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Aug. 2, 2024 - Dinesh D'Souza
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KAMALOT Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep888
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Coming up, lots to talk about this week.
And Debbie and I will do our Friday roundup.
We're going to talk about Camelot.
This is the effort to turn Kamala Harris into Camelot.
And also about some of the latest revelations about the Trump assassination attempt and also Maduro and the 2024 election.
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This is the Dinesh D'Souza podcast.
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Dabina here for our Friday roundup and boy there's a lot that's happened this week, a lot to talk about in the sphere of politics.
But I thought we'd say a word about your mom's funeral, which was last weekend, and just a beautiful ceremony.
And I was very honored and pleased to do the tribute.
And you had to warn me a little bit not to go too crazy.
And I think I obliged.
But the point I wanted to make about your mom, and stress in the tribute, was just that she was an ordinary person who lived a very extraordinary life.
And I made the point that You know, by the standards of the world, people would say, well, she wasn't famous, you know, she wasn't rich, she wasn't successful in that sense.
And I made the point that she had a very successful life.
Yeah, you're giving me cry.
She was kind of, you know, she was like really good at life.
She taught a whole generation of students.
She was a really good mom to you and your brother, AJ.
And she had innumerable friends.
She made friends everywhere she went.
Yeah.
So as a result, she's left.
I mean, just think of all the people who were there and how affectionately they spoke about your mom.
So anyway, I'm not...
I mean, mourning is gonna take a while.
It doesn't go away right away.
You know, every once in a while I break down and I, you know, I'm good for most of the day.
Yeah.
But then I just, sorry.
Well, when we were coming to the podcast on a daily basis, you would call your mom.
And I would sometimes just be eavesdropping or I would drop in with like a joke or a quip.
But it was actually, you had a very good rapport with her on a daily basis.
And honestly, that's something you're going to miss, right?
Because it's in your muscle memory and you probably are like, I'm ready to call my mom.
Well, where's my mom?
Yes.
And the other thing that I've been doing a lot, and I don't know if this is part of the healing.
I'm sure it is.
You know, I didn't have this with my dad.
I had one recording of my dad that I listened to a lot after he passed away.
And even that got a little easier with time.
And with my mom, I have all her voicemails.
I also have her phone, so I sometimes will call it to listen to her recorded message.
Hi, I can't come to the phone.
My mom kept going on and on, and then it cut off, because my mother loved to do that.
She would leave messages on my phone that were like five minutes long, and it would finally cut off, or several minutes long, and it would finally cut off.
And that was just my mom.
She didn't understand technology.
And it was the same way with Facebook.
You know how she would leave messages on Facebook thinking that it was just us reading the message when she'd go on your Facebook page and she would write things that people, that is not really preppy.
Not for public consumption per se.
No.
You're like, Mom, this is Dinesh's public page.
I go, Mom, four million people can see this.
Please, no, take it down.
I can't delete it, Mom, please, you know?
But anyway, my mom was a sweetheart, and I tell you, it's, you know...
She was 88, and that is a very long life, but for me, not long enough.
Well, you made a point about your dad.
You lost your dad when you were 17.
And so, in a sense, you were raised by a single parent in a double sense.
Your mom brought you to America, and so from the age of 10, you had only your mom.
Your dad was alive, but not present, not there on site.
And then your dad died seven years later.
So you've had your mom your full life.
And she's been your rock, right?
And so it is tough.
All right, let's talk about politics.
And I don't think you've had a chance on the podcast to react to the emergence of Kamala Harris and what we're calling in our description, Camelot.
In fact, we didn't come up with this.
I wish we had.
It's very clever.
It's the effort to romanticize Kamala Harris.
It's an effort to create Kamalot.
This was actually the title.
I think of, I don't know if it's New York Magazine or one of those propaganda outlets.
And they, you know, what's funny is on the cover of the magazine, they have Obama, they have Schumer.
And all these people are like giving a cheer or they're doing a high five.
It's so unnatural.
And I think that summarizes the way in which they're trying to manufacture this spontaneous, like, wellspring of feeling for her.
It's not really there, but the media is like, we think we can fake it.
