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May 16, 2024 - Dinesh D'Souza
48:26
THE RAT Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep834
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Coming up, I'll consider new information about Michael Cohen that might prove fatal for Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg's case.
I'll project what we're in for with the Trump-Biden debates.
And actor Kevin Sorbo joins me.
He's going to talk about his new film with Cuba Gooding Jr.
about a group of death row inmates who accept Christ.
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This is the Dinesh D'Souza Show.
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The prosecution in Manhattan DA Albin Bragg's case against Donald Trump has made its case such as it is.
And as I said yesterday, this is not a...
Very impressive case.
It is, to use a phrase, it's an underwhelming case because pretty much all that they have proved is that there were payments made to Stormy Daniels and she signed an NDA. But none of that is illegal.
So moving from that...
To crimes and not just misdemeanors but felonies is really not that easy to do.
Seems like the prosecution has been doing a lot of obfuscating.
There's a lot of paperwork going through each email.
The idea is to sort of convince the jury there's a lot there.
It's kind of like taking one aspect of a murder case and saying things like, you know, the guy took out an insurance policy and then you spend four days going over the provisions of that policy.
Well, yeah, but that alone doesn't mean that he killed the other guy.
It might supply a potential motive to And even that's a maybe because the motive is rebuttable.
You could say, well, listen, I didn't need the money.
I'm already a multimillionaire.
Why would I care about a $200,000 insurance policy when I've got a lot more in the bank right now?
So the prosecutors in this case with Trump, they don't have a whole lot.
Pretty much the only guy who is trying to connect the dots is It's the disgraced former attorney Michael Cohen.
So it's Cohen who says that not only were the payments made to Stormy Daniels, but they were deliberately misclassified as legal.
Rather than as something else, hush money or some other, I don't even know what the category would be.
They were listed as legal and that Trump knew that this misclassification was occurring.
Now, it's not clear to me how Trump knew, but basically Michael Cohen's like, yeah, he knew.
He obviously knew.
I'm here to tell you that he knew.
But even that's not enough, because even if Trump knew, this would be nothing more than a misdemeanor.
It's a misclassification of a business record, whoop-de-doo.
The way to get to a felony has got to be that not only did Trump know, but that Trump's intention is In misclassifying the document, and by the way, Trump didn't do it himself.
It was done by accounting people.
They are the ones who made the classification.
Trump's intention was to break federal campaign finance law.
This is where things really get crazy and where you have flights of the imagination going on.
But nevertheless, it's a very interesting question.
What to do now that they've made this, let's call it a half case.
Not a real case, but half a case.
Given that there could be and is, I think, a left-leaning jury, you have to take that for granted.
So now what do you do? Well, one possibility is you just go to the judge straight out and you demand a directed verdict.
A directed verdict is this.
Your Honor... Nobody has established any connection between these payments and any intent to create false records or any intent to break federal finance laws.
No one has even shown this.
And therefore, you don't even need to give it to the jury.
There's not a kind of open question of fact.
There's no evidence been adduced or brought forward to even show the connection.
And therefore, the case should be dismissed without even putting on a defense.
I suspect that the Trump people will do this.
They will go for a directed verdict.
But that Juan Merchant, the judge, because he too is a left-winger, he too wants to get Trump, he's probably also enjoying his day in the sunlight, will decline.
He will say, no, I'm not going to dismiss the case right now.
And that means it now turns to the defense, and they can bring witnesses.
And one witness that I hope that they will bring, and they have been talking to this witness, and this is a witness that testified before the House, so we actually know what he's going to say, and it's a good witness because it is, you know, just as Michael Cohen is Trump's former attorney, this witness, his name is Robert Costello, is Michael Cohen's former attorney.
And as it turns out, he has relevant and direct knowledge of these facts.
