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Aug. 29, 2024 - Dinesh D'Souza
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THE DRAGON’S PROPHECY Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep907
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Coming up, do the Democrats want Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
on the ballot or off the ballot?
Answer both, I'll explain.
I'm joined by author Jonathan Cahn, whose book, The Dragon Prophecy, draws some startling connections between biblical references and contemporary events.
You'll find this fascinating.
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I want to talk in this opening segment about really two separate things.
The first one is RFK, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and the other is invented narratives by the media.
Now, with regard to RFK Jr., there is no question that his endorsement of Trump An endorsement that has reverberated not just through his followers, but really through the culture.
It's unnerved the left.
The public comment from the Democrats has been dismissive.
A representative of the Harris campaign said something like, well, good riddance, you know, this guy's a marginal guy, you can have him.
But that's not what they say to each other in meetings.
They know it's a real problem and they're trying to do something about it.
I'll get to in a moment what they're trying to do.
But what's kind of amusing is that some of the people around RFK who were suspected to be major leftists, and I think of two.
One is his vice presidential candidate, Nicole Shanahan, who I've now become sort of a super fan of.
Every day she goes on some show and says something new and interesting.
So one day she's talking about the fact that her parents, her mom is Chinese, grew up under wage and price controls and really communism under China.
And she goes, Kamal Harris is basically a communist.
He goes, let's just face it, wage and price controls, that's communism.
So boom, there she goes.
Another day it's something equally illuminating about election fraud or just about the way in which the Democrats have tried to bludgeon this campaign and the hypocrisy of people doing it in the name of democracy.
Her point is democracy requires primaries.
Primaries require the will of Democrats should be expressed in the Democratic candidate.
That is not being done.
It was probably last done with Obama, but from pushing out Bernie Sanders in 2020 to give it to Biden, to now pushing everybody else out and giving it to Kamala Harris, the Democratic Party is really not about democracy at all.
I think the great insight of Nicole Shanahan is what they've been trying to do to Trump, which she says previously I paid no attention to, is exactly what they are trying to do Now, I would argue not quite.
They haven't tried to put Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
in prison yet.
But, they are denying him Secret Service protection, they are threatening him with litigation, they do spy on his campaign, they try to infiltrate, they try to... So a lot of the character assassination, and in some ways you could argue even legal assassination, they are trying to do to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Now the other person of significance here is Robert F. Kennedy Jr.' 's wife, Cheryl Hines.
I mentioned her to Debbie and Debbie's like, I'm not familiar with Sheryl Hines.
I was exposed to Sheryl Hines because of the, um, because of the show with Larry David.
What was the name of that show, honey?
You remember with Larry David?
He had that great show.
Anyway, it was, um, uh, it was, um, uh, I was forced to expose to Sheryl Hines through the Larry David show, you know, where he paid the commercial.
He kind of played himself in the show, but, uh, It was a really fun show, but Sheryl Hines is known, or at least has been known, to be a leftist, to be a liberal.
And so I even saw some posts on social media, Sheryl Hines needs to set Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
straight and let him know that it will be unacceptable to their marriage for him to endorse Trump.
And then I see a comment from Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
The person who told me to pay attention to Trump is my wife, Sheryl Hines.
In other words, Robert F. Kennedy says, I was kind of ignoring Trump.
I was not listening to what he was saying.
I was certainly not trying to.
See, you can sometimes listen to what someone is saying without hearing it.
I mean, think, for example, about some guy who's like a Buddhist and he steps into an evangelical church and he hears, you know, accept Jesus and you will be saved.
The problem is that he is so enmeshed in a sort of cosmology, a paradigm that he hears, but he doesn't really get what he's hearing.
It makes no sense to him.
It's unintelligible to him.
It's so outside of his scope and his worldview.
I think this is what Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
is saying about Trump.
This guy was off, not really on my radar.
I kind of bought into the idea that, oh yeah, he's this, he's that, he's a narcissist, you know, he's a maniac.
And it was not until Sheryl Hines said, you know, basically, honey, you know, just listen to the guy.
Listen carefully to what he's actually saying.
And Robert F. Kennedy goes, when I did, I was like, whoa, that's not, I misunderstood MAGA.
I bought the media caricature.
So all of this is very significant.
Here's the latest development.
Michigan Secretary of State, now this is an absolute witch, Jocelyn Benson.