We think that the American people are stupid enough that if we give them enough images of people jumping up and down, they'll go, wow, everyone must be so excited about Kamala Harris.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, I don't know what the intellect of the majority of the American people is, and I don't know if they're going to be stupid enough to believe that this woman is now actually something great.
Other than she's known her to be.
Other than a dimwit.
She's been really absent.
and absent-minded this entire time. Not to mention she was complicit in the whole hiding that Biden was senile and not able to carry on his position as president.
Not to mention that she was his point person for the border.
Yeah.
So in other words...
She was named Border Czar, right?
And then now, I don't know if you noticed, they're trying to take that away.
Like, we never said she was Border Czar.
She was never over the border.
They're trying to literally make you think that they didn't do that.
So this is the way they operate, and so it's important to diagnose, for example, how a fact-checker will handle this.
So if I'm a leftist fact-checker, this is how I deal with it.
I say, the right is falsely labeling Kamala Harris, quote, borders are.
Now, I will have to admit in the text of the article that Biden did in fact name her as his point person on the border but perhaps he didn't use the actual phrase border czar and therefore the fact that the right is calling her a border czar we rate this False!
You know, this is how these fact-checkers are.
In other words, this is how they take something that is true and they make it false.
And this is how they erase history.
In fact, with Axios it was even so blatant because they realized that they themselves had used the phrase borders are to refer to her like three years earlier.
So they went back and stealth edited their old articles to remove the references to Borders are and so that they could now say because they knew that somebody's gonna go oh well guess what you yourself called her the borders are so they're like we gotta go change that so nobody can dredge it up so this is the It's shocking!
I know.
We are on to these guys and so it's not shocking to us.
But it is shocking.
I mean, at a certain naive level, the idea that you could have a free press that has become essentially a Goebbels operation... Honey, first of all, it's not a free press.
I mean, really.
These people are the other arm of this regime.
And they see themselves that way.
Unlike Venezuela, where the regime forces the media to tout what they want, this regime doesn't have to.
Right.
They're hand in hand.
I mean, it's so true that, you know, with, I mentioned Goebbels, and under Goebbels, the propaganda ministry would issue an edict.
You have to do this.
This is opposition.
Everybody has to go along, otherwise we'll arrest you.
In America, they don't have to do that.
No.
And they don't have to even get everybody on a Zoom call because these are willing apparatchiks who, if you told them, you need to report tomorrow morning that the sun doesn't rise in the east, it arises in the west, some obliging troupe of fact-checkers would be like, you know what?
And they would do the most unbelievable gymnastics.
They would say things like, well, you know, not only does the sun not rise in the east, the sun doesn't really rise at all.
Because after all, it is the earth that goes around the sun and not the sun that goes around the earth.
So we can't speak of the sun rising because it's the earth.
So, in other words, they will do every intellectual gymnastic to Ultimately, get people to believe a falsehood.
That's the business they're in now.
Yeah.
And do you think, I mean, look, I know that the far left and the left, they do rally around whoever their candidate is.
I mean, they even rallied around Biden for a little while until they couldn't anymore because it was obvious, right?
But do you really think the middle-of-the-road American is going to not only be okay with the fact that for three years their party lied to us about the state of the mental capacity of the president, but now all of a sudden they're putting this woman who is famous for her, what do they call her?
Oh, what do you call it?
What she does, her salad, her word salad and things like that.
Do you really think that they are going to now turn this woman into like an intellectual goddess?
I don't think it's going to work because it's a little bit, it's actually very similar to what happened with Biden.
Remember that in the weeks leading up to Biden's withdrawal from the race, there was a massive effort to not only frop him up, but claim that he's actually a genius.
You remember morning, Joe?
He's like, you know, I talk on a regular basis to Biden and Biden is getting smarter.
He goes, this Biden we have now, in other words, comatose, totally gone, sitting in the canoe, looking around Biden.
He goes, that's the best Biden ever.
That's his quote.
Best Biden ever.
Better than we've ever seen him before.
So they reach a certain level of nonsense and then they realize the propaganda is not selling.
That's when they have to.
But with Kamala, they're not going to be able to backpedal, I don't think, at this point.
They're going into the final lap.
So let's take a pause.