Why? Because Michael Cohen came to him when he had the NDA signed by Stormy Daniels, and he, Michael Cohen, was under investigation, and so he says to Robert Costello, I can't believe they're trying to put me in jail for an NDA. Now,
Robert Costello says, he, as his lawyer, told Michael Cohen, you can't be put in jail for an NDA. NDAs are completely legal.
So whether Trump ordered it, or you signed it, or you negotiated it, it happens all the time to settle a civil claim.
And then the plot kind of thickens.
I'm now quoting Robert Costello.
He says, I then had Cohen explain what his involvement was with the NDA. So, Michael Cohen's lawyer is asking him, well, what's the deal with this NDA? Cohen said that a lawyer for Stormy Daniels approached him and said Daniels was going to allege that she had sex with Donald Trump unless Trump was willing to buy her silence with a non-disclosure agreement.
So now we kind of know a little bit of how this went down.
Lawyer for Stormy Daniels comes to lawyer for Trump and says, my client is going to say that she had sex with Trump publicly and embarrass him unless he signs an NDA, which is to say, unless he forks over money in exchange for which I will agree to sign an NDA and I will zip my lips and not say anything about the matter.
Cohen decided that while he didn't believe the allegation, he thought the story would be embarrassing for Trump and especially for Melania, and so he decided he would take care of this himself.
Hmm. Now, this is important in two separate regards.
The first, Michael Cohen, who's pretty close to Trump, he's Trump's lawyer, is like, that's BS. That never happened.
So, Michael Cohen doesn't believe the allegation.
It's not as if Michael Cohen goes, oh, show me the photographs.
Oh, wow, yeah, man, it really happened.
None of this. Basically, Michael Cohen says, I don't believe it, but you know what?
This kind of stuff is very embarrassing to deal with.
And especially in public, you just don't want someone making accusations against you.
However crazy.
And so, Michael Cohen decides...
I need to help Trump out here.
And I especially need to help Trump out.
Why? Michael Cohen doesn't say because this is going to hurt Trump running for president.
Not at all. In fact, he says, the story would be embarrassing for Melania.
So in other words... Whatever NDA is being signed, whatever payments are being made, this is to save, this is to create, this is to avoid creating domestic disharmony.
So the reason this is relevant or important is because if that's Trump's motive, then whether or not something happened with Stormy Daniels, all of this is perfectly legal.
If Trump were to say, yeah, I did that, or no, I didn't, but you know what?
I just don't want Melania to get in the middle of this.
This is just embarrassing. I'm going to make a payment.
That is not against the law.
Far from it being a felony, it's not even a misdemeanor.
It's completely legal.
It's distasteful, but legal.
Now, I'm interested in this line.
He decided he would take care of this himself.
And here is where things really get interesting, because Robert Costello says that Michael Cohen...
In a delusional way, believed that he, Michael Cohen, could become either Chief of Staff or Attorney General.
Michael Cohen wanted to be those things.
And so when the Trump team in 2016 went off to DC for the inauguration and the celebrations, this is after Trump wins the election, Michael Cohen's like, well, what happened to me?
I'm being left behind.
It doesn't look like I'm going to be front and center, being considered for a top job.
And so Michael Cohen decided on his own.
This is according to his own lawyer, Robert Costello.
Michael Cohen decided, listen, Let me do a big favor for Trump.
Let me figure this one out.
Let me square away with Stormy Daniels.
Let me get her to sign this NDA. And then when Trump finds out what an amazing job I, Michael Cohen, have done for Trump, He's going to go, we need to have this guy in our administration.
This guy needs to get some elevated post.
So, and the point being that this was Michael Cohen's idea.
This was not Trump's idea.
This would blow the whole case because the prosecutors have got to prove that this was Trump's doing.
Trump was knowledgeable about.
Trump okayed it.
Trump was in on the distortion of the records.
Trump's motive was election interference.
And Robert Costello says he asked Michael Cohen, he goes, where's the money coming from?
Where is this money coming from?
He goes, is Trump providing the money?
And Cohen goes, no.
And then he asks, is it your money?
Is it Michael Cohen's money?