By the way, someone suspected to be actively involved in the shenanigans of the 2020 election.
But she's refusing to remove Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
from the ballot in Michigan.
Why?
She wants him to take votes away from Trump.
So let's just step back and look at what the Democrats are doing.
First of all, every place that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
has been up against Kamala Harris, They're throwing him off the ballot.
But in the general election, when they think that his name is going to take votes away from Trump, they're insisting that he be on the ballot.
So they don't have a consistent policy.
Should he be on the ballot?
You'd think they'd be like, oh, we either want him on or we want him off.
No.
Basically, when he's up against Kamala, they want him off.
And when he's up against Trump, they want him on.
So this is the absolute, you could call it unscrupulousness of a party that operates by the principles of gangsterism and power.
Nothing, nothing else.
All right, let me turn to the second topic at hand.
And here, this is interesting because it shows that even apologies can be deceptive.
Judy Woodruff, this is the longtime veteran reporter for PBS, reported, and it was then amplified by hundreds of other media sources, that President Trump had pushed Netanyahu not to accept a hostage deal on the grounds that that would help Kamala Harris's campaign.
Now, this is obviously a damaging allegation.
First of all, Trump is not the president.
Second of all, Trump is jumping in here to do something that is actually bad for Netanyahu and for Israel, but it's also done with pure opportunistic motives.
Because if this story is true, then Netanyahu could have gotten hostages back.
But he decided not to because he wants to help Trump.
And that Trump doesn't care about the hostages, doesn't even really care about Israel, he only cares about getting elected once again, and so that Trump prevails upon Netanyahu not to take a hostage deal for this sole reason.
He wants the absence of a deal to help his candidacy.
And then, when people began to say, Judy Woodruff, what is your source for this?
Judy Woodruff basically came out and said, I apologize, I made a mistake.
Now, we start with the fact that ten times more people saw the original report than saw the correction.
And Judy Woodruff said, and here's what I mean about the insincerity even of an apology.
Judy Woodruff goes, you know, I got this from reporting that was done by Axios and Reuters.
And she goes, and I didn't notice lower down in the article that both Netanyahu and Trump denied it.
So Judy Woodruff is making it seem like I'm an honest person.
I saw it reported in Axios and Reuters, two separate news sources.
And yeah, I should have read more carefully because it was denied.
But very often people deny things that are true.
So the very fact that something is denied doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen.
Here's the only problem.
Neither Axios nor Reuters reported this at all.
Neither Axios nor Reuters said that Trump prevailed upon Netanyahu not to accept a hostage deal because it would benefit his candidacy.
So you go back and you look at the Reuters article.
Well, first of all, the Reuters article is nothing more than a rewrite of the Axios article.
And the Axios article says no such thing.
So this snake, Judy Woodruff, is trying to cover her butt by, instead of saying, I made this up out of whole cloth, or I was just out to get Trump, so there's no lie that I won't stoop to, which is by and large the position of the mainstream media.
No one is saying that Judy Woodruff here is unique.
She's basically in the same brand of chronic liar as much of the mainstream media.
But notice that she is, A little bit like the, you know, a little bit like the efforts to cover things up in the Garden of Eden, you know?
Why'd you do it?
I didn't do it.
Oh, you know what?
Uh, here, this other guy right here, Adam, he's the one who made me do it.
Uh, oh, no, my wife is responsible.
She ate first and then she gave it to me, so what could I do?
I had to eat.
What I'm getting at is, this is Judy Woodard.
Oh, no, no, no, it wasn't me.
You know, I might have been a little careless, but I got it from Axios.
I got it from Reuters.
No, you didn't.
You are a liar twice over.
Not only is the original article false, your apology is false, your explanation for where you got this information is also false.
So here in miniature, in a nutshell, in a single example, you see the bottomless dishonesty of the mainstream media.
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Go to SalemNow.com at SalemNow.com Guys, I'm delighted to welcome back to the podcast, author Jonathan Cahn.
He's actually been named, along with Billy Graham, as one of the top spiritual leaders of the last 40 years.
He is a prolific author, and pretty much every one of his books, from The Harbinger to The Josiah Manifesto, have become a New York Times bestseller.
He leads Beth Israel at the Jerusalem Center in Wayne, New Jersey, and Hope for the World Ministry, which is an outreach for God's Word.