We'll be back to talk more about Camelot.
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I'm back with Debbie.
We're talking about Camelot, Kamala Harris, and we got to react to this encounter between Trump and these black journalists, specifically a female journalist who begins to attack Trump and the issue of Kamala Harris comes up.
And here I think Trump goes where no other Republican would go, because most other Republicans... Except you.
Well, I mean, no Republican running for president.
I would not only go there, I've already gone there, and I've gone there actually at a level that even I don't think Trump is fully aware of, which is pretty funny, and we can talk about it in a moment, but here's what Trump said.
He basically goes, wait a minute, This woman was being trumpeted for a long time as being, like, the first, you know, Asian Indian to be, you know, a senator in America.
There were profiles of her in Indian magazines.
She was claiming to be Indian.
If you look at this photo with her family, they're all in saris.
And he goes, like, when did she become black?
He goes, suddenly she's black.
Now, the left's answer to that is gonna be, well, you know, her dad is from Jamaica.
But the problem with that is that that's based on the assumption.
You think, oh, well, her dad is some kind of Rastafarian.
He's some Jamaican guy, mon.
No, no.
Her father is a very cultivated, light-skinned Jamaican man who is descended from the guy who is arguably the largest white slave owner in Jamaica.
So in other words, this guy does have some black Lineage, but not a lot.
I mean, I would not be totally surprised if Kamala Harris had the same percentage of black as you do.
Namely 10%.
I'd like to see her ancestry or 23 and me.
And in fact, at one point this came up because Kamala Harris was asked something like, have you ever smoked pot?
Right?
Here's what Kamala Harris goes, she goes, well, she goes, I'm from a Jamaican family man, you know, she's trying to act like some kind of, that this was some sort of, and her father issued a public statement, and he goes, and he has a little bit of a, he was a professor by the way, and he has a little bit of a sort of a clipped English accent, he goes, I wish to divest myself from this sort of lunacy.
In other words, what he's trying to say is, This woman is making slanders on our family.
We are not some sort of a weed-smoking, you know, Rastafarian operation.
Not at all.
That's not how we see ourselves.
And in fact, Laura Loomer just released Kamala Harris's birth certificate.
Race?
Caucasian.
No way.
Oh yeah, Caucasian.
And as a reference to her Indian ancestry, of course, Indian Americans are Caucasian racially, so we shouldn't confuse race and skin color.
So anyway, this has all come in, but I thought two things are interesting.
One is this sort of remaking of Kamala Harris, because the black journalist, what she identifies as black, and I'm thinking to myself, well, okay, I'm Asian Indian.
If I identify as black, do I become black?
It's the same issue that we raise when we're talking about the trans.
Identifying doesn't make you something.
And she, to be honest, these politicians, especially Democrats, will identify with whoever they think their base is.
So, if they think their base is black, they identify as black.
If they think their base is Latino, they'll identify as Latino or act Latino.
You remember when Obama used to go in front of the Latinos?
He'd start speaking like he was Latino.
Well, she's doing that already.
Kamala Harris has already started her routines, and you can see it.
She's got the cadence.
She puts on the Southern drawl.
It's, again, like you say... So ridiculous.
You wonder whether these audiences are not alert to this kind of thing.
I mean, I do not believe that the ordinary person is that stupid.
And here's why I say that.
Honey, think about it this way.
You take the ordinary American and you put them in a movie, watching a movie, right?
In the audience.
Movies will often convey information through just the raising of an eyebrow, through a glance.
And people are very smart about picking up when someone is being cagey, someone is lying.
Oh, you know, I think that's the real killer, not the obvious suspect.
People are actually very shrewd about being able to make these kinds of deductions, not about sort of abstract intellectual matters, but about human matters.
And that's why I say to myself, they're gonna be able to see through this.
This is a massive charade.
But they didn't see through Obama.
But Obama was- They didn't even see through Biden.
Well, I think they did.
They did.
They did.
And with Obama, you have to admit, you were dealing with... A snake.
You were dealing with a supreme, shrewd, cunning... Obama's rhetoric was not far left-wing.
He sounded like someone who was, you know, really cogitating and deliberating on the issues.
