yeah, I think coming back to the issue of these Sharia communities and Islam, the...
I don't think we want to say that Muslims don't have a right to assemble with each other, right?
They can go to the mosque and they can live together if they want.
I think the issue is to what degree should a liberal society allow groups to make their own rules that...
To contravene the rules of the larger society.
Now, I would say to some degree that should be allowed.
And I say that because, you know, let's just take an example of a Catholic school.
A group of Catholics say we want to be able to teach our schools and we want to teach Catholic morality and we don't care about separation of church and state.
In our school, we want to promote Catholic values.
I think we would say that's fine.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
So we don't have any problem with Muslim parents.
Well, we live in a Judeo-Christian country.
Right. But we don't enforce the Judeo-Christian principles even on atheists and non-believers in our own society.
Yeah. No, they go crazy if we try to do that.
Well, what I'm getting at is, so it's unfair to then single out the Muslims and say, hey, listen, you're off the Judeo-Christian track when he goes...
A lot of people who are supposedly within the Judeo-Christian track are off the Judeo-Christian track.
In fact, more than us, right?
Because the Muslim would say, we follow a train of laws that is much closer to the Ten Commandments and the Old Testament than a lot of secular people.
You'd have to admit that's true.
You have your doubts.
I don't know.
I don't know I want to do that.
I don't know that I want to necessarily be in that.
In that space there.
Well, I mean, there are a lot of, and I discussed this again in The Enemy at Home, there are a lot of socially conservative Muslims.
There are a lot of them voted for Bush, as you know.
I know you made the case for that, even this last election.
Like, guys, you know, we really should bring the Muslims.
And I told you many, many times, I'm not against that at all.
Yeah. In fact, you know, we have friends that are Muslim, good friends that are Muslim.
Yeah. That's not it.
What I find appalling is for the Muslims that come to this country that truly do want to change policy, like Ilhan Omar, for example, and others that I know personally
in their own society.
That has been, as you know, this is the same as the border.
That stuff has been facilitated.
By non-Muslim leftists and Democrats.
Who do you think let in all these Somalians to create their own congressional district, right?
This was done under Obama, wasn't it?
Yes. Yeah, so it's the same with the border.
Biden lets in all kinds of thugs.
Expecting those thugs to be long-term assets for the Democratic Party.
And when I say Biden, I think you know I don't mean Biden.
I just mean the whole gangster regime around Biden.
This is their goal, and this is what they have achieved.
So it is a nasty collusion for which the Muslims are participants, but they are actually not the primary orchestrators.
The orchestrators are right here in this country, and they're not Muslims.
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