He has a new book, and that's what we're going to be talking about.
It's called The Dragon's Prophecy, subtitled Israel, The Dark Resurrection, and The End of Days.
It's available on Amazon.
But also, here's his website, BooksbyJonathanKahn.com.
Jonathan, welcome.
Thanks for joining me.
Thanks for coming back on the show.
This book is really fascinating because it does something that, well, other people try to do this, but I got to say that I think you're the best at doing this because it's connecting ancient prophecy.
It's connecting the Old and New Testament with events happening in the world today.
But let me begin in a very basic way because there's going to be some people who go, well, this is, this is ridiculous.
You know, how can you possibly take a sentence here out of Revelation or out of Daniel and relate it to something happening in the world today?
We know that there are all kinds of televangelists who predict that the world will end in 1983, and then it doesn't, and then it'll end in 1996, and then it doesn't.
So, what is it that you are up to here, Jonathan Cahn, and why should this prophecy business be taken seriously today?
Yeah, well, this is actually, The Dragon's Prophecy is actually the first book I've ever written that totally gets into the realm of end-time prophecy.
The books that I write are, you know, taking ancient mysteries or templates or patterns that are replaying now.
This one does that, what's happening right now, but also how this actually relates to prophecies that are given.
Listen, Dinesh, I was an atheist when I was eight years old, you know, raised in the synagogue.
And when I was 12 or 13, I said, there's got to be something more.
I picked up a book by accident that was called The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey.
And that was all about biblical prophecy.
The fact is, you know, as an atheist, I could not argue with it.
Listen, the very foundation that God is, well, He's got to know what's going to happen.
And biblical prophecy is that.
What amazed me is that everything the Bible said has come true or is coming true.
Israel back in the world, that's all there in the Bible.
And so, you know, it unfolds.
Now, we have to be careful that we can't just jump and say, this is this.
But, you know, there are times it's unmistakable.
What actually triggered all this, Dinesh, was Israel.
I was actually writing, I was going to write the sequel to The Return of the Gods, which is the book, two books before.
But I was interrupted by what happened in Israel.
I'm driving my kids to school, and in my mind comes this dragon, and the dragon I knew is from Revelation.
And the thing is, I don't believe I've ever seen so much end-time prophecy accelerating or the developments as in this last period.
Yeah, let's start by a quote that you have on page 30, which, it's actually two quotes about Israel, and I think this is actually very eye-opening.
You quote, The Lord, this is speaking about the Jews, the Lord will scatter you among all peoples from one end of the earth to the other.
So this is the Bible stating that the Jews are going to be far flung.
There's going to be a Jewish diaspora.
These people who are once all assembled together are going to be flung apart.
And then the Bible says something else.
The Lord your God will bring you back from captivity and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations.
The Lord your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed and you shall possess it.
So seemingly here the astounding prediction And it can be taken like any other prediction.
You know, combine hydrogen and oxygen and you're going to get water.
That's a prediction.
That's a hypothesis.
Let's see if it's true.
Here there's a prediction that these Jews, flung all over the world, are... And I think what's striking about this prediction to me, Jonathan, is that That if you predicted it, let's just say in the first couple of centuries, it would be implausible because the Jews have just been sent away, the temple has been destroyed, the Jews have left.
But it would not be totally surprising if they came back 50 years later or 100 years later.
But with each succeeding century, the prophecy becomes more implausible.
The Jews are gone for 500 years.
The Jews are gone for 1,000 years.
The Jews are gone for almost 2,000 years.
The chance that they could now come back to the same place is very remote.
I mean, I don't know what kind of odds you'd give it, but very low odds.
So I think this is actually a very concrete example of biblical prophecy.
Very clearly stated.
We're not talking about like Nostradamus's vague prophecies.
We're talking about very precise statements about a very identifiable group of people that would maintain their identity and then come back to Israel.
And here we are.
So to me, this is a very, and I'm really glad you gave me, I knew about this, but of course I'm not as good as you in giving chapter and verse, but here you have it.
Start by telling us about the beginning of this book in which you begin with who the Jews are.
Who are the Jews?
What is it that distinguishes them or defines them?
And then you use that as a way of opening the door to introducing that very menacing and yet misunderstood figure, the devil.
Yeah, and everything you shared, it's profound, because also everything is against the odds.