And I think people felt There were conservatives at Harvard Law School who voted for Obama to be the president of the Law Review because he convinced them that he was the one guy, unlike the other liberals, who would listen to them and hear them out.
So they knew this was a contest among liberals, but they chose him as their favorite liberal, not realizing They were basically going for Barack Lucifer Obama.
Yeah.
They had no idea.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Well, I saw right through him and only because, look, when, you know, we'll talk about Venezuela a little bit later, but the rhetoric was identical to Hugo Chavez's rhetoric because, as you know, he came in also acting like he was middle of the road.
Yeah.
And he fooled a lot of people, including your grandparents.
Exactly.
Absolutely.
So, you know, he didn't fool me and this woman certainly doesn't fool me either, and let's hope that she doesn't fool the rest of America because this is really, really bad.
So, let's talk about the Secret Service.
What are you thinking?
Right.
So, the acting director testified this past week, and I thought it was just a horrible evasion of responsibility.
Basically, here's what he said.
Lots of mistakes were made.
Now whenever someone says lots of mistakes were made in the passive voice, I'm on my guard.
Because what you're really saying, instead of saying, I made a mistake, or the deputy director made a mistake, you say mistakes were made.
So he said lots of people fell short, but he said no one would be disciplined or fired.
So in other words, what these guys do, whenever they're called to the carpet, They say, oh, we are part of a secret agency.
Check out our name, Secret Service.
Therefore, we're going to keep our secrets.
We're not really going to tell you what actually happened.
And in fact, I talked earlier in the week about how they've been putting out this sort of clearly false narrative that this guy, Thomas Crooks, was some kind of a right winger.
And as I pointed out, this is not the case.
From what we know, the guy was pro-Biden, he was anti-Trump, he was basically against Trump's border policies.
This is what was motivating him.
I mean, you don't need to be a genius to figure out he hated Trump, right?
Because there's a reason he was trying to assassinate Trump.
And so you have to start there.
What is it about Trump That made him target Trump.
He didn't go after anyone else.
So, but the FBI, I think, not the FBI, the Secret Service is engaged in a sort of a camouflage operation on this with regard to the guy's motives.
They would love to show he was some sort of a disturbed right winger, because then they'll argue, well, Trump himself has created the toxic atmosphere that produced a guy.
So in other words, blame Trump for the assassination attempt on Trump.
Yeah.
That's what they're going for.
Yeah.
So, it's interesting because, you know, I guess it has to be at the top level of the Secret Service because, as you know, the agents, I think, are right wing.
I think they are.
At least for some of them.
You know, when we were in Mar-a-Lago a week or so ago, as we come in, he has Secret Service everywhere, They all greeted you, hi Mr. D'Souza, they all know who you are and they're very friendly.
Yeah.
One of them was chatting with me and you know, all of those things.
So I don't know, I think it must be really difficult for these guys that actually, you know, our secret service to him, his detail, if they are loyal and if they are right wing, to take orders from an otherwise not right wing.
I mean, and I think that must have happened in the FBI and the CIA.
In other words, the corruption of these agencies at the top must have been difficult for patriots who work in those agencies at the lower or all the way down.
And look, I mean, you know, we've been critical.
I've been critical of the Secret Service and obviously I've been sharing memes about the female agents who are too short or they're fumbling for putting the gun in the holster or they're pretending to do something or they really don't know what's going on.
But there were several agents who were right on top of Trump immediately.
And that shows that those guys were absolutely willing to take a bullet that was aimed at Trump.
And these are the guys who knocked Trump out of his shoes.
And so we have to commend the heroic people who are willing to do that.
Yeah, it's really too bad that the agency itself cannot keep, you know, I don't know if it's politics or whatnot, but the fact that they kind of go on the cheap when it comes to Trump's detail tells me a lot.
Because do they do that with Obama?
Let's say Obama does a rally.
Are they shortchanging him?
Oh, let's move some of his Secret Service to Jill Biden.
Probably not.
Yeah, so what that means is that, and this is the way in which I think the White House has corrupted the agencies of government even from doing their job.
In other words, they corrupt the military, they corrupt the Secret Service, they certainly corrupted the DOJ.
But it goes beyond the DOJ.