And Michael Cohen goes, no, it's not my money.
I can't take my own money because my own family would find out about it.
I can't possibly do it. I figured out a way to do it.
I'm not going to tell you how I've done it.
And it looks like what had happened was that Michael Cohen, as an attorney, billed Trump for legal expenses and then used those legal expenses without telling Trump, without Trump's knowledge, to square away with Stormy Daniels.
Now, why would he do that? Why would he take money paid to him to do this?
Well, according to Michael Cohen's own lawyer, The answer is because he wanted to do a big favor for Trump.
He had aspirations of his own in the Trump administration.
And so it is, strangely enough, Michael Cohen who should be on trial for all this.
Certainly to have this guy Costello testify, if I was a defense attorney for Trump, I would haul this guy into court right away because...
Talk about offering a completely different version of what the meaning of these events are and coming from not just someone who's credible in and of themselves, unlike, by the way, Michael Cohen, but someone who was Michael Cohen's own hired attorney.
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Trump and Biden are going to be debating.
They're going to be, and I say this with a chuckle because I think we're all a bit surprised.
This is like the, you know, the blind guy is going to take part in a fencing contest.
Wait, what? You don't know what's happening?
It's going to happen. So here we have the retarded guy, the guy that, by the way, and again, this is not just, you know, Dinesh is being sardonic.
Well, I mean, this is coming straight from Robert Hur, the special counsel who did the investigation into Biden.
He goes, this guy's a bumbling, fumbling guy without poor memory.
Well, this guy's stepping in the ring with Trump.
Now, the...
We were joking here in the studio about how is this going to happen?
I mean, is Biden going to have a little earpiece where they're going to feed him the questions in advance?
That's happened before. Is Obama going to be the one who's sitting in his calorama house with the little earpiece himself, the way he talked about...
Or is Biden just going to go out into the ring?
And, well, I mean, for Biden, let's remember, too, the idea of Biden debating is Biden goes out there and just states categorical falsehoods.
I mean, that's his thing.
Most recently, he's been like, when I came to office, inflation was 9%.
percent. We've brought it down. In fact, when Biden came to office, inflation was 1.4%.
So it's a flat out lie. Biden's been called on it more than once, but he keeps saying it. In fact, when KJP, Jean Pierre, the press secretary was asked, she kind of, you know, she tried to sort of, well, what Biden was trying to say was that inflation has been a real problem ever since COVID. But, but this is Biden, he We can expect that in the debate, Biden will just produce falsehoods.
By the way, in the confidence that he won't be called on them, that the media will explain them, provide its own context.
This is what Biden was really getting at.
And, of course, the opposite treatment for Trump.
Now, the question that actually Debbie was raising a moment ago was, like, why would Biden do this?
If you've got a guy who's hampered in this way, forgetful, dementia setting in, senile, why would he want to debate?
I think there's only one answer to that question, and that is that the Biden people...
Have decided that he needs to.
In other words, think of it this way.
If Biden were eight points ahead in the polls, you think he'd be debating Trump?
No. He'd be like, listen, we don't need to do a debate.
Trump's a threat to democracy.
We don't need to debate whether we have a democracy.
So there are all kinds of ways that Biden could get out of it.
But Biden has been the one.
You know, Trump makes a generic, I'll debate him anywhere, anytime.
But Biden now comes in with all kinds of specifics.
If you look at his statement, it was like one page, single spaced.
The debate has to be here.
It has to be there. These are the moderators.
This is the format. I can't have an audience.
I need to have it just be one-on-one.
We can't let the third guy in.
No Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
So with Biden, it's a debate with a lot of conditions.
But the surprising thing here is that he's even doing it.
It kind of reminds me about Samuel Johnson on Female Preachers.
Honey, I don't know if you know about this, right?
He's like a female preacher, like a dog standing on its hind legs.
What? He says, you're...
He says...
You're not surprised that it's done poorly.
You're surprised it's being done at all.