Not only is it prophesied, but it has never happened in history that a nation has been scattered to the ends of the earth, that the world has tried to wipe them out, and then 2,000 years later they come back, and it's all prophesied in their Scriptures.
And by the way, it's also implicit in the New Testament.
Everyone who's a believer, you're a Christian, Jesus, Messiah, said, I am not coming back until the Jewish people say, blessed is He, in Jerusalem.
So it all has to be, and I want to just throw one other thing with this.
That is, because I didn't say this, it was, I was led at the congregation I lead called Beth Israel, I was led on a Friday night to speak about a mystery from the Bible that ordained that there would be an attack on Israel.
It would happen in 2023.
It would happen in October.
It would happen on a Sabbath day, on a Hebrew holy day.
It would happen on the first Saturday of October.
I shared that on October 6th, the next day it happened, the invasion of Israel.
And I'm not saying I know all these things, but God does.
And one of the mysteries of the book is actually that precise that it might even enable us to tell us what is going to happen and exactly when.
What you just shared is really the opening, and it's also, absolutely, there was a, the Jewish people, there was a king, it is said, in Europe, I haven't checked it out, but he said to his minister, it said that, he said, give me one proof of God.
The answer, he says, is the Jew.
The fact is, God said in the Bible, I put you on earth, Jewish people, as a witness that I exist.
It's not that they're better or worse, it's your existence is a witness that I exist.
So, not only the Jewish people have existed where they shouldn't exist, I mean, they should be in museums, you know, with the Hittites and the Amorites, but the other part, and you alluded to it, and that's really what You know, gave the title, The Dragon's Prophecy, is that Jewish history is not only a proof of God, it's also a proof of the other one, of the enemy.
Because, you know, you've got in the Bible, it speaks about a spiritual being that exists to oppose—the name Satan, or Satan means opposer—oppose the purpose of God.
Then you have a nation that is brought into the world to accomplish the will of God, bring the Word, bring God, bring the kingdom.
You're going to have a war.
So it's no accident, just by the Bible, that the Jewish people are going to be the most persecuted, hated, warred against people, not in the ancient times, medieval times, modern times.
The names change, the reasons change, it doesn't matter from the left, the right, it doesn't matter.
This is a cosmic thing going on, and we're just watching a little—what we just saw in the world—we're watching a little phase of a cosmic ancient war.
And so the first—to think about it—the first anti-Semite was an angel, a fallen angelic being and this is the witness of it what we just witnesses in the world.
I mean, that's what really, it kind of caught my attention when you say this, I think at the beginning of your second chapter, which is you say that there was an anti-Semitic angel, and I was like, wait, what do you mean?
And I knew right away what you meant, because you had set it up so well.
What you meant is that if the Jews are the chosen of God, Then the people who go against the Jews have got to be the chosen of someone else.
And who is that but God's supreme antagonist?
And who is that if not the devil?
So when we come back, we're going to push this theme some more to try to see if we can use ancient scripture to illuminate the events of quite specifically the Hamas attack on Israel.
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I'm back with Jonathan Cahn.
We are talking about his book, The Dragon's Prophecy, Israel, The Dark Resurrection, and The End of Days.
It's available on Amazon, but you can also get it at his website, booksbyjonathancahn.com, and you can also follow him on Instagram, jonathan.cahn.
Jonathan, let's think about this a little bit.
We were talking about sort of God's team and then the opposing team, if you will.
And you introduced the idea of the devil.
But we haven't gotten yet to who's on the devil's team, right?
In other words, if we know that the Jews are on God's team, we now have to identify who is on the devil's team.
And you have to admit that in the prophetic literature of the last 30 and 40 years, We have gotten different answers from different people to that question.
I mean, if I go back to Hal Lindsey's book, which, by the way, I read in India when I was about 15 years old before I came to America, and I found it immensely provocative, even though at the time it seemed a little surreal to me.
But if you remember, Hal Lindsey was talking about He identified the enemies of Israel with Russia, with China.
He talked about the possibility of a kind of Russian-Chinese alliance, which, by the way, is not something out of the question even today.
But you hone into a very precise identification.
Talk about who the ancient enemies of the Israelites were and how, in a sense, we're still dealing with the same characters.
Yeah, and by the way, you know, this is not about the people.