They've corrupted DHS, the Homeland Security Department.
So there have always been traditional functions that these agencies do that are not subject to the whims of partisan politics.
But I think what Biden and Harris have done is they have politicized even those functions.
So it's like, well, why are we giving all the security to Trump?
You know, he's not our friend.
He's not on our side.
That kind of thinking.
You know, it used to be we would never dream of thinking in the Reagan or Carter era that, for example, the Secret Service would be more protective of Reagan or more protective of Carter.
It never crossed our mind.
We're like, that's the Secret Service's job.
But now I think we have to think that way because that is the reality of the situation.
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Debbie and I have one more segment together for today.
And I thought I would ask, honey, your opinion on Venezuela.
Not only have you been following all of this, but you're getting now all these media requests You're going to do one on Saturday and I'm sure others will come in to look at this I think from your point of view, utterly predictable election.
I mean, you could see before the election there was a lot of, like, false hope.
People like, okay, well this time we're gonna get him, we're gonna get Maduro, the tide is turning against him, popular sentiment.
And I think the point that you want to make, and I want you to develop it, is at some point popular sentiment doesn't matter at all.
Well, look, I think I have severe PTSD when it comes to Venezuela, the elections, and even somewhat the American elections.
Yes, I've been following Venezuelan elections for the last 25 years.
I've been on this for forever, really.
From the very first time that Hugo Chavez was recalled in 2004, okay, when Maria Corina, she wasn't, you know, she wasn't anybody really then, she went after Hugo Chavez.
Because all of the things that he campaigned on, he did not do.
In fact, he even said that, look, if after five years I'm not doing my job, recall me.
Yeah, so let's back up just so people understand what's happening.
Hugo Chavez comes in in the late 1990s.
1999, yes.
And I think you even said that his original election, he won.
Right.
He came in as a third-party guy, and he basically said the other parties are all corrupt.
I'm going to come in and straighten the place out.
Right.
So the left party backed him.
So it wasn't a third party.
It was really, he was running on the party.
He was running on a different party, but the left backed him.
So really, Acción Democrática He was their guy.
Yeah, right, right.
And then the golpe and all the other parties that kind of Dismantled weren't able to keep it together.
Yeah, they really self-destruct so he comes in he makes these promises Like you say he says he's not a socialist.
He's not a communist and he says I will attract businesses Now he doesn't do any of those things and so in 2004 a popular not only that but he starts expropriate Expropriating property and land.
And he starts taking it away and people are like, what is this guy?
Not only that, he goes into his anti-semitism, which nobody even knew he had.
And then he starts like, you know, praising Hitler and all these other things.
And he starts talking about how the white settlers, so all of this, you know, anti-colonialism all of a sudden starts We'll talk about the 2004 election because in a way it is such a mirror of what happened now.
What happened in 2004 and compare it to what happened a few days ago.
Right.
So as I said, he had said that if he wasn't doing his job and he was doing a terrible job, people could recall him.
So they did in 2004.
And exit polls, you know, people were excited about it because they're like, okay, we're finally gonna get rid of this guy, you know.
So what happened was in 2004, He decided that he was going to invest money into some machines.
And I'm not going to talk about the machines because I think everybody already knows what they are.
But anyway, so he said, yeah, you know, go ahead and recall me.
It's fine.
You know, so the, the, as people started leaving, which are called exit polls, they started tallying it up and it looked as though 60% was against him, and 40% was for him.
So they were like, yeah, this guy's going to get recalled.
In the middle of the night, all of a sudden, it goes the other way.
So he wins by landslide, 60% to 40%, the opposition.
It's almost like the switch.
The switch, yeah.
And so everyone was, guys, this is fraud.
And of course, the Carter Center, Jimmy Carter went down there.
He was like, oh no, this is not fraud.
He won fair and square, all this stuff, and it's like, no, he didn't.
But that was- I mean, it is amazing when you think back how many countries Jimmy Carter helped to destroy.
Oh my gosh.
We can name at least two.
Venezuela is definitely one of them.
Iran.
Iran is definitely the other.
So this guy, anyway.
So anyway, so from that time, they have cheated in every election.
Every single one.
So your point is what why did anyone even think for a moment?