And so similarly here, you're not surprised that Biden's going to do a poor performance.
You're surprised he's even entering the ring in the first place.
It seems something kind of inappropriate, undignified, a worldwide laughingstock to have Biden even do it.
And all this being said... I do flashback to the first debate between Trump and Biden in 2020, which I think Biden won.
And I say this because I think that Trump was far too irritable, far too impulsive, far too dismissive.
It was almost like Trump was like, you've seen me as president.
Why do I have to even talk to this idiot about things?
He doesn't know anything. He's a fool.
So that contemptuous dismissal doesn't really work, particularly if you have a guy who's like earnestly making his points.
You need to have a well-thought-out strategy.
You need to prepare.
And so I hope that the Trump people aren't Taking this too lightly, I think that Trump is in a good position to absolutely crush and annihilate Biden, but he needs to anticipate Biden's strategy, including the sort of sympathetic goofball strategy.
Right. I don't really know what's going on, but I'm a decent guy, you know, unlike this guy out here, and I'm not facing 91 criminal charges.
So Trump needs to know what Biden is going to do and how to effectively parry and counter and then strike the intellectual coup de grace.
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This summer, your local movie theater will become a tent revival for proclaiming Jesus.
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Hey, I have Kevin Sorbo coming on next to give us more details on this amazing movie.
Guys, I'm delighted to welcome back to the podcast our friend Kevin Sorbo, actor, director, producer.
You probably know him best from the lead role in Hercules, The Legendary Journeys, which became the most watched TV show in the world.
He's been in over 90 movies and TV shows, God's Not Dead, Soul Surfer, Two and a Half Men, Hawaii Five-0.
And on and on.
He also acted and directed in the Left Behind movie based on Jerry Jenkins' award-winning books.
We're here to talk about his new film, The Firing Squad, where he plays Pastor Lindbrook.
It opens in theaters this August.
You can follow him on x at ksorbs.
And Kevin, welcome.
Thank you for joining me.
Really appreciate it.
This new film looks to be really riveting.
And tell us a little bit about your involvement in the project and also how the idea for doing this film came about.
Well, I will.
I'm a producer on it as well, but the acting thing is still the one I like most to do.
And Tim Che and I, Tim Che directed it.
We've been talking about doing Moody together for such a long time, and finally the timing was right, just because every time he had an offer for me, I was filming something else.
So when I read this script, I said, it's awesome.
I love true stories. It's a story about, it's really, Cooper Gooden Jr.
is in as well, and James Barrington.
James Barrington is really how the story sort of surrounds his character, but my character is the one that earlier in life when he was in Indonesia surfing, he was an American guy, he saw someone flirting with his girlfriend on the beach.
He became enraged. He went and picked a fight with a guy and he ended up killing the guy.
And of course, he got arrested, got the life sentence in Indonesia.
And during his time in prison, over the decades he was in prison, but in those first five years, he found God, and he found Jesus, and he became a pastor.
He went through all the things to get to become a pastor, and he saved many souls, not only inmates, but the guards as well.
And when James Barrington's character comes in near the end of the movie, I mean the end of my character's life because he knew his D-Day was coming up, he asked God basically, let me save one more soul before you take me to heaven.
And it's an incredible story about redemption and hope.
And Dinesh, as you know, I think hope is something the world is just trying to find right now in this crazy world we're living in.
Yeah, no, I think that, I mean, in the past we've talked about films and films that are, that have a kind of subtle or disguised Christian message.
Christianity is not central to the theme, but it somehow creeps in.
And we've talked about how sometimes it's good to do those kinds of films where the Christianity is not heavy-handed, but it's there.
This is a film that is straight out About conversion, right?
Talk about the value of making this kind of a film because in some ways it appears to me not radically different from taking, let's say, what a preacher would do on Sunday in one format and to deliver it in a completely different format.
What are the advantages of the film format over, let's just say, going in for a good old Sunday sermon?