We pray for all people, and the people don't know what they're doing, and we've got to pray for that.
But it's the people who are being used.
Now, when you just take it in the spiritual realm, one of the things the Dragon's Prophecy is seeking to do, it's really unveiling The Bible says that the enemy, or the devil, the dragon in Revelation, is an imitator, seeks to imitate God.
God resurrected the ancient nation of Israel.
That's His work.
It's prophesied in the Bible.
So what is the enemy going to do?
He will do his own resurrection, his counter resurrection.
And so what would he do?
He would resurrect an ancient enemy of Israel.
Who were the arch enemies of Israel in ancient times in the Bible?
The Philistines, called the Pilashtim.
And the thing is, could he have done it?
Well, he already has.
And the thing is that there's the people today, and this has become the major issue against Israel, the whole world, are called the Palestinians.
The word Palestinian, people don't realize, it literally means the Philistines.
When Palestinians speak to each other in their language, they don't say Palestinian.
In Arabic, the word is Philistine or Philistini.
And so, literally, it's the same word.
And the amazing thing, Dinesh, is that when you look at ancient history, the Philistines appear on the ancient records like right after Israel did, in the Pharaoh's records, right after.
And now, when Israel started coming back, when the resurrection of Israel, comes this other resurrection that parallels it, that follows it.
You know, as the Zionist movement was just beginning, the next year, the name Philistine starts spreading through the Arabic world.
And when Israel came back into the world, that is when you have an alternate resurrection.
I'll give you an example.
The Philistines in the Bible, they dwelt in a place that we call Philistia or Pilashet.
It was a region there.
Well, today it has a different name.
It's called the Gaza Strip.
The Gaza Strip is ancient Philistia.
And so the other things that it kind of came into existence, you know, people think it always was.
No, Gaza was.
But the Gaza Strip actually was resurrected about 1948, the same year Israel came back.
So the Jews Went to their ancient land the same year, right around that same time, the people called the Philistines went to the land of the Philistines, and that has set the whole stage for everything we've seen from October 7th and Yasser Arafat, everything, Hamas, all that we've seen now.
I mean, in a way, Jonathan, you're saying something that I think is politically very interesting because there are people, as you know, who say that all of Israel just automatically belongs to the Jews and that there's no Palestinian identity or Palestinian presence.
You're not saying that.
You're actually saying, look, if you trace ancient threads, there were two separate groups of people.
I mean, when David went to war with Goliath, who was Goliath?
As I remember, he was a Philistine.
Right?
So this was a miniature of the battle between the Israelites and the Philistines.
You are also saying, which I think is completely right and historically borne out.
In fact, the Romans had given the name Palestine to that region.
And that's why you have Roman coins that talk about Palestine.
I'm not telling you things you don't know, but I want our audience to know that we're kind of speaking the same language here.
And you're saying that The conflict that we see today, while of course one can understand it in specifically political terms as Hamas is striking out against Israel, that there is an ancient resonance here.
This is a recreation of the battle between the Israelites and the Palestinians, but that in a way the Palestinians, or at least the Muslims who are launching the attack, May not realize that they have become the weaponry of the devil.
Am I correctly summarizing your message?
Yes.
You know, the thing is that they don't realize it.
And the thing is that it's amazing, Dinesh, because when you look at the Bible, this people is being conformed into that image.
I mean, you mentioned Goliath.
The Bible says that Goliath was trained as a man of war since he was a child.
In Palestinian culture, they do the same thing.
They train their children as child soldiers, you know.
But even what happened is in ancient times, they actually attacked Israel from what is now the Gaza Strip.
They launched raids, they attacked Israeli villages, they committed atrocities, and they took them back as captives.
To Gaza!
I mean, even the story of Samson is the story of taking an Israelite to Gaza as a captive.
I mean, you know, so it's all replaying.
And the Bible even gives, even pinpoints, in the book, there's an actual little region that pinpoints where they attacked, and it was the exact place where that music festival was, where the kibbutzes were.
So everything is replaying.
And even, you know, we talk about, like, Hamas, which is behind this.
Hamas is an Arabic word, but it's also strange because it's also a Hebrew word.
And in Hebrew, Hamas means evil, death, and destruction.
And it actually appears in the Bible.
And when you take it in the Hebrew, and you look at it, you find things like the psalmist praying, Lord, save me from the man of Hamas.