For one moment.
That they would not have this in the bag before it even got started.
And it's important to realize here that with Venezuela, unlike America, they've already taken over the court.
Right.
And it was to talk about the role of the Supreme Court in taking the leading candidate Maria Corina and throwing her off the ballot.
Right.
Well, before even Maduro came on in the picture, you know, with Hugo Chavez hated Maria Corina.
He tried to put her in jail and probably tried to take her out several times.
But Maduro certainly hated her.
And when she decided, you know what?
I've had enough.
The citizens of Venezuela have had enough.
And all of the people that 7 million Venezuelans have left Venezuela.
Seven million, okay?
Four of them are here in America.
Many of them, unfortunately, are not the kind of Venezuelans that we want in America.
As you know, the last, I don't know, year or so... Open border... We've had criminals... The worst people pouring in, yeah.
Yeah, the worst people, they really broke open their prisons and decided that all the criminals were gonna come to America, and Maduro let it happen.
By the way, I love these...
You know, we see these, quote, fact-checking articles, because Trump has been going around saying that the Venezuelan crime rate went down 67% because all these criminals are coming here.
And then the fact-checkers go, well, data is very hard to come by in Venezuela.
We cannot corroborate the 67% number, not to mention that there are many reasons why the crime rate might have gone down or gone up.
So, more evidence of how they They try to refute things that are obviously true, but nevertheless, this is the way they go about the refutation.
So continue.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So anyway, so as I was saying, you know, Maria Corina, her mantra was not make Venezuela great again.
It was bring Venezuela back from the grave.
Okay.
That's how bad it is.
And bring the Venezuelans back.
And bring the Venezuelans back to their home country to make it prosperous, because really Venezuela is dead.
It's actually been dead and buried for 25 years.
And so because of this, and she was getting this momentum, I mean, we helped her, you know.
She would go from town to town to town and just thousands of people would show up and, you know, Well, of course, guess who wasn't excited?
Maduro.
And so what do you think he did to try to stop her from getting on the ballot in the first place?
Because he saw the writing on the wall when people were like, this is who we want to lead Venezuela, right?
So, he goes to the Supreme Court, who was hand-picked by him.
Chavistas, Maduro supporters, loyalists.
And so, he goes, hey, how do we get her off the ballot?
And so, they were like, yeah, so for 15 years, Maria Corina cannot be on a ballot for 15 years, right?
And of course, everyone knows that in 15 years, they'll do it again.
So, they'll never allow her to be on the ballot.
I mean, this gives us some insight into why the left here is so desperate to control the court.
Exactly!
The Supreme Court is a barrier to what they want.
But also, to that point, look at how they play this game.
If they don't like the candidate, what do they do?
They try to put them in jail.
Sound familiar?
Yes!
Yes, absolutely.
They try to get them out of the way.
Let's not have to cheat, but let's get them out of the way.
You know, let's do it this way first, and then if all else fails, then we'll cheat.
And it looks like all else did fail, because even this other guy, Urrutia, whom no one really heard of before... Yeah, Gonzalez Urrutia.
He's like Maria Corina's hand-picked surrogate.
Right.
He wins.
Yes, he wins by a lot.
I think, and the way Maria Corina said it, probably by about 70%.
Think of it, 70-30.
Think of it, 70-30.
70-30.
But what happens is that they get rid of the evidence.
And so they cannot tally these voting locations because they get rid of the actual votes.
So they can't compare anything.
So anyway, Maria Corina said that they did, that they were able to get at least 40% and they were able to compare it to what he said.
And it was like way off the charts.
So they got tallies from a certain segment of the population but they couldn't get every area.
So then guess what Maduro does?
So he goes, you know what?
I'm gonna have the Supreme Court audit the election results.
Yeah, right!
The same Supreme Court that got her off the ballot.
So everyone's like, really dude?
Are you kidding me?
I mean, you have to say that this is exactly, I mean, we wouldn't normally go into what's happening in Venezuela if it wasn't so eerily, not only reminiscent, but it points to where we're going.
And these are exactly the fears that ordinary Americans have about what's happening here.
Yeah.
Right?