Well, the biggest difference I've always found, you know, talking to other people that I know that attend church, and I ask them about, do you take nonbelievers in with you?
And the reaction is pretty much always the same, because if you're talking to an agnostic or certainly with an atheist, they're like, I don't want to go to church.
There's church people there, because they have this preset idea of what people about church are all about.
But when you go, hey, do you want to go see a movie?
It's a completely different thing because it's an easier thing and it's a more anonymous thing to do as well just to go in a dark theater and watch something like that.
And I actually see, you know, the Sam and our website is Sorbo Studios, sorbostudios.com.
We get emails every day from people saying that, you know, I became a Christian because of your movies.
I get stopped every day with all the traveling I do, people saying the same thing.
So I think it's...
You're right, this is unabashedly a faith-based movie.
The Kendrick Brothers obviously have done very well, you know, Courageous and War Room and things like that.
I don't always want to do movies like that.
I like to do movies like Blindside, which the message is there, but everybody can see it.
People, non-believers, go, that was a great sports movie, but the message still got in there.
But this movie, I think, is coming out at the right time and the right place with what's happening in our world.
And Tim Shea, his hopes is, you know, I just did a series of commercials for it, and his hopes is that people will take their friends to the movies.
And he wants to save a million souls with this movie, and he's reaching for the stars with it, for sure.
But I saw it happen with movies like What If and God's Not Dead and Let There Be Light with people as well.
So... The independent market is really kicking up because Hollywood is shooting themselves in the foot.
You saw what Disney did. They lost $1.4 billion last year with their woke stuff, and people are trying to pay attention to that and say, I want movies that I can take my family to without all this garbage.
It seems to me that if you go to church on a Sunday and you hear a sermon, you have to accept the authority of the Bible, let's say, because the pastor is going to be referring to that.
Or even if the pastor is doing a certain type of Christian apologetics, you have to agree with the argument.
But if you see a story put to film...
It is the equivalent of a testimony kind of rendered into full life.
And it's true regardless of whether you decide to go along with it.
There's no debating that this is what actually happened.
As you said, the movie is based on a true story.
You're simply recreating it for the big screen.
So it seems that there is a peculiar power in that.
And then just the power of movies, where you not only are able to hear a message the way you would in a church, but you're able to see and experience and feel and, in a sense, put yourself in another man's shoes.
Yeah, I think it brings out a conversation after the movie with the people that see it together because, you know, look, I like a good Avengers movie too and a Thor movie, but really 50% of those movies are just special effects now.
It's like a great rollercoaster ride.
You don't walk out really caring about the characters because, you know, I played Hercules.
None of us can really be Hercules or Thor or Spider-Man in real life, but these are real life situations with real people.
And if you go to FiringSquadFilm.com, that's FiringSquadFilm.com, not only can you see a trailer for it, but you'll see all these testimonials.
Because I've been crossing the country with Tim Che, our director, and having screenings at different cities and different markets, big markets, small markets.
And as soon as people come out, we're recording people and their testimonials.
And it's pretty powerful when people are coming out with this movie.
And I just think this is...
I think this is a big hit.
I think people are going to love this movie, and hopefully churches will jump on board.
I do a lot of speaking just like you do, and one of the things I do when I do a lot of my pro-life speaking or Christian education speaking, because there's always pastors about, I remind them they work for God, not for government, because you know as well as I do all the woke insanity happening in our churches as well.
Yeah, absolutely. I'll get to that in a moment.
But one of the things that you do in this film, which is kind of unusual, is that toward the end, you come on screen, and you make something that happens, for example, in a church on an Easter Sunday.
Kind of a call to Jesus, right?
A call to kind of come up the aisle, if you will, and accept Christ.
Is that something that has gone over just fine with the theaters?
No problem to do it that way?
I've actually never seen something quite like that in the theater.
How are you pulling that off?
Well, that was Tim's idea.
We'll see what happens when the movie's open August 2nd.
But I thought it was interesting.