Or, Hamas has risen up as a rod of evil in the land.
Or, you know how Hamas hides in the tunnels to this day.
It says in the Bible, Hamas dwells in the dark places of the earth.
I mean, so it's all, we're watching an ancient mystery, Dinesh.
You know, I think what's interesting about all this is this, and that is that when we think about prophecy, we sometimes think of it in a narrow sense that prophecy is merely about prediction.
Like somebody says, this is what's going to happen in 2024.
Like Trump is going to be reelected.
I'm prophesying that right now.
But I think what you're doing is you're doing something that's, which actually echoes the Hebrew prophets, right?
Because the Hebrew prophets weren't just predictors.
As I recall, the Hebrew prophets would go before the king and go, there's all this sin in the land, you need to stop doing this stuff or God's going to punish you.
The Hebrew prophets were strong critics of the societies that they lived in, that the current practice is going on.
They weren't just futurists in the sense that we think of prophets.
And what you're doing is you're using biblical templates.
To say, look, I'm not predicting what's going to happen so much as I'm showing you a way of understanding what's going on now.
Not in the future, but now.
But seen through the lens of things that are described and prophesied in these sacred scriptures.
Would you say that's the task of not just this book, but in general your work?
Yeah, which, and you know, the prophetic, you're right, the prophetic ministry was not only foretelling, it's foretelling.
And it is really putting everything, God's Word is so deep.
There are patterns, there are templates, there are things that are replaying, there are things that are foretold that are going to happen.
You know, one of the things that, the largest probably section of the Dragon's Prophecy is called the End of Days, because there are things that the Bible does say.
Now, we don't know exactly when, but the amazing thing, I will also say, is that all these events that we're watching, that are replaying in many ways, they also were, in many ways, an acceleration of things that are actually spoken in the Bible.
The Bible speaks about Iran in the last days.
It speaks about everything, Ezekiel speaks about a number of nations that are actually gonna be enemies of Israel, come against them.
Every single one of them was involved in October 7th.
And even the fact that, you know, the Bible says that Iran, literally Iran, there's no debate, is gonna attack Israel.
Now, it's still yet to come, but it has never happened.
But for the first time ever in human history, this year, Iran actually attacked Israel.
There's so many mysteries.
So we are—it is accelerating.
So it's—everything you said, Dinesh, and it is yet—things are also coming.
What the Bible said will come.
We're not setting dates, but we want to be ready and we want to be strong.
The other thing is—this goes with what you said—is that it's not just, you know, what's going to happen.
But the fact is, there is a war going on.
It's spiritual.
It has been going on.
It's against Israel, but it's also against God's people who follow the Lord in every way.
There's a war.
The Bible speaks about the dragon in the last days.
There's going to be persecution.
We're going to be standing very strong.
God's people have to become more radical because the days are more radical.
And so it's also about how to be prepared and how to fight.
I mean you gave me a thought right now which I want to share with you.
It's a little bit out there and it's not something I've thought about before, but it is the fact that if the return of the Jews to their original homeland is implausible, So is the return of the enemies of Israel.
And let me explain why I'm saying that because, I mean, you sound like you've already thought of this and you're ahead of me, but here's what I mean.
If one were to flash back to the middle of the 20th century, there was Ataturk in Turkey, there was the Shah, Reza Shah in Iran, These were secular guys.
They were talking about moving their countries away from sort of Sharia law.
They wanted westernization.
They wanted modernization.
They wanted scientific development.
And we've seen a remarkable reversal that not everyone, in fact, very few people saw coming.
A pullback in Turkey toward Islamism.
Of course, the Iranian revolution, which again, when it happened in 1979, I remember a lot of analysts thought, well, this is going to last a year or two, and nobody wants to be ruled by these mullahs.
But here we are, 50 years later, and they've consolidated a very powerful Islamic regime that is almost the node center of the resistance to Israel.
It's kind of a way of saying that the prophecy is equally surprising on both sides of the aisle.
You agree?
There's so much, Dinesh, what you're saying.
I mean, you could do like five hours on this, but it's so profound.
Because yes, there's a return.
One of the things the Bible says about anti-prophecy, it's a return.
And there's something in the Bible called a chiasmus, you better know, and that is that the beginning and the end are the same.
And so, there is so much to that, that the beginning of the age and the end of the age are the same.