I mean, when we talked to Laura Trump at the RNC, she's like, everywhere I go, this is the number one thing that people want to talk about.
I mean, it's the question raised by 2000 Mutes.
It's really difficult to undo it.
It is.
And people know that.
And people know it.
And I've witnessed this for 25 years in a country that I love because I was born there, I have family there.
It's very raw for me because every time I see people say, oh yeah, this is it, we're gonna do it.
I know it's not going to happen.
And why should we care here in America?
Because that's always one of those things.
It's like, Debbie, okay, you were born in Venezuela, so you care a lot about Venezuela.
Why should we care about Venezuela?
There's a lot of reasons, and we've talked about them.
The fact that Iran, China, and Russia have a stronghold in Venezuela is one reason why we should care.
Because The foreign policy of that is extremely important for us.
Well, the other reason is that other tyrannical and totalitarian countries have a very different recipe.
So, for example, China has a different recipe.
The Chinese system is not coming to the United States.
We're not going to become like North Korea, where you've got a short guy with really short hair, Kim Jong-un, running the country, and everyone worships him like a saint.
But the Venezuelan model is one that we could see not only here but in many other countries around the world.
So it is in fact a very dangerous and destructive recipe.
The parallels are extremely eerie.
The parallels are obvious and eerie.
When we left off yesterday, Booker T. Washington was talking about the pernicious influence of the Ku Klux Klan in the South in the latter part of the 19th century.
And then he says, quote, I have referred to this unpleasant part of the history of the South simply for the purpose of calling attention to the great change that has taken place since the days of the Ku Klux.
He says, today there are no such organizations in the South.
And the fact that such ever existed is almost forgotten by both races.
There are few places in the South now where public sentiment would permit such organizations to exist.
Now here we have a very poignant snapshot of history.
A moment when it appeared like the country would be moving in a completely different direction.
in the aftermath of the Civil War.
So, sort of 30 years after the Civil War, 35 years, Booker T is hopeful that there won't be any more Ku Klux Klan, there won't be any more lynchings, there won't be any more of the kind of racial terrorism that you saw in the bitter aftermath, the immediate aftermath of the war.
Now, he turns out to be wrong, but not because there was some spontaneous upsurge in the South, In fact, when the revival of the Klan came in the aftermath of the progressive president, Democrat Woodrow Wilson, showing Birth of a Nation, the movie in the White House, the Klan revival was not limited to the South.
It actually was nationwide.
It happened in the Midwest.
It happened in the West.
So, unfortunately, Booker T. Washington's hope for the South becomes frustrated.
And, of course, he's there to see it, so that this occurs in the second and third decades of the 20th century, and Booker T. Washington recognizes that the hopes that he had when he first published Up From Slavery are dashed.
Booker T, we're now into Chapter 5, and he starts by offering some thoughts about education.
And they're pretty fascinating because they show an emerging difference of opinion between two of the most prominent black figures in the country at the time, Booker T. Washington, and then what will later become his rival, W.E.B.
Du Bois.
Now, Du Bois is a northerner.
He is descended from free blacks.
He's not descended from slaves.
Or at least if he is, these are slaves who obtained their freedom a long time ago.
So he's raised as a free black man in New England.
And he becomes the first black man, the first African-American to get a PhD at Harvard.
This is a very pompous individual.
He's lived in Europe.
He is somebody who at one time in his life goes around with a monocle.
So he's a man with airs.
He's typically seen in photographs in like a three-piece suit.
So think about it.
This is a guy who could not be more far removed from ordinary people.
And certainly from ordinary black people in the South, where the majority of black people live.
And it's a sharp contrast, his life, with that of Booker T. Washington.
W.E.B.
Du Bois is the type of guy who speaks with words like thee and thou.
One of his famous lines goes something like, I stand with Shakespeare and I wince not.
Now, you'd never hear Booker T. Washington talk that way.
In fact, even when you read Up from Slavery, there's a certain type of almost ancient simplicity to the language in which very powerful things are said, but they're not said using ornate or big words.
There's very little rhetorical embellishment.
And it's not because Booker T. Washington at this time doesn't know any big words.
He is very well educated.
He would be fully capable of speaking like Du Bois if he had wanted to.
But he doesn't want to.