You know, we did it on God's Not Dead in a way.
When we have Willie Robertson at the end of the movie, he says, everybody, because people stay in their seats for God's Not Dead through their credits and everything.
I went to a couple screenings stuck in the back and there were standing ovations for a movie, which I've never seen before.
And Willie Robertson comes out and says, text everyone you know God's Not Dead.
Just text it out there.
And that was an amazing, that was brilliant by PureFlix to do that because that was free advertising for them.
And we don't have that kind of budget.
What if they didn't have that? Gods are dead.
I mean, we don't have the kind of budget that these big budget Hollywood movies, you know, they'll shoot a $300 million movie, $100 million to advertise it.
If we're able to raise $1 or $2 million DPR, that's a win for us.
But we can't get big unless people talk about these things.
So we need word of mouth out there.
So we're hoping with the end of the movie that my doing that on an altar call, you're right, that's pretty much what it is, that we see some movement within that, and hopefully it's a positive one.
Kevin, you've been commenting and tweeting about this kind of woke infiltration of the churches.
It's been going on for some time, the idea that the churches are too harsh, they're too judgmental.
And we see this not just in the Protestant church, but there's an equivalent movement in the Catholic church and The idea was that Pope Francis is going to be the softy, unlike Benedict and John Paul II who were kind of wielding the scepter.
What do you think is going on here?
Is it that the church is the last sort of megaphone that hasn't been taken over by the left?
Is it that the church is the last bastion of holdout against this kind of infiltration and corruption of our culture, and that's why the church is now the target?
Well, I love that church is getting targeted.
I guess that means they're effective.
But as I said, I think a lot of church is still falling in more line with the government than anything.
It certainly happened with COVID. I mean, it was amazing to me the amount of people that our church goers were so silent during COVID when our government said the church is not essential.
The schools are not essential.
But the mom and pop grocery store that's been around for 60 years on that corner lot that people go all the time is not essential.
But what's essential is liquor stores, strip clubs, Target and Costco, the big companies like that.
You can't tell me there wasn't money being exchanged that way as well.
I mean, it's crazy.
I mean, this country is fond of the Judeo-Christian values.
And you look at the deterioration of it, not only our public education, but just getting worse and worse in our universities.
All this insanity going on with these students saying, you know, queers for Hamas and free Palestine and all this stuff.
I mean, to me, it's like, okay, we had the Revolutionary War with the Civil War.
I think this is the third biggest thing that's ever really sort of taken over the world right now, and it's just crazy what we're doing.
And this march towards...
I think socialism has got a firm hold on America right now, but this march to Marxism and communism is crazy to me.
One of my tweets that got about 800,000 replies, I said all those people that were out there protesting, I said, you guys better keep all your tents because you're going to need them after you graduate.
There you go.
Good one. Yeah.
Well, you know, in the Revolutionary War, it was a kind of, there was an easily defined enemy, the British, the outsiders, the bad guys.
In the Civil War, you know, slavery.
So there were sort of, but now it seems that, and maybe this is one reason people feel a They're kind of unsure where this is coming from.
They're kind of unsure what's the cutting edge of it.
Is the cutting edge of it like the trans issue?
Is it the race issue?
Is it just socialism, pure and simple?
Is it some kind of cultural Marxism, all of the above?
So it seems like we're facing a threat that is a little more amorphous, a little more difficult situation.
What would you say as we wrap up, what's the most important thing that citizens can have now in being awake and alert and responding to our situation today?
I like the word awake. I want the tigers and the lions to wake up.
The sheep are going to be the sheep.
Government's favorite weapon is fear.
We saw upside down to its totality during the COVID, and people just bent over backwards and just bowed to the government.
I think there's so many atheists in Washington, D.C., They believe in God, but they believe that they're God, and I think that's the biggest problem.
We have to fight back.
You look at what they've done in the education system, you look at what's going on with the control of everybody, the control.