For instance, even with the church age, the beginning of the age was not a Christian culture, it was an anti-Christian culture, pagan culture.
Well, we're watching that happen right now.
And so, at the same time, you mentioned Iran, the Bible actually speaks about an entity called the Sarparas, which means the ruler of Iran that actually exists to destroy Israel.
And so, it's almost like with the Iranian Revolution, It kicked in.
It's like everything is coming back to the beginning and returning.
So when Israel comes back, it almost triggers everything else that is going to come against it, which really is totally biblical.
So yes, there's so much to what you just said.
You know, I touch on it and there's more, but it is profound.
But yes, everything is returning.
And I would say also the church, God's people, have to return to where they were at the beginning, which is the book of Acts.
We have to become radical revolutionary because everything has to go the way it was.
And also the church and Israel have a link together.
You know, we are called spiritual Israelites.
You are spiritual Israelis.
So if they become strong and fighter, you know, fighting in the last days, we have to become strong and fighting too.
I know you are that, but we all have to be that.
We have to fight in the spiritual realm and stand strong.
So yeah, it's a great mystery.
Everything is returning.
The last days are the days of Teshuva return.
Incredible stuff.
Guys, I've been talking to Jonathan Cahn, the book The Dragon's Prophecy, the website booksbyjonathancahn.com.
Jonathan, great stuff.
Thank you for joining me.
Always a joy.
Thank you.
I'm beginning chapter 10 of Booker T. Washington's Up from Slavery and he begins the chapter by saying that he wanted to have a campus at Tuskegee with buildings that were built by the students and the staff and the teachers.
And he says that This would have two benefits.
One, the school would get the benefit because this would be done largely for free.
In other words, the students would be using their labor in part as compensation for their education.
But he says, second and more important, He says, the students themselves would be taught to see not only utility in labor, but beauty and dignity, and would learn to love work for its own sake.
Now, here we come to a really important theme, which is Booker T. Washington's idea that, and it's almost a theological idea, even though he doesn't, he's not a theologian, he's not going to spell out the theological implications of it, but kind of goes to the heart of what you think man is.
Is man a recreational being, a social being, or is it part of man's nature, and therefore of his dignity, obviously by man here I mean humans, I don't just mean men, to work?
And to work both with your head and with your hands.
So this is Booker T. Washington's philosophy.
That work is a part of our fulfillment as human beings.
That there is a, as he puts it, beauty.
In it, there's a dignity in it, a sense of self-satisfaction.
Look at that building.
I helped put that up.
And he says also, to learn to love work for its own sake.
Now, normally when most of us work, we get paid for it.
And the payment is the recompense for the work.
Think of someone, for example, who's watching for the weekend.
Oh, gee, man, I can't wait for the week to get over so I can take time off.
Then, in a sense, what you could say is that person is buying recreation with their labor that they put in five days a week, and then they essentially buy two free days off.
This notion is a little remote from Booker T. Washington's idea.
His idea Is that you should love work and if you love work and do it well and get satisfaction out of it then the recreation is not a payment for the work.
The work is a payment for itself.
The idea is that you get a pleasure out of achievement, out of what you've actually done.
The recreation offers a different kind of pleasure, but it's not that one is needed to recompense for the other.
There are two separate features of human nature.
Man needs to work.
You know, Genesis 1, 2 and 3, and Man Needs Rest.
Both go kind of complementary to each other.
Now...
Booker T goes on to say, he says, I know that the buildings we put up would not be maybe the most finished.
He goes, we could have gotten professional workers to do it.
But he says, but if the buildings were a little too cold or they had some problems with them, he says, nevertheless, the educational value of learning to do it ourselves would be worth, quote, would compensate for any lack of comfort.
That's how he put it.
And he says that, I don't know.
I didn't really come here to work.
who doubted the wisdom of this plan, and let's remember there are people even then, his own students who are like, I don't know, I didn't really come here to work, I came here to study.
He says that the majority of our students came to us in poverty and from the cabins of the cotton, sugar and rice plantations of the South.
And while I knew it would please the students very much to place them at once in finely constructed buildings, I felt it would be following out a more natural process of development to teach them how to construct their own buildings.
Mistakes I knew would be made, but these mistakes would teach us valuable lessons for the future.
Now, let's dwell on this.