And he has a reason for it.
It's not just a matter of being of politic or that he wants to relate to ordinary people.
He has a philosophy of education behind the way that he talks and writes.
And we're going to get an early glimpse into what that is.
So, he says, during the whole of the Reconstruction period, two ideas were constantly agitating the minds of the colored people, or at least the minds of a large part of the race.
One was the desire to hold office, and the other was the craze for Greek and Latin learning.
Now, there's a slight element of humor to all this.
Booker T. Washington downplays the humor.
He gives it to us sort of, I won't say Laurel and Hardy style, but he's Laurel.
In other words, he gives it, like, he plays the straight man here, and it's rhetorically very effective.
First of all, he has a couple of caveats or qualifications.
He goes, look, it could not have been expected that a people who had spent generations in slavery could at first form any proper conception of what an education meant.
So he goes, OK, what I'm about to say, people have a kind of a wrong, even a certain fanciful or silly idea of education.
He goes, it's to be expected.
We started out in slavery.
We were not allowed to learn except, you know, to learn the kind of work that we're expected to do on the plantation.
So he goes, if we have some wild ideas or some of our people had some crazy ideas, that is to be expected.
He says, the ambition to secure an education was both praiseworthy and encouraging.
Absolutely right.
And then he says, the idea, however, was too prevalent that as soon as one secured a little education, in some unexplainable way he would be free from most of the hardships of the world and at any rate could live without manual labor.
So, what Booker T. Washington is saying here is that, look, it is true that the aspiration to education is a good thing.
It is also true that education can help you to escape from a life of drudgery.
In other words, you can learn to do tasks that involve skills, that involve knowledge, and that is not the same thing, for example, as standing with, you know, a heavy object and breaking bricks or cutting trees.
That's true.
But, says Booker T. Washington, for a lot of these slaves, they're like, you know, slavery was a lot of work.
This is the good thing about me getting an education.
I don't have to work.
Or at least I don't have to do any manual work at all.
Not even skilled manual work.
Because remember, slaves did skilled manual work.
There were slaves who were masons, who were carpenters, and so on, and developed agricultural techniques.
And so...
Booker T. Washington now wants to go against this idea that somehow because you have an education, you don't have to do anything with your arms and legs.
You are now going to be sitting in a chair for the rest of your life.
He recognizes that this is not really the way to go.
He goes on to say, there was a further feeling that a knowledge, however little, of the Greek and Latin languages would make one a very superior human being, something bordering almost on the supernatural.
So what he's getting at here is that you got some blacks who pick up some knowledge And by the way, this is in no way limited to blacks.
A few phrases of Latin and Greek and suddenly they're like, I have seceded from the black race.
I am now a superior human being.
Every other black man has to bow down to me.
Guess why?
Because je ne sais quoi.
Because I know a little Latin.
I know a little French.
I know a little Greek.
And Booker T is like, This is wrong-headed.
Not that there is no place.
At no time does Booker T. says, don't learn foreign languages.
His point is that learn foreign languages in their place and in their time.
First things first.
Get a basic education.
Put it to use.
Make sure you can earn a livelihood.
Make sure that you have a way, as he himself puts it later in the book, figure out a way that you can live in a two-story house.
Let that be your aspiration.
Now, once you've achieved those aspirations, then, by all means, go to Paris.
Start reading the poetry of the metaphysics, including John Donne.
So, in no way is Booker T. Washington against liberal education, but he is against liberal education for a guy who doesn't have an education at all.
And this is where ultimately he will clash with W.E.B.
Du Bois.
Du Bois will caricature Booker T. Washington as if to say, Booker T. Washington wants to keep the blacks in ignorance.
He wants to keep them doing just menial tasks.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Booker T. Washington is basically saying you have to walk before you learn to run.
And this is something that Du Bois cannot even get his head around.
Why?
Because he takes so much for granted.
Booker T. Washington had to learn to walk and then to run.
Du Bois, in a sense, came from a family.
He got a very good education at the outset.
It never crossed his mind to dig a ditch in a field.
He never did a day of manual labor, really, in his life.
And so he looks with condescension and derision on Booker T. Washington, a condescension that is utterly misplaced.
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