I mean, the money that these people in the office are making, you know, obviously with Wall Street in their back pocket as well, there's so much corruption.
Why do we have to wait 70 plus years to get the Pfizer report on COVID? Why can't we see it now?
Why are they still holding up JFK's records?
Is there this huge fear that if we really find out what's going on behind their closed curtain there during the the the odds I love that that was a great my greatest line about that love and I just pay no attention to the man behind the curtain and that's what they want us to do here and we need to fight back and open up the government because it's crazy you know we need to get rid of term limits we got I mean we got to imply term limits we got to get all these things in there so we got a big election coming up I know every single election I say this is the most important one.
I believe this is finally the most important one.
It's time to stop crying wolf because this is really a crazy time that we're looking at right now.
And for our country to continue, I'm all for a businessman running America, not a politician.
Kevin, to close out, what is the website for people who want to find out more, watch the trailer, sign up for tickets to the firing squad?
Sure. It's firingsquadfilm.com.
Firingsquadfilm.com. Please check it out.
A lot of great information on there.
And, you know, we need your support.
Independent boobies need your support.
Awesome stuff. Thank you very much, Kevin Sorbo.
Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate the time.
I'm getting pretty close to finishing up with my second folkway.
This is the southern Englanders who came from the south of London to Virginia.
They created the culture of the American South.
And says the historian David Hackett Fisher, they were, he calls them the Cavaliers, because that was the name for the English group that supported the king in the English Civil War.
The Royalists were the Cavaliers, and then the Roundheads were the Puritans.
When we use the term cavalier in English, it means kind of easygoing, lackadaisical.
It can even be used kind of negatively.
You know, this is a serious matter.
Don't be so cavalier.
And it's a reference to the fact that the cavaliers were sort of that way.
They were sort of cool.
They took it easy. They didn't really get agitated very easily.
At least not under normal circumstances.
And I said yesterday that while the Puritans talked about improving the time or even redeeming the time.
In other words, time is a precious commodity.
Let's use it better today than we did yesterday.
That's improving the time.
And redeeming the time is, let's use it in a way that would be pleasing to God.
The Southerners, at least the Southerners at the top of the spectrum, the top of the hierarchy, the top of the totem pole, they use the phrase killing time.
And killing time means passing time, letting time go by, not doing a whole lot.
Now, this is actually very important because...
In the American South, killing time was a sign that you had time to kill.
So in other words, that you were someone who had property.
You were somebody who had servants.
Later, a little later, you were somebody who had slaves.
And now you see that...
Obviously, in the South, there were crops.
There were later plantations and cotton.
There's a season for cotton.
So, there is crop time.
Crop time is the time when you got to sow, you got to water, you got to reap, and so on.
You got to store. But the point is that that work...
That crop time was carried out by servants.
And so, it was almost a measure of your status in society as to how much time you had to kill.
The more time you had to kill, kind of the bigger the Lord you were.
Your time was truly your own, and therefore you could kill it at will.
Now, contrast this kind of freedom, the freedom of, I got all the time in the world...
I won't say no time, because slaves did have time.
Slaves were given days off.
by and large Sunday was a day off, at least in the main hours of the day when there was services, church services, and then typically some kind of a banquet or feast for the slaves.
There were other times when slaves were allowed resting time and time, in some cases, to keep some of the fruits of their own labor.
It was not uncommon in the American South for slaves to keep some of what they grew.
Nevertheless, it's simply a definition of slavery to say that you don't own your time.
Somebody else owns you, and therefore all your time belongs to them.
If you have time to kill or just to pass, it is at the whim or by the permission, by the leave of your owner.
So this idea of punctuality, getting it done, labor, all of this became associated with the servant class and with slaves.
And so the Southern aristocrats developed a kind of attitude that you shouldn't work hard because if you work hard, you're kind of like a servant.
So, kind of the opposite of the work ethic.
It's the lack of a work ethic.
And in fact, Thomas Jefferson, on more than one occasion, basically said, this is one of the unnoticed degrading aspects of slavery.