One thing I find about Booker T. Washington, and I've found this now on re-reading this book, which I hadn't read for many, many years, that you can actually dwell on these sentences and think through them and get a lot more out of them than there is even quite in them, in the sort of straightforward meaning of what he's saying.
Let me tell you what I get out of this.
Think of somebody who just wins the lottery, and they live in a two-bedroom house, but they happen to pick the right number, and let's not even say that they won the Powerball, they just won $10 million.
And suddenly they think, oh my gosh, I've gotta go nuts!
I've gotta buy a boat, I gotta get a real estate agent, I need to get on one of those TV shows maybe, where I'm now searching for like a $4 million house.
Can you afford a $4 million house if you have $10 million?
No, you cannot.
You might think you can.
Well, wait a minute, don't I have six million dollars left over?
Yeah, you do, but first of all, if you win ten million dollars, you don't get ten million dollars.
You get more like six, because of taxes.
Second of all, if you get six, and you spend four, and you got two left over, how are you going to pay the upkeep and the taxes on the house?
In a house like that, you're going to have a thousand dollar a month, you know, gardening bill.
Do you have enough interest on the two million dollars to pay for the upkeep and the taxes on that house?
You do not.
Ergo, this house is too much for you.
You shouldn't do it.
Booker T. Washington sort of knows all this.
And what he's saying is that it is human nature.
You know, look at all these poor guys who have come to the school.
They've all had hard lives.
They've all worked in the field.
So yeah, They'd be like, oh man, I want to live in a, I want to have a really comfortable quarters.
I want to have some, you know, some central air if I can get it.
I want to have my, I want to have, you know, meals with appetizers and main entrees and dessert.
And Booker T is like, you know what?
Let's go step by step.
You are coming from a cabin that really was bitterly cold in the winter.
If we build our own structures here on this campus, they're going to be better than that.
Now they may not be as good as a sort of commercial hotel, but it is a step up, and it is a natural step up, and it has the added value that you built it.
So Booker T is outlining here what may be called the natural, well he uses the term, a natural process of development.
A natural process of development, I've talked about it educationally.
I've talked about how there's no point learning calculus or reading a French grammar, to use one of Booker T. Washington's own examples, before you've learned the multiplication table.
And you haven't learned some basic French conversational words that would enable you to get by, hello, good evening, ordering off a menu, start there.
Then worry about being able to say fancy phrases that go way beyond that.
So there's an educational process of development, but Booker T. is going beyond that.
He's saying there's a human process of development, and as we come up in life, you don't, It's not the best thing for you to go from like 0 to 60.
You know, if you got a new car, maybe, oh, this car goes from 0 to 60.
But in life, it's kind of better to go from 0 to 10, and 10 to 20, and make your way up that way.
That's what Booker T is getting at.
Now, He says, he says, during our now 19 years of existence, remember he's writing in 1901, he says 40 buildings, small and large, have been built.
He says all except four we built ourselves.
And he says, skill and knowledge are now handed down from one set of students to another in this way.
And he says, we can look at buildings of different descriptions and sizes that were constructed wholly by our instructors and students, from the drawing of the plans to the putting in of the electric fixtures, without going off the grounds for a single workman.
Wow!
All done, you may say, at home, in internally.
And he said, and this is where he gets to the issue of dignity and pride, pride in the best meaning of the term, not pride in the sense of being puffed up, but pride in the sense of satisfaction on a job well done.
Not a few times when a student has been led into the temptation of marring the looks of some building by lead pencil marks or the cuts of a jackknife, Leeroy was here.
Jack loves Jill.
Booker T is like, the moment someone does that, I've heard an old student remind him, don't do that.
That's our building.
I helped to put it up.
So you don't need rules.
You don't need signs.
Please don't do graffiti on the buildings.
Why?
The students built the buildings.
They have a sense that this building was the result of their labor.
And so they take pride in it and they look after it.
You might have heard the phrase, nobody ever washed a rental car.
This is the philosophy that we're seeing articulated here.
Why don't you wash a rental car?
It's not yours.
You didn't buy it.
You didn't save up for years or for months to put the down payment on the car.
You don't have a sense of pride in the car.
Similarly here, what Booker T. Washington is talking about is that labor is valuable not simply because it gets things done, it puts buildings up, it's valuable also because of what it does for your inner nature and for your character.
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