It's bad for the slave, of course, in ways that are obvious.
But it's also bad for the slave owner, because it breeds this kind of indolence and carelessness and unproductivity.
Now, let's turn to the idea of honor that was very big in the American South and still is.
If there's one place in our society today where honor is important and where, by the way, slights to honor are always taken seriously, it is by and large in the American South.
It's the inheritance from the Cavaliers.
And this goes back again to England.
I mean, if you're riding on a horse and some guy comes up to you and pokes your horse, you're insulted, you get off your horse, you often unleash violence on that kind of a guy.
And so this notion of a social hierarchy with a code of honor, and the code of honor is especially strong between people of the same level.
It's actually less important for people of different levels.
If a count or an aristocrat in England is going by in his carriage and some peasant shouts out, the count doesn't care.
It's like, that guy's a useless peasant.
Who cares? It's like a dog barking.
But on the other hand, if you are the Earl of Leicester and the Earl of York says something insulting about you or your wife or your family, well, that's when you want to challenge the guy to a duel or draw swords.
And so this is a true attack on your...
Slavery becomes the opposite of that.
A slave has no honor.
Now, why is that? Well, it's partly because when the slave was taken as a slave, he could have died fighting, but he didn't.
He surrendered. He allowed himself to be taken captive.
And that is seen from the very beginning.
And this idea of slavery goes back even in ancient times when slavery wasn't really racial.
It was white guys taking other white guys as slaves.
The slaves by and large in the Roman Empire were not black.
They were essentially captive people taken from all kinds of all parts of Europe that were defeated by the Romans.
And slaves in that sense have no honor.
And for this reason, masters thought, well, I can't really insult my slave.
This guy doesn't have any honor.
Anyway, what's there to insult?
And yet, it's pretty interesting that because of the chivalric cavalier ethic, even in the South, even in the heyday of slavery, We're good to go.
So, but in the South, Southerners and plantation owners generally did not use the word slave.
They would talk about my, these are my people.
These are my helpers.
In some cases, these are my workers.
But not, these are my slaves.
And the idea of the family in the South as it developed, well, it already was, unlike in Puritan New England, where the family was basically the nuclear family.
Sometimes you'd have an elderly mother or a relative, but extended families were not common in Puritan New England, and still aren't.
Whereas in the South, even today, you often have a kind of an enlarged concept of family.
People will talk about their brothers, their cousins.
There's an enlarged sense of community.
And sometimes in the same house, and of course in the days of Southern plantations, it was not uncommon to have 15 or 16 people staying in the main house, and this would include servants.
Later, of course, it would include slaves.
And all of this was not only part of a family, but a very structured family.
Now, the Puritan family was structured, but it was structured kind of under God's ordinance.
So each member of the Puritan family was accountable to God directly.
So, the patriarch of the family is responsible to God for exercising His power in a responsible way.
Then the wife, then the children, who are subordinate, of course, to the mom and to the dad.
But in Virginia, it was much more elaborate.
So, for example...
The master is the head of the family.
The wife is sort of the second head of the family, the queen, if you will, of the plantation.
But then you've got elaborate rankings among the servants.
The butler has a certain status and the people who work indoors, even under slavery, the house slave has a higher status than the field slave.
And then you have overseers who are hired hands, who have been, sometimes they could even be picked out of the slave population, and other times they were outsiders, white guys.
Poor whites who are brought in, hey listen, you run my plantation, you make sure the work gets done, you be out there in the field with the slaves, you don't have to be doing the work yourself, or you can be, but it's your job to make sure that they get it done.
So this is the, in some ways, strange notion of family because normally families are bound by mutual affection.
But here, when you're dealing with masters and servants and obviously with slaves, people who are doing this work, Unwillingly, they have been brought into slavery by captivity.
They are maintained in slavery through captivity.
And yet, in a bizarre twist of phrase, they too are referred, oddly enough, as members of the family.
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